QLS Classic: Glynn Turman

In this 2020 episode of Questlove Supreme we sat down with a man who has been woven into the fabric of all of our lives at any point of his 60-year-career and we try to cover it all! From Peyton Place to Cooleyhigh, A Different World, Fargo to Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and about 160 projects in between, the iconic Glynn Turman opens up to Team Supreme.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
What y'all, it's Laiah for Team Supreme. Now, our newest
episode of Quest Love Supreme is.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
With the legend Ben Burreen.

Speaker 4 (00:13):
Now, in that.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Episode, which you have to check out, Ben mentions growing
up in Brooklyn with none other than Glenn Turman. Yeah, y'all,
they went to high school together. So this week we're
gonna revisit our late twenty twenty interview with Glynn. Now,
just to remind you, Glenn's career spans over sixty five
years and numerous pivotal, pivotal I know the word, numerous

(00:36):
pivotal roles. And in that conversation that we had, he
speaks about his approach to the work, some of the
roles that defined his career. Yes, it was very different
than our conversation that we had with Ben spoke about
his family and self discovery and more. But that's the
beauty of Questlove Supreme, the beauty of these conversations and
the beauty of preserving.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
So take a listen as we preserved and celebrate our history.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Much better.

Speaker 5 (01:21):
Yeah, I was gonna say, also, uh, if he's been
acting with Teddy Wilson at least three film solf I
gotta get.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Picked, pay and place Julia. That's all I'm saying. All right,
I'm I'm just bringing it.

Speaker 6 (01:40):
I think between all of us will give me his career.

Speaker 7 (01:42):
Yeah, get y'all.

Speaker 6 (01:49):
Wow, Hello, legend, what's going on?

Speaker 8 (01:55):
What's that?

Speaker 9 (01:56):
Colonel Way? Listen?

Speaker 10 (01:58):
What know?

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Yeah? It's great, that's great.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. This is another
episode of Quest of Supreme Supreme Teams in the house,
all of us here and unpaid Bill.

Speaker 9 (02:15):
Yeah, you're doing how worried roys to the building? Ready
for each of.

Speaker 5 (02:23):
Us in this room, we're gonna have like are our
memories of our guest today?

Speaker 9 (02:29):
Find take alo? You cool?

Speaker 6 (02:31):
Yeah, man, listen, I'm cool as I could be a legend,
and I know.

Speaker 9 (02:38):
Questions.

Speaker 10 (02:38):
Cool. Good to see everybody.

Speaker 11 (02:41):
Nice to see you, sir.

Speaker 9 (02:42):
Oh yeah, and uh like you is also with us.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I am over joyed over there.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
We already met.

Speaker 9 (02:52):
This is special.

Speaker 8 (02:53):
Now you got your healming on? No, I see him?

Speaker 5 (03:02):
Okay, So I'll say that you know our guest today
beyond super legend. I mean I personally grew up watching
his entire canon, even if I didn't know I was
watching him, but he's literally been practically almost in every
movie that I was allowed to watch, which speaks highly

(03:22):
of his his his choice of film. This man is
sixty years of acting under his belt on all mediums, movies, television, plays.
I mean, if I name them, all will be here forever.
I mean Raising the Sun, Julia Room two, my Squad,

(03:43):
the White Shadow, Yeah, Coolie High, Peyton.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Place, Homework ain't nothing, but.

Speaker 9 (03:50):
I know.

Speaker 5 (03:52):
All the Black ABC After School's specials.

Speaker 9 (03:57):
Jad's Revenged, you know, a different I'd see it had
one g in.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
You know that right, you know Jamie Fox Stay that
one day just made me laugh.

Speaker 5 (04:14):
I'm sorry, of course, our our white contendency definitely knows
him from the wire, you know, currently.

Speaker 9 (04:23):
Riding high now on his I mean, uh, nomination.

Speaker 5 (04:26):
Of How to get Away with Murder, currently giving us
a twofer in Fargo on effect. Doctor Senator, doctor Senator
his birth name, Doctor Senator. I love I love it,
you know, not to be out done in the in
the historical telling of My Rainey's uh illustrious career as

(04:48):
a as a pioneer in My Rainey's Black Bottom. Ladies
and gentlemen, please welcome to quest Love, Supreme One and
only Glenn Turman.

Speaker 8 (04:58):
Yes, thank you very much for everyoneful introduction.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
My brother.

Speaker 8 (05:02):
You look, man, I grow up. I won't be like
you look got kicked back.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
You up.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
I'm just you know this, you know, I'm just relaxing
with friends. I know, I know, I know we usually
do this chronological thing, but it would be forever, so
I think this is going to be more rapid fire,
so I will go first. You know, I'm obsessed with

(05:28):
a particular period. I know that you're a Harlem Knight.

Speaker 9 (05:31):
Correct. You were born in Harlem, you know.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
And I've heard a lot from Nina Simone, James Baldwin,
but I never got to hear any personal tales of
the great Lorraine Huntsberry. And I know that she cast
you at a young age and raising in the sun
so and I think the way she casts you was

(05:57):
very casual. It wasn't like you had, you know, these
goals to be an actor. Can you just explain to me, like,
what was it like in that environment growing up with
those those giants as as a young person looking at them?

Speaker 4 (06:12):
Well, you know, I was born in Harlem but raised
in Greenwich Village, so my mother a single parent moved
from Harlem, she and I to a cold water flat
six what they used to call cold water flat in
Greenwich Village in the fifties, and that meant that the

(06:34):
departments were were literally that there was no hot water
and you had to walk up five flights and six
flights of stairs and you had to boil your water,
you know. And that was sort of the norm of
apartments styles in the village at that time. And the
people who were predominantly living in these these conditions were

(06:58):
artists James Baldwin, Lorraine Hansbury, Smith, Oliver, Nina Simone, and all.

Speaker 8 (07:06):
Of these people were my mother's contemporaries.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
And there were few, just a handful of blacks in
the village at that time, and she was a part
of this bohemian sort of clique of intellectuals, you know.
So one Dame Lorrain, my mother said, you know, my

(07:30):
friend Mss Hansbury, she's written a play. There's a part
for a little boy in it, and she was wondering
if you might be interested in and auditioning for the part.
But I didn't know what an audition was. I had
no idea. And my mother said, well, yeah, if you
get this part, it's going to be many saturdays. So
I said, well, I don't know. She said, well, let's
study the part and we'll go and meet them on

(07:54):
this particular date, which I did. And then there were
a whole bunch of other little kids, black boys in
the hallway when we got to this office up in Midtown,
and I.

Speaker 8 (08:04):
Didn't know what they were there for.

Speaker 4 (08:06):
I didn't know that they were there competing for the
same role that I was competing for. I thought the
role was mine, So I couldn't figure out what all
these other little knuckleheads was doing there.

Speaker 8 (08:15):
Because my role I read the play. There's only one
little boy in the play.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
That's me.

Speaker 8 (08:21):
So what y'all doing here? You know?

Speaker 4 (08:23):
So but I larned to found out what an audition
was that they were all we were all there for
the same role.

Speaker 8 (08:32):
But I got the role, and so there I was
in show business.

Speaker 9 (08:37):
That's that's a hell of an entry.

Speaker 5 (08:40):
Yeah, do you do you have just personal memories of
speaking with her or interacting with her or well what
it was?

Speaker 4 (08:48):
Yes, she she and I. I. You know, there were
a lot of games that you played in the streets
in those days. You didn't have to be in the
house all the time. When I grew up, you know,
there were games that you play, you know, stickball, stickball, Skullzies,
you know, sullies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was my game.

(09:11):
So Skelzies and so on and so for and Ms Hansbury
had a college dog. And and she herself was beautiful.
She was really pretty. And what happened was that happened
was because we were on the ground playing skullzies. You know,
we were thumping the bottle caps or whatever it was
was your piece. You know. We spent a lot of

(09:32):
time down low on the ground as kids. But all
of a sudden, this dog would walk through our game,
you know, and then these beautiful set of legs would
walk through the game. And when I was looking up,
I would find myself saying hello. In his hands, she

(09:57):
said hello, laying you know, I tell your mother this.
I'll tell you mother that of blah blah blah blah blah.
So she was very part of the neighborhood. You know,
we were it was a neighborhood, and we were all
in this neighborhood. So you know, sometimes I.

