Married To A Backstreet Boy

What is it like to be married to a Backstreet Boy? AJ’s wife Rochelle reveals if it’s more like “I Want it That Way” or “Quit Playing Games with My Heart”.

Rochelle answers every question Cheryl has no holds barred. At times, it’s a heartbreaking conversation while simultaneously filled with love and hope.

AND, IN A CAN’T MISS MOMENT... AJ’s wife plays kiss, marry, kill the Backstreet Boys edition and you won’t believe her answers!

Plus, let’s talk about Carole Baskin!

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm pretty up. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of

(00:32):
Pretty Messed Up I Heart Radio podcast with myself, Vin Diesel,
the beautiful Cheryl Burke, and Mr Rine Alasondo. I save
In Diesel because of the comment that was said to me,
Jasmine please okay, sorry Princess Jasmine. I'm Vin Diesel apparently,
and I'll be Renee and your Renee. Well that's what
Bruno called me tonight. Knock knock case so good. Yeah, literally,

(00:59):
Bruno called me Vin Diesel tonight, and he said he
was like he he enjoyed the performance, but he was
laughing because he was picturing Vin Diesel doing Aladdin, which
I thought was interesting. I mean, I'm sorry, I I
shaved my head. What can we do with that comment, Bruno?
How can we take that back to the studio? Yeah,
how do I incorporate fast and furious into the samba? So, Cheryl,

(01:21):
let me ask you. Let me ask you something. Last
time you came in and you seem like you it
seemed like I didn't hit or you. It seemed like
you guys didn't hit the mark in your eyes. Today
when I watched you, I felt like I could see
in your eyes that Okay, we're moving in the right direction.
It was that. So is that a bad read on

(01:45):
my partner? Is it good? No? I think you know.
I mean, honestly, I feel like all we've been doing
is moving forward right, especially when it comes if you're
looking at the numbers. So as far as I'm concerned,
we're on the right track. Now. What I don't want
is for us to get all sevenths is perfect. I
know that, you know Mr Aladdin over here on an
eight or was wishing for one. But I say, you know,

(02:07):
the slower we can go up the better than getting
there and high too early and then going downhill, which
I've experienced all of the above. So I do kind
of feel a little crappy that I had a moment too.
You know, wish for the pandemic to me for the pandemic,
I wish for my for my family, you wish for

(02:28):
and not for, you know, I wish for my family
to be there watching me do Disney Week. But no,
I blurred out eight. It seemed to get a good reaction.
It was just fine. It was short and sweet. You
didn't have a lot of time anyway to answer. I know, honestly,
what I love. The most about that is that it
was honest. It was I can tell you I could hear.

(02:50):
I could feel your brain like going like a thousand
miles per hour. And I was like, just say the eight,
because you know, I was I was assuming that the
conversation was going to go towards my kids, which it
did for like a hot second, and then all of
a sudden and then she pulled one out of the
lamp and I'm like, uh, eight. I mean I could

(03:10):
have said they wanted they didn't want you to cry
again for the second week. So yeah, we'll say that
if every other week, but not every Yes, Hey, you
know what happened. I was Johnny's night to cry totally.
Wait did he missed that? He did get emotional, very emotional.
One He cried in his package to talking about his family.
Oh yeah, why, well, his family basically gave up everything.

(03:31):
They sold their cars, they sold a home to pay
for him to be able to continue down his path
and his dream to be an Olympic. You know, I
have to be honest right now. I wasn't caught up
with the lingo. And when you said he cried in
his package, I was like, what package? Yes, the world

(03:56):
cried packages Renee and very Udy else listening right now.
It's the little like video package they show right before
our dance, which I find to be very important. Like
for me as a viewer, I like to watch those
more than the dance. That's when you get drawn in,
that's when that's that's the voting right there. So that's
why I say, like, it's it's vital that anyone who

(04:18):
does the show shows their vulnerability and and is able
to talk about the reality of their lives, which is
why I feel like, like with actors, it's harder for
them to do Dancing on the Stars because sometimes they
don't want to, you know, show that side of them.
But would it help you guys if let's see on
the next one, maybe a J cries in Peter's package. No,
we always crying live is the best best that he

(04:40):
actually nailed it from Your Night. He bought himself a
couple of weeks. Yep, it's the crying in the scrotum
are not in the same category. What are you talking about? Well,
you said package, that's because that's what it's called, right,
But you misinterpreted that as a as a scrow them.
So it's fine. Okay, you're going stop with the Okay,

(05:02):
so share bear question? Stop it? What did you I mean?
I guess with my turquoise eyeshadow. Okay, if you aside
from us, you know, because we have to love ourselves. Kay,
who was your favorite dance tonight? Mh. I'm curious because

(05:22):
I know I'm thinking I have one in my mind.
Oh that's good. I haven't asked you yet. I'm just
letting you know it's ready. I know I'm so I'm thinking.
I'm thinking. Look, I don't think any dance really like
popped for me. I feel like, okay, look, I feel
like Sky got underscored. Would I would definitely agree with that,

(05:44):
and I listen. I loved like Caitlin's Ramba. I agree
with Derek. This is a ballroom number and it's not contemporary,
so you have to wear dance shoes. This is the
problem with Nelly as well, although they seem to be
letting him slide with the shoes Surgeon getting these new shoes,
but the thing is they don't have him. They also
have nothing to compare him to now because he's never

(06:04):
worn dance shoes, and it's starting to be kind of annoying.
So hopefully you know this guy he keeps promoting is
getting some business whatever is happening, because happy stopping him,
but it stopped Nellie is not doing himself any favors,
I don't think, but the audience loves him, and I
know that I can feel that they were pretty rough
and Carol, they know what they should have said, is

(06:26):
that Pasha who's a new dancer. He's a new pro dancer.
He I can tell you I could write down every
single step he did from the technique book of like
the Latin American dancing and I have for that. I
applaud him and her because that's not easy. If you
would have given her, let's say, just another just pro whatever,
that um may not have been fresh off the competition

(06:47):
floor like Pasha, he would have just put a bunch
of bs. But like it's samba is one of the
hardest dances for everybody, and samba and ramba. I feel
like I could speak for non professionals, just us sit
at home, and I got you know, when someone kind
of is rough on them that when the judges are Yeah,
Bruno was just being catty, I think, but I feel

(07:10):
myself cringing a little. You know, it hurts because you know,
especially if you're hard, they work, you know, especially it's
like they're not trying for this. And if you're not
a performer, if if you have zero experience and you
really are coming in here just trying with everything, you've
got to get criticized, but not in a negative way,

(07:33):
but to get criticism that sometimes it sounds harsh, even
if it's not meant to be. That's got to be brutal.
You know. Honestly, every season there is that person, like
last season with Sean Spicer, right, and then the season
before that, it was like that you always have, Like
we had a Bristol We had Bristol palin On who like,
no matter what she would do, whether it would just

(07:54):
be standing literally standing there in the middle of the
floor in a guerrilla suit right dancing with Mark ballas
she made the final Like, so like you have like
the one or two contestants that kind of like we
also had that Kate Gosslin woman who had like twenty kids,
and like you always have the controversial character that always
gets the you know, ship and the ship end of

(08:16):
the stick. Really it sucks, but they kind of I
mean you've got to think that they do know their place, right,
like in that sense, like you're coming on this show
to hopefully redeem yourself like Ryan Lofty did well. The
upside also is Pasha got, you know, to be part
of Lady Lady Gaga, you know, freaking Instagram account. So
there's there's a win right there. He got more followed,

(08:37):
there's a win right there, Thank you, Lady Gaga. And
that whole Simon cow factor kind of thing, right that
kind of persons a little rough. People tune in to
watch that too, you know, yeah, yeah, no, And by
the way, that but that's why Len Goodman was so good.
And I do have to say I love Derek. I
don't think I don't think you can come can compare

(08:58):
really other than like, yes, I can see that Derek's
trying to be more um of the technical judge. But
there was something about Lenn Goodman's delivery that was just
so ballroom. So this is supposed to be a ballroom show, right,
So Lenn Goodman used to judge all of us when
we were kids, so he's like a real like he
is like from like our ballroom world. Whether and then

(09:18):
you have like Carrie In and Bruno who are from
like the other types of dance world. Like you got
carry In who was a fly girl, You've got Bruno
who was in Like what was it Michael something, Michael
flatly lord of the Dance. I don't know. Was he
doing the Irish George Michael George Michael, I'm dyslexic George video.

