Dr. Mathew Knowles

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Questlove Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. Lady
and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm
your host, Quess Love. We have to supreme with us
right now. Uh font Fonte, Colo, how how are you whatever? Yeah,

(00:31):
I'm I'm Ernest and Junior Gallo's brother. That's what I'm good, man,
I'm good. I'm chilling. I'm still still down stills down
thirty one. I kind of hit like a plateau, so
I think I'm kind of like I wait in the
same thing like every week. But normally when I do that,
the next week is like I have a big job,
so I'm seeing but I'm still on it. Man, I'm

(00:52):
there with you, bro. I'm touring a quarter pound a week,
so that's all really, That's what I'm hitting up platfor
right now. I'm trying to hit that last sixty So
put you down like should you love them? Right? Yeah? One,
I'm I'm going I'm going forward in total, I'm trying

(01:13):
to get You're trying to come out of the house
looking like it's just chesting up? Is that why bars chest?
That's trended in to day office like out the blue? Anyway, Steve,
how are you? Hello? Everybody? Nice to be here. That's good.
I'm doing I'm doing fine. You know, I gotta ask

(01:35):
you how you doing. Yeah, I'm doing good. Um, I'm
just waiting for people to applaud it after you said
my name. But that didn't happen, right, That's that's your
golf clap right there. Uh yah, Yeah, you're fine. I'm good.
I'm and I'm connective. I'm good as yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Because I visited a couple of places last week and

(01:57):
I was like, I was in Nashville. He's a little nervous. Yeah,
I was like, yeah, you know, I felt I'm one
of those people that felt I'm one of those people
that fall asleep. Um, and I'm too lazy to change
via air conditioning situation. And you know, if you're a
couple that really doesn't agree on the proper temperature of

(02:19):
a particular room, you know, I'll go to sleep and
put it on air, and then I'll sneak and put
it on heat and whatnot. Yeah. So last week I
woke up with the flu, and you know, I was
out of my mind right, like I got it. But
you know, and stuff like that, Okay, or maybe I

(02:41):
got it. I don't know. Yeah, I took like six No,
I took six tests. I definitely don't have it. Um,
ladies and gentlemen, I will say that, um, we've been
on the air well this this is our fifth anniversary
almost A yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of weird that
we've been doing this for five years and still feel

(03:01):
like we're on our second or third year. Anyway, Um,
we've been We've been on the air for about five seasons.
And I will say that the seed, the seed of
this episode was probably planted. I know that Salons was
definitely one of the first twenty episodes. I think she
was like episode fifteen. Yeah, and she planted the seeds,

(03:22):
uh in that episode basically that her her dad wasn't
just some random backstage dad, but rather um an accomplished
gentleman with both his his his NBA and his and
his pH d in business like that, yeah, dr and master.

(03:43):
But she also led us down the rabbit hole um
of his involvement in the the civil rights movement and
basically just hold us that the struggle and the sacrifice
that it took to ensure um that the old legacy
lived on forever in the history books, not only with

(04:04):
her sister, but yeah, as as in her father and
the rest of the family. I'm I'm beyond certain that
they are in mission accomplished land right now a hundredfold
as far as being in the history books. He is
the creator of of music, world entertainment. Uh. He's a
movie producer, a college professor, successful kids label, imprint, exact

(04:27):
recording studio, mobil, real estate tycoon, uh, cannabis company owner
podcast exactly. He even has his own podcast. Like our
first conversation was me being a guest on his uh podcast.
Um not to mention, uh, you know he is a

(04:48):
cancer survivor, breast cancer survivor, and you know, incidentally father
of two of the most uh dauntless and dominable artists
recording music. Ay whoever those two people are, I don't know.
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. Finally, of course, left Supreme

(05:09):
Dr Matthew Knowles, Hey quest love. Thank you for the introduction. Brother,
I uh, I have much respect for you, so thank
you for allowing me having this opportunity. It was a
little tough. We had the little sto starts and stops,
but that's like we do the best you can in

(05:30):
the pandemic. Yeah, it was a commitment. I will say
that you you made the introduction easy because sometimes I
have to add a lot more broth to the to
the to the soup than you know. You you you
know you came, You came well stocked. You know I didn't.

(05:52):
I didn't have to add any more flourishing uh words
to your tier impress resume. Um, where are you speaking to?
Was right now from your California in my office. We
have a corporate home here as well as in Houston.
But I'm just uh, I love here because I get

(06:13):
to you know, when I was I would just shared
this story today. Fifteen years ago, I was in my
office at at Sony at five fifty Madison, you guys
know whether that is, and the president told me they
had just hired the head of a n R paid
them five million dollars a year. And I asked him,
I said, why the hell did you hire this guy?

(06:35):
And he said to look out the window. And it
took me five about seven years to understand truly what
he met by looking out of the window. That creative
space we all get into and here it allows me
to just look out the window and you're seeing that.

(06:57):
That that sort of environment of looking out the one though,
and that's where the ideas come into play, or just
absolutely that's where the ideas come. That's where you know.
I work now on my biggest thing that I work on.
I'm very grateful the success of my kids and and
the success I had in corporate America and music industry.

(07:20):
But I work. I work on happiness. That's the number
one thing I worked. I work on each and every day,
that's happiness. How long it takes me to figure that out?
It took me, damn there sixty some years to figure
that out. Uh. You know, we work so hard to
get plaques and be number one, and then we find

(07:42):
ourselves in a space that we lack happiness and and
and that's what I work on. How can I be happy?
And part of that is gratitude and not doing a
damn thing I don't want to do. Man, that's the
episode right there. I remember, man, I remember watching your

(08:09):
interview you when you were on Breakfast Club, and you know,
you were talking with Charlemagne and you were saying the
way it was when you just put out your book,
which I really enjoyed the DNA of achievers. And you
were talking about how, you know, people compare Beyonce versus
Solange or whatever, and you were saying how every artist
has to develop success on their own terms for what

(08:31):
they mean to be successful, And um, I was curious,
like how did you learn that lesson in your career?
Like how did you you know, how did you make
that realization? Well? I have really great parents, and they
were poor, but I never knew we were poor until
I got older in life, and they instilled in me
the same thing that I instilled in my kids, and

(08:54):
that is you can dream and dream big because the
same efforts and energy on a little small idea, it's
the same energy and efforts on the big idea. So
my parents, you know, I watched them work their day
job but yet be entrepreneurs on the weekends and at night.

(09:15):
My daddy was a truck driver by day, working for
white folks, and by night he convinced the white folks
to let him use the truck all the time, and
he would tear down houses and sell the medals and
sell the woods and yeah, scrap metal. Yeah, I see
you know that. Man. I'm from North Carolina, so, um,

(09:36):
this is home for me. Well, we make wine, so
now I'm familiar. What did your mother? What was your dad? Well,
my mother was a colored, a colored made My dad
made thirty dollars a week as a truck driver. My

(09:57):
mom made fifteen dollars a week as a colored maid.
She convinced the white woman she worked for to give
her all of her hand met, hand me down clothes
and on, and convinced her to ask her her friends
to give her the hand me down clothes. And on
the weekend, my mom and a couple of her best

(10:18):
friends would make these beautiful quotes and sell them. Uh,
so I saw entrepreneurship. My grandfather was on both sides
and grand mother on both sides were entrepreneurs. So entrepreneurship
is part of our tradition and our family. Where did
you grow up? What does what? Gaston, Alabama, Alabama? A

(10:42):
little small town. You know. I grew up on a
dirt road with an outside bathroom until I was about
thirteen fourteen years old, an outhouse outhouse way. Yeah, I
have a question. You said something really crucial at the top. Well,
you said two crucial things. One to find happiness, which

(11:05):
you're right, that's that's something that we learned later in life.
I noticed I think last week I forgot what I
was watching. But I will say that one of the
biggest mistakes that I think the average black household and
stills and you know this is not strictly just black households.
I know this is a universal thought is oftentimes parents

(11:29):
will tell their kids, you know, it's better to be
safe than sorry are you know, have have a plan B,
have a bland C. But you know, oftentimes when you
said that, you know, following your dreams, especially um, when
you're living kind of in in a poverty level level

(11:50):
or at least below what what the what the average
what the average income is for for survival for whatever
time period you're speaking of. I know that, um oftentimes,
when people are in fight or flight modes for survival,
they often think that daydreaming is kind of a waste
of time. I sort of I sort of grew up

(12:13):
in my my family structure was definitely more about survival
than anything. My actual inner family, like my my mother,
my father, of course, they were like the dreamers of
My father was like one of nine kids, so you know,
kind of like I'll say that his family was more
or less about survival and in terms of getting a

(12:37):
good job, making good money, surviving, and he pursued his dream.
So how much of a risk it is it when
you are living in a situation in which you might
not know where your next meal is coming from or
that sort of thing. Yeah, like most most people can't
or it feels as though they can't afford to daydream

(13:00):
when they have bills to pay, that sort of thing.
So how do you like how what was different about
your situation than the average household? Well, I share what
my parents did. I like to use the word rather
than survival survival determination, Uh, they would determine. They weren't

(13:23):
passionate about doing their day job. That was more determination
to provide, just like you just said. Right, But but
my parents, you know, I think in the day day
dreaming process, at least for me with my kids, it
was always about finding that thing you were passionate about

(13:45):
and how soon and how early, uh, you can find
that passion. And then if you think about when we
think about the Williams sisters or Michael Jordan's or Michael
Jackson or Tiger Woods, they found their passion very very early,

(14:07):
and so my parents gave me that, that space, gave
me that, that ability to day dream, uh and supported it,
just like I supported my kids with whatever their passion.
And I always say, you know, had Beyonce or Slant
both said Daddy, I wanna I want to be a doctor,

(14:27):
I would have supported that. I would have sent them
to a school of that had science. I would have
gone to the you know, library and let them read
about science and medicine and surround them with that. But
I would have said, though, once you get your your
your license and graduate from med school, your dad would

(14:48):
will have bought a hospital. Think about that. It was
never you gonna work for somebody. It was you gonna
be in a position of of entrepreneurship and wealth, which
at black people we don't. We always hesitate and shy
about talking about building wealth. Not even Moore. Yeah, yeah,

