March 31, 2025 • 59 mins
Our TGIF (Thank Goodness It’s Feline) journey continues when the gang hangs out with one of the most interesting men in the world: Nick Bakay, the voice of Salem the cat from Sabrina the Teenage Witch!
Nick takes us through his legendary comedy career, from writing In Living Color to appearing on Seinfeld to creating Paul Blart. And yes, we go deep into the iconic enchanted cat that forced our hosts back in time.
All this, and Danielle got a Dough Dealer, on Pod Meets World!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, I have a sourdough lady. Right, I have a
(00:23):
new sourdough lady. Will you're gonna You're gonna freak out.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
People are jelly on sour dough or just white bread.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well, I yesterday just had white bread. I was in
a real rush. Also, it's so the okay.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Is the lady made of sour dough. I have so
many things. I have so many questions.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I have a sour.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You take a little piece of her finger and you
can make a piece of bread. Like, what is a
sour dough lady?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
She's a woman who makes sour dough and it's divine.
She has a couple of different flavors I to start with,
or a loaf of hot honey, which is got spicy
and honey in the sour dough loaf, and then also
just a plain sourdough loaf. And then she also makes
(01:12):
English muffins. Oh, so I ordered Cranny, a nook and Granny.
I ordered a hot honey, a sour dough and some
English muffins. Every single morning I open my eyeballs and
the first thing I think is I can't wait to
go down and eat some bread.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So I mean, when you say you have does she
give me the starter? Does she deliver it to your house?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
How does this order it? Via my phone? I send
her a text. They go, Hi, I'd like to place
an order for.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I'm a special person.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Do you have to.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Send you I'll tell you. I mean you have to
live locally because she lives near us. She lives in
the San Fernando Valley. She does, yeah, and then she
delivers it on Friday to your door.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Wow, how big business is getting?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well, it's a pretty new business. She's doing it from
her house. She wakes up super early because she has
like a bunch of loaves now she's making. And she
doesn't have like a you know, huge kitchen. She has
just a house kitchen.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And it's is she called the sour Lady?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
No, I just call her that.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
She is a name.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Well no, but we got to give her a business,
a name of something.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I'll tell you. I'll find it right now. Give me
give me a second. But will you have to place
an order? And I know that writer you know all
about making sour dough. If you lived closer and would
deliver it to my house on Friday, you have.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
A sour dough guy, what about what about need for bread?
Her for bread?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
God? I love that so her her. The name of
her bakery is fresh Start Bakery. She's on Instagram at
fresh Start Bakery, Underscore at the end uh In Home
micro micro bakery located in with the Hills. Poor pick
up or local drop off available. Here's some things on
her menu. Her sour dough is classic cheddar, hallapeno, roasted garlet,
(03:08):
hot honey, parmesan, and black pepper English muffins, and then
she also has pastries. I haven't think.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Muffins are cool.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
That's that guy, you know, because a lot of people,
like a lot of bread places have kind of sprung
up in the last couple of years, but I haven't
heard of like a good English muffin.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
That's a great Are not going to try to make
your own English muffins now?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I don't know what's involved.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Just was inspired because we had friends come for the
holidays and one of them brought his own loaf of
sour dough.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
And I was like, oh my god, this.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I haven't done it for years because my wife doesn't
eat sourdough. My son now, I think he'll like sourdough,
but like he used to not like sourdough, so I
like bread and nobody would eat it but me so,
But I.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Think, why doesn't Alex like sourdough.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Likes you know? My son in law introduced me to
the joy of the cheddar holopeno bagel, which I'd always
walked away from.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
It seemed like it was too much going on. Yeah,
and he's like, just try.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
He's like, just try, right, but both acts are delicious.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
It's a thing too.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It was so good.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I want to try that. I want to try that.
That that her holopen you. I want to try that
woman's lapeno loaf.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
It's really good. This is not an ad. I pay
for it directly. She's wonderful. I'm very excited about it
in Woodland Hills. She's in Woodland Hills.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
She's an extra hand because I'd love to go. I've
wanted to learn how to bake and do the pastry like.
I wouldn't charge her. I'd just go and be her.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Soushi does it early early in the morning, so you'd
probably have to be to her house at five am.
I don't know if she'd like to welcome you into
her house to be honest, but ill sure, I'll make
I'll ask, I'll ask.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I'll find out this morning at five am when I
just show her. Just gave her a bunch of business
hopefully so she kind of makes.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
If you live local, that's where you should be getting your.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I can't please send me that Please send me that
link because.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I want there's I know you guys will place an order.
You can place your order today for Fridayso come over.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I'll teach you how to make sour dough brea.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I know. No, Sue makes good bread. She makes good bread.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Oh okay, well.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Okay, well then I'll see you.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
Well, no, she doesn't make sourdough because she doesn't have
a starter over.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
That was the weirdest thing. Writer offered something that you
were saying you wanted to do with someone else, and
then you were like, no, no.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
I doesn't have a sourdough starter.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Writer, Yeah, she doesn't have a friendship. What's okay?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Never mind? Anyway, what does that mean? There's a new
movie coming out called I think it's called Friendship, and
it's about like a grown man Tim Robinson who becomes
obsessed with his new friend Paul Rudd and it is, uh,
you know, it's a funny story about how it kind
of ruins both their lives when Tim Robinson becomes obsessed
with Paul Red and Tim Robins Tim Robbins, No, Tim Robinson.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Robinson, Okay, yeah, Tim Robins. Tim Robbins is the guy
who broke out of Shawshank right right.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Correct, different persons there are. There are totally different people
with those.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, okay, but I did just.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Want does that happen?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Robin's the novelist.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Tony Robbins who is the self help guy a lot
of Robins. Yeah, Robin Gibbons, totally different.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Just save rob or just.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Got a pal? It's this ward a palal.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Come on, come on, Welcome to Pod Meets Robin.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
I'm Danielle Fischel, I'm right strong, and I'm wil Fredell.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
T G.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I f had a handful of iconic faces over the years,
Cory Matthews, Uncle Jesse cousin, Balky, mister Cooper, the Aliens
from Aliens in the family. And yet there was one things,
a furry one that reigned supreme for many, many years.
And it's hilarious that the man who voiced this iconic
feline is known to a majority of the world as
(07:02):
Salem Saberhagen, the talking cat from the long running hit
TV show Sabrina the Teenage Witch, because his resume is
not only wildly impressive outside of that show, at times
it's unbelievable. A one time contributor to the National Lampoon magazine,
he was a young writer on Sabrina who then somehow
became one of its stars. But before that, he was
(07:23):
a writer and guest star on the Iconic in Living Color,
while one of his first ever acting jobs was Somehow Seinfeld.
Then after Sabrina, the hits just somehow kept coming. The
King of Queen's till Death, two and a half Men Mom,
Young Sheldon, Paul Blart, and his newest creation Bookie on Max,
and he somehow finds time to be a sports expert
(07:45):
on ESPN. This guy sure has a lot of somehow's
in his career, and today we want to find out how.
Let's put a face to this renaissance man of Hollywood
who voiced the rascal of a cat that forced us
to time travel back to World War Two. This week
guest is Salem the Cat himself. Nick Backay, Hi, how
(08:06):
you doing I'm great.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It's so good to see you.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Good to see you too.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Thank you so much for joining us. In addition to
reuniting with our Normal Boy Meets World cast and Crewe,
we have been very excited to catch up with other
TGIF legends and it would certainly be hard to remember
the programming block without your contribution. So thank you for
being here with.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Us, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Let's first get into how you got started in writing comedy.
I was hoping you could tell our listeners a little
bit about the National Lampoon magazine, which you were a
contributing editor and has produced some of the biggest names
in the history of comedy. So how did that happen?
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Well, you know, I was a young actor in New
York back in that era, and you know, really really
scratching my way through life. And I knew a guy
who worked there, and they used to see him at
parties and he thought I was funny, and he used
to always say to me, you should try writing for us.
And I grew up reading that magazine. I'm the generation
(09:07):
that graduated from Mad to the Lampoon, and I revered it.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
It wasn't exactly.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
In its heyday, you know, And I'd be stumbling back
down Broadway at three in the morning and I'd look
at it on the newsstand and it was always somebody
with huge jugs on the cover, and I'd be thinking, an,
you know, you're so stupid when you're young. You know,
I'm waiting tables at Ernie's. But I'm like, I don't know,
he's so stupid, you know, But you know, I got
(09:35):
a callback for you know, the Actors Theater of Louisville.
It's so stupid. So I finally said, what am I doing?
And I went and you'd start there by writing fake
letters to the editor, okay, And I started doing that,
and it's the weird thing. It's like I started to
realize the world may not need another twenty three year
(09:58):
old actor like me, who wasn't quite as pretty as
you guys at that point. But if you can write
a joke, it's kind of like being a left handed pitcher.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
There's a need.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
So there was a stunning contrast, and within a very
short amount of time I was a contributing editor. I
met wonderful people. I got to write lots of really
interesting stuff there, and that's what led me to write
for TV because I got out of that with an interesting, strange,
unique portfolio that caught the eye of people when they
(10:30):
were starting what is now Comedy Central. And that's a
whole different story, but it got me my first TV
writing job, and and and then and it was you know,
your life takes little pivot points, and you know, that's
the point when I realized, I think I'm done with
theater because it had never really been interested in me
(10:52):
to begin with. But you know, I thought we had
a relationship.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
It was over. That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So you actually started acting, went into writing, and then
came back to acting.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
You were acting just enough to keep you in writing.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
Yeah, I've always said my acting career I was just
good enough to have my heart broken.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
You know.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
It's like writing is the only thing that's actually let
me have a decent life, you know, But there's always
been great acting stuff along the way.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
You mentioned that it led you into your first television
writing gig, which was what was that.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
It was the original late night talk show on Comedy Central,
which was then the Comedy Channel.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
It was with the.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
Alan Havy, who you may know from mad Men and
a lot of cool things. But he's a great stand
up comedian to this day. And we did a strip
show five shows a week at late night. He was
the host. I was the writer sidekick. We had a
producer and a PA and we had to do five
shows a week.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Jeez.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
Yeah, it was great. It was like doing TV in
the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
It was great.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
We had a studio on twenty third Street in New
York and it was sort of collegiate. Everybody there was
young and cutting their teeth and there was no nobody
was jaded. Everybody was so thrilled to be there. And
I met my wife Robin there. I made friendships for
life there. So it was wonderful.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Who were your crew? Like, who were you coming up
with around that time?
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Well, it's interesting at the channel at that time, interesting
people were there, Like that's where John Stewart got it start.
He hosted this show called Short Attention.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Span Theater Theater, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
Which was comedy clips. The Higgins Boys and Gruber who
are still like Steve Higgins, who is you know, produced
SNL for years and is the Jimmy's He's Jimmy. Steve
is one of my best friends. He was my best
man when Robin and I got married Dave Higgins. You
know Eddie Gordetski, who's a writer of great renown. There's
(12:50):
so many people. Scott Carter was the producer of my
shows who went on to produce Politically Incorrect forever. It
was a hotbed of complete unn owns, and many many
people from there. I'm no, I'm forgetting tons of them
went on to do very interesting things. But at that point,
it was this little fledgling cable network, very poor distribution,
(13:13):
but they were fighting to get it on and there
was a rival one called HA and it's back when
Viacom and Time Warner were at battle for the soul
of cable TV.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I got.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
I remember how it was the beta max of the
TV channels.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
So we and they were just like, if you guys,
don't burn down the studio, keep doing what you're doing.
We're trying to convert cable operators in Nebraska, and I
was alan sidekick, and I did a show called sports
Monster there as well, and that's what cut Dennis Miller's eye.
So when Dennis left SNL to do his original talk
show in la he hired me to write on it
(13:51):
and be his sidekick.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
And that's what got me to La Geez.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Was that was the first one? The first show that
Dennis Miller did. Was it the one where Robin Williams
was his first guest? Was that the was that the
first one?
Speaker 6 (14:03):
You know, I was there. I should remember. I know
I met you briefly in Tampa. Yeah, I know, you
remember things better about me.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I do, I do, I'll do.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
I think it. I think it was Tom Hanks.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Was second show then that that he had It were
they pulled out.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
The heavyweights to try and get us jump started, and
we lasted a little less than a year. It was
interesting timing. We concurred with Johnny's retirement and then Leno
came in and it was a hole. It was fascinating though.