(09:39):
Do you know what I love about this podcast is
is that people are watching you guys, and then they
see your package and I'm not trying to be funny.
I'm not trying to be funny. They see your package
and that's the most behind the scenes that are going
to see, right, So you guys get a chance to
do that and then come here and then talk openly

(10:02):
and honestly about you know, it actually feels really good.
I must say. It's like therapy for me because so
I've been so edited for the past fifteen years. People
are okay. So I also started my own YouTube channel,
by the way, and my last video has caused so
much controversy, like because no one knows this side of me.
So my humor is very dry, I would say, and sarcastic,

(10:24):
so like you don't know when I'm joking and you
don't know when I'm being serious. And for those people
who have no idea that I must come across like
a crazy woman, right, Like how do you go from
being such a supportive dance teacher to like this crazy bitch?
But that's just like my humor, you guys, and I've
just been edited. Like that's how everyone knows me for
the last fifteen years. Well, now they get to see

(10:45):
you in a different light. You know which is which
is because look, everyone has both those sides. Everybody does
like you know you it could be waking up on
the wrong side of the bed that day, or you
could just have you been edited like at the end
of the day. God, I mean at the beginning of
my career, like we literally we were told even if

(11:06):
we had girlfriends, you can't say that you have a girlfriend.
You have to dress a certain way. Um, everything was
all freaking color coordinating. Which was annoying. Is they wouldn't
like bleep you. I mean, Also, all of these packages
are about you guys, They're not about us, so they
don't really know knows of us. They just don't know us.
What I do like is that you get to see,

(11:27):
like you said, you get like everyone knows knows me
or not maybe maybe not everyone. There could be a
bunch of viewers. I don't know who I am from Adam,
but you you you get to, like without even trying,
show people a completely different side of you. And really,
like I said it before, you know, peel back the layers. Um,

(11:49):
you know, because look, whether you come out of a
group or a football team, or a TV show or
a reality show, people or whatever, or a sye state,
Um that's next week. People, people have tunnel vision with
what they think they know of you. And you think
of a show like this, you don't think that maybe

(12:09):
you will get the opportunity to actually get to know
somebody on a very deep level because all emotions I
mean and aja you can just you can vouch for this.
Like my humor is very like I'm happy, sad, joking,
like this is my tone. It's the same face. Even
offended my good friend Kelly Monico, I think at some
point because like so me and her, I've known her

(12:31):
the longest, right, So she won the very first season
of Dancing with the Stars with her her professional dancer. Um,
she also did the whole like um they did like
a redo of like the winners, right, So they did
a special. This was the very beginning before I was
even on, and then me and her basically became friends.
And then I said something funny because there was there
used to be trios on Dancing with the Stars. I

(12:52):
danced with Harrell Owens and then like Kelly Monico was
the trio, right, So we did a trio rumba and
rumba alone is just so hard in itself, but then
to add another girl, you know, it's like it's really challenging. Um.
And then we got eliminated right that night. Obviously it
wasn't because of Kelly, but I was joking, totally joking.

(13:12):
I was doing a reaction video of like my costumes
throughout the years with my two gays, Tony and c J.
That I told you about the two brothers that are
lovers that look like brothers tongue in Mormon's. We should
have them on. That would be a lot of fun, right, um.
And then she got offended, So like, really, that's how
dry I am. You guys, even my friends don't know
when I'm joking. Now I have to tell you that

(13:35):
I love your sense of humor. You know, the truth
is is we we have a lot of the same stuff,
you know, um where people are like, wait was that
a joke? And then the right people get it right.
The other thing I was going to say is before
we move on to you know, talking about decks, right,

(13:55):
which is um that there is a red carpet persona
and people always see that, right, People always get a
chance to see that, and me as a fan, I
always want to know more like what's really going on
under their right and and that's what I love about

(14:16):
this podcast. And I've been getting a lot of feedback
from on social media of people just saying they love
listening to you guys with your hair down, shoulders down.
That's just on frame up, you know. Yeah, so you
guys want to talk about docks because I love listening

(14:39):
to all three of us. Renee, you're included in this. Yes,
they're listening to everybody knock knock well that yeah, well
that that that's going to be your that's your like slogan, bro,
that's your interests knock Yes, but that's your license plate
is the license you guys are awesome? So on your

(14:59):
mic knock No, I was gonna say, it's kind of
you know, it seems almost scripted to me. Right that
we started a podcast we talked about Sobriety. Dax talks
about Sobriety has his podcast. In fact, they do. If
you want to tell yeah, I mean it's it's a
it's an interesting story choreography and yeah, I know, and

(15:23):
you're killing it. Um, it's an interesting story. Because so
my wife, who we are going to have on later
in the show, she is a huge, huge fan of
Dax's podcast and and just of him as an actor
and as you know, just a freaking human being. As
am I. Um, I wasn't really listening to any kind

(15:44):
of podcasts then, and she was like, you gotta check
out Dax's podcast. So I listened to a couple of
episodes with her while we're driving around town and I
and I got sucked in and and I love that
every one of his episodes, somehow, some way would always
reflect back on Recovery. Who whoever he had on as
a guest. It didn't matter if they were a politician,

(16:05):
if they were a guru, if it was a friend
of a friend, it was a comic, it didn't matter.
But so one afternoon my wife finished listening and while
she was doing your makeup, and she's like, you know,
you and Renee have no have been friends for twenty years.
You guys should do a podcast, Like our daily conversation
is pretty much the same conversation we have on this show.

(16:28):
Like we we talked about anything and anything, So cut
two approaching my heart and talking about it and then
finding out that you had something in the works that
you were working on, and then next thing you know,
we're partnered on Dancing with the Stars. I must say,
it wasn't weird that weird. It's kind of like a

(16:50):
manifested it did it did, and it was just like
and and it's been Yes, it's been a blessing because
this is a great trio right here, and it's there's
a lot of a lot of wisdom, but there's also
a lot of learning going on, yes, And I love that,
and that's what's been missing for me. I feel like
I learned so much from you, when normally it's the

(17:11):
other it's just all about yeah, And I've learned a
lot from you in the last month that I've known you,
because again, we've we've met him passing, but never never
on this level. And I definitely am a firm believer
that nothing happens by accident, even when it seems like, wait,

(17:31):
that's a coincidence, it's not. Because you've been on your path,
right and you decided to stop drinking on your own,
and all of a sudden, here we are on a podcast.
And then what I was getting to was when I
when I got a text message. It was from Rochelle,
it was from both of us were on the golf course.

(17:52):
I went, oh, man, Ducks actually just said he re laughed. Yeah.
I I read it, and I was like, wait, whole
just rewind for everybody listening. So Dax has his own podcast,
Shepherd with his Arms. I forget her name, Kristen Bell.

(18:13):
That's not his wife. I think her name is mom
Monica Monica, that's her name. And what's the name of
his podcast, Armchair Expert. Yeah, And so we were on
the golf course and again it felt scripted. I thought
she was kidding with me, and it said Dax relapse.

(18:35):
And I know that a lot of what he talks
about is sobriety and being sober for a long time.
And instantly I was like, oh my god, I feel
so sorry for him because I relapsed after a long time,
and you have to walk through a lot of shame
that that you put on yourself people of people around

(18:57):
you in this program. Uh, they welcome you back with
open arms, but they don't judge because you know, we
know that this disease is a beast and it could
happen to anybody. I if I could tell you guys
a quick little story, Um, I relapsed after fourteen years. Now.

