QLS Classic: Gary Clark Jr.

Austin rocker and axman, Gary Clark Jr., brings blues-rock center stage in 2019 as he joins Team Supreme to talk about his journey from booking gigs at 14, to collaborating with The Rolling Stones and Eric Clapton and his new album, "This Land."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
This is Sugar Steve and on this week's QLs Classic,
Austin rocker and axe man Gary Clark Jr. Brings blues
rock center stage in two thousand nineteen as he joins

(00:22):
Team Supreme to talk about his journey from booking gigs
at fourteen to collaborating with the Rolling Stones and Eric
Clapton and his new album This Land, originally released March
sixth two thousand nineteen. Sabremo row called Suprema Supremo row

(00:54):
called Suprema Supremo row called Supreme Suprema road cars, loves
my name, Yeah, that you can trust. Yeah. I love
all my friends who don't throw me under the bus.
Suprima su Primo roll call, su Prima su Frema road call.

(01:18):
My name is Fante. Yeah. I don't want no drama. Yeah,
I'm just here to talk about the night I met
your mama. So Frema roll call, Suprema s Frema road call.
My name is Sugar. Yeah, Sugar Steve for the wind. Yeah.
Do you hear your train of coming? Yeah? When your

(01:41):
train pulls in roll call sum Carma su primo, road
car pay bill Yeah, not counting pasos. Ye should have divorced. Yeah,
Jeff Beatho Frema, Yes, roll Callmaremo roll call it's like

(02:07):
em Yeah, that's right. I'm floss in yeah because now
I know. Yeah, a black man from Austin Romo Supremo,
roll call, su Prima Sumo, roll call g c J. Yeah,
from the a t X Yeah, with Quest and Crew. Yeah,

(02:28):
and I don't know what's nice roll Fremo, roll call, Supremo, Supremo,
roll call, so Prema, so Frema, roll call su prima
so Fremo, roll call nice. Yeah, smooth with nice, smooth

(02:51):
with man dropped it full Yeah, real nice, rushing but
still not his badness. Yeah. Yeah he ranked up there.
Did you know you did it effortless? Appreciate that, Okay,
So I did h Hendricks bar Clark mash up in case. Yes,
deep deep cuts. I get it, deep cuts. And we're

(03:13):
in the house, of course. I'm gonna scoon sugar work. Yeah.
This is the Sugar Network edition of course, loves to
go ahead where we at see. No run your own show, bro,
I'm just here for punch the bus man I'm still

(03:33):
under the bush. You weren't talking about me, right, yeah,
you don't even know what's going on about. Well, it's
cool this sugar Steve and we're here at Electric Lady Studios.
That's right, we are anything else like for somebody, let's
move it, okay. Anyway, my roll call was the ship.
It was it was it was like it was like

(03:57):
you were great many let like an onion many levels. Um.
Oh wait, we might as well just start now because
I know I'm gonna play this about times now yeah
right now, all right, right now, yeah, step Mothermica, y'all

(04:22):
sounds so good. Oh man, are you Yeah, that's just
get plugging on that ship. So now that was just
me great when I walked into the room unpaid bill, yeah, um,
when he's not teaching Grover to curse on Sesame Street

(04:44):
and you gotta explain was that? I think y'all did
that on purpose. I heard it both ways, though, like
I heard what it supposed to be. It was what
was the thing the red dress? Yeah, like whatever that
was Willow Laura, Yeah, that Yanni verse is Laurel. What
exactly was that? I don't I didn't see it, but

(05:06):
I was told by my girlfriend who's the boss, that
uh they watched it like a hundred times, and and
everybody bought the fact that he didn't. He did not
say what everybody thinks. He said, wait, wait, she's literally
the boss. Yeah, yeah, my girlfriend, she is my boss.
She's she's the boss, tough man. It used to be

(05:28):
she wasn't the boss, and then like in the last year,
she became the boss. And I'm not sure how I
feel about that. I'm formulating the opinions speak love on
the street. Yeah on the street. No, but you you
were saying that you were about to have a get
rebar mitzvah. Oh so for those take on the on
the Instagram, he is constantly the host of various rap events,

(05:51):
various various events. He's like the m C of mcas
and I thought, since I'm gonna get bar miss it
again that he could MC for the second time. Now
it's like, and that's this like a recircumcision as well. Yeah,
I feel like they're all the things I got reave
it a lot of Okay, yeah, I may excuse myself

(06:16):
from the circumcision part, I understand, but but you know,
but up until that, up until the cutting. I'm there,
I'm your guy. Tonight we're enjoying whiskey with each other
and it's wonderful. I feel like we don't do this enough.
We don't. I just want to see how far I
can get without even introducing our guests. Was trying to
segue into our guests because I brought in. Some said

(06:38):
that he has an intro. But I'm just saying that.
You know, we usually just wrap a little bit for
like minutes. I get a man, you know how I do,
especially when boss building here. Yeah, I know my feet,
my nikes are up. Matter of fact, I'm gonna eat

(06:58):
some grapes right now. All, yes, exactly. Usually I'm just cool.
I'm just where's that voice coming from? There's somebody here.
I love when Bill is now year so I can
just violate all the rules. Oh and you brought the
ear rings backing stop, don't get me. I love the

(07:20):
ear rings and great at the job Bill, Yes he did.
He he added a lot out. Okay, roll out this,
roll out, red car. We have a black man from Austin, Texas.

(07:41):
Time out. Austin is officially my second favorite place on
early that I just like my requirements for city. Are
you know, I don't have the same standards that other
people do. Okay, Uh, if the record shopping is good, um,

(08:01):
the food truck activity is good. Right there, there you go.
That's all I need is legal. But you know, you
just make certain compromises. It's about to be coming. It's coming.
We hold out in Austin. We had a good time,
you know. And I actually believe that perhaps the idea

(08:22):
potus that might get the votes for the Democrats, or
I believe that you think he is from I think
he's the figure that will do it. Why are you
speaking in code because you know then you guys want
to get pinned down Jesus Christ exactly. I mean not yet,

(08:42):
you know, I'm just saying right now as it's looking,
there's a strong possibility that speak much more openly about anyway.
My second is my second. He's from my second favorite city,
uh in the US and the world. Um, he's been

(09:02):
doing it to death. Yes deaf d e a f
because his guitars allout uh since the agela put um
no seriously. In the tradition of of of the great
journeyman blues men uh such as James Marshall Hendricks, Buddy Guy,

(09:24):
Muddy Waters, all the Kings, b B King, Albert King,
Freddy King, Uh, you know Hallan Wolf, Champaign King. Yes,
you're going to all the Kings, our guests. Gary Clark Jr.
Has been making believers of the traditional rock and roll

(09:45):
sound UH with his major debut UH and the EP
Bright Light TP and the Black and Blue, which was
released in two thousand twelve. Um. I have seen the
man myself. I've played with him a few times. But
you know, I can attest that the future of of
just jaw dropping acts work is definitely good hands Lady

(10:09):
and Joe, and please welcome to Quest Love Supreme, the
one and only Gary Clark Jr. Motherfuck Hey, I appreciate
that I might need that as my alarm. So tell
us about Austin. No, you were you born in Austin, Texas? Yeah?
Is in Austin, Texas? All right? Now? I have this romantic,

(10:33):
you know, vision of the town and what not, like
food trucks, food trucks and record What was it like
pre gentrification? What was it like? Oh damn, damn. For
those that don't know, Gary Clark gave a look, So

(10:55):
tell me what what's the what's the deal with Austin? Like,
what was growing up in Austin? Like? Um, for me,
I grew up south side of Austin a little spot
called oak Kill, little neighborhood. I guess you called somewhat
of a suburb. I guess the south side of the suburb. No,
I mean yeah, I guess you could say that. A
bunch of houses with schools and parks and uh. But

(11:17):
it wasn't directly right in the city, you know what
I mean. Um, but you know, pretty pretty normal, somewhat
diverse neighborhood close to you know, uh, fifty minutes away
from downtown. But that was it was country, kind of
a little bit, riding bike, sports on the woods, doing
stuff like that. Basketball, nothing too wild. Yeah, fairly normal. Yeah,

(11:43):
somewhat somewhat normal. I mean it's Texas, it's the South,
so there's a little bit of that. It's you know,
I was gonna say, the one, the one, the one
physical trait that you have that's the opposite of all
the great axmen of history is you're tak Yeah, I'm
up here, man. You're very tall, like all the great
acts been. I feel like, you know, are under five

(12:09):
ten and they you know, I feel like maybe that's
their entry into you know, this makes up for well
I never heard I never thought about hype. But but short,
I mean it's about I mean I've heard about having
big hands where that can finish, finish it, finish, it
be extremely health thank you you're supposed to be doing

(12:32):
this hasn't an advantage, you know, I mean, um, probably
for other instruments too, but having having large hands would
make playing an instrument easier. I would know, this is
all I got. I haven't been looking at your hands.

