June 23, 2022 • 28 mins
Queen of the Con host Johathan Walton has uncovered new evidence that proves... while Lizzie Mulder was pleading guilty to scamming more than a dozen people in Orange County out of $1.5 million, she was also scamming a federal judge and two federal prosecutors. They just had no idea. But now that they know - will Lizzie Mulder face any consequences?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'd like to hear from you, counsel that I'd like
to hear from the victims, And I've got a couple
of questions for you, Miss Mulder con artists Lizzie Mulder
pleads guilty in federal court to scamming her victims out
of more than one point five million dollars using a
series of elaborate confidence tricks, impersonations, fake bank accounts, forged documents,
(00:26):
and voice changing technology. She gets a five year prison sentence,
and her victims tell a packed court room just how
devastating Lizzie mulder scams are on their lives and livelihoods.
Are you in business today at all? You're not. She
crippled us badly. We almost lost our own homes, damaged
(00:48):
our relationships with our staff, our family, and each other.
We are facing bankruptcy because of her. Her scams put
you out of business. Lizzie, you're a horrible person. You
have no regard for anyone but yourself, and it will
be no surprise that you'll try and present yourself as
a wife and mother of the year. But that could
not be further from the truth. And it turns out
(01:09):
Lizzie Malder is super into head games. What happened in
the hospital haunts me to this state. Her actions completely
stick in me. She has this need to be more
part of my life events than I was. Other victims.
Lizzie scams from two thousand and eleven to two thousand sixteen.
She stole over eight hundred and fifty three thousand dollars
(01:30):
end up losing a lot more than money. I lost
my twenty year marriage. I believe the disagreements with my
husband over the financial problems created by Lizzie ruined our marriage.
But when Lizzie Malder addresses the court, she sounds almost repentant.
As a mother two young daughters, I feared that my
actions will cause them pain and they will never forgive me.
(01:52):
As a wife, I have a fear that my marriage
will not last the unknown punishment. Most of all, I
fear that I will not be able to repay my
restitution fast enough of the needs of the victims, and
it's a human I have fear that my legacy and
life will be that the good that I did in
life will not outshine all this bad. So Lizzie Mulder
goes to federal prison in January, and she's released after
(02:17):
serving four years. But guess what, Lizzie has got a
big secret she's keeping from the judge and from federal prosecutors.
I definitely think that's a violation of the agreement. If
I was still there, like if I was still to
kiss you off, I would go to the Boston say
this is something we need to open up. Yes you do.
(02:46):
I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con
The o C Savior Episode nine total bullshit. Let me
apologize to all the view folks, but we would have
(03:07):
taken about the same amount of time with numerous interruptions.
Right now, we're going from the beginning again without any interruptions.
The sentencing hearing for con artists Lizzie Maulder is unusually
long and gut wrenching. There were tears. I mean, it
was just I've just never seen the sort of devastation
like that where just small businesses were just completely destroyed.
(03:29):
It's something former federal prosecutor Paul LeBlanc will never forget.
These small businesses are the lifeblood of the community. Most
sentencing hearings are twenty minutes. This sentencing hearing for Lizzie
Maulder was like the gone with the wind of sentencing
hearings because it went on for hours. It did and
(03:50):
drama and tears, and it was the judge got so invested,
and that surprised me because judges are jaded, judges have
seen every kind of bad thing under the sun. But
Judge Carter really seemed to care and want to know
more and kept asking questions. Eventually, I want to know
what the money was spent for, how much personal aggrandizement,
(04:13):
horse riding or plastic surgery. Judge Carter has a lot
of experience on the bench and I've had cases in
front of him. He takes his time and he's thorough
and meticulous. But here's where things get really interesting. During
the victim impact statements. After causing me hundreds of thousands
(04:35):
of dollars and damages several times throughout the hearing, destroying
my business, harming my relationships, victims like Laurence Gisha from
the Toni and Guy hair Salon start mentioning the fact
that Lizzie brought her herself at home this year. Home
ver Samons told me about the home um down the
(04:57):
street from her parents. I don't know anything much else
about it. Print shop owner Mike Cochrane brings it up
to she bought a house. Here's a picture of its
beautiful track home. I wish I could afford that home.
I can't qualify for that loan right now. I have
no ability to buy that property. So the fact that
(05:18):
Lizzie Mulder buys a house while she's in the process
of pleading guilty to scamming a dozen victims out of
one point five million dollars kind of just sits there
in open court and eventually gets forgotten about until I
start digging into the Lizzie Mulder case for this podcast.
