April 25, 2025 • 31 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, everyone, Welcome to the Creation Podcast. I am your
host Trey and I have with me today podcast regularly
and I see our resident geologist, doctor Tim Clary.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's great being here again, yes, and.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We of course love having you on here. Normally we
talked about rocks or something like that. Today we're going
to talk about something a little different. Because you're not
just a geologist. You do have a vested passion when
it comes to dinosaurs.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
That's a good way to put it. Yeah, that's true.
I did a lot of sort of self study a dinosaurs.
As a geologist, you normally take a peontology class, but
normally it's like the invertibus, just the little clams and
seashells without backbones. That's what you see most commonly to
help you tell which rock leaders which and sometimes the
fossils do help you sort things out. But a lot
(00:56):
of geologists don't really get to study dinosaurs. But I
had the chance when I taught it a call for
many years to do kind of self imposed internships where
I want and dug for a week or two weeks
here and there, and and I really looked over the
literature trying to put together a little lab book on dinosaurs.
So I tried to look at both sides of the
situation with warm butter versus gold blooded and the feathers
(01:17):
are not feathers, And so I tried to and I
didn't tell the students, of course, what I really believed.
I just laid it out there and said, here's the evidence,
what do you think? And that kind of thing. And
that that bothered them a bit because they're like, I
want the answer. I'm like, well, there might not be
an answer. Maybe we don't we don't know of these
extinct animals. Yeah, so I have I have strong feelings.
(01:39):
I think some of the evidence supports one way or
the other. But it's it's very difficult to study an
extinct animal, you know, the whole kind of animal. You know,
all the dinosaurs are apparently extinct today, so it's hard.
It's hard to really know.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Except for kromodo dragons. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
No, no, no, no, it's okay, it's okay, a little different,
but a little different.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Okay, So we are talking about dinosaurs, but we're not
just talking about dinosaurs. We're talking about dinosaurs in relationship
to birds. Now, we are not talking about feathers We
do have a podcast a number of episodes ago where
we discuss feathers and whether or not dinosaurs said feathers,
and so you can go watch that, we'll link it here. Today,
(02:21):
we're going to talk about brains. Okay, Evolutionists of course
push this idea that dinosaurs over time evolved and became birds.
One of the ways that they do this is by
comparing bird brains with dinosaur brains, which is interesting because
(02:45):
it's like, do we have an actual dinosaur brain, but
particularly certain therapore brains like the t rex, which I
guess they consider to be some of the most bird
like or that type of dinosaur.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
So what is it's all about? Why? Why is this happening?
Why is this comparison happening?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Well, unfortunately, they don't really compare the data too much.
They kind of put it in, you know, their ideas
get put forth in the movies that can Jurassic Park
and Jurassic World, all that series that's you know a
lot of that was done by Jack Horner and you're
getting you know, he was kind of this the dinosaur
advisor in those movies, at least for a while. I'm
not sure if he did the last few, but nonetheless
(03:25):
know that those are his views that he was putting
out there. So you see things changing. Even in some
of the movies, you know, whether they could see people
or smell people or advice verus all fast they could run.
Some of that was in flux because they're always having
to go back and do better, you know, computer models
and estimate could they run, you know, et cetera. Well,
one of the things they don't they always portray us.
(03:46):
Of course, the dinosaurs are very smart and they can
open doors and they can do things that you know
birds do, like ravens can unlock things and figure things out,
and they're very very smart way to get into things,
and dinosaurs they make them that way in the movies
because they do want to push the idea that dinosaurs
evolved into birds and that birds and dinosaurs are the
(04:06):
same thing. That's that's the latest thing.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, chicken, A chicken is just a t rex. I
mean I see it on like I say that in jest.
I do see it online. Oftentimes people will just like
offhandedly be like the chicken is the descendant of the dinosaur,
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And they've been trying for over a decade now trying
to take a chicken egg and tweak its DNA enough
to make it into a dinosaur, and that's really been unsuccessful.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
They could because we see what happening.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You know. So I don't think we have to worry
about a chicken hatching a dinosaur or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
There.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think there are completely different animals, completly different kinds,
even different creation days. Birds are created on day five.
All land animals like dinosaurs would be day six, and
so they're completely different. And God specifies that in his
creation account in.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
The Bible, the birds came first.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Birds actually around first, and so you have birds and
then dinosaurs. And ironically, you know, I think maybe God
did it that way for the reason that he knew
that scientists in this day and age would say that
dinosaurs evolved into birds. And we do see birds in
the rock record way down here below in layers below
well below or the most supposedly bird like dinosaurs are
(05:20):
really most those are dinosaurs are found in three layers,
or the flood layers, as they were buried and the
zone was kind of flooded by the waves that were
coming in. You have Triassic. That's where you see dinosaurs
showing up for the first time in the rocks, and
then you see in the Jurassic layers above that and
the Cretaceous layers above that, and then they're kind of gone.
(05:40):
That's the so called dinosaur extinction. But the most bird
like ones are supposedly in the Cretaceous, the last dinosaurs
and then the but you see birds already in the Jurassic,
in the middle layers, and so in their worldview that's
forty to maybe seventy million years a time, you already
have birds buried with dinosaurs. Then you somehow they evolved
into birds that were already there. So it's kind of
(06:02):
like having a grandchild before the grandparent. Yes, but then
they kind of weasel through that, which I call it
weaseling because it's made up. They actually will dash lines
down and say, well, there's an ancestor to both somewhere
down below. We just haven't found it. And so again
that's not really science. You can't test something that's unknown
and never has been found and probably never will be.
(06:25):
It's okay to look, you know, but to base your
interpretation on something that's not there, that's not science. And
so the science supports the birds and Dinashville we're alive
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Okay, So I guess my question is, since we're talking
about the brains, what is it potentially about dinosaur brains
and bird brains that could that evolutionists could feasibly like
latch onto of like, oh, this is evidence.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You know, well, when you look at the actual brain
indo casts, recall where you can poor you can find
like the brain cavity kind of in the skull of
the dinosaurs.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Because we don't have an actual dinosaur brain.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
No, there's no, there's no there's no even preserved tissue.
I don't think we found any preserved tissues, which possible
they may find some, but the actual size of it
they have to estimate from the skull and they do
these endocasts, they do ct scans, and they can kind
of get a pretty good idea of the size of
the brain, least the maximum size. And I did this
are as an endocast that I purchased a copy of
(07:26):
one hundred and fifty eight ccs. It came up to
me they put that in relation to a human brain,
which is about I think human brains average twelve hundred
CC's or so, they're about thirteen hundred iner toes or
even a little bit bigger than that. And so you're
looking at qbic centimeters, so you look one hundred and
fifty eight, you're looking at about ten times smaller for
(07:47):
a full size you know, forty foot long t rex
compared to yours. In my brain get about a tenth
to the size of our brain.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's a pretty small brain.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And and birds, you know, same size bird, the same
dexie dinosaur, a small dinosaurs of small birds. In relation
to that, they'd be about ten times smaller. And the
shape of the brain to me, the shape of that
when they see the endocast. The shape of the brain
is a long, kind of a skinny thing that looks
just like alligator and crocodile brains. And so the brain
isn't shaped like a bird's brain. Bird brain is compacked
(08:18):
as a huge rounded part for processing data. And you know,
birds can pick out food from a pile of rocks
and debris. They could pick out exactly what they want
to eat, whereas alligators just by ask questions later, so
to speak, you know, and see what it tasted like.
