Erick Sermon Part 1

Erick Sermon and Questlove spoke for more than three hours in the closing days of 2024. In Part 1 of this QLS season finale, E-Double recalls the early days of EPMD, breaks down how Long Island fueled a rivalry with Eric B. & Rakim, and discusses where the melodic Funk in his music comes from. This conversation touches on classic songs by Erick and his group, Redman, Stezo, and so much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Here we Go, Here we go, Ladies and gentlemen, we
are closing out. Are in twenty twenty four season, our
abundant season of Quest Love Supreme. We've had some really
really amazing conversation, especially with a lot of my hip

(00:27):
hop peers this year alone, you know, talking to the
B Minors and the Rizza at Rock and the BEASTI Boys,
Pete Rock and Common Foreign Exchange and Jonathan Schecter of
The Source, to name a few.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
And I will say that today is no.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Exception in terms of us giving flowers to hip hop Royalty.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
What can I say?

Speaker 2 (00:51):
All the episodes of Quest Love Supreme are long overdue,
but this, more than any, is really really really overdue.
I will really go out on a limb and say
that as a producer.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
All right, let me put it this way.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
You know, like every time I'm telling you guys in
Questlove Supreme world that the pioneer always gets overlooked and
it's the person that comes in second that kind of
gets all the credit. I will say that our guest
today is probably the first person I thought about in

(01:27):
terms of pure production innovation.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
That is so accessible and so effective that.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
He never truly ever gets the credit that he deserves
for a lot of the ideas that he first started
doing in hip hop that we now just take for granted,
not to mention. As I said in the ad Rock episode,
you know, as Guru said, is mostly the voice our
guest today has probably one of my favorite all time voices.

(02:02):
At a time of most people, especially in the classic era,
were yelling like run brought in the yelling era. Is
something to me about monotone sinister delivery that to me
is more scarier than you're like your hardcore delivery, or
you're like hyped up, loudest person in the room, like

(02:23):
the person that says it low key and they mean business.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
That person scares you.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
The silent person scares you more than the person that's
on you to death. There's so much we can say,
but I just got to say that, you know, this
is long overdue. He's a founder member of one of
the best rap duos of all time, ep m D,
member of Death Squad. He's producer for himself, Redman, Keith Murray,

(02:51):
Ll Tupot, Luke, Chris black Street, and on It's about
time we had a conversation with the with the green
eyed You know what I'm saying, give it up for
the one and only Eric Sermon and aka Erico NASA's.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I thought he had a long intro.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh dog, I'm the king of long intest so you
are the You just killed.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
Him like that like that. It's like, yo, damn, that
is crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
But dude, there's people out there that take notice. They
take notice. Look, I have so many questions that ask you,
and you know, this is one of the joys of
doing one on one sessions that you know, but I'm
just gonna kind of rapid fire all the things I
ever wanted to ask you.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Of course, I'll start from the beginning. Tell us where
you were born. Brother.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
I was born in base show A, Long Island, which
is the same hospital lokuj was born in, which is
Southside Hospital.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Word.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Okay, so you're from Long Island, right, from Long Island.
Most rappers like migrated to Long Island, but you were
born there.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, born Long Island.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yes, it's just like the met the man's and the
priories and people that don't want to kind of say,
but they are Long Islanders.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
I did not know that they were born in Long Island.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yes, yes, and Todd Smith too, he said he migrated
too Queens but he was born in Long Island.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
But yeah, but we After that, I.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
Went to Hawaian Dance, which is where my mom and
them grew up after they came from Florida, which is
where Rock Kim is from. So my mother used to
hang out with Rock Kim's older brothers and sisters.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
This is a crazy, crazy story, like.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
Not knowing that pretty soon HUDs someha's become famous and
Rock Kim would become famous. So then I moved from
near to a town called Brentwood. Is where I learned
all my stuff from. I learned how to rap, I
learned how to break dance, I learned how to just.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Know what hip hop was, graffiti.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
All that stuff came from a town called Brentwood, which
is where pretty soon I ended up meeting Parish Act.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
What was your first musical memory in life?

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, it got to be with my dad.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Dad, like any other family shoe that played so many records.
My dad was a can't really call him a collector
though too though quest it was like he just had
every record, every album was sitting in front of this,
you know, when backed up against the speaker or or
against whatever the record player was, so all the records
was out there. That was my first experience of him
just playing records back to back to back to back.

(05:21):
And that's how my first introduction to to getting to
being so involved knowing what music sound.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Like, what kind of records was he was he playing?

Speaker 4 (05:29):
Oh man, uh, he was playing everything from Teddy penny
Grass to Blue Magic, all the way down to the Whispers,
to the Temptations, to Howl, Melvin the Blue Nose.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
That was his favorite group, you know, the the Spinners.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
And then after that he started going into Funkadelic in
the Parliament of course, and you know, and and all
the stuff to Rick James. So it started he had
a bass of music. But they started with the seventies first,
then it started going into you know, the late seventies.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
So he was just a music lover. He wasn't a
DJ or anything music.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
They bought albums and bring them home and played them.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
What did your parents do for a living? What did
your household look like growing up?

Speaker 4 (06:06):
My parents worked for the mentally challenged children for like
over twenty five years.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Do you have a siblings. Are you the only child
or do you have.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Two sisters two below me, one two years below me,
in one four years below me.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, some of my favorite talent in hip hop came
from Long Island. Yet I always wondered what the other
Burroughs were doing at the time when hip hop was
developing in the Bronx. Was it as fruitful in the

(06:40):
other boroughs like Queens Brooklyn, Staten Island?

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Right?

Speaker 1 (06:44):
So what was your first hip hop experience?

Speaker 3 (06:47):
I think again, in the neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
The neighborhood had house parties and we had these days
and almost because we I lived in a town called
Regis Park, so it had like it was like a
thirteen block radius, but out of the six blocks it
was DJ's. Out of the sixth block, it was MC's.
Like I'm telling you, if people would see where I
came from, if you didn't know about the Bronx, though,

(07:10):
you would think, yo, this way hip hop back because
we had everything. And when I tell you, everybody was nice,
well my eyes, because whoever I looked at it was
all nice on the set and all nice rhyming and breakdancing.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Because a lot of Long Island.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
Kids so too, went went to go to the city
to go do breakdancing contests with the big breakdancers back then.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
So but again that happened to be the neighborhood that.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
That was my first hip hop experience, maybe at twelve
years old, sneaking out the window to a house party
around the corner.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
And they were MC's and DJ oh.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Hell yeah, hell yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
I mean we had some kids, anybody know, a guy
named Bergermeister, a kid named Frank B, a guy named
a Z, a guy named Bourn.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
You know, it was the five per center born c
Asiatic was there. It was all all five percent names.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Did you ever cross paths with any other notable figures
of hip hop? Like I always hear Biz story or yeah,
the first one is Biz.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
Definitely that that that's it's gonna always be Biz. Biz
came to my junior high school in a lunch room.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Did he go to that school?

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Because everything No, everybody from Long Island says the same thing.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Biz came to my school. But yet Biz never went
to that school.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
Never went there. They just loved him. People might make
a joke though and say, yo, is he Jesus Christ
or not?

