Ed Eckstine

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. All right,
let me know when you guys are done, write your verses.
Writing just off the top. For me, the best part

(00:23):
of the show is the pre rold panic of the theme.
It's a little I'll point to you when it's your turn.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
See, I know everything you say about to say.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
No, it's just that's that frequency is a little daring, right, Yeah,
I do it as pressure.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Let's go mm hm. When three people are done, is
had three four head time. Let's go kids, Let's go Dad.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Suprema so Supremo role called Supremo Supremo roll.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
As I sit here, yeah, singing in this gym. Yeah,
I remember a time the roots were almost on PolyGram.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
So Suprema roll called Supremo so so Supremo role.

Speaker 5 (01:22):
My name is Fante.

Speaker 6 (01:24):
Yeah, and I'm not alone because I'm with my peoples
in the comfort zone.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Supremo roll call Suprema Supremo role.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
My name is Sugar.

Speaker 7 (01:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
I like this setting. Yeah, but it's not as nice
yeah as Klie's wedding.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
Supremo So Supremo roll.

Speaker 8 (01:54):
I'm unpaid bill, Yeah, I can't complain. Yeah, it's time
for stories about purple ring.

Speaker 7 (02:01):
Whoa call.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Supremo roll call Supremo Supremo roll.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Like year, Yeah, exes here so much to say. Yeah,
won't get in the rear.

Speaker 6 (02:17):
I didn't sup.

Speaker 7 (02:27):
Last name, first name is. How'd y'all get me? Yeah,
come out of bed?

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Supremo roll call Supremo Supremo. Roll call Supremo Supremo, Roll
call Supremo.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Supremo roll call. Wow, that was interesting choice of versus
you guys. We did good did Yeah? It was that
was rather amazing.

Speaker 6 (03:02):
Yeah, man, shout out dj Khalil for making this happen, man,
big shots.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
DJKJ made this happen.

Speaker 7 (03:08):
Okay, shots, that's FM.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh yeah, man, Okay, we are still live in Los Angeles.
How is it going kids?

Speaker 7 (03:17):
Great is always dead?

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Okay? What was the highlight of your night?

Speaker 8 (03:23):
So nope, you can only tell a great story one
time from watching you.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah. Wait a minute. That was a national commercial. Yeah
oh yeah. They kind of presented in a local ways.
I thought it was just a Tri state area.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
It's like, don't be a dragon lady. Wait, what's that
non smoking? Don't be a dragon lady?

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Come on, that's a local Joe.

Speaker 5 (03:47):
We didn't have that one smoking.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Okay, okay, see I thought I thought that was just
a Philly New York that was everywhere. That one in
the in the Friday Eggs, that one all right. So
of course if you're not familiar, this is Quest Love Supreme,
the award winning Quest Love Supreme. We won so many
awards before. I don't know the other words that we

(04:10):
just all love.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
We swept at the Schmuckies this year.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
I see, how's it going on? Tigelow Ah going, good Man,
I'm making it. I guess by the time this comes
on the festival.

Speaker 6 (04:23):
And Darren, I think hopefully to be over it by
the time this ship come out.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
But nahunked over seventh. We did it and it was great.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Nice Steve jazz World, how's he treating you?

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Everything's good. We got the album you did with David
Murray that's available now. It's streaming and you know people
are gonna vote for it for the Grammys and everything.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
You know. I was just I was just having a
conversation with a recent Quest Love Supreme guest on the show,
and he suggested, hey, well we do a project together
so that in Hath Newman, yes her like not too long.
Faith Newman yes, at the NS birthday party, got down.

(05:12):
Yeah yeah, Pano wants to make something happen Cappin. Yeah,
oh yeah, speaking of making it happen, Cavin, when we're
we supposed to make something happen with Bob James.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah yeah, that got pushed ponned. Sorry, okay, but I love.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
A Quest Love Supreme collaboration a lot throughout the years.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
What's making happen?

Speaker 5 (05:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (05:27):
All right, doctor Sesame Street.

Speaker 8 (05:29):
I listened to the David Murray Quest Love record and
it is awesome.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
It's crazy, it's really good. I'm still discovering stuff. There's
a lot of samples on its really you just isolate,
very angry. That could be like the next twelve roots
albums right there. Yeah, it's incorrect. Four platters, Yes, it's
called plumb. What was your logic? I wanted to call
it three Pleadians walk into a Bar, but of course
you did. We did include that, right. One was called

(05:55):
I got the name one song, but you know it's Steve.
So what's our next project called peach? Okay? And what
would that be?

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Hopefully Belile you Ray and Doyle Bramhall.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
I like that. I like that, Okay, I'm with that.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh and Elaina Pinder hughes on flute.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay, like a quintet. That's what's up? Okay, Peach, I
got it. How's how's life?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Man?

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Listen? It's good also for really like putting in the
hard work and organizing these Uh. She's sort of our
person that targets the guests that come on the show.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Booker out of the.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Booker that level. I just feel like, I feel like
you run this ship.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
That's nice me yes me okay.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Flowers, yeahs.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
You know we love you.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Take this love. Thank you anyway, ladies and gentlemen. I
will say that after are awesome Lisa Cortez episode of
Quest Love Supreme in which we kind of went through
the story of the close Butano Cigar outcome of where
the roots were going to land as far as their
major label was concerned. If you don't remember, we have been,

(07:15):
you know, spending all of nineteen ninety three, thirty years ago,
having showcases and whatnot. The very first label that we
wanted to sign to, of course, Mercury PolyGram, and we
were really excited. They took us out to dinner. We
went to like a Black Sheep Legion video set. It
was all exciting, and then because of a technicality, we

(07:36):
wound up on another label. So I kinda see this
as like an alternative universe. Yeah, yeah, like that movie
Other Earth. This is an alternative universe in which I
am talking to the former president of the label that
I never got to sign to. But not that I

(07:57):
mean as former president of Mercury, Hollo Graham. But he's
also been a senior executive and also a producer, executive
producer and a music producer for a lot of the
music that we have grown up listening to still currently
listen to. Name it, Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones, bon Jovi, Kiss,

(08:17):
Whitney Houston, Quinny g Brian McKnight, Tony Tony Tony very
happy about that reunion. By the way, did you see
the North Carolina show? No?

Speaker 5 (08:26):
I didn't see that.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Oh wait, I thought their first they did a test
show in North Carolina.

Speaker 6 (08:33):
I know there was in October first, which today is not.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Oh, I get it, but you don't know that in
September they did a secret show in North Carolina, Right,
yeah they did. But the only thing about like towards
when they start, if you don't see the first three shows,
is all but guarantee that they're going to shop the
songs in half once they find a rhythm. Yeah yeah,
So I saw the set list of what their show

(08:59):
was and it's way past the roots in ll It's
like it's damn near three hours, like it's a.

Speaker 7 (09:06):
Well.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
They start with all the classic filler. Then they go
into Raphael's songs that he wrote for other people. Oh ship,
because so he's doing cozy, He's doing what covied Covin
and cozy.

Speaker 9 (09:22):
I'm sorry as a as a word player, getting my
sea words mixed these things. Beyonce thing, well, she's she's
too omni president Like Beyonce is like.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
A air and water. It's like hard to resist. And
then they go into the solo stuff and then they
end with the hits. So but of course, you know,
management stuff's like, uh, can y'all just turn this into
a two hour sho because your audience is like whatever?
But anyway, so much with the Tony's Yes, our guest today,
I pray has a lot of stories about his journey

(09:57):
in this music business that we love. Please welcome to
usself Supreme, the one and only Ed Eckstein. Thank you,
thank you.

Speaker 7 (10:04):
Thank you pleasure to be here.

Speaker 5 (10:07):
Thank you for being here.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Man, it's a long clap. We got away for forty
seconds clapping. How much for that?

Speaker 2 (10:16):
I guess that. Listen to the show too, How.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Are you to day? You listen to the show?

Speaker 7 (10:19):
Yeah? I do. I listened when I walk in the morning.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Wow, that roll call then shot right off the damn
we knew the jazz. Guys. Gotta I get the feeling
you've been telling you about, Like we got you out
of bed this morning. What what is your morning routine?
What do you do? I like to know what executives

(10:45):
and creatives do for the first half hour of the morning.
What's your morning routine?

Speaker 7 (10:49):
I get up, I do a meditation and a prayer,
and they go for a walk. I try to walk,
you know, close to ten thousand steps for really more
like five.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Right. Hey, I'm with you.

Speaker 7 (11:03):
And I come home, you know, have my breakfast, chill
with my wife and my son. Okay, you know, just
get on and get on the computer, you know, do
my thing.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
I was your son.

Speaker 7 (11:13):
He's twenty two, okay.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, And what's your method for meditation? You know we're
into that here. What's that about?

Speaker 7 (11:18):
Just close my eyes and you think about, you know,
what I can do to better my life and be
better for the for the world is collective that day,
you know. Just so Yeah, just positivity. Try to be
as positive as possible.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
You said something, and now now I want to get there.
Everyone reveal your steps right now? What's on your phone?
Your steps? Do you know how to look at your steps?

Speaker 7 (11:39):
I went to the Gyn's money. I'm gonna win.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Okay, what is it? You go first?

Speaker 8 (11:41):
Eight three hundred and six.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
I hate you right now? That's mine. I told you
on a good day. That's why I hope they get
to like me. Getting above five thousand is my goal
right now. I'm nine eighteen.

Speaker 8 (11:51):
That's not gonna that's I'm a lazy.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
That's like sometimes in my in my hotel, all the way,
I'll walk twice. Hope I get it up to one thousand.
What's your step, Steve?

Speaker 3 (12:05):
It says six in and out burgers, eighteen cigarettes.

Speaker 5 (12:11):
I'm at five hundred and forty four steps.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
I'm a twenty six seventy two.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, let's let's try to get it up to five thousand.
At least that will help us.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Okay, were you did you say? Yours?

Speaker 1 (12:23):
I sit nine hundred and eighteen, I slept late.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
And use we just gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
We just gonna do that. But you know, I'm supposed
to do at least ten thousand, you know, So, like
I know for you, and it's rare to meet executives.
Oftentimes I'll meet executives that are more about saving their
jobs and submitting their legacy, and they don't really seem
to be passionate about music or music fans. But I

(12:52):
definitely know that you are a passionate You love music
more than.

Speaker 7 (12:59):
Anything in the blood.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
It's almost weird to me. Do you do you find
that as well? Like that executives aren't are mostly there
to cross teas and dot ies and really not.

Speaker 7 (13:11):
Not all, but a significant portion. Yeah, during my period
when I was active in it, there was certainly there
were music guys in there. In the Wall Street takeover happened,
and it became, you know, sort of an element of
give me twelve pounds of music to go. You know,
nobody's really listening to it.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
You know, in my head, I kind of hold like
nineteen ninety seven as kind of the Mason Dixon line
of where hip hop, you know, suddenly realized it's it's
earning power, and then suddenly it became big business, right
as opposed to whatever me living in the delusional state

(13:51):
of Hey, people love music for music and it's an
artful and that sort of stuff.

Speaker 10 (13:55):
Good luck with that, right well, I know, right, But
for you on the executive side of things, was there
a glory period and then was there the Mason Dixon
line period of like what am I doing here?

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (14:13):
From the executive side, what got frustrating was in those
days it was still terrestrial radio largely. That was the
master that we had to honor. You know, there were
so many situations where there were acts that you loved etad.
You know, I'd love to try and go get after
this and break it, but you knew that radio wasn't
going to play it, and it was you had limited
resources of what you could spend to make things happen,

(14:34):
and so to a certain extent, I found myself in
the position of chasing things that you thought were somewhat safer.
But you know, not that my instincts may have gone
in one direction, but the realities of the marketplace, and
after all, I'm running a business, you know, is another.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
So all right, I need a five second moment of
reflection right now, because instantly I'm regretting the decision I made.
I'm literally sitting here like, wait a minute, if this
person was at the top of the pyramid, how would
of my life had turned out. I don't know if

(15:15):
this particular tortoise in the hair journey it is for
everybody and it's not. It was a long, hard thirty
years in getting here, and I'm glad I'm here. So yes,
I will say that I don't regret anything, but I
will say that of anyone that I had dealt with

(15:36):
in music, to even hear you speak on that level,
in my head, I'm already like, damn, where's that person
when I needed them in my career? Because we the
reason why I'm here is because we had to fit
for ourselves. People were just like, I don't know, figured
it out for yourself, So we had to figure it

(15:56):
out for ourselves. And so yeah, I'm having a moment
of Oh, I wonder what happened to have we chose well?

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Who knows ed you might he might have been a
different end in those days too.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, and then I'm gonna ask, were you the same
ad now that you were thirty years ago.

Speaker 7 (16:12):
Well in some ways yes, but no. But as far
as you guys were concerned, because I remember vividly Kenya
I bet you do. Ken YadA Bell was the an
R guy who was who was actually working for us,
who who first identified you guys was excited about. He
worked for Lisa Cortez, so he and Lisa came in
and said, we're really interested in this band. They said

(16:32):
the magic words banned to me because when I signed
the Tonys was at a period when there was a
lull in black bands, and I come up from that era,
and I always viewed the Tonys as the last of
the Mohicans on the R and B band level, but
of the hip hop generation. I remember vividly seeing them
play a performance at the Palladium one night in New York,

(16:53):
and they were killing that night on stage and the
audience was just dumbfounded, staring into space. And I was
there with the late great Gary Harris, who was working
for me at that time, and Gary and I say exactly,
and Gary and I are saying, I'm look at him, said, gee,
what's up man? How come nobody's reacting to him? They're
killing up her? He says, you got to understand some man.