Speaker 8 (10:10):
Say I carry that for you. I carry those groceries
for you in Garam home and she just hit me
a quarter and so on and so forth, you.

Speaker 5 (10:16):
Know, everyone fighting to get her attention. I see, wait,
I do have a question for you. You mentioned growing
up in Harlem. Do you have any memories whatsoever of
the Harlem Cultural Festival that went on? It was it
was it was a concert thrown by a gentleman named
Tony Lawrence. And this was like nineteen sixty nine. It

(10:40):
was like Nina Simone, Stevie Wonder. Yeah, like it was
all the summer of nineteen sixty nine.

Speaker 9 (10:47):
Do you have any memories of I don't.

Speaker 8 (10:48):
I really don't.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
I came to California in sixty eight, literally, and I've
been in California living since nineteen sixty eight, so that
that particular event I'm not necessarily familiar with.

Speaker 9 (11:04):
What prompted the move to California.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
I came to do a play at a theater company
called the Inner City Cultural Center. The Inner City Cultural
Center was over on Pico and New Hampshire, the East
LA and it was run by a man by the
name of ce Bernard Jackson, and it was a wonderful

(11:27):
theater company.

Speaker 8 (11:28):
It there's still remnants of it now. Which I'm still
a part of.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
As a matter of fact, we've got a zoom thing
that we're getting ready to do pretty soon. But I
came to do a play there called Slow Dance on
the Killing Ground, which had been done in Broadway in
New York with Clarence Williams the third and I was
going to do the West Coast version of it. And
that brought me here by a woman who is a

(11:54):
high school teacher of mine at the High School Performing
Arts which I attended.

Speaker 8 (11:58):
She brought me out here to do that play.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
Her name was Bennett Carroll, and she was one of
the first black female directors on Broadway, having directed a
play called Your Arms Are Too Short to Box with God, God.

Speaker 5 (12:14):
Before Your Turn and Raising in the Sun. Did you
have aspirations to give them a business or to be
an actor or was it just like something that worked
out and you're like, well, I want to try it again?

Speaker 9 (12:26):
Like what was No?

Speaker 4 (12:27):
I had no obsperation at all. You know, I did
this thing. My mama told me about it. She said,
we get to travel, so which we did. You know.
I was got to go to Chicago and Philly and
New Hampshire with the play touring before we came into
New York. Of course I got to meet all these
wonderful people, Sidney Poitier and work with them, Ruby d

(12:47):
and Ivan Dixon and Lou Gossett, you know, all these
people that were fantastic. And then see some people that
I knew from the movies like Sammy Davis, Junior Earth
a kid to you know, beautiful Dothy Dandridge. You know.
So I got to meet all these people that my

(13:07):
mother and my aunties and everybody was like saying, oh
my god, oh my god, oh my god, you know,
but for me it wasn't. I was just a kid,
so it was it was a big deal, but it
wasn't a big deal. You know what I'm saying. Kids
don't really pay a lot of attention to that.

Speaker 5 (13:24):
Right So when it's over, then suddenly is it feeling
of emptiness like, well, when's the next one?

Speaker 9 (13:33):
Or how can I do this?

Speaker 4 (13:34):
No?

Speaker 8 (13:34):
I kept.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
I quit the play. I quit the play after a
year being in it. Sidney Poitier left. I left soon after,
just to get back to being a regular kid, you know,
and going to my regular high school because I was
going at that time. They took me out of my
regular school and put me in a children's school, professional school, you.

Speaker 8 (13:53):
Know, and I didn't like it. You know, all my
thug buddies.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Was going to a different school, right so I was
ready for thug every one oh one, you know, and
I wasn't going to give that mace professional children's school.
You know what made what made.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
You stay that long? I'm curious because you mentioned that
you weren't like phased by the stars or anything else,
but you stay long.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
It was fun. I did this, you know, I was
with them. But also, you know, like I said, we
needed the money. You know, my mother was a single parent.
She wasn't working at the time, you know, and this
money came in handy to turn the lights back on.

Speaker 8 (14:32):
You know, so uh uh.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
You know it was a practical factor involved as well.
And once we got on our feet, you know, mom
said it was okay, leave, We're cool, and I split. Wow,
you mentioned, but I kept getting parts. I kept getting
parts while I was in junior high school because I
had such notoriety as a result of being this kid

(14:57):
in a Broadway place. So anytime there was a little
black kid, they kept putting me. I kept getting in
these different shows a lot of different television shows, you know,
and a lot of different stage plays with Leroy Jones,
who was Mari Baraka. So I worked with him when
creating some of his early works. I worked with James

(15:18):
James Kahn, Jimmy Kahn and Robert Redford in a TV series,
you know, TV special. They were live, it was live television, man.
And so I kept getting in these things, and uh,
then uh, it came time to go to high school.
And I had a teacher, a wood shop teacher, black

(15:39):
wood shop teacher, who said, Terman, what what school you're
going to go to? What high school you're going I said,
I'm going to high school with aviations in his design.
I'm going to become an aviation's engineer. He said, Terman,
you are a chronic truant. You haven't been to a
math class since in the last three semesters.

Speaker 8 (16:01):
How do you don't? You have to take a test for.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
Aviation and aviation and design and you don't know anything
about math. You know, it's all math. I said, that's okay,
I'm going to take the test and I'll pass it.
He said, well, look, there's a school called the High
School Performing Arts. It's now called LaGuardia, right, And I said,
he said, why don't you audition for that school? They

(16:24):
do acting and stuff like that, the art I said.

Speaker 8 (16:27):
Oh no, no, no, no, no, I'm not doing that.
I'm going to aviation and design, you know.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
And he said they said, he said, well do this
take the test and the audition. Well I failed the test,
like he knew I would the audition.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
What was the school like back in I'm assuming this
is the mid sixties or late.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Sixties, yeah, early sixties earlier.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
Yeah, Like I like, I've attended to Performing Arts school,
but in the late eighties and nineties. But what was
the curriculum like back then? Like was it diverse?

Speaker 4 (17:06):
The Guadia is now on I think fifty ninth Street
was something like that and ninth or tenth Avenue. But
then Performing Arts, which was the movie Fame was made about. Yeah,
And actually that was my graduating class that they made
that movie about. What Yeah, And And that school was
on forty sixth Street between sixth and seventh Avenue, so

(17:30):
it was right in the heart of Broadway. So there
I was again in the middle of Broadway, you know,
where I had been as a as a kid all
that time, and I ended up becoming top of the class.
I got an A for the first time ever in school.

(17:51):
I got all these great marks and graduated vice president
of my senior class and won all the awards and
all that. I said. When I got from A that
first semester, I came home, I said.

Speaker 10 (18:03):
Mom, look I got an A.

Speaker 4 (18:05):
And she said, yeah, well I've been trying to tell you,
you know, so you need to go.

Speaker 9 (18:11):
So she wanted it for you even more than you.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
Wanted it for yourself, you know. But that was always
a ham. You know, I'm always a kid. You know,
you got a cousin or if maybe it's you, you
know that you got a kid that on the holidays
or the party, the house party or whatever.

Speaker 8 (18:27):
When you were a kid, you know, your folks would
call you, come on out.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
And do sing a song, Come on out and dance,
come on out and do this. Come on.

Speaker 8 (18:34):
I was always that kid, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
So you mentioned you went since Fame was based off
of your class, where there's some peers that came out
with you.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
Remember there was a black kid in that movie Fame,
Lee Roy that was Ben Vereen.

Speaker 8 (18:52):
Shut up, yes, yes, So.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Genie was a troubled uh the troubled child that was
talented and still.

Speaker 8 (19:03):
We're all troubled children.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
Word. But Ben and I close to this day. We've
been buddies ever since we've been roommates. And the whole thing,
as a matter of fact.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
What's crazy is we interview the woman, the woman who
taught him how to dance. Her grandson became like the
legendary rapper because but she used to dance in the
Cotton Club. It's like a whole circle. Remember y'all prodigy? Yeah, sorry,
but that's just.

Speaker 8 (19:34):
So yeah, sure, that's dope.