(15:14):
you know, I ad meant that in my personal situation,
like you know, and even now I still wrestle with
that because you know, I come from West Philadelphia, and
I mean, like you can attest to this, like I'm
when I'm in Philadelphia, I still feel the need to
drive my first raggedy car. I've sentimental value to it,

(15:36):
but of course you know, I also have a grown
man's car, I have a may bat but and you
have an Oscar winning documentary. We're trying to play broken,
and guess what, quit trying to play broken? Also break
us down how you diversify because some of us are
trying to get there because it's dope the way that

(15:58):
you do, the way you do with the product. But
here's the thing though, here's okay, so again, you too
have been following me the last year, so you know,
I've kind of been running the same narrative on the show.
I'm now learning that. Okay. When I when I was

(16:18):
doing the nineteen job thing where I said yes to
everything nineteen, I'll do that. I'll produce that. No no, no,
no no. According to someone nameless, she said that that
was me being the mayor. She's like, you enjoy being
the mayor. Like the mayor is the person that's sort
of like the super the apartment, you know, like fixing

(16:41):
the pipes and I'll fix your electricity, dada da da.
And she's like, first of all, you know, because you're
in fight or flight mode, you know, that's why you
keep saying yes to everything. And she's like, it's the
moment you let those things go and give yourself a
chance to breathe and look out the window. Which is
why when he said looking out the window, I knew

(17:02):
exactly because you know, I finally discovered that lookout the
window moment during the pandemic. You know, not a person
who said this was this that their names start with
G and Ryan with race. Yes, it was. So why
didn't we pick up on this looking out the window
thing when Good Times came on? Because we knew that

(17:26):
that was no. But it's it's daydreaming. You know. There's
a really interesting episode of Soul Train in seventy five,
don Cornelius asks, you know, at this point, Michael Jackson's
like seventeen, and you know, it's like a senior year

(17:47):
of high school. So you know, Donn is joking with
Michael Jackson about like him and Danny Boden dug in
the same high school and how Danny always gets in
trouble and Mike doesn't get in trouble. And you know,
he asked Mike like, well, what are you do in
your spare time like as a seventeen year old, And
Mike had a very very interesting answer that I used
to always laugh at until now. Mike's verse answer was,

(18:10):
you know, I just like the sitting day dream which,
right that sounded silly, but I didn't realize the importance
of daydreaming, that that that put your mind space in
the in the space of achievement. And if you you know,
if you follow Michael Jackson's career, especially in the Spike
lead documentaries, like he was a world famous for like

(18:31):
documenting his day dreams. One day, I want to achieve
the Internet and then I want to be the dinner
And so I'm realizing that now, you know, in this
late stage of my life. But you know, I I
really wish I could I could hone in and and
tell people at least listen to this episode how it's

(18:53):
so important to encourage your kids to dream two, you know,
really really take the time out to sit in silence
into to daydream, because you know, I kind of came
from a school where it was like, you know, burnahand
is doing the bush and you know, you know, if
you don't work, you can't eat, like all those idioms

(19:14):
that my grandmam used to say, like, wait, how bored
you know that I ain't gonna feed itself, that sort
of thing. Like I grew up in that sort of
household when my parents were on the road, and you know,
I always thought like, you can't afford to daydream, like
you gotta work to survive. And now I'm realizing it's
the the opposite. So and daydreaming allows us also to visualize,

(19:38):
to visualize where we can be be in the future,
because if we don't, if we don't visualize and see it,
like people ask me all the time, like did you
ever think that, you know, that's Chill or Beyonce or
Solange would be as successful. Absolutely, I used to visualize it.
I actually used to see it. Uh. And that's one

(20:01):
of the things that day dreaming and just taking time
out sometimes just like you just said, quest love just
to take time out. And the older I get, uh,
And I think it also has to do as you
get older and experienced life more, you begin to see
life differently. I'm you know, I'll be seventy years old

(20:25):
and five months and so I'm a reality I'm in
reality mode that uh, you know, time is my window
is getting short, and so I see life differently as well.
So that's part of it. Well, you just reminded me

(20:45):
that it's going to be two thousand and twenty two
and five months, like in my mind it might be
made minute. Now. He was born in January. That's like
next year. And now I'm realizing that anywhere is next
year exactly? Can I can I ask a question about
your upbringing a little bit? Because I know that one

(21:07):
of the things that brought folks to the attention of
how kind of dope you are for lack of a
better term, was the Solange album and when you do
the piece AD's Got the Right to be Mad, which
she wrote, but it's your story, and it made me
think about you talking about fantasy and how you basically
were raised and yeah, you can, you can fantasize, but
you also have this reality in your face of being

(21:29):
like a first Can you just talk about like that piece?
And yeah, I tell you, people just don't know Solange, Uh, Solange,
you know we made a big, big mistake on her
first album, you know, Solanze was fifteen. Was that the
Hanley Street Dreams Records. That was a great record, Solo Star,

(21:54):
Solo Star. You know, I made a big mistake. Columbia
Records made a big mistake of trying to make her
something she really wasn't and trying to make her a
pop artist. Uh, and that's not really who she is.
And it was with Hatley Street Dream Dreams that she

(22:15):
really took a stand about her artistry and she was right,
and she wrote her way and performed her way out
of the shadow of her sister. You know, we used
to say and Beyonce the little sister Solange. People don't

(22:36):
say that anymore. And people don't even know that Kelly
Rowland's first album, which people don't know Kelly Rowland either.
Most people don't know Kelly Rowland's album. Uh. First album
sold four million records outside of America, four million, and
that album half of it Solange wrote right word the

(23:01):
songs she wrote for Beyonce or Destiny Child or all
the other Mania artists. So you know, I really, uh
look back. You know, it's crazy because the next book
I'm doing it's called When I Look Back. But when
I look Back. That's the one thing I'm proud is
that Solange stood up for her artistics, her artistic expression,

(23:25):
and to become part of the process. Because you know,
when you're small, you're young, rather you don't become you
don't really get an opportunity to be part of the process.
So I'm proud of Solange. I still want you to
just talk about the interlude though with it. You got
the right to be mad at how you felt when
she came. Well, it was it was really an interesting moment.

(23:49):
What you don't know is Slange orchestrated. I had never
uh seen my former wife from since our divorce, and
we actually didn't know it, but we walked into a
room in New Orleans and so that that was a

(24:12):
special moment in itself. You know, you know Solange with
her creativity, Uh, she knew how to to I think
she knew also how to bring something out of me.
Uh and took me back to my childhood which uh
as a child, I never went to a black school

(24:35):
growing up in Gaston, Alabama. George Wallace al the governor
al Lingo, Uh you my my age from Alabama. You
know that name because this guy was over the state troopers.
You know, it was really tough for me being the
very first one of the first and going to a

(24:57):
Catholic elementary school and Gaston now Alabama? Who who who
does that? Who does that? Uh? And then going to
a junior high school with a thousand white kids, and
the first days, you know, George Wallace had this thing
about freedom of choice. You can go to any school

(25:18):
you want to, but you own your damn own. Don't
ask me to save you, support you, protect you your
own your own. So that that those were tough times,
being one of the first. And my mother was so
frightened in my junior high that she actually took a

(25:38):
job in UH at the school intellectoralm so that she
could be there as a cook, so she could be
there with her child. Because we did we never knew
what was gonna happen. We got in fights, you know,
the white kids would circle us and here we are
in the middle of a fight. We we didn't know

(26:00):
what was gonna happen that day. And Mr Novil, your
only child at this time, you have any brothers and sisters? Well,
you know I have. You know, my brother it has
passed on. He was nine years older. And my sister
who my parents adopted UH is nine years younger. So
we all in a way we're the only child has

(26:23):
always experienced and stuff by elself. Yeah, right, when do
you consider the salons made a lot about your your
involvement in the civil rights period. Of course, you know,
when if you're in gats in Alabama as a elementary
school student, I'm certain that every day was a day

(26:47):
for civil rights. But when do you consider your actual
entry into participating in the civil rights period. It would
be my first demonstration. You know, most people quest love
don't realize how young we were as kids participating in demonstrations.

(27:09):
And when the state troopers were beating they they didn't
care if you a woman, a man, or child. And
so my in that period of leaving your church, uh,
going to a Pennies uh store and sitting at the

(27:29):
counter there in the in the cafeteria and state troopers
companying people running screaming. Uh. Those were they experiences. I've
been beaten, I've been spit on, I've been electric prided.
And those of you that don't know what that is,
it's like a tool of the cattle. Yeah, that's used

(27:49):
for cattle. Uh. And they used that a lot, that
that electric product product on us. Uh. And and it
was really to remember one time I was demonstrating and
they made the older men take off their shoes and
walk barefoot, and it was like a hundred degrees, so

(28:11):
you can imagine that, or or when we would demonstrate.
I remember many times at night we would demonstrate at
the courtroom and and we had no outside facilities. The
ladies had to surround, the men had to dig holes
in the dirt. Uh. We did what we had to

(28:31):
do to survive. People don't realize what really went through
that civil rights movement and how people risk their lives
to get us to where we are today. That's why
I get I still hold people accountable because COVID and
a lot of what's happened is because when Donald Trump

(28:53):
ran for president, black folks we didn't vote like we
did eight years previous. And I'm always hope and remind
black folks the accountability of that. I had to take
a move where it sounds just to just that in
terms of well, when when you were knee deep in

(29:15):
these protests or whatever like, did you you're saying you
did this at a young age? Correct, Yes, I'm talking
twelve years old around that age. So even then you
had to wherewithal to to to even comprehend what you
were doing and why you were doing it. Did you
and you're at twelve, did you feel as though there

(29:36):
was going to be an endgame or a time period
in which you wouldn't have to do this anymore. I
just I just knew it was wrong. I was a child,
My mother was an activist. My mother grew up in Marian, Alabama.