(17:14):
He said, most of the kids in this audience have
never seen kids their own age playing a musical instrument.
I was like, wow, really, and so that that was
the reality of it. So when I heard about you guys,
you know, the combination of you know, Tarik and a band,
I said, this is interesting to me. I always remember
that the showcase was the coldest hell night in SI

(17:34):
studios myself half to death. I had a clause in
my contract in those days, because I'm from LA that
if it got to single digits in New York I
could I would turn around and go home. I mean,
and if I was walking through time times square, the
time and temperature, you know of the sign of the world,
if I looked up and there was you know, three
point fifty two eight degrees, I'd walk back to my office, say,

(17:56):
Chris booked me, I'm going home. And I think that
night was one of those nights, you know, at least
it got me to stick around to see the band. Thanks. Yeah,
it's cool.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Thanks brilliant though, that's brilliant.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, you know to put that in there, like that's
so interesting, Like did somebody else tell you once and
you know, and when you do a new contract.

Speaker 7 (18:13):
No, because i'd worked, I'd spent enough time back he's
because I went to high school back he's and I
was working for Arista when I was at Ariston and
I didn't have that. Clive wasn't playing that.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
I knew other name at x sign. Of course, when
you read credits, I saw your name on like Vanessa
Williams's projects and the Tony's and whatnot. But what was
the road that led to your president? Like how long
did it take from the moment you entered the mailroom
to presidency? How long was that?

Speaker 7 (18:47):
I started at PolyGram in nineteen eighty seven. Dick Asher
was the president of PolyGram in those days, and he
because PolyGram, just for a little inside baseball, was a
Dutch owned Phillips Dutch owned company based in based in Hilversom, Holland,
with a with a European base in London, headquarters in

(19:10):
New York, with satellite offices in Nashville and Los Angeles,
but the creative centers were largely London in New York,
so let's just extended Los Angeles. In those days, poly
Phonogram UK would sign acts exclusively for UK and America
wouldn't have the rights to the Dire Straits was one
of those bands. Metallica was a banned like that. They

(19:32):
weren't signed to PolyGram for the world. And so when
a guy called Dick Asher took over, who would run
a CBS role When when Dick took over PolyGram, part
of the edict was to sign things for the world.
So and they want up their presence as a West
Coast creative center. So there was a head of A
and R at PolyGram at the time. A guy called
Dick wynd Gate shout out to Dick Richards, Yeah and

(19:54):
uh so. Asher apparently had had a thing in his
mind of who he was going to hire for this
West Coast situation. But wing Gate and some of the
A and R guys in the New York office felt
he was going old, they want somebody younger.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
And I was going to ask you, is he well liked?
Who only know the name Dick Asher? Because if you're
a fan of liner notes, uh I believe on fear
of Black Planet, Public Enemy wrote and fuck Dick Asher.
We got Bill Stephanie watching our backs and I was like, well,
what does that mean? Dick was cool? Or he was

(20:29):
just an executive.

Speaker 7 (20:30):
Yeah, Dick was cool. It was great to me once again,
sidebar story that I was having a conversation with my
pops at one point after PolyGram had offered me the deal.
You made me an offer, made me my offer, and
I said, well, tell me, baby, tell me about the deal.
I told him ran the deal down to him. And
when he sat in digest its, damn, sounds like you
found old fashioned nigga lover. So those are kind of

(20:57):
hard to find these days.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Dick was great to me.

Speaker 7 (21:03):
Dick was absolutely wonderful, you know, and afford to be
a great opportunity there.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
I see. All right, So what where were you born?

Speaker 7 (21:10):
Born here in l A all right, Saint John's Hospital,
Santa Monica.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Do you remember your very first musical memory?

Speaker 7 (21:16):
I do?

Speaker 5 (21:17):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Being?

Speaker 7 (21:18):
My parents were having a party. We were living I
was born in Santa Monica. We were living in Hollywood.
My parents were having a party. I was apparently like
two or three years old. They were having a party
in the house, and a whole bunch of bird was there.
Billie Holiday and different people are at the crib, and uh,
this is all going on on the house.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
You know, wait, you were in this lifetime when Charlie Bird.

Speaker 7 (21:48):
Parker was was a life.

Speaker 9 (21:50):
Yeah, and you've seen or you've been in the presidence
of Billie Holliday once is basically, but the story is
even if you were too.

Speaker 7 (21:58):
My memory is because we had a two story house
and the second floor, I somehow crawled out of my
bed and there was you know, the second story and
the you know, the things that hold them, and I
was looking down at the party. My parents said they
looked up and they could feel a presence, and all
of a sudden they looked up and there was my
little face looking down at everybody.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
You know.

Speaker 7 (22:15):
I was attracted to the music and the noise and
the cacophony.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
And Billie Holliday. All right, I mean more stories of
your life, like give me a version of your childhood
in which you don't know that God's in the room
with you. Like, Oh, my parents once told me that
whatever I went to the school with Jackie Jackson. Well
that's a bad example. But you get.

Speaker 7 (22:40):
The best way I could answer that is just my
dad was an avid golfer because he was on the
road all the time, and when he'd come home from
the road, he played golf a lot. And one of
the things that was always fun was we'd come home
from school, you know, because in our house you had
like a little bar sort of speakeasy area where he
used to chill after he played golf, and he never
knew when we come home was going to be in

(23:00):
the crib with him. We played golf with that day,
had days where he'd come home and he was there
with Smokey or there with Marvin Gaye, or there with
Sean Connery.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
This is when he was on Motown, right.

Speaker 7 (23:10):
I know he signed in the mid sixties. Cool, but yeah,
this is this is mid sixties stuff. I'm like twelve
thirteen years old at that point. So just little things
like that. The other aspects of it, there were there
were moments because the whole Billy ecksteinness of it all
was he was just Pops. But you know the fact

(23:31):
that you know, people, my friend, my kid's parents reacted
more to him than you know, anything else, you know.
And one of things that Pop's always tried to do
to my brothers and I for my brothers and I
was demystify the business but also sort of put a
vibe on it to make us understand that although people
kind of went buck wild when when he was around,
that we had to realize that he was no better

(23:51):
or no worse than anybody else than the people across
the street who had you know, regular quote unquote regular jobs.
His just happened to be in lights and people got
excited about it. So that was really that was sort
of a God moment in its own way of just
you know that how life was. You know, Pops is
just you know, Pops. So many brothers and you have

(24:13):
there's seven of us.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Where do you fall?

Speaker 7 (24:16):
I fall in the middle. It's five boys, two girls,
two older three older brothers, two of whom are deceased now,
and then then me and then my little brother and
two younger sisters.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
Any of all those siblings they go into music anyway.

Speaker 7 (24:27):
Well, my brother guys a producer and a manager, and
and my youngest sister, our youngest sister, Gene is a singer.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
As as a child or as a teen. Would other
adults annoy you if they start singing to you like
Moody's mood or anything like that, your dad is really.

Speaker 7 (24:53):
Sort of get to us, was you know, collective because
he was on the road so much, you know, And
the only time we really talked to him was on
the road was on Sunday nights. You know, hear from him.
You know, Dad, I hit a home run on Tuesday
byh blah blah, you're that kind of shit. So when
he was home, there were very valuable, cherished moments. If
we went out to dinner as a family, invariably there's
somebody to come. Ah, mister b I saw you in Moleen,

(25:14):
Illinois in nineteen fifty one, you know, and we're trying
to talk to Pops. And you know, we were sort
of taught slash trained that, you know that the fans
are the lifeblood of you know, of us having the
ability to live the lives that we live. So just
kind of smile your way through it, you know, be polite,
be nice, and Pops would handle it from there. And
if you if they stayed a little too long to say,
hey baby, I'm trying to have dinner with my family here,

(25:35):
you know, and then if they stayed long, said get
the fuck out of here.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
You know, I was I was going to issue a
mandate like none of you do there, I go reference.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
So any what if you got us to do it,
then we'd do it where you'd want us to do
it so much deductive.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Did you have peers in that way though, is as
you were part of this kind of music musical family.
Did you have other kids that kind of felt the
pains that you were going to through because their parents
weren't one tour.

Speaker 7 (26:00):
And ish But we're I grew up in Sino, California,
So we're the only black family there till the Jackson.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
There are people, and the Jackson's got.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
There, Okay, So y'all were there first, right because he's
your dad.

Speaker 7 (26:14):
Yeah, and so any of the Sino at that point,
it's it still is. In the San Fernando Valley in
Cina was basically two lane dirt road with orange groves
and a lot of almond trees and shit, and then
somewhere in the late late fifties became a bit of
a go West young Man syndrome. A lot of folks
moving out to the hills there and a significant port

(26:35):
because with the expanse of the film and TV business
out here, and a lot of the folks that moved
to that part of the valley were business people, largely
Jewish from New York, from other parts of the country,
and certain parts of the city here were redlined that
you know, certain Jews and Blacks couldn't live in certain areas.
So the valley became the area of development, you know,
of of principal development, and the line of demarcation in

(26:58):
the San Fernanda Valley is in tro Boulevard. And a
lot of the kids I grew up with were, you know,
Mo Austin's kids, Eddie Rosenblatt kids, different shiz show biz kids,
you know, making movies of the selves as Steely Dan said, right,
and don't give a fuck about nobody else.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
So so they were your peers, but they really weren't
your pee.

Speaker 7 (27:16):
Yeah, there were peers, and since their parents weren't performers.
But you know, there were some my older brothers, like
my second and third my second oldest brother went to
high school with Sally Field and uh and cheer. So yeah,
she went to school. Had had a moment about this
was called fifteen years ago. It was during the the

(27:37):
Kobe shack Laker years. It was one of the playoffs
championship games. Sally Field happened to be standing in front
of me at that game and in the stand since
I tapped her on the shoulder and said, she said hello,
and said you went to high school with my brothers,
and she kind of looked gave me a quizzical look
of like, you know, to the sun Town. I was like,
wait a minute, no, none of you motherfuckers said right.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Right, Oh my god, you're kid.

Speaker 7 (27:59):
And Ron's brother.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Instantly new so well, actually, I asked, okay. I asked
the Jacksons the same question, but now that I know
that you were there first, First of all, were you
aware of the situation that you were placed in? I
asked them what is it to be? Because I, you know,

(28:25):
I always considered the Jacksons the first post civil rights result,
like all that that between you know, reconstruction, slavery and
civil rights, and then you get to this point post
sixty eight, where the idea of freedom or the idea
of pursuit of happiness whatever, and the Jacksons sort of

(28:47):
took that. And I asked him, like, what was it
like navigating in those first five years in Encino in
Los Angeles? You know, I've seen the photos. You guys
have roles, voices and fancy cars, see and roaster and
all that stuff. And Marlon was like yeah, and no,
routinely got stopped by cops and all and stuff. So

(29:08):
were you aware that was like proceed with caution or was.

Speaker 7 (29:13):
It like yeah, very aware, partially because how we were raised.
You know, my dad was very active in the civil
rights movement, and the conversation around the dinner table or
all meals actually was either showbiz or the civil rights
move because civil rights movement played out on TV every
night on Walter Cronkite and stuff like that, and Pops
was was close with Doctor King's close with Malcolm. So

(29:35):
as a result, we were very aware of who we
were and what was up, you know, my parents pretty much.
That was one of the things they hammered home to us.
You know, don't for one minute start thinking you're white
open here. You know, it's this is the reality of
your existence, you know.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Which you must have confused people a little bit visually
as well.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Well.

Speaker 7 (29:51):
And I realized that some of that too was you know,
because there's a certain amount of ethnic ambiguity, you know,
inherent to uh, to the suntan right and then you know,
and and the hair at the time and uh and
as a result, you know, there's but there was always
a kid every year in school they want stepped to
one of my brothers and nigger, you know, you pop
somebody in the face and then uh, and then you

(30:12):
get sent to the principal's office. And then they said, well,
we're gonna call your parents. And you didn't want my
mom coming down. You know, Mom was straight out of Georgia,
Thomas and Georgia. She wouldn't have it. So she was like,
you know, if they don't hit those people, if they
don't punch them, you know, when they get home, they's
go be their ass. That was that was that was
our reality. But yeah, the Jackson's period was was cool
because I that's when I first met them and John McClain.

(30:36):
During that period of time, I was.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
I was.

