Brian Alexander Morgan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Course Love Supreme.
IM who's so much love? We have the Supreme in
the house. We have uh year are you doing out there?
Guys and all? Yes, yes, yes, I'm still here. I'm

(00:22):
not on not on fire. Okay, Yeah, that's good to hear.
Uh we have fine take a little and right yeah,
cooler man, cooler. This was raining out here today, so
cool and uh sugar Steve Greetings, Hello everybody, Team Supreme.
I love you. I love you said. That's like Michael

(00:44):
Jackson like that. Hello, I like that? Yeah exactly. Um okay, So,
ladies and gentlemen, I will say that today is one
of those those I guess you could say. The special
deep cut episode is of course Love Supream, which we
explore and sec work and the history some of our

(01:07):
favorite too. Otherwise wouldn't receive their flowers while here, And
I guess is that person? Uh? In my book, he
has resume is extensive and legendary ethnic resume because there's
a lot of it. To Drake to Tamore Braxton, to
Faith Evans, to Joe Jodan Nesby, Erne to Walsh, Persia

(01:30):
was about half away. But you know it's without no
doubt that his work on the bona fide classic lp
uh It's about Time by Sisters with Voices STPD, which
he made his mark creating hit after hit, classic after classic,
John after John. In my opinion, Week is probably neck

(01:53):
and neck with Live, Lift Every Voice and Sing as
as the Black National Anthem. Actually I think we edges
it out because unlike Lift Every Voice and Sing, I
know the bridge to Week by heart at least that right,

(02:13):
you know? But yeah, what more can I say? Ladies
and gentlemen, We've been waiting for this one. Please welcome
to Quest Love Supreme. Mr Brian Alexander Morgan. Thank you,
Thank you, sir, thank you, thank you, Thank you all
you guys, fans for life, fans forever forget it, a huge, huge,
huge fans of everybody. So than so, where are you

(02:35):
right now? Bro? What am I right now? Is that? What?
I'm at home? Okay? You know, East Coast, West Coast,
l A am bad l a H the valley out
you know, you know, yeah, I think last time we
hung out it was when you were in Sacramento. This

(02:56):
was Scott. It was after it was after Farnes Chang
Show and Sis Smith. She was like, yeah, y'all that
big shot to side Man side knows everybody and she
was like, yo, y'all want to go. Brandon's in the
Morgan wants us to come by. I was like, yeah, yeah,
that was I was ten years ago. It was easy

(03:17):
and I was a huge fan of what you were
doing then, just loving it. Bro. I had no idea
you knew who we were when I when I got
the creators, when I realized how much of a head
you were when your kitchen and you had CDs in
your cabinets where the glasses should be. Yes, yeah, I said,
he really about that life. And I'm a huge little
Brother fan, huge roots fan, black Dog one of my

(03:40):
Oh my god, we can talk about pins. Oh my god.
I've been from day one. I was a I was
a fan of Quest credits just from day one because
he appreciate Because he appreciated credits, I called it all.
I was like, Okay, then there go, man, Look that's
real talk all day. Do we I believe did we not?

(04:01):
I don't know if we met at our very first show.
We had a show in Sacramento like back. Yes, yes, yes,
I think I met you and Rathiel Sadik the same
day at the very first Man That nightclub, right, yeah,
I remember that. Okay, So I remember, sir, yes, sir,

(04:22):
and then I saw you again. Next time I saw
you a game was years later, and I had on
that Donnie hath the Way to Joint, that Donnie Hathway shirt.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, I know that you Well,
You're home base was kind of Sacramento, but um, you
were born in all places, Wichita, Kansas. Describe growing up

(04:44):
in Wichita. How long did you stay there before? Man,
you know what Wichita is some of the hottest talent
you'll never hear, is what I like to say, because
when you're there, it seems impossible to be on join
at least back then, not now because you can do
anything on the on the internet now. But when I

(05:05):
was there, listen, Charlie Wilson um Rogers that all that
Midwest funk, all that stuff is the holy Grail because
we perceived them as people who got out of the Midwest,
Like okay, even baby Face and all that stuff from Cincinnati, Cleveland,
pick a thing. It's rude boys. There's always that Midwest
funk Shirley Murdoch. Uh. And plus you go way back,

(05:26):
you know of course, Ohio players games, and so there's
always been this element of whoever makes it out of there,
we feel like, oh, they, the gods made it out.
For example, Charlie himself, gap man, they have been struggling
for years before that before they finally broke through. So
I feel like me being from which time I was

(05:47):
just another one in that long line of oh my god,
he made it out. So what was the music environment
like in like, what's your first musical memory from your childhood? Oh? Man,
I can tell you that right off the top. Michael Jackson.
Of course, they the purity of Michael's voice and I
want you back ABC, I'll be there. Uh touched me

(06:07):
beyond beyond right. And then you add Stevie Wonder to that,
and and the progressive stuff he was doing on those
keys really got I wasn't playing yet. I just started
playing until I was like ten and like sev seventy six.
But between seventy and seventy five, man, it was Stevie,
Donnie Hathaway, Michael Jackson. Those were the three voices that

(06:28):
really changed my life. Now later on in the late seventies,
it was the Clark Sisters that that changed everything. Is
that turned That was a paradigm shift from in seventy nine,
which is my living in Vain. Everything changed again. But
I don't want to get ahead of myself. No, I
can tell by how you stack your harm And he's like,
I can see that influence. You hear that, Yeah, no doubt,

(06:49):
I hear that. So yeah, are you from a musical
family or like, let me give it up to my pops.
He made a record when I was like two in
sixty eight and in the forty five Quest and I
still have it and me and my my dad is
the only one. Let my mom's gone, my sister's gone,
rest in peace, but my father and I. He thought
he was Jimmy Hendrix back when Jimmy was you know,

(07:10):
the ship. So I grew up in the house that
was he was playing not only the Slide of the
family stone stuff and the and the funk stuff, but
he was also playing Hendrix and Santana and all those
rock joints. He love led Zeppelin. So I'm a truly
amalgamation of all of that bro all of it. My
dad thought he was Jimmy seriously with the friends wearing friends.

(07:32):
We had beads in the house, and you know, it
was that, Yes, it was the only Yeah, you know,
you know, absolutely, you know. But my dad was a
guitar player, man, And that's the only musician that I
ever saw first in my life was a guitar player.

(07:53):
And he had rehearsals at the house too. That also
was mind blowing to hear musicians play in your house
and your house is only a two bedroom house. It
was very, very impactful to a little me. What did
your folks do? Um? What for a living? My crazy
crazy thing. Another thing I got from my dad reading reading.
My dad worked as a librarian at a at a huge,

(08:15):
big Metropolitan library in which like the biggest in the city,
and he drove a bookmobile to the hood, to the
hood books, letting black kids come read in the bookmobile.
So that was a huge influence on me as well.
Book I've heard I've seen that on television. So was
that like the book version of the ice Cream Man?

(08:36):
Totally just drop books to the hood, and you know,
it's crazy, Like I don't think you could do that now.
It's like it would be like people be like, what
the hell, but no, it would bring the book, the
food man and the book man back, bring it back,
bro and you know what, and thank God for you
get you get your mouth yea, Ellen Harris. Yeah, back

(09:14):
to the influence my mom know what she did. She
was just a secretary at a construction place. But it
was her church going that was the different. When my
mom and dad converted. My dad was absolutely not religious
and all about African, miss African that my mom was
completely Jesus, Jesus, all church all the time. You didn't

(09:35):
like saying in the church or playing the church. Of
course I did, of course. Okay, that's that's the training
right there at the beginning. But now I gotta keep
it one hunter because everybody listen, I gotta keep it
one hunterd I grew up Baptist and so it was
all about Andre Crouch and and James Cleveland and what
we love. But checked this it was when I went

(09:56):
to the coaching church for the first time, right and
heard the collections, you know, I heard that little swag
on you know, drummers was really really drumming. Was like, oh,
so I kind of switched over a little bit. Explain
that to me. So, what's the difference in you're saying
in Baptist Church it's just very traditional neat potatoes gospel

(10:19):
boon and you were allowed to be more so, is
this a nondenomination in church or what was it? The
second the Church God in Christ learned as the Church
or pentecostal Um. They they had a history of literally
trying to play records that sounded like you know, the

(10:41):
streets for for for lack of a better word, Okay,
I haven't. Yeah, I have an obsession with collecting next
to Jamaican music. Um, I have a really large collection
of like gospel acts trying to turn secular songs and
the gospel joints like I got Set in Time around
by shallow Mark hilarious. Oh I got yeah. I have

(11:04):
so much. I'm gonna do it on my DJ sets
one night, Like just do it bro upside down by
you gotta be pinning me, Oh dude. All I do
is collect like really bad cover songs and gospel secularizing.
There's a really good one for the Jackson's can you
feel it? But yeah, it's like wow, let me give

(11:26):
you another another thing about that particular subject. There were
certain producers at the time that were capturing it though
they were really nailing it, Like this guy, I gotta
give him math problems, Bill Maxwell. He used to produce
the Andre Croutch records. Them joints sounded like earth Wind
and Fire productions. You hear me, like pristine, ridiculous, funky,

(11:46):
punchy mixes. And I was as a kid, you know,
like the late seventies, me thirteen year old me. I
was thirteen and seventy nine. That's when I started paying
attention to mixing and the production. So you talk about
the Off the Wall was out at the time, um
so Living in Vain came out at that time. Stevie
hit his tride with Hotter Than July eighty so a

(12:07):
lot of things was happening in that mixing part. So
my very first time in the studio making my own
record was like eighty one and it was gospel, but
of course I was trying to do what was in
the streets too, So I did a joint. It sounded
like Sherylan's got to be real. I think it didn't
really Hell yeah, absolutely, that's insane. Yeah, I'll get you that.

(12:29):
And I got a lot of gospel stuff that we
did in that era. But trust me when I tell
you it was, it was. It was from a good
reference point. Thomas Whitfield in Detroit production Pristine on Vanessa
bell Armstrong by the time, by the time Commission came
out in eighty five, Can you explain? All right? So
here's the deal. I grew up like my era of musicianship,

(12:52):
especially with all the cats that I encountered in my
age range Um, take all the jazz cats out, So
those who were non jazz cats, you were either a
prince head or you were commissioned head. And of course
you know every cat I know now that's deep on
gospel chaps. M hm. Commission is their foundation. Can you

(13:17):
explain to me, like a majority of R and B
musicians first generation from like to like two thousand and
one two, what what is the obsession with Commission? Like?
What was it about them that just grabbed Was that
like the closest y'all could get to secular music that

(13:39):
mom and dad would allow in the house or whatever,
like or live? Were they just some next level craziness?
Great question. I can answer you like this for me
speaking for my generation literally coming from like I said,
the Hawkins and Andrea and those guys in the late
seventies into the eighties when drum machine became a thing,

(14:01):
production literally changed because of Prince Right, so commission and
I remember all we had before that was the Whinings
with with voices like that, and they were incredible. And
again but you're still talking live there and that's Phil
Maxwell again, same producer, same producers, Andre Krauss. That one
guy gave us all those brilliant Andre Crowds records and
all those brilliant Whinings Whinings records prior to Quincy signing them. Okay,

(14:26):
so that production standard and that whole um vibe came
right into the eighties with drum machines and all the
stuff that we grew up on. Quest So like what
happened was when we first heard Fred Hammond's voice, we
are liking it. We're liking it to the Whinings. You know,
that big, powerful voice coming like from Marvin Winners. But
we had never heard it from such a young person

(14:49):
besides Johnny gil you know that, you know what I mean,
Somebody film and shoot Johnny, that's my guy. But friend
was a young boy back in yes I knows, Uncle
Fred no no, the very first album. Get familiar with
all of their whole catalog because what happened was it
changed our lives. But what they did that I liked
about them was that they not only had the gospel shops,

