Fatima Robinson

Fatima Robinson is a world-class dancer and choreographer who has pivoted to directing. You know Fatima's work, from Michael Jackson's "Remember The Time" to the Emmy-winning Dr. Dre-led Superbowl Halftime Show to Beyoncé's Renaissance Tour. In a Questlove Supreme conversation, Fatima gushes with passion for dance and hip-hop as she looks back at incredible work with Aaliyah, Michael, and Kendrick Lamar, to name a few. Fatima and Ahmir also reflect on collaborating on the two televised performances celebrating Hip Hop's 50th anniversary.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to West Love Supreme.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Your host, Quest Love and with Me is the award
winning team inst of all the teams. How else it going?

Speaker 4 (00:19):
Like you?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
You look awfully glowy tod that.

Speaker 5 (00:22):
Oh yeah, I'm on I'm on the new fancy camera
excuse so I'm feeling I might be feeling myself quite
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, I was about to say, you got that Lenny
Kravitz on the show, A little bit about yourself today?
What is it?

Speaker 5 (00:34):
I knew Fatima was gonna come on here looking correct,
so I had to make sure I was, you know,
far with my sense.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Okay? And what are you wearing this evening, Steve?

Speaker 6 (00:45):
I'm wearing pretty much the same thing as Fatima the time,
but you have to.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Take it off the shoulders, Oh God, like the surface
of the shoulder. Thanks Fatimah. By the way, Steve, my
older family members, you can tell they're older because of
what they told me.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
They was like, Yo, how come that boy always smokes reefer?

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Wait? What was your response?

Speaker 4 (01:14):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:14):
I was laughing at.

Speaker 7 (01:15):
Them because I was like, you didn't was good once?

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Some Yeah, I was like wait to hear about me.
Good to see you in your uh your old spot. Bill.

Speaker 8 (01:25):
Yep, I'm back in the studio. I'm I'm wearing stitch fixed,
thank you very much, little prod from stitch ficks. I
don't look like Fatima, but that's okay.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I'm good.

Speaker 8 (01:34):
I'm happy to be home.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
I was waiting. All right, how you doing, I'm great?

Speaker 7 (01:38):
You know, happy anniversary and Mirror have you anniversary?

Speaker 5 (01:41):
You and Fante and all the Okay players have you anniversary?

Speaker 3 (01:45):
That's right, big twenty five. We are twenty five years old.
Font Tikolo, okay, you got your try sweater on? I
see yeah, man, yeah, I have to for the tribe.

Speaker 9 (01:55):
Man we in the present sorority tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Right, I see?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
So, speaking of which, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Similar to the LL cool J episode in which I
admit it that maybe I purposely slowed down the pursuit
of real camaraderie because I knew I wanted my first
real conversation to be on this platform, you know, And
that's just not for self serving purposes. I just I

(02:24):
know that the first month and a half of a
friendship with me with a fellow industry peer person is
kind of going a result to a lot of weird,
nerdy questions, and I've been told it's rather annoying. So
that's why this platform exists, and today our guest is
no exception to that.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I will say that there's.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Literally no human being in this industry that I personally
am curious about the path of their journey from soup
to nuts that they've taken tactically. Every iconic video worth
its grain of salt that has been on MTV or

(03:07):
BT or you know, now YouTube is how we get
it has either been you know, blessed by her presence.
If we're telling back in the day later with her
expertise in choreography, later as she pivots into directing not
to mention any wild moment that we've seen with dancing,
nine times out of ten you're either watching her personal

(03:31):
blueprint or I'm almost certain that her disciples have you know,
have carried the baton.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
I would be remiss if I didn't say.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
That a lot of the praise and the credit that
I've personally been getting for the Hip Hop fifty celebration,
things that happened that the Grammys, and that happened again
with the special in December. I'm telling you right now,
our guest today was show enough, the anchor or a
lot of that, Like I got the glory of just like, hey,

(04:02):
this song and that song and call this guy up
and clear that sample. But in terms of just like
dealing with the headaches not only as a creator and
running her own squad, but you know, she damn near
had to be a life coach just to keep certain
group members from corn at each other's throats, because you

(04:25):
got to understand, like, you know, a lot of these
group members broke up. You know, most groups don't last
forty years. So I have so many questions to ask
our guest today. Please welcome to Quest of Supreme for
Tima Robinson.

Speaker 10 (04:40):
Finally, Oh yes, exactly, all right, I'm gonna ask you
the question now without giving it all away.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yes, I've been kind of open on this platform.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
You know, I mean, nothing I say winds up being
headlines in any of the blocking sphere whatever. So we're
even though we're award winning, like we're not gotcha journalism.
But I've talked about how stressful these situations can be,
and I've only had to deal with two of them,
which you know, of course the Hip Hop fifty things.

(05:17):
But you, on the other hand, have to deal with
you know, I meant, Lord knows how many Super Bowl
halftimes you've been involved in every award show that we've seen,
and walking away from Hip Hop fifty, in which I
will say that watching it on television, I said to
myself like, oh, but being there that night, it's intense.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
There was look, I'm about full transparency.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
I personally was sort of a block away from depression
really well, because the thing was, it was like I
vowed to never subject myself to that level of stress
ever again in this lifetime. The first time doing the
fifteen minute Grammy thing, when I landed it in New York,
I lost a tooth fell out. I went straight to

(06:12):
the dentist, and part of my resistance to coming back
to it for a two hour version was no, like,
why would I ever want to do that to myself?
But the thing is is that I only have to
experience that twice. I'm almost certain you have to deal
with that eight to nine times a year. Yeah, Ward

(06:35):
show every So my first question to you why even bother, like,
why why do you do this? Why?

Speaker 4 (06:43):
Oh my gosh, no, it's the best. I love finding
the solution to the problem. I get off on that.
So because I get off on that, I'm like, bring
it to me, Like I love when it's like a
fire and I'm like, oh, put that fire out, fire
another fire, put it out, put it out. I love it.

(07:04):
I live for that.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
I was going to say, And I've shared the story
about us having an emergency some six minutes oh yeah,
six minutes before we're live on the air and everything's
falling apart, and I looked at you and you just
you did the zen thing that I've never seen before,

(07:26):
and I was just like, I gotta know what Fatima
is doing in her life because I was having a
pan even after it was over. I had a minor
panic attack at the end of the first Grammys thing.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Because I was unaware that Uzzi came on and saved us.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
Yeah, so well he didn't, Yeah he.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
That was I mean not he put a nice cherry
at the end of the But you really.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Fought for that moment to happen, which was really great,
And you know the other moments I had ever experienced
something like that, someone dropping out on live TV while
we were actually in the moment of it that was
new to me. But at a certain point it just
with hip hop, nothing is surprising. And I have to
tell a lot of these executives, like, you know, they'll be,

(08:17):
oh my god, this is happening, and this is happening,
and I'm like, it's hip hop. It's gonna be okay,
just give it a moment. We're gonna figure it out,
you know. And it's just I grew up with hip hop.
It's what I know. It's how I've been trained, and
you know, we always figure it out.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
Can I just ask out on a number sense? We're
talking about how many artists and how many dancers for
the hip Hop fifty fifth the Grammy.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
I only had to deal with the artists. She has
to deal with the artists and the dancer.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
That's why I'm asking artists, dancers, managers, wardrobe, lighting, production design.
I gotta answer all the questions.

Speaker 7 (08:56):
Oh so that's hundreds of people, Okay, yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Started at the beginning. Where are you from? Where were
you born?