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Because he had no call, But He was at every function.
He was at every town. He was at everything that
went on.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
When you hear the stories that oh yo llo yeah,
will say, yeah, Biz got me at rock him. Oh yeah,
Bis took me to such and such. Oh yeah, such,
Biz took me to He was everywhere and didn't have
a call, but he took the train and managed to
be everywhere. He left the places of Long Island where
I'm like, yo, Bis isn't from there. No, he was,
he said for three years or he was over I'm like, no,

(09:02):
he's from no man, he was because he lived next
to my DJ, Diamond J on the same block on
Noble Street.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
That Noble Street when you hear him in the Record
Street block from Diamond Okay, and Diamond Schelle was his brother.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
So again they lived on that block. But he's also
saying that he lived in Careham. He lived in over
here in Patchog. He lived because his printerval was in Patchog.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
I mean the way. So I'm like, and then all
of a sudden you're in Jersey, and then.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
You and brooks At obviously wear more every day, and
then and then you go to Baltimore and spend the
rest of your life there. So yeah, bizmal Key was
the first one before I got famous. Then of course
Long Island. You know Chuck D. You know, you start going,
then you start seeing E. P. M. D rock Him
and then Daylight so and then please the new school.

(09:52):
I mean, I'm not hating, but if you take Long
Island out the mix.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
All my favorite acts come from Long Island. You don't
have to tell me.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
To Then you got JBC Force, Keith Murray, k Solo.
Now you got to look at it's you know what
I'm saying, it's a problem.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
How often would you go to the city? Was there
ever need to go.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
To Manhattan or Harlem or any of those other spots
I'm talking free EPMD. I'm just talking about like before
you even had a record deal, Like was most of
your life just in Long Island?

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Qus, you're the first one that ever asked that question
in life, And that's a dupe question. If I never
got famous, I don't know if I were have.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Seen the city.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
I was already seeing Brooklyn because my family is from
ping Houses, so I was already in ping Houses in
East New York all the time. But as far as
me seeing again, when I went to the Parlom and
I parked outside.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
I called my mother to God.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
Visited as of man's black people everywhere, we don't have
that Long Island is that birth Puerto Rican white and
black right ques. I pulled over and I parked, and
my Samura Suzuki, and I just stood there like this
looking around.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
I saw Aaron Hall. I said, Aaron coming for some
quick second. So Aaron came over.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
He went to another bar, of course, the street from
the Apollo right, and and but I saw a lot
of people. But I just saw so many black folks.
And I don't think that I would have been able
to see that because there was no need for me
to go to the city, being from Long Island.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Long Island was his own place.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
What was it like?

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Like what we knew of Long Island was of course
like Amityville Horror or like it was these suburbs. It
wasn't anything close to what the Bronx looked like in
wild Style or anything like. So what was a typical
day like as a teenager in Long Island?

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Not the same?

Speaker 4 (11:51):
Like and so far as like do you have a
look at Compton and watch some stuff with palm trees
and the whole and the same thing, So like, why
can make that line?

Speaker 3 (11:58):
They where you from? Us? Where you at?

Speaker 4 (12:00):
The whole time was the fact that we still had
the same drama, still had games, We still had had
the competation between Puerto Ricans and blacks and white and black.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
It's the same. We had the same thing. It was
like before.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Keith Murray l D came, game came, it was Barcelona,
which was Puerto Ricans and these guys. Wasn't happening. This
is what Brentwood was. Brentwood was Puerto Rican, black and white.
It was a mixture. So that's how we lived. So
so we was all friends too. That was in school
and me and Parish. I don't know if you've heard
this before. We had two high schools next to each other.

(12:35):
So I went to Ross, he went to Syland on
the same property. It was kind of it was. It
was weird, but nobody never seen two high schools next
next to each other. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Got it?

Speaker 2 (12:47):
What was your entry into being in hip hop? Did
you start out as a DJ? Were you trying to
MC like?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
So it's funny you say that first of all came
from soul training.

Speaker 4 (12:57):
Shallamar had this kid in there that was called the
pop a Long Kid, so I took his name. I
don't know if anybody I know people. I'm taking y'all
back though, too. Yes, inside Shallamar. The other member was
the ill Popper, so I took his name. I began
doing that. All of a sudden, my mom comes home

(13:18):
from her job with two twelve inches okay, apache with
the green label right.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Right, and she brung home rappers a light okay.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
And it changed everything for me.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
Then my cousin down the street, since there was so
many DJs, he bought turntables, so I was able to
have that too. So I was he would bring home
Fat Boys and and bring home the new mally Mall,
bring home the Fantastic for the Phillis for.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
He would bring home all these new records, uh.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
And so, and I used to just be spinning them.
So but while I'm spinning them, of course, the Fat
Boys had me like. I was just like, well, these
guys are just razy. All of a sudden, well, me
and Paris was getting ready to get on. I did
this give you the one thing We drove to the
city to go buy to go buy sucking seeds?

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Really, yes, there was no place in Long Island too,
did they didn't have that record?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
What did you attend any like spectrum city parties?

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Like those parties at Hank Shockley and Chuck de And
and Keith Shackley used to throw in Long Island at all.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
I did not know about none of them until I
got on tour with them.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
I have no clue about. All I know was about
my section.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
We just called all right, so tell me how you
met Paris Smith?

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Okay, well, but where I was at and we just parked.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
The house that we was written had got rat infested,
like I mean, they was coming from out of nowhere.
I mean it was like some city you see on
Ben or the movie like that. So and we couldn't
control it, and the landlord was acting like she didn't
want to fix it right, So my mom's called her
mother and Grandma was like, okay, well, y'all come over

(15:12):
here then, So we ended up staying there while mommy
stacked her paper up. So at the bus stop I
saw a Parish because he's on the next block. I
moved to Belgrave, he's on Abingdon. So I see him
at the bus stop and he didn't know me, and
he snapped on me on the second day because you know,

(15:33):
I had an the tiger on, I had the leaves on,
but I had.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
The wrong pumas.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
The pumas was invaders and not baskets because they didn't
have the hose around the logo, so you know they
was fake because because basket puomers are the real ones
with the holes around it. Mine didn't have no hose
around the logo and they wasn't baskets.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
So before it was one of before it was like
one of those.

Speaker 4 (15:59):
He did it first back then, so he snapped on me,
so I was like, oh So I was like, oh, okay,
you got jokes.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
You got jokes.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
So after that he found out where I was from.
See where I'm from. When it comes to Long Island,
people know about Reese's Park.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
What was it about it?

Speaker 4 (16:18):
It was the coacher and it was the people over
there who got busy. Everybody in there right now have
went to prison or did some time or with like
stick up boys or whatever.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
Where I'm from is no joke.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
So that point of town me coming over there made
me cool, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (16:34):
Even though he knew them people.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
Because his sisters knew them, and his older brothers knew
who they were too. So once you knew where I
was from, it made me cool. And then I said, yo,
I raped, and that was it. He's like, yo, let
me hear you rap. So when you hear Jane, Jane
was one of my first raps I had. I had
that when I was when I was twelve years old.