(12:53):
I mean, you're but he's just a tall person, so
his hands are probably tall. Good King Albert King six four,
he is, he's a big yeah okay, I didn't yeah
in the king's but yeah, man, growing up in Austin
was none. What was your family situation into I grew

(13:16):
up in the house with three sisters, mom and pops.
Yeah boy right in the middle. O the only boy,
the only boy. Okay, yeah, what did your what did
your folks do with musicians as well? Not my pops.
I love my pops, but yeah, he you know, he

(13:41):
plays a little bit. I actually, uh, you know, when
I started realizing what was happening, he had some guitars
in the house. I ended up kind of breaking one.
But my dad, my parents, um just kind of normal jobs.
My dad sold anything. He sold everything from homes to
cars too, men's suits too, ladies shoes to um uh,

(14:04):
he did everything. He worked security for concerts and you know,
he was just he was he was doing whatever he
had to do to make sure that we had what
we needed. My mother was an accountant. Um perfect hustle
is working out like as of this a bit. Yeah,

(14:25):
my mom, she's been helping me out for a long time.
But yeah, and none of them are in music in
the church or none of that stuff. Uh no, no,
not really unique situation. Yeah, but I mean I got
family members. I got uncles who are musical, um, musicians,

(14:46):
you know, writers and m uh somebody used to play
with Steve Ravan if you're familiar with Austin Texas and
Texas Blue seeing W. C. Clark, Um, that's my cousin.
Used to play bass with them, great guitar players Peee
Craig and used to play with Johnny Otis Sugar Otis.

(15:06):
So yeah, that's so it was in my in My
family were not right at my house. You know what
I mean. Also weird enough the house band for um
they called them Blue Records. What's his name? Blow? Yeah,
a lot of this stuff well yeah, like Johnny always
was part of that. I didn't realize that until much later.

(15:28):
So how did you get interested in music? Like what
was the moment that the moment that made me. I
saw Michael Jackson five the Victory Tour or this is
Sheryl Crowe Michael Jackson. Yeah, so that's the first time

(15:50):
you met. That was the first time I saw Yeah,
but that was the first time I was crazy like
little did you know? How like your connection with her? Then?
Would you know? I can't come some years stop loving you?
You know we have the nosebleed seats, you know what
I mean, I see anything. But yeah, that was that

(16:13):
was what got me into music. You know, the light
showed the energy everything, you know. I got to kindergarten,
I was like, where's the stage at? Really I just
wanted to be in that. You know what is this?
You know what is these vibes? So you you chose
a path that it's rarely chosen, especially for like black musicians,

(16:34):
especially in growing up in the age of when hip
hop it's really developing and and you know, R and
B at the time when you're coming of age like
new jack swing and and hip hop are really fine
their footing and but yet um like blues music and
the way that you play. You know, one of the

(16:58):
one of the reasons why I'm really excited that you
hear is because I really don't know your story, but
I haven't seen you befomed at least somewhere between ten
to twelve times, like already had like your story painting
out my head that you know you're living off of
like pork and beans and sticking a bundles. But that's

(17:26):
a compliment. That's nice. He's a nice like, yeah, I
did it work, No, But you you you sing with
so much conviction and a type of I don't know
how to describe your voice, like it's it's not like

(17:47):
a voice I've ever heard singing before, but I felt like,
you know, like you've went through things and that sort
of thing. I mean that that was kind of what
the vibe I was lived in. I think he sings
like he plays the guitar, Like the guitar and his
voice are kind of a similar. Yeah, which started first
for you did you start playing first or singing first?

(18:07):
How did I started singing first? Yeah? I was. My
sister started, uh coming home with trophies for singing competitions,
and I had no trophies. So what's the age gap
between you and your siblings? Um? So uh um three

(18:28):
and a half years younger than my older sister. I
got a sister younger than me two years, and then
I got a baby baby sister who's younger about like
ten years. Okay cool? Yeah, so the older one, she
was the one that was singing. She could sing good,
she could sing great. She's you know, um, you can
play piano really well? Site read? Can you know do

(18:51):
all that? All that kind of stuff, And I just
I wanted some trophies. So I signed up for the
choir sixth grade, along with basketball. Used to get hell
all the time for showing up to basketball practice, like,
what's up singing something? Man? That was quir practice. That's right.
You can't be a music nerd and a school job man,

(19:13):
so raw, um we get a ball. No. I was
like a Dalmatian great Dane puppies, tall and awkward, tall,
you know, got no handles, super tall for no reason,
got no hops sad, just a waste. But your hands

(19:34):
are so big, just dunk. I got a nice fifteen
footer though, Okay, stop me, but that yeah, she told
her that wrong footer not injured? Right, Yeah, thank you?

(20:00):
What do you choose anyway? Work? Life? Where were we? Okay?
So just from seeing your sister when these trophies, that
was your inspiration. Yeah, that's why I thought I was
gonna you know, you're talking about being the time of
hip hop and R and being. I thought I was

(20:20):
gonna be a singer in an R and B group.
I had a group with this guy Robbie called Young
Soul and we had dance mallows and choreography and it
sounds like an j it was. It was terrible, but
we loved it. You know, who were you all kind
of modeling yourself after the group who wanted to be

(20:40):
boys to man as yet all? Yeah, all for one
MR groups. That was my joint. And I had that
guitar in it too, and I was like, I was like,
this goes together. I could do both. I could be

(21:01):
That was mystic, not me playing the guitar. He played guitar.
He was acoustic. He was like the knockoff baby face.
But I mean, but the I mean, but I thought
on baby face like everybody else, baby face start. Remember
he said that he was right now, he was on No,

(21:24):
he was on the face. He was on rabbit hole,
Gary in my back. Wait so wait, so that was
literally the video is literally the moment when you start
to think about picking up the guitar too. That video
you just referenced, Oh no, no, no no. Tito Jackson
watching old video takes Jackson maybe want to play your
Yeah wait, you said you broke your dad's Uh, similar

(21:50):
to Tito Jackson. There was no repercussions though, right, Uh
not like that. Okay, okay, so uh that's singing. But
when you were so what you were twelve when you
first started playing guitar or yeah, so what was your
first What was the first ax that you got? I

(22:11):
got an iban As r X twenty was like a
black electric guitar um too humbucker pickups a little maple
neck and I got a little tin wat um guitar
amp from Walmart or something and plugged in and everyone
starts with the the department store. It was like a

(22:32):
rock axe or something in the name of it. A
little tin Waite and all your stuff. Like you learned
to play, you pretty much start yourself, like you know,
lessons or anything like that. No, No, not really started
listening to the radio. Um, my dad when I first
got my guitar, my dad said, if you want to
play guitar for really, you gotta listen to Eric Clapton
in Santana. So you dropped off some records in my

(22:55):
room and said, um, good luck with that and do
that do your homework to but with that? Really? So,
what were the first uh records that you remember buying? Well,
not not for guitar education purposes, but just in your life.
What was your first album do you remember purchasing. My

(23:18):
first album that I remember purchasing was Immature Wow? Which
right now, dude? Which was which one? Was it? Which
the one with Feel the Phone? Feel the fun were here?
Did that come out? Five? I want to say they
sampled us. That was the first time we got sampled.

(23:40):
Sample one of them, one of them, join one of
them joints from solent treatment. Yea a matter of fact,
they did too, because the drums were sound treatment. But
they took the rosel. No, they did. I had that
album somehow. I don't know if it was the intention
and you remember it, so it must have been good. Okay, okay,

(24:04):
so this is Gary Club. Do you remember guy? Do
you remember when Immature came back as I am X. Yeah?
What a different member of something? No, it was the
same three niggas, but it was it was like, yeah,

(24:26):
because they had that jam and they did a cover
that actually did a cover of love Me in a
special way on that album that was straight up Yeah,
but I had that album, I had that out. Yeah,
you're my favorite R and B fan of all time. Yeah,
for real, your RMB knowledge puts me to shame. If
Marky's Houston knew that Gary Clark Jr. Like was it?

(24:49):
That's just I just don't think he would know that.
He probably would be off the wall. Yeah, yeah, that
was That was the first record I bought. Wow, that's
crazy dunking all the men. I don't want to say,
like Phoebe Hig Robert Johnson, He's like, no, I don't know.

(25:14):
At what point, at what point do you consider the
the genesis of where you are right now in your career? Like,
at what point are you who's putting you onto uh
Electric Lady Land, Who's putting you onto the first like
the Cream albums or Zeppelin or any of those things.