(15:12):
but they had a David Foster flavor all through their
whole box. Like and I'm not joking, I'm talking about
the yeah, but with the shops, but with the shops
of of you know, my inspiration by Chicago, you know
what I mean. So that was the difference between the
Windings and Commission. Commission gave you that no no no

(15:35):
no no no no no no no, those kind of melodies.
That wasn't that way with Tomorrow. Uh that was later. Well, no,
they were, they were on it, but they weren't young.
Commission was young, and that changed it because when they
saw young people doing it. I went to their shows,

(15:56):
so I could see the audience change, you know what
I mean, Like all of a sudden, they went from
older people vibing on the Windings and the Hawkins and
the Clock and the all that to fool young kids
that would have been otherwise in the club at a
hip hop thing. Are all of a sudden at a
commission commission, that's right and so but now, but they
got hip though, so Tremaine Hawkins and then got hip,
Clark sisters got everybody got hit and was like yo,

(16:18):
they started doing stuff that they could play. Fall down
on Tremaine is a direct result of that. And that's right,
that's right, that's right. Right. But because they got hip
to the kids was picking it up and they would
put it in the club. And you're about the Sunshine
was the biggest, biggest, biggest joint of that type of thing.
But that was just following Stevie. But I'm saying, as
far as really young people, commission is the paradigm ship

(16:41):
is what I want to say. Question y'all got me
downloading a bunch of Gospels. I was gonna say, uh,
you know, there was some gospel in my crib, like
and I see what you're saying. Uh. Andre Crouch's Perfect
Piece is a great example, good record of that. Uh
yeah of that. And I think my dad had the

(17:05):
the Hawkins Family album which Mary's White actually did the
first song with him or something like that. So they
got joints, bro, they got joints. Holy one, have you
heard Jermaine's Holy One. Oh my goodness, you got certain
first album, very the first album with look at Me
Look Yeah, the Holy One is on there. Yeah, I

(17:27):
know that whole album left it right. My parents went
through a really weird Christian phase for like a good
four years. So yeah, for every Prince album that got broken,
I had to, you know, be a exercise with Chremine Hawknsrucort.
So I got you stick a pin in this. When
I got to Sacramento, because I'm jumping I'm not jumping
ahead to my Sacramento and how I got there. But

(17:47):
when I got there, one of the first people that
I got to meet was Fred Hammond and Mitchell Jones
from Commission Becauz Waymon Tisdale was a Sacramento king and
also an incredible musician, and I was that he was there.
He had a m yeah yeah, it was athlete was
coming to base two right, yeah, musician yeah wow, oh yeah.

(18:08):
He was definitely a major athlete um and came out Oklahoma.
So we had the gap connect Charlie connect. But trust
me when I tell you, all those people came through
Raymon's house and I met them over there. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
I just want to talk. Yeah, so what was your
what was your what's the first concert you ever attended
when you were Uh, that's a great question, oh man.

(18:30):
The most significant one would had to be the Victory
Tour opening day and and uh and were there too, Yes, sir, yes, sir,
you went. You went to the opening night open the
night Strips, absolutely, yeah, Stripe Pans Night, well, the Democrats.
I believe the Democratic Convention was also in Kansas for

(18:55):
that period. And you know, I did enough Bagan, but
my my dad and my mom, and I like, amazing, amazing.
I went to the third night when you're by yourself,
by yourself, no, my mom, my dad, and my sister,
my my dad. Uh. This is one of the times
where like one of his brain haired schemes worked, which
was he was like, we're gonna scalp the scalpers And

(19:15):
I was like, what does that mean. He's like, we're
gonna wait five minutes into the show. See, you gotta
be on im mense faith West Philadelphia, drive all the
way to get Kansas City and we're just sitting in there,
you know, and I'm twelve, man, so I'm my nerves
are all you know, because I ain't paying thirty dollar

(19:36):
for no ticket, but I bet you'll get him down
to town. And in about two minutes before the show, bam,
we got, we got. We got four Victory Tour tickets
for ten bucks. Original was the original stuff? Hudamn, right up,
straight up, Yo, that's crazy. And guess what, there's some

(19:57):
footage somewhere floating around of Mary Hart for Entertainment Tonight
interviewed my ask what said her name? In a minute?
Resist hard, No said her name, and it's not good
and that's her When I was man, you got to

(20:19):
choose the side right now, bro, that's I did not
know that. You guys are hit to me. I did
not know that. And crazy. So what was it like
in what was your your band situation or your like
your your high school situation, like were you in any

(20:42):
local bands at the time or yes? And you know
what was your development moment that brought you to musicianship?
Totally crazy? Okay, So starting in the church, I saw
the thirteen year old little girl playing keys. It was
the pastor's daughter. That was my first, Wow, a young
person can do this. So that was huge for me
to see her doing that. And then when they added

(21:02):
drums at our church and took us. Took them a
while to let them let them do that because they
were so conservative. But once they did that, my mom. Look,
my mom was the church secretary, so pete this. So
the drummer would always leave his drums at the church.
So when my mom would go to do the secretary
stuff and on Saturdays, I would go with her just
to jump on that dude's drums. Okay, So I started

(21:23):
out drumming before I could play keys. And then and
that changed my whole life because I was like, man,
drumming is like the thing I thought. That's what I
thought I was gonna be doing. But then I kept
getting on those keys trying to you know, how you
pick out melodies and stuff. And I got better and
better at picking out melodies. You know, I was like, man,
maybe I'm supposed to play. So I just started listening.
And then I got embarrassed by better players than me,

(21:44):
and I was like, whoa, I'm nowhere near I gotta
get my you know, step my game up. These guys
are playing Herbie Hancock. I'm in here playing soon and
very soon. What the hell? You know? It's good to
know that I thought I was the only one that
went through that that whole thing. Like there was a
period maybe like two months where I drummed in my
local church. But you know, I was trying to play

(22:07):
funk rhythms and whatnot, and they actually had to have
a meeting or whether or not my playing was uplifting
the Lord or like that's how strict they were. Like. So,
because the thing was when I would playing all the
you know, they'd be like, oh, like I tried to
play like from seas By, like a popular breakbeat inside

(22:27):
the music, and it's like the kids news. So they
started doing the wife and everything in church, the deacons like,
sit down, so look and see. And hence that's why
I left the particular church I was at and I
went to play for a coaching church. And when I
got to the coaching church, I had my full on
keyboard and drum machine in that bad but when we

(22:48):
play you about the Sunshine, it sounded like You're about
the Sunshine. And then all my commission stuff, I programmed
it the night before, quest programmed all the beats and
fields and crashes and everything, and so I when I played,
so when I played the commission, joint and sounded like
the record. Yeah, we lyndrum all day. Wow, you got

(23:10):
Lyndam that early? I got a Lyndrum and as soon
as it came out, it was I got it in
eighty three. I think it was eighty three. They are
they all want They had one out in eighty two,
but it was in California, my friends had I heard
about it, but but I got one in a three. Yeah.
How many launch did you have that mood to get that?
You know? Listen, this here's the good news about how

(23:31):
my development happened. In Wichita, there was this white guy
named John Miller. John Miller owned what would be the
equivalent of the guitar center in a majority Okay, he
had his own music store like that. So we had
all the new keyboards, all the new drum machines earlier
than everybody, right and so. But he also had a
recording studio, a sixteen track recording studio. So this is

(23:51):
what happened. So he said, I used to go in
there and just play on all his gear because of course,
you know, being broke poor, that's where I got a
chance to play. So the people of the specially the
white people that would this is Kansas. So the white
people that would come in there and hear me playing
on stuff would ask, you know what my name was?
What am I doing? So John got hit piece like yo,
you know what, I got a studio I want to
promote and if you come in there and I'll give
you free studio time, if you can go in there

(24:14):
and do some work. I did a demo in there, bro.
That gospel demo is the demo that got me my
record deal on Warner Brothers. Yeah, wow, yes, sir, yes, sir.
That demo I did in that studio got me the
record deal that Bennie mcdina signed me to in eighty seven.
I did it in eighty five. I did it in
eighty six. By eighty seven, J King came through which

(24:36):
to Kansas and heard that demo and I cannot wait
to hear your J. Kings stories waiting and waiting for
some J. King you know. Yes, So this is to
give people some contact. So this is social club, yes,

(24:58):
so this is eventually Tony Tony Tony absolutely, yes, right,
he came from all that, okay, and that's my people.
So how did I get from which is til of
the Sacramento Just that way a friend of mine named
Steve Williams. I got a shout out my boy Steve Williams,
because Steve Williams was the person who was the biggest
Club New Vot fan I ever met in my life,

(25:18):
like a full on stand right, And of course I
was arrogant. I'm snooty nose Fred Hammond Clark sisters. Guy.
Don't then people can't sing? What are you talking about? Yeah?
I was. I was very I was a quest of
very snob situation. Like because I know quest and snob,
you think, no, bro, I'm talking like when I'm talking singing,
we're talking about the female in the group. You know

(25:41):
what I'm saying. So it look so I'm not trying
to be funny. I'm just saying I was just that
that arrogant guy. You feel me? So I wouldn't even
paying no attention to the freaking Club New Vote at
that time, um now and rumors. I thought that was
a joke. I was like, is that a is that
like a joke? I thought somebody, Yeah, I'm talking about

(26:02):
how I was like, okay, what is that Eddie Murphy?
What then is this? And then no, it was because
then because if you remember that was the joke. But
long story short, the guys that put that put that record.
That was Jay King. He put that old label and
that jow blew the hell up and when pop and
it was when all of a sudden they were on

(26:23):
tour with Run DMC and motherfucking Beastie Boys. Okay, when
that happened, I was like, wow, this is a real record, right.
I never thought nothing else about that six uh, and
I still got my gospel. Them we're trying to get
signed to A and M Records. We had a little
manager and they was trying to get A signed to
A and M because John McClain signed Janet had just

(26:46):
done the fall Down record. What you mean right, so
we we thought, hey we could It was me And
when I say we, it was a group called cash
A that I was in it like a light green
drink right there. Dave why Hypnotic as a part of

(27:11):
the listen. I was trying to be all in since
j King found me and signed me. I was trying
to be all in the Freaks State Club, New Vote
and you know, so I just said that stupid ship.
It's just been right right right. It's just a unique
voice supposedly, and it was spelled c A C H

(27:31):
E T D E v O. I s oh wow,
like like that's right, that's right, that's right. And you
know what. Shout out to my girl, Shelle Matheny, who
I grew up with, my home girl from which time
she was in that group with me. And rest in

(27:52):
peace to James Williams who was also in that group.
He passed away that but guess what, Jake One just
sampled some something from that very album only last year,
that unreleased, that unreleased Warner Brothers album. Can you feel Me? Like?
People find they find stuff? Bro Ain't that crazy? But anyway,
long stories, So back to j King's Okay, So Ja

(28:13):
King blows up with TIMEX Social Club. They fall out
and then the only thing left is Denny and Tommy
and and uh and Jay King and then he puts
in Samuel and Valve. That becomes Club New Vote. All right,
So now I'm still in witch time. My first visit
to l A was trying to get sign the A
and M with John McClain. John was actually interested and

(28:34):
we thought we had a deal on the table. So
I'm kind of a little feeling a little cocky and
thinking that, Oh, John McClain said, he's interested. So when
I get back to witch Ta and I'm just in
this in between time, my friend Steve the club New
Vote Stand calls me from JA King's hotel room late
like two in the morning, something crazy and he calls
me and I'm still living with my mom, so she's

(28:56):
like you, what the hell? So I nswered the phone.
His name is Steve Williams, goes, hey, you gotta get
down here. I'll let J King hear your demo, that
same gospel demo. And then J King snatches the phone
and be like, come get this motherfucker. He's sucking up
my pussy. But I do need you let me. But
I do need to let you. Let me take this tape,

(29:17):
I said, And I was like, whoa, I don't know, bro,
And the only thing I had seen was bad press
about them fighting right with time at Social Club. Listen,
let me to radioscope obviously radio radio give you the