Speaker 4 (09:03):
I was born in Little Rock, Arkansas, and I moved
to LA when I was five years old. Oh wow,
yeah wow, Little Rock, Arkansas. And every summer I go
back to Little Rock and be with my family there.

Speaker 7 (09:16):
What part of LA did you move to?

Speaker 4 (09:18):
I lived everywhere we first landed in Compton. I lived
in Inglewood, in Harthorn and El Segondo and San Pedro,
and I lived all over the place in La.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
See, I thought you straight up Brooklyn.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Everybody. Everybody thinks I'm from New York, but no, and
I really not. Until like five years ago, I really
rode for LA. But now I just ride for California
because I love Ohi and I'm just out of city.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Can you sell me on that?

Speaker 3 (09:49):
Because a lot of my friends are moving to Ohi
and I want to know what's up there before.

Speaker 7 (09:55):
It's light over there? Is that what you're about to say?
That's what it looks like.

Speaker 4 (09:58):
I was going to take you guys out to look
at the mountains, and I was checking to see if
the sunset, But the clouds are really low right now,
they're covering the mountains. It's beautiful here, and it's just
a wonderful war text of good energy. You know. It's
called the Valley of the Moon, and the moon hits
really beautiful here. It's not that far from La only

(10:23):
an hour and a half, but it's in nature and
it's just gorgeous.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
See. My only concern is that as a person who
insisted on getting on the first flight, and most of
my flights are five am flights. Yeah, and that basically
means that I would have to leave your house at
like one in the morning just to get the Lax
by three.

Speaker 7 (10:44):
Is that your airport? That's not right?

Speaker 4 (10:46):
Well, there's Santa Barber Airport, but there's not as many
flights out, a lot of more connections, you know, so
it's easier to just go out of.

Speaker 7 (10:53):
Lax sacrifice the peace.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
We in the peace time of life.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
All right, you're selling me on it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
A lot of my friends just.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Up and left New York, LA and they all went
to OHI, And I'm like, what the hell is that
OHI that I don't know about?

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Is it like more like a hippie commune or no?

Speaker 4 (11:14):
I mean there were a lot of hippies that came
here back in the day. It's really changing over there's
really great restaurants and stuff. It's just you know, you
it's it's just being in the country. But there's also
really amazing people here. So you have really great dinner
parties at friends' houses and you know, you can you know,

(11:35):
see horses walking down the street and go on hikes,
and it's just a better quality of life, you know.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
I would like to know if you can remember this, like,
what is the first creative thing that you remember putting together?

Speaker 4 (11:57):
The first creative thing I remember putting together. It would
probably be I have two younger sisters, and so when
my mom would have guests over, we were the entertainment.
So I would put together dance moves on my sisters.
And that was probably the first creative because I would

(12:18):
you know, I would dress us and we would put
towels on our head because I thought I was Darsel
from Solid Gold.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Away dar Way.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
You couldn't tell me nothing, you know, so we get
in her heels and we were the you know, the
whole performance. And that when I did Dream Girls, it
was such a trip because I felt like I was
doing the poses that I used to do with my
two younger sisters.

Speaker 5 (12:47):
Yoh, that's so interesting. You just gave me a whole
memory of like little Girls. We used to choreograph things
on the playground, like I remember steps doing things to
like Lisa, Lisa and colch Jam and that was like
the thing that just hit me with a memory.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
That's yeah, totally that that was it.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
This this is the third time that someone's randomly dropped
Darcel Wayne's name. You gotta find this woman.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
Because I'm in contact with her.

Speaker 7 (13:17):
What of course you are? Oh, I can't wait to
get to this list of dancers she's still in contact with.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yes, I know that. You know, we we hold Sheryl's
song of Soul train up in high honor, but you
know we we also had Darcel Wayne too, And she
doesn't get enough props because she definitely carried all of
solid Gold on her back for a number of years.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yes, they even got a second black dancer, so they.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
Actually created the in sag they created the principal dancer
because of her. Oh, and principal dancers get paid different
than the and so because she was so amazing and
such an individual, and they kept giving her solo, they said,
we have to figure this out, and she's she created
the principal dancer.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, not knowing that you're from California, I want to
know what your life in dance was before you became
a professional dancer. So yeah, you basically just walk us through,
like where would you hang in California?

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Like, were you an Uncle Jam person?

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Where you like?

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Definitely I was too young for Uncle Jam's army, but
I listened to all that Egyptian lover and all of that.
I would go to, you know, at every high school
they had dance competition, so I would enter the dance
competitions and win there. But what really did it for
me is I graduated high school at sixteen and I

(14:47):
started going to this club Paradise twenty four where they
would have dance contests and one year, girls from who
danced for BBD straight Ahead they won. It was a
five thousand dollars damce, so everybody would enter the next
year it was it was they were called gt I

(15:08):
at the time, and that was far side. Later on
we won, We won my my dance tree called a
Feminine Touch. We won that year, and that's where John
John Singleton saw us when that year and came backstage
and was like, I'm gonna put you all in my movie.
I'm gonna put you all the movie. We were like, yeah, whatever,
and he ended up putting us in Boys in the

(15:30):
Hood Is Extras.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
What scene?

Speaker 4 (15:32):
What was it? What's scene? The barbecue scene?

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Ah, okay, yeah, okay. So the relationship with John obviously,
let you remember the time later on correct, correct.

Speaker 4 (15:44):
When he kept asking for choreographer. He kept coming up
with my name and he's like, I know that girl
and call for that.

Speaker 9 (15:52):
Yeah, And had you ever choreographed anything prior to that?

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Oh? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
So when back in the day, when you hooked up
with the hip hop artists, you naturally just made up
their steps. We didn't know that there was an actual
job called choreographer. We you got with Big Daddy Kane,
like I used to dance with him with Scooba and scrap,
you know, we and we would we would kind of

(16:17):
we had the market locked down because it was Big
Les and Josie in New York and it was me
and Titi in l A. And so they would call
us be like, oh heavy d you looking for dancers.
So we would fly out on fake tickets and then
land in New York and then dance for heav Fake
tickets is when you didn't have to have and show

(16:39):
an ID and you can just be you can that,
said John Moses, and you give them the ticket. Oh,
back in the day, you guys didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Forget Huey Lewis once told us about just like sneaking
on the plane and like, well.

Speaker 7 (17:00):
I mean everything was hand written back then too.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
So everything. Yeah, we you know, somebody there was a
guy who had a credit card scheme and we'd pay him,
you know, one hundred dollars. He'd get us a ticket.
It was just a whole It was the wild, wild
West back in the day. But we would land there
and then we'd dance for heavy and then we call them,
you know, hey, so and so is looking for dancers
in LA, and then they do the same thing and

(17:25):
come to La.

Speaker 7 (17:26):
So wait, so let me.

Speaker 5 (17:27):
Was this no conversation You said you guys didn't know
you were doing choreography, But like even for like the
R and B videos with some of those choreographers, there
was no conversation about in between the No.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
They would literally I remember, like you know, when I
danced the big Daddy came, we'd stay at his house
and the bodyguard would come and come on. It's rehearsal.
We rehearsed his basement and you know, and we'd make
up the routine and we'd go on stage and you know,
we would do our number and we were happy, and

(18:00):
no one questioned where the dance was supposed to come
from because there was no place for it to come
from other than us, Because there was no unless you
were in the clubs. You didn't know how to dance
hip hop unless you were watching MTV or video jukebox
and recording the steps and like learning at home. Like
there was no place there was. All the choreographers were jazz.

(18:23):
That was Michael Peters and Debbie. They weren't mess That's
what I was wondering. They were not messing with us. Okay, No,
it was just two different worlds. So by the time
I got to Michael, he was so excited about this
hip hop dance he had been seeing and hearing about.

