World Challenge

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I'm Gary Wilkerson and you've joined us here on
the Garyson Podcast. I'm here with Joshua West, Joshua High.
How's it going.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Glad to be with you.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
We're continuing our series, a twelve week series on the
power of God and how he's moving in the world today,
looking at a move of God in our generation and
that takes a different forms, and the forms we're talking
about are really heart issues. People aren't looking at a
revival and spiritual awakening and saying like, oh, I needed
to be charismatic or I needed to be emotional. What
they say, I need to be life changing. I want

(00:29):
a revival to make me more like Jesus. So these
are attributes of Jesus that we can take hold of
into our own life and be real to us. Today
we're talking about how goodness overcomes evil. But really this
is a powerful topic when you know, when you think
of this, the two kingdoms at war right from the
Garden of Eden, you see this conflict the serpent and

(00:54):
Adam and Eve. Then the serpent in Christ him stepping
on the serpent's head and the serpent striking the heel,
and that that striking of the heel actually is so
poisonous it causes the death, the death of Christ, but
he rises again and that crushes the head of Satan.
Then there's this cosmic battle that's been going on for
a long time. So Joshua, just to start with, I

(01:15):
kind of want to not talk about us and our
battle with good and evil, but just what's going on
in the cosmic realm. And I'm not really into you know,
that really bizarre. There's kind of a strange spiritual warfare thing, right,
but there really is in reality things going on behind
the scenes that we don't know, powers, principalities, rulers, dominions.

(01:36):
I think sometimes here in America today we are so materialistic,
not in the sense of finances and money, but material world,
the things we can touch, taste, see the scientific proof
of these things. And now we're attributing everything that is
it is probably supernatural in its essence, we're attributing it

(01:56):
to material things like, oh, that's a chemical imbalance, that's
not demon possession. Oh that wasn't Satan the devil, that
was just you know, bad luck. And this is crept
into the church as well, I think.

Speaker 4 (02:08):
Right, I think you know the sort of you have
your out in the open, sort of like philosophical secular humanism.
But the under current of that is the philosophy of naturalism.
And I think naturalism when you see materialism in that context,

(02:28):
I think that's that's really what we're talking about. And
I think sometimes when you mentioned you know, people who
do very bizarre and unbiblical things, you know, when it
comes to quote unquote spiritual warfare or talking about things
that are I mean, they're just seems like they're just
making them up. I think sometimes people who are a
little more biblical and maybe even a little more you know,

(02:53):
just reserved, don't want to get caught up in that,
so they stay silent about it. But I think the
truth is is that if we don't have a good
sense that there is a spiritual world that is more
real than the material world that we live in, that
we will will will make wrong decisions how we live

(03:14):
our life, how we view people, how we preach doctrine,
how we live in community, how we pursue things in life,
how we treat people. When we don't look at these
terms like good and evil in a deeply rooted spiritual sense,
you know, I don't I wouldn't say it goes quite
as far as when we talked about love, the word

(03:36):
being co opted. But you know, but good, you know,
can to some people good means, you know, great, how's
our service?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Was it great? Was it good? Was it mediocre?

Speaker 4 (03:47):
But in in biblical definitions, good is not under great,
it's next to it. And so we're not talking about
something that's not quite great but it's pretty good. We're
talking about goodness, ultimate goodness, which is connected to justice,
which is connected to truthfulness, which is connected to the
very character of God. And so I think it's important

(04:09):
just from the beginning to say to talk about these
things in our world.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yes, that we need to realize that there is.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Objective good, there is objective evil, and we know what
those things are based on God's word. And I think
what we're talking about is how do those things flesh
out into our lives?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
How does good overcome evil?