(29:40):
lead singer. Club like, just throw J King under the bus.
Worse than that, though, I would read like black beaten,
you know man. So look so, but here's the thing
that changed my mind talking to him. I saw an
image and the TV was on and it sounds like

(30:00):
I'm making enough, but it's not. It's true. Joan Rivers
had her first show on Fox and she had a
little talk show. I'll be damn when that ship played
a repeats in which time there's Joan Rivers talking to
j King and Club Movo with handing him a gold album.
I was like, uh, WHOA, Now do I want to

(30:21):
stay here in my mama's house or don't want to
worry about whether Jay is a crook or not? Right?
And so I said, man, let me take the tape.
Bro take the tape. And he said, and he said
this to me, and he made a promise to me.
He said, Bro, I promise you. I'll have you a
record deal in two weeks. This this tape is phenomenal.
Benny Medina is going to love it, and you're gonna

(30:41):
be be ready to leave Wichita and moved to Sacramento,
which is where he lived at the time. And this
is seven. He absolutely. I was washing dishes one day
phone rang picked up that thing, you know, old school phone,
off the wall, put it on my shoulder, kept washing
the dishes. Jay King said, you're ready to leave? I said,
who is this this j man? Get to get to
pay your mama's bills. You're moving the Sacramento. You guys

(31:01):
are signing the Warner Brothers. That's how I got in
a record business. Now that the Cats. Sam you mentioned Sammue,
Well that was in that group. Was that the same Samuel?
So you like what you see Samuel? Absolutely? Oh yeah,
absolutely for sure. And that was you know, that was
a club to vote part of it. When I got

(31:21):
to Sack, I met all of those dudes. They would
still record Tony Tony, Tony hadn't happened yet. Um, And
can you answer this for me? Where the hell is
Tommy Denny right now? I talked to them. I talked
to him all the time. Tommy follows me on on Instagram,
and Denny is out here. I think he's managing them joints.
The producer. Oh wow, that's the folks. Yeah, and we're

(31:45):
talking about we're talking about Denzel Thomas back Row and
Denzel Foster. That's right, right, absolutely, So, I mean get Scramento.
I get the Sacramento and the first time in California ever, No, no,
that was my second time because I had just been
in l A trying to meet with John McClay in
the year before and eight six, right, all that fall

(32:08):
through or it was just like quick meeting fell through
because this is my only big Griffy tie ever in
my whole life. It felt because the guy that we
thought was our manager was a crook and he had
been doing business with said Dick Griffy and some kind
of international shipping weird something. He went to jail, and

(32:30):
when he went to jail, we had to go back
to Kansas. Yeah, so the j King coming through was
a literal savior of my life. That was a lifeline
from Sacramento. He actually is from Sacramento. Yeah, okay, sound
was like, have y'all noticed that no one, no black

(32:52):
artists not born in the in the sixties, that gets
to our show. It's like they cannot even get to
California without running too, either Lonnie Simmons or j King.
We're now j King is completely the good side of

(33:13):
that story is also clearance. But yeah, it's like you're
gonna get You're gonna run into four people your journey.
That's a lot about them though, the success or epic
failure one or the other. Oh my god, wow, it's crazy.
But Yo. Here's the thing though, the j King part
of my my experience taught me a lot because not

(33:36):
only did they get me in the studio and kept working,
but unfortunately I did very horrible drum sounds during that era.
Don't don't don't go find that cash album quest and
talk about the you know what I'm looking for it.
Oh god, it's horrible. But look I got up Jake.
I'me hit up Jake and get it from him, Jacob.
That bad Boy is on disconds. It's horrible. They're selling

(33:56):
on on on what you call it, tom Amazon? Amazon?
The ship is on Amazon anyway. It never so it
never was released, It never officially released, it never, but
I have it on CD. You know, we got it
that far cover about to be released on the schedule
and everything, and then Jake like piste off the top
bras and they dropped his whole ship. Wow. So yes

(34:20):
described j King as CEO because he was on the
come up. Yeah he was. And then you know what,
so what happened? I think you know what? Like in
the jail tell you this himself. When he was young, girl,
he had a serious like energy problem. He could not

(34:43):
control his energy, like meaning like if he got piste.
He lets you know, he did not edit himself. He
did not care. I remember one time a security guy
said something crazy to him one as we was walking
through the mall. He wouldn't got a gun, he said,
like he was triggered, Like this guy was not the
one playing with seriously seriously, And maybe and that was it.

(35:04):
Maybe I don't know, but I'm telling you this. People
did not play with Jay. Jay was about his business
and he definitely but what but one thing he was
to me was like a kind of an older brother.
And he was protective and he was and he and
he nurtured me. I gave him and you know what
he also did. He left me alone. He left me
do my thing. And it's did And I'm telling you

(35:26):
right now, those years taught me the most, probably because
it was the time where I thought I had made it.
You know when you get signed and you think you
made it and then all of a sudden, the beginning. Man,
look that was just the beginning. You know all about
that fonte so and it's just it was crazy. But
when we got dropped because of his actions, and now
I'm stuck, like not having a product out and and

(35:48):
I thought my dream You listen, when you think your
whole dreams are over at twenty two, you know what
I mean? Um, it was devastating. It was devastating. But
Jay was so much of volatile person that it made
it difficult to deal with in the moment. Yeah, he
reminded me of the way he talks. He talks just

(36:09):
like Ja Prince. Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.
I know, like a very quiet slow at least the
interviews I saw which something said don't you don't want
to have any go ahead? Go ahead, And I was
gonna say, do you ever have any? Um, what was
your interactions like with Benny Bardina at that time, if
you had any several and you know what, this is

(36:32):
one of the funny stories about Bennie. He at that
time he was really trying to transition into television, so
he was kind of over it in a lot of ways.
He was already over the record thing. He was because
he was really about to do Fresh Person bel Air,
because he started that immediately when he left. But what
he was for me was just a real honest person,

(36:53):
like he was like, Nope, that sucks, Yep, that's dope. Nope.
At one time. I used to make these phone messages
on my phone and sat him where I would do
all these big ass productions. Quest I would do like
whole productions just to say that I'm not home. Yeah,
but you know what I I say, right right? So I
had this one joint and it was funky as hell,
and he he called me. Benny called me. I was like,

(37:14):
what the hell Benny thinks telling me? He went, Yo,
that's your first fucking single right there? Wow? And he
literally chose it for the album that never came up.
But it was a song called Rome and he said, man,
that's just so that happened. And then I didn't see
Bennie for decades until like he was trying. I heard
he was trying to find me throughout the whole successful
as W b B period in the nineties. He never

(37:35):
could find me. And when I finally saw him again
was recently at a L A Read book signing. Uh.
It was me, him and Usher in l A Read
And that was probably twenty sixteen. He hadn't seen me since.
How's he doing? Man, he's still like good health and everything.
As far as I know, he's great. Yeah. I mean
when you when you're that rich Man, ditty baby face

(38:01):
you know please. So, yeah, there's there's another legendary person
that enters, uh your sphere and I don't know much
about him or like I know his music well, and
that's Robert Brookings. How like, how how does he enter
your story? So when I got to Sacramento, I found

(38:25):
out that there was this rivalry between Ja King and
Robert Brookins. Robert Brookins had been a child star in
the Sacramento He's from Sacramento as well, so they were
like from from the same hood. And it was like,
you know, I'm gonna be famous before you type of thing.
So Robert was a genius really on the keys vocals,
I mean talking about Fred Hammond, Robert sound like Fred
Hammond before Fred Hammond. M okay, so pete. So when

(38:49):
I get there, it was only a matter of time
before I would I would meet Robert because I was
always he was like a legend and I hadn't met
him yet. I was only twenty two. I kept hearing
about it, and then when Jay would talk about him,
it was always beat Robert's ass. So I was like,
what is the deal with j King and Robert? So

(39:09):
they had this rivalry When Robert Brookings met me, it
was by accident. I had this girlfriend I was seeing
the time. Her name is Donna. Donna answered the phones
for Robert's office front office. So one time I wrote
Week and I wanted to play Week for her to
see what she thought of it. As a female, I
went into her office. She introduced me to Robert. That

(39:31):
was my first time meeting them, and he didn't know
nothing about me singing or playing a lone of that stuff.
When I pushed the button played on Week, my demo
of Week, Donna I looked up. Her ass was in tears.
Robert was like, that's too many motherfucking words. That's yeah,
he said what he said, why do you saying something worried?

(39:54):
Making no simple? It's good, that's me. I was like,
if only Robert had an on the bone Foxes right
around the corner. But look, but look what Robert did
at that moment. Though he showed me a couple of chords,
he showed me he was working with Jackie Jackson at
the time. He took me to Tito Jackson's house here

(40:17):
in l A. He took me under his wing, is
what he did, and that's how it ended. Up on
his second album. I'm doing backgrounds on there on a
song called United. But but Robert literally, what he really
was trying to do was take Jay King's from J King,
you're feeling he's trying to get me squarely into Robert Camp.

(40:38):
He's like, and what you're doing with that? You know?
J King? He don't saying they came. He's like, you're
too you're too bad to be in that camp, bro,
what you're doing? And I think he tried to show
me to like the life Hollywood life with the Jackson's
and the death and he was also playing keys for Earth,
Winn and Fire. Eventually, like Robert was doing everything. Long
story short, you know, rest of people. Yeah, I know,

(41:00):
I know he passed away like a ten years ago.
I think, yes, yes, yes, But we ultimately became very
good friends and and he was he was one of
those cats where that I always knew about her, you know, yeah,
that that never you know, got a shine and really
got the light of day. But I always saw his
name on credits and all that stuff, and that's funny, man.
And listen to a record by him called um uh

(41:21):
in Our Lives. In our Lives, check that one out. Okay, Yeah,
did you sing your demo for a week? I should
I sang all the demos for all those songs. Oh yeah,
So how long before you're able to at least get

(41:42):
back up on your feet again once the J KING
deal goes? Like did you try to tell Benny like
why don't you just sign me directly? Or like you
were already under contract to listen? When did what he did?
I think in that in that building it was a rap.
For anything having to do at you feel me from
that tree was a rap. And I didn't had the

(42:04):
power as a young kid like that to be walking
up in those rooms and talking in about anything. Really
shop we funked up and went tried to get a
manager to get out of the j J deal, and
that backfired on us. It was it was just all bad.
I was. I was depressed be free of him a
couple of years, man like a couple of years. And
then even after that though, I was just struggling just
to be able to be a working musician. So all

(42:26):
of a sudden I start taking I start taking any calls,
any calls, if anything, I would take it and go
do the work. That's how I got Stevie Wonder gig
um and and the and the Bobby Brown gig in
nineteen nine, respectively. Can I shall tell you that story? Yes? Okay,
so think this. So now, me and Robert at this

(42:49):
time had fallen out because Robert made me buy a
car that I couldn't afford and put it in He
said he was gonna cosigned for it, but then he
didn't do it, and I was stuck with the things.
I was mad, so I was like not feeling Robert
and then Robert. I also had done multiple songs for
Robert that he was supposed to pay me for and
then he didn't pay me for them. So I was
really really mad at Robert in this moment, I understand
that when I tell you no for these for these artists,
it was the monk. There was some people that he's

(43:11):
working with, but I had demo, had written and demo them,
and he told me he's gonna pay me X amount
and he didn't do it. Well, remember I had Donna
working in there, so Donna could tell me what was
really going on, right Pete. So so what I found
out was that he really never was gonna pay me, okay,
So I was I was heated. So now I'm down
in l A hustling for gigs and ship I get
a call from a guy named Derek Allen, bass player.