(18:43):
He was like, I want to learn it all.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
So dope. I sort of correlated with video directors. I mean,
I would say that maybe Lionel Martin was the kind
of the first generation of hip hop directors that would
feature dancers and whatnot. So like we take it for
granted now where I mean, it's not that I see

(19:08):
dancers all that much in this environment, but who, in
your opinion like really kickstarted the concept of like, okay,
I need two dances in order to make my package complete.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Like as far as you're concerned, Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
Who who first did it. You know, it was dance
was just part of the culture, like everybody had two
dances with them. And let me tell you my Lionel
Martin story. I auditioned for him and it was here
in La and it was at his hotel. And when

(19:46):
I got there, there were two girls there. One's mother
had talked her and to being the choreographer, and you know,
he explained the treatment to us. He then went she said, well,
let me see you guys dance, and one girl kind
of complained about the carpet and stuff, and another girl

(20:08):
complained about the tape. Player was like, sped the song
up and she said, oh, it won't be so fast.
And I got up and just bust whatever I knew,
and he stopped the music and he pointed at me
and said, you're going to be the choreographer and you
two are going to be the dances because you adapted
to the situation the best. And I was like okay.

(20:31):
And literally Rosie Perez had to tell me how she poked.
She called me out the blue and was like, you
have to call your sofa choreographer and you have to
charge for that, and I'm just like ah, So I
went and looked up how to spell the words. I
didn't even know how to spell it.

Speaker 7 (20:50):
Did she helped me figure out how much to charge.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
Well, then I got an agent to help me.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
How hard was it to navigate toxicity treatment in the
late eighties and early shit, if I really want to
keep it a but maybe up until until twenty nineteen,
now twenty three, yesterday, yesterday, tomorrow and tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
Okay, yeah, I mean it was tougher when I was younger.
You know, I got my shirt snatched off from a
rapper while I was on tour with Big Daddy Kane
and jay Z at the time was his hype man,
and he had to calm me down and you know,
make sure I was okay. So it was wild, but

(21:42):
most guys, you know, most guys were respectful. I think
when alcohol too much, alcohol and drugs kind of got involved,
and that's where you just had to watch the room.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
You know.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
It was all fun and games until you know, someone
drank a little too much and then you had to
be like, Okay, I think it's time to exit. I
think I'm you know, so it was really just about
being aware of your surroundings and not just not doing
dumb stuff.

Speaker 7 (22:10):
You know, how does that translate as the mother hitting it?

Speaker 5 (22:13):
Because as a choreographer from the outside, it always it
also feels like you're somewhat of a mother hen to
all the other dancers.

Speaker 7 (22:20):
So how do you deal with I guess I want.

Speaker 5 (22:24):
Say, mentoring them in that way or protecting them in
that way.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
I mean, the only way to describe it is like
a Beth hand partisan, like someone a figurehead to make
sure that you guys are okay.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
No, no, we've been looking out for ourselves, looking out
for ourselves.

Speaker 5 (22:44):
Did you have to become that person? That's what I
was asking, like, did you have to become that person
for dancers at a certain point in your career?

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah? I think I think we all look out for
each other. And yeah, I mean there's times where the
dance just do need someone to speak up for them.
So I do you know, I often do that, But
I think now it's such a well doiled machine. I
kind of already have preempting the things that could happen,

(23:11):
and I you know, we we have writers, we have
things that you know, to make sure that they're comfortable
in the room and all that kind of stuff. So yeah,
but in the beginning, in the beginning, in the beginning
of it, you know, we didn't have nothing. We were
just figuring it out.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
Uh, were dancers unionized back then, No, they were.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
You were in SAG, but you had to do a
certain amount of TV work to get into SAG, and
eventually we all did because of great shows like the
Arsenio Hall Show and in Living Color and stuff like that,
we would you know, we would get put into the union,
which was awesome. Yeah, but see music videos and stuff,

(23:56):
none of those were unionized, so that was like a
slide scale of a rate. You only got that union
work whenever you did TV and things like that. But
if you were on tour, you know, it was kind
of you were fighting for what your weekly rate was
going to be.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
I see. So again, like if you're with a I
don't know who in the late eighties and early nineties
was Jankie in terms of like did we get our
checks yet? Did we get yeah?

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Brown?

Speaker 3 (24:28):
What this sort I'm asking though? Would you have to
deal with Lou Silas or would you have to deal
with Bobby Brown?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Or his managers or yeah, we.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Would have to deal with managers. I'd have to deal
with I remember we he flew us out because he
was really territorial with his dancers. And so we were
in Atlanta and we were living in a wing of
the house and you know, he was dating Whitney and
I just remember like he gave us a three hundred
z to drive. So it went all to all the
clubs and it was great. But I was like, you know, cool,

(24:57):
we'll come down, but we have bills, so you have
the pair like our carnos and stuff. And he's like yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so the cards came around and he didn't pay,
and I was like, we gotta go packed up those bags.
And I was like, there's a certain mixed a lot
of video we got audition for late we did missed.
We missed the audition, but it was baby got back.

Speaker 11 (25:19):
What no, yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's it's all kinds
of stories.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Man.

Speaker 7 (25:30):
I'm sorry, quick dancer check in. You said Bobby Brown.

Speaker 5 (25:33):
Remember they kind of had the faid So that was
that was That's who that wait, that was who there
was there was his dances.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
I was just curious about I was gonna say with
the Bobby album though, you guys said that Soultray in
episode where it was like twenty on stage, correct, I'm
one of those. I just I can't even imagine the
time period in which no one thought about budget or
everything was just load and gying and big and all

(26:11):
those things. Yeah, well, what would you what would you
say is your first real professional for rate into music videos?

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Definitely remember the time. I mean I was twenty one
when I did that.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
One, So that was your first video?

Speaker 4 (26:28):
No, that was my first, Like that was what put
my name into a lot of people's mouths. You know,
I was choreographing beforehand. But when I did that, because
that was a event that people sat down with their
families and watched together, you know, it was definitely something
that was I didn't even I don't think going into it.

(26:51):
I was so excited to work with Michael. I loved
him growing up. Our birthdays were the same day. I
wanted to send them flowers when his hair cut off fire,
begging my mom please. You know, I was in love
with him like that, and so to do this video
was really I had to kind of, you know, grow
up really quickly in that moment, and but it was

(27:13):
really when it came out, was just like wow. But
the wild part about it is I had to go
back to dancing, you know, for the Mary J. Bliges
and the R and B and hip hop artists that
I knew of the past. I could have like had
ego and then like, oh, I'm at the top, where
do I go now? And I went right back to
hip hop.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
He described the whole process, like how long did it
take the phone call?

Speaker 2 (27:38):
And how how did you map out what?

Speaker 3 (27:40):
What was it going to be?

Speaker 4 (27:43):
Well? John called me and you know, he was describing
the video and how it's going to be Egyptian and
he has a mom and Eddie Murphy and Magic Johnson
and I'm like hmmm, and he's going through the whole concept.
I'm like mm hmm, okay, wow, it sounds great. And
we go to get off the phone. I was like, wait, wait, wait,
who's the artist? And he says, I guess he thought

(28:09):
I read the trades or something or just happened, you know,
I knew, and he said it's Michael Jackson and I
went okay, okay, and then I got off the phone.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
I was like.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
I was running around my house.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
Now when he ran it down to you, did he
say that it was going to start with like the
recreation of the Coming to America situation? Because I really
want to know from the nitty to the gritty about
this video that was.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
Already in there. And it's funny. I was cleaning out
my storage and it was scripted and it had storyboards
to it. You know, I have the original script of
the Remember the Time video that I kept all these years.