It was fascinating experience. Dennis was with Bernie Berlstein and
Brad Gray and it was interesting. You know, I came
(14:44):
in the deep end, but it was good. It's a good,
good way to come to l A And I'm grateful
to Dennis and Allan those guys hiring me and shifting
me away from the pretensions of my youth really led
me to who I am.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
What kind of were you hoping to do?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Were you hoping to be like a dramatic.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
He wasn't hoping to do anything.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
You say, the pretensions of my youth?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
What does that mean? Like me was like plays and yeah, no,
I was going to be Hamlet, Pally.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
I trained. I'm a classically trained actor. I would get
gigs like I would get you know, Shakespeare gigs in Syracuse.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
It's like it was just brutal, but like theater for
me is like that old girlfriend that you liked a
lot better than she liked you, and she would bang
people in front of you.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
It was just went off the rails.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
I don't really know the I don't understand the lanes
of this podcast.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
There are not goodly.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
It was like the minute I realized I'm just a
I am meant to be an anarchist in this comedy mode,
it was you know, we all we got plans, we
all have plans, but you know the world's going to
say to you, nice, try it's over here, and if
you're smart you listen.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yes, yes, Wow. So how did so then you moved
to la How did one of your first acting gigs
end up being on Seinfeld? What was that like?
Speaker 6 (16:14):
Well, you know, at that point, I was still really
going hard at trying to be on camera. And you know,
I had auditioned for that show like two or three
times and it always went well, and I knew they
liked me. And then I got that part as a
phone I got a phone call, you know, I just
got it. And I had done a lot of stuff
(16:35):
and that was on their radar from you know, I
think Larry and Jerry knew I was well known in
the stand up community, you know, and so I was
a proven entity from a lot of things I've been doing.
And so then I just got the call and they said,
you know, you got cast. And that was funny because
when I started in my relationship with my wife, she said,
(16:55):
you know, what's it going to be like, I've done
leadship with an actor when you have to kiss somebody,
And I was like, I love you so much. That
has not that's not a big.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Part of my career.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I mean you for thinking about that, but don't worry.
Speaker 6 (17:11):
You're fine, We're safe, you know. And then I had
to kiss late, so I said, good news, bad news.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
I got the rent.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
But it's still one of my favorite episodes ever. It's
an episode called the Smelly Car.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh oh, I love that episode.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
It is great.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
I can do all your lines. My wife and I
still to this day are one of our ongoing jokes.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Wi hug each other and pull back and go. It
still smells like we still we so we do.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
You're quoted often in our home just so you know
it's rightful. But yeah, what a what a way to
to jump onto the scene is to do one of
the one of the well known episodes of Seinfeld, which
is which is great.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yeah, that was a great week.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
It was fun and you know, having written a lot
of these things now I'm also looking back on it,
and you know that script did not change a lot
during the week. Well, we read at the table was
really close to what we shot, which was great because
you got to really work the material and you guys
know how often things change overnight and you had new
(18:10):
pages and then in between takes, right, I mean, I
do go. It's such an elusive process and the rewriting
never ends. But that one we got to really lock
it down.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's so great. So then where does one of your
next early jobs in Living Color, which is like one
of the greatest shows of all time, Where does that
job fall and what was that experience like that must
have been pretty incredible. They were firing on all cylinders
by the time you joined.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
It was wonderful and it came to my rescue. It was,
I think, really my first main job after the Miller
Show went down, as I recall, and I remember, it
was one of those gigs that came in and I
remember how little there was in the checking account, and
I was, you know, it was one of those like,
oh good, I have to tell Robin.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Oh I got the job. I don't have to tell
her we had eight cents.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
And that's a less fire.
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Stein brought me in on that unless had worked a
lot at the Lampoon, Although I didn't really know him
that well. That relationship really was essential to me getting
hired there. And that was an incredible year I ended up,
you know, and that was at the point where you know,
writing was starting to really eclipse my camera stuff and
(19:30):
then you know, but it's always happened. I ended up
doing more than I thought I would, and I did
the dirty dozen sketches and things like that. Things fell
into my lap there that I didn't plan on, and
it was a great year.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Did you get to work with Jim Carrey I did.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
He was doing The Mask and ace Ventura that year. Oh, Jim,
I know, it was like he was turning into a phenomena.
So Jim was not around a lot, but when he
was around had He and I shared a writing office,
and so I had intense doses when he and when
(20:05):
we would do it. But I don't think there's another kind.
And and we would stockpile sketches. He'd come into town
and we'd shoot as much as we could with him,
and it was great. And I've got to be in
some of them. It's really funny. I'm I'm, I'm, you know,
it's that long ago. I'm digitizing some stuff and throwing
(20:25):
some things on there, and I'm in sketches with him.
He's in some of the dozens. We did one where
he and I were the Menendez brothers and we're dancing
to the Risky Business song with gun with shotguns and
there's none of them. We're like the We're like the
awful white cops in the wake of the riots in jail,
getting you know, introduced to jail in the old classic way,
(20:49):
you know. And and I remember there's another uh. We
wrote a sketch that never made it, But I remember
we were up a long time because then I watched
him at his best and his most obsessive, and we
wrote a really funny sketch about a late night used
car salesman who did his own ads, but he had tourettes,
(21:09):
and I'm you know, everything about it. I'm sure deeply
cancelable now, but watching Jim try and sell you on
a car and having these outbursts in the middle of
it boil, you know, And I think I'm the only
person on earth who actually saw him perform that sketch
in our office, well, we were writing it, and I'll
(21:30):
never get over it.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
It was amazing.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
That show to me was so I'm that guy where
I always liked Future Ama more than The Simpsons, I
always liked In Living Color more than SNL.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
It was just my it was my thing.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
And as amazing as Jim Carrey was and he got
he's so good.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
He's just proven himself time and time again.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
David Allen Greer and Tommy Davidson to me were two
guys to where every time they were on screen, David,
I mean, they're both amazing. With David Allen Greer I
couldn't stop laughing every time this I did anything, And
then when I saw him then an Amazon Woman on
the Moon, which is one of my favorite movies of
all time. He's just that cast was incredible, I mean
so amazing at everything they did. I'm curious, what was
(22:11):
it like working because I know that Keenan Ivory WANs
was really in charge of the show.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Right.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Well, you know, here's the fun fact. He wasn't there.
I was there one year, will and it was when
the Wayans family had essentially recused themselves.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, it was a really strange deal.
Speaker 6 (22:32):
It was the final year, which is really interesting because
they had Jim Carrey under contract, but I think Fox
was like, let's not alienate this guy. But yeah, they
could have gone forth. So it was a The show
was run in sort of a three headed hydra of
Greg Field's, Pan VSA and Laspierstein and they assumed that position.
(22:55):
So I wasn't there. There were no Wayans. I didn't
get to work with Damon, Keenan, anybody you know. So yeah,
I can't fill you in on that, although I do
know a lot. I worked with a lot of the
guys who were there, and a lot of those guys
remain friends of mine, and those and pitch sessions in
that era.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Were legendarily brutal.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
I do know that.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Man, Well, just two years after in Living Color, you
get the job for a little show called Sabrina the
Teenage Witch. How did that job come to you?
Speaker 6 (23:28):
Well, you know, it's interesting, you know, unlike every other
show ever, there was no traditional pilot of Sabrina. They
Paula and Melissa had done this movie for I think Showtime,
and it was single cam and it's a very different animal.
But I think on the premise of that they sold
(23:51):
it to ABC and then they had to do the
half hour version. And while all of that was kind
of percolating, I worked on this very strange, interesting, great
project called the TV Wheel with Joel Hodgson, who you
probably know from Mystery.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Science NST Hell. Yes, Joel was.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
One of the original comedy Channel that was the Lynch
Pinch Show. When we started, that was the one everybody
knew and loved, and he's the man, and he's, you know,
the greatest on every level. And he did this very
interesting project where he built this rotating set like an
old viewfinder and the camera was locked down, and the
(24:33):
set rotated and locked in, and there are all these
weird perspective sets, and little sketches would play and then rotate,
and I wrote on it for a couple of weeks,
and then I'm in sketches in this strange thing was
so I think for HBO ended up running on Comedy Central,
and it was like a lot of interesting people with there.
I know, David Cross and Paul Figue before he became
(24:58):
the Oats, a lot of interesting people involved. And one
of the people who was writing on it was Nell Scovell,
who ended up writing the Sabrina show.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And it was interesting because.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
I felt like Nell and I kind of locked horns
creatively writing there.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I had no idea who she was.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
I just you know, we were philosophically not exactly aligned.
But then when she took over the Sabrina project, my
manager's phone rang and I had just had one of
those kitchen table talks with my wife and it was,
you know, is every year going to be this terrifying
(25:34):
one of those talks? You know, are you always going
to be reaching for another vine? Because I had done
so many things and none of them stuck to the wall,
and I never wanted to write half hours. I was like, oh, no,
you know, but I said, I think, just as a
responsible human being, I got to open my mind to this.
And then the phone rang. I talked to my manager
(25:54):
at the time and I said, I think I got
to open my mind to this, and then the phone rang,
and I got hired to write on the show. I
was already doing a lot of voice work. I was
an angry Beaver already on Nickelodeon. I was doing a
lot of that stuff. So I was writing on the show.
They didn't have a pilot, they were casting it. I
read for the cat a bit of an inside job,
but I got it. And that's how that happened.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (26:18):
Yeah, you know, you know, I've struggled a lot of
good things in life. I've found I have wrestled with
you know. You know, I have these beautiful kids. And
my wife had to read me an ultimatum on that
we adopted these beautiful boys, and you know, I was
Dean Martin man. I was like, we're going out hard
(26:38):
and we're gonna you know, and she just said we
had enough, you know, And I fought and I and
you know, but Robin's always been the architect of all
the smart moves in our life. And and I listened,
and it's been the best thing that ever happened to me.
And I have wrestled a lot of good things, and
I wrestled that one. But you know, I was mister
(26:59):
in New York, mister late night, missed all these crap
and and living and you know, I was like, oh
my god, I'm writing a half hour and I'm on
TGIF and Model and you know, and you know, but
it just goes to show how stupid I am, because
all of a sudden, I'm like, that's I worked with
wonderful writers that they helped me learn how to write
half hours, that bread and butter. I worked with great people.
(27:22):
I got to be on a show that people love
as opposed to these disposable.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Things I'd been doing.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
You know, I'm happy to admit how wrong I was
to be hesitant because it was a beautiful experience.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
How was it learning how to write half hour? Like,
because this was the first time you were coming into yeah,
real storytelling of that, you know, like extended storytelling, because
it everything had been sketches up until then, everything.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Had been sketches in character comedy and that's how I
survived for years.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
You know, I was.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
I was always valuable because I can write in character,
and I can pitch jokes that are in character. They're
not those jokes, they're like, that's great, but it stops
the scene dead. I can if you're playing a character,
I'll give you gold, and it's on story, and it's
on point. What I couldn't do is break story. What
I couldn't do is you know this. I mean, I
(28:16):
didn't run a show until I was in my fifties,
and I felt like it took me every minute to
learn how to do that.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Some people, I.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Guess are born with that gift. I wasn't one of them.
I had to learn slow and hard, but there's a
lot to it. And I also had to learn different
ways of storytelling. I feel like in that era, storytelling
was very plotty, very very much about clever turns. And
I always joked like, back in that era when it
was story breaking, I used to have to burn myself
(28:45):
with cigarettes to stay awake.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
You know. It was like, you know, what are we
going to do with these suitcases?
Speaker 6 (28:50):
And I'd be like, oh, I'd be like, I'm gonna
kilm myself, you know, and I just hated it, and
You'd be there at two in the morning and I'd be.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Like, this is not why I got an showbiz. This
is really not the plan, you know.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
But but then, uh, you know, I've been exposed to
other approaches, and when I started to tract story from
just a sincere place, it got good to me. Jeez.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
So I want to talk a little bit about you
doing the voice. How did you do that then on
tape night? How was what was the process for like
you actually shooting the show and being the voice of Salem.