Speaker 7 (30:39):
I went to a boarding school in western Pennsylvania, a
place called the Kisski School outside of Pittsburgh. Actually, Jake,
your your producer, went to one of rival schools. So
I was at the school Pennsylvania and one of my
really close friends here was was screwing up in school

(30:59):
here and he got sent to a private school, private
day school here in town, which was where Motown sent
to Jackson's once they could no longer go to public
school here, a place called the Walton School. So when
I come home on vacations, our vacations were out of
sink with my friends vacations here. So ostensibly my days
would end up being spend either hanging out with my
mom because Pops was on the road, hanging out mom
going doing what mom was gonna do, or sit at

(31:21):
home and just listening to records all day, which I
did a fair share of that, and play my guitar.
But my buddy was like, Doude, once you come to
the come down to my school and hang out with us.
Jackson's are here, blah blah blah blah blah. All the
honeys are on the Jackson's hard And I was in
an all boys school, so I mean I'm in. So
I started going to show up to show up on
the campus. Yeah, we did, and play ball and we

(31:41):
played ball all day and that's where I met met
those guys. And Mike was Mike was little, you know,
chasing insects and rats around.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Right, sounds about right, It sounds about right. What was
your Do you remember the first album you ever purchased.

Speaker 7 (31:56):
First album I ever purchased was Meet the Beatles. First
single ever, which was My Girl.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Where's the family record collection?

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah? Where is the family record collection?

Speaker 7 (32:06):
I had? I sold my vinyl about fifteen years ago.
I had, you know, fifteen thousand pieces sold all.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Okay on behalf of on pay bill.

Speaker 7 (32:19):
Yeah, long story, long story, but yeah, I sold it
and then h mom and Dad's collection. I still have
a bunch of it, you know, but they had a
fair share, not a lot. Some of this guy sold.
I got a great story that we had a lady
who was a housekeeper for us in the late fifties
when Ray Charles was blown up with all the Atlantic records,

(32:40):
and Mom and pops loved those records, so they had
all the Ray Charles album you know, the early Ray
Charles records. They came home from tour at one point,
went to get to put their Ray Charles joints on.
They weren't there, and they're like, where's the records in
this one housekeeper, lady Gussie Gussie Gussie, you know, pinched
the records. So she she she left, and Mom and
Dad told us, look, all's forgiven, just bring the records back,

(33:02):
you know, you gotta have your job back. No, she
didn't want the job back. She kept the fucking records.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Of her family right.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Now, Now I got to check my collection. Yeah, so
Jesus Christ, when you sell a record collection, that means
you're really that music is in the rear view mirror. Well,
I ever, I just digitized everything.

Speaker 7 (33:25):
But yeah, I mean I.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Love you know, I need tangible proof, tactile thing I did.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Something in the end of Man is judged by his
record collection pretty much.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
People come in my house, That's the first thing they do.
They like, what are you listening to? That sort of thing,
and you know, look at stuff.

Speaker 7 (33:44):
Yeah. I was known for it because when I used
to go to go to Kiski schools called Kiski. When
I kis come up with the holidays, I always have
three or four foot lockers filled with vinyl, filled with records.
They took me so all the kids school do me
as a record guy?

Speaker 1 (33:57):
You know? Can I ask a little follow?

Speaker 7 (34:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Good question.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
So the first two records you bought, The Beatles and
My Girl? Yeah, how did those first to purchase shape
your taste in music and career?

Speaker 7 (34:09):
I was the Beatles on Ed Sullivan kid. You know,
when I saw the Beatles and Ed Sullivan, I was like,
I want to play guitar. I wanted to play drums first,
but moms wouldn't happen it, right, I ain't gonna have
all that noise over in my house, So so I
play guitar. And then I got a guitar, you know,
later that year for my birthday. Don't play well, but
I collect him pretty well. But my son actually is
this prolific player, prodigious player. And my girl was just

(34:32):
because I love the single, you know, the lick and
all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, And I always tell the story.
People say, what do you sing? You sing like your dad.
So I must have been like eleven, and I was
singing my girl in the show. My dad opened the
shower to stop singing. Boy closed the shower do and
walked away. Billy XI tells me not to sing. I'm

(34:53):
not going to sing.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
I was going to say, that's where the billy he
ain't really works the prince. So I would assume being
a young teenager in the late sixties early seventies, uh,
and being in the position that you're in, you've been
privy to many a concert experience. Can you give me

(35:17):
your top three concert going experiences as a kid.

Speaker 7 (35:21):
Yeah, well, kid, meaning under twenty one or just whenever.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
All right, well, give me your your what's the first
concert you went to? That's not your dad, but even then,
I'm certain that your dad's done festivals and stuff you've seen. Yeah,
all right, so you gotta include your dad.

Speaker 7 (35:36):
I want to see Marvin gay at what's now a
club called Cerroo's with my older brother when he was
when he was in college. I was like eight or
nine years old, pre beard Marvin Gaye, Yeah, when he
still still suits, you know, yeah, stubborn kind of fellow
mark early.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Was it just like man?

Speaker 7 (35:55):
Or did you it?

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Because I loved all that shit? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (35:57):
Okay, yeah, I loved all And there used to be
a theater out in the valley in Woodland Hills called
the Valley Music Theater. It was one of those theaters
in the round. Valley Music Theater used to do shows.
And this was before the rock and roll industrial complex,
as we've come to know it came to puish and
came to life. And in those days, all this baby
rock bands were out here making records, but there was

(36:19):
really they're having hits, but there was nowhere for them
to play. They weren't touring, so they would do a
lot of promotion shows for local pop station r KRLA,
and so Carol A did a show at the Valley
Music Theater of like the Doors, The Birds, The Buffalo, Springfield,
three other bands I'm not thinking of right now. I
remember cutting going out one night, you know, on my bike,

(36:39):
riding to the gig.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
My parents were work. My dad was on the road.

Speaker 7 (36:42):
Mom was with him going to that gig, and then
you know down the road, you know once a, you know,
professionally Stones nineteen seventy three at the Forum.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Oh se you saw a post exile show.

Speaker 7 (36:57):
Oh yeah, absolutely. When they did the tour with the
Lotus Flower that opened, you know, yeah opened like they
opened a honky talk woman and Mick was hanging off
the front front Pedes tour.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, it was great. Was Stevie opening for them?

Speaker 7 (37:09):
Maybe Stevie was with Ray Parker and Ali and the band.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah yeah, and uh Denise Williams do yep, exactly. She
She gave a lot of debaucherous stories about that.

Speaker 7 (37:22):
And then Bootsy Bootsy at the Forum nineteen seventy eight,
you know, post the year, yeah, post post the Pfunk
Earth tour, but just Bootsy play the thing, you know
with uh, you know, with Macio doing the the opening
High Bootsy, you know, you know, the place, the whole

(37:49):
forum was just shaken.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
It was amazing. So by the mid seventies or even
in the late sixties, are you trying to figure out
what your path or what your goal in life was like?
And I'm certain everyone asked you, like, and what do
you want to be when you grew Like, all right,

(38:11):
so when you were twelve, what did you want to
be when you grew up?

Speaker 7 (38:14):
I wanted to pitch for the Dodgers. I want to
be in the Black Sandy Kofax.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Oh okay, this was up. So when you were in
tenth grade fifteen sixteen, did that change?

Speaker 7 (38:27):
Yeah? I still wanted me Cofax, but I was mourned
to me. I was also into music at that point,
and in those days the Twain hadn't met yet. Where
you know, basically jocks were jocks, and you know, it
was very much sort of beer frat shit, you know,
whereas music was hipper, you know, and the girls were there.
And so I was like, yeah, I don't know, sports

(38:49):
things cool, but no, and then it's certain when I
got to college, it all sort of went up and
smoked what kind of smoke? Indo smoke.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yes, by the time you got out of high school,
Uh huh, would you say, then, that's when you saw
your path too. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (39:04):
I knew I pretty much wanted to pursue something in
the music business because right out of high school I
did not want to go to college. Immediately. I wanted
to take the you know, the bridge year as they
called them in those days. Okay, and my parents weren't
having that, you know, my parents were immediately what college
was this Boston University? Oh shit, okay, So my parents
weren't having it. You know, there was a striver thing

(39:25):
and all that stuff, and if you go to Europe
it means you're never coming back to college. Blah blah blah.
So my interest was music. You know, I figured, you,
I love my parents deally, but I want to get
as far away from them as possible, which is la.
I went to Boston, and Boston had a very thriving
music scene in those days. That's it still does, you know,
significant college population. So I just immersed myself in that.

(39:47):
It's kept me a live used to walk down the street.
Aerosmith was a local band. They're playing in front of
the student union. Jay gilesman Peter Wolf was still on
the radio in Boston. Giles band was playing.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
You got to witness these people when they were just upstarts.

Speaker 7 (40:00):
To see Aerosmith every freaking day, it seemed, playing on
Commonwealth Avenue in front of the BU student Union, you know,
doing the same stick that they did, you know, a
zillion years later and cut to nineteen seventy three, seventy four.
I'm here back home in LA I'm driving down the
freeway and I'm listening to a rock station k Los
and dream On plays and your dream I have that

(40:21):
moment where it's they called something Here's why do I
know that song? I know it's from somewhere. It was
so out of context. And when when the guy fs,
oh there are new bad boys from Boston Aerosmith, I
was like, oh shit, those motherfuckers got.

Speaker 6 (40:34):
So.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
There have been a few guests on our show. What
earlier you mentioned a and m exact oh John McClean
that we always miss so you know, I mean, we've
had guests on the show, notably Lenny Kravitz telling me
of a period especially like between seventy five in eighty one,
eighty two in which kind of black Hollywood, Black young

(40:59):
Holly would That world was so small that you had
to know the Carrie Gordy's, the Cravis's, the Medina's, like
anybody in Apollo. Were you ever sort of associated or
inducted in that circle? Because everyone seems to have known
each other. We can never get John McClean on the show.

(41:20):
And I'm mad as hell.

Speaker 7 (41:22):
I knew people. I knew them, but I didn't hang
you know, I was in it, but not of it
because I had my own little sort of world at
that point, and that was earlier part of seventy five.
I was already working for Quincy by then. But you know,
seventy two seventy three period, that's when I first got
in the game as a writer. That's when I first
started doing writing for Soul magazine at the time.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
You wrote for Soul.

Speaker 7 (41:43):
That was my first gig.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Shit, you know how much money I just put down
for back issues of Soul? That is crazy.

Speaker 7 (41:50):
Yeah. Actually, the way I ended up there was I
was there was a kid that I grew up with
in my neighborhood, a guy called David Guest. David lived
somewhat infamy as the guy was married.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
I somewhat yeah sure and U wait, what don't you
family and.

Speaker 7 (42:08):
David and I grew up, grew up Ansino together, and uh,
you know he was he was a record troll too.
I see David a lot in the music stores. We
had different pursuits because I was the guitar player. I
was into guitar, you know, guitar rock stuff. David was
was into girl groups and ship. So we had this thing,
you know, mississ and whoever got on first would pull
the other along. So David was writing for Soul at

(42:31):
that point, and uh he.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
He wrote for Soul magazine. Yah, well, okay, wait for it.

Speaker 7 (42:40):
So so I used to tag along with him to
shows and stuff because in those days l A the
sort of deal here was like Monday nights stuff would
happen at the Whiskey. Tuesday night was opening is at
the Troubadour. Wednesdays with the Roxy Roxy was opened. By
Thursday night would be a total experience down the hood
and from Friday Friday Saturday, Friday Friday Saturday night would

(43:00):
be concerts. So I would tag with David and as
and in those days, the press was treated with a
certain level of dare I say respect or cater to?
And so I would, I would, I would. I would
hang with my man and get in the rooms and
you know, obviously be in this tall, tall dude, tall
black dude in the rooms. There weren't a lot of
us there. So as a result, one of the things

(43:22):
that happened was I would see the shows with David,
and David could hardly write his name, let alone write
a story. And because I'd gone to a school that
you know, English was you know, put upon us, I
wrote all his stories. It wasn't like it was exactly
true joints. I wrote his joints. So one day David
had gotten hired by London Records to work with Al
Green for Hot with High and UH, and he went

(43:44):
into Regina and Regina and the editor at the time,
he said, I'm leaving. I'm going to do this, blah, David,
we don't want you to leave. We'll need the stuff
so much, all that ship, you know, on and on.
David says, well, you like my stuff so much, meet
the guy who's been writing it, and and from stage
left here I come and uh, and they signed me
something and I wrote a couple you know, I wrote
I wrote for him for about a year.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
That is crazy. Okay, So you mentioned those clubs and
this is what I want to know. So my period
of la obviously, I came after I came in on
the tail end of whatever the former scene was, where
like Sunset Boulevard was sort of a safe right, well,

(44:29):
it was also the Death Road period, So say after
ninety eight, it was more you know anyway, you know
what I'm trying to get at. But if you are
wanting to hang with like where it's hip and your
people's like, is the Total Experience club the only option
in town?

Speaker 7 (44:48):
Mavericks Flats another club I've heard of that now, where
is that at? Right down the street from on crnscheall
right down the street from where the Total Experience was?

Speaker 1 (44:56):
So it was no thing to hang on Crenshaw in
the seventies or in the eighties.

Speaker 7 (45:00):
It was well, well, Mavericks and Total Experience. In the eighties,
maybe the Comedy Act theater. Okay, you know there was
stuff to do there.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Comedy Act is where like Robin Harrison.

Speaker 7 (45:11):
Yeah, exactly, that's how I signed up.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Damn, that's right, you signed Robin Harris. I got that.

Speaker 7 (45:17):
So for you though.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Were you an open format fan as in, Okay, I'm
gonna see Arrismith one night and the next night, I'm
gonna see Rufus next night.