(25:36):
So assuming that, assuming that, I mean, I'm assuming that
you look at Jimmy Vonka, right. That was yeah, well
that all happened. Uh. Um I lived down the street
from a girl named Eve Monsey. Um. I met her
in third grade. White girl came from Houston, Jewish girl.
She came out and was like she came, I told

(25:58):
you so she was playing guitar like a year before
me and and her. Her dad worked on video games
and he would put video games in a in all
these different venues around town. And so when he was
working on him, he had him in the garage and

(26:19):
they had a basketball goal. So all the kids from
the neighborhood would go over there and play arcade games,
you know, and you start hooping or whatever. And then uh,
you've had a band and it was like, um three
piece band, her and a couple of other girlfriends and
they would be playing this rock and roll stuff. And
you know, she had a black stratocaster and a Fender

(26:41):
twid Hunter white am you know, read knobs on it.
And I thought it was the coolest thing ever, you know,
So I'm playing basketball and I'm hearing this. So I
ended up getting interested in, like, uh, what she was doing.
It was just like the coolest thing in the neighborhood.
So I just I just became interested in that. You
I've been listening to my boys two men and working

(27:02):
on my dance steps and writing my you know, my
R and B hits, and then I was like, you know,
let me see what's happening over here. So that's seeing
her having guitar and thinking about Tito Jackson how much
I love that, and you know, uh, it's the first
time in which you know someone's making the Jackson reference.

(27:24):
He really deserves it because people don't begging them up
as much as they should. Yeah, So it was all
that kind of all that kind of went together. And
I remember that they had that, um the Jackson movie,
The American dream Man. Listen that is a classic watching
every four yeahs Busty TV exactly, So they had they

(27:46):
had a soundtrack for that, and at one point they
had a live version of them doing Who's Who's Who's
loving You? But but they did um uh Isaac Hayes
walking by and so Tito's playing at Jermaine is also,
let it be noted, Jermaine is killing that baseline. So

(28:11):
that's weird. That affected me as a as a sampler.
That was a well known public enemy sample. So that's
how I got, you know, into that. But you just
hearing it first generation without even the references. That's crazy
that you picked up on that. Yeah, I was like, man,
this is this all goes together. I'm gonna start hanging

(28:34):
out down the street and you figured out how to
play this guitar. Man. Wow. Baby Face was also in
the audience that night. He mentioned that on our show,
I'm gonna do a lot of references to pass. Yeah,
I'm own reference center. By the way, two shorts parents
were accountants as well. I'm just I'm going with the thing. Yeah. Well,

(28:57):
I know, I know that you weren't built over night.
So how many hours do you recom that it took
you to really really master I mean, because I mean
the right word Rolling Stones declaring you as Operation Next
and the future and yes you you definitely have the

(29:21):
chapter that ship. Like I was again jaw dropped, like
how what was your practice technique? Like, uh, my practice
technique was I quit going to school, you know what,
I just quit I would show up the first period
and someone would be like, hey man, let's go play guitar.

(29:43):
I got some herb and we just dip, you know,
and we were just you know, I was introduced to
Grateful Dead and and you know, people had Muddy Waters
records and it was it was just I would just
go do that instead of doing my school works. Austin

(30:03):
started changing, okay, so all day. You know, when I
got to be about fourteen, I played My first gig
was a sophomore in high school. I guess, and I mean,
you know what it is like. You start getting gigs
and then it becomes get one gig, two gigs three

(30:24):
four nights a week, five nights, and that's one nights
a week, four hours. That's where the domino started. That's
that's from fourteen on. From fourteen on, that was it.
And your parents was cool. They like, okay, they were
okay with it. They were okay with it until I
started getting phone calls from the school where I was.

(30:47):
Because Spoteen is the beginning of high school. So it's like, yeah,
I was there, and then I just ghosted or did
you like? I ended up finished. I had to do Saturday.
I had to do after school. I had to go
before I had to do all that stuff. I had
it and completing my junior year of high school because
I lost it. I was They used to call me
hot wire. I used to take my parents car, sneak
out in the middle of night, go down to the clubs.

(31:11):
This is what we want to know. Wait a minute,
you were hot your parents They called me how ward.
I just used to have a key and put it
down the street. It's better nickname than keys. Yeah, yeah, right,
happen once, you know, shame or me doing it twice
though the belt. Now this happened multiple times. This is

(31:35):
three or four times a week, and get out and
go to the club. You would get away with it.
I would get I would sneak out of the window.
How about the window, and I would wait till my
pops would be sitting He'll be watching Star Trek or something,
and he would start to fall out. Is it because
they were too busy looking at the girls. I don't

(31:56):
know what he but like your sisters, I meant that
in that way. Sorry, your sisters like pay let me
see when I say electric Blue his real name or
something like that, just correctly, how did you get past them?

(32:16):
But I was just focusing on what it was on
the girls, your sisters. Yeah, I was. I was up,
I was playing guitar. You were good at it. I
was good. I was on. I was on my school.
Yeah I was. But you know I popped in one time.
Where did you go? I would go to Spockleed Joe
Generic Ball, I'll go to Anton's, I'll go to my

(32:38):
friend's houses and we would you know, they would have
house parties and bands will be playing, there'd be DJs
and so you know, I might not have been able
to go, but I made myself able to go. I
would they normally have given you permission to play these
parties or was it like okay, no, no, based on

(32:59):
this is the wrong crowd, or based on like are
they seeing you and knowing that, oh, he's going to
be our future. No, I'm not saying that every sun
has to you know, M do that for his parents.
But no, not at all. It was it was a distraction.
You know, I started, you know, I'm sneaking out, I'm
leaving the house. I'm smoking weed, all of him. I'm

(33:21):
still in the car. They don't they can't find me
in your best life. Yeah exactly. You know what I mean,
I'm getting calls from the school. I'm not present, I'm
you know, all this type of stuff and h So
now they weren't really with it at all, you know,
but um my mom made a compromise with me. She
was like, look, I can't take this away from me

(33:41):
because I know how much you love it. But what
you can do is if you can sneak you out
and go run around and play for all those drunks
down in six year, you can play for Jesus. So
you can go playing the church, the church us. But
did they let you ask grinding the church? Or are
you just doing straight up gospel? But who know? I

(34:03):
mean the thing is that I would also think that Austin,
Texas was rather open minded too different experiences. I mean,
I want to I want well, I mean I was
torn in Austin by nine four, so he's about ten
years old. So yeah, in church. Yeah, I'm just saying

(34:26):
that by this point, like I would think that they
would have been open to it. I once went to
a free jazz church. What that like? Imagine like the
last the last, the last era of like Coltrane's life
for it and Jesus. Yeah. Okay, wow, Yeah, there's a

(34:47):
go Go church in d C. Chuck Yeah, yeah, I'll
pray due to Chuck Brown. Those rain you know about
to go go? I know a little bit, okay, Texas,
but I can't. We know what's up down man, it's

(35:09):
traveled the world you know about at all? Actually slight
slight uh detour in this conversation since we're talking about Austin.
All right, you gotta you gotta put me down with
what are your alright? Now, give me your top five
Barbie keep joint. Does the name Sam's Beef mean anything

(35:36):
to you? Oh? Okay, okay, I'm relieved. Sam's Beef is
like Austin's version of Freddy's from House of Cards. Okay, okay,
got it like a shack. It's not a chain. That's
not a chain. Na. It's just like even as even
as even as uh slogan, you don't need no teeth

(35:57):
to eat my beef. You don't need teeth. Yeah, but
it's like a backport, no need teeth. You know, flies
come on and I don't even mind. You know, it's
just so bad. But I didn't know that was super
authentic or not you know, I was. I would like
to think that it was like the authentic little that's

(36:19):
the question authentic. Where does Austin come in the barbecue
scheme of things when it comes to city, So it's
Austin like the data Man Louis. I think in America. St.
Louis is the barbecue rib you know, is hard. It's
different Kansas City though I don't well, Kansas City got

(36:39):
smoked for St. Louis. I don't know city barbecue coming
from something from North Carolina barbecue more so it's like
like pool Port. So like when people and around that
way when they say like barbecue, they specifically mean puled Port,
so like and I'm in the east side of Carolina.
So for our joint base is a vinegar base. So

(36:59):
then when you go to the west side, like where
the mountains is that they use like a tomato base.
And we don't funk with them because we'd be like,
we're making We're making Slappy Joe's barbecue, so fuck them.
But the vinegar base is good. So like, what's the

(37:20):
what's the awesome? Give me your top five? Um Man
Sam's Okay, I used to go to Sam's all the time.
There's a spot called the Barbecue that are like, um uh,
Terry Blacks is another one. Um, if you're going for
like some fancy barbecue, it's a spot called Lambert's. I

(37:43):
got a lot of love for them because they fed
me every Thursday. Okay, me a couple of drinks. Uh
was that four? Um? Let me see, let me see
me see because it's been is any good? Because how
the Stubbs rate? Because I like Stubbs as a music

(38:04):
venue because I went so much and I had it
out the same make the barbecue sauce, yeahcues. But I
get the feeling that you know, Stubbs in Republic and
all those spots are like what for Philly cheese steaks?
Like yeah, like one spot that makes it two hours.

