QLS Classic: MC Serch

Latin Quarter staple, hip hop icon and founding member of 3rd Bass, MC Serch, shares stories from back in the day, including how he got his Mom into the rap game and how his beef with MC Hammer almost got him killed.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Ladies and Gentlemen, This is Quest Love and You're listening
to QLs classic. Of all of our archived episodes, this
is probably one of the most requested one. And yeah,

(00:20):
it's a wonder why if he searched of third Base
is one of the best storytellers in hip hop. I mean,
he's the king of I was there, this happened to me.
So many stories, so many stories, yes, including empurmous hammer.
How I'm not even going to spoil alert yeo from

(00:42):
February fifteen. From two thousand seventeen, this is the world famous,
long awaited return of the MC search episode of Quest
Love Supreme Classic Hope you and join? Wait wait stop stop,
stop stop stop stop? Does everyone get traumatized with every

(01:07):
organ at the top, like, where's the one, where's the corning?
There's never one? All right, we've never done everyone relax, Hello,
all right, yoga, let's do it. So Frema Rogue Callamama

(01:27):
Rogue area, Frema Rogue call, roll call coming about pet
Yeah it's Quest Love. Yeah, they've quit. Yeah, my name

(01:52):
is Fonte yeah, I don't rock no perm Yeah, don't
drink the milk. Yeah, because it's perma. Roma road call.
My name is Sugar. Yeah, I got the blues, yeah,
but not tonight. Yeah, so many Judea roll call, I

(02:22):
subrima roll call bill. Yeah, nowal in time's day. Yeah,
I hope that you. Yeah, got fucking lady, so Frima
road call some frim Son Subrima roll call. Yeah, I'm
in this space. Yeah, searches here. Yeah, we're gonna get

(02:46):
the gas, baby, roll deliver better roll brima son suprima rog.
My name is Search that big m C. Yeah. The
third base too, sucking their life. Ladies and gentlemen, if

(03:24):
you have ever said to yourself, I wish a mirror
would get to the point, I'm not even talking to
people that know me. For people that know look at
the room, just smiling like a motherfucker. I'm gonna tell
you for both. I'm gonna tell you for every long
winded epic story I've ever typed instagrams. You not having

(03:52):
the heart to be like all right, be wrap it up.
I get you want to paint the picture. I got
that from one person. That's a lot like I'm saying
Search you are. You are like my slick Rick. Your
your stories and your war stories and your experiences in

(04:13):
hip hop culture are one of my favorite recollected stories ever.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome MC search. Thank you,
thank you. Shout out to all the Jews in the building.

(04:35):
That's right, math, we're outnumbers, so happy Now I did
the math. It's to tie right, you did the math. Yeah,
that's good. That's good. Which makes it sound like prior
it wasn't like. It sounds like you got jumped like
you did back in Brooklyn, Like we just get ignored exactly.

(05:00):
They go to the white guy already, we're going in already. Um,
how you doing, man' I'm great. First of all, it's
great to be here. It's great to be and it
was great to see you in Orlando. Uh teared down
to building once again. Thank you for you guys who
don't know. I've had the pleasure of knowing this brother

(05:21):
for a very long time. And there's a funny family
storyline that goes with it, because the first time third
base reunited and went back out on soa Quest was
playing drums for D'Angelo and Third Base was opening for D'Angelo.
I took my daughter to this European She was six
years old, and she would fall asleep behind the stage

(05:41):
and you know, like just a mirror would be like
next to her all the time. Like, so I was like, Yo,
let's get a picture. So I got a picture Quest
and my daughter MyAnna, and then like every ten years
like my daughter and U. Yeah, it's like the evolution chart,
it's exactly right. So we have these like pictures and
we just took one, uh in Orlando a couple of

(06:03):
weeks when the roots we're in there. My daughters now
years old. I'll be nineties six when she's alright, So
search not wanting to waste a millisecond of your life
on this show. You started in Far Rockaway, Queens. Yes,
shout out to Far Rockaway, shout out to Hamlet Projects,
Red Fern, A K Way of crests, a K A

(06:24):
B seventeen Cigarette Boulevard, Avenue which road and KA reads lane? Alright,
So which a boy myself, what what part of Queens

(06:47):
is that that you're from that they rap about? So
Far Rockaway is right on the border of Long Island.
So far Rockaway, my block Queens was on this side
and literally one block over was Long Island on the
other side. And it was so funny because literally the
prices and houses, like my parents house in ninety seven
was like forty dollars and the house up the block,

(07:08):
literally around the corner was like two d thou dollars,
like just because of Long Island, because just the so
Long Island was considered the nice part of town. So nice,
so nice Long Island. The publican, No, that's that's a
little south that. Now you're going east and south. I'm
more like in Wood you lit see to Hurst, five

