Joan Jett

Joan Jett speaks to Questlove Supreme about her time with The Runaways, making hits with The Blackhearts, and her decision to create a new acoustic collection.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
The Ladies and Gentlemen. What's Up? This is Quest Love
suit Way. I believe is this our first Quest Love
Spreme back together since it like last April, since the

(00:21):
Oscar I feel like I've not spoken to you. Yeah,
I think this is the first one we did, like
one episode or something like that. But yeah, I was
about to say like this, it's been a long time.
We've been doing a bunch of one on ones. But
I'll start off our episode with people by saying that
because the ungodly amount of hours that I've spent at

(00:42):
the Windwood train station or taking the one of five
and the one of three bus to my insurance job
to pay for a demo, I feel just a little
bit more connected to our guest today than any than
any other guests that's been philadelph Via adjacent. I'll put
it that way. Now, I got excited. I get excited

(01:05):
when any Philly adjacent guest comes on to yea Quest
of Supreme. Uh. And no matter how much New York
tries to claim you, I know for a fact that
you did hard time at Montgomery County. Yeah, you know
once once in Philadelphia and always Philadelphia. Any who Philly
and I lived in Pittsburgh and I lived in Erie ends.

(01:28):
Let's use yends. My mother is from Pittsburgh, so yeah,
I am definitely have shared a fair share family members
that you know have have educated edge macaated me on
just life in Pittsburgh in general. Um, I'll say that
our guest today. Um, of course it's a legendary singer,

(01:51):
legendary songwriter, producer, Let's not forget a kick gass guitarist.
Group member of two legendary units. Um. First, of course
coming to us as a member of the Runaways, a
band who pretty much defied all logic and stucted their
guns and pretty much had inspired a generation of musicians

(02:14):
and creators around the world. Um. And of course the
second band needs no introduction. Of course, I'm speaking of
her namesake, John Jett and the Black Hearts, Uh Class
of two thousand fifteen Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
What could I say without her? You know, I don't
even want to limit it. Just just there's no riot
ral movement. There's just there's there's a whole uh portion

(02:38):
of of of part rock and punk and a lot
of post late eighties early nineties bands that formed in
l A that I really want to existed without our
guest today. So, without further ado, welcome Joan Jett to
Quess Love Supreme. So were you talking to us? Uh
right now? Were you un home in New York and

(03:02):
on Long Island at the beach? You're still Long Island? Yeah,
well yeah, I live at the beach. Yeah, I'm looking
right on the water though, Like all right, you know,
I just I discovered I discovered UM in the pandemic,
and I keep telling everyone, especially New Yorkers, this, and
they don't believe me. New York doesn't realize they have

(03:22):
their own Mahland Drive and they have their own Venice Beach.
Now you know I have not. There was a point
where I think the main train was gonna shut down
that leads to Williamsburg UM causing you know, I was
gonna shut down for like two years or whatever while
they did reconstruction, causing a whole borough to literally relocate elsewhere,

(03:47):
Like restaurants started shutting down and and all of them
basically relocated to Long Beach. So when a friend of
mine made me visit out there, I didn't know what
to expect like is personally expecting uh you know kind
of yeah Hawkins like post Bencent Hersey's you know whatever. No,

(04:12):
I went out there and it's like, yo, it is
the ship. It was. It was pretty beat up, like
when I moved here in nineteen seventy nine. So you're
like a loyalist. You've been there for everything. So what
do you do right after the Runaways broke pretty much
right after the Runaways broke up, which is seventy nine,

(04:32):
then I'm not my partner Kenny Laguna And what do
you make of it now? Because like literally it's like
if I didn't have to be in Manhattan at like
the drop of the dome, like I would actually move
out to Long Beach. Like it's it's they totally I
don't want to say just re gentrified, but they literally,

(04:54):
you know, they're making it. I don't know what you
wanna call it, Yeah nicer. Yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't
ready for that. So when I moved to it was
they just opened all the mental institutions or something. So
when I got here, they were crazy people walking all
over the place and you could I could have bought

(05:15):
my apartment for like twenty grand or something. But you
know those days are long. Prices is definitely going up.
So yeah, and now people want places like this so
even more so. Yeah, and anyone's like trying to sell
their house right now, and Long Beach can easily taking
high six figures that almost a million. Definitely, that's that's

(05:37):
where it is now. People are like headed out there.
So I started off each episode with the question, Uh,
what do you remember what your first musical memory wasn't
I can't be positive, but it would be remember not
the technical alright, alright, singing Mary had a little lammate
what I mean? But I think of my my father

(06:01):
playing classical music, or my parents listening to Johnny Mathis
to something like that Rank Sinatra. Okay, how how long
did you live in Uh? Well, technically you're born in Winwood, right, Yeah,
I was born in Lackina Hospital, so wherever that is.

