Musiq Soulchild

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of q LS.
What's Love Supreme? I mean it was What's Love with
the Day, of course. Ladies first, Yeah, Hello, Hey, it's

(00:20):
hell Nightam Brown. We got Sugar Steve, Sugar Steve. You
also got fine take a little. But I know y'all
can't see him right now, but fresh cut, Fine take
a little. Yeah, Man, I'm happy too. I'm happy to.

(00:40):
I don't know when I'm gona getting next, because the
numbers keep going up. But I'm gonna just hold on
this as long as I got shot man, and we
were doing good. I ting about to put it on
knock and Corona was doing good. We was holding we
was doing I and then it just this ship just
all helping the cell racially. No, you can't celebrate too early, Bill,

(01:03):
how's it going fantastic? Now here's the Hamptons with the children.
That's good. I will say that, you know, especially based
on the the buzz of the Jill Scott episode, that
these Philadelphia conversations couldn't have come at a better time.
There's only a matter of time before we dip back

(01:23):
into the pool of of neo genius for another go around,
and our guest today. He burst upon the scene back
in two thousand, probably with the most unlikeliest, charmingest platonic
black anthem of all time. And the HiT's kept rolling

(01:46):
and rolling. Uh nine or ten albums deep? I believe
it's nine albums deep, thirteen Grammy nominations, and I gotta
stay okay. This this is the college where the drop
of the day probably the man that has done the
most for Manda Green spelling. Yeah, oh that's what that's called.
It's called Monda Green. Yes, it's based on a poem.

(02:09):
I forget to get a person to the poem. But
when you when you spell and jumple words together, so
Monda Green. Kingley's gentlemen, please welcome to Quest Love Supreme Music.
Soul Soul Child. What's up? Brother? You were you right now?

(02:34):
I'm in the A'm in Atlanta. How long have you
been in Atlanta? When? When did you leave us? When
did you leave Philly? I left, y'all? You said it right,
So I love you up. I know when I was there,
allowing to both of y'all. You don't even claim Philly, Yeah,

(02:56):
you claim everywhere but Philly. That's not true. I claim
phil Do you claim Philly music? I claimed Philly when
it's appropriate. I claim really when it's appropriate, because it's true,
it's part of my timeline. Is not anything that I
can get away from or or even want to get
away from. However, it's very real that I left for

(03:18):
a lot of reasons. You know, I love my people,
but my people ain't all the way all the way together.
Philadelphia is not necessarily the you know, has a timeline
of mental health. Um. And I just thought the property
value was better in Atlanta. I'm I'm about to learn

(03:39):
a lesson. Okay, you know what I'm saying. Well, I
can only speak for my timeline. I can't speak for
the whole city. I can only speak for my timeline,
my immediate circle. What was happening in my world and
what infiltrated my world, you know what I'm saying. Um, So,
according to that, I had to make decisions that I
thought was better for me, for my peace of mind
and my mental health and um. You know, but you

(04:00):
can't say that in interviews because they're like music, like, No,
that's not what's happening. It's just that I'm just being
honest with my reality, you know. And I had to
make sense of it, especially being thrusted into the music
business with no real guidance, no real backup, no real support,
no real nurturing, no real nothing. And I can figured

(04:20):
it out on my own, and then, you know, I
can't be bothered with people tracking me down and like
being on my doorstep like the you like, no, I
gotta go. I'm never home. That that was, you know,

(04:41):
everyone living in my house but me. So No, I
I understand that very much. So like sometimes you gotta go.
You know, I've been I've been in New York for
ten years now, and I'm only just getting comfortable with
letting Philly know that I do not live in Philly anymore.
Mm hmm. That's yeah. There's always this thing that you know,

(05:03):
this invisible you can't leave. Well, but I think it's
but I think it's a different thing for you, you
know what I'm saying, and and and your entire crew,
particularly you and and read. But it's y'all represented Philly,
you know what I'm saying. So I think it's it's

(05:23):
you'll have to be a little more cautious because people
associated Philly with y'all. People didn't necessarily associate Philly with me.
They knew I was from Philly, but that wasn't such.
It wasn't on your sleeve, wasn't on my sleeve. Y'all
put to sleeve, y'all, put Philly on y'all, y'all carried Philly.
You know what, I understand your position is different than mine.

(05:47):
Like I can slip away and be like, hey, ain't
you from Philly? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm from Philly,
you know. But then it's a different conversation where it's like, bro,
you are Philly. Where were you born? What part of
Philly was I was born in? I don't want to
say it in West Philadelphia. Wait, we're in West Philly.

(06:12):
I never knew that. I've known you for the longest,
and did I know you were West Philadelphia. That's another
conversation for another day. Uh, I'm here honestly love you
though I love you thought in Gerard that area. Yeah yeah,
And my people's actually didn't find out about So this

(06:33):
is about to be a rabbit hole. But I'm gonna
sent you up. That's what we're for. Then there's my
dad's side. You know what, I'm saying my mom's side
is actually from North Philly. Mom's side is from you know,
seventeen of Jefferson, nineteenth from Master Dolphins, Susquehanna, all of that.
My dad is also around from there and wood Stock

(06:54):
Alder in that area, which is funny how they met,
you know, because and they're both last names of Johnson.
Like anyway, Um, but my dad, Dad's side, you know,
he's from you know, as far as I know, he's
from Popular, you know, um around in that area. You know.
So I was actually raised when I was a kid

(07:16):
over near Girard in Popular, but like on fifty seconds.
But then as I got older, I started moving around
to my other family, my aunts and uncles and cousins
and them and all of that. That's why when people
asking what part of feeling you from, I can't necessarily
claim one part because I spent a substantial amount of
time in multiple places where I can't say that I'm

(07:37):
I'm strictly West Philly or strictly Soft or strictly North.
I can't say that because I spent way too much
time all over Philly, Germantown, nice Town like I spent Philly,
you know, all over the place. I am. I'm fifty
second of no stage. Hey, yeah, you go moving? Actually

(07:58):
did you? Did you? Did you know that? Um? It's
been re christened as Chestnut I'm sorry Walnut Hill gentrification.
Why why why? Why? I don't know. I uh I

(08:19):
did my uh my, my drive through the old spot.
I'll say that every June speaking on which big pick
up on doing the picnic with us. Um, so yeah,
thanks for thinking of me, Thank you for sure. I
know I'm just but I'm just saying that when we
were scouting looking when we were headed to do our

(08:40):
part of the picnic at the man. Uh, you know,
I do my usual two hour drive through the old
neighborhood for ghosts and whatnot. Yeah, and that's when I discovered.
I discovered, No, you look for ghosts Grandmos and you
want to see what's still standing and what's not standing.

(09:02):
Um yeah, well of course you know street was hit
badly by the riot. So this is the most dilapidated
I've ever seen that block in my in my fifty Yeah,
I saw it on instant. I was like, y'all just
gonna treat like that, bro, But yeah, I don't know,

(09:23):
it's for me though, I even I wasn't discouraged, only because,
like I mean, I have I have a personal dream
like I think my life cold dream is too pull
a Kenny gamble like refurbish it and and that thing.
So I think this is like Philly legacy. Well yeah, yeah,

(09:45):
I dream of I've always dreamt of that, and we've
actually had our first me Tarken, my manager Sean had
a kind of like our first conversation of now that
if anybody is would be perfect for that, it would
be y'allah out. So we're we're talking about our our

(10:05):
third phase. Now, what's our legacy? Um? So, well, it's
good to know that we we share a fifty two
street in common. Yeah, I still, I still. My stepdad
used to have a table there on on market. Yo,

(10:26):
listen ahead. You know it's only because you just said
a lot. You just said a whole lot. It's it's
only because I just recently all right. So as with
the speaking, I've been DJing a lot of Jackson's on
my um dormant DJ sets, and I'm trying to explain

(10:48):
to people that I feel as the thriller did so
much for the street vendor in a way that. I
never saw street vendors ever in my life until the phenomenon,
so like sold itself. It was like crack bro. Yeah,
and you know, there was just a point where I mean,

(11:11):
after Thriller, then it came like the bootleg tapes and
the oils and everything and the idea of to answer
your question, huh, I used to but now and he
didn't sell incenseive oils. He sold Michael Jackson stuff. No, no, lady,
So okay, that's along. But along with the you know,

(11:34):
the pirated you know, a couple of taps license and
he had that. He had blue and you gotta break
your table down because you know you're not all the
way legit because was crazy. It's a whole I've been

(11:58):
hustling since, been hustling, bro, hustle. That's right. You had
the name. Oh we don't we don't want to piss
Fonte off, So let's not have that conversation. We want
to talk about whatever. We didn't talk about it. Let's
do that was your shot. That was your she did listen,

(12:22):
just completely missed it, but it wasn't corrected towards you.
I was like a little love jab, you know. Yeah,
it was the Hustle. It was he had his record,
the Hustle. I was not a fan of the Hustle.
How I want to know why you want to what
I was a fan of that? I thought you would
have went harder on was the Purple Wonder. You could

(12:44):
have put that out his music one second? One second.
So we're confusing the whole chat right now. So let's right,
he plays one thing at all time. Okay, okay, you
want to know why you didn't with the Hustle. I mean,
I'm sure that it's mildly rhetorical because I know, I
know you know why you did it. But let me

(13:05):
tell you the other side why you did it. Okay,
all right, it's it's like you hating on the baby
for not knowing how to drive. Oh it was, but
the baby shouldn't be driving. Okay, okay, okay, okay, so
very spicy. The baby wants to drive. The baby doesn't understand,

(13:28):
it doesn't have the wherewithal to manage that machinery, but
the baby wants to drive. So what the baby did,
and if you can follow me, if you can find
what the baby did, was say, hey, can someone help
me learn how to drive? And everybody in their Mama
was like no, get the funk out of the car,

(13:50):
and all the professional drivers like yourself. Fante was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no no to their in their defense. So you
should have thing like that, like, fam, this is not
your space. You're not I'm not feeling this. You should
stick to what you're good at, right, But you can't
tell a creative person who has a natural motivation to

(14:14):
want to get into something else. I've been trying to
get into that and then moving to Atlanta and that's
all you here. So I wanted to try my hand
in it. Okay, I'll be the first one to tell
you it was trash, but I didn't know that it
was trash at the time because I really want to
do it, you know what I'm saying. And he's not
the only person that was like, no, I'm not feeling that.

(14:35):
A lot of people told me no, I'm not. That's
why you don't really hear about it that much because
I have since ceased and thisist. I'm a you know,
gather the data, and I'm a I'm a figure out
and if I can find a way how to represent it,
I'll represent it. Like for people to circle back to
you though, and no matter what, like you were allowed
to make if you want to call it a mistake.
And still people was like, but I foxed with him,

(14:56):
So yeah, I didn't take it. I didn't taking no
way in general. In the moment though, it was so
crushing because of how much I looked up to the
homie and in the moment I didn't think about it
in the way that I'm communicating it right now. I
looked at it as your fam Hayden. You know what
I'm saying. I thought we was boys, you know what

(15:17):
I'm saying, not realizing that in his own respective way,
it was like tough love, like, no, that's whack. But
with this, you know what I'm saying. But I was
in my emotional space that I was like, man, you
know what I'm so, that's all that was. I was
just kind of like, never spoke since then. This is so,

(15:38):
this is the first time we're actually even interacting with
each other to mentioned comments, you know, Yeah, this was
now this was the first time that like were like
like talk each other, like seeing each other since at all.
That's been years. Man, Like dinner like that was forever ago.
That it was like, what twelve thirteen something like that,

(16:01):
something like that, that was a minute ago. But yeah,
I mean, but yeah, the Hustle Records, I mean, I
didn't like them, but I understood, like you were saying, like,
you just have different outlets of yourself you want to express.
So also I didn't like but the Purple Wonderment I
heard that. I was like, dude, like you can just
put this out as music because that life and man,
that's gorgeous, like on are free like all that. I

(16:24):
was like, thank you, but this is it, I know.
But but the equivalent of people telling me to just
call the music, it's like saying, like you have another
kid and say, why don't you just call him the
same name you gave the other kids to you? You
felt like a difference, felt like a different thing would
damage you, felt like you would damage. You're not damage
the brand, but at least that the portal that was music.