Speaker 6 (29:39):
Well, we didn't tape night because of all those old
school special effects, you know, and and a live cat
and a deeply unconvincing puppet cat.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I want to know every detail about the animation.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Sorry, oh, no world destroyed.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
A puppeteer was jammed inside that kitchen cabinet's.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
It was, you know. So we didn't do tape night.
But the first four years I was also.
Speaker 6 (30:12):
Writing there and I would go down to set and
be off camera with a boom mic and the script.
Beautiful thing, as you guys know, voiceover you never have
to learn a looney beautiful joy and it's glorious. But
we were in the and there was a puppeteer who
did the voice, and he would watch me like a
piano accompanyist, and we had a great groove going. And
(30:34):
then in the last three seasons I had moved over
and was writing on King of Queen's so then he
would lay down a track and I would come in
and loop it, and so that was different.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
But in the early going, I go down there.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
There was one scene I remember where I think Salem,
you know, had his head jammed in a.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Fish bowl or something.
Speaker 6 (30:53):
So I'm like sitting there with a script and a
boom mic and there's a you know, somebody holding a
fish bowl, a big tank over my head for this.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
You know, it was deeply practical.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Magic Hollywood, the magic of Hollywood.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
You gotta love.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Are you a cat person at all?
Speaker 6 (31:13):
I am a cat person. I've always grew up with
cats when never had dogs. I have two enormous main
coon cats right now, beautiful, and the dogs have worked
their way into the picture too. But yeah, I'm a
cat person at heart, very much.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
So that was easy.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
When did you realize that this was becoming a phenomenon, Like,
at what point did it hit you that like, oh
my gosh, this is mascot forever. Yeah, I'm going to
be this cat for the rest of this episode.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
I think it was a slower reveal for me than
for guys like you, because you're out with your faces.
You guys could go to seven eleven for a pack
of smokes and people would wet their pants. I'm sure,
you know, but I don't look like a cat. Nobody
vibes me that way, you know. I think, you know,
it's pretty anonymous work, but people would hear my voice
(32:06):
because I don't do it.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
It wasn't like I'm dealing one of those nickeloneon boys.
You know.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
It's pretty much me with more sauce on it, you know.
And and you know what it would happen is I
remember going, you know, it's funny because as much as
our shows, I know, you guys know this one. It
owned a generation of kids and girls, in particular Friday nights.
But there was also a generation of girls who were
(32:31):
getting dulled up on Friday to go out and they
loved their TGIF too, right. Yeah, And I remember going
to remember Billy Martin's on Sunset Plaza. Oh it was
it was a really billy Martin. The oldi Achey manager
had one in New York and one in LA and
it was great elite western wear, really good boutique store
right up at Sunset Plaza with all the eurotrash weirdos
(32:53):
and all that.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
But there's like, it's only the cowboy boots.
Speaker 6 (32:56):
Anyway, I go in there and I bought something, and
I put my credit card down, and the and and
I got name recognition on the credit card from the
sales person and she melted down. And that was for me,
that moment where I went, oh, this is getting interesting.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
And when credit card bill that was exactly exactly and
that's the one that pays you.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
It was like a silver one and it was really
cool and that didn't bounce and I wasn't thrown out.
But there were also bad moments so that like, you know,
people would want to tell their young kids, much like
the experience you just had, well that I you know,
it was the cat and the cat wasn't real, and
there'd be a kid who wasn't ready to handle that information,
(33:46):
let alone look at me and associate, you know, and
they go.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
No, he's the cat, Billy's don't. I don't need this.
I don't need it. He really doesn't mean I'm good.
Oh man, Did.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
You know Caroline Ray from the comedy scene before you
worked on that show together?
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Not really.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
I remember she came in on a twenty or third
Street one week. I think she hosted Sasty as we
called Short Spent Theater, and I think I might have
met her fleetingly there, but I didn't.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
I didn't.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
I didn't know anybody over there before that. But as
you know, we got to know each other well.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
Yes, of course, did it change the dynamic on the
set at all, or how you were with the cast
and the writing crew when you left to go right
for King of Queen's but we're still doing the Voice
of the Cat.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
No, Because it was really isolated, you know. Honestly. I
would go in on Friday mornings before my King of
Queen's shoot day or tape night, and it was me
and Jim Hilton, who was our post producer, and we'd
go over to Paramount to a sound stage and we'd
(34:58):
roll it and we'd be done so I could be
at my other job by ten. So I was really isolated,
other than you know, Christmas parties and things here and there,
and I remember going to a party once when it
moved over.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
To the WB.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
Okay, But honestly, you know, and and and you know,
there's the writing gig on these shows is there's no time,
you know, and doing like King Queen's like, you know,
you're you're, you're there is no hiatus, there is no downtime,
and you're there, you're lockdown. So it wasn't like I
was avoiding people. It was that I was in a gulag.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, was there ever any jealousy with the other writers
that you were the voice of the cat?
Speaker 6 (35:46):
No, you know, everybody was thrilled. And it's nice when
you can have the voice in the room.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
That's I was just gonna say.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
I mean, that must be so great when you're writing
or pitching lines, actually have the voice there with You's
got to be incredible.
Speaker 6 (35:57):
Yeah, I'm sure there are scenarios where that would be
the case, but that that first the staff that first
four years was wonderful and really into it. And the
other thing is that you know, that character was a
great get out of jail free card for the writers
on so many levels. You know, you want exposition, tell
it to the there's.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
A cat can do it.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Yeah, well, you know that just got easy.
Speaker 6 (36:22):
And also you know it's that old like showbiz thing,
like you know, puppets just get away with more ye.
So you know, if you had a little edge, if
you had a joke, that might not quite you know, right,
give it to the cat. Cat gets away with murders.
So the cat was quite popular with the writers for
writerly reasons.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Oh God's amazing.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Not only then did Salem become a star on Friday
Nights with Sabrina, but then you start doing TGIF commercials,
and you even enter the world of Boy Meets World
when you become the connective tissue for all of the
shows who are doing time travel at theisodes? Do you
remember anything specific about that?
Speaker 6 (37:04):
I had to watch a little this morning. I'll be
honest with you. I was like, I remember, I didn't.
I didn't remember the premise that well. I knew that
he was running through the shows and there was a
time element, but I had to brush up on my
Shakespeare a little bit. And you know, again, especially in
(37:24):
those cases, it was very disembodied. I think I recorded
the you know, it's funny. I was watching, like, you know,
when he's in the trash can, at the end of
your episode. I was like, y wow, I you know,
I think that is that paramount. I don't know where
that is, but you know, it was fascinating. I love
to seeing you.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Guys in the old stuff.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Though.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
It was great.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
I kept thinking about that original Star Trek Forties episode.
It was like, you guys really did something cool with it.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Oh man, it's not one of our favorites.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
That's why I told me everything.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, well, there were there were other eras people got
to go back to that. You know, we got we
had war.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
Let's go to the other tunnels of World War two
where all the comedy takes place.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Sure, there was a seventies and we now got World
War two.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Okay, true, Okay, you're right, I forgot. We got the
swing in the sixties.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
We were told we got to pick last our show,
so we literally got what was left.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Yeah, we had.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
What was left was the nineteen forties.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
By the way, speaking of forties, neither of them understood
your Star Trek forties reference.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
I got it.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
It was great.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
They you just blew right by bye bye.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Yeah, that's that's going back aways it is.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
It's not as good as a piece of the action
where they're the uh, the actual gangsters.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
But it's still great.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Was there a for talk of a Salem spin off,
like a you know, an Alf thing. Alf had that
holiday special?
Speaker 6 (38:58):
Nothing serious, No, you know, it's it's interesting. I think
there there was I think a little tension over the
character's popularity. You know, it was always an interesting gig.
I was very grateful for it, and it was nothing
but good for me. And you know, we used to
get two year pickups. You know, it's just you know,
there's nothing, nothing to complain about. But it was always
(39:22):
interesting because you know, the show was produced by a
wing of Viacom at the time that was particularly ruthless
and mercenary. And I always knew, you know, I better
mind my p's and q's here because they'll get Billy
West in here in a minute, you know.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
They yeah, they'll do something.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
They'll get you know, they ca the show's launched. They
could they could have you know, a pig fart my voice. Now,
they don't care. They are not about quality. Sole I
had to, you know, pick my battles.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Did they know it wasn't there at some point, I
don't know if there was talk of or they actually did.
Wasn't there an animated series or some sort that happened?
Speaker 6 (40:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, that was the movies, video games, an animated show.
Speaker 6 (40:07):
There was tons of stuff, you know, looking back on it, No,
they got glue out of the hoofs of that stuff,
you know. And I did the animated series too, and
that was surreal because I'd done a lot, done a
lot of animated and that one I never got a script.
It was they had the whole thing. It was like
they're like sixties whatever, eight episodes. They were all written.
(40:33):
I mean, this thing was done so on the cheap,
and I would just get these sessions where they would
give me wild lines. I would go there for three
hours and just do wild lines with no context. And
yet I knew the character enough that I was like.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Ye, Blazer, confusing careful.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
I wouldn't if I were it just you know, I
knew all the lines almost. It's like handicapping football without
knowing that teams. Oh it's a divisional home game, I'll
take the plus three. I don't even know who's playing.
It's that kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
I would do like forty lines and then.
Speaker 6 (41:09):
The director would go, oh, oh you're angry. Here I
go oh okay. You know, I wouldn't know what or
who would I just go, well, careful, all right, moving on,
you know, we bang that whole thing out, surreal.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
Yeah, stuff, I mean, just just say words, just say words.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Yeah, I mean exactly.
Speaker 6 (41:29):
And I watched them and you know, not the world's great,
it's cartoon, but my character makes sense. And that is
just as baffling as anything to me. It's like this,
you know, this thinking and this acting. It's highly overrated.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
You were also on The Simpsons as Salem.
Speaker 6 (41:48):
Yes, yeah, that was in a brief moment where there
was some scene where they're at the Smithsonian Institute and
I can't remember what Simpson care aracter knocks over a
domino effect display of things that were on TV shows
that aren't supposed to talk, and you know, I can't
(42:09):
know what that's Salem because there's a Salem doll as
one of them, and I am like, hey, you know,
that's the whole thing, you know, but it's like the
robot from Lost in Space and Salem and something else.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
It's like things that I are supposed to talk.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
My gosh, Well, we have forced you to focus on
very specific family shows. But as we have mentioned, You've
had a wildly successful career in Hollywood as a true
(42:46):
renaissance man. You went from Sabrina to writing and producing
King of Queen's Till Death two and a half Men, Mom,
Young Sheldon. You also like appeared in almost all of them.
So you've consistently partnered with TV Dge and Chuck Lorie,
most recently on a show you created with him, Bookie
on Max, and you never gave up voice acting, most
(43:08):
notably Norbert and Angry Beavers. How many of these people
that you work with now and over the years have
known you were also Salem the Cat all of them.
Speaker 6 (43:19):
It comes out eventually, you know, it's very interesting. I
actually it's funny. I went down to I'm working right now.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Thank you for plugging Bookie by the way, that I want.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
To talk about it.
Speaker 6 (43:32):
Yeah, I went down the hall. There's a woman who
works in our building who worked in PR for years,
and I said, I have to pick your brain from
my wife about this Baldoni situation. And we were talking
and like that got her inside scoop and there are
(43:54):
two younger women who work with her. She came up
to me later and said, you know, I told them
and there's a meltdown.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
So you know, it's like you know, it happens. I
don't think about identity. You can't. I'll tell you I failed.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
I think I failed this country a little bit because
I always said, you know, my voice has a subliminal effect.
I should have run for office because people would have
gone it's persuasive.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
And I don't know why. I don't agree with him
on anything.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
I don't know why about.
Speaker 6 (44:29):
My soul.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
You're angry, You're angry, You're angry.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
There's an answer.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
No, You're gonna have to come back at some point
because I'm dying to know what the PR person's take
was on the whole Belton.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Talk about that, brought it up right before before came out,
and I'm talking about it.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, we'll talk about it off the record. I want
you to talk to us about Bookie on Max I.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
I'm thrilled to it's We just rolled out the final
episode of season two stars Sebastian Maniscalco, one of my
favorites the most people are aware of, and he's out
on the road right now playing all the years. I
call them hockey rinks and Omar Dorsey, but an amazing cast.