(16:56):
What So I ended up taking Jane with me when
I met him at fourteen. And I had a burnoud
get story the one who who who shout tried to
train along out right. So I had those two stories.
So I roped that story for him all of a sudden.
Parents used to have me go to his school and
rap for his boys, like yo, man, check out, check out.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
This kid boom boom.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Because Powers never rhymed the DJ, he never rapped what
until he met me?

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Okay, So this is what I find odd one.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
This is the second story of a legendary duo whose
origins start with ranking on each other. Because before Prodigy
passed away, he told the story that basically that he
realized Havoc and his boys were about to rob him,

(17:51):
you know, on like the first week of school or something.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
They were plotting on robbing him and then.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I'm out, like last minute, like they decided not to
like they they were going to start out as enemies,
but then they became boys.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
So it's funny that that's how you two started.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
I don't know it.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
There.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
You said that your original MC name was going to
be Populong Kid.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Explain to me the evolution of EPMD, because y'all have
spelled it so many crazy ways before you just finally
decided on your actual name.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
But what was your original name? Your MC name?

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Yeah, but the popagon Kill was my dancing name. I
didn't have the MC name yet. When e pm D
was getting put together, I used Eric sermon inside my rhymes,
and when I could walk through the crowd and I
can see you has turned, I hear voices saying that's
everic sermon.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I didn't have that.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
So then when you got to chill, came to the
E double E. Don't know where that came from. I
think it came from where the name was spelled. At first,
it was spelled E P E E M D right e.
So it was spelled but Paris used to be like,
I'm the P double E M D E E. So

(19:11):
I must have took it from him, like, okay, well
you're the P double.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
I'm the E double E.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Then, even though you weren't in the E double, even
though I don't know.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
What the E double was stand for because I don't.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
Again, it's not like MC Breed where he could say
there's two e's and breed.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
So he was I'm the E double.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
I proclaimed my name, even though I got on him
about that too when I first met him.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
I'm like, what, But how did Parish get into rocking then?
If he didn't start out as an MC?

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Because Paris thought I was dope, So he figured that
with me, we can go and see you and make
a record.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
See the way I rhymed and my list and everything
like that.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
Again, like everybody else who heard it was like, yo,
it's it's it got an l flow.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
But see my DJ Diamond. When and he first heard
my melody, he was like, Eric, is some dude named
rock Wind that sound like you?

Speaker 4 (20:07):
He we didn't call him rock Hemra, it was rock Wind.
So when he came to school he said, Yo, some
kid named rock Wind is out. Boom boom boom. The
next day on the radio station, mister Red Alert I
heard it, you know, termed the base take out my
melody and now to God, I'm letting nags be born
under my name aka I. So so I'm like yo,
he rhymes slow too like men do wack give but

(20:31):
doug a ball on the yell. So so Paris felt too,
and we heard something on Red Alert that wasn't dope
and we were like many he playing that we can
go into last.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Paris comes from a group called the Rock Squad, which
was him k Solo and his brother, where Paris was
the DJ.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
So he kind of knew how to make a record
kind of by watching his brother. So we went to
the same studio, Charlie Murrauder that did his brother's group
that also did Den'll Worry Morgan, I do anything for you.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
It's done that studio too.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Oh okay, okay okay.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Then eventually Red Man thatss effects. Everything was done at Charlie.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Why did you decide to come in flat footed and monitor?
To me? Which is the greatest shit ever? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (21:21):
I think that me and Paris the slow flow like
Rock Kim.

Speaker 4 (21:25):
I was already doing it, but when I heard Rock Kim,
it made me be like, yo, we can Rhyme'm like this,
don't forget.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
You can barely understand me anyway, So if I don't
talk it.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
It's gonna be really hard to hear me. So that
Quesson's easy. I had no choice, so you had to
see the employees of a year. Yeah, we're back to work.
I get time or all the raptors pass because I
had to. But you didn't hear the words come out
without the list. See now, I didn't make my list
go away when I got older. I got older, and

(21:58):
this is how I started talking. So inside the rhyme,
there's nothing I can do with it. I was wondering too,
Why am not being able to listen to words? Why
is maythan Biggie and them?

Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yo?

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Somebody told me that Puffy told Mace listen sound like
Eric Sermon, and that came from mad people, and people
were like, listen. And then when I was doing Mary J.
Blige upstairs and Hip Factory, I went to go see
Biggie and b said, Yo, take it out, sir, Yo.
I want to let you know that on my new album,
I'm gonna be singing like you.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
It's what you mean. All of a sudden, hypnotized comes
out these stories, you know.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
I mean, I would never cap one with nobody, but again,
when I hear these things, I'd be like yo.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
So this was a method that people was trying to do.
Like you liked. You liked it, but quest I didn't
do it on purpose. But what I did do.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Knowing that you're right, Leo Cohen thought, Redman sound like me, right,
and I'm like real, he said, no, it ain't how
the rhyming, it's the tone. So me having Reggie around me,
of course it's gonna affect me, right, Not that you
had to, because when I did watch your nugget on
his album, I was still me. But once Reggie started

(23:14):
becoming Reggie, and then I did hit and Switches right,
because Reggie came to Atlanta and said, Yo, son, yo,
I'm not really feeling this stuff you play me because
I was on some some other I was mad comfortable.
This is not that and this, and I didn't even
have hit switches, stay real, none of that stuff hostile,

(23:36):
none of it. So now he tells me too, So
that's what happened to me. Now you bring something up,
damn it, Reggie. Reggie was like, yo, man, you solo,
now you know what's up. So now it's Mike check.
Here I go again, check me out. But I'm over
here now. And then now you have the onyx and

(23:59):
all this stuff coming that and this, and then you
got Reggie. Oh my god, you know Mike check your repman,
get off that Mike check. I could get so all
of this is going. I'm watching the Cadenus. I'm Washington.
All of a sudden, Hey Solo brings me this kid
of the block who's oh yea yoyo, my name is

(24:20):
keeping my boom boom. And I was like, check this boot,
part of the plage in your chest, act like arm
and leg when I come through, got your cranium. I'm like,
so even though I might want to do this, it's
got to be over here. And that's I think what
probably happened. But just like music has summer every sermon.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yes, yes, yes, my life.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
I will also say that you know, it wasn't often,
especially back in eighty eight, where you would see a
summit meeting of frus from opposite sides of the coast
or you know, wherever they were from, like normally birds

(25:02):
of a feather flocked together, and seeing NWA in the
big paypack video.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
It was like such a big deal for us.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Like yo EPMD knows NWA like craz That's how me
and Reek were like watching your TV reps like you
are a g Funk pioneer that never got the credit,
and you are also a neo soul pioneer that never
got the credit. But do you think that because of

(25:34):
the sort of the thick texture of your production for
those like first two epm D records where like the
zap claps for like like that spoke to the West
Coast more than any more than Public Enemy could have
because it's touring.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
Don't forget this, it's touring, you know. So so you
know that was the LA was one of my biggest
markets because the way they thought me. And when you
here Snoop telling the story, Snoop said, he drove to
Britwood looking for me in Parish, right because they don't
forget this in Britwood in California. So he's so he's
in Britwood thinking that we're from the suburbs.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Oh okay, okay, So.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
He told the story a couple of times.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
But anyway, being on tour, but me and Cube was tight,
like like I had a seven roses Zukie. When I
went to Laq picked me up, he had seven rosa Zukie,
you know. And again at the end of the day,
me and Dre was two people that was on both
sides stample in Parliament.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Don't forget them.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
He was doing it first in eighty seven before me
and Parish even came out.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
It wasn't like, okay, people credit me.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
Like if you talk to dub C, he has say yo,
I got to get the the West Coast hat to
Eric sermon because.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
They showed us how to rap on this music.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
So while we was playing Roger, they was rhyming on Roja.
While we was playing Riding High, they were rapping on
Riding High. So all the stuff that they hearing on
the way that Me and Paris did the Funk records
were different than what they was doing it, so it
kind of gave them a blueprint. If you hear people talk,

