Mark Ronson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of Course Love Supreme.
I am your host of Course Love. We have Team
Supreme with us. Um. You know what, guys, I've been

(00:21):
getting a lot of feedback on the internets and saying
that I'm not asking enough of Team Supreme of where
they're like is right now? Actually, Wow, they actually care.
They care about someone wants He's like, Yo, you used
to check up on how Fonte's house is doing, and
and he repairs. So I'm I'm I'm asking how how's

(00:47):
your how's your time been Fonte? Last month or so?
It's been good? Man? Um doing doing more repairs? We did, um,
we did windows and we're waiting on like windows like
the gun because like they measured something wrong so they
gotta come and replace them. But we did windows. Um.

(01:08):
But outside of replace, had replaced my h RACK unit
that went out. I think that was actually the last
summer that went out that recorded, right, So I do
that h V h V A C so did that
and um yeah, but other than that week chilling man,

(01:29):
I'm cool. It's good to you. Uh Steve, how how's
how's your life going, it's going, keeping it moving. I'm
inspired by the reopening of everything and hoping that have
you been going places? Hell now so you're places opening,

(01:49):
but you're not going to these places. I'm finding. I'm
I'm finding my solace and work, going to going to
work every day as as we happened for a long time,
but now that the audiences are coming back, it's uh,
it's another step. I feel you. Last night I went
to uh, I went to a brother Love event and

(02:11):
I think I think I stayed of all of two minutes.
So I'm sorry. That's the other way. Oh yeah, oh yeah,
the r the MRS wasn't happening that like this second
we walked in and it was like a nightclub. Are
they requiring um at at fallon they requiring like vaccination

(02:35):
or for the audience, like what's the you gotta get
you gotta get vaccines and you know cars that they
had the kids feeling out at CBS guard homemade bootleg joints.
They're hand How are how are you? I'm great, I'm great,
working a lot podcasts after podcast you got three podcasts.

(02:58):
You're like, you're like quest love. Here, I'm trying to
be sir, I'm trying to diversify, and by the time
this podcast airs, I would have had my first museum showing.
My father would have had his first museum showing for
his photos at the National Museum of African American Music
in Tennessee. So, Um, we've been curating at ME Indiana
for a Black Music Month and it's been a lot
and it's I'm just happy that it's probably gonna be

(03:21):
over by the time. Congratulations, ladies and gentlemen. We are honored,
uh to have a gentleman with us. Yes, I considered
a gentleman and a friend. Um, he's pretty much accomplished
the world in the past two decades. Wait side question.

(03:41):
Mark doesn't even feel like you've been You're like a
you're a twenty year veteran, You're a twenty three year veteran. Like, yeah,
you're You're not like our kid brother anymore. You're you're You're.
I was just looking like, wow, Mark, Mark has been
doing this for twenty years. Music. Mark looks old, look

(04:03):
the same. No, I guess none of those things. And
you know, of course we all know like as you
get older, pockets of time they quicker because they're less
a fraction of your life. But it is bizarre. And
I think like when like, certainly to me the people
I grew up, you know, looking up to you Q
tip like you don't like when you guys And I'm

(04:24):
not trying to blow you up turned fifty like I
certainly like you didn't feel fifty to me at all.
Like that's kind of bizarre, but maybe that's because I
need to just not think that anybody's older who's older
than you. Literally, if I were to see like my
memory of you as a nineteen year older or a
twenty year older versus now, I wouldn't tell the difference.

(04:47):
Like you have you have a gene and you that
might be the cousin to Black don't crack because you
you look the same, Jude, don't stew. I don't know anyway, y'all. Um.
You know he's accomplished musician and songwriter, producer label CEO

(05:10):
UM and still an accomplished DJ um. If that doesn't
impress you, you know, check his resume. Name him Adele
wine House, Mars, Merryweather Um Cyrus uh while a D'Angelo
freaking Duran Duran, Oh my god, I can't wait to
get to that part seven times? Am I getting the

(05:33):
number right it? It's definitely seven time Grammy winner. Yes, yes, okay,
including the coveted Producer of the Year. I'm only asking
that because even now, like people keep fudging my numbers
and they never get the number five right there, like
two time Grammy winner quest Love three times. I kind
of want to be that guy that's like Tom Grammy.

(05:53):
You know I can't do that. Ladies and gentlemen, please
welcome to quest Love Supreme, the one and only Mark Onson, Sir,
Yeah were you? Were you right now? Mark? You're in
your your lab. Yeah, I'm in my lab in Soho
in New York. I just moved back in um. This

(06:15):
is the place I actually had in the mid two thousand's,
right when I met Amy. And you know, I was
in this place for a couple of years and then
moved back to England for a while, moved to l
a and you know, because of COVID and people fleeing
the city like they did. I was walking past this
building and it was actually on Amy's birthday and I

(06:36):
was just like like feeling a little sentimental, like let
me just buzz up and see what's see what's in there?
So I buzzed in the landlord. I kind of gave
I have horrible at making long winded stories that don't
get to the point, so please put me that, okay.
So I was like, hey, I don't know if you

(06:57):
remember Mark, I used to be on the fifth floor
and I got it done, and I just thought, because hey,
I wanted to come up says He's like, what, you
want to rent the space again? And I was like, yeah, yeah,
that's it. I want to rent the space again. So
I came upstairs and I see this abandoned probably what
was like a jingle house in between when I was
here Lass, and I was just like, wow, I mean

(07:19):
and you know New York rents are a bit of
a song right now. And I took this place back over,
so you know, I really just came in think of Amy.
It was her birthday. I just thought like, maybe I
get a little picture, remember what that room felt like.
And then it just led to me being back here,
and then you got condon to ring it again. Yeah,
but I loved I didn't I forgot. This place has

(07:41):
a really good vibe. It was never like a very
like a named studio, like a hip Factory or or
you know, power station. But the but Norah Jones first record,
you know, the big one, was made here. We did
most of it back to black, like all the demo
and writing. So there's like, you know how just places
have a juju like it's just is just something in
the walls. It's just obviously kind of nice. Yeah, I'm

(08:05):
I'm telling you right now, don't give it up, because
I mean I have a I have a certain superstition
when it comes to whenever producers upgrade, and so the
place where you found that magic and I know him
produces minds is like I gotta grow and I gotta expand.
But I can show you the history of where the

(08:28):
slow wayne starts, and it's usually when success comes in
and then they upgrade, and then they upgrade and then
it's just not the same anymore. So you know, if
if this is, if that's your spot where you know
you're you're, you're the good vibes word, then I tell

(08:50):
you that you should. You should. Definitely. I've been on
the other side of that equation too. I moved into
this like basement kind of hole. It was mildew and
like damp in the east village and uh in like
two thousand three, and um, I remember getting a call
from this guy's and I was like, hey, uh, you know,

(09:10):
the Strokes used to have that room and they're working
on their second record and they're really having like a
hard time, like they might want that room back because
that was their weird magic room where they it was
called the Transporter Room where they made the first record.
I was, yeah, I was a big Strokes fan, so
I was just like, yeah, funk, yeah, I'll move out
of here. It never happened in the end, but like
I know that that what that? Uh? What? That? Yeah?

(09:35):
All right, So I'll ask you, and I actually said
this on your podcast that you know, I purposely held
back from asking you certain questions in real life, knowing
that one day you'd eventually make it to the show.
So I didn't I don't want to waste any answers
or whatnot. So, um, for those of us that don't know,
could you please tell us, uh, where you were born,

(09:59):
what city you were Yeah. I was born in London.
My parents in English, and then I moved to New
York when I was eight and I was pretty much
I consider myself a New Yorker like definitely. But I
have ties to London. I have my family that a
lot of family that I go. I've spent time there.
I didn't really realize, weirdly until I started making music

(10:20):
and the music came out and it did well in
England and like went like fucking sold eight copies here
that I had to be like, oh, maybe this connection
to England that I like completely forgot about most of
my life musically is is more. It's kind of more
in my output than I really realized. You know. So wait,
let me ask you about your your your time in

(10:43):
in England. First of all, are you consciously aware unaware
of when your accent sneaks in and sneaks out? Yeah,
it's fucking terrible. I mean I used to hate it.
I mean when you moved to a country. I moved
here when I was eight from England and like, you know,
kids are merciless at that age and they tease you

(11:05):
and I you know, they called me, called me, which
doesn't make any sense because yeah, they called me, called
me like shut up, call me like, you know, because
it's like the middle of like the you know, the
Cold War or something. I have a funny accent and
then um, and then you try and lose it to
fit in as quickly. And then I would go back
to England to see my friends and be like, why
do you sound so American? Like I I realized it

(11:27):
was just my you know, my little like it was.
I was never going to be able to kind of
sound like I was from one place. I hear it
when I'm in England and my voice starts to change
the back of attacks center and a part of it.
It makes me think, like, what am I like this
spineless guy who can't commit to one accident? Am I
such a chameleon? And am I so like unsure like

(11:48):
or trying to please people in public scenarios that I'm
that easily? But I just I realized I have no
control over it anymore. So I just sucking. I've just
given up. No, you definitely talk like you like I
don't think you'd all American or English. But like I've
always wondered in your head, are you trying to navigate
the vehicle so that you don't reveal your English side

(12:11):
to us and if you're over there you don't reveal
your American side to them? No? Because I I definitely
I've definitely sounded American. As soon as I went back
to England the first time. I'd only been in America
for like a year, and they're like, why do you
sound like a fucking yank now, mate? And or you
know obviously they were. There were nine year old kids.
They didn't sound like a like a like a pub bartender.

(12:35):
But yeah, no, I hear it when I'm like, I mean,
we all have all these different mechanisms that we used
to assimilate, you know, their social mechanisms. How we just
like if you're standing next to someone they crossing their
arms and suddenly you start crossing your arms. It's just
like coding and genetics and evolution. But I just like,
you know, poor Josh Stone, she got it really bad.

(12:57):
She was like the first person her and I remember
him on it right, Everyone's like, why they fucking sound
like that now? John Stone for sounding American, Madonna for
sounding English? But um and so I always I was like, oh,
is there something that when you sound when you switch
it up that much? Is that is that inauthentic? Like
that's the only thing I didn't want to be read
as inauthentic. Reason for sounding like that? They did well.