(16:48):
I wanted to leave it alone. I didn't want to
confuse the narrative because I want to be creative, because
I had because you gotta remember, you gotta think about it, actually, right,
I ain't ad at that time. I was getting so
much pushback you know what I'm saying, and so much
feedback and so much ship. This is before social media
was really popping popping, you know what I'm saying. This

(17:08):
is just al radio. So these were my relationships with
people and promoters. These are my relationships with people that
I engage with for the bag. So I don't personally
care about what y'all think, but I have to professionally
care about what y'all think because it affects my my
bottom line. So to not be the dude that's like, man,

(17:29):
y'all don't know what y'all talking about, because you do.
It's literally your job, you know what I'm saying, So
I have to respect it to some degree. But at
the same time, I gotta stand on my own like
I gotta stand on my ship, like I gotta stand
there like I know what I'm talking about. At that time,
I've been added for about a good cool, you know
deck any change, So you need to tell me I

(17:50):
don't know what I'm talking about, so I didn't have
the wherewithal to figure that out. So just to answer
your question, so yeah, there is some element of Okay,
I'm not been gonna mess with what's already established. You
know what I'm saying, I'm just gonna focus on trying
to which I wasn't really there yet because I was
really on something. I don't want to do this no
more because so I had to work through that and

(18:12):
that took me years, you know what I'm saying. But
in the meantime, since I'm in Atlanta, I'm being constantly
influenced by the sound of Atlanta, which was that turned up,
you know, trappy whatever, whatever, And people kept asking me like, yo,
what you think about this? What you think as if
to say, but like bathing me for confirmation that I'm
supposed to say, Yeah, that's trash. These kids shouldn't be

(18:33):
doing that. That's not real music. Why they use an
auto tune like that? But I was like, no, not
only am I not gonna not do that, I'm actually
doubled down, and as a show of solidarity, I'm gonna
try my hand in it because I can't speak on
something that I don't do. So I said, let me
go ahead and do it. You know, now, I had
a whole lot of things working against me, because one,

(18:54):
I couldn't talk the same talk that they talked because
I don't I don't walk that wall. I don't live
that life. So but you have. But I have lived
the left and and that's where the name hustle comes from,
because regardless of what you're doing, you're on your hustle.
It's a hustle one way or another. So I had
that and said, Okay, not to say that I'm on

(19:15):
the streets, you know, you know, with freaking work and whatever, like,
that's not what I'm saying. That's a grind, bro. So
I'm gonna talk about that, but I'm gonna talk about
it from a from a general perspective. Whatever you about,
you have to have this mindset. Literally. Did I realized
is that I was actually self therapeutizing myself. I was

(19:39):
I was actually talking myself out of the rut that
I was in, and the same thing with Purple that
was keeping me in because that many times I wanted
to turn up on folks because I was that I
was very I had no filter. I was very short tempered,
like I was snapping off like in my shows, and
my my m d be like yos, like man, it's

(20:00):
like it's not I'm cussing out my fans, Like this
ship is frustrating, Bro, These people don't know what they
want and I'm giving them what they're asking for and
they're not satisfied. So what did you do all of this?
When did you start to feel like your fans weren't
satisfied with your output? Again? Again, again, it was it
was a misunderstanding. You know what I'm saying. When you

(20:21):
do stuff long enough, I'm sure that you know each
of you can attest to it, particularly you know, uh
questions trant take when you do stuff along long enough,
stuff just changes, bro, It just changes. The people that
show up, changes their palette, changes their expectation changes. It
just is what it is, man. And there's people that's

(20:42):
in that crowd that what they're not your day ones.
They literally just got here. But that doesn't make them
any less of a support of a fan. And that's
that's a vibra though. That's the il part about this.
It is looking at it from the outside and because
you're on the inside of yourself. But that's a don't
like that and still being able to know. But now,

(21:03):
when when you add to it that you you personally
feel me talking about me. Now, when you personally feel
that you haven't even gotten started yet, because everything you've
done was request based and you were just living up
to it because you just wanted to stay in the
game and get to the bread and you didn't want
nobody to not not include you because you didn't want
to do that thing. You didn't want to do that
no one else wanted to do. But you wanted to

(21:24):
do it though, because you wanted to get put on,
because you just wanted to feel accepted. Can we please
talk about these beginnings like now I've gotta, we gotta,
can we get I know we're about to get into it,
but the beginnings like no, this is, this is you
know what's gonna go? Like this? So well, I was

(21:46):
gonna ask you, so I remember the last conversation we had,
it was, I mean, this is a minute ago, but
I commended you. And I was even talking to my
wife the other night about when I told him he
was having to have me on the show, about how
you're always one of the people that I admired because
you were able to play the major label game. You
know what I'm saying, Like you were and you know

(22:08):
what I mean, it's straight and you always one of
those dudes that I admired because I'm like, you know
what music like, he's on the label and I'm sure
he got his shiitty go with, but every album he
comes with his jams, like he's consistent. He keep a
jam on the radio and even just his radio jam.
But then he still got his album cuts to be
hard too. So to me, you were an example of

(22:30):
someone and an artist in you know, quotation marks, you
know what I'm saying that was actually playing the major
label game. Yeah, you could navigate it. So what when
was the point where it started to turn like Okay,
I'm playing the game, but now I'm feeling like this
ship is starting to play me because the other shop
never dropped and what was the other shoe me being

(22:52):
able to do what I want so to speak, and
not one Because you can do whatever you want whenever
you want to do it. It's it just hits the
when you do what you want and it's being supported. Okay,
educate me because right now I'm a blank slate on
the last twenty minutes of conversation. So break it down
to me like a kindergarten. So when you're in a

(23:14):
creative space, which I would assume it starts with the song.
I'm just starting. We're starting with you. I'm with you,
I'm with you. Let's start with the song. Who or
what was or who was the inner circle of support?
Then that would metaphorically block down a shot or say no,

(23:41):
I don't think you should go this direction or do
it that way? Like was it a was it a
was it a circle of producers? Was it whoever your
manager was? Or just like you're doing a show or
maybe it's only seventy full, or like what what? What's

(24:01):
the process that lead you to the beginning of where
you're talking about. You're not being able to express yourself.
Here's what's interesting. You can't imagine how complex that question is.
You cannot imagine how complex that question is. And I
will do my very best to uh be PC, non PC,
thank you, thank you. I'm not trying to be PC.

(24:25):
I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying to not be long winded.
Questions will be short. You best, you're just dislimer as.

(24:47):
Go ahead and say I'm gonna say this about me.
I have lecture esque answers go in, So all right, said,
I can say whatever I want, whatever I want, I

(25:07):
can say whatever I want to say whatever you want.
So to answer your question, we have to start from
the beginning. Yes, let's do it. Thank you, that's what
I wanted you to do. Please, I like, I like,
how excited y'all are ye, because some of us know
a little bit of your story, so I'm like, this
is this is how we are. Of course you would

(25:29):
because you were actually part of my story. So yeah, yeah,
I mean no, the one above a mere well to me,
no ship, all right, I hope it's a good part,
always parted the good part. What do you make a
good part too? I know I'm playing the only one

(25:53):
that was the bad part was away. It wasn't even
bad making it better, So it wasn't even bad. It
wasn't even bad. So let's start from the beginning. I'm
gonna get I promise you. It's it's it's relevant. Just

(26:17):
let me start from the beginning. So my my home
life was shipped. You know what I'm saying. I didn't
get along with my parents at all for a lot
of reasons that's very unnecessarily get into at this point
in time. But we didn't see at all. I didn't
understand how detached we were at the time, it was

(26:38):
just instinctive, like I just was like, I need to
get the funk out of this house here. You an
only child, you have siblings or anything? Oh no, I'm
the oldest of nine. Oh wow, Okay, yeah, so there's
a whole dynamic with that that I'm like, these ain't
my kids, So that we're not gonna get into that.

(26:59):
I brought that up to say that I wilfully left
the crib, which left me with nothing. So you have
to understand I've been sheltered most of my life. Okay,
there was a cult element that's associated with that. Again,
unnecessary right now. Um, So I didn't want to be

(27:19):
associated with nothing that came from that space at all.
But at the same time, I didn't have the luxury
of building a relationship with anyone outside of my immediate life.
You know what I'm saying. Like, for instance, you know
you said to think about the thing with the words,
the collegiate word that you used or whatever. There was
no way of me knowing that because I never got

(27:39):
to college. I never even feelish high school, went the
unit for one year, didn't even pass freshman year, that's
first year. Yeah, and it's because I didn't do the
work because I thought school was dumb. But you know,
disenfranchised community, poverty, marginalized education. Da da da da da dada.
So I'm like, okay, well what do I do with

(28:01):
the rest of my life? My stepdad said, well, you're
not gonna just be at the crib. I'm gonna put
you to work. Here comes in fifty market. So I'm
learning about life in traffic commerce. You know what I'm saying.
That was the beginning of the hustle. So then fast forward.
You know, I started making a little bread. You know,

(28:23):
I'm working fast food joints. You know, somebody you know
did me a solid a week before my eighteen birthday,
gave me a gig like techning me. I'm not supposed
to hide in seventeen year olds, but you know you're
about to be eighteen in a week or so. You
know the process that's gonna take the process of information
any might as well start today. I'm not gonna tell
on who that was because you know, well the business
not even up anymore, so it doesn't even matter again, irrelevant.

(28:46):
So I started working. I made that point to say
I started making money. I started making money. I started
moving around. I started moving around. I started going to places.
One of my favorite place was sixty nine Street. I
used to go to sixty nine Street to go watch
movies that United Artists Movie Theater. And whenever that my
movie didn't start yet, I will go to the Coconuts
record store right next door to it, which is where
I met my manager. Okay, still current. Well, I didn't

(29:13):
want my manager at the time, and I met and
I met him through the people that were working there.
You know what I'm saying, because you know, we would
go over I would go over there, and because they
were working at the store, a music store. I you know,
it was obviously into music and we were just you know,
shooting shoot about music. You know, people that came out.
What you think about this and when you think about that, Yo,

(29:33):
this group is cool. And it's around the time Brian
McKnight was popped in once we was popping uh that
that whole area ninety seven year. I'm just saying, just
to place the time, just time, That's all I'm doing.
You know what I'm saying. Oh you mean like no, no, no, okay,
because say beautiful thing, I got you, Okay. Yeah, so

(29:54):
you know we're talking. We're talking. Then they collectively said, Yo,
you should meet our manager, the manager of the store.
He's you know, he was moving around because he managed
multiple stores. I forget what his actual title was, but
he was in and out basically because the one of
the dudes that was it was actually the manager of
the store, but he was the manager of that region.
I guess, you know, the multiple stories of the whatever.