If it's something they like to taste of them, they'll
swallow it, but maybe they could smell better, but I
(08:38):
don't think they could process information that they can't. Alligators
aren't known for opening doors like the show in Jurassic Park.
You know, they can't figure all that that out. They're
not built to think that way God built them to,
you know, look for their food. Originally, of course, it
would have been just vegetation in the original creative world,
but then it became distorted after Adam and Eve sinned
(09:02):
and the fall happened. Then animals dinosaurs start eating each other,
and so it's but they still can't think like birds do,
and their brain is completely different shape, and that's really
not talked about much. They make them out to be smart, right,
you know, they do all these things in the movies.
They talk about how smart they were, and they're like birds,
and they are birds, but their brain is completely shaped different,
(09:23):
completely different shape.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
We have no idea how they are.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And that brain and that brain shape matches up with
alligators and crocodiles, and so it's most likely that they
behave like alligators and crocodiles, and most likely that implies
they're also probably cold blooded like alligators and crocodiles. There's
other things on that. That's another whole podcast in itself.
But I think I think Dannswerds are mostly cold blooded.
That's one of the reason why is the brain shape
(09:46):
is just like alligars and crocodiles, nothing like a bird's
brain shape at all. And because birds they have to
do more things they're warm blooded, they have to you know,
identify their food. They have to be able to pick
it out a little bit more carefully then dude.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
They can even make enemies like you hear the stories
of like ravens who are like, oh, that person's been
mean to me.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I will cause problems.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And the chickens, actually, if you ever raised chickens, they
pick on Usually one chicken gets picked on, you know,
don't go around there. They're not very nice at times,
so you don't want to. I don't like people some
people have a pet chicken. I'm like, I don't know
about that. Well, not for you, but they but they're
actually you know, they have a bigger brain by for
their body size, just like you and I, about ten
(10:30):
times bigger than their dinosaurs. Bain and I actually plotted
up that dinosaur t rex and do cast that I had.
I displaced it in water and it came up with
about one hundred and fifty eight CC's. That's the maximum
size it could be. You know, it's filled the whole cavity,
so it's probably a little bit smaller than that. When
you pot that up on a graph of body size
to brain size, it falls really close to the reptile line,
(10:54):
really close to the reptile line. The bird line is
again an order of magnitude or ten times greater. Okay,
And so you get two different graphs. And I actually
wrote an ICR article on that. You can look up
the thing. It's called Srhinosaurus rex was no bird brain,
and so you can search that at a website. But
it actually talks about where I actually did the did
the math and plotted it up and plotted the size.
(11:16):
And again you never see the conventional paleontalogist doing that.
They don't talk about the size of the dinosaur brains.
They just make them out to be smart because they
want them to be. But the real data supprods the
brains are smaller and shaped like alligators and crocodiles, not
like a bird at all.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Okay, So.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
This is not a question that I was ever intending
to ask, but it now I think about it. Is
the whole concept of like the feathers in dinosaurs. Has
that stemmed after the fact of this whole bird thing
or was this kind of before? Are the feathers also
a part of this whole We've got to make them
(11:56):
look like a birds.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes, yes, I believe so. And you know, back in
the nineteenth century, I think they started. I think Huxley
pushed the idea of you know, Darwin's so called bulldog.
He is the guy that started pushing the dinosaurs turned
into birds, and everybody forgot about that for about the
next eighty years to the nineteen sixties when they found
(12:21):
Dinonicus and they looked at the bones of Diynonicus, which
is a kind of something like a very similar velost
raptor about bigger. It's actually what's portrayed in the movies
as vlost raptor because it's much bigger. But that was
found by John Ostrom. I think of Yale in the
early sixties.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
We have an animatronic one of those in our Discovery center.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That's right, you can come, well, don't pet them, but
you can come. He won't bite you, because this is
that's pre fall, right, so they would have eaten a
live vegetation. But nonetheless he showed that, you know, based
on the body structure, that it was probably very agile
and fast moving. And that started the so called dinosaur
renaissance where they went from being just these cold blooded,
sluggish animals shelfling around the swamp all the time to
(13:02):
now more agile and fast moving dinosaurs. And it doesn't
really mean that they're warm blooded, just that they're they're active.
And even the bone studies that they've done their bone histology,
they slice bones and study the slivers of the bone.
They they show what looks like mammal bones almost in
some of these dinosaurs because they were very active, that's
(13:22):
all the shells doesn't show their warm blooded. And so
you can because they've they've done studies with modern day
reptiles exercise. You know, one set of them exercised them
a lot, the other ones just let them lay around
like reptails do like iguanas, and the ones that they
exercised had bones like mammals and cards, and so there's
a lot of similaries. So it really just means they're active.
(13:43):
Doesn't really show warm butter and cold blooded. So but
the feathers are a natural thing. Of course, you turn
something into a bird, you want to grow feathers somehow
along the lines. And so they in the last twenty
thirty years they started finding these little hair like structures
coming off, these imprints of these dinosaurs are buried so
quickly that looks like little hair like structures coming off.
And they call those proto feathers because they're already in
(14:05):
their mind, I've already you know, thought that dinosaurs had
to evolve feather some scale somehow. But to other studies
by other paleontologists evolutionists have shown that those are when
you squish things like that, you just get collagen fibers
coming off. So they're probably most likely collagen fibers, and
that proto feathers after all. So and they've actually shown
in a study I believe in twenty seventeen that t
(14:28):
rexes had scally skin. They found lots of skin imprints
of t rex And so you still see thought to
this day, yeah, to this day, you still see renditions
in museums and movies and stuff with t rex with
feathers or something's ticking off out of its head. But
they've actually came to a pretty strong conclusion that t
Rex definitively did not have feathers, and so there's all
(14:51):
the other therapiuts did.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
What the paper said, he was special, but.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
It's they've also found in China all the these feathered
animals as well. They have real feathers, not just these
you know, hair like structures. And that also is fed
into their belief that the involve in the birds because
they're identifying these birds they had bony tails, they call
them dinosaurs. So you got things that microraptor whether feathers
(15:18):
on its back legs and front legs look archaeopterrics to
it feathers on its back legs and front legs as well,
I had a bony tail. Everybody pretty much agrees that's
the bird, although some are trying to change that into
a dinosaur because they're the same. But really that's all
been pretty much shown to be a bird that flew
like a pheasant couldn't fly really well according to the
computer studies, and Microraptor I think was almost the same thing.