(13:19):
I don't know about Josh. I didn't know about that.
Anna Madonna just came out of nowhere and was like,
why does she sound like that? But that that happens though, Yo,
Like after the year I was seeing the word yeah
after everything yeah, yeah, like yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, And
everything has to end exactly in England, all the sentences

(13:40):
and like on a slightly higher note than they started.
And you say yet the inswer It's like, all right,
so I see it the club bady Yeah, Like everything
just like goes into this like lilt. It's kind of
like Brooklyn Brooklyn, like when we first got here to
record do you want more? Like every that whole air
of special, Like when Teric was hanging with like the

(14:02):
Gangstar Foundation and all those cats and they were just
talking Matt Brooklyn, but like everything was interrogative, like they
was asked that. They were always asking questions. Yeah, yo,
how many pairs of whom was you got? Yeah? The
kid like everything is a question. Yeah. And using the
word aggie, which I've yet to see any other place

(14:26):
in the world use aggie except for a yeah, my
my sister, where Le Charlotte uses that word all the time.
But just only from like hearing it in jay Z
songs and she just loves that show. She just always
goes like, why are you acting all aggie? Mark, what
was your first musical memory. I have like almost snapshots

(14:50):
in my head, like partial memories. I remember having a
little trap drum kit when I was three or four.
I remember also having um it was either a Sony
or Fisher Price record player that was like plastic, like
the brown joint, like a little tan one, like a

(15:10):
little tan joint where no, this was like primary colors.
It was like red. Maybe it was just like an
English one. It was like red, yellow, green, And I
just remember lifting the needle and putting it down on
the record and just that excitement when the first like
crackle happened, and then like just being like whoa, I

(15:31):
can control this. I mean it's so not I mean
it's it's not even deep enough to compare it to
DJ because it literally is djaying. But um, yeah, those
are some of my first first memories. Mark. I'll be
the first to admit I was today years old before
I realized that you're not at all related to mick

(15:51):
ronson which I think the whole world thinks you are, Yeah,
your stepfather's Mick Jones. How is this a common mistake
that all of us had made? Yeah, in my mind,
your dad was Mick Ronson, And I'm like, no, his
dad was Mick Jones. Now I get it. Yeah, No,
it was crazy because even before like Wikipedia, like in

(16:12):
the early two thousand, when I first came out, like
you know, Wikipedia has made it pretty common that if
like somebody gets a fact wrong, it just kind of
just stays there, stays there. But this is weirdly like
one of the examples of a of a wrong fact
staying there before Wikipedia. And I think it was because
when I first came out in in England where I
had my initials, like my only success really with my

(16:34):
with my solo record, the first one that yeah, they
knew that my stepdad was a musician named Mick. Oh,
they knew I was related to somebody music named Mack
and my last names Ronson, so it must be Mick Ronson.
So this started to get written a lot in the
in the in the Times of London or something, and uh,

(16:54):
Mick Ronson's poor like widow Mick Ronson obviously being the
genius arranger, guitar player, for Bowie and Spiders and mart
rights to the newspaper, and she's like, um, She's She's like,
if my you know, thinks that I'm some either some
weird bastard child that he had out of wedlock or

(17:15):
maybe somebody claiming falsely to be the son of mcronson,
And she sued the newspaper. I think she was like,
you know, I think that was probably stressful for her
to be, like, wait, is there some fucking ronson running
around here? So I think she said, I think mcronson's
widow suited the paper that time. But then you know,
obviously I did my best to clear up. And also,
because you know, I'm proud of my stepdad, I don't

(17:36):
want people think I'm trying to ride off the cotails
of of some wrong information. But yeah, I I'm not
related to mcronson, just a fan, Damn. I I never
It's never even occurred to me that I can just
start suing people for false rumors or whatever, because yeah, yeah,
Wikipedia insist that my grandfather is um remember that Dick's

(18:00):
hummingbirds Thompson and people. But the thing is like reporters
just fall in love with this whole thing of like wow,
three three generations of music makers. Your your grandfather is
in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Your dad
was a legendary do o opper. Now it's you, and
now I just I don't have the strength anymore. I
actually met Beach Thompson's family, like I think maybe a

(18:24):
nephew or two lives out in l A. And they
just they're claiming me now. So it's like we got
the same last night as well. It becomes legend print
the legend fun exactly exactly. Also, Wikipeda is like the
easiest thing to sort of fix anyway, So what like
there's just some guy that whenever someone works for you

(18:45):
change it, it just goes back and just puts it back.
We like the old way. Yeah it's yeah. I to
try to erase it and it just winds up back
there like three days later, So forget it. Yeah, I
can't do nothing about it. My favorite like weird thing
on that somebody posts on Wikipedia that was just so
preposterous that I just had to laugh and leave it

(19:07):
was that it said it was like, you know, all
the way down the thing personal life, he grew up
and did it. It's like the fourth paragraph it's like.
And also, at the age of six years old, he
actually wrote the theme song to the hit cartoon ThunderCats,
but originally wrote it as a tribute wrote it as
a tribute to Benedict Cumberbatch, and the theme went Cumberbatch

(19:28):
cumber Back, and I was like, I can't even take
that out. It's too good. That's awesome, all right, So
there you have it all exclusive you. I'll take that.
I'll take that. So in growing up, you're saying that
drums was might have been your first weapon. Yeah. When

(19:52):
I was my parents were kind of like, they liked
to party. They had a lot. There was always people
over in the house, and I would wake up in
the middle of the night and I would probably I
walk into what I'm told and vaguely recalls the sea
of grown up smoking, drinking whatever, probably walking through the
him getting pad on the head um and I would
just go straight for the speakers wherever the music was playing,

(20:15):
and I would sit in front the speakers and just
close my eyes and play air drums to like whatever
was playing. Like that was my like zone. And uh,
Simon Kirk, the drummer from Bad Company and Free was
there one night and just was like a friend and
and of the of my parents was like, hey, like
he looks like he'd have fun on the drums, like

(20:36):
he kind of looks like he knows what he's doing.
Get him a kid, and they got me a little kid.
My and my dad, my real dad, loved music like
a typical English soul boy in the sixties, like had stacks,
winder kay Frog like all those and you know, northern
soul stuff too, and just that's what he played in

(20:57):
the house. So that's kind of just what it was like.
It was like groove music, you know, and that's what
I was kind of drawn to. Can I just want
to ask what your parents did, because I feel like
it's some way your life has been romanticized or even
it's hella dope. As my dad managed bands, and he uh,
he came from like a kind of like you know,

(21:18):
a family that was like you're supposed to like North
London Jews are like a very i would say insular,
but it's like you do the family business, you go.
It was like old school tradition, this kind of thing.
My my dad's family were like one generation removed from
being like fucking butchers on brick Lane, like not quite
Peaky Blinders, but like that kind of ship. And uh

(21:40):
and so they so he my grandfather made the successful
business like gas stations. It was like that's what you do,
you go work in the family business. So my dad
was loved music and they just weren't trying to hear that.
So that he kind of like became a little bit
of like the black Sheep, and he went and managed
bands and did all these kind of things. And do
you remember the band Roachford. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so

(22:01):
he managed Roachford. Uh, this was like a little later,
but yeah, he like discovered Andrew was in another band
and was like, hey, the keyboard player is really good.
You should go to your solo ship. So he kind
of you know, plucked Andrew out and you know, you know,
this first couple of Roach for records, and he just
loved music and stuff and he loved the party, and
so did my mom. And my mom was from Liverpool

(22:24):
and she was just kind of you know, wonderful mother,
you know, kind of dynamic persona. And how many of them,
how many rownson's there's okay, So there's my mom and
dad had three of us, and then my dad remarried
had three more rownson's and my mom remarried and had

(22:45):
a couple more jones is. So there's ten ten brothers
and sisters altogether. Yikes. Yeah, okay, speaking of which, Uh yeah,
I was gonna say, um um it's it's Andrew Roachfort
who would bring um If you remember New John from

(23:07):
three seven thousand nine in the Black really days to
our very first show when we moved to London, and
that's how we met New and then new became our
tour manager, but at the time she was dating Roachfort,
so that's how we knew. That's how we knew him,
all right. So in addition, like I know, of course

(23:27):
I know Sam DJ's, I know that uh c ronson
is I assume fashion designer And that's not your shout
out on the jay Z record, but your sisters you'll
take it. Um. But like, is anyone uh any of
your other siblings? Are they accomplished musicians as well or

(23:51):
just in terms of producing and songwriting? Yeah, my brothers,
like my brother Alexanders really talented. He's in l A
and he's more in that kind of like avant garde
l A. Seemed like he did stuff with Ariel Pink
before it was bad to say Ariel Pink's name, I guess.
But but yeah, just like just cool, more weird ship

(24:12):
than I do. And uh but and then and then
my brother Chris actually lives in Miami and he's like
part of terrorist squad and he like makes music with
like Pooh and Scott's Stort. So like, yeah, everybody's everybody
has a has a kind of musical gene somehow, except
my family in England, who I'm very close with. They

(24:33):
all decided to like do real ship. So they're like
lawyers and you know, business and that kind of stuff.
I um, I heard his story once about you, and
I thought, this is weird that we kind of have
this thing in common. Can you talk about your interning
at Rolling Stone at the age of twelve? I believe yes. So,

(24:57):
you know, one of the parts of growing up in
New York City and on the Upper West Side of
my stepdad being a musician. It's like, you know, the
cool people were over a lot of the time and
whenever I Jehan when it would come over the founder
Rolling Stone, like I know exactly who he was. I
was a you know, nerdy kid, I read, I love

(25:18):
music and I loved everything about it, and like I
would read Billboard in the trade mags and liner notes
and stuff just because I just wanted to absorb all
of it. Um. So when Joan would come over, I
would always just like want to grill him about stuff.
And I'm sure that it was sweetened to a point
it was probably annoying because he just wanted to hang
with the grown ups too, But I would just really

(25:40):
am as in, like why why did Jagger get like
four and a half stars for a primitive cool? Yeah? Yeah,
just like why did you give the police don't stand
so close to me? Eighties six remakes such a bad
something like I would really like it was like showing
that I was probably read it. And I think like
he was very week to me and probably a part

(26:01):
exasperatedly once he was like listen, just I'll give you
a job this summer, just like stop bothering me please.
So so yeah, I went to Rolling Stone for the
summers when I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen. I was I
in turned there like uh, and I was just like
manning the phones. I was doing all sorts of ship
like that. At that time, they had their own chart. Uh.

(26:25):
They had their own album chart, which was a very
random thing of calling up mom and pop stores around
thirty mom and pop stores, and then they would average
and then make their own chart, which is kind of
weird because they could have just called Billboard and be like, hey,
what's the top ten this week? But they, you know,
they had their own ship. So that was partly my
job to call these mom pop stores. My voice hadn't

(26:46):
even broken. It was like, I'm calling from Rolling Stone
and we just want to know your ten, you know.
And then I would have to compile the chart, then
go down to the art department and tell them what
the number one album was so they could put the
little picture in the with the box. So you were
responsible for that, Yeah, nobody should have made me responsible

(27:06):
for that. So I went down to the art department
and that yeah, the Batman soundcheck, the print sound check
that week was number one. Um, And they were like,
go tell Jenny and Art, the head of art department's Batman's,
you know, number one record. So I go down and
I'm like walking around. I've never been in the art
department before. It's a different floor, and like Hi, Like
I'm looking for Jenny, and they're like She's just there

(27:26):
and I'm like, Jenny, She's like, what do you want, kid,
I was like, Batman's number one, and she just thought
it was like a prank, like some kid just came
down to just say like he loves like Batman or something,
and I was like, yeah, it was the album. I

(27:47):
was going to say that, out of all of your
life accomplishments, that's probably the one that I'm super jealous
of the most because, you know, like my relationship with
that periodical like been endless Saturdays going through like back then,
you know, if you didn't we had a we had
a large library in Philadelphia, UM, but our local ones

(28:11):
of course, like they maybe have like two years of
back issues and then you wouldn't see anything, so you
would have to put these, uh you know, these scrolls
in like the way the right, and so just EON's
just hours upon hours upon hours of like they would

(28:32):
just keep the the the entire rolling Stone collection, like
you know, thirteen years of of they would have like
somewhere between like seventy three, you know, whatever year it
was at the time when I was doing and I'd
sit there endlessly and like just all my walls were

(28:52):
wallpaper with all the lead reviews, so like Robert Risco. Yeah,
so when I turned four, the I think Jimmy did
this for me. Jimmy had Robert Risco, uh do a
caricature and that, Yeah, that's that's amazing, that that's crazy.

