Big Lez

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio,
Ladies and gentlemen. Our guest today is legend wait for it, Dairy. Seriously,

(00:20):
I am fanning out. Okay, they're just a brief brief
side note. We are resooming this particular episode, so I'm
looking at it right now and I'm flustered. That's I'm
fanning out right here. Because she She has been an

(00:41):
unavoidable presence in every aspect of my life, from those
from those legendary lioneld C. Martin videos from the early
nineties and early nineties kind of world, as a legendary choreographer,
as the host of the B T. Staple Rap City

(01:02):
the first time I was on the show. Is because
she's interviewing us. Um. I mean, even her dancing silhouette
and the living single credits is etched in all of
our brains as an actress, as a journalist, as a
fitness instructor, as a radio host on DAS Radio. I'm
certain I'm getting on her nerves right now a bit. Yes,

(01:26):
I cannot believe I'm saying this. Ladies and gentlemen, please
welcome big les Leslie. Wait pronounce your last name, bro,
Because I always get it wrong. I always want to say,
I usually take speaguard as long as you sell it
right on the check. I don't even care. Alright, no,
because I was calling you sugar for the longest. He

(01:47):
used to always prefrect me. All right, Yes, ladies and gentlemen,
please welcome to Quest Love Supreme, Leslie big Les Cigar,
Thank you, thank you so much for being here. Oh
I got this is amazing. So where are you right now?
I am in Los Angeles by myself and uh, you know,

(02:08):
trying to keep the sunshine, keeping smiling because it's been
crazy between the protests, between you know, quarantining, it's been
an emotional roller coast for real. Wait, I was gonna say,
right now, you seem like you're ready. You're like camera
ready for red carpet, like it's for real, for real.
This is a casual flex for you, like you just

(02:29):
wake up in the morning like wish. You know, our
whole lives are one zone now, So you know, I
got a look presentable at least a little bit, at
least from the waist up. I was gonna say, waist down.
I still got my old navy underwear on, so yeah, yeah,
what is your skincare regiment before we can get into
your career. What is your regiment's genetic Yeah, okay, whatever

(02:56):
occasional side of boxet of our team, so you know,
Steve take notes. Yeah, I wanna. I want to have
have that shine hr Steve got no department. It's okay.
A man almost went down the ship earlier. So oh,

(03:19):
I'm so proud of everything that you're doing. Congratulations. It's
nice to meet all of y'all and thank you, my
sister like preaching out to me again to I appreciate you,
thank you, thank you. We've been trying to get you
for a long time. This has been one of our
bucket list episodes. It's definitely a bucket list movement, and
it was nice to be able to walk up to
Big Lass and sayd I have your Will you be
on our show? And her go yes, of course. Yes.

(03:42):
I'm so lone like everybody in their hangups, and I'm
just like it is what it is. You know, that's
my brother right there. So you know, so good. Unless
you know, if you really got to find somebody, I
can hunt you down. I phone down, you can find me,
you can find me. So we am we basically had
a course of supreme go through the journey of everyone's life.

(04:05):
So I Walls start with question number one and they
tease me for it. Where were you born? I'm from Queens,
New York, East Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, Corona. That's why i
am born and raise family. Mom is from Augusta, Georgia.
My father to that family from Virginia, but he's a
New Yorker too, So so what what was the environment like?

(04:27):
Like normally on the show, we have music figures, and
you know, the story either starts out in the church
or some sort of uh, there's always some sort of
entry that leads to music. But for you, though, like
what was your environment like in Queens? It's it's interesting

(04:47):
because you start off in a two family household and
then your parents get divorced. Came from a middle class
family literally, like, um, you know, every neighborhood and Queens
or New York really is a mixed neighborhood Americans, borricansco Lamias, Grubano's, Jewish, Europeans, whatever,
And that's kind of what my neighborhood was. Even my
high school was considered like the United Nations of New

(05:08):
York because everybody was so mixed, and so even moving
out to California and people going or realizing that the
only Latinos that they were familiar with were just Mexicans.
I'm like, what are you talking about about Ecuadorians? What
about the leasions? What? You know what I mean. So
that's kind of what I grew up around. And when
my parents got divorced. You know, my mom was very independent,

(05:29):
very structured, very um strict. She didn't play no games,
and uh, I only moved two blocks away from my father,
so he was still like in my life, I have
an older sister. We don't get along. We are like
night and day. She's four years apart, and you would
think we grew up in a completely different household miserable
human being. But that's a whole other chapter. Um just

(05:52):
still to this day, like y'all still don't get along now,
Oh no, not at all. We're actually a court over
some stuff when my father got real Yeah yeah, yeah,
I don't know. It's like that, um to the point
where her and my mother don't even speak. So it's
it's you don't stop. When you stopped speaking to a parent,
then you know there's a problem. That's somewhere and you know, um,

(06:14):
but my parents, my mom was an education she went
to nursing school. Um, you know, raising us but me
and her, my sister, and my dad was he didn't
finish high school, but he worked in US medal. He
was a good guy but turned out to be an alcoholic. Um.
But he was really like one of those calm alcoholics,
you know what I'm saying, Very loving, very friendly to everybody.

(06:35):
But he just I think fell into a depression really
when my parents got divorced, which is the irony of it,
all right, because you while out and womanized and you
do all these things. But I don't think he ever
healed from my mother finally leaving him, And when my
mom remarried, it's like the drinking intensified for him. Um.
So as much as I loved my father, I always
knew I didn't want a man like my father. He

(06:57):
was physically abusive, even though he was the nicest man
on the luck. Was that thing that happened And my
mom even said, I don't know what happened when he
turned forty. He became somebody else. Um. And I've seen
it happen even within the relationships of what happens when
men change, or that there are men that have a
broken history or something that kind of rears his head

(07:18):
somewhere down the line. Oh yeah, no. And I think
even for women too. I mean, you know, they're going
through menopause or all this other stuff that happens to
both people at the same time. So their midlife prices
and your hormones and everybody. You don't recognize it. It
becomes crazy. So when you see that in your parents,
you don't understand it until you get there. Um, But

(07:38):
you know, I was very structured. I was like in
Girl Scouts, I was in gymnastics early. I never missed
a day of school in high school, so I got
like attendance awards. I was in honors classes in third grade.
I studied French for eleven years. Like all these things
that my mother made sure that we were in, you know.
And it's crazy because even though I grew up in
a mixed neighborhood, I literally was like the black girl

(08:00):
and mostly the only black girl and everything. I was
the only black girl in my Girl Scout truth for
seven years. I was the only black girl on both
my UM Young Gymnastic team and my college gymnastic team.
I was the only black girl, one of four and
like all of my honors classes. So it's it's it's interesting.
So when you're when you're training for the gymnastics in

(08:22):
your mind, is the goal like, okay, I might be
an Olympic hopeful or like or is it just to
get college tuition? Like when one enters the world of gymnastics,
like what do you aspiring for? Initially for me, it
was because when I was a tomboy and two, I
had too much energy. I couldn't keep still, so my

(08:42):
mother put me in trampoline class, and like a month
or two later, the guy was like, she needs to
be in gymnastics because you know how you do all
the street tumbling and all that other stuff. But it
wasn't refined, and literally within a year I started late.
Most of them to start when they're like two and three.
I started when I was ten, but by an age
of eleven, I was competing in national conference titians. So
my mom made the switch. Um, And at first, it's

(09:03):
really you just are thinking week to week of beating
someone in the competition, right, you just kind of want
to be the first on bars, the first on floor,
you want to win overall, you want to win a
team because it's a team sport and it's an individual sport.
And it's interesting that as close as I am to
my coach, the coach, of course never signs up to
be anyone's parents, but you end up spending more time
with your coach than you actually do your parents who

(09:25):
are working all the time, or being a lash Key
kid in New York. So I learned a whole lot
of structure from the rules of gymnastics, from showing up
and being in a team sport and being held accountable for,
you know, if I fall off a beam, or if
I show up late, or if I you know, did
thirty push ups instead of the fifty we were supposed
to do, like there was no cheating otherwise you're punished
as a group. So therefore you take accountability. And those

(09:47):
are the kind of things that have you structured or
going into this business. But it wasn't until um, you know,
you get older and you realize, okay, I'm not Olympic material,
because of course that's the goal. Then it was like, well,
I'm going to college, so now let me see if
I can get a scholarship, and I was able to
do that, got a four year gymnastics scholarship, which was
a blessing. Were you like a gymnastics head, Like I remember,

(10:08):
It's just interesting because in the eighties gymnastics was kind
of like a thing, right, Like it was Mary lou Rettens,
Nadia Coma Niche and stuff like that. American anthem were like,
were you like ahead, did you become a fan of it? No? Absolutely,
you know, wild world sports on Saturday, Gymnastic me gymnastic
posters all around the room, um and the names escaped me.
But there were only like two black gymnasts that I

(10:30):
had seen come before me. You know your girl, Um,
the black that she did the black the black flip,
not Dominique dogs because that was no, no, no, not
Dominque Dolls. It's the other girl. But it'll come to
I was like, wow, I was like too, so yeah,

(10:53):
I was gonna say yeah, Dee Thomas, no, but yeah,
So it was you know, being a black gymnast was
really like being a unicorn um for most people. And
then you get in high school. I only competed on
my high school team for one year because they had
really bad equipment. And my private gym was just like

(11:15):
you're gonna get hurt. So they only let me do
it for one year. And that one year was the
year where they had like the big Apple Games. I
won the whole region, you know, the whole thing, and
it was it was a blessing. And so when I
got my scholarship, it was like, shoot, you know, your
mother's like, thank God, all right, I don't have to
come out of my pocket anymore. You know. It's that
whole thing. You know, there weren't any HBCUs that had gymnastics,

(11:37):
so I literally, you know, and I knew I was
gonna go out of state. Like I only applied to
like one New York school which was upstate, to Courtland,
which was eight hours away. Um, I applied to Penn State,
which I got into, and I got a partial gymnastic
scholarship and a partial um academic scholarship. But I got
a full scholarship to Springfield College. So that's what I took.
So how did dancing enter your life? Like, I mean,

(12:01):
at the end of the day, I mean, you've done
so many things, but like what what was your aspiration
as a ten year old or an eleven year old
um to my core. I'm literally like, if I could
do surf to sol and dance like, that's who I am,
ice skating all those artistic things, it's really who I am.