(30:17):
So so then he's like, okay, cool. So I finally
meet him, and then he's like, okay, cool, you need
to meet my partner who was working for Universal I
think at the time. And they I guess both of
them collectively decided. You know, you gotta understand, like I'm
I'm speculating because I wasn't part of those conversations. But

(30:38):
if you put it together, like obviously this is what happened,
they said, Yo, we got a situation where we can
help this dude out here it is and enter a
Touch of Jazz Studios. I started working at a Touch
of Jazz Studios, you know what I'm saying. Actually I
came in as a background singer on a song for
UM for another group. It was a duo UM. I

(31:02):
will see, I will say their name, please their name,
because I got nothing but love for them girls. Man,
I got nothing but love for them girls. Bro to
this day. We haven't talked and connected in a while,
but I have nothing but love for them. But cool,
that's what's up. And I need to find a way
to reconnect with them. But um, can you extinguish this

(31:24):
this rumor? So where you homeless? Are not? At the time?
So when I took the part when I said I
left the crib, Yeah, okay, so you were home, I
was definitely homeless, well homeless by technicality being of no home. However,
you know, I depended on the condition of nomadic. I
was nomadic. I'm saying that from now one. That's where

(31:46):
I don't feel bad because he didn't go to college either.
I don't he's used the word no. No, I don't
feel bad about it. I don't feel bad about it.
I just think that it's an important piece of detail
to help understand who you know. Yeah, and I think
that a lot of people don't take it into consideration.
Put in their defense, I don't really like talk about
it like that either, you know what I'm saying. So

(32:06):
it's very easy for people to perceive me as, oh,
you're that guy. He's like, no, I'm actually a person,
you know, But I apologize for It's okay you No
at Black Lily always knew just the pizza guy, I know,
which is one of the jobs that I had. So
just so as it was so eloquently written in his

(32:27):
uh like that, it was just like alright, so but ho,
so before we continue, you have no idea the navigation
that I had to do to show up to those events.
Example exactly, I wonder what I there. Oh no, no, no,

(32:55):
I used to It was my crive. Yeah, I'll be
calling police staring all right, can I get these people
on my own? I mean, now that everything worked out,
I'll be like, yeah, department shows up, yall beat and free,
you know, I call the cops. I'm like, yo, get

(33:16):
these thugs out my crib. Now. They were they were
some real ones, bro. They were burning beats out on
the rug. They was. They were some real ones, bro.
You know what I'm saying. So I'm gonna get back
to the you know, the timeline. But just at the time,
you know, you have you have Black Lily, you have
Wilhelmina's you have words and sounds you know, we have

(33:40):
multiple others offshoots and whatever, and I would guess how
my day would go. Okay, So I would be at
whatever job at the time. It could have been Burger King, McDonald's,
Boston Market, the piece of joints, you know what I'm saying,
which um Roshi comments saw me there because I saw

(34:01):
him about to get in the cabin. I ran. I
was like, yo, coment he saw me, he saw me
standing outside. I don't think he made connection. And I
was like, yo, he was you know, hit me with it.
You know. I was like, okay, sure he saw me
still doing that? That was you know, that day was lit.
I was like, that made my day. He's the home
you know what I'm saying. And whenever I would get
discoveraged of like whether we're what what will it ever

(34:21):
happen for me? You know what I'm saying, stuff like
that would happen and I'd be like, oh, okay, so
I must be on the right track if he's part
of my day. Okay. Cool anyway, So I would work
a job and whatever bread that I would get or
whatever I would have to but I would have to
wait till the weekend because I had a home girl

(34:42):
that I was rolling with that would get tipps because
she would work at the hard Shell Cafe. I don't
know what it's probably the hard Rock Cafe now downtown.
I don't know what it's called market. Yeah, that used
to call it the hard Shell Cafe. And he used
to used to sell um um seafood and stuff, and
she would get tips every day. This is around the
time when when I Lost Ones came out and I
remember because I was like, Yo, girl, you gotta listen, Yo,

(35:04):
you gotta listen to this record because she was kind
of doing this whole poet thing. I was like, dude,
you gotta list to this record. You know, it's funny
how money. I was like, Yo, this is a genius Asians.
I didn't know it was so many Asians, you know
what I'm saying. Anyway, she would make tips every day
and if she could get like fifty dollars that day,

(35:26):
she could work a fifty dollars that day. We were both,
you know, bust down on the room because she ain't
had nowhere to stay. Oh wow, somewhere in the downtown there.
We would pick one whicheveryone had a vacancy because at
the time. I don't know if it's like that now.
They were places that would sell off rooms for at
night down okay, So and it got kind of sketchy

(35:47):
because you know, it's a very interesting name, so you
know what I'm saying. But you know, but she was
about that life. But you know, I had to use
whatever because I was a very resourceful dude, and we
was cool. So she got a room and you know,
and I would be like you good, you said, okay, cool,
I'm about to run down to the to the Yami.

(36:09):
And this was like weekly. You know what I'm saying.
I wouldn't tell no about it. I was, you know, nomadic. Uh,
but I would just show up. You know what I'm saying, people, Oh,
there you go where you've been? I'm like, not nothing,
I'm here, now let's go. You know what I'm saying? Um,
oh fire, And I said, Willelmina's you know with with
uh Jeff Bradshaw. You know what I'm saying, Oh boy

(36:29):
with the trumpet. Um no Jaffar, Yeah Jafar play trumpet
and and uh Jeff played trumball shouts out to them.
So that that was I was just saying that to say,
like my daily life and trying to show up to
all of those spaces. You know what I'm saying, was interesting,
But anyway, that's part of the timeline as well. So
fast forward to me recording all through right, I'm recording

(36:53):
all of these songs, none of these songs. Who you
can't fast forward because what was the moment from um
this everyday existence of finding a place to live in
all those things? Two? Finding your voice? Yeah, finding a
voice in singing. And I'm trying to answer that question.

(37:14):
Ok I'm trying to I'm trying to answer the question.
This is the thing that a lot of people do.
They try to rationalize the timeline when I when I
tell it to them, because they're like, this doesn't make
any sense. It doesn't, but it happened. Okay, So I

(37:35):
haven't recorded in the studio prior to them. Okay. It
was just one time somebody introduced me to their dad
crib and he had a console in his living room
and the closet was the booth. You know what I'm
saying that we did like one song that I cannot
ever remember with that song, but you had sang before
That's the question I think I was trying to say,
like you had known that you can always sang? What

(37:58):
do you mean a whole like my whole life. I remember,
for instance, okay, let's go back. I remember I went
to Heston Elementary and our graduation song was Man in
the Mirror. They had a question that was supposed to
sing the lead. He wasn't singing it right. I kept
correcting him, like, no, it doesn't go like that. You
gotta sing it like this. And my teacher was like,

(38:18):
you're the one that sing. I always could sing. But
I thought that it was something that everybody could do.
You can ride a bike. I can ride a bike. Here,
you can ride a bike. I climb a tree. You
can climb a tree. I could backflip. You could backflip.
I could sing, you could sing. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't.

(38:39):
I didn't understand. I didn't understand that. It didn't quite
work like that when you figure that out, when you
figure it out out, it didn't work like when when
people when you heard it back like I guess, I
guess we all we are all not the same, you
know what I'm saying. And I was always support if

(39:00):
like yeah, you know, no, I just keep going I'm sure,
you know, I know, you know. And then I started
getting with different squads and crews that would go to
you know, creative and performing art schools. You know. I
would hang out with the church kids. I wasn't raised
in the church, you know what I'm saying, but I
hung around a lot of church kids. I hope the
p k's it would tell them about the experiences. I'm like, wow,

(39:21):
that's interesting, Like don't you just leave? And it's like,
it doesn't. It doesn't, It doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't
work like that. It doesn't. It doesn't work like that,
because you know, I'm like I left, you know, you know,
I don't work like that. So I learned how to
sing through being around singers, being around musicians, Like I

(39:42):
would go to jazz clubs. You know what I'm saying.
This is around the time where I met Bloud. You
know what I'm saying. I would go to the fun Fact.
I wanted to be in the group, and somebody suggested
Blood and somebody gave me his phone number and I
called him, call them cold call him yeah, And I
was like, asked him about it if he remembers, and

(40:02):
I was like, you know, Hey, you know, what's up
a music? And he asked me one of the most
obscure questions ever, something like I'm paraphrasing, you would have
to ask him for the details. But it hit me.
I was on the phone like the fun and it
was something like who was the first person that to

(40:24):
call music music? It was like, yeah, why is you
coming at me like this like in the group or no,

(40:46):
super sis serious? You know, and he would help dad,
so you know, later on, you know, we eventually started
to get to know each other. He invited me to
his crib. I would have invited him to mind if
I had one. But I met his mom, I met
his brother. I think I'm at his mem No it
was I ain't meet his brother at the time, No,
I didn't. I thought it was his brother, but it
was just a dude that he went to school with

(41:07):
that played trumpet or trump bone or whatever. And so
I met his crib and he was like, he sat down,
he was like, okay, go ahead, I think something. I
was like, I didn't know that this was an audition,

(41:27):
but whatever, So I'm like okay, uh And and this
is the time where I had a whole lot of hair,
but you know, I didn't like have it like whatever,
so I just you know, we have a whole lot
of hair. You just stuff it in the hat, you
know what I'm saying. He was like, take take your
hat off. I was like, the fuck this, that's nickering.

(41:56):
What the hell my hat gotta be being on? Gotta
do with the way that I sound, bro? And it's
like I never thought about this since then until just now.
So you know, I'm like, okay, whatever, I take my
hat off. So now I'm awkward and uncomfortable because I have,
you know, insecurity issues and self esteem issues because I
come from a fucked up, non nurturing, neglectful background. But

(42:19):
he doesn't know that I'm triggering and trauma traumatized. But
you know, I want this dude to be part of
my group, so I'm gonna do whatever he says. Plus
I'm in his house, his mom's is cool. I'm I'm
I'm gonna take my hat off, you know what I'm saying.
He all like, and plus you know, he looked like
a super like clean cut jazz guy, you know. So
I'm like, I'm not going to disrespect his dude in

(42:40):
his own home, bro, So okay, so I think I
sug up Brian McKnight's song or whatever, and I think
his reaction was like, Okay, all right, and I think
he made reference to the fact that I did a
whole bunch of runs and stuff or whatever. Uh. And
that was that. And then I probably saw like maybe
once or twice since then or whatever. Mhm. But not

(43:04):
too long after that, I heard I was looking for
him and somebody was like, yo, he moved to New York.
You know what I'm saying. I'm like, damn, Like, so
now you know, I never got my chance to like
put the group together or whatever. So that's kind of
the next time I saw him. The dude have four
four ahead of locks. You know what I'm saying. He
was looking like a nomad. You know what I'm saying,
Totally different than how I met him, you know what

(43:27):
I'm saying. And you know, he's just he looked way
more relaxed, you know what I'm saying. I was like, Oh,
that dude probably found his his his ship and what
you think about me? Okay, one question the group that
you were trying to form in your mind, what was
the level group you were trying to performance? It? Like
modern R and B group, like I didn't. I didn't know,

(43:49):
well obviously that because that's what I was inspired by,
But ultimately it would have been something in the realm
of hip hop soul, you know what I'm saying. And
I wanted all three of us to be independent dope.
I didn't want it to be a thing where all
three of us, you know, one of us was dope
and then the carrying the other two kind of situation. No,
this is nobody if that's your dynamic in your group,
you know, saying situation. But I was heavily inspired by

(44:12):
one twelve because to me, they were all leads, you
know what I'm saying. So I was like, it would
be dope to be in a group where but I'm
not gonna do it four people, but you can't do
just too, So let's do three. That's in a nice, cool,
easy number, you know what I'm saying. So nobody could
direct me to, nobody that was interested or even you know,
able to. But some everybody kept saying, yo, blah bla

(44:34):
lah bla, lah blahlah blah blah, And I'm like, okay, cool,
you know what I'm saying. It's just like nineties, six
ninety seven, something like that. I'm so glad that didn't happen.
You known as a fan, you don't even understand. We
got so much more music, y'all being a part. Thank you. Yeah,
you know what I'm saying, which is why I'm grate
for that to happen. So again, me seeing him coming
back from from New York, because apparently he was he

(44:56):
was he was going to university for that, going to
school for that, I was like, Damn, I probably should
have stayed in school because if I stayed in school,
I probably would have been I probably would have had
a better chance at being better educated in music. And
out of that, I was supposed to go to Overbrook,
but because where I was living, I wasn't eligible to
go to Overbrook, so they sent me to you know,

(45:19):
this other school. So I'm sure if I would have
went to Overbrook, Hi, then I would have I probably
would have kept up with it Overbrook. Will Smith's sorry,
I'm just explained to our listeners right now. Yeah, um,
we were at a touch of Jazz and we didn't
even get Yeah, yeah we we We're coming back to that.