Speaker 7 (45:25):
Absolutely country, whatever the case may be. You know, I
get it.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Were you at all and see the LA punk scene
like not much? Not much? So you didn't see like
bands like X or nothing.

Speaker 7 (45:35):
I did see X, did see Missing Persons, Chili Peppers
with the Chili Peppers, So.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
We were like those pre skoy Fish bony post punk
band Where would they.

Speaker 7 (45:47):
Play Madam Wongs Madame Woks was a Chinese restaurant on
on Wilshire Boulevard, Don Don Brentwood, Borderline, Brentwood, Santa Monica
and then also there was Madame Wongs downtown. They would
play there or the star Wood, which was at Los
Sienega in Santa Monica Boulevard. Isn't that still a or

(46:10):
of Crescent Heights and Santa Minchael Boulevard. It's not there anymore.
I think it's been developed into like a mini mall
or something. But that was a place where Van Halen
emerged from, and I remember seeing Clinton do the Uncle
Jam tour there. Uncle Jam Jam Show there Funkadelic show.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Okay, you mentioned working for Quincy. What was your first
industry get?

Speaker 7 (46:32):
Well, they paid me any money or just period because
where you start soul music thing and then also soul
magazine thing. And also I had a gig at Rogers
and Collen one summer PR from Big Time PR from
here Intown. They were looking after Stacks, uh, and the
guy who was who was the head publicist there, a
guy called Sandy Friedman. Sandy hired me to do some

(46:56):
writing for them. I was working in the mailroom. Actually,
Deanie Parker, who was ahead of PR for for Stacks,
recommended me for this job. Al Bell recommended for the
job actually in the mail room at Rogers and Cowen,
and Uh, I was you know, I was token black kid.
Did they hired because they had a black account And
so I was there and did that for a minute.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
And you wait, guys, we we just had a guest
on the show that also started out as PR and promote. Okay,
I'm sorry, I was trying to get mine. Have you
ran into him in circles before? Okay? Now I get it,
I get it. Okay, Yeah, so you so the time,

(47:37):
did you think you're going to start as a publicist.

Speaker 7 (47:40):
Or I kind of was that. I mean, Quincy initially
hired me. That's pretty much what I was there to do.
You know, I was there to sort of blow up.
He called me a pigmy stretcher. He said, go stretch
some fucking pigmies and that's Quincy pylons. Yeah. So he
hired me to as he said, I'll make the music,
you make the no and uh and that that was

(48:01):
kind of what I did. So, Sarah, you basically do
pr marketing and sort of keep an eye on his
interest at the record company. And I was floating around
the n M a lot people looking at me like,
who is this nigga? What's he doing here? What's he doing?

Speaker 1 (48:12):
And this was it. This is for Quest Records, Quincy
Jones Productions. So it was just like doing the sounds
and stuff like that period or body heat, body heat.
So he the reason why he did a really random
guest on Soul Train, like with the brothers Johnson is my.

Speaker 7 (48:27):
Brother playing drums, my little brother playing drums. Yeah, yeah,
guys playing drums.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Oh my god, oh my god. Oh I'm sorry now
to watch it. What are your relationships like? Because I
know now for instans, like there's former interns of mine
at the Tonight Show that then interned that record labels,
and maybe in a year or two they'll figure out, Okay,

(48:56):
my n R, my publicist or whatever. There's a system
to go through. Are are you going through a road
less traveled? Like in terms of publicity, like how do
you know who to market Quincy Jones? Too? Like do
you know the people at People magazine? Do you know
if Rolling Stone's into them?

Speaker 7 (49:13):
It was at that point it was just pull out
the gun and shoot where you may, you know, good luck,
you know. So it was just too I mean, at
that point he had voluminous credits and not a lot
of hits, you know, and my job is to basically
make those voluminous credits seem as I used to say

(49:34):
at the time, you say to people, you know Quincy Jones, Yeah,
I know the name.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
What can you have?

Speaker 7 (49:40):
No idea? People didn't really know what to attach the
name to, you know, and my job is attached to
I wanted to know how.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Potent he was pre off the wall in terms of
like because I know the idea of Quincy Jones, especially
now he's definitely the post thriller effect. And you know
he's told me stories that even off the Wall was
a hard selle because like they didn't want him, you know,
the guy's old, past his prime.

Speaker 7 (50:03):
Whatever. Well, actually the line was they said, he'll make
him sound. He'll make Michael sound like the brothers Johnson
and Brothers were, which Platinum was great, and Mike was like, okay, right,
I see that. But in terms of the potency, I mean,
obviously it was. It was a build because when he
hired me. Ostensibly. The short of the very long story

(50:23):
is I was there to do an interview with him
about Body Heat. I got a call from the publicity
department A and M asking me what I'm interested in
talking to him about body Eat. So I listened to
the record, loved it, said I'd love to. And I
had known him since I was a kid because he
had conducted for my dad and and he had signed
my dad. He made some of my dad's records at
Mercury when he was head of A and rn't Mercury.

(50:46):
So we went. He told me to meet him at
A and M because he was still doing his big
band down down at Disneyland. Disneyland used to do big
band shows during the summer. Uh he said, meet him
in a. M met him in a and M got
on the band bus, went down there. We sat backstage
and talked for you know, all night. He never did
do the interview, so come by the crib the next day.
I did, and talked more for twelve more hours. Never

(51:08):
did do the interview. Told me to come back Sunday
and do it again. We didn't again on Sunday, and
I really never did do the interview. And I realized
after it was all said and done, while I was
there to interview him, he was actually interviewing to me,
and the truth was he had. He explained to me
something I came to realize years later. Quincy shed skin
every seven years seven years or so. You know, he
makes changes overall, and changes and whatever he's working on,

(51:31):
and he was about to make. He said to me,
body heat was indicative of many things he was. He
was moving away from the whole big band arrangement anything
to a more rhythm section based electronic R and B vox.
And as he said to me, say, man, he said,
I feel like every day I'm going to film studios
doing this big band conducting thing. But I'm going home
at night listening to Stevie Rufus and Chako Ohio Players

(51:52):
and Earth Wind and Fire and he said, I want
to I want to jump in those waters. And that's
ostensibly what Body Heat was. And then you know, Body
Heat was his first gold record worked Melon Madness was,
you know, first platinum record, first golden platinum, and Brothers
Johnson Lookout for Number One was also platinum, the first
golden platinum albums by Black Arts the A and M
had had and he just you know, slowly built it

(52:13):
from there. You know, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah, I found your brother by the way.

Speaker 7 (52:17):
Yep, yep, there it is. That's got back to my
brother guy.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
What is your How long did you stay with Quincy Jones?

Speaker 7 (52:30):
And he was there for eleven years from nineteen seventy
three to nineteen eighty four.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Wow, who was the brain trust behind his branding? Like
I've never seen someone have their logo on someone else's
record before.

Speaker 7 (52:44):
Yeah, he said, he was like I want to, I
want my logo on there, you know, and said we
thought helped him fight for it.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
But that's so unprecedented though, Like who knew to do that? Like?
Is that is that the First, Uh, what do you
call the drop that every producer has, like, oh, like
a guy a producer tag like this music.

Speaker 6 (53:05):
No, No, but seriously, I mean, if not to that extent,
but no, it really was great, Brandon, because every time
you saw that logo, you knew what the record was
going to sound you, at least for me as a kid,
like reading that and seeing Quincy Jones productions like, Okay,
I know I'm getting Polino da Costa, Jerry Hay, I
know I'm getting Rod Tempersent, right, you know what I mean?

(53:26):
It was already just kind of a building selling.

Speaker 7 (53:29):
The other thing we said you to is when he
was doing a new artist, So I said, Quincy Jones presents,
you know, Brothers Johnson or whatever.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
At any point do you sort of elevate past like
doing this publicity to like actually working, So like, why
do you work with Patty Austin where it's weird, Like
I know, I believe she's this god daughter or.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Her I feel like forever?

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Right, So, like, what was your first big responsibility Brothers
Brothers Johnson? Really yeah? Okay? So for those three four.

Speaker 7 (54:06):
Albums, ibserved for four records, from the first album through
through the star the night. Okay, look out for number one?
Second record, right on time, right on time, and the.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Worst beating in my life. Well, you know, because they
jumped again. This is another impressible Americans in Trouble story.
You know, they're jumping on the album cover and the
I guess the camera right, And so I once I
used to always go to my dad's band mates like

(54:37):
and try it jumping. And I jumped and dropped the
dad's guitar players and yeah, boy, and talk about lookout
for number one? Number one was the belt.

Speaker 7 (54:49):
You live to tell?

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah? Yeah, man? Yeah, So like what were your duties
in terms of their projects? I was de facto manager,
but really yeah, like a project manager or like manager.

Speaker 7 (55:02):
Of that product manager product as well as artist manager.
You know, just sort of connected the dots on his
behalf because in the early days, the first three records,
yeah there were, Quincy had a management company called Mellow
Management and then and it was he basically he and
I got a guy called Peter Long, and Peter Long
actually was it's funny missed in Sesame Street. He was

(55:22):
married to uh along the red Along, Yeah exactly, and
Peter Peter.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Was how long was he married?

Speaker 7 (55:28):
To a long time. He played keyboards, right, No, uh no,
he was a stage manager at the Apollo and he
and he ran the Apollo Kids. Luther came through there, now,
Rogers came through there.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, and Luther the only authorized book. That's how I know.
The name Luther kind of speaks of how like wanting
Peter Long's approval of Like I guess Peter was sort
of like the doting father that you know, never gave.

(56:01):
He was very acerbic, right, and Luther always felt like
no matter he would sell out consonants. He was Luther Vangrosen. Finally,
like maybe the Busy Body tour the Night I Fell
in Love tour, like Peter Long was like, I'm proud
of you. You did well for yourself, and like Luther
like cried, like finally I made my dad proud, like

(56:22):
that sort of thing. That's how I know Peter Long.

Speaker 7 (56:25):
Yeah, Peter was the responsible adult because during the course
of the early period of my existence with Quincy, he
would always bring in because I was a kid. He
hired me when I was nineteen, and he would always
bring in a so called responsible adult to kind of
you know, balance me out, you know, make sure I
didn't get two buck and Peter was that guy.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Okay, yeah, so as a manager, and so I'm glad
I'm interviewing someone who was a manager. In the seventies,
were writers a thing? Yeah that okay, so similar to now.

Speaker 7 (56:58):
Ish but yeah, but you know now they're more pronounced,
and in those days, you know, it was primarily you know,
the black promoters consortium, you know, so you know, if
you tried that, I only want the red eminems like
nigga fuck all right?

Speaker 1 (57:15):
So I later found out from David Lee Roth that
they weren't separating the green eminems. If you don't know,
Van Halen was world famous for separating the brown Eminem's
from the pile, and we thought that was the most
arrogant rock star the boucher shit ever but we later
discovered that not true. Yeah, we later found out that

(57:39):
the reason why Van Halen had that in their writer
was because sometimes promoters would not read the writers at all.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
To see if you're paying attention to details.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Right, And so that was the that was the thing. Wait,
one more question about them. What happened in nineteen eighty
one with the Winners record and why didn't Quincy produced
that album?

Speaker 7 (58:02):
I was gone by that. I mean, I wasn't gone then.
You know, guys wanted to Quincy got tired of hearing Yeah,
these records are great, but wait till you hear what
we do when we get chanted it ourselves, you know,
and Quincy was like, okay, have something with that, right.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
It's weird because it's not like they stopped working with
I mean, you know Lewis still yeah, exactly was working
with them. But in their mind they're like, did they
feel as though they wanted to get a more modern
sound or you thought they had graduated and were ready
to get out on their own, you know, ah, and
you don't let that happen. Is this also a classic

(58:39):
case of like, you know, you gotta let them find out.

Speaker 7 (58:42):
On their own and he did in their own way.
And then then also Quincy at that point is doing
other stuff, so you know Mike mic and his own records.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
And so where did you jump to after that?

Speaker 7 (58:54):
After Ariston? I went to aristone eighty four. I started
in January eighty five, I had uh, so.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
It's kind of after you No, well, I mean I
always consider Angelo Bouthfield like mine. Yeah, I loved it,
loved her loved her.

Speaker 7 (59:12):
Yeah, what was he like?

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Because anytime she was on television, she was the most
her and Tota Vega was the most eccentric humans I've
ever seen get interviewed. She was And what was about her?

Speaker 7 (59:26):
Like?

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Was he just does she have? Like? Was humor her shield?
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (59:30):
I was crushed out because you know, she was on
g RP and Gruson is one of Quincy's closest friends,
and it was.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
D Dave Bruson really ran GRP.

Speaker 7 (59:38):
He and Larry Larry Rosen. Yeah, and I remember when
she played here for the Angela Night record, you know,
a big coming out party here in La and I
was I was crushed out, crushed out fanboy. And uh,
when I got to Arista, they too tough had just
sort of happened, had happened, and they were doing the
Greatest Hits record, and Clive had me looking for songs

(01:00:03):
for the Greatest Hits Record. You know they want to
add two extra song.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Yeah, extra song.

Speaker 7 (01:00:06):
So we just song called still in Love that Derek
Bramble produced and wrote, and uh, and she should call
me high ed. She had little little cutesy voice and
she was, you know, said kind of eccentric. Yeah, she
was cool.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
She's very under the moon and over the star.