(12:22):
And it really wasn't until two things. The TV show
Solid Gold, where oh my god, you don't understand. She
has a black gazelle leg, she wore this leotar tonytail,
and I'd be in my house knocking over furniture, you know,
pulling my underwear off my hast trying to be like her.

(12:44):
And I mean last year I had a chance to
have her actually on my show and almost cried. I
cried like a baby. What she and she looks exactly
the saying son, oh my god. And you know when
people say you don't want to meet your idols, like
be careful when I tell you. She like, I could
call her any day. She's given me her number. You

(13:04):
go out to like you don't understand. And that's what
I watched and was like later for gymnastics, I want
to dance like this. And then when fame came, I
was like, I'm sold. I was gonna I was gonna
ask with you a Debbie Allen baby like yourself and
Debbie are my two right here. But once you finished gymnastics,
like I knew I wasn't going to the Olympics. But

(13:26):
you can only compete for four years in college for
NT double A, and I had a five year bachelor's
UM program that I got into where I was studying
sports medicine and physicotherapy. But year four you can't compete
more past four years. I'm like, I'm not gonna sit
around even if I'm getting my master's, Like I gotta go,
I gotta dance, I gotta whatever. So I actually left
early UM after I got my bachelor's and my mother,

(13:48):
of course to this day is still giving me the side.
I because year to get my master's. But once I left,
he came back to New York and started audition. You know,
everything was in the newspaper back then, backstage and all
this other stuff. Um, I pretty much booked everything that
I auditioned for probably the first year, two years out
the gate, and my mother was like still giving me

(14:08):
the side when you've all back school, when you go backwards,
And still to this day, my mother can't believe that
cart reels is the thing that trawled around the globe
and TV shows and me, She's like, how did this happen?
She's still scratching her head and less at what point
did you know that you were physically different than the
other ladies that usually exceed in these things. But my
body has always been a topic of discussion, you know.

(14:32):
Third grade, I was literally wearing a bra, so I
was bigger chested, and I had to deal with the
boy snapping. My bro called me like brad grade, I
was wearing a bra so um, and then like being
tall and five ft six so being taller of the
genness you look at, you know, somebody like some own
biles and that she literally is up to like my

(14:52):
breast and most gymnasts of people think that you can
only do gymnastics if you're like four ft eight so,
but when you see college gymnasts were really probably me
all around the same size. You know, started late, but
it took a long time. Like if you see me now,
I'll make it half the time. Like I've never done
any nudity. But I had issues growing up because I
was always very muscular. I was always very athletic, and

(15:15):
guys would just be like, you look like a linebacker, Um,
why are you so muscular for me, and so I
really didn't even take my shirt off at the beach
until I was like a junior senior in college. Um so,
and now you can't keep clothes on me, and now
your body is the model tool what a lot of
women pay to look like, which is ill right, but
it's it's crazy too because even the name big Less

(15:38):
came based on who's the big girl doing backflips? And
that was like, how do you asked the producer that?
And they were like, oh, that's just less And somebody
just literally said big Less, come here. And that's literally
how it happened. Who's the big girl doing back flips?
And I say to people who don't know me, well,
I do gymnastics, and they're like, you're right, maybe you
run track, maybe you play basketball, gymnastics never And I'm like,
I can't even dribble. What do you think? Sorry? You know?

(16:02):
And then I have to kind of show approve and
it's happened a lot of gigs like you don't do gymnastics,
And I'll be like, can you move over three back
handsprings in the full twist? And they're like, oh, okay,
can you still achieve that? Now? Absolutely. I don't know
if you've seen my Instagram. I do try to do
things with softer landings now I do trap peas and

(16:22):
I do tramp with Um. I had to have some
major surgery a couple of years ago, which I'm actually
working on my documentary, so I'll take everybody through it.
But um, I didn't think I'd be able to tumble again,
so I just have to have softer landings. Or even
if you saw the Don't Don't Rush challenge, we did
one with the dances that was so in that too.

(16:44):
Yeah I'm flipping the Simon pools and yeah, I can
still tumble. I just may need some growth in after
a little. Mama still got it. What prompted you? I
know that you said that, Um you started well without
but you mentioned backstage newspaper. Remember that that was such
a a staple in my household because my sister would,

(17:07):
you know, try to land auditions and all those things. So, like,
I mean, at the time, how did you get into
the rotation of what is known as uh choreography work
or your video work? Like what was your first professional
job that you booked? Oh? God, um, the actual because

(17:29):
I was doing it's crazy you know, being a club
kid in New York. And I don't know how much
you guys know about the club scene, but back then
in the nineties, everybody hung out right, all the record
label execs, all the artists. There were, Cype was over there,
there were dance battles over there, and everybody actually had
business cards. And that's kind of how work happened for me,
because there was no internet, there was no telephones, there
was nothing. It was a business card or calling the receptionist,

(17:50):
or watching the music video saying m c A Records,
let me call front DATS find out blah blah blah.
There were two major jobs that happened for me that
really weren't Maine ones. I got hired to be a
cheerleader for a full force game that they were doing
for w BLS. I'd never really cheerleaded, but it was
mostly dance anyway, and I got to do backflips across
the gym. By the time I finished and we had

(18:11):
to head back into the locker room, there must have
been about six people from different labels, some artists I
need you in my video, I need you to dance
from my artists, blah blah, blah. Then I did an
off Broadway play, auditioned for that, and ironically the play
was me Wye Cleft Lauren came somewhere along the line
and we were all just club kids from New York
to New Jersey whatever, and Big Beat Records, Big Beat

(18:35):
Records was going to grab the play and produce it,
and uh, what's his name? Commen Helmen right, had an artist,
Jay Williams. I'm going to the swedt West West West
and I'm Silfen With those of you who know house music.
That was a huge, huge, huge record. That was my
first artist, and we toured all over the country and

(18:58):
literally from people seeing me on that as one of
his dances, we would call hugs and kisses um, and
we were doing every club, the sound Factory, the garage,
I mean just every club late night, three clubs and
night four clubs to night um to four or five
o'clock in the morning, and people would be in the clubs.
And that's how I got my work. And so I was.

(19:19):
You went to the legendary garage. Oh, I still have
my garage card, let me pull it up on the phone. God,
of course, the world the choice, I'm telling you, I
was that Larry Levins when we Vega, Robert Owens, um,
all of them. Man, just yeah, how how I merged?

(19:42):
Were you in New York club? Here we go into
the club scene, like, you know, breaking her through the
whole bit. But most people think, is I mean because
you were being up from Queen's Right. I actually went
to school with you know, Kid and Play Herbie Whiz
and I DJ Whiz and I went to elementary school together.

(20:03):
They're a little older than my sister's age, but we
all grew up in the same area. So all the
jams in the park with them, and the disco twins
and stuff. That's really like from my era and my people.
And uh so I was immersed into hip hop early on,
you know what I mean, like all the battles, sneaking
into all the clubs, and somehow I got into house music,
like really hardcore. So I'm a house dancer before I'm

(20:25):
a hip hop dancer, which most people don't know, Oh
my god, right, just because it's just offers some sort
of spirituality that I don't get as a dancer from
hip hop, right, because the movements are just liquid and
you just kind of close your eyes and stand by
the speaker and it just is infectious to you. And

(20:46):
that's kind of what it did for me and got
me into like really battling and stuff. I was house
battle dancer before I was anything regarding hip hop. So
trying to find my garage card for you at talking
to you. That's you still carry your garage Car's on
my phone somewhere. Why you see the year Hi tough

(21:10):
thing looking like a scary Did you ever actually get
this here, Larry spin I can't remember what did you
eat that? Yes? Yeah, yeah, I mean the garage was
just you know between grace shows, showing up the liszt
Torres and all these artists and performing at like four

(21:32):
or five o'clock in the morning, and you would leave
the garage drenched. You'd always bring a different pack of clothes.
You'll be leaving by the time people were going to
work and the sun would be coming up, you know,
And it was a lifestyle. You could be broke as hell,
but all the security guards knew who the dances were,
you know what I mean, who just like kept the
party's going. So even if I was under age, we
didn't have any money. I never had to pay to

(21:53):
get in and Washington Square Park was like the hang out.
That's kind of where we all just manifested, learned new
move who knew about this audition or whatever, and it
was just kind of like that was our pipeline. We
all broke knapsack kids whatever. But that was like the
best times in my life. I was gonna say, Um,

(22:14):
especially what we're going through right now in New York City,
a lot of people are kind of hoping that with
the with the mass exodus of the factor that's leaving
New York, which I'll say is the gentrification factor. You
know everyone, all of them are running to the hills. Now,
people sort of wondering, you know, what type of New

(22:37):
York will develop post and you know, a friend of
mine said that, well, hopefully, you know, the creativity and
the artists will come back downtown as they used to before,
you know, the gentrification culture. But for you, like, are
you one of those people that just has a romantic

(22:57):
feeling of of New York when it was its most
dangerous per se or is dangerous? Sort of like a
subjective Oh no, I love my old school, grimy, large rats,
trash in the street, uh deep shows on Fort Street,

(23:17):
the Israelites on the corner talking like great dances, Like
that's my quintessential New York. And I feel bad for
the people who come to New York for the first
time now and it's like Universal Studios, Like you don't
get to see the graffiti on the train, which to
me was like the artwork of artwork. Um, you know,
the you know, the late the clubs are just whatever.
And they still don't know the difference between you know,

(23:39):
Bridge and Tunnel Night, which is in regular Friday and
Saturday night and all that other stuff. And for those
people who don't know what that is, is like true
New York is the only go to the club. Literally
from Sunday to Thursday, Ridge and Tunnel was people from Jersey, Connecticut,
Philadelphia who want to come to work for the weekend
and get in the way. They just get in our way.