(45:40):
So while I'm being a nomad so to speak. Um,
I'm I'm I'm I'm finding myself in all of these
weird spaces of you know, feeling inadequate, not feeling good enough,
not knowing what I'm doing, not having the support, not
having nobody to guide me, help me, teach me, you
know I'm saying. But at the same time, I'm constantly

(46:02):
being inspired by everybody around. You know what I'm saying.
There's Bloud, There's Jill, There's There's there's now, there's flower Tree.
You know what I'm saying, all the way from freaking Europe.
Know what I'm saying. Um uh, there's there's the Jaguar
right Ken you the family Soul, There's you know what
I'm saying, Glenn Lewis from Canada. There's there's there's there's

(46:24):
you guys. You know what I'm saying Like I've been
I've been doing you guys since since nine. You know
what I'm saying, Like, like what if nobody is saying,
who is these people? You know what I'm saying. And
this is when I was really getting into hip hop
because I never really got into hip hop because I
never could completely identify with the with the aggression. You

(46:45):
know what I'm saying, right, no, but it's the reason why.
The reason why, it's because I get that every day,
Like I don't want to hear that and music that
I'm trying to like you know, so when so when
you know I'm hearing you know, recover real live drums,

(47:08):
I'm like, this is amazing. I've never heard this before.
I mean, yeah it was tried. Yeah there was daylight. Yeah,
but we're talking about Philly now, like and they write
down the street like this. It hits different, you know
what I'm saying. So, and that's around the time where
I got up with my with my dad's family popular.

(47:31):
So I was going through it, bro, I was that's
a whole another stories, like my whole life. And he
decided to tell me today, Okay, into in the book.
It's gonna be a book. There's a book. You write
a book, you're gonna have to your one day. No, No,

(47:53):
what are you saying right because you because like it
would happen series, It would have to be a series, bro,
And I just ain't got that kind of time right now. Um,
maybe later at some point, you know, if the universe
allows it, it'll happen. Um, music gonna tell me. Okay,

(48:13):
so all of this, in all of these compromising, unstable spaces,
I'm still looking for who Who am I? So I
begin recording still having found that out, which is why
I said this request base because back to Touch of Jazz,
I got called in as a, uh, you know, to
sing background and ultimately started recording songs because the person

(48:36):
that I was working with was like, Yo, you're a dope.
Uh we should do something about that. So now, and
who was that you were working Was it a producer?
Was producer? It was? It was the engineer at the time,
you know what I'm saying, because he would get the
off hours, you know what I'm saying. So he would
get the off hours and he could do whatever he
wants long as you locked up, you know what I'm saying.

(48:58):
And who was that? Who was that car? Been? Hagan's
his name is, And he was like, yo, I gotta
I got a producer. Uh you know who got beats?
You know what I'm saying. If you want to start
working on some ship, you know what I'm saying, then
you know we can get into that. And so Carbon said,
you know, I have this producer that you know, got
these beats or whatever. So now by then I'm already
back and forth between Philly and Atlanta. So everybody, you know,

(49:20):
I don't understand, like I didn't just decide Atlanta, you know,
out of a pick of a hat, like I already
have a relationship with the city, you know what I'm saying.
So when they came time to think about where am
I gonna go, well, I know people in Atlanta, and
let me just start there. So that's how that move was.
That place was decided. If it was l A would
have been l A, for which it would have been Chicago.

(49:40):
If it was New York, it would have been New York.
But yeah, OK, yeah, I have That's why. That's why
I said that, you know what I'm saying. So you
know he would be asking, you know, why Atlanta because
I got people in Atlanta, you know. And I'm bringing
it up to say I was back and forth and
I would take Greyhound because I've never gown before. Yeah,

(50:03):
I know, I know, I understand, how how, how, how
how infinitely dangerous that trip was. I couldn't have imagined,
you know what I'm saying. The bus like more than
tuesdays exactly, and the time that I was going. Was
I had to go, and I had to go in
the peak hours because you know, I had no bread,
so I had to go. I would leave at night

(50:27):
and I would get to Atlanta in the morning. Yeah.
Is it called the red Eye on a bus then? Really?
So you and make it moves to Georgia. Even when
making Mama, Mama want to sing, I just want to

(50:48):
say I wanted that was a praise Mama want to
I just want to sing. Sorry, Yeah, exactly exactly, And
it's a funny uh reason reasoning behind that the name
that name. I just want to say, um, but um,
it's not really that funny anyway, it's really um. So Yes,

(51:10):
I'm back and forth. I'm saying that to say because
the recording process of what ultimately became, I just want
to sing what's during me commuting back and forth, you
know what I'm saying between Philly and Atlanta because I'm
trying to figure my life out. I don't I don't
know where to stay. Like you know, It's one time
I was doing the open mic, you know, situation, and

(51:31):
there was some some college kids that was kind of
like running the situation and I was there and they
they was like, Yo, so what you're about to do now?
And I'm like, I don't know, bro, I'm just trying
to figure out where where I'm living, you know what
I'm saying, Just trying to figure that out. They're like,
what would you mean figure out where you're living? Oh? Yeah,
I don't have a place to stay. So you know,
I'm just I gotta figure it out because I had
was I had just was living with somebody and his

(51:52):
mom was paying his rent. But then she was like, yo,
this your last month, so you gonna live with me,
but your friend, all your little friends, they're gonna have
to like figure that out, you know what I'm saying.
So he hit me with that, and I was like, wow,
now here's this interesting. They lived on forty four and
Pine exactly College area, blah blah. The people that I

(52:17):
did the open mic with they lived on and what
was that old sage? I think, well, what was it?
It was? It was m what's the next block over
from Pine Locus locas Spruce? No, you're right, Spruce, my bad,
my bad, spruce, spruce, sruce, spruce, literally on the same block.

(52:38):
You just bust the corner and walk up and I'm
like y'all can't live here. I've been living here this
whole year and I've never seen y'all what you mean, like, yeah,
we live right here. So I essentially didn't have to
move anywhere. I just went around the block. So it's
like a lot of little things like that that's happened
in my life that I'd be like, I don't know
what that is. I didn't I didn't do that, you

(52:58):
know what I'm saying. And that's where I get my
sense of you know, faith, if you will, from, because
my spirituality is already it was it was, it was
my sense of spirituality was tainted basically, So God, God,
who and what is that? Now? Open up another thing?
Were you assuming your Philly? It's damn near impossible to

(53:21):
live in Philly and not at least have like twelve
like Muslim relatives like deep and were you did you
start in a Muslim community or like a Southern Baptist?
Very much Muslim? You got a Muslim name, very much Muslim,
but not I don't think it's the Muslim that people

(53:42):
identify with. Yeah, it was a different Muslim. Actually that
Muslim had beef with the Muslims that people identified with
I was gonna say the ones that I know is
like Tariq's family, which is more like Junior Black Mamfia
is esque. Yeah, I wasn't a different What was your
what was your set? Fam? I really don't want to

(54:05):
have that conversation. Never mind. The reason why I don't
want to have that conversation is I know, for a
certainty you don't have enough time for that. Wow, that's
a yeah. I know for a certainty you don't have
enough time for that. And because of the cult that

(54:26):
I was raised in, my my perspective of spirituality is
literally all over the place. You know what I'm saying, Um,
I had to start hacking people's sense of spirituality. The
reason I'm bringing that up is because you know, you
get lost in this, in this navigational process of emotions
and creativity being an impact, and you feel everything, but
everybody looks at you like a weirdo when the things

(54:48):
that are real to you are non existent to everybody else,
you know what I'm saying, and not knowing how to
articulate that in a way that doesn't make you look
like somebody you can check on him, you know what
I'm saying. So I'm having to have get through that,
and you know, I've had to reconcile a lot of
relationships with people because they just clearly didn't understand what
was happening. And there was no way that I can

(55:08):
make that make sense because I'm dealing with it. I'm
literally in the middle of it. So I can't help
you right now. If you see something that you can
help once you're reaching and pull me out. But as
of right now, like this is just gonna be weird,
you know what I'm saying, until I can find the
words and I'll see you in the traffic and be
like yo at that time when uh, yeah, that was crazy, right,
I didn't mean that, but what I actually meant was

(55:30):
you know, but you know, I'm literally going back to
like this old conversation and our interactions are just being
like man, I wish yeah, man, reference, contexts, context is everything,
just so here's the context. So I'm working at this
uh this studio off and on, back and forth from
Philly to Atlantum, and I'm literally working on songs that
are just coming up now. For for you know, Carving,

(55:55):
they may have been ideas that, but for me, it's like, oh,
sounds cool. Okay, what can I do with this? Okay?
Uh here, yoh that's dope cool. I'm glad you like that.
What else you got? You know what I'm saying. So
when people are like, yo, your first album, you know,
I know, your first album. How do you feel about
having your first album? That was my first album, that
was Carvin's first album, that was my thesis, that was

(56:17):
my that something I was just working on. You know,
nothing to take nothing away from it, but you know,
I gotta be mindful of how I talk about it
because people get offended. They're like my dagger over this life.
I don't know many artists that hold their first two

(56:38):
to three records near and dear. Now, Hey, why's this?
Why's this? What if that's your entire career and I
didn't know what that's your entire your first three albums?
No no, no, no no no. The way that he's

(56:59):
just said, I don't think anybody would. What if you
feel that way? End up feeling that way about everything
that you ever put out? Oh ships, now I feel
you because oftentimes world and pretend like it's the greatest
thing ever you And also because your album lyrically these

(57:20):
albums lyrically means so much to your fans, like and
don't get me wrong, I meant it, but that's me
doing what I did with it. Yes, thank you for
this conversation to this day. The only time that I've
ever done something out of my own mind. What was

(57:40):
my last album? And then feel the real even then
that I was no, no, no, no, no, let me
let me He was like, nigga, j don't get me wrong,
don't get me wrong. I have to say this because
it is true, and I I kind of want to

(58:00):
like kind of quell whatever kind of feelings of animosity
that some people may have for me. Right now. With
that said, I wouldn't release or do anything that I
don't have to have any kind of emotional connection too,
because then I can't perform it. Like y'all will sniff
that out, like we don't believe you. You need more
people bro do it better. You know what I'm saying.

(58:21):
So I gotta believe it to some degree. But when
you want to talk about authenticity and being genuine, like
I can't fully accept credit. I gotta give it to
the people who also were a part of it. That's
not me. That was the producer that's not me. That
was me, and the song writer that's not me. That
was the label. That was that was the management's idea.
I just went along with it. So when y'all would

(58:43):
give you me mine. As as far as playing the game,
oh it's a fucking game, but no one tells you
about the fallout. The fallout is you have a timeline
of yeah, yes, sir, no sir, yes sir no sa
yes no sir, yes sir. And as a grown ass man,
that ain't a legacy that you could be proud of.
I'm proud of the positive impact that what I've decided

(59:05):
to do ultimately, of how that ultimately affected people, I'm grateful.
I'm eternally grateful for that. I'm not ever gonna take
that away from people. You know what I'm saying, And
it's actually their reaction that made me have a connection
to it. I had their their relationships with the songs,
because on this side, it's hella traumatic. God. Wow, Now

(59:28):
I gotta ask, like, so what is it. I haven't
finishing what I'm saying earlier about the first three records,
like oftentimes you know, like uh, okay, when I when
I convinced people that a particular television shows dope, and
usually they'll tell me, man, I saw the first episode,
like the pilot, and I wasn't feeling it, and I

(59:50):
was like, yeah, I don't know most right, And people
get into there, I mean very rarely, maybe like Atlanta
and U the Sopranos, like, they're rarely shows whose first
episode is like that high Ward and with albums, yeah,
I mean I in my mind, I just assumed that

(01:00:12):
people just have an emotional sentimental connection to their college
years when they first discovered Do You Want More? World?
Like I know, I'm gonna live this life where my
first four records are gonna be the be all and
the end all to certain people. Oh man, yo man,

(01:00:34):
thanks to all apart, you know, an occasional phrenology to yo. Okay,
So I'm about to, like, you know, contradict myself by
being that guy say right, I'm used to I'm tech
line to it now. I don't fail when y'all dropped
hot music, the hot music that that wasn't my song.