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, I think just backing up again a little bit
more to we're starting at the starting point because we
can talk about good and evil, and if we just
talk about good and evil, we're going to be talking
about it more on a philosophic natural level, which is
which is it comes down to that, right, You and
I as people live in a people's world, and we
have to there's conflict, and there's evil that is just

(04:52):
human human evil like sinners. But what I want to
talk about first was outside of that without get into
the And the reason I want to get into this
is because I've so avoided it. I so avoided it
because it's so hyper charismatic, right, Uh, you know, a demon,
everything's a demon and uh you know, oh I saw
an angel and I went to the heaven five times

(05:14):
and or I died.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
You know, all this just just utter craziness.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
And so I think that almost puts a bad light
on looking into the spiritual realm of good and evil
and and makes us makes us almost like you know,
I think we c S. Lewis or somebody that said, like,
you know, one of the devil's greatest desires is to
make himself not like he doesn't exist exactly right, and
then he was, you know, then he can do whatever

(05:39):
he wants without getting any credit for it. If he
doesn't get any credit for it, then he's not going
to get any conflict addressed towards him. And yet you know,
so so in my naturalistic or humanistic. I know that
sounds strange for a pastor to be saying that that,
but a lot of pastors read the scripture through a
humanistic point of view. And even so you go to

(06:01):
Ephesian six, we wrestle not against flesh and blood, of
its powers and principalities. And so we start thinking about powers.
Somebody who's powerful principalities. Maybe that's like the northeast of
or Washington, d C. It's a you know, it's it's
a human principality and power.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
But then he goes on.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
To spiritual forces. You know, so he's talking about something
that is supernatural, that is that is uh, a created reality.
You know, those things didn't just It's not like God
existed and then the devil existed and they you know,
they're in this cosmic battle. It's all these are creative beings.
But uh, if we're gonna understand good and evil, we

(06:38):
have to first, I think, understand what's behind you know,
so you put up a picture of of of an
evil person, you know, Jeffrey Dahmer or something like that,
without question, there is behind that person a dark force,
a reality, no doubt saying we're wrestling not just against
you know, people that kill, steal, and destroy, but the

(06:59):
one who over that kill still in the story.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
So we have a double a double enemy, if you will.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, no, I totally agree.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
You know we are we have a battle against the world,
our flesh.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
And the devil, right, and we preach a lot about
the flesh.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
We talk a lot about the world, and not in
a glorifying, fining way, but we don't talk a lot
about the devil or his host of fallen angels or
because like you mentioned that, some hyper charismatic people have
turned that, you know, so it's almost comical, you know,
the idea, and it negates responsibility from us and all

(07:36):
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
But the Bible speaks a lot about these things.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
Before I forget to let me just encourage anybody who's listening,
if you want a really really good book about this
that has balanced biblical theological but it tackles some of
these issues. A man by the name of Michael Heiser
wrote a book called The Unseen Realm, and I used
it in some of my doctoral studies, and in it

(08:01):
it's such a balanced book that made me realize that
I did I haven't asked as many questions about this
as I should have, and he in its scripture, I mean,
he's going through scripture. But I think I think you're
right if we if we leave that component out, then
we're then we're missing a very vital enemy, you know,

(08:23):
evil as a face.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Right.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I can tell, I can tell we're meant to be
talking about what we're meant to be talking about, because.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
I just read the book recently.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
I haven't finished it yet, to be honest with you,
but that's where by someone my thinking has gone. If
it was going to be a revival and you're reading
the book that I just mentioned.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
I was going to mention it today. Sorry, I'm glad
you did better.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, you know, just for those who are listening. You know,
it kind of speaks something about the spiritual realm, you know,
not only the evil but good, that God is up
to something.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, as you used that in your doctoral study.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
I know you never told me that, And I'm looking
at that now and I'm just blown away by it.
And it's not just that book, but a couple others
that I'm studying, but the unseen realm in a sense,
and saying, like a man, I have not been I've
not been allowing that to be part of my worldview,
thus part of my ministry. That's not part of my life.
So when I'm seeing when my kids went through some

(09:16):
addiction problems, I never saw that as I saw that
as fleshley and sin, which it is, and they're responsible.
I'm not saying like they're you know, because I ask
people to look look at the demonic realm and the
realms of darkness and evil and put all the weight
of responsibility on that, like, oh, if we can just
get them out of the picture, then but yeah, if
all the demons and devils were gone, we'd still be

(09:38):
sinners and so but yeah, that the Hellser's book on
the Unseen Realm kind of opened my eyes to say, Okay,
you know, I'm not just battling with flesh and blood
or not even my own that there there's without getting
wacky and weird, you can really contend. And that's exactly
what Paul saying in Romans twelve. Here overcome evil with good.