Speaker 7 (28:49):
Did the John Singleton thing you see?

Speaker 5 (28:51):
That would have been so dope to see? So okay, okay,
go Ahea'm sorry. I have major questions about remember that?

Speaker 2 (28:59):
So, like how many days did you have to prepare?

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Like how do you even figure out like what Egyptian
moves to do in the story?

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Well, because at the time I had been going back
and forth working in New York, going to the clubs
in New York, clubs in La I really I loved
do to Stretch and Henry and like all those dancers,
and I knew I wanted them to be a part
of it because they brought a whole nother flavor to it.
And so you know, we had auditions.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
By the way, they're from the Latin Quarter.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yes, we had auditions and it was hundreds of dancers
down the street, and I just I couldn't believe it.
I had never been involved in something so big. It
was the first time I had hired so many dancers.
I think we hired fifty dancers, and you know, you

(29:52):
do the auditions from there, you whittle it down.

Speaker 7 (29:56):
Hold on, let me pause you.

Speaker 5 (29:57):
Right before you talked about the dancers, however, you made
sure that there were specific dancers in the building for sure.

Speaker 7 (30:06):
Can you talk about it?

Speaker 4 (30:08):
Well, I definitely wanted all the hip hop dancers who
were doing things at the time, you know, Josie and
Leslie and Hitch, my dance partner, and then some of
the girls who danced for Bobby was in there with us,
and then Stretch brought his whole crew with loose joints
and all the all the dancers you know, came because

(30:29):
we wanted it to feel authentic to our our vibe,
you know, and we just had fun. You know, Michael
doesn't like to count when you dance. He likes to
emulate the beat. He brings in this big speaker, so
you really feel the music in your chest and so
you know, you instead of counting like one, two, three, four,

(30:53):
five and six seven. You have to like you have
to you know, emulate the beat. And I love that.
And he really set the tone for my professionalism. You know.
He was just such a perfectionist, and you know we
were urgos. You know how virgos are, guys, Michael Beyonce like,

(31:18):
we're all we're like perfectionist freaks. So it was wonderful.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
I watched Michael work out with Casper and Jeffrey Daniels,
Casper and I forget the third person that's in that
that trilogy when they were working on the Bad Video,
Like they all worked together.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
They were trying out ideas.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Mich was set up with the tripod and they were
just basically dance battle and piecemeal what was going to happen? Yeah, One,
how are you putting that together? Two, the dancers that
you're choosing, Like, if I'm assuming what I call the
five six, seven eighths, like anyone from like the Lester

(32:05):
Wilson School of dancing, the previous Michael generation, Lester Wilson,
Michael Peters, like professional Broadway choreographers. If you're dealing with
dancers who are more in street oriented how does the
memory work? Because even when I'm giving songs, like I
gotta listen to that shit like at least twenty times before,

(32:27):
Like are you videotaping it? Yeah? Way, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
We didn't really have that back in the day. No,
we we used to have. Gosh how many we may
have had, like a whole week of rehearsal with that,
whereas now I maybe get a week of rehearsal to
do a whole damn show, you know. Oh yeah, I know,
things move slower. Back then we were working with We

(32:54):
were working with cassette tapes. You have to rewind the
music play.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Know.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
I laugh at dancers now because everything is so digital fast,
like you have to everything is quit like this instant,
and so it was just a different pace. And what
I loved is Michael was just down to learn, Like
he wasn't trying to like do what he's done in

(33:23):
the past. He wanted to get all of because he
couldn't go to clubs to see where this dance was
all being done. We turned the dance studio into a
club so that he can experience that. You know, we
put on other music and hang out and just have
fun and dance.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Well, y'all like dance, circle, battle and all that stuff, just.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
Dance yet all of it. He loved it.

Speaker 9 (33:51):
I wanted to ask for team, what your comment earlier about,
you know, how now everything moves faster. What effect do
you see like took and social media having on a dance.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
I actually love it because it keeps dance alive. You know,
it used to be, you know, dance steps were getting
shared in the clubs, or dance steps were getting shared
at barbecues, you know, as we were younger. But now
I love that dance steps are getting shared on platforms

(34:24):
like TikTok. It's definitely easier for me in my life.
Like I can literally sit with my team and we
can laugh and learn all life. It is so much
fun to go through all the dances and what's happening
right now, what the kids are doing. Like the fact
that I have an insight to that through my phone

(34:45):
is so amazing. So I feel like it allows me
to stay current. No, and I love it.

Speaker 9 (34:51):
Do you have any in your personal life free time?
Is there any particular style of dance that you like,
you know, if it's salsa or you know, anything like ballroom,
anything like that.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
You know, I used to take different styles of dances
to go with my natural movement. Like for the Aliya video,
I took flamenco classes to go with that. I felt
like argue that somebody. I felt like Timberland's beats had
that flamenco sound to it. I did a tangle with

(35:27):
doctor Dre before. So I've used to take classes right right, So,
but now I'm not doing all that. I got assistance,
I got, you know, people I lean on for I'm
you know, it's like an athlete, Like my body is sore,

(35:51):
you know, I like, I'm just too stepping. I'm like,
I'm like, I'm telling people, I'm gonna do this once.
You better watch.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Two steps.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
My sister's drill it and drill it and drilling. I'm
not doing all that. But every now and then I
get to go to clubs or especially if i'm if
I'm outside of l A, I definitely still love to
feel what's going on, what people are responding to musically,
and how they're moving in the clubs and stuff. So

(36:22):
I still go out every now and then just to
check it out.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
Like once you jump into that pool and the only
compare it to is DJing like I'm now realizing that
I'm now three generations removed from the music that I'm
used to. So it's almost like now I'm just studying,
like I'm now the DJ I hate, where like I

(36:48):
will go to a night club and xam everything and
study what the kids are listening to. That sort of thing.
For you, though, how are you able to know what's
ahead of the curve, Because I'm also certain that you're
dealing with looking in your rearview mirror at like, oh,
who's behind me? Like who might get that job or

(37:11):
that sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
Yeah, no, I'm not worried about what nobody else is doing.
And I actually train them and then they I train
them and let them go. And so all my proteges
are like, you know, AJ came from my camp, who
did usher? Charm came from my camp? Who did you know?
Does do on weekend? And all the folks and so

(37:33):
Sean Bankhead came up under me, and so it's it's
I love doing that, I love being a mentor and
all that and go. But really, for me, that's the
I think that a mirror is like you're tapped in
and you stay curious, and so am I you know,
I'm tapped in. I know when things are shifting, when
culture is shifting. When like I see it, I can

(37:57):
sniff it out, you know, and I'm like, ooh, what's that?
Oh what are they doing? You know? And so for
me even and I also I also hire specialty people
in that, Like I just did Burner Boys, so I
made sure they brought somebody in from Nigeria with them.
And then I brought this girl in from New York

(38:17):
who she's a young girl who's she's African American, but
she came in and just knew all the afrobeat dances.
So that was our warm up. Our warm up was
all the afrobeat steps and I let her lead the
warm up. And so really I kind of bring the
club to me. And then that way all the dancers
like show me what's new, and they, you know, keep me,

(38:40):
they keep me fresh.