(07:31):
towns like around that area. So that's real jew area,
real Italian area. Colombo crime family, Cohen, all the good,
all the all the all the dudes that got laid
up like gaudy, all those dudes, they were all in
my neighborhood. Really Yeah. They would move people from Howard
Beach into like Inwood and run like gambling spots and

(07:54):
like poker parties and all sorts of crazy. Oh wait,
oh wait, yeah, okay, see what you're doing guy. See. So,
being like one as a new resident of New York City,
I'm slowly discovering that all the five boroughs are major

(08:18):
cities within themselves. Like coming from an outside of perspective,
you know, when I come here to record records, you know,
I'll just go straight to the hotel, go to studio,
really not do that much exploring around New York. But
now that I'm like I've been here for a couple
of years now, I'm slowly realizing that, oh, what makes
New York New York is the fact that all the

(08:38):
boroughs are like major cities within themselves. So being as
though you're all the way up there, every story I've
ever heard of about you was Manhattan stories, and and
and so it's like, how do you come from all
the way out there? How do you even infiltrate your
way into New York culture, at least the one that

(09:02):
embraced you and took you in. When I was in
middle school, there were schools in New York called public privates.
Where did you go to mid high school? I went
to I S fifty three Brian Piccolo, Yeah, PS two.
It was named after Brian Piccolo, a Chicago Bear player,
which still right, Brian. Soon we had to watch that

(09:22):
every year, and we were forced to cry at the end.
On gayl Sayers allegiance and long term friendship to a
dying Brian Piccolo. So anyway, so, um was that the movie?
It was Billy and James Conn James. So there were
these public privates, and I did not want to go

(09:43):
to far Rock High School, like I just there was
no way I was going. Was that the local high
school that was the local highest neighborhood famous for Jonah
Sulk who invented penicillin. As you know, so Jonah Sulk
went there. Um wow, phil Oaks full of information too. Yeah,
you just a wealth of worthless right now? I love that.

(10:08):
So I did not want to go. And my mother,
may she rest in peace, went to music in Art
High School in hallm So she said you should just
try out. So in eighth grade I went, I tried out,
and I got in and it turned out like even
my guidance counsel was like, really, Michael, you're gonna try out?
Like only two students in the history of our whole
school got into music and are like. I was like, well,

(10:30):
you know, I'm gonna be the third. And I went in.
I sang a traditional Hebrew song and he grew yes,
you did right now? Shells the sing that right now, Shellow,

(10:50):
my life is complete. Shells up hub exclusive I had
I had a mad I had a mad alto voice
like so um again early Michael Jackson, right like, enjoy yourself,

(11:12):
Michael Jackson, right up there. So I get into the school.
It's amazing. And um. The commute from Far Rockaway to
Hallam it was two hours in twelve minutes. So the
A train, the first the last stop on the A
train is not Avenue Far Rockaway, so you'd have to
take the A train through Queens through Brooklyn, through Manhattan
to go to a hundred and street, changed for the

(11:34):
one to go to a hundred thirty Confid Avenue and
then walk up to Hill St. Nicholas Hill. And they
called it a Castle on the hill because music and
all looked like a castle. So how that kind of
transcended New York was? I just knew the subways. I
learned the subways from an early age. But when I
went to music and at the very first day I
was there, they had freshman orientation and we got hooked

(11:58):
up with a senior and he was like, yo, you
want to come into the lunch room, like you know,
that's where everything is popping off. So it's like nine
o'clock in the morning and I hear these guys beating
on tables and I hear these dudes doing um their ramen,
and I'm like, I got some good Hebrew that could
go along with that. I'm like, yeah, like I could,
I could drop Yeah, I could drop some like and

(12:18):
I'm hearing the skit and I'm like, that sounds like
He'll Bully Girl from like the Can't Go Crew. I'm like, nah,
they're just biting. And there's this whole site for going on.
A guy's bouncing on table and I get like on
a table and I'm looking down and it's Lance Omega
Day in a Day and Ricky d and they are

(12:40):
yeah and Jakes in the frustram Ses and Lords trou
from the Eternal four. Oh my god. So I'm watching
him do he'll He'll Bully Girl? And I'm like, and
we had like third fourth generation, you know, cassette tapes
of what they used to do in the parks, Me
and my man Greg and my man Tommy, like we
like listen to that, Like, so I'm like, are you

(13:01):
kidding me? Like these guys go to my high school.
It's crazy. So they never had a record deal. No, no,
never have the two members besides Dan and Dane. It's
like Lance and Omega Lance DJ Lance right, No, not
Lance Romance, not DJ Lance. No. So there was just
just two of their homeboys from they all rhyme alike. Yes,

(13:22):
did they all have like yes, yes, yes, it definitely
like And it was definitely and Rick because he had
only come from London like five years prior. Like he
had a thick, thick British accent, and the girls just
it was moisture in that building, was great moisture in