(06:22):
I moved very early. I moved at like six months
old and moved to Pittsburgh, So I can't really say
I grew up in Philly. I was just born there.
So when you have memories of your childhood, what's the
city you think of? Maryland? I moved to Maryland from Erie,
Pennsylvania when I was eight. When I was eight, so

(06:44):
I moved. I lived in Maryland, Rockhael, Maryland from eight
to thirteen, so really formative years, you know, when you
come into your own I guess, you know, going from
being a kid to puberty and you know, all those
big changes that happened from might stay to eight to
your teen years. What effect does that have on someone

(07:05):
that you know, where you don't have actual roots, like
you kind of move every of the year, every two
or three years, Like what effect does that have on you?
As far as like, That's a good question. I wonder
how much of it I'm doing psychology on myself. I
was thinking about this the other day. How much of
it is my was my lifestyle from a very early age,

(07:29):
from being on the road, you know, just constantly moving
and also but growing up that way too, never really
being in long place, very long longest with Maryland when
I lived there for five years. So maybe you don't
really feel secure I've been making friendships or any kind
of relationships, so you know, I don't know. Maybe I

(07:52):
tend to keep people in arms length, you know, it's
something I'm unfriendly, It's just I'm up good with intimacy.
I suppose that's real. Do you have civilians or like,
what's that? It's it's well, I'm not good at faking it.
He man have. I have a brother and I have

(08:14):
a sister. They both still live in California. My brothers
in San Diego, my sisters in North Hollywood. Are you
the baby in the middle or the oldest? No, I'm oldest, okay,
the oldest. I'm out of here, oh instantly. You know,
when I was sixteen pretty much, you know, and I

(08:36):
and I left and formed the band and not really
at home much more after that. I think I see
I think I see the repercussions of that now later,
But I don't know if that's my lifestyle or it's
from not really having that connective family thing as the

(08:57):
result of movie. Was that because you were an army
brat or just my father was you know, my father
was an insurance man, so traveling insurance, traveling insurance man
in the olden days. That is that a real thing?
Was that at a hospital I went out to I
went out to to win Woods to sell insurance. So

(09:19):
I don't know, maybe I was like working for your father. Yeah, yeah,
But I guess, you know, they didn't have areas and
they'd go and I don't know if it was a
door to door. I really don't know. I didn't I
didn't discuss it with him that much. But that's that's
what my mother told me. Anyway, traveling traveling salesman. Okay,
so we moved around. Yeah, do you remember the first

(09:40):
album that you purchased with your own money? I should
know this. We're a single, were a single. They were
probably in Osmond Brothers. You have good thank you. You know,
often times maybe I shouldn't be that honest, for I
was gonna says most people get stuck with this because

(10:02):
I think for a lot of us, the answer is
always going to be an uncool answer, you know. I
think for the shut up Steve, because you know, I'm
thinking to my my owners, Yeah well no, you know
I would naturally tell people like, oh yeah, Jackson five
or whatever. But the real answer was Neil sadaka, how

(10:23):
how how's that going to look in print? You know
what I mean? Not great? Could have been the Chaps
at five too, I mean you know what I just um,
I just got done watching the movie that you won.
Thank Forwards four I've been. Uh, it is so great,
and it reminds me of growing up because I feel

(10:46):
like the music I grew up listening to was a
lot more diversified and a lot a lot blacker than
people would would even No, I suppose it just seemed
to be a lot, a lot of all those songs,
all those bands that were in that very familiar with

(11:07):
it all. But it feels like stuff I watched as
a kid. You know, I don't know, I loved it.
Thank you. Yeah, you know, I think for a lot
of people, you know, especially with this movie, the kind
of the underlying or the the the undertone of it
all is basically like this was. You know, it's easily

(11:30):
lost in history. It's set in basement for fifty years,
so you know, for it to to to get out
one was the miracle. But you know, to also just
let the world now about, you know, contributions to culture.
But thank you, thank you for completely. I appreciate that absolutely.
But even more than just the music, I see, you
know what they were saying about the change, you know

(11:50):
that they were wrote upon this this change that was
happening in society and just the way people looked at
themselves and stuff, and it was, you know, really quite
poignant my thought and really on you know, I appreciate that.
Did you come from a musical family like a cousin
or any of those things? Are I really think everybody?

(12:13):
I think if you gave them no to to answer
your question, no, nobody, not that they actualized. But I
believe because my family all tended to be creative but
never actualized. You know, they were too fearful or didn't
think it was their place or you know, like I
know my dad loved art and he loved the jaw

(12:35):
or paint and you should have done that, you know,
and you know my mom all those things. My brother
I know that he would have liked to play an
instrument but didn't pursue it. And I'm sure my sister,
you know, she's an artist too, she makes things with
her hands. So yeah, they all have that thing. But

(12:56):
I didn't really get the chance that I kind of
just grabbed and took. All right, So what was the
entry of or at least a moment that you felt like, Okay,
this is what I want to do, like the curiosity factor?
What what what was that moment for you? Hearing um
songs like the Bang of Gong by t Rex, just

(13:19):
hearing certain songs on the radio, all right now by
the Free because there was something that was a little
out of tune with one of the guitars on the
rhythm guitar, and something about that made me want to go,
I want to make those sounds. It was something that
connected with my bones, you know, with my my crotch,
and even as a little kid, I knew it. I

(13:40):
didn't know what the word was, but I knew that
resonated deep inside me, you know, and I wanted to
make those sounds. So I think, though I'm I'm just
lucky that the way my life moved, because it could
have been anything. I could have moved on to another
thing that I love. I mean, I loved horses as
they rode horses for a while. I mean the guitar.

