QLS Classic: Kevin Liles

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey,
what's up y'all? List you man, Fonte, Fontigo, New Takolo, Nicotin,
Takelo and right now. This is yet another Quest Love
Supreme classic from February, first seen pre Roll when we
sat down with hip hop mogul Kevin Loud where he

(00:23):
talked about the early Baltimore scene, his rise to president
of def Jam at the value of hard work, and
also a lot of people didn't know his little his
very little known role in writing a song called Girl.
You know it's true. This is an amazing episode, so
listen check it out, y'all know where to get it. Fontakolo,
Quest of Supreme classic, Dessert Suprema, roll Call, Suma, Suprema

(00:59):
rod called Subprima, sub Frema roll call, sub Prima some
sub Prima rogue card and course love Girl Yeah, I
am course love Girl, Yeah, I am course love girl. Yeah.
And this is true Subprima road call, sub Brima, Subrima

(01:22):
road All. My name is Fonte, Yeah, feed me seymore Yeah,
shout out to all my yea niggas I and be more.
Sub Frema roll call sub Prima subprima roll car name
is Sugar Yeah with Kevin Lyles. Yeah, Quest love Suprema. Yeah,

(01:45):
don't change that tile rob Brima subrima rog call, sub
prima sub prima roll call on pay Bill, Yeah, going
wild Yeah, Quest loves Supreme. Yeah, Kevin Moro calla Brima

(02:06):
road call, Prima Frema road call. It's like yeah, yeah,
having nothing lady. Yeah, but these dudes got damn rod
almost road Prima Prima road called. Receiver's whack. Yeah, say

(02:29):
it's about Bill. Yeah yeah, I said that ship. Yeah,
just keeping it real. Road road call my name iss Kevin, Yeah,
I guess I'm here. Yeah, I want to tell you. Yeah,
I have no fear. Rolla sub Frema road call, frima

(02:58):
road called spell you weary road. Oh that's so much
just happened. That's first of coldown. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome

(03:27):
to Engineer All Opinion video. Now calmdown, come to Quest
of Smoking. Come on, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another
edition our first February Black History month. Bruary to uh
Quest of Supreme. Then I say February with a brew.
I don't know because I say February, but without the brew. Yeah, yeah, February.

(03:50):
It's weird Wednesday. Those are like names that like it's
like a black teenage mother name those like. This is
all these extra letters in part of Africa's in February
comes from I stole that from the pound cake speech
from Bill Cosby. Bill Cosby, Oh my god. Uh well

(04:20):
you know this this is uh well, it's not necessarily
a special edition, of course, love supreme. But we have
a very special guest, um who in my opinion, uh,
he's the example of true excellence, entireless determination and work
and long hours um from interning in the mail room

(04:44):
to ordering in the lunch room. I feel like Jesse
Jackson in the mail room, to order in the lunch room,
to room to meeting firing iron in the boardroom. Ladies
and gentlemen, please give it up for Mr Kevin LIUs.

(05:05):
Welcome about the welcome man, Okay, I have to say,
first of all, thank you for accepting and clearing your schedule,
because you are probably the hardest working executive I've ever known.
I can tell you know so I do I do

(05:28):
my research. Really, I mean to me that the difference
between you and another well known uh public figure CEO.
Is that you're not about the spotlight. You're the one
that didn't want to be up on all the videos
and dancing. Can I ask you, once you realize that
that was allowed, did you like regret like, well, I'm

(05:49):
the one that actually had the hit. I can't dance,
So I'm good. No, I'm good. I enjoy the culture,
enjoy the opportunity that that that God gives me. And
I'm miss a worker, you know, I don't. I think
you lead by example. You don't just um do it
for the job, but do it for the glory. I

(06:10):
think there's a lot of gut before the glory, you
know what I mean. So that's me, you know, I
mean just based on your history and where you know
a lot of your lean years, the work that you
put in. Um, I had to also say that you
also might be a glutton for punishment because we're gonna
get into that. We're gonna get into that. Um take

(06:33):
a little bro. What up? Happy February? Happy February? It
is it's black history buff right, it's black Wait? Why
is it? I thought we were last month? Because because
I'm black, you know, I'm real, real black. So have
you know just you yea in this room? How your
blackness get to claim the whole month on the Kanza episode? Bro,

(06:57):
this is still about Klanza because your own that was
a long time ago. But we regret that because I
had to look up who uh that? Who's the Carina? No,
the person that you talked to York Chi. No, what
happened on a previous episode was that Fante like to

(07:19):
compare the founder of York and that's the that's the rabbit.
How come I are you late? Yeah? I was late.
I'm also in my forties, so why would have to
know about Joey and the camera? Yeah? I only know
just from Twitter that you know. That was how I
found out my research on Quae. This is why because

(07:44):
I'm black. I mean, you know, once Chuck Woolery agreed
with the Fante then and we'll be back into Okay, okay, okay, anyway,
Mr Liles, Um, we usually start with the timeline at
the beginning. So you're you're from be more correct, yes,

(08:06):
be more You're claiming Baltimore too, I'm I'm sorry, sir.
I should say yes because I went to Morgan State,
so every city when in Baltimore, don't. They're very different. Well,
cousin the cousins, you know, we were family always like
each other. Shout out to Buzzy. You know, I'm I'm

(08:29):
I got a lot of family in d C. You know,
a lot of family and be more. The whole d
m V is like I've made my tracks there, so
you know, I love all of it. You know, you
know I'm coming. I'm surprised you still have your Baltimore accent,
like I still hear your twos and you you cut
me up and I'm be more. You know that. That's
just what it is. And I've been accepted, uh here

(08:50):
in New York. I've made a twenty five years, so
it's like, you know, I'm getting New York to you
know what I mean. So, but you cut me up
and I'm being more forever. I didn't know that too.
And you that's a joint, that's a join or that's
I don't think Baltimore has a dawn. It's just the
what do you call the you know what? Though? Okay,

(09:10):
not that I should hold near and dear what. I
don't want to be that person that references the wire
like well, on the wire, I saw, but I actually
heard Snoop's character used the word John when describing UM
like wiggle it jiggle it came on young. Wait was

(09:31):
yes he was? Did you sign him? No? You were
still there? I was there, Okay. I thought because of
Baltimore you were there. Okay, Well yeah, basically like Snoop
use the word John. She might have said Joe because
Joe is kind of like but no, she meant like,
that's my joint us that to yeah, Yo, you know,

(09:55):
I'll use yo for everything. Yo. I thought you was
a New York thing as But I appreciate you because
you you still go back. You would just at Morgan
like writing that recently, Like you constantly go back and
get back to ye And I try to tell people
you're nothing without bringing people with you. So I just
go as a beacon of light. We're raising two fifty

(10:16):
million dollars for UM Morgan and if you go there.
When I went there, you know, we stayed at Commings
and now it's like one of the top you know,
five universities for engineers, the number one African American UM
University for engineers, you know what I mean. So I'm
a former engineer, so it's as a blessing to go
back all the time. My whole family is there too,
so it's like the most up north HBCU as well. Yes, yes, man,

(10:41):
you are really giving back, Like I feel bad, Like
I think I gave a drum set to my high school.
Whatever bore you are there? Yeah everything, Yeah, that's my
my city. You know, one thing when you come from
humble beginnings and you know, like I tell people, most
of my journey comes from real life ship you know

(11:01):
what I mean? So like I didn't, I've been in it.
You know, you talk about the why that was my
that was the error, you know what I mean of
like my uncle's and everybody and and for for me
to be here and um just talk about it, still
talk about my city. UM just recently keen on Compiter,
who went to Woodland after me, younger than me. Um,

(11:22):
I built the stadium. He would always play for the Falcons.
He came home. He would always do a class for
kids who wanted to play football, track and field and
things like that, and developed a great friendship. And one
thing about Balding. If something ever happened in Bottleware, I
get it. I get it. So not to start off
in but you know, I always gotta be spiritual. Um.

(11:43):
So he was playing for his son and you love
this quest um in a way. Um, but you also
it was a sad moment. But playing for his sign,
made a mistake and hit his head, went into a
coma and that you know, thirty nine years old past.
Now I tell that story because when you talk about Baltimore,
you owe it to where you're from, to always go

(12:04):
back because something it's gonna happen to somebody at some
point in time, and people need light, they need something positive,
they need something. One of the reasons why you do
the show, you know what I mean. People need light,
people need guidance. And you know when people speak about Baltimore,
that's like that's my city. That's like it's really my city,
you know what I'm saying. So to me, um, I

(12:25):
just love and I don't know how I went there.
And then I guess what's on my heart? So fuck it?
So how did you? No? No, no, I mean what
I want to talk about that like my depiction, Like
I used to go to Baltimore a lot, Like I
had an uncle and aunt down there. We go like summertimes,
you know, weekends. There's sort of things. And I didn't
see the Baltimore that's you know, depicted on TV. I mean,

(12:50):
like does it do you feel some sort of way
when you hear the I guess there's somewhat fetishizing of
the Wire culture with other I mean the inside joke
is always like more white people of the Wire than
black people, do you know, like they will. I've seen

(13:11):
many Wire references in every like highbrow comedy show on
TV or whatever it is. It's always like some inside
joke about it. But you know, it's a lot of
people the Wire is like what they feel is Baltimore
And like how do you, I mean, how did you?
What was your Baltimore you growing up? And and like

(13:34):
your experiences with the city all that, all that, all that, um,
and I have to be honest with you. So when
I grew up, it was probably highlight you know, well
the dope scene, you know what I mean, um, and
you know, if you want, it was there. It was everywhere.

(13:55):
I always say, you know, you have the drug store,
the a could lick a store, the church in Thedulk Corner.
It was there. That's that's there. So that's what people
talked about that's what people were. You want to know
how to make money. You wanted to be with that
guy who was on the corner. He always had the
money and he was giving back to the kids, and
that all everything. You that the wire trold a true

(14:17):
depiction of what was happening, and that that the city
at the time to the point where when it got
to where people are saying it's the home of the wire. Um,
Martin O'Malley, who was at that time mayor about to
go for government, a friend of mine said, um, that's
not what I want us to be known for, not
under my you know, my jurisdiction. And he actually went

(14:40):
who was one of the guys to say, hey, we
shouldn't go, you know, we should stop it and do something.
And from that point on, Rich Carton Four Seasons turned
the whole in a harbor. JOHNS. Hopkins invested into Feld's point,
like so many big things that Morgan State went to
a different level. But you know, to say, why I
appreciate life and why I appreciate moments, you know, even
like this, is because I come from very humble beginnings.

(15:03):
I said, I didn't grow up with a silver spoon
in my mouth. My ship was rusted, you know what
I mean, So I know I know what it is.
So it was like that. Though what's crazy is Martin
O'Malley was really depicted in the wire as Mayor Garcetti,
who was very yes, Martin all and these all people,
you know, we're just retired up. She retired herself up,

(15:24):
Senator mc kowlski um and you know you I'm forty
eight now, so I've seen it, you know what I mean,
even from a very young age, you know, back um
mayor smoke. Back then, I was always thought that if
if you had politics, if you could put yourself a
position of power by being around that. And so I've
been with every mayor, governor, city council member the whole

(15:48):
not Also when people got in trouble, I can get
them out. I could always wear some things out. So
it's a it's just a you know, it's it's the truth.
Though I love the Wire, though I loved um. It
was a homen in cultural uh history to me um
for TV, for Hperio. I think it was one of
those soprano moments for our culture, you know, with the

(16:09):
wild So you saw places and those things and just
you saw memories and you and I need to go.
I mean, you not need to take a walk in Baltimore.
And I'm being the the way I'm being serious about
because I think, um I could, I could show you
the owner new I can show you some of the
stuff that was happening back then where it's happening now.

(16:29):
But also mean you can go have tea at the
Four Seasons, you know what I mean? You and I
can go and visit Johns Hopkins and and go to
the Moregan and see the new engineer and building. You
know what I mean. Yeah, I was gonna say, is
it going through a gentile yes occation? And are they
phasing out the residents or is it inclusive? Um? No comment?

(16:50):
Oh no comment, because my apartment was fo I see.
Now let's take let's take a walk this year though
that definitely I would love to do with you. I'm
down you join us, like, yeah, I would love to.
I love to see where Baltimore is gone. I'll go.

(17:12):
I got people in Baltimore. Okay, you can call if
you go down. Yeah, don't everybody. I'm just me and
Bill go. But we're standing in harbor cool me too,
So in your your where does where does music play?
Because before I mean, most people know you as an executive,

(17:32):
but um there there might be millennials or whatnot. Uh,
I don't know that you were actually an artist yourself.
So what was music music's role in your life? And
did did Baltimore really have a music culture? Like well,
I'm okay, I know that there's this whole d M

(17:53):
v idea of this unity thing, but you know, for
most people that I speak to from d C, they're
just claiming Go Go and not Baltimore. And then Baltimore
is like claiming house music and nothing else. And I'm
not sure where in Virginia North Carolina falling down. It
was just everything. Yeah, so you guys had an active

(18:14):
Go Go We didn't. Well, we had it, but it
was it was transplants. I mean, the thing with North
Carolina was that, you know, back to what Kevin was
saying with the the drug trade, Uh, new North Carolina
was you know, it was on the route if you
were going south, so pretty much and we had where
I grew up in Greensboro, we had like a lot
of college It was a college town, so you had

(18:36):
a lot of northerns coming up and going to school
now South and they were bringing the music with him.
So go go, I mean, go go was like crazy.
I mean college was the reason to Yeah, so a
lot of all the go go then, I mean all
the classic you know early eighties, you know New York
hip hop stuff. I mean that's what we were listening to.
So that was why, like when we came out as

(18:57):
a little brother, they were like, y'all don't sound like
y'all from the South, and it was like, well the
South there we were from. That's what we listened to
because that was that was our biggest influence. That's coming
down the seaboard. Baltimore Club though our house music that
didn't make it. The Baltimore Club didn't make it. I didn't.
I didn't figure out the club until it was later
because that was like really hot, I know what I
know as Baltimore house music that made it sort of

(19:20):
entry in the hipsters lives, like two thousand to two
thousand three. Was that always a thing, always a thing,
always the things? So how how far back it depends
when you saw you go? I mean like so with me,
i'm an I started uh m C. But also DJ
the whole thing with New marks. Uh. We had ten

(19:40):
turntables and so we would mix. We would do our
mixes with ten turntables, you know, I mean something. I
would play the bass beating the people scratch records over
top of it and blended and we went around during that.
And then the whole rap thing came with run DMC
and thing and it was like yo, my man said, yo,
you wrap. I said, now I write poets. He said, well,
I rapped, so we're gonna be brought in KG and

(20:03):
I was KG and I was like cool. And then
this was back when Uh in Baltimore there was a
group called We Rock Crew UM, Charm City Crew UM
and a couple of it and we would battle all
over the city, you know what I mean. And so UM,
I don't want to say the house music thing. You
know I did all that too. I mean you can

(20:23):
go like North Avenue record, I maade about the street
that we used to I'm running or down with the cars. Um.
I love that because that was Baltimore music. But what
was really in me was hip hop UM. And I
was like a true fandom. I lost my mind when
I heard some records. And you know, so I can
take you back to when the radio station was w

(20:46):
E B B and all they played was for four
hours the Mac James Show. Two. Now every radio station
time at the station hip hop and on B it's
it's all day, you know. They played every day, you know,
I mean that's everywhere now. But back then, I had
slept on the floor, mixed wrapped. I opened up your
Love This, so I think my record got a little

(21:08):
big or whatever. And so l L was coming to
place called forty six or four Liberty Heights, and so
I opened up for l Out No I'm one. Somebody
pulled a gun. They started shooting in there and up
in up judgment with Tar, he said, yo, y'all crazy.