(43:34):
He plays basically that's right, d o A yes, you know,
so shout out to Derrick Allen. So Derek was Bobby
Brown's musical director for his tour at that time. He
did College Girl, exactly what check you out? So yeah,
that's exactly right. So look he hit me and my
man Dennis Austin was in the band. He's a keyboard player,

(43:55):
dope due from Sacramento as well, Derek's homeboy. They called
me and said, Brian, we need somebody that can send
and play. Can you do this Bobby Brown gig? I said,
what's the gig? We're doing the American Music Awards. We're
doing a medley of all its hits at the American
Music Awards. Okay, and now this is nine. Now this
is a question you were asking how long it took.
This is about a year after we had gotten dropped

(44:16):
and when this is happening in kay okay. So um,
I take the gig. I get the gig, I get
down to l a uh and I do the gig.
It was amazing. I met Val Young, who's also a legend.
Shout out to Value Young. I know you know v
VOW was on the record. That's right, uh, and goat band.
But check this. So it's me Val and this other
guy named Harold. We're doing the backgrounds for Bobby Bobby. Uh.

(44:40):
For for reasons I won't mentioned, could not really do this.
I couldn't do the show okay, live like it's supposed
to be. So Dick Clark said, you're not coming up
on here. You know, Dick Clark did not play. He's like,
you're not coming out here and messing up my ship.
Go go record it, you gotta go record it. So
we went to a studio. It was bad, so we
red or did the whole thing in the studio. Now,

(45:04):
when I was supposed to leave the next day to
go back to Sacramento, I'm in the hotel room. I'm
getting my bags are all packed. I'm in the hotel
lobby waiting on a cab or something, and look, I
jump on the piano and I started playing what a
commission song? And it probably was running back to You
or something like that. So a guy walks by me

(45:26):
and he goes yo, you know that you what you
know about the commission and saying, man, come on, and
so we start doing two part harmony to it. In
the lobby at this hotel. I look up and I
was like, Bro, you are Keith John Hunh Wow. Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,

(45:48):
so Pete. So I go bro, And before I can
say anything else, he said, what's your name? I said,
I'm Brian Morgan and he goes, not Brian Alexander Borgan.
And I said, wait a minute, you my name? Bro?
How do you know my name? He said, Bro, that
cash a album with Stevie plays on the buck all
the time. What I even get it because they gave

(46:11):
promos out all the time tables. I said what. He said,
check this out, Bro, We're having a rehearsal. Stevie's doing
the Grammys and we're having a rehearsal for it. Would
you like to audition for it? I say what? Of course?
I said, what you're doing? He said, we're gonna do.
We can work it out the Beatles joint because Paul
McCartney's gonna be there. I said, oh my god. Yeah,

(46:32):
So I did it. I went to the forum a
line around the form waiting like everybody doing twenty thou
runs warming up keep. John walked me in, got me
into that audition, and I got that gig. So if
you look at this, can you can YouTube? I think
that's right, and I'm in there. That's me right there.

(46:52):
That is crazy out here because thank you, thank you,
thank you very much. Hey, but yo, but from there
back home and broke right, okay, and it's cool to
be on TV and your mama was like, look at
my baby on TV with Stevie Wonder. But you know,

(47:14):
Stevie didn't call me after that until about four years
later when the girls were out. But when I went
back home something I'm gonna switch. I'm gonna make it
easy to just transition for y'all. I was like, I
cannot be broke no more. I gotta write something for
somebody that I already know has has has a standing,
you know what I mean. So I in in eighty

(47:36):
nine Martha wash had out everybody, everybody, and I love
that joint right And I've always been a househead and
in a dance head. So I was like, man, I
can write, I can write a joint for Martha. And
then all of a sudden when she had out uh
everybody that that, I was like, right, so that's ninety one,
So like, this is my opening because she got a

(47:58):
record deal on our c a AT as a result
of her getting uh suing C and C. So she
got that deal, so I said, that's my opening right there.
She got a brand new album and she dinna need songs.
So I went home. I had to listen what I
had quest This is the equipment I had is pathetic,
but I made these joints on it. I had a
motherfucking nine on nine rolling nine on nine. Needed that,

(48:23):
And then I had a horrible elease it's HR sixteen B.
Remember that joint. It was, oh my god for percussion. Right,
you made it work, bro. I made them joints together
and used the nine on nine for the kicking snare
stuff and the Hr sixty and B for the percussion stuff. Right,
and then two joints going together sound like a whole
new drum machine. So boom and then I and I

(48:45):
was like, I did my best. Everybody everybody right, and
it's a song called give It to You And when
number one dance for me and Martha on our c
A early but it got me in the door at
our c A. The A and our person of the
of the Martha Wash record was Kenny or t okay,

(49:05):
that's how we get to s WV. Wow got me
in that door and I didn't and not I had
only done two two songs on the demo for Marcus.
She liked them so much. This is what Martha Wash
said to me when she heard them demo songs. She said,
I don't know who you are or where you come from,
but you're doing what we want. The A and our
guy has not given us what we want until he

(49:27):
played us You can you can you do more? So
I ended up doing five joints on that on Martha's
debut on Our c A. Five songs on that, and
that literally changed my life because I was able to
get a new car, be say say fuck you to
Robert Brookins, see say to j King, I could you
know I'm out here, I'm still working. You know it
was And I was never malice towards him because I

(49:49):
knew that if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't even
be there. So I would never talk to about Jay.
But at the end of the day, I was just like, yo,
I'm working and I got an apartment and I started working.
And if I didn't have that money that I made
for Martha wash In about my first MPC that I did,
I'm swing to you and all the rest of the
stuff on Wow, that was all right? Got it? Got it? Now?

(50:09):
All right? Go? How do you how do you develop
this stuffs songs? Or or did the songs come first?
Or you meeting the ladies of s WV first songs first?
Remember I told you I did a week before I
ever met him? Did that eighty nine? And that's when
when the whole thing fell apart with Jay, and then
Shante Moore came into the picture, and then that's kind

(50:31):
of I wrote that out of a sadness about you
were writing that song for her record? Or I wrote
it about her? And I was writing it for Charlie Wilson.
What week was about Shanty More? You didn't know that that? Yes? Yeah, yeah, bro, yes,

(50:55):
speak on it. I had a huge crush on Chante Bro,
and I couldn't but that was Jay's woman at the time.
Was Jay's woman at the time? Big time. I'm saying that, yeah,
and you know what, and it was just about boundaries
and I didn't want to cross no boundaries with my

(51:17):
that's my boss. And j K was still crazy, don't
get it sucked up? So Mr Big like that and
she got that voice don't Oh my god, oh my god,
I don't even make that connection. Broe yes, bro bro.

(51:40):
It's a long story short, but tell the body still
still Charlie Wilson fan, No me think of where I'm
coming from. So Wednesday Love Her had been my favorite
gap band song at that moment, right, and then oh god,
I gotta right stuff for child. So that was Wednsday.
Lover came on eight. So I wrote week in eighty nine.

(52:00):
It was only a week a year later, not even
a whole year later, right, So I'm thinking, when is
they love her? I got to do something at least
as strong as that, right, and so but Seante was
the fuel for the subject of it because it was
just about unrequitted things. You can't you know, something's happened,
but you can't do nothing about it type of energy.
It's the whole. I don't know what it is, but

(52:21):
this is this is crazy, you know what I mean?
Why is she not exclaiming this from the rooftops that
she what was her reaction to knowing that she didn't
know that then. Yeah, she definitely knows it now she's
doing it for years, But back then she had no idea.
And not only that, she was trying to get the
hell away from Sacramento and J two she had a
whole she's about to live. But but my point, my

(52:43):
point is, thank god I wrote something so honest, you
know what I mean, from my heart and uh and
she was the inspiration for it. And I'm not ashamed
of say, you know when they love her? Yeah, man,
when the one that's that's just hard. Oh my god,

(53:03):
all right, you two are an anomaly to y'are so
puzzling because I know that's not one that's on the
round Trip record. That's right, that's nothing else on there's
horrible Who is listening nobody round Trip in eighty nine?
That like when I'm looking at you, sucker wasn't on there,

(53:26):
like right right? That what was at? So when's the
love of what? For? For my generation? I think when
Jacket Edge covered it, yeah, kind of sent a lot
of people back like, oh, this is a cover and
then you know we checked that one. It was the
same thing when Mary covered I'm in love like that
was a lot of that was a gap band record,

(53:47):
brilliant band record that it kind of just went under
the radar. And honestly, after Gaping eight so I no,
no listen. They were on Capital and we're about to
get dropped, and it was a whole lot of screwed
up stuff happening at Capital. At the time, it wasn't
it wasn't a good It wasn't their fault. That was
a bona fide smash it should have been, but no
money was put behind it. It was just horrible. But

(54:09):
that record just did something to my heart at the time.
So when I wrote week, I was coming from Matt's
face like it's gotta be doping up for Charlie to
do it. Now. The ironic thing is I never even
gave it to him because so much stuff started happening
in a different direction for me when like Martha happened
and then it didn't really blow blow up like I
hoped it would, but we got the number one dance

(54:29):
record out of it, and then it kind of went away.
But when I met when I heard Coco's voice though,
this is the connection. So when Kenny Ortiz was like
all this when we's finishing up Martha Watch, He's like,
be I got these girls. I'm gonna need you to
write some stuff with these girls. And you hear that
all the time from a n RDS and be like,
oh God, here we go. But wait. He FedEx the
joint a cassette to me back in those days, and
I opened the cassett up. I put it on. As

(54:50):
soon as I heard Coco's voice, I was like, oh
my god, that's another Shirley Murdoch all day. Right, So
when you put my energy, which is a Charlie Wilson
heavily influenced thing with a surely murdered now you got
a potential computer level about to happen. You're so scientific.
It's the truth, right it is. And I knew it

(55:12):
as soon as I heard it. So I'm like, okay.
So that demo that had been floating around of week
of me, I knew in the back of my mind
Coco would murder it. But I was trying to get
a solo deal for myself. So out of all this
stuff I sent Kenny for for them, I didn't send
him that wow, I sent him right here. I sent
him some other stuff and I did not send him weak.

(55:33):
Now listen how he found out about Week? What for
you do that? What? Who was working on their music
that got to you? Because I'm under the impression that
you did all their music, Like how did how did
their demo get to you? And what was it on
that demo? Like what was the music? That's a great question.
There's a guy that what they were working with called
Donald Donald Brown, Donmo Bolden. I think I'm saying it right.

(55:56):
He passed away. He was there's a song on the
first album called a Couple of Things he did on there. Um,
look on the credits and check his joints out. But
he's on the first album. But that's the stuff I
heard was from him. But now what I learned on
Coco's voice at the time, I was like, man, she's
gotta have somebody to be able to control what she's
doing because it was like a very church you know,
it's all over the place church, church, church, and atlands

(56:17):
were wild. I was like, if I could, if I
could harness that entertainment, it's gonna be dope. And I
knew that. But here's how Kenny found out about Week
and went crazy there at back to j King at
JA King. When I worked there, there was this janitor
working there named Jeff Bowen's. Okay, so Jeff Bowens would
clean up the office after everybody would leave. But what

(56:39):
we didn't know was that he would also take help
himself to tape and cassette today. Okay, So now that
was eighty nine cut to one somewhere in there. Uh
not even I get a phone call from Kenny Ortiz.
He's at a meeting at our C A Records in Hollywood.

(57:00):
He goes, Nigga, you have been holding out on me?
How in the hell am I hearing this song from
Jeff Bowen's because Jeff Bones was now a and our
person at R c A Records. And he goes, and Kenny,
your tez goes, that sounds like my dude, Brian Morgan,
and Jeff Bowen goes Brian Alexander Market and he goes,
hell yeah, And Kenny goes, I'm marking with this thinking

(57:22):
right now. And so Kenney called me, go, be are
you crazy? You've been holding out on me? Bro I
got you gotta cut this on that stuff. Even you
gotta cut this on them when you finished mixing, Martha,
please come to New York and cut this on them
when you finished mixing, Martha, I said no because I
was like, bro, I'm trying to get a deal myself.