(27:16):
they say Dre enhanced the stuff I did by playing live.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
So if you hear woman to woman.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
But then be bet, I just sampled it right. He
did kind of fun your Love and we played them
now it's bigger so and then once EPMD broke up,
he was able to go to Roger too, you know,
things of that nature.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
How are you developing your production skills and your rhyming
skills in eighty seven in time for like your debut record,
because you know, like how long did the epm D
exist before you guys actually got strictly business to the public.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
Yeah, see the ones that fast. The one thing that
you that we didn't know. We didn't know what the
producer was. We thought every record you heard was done
by that person.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
It's not crazy.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
So we're doing what we think we're supposed to be doing.
We didn't know about we was producers. We never heard
that word. We just wanted to make a record. So
we took the break beachs that we had that parents
had at the DJ, took records from each other houses,
the whole nine, and that's how formulated epm D. You know,
we made what was in front of us, not knowing
what we were doing.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
Don't forget. We didn't know how to make a chorus.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
So will Stocklove called the Autumn two all your two
came and said, let me get that seven minutes to
Funk record because we just had the record looping. So
when it's my thing, we said it's my thing, there's
nothing there, so Teddy Ted said give me and he said,
give me that record. So he found that tim boom,
tim boom, and then that fam f be so called

(28:58):
me how to format a chorus. I would never even
known how to due a chorus or format. It was
caught to me by the author two.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
So there was a version of It's My Thing that
didn't have no version of.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
This report record came out.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
The label was telling us that we needed to have
a chorus and to know the chorus, get ready to
come in?

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Got it okay?

Speaker 4 (29:20):
Because all we had was it It's my thing louder.
All we had was that we didn't have the drum
roll and the the horn to be like the boy
can drop down and come back to the raps.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
We end up.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
You had to split it up so there's a chorus
and then there's a part you uy on. And once
we learned that, I went nuts, did and I started
doing get down, Get down. Time keeps on slipping. So
now I was just knowing what to do now. And
then when the thing came out, I was like, to
what you're saying, Now we're in it.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Now you're not a format of song. I get it
so right before your album comes out. So let's go
here back in eighty seven, and it's thing came out
in eighty seven, correct.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Eighty seven November. Yes, So in your.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Mind, what does hip hop success look like like?

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Ah, we made it.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Up on the radio.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
And one night we hear seven as the Funk coming on.
But there's no no rhymeen, just whether to spend the record.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
All of a sudden, the next weekend we hear the
helicopters quest so so so we know it's us because
the helicopters was coming on. And don't forget, they didn't
have two way back then, so every phone line is busy.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
That's when you know you made it. When you on
the radio.

Speaker 4 (30:43):
That's what we wanted to be on the radio, know
about no money, no advances, who jerking?

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Who? Whatever is the record gonna be on the radio?

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Wait, you brought up something that I gotta ask you
a question about. So my first rap show I ever
saw it was a free rap show that EPMD did
in Philadelphia at Penn's landing.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Oh wait, wait, wait, hold up, okay, wait, I tell
the story all the time. Speaking of helicopters because me.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
And Paris jump out the limo too early, and okay,
three thousand kids chased us until we had to jump
over a twelve foot gate. I felt like Michael Jackson,
I put the mother was born. I've never seen that before.
Billy chased us like we was Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yes, yes, Doug, I know this.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Pen's like.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
My question was, do you remember that show? I don't
think you will remember it.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
I thought me and Pete teller every time because we
never had that You had experienced before of people running
it like that, but not like that? Did that thing
was on someone you see one of them boy band
groups men like yo. We had to run and there
was a kid running.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, I'm a witness to that. Wait, but didn't you
guys land in a helicopter?

Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yes, whose idea was that.

Speaker 4 (32:10):
It wasn't because we had no other way to get
there to make it in time.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
How this is before bawling was even thought about, Like,
you don't understand how impressionable.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Now here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Tarika and I didn't know each other, you know what
I mean, but we were both at that show and
seeing no way Well believe it or not. We were
actually in the same high school, but two and two
didn't equal four yet, you know what I'm saying. He
was there and I was there, but we didn't know
each other like that, even though we were in school together.

(32:46):
But we talked about it later about being at pens
Landing and you don't understand like being sixteen seeing YouTube
get out of a hellic copter, like I thought it
was this normal ship because.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
You know, nobody's gonna believe it even if you tell
the story people like nau Is capping there's no dude.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well number one run DMC use the helicopter and it's
tricky video, yes, and then you had the helicopter sound
at the beginning of It's my thing, right, So I
just thought, oh, on your rider, y'all gotta always arrive
wherever y'all at in a helicopter.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
So how did y'all wind up on sleeping back records?

Speaker 4 (33:31):
Well again, me and Paris those that demo story is true.
We built a sixty eighth Camaro from scratch, you know,
we're you know, took off the hard was that.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Some long island ship like some leven long island You
how to fix cars.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
We had a shop, you know, shot we did, but
we did Paris did too. So we shipped the car down,
took off the bottle off the top, this and that.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
It was a paint shop called Earl Shives. People don't
know about that for the whole car. Tape up the headlights,
tape up all the throw a handles, the whole nine
car come out spanking cool, and we knew, I think
it was not that good, but we took it anyway.
That's why we always said that when he says he
double had to push by MD Steads, because that happened

(34:16):
the car broke down. But anyway, we went shopping to
three places and we got the addresses on the album
covers at home and you write them down. You go
to Manhattan and you go walk and our third place
happened to be we had to just ice album.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
I'm the just iced thing, so you.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
I'm trying to just ice LaToya so so, and LaToya
was played at the at the jam, at the house
party all the time. So we had that. That was
our last place. But a guy named Virgil Sims. Vergil
took us inside the inside to go meet Ron Resnick,
and that was it and then all of a sudden
we got a.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Call back the third day.

Speaker 4 (34:56):
Like people talk about this, Me and Pete didn't have
that type of struggle.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Like I said, four we got turned down twice. I
think it was Atlantic and I think something was probably
I don't know, Sonya something on one of the things.
And after that the third phone call was you know,
they came and signed us. It was fifteen hundred dollars though, but.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
We got signed after signing the Sleeping Bag. How do
you guys like plan out what the album is? Like,
how do you guys who's teaching you how to produce?

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Like?

Speaker 1 (35:26):
What equipment were you using back then? On the first record?