(29:14):
And now being like, obviously I was aware that it
was special and being there, but now like I realized,
like the people I was around and grabbing coffee for
from whether it was David Wild, David Frick, Anthony had occurred,
to Sheila Rodgers who went on to be the music
book or at Letterman, like all these people that like
had this little like like I was just there, a
little pet like to like it was fun and they

(29:36):
all thought it was kind of amusing that I was,
uh in there. But I also like, do you think
they're aware that you were that twelve year old kid? Now?
David Wild like definitely comments on my Twitter and he'll
be like, hey, you know whatever. And Sheila Rodgers when
I've you know, when we played Letterman before, She's always
I've been sweet. So yeah, some somehow they kind of

(29:56):
kept track. I had this, you know phase where I
didn't really have any of my first musical success in
my early thirties. So really, my twenties, while I'm making
as a hip hop DJ, was not something that really
registered on Yon Winner's radar, you know, so, so I
think he would always be like, hey, what are you
up to? Oh yeah, he's still in the Club's great.
So when Amy came out, and obviously she was on

(30:18):
the cover of Rolling Son, it was a big thing.
I have this letter still framed from Yahn. That's just like, Hey, Mark,
so glad that you know that that you finally made
something of yourself. It's really like, yeah, like, congrats on
the Amy, on the Amy record, It's fantastic and that
that that kind of meant a lot to me. Wow,
But he also hip hop you that's ill, Like I mean,

(30:39):
it was a compliment, but it was also a slap
in the face to like keep doing that little repol
In that moment, I was like, yeah, that's a whole
moment and being a you know, a hip hop artist
icon or whatever exactly. Um, Mark, do you remember the
first album that you purchased? I know, there's a weird

(31:02):
question to ask, being as though you grew up in
a musical household. So I'm certain that collections all right, well,
let me let me put it this way, what was
the collection like in your household as you're growing up?
And then do you remember the first album that you
went out and purchased with your own money away from

(31:22):
your parents influence? Yeah, so the collection was like certainly
my my my dad. We left England when I was
six or seven, so you know, I'd come back once
or twice a year to see my dad. That that
was always just like I remember really clearly, like my
dad playing He loved Grandmaster Flash in the Furious Five,

(31:43):
so the message in New York, New York. He would
always play those and me and my sisters would jump
on on the bed and you know, that was a
very when you're song when you're a kid like that
song he that like it's so clear that you can
understand every lyric. It's so hooky and even though you
don't know what you're talking talking about, you just like
I remember just learning that wrote. And then I also

(32:04):
remember like things because he probably he didn't really get
three ft high and rising, but probably someone told him
that he liked, like, hey, you should check this out.
This is the new ship, and he kind of probably
took it home and was like, oh, this is a
little too like avant garde from me or something. I
remember him giving me that. But the first time I
really remember buying something for myself was like I got
my pocket money. This is New York and I went

(32:26):
to the Tower Records on sixty six to buy a
twelve inch. I think my stepdad was like, here's tambus,
go buy a couple of twelve inches. And I bought
um just bugging by whistle Wow um and sly Fox
Let's go all the way yeah, um and and maybe
something else. And then that's the first things I remember

(32:50):
like really like buying that. This is my own money.
I want to get this. Oh wow. Okay, by the way,
uh listeners, maybe I found out maybe three years ago
that um one of the members of slide Fox was
um Booty Collins main singer, the one that sings real
cartoony okay, like the uh god damn almost like no,

(33:20):
not Gary Shot. I think Gary Mudbunen Cooper. Okay. I
hope I get this right, because anytime I get p
funk Trivia wrong, they you know, they beat up on me.
I love when like when I listen that reckon now,
it's so funny because like you don't have any of
when you're a kid, any of that like uh snary
attitude or like Jaden is, And I'm like, oh my god,

(33:43):
if I was twenty when that record came out and
be like what the fund is this Prince rip off?
You know he's singing exactly like Prince. I mean, the
beat is incredible, it is an incredible song. But I
love when you hear songs from your youth and you
have none of that like Barrier Jaden is. You're just like,
this is my ship and that is still still that
still is on a lot of workout playlists for me.
That song. I'm still trying to figure out how come

(34:06):
no one never made the the correlation between the Boogie
Boys A Flag Girl and that song, which was the
Yeah and B version of Yeah fly Girls. Like it's
just what's just they took the drums off of Flygirl?
Right or was it? It's sort of like can't trust

(34:27):
it and don't be afraid? Like right, it's the same,
it's the same two, which they just right exactly didn't
think about it. Now it's this, it's the exact same
track that Sly Fox record was like one of the
first records to be like huge on alternative rock radio

(34:49):
and R and B and just pop because it had
that dumb beat that just like spoke to everybody, which
just it's kind of wait was the name of it
again because some of us, well, let's go all the way? Um,
there was a flag girl. Here's the weird thing. I
actually thought when jay Z. When jay Z used it
for I know what girls like, I know what girls like,

(35:10):
I thought that was gonna blow up for him. Yeah,
come on now, that was my first because you know
where he funked up at with that, because he started
the album off with a million and one in rhyme
no more right, and I was like, whole ship, here
we go. Yes, and then yeah the Black Street joined

(35:32):
and then it was the Flag of Nigga. No. It
had a even I like in my weird like even
though I was like a club DJ, so I was
just like looking for anything that was like commercial and bouncy,
like I couldn't even feel like there was something sticky
there on that record, Like I was like, this feels
like this feels like reach and that had the city

(35:53):
his mind on it to probably that was that album
in Germany that's because that song had been remixed on
the play around about fifty thou times by the time
he put that version out, because it was just making
cheers that you'll remember that, you'll remember that. You're right, Yeah,
you're right, Yeah it was Yeah, But I don't know,
I feel I don't know. I get frustrated that he

(36:17):
denies it like a bastard son and when girls like
the girls like record, well, I mean just that album
in general, that album had moments it was I mean,
it's it was. It's not a bad album, but it
was the most defining song is on that moment and
which all right, here's the deal, you know. I like
when at the beginning Earth one and Fire obviously didn't

(36:39):
plan on September being the biggest thing there in the one,
but how that was chosen even though they did like
Star and all this other ship. I feel like the
song that really defines jay Z isn't even a sense
I think imaginary players because j C song it's arrogant,
is fuck like yeah, I feel like, you know, just

(37:02):
like yeah, he just like whatever, I'm not like my
my face off twelve inch, like that was a song
I love to play well, I just as a club DJ,
and then back and forth, and I just like that
was just like one twelve beats per minute, like I
needed that in the set at that at that moment,
I'm looking now that it was over a yeah, yeah,

(37:26):
I'll never figured that ever since. Here in Jada Kisses
version of how that song went down, like, I'll never
see it the same again. Basically, like they were on
like a trip from the UK and they had to
go straight to the studio to do their verse. They
couldn't shower or anything, so it's like after they got
our customs, you know, they were on a nine hour

(37:49):
flight and then had some customs thing for like four
hours and then had to go straight to the studio
or else they were going to not be on the record,
And you know, Jaded just has this like weird other
take about it that totally takes me out of what
I thought. That was also Pitchfork eight point four for
Volume one, they just recently re reviewed that. I don't know,

(38:12):
but because I just Wikipedia because I wanted to remember
what's on that album, because I was like, oh, actually,
who you were face Off Imaginary Player. It's it's very
strong album. But eight point four, Yeah, no know what.
I like that record, so I will quasi agree, even
though he hates that record and his family trying to

(38:35):
chase Puffy. He was trying to chase Puffy. It was
like it was nine seven. It was time to do like, yeah,
we it's understandable. It was like we get it. But right,
that wasn't it? You know? You know, it's funny we
were talking about, um, we're talking so much about God.
Now I'm such an idiot. But when we when I
interviewed me for my podcast and we talked about the

(38:58):
huge album and then the one for the first one
for Interscope, and you weren't really swearing it off like
in the way that we're talking about Jay, but you
were kind of, you know, saying like it was rush
and you were trying to make a record maybe just
to fit where you were. And I think, don't say
nothing came out and and I was trying to please
uh yes, I was trying to please my label president.

(39:18):
So I was sitting I was sitting there other day
with my girl now fiance, who's ten years younger than me.
Don't congratulation. She's an awesome actor. Something. Thank you, thank you.
I'll tell her you said that and don't or hopefully
she'll listen to this or both, but don't say nothing

(39:39):
came on and she was like, that's my ship and
because she was she she was a teenager like that
age and it comes out and you're just like, oh this,
I just love this. Like you have no context. You're
not thinking like where it rests in the cannon. You're
just like you know, like it's just yeah, she's not
like y'all in like the rest of us. Yes, exactly. Well,

(40:04):
I'm I'm extremely thank you. I appreciate that. Can I
ask us speaking of that snobbery, I wanted to ask
Mark a set question because I'm so curious about where
you started, like working out your sets and where you
how you started like refining and knowing what to do
and what what what the crowd wanted and what crowd
wanted what and what was important to you in the beginning.

(40:27):
I would just go and I would watch uh Stretch,
Armstrong and clarke Ken and gold Finger and just rip
off all of their routines like I'm not I'm not
afraid to say, like I know, I stretched when he
first came and I said, it's like was not happy
with me because I wouldn't literally rip off his mixes.
But he invented this, or maybe not invented, but his

(40:47):
big thing was this day where you'd be playing a
song and then the line that everybody would sing you
turn the volume off so be like double xposse, like
oh no, my Jim half broke June June before on
the on the thing. And I just thought it was
like uptown baby town Baby, we get down baby, you know,

(41:09):
to dinner, and like, so this was so and I
love that. I thought it was so clever, and I
just started doing it all the time. And then obviously
in the beginning you're just picking up scraps of the
people that you that you look up to, but I
guess I also I loved what was called rare groove music,
like from all that kind of like mid tempo nineties,

(41:31):
like you know, not really rare records. But don't look
any further, baby, I'm scared of you, Silvia Stripling. And
I would play all those and and I loved building
a night and I was never afraid to play like
seven hours, like I just loved playing. And eventually I
got this sort of reputation as this DJ had good taste,
knew the classics, new hip hop, knew how to build
a room. And that's when, um, I guess also Puffy

(41:56):
and Jay and those people were coming to the clubs
I was playing, So it was all this kind of
nice dovetailing of I was I was gonna say, what
was the name of the club? Damn? Now now you're
you're now you're pulling me out where Now I'm remembering
that maybe I wasn't a New York club kid for
half a second, um, because I definitely remembered what was

(42:20):
the club that was across the street from Justin's. Oh yeah, yeah,
I've just been there a lot. Yeah that was Cheetah
has Cheetah and a Monday Nights And Jay shouts that
out and uh and do it again on one of
those songs. Yeah man, And and he says, I used
to fill in on Cheetah, and then I did Wednesday

(42:42):
Nights at Shine and then Fridays at Life. So every
night that he mentioned in that Cheetah Monday Night, Wednesday
night said Shine Evan with the model bitches, Friday Night
at Life or whatever it is. And I was like,
are online right? He used to Yes, he he would
often be there like was an event like until until

(43:02):
the a BT came along and solidified Mondays like you
were basically you know, usually my club nights would be
like if back then, especially on two inch reel, you know,
a mix with Bob Power would probably be something like
kind of like eight nine hours or whatever. So you know,

(43:24):
if you're starting at three in the afternoon or something like,
we get there late and the real gets there for
you know, Bob is basically like, you know, get out
of my hair and come back at midnight, like, let
me at least get the you know, get the mixed
straight first before you guys start micromanaging. So usually you know,
on on Mondays or whatever, coming see you play and whatnot?

(43:45):
What was it? All right? So well to be I
just want to cut out too, because Jules and Julian
were the main tjs on on Monday, specifically CHEATERD, but
they would let me fill in a I played the basement.
Otherwise usually I'd watch your sets, you know. So that's
like my memories of it, all right. So one of
the one of the discoveries we made in the last

(44:06):
five years of doing the show is that, um, you know,
a lot of are a lot of the accomplished producers
that we admire. Um, we're great DJs, and you know
that's the case with Jimmy jam Uh, definitely the case
with Dr Dre. And then you know, when I brought
this up to Dre, he explained to me that because

(44:29):
of the darress that he was under, he would say, like,
if you basically played the wrong song, you might risk
the club getting shot up. Yeah, he so he was
hyper aware of what he played, and he says that
that informs him of how he produces because it's almost
like there's no room for experiments. You have to be

(44:49):
spot on knowing what your audience responds to. So for
you though, in that particular atmosphere, because the thing is
is that I know I get away with murder and
you heard me experiment and do crazy shi it often.
But I know I can get away with murder in
front of a particular crowd that will let me do that.