(13:43):
the building. Then all of a sudden, like this dude
starts beatboxing, who doesn't go to my school, And they're like,
oh yo, Douggy, you gotta get out of here, like
just drop this beat real quick and then you could leave.
So he's just like so it's Dougie Fresh. He starts
beat boxing, and then in nineties he's in the high
school and he doesn't even go there. No, he's just
chilling in the lunch room and I just here, Ricky

(14:05):
go lotty dotty, lotty dotty. I'm like, like, so he
does the whole verse and for the whole year. I
mean the whole year from September to June. When we
had our ciphers in the lunch room, he would do
that that little skit called he called Lotty Dotty right,

(14:26):
and that would beat on tables. Let me tell you something,
I beat that ship so fast. I went back to
my hood and I was like, let me check out
this rhyme I wrote. I was getting chicks moist moisture,
So so they come out. Record blows up. I'm at
Hot Skates and Lynnbrook chilling with my boys records on

(14:49):
on Kiss Famine, Like midnight, you know somebody's playing it.
I walk into McDonald's. I'm already m c search, but
I'm not like putting out records yet. I'd go int McDonald's.
This girl I was kicking it with from Hempstead goes, oh,
look it's Ricky d And I turned around and I
go yeah, and she's like you, I just hurt your

(15:10):
record on Kiss Your Ricky Deep. And this big ass
dude he's like, fucking white boy, ain't slick Redy. I
was so mesmerized by what they did in school and again,
Jake Cool was my locker mate and then like just
before he graduates high school, he puts out and Pumking

(15:37):
and the All Stars comes out and he's on that,
and I'm like, wait, he was part of that. Yeah, yeah,
he was on that, right, Yeah, yeah, Jake cools on that. Yeah,
all of that. So I'm like, so I'm like, okay,
do you have so much flavor? Yeah? So I'm like
all of a sudden, I'm like, Okay, I know what
I'm gonna do with my life, be a rapper. Like
that's it's really that where So when I was in

(16:01):
middle school, like literally one day, like my friend Bill
comes into school is Bill and the next day he's
Lord doing the qua mathematics understanding the law of cycle.
You know what I'm saying, I'm yoke And I'm like
what what And He's like, yo, I became a five
percent of God, Like I can't even speak to you
a devil now, and like yeah, the Dada da And

(16:21):
I'm like, why am I devil? Like you're a white man?
You know you either done? Like the white man is
a devil when you don't know this comference of the
planet Earth and you don't know that to Dada and
you don't have the once it tends And so I
was asking all these questions, and they were like, yo,
why do you keep searching for the answers man? Why
do you keep searching for the answers? Devil? You keep
searching for the answers devil can't knocking on the right,
and they just so that's where they called me search.

(16:42):
So now so now I'm tagging search s E A, R,
C H. Like that was my name right that way?
That also that is that a myth point? Because I
heard you like a five percent I practiced. I practiced
the one that tends like I knew my one that
tends like I knew nothing a black and black man
like sixty like I had a stand at three sixty,

(17:06):
like like yo dollars, like every white man in his
room just put his head down. I don't even know
what is going on? Is the original woke? This is
the original state woke? Right, So yeah, we it was
really woken. So anyway, so on my sixteenth birthday, my home,

(17:29):
my best friend Kevin O'More, he got me a name
played Bell Buckle. And the thing was the name no, no, no,
the five the five letter name played Bell Buckle was
like thirty five dollars. But the sixth letter one was
like fifty dollars plus the letters were five dollars each,
so he got the five one, but he tried to
squeeze in the A because he tried to save himself

(17:52):
twenty dollars for my sixteenth birthday. What was your friend's name? Kevin?
I'm Moore, okay, Kevin Love Love Kevin Love and if
popped out, so I just said, you know what, I'm
just gonna keep it scr c H. And that's how
I spelled the name. Did I disappoint you, lazy man,
search man? I'm just mind blown. I am most blessed

(18:15):
white Jewish man in the history of hip hop. Let's
be very clear. Let's be very clear. Like I tell
that people all the time, Like when people even meet me,
Like my partner Matthews behind me and we're doing an
app called to Dude Together, Like I tell Matthew all
the time, I'm like, you don't understand. Like I would
not be standing next to you, Matthew. We wouldn't be
doing a dude if hip hop didn't save my life,

(18:37):
Like I would be selling shoes at fucking Macy's like
I would, I'd be shoveling dirt. Like everything I learned business, acumen, marketing, promotion, music,
love of culture, like everything came from hip hop, you know.
I mean I loved being a Jew and I loved
my culture, but there was no way being a Jew
was gonna get me to make rap records, you know