Speaker 3 (35:29):
We didn't use. No, we didn't have no equipment. Not.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
The stuff that we did was done with the engineer,
Charlie Marauder. We didn't have whatever he had up there
we use.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Don't forget.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
We was making loops with quarterman's taping and taping around
the room and looping it back to half.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
It's like we was.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Wait, really yeah, the Beastie boy style.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Okay, So ad Rock talked about that that they weren't
using drum machines yet they were just expl he explain
that process, like because I still don't understand the idea
of going around the room and putting pencils up, because.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
It wasn't no programs for sathing like that like that
we knew about, you know, don't forget Hank Stockings.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
It was probably advanced the whole nine.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
And then and whatever you heard that from from from
Beastie Boys.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
This is what Charlie had.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
We didn't have nothing to keep doing this, and we
only had eight tracks on the task AM, so we
had to make do with what we had. But the
looping part, there was no machine that we had that
would loop. So all we had was to record to
tape and then splice it and then make the loop
and then record it back to tape and then record

(36:38):
from that.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
So wait, you're saying that some of the first album
was done on an eight track task and.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
All of it, all, all the first two albums done
on task AM and and red the tapes or cassettes, no,
meaning that the task and board the.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
Okay, so all you heard what the album, that's effects
first album. All that was done and on the on
the eight track.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Not with the album crammed on the R alone on
a track.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Dude, there's like forty two trillion samples on the r NO.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
But after it went from the eight track, we went
to power play to d O C and that made
some other other change. But the majority of the album
when it was done was done on eight track. Hikes
so and and don't forget the The ratings are stuff
when you either, but you can't fuck it ain't that much.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
Only only you.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
The James Bond sample, the Kiss Them, I loved drums
and and that's it.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
But I don't know what you hearing.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
It's not a you kind of have a bomb squattish
I do. I do texture like even one of your
favorite productions when you did run DMCs Uh can I
get it?

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Ye? Hold up yo of question? What is wrong with
Nobody would ever mention that record?

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Are you crazy?

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Nobody knows about that record but you.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Because the thing is, you have like three baselines.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
I do when I know I did.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
My theory is that Public Enemy crams a bunch of
mid range and high end samples. That sounds chaotic, But
you would just mix Jesus like four baselines, even what
you did in the hest, like with the eight O

(38:40):
eights and like I just never saw a person just
mash up a bunch of baselines together. It was the
samples like imagine again you know you hear something right,
and I'm not knowing for us to take out the
base of the sample on mixing and need that, I

(39:04):
guess is the engineer neither. So Pharrell's like, Eric, whatever
that W thirty does for you, it makes no sense
because there's no other sound like it.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Because also to.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
The machine I use, was was on some it did
some other things though pus that you would not use.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
It was a rolling W thirty. You only had fifteen seconds.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Oh okay, don't forget.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
So I was doing this thing stuff. They were doing
the spe to one hundred, the same thing I was doing,
the being up fast, being down slow.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
So would you lay it one track at a time?

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Not really, No, I was.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
Doing it, but some stuff was sped up to where
I can samping because only they had fifteen seconds.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Got it.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Don't forget. All those beats you heard was made in
the fifteen second radius. Say, was done with loops.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
And that's why when you hear jazz, don't speak about
or jay Z's about.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
I don't know how Eric had that.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
It's my thing going because jazzo tried to loop it
and it just didn't loop right, you know, but again
not knowing that we spliced it had a looping around
the room to take.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
So the splice gave the nice cut. It wasn't a
sambling machine.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Did you always stick with the rolling no matter what?
That's what that was your weapon of choice?

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah, the rolling. The roller stayed with me until just
like music was done on fifteen fifteen seconds?

Speaker 1 (40:27):
What what?

Speaker 3 (40:28):
But right?

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Because all I would do is I would get what
I need whatever, I put it back and then when
I get more vocals, I put them back separately, so
I lay the track down separate.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
But the reason why you use it rolling for music? Right?

Speaker 4 (40:41):
So so so when you hear some of the hissing
that you hear in the Marvin Gaye vocals, you probably
can't tell, but it's it's not it's not clean since
because it's going through that machine.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Okay, I was going to say, I try to recreate
you know, I got the Midnight Love Box, that drawing
whatever I proposed that and I was trying to figure
out I was like, yo, how does like how does
this version sound like? It's it's an old cassette. Yes,
a bunch of mids, and so of course if you

(41:14):
sample it at a higher rate, at FOT five or whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Then your bittne is going to sound.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Grittier, right.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
I would try to recreate it. Like the way that I.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Work on production is if I hear something that I like,
and Dyla taught me this shit, he does the same thing, like,
oh okay, I like that. Let me see if I
could recreate it, and see if I could do it.
And my version always sounded too cleaning and procne, and
I was like, yo, how does this sound like?

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Listen?

Speaker 4 (41:44):
I tried to do keep it real over even though
I did it on my new equipment and the ribbon
in the sky. The way that it comes out in
Jamal's record does not come out the same way in
any other thing up a machine like the W thirty.
It made it different because when you tear it.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
It's different. It's clean, It don't look the same. I
don't know why.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
So when you're saying that it's truth, when you try
to recreate something, you'd be like, why don't sound right?

Speaker 2 (42:17):
So to this day, do you still try to collect
rolling thirties or you've moved on I.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Got W thirties because of nostalgia.

Speaker 4 (42:26):
So in case I tell you what, one day, I
was in the lab and I said, rock come here
real quick. So I went inside my floppy disk and
I pulled out some stuff for Muddy Waters and he
was like nah, I pulled out, so I pulled out
pick it up for him, so.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Boom boom boom boom.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
So he is like no, so he goes hate shit.
So I go with the Blackout and I pull out
the boom boom boom boom boom boom. You know, I
got the man. He's like nah, So I pulled out
the youth this because do you on? Blackout was a
W thirty that had programmed drums on it, So I
pulled out the disc that came with the Roland to

(43:06):
make that U beat. So he was just buked out
by So I keep it from nostalgia and and and
Pharrell always says, Eric, where's the W thirty beats?

Speaker 3 (43:15):
You know, because don't forget.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
I met Pharrell when I was doing Blackstreet, and Pharrell
was was was.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
With a guy named Mike, his singer, and with Chad.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
But if you go on YouTube, there's two songs that
I let Pharrell rhyme on that got leaked back then
when I was doing Blackstreet and one of the role
one of them is called boothnocalization and the other one
is called and you can hear Pharrell ryman.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
So Pharrell was like, yo, I saw Teddy, listen, what's
up with your boys? Let him rhyme.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Teddy wasn't really messing with them like that, even if
they were in the studio, he dept wasn't let them hyme.
So that's how the Nettunes even got left from them
because Teddy had him.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
I let the guy rhyme. But right it happened. Happened
for the best, though, I see.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
All right, wait, you brought up something and I might
as well go to So what she's saying, was there any.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Competition, either friendly or real, between you guys and rock Him?

Speaker 2 (44:18):
I for one never thought that you guys sounded like
him or they sounded like you.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
But was that the talk of New York at the time.