You know Vanessa Forlido Horre Garcia, Andrea Anders and Rob Cordray.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
It's, you know, the kind of thing I've always wanted
to write.
Speaker 6 (45:30):
You know, a lot of this job is I always say,
you know, if you're on a show, it's a little
bit like you have to be tofu. You got to
absorb the flavor and make it work. And I love
doing that. But this is kind of if I had
been left to my own devices, what I would have
come up with. And it's about a bookie in La
and people who don't know gambling on sports is still
(45:53):
illegal here, which is one of the rare places in
America that's true. And it's about this guy in his
part partner sort of struggling to get over in sort
of crime gray light area and they have complicated families
and they're just trying to get over and there's this
looming specter of what's going to happen. Like Jorge plays
(46:16):
a guy who used to be a very successful weed
dealer and now is driving a lift car when he
meets them and they hire him. You know, it's just it,
and I think there's something relatable because I think all
of us look, you know, as a writer. I just
was on strike for a long time with the fear
of AI. If you know, a viacom in Paramount had
access to AI when I was doing the cat, they
(46:37):
probably would have bounced me after two years because they
would have been able.
Speaker 4 (46:40):
To you know what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what
line of work you're in.
Speaker 6 (46:44):
You wake up one morning, there's an app, there's an algorithm,
there's something that might make you obsolete. So this is
but it's also it's a big it's a big, funny
show with lots of delicious violence. I highly recommend. I
think I'm very.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Proud of it.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Well, you've dropped quite a few references. People may have
been able to pick up on it at this point.
But you were also a sports expert. You've written for
ESPN and the NFL, and you're an actual sports center commentator.
Where do you find time for this? How do you
keep up?
Speaker 4 (47:19):
You know, I no longer do.
Speaker 6 (47:21):
Once children entered my life, show running that fell a
little bit by the wayside, although they still get me
in certain fantasy magazines for the expert polls, which you
know makes me catnip to the ladies. But you know,
when I was that's right. Wait until you see my
(47:43):
wide receiver rankings. It's all over. That's my closer question.
What are you drinking? And what do you think about?
Speaker 4 (47:52):
All right?
Speaker 6 (47:55):
But when I would like I said, back in New York,
I did this show Channel, I did the late night show,
but we also did a show called Sports Monster that
was a parody of Sports Center, and it caught the
eye of ESPN at the time, and also Keith Oberman,
believing me a man who was at that point in
(48:16):
time on the road. He was working in la as
an anchor, but he was on the road to becoming
sort of the uber Sports Center anchor with Dan Patrick.
And when they launched ESPN two, Keith and John Walsch,
who they were really my mentors over there, they brought
(48:38):
me in to do stuff and I used to do
a department there a lot called the Tail the Tape,
and I did a book for Hyperion that collected the
ones I did over the years and some other ones.
It was basically taking the tail the tape boxing thing
of like who's got the advantage, reach height, weigh all
this stuff, but doing absurdist categories. We could do one
right now on Lively Baldoni. So it's an absurdist breakdown
(49:03):
and you declare a winner at the end. And it
was really good, and I would do a very clip
driven so if you're watching Sports Center, you didn't hate
my guts for just talking, you know. And through that,
I started to do a ton of stuff on ESPN.
I worked the Draft, I used to sit in for
Jim Rome on Talk two. I mean it blossomed into
this thing, and it was the thing that when I
(49:24):
started to write a lot on half hours, it was
sort of my sandist sanity pressure valve. I still got
to go write and perform this stuff that I had
control over, and I got to put this sort of funny, satirical,
op ed voice out there, and I was very opinionated
on the world of sports, and ultimately it led to
(49:46):
the most popular thing I did. My wife, Robin and
I did a segment on Sports Center about NFL bad beats.
I mean, Ben Pelt's doing it all the time now,
but I was the original bad beats guys on Sports Center,
where I would show the game footage and say, if
you had Carolina minus three, here's where a.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
Kicker destroyed your dreams.
Speaker 6 (50:05):
And Robin and I were sort of the sketch element
where I was the degenerate and she was my wife,
and it was wildly popular and the NFL eventually shut
us down when their deal was up. They had a
show on at the time called Playmakers that was set
in a mythical NFL where guys are like smoking crack
at act and when the game deal was up with
(50:29):
the NFL, the commissioner said, look, you can get games back,
but you're canceling Playmakers, and that the kai gambling segment's out.
But for four years before that, and now of course
everybody's you know, the ESPN has a gambling app, the
NFL has an official gambling partner. It's hilarious now, but
you know, back then it was very edgy stuff. But
(50:51):
we were the only thing on Sports Center where it's like,
if you bet this game, watch our segment Monday and
if you get if you've got a bad beat at
the end end of the game, I'm there.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Now, are you? Are you a Bills fan? Is that
what I see the helmet of that?
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, that's the real reason he doesn't talk sports.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
I'm sorry, sorry, no, it's not easy. Now, you know
how tough.
Speaker 5 (51:14):
I am it's getting it'll be it's getting easier these
last few years.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It's getting easier.
Speaker 4 (51:19):
You know.
Speaker 6 (51:20):
I've been around this planet a while, and I always
say being a Buffalo sports fan is like being the
hero in a film noir.
Speaker 4 (51:30):
You know, it's it's really exciting in act too. It's
great fighting people and you're getting laid. It's amazing, but
it doesn't end well for you.
Speaker 5 (51:39):
Oh yeah, I guess you could the same thing, say
the same thing about being a Buffalo Bills kicker. So
it's kind of the same life, Isn't it Not easy?
Speaker 1 (51:48):
I have to ask you about Paul Blart because I
think our listeners would be very bummed if I don't
mention it at all. Did you where did that idea
come from? Did you first meet him on King of Queens?
Is that where You're relationship with Kevin started?
Speaker 6 (52:01):
That's where I met him, and we worked there for
years together and we developed a really beautiful bond and
a great comedic relationship. And you know that grew out
of he had done really well in Hitch. Remember he
was just great, And yeah, he was sort of poised
at that point, and the idea was to do something
(52:22):
to sort of before that momentum evaporated and we sat
down and we were throwing things around. And I actually
worked as a security guard in Buffalo. You know, I
had lots of great jobs. They still help me write
things to this day. And I spent And the way
(52:42):
you made money on that job was you did your
regular gig, and then you got time and a half
if you worked nights and weekends and those gigs. I
was always paired with other security guards, and you'd be
like all night, I'm you know, like in the Hall
of Records downtown with some crazy security guard and or all.
I was all over the world with these guys, and
(53:03):
they were all many of these guys took the job
very seriously, and so I developed a profile and and
so Kevin and I started talking and I said, you know,
but and Kevin's bread and butter is sincerity, and so
we just started talking and we got into this. And
I have to say, Kevin's the one who said I
(53:24):
should be on one of those you know vehicles, and
because he's he's just funny, we did it. There's a
king Queen's with a whole tag is just Kevin screwing
up on a forklift it's the funniest thing. He's funny physically,
he's funny on vehicles.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
We knew this.
Speaker 6 (53:39):
Put him on a golf cart, put him on a forklift.
It's gold and uh. And we just quickly arrived at okay,
it's a dreamer, delusional mall cop and let's just make
it die hard on them all, you know. And and
we sold that fast. We wrote that fast, and it
was but we did not expect it to be as
(54:02):
popular as it was. That was really kind of a
deeply exciting moment, that opening weekend.
Speaker 4 (54:08):
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Well, finally, before I let you go, looking back now
at specifically Sabrina the Teenage Witch TGAF Friday Nights, a
job you could have never seen coming. It is obviously
an iconic character for an entire generation and now, thanks
to streaming, for generations to come. What are your emotions
(54:30):
or thoughts when you look back at young Nick and
you think about those opportunities and you voicing Salem so
early in your career.
Speaker 6 (54:40):
You know, it's really interesting, you know, you start out
with this career dream and you just you know, my
original dream was, man, I just don't want to work
a square job, you know, It's like, you know, if
I get an equity card, you start in those small
increments and in the milestones change on you.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
So much of.
Speaker 6 (55:01):
It was just I'd love to not have to spend
as much of my energy doing things I don't care about,
and that fruition is the best part always. But you know,
and you know, it's funny. I met you guys down
at that convention in Tampa. I don't have I don't
(55:22):
get to go to those things. That's the only time
I ever got to. And that was really interesting for
me because that was my opportunity to see that the
show has this. I mean, I've done so many into things,
but you know, look, I'm so proud of Bookie and
I loved every minute of doing it, but Sabrina is
(55:42):
the thing that this lasting impact. You guys see this
all the time.
Speaker 4 (55:46):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (55:46):
When I met people who love the show and then
they're introducing it to their kids, and the and the
way they express their appreciation for it, and you see
it manifest it that way, and you really, well, you know,
I actually did something.
Speaker 4 (56:01):
With legs that's a whole other level.
Speaker 6 (56:03):
I never expected that and to come full circle, you know,
it's the thing that I didn't expect it to be,
you know that the one I went in going okay,
you know, yeah, right, you know you're you're never going
to get it right when you try to predict your outcomes,
So try things right, try them, because this one's been
(56:25):
just beautiful.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Well, Nick, thank you so much for coming and spending
so much time talking to us. A pleasure to talk
to you. You've had such an interesting, fascinating career. It's
great to great to hear you reminiscent it all, So
thank you. Thanks for having me check out Booky on Max. Yeah,
where else can we find you? Where else can we
see you? That's on Max? Bookie? What else you know?
Speaker 4 (56:45):
I'm right now. We're shooting.
Speaker 6 (56:47):
I got a show coming up on Netflix. It's a
half hour with the comedian Leanne Morgan and you guys
will like this. It's an old school multi came with
an audience.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
Oh thank god.
Speaker 6 (56:58):
We're just shooting I think our seventh or eighth episode
next week. So we're back in the old uh, back
in the belly of the beast. And it's been really
fun and she's been delightful. It's on Netflix, so you
know it'll take them three years to translate it into
you know, every language under the sun. But it's coming
at you in and it's really fun.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
Great.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
Thank you wonderful.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
Well, thank you again for being here with us. Nick.
We'll look forward to seeing you next time.
Speaker 4 (57:24):
You guys are blast. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Thank you bye.
Speaker 5 (57:30):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
I still do want to know what that PR person
said about the Baldoni.
Speaker 3 (57:34):
I'm the same way.
Speaker 5 (57:35):
He's also one of those guys where I feel like
he and I speak the same language. Oh yeah, guys
like you meet somebody and you're like, it'll be like
writer meeting another professor.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
So we picked up on that right and I just
stayed pretty quiet.
Speaker 3 (57:46):
We speak the same language.
Speaker 5 (57:47):
I know this guy, okay, yeah yeah, just the old
school kind of comedy and the really random references.
Speaker 3 (57:52):
Yeah, love love for sure.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
He's so interesting, so many interesting careers, and it's funny
that how much what he said at the very beginning
of the episode reminded me of what Rusty says. It's like,
you can bang your head against door A, but eventually,
if you know, DOORB opens and you don't walk through it,
like yeah, you know, it's it's just it's.
Speaker 5 (58:09):
Funny you say that he said a couple things that
reminded me of Rusty. The other thing Rusty used to
always say to me was I knew when I was
coming up, I just never wanted to wear a suit
to work.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
Right, He's like, I.
Speaker 5 (58:18):
Just knew he would always say that to me. He's like,
I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just
knew I didn't want to wear a suit to work.
And you got that same kind of vibe from Nick
where it was just like, no, I don't.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Know exactly what it is. Yeah, yeah, right, Yeah, it's
like I just don't want to wear a suit to work,
So the same kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah. Well, thank you all for joining us for this
episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow
us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send
us your emails pod meets World Show at gmail dot com.
And we've got March.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
I still don't believe Salem was a puppet.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
March pod meets Worldshow dot com writer, send us out.