(19:20):
I used to be really deep into the program. If
you wanted to kill me, you know where to find me.
I was always up at Seah Retreat at a meeting there.
And then I relapsed. I was out. I was trying
to the stuff Jacks was talking about. I was trying
to pretend like I'm still sober. And then and then
I had a birthday during fourteen year birthday, and my

(19:42):
wife knew I was high, right, And um, I said
to her on my birth what's supposed to be my birthday?
Because it says I'm keeping the secret that I'm getting high.
And I looked at her and I said, hey, you
don't have to make me a cake this year, because
every year birthday you'd make every sober birthday, she'd make
me a cake. And I looked at her and I said, Uh,

(20:05):
you don't have to make me a cake because I
was feeling ashamed. And she just stopped and she looked
at me, and she she just looked at me, looked
right through me, and she goes, yeah, no ship. So
yeah she she you'll meet her and she's a black
belt allan on. We could get into it months later.
Oh no, she she's she's she's dying. That's the one

(20:28):
thing I want to do. That's you and Brett need
to meet well. And like going back to what he
was saying, like me and the Me and the fellas
were about to do a show at the Forum just
to us Backstreet, and there's a little like v I
P area up in the back that like all the

(20:48):
like v I P guests, that's all the you know,
CELEBT guests come to hang out before the show. And literally,
I'm in my wardrobe. It's ten minutes still showtime. He
walks in and he goes, hey, how much time do
you have right now? I said about four months. He said,
you have three months more than me, and I froze
because here's someone that I've looked up to in recovery

(21:11):
like immensely, like he is the epitome of what I
believe someone in recovery should be. Like he well, I
had no time to react because like literally I'm like wait,
hold on what and then they're like, okay, a J
showtime and I'm like, holy shit, Like so the whole show,

(21:32):
I'm still I'm singing and dancing, going time out. So
it was like that or did you just I was
early in recovery again, and what you want to do
is what's part of getting back in in the saddle
is to be honest, is to just not let your
ego lead you, just to be you know, humble and

(21:57):
and I just needed him to know I relapsed that,
you know. I didn't think of the implications of him
having to go on stage. I didn't think it would
have rocked them that much. But in retrospect, of course
it rocked you. You don't do what did you do it?
In person? We were backstage before the show at the
Forum and he just his eyes open really big, like

(22:20):
deer in the headlights. I was like, wait a minute,
hold on, it's like find you know, look, this is
what I'm getting at with that is this is how
I I feel most people felt when Dax finally came clean,
because again, well I didn't feel that down but I
I was so shocked when you put someone up on

(22:42):
a pedestal to a certain degree that you that you
idolize and you want to emulate, let's say, their recovery path.
It's look, everyone's path and recovery is different, but it's
the same common goal. That's why there's the fellowship, that's
why we all want to work together. But at the
same time, when you when you put all your eggs
in one basket and you really look up to someone

(23:04):
like a Dax or like a Renee in my case,
and you find out that they've lost their sobriety or
or that they've been living a lie fall from it's
almost like it's almost like it's personal, you know, even
though it's got nothing to do with me. It was
the same type of thing like I was. I just
witnessed it all, but like, yes, he would relapse and

(23:26):
it would hurt me. I take it personal. And Cheryl,
what's interesting is is that when I heard that Dax
had relapsed but had maintained an image of sobriety for
a while, I could relate to that because I kept
going to meetings, right, I kept going to meetings and
acting like I'm not high on a pill, right, And

(23:48):
and then someone in the meeting would say, um, oh,
there was a time where I was still getting high
and going to meetings, and I'm like, oh my god,
they know, they know. So it got to the point
where I wouldn't even go to a meeting anymore because
I felt so ashamed. So I would sneak out of
the house. And I wouldn't sneak out of the house.
I tell my wife, I'm going to a meeting, and
I go sit at a vait vaite bar and just

(24:10):
vape for the amount of time. Look at my watching Okay,
it's time to go back. But she knew, she knew,
and and and what I was going to tell you
about the shame is that when I checked into this detox,
a kid checked in, okay, and he was still like
in the fog, and were in this courtyard and he's

(24:30):
lighting a cigarette. He can't even he can't even light
his cigarette because he's shaking so much. And he kind
of looks over at me and he says, wow, you
look like a guy that used to sponsor me. Right,
and he goes, what's your name? I said Renee and
he goes, wait, Renee from Malibu. I said yeah, and
he goes, what are the He looks at me and
he goes, what are the chances that I would check

(24:51):
into a detox and you're speaking tonight? And I said,
I'm not speaking tonight, I'm a client. And he looked
at me. He goes, there's no way your Renee from Malibu.
They used to sponsor me, he never would have relapsed,
And I said, it's me and I did. So that's
what a j saying you because people knew me as

(25:12):
really being in the center of the heard with sobriety
that when they found out that I relapsed, they're like,
you don't want to believe it. And when I listened
to Tax's podcast, he had people around him that were
worried about him. But they're also, it's hard to believe,
you don't you don't want to Yeah, you don't want

(25:33):
to believe it. Of course, not like they grow to
love you, even if you know them on a personal
level or not. There's like rooting for you in a
way and then like they feel a part of you,
you know, and whether you know each other personally or not.
I used to go to do you feel like that?
You sorry, go ahead, I used to go to a
meeting that he was at and you know, but now yeah,

(25:54):
but now thinking back, that was during the time that
this must be that this must have been going on.
I don't think so, because I think he stopped going
to meetings or maybe maybe I don't know, but intro
I have a question. Now maybe maybe I don't know,
but you know, I just wanted to say that the
way that I can relate, just like you said, you know,

(26:17):
I would do the same thing like we would be
on a TV show or we'd be on like a
radio show. And what I didn't know is I like
I I guess the boys were basically keeping count of
how many actual sober days I had, so you know,
somebody would ask me a j so, how how are
you doing these days? Oh I have I have twenty
eight days sober today, And then like I would feel

(26:38):
all the eyes looking at me like bullshit, dude, you
have like four days, you know, But it's it's it all,
it's it always goes back to that shame, the fear,
the sorry is Berni Brown. She she studied this right,
so she's I would love to have her on one time.

(26:58):
But I also want to ask you guys, like what
triggers I guess a relapse. Is it over being overwhelmed?
Is it the responsibility? Or is it it could be anything? Right?
It's it looks well, it could be anything if you
allow it to be. Um. You know that's how I feel. Um.
You know. I would relapse over a fight. I would
relapse over traffic, I would relapse over whatever because I

(27:19):
wasn't settled inside. There was you know, once once the
disease gets ahold of your balls and it's got you
by the balls. If you don't do what you're supposed
to do, if you don't call your sponsor, if you
don't reach out to somebody, if you don't go to
a meeting, you're destined for failure. It may not happen
then in that moment, But it's consistency, isn't it. Yeah,

(27:41):
it is. You can't slip into complacency. You know. My
my mentor when he told he told me that prayer
and meditation and getting to our meetings. Uh, he said
to me, and you only have to do this twice.
And I was new and I thought, oh, this sounds awesome,
and he goes when you want too and when you
don't want to, right, And so there is a process

(28:06):
that we go through in sobriety where there's this emotional
excavation getting rid of all these secrets and then you
confess them to someone else so that you're not walking
around feeling like you're a mistake. Right, like getting back
to the I made a mistake, I'm not a mistake.
That said. Even once we start to feel the fruits

(28:27):
of our labor, which is peace and serenity, what ends
up happening is sometimes for me it happened and apparently
for Dax as well. Somewhere along the lines, right, my
mentor said, I was either doing something I shouldn't be
doing or not doing something I should have been doing.
For me, okay, so he said, he said, we we

(28:54):
go into discomfort because I'm either doing something I'm not
supposed to be doing, right, or I'm not doing something
I'm supposed to be doing. You got that. So and
then for me, I got into poker and I'm an addict, right,

(29:15):
and my and my mentor warned me, he said, be careful.
We're different than other people. Oh, don't worry about it.
Pablo's his name, Pablo. I got this. I go to
meetings every day. I got too big for my bridges,
as they say, and I and I lost my humility
and respect for addiction. And eventually it wasn't a question

(29:35):
of was I going to relapse. It was just a
matter of time and of what it was. Like. I
am the same way with gambling, with anything. I mean,
I'm addicted to productivity, substance, alcohol, gambling, It's just an ad.
So there are things. If you waim that those let's
call him passions, right, passions, Okay, it sounds nicer passion.

(30:00):
If you aim those in the right direction productivity, it's fine.
But if your productivity is actually costing you your peace,
your serenity, or leading to maybe we're not I'm not
treating myself in terms of the things that I do. Like,
look like, if I'm not sleeping because of productivity, that's

(30:22):
actually self sabotage exactly, And a J like, But put
it this way, Cheryl, if a J night tonight said,
you know what, let's just hit the road and we'll
go play every nice golf course in the United States,
And I don't check in with my group. I don't pray,
I don't meditate. You would say, what's wrong with that?

(30:44):
You're aiming in the right direction. You guys are having fun,
You're not hurting anyone. But what ends up happening is
I start to forget that. When I start, I can't stop.
It's a ticking time bomb, is what it is. Once
you like the fuse, you're saying, Once you like that fuse,
it doesn't it There's no specific timeframe. It could happen
in twenty four hours. It could happen in two months.