(29:56):
My mother went to high school with Kreta King and
Andrew Young's wife. They all went to high school the
same grade. Uh, Lincoln Memorial High School in Merryon, Alabama.
By the way, we don't know the proper story now
Martin Luther King and Andrew Young married these two women

(30:17):
from Marion, which is about eight nine miles from Selma. Uh,
we don't know about brother Jackson who got hung in
Marian because the sel that's what you know. We talked
about Selma. It really started in Marrion and so but
but not to get on that. But my mother was

(30:39):
really engraved in a civil rights movement. So I understood
a lot. Were your kids. You don't totally understand it,
but you know wrong and you know you're being treated differently. Uh.
And I had to go to therapy, years of therapy,
years of therapy for racial trump muh. And if today

(31:03):
women can talk about things that happened thirty forty fifty
years ago and sexual trauma. Then we have to acknowledge
that also racial racial trauma impacts us. When would you
When did you start that journey of going to therapy
and addressing that? But how old were you? This is
my adult I'm talking in two thousand four or five.

(31:30):
Definitely a new trend for black men to talk about
going to therapy. I you know, I was in therapy
for I mean back to back weekly therapy for almost
ten years. Uh, and at the beginning didn't quite understand
because I have this personality and still have to work
on it, still have to work on it, this compulsive,

(31:53):
compulsive personality. You know, I love I. I I don't
know if that impacted cranes in the sky. But when
line say I drank too much, dance too much, a
party too much, that was me. You know, I did
everything to day much, trying to drink it away. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

(32:20):
And so that that was me and doing that period
that compulsive gotta do more, it gotta do more, it
gotta do more. I gotta do more, not not enough.
And so I had to come to grips of that.
It actually cost me my marriage. Uh, that that behavior
and and I hold I take responsibility and accountability for that.

(32:43):
I don't run a hide from that. But you know
it was up when I finally met and got a
black male therapist, things changed with me. When did you
find one of them? Oh my god, yeah, that's that's
one in Dallas, Texas. Brother there that uh really really

(33:08):
impacted because I had been going to a Jewish white
woman from New York who was traditional. Uh, you know,
all the acrimonyms. Uh. And and this brother said, no, no,
let's go back to your childhood from a different perspective.
Let's what was the trauma. And the trauma was you

(33:30):
were a kid fearful of your life. The trauma was,
you know, you were taught to feel not as as
as equal, less stand that you had to do all
of this stuff to get acknowledgement. Uh. And it's when
I began to understand that better. And I still have

(33:51):
to work on it. Yeah, I can see I'm touching
I'm touching things. This is almost I want you to
to take up this interview because, like you don't know,
in my head, in my head right now, I'm like
really trying to hold back the like this is ship

(34:11):
I wish like my my main regret was like right now,
I'm just really overwhelmed talking to hear an older black
man talk this way, because like I'm in my head,
I'm like, damn man, Like this is ship. This is
the evolution I wish my dad had went through before

(34:34):
he passed away, Like he kind of he kind of
landed the plane nicely maybe in like the last sort
of like the last year of his life when he
knew he was gonna leave, you know, and then we
finally like you know, because like black men just didn't
talk about feelings, especially boomers, like Dr Knowles is the
exception to the rule. But yeah, like this is really

(34:57):
I really have no questions left, Like I'm just I'm
I want to like, can I just ask? Okay, So
this is my question because you said you did some
racial therapy, and it's interesting because I thought about something
when a mirror said said something about the way his
parents raised him, about not being daydreams and stuff, and
it seems like the reason to go towards the racial
part is because and the reason sometimes for a black

(35:18):
therapist is because it's so the trauma is so deep
and generational that you need to understand why that generation
before didn't allow for daydreaming because they didn't feel like
it was allowed. That was how to protect themselves. Everything
that we do has such a cause, and a lot
of us just don't even We think that it's just
something fresh and new and something wrong with us, But
it's so generational and generational trauma. It's just and every

(35:42):
generation is I'm sorry, go ahead, no, no, no, no,
you're you're all on the right path here. I and
again I I I learned and and and learned so much.
I mean, there was a part of me, a chaotic
part of me, and I think we all have a
case oddit part of ourselves that we haven't comes to

(36:03):
come to grips with. And in that process was just
a lot I learned, Uh, like a root a sized rage,
probably a word you never heard before, rodic sized rage, Yes,
like okay, got it, okay, the therapeutic term um. I.
Because I was the skinny black kid, the coaching junior

(36:26):
high school asked me to play basketball and I was
always the last kid to get picked on a sand
loot with the black kids. But he thought I could play,
but I couldn't. Uh, But you looked at yeah, black

(36:49):
talk kid, must play basketball. But you know, I picked
up kind of quickly, and and and then something happened.
I understood quickly that by being a basketball star, it
gave me privileges, and so I started dating white girls
and started dating white girls only a Obama. But it

(37:15):
was you know, it wasn't over. You couldn't just be
out there with it, you know, but it made me.
And my mother was a good mom. But some things,
as all of us. She used to tell me, and
it wasn't embedded. Don't you ever bring no black napperhead

(37:36):
girls in my house? So so from so hearing it
from your and you're hearing that from your mother. Your
mother told you not to bring no not to bring
no black girls on right, no nappi head. But she
would have been okay if she was light complex she

(37:56):
passed the Paperbak test, then, right know, you're making me
so happy with this conversation right now, this is the
first I didn't even think conversations like this could happen
with any black person, at least not born before nine.

(38:17):
Because admitting that she had an effect on your choices
in that way too, like subconsciously, because yeah, she she
she understood that you know, she but a lot happened,
a lot happened to black folks that we don't understand
those impacts. And I'll just let you guys ask the question,

(38:40):
because this is, uh, this is going to a place,
this conversation that I think the universe wanted it to go. Ford, Um, no, serious,
So how did you okay? So in in this and
throughout this journey? One one thing that came to mind was, um,

(39:03):
once you got to the point where you were successful
and you know, you got your girls careers kind of
off the ground, and destiny was pointing everything, how did
you fight against that? I guess that survivor's guilt or
that survivor's were most kind of like seeing how far
you've come and realizing like, oh my god, like I
actually made it so to speak, you know, Um, how

(39:24):
did you fight against when you talk about this, those
old traumas, old no bad behaviors. How did you stop from,
I guess self sabotaging yourself in that way or were
you able to? You know, I I had to go
through this process of understanding why, and like I said,
it costs me dearly. But but to your question of

(39:47):
feeling guilty, about success. Um, you know, my my dad again,
my parents, My dad was a volunteer fireman. He wanted
to be that was his dream, was to be a fireman.
But you couldn't be a fireman in Alabama gas in Alabama.
We're talking the sixties, Uh, if you were black. Uh.

(40:09):
So my dad used to my dad was six four
four pounds calling big mack. Mm. And there's one word
to describe my dad gentle. Gentle. All he did was
helped people. So this whole thing about giving back. I

(40:32):
don't feel guilty about success because I learned as a
kid watching my parents give back to their communities, uh
and giving back to help people. Uh. So I can
I can say I never felt guilt guilt from success
because I worked very hard for it and was was fortunate,

(40:54):
um to find my my passion early in life, which
was ability to communicate effectively in the early days when
y'all were, when you were when you and Missnows and
y'all were working with the girls and doing Justine's Child.
How did you learn, I guess to kind of differentiate
between being the dad and being the manager, being the coach.

(41:19):
You know what I'm saying, Like, how did you know,
how did you kind of, I guess compartmentalize all those roles. Well,
that was that's a good question, you know. I have
to say I'm guilty of last night watching Jermaine de Pries,
the show called something Wrapped with the Ray Kids, with
the kids whatever. I mean. I watched six or seven

(41:43):
episodes and every episode had about five or six I
mean I was up about four hours. I couldn't and
they had the parents and the kids. They were all
between twelve and sixteen. You know. Fortunate for me. Again,
I did twenty years of corporate America, so I brought
a different skill set to the music industry. Uh the

(42:06):
most and you know, most people and media would have
what I call the Jedi mind trick. Have you to
believe that I left corporate America to be beyond age
manager and that's not true. I left and they always
say Xerox. Well, I left Xerox in eight and then

(42:27):
I was one of the first blacks. Uh, and in
my life have followed this pattern of one of the
first blacks. So listen to me through I was fortunate
and grateful to work at Zerox Corporation in the eighties,
which was a number one Corporations, and I was the

(42:47):
president of Minorities United in the Southern Region, which was
about four hundred black employees. I was the president of
that organization for three years. UM. I was fortunate to
be the number one sells RELP worldwide as Xerox Medical
Systems three out of four years. To be the first

(43:10):
or one of the first blacks, I'm not sure, to
sell m R I and CT scanners in America. And
to be a neural surgical specialist with Johnson and Johnson.
That's how I ended my career. People don't know my
my career that neurosurgical specialists. You I would work with

(43:34):
neurosurgeons and and implants and certain surgical procedures. UM, dealing
with the head and neck. Okay, we we kind of
went way deep into the future of the eighties. But
one of the question I had one, Uh, when did

(43:56):
you leave guests in Alabama? And how did you wind
up in Houston? I love Gaston, Alabama. In nineteen seventy
m I was fortunate to have a number of scholarships
and uh, my mother wanted me to stay close to home,
so I accepted University of Tennessee. That's where I played

(44:18):
basketball for two years. Uh and then transferred because I
had never been to a black school. And we had scrimmage.
You know how major white school scrimmage a little small
black schools. We had scrimmage Fisk University in Nashville, and uh,
coach Ronald Lawson, when he was leaving the floor whispered

(44:40):
in my not my ear knows, if you ever want
to come to a black school, you have a full scholarship.
And so I ended up transferring to Fistic University. Uh
and and and graduated there. And in seventy four worked
at a T and T for a year and a half.

(45:01):
And then me and my frat brothers American side five.
What was amazing before we go? What was what you study?
I had a degree in economics and one in business
business administration. Uh and we we actually, me and three
frat brothers got in my nine ozomobile the University of

(45:24):
Tennessee gave me. You know, used to get cars and stuff.
It was legal work there back in back in the seventies.
You know you can do that. Uh. And and we
Tennessee State played Texas Southern and we got to Houston.
We were like, man, wait a minute, something is wrong.

(45:46):
These frat brothers got these good jobs, man, and they
weren't even as smart as us. So so I just
got in the car December six, in eighteen seventies six
and made one stop, which was a crazy stop, but
got to got to Houston, and uh had a job.