(01:00:59):
I'm literally walking Apparently things Fall Apart was my soundtrack
when I first heard that song. If I had any
freaking doubt that I had a life of music ahead
of me. That's said. That was my Superman music so
much so that on my album I had a song

(01:01:20):
called Ella's Gone. That's not the original. That's not the
original beat. The original beat sounded more like, you know,
I got a story to tell, biggie. They sound more
like it sounded like that m after I got off tour,
literally immediately after I got off tour, because we started

(01:01:42):
doing that song to that, I said, where were I know,
we're in the middle of mixing where re recording that song? Okay,
so your finger is that album. That's what I'm saying.
But I had to put myself in it enough to
feel like, Okay, I can promote this baby. It's funny

(01:02:04):
because I wasn't at the time when you were recording
this record. Because I think comments on that, right, like
I think everyone but me is on the Hub is
on a whole another song that I did, right. I
here's the thing Rich never told me about the l
is going. So we were in we were in Cleveland

(01:02:28):
and your album and shot Day's album whatever she released
in two thousands. I forget the name of it, right,
So I remember love is Rock and I just want
to sing coming out at the same time. I'm I'm

(01:02:48):
on touring Voodoo m hm, and we're in Cleveland. I'm
not gonna get into bood because that's whole that's a
whole other conversation. Shout out to the homie. But we're
in Cleveland and Gerill LeVert pulls up backstage and I'm

(01:03:10):
hearing the next movement but done in a really different way.
And I go to this car. I'm like, wait, what's that?
You see the case and like, wait, that's how first
that is so so so, because what happened was my
managers probably hit Rich up and probably got the got

(01:03:32):
the green light from from old Boy you know, you know,
I just didn't know. So I heard gariell LeVert was
blasting at Alvin's wit and I went into a car
like yo player again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's how
I heard the joint circle consider and break you off. Yeah,

(01:03:52):
I forgot the dude. I would tell you I was
kind of hot. I was. I wanted Gerald LeVert to
do it that it would have been dope. But that's
not the point. That's my point. I had a huge
grievance with y'all with that whole music wait like this

(01:04:12):
is where finds out there? People? Good alright that you
didn't suck me over? It was didn't this start with
us should have been the third choice, all right, So

(01:04:35):
check it out. So check it out. If I'm about
to tell to break you all story right now, stop
doing run dmc postes like you. I'm gooding you my
undevided attention. You wanted this thing, So I will start
off this story the same I started off Jill Scotts.
You got me story with communication is not the roots

(01:04:59):
is fortune. For the record, I'm completely over it. Just
to let you know. I'm I was over it after
we did the video, you know what I'm saying. But
prior to then, yeah, I was all right. So check it.
So here here's my side. Here's my side of what
it happened. Was okay, So the story break you off?

(01:05:22):
Is that uh okay? Who is the promoter that is
uh the proprietor of the Kings of Comedy, not stan
Leything but uh not Al Hayman. But he's in that circle.
He's the he's the executive producer of the Kings of

(01:05:42):
Comedy movie that Spike shot God Walter is it Walter
Walter is something I wonder if Walter is related to
stan leyth al Right. So in two thousand, uh, Alter Latham,
comedy promoter who's making billions off the Kings of Comedy franchise,

(01:06:07):
you know, with Cedric and Steve and everybody. Uh, he
decides that he wants to do well. You know at
the time, I said, oh, it's sort of like Living Color.
He's like, no, this is a black SNL and we're
all okay. So we shot a pilot of a black

(01:06:29):
SNL with like Earthquake like luminaries. I mean, I'm certain
that if I saw the line up, at least seven
of them would be like household names now. But the
only person I knew personally back then was Earthquake. Uh.
But it was a sketch comedy show, just like SNL
and we were the SNL band and that's why. Yeah,

(01:06:54):
we were the SNL band. And they wanted to have
like guests sit in with us, so they chose music
and Ki White incidently, try wait, were you backstage when
she tried to set her off from Riek? Were you
backstage with us? Now? This is like two weeks this

(01:07:14):
is this is two weeks after Do you remember that stabbing. Yeah,
we all did those two weeks fresh out of jail,
all that stuff. Okay, So all I remember was all right,

(01:07:35):
So there was an incident backstage where, you know, I
wasn't paying attention, but Terik obviously said something that upset
Kiki White. I wasn't I wasn't there either, but I heard,
but you know, I write about it. So all I
know was that she took her shoes off, and she
took her earrings off, and like I just remember, Rich

(01:07:59):
had to get in between. Oh, like she was trying
to set her off from some ship, like you was
gonna talk to me like that, blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah. And she's really about that life back then.
Bro yo, dog, I don't think it's back. Yeah it might.
It might still be popping in. It's like later. I'm
just saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She said, all of

(01:08:22):
them kids, that's a live dude shouts out, same husband's
out shouts out. I don't know, I don't know, but
shouts out. Man, it's a couple. But the numbers are good,
they're low, Okay, A shouts out to her. That's what
she did for that no real, all jokes aside that
that's a lot. I come from with your family, so

(01:08:43):
that's a lot, man. So my whole point is that
the whole point is that um really not being familiar
with the situation and like having prepared music and all
that stuff. We were just jamming. So, uh if five

(01:09:03):
minutes into it, you know, Kamal was playing some ship
and next thing, you know, like the seeds that break
you off with sort of in the air because it
was it was a few joints. It was a few joints,
you know, bumps and stuff you know in a commercial
or whatever. And I think you're sounding like like like

(01:09:24):
the foulon gig. Y'all been training for that, you know
what I'm saying. I don't understand like since since then.
So that's why when it came full circle with the
foulon ship, I was like, that makes sense, right. So
the thing was when I think we just made a
break you off, just have an extra song for an
extra pumper. I didn't think about it any further till

(01:09:47):
after that. So what I didn't know was that coman
come on, you go on the studio to to he went,
I know, he went in on fire, like I'm gonna
make this a join and I was just like, all right, cool,
Like I I didn't hear about it that it was
going to be a food until way after and then

(01:10:11):
I was privy to all of the demos. It was like,
come on, so so the deals music don't even so
you're gonna learn just like you're gonna learn, just like

(01:10:31):
with the You Got Me story. So we have the single.
I mean, you know it was for me. It was
a cool song just for that space. I didn't think
it was like, oh, we're really gonna do a song
called come to Break You Off? Like that wasn't even
but even in the instruction of it, that wasn't even

(01:10:53):
the um what was being said. I was doing some
Marvin Gay you know process through the Angelo, mumbling like
I don't even know what I was saying, which I
think the words coming to pick you off was was
formed or something like that that I heard, right, But

(01:11:15):
I'm just giving my side of the story, and I'm
hearing you, bro, I'm listening right. So after after that,
after we shot that pilot, I wasn't thinking about that song.
Come on, went and shot a Crewe demo of it,
and then I guess at that point, I think rich

(01:11:35):
and I were just like, all right, so are we
gonna make this the anti Roots album? Like let's just
let's just do a whole bunch of songs that don't
sound like the Roots and that sort of thing, and
Richard was like, yeah, that's it. I was kind of
being like bitter, sarcastic, like we're doing R and B
songs now, and he was just like, now the ship works.

(01:11:56):
And so then I was like, so when I got aboard,
I don't know, I know the first contestant was Alicia Why.
I don't know how it came to be. I know
that the Roots Alicia Keyson do a song together. She
was on the rocket ship at the rocket Ship at
the time. Why not? Well, she and I were friends.

(01:12:18):
She and I have been friends since when she was
on Columbia. Yeah, she was Alicia James, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
because I had to join on the right soundtrack. No no, no, no,
that was what's her name with the Afro. This is
like that thread when James was Alicia James originally, right, right, right,

(01:12:45):
that's right, that's right. I met Alicia was when I
was tracking most for Double trouble. Alicia was next door.
That's how it first met her. She was next door
at Battery Studios working on her Columbia debut record, which
never came out. She was on Columbia Records first Michael Malton,

(01:13:07):
that's signed her to Columbia. Like she was fourteen, so
she shouldn't have been singing back then. I'm thinking like
talking about when she was breaking up, but I'm saying seven.

(01:13:27):
She was like seventeen eighteen. That's when I first met her,
working on a Columbia joint. Um break you off with
a little uh well, I mean, whatever the case was.
She famously stood us up four times like I'm coming,
and then like Steve wakes me up, like she here yet,

(01:13:49):
and Steve's like it's four in the morning. No next.
So it went from her you weren't heard blow just
lit Jill Scott. Now do you know that when Jill

(01:14:09):
Scott did it, she turned into the magic stick? What
she even wanted to talk about Terick's magic. All I
know is that Jills Quest Love Supreme are man. We

(01:14:29):
are on the magic stick of no, no, no no.
But this is the thing though we're only at four actually,
wrote Joe kind of wrote the hook that's the bridge
to break you Off. Don't say that get this check
mayor she's gonna come get this check carbon change the words,

(01:14:50):
but that what that bridge that he's saying was an
idea that Joe have wrote for Break You Off and
and Gerald Evert events I heard that swearty music. I
was after Leicia. It stood me up the second time
because I'm the one that had to wait the studio.
Steve can testify me sleep on the couch and she

(01:15:12):
here yet? No, she here yet? No calling. There After
that I was, I was like, fuck this song like
it's not and the Angelo, I mean, maybe she showed
up and I didn't. I didn't hear the doorbell or something. No, no, no,
she just she just ghosted. And even what's her name,
Claudette Ortiz. That's how I never forgave Steve Stout for

(01:15:35):
we cleared Silent Treatment for that that damn City High song.
What's it called a caramel? Right? But we cleared it
thinking that all right, and I knew was the song
about child abuse. You'll remember Caramel? What would you do

(01:15:57):
if homes? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, there's a traumatizing song. No
what we go anyway based on the Caramel song I

(01:16:20):
sing joint and that didn't happen. So literally twelve people later,
I remember Kamal saying, wait a minute, y'all started with music, No, no, no.
Kamal said, wait a minute, y'all, this started with music.

(01:16:40):
Why don't we just have music do it? And then
we were all like, oh, yeah, you're right, we forgot.
So it was I just don't want you to think that.
You were like, damn, that's like he whacked. Let's not
put him on the record. It wasn't even that. It
was just like I didn't even I didn't even take
it like that per se. There might have been some

(01:17:02):
element of that adjacent to my feelings, you know what
I'm saying, right, but I'm just like my ego wouldn't
allow me to believe it can't be because they think
I'm whack, right, And it was never that. It was
just like it was like glasses on your forehead, like
you tear up the rooms glass you in your car,

(01:17:23):
You're in your car at not looking for your phone
with the flash that on. I know exactly, and where
the fun is my phone? So Camal said, right right,
Kamal said dude, y'all, y'all going to jump through all
these hoops trying to get people sing this song. Why
don't we just go to music? It felt right when
he and then it was like, oh ship, we never

(01:17:45):
thought of that, duh, and then it happened. Sad story, bro,
that's a sad story. I love you though, I still
love you, man, I still know I that's all I ever.
I never, I never, you know, I never let it interfere.
Like you know, it's a whole lot of stuff, you

(01:18:05):
know what I'm saying that I can get into that.
I constantly feel slighted, you know what I'm saying by y'all.
But I'm sure it has a lot to do with,
you know, miscommunication, lack of communication. I never came up.
It might never may have never came up, you know
what I'm saying. It's cool our years and for years

(01:18:28):
I used to be like, yo, I repped so hard
for these idiots. They will never shout, shut me out
or look out or nothing that. But it's like, you
can't take it that way, man, Like them dudes, they're
they're shut up anyway anyway. But I'm just letting you know,

(01:18:48):
like you know, well, I'm just just I always do
my it never hap. I just want I just want
to make a point to say that despite all of
the spaces I found myself in what the hero there
about y'all, I always find a way to reconnect to

(01:19:09):
you know what I'm saying, my initial um um affinity
for y'all. You know what I'm saying. It's bigger than
the individual people. You know what I'm saying, y'all represent
something so huge that you can't let you personal feelings
for individuals to get in the way of that. Like
I was hot with Frank for a second, you know
what I'm saying, because when y'all was on Voodoo. You
know what I'm saying, I wanted to go, say with

(01:19:29):
something to date and he was like, yeah, now he's
not seeing no people right now. I was like, well,
can you let me know when he's seeing people? Yeah?
I was like, now this is now. Let me tell you.
I only went to two concerts before before I pop, right,
it was it was when and it came to Philly.