Speaker 7 (01:00:21):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
So what was working with prime Clive Davis?

Speaker 7 (01:00:28):
Like, well, nineteen eighty four, when Quincy and I stopped
working together, I got a call from Neil Port. Now
Port now you know who ran the Grammys. And Neil
at that point was ahead of West head of the
West Coast for Arista. So he calls me because I
knew him from from record business out here. He worked
for twenty Century Records, worked Verry White and stuff like that,
very White, and then James Inger, the original James's first

(01:00:50):
deal was actually a twentieth twentieth Century Wow. Yeah, we
jacked him basically from them. And Neil calls me one
day in the office and and what's up. Neil says,
there's a rumor that you're leaving Quincy. He said, it's
not a rumor. I said, I'm leaving. He said, would
you be interested in talking to Clive? It's because Jerry
Griffith is leaving. Jerry Griffith being the guy who had
signed Whitney found Whitney. He said, would you be interested

(01:01:10):
in talking to Clive? You know? I said, yeah, sure,
because I was well aware of the legend of and
all that stuff and had never met the man. Neil says,
he said, there's just one thing to remember, and I said, well,
he said, Eris is a label of artists, and Clive's
the biggest artist on the label. And uh, oh, I
got you. So I got a call and met him
over at the Beverly Hills Hotel, you know, the legendary

(01:01:31):
Enclaver he Old's court when he's here, and uh in
a in a suite, you know, with speakers. Basically I
thought it was in a fucking Metallica gig, you know, cranked,
you know, and he people music and he's blasting, you know,
and he's played me Whitney. He's Whitney was working progress.
The first record he played, you Give Good Love, played

(01:01:52):
a bit of how well I Know and Saving All
My Love for you and you know when just back
to back to back, and you couldn't really talk to
him after I said, oh, that's Whitney. Hears that he
goes really, how'd you know? I said, I said, I
know these things, you know. And recently they had had
a showcase here in LA for writers and producers, which
was kind of legendary story at the time where he
was pitching for songs and stuff and Quincy couldn't make it.

(01:02:15):
But I was well aware and you know, Whitney was fine,
you know, and I was smart enough to know that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
So do those things generally work? Like when you gather uh,
you know, a bunch of of of not even named
brand but writers and producers in a room and someone
tries to sell you on their artists, like we're going
to really make it work.

Speaker 7 (01:02:40):
Sometimes that generally work. Sometimes when its Clive Davis or
Quincy Jones. Yeah, you know, so when it's just you know,
some pisher an our guy, but.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Not so much.

Speaker 7 (01:02:51):
But yeah, so you know, he played me, played me,
that played me a kashif some of the Kachiff record
that was in motion, Kenny g record, which was basically
record with Kenny playing solos.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Was he generally you know, okay, not not to throw
the bus, but like kind of like the way that
Jimmy Ivying operated during the time when we were under
the tutelage of Jimmy Ivy. Like, you know, it's like
if you're in a world where you're dealing with sting
and no doubt in eminem then it's like you might

(01:03:23):
just get like a once a year below there and whatever.
But in general, was Clive the type of artist that
paid attention to a group like Real, a group like
Real to Real, just like he would you know about
Real to Real? Dude, I'm a leon, We're a leon.

Speaker 7 (01:03:43):
And I took him a copy of the Real Real cassette.
He'd forgotten all about it, Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
They just released that that album. They just digitized it
like maybe a month ago. Wow, it's finally on streaming.
But I'm saying, would he pay attention to them as
much as he would air supply or no?

Speaker 7 (01:03:57):
No, I don't know their situation. I mean basically the
role of thumb that we had amongst the A and
our staff, whether it was true or not, but it was.
We found it to be the practical reality, which was
if he had stuff that he was excited about at
one point and then somehow had lost its luster, it
didn't perform in the marketplace or whatever, and they went

(01:04:18):
back in to do their fill in the blank second
or third record, and the new songs that came in
weren't his cool and blah blah blah, but they didn't
want to pay out to throw the bone to the
ANR guys here fix this, you know. And Real the
Real was one of those situations for me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Okay, now know what happened to like average White band and.

Speaker 7 (01:04:38):
Real the Real and Patrese.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Yeah that's right, but yeah it feels so real, like well,
it's hard to tell, like when if you're a kid
and you hear a song long enough. Yeah yeah, but okay,
So even Jeffrey Osborne explained to his situation with with
the Aerosmith and the same with Ray Parker Jr. So yeah,
like who would you at at Arista? Who what was

(01:05:02):
your duties there as far as like.

Speaker 7 (01:05:04):
I was vice president of an R for aren't the.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
R and b R and b area what X came
onto your tutelage?

Speaker 7 (01:05:12):
Obviously they were under clives too, right, you know? But
uh uh, Aretha, it was during the Freeway love period,
just heavily during the Narda period. I have some great fun.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Yeah, please give me. I'm also curious about just how
jazz fusion guys ironically weird enough start establishing the pop
landscape of the eighties, and Nard is one of those.

Speaker 7 (01:05:40):
People there with him is I should have loved you?
You know, I mean, yeah, very well because Brothers Johnson toured.
The tour was Noardi, Michael Walden, Rufus and Shaka heat
Wave and Brothers Johnson and Bill Yeah one, Bill Arenas
and uh and Narda had like fifteen minutes up front.
You know, basically, I should have loved you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
And then you know some I don't want anybody else
to dance with you. Now, I think that was what's
his name?

Speaker 7 (01:06:05):
Jackson was?

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Yeah, he was seventeen. Yeah, So as an an R
and you know who your boss is, how heavy is
the pressure to readjust your ears and your preferences to
sort of blend in with his for survival's sake, as

(01:06:26):
opposed to I think it should go in this direction.

Speaker 7 (01:06:32):
Yeah, it was a frustrating experience, but I learned a
great deal and I hold dear to my to my
heart to twenty months that I worked for Clive because
he puts you up on game, you know, because when
I came out of Quincy, it was kind of like
I'd been in a glorified mom and Pop or I've
been at Howard and going to Clive was like going
to Harvard.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
What's the main lessons that Quincy taught you that, And
what's the main lessons that Clive taught.

Speaker 7 (01:06:59):
You, Quincy, I'd say song, song is king and melody
is queen. Truth and honesty at all times, and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
You know, creatively, your business all the above.

Speaker 7 (01:07:10):
Okay, Yeah, My take on q in those days was
if there were two doors in a room, one was
marked artist, one was marked business, ninety seven percent of
the times he would go in and out of the
artist or but you know the business store was was
he was well oiled, he was in other you know,
he was highly evolved.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
As a businessman.

Speaker 7 (01:07:28):
Get it. He was really driven by the business and
his business drove his art in a lot of levels.

Speaker 5 (01:07:35):
So Clyde was the was it Everse was he was
more business than.

Speaker 7 (01:07:39):
Clyde was song. But he was definitely business and it
was the feel for the marketplace. This sounds like a
pejorative and it's not intended to be per se, but
we used to hear from time to time just because
their artist doesn't mean they know what they're doing. It's
our responsibility as a our people and creative people at

(01:08:01):
the record company, because we're spending the money to find hits,
to find the hits.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
For so is there an example of a song in
which the artist might be perceived as kicking and screaming
like there is air supply, like we had.

Speaker 7 (01:08:14):
This even I wasn't really with their supply. Their supply
wasn't there when I was there, and Manilow had, Manelo
had more or less had left the label at that point.
I was there during the you know it was Billy Ocean,
you know, with the give stuff, hoo DENI with the
give stuff. That's what friends are for Dionne. Because that

(01:08:36):
that was a frustrating record for me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Why didn't last night only getting the worse? That was
just the record single? Yeah, what's the story of that?
From your nuts?

Speaker 7 (01:08:50):
My frustration was Arthur Baker and little Stephen had come
to me with the with the Sun City record. We
didn't want to do that, and and and I played
it for Climb and played it for Roy, rented up
the Flagpoole for all the obvious reasons. I really wanted it,
and I like Arthur and I like Steven, and I
brought it in and it kind of dangled and dawdled
for a bit and then we're not gonna do it.

(01:09:11):
We're gonna do the Dion has just come to me
with this idea from Burt Backrack. Blah blah blah. It
was the front end of the whole AIDS epidemic thing,
you know, And I admit that I was a bit
of a knucklehead. I was like, fucking fuck that. Yea,
this is important to Sun Cities. However, black people, black people,
black people, and you know, they weren't having it, and
then so he wasn't having it. So ultimately Arthur and

(01:09:33):
Stephen took it to Manhattan to Bruce Lunvall. I guess yeah, uh,
and then Clive, you know they did. That's what friends
are for. And this is pre digital, so any kind
of cuts and edits, we're actual tape cuts and stuff.
And there's a guy who was on the A and
R staff with me then, uh, still a friend of
a guy called John Mervos. Mervos and I have had
a running bit ever since then, because there was an

(01:09:54):
A and R meeting at one point where Clive had
us in there listening to a bazillion different mixes and
different cuts. You know, Stevie first, Gladys first, you know,
you keep smiling. He's smiling, so.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
You're trying to tell me that they wanted the piecemeal together,
like yeah, all right, so we'll bring glass in the end.

Speaker 7 (01:10:14):
And they did it all they did. Everybody had a
solo verse, everybody had an ad lib.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
So everyone saying the verse, and then you guys had
to figure out the nomination.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
He would offer his You know that, how do you
figure out the sequence first?

Speaker 7 (01:10:31):
There?

Speaker 5 (01:10:34):
I was always felt that song.

Speaker 6 (01:10:35):
I mean I was five six whenever it came out,
but I always thought it felt like they were trying
to make a wee all the world, like they were
going for that moment, like another anthem kind of that's
what Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
But I always wondered why Gladys Knight never got a verse.
She just comes in on the ad lib at the end. Smile,
he smiling. That's the only time she appears on it, right,
So goo ahead. So were you there for the recording
of it or just like not.

Speaker 7 (01:11:04):
In the studio, but you know, in the in the
office because you know that was a client project, so
you know you'd bring me and our guys in, you
know when when there was a decision to be made
or listen to this what do you think kind of stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
You know and uh, and how long did it take
to slice together and all of those things.

Speaker 7 (01:11:18):
I don't know, I remember. I just remember the meeting
being interminable, you know, and a certain pint like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
We got to get Steve Little Stephen on the show
because I just finished his reading his autobiography and him
talking about leaving leaving right on the payoff of boring
in the USA to do uh, artist against apartheid.

Speaker 7 (01:11:42):
And he's a good man. I almost almost hired him
at one point at Mercury really because you know, he's
part of the bon Jovie mob.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
And uh, he's a record guy.

Speaker 7 (01:11:51):
Yeah, so I used to see him a lot around
John and Richie and those guys. Okay, you talked to
me when he had it was just formed of the
Disciples of Soul, his band, and uh. I remember being
in England with bon Jovi and Stephen was there and
kicking it with the said.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Our job. You know. So how long was your your
run at Arista?

Speaker 7 (01:12:10):
Twenty months?

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Okay from January it was your last few months, Like.

Speaker 7 (01:12:16):
Weird. It got weird there from a bit because the
project that I ended up working on that took it
became pretty clear to me early on in the process
that I always said that, you know, it's Clive's candy store,
and if he doesn't want a certain kind of chocolate
in the candy store, you're fucked. And there were things

(01:12:37):
that I wanted to do that you know, kept getting
shot down because.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
This is a canine story.

Speaker 7 (01:12:41):
I had LeVert early Wait what yeah, I had Lavert
because because Eddie and uh Eddie and Harry Coombs called
me one day and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Said, hey, man, what you doing.

Speaker 7 (01:12:52):
He said, me and Eddie are gonna come out here.
You want your headies? Kid? He played me, played me.
They had an independent record of the song I'm Still Yes,
and then heard it and smash, you know, and the
kid sounds like his dad was all good and uh
and played it for the boss and he was like,
you know, so pass.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
Okay without really in the most respectful way, or if
you just want to be honest, does sometimes this black
music have to be explained to him, like did he
know the magic that he had in Hudini or is
this like, oh these rap guys went gold too.

Speaker 7 (01:13:27):
That was really Clive Calder and Barry Wise and a
Carle and Carly you should have on the show. Sometimes
tokyoski Yo.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Yeah, he had a pretty good feeling. He had a
feel for songs, songs and trends, you know. So yeah,
all right, Okay, So I'm revisiting and there's a reason
why I have all the Soul Trained stuff. So now
I'm kind of in the Sole Train Awards thing, and
I'm watching season two of the Soul Train Awards and
you can clearly hear the booze and the jeers of

(01:13:57):
the second album in the build. I was there, Okay,
so in the building even though, And it's so weird
because everyone's relationship with I want to dance with somebody now,
like I put I want to dance with somebody in
what I call the September file, I don't I don't

(01:14:19):
believe that Earth when Fire really thought like September was
going to be their signature song, just like I don't
think Run DMC thought that It's tricky it's going to
be their signature song. Now it's like when I play
I want to Dance with Somebody who loves me, it's
almost like I see the revisionist reaction of everyone, like
we've always loved the song, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
Did as a little girl when it came out as
a that's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Because when you were young and no, no, no, and
it's technically nothing, it's nothing wrong with it, but there's
a reason.