(18:59):
with and go onto a oublic enemy. It just wasn't
gonna happen. So it like it gave me my life.
So like everything that I surround myself with even now
is based on hip hop principles. How old were you
when you were just telling that story, Uh, in nineteen
seventy nine or eight? No, No, that was like five.
Well yeah, but I heard Lotti Dotti, so that that

(19:23):
was just a routine they did. There was one of
the crew routines. It was like four years old. But
I even got out so search like being a white
dude in a culture, and which I mean with the
exception of Authur Baker, I mean, when I first heard
the Beasts in eighty five with this party is getting rough,

(19:45):
there was no question that we all thought they reported
no thought forget the inside sleeve of license to ill
back when he did parties getting rough in the BEASTI
group like you just fested man, I was like, I
thought they were Puerto Rican because it just never occurred
to me that white dudes could have flavor. So you

(20:07):
know what I mean, flavor the swag of my generation.
So that said, I mean, were you a walking novelty
to every black person you met? Because even Cute Tip,
when he described how he first met you with Greg Nice,
he was like, Yo, I've never seen no books it
like this in my life. Like he described he had
watermelon at the Latin Quarter, search watermelon. He described the

(20:29):
moment where he first heard a big dad of King's raw.
We're like, it was you, Greg Nice nighte uh in
him and King pulls up in the limo and plays
raw and like, but he was just like when he
met you for the first time, He's like the most
incredible thing, Like he just never saw a white dude
with flavor, and so like, how did you navigate not

(20:53):
being a caricature so to speak? Like Chappelle always says, like,
always be scared of the white guy in the black
back because you know, telling what he did to get there.
So what was it like just between eighty one and
so really between eighty one and eighty five, I was

(21:14):
really very quiet and very shy because with the exception
of a white rapper, the first white rapper named Vanilla
b a k A. Lord Scotch a k A Kyo
Blake Latham, there were no white rappers. And Blake had
the most flavor I've ever seen in my life. Like
he was wearing creased Lee's with like dark black wallabies

(21:35):
and had a loose sight cane with a latigra and
like cazals, and like he was from Brooklyn, and I
was like, whatever you're doing, I want to match what
you're doing, like because I don't have that flavor. In
Far Rockaway, I was real humble, like I was just
writing to myself, you know what I'm saying, And like
I would like go in the lunch room and I
would like I would see a cipher go on and
I'd be like, you know, you never rhynd in those

(22:00):
I never never, never rhymed at school every yeah, because
I was wondering how long you actually get into this circle?
Never got into the circle. I never never had the
balls to step into that circle, like never was going
to happen. Like I was way overclassed. Shout out to
teenagers with no balls man, the Jewish brother a k

(22:26):
A lunch room, a k A small testicles. Um, So
that was never gonna happen. So I figured, like, okay,
so I've absorbed all of these mcs that are in
my school, so like when I leave school, like I
can really like step up and do some damage because
I've learned from all these mcs that are around me.

(22:46):
So I had gone to music and art on a voice.
On voice, I was singing Italian opera, and like my
thought was, I would go to school because I couldn't
afford to go to Yeshiva, and I would be either
a rabbi or a enter and I would learn how
to sing in music and art, and then I would
go to Yeshiva and get a get a scholarship. And
I didn't. I wound up getting a scholarship to the St.

(23:09):
Louis School of Music at George Washington University for year
scholarship free rod and I had to make a decision
signing day right and the weekend before, I tell my
mom like, yeah, I'm not going to St. Louis. Ain't
shift for me and St. Louis. I want to be
a rapper, And she said what do you mean you're
gonna wrap gifts as sears? Like, what's a rapper? We'll
appreciate this, she said, vash Nis the rapper Like vash Nish.

(23:32):
I'm like, Mom, there's this culture called hip hop, and
you know there's a music called rap and the guys
who do it are m season. I want to be
a rap. She says to what's your plan? And I said,
I just told you my plan. I'm gonna be a rapper.
She said, no, no, no, no. If you're gonna give
away four years of college, I need you to have
a plan, like I need you to figure it out,
Like you can't just say you're gonna be a rapper.
And the thing that I had going for me is

(23:53):
my mother was a child star in the Bush Belt
back in the thirties and thirty five, and she had
to leave that too when the depress should happened to
like become a dental technician and help put food on
the table. So she always felt like she couldn't fulfill
her career. What's so, I'm sorry, that's exactly right. There's

(24:14):
so it's cuts. It's all in the catskills. So Kutcher's
brown like it was all these different hotels in the
Catskills was belt. This is the craziest thing because my
dad did in the Catskills doing all those Yeah, so
that was called the Borsch Belt. So young like Jewish
artists would go perform and they would do like Voodeville

(24:37):
and they would sing. And my mom was one of
those sing sing. Yeah, she had an amazing voice. And
she's like, you know, put a plan together, and let
me see the plan. But you have to tell St.
Louis School of Music on Monday that you're going to college.
And if you're not, I want to know the plan.
So I spent all Friday, Saturday and Sunday like writing