(45:12):
But you know, my clientele was really never Puff or
jay Z or any of those, like any of those
parties that you know Steve Stout's going to show up at.
So what is it? What is what is the what
is it like? When you are the attraction at these

(45:34):
particular parties, because is it like what you really want
to do or what you think serves them that keeps
you working? Like what mine state are you in? It's
a little bit of both, you know. I I love
starting the night at ten pm because you could start
building and you could play classics and different records and
r and being builded into the hip hop. I hated
coming on at twelve thirty when the parties at the

(45:56):
peak and it's like, what's the first record? Like that
just gives me like anxiety of life. But the parties
that I was playing, I was pretty like, you know,
this is what I was never on the mic. This
is before people really cared or even looked at the
DJ like it. They only looked at it if you
fucked up. Really, So like I love the anonymity of
being a DJ and just keeping the night rocking and

(46:18):
that that was it. But I remember like, yeah, occasionally
I'd throw a curveball or you know, after eight years
of playing the same kind of show, be like, oh
I wonder if I could sprinkle like rock and roll
in here or something. And I remember the Benjamin's was
the biggest record at the time, and uh, there was
that rock and roll remix of it, and I was
I wanted to play somehow, I wanted to play back

(46:40):
in Black by a C. D C. By the end
of this set, I was like, I just got you know,
when you go to the the setting, you're just like,
if I can just play these one or two songs
for me tonight, like that will kind of that'll do it.
And I remember I was like, all right, so right
on the Biggie I'll switch to the rock version, right
on the Biggie verse because no one's gonna stop dancing,
and I know what the is happening if Biggie's rapping, right,

(47:02):
And then right on that thing when he goes that's
all about the Benji Dana And obviously like a C.
D C is is like kind of in the books
as like as a hip hop break beat in some ways,
but not in the clubs where it was like a
lot of you know people, and it was like, you

(47:22):
know a lot of like cool people in downtown types
and then a lot of like drug dealers who were
spending twenty grand like a banquette to like look cool.
So like one of the banquettes was right behind the
d J booth and right when I played that once
that was playing for like eight seconds, his drug dealer
with like his friends and a lot of money and
champagne everywhere, like leaned over to me and it was like,

(47:43):
what the fuck are you playing? I mean, I can't
remember exactly what he said, but they were like times
I was like definitely like you couldn't get too creative,
but um, I think that, Yeah, I had a mix.
I was playing those crowds some night and then sometimes
I was playing for like slightly more like kind of
you know, just like miscellaneous crowds. You can play more
underground ship of different stuff. So at this period when

(48:07):
you're kind of like the the the darling of of
hip New York society as far as like being there
go to DJ um you know, like you were doing
the campaign with Aliyah for Tommy Hilfig or whatever, so
we knew you as DJ Mark Ronson, Like what is

(48:29):
how are you navigating in this double Dutch game of
how to get in the roots so that we now
know that you are a musician and a producer, Like,
at what point are you trying to figure out how
to really get inside of this thing so that we
take you seriously as a producer. Yeah. Well, I was
trying all the time to be honest at any time

(48:50):
I met someone at the club who wrapped to be
like kind of my house tomorrow like one pm, and
you know, let's make ship. And that was like when
someone introduced me to Saigon when he had just got
out of presenter, was like that, you know, Tsigon and
I would be together every day making music. And but
I really didn't know what I was doing. I probably
thought I did like everybody does at that age. I'm

(49:11):
fully informed, I'm arrived, i know what I'm doing, and
I was just figuring it out. And then was this
let me into one second, was this was the first century? Like, Okay,
you're gonna be You're gonna be making rap beats and
work with rappers. And I think, and if that's the case,
what was the album? What was the hip hop album

(49:32):
that called you to this is exactly what I want
to do? Mecca and the Soul brother Yes, yes, yes,
because although I think main Ingredient is probably my favorite
of Mecca is still I mean that's yet It's funny
you said that I ridiculed Kanye for saying that publicly,

(49:52):
but when I really think about it, I have a
way different relationship with me even though my favorite it's
almost like contr Rolls my favorite album, But I know
that eighteen fourteen is the better record for me. I
think it's only because the main ingredient is all that
we had living in London, and this is without the Internet,

(50:14):
without computers, without change the station, like you could turn
on the radio and you gotta listen to scat Man
and you know, like for real, like scat Man was
the only thing on radio in JAMERICAA. So it's like
I put that peat rock figure. So even though I
never say that's my favorite record of theirs, but I

(50:38):
have a way more fuzzier memory of that saving my
life than Mecca the Soul Bird. What was it? What
was about Mecca for you? Bart? Like, what was what?
What was that? Your kind of like I played in
a band. I played guitar in this band in high
school and then my drama. Scott was just like he
just loved rhythms and he was a really good drum

(51:00):
and he didn't want to talk about like Dave fucking
I don't even know these drummers and paradiddles and like
real like he was just into rhythms, interesting rhythm, so
he discovered it. He loved it obviously, probably because like
the drum fills and the things that that that that
that spoke to him, and he just played me reminisce.
One day we had come home from like a band rehearsal,

(51:22):
maybe like a really late night gig, and I was
sleeping on his floor and he he played it for me,
and I was so moved by I'd never heard a
rap song that really hit me like that hard and
the emo way, and I listened to it probably eleven
times in a row that night after you went to bed.
I was just like wanted to keep hearing it over
and over. And I think that that was probably one
of the first things we had rappers come up on

(51:43):
stage with us when we were like this band, but
we were like sloppy kids, like we were not holding
it down. So I was just like, Okay, well, I'm
not a rapper, I don't know anything about producing, but
I love this music and that's what kind of led
me out of the band and to become a DJ.
And then so that's I though it still has that
once I did Discover production. I think that was always

(52:04):
this kind of like, I don't know, Touchstone, what year
did you start DJ three? So just at the end
of my senior year, um, and I remember the first
four twelve inches I bought at Rock Consul. I bought
Time for some Action, rebirth of Slick Ziggy Raking in

(52:25):
the Dough and the original Blue Tank. Yeah, the original
of Protect Your Neck, the original original Risk Makers Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, ope,
still got that because that ship is worth man. Listen, yeah,
it's worth money. Now. I was the best year. I

(52:46):
don't care what nobody really Yeah, it was amazing. So
what was the what was your what was your weapon
of choice when you are making these beats? Like what
did you start off? I got? I went in the
story to get this NPC sixty or I had kind
of saved up or I had enough for half of it,

(53:08):
and then I was like, I want to pay for
this on lay away or whatever it is, and he
was like, well, by the time you're ready to pay
it off, actually the MPC three thousand will be out.
So I so I managed to get that. It was
a year later, and uh, I had made really archaic beats.
My stepdad, you know, being a musician, had an S
nine hundred or a KAI I don't even know which

(53:30):
one it was in his And then I fifty the
rack mount and and I made some really like like
really like rudimentary beats where I didn't know how to
adjust the time, but I knew that if I could
get the samples to be exactly the same tempo and
lent that if I just hit play on both of
them at the same time, I could kind of make

(53:50):
it work. And that's and someone was like, this kid
that I was making beats for my school was like,
you know, that's what djaying is, essentially, like blending two
things together on time. You would probably like that. And
so that was part of the reason as well that
I'm sure that I've kind of led me to the path.
But NPC three thousand was my first beat machine. Oh.
Also side news, speaking of uh, your stepfather, he's not

(54:15):
to be mistaken for Mick Jones of the Clash, not
an that's another Mick Jones. Yeah. I was about to say,
you got crazy Mick Jones, Mick Jones and the other
Mick Jones. Yeah, yeah, still legendary, But yeah, I was
going to say, because I was like, wait a minute,
the class right, yeah, exactly right, exactly, Um, okay, so

(54:41):
would you would you say your first steady client was Saigon?
He was the first, like I guess rapper. There are
some rappers, um, from from my school, like I went
to Vassar College for one year, uh, and there were
some rappers up there who I worked with, Lodi and
Ian lovely guys. And then I came back to the

(55:01):
city and someone introduced me to Saigon. So he was
like the first person that was like over my house.
And actually John Forte as well at this time as
good friends with John, and we had this weird production
duo called Epstein and Sons. I have no idea why
we called it Epstein and Sons, and uh weird. He
would be over at my place all the time, and

(55:24):
so yeah, and then and then Saigon sometimes would bring
down like sticking and one from Dead President. I remember
very obvious reasons, being like very nervous when they came
over to my house, I don't know what they're gonna
think of me, and then also being slightly disappointed when
they weren't like horrible to me, like almost like standing
in the front sitting in the front row at Don

(55:45):
Rickles concert, and he doesn't insult what's going on. That's
why I've paid for They were they were, they were.
They were very very cool and and patient with me
because I really know now that I didn't, you know,
what funk I was doing. But the person that really
plucked me from like just anonymity, like just to kind

(56:08):
of DJ. It was like DJ the Hot Parties was
our friend Dominic. Yeah, and so tell the story of
how that morphs into you can I say that is
Nikka like your first like major work as a producer
Nica of course by a country mile for sure. Okay, wow,

(56:29):
so we I worked on like your first production. I
was like, yeah, that's why I was so fucking I
laugh about that. Like the first time we go into
the studio, it's like I've been in the studio. It's
like you and Peano and Jane. Somebody was just saying like,
don't get used to this, Like I remember that. Yeah,
this this is one of those legendary moments where where

(56:52):
you know, like Electric Ladies just going to be just
an open house of whoever comes in, and you know
it's it's not it's not normal for a person to
be generous and let like usually like if someone finds
a good sound and a good room or whatever, they
like lock it down and they're like, no one else
goes in this room but us. But it was almost like,

(57:14):
you know, he was like, well, you know, obviously if
I say three pm, I'll be here at seven or
eight pm. So you know, whatever y'all do in the daytime,
it's cool with me as long as that, you know,
once I get there, So we would just take advantage
of all those early hours and work on other things.
I kind of feel like that album needs to be

(57:34):
rereleased in a way released yeah, because I feel like
there's a generation of people who don't understand Nicka Costa
killed that ship and then drop them. Mike, it was like,
I don't know that. Yeah. It was the twentieth anniversary
like last week, and I was like, you know, Nika,
it doesn't get you know a lot of problems a
lot of people. Anytime that song comes on, people like,

(57:56):
oh yeah, funk I love that song, my my fiance
partner whatever, included like people because it was in the
health figure commercial and then everybody got there's something you
ended up as the yeah, I was so have I
for you? That was my favorite on that record. Yeah, no,
she she really wrote some wonderful songs on that record.