(57:43):
You hear me on that joint cut. Why don't you
sign me? He said, be later. I need them on
that record now. And he said because he wanted to
do like a female guy. Okay, okay, okay, So but
who but who who with fluenced Aaron Charlie. So we're
still we're still back at Charlie, right. So when I

(58:05):
get back to New York, I agreed to it after
you agreed to drop a little coinage uh on demo? Right?
So yeah, we went in there. We're in the studio
called Homeboy, which is legendary Robines. Shortly after we did that,
did show me loving there Andrew and Martin whichever one
you believe, And um, that is that The story is

(58:29):
that Andrew Martin is singing that. Yes, lor that's what.
That's the what, Yeah, that's what. That's the big, big
big I saw it on the internet, man, and then
and and then Andreas, you gotta google it. She she
sings it. And then when you hear her sing it,
you could be like holy and so anyway. But but
Fred Fred shout out to Fred McFarlane and uh and

(58:51):
uh the guy at owned home but not forgive me,
not Foster forgive me. Y'all worked there, Fred and Allen,
George Jesus, the writers of Show Me Love, but were
recording that salon rialmly recording a lot of joints in there.
That's a very famous room as Homeboy recordings. Asking about
that history, so got that cut co co hated it

(59:13):
was difficult to record her on it. But the good
news Now every hit starts right. Yeah, Well, let me
ask you, well, I was gonna say, you're you're basically
being set up, uh, kind of as a blind play date.
So like, how do you even start to nurture the

(59:36):
relationship of trust and whatnot? Like do you just immediately
day wanted to start recording these joints? Do you like
spend time with them, for like Jamma Lewis spent two
weeks with Janet before they even hit the studio. Man
with you, what was the process to gain the trust
that was? That is a great question, and let me
tell you the answer is not good because that level

(59:58):
of commitment that Jamma Lewis and I'm a huge fan
of Jimmy, Jammy, Terry Lewis my guy. They influenced, They
influenced me. Producer was like almost more than everybody. Uh
my key style, my base, left hand basis and Jimmy
we talked, We talked very often. That's my guy. Um.
But they spent the time with Janet like that to
do that, I had no such luxury. I got these

(01:00:18):
three girls thrown in my face with attitude out the
yen yang right, like all this whole New York attitude,
and they was like they didn't know me, they didn't care.
But what the difference was with me and Coco was
she had been used to running these hip hop producers
crazy because they couldn't sing, and they could and she
and they couldn't tell her what to do because they
could not reproduce it with their own mouths. I walk in,

(01:00:38):
I did the whole beat, the whole record and everything,
and I'm also can sing this and I can tell
you how to sing it. So that changed the game
for her, and she resisted it big time, like in
a big way, like it was it was very hard
to get anything done. However, once she got it done
and I was satisfied with how it sounded. That's what

(01:00:59):
you hear, So did you have to go line for line?
And what you're basically saying is and I've heard this
story before, the story of uh uh. We once had
Linda Perry on the show and she was talking about how,
you know Christina Accuilera when she first got Beautiful. You know,

(01:01:19):
of course Christina thought she was gonna do some you know,
crazy and you know, and just as a way for
her to learn the song, She's like, all right, put
the mic up, let me just sing this real quick
and I'll come back in two weeks and not this

(01:01:40):
joint out And she's saying in her drive voice, and
Linda news, this is the take. I'm gonna let you
struggle for three weeks and make you think you're going
to top that and didn't do it, so like, but
what's what's the you know, I've made it known on
this show that I hate nothing more than recording vocals
with with artists. But how do you like, how do

(01:02:04):
you get them to just straight up chill and and go.
That's a great question as well. Listen with me and Coco.
It was very very easy in one sense because she
surrendered because she wasn't a person who could ad lib.
She wasn't an improv person at all, and she and

(01:02:25):
she was really fearful of it, like she would be
so terrified that she might have to create an ad
lib or do any of that stuff. So in order
to make her feel more comfortable, I would just do
every single thing but I wanted her to do and
you literally, like the I would just sing it down
the way literally that I wanted her to do it.
I'm talking about every single thing. Listen, I'm so in
you at the end, even down to the even that

(01:02:46):
even that I sang that like every single run, every
single thing. So really what you're hearing when you hear
those reds, it's just me doing it first and then
she does it. And it was so it worked so well,
It's like it was magic how it worked, Like it
was like I was I was able to have a
female voice be my voice. Does she feel like she

(01:03:07):
was being inauthentic if she just filed you verbatim? No,
because she was so young, that wasn't didn't cross her mind. Now,
I'm sure now here's what I felt like happened later, Coco,
you tell me if I'm wrong because if you, I
know you're gonna see this. She probably got really sick
of people that are like musicians and singers asking her
questions about ship, about how we did ship and whether
the how to do this and how we do that?

(01:03:27):
And it was really just she just copied the demo.
It was not a big a big answer, right, But
the whole thing was it was always back to me.
So I think as a person young person is trying
to develop and be who they are, it would be
a no. I could get that. I see that. It
could be annoying to constantly be reminded that somebody else
gave you all your licks or somebody else did too.
When you go into a studio with another producer and

(01:03:49):
they expecting you to do what they before, you can't.
You can't replicate that. But she learned, and that's where
I think her learning process started right there. And she'll
tell you that shout out to Coco. She'll tell you
those those hard sessions taught her how to do all
that stuff that that eventually came to her naturally. Can
I just ask a question real quick because I noticed that,

(01:04:11):
I just I'm sorry, just because I noticed that you
keep saying Cocoa and for s w V Fan, like
we all know that Coco's voice is like, of course
she is the but how did the worklow work in
the dynamic work with the group, Because at the same
time as s w V Fan, you still was like,
I want to hear ts with I want to hear
really like, like how did that you know? On my

(01:04:32):
records and every listen. I made sure that they were
on every one of my joints, all my hits. But
this is we're just having a discussion about this recently.
Kenny Ortiz would always try to get me to re
record Coco doing the girls parts as just as a
safety just in case, and I didn't believe in that
because what I like, I loved their blend, the true

(01:04:54):
authentic blend from Coco, Tas and Lily is you can't replace,
just like you can't replace Queen. That sound of those
guys voices together, it's their sound. You can't replace um
backgrounds literally, those that blend of those people so together
before they got to you, I think a couple of
years and that's why they're blend was so smooth and

(01:05:15):
so perfect. What I would always do was record them individually,
so I could have control of each note and I
would make sure they would blended into the record properly.
So if you listen to every one of my joints,
they're always there. They're on my joints, but solo like
oh he leaves well, know that that came me later

(01:05:35):
because remember most of my joints from the first album
where we just trying to find find our feeling, right, uh,
because clearly sounds amazing on that Faith Hamens joints that
she did or you kidding me? On the second album.
They all can sing. This is syst exactly. It's truly
system with voices. But at the same time, the placement
of what they do on the hit records is as
important to me as the lead because everybody loves those backgrounds.

(01:05:58):
You're kidding me so fun so or if it come on, bro,
everything they do. I was telling lately this who felt
underappreciated and under it's not real. I'm like, no, you
can't sing none of those songs without those backgrounds. Yeah, man,
are you having them singing unison like? Because I love

(01:06:21):
how they're the way that you stack their background vocals.
It starts off unison and then it blossoms into harmony.
Is that the Clark sister's influence absolutely absolutely all day.
Thank you, Twinkie Albert Eva Clark. Yes, ma'am sir. Exactly

(01:06:42):
every example on the SPP record of when you do that,
because just for the layman is listening okay uh and
then saying you har harmony yes, and then back to
it's like when you don't know what stay and then
you don't go harmon against it to confuse. Yeah, maybe

(01:07:04):
that's what you give him something look forward to and
back and forth with its commission commission to commission. That's
that's that's a style man. Yeah. George Clinton um I
would often say if you look at frank Adelic records,
like look at the Flash Flashlight, they would always sing
in unison because he had a theory that um he

(01:07:27):
once gave a theory about like how you know, when
you're an Irish pub or whatever and people sing the song,
they get drunk, like they all sing together what he
calls a Greek course Greek chorus. Right, it's more down
to earth, and it's it's more inviting to make you
want to remember the song. If everyone sings in unison,
like then the same voice as opposed to like a

(01:07:50):
note right take six to watch him like Wow, they're amazing,
but you feel like never need it now. But that's
the thing like harmonies were they had just enough unison
to make people feel like, oh, I could sing this too,
and then you had a little spice in there to

(01:08:11):
let him know you any with me and I have
another I have another question production wise, and I always
wanted to know this what makes It's about time somewhat? Uh?
I guess revolutionary is also in the production because you

(01:08:33):
could easily succumbed to what was happening and in that
time with with New Jack Swing. You know, I'm certain
that like Guys the Future, uh TLC's first record, like
everybody was using you know, James Brown's think about it

(01:08:54):
looping all that stuff like or that post Dallas Austin
like basically the Boomerangs down track like that sort of right,
like that post public to me, Yeah, but I for
this album to come out in it is very Unnew

(01:09:15):
Jack swingy like it's right it was rich too. Yeah,
I was gonna say, like the Kenny Not I feel like,
wait a minute, this doesn't sound like in Vogue or
TFC or whatever was, you know, the time you're competing
with Dallas Austin and Teddy Riley and whatnot that made

(01:09:37):
you purposely go the opposite direction with the production as
we when we started, I'm so into you didn't exist,
so remember that, right, So when we started recording, we
started from week and then went into the only the
first up tempo we did was right here, So technically
I'm still slightly new Jackie on right here, my original
right here if you listen to it. But I was

(01:09:58):
trying to do it in a break beat kind of way,
right So, but Pete, but I knew. I knew from
coming New York and coming being in New York and
being in the energy I was around Fonte, I was
in the heads sessions, I was in Eric sermon sessions.
I was in sessions that didn't have anything to do
with R and B. So my my instinct was, I

(01:10:18):
gotta go harder. I can't just do New jack Swan
that's the pop sound and radio funk that. I don't
want to do something that's different because the reason why
Guy was so hard was because they did their thing
and their and their style. Girls gotta show everything in
their own style they can't be new Jack Swing because
then they they're trying to be guys. It's what my
mind would be. So I'm like, no, this is me right.

(01:10:39):
So by the time as we recorded and listen to
the record, because I'm gonna keep it really one hundred,
there's two new Jack swingy things on there. Uh like
it bro on me, But that's the remnants of what
had been. You can hear. I think you're gonna like
it almost de Yeah, yeah, I like that song. I mean,

(01:11:01):
I definitely see the new but that was appreciate it.
But I'm saying that happened when I first met them,
and then my old once he got quest asking about
the comfortable comfortable ability factor by the time as far
as getting to know them and who they were. By
the time we did I'm Swinging to You, I had
recorded them many many times, so now they trust me

(01:11:23):
and they trust what I'm gonna tell them to do.
And then we had that level. So when we get
to I'm Swinging to You, I knew that this was
gonna be the ones for me, even if it never succeeded.
I said, personally, I think I nailed this one because
it's my own sound and I purposely went straight with
the straight sixteen thing because it was so unknew Jack.

(01:11:45):
It was. It was not like I was like, oh,
controversy about that right here story guy the remix. Yes,
I just wanted to know about right here. Oh okay, no, no, no,

(01:12:08):
don't know. Everybody has a story about it. But here's
my thing. All Star, the one that that did the
vocal the work on the record is my man. Now,
I didn't know that Teddy did anything on it at
all until I became aware of it through Kenny Ortiz
and and Teddy. And I'm saying exactly what he did,

(01:12:28):
but we're talking about the right here human nature REMI
So just to be clear, everybody had a hand in it.
But the truth of the matter is the whole beat
itself was done by All Star, then touched up by
Teddy and others with certain things. Teddy recorded her vocal,

(01:12:49):
Copa's vocal on their um, some other Teddy's example, right,
and Teddy did. I guess there's some other guys that
worked with Teddy in the studio as well. They got
at me on Instagram. Those are all great guys and
everybody's cool people. I'm just saying the German nation of
that song and that production, and that beat was done
by All Star, the person who grabbed also anything remix

(01:13:11):
and killed it right way, even the drums because I
could have sworn the drums were Teddy. No, Teddy's drums
are on. I'm swinging to you his remix on that.
Have you heard that? That's so rough? So that do do? Do? Yeah?