Speaker 4 (58:48):
We love you all, pod dismissed.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast producer and hosted
by Danielle Fischl Wilfordell and Ryder Straw executive producers Jensen
Karp and Amy Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo,
producer and editor, Tara Subasch, producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and
Boy Meets World Superman Easton Allen. Our theme song is
by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at
(59:12):
Podmets World Show, or email us at Podmeats Worldshow at
gmail dot com
Yeah, I have a sourdough lady. Right, I have a
(00:23):
new sourdough lady. Will you're gonna You're gonna freak out.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
People are jelly on sour dough or just white bread.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well, I yesterday just had white bread. I was in
a real rush. Also, it's so the okay.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Is the lady made of sour dough. I have so
many things. I have so many questions.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I have a sour.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You take a little piece of her finger and you
can make a piece of bread. Like, what is a
sour dough lady?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
She's a woman who makes sour dough and it's divine.
She has a couple of different flavors I to start with,
or a loaf of hot honey, which is got spicy
and honey in the sour dough loaf, and then also
just a plain sourdough loaf. And then she also makes
(01:12):
English muffins. Oh, so I ordered Cranny, a nook and Granny.
I ordered a hot honey, a sour dough and some
English muffins. Every single morning I open my eyeballs and
the first thing I think is I can't wait to
go down and eat some bread.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So I mean, when you say you have does she
give me the starter? Does she deliver it to your house?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
How does this order it? Via my phone? I send
her a text. They go, Hi, I'd like to place
an order for.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I'm a special person.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Do you have to.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Send you I'll tell you. I mean you have to
live locally because she lives near us. She lives in
the San Fernando Valley. She does, yeah, and then she
delivers it on Friday to your door.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Wow, how big business is getting?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well, it's a pretty new business. She's doing it from
her house. She wakes up super early because she has
like a bunch of loaves now she's making. And she
doesn't have like a you know, huge kitchen. She has
just a house kitchen.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And it's is she called the sour Lady?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
No, I just call her that.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
She is a name.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Well no, but we got to give her a business,
a name of something.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I'll tell you. I'll find it right now. Give me
give me a second. But will you have to place
an order? And I know that writer you know all
about making sour dough. If you lived closer and would
deliver it to my house on Friday, you have.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
A sour dough guy, what about what about need for bread?
Her for bread?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
God? I love that so her her. The name of
her bakery is fresh Start Bakery. She's on Instagram at
fresh Start Bakery, Underscore at the end uh In Home
micro micro bakery located in with the Hills. Poor pick
up or local drop off available. Here's some things on
her menu. Her sour dough is classic cheddar, hallapeno, roasted garlet,
(03:08):
hot honey, parmesan, and black pepper English muffins, and then
she also has pastries. I haven't think.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Muffins are cool.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
That's that guy, you know, because a lot of people,
like a lot of bread places have kind of sprung
up in the last couple of years, but I haven't
heard of like a good English muffin.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
That's a great Are not going to try to make
your own English muffins now?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I don't know what's involved.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Just was inspired because we had friends come for the
holidays and one of them brought his own loaf of
sour dough.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
And I was like, oh my god, this.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I haven't done it for years because my wife doesn't
eat sourdough. My son now, I think he'll like sourdough,
but like he used to not like sourdough, so I
like bread and nobody would eat it but me so,
But I.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Think, why doesn't Alex like sourdough.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Likes you know? My son in law introduced me to
the joy of the cheddar holopeno bagel, which I'd always
walked away from.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
It seemed like it was too much going on. Yeah,
and he's like, just try.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
He's like, just try, right, but both acts are delicious.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
It's a thing too.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It was so good.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I want to try that. I want to try that.
That that her holopen you. I want to try that
woman's lapeno loaf.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
It's really good. This is not an ad. I pay
for it directly. She's wonderful. I'm very excited about it
in Woodland Hills. She's in Woodland Hills.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
She's an extra hand because I'd love to go. I've
wanted to learn how to bake and do the pastry like.
I wouldn't charge her. I'd just go and be her.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Soushi does it early early in the morning, so you'd
probably have to be to her house at five am.
I don't know if she'd like to welcome you into
her house to be honest, but ill sure, I'll make
I'll ask, I'll ask.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I'll find out this morning at five am when I
just show her. Just gave her a bunch of business
hopefully so she kind of makes.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
If you live local, that's where you should be getting your.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I can't please send me that Please send me that
link because.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I want there's I know you guys will place an order.
You can place your order today for Fridayso come over.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I'll teach you how to make sour dough brea.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I know. No, Sue makes good bread. She makes good bread.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Oh okay, well.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Okay, well then I'll see you.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
Well, no, she doesn't make sourdough because she doesn't have
a starter over.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
That was the weirdest thing. Writer offered something that you
were saying you wanted to do with someone else, and
then you were like, no, no.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
I doesn't have a sourdough starter.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Writer, Yeah, she doesn't have a friendship. What's okay?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Never mind? Anyway, what does that mean? There's a new
movie coming out called I think it's called Friendship, and
it's about like a grown man Tim Robinson who becomes
obsessed with his new friend Paul Rudd and it is, uh,
you know, it's a funny story about how it kind
of ruins both their lives when Tim Robinson becomes obsessed
with Paul Red and Tim Robins Tim Robbins, No, Tim Robinson.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Robinson, Okay, yeah, Tim Robins. Tim Robbins is the guy
who broke out of Shawshank right right.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Correct, different persons there are. There are totally different people
with those.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, okay, but I did just.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Want does that happen?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Robin's the novelist.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Tony Robbins who is the self help guy a lot
of Robins. Yeah, Robin Gibbons, totally different.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Just save rob or just.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Got a pal? It's this ward a palal.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Come on, come on, Welcome to Pod Meets Robin.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
I'm Danielle Fischel, I'm right strong, and I'm wil Fredell.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
T G.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I f had a handful of iconic faces over the years,
Cory Matthews, Uncle Jesse cousin, Balky, mister Cooper, the Aliens
from Aliens in the family. And yet there was one things,
a furry one that reigned supreme for many, many years.
And it's hilarious that the man who voiced this iconic
feline is known to a majority of the world as
(07:02):
Salem Saberhagen, the talking cat from the long running hit
TV show Sabrina the Teenage Witch, because his resume is
not only wildly impressive outside of that show, at times
it's unbelievable. A one time contributor to the National Lampoon magazine,
he was a young writer on Sabrina who then somehow
became one of its stars. But before that, he was
(07:23):
a writer and guest star on the Iconic in Living Color,
while one of his first ever acting jobs was Somehow Seinfeld.
Then after Sabrina, the hits just somehow kept coming. The
King of Queen's till Death, two and a half Men Mom,
Young Sheldon, Paul Blart, and his newest creation Bookie on Max,
and he somehow finds time to be a sports expert
(07:45):
on ESPN. This guy sure has a lot of somehow's
in his career, and today we want to find out how.
Let's put a face to this renaissance man of Hollywood
who voiced the rascal of a cat that forced us
to time travel back to World War Two. This week
guest is Salem the Cat himself. Nick Backay, Hi, how
(08:06):
you doing I'm great.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It's so good to see you.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Good to see you too.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Thank you so much for joining us. In addition to
reuniting with our Normal Boy Meets World cast and Crewe,
we have been very excited to catch up with other
TGIF legends and it would certainly be hard to remember
the programming block without your contribution. So thank you for
being here with.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Us, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Let's first get into how you got started in writing comedy.
I was hoping you could tell our listeners a little
bit about the National Lampoon magazine, which you were a
contributing editor and has produced some of the biggest names
in the history of comedy. So how did that happen?
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Well, you know, I was a young actor in New
York back in that era, and you know, really really
scratching my way through life. And I knew a guy
who worked there, and they used to see him at
parties and he thought I was funny, and he used
to always say to me, you should try writing for us.
And I grew up reading that magazine. I'm the generation
(09:07):
that graduated from Mad to the Lampoon, and I revered it.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
It wasn't exactly.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
In its heyday, you know, And I'd be stumbling back
down Broadway at three in the morning and I'd look
at it on the newsstand and it was always somebody
with huge jugs on the cover, and I'd be thinking, an,
you know, you're so stupid when you're young. You know,
I'm waiting tables at Ernie's. But I'm like, I don't know,
he's so stupid, you know, But you know, I got
(09:35):
a callback for you know, the Actors Theater of Louisville.
It's so stupid. So I finally said, what am I doing?
And I went and you'd start there by writing fake
letters to the editor, okay, And I started doing that,
and it's the weird thing. It's like I started to
realize the world may not need another twenty three year
(09:58):
old actor like me, who wasn't quite as pretty as
you guys at that point. But if you can write
a joke, it's kind of like being a left handed pitcher.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
There's a need.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
So there was a stunning contrast, and within a very
short amount of time I was a contributing editor. I
met wonderful people. I got to write lots of really
interesting stuff there, and that's what led me to write
for TV because I got out of that with an interesting, strange,
unique portfolio that caught the eye of people when they
(10:30):
were starting what is now Comedy Central. And that's a
whole different story, but it got me my first TV
writing job, and and and then and it was you know,
your life takes little pivot points, and you know, that's
the point when I realized, I think I'm done with
theater because it had never really been interested in me
(10:52):
to begin with. But you know, I thought we had
a relationship.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
It was over. That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So you actually started acting, went into writing, and then
came back to acting.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
You were acting just enough to keep you in writing.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
Yeah, I've always said my acting career I was just
good enough to have my heart broken.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
You know.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
It's like writing is the only thing that's actually let
me have a decent life, you know, But there's always
been great acting stuff along the way.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
You mentioned that it led you into your first television
writing gig, which was what was that.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
It was the original late night talk show on Comedy Central,
which was then the Comedy Channel.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
It was with the.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
Alan Havy, who you may know from mad Men and
a lot of cool things. But he's a great stand
up comedian to this day. And we did a strip
show five shows a week at late night. He was
the host. I was the writer sidekick. We had a
producer and a PA and we had to do five
shows a week.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Jeez.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
Yeah, it was great. It was like doing TV in
the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
It was great.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
We had a studio on twenty third Street in New
York and it was sort of collegiate. Everybody there was
young and cutting their teeth and there was no nobody
was jaded. Everybody was so thrilled to be there. And
I met my wife Robin there. I made friendships for
life there. So it was wonderful.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Who were your crew? Like, who were you coming up
with around that time?
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Well, it's interesting at the channel at that time, interesting
people were there, Like that's where John Stewart got it start.
He hosted this show called Short Attention.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Span Theater Theater, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
Which was comedy clips. The Higgins Boys and Gruber who
are still like Steve Higgins, who is you know, produced
SNL for years and is the Jimmy's He's Jimmy. Steve
is one of my best friends. He was my best
man when Robin and I got married Dave Higgins. You
know Eddie Gordetski, who's a writer of great renown. There's
(12:50):
so many people. Scott Carter was the producer of my
shows who went on to produce Politically Incorrect forever. It
was a hotbed of complete unn owns, and many many
people from there. I'm no, I'm forgetting tons of them
went on to do very interesting things. But at that point,
it was this little fledgling cable network, very poor distribution,
(13:13):
but they were fighting to get it on and there
was a rival one called HA and it's back when
Viacom and Time Warner were at battle for the soul
of cable TV.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I got.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
I remember how it was the beta max of the
TV channels.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
So we and they were just like, if you guys,
don't burn down the studio, keep doing what you're doing.
We're trying to convert cable operators in Nebraska, and I
was alan sidekick, and I did a show called sports
Monster there as well, and that's what cut Dennis Miller's eye.
So when Dennis left SNL to do his original talk
show in la he hired me to write on it
(13:51):
and be his sidekick.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
And that's what got me to La Geez.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Was that was the first one? The first show that
Dennis Miller did. Was it the one where Robin Williams
was his first guest? Was that the was that the
first one?
Speaker 6 (14:03):
You know, I was there. I should remember. I know
I met you briefly in Tampa. Yeah, I know, you
remember things better about me.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I do, I do, I'll do.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
I think it. I think it was Tom Hanks.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Was second show then that that he had It were
they pulled out.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
The heavyweights to try and get us jump started, and
we lasted a little less than a year. It was
interesting timing. We concurred with Johnny's retirement and then Leno
came in and it was a hole. It was fascinating though.