(46:08):
I mean I literally worked at Lanear Business Products and
Pipney Bowls at the same time for a month, for
the same at at the same time for a month.
Because what they used to do was to give you
a big book and you would go and study at
your apartment and then they would send you to training.
So I wasn't I was like, wait a minute, I

(46:29):
could do that at my apartment and get paid by
both of them. So I got paid by both of them,
and then I ended up taking the Pipney Bowls. They
used to be the leader, and you used to have
to if you're a business, you had this machine that

(46:50):
did the milling and postage. It was still envelopes and
stamp stamped envelopes. It was like the number one leader
in that area because it was I was I was
in sales and marketing that you're telling us you're like
the ultimate salesperson, and I think oftentimes people don't realize
the talent that it takes to be a salesperson like that,

(47:13):
like especially on equipment and things of that nature. Like
that's a whole another talent that I now I see
that transitions well into management. Now you're selling yourself. You
ain't selling product. You hit it, you hit it on
the head. People by you then your product. And in
the music industry always tell my artists you, I call

(47:34):
it the three second rule. When you see a new
person for the first time, in three seconds, your brain
comes up with what you think about them. You say
they attracted, they're not so smart, or whatever. It is
your your brain in three seconds, and it it's hard
to change that opinion once someone has opinion of you.

(47:58):
M three second okay, So okay, if you apply that,
I'm certain that you well, you're at least in the
field in which you know you have to make an impression.
It's okay now that you say that, Now I really
regret a lot of life decisions because in my profession,

(48:19):
now I'll be honest with you, in my profession, I
thought our advantage was if you underestimated me. And that's
a lesson that Richard taught me because here's the thing
my my my late manager Richard who passed away from leukemia.
He Rich Rich was a guy who's I mean to

(48:40):
say mensa, To say mensa level genius would be an
understatement when it comes to Rich. But because of rich
also taught me the value of what he would call
primitive exotica, which was he knew that there was a
sort of curious fetish size the factor about him that

(49:05):
interest uh, certain prominent white people. Here's a great example, um,
Norman Lear creator and yeah, yeah, Norman is actually now
like he's still alive. We we happen to be at
an event in l A. And Rich is the kind
of guy that you know, like when when white people

(49:27):
discover like that smart black guy that really impresses them
almost like it's like their new tory, that sort of thing,
like that's the person that Rich was. Rich was the
guy that read science books and all these things, and
so you know, he would sort of just work his stick,
knowing that people were underestimating him as he spoke, but
realizing like wow, how amazingly smart he is. And next thing,

(49:49):
you know, like Norman Lear literally said, can you go
on tour with me and Rich trying to explain like no,
I'm actually a manager of like a band and I
have a real job. Norm It's like no, I just
I want you to And Rich actually spent two weeks
with Norman Lear and Beverly Hills, and Norman just took
him to every all his friends, like, look at my

(50:10):
new I know this sounds really weird, like it's the
update of the toy, but Rich is a nice chocolate
and it's right. But Rich also knew that the scary factor,
like the fact that if you see Rich in the
first three seconds, you're thinking of the scariest thing like
and then you know, he starts with this Harvard you know,

(50:32):
intelligency a thing, and that just totally throws you off.
And I don't know, like I think in our service,
I'm now I'm now trying to unlearn everything that Rich
taught me. And because the way that we entered through
the gates was to always be underestimated, like people to
see the roots and like, oh my god, what do

(50:53):
you all like arrest development PM doing like y'allo and
all those things. But then we start playing and be like,
you know, it's it's like when when Dame dash it
on Connie's Western like oh ship, it's not whack, like
oh god. We I sort of used that factor for
the longest. Instead of trying to make a good impression,

(51:16):
I would always try to go through the door to
lower the expectation. Yeah, like, I lived life trying to
lower expectations. And then I'm now noticing now thirty years
later that maybe that didn't serve me too well. Well,
you know, we all learned and and and and I'm
sure he was a really, really good manager. But we

(51:38):
have different perspectives. I I think for me, it's the reveal,
just similar to when you see an artist for the
first time come out on stage. You know, we have
music world. We work on that reveal, those first three seconds.
Think about it for a second when you see Solange
and Beyonce, what happens in the first three seconds of

(52:00):
their show. Dude, you don't even have to tell me.
A matter of fact, the first time I ever met you,
The first time I met you, you know, Beyonce was
starting her her first solo tour, the one that she
did with Missy and Alicia Um And by that point

(52:23):
I had seen maybe three of her shows in which
you know, I always told her like I was, really,
I'm really impressed with your interest is like you you
do these amazing The way you entered the stage is really,
you know, crazy, like I so, so when they came
to town to philip I'm from Philadelphia. Right before she

(52:45):
goes on, I was like, okay, so what's the interests?
Like She's like, you're gonna see running the artist stay
stayed by the sound boards. I didn't realize. Okay, so
she did the thing where she entered from the back
of the stadium, uh, with the gentleman carrying her on
the like the queen ache thing, right. And the thing
was is that I came just to see how she

(53:08):
was going to enter the stage, because by that point,
next to Michael Jackson, I've never met anyone that really
really concentrated hard on making a first one, like a
good impression on the first minute. And I also know
I learned another thing that show at least five minutes later. Okay,

(53:31):
So the way that the stage is set up at
one point, if you if those who are listening to
the podcast, if you remember like those old like uh
sort of like Vegas review shows where the person's name
would be spelled out and lights like a bunch of
light bulbs. There was one lightbulb out on the letter
oh of Beyonce, and I saw you lose your mind

(53:57):
in the sound, and then sudden I stopped watching her
show for like twenty minutes, and suddenly I've never seen
like this is my Malcolm X moment where the guy
goes up to him in the cafeterias, exactly like I've
never seen one person bark in order and sent twelve

(54:23):
people absolutely running to the hills for their lives to
fix one light bulb on stage. I've never seen that
in my life. And and you know why, because that
lightbub was blinking, which could affect it Beyonce's concentration. Yesh, Yeah,

(54:45):
I watched you for the next twenty minutes because you know,
normally in that setting, I'm on stage and I'd never
get to see, you know, the running of the show,
because if I'm at a concert, i'm watching the show
or I'm on stage. So this is one of the
rare moments where I'm watching someone run the show in

(55:06):
a way that I never ever ever And and most
people don't realize Destiny's child entire um performance career Beyonce's
first three of four world tours Solunge first tours, I
did the front of the house sound and I did

(55:29):
that because Destiny's Child did. Their first tour was with
Boys to Men. And when you have four ladies singing
and everyone played a role one one person in between songs,
that's who talked to the audience. Uh. And so I
would punch in and out, punching and out vocals, and

(55:52):
we had the back ground tracks on the tape. Uh.
And so the engineer back then you paid the junior
engineer fifty dollars a show, but he didn't know who
was singing and win he didn't and so it sounded awful.
And I said, hey, teach me, teach me. And so

(56:15):
from that point when we're doing TV tracks, and then
when we got to when Beyonce was doing band, I
didn't do the band, but I always did Beyonce's and vocals.
How long did it take for you to master that?
I mastered it quick. I mastered like two or three shows, uh,

(56:37):
because I just knew when to put the delays, when
to punch in, punch out. I mean things. The thing
people don't know about Bequest loves at all you know,
they don't know this at all. Okay, So the thing
is is that um okay, so when you when you

(56:58):
get to Houston, I don't know the exact year that
you've moved, but December six, okay? You all right? When
you are developing, first of all, how do you know
that the talent that your kids have? How do you
know that it's it's beyond just like performing at family

(57:21):
functions and Thanksgiving Like I used to be called to
the table all the time to do the robot I mean,
do with Michael Jackson real quick. That's where it comes from.
Every parent has that story where they you know, they
wake up the kid from sleep and you know they're
having a party downstairs. All right, all right, go singing
Aretha Franklin version right, Wait what you saying? My parents

(57:51):
was good parents? I know what I'm saying. Well, I'm
I'm just trying at what song did you sing? I'm
trying to hear what keys like? What don't you even seeing?
Oh you would see close the door, But I don't
know what I'm saying. Close the dude. You would get
that loan, you can get that deep that was that
was waiting all day long. That was your point. You

(58:11):
wanted to know what key did she say? That is? Yeah?
What did I do? The words? Words? I think you
just might have won the animated for real? Closed the
door and I'm shooting me. That was that was Teddy

(58:33):
made in the grass. Oh you got joke? No, I
have jokes, but I'm quick with my jokes man. What's
your sign? I'm sorry, I'm just capricorn? Indeed, yes, indeed?
What's your birthday? January night? Okay you Jemine, I'm December twenty, Yeah, capricorn. Sorry, Steve,

(58:59):
we are yeah we are wait Stevens soon right, yeah,
September six, virgos Uh. We're amazing people. We just can't
figure out what to order in the restaurant. But other
than that, pretty great. You are amazing people. Beyonce, it's
up timber fourth, all right. So when how do you

(59:28):
know that this is much more than just you know,
good for good for the church choir? How do you
know that? Okay, my my daughter might have something so parenting,
you know, my I think the role of a parent
with their kids is to surround them with as much

(59:51):
as they can. I would take the girls and me
and my my former wife, who would take the girls
to like I said, to the library. We would ate
them and and support their science fairs. We would get
them and dance lessons, uh, and so that they could
figure out and we could see what they gravitated towards.