(01:13:32):
That that that swing? Know that that is All Star?
And then they told me what sample he you And
I'm just gonna say this. I'm just gonna say this.
This is how I go because I mean, I'm just like, yeah,
I wasn't sure who did what at this point when
I hear something, you know Teddy, they said one thing
Teddy's people and his and his guys that did it
with him. No, we was there and we did this this.

(01:13:53):
And I'm saying I can't argue because I wasn't there.
But here's what I told All Star, who had told
me that he did the basic beat. I said, all Star,
tell me this then, because I'm like, you quest I'm like,
let's get down to the germination of this whole what
you just did, Like, Okay, where's that beat from Bro?
And he broke it down and told me the samples,
and I went and checked it against what he told me,

(01:14:14):
and that is it. So I said, if y'all, and
I went on Instagram and said this to those people
who was claiming that they did it, I said, tell
me what the samples are that made that drum loop?
Just tell me? And it's like, I don't remember that him,
And I was like, important, more importantly, what were the
comments like when he rocked it on versus? Oh man,

(01:14:40):
that's well, that's how all this stuffy man, that's how
this all happened. Because when that when I'm madly yeah,
night that night, I didn't see that part of when
he opened his whole thing with that joint. Oh so
he had a story for it and everything and people
ready with the receipts. No, he just opened it as

(01:15:01):
if it was his. Yeah, that's what he did. And
so and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa? You know
that one? Hold on? And then I called our Star
because I wanted clarity. I was like, bro, before I
say anything on this internet about anything, tell me once again,
who did what on this joint? For real? Ship? When
he was all Star was laughing, He's like, these people

(01:15:23):
are hilarious. He's like, brokay, So you know it's obviously
the Dinah Ross presents the Jackson five story, you know,
right value I feel like singing. I'm like, yeah, well,
Teddy's working with Michael Jackson. He got the sample clear. Okay, yeah,
I get it. And that's not why the sample clear.
Trust me. The girls had been just number one with

(01:15:45):
with Week a million selling single number one, and this
is at the time that Michael had just done his
OPRAH interview, so the publicity wasn't the greatest, and then
and being associated with something really really black, like a
number one pop girl group that has song called week Out,
And that's why the follow up This Life Here Human
Nature was number two, and Michael, those girls went crazy

(01:16:06):
number two pop. It would have went number one if
it wasn't for Mariah's dream Lover. Damn that's right, and
the way shout out to myself a remixing dream Lover.
Maria called me out that out to myselflf Son, Hey, Brian,
would you say when you heard Joe Joe's version a
week and then she kind of knocked me out? Well,
I did it. I produced it. So it's the only

(01:16:32):
reason I love her so hard still to this day.
Thank you. You're welcome. Vincent Herbert called me on that
one said, listen to this. I put the phone in
my airsh I just heard a kids singing. She said.
She said she's thirteen. I said what anyway? And she's white.
I said what right? Yeah, Tamar for people who are

(01:16:54):
on the light end of music exactly. Y Yo, put
me down, plut me down to l A and I
cut that on Joe Joe. How long did that take?
Was she like? It just seemed like she just had it? Oh? Man,
that was nothing. That was like, oh my god, yeah
she did that. She did and she's been singing it
every sense. Sorry at the Tacos that my boy killing it.

(01:17:17):
He saw that on Instagram a year ago. She was
doing that. I was like, happy, my boy Steve Mackie's house.
Hell yeah, shout out Steve McKie, j Low's vocal coach. Hello. Okay.
She still maintained that the original version of Anything is
better than the remix that was. Thank you so much, Brod.
I mean, I love the remix, but man, first, when

(01:17:37):
I when I heard when you just hear you talk
about that album? Uh you know sr record and how
I can hear now as you talk about it, you
know the things you're gonna like it. That was kind
of jack screen but anything. When I heard that, I
was just like, Nah, this ain't on some other ship. Yeah, man,
let me tell you how I wanted to. I really
approach that one. Um Coco at that time, I was

(01:18:00):
impressed with she was her own, she was solid in
her diva is um very very early, right, and I'm
just wanting with Mark the Wash, I'm on the hills
of Mark the Wash, actual diva, right. But I was like,
Cocoa is a little young diva and training for real,
for real. So I said to myself when I thought
about how that giving me when that album starts, Bro,

(01:18:24):
you got it man, I was like, I need a
joint that not only sets up the whole mood, but
it's got to be a joint that sets Coco's voice
out there like that. And I was thinking about Diana
ross is Um how they slow intros on Uh ain't
a mountain high enough? You feel me where it's just
the slow building it builds up to the bim boom
boom bam, right. But I wanted it when it came

(01:18:47):
on to be so sexy. I was like, what can
I do atmospherically question to set up a sexy thing?
So I sampled. I turned on my water fasces in
my apartment and I sampled, uh the water dripping. Then
I sampled me dropping uh piece into a glass. And
so I got that plot that I wanted. And I
was like, and then I breathed into the mic. I

(01:19:07):
was just going, yeah, So all those sounds, I said
to myself, I didn't use the library records, that the studios, right,
you just know. I was in my apartment, bro, I
was like, nobody's joint is going to sound like this
because it's so just me literally making up sounds. And
so by the time I put those keys to all
those weird and all those snap and all that breathing

(01:19:27):
and stuff, it created a mood. And it's the perfect
mood for Coco's voice to come in and do what
it does. And and look how good the background sound
on that there. They are a good killing it. Yeah,
and the unison and harmony thing theory is still an
effect on that come on. So what I want to

(01:19:55):
know is that once this album really hits paid dirt
and becomes your your lottery ticket. Well one, how does
your life change? But can you talk about the phone
calls that come in after, like the artists that you
had to turn down and whatnot? Because what is that?

(01:20:17):
What is that downpouring of of man water? Feel like
like again, I was being that kid from Kansas who
always lived in those credits like we do. When I
tell you when um Charlie called me and said, I
want to come by, just come by the house, you know,

(01:20:38):
I'm I'm in tears. Then they're like, oh my god,
my heroes coming. And then we sit down in jam
and get on the drums and the keys and back
and trade back and forth. Him on keys, I'm on drums,
he's on drums, I'm on keys. Recording it, videotaping it.
I got all that footage. Um, it was amazing. But
when Stevie called and said, what are you doing with
that girl's voice? How are you doing it? Can you

(01:21:00):
come down and hang out? What? And I was like,
and I said to him, do you remember me? I said,
I'm background, so we can work it. He did not
remember that, Okay, But the point was, now he's calling
me and I'm and I'm and I'm mad, man, I'm like,
this is crazy. Who another one that call? Oh? Ray
Parker Jr. One of my heroes came up and flew
up in his plane and came out to hang out

(01:21:21):
with me and Sacramento. Just stupid stuff. Um Man, all
the heroes you can think of that you would want
to call, that you loved. They called, and and and
Mariah called, and I went to meet Tommy Matola and her.
That's how I got dream Lover. Clyde Davis called and
signed a girl group that I had at the time. Um,
and he wanted me to do my production deal with them. Um.

(01:21:42):
It was amazing. What was that? What was the name
of the girl group? They never came out, but they
were called Oliver Twists all of Her How do they
spell it? No? No, no no, no, how they spell it?
Just like you just suck it down. Oh my god.
We had some joints. We had some joints on there.

(01:22:05):
I want a collection of all the groups that didn't
make it with these with these hilarious right. So man,
so on the second record, Man, before we go, I
just gotta nerd and give you your props. There's a baseline,
a base you played on anything do do y Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:22:29):
you feel me because you know why that you know
where that came from. I always hanging out with women
with his fretless yeah, so I did that as a
nod to women tips They're like, Yo, bro, I'm thinking
about you right here. That's you. I just wanted to
play with my hands on the keyboard, like, let me
play this thing like a fretless dude would do. Yeah,
thank you, thank you for noticing that. Man. That's no,
that's that's like my favorite part of song. By the way,

(01:22:49):
women is on that first album he did that's what
I need. That's what I need. That's right. Shout out
to him and Danielle Tills thell so man, what happened
on the second record them and when they did because
you did the um the single the well no no, no,
get ahead of myself, Layla um. Yeah I heard that.

(01:23:11):
I was like, Yo, this, why is doing this? Ship? Look?
What went down with the second album and my six
six six degrees in separation is crazy quest check this out.
Do you guys know who Jeff Foreman is? Yes, he
was Layla's man. Yea, yeah, we had her on the

(01:23:34):
show when I got that Warner brother still way back
in eighty nine, and I was thinking I'm about to
come out on Warner. I met Jeff and through a
friend here in l A and just was a friend.
But what I what I learned was that Jeff Foreman's
brother is James M. Two May damn right, Okay, So yeah, yeah,
so jameson Twomans kid brother is my buddy, my best friend.

(01:23:55):
Jeff Foreman. Shout out to Jeff Foreman. Also shout out
to DJ Khalil, who Jeff Foreman meant award and gained
his first gig. Jeff Foreman introduced me to Leyla right
when he signed her to Virgin Records. So that's why
I already had a relationship with Leyla four years before
Let Me Love You got that crazy and so by

(01:24:16):
the time when that came out, were you and the
girls with y'all beef and like, what was your relationship?
Like no, let me no, no, let me love You
came out in between the second album. I didn't know that,
and then the beginning was right, so I spent after
six I didn't let me right, but I didn't let
half life came up. I remember exactly came Let Me

(01:24:38):
Love You in ninety four and Usher Crazy and ninety
four and then and they both came to Sacramento and
recorded up there. That was the Usher's first album, that
the Diddy, UM A and R and the whole thing,
um but Pete After that, Layla first of all, came
to Sacramento and murdered that that's a that's one take
that that lead vocal and let Me Love You is

(01:24:59):
one take. She was smoking a cigarette playing my Galagha
machine when I walked up on and said you ready
to do this vocal? She said, yeah, let's knock it out.
Put a cigarette out, got on that mic, sing that
entire vocal from top to bottom. Really killed it. Yes,
so let me let Me Love You with special to me.
I really really love love her on that. I totally

(01:25:20):
forgot you Crazy on the US album. I forgot about
that record. I don't like talking about that. When I
said that was my first did he experience and it
wasn't great? Really, well, here's well, I mean in a nutshell. Um,
as much as I tried to not swing on my
my debut, what I'm swinging to you and all that,

(01:25:41):
of course, it was a big East well East coast,
West coast thing going on at that time, and and
did he just had been just put in charge of
that kid sure, and and I was like, yo, this
is how I hear this tune. And I did it
really straight. Well he didn't like it and wiped it
and had Chucky. Chucky Thompson was one of my good
friends redo the whole try really. So that's so I

(01:26:01):
never could listen to it because that's what happened to that. However,
us should called me recently after we had saw each
other that book towards l A's book things. Yeah, He's like, yo,
do you still have a copy of that old way
we did it? I was like hell yeah. I was
just like, let me get a copy of that. We
want to do that in my live show. Wow. Yeah
yeah yeah so that that that made me feel better.