(10:00):
So you know that, but but before you can, I
think you have to realize that. And that's that's where
that that book you're talking about goes into and you
probably know more than me, since you've studied it for
your doctoral studies. But you know, the idea of you know,
Saytan right from the very beginning all the way through
the end, and and you know, fallen angels, and you know,

(10:22):
it's just just some of this just seems kind of
bizarre to me, and I don't want to get into
the details because of it. But at the same time,
it just opened my eyes up to the fact that
when we read things like do not Romans twelve twenty one,
do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
It's it's not just I'll try to do nice things.
My good deeds will help overcome an evil world. It's

(10:45):
it's there's a duality here in a sense of my
good deeds and my love for people and my you know,
the verse before that is if your enemies hungry, feed him,
you know. So that's that's a good thing you're doing.
That's a good is overcoming the evil and that. But
there's something more cosmic going on behind the scenes as well.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
Yeah, in this I was in the same chapter of
Scripture I like in the beginning because you know, obviously
most people may know this already, but just in case
they don't. The Book of Romans is really laid out
as the first eleven chapters are talking about what God
did for us, right, you know in the Gospel, why
we need salvation, all of that. But then once you
get to chapter twelve, then it shifts skiers. Now you

(11:27):
do this, you live this way, here's your responsibility. And
so when it goes through the first part of chapter twelve,
it's time out being this living sacrifice. This is what
we're called to as Christians, to not be conformed to
the pattern of this world. Then it starts giving us
these actual practical things. But one of my favorite scriptures
in Romans is Romans twelve nine, when it says, let

(11:49):
love be genuine, abhor what is evil, and hold fast
to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection.
And then it goes on outdo but for me. Just
verse nine, it says, let love be genuine, abhor what
is evil, and hold fast to what is good. I
think sometimes you could you could parallel this with the

(12:10):
scripture where John says, do not love the world or
the things in the world. When we're talking about that,
of course, it says Jesus died for the world in
John chapter three. So what are we talking about? Talking
about two different things? We're talking about. He died for
the world, for the people made in his image to
be saved through Christ. But underneath that there's this fallen

(12:32):
world system, principalities, and spiritual darkness. And so when he's
talking about, you know, abhoor, what is evil? This is
what he's talking about. And he's not saying abhor the
person who who is evil? There there that manifest even
that has evil in them. That doesn't mean like in society,

(12:53):
we don't put people like you know, Dahmer in prison,
but but we also understand that there's something dark there.
You mentioned your kids, you know, dealings with addiction, and
you know, I'm so thankful that God has healed and
helped them all. But you know, and not even trying
to like say, I don't know all of their stories.
I know some of them got pretty deep into it
and some of them may be less. But you know,

(13:15):
I was deep, deep in addiction, and I'm here to
tell you not from my experiential knowledge, but when you're
in deep, deep addiction, there is I have no doubts
about a dark spiritual realm. It's a dark place. Addiction
is a dark place, you know, and I feel like
it it is spiritual, it's not just physical. And so

(13:38):
I feel like that that there's a lot of elements
to the way evil is present in humanity. And I
think what's interesting here is, you know, it's telling us
to hold fast to what is good, you know, and
to to love what is genuine and abhor what is evil.
And in my opinion, I think this is saying the

(13:59):
way the sentence written out that if what is good
and love that's genuine is not evil, right, and anything
that is not rooted in the love of God, anything
that is not rooted in the goodness of God, is evil.
And I think this is something deeper and more spiritual,
just like the scripture referenced ten Ephesians when Paul is

(14:20):
talking about, you know, this idea of standing, and you know,
all these things he's asking us to do. But then
he says, remember that we're not actually wet warring against
flesh and blood, but in spiritual principalities in high places.
And then in light of this, arm yourself with this
armor of God. It's not a hokey thing, He's He's
giving us practical advice to make sure we understand what

(14:43):
we're really fighting here, what we're really up against, and to.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Hold fast to the victory that we have in Christ.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
Pastor Joshua west Here, co host of the Gary Wilkerson Podcast,
want to invite you to go to World Challenge dot
org and listen to the latest sermon series from myself
and from Gary Wilkerson.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
So taking that approach of seeing the unseen realm, the
spiritual powers and principalities that are working as let's saying,
in addictions or in a troubled marriage, or in depression
or suicidal thoughts, you know, those are those are fallen name.
You know, we would, like I said earlier, we would
have those just as sinners and a fallen nature. But