(38:29):
I was a long story ahead, like two hours in
line for Republic Barbecue. I thought, Man, there has to
be an underground spot that gym steaks because it's a line.
But it's a bullshit. Don't go to Philly and eat
a gym. But you know, you know you've seen the
rats all. If you want to, you need the quest

(38:49):
love text message. It's like four pages long. It rates
all the cheese steakery in all the Philadelphia from like
like Kobe Beefery to like get old whatever. You might
get robbed at this place. Yeah, but you can only
go to this place at this time because if now
you might die, Like it's like that guy and if
you're white, definitely don't go to this place like it says.

(39:09):
This is like anybody tells you exactly what to order,
order it, you should. That should be your next book.
I gotta give you, you know, I gotta keep people
safe for you. I'm being feeling a Minute'm gonna hit
you up. Yeah, like gold ish people. But don't get
this ship because you are you are a rock star, skinny,
so I don't even think you you would thrown down,

(39:31):
but you might have a fast it's got big hands, yea.
At this point, are you are you said you were fourteen?

(39:53):
Are you even making demos or recording the like what's
your songwriting process? Like are you even writing songs at
this point? Or you're just playing? Like what's the music
of the day? What is the music of the day
if you are playing at if you're playing in a
blues band in Austin, Texas, like, what are the what

(40:14):
are the go to songs that I should know the
blues everything. He's just one five. You gotta have you
gotta have a for me. It's like you gotta have
a a slow a slow blues, major blue, the slow

(40:36):
minor blues. You gotta have you red house. Yeah, red
houses is something, but are like something like BB King
three o'clock blues. Okay? Um, how would where would like
something like? Um like pride and enjoyed by Stevie Baun?
Where would that fall? Pride and joy? It's kind of

(40:56):
a it's kind of a unspoken rule that if you're
in Austin because you don't touch it, can I can you?
Can you? Are you able to school us on Stevie
at least mean personally, I don't I need to know
more about Stevie Reborn. I know that he's a god,
but I don't know why he's a god or anything like.

(41:17):
Are you able to explain what makes him god or
the ship? I've never heard him be described as god.
But I think the thing that that people love about
Stevie Ray Vaughan is is, um, there's this there's this
kind of Americana thing about him. Uh, there's this fierce

(41:41):
blues thing about him that you know, he gives props
up to Albert King in all the grace and then
he's got this rock and roll fierce uh thing about him.
And if you're if you're coming from Texas and you
play guitar, man for somebody to make it out of Austin,
Texas and guitar, it was kind of a big deal.

(42:03):
And just tone. I think the thing that makes him
the guy is the tones that he got and out
of a stratocaster. You know, I don't think anybody had
heard that powerful. That's strong of a tone coming from
from a guitar like that. I think it's been it's

(42:25):
just tone. I don't know, man, I have no no, no,
you're doing good. You're doing good. That's that's enough. Yeah,
that's the answer, because I mean we me and my son.
You try to play pride enjoy it on guitar, ye roll.
We used to suck it up on that. I was like,
this supposed to be pretty hard to play. It's not easy. Ship.
Also he was white, obviously, Yeah, I guess we should

(42:46):
say that that's what men get to. Okay, So when
I watch when I watch cats like bb King and
I mean, I'm gonna take Hendricks out the equation, we
could take Hendricks out, and we could probably take um
in Chicago. Yeah I'm not not John, so alright, taking

(43:11):
those two out. But as far as blue blues guitar
playing and it coming from it leaving the the Mississippi Delta,
and like who is credited or who is the definitive

(43:32):
electric blues guitar player, and and how can you tell
who's the real deal and who's not the real deal?
Like if I if I were watching BB King all right,
for example, when he does it blues, he'll stick to
one note, so he'll play the notes, see, but he'll

(43:54):
play various ways various like you know, textures to it.
But you know, I know that a lesser expert would
be more impressed with speed or you know, noise and
really not So how can you determine who is a

(44:19):
righteous blues man versus he? All right? And I'm not
trying to make you uh, because he's kind of both
of them. But there's like the shredder blues man and
then the slow hand blues man, and I think like
there's a difference, right, So what's more important? Like no

(44:39):
one as me as a drummer like you know I'm
not a gospel drummer, but people respect my slowness in
my my pocket. That speaks enough. But you can chop
with you on not with the bones but no. But
I'm just saying that, you know, is there for you?

(45:03):
Is it more important for slow hand blues or is
it like about shredding and and volume and and fullness.
I think it's it goes down to does it make
the hair stand up on your arms? Does it give

(45:23):
you chills? Does it make you feel like you want
to cry? Does it make you feel like you want
to scream at the top of your long does it
make you feel something? Um, I think you can do both.
I think you can play. You can shred and and
do all that, and I think you could play to
the slow hand bb king thing. But when you hit
it note and you feel it and and you undenially

(45:48):
your eyes roll back in the back of your head,
if if, if something makes me do that, I'm like,
that's just what is That's what music is supposed to do.
I don't care if you're a guitar player, don't care,
a drummer, don't care you uh uh, whatever genre you know,
If you sing a note and it's like whoa just

(46:11):
so just so for context, like what is um, So,
give us an example of somebody that would be considered
us looks at a slow hand blues player versus like
a shredder, like with a lot of decks theory, um,
a slow hand blues player. I would have to say
somebody like Derek Trucks. It's somebody who plays, you know,

(46:32):
kind of slide guitar and somebody that I think is
ofthening when it comes down to doing it, do what
it's supposed to do. On the other on the other hand,
when it comes down to shredd, and I think Eric
Gales can do that, you know, I think that he
could shred and you know people freak out, you know

(46:54):
what I mean, and actually really feel it and not
are just impressed by that super fast bro. Who's an
unsung hero in your in your mind? Like, who's the
guitarist that you know is a maverick but you know
hasn't either gotten a deal just wanted to stay local
or just kind of behind the scenes, Like is there

(47:15):
a guitarist that you know that's just like yeah, I
would have to go back to Eric Gails. He did
we did a show together and he opened up for
us at Austin. I was like, this is a bad idea.
Is he Is he still alive or is he? Yeah?

(47:35):
It was like two weeks ago. You know, it's weird.
I'll say that anytime I've even done shows with Eric
Gail's on on the bill, it's weird because I feel
like he has to pay his bills, like doing the
side man stuff. Like I think, uh, wait, which is

(47:56):
we're talking about Eric Gal like old jazz cat Eric
Eric Gails. Um, no, he's he's from Memphis. Okay, now
there's an Eric Kale. That's I think I'm thinking about
your area. We're talking about a lefty young guy who's
not who you're thinking about. No, no, no, I'm thinking about. Yes,
he's a shredder. Sometimes when um uh limon Color Bassis

(48:20):
burning No sugar Hill Bassis. Also Doug do Sometimes if
Doug Wimbush is on a gig, he'll hire Eric Gails
as his guitar. So back when Doug was the m
D for Lauren Hill. Like again, like I never really
got seen him him in his true context maybe like

(48:43):
once or twice, But normally when I see Eric Gails,
he's either like backing up a rap group or doing
something totally It's like he gotta paid his bills and
really can't. I can't get loose with it. But I
mean he seems happy, so you know what I mean.
I mean he came through and crust. Like I was
telling everyone, I was like, this is a terrible idea.

(49:06):
So when the opener crushes the headliner, no one needs
that ship. Do you feel do you feel this unspoken
pressure to live up to the myth of of obviously

(49:27):
the J word, because I'm certain for a lot of people,
what is it you never happened, won't ever happen, You're
not gonna You're not gonna live up to you're gonna happen.
You're a badass motherfucker. Guys saying Jimmy, Jimmy, Yeah, I

(49:54):
like you came even me. My fault was I thought, oh,
guitar black guy, all right, let me see he rises
up to the level of Jimmy. And but the thing was,
it was like the way the way that you did,

(50:15):
I just caught you on a fucking excellent night because
even my guitar player his mouth was open, like when
you did a gig. Okay, So this is right. When
Doyle and show Crow were like, you gotta see this
guy before, so you weren't signed just yet. It was

(50:36):
like a small bar. It was like a small out
of the way bar in the village that you just
happened to be at. Um. I think it was Falent time,
so maybe it was like two thousand um, but this
is just you and a trio. But it was I,
you know, and I know him the king of you know,

(50:58):
hyperbole and oh my god, is the next thing. But
even Rolling Stone, who was with me that night, when
they reviewed that show, then they were like, you know,
this guy's next and to prove it, I mean, they
gave him the lead review. When I saw that, Um,
the the EP got the lead review and Rolling Stone,

(51:21):
I was like, damn not since when I was ten
years old. I mean I've been reading Rolling Stone like
all my life, and I know the power of like
the lead review. And when Prince an unknown Prince got
the leave review for a Dirty Mind four and a half, like,
I was like, wow, this this rock magazine which has

(51:43):
no connections to like this isn't I want to be
your lover that you know? This is like an unspoken,
unproven uh, musician. They gave him the lead review, so
this must be some ship. They gave you the same treatment.
So I'm like, do you feel is there an unspoken pressure? Now?
I must like Eric Clapton told me that I was

(52:04):
the best you know, modern blues guitarists that he's ever seen,
and you know, for a lot of us that aren't
really you know, in the vocabulary of rock music or blues, Like,
is there do you feel like a pressure to live
up to that? Or um? I don't feel any pressure.