(31:06):
You know, I feel like I also feel I feel
that when I, let's say, I flake on something, or
if I'm late and I'm like, well i'm already late,
somebody as well just go to the next you know
what I'm saying, It's like I almost give up all myself. Yeah.
And and that's where we find balance in the program
that we're in is we we talked to each other.
We call each other out if we see someone starting

(31:27):
de stray. We just kind of in a loving way
say hey, you know, we haven't seen you in a while,
you know, jokingly say we're going to send out a
search party. But knowing that we're not jokingly but somewhat seriously.
There's something there's something about the disease of alcoholism that
defaults to loneliness, okay, where you start feeling like you're

(31:48):
alone on this planet and people don't get you. But
when we get together with like minded individuals, you're like,
you know what we're not. I find it fascinating. I
love it. You know. It's we need to remember constantly
and we remind ourselves we're not bad people trying to
get gold. We're interesting people were like, people would like,

(32:09):
I actually find that very interesting. Yeah, And so so
the saying is, we're not bad people trying to get good,
we're sick people getting well, right, And that's and so
getting back to Dex, you know, h it can happen
to anybody. And I want to be clear, very clear,

(32:31):
there's no way a J and I and I'm sure
you too, there's no judgment on what happened to him,
anyone that understands how hard it is to stop and
stay stopped, And it could happen to anybody. It doesn't
matter who you are. It can happen to anyone. It
happened to me, so it's happening to me how many times? Yeah,

(32:51):
for me, My hat's off to him. YEA happened to
take a lot of balls. And especially with a lot
of people don't understand what the definition of alcohol some is.
They still think that you're you're drinking like it's the
and really it's a it's a disease. And some people
actually don't believe that it is a disease. And you know,
I've got to be honest, like, for me, it doesn't
even matter anymore if anyone believes it or not, because

(33:13):
I didn't believe it, and and then I'd end up
back in rehab. And there was a point where I
was finally like, I don't know if it's a disease
or you know, whatever it is, but I'm one whatever,
I fall into the same category. But there are some
people that just say, absolutely say it's not disease. That's

(33:34):
an excuse. You guys are just trying to give yourselves
a little bit of you know how some some people
I've heard comedians talk about a d D right, and
you're going, oh, that's just an excuse for for a
bad kid that doesn't pay attention in school. You know what,
I mean, yeah, they try to put that on me. My, my,
my second time and treatment They're like, let's just test
you for a d D. I'm like why, like really

(33:57):
and they did for people to get Adderall yeah, exactly,
I'm my good job. So you're gonna take me off
the drugs put me on something else. I love it.
So we have we have, We have a beautiful special guest.
We will be right back after a short break. We'll
see you guys soon. By the way, first and foremost

(34:27):
first monkey, sorry, that's what we call each Cheryl. This
is my wife, Rochelle, finally get to meet welcome, my love.
Hey Rochelle, how you doing? Guess what? We were just
talking about one of your favorite people. Yes, and I

(34:47):
don't know the story, so they were just filling filling
me in, I guess. And a J. A J sort
of brought Cheryl up to speed how even the idea
of him and I do No podcast together came to be?
And do you know how it came to be? Do
you remember how it came to be? There? No, it was, well,

(35:07):
it came to be because Dax is the only podcast
that I listened to until now, favorite until um. But
when he was the only one I was listening to,
just listening to the dynamic of him and his co host,
reminding me a lot of Alex and Renee, and they're

(35:29):
kind of dynamic, and I just thought it would be
good for them to get together and maybe hope some
great idea. And then this random broad just, hey, don't
take my stick. Knock knock, knock, knock, knock knock. No,
but you know, that's a great idea. It's a great idea,
and here we are manifested it. Yeah, Now, did you

(35:54):
in your vision did you envision you also being a
gut I'm sure at some point i'd be. I guess
not right at the gate. But well, Renee kind of said,
Renee set you up by by by just leaving a
cliffhanger of my jacket spontaneously bursting into flames. And she

(36:16):
she literally told me that that same night, or the
next or the right next day, She's like, before that
story goes anymore, I need to come on and tell
the real side of that story. So I don't even remember.
So let's back up a little bit, okay, and then
Rochelle can give you tons of questions for you. I'm

(36:37):
just gonna leave the room. You guys yourself, all right,
I'll take over. So where should I start? Kidding? I've
got tons of questions, just like I'm gonna just start.
I just started. I give us a little background. How
did you guys meet for those of you to Heaven? Um,
real hurtly. We met when I was waiting tables at
Saddle Ranch. What was your very first impression? Um? My

(37:01):
first impression was like, wow, cute guy, like beanie tattoos.
And then it was our mutual friend Ryan who was
my manager, who was like, no, that's a j and
I was like, but he said, his name is alex
and so yeah went that route. Okay, you were like Alexander.

(37:21):
So there was a little but um like it, Um no,
I mean he was a backstreet boy initially No, and
then but we had already exchanged phone numbers. Um so,
but then after that he did like text me and
invite me to his house to watch a movie, and
I was like, weird, right? Is that weird? It's super weird?

(37:43):
So I know I would be like you just want
to get in my pants? Like that is just not right?
Went up with other friends and he ended up dating
another bartender that ranch. You forgot that part of the story.
So this is the first time hearing is Ms talking
to you the matter. Our paths crossed again and here

(38:07):
we are. That's it in a nutshell. I love it.
That's so cool. But wait, you guys had also at
that what was that carnival? Yeah? So so my wife,
My wife used to be caval Yes, yes, yeah, so
I performed at a Halloween carnival that, believe it or not,

(38:32):
I used to be a dancer. Rene was at this
carnival with one of my hip hop teachers, and A
J was there with Kevin, all separately, but we were
literally all in the nineteen or twenty at the time,

(38:56):
so long ago. How are her dance moves a really good? No,
I mean from what I remember, Rochelle, you could have
gone on to a career for sure. Thanks for There's
Dancing with the Star season sixty five coming up soon.
Trust me, she would do it. She wants to do
it so bad. Totally. I'm not a star, though, So

(39:22):
what's a star anyway? Your star is shining bright? Okay? Questions?
So has Aj always been very sensitive? Yes, he's always
been very open with his feelings and like he's very
open with his feeling and he's very sensitive. He's very defensive.

(39:45):
Nailed it, man. Rehearsal is going to suck tomorrow. Is
he also controlling a little bit, not like maybe not
controlling like on other people, but more like within himself
that he feels like he knows the formula uh to everything?
Oh of course, really sorry you are, especially when he

(40:07):
doesn't know the answer. I think I think that's men
in general. Though. Yeah, he's like he answers his own
Like I asked him a question, he goes, oh yeah,
and then he said repeats after me. But I'm like,
wait what I said this to him today when we
were warming up before the show. I was like, can
you just not answer like I'm asking you a question
and then like I'm answering it for you, but then

(40:27):
you're also answering, Like it's a weird thing. Yeah, it
was a little different from me, you know, no, but
it's yeah, it is true, like you're a good guy here.
But but that's something that you've that you've started to
really wake up in meet Cheryl, which has been really
good for me. Is that and it's something that even
Renee says and Rochelle says, I get in my own

(40:49):
way more often than not, so like it really is
so hard to just let go and but let go
in definitely like understand though, and which by the way,
I just understood this or not really, I guess I'm
just learning about it is that we're not our thoughts
and that's a really big statements, I think, and that's

(41:10):
hard to separate. I don't even know how to, honestly.
I found out for Michael Singer now just to balance
up the conversation a little bit. And it sounds like
my voice is back. So that's kind of cool because
I think we need that, because we need the soft,
sultry sounds. But but balance it out a little bit.
It's a j and this will sound like I'm blowing smoke,

(41:32):
But he's the most non celebrity celebrity I've ever met.
And I'll be honest with you and that that that's
what I fell in love with in a different way
obviously than than Rochelle fell in love with. You know,
You'll you'll never hear him talk about being a backstreet
boy in your normal conversation, you know, And that to me,

(41:54):
so when I hear control, maybe maybe you and I
have a different dynamic, right because because of the mentor
mentee kind of vibe, maybe you look at me, but
you say the same thing, which is a similar concept
of just getting out. It's not bad. It's not a
bad thing. Yeah, thinking that I'm in control of my
own thoughts, when actually it may be quite the opposite.