(24:58):
this plan, like well, like to I gotta find a producer,
and I gotta find a manager, and I gotta make
a demo and I gotta get in the studio and
I gotta and so I'm going through this whole list
all weekend, like I didn't leave my basement, Like all weekend,
I'm just going through this list. Hold this list out.
I gotta hit the clubs and no, no, And she
wanted to know how much time it was gonna take
me to do this, and I said three and a

(25:19):
half years and three and a half years, I'm gonna
have a record contract. And she said, I'll tell you what.
I'll support you. Keep a part time job, pay for
the insurance and the guests in your car, but keep
at least a part time job or a job. I'll
pay for your demo, I'll pay for your stage clothes.
I'll pay for it. I'll support you. But you have
two choices at the end of three and a half years.
You go back to school and get out my house,

(25:41):
or you get a job and get out of my house.
But either way you get to get out of house.
An Yeah, it was different. It was different. Welcome if
you're man services when your and your mind, dude, because

(26:05):
my dad was the opposite I put it. I didn't
tell my dad. Dad have been finding about the roots
until second I had a deal like it took a
record review of do you want more? To be like?
Someone showed me this today? You want to was playing
What's going on? Yeah, Dad, I got her record deal

(26:28):
and signed to Defen Records and Wendy Goldstein. He didn't
believe me or approved till the things fall apart. That
was when he finally got it. Wait, you see let
you and you an option give a full to a
forty thousand dollar a year school George Washington University in

(26:49):
their St. Louis School of Music, their specialty program for
Voice instrumental You and your mom was your father? My
father was around. So my father was a kind of
guy like I would go to him a go, Dad, man,
I'm you know, I don't know if I should do this,
and you go, so don't do it. But like my dad,
like I really wanted to do so do it. I'm like,
I don't know. Well, don't ask me. Then either do

(27:10):
it or don't do it. Yes, no, I don't know.
There's your three answers. What do you want from? So
my dad really was involved in, like, you know, this
career thing. He was just like, so do it. I'm
still mind bloom Like, well, my mom I think would help. Well,
your dad was a musician. When you gave her this plan,
give this three page plan and after three and a

(27:31):
half years, you either go back to school and get
out of my house or you get a job and
get out of my house. But either way, you get
out my house. On my birthday, twenty one May six,
I signed my deal to deaf jam three years at
three years three years. And the funny thing was the
car that lasted me that whole time. And I'll tell
you about that car between me and Pete because we
wrote most of the Cactus album in that car. Because

(27:53):
it was called the think Tank. Because it had no radio,
all you could do is thinking it so we could
just literally right rhymes like not even she was dead,
just dead. We would just think. That's we called it
the think tank. Like we drove it all over the place.
It was in nineteen of the lore and it was
just like a think tank. So I signed. So I
signed def JAM. I get a fifteen thousand dollar advance

(28:16):
right to sign a def JAM. I go to my mom.
I showed the con it was like, and we had
a beg for that money. We had a beg for it.
So my mom gives me two letters. One letter says
how proud she is of me and that I won't
really realize what I just accomplished until I have children

(28:38):
of my own, and that the real work and the
real testament is to how long I ran no streets
because I random streets for three three years. I know
we'll go to that, but for three years, I treated
my house like a hotel, like I literally was there
at a ship, shower and shave, and I was in
the streets six days a week, every club, Brooklyn, Queen's

(28:59):
Long Island, stan Onland, anywhere there was a cipher, I
was there. I was there like it was not even
a question. I was everywhere. I was ever. Like my
friends like to call me the forest Gump of hip hop,
because from five to nine nine, anything that happened in
the Five Boroughs that was historic, I was there. It's
period period. I was just there. Like go through it

(29:20):
and we will. But I just want to just tell
you this once quick story because the Jews in the
room will appreciate it. Yes, my mother gives me this
letter telling me how PROUDY is of me, but that
the real work starts when I signed the contract, like
all the work was nothing. Now now that I really
have to do the work, you gotta keep it right.
And the second letter was a bill electric rent clothing

(29:47):
than nine thirty six and you wanted to know how
I was gonna pay it. And that was three years,
so I said, Mom, I said I only got fifteen thousand.
I'll give you five thousand now. And the rest of it,
I'll give you my ask cap royalties, which for all
the those who don't know, is when your record plays
on the radio, you make money. So for about ten

(30:09):
years after, I would get phone calls at home and go, Michael,
did you know your record Step into the Am played
in Israel four times this month made that dollar thirty one?
And in Germany? And did you know that if your
record plays on w any W you make more money
than if it plays on Kiss at Famine. So anyway,
ten years later, in seven or she sent me a

(30:32):
letter that said paid in full, that like my ask
covered covered the debt. So people always say one or
two things either laugh at that or go, damn, your
mom is fucked up. No, I don't feel bad now
because my dad did the same ship to me. He

(30:52):
kind of yeah, he was like I didn't tell him
about our events. So one day I just came on
with all these new clothes, like we went overboard, like
we we pulled ourselves to death, like we just came
all these new clothes. He's like, where you get all
these new clothes from? And I was like, uh, well, yeah,

(31:13):
we got it the record deal and uh huh, what
was that and then he was just like, all right,
I want Wow. I gave him tim Rex like that
just it is what it is. It was a little different, guess.