Speaker 5 (19:36):
Okay, I'm gonna push it up a little bit because again,
your your career sprawls decades, and you know, we got
to cover everything. And then I'm gonna let you all
take it to do this question because I know y'all
got questions too, But I just want to say that
in retrospect, I guess, uh, Preach was was maybe the

(19:56):
first black nerd I've ever seen on media screen. So
maybe because the thing is is that when all my
friends watched Coolly High, they all related to coaches. And
for me, she goes, yeah, I related to Preach. You know,

(20:18):
I mean I didn't see myself as a nerd back then.
But I mean, obviously I was more preach.

Speaker 9 (20:23):
Than I was.

Speaker 5 (20:25):
You hold the podcast. No, man, I'm fucked out done.
It was just no, it was it was important. It
was important for me to see that, even though I
guess in real time I didn't see that as a
seed being planted, but I definitely knew that watching that

(20:50):
character and kind of the cheapest way that he didn't
want people to know that he was that smart. Like,
especially when you have to survive in the area that
you grow up, you know, you don't want people think
that you're weaker anything, so you try and over commodate whatever.
But can you just talk about like just working with
Michael Schultz and that whole like as coolly high, as

(21:13):
iconic to you as it is to us, or you
are you tired of everyone like making the deal over it?

Speaker 4 (21:19):
No?

Speaker 8 (21:20):
Actually, it is one of my favorite movies.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Even if I wasn't in it, the fact that I
am in it makes it one of my favorite movies
that I've been in. Oh really yeah, Yeah, it's a
terrific movie. And because ITAs it talks about just what
an exposed is, just what you're talking about a side
of us that very few, so especially at the time

(21:44):
when exploitation movies were being made, because all the characters
were pimps or players or tough guys or gangsters and
so on and so forth. So all of a sudden,
here you are in the neighborhood, and the gangsters are
not the star of the movie. A nerd is the
star of the movie. You know. It gave us a

(22:04):
chance to expose that some of your concerns, you know,
how do I stay smart and stay cool? So you know,
so he was indeed a cool nerd, you know, and
that's that's what we that's what he turned out to be.

(22:26):
But at the same time, it was interesting that that
our culture, which was my culture. We used to hit
you on the back of the buses, you know, jump
the turnstiles, ditch class. Told you that ditch class. I
Holly ever went to the class, you know, and so
all those and spend time after zoo while waiting, you know,

(22:47):
for school to be over so we.

Speaker 8 (22:49):
Can go back and get up books and do whatever.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
All of that was my culture, you know, and we
had never seen that on the screen before. Now the
fact that forty five years later, there are still for
decades of people, youngsters who grow up watching that movie.
That surprises me, you know, because I still have you know,

(23:12):
young teenagers will come up.

Speaker 8 (23:13):
And say, oh, you preach you know, I said, well
you you watch Coolie.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
Yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 8 (23:20):
So that's that surprises me.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
So no, I did not and we did not expect
it to be the iconic film that it turned out
to be. But a lot of that has to do
with Michael Schultz and Steve Krantz, who was the producer,
Michael Schultz, of course the director, and of course Eric
Monte who wrote the piece. They did something that was brilliant.

(23:43):
There's a star. There's a star in the movie that
no one notices. Of course there's myself, and there's Lawrence
Hilton Jacobs and Garrett Morris and Steven Williams and and
the people who were acting in the movie. But there's
also a movie a music score that you couldn't pay.

Speaker 5 (24:03):
For today, before the big greatest Motown score Motown. Yeah,
I was about to say, before the Big Chill. Yeah yeah, yeah,
before the Big Chill. Cool music is a star of
the movie.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
You know, it's one of the stars, you know, and uh,
you couldn't you couldn't buy that now for a motion picture,
you know.

Speaker 9 (24:26):
Too expensive.

Speaker 6 (24:27):
I was watching an interview you did.

Speaker 7 (24:28):
It was some years back, and you were talking about
that period in your career where you know, the the
industry in kind of Hollywood. They were calling it black exportation.
But I always admired what you said. You said, you know,
to y'all it was black exportation.

Speaker 6 (24:44):
To me, it was just work. Yeah, like we was.
We were just working, you know.

Speaker 7 (24:48):
And so I was curious just to know, like, just
with all your you know, career, all your years in
the game, you know, how has your view on those
movies changed, you know, like, you know, do you still
just see it just work or do you think that
there were some larger implications around those kind of films.

Speaker 8 (25:07):
No, I see it as work, you know, exploitation.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yeah, you could look at it like that, you know,
but a lot of good came out of it, A
lot of progress came out of it, you know, and
it fed families, you know, because it gave us opportunity
to work. The only problem was that most of the time,
it was a one sided view of who we were

(25:34):
as a people. When those things opened up, those views
opened up, and especially now, I'm so proud of what
the young people you guys are doing now in terms
of bringing forth projects that show more dimensions of our
experience and who we are. You know, That's what our
fight was about back then. You know, That's what we

(25:56):
went to the head office about. That's what we lost
jobs about. That's how we you know, get fired by
speaking up about you know, this character doesn't have a backstory,
or this character is one dimensional.

Speaker 8 (26:08):
Why doesn't this happen? Why does this woman have to
do this or that?

Speaker 4 (26:13):
You know. So those were the battles that we were facing.
But and to see what you guys are doing now
with with your opportunities in terms of taking advantage of
the changing tide is heartwarming for me, you know, because
it's been.

Speaker 8 (26:30):
A long haul.

Speaker 6 (26:31):
Well, we wouldn't be there without y'all.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
I was about to say, yeah, thank you.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
How difficult is that particular Hollywood shuffle where you kind
of have to wrestle between your dignity and a good paycheck.
Because there's there's one particular film that isn't often listed
in your your credits that I saw now. In two thousand,

(27:00):
I did a film with Spike Lee called Bamboozle about
menstrual culture. And when Spike was first pitching us this film,
the first thing he did was he came to our
studio and he was like, all right, I need three hours.
I'm gonna show you this movie. And he puts in
this movie from seventy seven called minstrel Man, and basically,

(27:23):
like Spike, Lee just gave us a crash course on
the entire history of menstrual entertainment. And you know, the
thing on the Spike was like, this movie's been banned.
You can't see you nowhere, Like he had to pull
strings to get this from like, you know, whatever company
had or whoever, like one.

Speaker 9 (27:42):
Of the producers was.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
But yeah, I've watched that film like three times and
even now then when I did the film, you know,
I thought, okay, well Spike saying this is a satire.
But you know, I was kind of in that naive
place where I thought, like, okay, you know, we're we're
in a post racial part of you know, where it's

(28:04):
two thousand, there's a new leaf and da da da da,
And sure enough we've eased back into probably even worse
a need what I call neo minstrelsy. But at the time,
what made you want to do such a daring film
about uh the history of menstrue entertainment, and.

Speaker 9 (28:26):
Why was it not.

Speaker 5 (28:29):
Exposed even on your on your Wikipedia page, it's not
even mentioned.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
Uh, it's one of them. It's one of my favorite
pieces menstrum Man. It was daring, It was a revolutionary
film and it paid homage too. We as performance, somebody
had to bite the bullets, and these these performance bit
the bullet. You know, I met Stephen Fetcher, mister Perry

(28:56):
when I was doing Koolie High. You're all familiar with
the stepping fees. Yes, who did more in terms of
really putting an image out there that really hurt us
as a as a as a people. But at the
same time, the reason it hurts is because he was
so brilliant at what it was that he was doing.

(29:20):
His performance capabilities were astounded, just like W. C. Fields,
just just like you know any of those great comedians
of those of that time, you know, Buster Keaton, all

(29:40):
those guys. But he took it on himself to give
you an interpretation.

Speaker 8 (29:48):
Of what was thought about us.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
In other words, he took the he took the narrative
of somebody some other cultures describing us, and those wasn't
true he visualized it. It was detrimental, but it was brilliant.

Speaker 12 (30:09):
It was really brilliant, so much so that it it
harnessed an entire race of people. Before that, he became
the highest one of the highest paid actors in Hollywood.
So there's that double edged sword of as a performer,
as an artist, what do we do?