(15:24):
then then there's this power pushing us into these these
wicked thoughts and vain imaginations. And so as we are
over this word in verse twenty one of chapter twelve
of Romans is overcome that. So that's that's that's a
battle word to you know, it's it's two forces conflicting
with each other, and one will overcome the other. And
in twenty one, verse twenty one, there there's no neutral

(15:47):
there if you've noticed that before you are either going
to be overcome by evil or you're going to be
overcoming evil with good.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
You're not going to be you're not going to say
I opt out of this.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Battle in neutrality as am.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, you you will be overcome by evil if you're
if you're neutral. So and so I'm advocating today in
this podcast for not an abandonment of personal responsibility and
all things seem in the spiritual realm, but to say,
look look at the how God created the world. There's
and he created heaven and earth, and you know, the
powers and principality. These are things that are real. And

(16:22):
so we're battling with both of those. But no matter
which way we're battling that, it's interesting we battle with good,
you know that. And so Jesus was, you know, totally
perfect example of this conflict. He overcame evil with good.
And so he clearly understood this, this realm that we're

(16:42):
talking about today, he understood and he he says, you know,
I came to destroy the works.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
Of the devil.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, that's that's clearly a and and how he and
he didn't do that with the sword or with power
or with you know, human authority. He he did that
through love. It was it was like all this evil,
this and all this darkness and all these powers and principalities.
Who would think, you know, coming on a cult and
a donkey into Jerusalem would be a tool an overcoming tools, right?

(17:11):
Something good like that was humility, which we talked about
in our first episode of this series.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Go back and watch that one was that was good.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
But yeah, overcoming that So it's it's a it's something
that we are engaged in that that has human realities
to it, but also as a supernaturality behind it.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
Two things I would say one is this what you're
hitting on is is a major problem in Christianity today
is that we want to overcome evil in ways that
weren't modeled for us through Christ. We want to come
overcome evil through through It's almost we want to overcome

(17:48):
evil through the flesh. Paul warns us against this. We
can't overcome evil through the flesh. I think when Jesus
and John chapter eight calls the Pharisees the sons of
the devil, you know, it seems like this staggering thing,
but the truth is there is only two kingdoms you're
either part of his kingdom or you're part of the
kingdom of darkness, whether you know it or not.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
And so I think it's important to.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Be conscientious of that and to realize that the way
we overcome evil is modeled for us by Jesus in
the scripture. Actually we get a pure example of it
in Jesus's temptation as he's led into the wilderness by
the spirit, and Jesus overcomes the temptation of the devil
by the word of God, and then later all through

(18:37):
his ministry he's literally living those things out in practical
ways for us, and ultimately he overcomes the ultimate evil
by doing something that's completely counterinto it, by laying down
his life so that he could raise it up again.
But I was going to say one more thing about
the book we were talking about. I think another reason
you know, this podcast isn't about that book. But I

(18:59):
think one of the things that's really healthy about reading
that book is he takes great pains to distance what
he's talking about from our pop culture perception of what
these things are. Because immediately, for most people, when you
think of you know, demons, a lot of people they
think of the movie the Exorcist store. They think of
this weird you know, manifestation seeing in this movie, and

(19:22):
so we have to work really hard because in pop
culture there's one theme that lives in like scary movies
and stuff that even no matter how the demon looks
or what happens, what gets glorified is the fact that
this unknown power that we might be able to overcome
in and of ourselves, but there is no ultimate power

(19:45):
of good over it. So it's like they show up
and it's uncontrollable.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
There's nothing we can do.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
And so I think that influence is the way we
think about these things, rather than realizing that the battle
is won, the war is over. Christ has victory, and
what God is asking us to do is to align
ourselves with His kingdom and to overcome in these areas
of our life as we're still reaching back into a
lost and dark world for people that we want to