(31:33):
So anyway, so between so basically after I left high school,
I basically became a beast. Like I basically became a beast.
So what happened was I just focus, focus, focus on
getting a record deal. See that's weird now that I
know the back story. I guess in your mind there's
a backwards clock. Yes, I can't be that's exactly right. Now.

(31:55):
I'm just thinking, like wow, because every the thing is
you are the common denominator to every hip hop folklore
story I've ever heard of Classic New York clubs. Oh yeah,
I remember searching No No No, or or as concert
but oh yeah, I remember cool White Boy No No No.
But in my head, I was just like, oh well,
search was just like you know, socialite search, Like he's

(32:16):
just everywhere. But now I know you he gets your deal. No,
it's definitely. It was definitely. The clock was ticking. And
so that weekend, what do you like the day she
hands you tell my um my guidance counselor. I go
back to school Monday and say, yo, I'm not going
to school and he's like, whatever, be And then you know,

(32:39):
and I graduate, and um, I just become a beast
and I have a meeting, Like a meeting gets set
up for me at Profile Records with their head of
marketing named Steve plot Nicki and Steve plot Nikki his
fame real name, yes, his claim to fame was he
created the Adidas deal with Leore for run DMC. Like

(33:01):
he was a big marketing guy and he did retailer
marketing for Profile. And I got a meeting with him
and I thought this is this is it? Like one meeting,
I'm signed done and he tells me I need to
make a demo and I said great, and he said
bring it back when you make a demo. Great, And
I left that place. I left Profile, which was on
Broadway across from n y U, and I literally called

(33:24):
my mom collect and said, oh, I just gotta deal.
I'm on signed the Profile Records and I get on
the Long Island Railroad and there's these bad chicks from
Valley Stream that I've been kicking it too for a
minute and they're all like in the train and they're
coming from the city and They're all giggly, and I'm like,
I'm feeling myself because I'm like, yo, I just gotta
deal with Profile records. I met Steve Plott Nicky I'm

(33:44):
I'm in, and they're like, we didn't even know you. Run.
So I started rhyming off top of my head about
all these bad chicks and what they look like and
what they got on. And I'm talking about the the
conductor gets my ticket. I'm beefing about why the D
l I R Is always late and and all these
people coming around me because I'm roming real loud because
I'm feeling myself. I'm like, yo, you know, and it's bad.

(34:06):
Dominican ship comes up to me because I talked to
you a second. I was like, you can talk to
me as long as you want, as long as you want.
She's like, you know, my name is Laydys and my
boyfriend is Grandmas of Tony D from the Bad Boys,
and they had the biggest expected gadget, like that was
the record and forget about that over Romika was even bigger.

(34:27):
Oh Tony D. Right, So I'm like, yo, set up
a meeting. She's like, yeah, but I gotta be your manager.
I'm like, whatever, be like, it's all good. So she
gives me his car and she goes, you know, give
me your phone number. I'll call you in a couple
of weeks and I'll set up a meeting. She scratches
out his number, but his name is there on the card,

(34:49):
Anthony Dick and an address. So I'm like, I ain't
waiting two weeks for this, bitch, Like, what are you
talking about? Go home? At call four one one, I said, Hey,
can I get the number for Anthony Dick on Seacrest
Boulevard and Brooklyn, New York. And they're like, yes, seven
one eight bla blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah,
call him. Hello, grand wads of Tony d M C search.
I just met Lloyd as she told me, um, you

(35:09):
could sign me. He's like, man, I'm look, man, I
can't really talk right now. We're going to like Toronto
for two weeks on tour. Call me in two weeks.
I'm like, okay, click next day, next day, next, I'm like,
two weeks to the day, ring, Oh, how is Toronto?
Tony is searching again? You know when can I come? Oh? Man,
we're going on tour, like, yeah, I'm gonna be going
for like a month. Tick tick tick tick tick tick

(35:30):
tick tick. Thirty days later, Tony what up? Man in Search?
I did this for six months. For six months he
would tell me not to call. Wait a month. I
would wait a month. I called. Finally, it's April. It's
April nineteen eighty six. It's pouring rain, it's a it's
the middle of the night. I'm like, you know what,
it's not thirty a night. You know whatever. I'm just
gonna tryumph Hello Tony Man at Search. He's like, you