Speaker 4 (30:31):
What are we about? And what do we do? And
how do we select what do we do? So I
saw this film as a film that tried to explain
that what do we do we're brilliant people, how do
we make what we have work for us? And what's

(30:53):
too much? You know, when do we stop? When do
we stop? When do we not say okay? When do
we say that's enough? And we still have it to
this day. It's not like on the way you.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Think it was different when it was only like one
or two of us, And now that that's changed a little,
maybe that space has changed, because when it's only one
of us representing everybody, then of course we're like, no, no.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
There was always a lot. That's why you should see
the still menstrum Man.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Okay, okay, I do I wrote it down? I am
where can I see where can I?

Speaker 9 (31:30):
I believe it's still on YouTube.

Speaker 8 (31:32):
It might be on YouTube.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Okay, you know it's funny. It's weird you said that
because maybe, like four years ago, I went on a
deep dive about the whole menstrual culture and someone had
a different perspective of step and Fetch It in which
he said that the one weapon that black people could

(32:00):
use against racism and white supremacy at that time was humor.
And so he saw step and Fetch It less as
like a you know, if people were saying like, well,
he's not a credit to his race or a sellout,
but more on the terms of he discovered a way
to disarm powerful white people at the time using humor.

(32:24):
Because on the other hand, Stepan would also take his
money and start funding like these black Shakespearean plays, like
he would use his money that he made for movies
and then really start a revolution by you know, Paul
Robins and stuff and that sort of thing. And so
you know, it's it's kind of a double edged sword

(32:47):
where I guess now you could just say that's just
what we call code switching, whereas you know, Steppen was
the original code switcher. But yeah, I wish, you know,
kind of wish that that film could come out of
its retirement. I mean at the time, was it at
the time, at the time where you shocked that well,

(33:10):
I mean kind of I assume that I wasn't well received,
so it was thrown like sort of underground.

Speaker 8 (33:15):
It was well received. That was the problem.

Speaker 9 (33:19):
It was too well received, well received for the wrong reasons.

Speaker 8 (33:23):
Reasons.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Well, it was you know, it was all of a
sudden people got a conscious about what they thought we
should be showing, you know, and I see it suffered
the fate that it suffered.

Speaker 8 (33:39):
You know, and I'm very sorry that it did, very
sorry that it did well.

Speaker 5 (33:42):
Yeah, I still recommend people see it, you know, because
it really especially uh. I remember one part in which
in the very beginning of the film where they explained that,
you know, when African American actors wanted to act, they
had to act like the white people imitating black people.

(34:03):
And then that's when I realized how meta that was.
That Oh, that that was okay, So that was the
whole point of minster entertainment, that we were imitating those who.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
Were imitating thoating.

Speaker 5 (34:15):
Us, imitating us and and terrorizing us. Hey can you
settle something. Is it true that I heard that you
were supposed to be the original Han Solo?

Speaker 9 (34:30):
And start? Yeah, yeah, uh what happened?

Speaker 4 (34:36):
So who does who does Hans Solo have a love affair.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
With Leo.

Speaker 6 (34:51):
That's on a white woman?

Speaker 8 (34:55):
I know.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
George Lucas was like, I'm just trying to live out
my fantasy. Yeah, but he says.

Speaker 8 (35:06):
He says, that's what the problem was.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
He says that that was that was what he didn't
want to open the canopies in that that area, and
so that's what stopped him from going, uh.

Speaker 8 (35:18):
Down that path, you know. And I asked him.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
I finally I asked I had a chance to. I
ran into him at at at Sam Jackson's party a
couple of years ago, and he and his wife were there,
and I hadn't seen him since that day, you know
those times, and uh, so I stepped up to him
and asked him. I said, man, I'm read that you
were thinking about me for Hot Solo. He says, yeah,

(35:43):
that's right.

Speaker 8 (35:44):
I said, And you.

Speaker 4 (35:45):
Didn't do it? Because he says, yeah, I didn't want
to go down there. I said, I understand, I understand, I.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Love that didn't do it? Because fill a blank.

Speaker 7 (35:55):
Yeah, I won't smoking eighty two now, I wouldn't get it.

Speaker 8 (36:02):
But some thought it was me some money because.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
That was cleaned up on on that Star Wars thing.
I sure would like to get my percentage of of
that because that was before Jones. It's all, it's all good,
no problems, I got no regrets.

Speaker 7 (36:26):
One of your films I wanted to ask you about
that is like a classic and hip hop and I
don't even know if you're aware you maybe but JD's
Revenge Man, JD's Revenge. I didn't see the movie. I
didn't see it until I mean maybe around like yeah,
like two thousand or so around. I bought the DVD,
but it was sample in a ghost Face Killer Wu

(36:49):
Tang Clan album, And so when we figured out that's
what it was, like a lot of me and a
lot of my homies, a lot of hip hop cats.
We ended up getting that movie and watching it and
I actually still have it on DVD right now.

Speaker 6 (37:04):
But what do you remember, if anything.

Speaker 8 (37:07):
Snoop's favorite movie?

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Really?

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (37:11):
Yeah, four of Us classic classic, Yeah, those that period
of your career, What do you remember about shooting like
movies like that, like you know JD's Revenge. These movies
that were, you know, kind of low budget and but
they were entertaining. I mean, you know, Joe JD's Revenge

(37:32):
and also uh Penitentiary to the movie I had no
business seeing as like a six year old, but I
was afraid.

Speaker 13 (37:40):
That sweet come on, bron, well, what was it like?

Speaker 6 (37:50):
Because that movie was insane and like but what was
it was it like? Working on it?

Speaker 4 (37:55):
It was insane working on it, you know. You know,
first of all, you know, we shot it in the Orleans.
You know. Oh wow, that was the first time I
had been to New Orleans. Oh and you know, I'm
shooting a movie where as a character, I've got to
be possessed, you know. So I'm coming in and out

(38:15):
of these possessions and you know, anything about the Orleans
that's real now.

Speaker 8 (38:20):
Man, you know, indeed that's the way that goes down there.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
And being a young actor at the time, I was,
you know, as I still am, but especially back then,
I was all about going for the reality of things,
you know, and going because I had to go to deliver,
you know, and without any filters, you.

Speaker 8 (38:40):
Know, so I uh went on quite on quite a
ride down there.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
You know, and doing.

Speaker 14 (38:47):
That how much of a ride, White Boy?

Speaker 4 (38:58):
It was a hell of a ride, it was, you know,
because the city itself was such a character in the film.
You know, they're gargoyles and all of the architecture, you know,
so there's always something looking at you, you know, and
it was a hell of it was a hell of
an experience.

Speaker 5 (39:17):
Hey, you know of the what I call the the
seventy squad of young black actors who later in the
eighties sort of elevated themselves to directors and producers, I
know that it was. It was a big deal when

(39:38):
like Kevin Hooks sort of like left the white shadow
and became a director. I know that in nineteen eighty
three you directed like Dynasty was a religion in my grandmother's.

Speaker 9 (39:53):
Household, like all my aunts. Wow, everyone watch.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Congress And.

Speaker 9 (40:06):
How how was that your first foray into directing.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
Television? Yes, it was, Yes, it was.

Speaker 5 (40:16):
So what what prompted uh that, particularly as far as
you getting into directing.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
Show Biz is an interesting multi headed beast. The movie
we spoke about menstrul Man mm hmm ran into all
sort of stumbling blocks, as as you noted, of course,
but one of the One of the wonderful things that
came out of it was a relationship that I formed

(40:44):
with the authors of that piece, the Shapiro's, Richard and
Esther Shapiro, wonderful, wonderful, talented, talented people. They wrote menstrul Man,
and they cast me in menstrul Man, and during a
course of our knowing one another, they developed dynasty.

Speaker 9 (41:09):
Oh nasty.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
And then talking with the conversation, Glenn was next on
your agenda, what do you see yourself? I said, I
see myself directing. I had to have been directing some
plays at the Inner City Cultural Center that I spoke
of earlier, and they said really, I said, yeah, you know.
She said, well, we're putting in a program for directors.