(05:40):
Now we know after she had bought her house, she
then goes in and signs a plea bargain confessing that
she has no assets. Forensic accountant gen Rodriguez is a
real stickler for details. Remember she's the one who assists
Detective Jordan Miracian early on in his investigation. And Rodriguez
(06:01):
is really kind of the person that helped keep me
organized and also helped explain that scheme because that was
tricky to follow. It's very tricky. Well, it appears Lizzie
Mulder has another very tricky scheme up her sleeve, and
at a time when everyone least suspects it. You uncovered
(06:21):
public records that clearly show while Lizzie was negotiating her
ple deal with federal prosecutors, she was transferring her assets
and what records are those records? So she bought a
house about a house with her husband. She bought a
house with her husband, and the transferred ownership to him
(06:42):
with no concession, and that means what meaning that he
didn't pay her for it. So, based on public records
and court proceedings, here's the timeline for how it all
goes down. In March of Lizzie's lawyer reaches out to
federal prosecutor Scott Tenley and said, I'm going to represent
(07:03):
Lizzie Mulder, and we walked through the evidence and then
pretty quickly Lizzie wanted to resolve the case with a
plea agreement, and that's when negotiations for her guilty plea
agreement officially begin March of But the very next month
in April, while Lizzie and her attorney are going back
(07:23):
and forth with prosecutors about which charges she'll plead guilty to,
public records show that Lizzie Mulder actually buys a house
for six hundred and seventy seven thousand dollars in San
Juan Capistrano, a city in Orange County, twenty minutes south
of Laguna Beach. That house, by the way, is now
(07:44):
worth one point two million dollars according to Zillo, and
right after Lizzie buys that house, according to public records,
she transfers full ownership to her husband, Jesse Mulder. Then
the next month, in May of Lizzie signs her guilty
plea agreement and communicates to the court that she has
(08:07):
no money and no assets to pay victims. There one
point five million dollars in restitution and the cherry on
top of this duplicity. Sunday is months later, while Lizzie
is in federal prison. According to court records, her husband
Jesse Mulder actually divorces her, so he now owns that
(08:30):
one point two million dollars. San Juan Coppastrano home free
and clear. Total bullshit, okay. Victim Mike Cochrane is furious
when I tell him about this, and his emotions are
just as high at Lizzie's sentencing hearing. I just ask him,
closing in your honor, that you take consideration in the
(08:50):
in the proper penalties for this person. She hurts middle
class America. We're all just hard working people busting our ass,
risking it all, helping to support other people as our
staff and employees were trying to pay our dues, pay
our taxes, and unfortunately we had a predator using our
(09:11):
emotions to leverage us, find out where our weaknesses were,
and and capitalize on. She's filled money right out of
the gate with people. She spilled money sixty days within
my dad's death, so she is not remorseful. She also
used to tell me about how smart she was. I
still think she thinks she's smart. I think she's constriving
(09:33):
this deal with her husband in order to have a
life in the near future. Mike figures out exactly what
Lizzie's up to. While she's up to it, I mean,
they had a house in escrow at the sentencene. Actually,
according to public records, Lizzie had already bought the house
and transferred ownership to her husband in April of one
(09:55):
month before signing her guilty plea agreements in May. End
up whopping five months before that sentencing hearing in October.
How can that legally go through? Well, I think it's
a matter of one hand doesn't know what the others doing.
So while prosecutors were focused on how she scammed all
of you, they have no idea that simultaneously she's scamming
(10:16):
them because it's illegal to be hiding assets while you're
working on a plea deal for for stealing. That's highly illegal. Yeah,
don't tell me that guy didn't now. That guy being
Jesse Mulder, I believe he did know. And I think
evidence that you brought up in the sentencing hearing brilliantly
is you visited them and he played along. He was,
(10:37):
He was a collaborator, and he was a freaking partner
as far as I'm concerned. So, as of the beginning
of this year, Lizzie Mulder has been out of federal prison.
She's supposed to be living in a halfway house, but
(10:57):
I have heard she's not in that halfway house. She's
actually living at her house that she bought with Jesse
and Sam. Juan Capistrano, co owner of the salon powered
by Toni and Guy Geneva Mendoza is keeping close tabs
on Lizzie Mulder. And you have this unreliable source, yes,
from our bookkeeper is married to Lizzie's brother, uh Mad,
(11:22):
and we do trust her. Your bookkeepers married to Lizzie's brother,
so so she is she. I thought she was divorced.
They filed for divorced. I found the divorce records. So
that's all a scam. I don't know that you're still together.
She lives with her family there in San Juan Capistrano.
Maybe Jesse Mulder isn't aware that by helping his wife
to hide assets i e. Buy a house and transfer
(11:46):
ownership to him during the negotiation of her plea agreement,
that could make him look kind of like a co conspirator.
Do you think Jesse helped her? And that's the thing,
and we all are. We go back and forth with
that because we believe that Jesse, she's so controlling. If you,
if you actually ever talked to her, you could see
that it was It's very easy that she did handle
(12:07):
everything in the household. Um, because of how easily she
took over all of our stuff, you know, like let
me handle it, let me handle it, let me everything,
just let me, let me do it. And if she
has that dominating personality, then I could see her doing
it with her husband. And he's always been very quiet,
kind of timid. He didn't seem like you had much
of a backbone, not compared to her, who is just
(12:30):
loud and you know a lot um So I I
don't know. I really don't. Shortly after my conversation with Geneva,
I'm on her street. I drive down to San Juan Coppas,
Toranto to get a look at this real estate that
(12:50):
Lizzie buys a month before she signs her plea deal.
These are some nice houses. San Juan Copastrana is a
sleepy city of about thirty five people. It's a two
hour drive south of Los Angeles. This is a nice
suburban neighborhood. There trees, there are mountains in the background.
(13:14):
It is a beautiful day. Destination is on your left.
Who on the left. I drive right past that million
dollar house. It's a single level suburban track home, three bedrooms,
two bathrooms. I'm trying to see if she's living here,
because on paper, she's not living here. On paper, this
(13:38):
is just her husband's house, her ex husband. It's nine
in the morning. I parked my car way down on
her block. I'm wearing workout clothes. My plan is to
get some exercise, walking around her neighborhood while trying to
(13:58):
figure out if he's living there. Okay, there's no one
on the street. Ye oh who approaching the house on foot,
I see a big cement mixer in the driveway and
a construction worker holding a shovel. It looks like they're
(14:21):
doing some renovations to the house. Then all of a sudden,
coming out of the house and getting into a car.