(42:17):
And that's the problem. It's not like you don't trust
like I know you trust me, but then you just
don't trust yourself to trust me exactly. Rochelle. Well, he's
saw out of his comfort zone right now. Okay, yes,
her name who? Yeah, trust seems Oh my gosh, you guys.
All I do all day long is have three children,

(42:40):
show me their dance. Get out of here to see
the latest one. Alex Lyric. All they do is watch
this dance, watch this move, and any watch this one.
He's like, I just have to live here. This is
where I live, you know, because I'm just gonna dance
with my wife. I'm just a practice. Rochelle. You should
just carry a number five and every time he does that,

(43:02):
just flip a number five up, d are lower. You
can also do negative five if you'd like, which, by
the way, I didn't even get to say, you guys
were incredible to me, and I felt like the seven's
were a little low. But I know, but you know what,
we started at sixes and so we're slowly climbing up
the ladder. It's fine. The one that got eight tonight.
I'm scared for their future. I just can't help but

(43:25):
think that they're creating this tension drama around the turn
here they come see biscuit. I will say though Sheryl
and I both were because we were like fifth to
last to leave the stage during the elimination, which was
that doesn't matter. I know, I know, but still you're
still standing there. It's a little think of the reverse psychology.

(43:49):
It's a good thing because then makes people believe who
are watching at home, they're not listening to Tyra's saying
that it's not in any particular order, but they're thinking, shit,
we're not giving him enough votes. Maybe we need to
vote for our boys. If you guys were fourth, four
h yeah, so fourth, yeah, and then there was three
aft das right, So that's so sometimes I leave you
to the last if like they you know, look, people

(44:10):
think that they may be up. So Rochelle, I can't
help but think how often I've thought Rochelle should have
a purple heart for putting up with, Like she should
be awarded the purple heart, you know. And but being serious, UM,

(44:34):
tell us a little bit of what it's been like, you,
you know, having to get your hopes up that this
time was the time, because I also put people through
hell that wanted to believe I was in it to
win it. Because one thing a J and I have
in common is we're pretty good at trying to tell

(44:54):
you how it is when it's not absolutely And so
tell us a little bit about this this time around, like,
how has it been different this time? What have you
seen that's different from all the other times. But just
to clarify, you guys have been together for how many years?
Just so that everyone knows that ten it's maybe been

(45:16):
ten is it ten years? Actually it's eleven eleven, Yeah,
it's eleven years. Next you'll be ten years married. I'll
be nine years married this year. Yeah. Yeah, So you've
been through it with it, a J. Then you've been
through the ups and downs quite a few times. Well,
we've been through it and I didn't um when we
first started dating. I didn't obviously, I knew he was,

(45:40):
you know, he had the reputation of having gone to
rehab and stuff early two thousand's, but um, I didn't
know that he was like knee deep in his addiction
at that point. I'll never forget a friend UM asked
me one day. She was like, Rochelle, does he go
to the bathroom a lot? And I was like, yeah,

(46:02):
it's weird, right, And she's like, what is the water running?
And I'm like, yeah, weird right, and she's like, he's
doing coke. He's not going to the bathroom. And I
had no idea. You know, I mean, I laugh about
it now, but at the time, I still run the
water now, but that's to blow my nose because so,

(46:25):
you know, it was all it was all really new
to me. Um. Renee wasn't even in the picture at
the time because him and Alex hadn't really been talking
because of something that they went through. And so when
I when you guys were already sorry, was this when
you were married or just started dating? It just started dating,
and so I was kind of learning now that I

(46:50):
was going along. So in the beginning, you know, Um,
you do you think that okay, Well, he says it's
only problem if he can't drink Jack Daniels anymore. So
it's just vodka. So okay, well I'll drive you to
go get the vodka because I don't want you drinking
and driving and Um going through his pockets flushing his

(47:12):
drugs down the toilet. Um Philly first saw it for
the very first time. How what did you How did
you react? How did you feel? Did you go to
a j right away? Or I don't, I don't know.
I mean, I don't right I did it right in
front of her one time when and I think in

(47:34):
her mind she probably thought, oh, it's it's just a
recreational thing. There's there's no problem. Yeah, clearly there was.
It was a daily thing, but you know, it was
daily and then it um Yeah, and then it got
to the point where it was like I would we'd

(47:54):
have we'd have friends over for cards, and he would,
you know, keep going to the kitchen, and every time
he'd go to the kitchen, I go after and like
jump out some more of the alcohol and pour some
water in thinking I was like controlling and helping Um.
And it wasn't until about like a year or year
and a half into it that I realized, like, whoa,

(48:15):
I'm really enabling. I am totally mad. Would you get
mad when she did that? Well, I didn't. I didn't
really know she was doing anything like that because I
was so far down the rabbit hole. There was no
there was no no like ray of sunlight in any way.
In Rochelle, when you say you know you're trying to
figure it out, it's like the disease of addiction is

(48:38):
such a weird thing that you can't apply reason too
that sometimes even us as addicts, uh, sometimes have a
hard time wrapping our head around when a friend of
ours goes out right, It's like, why would you do that?
Even though we've done it lots of times? Right, I
explained to Norman's that's what we call people that can

(48:59):
have martini and sip it all night and they could
suck normies normies, right, they're not addicts. And and and
I've talked to some normies and I go, look, I
get it. I get that what we do makes no sense.
It would be like you and I going out to dinner, right,
and I eat shellfish and my throat swells up and

(49:21):
you have to down nine one right, and then oh
my god, you're like, you almost died. Next time we're
out to dinner, I'm like, oh, I think I'll have
the shellfish. You know what I mean. That's how ridiculous. Yeah,
but like something that that's exactly what it is. Yeah,
a really good analogy. It makes no sense because even

(49:41):
to us, like even when I used to smoke, and
I would look over another car and i'd see someone
having a cigarette, I would think that's gross, while I
had one in my hand. Go yes, go ahead, No, no,
I was gonna say, you know, because it's it's a
it's a whole different point of view when you're the

(50:03):
one watching someone drowning, when you've helped get them out
of the deep end, and then you look the other
way and it's like, what the hell are you doing
your back in the deep The whole alcoholism thing we're talking.
It's a disease. And this might I might get some
you know, some hate for this or whatever, but you

(50:24):
think about like somebody who has diabetes or even cancer.
It's like, you know, a diabetic needs their insulin, a
cancer patient needs there their chemo. The only thing an
addict has is abstinence, is to abstain, and I don't
know about like you, Sheryl, or anybody else. That's like,

(50:47):
for me, if there's chocolate cakes on the counter, I'm
going to obsess over it. I'm going to obsess until
I can have a piece, because but then it's self
sapotage for me, because once I have a piece, I
get a headache and then I get like a sugar
over right, Like sugar is so terrible for me, But
my willpower failed me every time. So I can't imagine

(51:07):
trying to function in a world where so much of
of our social life and all these things revolve around alcohol.
But she she gets chronic migraines, like debilitating migraines, and
like what she just said, you know, like it's come

(51:28):
to a point now where if there's chocolate cake on
the counter, I know what the end result is going
to be. I have to sleep with her puking in
the bathroom because her migraine gets to be that freaking bad.
But then, but then there's a brief moment where you
kind of sit back and go, well, I can't really

(51:49):
feel sorry for you because you're doing it to yourself.
And I know she got there with me so many
times where it's like, you know what you're gonna You're
gonna do what you're gonna do. I can't flicking, but
it sucks as the as the other person in the relationship.
I'm sure to have to sit back and go I
do care, but I almost have to act like I
don't care because I can't change. Yeah, you have, you

(52:11):
cannot enable. But then there's a fine line of tough love,
right and enabling and just happening is not going to
kill me and you might not wake up one day
from right now. You're you're right about that, but but
I like that you drew the similarity though, do you
know what I mean? Where something kind of yells your

(52:32):
name right and and it you know, Oscar Wilde said,
the only thing I can't resist is temptation, and so
for us, we kind of have to stay out of
that area, right, Like I've told people, Look, I've I've
I've talked to people about sobriety, and people trying to
get sober have a little bit of time. They say, well,

(52:52):
I've got some Zanex at home just in case things
get rough, And I tell them, look, if I had
one pill of Zanna in a glass case at my house,
that said break in case of emergency. By the time
I get home, I'm going to be so anxious that
I have to break that glass, do you know it?