Speaker 8 (41:36):
We want more that.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
Minority directors to come and be a part of this.
I said, count me in, And so I shadowed one
of the directors for months and months and months, and
finally gave me my shot. Oh.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
I'm so glad you mentioned that, because more people don't
talk about all these programs that are available, especially for minorities,
that they're able to do that. It's a lot of
networks and in places to do that. I'm just as
people to listen to us. I want you to know
you should look into that because that's still something really popular.
Do you still audition?

Speaker 4 (42:10):
No, ma'am, So when's the last.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Time you did?

Speaker 4 (42:13):
I just.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Okay, then I'm I'm getting myself together my question when
I'm just curious, when it is the last time that
you did? Oh? Yeah, okay, don't roll.

Speaker 9 (42:24):
Yea talk.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
Ship. Last time I auditioned.

Speaker 6 (42:33):
Last time that I checked.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
It was for a Tom Cruise movie. And maybe you know,
I don't know how many years ago I knew that
after I came out of that audition that I would
never audition again.

Speaker 9 (42:53):
M speak.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
And I told that to my to my agents, I said,
I'll never auditioned again.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I'm trying to do the math on this. Do you
remember if this was in the nineties, the two thousands,
because that just means that I just don't know how many
people just called you and said I got a role,
let's go like that's just.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
It was in the nineties.

Speaker 9 (43:10):
Wow, What made you?

Speaker 4 (43:13):
Man?

Speaker 6 (43:13):
What about that process made you make that decision?

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Because I realized I knew who I knew, they knew
who they wanted for the roles. So I was going
through an exercise that I didn't tend to go through
anymore in my career. At that time, I had paid
my dues and so it came a time for me
to stand on that principle, and luckily it's turned how well,

(43:38):
you know, And I have nothing against auditioning. You know,
if audition, if you feel that that's what's going to
help you get the role as a as an actor actress,
go for the audition. But after but if it gets
to a point where it's it's sours what you're in

(44:01):
this for, it starts taking away any of the joy
that you're doing this, then it's it's contaminating your process,
and you have to make a decision because then the
joy and the fun is being taken out of And
that's what I got in this for. As you see,

(44:25):
it just kept coming to me. So I wasn't in
it for money, you know. I was in it because
it was afforded to me and I found that I
could do something that I ended up loving doing.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
What a blessing.

Speaker 4 (44:40):
So why subject myself to something that, at that stage
of the game was making it was ruining the love affair.

Speaker 8 (44:50):
I refused to have them ruin the love affair.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
You're already thirty years in by that.

Speaker 8 (44:55):
Anyway, you arned.

Speaker 7 (44:57):
Yeah, Keith David, I've read this piece with him a
couple of years ago. He was saying something very similar
to what you were saying, and that he said, I
don't sell myself at this one of my career. I
don't sell myself. I just present myself at this point.
You know what it is.

Speaker 6 (45:12):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 7 (45:13):
You know, if you're coming to me, Yeah, if you're
coming to me, you want me, and and that's.

Speaker 9 (45:17):
What it is.

Speaker 8 (45:18):
Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 4 (45:19):
I love and I respect. I love and I respect
the business. Like he said, I present myself and I've
got a track record. I feel that speaks for myself.

Speaker 9 (45:30):
Okay, okay, so let's jump into it, all right, doctor warr.

Speaker 8 (45:38):
One of y'all got a job for me.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
I'm like, I'm looking at this thing and I'm like,
ain't no spike moving ahead? How many times he says
no to people, I'm sorry, I just.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
Go ahead, mayor got okay?

Speaker 5 (45:52):
So, of course, as as as lovingly dubbed doctor war
because of your you're a rep for being a hard math,
uh professor, A majority of our audience, of course connects
with you as Colonel Bradford Taylor or a different world.
I have to say that probably in Quarantine. I've revisited

(46:16):
that entire series and didn't realize how ahead of its
time it was, especially with what we're dealing with now.

Speaker 9 (46:28):
Like I went to.

Speaker 7 (46:29):
A black college because of that, because of the different
world that I went to graduating from hbc U Facts And.

Speaker 8 (46:36):
Now we've got a vice president that went.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, probably because of you too, that's right.

Speaker 8 (46:49):
Here in general?

Speaker 5 (46:54):
Did you I mean, at the time, did you see
this as a well, I guess nothing's revolutionary as you're
you're doing it, uh, when you're in the vacuum, and
it's only with perspective that you see how important it is.
But at the time, like, what were your thoughts on
a different world? Did you think that, Wow, this is
really historically significant or it's just a very good, steady job,

(47:18):
or like what what was the process?

Speaker 4 (47:22):
Well, all that, you know, I came to find out
that Susan Fails, the team of Susan Fails and Debbie
Allen was an unstoppable force. I had been in enough
in the business enough and had been uh in the.

Speaker 8 (47:44):
World long enough to know to.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Get a whiff of what revolutions sounds like or smells like,
looks like. So when I saw the scripts coming across
the desk, scripts that dealt with you know, aides, or
the scripts that dealt with abuse, uh, you know, scripts
that dealt with some of the issues, you.

Speaker 8 (48:09):
Know, with the war.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
You know, these were scripts and stories that were revolutionary.
And the revolutionary fact was from the top down it
was all black people.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Except for your first wife that we never saw right right, Oh,
you forgot that about different.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
World, but even revolutionary, right exactly, And it was and
it was even that was revolutionary. And so I was
I was one of those who who who realized that
that's what was taking place, and my head went off
to the Cosbys were taking that stance and fighting those

(48:55):
that were, you know, opposed to some of the positions
that we were talking about, some of the things we
were talking about, you know, and keeping us never less
than number five in the ratings for seven years. The
kudos that usually goes with that kind of uh, sustainability

(49:16):
and that kind of uh, you know, stewardship, we got
none of the We got none of those kudos.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
I don't know I feel that people are slowly rediscovering
it now that it's on Amazon, so so yeah, I
feel as though that people are rediscovering that that series
in a different way and sort of under a different
lens than when it was previously on thirty years ago.

(49:46):
Definitely with how they handled subjects, Like there were some
episodes I didn't even remember them covering.

Speaker 7 (49:53):
You're like the Freddy episode, the like which shot the
date rate, the shaza was it that there was one with.

Speaker 9 (50:01):
Well no no where a time act?

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah, the first one of the first season when Dwayne
all that one.

Speaker 6 (50:08):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I was gonna ask him what his favorite was there
a favorite storyline for your for your character, for Colonel Taylor.

Speaker 8 (50:16):
For Colonel Taylor.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
I love the one that Blair Underwood and I did
when he.

Speaker 8 (50:24):
Was golf war.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
And when he came to Colonel Taylor to ask to
let him know that he was afraid, you know, going
into war. You know, I thought that that was so
powerful and what that whole thing was about. It was
so it was it was the essence of patriot. You know,
we we do as a black people don't think in
terms of being patriotic. We don't think we're patriotic because

(50:49):
no one else looks at us as patriotic. But we're
very patriotic as a people.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
We were part of every fight they let us be
in huh said, we were a part of every battle.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
They let us be every battle, every battle from the
very first gun shot from the revolution, from the Revolutionary War.
Don't look at ourselves that way. And uh so we're
always clamoring to be thought of as that, and all
the evidence points to everything otherwise. And this was a wonderful,

(51:24):
wonderful expose of disenfranchised people doing what was patriotic. And
it was right during the war, I mean, the war
was going to what was going on right at that time.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
It gave us a perspective on TV we never get
to see. We don't like you said, we don't see
us in it and how we're thinking and stuff.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
That was how we're thinking about it. So it's it
was wonderful, you know, And and the show was just
a fantastic show.

Speaker 6 (51:54):
Misster.

Speaker 7 (51:54):
I wanted to ask you about your time the time
with Areta, when you guys would together, y'all would like
the first Instagram Cob, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah, yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Yeah, they were, y'all.

Speaker 5 (52:08):
Were like that spread with them.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, jet ebony jets jet ya the jet yet Yeah yeah,
what was that period in your life?

Speaker 6 (52:22):
Like, man, what was it like?

Speaker 4 (52:24):
Well, when it was good, it was the very best
of times, you know, it was the very best of times.
We remain friends for all those years, thirty five years
after we were married. Uh so we had a wonderful,
wonderful relationship. And it was some points that was just unbelievable.