(24:01):
I love you, really do. The day that I arrived
in New York City was literally like day one of
the disneyfication of Street. So I thought it was great.
I was like, oh man, this is really amazing, you know,
and only to find out that now everyone else was
mourning the loss of New York City. I mean, it's

(24:23):
cute and sure, you know, we all have to be
progressive and all that other stuff, but you kind of
want New York to be what it's always been known for.
And I'm not afraid of the growth. It's cute and
it's beautiful and sure, and I mean, I'm actually kind
of selfishly glad that I got to experience it, and
it's still my version of New York. I don't even
recognize it when I go home anymore. I barely even

(24:43):
recognized queens, all the restaurants, all the people, all the
things that were so culturally hours seems to be had,
you know, stripped away um and every city. Yeah, and
I don't know if it's ever gonna come back, you know.
So that's what I was gonna ask. Do you feel
it will return or I just feel like the inspiration deep,

(25:05):
the inspiration that New York bore was an originality of
thought that came from the things that you see. Like,
because I'm trapped in my car here in l A
all the time, my sensibilities have dumbed down, right, because
I'm not around, my senses aren't as sharp. Uh don't
get to see or smell or hear other languages and

(25:26):
others like, yeah, but when I go home the first
couple of days, I'm like soaking it all in. I'll
walk from Central Park all the way down to Canal
Street just cause And I feel like I've learned or
gained so much culture just because I've been away. But
for those people who were in New York used to
creating this culture that's now been stripped away, I feel like,

(25:49):
you know, they're kind of moving to the outsiders, to
downtown or whatever, and they're not as creative or original
as they used to be or the people that for
them came, you know what I mean. That makes sense. Yes,
it makes sense. So when you're UM, when you're I'm
jumping back to your your first gigs as a dancer,

(26:10):
when you were first hired as a dancer, did you
start off as choreographer or is that sort of like
a chain that you have to work your way up
to UM Usually you kind of have to work your
way up to it. It really kind of happened to me.
Nothing's an accident. My first major tour was the Key
Sweat Triple Threat Tour BBD, Johnnie Gail Keith Sweat, and

(26:33):
literally my jobs after that came from being seen by
the artists in the audience who would come backstage like
guy Teddy Riley and Aaron Hole would be like, you
have to dance with us and meet me by the
dressing room. Or happened same thing with Heavy d you
know when hev lost the guys and I was like,
I'm gonna have girl dancers. He literally I saw him

(26:54):
in the audience and by the time we got to
the dressing room, he was standing in front of our
doors like I need you to dance for me. Um.
So that's kind of how those things happened. Um, I've
got I'm sorry I mr question that I answered, I
don't think I did. Yeah, no, you you told me
that the process of it. But what I wanted to
know was who was who was the the the choreographer

(27:18):
of the moment when you entered the game of mm
hmm doing these legendary videos, like did they trust you
to make up the steps? Or who was the person
that was at the helm. So to answer your original question,
choreography happened for me because people always thought that I
was the principal danswer because I was in front and

(27:38):
they assumed that I choreographed up and a lot of
times the choreographers who had the job would show up
unprepared and be like, okay, I need a a count
or I need a four count over here, and we
ended up doing more of the work and I just
was like, aren't you getting paid for this? Like wait what?
And so the next time somebody asked me, I said, yeah,
I choreographed it, which was kind of a lie good.
I wrap my roget And then that's kind of how

(28:01):
I switched up the deal is I was probably getting
paid more than anyone else as a dancer, and then
I started realizing how much money choreographers were making, like
oh schnap. But choreographers then, there weren't really many any females.
They were like peek the boo um donovan uh. They
were the guys from the mop Top crew, like Stretch

(28:22):
and Henry and Link. Rosie Krez probably was one of
the females who are around. And Rosie will be the
first to tell you like she's a creative visionary versus
being a dancer dancer, you know, I mean, she's somebody
who could move well and we seem to throw it back,
you know, on soul Train and stuff. But she'll tell
you she's not a dancer dancer, um, but she has
great vision, you know. Um. So those were some some

(28:43):
of the people who really for me were hiring me
a lot. Darren Henson started to do a lot of
choreography dance Music Factory, so he was hiring me a lot.
And then I was getting hired by the directors directly.
Lionel Martin, Millicent Shelton was really doing a lot of
the music videos then that I had, um, you know,
dance Arf Barkley he did around the play Girl, you know,

(29:05):
and into TV and stuff. But I was there for
a lot of the beginning, you know, Jeff Bird, uh well,
even while you know, Benny Boom was moving apple boxes
for Lionel, like you know, I was. We were all
there at the beginning of these careers. Nobody everybody was
just getting put on, you know. Um, And so there
were a lot of Rosie was really the only one

(29:25):
who initially first was the head choreographer as far as
females go. And then Randon as well. You know, Landon
was doing Janet on the West Coast and I was
still dancing and then really transitioning into choreography. Um. And
then you kind of have to decide for yourself. Can
you do both? Now? Can I put myself on the front?

(29:46):
Am I gonna be subjective to knowing what the choreography
looks like as well as dancing it and being that
whole thing? And I did it for a while and
the reason I ended up stepping out of dance rout
City came along, which you know was a blessing. Can
I just ask on a dancing tip at some point,
because you made that transition to choreographer, and because you're
a New York dancer, did other folks of other generations

(30:08):
and genres reach out to you? Because in my mind,
I'm like, wow, did you get to talk to like
the Judith Jamisons, the George Faisons and that that that'd
be Allan's of the world that were no, because they
were really they were I think doing more Broadway and
TV at that time, and then is tapped into music
videos and touring and even hip hop per set. They

(30:28):
may have maybe started to introduce it a lot if
they were still teaching class. At some point, you are, Opra,
They got to know who is this girl? Right? Right? Right?
But I mean, and you never know who's watching, Like
it's the critical thing. You just when you meet people
and they're like, hey, you know, I saw you dance,
when you're like, oh my god, that's George Clooney, you know,
me like and I'm just I've never met people as

(30:50):
a name, and you're just like, oh snap, you never
know who's watching you. So I didn't get to meet
them during that time or really danced in their world.
They were more theatrical. Um. The person I did get
a chance to meet obviously was Otis to Lead, who
really is up that genre. And he's the one who
did the living single intro. H No. Otis to Lead

(31:12):
is the one who was like a directographer. He did
school days choreography, you know, good and bad hair and
all that rop in Malcolm X. Like he's a genius,
a genius. And I was just so grateful that he
even called me because I was still I was on
tour when they were doing auditions for Malcolm X and
Lyndy Hopp is my favorite genre of life. And I

(31:32):
found out about the Asian too late, but I was
able to go to one of the rehearsals introduce myself
to him. He kind of lori Anne, I think was
working on that um, maybe introduction, but I was too late,
so I got to do extra work in the film.
Cut to a year or a month later, whenever it happened.
I get a phone call and this otis on the
other line, and You're like, is this really you? Like

(31:55):
it's like Michael Jackson calling your phone? Like that's what
it felt. Answer like, No, this campy the honestly sure
whatever you need? You know. Wow? So what was it
like when Michael Jackson actually called your phone? Think about it? Like,
damn so what What I what I want to know is, though,

(32:21):
is how how competitive was it? And I don't mean
from like a caddy sort of thing, but like in
terms of booking gigs? Uh, were you your own agent?
Were you your own manager? Like? How is one able
to secure gigs? How's one able to solidify? Because it's like,

(32:45):
as far as I know growing up watching these specific videos,
I mean there's a point where either I mean, you
already named Millicent in Paris, but like Lionel C. Martin,
damn near did. Like at one point I'm certain that
he did sixties of all the output on that I saw,
And so it's like on the other side of that coin,

(33:11):
what was the environment like as far as being chosen, like, yes,
we definitely know who you are, but like you know,
there's also Josie Harris. There's there's like other household names
that I know in the game, like how does how
does one navigate? Like was it Caddy? Was it? Just

(33:34):
like hey, there's enough work for all of us, Like
what was the environment? Like? Um, It's interesting because at
first it started off where everybody's calling each other like, Yo,
there's an audition for this, there's an audition for that.
Then for me, it got to a point where I
would always call everyone. Remember I come from team sports,
so it's like, even if you compete against somebody one

(33:55):
weekend and they beat you, you got a whole week
or two weeks to come back and beat them, right,
So it's all fair game. The industry is not like that.
There's a lot of jealousy and animosity. And so I
remember going to an audition and the people that I
normally called or we call each other, suddenly nobody called me.
And I got the call like at the last minute,
and I show up and all my friends are there,

(34:15):
and I'm like, how come nobody called me? And one
of my really close friends that because you book all
the jobs, we just want to work. And that's when
I literally was changed from that. I became somebody who
was like this, now I'm not saying anything to anybody.
I'm keeping the work to myself, and that's not even
my character. And literally it just was like, now I'm