(21:28):
I said, that's how you girls don't. Don't worry about it.
So but not just him running him. See, I opened
up for salt and pepper. I opened up for um
raw Base rab bas Uh and the vert I went
on tour with. I mean, like when you when you
talk about it, it's like, that's why I know how
to treat an artist, because I know what I know
how I wanted to be treated Will Smith. They actually

(21:48):
they would actually let you left me. I was big
in the city quest I was big I'm arena arena.
Throw your hands in the I was arena big Well no,
just like today, artists, I mean not even today, like

(22:08):
you just come in, you get on the mic, and
then you out, like I can't remember the last time
the BI I met a little brother because like the
Route show got rained out and I was like, all right,
let me walk into artists and shake some hands. When
I was yeah, like I wanta got the demo and
I want to tweet about it or tweet it. Well,

(22:29):
okapelaired about it, but uh, I'm just saying that what
what made you well, not what made you want to
in your mind where you like, Okay, I'm gonna be
a diplomat to these you know, for the city and
and give me these artists. Or it was just like
hip hop was so scarce in the mid to late

(22:51):
eighties that you just had to know every m C
or act that came down. You know what, you know
what it was. I ran the streets, so it's like
I knew everybody. And then the promoters would tell artists say,
you're gonna do the show, but we gotta put this
group New Marks on because they local, they're gonna bring
about you know, tickets and things, so you should put

(23:12):
them on. And the way we used to run because
we DJ on the radio for four or five hours
and we used to do shows. We kind of like
ran the city when it came to music, you know
what I mean. So it's like they just loved having
us open up. And then me always treated it like
a business, you know what I mean. Wasn't about me
hanging out with people or just meeting somebody. I wanted

(23:32):
to have a value proposition, so I made sure when
artists came down that they felt like they got to
be more love, you know what I mean. It was
something special about them coming down. So one artist would
tell another artist that, yo, them kids, you gotta they
can take you where you got to go. They can
get you anything you want and they don't. So that
was really my my mindset. Who Al was in New
Marks Who with other members of the group UM. The

(23:54):
one of the original founders was DJ Spen. He still
plays House of Music today, UM shout out to Spin
and UM beat Master Mole was a kid named Wayne Mallory.
He's married in Florida. Junie jam was one of my
neighbors and his cousin Rod was Rod Rod and KG
you know me. So it was five. It was five
of us. And when it kind of it was at

(24:18):
the time I could I can truly tell you man
that you know, being from Baltimore, and they had had
a certain sound before the house music thing was hip
hop and they started to develop back. I mean Crystal
Waters and the Basement Boys and all like. This was
all stuff that we did. Um I'm coming up. It
was a place called Paradox that people used to go

(24:38):
to for for club music. But then Frank Ski, which
you know, you know, he used to do this thing
called hammer Jacks. Hammer Jacks is a club like it's
like a house of blues. But it was in Baltimore.
And when I tell you we brought you know, and
I started interning for Death Jam that I brought everybody

(24:58):
from DMX Man Method Man Blah blah blah, everybody at
As even when I became the president, brought everybody would come.
We had to do Hamma Jacks. It was like the
spot and they see we had to do. So you know,
although I was you know, I grew up on the
house music, hip hop was always like part of it,
you know what I mean. So I always try to say, Yo, guys,
we really gotta I gotta have that edge with us,

(25:20):
that the thing with us, you know what I mean?
Even though I did the Girl true thing, it's still like,
you know, you gotta have that edge, you know what
I mean? All Right, I wanna let's let's bring up
the elephant in the room right now. Let's all right, well,
let's play the elephant in the room right now. Let's
do it. So what are you doing that? Well, set
back and thought about the things we used to do together.

(25:43):
They really meant a lot to me that you're talking. Yeah, yes,
you know, you know it's true. You know what, even
even though I've heard the on and off uh since

(26:03):
I found out that you were the author of A Girl,
you know it's true. Um. But in preparing for this
interview and listening to it about a good three times,
that was a well crafted song. Thank you. Now, this
is the other thing, Uh, everyone knows about my soul

(26:23):
train addictions. And I happened to be watching an eighties
six episode of a Soul Train with Star Point and
Don and then we're talking about you know, they were
just making a big thing of Merland and Baltimore and everything, like,
you guys the biggest thing to come out there, and
then yeah, you know what I mean, they were embalancing

(26:44):
like yeah, you know, we can't even walk in the
malls all people, um, and then made at the end
of the interview they were like, yeah, we you know,
we want to develop more acts and everything. Like they
really played it like they were the bell of the
ball of of Baltimore area in a and I mean,
you know, they had object they had hit. I think

(27:04):
they were promoting the next joining he wants My Body
or what was the join of Teddy Riley? I want you,
you want you don't, you don't, I can't Teddy Riley
produced their adi A joint. But my point was that, like,
were there being as though they were the biggest act
of the eighties, were they at present a presence at

(27:26):
all in and were they at all in your radar
like during that time period. So you you want to
hear the craziest thing, there's a god star pointing named
Kai Kai did oh I love you? I wait what
seriously he wrote the lyric exclusive exclusive Wow wait a minute.

(27:59):
I I just thought my whole point was that, like
the start point was really claying, like yeah, we just
we're thinking Baltimore. I didn't even know that y'all cross baths.
I was just did we cross path? Bill Petaway Um
who works with Timland Now, Um had this, let's tell
you a little bit about the have this record this track.

(28:19):
And you know I was a rapper, so I wasn't
really didn't write the songs, so you know I do
all that. But um he said, Yo, we probably need
KA to help us do say. I didn't really know
like that, you know what I mean? So he said, yeah,
stop myself. Oh okay, cool, you think I said, let's
right there. So he wrote that part of the record,
and it's wanted to. That's why I say that the

(28:41):
group I had to give them paid respect and and
the other other group was Rasons, you know what I mean.
Dave Druma, the drummer for Rasstions, was my engineer from
my first album. I may actually made an album too,
but we can you can look that up. Like you
recorded in the oxing Hill, Maryland right, oxing Hill, Maryland
Studio Records. The last record it was made in ox

(29:03):
in Hill, Maryland. All Right, I gotta do more homework.
I have to do more homework. Actually wet. We don't,
we don't, we don't have yeah, shout out to the war. Um,

(29:24):
so explain to me the journey of girl. You know
it's true, um for our fans that are born after
nineteen Um, I mean this song was bigger than life

(29:46):
and basically pretty much it was one of the biggest
singles of of for the Aristi label and caused an empire,
Like just the the entire story, Like I want to
know the journey of the song, but then I just
want to know what your reaction was that you helped

(30:08):
build an empire and the fall of that empire and
the scandal that broke out, And I mean, how many
times were you like but that to me, like how
many people came up to you like I thought you
were a gazillionaire because your song? First of all, why
didn't you or did you like how close were you guys?
Did actually trying to bring this to a major or

(30:31):
or take it to a major label? And because it's
a well crafted song, so for a local record, is
a very well crafted song. So his the thing it
was inspired by I need love, I'm taught. Um I UM,
I wasn't doing it to be a big artist like that.

(30:52):
To be honest with you, you know what I mean,
I was doing it because on purpose, or you just
didn't think, oh this song could actually with a hundred
kids through college, or honestly it was just another another record.
It's actually another record. I love more than it. But um,
when creating that record, I knew it was special. I
knew it was special. Every time we would play it,

(31:15):
people would just freak out over and then I knew
when we performed it, it's like the whole crowd saying yeah,
I knew it was special. So we sold like a
hundred thousand copies with Studio Records. And I remember, um,
I'm home chilling and with this girl, and I said,
they've turned the readio off and she said, that's not
the radio. I said, what do you mean, it's not

(31:36):
the ready off? She said no, I said, baby, it's
the readio that I don't have a video for the record.
She said, I know that's not you, but that's that's
that's your record right there. And it was really really
performing my record. That's how I found out on TV.
So so Frank Ferrian for those who don't know, going
in there. All right, So here's the deal. So Frank

(31:57):
Ferrian was Reducer and a member of a seventies funk
outfit called bony m. Um. Steve's laughing because he knows
the story. I'm gonna tell what a side note. I
once thought I was hired to do a bony m
record and the round was bony James. Now I can't

(32:20):
get rid of my BFF. But at the time I
thought I was doing a bony M I was like,
wait a minute, smooth jazz like Marcus Miller anyway, Um,
yeah he I guess he heard this on a German
ninclub and an army base or something like so. Um.

(32:45):
Unbeknownst to me, my label Studio Records, we're getting calls
off from all over the world for Greg True the
new box and instead we want Chrystalist Records came and
said we want to you guys up. I didn't. This
is this is all I found out afterwards to the
court and he uh, he said, well, I want money,

(33:09):
and so he wanted to cash advance and Bluebird, whoever
the label was, gave him the money. But Christmas wanted
to develop the group, but he didn't care about that
part of it. He cared about getting money. So the
label you released it on wasn't your label, per se no, no, no, okay.
So the person who's the head of the label at
that time was a guy named Franco something. I forgot

(33:31):
his name, but he uh sold it to Bluebird. Bluebird
didn't distributed to z y X and the uh what
what do you call that? Denolux countries, UM and Japan
was on some label and Frances on some label. And
in the club they were playing my virgin of the record,

(33:54):
and so uh c w Shaw, who was an Army veteran,
he was in army. He sends me this long letter.
You don't know me. Um, I actually sung your record,
um and millivanilly singing acting like they singing there. He
actually I got a letter from C. W Shaw who

(34:16):
actually said I'm the voice. So he's that guy that's
singing and rapping from from Houston. He said said, I
love you guys. I love your version of it. Um.
They came and asked me to resing the record. He said,
it's not out yet. And so now this is when
the record is eight team many copies and I'm working
on the second album. You know I did I did

(34:36):
that one girls too um, what's my Diane Warren did
blame it on the Range. So we think about what
we're gonna do next with the next album, and then
the whole thing thing blew up. You couldn't have wrote
the story, you know what I mean. You couldn't wrote
the characters in it. So Diane Warren did blame it
on the Rain on New Walks first. No, no, no, no, no,
I'm saying I met her because I had Girl you know,
which was the first single, and she didn't blame it

(34:57):
on the Range. Only one voice for Millian that was
a one. I didn't even realize that that that was
one man. No, he did, he did, he did. It
was really two of him, but I only know the one.
Uh c w shock, so shout out, you know. He
he told me about it, but I didn't know what
was going on. I was making money because I sued
and got my publishing and my writer's stuff back. What
I'm saying like, they didn't even clear it with you.

(35:19):
And I woke up a girl said that's you on
the radio. I want to on the TV. That's how
I found out, and so I had to get a lawyer. Yeah,
hurt beyond and I wouldn't. I wasn't mad. It was
that how can so, how can somebody do that? Like
And it was that that moment that I said, I

(35:40):
don't want to be in the music business. I want
to be in the business of music. It was at
that moment and I changed everything the whole Folks. That
made you want to get behind the camera, behind in
the boardroom instead of in front of the microphones. And
I never wanted to happen again. I never wanted to
happen to to anybody again. You wanted to be this
person because you wanted to protect someone from getting gangd

(36:02):
and and well from from the situation that happened to you. Like, yes,
it really made me want to love the star. Started
to see things differently than I would go to a
show and say, damn, that's a lot of glow sticks.
I wonder how much they cost? Damn um the tickets

(36:22):
prices this, And I would start thinking the business of
everything around me. And so that's what made me go
back and said I'm an intern because I didn't understand enough,
you know what I mean, how how long for a
situation like that, especially without the Internet or something to
help rush the process of information I mean, how long

(36:44):
was it of you crying wolf? Like? Wait, I wrote
this song, I wrote the song and getting an answer
and eventually getting to Clive Davis or like, I can't
even believe that they would be so careless as to
release a song, market a song, sell the song without

(37:07):
checking to see if you know, do some research. Everything's clear.
It's like with us, like even if a miniscule sample,
is it? Wait that laughing in mirror? What's that laughing on? That?
Is that pink Floyd? And you know, like you're you're
you gotta So how long was it from the moment
you heard the record in a eight till like they

(37:29):
finally did right by you and said, well, I don't think.
I don't think. I don't think people ever did did right.
I say, you don't. When you do right, you do
right When you have to sue, that's not doing right,
you know what I mean? So? Oh so that was
the last resort? Did you the first resort? Oh? You
just okay? I'm phil Asbury. Shout out to phil Asbury,

(37:50):
Philadelphia International, phil Asbury. Show them what it is to
be you know, don't don't mess with kids, because I was.
I was when I wrote the record. I think I
was sixteen. I don't even remember, since you're right on
my record that was when the album came out. Okay,

(38:10):
so I'm not sure. I'm not. It's somewhere around there. Um.
I think I wrote it through three originally, me and
my my partner and you know, just a weird time.
But I never I didn't. I didn't play with it
though it wasn't It wasn't. It was something I felt like,
like you said, y'all, you had audacity to not check
do it? So? Eighteen million copies? And then did they

(38:33):
try to deny it? No, you could. No, they just well,
we live in two thousands sixteen, where the lies the truth,
we are not least right. So it's definitely I forgot
where we were. No, I'm just saying, you know, the

(38:55):
lot could be the truth. And you know, Black Hid
in Baltimore says we stole song like it was a
little bit and isn't it a shout out the cloud?
And sad it was never. I never faulted them. I
always fought to Frank ferry On always faulted uh Steve Franco,
the owner Studio Records, because I might be sitting here

(39:16):
as an artist. You know, I mean, if if they
would have did the right thing, you know what I mean,
I could have never did for Green True what what
reliving really did for Girtes? True? You know what I mean.
I'm not wearing tight pants, I ain't jumping up like that.
I mean, I'm not doing this and all that. Those
things that happen, and so I think God makes, if anything,
this is kind of a blessing in the disguise it was.

(39:37):
It was, and I always tell people, if I had
to do it all over again, I would allow it
to happen because a lot of things came out and
I made a lot of money at a young age
off the record. I traveled the world. Off of the record,
I opened up for people who eventually were signed to me.
There I developed friendships that to this day we're raising

(40:00):
kids now, you know what I mean. Became the I
became an intern. Was Arica come the president in seven
years of Definitely because I knew how artists should be
treated because I was one. I traveled, I did did
everything that they could do. So to me, why would
I want to write it differently? I couldn't. I couldn't
imagine doing nothing to it. He had just still the

(40:22):
next one too, if you want you know, all right,
this is of course of supreme. We're here with Kevin
Lyles and he's telling us the story behind the song
he co wrote called Girl. You know It's true? Um
so am I to assume that New Marks kind of
imploded around this time as well? And nah, so you

(40:45):
guys still went strong, Like how long did the group
last time? Well, we went from five members down to
three members. And when we became me and Rod and
DJ Spin and we started to do quote unquote more
uh Baltimore music along with hip hop stuff that I like.
There's a record that we put out. One we made

(41:05):
put on label because we had a little money and
called Marx Brothers Records, And there was a record we
put out called Dropped Down to Your Knees and the
record we call do You Want To? And they were
probably the last records that I made. But we kept
going and doing it. And then again, what made you well,
what was the deciding factor of the straw that broke
the camel's back? Like maybe this isn't the route to

(41:28):
take and I should do something else. Um, the MIDI
Vanili the milivanili thing really paid to play the role
in it. But then the internship at deaf Jam. Um, yeah,
so how does that happen? Like you're at least a
a compensated established figure, and how did you how did

(41:54):
you get in the sights of Russell Simmons for him
to say you're gonna work in the mail room? Was
it just a joke test for you? Like you know,
I'm gonna start you at the very bottom. And literally
remember Jack the Rapper, Remember Impact Wisconsins. I used to
go there and be the mad Rapper. Why why I know?