(01:26:22):
And baby Face liked my version better by the way, too,
he's at the time when it happened. I gotta check that.
You gotta see me that. Oh yeah, it's crazy. Yeah,
I love that first album. I mean, he was it's
totally not age appropriate. He shouldn't have been seeing that.
I only was yeah, like that, man. So so when
they do new beginning. Where's what's your status with the

(01:26:45):
with the group at that time. I come out just
like we did on the first time. I come out
to New York. I'm hanging out, I'm working. We had,
you know, in all the spots, hitting all the studios. Quad.
We recorded half of it at Quad, you know where
Tupac was. It was, it was, it was. It was
very energetic and good. I thought I was doing good.
I knew something was gonna be weird when their management
kept saying, hey, they gotta right, they have to write

(01:27:06):
on they have to write. So I was like, okay,
you know, if they can contribute, I'm not mad at it.
Of course you're getting right right right, Well, nothing really
ever materialized from the writing, and so I didn't think
nothing else about it. Well, the record gets done and
then all of a sudden, none of my joints are singles,

(01:27:27):
and I'm like, oh, this has been a concentrated effort
to sideline me really, because they just probably didn't. They
were like, yo, he made all the money because he
wrote and produced because he wrote, and yeah yeah. So
they was like they just tried to side, but they
knew they couldn't take me off the record because they
needed my sound. But at the same time, they didn't
releasee anything that I did as a single. Did they
write on any of those other songs that you didn't do?

(01:27:47):
I don't think so, especially certainly not the ones that
hit like You're the only Maybe they right on that.
I don't know, but I know all Star was responsible
for killing it. And but see all Star was a
part of the original success via the remixes, So to
me that made sense. That was a continuation, you know
what I mean. But at the end of the day,
same subject things. You're the one. It is the same thing.
It's the subject of I'm on You. It's the same

(01:28:08):
subject again. You're feeling so even this time around with
the proven history, like there's not more of a bonding
between you guys, is just strictly business and such such. Hey,
let's not ruin a good formula, because there's nothing harder
than doing your second album and having it proved that. Yeah, no,

(01:28:30):
it went the exact other way undenounced to me. I
had no idea that it was so hostile towards me
until it happened. And when you call the album new beginning,
you're trying to tell me something damn. So how long
did that? Because y'all are you know, y'all are back
to good beautiful but but I mean, but then but
they left that particular manager was that they was was

(01:28:53):
the reason for all the drama sounds like between me,
between them between it was bad. Yeah. So I was
so happy to see y'all get back together for rain Man,
Like when y'all when they did the uh release, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was so yes, if he's back with Bran It
wasn't because I chose to really that moment a little

(01:29:16):
backstory quest yes, yeah, alright, peepe this. So I was
so hurt by the whole not releasing songs like Fine
Time that people consider should have been a single the
ballot or what's it gonna be? Um, That's what I'm
here for. I got five solid joints on that album
that I thought at least one or two of them
could have been singles, and so most of the fans.

(01:29:38):
So I was like in my mind, I was like, Okay,
I'm done with them, I'm moving on. Uh So Brandy.
I was focusing on Brandy because Sylvia Rhone reached out
and gave her Merlin Bob I know you guys remember
that name, Merlin Bob. They reached out and gave me
a production deal, a song deal rather, and they're like, Yo,
we're gonna do like a five song deal with you.
Can you give us some joints. I'm like, hell yeah.

(01:30:00):
And I was like, but I want to work on
Brandy though, and she's not really you know, she was
on Atlantic. She wasn't on East West, so in the the Atlantic.
So she said, well, that's in our family word. So
I wrote three joints. One is called Don't Change, one
is called Rain, and the other one was a third
one that I have. I've never titled it. It was
just a third joint. So look, so I let them
hear them. They're like, Yo, that's crazy. You need to

(01:30:20):
get in with Brandy right away. So I'm in New York.
They put me in Daddy's house, the studio, and we're
going in there and we're about to cut it. And
I remember distinctly Kelly Price was working with Diddy in
one room, uh Deangeltti might have been in another room,
and I was in this room that me and Brandy
was supposed to potentially start cutting Rain. And I remember

(01:30:41):
playing Rain for Diddy. He said, ass I and then
and then and then you know, I just and I'm
still not over my I'm still not over my crazy thing,
you know. So so I'm thinking I'm gonna get in
with this one. But then he's like, yeah, anyway. So
I get a phone call and it's this A and

(01:31:03):
our guy Anthony Morgan at r C A and he's like, yo,
check this out, be um, please don't cut that on Brandy.
And I was like what He's like, yo, man, that's
the s W B JO. So it has circulated in
the in the in the you know somehow you most

(01:31:24):
circulating talked about man of Industry, right, so Pete, so
they're the net. It's amazing. It's crazy, right. But when
Rodney listen, when Rodney Jerkins took over the Janet, I
mean the Brandy record, he and this is the Boy's

(01:31:46):
Mind album, so I think, and Rodney'll tell you this.
He loves Rain as well. But somebody I don't know
who got it, who's here, But it ended up being
we're not gonna cut this on Brandy. Yeah, So which
is Angel and dis guy? Okay, so can you see

(01:32:09):
so look at so I'm cool because Sylvia then already
broke me off for these songs. So I'm like, that
was just a demo that I just got paying a
couple hundred thousand of worth. Awesome. And so then I
said to Anthony Morgan the next day, you know what, Okay,
I'm here. We can cut it on. We can cut
it on this that mov And that's how that got
on that Wow. So during the so during that session

(01:32:32):
where y'all, what was it like with you and Coco?
We are still cool or how was it? Now I
understand this. By this time a whole new paradigm shift
had happened. Missy and Timberland are part of the equation
now because they've come out when they're still right. So absolutely,

(01:32:52):
and so Missy called me to be to hang out
on the set of the Rain video, which ironic, both
these songs I'm doing have to do with water and Rain.
I wouldn't hung out. And because because he had cameos
at the end of that video. Remember seven oh two
is in there, and yes, who was not in there Cocoa, Missy.
Missy and Coco were beefing at the time. I was
some bullshit. Wow, yeah, some stupid ship probably some egos

(01:33:15):
ship but anyway, so Cocode was not invited to the
video of that Missy Elliott video, which I was, so
I wouldn't hung out. We recorded the vocals to the
backgrounds to reign on Taj and Lely at Electric Ladyland Hello,
very import did and then we did. I did Coco's
lead vocal at right track, remember right track? Yeah? Yeah,

(01:33:39):
So so those those are my two days in recording
in New York and in between just's me. That's me
from the demo let you just follow me. That's me.
That's me, of course, and that's also you singing, uh,
because I never thought, yeah, yeah, we can't forget it

(01:34:00):
out always in my mind tribute to my hero Charlie
Wilson in the gay band Turning All Day. And I
did it unabashedly, very clearly, and by the way, just
for this while we're in this moment quest. I made
sure after I saw you know, your Charlie thing on
on the on the on the other show, I was like, yo,
I feel like he lightweight kind of came after me
on week talk about I made a lot of money
on a week and it was basically he thought it

(01:34:21):
was another record. Truth of the matter. I never thought
about that record. I was only thinking about Wednesday Lover
the one me and you're talking about and and so.
But but he but it got back to him that
I said that, and he called me and he thanked me,
and he's like, yo, bro, no, he said this. You
are a gap band by your damn self. It's huge, right,

(01:34:44):
And so I'm like, man, I love you so and
I got this joint for him called better Man right now.
But if he does it, it's crazy questa quest we
gotta start sharing. Okay. Yeah. So once Rain came out
and uh and Missing Him came out, now we're in
a new whole paradigm shift. Thank god. I got to
play Rain for Timberland right in the studio as he
was mixing down. Are you that somebody? So in the

(01:35:07):
studio I walked in. I kept here and don't don't don't.
I don't want to play this whack as ballant ship
let me okay. And you know who brought me there
to that session was Static Major rest in Peace, Yes,
rest in everybody? Else would playing all my homies for

(01:35:29):
Player too, man, okay, Smunky everybody bro. It was crazy
black Man and so again, that was a moment in time.
I would never forget um. And I played it for
Tim though, and you know what he said, because his
ears are incredible. He went, I played him my demo
version versus the album version, and he's like, your demo
versions sounds better, Bro, I said, I know right, he

(01:35:52):
said better. He just got it right away. And guess
who else was sitting there? Jimmy Douglas. I was like,
I know, got Jimmy Douglas. You feel me so? I mean, man,
he's the greatest dude ever ever, Me too, Man, God man, crazy,
But that's you know, that's how Rain happened. Look how
the ripple effective rain has been so crazy? I can't

(01:36:14):
even tell you. Like yeah, on bro favorite changing jam
might remember one call away? I did like one copy
right now, I don't know that one called the way
it was with? I like that it was with with
Who's on the hook on that? I think, Okay, that's

(01:36:37):
Weave on the hook nice, that's the two Chingie jams.
And that's about y'all know it's out right now on
Rick Cross Summer Rain. Yes, ship, I gotta now you're
gonna make me listen to? Can I ask uh. From
the Pastorius point of view, how easy was it too

(01:36:58):
to clear that? Yes, very very easy because at the
time and n wasn't a whole lot of people sampling
JOCKO or do anything having to do with Jocko at all,
So it was it was very easy. It's just weird
because like I almost like, you know, there's some samples
out there there so quasi obscure that you might be

(01:37:20):
tempted to be like, I can get away with this.
You know, it's crazy. I didn't. I didn't let me
say this and I did not sample it. Let's get
I know that. I know. That's the thing like when
you when you when you're creating something like you know
all the time, I'll put it this way, I'll say
that I do what Yeah, But just like eighty P,

(01:37:43):
the O I do usually starts with a sample. I'm
not I'll tell you after we stop recording, but I
want to know that that's one of my favorite What
I'm saying is it'll start with this sample, and then
I'll make the decision on whether or not I'm gonna

(01:38:05):
ride with it all the way out or I'm gonna
freak it so that no one knows what it is
or whatever you know, and then I dress it up
and then I take the sample away and then blame.
It's a it's a song on its own, But the
Portrait of Tracy could be one of them things where

(01:38:25):
it's like, yo, this is mad familiar. I mean, yes,
you you definitely stuck with the melody or whatnot. But
in the beginning, did you definitely say like, I'm gonna
make a joint to Portrait of Tracy. No, I'm gonna
do this story right here is really quick. It's very quick.
The only reason I even know about Jocko at all
is because of Layla Hathaway. And so when I was

(01:38:46):
doing let Me Love You Like You described with Janet
and Jimmy and Terry, I went to her apartment. We
hung out, trying to get a vibe, just to get
between us right energy. He pulled out all this vinyl.
One of the vinyls was the Jocko debut, the black
and white John with Portrait white. But I was intrigued
with the cover. So when I pulled out and I
saw that Herbie Hancock did the notes, I was like,
oh my god. So when I started listening, listen when

(01:39:07):
that when portrait of Tracy came on. It's my whole
soul and spirit was just snatched and transformed. Right. So
I was like, oh my god. So when I went
back to Sacramento, before I even did let Me Love You,
I did my homework. I went and bought that CD.
So I just lived with it. Now when I heard
it again, I listened to us like, oh, that's crazy.
When if I ever used that, it's gonna be dope,
And then forgot all about it. Four years later, ninety

(01:39:33):
six whatever. But three years later, I'm in the shower
a hook comes to me and it's full entirety never
happened before in my life. A whole hook with the
words and everything came to me as I was showering.
Water is always involved in my ship. So I sucking
the whole rain down on me. Lad love is all
like man, it just came to me, and I said,

(01:39:55):
hold on, man, hold on, hold on, hold on. In
my mind I heard it the clearesting. I said, if
that jocko thing works with what this hook is, it's
gonna go together. Well, So I ran to my studio
with a towel on put the Jocko joint with the
Jocko joint on and I took it as divine intervention

(01:40:15):
when it was in the same key, heard the damn
and when I went, I said it. I sung it
out loud in MYO was on me and I put
the record on. I went and my hands went up.
I turned on that NPC. I did that beat right
then and there, yeah, absolutely in the tower, I said no, no,

(01:40:41):
this joint right now. I didn't want to lose the
feeling of what I felt. And I'm gonna tell you something.
My sample that I never told nobody in Rain, this
is a beat they ain't got to do with no
melody nothing. There's a beat on Michael Jackson's solo album
where he read does Bill Withers used me? So you
gotta check this album. It starts with a beat sunshine.