(14:04):
My family. I got this guitar. I tried to learn
how to play it, but I didn't really have anyone
to play with, so I kind of just learned the
basic chords and put it down. Then my family catalog guitar.
Yes it is, yes it is. Everyone starts off with
okay no. And then my family moved to Los Angeles,

(14:24):
so now I'm like, Okay, now I'm going to a
place where there's got to be other girls who want
to do what I'm doing. It's got to be in
Los Angeles. It's gotta be other girls that want to
play mark and roll. And you know, I was right,
And I'm sure if i'd really looked around Maryland or
you know, any of the big cities are going to

(14:45):
d C, I would have found it too. But I
just wasn't thinking that way because all my magazines that
I was reading geared me towards Hollywood. Okay, Um, for
you though, you know how usual or unusual, especially in
your formative years, like was guitar encouraged or you know

(15:06):
oftentimes or was this someone like you might want to
do piano or the clarinet or like something that I
did in school, you know, but I wasn't very good
at it, and I wasn't I wasn't that interested. And
now I wish i'd Now, I wish I had paid attention,
you know, and that I had learned to play just

(15:27):
so I could read music, but you know, just to
be able to play other instruments. It was made to
feel quite inadequate. I just worked with the trombone shorty
and made me feel like, you see that guy on
a little little kid with a big trombone, you know,
but you know, now he's an older guy, but he's

(15:48):
just you know, he's one of those prodigy people. So
did you just learn to play just mainly by ear
or you still read using now just you know was
my records and stuff? Were you encouraged because I think
that yes, especially especially with anyone um with a woman

(16:09):
grabbing an instrument in the sixties and the seventies, um,
hell even eighties, almost like I'm certain that there has
to be some sort of figure there that says women
can't do that, and women, you know, everybody said that.
Nobody encouraged me. Nobody only my parents who told me
when I was a little kid that I could be

(16:29):
anything I wanted to be. So now they couldn't turn
around and say, well, you could be anything except a
guitar player. So you know, they just thought I'd grow
out of it, that I'd phase out of it and
going into something else, which I think I might have
happened had I not moved to California and been able
to find other other girls than maybe able to have
gone on to something else, but that didn't happen, and

(16:51):
I went to l A and nobody thought it was
a good idea. My guitar teacher said girls don't play
rock and roll, which I knew right away. What he if,
they want you to play acoustic instead, Yeah, like follow
Joni Mitchell or yeah, yeah, pretty much pretty much. But
I knew exactly what that meant. Girls don't play rock
and roll. So what are you saying to me? You're
saying girl, You're not saying girls can't master with the guitar,

(17:15):
because I'm in school, I'm playing clarinet. There's girls next
to me playing violin and cello, playing Beethoven and box
So you're not saying that you can't master the instrument.
What you're saying is rock and roll is sexual by
its nature, So of women or playing rock and roll
and singing rock and roll, they're singing about sexuality and

(17:39):
and they're owning it. And we're not comfortable with that.
And I knew that as a as a kid, even then,
I knew that that just you weren't allowed to it.
But I had something to do with sex, and it's
just like no, you know, because this is so not
about sex for me. I want to be able to
do this because I want to do it. You know,
Mick Jagger rides out on a big inflatable penis. I

(18:01):
want to do what the Rolling Stones do? You know
what had nothing to do with with that. It was
about fairness. I know it doesn't make sense, but it
was about quality and the right thing, what's right. I mean,
I'm not hurting people, you know, playing rock the woll
for brace sake, give me a break. So that that's
kind of fire that would fuel me on through through

(18:25):
all this stuff. See, I've never I've never had the
pleasure of having a conversation with anyone who you know,
it's pretty much either first out the gate or at
least in the pioneering, pioneering stages of starting a movement,

(18:46):
to to even ask them what their mind state is,
you know, because oftentimes you know, our our our greats
leave and you know before we get to ask them
about their process. And so you know, I always wanted
to know if because even when I was in high school,
like someone I think I was honest with one teacher

(19:06):
like what I was gonna do, Like I'm start a
band with that, and you know, I went to high
school with boys, two men, and they yeah, they were
like on fire, and you know, I'm sort of like, well,
you know, are you guys gonna be boys to men popular?
Are you're just gonna be one of these local accident?
You know, I wasn't thinking that deep about my process

(19:28):
or anything. I think he tried to talk me out
of like pursuing my career. So yeah, see, I don't
understand that about people. This is what I want to
know about people and dreams. You know, you're sitting there
shooting the ship with your friends and you say what
you said you want to play, and someone tries to
talk to you out of it. Right, Why is everyone

(19:49):
dear to try to talk to you out of it
as opposed to saying, yeah, man, that sounds interesting, go
for it, and at least if you don't make it,
you gave it a shot. You give your dream a shot.
What is that about people? I think some people get
offense or they get intimidated when they see that your
dreams don't include them, and so they just have to
ship down, you know what I mean. That's like if

(20:11):
I run a Hamburger stand. The last thing I want
you to do is become a vegan, you know what
I mean. Don't don't do that, you know what I mean.
But I also think that um, often times we're just
I think in America, we we often trained ourselves to
do this safe thing. Like I think hopefully my generation
is the last generation. What you're here like, fall back

(20:34):
on something safe, like I definitely heard that from every
uncle Covid. The show US ain't shit safe because do
what you want to do exactly. So what Okay, so
you're a musician in Los Angeles and you're young at
the time. Had this been you know, twenties two thousand
seven or whatever, you would have the aid of the

(20:55):
internet to help you. But what is the process of
finding what you're specifically looking for, which I assume are
women that play instruments and are passionate about it just
as you are, Like, so, what's the process of searching
for them? And at any point where you just like,

(21:16):
at least at least in the runaway stages, were you like, okay,
anyone male female can join or for you is it
like I had to find all women? Know and for
the runaways, it was definitely an all all women thing
because you know, we hadn't hadn't really been done, or
you know, if it hadn't been done, had been done
years earlier with full grown women, but not teenage girls.