Speaker 5 (38:42):
When did you really become the fan of dance to
where you started exploring in your journey. I watched the
interview where you were talking about doing one of the
Black Eyed Peas videos and you look into the Indian
and Thai dance. But I'm curious because you mentioned that
like you didn't study it, and you just went to work.
So at some point you started opening your mind too.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah. One thing that I wanted to do from the
very beginning is I went to an event. It's so funny,
this is so wild. I just gave mister Copeland an
award the other night, and when she came out into
the stage, she did a bow to me, and I
almost lost it because when I was younger, I would

(39:25):
go to events like that and people would introduce me
as a choreographer and someone would say, oh, where did
you Where did you study? And I'm like, oh, I'm
self taught. I'm a hip hop choreographer, and they're like oh,
and they walk away from me. And they just didn't
see hip hop as a true art form of dance.
And so I was on a mission of how that

(39:46):
was my goal, Like people were gonna appreciate hip hop
the same way they appreciate all these other dances styles
that have been here forever. Because once I the minute
I entered into the and minute I decided I was
going to be a choreographer, I started going to African
dance class and that's when I realized how close hip

(40:07):
hop was to our lineage of African dance that actually
we would do moves and I'm like, oh my god,
it's the same thing, but it had meaning to it
and all the things. So for me, exploring other styles
of dance, other styles of street dance to me as well,

(40:27):
just to mix with my version of street dance. And
one of the reasons too, why I'm a choreographer is
because I wasn't I'm self taught. I did not come
up trained, so it was harder for me to catch
on to routines. Tony Basil gave me my first audition
for Young MC when I was seventeen years old, and.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, was it bust the whole.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
It was. I believe I was auditioning for the tour.
I did bust the move Yeah, but she was and
all the hip hop clubs back in the day strong
and so so I just really I wanted to venture
out and learn new things, like I took belly dancing

(41:14):
because hip hop is so you know, it's so hard
and you know and tough, and you know the movement.
I wanted to soften my movement up and learn how
to teach a female artist how to be pretty and soft.
So I took belly dancing classes where the arms and
the hands were so elegant and beautiful. You know, I

(41:36):
wanted to offset it with hip hop. So that was
just something that I decided to do because I wanted to,
you know, explore different ways of movement.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Were you able to form any sort of bonding with
like the Bill T. Joneses, or the Paul Kelly's, or
the Charlie Atkins or the Jameson like.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
James When did they bow down and say you even
Jeffrey Holder, like Jeffree.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Older, Jeffree Holder.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Jeffree Holder, Were you ever?

Speaker 4 (42:14):
No?

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Is it hard to penetrate that that club?

Speaker 4 (42:17):
It was a it was a club, and they were
not feeling they weren't thinking about me.

Speaker 7 (42:21):
This is but you know, this is strange.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
No, I was gonna say, I see Michael Peters driving
every now and then.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
I'd be like, you're taking their jobs away from it.

Speaker 5 (42:32):
But did you know, like Michael Peters whole like hip
hop connection, and then for sure in the whole Prodigy.

Speaker 7 (42:38):
Thing and Ben Vereen and the things, I didn't even
be Yeah, okay, So that's just it's just interesting.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
That they didn't connect me, even with Debbie Allen in
a different world and Jasmine Gott and all the things
you would have.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
Jasmine was a friend of mine, Jasmin connected with me,
Jasmine connected with me.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
You directed that try may video.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
That's try all right? We know you the smartest motherfucker
filler cut man, I know that was That was the
one jot let go.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
No. I was young, and it wasn't even like I
was taking their jobs. They just weren't in the world
of hip hop. I was going to jack the rappers
and and making a real with my There was the
host of this show called Putting on the Hits, yes back.
He used to make reels for actors and I found
him and I had n't make a Corey a dancer

(43:40):
reel for me. And I would go to jack the
rappers and hand it out to the executives and stuff.
These people weren't in this world at all. They do
they didn't know anything about.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
So could you talk about then, your relationship with Rosie then,
because you did mention her.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
Yeah, so Rosie was right before me, and you know Rosie,
she before Paradise, there was a club funk what was
it called reggae funk or funky reggae some So that's
where Spike Lee saw her dancing in the club and
put her in, you know, do the right thing. So

(44:19):
we kind of had a little bit of the same
journey in a way. And because she did in Living Color,
like she was on the posts of hip hop and
she was in it, so she was the one person
that would you know, call me out of the blue
or that person that I can you know, ask questions two.

(44:41):
So it was Rosie for me.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Have you ever been in this situation in which you're
finding out oh maybe maybe like an hour before that
your client might have two left feet?

Speaker 4 (44:56):
No, you have rehearsals, So you find that out in rehearsal,
and then you just know how to build it all
around them. But what I do best is pull out
things that they just didn't even realize that they had
in them. And I I'm really good at designing things
around people. But some people don't you know, don't want

(45:19):
to dance and don't feel it, you know, And so
I don't push and make people dance. I kind of
I'm focused on the entire show and not like trying
to force you to do something you don't want to do.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
All right, my last remember the time question, because I
always wanted to know how much leeway does the artist
have to go freestyle because they also have to be
the artist and stand out front. Yeah, And so you know,
when I watch remember the time, I'll see him do
it for half a second, and then I'll see him
going to his regular Michael Jackson stick and occasionally I

(45:54):
remember specifically that point it was like half a second
way Michael started doing the yeah, when he was doing
like the prep or something, and I was like, oh,
he knows modern dancing, because you know, again, like Michael
Jackson is such a unique dancer.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
All of his moves are his own.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Yeah, to be shocked that he knows how to do
the rebok or the prep or him right, but he's
there for half a second. I always wanted to know,
is it a thing where you're just like, look, you
stand in the center, do what you do and we'll
dance around you.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Or is he like, no, I want to do the
dances that you guys are doing.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
Yeah. No, Michael wanted to do what we were doing,
so he was pretty fully choreographed. He had a moment
of we broke out into his thing, but he was
pretty choreographed the whole video.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
You know it's it's him, So how do you get
over just the inhale exhale, He's normal.

Speaker 4 (46:51):
Because you just know you have a job to do,
and you know this is like a pivotal point in
your growth and in everything. You just put all that aside,
at least for me, that's what I did, and you
go in and you do the job you were hired for.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
You know, it's going to be a hell of a
pivot question that asked. But I have to know the
answer to this question. Tell me, how were you not
on airplane after Rock the Boat was finished?

Speaker 4 (47:24):
That is a really good question because we were pretty
inseparable and I hung out with her a lot. It's
funny there was a record label guy had the only
phone that worked there. This was early, early on with
cell phone, so when you were out of the country

(47:44):
they didn't work. And I called my family this video
had come up, so last minute Rocked the Boat that
I was missing my grandparents' fiftieth wedding anniversary, and so
I everyone was in Arkansas and I was going to
go back to Atlanta, where I had a home, and

(48:08):
I used his phone to call my family and they
were all still in Arkansas. No one had gone back
to Atlanta, and we had had such a good time
on the beach the night before the bonfire and all
that that I just decided to stay.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Wow. Wow. And but in normal circumstances, you would have
been on that flight back.

Speaker 4 (48:34):
I was supposed to be on the plane.

Speaker 7 (48:36):
How long did it take you to answer this question
with such ease?