(42:15):
I want to sign me. I sold records. I did this,
y'all know, that's why wouldn't I was mad, you know?
And then I ran into uh my mentor, West Johnson
um Gard rest his soul. West says, um cab man,
you know when I was in Balton used to play
your records. I said, yeah, welst, I know he used
to play my records. You know what I mean? He said,
you know, I'm the senior vice president of marketing promotions

(42:37):
for Death Dand I said, get out of here. I said, well,
sign me the def Jam. He said, I don't really
sign in promotions. I said, well, give me a job.
He said no, but you can intern. Now what you said,
I was making money, okay, I said, intern intern def
Jam intern. Cool. So west Johnson said, you know what,

(43:02):
I'm had this guy into. He said, by the way,
we're hiring a guy named Kevin Mitchell from Boston. This
is the kind of guy from from Boston, and we're
gonna put him in the mid Atlantic. We like him.
Um uh, and you could intern from him. So I said,
Kevin Mitchell's intern. Kevin Mitchell's intern, Kevin thing. He's gonna

(43:27):
let you know Kevin Mitchell was but for the roots
if you know, of course, like no routes are listening
to my radio show them about this. Um when we
signed to Geffen, I mean basically because there was no staff,
but they had millions. Um they did some unheard of

(43:49):
ship which basically here, you take the credit cards, show
us the receipts. Don't overspend like again, you know, dayls
record was made for like twenty thousand, Cyper Shiel's records
made for sixty. They just gave us an open credit card.
And also like two employees from loud r c A
and three employees from def Jam, which were Francesco Spireau,

(44:11):
Derrick Jackson, and Kevin Mitchell. They would they would uh
moonlight uh with Geffen and my. Our experience with Kevin
was that he was Mr McGoose. He was blind. He
was the cartoon figure that had bottle glasses when he's driving.
One night he was just asleep at the wheel and

(44:33):
we were on the other side of the road like
in dumb and dumber, like he just somehow wound up
with oncoming traffic at three in the morning. We woke
up like like we were going to die. So yes,
but Kevin Mitchell is my man. Besides trying to kill us.
He was. He's a really great friend and and still
a friend to us now. But you were his intern.
I was Kevin's intern, and it was so it was you.

(44:58):
You love the story. So keV didn't know Baltimore whatever.
So keV hits me said West West said you're gonna
help me out and say, Yo, yeah, whatever you need
West my man. Now again, I'm making money. I'm good.
I'm worried about it wasn't the money thing. So Kevin
called me said, Yo, I'm downstairs at um at V
one oh three, but I can't get upstairs. I said,

(45:20):
you can't get upstairs. So what you called me for?
He said, because your man is one Frank. I said yeah,
I said, so you're calling me to get you upstairs
and that's your job. Now they're paying you to do this. Now,
I had a little attitude about it, That's how I said.
So I called Frank Frank yo my man. He one
of us here gooding me. And Frank Frank was my wedding.
That's my my guy guy. So he he said, Kee,

(45:41):
I'll see him whatever you want me to do, blah
blah blah this, and it was that moment. While I
always paid respect to Kevin Mitchell, Kevin got on the
conference call. He would let me listen on the conference
calls to to learn. Kevin said, my intern is gonna
run the company, and you're all can act crazy if
y'all want the because the ship he can put off

(46:01):
here I'm and so that's really how he let me.
He let me live and I did work, but he
let me live. You know, I mean, all right, I'm
gonna let you know something, um because most of the
into the street folklore that at least people my age
know about is the story of of Sean Combs getting

(46:23):
on a train every day at Howard and going to
New York every day, and you know, outtown records, blah
blah blah blah blah. But I'm gonna tell you something.
There's two stories I always heard that set or at
least set me on the path for how I dealt
with interns. You don't even know this. You don't even

(46:44):
know this one was you always heard stories of James Brown.
James Brown used to always tell like all his band members,
find the lowest. He would call him the coffee board,
the water boy. He says. They I guess the term
intern wasn't out back in the fifties or sixties, but
James Brown used to always say, find the coffee board
the water boy, and make him feel like he's on

(47:06):
top of the world because one day, in twelve years,
he's going to be signing your checks. Um My my
inn or Wendy Goldstein told me a story where she
was like, look, we're gonna have to do real grassroots stuff.
It's not gonna be glamorous or whatever. You're gonna do
these college radio shows and stuff, because then we have

(47:27):
lofty goals. It was nine four. You you've seen all
these videos and everything, and you're like, well, when's our
when's our Hype Williams video moment gonna happen? And you know,
we're like nineteen to a van and all this stuff.
And she just told me, like, look, patients, stay the
course and whatever you do, always be nice to the
interns and the lowly people because it's gonna pay off

(47:48):
in ways you don't know. And she told me the
story you know Kevin Long he wrote, you know it's true.
It's still was there. She would tell me these stories
of like, I guess your reputation is that you would
show up to work earlier than anyone and lead the latest,
just to let them know. And she told me that,
and like that stuck with me. It's not like I

(48:12):
was like, WHOA, Okay, well would be nice, but because
it just always stuck with me. And I'll say to
this day, every CEO or ahead of a company that
I've ever done business with, at least in the last
ten years between two thousand and six and two thousand
and sixteen, and I've done a lot of business like

(48:34):
pay my mom a house off business, they it all
starts with the same story that I forget, which is, Hey,
I don't know you don't remember this, but this is
one time we were at Brown University and you know,
I was intern at this college radio station and I
asked you if I could do it, and you gave
me like a nine hour interview. I want in five minutes.

(48:55):
And that's because I always remember really shocked the host
of the podcast. Yeah, well I'm okay, I'm I'm chatty,
but I'm not. I'm just saying that Havin, Kevin and
Wendy and Press, Jessica and Derek like always tell me

(49:17):
make sure that when you go to these coustters you
treat the intern like that stuck with me and you
were like always their example. So I mean you entered
death Chair when so this period um days, man, not quite.
I feel like it was the last I feel like

(49:38):
the last good year of the the old death Cham.
I mean, you know it's kind Yeah that was not
for real. That was classic logo depth jam mare. That
was the last period. So when you were there, what
were your duties as intern? Well, you know, I was
still in Baltimore, so it was whatever Kevin Mitchell needed,

(49:59):
you know what I mean. And at that time we
was Death Comedy Jam was coming and all these things
were being created and Fat Farm and all it. So,
so Russell was having you work all of his products,
not just yeah. It was to shut them down, remix
and make sure these DJs get it. You. We used
everything for everything. So we used to do radio programs

(50:20):
where we fly people into Death Comedy Jam. So I
five all the program directors, artists, everybody in promotion. They
wanted to close the wear so it were giving fat Farm,
you know, So we we did that. Everything it kept evolving,
so it wasn't and it wasn't worth quest. To be
honest with you, I got to wear so you wanted
to remember names and shake hands and kiss babies, and

(50:44):
I wanted to make people feel like they met me,
not like they shook my hand. But what was the
end game for you? Like back, if you're like, okay,
I'm meeting this figure and dada, da dada. Are you
thinking down the line like one I'll start my own
label or not? I just I'm that's a different dude.

(51:06):
If I'm cooking, I want to make the best meal.
If I'm intern, I want to be the best intern.
If I'm um rapping, I want to be there. I
just wanted to be the best, So I never thought
about being the president. Do you think coming from Baltimore
that I would be the president of CEO? No, nobody
knew me. I don't have a half family in New York.

(51:28):
But the thing is that because you were kept, because
that you were Kevin Mitchell's intern in one and by
you're the president of the damn label, that tells me
that you had a very marksman like determination and ambition.
I'm sorry where you Oh no, no, no no, I

(51:51):
don't mean like in in a in a a give
you get some point. I never I never wanted to
be president. I never I never knew what to be honest,
which I never didn't know what it was. I thought
Russell would be there forever I thought I thought Leo
would be. I never knew that was attainable from a
kid from what told you? All? Right? First of all,
is that folklore I heard that was true? Mitchell would say,

(52:13):
like you'd show up at eight in the morning like
most people get into ten. I'm serious. So what tells
you I need to be there at eight thirty am
every day before everyone gets there. I went to school
to be electrical engineer. My scholarship was from Nassau. I

(52:33):
wasn't playing with from Baltimore CEP timing Now I was.
I was again I was UM. I guess I was
a cool NERD you know that I always wanted to
be the best. And I remember when I came to
definitely was the joke that I would say, oh, come
in when I came to New York, and I was like,

(52:56):
why people come here tender? Not my clock? You missed
the radio stations on twenty four hours a day, seven
days a week. Why you what do you mean? And
then by time you get that, get your coffee? Had
a water cooler moment to lunch was there was there
a teacher's pet kind of uh uh scarlet letter attached
her shoulder like uh, you know Kevin over there, Like, no,

(53:19):
they're trying. They try to throw me out the building.
A couple of times people would tell on me. I
had people flip over deaths in front of me. Um.
I had somebody tried to get me fired at Howard
because UM, I left them because they were late and
I had to get the group to the radio station.
So I don't play that. What I'm about the group doing?

(53:41):
What they're supposed to do. So I left them. So
they sent this long letter, and so I had to
be you know, being an engineer, you know you you
do weird stuff. So I had to write a response
to that letter. Mine was like this, this after everything,
every single thing, it was, you have notes weird tho
I kept it was weird. Oh ship, you know what

(54:03):
I mean. But but but I tell you. But it
taught me that all the engineering I used to manage
a telemarketing office of four hundred people three different shifts,
taught me how to orate, how to communicate. Um engineering
taught me to be be thoughtful in being an artist.
That's taught me how to treat people how you know
I want to be treated. And so I would really

(54:24):
work hard. Like I said, it wasn't easy because they
tried to throw me out to building. I remember my
first mistake, well, now my first thing, well one of
the mistakes they almost got me looked at crazy. I
did a show with Biggie Small, method Man, Red Man,
Onyx and somebody. But I did it in a museum
during howard home coming. Logo on the building, Death College

(54:47):
jam on the Building three hundred thousand dollars later, after
they destroyed the play Your Guns, I had to explain
why I would think doing the show in the museum.
Explaining the rational so I said, well, first off, nobody
would throw showing museum, and I think hip hop is art.

(55:09):
Hip hop deserves to be in the museum. Secondly, I
feel like if you shine your logo like a bad time,
people come to it. So I had two thousand people
out inside and another three thousands of people outside. Thirdly,
I thought by having Biggie Smalls and method Man performed
the what for the first time I had this opportunity
to I thought it would be a moment the time

(55:32):
honest never been in the museum, so it was just
a moment of time, and and and Lea said, what
did you learn? I said, I learned that I would
do it again, but I would have insurance. And what
does it feel like twenty years later when Picasso Baby
comes out and it's like, I'm I'm only I'm only

(55:54):
telling you, like, it's like, so yeah, but I never
wanted to be That's that's not to interrupt you. Sorry, Um,
I never wanted to be president. A matter of fact,
in nineties six, they came to me and said, you know,
we want to make you president. I said, but I
don't know the world. I don't I don't how can
I be president? And I don't know the world. I
don't know what hip hop looks like in London or

(56:15):
in Paris, and in Japan. I don't really know what
it looks like. So I need more time. So then
seven came around and it was like, yo, you really
have to we really wanna you know, And then I said,
you know, I'm ready now okay. Uh. There's a common
denominator for this show. We're still a baby. Uh, and

(56:39):
I feel like next to uh Stories of the Tunnel.
For New York Rappers, the second common denominator is the
lee or element either imitating lee or or kind of
what yea? What has Leo ever thrown anything at you?

(57:01):
I don't have to believe you saying this question over here? Question.
So of course you you got to work in uh
pre yoga Russell's def jam, Uh, maybe lunch storing leaders

(57:26):
def jam? What was okay? Aside from working in Baltimore.
I mean, I'm sure there were a few times you
stepped in the actual building in New York Elizabeth Street. Yeah,
I was there I was when Russell used to live
on top of Tower records. You know, I mean I was.
I was. I was in Baltimore, but I was doing

(57:47):
so well that they would say, come up to New
York and help with this program, or help with this
or see you work outside of your markets. Yeo. I
remember Mike Haser love my man. He said, Yo, I
had my life and shat can you come up um
and get the eighteen pass Devan and and bring Whodini down?

(58:09):
Do you know who didn't want to know? The death Dan?
But we managed him rush. So I actually drove up
came to pick the group up in there. And this
is how like again, I didn't have to do it,
I'm the intern, but it was a way for me
to meet Hohodini, get it in the rush, talk to
people and do something for us, somebody who was a
friend of mine. Gosh, you know what I mean? So
I did that, you know what means to me? It

(58:30):
wasn't so what was what was the building? Like I
tried to ask Faith. I tried to ask Faith Newman
this question. And she's rather diplomatic and not too descriptive.
But for a person, and you know, this is not

(58:50):
It's not about like throwing people under the bus or whatever.
But it's just that I've heard so many stories of
like def jam but between in nine or pre PolyGram,
So the Christmas parties, the you know which which models

(59:11):
now working in the room, you know, during the whole
Griff jd L situation, and all the guards that had
to be out front and all that stuff, and just
like what was it like, give me a deaf jam,
an old politically incorrect death jam story, Like wow that

(59:36):
you want to get arrested for? Um rock and roll? Man?
I mean, I mean every every bit of everything you
could imagine. Um we were. I never really considered it.
It just it was it was really when I tell
you rock and roll, everything was happening that could ever happen.
I'm gonna give you a story I was trying to

(59:58):
get just like when when the routes finally got to
like the industry, everything just stopped, Like everybody was like
vegetarian the party and you know the word plutonic gotten

(01:00:18):
just you know now listen, Uh, All I can say
is is this, there were no rules. You were morally incorrect, period,
There was nothing. The only thing we would know we
had to do was work hard. That's what the mindset was,

(01:00:39):
work harder than anybody else. But when I tell you
I Sawdom go more that I have seen so much
stuff and and but it's I understand we were kids too,
so we and with money and you know, growing and
people having for people growing up together. I got friends.
So I've been me and was twenty five years now.

(01:01:02):
So he was twenty three, no, thirty somewhere around there,
and I was twenty three. Think you were an intimidated
by Lear because I even I even people that love
and respect even people that respect Lee or if I first,
if I gained the trust and first mentioned his name,

(01:01:23):
I'm in at least a minuscule I roll happens like
le or like the thing like people have their Have
you dealt with Leo when you guys were Atlantic, we did.
We had a meeting with him. Uh it was um interesting,
I'll be real with you like I mean, and I

(01:01:43):
hopefully we haven't on the show. He probably remember the joint.
But for me, my meeting with Leo was very much
to bring it back to the wire. It was the
canard that's omar. That was my moment. I was. It
was like that's old because to me, like he was
like we were talking about um. It was around the
town when our album, I think Mistell Show had just
came out, and so we had a meeting with him

(01:02:07):
and it was just very impromptent. We were just like
in the hallway and he was like eating a sandwich
or something and he was just kind of standing up.
And you know, again from seeing him like in documentaries
and stuff, he's like a very like intense, like he
looks like that kind of guy. But then I met
him and he was just like, oh, yes, so Kanye
drive Slow. I loved that song like coming Here, and
I was just like, oh yeah, that's a cool song.

(01:02:30):
But our album about to come out, Niggle what you're
gonna do? And so it was just you know whatever.
I remember it was me. It was it was always
it was three of us, me, Pooh and Ninth and
manager though, and then James Lopez who used to be
and he was there, and so we just had that
brief interaction and then we walked off and I remember
asking James, I say, man, what do you think that? Yeah?

(01:02:53):
I was like, what do you think it's gonna mean?
And he was just like, man, I don't know, and
that was it, you know what I'm saying. But that
was the only real time I had had amuseing whenen
but the times I had just that one instance. And
then he came to our show the opening night we
did at UH at BB King's UH. It was like
I released Party or something like that. I can't remember,
but we were on tour when the album just came out,
and I mean sold out show. How many minutes? How

(01:03:16):
many minutes did he stay? Yeah? Um, I want to
say he stayed for like a good he stayed may
be calling like the opening set. He probably called like
the first fifteen twenty minutes, wow, I think yeah, because
he could you want to know my president minute? I

(01:03:37):
think I think jay Z and Beyonce watched one verse
Ship Theory and I turned what happened? You said? I came? Yeah?
They yeah, they yeah, they he gave. I want to say,
I don't know if you were there. I know the

(01:03:58):
time that me and Kevin was when we did the UH.
It was a listening part and it was somewhere downtown.
I can't remember, but apparently, like I remember, the fire
alarms kept going off that night and we had to
cut it short. But that was the first time that
me and you had met outside the office, and I
remember you came up and uh but yeah, I mean
my time working with him again. This is post ninety

(01:04:19):
you know, everybody you know, stop start doing yoga, stop
doing coping ship. So it's different. But so wait if
you if it interest in quest of supremea I've been doing.
We're here with Kevin Lowns. We're trying to get uh
Cohen stories. The thing is, I you know, I respect

(01:04:42):
Lee or I know, like it's basically I've I've heard
everything about Leric Cohen. He's liar Cohen, or he's an asshole,
or he's a good businessman, or he's honest with you. Um,
I mean I respect because the people in my circle
are so blunt and so you know, just outright with
what what they are like. They don't hide the truth

(01:05:05):
or anything. I mean, I can respect that. So for
for you, what was it about Lee or I mean,
did le or intimidate you in the beginning or I
always say, man, it just must be some brotherly love
or or such respect. Um. He never and this might

(01:05:25):
be sounding weird to you, guys, Leod never yelled at me,
what did you do to not get from Baltimore? Maybe
he was, And be honest with yourself, what was the perception?
What's the perception of you as you're slowly First of all,
how long did you intern before they said this guy
is kind of valuable, let's cut him a check. Two years?