(01:00:13):
And and both Solange and Beyonce gravitated towards music, and
so then we surrounded them even more with support. So
for Beyonce, she was in the she was eight years old.
She was in a talent show against the twelve thirteen
year old kids and we were sitting there. It was

(01:00:36):
her first time performing, and she said, Mom, Dad, I'm
I'm ready to the to go so we can go
eat because I need to win a hundred dollars and
take my get my trophy. And we said, well, how
do you know you're gonna win this talent show? And
we weren't paying attention to her, her practicing or anything,
and she said, I just know, I just know, And

(01:00:58):
sure enough she gotta stand innovation. Well, after she won
thirty one consecutive talent shows, we then start thinking maybe
maybe this is what she really likes, and maybe this
is what she might be one day entertainer. And the

(01:01:21):
same with salons same kind of story. And I gotta
say this, Salionz has something really different. Salons When she
was about nine, One day we came home, she was
with them. May she dismantled about twelve of Beyonce age trophies,
totally completely dismantled them. I understand it now as a parent,

(01:01:46):
she would saying, what about me? What about me? So
these trophies don't mean nothing. We're okay. So I know that,
um and in order that uh what's his name? Um? Blink?
And the tipping point uh oh Malcolm Malcolm Gladwell, Yeah,

(01:02:11):
and outliers that you know, he says that ten thousand
hours of preparation equals genius. I've seen, you know, some
clips about you know, camp Knowles or whatever, how you
would would train them how? Okay, First of all, can
you explain about the decision to leave your cushy comfort

(01:02:36):
uh job as as a salesman? Yeah? And yeah, what's
the what was the decision to really make the leap
into Okay, I'm going to now steer this, steer this
empire to where it should go so that we can
have a legacy. So so you know, when I was

(01:02:59):
at Xerox Medical Systems. I told you I was highly successful.
They're hilly successful at Phillips, not so much successful at
Johnson and Johnson and that neuro neuro surgical position. I
didn't like it because you know, I came from selling
a five million dollar piece of equipment to selling a

(01:03:22):
whole bunch of thousand dollars instruments, and I didn't like that.
I didn't like on the weekends go into the operating
room and having a pager every other weekend. I just
didn't like getting up at four in the morning going
to surgery. And so one of the hospitals in the

(01:03:42):
Medical Systems UH Center, after a procedure, I got paged,
So I thought, did the patient die? Did I say
something wrong? Did I do something wrong? So I run
up to the neuro surgeon's office and he tells me,
Mr Knows, I can't use your instruments anymore. And I
asked him why. He said, showed me the letter that

(01:04:06):
if he didn't reduce his cost per procedure. If he
didn't reduce that he was not he was gonna lose
his privileges at that hospital. And no surgeon wants that
because that's still livelihood m at that point, I call Tina,

(01:04:26):
my former wife, and said, I can't do this ship anymore.
Quote that's exactly what I said, because I was like,
I'm not selling quality, I'm selling costs, and I just
can't do that. I'm I really ready selling a whole
bunch of little stuff. Uh. And I just didn't like
what I was doing. So I realized at that moment

(01:04:47):
that was a defining moment, and we all have defining
moments in our lives, that I had to do something else.
I was gonna get fired anyway. So I knew I
had to do something else, and I decided I won't
to change my career. What people don't know is when
I was a kid, my dad, at four hundred pounds,

(01:05:07):
could dance his butt off, and we they would go,
my mom and dad on Sundays into the living room
that had that plastic on it. Y'all too young to
understand who you're talking about plastic on these now, So
they would go in there, man, and they started dancing,

(01:05:29):
and my job was to put. I had a nickel,
a diamond, a quarter, and we had vinyl, and my
job was to put and look at that vinyl. And
finally I you know more I heard it. I knew
so it went scratch because my dad would get really
mad when he was dancing if the record scratched. And
so I didn't start reading the liner notes. And I

(01:05:54):
didn't realize. But I became a DJ. Every Sunday. They
did this every Sunday, you know they I knew I
could tell by my my dad's emotions what songs to play,
and that's really what the DJ does. Anyway, I knew
peatures and hers closed my you know I do. I

(01:06:15):
better put close my eyes on right now. Fats Fats Domino,
you know, that was one of his his jams. I
knew if he wanted to do some up tempo, I
better do fast Domino. But and most people, and I'm
not most hally anybody knows that. In high school, I
was actually we had a boy group. You know, back

(01:06:36):
in the day, talent shows was a big thing in
the black community. Uh. But at our high school, we
had a top you know, we we want Actually we
did the Psychedelic Shock by the tempt Taste. That's where
it's at. Yeah, And I just love music. I always
love love the music. And so I decided and at

(01:07:01):
the same time, Beyonce was in this girl group called
Girls Time All Idea because my former wife was we
on the hair salon and so on. The weekends was
her big days and that's when the girls were practice
Fridays and Saturdays. Uh. So I would drop her off
at practice, go play basketball, come back and pick her up. Uh.

(01:07:25):
And then they got to Star Search, which is like
American Idol, and they lost, and I'm there. They asked
me to come to bring all the wardrobe because the
then managers thought they were gonna win for a month
and had a whole room just for the wardrobe. And
then when they lost, I came up. I went up
to a McMahon. I said, well, these kids are crying

(01:07:47):
their hearts out. What what do I do? And he said,
I don't know why, Mr No, Actually I don't know why.
He had done Carnelia's voice. He said, but everyone that
consistently win on the show professionally go on to do nothing.
It's the people that lose Aaliyah justin timber lay Usser

(01:08:13):
Alana's mark said, I go on and on that lost,
they went on to be successful because they recommitted, rededicated,
change their organization. And I never forgot those words and
that because people that win think they want they think,
oh I made it right, right and so as and

(01:08:37):
so it's interesting. It's like eighteen A list artists google it.
Sometimes you'd be surprised all the people. But but but
I actually ended up because I I have always believed
in knowledge is power. So I went back to UH
Junior College, Houston Community College here in Houston, and on

(01:08:58):
the weekends I took Artists Management, UH Music Production, and
I took UH Publishing on the weekends on Saturdays, and
over a year period and went to every seminar I
could UH and and I would be the guy you
want to shut up because I keep asking every question.

(01:09:21):
Everybody shining quiet. I'd be like, oh, well how about this?
And why do you do this? Right? And up? And
I understood relationships. Now this is what's gonna surprise you.
The first artists and Google is the first artist that
I ever signed to a major record deal. And the

(01:09:44):
first artist that I signed as a manager was not
Destiny Child who was it Little? His single is Can't Stop.
He was signed to m c A Records in the
peak when they had Mary J. Blige, Joden see p Diddy.
I can go on and on. What was his name again?

(01:10:06):
What was his name again? Little Little? And the single
is called Can't Stop and it features Destiny. How the
hell did I convince m c A Records to put
a Columbia Records artist that didn't even have a record
all his first single? But I did. But Little alas

(01:10:27):
my first artist, a rap artist. Yeah, but the sample
is Loosens. Ah, yeah, you can't stop the range. Wait question, okay,
because I didn't ask this about your Xerox thing, but
who is your communications expertise? Is that self taught or

(01:10:49):
did you Is this something you learned in college? Because yes,
I do know that the key to a successful business
person is one that remembers names and you know as personable,
is a people person, all things that kind of don't
like about this industry. But I realized that I have

(01:11:09):
to jump in the pool someone be grudgingly, but like,
who taught you the art of communication? You know? My
my foundation is UH and was from Zerox Corporation. And
if you read the search UH there's been so many
presidents of corporations black men and women that that in

(01:11:34):
the in the eighties, talking back in the days seventies
and eighties that worked in Xerox in Leedsburg, Virginia. Uh,
there was actually a college that we would go to.
I credit Xerox Corporation for all of my success in
communications and understanding people and understanding how to sell myself,

(01:11:59):
build relations and ships. I always will credit them because
they taught me and many others foundation that is unparallel.
But it doesn't get exhausting like remembering names, and I'm
terrible with that. Have have to. I remember faces, faces,

(01:12:19):
I would face, I remember sales calls, and I would
have everybody come into the to the to the meeting
in a comforence room and I have on a piece
of paper chart. Well, I hear everybody's names, so I
can remember their names CD chart. I'm terrible with names.
It's still bad at names. That's what some people get

(01:12:40):
the joy out of. You don't remember me, do you? Yea?
And I just now I'm just blatant, like absolutely not.
I don't remember. Yeah, I'm absolutely terrible with names. But
you know that's where I learned it. I learned from
Zerots Corporation. Um, can you talk about pounding the pavement
actually landing a record deal? Yeah, I can because uh

(01:13:03):
we were. I got a number of letters that said,
we formally passed on your group called Destiny shall Uh.
Then you know, the group went from Girls Time. Then
they signed with Darryl Simmons, l A and Baby Face
Partner still to the day and writing uh and solid

(01:13:23):
partner production. They got dropped by Lecture Records. Sylvia was
the president. Then she hates when I say that. She
hates when I say that, but but but it was
she she literally Darryl had a new production deal and

(01:13:44):
he had three artists. The girls were called the Dolls,
a name I really disliked. Uh then and he she
ended up ending the production deal, but she had the
right to continue with the girls. But I understood that
she had this girl group called InVogue, and why why
the hell would you want another girl's group and a

(01:14:06):
bunch of parents. I get it. Uh So I I
understand that now. But yes, uh we the girls. You know.
I came up with this idea when they came back
from Atlanta. I changed the name to something Fresh, and
then we did a photo shoot and I sent out packages.
I used to spend a lot of time. Way I

(01:14:28):
didn't have a clue then I would have a package
with maybe twenty pages, photos and all kind of stuff, uh,
not understanding less was more, uh, And then I would
get these past letters, and then I came up with
another name, other girls, and then we came up with
the name Destiny, and then Destiny became Destiny's child. So

(01:14:52):
this this started, this journey started when Beyonce was eight
years old, and she got signed when she was fifteen. Also,
so you're saying me that you would get a round
of news and then your idea was, Okay, we're gonna
come back as another name, Like how do you convince them? Like, Okay,

(01:15:13):
let's read, let's regroup and this time we're gonna call
ourselves this and do it all over again. Yeah, it
was a bad idea. And I would assume that you
would also try to do the usual payment pounding at
the jack the rappers of the world and all those commissions,
all of them, all of them. I was there. I

(01:15:36):
was there with a whole stack of business cards, you know,
but the whole stack of CDs. So who had cast
back there? I'm I'm amazed that you never gave up,
because from the story that I'm hearing is that you

(01:15:58):
have to make a few rounds to the same labels
over and over again with new names or you know,
like a new n R that. And I mean, you
never once worried about like the proverbial I roll of
whoever is at you know this pretending how God Matthew

(01:16:20):
no matt Noles again. Okay, I'll take the car, but
you gotta remember about my background. I was the number
one sales were up in the world. It sales, you're
gonna hear. No, No, it's just I didn't present it correctly.
That's how when I get don't know, it's like, okay,
I didn't present that right, and there was and the
girls weren't taking this personal or any of those things

(01:16:42):
like you just like, how do you break it to
them that it didn't work out or it's not our
time that like, how how do you break bad news
to them that doesn't break their spirit? Well, I was
being honest, first of all, and they weren't. I mean,
and in reality, they weren't ready. They really weren't ready.