(34:36):
really going to book these gigs. Now I'm really gonna
show up and show out and make sure that I
take this opportunity away from you, just because it's my blessing.
And I work harder than everybody else because I'm the
chick who gets up earlier in the morning. It still
works out and does what needs to be done. But okay,
if that's your hate, and that's what it is. But
back then, like I said, everybody was their own age,

(34:57):
and I remember making calls as my own assist STEMP,
changing my voice, you know, sending different anothers or whatever
cases and booking gigs and no negotiating my price and stuff.
But the calls back then came directly, where you just
gave people your number. They gave you either the business
card or the number to the label, and they were
just calling me direct, and I just would have to

(35:18):
pretend to be someone else to negotiate my rate. Oh wow, Okay,
now I really got to get into the business. Um
is there is such a thing as a union. And
if you don't mind me asking, okay, if it's nine
or nine one, what was considered a good booking? I'm

(35:40):
certain that right wise? Right, he's like you ask in
a mirror rate wise, like you know in my field,
like if I like somebody a lot of times out
to him, I'm I'm not you know, I won't charge him.
I mean, I'm at a place now where I'm comfortable.
But you know, if you're using this to survive day
to day, what's like a friends and family discount? Like,

(36:02):
all right, I'll hoop you because you guys have a
little budget. I really like the song versus like, what's
a good booking? Well, I don't think. And when I
talked to dances now, because there was never a union
back then, you really had to expeast their famine, and
artists always made you feel like dances coming down. It
doesn't we can get somebody else. So either you would
underbid another choreographer, which has happened, or you would just

(36:25):
settle for less money just so you can get the
gig um, and now that, even though there are more
agencies and stuff like that, I think what the scale is,
it's still not where it should be. So dancers really
are doing it for the passion and not for the money.
Back then, I think day rates were probably like two
fifty four rehearsal. We're talking like anywhere from four to

(36:46):
eight hours, maybe five hundred for a shoot day. Choreographers
would get more, maybe then seven hundred, and maybe you
might get a thousand a week if you were going
on tour. Like that's when you look at the big
scheme of things and all that we're doing and contributing
to this artwork and these visuals. It's not a lot
of money based on other people, but artists try to

(37:07):
put you on retainer and just hold you for so
nobody else could. Oh no, no, there was no such
thing as retained or they're not spending that money those contacts,
they're not doing it. My first job on the Key
Sweat tour, I cried like a baby because I had
a real job and so I was able to take
a leave of absence, which I didn't even know it
was an option. He broke his foot on that tour
and I'm like, oh my god, this tour is about

(37:28):
the end. I have to go back to a real job.
But he kept going. But there's no concrete safety net
about what's gonna happen. Um, it's you know, a tour
or a project dissolved. There may be more coverage now,
depending on whether it's a commercial or TV show where
the union kind of gets involved in his under stagging
after um, but there's no There are barely any artists
who ever pay a retainer for their band or for

(37:50):
the dancers. They like, really want to have to have
you and keep you and not want to share you
with somebody else for that to happen, And then you know,
it's always they're always in some what a financial disagreement
with the label anyway about their money being spent. So
the last thing on their mind is keeping dances where
the first to go. They don't want us. They don't
want to have to buy a you know, stage where

(38:11):
they don't have to get here and make up, they
don't have to do any of that stuff. But you know,
I don't separate tour buses hotel rooms, like, yeah, that
comes with a price for your stage show. Yeah, I wait,
because I know that you were part of the Bobby campaign,
his third album, of which when I saw y'all it

(38:32):
was like people on stage. I was wondering how that
for d M work. What do you consider the first
video that was your breakout moment? Was it Mary or like,
oh no, before I think my it might have been
Around the Way Girl. From most people, I'm not gonna

(38:54):
like it doesn't highlight my best work. The video for
me that highlights my best work as a dancer is
the artist a Diva, She's the House. He had a
video called um, it should have been Me, and we
did a scene that was kind of like um the
Blues Brothers where Jim Belucci or John Blush excuse me
did back flips down the church aisle and that was

(39:15):
the whole theme of the video. And I actually got
hired to be a dancer with the ensemble cast and
Big Mike Ellis was the first a d on that,
and I forget who was actually directing it, and they
had hired somebody to do trampoline work and tumble and
they were horrible. So I was like, Mike, tell him
I can do it. But Mike told me whoever the
director was, that she can do it, that I could

(39:35):
do it, and the director was like yeah right, and
I'm like no, And again it became one of these
like everybody to clear the aisle and literally did you
can see it on YouTube, did like three or four
backflips down the aisle whatever, And of course it made
the film. Um and they had to pay me for
that too. So shout to Mike Ellis making that happen,

(39:58):
flipping flip and ares another invoice. But it takes you
a minute to realize that you're worth and that you
can actually these things because you don't realize you know,
and you can. There's no standard that was set for
you as a dancer, you know what I mean. So
you kind of figure it out that you're going on
and then you try it, Like if you say, if
you find out one choreographers making you know, five hundred
forget how bad you want the job? Well, I'm worth

(40:20):
fifteen and you're like, well we only have Nope, you
came to me, and then you kind of like thank
felt for it that So that's gonna be now on,
you know what I mean. Uh, let's let's let's go there.
Remember the time um no with remember the time with

(40:42):
Michael Jackson being uh at at his somewhat apex. I
mean I kind of consider that probably Okay, I'll let
scream go in there too. But like back when a
Michael Jackson video was an event, muh was that a

(41:05):
mount Fiji of achievement as far as videos work was concerned, Like,
was that the best treatment? Was that the most professional atmosphere?
Or you know, was it the story of like oh
the bigger, the bigger, the artist, the the cheaper and
you know, like what was that experience? Like that was

(41:25):
everything that you wish for as a dancer. I found
out about the audition like on a Wednesday night, Like
on a Wednesday, I was in New York a bunch
of dances, like, oh my god, was scrambling. It's on Saturday,
or maybe like even that Thursday, I found out broke
a fuck. I had to beg my mother for money
to get on the plane, like mom, please please please.
Found out Patino was choreographing it. We were hanging out.

(41:48):
She was like, you can come, you can audition. I
can't make promises to anybody, So I was like cool.
They end up staying with her. She's like I can't,
you know, the director has finals say blah blah blah.
A bunch of us were able to get on a
plane and literally, John Singleton have been a fan of
New York dancers, so he kind of knew who a
lot of us were when we showed up at the audition.
And once you book the gig and you make that

(42:10):
call home like, oh my god, mom, I got it.
So then we're having auditions, I mean rehearsals, and we
haven't met Michael yet. Right, we're probably two three weeks
into rehearsals and we still haven't seen Michael yet because
Michael's having his private rehearsals with the Teama. So and
did you know beforehand that it was gonna be for
Michael Jackson video. Yeah, we knew exactly on the plane,
Like that's the only reason why you start begging for

(42:31):
money is like, um, I know I can book this,
Just get me there please. And so once we get
into rehearsals, we're also giving a book that looks like
the phone book For those who don't know, it's like
this big which is a contract pretty much don't look
at him, don't talk to him, don't talk to bubbles,
don't ask the questions, they'll take a pick like this,
whatever you can think of, it's in this contract. So

(42:53):
Michael shows up and it is literally now, oh, let
me back up a little bit because once John singles
and said, as we want you you you, you you,
which say, let's say ten dancers from New York hopped
on a plane. Maybe eight of us got higher, and
so they gave us the dam. They put a lot
of people up in a hotel or um. You know,

(43:15):
we have places to stay because everybody kind of planned on.
You know, we all broke finding places to stay. But
they gave us per dam because you know, we flew
out there, um and wardrobe, hair, makeup. To show up
to Universal Studios is the dream of dreams, right. It's
everything that you can imagine when you pull up the
first day and you see these gates I say, Universal

(43:37):
Studios and you're actually allowed on and you hear the
wind blowing and the heart playing and all that, like
like that's what it was. The rehearsal was great. Were
three weeks into rehearsals. Two weeks into rehearsals. Michael comes
in a couple of days before we shoot, and he's
speaking everybody like, hey, everybody in itself wise, Hi, how

(43:58):
you guys doing what? Everybody so paranoid, like, don't look
at him, don't talk to him, we're not allowed to
kind of like this. And so he shows us what
the routine looks like first, so we do. We watch
him do the routine and all of us are like, uh,
we didn't learn it, like no, no, no, his stank

(44:20):
his groove like he was on some other ship. We
were just like or by six and Michael's like one
two three like he was. We were all like, oh yeah,
So we only, thank god, had like two or three
more days before the shoot to get in there and

(44:40):
step our game up. And then when we got on set,
that was like a whole other euphoria because then Michael's
hanging out with us, and artists tend to hang out
with the dancers, right, we're like the cool kids. We
kind of don't care or we're over there just practicing
our stuff, and so he's talking to us and to
hear Michael Jackson curse like now, funck that man, Like

(45:05):
you forget that he's cursing or that he's you know
what I'm saying, And he's like, wow, he's kept. But
you forget that there home by themselves watching the l
L Pool J video jamming to Marry J Blige, proving
the guy or whatever they're doing, and you just think
that they're not human or in this bubble. And he

(45:26):
really was like cool with us. And to be on
that set. Every star that you could imagine was coming
to visit just to hang out, whether it was John
Singleton or hang out with you know, Magic Johnson's and
it's his friends and the whole Lakers team is rolling
up and you're just like, hang it off. We didn't
hang like, you know, you just kind of scared to

(45:48):
like step over any boundaries. But everybody's coming. They want
to take pictures with us because they love our costumes.
You know, we're on set with everything and everybody, like
it was just match anything that you can dream of
as a dancer. This was the dream Pinnacle project, hands
down of all time. And it was an event. And