Speaker 4 (48:40):
I mean, it's been so long's yeah, I don't, I don't.
I haven't gotten asked some of Leah's stuff in a
long time. But I'm I'm healed over that. It was
a tough thing to go through, especially because I took
the phone call of it all happening, and I had

(49:03):
to call her mother, which was really and I had
my son was one years old, and to have to
call a mother and tell her something like that was
just it was a lot.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah, I hype had to stop for a good period
of time just to process.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Like, how long did it take you to process.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
Just to yeah? I think I kind of went heading
to work and tried to like just suppress it. And
I think it was later in life, but I also
I started to realize how I responded to death. I
was very I would shut down when it came to death,
and I didn't want to go to funerals ever, and

(49:49):
I would just have this very cold, shutdown thing when
it came to people dying, and so at a certain
point I had to deal with that because I knew
it was surrounded that situation. Is I like I shut
off something inside of myself in order to like keep
moving forward, because you know, a lot of times, even too,

(50:12):
people would come up to the street and want to
give me a hug, and like I would see it
in the eyes of so many people that I was around,
because I was, you know, just so close to her.
They just they just wanted a hug, and I understood it.
But it was really tough.

Speaker 9 (50:32):
You know, what was the working relationship like with the
Lee when you said we mentioned Billy dance and that's
what made me think, Yeah, so like, yeah, what was
that creative kind of partnership?

Speaker 4 (50:43):
Yeah, Lely was we were like synchronized swimming. If I
could be an artist, I would have been her. Like
I gave her everything, all of me, because it was
she was just so wonderful. Her voice was so incredible.
She was such an amazing dancer, but such an amazing person,

(51:05):
you know, and that's what was so hard about it.
It's just she was really really great and just so
young and had so much ahead of her, like we were.
I said goodbye to her and I was like, I'll
see you in La because we were taking our meeting
on the movie Sparkle that she was about to do.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
And wow, was going, oh wow, Yeah, I didn't know
she was going to start in Sparkle.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
Yeah wow, No, it's just things lined up, and so
it was. It was she was truly a special being.

Speaker 7 (51:38):
What was your most favorite thing that y'all created together?

Speaker 4 (51:43):
I mean I liked it all. I really did like
it all. Are you got somebody? It's so great, you know,
try again?

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Like it just resolution was actually my favorite videos.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
Really you need a resolution, You need a Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
It was a new herd, not like your kid's sister,
and like it was like a sophisticated snake and the whole.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I loved performing one in
a million. I love those beats like Timberland made you
just dance in a different way, you know when he
when he produced Aliyah and came on the scene. It
was like that's when Dan shifted, you know. The beats

(52:28):
were so incredible and you have to figure out how
to hit all those beats and you know, so fly.
But yeah, I was. I have all this old footage
because I've digitized now some of my stuff, so I've
been looking through and I have like rehearsal footage and

(52:50):
audition footage. I have footage just no one's ever seen
before of us back in the day. I know, a mirror.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
I had documented every choreographed no.

Speaker 4 (53:02):
Not everything, the earlier stuff. I had this video camera
everywhere I went, and then I kind of dropped off
and then you know, now my assistance and I we
kind of try and document it as much as.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
But document everything. Yes, no, I know I'm assuming that
your first pivot was directing. But is there a stop
in between choreographing and directing.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Yes, definitely. So for me, I always dance with the
artists that I worked with, So when Alia's videos, I'm dancing,
and a certain point I had to step out of
being a dancer and just be the choreographer so I
could see the bigger picture of everything. And that was
hard for me because I love to dance, but also

(53:48):
it was it was just a transition. And but once
I did it and stepped out. It really allowed me
to start understanding how so many other things make the
choreography so much better, wardrobe and lighting and props and
all of that. So I stepped out of there first.

(54:09):
And then when I was twenty five, I you know,
John would always try and get me in front of
the camera. A lot a lot of people were trying
to get me in front of the camera, and I
just wasn't. I go on auditions and I just wasn't
comfortable acting. It just didn't come from the heart like
dance did. And but I loved being behind the scenes.
So I went and took this course at New York's

(54:31):
Film Academy, and that's when I decided doing that course.
It was just an eight week, like ten hour a
day course. I was the one in class who had
been on so many sets and was like, Oh, that's
what that means, and that oh I understand now, Oh
that's why that takes so long.

Speaker 7 (54:51):
You know.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
It was such like, oh, I get it. And from
there I just went ahead, that's what I want to do.
I want to do I want to be behind the camera.
And my first video was mister Vegas Headtime. That's the
first video I directed.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Wow. Wow.

Speaker 4 (55:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (55:15):
So about one thing you talked about, you know, when
you turn twenty five, what is the average life span?

Speaker 4 (55:25):
Good question. Yeah, girls go to around thirty six thirty seven.
You know, some push it a little longer, but they
have to really do a lot of repair on their
bodies after sports. Yeah, it's the same way. And then
guys can go to like forty to forty, you know,

(55:46):
up in there in their forties. You know, there's something
that go longer. But yeah, I definitely around thirty six.
I was like, yeah, I'm good on this.

Speaker 9 (56:00):
Other question about one of your uh Mary J Blige,
because you whatever.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Are you responsible for the Mary J bo the Mary?

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Yes? Awesome question.

Speaker 4 (56:12):
Awesome, No, that's Mary. That's that's all Mary.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
That's the greatest question to ask of this damn podcast,
one hundred years of podcast. I wouldn't I wouldn't even
thought to ask that question. Maybe two or three weeks ago,
did you happen to see the Saturday Night Live clip

(56:43):
in which Julius Styles came on Weekend Update to recreate
or save the last dance? Oh my god? Oh yeah
it was well, I know you choreographed that. Yeah, but
I didn't even know that, dude, every thing.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
She's done everything, my president.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
Yeah, I did that one year.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Yeah, they know, they like it's it's It was a
thing in which one of the cast members, you know,
was was doing an ode to it, and then suddenly
Julia walked so next to her, and then they started
doing it, dance together and on that stuff.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't wait to see that. I'm
gonna look that up.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
Was that was that the first movie you've done? Your
first feature film?

Speaker 4 (57:36):
What's that my first feature? I think so other than
like dancing for stuff, uh, to choreograph, I think maybe
that was my first feature choreographing. I was responsible for
her having a little head wrap on.

Speaker 5 (57:54):
So we blame you for that that.

Speaker 7 (57:58):
Okay, you're lucky. It's twenty five I don't know. Okay,
twenty five years.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Don't even act like you weren't You weren't watching.

Speaker 5 (58:06):
Watch you know, I didn't watch that video. I was
way too militant back then.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
I was the word you were mmmmmm.

Speaker 5 (58:11):
But I appreciated it for what it was. That was
okay washing fatima, There.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
We go, There we go. It also gave permission to
a lot of young kids who were loving hip hop
in their homes to like actually get out and pursue
hip hop dance. You know, it was one of the
steps that I had to take to get hip hop

(58:38):
dance to be seen as a true art form of dance.
And that movie was huge and made.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
For the reason to hit the Suburbs. You're the reason
hit the Suburbs.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
Suburb between that and the Bakshi Boys, I take you know,
full responsibility. Oh, you did right, I did all that
boys stuff.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Yeh, don't don't know, dude. She also see I thought
the first video she directed was My Humps.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
I thought that was the first video you directed.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
But no, I know that basically you're the go to
You're the first step with anyone with a with a budget.
Can you tell me three videos that you had to
say no to that later became like sort of iconic level,
like have you said notice something that that you regretted

(59:32):
saying no to?

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Well, she missed the audition for Baby Got Back.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
That was tough.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
But I remember I was not too long ago looking
through for an email and saw something in my or
from my agent, and I clicked on it and it
said there's a movie that they want you to come
take a meeting for something like La La Land And
my respond maris response was I'm way too busy. I

(01:00:01):
can't do that right now. And I forwarded back to
my agent like can you believe I said that.