(58:18):
So what was what was the collaboration process like with
you Nik and I assume Justin also worked Justin Stanley. Yeah,
So so Don would come to the parties that I
would DJ like Life and stuff, and that he would
be like, I'd be playing one of my regular sets
that would be like Rufus, the Chakka Khan e p MD,
then the Biggie and then at the ends maybe Seven

(58:39):
Nation Army or that probably wasn't even out yet, but
some kind of rock ship missed you by the Stones.
And he was like He's like, I don't know if
you make music or not, but like I have this
singer and I just like she's incredible. She has the
best poice. And all I know is that her record
supposed to sound like this DJ set. It's amazing that
Dom saw something in you. Yeah, that was Dom's real gift.
Dom was able to see something in you that you

(59:03):
yourself wouldn't see. I would almost say like you know,
all right, you know, like Puffy kind of has that
he can sell you. The Brooklyn Bridge thing against your will.
There's something about him that makes you say yes, even
if it's like like I know instantly when he calls
the phone, I'm like, no, I'm not doing this gig.
I can't spend what's our playboy? Yea, we got we

(59:25):
got magic to me And then suddenly you're like, yes, dude,
I will do for fore off the price that I
normally charged. Like, but Dom also had. Don was just
one of the greatest motivational pushers, Like he's the one

(59:45):
that talked all that all the magic that came from
Electric Lady. Chances are Dom was there as the foundation
of YO, do this idea? So you know he um,
yes he did, and he's was like, I'll come to
your studio. Was because I was probably just like, yeah,
I make beats or whatever. He's like, let me come

(01:00:07):
to your students what we do. So I had this
little studio in my bedroom at his apartment on Sullivan
Street and he was doing space Jam at the time
or just finished it, and he was like, I need
a remix of Seal did Fly Like an Eagle, and
I need a hip hop remix, So why don't we try.
I think that was like just to see if I
could do anything, and yeah, and it was not very good.
And I tell you, I almost feel like I can

(01:00:27):
still remember him, like almost like holding my hand through
like the production of this remix to try and get
me to make it better. Like I like, you know,
like I was doing these kind of Stevie J Puffy
type drums, a lot of shakers and yeah before the thing, yeah,
all of it. And then and but then somehow I
must have done something that just gave him a little

(01:00:48):
more faith. And then a couple of months later he
brought Nika to my studio. Uh, and I still didn't
have the match for her musicality, but then justin her
husband came into the equation. It was very musical and
knew his way around a studio. And then that was
kind of the trio. You were there for that, Steve,

(01:01:08):
were you not? Yes? I was definitely yea rust rusted
all the work up. But I'm the secret sauce. It's
the same old story. He got the bacon, I get it. Yes,
I I'm sorry. Now. Those were very very cool sessions,
I mean, very memorable for me because I was just
starting out too and the music was so good, so

(01:01:31):
happy to be because I had to do all kinds
of different sessions where the music was of varying degrees
of quality. Let's say I was about to say, if
you're an engineer on a session that of a song
you don't like, then I don't even know what that's
like for a person, you know what I mean, just

(01:01:52):
to be held against their will listening to a song
where sh ain't good. It's not good at all. Yeah,
I remember that, Like my favorite was just because man
that that ship could still me, That ship could come
out tomorrow and I'd still ride for that thing. And
that's also one of my favorite. I would probably say

(01:02:16):
that's probably if I were to compile a top five
of like my drumming performance, because the thing is, the
weird thing is is that I'm serving the song so
much that I'd never get to not have fun but
just be be myself. I don't know if it's like
me being tofu like I have to bend to the
will of what the song sounds. Yeah, and with just

(01:02:39):
because usually if I wind up sounding like Steve Arne,
that's more like the natural me, Like that's not me
trying to sound like a breakbeat or me trying to
redo this beat or not get kicked off my own
song because it doesn't sound hip hop enough or whatever.
It's so it's but I'll yeah, I'll say that just
because it was was one of my probably I put

(01:03:03):
that in my top five, like drum sounds that I
actually that I dig. I need to listen back. I
remember Billy Preston came in and we were really excited
for him to play piano and that was the whole thing.
And he came into the studio and we were like
wow and he just like sat down and listening to
the whole thing. It was like, nah, the demo piano
is pretty good. And she was like no, No, that's

(01:03:24):
just something that I just played like just for your guys.
I don't hear. I'll play some cloud though, and like
that was it. There was like no, we were just
so psyched, like Billy Preston is gonna play piano this
thing and he was just like, no, let play some
cloud for you. How long was it until um you

(01:03:46):
got a chance to work on UM, I'm about to
say the UI record, not Whui, You're you're here, Here
comes the fuzz your first Yeah, that was basically off
the back of Nika's album was like a lot of
buzz about it just before it came out. It was
in this Hill Figure commercial and I had this little
moment of like, you know, it's there's It's never better

(01:04:09):
than the moment just before the record comes out, because
it's just like the possibilities end listening, you look just
look like a you know, that's whatever. So I got
this deal with Electra Records that thing at the time,
because you know, I had a little name as a DJ,
nowhere near like the name recognition of the Clues and
the Flexes and the people that were getting those big
mixtape deals. But I also had this record that people

(01:04:31):
were excited about, like a feather in the slightly new sounds.
So I got this deal and then uh yeah, it
took me a year to make that record, and that
came out in two thousand and and three. Um, and
I got dropped a week after the album came out,
because it's yeah, pretty much got dropped. Like the record,

(01:04:53):
I think they spent a lot of money on it.
I had a lot of big cameos on it. They did,
but um, I think that it just you know, did
it charted in England where it was sort of like
you know, number twelve or something, but still a lot
of in Europe. It was big enough to make a
little dent there, but no, I remember having to pay

(01:05:15):
out of my own pocket to get Nate Dog and
ghost Face to come out to do the Craig Kilborn
show because at that point, like a week later, lecture
just like closed the close the budget. Wow, So how
did you at least at that point I think this
that the Fuzz came out with like two thousand three
that three, yeah, and it was like around okay, So

(01:05:37):
at that point, like were you your own point person?
Like did you know Rivers Cuomo and Jack White and
like all the people that were on that first record
For the most part, the people that I didn't really
know personally were Rivers Cuomo and Jack White because they
were sort of more from Rockworld and Jack was in
Detroit and Rivers is l a that wasn't But anybody

(01:05:58):
else I could kind of call because if by you know,
just being in the New York clubs for so long,
and I even remember when you have seen then most
came and we did our song We're like, you know,
it sounds so good on this MP like wouldn't it
be cool? There was just like the seventies when like
Eric Clapton would call up like Dwayne Allmon to be
like come down and play on this thing. I was like, well,

(01:06:19):
let's just try and call them and see if they'll
they'll come. So we were like called Lais or whatever
the manager and then uh, they did come. They just
they came three days later. We just didn't know. I'm
still waiting in the studio. They came Sunday afternoon. But
you know it was amazing. But now all the people Freeway, Um,
Sean Paul, these were just people that I sawhow had

(01:06:41):
a relationship with from just like one degree of separation
from the clubs. Were just like I knew them, you
know when did? Uh? When did because around the time,
but I mean I knew you're the stuff you did
with Nick and everything. But around the time that I
came became familiar with you with the hip hop stuff
was with Saigon I had to do Done did record
and then also with Ron Festing. Yeah crowd, How did

(01:07:06):
how did all that come about? We used to play
the Foreign Exchange Records so much on that tour. Thank
you so much, loved, loved, it um. That came about
through uh, my friend Ron Mine and DJ Indiana Jones,
who you know sadly in the past. Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah,
it's crazy when you start talking to these people that

(01:07:28):
just don't seem that far away in your life there
and not with us. But anyway, Ron was Ryan Fest
was Chicago, um, but I was living in Indianapolis at
the time, and and Ron but I knew, and it
brought him to New York and we just started hanging out.
I just loved the way that he just like, he
just liked all this weird other ship too, because I'm

(01:07:50):
not very good at making straight up the middle of music,
and you know, to a fault, I can't like pick
a genre even within one song. But me and Ryan
Fest had a lot of funny together and then he
kind of came on the road, and then we had
a labels we put out his record and yeah, yeah
it was the leader was that the only was his
record the only record that came out on that label?

(01:08:11):
Or did he put out anything else? Daniel Merryweather, I
was right, and the first while at album wait a minute, yeah,
I forgot before he went to may Back. Everyone was
way better after they left us. No, Daniel, Daniel Mr
has sold a lot of records. His love a War

(01:08:32):
that was that was yours? Right, yeah, Jane saw was
I love that song? So you know that's great Daniel
love listening to this. Wait a minute, damn, this is
killing me now because I was under the impression. Okay,
I'll admit there's a lot of like transparency admissions by

(01:08:52):
quest love this episode. Of course, I when I saw
your label name, I couldn't for some reason that I
just it just read dildo to me. Wow, But I didn't.
I didn't expect that, right. But the thing is is
that when I read it again, I was like, oh,

(01:09:15):
all I do because he probably loves it. For Stevie
won the record? What is the name of your label? Well,
that's the thing. It was all I do for the
Stevie song. But the first records that Saigon, you know,
put out a few signals with us, and he would
just yell out a lito like at the end of
the song. We're like, okay, Well, the first person who
said our name is public record has already said Aldo,

(01:09:36):
you know it's not the great That's exactly what it was.
I heard him say, Yeah, and that's what I thought
the label name was because Ryan, Yeah, yeah, it's it's
not a good sign when the people within the label
can't even agree how to pronounce the set. You know
the title, so you know that's how it was, But
how did you say it? Mark? Yeah, what was the

(01:09:57):
Why did you name it that? It's so I don't
know because dildo was already taken. So it would like
I just love this TV song and I should have
just made everybody commit to one pronunciation. Correct. I was correct.
It is all I do. Yeah, Okay, I was getting

(01:10:19):
worried about myself for a second. I was like, damn,
I have it wrong. The hold time when music Social
album came out, was you mad because it was like
everybody got those for some reason? All I do? That's
just I love. I love the idea of like this
kind of like bad like nerdiest comedy sketch of like

(01:10:40):
mispronouncing all the word famous famous rap labels. So it's
like I'd like to play this record by Big Boy Records.
Oh wait, that's another see I wish I'm paid. Bill
was here. Uh, it just hit me. I was trying
to figure out remember when we were trying to figure

(01:11:02):
out what a Manda Green was like the Prince way
of writing things out, and it's called a Manda Green.
I was. I was trying to figure out who's the
king of Manda Greens now, and that's yeah, that's music,
soul Child's lane, unpaid bills not here for that, alright.
So with hashtags, my mom's hashtags on Instagram or just
like crazy run on sentences that are just okay. So

(01:11:27):
Mark two thousand six, man, I mean, I probably told
you this story before, but to to to even the
amount of paralyzed producers that's set and tried to figure
this ship out. When we got back to black and

(01:11:49):
I got a call from Jazz, I didn't get a call.
I was in I was in Barcelona and Jazzy Jeff
Instant messaged me whatever a O L Instant message and
he's like, man, I'm depressed and he's like what He's like,
Ronson's king. I was like huh and then he sent me,
uh the file to the album and literally the I

(01:12:13):
called it and I was like, wait, who produced this?
And he says Mark Ronson. I said no, no, no
DJ Mark Ronson. He's like, yes, that Mark Ronson. No
DJ Mark, like, you know NBC the New York Knicks
beats that Mark ronson. He's like yes, And I was

(01:12:33):
just frozen, yo, I said, until showtime. I sat in
that room and listening to that album for seven hours.
So how did you connect with with Amy at the time?
Like he just explained the relationship. Yeah, Like, well, I
remember just saw that Jazzy Jeff thing. I remember this
because records weren't so global then, they didn't just blow

(01:12:56):
up like this, so like I didn't know if people
in America had heard the album yet. And I remember
being about to board a plane in some airports somehow,
and there was a message from Jazzy Jaff and I
heard on my phone and he goes, yo, Mark, this
is Jeff. He had never called me before, but you
know we're cool. And he was like, uh, what you
just did? Like everybody's sucking with this, Like that was

(01:13:17):
the first call I got from one of my peers
of someone I looked up to. Is this affirmation of
the record? It meant so much. I remember exactly. I
was standing outside looking at the window of the planes
on the ground when I listened to that message from Jeff.
That's how like much it meant to me, but um
to go back. So I met Amy because I had
had a little bit of you know, heat off of

(01:13:39):
that we record in England. Just people kind of knew
why I wasn't. Guy Moot, who was the head of
E M I Music Publishing at the time, amazing are cool, guy,
Uh call me and he said, hey, Amy Winehouse is
in UH is in New York for a couple of days.
You want to meet with her? And I didn't have
fucking ship else going on anyway, but I was like, yeah,

(01:13:59):
I remember that girl because I because I made you
Look as one of my favorite tracks of all time,
and I loved her song in my bed. I used
to play it, you know in the sets here. Um.
And she came to the studio and I met her
and I actually met her at the front door, and
uh she came up the same time and she was like, yeah,
I'm here to see Mark Runson. I was like, yeah,
I'm Mark and she goes, no, no like Mark Runson.