Speaker 4 (44:27):
They're talking Long Island. Don't forget we're close, got it? So,
so it was not really the artist. It was the
people in the hood that was starting to beat. So
of course, if.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Somebody saying like y'all are biting rock Him or.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Like right, So if somebody's in your ear singing stuff,
like listen the nads record rock Him.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
The story came from me. I told him that story
he wrote about the autobiography Rock Him.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Right, because what happened was the hood was singing because
rock Him had you can get a smack for this.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
I ain't no joke. Me and Paris is a single
come out. It's like a Digham smack. You smacked me
and I smack you back. So the hood was like yo,
e pm D came at you because if you're listening,
you would be like, yeah, you're right, you can get
this smacked for this, I ain't no joke. You smacked
me and I smack you back. So no matter what,

(45:20):
then rock can't made father lega. A brother said Diggam.
I never dug him be could him follow leading up?
That's why I drug him to the Danser zone too,
So he kept going.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
But was it coincidence or no? He came for us
or were birth of y'all?

Speaker 4 (45:34):
Like no, no, no, The first one was coincidence. Final
leader was for us. He's brother said Diggam, I never
dug him. He couldn't follow the leader. No, that's why
I drug him for the danger zone.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
He kept going, So, did y'all ever have a conversation, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
We did and re squons to be after he broke
up with Eric B.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
But he was actually saying I was coming, of course,
no see, but it wasn't like y'all were coming for him.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
He don't know that the hood is how to beat
question the business.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
I've been in that situation where I reacted to someone
instigating that blah blah blah's talking about you, and then
we made it damn okay.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
Right, So again it's like again you got to understand Jesuits,
there's Brentwood Base Show, Deer Parked and Wine Dan so
three towns down. The Guard lives right here, and then
you got these other kids from Brentwood who now everybody's
talking about.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
Everybody's talking about E. P. M D. And you'll rock him.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
So when Paris heard that, that's wh why he said,
niggas say, we signed to Awe and that music with Whack.
We dropped the albums Stricting Peas and you thought it
was four third day later, the LP went goes to
what you're saying, Paris called his name because after he said,
we said that again, you know, you know how you
know we wasn't having any so it don't matter.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
I got it. I got it. So at least y'all
squashed it. Okay, Yeah, So were you expecting to sell
five hundred thousand records like you guys for an independent label?

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Was fresh sleeping bag even prepared?

Speaker 2 (47:17):
No way, I was gonna say, like, because I'm thinking
like Crust Groove for listeners out there. The story of
Crush Groove that came out in eighty five was kind
of a situation where they got popular so fast that
they didn't have enough money to press extra copies of
the record, and then they had to borrow from the
mob and then some shit happens and blah blah blah

(47:39):
blah blah. But like, how a sleeping bag able to
I mean, you're a major act as far as I'm concerned, right,
Were they prepared for that or were they totally caught
off guard that you guys were like instantly out the box.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
You own TV raps like rap gods.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
They was as far as the selling, But they was
prepared because they was with Universal Europe before anybody was
doing the mergers like that, so they already had the
back end of a big label already to be able
to manufacture it. That's why EPMD was so big overseas too,
because the Europe because Universal was behind first records.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Let's see, I want to talk about people in the ecosystem.
First of all, Cayler Boss was the original DJ vpm
D and then Scratch comes in.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
So how did that transition happen?

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Yeah, Cayler Boss and you know, he was starting his.

Speaker 4 (48:33):
Life a little bit and things were moving fast for him,
you know God, And I think that maybe it wasn't
him being able to handle that because he had a
new girlfriend, you know was I think he's getting ready
to marry at the time, had kids coming, whatever.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
But that's what I think. I don't really know.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
How did you'll find Scratch?

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Scratch was in London. We had to show on Monday.
We had no DJ, so we had we had the
tape machine, the one that played the tape. We had
one of them as the DJ before they was you
know that machine before there was somebody that we had that.
So at the end of the day Rest in peace.
Jam Master J said listen, I have a DJ for you.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
Scratch had just won the seminar in London and jam
to J bought Scratched on our tour bus and that's
and then that was history from there.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
And those scratches one right there.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Yeah, what what's what you're saying? Don't forget yo?

Speaker 1 (49:22):
We oh shit, I forgot that part.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
Yes, what you're saying is made though quest and now
we have the Parliament by itself, right, so it still
wasn't getting us. So we sent Scratched the cassette and said, Scratch,
here's the idea we got, see what you can do
with that. And that's when the famous scratches from what
you're saying happened, you know, because it was plain.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
I only asked that because I tease bow legging loud.
To this day, I don't care what he tells me, Like,
there's no way he could convince me that doctor Ice
was that precise on every cut and scratch on those
UTFO records.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
I was like, come on, y'all, you know, good one.
You sampled Leader of the Pack.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
And hell yeah, but how do you know that, dude,
I'm a historian.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
He did, he did, he did sample, he sampled them.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Before I'm in the game. I study the game, Okay,
so that's how I do it. Steezo working here at
the Tonight Show, oftentimes when Steve Martin comes on the show,
we play his song for him every time once the
Prescott win. That the Roots custom do songs like the

(50:38):
walkout song was just as important.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
As the interview.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
And Steve Martin was one of those people that was
like always wanted to know, like what do the Roots
play when I come out and they hear the same
old odi this reading And I told him, I was like, yo,
are you even aware that you're a part of hip
hop culture?

Speaker 1 (51:02):
And He's like, no, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
And I was like, one of the most popular dances
of our era is the Steve Martin Martin So number one?
How is that dance to Steve Martin? And I've not
seen Steve Martin? Did he do it in the jerk?
And I missed it?

Speaker 4 (51:18):
Like nah, No, it was just THESEO just called the
record that when he heard them, Ben Ben Ben, he
just made them say whatever because he's the one that
had the Steve Martin idea. He was like called the
Steve Martin he said, trust me because he wanted to
have a dance for himself because after you got to Chipto,
he wanted to you know what I'm saying, like, yo,

(51:39):
people know me for this other dance, let me come
up with something else.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
So he named it that, so we wrote it.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
So he just named it the Steve Martin he.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Named it and we wrote it.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Did you have anything to do with his first solo
record or with It's My Turn or anything?

Speaker 4 (51:57):
No, I think that him and Paris had fell out.
So because again, don't forget, Craig Matt was supposed to
be with us too.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
So Craig Matts.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
If you know the Zoomzo Matt story, when E P
and D broke up, that busts everything from him because
there was nothing for him to attach to the dreams
that he had to go with the hit squad because
that's what he was doing.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
The fun forget the funk that Craig Matt was doing
was like, nah, it's erkan. I wanted to be here.
But since the group broke up, years went by. Alvin
Tony God bent to dead, brought him to Puffy, but
as far as THEEZO, he went on and did what
Craig did, trying to do something to show us right

(52:42):
but then when him and fathers fell out, I was like, Okay,
it's my term or it's my thing, is my term?

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Got it?

Speaker 3 (52:49):
And so what you're saying when you hear saying some
get them you was hired.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Right, Yeah, Paris went adham, I see because the.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Pits boy, it was high, so you don't really hear
it until I tell.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
You now, got it? Okay? I didn't know that. All right,
let's get into it. Man.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
You had too much to drink. So did y'all turn
the record in? It was like, yo, tone Logan is
doing some crazy numbers. Y'all need a pop single?