(01:19:51):
It was D'Angelo and it was Lauren Hill. That's it,
because those are only two that was even interested. And
I loved job, but I'm like, I could see y'all whenever.
You know what I'm saying. I might have not been
a cool thing to do, to be so dismissive, but
I'm like, I'm gonna see them, like now we mad
easy son, you know what I'm saying. But just literally
after after the food, you get how to feel everybody

(01:20:12):
walk off. I was like, this is amazing, this epic
foll of up. So I'm walking back because I'm like,
I literally really know like seventy five percent of everybody
on that stage, you know what I'm saying. Let me
just go say what's uping? You know? And Frank caught
me at the door, was like, yoh, what's something I'm
champing over the So so it's cool if I go
back and he's like, I don't know, uh, I don't
think you're seeing anybody right now. I was like, but

(01:20:35):
it's me whole men, I don't, I don't. That don't
mean anything. Can we all agree I'm about to give
a compliment in a backwards way, but can we all
agree that as much as the slighting that you may
have felt from like any any Roots crew situation, the
circle back is amazing because even if you just think
about like you headline in the Roots Picnic, it's just

(01:20:55):
it's always it's always a circle back. So I just
to their credit, you know what I mean? Yeah, well
you know that a little slightly triggering. So I did
it because I needed to from my own You have
to understand something I did the Roots Picnic or the
earlier what I decided to do when before COVID pre COVID,
which is why I was grateful that it came back
around and I was thought of, which is why I

(01:21:16):
meant I met them like thanks for thinking of me,
because y'all could have been like, uh, you know what
I'm saying, I don't know. So I did that for
me because I needed to get past that. What I
needed to get past was was the Chapel Ship. What
the fun here? Exactly? Oh my god, that exactly. I

(01:21:36):
didn't put that together. I'm not I'm not coming you.
I was literally right here with the Chappell party and
also that photo okay, not even that's not even getting
into all right, So it's okay, it's okay, this is

(01:21:59):
what I'm ang. Okay, I need to get past it.
So every opportunity that it comes up with me, just
the ancillary events that I'm constantly being I'm sure that
you probably don't even know about. I don't know about.
I don't organize all of these things. It's okay, it's okay.

(01:22:19):
But in my mind, because I don't know the inner
dynamics of y'all situation, I think I'm doing this for
the right damn you. You gotta communicate, man, this could
have cut this ten years ago. So I did the
I did the Roots picnic because I needed to get
over my own issues surrounding y'all, because I didn't want

(01:22:40):
to have no issues. But I didn't know how to
interact with any of y'all like that. You know what
I'm saying. Yeah, it's the ways I can get folks number,
But I'm not gonna cold call nobody like you know.
It's cool, no beef, it's not an on site situation.
But I'm not gonna act like we interact all like
that either. You know what I'm saying, what you understand
what I'm You understand what I'm slowly realizing. Um No,

(01:23:03):
And this is the first time like i've i've I've
heard that. Even this week, cosmic keV was like, I
feel a certain way, asked me nothing, don't I'm sorry no, no,
oh boy, um what's his name? Uh? While his partner
um gilly also the same thing, which no, it's it's

(01:23:25):
never like we're never like no, let's not ask them.
A lot of times it is eiven like finances or
a lot of these things we do is by the
skin of our teeth or a favor. So we love
everyone is so not not. I don't want to keep
making it a point to say that I love you, man.

(01:23:46):
This is why saying it, just to be saying it
like I have, because that's something that I have to
know and feel in myself. That's the only reason why
I did the Felon situation. I wouldn't have did that,
like for what. They never asked me to do nothing
for what? But I was like, nah, it's the roots,
like they're on last platform. You know what I'm saying,

(01:24:09):
And stop acting like you don't want to be a
part of that. That's a lot of our stories. I
just need you to know this, like it's so no,
it's cool, it's cool. But yeah, even even even I don't,
I'm not gonna be in people's faces talking right now
unbeknownst to y'all, I'm in a very weird emotional, psychological
and emotional space to the point where I gotta tell

(01:24:30):
my my, my, my, my publicist, family, you might want
to chill on the interviews because I'm spelling my guts
too much, bro, And don't nobody want to keep hearing this? Like,
let me deal with my stuff, man, Like, let me
get into a better place so that I can be
the person that people are kind of sort of looking for.
You know what I'm saying, call when he send it
to you. Because if that's the case, if you try

(01:24:52):
to be progressive and be better, then I don't want
to hear that bad man whatever, I don't want to
hear that. What's what's progressive? What I meant, dude, I'm
just saying, don't be all black manes like, I don't
do that. Before this serves a nine hour conversation, how

(01:25:13):
how have you been adjusting? How have you been how
have you been adjusting? Two life pre COVID Like for
a lot of us, this is the first extended break
that we've ever gotten um and a chance to reconnect

(01:25:34):
with our families. And like I've been saying, which is
which is which is what has like uh instigated at
least for me to get into the minutes of my timeline,
which I still haven't finished because I'm literally still at
the beginning. Yeah, keep keep going. Yeah, We're still at
the beginning. You know what I'm saying. But I'm making
a point to say that is all of these all

(01:25:55):
of this baggage. I can't run away from unpacking now.
I used to be able to hide behind working. I
don't have the luxury of doing that anymore. It meets
me when I wake up. It's there. Even when I
go to sleep, I wake up in pain, like physical
muscle pain, because I know that in my sleep, I'm like,

(01:26:18):
hella trigger, Yeah, my my jaws be hurting because I
know I clinch at night. I know that, you know
what I'm saying, Like, I know because I have a
lot of unpacked shit, man, that I'm dealing with, like
and then I have new ship that comes to me,
Like I'm dealing with a whole situation that I don't

(01:26:41):
even talk about. You know what I'm saying. It's people
that know, and I know they're like, wait, night, is
it gonna say anything? Is is he gonna is he
gonna say anything. It's a personal situation concerning personal situation.
You know what I'm saying that this person whole, it's

(01:27:03):
a whole person that's on a whole different wave that
I can't even understand right now, you know, And I'm
trying to manage that. You know what I'm saying, What
the fund is the last thing that made you smile? Like,
what's what's bringing joy in your life? I mean, my
son does it? You know what I'm saying for him?
He has little things that he do with moments that

(01:27:23):
I have with him. You know what I'm saying. That'd
be like you're funny, bro, you know, but like it's
I said it to one of my brothers, were my
only brother that I really fool with like that, Like
it's so fun to be a part of a potential
oh ship moment and be like I love you a
little homie, Like I actually love you, dude. I'm gonna

(01:27:46):
clean this up, but I love you, you know what
I'm saying, Rather than what the fuck? You know? Like
that's fun. I love being a part of that. I'm saying,
emotionally nurturing this dude, Like I love that like that
that brings me joy something that you didn't have, right,
you know that you didn't have? Yeah, man, So to

(01:28:07):
answer your question like immediately the short answers, you know,
things like that, you know what I'm saying, Um, but
trying to let go back to the story. So a
touch of jazz, so you know I'm already you know,
I know I know the story. You know, touch of jazz, jazz,
Jeff fresh friends out of that. You know what I'm saying,

(01:28:28):
Like I didn't sit the kool aid, bought the kool aid,
bought the recipe, tried my own version of it. You
know what I'm saying, Like I'm all the way in,
but my relationship never actually gets a stablished. I see
him every now and again. It's all love. Actually, funny enough,
I was because of jazz Jeff that I was introduced
to Dilla, So we're not that's a whole another. Um.

(01:28:49):
I still speak to T three. By the way, me
and T three are a group called Trace so mad
you put a song, I'll call once upon a time.
You might want to go check that out anyway. Yeah,
TRAYL t R A s o U L ninety eight
t R A s O U L ninety eight. So
back to touch. So me and Carbon working on joints.
We come up with just Friends, we come up with seventeen,

(01:29:11):
we come up with Girl next Door. Funny enough, Jill
Scott actually wrote the girl part on on Girl next Door.
Oh yeah, but I don't know what the details went
into her actually being that money. Okay, we've never talked
about it since. You know what I'm saying. But um,
she actually wrote that part. You know what I'm saying. Um,

(01:29:34):
But that's another story. It's a lot of strong man
stories that that I can get into. But I want
to stay focused. I'm working on all of these songs,
and in my mind, I'm not thinking, yeah, this is
gonna be my album. I'm like, oh, these are some
cool songs that I could play for people to show
them what I can do. So here it is December
of nine. I'm in Georgia and these my managers at

(01:29:58):
the time, it's like, Yo, where you at? We gotta
we gotta be in New York. You know what I'm saying. Uh,
tomorrow or the next day or whatever the day was.
And I was like, for what And it was like,
because we got a deal on the table for you
I was like, what you mean, what does that mean?
Oh god, you didn't know nothing, Like I'm fresh off
the streets, like I don't. There's no conversation of deals,

(01:30:22):
you know, there's no conversation of you know, we're shopping
you to this place in that place. If there were,
like I don't remember, you know, and they definitely weren't extensive.
They were you know, we're gonna play something for these
people or whatever if that was. But I'm I'm so
not dialed in. I'm just recording yea, And they're like,

(01:30:44):
wait a minute, where are you. I'm like, I'm in Atlanta?
What you mean? Why are you out there? Like? See,
this is how much we don't like all of us. Yes,
y'all just expected me to just be damn around like well,
it doesn't help that the fact that I was always
the point is, you know, if y'all was more invested

(01:31:07):
in the nigga personal life, you know, you would so
confused right now, No, nigga, you're a worker. So they're like, well,
we needna nah fam we need to we gotta get
back out, And I'm like, okay, well you know, if
you can, you know, you know, don't need some bready,
so I can get um, get a Grayhound ticket. I'll
be there, you know, you know tomorrow sometimes like Greyhound,

(01:31:27):
Like what do you mean greyhound? Nah man, we need
we need you back, like now, like we get you
a plane ticket plane Nah, bro, I'm not getting on
no planet. That's not that's not happening. That's not happening.
I'm not I'm not doing that your wreath. What's the
shut up? All right? Yes, sorry whole sales. I'm sorry, yes,

(01:31:49):
thank you anyway for I really interrupted. I love you
like you yeah, shut you okay, that's that's not at all.

(01:32:10):
I don't know why it was so good. I don't
know why it would be creepy so awkward. That was
like you don't creepy as in the lectuous way, just
creepy as in you're just gonna hijack our moment right
now about me now, it's all love bro. Um. So

(01:32:35):
I'm like, no, I'm not getting on no plane, like
I know Greyhound. I know that we're gonna do the
bus route. We're not getting on the plane. It was like,
you gotta be kidding me, dude. I'm like yeah, no,
and I thought I was, you know, I had I
handle leverage. I thought I was negotiating, negotiating because I
came anyway like you. It's not like you wasn't gonna

(01:32:57):
come like right. So oh, and I was in a
mood because I had just cut my lots off because
I couldn't get a job in Georgia with my lots
for whatever weird reason. I don't know, Maybe I don't know.
I'm already I'm already in a mood. I'm in a
whole mood, you know what I'm saying. And then I
lost my job two weeks later, Like wow, okay, yeah,

(01:33:20):
this sucks. Life pretty much sucks. Yeah, And I'm all
and and I'm like, I'm having to deal with the
fact that, you know, even though I'm in Georgia, I
still don't have a good relationship with my parents, you
know what I'm saying. So that was still sucking with me.
I don't know my brother's and sisters. Yeah, I know
them physically, know them, but I don't I don't know them,
you know what I'm saying. And there's a whole lot

(01:33:41):
of them weirdness that was going on at the time.
But so I was like, you know what, whatever, I'm
literally not doing anything else with my life. I'm getting
another again again, I'm living off of this. So this
is doing this? Uh was selling rooms for like fifty
dollars a week. I was like, well that's a come
up in fifty dollars and you know what I'm saying,
So cool, I'll take this. But no plumbing, no no window.