(46:08):
when it was time for it to like debut on MTV,
it literally was like twenty of us in the hotel
room telling all about family. Oh my god, it's gonna
air like it was a thing thing and in the
seat and then to see that you made the edit
like again, like come on, and you wait. You couldn't
be played back then, so you had to wait for

(46:29):
it to re air, you know what I mean? Like,
but can we talk about everybody's favorite edit? I know
the guys ain't gonna say it because they ain't gonna
say it, but but the favorite when it's a part
when Lessie is doing her thing and then it's a
dude to go under and it's just the whole world
just okay, never mind? Do you? Nobody never ever noticed that,
let's whole world get shaken up in the middle of

(46:50):
her dancing and a guy comes in between, like, I okay,
it's I'm I the only one that I mean, I
was like the hunter and you you're gonna ask all
the questions. I'm okay, Maybe just act like I can't
say that this is a professional interview. Sorry about that list.
It was just me no, but I get that a
lot even from you know what, question was talking about

(47:11):
Bobby Brown the humping around video. Here I am with
the hands man, you know, thank napping on death copy.
Jam Martin pulls me on stage and it's the heck
you know. So that being said, let me ask you
a serious question, then damn it, because I wanted to
tell me the polar opposite story. You told me, You

(47:33):
told me the greatest video story for you. You don't
even have the name names. Now give me the polar
opposite story. What was a bad experience? Um M, you
don't you know the name names if you don't want no, No,
I don't think it was. I don't remember a really
horrible project for me. It was touring scenarios. There were

(47:56):
two artists that I toured with where And I'm sure
Bobby probably he said it when you talk to him
about um like all the dancers and stuff, arguing and
whatever like. But it's family members too, Like it's just
you get all these people who are on tour who
don't do any of the creative work, but by nepotism

(48:17):
take I can do whatever, and I'm here and I'm
not going anywhere. So the crew, the cousins, whoever. But
you can't say anything because that's their family. So you'll
get fired before they do. And here they come, whether
they're smoking on the dancers bus or they're selling like
tickets on the side, and like that's your brother and
you're selling you know what, I'm saying like, but there

(48:37):
was like one artist that I worked for who really
was just like, y'all ain't ship, I can get new
dances in here tomorrow. And we were on a tour
with other artists that had dances I need you to
bust their ass every day. And he was so arrogant
and so obnoxious that I never spoke to him ever, ever,
ever spoke to him unless I absolutely had to. And

(48:59):
and I probably reveal this when I do my documentary
about who it is um, but it's funny how years
happened or how many people end up respecting you because
you didn't kiss their ass. I ended up living in
the same building as this artist years later, and we
became really not really good friends, but to a point
where he asked me to be part of like his

(49:19):
radio show and all this other stuff later, and I
was like, sequently, he probably had respect to me that
I wasn't trying to kiss his ass or be his friend,
because that's what happens, right, is everybody wants to be
friends with the artists, but as opposed to, you know,
creating really true friendships, right just because of the hype
of yeah, I can call us your up every day

(49:39):
because I d answered him as opposed to you and
us are really having a bond like that become a
best friends. So um yeah, it's how so how toxic
is the proverbial casting couch during this period between the
nineties and I don't know when the end of you

(50:00):
a bracket is as far as the choreography world is concerned,
because I know it had to have been toxic as hell.
That casting couch is real as real then as it
is today. And I don't think me too really has
kind of slowed much about no, not at all. And
remember I got it from the dance side, from radio side,

(50:23):
from the TV side, like it's you know, and I've
never had to sleep my way to the top, Like, um,
you gotta work for backflips. I wasn't you know what
I mean? Like I can't you gotta pay for that?
Like you need you need me more than I need you.
But I have been proposition whereas like, well, you know,
you don't even have to audition, you just you know,

(50:44):
get on your knees over here and stuck me off
over here. You should let me take you out over here,
and that kind of a thing, like it's some real
stuff and you have to kind of really know who
you are. I probably have more fear of my mother
or the fear of disappointing my mother, than I did
worrying about a job, you know what I mean. And
it's not about being arrogant or confident. You also have
to know what you're worth is or that all right, well,

(51:05):
they ain't meant for me, It's not I think for
me coming into the business, I had so much fear
about the stories and the drugs. But one of my
first gigs is doing like the New Roles telethon and
we're hanging out and I don't want to snitch on that.

(51:26):
Remember you had that huge telethon, right, I was dancing
on some of that I was dancing for, like I
think Big Daddy Kane or Cool Mood. I think I
was dancing for something. And then like all these artists
and stuff or backstage, whether it's Shaka Khan and this
person that person, and you start like want to hang
out with the dances and then you're getting somebody's limo

(51:48):
and they thing you know, you see them doing cocaine,
Like these are my first and I'm like, this is
really real. This is the stuff that you read about
like oh snap, so and so, oh snap, you know
what I mean, But you kind of have to be like, Okay,
let me keep it together blah blah blah. But you are,
you're hit up by the casting couch and these scoundrels
who are just like I think it's okay to proposition

(52:12):
you and that you're not gonna say anything, or that
you want the job really bad. And I'm not that
she wanted a job really that bad because I believed
in my gift and I think if I had not
had my gymnastic background and had so much success in that,
or had you know, the wisdom of the women that
nurtured me growing up, that I could have been somebody
else who would have been thirsty for a job. I

(52:34):
think the adverse reaction now is that those same guys
who didn't getting the asked for me, even though they
know the body of work that I have, their ego
is so damaged that they won't hire me to this day,
you know what I mean. So that's their version of
blacklisting me or being mad that I didn't give them
any ass kind of a thing. So, yeah, I was
gonna ask, where's the repercussion of saying no and standing

(52:58):
up for yourself, like is it this particular artists will
blackball you, or even worse, this particular ceo of a
label will blackball you? Or video director? Yeah, it's it
was never blatant, I believe though there maybe a couple
of times where I didn't get the return phone call,
or I didn't get the meeting, or somebody else got

(53:18):
hired because of me, but it was never to my face,
well you didn't give me this or because it was
never that. And they may still speak to me or
say hi, just on whether it's nostalgia or to show
me that they're an executive at a label or whatever now,
or they'll even take a meeting, but they won't hire me.
They want me to see their corner window office or
whatever and be like yes, so what can I do

(53:39):
for you? Or you know, they expect you to be
in their face now and that your mind has changed
because you've blown up and I'm ready to break you
off and like not here, that's not it. But curious
though less because there even after the castings, like after
you have the job and you've earned the job, we
know that like that doesn't stop then, So I'm just
curious for you, like what was your lot of defense

(54:00):
and at what point did for lack of a better term,
niggas get the point and stop asking, because I know
after for a while it was just like, oh, I
can let me try every trying. Who's that? Oh I
ain't hit it yet, maybe you could make when did
it go okay? You know what? I know? Les and
she ain't the one. Well, I think being allowed as
New Yorker and just be like the funk out of here,
you know what I'm saying Like that, that's you know,

(54:20):
you're very upfront, very loud. I'm a very loud, very
upfront cursoning out two point two seconds, like for real.
I think being a muscular chick and being very physical
it's kind of intimidating to um. You know, I've never
had anybody grabbed me. And I feel sorry for all
the women who were back into a corner like that,
but I've never been back into a corner like that,
or I think I kind of just looked like I'm

(54:41):
ready to knuckle up, so I don't you know, but
there are you know, those repercussions, But for me, it's
like there's nothing attractive about being one of ten other
women who have slept with the same dude in the room, Like,
that's not cute. I don't ever want to be that chick.
No matter how fine you are, what team you played for,
whatever case is, there's nothing sexy about being one of

(55:02):
twenties that drug at all. You know, he can be
like this, this, this is that and the other. And
I've never sucked anybody who had control over my money.
You're not gonna dictate to me because I have how
much I make or you get to fund ten people,
and I can only funck with you, and the minute
you see me with somebody else, then you fire me
and I lose the job and all that other stuff.
So no, we're gonna keep it. Whatever. So I've never

(55:23):
slept with the artist, maybe the drummer, keyboard playing. But
it's safe to say that you've never felt powerless in
this No, I don't think I've ums desperate. I've never
felt desperate enough to feel like I have to do this,

(55:47):
that and the other for this job. No, what was
what was the What was the moment that led to
you sort of ease out of your comfort zone and
go into being a personality. Because I've seen you on
many a red carpet doing Rap City, Like was was

(56:08):
that your first job? As it like, how did you
know that you had a personality? Because it's it's you know,
even even for me to ease into this zone is
a little weird, Like just because I'm a public figure
doesn't mean that you know, just because you could do that,
doesn't mean that you can carry a conversation, go to
be engaging and all that something. You're really engaging, like

(56:29):
you are a personality. It's almost like, you know, when
I when I saw that you first started like doing
red carpet stuff and starting with Rap City, I was like, Oh,
she's a natural, Like she is a personality, Like where
did that come from? Wow? Thank you for saying that.
Th real Um, it's interesting the things that you write
in your diary have so much power. When I was

(56:50):
in high school, I was going to study journalism and
I took like three journalism classes and the last one
I took out didn't like it, So I was like
ab switching to sports medicine and athletic training and all
that other stuff. But I still always kept a journal.
I always still wrote short stories and always kind of
like being inquisitive by nature. Rap City is a blessing
that came after I did not become a fly girl,

(57:12):
Like that's a whole other I didn't want to ask,
that's so oh yeah. What didn't well by being a
fly girl was the gig that I wanted more than anything.
Literally did not get it and did it all. Yeah,
it was already like set up. I had the best audition.