(20:13):
come into the light. I think we have to fight
these battles as our flesh comes in contact or in
contradiction of God's word.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
But that's a spiritual battle too. We have to realize
that there's an enemy. He's a liar, you know. He
is the father of lies Jesus.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
He's a murder from the beginning if we I'm not
saying we have to live in fear of the devil,
but let's not underestimate the fact that apart from Christ,
that he has a lot of superiority to us. And
so I'm not preaching that hyping up the devil. What
I'm saying is it makes us cling to Christ, it
makes us cling to his word, and it also makes

(20:52):
us deal with people differently, because if we're dealing with
flesh in the flesh, we end up not dealing with
the lost like they're perishing rather than like they're the enemy.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, And to do that, you know, we're working on
you know, two levels. We we are made of you know,
flesh and bone, but we live in a spiritual world.
There's there's a connection between the two worlds. And so
when we're when we're wanting to overcome evil, whether it
be family difficulties, marriage difficulties, addictions and in our loved ones,

(21:31):
we're wanting to overcome that or even even more on
a you know, on a national scale, to see the
you know, the powers and principalities behind the things like
abortion or the gender confusion in schools today, no doubt
society day, you know, So how do how does good
overcome those type of things? And I think seeing ourselves
as we're human, and there's some human things we can do,

(21:53):
yes that that you know, we can, we can contend,
we can pray, But then there are some supernatural things
He can do as well. And so again going back
to my kids, you know, part of part of our
victory was you know, showing good love to them and
grace to them. But a part of it was also
contending in the spiritual realm, praying for the power of
God to come, praying that the powers of you know,

(22:14):
that Satan would be loose, he would not be his
hands could not grip on our kids. And really and
taking authority you know that we we I do believe
we have authority or powers of darkness. And again the
hyper charismatic craziness is has turned me off to a
lot of that or the excessiveness in this thing. But
but that's to my own detriment to you know, and

(22:36):
I'm wakening once again to say, Okay, there's there's things
here that there's powers that the Lord has allowed us
to have. You know, he could do it himself. He
could he could he you know, why did he? Why
did he choose us? You know why why does he
seem to have I guess you call delegated authority. Seems
like he delegated authoritied angels and then he delegated authority

(22:57):
to us, you know, in the in the Garden of Eden,
he tell them, you know, rule and and subdue and
and work this and and and not all that's just human.
A lot of that is behind the scenes, working and stuff.
So that should that should call us to have faith
in the powers of of of God's spirit, that the
Holy Spirit is at work in and through us, the

(23:17):
power of prayer, the power of taking authority, the the
the spiritual warfare that has done biblically and you know,
with with with, you know, partnership and community. So we're
not getting off on a tangent or getting too much
into two realms of mysticism. Almost but but being rooted

(23:38):
and grounded in the word. But yet but fighting a
real spiritual battle. And that's that's the bast So there's good,
but this is the best good. The best good is
the supernatural power that he's you know that Jesus has
all authority, but He gave us authority as well, right,
and I think we can use that in ways that
really can help change us. And again in the context
of speaking of revival and spiritual way, this could be

(24:00):
a great move of God in our country. If God
moves so powerfully in our churches that I guess called
the spirit of this good authority that God's given us
can can contend with the powers of darkness and culture.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
I think we can win great victories.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
I think the line I completely agree with you.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
I think the line that causes you know, the charismatic,
the hyper charismatic confusion and trouble that people are very
turned off by. Mainly some people want to discount it altogether.
But I think it really it really is the man
sinderedness of it versus the Christ's centeredness of it. That

(24:39):
the authority is Christ now has God given us see
us in heavenly places, and we're at the right end
of God and in God, we have the Holy Spirit
living in us. Yes, but I think it's it's it
turns into for the glory of man rather than for
the glory of God. And we also have to be
trusting into the sovereignty of God. So when we pray
and we try us you know, like with your kids.