Speaker 7 (01:14:52):
For me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Okay. So George Clinton once told this joke, said that
slide Stone said this about Prince. I was like, man,
he walked around here like they want to some sign
of the Time show, and George is like, what'd you think?
Like that was the first time that Sly really got
to see Princess, and Sli allegedly said, man, man, he
up there tasting like broccoli when he should be tasting

(01:15:17):
like mustard greens. I got that, and so I think
in my mind the thing was I tried to figure out. Okay,
so the version that I would have wanted Whitney Houston
to come out with then it would just probably been
like a she record more thinking about you is more

(01:15:37):
you give good loves, which we're still our gems. But
I don't know. Oftentimes I don't want to be the
fan that punishes someone for having to adjust to the climate.
And it's almost like I don't know what the answer is,
But I do remember when I got that record, you know,

(01:16:00):
loves the Contact Sport, and I was just like, Wow,
this is really poppy. And I wasn't thing like an
an r at the age of fifteen, but even I knew,
like from inception, the the motive always was.

Speaker 7 (01:16:14):
I remember just being there, She's a pop star, Whitney's
gonna be the biggest pop star in the world, and
that was that was that was the goal. And the
Kashif tracks were there to basically introduce her to put
toe in the water at black radio, get black folks,
you know, to know what it is. But then we're
crossing it from there, you know, did anyone ever asked?

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
But at what cost? That's not Whitney Houston, because I'm
almost certain that she too was like, hello, I don't know,
I don't know. Okay, so do you know what the
general feeling in the building was after the Sole Train
Award situation, because I'm really shocked they didn't edit, so
they later edited those booze out.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
But I recorded it like the full sentence of mere
fort a young folk.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Okay. So at the Soul Train Awards, and it really
wasn't Whitney's fault, but she was just like, too you biquit,
it's winning too much. And so when they were nominated
and the nominas of her so emotional winning US and
you just clearly hear it's just crazy crazy Booze and
me and my mom looking at each other watching the

(01:17:16):
Soul Train Awards like yo, like wow, and so who do.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
We want to win? I'm like, now a retrospect too,
I'm like, who do we think? God dooped?

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
I was frustrated at her career. I'm proud of this success,
but there was just too much scene on it for me,
too much Yamaha, Dix seven too much, you know, the
Michael Master intros and everything. But it's weird because now
it's like, oh, I love this all along, which is

(01:17:46):
you know, but what were your general feelings, like what
was the feelings of the building after the Soul Train Awards?

Speaker 7 (01:17:53):
Just disappointment? Do you know what the fuck was that?
You know kind of thing, you know, But was it an.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Instant like we gotta fix this or was Claud aware
like we might have to fix this.

Speaker 7 (01:18:02):
Let's just keep it moving. That was the vibe I guys,
keep it moving, you know, keep putting it on the
radio and blow it up.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
What happened after Arista?

Speaker 7 (01:18:14):
What the PolyGram? There was a new music seminar was
going on in New York. It was August July of
eighty six, and I'd run into this guy called Bob
Scoo Scorro ended up being in my head at A
and R for Mercury the pop side. And Bob and
I had known each other from out here because he
used to be a song plugger for EMI Music. And

(01:18:36):
I saw him when he was like, dude, how I am?

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
You know one of those things? What's happening? I said, dude,
get me out of here? He said what he said,
just get me out of here.

Speaker 7 (01:18:43):
I see. It wasn't working out for me, it was
it was weird environment. I said, I don't want to
be here anymore. And I had aspirations of doing something.
You know, Arista was not a great place to be
at that time if you were a creative person who
had illusions of your own personal grandeur.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
You know, who did you try to bring there that
besides LeVert like.

Speaker 7 (01:19:05):
LeVert who got away? Basically LeVert us mostly songs? Could
you find songs and stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
You know that?

Speaker 7 (01:19:14):
Uh? That you what songs?

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Did you ride for that?

Speaker 7 (01:19:17):
Caravana Love for Angie?

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
Really?

Speaker 7 (01:19:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
Wow? Caravan Love Angel.

Speaker 7 (01:19:25):
Yeah, wow, my my ex girlfriend from years. Her sister
was married to Ernie, and uh and yeah, I got
to call it one one point. You know, Ernie and
Chris have songs they want you to hear. So yeah,
I'm looking for songs for Angie Bofield. Well we got
a perfect song for They came up and played me
Caravana Love, and uh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
I didn't see it.

Speaker 7 (01:19:47):
No, so no, it was too preachy. So yeah, okay, Yeah, anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
I assume that he's trying to hit Middle America. Yeah,
yesh okay, and you're trying to hit all of America exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:20:01):
Okay, So that got frustrating, and the projects that I
actually ended up working with Kenny g got dropped in
my lap, you know, because I did the toes Thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
Can you plan that moment?

Speaker 7 (01:20:16):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
Can you plan that level of lightning in a bottle?

Speaker 7 (01:20:20):
Here's the moment. I'd known Kenny as Kenny Gorlic when
he was playing with Jeff Lauber's band. I was a
Laber fan and uh and so when I got in
then and once again I spent some time with Kashif
and out here in La Hi, How You Doing was
actually a hit record on the radio, which was a
Kenney record, but it was Kaif with Kenny solo in it.
And uh So, one day I get a call Clive

(01:20:43):
actually Roy Lott, who's the number two guy in Ariston,
and Roy says, you know Kenny Kenny g blah blah
blah blah blah. So yeah cool, let me hear it.
I said, I know who he is. Let me hear it.
And then Kenny calls Kenny's manager, guy called Dennis Turner,
who had managed George Benson. I knew. I knew him
from the Gimme the night days. So they came by
and Kenny walks in and he says, dude, I don't

(01:21:05):
want to be here anymore. I want to get off
the label. I hated here. I fucking hate it here.
I'm tired of being a sideman on my own records.
And I looked at I said, dude, I know who
you are. I said, I saw you play with Jeff
many times. I said, I like your playing. He looked
at me, like what what what? He said, Yeah, Dick,
how you sounded good with with Larber's band. I said,
I know what you're trying to do. I said, but
the reality is is people are trying to put you

(01:21:26):
in a in a box that you need to be
Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane, when the reality of it is,
I know you, your path in it is like David
Sanborn and Grover you know, and Junior Walker. So that
was like music to me. This it was at the time,
was at the front end of the CD thing, but
also it is at the front end of the whole
smooth jazz, the wave format, you know. And I said,

(01:21:47):
I think you can live in that zone. And then
he gave me a cassette of you know, the home
stuff that he was working on, which was ultimately the
bones of the meat and bones of what was the
duo ton And and I told him to say, man,
look here's what we need to do. If you trust me,
here's what we need to do to make this fly.

Speaker 5 (01:22:01):
Here.

Speaker 7 (01:22:02):
So we got to do two covers. We got to
do two vocal songs. One of them's got to be
a cover and that was what does it Take to
Win Your Love? And then another and another vocal song,
which was don't Don't make Me Wait for love?

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:22:16):
We got a guy called Ellis Hall, who's a keyboard
player up up in the Bay Area that did a
lot of stuff for NARDA got Ellis to sing it,
and ultimately he ended up putting Bolton on it. I said,
and if we do that, we have some of the radio.
Can promotion can take the radio. We're off to the
race and the rest will live on it. So and
you'll you'll be the king of you know whatever, smooth jazz.
And we did so.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
Nowhere and you can't end it. We did, I mean
we did. You weren't done you surely you weren't thinking like,
and this is going to sell you ten million copies.

Speaker 7 (01:22:45):
No, I didn't think that because I didn't think the
songbird would would end up emerging a.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
Songbird, even I was working at sam Goodies at the time.
Even like the amount of people, that's how I knew.
I realized that I knew some songs from a previous record, right,
But the amount of people just kept in somber. That's
I don't know what a duotones is. How did y'all?
How did song I was?

Speaker 7 (01:23:08):
I was gone by then, But basically what happened. The
story that I'm told is Donnie Einer, who is the
head of promotion at Ariston in those days, best promotion
man of his of his of his period, of his era.
Donnie had gotten a call from some guy up and like,
I want to say, Uh, what's the part of Pennsylvania
that Biden talked about aways from? Uh, Scranton some some

(01:23:30):
p d and Scranton had been using it for some
using it as a theme for some like daytime call
in show or something, just the melody, And I guess
people started calling station what is that? What's that melody?
Play man? And so they put the record on late
at night and then phone started lighting up and they
called Donnie and said, I think you may have something here,
and Donnie pushed Donnie and Cliveve pushed the button, put
it out and off off it went.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
Yeah, okay, So at PolyGram, how long does it take
you to get to the top of the mountain?

Speaker 7 (01:24:00):
I had I was working at aristonat and Ramon came
by to see me one day, just you know, on
some some whatever, and uh, Vanessa at that point, had
you know done, just dur frysco at that shake and hey,
good looking on on the PFONK record on George Clinton record,
and uh, and I knew that they'd been in and
out of mini offices here shopping a deal. And ostensibly

(01:24:22):
what was happening was that she was kind of being
ogled at by you know, record company presidents and A
and R people whatever, but nobody was really taking it seriously.
And he said, you know, we haven't been able to
get anything happen, and blah blah blah blah. And I
told him, I said, look on the lowest and I'm
leaving here in about six weeks. I got this software
PolyGram to start a label for them, and I'm going
back home to California. I said I would entertain the

(01:24:44):
notion then, because my theory at the time was I
could start a new label with Susie Jones, you know,
black on Army female that nobody nobody's ever heard of,
or I could do with Vanessa Williams. I named that
everybody knew, and I said it was in coming on
me as an A and R guy and a record
maker to make the music, to find the right hole
to put her in. And so he's said, okay, cool.
So I flew. I came home and she and I,

(01:25:06):
she and I sat and had dinner one night, and uh,
after the races, we went.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
You know is the goal of an an R to
find like three signature artists so that you can eventually
like get considered for well.

Speaker 7 (01:25:22):
Interestingly enough, the uh, the presidency thing was not what
I ever aspired to be, you know, president of the
whole Mercury thing. I never aspired to be that guy.
But there was a certain aspect of when it was
offered to me. I thought about a lot of those
old school dudes that I knew from, you know, from

(01:25:42):
my dad's era. You know, old old old brothers who
would promotion and whatever the Dave Clark's, Joe Medlin's in
the world. People like people probably worked your old man's records.
So yeah, So those guys were very qualified and extremely
good at what they did, but they never were offered.
The situation never got never got shot. I thought about it.
I said, who am I to say no? So they

(01:26:03):
made me an offer I couldn't refuse, and I didn't
refuse it. But the truth of the matter is the
path if I had stayed on the path that I
was on doing the wing thing Vanessa Blue, Tony's Blue,
Robin Harris was was gonna do, was gonna blow. Unfortunately,
lost them in a period of time, and then that's
when I found Brian along the same period of time,
Brian McKnight. So if I had just done those records

(01:26:26):
and just stayed in their careers, you know that was
you know that one success breeds another album. I would
have been four or five albums deep on each one
of them. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
You came through the Tonys because of Foster mceilroy, but
I thought they were more Warner based and no, like,
how did they come to you?

Speaker 7 (01:26:43):
I put them with Denny Tommy. Oh yeah, short. How
they came to me was the Tony said made us
made a single, the twelve inch on Macolo Records, the
local indie record, indy label.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
Yeah, he tells you designs video games.

Speaker 7 (01:27:04):
Yeah, I forget to nip because I was thinking about it.
I can't find it now. I shouldn't have sold my vinyl. Yes,
So they had a twelve inch on mycola and my
head of promotion at Wing at the time was a
guy called Michael Johnson. And Michael came to me one
day and said, man, you got to hear this record
and I heard. I said, yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
Sorry, I said, he.

Speaker 7 (01:27:23):
Said, man, they're here in times. Let's you want to
fuck with him? And said yeah. Their manager came by
and I sat with him a little bit and and
upon hearing it, I went, these guys sound good, but
they need help. They need somebody to help far sort
it out a little bit. In those days, my theory
was every producer worth any degree of salt had a
cassette in his back pocket of an act that they
wanted to work with. You know, Oh, this is my cousin,

(01:27:45):
this is my brother, you know what? And uh, I said,
you know, these guys are cool, so let me. David Lombard,
who manages Denny and Tommy, was a friend, and I
went to see Club Nouveau because Club Nouveau was playing
here in town. So when Danny and Tommy were still
in the band before they left, it was actually the
last gig they played with him, So was the show
with David, and he introduced me with Danny and Tommy,

(01:28:05):
and I told him, I said, man, I'd like to
have you guys work on this band that I'm thinking
about signing. Really who And I told me, oh, we
know those guys. They knew them from Oakland because I
guess they'd worked with Tommy in the studio up in Oakland.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
So at the time, did you realize that you were
working with possibly the last well not the last R
and B group, But I meant, if it starts with
Sling the Family Stone in sixty eight and it kind
of the bracket ends with Tony Tony Tony in eighty eight,
I was.

Speaker 7 (01:28:34):
I was very aware of it. Absolutely, So you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
Knew that black music was in trouble even in eighty
six seven.

Speaker 5 (01:28:41):
And what were some of the indicators for you?