(15:40):
And all those other birds you find in China, they're
really feathered, but they're calling them dinosaurs but they're not.
But I think there's enough, you know, added you know,
the anatomy of the back legs, particularly like the late
Dave Metton at aig showed that when you pull the
back legs down and make them walk like a dinosaur,
because dinosaurs and bird walk differently, that you pull the
(16:02):
legs down and that there'd be two front heavy and
they wouldn't. Dinosaurs bounce on their hips. Birds bounce on
their knees and the thighs are kind of in their
body and so they walk completely differently. That's also not
talked about. So the brain shape of dinosaurs has not
talked about. The brain size or dinosaurs, the actual numbers
are not talked about. And the back hips where they
(16:23):
walk on. You know, if it's a two legged dinosaur
turn into a two legged bird and they walk completely differently.
All they talk about is the whole look this feathers
and the front arms. All the front arms were growing
feathers to fly with the whatever catch animals or what
they're doing. They ignore half the animal, all the other problems.
And so to me, the biggest issue is is that
(16:46):
you've already got birds and dinosaurs in the same rock layers,
even before the most bird like dinosaurs come along. There
are some again a few similarities the therapy as hollow bones.
You know, the basic body shape resembles maybe a bird,
but there's so many things about them. Tell them there's
not a bird. That's that's the issue.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Okay, Well, I'm gonna stop you for a second. Okay,
We're gonna do a random science question of the day. Okay,
are you ready. I'm always trying to be ready. You'll
try to be ready. If we, as in we the
human race, uh, could bring back one type of dinosaur,
which would you choose?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Stegosaurus?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Why?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Because I don't think they would eat me.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
It's that's just that's it. That's your blank could answer.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
And they probably weren't too fast because they had big
long legs in the back about twice as long as
the front legs. You know, they could turn sideways and
look really big because they like that fan shape to
the body and there. But they're very very small teeth
in the front, and they probably were very docile compared
to a lot of dinosaur.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Would you keep on as a pet?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I don't know. If we have a big, big fence,
big fence, maybe you know, it's like kind of like
raising bisoner buffalo. You know, if they want to get out,
they get out. But so if you had you have
to almost have a brick wall around them. But I think,
you know, Stegosaurus would be pretty. They don't have big
horns to well, I guess they have the spikes on
their tail they can do some damage with if you
(18:13):
made them mad. But I think some of these dinosaurs
are would be really cool just to see you walking
around see if we got them right? You know, did
we get the renditions of these right?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
So you're going for the safe factor not the cool factor.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well, you know in his talks, I've heard him give
a Jack Horner because I dug on his crew one
year for a week up in Montana, and he he said,
I'm glad they're extinct because I want to walk around
at night. Yeah, that was what he said. So I agree.
And if there's you know, if these are fast moving dinosaurs,
(18:47):
although in a cool little climate, they wouldn't be as fast.
So you got to keep in mind the pre flood
world was probably a global greenhouse, and so the dinosaurs
could always be active even if they were cold bloody,
which I kind of think they were, and so they
I was active, but today, you know, cooler temperatures and stuffy,
they couldn't be as active maybe all the time, or
if they were, they had to stay near the equator
(19:08):
where it was warmer pretty much all the time. And
so that's one of the reasons I do believe they
want extinct. After the flood, if they got out the arcs,
they just couldn't exist in a lot of the world,
especially when ice age came on right after the for
maybe five six hundred seven hudred years after the flood,
So that kind of squeezed them into and also forced
them to live pretty close in and aproximated with humans.
(19:29):
And so a lot of humans are probably killing them
off as well. You hear about these knights killing dragons,
those are probably small dinosaurs. And to get the really
big dinosaurs that we see in the museums, those are
probably one hundreds and hundreds of years old. Yeah, and
that goes against conventional you know, evolutionary scientists wisdom as well.
They think these dinosaurs grew fast and you know, within
(19:50):
forty years, you know, there's none that even live that long.
They argue again to try to use bone structure in that,
but after a while the bone structure doesn't leave your
annual wines, right, and so there's a point where you're
just looking at the minimum made. So I do believe
these big huge soropods, just big huge t rex as
we see, they're forty foot long, the soropods one hundred
(20:10):
feet long. I think those animals were probably five, six,
seven hundred years old. Yeah, and you know, doctor j
Keebert's working on that right now. He's working on some
studies of scaling of animals and size and longevity. And
it's got some really interesting and research. It's going to
be coming out in the future on that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, and we'll have them on to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Okay, he gets a little excited though, Yeah, he doesn't
like me. I don't get as excited, but oh, doctor Jake,
he gets pretty excited by his research. And that's that's
what's great about sciences. People get passionate about their science.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I'm passionate about my geology and passionate about dinosaurs. I
just try to hold back a little.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Bit, a little more reserved, all right. So let's uh,
let's chat about like the other kind of dinosaurs. So briefly,
so we're looking at dinosaur brains. We know that they're
that evolutionist, like, oh, the therapod style dinosaurs become.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Chickens, become birds.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Uh. Do the brains of those therapod dinosaurs look different
than the brains of these other dinosaurs.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I don't know exactly. That's a good question, or I
have to admit I don't know. But most the other dinosaurs,
their brains were smaller. I know that much for the biggest,
the biggest brains of all dinosaurs, and it's because I
believe they had to go out and search for prey, okay,
and God knew that they would be eating each other,
I think, and so he built in bigger brains in them.
(21:37):
I think, you know, knowing that was going to happen,
that anim was going to sin, because he knows, He
knows everything, And so I think they they do have
bigger brains because they have to go search for food
more so than just finding it, you know, like just
purely eating vegetation all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And so I think that they.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Were Yeah, they had a better sense of smell. I
think that the old factory lobe looks pretty long, just
like kind of crackad alligator, and so they can smell
probably better than you and high for sure, but they yeah,
they're definitely differences. Most of the dinosaurs are much smaller
brains to their body ratio than the theropods, theeropods, and
I think the raptors, the last raptor and Dynanicus had
(22:20):
a bigger brain to body ratio than even the t rex,
but it still wasn't that big. It wasn't It doesn't
approach the bird size brain from what they can tell, and.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
So that's what we need to look at more more
than the actual size is the ratio to the body.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Because you're just scaling things up, and that's one of
the things that doctor Jake Hibbert's working on is a
scaling thing, and so I don't really see they plot
up on these graphs. You can plot them up on
log log paper that engineers love to do. You get
a straight line, and you actually do you get a
bird line, and you get a dinosaur line, and they're
a butter an order of magnitude below each other. You know,
size for size across the border. And that's kind of
(22:55):
the way it is with warm buttered animals versus the
cold blooded animals, and the dinosaurs always seem to follow
in that less brainy size. But they were smart enough
to do what they had to do. You know, they reproduced,
they ate, and they ate their food that got provided
for them through the vegetation. And even t rexes, you know,
I think they while they're finding distinctive layers in the
(23:18):
rack records, because they were still living in the areas
where their vegetation was. The vegetation might have varied by
elevation slightly, and so certain dinosaurs ate certain foods. They
stayed near that food source and that's why they were
buried all over the world at about the same level.