(52:46):
You know, some things you can't you can't be relieve,
you can't really even imagine. You know, there's some some
some directions your life takes and you really have to
sometimes step outside yourself and say what, how what am
I doing here?

Speaker 10 (53:02):
You know, I feel like that right now.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
It had to be good because I know in your filmography,
those are the years that you took a break, like
you was just like, I'm well.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
No, because no, there were tough that that that you know,
there were tough times. Okay, there were tough times, not
that we had the option to take a break. You
have to remember that disco came on the scene at
that time as well. All of the soul singers were
in dire straits as well.

Speaker 6 (53:36):
Because, uh, they were struggling.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
Yeah, they were struggling. There was a struggling time. There
was a paradigm shift in the whole music uh world,
as well as the black explortation movies were trying to
be replaced. I was at an age where I was
coming out of a young man and now into a
leading man area, you know. So there was a struggle

(54:02):
in that aspect, which all actors go through if they're
in the game long enough and start young enough, you know. So,
I'm not in a business where you take a break.

Speaker 6 (54:16):
You Now, you don't take a break. The business takes
a break from you from you, right man?

Speaker 7 (54:25):
What do you think I watched you and your you
and your your current wife on on Black Love and Interview.

Speaker 6 (54:33):
Yeah, say, now that was a beautiful interview.

Speaker 7 (54:35):
What do you think you learned from from you know,
from the marriage within then just you know, other marriage.
What were you think some of the key lessons you
learned in those early marriages that prepared you for your
current marriage with your wife.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
Now, one of the key ingredients to a relationship is
liking the person that you're in a relationship with.

Speaker 6 (54:59):
You eight told us that, yeah, house with somebody your
own life, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
You could be locked up in this twenty twenty situation
with somebody you don't like, you know. I think that
that's what over the years that I've learned out of
three marriages is that liking the person makes it is
a key ingredient. So you know, I like this person
that I'm with here, you know, and we build.

Speaker 8 (55:28):
On that well.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Since he mentioned that he hasn't been auditioning since the nineties,
this has changed my way of thought totally, since you
totally pick out what you want to do. So before
Bill gets we get to the wire questions. I just
got to know the role House sublies. Don Cheeto's daddy,
just tell me.

Speaker 8 (55:48):
A little later.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
I know it came later, but you've taken too long
to get to the wire. So I just got to
know why, Why did you decide that that was a
role for you? And what was it about the role
that made you go, oh, yeah, I'm an I want
to do that?

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Very simple, Don J said, I want Glenn Turman to
play my daddy.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
I mean, you daddy. I feel like, in an acting.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
Sense, wasn't a hard choice at all. You know, I
love John I'm a fan of his work that at
this stage in the game, the young people and saying
that they want Glenn Turman to be a part of
the show.

Speaker 8 (56:24):
I'm flatted on it, and so I brought it.

Speaker 10 (56:32):
All right, So let's talk about the Wild may Sir,
I would like to say, talk.

Speaker 15 (56:41):
To me about donated to your campaign.

Speaker 8 (56:47):
I don't believe one of you I didn't voice.

Speaker 16 (56:53):
Other than being a fascinating character. What is it like
coming into a pre existing series, way like a few seasons,
a few seasons into it, in a particular series like
that where every season changes, it doesn't change, you know,
but has a different plot line and making an impact.
Because Mayor Royce was a super impactful character, even though
it was many seasons into the thing, and all of

(57:14):
these characters had already been established and then all of
a sudden you come along and you have an impact
as well.

Speaker 9 (57:19):
What was the what was.

Speaker 16 (57:20):
That process like? That was a very actory question. It
sounded like an actor. I'm not an actor. That was
a real actor question. There you go, all right.

Speaker 8 (57:27):
David Simon is a genius the producer of the Why
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
And he's got such insight into his characters.

Speaker 8 (57:39):
He knows all of his.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Characters inside and out. I had a conversation with him.
He was he was wonderful in the way he cared
for the characters. That that that he was pointing out
to me, and how he got there, and what he
thought about Mayor Royce, that it was actually the mayor

(58:02):
that was the mayor at the time in Baltimore, and
that I was playing actually him. To give you an
idea of how precise David Simon is. I came to
that show while doing another show, a motion picture. I

(58:22):
was doing a motion picture in Morocco, and it was
one with Penelope Cruz and scl Sahara and Matthew McConaughey.
And during a break in that filming, I booked the wire.

(58:44):
But in that filming I had a go tee And
so the first day of shooting, the directors saying, well, Glenn,
we need you to shave your go tee. I said,
I can't because I have to go back and finish
this motion picture that I'm doing. So Hearah and they've
got first first digs on me. So I've got to

(59:07):
I've got to do. You know, Look, the way I've
looked in that show. On the spot, Simon says, Okay,
tell you what next season, there's going to be an
election runoff, a big election with a younger guy.

Speaker 6 (59:27):
I know where you yes yes.

Speaker 8 (59:29):
With a younger character, Carsetti.

Speaker 6 (59:33):
You go.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
Into the script that because he's younger, you're trying to
look younger with with the with the for the for
your constituents, shave off your your your yes. And that's
what he did. But he saw that on the spot.

Speaker 8 (59:55):
A year before it happened.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean he solved that just like that
on the spot. That's how I hit That's how telescopic
his vision is. You know, so, how do you not
be a part of somebody who's leading the charge like that?

Speaker 8 (01:00:16):
You want to be a part of something like that? Wait?

Speaker 16 (01:00:18):
I got a question along those lines, like, what's the
difference between a script that's super specific, clearly, like one
that's like a David Simon one versus one that's not
versus one where where the actors ask to put way
more into it versus just reading what's on the page
or just responding to what's.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
On the page.

Speaker 16 (01:00:34):
Is there a how do you how do you do
you favor scripts that go one way or the other,
or how do you react to each of.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
Them with the Wire?

Speaker 8 (01:00:42):
Now, you have to understand actors are the vainous people
in the world.

Speaker 16 (01:00:46):
No, No, I know that they're most of my friends.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
But you also know that when actors get scripts, the
first thing they do is some through it to get
to their part.

Speaker 7 (01:00:57):
Yeah, my life, my line bullshite.

Speaker 8 (01:01:03):
With every script of the Wire. I read every script.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
From beginning to whether I was in it or not,
because it was like reading a book.

Speaker 8 (01:01:15):
That's your difference.

Speaker 9 (01:01:16):
Have you kept off of your scripts or are you?
Do you have to give them all back?

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
Yeah, I've got I've got him here in my office
from the Wire, Yeah, a lot of them.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
Do you find that the wires the I think for
black people it's still for black people at a certain
age it's coolly high. But do you are you shocked
at the amount of white people that love the Wire
as much?

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
Well?

Speaker 10 (01:01:44):
I don't know what you're talking about, is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
That white people show.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
No, I'll go if I go into uh to office
to talk about a script with producers or whoever, the
director will zoom through what we're there to talk about.

Speaker 9 (01:02:04):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
And then the first question after that is, so tell
me about the wire.

Speaker 8 (01:02:11):
And I'm there.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
I'm there for another half an hour, asking questions like
you just asked me brother, you know wow, still just
ask and we go into the wire and that's black,
white or anything, it doesn't matter. That's the way that's been.

Speaker 10 (01:02:24):
I was gonna say, can.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
You predict, depending on what situation you're in, who's going
to come up to you and ask you which character?
Like I'm in the grocery store, so I know you
know it's going, you know, the conversation about Omar, right right?

Speaker 15 (01:02:37):
Yeah, do you remember the day if you remember what
you can tell us the day of you shot the
scene where you're caught in an uncompromising position, a position
in the office.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
I don't know what you're talking about, pay, I don't
know what you're talking about.

Speaker 6 (01:03:09):
The rules was a savage, he was.

Speaker 15 (01:03:14):
Mean.

Speaker 6 (01:03:15):
So h man. That was like a great role.

Speaker 7 (01:03:17):
I think that just spoke the so many for me
in particular, it spoke to me seeing you in that
role because up until that time, uh, you know, I
had only seen you in you know, kind of I
guess what you consider good guy Rose like Colonel Taylor.