Speaker 7 (01:28:44):
Black radio? You know, there was that that MTV video
of video killed the radio star, and I said, black
radio killed the Black radio star during the period of
time you know about that?

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Is it just in terms of promoting you talk about
Donnie Iron, which I didn't know it even started and
start there, but that was when it was a big
gig before he went to we went to Son. Yeah, okay,
So when you talk about promotion, men, do you tell
about the difference between as much as you're allowed to say,
like how these songs get on radio or how they

(01:29:18):
get promoted as opposed to that which.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
I you know, and explain what you mean about how
it killed because we didn't really explain it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Yeah, that part.

Speaker 7 (01:29:28):
Yeah, both of the above. So to give a perfect
example as it worked with me, was when we released
the first Brothers Johnson album in nineteen seventy six, look
Out for Number One. The first city that it blew
up in was d C. So we being George and Lewis,
were going to d C to do some promotion and
we're coming in from Dulles in the car and we're

(01:29:51):
hearing and turn on h U R and Ky asked
whatever the other stations in d C and they're blasting
good to you. Get the phone, look out my face, thunders,
thumbs and lightings like free and single and tomorrow praying
five even the filler yet five cuts deep, you know,
playing the ship out of it. You know this is
exactly playing a ship out of it, and say, oh

(01:30:11):
my god, this is great, you know it was.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
It's all like that.

Speaker 7 (01:30:13):
So that night we were the local guy in the
market took us to dinner with the program director music
director of.

Speaker 1 (01:30:22):
W o L, the big radio one.

Speaker 5 (01:30:26):
Yeah, that was preen w L w M m J
is Katy.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
Katy's first station.

Speaker 7 (01:30:32):
So they took us to dinner with these guys. It
was a program director at the time is a guy
called Bobby Bennett who was known as the Burner, sort
of legendary radio guy, another guy called Chuck McCool, guy
called Cortes Thompson who went on to become a head
of promotion at at Warner Brothers. And another guy whose
name escapes soon. So you know, we're at the dinner
table and I'm green behind you as I'm geeked, Oh,

(01:30:53):
this is worth the palm. This is great, this is great.
You guys are playing it right the car. Well, we
heard our record the whole way in uh. And one
of them looks, come, young brother, let me talk to
you a minute. He took me into the bathroom, you know,
and said, and then five guys come in the bathroom
and what the fuck this? Let me explain something to you,
it said, Okay, said basically, you know, we're playing the
Ship out of your record, but you know we can

(01:31:13):
play the Ship out of his record or her record
or his record too. But here's here's here's your payback
for this.

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
We're gonna do it.

Speaker 7 (01:31:19):
We're doing this. We're also concert promoters. We're gonna do
a series of shows in the d C d M
v DC, Maryland, Virginia, it was p P Funk, Natalie
Cole and the Bootsy and the Brothers Johnson and whatever
you're going rate is, it's not gonna be your going rate.
So and we'll keep you'll keep those spins up. And
they did and we did, and uh, this is.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
How the Chef Gordon Teddy Pendergrast story comes into play
because Shef Gordon told us that programmers and DJs were,
like any concerts that you saw in the seventies and eighties,
were due to the radio station, not independent of Hey,
I'm coming to town and you pay me right, so

(01:32:04):
they the promo show.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
I guess era getting of the promo shows because that.

Speaker 7 (01:32:12):
Show you're gonna play our Christmas show, you know years later.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
A see, So how did they kill it? How did
black radio kill it? For you?

Speaker 7 (01:32:19):
There's so much I don't want to say payola, but
just there are limited spots. Guys were taking money and
then you know they wouldn't play the way you know,
it didn't get the spends that you know that you
expected to get, you know, so many hours in the
day and then you know, but legitimate hits got played,
but stuff that you know that you you want to
get a shot. You know, I think we could do

(01:32:40):
well with this. Here's X amount. You know, I need whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
Fifty spins this weekend.

Speaker 7 (01:32:44):
Whatever didn't happen, you know, guys took your money and ran,
you know, and then all of a sudden, there's no
loyalty anymore to legacy acts.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:32:54):
You know when you see like that, I'm talking early
into late nineties. When you're seeing that, Luther Stevie, I
need a People out there are having to fight to
get on the radio at black radio. That's really a
sad state of affairs, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:33:07):
I think about it all the time. But for you,
it's like when when do you consider you leaving or
do you consider yourself completely graduated from quote unquote the business?

Speaker 7 (01:33:19):
Yeah, am, I'm more or less retired. I still do
little bits and pieces of stuff here and there, you know,
because I get these occasional phone calls, Hey, Ed, I
got an idea, And I always say, does the check
come with that idea? I'll pay attention.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
So what do you is watching the state of music
right now? Is it a dizzying experience somewhat? Is it
like a beautiful mind meme where you see like, is
it like that for you.

Speaker 7 (01:33:45):
Yeah, somewhat. It was interesting. In preparation for today, I
was thinking about, you know, I said, if I get
asked the question, what are you listening to?

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
And I had to realize I hate answering that question.

Speaker 7 (01:33:55):
Yeah, And I realized that, you know, of most of
the new stuff that I listened to is old stuff
that's either been released or it's new on my radar,
you know. But it's just not a lot of new
stuff that you know, I don't mean to sound like
an old man, but it's not a new a lot
of new stuff that rocks my world.

Speaker 6 (01:34:10):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:34:10):
We're we're a.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Band of a folk who it's somewhat frustrated.

Speaker 2 (01:34:16):
It's just harder to find it these days. There's way
too many options. Because at the same time we say that,
but then I also I'll hear y'all two talking about
like new R and B acts and stuff like that
that I've never heard of, and I'm just like, fuck,
how do I even find these people?

Speaker 7 (01:34:28):
Well?

Speaker 1 (01:34:28):
Yeah, I mean, I think now you have to have
the patience to you know, either scroll on the internet
or in my case, I have at least twenty music
snobs that I just peek on their Spotify and see
what they're listening to, and then I'll take that and
take That's whose salt was, you know what I mean?

Speaker 7 (01:34:47):
So I like salt.

Speaker 1 (01:34:49):
Yeah, it's quick, there's there's there's a few, a few left.

Speaker 6 (01:34:52):
I don't want to ask what year. So you're president
of a Mercury from what years?

Speaker 5 (01:34:59):
When did you?

Speaker 7 (01:35:00):
I was co president? Initially, I was a polygra. I
was a PolyGram during the wing from nineteen eighty six
to nineteen eighty eight, and then I became co president
of Mercury from nineteen eighty eight till nineteen ninety with
a guy called Mike Bone, and then I became the
sole president from nineteen ninety till I left to nineteen
ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (01:35:19):
Oh wow, Okay, it was a run.

Speaker 6 (01:35:22):
So in terms of I wanted to know with hip hop,
looking back on it now, like Murcury was always a
label with hip hop. I mean, y'all had black sheet
you know what I'm saying. You had like elous scratch, you.

Speaker 7 (01:35:34):
Know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (01:35:35):
Like y'all have records edog, you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (01:35:38):
And so for me, it seems like Mercury was one
of the first labels that I in retrospect. Now, they
y'all had like records and artists, but it was kind
of like unless that artists was attached to like black.

Speaker 5 (01:35:52):
Sheet, they were attached to Native tones, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (01:35:55):
But if you had artists that had great records, if
they weren't attached to another production company, like you know
what I'm saying, or like like you know what became
Rockefeller and murder In and all of those things, it
was kind of the beginning for me of losing faith.

Speaker 5 (01:36:12):
In major labels doing hip hop.

Speaker 6 (01:36:15):
Like if I just saw Columbia, I'm like that, if
I see you know, Rockefeller slash, I'm like, oh, okay.

Speaker 7 (01:36:22):
You know what I mean, it's like a good housekeeping
stamp over approval or the Quincy Jones reduction.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
Yeah, exactly, you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (01:36:28):
So, how did you as a labelhad how did push
in hip hop coming from like the pop background and
with Clive and stuff, How did you adapt to marketing
hip hop?

Speaker 7 (01:36:38):
You just get in where you can fit in, you know.
And if it was this case of finding stuff that
was attached to somebody else or something else, that's how
you did it, you know, because you knew there was
an uphill climb if you're starting it from scratch, because
at radio once again, the first question you're going to
ask is who are they down with?

Speaker 1 (01:36:55):
You know who?

Speaker 8 (01:36:56):
So it was that, you know, Similarly, there's like a
new phase of white rock music in the same time period,
right it's bon Jovi, def Leppard, Mellencamp, Tears for Fears, Kiss, Like,
what what made the diversity of what you were doing?
I think you started with R and B. Now it's
rock music like they were. How'd you feel about being
that guy that ushered that kind of stuff?

Speaker 7 (01:37:15):
Yeah, the h all those artists were already at the
label when I got there, you know, I inherited them
and it was interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
Did you have good relationships with most of them? Or
did you did you feel that there was resistance from
the rock people that maybe you don't understand them. I
know there was a situation where Sylvia roon at Elektra
with like Metallica, and there was a lot of disrespect
on their end because they're like, who does this black
woman know about that?

Speaker 7 (01:37:41):
Like I had my version of that, you know. One
point was sort of asked the question what does he
know about rock? And roll and I say a whole
lot more than you know about R and B.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
You know that my people created it, right.

Speaker 8 (01:37:53):
But there's a line here that says John Mellencamp being difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:37:57):
I'm sure there's a story there. John's also an essentric.
I think all artists are centric, So you know, I.

Speaker 7 (01:38:12):
Liked him, but he's he definitely what's the Q tip
line record? Yeah, John definitely read that book and then
had had suspicion of everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:38:25):
Everybody record company is an idiot, you know, and uh
and you know, and he was successful though he was,
but he just had you know, everything was were you
the brain chow behind him?

Speaker 7 (01:38:37):
What is.

Speaker 1 (01:38:39):
Tim? Tim will be our new words a lot?

Speaker 7 (01:38:46):
Tim White? Timothy White who used to be the editor
of Billboard. Tim and I were pretty friendly, and he
was one of John's closest friends. And I knew that
if I pitched John directly, here's an idea I have
for a duet, But he was fuck you. So Tim
calls me at one point and says we're having a conversation.
He goes, I'm trying to help John make some sense
to this next record. He said, what do you think?

(01:39:07):
I said, Well, a cover might be a cool idea.
I covered it day he goes let's got it, I said,
Michelle and na Ocello, she was the girl of the moment,
and so I said, John, you know it's satisfied his
Negro Jane and so.

Speaker 1 (01:39:21):
Hey, this is once play a little Ricorvette at a
walk man like to his audience, like back in eighty two.

Speaker 7 (01:39:28):
And so yeah, Tim basically with the John So here's
an idea, but mine and John Levan Morrison, so it's cool.
Then he did it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
I was at I was at a Michelle's show at
the Blue Note and some poor soul in the back
was like shouted it out. I was like, how was
the response?

Speaker 6 (01:39:49):
She laughed, Okay, oh that ass How involving you and
the creation of Vanessa's The Comfort Zone album one.

Speaker 1 (01:39:57):
Hundred percent okay? Producer you work with on it?

Speaker 5 (01:40:00):
Keith Thomas.

Speaker 7 (01:40:01):
Yeah, Keith, Yeah, man, Like, how did that?

Speaker 6 (01:40:03):
Because was my favorite song on that album again, Goodbye
that was by mc knights comes in at the end.

Speaker 7 (01:40:14):
That was the Yeah, Keith Thomas, because I really like
the B, B and C C record I'm Lost Without You.

Speaker 8 (01:40:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:40:23):
And then Keith had produced that record, wrote and produced
that record, and uh, Keith was kind of Christian David Foster,
you know, that was the vibe, you know. And when
when the publishing person played me save the Best for
Last and I said yeah, and I played for v
and she dug it. I said, who's the right person
to produce that? Foster would be great to do it,
but I know he won't. But Uh, Keith Thomas. I

(01:40:44):
called Keith Scott. Folks who was in our capit on
those days were front on you. Everybody fronted up.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
Dreaming was a proven hit by the folks. Folks fronted, yeah,
she had to do it again to prove it.

Speaker 7 (01:40:57):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
Goddamn.

Speaker 7 (01:40:59):
Keith respect called Keith and and they and they, and
he said, yeah, I'm down. The funny part about it
is Keith's production assistant had sent me a cassette of
just ideas that he had and then left out to
two songs that Keith thought had come to me he
thought it passed on. One of them was Baby Baby,
the Amy Grant record, and the other was the song
that was this big Selena hit. So that's that's the

(01:41:20):
Keith Thomas story. You know, Keith, Keith, Keith was a
good dude.

Speaker 5 (01:41:23):
And how was it Because another one of your hip
hop I dimond d. He had what you involve.

Speaker 7 (01:41:30):
We had a deal with I can't remember the name
of the label, Mistry Chemistry Records, Chemistry Records, a guy
called Brian Chen. Brian was the dance dance music editor
Billboard for a long time. And and Brian had a
partner whose name escapes me right now. But they did,
they did, They had chemistry. Eto Ge was theirs.

Speaker 1 (01:41:48):
Yeah, a few things, diamond D Yeah, so yeah, can
you please tell us the girlfriend's story?