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Like what you said to.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
You know something weird? I'm gonna tell you something.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
One of the biggest responses and this was like, maybe
I know it's beyond twenty ten, so maybe like twenty
twelve or whatever.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
I was doing a fast wrap set.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Okay, shit had to be over like one hundred and
eighteen beast for men's playing a lot of hip hop,
house and move jump jack your body and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
And I saw you had too much to drink, and
I was.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Like, you better not have you better play the first
you want to.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Know it's funny I put it on and in the
age of irony, way like you do understand now that
whatever we consider like when I DJ now and I
spend ice Ice Baby like anything that I wouldn't normally
touch back in eighty nine, ninety ninety one, ninety two,

(54:17):
like I play it now and it's like I put
Michael Jackson on like people just like I put you
had too Much to Drink on and motherfuckers started doing
the Carlton to it, like were you guys forced to
do you had to much to drink and it's time
to party?

Speaker 4 (54:32):
No, No, it's time and party wasn't forced because I think
that back then a hip hop if you know, everybody.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Had a dance re kid like doing Yeah, had a
house doing.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
And even with I'm Mad remix I'm so mad you
did that?

Speaker 3 (54:47):
I didn't do that. Scratch bring that to the table
with the so yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah
boom boom boom boom boom. That was Scratch's remix.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Tell you Oh God.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
One of the very first roots demos was based on
so Who's Pal Joey's Hot New music Wow?

Speaker 1 (55:10):
And we were in a club we heard that ship
and I was.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Like a damn y yeah, y'all. I think Scratch knew
like you knew person who knew music knew records because
we didn't know what it was.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
But but we were like, yo, it doesn't sound bad,
so we used it. But as far as it's time
to party, you're talking about that.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Boom that was a huge, huge record, hip hop or not,
so we wasn't too mad about that.

Speaker 4 (55:37):
But that time the party came from Russell. Because of
run DMC making the rock boxes and all the Mary
Mary's and all that type of stuff.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
I was gonna say, he wants you to do a
DJ Hollywood.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Record exactly that was, and then he had the nerve
to say, Yo, we're gonna shoot the video. You going
next all, Oh yeah, we're gonna have Llokuje come down too.
That's why loing video and such so, and then going
back to Cali all this stuff, I'm like, Yo, I'm

(56:08):
like and listen, man, I'm glad people that listened to
the record took it as a joke kind of because
the video was funny and the you know, the yes,
so it wasn't ticket seriously, so it was like n
w A doing the shit they did in their records, you.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Know, dude, Well, I mean at the time, it got
a lot of play on the Box, all right, So
our listeners out.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Give remember the Box. Yeah, a lot of put in
the box it got, all right, So the big payback too.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
There's a moment between like eighty nine, maybe like ninety
four ninety five. The closest thing we had to YouTube
was a channel called The Box, which was basically it
was a jukebox.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Like you go to this.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Channel and you call it number yes or a dollar
seventy five, they will play your video.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Now you just go on YouTube and watch a video.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
But a lot of people credit that a lot of
regional rap that wasn't going to get play.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
On beet or MTV Found Life here.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
This is why I credit the Box for like the
popularity of Two Live Crew because you couldn't see their
videos on MTV like that, right, or us really getting
to know the Ghetto boys, or a lot of West
Coast acts that we weren't up.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yes, yes, the Box is what did that.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
But yes, someone loved y'all a lot in the Philadelphia area.
I probably saw you had too much to drink, probably
more than I seen. So what you say in video.
Oh way, dude, that's how I knew to ask it, yo,
Like it just came on all the time.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
So speaking of ll, can you explain the Rampage video now?
LLLL claims that is him in that chair in the
Rampage video in the silhouette. Yeah, but what happened in
the ram page video that LLLL just wasn't out front
with the you two.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
It's so crazy because Llo had dropped the album before that,
and the album didn't pop off like that. So what
happened was I heard that Russell was like, yo, go
hang with parishing them. So that's what he did. He
befriended them to get his street se right. So once
he you know him in past was more tight than
me and him. But we was all close.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
And it was in the l O COOJ Tour two
in eighty nine though, too, so so you know we
was always friends.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
But so when Llo got the Mally album Get Ready
to Come, He's in his prime. You know what is
the panther animal that kills I'm like a blow shot
coming out, so so breaking Dorner is coming the whole
night and he coming right all of a sudden, we
get ready to shoot rampage. So he says, yo, man,

(58:57):
my manage met my dad said, you know, I'm about
to come out.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
I shouldn't be seen yet. So we felt like, God, damn,
you didn't came and you then you know.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
This this was his best verse ever, right.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
So he was like he ain't coming. So I told
Russell yo, on the strength of Russ. I don't know
what's going on, but I know the el but to
be down here to this video and people, now, I
was mad the whole video set. I was kind of
upset though, because I wouldn't figure it would even be
a problem, right comes it comes late and he's like, yo,

(59:32):
I can get in it. But I got to be
in a silhouette. So now I'm really man now, like
extra man. But we had no choice, and I thought
that Russell them would have put their foot down like
yo and.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
Be like yo this he signed to you, you know,
while are we doing this?

Speaker 4 (59:48):
But again everything had to go so and again this
was when you know, Jennifer Lopez was one of the
dances in the video at the time.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
So I did not know that.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Yeah, if you got the.

Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
Videos, she has on Paris's face and the other girl
has my face on the shirt that's.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
J Loo dancing, So damn okay.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
There was a bunch of people around that was like
you know, around the set, and it was like, okay,
well this got to get done because again, if we
don't do it, then it's gonna be wasting a video.
So we did what we had to do and that's
what But you know, you can if you know l
you can see the silhouette.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
You can see his movement and how it is.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
You know, it'say, that was not a body double, right,
so for people to dig question like who is it?
And that was the messed up party by it like
dag Man. And then today when people ask you what's
your favorite verse, you mentioned that, you know, and that's
the weird part.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
That verse was one of his greatest endings ever. If
there ever was the genesis of a mic drop moment
after a verse, that verse was it? How long did
it take for y'all to get that verse out of him?

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
I wasn't there.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
Don't forget there's a version out there that God best
the dead while mister c is going to in Clark
can going, but they both would play.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
The version that the beat was different. It didn't have
tramp in it yet it had the drums from BT
Express in it because the drums that's over the tramp
beat is what it was with the baseline. Yeah, yep,
right on that NonStop album. Yes, that was playing. So

(01:01:29):
it was only l O, Cuj and Parish in the
studio with different vocals. It's out there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
How do they get that version they.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Started with that version first? I wasn't there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
How did DJs get that version if it was never
printed up?

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Somebody leaped it and gave it to them.

Speaker 4 (01:01:43):
Somebody they had it, They had it early so and
it couldn't pay from anybody our power play.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
What made y'all change to the tramp loop instead got
you another thing? My favorite Peate rock moment. I'm sorry,
my second favorite Pete rock moment of all time, because
nothing will ever describe what it was like hearing the
shut Him Down remix for the first time. I didn't

(01:02:10):
see that shit coming, right, But I gotta tell you,
the first time I heard Rampage in a nightclub was
the p Rock remix version Stop Lying Dog Boom boo.
Oh my god, that song does not get enough respect.

(01:02:33):
I'm shocked that def jam let y'all get it, because
Rampage twelve inch was a rarity in which there was
like five selections on each side. Okay, so the grooves
is smaller, okay, But for me, that remix of Rampage,
the p Rock remix of Rampage is my second favorite

(01:02:55):
all time Pete Rock creations. And that's no way because
that was before he was air quote Peat Rock.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
How did y'all even?