(01:34:05):
It was literally just a space complex basically. Yeah. So
like you know what I'm saying. But I at least
had the luxury of living by myself, you know, and
live on top of nobody programs. So I thought I
had a little independence, you know what I'm saying. Um,
And that was at the time where I was I think,

(01:34:26):
I know I was, I was, I was where I
was I working? You're still working? I don't know. I
didn't forgot where. I didn't worked at so many places, bro,
like just this deal, you're still working. No, no, no, no,
this is right at the time where time. So I
found my way back to Philly, you know what I'm saying.
And the dudes that I told you that I met
at the open mic situation that let me stay at

(01:34:48):
their career because it was right around the corner. Now,
what it was was. It was a bunch of college
kids that lived in this really expensive three story four
become the basement house that I'm assuming and their parents
paid for. And it was like, you know, you could
just stay here for free, just pick up pick a room,
it doesn't matter, like pick a room. And I was like, bro,
this is dope, you know what I'm saying. They always

(01:35:10):
have food in the frieze. It wasn't that deep. But
you know, I didn't go hungry. You know, if they
felt inclined to, they would throw me a couple of dollars,
you know what I'm saying. Um, And it was cool,
you know what I'm saying. And I started doing music
with a couple of them, but we kind of like
winning a different direction. I actually did a whole project
with a whole bunch of stuff on it, and I
got one of them on it. I did like a

(01:35:31):
Filo inspired song and I got you know, I got
them on it, you know what I'm saying. But that
project never came up because when I ran a boy,
the label but it didn't sound like music sold out,
so you know, it was a whole project. I might
need to relive it. It was called Universal that's it's somewhere.
I gotta find it. It's it still on CD somewhere.
I did a song with Frank McCombe. This was pretty cool.
And on that I did a song I did a

(01:35:52):
song with with I did a song with a little John. Um.
It was like a pump rock, a punk punk, black punk,
afro punk kind of song or whatever. Pretty cool, Roberts.
I'm glad you was right because the other would have
been a problem. Yeah, Lord, John Roberts. You know I

(01:36:15):
did a record with him. Um, I was supposed to
do a song with Reek, but you know, oh Lord,
you just called Lord. Okay, No, I'm not saying this
to just call people out. I'm telling you about my timeline.
These are the things that this is still before you
signed a deal. No, this is afterwards. I just brought
that up to say, you know what I'm saying. These
people that I lived with, you know, I tried to,

(01:36:37):
you know, bring them up with me, but you know,
opportunities just never like came to fruition. Um. So now
I'm back in Philly and i'm living I'm just staying
with one of my managers that I didn't have nowhere
to stay but I knew that I could stay with
these guys if I can get in contact with But
he was like, NA, stay with me tonight so I
can know where you are. We're gonna all go to

(01:36:59):
New York together, you know what I'm saying. So that
was the first time I ever. Um, I didn't get
on the plane. Then I got on the plane when
I had to do the show up to the premiere
of The Nutty Professor too, because I was on the
soundtrack in l A. That's when I showed up. That's
when I actually took a plane. I'm saying, freaked you
out because that's yeah, it really was. It really it

(01:37:19):
really did freak me out at the premiere. And at
the premiere I ran into bifical foughts while she was eating.
I was so starstruck and I wanted to picture. She
was like, sir, I'm eating. I was like sorry. She
was cute though. Um anyway, I know, I'm like going

(01:37:40):
off on tangents, but this is you know, so um,
but New York. So I'm sitting in front of Kevin
Loos death so with a fresh haircut. Well it's not
not not yet. It was a fresh haircut. It was
just freshly cut. Okay, okay, I didn't have time to

(01:38:01):
get it cut up. So I'm wolfing. I don't have
no coat. That's I know, you from Philly, So I
gotta borrow my manager's coat. Who was what six six?
And I'm just telling stories. Okay, yes you're figuring it out,

(01:38:24):
but let's just tell I'm in this big bubble coat,
this big brown bubble coat. I think it was fat form.
I don't know. And I'm sitting there, you know, red
Man is sitting on the table. I'm talking to this
dude I never met before, I ever heard of, Kevin Liles,
because I'm thinking because what I asked him on the phone,
I was. They was like, yeah, we gotta deal for
you on the table. I was like deal what you mean?
Like what does that mean? No, we got we signed

(01:38:45):
your record there. I was like, well, who with death Champ?
You mean like with Russell Simmons and them? It was like, no, Man,
Russell Simmons is not over depth Jam. And I was like,
I don't know. I just you said depth Jam, Russell Simmons,
It's all I know. I was like, NAS's doing that?
Kevin lis I'm like, oh, like Kevin Lows like I
was like, I don't hear the bell, bro, Sorry, Becau.

(01:39:07):
People don't understand how how like not knowing that I
was what I'm saying, I was vegan anyway, not technically,
but anyway, So you get it. Uh So I mean,
I mean Kevin Law's office and they're talking to me

(01:39:28):
about all of this stuff. That's like, Bro, I have
no idea what any of you were talking about. Right now,
here's what I proposed. Since you like to work so much,
won't you give me the bread and let me go
back in the studio and work on what I want
to work on. No, Na, these songs are great, Bro,
these songs are great. You should put these out. I
don't want to put these out because these don't represent

(01:39:50):
how I feel about presenting myself as mind you music.
Soul Child wasn't even the name. People knew me as music.
Technically it is, but people knew me as music. But
if I but I told myself, if I ever became
a thing, I would call myself soul Chat because I
represented the thing that I was trying to do. But

(01:40:11):
I got the bro, like, people already know you as music,
So why why would you do. No, nobody know me,
but you got the compromis. You got the compromise. So
I said, you know what, how about we do this?
How about we how about we put it together? We
got music soul shots, like, it's like bust the rhymes.
You know, it's like a trap question, you know what

(01:40:32):
I'm saying. So there was like, cool, whatever, you know
what I'm saying, As long as you can get the music.
I was like, okay, that's why there was a discrepancy
around like my second album, because I was like, I
don't feel authentic with this name, Like it would be different.
No no, no, no, no no no, it would be
different if I was actually living up to the name.

(01:40:53):
But I don't feel like I'm living up to the name.
So until I do, I don't think that it's it's
it's authentic, you know what I'm saying. For me to
call myself the full name, let me focus on it,
because as it turns out, y'all have been running this show.
Music is y'all's things somehow along and I broken telephone.
Everybody got the word you better not call him soul child.

(01:41:16):
So people will be like, so is it music isn't
like why y'all keep asking me this question, no, because
we keep getting told you know what I'm saying, like,
you know, we're better enough, because you would get mad
or some ship some weird. I'm like, dude, whoa, whoa, Oh,
y'all doing way too much. And that's why after the
third album, I was like, you know what, let me
help y'all out. Let's bring it back to music, cause
apparently I can't get around it. Okay, let's go back

(01:41:39):
to music, Soul Child, But then that even more confusion,
you know what I'm saying, because they couldn't deny that
they were basically being browbeaten by I don't know, the
deaf gam goons to you know, fall in line and
mind you. I'm not a part of none of this,
but I gotta get in front of it. Though. Again communication,

(01:42:04):
no one's talking to me about any what you want? Right?
And then they got moved over to Atlantic and they
kept going. So when I tell people in two thousand fifteen,
I haven't even gotten started yet, they're like, what are
you talking about? You're like, like, ain't you you? They

(01:42:26):
don't know, right? How can I communicate that to the
How can I make this make sense? To people fifteen years.
I'm gonna have to ask Diana, you know, it's been
fifteen years and I still feel like I haven't I
haven't done me yet. You didn't feel like Peel the

(01:42:47):
Real was doing you. That's in that's in seventeen. But
to answer your question, but answer your question, yes, but
before we got sided, before you got to even then,
but even then, that was me doing me with things
that probably wouldn't have seen the light of day. So
you think of it and think of Phil the Real

(01:43:08):
is like a like a loss tapes, so that speaks
now is lost stage. That's what that feels like to me,
because that wasn't me going in the studio and actually
working on things from the ground up. That was like
stuff that I had around that I thought was doper
than anything. Like a lot of those songs are like
ten years old, wow, almost, you know what I'm saying,

(01:43:31):
at least the concepts of it that I just pulled
back from the vault, you know, maybe not ten years
or maybe that putting extras on it, you know what
I'm saying, But they're like way older than you know
what I'm saying. Life on Earth was different because that
was all Warren Campbell. Literally every song is Warren Campbell. Now,

(01:43:52):
there is a song on there that is like about
ten years old. It's called Alive and Well, you know
what I'm saying that I did way way way back.
Feel a real actually played one of the songs and
for Benefits, I played that for all for Knife. Okay,
I played Benefits for Knife, and Knife was like, Yo,
so what we're doing, Like you're trying to sign the
Jambler Like I'm like, like, it's not that simple, Like

(01:44:14):
I have a engagement with a whole other company contract
with I love you, but not right now. We can
have a conversation later. You know what I'm saying. That's
why Rap is on it. You know what I'm saying,
because I get him for Rap, because I'm like, yo,
I need Rap on my ship, like I need her,

(01:44:36):
you know what I'm saying. So, um, yeah, that's why
she's on the on the on the uh life. Yeah, No,
she's on the um. She's on a joint called far
Gone on Life on Earth. You know what I'm saying.
That's how she got on here. But um, and I
actually wanted to do a whole project with Rap. You

(01:44:57):
know what, I'm saying, but I think you know, you know,
the communication got got broke down. You know what I'm saying.
We got a whole talk about it, you know what
I'm saying, At least me and him, Me and Rap
didn't really talk about it. I told her that it
was something that I wanted to do, but we didn't
really like discussed disgusted, but I discussed it with him
like yo, and the whole ship could be produced by
all Gambler producers, like I don't care, like I would

(01:45:17):
go right now. You know what I'm saying. You know
you got you got Jones, you got Crisis, you got
you know, you know what I'm saying. You got all
these people that does mad good ship. You know what
I'm saying. You got you you know, let's go. But
you know it just that never happened. So hopefully, you
know I'm using a Rhapsody project produced by you know,

(01:45:39):
all Gama producers, might happen, might not. I don't know
that would be dope. But you you just getting started,
so yeah, you know what I'm saying, I think got
so bad. I literally just started starting up groups with everybody.
That's why I me and T three r groups. You
know what I'm like, cause I was like, I need
to start doing me now, you know what I'm saying,
and I want to work with everybody. I actually was talking.
I don't know how realistic it is, but I was

(01:46:00):
talking to Robert. I was like, yo, I think me
bellowing Jazz. We need to be a group and you
should produce the whole thing. And I talked to Jazz
about it. She was like, did you did you talk
to Beln't like, you know, I didn't. Actually now I
don't have his number and I have no way of
contacting him. You know what I'm saying. I used to
you know what I'm saying, But he would just you know, Yeah,

(01:46:22):
it's so funny because you know, it's taking my calls
after a while. I don't know why, but I don't know,
it's different. People just move, I guess, you know whatever.
So I just so I just stopped. I just stopped calling.
You know what, time isn't called social media? Right? Oh?
You you have to you under the impression that I
frequently peruse those means. I don't at all. Yeah, I