Speaker 7 (01:42:00):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
Sure?

Speaker 7 (01:42:02):
So nineteen eighty seven, eighty six, eighty seven, I'm working
with Vanessa on her first record, so we're trying to
make some sense of who would produce, who would work
with on that record. And I knew these two guys
from Cincinnati at the time, called Kenny Edmunds and Antonio Reid.
I had met them because when I was working for Quincy,

(01:42:24):
there was a local street producer entrepreneur, a guy called
Pablo Davis in the Cincinnati, Columbus, Ohio area, and Pablo
turned me onto the Callaway Brothers then and also and
he was looking after Kenny. Kenny and Antonio they were
just becoming La and Babyface. They hadn't gotten on yet,

(01:42:44):
and they came by my office, had Vanessa go by
their place and they worked. She worked with him on
some songs and they gave her a song called Girlfriend,
which was great. I forget who was singing the lead
on the demo, and I've heard it, so this smash.
I got to have this record, and I thought we'd
made a deal. We played let's make a deal, and

(01:43:06):
v was she was pregnant with her first child at
that point. And I guess truth of the matter is
cut to the end, Pebbles was the perfect person for
it because she had the attitude. She was that persona.
Vanessa's not that persona.

Speaker 11 (01:43:19):
But it was tried with the yeah, yeah, the right
stuff was a little bomb squatted out and yeah and
and the second single, uh from the cumber Zone.

Speaker 7 (01:43:30):
Album, Yeah, running back to you, right, yeah, so attitude anyway, So,
like I said, I thought it had made a deal
for these like four songs on the tape, that we
wanted them all and her girlfriend was one of them.
And at the last minute, right when I thought it
was time for us to get started, l A Baiales,
he said, He said, I can't fuck with you on

(01:43:51):
this recommend. You know, I guess Lowell that he played
him for Lowell and Lil you know Lowland Jerrell and
they you know, they loved him, loved it. And then
you know, threw money I made and Offrey couldn't refuse,
and you know I got left ass out. So yeah,
I wasn't. I was, you know, it was it was.
It was nearly an an R wars, you know, because
I was like, I want to beat this brother's ass.

(01:44:13):
Thank you many. Yeah. So so what do you feel
from Afar from CET three or two of the Bleachers?

Speaker 1 (01:44:22):
Yes, exactly. Do you have hope that sort of the
thing that And again, I know this is such a
subjective question because I'm certain that there's some fourteen year
old that's in their feelings at a Billie Eilish show
that you know, probably the same way your dad's looking

(01:44:44):
at Sli the family Stone, like what the hell is this?
Like I knew Billy Holliday, But in your mind, do
you think that there will be an itch that gets
scratched as far as your relationship to music and and
what brought you to it?

Speaker 7 (01:45:03):
I don't know, Or is it just in your kid's
hands now is my kid's hands now? Because there's a
certain aspect of it that I wonder that, you know,
if the tree falls in the forest, does anybody hear it?
You know, I'm wondering at times that if whatever that
next big flash point is, if it happens, William Bay
really how much William Bay really give a fuck? And
the give a fuck factor is decidedly different now in

(01:45:25):
terms of what that impact is. You know, it's the
because there's so many options, you.

Speaker 1 (01:45:31):
Know, you know, this is probably this is this is
the episode that I wish. The Faith Newman episode was
like I feel satisfied. I always always tease her about like,
you know, you made the worst Q less.

Speaker 7 (01:45:48):
It's just the Monica episode was the bomb.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
That's your favorite's favorite QL episode so far.

Speaker 7 (01:45:56):
Bootsy was cool.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
That was great.

Speaker 7 (01:45:58):
Monica was cool.

Speaker 1 (01:45:59):
You're gonna love the Robert Townsend episode. That is like
Robert Towns in it. In my opinion, has put the
Family Stand Jimmy Jam was first.

Speaker 7 (01:46:09):
Yeah, Jam was great. That was great.

Speaker 1 (01:46:11):
But then for me, the Family Stand episode was the
Jimmy Jam episode with humor and a lot of salacious,
unnecessary and are slashing I pray that Sylvia comes on
the show eventually, and then Robert. I don't know the
Robert Towns's episode was an unexpected nice surprise. But no,

(01:46:34):
this is equally satisfied. Man, I learned so much today,
man can reach.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
One roots question. Yes, So in retrospect, as you were
watching this ship go by without you, did you ever
have any moments where you were like, man, if I
only able to sign with me, I would have did
da d H. I would have been had them and
so and so.

Speaker 1 (01:46:50):
And so someone told you that five minutes after this episode.

Speaker 7 (01:46:55):
For us, for me my roots moment because once again
I wasn't as invested at the time when you were
showcasing it was really Lisa and Kenyata and I would
have jumped on board had you know, had we gotten
the mid green lighted the deal, So I would have
jumped on board to give you a little sidebar to
digress them. But how the whole thing went down when
you know a couple of names were spelled wrong. Yes,

(01:47:17):
that ended up being a huge moment for us inside
the label because a PolyGram At that time, all business
affairs was kind of done centrally out of corporate and
the label. Individual labels didn't have their own business affairs people,
and I made so much fucking noise.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
About that I fired fired somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:47:32):
Yeah, well I.

Speaker 7 (01:47:33):
Didn't fire the person, but one of the business fairs persons.
And ultimately what it led to was me getting my
own business fairs person inside of the company, which is
a woman called Julie Swiddler and Swiddler's Julie's now they
had of business affairs and has been for the last
ten years at Sony globally.

Speaker 1 (01:47:49):
So yeah, and she crossed every team dot every idea,
right exactly. So I was drugg that we lost you.

Speaker 7 (01:47:55):
But answer your question, what really resonated with me was
when you got went to England, because I was dealing
with Giles a lot in those days. And then also
that how you know when you initially blew up quote
unquote blew up. I met a couple of my friend's kids,
white who were college students in the East, were he

(01:48:17):
have you.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
Heard ever heard of the roots red?

Speaker 7 (01:48:19):
I'm pretty sure that was me, So yeah, there's a
lot of that. I was like, I loved what you
guys were generating it on your own, because I don't
think it was being marketed that.

Speaker 1 (01:48:29):
Now, Wendy Goldstein did what was allowed at the time.
But you know, it's almost like literally the second we signed,
then the crisis started happening. No more Nirvana, no more Aerosmith,
no more you know, guns and Roses. And then it's like, ah,
we should have went to the PolyGram.

Speaker 7 (01:48:44):
Maybe I got a couple of things here.

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
Yes, Yes, he's presenting me with records. Yeah, whoa, Okay,
he explaining what this is.

Speaker 7 (01:48:55):
Yes, speak to ship. It's a seventy eight of Wow
the Hearts, Wow on chests with your racial chests, logan.

Speaker 1 (01:49:08):
His dad's group, Wow on chest chests.

Speaker 2 (01:49:11):
Records, don't cry.

Speaker 1 (01:49:17):
Up.

Speaker 5 (01:49:17):
Whatever you need to do it have your moment.

Speaker 7 (01:49:21):
That was That was That was an artifact that came
from my mom and dad. You know Pops. Pops didn't
give a funk about Duop, but apparently he likes your
dad's grew man because you had their record Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:49:34):
And it's a seventy eight. Do you have something to
play at seventy eight on?

Speaker 7 (01:49:38):
Like you.

Speaker 1 (01:49:40):
I had to frame this.

Speaker 7 (01:49:42):
That's what you do with that?

Speaker 5 (01:49:43):
Don't play that?

Speaker 1 (01:49:45):
I feel like it'll just like I'm so I'm beyond
grateful for this man. This is.

Speaker 7 (01:49:52):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:49:52):
I've never seen not a speechless guy.

Speaker 7 (01:49:55):
Ed made a speechless guy.

Speaker 1 (01:49:56):
Well done, man, that's real now. And oh man, even
Roy Calhoun's the girl around the corners on the beach.

Speaker 2 (01:50:03):
Oh shit, and what do you have?

Speaker 7 (01:50:09):
Well, wait a minute, look at the back of it,
and I'll read you the letter, because there's a.

Speaker 10 (01:50:16):
What is it?

Speaker 6 (01:50:17):
So?

Speaker 7 (01:50:17):
The legend is told that when Prince was initially doing
demos and shopping himself, he only made three demos to
send out. One was to go to the one was
to go to Warner Brothers. One was to go to Columbia.
And the lore has been A and M, but it
was Quincy Jones and and so I got this letter.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
I got this letter. You guys have to see this.

Speaker 7 (01:50:39):
I got this letter. This is like a year before
COVID from Owen Husney. Owen was Prince, the original managers
and old friend ed. Sorry, this is forty years later
in getting to you. You know how the mail is
these days. This is the early eight track demo before
me we made the original twenty four track demo that
got him signed to Warner Brothers. Your name is in

(01:50:59):
my hand and writing, and the rest is Prince you
can still make an offer to sign him if you
like what's on the tape. Hope all is well, Please
keep the secure as this is worth quite a bit
to collectors.

Speaker 1 (01:51:13):
Holy.

Speaker 5 (01:51:15):
Yeah, and there is someting wet and aces that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:19):
You know, you know, I mean, it's up with this
very stereo, very very very stereous.

Speaker 7 (01:51:27):
Prince Rogers Nelson Esquire.

Speaker 2 (01:51:29):
Right, this is why it's so important to know your
history and the players. And we gotta keep saying your name,
say your name, say your name, dude, go.

Speaker 1 (01:51:39):
To nice gift and for the rest of us, the first.

Speaker 2 (01:51:45):
Dominant, he wrote, Prince Nelson Esquire, Prince Nelson Esquire.

Speaker 1 (01:51:53):
That's hilarious, very stereo. He's a lawyer, man.

Speaker 5 (01:51:56):
That's so that's seventy How how is that? How you
think that pression is well.

Speaker 1 (01:52:02):
Tear drops came out and fifth fifty eight?

Speaker 5 (01:52:07):
Wow? Bro, yeah, holy you guys show the camera that
they got No.

Speaker 1 (01:52:10):
That's yeah, this this this came out in fifty eight,
so wow.

Speaker 5 (01:52:14):
And that's an original press and that's like.

Speaker 7 (01:52:16):
Yeah, yeah, you can say somebody played the ship out
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:22):
A yeah, Wow, that's amazing. Wow, this is I brought
a couple of why you signed? Did you sign Joe? Huh?
You signed Joe? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:52:36):
Anyone? He was signed?

Speaker 10 (01:52:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:52:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah he was.

Speaker 1 (01:52:39):
I had the first album, guy called Dave McPherson signed him. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:52:43):
Also, we didn't discuss the Jason's Lyrics soundtrack, perhaps one
of my favorite soundtracks time.

Speaker 1 (01:52:49):
It is that the way for whatever reason you.

Speaker 7 (01:52:56):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:52:58):
But that was so wow. This is your this is your.

Speaker 2 (01:53:02):
This is your Blackman unit wasn't.

Speaker 7 (01:53:06):
We can talk about that?

Speaker 1 (01:53:07):
Actually, wait a minute, did you take a stab at
di'angelo before you signed it?

Speaker 11 (01:53:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:53:15):
Gary?

Speaker 7 (01:53:16):
And then Joscelyn. Jocelyn was working for me in there
in those days too.

Speaker 1 (01:53:20):
Were you in the were you in the wait? Joscelyn
was shopping at the time or no.

Speaker 7 (01:53:25):
Joscelyn had a publishing company with me. I'd made we
made a deal called for Midnight Music and uh, when
Gary took a em I Jocelyn signed the publishing deal
had him and Gary. They weren't going to use you
will know for his album and George Jackson and Doug
mckenry were doing Jason's lyric and it brought me in.
I was music supervising it with him and I'd heard

(01:53:49):
you will know from Gary, and I said this would
be perfect for the for the for the soundtrack, given
the theme of the film and all that stuff and having,
you know, come from the sort of the Q world.
I came up with the idea of let's do it
as were the worldish kind of thing and called it
black bm you because that's what they're calling prisons at
that point, black Man University was, you know, because in
jail prisons called b U. And I said, let's call

(01:54:11):
it BMMU. And then I said black Men United, oh ship,
and then we.

Speaker 1 (01:54:15):
Did so then but you also did the same for
women for the Panther exactly. Well, I want to thank
you for coming on the show man. Thank you person.

Speaker 6 (01:54:27):
You've been by like some of my favorite records man,
like Amy, like you know, just from Vanessa Williams and
the Tony's you know, like if I saw your name
on it, I was like, okay, it's yeah, it's.

Speaker 7 (01:54:36):
Basically not for real.

Speaker 1 (01:54:37):
Man. Thank you for listening to The Quest Love Supreme
hosted by Amra cous loved Thomas, Why You, Saint, Clair Sugar,
Steve Mandell An unpaid Bill Sherman Executive Producers are a
mere Quest Love Thompson, Sean g and Brian Calton. Produced

(01:55:00):
by Britney, benjer Cousin, Jake Payne, Wah Sinkley, edited by
Alex Connolly, Produced by iHeart by Noel Brown and Mike John's.
Audio engineering by Graham Gibson.

Speaker 12 (01:55:16):
And iHeart Eli Studio. West Love Supreme is a production
of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:55:34):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Laiya St. Clair

Questlove

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