(21:40):
And so I just had this thing and I wanted
to do it, and I didn't see a good reason
to change that that plan, you know, and give up
so easy, you know, saying, oh, this might be hard,
but you know, it's hard to think back and realize
how different it was then than it is now and
how easily you can reach out to people on the

(22:02):
phone on the internet. I mean, you're talking we had
rotary phones, you know, we're talking about phone books. We're
talking about you didn't get hold of people. You know,
if you got a hold of somebody, you met them
at a certain time, on a certain corner, but a
certain place. You know, there was none of this. So
fante right here. Fonte is probably to his family base,

(22:26):
probably most known for being one of the first musicians
to really take a take advantage of the I'll say
the positive aspect of internet colonization. Um. One of the
one of the bands that he started was a group
called Foreign Exchange, in which where is uh uh Nick? Now?

(22:46):
He's in Wilm right but at the time he was
in the Netherlands, and uh, we just recorded that and
we met on okay player on the Merror site, and
we just started trading files online back and forth with
and we complete an album. We didn't meet each other
until it was and that was until the didn't even
meet yet before they made a classic album, you know

(23:08):
what I mean. And so yeah, so you know what
what is the process of how do you find these
these feather if you will? Yes? In that time, I
believe what we did is we put an ad in
what was it d L a weekly okay maybe, and
we went out to a lot of the clubs that

(23:31):
I would hang out at and I would just survey
the crowd and look for girls. This around This would
have been seventy five, okay. So you're like like from
like after August, after August five, So all right, this
is what I have to know. You're in You're in California.

(23:53):
Were you a driver? Did you have a car? Oh?
I didn't drive, No bluses. I took a lot of bosses.
And also my mother was, you know, sort of complicit
in all this, so she uh would drive me to rehearsal.
She would take me to the club sometimes and pick

(24:13):
me up late at night. Yeah, yeah, she So clubs
weren't sweating like I mean, of course, now we live
in a place where you gotta show you know, damn
near twelve forms of idea to get in anywhere? Or
is your license claud bye webs? Who was it was
for teenagers. There was no booze, so to worry about that.

(24:34):
So there was no booze there. And I don't think
she was really thinking about drugs or anything like that.
Who were your were your any any of your contemporaries
also sort of in that movement that later became names
themselves like no not really once like Sherry and lead
to your band members sort of like coming to play?

(24:56):
How did you know that? Okay, this is this is it?
They're they're the ones. Well, we didn't have that many choices,
number one, you know what I mean, So it was
more like do we want to try? Well, first it
was it was the drummer and myself, Sandy West and
I we mentioned yeah, and so we were solid as hell.

(25:17):
Sandy and I I took four busses at her house
in Huntington's Beach, four and we yeah, four busses and
I set up in her wreck room and we played
you know, some just basic Chuck Perry rock and roll
progression and said, you know, it was really good. Sandy
played with a lot of guy, you know, high school

(25:38):
band kind of things, and so she was used to
playing with bands, but usually guys. So we really locked
in and we called Kim Fowley who was our producer,
who became our producer, and said, hey, check it out,
put the phone down, played for him. He said, it
sounds great. Let's go find other girls. So it was
really you know, from there we started looking when start

(26:01):
looking at clubs and I think put an ad in
a paper and stuff like that. Who came up with
the name of runaways? I did, Okay, so already at
your marketing plan. Yeah yeah, I've been thinking about this
for a little while now, couple months at least. Did

(26:22):
you guys have a daily regiment or were just like
when every time was free, then we'll rehearse or whatever.
But yeah, I really tell the truth, I can't remember.
How can you be a kid and also start this
very adult thing? All parents involved, like encouraging of this order.
Our parents were involved, but a couple of the girls

(26:45):
were a year younger than me, so they were like
in eleventh grade, so they still had school to deal with,
and um, yeah, not all the parents were thrilled about it.
But in the end, I don't know. I guess they
didn't want to fight their daughters or something. But um,
for school, I got good, pretty good grades, and I

(27:08):
took my g E D. I was already in twelfth grade,
but I I wanted to get out a little bit early,
so would go on the road. So okay, I always
wanted to know. Um, I guess to me the initial
incarnation of the Runaways, like, why weren't you the lead
singer or why didn't you want to be the before? Yeah,

(27:30):
I was way too shy at the time, And you know,
I was way too shy. I had no confidence. Um
you know, I just I had no confidence, and it's
just really shy. It was amazing that I could do
what I wanted, what I was doing, you know, just
getting on on stage with the guitar. But did you
have your voice then? You just kept it as a

(27:52):
secret or I sang back, I sang background vocals. Yeah
I could sink. Yeah I could sing. I did wind
up singing half of the leads on the first Runaways
album because Shari didn't want to sing the rock and
roll or the rock and roll harder songs. She felt
that she didn't have the voice for it or didn't

(28:13):
feel comfortable singing some of them to the one she
didn't feel comfortable singing. I signed the leads and I
same backup on everything else. So I did have a voice,
but I just wasn't comfortable being the focal point. Got
so at this point, at this point in developing the band,
who who are you looking up to? Because again, you

(28:35):
guys have ushered in. You guys ushered in an era
and you know pretty much your your band's existence just
basically starts a domino effect on again people that come
tended to fifteen years later. But you know, in seventy six,
when you guys are doing this band like Who's Who's

(28:57):
cool to you? Like? Are the Stones in Zeppelin? Sort
of like ad that's old whatever music? Like who Who's
grabbing your attention? Like? Yeah, I mean, I know I
was disappointed with the Stones when they started doing um
like you weren't an exile main steep stream frisen. Yeah,