(01:46:49):
don't even I don't d M. I don't do that.
I ain't gonna be on music versus probably not literally
you wouldn't enjoy it anyway. Yeah, I literally literally that
was that would be so right. I'm so sorry that
I think quite the opposite. Then somebody needs to be

(01:47:13):
represented on my behalf because I'll just be there like, well,
my question is is there a part of you? Is
there a part of you even in the midst of
you know, feeling like you know when you talk about
not being able to really represent yourself and kind of
what those early records represent, is there a part of
you that does feel like you did in many ways

(01:47:35):
get the last laugh because of everyone that, Yeah, nig
because in the midst of that so Curry and Photo,
you're the one that had the most like chart success,
the most long generally think about that, nigga you want
because it is because of the chet because even think

(01:47:56):
about winning. You gotta understand, I don't see if I
want when I don't even see the wind, Guess why
I don't see that You're not working at the piece
of spot. You knows perception. Everybody loves sighting. My timeline
to me like I'm not me like, I get it,

(01:48:17):
I get it. That's not trying to make sense. No,
and that I always say. People always try to rationalize it,
you know what I'm saying, because they don't want to
contend with the reality that everything that I've done up
until now is was per request. So even if the
fact that it was successful doesn't mean anything to you,
it's like no, no, no, it does. But which But

(01:48:39):
if you want me to be all up at arms
about how great I did, I didn't do great. It
was a collective effort, what I'm saying, And it was,
but it was it was. It was a collective effort,
but it was it was essentially under the rest, you
know what I'm saying. Not that nobody was putting the

(01:49:00):
gun in my head, but I didn't really have any
other opportunities, so my best. But it was a whole
span between my third and my fourth album that I
was on the phone with members of the label and
they were trying to explain to me, like, fam, if
you don't move in this direction, it could very well
be over for this. Yeah, And I had to sit
with that, like it's not good with Lee or or

(01:49:23):
Julie or any of them. Oh, I ain't got no
beef with Leo and Julie like that. I never really
dealt with them directly, Yeah, passing. I would see them
in passing and it was all up. Like I have
literally no beef with either one. I don't have a
relationship with them, more so with Julie than Lee are.

(01:49:43):
But even then it's like it's touch and gold, Like
I don't you know what I'm saying. It was it
was I went to work, you know those doors we
worked together, you know what I'm saying. Um, My relationship
was directly with Kevin Lows and even sometimes not even
with him, it was on at the behest of Kevin Lyles, right,

(01:50:07):
So yeah, Like, and it's hard, and that's why I
don't talk about it because I know how much it
undermines people's relationship with my music and the expectations they
have of what they're gonna get. So I try. I
do my best to live up to it. But when
you start getting older and you start looking yourself in
the mirror after you just did you know, some shocking

(01:50:28):
and driving, you don't feel good on the inside. So yeah,
even though I can account for the successes and I'm
eternally grateful for the blessings that came from it, because
I wouldn't even have a name of credibility or way
to provide for myself and loved ones. That's not lost
on me at all. It doesn't take away the real
reality though, that my time like it is with So

(01:50:50):
let me ask, how would you explain your twenty year
experience as far as your creative output, your your actual albums,
your art. How do you explain that to your son?
How do you break it down to him? How do
you present it to He doesn't care. That's the that's

(01:51:11):
the that's how I get off. He doesn't care. He
doesn't even know what's a thing, but he will. It's
not part of his day. He literally has no clue
that you're as He literally not just me, his mom.
I was about to say his mom too. You don't
know he gets it. He gets an honest both ways,
and he literally has no clue. He doesn't even like

(01:51:34):
us singing to him. He gets emotional, He literally starts crying.
Yeah that's ill. Yeah yeah, I mean, but you know
he has his challenges. You know, he's not he's not
really good at communicating his emotions and his thoughts. Like
that's a challenge. So we don't know whether that's a
police stop or police don't know what's going on, like

(01:51:55):
you know, so we're still we're still managing that, you
know what I'm saying. But I don't take it away.
I actually prefer that he doesn't know, so that you know,
all he sees is that that's all he sees. You know.
I don't want to better. You know what I'm saying,
saying I better, you know what I'm saying, because I
want I want him to like do no. She often
the QLs family. We'll do this to me because I

(01:52:20):
hate the idea of roses or taking roses or accepting
compliments or owning ship. But I mean, let me just say,
you know, okay, you're about to get super woman. You
know I wasn't that. It doesn't matter. Pause, take this

(01:52:46):
good right now. Don't make me call you by your government.
Take this good ship, go ahead of mirror. No dog,
I'm just saying that you have done a great service.
You have, dude. You you've made the definitive. You made
a definitive wedding song. That's hard to not a wedding song.

(01:53:10):
It's not a wedding song. Wait which wait wait wait
wait wait wait wait, which one are you talking. I've
been at least really do the two. I've been to
tending weddings where love is the new you and I.
You know how that song is no No, it's an
emo song. You know Emo? That song is Oh wait

(01:53:31):
is this another reason? Wait? Wait? It's the inside joke
with Earth when Fire reasons not being the song that
black people mean it for. But I didn't know that
funny enough that you brought that up. I actually remade
that song with Warren Cample. It's pretty lit. You might
want to go check it out. So Matt speaking to
Warren Campu. So you talk about, you know, songs not

(01:53:54):
representing you, please tell me it's until one of the
songs that representation as you're of performed that played the
radio station in l A at kjk j l H
by Stevie Wonder and Stokeley Williams called in. It was

(01:54:15):
like brodition. That was like a freaking highlight. And that's
why I was produced. That was produced by Warren Campbell
with a gap band. Really Charlie Wilson sample in it,
and I'm also referencing Marvin Gay like I can't make
that all? I love that song, can't there we go

(01:54:38):
and the resident DJ. I can't make that up, bro,
Like that was a highlight of my life. And then
Steve decided to get on the radio, to get on radio, live,
live on radio and place Keys tell them, you're like
egging me to sing love. You know what I'm saying,
Like like, Stevie is literally the god like literally for me.

(01:55:04):
You know what I'm saying. So just to wrap up
the question that you asked me, I'm trying to give
you a compliment, but you know the previous question, the
previous question, the previous question, you know what I'm saying.
And also to sew up a lot of loose ends,
particular because he keeps asking me certain things and I'm not.
I'm not. He's like, okay, at least tell me blah

(01:55:26):
blah blah. But that's when it changed. It changed with
life on Earth. But even still it was um a
Warren Campbell production, you know what I'm saying. I loved it,
and we kind of had our falling out in the process.
We since made up. I called him was like, bro,

(01:55:49):
I'm not gonna walk around with ship in my chest
for you. I'm letting it go. We're cool, you know
what I'm saying because it wasn't even him, it was
ancillary individuals in the midst well an individual so we're
not even wanna get into that. But um I love
that project. And and that was when I was like,
That's when I was really definitively like I'm done. That's

(01:56:11):
why my first single, um, I do thank You. I
went to l A and he was like, yo, I
got this John, I want you to be. I was like, dude,
I'm not even feel I don't even feel like. He's like, dude,
just get in there and saying whatever you want to
sing like that, just do you. So the first thing
that came out of my mouth was sometimes I don't
like you always got a problem with anything that I do.

(01:56:34):
I don't know. He's honest and everything about you. And
I was like, I better clean this up. But I know,
I just clean it up. I do, I do? I do?
I do? And you know, and then I fell out
of it again. But then I ran into this dude
named Jay Rail from Atlanta and we did five records

(01:56:55):
together on Feel the Real. You know. That dude literally
brought me out and we're a group called Denim Rolls.
So y'alls you everybody. Damn. I'm literally legit in three
functioning groups right now. It's Denim Rolls with j Rol,
he's my producer that we worked together. The five records

(01:57:16):
don't feel the real It's LOOMI Trice. You know what
I'm saying with two guys from Atlanta, one from Alabama.
And you know it's actually more it's like a single's
version of a of a trip called quest type situation
I'm trying to do. Um. We put two singles I'll
call the same way and and p D A. P
D A is actually pretty fresh. You might want to
go check out p d A UM and it's really

(01:57:36):
tries LU and my t R I c E UM
and and I'm in a group with uh Yes trace On.
We got a song called one one more Time, I
mean once once upon a time. You know what I'm saying. UM,
And that's that's the ones that are functioning. There's other
ones that I'm still waiting on. Somebody you like, pick

(01:57:57):
it up and help me because I can't do it
on myself. If in the group you know what I'm saying,
But I don't want to pressure nobody to like you
get to it whenever you get to it, you know
what I'm saying. But in the meantime, so fast forward
to today, the most on brand music soul child project
I've ever done. Mhm. It's called Do It for Dilla

(01:58:21):
the Sole Brother Series, Volume one. It's available. It's available
on Vancount. I literally took Villa beats and I did
remix of Danny Had to Weigh, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson,
Marvin Gaye, Prince. That is the most thing that I've
ever done in my entire career because it's literally me

(01:58:44):
going back to where it started from for me, because
I got lost. I couldn't see the road no more.
So something in my head said, due, just start from
the beginning. Why are you even doing this, dude? Like
what got you into? What made you want to do this? Well,
it's because you know, I'm listening to all of these
people that I felt like super dope and they helped
me learn how to find my voice in music. So
let me honor them. And then I've always been trying to,

(01:59:06):
like you, remember, I've been trying to do this dialer
thing I did. Uh. He actually sent me up a
chop up up dancing machine and I did a record
over and I played it for you because we were
supposed to work on some stuff, but that got weird.
You played you the first was supposed to work on
some stuff and it got weird. No no, no, no, no,
no no no. Yeah yeah yeah, but me and a

(01:59:29):
mayor was supposed to work on stuff, but I moved
and we lost communication. And you know, there there the
roots and he's show up at plus you need something
from him right now, so we're gonna like this compliment up. Okay,
goddamn it, thank you to wrap it up, though, bro,

(01:59:51):
I appreciate your artistry. I love you, brother. These aren't empty,
meaningless brown newsy words t tudes. Sorry, but you are. Yes,
you are appreciated. No, seriously, straight up. And sometimes we
just forget to tell each other. Hey man, you just

(02:00:12):
forget that. That's the crime, and that's how it is,
what it is. It's cool, but understand, nobody else's voice
could have sang no songs and made us feel the
way we feel, regardless of whose exactly. Okay, now you can't.
I'm just saying I just in honor of that. I

(02:00:33):
just want to be more authentic. That's why I'm always trying.
You welcome back, do me. You know what I'm saying.
I'm tired of doing other people's stuff. Thank you for
throwing me the ball. I get it, but I want to.
I want to. I want to. I want to. And
we feel like, did you feel did you believe that
her the record with you and A eight Keys was
that you? Do you feel like that was you? Because

(02:00:54):
that's another one of my favorite ones to let's get
in there, in there. Yeah, because because I wasn't confident
that the label would have allowed it to have its
own I d you know what I'm saying, And the
only reason why they let me do the whole balal
things because was a balal thing, you know what I'm saying.
And plus it was epic. That's why I intro the

(02:01:16):
song the way that I did, like I don't care
if anybody agreed with me. This is a monumental, epic
moment to me and this dude on the same song.
I don't understand how huge this is. We got it,
We got it, We we got it. We've been watching
we fans don't do that. No for real, no jokes aside. Man,
We we love you, man, we appreciate you. And will

(02:01:37):
well we we will do. I will do better personally
to stay in kind because I'm also I'm Mr Hermit. No,
it's not what it is. It's it's the change that
could be for real, for real. We thank you for alright,
so on behalf of question. Love Supreme. Uh fine tacolo
uh unpaid bill went up in the rapture maybe for

(02:02:00):
Ticcoelo and Sugar Steve and music. Thank you very much
for joining us. My name is corss Love. We will
see you on the next go round. Quess. Love Supreme
is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts
from my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

(02:02:20):
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Questlove

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