I think it's just so busy. Well there, Um, she
looks completely different. She has long brown hair. This woman
that I saw, she came out of that house that's
(14:42):
supposedly she's not living now, and I think she was
talking to her daughters. One of her daughters came just
arrived home in her own car, and she was talking
to before she left. I walked right past her and
she looked directly in my eyes. But again, I just
(15:04):
look like a neighbor walking, you know, for exercise. I'm
wearing shorts of the calf. I could beat us out
for a walk for exercise in the morning. You know,
you see guys walking. I don't think she suspects I'm
looking for her or at her. Wow, I think that
was her. So I'm pretty sure I just confirmed what
(15:24):
Geneva Mendoza said earlier. She's actually living at her house
that she bought with Jesse and Samuel Capastronto. Fraud investigations,
you've got to play the long game. Jordan Iraqi investigated
Lizzie Meulder back in as a detective for Laguna Beach
p D. Today though he's a sergeant at the Seal
(15:46):
Beach Police Department, but still nothing surprises him about Lizzie Melder.
Absolutely nothing. I think if she's not already scamming people,
I think she's concocting her next scamp. I agree. So
while she was negotiating her plea agreement, was anyone aware
that she was buying a house and then transferring ownership
(16:09):
of that house to Jesse Mulder And then she signed
her plea deal. So technically, by the time she actually signed,
because a plea deal is negotiated over months, it's not
like a coming and signed today done. It was a
back and forth with her attorney for a long time.
By the time she signed it, she had no assets
that the victims could claim for restitution. Isn't that illegal?
(16:30):
It's immoral because in a sense, she entered into this
plea agreement under false pretense that she has no assets.
She had assets, but she transferred them right before the signature.
Well technically speaking, she had no assets when she signed.
And that's the thing, like I you know, getting divorced
from somebody is also a strategic move. Yeah, if you're
going through this, yeah, because now the house is his
(16:53):
and if you want restitution, she has nothing. It's like
she scammed again. She's scamming while she's pleading guilty to
these scams. She's scamming, all right, and these victims would
have to sue Jesse, right but there, but now you're
talking about time and nowhere, and you slap a lean
(17:16):
on the property and it goes nowhere and then they
transferred to the daughters and and you die, you know,
I mean. Lizzie continued her scheming during the plea deal.
She carved I believe, carves the word cunt in the
side of her vehicle and says one of the victims
(17:38):
did it. I couldn't prove it, but listen, I talked
to the deputy that investigated at the patrol deputy and
she told me she goes Yeah, she was hysterical and
she was making a big scene and the neighbors were
coming out, and I talked to neighbors on that street.
She was giving tours of her house to these people.
Knowing that this trial or this sentencing was coming. She
(17:59):
was all ready ingratiating herself with her neighbors. What she
was trying to do is build this narrative that she's
the victim, and was hoping that she could bring that
up in court. But she wasn't able to bring that
up in court because she couldn't prove it right because
she did it. Who who carves the word? Who? Which? Which?
(18:22):
One of my victims exactly? Who have gone through two
years now an upheld battle to try to get this
case charged and their day in court, they're not gonna.
You know, by the way, they don't know that address.
There are so many like it was such a half
asked attempt at trying to gain some sympathy, Like the
address isn't public record yet, so unless all the victims
(18:46):
are following her around. I knew the new address, because
this is the new How she bought with? What money
did she buy that house with? Probably the money that
she had left over that she scammed from these people,
Well you'd call it a fraudulent conveyance. That would be
kind of the legal term of art if you are
moving property under fraudulent pretexas to disguise your assets. Federal
(19:09):
Prosecutor Scott Tenley, who working with i RS criminal investigator
James Kim and the FBI, charges Lizzie Moulder with the crimes.
She eventually pleads guilty too, but he wasn't aware. Lizzie
bought a house and transferred ownership to her husband while
her attorney was negotiating her plea deal with him. If
(19:32):
I had found out that that was going on, it
would have caused been a huge problem. Right, we would
have tried to reverse the transfer, or we would have
potentially we could have probably backed out of the plea agreement.
But it's certainly troubling. By the time the sensing here happened,
she had signed the plea deal. Um, I have the
plea agreements public, but I think there's a provision in
(19:54):
the plea agreement that says something like you have to
be truthful at all times, blah blah blah. So she
has violated the pla agreement. Scott Tinley is not with
the Department of Justice anymore. He's a defense attorney for
the firm Michaelman and Robinson in Orange County. But now
reading over Lizzie Mulder's plea agreement, which is in the
public record, he sees how what she did is not legal.
(20:19):
She's required to be truthful at all times with pretrial services,
the United States Probation Office, and the court. She's also
she agrees to truthfully disclose to law enforcement officials the
location ownership interest in all of the information known to
defend it about all Moneys properties or assets of any kind.
So she it does look like she had an obligation
(20:39):
under the plea agreement to disclose all those assets to us.
You look at when she bought the house, and the
money she used to buy that house was the victim's
money she stole, and then she moves it, transfers it
to ownership to her husband, and then later gets a divorce,
like she's clearly hiding her assets. Did she get a divorce?