(29:18):
I know I wanted them to some rock and roll.
You know, I didn't like them with some girls. Yeah,
well it was it was fine, but you know, I
don't know. I guess I wanted them to be playing
something that I could really rock out to. You know, whatever,
No one stays rebellious forever. I know. I know that
there's a good seven year I get it now, before

(29:41):
you start doing your classical record or whatever. No, I
get it now, believe me. But I think a lot.
I think I really started looking to the punk rock
stuff right away because the Ramons came out, I believe
in the nineteen seventy five, late seventy five very first
Ramons album and all the punk stuff, rock stuff I

(30:02):
was reading a lot about, and I really gravitated very
quickly to a lot of those bands because I felt,
you know, kinship with a lot of them. I mean,
there's always like groups or or artists or albums that
are always on someone's cannon, like their top five records
of all the time. You always see the names or whatever,
and I've never sometimes you don't do the investigation of it,

(30:26):
and you know, of course, I've always seen the Ramon's
name everywhere. And finally I listened down from from top
to bottom like two years ago and realized, like, how
how genius and hard it is to really convey emotion
and and lyricism in less than two minutes. Hey, hold,

(30:46):
let's go yo. That should have jammed, though, that should
jam exactly. So for you, were you seeing that there
was a science here, like, you know, the type of
rock that you were you were fed as a child
is way different than the ideas that you're about to
dispe onto the world. Like for you, it was like, look,

(31:09):
we gotta don't borsk in to the course two minutes right, Well, no,
you gotta see. The thing was, it didn't really transfer
that much into our music. It might it might have
translated a little bit to my songwriting, but you know,
as a group, as a band, most of the girls
weren't really into punk rock the way I was. You know,

(31:31):
they were much more they looked heavier bands, you know,
more like you know, yeah, you know that heavier stuff.
Rainbow you know, could be black more, that's kind of stuff.
So you know, we didn't really see eye to eye

(31:52):
on our hang out music. So we didn't you know,
we had to come from a place when we met
in the middle. So you know, I just stole considered
what we did to be basic rock and roll. What
was the division of labor as far as the songwriting
is concerned and what you're going to cover or who's
gonna write what? Like who's who's the primary songwriter or

(32:13):
the group? Was that you? I think I think it
was May For the most part, it was me. I
wrote either songs with Kim Valley as a lyricist, or
I wrote songs by myself. I think I wrote a
couple with some of the other girls, but not too many.
And M Yeah, so I guess I was the primary
one back then, Like it was sort of hard for

(32:34):
you guys to break out in the States, but yet
you know you're the magic's working instantaneously when you go overseas.
Like how much of a mind funk? Was that too?
Kind of that's very similar to hip hop, Like, you know,
my band had to move to Europe for five years
just so that you know, in quote unquote Paula Hendricks

(32:58):
and then come back to the United States like that
sort of thing. Like but in your mind, was it
a dream deferred or like wait, what's going on here?
Or I thought, well, you know a lot of different
a lot of different feelings. Yeah, one part of me
had wished that we had the same sort of response

(33:18):
in the States, but it was so different around the world.
In Japan, it was like all girls and like the Beatles,
like mania, people fainting, girls fainting, and I think it,
I think it kind of scared a couple of the
other girls. You know, I was exhilarated, but you know,
there were people were rocking the car and we'd never

(33:38):
really had that kind of experience at all. I mean,
anybody in the right mind would probably should probably be scared,
but I didn't get too scared. And then, uh, in
Scandinavia another place, all girls, all wearing real pacifiers and
sucking on these passive Yeah, tell me about it. Yeah,

(33:59):
I didn't get it, and I never found out what
it was. I guess it was just some kind of
fat or fashion that they were doing, but particular photo
shooters tell no, no, no, no, they were giving us
the ideas, you know. Um. But then then in England,
you know, England gets you know, they I think they

(34:21):
got the runaways of a lot more than Americans did,
but they still, you know, the English love to take
the piss out of you. So we took a lot
of ship, but there were a lot of people I
think there that liked us too. We did well in
Germany and I think Europe did pretty well, but we
didn't tour there a lot, so I don't no face
to face and record stales I can never go by

(34:45):
really because you know, so in retrospect, what would you
categorized the genre? You know, are you guys at the
forefront of the l A punk movement where you just
hard rock? Were you kind of the torch bearer for
what will eventually become like the glam metal scene that

(35:05):
would happen fifteen years later with those groups in l A.
I mean, I always just call it rock and roll,
and I think what we did, I think what we
did it was punk rock to its core, you know,
just doing dictating what you're gonna do and doing it
and not listening to what anybody says, and I mean
I thought, and doing that in the context of how

(35:27):
society treated you at the time, I think it was
the ultimate punk rock stuff. You know, even for the
girls it didn't want to play in punk rock. They
were being punk rock just by what they were doing.
They didn't have to play it. So you guys pretty
dissolved almost as quick as you came aboard. Um, do

(35:49):
you remember how eventful or uneventful the last night of
the group was before you realize that it's not happening anymore.
I don't remember if it was. I didn't know. It
wasn't a happy time, and we knew it was a
New Year's seventy eight into seventy nine was our last gig,
and we knew it was our last gig because we

(36:09):
decided to disband after that because I didn't want you know,
I felt like I said, that musical separation was there
between girls want to play heavier music and me, and
so I thought, man, I don't want to get fired
from the band. I started with something weird, so let
me just quit and we'll just you guys can do

(36:30):
your thing. And well, I can assume that leader was
one of them wanted to do to have your stuff right.
It was not animosity, it was not you know, it
was not an anger or anything. Weren't going fuck you,
fuck you. You know. It was just like since we
had been friendly, we didn't want it to be weird
and it's just like, just let me, I'll just go.
You guys do your thing. You know it's weird before