Then both that you see the t rexes or you
see the raptors, they were eating maybe different things and
(23:39):
maybe you know, being the therapause with a little bit
bigger brain, they might have had a better reaction to
the disaster of the flood coming upon them as well.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
It's a little more mobile quickly.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It might have been a little more mobile. But you know,
some of the you know, the stegosaurus always gets insulted
as the you know, having the smallest brain for its
body size, and it did have a very small brain
the body size.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
But they just had to stand there and eat.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And they you know, there used to be the rumor
of it that had a brain in its back, but
they found on some other animals that that's probably just
a fat storage spots. Really didn't have a back brain
in a front brain. So there's a lot of a
lot of things really fascinating about dinosaurs that if you
keep up on them, there's a lot of new discoveries.
There's some good science, but unfortunate it's all tainted with
(24:23):
this evolution of making dinosaurs and the birds now and
they're really pushing that in the last twenty years, it's
gotten really blatant. And the movies now that the science
is so bad. The last Jurassic World movie was so bad.
We had a whole podcast.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, we watch that.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I was like, wow, you know, it's a feathered dinosaur
jumping in the ice, swimming under the water. It's like
you're pushing the limits.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Of It wasn't even a good movie.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
The storyline wasn't all that Okay. Well, I think that
this is something that's important as I don't want to
say kids, but you know, h you're taught a certain
thing in school, and I mean you watch Jurassic Park
(25:06):
or you're taught something, and then something comes out later
that it changes, but you don't necessarily get alerted of
that change, right, right, And so you grow up believing
this thing all the time and you're like, wait a minute, what.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah, And unfortunately now kids are kind of being
brainwashed with dinosaurs or birds and dinosaurs aad feathers and
all this kind of stuff, and you know, and some
of my colleagues in the creation community are like, well,
I couldn't kind have made dinosaurs of feathers. And they
actually will tell audiences at dinosaurs aad feathers, but I
think they're not looking carefully at all the data. You know,
they're not looking at the back hips, they're not looking
(25:43):
at you know, is this a bird? Is this a dinosaur?
And even the one of the evolutionary bird pale intelligists
who studied these things, he says, almost all those dinosaurs
with feathers of the colon dinosaurs of feathers are actually
just birds, and so you you know, they're we're in
the definition so much that nobody really knows the difference.
And even I think even some creationists are caught up
(26:06):
in saying, well, these are dinosaurs and they did have feathers,
But are they really dinosaurs? You know, other experts say
they're birds. And but you know, even that particular fellow,
he's being shouted down. You know, he's being treated like
a creationist in some ways because he doesn't go along
with the mainstream science. And so he's in his books
(26:26):
he writes about how he's feels persecuted because he doesn't
believe what everybody else is supposed to believe. But he
says the data doesn't support it. And you know, he's
a bird pale intelligist. He knows more about birds and
the dinosaur pale intellogists do.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Could the creationists who are saying, well, why can't birds
have feathers? Could that just be kind of like a capitulation,
just like an area of you know, we're compromising here.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Well, I don't know if there you know, I don't
think there may be. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You can't speak for them.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Well, I don't know. Yeah, it kind of I wonder
why they're going along with that. Is it just to
fit in more with mainstream science? Because to me, and
I've tried to look at the data, you know, I
tried to look at you know, I read a lot
of different things. And that's like when I tried to
prepare my lab book for my students years ago when
I was a college professor A dinosaurs just do an
introductory a dinosaur class, but I needed some sort of lab.
(27:23):
I tried to look at both sides of the issue. If
if you get away from what's being shoved down everybody's throat,
all you get is one view, and I think these
guys are only reading that one view. They're not looking
is there an alternative explanation? Is there other people that
are saying and critically analyzing this, So I don't know
if they're not. I think you're just looking at the
(27:44):
mainstream view and saying, well, Okay, God created these things.
He created some with feathers and someone without. They're not
saying that dinosaurs evolved into birds, but I think, you know,
it's kind of if you if you start putting feathers
on them, then you're basically saying that dinosaurs are very
like And I don't think the evidence really supports that.
There's a lot of evidence that's never talked about by
(28:05):
these few naysayers, even in the evolutionary community, that say
dinosaurs were cold blooded. The evidence supports that the dinosaurs
didn't have feathers, that those are actually birds that have
feathers that you're looking at, you know, extinct birds with bony.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Tails and they different.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, and they're not looking at the brains. The brain side.
The brains are can put a different shaped in size,
and so, uh, the real dinosaurs had nothing like a
bird brain. Real dinosaurs didn't have feathers, just like t
Rex didn't have feathers.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Okay, that's it. That's the definitive answer. Well, we got
it from.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
If there's if there's more data that comes out and
shows that if you find a dinosaur, a true dinosaur,
not something that's ambiguous. Right, you know, you can you know,
some people say this and this and this, if you
find something that's a true dinosaur like a stegosaurus, or
if you find a you know, and they would they
looked at t Rex. They didn't find it. They found
scaly skin. You can find scaly skinner princes of dinosaurs
(29:02):
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Well, if new data does come out, we'll reshoot this podcast.
Well we'll have a follow up.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
We'll trash this one. We'll start over and say Corey
was wrong. I'll be the first to admit it. Today,
I haven't seen anything definitive that tells me that this
is a feathered dinosaur. What I see I agree more
with Ale and Fiducia, who's the evolutionary pale intellogist, that
these are feathered birds. Well, bony tails just like ker
cheap tricks.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Okay, well, any final thoughts before we draw this to
a close.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Dinosaurs were not bird brains.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
All right, there you go my final thought. It's your
final thought.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Rocketile brains, crocodile brains.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
That's good. Okay, Well, thank you again so much for
being here, and it's always a pleasure to absolutely you're
your fun to talk to you. So and thank you
to all of our viewers and listeners. We appreciate you
watching this video on bird brains, and of course it
we delved into a little bit more of you know,
(30:02):
our dinosaurs the ancestors of birds. No, the answer is no.
The Bible does not state as much. And so there's
your answer. So we would appreciate it if you gave
this video alike, if you shared it, if you subscribed,
share this with your friends and family who are huge
dinosaur nuts. I'm sure they'll appreciate it, especially if they're
(30:25):
not creationists, they'll really appreciate it. And also, if you
want to get an episode of this podcast a week early,
or if you want to receive creation dot Live two
weeks early, you can become a member. We have three
tiers of membership. They all offer different perks. You can
join here, on YouTube or on Patreon, and we would
(30:47):
just appreciate the engagement in that way. If you have
any questions or you want a topic to be covered
on a later episode of this podcast, just leave a
comment in the comments below and we'll see what we
can do about getting that question answered. So we'll see
you next time on the Creation Podcast
Speaker 2 (31:10):
M
Hello, everyone, Welcome to the Creation Podcast. I am your
host Trey and I have with me today podcast regularly
and I see our resident geologist, doctor Tim Clary.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's great being here again, yes, and.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We of course love having you on here. Normally we
talked about rocks or something like that. Today we're going
to talk about something a little different. Because you're not
just a geologist. You do have a vested passion when
it comes to dinosaurs.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
That's a good way to put it. Yeah, that's true.