She got a divorce, a real divorce or fake divorced? Well,
I think to fake divorce. Has a plea deal ever
(21:04):
been provoked because of something like this because someone didn't
hold up their end they lied? Oh, well, I've certainly
had instances where somebody has had to make payments to
the government as a result of their plea agreement, and
they defrauded us about those payments, and we did what's
called a breach of the Pola agreement, and we filed
new charges against somebody. And just your opinion as a
(21:25):
private citizen who's familiar with the law, doesn't she appear
to have violated it? If there was a fraudulent conveyance
that was intended to hide assets, Yeah, I mean that
that certainly would have been a breach of the police agreement.
I think that the more difficult question for you is
is it something that the U. S. Attorney's Office is
going to throw its resources at it to declare a breach.
(21:48):
It's incredibly rare. I will tell you I've done it. Um.
I actually did it against another fraudster who is the
CEO of an investment firm that stole people's retirement accounts
four million dollars in time retirement accounts. I reached him
because he lied to me about something. After talking to
(22:12):
Scott Tenley, I run this all by Paula Blanc Today.
He's got his own firm in San Diego, the le
Blanc Law Group, but back in he was another federal
prosecutor with the Department of Justice working on the Lizzie
Mulder case. Like I know, it's a breach, so definitely is.
Paul reads directly from the plea agreement Lizzie signed, which
(22:35):
is a matter of public record. Now there it is
right there, truthfully to disclose the law enforcement the location
of defendant's ownership, interest in and all other information known
to defend about all moneys, properties, and or assets of
any kind derived from or acquired as a result of,
or used to facilitate the commission of defendant's illegal activities,
(22:56):
and to forfeit right title. So she did the direct
opposite of that. She hit the money, she stole. She
bought a house, signed it over to her husband, then
later divorced to make it stick. What does that agreement mean?
She has breached it, So then the ramifications are what Well,
she could be charged with another crime, which would be
(23:18):
a fraud. She could potentially be brought back into court
in front of the judge and asked to vacate this
plea agreement. In April, a month before she actually signed,
she bought a house. Here's the deed and the second
page is her transferring that to her husband in April. Now,
(23:42):
there's no way you can tell me that while she
was buying that house she didn't know what she was doing,
because by then Morakian had got the FEDS involved in
August of Yep. I mean she didn't have a legitimate employment.
Her employment was consistently illegitimate. Exactly wasn't a c p A.
And she was holding herself out to be a c
(24:02):
p A. She wasn't, and so everything that she got
was illicit and most of it was stolen um. So
whatever legitimate work she did, there's that much on top
of it. I definitely think that's a violation of the
plea agreement. And if they wanted to try to avoid
the plea agreement, if I was still there, like if
I was still a kiss you off, I would I
would say, Yeah, I would go to the Boston say
this is something we need to open up and we
(24:25):
need to go take that house. Yes you do, because
this house is bought was stolen money. We know that
that's all she had from those people. And I bet
she hasn't paid back the one five million dollars, not
at all. In your experience with the U. S. Attorney's
Office or as a lawyer in general, have you ever
(24:47):
seen repercussions for people who breach their plea agreements? There are,
I mean, it's a cost benefit on analysis that the
government goes through is like is it worth hauling this
person back in. Normally, what happens is, you know, they'll
do their time, they'll get out that beyond it's called
supervisor release in the federal system. It's somewhat similar to
(25:08):
like being on probation in the state system, where you
have a like a probation officer and checking in, living
in a halfway house or you know, going to a
a or whatever it is you're doing. They'll do something
else that violates a lot and then they'll be brought
back in front of the same judge who can then
make decision as to what is the appropriate sentence because
they're still under the custody of the court or they're
still under the supervision of the court. And that happens
(25:29):
a lot um and those are low level. But with
this where you have somebody that appears to have violated
the plea agreement and knowing way, trying to to secrete assets.
It would be something that is actionable by the federal
government and if the evidence is there. You know, I
(25:50):
can't speak on behalf of leadership. Um, but if I
was still in the office, then I would go to
the boss and say, this is something that I believe
should be investigated further. Can we open it in estiation?
Can we start doing some subpoenas and get some information
to verify what we believe And if so, then maybe
present that to a grand jury for an indictment. She
(26:10):
could be indicted again. I can tell you if she
showed up in front of Judge Carter, he would not
be happy. Oh, I'm gonna tell him. Does he have
the power to do something? Yeah? I mean she's still
in her supervision, so he can call her and he
can't canty. She is under his supervision and he does
not suffer fools. So I compose an email to federal
(26:33):
Judge David o' carter with links to public records that
clearly show while Lizzie Mulder was negotiating her plea deal
with federal prosecutors, she bought a house and transferred ownership
to her husband, and then claimed she had no assets
to pay the victim's restitution. So does Judge Carter have
(26:55):
the ability to revoke the plea agreement? I mean, I
guess he could. She is under his supervision. Next time,
on Queen of the Con The O C Savior, I
knew her from junior high and then we both went
(27:16):
to high school together. We examine Lizzie Mulder's crime ridden adolescence,
so she was always scamming since she was a child.
And I take some of those voice changing apps on
a disturbing test drive. I sound like a real live
woman using this one. I don't sound like me Jonathan
Walton at all. If you're enjoying Queen of the Con,
(27:41):
leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts, and
for bonus content, check out at Queen of the Con
on Instagram. Queen of the Con The O C Savior
is a production of a y R Media and iHeart Media,
hosted by Me Jonathan Walton, Executive producers Jonathan Walton for
(28:06):
Jonathan Walton Productions and Eliza Rosen for a y R Media.