(52:26):
I don't feel any pressure to live up to that necessarily,
but I think about it when it's brought up. You know,
how many times do you journalists ask you like these
types of questions like yeah, but I think the thing
for me is is I've always kind of not said

(52:48):
much about it, but to not sound um cocky or
not to not to sound like I know, I know
that I got into this thing not to be in
last place nice. So yeah, I put that on myself,

(53:11):
and regardless of other people, say, you know, I want
to I want to be I wanna be you know,
I want to get a chance to jaim with you,
you know, talking about like some real ship. I want
to be with the motherfucker's with this ship, and I'm
not gonna be okay with just being like I didn't

(53:33):
get into this, Okay, that's why I wanted. I was like, okay,
you definitely play like that. Then you know some people
are like, you know, man, shucks, thanks anyway, but you know,
just the way that you played. Uh. And again, it's
like the way that blues rock has been defined and redefined,
I mean to the point now like where we just

(53:55):
basically thought like, okay, if you all guitar guides from
now or are just going to be white dudes, and
if a black one comes along, then you know it's like,
oh maybe maybe not, but you know, you were definitely
the real I think there was pressure also in Lenny
to live that when that come into But the thing
is like his Lenny's Lenny's acts work was never to

(54:19):
that level, but because he looked the part. You know,
I'm sure a lot of people expected that, you know,
when really it's Craig that's the axment of it. But
you know it's I missed that on Lenny Kravis episode. Yeah.
And and plus you know, especially with black people, I
feel like a lot of our associations with rock. Like

(54:42):
one of the one of the main reasons why I
wanted to do the See with Cody was because it
was a rock song that wasn't a rock song, because
half the time it's like, you know, the rappers to
be thinking about smells like teen Spirit, like some head
Bang or or like iron Man, like that's our rocking spirit.

(55:05):
And there it's it's such a it's such a vast
you know, vocabulary to it that a lot a lot
of the world doesn't know because a lot of us
just aren't in on the playing field anymore. Do you
feel do you see the rock tune? Is that what
your the Cody stuff? Yeah? I wouldn't, but why not?

(55:29):
I don't know. I mean he literally named it rock
and roll. I mean, I mean what okay for me?
For me, it was I didn't want to, you know,
if we were gonna go there, Like when Quincy Jones
try to get beat It out of Michael Jackson, he
literally said, I want you to do your version of

(55:51):
my Sharona, and Michael was like, okay, I'll be back
in three days and then came back with beat It,
which is you you know, and and and anything that
Mike has done after that, you know, like the dirty
Diana like slashes everywhere to me, like I, you know,

(56:13):
I liked I like black. My favorite Rolling Stones album
is probably their worst review joint, which is Black and Blue.
You know. It's just like there's a certain rock that
I like that's not that doesn't have twelve exclamation points
behind it. So beast Burden, that's some girls. Yeah, the

(56:34):
Black and Blue albums like that, that was there. Okay,
we're gonna try and get funky a little bit, but
it didn't work that way. But I like sloppy stuff,
so you know, I've never gotten to the stalls they
catalog like that. I know he is, but it don't
make us feel bad. Just teach us. You know. Sometimes
you just you don't you don't know. So yes, anyway,

(56:56):
now I gotta go back to I gotta go back
to what when did you first start songwriting? What was
your like the first recording? Um, my first recording was
a song that I recorded with but my friend Evens
called bar Soul Blues and uh, it was just kind
of a shuffle blue shuffle and it was me her

(57:20):
my cousin Ryan, and um, I can't remember my sister
playing drums or not, but she pays. Yeah, my little
sister plays dry. We got she got a drunk kit
um the same year that I got a guitar. My
cousin Worm got the base the same year, and so
we all had the family band, and my sister I

(57:42):
played keys and and did all that too. So my
pops would try and put us together to perform for
the family. And we used to call him Joe, and yeah,
it was like the whole thing was Joseph. Are any
of your sister still involved in music? Uh, they're involved
in music, but not trying to go get it like

(58:04):
I was, you know. Um. But yeah, So I'll recorded
on a remember those little karaoke thing like a too, yes,
like like a little single Loodian things. So I used
to record that way. So we might we put one
mic in the room, like hanging off the you know,
the garage hanging down the middle of the room, and
so we would record and and uh, since you couldn't

(58:25):
sing it the mic, I would go back and flip it,
you know, put another tape in and put on the
B side or whatever, play the thing and then singing
the vocal over it and go do some overdubs and
keep flipping tapes. It sounded like ship But that was
how we recorded stuff. You know, how did your how
did words spread around Austin? And it's Austin the only
place that you can really have reached. Are there surrounding

(58:49):
cities in Texas that you can also have a good
musical fan base. Yeah, I mean it's Austin, just the
only blue city. No, it's a little question. Uh that
was good. Now you can go to San Antonio, the

(59:11):
San Marcus is a couple of places to play. I
went down to the Valley and played um down there.
Up to Dallas for worth. Uh what about Houston or yeah,
you're to go down to Houston. The blues community is
pretty small down there. So if you if there's another
blues guy, another blues band on the scene that say,

(59:32):
hey man, you need to book this guy down in Texas,
and there's like a whole blues society and so everyone
hooks each other up. And so yeah, I would run
down to Houston and Dallas with my parents. And now,
besides those cities that are named the Captain obvious ones,
All right, what is the rest of the Texas environment,

(59:52):
Like the city was I don't really mess with it.
Even to this day hasn't established a cigarette. I mean,
you gotta get from point A to point B. But
there's some places you just don't stop. Ye. I mean,
for the largest state in the United States, I would
like to know if there's more than seven cities or

(01:00:16):
that are welcoming or look, man, anytime I'm going out west.
Anytime I'm going out west, um Ah, I get stopped Sweetwater,
I gets stopped going out Well, every time I get
stopped and pulled out a car, that's a whole situation.
Every time. Really, it's like that. And she heading out

(01:00:38):
east towards Louisiana. You don't stop. You just keep it moving,
get past the bridge. Even to this day, when you
get in the car, the whole goal is just just
make sure you got enough gas to get past, and
you just keep it moving right up. Niggas needs a
new green book. You write about it. It's real. Not

(01:00:59):
when we even too were like like going through Texas
like we had to. We stayed one night in got
bent Wood. I want to say it was I can't
remember name, but basically it was like a hotel and
a Walmart and McDonald's and like we didn't. What else
you need? That's party racial. We stayed. We just stayed

(01:01:25):
in and like I called my hunger. I was like,
so we in this town. She's like, oh my god,
she's no straight up. She's like, oh no, don't work
around out there. I was like, damn, but it's still real.
Still from somebody from Carolina that's a big deal. Yeah, yeah,
it's still real. Okay, Texas. They literally Yo, you mentioned

(01:01:49):
your friend Eve. This is the same Eve who had
the band in the beginning, right, So do you guys
still make music together or what is up with her?
Because you mentioned her twice in music references? Um, yeah,
we're still We're still cool. Um, actually we stopped. I
got fired from her band, Like he did something. Now

(01:02:12):
what you do know? I didn't. I didn't do anything.
They just, you know, respectfully. They Yeah, they decided that
my services will no longer needed. I'm going to ask
you because this is what I don't know about you,
because at one point, at one point, the guy that
was hosting the party kind of looked at me like, okay,

(01:02:34):
let's wrap it up. What is no because again I
can listen to you do fourteen minutes solo. How many courses?
So we're doing the blues? How long am I supposed
to run through the format before I do that role
where I let you know, Okay, Gary, it's time to

(01:02:56):
get to the last verse of the weekend. You know what,
A few years ago, you would have had to stop me,
You would have had to go do that role, and
I would have snapped out of it and gone, all right,
let's get back into the first. Um. A lot of
times what happens when I do that is I don't
know what the next verse is. Okay, so I'm just

(01:03:18):
buying time, Aline. I don't remember the worst of my
own ship. But the thing is, like, I feel like
you're you're not microwave. You're such a slow cook that
I'm willing to give you six rounds and unspoken six
rounds of stuff to let you get into it. So
I never know when you've made your statement when it's

(01:03:39):
time to like in the song, right right, Yeah, I
don't know either. I always feel like you keep going.
I feel like I could keep There's more, there's more,
there's more, there's more. I could keep going till I
pass out. But um, I've become more refined due to
uh fines and police showing up. I've become more refined.