Speaker 6 (01:03:31):
That was a great role.

Speaker 7 (01:03:32):
But yeah, he was very dignified, but you know in
the wire that was just somebody you were so conflicted,
you know what I'm saying. It's like he wasn't just
a straight good guy, but you know, he wasn't a
bad guy.

Speaker 6 (01:03:45):
Like he just had like all them showing he was
a politician. He's a politician in every sense of the word.

Speaker 7 (01:03:51):
Like when my favorite scene, you know, you when they
were when Bunny Covin they find out that, you know
that what he's been doing with Amsterdam, and everyone is
in the office and they just everybody talking shit, everybody's
raising hell and the mayor is just sitting back and
you just looking at the numbers like fu like that's

(01:04:12):
all he cares about, you know what.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
What was what was interesting about that was, like I said,
I got to meet the mayor God I can't remember
his name right now, who was the mayor at that time,
and he was actually in that scene, so well he
what I asked him about that the whole incident with
the legalizing uh that district for for the drugs, and

(01:04:40):
he said, I made a horrible mistake. I said, what
was that? He says, I framed that whole thing as
a drug zone, and I should have framed it as
a as a medical epidemic. Urt Hurt Smoke right right,

(01:05:02):
you got it, You got it, You got it, Smoke said,
I should have framed the whole thing as a as
a medical problem. If I got use it as a
medical problem, I would have been able to get away
with it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
I want to know if you know, because of the
critical claim that the show had and the fact that
it just completely got snubbed during the Emmys, did you
guys ever feel a certain way about that?

Speaker 8 (01:05:33):
Yeah, that's miss Joanne. She's been asking about you.

Speaker 6 (01:05:36):
What's up, missne What up?

Speaker 7 (01:05:39):
We loved your Black Love Love, thank you?

Speaker 6 (01:05:48):
Okay, fun, Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 5 (01:05:52):
Now, I was saying that the fact that the show
was so critically acclaimed and so well loved, were you
guys at all disp pointed that you you know you,
I wouldn't say blackballing, but the fact that the Emmy's
refused to recognize you guys as the powerhouse that you
were as far as the Emmys were concerned with the wire.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
Yeah, I never understood that it was other than that
there was like twenty six black major players on this show.
You know that had never happened before, but they just
would not give the propers. They would not give the
propers and I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (01:06:30):
Well, speaking of which, your role as in How to
Get Away with Murder, you were nominated this year for yeah,
an Emmy.

Speaker 9 (01:06:40):
What did that feel like?

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
Like is that important to you at all to get
recognized by your peers or uh.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Sure, absolutely, absolutely that's important. I don't take that for
granted at all. You know, I've been blessed to have
been the recipient of several wonderful awards, you know, I
mean being a being a crown jewel, so to speak,
you know, the one that I won, the one that
I'm was nominated for. So no, I don't you know

(01:07:09):
when your peers hold you up like that, you know,
that's that's just something as a young actor, as a kid,
you know, you're looking in the mirror and you're practicing,
you're accepting speeches. You know, that's all that's real, you know,
So then all of a sudden, there it is for real,
and it's like you get up there and you're like
tongue tied, you know, nervous.

Speaker 7 (01:07:31):
And I thought about like JD's Revenge. It made me think,
have you, and Luca said, Java worked together again.

Speaker 6 (01:07:38):
After that, we worked you know, Lou.

Speaker 4 (01:07:42):
The first time Lou and I worked together was in Raisin.

Speaker 10 (01:07:45):
In the Sun.

Speaker 6 (01:07:46):
Ah right, yeah, because he was one of.

Speaker 4 (01:07:49):
The characters in the Raisin in the Sun. So I've
known Lou. He's been a big brother of mine since
I was twelve years old. So then again we did
the River Niger.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
With Niger, which is a country.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Yeah, okay, thank you, with James L.

Speaker 8 (01:08:13):
Jones and Sicily Tyson.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Putting on my watch list, and then we.

Speaker 8 (01:08:19):
Did uh uh.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
J D's Revenge uh after that, and we've been you know,
he's always been a big brother kind of figure for me.

Speaker 5 (01:08:30):
Who who is your? Who's your You're starting five? You're
you're inner circle? Like besides Ben Vereen, like, do you
have a circle of peers that you're tight with it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
We've got a road Dog road Dog crew, like black Is.

Speaker 17 (01:08:49):
I say, like black Is Yeah, yeah, right right, yeah,
we got a road Dog crew that we we we
all stay in touch and even through this pandemic, we
talk every Sunday, you know, and some you know and
some you wouldn't.

Speaker 8 (01:09:05):
Maybe not necessarily no, although most.

Speaker 6 (01:09:09):
The crew, who's Who's the crew.

Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
Well, gosh, I don't want to go into before leave
somebody out.

Speaker 6 (01:09:19):
Listening.

Speaker 9 (01:09:26):
Okay, well, well let's just flip.

Speaker 11 (01:09:28):
I have a question, Sugar, Steve here, Steve, you were
in Gremlins, which nobody brought up yet.

Speaker 9 (01:09:37):
Yes you were actually four, Yes you were.

Speaker 11 (01:09:41):
What are your memories of that? Was that a fun
movie to be involved in?

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
Gremlins was great to be involved in because, Sugar, that
was the first time that that kind of puppet was
made for the screen, so the eyes rolling and everything.
There were about five or six people underneath the table

(01:10:06):
with a hole in the table for the cables and
everything to go to the puppet for the magua and
all of them to operate my eyes and to operate.

Speaker 8 (01:10:15):
Their ears and all that kind of stuff. So it
was fascinating.

Speaker 4 (01:10:19):
Now, then you cut forward to a movie I just
did last year. It's just come out as it's only
been out maybe a year. A Bumblebee is another Stephen
Spielberg movie. My second thing is my second Steven Spielberg movie.
And the technology has changed so much now we're doing giants.

Speaker 8 (01:10:42):
Right, big big bumble Bee.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
Those those robots, you know, those big robots that change
into cars.

Speaker 8 (01:10:49):
And change into this and changing too that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:53):
They're gigantic, right, but they're really just for Eyeline, for
the actor.

Speaker 8 (01:11:01):
A tennis ball on the end of a tall stick.
That's all you're.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
Looking at, and that's up in the air, and you're
acting to this thing. And then they put all of
it together in post. But when we did the Grimlins,
those little gadgets were right there, you know, and table
there's six six dudes under there working some facet of

(01:11:29):
the gadget, you know. So I said, wow, you know,
I said, what a what a change in times? You know,
it was really interesting. It was really fascinating to be
a part of that.

Speaker 11 (01:11:39):
You are, and they're still using puppets over at Sesame
Street Bill, I mean, what's going on with you guys?

Speaker 10 (01:11:45):
The old school stuggar? I don't tell you.

Speaker 8 (01:11:49):
I have one more question.

Speaker 11 (01:11:51):
What can you tell me about Honky your first movie
from nineteen seventy was waiting for.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
It.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
I feel like was first waiting for you to be
specific on which one, but then he was all the
move bait.

Speaker 8 (01:12:09):
I can't tell you much, man, I can't tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
I can't share sugar. That was a long.

Speaker 6 (01:12:18):
Man.

Speaker 7 (01:12:19):
I was just gonna ask you about you know, because
we were able to see uh, you know my Rainey's
and man, like your performance in that, like you know great,
you know what I'm saying, just as everything, but you know,
just your you with with Chad with I mean you
know that being his last film, Man, what was that like,

(01:12:40):
you know, working with the last time?

Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
Yes, And here's what you got to understand. All those
fight scenes and tussling and him lifting me after after
the end of that whole thing. We did that maybe
twenty times.

Speaker 6 (01:12:55):
Wow, what was in it?

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
He was magic. I don't even want to use magic.
That's just I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
Because and I was as dead weight as I could be,
and he was literally holding me up and picking me up.
And we did several different takes, several different angles, several
different moments, and he just went for it every single time.
And we had no idea that he was sick. I

(01:13:25):
just kept saying to myself, damn, this is strong.