Written by Jonathan Walton, Consulting producer Evan Goldstein, Senior Associate
producer Eric Newman, Sound design by baked ZD Media, Mixed
and mastered by Cameron Taggy, sound editing, audio and studio
(28:29):
engineering by Matt Jacobson. Legal counsel for A y R Media,
Gianni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeart Media. Maya Howard
I'd like to hear from you, counsel that I'd like
to hear from the victims, And I've got a couple
of questions for you, Miss Mulder con artists Lizzie Mulder
pleads guilty in federal court to scamming her victims out
of more than one point five million dollars using a
series of elaborate confidence tricks, impersonations, fake bank accounts, forged documents,
(00:26):
and voice changing technology. She gets a five year prison sentence,
and her victims tell a packed court room just how
devastating Lizzie mulder scams are on their lives and livelihoods.
Are you in business today at all? You're not. She
crippled us badly. We almost lost our own homes, damaged
(00:48):
our relationships with our staff, our family, and each other.
We are facing bankruptcy because of her. Her scams put
you out of business. Lizzie, you're a horrible person. You
have no regard for anyone but yourself, and it will
be no surprise that you'll try and present yourself as
a wife and mother of the year. But that could
not be further from the truth. And it turns out
(01:09):
Lizzie Malder is super into head games. What happened in
the hospital haunts me to this state. Her actions completely
stick in me. She has this need to be more
part of my life events than I was. Other victims.
Lizzie scams from two thousand and eleven to two thousand sixteen.
She stole over eight hundred and fifty three thousand dollars
(01:30):
end up losing a lot more than money. I lost
my twenty year marriage. I believe the disagreements with my
husband over the financial problems created by Lizzie ruined our marriage.
But when Lizzie Malder addresses the court, she sounds almost repentant.
As a mother two young daughters, I feared that my
actions will cause them pain and they will never forgive me.
(01:52):
As a wife, I have a fear that my marriage
will not last the unknown punishment. Most of all, I
fear that I will not be able to repay my
restitution fast enough of the needs of the victims, and
it's a human I have fear that my legacy and
life will be that the good that I did in
life will not outshine all this bad. So Lizzie Mulder
goes to federal prison in January, and she's released after
(02:17):
serving four years. But guess what, Lizzie has got a
big secret she's keeping from the judge and from federal prosecutors.
I definitely think that's a violation of the agreement. If
I was still there, like if I was still to
kiss you off, I would go to the Boston say
this is something we need to open up. Yes you do.
(02:46):
I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con
The o C Savior Episode nine total bullshit. Let me
apologize to all the view folks, but we would have
(03:07):
taken about the same amount of time with numerous interruptions.
Right now, we're going from the beginning again without any interruptions.
The sentencing hearing for con artists Lizzie Maulder is unusually
long and gut wrenching. There were tears. I mean, it
was just I've just never seen the sort of devastation
like that where just small businesses were just completely destroyed.
(03:29):
It's something former federal prosecutor Paul LeBlanc will never forget.
These small businesses are the lifeblood of the community. Most
sentencing hearings are twenty minutes. This sentencing hearing for Lizzie
Maulder was like the gone with the wind of sentencing
hearings because it went on for hours. It did and
(03:50):
drama and tears, and it was the judge got so invested,
and that surprised me because judges are jaded, judges have
seen every kind of bad thing under the sun. But
Judge Carter really seemed to care and want to know
more and kept asking questions. Eventually, I want to know
what the money was spent for, how much personal aggrandizement,
(04:13):
horse riding or plastic surgery. Judge Carter has a lot
of experience on the bench and I've had cases in
front of him. He takes his time and he's thorough
and meticulous. But here's where things get really interesting. During
the victim impact statements. After causing me hundreds of thousands
(04:35):
of dollars and damages several times throughout the hearing, destroying
my business, harming my relationships, victims like Laurence Gisha from
the Toni and Guy hair Salon start mentioning the fact
that Lizzie brought her herself at home this year. Home
ver Samons told me about the home um down the
(04:57):
street from her parents. I don't know anything much else
about it. Print shop owner Mike Cochrane brings it up
to she bought a house. Here's a picture of its
beautiful track home. I wish I could afford that home.
I can't qualify for that loan right now. I have
no ability to buy that property. So the fact that
(05:18):
Lizzie Mulder buys a house while she's in the process
of pleading guilty to scamming a dozen victims out of
one point five million dollars kind of just sits there
in open court and eventually gets forgotten about until I
start digging into the Lizzie Mulder case for this podcast.