(36:51):
I gotta admit that, and watching the documentary, I didn't
realize that quote that Leader Ford was the Leader Ford
in the Runaways, because I guess my my dealings with
Leader any anytime, there was always a person that wanted
to give I'm not even making any nugent comparisons, but

(37:12):
if there was anyone that ever wanted to give like
hip hop the middle finger with a quote, it was
always leading forward. I knew her more for her to
stay of hip hop than for like what she actually did. Yeah, no,
for real, Like I guess I should say I'm not surprised,
but yeah, like I know her for quotes of like

(37:34):
why she ate a hip hop? So I always knew that.
Whenever I hear the name leader Ford, I'm like, uh,
what happened now? But then you know, but then when
I started the thing, I was like, oh, she was
a runaway. I get it now. So I don't want
no guilt by association though, because hey man, we all
you made light of day. I used to watch that
movie every day after school when I was in like

(37:55):
third grade. So as a twenty one year old, are
you feeling like Okay, well I did that. What do
I do now for you? It's just like onto the
next Like, did you know I was feeling like it
was time to die? It is what I was feeling like.
I was feeling like the whole city of l A

(38:17):
was laughing, going we told you it wouldn't work. We
told you girls can't play rock and roll, you know,
And I just was I was not taking care of myself.
I was drinking too much. It is my My dreams
were crushed, you know. And and I had no friends,
you know. It was like everybody was gone, you know
what I mean. They disappear in that level and you're

(38:38):
just alone with your thoughts and your beer or whatever.
It was always drinking. So how how long did the
sort of the feeling of funk last before you started
your I assume that, you know, starting the Black Hearts
was your eventual Yeah? Well, actually I met my partner,
Kenny lou Donau, my song running partner and my produce.

(39:00):
He became my producer and manager because nobody else wanted
to deal with me. We met to write uh songs
for a movie that I had contracted to do before
The Runaways broke up. I had to write six songs
for a film. And so my manager at the time,
a guy named Toby Memos, knew Kenny and knew that
he had worked with a lot of bubble Gumps bands

(39:22):
in the sixties and knew that he could write songs
quickly and should be easy to work with. So he
called him and said, would you come out and meet
Joan to do this project with her? And so Kenny
did and we met and hit it off and really

(39:43):
became good friends the first day. I don't know what
it was that he saw in me, but he uh,
but I was the real deal, I guess. And we
wrote some songs and then I said would you produce
these songs that we wrote together? And he did. And
then you know, as we continue, I didn't have anybody

(40:07):
to manage me. And so he had took that on too,
thinking it would be easy that he could get me
deals and this and that. But no, he started getting
knows you know, he knows a lot of people in
the business, and people just told him no. And then
I think it got to him where, oh my god,
this is real and and then he got piste because
then he saw the sort of you know, just prejudice

(40:32):
and misogyny, you know, straight out bullshit. So I think
you know that fire lit that fire in him to
help fight for me. So it took about two years.
First of all, whose idea was it to recover or
to redo? Uh? I love rock and roll? I don't
think many people know that that's a cover song. Yes, yes, um.

(40:53):
I saw that song when I was in England with
the Runaways and I saw this band on top of
the pops, the Arrows, and they were playing the B
side to their hit, and the B side to their
hit was I Love rock and Roll. I don't know
what the their hit was. The side was A love
rock and Roll and I'm like, now that sounds like

(41:13):
a hit to me. And I went out to the
record shop and bought the forty five, thinking, you know,
the Runaways, maybe we could do this and it'll be
a hit. But then I was reminded that by the
other girls that we had done, we had covered lou
Reid's rock and Roll on the first album when our
first Runaways lum and you know, I guess I didn't

(41:34):
want rock and roll and every title on every album
kind of so sort of blew it off for a while,
and I just held onto the song and then after
the Runaways thought here we go life, life lesson, you
gotta go with your gut. Yep, that's the second time
you learned that lesson. Um, So, how different does life

(41:55):
turn for you once that song makes you pretty much
a household name? Well just I think the the fame
level rose and we had more people at our gigs
and stuff and made a little bit more money. Finally
it could make a little bit more money. Uh So

(42:15):
those things change a little bit. But um, you know,
for the most part. But is that also scarier feeling?
Because I think oftentimes when someone gets a success, the
first thing their head is, oh God, how how am
I going to sustain this? How am I going to
make it last? What's the next single? That? Uh yeah,
there was part of that, but I wasn't like so
far up there that it was. You know, when you're

(42:38):
number one and you're I don't know, I guess you
know on one level you can't stay there forever, and
I guess you you know, you know you have to
have your next one. I guess initially we knew what
that next one was gonna be, which was Crimson and
clover right and what was it about that song that
made you want to choose that? Damn? It? My only

(43:00):
question as the day. Okay, it's a great you want
to say it? What made you want to cover Christian Seas?
Answer the question? Light on good and when I when
I you know, when I met Kenney and I knew
that he played those songs, and I'm like, so you

(43:21):
played the Money Money He's like yeah, and I'm like, okay,
So I don't want to cover Crimson Clover. I just thought,
you know, it would be weird because I didn't want
to change the lyrics and that was just the way
I was. I wanted to, you know, push the envelope

(43:41):
a little bit because I just wanted to the original recording.
So so I guess psychedelic and uh so what was
my reason for doing I mean because Tommy's Tommy's like
when he's I guess. Chenny told me when he asked
what is it about? You know, it was about LSD,