(01:04:04):
Is it the same drum que did you give everybody?
Or is that just there's a certain language that I
have that the Roots instantly know when it's time to
wrap something up or that sort of thing. But that's
only us playing together for decades. Um. There's also the
Roots television film, right, which is like Crank Crank. I
felt like I felt like he gave me one of

(01:04:26):
those that the grammar because because the thing was the
thing was is that? Yes, shout out to Keith McFee
the most the most erotic. Yeah, his his stopwatchers have stopwatchers,

(01:04:47):
Keith big Fees, the guy that right now he's planning
like the Grammy jam in two thousand and twenty three
years from now. That's that's what Keith is. So you
know he in his mind, he's like, okay, he did
a seconds. You know, we we still got uh you know,

(01:05:09):
we got chucked you on the side of the stage.
You ready run the jewels anybody, And I'm trying to
let you know that like fine wine takes it like
just orgasm. Yeah, that's what we called it, right, But
pretty much Keith's one of those guys that like lose
his mind after like a three minute so so I

(01:05:30):
have to you know, I kind of got that. I
was like, all right, what's the longest solo you ever dig?
I think I got clocked that somewhere around twelve fourteen minutes.
It's Maggot Brain. Yeah, Maggot Bright rock and roll. I

(01:05:51):
think Funky delic is rocked. Yeah. Of course absolutely should
have put that in earlier, but yeah, absolutely. How did
you go about in terms of, like, after you're playing
all these bands and like kind of doing demos and stuff,
how did you go about getting your first deal? Oh?

(01:06:13):
I was, I was. I was doing some shows with
Dog Brandhall. We've been doing some stuff. He gave me
some work. I was kind of how do you hook
up with Doyle for the list? Really? I mean, truth
be told, Doyle bram Hall was or could have been.

(01:06:38):
I could be stepping over my boundaries. He was. He
could have been the Gary Clark Jr. Of the early nineties.
He was a guy that, like again Eric Clapton gave
the gave the the endorsement of life, the co sign
of time for Yeah, for Doyle um back and like

(01:07:00):
uh said, this guy's amazing. Blues guitarists can do everything
and sing and all those things. This guy is the
next thing. Doyle and the Roots actually signed the geff
and at the same time. And Doyle, Um, if you're
familiar with there's a film call Before the Music Dies
that you should watch. Um. Doyle is a big part

(01:07:22):
of that. The guy that made that movie. The guy
that made that movie. Um really did it because of
Doyle's situation. Doyle was supposed to be the second coming
of of blues guitar ology and it just didn't work out. Um.
He did draft after draft with with records, and you know,

(01:07:42):
he eventually got dropped by his label and then he
had to play pay the bill. So I think mainly
as a session guy, I never knew his like the
mythology of he should have been a guy like basically
it's like reverse Jimi Hendrix is like if he started
out as Jimi Hendrix and just ended up playing with
Little Richard that sort of thing. So um, but you
know he married Susannah Melboyne h princess, right, So that's

(01:08:08):
how we got to know him. In the very short
lived Edith Funker project with Erica and Susannah and Wendy
and Lisa and everybody. And it was during that time,
that Edi Funker period that I was asking Doyle like,
whoa who do you know that's like next? And that's
when he first told me that, you know, his kid

(01:08:30):
from Austin, Garret Clark Jr. So when uh, I think
Sheryl Crow and Doyle they were torn together, told me like,
you gotta come and see this guy play. And it
was that I think Brooklyn Bowl was the first time
I seen you, uh play. I don't know, was that

(01:08:50):
your own set or was that with Doyle or you
know what? I don't remember as long ago. Yeah, I
don't remember honestly. So you were playing with Doyle? And
then how did that go lead to a label situation
for you? Uh? Uh? I was you weren't an Archangels?
Were you in that band? I'm not making a joke.

(01:09:11):
Was he know you? Oh? No, I was like I
was maybe nine, Okay, No, I wasn't. I wasn't it,
but you know you know about that band of course. Yeah,
Charlie Sexton, Tommy Shannon. Yeah, um so I was doing
this struggling, starving artist thing and I'm sitting there in

(01:09:33):
a house full of candles and not by choice porking
beans in the spoon. Ye okay, So so just so
happens Like a little bit later, Dug gets me a
calling and he says, Uh, this isn't promise, but you know,
I've been talking to Clapton and I think he wants

(01:09:54):
you to come out to do this Crossroads festival. And
if you're not familiar, it's a big guitar thorn, lot
of guitar solos, a lot of the greats um come
out and they do this big festival thing and people
jam at the end or whatever. And um, being a
guitar player, I watched them, you know the DVD s.
I knew what was up, and so I was like
really and um. So next thing I know, I get

(01:10:17):
a letter in the mail. Cool, You're invited to come
to Claps and Crossroads. I get on the plane. I
got like twenty dollars in my pocket. I show up
there and like what year is This is two and
ten and so I show up to rehearsal next time
do the show? Um and uh. In the middle of

(01:10:40):
the show, this whole sound goes out in Toyota Park.
The front of the out sound. I'm in the middle
of my thing. I'm the new guy. Nobody knows who
the hell I am, and I'm seeing people booing down
ship and screaming. I'm just seeing this, and Doyle goes, hey, man,
the sounds out, just keep doing anything. When they come
around and do this, uh, you know, you can come

(01:11:02):
back into your verse. We're trying to work this thing out.
And so I'm just freaking out. I'm just playing. No
one's hearing me. I keep seeing this. I'm like, damn,
I came all the way here to Chicago and sucked
it up. And so it just so happens at the
end of my solo, where you know, I started wrapping
it up, all the sound comes back on. Everybody freaks
out and it becomes this huge moment. It becomes like

(01:11:24):
one of the most exciting moments of the whole thing.
It's not because I didn't anythink epic. So anyway, I
got um hanging out backstage and I'm like, man, that's
that was terrible. Blah blah blah um Tom Wally Andy Oliphant,
who used to work at Warner at the time, approached
me and gave me their business cards and said, uh,

(01:11:44):
we're thinking about doing something with you. And I did
that whole thing and ran around in different spots. He
ended up wrong with them and he's not. The whole
thing is different. But um, yeah, so that that was
that was it just being backstage thinking that was terrible,
and they're like, what do you think about rocking with Warner?

(01:12:05):
What was that like? Like? Were you apprehensive about signing
the deal or what? Yeah, of course I was a
lot of visual. Did you get to talk to Clapton
at all? No. I walked up to him and I
was really excited and I said, hey, man, thank you
for inviting me. You know, you have no idea and
he just go thanks for coming, walked off and his

(01:12:27):
little boat shoes and shorts and yeah. So when you
first started recording, um, your first record, what was it
like going from I guess just kind of you know,
just kind of just the shoes string, you know, budget
ship to actually now what we were able to do
differently in terms of the sound. Yeah, Um, I thought

(01:12:49):
I was, but I was working with people who I
won't necessarily name, and I didn't like it, but these
were producers or yeah, I didn't. I didn't were the
ep or for Black and Blue. For both, I was like,
real talk, no, no, no, it turned out to be

(01:13:14):
all right. But I just I was in a place
where I felt like I was free and creative and
I wanted to express everything and have all my my
all my ideas fully realized. And there was this kind
of like, yeah, let's get to it. Let's do it
like this way, let's get to it, you know, and

(01:13:34):
I would present ideas and that's boring. I'm like, well,
only played for thirty seconds, man, let me let me
get to the change. Yeah, And so I didn't like
feeling like I couldn't move in my own pace, you know,
being from Texas. If we get twenty seconds on the crosswalk,
I'm taking all of them. So that was like, that
was that was my mentality. But as I get older,

(01:13:57):
you know, I understand and I had to learn, you know,
I had to learn, but I was uncomfortable at first.
I didn't like it. I didn't like anybody tell me
what to do because I started playing music because I
was the only place where nobody could tell me what
to do. So I was like, well, what the hell
am I doing? Yeah? Business, but you know, it's all
good little maturity and you know, taking a step back

(01:14:19):
and understand that it's not just about you. That was
a real reality check, you know. So it was sunny Uh,
Sunny Slind the album which you felt that you had
your control in your your true voice over. Yeah, I
think so. Well. I just wanted to try. I wanted
to be able to have I want to be able
to make an album where I'm like this, I'm fully

(01:14:41):
responsible whether it works or not. I know what my
strengths and my weaknesses are, and I've never been able
to test him, and I want to do that. Like
I said, I didn't get into this to be last place,
and I didn't get into this to only give a
quarter of what I think that I can give. So
that was where that came from. How did yeah, because
that's you If I'm not saying that's you're playing the

(01:15:02):
guitar on the Fire We Make? Uh? How did that
come about? Delicia Keys and Drake Record? How did that? Uh?
That was Miguel I mean not Miguel Maxwell Maxwell. He
hooked that he hooked all up boy Fire We Make
was at Lea Maxwell, My bad. I thought wastle Man.