(01:17:05):
And they accepted the fact that they weren't ready, that
they had to improve, they had to grow, they had
to practice, they had to get more focals. This was
their passion, and they accepted that and they did the
things because they also were best friends and they got
to spend time and had a lot of fun as

(01:17:27):
a little girls do together. Can I ask, because I'm
now realizing I have a rare chance to ask a
question of this manner that I probably wouldn't have. You know,
it comes into twenty years ago to ask you, And
I'm kind of jumping ahead a little bit, um, but
that that that that period between like in two thousand

(01:17:53):
and one, where you're making personnel changes and whatnot. And
I know, you know, just from the line of work
that I come in, how discipline, rigorous discipline, and you know,
you kind of have to be on your p's and
queues in this business and oftentimes you might have weak links.

(01:18:15):
I mean not to just to dismiss people as weak
links or whatnot, but you know, I know that, especially
pre or the beginning stages of the Internet, a lot
has been said of your sort of backstage dad control
of the group of what what do you what is
the biggest miss perception of of your role during that

(01:18:38):
period in which you're you're changing personnel, Like right before
Michelle Williams came into the group. What what what do
you feel the of course, now you know post two
thousand or two thousand to two thousand three, like post Survivor,
then you know, now it's like you know, your your
your dad of the century. But it was that that

(01:19:00):
that period where we didn't know what was happening, like
was was this going to be a dream Girls supreme
situation or was it going to be a destiny fulfilled situation?
But what did you feel during that period was a
major sort of misconception of just like how that situation

(01:19:23):
went down. Yeah, I just never I just never really
cared what people said about me. I understood again from
Xerox's leadership and what true leadership really means. Uh, people
aren't gonna and when you have visioned are people aren't

(01:19:45):
gonna get that most people. Matter of fact, I'm glad
most people don't get it because for those of us
that our vision areas, if everybody got it would make
it really tough to be be successful. Uh. So I
had a vision, I had leadership, I had an amazing team,

(01:20:06):
and I just said earlier, the team has been together
for a long time, from road manager to the accountants
to you know, music directly. Uh publicist, Uh, Yvette Noel
Shore twenty plus years. Uh, these guys have been together,

(01:20:28):
and so I built a really good team. Uh. It
wasn't just me, but we had our own vision. You know, Tina,
my former wife, did an exceptional job on the imaging.
You know back then those girl groups were in uh
you know, boots and baggy jeans, and we wanted to

(01:20:48):
do glamour and and bring back the Supremes. Uh. We
always had a vision that we had and we didn't
straight from that. And if you know anyone quest Love,
they're actually really worked in the Left Record label and
really was there. I think you would get a totally

(01:21:09):
different perspective of the role I played and what really happened.
I mean, fans, you know, we are in the industry,
fans are you know, fans are gonna have their perspective,
but they don't really know. Fans don't really know what's
happening from an outside of perspective. My I think my

(01:21:31):
kind of Matthew knows moment. I had heard like all
the Destiny Child stuff, and you know, I were going
through the group changing everything for me. I understood the
type of businessman you were when I saw you signed
Daylight Soul. When when you signed them, I was like,
worth the funk up, Yes, I can get it, you
know what I'm saying. I was so happy to see
like that first single shopping bags. People don't know this

(01:21:55):
about me, you know that we don't know we know
everybody else, Yeah, they don't know. In two thousand and two,
I sold music well it's it's you can google it
for ten million dollars and UH thirty million in stock
and we uh at Sanctuary was at that time in
two thousand to the largest independent record label. Rock was

(01:22:20):
their thing. They had all the major rocks. And we
formed the Urban Division and I was the president of it.
And we had the Urban Record Label, the largest urban
management company in the world. You know. Uh, we had
Nellie young men I made all these these kids were
all in their twenties. There the men, I shouldn't say kids. Uh,

(01:22:41):
these young men were all in their twenties and and
became millionaires. Uh. And when I look back and I
see that, you know can do Isaac's you know, we
brought him on board. He was at that time producing
for Mary j Uh. We brought in uh from Philadelphia,

(01:23:02):
Uh doctor doctor uh, God's basketball player. I just had
a mental Julius Irving the third Yeah, they had Floortree
and they had Eve. I brought those guys on and

(01:23:22):
Troy Carter, who was my number one draft pick when
I tell you this absolutely And just the other day
I heard on one of the social media platforms he
talked about it. Uh, where Troy was my number one
the first person I brought on board. I didn't know

(01:23:44):
uh Jay Orban at that time, but I had really
followed this kid with even and he had a rapper.
They had a rapper also, I can't remember his name,
but journalists yes when he was. And then I brought

(01:24:05):
in the management for D twelve and so this is
what I management roster was. Now you understand when they
had the MTV tour and Destinu's child, Nellie and Eve
was on it. Now you understand why. Now you understand
Kelly and Kelly and Nelly, well I was. I was

(01:24:27):
just about to say, now you understand that just wasn't
happened stance. That was because they were part of music World,
I mean Sanctuary Music World, Sanctuary Urban Management. Uh. And
then on the record label side, we I signed Earth
WINNI fire. I say, you did the Illumination record right,
Illumination ray J's biggest hit one wish. Uh. You know,

(01:24:53):
I did a deal with with ray J and his
his mother. Uh we did the o J cooling the game.
I convinced Shaka Khan to go to London and do
a standards records with the London Symphony. Uh uh you
know we did a whole lot there. Now as the media,

(01:25:17):
on the record label side, they gave me the black
eye because Sanctuary ended up going downhill. Obviously they always
look for who's going to be the scapegoat. But on
the record label, on the management side, we made plenty
of money. On the record label side, you know, it
takes time to recoup those you know, I spend money

(01:25:39):
with these artists. I believe in spending money with my artists,
and it takes a minute to recoup those investments. But
it was a great, great time, wonderful time that I
had got a little too a little too. Like we
talked earlier, Quest Love had too much going on at

(01:26:00):
the time. Uh And and during this period is where
I began to unravel, when the stress came with all
the travel because I had an office on Sunset Boulevard.
I had an office in New New York. I had
two offices in New York. I had an office of
Sony Medicine. I had an office downtown in New York.

(01:26:25):
Corporate office was in London. I was in London, damn
near every other week. We had an office my fift
oh five Hatley, which is where Hatley Street dreams, because
that's where we own the whole block with records, labels, studios, rehearsal.
You were there? How did you know I was there?

(01:26:46):
I was about to say this compound. I went there
for some reason. I forget why I went down there.
And it wasn't even to work with your daughters. But yeah,
it was something we did with one of you know,
we used to rent out two different video memories. Good,
that's right, because when you were saying that, I was like,
wait a minute, did not visit music it was it

(01:27:07):
was one of those power drinks. Yes, that was touristic
like to see that was that was important for me
to also see the development. Like when I went inside
Music World, I was really impressed because the only other
Oh god, okay, I'm like, I'm alright. The Prince basis

(01:27:31):
about to come down on me for this statement. I mean,
the last time I went to something as close to
that was Paisley Park. And during that time period, you know,
it wasn't that well kept in you know, it was
basically just by that point just his vanity studio. Like
it was far from the utopian Yeah. Yeah, it was

(01:27:52):
far from the utopian vision that I think that he
envisioned where it was like a full scale video and
in a Latino video like a spot in a club
and all those things. But like to see it in
real time, like in in full operation, I was very
I was really impressed with how that that operation was

(01:28:13):
what was running down there. Yeah. And then we had, uh,
you know, we had not only we had the we
built the largest gospel label only Sony. Sony beat us
out one year by like a tenth percent uh and
market share. You know. We did a partnership with b

(01:28:34):
Et Sunday bess Leandrewa Johnson Grammy Award winner number one
Female Gospel UH Trinity five seven, six, six records on
them ums of Bill arm Soft I'm strong, Um, I
can go on and on. We had a real burgering

(01:28:56):
gospel label. Um. Most people don't know this stuff, you know,
they just they just know I'm being on stage. I was,
That's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing
at all. But but I you know, at one point
we had a hundred and forty employees. At one point
my overhead was three hundred thousand dollars a month. And

(01:29:23):
as you know, quest Love, Uh, you know, I'm very
proud as a black man we owned a city block.
Let me change that when I say, when I say we,
people think Beyonce and Slide, I fucking own a city
block in downtown of Houston. Yes, and the land that

(01:29:46):
it sits on too. How right? People don't understand about
that land from Alabama owning his land in the coorta. Uh.
I'll ask how hard or how easy was it for
you to let Beyonce, in the last stages of her

(01:30:11):
caterpillar period, blossom into a butterfly and basically go handle
her business owner own? Well, I think it was the
same for Beyonce, so Lunge and and even some other artists.
Um well, I always how hard was it to not
walk away but to let your artists fly? Yeah? I

(01:30:33):
always say we we forget that most artists, I worked with,
Uh not most. I would say half of them were teenagers.
You know, how you manage a fifteen year old in
the business is different than how you manage her thirty
five year old or thirty year old in the business.

(01:30:57):
As you know, I always say this, we don't in
the industry left fifteen year olds make million dollar decisions
at all on the business side. So so so I
managed them differently. But my kids got to see the
mother on the business, their dad on the business, uh

(01:31:19):
be in corporate America. They got to grow as they
got older, and I hope and I've seen them say
it now on I'm very proud. Even Beyonce is on
the cover of magazine. She just just recently said that
it was me that instilled in her to to be
a writer, to be a producer, not just to be

(01:31:41):
a singer artist, but to be an entertainer. Um. But
to watch them grow and as they got older, they
got more information. When they were younger, wanted them to
focus on their artistry, not on the music business, because
the music business it's most of this stuff and if

(01:32:02):
you're trying to do both at eighteen, nineteen twenty two,
it's gonna fail. It's just too much at the level
of success that they had. That's why we had a
hundred and fifty employees. How is one person who understand marketing,
understand the international marketplace, understand all the financial and no

(01:32:26):
one artists at seventeen eighteen years old can do that.
So it's ludicrous when people say that, well, he was controlling.
That's what you do when you manage teenagers. You control
their business and as they get older, they get involved
as they understand it. That's why I teach this in class.