(53:13):
And so you know, for us, we constantly it is
it is, it is for us. You're absolutely right, and
and that's why you know. I was going to ask you, um,
Rachelle that this time, because I know I've known a
j for a very long time. I see, I could

(53:36):
feel the difference this time, So I want I wanted
to know. And so what's different? Well, have you been sober?
How long have you been sober? Almost ten months? And
that is the longest she's been sober since we've been together. Um.
It was, well, you would come home from seeing Shanaia

(53:59):
Twain in Vegas and I told you he smelled terrible. Um,
And of course I knew right away, and we had
a commitment for a friend that we had to bail
because I was just so live. I wasn't going with
him smelling like that. And um, but one of the

(54:21):
girls mentioned something to him about my daddy. Yeah, it
was funky, like he smelled terrible, and Lyric said something
about the way that he smelled and something in that
Um that resonated with him somehow, and um, it was interesting.
I don't ever, I don't never check up on him.

(54:43):
I don't ask days, I don't ask his security. It's
just not my it's his journey, it's not mine. I
have to where were you? What I was gonna say
when you said you don't check up on him? But
what happened last week? And how funny that was? He
came over with another sober friend of ours to watch

(55:03):
the UFC fight and he brought three Mexican coakes. No
you told me this, remember, yeah, And like he left
a freaking bottle open around the counter and I'm like, uh,
you know. So then Rochelle comes home and she takes
a picture and said it to me, and I sent
it to him like nice thing to come home to
after being But you did you know in your heart?
Because you know in your heart as a woman to

(55:24):
a woman, right, we know we just II, there's not
a time that I don't know. She immediately takes it back. Yes,
and when you do know, let's say when that when
it did happen, how did did you feel like at
your heart drop or was it like a well, it's
just it's just It's always scary because you never know

(55:47):
how it's going to end and or what's going to happen.
We've had some some stuff go down where like things
have been said to family or friends that was inappropriate
it and some relationships have you know, been hurt by
that you just broken up. Um. We've never broken up

(56:10):
over it. UM. He's gone to like sober living and
we've had like some really rough patches. Last summer was
really rough where I was kind of at the end
of my rope and he UM, we did some really
intense therapy UM with our same therapist we've had for

(56:31):
ten years or something now, we've had the same therapist UM.
And he even even he said it was just so
sad that our our relationship was riddled with tragedy. It
was like so depressing. But there's also been a lot
of really great things. But Renee, back to your question, UM,
I don't know where he wasn't torn South America, and
it was just like he was having breakfast every morning,

(56:54):
was like the band and the crew and his security
and he was working out and it's just there's just
this clarity, UM. And we called every morning to say
good morning to the girls. And like just such a
different pattern of behavior, and then you know, the lockdown
happened and you guys started your meeting, and I have

(57:18):
I thought it was going to blow over rather quickly. No,
I wish Alex going to doing the your guys meeting
every day. I didn't think that that was gonna last.
I've never seen him you're talking about, Sorry, the meeting
meeting just for people that just don't understand today. Sorry,

(57:42):
today we were having it, you know, and we can
all see each other. Then all of a sudden, a
j logs on and he's in his Genie outfit and
it's just like so surreal, Aladdin. Sorry, so he's you're right,
But it was like if you had told me, you know,

(58:03):
not that long ago, that we'd be having a zoom
meeting and that he would take time out in his
costumes and then log on just to check in, just
to feel like he's tethered to the mother ship somehow,
so he's not just floating in space, you know. Because
it did get bad, right Rochelle, like at the Las
Vegas situation that the jacket catching fire like all around,

(58:29):
but was bad from what um I know, I know
it's Vegas. I know the obvious reasons, but it must
be a trigger. It's the trigger. It's the lions. Then, um,
it's the whole environment out there, and you know, let's
biggest selling residency ever living no pun intended larger than life.

(58:51):
Like it makes sense. I totally get it. It makes sense.
But it was a disaster from day one. I mean
he asked a j today. I was like, what do
you have to ever go back on tour? Because like
if this was you know what I mean, Like, I'm like,
why go on tour? Like, you know, it's a trigger.
Do you know what? Obviously he has to do. No,

(59:12):
here's here's the thing, Uh, Cheryl, when you want this thing,
you could go back to Vegas. He would not be
the very first artist ever to be in Vegas sober
doing a residency. So it's a matter of where you
are do you really want this? Right? Like I've mentioned before,

(59:34):
you know, I lost a brother to suicide and I
found him, and you would think, right, you would think
that's about as good an excuse to have a stiff
drink that day, right, But because of the program and
my friends, I didn't have to, right, I didn't relapse
and then a second brother died, and the program kept

(59:56):
kept me alive. Both times I had to tell my
parents the tragic news, but I didn't even think about
drinking over that stuff. I didn't relapse until I started
doing something I shouldn't have been doing that for me,
I got addicted to poker and that led me down
that road, you know, and we all have to hit
a certain place. The day, we were giving a cake

(01:00:17):
to Nikki. But Nikki is one of our crew who
who's part of Circle the Wagons, and she was celebrating
her third year I think was. And so this was
before the pandemic, and we we had to drive to
Culver City and A J showed up and I was
really surprised because he said he was going to show up,
but I just didn't believe he was going to. To

(01:00:38):
be honest with you, he shows up and and he
looks at me and he goes, I'm done, bro, And
I said, kind of, you know, a little eye rolled,
like yeah, I've heard this before. And he goes, no,
look at me, I'm done. I will do whatever it
takes to stay sober. And I was like yeah, And
I was like, okay, let me test this. I said,

(01:00:58):
be at my house tomorrow at five at six o'clock
a j What made you want to do that? Like stop?
Like what why that time? Like like my wife said,
when I when I heard what my daughter said, it
it's struck a real, real, real vulnerable nerve that like

(01:01:21):
now it now it had finally crossed into the part
of my life that I that I never ever dreamed
or wanted it to ever. Like Rochelle always told me
back in the day when it was just Eva, when
she was a baby. You know, if you come home
and smelling like alcohol, either don't come home or you
can't have any contact with your daughter. You can't physically

(01:01:43):
hold her, you can't put her to bed if you
smell like alcohol. So you know, my kids never saw
me drunk still to this day. But the fact that
they smelled something that didn't smell like Daddy, that that
sucked the worst it's it's ever felt. Because Rochelle, Rochelle

(01:02:05):
and I have been able to thank God, you know,
she was doing a lot of alan and stuff for
a while. She's been really busy being an amazing mom.
So but like we can communicate, we can call our
couples therapists we can hopefully talk. We've got really good communication, thankfully.
But my kids, it's the it's that's the it's the

(01:02:28):
it's the polar opposite. Like, yes, we have good you know,
talk time and whatever, but they don't understand, you know,
and if Daddy comes home not right. I just I
don't want them to ever see me that way. But
they do understand that, like my dad, I came home
to my dad always being wasted, and um, I'm glad
actually my mom and dad divorced when they did when
I was two years old, because if I were to

(01:02:49):
continue to be around that, my life would be very different. Yeah. Absolutely, Well,
he's never come home drunk, he's never done drugs around
the kids, Like, there's never I refused to allow that.
And he's not allowed to come home because he's not
gonna disrupt what's happening here. Like I'm not gonna pack

(01:03:11):
up and take the kids and go somewhere because Daddy
can't keep his ship together. He just can't come home
until and she and she's and she's told me, she's
told me a couple of times. Yeah, she told me
a couple of times that, you know, when I had
my really really bad night in Las in Las Vegas,
where I was even drunk during the show. Um like

(01:03:36):
it was bad. Like she literally was like I have
some like deep deep thinking that I need to do,
Like I don't know if I want to continue this.
I remember you and I talked for the chell and
I believed you when you said it. You're like, I'm
starting to get scared that I'm can cut it off now.