(35:53):
know what, man, just come over. I'm like what even.
He's like, I got some people over, but just come over, am.
I car was acting funny and I didn't think I
would get it all the way out there, so I
called my best friend. I'm I was driving, so I
called my man. I'm like, Billy, you gotta take me
out to Seagate. He's like, yeah, it's pouring rain. I'm like, bro,
this is my shot, Like, you gotta take me out

(36:14):
to Sea Gate. Like I gotta go. He drives me
out and where he was in Corney Island. If people
know Seagate, if you don't this basically, it's like the
end of Corney Island is a dead end. And then
there's these fences that are like ten ft high, these
fences where like all the Italian mafioso stay over there.
And Tony was in his brownstone right across from the project,

(36:34):
and there's these bad cars, like in his parking lot
is an eighty five Jaguar XJ sitting on Dayton's and
there's like a ninety eight Oldsmobile like Crispy, and there's
a Cadillac. And I'm like, so, I'm telling my man Billy, like, yo,
let's go inside. And he's like, I ain't going in there, man,
you can go in there by yourself. I'm like, where
are you ain't gonna come in with me. He's like, nah,
you go in, go in and knock on the door.

(36:55):
Tony opens the door. Yeah, I'm search whatever. I'm like, no, no, no,
to me, I'm search. He's like, all right, come on in.
So is this really thin hallway? And it was dark
and it opened up to this living room and sitting
on the couch was Lord trou from the Eternal Force.
So I knew from high school, uh, grand Master D

(37:17):
from Houdini jam Master J right, and they're just sitting
there looking at me, and Tony goes, let's go into basement.
And this is dark, like musty basement. And I'm going
down these steps and I'm like, oh my god, like
three of the biggest DJs in the world are about
to jump me. This is like. So we go down

(37:39):
into this this musty, damp basement and he clicks this
lightness this little lamp and it's a little makeshift studio
within a KI and a little studio right there, and
he sits me down and Tony sits over me, and
literally it was like jam Master J d t ru
and he says rack, and I went, so you think

(37:59):
you rock well, got a snowball chance in hell to
castra emc search because I will ring your bell and
soon you would tell them my record is gonna sell
because when I finished rapping, home boys are gonna yelle.
You will be so excited that my five has been
at night and then all the party people have now
been sighted. Say if you're my sight, keep rocking all
night and let the power the party go far and bright.
My name is em and I run my ass off
like two minutes straight, spitting by and I said, and

(38:24):
it's dead silences. And I'm like, there's dead silence, and
jam massaid, Jay Lean's back and he crosses his arms
and he puts his hands over his mouth and he goes,
fuck if white boys start rhynning like this, we're over. Yo.

(38:46):
I need you to come on tour with me with
Davy DMX and I need you to open with Davy
DMX and me and Albany and Graham Asked's like, no, no, no,
no no. I need you to write for Houdini. We
got this new album coming out. We need you to write.
And Tony He's like, no, that's my artist. It's my artist.
Gotta talk to me. And I had no paperwork none.
So I'm like so like, I'm like, I made it.

(39:06):
And Tony hands me a contract and I signed it. Wait,
power of attorney, power of signature, all of my royalties,
all of my publishing everything. I signed everything over because
I was just open. I signed everything. I'm I tell
my mom, I got a fair deal. Like She's like,

(39:27):
we should have a lawyer look at it. I'm like, no,
he would never jerk me. Like took everything and I'm
just open, like I'm in the house with the bad Boys.
They're talking about doing a new record. I'm helping in
writing for the Glamor Girls who had to answer records
to Overonica, And I'm meeting Sweet Tea, and I'm meeting
this one and that one, and I'm going into the
studio with Houdini, and I'm writing be Yourself, and I'm

(39:48):
writing all these other records and be yourself. You might
find yourself by yourself Jackson, but Millie Jackson. So I'm
doing all this and I'm like, and I'm not making
a penny. I'm just excited, Like I'm just excited. I'm
going on tour and I'm doing shows. He had a
contract just there, yeah, just there yet exactly right, it's

(40:15):
exactly right. So I signed over everything and and I'm
doing so we signed a warlock. I put out Melissa,
which was a terrible record, which is the first single
I cannot find. I've scoured the earth. I'll give you one.
I'll give you one. Thank you you will. I don't

(40:36):
want you or ever play it, but I'll give you one.
It's terrible, slick ricks bald cousin, like, I am fucking horrendous,
like because that's what I was around for four years,
so I'm thinking I'm going out a rod and it
was terrible. It's terrible record. And I'll tell you how

(40:58):
to tell you an AMC search search and no, it's
just me. It was Warlock Records. I was signed to
Adam Levy and Morris Leevy. Alright, wow, So I'm not

(41:19):
making a lot of money, you know with my record
deal and I'm doing like little shows, but I'm making
a lot of your deal with what was your like
you getting advanced or anything. Nothing. It all went to
Tony D. So how are you living? So I'm basically
I'm working. I'm working two jobs. I'm I'm driving Yeshiva
kids from Queens to far Rockaway to go to Eshiva.