(05:40):
Now we know after she had bought her house, she
then goes in and signs a plea bargain confessing that
she has no assets. Forensic accountant gen Rodriguez is a
real stickler for details. Remember she's the one who assists
Detective Jordan Miracian early on in his investigation. And Rodriguez
(06:01):
is really kind of the person that helped keep me
organized and also helped explain that scheme because that was
tricky to follow. It's very tricky. Well, it appears Lizzie
Mulder has another very tricky scheme up her sleeve, and
at a time when everyone least suspects it. You uncovered
(06:21):
public records that clearly show while Lizzie was negotiating her
ple deal with federal prosecutors, she was transferring her assets
and what records are those records? So she bought a
house about a house with her husband. She bought a
house with her husband, and the transferred ownership to him
(06:42):
with no concession, and that means what meaning that he
didn't pay her for it. So, based on public records
and court proceedings, here's the timeline for how it all
goes down. In March of Lizzie's lawyer reaches out to
federal prosecutor Scott Tenley and said, I'm going to represent
(07:03):
Lizzie Mulder, and we walked through the evidence and then
pretty quickly Lizzie wanted to resolve the case with a
plea agreement, and that's when negotiations for her guilty plea
agreement officially begin March of But the very next month
in April, while Lizzie and her attorney are going back
(07:23):
and forth with prosecutors about which charges she'll plead guilty to,
public records show that Lizzie Mulder actually buys a house
for six hundred and seventy seven thousand dollars in San
Juan Capistrano, a city in Orange County, twenty minutes south
of Laguna Beach. That house, by the way, is now
(07:44):
worth one point two million dollars according to Zillo, and
right after Lizzie buys that house, according to public records,
she transfers full ownership to her husband, Jesse Mulder. Then
the next month, in May of Lizzie signs her guilty
plea agreement and communicates to the court that she has
(08:07):
no money and no assets to pay victims. There one
point five million dollars in restitution and the cherry on
top of this duplicity. Sunday is months later, while Lizzie
is in federal prison. According to court records, her husband
Jesse Mulder actually divorces her, so he now owns that
(08:30):
one point two million dollars. San Juan Coppastrano home free
and clear. Total bullshit, okay. Victim Mike Cochrane is furious
when I tell him about this, and his emotions are
just as high at Lizzie's sentencing hearing. I just ask him,
closing in your honor, that you take consideration in the
(08:50):
in the proper penalties for this person. She hurts middle
class America. We're all just hard working people busting our ass,
risking it all, helping to support other people as our
staff and employees were trying to pay our dues, pay
our taxes, and unfortunately we had a predator using our
(09:11):
emotions to leverage us, find out where our weaknesses were,
and and capitalize on. She's filled money right out of
the gate with people. She spilled money sixty days within
my dad's death, so she is not remorseful. She also
used to tell me about how smart she was. I
still think she thinks she's smart. I think she's constriving
(09:33):
this deal with her husband in order to have a
life in the near future. Mike figures out exactly what
Lizzie's up to. While she's up to it, I mean,
they had a house in escrow at the sentencene. Actually,
according to public records, Lizzie had already bought the house
and transferred ownership to her husband in April of one
(09:55):
month before signing her guilty plea agreements in May. End
up whopping five months before that sentencing hearing in October.
How can that legally go through? Well, I think it's
a matter of one hand doesn't know what the others doing.
So while prosecutors were focused on how she scammed all
of you, they have no idea that simultaneously she's scamming
(10:16):
them because it's illegal to be hiding assets while you're
working on a plea deal for for stealing. That's highly illegal. Yeah,
don't tell me that guy didn't now. That guy being
Jesse Mulder, I believe he did know. And I think
evidence that you brought up in the sentencing hearing brilliantly
is you visited them and he played along. He was,
(10:37):
He was a collaborator, and he was a freaking partner
as far as I'm concerned. So, as of the beginning
of this year, Lizzie Mulder has been out of federal prison.
She's supposed to be living in a halfway house, but
(10:57):
I have heard she's not in that halfway house. She's
actually living at her house that she bought with Jesse
and Sam. Juan Capistrano, co owner of the salon powered
by Toni and Guy Geneva Mendoza is keeping close tabs
on Lizzie Mulder. And you have this unreliable source, yes,
from our bookkeeper is married to Lizzie's brother, uh Mad,
(11:22):
and we do trust her. Your bookkeepers married to Lizzie's brother,
so so she is she. I thought she was divorced.
They filed for divorced. I found the divorce records. So
that's all a scam. I don't know that you're still together.
She lives with her family there in San Juan Capistrano.
Maybe Jesse Mulder isn't aware that by helping his wife
to hide assets i e. Buy a house and transfer
(11:46):
ownership to him during the negotiation of her plea agreement,
that could make him look kind of like a co conspirator.
Do you think Jesse helped her? And that's the thing,
and we all are. We go back and forth with
that because we believe that Jesse, she's so controlling. If you,
if you actually ever talked to her, you could see
that it was It's very easy that she did handle
(12:07):
everything in the household. Um, because of how easily she
took over all of our stuff, you know, like let
me handle it, let me handle it, let me everything,
just let me, let me do it. And if she
has that dominating personality, then I could see her doing
it with her husband. And he's always been very quiet,
kind of timid. He didn't seem like you had much
of a backbone, not compared to her, who is just
(12:30):
loud and you know a lot um So I I
don't know. I really don't. Shortly after my conversation with Geneva,
I'm on her street. I drive down to San Juan Coppas,
Toranto to get a look at this real estate that
(12:50):
Lizzie buys a month before she signs her plea deal.
These are some nice houses. San Juan Copastrana is a
sleepy city of about thirty five people. It's a two
hour drive south of Los Angeles. This is a nice
suburban neighborhood. There trees, there are mountains in the background.
(13:14):
It is a beautiful day. Destination is on your left.
Who on the left. I drive right past that million
dollar house. It's a single level suburban track home, three bedrooms,
two bathrooms. I'm trying to see if she's living here,
because on paper, she's not living here. On paper, this
(13:38):
is just her husband's house, her ex husband. It's nine
in the morning. I parked my car way down on
her block. I'm wearing workout clothes. My plan is to
get some exercise, walking around her neighborhood while trying to
(13:58):
figure out if he's living there. Okay, there's no one
on the street. Ye oh who approaching the house on foot,
I see a big cement mixer in the driveway and
a construction worker holding a shovel. It looks like they're
(14:21):
doing some renovations to the house. Then all of a sudden,
coming out of the house and getting into a car.