(57:32):
All the local news channels are interviewing me. I did
all these flips and this that and otherbody knew you.
It was the New York fam the Winds and Rosie
and Yah. But Rosie came over to me sidebarbs like
can you lose ten pounds? And already been on the show,
And I'm like, but Jen at the time was bigger
than I was, Like, I was really muscular, but she
was thicker. Um. And then I found out that, you know,

(57:53):
by Josie's own words, that she had been approached well
before the audition by I guess one of the way
it's called her and said listen, we need you to
show up what we want to know if you want
the gig. So she pretty much already had and just
kind of had to look like she had the audition,
and you know, usually they do what's called typecasting. You
say you want somebody like skinning this tall Latino women,

(58:14):
black women, whatever. You know, this was an open audition,
but they already knew who they wanted and what they wanted.
And um Rosy years later came to apologize for even
asking me that question and wishing that she had fought
for me because she knew that I was the baddest
thing in the room at that time. But rejection is
God's protection, right, I'm picking my wounds and I don't

(58:35):
get fly girl. I go on Madeline Wood Show video
LP and dance on the show. I'm talking about all
these artists that I've worked with, you know, as a dancer,
that you spend time with on the tour bus and rehearsals,
so you know them more than the fans do, sometimes
even better than the family does. And so they're like,
you know these people, You've been around them even before
some of them had their deals, and would you like

(58:57):
to audition for Rap City? And I auditioned, and the
producer Keith Paschelle and Sanita Brooks and Eric Watson still
had to fight with me, had to fight for me.
But the producers upstairs because one I didn't look a
certain way, right, there goes our lovely black on black colorism,
And there wasn't a female voice really in a hip

(59:19):
hop on that level other than Deep Arn't who came
before me. Um. Once they were able to give me
a couple of episodes UM to prove myself. I got
the job, but they were they were gracious enough to
let me do the show while I was still dancing.
I think I was on tour with Heavy d and
it worked into their benefit because now as we're city
to city, I could do interviews in city to city

(59:41):
and they didn't have to pay like any extra force,
so I could catch up with Common in Chicago and
so and so and so. And when it became too much,
they were like, you're gonna have to choose. And by
that time, you know, I had already done like fifteen
years of gymnastics, even though I wasn't ready to quit dancing,
but I had transitioned into choreography. I was still doing
more choreography and I couldn't tour, so I just kind
of was like, let me focus on TV altogether. And

(01:00:02):
that's kind of how that happened and then radio was
born from that. I think the thing I used to
always like about you hosting Rap City, I would notice
how a lot of times guests would change up who
they were with you in a way that they wouldn't
with like d or you know, Chris Thomas or whoever.
I remember it was a Boogie Monsters episode. One of

(01:00:22):
the guys he was trying, Yo, he was trying so
hard to kick it to you. I can't remember which
one it was, you know, man, I'm sorry. We all
try to kick so obvious though he was like talking
that day. I was like that first day of school
feeling when you're standing at the outfit. I am my shirt,

(01:00:43):
you know, iron Ship. I get out there like I
was like, yeah, we didn't wrap city today, let me
use my good shirt. Blessing that happened for me with
that is that a lot of the labels and the
artists would request me, and I think because they knew
of me as a dance or they knew me from
the club. They knew I had been around and been
in the trenches, and that they could trust me with

(01:01:03):
their story, and that I actually knew the story, you
know what I mean, because I was there I was
part of it, so it was easy for them to like,
come on the show and let's just have real conversations
and um, you know, if you see my first episode
to my like twentie, Yeah, I grew a whole lot
because I had real you know, producers who would teach
me how to talk and to listen and this and
that and stuff. So it made a difference and I

(01:01:24):
felt really comfortable. I think when you're a performer, um
and and maybe it's a little different for you, quest
Like there's certain things should comfortable with the not like
I've always as a gymnast, been comfortable on camera and
perforing and being a show person. Um And I've always
been a talker and I'm always inquisitive, like I'm nosy,
and I could ask you like eight hundred questions and

(01:01:44):
without a qute card, and just because I want to
hear your story and I have human interests love, like
I just really want to know how you got from
A to Z and I'm curious about it. So I
think you kind of get that and appreciate telling their
story in that way. You know what, There's one question

(01:02:05):
I did forget to ask you, um as far as
choreography is concerned how long are you allowed to sit
with the song and how what's what's the creative process
for figuring out what the choreography is? Because I know
you have your own language. So do you talk to

(01:02:28):
the artist first and they have complete trust with you?
Or is it like is it a collaborative thing where
you you know, you and this artist work things out
and or is it the director of the video that
lets you know this? You know this is outer space
and we want this sort of thing, like what's what's
the you walk us through what the creative processes to

(01:02:51):
map out? Yeah, like real love. Sorry, I usually the
artist the last person you end up having a conversation with, right,
because you end up talking to the money people first.
You end up talking to the people who come and
approach you with the concept about this is what we
have the budget for, this is what the look is,
this is what we want to do. You have to
help us tell this story. Then you kind of figure out, Okay,

(01:03:13):
what time period is this, what's the look? How many dancers?
What am I going to do with it? Then you
listen to actual the music, right, and we have to
decide whether you're gonna do lyrical hip hop, meaning you know,
I see you, you know where you're actually the words
or you're just doing feeling and the motion, and everybody's
just ruined. And then of course you got to find
out if your artists can dance or not, and that

(01:03:34):
becomes a whole other thing, right because now if the
artist is ah, who has to let's be who who
had to have a good cinematographer to make it look like? Um,
can I put I'll put him up glasses a little bit.
If you remember the group intro, agree, but it was

(01:04:03):
Buddy who's kind of had left feet, but he he
got on. You just had to work with him a
little bit more. But but you end up telling making
your your choreography so that everybody can do it, because
your job is to make everybody look uniform, and if
they can't get it, you're only as good as your
weakest first, which is the true and the one person
you I will go to is the one person who's

(01:04:23):
out a sink. So that means if they can't get it,
you have to change the choreography so that it works
for them, And that's really what it is. And working
with somebody like Mary, Mary will say that she can't
dance for Mary's gotta move and a bum bob. Yeah,
stand that around the way to grow language. Right between

(01:04:44):
that and you got puffing in your head, going your money.
I need this, I mean whatever. I need that sexy,
that smooth, I need blah blah blah, I need that
hall of I need that whatever. But you already know
what that is, so you, you know, you combine whatever
you see Mary do with the stuff that you already
know what to do. And then you listen to the
song and how it knocks, and you're just like, Okay,
what are we dance? Are we in heels? Are we

(01:05:04):
in combat foods? What's this? You know what I mean?
What are we wearing? And we keep it sexy? Or
we all baggy? Okay? You know you want us hard
Like I love when girls dance harder than the guys.
I love that athleticism, and that's kind of how I
model my dancing, like you know what I mean. But
then if I need to take it off and soften
it up, you expect that of women. So when you
see the opposite, that's kind of what I think people

(01:05:27):
get excited to see. And I think they me ned
dancers straight ahead, or when you saw you know, me
and my girls when we dancing with Keith Sweat, You're like,
oh my god, these girls are getting busy. It's not
just the cute and the this that, because you're used
to seeing that all the time, that jay Z I'll
be good video with the girls. When the guys do,
they think yeah, but that's the process, and then you

(01:05:48):
kind of you gotta you gotta make the artists look
good at the end of the day. So even if
your choreography doesn't suit them, your job is to make
them look like the start if they are supposed to be,
and your choreography will have to up with from it
and you just have to change it, or you just
have to be real creative and find a way to
hide them for eight count bring them back and make
it look a lot, you know what I mean? All right?

(01:06:08):
So what is Has there been a project where it
was like not jankie, but very eleventh hour either the
manager doesn't like the dancing or something and you gotta
change and you got like two hours left to figure
out something real quick? Yo, he can you throw something
together real quick? Like under pressure? Have you ever had

(01:06:31):
that situation? I'm sure that's happened, where like a props
not working, or like a dancer get sick and can't
make the show and whatever's made for like six people
now has to be made for five people because you're
supposed to catch somebody and something like you have to
do those kind of changes, um, or if a piece
of equipment doesn't show up and didn't make it, like
when you're going from city to city on tour and

(01:06:53):
the trampoline doesn't show up and there's this whole like
you have to make those adjustments on the spot. But
that's what darances too, Like it's like fuck it, we're
gonna do this BOT six seven eight, and nobody knows
she's messed up in the audience. The band members might know,
the other dances might know, but we know how to
play it off. And that's part you trained for. So
so you see when all of us fels just two steps,

(01:07:17):
you remember what the Korea is to get back in. Yeah,
have you ever lost the gig? Have you ever gotten
fired from the gig? Yes? I got fired, Me and
Josie got fired. We got hired um to dance with
CC Peniston and CC was being managed by Her name
was Tease. Tease was the niece of one of the

(01:07:39):
girls from No the aunt of one of the girls
from three LLW. So she was married. Yeah uh cc.
So we were doing a bunch of clubs. We did
literally I think the first or second night of shows,
we were doing club hits, like three or four shows
a night, like you know, she had all the gig clubs, poppits,
so we were doing all the like three AM, four
a m. Whatever and teeth falters and said, um, we're

(01:08:02):
not gonna have your girls back. You outshine the artists
and and we literally got fired. I'm like, but that's
why you hired us, because we were good, Like yeah,
but no Josie, Josie and last together. That's a lot.
That's yeah, y'all, y'all superstars, Like thank you. Yeah, I'm