(01:32:49):
You know, I have a in my classes. I've been
doing this, uh in a classroom for fifteen years. There's
a hundred and ninety three definitions starting with a n
R are going all the way through. Like a lot
of people, ninety percent of all the people in the
industry don't know it. It's a lot to know on

(01:33:10):
the business side. So when they said when they kind
of went and when when Beyonce Slange gotten to that
point where they wanted to control their careers or have
more of a say, or however you look at it,
you just saw that as like a natural progression, like
you kind of anticipated that coming. It was a combination.
It was a combination of that. And it was also,

(01:33:30):
as I spoke candidly earlier, Uh, there was a period
in those mid two thousand that I unraveled as a father,
as a husband, uh, and that impacted it. You know,
when you when your father and you have daughters, they
look at you way more than just as their manager.

(01:33:51):
That's why I felt so full of circle. I feel
like at a certain part of their careers, I think
Beyonce with Lemonade and the songs and Solange with Crane
means it felt like such a full circle moment for
your family. Just as a person who don't know y'all
but just kind of been watching the long way. But
it felt like amazing, Like you said that moment if
you be in the studio with Miss Tina and just

(01:34:11):
hearing your words and hearing your story and them now
embracing those stories as a part of their art form,
it just felt like such a full circle like moment, Mike.
And and you know, I always say that when we
make mistakes, uh, we have failures, it's an opportunity to grow,
not a reason to quit. And and most of us, uh,

(01:34:34):
we first don't face up in the knowledge that we
made a mistake. Uh. That's the only way we grow
is first of all saying hey, I funked up, uh,
and then go get help and grow from it. And
I'm fortunately I'm you know and my eighth year uh
married to an amazing woman that has impacted my life, Gina.

(01:34:57):
I would marry a Tina and a Gina. I sometimes
get I sometimes get confused, you know, like my former wife.
So I don't have to even say the name. But

(01:35:18):
Tina and I are really friends. Uh. She's an amazing
woman and uh I will always honor her. I never
use that word X because I think that diminishes and
as a negative. Uh, and out of respect, I don't
use that word. Just say my former wife. And Jinna

(01:35:39):
Jenna was Vanessa Williams assistant uh and international road manager
for ten years. Uh, my former real model. UH. So
she has experience and entertainment and our co key is
we don't talk business unless unless I need uh sounding board.

(01:36:01):
But we don't talk business. And that can really devastate
a family when you you can be talking about dinner
and that becomes yeah, but what about this song? What
if we did that? That's what I was asking earlier.
I'm like Yo, how do you draw that line? Because
it's so I know some people that can work with yo.

(01:36:25):
I just working with family like Yo, that is so
oh my god, that's such a yeah, and and that
that became a real challenge and our our family dynamics
is separating. But two, when are your dad? And when
are you a manager? And especially it's easy with all

(01:36:48):
my other artists because I was their manager, or actually
I was, most people think I was the manager. I
did more record label stuff to management. But with your
with Destiny's Charlodd was difficult because I have a fiduciatory
fiducia every duty to all four of the ladies or
three of the ladies. And actually Beyonce actually probably got

(01:37:13):
hurt more than anybody because I was tougher on her
than the others. I appreciate you this evolution. You can
tell when somebody's lying. Man, I'm just giving you truth. Yeah.
It sounds so easy, but it's not easy for everybody. Yeah. Hey,

(01:37:39):
Dr knows Um, can you talk about your your battle
with cancer and how you've handled it and you know,
to be honest with you, It's it's very rare that
I hear men speak of breast cancer. I didn't even kind.
I didn't know that was a thing. M h um.
Can you and I most of us didn't even know

(01:38:01):
that you were going through this. Can you walk us
through the process of your discovery of it? And how Yeah?
I love to I love to you know. Oddly enough,
when I was the number one sales up as Zero's
medical system, oddly enough, what I sold was zero radiography,
which in the eighties was a leading modality for breast

(01:38:21):
cancer detection. Go figure. Wow uh. And even back in
the eighties we realized and talked about um men and
breast cancer. I'm really about messaging. So I chose not
to message as male breast cancer but male test cancer.

(01:38:46):
And I've gotten support but from the medical communities and
and every man that I've talked to, because a lot
of the stigma and it brings the embarrassment for men
to use that word breast and also in respect to women,
because it's three four guys now and one woman. None

(01:39:09):
of us would be other guys would think hardly twice
to take our shirt off. A woman is not gonna
do that. That's a special sanctuary place for a woman.
So I choose to say male chest cancer, and a
lot of that stigma. In a way I make it
really come home is for women, if you were going

(01:39:32):
to have to open a door that said male prostate exam,
I think you'd be quite embarrassed. And and for men,
when we have to open the door that says female
breast center, a women's breast center, that's quite embarrassing. That's
not something you feel good about. So first of all,

(01:39:54):
I like to just really on the messaging of how
we we say yea. The second thing for me, I
knew because I I sold the equipment and I had
uh I used to wear. I still do white T
shirts a lot under my shirts, and I noticed one

(01:40:15):
day a dot. So imagine you had a white sheet
of paper and you had a dit. I didn't think anything.
I actually thought, my wife A bought some new T
shirts and maybe it's just a manufacturing malfunction. The next
day I noticed five or six dots. Then I the
next day I said to my wife, I was like, huh,

(01:40:37):
did you buy some new T shirts? I see these
little red dots, And she was like, that's interesting because
when I cleaned your sheets today there was a bunch
of red dots of blood on your side of the bed. Again,
just imagine several dots like on a white sheet of paper. Well,
through my training of selling zero radiography, that is a

(01:41:01):
very common sign for men. And and so I knew that.
And when immediately got a man Graham then got a
biopsy and then literally a week later had surgery. That's
not the end of the story, that's just the beginning.
During surgery. Uh, and there was a delay. We should

(01:41:24):
have done this before, but we didn't. I won't get
into that. But when we did the pathology, it turned
out that genetically, which is where medicine is going, that
I had a genetic malfunction. And because of that genetic
malfunction UH called braca to mutation, it means that for

(01:41:50):
men that we have a higher risk of prostate cancer,
mal chest cancer, cancer uh pancer readdic cancer, and melanoma
from a genetic standpoint. And so a lot of men
are walking around thinking prostate when the real cost of it,

(01:42:13):
real cause of it rather is because they have mal
chest cancer. And we're finding this out. Uh. And and
I'm part of research at the University of Pennsylvania. Actually
I've come been there. Uh, that's where I'm part of
the research there. This is my second year of recovery.

(01:42:37):
I always say today I'm cancer free. But it also
meant a lifestyle change. And I get really excited quest
love when I hear you talk about weight loss. Uh
it's a sensitive subject in the black community. My dad
was obese. I've been obesed um myself. I was up
to two. I'm now to thirty five. My goal is

(01:43:01):
to get to to thirty, which is easy. That you know,
should be something that I can obtain. It meant also
that lifestyle change. Stopping uh, drinking alcohol. It also meant
in that life because of the sugar and because also
just the effect of being crazy on alcohol. Us you're

(01:43:23):
a big drinker. Was that Was that a thing for you?
A big drinker? I wouldn't say a big but but
when I did drink, I drank. You know what I mean? Uh,
it meant it meant changing my diet. I don't seldom
I eat meat, and when I do is only chicken
a fish this week, Uh, most weeks is many vegetables.

(01:43:50):
So I changed my eating habits. I exercise. I just
got a knee replacement four and a half months ago,
which is doing really good. Uh, just my basketball days.
But I was up to jigging two miles a day. Uh,
and I'm getting there. I'm on the bike, five miles
on the bike. Uh. Only if it's the b I

(01:44:13):
s A version, you know, you know, the one way
I'm The one thing I brought to the music industry
was branding and endorsement, which the industry was selling records.
I was selling a brand which is totally different. But
to get back, so admit the lifestyle change for me,

(01:44:34):
and and I've accepted that. I've seen the results. Every
six months, i've been getting a mammogram m R. I
I sold them more painful for you. Dr knows because
I was wondering for men and a mammogram. I'm gonna
just have a truthful moment. I'm having my first one.
I'm having my first one this year, and my biggest

(01:44:55):
fear is just how painful I've heard that it is,
but especially maybe if you don't have a lot a
tissue up there. So I imagine that. Well, I put
things in perspective. Uh, if I can save my life
because of two two minutes of fucking pain and get tested,

(01:45:20):
I just don't want it. It ain't gonna bust. It's
not gonna bust like minutes each one. I mean at most,
but it's based on the different angles. Overall, it to

(01:45:41):
be about twenty minutes. But that's about it. But we
put it in perspective. It's just the rewards and early
detection and and this is for men and women. As
medicine is changing. Um, we'll understand. I say we. I'm
not a medical doctor. Uh, I just say we, as
a cancer survivor, are understanding family history. You know, Black people,

(01:46:08):
we don't pay attention to our family history. It's right
there in front of you. If you just take a
moment to ask what the mama and them and uncle
them and grandma and them died of, you might see
you might see a common thread. Sugar Steve, how you
doing in your your journey. There's a reason we call

(01:46:31):
him sugar Stein. Oh yeah, um yeah, everything as long
as you manage stuff, you know you can. It's something
you can live with. I got the diabetes doctor, Well,
well you understand weight loss and diet. You you understand that. Exercise? Yeah,

(01:46:52):
trying trying to be good. No, we don't try, ship,
sugar ste We don't talk. We don't use trying our vocabulary.
We fucking do do or do not? There is no try. Yes,
your daughters can? Can I get adopted in this family?
Like I always thank you. I I can't begin to

(01:47:18):
tell you how grateful I was to see that time
when you to all the people in the world, you
say to ten people you would like to have dinner with,
and you said me, I was like, what what why?
You just the back stories? Basically I did this thing
and um oh when I did uh when I when