(44:03):
you know, Christian Glover, So it wasn't about really her
M specifically. So people ask people what I'm singing about,
It's like, well, I mean, I guess I'm singing it
more literally, but not specifically. At anybody. You know, it's
just being put out into the world. Is that is

(44:26):
those sentiments, but it's not directed specifically at a person.
So at that particular point, coming into the early part
of the eighties and whatnot, or do you have a
peer group? Are there is there a trusted circle that
you can how around with, like normally you know, birds
of a feather flock together as far as like people

(44:48):
liking each other's music whatnot? Like was there a tight
knit community in the sort of the l a rock
community by this point for you at least? Or were
you still like I was gone isolated, I was out
of there. But in seventy nine came back to New York. Okay,
went to New York. So even in New York, like

(45:08):
for that is there was I mean, no, I didn't
hang it. I didn't really you know. I was also
going to say, like everyone was sort of going new
wave in New York and you're going straight rock and roll,
Like were you a fish out of water? And like
where you sort of upholding a tradition that you felt

(45:30):
with soon sort of take a back seat. You know,
I don't know that I thought I had that much
that I planned it out and thought about, you know,
what's the future of rock and roll? Or um a
lot scynthier. You know that there was a lot of
synth music going on. Well, I mean, were you going
to the Lower East Side in in in the early

(45:52):
eighties to see groups like Bad Brains or any like?
Were you at all interested in the movement that was
happening in the Lower East Side? Right? I was, Yes,
I was interested, but I was working too much to
be I was on the road the whole time. I
don't even know if I was around most of the time.
I mean literally on the road all the time, pretty

(46:15):
much the two pretty much. I mean, at least through
November and then you know, depending on what the tour was,
We're always working and then be off d January and
then start working again in February. It was pretty pretty brutal.
And I didn't realize that until the pandemic hit and

(46:36):
then and then nothing was happening, and then I realized
how much of my life I had been on the
road constantly, and all these other things we talked about about,
you know, feeling separate, you know, and being isolated, and
but I did, you know, I definitely have friends that
I uh new once, you know, once I was settled

(47:00):
in New York and I had a routine, and um
I still have that that sort of core. Few I
can count on my one hand level of friends. Yeah. Yeah,
that's that's real life, like real people. We have two
to three people. Wait, I always wanted to know this.

(47:22):
Um okay, So from my from my point of view
as a record collector, UM, all right, I'll explain to
you Fante. Well you probably know already, but like for me,
Boardwalk Records is almost akin to like Malaco Records. So
what is that what you mean that said? I always

(47:44):
wanted to know what was it about Boardwalk Records that
made you choose that as your label because I knew
that sort of as kind of as as a secondier
label for acts that were pop it in the seventies
for soul music. I know that Ohio players wound up

(48:04):
on board Walk Records for like their eighties catalog. I
remember the Five Stair Steps morphed into uh the Invisible
Man's Band, uh for the eighties or whatnot. Kenny would
know so much about this because he, you know, I
think he knew Neil Bogart before we got Um, you know,

(48:25):
so Kenny knew him, uh pre pre Boardwalk. I didn't
know that Neil boat Guard started Boardwalk Records. So it's
constant blanco. Yeah and yeah, and he just liked me
and wanted he really liked me a lot and wanted
me to to be able to put out my record.

(48:47):
So he said, you know, we'll put it out and
he and he did and he died like the week
before when number one and never got to see if
the number one, which really bums me out because he
was such he died one. Yeah, I did not know that,
but um, yeah, he was a real believer and you know,

(49:08):
one of those guys that and it always looked great.
It was all sharply dressed and just you know, believed
in me and believed in Kenny. I think. Yeah, everyone
that describes Neil burg Art describes it as like the
last true like one of the last creatives. And that
was a suit at least, I mean, I know the

(49:31):
suits a suit but whatever. Yeah, but I don't know
for me though, I would say that like you were
so ahead of your time, was it weird too? Sort
of have not a comeback of source, but just to
see no, no, no, no, I'm just saying that a
lot of these bands that started popping in the mid

(49:55):
nineties late nineties started name checking like Jones, Black Hearts
like or even with your work with the Runaways like
for you, did you not ever think that the day
will come from which you would see kind of the
after effects of your people that like grew up on
your music, or especially like when the Riot girl uh

(50:19):
with with Kathleen and yeah, well that was yeah, because
they totally did tip their hat to me and I
knew it so because you know, they told me so,
and it was It was great. It was great to
see that. I mean, I always knew that there, whether
or not people admitted it, that we'd have some influence,
you know, um, in in life and to music, and

(50:44):
and that it's really nice to see it confirmed and
see people say it, you know, and not just girl
bands but some guys too, and that's really nice. So yeah,
I was gonna say plenty of times where like Kirk
has has name dropped you or you know or I
know that girl. It was definitely a big fan. I

(51:04):
was that night and at the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame when man, what an I Yeah, so, how
did how did you know, was that was that surprising
to you when you got the news or you know,
I know oftentimes every every person I know that gets
in ducked into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

(51:24):
has the same sort of like nealistic if it happens,
it happens whatever, you know, that sort of thing. But
for you, was it when you got the news of
of you getting in, Like what was the feeling behind it? No?
I thought I was very happy, you know, of course
I thought, but I see, I'm used. I'm kind of
used to not being up for awards my whole life.