(01:05:49):
It took two years for them to finally and you
didn't complain once he paid it already? No, I didn't.
I didn't like it really was. I was doing it
for the experience and I had to be honest with
So if ONYX is throwing oranges at you because the
shifty single didn't get out of the MTV or something,
you're not having a they don't pay me enough for

(01:06:10):
this moment, Like I looked at it's not making fun
of you. Because I looked at it. They were all
they were all counterparts to me. They were colleagues. They
I wasn't working for them, and I just looked at
it differently. It's like, yo, I know what you need,
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna get it done. I'm gonna
make sure. Because it was like but we I like
felt like I'm living. You understand something once you're an

(01:06:32):
artist and then you get on the other side. Um,
I'm really living through all of them. So the songs
they make when they're throwing the guns and there and
M E. T A and the red I'm living. I
would be on stage. The joke is even to this day.
If you ask for one of my artists, they where
it's Kevin stage right. I said, would always yo, tell

(01:06:52):
me what the libe you need me to make? If
are they jumped in the crowd, I would jump in
the crowd. After I was just I was just a
fatherly kind of like, yo, we crew. So I never
I never looked at it like that. The time I
got was kind of funny when a Kevin Mitchell was
moving up. You know, he did such a great job
in the mid Atlantic moving up to Nashville. Take Bob
Barbato's job mix show. So they said, well, Kevin, um,

(01:07:18):
you know you should come interview for the job. I've
been interning for two years doing the job and you
want me to come interview for the job. Cool. So
engineer keV had to come back out. I put my
whole package at my briefcases, put my suit on, got
my whole discover for me of everything, everything I did.

(01:07:40):
I go up there. I'm sitting in the room, so
everybody laughing at me. Yeah, I don't have suit. Was
in the briefcase. I said, I came here to take
the job. That's what I came here to do. I'm
wearing showing them everything that I've done. And it said, well,
you know, good interview, you know great, and appreciate all
the paperwork. One month go by, two months go by,
three months ago by Uh, I'm starting to feel a

(01:08:01):
certain way because I know it's nobody better than me,
especially in that area. Nobody, nobody is better than me.
And that Philadelphia, DC, Baltmore, Virginia. So then I get
a call. I remember Julie calls, but it says, um,
Kevin Lows was at a marketing gig. She said, um, um,
this is Julie from Deaf Him, you know, West's assistant. Um.

(01:08:22):
We we think we want you to we want you
to come work with us. I said, great, I said,
She said, we want to pay you thirty thousand dollars.
Like you realize I'm making it up, Okay, I said, well,
I said, well, um um, I can work with you
all for that. Julie said, no, you'll work for us
for that. That's why Julie story yet so we it's

(01:08:47):
I just never word about it. Man, what about the money?
Anything to me that's interesting to hear because at least
for me leor Lyles, Julie sometimes Mike, like, all your
names are synonymous with each other. So you guys all
started together at Deaf Jam minus Lee or at in
lower positions like when Julie came in? When did she?

(01:09:11):
Julie was West's was Julie was interning and working at Rush.
Then when when Leo went over to Deaf Jam, Julie
came was working with West assistant Leo a little bit
and then started working with West. Um Mike Kaser was
working at at Tower Records, and Russell lived on top

(01:09:32):
of tower. Wait, that's how Mike got Hirard. So he said, yo, um,
you do you do a good job with that? You
know you want to do? Ready home Wait a minute, exclusive,
I'm editing the story a little bit, but that's he
met his mental records and we that's how he started.

(01:09:54):
We read it. We remember said I was in Baltimore
the UM. I remember them saying, yo, you're gonna do
rhythm radio and I'm like, well, damn, rhythm radio is white.
Why do you give it? Said, why don't give it them?
But they put guys in the desks, and so you're
gonna do rhythm radio. He became one of the number
one rhythm radio you know people out there, And that's
that's my Did he have experience? He worked in tower records,

(01:10:20):
you know, that's the that's that's the trooper. Yeah, but
you gotta understand something with so every time Julie went
you know me, we were like brother and sisters, you
know what I mean. So it's like that's like family,
like people talk about. I never lead. Is the kind
of guy if we went to war today, he's gonna
be throw me the fucking bullets. I don't take offense

(01:10:41):
to that because we're at war. I understand, and it's
intense that I understand. I don't. That's not you know
what I mean, not no idiot, I say, that's he
that's never went there with me. And but here's the
other thing though, when he looked to his right, when
he looked stage right, you know, he ain't worry about that.
Even that's the difference. I'm not I'm not I'm gonna

(01:11:01):
be there before him. I'm gonna make sure everything's right
to this day. I'm gonna make sure it's right. Russell.
I'm gonna make sure it's right to this day. They
changed my life. They change the traject three of my family.
They changed. They gave me first generation money, so so
I might always pay respects. Here was did you really
did you have a relationship with Russell? And where is

(01:11:24):
Like if you think def Jam, You're always want to
think Russell Simmons. But you know, I know that in
ninety one he had sort of this octopus vision of
developing the clothes line and developing uh definite comedy jams
like but still, uh, I know that the higher upset Sony,

(01:11:51):
we're kind of in different And then like, can you
explain that the R A L period because the rust
associate labels period? Because from my point of view, as
a fan who always read Billboard every week and charted stuff,

(01:12:12):
I always love the fact and kind of hated the
fact that you guys def Jam used to formally flaunt Well,
you know, we've only been out for five years with
five artists, and you know it's just like L L
the slick rick and that's it. And then the third
base and then that's it. And then one day was
like all these Rust associated artists came through the door

(01:12:33):
resident alien and then yeah, so with all with suddenly
like twelve to thirteen acts to deal with and kind
of losing their uniqueness? What it do? You know what
the environment was with with with with Mantola and Donnie
and the Sony higher ups with def Jam and what

(01:12:56):
caused the eventual exodus to PolyGram was next correct? So
what was that period between one and three where things
were a little cloudy with what made that jam wants
just the powerhouse that it was like? What was what
was that environment like? Especially like with you and Russ

(01:13:17):
were you more ale or guy or a Rust guy?
Like was Rust the Beatles and le or was the
Rolling Stones? And you had to choose? You never had
to choose because Russell was the visionary um Lee or
was task with. All I wanted to do was be
the greatest recommend He didn't care about fat farm or

(01:13:38):
comedy and that wasn't his thing, you know. He really
wanted to build a great American record company UM and
at that time he was he got the Rocks. So
Russell associated labels quote unquote Russell and Lee or I
never knew that it was Russell, but the rest of

(01:14:00):
the leal so um, it was just before it's time. Now,
I'm gonna sound kind of nerdy here. Sometimes as visionaries
you try to put things into play that it's not
just time. We didn't have the infrastructure built to support

(01:14:23):
uh a quote unquote associated label venture. But if you
think about four or five years later, after the infrastructure stability,
people came to work and all that kind of stuff,
we were able to do ROCKEFELLERMA piece. It was. It
was a great vision, but the two earlship too early
at the time because the infrastructure. It gave me hope.

(01:14:43):
The infrastructure wasn't right, But it was those days, man,
Like I said, everybody want you know Rick was gone
and everybody wanted to prove they were the next and
upgrade an R and this one knew this one. But
the real fact that most of the artists that I've
ever signed in my life were referred to me by
other artists like, wait, we're not going to get there.

(01:15:05):
He left me, did you? I'm saying like that. That
was really like, if you think about it, um to
me a six degrees of separation. You you wanna you
got E P and D on the road and his
kid current uh scratches crates. His name is red Man.
I mean, I can you know Shokazulu, who we both

(01:15:25):
know worked for me, was at the college radio station.
He had a friend called, um, Chris Love a Lover
who was on the radio, and he wanted to you know,
time out. You lived in Atlanta as well. I transferred
from Morgan and went to seek for Bright Street where

(01:15:46):
he was. He was against Chris Love a Lover and
poon Dad and La La. I don't trust nobody that
has more than twelve addresses. So no, it's like, um,
so I always met people through other people. Um, And
it wasn't until the whole research thing came that I

(01:16:07):
started to see things outside of the people that I knew.
But I knew everybody who knew you could touch somebody
with any you know. We just uh, I can't say.
But there's this kid that's going up someplace right now
and we just did a big didn't a deal with him,
and it's, um, we heard it somebody said it was

(01:16:29):
popping and we got it in and got it you
know first. So it's like it's changing now, but I
really believe we gotta I gotta kid Johnny Stevens from
Holly Suspect rock band, number one rock record right now.
I believe he's going to find the next star. And
I believe that we did the deal with Young Thug
for y s L. I believe that Young Thug puts

(01:16:50):
out so much music and everybody wants to that he is.
And so I just believe you believe in connectors and bridges. Yes, yes,
that's an important thing. It is important. Um So when
de chim what what was the what was the transferring
from leaving Sony to PolyGram? Were you at all worried

(01:17:14):
that you guys might lose your casher or your uniqueness,
or that it might go under or having to deal
with like who is who is the motol and the
the Donnie Iron of PolyGram at this point when you
guys go there, m hm, Wow they hit of distribution?

(01:17:37):
Was Jim Caparo? I think who is the Wow? I really, honestly,
I can't remember. Damn is that bad? That bad? My mind?
Is that bad? Um? Okay, you can remember. Let let
me tell you what I never you put you put
Leo Russell together I don't see how you fail. So

(01:18:01):
I never did it. Didn't see. How was it that
Sony just didn't understand them or no? I think it
was we who welcome. You can yell at people so
much to a point where um people and you understand,
this was early early days of our culture, you know.
And so you're going up into Tommy's. Has there been

(01:18:27):
a Tommy Lee or a moment of sandwiches exchanged? I
never said, I never saw it. Heard about some conversations,
you know, I heard Russell flipped over a couple of
deaths and things like that, but I never never experienced
it myself. Phone. Okay, so I know that at least

(01:18:48):
my perception is that in ninety four, the the anchor
record of that year that really established def jam too
the next decade was Orangees album. Now it was written,
let me tell you really what it was, the first
record we released from Colombia to PolyGram Domino. It was

(01:19:17):
Saturday morning. Yet yeah, okay, so by that point, you know,
you were heavy at least in your your knowledge of
East Coast from you know, the Baltimore I would assume
that you were the d m V guy, the Tri
State area guy. You might know down South markets, did

(01:19:39):
you know West Coast at all? Like who was there
to really let you guys know? Or was it just
like the chronics ripple was so strong that it was
like we gotta grab whoever guessed it on Dr Dre's
chronic record and give them a deal. Now, Like, um,
I mean, I'm say I can't put it so you

(01:19:59):
can me open him hip hop? So in w A
you couldn't talk too short that I'm It's like I
was a fan. I was a fan. I'm young still,
I'm a fan. So to me, wait, I just want
to say, as an East Coaster, I want to meet
a person that had my my viewpoint on what the

(01:20:20):
West Coast was because I wasn't getting I wasn't open
to West Coast hip hop. I mean until I mean
I heard the police and like I gave him. Okay,
I'll give you guys an exception and ice Cube working
with the bomb squad, But like, for the most part,
there's no way you can tell me that the West
Coast was going to outdo the East Coast ever culturally

(01:20:41):
or sales wise. And then suddenly one day it was
like New York just lost it's it's it's Steve, But
why can't you tell I never looked again. Well, I
was young and dumb. I'm weirdo. Because I looked at it.
The story that needed to be told needed to be
told by different tongues, and a Baltimore story in New

(01:21:04):
York story. There's still a ghetto story in the West
everywhere you know, never where you go. And so to me,
I really looked at it a storytelling. Uh. No, one
was a joke, but then it was the police, but
they both saying kind of the same thing to me.
So I really looked at it as storytelling. And we
went into it with def Jim West Um, Paul Stewart.

(01:21:26):
UH hired p and P hired him. Um. First record
I think was this is how we do it. But
prior to that out, this is how I learned the
West Coast. There was a group called a guy called
Mellow from Compton and a group called South Central Cartel. Yeah,
there was original having. So they said they want to

(01:21:53):
do a West Coast promo tour and they loved how
I put together promo toys. Uh, and so I got
in a car. We went from Seattle all the way
down to San diego over to Phoenix in Colorado. You
can tell me about that. I know, the West Coast.
I wrote the Bible of what should be done. But

(01:22:14):
I hung. I was in Compton. I remember my first year.
I'm gonna tell you sorry, gonna let you go. I'm
in Compton and it was what we called but you know,
dead version of the bodega. So I'm getting some iced tea.
Back then, then bottle started shaking, so like this. So
I'm like, who the fund is back there? What the

(01:22:36):
fund are you doing? I'm I'm mad, Like, yo, stop
working with me. The lady said, I'm in the middle
of an earthquake. And that was the north Ridge, the Big,
the Big. So you was in the corner store. It
was Compton. Say, why are you saying everything? You know?

(01:23:09):
Every reference the goodness? I don't know what I told
a story but that. But that's my love, my love.
I lived there twice in my life, and now I
appreciate storytellers being able to tell the no matter what
it was. I just appreciated people telling the story. So,
I mean you had no Internet back then. I mean

(01:23:30):
now anyone could have the power. I mean the power
that you had googling something and finding out, Okay, where
can I, uh you know, where can I promote this
record or hang these posters or or bring my group
to meet those things. But you you're saying you're writing
the Bible on this, Like, how do you who's giving
you your research to know this particular market, that particular market,

(01:23:54):
this particular market like touching the people you taught you?
You you find a hot girl and the god the hustler,
and you go and you go to the mall. You say, well,
y'all going to this was real. You generally like people
because because we were to take and we were to

(01:24:16):
take a question of supremes. All right, slight detours special.
Do you like people? Oh, sugar ste do you like people?
I love good people. I hate ship heads. You're lying
out already know you hate people everyone? I love people,

(01:24:41):
you know I do? I love people? To Bill, do
you believer? I don't believe anything? She says. I think
you've lived in too many places to tell this. I
think I think I think unpaid Bill is the only
person in the circle that actually but you know what

(01:25:02):
I think I mean from my people now, I'm with you.
I love you guys, But I'm with you this what's
the same hell as other people. But no, I think
from listening to what he's saying, from what he was saying,
you know when you're talking about how it wasn't about
you know, I plan to be the president. You just
want to add value to a situation value proposition, you

(01:25:22):
know what I mean. And so to me, like I'm
in that way, like I don't do I like people. No,
but if you give me a job and say do
this job, then I'll do what I gotta do because
I want to deliver on the job. So if I
got to go talk to people, if I can't just
look oaks, how many followers through this nigger guy, like
I gotta really actually do that, I would do that.
So it makes it makes my joint is like, all right,

(01:25:44):
my my goal And that's not like a thing where
you're thinking riches and on stuff. But in general, my
thing was always like, yo, I just want to take
care of my mom and sugar steve reparations for the diabetes.