(01:08:24):
curious that when was the last time you saw you
saw some choreography and you were like, now they translated
that vision, like when was the most recent thing you
saw and you were like, listen, whenever I watched Missy
or whenever I watched Beyonce stuff like I had it.
Still I think Missy's choreographer I had is one of
the few females who was in the circle back when

(01:08:45):
I was in the circle, like he was battling and
all that other stuff. And she really switched over to choreography,
probably not before any of us, probably right after I
switched over to television. But she's always been in the clubs,
but her choreography and her choice of the dance singing,
the stuff that she does between the collaborative work with Missy,
it's like Missy. I've never danced for Missy. I would

(01:09:06):
come out of retirement for Missy. I come out of
retirement for her. Justin timber Lag, I come out of
retirement for Beyonce. Of course I laced up absolutely, so yeah,
they impressed me, But their whole thing is a visual
package that I'm just like, from the makeup to the
clothing to like yeah, yeah, I don't know how much

(01:09:28):
longer I can. It's hard for me to go to
a concert and not want to like jump on stage.
So if I can create a project or become a
part of an ensemble project where I can dance again,
I'm all, Yeah, that Beyonce thing don't seem too far
off though that really say that out loud, that don't
really sound toothing like you can get done. I just
I just wanna look crazy. I wanna be a hundred
seven dancing behind a bunch of her home. But they

(01:09:49):
can't keep with your girl. Then, TiO, how did the UM?
We didn't get the full story of the living single?
How you got in operated into the UM just into
the credits? Like that was crazy. Well, when Otis Lee
called me, so he's like, let's I got this vision.
I don't have the job. I just have an idea.

(01:10:11):
So we're gonna shoot it. I just need you to
say yes and be on board with it, and then
we'll figure it out if they take it. So Otis
was like I met him down in Brooklyn underneath the
Brooklyn Bach Bridge, spent all day doing back flips on
cobblestone everything whenever he shot, and literally that last movie
you see where I'm going like this and I fell back.
I was when I saw like one of his edits.

(01:10:36):
I think he only kept like a front flip maybe
and it may not even be in the full version
of the TV show. UM. But he called me one
day said, oh my god, they took it. They took it.
We're gonna be and and we didn't think it was
gonna be as big as it was. We didn't think.
We didn't think past the first airing, We didn't think
past multiple seasons. We didn't think. I didn't think any

(01:10:56):
of that stuff. And sure enough, to this day, that's
probably be one of the things I'm most recognized for,
which is just crazy, even from the new generation, not
to be in your pockets. But does a gig like that,
So I'm trying to say, you don't have to give
me a number because it's living single was still playing
on TV one as we speak in other places? Does
that continue to pay for groceries every week? Does that

(01:11:20):
continue to pay for your hair done twice a month? Like?
Where does? What does it does? Yeah? Would you give residuals?
You asked a million dollar question? Right, Yeah. What happened
with this deal is I did what I never thought
I would do, which is a buyout right one time

(01:11:42):
fact and that's it. But even if I were getting
residuals right now, I get residuals from a lot of stuff,
and they're like the paper costs more than what the
checks are. You get seventeen cents. You know, this show
was almost twenty years old, so I wouldn't be making
any any real money off of bit anyway, but it
served as purpose then at the time, and still yeah,

(01:12:04):
so it does. I think the legacy of it all
and me working with otis is a price. You can't
put anything on the fact that honestly called me. There's
no price for that. M Yeah, you said, Linda Hopp
is your favorite dance U style? How did you get
into that? Well, I'm not all the way into it,
but you see the athleticism of women in dresses, swinging,

(01:12:28):
flipping like it's me all day. Every nuance of that dance,
from the backflips to the front flips, to the energy
because it goes eighty miles a minute, speaks to my personality,
like if I had to describe me in a dance,
that's who I am, is Linda Up. It's crazy that
our grandmothers were like that was their everyday dance. Every
grand mothers knew how to do that right of all sizes,

(01:12:49):
whenever from the ground, no knee pads, yes, not flips, whatever.
We don't care, not trying to be cute. You don't
care what I and they still look cute, like we
don't care about what our hair and or whatever, but
they still look cute before and after the whole like
a press out. Yeah, the press out, not even press out,
y'all know where to press out is, right, Stephen? No,

(01:13:11):
I mean it's the head's of hair. Do what you need.
It's what Steve looks like right now. Needs all serious?
Is the Is the Lindy Hop related to the Lindy
Yeah the same thing. Yeah, yeah, small in the same family,

(01:13:37):
but Lindy Hop is like something you would see literally
at the Cotton Club and all these just you know,
what was the woman that Brady Bunch did the Charleston
Was that a dance? Yeah? Hilarious, Steve, Why do I
only know that reference were remember that episode the hands
on knees crossed over right in the back of the

(01:13:59):
back of front Carls. So yeah, before she can you
tell us about your dance documentary? Because I used to
want to be a dancer, but then I grew the breast,
So I am so into it. And did you ever
get your Debbie Alla moment? I'm trump stalking Debbie all
and now to try and get these interviews. This damn
COVID has been a pain in the ass man. He's

(01:14:22):
a cock blocker. It's a production. I don't know if
I'm being a top blocker. You have to have that
pre COVID so you can lock that. But um, it's
about stop. Trust me. You know I had the clean
house before then, unfortunately, and I'm hoping to talk about
that too. Yeah, you had the clean house, like you
got rid of like years and we broke up before

(01:14:46):
the pandemic and stuff. You're fifteen. I found out he
had been having an affair with one of the usher's
dances for two years. We're trying to work stuff out.
I found out there was another chick who had been
around for eight years, and so in order from not
to get my remy mall on or end up in
an orange jumpsuit, I had to put them out. So,
oh he was living You were living together at the time.

(01:15:11):
Day one. People always like, how do you not know?
I mean, granted, I'm a chick on tour and I've
seen multiple affairs and stuff happen, right, but this is
somebody who really, other than being on tour, never went out.
We had a studio in the back or whatever, but
the whole all the relationships were the chick he met
in Australia like this on zoom or FaceTime or whatever

(01:15:32):
and masturbation sessions, and you said, well, no, they were
physical because us just dancer only lived a couple of
blocks away, and so whenever I had to go out
of town or whatever, they would hook up. Or the
whole time that they were on the road and I
couldn't get out to the cities, you know, they were
hooking up. So and when you with somebody who you
can call at four o'clock and Morocco and be on

(01:15:54):
the phone or FaceTime and and see everybody in the room,
you don't realize the other chick might be on the
other side of the computer or he'll be like go
to your room, out for you and saying I love you.
You mean my world to me. We're trying to have
a family, all these things in your face and then
doing all this other stuff over here. So girl, why

(01:16:14):
would you still doing why are you yeah, begging this
day and all the way? Seriously though, les, I wonder
it's about me and my my my music industry sister,
and why do we dip and dive in our in
our pond, Like why don't you yes, you know you're
just child you're just children. Huh, the very at the
very least on a good day, your children. You know

(01:16:35):
what I'm saying. Okay, so I'm and I'm caring for
a grown as woman like Les. I'm like, so it's
time to get a contractor accountant. I mind you, I said,
it's a matter. I'm at the Social services myself. Oh at,
iudated all kinds of guys. It doesn't matter, man, it's
gone sheet. He wants to cheat, right. They have that

(01:16:57):
fear of missing out, And it doesn't matter whether you're
a rock star and tour and everything's easy for you,
or if you go into an office and the chick
who sits in the cubicle next to you is throwing
pussy at you. It doesn't matter if that. You know,
one John Sally said to me, the best pussies new pussy.
And that's why men cheat, and men get curious or
the minute that you know they feel like you're not
giving them the attention, or they get more attention over there,

(01:17:18):
or they're having a midlife crisis, or their ego needs
to be fed or whatever is. You know, they're gonna
my men, and I'm not. I'm just I'm listening to talk,
but now say that women don't cheat either, some girls
who who are cheating as to who are married and
cheating on their husbands and whatever that is. And I'm
just like, why when you can have a conversation and

(01:17:38):
you don't have to be married, you don't have to
be in a relationship. You can decide to be single
for the rest of your life and have as many
women as you want, and even choose the one you
want to have a kid with. You can choose the
one you want to stay over four days a week. Like,
you can have those conversations and live the life you want.
You don't have to be like this is us, this
is me, Like we're three, We have done our life
insurance policy, a living trust, me at on our wills,

(01:18:00):
are health happy, all this stuff except for being officially married.
We were trying to have a family together. Why are
you still trying to have a family with me if
you're unhappy? And then I find out about the affair
and you're begging not to end it, so obviously you're
not that unhappy. You just wanted a little taste, a
little taste, and we don't need to be together, and
you just found out at the end like this is

(01:18:21):
recently before became the end. Yeah, it became the end. You're,
like I said, And I'm not one who's very forgiving.
I'm usually very light up. And so when I found
out your year fifteen and a half together, um, and
literally I'm not a snooper. Did none of that. He
said something that made me just be like, wait what?

(01:18:41):
And I looked at one thing and then everything un rally.
God puts everything in your face. And I had names, addresses, emails,
text messages, receipts, all of that stuff. So I talked
to like twelve different people, couples who were married. Eleven
of the twelve were like, go to therapy, try and
find forgive this. See what that looks like for you.