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
But he was still doing the remixes though, because again
was he because because because Rampays is ninety one, so whatever,
But it was something else that Pete. We got to
look up ninety one People Rock and see what he
was doing, because it wasn't just people I can see
us move yet that they didn't come out yet.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
The first time I heard of Pete Rock was the
ramp Pays remix. I didn't even know that he had
a group.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Well, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
What, I had to find him from somewhere. We had
to look it up, see what was out there. I'm
looking out there, I'm looking up and yo, like nineteen
ninety one People Rock.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Business as Usual came out in nineteen ninety all right,
So granted December eighteenth, nineteen ninety so yes, right, the
single came out in nineteen ninety one. But the very
first time I heard of Pete Rock was that remix,
because I was like, yo, I didn't even know that
Eric got down with the RAFFI came drums like that
like that to me was like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Okay, but listen, but it don't show nothing else of
him the.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Creator and all that stuff will come out later.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
But no, I'm talking about ninth. When you're saying that
e pm D remix.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Or awesome ful film, how did I find them? Dude?

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Like I brought that When I heard that song, I
went and got the twelve inch. It's all p rock
hit to the head, hardcore remix or whatever. And that's
how I got introduced to Pete Rock.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Hey, you know what, it wasn't even me, it probably was.

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
It was a death Jam thing because I wasn't in
it like that to be going and hit and find
him whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
Somebody at Death Jam found him.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
So how did you guys wind up leaving Sleeping Back
to go to Death Jam.

Speaker 4 (01:04:42):
Yeah, Russell did the audit on them because they knew
things wasn't right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
You know, E p D was selling all these records.
We didn't have nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
They up there with new Deaths and jeeps and soap
us and shit. So Russell and Russell wanted what he wanted.
Because even with the tour, when when Run said, Yo,
go get them new boys, like Run did that? Run
got us out there. And then when it was time,
when they saw that how we was moving, they knew
that we was the new So Russell was like yo,

(01:05:10):
because we was all on Rush management. That's why when
you asked a question about the helicopter and all that
type of stuff, this is Rush management. Ain't nobody bigger
than them. So all Rush acts were different. They were
different with Leo or Russell.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
The only person I've interviewed on this platform about his
car game was Biz. This will be like I was
the first one with I was the first one. But
I have to say that, even though I'm not a
car dude per se, that the Unfinished Business album cover

(01:05:48):
is a rather iconic hip hop photo for just the
b boys stance, the nikes, you'll rocking whatever. Yeah, the
bucket has all this stuff. So by that point, were
you satisfied with the way that life was going.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
We were still young, because I'm an eighteen year old kid.
So at the end of the day, I still know
what's going on. I'm in there with Will Smith. Will's
telling me that, you know, I'm about to be a
big actor. I'm like for real, Like he was speaking
like this in eighty eight. But we was in the
backstage playing basketball, so certain things that you would think that.

(01:06:33):
But when the second album came and we went number
one again, we still didn't really get it because we'll
announced on stage when to graduate EPDEP or second on
one album in the row, like you know whatever, whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
We didn't even know what they was talking about. So
we didn't. Don't forget. We was getting jerked the first
two albums, so we didn't know. We know, we didn't
have no money, but it was still we were still
happy making records and being on tour. So the tour
and then we had to I named Burt Padell. Don't forget.
Burt Padell made everything right for all his artists.

Speaker 4 (01:07:05):
He was the number one account for every artist in
New York, every major actor from the Narrow to Madonna
to everybody was.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
All Burt Padell.

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
So all the stuff you saw us where it was possible,
the houses he got for us, the cars he got forced,
so we didn't know that we didn't we wasn't getting
it and we didn't have it until Russell came and
ordered it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
First records.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
What were those tours like in eighty eight eighty nine,
those those nail tours? We ll, I don't know if
you were on the Runs House, you were on the
Runs House.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
All, yeah, that's the first one eighty eight, the first
one that I've been on before before the fresh best.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
So tours are different now for us.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
I mean, you know, we're in a position now where
you know, some of his assister on staying at you know,
the highest level of four seasons and whatever, and you
got to have a rider and your own tour bus
and all those things. Right, I know things were different
in the early dawning of the nineties. But were those
tours genuinely fun for you? And what were other territories like?

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
Again you were acting young kids, of course, it's exciting.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
The Runs House tour was very very respectful, very neat
because it's run DMC. So it's run DMC Publican the
me e pm DJ for the First Prince and sometimes
SATs the Sonics, So again it was run DMC so
everything was a plus l O COOJ tour e pm D,
l O COO J, Big Daddy, King, Slick Rick. Of

(01:08:35):
course it's Carl Blanc because it's still LLLL.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
But it's also Rush management, you know. So all the
tours was dope.

Speaker 4 (01:08:43):
The mc hammer when we had the beef with him again,
started off good MC Hammer e pm D. But but
THELAS opening up, it started off good.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
The DJ Quick tour was drama because every night they
was coming for Quick. Every gang in the Kansas City
or all them San Diego's with them gang Bingers is crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
They was at Quick.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
So every time EPMD, DJ Quick, chump Rock and Gangsta
and it was a problem almost every night.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
So the reason why I asked that question is because
the only indication that I had about what tour life.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Because the thing is the roots.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Had the roots come out ten years beforehand, we would
have been on this tour because our whole existence was
living on the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Road two hundred and fifty plus days.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
So a lot of what I learned or thought about
what life was like before ninety five touring was what
I learned about DJ Quick rhyming on just like Compton
what was the marketplace that you didn't like going to?

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
Even at the height of EP and D.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
I tell you what, DC back in the early eighties,
early nineties, you couldn't go there without a go go
group being on the bill.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
If the things didn't change until until Puffy until ninety three,
you could not go to DC and perform without having
the go go band on your bill with you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Wow. It was like that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
It didn't have it, and they had their own, their
own market. The whole that I watched R Kelly one night,
Nigga come on last behind what's that? What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
The big band that was there, rare essence, backyard, your backyard,
junk yard.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
Okay, they went on and all Kelly came on after him,
and they was filing out by the hundreds. It's like
that DC had their own culture language.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
It didn't change until bad Boy and Puffy's parties burned
that to Howard got it?

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Okay, I see.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
But but as far as the other markets, the only
market that E PMD has trouble in, and you would
think that we was a brand new group even till
five years ago, is New Orleans. It's a real different thing.
It's different it's different, and think about two. They're coming
to like fans like yo, whatever, they love.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
You, but we're not in that arena. I felt like
I was a new rapper.

Speaker 6 (01:11:19):
Hey everybody, this is Sugar Steve of Questlove Supreme.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
Sorry to interrupt, but Eric.

Speaker 6 (01:11:24):
Shermon and Emir spoke for over three hours, so please
come back next week or check your podcast feed for
part two. In that episode, Eric reflects on working with
Dos Effects, Redman, two Short, and more. He also speaks
about sampling Roger Trautman for Crossover and share some superstars
that have been asking him for beats as of late.
Thanks so much, Happy New Year from Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
West Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For
more podcasts iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.