(01:26:07):
Just take care of my mom. Put out some fires. Yeah,
and put out some fires, which basically take care. If
you're black, you're a you're automatically taken carefully seven to
fourteen people in your life just to put out the fire,
you know, Uh, like, did I think back in Okay,

(01:26:31):
let me oh, I'm gonna be on the late night
show one time? You know? No, hell no, I didn't.
Somebody sees that fart. I get you not seeing that,
but you do kind of have this live each day
to the fullest, connect with people, remember names, you know,

(01:26:52):
and never burn a bridge at like I don't hear
uh Kevin Liles stories like I hear and I'm gonna
get to the you and Dame history, but I never
hear Kevin low stories like I hear Simmons like is
he really that nice? As not even nice? But I mean,

(01:27:15):
like your reputation even even if like like there's not
even rumors about you doing someone shady or any of
those things. I'll tell you so some people would. Here's
here's what I get from people. I might not remember
everybody's name, but obviously it's like like tonight, I have

(01:27:41):
to get something from each one of you guys, or
why be in the room. So I'm meeting you and
sharing things, and I'm meeting people all over the world.
But obviously God put me in that place for reasons.
So I have to share a part of myself. So
I wear my heart on my sleeve. And when you
wear your heart and your sleeve, you fear none. You

(01:28:02):
just don't worry about You just make people feel like
they met you, not like you. Just But what about
the ship heads. You're not talking about the ship heads,
So so let me tell you about ships. I met
a couple of ship hits. But but I even understand them.
Some people, um, that's the only way they could survive,

(01:28:26):
um and so. And I'm not trying to get philosophical.
I just I just I really believe that I was
put here for a greater purpose, and that purpose might Jesus.
Jesus walked amongst the thieves, the killers, the liars, um

(01:28:48):
to make away ship. He is cool, y'are. You're not
gonna change You're not gonna change who I am. At
a matter of fact, I'm gonna work on being so nice,
so nice that hopefully you understand that you don't need
to be as much of a ship hit as I wish.
I knew you that my first anyway, I want to

(01:29:16):
get some motivational speaking from lids, like in the morning.
I want to wake up exactly. But seriously, how do
you maintain that is that is that motivation? Motivation is meditation?
Was that you Is this hindsight speaking or is this
in I'm not okay now, I want to get to
the artists you have to deal with because or you

(01:29:38):
gotta put on that ship to you right, because I'm
saying that as an artist, I know the the plight
of the artist, and I know the plight of employee
at the label and management company. And some of the
biggest clashes ever mankind are are with artists and managers

(01:29:58):
or the other side of the table. So that said, uh, okay,
now that def jam Is is ten years old at
least in this timeline. How how are the older established
or minus l L who actually weird enough had the
biggest mark of his career ten years into his career.

(01:30:22):
I mean, I assume that Mrs Smith surpassed Mom said
knock you out as far as comebacks are concerned. But
I mean, at this rate, a lot of your first
generation acts, you guys are dealing with Slick Rick and
his his jail incidents. First of all, how how did
you guys even manage to get eighteen songs out of

(01:30:45):
Slick Rick with six weeks of his life before he's
about to do five years or right, like what was that?
What was that period? Like? Um? I was that was
more so like an intern period. It for me, you know,
um I was just coming up. And the Slick Rick

(01:31:05):
story was. Rick was a storyteller, so he just knew
he had to do write a lot of records and
it was he would know he would listen when I
when I tell you Rick and the Rick is a
good good friend and and I'm hoping to answer the
question right because I'm gonna go ou outside of Rick.
I think my job at that time was to preserve

(01:31:27):
legacy with those guys and understand that that tird you
put the D N def jam in public, geting me,
you put the E and def jam Slick Rick, you
put the F and def jam. You know I had
to so I treated them like that. I didn't treat
them like they were old. I didn't treat them like
they were yesterday. I treat him like they were important

(01:31:48):
and today. And this is why to this day, you know,
Rick and Mandy A call mean and say hey, we
just want to tell you we love you. Tired to
say yo, you know, come me and Simone doing this
chucka hip me and said, yo podcasts with you know,
I still get and and so that moment and I
remember when um we did behind Bars he was locked

(01:32:09):
you know, yeah, the orangy you know, um that was
my ship and I love that joy that was how
did y'all do that? How did y'all make a record?
And then I did it again with Sean when he
was behind bars that I did his uh that the
Godfather Buried Alive or something like that. Yeah, Um, I

(01:32:31):
did it. And when they're recording under this drest like
how I'm just trying to figure out how are they
able to even produce uh results with with with that
imaginary guns in their head like they have to. I
don't think when you when it's when it's argument is

(01:32:52):
what you do. It's like saying telling a guy you
got to build a house in um instead of a year,
you gotta build it in six month. It might be impossible.
He still knows how to build a house. And so
I think that I think that at the end of
the day, these uh, these kids, I think then the
day they felt that they decided to feed their family.
And when you when how you when you work in

(01:33:13):
the feed your family, you're not writing records? Right? You surviving?
You know we'll speaking in behind bars. I gotta give
a shout out to the Warrangry remix to of bars.
This is behind bars or on quest of Supreme. We're
here with super Guru Kevin. You are bro check this

(01:33:34):
out this morning. Gee, you know what I'm saying. Chill
them with my man slick Rick, you know, and we're
gonna give you all a little tail about that jail stuff.
You know. So Rick, why don't you running home? Get down?
Innocent lord played with he wasn't having anything. I was
raised the blades and supposed situation seeing Roles. Hey, your
money was sidespon me to one other sprang up that

(01:34:00):
was behind bars by a slick Rick. That's right, the
Warringy Remix behind bars on Quest Love Supreme. Um, there's
one question I don't want to ask you. Um, so
by this point in that I can say that you're
safely in the defam office not intern um. What was

(01:34:23):
what was you guys reaction to music in our message
by public enemy? Because I remember the day I remember
the day that ursa smith and uh well back when
Set to Run, you guys had so many Rush associated companies.

(01:34:46):
But when Ursula became her own uh publicity firm, Uh,
she was our first, the roots first publicist, and I
used to just always hang in her office and she
called me in, says mir, I got the new Public
Enemy album. You want to hear it? And that was

(01:35:07):
That was one of the most coldest days ever because
because every Public Enemy album from Nation of Millions, well
every there was three four I forgot even even when
bum Rust the show, Like every time I listened to

(01:35:27):
a Public Enemy album for the first time, it was
such a life changing moment and for me it was like, wow,
can they do this to me for a fifth time?
The no, the answer was yes, but it was it
was in the wrong way. But in hindsight they were
onto something because they were five years before the rage

(01:35:49):
against the Machine, you know, rock rap thing. But I
mean I have the same reaction that had the same
open mouth draw dropped. Are they allowed to do this?
Like it was such a radical album? What were you guys?
Please be Chuck has been very honest about how you

(01:36:09):
guys felt about it when you got the record. What
did y'all talk about I didn't know what to do,
like Chuck played in front of you guys and looked
at your faces, or just like I didn't know what
to do because because at least with Apocalypse, when you're like, okay,

(01:36:34):
I can work with that, you know what. But but
but but here's the great thing about writing about deaf Dan.
Once you proved yourself, who am I to judge? That's
where we're going. I don't know what to do, but okay,
we're gonna We're gonna see what it is. Well, it

(01:36:54):
was also well not the second to last album, because
that was he got game. But like there was there
was just no precedent for I mean, there was the Goats,
you know, the goats who were economising, they were rocking
the wrapping and raised against the Machine, had one album
out beforehand. But did you guys at least have a

(01:37:17):
warning that you know, because by that point, even even
though I mean, WU Tank still wasn't a fully formed
figurehead and you know, the group that we will worship.
So in my mind, like publicanmy still had run DMC
status to that point in ninety four, and then I

(01:37:43):
don't know, maybe I just felt they were so angry
at Were they angry at you? Guys? Were they angry?
Was it just like a lot of inga a lot
of anger? Um, what was the relationship like? Because I
would think that they were your crown jewel, like you
know this, this is the group that gets the white

(01:38:04):
critics respect, and they always they always would would be
the crown jewel. But you you gotta understand, Um, when
when your kids and you grow up together, Um, sometimes
a big brother little brother thing comes into play. And
when you finally got a point where you sold the
Left records, you want to do what you want to

(01:38:24):
do too, So a lot of that has to have
to come. You gotta They were young kids, man, you're
talking about back then, you know Todd fifteen sixteen, and
they're going all over the world, you know what I mean,
public enemy you know, people with them, people not with them,
people against them. People they're fighting wars that you know,

(01:38:47):
the Griffin. It's it's so much so you had to
allow that to happen. And when I'll see and talk
to you about it. But when a rock act or
a pop act when they make that album that you
don't what's that? We just say it was just a
time for them republicaning at that moment again, they would early.

(01:39:09):
I'm with you, they were just early and we wasn't
built for that. We just wasn't built for it. And
that was the and but that was the expression. So
who were we to judge? Was their disappointment and their
end of you guys not finding because even then I
just thought like, oh, they're over, they lost it, and
I had no clue that it. Later when I found out, like, oh,

(01:39:34):
because Ursula, their publicists had to figure out how to
market them, and somehow she got glowing reviews out of
Vibe magazine and and well tore roasted them with like
a two star review of Rolling Stone. But for the
most part she got a lot of rock, alternative fresh
love that I wasn't even expecting them to get. And

(01:39:57):
thus they started slowly creeping in into alternative tours out
the norm. That opened up another lane form, right, not
just raps. It was like like, oh, okay, there are
c white people and rockheads that want to hear bring
the noise right this stuff and I didn't. That was
that was the message. Two. You could you could in

(01:40:20):
hip hop create many lanes. And what they did was
you gotta think back then, nobody was thinking that even
with Beastie being what it was, nobody would ever think
P would go there. You know what I mean, you
got a certain thing from P. You know what I mean,
nobody ever thought they would go there. But what what
I just chuck was saying, um, And again I can't

(01:40:42):
quote it because I don't remember that this is where
we are, just where we are. One of the more amazing,
uh comeback stories in my mind for death cham Um
was that Mr. Smith album and i'd I personally didn't
think he could do it a third time. You know

(01:41:04):
it's like no, well, it's like yes, initial well his
initial l l elness run And even though I was
a fan of Walking with the Panther and you were
the only one in the room. Look, it came out
the last day of school. It was a special woman
and I graduated. That was my soundtrack at the summer.

(01:41:24):
I like dropping him. And then and then uh, you know,
Mom said knock you Out was like the comeback, even
though we weren't supposed to call that. And then you know,
once the thing was I read the source review of
of of fourteen shots at the shot which you know, yeah,

(01:41:48):
back seat and how I'm coming. What was the other scene?
But not that remix. The remix was not on that record.
The remix wasn't had the remix was on the record,
I would give him something different, the right I would get.
But you know, I mean, the legend is that Russell
lost his mind at the source of review and words

(01:42:08):
were exchanged and all this stuff. But all that happened
pretty much. People counted ll out, and I guess he
wisely just stayed silent for a year, all of ninety four.
And then the first we saw him with his new
ball head and stuff was in the Flavoring Year remixing.
So was there was there a marketing plan to two

(01:42:35):
bring LLL back? Or was it just like here's some
spaghetti and throw it on the wall and see what sticks.
Todd And if you speak to him, he'll tell you.
Let me tell you something phenomenal, phenomenal. He like his
good Luck Chump and the Smith Mrs Smith, you know

(01:42:59):
Garbags last. Um that was the last Todd album we
worked on together. UM because he left UM soon after that. Um.
You gotta understand something. L L cool Day is hot
A usually DJ man. You couldn't tell me now, No, rapper.

(01:43:22):
I was a fan fan, So you mean to tell
me that LLL No, that's he. He was HiCon to me.
I I wanted to Todd, So there was no way
that he was there. He was that. He was always
going to be this to me. To me, so I

(01:43:42):
treated him like that. And you're saying this, I mean
you're pointing up on a higher level. He he was
always that to me and so to me. I never
looked at it as um him making a comeback. I
thought every album was an ex ferimentation of where he
was as an artist and certain things he tried. You

(01:44:04):
know what I mean, because even knowing fourteen shots, you know,
I was trying to tell your back it's back seat
is the record, you guys, is the back seat is
the record? I said that Pink cookies, what we talked, talked,
we gotta have a conversation like that back seat we
I said, we had that real conversation. But it was um, um,

(01:44:26):
I have to be honest with you. UM. That is
why today, UM we're still friends. Because we went through
every moment that you can go through. I remember when
when um he dropped headstrong, Uh yeah and uh he
he uh. That was his last number one album, two

(01:44:47):
hundred thousand copies, and he called me and said, you
always believed in me. You never stopped believing in me.
I'm gonna love you better, he said. He said, you
never stopped and until this day, just so I never
looked at it like come back and come that. I
never looked because again these were they were friends too.

(01:45:10):
So what you know now, did we have to go
to work? Do we had to do things differently? Do
we had to go see different Yeah? We had to
do that. But that's what it's all about. To me,
That's what evolution is all about. It's not about I'd
rather have the hard time. How about this? Let me
do that because you can remember me. You're gonna know
I went there, was with you the whole time. Figured
it out. So for for a record like Mr. Smith

(01:45:34):
and for the potential singles that had had Uh, there's
one important element in the story that we kind of
didn't mention, which was the the the uprise and the
power that a certain New York radio station had, which
was Hot nine. I hope I'm allowed to say that,

(01:45:55):
you know on my own show Panto Scott, Is that allow? Okay?
I just need to be technical. Um, not that I
would expect you to give me the dirty low down,

(01:46:16):
but I mean, by this point, especially with coming up
in the right, what's the telecommunications that? Yeah? God, what
a paralegal you. You deserve your own noise, a fact

(01:46:41):
check and the fact checker. I know that you guys
were playing the win. I know that by this point
bad boys really established trying to dablished themselves as as

(01:47:01):
the sheriff of the block. Uh. Oh god, I didn't
even mention death row. Uh. You know there are other
labels that are vying for that number one spot and
we know that. And for the most part, Uh, in
an hour, you could probably squeeze in six to seven songs.

(01:47:22):
You guys are starting your muscle period at least of
of you know of about to you know, so what,
But I'm just saying that it's true though, you know,
is this some Mars Levy Part two? Things like how

(01:47:44):
do you muscle radio to stay on your side? Like?
Is it like, yo, I'm really feeling that song doing it? Okay,
I'm gonna just play it a whole forty two billion times?
Or is it a new level of shaking hands and
kiss some babies that you probably can't technically get into

(01:48:05):
like has that ever stopped? Uh? Let me let me
say this to you. And I couldn't say this, not
one thing of what hatten any seven without without I'm
telling him he's acting about we talked COT seven right?
Well yeah, I mean, well, you know, we live in

(01:48:25):
New York City and I'm hot. Ninety seven is the
station that if flex is feeling it, then chances are
that the ripple effects gonna happen. And this guy in
Cleveland is gonna play it, in the station in Seattle
is gonna play it. But the thing is is that
I wouldn't believe that. Okay, a fan is calling in, Yes,

(01:48:48):
I need to hear doing it by l O like again.
But let me give the truth though. So like you,
you're you're a guy that had hits, You have hits
under your belt? How do you make your those hits
keep coming? And that there? And I mean like a
song for you, A good day of radio rotation is

(01:49:11):
how many times at its height, how many times do
you want your hit song played a day on one station?
Is it thirty five times a day? I don't think
any one particular record will play thirty five times a day,
because if it did, it would play thirty five times
seven and whatever. But but let me give you this,
and I'm not this is not a hostile got your question.