(01:19:02):
Give it another shot. Four months in I find out
about the chick who've been around for eight years in Australia.
We're not talking one night stance. We're talking and ships.
We're talking emotional connections. We're talking emails. We're talking gifts.
We're talking you put money, taking money out of routs,
hold into their household. We're talking you have an unprotected
sex and now you're putting my health at risk and

(01:19:23):
if I had made a phone call or if I
was that chick on an episode of Snap I We're talking,
we're your girls, that I got to a point where,
um once I put him out and California does not
have um uh oh my god, what do you call it?
Not that common law? Common law doesn't exist. It hasn't

(01:19:47):
existed since like the yea, I knew that, and all
the properties were mine, and so I realized I did
have a case. You can't just treat somebody like that,
put their health at risk, make promises to the so
that now I'm holding myself out for you and instead
of I could have had a whole family with somebody else.
So they don't know about our time. They don't know

(01:20:08):
how precious our time is. I don't know why these
motherfucker's keep playing with our time. It's life is not
even I'm sorry, but to empower women have options and
recognizing that that you can't do that to other people.
So him putting my risk and you know, thank god,
I didn't catch anything really really talking to me in
ours jumpsuit. But the fact that happened, or the fact

(01:20:29):
that you know you wasted my time or made promises,
it came with a price, and there's not any amount
of money that's gonna get my time back, my fertility back,
and none of that. But I guarantee you every time
that check, that check shows up, it shows how expensive
that extracurricular pussy was for him. So, y'all he has

(01:20:51):
I can only say the word settlement, but abster fucking movie.
On my tears, I had to remind you all. I
was remind myself that my cake was in the back,
like I'm a New York chick. Wait a minute, what
just happened? Enough, my time is money. My time is money.
So to all you out there, you got to teach
your daughters they don't have to stand for no bullshit.

(01:21:13):
Teach your sons that they don't have to be in
a relationship that doesn't have an explanation of terms about
what it is you want because other people. You don't
have to be married, we don't have to live together.
We I can agree, or you can be with somebody else,
And all you have to do is say three words,
I'm not happy, this ain't working. I want out right.
Not all these years of all this extracurricular stuff that

(01:21:36):
was devastating, was absolutely devastating to me. I've never been
so broken in my life, you know, to the point
where you have to like go to therapy to talk
to someone because you're tired of talking to your friends.
And every time you come around and you're like, oh,
here she come again, acting all that thought that you
don't even recognize who you are because this person that
you trust, right, if it's somebody you don't know, you're

(01:21:57):
not that devastated by the disappointment or the broken. It's
the people that are closest to you, that you trust
with your life that devastates you and betray you. And
that long time, absolutely I would have given this due
to kidney and I think in our families were so
close to the point where my mom would fly to
Texas and stay with his mom or he you know,
stay fly to New York or whatever. So you're breaking

(01:22:18):
up families. I was the sister's um, the godmother of
his his niece. You know, I can't talk to them
anymore of the you know, all this stuff, mother to
his sister's son, all of that. So because you wanted
some extra pussy you talk about when you talk about
the settlement, I know you can't say we're about the settlement.
What was it on the grounds of um, the grounds

(01:22:41):
of the suit on the grounds of the fact that
he put my health at risk. I'm speaking out of
not legal terms, but there's the term, but putting my
health at risk for making promises for um uh, he
meant I was able to prove that he had promised

(01:23:02):
to take care of me. We're in this relationship, blah
blah blah. Financial contributions and all that other stuff. Yeah,
there were there were a lot of grounds that he
had to be held accountable for. That is, I couldn't
mention the affairs. So it wasn't even about the affairs.
It was about the only thing in which the affair
maybe played a part in was because my health was

(01:23:22):
a thing that he had um intentional intention to harm
I think it's what it's called or something like um.
But the affairs had no play in it. And it
had to be that because we were living as husband
and wife for seventeen years that there's a price on it. Now,
have we been married in California for like ten years
and he automatically would have had to pay five years.
If we were married, say nine years and eleven months,

(01:23:44):
then the price is negotiable. I fall under. Even with
the promises that I was able to prove, you know,
him taking care of me and the life that we're
gonna lead and that we were starting to have a
family and doing all this other stuff, I fall under
the negotiation whatever, and so he opted for mediation, and
that's what happened. But there's yeah, it's a class. At

(01:24:09):
the least it's there. It's a class. I'm there. I
literally started to google stuff, and I knew because like
I've always done my paper. My mother always said, if
you have kids, or if your own property, make sure
your trust and your will are done so that you
never have to deal with it again. And even when
I bought my first property in nine one or whatever
it was, I made sure that it was taking care

(01:24:29):
of in or trust. So then I bought a house.
He moved into both properties with me. Um, I was
smart enough, even though I included him as beneficiary on
certain things to sign um something I said, even with
the equity that he couldn't gain anything because he tried
to come after my property. But being a smart street,
smart book, smart chick, he couldn't get it. So but yeah,

(01:24:51):
I literally just was googling some stuff and then when
I realized that there was no common along California, but
I actually had other rights, and that there's something that's
called the Marvin claim or a case that was called
Marvin versus Marvin, where you live with someone. Now they
have like cohabitation laws, but when you live with someone
under the guise of being a family and being supported
in that way, and you can prove it whether I

(01:25:13):
didn't have to quit a job just to say I'm
helping him with his business, but clearly I did along
the way. There's a price that needs to be paid
for that. So women have rights. And I'll just say
this to you guys again, Like I said, you don't
have to enter the women out there who are cheating.
You can have a relationship where you can have twenty
partners and nobody has to get hurt and everybody is agreeable.

(01:25:34):
You know, you want to be married and cheat and
just be like, I'm not happy, that's what it is,
and get out. But you don't have to cause all
that damage and all that wreckage and all that be
trust to put somebody's health at risk for all of that,
and all the women who don't know what to do,
get yourself a lawyer, and do what you need to do.
M I'm glad you learned this lesson before March. Yeah.

(01:25:57):
I couldn't imagine being quarantined with somebody like that the
most pregnancy and the most breakups I've ever seen in
my Like, yeah, ship, I'm lucky with grazy because everyone
else is falling by the way that the divorce rates
have like tripled during this corn right, because you're either

(01:26:17):
with either you're romanticizing the fact that you're in this
COVID or you're with somebody that you didn't really want
to be with anyway. And you guys were on the
verge and people and now are just like if they're
filing between the kids and this and that or whatever.
You know. So I'm like, even in my book and
all that other stuff I'm working on, I'll be very
open about the details about how I found out what happened.

(01:26:37):
I Mean, it's crazy because every people who know don't
want to say anything, and then once they find out that,
you know, people start talking. So even with his friends
start whatever. But I don't know how I became like
super sloop and things to start falling in your lap.
When you start paying attention, because when you're with somebody
you trust, you don't feel like you have to look
at anything else. So you just kind of this business

(01:26:59):
as you sure, and then when you start remembering when
such and such happened, or the day that he said
he was going to the studio, and I'm like, why
are you got on so much cologne? All the bottle spilled? Wait,
but that night because I didn't think twice about you

(01:27:20):
know what I mean. So yeah, But the documentary, as
you asked me about, is about the women of nineties
hip hop dancing. Because we always hear about the rock
Steady Crew, Like I even had a conversation with rock
people Cannon of the hip hop and jam and all.
They always talk about it just the guys or the
rock Steady crew, who I love crazy legs. It was,
it was like, those are my guys, and I'm like,
you're forgetting about the whole Golden era. You forget about

(01:27:42):
what these women have contributed to, these visuals that are
art like give us our love. So I wanted you
all to slow down that don't rush video. I was like, wait,
that's who that's my grow friend at the age of
the video that's oh wait yea, so that it was
a nice listen. I'm in a place now. I can't
talk to John Singleton, I can't talked to Heavy D.
I can't cook to Michael, I can't talk to Whitney.

(01:28:04):
I can't talk to Andre Horrell to get these stories
told me some of the most iconic pieces of work,
you know, less to talk about. And Andre and I
had literally had scheduled, um, you know, getting on camera
and stuff, and you know this happened. You know, I
just think God interview with Teddy Riley and stuff. I
gotta get my mom on camera, you know what I mean. Like,

(01:28:24):
these stories have to be told. And I'm sure the
same for you, Quess, Like all these people you've worked
for and everyone else you've cross path with, all these
people and part of your history and your legacy, and
you want to get the best version of you know,
the things that you imagine or didn't even imagine for
yourself as an eight year old kid. And here you
are at the highest level or at these experiences, whether

(01:28:45):
they come back around and not, and you want to
be able to let hear what these people thought about you,
or why they hired you or what it is you
got to the table and you can't and how you
created I don't think any of us went into it
with an intention other than to do what we love,
you know, and I'm glad it's resonated. So wow wow, Well,

(01:29:09):
thank you for sharing your story with us, Les, Yeah,
thank you for real and thank you you were as
a latchkey talk about being a latchkey kid in New York.
I was a latchkey kid in North Carolina in Greensboro,
and I used to come home every day and I
will watch Rap City and you were my babysitter for
like two years. So much love and appreciation for all

(01:29:32):
you've done. Seriously, Yeah, we thank you for being our
baby everybody, and thank you for redefining a woman. Thank
you for red to find a woman image of a
woman on TV. Like that's amazing. Yes, yes, Like even
when they was like that name big lads, I mean
because in the South, I'm like, she ain't big. I
can show you, I can show you big. You want
to see big, she ain't big gray, because it went

(01:29:54):
from from being like I see people whore like you're
not that big, yeah, I think, or people are like
she must be being because of Last. I'm like, I've
heard that since Oh Ship, nothing else, Tim, Timothy, Dave,
David les Leslie. That's it. It's just that simple. Otherwise
I have a book deal on the TV show like Ellen,
if I look, please, You'll have it. Last. You are loved,

(01:30:20):
You are loved. Just know that, Ladies and gentlemen on
behalf of Fontigolo and I'm Bill and Sugar Steve and like, yeah,
thank you, Love Supreme. We will see you on the
next girlround. YEA, love you guys. What's Love Supreme is

(01:30:45):
a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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