(01:14:22):
I was like no, no, I am him and she goes,
I thought you were like, oh guy with a bid
or something like. I think she just like I probably
heard my name for longer, like thought I was somebody
or whatever. Yeah, just like a different like an older
producer or something. So yeah, that's it exactly. So we

(01:14:44):
like when and we went and sat in lepan Cootie
to the end on Grand and Mercer and we just
talked for a minute. I instantly liked it because she
was so funny, I mean, you know, and uh, we
came up into my room, and you know, usually at
that point it was this thing where I'd play beats
for people. Do you like this? You like this? But
the minute she started talking about music, I just knew
that I had nothing near what she was talking about.

(01:15:05):
But it was so exciting, and I said, what kind
of record do you want to make? Because she says, well,
they play this stuff down at my local, like the
Shango Laws and stuff. So we listened to it and
it's maybe a little familiar with something from like a
Scorsese film, but that wasn't my ship. And then um,
I was like, well, listen, I don't have anything like that,
but if you come back tomorrow, like, let me just

(01:15:28):
wunk around tonight and come back and see if there's
anything you like. So I stayed up all night and
I was like running around in this live room back here,
I've seen with every fucking instrument, and I came up
with the chords on the piano for back to Black,
and I just put a little like kicking tambourine on
it and put a fucking reverb on everything, because I
was like, Oh, that's she likes this ship, that's what
it sounds like. And she came back the next morning

(01:15:50):
and I was I was like nervous, but I was
also so delirious from being up all night, like lack
of sleep, working on this thing. And she sat behind
me and I just kind of hit play. I was like, yeah,
I made this thing last night, what do you think?
And she just kind of had a head down like this,
and then then uh, it finished, and she just like
stuffing and she goes, yeah, I love it. I want
my whole fucking album to sound like this. Because she

(01:16:10):
never she had such a wasn't eve at poker Face.
She just never was gonna like gosh, she didn't you know,
that wasn't her hard thing. And so she like took
the CD, ran in the back room, wrote like the
words and the um everything in like an hour, and
and she stayed in New York an extra five days
so we could do the rest of the songs that

(01:16:31):
demo them, and then I was using every plug in
in the book to try and make it sound old.
I didn't know what the funk I was doing. And
just about that time I had met Dave Guy and
he had been playing on some other stuff I was doing.
I had started to do this version record of these covers,
so they were playing. I didn't know how to record
a band. I could barely just record a horn section.

(01:16:52):
So they had just played me this Verizon commercial they
had done with Sharon Jones that was like a cover
of Sigin Sealed Delivered or something like that, and I
was blown away. I was like, wait, you guys made
this like like today, Like how this you know this
sounds old. I don't understand how this happened. Like yeah,
it's Gabe Man, He's a genius engineers the guys and

(01:17:12):
we planned this is our other band. So I asked Amy.
I played it for Amy and I was like, Yo,
this ship sounds incredible, Like we let me go ask
this band to play these demos. The sound has been
working on, she said. I played it when she goes
yes the nuts like that was her expression if something
was really good, she liked that fucking Verizon commercial. Whatever is.

(01:17:33):
So then at that point, you you've never heard of
Sharon Jones and the dad Kings and just that whole
underground Brooklyn. I knew the stuff on Pure because I
had sampled something off there on my first record, so
something else they had done, but I didn't really know
the Brooklyn scene, and because I got dropped from my
my label rather unceremoniously a week after my album came out,

(01:17:54):
apparently some of the samples hadn't been paid for either.
So when I finally met Gay Brol wait, did you
do brand new from Romfest? No? No, I didn't not. Um.
I was walking past the Mercury Lounge. I probably knew
somehow how I was going to get in touch with
the Dap Kings, but I didn't really know. And it

(01:18:15):
said tonight Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings. I was like, Fuck,
these are the guys I'm looking for, you know. So
I walk in off the street and Gabe's kind of
like closing up his base. The gig is over. I'm like, hey,
I started talking a mile a minute, probably trying to
give him the cell and Dad Dada he like clicks.
He's like, I need the guy that sample. Yeah, I
never got paid for that song that you sampled from

(01:18:37):
your record. I was like, I'll definitely take care of that. Yeah,
so sorry, Da Dada and like, can you just come
and like if can I play these demos and like
if you like him, maybe like we work something out
and we could do the record it. And so I
think Gabe just relented eventually and he came to my
studio a couple of days later. Amy was already back
in London and I played the demos and Gabe was like, Okay, well,

(01:19:00):
I mean I have to check with Homer. Like Homer
it's hard for him to get someone to watch his
dog a lot of the time. And like he's did Caroen,
like they're so in their own world. He wasn't caught up.
There was nothing that would have enticed about money. I
think he always found and he said this before, the
Amy song is quite intense emotionally and like a little
down and their music is so uplifting and soulful that

(01:19:21):
like he also wasn't quite sure about like the lyrics
and stuff. You know, it wasn't really his thing. He's
a very pure, like instinctual guy game. But we got
it together and uh we caught Amy wasn't here, but
I had all her vocals from the demos on a
c d J that I brought to the studio and
the band, you know, doesn't play to click, So the

(01:19:43):
band would start and I would run Amy's acapella on
a CDJ, speeding it up and slowing it down with
the band so they could hear the vocal while they track,
like you know, the Temple with just this, so they
so they hear her voice while they're tracking from the
demo and the one song I really didn't have an

(01:20:06):
arrangement that I liked for I was, you know, I'm
no good. I kind of hated it, and I didn't
know what to do with those chords because it was
kind of like it reminded me of like a Spanish
FLAMENCOI thing because of the chords, and I had this
very on the nose beat that was like bood but
huh that dudu and and and I remember just playing

(01:20:31):
that one for the band. We had already done Back
to Black and some of the other ship and I
was confident enough to be like I hate this thing
that I did. Can you guys just think of like
anything cooler to just play right there? And I think
like three seconds Home and Nick looked at each other
and I was just like, how about Doom? Did you doom? Doom?
June done done? And I just remember just being like,

(01:20:52):
this is one of the greatest moments of my life.
I know, I know, you know, so you did all
the tracking at at the Tone Studios. The reason I'm
coming off to Mic is because I I just found
because these are the lyrics to Back to Black how
she wrote them, and it's got these are going to

(01:21:13):
a museum and ship but like just for the last
couple of days I get to hold on to him.
But um yeah, it's even got like a phone number
of this guy like Broncaz who used to do this
thing last night's parties. She must have got his number
the night before and all the other ship. What museum
is it going to be in? Oh? Anybody who wants it?
I mean, I just I just realized, like I found

(01:21:34):
these rather recently, and I just realized that I do
not need to have these. These need to be somewhere
where people can see it and enjoy it. Yeah, I
wanted to ask markmt what was the What were your
thoughts on the Amy documentary? Um? The one that uh,
the one that came. I saw it in theater. I
can't remember the name of it years ago, but I

(01:21:55):
think it was just It might have been just Amy. Um.
What were your thoughts on that? And do you think
that captured in your opinion, you know who she really
was as a person. The I remember the first hour
of it. I was just in love with it because
you got all of the joy of Amy, all the humor,
the wit, like the talent. I hadn't even really understood

(01:22:16):
how amazing the lyrics to songs like fuck Me pumps
and stuff on the first album that I wasn't that
familiar was. Until I saw that, I was like, wow,
and it was like spending time with an old friend.
The second half is very hard to watch, but I
thought it was well done. I have a little bit
of a problem relationship with it because you know, Ray

(01:22:38):
Cosbert and her dad are people that I care about
that Amy cared a lot about and probably wouldn't feel
great about them being treated disparagingly. But then it was
also brutally on his film, so I thought it was
a very difficult to watch. I've only seen it once,
but I did think it was a powerful film that
was like I think as I saw that sent of

(01:23:00):
film and I was like, did the other documentary that
guy made for us? And I was like, this guy
is gonna make a movie as weighty as her work,
Like I feel like she deserves a great filmmaker. This
is what I want to know, because you and and
and Salam sort of held the majority of the weight

(01:23:22):
of the album that production. Are YouTube comparing notes? Are
you hearing each other's demos? Because the thing is is
that sonically that album um sounds you know, seamless, it's
it's it's absolutely seamless. But you know, how are you
too even knowing what the do? You? Are? You guys

(01:23:44):
even comparing notes? Like what the others doing to make
it make it that way? And who sort of gets
the who's theft to the forty nine? Like who decides
song order and all that stuff? Really, I'm asking why
was Addicted treated like a a bastard step child? I
know that wasn't your song, but yeah. In the London version,

(01:24:08):
the album opens with Addicted. Wow. In the American version,
it's like the last song, like the American version opens
with rehab and I'm like, wait, what, Like yeah, because
they're like Americans have short detention spans, we have to
I don't. I really don't know. I'm sure. I'm sure
she had nothing to do with that either. But um, yes,

(01:24:30):
I think, to be fully honest, Salaman had an incredible
musical bond. And uh, Salam has made many of my
favorite tracks, like Stone. Just the fact that he bought
you know you said when you said your twelve inch
was breaking in the dough, I'm like, man, yeah, that's
all of it. Um, and uh. But I think that

(01:24:51):
they were doing a similar thing, a little closer to
what they had been doing on on Frank and they
heard and Salam heard the demos. Amy said she was
very excited about it, and then Salam took it into
more of a live direction that maybe he would have
done anyway. But I think he was probably excited to
get to do that as well. So initially his work
was more contemporary and whatnot, and then once you brought

(01:25:15):
it to the sixties, then he adjusted his music accordingly. Yeah. Yeah,
that's what I've been told. Yeah, okay, okay, I get it,
you know, in in a in a year of highlights,
like in two thousand and six, two thousand seven, especially
when you win Producer of the Year, Like what's what's

(01:25:37):
going through your mind as their reading off the nominations.
And I mean by that point, were you basically like
I got this or no? No, because it was still like,
you know, Timberland was up, and I was like they
could easily give it to him for like a life
service whatever. But you know, I'm not an idiot, gonna're
not going to pretend like I know what ticks Grammy

(01:26:00):
otis boxes and this was like a record that really
fell in that zone because it had touches of the
classics in the past, and it's like a nod to
the old school ship. Um but um no, I don't.
I do remember I was very hungover at the Grammys,
which because I was just like part like that was
my first time at the rodeo. Suddenly I kind of

(01:26:21):
made it like I'm like high fiving Rhianna some party
the night before like with my christ stupid like beetles,
blowout Bob or something that I was wearing. But um,
I was pretty hungover. It was very surreal I do
remember when they read out Producer of the Year, my
friend had to like kind of like shape. It was like, hey,
they said your name, like you know, like it's in
the movie, but the Grammys themselves. I took my mom

(01:26:44):
and uh, you know, we sat next to each other.
Obviously is my first time there. But like, you know,
there's no food, there's no water, you're hungover. It's like that,
you know, it's basically like sitting next to my mom
in synagogue on Jan Kapor. It's like the same thing.
It's just like, okay, when is this gonna end? But
it was. It was also a magical night. Where do
you keep your Grammys right now? They're in storage? Um,