Speaker 8 (01:00:13):
Yeah, can we talk about musicals for a second, but
just can we parlay into the Color Purple show? I
was just I was thinking, like the average music videos
like three and a half minutes long, Like the Color
Purple is three and a half hours long, Like what
is the what is your mindset choreographically and or storytelling
wise to make a complete arc of that whole thing.

(01:00:35):
I'm always amazed at how choreographers and or composers under
whoever just sort of make all of that sort of
happen and conceive of it like one thing. You know,
there's so many different numbers and so many different moves
and so many different things, but it does feel like
a canon in itself anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
Speak to that, yeah, I mean you start with the script,
you know, and with Color Purple, because they had done
it as a Broadway play, there was music, but Blitz
really went in there and you know, worked with a
lot of incredible artists and elevated the music so that it,

(01:01:11):
you know, it had a little more modern feeling to it.
And because in particular Color Purple is a period piece,
there's not a lot of dance out there to even
emulate like what would be done then. But I kind
of took the creative liberty to say, you know, it
all comes from African dance, and if we you know,

(01:01:34):
you can look back and find bits of every modern
dance that we do now in African dance. And so
I just kind of gave each number, you know, a feeling,
a mood, a joy of a kindred brotherhood for like

(01:01:56):
uh huh, you know when they were building the house
and all the working together and that was nice. That's
going back to you know, step in when men are
all stepping other and fraternity. I just kind of went
through a bunch of different, you know, styles of Black dance.

(01:02:17):
But then also I kind of we're so expressive as people,
and you know, like when you get into hell No
with Danielle Brooks and at the end when the ladies
all kind of gang up on her and then they
all roll ay neck. You know, when a black woman
starts rolling her neck and she has had it up
to here with your ass. So it was kind of

(01:02:39):
you know, I took just our even natural movements that
we do, you know, and made them into dances. And
so it's a it's a journey when you're doing musical
like that because it's a lot of hard work and
each number needs its own special attention. And you know,
our goal for that movie, and I think we really

(01:03:01):
accomplished it is like how do you get out? How
do you start the music and start the dance so
it's not jarring and it's not taking you out of library.
So that that was the important for me. It was
when I walked into the room, story led first, and
then the dance had to support the story. And a

(01:03:22):
lot of times, you know, people were just dancing to
be dancing, and that's not what I was trying to do.
The story it had to all make sense, you know,
if we were it should was coming to town and
what is that town gonna look like back in the
day where that town should have a shoe shop? And
then it's gonna have a barber shop, and then they're
you know, they got the groceries stand outside like and

(01:03:45):
I create all that stuff in the rehearsal studio with
the skeleton crew of dancers and give them something. But
where I am now in my career, even with this one,
in particular for Color Purple, we choreographed it and then
shot it way I wanted to look, with close ups
of the feet and overheads and you know, all the

(01:04:05):
things and editor and then I gave it to the
directors like here's russall. But you know, that's what choreographers,
the good choreographers, that's what we do when we get hired.
We're just natural directors really, and and I love that
I had a director who trust in that vision. But
I have this great story to say. You know, Blitz

(01:04:27):
told me and Ghana when he was in high school,
they had a talent show and eighty percent of the
people did for their talent Aliyah's are you That's somebody
him and I know, and so he just vowed to
work with me one day. And I just feel like
Aliyah put us together, and it's so wonderful.

Speaker 5 (01:04:51):
It was wonderful to see your touch on that movie,
because no matter what the dance was, you also still
felt hip hop always, always, always.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
I'm gonna play a rapid fire around with you, Okay,
which client of yours?

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Is the fastest learner.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
Aliyah was the fastest learner.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Which client of yours is the most I won't say
anal retentive perfectionist?

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Which kind of yours wants to rehearse their spontaneity?

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
Beyonce is perfectionist.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Meaning you have to go through over and over and
over again to muscle memory or no, she.

Speaker 4 (01:05:41):
Catches on quick too, but she's just perfectionist. Like she
goes back and like we go back and work on
it and work on it, and you know she's still
working on the show. Is renaissance was going on and
she still had rehearsals.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Wow like that, Wow, okay, superstar?

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Yeah, all that I see? Which client who's not no
dancing is so you like, is really under selling their
talent of dancing?

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
Buster Rhymes can dance his ass off?

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
He can't, Yep, I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:06:19):
Eyes can see the last that last when they're in
the black lights. See he's dancing and he came to
rehearsal and he learned steps and he was like he
threw his his two way across the room. Was like,
I'm Michael Jackson up in here dances ass off, and
you know who else can dance good.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
Yes, she can, she can. We just wrapped these things
down and we get to going.

Speaker 4 (01:06:47):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
I was going to ask, who is your shyest client,
because dancing is a that's that's a form of vulnerability
that you know, because you're always worrying on like people
watching me. And I mean, that's what got to give
it up is about I'm afraid to dance in public? Client.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
I don't know. Shy is really so?

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
No one ever held back?

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
No. I feel like people, if you could dance, you
kind of get shy. Isn't the word I don't know, shy, reluctant.
I wouldn't even call it reluctant. Like I love working
with Kendrick because he loves movement and dance and respects it.

(01:07:36):
But he's not necessarily out there trying to do steps
with the dancers. He's going to bring his own energy
and vibe to it, and then I build around it,
and then we sit and look at it, and then
we build together. You know. I love giving him a
little template to go off of for him to respond
to and then you know, do something great.

Speaker 7 (01:07:58):
He can give us an example, super bowld.

Speaker 4 (01:08:01):
They gave me an image of all those boxes and
it was then overhead shot of the boxes, and it
was like, that's kind of what we want to create.
And so then from there I got to use my imagination,
or how do these boxes come to life? How do
we get the boxes off the stage? Do we stay
with the boxes?

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
And we do?

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Like where does he live inside of the boxes? And
you know all of that, And so I love I
love how his mind works and things, but I wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Call all right. So I always think of this the
next time you watch jay Z's Can I Get a
I was absolutely amazed that he basically just stands in
place in the middle and only moves his arms in
his shoulders.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Yeah, I mean, the entire world is.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
Dancing around him. And I always wanted to know what
happens when you're giving a client that, like do you
have to figure out the math formula? Like how much
to supplement? Like okay, they're not given me much in
terms of Because the thing is, we do tend to
think of jay Z as a charismatic, but it's almost

(01:09:09):
like in that DeNiro level where he holds back from
that charisma.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
Yeah. No, yeah, some people I respect that. Some people
just don't want to dance. You know, I'm not here
to make everybody dance.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
You know, So what's your favorite medium?

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
Then? Because you've done commercials, on videos, you've done half times,
you've done award shows, Yes, what is your favorite medium?

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
Age performances like concerts and why concerts are my favorite?
Like you know, when I the Renaissance was was amazing
and I love the way you can manipulate the arena, stadium,
whatever you're in theater, with the new with the dance,

(01:10:02):
with the way the songs are laid out. Like I
just love watching people have such a wonderful time live
and it always takes me back to my childhood of Jackson.
Five was my first tour, and I remember like laying
out my clothes a week in advance, and like just

(01:10:24):
the preparation to it. And I remember having the seat
way up, way up there, and that was my seat
and they were super small, but I was up there
screaming and jamming and dancing and my heart out and
it was just the best experience for me. And so
I just always whenever I do live shows, I think
about those people that are way up there, and it's

(01:10:47):
something that I do with every concert that I work on.
I look up to see and if those people are
jumping and screaming and dancing the same way the people
who have front row seats are, then to me, I've
done my job right. And I just love live. It's
unpredictable and it's amazing and people cry. I cry, and

(01:11:11):
it's just you go through the gamut of emotions at
a at a really good live show, and I just
love it.