I did a lot of sort of self study a dinosaurs.
As a geologist, you normally take a peontology class, but
normally it's like the invertibus, just the little clams and
seashells without backbones. That's what you see most commonly to
help you tell which rock leaders which and sometimes the
fossils do help you sort things out. But a lot
(00:56):
of geologists don't really get to study dinosaurs. But I
had the chance when I taught it a call for
many years to do kind of self imposed internships where
I want and dug for a week or two weeks
here and there, and and I really looked over the
literature trying to put together a little lab book on dinosaurs.
So I tried to look at both sides of the
situation with warm butter versus gold blooded and the feathers
(01:17):
are not feathers, And so I tried to and I
didn't tell the students, of course, what I really believed.
I just laid it out there and said, here's the evidence,
what do you think? And that kind of thing. And
that that bothered them a bit because they're like, I
want the answer. I'm like, well, there might not be
an answer. Maybe we don't we don't know of these
extinct animals. Yeah, so I have I have strong feelings.
(01:39):
I think some of the evidence supports one way or
the other. But it's it's very difficult to study an
extinct animal, you know, the whole kind of animal. You know,
all the dinosaurs are apparently extinct today, so it's hard.
It's hard to really know.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Except for kromodo dragons. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
No, no, no, no, it's okay, it's okay, a little different,
but a little different.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Okay, So we are talking about dinosaurs, but we're not
just talking about dinosaurs. We're talking about dinosaurs in relationship
to birds. Now, we are not talking about feathers We
do have a podcast a number of episodes ago where
we discuss feathers and whether or not dinosaurs said feathers,
and so you can go watch that, we'll link it here. Today,
(02:21):
we're going to talk about brains. Okay, Evolutionists of course
push this idea that dinosaurs over time evolved and became birds.
One of the ways that they do this is by
comparing bird brains with dinosaur brains, which is interesting because
(02:45):
it's like, do we have an actual dinosaur brain, but
particularly certain therapore brains like the t rex, which I
guess they consider to be some of the most bird
like or that type of dinosaur.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
So what is it's all about? Why? Why is this happening?
Why is this comparison happening?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Well, unfortunately, they don't really compare the data too much.
They kind of put it in, you know, their ideas
get put forth in the movies that can Jurassic Park
and Jurassic World, all that series that's you know a
lot of that was done by Jack Horner and you're
getting you know, he was kind of this the dinosaur
advisor in those movies, at least for a while. I'm
not sure if he did the last few, but nonetheless
(03:25):
know that those are his views that he was putting
out there. So you see things changing. Even in some
of the movies, you know, whether they could see people
or smell people or advice verus all fast they could run.
Some of that was in flux because they're always having
to go back and do better, you know, computer models
and estimate could they run, you know, et cetera. Well,
one of the things they don't they always portray us.
(03:46):
Of course, the dinosaurs are very smart and they can
open doors and they can do things that you know
birds do, like ravens can unlock things and figure things out,
and they're very very smart way to get into things,
and dinosaurs they make them that way in the movies
because they do want to push the idea that dinosaurs
evolved into birds and that birds and dinosaurs are the
(04:06):
same thing. That's that's the latest thing.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, chicken, A chicken is just a t rex. I
mean I see it on like I say that in jest.
I do see it online. Oftentimes people will just like
offhandedly be like the chicken is the descendant of the dinosaur,
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And they've been trying for over a decade now trying
to take a chicken egg and tweak its DNA enough
to make it into a dinosaur, and that's really been unsuccessful.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
They could because we see what happening.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You know. So I don't think we have to worry
about a chicken hatching a dinosaur or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
There.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think there are completely different animals, completly different kinds,
even different creation days. Birds are created on day five.
All land animals like dinosaurs would be day six, and
so they're completely different. And God specifies that in his
creation account in.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
The Bible, the birds came first.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Birds actually around first, and so you have birds and
then dinosaurs. And ironically, you know, I think maybe God
did it that way for the reason that he knew
that scientists in this day and age would say that
dinosaurs evolved into birds. And we do see birds in
the rock record way down here below in layers below
well below or the most supposedly bird like dinosaurs are
(05:20):
really most those are dinosaurs are found in three layers,
or the flood layers, as they were buried and the
zone was kind of flooded by the waves that were
coming in. You have Triassic. That's where you see dinosaurs
showing up for the first time in the rocks, and
then you see in the Jurassic layers above that and
the Cretaceous layers above that, and then they're kind of gone.
(05:40):
That's the so called dinosaur extinction. But the most bird
like ones are supposedly in the Cretaceous, the last dinosaurs
and then the but you see birds already in the Jurassic,
in the middle layers, and so in their worldview that's
forty to maybe seventy million years a time, you already
have birds buried with dinosaurs. Then you somehow they evolved
into birds that were already there. So it's kind of
(06:02):
like having a grandchild before the grandparent. Yes, but then
they kind of weasel through that, which I call it
weaseling because it's made up. They actually will dash lines
down and say, well, there's an ancestor to both somewhere
down below. We just haven't found it. And so again
that's not really science. You can't test something that's unknown
and never has been found and probably never will be.
(06:25):
It's okay to look, you know, but to base your
interpretation on something that's not there, that's not science. And
so the science supports the birds and Dinashville we're alive
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Okay, So I guess my question is, since we're talking
about the brains, what is it potentially about dinosaur brains
and bird brains that could that evolutionists could feasibly like
latch onto of like, oh, this is evidence.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You know, well, when you look at the actual brain
indo casts, recall where you can poor you can find
like the brain cavity kind of in the skull of
the dinosaurs.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Because we don't have an actual dinosaur brain.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
No, there's no, there's no there's no even preserved tissue.
I don't think we found any preserved tissues, which possible
they may find some, but the actual size of it
they have to estimate from the skull and they do
these endocasts, they do ct scans, and they can kind
of get a pretty good idea of the size of
the brain, least the maximum size. And I did this
are as an endocast that I purchased a copy of
(07:26):
one hundred and fifty eight ccs. It came up to
me they put that in relation to a human brain,
which is about I think human brains average twelve hundred
CC's or so, they're about thirteen hundred iner toes or
even a little bit bigger than that. And so you're
looking at qbic centimeters, so you look one hundred and
fifty eight, you're looking at about ten times smaller for
(07:47):
a full size you know, forty foot long t rex
compared to yours. In my brain get about a tenth
to the size of our brain.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's a pretty small brain.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And and birds, you know, same size bird, the same
dexie dinosaur, a small dinosaurs of small birds. In relation
to that, they'd be about ten times smaller. And the
shape of the brain to me, the shape of that
when they see the endocast. The shape of the brain
is a long, kind of a skinny thing that looks
just like alligator and crocodile brains. And so the brain
isn't shaped like a bird's brain. Bird brain is compacked
(08:18):
as a huge rounded part for processing data. And you know,
birds can pick out food from a pile of rocks
and debris. They could pick out exactly what they want
to eat, whereas alligators just by ask questions later, so
to speak, you know, and see what it tasted like.