It was fascinating experience. Dennis was with Bernie Berlstein and
Brad Gray and it was interesting. You know, I came
(14:44):
in the deep end, but it was good. It's a good,
good way to come to l A And I'm grateful
to Dennis and Allan those guys hiring me and shifting
me away from the pretensions of my youth really led
me to who I am.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
What kind of were you hoping to do?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Were you hoping to be like a dramatic.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
He wasn't hoping to do anything.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
You say, the pretensions of my youth?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
What does that mean? Like me was like plays and yeah, no,
I was going to be Hamlet, Pally.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
I trained. I'm a classically trained actor. I would get
gigs like I would get you know, Shakespeare gigs in Syracuse.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
It's like it was just brutal, but like theater for
me is like that old girlfriend that you liked a
lot better than she liked you, and she would bang
people in front of you.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
It was just went off the rails.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
I don't really know the I don't understand the lanes
of this podcast.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
There are not goodly.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
It was like the minute I realized I'm just a
I am meant to be an anarchist in this comedy mode,
it was you know, we all we got plans, we
all have plans, but you know the world's going to
say to you, nice, try it's over here, and if
you're smart you listen.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yes, yes, Wow. So how did so then you moved
to la How did one of your first acting gigs
end up being on Seinfeld? What was that like?
Speaker 6 (16:14):
Well, you know, at that point, I was still really
going hard at trying to be on camera. And you know,
I had auditioned for that show like two or three
times and it always went well, and I knew they
liked me. And then I got that part as a
phone I got a phone call, you know, I just
got it. And I had done a lot of stuff
(16:35):
and that was on their radar from you know, I
think Larry and Jerry knew I was well known in
the stand up community, you know, and so I was
a proven entity from a lot of things I've been doing.
And so then I just got the call and they said,
you know, you got cast. And that was funny because
when I started in my relationship with my wife, she said,
(16:55):
you know, what's it going to be like, I've done
leadship with an actor when you have to kiss somebody,
And I was like, I love you so much. That
has not that's not a big.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Part of my career.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I mean you for thinking about that, but don't worry.
Speaker 6 (17:11):
You're fine, We're safe, you know. And then I had
to kiss late, so I said, good news, bad news.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
I got the rent.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
But it's still one of my favorite episodes ever. It's
an episode called the Smelly Car.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh oh, I love that episode.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
It is great.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
I can do all your lines. My wife and I
still to this day are one of our ongoing jokes.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Wi hug each other and pull back and go. It
still smells like we still we so we do.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
You're quoted often in our home just so you know
it's rightful. But yeah, what a what a way to
to jump onto the scene is to do one of
the one of the well known episodes of Seinfeld, which
is which is great.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yeah, that was a great week.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
It was fun and you know, having written a lot
of these things now I'm also looking back on it,
and you know that script did not change a lot
during the week. Well, we read at the table was
really close to what we shot, which was great because
you got to really work the material and you guys
know how often things change overnight and you had new
(18:10):
pages and then in between takes, right, I mean, I
do go. It's such an elusive process and the rewriting
never ends. But that one we got to really lock
it down.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's so great. So then where does one of your
next early jobs in Living Color, which is like one
of the greatest shows of all time, Where does that
job fall and what was that experience like that must
have been pretty incredible. They were firing on all cylinders
by the time you joined.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
It was wonderful and it came to my rescue. It was,
I think, really my first main job after the Miller
Show went down, as I recall, and I remember, it
was one of those gigs that came in and I
remember how little there was in the checking account, and
I was, you know, it was one of those like,
oh good, I have to tell Robin.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Oh I got the job. I don't have to tell
her we had eight cents.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
And that's a less fire.
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Stein brought me in on that unless had worked a
lot at the Lampoon, Although I didn't really know him
that well. That relationship really was essential to me getting
hired there. And that was an incredible year I ended up,
you know, and that was at the point where you know,
writing was starting to really eclipse my camera stuff and
(19:30):
then you know, but it's always happened. I ended up
doing more than I thought I would, and I did
the dirty dozen sketches and things like that. Things fell
into my lap there that I didn't plan on, and
it was a great year.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Did you get to work with Jim Carrey I did.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
He was doing The Mask and ace Ventura that year. Oh, Jim,
I know, it was like he was turning into a phenomena.
So Jim was not around a lot, but when he
was around had He and I shared a writing office,
and so I had intense doses when he and when
(20:05):
we would do it. But I don't think there's another kind.
And and we would stockpile sketches. He'd come into town
and we'd shoot as much as we could with him,
and it was great. And I've got to be in
some of them. It's really funny. I'm I'm, I'm, you know,
it's that long ago. I'm digitizing some stuff and throwing
(20:25):
some things on there, and I'm in sketches with him.
He's in some of the dozens. We did one where
he and I were the Menendez brothers and we're dancing
to the Risky Business song with gun with shotguns and
there's none of them. We're like the We're like the
awful white cops in the wake of the riots in jail,
getting you know, introduced to jail in the old classic way,
(20:49):
you know. And and I remember there's another uh. We
wrote a sketch that never made it, But I remember
we were up a long time because then I watched
him at his best and his most obsessive, and we
wrote a really funny sketch about a late night used
car salesman who did his own ads, but he had tourettes,
(21:09):
and I'm you know, everything about it. I'm sure deeply
cancelable now, but watching Jim try and sell you on
a car and having these outbursts in the middle of
it boil, you know, And I think I'm the only
person on earth who actually saw him perform that sketch
in our office, well, we were writing it, and I'll
(21:30):
never get over it.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
It was amazing.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
That show to me was so I'm that guy where
I always liked Future Ama more than The Simpsons, I
always liked In Living Color more than SNL.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
It was just my it was my thing.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
And as amazing as Jim Carrey was and he got
he's so good.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
He's just proven himself time and time again.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
David Allen Greer and Tommy Davidson to me were two
guys to where every time they were on screen, David,
I mean, they're both amazing. With David Allen Greer I
couldn't stop laughing every time this I did anything, And
then when I saw him then an Amazon Woman on
the Moon, which is one of my favorite movies of
all time. He's just that cast was incredible, I mean
so amazing at everything they did. I'm curious, what was
(22:11):
it like working because I know that Keenan Ivory WANs
was really in charge of the show.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Right.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Well, you know, here's the fun fact. He wasn't there.
I was there one year, will and it was when
the Wayans family had essentially recused themselves.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, it was a really strange deal.
Speaker 6 (22:32):
It was the final year, which is really interesting because
they had Jim Carrey under contract, but I think Fox
was like, let's not alienate this guy. But yeah, they
could have gone forth. So it was a The show
was run in sort of a three headed hydra of
Greg Field's, Pan VSA and Laspierstein and they assumed that position.
(22:55):
So I wasn't there. There were no Wayans. I didn't
get to work with Damon, Keenan, anybody you know. So yeah,
I can't fill you in on that, although I do
know a lot. I worked with a lot of the
guys who were there, and a lot of those guys
remain friends of mine, and those and pitch sessions in
that era.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Were legendarily brutal.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
I do know that.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Man, Well, just two years after in Living Color, you
get the job for a little show called Sabrina the
Teenage Witch. How did that job come to you?
Speaker 6 (23:28):
Well, you know, it's interesting, you know, unlike every other
show ever, there was no traditional pilot of Sabrina. They
Paula and Melissa had done this movie for I think Showtime,
and it was single cam and it's a very different animal.
But I think on the premise of that they sold
(23:51):
it to ABC and then they had to do the
half hour version. And while all of that was kind
of percolating, I worked on this very strange, interesting, great
project called the TV Wheel with Joel Hodgson, who you
probably know from Mystery.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Science NST Hell. Yes, Joel was.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
One of the original comedy Channel that was the Lynch
Pinch Show. When we started, that was the one everybody
knew and loved, and he's the man, and he's, you know,
the greatest on every level. And he did this very
interesting project where he built this rotating set like an
old viewfinder and the camera was locked down, and the
(24:33):
set rotated and locked in, and there are all these
weird perspective sets, and little sketches would play and then rotate,
and I wrote on it for a couple of weeks,
and then I'm in sketches in this strange thing was
so I think for HBO ended up running on Comedy Central,
and it was like a lot of interesting people with there.
I know, David Cross and Paul Figue before he became
(24:58):
the Oats, a lot of interesting people involved. And one
of the people who was writing on it was Nell Scovell,
who ended up writing the Sabrina show.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And it was interesting because.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
I felt like Nell and I kind of locked horns
creatively writing there.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I had no idea who she was.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
I just you know, we were philosophically not exactly aligned.
But then when she took over the Sabrina project, my
manager's phone rang and I had just had one of
those kitchen table talks with my wife and it was,
you know, is every year going to be this terrifying
(25:34):
one of those talks? You know, are you always going
to be reaching for another vine? Because I had done
so many things and none of them stuck to the wall,
and I never wanted to write half hours. I was like, oh, no,
you know, but I said, I think, just as a
responsible human being, I got to open my mind to this.
And then the phone rang. I talked to my manager
(25:54):
at the time and I said, I think I got
to open my mind to this, and then the phone rang,
and I got hired to write on the show. I
was already doing a lot of voice work. I was
an angry Beaver already on Nickelodeon. I was doing a
lot of that stuff. So I was writing on the show.
They didn't have a pilot, they were casting it. I
read for the cat a bit of an inside job,
but I got it. And that's how that happened.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (26:18):
Yeah, you know, you know, I've struggled a lot of
good things in life. I've found I have wrestled with
you know. You know, I have these beautiful kids. And
my wife had to read me an ultimatum on that
we adopted these beautiful boys, and you know, I was
Dean Martin man. I was like, we're going out hard
(26:38):
and we're gonna you know, and she just said we
had enough, you know, And I fought and I and
you know, but Robin's always been the architect of all
the smart moves in our life. And and I listened,
and it's been the best thing that ever happened to me.
And I have wrestled a lot of good things, and
I wrestled that one. But you know, I was mister
(26:59):
in New York, mister late night, missed all these crap
and and living and you know, I was like, oh
my god, I'm writing a half hour and I'm on
TGIF and Model and you know, and you know, but
it just goes to show how stupid I am, because
all of a sudden, I'm like, that's I worked with
wonderful writers that they helped me learn how to write
half hours, that bread and butter. I worked with great people.
(27:22):
I got to be on a show that people love
as opposed to these disposable.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Things I'd been doing.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
You know, I'm happy to admit how wrong I was
to be hesitant because it was a beautiful experience.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
How was it learning how to write half hour? Like,
because this was the first time you were coming into yeah,
real storytelling of that, you know, like extended storytelling, because
it everything had been sketches up until then, everything.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Had been sketches in character comedy and that's how I
survived for years.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
You know, I was.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
I was always valuable because I can write in character,
and I can pitch jokes that are in character. They're
not those jokes, they're like, that's great, but it stops
the scene dead. I can if you're playing a character,
I'll give you gold, and it's on story, and it's
on point. What I couldn't do is break story. What
I couldn't do is you know this. I mean, I
(28:16):
didn't run a show until I was in my fifties,
and I felt like it took me every minute to
learn how to do that.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Some people, I.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Guess are born with that gift. I wasn't one of them.
I had to learn slow and hard, but there's a
lot to it. And I also had to learn different
ways of storytelling. I feel like in that era, storytelling
was very plotty, very very much about clever turns. And
I always joked like, back in that era when it
was story breaking, I used to have to burn myself
(28:45):
with cigarettes to stay awake.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
You know. It was like, you know, what are we
going to do with these suitcases?
Speaker 6 (28:50):
And I'd be like, oh, I'd be like, I'm gonna
kilm myself, you know, and I just hated it, and
You'd be there at two in the morning and I'd be.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Like, this is not why I got an showbiz. This
is really not the plan, you know.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
But but then, uh, you know, I've been exposed to
other approaches, and when I started to tract story from
just a sincere place, it got good to me. Jeez.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
So I want to talk a little bit about you
doing the voice. How did you do that then on
tape night? How was what was the process for like
you actually shooting the show and being the voice of Salem.
Speaker 6 (29:39):
Well, we didn't tape night because of all those old
school special effects, you know, and and a live cat
and a deeply unconvincing puppet cat.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I want to know every detail about the animation.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Sorry, oh, no world destroyed.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
A puppeteer was jammed inside that kitchen cabinet's.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
It was, you know. So we didn't do tape night.