(01:41:03):
I mean, ain't no sunshine. This ain't no sunshine at
the beginning. I'm sorry, you know what I'm talking about.
So when you go boo boo boo boo boo boom, right,
if you listen to Rain, there's a little tiny thing.
I didn't want my beat to feel so stiff on
the NPC, right, So my beat is to bum bum

(01:41:27):
bum bum bum boom. That little boom is okay. I
love it. I love it, and that gives you that
that real human feel in there. So when people try
to recreate it on whatever devices that they have, they

(01:41:48):
forget that human element, like James Gadson or some damn body.
But it's like, you know what I mean. And I
did that, and then I just played the keys. And
then when I wanted to sample Jocko, but something told
me no because I didn't want to stretch it and
have it sound all weird. So I called one of
my favorite uh bass and guitar players over to my
house of Sacramento, and he just replayed what I wanted

(01:42:10):
to play, and I didn't want all the notes. I
just said, dude, yeah, I was gonna say. Every bass
player worth the greenish salt, like that's their entry into
the world of jazz. You gotta know your team town
by Jocko or weather Report, and you got to know
Portrait of Tracy damn right, like modern jazz. Like that's
just without saying. But you know what. The first person

(01:42:30):
that sampled it was Master P called It's called you
just don't know. It was the only only like nine
months later and it's called you just don't know what
you did to me? This though that him doing that
without getting permission paid off my publishing debt. It took

(01:42:54):
to Universal at the time, way back and then by
two that record because he sold four million albums. That
was on this album called the Last Dawn. It was
on the last song because that was the double CD.
It was right, damn, I forgot about that record. And yes,
four million albums, so way before Chiney master P did
it within a year of me putting it out right

(01:43:19):
paid off All of a sudden, I knew what I
had gotten from them as an advance, like and then
in two thousand it was already paid off. I was like, wow, yeah,
and it was because of that. Okay, So so one
big is it? Is it? Ever? As you look back

(01:43:40):
over your career, is it ever a part I guess
where you were at now where you still have the
yearning like to be an artist that'll be all the
just the great things you've done as a producer. Is
it is still a part of you that yearns tod
just like put out your own music and still seeing
because you still got it. I mean, you still got
the chops and you could still do it. So not
only that I am doing it, and I finally got

(01:44:02):
myself into a position financially where I can do it
and do it right and do it right. So that's
exactly what I'm doing right now, like putting something together
for you guys and the fans that love all the
stuff that we talked about, plus stuff I'll be slipping
out to certain people. Um, I'm totally doing that and
with artists I find that's what I just gave Quest
that was those exclusives that he could play if he

(01:44:22):
wants to. Because there's a couple of new artists on
there or and then some old me and Coco's on one,
and then this new girl, Nepetityavanni is on another. She's
a badass writer and a dope pass singer. Checked that
out joint called do It Again. I think you guys
are gonna gonna appreciate what we got going. And I'm
about to put out a lot of stuff that I
wanted to do on other people that I never did do,
Like those other two songs that I did on Brandy.

(01:44:45):
I want to put those out. So I'm trying to
get I'm just grabbing folks and putting them on joins
and I call it bamd's rare, remixed and unreleased. I
love you. I'm gonna put no, I'm gonna put the
new crazy with this new dude that's a crazy singer.
It's a whole another joint. Hey, it's trapped out. It's dope,

(01:45:08):
it's dope. Can you talk about well? I know that
there's not even I won't see a resurgence. But you
worked on uh with Drake? What was that situation? How
did that situation come to be? Came to be? Wow?
You know what's crazy I learned about Toronto is that
they're Detroit adjacent. And let me tell you something. The

(01:45:32):
Toronto fans, as far as st W vigos, are voracious.
They know their ship. Like I was shocked to know
that Noah, like man, them dudes no their ship. So
when they reached out. Um, I have been working with
d J Kalil, who was one of my best friends

(01:45:53):
here in l A. Thank God. Yeah, I love him
to death. And he's the guy that said, man just
moved to l A. Stop playing just moved because I
was just kind of like not one to live in
l A ever. Um. And but why is that, because
wouldn't it be easier for you to go to where
the water well is perveriably speaking? You know, it's funny

(01:46:16):
that would be true usually, But since I had made
such enough my own little lake in Sacramento, it was
easier to just stay in it, you know what I mean.
I was a small in my own little I created
my own thing there, and and I was doing my
dance stuff. I was just doing my thing. But it's
the it's when Chris Brown redid she ain't you two
right here? And it did so well, and then um

(01:46:38):
pulling me back in oh eight. It was just all
these little things kept telling me, man, maybe I do
need to step my toe back into it, just because
I had I had. This is what happened. I was
over the fact that we couldn't seem to get any
traction with black artists, and that it seemed like that
all the black stuff was getting done in white faces,
and and and I was frustrating, and I was just

(01:46:58):
over it. So I started doing one they would have
been done in white face. It was being called pop
and it wasn't meed R and B and right. And
then you all of a sudden relegated our chart all
of a sudden looked like the gospel chart used to
look what it's wrong with you? Are y'all kidding me
right now? And that somebody said white face, I'm right here.

(01:47:27):
I love it. Question hear me though? So like I
dipped out. I mean, you know why, because my mailbox
money was so crazy I could afford to. I wasn't
really tripping on what was that money? That's the dream
right there? That phrase is amazing. My mailbox money. Listen,
I'm telling you something pulling me back was a big
pop record, let me tell you. Dere shout out to

(01:47:49):
Jermaine Depre and a big not to Jermaine dupri for
real because a lot of producers don't wan't use some
other producers stuff. That was huge that he did that,
And I want to thank him publicly right now. Thank
you your main love you. Uh. And then again with
Chris Brown, what she Ain't You? And that did well.
So that was the year that I decided I'm gonna
move to l A. That I actually did it in

(01:48:09):
twelve And DJ Khalil is the person who received me
with open arms and and and as you know, because
he told the story about it's about Time album that
brings me to tears. He was playing basketball, thinking he
was about to be a basketball start, riding on the
bus and they gave them promos out for free to
a lot of people that he knew in the business.
And he put that on as a as a college
basketball player, put it on the headphones and on a bus.

(01:48:31):
He said, by the time he got that through playing
at this about time and changed his life. So that
and then the fact that Jeff Foreman is the one
who mentored him and gave him his first gig in
television doing music for um, what's that show? It's an
entertainment to my show called the other one they're calling.
That's how Khalil became that I got back in his

(01:48:53):
life because Jeff Foreman uh was working with him, you
know what I mean. So if you I don't know
if you guys believe in divine stuff like that, but
to me that that right there was it's a lot,
so long story short, Thank god I got in it.
Clearly already worked with Drake, so he knew what that
camp was like. And I was like, man, I want
to get down. I think forty found me from somebody.

(01:49:16):
I don't know how he found me. But he found
me and he asked me if I had anything original,
and I did, and that's how the song nine got done.
It's because I already had it and I sent it
to them and him and Boy Wonder touched it up
and that's how that got on there turning six two
and nine now, And that's how I ended up on views.
And as a result, I think the producer, who's amazing himself,

(01:49:38):
we started working and that's how I ended up on
the College on the Way record and on that because
if y'all listen, I'm just I'm just doing my best
Jimmy Jam imitation on the keys, all of that, all
of that, the keys baby, you know, the the nice
Roads chords. You feel me everything I miss at home,

(01:50:02):
warmth and all that. Yes, I'm trying to give it
to some crazy to see all this stuff come back around, man,
and I'm hopefully bringing it. I'm trying to do you
feel me like a quest? What do you think about
the on the Way record? Familiar? Oh? The College? No?
I knows with it? Yes, absolutely, work okay good on
want ship if you look okay? Good. So that's that's

(01:50:23):
how that happened. And lets the reverse of that. I
ain't feeling that ship. Hey, I'm hoping you like is
dope though not college is dope through that record, he got,
the talk record he got with disclosure, crazy hardest, Yeah crazy.
He don't do no wack ship. He's everything he does
is cool. And you know what I'm saying, shout out

(01:50:43):
the tongue. Yeah, yeah, shout they that's the homie over
at uh it keep cool, TUNGI and Josh the absolutely
and and thank you for making sure that that all
went down with with with Kaled. I mean, I'm out
here where you are right now, and you know, I
guess as evidence by especially with where we are in

(01:51:08):
and as we witnessed, uh, especially with watching the Monica
and Brandy uh sort of resurgence. It's I almost feel
like there's finally there's a respect with a K put
on the name of really good R and B. Like

(01:51:31):
do you feel as though this is now? Did you
was ever a point where you felt like it was
a little hopeless, like well, this doesn't exist anymore because
you know, I'll go to the iTunes charts and I'll
be shocked that like you know, like get lifted by
by John legend is still like the still in the
top ten of the R and B charts. One iTunes

(01:51:53):
like it amaze you how how deserted that you know
those charts are right now. But you know, do you
wish or envision a day where it's like, okay, we
could bring the art form of singing back. I think
Bruno has has brought it a long way with records

(01:52:15):
like Lucky for me. That's what I like where you
I mean, the kind of joints uh, my people out here,
my guy mars uh shout out to all of the guys,
a fitting hunt another James POOLEROI um, everybody like that
to me understand where it comes from. And so when

(01:52:36):
from Sacramento, Yeah, absolutely so what they get it, They
totally get it. And so I think they're bringing it
back around. And I'm just happy to be here, still
here doing it, and I'm just happy to be doing it.
So now to me, it's more exciting than ever to
be doing it with the authenticity that I have, you
know what I mean, And I still have the understanding

(01:52:58):
of today's stuff and what it is. You know, I'm
not one of the old heads that don't get it,
you know what I mean I know, man, you know
when we when we hung out, Man, that was the
thing I was just so surprised by because you were,
you know, a producer that like I grew up listening to,
but yet we still listen to the same things. Absolutely
you had you know, you had like doughnuts and I

(01:53:18):
was like yeah, he was like like like you was
you know. So I think that was something that just
the lesson I took from you, um, from that from
that meeting was just how important it is too. And
I tell you know, artists at this all the time.
You don't have to like new music, but you do.
I think it's important to understand it, understand why it works,

(01:53:41):
and understand why people gravitate to it. And that was
something always a matter about you, like you just worked.
I mean you was up on everything, like you knew
all the ship I was listening was like yeah, I
got that, and let's you was right up on it. Man. Absolutely,
I'm a DJ, and that makes it. You have to know.
I mean, how could you not know you're trying to
spend I mean I played dance, I played hip hop,

(01:54:01):
I play house, Like you gotta know what's what you
ain't seen? None of myself, dude, I've seen your sets.
I'll be working around. Man, I can never do what
you do. But you know I love you. I mean,
it's it's you being creative. That's everybody that you see
DJ and right now in the in the age of quarantining,

(01:54:22):
is trying to get the creative juices working. I love it.
I love watching DJ sets online too. You know see
what people are because you guys are so damn intimidating,
and I'm like, oure they They have done seven hours
before I even get the funk up, Like, I ain't
seen you pop up on my live man, what's going on?
You know what's crazy? After so much I started doing this,

(01:54:44):
alb I'm trying to get it ready for you guys,
your work work, But I'm so happy just to even
be in the conversation about stuff that we love like this, bro,
like and still here doing it. You're feeling that's my
most important thing. I'm like, man, thank god, I'm still
here actually doing it. You know, thank you, We appreciate it.

(01:55:07):
We thank you for coming on the show with us. Man,
this is thank you. Guys. We've been trying to make
this happen a long time. Yeah, I told you gonna
get you, so I ain't heard no call from like bro.
I love it, you know, because we made it happen.

(01:55:30):
I love you guys man. Thank you so much. This
is a jump off of a whole lot of stuff
to come. Once again, Brian Alexander Morgan, the great one
question of Supreme. We have a lot of sugar, Steve Takeolo.
I'm paid bills somewhere out there in the world. Thank
you very much for listening. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

(01:56:00):
What's Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.

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