If it's something they like to taste of them, they'll
swallow it, but maybe they could smell better, but I
(08:38):
don't think they could process information that they can't. Alligators
aren't known for opening doors like the show in Jurassic Park.
You know, they can't figure all that that out. They're
not built to think that way God built them to,
you know, look for their food. Originally, of course, it
would have been just vegetation in the original creative world,
but then it became distorted after Adam and Eve sinned
(09:02):
and the fall happened. Then animals dinosaurs start eating each other,
and so it's but they still can't think like birds do,
and their brain is completely different shape, and that's really
not talked about much. They make them out to be smart, right,
you know, they do all these things in the movies.
They talk about how smart they were, and they're like birds,
and they are birds, but their brain is completely shaped different,
(09:23):
completely different shape.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
We have no idea how they are.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And that brain and that brain shape matches up with
alligators and crocodiles, and so it's most likely that they
behave like alligators and crocodiles, and most likely that implies
they're also probably cold blooded like alligators and crocodiles. There's
other things on that. That's another whole podcast in itself.
But I think I think Dannswerds are mostly cold blooded.
That's one of the reason why is the brain shape
(09:46):
is just like alligars and crocodiles, nothing like a bird's
brain shape at all. And because birds they have to
do more things they're warm blooded, they have to you know,
identify their food. They have to be able to pick
it out a little bit more carefully then dude.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
They can even make enemies like you hear the stories
of like ravens who are like, oh, that person's been
mean to me.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I will cause problems.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And the chickens, actually, if you ever raised chickens, they
pick on Usually one chicken gets picked on, you know,
don't go around there. They're not very nice at times,
so you don't want to. I don't like people some
people have a pet chicken. I'm like, I don't know
about that. Well, not for you, but they but they're
actually you know, they have a bigger brain by for
their body size, just like you and I, about ten
(10:30):
times bigger than their dinosaurs. Bain and I actually plotted
up that dinosaur t rex and do cast that I had.
I displaced it in water and it came up with
about one hundred and fifty eight CC's. That's the maximum
size it could be. You know, it's filled the whole cavity,
so it's probably a little bit smaller than that. When
you pot that up on a graph of body size
to brain size, it falls really close to the reptile line,
(10:54):
really close to the reptile line. The bird line is
again an order of magnitude or ten times greater. Okay,
And so you get two different graphs. And I actually
wrote an ICR article on that. You can look up
the thing. It's called Srhinosaurus rex was no bird brain,
and so you can search that at a website. But
it actually talks about where I actually did the did
the math and plotted it up and plotted the size.
(11:16):
And again you never see the conventional paleontalogist doing that.
They don't talk about the size of the dinosaur brains.
They just make them out to be smart because they
want them to be. But the real data supprods the
brains are smaller and shaped like alligators and crocodiles, not
like a bird at all.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Okay, So.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
This is not a question that I was ever intending
to ask, but it now I think about it. Is
the whole concept of like the feathers in dinosaurs. Has
that stemmed after the fact of this whole bird thing
or was this kind of before? Are the feathers also
a part of this whole We've got to make them
(11:56):
look like a birds.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes, yes, I believe so. And you know, back in
the nineteenth century, I think they started. I think Huxley
pushed the idea of you know, Darwin's so called bulldog.
He is the guy that started pushing the dinosaurs turned
into birds, and everybody forgot about that for about the
next eighty years to the nineteen sixties when they found
(12:21):
Dinonicus and they looked at the bones of Diynonicus, which
is a kind of something like a very similar velost
raptor about bigger. It's actually what's portrayed in the movies
as vlost raptor because it's much bigger. But that was
found by John Ostrom. I think of Yale in the
early sixties.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
We have an animatronic one of those in our Discovery center.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That's right, you can come, well, don't pet them, but
you can come. He won't bite you, because this is
that's pre fall, right, so they would have eaten a
live vegetation. But nonetheless he showed that, you know, based
on the body structure, that it was probably very agile
and fast moving. And that started the so called dinosaur
renaissance where they went from being just these cold blooded,
sluggish animals shelfling around the swamp all the time to
(13:02):
now more agile and fast moving dinosaurs. And it doesn't
really mean that they're warm blooded, just that they're they're active.
And even the bone studies that they've done their bone histology,
they slice bones and study the slivers of the bone.
They they show what looks like mammal bones almost in
some of these dinosaurs because they were very active, that's
(13:22):
all the shells doesn't show their warm blooded. And so
you can because they've they've done studies with modern day
reptiles exercise. You know, one set of them exercised them
a lot, the other ones just let them lay around
like reptails do like iguanas, and the ones that they
exercised had bones like mammals and cards, and so there's
a lot of similaries. So it really just means they're active.
(13:43):
Doesn't really show warm butter and cold blooded. So but
the feathers are a natural thing. Of course, you turn
something into a bird, you want to grow feathers somehow
along the lines. And so they in the last twenty
thirty years they started finding these little hair like structures
coming off, these imprints of these dinosaurs are buried so
quickly that looks like little hair like structures coming off.
And they call those proto feathers because they're already in
(14:05):
their mind, I've already you know, thought that dinosaurs had
to evolve feather some scale somehow. But to other studies
by other paleontologists evolutionists have shown that those are when
you squish things like that, you just get collagen fibers
coming off. So they're probably most likely collagen fibers, and
that proto feathers after all. So and they've actually shown
in a study I believe in twenty seventeen that t
(14:28):
rexes had scally skin. They found lots of skin imprints
of t rex And so you still see thought to
this day, yeah, to this day, you still see renditions
in museums and movies and stuff with t rex with
feathers or something's ticking off out of its head. But
they've actually came to a pretty strong conclusion that t
Rex definitively did not have feathers, and so there's all
(14:51):
the other therapiuts did.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
What the paper said, he was special, but.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
It's they've also found in China all the these feathered
animals as well. They have real feathers, not just these
you know, hair like structures. And that also is fed
into their belief that the involve in the birds because
they're identifying these birds they had bony tails, they call
them dinosaurs. So you got things that microraptor whether feathers
(15:18):
on its back legs and front legs look archaeopterrics to
it feathers on its back legs and front legs as well,
I had a bony tail. Everybody pretty much agrees that's
the bird, although some are trying to change that into
a dinosaur because they're the same. But really that's all
been pretty much shown to be a bird that flew
like a pheasant couldn't fly really well according to the
computer studies, and Microraptor I think was almost the same thing.