But the first four years I was also.
Speaker 6 (30:12):
Writing there and I would go down to set and
be off camera with a boom mic and the script.
Beautiful thing, as you guys know, voiceover you never have
to learn a looney beautiful joy and it's glorious. But
we were in the and there was a puppeteer who
did the voice, and he would watch me like a
piano accompanyist, and we had a great groove going. And
(30:34):
then in the last three seasons I had moved over
and was writing on King of Queen's so then he
would lay down a track and I would come in
and loop it, and so that was different.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
But in the early going, I go down there.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
There was one scene I remember where I think Salem,
you know, had his head jammed in a.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Fish bowl or something.
Speaker 6 (30:53):
So I'm like sitting there with a script and a
boom mic and there's a you know, somebody holding a
fish bowl, a big tank over my head for this.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
You know, it was deeply practical.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Magic Hollywood, the magic of Hollywood.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
You gotta love.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Are you a cat person at all?
Speaker 6 (31:13):
I am a cat person. I've always grew up with
cats when never had dogs. I have two enormous main
coon cats right now, beautiful, and the dogs have worked
their way into the picture too. But yeah, I'm a
cat person at heart, very much.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
So that was easy.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
When did you realize that this was becoming a phenomenon, Like,
at what point did it hit you that like, oh
my gosh, this is mascot forever. Yeah, I'm going to
be this cat for the rest of this episode.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
I think it was a slower reveal for me than
for guys like you, because you're out with your faces.
You guys could go to seven eleven for a pack
of smokes and people would wet their pants. I'm sure,
you know, but I don't look like a cat. Nobody
vibes me that way, you know. I think, you know,
it's pretty anonymous work, but people would hear my voice
(32:06):
because I don't do it.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
It wasn't like I'm dealing one of those nickeloneon boys.
You know.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
It's pretty much me with more sauce on it, you know.
And and you know what it would happen is I
remember going, you know, it's funny because as much as
our shows, I know, you guys know this one. It
owned a generation of kids and girls, in particular Friday nights.
But there was also a generation of girls who were
(32:31):
getting dulled up on Friday to go out and they
loved their TGIF too, right. Yeah, And I remember going
to remember Billy Martin's on Sunset Plaza. Oh it was
it was a really billy Martin. The oldi Achey manager
had one in New York and one in LA and
it was great elite western wear, really good boutique store
right up at Sunset Plaza with all the eurotrash weirdos
(32:53):
and all that.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
But there's like, it's only the cowboy boots.
Speaker 6 (32:56):
Anyway, I go in there and I bought something, and
I put my credit card down, and the and and
I got name recognition on the credit card from the
sales person and she melted down. And that was for me,
that moment where I went, oh, this is getting interesting.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
And when credit card bill that was exactly exactly and
that's the one that pays you.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
It was like a silver one and it was really
cool and that didn't bounce and I wasn't thrown out.
But there were also bad moments so that like, you know,
people would want to tell their young kids, much like
the experience you just had, well that I you know,
it was the cat and the cat wasn't real, and
there'd be a kid who wasn't ready to handle that information,
(33:46):
let alone look at me and associate, you know, and
they go.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
No, he's the cat, Billy's don't. I don't need this.
I don't need it. He really doesn't mean I'm good.
Oh man, Did.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
You know Caroline Ray from the comedy scene before you
worked on that show together?
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Not really.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
I remember she came in on a twenty or third
Street one week. I think she hosted Sasty as we
called Short Spent Theater, and I think I might have
met her fleetingly there, but I didn't.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
I didn't.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
I didn't know anybody over there before that. But as
you know, we got to know each other well.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
Yes, of course, did it change the dynamic on the
set at all, or how you were with the cast
and the writing crew when you left to go right
for King of Queen's but we're still doing the Voice
of the Cat.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
No, Because it was really isolated, you know. Honestly. I
would go in on Friday mornings before my King of
Queen's shoot day or tape night, and it was me
and Jim Hilton, who was our post producer, and we'd
go over to Paramount to a sound stage and we'd
(34:58):
roll it and we'd be done so I could be
at my other job by ten. So I was really isolated,
other than you know, Christmas parties and things here and there,
and I remember going to a party once when it
moved over.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
To the WB.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
Okay, But honestly, you know, and and and you know,
there's the writing gig on these shows is there's no time,
you know, and doing like King Queen's like, you know,
you're you're, you're there is no hiatus, there is no downtime,
and you're there, you're lockdown. So it wasn't like I
was avoiding people. It was that I was in a gulag.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, was there ever any jealousy with the other writers
that you were the voice of the cat?
Speaker 6 (35:46):
No, you know, everybody was thrilled. And it's nice when
you can have the voice in the room.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
That's I was just gonna say.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
I mean, that must be so great when you're writing
or pitching lines, actually have the voice there with You's
got to be incredible.
Speaker 6 (35:57):
Yeah, I'm sure there are scenarios where that would be
the case, but that that first the staff that first
four years was wonderful and really into it. And the
other thing is that you know, that character was a
great get out of jail free card for the writers
on so many levels. You know, you want exposition, tell
it to the there's.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
A cat can do it.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Yeah, well, you know that just got easy.
Speaker 6 (36:22):
And also you know it's that old like showbiz thing,
like you know, puppets just get away with more ye.
So you know, if you had a little edge, if
you had a joke, that might not quite you know, right,
give it to the cat. Cat gets away with murders.
So the cat was quite popular with the writers for
writerly reasons.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Oh God's amazing.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Not only then did Salem become a star on Friday
Nights with Sabrina, but then you start doing TGIF commercials,
and you even enter the world of Boy Meets World
when you become the connective tissue for all of the
shows who are doing time travel at theisodes? Do you
remember anything specific about that?
Speaker 6 (37:04):
I had to watch a little this morning. I'll be
honest with you. I was like, I remember, I didn't.
I didn't remember the premise that well. I knew that
he was running through the shows and there was a
time element, but I had to brush up on my
Shakespeare a little bit. And you know, again, especially in
(37:24):
those cases, it was very disembodied. I think I recorded
the you know, it's funny. I was watching, like, you know,
when he's in the trash can, at the end of
your episode. I was like, y wow, I you know,
I think that is that paramount. I don't know where
that is, but you know, it was fascinating. I love
to seeing you.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Guys in the old stuff.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Though.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
It was great.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
I kept thinking about that original Star Trek Forties episode.
It was like, you guys really did something cool with it.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Oh man, it's not one of our favorites.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
That's why I told me everything.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, well, there were there were other eras people got
to go back to that. You know, we got we
had war.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
Let's go to the other tunnels of World War two
where all the comedy takes place.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Sure, there was a seventies and we now got World
War two.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Okay, true, Okay, you're right, I forgot. We got the
swing in the sixties.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
We were told we got to pick last our show,
so we literally got what was left.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Yeah, we had.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
What was left was the nineteen forties.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
By the way, speaking of forties, neither of them understood
your Star Trek forties reference.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
I got it.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
It was great.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
They you just blew right by bye bye.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Yeah, that's that's going back aways it is.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
It's not as good as a piece of the action
where they're the uh, the actual gangsters.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
But it's still great.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Was there a for talk of a Salem spin off,
like a you know, an Alf thing. Alf had that
holiday special?
Speaker 6 (38:58):
Nothing serious, No, you know, it's it's interesting. I think
there there was I think a little tension over the
character's popularity. You know, it was always an interesting gig.
I was very grateful for it, and it was nothing
but good for me. And you know, we used to
get two year pickups. You know, it's just you know,
there's nothing, nothing to complain about. But it was always
(39:22):
interesting because you know, the show was produced by a
wing of Viacom at the time that was particularly ruthless
and mercenary. And I always knew, you know, I better
mind my p's and q's here because they'll get Billy
West in here in a minute, you know.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
They yeah, they'll do something.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
They'll get you know, they ca the show's launched. They
could they could have you know, a pig fart my voice. Now,
they don't care. They are not about quality. Sole I
had to, you know, pick my battles.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Did they know it wasn't there at some point, I
don't know if there was talk of or they actually did.
Wasn't there an animated series or some sort that happened?
Speaker 6 (40:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, that was the movies, video games, an animated show.
Speaker 6 (40:07):
There was tons of stuff, you know, looking back on it, No,
they got glue out of the hoofs of that stuff,
you know. And I did the animated series too, and
that was surreal because I'd done a lot, done a
lot of animated and that one I never got a script.
It was they had the whole thing. It was like
they're like sixties whatever, eight episodes. They were all written.
(40:33):
I mean, this thing was done so on the cheap,
and I would just get these sessions where they would
give me wild lines. I would go there for three
hours and just do wild lines with no context. And
yet I knew the character enough that I was like.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Ye, Blazer, confusing careful.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
I wouldn't if I were it just you know, I
knew all the lines almost. It's like handicapping football without
knowing that teams. Oh it's a divisional home game, I'll
take the plus three. I don't even know who's playing.
It's that kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
I would do like forty lines and then.
Speaker 6 (41:09):
The director would go, oh, oh you're angry. Here I
go oh okay. You know, I wouldn't know what or
who would I just go, well, careful, all right, moving on,
you know, we bang that whole thing out, surreal.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
Yeah, stuff, I mean, just just say words, just say words.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Yeah, I mean exactly.
Speaker 6 (41:29):
And I watched them and you know, not the world's great,
it's cartoon, but my character makes sense. And that is
just as baffling as anything to me. It's like this,
you know, this thinking and this acting. It's highly overrated.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
You were also on The Simpsons as Salem.
Speaker 6 (41:48):
Yes, yeah, that was in a brief moment where there
was some scene where they're at the Smithsonian Institute and
I can't remember what Simpson care aracter knocks over a
domino effect display of things that were on TV shows
that aren't supposed to talk, and you know, I can't
(42:09):
know what that's Salem because there's a Salem doll as
one of them, and I am like, hey, you know,
that's the whole thing, you know, but it's like the
robot from Lost in Space and Salem and something else.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
It's like things that I are supposed to talk.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
My gosh, Well, we have forced you to focus on
very specific family shows. But as we have mentioned, You've
had a wildly successful career in Hollywood as a true
(42:46):
renaissance man. You went from Sabrina to writing and producing
King of Queen's Till Death two and a half Men, Mom,
Young Sheldon. You also like appeared in almost all of them.
So you've consistently partnered with TV Dge and Chuck Lorie,
most recently on a show you created with him, Bookie
on Max, and you never gave up voice acting, most
(43:08):
notably Norbert and Angry Beavers. How many of these people
that you work with now and over the years have
known you were also Salem the Cat all of them.
Speaker 6 (43:19):
It comes out eventually, you know, it's very interesting. I
actually it's funny. I went down to I'm working right now.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Thank you for plugging Bookie by the way, that I want.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
To talk about it.
Speaker 6 (43:32):
Yeah, I went down the hall. There's a woman who
works in our building who worked in PR for years,
and I said, I have to pick your brain from
my wife about this Baldoni situation. And we were talking
and like that got her inside scoop and there are
(43:54):
two younger women who work with her. She came up
to me later and said, you know, I told them
and there's a meltdown.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
So you know, it's like you know, it happens. I
don't think about identity. You can't. I'll tell you I failed.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
I think I failed this country a little bit because
I always said, you know, my voice has a subliminal effect.
I should have run for office because people would have
gone it's persuasive.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
And I don't know why. I don't agree with him
on anything.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
I don't know why about.
Speaker 6 (44:29):
My soul.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
You're angry, You're angry, You're angry.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
There's an answer.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
No, You're gonna have to come back at some point
because I'm dying to know what the PR person's take
was on the whole Belton.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Talk about that, brought it up right before before came out,
and I'm talking about it.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, we'll talk about it off the record. I want
you to talk to us about Bookie on Max I.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
I'm thrilled to it's We just rolled out the final
episode of season two stars Sebastian Maniscalco, one of my
favorites the most people are aware of, and he's out
on the road right now playing all the years. I
call them hockey rinks and Omar Dorsey, but an amazing cast.
You know Vanessa Forlido Horre Garcia, Andrea Anders and Rob Cordray.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
It's, you know, the kind of thing I've always wanted
to write.