I think it's just so busy. Well there, Um, she
looks completely different. She has long brown hair. This woman
that I saw, she came out of that house that's
(14:42):
supposedly she's not living now, and I think she was
talking to her daughters. One of her daughters came just
arrived home in her own car, and she was talking
to before she left. I walked right past her and
she looked directly in my eyes. But again, I just
(15:04):
look like a neighbor walking, you know, for exercise. I'm
wearing shorts of the calf. I could beat us out
for a walk for exercise in the morning. You know,
you see guys walking. I don't think she suspects I'm
looking for her or at her. Wow, I think that
was her. So I'm pretty sure I just confirmed what
(15:24):
Geneva Mendoza said earlier. She's actually living at her house
that she bought with Jesse and Samuel Capastronto. Fraud investigations,
you've got to play the long game. Jordan Iraqi investigated
Lizzie Meulder back in as a detective for Laguna Beach
p D. Today though he's a sergeant at the Seal
(15:46):
Beach Police Department, but still nothing surprises him about Lizzie Melder.
Absolutely nothing. I think if she's not already scamming people,
I think she's concocting her next scamp. I agree. So
while she was negotiating her plea agreement, was anyone aware
that she was buying a house and then transferring ownership
(16:09):
of that house to Jesse Mulder And then she signed
her plea deal. So technically, by the time she actually signed,
because a plea deal is negotiated over months, it's not
like a coming and signed today done. It was a
back and forth with her attorney for a long time.
By the time she signed it, she had no assets
that the victims could claim for restitution. Isn't that illegal?
(16:30):
It's immoral because in a sense, she entered into this
plea agreement under false pretense that she has no assets.
She had assets, but she transferred them right before the signature.
Well technically speaking, she had no assets when she signed.
And that's the thing, like I you know, getting divorced
from somebody is also a strategic move. Yeah, if you're
going through this, yeah, because now the house is his
(16:53):
and if you want restitution, she has nothing. It's like
she scammed again. She's scamming while she's pleading guilty to
these scams. She's scamming, all right, and these victims would
have to sue Jesse, right but there, but now you're
talking about time and nowhere, and you slap a lean
(17:16):
on the property and it goes nowhere and then they
transferred to the daughters and and you die, you know,
I mean. Lizzie continued her scheming during the plea deal.
She carved I believe, carves the word cunt in the
side of her vehicle and says one of the victims
(17:38):
did it. I couldn't prove it, but listen, I talked
to the deputy that investigated at the patrol deputy and
she told me she goes Yeah, she was hysterical and
she was making a big scene and the neighbors were
coming out, and I talked to neighbors on that street.
She was giving tours of her house to these people.
Knowing that this trial or this sentencing was coming. She
(17:59):
was all ready ingratiating herself with her neighbors. What she
was trying to do is build this narrative that she's
the victim, and was hoping that she could bring that
up in court. But she wasn't able to bring that
up in court because she couldn't prove it right because
she did it. Who who carves the word? Who? Which? Which?
(18:22):
One of my victims exactly? Who have gone through two
years now an upheld battle to try to get this
case charged and their day in court, they're not gonna.
You know, by the way, they don't know that address.
There are so many like it was such a half
asked attempt at trying to gain some sympathy, Like the
address isn't public record yet, so unless all the victims
(18:46):
are following her around. I knew the new address, because
this is the new How she bought with? What money
did she buy that house with? Probably the money that
she had left over that she scammed from these people,
Well you'd call it a fraudulent conveyance. That would be
kind of the legal term of art if you are
moving property under fraudulent pretexas to disguise your assets. Federal
(19:09):
Prosecutor Scott Tenley, who working with i RS criminal investigator
James Kim and the FBI, charges Lizzie Moulder with the crimes.
She eventually pleads guilty too, but he wasn't aware. Lizzie
bought a house and transferred ownership to her husband while
her attorney was negotiating her plea deal with him. If
(19:32):
I had found out that that was going on, it
would have caused been a huge problem. Right, we would
have tried to reverse the transfer, or we would have
potentially we could have probably backed out of the plea agreement.
But it's certainly troubling. By the time the sensing here happened,
she had signed the plea deal. Um, I have the
plea agreements public, but I think there's a provision in
(19:54):
the plea agreement that says something like you have to
be truthful at all times, blah blah blah. So she
has violated the pla agreement. Scott Tinley is not with
the Department of Justice anymore. He's a defense attorney for
the firm Michaelman and Robinson in Orange County. But now
reading over Lizzie Mulder's plea agreement, which is in the
public record, he sees how what she did is not legal.
(20:19):
She's required to be truthful at all times with pretrial services,
the United States Probation Office, and the court. She's also
she agrees to truthfully disclose to law enforcement officials the
location ownership interest in all of the information known to
defend it about all Moneys properties or assets of any kind.
So she it does look like she had an obligation
(20:39):
under the plea agreement to disclose all those assets to us.
You look at when she bought the house, and the
money she used to buy that house was the victim's
money she stole, and then she moves it, transfers it
to ownership to her husband, and then later gets a divorce,
like she's clearly hiding her assets. Did she get a divorce?
She got a divorce, a real divorce or fake divorced? Well,
I think to fake divorce. Has a plea deal ever
(21:04):
been provoked because of something like this because someone didn't
hold up their end they lied? Oh, well, I've certainly
had instances where somebody has had to make payments to
the government as a result of their plea agreement, and
they defrauded us about those payments, and we did what's
called a breach of the Pola agreement, and we filed
new charges against somebody. And just your opinion as a
(21:25):
private citizen who's familiar with the law, doesn't she appear
to have violated it? If there was a fraudulent conveyance
that was intended to hide assets, Yeah, I mean that
that certainly would have been a breach of the police agreement.