(01:15:24):
I meant I said I mean to say said that
was the unbreakable. I don't know, I didn't I miss that.
I remember being there. Yeah, how did that session come about? Um?
At least your keys asked me to do um uh

(01:15:44):
an event with her No child alive wait, no child,
black child left behind black black but the name of
her black child. Yeah yeah, and then the black that's
the party, but keep it child alive is organizations organization. Key.

(01:16:09):
We was all right except for you, Steve right. So
we did a version of while my guitar Gentley weaves
and and so we kind of linked up that way.
It was pretty cool. And she asked me to be
a part of this this uh our record call me
up and went up to the studio here in New York.
And uh do people do when when guests tell you

(01:16:31):
to do their recordscause you're you're on Donald uh Gambinos
album me and your mom admit, so I just laughing
at something. But I'm just saying that high Bill, how
are you doing, Billy? No? But is it when guests

(01:16:52):
asked you to appear on their albums? Are they are
they just like do you and do what you do
and that's it? Or do they have like very specific,
uh instructions and and and are you fold at all
that specific instructions or do you just take the ones

(01:17:13):
that go do you? Well, I've done most sessions that
I've done has been just kind of like do you.
But I worked with Cody and Gambino and they're both
like it goes like this, you know, and it's like
I kind of put my no, I don't do it
goes like this, OK, yeah, I don't do that. So

(01:17:39):
the solo that you played on the on the Your
Mama joint, like that, that's them kind of directing or
is it how much as you versus the solo part?
The solo part was was all mean because you can't
you can't tell me how to do that part. Damn right, Um,
that's gotta be just from the heart. Yeah. But but

(01:18:00):
as far as like chord changes and things like that
and a little transition chords, it was like not that one,
this one, yep, that no perfect you know. Yeah, So
but it was cool. It's like I respect that. It's
like and I know what I want, I know what
you're capable of. Let's do that. I was watching your

(01:18:21):
the like I guess the new ep K or the
the promo video that you got for the new record
This Land, and it was one of the clip where
you were playing your solo and you were so lo
on like in the control room, and that's how I
cut all my vocals, So I thought it was interesting.
Is that how you always kind of play like just
right there in the moment, like you know, like right

(01:18:41):
in front of the console. Yeah, not not, It depends.
Sometimes I will, but sometimes I like to be in
the room with the band. But for that one, I
just turned then amp Caesar D one for twelve Cabinet
Marshall and just turn that up and just ran for
the God. Just still want to be in there, you know,
And I wanted to hear how it translates. I like

(01:19:02):
to hear. I was going to translate on the speakers,
you know. Yeah, for the most part with your vocal.
It was one in the same clip you were um,
you were cutting your vocal, you were playing, you were singing,
and you were singing. It look like you were singing
through a fifty eight through it. It's just like a
regular joint. Is that what you cut most of your
vocals on or do you do like the fancy I
guess Mike so or whatever. I've done all of it.

(01:19:24):
I don't really have a preference. Just is it on? Check,
let's go? Is it on? Okay? Yeah, I didn't know
if you had a preference for just more that kind
of raw like live sounded like a you know, a
smaller Mike. Now, I don't know the difference. What what
do you use? What my personal good one? Yeah? My
personal Mike is uh, it's a manly references. Yeah it is.

(01:19:52):
I've told you for seventy five years and never talked
about the man about the man so manly. I mean,
they're mainly known for like the outboard year, but they
make Mike. And so when I was rebuilding my studio
in my crib, I bought a Norman uh the U
eighty seven, which is like the classic Mike or whatever,
and so I got it and I was just like, yo, man,

(01:20:14):
this ship sounds cold. This is cold at funk. I
don't like this. And so my homie my deal at home,
and he was like, well, yo, he said. The Normans
are generally very cold out the box, he said, but
over time, as they age, that's when they get kind
of warm. I was like, I'm trying to go, I'm
trying to come. Yeah, I ain't time for that you need.

(01:20:36):
So he was like, yo, but the one you need
is the manly reverence. I was like whatever, So he
let me shoot out. I'd had like a whole like
Lockership have eighty seven U sixty seven. Yeah, I shout
it out against you eighty seven U sixty seven. I
had a ribbon Mike like an r C A like
old Elvis Mikey. I had that one. I had um

(01:20:58):
the Road, which was like my for like years. I
shout it out against like six seven mics. It kicked
all the asses for like I mean, and it was
for it was like a thousand dollars cheaper than the
U eighty seven. It might have to get me a
manly truth. Man got what I got. I got like
a little smifty eight too, like I'll cut vocals through that,
which is like a shoe or just one of those.

(01:21:20):
And I mean that in the clip that I saw,
like from your album, it looked like you were singing
in one of those, and I used that one too.
I don't even remember Michael in the mirror. Yeah, I'm
I'm one of those people that I've been under Shore's
uh uh what do you call it up in endorsing? Sure,

(01:21:42):
for like decades now, but you know that's over now.
Yeah wait we don't. Yeah wow, when did we end
that relationship? Can I ask a question? Sure, Gary Clarke Jr.
You seem to be like the Roots, this weird anomaly

(01:22:04):
of well yeah, but like but like fans or people
playing like black music, but it appeals to white audiences
and it's a rarity. Like you you play Bonnaroo and
you play these festivals for white jam kids. That's doesn't
happen that often in the same way the Ruth the

(01:22:25):
fucking Roots played to my college. We've talked about this
and my college spring fling when I was graduating. I
loved it. Let's just go with that. Uh but but
I don't know what do you attribute that to? Because
you're I mean, I find I think I have an answer,
but I was wondering what your answer was. I mean,
other than it's all great music, which I'm sure is

(01:22:46):
an easy answer, but like, do you ever think about that?
I do, Uh, well, I'm thinking about it, certain understandable.
Oh yeah, I don't know. Just good music is good music.
I mean, like it is what it is Uh, well,

(01:23:08):
can I ask you, I'm gonna add one to it?
Is it harder for you now? I know that you're
going in different we should mention also that this land
I forgot that my interest it is out right now? Um?
Is it harder for you to keep the flame alive? Uh?

(01:23:32):
And which kind of the the environment of the musical
environment of the youth is the kind of the exact
opposite of it? Whereas you know, traditional rock was the
front and center rebel music that was the middle finger
to society, where now it's almost Uh, it's kind of

(01:23:55):
like a rarity where you can find quality, really good
trade sh a rock music? Is that hard? And I
know you're going in different directions with this album as well,
But is it is it hard defining or or standing
by your your your queen your acts in two thousand

(01:24:16):
and nineteen? It's it hard? Nah? I don't know. I
wouldn't know what to do without it. H Yeah, I
wish you could see. Hey, let me know when you
want to do the R and B immature album I'm

(01:24:40):
working on. I'm working on it right now. Man, Listen,
I'm on in on that. Yeah, he'll bring his manly
reference and everything Bill the remix to you. I don't
know if this is the remix, but were you kind
of asking like, do you do you ever feel some
type of way when you look in the crowd is
not as many black people as you as maybe one
would like to see? Is that like the question that

(01:25:00):
I was asking questions? But I just that that always
interests me, is why the routes? Because the issue with that,
But maybe Gary it does. It's different for every artist. Well,
I'm sorry. Black Thought was known as having not an issue,
but at times he's been known as we grew up
and we grew up in the hype Williams video era,

(01:25:23):
which was like the real record business. Yeah, and I
think if you grow up with that and those images
and whatnot, and you know what you're seeing on the road,
you know when groupies of chasing me, it's like five
five dudes in my hotel when we wanting to know,

(01:25:44):
like what kind of microphone does D'Angelo use? Like what
he was breaking down. I've had that conversation many a
time in the hotel like reference. But I've also seen
earlier on in the roots career, I've seen the response
when you've had like a black grounds, like, yeah, we
had a black crounds. My point was, I've seen I've
seen Gary played a number of times, and he will

(01:26:05):
freak out white hippie kids in the same way he
freaks out African America. It's like, and that's a rarity.
I'm compliment, you know what I'm saying, Like, I, I
don't you don't you see that enough? In the same
way the roots complained to all my audience and it
doesn't matter, and that I love and I feel like
the ability to do that is transcendent. And I don't

(01:26:27):
understand and I don't understand it. And that's my that's
my question. Is an endangered species? Do you feel some
sort of way about it? But the answer simple. Black
people gave up on rock music after Living Color Network Steve,

(01:26:52):
you did it, let's go, here's your thing, say something.
And then they told us Lenny didn't count. Lenny is Jewish.
That's what let me grab his way? You know that

(01:27:13):
Living Color? And who else do we have? Well? Nothing
after me? We had Prince. I mean really Prince was,
but did he the guitar doesn't mean yeah he was?
He saw it. He was Black people. The Isley Brothers definitely,