Speaker 9 (01:11:17):
I wanted to ask when you're casting and stuff, like,
you know, what separates a good dancer from a great dancer?

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Like what are you looking for?

Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
I'm really We dancers have to learn a combination really quickly,
so we teach it, they learn it, we break them
up and pieces. You know, a lot of times it's
it's it's their danceability, but it's also like their height
and their their size, and if they fit with the
other dancers and they create like it's a whole you know,

(01:11:51):
tetris game of things we're playing around with, and but
what really makes I think a great dancer? And I
always even though they learn the choreography and they have
to do the combination, I always ask them to freestyle afterwards,
because to me, there's where the gold is when they
start freestyling, and they move their body in a way

(01:12:14):
no one else moves. They dance with such joy on
their faces. You know, we look for that, and that's
what really makes a great dancer, when you can just
tell their love of dance, but also they've worked and
found the things in their body that's so unique and
that they're going to inspire me when I'm in the

(01:12:34):
room working.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
You know, for me, your best gift is de escalating
any potential disasters.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
And the way that I've seen you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Literally with like I'm telling you my stomach was it
not because I'm waiting for this fight to set off?
And you know, because a lot of my questions in
our group chat was like, Yo, what happens when blah
blah blah s he's blah blah blah blah. And you
were like, Okay, don't worry, Mirror, I'm gonna bring out.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
Coach coach Robinson.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
And so, what what is your You've always seemed like
a zen person to me, but you you are extra
zen in the last four years that I've seen you,
So yes, what is your more?

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
What's your morning routine?

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
How did you get to this zen place where you
can handle a renasce you were handling renaissance and hip
hop fifty at the same time.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
And this is coming from a guy that has ten
jobs making meditation an editor movie right now, So like,
what is it? What is your secret?

Speaker 4 (01:13:51):
I think I've always been a pretty calm person. You know,
when I wake up in the morning, sometimes I do
this tea serum as a meditation. Sometimes I do that.
I mean, living in Ohi, I live down a road
where there's no other houses and there's no power lines

(01:14:13):
and there's no neighbors, and so I get to wake
up without like the home and noise of the city.
And definitely moving to Ohi, I've kind of re wired
my nervous system to just I There's there's places that
I go and holidays that I take where I remember

(01:14:36):
that that piece that I find there, and I just
kind of like take it and and so I release
little peace like that I've captured. And in those moments,
it's because I've seen it so many times. Everything is
gonna work out. It's just the process. And everyone has

(01:14:57):
a process of how they get to point A to
point B. Really everyone, you know, it's like Shakira's processes,
like like this and the Kanye's processes, like you know,
you know like that and some people's process is just
a little easier and you're like, okay, but it's like
knowing there is a goal and that finish line what

(01:15:19):
we're trying to achieve. And I always kind of try
and make too, like what am I try and achieve here?
Like what's the goal? So that I always give myself
like something to you know, to thrive to, you know,
and achieve. That really helps me. And yeah, but I

(01:15:40):
just I mean, it's all gonna work out. And the
beauty about even you know, doing live TV and stuff.
I just love the unexpected and what could happen. I
don't love an artist dropping out, you know, an hour
performance and the show. No, I do not like that.

(01:16:01):
I think it's highly disrespectful to their peers and everything.
But you know, I've seen it all with hip hop,
and you know, we accept that hip hop is is
unique and and I just know how to deal with
all the temperatures of the attitudes and stuff. I'm like,
somebody in the room has to be calm about it.

Speaker 7 (01:16:23):
And so that's why I classroom scene was like perfection.

Speaker 5 (01:16:27):
That's why I was just perfection. It was organized, beautiful chaos. Yeah,
you're showing me I was talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
I was like, wait, what classrooms?

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
I mean, that was really that classroom scene. I'm like,
that's my you know that, that's my tribe. And so
I wanted to see them as much as possible, and
I didn't want to do the traditional like you come
out your song, you go away, you come out like
let's support each other and and you know a lot

(01:16:59):
of I do a lot of work on myself as
well a mirror, and it just in that work on myself,
I'm able to bring you know, that zen and peace
and all that to the performances. I mean, I love
Rick Rubin's book The Creative Act. Did you listen to
that one?

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Yeah? I got it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:19):
It's so amazing. I find myself I listen to a
lot of audio books because I have that hour and
a half drive, But I find myself kind of going
back to that book. Quight off me if I don't
have anything to listen to. He's just he just drops
some gems about where how the creative comes about and
how you find it and all the things, and so

(01:17:41):
you know, I listened to a lot of books that
actually helped me in how I communicate with people too.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
I can learn from that. Look. I started with the question,
and I guess you gave me the answer. And I'm
glad you care. Yeah, because you you have such a thankless,
highly stressful, a very risky job where you have to
be a people person and manage expectations and egos and

(01:18:16):
not now but right now, like you have walked through
the fire man and more and more power to you know.
I'm glad we finally have this conversation. Yeah, do we
ask everything about that?

Speaker 9 (01:18:30):
We got to talk about the director directorial debut that's coming.

Speaker 3 (01:18:34):
What can you share about it?

Speaker 4 (01:18:35):
Yes, Oh, well, it's a film and Universal. You know,
it's still my deal is done, but you know it's
going through its little rewrites and this and that. But
that'll be my first feature film and I'm ready. That's
the hopefully the next step for my career. And still producing.

(01:18:56):
I actually, you know, Jesse and them got me into
this producing world and executive producing.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
And I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:19:03):
Yes, Mom and Dad, Yes, tell us a couple of
projects we should look out for that you executive produce.

Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
Oh well, I was one of the executive producers along
with the mirror for Hip Hop fifty. I've produced the
Grammys before with them. I produced this Taking and Taking
the Stage, the Obama performance that it was a while back.
And so I'm enjoying it and I'm stepping more into
it and I think more and more opportunities. But you know,

(01:19:37):
I want to do my story. I want to do
my life like I'm the new thing. It's like everyone was.

Speaker 7 (01:19:43):
Thinking you was too young. I didn't know I was.
It was interesting because I was thinking story, but I
was like, she's so young.

Speaker 4 (01:19:47):
I haven't done the story yet, and I think it's
like someone needs to do the I grew up in
the clubs, clubs with my classroom. That's why I learned,
like all that the story of hip hop dance.

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
He's gotta we gotta find you a movie producer that
can actually make that happen. Yeah, somebody out here.

Speaker 5 (01:20:10):
That he's got to add to Honey out there. Honey
was the last one.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
I'm just saying, make it happen.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
Fatima, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
And and I'm not even like acting like it's good
to see someone that works harder than me, Like i
feel like I'm lazy compared to to you.

Speaker 5 (01:20:33):
So she she knows how to relax though too looks yes,
she knows how to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
I don't know what that is anyway. Thank you very
much on behalf of Sugar Steven New Bill Brand New Bill.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
Steve and like you and of course.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Our guest Fatima Robinson is Quest Love, Quest Love Supreme
and we'll see you on the next GOGRAMD. Thank y'all,
This is Sugar Steve.

Speaker 6 (01:21:06):
Thank you for listening to Questlove Supreme. This podcast is
hosted by a Mere Quest Love Thompson, Liah Saint Clair,
Fonte Coleman, Sugar Steve Mandel and unpaid Bill Sherman. The
executive producers are a Mere Quest Love Thompson, Sean g
and Brian Calhoun. Produced by Britney Benjamin, Jake Paine and
Liah Saint Clair. Edited by Alex Conroy. Produced for iHeart

(01:21:30):
by Noel Brown.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
We'st Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For
more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.