(01:27:10):
because I'm like moving in between places, but um yeah, yeah,
because like majority of people using them as doorstops or
you know, well kind of like yeah whatever, that's the thing.
And I remember it was so cool, like when we
got the ones for Amy that gave Roth from you know,
Daft Tones was just so cool and he like sent

(01:27:30):
his to his grandmother because that's how little he cares.
But at that point, like mine was definitely on the
fucking mantel, Like it was the first thing you saw
when you walked into into the house, and so yeah,
he was a little more spiritual than I was. I
want to ask you about Valerie man Um that what
made y'all cover that song? Because I I was surprised, like,
even though I knew the album you know, Version, it

(01:27:53):
didn't occur to me. I'm like, this is a cover?
I thought that was her song? Yeah, you know what
I mean? What y'all to that? Um? So basically i'd finished,
I've been doing this album of version of like concurrently,
And basically it was because I was tired of in
my DJ sets whenever I played a song occasionally by
the Smith's or Radiohead of like maybe being in danger

(01:28:14):
of getting a bottle thrown in my head. So I
was like, I wonder if I can take these songs
that I love by these bands and like re kind
just cover them and just make them in a way
that I can play them in my sets. So I
made this covers of like of you know, these are
rock songs, and uh. At the very end, Um, I
was finished back to Black with Amy, and I was like, Hey,
it would be a shame we've done all this work

(01:28:36):
together if you weren't on my record. Like, uh, we
should think of something. Do you know any guitar songs?
Because all she knew was fucking nas most and like,
you know, the new Birth. So she said she's like,
I was like, I she was, I know this one
song they play at my local it's called Valerie, and
she played it for me, the Zutones version, and I

(01:28:57):
kind of didn't hear it at first because it was
like a stodgy kind of rock, like mid tempo stonesy thing.
But she knew those two chords, those classic two soul
cords going back and forth, was like and what her
voice would sound like over it, and we just wrote
a quick chart, went in the room. It was the
first time she had met the dad Kings. They played
all over a record the record was out, but she

(01:29:19):
had never met them, so it was kind of a
magic moment. She once called me actually from England when
she must have first got the album Booklyn. She was like,
is there, Matt, Do you mean to tell me that
someone named Binky grip Ty who played on my album?
And I was like, yeah, he's fucking amazing, And so
she came to to Brooklyn. It was a big love
in and then we were like let's do this Valerie song.

(01:29:42):
And we played it and they did it in a
really nice like what's that band of that Curtis Mayfield
produced The Young Kids sixties. They were like they were
like yeah, like as two sisters and two brothers, they
did try love again, the creation creation creative forces. No,

(01:30:04):
I wouldn't create a source because that was which okay,
well anyway, they were like one of those like they
were like a kind of they had a big song,
Trilove again. Anyway, so they did it in a very
Curtis like nineteen sixty six style, and I liked it,
but there was just that greedy, like hit maker fucking
part of my brain that like literally everyone's packing up

(01:30:25):
the instrance, are like, you guys are gonna kill me,
but can we just do like one version where like
you just really just go like do you could do
like really simple, like just dumb and so they're like
like open the guitar case, back up, go back in
and pug in. And then that was the version that
was like yeah, because it was popp hear and more
instant like that. I love that song, man, What was

(01:30:47):
you mention? Radio hit? What radio hit song? The Natural
four d sorry Um the Radiohead song. Well, I used
to cute Tip loves radio whenever in his car here
he would play just. We were listening to a lot
of radio, but the song just and that guitar part
in the middle Daann Dank and Dan Dan Dan, and like,

(01:31:14):
I was so in love with that thing. I would
just want to play that part over and over again,
so I would just you know, that was the song
we covered out. I was like, yeah, I was the
bens that I was like beings or I don't know.
If he was playing like I probably would have, but
I wasn't like crowds weren't cool enough. I don't think
I ever played radio Head actually in the cut. But

(01:31:35):
you could play the video tech and that that that's
my that's my sleeper. Yeah, you know when you wind
down the set and you know it's be empty and everything. Yeah,
everything in that's the right place. When they play that
live like that is so fucking euphoric. When he's on
the electric Roads and just m okay, so I gotta

(01:31:58):
know Glass Mountain Trust. Oh my god man, First of all,
how did you how did you wind up pulling that off?
And how long did it take and how many avil
did you have to take? Okay, So this is the
thing and I fully feel I I almost have guilt
of like I feel like I am not worthy of

(01:32:20):
having like the one D'Angelo song from like that that
came out during that era almost and like I wish
that if I knew it was going to be that,
that I had made it a better song or something.
But uh, Don was just back in my life at
that moment and coming to the studio and we were
making a studio at UM Tommy who does all the

(01:32:40):
Menahan Street Band and Charles Bradley stuff and the Buddhos
band at his studio in Brooklyn, and UM, a lot
of people were coming in and out. Mary J. Blige
to come by, John Legend. I was working my record,
so d came by and just like had that Jesse
Johnson guitar and like just jammed with us one night,
and uh it was kind of fun. And then I

(01:33:03):
just had this track and uh, the thing that's just
kind of funny, is that funny or whatever you wanna
call it is. Um we had just made up and
that old days of like putting a splank CD with
a track on it to give to somebody. I was like,
what I write on it? And I just asked my
friend Anthony Coody's like, I don't know, just right, Glass
Mountain Trust. That sounds fine. So I brought it to

(01:33:25):
gave it to Don abroad to D and D was
um co writing lyrics a lot at that time with
the woman who was in funk Adelic. Was it or
do you know what I'm talking about? Um, yeah, it's
um yeah yeah, and no, no, yeah, so so and

(01:33:46):
then so you know the song. The CD was out
for a week, turned to three weeks, turned to two months,
and Dom kept being like, you know, it's gonna make mastering,
don't worry, and like, sure enough it did. But um,
when I finally saw D, like uh much later, he
was like, yo, man, He's like that sounds so cool,
and you know, I'm so sorry it took so long,

(01:34:07):
but like I was just really trying to get to
the core of what Glass Mountain Trust meant lyrically, and
I was like, oh no, it's a joke. Title Like
he was just taking He just wanted to make sure
that he like honored, he was like, and he did
make it really cool. It was about smashing a like
a mountain and half when you like feel like you're

(01:34:27):
being trapped in a by a lover, like I was
some ship and I was just like, wow, right, can
you get that song? I just see on YouTube it's
on his own version. It was no, it was on
myself on record collection the next album. I've never heard
the sing aggressively, so it might sounds selo ish a

(01:34:49):
little bit because he just never sings in that in
the particular, the way that he's singing it. It's like
he has his way of singing on his records, but
this is very different than his other records. Yeah, it
was interesting. Yeah, yeah, man, I just wanted to tell you,
you know what I mean, just I'm so glad we're
having a chance to talk. I just wanted to thank

(01:35:10):
you for the Uptown Special record man, like I love
that album, like that's my favorite one of yours, and
it very much for me, was somewhat of a main
ingredient kind of effect, just because the first single, like
when I were Uptown Funk, I was like okay, I
mean I thought, I was like, all right, this is good,
but I'll check the album. And then I heard the

(01:35:31):
album and I was just blowing the funk away. I
was like, yo, um so just man, I mean from
from the songwriting perspective, the writer that you brought in
shabon Michael Shapan, Yeah, um talking talk to me about that,
Like what was he was he just sending lyrics? Did
he help with melodies? What? Because he's what was it
like working with a writer for record? Well? I I

(01:35:54):
knew I wanted to make an album that was like
a little more sophisticated musically, and Jeff Basker like written
and Try Sleeping with a Broken Heart and like a
couple of these things that were just like really cool,
clever quarterly, and I knew he was a Berkley guy
and we had met through Bruno, and so I was like,
let's make write some Steely Dan ship. And then like
we had some cool day. So we started, we started

(01:36:18):
writing some songs, and then we tried to do our
shitty version of like Steely Dan lyrics and they sounded
they were so bad. They were like the worst like
seventies am Rock one hit Wonder like when the people
tried to start making clever stories after Steely Dan. But
they were just like not like almost like a little
like a ride like the Wind. We were closer to
Christopher cross Ride like the Wind. So we're like, well,

(01:36:40):
what do we need is to get an author to
write these lyrics instead. So I was like, wow, I
love this guy, Michael Shaba and I feel like I
saw his name on an email once, so I was
supposed to be b cced, but everybody got cced. So
I'm gonna write him. I feel like, I know this
guy loves music, and I wrote him a really polite thing.
I said, I'm a huge fan of yours. You wrote

(01:37:01):
my favorite book of modern fiction, this book Cavalier and Clay.
And I said you want to try and be a
part of this thing, and he was like, yeah, I
love sucking Steely Dan there my fits on my favorite
authors ever. Let me come down and and and mess
with us. So we were in uh Venice at jeff
spot Um and we just started doing it. Sometimes he

(01:37:23):
would give us lyrics and that would kind of just
like sometimes it was great reading lyrics because suddenly melodies
would like form in my head, melodies I never would
have thought of if I was just like sitting down,
So that was fun. And then sometimes we just give
him the songs with like a melody going Danner Nan
or Nanna or dann it would be like now you
have to make syllables to all of it. That Yeah, no, man,

(01:37:47):
that record that was just such a it was such
a big just a price because I didn't because Uptown
Phone was like big and you know, glossy and kind
of like became just this monster hit. But the stuff
on there, like the Summer Breaking ban Kevin, I'm really proud, Like, man,
I love those things. I mean now I listened to
it and I feel like we're going a little like

(01:38:08):
two on the notes for the seed then like really
like the music and the lyrics and all of it,
but like it's it's I still really, I still really,
I mean I haven't listened to it so long, but
I'm proud of that music. Yeah, it's odd you thought
silly Dan, I would I didn't get that. Now that
you say it, I get, I hear, but I wasn't
thinking that. I definitely like when I heard in Case

(01:38:29):
of Fire, to me, it sounded just like some kind
of dirty like bar band ship, you know what I mean,
you know what I mean? I was like, Yo, this
is this is cool. I had that riffer. I had
that riff around Forever, and that was actually like I
wrote it as a coda to like a fucking Rufus
Wainwright song and he never wanted to. I gave Rufus
publishing on that riff because I was like, well, this
kind of this riff really did come because I wrote

(01:38:51):
as a code of yeah, I saw, I saw you
gave publishing on two on the I Can't Lose joint
to uh Pal Joey, I get oh yeah drum drum
break from Hot Music. Yeah, and the singer one that
taught to me about that because she was I mean
she I hadn't heard of her before, and I read
the story of like y'all were looking for like a

(01:39:13):
singer for that particular song, and y'all kind of wanted
to get kind of you know. Yeah, Me and Jeff
decided Jeff is like very smart and like has he's
very like it gets caught in an idea and it's
like there's no stopping until we get there, and he's um,
he had this idea that we should really, like if
we wanted to make an album influenced by blues, army

(01:39:35):
and gospel, that we should drive from New Orleans all
the way up like the Delta along the Mississippi, the
same way that that music also migrated. And we drive
there and go to churches and everything so and and
look for singers too. So like our dumbass like all
we were missing was the blues brothers suits and the
sunglasses like so, but it was amazing and we did

(01:39:58):
and like we went like that's I like, we went
to like Jackson, Mississippi, Like that's why that lyric ended
up in uptown Funk because like you know, just like
you went to Jackson, Mississippi, and we went to you know,
found um um mystical in uh yeah in bat Rooge
exactually sorry, which was my brain is space now, but

(01:40:20):
um yeah. And so all that stuff had happened on
that trip. And then Keani we've met in in Jackson
and she was just an incredible singer and just had
a great tone and a nice burnt like bit to
her voice, and we just yeah, we just put her
on the whole record. How did you get the story
of Stevie playing harmonica? And I totally understand You're so

(01:40:41):
real for bringing him back for that second, like using
it again, for cracking the parole boiceo and I would
have did the same thing. How to rerock that? She again? Yeah,
what was what was that? Like? Man, I had this
song that we had written, and I had this melody
to this Michael Shaba lyrics, and every time I tried
to sing the words, I didn't really like it that much,
just like I just felt like it should be instrumental.