Speaker 6 (45:30):
You know, a lot of this job is I always say,
you know, if you're on a show, it's a little
bit like you have to be tofu. You got to
absorb the flavor and make it work. And I love
doing that. But this is kind of if I had
been left to my own devices, what I would have
come up with. And it's about a bookie in La
and people who don't know gambling on sports is still
(45:53):
illegal here, which is one of the rare places in
America that's true. And it's about this guy in his
part partner sort of struggling to get over in sort
of crime gray light area and they have complicated families
and they're just trying to get over and there's this
looming specter of what's going to happen. Like Jorge plays
(46:16):
a guy who used to be a very successful weed
dealer and now is driving a lift car when he
meets them and they hire him. You know, it's just it,
and I think there's something relatable because I think all
of us look, you know, as a writer. I just
was on strike for a long time with the fear
of AI. If you know, a viacom in Paramount had
access to AI when I was doing the cat, they
(46:37):
probably would have bounced me after two years because they
would have been able.
Speaker 4 (46:40):
To you know what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what
line of work you're in.
Speaker 6 (46:44):
You wake up one morning, there's an app, there's an algorithm,
there's something that might make you obsolete. So this is
but it's also it's a big it's a big, funny
show with lots of delicious violence. I highly recommend. I
think I'm very.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Proud of it.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Well, you've dropped quite a few references. People may have
been able to pick up on it at this point.
But you were also a sports expert. You've written for
ESPN and the NFL, and you're an actual sports center commentator.
Where do you find time for this? How do you
keep up?
Speaker 4 (47:19):
You know, I no longer do.
Speaker 6 (47:21):
Once children entered my life, show running that fell a
little bit by the wayside, although they still get me
in certain fantasy magazines for the expert polls, which you
know makes me catnip to the ladies. But you know,
when I was that's right. Wait until you see my
(47:43):
wide receiver rankings. It's all over. That's my closer question.
What are you drinking? And what do you think about?
Speaker 4 (47:52):
All right?
Speaker 6 (47:55):
But when I would like I said, back in New York,
I did this show Channel, I did the late night show,
but we also did a show called Sports Monster that
was a parody of Sports Center, and it caught the
eye of ESPN at the time, and also Keith Oberman,
believing me a man who was at that point in
(48:16):
time on the road. He was working in la as
an anchor, but he was on the road to becoming
sort of the uber Sports Center anchor with Dan Patrick.
And when they launched ESPN two, Keith and John Walsch,
who they were really my mentors over there, they brought
(48:38):
me in to do stuff and I used to do
a department there a lot called the Tail the Tape,
and I did a book for Hyperion that collected the
ones I did over the years and some other ones.
It was basically taking the tail the tape boxing thing
of like who's got the advantage, reach height, weigh all
this stuff, but doing absurdist categories. We could do one
right now on Lively Baldoni. So it's an absurdist breakdown
(49:03):
and you declare a winner at the end. And it
was really good, and I would do a very clip
driven so if you're watching Sports Center, you didn't hate
my guts for just talking, you know. And through that,
I started to do a ton of stuff on ESPN.
I worked the Draft, I used to sit in for
Jim Rome on Talk two. I mean it blossomed into
this thing, and it was the thing that when I
(49:24):
started to write a lot on half hours, it was
sort of my sandist sanity pressure valve. I still got
to go write and perform this stuff that I had
control over, and I got to put this sort of funny, satirical,
op ed voice out there, and I was very opinionated
on the world of sports, and ultimately it led to
(49:46):
the most popular thing I did. My wife, Robin and
I did a segment on Sports Center about NFL bad beats.
I mean, Ben Pelt's doing it all the time now,
but I was the original bad beats guys on Sports Center,
where I would show the game footage and say, if
you had Carolina minus three, here's where a.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
Kicker destroyed your dreams.
Speaker 6 (50:05):
And Robin and I were sort of the sketch element
where I was the degenerate and she was my wife,
and it was wildly popular and the NFL eventually shut
us down when their deal was up. They had a
show on at the time called Playmakers that was set
in a mythical NFL where guys are like smoking crack
at act and when the game deal was up with
(50:29):
the NFL, the commissioner said, look, you can get games back,
but you're canceling Playmakers, and that the kai gambling segment's out.
But for four years before that, and now of course
everybody's you know, the ESPN has a gambling app, the
NFL has an official gambling partner. It's hilarious now, but
you know, back then it was very edgy stuff. But
(50:51):
we were the only thing on Sports Center where it's like,
if you bet this game, watch our segment Monday and
if you get if you've got a bad beat at
the end end of the game, I'm there.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Now, are you? Are you a Bills fan? Is that
what I see the helmet of that?
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, that's the real reason he doesn't talk sports.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
I'm sorry, sorry, no, it's not easy. Now, you know
how tough.
Speaker 5 (51:14):
I am it's getting it'll be it's getting easier these
last few years.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It's getting easier.
Speaker 4 (51:19):
You know.
Speaker 6 (51:20):
I've been around this planet a while, and I always
say being a Buffalo sports fan is like being the
hero in a film noir.
Speaker 4 (51:30):
You know, it's it's really exciting in act too. It's
great fighting people and you're getting laid. It's amazing, but
it doesn't end well for you.
Speaker 5 (51:39):
Oh yeah, I guess you could the same thing, say
the same thing about being a Buffalo Bills kicker. So
it's kind of the same life, Isn't it Not easy?
Speaker 1 (51:48):
I have to ask you about Paul Blart because I
think our listeners would be very bummed if I don't
mention it at all. Did you where did that idea
come from? Did you first meet him on King of Queens?
Is that where You're relationship with Kevin started?
Speaker 6 (52:01):
That's where I met him, and we worked there for
years together and we developed a really beautiful bond and
a great comedic relationship. And you know that grew out
of he had done really well in Hitch. Remember he
was just great, And yeah, he was sort of poised
at that point, and the idea was to do something
(52:22):
to sort of before that momentum evaporated and we sat
down and we were throwing things around. And I actually
worked as a security guard in Buffalo. You know, I
had lots of great jobs. They still help me write
things to this day. And I spent And the way
(52:42):
you made money on that job was you did your
regular gig, and then you got time and a half
if you worked nights and weekends and those gigs. I
was always paired with other security guards, and you'd be
like all night, I'm you know, like in the Hall
of Records downtown with some crazy security guard and or all.
I was all over the world with these guys, and
(53:03):
they were all many of these guys took the job
very seriously, and so I developed a profile and and
so Kevin and I started talking and I said, you know,
but and Kevin's bread and butter is sincerity, and so
we just started talking and we got into this. And
I have to say, Kevin's the one who said I
(53:24):
should be on one of those you know vehicles, and
because he's he's just funny, we did it. There's a
king Queen's with a whole tag is just Kevin screwing
up on a forklift it's the funniest thing. He's funny physically,
he's funny on vehicles.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
We knew this.
Speaker 6 (53:39):
Put him on a golf cart, put him on a forklift.
It's gold and uh. And we just quickly arrived at okay,
it's a dreamer, delusional mall cop and let's just make
it die hard on them all, you know. And and
we sold that fast. We wrote that fast, and it
was but we did not expect it to be as
(54:02):
popular as it was. That was really kind of a
deeply exciting moment, that opening weekend.
Speaker 4 (54:08):
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Well, finally, before I let you go, looking back now
at specifically Sabrina the Teenage Witch TGAF Friday Nights, a
job you could have never seen coming. It is obviously
an iconic character for an entire generation and now, thanks
to streaming, for generations to come. What are your emotions
(54:30):
or thoughts when you look back at young Nick and
you think about those opportunities and you voicing Salem so
early in your career.
Speaker 6 (54:40):
You know, it's really interesting, you know, you start out
with this career dream and you just you know, my
original dream was, man, I just don't want to work
a square job, you know, It's like, you know, if
I get an equity card, you start in those small
increments and in the milestones change on you.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
So much of.
Speaker 6 (55:01):
It was just I'd love to not have to spend
as much of my energy doing things I don't care about,
and that fruition is the best part always. But you know,
and you know, it's funny. I met you guys down
at that convention in Tampa. I don't have I don't
(55:22):
get to go to those things. That's the only time
I ever got to. And that was really interesting for
me because that was my opportunity to see that the
show has this. I mean, I've done so many into things,
but you know, look, I'm so proud of Bookie and
I loved every minute of doing it, but Sabrina is
(55:42):
the thing that this lasting impact. You guys see this
all the time.
Speaker 4 (55:46):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (55:46):
When I met people who love the show and then
they're introducing it to their kids, and the and the
way they express their appreciation for it, and you see
it manifest it that way, and you really, well, you know,
I actually did something.
Speaker 4 (56:01):
With legs that's a whole other level.
Speaker 6 (56:03):
I never expected that and to come full circle, you know,
it's the thing that I didn't expect it to be,
you know that the one I went in going okay,
you know, yeah, right, you know you're you're never going
to get it right when you try to predict your outcomes,
So try things right, try them, because this one's been
(56:25):
just beautiful.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Well, Nick, thank you so much for coming and spending
so much time talking to us. A pleasure to talk
to you. You've had such an interesting, fascinating career. It's
great to great to hear you reminiscent it all, So
thank you. Thanks for having me check out Booky on Max. Yeah,
where else can we find you? Where else can we
see you? That's on Max? Bookie? What else you know?
Speaker 4 (56:45):
I'm right now. We're shooting.
Speaker 6 (56:47):
I got a show coming up on Netflix. It's a
half hour with the comedian Leanne Morgan and you guys
will like this. It's an old school multi came with
an audience.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
Oh thank god.
Speaker 6 (56:58):
We're just shooting I think our seventh or eighth episode
next week. So we're back in the old uh, back
in the belly of the beast. And it's been really
fun and she's been delightful. It's on Netflix, so you
know it'll take them three years to translate it into
you know, every language under the sun. But it's coming
at you in and it's really fun.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
Great.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
Thank you wonderful.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
Well, thank you again for being here with us. Nick.
We'll look forward to seeing you next time.
Speaker 4 (57:24):
You guys are blast. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Thank you bye.
Speaker 5 (57:30):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
I still do want to know what that PR person
said about the Baldoni.
Speaker 3 (57:34):
I'm the same way.
Speaker 5 (57:35):
He's also one of those guys where I feel like
he and I speak the same language. Oh yeah, guys
like you meet somebody and you're like, it'll be like
writer meeting another professor.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
So we picked up on that right and I just
stayed pretty quiet.
Speaker 3 (57:46):
We speak the same language.
Speaker 5 (57:47):
I know this guy, okay, yeah yeah, just the old
school kind of comedy and the really random references.
Speaker 3 (57:52):
Yeah, love love for sure.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
He's so interesting, so many interesting careers, and it's funny
that how much what he said at the very beginning
of the episode reminded me of what Rusty says. It's like,
you can bang your head against door A, but eventually,
if you know, DOORB opens and you don't walk through it,
like yeah, you know, it's it's just it's.
Speaker 5 (58:09):
Funny you say that he said a couple things that
reminded me of Rusty. The other thing Rusty used to
always say to me was I knew when I was
coming up, I just never wanted to wear a suit
to work.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
Right, He's like, I.
Speaker 5 (58:18):
Just knew he would always say that to me. He's like,
I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just
knew I didn't want to wear a suit to work.
And you got that same kind of vibe from Nick
where it was just like, no, I don't.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Know exactly what it is. Yeah, yeah, right, Yeah, it's
like I just don't want to wear a suit to work,
So the same kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah. Well, thank you all for joining us for this
episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow
us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send
us your emails pod meets World Show at gmail dot com.
And we've got March.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
I still don't believe Salem was a puppet.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
March pod meets Worldshow dot com writer, send us out.
Speaker 4 (58:48):
We love you all, pod dismissed.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast producer and hosted
by Danielle Fischl Wilfordell and Ryder Straw executive producers Jensen
Karp and Amy Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo,
producer and editor, Tara Subasch, producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and
Boy Meets World Superman Easton Allen. Our theme song is
by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at
(59:12):
Podmets World Show, or email us at Podmeats Worldshow at
gmail dot com
Hosts And Creators
Will Friedle
Danielle Fishel
Rider Strong
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