(01:47:40):
I did my my my food book, uh pople up
mixtape and New York Times asked me to name I'm
known up here for my my dinner parties and uh
so they asked me, you know who who that I
think would make an interesting uh dinner guest. And you know,
at the time when salons really really sold us on you,

(01:48:04):
it was doing that period. Um and then I just
really went down a rabbit hole of like all of
your interviews, and I was just like, yo, like he
really he has a story to tell that I really
wasn't expecting because I think men in your position, like we,
we've been sold all of our lives. We've been sold
the hustler. You know, what I mean the hustler that

(01:48:27):
you know, even even the hustler like when's the game
and that sort of thing. But we we haven't been
sold like the strategists visionary or yeah, that sort of thing.
And and that's why supremacy because black people can't vision that.
They can't do that, right, That's that's that's the media.
You know, that's the jedile Man trick. That's you know,

(01:48:48):
behind the decision making of TV. And and you know
it's typically a white person. Uh you know, I just
uh this summer. This is my second summer going to
Harvard and taking professional development and so I took this
summer Cultural Intelligence um, which really increased my awareness of

(01:49:12):
how culturally different that we are. And these are classes
that you're taking that I that I I took Ethical
Leadership last summer um. You know, you get to know me.
I'm not the guy that they picture at all. I
I see, I played the media like they play us. Okay, okay,

(01:49:37):
talk about it. I won't get into that one. But
but you know, they want to always paint a picture
of who we are and and success that it can't
be because as you said, that we're strategists or that

(01:49:59):
we're smart. It has to be or we had a vision.
It has to be with Swangali. You know, we've got
to always be that, you know. And that was always
black radio. My my challenge, the Black radio and when
they used to have like an entertainer segment and and

(01:50:20):
it would always be negativity on black artists. That look, guys,
we need you to do the reverse. But unfortunately, how
social media has impacted our young people, uh, negativity and
the Jedi mind trick is how they played every day.

(01:50:40):
You know, I've said in meetings, young people have no
idea how. And when we learned through the last election Russia, uh,
we found who did they go to? Black people on
social media? You know, we get played on the social
media stuff. It's not news anymore, it's it's social conversation.

(01:51:02):
I gotta know, I mean really like, you know, I
haven't I haven't had goosebumps moments like this from someone
talking since like my mom used to religiously like watch
less brown, talk less brown. Yeah, like less, I like
less a lot. Yeah, and I know it my well, yeah,

(01:51:26):
I do know that you've done ted talks and you
teach it universities and whatnot. But I mean, have you
really considered like motivational speaking. I do a lot of that.
Where can we see you? Because yeah, even talk my
ted talk is a motivational is on the DNA of
achievers there and what what is that? I mean I talked.

(01:51:52):
I do a lot of motivational stuff, uh on even
an entrepreneurship, you know, and and motivating our people and
understanding the who, the what, the why, who is the customer,
what is the product? And why does somebody should buy it?
And motivating them to understanding that process. Uh. You know,

(01:52:12):
we've been guy. So we go back to the culture
of black people and slavery and how it still impacts
us in a negative way. You know, policing came about
through slavery. If you go back, you see an eighteen
hundreds just post slaveries, BAM police policing started, you know,

(01:52:33):
with this whole thing. A colorism started in slavery when
it got off the ship that was babies that came
out looking like it's just such a cultural conditioning that
we have to overcome as black people. Cultural conditioning. People
speaking on that colorism too, because I know that you

(01:52:55):
the media even try to speak on that, but it's
the things that we need to talk about, and it's uncomfortable.
We don't we don't grow without being uncomfortable. My job
in life is to make people uncomfortable. And I had
fun with Charlotte Magne. I kicked his ass, spanked his ass,

(01:53:17):
actually just spanked his ass all over the room. Uh.
Charlet Magne episode was because it was the moment, the
moment where it went left, like the moment missing I'm
telling you, moment, you know the recap, so like Charlemagne
is doing and it was a piece of Charlemagne. Here Carolina,
he's South Carolina, but all of that, you know what

(01:53:39):
I'm saying. So it's all whatever. But listen though, now,
so they're going for whatever and Charlemagne is kind of
trying to get at it. So Mr Nos just stops
and he's like, you're really sad? Why are you so sad?
And yo, the look on Charlemagne face. He was like,
oh ship, I wouldn't expect it like it was. So

(01:53:59):
it was the old guy. It was so fucking brilliant.
I was like, yeah, he was left and left and
left and right. Yeah. And I asked him, I said,
you know, Charlemagne, this mama, what feelings are coming up
for you? That's a black man in therapy, so he
already know and that's the black man are And we

(01:54:23):
continue to talk, and I said, Charlemagne, you're all that
short bus brother. Oh and by the way, you got
too much fucking makeup on ladies and gentleman, this is
come come to your dadd out of the paint. I

(01:54:48):
was like, okay, so are we talking about it? So
being that you, you know, you manage your daughters, you
were over their careers. You know you're they're gonna write
songs that are personal and you know, may talk about
family stuff and all that. How what was your response
to Eliminating hearing that record? What was your thought on it? Well,
I think everybody should occasionally have a glass of lemonade

(01:55:09):
and have a seat and have a seat at the table,
always marking it's about the brand. It's about the brand. Okay,
I ain't got no eliminated. I got me some you
should have a seat at the table there. Thank you,

(01:55:30):
This this has been fun. You just got me. I
really was, unapologetically you know what it was going to
take all this appreciation and it represents at least a
million Black folks have been appreciating you, like for real,
like that, and I thank you for acknowledging that your
rigorous honesty, your your your messaging. You know we should,

(01:55:54):
we should, you know, happiness and enjoy should be just
the work you've done on yourself. Man, the work. Yes,
I'm really this was not the phone call the conversation
that I nevel right here here. I'm just thank you.

(01:56:18):
This was me watching this episode. I don't even feel
like the same happen when you know, when you interview
with me, I got to listen to your journey and
it was similar because you shared your journey. And I
think the more we share our journeys with people and

(01:56:38):
let them know the challenges that we have to overcome,
that we're no different than anybody else, no better, none
of that. Uh. We wake up in the morning and
we go to bed at night hoping for another day.
And the beauty about that is I like to always leave. Uh.

(01:57:00):
You know, I traveled, as you know, a lot, and
I was in l a back into two thousand's and
I was going down to Escalator at l a X
and there was a nun from Mexico who gave had
a jar that said, please give to the missionary. And
I learned not to be judgmental. I give when people

(01:57:20):
ask uh. And she gave me a card and and
literally because I used to have. You know, you can
imagine in the heyday how many business cards and c
these people were giving me. And I finally looked at
that car. It might have been a month later. And
that's what I like to leave you with. It said,

(01:57:40):
Pray not for a life free from trouble, Pray for
triumph over trouble. For what you and I call adversity,
the universe God a lot whatever name calls opportunity. For

(01:58:01):
what you and I call adversity the universe God Allah
calls opportunity. We pray too much that bad ship ain't
gonna happen. It is. Look when it happened, what is
the opportunity. When I came with mal chest cancer, it
gave me the opportunity to share that with other people,

(01:58:25):
hopefully save some lives just by being honest about it
and open and for everybody. When bad stuff happened, look
at it as an opportunity rather than a man bad
ship happened. This of those how do you in the
artists that you work with when you're working with younger guys.
Because I'm just sitting there listening to this conversation now,
and I mean I'm forty two now, so now a

(01:58:47):
lot of this ship is resonating with me. But had
I heard it at twenty two, it, you know, maybe
not so much so with all just the experience and
knowledge and game that you have when you're working with
younger artists, how do you make that knowledge palatable to them? Well,
you know, I don't know. I'm done with that side.
With that, I'm quickly eager excited to say I'm done.

(01:59:09):
On the music side, I do have three or four
film and TV projects that we're working on. Um. You know,
when I was in the business, it used to really
surprise the artists. They come to music World and ready
to sing, rap, have their band, and I wouldn't do that.
I would want them to sit down on the sofa
in my office and I wanted to talk to them.

(01:59:32):
I wanted to get to know and understand is this
really truly your passion or a hobby? And for most people,
it's hobbies. And that's what I always look for. If
they were passionate, if they were passionate then it I
could work with that. But most people really aren't passionate

(01:59:56):
because they don't know what they're passionate. They don't under
stand when you live this thing called passion that you
never work a day in your life. They don't know
what co exists with passion is work ethics. You find
somebody that passionate, they work their butts off because they
love it. And when even quest love, when you're saying

(02:00:17):
it earlier about all the things you were doing, I
was asking it, But was he passionate about that? Because
if you were it what worked to you? It was fun?
And and and I see my girls and Beyonce and Salons,
and they work hard, but they actually love to the core.

(02:00:38):
What they do to the core what a blessing through
your journey. That's what your babies can do. That's what
a blessing. YO. Just thank you, Dr Normals. I appreciate it. Um.
I gotta wrest this episode up man, just now. This
is a service. I say this a lot. I'm definitely

(02:00:59):
sticking to it. This is in my top five episodes
of this five year. I don't know, maybe since the
day I don't know the moon. Whatever I needed, I
thank you I needed to hear this today for real.
This is necessary. I'm gonna call my mom and my
girlfriend right now. Stop. See he's not gonna cry on

(02:01:20):
on the air. He's gonna cry in the car. He's
gonna try to call and Sugar Steven find Ticolo and
when you come this way, we gotta get together. And
if I come your way, let's promise we go. Let's
promise we're gonna have a meal. Yes, I will contact

(02:01:43):
you through like I promise. I really needed this conversation.
Thank you very much. Dr knows this is quest love.
We will see. I don't even think we need to
do no more episodes like this might have been it.
No no, no series. Finally Supreme starting got to know,
yes exactly all right, Thank you guys. We'll see you

(02:02:04):
on the next ground. Thank yo. What's up? This is Sponte.
Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at
QLs and let us know what you think and who
should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget
to subscribe to our podcast, all right, m M. What's Love?

(02:02:30):
Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. For more
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Laiya St. Clair

Questlove

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