Speaker 8 (01:13:29):
You know, And he was.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
He was just strong, strong, willed, you know, he willed
himself to do all of that. So I just I
miss him already. You know. He was wonderful. We had
a great, great time. He had a great sense of humor.
I used to tease him and Simon his wife when
I first he first introduced me to her. You know,

(01:13:56):
they were such a cute couple and uh so I
had a great with them, and uh and his work
ethic was just it reminded me of me back in
the day.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
You know, I was gonna say you not for nothing.
It's so eerie to me. And looking back at his
filmography that it seems like he was very purposeful and
the roles and the projects that he chose and was
a part of, and especially in the sense of his
commitment to his people, and it just made me think
of you as well as how you became very purposeful
in your roles. And I was curious if y'all had

(01:14:30):
a conversation between the two of you guys about that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
No, he was a coolie, big coolie HI fan, you know,
and so he wanted to know a lot of questions
about Coolie high.

Speaker 8 (01:14:41):
But he was just he was just a dedicated performer.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:14:47):
Do you have a lot of the younger guys like
coming to you for advice, like like young black actors
or you because you seem very much kind of just
you know, a og in the game. Do you have
the people, you know, the younger actors come just.

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
That happens quite a bit. That happens quite a bit,
you know. I try to try to feed the you know,
I was lucky I had the James Earl Joneses or
the Sydney Poitiers who I could always call, you know
and go to wow and you know, so I tried
to reciprocate that same spirit.

Speaker 7 (01:15:20):
What were some of the biggest lessons you learned from
James and Sydney.

Speaker 4 (01:15:24):
Well, I told her. I ran into Sydney Poitier. I
was a struggling actor. We had done and raising in
the sun. And now I've graduated high school. I'm about
nineteen years old. I'm struggling, trying to get the next job,
trying to find a job. Nothing's happening. I'm going uptown.
I was a truck dripper in New York and I'm
taking a load of furniture uptown and I see Sydney

(01:15:48):
coming out of a out of a restaurant on Seventh
Avenue in the fifties, and I immediately say, oh my god, Sydney,
I pull over, you know, and I got all this
furniture and everything that is big at this truck, you know,
and I pull it over and I jump out, and
I'm all.

Speaker 8 (01:16:06):
Dirty and grammy, I've been lifting furniture all day.

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
And he comes out and he's all clean and shop
and everything. You know, he coming out of there, going restaurants,
you know. And I said it's Glenn, and he kind
of looks Glynn. Remember Travis, I'm raising him. Son.

Speaker 8 (01:16:22):
Oh how are you?

Speaker 4 (01:16:24):
I said.

Speaker 9 (01:16:28):
Spot On?

Speaker 8 (01:16:29):
I said fine, Bye, I said, s fine.

Speaker 4 (01:16:32):
I said, man, I'm you know, I graduated performing arts
high school. You know, I'm trying to do my thing.
You know, I'm just driving the truck right now. I'm
auditioning and blah blah blah. What can you tell me
about the business man? What do I need to know?
He said, study math on all the way back to math.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Right, yes, I said, we suck it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
My yeah right right, studying man, Yeah, yeah, I got that.

Speaker 8 (01:17:07):
I got that, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
And he took off, you know, down the street, and
he's gone. He's wishing like disappears, you know, and I'm like, studying, man,
study What the is he talking about? Studying man? Study?

Speaker 8 (01:17:24):
Man?

Speaker 4 (01:17:24):
That's ship studying man. Drive. You just don't want to
tell me, well, this is a business. It's called show business.

Speaker 7 (01:17:39):
Count your paper paper, I see, that's it.

Speaker 9 (01:17:47):
Wait before we close.

Speaker 5 (01:17:50):
You know, as I mentioned, you're you're dropping us with
the two for of course my Rainy being one of them,
but fogs your work on Fargo Doctor Senator, which which
hopefully will be sending you back to vm me's next.

Speaker 8 (01:18:07):
Year from your list.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Say it again, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:18:12):
It's it's it's I already see it happen. I'm I'm
putting it out there. Yeah, just in the fact that
they're telling a black storyline, like no one was more
shocked than I was. So how did this come to be?

Speaker 9 (01:18:28):
How? How did this come to fruition?

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
I picked up the phone and running rang. My agent said,
we've got an offer for you to do a Fargo.
I said, send me, and they sent me the script
and I said, I'm in.

Speaker 9 (01:18:44):
Were you familiar with the series at all before?

Speaker 8 (01:18:46):
It's a movie?

Speaker 4 (01:18:47):
And uh, I'd watched an episode here, in an episode there,
but not really into it, you know. But once I
signed on, you know, I got all of the episodes
and binge binge watched all of When I got there,
I met Noah Howley, who was brilliant young man, and uh,
he just you know, he and I just talked. I

(01:19:10):
loved what he was saying. I loved what he was
talking about in terms of and it was not deep.
Everything was really rather rather simple. But he obviously to
give you an idea of how his mind works in
terms of details. Just I just watched this last episode.
You know, I'm deadn't going about I'm still uh, you know,

(01:19:35):
he had a thing in every way he said. I'm
paraphrasing now, but one of the one of the black
characters says, I don't think it was Chris, something about
I got to get out of here and I'm going
to go get some greens.

Speaker 8 (01:19:48):
Now, that's that's that's a white guy, right.

Speaker 4 (01:19:50):
Oh, no.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
Scars on their head like.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
You know.

Speaker 8 (01:19:58):
So he's he's so to the nuances.

Speaker 4 (01:20:03):
It's about the nuances of his scripts and his characters.
It's the nuances that make that make the characters so interesting,
you know.

Speaker 8 (01:20:15):
And he's brilliant at that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:17):
You know, and that those are what's so fun to
play Doctor Sennerstor's nuances.

Speaker 8 (01:20:21):
We're just so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
So, but answer this question, Glenn. In the beginning of
far Ago, it says, this is true, some of the
things have been changed. But please, can you please tell
me if any it is true that the black Man
create the credit card.

Speaker 8 (01:20:37):
Come on, it's been a pleasure.

Speaker 9 (01:20:50):
Where you go?

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Before you go, can I just say, how poetic does
it feel that you started out and raising in the
sun with Lorraine and you now brought Uh? I was
going August Wilson second, like a second play to the
film to film? Like what does that feel like? Like?
I said that really nice in articulate.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
Yeah, it feels great.

Speaker 8 (01:21:12):
It feels great.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
Well, it just it just feels great.

Speaker 8 (01:21:16):
And you know, it's all so great.

Speaker 4 (01:21:18):
But to be here with you guys, to see you
guys doing your thing, all of you together, doing your thing,
asking great questions, got it, got your own thing going on.
I love seeing this. You have to understand that it
wasn't always like this. So you guys are real. You

(01:21:39):
guys are my heroes.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
We stand on your shoulders, sir, thank you question like supreme,
We are heroes.

Speaker 5 (01:21:47):
Well, we thank you very much, uh for sharing your
stories and and and your creativity and and thank you always.

Speaker 6 (01:21:58):
Making us look good man.

Speaker 8 (01:21:59):
Yeah, yes, like.

Speaker 9 (01:22:03):
We appreciate that.

Speaker 5 (01:22:04):
Yeah, So on behalf of Sugar Steve on pay Bill
fan Tickeolo and la Yea. This is Quest Love signing
off from Quest Love Supreme, the Great Glenn Terman. Definitely
see my rainees black.

Speaker 9 (01:22:21):
Black Bottom.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
It's not nasty.

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
Well it is though it is.

Speaker 5 (01:22:27):
I had a momentary lapse of reasons. Yes, and also yes, mom,
Rainey's black Bottom. Definitely must see and uh yeah, support
them in Fargo and yeah we I'm calling it now.

Speaker 9 (01:22:37):
This Yeah, it's it's it's in me time for this
entire season.

Speaker 13 (01:22:40):
Yeah, I'm calling it.

Speaker 5 (01:22:43):
The Great Glen termin Ladies, gentlemen, thank you very much,
this question of Supreme signing off.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
Hey, this is Sugar Steve.

Speaker 11 (01:22:51):
Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at
qu l s and let us know what you think
and you should be next to sit down with us.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
Don't forget to subscribe.

Speaker 8 (01:23:01):
To our podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
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