I think that the more difficult question for you is
is it something that the U. S. Attorney's Office is
going to throw its resources at it to declare a breach.
(21:48):
It's incredibly rare. I will tell you I've done it. Um.
I actually did it against another fraudster who is the
CEO of an investment firm that stole people's retirement accounts
four million dollars in time retirement accounts. I reached him
because he lied to me about something. After talking to
(22:12):
Scott Tenley, I run this all by Paula Blanc Today.
He's got his own firm in San Diego, the le
Blanc Law Group, but back in he was another federal
prosecutor with the Department of Justice working on the Lizzie
Mulder case. Like I know, it's a breach, so definitely is.
Paul reads directly from the plea agreement Lizzie signed, which
(22:35):
is a matter of public record. Now there it is
right there, truthfully to disclose the law enforcement the location
of defendant's ownership, interest in and all other information known
to defend about all moneys, properties, and or assets of
any kind derived from or acquired as a result of,
or used to facilitate the commission of defendant's illegal activities,
(22:56):
and to forfeit right title. So she did the direct
opposite of that. She hit the money, she stole. She
bought a house, signed it over to her husband, then
later divorced to make it stick. What does that agreement mean?
She has breached it, So then the ramifications are what Well,
she could be charged with another crime, which would be
(23:18):
a fraud. She could potentially be brought back into court
in front of the judge and asked to vacate this
plea agreement. In April, a month before she actually signed,
she bought a house. Here's the deed and the second
page is her transferring that to her husband in April. Now,
(23:42):
there's no way you can tell me that while she
was buying that house she didn't know what she was doing,
because by then Morakian had got the FEDS involved in
August of Yep. I mean she didn't have a legitimate employment.
Her employment was consistently illegitimate. Exactly wasn't a c p A.
And she was holding herself out to be a c
(24:02):
p A. She wasn't, and so everything that she got
was illicit and most of it was stolen um. So
whatever legitimate work she did, there's that much on top
of it. I definitely think that's a violation of the
plea agreement. And if they wanted to try to avoid
the plea agreement, if I was still there, like if
I was still a kiss you off, I would I
would say, Yeah, I would go to the Boston say
this is something we need to open up and we
(24:25):
need to go take that house. Yes you do, because
this house is bought was stolen money. We know that
that's all she had from those people. And I bet
she hasn't paid back the one five million dollars, not
at all. In your experience with the U. S. Attorney's
Office or as a lawyer in general, have you ever
(24:47):
seen repercussions for people who breach their plea agreements? There are,
I mean, it's a cost benefit on analysis that the
government goes through is like is it worth hauling this
person back in. Normally, what happens is, you know, they'll
do their time, they'll get out that beyond it's called
supervisor release in the federal system. It's somewhat similar to
(25:08):
like being on probation in the state system, where you
have a like a probation officer and checking in, living
in a halfway house or you know, going to a
a or whatever it is you're doing. They'll do something
else that violates a lot and then they'll be brought
back in front of the same judge who can then
make decision as to what is the appropriate sentence because
they're still under the custody of the court or they're
still under the supervision of the court. And that happens
(25:29):
a lot um and those are low level. But with
this where you have somebody that appears to have violated
the plea agreement and knowing way, trying to to secrete assets.
It would be something that is actionable by the federal
government and if the evidence is there. You know, I
(25:50):
can't speak on behalf of leadership. Um, but if I
was still in the office, then I would go to
the boss and say, this is something that I believe
should be investigated further. Can we open it in estiation?
Can we start doing some subpoenas and get some information
to verify what we believe And if so, then maybe
present that to a grand jury for an indictment. She
(26:10):
could be indicted again. I can tell you if she
showed up in front of Judge Carter, he would not
be happy. Oh, I'm gonna tell him. Does he have
the power to do something? Yeah? I mean she's still
in her supervision, so he can call her and he
can't canty. She is under his supervision and he does
not suffer fools. So I compose an email to federal
(26:33):
Judge David o' carter with links to public records that
clearly show while Lizzie Mulder was negotiating her plea deal
with federal prosecutors, she bought a house and transferred ownership
to her husband, and then claimed she had no assets
to pay the victim's restitution. So does Judge Carter have
(26:55):
the ability to revoke the plea agreement? I mean, I
guess he could. She is under his supervision. Next time,
on Queen of the Con The O C Savior, I
knew her from junior high and then we both went
(27:16):
to high school together. We examine Lizzie Mulder's crime ridden adolescence,
so she was always scamming since she was a child.
And I take some of those voice changing apps on
a disturbing test drive. I sound like a real live
woman using this one. I don't sound like me Jonathan
Walton at all. If you're enjoying Queen of the Con,
(27:41):
leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts, and
for bonus content, check out at Queen of the Con
on Instagram. Queen of the Con The O C Savior
is a production of a y R Media and iHeart Media,
hosted by Me Jonathan Walton, Executive producers Jonathan Walton for
(28:06):
Jonathan Walton Productions and Eliza Rosen for a y R Media.
Written by Jonathan Walton, Consulting producer Evan Goldstein, Senior Associate
producer Eric Newman, Sound design by baked ZD Media, Mixed
and mastered by Cameron Taggy, sound editing, audio and studio
(28:29):
engineering by Matt Jacobson. Legal counsel for A y R Media,
Gianni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeart Media. Maya Howard
Host
Johnathan Walton
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