(01:03:57):
I'm starting to see your life out side of being
with a J. And I believed you, and I think
that you finally believed her too, because she had gotten
to that point. I remember very clearly that I was like,
you know what, I think you may have used up
your last I was hysterically. I was inconsolably hysterically crying

(01:04:20):
thirty minutes before showtime in Vegas, telling the guys I
have to go home. You have to do the show
without me. I have to save my marriage. I have
to leave now. And they were like, like I locked
myself in my car. They were like they were like
oh yeah, and they and they were like, dude, just
pull it together, just this show and then we can

(01:04:43):
all talk. But like I wanted to just jump ship
and leave and hopefully not lose my my family. Well,
so that's interesting because that was at the beginning of Vegas,
right after Lyric was Veas Vegas seven, Jean, right right,
that was the beginning of seventeen when it was terrible

(01:05:08):
and then Renee you're talking about, and I let it
kind of go because I really didn't have to deal
with a lot of it because you were gone so much.
So it was like he's gone. I'm here, I'm good
with the kids, works out, taking care of myself, taking
care of my girls. Whatever he does, he does. You know, um,
pray he comes back and you know. But but you

(01:05:33):
know what, babe, I'll be the first to say it
because this is part of the process, and this is
part of me, me being being honest with myself and
being honest with the people that I care about. When
Lyric was born, I got drunk that night. I was
supposed to go back and spend the night at the
hospital with my wife, and instead I got drunk in

(01:05:56):
the hotel lobby the night that Lyric was born. Now out,
when Ava was born, I was there, I was you know,
I was present, but Lyric I wasn't. And why why
do you think? So here's here's here's what I mean.
I was active, I was terrified, free, I was so

(01:06:17):
many things, none of them are are at all excusable.
But again, you know he is this part of the process, right, yeah,
he wasn't you know he was not in it too.
When he hadn't gotten to that place where he said
the way he looked at me and said I'm done.
He was still trying to figure out how to get
away with things which I'm guilty of. And what you

(01:06:40):
do is you go, I remember, sorry here we again,
no no, no, no, no, no, I remember. Right. We've
talked about this where our truth used to for us, mean,
did you just believe what I said? And if you
believed what I said, I just told the truth. That's
the kind of due at all. But but an addict

(01:07:05):
trying to still get away with it. It's like you
get off to you call, you make the call, you're
like and then and then you hang up, you go,
I think they bought it, Like okay, so we're still
living in the truth. That's you don't believe, you don't
believe it. In fact, what ends up happening like when
he brings up lyric, guess what happens when he drinks

(01:07:29):
and it's the birth of his second child. There's a
voice inside this as I'm such a piece of ship, right,
So I better drink more, and I better hurry up
and do it fast because I need to quite that
voice that makes me feel that's we're talking about it.
But then if you have to love that voice, so

(01:07:52):
you have to well you know that person. Do you
know what it is, Cheryl? It's what he started finally doing,
which is going through reading, like us, reading together, trying
to like understand what we're up against. Right, But none

(01:08:14):
of none of that book will make any sense to
you if you don't want to change, right, If you
don't want to change, there's nothing in that book that's
for you. Right, You're still trying to figure out how
to get away with it. But finally he got to
that place and I believed him because you know, I mean, yes,

(01:08:34):
I rolled my eyes a little bit and I said,
be at my house at six o'clock tomorrow. And I'm
still going, God, I hope he shows up. But still wondering,
you know, Rochelle, you know what I'm talking about. What's
going to come up? And I don't want to lean
into the punch right because he said this before and
we'll see and then lo and behold, five thirty he's

(01:08:58):
at my house and I'm like, oh my god, punctual. Yeah,
I hate to be late, especially back on track with
the book and a journal. And yeah, he brought the book,
he brought a penny, brought paper, and we sat and
we started working together. And the whole time I'm thinking, God,

(01:09:19):
I've waited so many years for him, and Rochelle, I'm
sure you share share those feelings, like this is really happening.
And since that day, I swear he I know you've
seen the difference. Rachelle, and I wouldn't say this because
this would not be good for his sobriety, for me
to bes and enable him. If he wasn't doing well,

(01:09:42):
I would say, dude, you're you're slipping, you know what
I mean. But that's not the case. Like I said,
all of a sudden, we've got Aladdin in our group.
But I also I tried to make sure he goes
and he does these meetings. She tells me that he
tells me that she is sure, is like She'll be like,
oh shit, it's four thirty, go hop on your meeting

(01:10:03):
for like twenty minutes and then come back and we'll
get back to work. But I just thank you. That's
that's that, by the way, that's the most that's the priority.
It's not to learn a samba. Come on, yeah, no,
it is sober. If he's not sober, he's not. No,
he's not. But I just wanted to say something to

(01:10:26):
what you said, because I who's you? You renee knock knock?
Who you? That's right? Um No, Like like I shared before,
I think it was the first the first podcast or
the second whatever. That the one. The one person I
was always the most terrified of being being honest with
was my wife. Um and in the in the past

(01:10:48):
almost ten months, the honesty even something as trivial as
buying a pair of sneakers, where I would literally keep
the box in my trunk, wait till she go to sleep,
bring the shoe box in the house, or like it's sneakers, dude,
Why because because I give them a hard time about it.

(01:11:10):
But but it's but it's the but it's but it's
also more so the principle of just be honest. It's
a pair of sneakers. Why would you lie and say
that you bought them a month ago when you eat,
like when you just got them today, Like why now,
it's amazing, you know, kind of like in relation to
what we do, Cheryl, where like, it's amazing how much

(01:11:32):
easier it is to move around the floor when my
frame is is damn spot on and we're locked in.
It's less effort on both ends. It's the same thing
now in my relationship with my wife, where if I'm
being rigorously honest, everything in our life seems to be
so much easier. It's not heavy, and it's it's just

(01:11:52):
it's just the way that it should be. And you know,
but it took me what ten years to get here,
eleven years to get here, you know, it takes takes
unfortunate exactly. And then Rene, if I ever ask questions
that are not um like the right way to say something,
please correct me. No, No, you've you've been spot on
and everything you say. I just I want to be

(01:12:14):
sensitive to everybody, you know, like total. I just don't
want to ever make anybody ever feel uncomfortable. To just
be clear, just let me know. Of course we would.
That's how that's what this shows about. It's just us
all being real, right, Okay, So we've been telling you

(01:12:40):
guys that we're going to tell you the full gene
jacket spontaneous combustion story. Well you need a little context though,
before we go into the gene jacket story. Uh. Okay.
So it's two thousand eighteen, November nine, eight or nine,
the night of the Wolvesy Fire when all of southern

(01:13:01):
California caught on fire. Okay, we were evacuated from the house.
We didn't take a single item, and we were evacuated
at eleven twenty and by one thirty our house was
on the news because our backyard was up in flames.
And by four am we had found out that our
neighbor's house has burned down. So we didn't know if

(01:13:23):
we had a house. We had no idea what was
happening at your house? Yes, this is our house currently
in spoiler alert, our house burned down A sorry one. No, no,
it's okay, but um, but he was so disconnected from
everything that was happening, like I didn't really try to

(01:13:45):
help get us a hotel to stay in. And then
as soon as we got to the hotel, he fell
asleep because he had to leave at eleven thirty for
Vegas the next morning, which was you know, Friday, and
then so I really don't hear from him much. Friday
he called me before the show, and that was normally
you know, thirty. I never really heard from him after that, obviously, right,

(01:14:07):
he's not going to call me after the show at
eleven thirty or any time after that because he's been drinking.
And so the next morning he calls me unusually early,
which when I say that, I mean around like noon.
Oh that's early, because he would normally not call to
like four or five, right, So that's how you know,

(01:14:28):
like he's not well. Right, Um, So he calls me
at noon and he tells me, oh my gosh, fires
following me everywhere? Like what are you talking about? Fires
following you? And he's like, I don't know. I was
in my room and I could smell smoke and I
went into the like what would you call it the

(01:14:50):
room or whatever, the living room room? And he's like,
am I pengeane jackets on fire? And I'm like, so
clearly up, Savot. Let me back check a little bit
when he when I entered the phone and just the
way he said, hey, I knew he wasn't sober like
I knew he was wasted. So then he starts telling

(01:15:12):
me his jacket spontaneously combust, you know, And then the
story really doesn't go anywhere else after that, because I'm
just like you trying to pull on me right now,
like I don't even know if we have a house yet.
You're calling me drunk or high or both, and then

(01:15:33):
you're telling me you started a fire inside your hotel room,
like started on its own. But Steus, which actually did
your actual jacket get Was it on fire? Yes? No,
my jacket was on fire. I threw it in my shower.
It was destroyed. How do you remember how I it's

(01:15:54):
it's all slowly came came back to me. Literally. I
was drunk and I was having a cigarette, and I
put the cigarette on like the bar counter, and I
went to use the bathroom. And when I came back,
the cigarette was like half half ashy. Obviously it had

(01:16:15):
gotten on my jacket somehow, because I just left it
there right next to my jacket, and it caught on fire.
But I didn't, you know. It's some of these things
will will in time come back to me. Some of
them will never come back to me. This one has
come back to me, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I
set it on fire because I left my cigarette on there.