(25:03):
You know, I can think of my own life. There
was seasons of people who had done everything they could do,
they could pray, they but what they really had to
trust at some point was that God was that God
was working all things together for the good of those
who love it called according to his purpose, and that
God was doing a work in me. I think one

(25:23):
of the things the advantages of talking about the supernatural
and the fact that there is a spirits and principalities.
You know that God is a spirit, you know, who
desires to We were worshiped in spirit and truth. We
can drive it all the way back to the gospel.
If we don't think about the gospel, is this utterly
supernatural transaction? Like not like, hey, you're a Christian now,

(25:46):
so you stopped cussing and you've got a better haircut
and you're a respectable member of society. No, you are
dead in sin and trespass, and now you have been
raised to life through a spiritual birth through the spirit
of God. I think if we're really like if we're
odd and wondered by the supernatural nature of the Gospel,
then we realize that that's kind of that's the life

(26:09):
we're living, us walking in the spirit. So we think
of supernatural as sometimes being like casting out demons and
stuff like that. But the fact that you're able to
bear the fruit of the spirit, that you're actually able
to be good, that you're actually able to walk according
to the spirit, not according to the flesh, these are
miraculous things in and of themselves. And so I think

(26:32):
when we want the thing that my mind went to
and I don't want a huge can of worms. But
it's just the way we look at politics in our
culture sometimes where we've seen I think you should be
a responsible citizen. I think you should vote for people
that bestly represent your Christian values, be it you know,

(26:54):
you can debate if they're Christian and odd or false,
but people that are lining up with the law of God.
But I think a lot of people have almost decided
that there is no there is no way for God
to do them. And the truth is the opposite is true.
If our if the culture, if our culture is going
to turn, we we should do good and work towards

(27:16):
that because that's who we are as people. But if
God's going to change this this nation like he did
Israel at certain times in their history. It's going to
be because we humble ourselves, we see God and we
want something miraculous to happen. It's going to take a
move of God, you know. And we can't be afraid
of saying things like that. The thing that we have

(27:37):
we can't make it seem like, is that we have
the formula for that, and that we can make God
do that. Know, we we pray and wait knowing that
God is good, and so anyways, well how.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
We how we close this off?

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Then I would say, is so you're you're confronting a
situation in your own own life, and you know that
Satan is trying to tempt you. You have something in
your family, have something in your church. There's things going
on in our nation, and we are encouraging today for
people to through through good deeds and through love, counteract that.

(28:13):
But also just take a step alongside of that and
say prayer and resist. You know, another scripture comes BND
to resist the devil and he will flee from you.
That's pretty good. That's a goodness to get the devil
fleeing running from us.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
But yeah, but the whole not the correct you, but
the whole scripture is submit yourself to the Lord, resist
the devil, and he will flee. And that's I think
resisting the devil for him to flee is the flesh
submitting ourselves to God resisting the devil.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
I know that's not what you meant.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
I just wanted to say that for the benefit of
the here, submitting ourselves to the Lord, then we can
resist the devil and he flee.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Otherwise we're just fighting a battle we can't win.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, you know, not that we should, but that it's
a given that we're talking about people who want to
submit to the Lord. Yes, but they're not taking that
step of faith to say, Okay, you know, I think
the's a lot of people are submitting to the Lord
that aren't actually engaged in the devil, you know. And
so I think I love how those two things tying together.
It's one verse that needs to be brought to fullness.

(29:11):
So thank you, thanks again for joining us.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
We just men. We just scratched the surface of this thing.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
We can go for ten hours on this thing, but
dig deeper, look into this thing, and maybe we just
did open up your eyes to it a little bit.
Of awareness of some things that are going on that
can give you some more desire to engage in various
ways opportunities that God has graced us with and through
His power and authority to work in these things.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
So don't forget to.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Subscribe to our podcast, and also you can play some
comments on there. I'd love to hear an encouraging word
from you as well as check out World Challenge dot
org for great resources that can help your faith continue
to grow.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
God bless you have a wonderful day.

Speaker 5 (29:50):
If you're enjoying the podcast but want to dig deeper,
both Gary and Joshua have books that you can buy
right now on our online store. Go to World Challenge
dot org and click on the store tab at the
top of the page. There you'll find books written by
David Wilkerson, Gary Wilkerson, Joshua West and others as well.
Check it out today. Ephesian six point eighteen says that

(30:14):
we should pray at all times in the spirit, with
all kinds of prayer and supplication. If you would like
someone at World Challenge to pray with you, visit World
Challenge dot org, forward slash prayer or call us at
one eight three three WC praise again. That's one eight

(30:34):
three three WC praise. Thank you for joining us. We'll
see you next time.