(01:27:36):
so we keep it in the spirit of like by
seventy six. By seventy six, Funking Delic basically became because
was a Parliament song. Yeah, I mean, you know, and
Garry started himself will say that, you know, I felt
that after when making One Nation under the Groove and

(01:27:57):
suddenly we just sold out and became Parliament. So I'm
just saying that it doesn't seem like based on the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and everything else that
it defends. It depends on who you're asking what rock
and roll is, because I mean there's a whole very
derivative situation. And then I don't know, it's to me
the funk lineage is like outside of rock, like Princess

(01:28:18):
Funk and pop, you know, but more than rock. But
he's he's rock. I never grew printing in rock, which
is probably the reason why Rolling Stone had left him
off the one greatest guitar players. Like but in the
rock and Roll Hall of that right there, Yeah, whoa, yeah, unfair, yes,

(01:28:40):
like they Rolling Stone literally forgot to list Prince in
one of the in and thus when Prince did the
my guitar gently weeps guitar solo at the Hall of Fame.
That was his revenge, Like that was his like motherfucker's Like,

(01:29:01):
you know what. But I think with him though, I mean,
this is just I think with him, with artists like
that that are just so big and just so known
for so many hit records, it's hard to imagine what
gets overlooked as just the musicianship. So even like with
Michael Jackson, like Michael would say, like he would talk
about Prince, he would say, well, people look at Prince
as an artists, as an artist, but they just look

(01:29:23):
at me, dude. But Mike used to saying, it's goddamn
face off, you know what I mean. Sometimes I forget
that Mike is an excellent right because you just see
the white Sox and the dances and ship that you
forget that this is some real fucking musicianship going on.
I feel as the Prince really took the space that
the Isley Brothers had in the seventies. I can wrap

(01:29:43):
you on that. And it's so natural for Ernie Einsley
to do a solo in the seventh You know that
you just you never said it. This is not rock
and roll, this is you know, it's that sort of thing.
Somehow somewhere it became harder, not harder, for black dudes
to be called and roll. It's we can say you

(01:30:05):
should jump over. I mean, we are all older all
the time, gart don't are not. I think at the
kids table in my own damn house, I still do, Garret.

(01:30:29):
So I have a somewhat relevant question, I think. So
he was asking about his hands again, So, um, is
it is it a blessing or a curse to be
grouped as a certain genre, specifically blues or blues rock.
Let's say in your case, um, is that is that
something that you hold up as a as a sign

(01:30:52):
of pride or is that something that's that's pigeonholing? You know,
I feel I feel a couple of ways of about that.
When I was a kid, all I wanted to do
was be a blues man. My first when I first
got a guitar, I saw Stevie Uh, Steve ray Van
tribute was Eric Clapton, Buddy Gott, B B. King, Robert Craig,
Bonnie right, Um, a few others, and I said, I

(01:31:16):
want to be a part of that thing. And so
in two thousand and ten, when I got to be
on stage with all them at the same time, I
was like, it feels great to be a part of this,
but it's also that all the things. Was like, well,
I got I love being a part of this thing,
but I love other stuff too, and I'd like to
do all of that. Um So I just I just
do what I do and try not to think about it.

(01:31:37):
And I'm thirty four years old, man, I got other stuff,
thank you, And you're going going in different directions, Like
do you now feel as though, I mean the way
that that the times you're defined now is just to
be fluid, like nondefined and the new records if yeah, Yeah,

(01:32:02):
I think that that I've always wanted to kind of
do that. I mean, Quincy Jones is idolt to me.
He's been trying to get rid of the genres and
all that for a long time. And and uh, when
I heard Wu Tank spitting over Albert Kingwicks, I was like,
I can do whatever I want. Yeah. I was gonna
ask you about that because you talked about in your

(01:32:24):
in the promo for the new record, you talk about
like your hip hop influences, like what was this what
was some of the hip hop stuff you listen to um.
I mean when I was I guess nine, ten, eleven, twelve,
I wasn't allowed to listen to hip hop, but my
body Graham would make me tapes put different titles on it,

(01:32:47):
and why did Yeah, so I was listening to like
DMX Snoop um one, g uh Bone, Dougs in harmony,

(01:33:11):
Um bonus in harmony, never sang in harmony always he's right, Yeah,
totally correct. I never thought about that harmony totally right,
totally right. I never thought about that. Did you have
you have You'll? I saw I was just reading something

(01:33:33):
where you did something with Bunby, but have your Texas
like the MCS kind of embraced you in that way. Yeah,
because I'm thinking about I'm thinking about Scarface. I don't
want to say Austin, So I'm thinking guitars. I forgot
about his guitar. I saw him doing I went to

(01:33:54):
go see him and um in d C. And I
didn't know he played guitar. So he came up with
a guitar. What will let him play whatever he wants to? Yeah?
So um but yeah, so yeah, yes, switch your house,
you know. So I spent a lot of time listening

(01:34:14):
to that Um, but I love the production stuff, you know,
the production side of it, you know, from like Swiss
and Dre and you know the whole you know. I mean,
I'm sitting here with what you got, but I gotta
give it up to the roots for production and musicality
and that, you know what I mean? Like that that
made it to me is like this all goes together,

(01:34:36):
you know what I mean? And I can. I want
to be a part of that too. I want to
do that too. I love being a blues man, but
like this ship is tight, you know what I mean?
Like I want to get into this too and figure
it all out. So I want to put the MPC
underneath everything and put the guitars and the live instrumentation
on top of it, and and use all the colors,
you know what I mean. Do you like jash? Yeah?

(01:35:07):
I love jazz. I listened to a good amount of it. Um,
never try to touch it really though, So what is
what is your go to listening? So what's on my playlist? Sir?
I guess yeah? Yeah, um John Battist's latest one, Yeah

(01:35:31):
lm A. Have been listening to boot Up. Yeah, don't
do all of her because the second Trip and sound
like booed up the song the whole Trip and Sam
and I've been listening to Sammy Davis Jr. I've one right,
there's another Sammy David Jr. There's a younger person that

(01:35:55):
named himself Sammy David Jr. So I'm just trying to
make sure I wasn't confused. You're talking about the Candyman
the Canyon. That would be okay, but is it because
for the junior thing? Like the connection anyway? But I was.
I came across a performance of him um doing uh

(01:36:20):
Mr bo Jangles yeah and uh and my son really
loved it and so he started singing it around the
house and I was like, well, let's just get in
the same Davis Junior together. So that's been our musical.
That is the Beauty Discover. Yeah, that's what's happened. We
need to movies to get into those episodes on the
The Couxtables. I can't even say the show. No more

(01:36:41):
on the Huxtables, Okay, on The Cosby Show, because Sammy
David Junior had some really great cameos, but I doubt
you will find that anywhere. Yeah, Tap, he was really
good in the movie. Tap Tap was hard Ship with
Gregory hynd tapping yea song that the title song. It

(01:37:05):
was JT and Regina Bill and it was not make
it like it was, but it was sorry. Yeah, yeah,
saw that the best. See Gary, this is when this
is this, We're falling out is back. I'm with it, Okay,
Gary Clark has Jamison, He's fine, as I understand. I

(01:37:30):
gotta wrap this up. Go to bed. Yeah, who's not
going to I'm gonna go to bed. Yeah, I do.
Steve got to go to bed. Sounds like a movie
in the early early morning. Yeah. Anyway, Bill and Steve. Anyway,
my second bar Mitzvah hosted Bookends. What is uh? You're You're?

(01:37:53):
What are you playing on the rest of your year
being in two thousand nineteen, the rest of two thousand
nineteens tour forever. That's a good thing. I'm trying to
work like you man. That's yes, that's a good thing.
That's an awesome thing. Yeah, it's a blessing. How do
you balance it out with you with your boys and
you you know what, what the kids A boy girl,
boy girl? Okay, I'll just get it. Hopefully you can

(01:38:15):
just bring them out with me, bring with you. That's
I'm trying to get to that, you know. Just it's
a family. So yeah, we'll just be out there everywhere.
It's cool. Well, we thank you for coming on the show.
So yes, man, I'm so happy to learn that your
R and B do like like R and B arm

(01:38:37):
like greasy R and B like the arm By record.
I want in on it, like, let's do like some
divince frante, Gary Clark, I might have to get it.
You gotta stand in there, but make sure you caught
the land first. Yeah that was Davidson that hit me
with the beautiful Yeah this land anyway on behalf of

(01:39:04):
Unpaid Bill and Uh Sugar Steve of the Sugar Steve Network,
Jazz Guitars and Boss Bill is getting angry Bill. We
love you man. Sorry, look with your bath he look
with your bathroom. You don't be in the nidoon renovations finished,
Matt finished, Gary, We thank you for coming on the Sex.

(01:39:28):
We see you all the next round. Of course, Love
of Supreme, see y'all later. Course Love Supreme. It's a
production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced

(01:39:48):
by the team at Mandora. For more podcasts from My
Heart Radio, visit the I heart radio app, Apple podcast,
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