(01:41:03):
And then I got so caught up in my head
and you know, it's stev like a lot of us,
my favorite musician of all times. Particularly harmonica playing is
so evocative, and I just started saying, like out loud
to myself, you know, the only thing that you really
play this melody is Stevie wondering the harmonica, And like
I was like making sure not to set out too
loud because it sounds crazy. And I had this thing

(01:41:24):
and towards the end of the record, I was just like,
I'm just gonna send Rob Light at CIA, who I
just signed there, and he was like really cool and
he said he was close to Steve. I was like,
can you just send this thing to him and just
see uh? And I wrote it like a really you know,
not really yeah, really nice posting no, and then uh,

(01:41:46):
and then it's like, yeah, same thing. D day, like
day before mastering, I get this thing in my inbox
that said Stevie Harp session and it was so intense
to see it, Like I actually couldn't even like open
the session I was just sitting in front of this
basebar for like twenty minutes because I was like the
magnitude of this moment. I just hit the start and
it sounded exactly like I thought it was gonna sound

(01:42:07):
a bit better. It was like, um, it was just
such a crazy thing to hear this thing that you
love so much just defined so much of what you do,
Like play this thing back that that was. That's a
great record, man. I just I just wanted to thank
you for that. That record. Really it really resonated with
me and it got me through just that time of
my life. I was I was running that ship, not stop.

(01:42:29):
Thank you. Okay, I know we got minutes left and
we didn't even get to your oscar. So I will
just I will basically that did happen, right, Yeah, I
will basically try to figure out how to wrap this up.
So by this point of course, now the world is
coming to you. Work on my ship, work on my ship,
work on my ship, and you're getting bigger, bigger caliber

(01:42:52):
names working with you. Just in general, like when you
what is the criteria of what you need in order
to inspire you to work with someone, because I'm certain
that you might have had some nos. Yeah that weren't
just I don't have time to do it. But I
don't know that's a fit because I also knew that
producing people, it's also like babysitting them yearning like Jedi

(01:43:17):
mind tricks. So before you take on a client, like
for instance, uh you you do in the the Joan
record with Daga, like do you is there initial play
date period to see is it dinners first? To see
if you're the guy for the job or not? Or yeah,
you know, uh, well I knew her from from a
while before, and then I saw her blow the hell

(01:43:39):
up because I had worked while I was on our
label and she was on that first Chilling songs and
and that was just before she blew up. And then
I remember, you know, seeing all the milestones along the
way until she was like global domination and uh and
so yeah, she she had just finished the Tony Bennett
thing and I finally had like my first hit kind

(01:44:01):
of like uptown punkin. Uh. She was like, let's let's
mess around, and we just yeah, it's always like a
play date first, like let's see how we vibra. Let's
just do five days and see how it goes, and
and we had an instant rapport and um, and that's
how it always goes. Really, I mean, I'm kind of
still terrified, Like I don't really love working with big

(01:44:23):
people because the expectations, and I love working with new
artists because they're so excited and the joy of their
them being on their first voyage is so that's like
my fountain of youth almost, But I think also sometimes yeah,
and then sometimes it's probably because I'm like a coward
and I don't want like the fucking heads of the
labels like leaning down at me, like you better deliver

(01:44:44):
a hit. Like there's something about when the expectation is
is off. All my biggest stuff has really come in
my lowest period's kind of like amy, nobody was checking
for me. Then I had a couple of hits and
no one's checking me for again. Then I worked with
Bruno and and like just these kind of ups and downs,
you know, So I'm too like fucking sensitive to Depression

(01:45:07):
all that ship. But um, one of my I don't
know if you remember the Steve, but one of my
favorite moments in life. I think I don't know why,
but I'm I believe that me and Steve got to
witness Gaga listening to the Joe and in his completion,
Oh so we were all there were we are watching

(01:45:29):
the recording the episode of Quest Love Supreme and he
was like, yeah, okay, I's totally forgot that. Yeah, we
were kind of watching her, like she was kind of
dancing like nobody was watching. Obviously, she didn't know that
we were watching her. Behind the in studio Steve upstairs,

(01:45:49):
well they had they had covered most of the There's
a big glass window that looked into the control and
I didn't know it was you guys, because I also
Frank Ocean had been in a lot and he's like
very secretive, like everything's boarded up, so there was just
a sliver of glass that you could just kind of
see at the top. And she and Gaga was going
so crazy that night, I remember, and she was like
flipping her hair around. It was a blonde, so like

(01:46:11):
I remember Chappelle saying, like all we could see was
just some crazy white woman like like like whipping around
like a last last song and uh and yeah, and
that was trying to get the attention like yeah, y'all
see us in here, right And then when we realized
that she couldn't see us, but it's like a police station,
like yeah, I was like because Mark was there. Yeah,

(01:46:32):
I think I remember being and I think I was
in the room that night because I remember that dance.
This is yeah, this is definitely I know you have
to go, but I gotta ask this one last question.
And this is such an anti climate, so I want
to know how did you guys manage for it? And
I'm speaking of shallow um, how did you guys manage

(01:46:55):
to bypass the Oscar rule of no more than four
people writing a song? Because it's you why gotta and
uh Anthony yeah, and so it's fo yeah, it's for
but it is that is that is the rule you
can't have for as a rule. To so the rule

(01:47:16):
the rule, it has to be like an exception like
in order. When I saw those four names on the ballot,
then I instantly knew, oh, this is winning because they
they broke the rule for this, because even like other
situations where like in common song like he just had
to to you know, ryme Fest got a Grammy eventually,

(01:47:40):
I mean an oscar eventually because I saw it. So
there must be something that on the night only certain
people maybe get up or something right. Or maybe Ryan
Fest doesn't have an oscar. Maybe he doesn't maybe does know.
I've seen ri Fest. Grammy's right of course for Jesus
was but yeah, you're right, I think, yeah, the Oscars,

(01:48:01):
you can't have more than three writers on ye. They're
trying to change now. But I was like, damn, like
because when I looked at it, I was like, somebody's
going to get gagged here, and yeah, like who draws
the shortest store? But what was it like that night
to win that oscar? I mean it was so nuts.
I mean it was just there and I'm not gonna lie,

(01:48:22):
like it's always a little like people were telling us
in the right Carpet the whole time, like you know,
you're the shoeing and this thing, and it's like let
me just enjoy, like but let me be surprised whatever
it is, because then the only thing you have is disappointment,
like you don't know, you never know until they opened
that sucking elmbot was going to happen. Yes, yeah, exactly
so so so but at that moment when they said it,

(01:48:44):
and first Bradley and god I gave that incredible performance
before and I was just like a fan in the
audience like oh my god, um and then uh and
then they said it and we just got up and
it was actually kind of funny, like because at the
Golden Globes they had said that I was allowed to
give the speech, and I thought that was really sweet
and maybe they were like Gaga's might win the actress,
so she's gonna speak later. So so at the Golden Gloves,

(01:49:08):
like I was, you know, really nervous, but I wanted
to say and thank Bradley and be eloquent whatever. At
the at the Oscars, I was like, nobody wants to
hear us speak. This is Gaga's night, and I was
kind of the bad guy amongst Andrew and Anthony, who
are two of my closest friends. I was like, we
just gotta shut up, and and they're kind of like
what not, even like thanks mom. I was like, I
just don't think it's the night for that. So I

(01:49:29):
was like, all right, asshole. So we're on the way
and they read out the thing and they went and
Gaga goes up and she makes this beautiful speech and
then she just and Data and I went and then
she just looked at me, goes and Mark. So I'm like,
oh fuck, So I just say something really correct, like hey,
you can't thank yourself, so we would like to thank you,

(01:49:50):
but like I look like such a dick to my
friends are like, no one's gonna speak on TV, and
this just me all right, Um, but it was the
most magical night. And I just remember being like the
four of us feeling like such a crew like that
night and just like like just like running around and
fucking just feeling like it was wonderful. And then uh

(01:50:12):
and then everything else like that after that sucked. Once
we left the shrine or whatever that building was, it
wasn't it was dope. It was one of the dopest
party's I've ever been to. I was with it, I
was in a relationship, and I was a lot of
fighting and shouting and not. It wasn't the Late Night record.
Thank you for that record. Thank you for that record.

(01:50:32):
By the way, Um, Mark, I knew you gotta go um,
can we puck the Apple Show really quick? Yeah? I
was wondering when you actater on coverage, Uh, you know
where I interviewed, you know, cover stars. The Fader obviously
has a great track record of getting people right at
that moment just before they blow up and take over
the world. And you're still our most popular downloaded episode

(01:50:54):
from so far from that. Thank you for being on
And I love being people's first pilot episode of their podcast. Yeah,
thank you, And that was great. And and then I've
done this show which you're also in. Watch the Sound
for Apple Plus, which is a six part documentary serious
and sort of like how music is made, Like each

(01:51:15):
episode is a different subject. Distortion, reverb, synthesizes, drum machines,
auto tune, and samplers. So it's like everybody from yourself
to mccartne need a tamement, polity too Short, to the
BCS to premiere to while a tea pain talking about
these devices and why these devices gave them super powers,

(01:51:35):
that they didn't think that they knew how to be creative,
and lifting the veil of how this ship gets made
and just in a very like human and creative way.
So I've been working on that for the past year
and a half, so it's very exciting. Yes, dope content.
Thank you all. Secerity man you um uh an immense

(01:51:58):
fan of yours and it's really dope to see you
not even come up flourishing flourishing. Yes, yes, you you've
passed around. Is there anything that you've yet to do
that you want to do? I think that I just
still like sometimes when I come here and this start
to sit down to write something, like, I know I'm
still learning. I know I'm still getting better. I might

(01:52:19):
have my biggest records behind me for sure, but I
still feel like, oh yeah, I want to learn that
thing today and like or like I want to be
able to get back that feeling when I was on
my MPC whatever it is, so like I'll never there's
I think that's the thing that still drives me coming
here every day and being like I could still be better.
I'm not sure if there are milestone so to speak,
but just making music stuff. I don't know when I

(01:52:42):
was that the mic that you is that the mike
you track vocals on the seven B or is that
the one you use? No, this is just what I
use when I'm on a fancy podcast. This is what
do you know? What's your what's your kind of go
to in the studio. I like, I like anything, there's
a I like trying different shoot out. Sometimes there's just
like shitty stuff that's like Underdog Mike's or whatever. But

(01:53:05):
I mean the seventies seven that I sa is always incredible.
I mean that's uh the forty four, but the s
M seven is always great too. It's good enough for
Michael Ambano and fucking whatever. Yeah. Well, you know, I
can't wait to hear uh the results of set microphone
on on Yabba's record when it finally yeah's are you

(01:53:29):
doing that? Are you're doing? You're doing a whole yeah?
And and Jill Scott called me about that record. She
loves Yeah it's dope. Um. Mark, Well, we thank you
for coming on the show so much. So nice to
see meet you. Uh Steve, all right, all right, you

(01:53:53):
have a Mark Ronson and Fontigolo and yea and Sugar
Steve Quest sign off. Check out next time, Yo, what's up?
This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us
on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you
think and who should be next to sit down with us,
don't forget to subscribe for our podcast Hi Piece, m

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Laiya St. Clair

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