(01:49:33):
I just I just want to know that the science
of how like for me growing up and remember radio,
it was like the DJ wants to be the cool dude,
and hey, I'm gonna put you onto this record. Oh
I might play this album cut where now it's like,
I don't think you know you guys are a label
with frown on an album cut. Like if it were

(01:49:54):
up to me, Mr Smith, I would play that no
airplay is you wouldn't no, I see, I would play
the Eric Eric Surton remix something I actually girl, you
know it's true and didn't get caught and I don't

(01:50:15):
want to mention and get a lawsuit on that. Okay,
a record like doing it? What are you expecting? Hot
nine seven? How many times do you want to hear
it in a twenty four hour period? Heavy rotation? I mean,
is that eighteen times a day at least? So I

(01:50:38):
think at that particular time it was probably most price
sixty two times in a week. So if you so,
you're going by a week you're not going by daily
because you because program changed over the weekend. They go
to weekend programming. It's like it's different stuff. And back
then it was call out, you know what I mean?
Where if the record called out? And it still is
now and now it's PPM and all these from kind

(01:51:00):
of metrics and um that are going on. But I
have to say what people forgot and what we try
to radio was the last stop with us. Okay, we're
doing it. Quest if you came to the tunnel with
me and heard what Cap did guard rest his soul
um and the walk in our and then what Flex

(01:51:24):
did doing it? Drinks got spilled every soon as that
beginning came on, it was and we made all make
sure all our records that we went to radio with
they had to get. We called it the tunnel tests.
If you plan between twelve and three o'clock in the tunnel,
get at me dog when we dropped me. So we

(01:51:45):
knew it wasn't um gonna be a big radio record,
but it lit the tunnel up. Redman, the method man,
the uh no no no water rock water. There's the
two verses in the but you go when you went
to the tunnel place. And so my thing is, so,

(01:52:10):
who do you have to convince at whatever radios? And
I'm not even gonna sing ninety seven? Who do you
have to convince? At? First of all, are you at
this point talking to a clear channel person who control
or who controls a hundred sass across them? Are you not?
Back then, so you had individual individual program director. So

(01:52:33):
back then it was Steve Smith and Tracy Clardy at
Hot ninety seven. UM. Today is THEA mitchem and Ge
Wears at Pole one oh five. I'm just from New York.
I mean there's a lot of but then there's now
there's clusters too. So THEA runs a cluster, and there's
Doc Winner who runs the Urban Cluster fall of clear Channels, UM,

(01:52:54):
and then there's uh J. Stevens for Radio one UM cluster,
and then Ken Johnson and Foot's one of those down
the south whatever. So it's it's clustered now, but back
then with individual program directors, the music directors. Okay, so
I'll say a few episodes back um we have former
president beaten former still president and BT. Sorry and Stephen

(01:53:26):
Hill mentioned, uh one of his regrets when he first
worked at MTV was that he probably could have lit
a fire under them to really give more support to
your all. I need to get buy by Method Man
and Mary J. Blige And now in my head, I
was like, wait, that record is everywhere, So of course

(01:53:46):
he's like nope, He's like, it could have been even stronger.
It could have been so much more bigger and way ubiquitous.
So for a record like that, you know, how do
you convince? First of all, why would people resist? Why

(01:54:06):
would people have resistance to it because it was just
an unorthodox sounding street song or I think the Method
Man had more to do what people didn't go immediately
on that record was just like, oh, this is an
instant hit. It was an instant hit. But you gotta
understand something. So back then, um, people wanted to be

(01:54:32):
safe and Method Man wasn't safe for them. That wasn't safe.
The record was safe Method Man that the personality also, Yes, listen,
I had a record. Um, so I'm gonna give you
uh uh. I would say what you know? Me goos

(01:54:56):
right now, bad bad and bui your life has changed
for you since Donald Glover a long time ago, during
the show a month or two back, gave a shout
out now and shout out to Donald Glover. So, um,
we couldn't get me goes on late night TV. Mh,

(01:55:25):
I'll talk to you about that. But we couldn't. We couldn't.
I would love them magazines. Um, I couldn't get certain things.
And so the group was like, well why can't, why
can't we? And then a moment happened and now everybody's
fighting over everybody, And so I can only say this
to you to say Radio didn't see them club. There

(01:55:51):
was a club group. You know, Raio didn't see him
a certain way. TV didn't see him a certain way.
And you gotta think about method man at that time,
he was kind of dirty looking thing he started to
That was the moment we started to clean them up.
But I thought he was be accessible. But can I
just say, just for the record, somebody a pretty told

(01:56:11):
me once that the Roots didn't have enough personality, Like
if you really think that is not like that, it's
like really, And I was like, what are you talking about?
I told you that, I fighting, Like what are you
talking about? Love does this? And you'd be surprised that
the whole personality thing just well that's the thing, like
what really determines a hit, like can we because you know,

(01:56:34):
I came from an era where it was like, hey,
if we just get somebody sings some R and B hit,
you guys are gonna have a hit, and that's not
necessarily the case. And then you know, it's like if
you fall into a nepotism loop. Uh okay, let's say
Foxy Brown, am I assument I shot you? Was her

(01:56:58):
first appearance? First appearance or was it ain't? Like not anything?
I think I think got shot to Beyonce with you.
I think her first appearance was I shot you and
then it was ain't. So it would have been would
have been a hard sale for you guys to push

(01:57:20):
Gotta get you home or or uh, I'll be good,
I'll be the right. Would have been harder for you
guys to promote her had she not had the nepotism
association of being on a posse cut doing first, doing
a good job on a posse cut. But I don't

(01:57:42):
even think doing a good job or doing a bad
job even matters. But no, back then, it was like, oh, ship,
she's been right and she looked good. So this is
a can't lose situation, like to break out an artist
of that level. Was it a hard cell? Like do

(01:58:03):
you have to have uh pinpoint board and white board
and do all these like mathematic theories for radio programmers
to to to see your vision on a Foxy Brown
or a child someone unproven, it's it's it's okay. So
our secret sauce was we never worked just the record.

(01:58:26):
We always believe we were working a brand. So Foxy
wasn't about, um, what was the record? Uh? The big record? Uh,
it wasn't just get you home. It was about as
much as get your shot you. It was both. It
was the same amount of effort because we were building
a brand, and when building a brand, you gotta lay

(01:58:48):
a solid foundation. So it's never about radio. To me,
it was just not the radio became Okay, I got
the street lot, I got the sheet, people respect, Okay,
we put it with this person, Okay, put on this tour. Okay,
now we're ready for that. But does it help to
also have the deaf cham logo in other words like
well not have you ever got what's what's what's what's

(01:59:13):
a heartbreaking no that you got during your stretch? Okay?
J hates and I think he does it just to
be asshole sometimes he hates in my lifetime, like just
the I think you know what, I'm like it whatever
Volume one, Volume one, yeah, yeah, yeah, well no, no, no,

(01:59:37):
is that the one that had touched my heart? Now
doing like Sunshine? How are you guys working Sunshine? And
to the point where now Dame's like, yo, we gotta
make a street movie real quick and get him back
to home base and established a street cred because I

(01:59:58):
didn't even see it as like, oh, you're losing your
street career by rhyming over with baby Face. It was
um um reach but wait, it's it's almost like I'm sorry,
only because the Flaming Lips uh were recently on the
Tonight Show a long time ago, and I think about

(02:00:20):
the whole New I think about the whole New Rock
uh Flaming Lips video fiasco where it's like, yeah, where
it was like that was and I'm like you shot
the video with him, like how did you not know that?
But for me, he recorded the record, he made the
video and he was obviously reaching. Yeah. It's like it's

(02:00:43):
a committee like it just like saying I accidentally posted
a picture Instagram. No you didn't you know what any
steps to take the post picture Instagram. I think he
experiment made up made a record. Um, but why couldn't
a song like Sunshine, which by the numbers should have won.
But that's just wasn't a good song though like that,

(02:01:04):
But what is a good song? During that period? Was
effective or not? Right? That ship was ineffective. But the
thing is is that, Okay, give me, okay, what's that
I'm trying to give me? Give me and give me
a job? Will either put it on me or I

(02:01:25):
mean all of them? Job do you want to do?
I do sample everybody living it up? That was the
living it up. It's the formula. Okay, okay, let's take
a living up. I actually would give the advantage to
living it up. I kind of, But I'm trying to

(02:01:45):
think of like just a hit for deaf jam that
was like, yeah, it's a hit. Uh okay, let's go
with Gotta Get You Home? That was that was a jam?
Well it was because it was a hit. It was
like you were told ill Matic was a classic? Was

(02:02:06):
it a classic? Instantly? You were told? Instantly? I read
it like it's almost like like like your hand was
forced on it, Like why why wasn't why wasn't the
machine that built by you guys had a formula so

(02:02:26):
amazingly like bulletproof. Why couldn't that work for Sunshine? Because
I believe um good records work and bad ones don't. Wow,
that ship won't jamine by the way the record and

(02:02:51):
I worked the wreck, I was mad at people, You're
not gonna play baby Face Foxy and you're not gonna
play that, and I took offense to it. But the
art of being a promo guy, there will be another record.
I'm never worried about whether people would uh played the
record or not, because I'm gonna come back with him again.

(02:03:11):
And guess what Jay's next album. I reminded them, Okay, wait, wait, wait,
time out time, because I really want to talk to
you about your Rockefeller relationship with Damon Desh And I
know you're so tired of talking about the Jackets, and
I was anover tired of talk about the jackets he was.

(02:03:34):
So he comes at you guys with the song that's
like seventies seven beach per minute. It wasn't even it
wasn't even a jam. So to one in My Life
is a hard song to to blend in mixing it's

(02:03:59):
very slow. In today's environment where the average song is
yeah like SI could work in two thousand and sixteen,
but back in there was no the average meter was
was was He's coming at you with a record that's

(02:04:19):
eight two b p m s. There's a bunch of
kids singing. You know. It was a risk, like a
Broadway song. Delivery is weird? Yeah, how did you guys? Now? That?
To me was the hell Mary throw of all hell marries.
I think the novelty was part of it, just because
of the fact that it was a very slow song
with the whole the ironic song, because he tried it

(02:04:40):
again with anything that didn't work. I think it was
a moment in time. I don't think that could ever
be repeated. And it was a jay Z moment. But
was there uh what do you call it? When you're
when you're was there a sort of a gun side thing,

(02:05:00):
like we can't fumble this one because let's not even
looking at as a fumble because the out went platinum. Yeah,
I don't. I don't think it would be honest with
you again, I never looked at it. Jay Z's brand
to us, Rockefellow brand to us because we had things
that was very successful, and we had things that didn't work,
you know, but his brand was so important to us,

(02:05:23):
his friendship was so important to us that it just
wasn't about one particular record. I know with with Hope,
He's gonna always make that record because I believe he's
that guy. That's another one of those you know what
I mean, that that that I would do anything for
because I know his Um, he's he's it's just as

(02:05:45):
an m C. Yeah, he wanted those man and hard
knocked like you got that couldn't work for everybody. Everybody
couldn't do They couldn't do that that they couldn't do,
and so he was just it was the one on
one for him if you're just suiting them. We're heading
to our final hour with Kevin Lyng was talking about
his time as president of def JAM at the turn

(02:06:08):
of the century. Um, what was it like daily just
dealing with Dame dash and on on one line? By
this point, I know, IRV it was IRV got a
hard Uh. I know you're gonna say that nobody was
hard to do, and I know I'm gonna tell you,

(02:06:30):
but intensely Dame was challenging. Okay, Um, IRV and if
you talk to him to this day, IRV to me
when I left, Um, if IRV didn't implode the way
he did around his whole thing, and Dame didn't implode
the way he did, they were being primed to take over.

(02:06:54):
And I'm just today were they were real record guys.
I mean, I'm being honest. Do you still feel that
they have the business acumen too, at least advanced the
wisdom that they've gained, because I just refused to believe
that they're that damn disposable, like it was like a
moment of time. I don't. I don't think they don't
think the moment in times. I think they made choices

(02:07:17):
and decisions that they have to live by. And I
think if Erv wanted to be in the business, um
he could be in the business. I think that Dame
has chosen a different You gotta understand something Dan came.
It was it was a traffected with them, you know
what I mean. So I'm sure that goes through you
know some people. It's like I said, I know I
can do it by myself, but I don't want to

(02:07:38):
do it by myself. That's why I mean, literally have
been together you know my my whole career per se.
So um, some people don't want to do it byself.
I really don't think Dame wants to do it by myself.
And that's that's to be quite honestly. You know, I'm
not sure why, but and and Erv I talked to
every day. We we we we we we were friends.
Or not to put you on the spot, but if

(02:07:59):
he I'm saying there's a male room position that three hundred,
I don't mean that. But are there people in this
industry that you would rather not choose to work with again?
Or is it just like you'll find where your system

(02:08:23):
is right now? And UM let me, I'm gonna try
to put this in there right because I want to know,
like the genius and the stronghold of Rockefeller, I'm trying
to figure out if that was Dame's constant uh intensity

(02:08:44):
or was that jay Z's lucky streak like who had
the forty nine advantage? I think it was. It's always
gonna be a whole because he was the one that
kept the lights on in building. But every team, um
needs a Dennis robin Um and I think Jay wasn't

(02:09:08):
a big talker. Dame did the talking Bigs wasn't a
big talk at all. He didn't really talk, you know
what I mean, He just you know, did do not
and say yo. So that's a well that said. If okay,
let's let's trade off. Let's take let's take Dash out
of this situation. Let's put Chris Litte in that situation. Now,

(02:09:29):
Chris Litty is the right hand to Hove, will we
have the same results or do you need someone that
is just the flavor to a chuck d like Let
let me let me say this to you. I think
there's a lot of things that um put that whole

(02:09:51):
situation into the stratosphere where it was at that particular time.
I'll be be a sucker and a bit if I
didn't sit and say that Dame's contribution to Rockefeller was
not a lot. I'll be be corny and whack to

(02:10:12):
say that Bigs didn't. And I also be disrespectful to
say Hove was not the reason. You understand, So you
can't you can't. You can't put um you don't do
because I wouldn't know that because I've never seen I
know Jay is very ambitious, and I know that he

(02:10:32):
it's kind of a chess player and thinks in terms
of moves. But I always thought like you need you
needed a trojan horse or a battering ram two at least,
how be it revisionist history or not. I mean you
you'll hear everyone's tale of well I made it happen.

(02:10:55):
Well I made it happen. Well I made it happen.
You know you hear like all these versions of it.
So it's just like we never looked at it like that.
I think them being with us helped a lot. Um.
I think we provided a platform to them to be
great entrepreneurs. We gave them a lot of opportunity, taught
them a lot of things, and to be quite honest,
they told us some things. Um told us about taking

(02:11:17):
risks toward us, about just believe it again. If might
sound funny, but Um, from all the guys, I really
feel like we were just meant to be the reason
we ran the boards, because we were meant to be together,
meant to be together. I'm told you talking about wars,
we'd have been to some things. Yeah, I was gonna say,
knowing that your history, were you meditating at this point
at least? Like how are you surviving? Because I mean

(02:11:43):
I'm I'm probably a passive aggressive boss in at least
twelve of my ventures. I just you know, what are
you pointing me for? No? This this is the Have
I been aggressive to you? Have I been aggressive to you?
It's you're having at Yes, I have been very aggressive.

(02:12:08):
I said, you are a passive aggressive boss. Yes, that
is the truth. You already said it's school. Oh well,
you don't have to intensify that, witness. I just want
you to know there was You didn't have to quick anyway.
But my point is that, how how does this not
land you in the hospital? How is this not? Actually?
Did um said? I did not know that? But not

(02:12:32):
not not not. I didn't realize that at the time. Um,
But when you work with my life, you know. And
and I had gotten so big. I was three and
twenty pounds Jesus Christ, I totally forgot that. And so
the issue I realized my my addiction was food and

(02:12:55):
the reason. And because I was on the road all time,
I never really cared about I just eight in the
eight and eight and then I started stressed, you know,
And so I started to realize that ship something wrong.
Blood clout here, bye bye this And I remember LEAs
said this, He said, I want to think about this.

(02:13:17):
I had five million dollars. Am I gonna give it
to you fat fuck? Am I gonna give it to
the healthy guy? Wow moment moment, And so I only
say that I didn't realize that at that time. And
sometimes you don't realize what you're going through. But their
addiction to food stress eating is People called it almost

(02:13:40):
cost me my life, diabetes the whole thing. So um
wherebetes I? When I was in digestion problems? I was.
I was, when I tell you, you know, a very
reggie rads, very big cap. All these guys were overweight,
um dibby eats and the whole nine. How old are

(02:14:02):
you this time? At my biggest probably thirty two? That
was a big because your initial weight loss was a lot,
Like you dropped a lot of pounds. I went from
three I'm now where one nine? Wow? Oh no, I'm
current that a small Yeah. I had a similar scare.