(51:45):
It's not really been what my career has been about,
like nominated for a lot of different things, you know,
it's not what's happened. So just the fact that I nominated,
I thought, was it was really nice. But I thought,
you know, I don't know, and I don't know if
I'm gonna win this, but and I'll still I still

(52:06):
believe this to my core that because Chris said it
on stage that night that they had they felt they
had no choice but to put me in. Then they
forced their hand. So whether whether I would have really
gotten in or whether it was that I don't know
I'll say this as much because you know I'm I'm

(52:26):
part of that. I've been part of that. Well you know,
I call the recreation of the twelve angry Men scene,
but there's like thirty five of us arguing back and forth. Um,
you know, your name has definitely been at least for
my first year there, which I think was like two
thousand and eleven, has constantly been like campion and argue

(52:51):
and and well, you know, we were joking about it's
only a matter of time for you do your classical
record for your your soft album, but you know the
latest album you're released is your acoustic work. And you know,
how how did that feel for you? Like for you,

(53:12):
is it a thing where you need a new challenge?
And no, it was really it was a way to
just we wanted to give the fans something different. We
I'd never looked because I had had such a weird
relationship with guys telling me and my guitar teachers saying
girls can't play rock and roll. I always kept acoustic

(53:34):
guitarists really at arm's length. I never owned one. I
never wanted to own one until about you know, maybe
ten years ago, maybe a little bit. But um, you
mean ten years ago, and you like finally like gave it.
Was like, all right, let me try acoustic guitar. Let
me just have it, because I can't always hear my
electric guitar, you know, if you're trying to write a

(53:54):
riff and you really need to hear something, you know.
So I just had it. But not a good one,
you know, a little shitty one. Then a couple of
years ago, we did a documentary called Bad Reputation. It
came out. It was all about my career, in my
life and itself. And um, when we did the premiere,
they wanted us in l A. They wanted to see

(54:16):
if we could perform a couple of the songs in
the theater. And I knew we couldn't set up electric,
and it was suggested that maybe we tried some acoustics stuff.
So we we did it, but with the whole band.
So it was myself, my guitar player, acoustic bass, and
our drummer and we and we, you know, played Bad
Reputation and a couple of the songs and it felt

(54:37):
really good. Actually, it felt a lot better than I
thought it was gonna feel. And and like you could
transfer the energy it's gonna be different than electric, but
it was still worked. So then last year and two
is the fort anniversary of both Bad Reputation Album and

(54:59):
I Love Up an Roll album because one came out.
They both came out in one something like that. So
we wanted to do some extra things for the fans
and maybe record some acoustic stuff. So we thought, oh,
we did that stuff for the premiere, let's go in
the studio record a few songs. Once we got in

(55:19):
there and started playing songs, we really just did everything
we could do live. We just want to started recording.
We just kept going and we didn't really plan on
having an album's worth or two of material, but just
wound up there and I thought, what the hell put
it out? Yes, how do you? How do you feel

(55:42):
about it? Like you're I feel good about it. I
feel it's fun. It's different. We play some on stage,
like we'll do our electric show and then and then
du instead of an encore, do like three or four
acoustic songs that have been going over. Just started like
a month ago and a half ago, doing it, doing

(56:03):
it and see how it would go over live, because
you know, I don't know listen in front of people,
so they seem to like it. So we'll see what happens,
and we'll see what happens with the stadium tour. You know,
we're gonna see if we can work something into that
and if if it doesn't, what are those guys like now,
like Mottley Crue and Boys, I don't know we played

(56:27):
We played with def Leppard before, Okay, uh, but I've
never played with Motley Crue, so I don't know. I
have no idea what to expect, but it should be interesting.
I learned this with Blue Oyster call the Death Lepperd's
album covers were more scarier than Death Lepperd was. The
thing is like if Mutt Lane, you know, like Mutt

(56:49):
is too he's too power. Yeah, he's too polish really
like I'm telling you exactly, like if you listen to
Love Bites whatever, like just sucking harmonies like it's it's
it's just more enhanced California harmonies to me, you know
what I mean? And so I don't know it's weird.

(57:10):
I'd never truly so I mean, of course, you know,
they create one anthem that will probably play in every
gentleman's club. Um. Now to the end of time. Yeah,
I just mean, you know, sugar has as a kick
ass drift to it. But I never considered definitely. I

(57:34):
mean I don't. I don't consider defe ever metal the
same way they don't consider the Police hard rock, you
know what I mean their terminology now, you know, don't
you find? Well? Yeah, sometimes you were just yeah exactly
right now? Like where with with this story career? And

(57:55):
is there is there anything that you have yet to
achieve or yet to you accomplished that you wish to Oh,
I'm you know, I wouldn't know who who to say specifically,
but I'm always interested in doing new and different things.
I just actually did something that I mentioned that with

(58:16):
Trombone Shorty. Yeah, so you know, it's it's it's new
for me. Um. I'm not always great with that because
I'm good with knowing, you know, being comfortable and doing
what I know and that kind of stuff. So I
have to try to get better with, you know, just
jumping into the unknown and not being so um getting

(58:39):
out of uh yeah comfort zone. Yeah yeah, but being
okay with that and and being you know, you're gonna live,
You're gonna be okay, don't worry. I don't know, I
think I'm ready to my R and B album now
there it is. But Joe, thank you very much. Um

(59:00):
yeah for for for joining us and and doing this
with us, and you know we appreciate your work. I've
been a longtime fan of yours. Thank you all. It's
been it's been a real pleasure. Definitely, thank you to
you guys. Take care of Absolute Tones, Jet on course Supreme.
We will see you guys on the next go round,

(59:22):
all right, Thank you, m M M much love. Supreme
is a production of my heart Radio. For more podcasts

(59:43):
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