(15:40):
And all those other birds you find in China, they're
really feathered, but they're calling them dinosaurs but they're not.
But I think there's enough, you know, added you know,
the anatomy of the back legs, particularly like the late
Dave Metton at aig showed that when you pull the
back legs down and make them walk like a dinosaur,
because dinosaurs and bird walk differently, that you pull the
(16:02):
legs down and that there'd be two front heavy and
they wouldn't. Dinosaurs bounce on their hips. Birds bounce on
their knees and the thighs are kind of in their
body and so they walk completely differently. That's also not
talked about. So the brain shape of dinosaurs has not
talked about. The brain size or dinosaurs, the actual numbers
are not talked about. And the back hips where they
(16:23):
walk on. You know, if it's a two legged dinosaur
turn into a two legged bird and they walk completely differently.
All they talk about is the whole look this feathers
and the front arms. All the front arms were growing
feathers to fly with the whatever catch animals or what
they're doing. They ignore half the animal, all the other problems.
And so to me, the biggest issue is is that
(16:46):
you've already got birds and dinosaurs in the same rock layers,
even before the most bird like dinosaurs come along. There
are some again a few similarities the therapy as hollow bones.
You know, the basic body shape resembles maybe a bird,
but there's so many things about them. Tell them there's
not a bird. That's that's the issue.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Okay, Well, I'm gonna stop you for a second. Okay,
We're gonna do a random science question of the day. Okay,
are you ready. I'm always trying to be ready. You'll
try to be ready. If we, as in we the
human race, uh, could bring back one type of dinosaur,
which would you choose?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Stegosaurus?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Why?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Because I don't think they would eat me.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
It's that's just that's it. That's your blank could answer.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
And they probably weren't too fast because they had big
long legs in the back about twice as long as
the front legs. You know, they could turn sideways and
look really big because they like that fan shape to
the body and there. But they're very very small teeth
in the front, and they probably were very docile compared
to a lot of dinosaur.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Would you keep on as a pet?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I don't know. If we have a big, big fence,
big fence, maybe you know, it's like kind of like
raising bisoner buffalo. You know, if they want to get out,
they get out. But so if you had you have
to almost have a brick wall around them. But I think,
you know, Stegosaurus would be pretty. They don't have big
horns to well, I guess they have the spikes on
their tail they can do some damage with if you
(18:13):
made them mad. But I think some of these dinosaurs
are would be really cool just to see you walking
around see if we got them right? You know, did
we get the renditions of these right?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
So you're going for the safe factor not the cool factor.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well, you know in his talks, I've heard him give
a Jack Horner because I dug on his crew one
year for a week up in Montana, and he he said,
I'm glad they're extinct because I want to walk around
at night. Yeah, that was what he said. So I agree.
And if there's you know, if these are fast moving dinosaurs,
(18:47):
although in a cool little climate, they wouldn't be as fast.
So you got to keep in mind the pre flood
world was probably a global greenhouse, and so the dinosaurs
could always be active even if they were cold bloody,
which I kind of think they were, and so they
I was active, but today, you know, cooler temperatures and stuffy,
they couldn't be as active maybe all the time, or
if they were, they had to stay near the equator
(19:08):
where it was warmer pretty much all the time. And
so that's one of the reasons I do believe they
want extinct. After the flood, if they got out the arcs,
they just couldn't exist in a lot of the world,
especially when ice age came on right after the for
maybe five six hundred seven hudred years after the flood,
So that kind of squeezed them into and also forced
them to live pretty close in and aproximated with humans.
(19:29):
And so a lot of humans are probably killing them
off as well. You hear about these knights killing dragons,
those are probably small dinosaurs. And to get the really
big dinosaurs that we see in the museums, those are
probably one hundreds and hundreds of years old. Yeah, and
that goes against conventional you know, evolutionary scientists wisdom as well.
They think these dinosaurs grew fast and you know, within
(19:50):
forty years, you know, there's none that even live that long.
They argue again to try to use bone structure in that,
but after a while the bone structure doesn't leave your
annual wines, right, and so there's a point where you're
just looking at the minimum made. So I do believe
these big huge soropods, just big huge t rex as
we see, they're forty foot long, the soropods one hundred
(20:10):
feet long. I think those animals were probably five, six,
seven hundred years old. Yeah, and you know, doctor j
Keebert's working on that right now. He's working on some
studies of scaling of animals and size and longevity. And
it's got some really interesting and research. It's going to
be coming out in the future on that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, and we'll have them on to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Okay, he gets a little excited though, Yeah, he doesn't
like me. I don't get as excited, but oh, doctor Jake,
he gets pretty excited by his research. And that's that's
what's great about sciences. People get passionate about their science.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I'm passionate about my geology and passionate about dinosaurs. I
just try to hold back a little.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Bit, a little more reserved, all right. So let's uh,
let's chat about like the other kind of dinosaurs. So briefly,
so we're looking at dinosaur brains. We know that they're
that evolutionist, like, oh, the therapod style dinosaurs become.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Chickens, become birds.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Uh. Do the brains of those therapod dinosaurs look different
than the brains of these other dinosaurs.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I don't know exactly. That's a good question, or I
have to admit I don't know. But most the other dinosaurs,
their brains were smaller. I know that much for the biggest,
the biggest brains of all dinosaurs, and it's because I
believe they had to go out and search for prey, okay,
and God knew that they would be eating each other,
I think, and so he built in bigger brains in them.
(21:37):
I think, you know, knowing that was going to happen,
that anim was going to sin, because he knows, He
knows everything, And so I think they they do have
bigger brains because they have to go search for food
more so than just finding it, you know, like just
purely eating vegetation all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And so I think that they.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Were Yeah, they had a better sense of smell. I
think that the old factory lobe looks pretty long, just
like kind of crackad alligator, and so they can smell
probably better than you and high for sure, but they yeah,
they're definitely differences. Most of the dinosaurs are much smaller
brains to their body ratio than the theropods, theeropods, and
I think the raptors, the last raptor and Dynanicus had
(22:20):
a bigger brain to body ratio than even the t rex,
but it still wasn't that big. It wasn't It doesn't
approach the bird size brain from what they can tell, and.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
So that's what we need to look at more more
than the actual size is the ratio to the body.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Because you're just scaling things up, and that's one of
the things that doctor Jake Hibbert's working on is a
scaling thing, and so I don't really see they plot
up on these graphs. You can plot them up on
log log paper that engineers love to do. You get
a straight line, and you actually do you get a
bird line, and you get a dinosaur line, and they're
a butter an order of magnitude below each other. You know,
size for size across the border. And that's kind of
(22:55):
the way it is with warm buttered animals versus the
cold blooded animals, and the dinosaurs always seem to follow
in that less brainy size. But they were smart enough
to do what they had to do. You know, they reproduced,
they ate, and they ate their food that got provided
for them through the vegetation. And even t rexes, you know,
I think they while they're finding distinctive layers in the
(23:18):
rack records, because they were still living in the areas
where their vegetation was. The vegetation might have varied by
elevation slightly, and so certain dinosaurs ate certain foods. They
stayed near that food source and that's why they were
buried all over the world at about the same level.