(02:14:28):
And I'm like in my second month of of being
a vegan, which I gotta ask, is there ever time
where you just stopped counting the days like a prisoner?
Like I dream of pancakes every I have a diary,

(02:14:49):
and I'm like, Dave, I'm serious, like blood, I changed
it's lifestyle now, um, it's um. I look at food,
eat food for energy. So you're not a no sugar,
no dairy anymore because you were no sugar. Um still
fried no fried foods um and um cheese. You know

(02:15:15):
what I mean. I do. I'm I'm people know me.
I eat the same thing every day, you know what
I mean? So egg whites uh in the morning, mushrooms, onions, peppers,
slice turkey meat inside. Um. Someone looks like Kevin Love, like,
let's get lunch now. Lunches normally fish and Brussels sprouts

(02:15:38):
or broccoli rob and then then I'll eat some seafood, webber, shrimp,
Alaska king crablegs, but always protein and vegetables the same.
And now I made a commitment forty eight by fifty.
I want to be in the best shape in my life.
So I'm doing CrossFit three days a week and I'm
doing rowing every day. You know what I mean. I
hate ruin. Do you do that machine where you have

(02:16:01):
to do the two thousand? Uh? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I
love you so much that I put it in my house.
I bought one from my eyes exactly. Yeah, I purposely
try to break the chair on that PROCEEDEYM shout out
to coach Greg. I'll beat there in my eight o'clock inspiration. Jeezus.

(02:16:26):
So I got that answer you ask. But I'm gonna
tell you a question that's on the wait thing. Um,
so many people look at you and follow you. You
know what kind of light you would shine if you
did become healthy. And I'm not saying you're not healthy,
but just if you did, um the light that you

(02:16:48):
would bring um to pieces. Because people think that I'm
now the Nazi asshole for like all the health stuff
I've been putting up. You know you not the people
who don't know they're looking at it, but people more
people think it's great. I think I think you'd be
such an inspiration to people, and you touch people's lives.

(02:17:10):
I can't tell you. People who send me messages that
you know forget me being who I am and the
things that I've done, just the commitment because I've been
I've lost weight and it's now going to ten years. Um,
I don't count count days or anything. I really truly
eat for energy. You may only eat enough stuff. I

(02:17:30):
don't wonderful. Full fullest is nasty to me. Full makes
me feel sluggish in a certain way. Um, so I
pray for you and I hope that you find you
know the light enough to follow the light and shine
light on other people. Wow. Thanks, I feel like I
just got blessed by I would eat is Rick Ross

(02:17:53):
and it's like a pure blessing. And who got me
the sugar? Stevens our resident diabetes That yeah, he's out
probably smoking a cigarette, like eating the cake coming Like

(02:18:14):
what did that mean? So? Uh, what your your exit?
Actually the three of you left def JAM at the
same time corrected two thousand and six. Uh, they were
there when we signed to Atlantic. So Leo left first. Um,
I was there at president CEO deaf Jam. Uh. Julie

(02:18:37):
was there as the execut Press President Island President. She
left and then um, and I always tell a story,
So it's me and l A and I felt like
what was was the synergies the same? I mean it
was it was my company, you know what I mean,
we ran it. I just so I had the keys,

(02:18:58):
but I didn't have the house, so so and Doug
and then they just didn't know. They didn't trust me enough.
Because I was leader's guy, you know what I mean.
And so they told me you should come and you know,
stay and understand. I said, listen, I love l A,
my my friend, and it's like somebody as another guy

(02:19:18):
that I think the world of, and we can do
great We don't do the same thing, you know what
I mean. We can do great things together. Were disappointed
that they didn't offer you that I wasn't. I wasn't
saying again, I wasn't that it was meant to be,
So I don't. I don't live in only time we
at this point where they said you got you'ren't gonna
give me the job. That was the only time I
was this point. Other than that, I take life for
what it has to give me. But that's why I'm

(02:19:40):
so critical on my choices and the things that I
I do and how I treat people. So with l A,
I looked at it. I said, Yo, so I don't
want people doing the l As people and Camins people.
Then I'm not gonna let them do that to to
African Americans at an institution like DEFTN. I can't do that, Yea.

(02:20:01):
So I'm out, my man, but I gotta go. He
said yo. No, he said no, I said no, But
I'm doing this for us. I'm doing this for us
because you deserve and respectful what you have and respect
of what you've done is executive. You don't need a
hindrance to you doing what you need to do. This

(02:20:22):
is deaf Jam, you know what I mean, This is
island deaf Jam. You. I need you to have full
control and anything. So I'm gonna help as much as
I can. But I think it's best that, Um, I
give you. You have the house, I give you the
keys also, So that's what it was. So in your success,
it was Jay right or Jay? Was that? What do

(02:20:44):
you think of that period? Like were you shocked or
did you feel that that was not natural? But like
was it was it something that you believed in or not?
I think it was it was you gotta it was
necessary two um, because you gotta understand that I'm ten

(02:21:08):
years now, I'm fifteen years there and so people that
some kids who don't know Russell was president of the
death jail, you know. I mean there's some millennials that
don't know that. They think it was me. You know,
I found it and think so you know the issue
I think that they had with Leo not me not
being there, they had to have someone there with enough

(02:21:32):
um gravitas, enough like the attraction and success that would
stop the bleeding, you know what I mean? But why
do you think that art it didn't during that time.
It seemed like the artists on roster weren't as happy
as they were before, some of the people who have
been there for a while. I think it's it's management styles,

(02:21:53):
I think, um, and how do you how do you
deal with the fading like like E P M d
s situation for instance, Like you know, how do you
take a legacy act that might not necessarily be as open?
I mean, am I to assume? I don't? I don't,
like I never know what ll L's processes. He just

(02:22:15):
seems to me that he's just open two ideas and
if it's and if it's a good idea, I'll go
with it. I know plenty of artists that would, you know,
turn their back on a hit for fear of like
I don't want to look bad for my boys, thinging
da dada. But how do you take a legacy act

(02:22:38):
that was good for the label like E P M
D Or Eric Sermon and that sort of thing like
if the expiration is up and they're like, okay, well
we're back in business or that thing like what was
back of business? Out of business? So, I mean, that's

(02:22:58):
why we're going to it's a question. So for that
for those comeback records, like are they having these like uh,
these frothy goals of like oh man, we're back to
our you know, our our regular platinum status and you know,
the world's gonna know who we are because they were
never platinum, well they were gold. Go What I'm trying

(02:23:21):
to say is their expectation was to be able to
go out on the road and perform for their fans.
Uh ser Eric sermon. Um. His expectations was to be
able to produce. You gotta you gotta remember when we
did back in business and then it was another one
out of business. You know. Um Um. These were albums

(02:23:46):
done out of love. It wasn't like that it was
an exportation. Oh we're gonna go and get jet. It
was not that. It was that, Yo, we still want
to do it, so help us do it. And that's
what I That's what I did, and I think we
did Eric did some great Eric did the four three
two one remix for me and and I always say,
so if he can bless me there, I have to

(02:24:08):
be able to work with them. And the joke was
the group was called K E. P M D. Because
I was I was always stayed right with them too,
you know what I mean. So that was I mean
through all that, I went through all the thinking, so
that that must have been a part of the culture
show because I remember when you left l L. It
seemed like it was definitely a difference in him, like
a mirror. I'm not just not got your moment. However,

(02:24:30):
he definitely made it know now he felt about the
new administration and how did how did that affect you?
Because it just seemed like the whole camaraderie that whatever
you brought, that joy that you brought to that building,
it got him down. I think it's a different I mean,
you gotta look at different administrations coming every four years,
and I think that but you learned how to deal

(02:24:51):
with them. Um, I think, Okay, maybe that feeling wasn't there,
but rih honest, there right, But did he but did?
I mean, y'all are friends, so I'm sure he's like
called you like I can't deal did did you have to? UM?
I think people knew, people know me and hope you
know what I mean. People know that. UM. If he
called me today and said, Yo, I need you to

(02:25:14):
to run this or do this, that's my guy. I'm
gonna do whatever I can for him. But vice versa.
Like people can't call him, I can call him and say, yo,
I need It's not money thing, you know, and he'll
He'll be there. And the rest of these kids always
told HI, when I left, it was emotional for me.
You know, you gotta understand something. I took that badge

(02:25:35):
and the only thing I don't have as a tattoo
with with deaf to him. UM. And these were brothers
and sons and daughters that UM, and aunts and people
who I came up with in the business. UM. But
at the end of the day, UM, they have to
do what's best for their families like I had to
do what's best for my families. And I got I

(02:25:56):
got some of the calls. But I will always say,
remember when Rick and when Rick left, there was Lear
change the administration. When Lea we grew so big, Lear
had to have Kevin Loos change administration. In the same
way some artists people. It's people who felt a deft
And when I came in, when they named me president,

(02:26:17):
some people left. Some people through ship all they couldn't
believe how left they couldn't they couldn't believe how they
named me. People cried that. So so even despite you
coming in first and leaving less, what about that? Because
the culture wasn't about um, how can I say? Uh?

(02:26:38):
The team it was more so about we def jam
and and it wasn't. And to me, I'm okay with
being in the backseat driving and being and I'm clearly
being on the roof. Put me in the trunk. I'm
okay with weeb as long as we accomplished the goal
and what's the greater good? And so I just think
it's a different when new administrations come in, they have
to cater to the artists. And when you don't cater

(02:27:01):
to art um, the paint starts to peel. And so
that's what I think. You know, I wanna I wanna
ask um if you can't name me three three artists
or three acts, don't get me a trouble question, Kevin low,

(02:27:22):
I love you, man, I'm not got you name me
three X that got away. I could have had blah
blah blah, like damn if we just they went somewhere else,
Like what three acts could you? Could you have signed?

(02:27:43):
Or had that got away Nelly? WHOA? How close was
Nelly negotiations with the ChIL Um and what caused it
to not happen? I know someone had to say, oh,
this guy will never sell this. Um. I just think
it was a timing issue and we were we were

(02:28:05):
a really like coast based label, East Coast and West Coast,
and I didn't understand it. Um. I think um Leo
didn't like it. UM. I think, uh, fifty cent Wait
a minute, you're trying to tell me Christy managed him. Yeah,

(02:28:32):
what happened? I never thought of that. So if Lody
would have signed fifty cent and Row was on the
label at the same time, yeah, that would have been crazy.
We listen or was that an issue? No? The best
thing for everybody, And again I deal with a greater good.
UM fifty had an opportunity to be with Dre. I

(02:28:56):
believe A fifty would have been with us. You mean
you had a when he signed the Columbia the first
time or like after period after Columbia, after clumb. Oh. Yeah,
could have took him like mixtape. I mean mixtape. I mean,
we could have signed fifty. But the greater good called
and the greater good was um Yo. I think that's

(02:29:19):
the better situation. And I think that um because of
Dr Dreke, because of the whole thing that came along
with And I think that because of the choice that
he made. I think uh, he became um the artist
that he is. I don't think we could have did
as great of a job with uh with him as
they did. So I think that was one. And then

(02:29:44):
who else said you got me three? Man? I mean,
it doesn't have to be hip hop. I'm sure there's
some singer let me see, Uh. I mean, ain't that
many that if we wanted him, we didn't get to brag?
Um No, I really like, I'm I can't endore my era.

(02:30:07):
I can't think I'm another never never act that if
we really wanted them, that we didn't get him. Yeah,
I would say. And and by the way, they're both
very good friends. Um. I went on to manage Nellie,
you know, fo a period of time, so he's um,
shoutout to Nellie, shout out the fifty. Do you have

(02:30:28):
a favorite era of Deaf Jam because we didn't even
talk about Death SHOWLD or anything else. But I'm just
curious because I remember that was like a big deal.
So so I'm just curious that you have a I
don't mean this is I don't have a favorite era
era that meant the mostly I guess the favorite word
is it? Are you one of those like I never
looked back once, I'm looking towards the touchdown goal. Yeah,

(02:30:50):
I said. I'm just I'm not doing this, no, none
of that, because I really believe if you stay in
the state of evolution, you make change. I don't. I
don't feel like, um, I don't want to be stagnant.
So therefore I don't spend my time just reflecting on

(02:31:14):
the roses. I smell them, but I don't sit back
and and look, you know at what I what I did.
That's why, Like now I can sit here and say,
you know when streaming started and uh we had the
first artist of stream a billion streams with Fetty Way,
I can see here today and say you got the
number one rock record? How you says back? I say,
and the day and say I got me goes. I've

(02:31:34):
ever talked I can sit and say I got a
guy named young Thug that's you know, putting out so
many records that I can say all these things um
in a sense. But now if you want me to
go back and talk about that, we can talk about
to day and how you managing and having labeled at
the same time and doing so much all that. But
you know, I was I just really looked forward um

(02:31:56):
to um what God has prepared know, but I gotta
work at it though. You know what I tell people,
you really don't want it, if you're not willing to
give up everything for it, I really don't really don't
want it. And a lot of kids today they don't
want it. They act like they want it, but they
don't want it. They don't want to ask if they
don't have the drive that you had. It's not about
It's not about drive. I mean, I believe, I believe

(02:32:20):
every day I'm um, I'm trying to prove to you
that I'm Michael Jordan's every day still to this day,
still Michael Jordan's still Michael Jordan, not not no, no,
Michael Jordan's I play, I play, I play hard. So

(02:32:42):
in your world, like it's not about Okay, well you
know I should be in coach position or even owner
position or what's funny? Is you gotta I owned a
piece of death, dam mat, I don't know what. I
don't know what it is not to be owner. I

(02:33:02):
own one of music group um our own three D
you know with I don't know our own K. I
don't know what it is not the own, So I don't.
I don't, but I don't know what I would do
if I did. I couldn't play. Do you think your
journey could exist in seventeen like the way did you
started your journey? Continue your journey like that? Still at

(02:33:25):
your office making sure that so now now I got
I got, I got a lot of a lot of
young kids who I feel like, Um, do you feel
millennials even have that drive at all? I think some do?
I think some? Do you think you find the right ones?

(02:33:46):
I think, um, c J's one. I think I got
another kid in my office who was like the third
person and the Google class in interns. Um, I think
uh ashes one. UM, I think I got another marketing
person named Raina. Who's I mean, they're there? You know
what I mean? But what what happened? Question? Um? Is

(02:34:09):
that there's a period of time in our culture where
mentorship UM was lost because everybody, everybody got everybody got
scared for their jobs and they got selfish and so UM.
And that's called the only reason I came try came
back like a like A like I have UM. It's

(02:34:34):
because I don't need If you look at it, all
of the diversity and the music business and things like that,
there's not enough of us and UM. And but I
tell people you gotta be prepared for the moment. And
being prepared for the moment, it's making sure you're the
best you and you're having the biggest value proposition and
a lot of kids that's whatn't there. And so I

(02:34:55):
demand excellence. You're teaching and you just use that phrase
twice and this wholes Can you say that again? The
value proposiity because people say stuff they don't know what
it is, and that's kind of deep. But so I
believe there's a value proplished proposition on both sides. People
who come to me, can you give me a job?
I said no, But you can create a position with me.
What's your value proposition. I'm not gonna pay you what

(02:35:16):
you're going to create your position, to create your position
and then we'll talk about it. So if someone with
the gravity ties and nerve that Rockefeller had, when I
guess they told you guys like Dame had, not Rockefeller, Okay,

(02:35:40):
but no, no, no, no, no, in the way of
saying everybody had that role. That was that was his
role and he played well okay, well no, no, no again.
A lot of this. I'm just going on folklore that
you know, you always hear stories of and I just remember,

(02:36:01):
or at least what I was told was that when
they have the initial death chair meeting, it was like, no,
we want to be our own label, not just to
be an artist. Jay Damon Biggs came to my office.
Irvis said, Yo, you'll want to get your records played.
You gotta go see Kevin Laws. Okay, And so they
came to my office with a bag of money but

(02:36:25):
brown paper back and I said, Yo, let me hear
the music. You know, I just want to know, I
know life that heard you know in my lifetime that said,
but let me in the music. So I said, YO,
want you all to sign here? Jay said, we Rockefeller? Cool? Alright, cool?