(01:16:35):
So I get a call. You swore, well, first of all,
real quick, but you swore you it just it wasn't
a cigarette, wasn't anything. He swore, it just started on fire.
And at that moment, which is impossible, I said, I'm
not doing this. I am hanging up. Do not call
me back. I'm not doing this. I'm in a hotel

(01:16:58):
with the same handle. Well, I mean it depends. Sometimes
they don't say anything. Sometimes I fight with him. It
just depends on the you know. But like we literally
I needed to go to Target to my clothes to
bite diapers. I had no clue what was happening, you know,
with our home and all those things. And so we
um enough on him and he tried to call me

(01:17:20):
back like a hundred times. And then so I get
a call, right, and it's the first time, and all
the time I've known him that I ever heard him drunk.
I had never heard him drunk. It was always after
the fact. I'd get a phone call from someone, I'd
drive out to Vegas. By the time I saw him,
he had had worn off. Right. It's the first time

(01:17:42):
I hear him drunk and he goes and he's crying
and he's like, I need your help. My wife is
going to leave me. And I'm like, what happened? And
he goes, okay, so I was asleep. This is what
you told me. I was asleep. And next thing, you know,
people are knocking down the door because there's a fire
in the room. And I said, well, what happened? You go,
I don't know my fired. I mean, my jackets just

(01:18:04):
caught on fire. And I said, wait, hold on, stop
one second. Jackets don't just catch on fire. And he goes,
I swear to you, bro, I had nothing to do
with it. It just lit on fire. And then I said,
a j M, how much have you been drinking? And
he says, I haven't been drinking. And I'm like, a
j I've known you for a long time. And then

(01:18:26):
he says to me, um, no, no, He says, I
had a hard, hard mix last night, dude, trust me,
just lemonade with like and last night. And and he's
still slurring his words right, but but but look to
get serious for a second. He was terrified that he

(01:18:48):
had gone too far. You know, he was terrified. And
that's when I drove out there, right, Rochelle, Wasn't that
the time, I don't think so, because it was during
the Hols, and I think about a different Oh, you're right,
we were you were helping somebody else. Yeah, and we
were evacuating from here as well. You're right, and he
had it was it was just a mess. And and

(01:19:13):
so Rochelle, you're such a strong woman. First of all,
I admire you, like really, I can't even actually, I
don't even know if i'd be able to even be
a fraction of what you are, um if the roles
were reversed in my marriage, you know. So that's I
just have so much respect for you. And it really

(01:19:33):
is like I'm just like I have chills, like it's
he's lucky to have you and Vera. And I have
to tell you it's not lost on a j now
because he constantly says to me now and I know
I sound like them trying to be like Chuck Woolery
or something right now, but but honestly, he appreciates you
so much, Rochelle. He does thank you. I know he doesn't,

(01:19:57):
you know, Like, long story short, she wasn't ready to
get sober. I wasn't ready to leave him over it yet.
And you know, now we're on the other side, and
now she's ready to leave me now that I'm soberly.
You know, now we're finally on the other side of
all of that. And and I I even warned um

(01:20:21):
a J. I said, you know, and just because like
I am an addict as well, and I and I
am more of like an adrenaline junkie. I love like
that high. I like what the show, for instance, gives me,
and then like the high and then the low and
then the rollercoaster ride, and then the show ends, and
then there's like this come down that's very similar to
you know. So I actually already told a J about this.
Whether or not you make it to the end or not,

(01:20:42):
it's it's irrelevant, like you're gonna feel like you just
had a crazy high for like two and a half months,
like a bender, and then you just stop right your
life stops, and you're just like what the heck is
going on? So I just wanted to make that just
as an open thing, like that's to feel for everybody,
whether or not you you're an addict or not. Right, Yeah,

(01:21:03):
So but this is a drug in a way like
every I mean it is and again the healthier drug.
What I wanted to say was like bringing it back
full circle around, which is like, I'm so glad you guys.
I'm so glad you hung in the rochelle because it
would have sucked. But to watch him get sober somewhere else,

(01:21:25):
do you know what I mean? Like you hung in
there long enough. I'm so glad to see him sober.
And I've told him this several times. Look early sobriety,
and make no mistake about it, he's an early sobriety. Okay,
early sobriety is such a difficult time. It really is.
Your insecurities are through the roof, right, and I could

(01:21:48):
get Look, I'll give you like when does that end?
Like honestly, like your your first year, year and a half,
you're still trying to find your balance. You feel so secure,
yourself conscious. And I'll give you an example of it,
like when I had like around the same time you have.
I had a girlfriend back then and we're watching the

(01:22:09):
Discovery channel, right, and it was about Albert Einstein and
she said, Wow, Einstein was amazing, And my first thought was, oh,
you want to come, don't you right, that's it, that's
the level of insecurity. But but yet, you know, they
tell us don't do any big things in your first year.

(01:22:30):
You know, it's like, Okay, I'm going on Dancing with
the Stars, or like we we got pregnant with our
first and I was like sixty something days sober and like,
but you know, but it's different we got I got
pregnant with between the thirty days. Ah, it was care

(01:22:52):
like that three hour window, literally a three hour window
actually physic you know, I will say, um, I owe
a lot to actually your wife, Renee Britt. She took
me to a lot of my first alan On meetings

(01:23:12):
and she's so does so. Alanon is basically a A
for It's the same tool step program but for loved
ones of members of a A or n A or
anything like that. So, like, my first alan On meeting
was probably one of the saddest ninety minutes of my life.

(01:23:35):
Like I cried the whole time. I was too nervous
to share. Um, but I just realizing that this was
like my reality was something that was really hard. But
then at the same time, it was really beautiful because
I was in a room with probably fifty strangers who
I felt like, while these people understand me, these people

(01:23:56):
get me. They they're going through the same thing going
through and and that's why we're doing this podcast honestly too.
It's just because like for people who have no clue
or just maybe you know, have like a feeling maybe
I should be good to going to like an len On,
or maybe I just don't want to. This is the reason.
So I just want to thank you so much for
opening up, because it really is like some people, you know,

(01:24:19):
you just don't know, you know, you don't know, or
you feel shameful or you feel like you just can't
talk about it. Um, but this is, uh, this is
so powerful. It really is even just for me, like
it really is. I feel Rochelle and I agree with
everything Cheryl just said, because you're absolutely right. People people
are out there wondering, you know, what's wrong with me

(01:24:43):
my normal? Yes? Yes, yes you know. But am I
the only one that feels like Rochelle should get like
marching band and fireworks and yes yes you deserve every
dance to be dedicated to you on dancing you shouldn't
have and electric light parade like we had tonight. On
the show. You should get your own. That was beautiful

(01:25:05):
and Tira's dress for sure. That lights up Babe, babe monkey.
So before we we have to say goodbye and wrap up,
I happened to be perusing through some some random questions
that our producers sent us in an email, and I
there's only one. There's only one that I that I

(01:25:27):
want to ask you, and if you answer it, great,
If not, fine, But I just think it's it's the
one that's stuck out. So kiss Mary or kill oh?
The arrest the Backstree boys who kiss Mary or kill Oh? No,

(01:25:48):
no pressure, kiss marry or kill so but not you
know I'm one of the Backstrey boys. So you could
put me in there as a kiss marry or kill
Can I answer that question? No? No name? Okay, I
don't even know their name. I would kiss Howie because
he has the nicest lips. Mary. I would marry Kevin.

(01:26:17):
Who did you kill? You? Got me? Brian or Nick?
I would kill you? You probably would. Yeah, I would
help you. I'm kidding. I had to. I had to.
I love you and thank you. Thank you Risha in person.

(01:26:39):
In person, you can teach me how to do makeup
because your map looks mammules. Thank you. I'm down. Let's
do it good night. She's the queen of the cat eyes.
She does the best cat I you'll ever see ever. Aj,
You're so lucky. I'm very lucky. Yeah, you're very lucky.
Her so much, Yeah, her not so much. I'm lucky.

(01:27:04):
Jury is still out, you know. Well. Uh, first of all,
I want to say thank you to my amazing wife
for being a guest on our show. Um, Baby, I
love you, don't. I do not know how you do it,
but you do it and you do it with class. Um.
I want to thank obviously my squad. I love my girl, Cheryl.

(01:27:29):
We did great tonight. Let's keep it going. She's giving
me the thumbs down, but that's awesome. At the bus,
Captain Mucus over here, Renee is uh dude, love you man,
Um and listen everybody out there. You know what. Everybody
stays strong, stay positive, stay happy. It's one step at
a time, one day at a time, and uh, we'll

(01:27:52):
see you guys next week. Follow up on her l
or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. M HM