Then both that you see the t rexes or you
see the raptors, they were eating maybe different things and
(23:39):
maybe you know, being the therapause with a little bit
bigger brain, they might have had a better reaction to
the disaster of the flood coming upon them as well.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
It's a little more mobile quickly.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It might have been a little more mobile. But you know,
some of the you know, the stegosaurus always gets insulted
as the you know, having the smallest brain for its
body size, and it did have a very small brain
the body size.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
But they just had to stand there and eat.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And they you know, there used to be the rumor
of it that had a brain in its back, but
they found on some other animals that that's probably just
a fat storage spots. Really didn't have a back brain
in a front brain. So there's a lot of a
lot of things really fascinating about dinosaurs that if you
keep up on them, there's a lot of new discoveries.
There's some good science, but unfortunate it's all tainted with
(24:23):
this evolution of making dinosaurs and the birds now and
they're really pushing that in the last twenty years, it's
gotten really blatant. And the movies now that the science
is so bad. The last Jurassic World movie was so bad.
We had a whole podcast.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, we watch that.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I was like, wow, you know, it's a feathered dinosaur
jumping in the ice, swimming under the water. It's like
you're pushing the limits.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Of It wasn't even a good movie.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
The storyline wasn't all that Okay. Well, I think that
this is something that's important as I don't want to
say kids, but you know, h you're taught a certain
thing in school, and I mean you watch Jurassic Park
(25:06):
or you're taught something, and then something comes out later
that it changes, but you don't necessarily get alerted of
that change, right, right, And so you grow up believing
this thing all the time and you're like, wait a minute, what.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah, And unfortunately now kids are kind of being
brainwashed with dinosaurs or birds and dinosaurs aad feathers and
all this kind of stuff, and you know, and some
of my colleagues in the creation community are like, well,
I couldn't kind have made dinosaurs of feathers. And they
actually will tell audiences at dinosaurs aad feathers, but I
think they're not looking carefully at all the data. You know,
they're not looking at the back hips, they're not looking
(25:43):
at you know, is this a bird? Is this a dinosaur?
And even the one of the evolutionary bird pale intelligists
who studied these things, he says, almost all those dinosaurs
with feathers of the colon dinosaurs of feathers are actually
just birds, and so you you know, they're we're in
the definition so much that nobody really knows the difference.
And even I think even some creationists are caught up
(26:06):
in saying, well, these are dinosaurs and they did have feathers,
But are they really dinosaurs? You know, other experts say
they're birds. And but you know, even that particular fellow,
he's being shouted down. You know, he's being treated like
a creationist in some ways because he doesn't go along
with the mainstream science. And so he's in his books
(26:26):
he writes about how he's feels persecuted because he doesn't
believe what everybody else is supposed to believe. But he
says the data doesn't support it. And you know, he's
a bird pale intelligist. He knows more about birds and
the dinosaur pale intellogists do.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Could the creationists who are saying, well, why can't birds
have feathers? Could that just be kind of like a capitulation,
just like an area of you know, we're compromising here.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Well, I don't know if there you know, I don't
think there may be. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You can't speak for them.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Well, I don't know. Yeah, it kind of I wonder
why they're going along with that. Is it just to
fit in more with mainstream science? Because to me, and
I've tried to look at the data, you know, I
tried to look at you know, I read a lot
of different things. And that's like when I tried to
prepare my lab book for my students years ago when
I was a college professor A dinosaurs just do an
introductory a dinosaur class, but I needed some sort of lab.
(27:23):
I tried to look at both sides of the issue. If
if you get away from what's being shoved down everybody's throat,
all you get is one view, and I think these
guys are only reading that one view. They're not looking
is there an alternative explanation? Is there other people that
are saying and critically analyzing this, So I don't know
if they're not. I think you're just looking at the
(27:44):
mainstream view and saying, well, Okay, God created these things.
He created some with feathers and someone without. They're not
saying that dinosaurs evolved into birds, but I think, you know,
it's kind of if you if you start putting feathers
on them, then you're basically saying that dinosaurs are very
like And I don't think the evidence really supports that.
There's a lot of evidence that's never talked about by
(28:05):
these few naysayers, even in the evolutionary community, that say
dinosaurs were cold blooded. The evidence supports that the dinosaurs
didn't have feathers, that those are actually birds that have
feathers that you're looking at, you know, extinct birds with bony.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Tails and they different.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, and they're not looking at the brains. The brain side.
The brains are can put a different shaped in size,
and so, uh, the real dinosaurs had nothing like a
bird brain. Real dinosaurs didn't have feathers, just like t
Rex didn't have feathers.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Okay, that's it. That's the definitive answer. Well, we got
it from.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
If there's if there's more data that comes out and
shows that if you find a dinosaur, a true dinosaur,
not something that's ambiguous. Right, you know, you can you know,
some people say this and this and this, if you
find something that's a true dinosaur like a stegosaurus, or
if you find a you know, and they would they
looked at t Rex. They didn't find it. They found
scaly skin. You can find scaly skinner princes of dinosaurs
(29:02):
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Well, if new data does come out, we'll reshoot this podcast.
Well we'll have a follow up.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
We'll trash this one. We'll start over and say Corey
was wrong. I'll be the first to admit it. Today,
I haven't seen anything definitive that tells me that this
is a feathered dinosaur. What I see I agree more
with Ale and Fiducia, who's the evolutionary pale intellogist, that
these are feathered birds. Well, bony tails just like ker
cheap tricks.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Okay, well, any final thoughts before we draw this to
a close.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Dinosaurs were not bird brains.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
All right, there you go my final thought. It's your
final thought.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Rocketile brains, crocodile brains.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
That's good. Okay, Well, thank you again so much for
being here, and it's always a pleasure to absolutely you're
your fun to talk to you. So and thank you
to all of our viewers and listeners. We appreciate you
watching this video on bird brains, and of course it
we delved into a little bit more of you know,
(30:02):
our dinosaurs the ancestors of birds. No, the answer is no.
The Bible does not state as much. And so there's
your answer. So we would appreciate it if you gave
this video alike, if you shared it, if you subscribed,
share this with your friends and family who are huge
dinosaur nuts. I'm sure they'll appreciate it, especially if they're
(30:25):
not creationists, they'll really appreciate it. And also, if you
want to get an episode of this podcast a week early,
or if you want to receive creation dot Live two
weeks early, you can become a member. We have three
tiers of membership. They all offer different perks. You can
join here, on YouTube or on Patreon, and we would
(30:47):
just appreciate the engagement in that way. If you have
any questions or you want a topic to be covered
on a later episode of this podcast, just leave a
comment in the comments below and we'll see what we
can do about getting that question answered. So we'll see
you next time on the Creation Podcast
Speaker 2 (31:10):
M
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