(02:36:45):
So um, but yeah, we should stay in touch, and
I helped him get the record on the radio, and
then they did the record with Foxy and we put
that on the Rush Hour soundtrack, the first one in
the rest is history. That's believe that though, because that's
listen another time he said it when we all went
to the Warter Music Group, Um, Jay said, yo, And

(02:37:09):
how did y'all get him to agree to that? Uh,
Kevin's all smiles. Now, No, it's it's it's when it's
when you always think it a greater good. So when
Jay had the opportunity to work with us again, because
he got the whole lot next thing finished his commitment there,
he brought his album over to us in Atlantic, which

(02:37:33):
the Kingdom Come or the Part three Blueprint went three okay,
And and he didn't have to do that. He could
have did it anywhere in the world, but he chose
could you know, he could have did anywhere in the world.
And the reality of it was, Um, that's because of
a greater good, you know, man. And I believe we
all worked together again, and I believe I'm now with

(02:37:56):
Leo at YouTube there's gonna be a lot of opportunity
for more things that happen and our Caolt is gonna
even continue to grow more. I just want to wrap
up to where you are now, which is of course
between k W L and three Entertainment. Um, why would
you want to be a manager? Which means that I'm

(02:38:20):
certain that your phone are ringing off? TJ is already confirming.
Do you dread when the phone rings between eleven? I'm
sure you have a bat phone? That bat phone, which
is like, do not call this phone unless it's an

(02:38:43):
emerging right, Okay, you always show me all So when
phone number three rings at two in the morning, that's
in the car? Are you is there? Tremors? Are are you? Like? Oh? God?
So where I'm at in my life? People? Now, I
have a eighteen year old, six year old, five year

(02:39:05):
old two year old, have a wife. I'm not answering
the phone at a certain times, um, but it's out
of respect. But I make sure before I lay down
that everything's done. It's not an issue. And if I
do get a four o'clock in the morning call like
I did last week, um, it's already handled to a

(02:39:30):
point that I just gotta give the blessing, you know,
because I got people, have a company. It's not just
just me, I have people who are You're at the
top of the very competent amount, and I have to
just say I don't. I never wanted to manage. I
don't even feel like I managed right now. You don't
want to manage. You didn't want to be president, you
didn't want want artist. What do you want to do,

(02:39:52):
Kevin Um? Okay, let me tell you really want to
do it. I want to change people's lives, and right
now I'm doing it through music. I can't accept that
it's good because the truth, that's all I want to do.
And I really, honestly, I'll tell you and then we
can wrap up. So when I left one of musical

(02:40:13):
but I was done with the business, I said, I don't.
I said, you don't want to sign Chris Brown. You're
trying to tell me about you want to get rid
of this sarty. I said, yeah, I can't do that.
So I'm an executive vice president, so I don't have
a label. I'm the whole company, you know. And I said,
I think it's the business about the change. I think

(02:40:35):
I should look at the new business. Mouth takes some
time off, and so I worked out something with Warner
and Um for you know three years and everything's great.
My whole crew there and everything. And um, I met
this kid trade while I was there. He said, um, yo,
I got rid of my manager. I said, so, who's
your manager? He said Delante? I said, Delante was my

(02:40:57):
first intern ever in the music business. Said what's the problem, Well, well,
I said, yo. He said, I want you to manage
I say, I'm not manage you. I'm not waking up
telling you I'm not doing nothing. That what are y'all
talking about? Management? And I said, um, but go out
and talk to everybody and then come back and talk
to me, and let's make a decision. So his mom

(02:41:19):
calls me and says, um I, um cad my son.
I don't want to manage it. He wants you, he said.
He looks at you as your father fixed that's out. No,
he didn't. He didn't call me, he said. So then
he called and said, yo, um, I promise you. I'm

(02:41:42):
gonna do whatever I need to do to be and
I'm not going to act up. You know what I mean?
I said, I don't think you're gonna act up. I said,
but you gotta understand it's really you have to be
my partner I'm not your manager, really, I'm your partner
and we're gonna have to figure it out. And so
I agreed to do that, and then ten thousand other
people called. But that was out of necessity. Our friend

(02:42:06):
was out of necessity. It wasn't it was I didn't,
I don't want to make it. It was out of necessity.
I was about to say, what can we do to
not make d'angelo's fourth album come out in twenty m
labor love Man. I can just I can be honest
with you. Um, I know it's frustrating, you know, and

(02:42:26):
then you see a perform and it's like a forgiving
This is I mean, he wanted to LISTENIP He's one
of those I can say, listen, whether he makes ten albums,
five albums, two albums, for whatever he decides to make,
it will be damns on. It's only one of those.
And that's why I feel about it, and I'm there.

(02:42:48):
It's out of necessity. That's my my brother, you know.
I mean, that's somebody who like, um, I'm gonna be
there for him, you know, whether whether he's writing music, performing,
whatever he's doing, I'm gonna be there for right a
stage right. But but again it's out of necessity. That
was out of necessity. I have some acts that I
do because they want to beat but they all want
to beat me for different reasons, and so it's out

(02:43:09):
of necessity, you know. With that, Who are the acts
that you manage? Now? Um? PNB rock Um Philly, Yeah,
shout out to Philly. So out of the PNB Um
do you still have l No, I don't have her,
Ky Michelle. Um? Who else? I? Well West Walker from

(02:43:33):
another Philly white rep. Who? Uh Charles Jenkins, big pastor
out of Chicago. Um, shout out of Charles. I'm forgetting somebody. Um,
I'm forgetting somebody. Really, Oh, London on the track. Um.
And if I forgot you, I'm sorry, it's too late.

(02:43:54):
I'm sorry. Well, I thank you very much. Give it
up for our guests. Kevin Lass. I'm gonna take that,
though I might that mean my I can't be the
first person that ever called you a google. Um Russell

(02:44:14):
called me a priest, um rare Rale calls me the
governor instead of the governor. That because I cover everybody
but you you the first gurgle definitely, Oh Russell call
me Buddha now or years ago. Now, okay, okay, he said,
he said, you don't have to I have to meditate

(02:44:36):
Because I said I have to meditate. I said, you
don't have to. He said, you don't have to meditate.
You just nice. I said, yeah, I said, okay, cool.
My success to you, man. I appreciate your energy and
and and your your wisdom and your inside. Thank you
very much, man, Thank you, guys, bless you off. Thank you.
That was a very enlightening and positive. Do you think

(02:44:58):
we will just get in person to tell us the
most debauchery death jam stories of all time? He was
about to Did you notice that he was? He was
getting up to one and then we changed the subject.
He was, yeah, I thought he was gonna there. He was.
What he said was like Solomon Gore. It was like
blah blah blah blah, and then someone sets up now,
so it was like, now, yeah, I had fish for lunching,

(02:45:23):
fish for dinner, and fishing king crab legs, my home,
a book, vegetables, smells of rich mahogany vegetables. I was
afraid to ask if he remembered the Little Brother period
of that. That was my first time meeting him. That

(02:45:43):
was my first time. But I mean, but a lot
of what he was saying, you know, and even to
back up what he was saying, you know, for for
all instance purposes. I mean, they let us make the
album we wanted to make. I mean, that album, regardless
of what it did, you know financially, Uh, refer to
the Mental Show. You know, that record came straight out
of our hard drives to the world. And I don't

(02:46:06):
know if too many artists who can really say that,
you know, certainly at that time, you know what I mean. Um,
you know we that album came out exactly the way
we envisioned it, and so uh, you know, they were
always we had to change someself with the album cover.
But whatever than that, I mean, yeah, they were very

(02:46:26):
They let us do us you know what I'm saying.
Always be thankful to us. Kevin, Julie and Craig Juliet
on the show. I think Julie would be real, right.
I think Julie would be the one that would be
she would she would give it up wrong. I don't know.
Everybody else now is like doing yoga and ship. I

(02:46:47):
think Julie. I think Julia go in, did I ask
you what you learned. Uh, No, Kevin Lyles, what I learned.
I learned that, Um, to me, the most the people
that a lot of times that the most successful in
the business. You know, when he talks about just wanting
to add value to things, UM, that's something that's very amiable. Um,

(02:47:07):
that's something that I've always kind of, uh, try to
live my life by and that if I don't think
I can make something better, it doesn't have anything to
do with the money or you know whatever. It's just like,
if I don't think I can make this better than
your check, really don't mean nothing, you know what I'm saying,
Because if I'm not adding some kind of value to
it that I know only I can add, then you know,

(02:47:28):
I'm doing you a disservice by taking the money, and
I'm just gonna end up making us both look bad.
So that was something that really rang out to me,
and also to just a thing of him just kind
of not really playing for the paper, but just playing
for the position, agreeing to say, hey, I'll drive Houdini
because of what that's gonna mean. Not necessarily there may
not be a big payoff in it for me immediately,

(02:47:49):
but it may pay off for me down the line
and him. Even so, I'm still trying to digest that
you mean what you mean in what way? I mean,
I have no reason to believe that you know, he's right. Well,
that's a rare character trait too. Uh, I don't know,

(02:48:10):
to be so prepared and so willing to work and
so on time and so resourceful and so ready without
a destination or in game or even a dream. Well,
I think he said one of the things he said
was that he wanted to be the best at whatever
he was. Whatever. It wasn't necessarily like he was looking

(02:48:31):
for the touchdown. It was just like, if this is
who I am, then I'm going to be the best
at it. Yeah, that's the same. That does make bad
because you have aspirations. No, it's just somebody else's story,
just a journey. Does that make me a bad person?
If I see a monetary landing at the end of

(02:48:54):
this leap, it doesn't make you a bad person. But
at some point it's got to be something else. And
I I'm with you on that because after a while,
like Kevin and helping his people and go into the more,
you know, going to Morgan, being in Baltimore, being available like,
what is that money? Don't feed your soul, but James
Brown says Republican James Brown says in soul power gameliberated broke.

(02:49:19):
You can do both though. That's what Kevin Liles is doing,
That's what Richard Branson is doing. Yeah, I'm trying to
change lives too, but I definitely know that it ain't
nothing going on but the rent. Okay, where did you
learn this episode? What I learned to U? Two things,

(02:49:43):
Kevin lyles Um. Yes, So I have this theory that
which goes off what you were saying. It's like, it's
like you all get into the room for reason, right,
you have a talent or you're in the room for reason,
but you stay in the room because you're fun to
hang around with. That's like, I feel like that's about everything,
And that was kind of what he was getting. He's like,
he's a nice guy and like he would do all

(02:50:03):
the ship and do all this crazy stuff, but he
succeeded at the end of the day so profoundly because
he's a good dude. He's just like, he's not an asshole.
And secondly, he kept on saying stuff about storytelling, which
I thought was interesting. Which we were disagreeing one, which
is like East coast versus West coast, Like it wasn't
that one thing ended another thing began. It's just it's
just that's where it was. And because I feel like
I was thinking about this as he was saying, this

(02:50:24):
is like our life is like that, Like you're we
were into the Hamilton's thing for a minute, and now
that's kind of you know, it's not it's still this thing,
but it goes away and then something else kind of
pops up. You just kind of follow around this thing
and just hope that you can attack yourself to the
pulse of it as long as you can, because that's
what we're doing. That's artistry, whatever we're doing, you know,
And that's I thought that was just keep working. Yeah,
you just career, just have yes, but we but our

(02:50:47):
career is based in the fucking weirdest thing in the world,
like so large, yah, minus arts. I just learned that.
I guess you really can be a good guy in

(02:51:07):
this business. Although I'm still waiting for a bad story
about Kevin Loos because it's so hard to believe that
you can be a good cop. Like that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, right,
like that's amazing and a sea of Leon and Russell Kevin. Yeah,
trust me, I've heard Russell Simmons name as Hustle Simmons.

(02:51:31):
I've heard Lee I've never heard I've never heard Kevin
lies or Yeah, I've never heard that. I've never heard
that once. Um, Bill me, Yeah, what did I learn?
Boss Bill? Um? I didn't really learn anything. I just
got a lot of things reinforced. Um. I really wish

(02:51:53):
this was a conversation that I could have been a
part of on May four, two thousand two, before I
started my first job music industry. Um, Steve, you know
what you didn't learn? Yeah? Do you know what you
did not learn? How to get back into this room
getting text messages always from Steve? Who every time right here?

(02:52:17):
You left the room in such a glorious moment for you.
That's what happened to you. Were you did? What did
I not learn? Were you at the window like banging
on the window. I wish I was that close elevator,
because he would what did I not learned? Does he
manage Billy Joels? That would be your sugars? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

(02:52:43):
you guys were brothers. And then he talked about his diet,
and then we made fun of your diet, and then
you learn here then yeah, and then he blessed the mirror.
It was beautiful. It was I did learn some things?
Would you learn? He wrote in UM, Well, I want
to hear one of these songs with with ten turntables, right,

(02:53:06):
I mean I put it together in my heads, five
guys right each with two buddies. Math. That's one thing.
That's the one thing that we didn't clearly spend that
when he was talking about UM that he kept the
base like the thing of of Baltimore house music was
that they would turn any song into a four on

(02:53:28):
the floor song. So it doesn't matter. It could be
like Jumped by Van Helen. Somebody would spend Jump by
Van that somebody scratching and somebody playing baseline right. Yeah,
So he was saying that his job was just to
keep the steady eight. In Chicago, they would actually have
a guy played the eight o eight live in the booth.

(02:53:50):
So I don't know if he had the eight o
eight machine or he was just spinning records that had
a consistent Yeah, but you turned you turn every song
into a four on the floor song. So are there
albums that the listeners can can reference to hear ten
turntables playing. Well, I mean that's a live experience. It's
more of a live about to say that, like a
how they did it now? Right? Like no, I mean

(02:54:12):
not now. The only person I've seen that that actually
played more than four at once. Uh well, yeah, the
scratch pistle or or the executioners at one point we're
doing that. Um. The other stuff I learned was, I
think this must be the only person in the world
who took an internship when he had all that money, right,

(02:54:34):
I mean, that's that's something special, you know. I mean,
obviously you take internships to get your fright internship without
a goal at the end. I don't believe that part.
But then didn't take the boss job for two years,
like in right, he's like, I don't know it yet.
Actually I would do that. I would do that. I
would actually you say that, but like, no, I would

(02:54:56):
take that. But that's not if you know you're not ready.
It's like you know you're not gonna put me in
the position. But I come from a different places, which
is like to learn on the job, Like you know,
you know you're my brother, but I'm just saying, like,
because the thing is if I learned on the job

(02:55:16):
and sunk up, had another nigga for twenty years, like
I'm up everybody, but also running a label and crashing
and burning, it's a big, high profile thing you wouldn't
want to do. So telecommunications act, got it. We all
remember Andre Herow and then the whole Motown tobacco man.
Yeah he never lived that. I mean, how many streets

(02:55:40):
snipes did we see of Yah? I remember that. I
just have one in my head. It's one of It's
a shop from behind. He's sitting with a cigar, with
the cigar and the sweater draped on the back of
the chair. I think his name on it. That's all
I remember of his tenure mood Town. That's all I
remember to no music. I don'tber no James coming Um,
I learned more shit, alright, one yourself out? What else

(02:56:09):
did you learn, Steve Um? Well, you know that nice
guys don't always finish last. This guy seems to be
the exception to the rule, you know, And that's nice
to see if I mean, unless he's playing us and
I had I did. No, No, I don't, I don't,

(02:56:31):
I don't I think I think he made it on
humility and and and probably honesty and hard work and
all these really these nice things that we should all
people remember you when you yes, yes, people remember that ship. Well,
oh what else can I not learn more than two

(02:56:51):
or three fucking things in three hours? I had an idea.
I think, if you want to get one of these
real juicy stories to come out about the deaf jam
years that you're always trying to get, you gotta find
some cleaning lady who used to work there instead of

(02:57:12):
one of these executives and just and then you know,
we interview her. Well, look, you guys definitely uh echoed
the same sentiments about what I learned. I definitely know
that I want to hear uh Dame Dash the side
of the story. So I'm pointing this out there in
the atmosphere, Dame Dash, We're gunning for you and a

(02:57:33):
cleaning lady and the death we might be here, so
don't be afraid. Shots damn okay, alright, Fontigolo, Sugar Steve,

(02:57:58):
Boss Bill like yeah, aka Angry Margarete, Yeah, Unvey Bill
and even Scotty Yo and nice staff here this course
love supreme Vandura. We will see you on the flip side.
Thank you of course. Love Supreme is a production of

(02:58:27):
I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the
team at Pandora. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Laiya St. Clair

Questlove

Popular Podcasts

40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season

Dateline NBC

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}QLS Classic: Kevin Liles