(41:41):
I bet they were paying. That was sugar Steve. Alright,
I'm just saying it sounds like Chess Records in reverse.
What happened? What happened? Almost famous? I laughed, Yo, um yeah,

(42:04):
So yeah, I was getting paid decent money and I
was delivering pizza and chicken. So like that's what I
was doing. When ever have ever baked chicken? And so

(42:28):
I'm like, I'm making but but when I was really
making money is my man understanding from Red Firm projects.
He was seeing that. I was like Ramen, but like
he hated my record, Like, I gotta tell you this story.
This is and I know certain DJ is gonna hate
me for this, but I love him and he's an
o G but it is what it is. So nobody

(42:48):
would play the record except for Bill Blast and Vandy C.
They would play the record and The Awesome Too would
play the record. But I was like, yo, we gotta
get this record on Kiss FM, and they gotta get
it on Kiss FM, and Red Alert had a theory.
It was very simple. If he liked the record, he
would play it. If it's not, he'd say that's not
hot and he wouldn't play it. So my record was
not hot. He was not playing it. But I heard

(43:09):
we could get to Chuck chill Out if we paid him.
So we go to see Chuck before he goes on
the air, and I'm in awe because it's Chuck Chill
Out and it's and I see Tony hand him the
Melissa record with two hundred dollars attached to the record.
Instead of seeing the logo, I see the bills, and
Chuck looks down at me. And says, the only reason

(43:31):
I'm playing this piece of ship is because you paid me,
and I said thank you. I stuck my hand, said
thank you, thank you very much. I appreciate it. He
played that record for thirty six seconds and took the
ship off, not even the first It was horrific. No,
it wasn't. No record was horrifice. Don't the show right now,

(43:59):
don't you search please story record. I love this is
only because I love you and you've done so much
for my family. Even look, I mean it's this song
is thirty one years old. This is education. It's just

(44:22):
we promised not to laugh. No, you know, if you
don't laugh, I'll be I'll be pissed. This is laugh
because you think he's horrible. It's that see, but I'm
one of them silver lining motherfucker's be like, well, I
like the break beat. So he alright, ladies and gentlemen,
this is Melissa on Warlock Records. I'm ce search Grand Wizards,
Tony d Yeah right here in quest. I cannot wait. Fuck,

(44:52):
that's the B side. Oh he is not considered. Is
his name is the Blizzard? You know that's the kind
of fun. Yeah? No, that was that was not the again,

(45:18):
No not no, it did. But here's the thing. Yes
it did. But because I had made such a stench
in the city, right, only a few people looked at
the B side, and one of the people that did
was a guy named Daddyo from Set to Side. So
what Daddy O would do is say, Yo, search, I
want you to come on toward us with stet and
then step would do a little bit of their show

(45:38):
and a little bit of their performance, and Daddy I
would come out and goes, Yo, I brought my son
with me. He's gonna come out and perform, and they
would throw on the record and I would come out.
Due to running man, the crowd would go crazy. I'm like,
oh my god, here's like crazy, right. So that helped
like build my rep to get to my second single.
But between eighty five and like eighties seven, what really

(45:59):
kind of got my rep out is that my man
understanding from Red fern knew that I was dope off
the top of my head like and I would battle anybody.
So what he would do is he would set up
these battles in the Five Boroughs, like vander Meer projects
in Brooklyn, and he would set up something in Eastgate
and like all of this, and he'd be like, Yo,
my man search want to battle, and they'd be like, yo,

(46:19):
put up a hunted and you know these drug dealers
be like that, you know, fucking my man is dope,
Like yeah, my man whatever is dope, Like he's dope
in the projects. He's like, yeah, my man will crush him.
And then they would see me come off the subway
like yeah that search, and I'm having the glasses and
the mullet and they're like ship to hunted and I

(46:40):
would I would get any ciphers and somebody would beat
box and I would always let the dude go first,
and then I would pick upon his verse in front
of him and spit his rhymes back at him and
tell him how whack he was because he said something
and he really should have said this when he meant this,
and da da da da da da da bake them,
bake them like and then everywhere. So one time in

(47:02):
the Bronx, I'm at this battle in my man's DJ
and and it was like some serious money. I think
it was like to seventy five or something. This dude
was putting up. So we're battling and I'm like it's
just it's this Latin kid, like he's half Latin, half black,
and I'm like, I just went in. I don't know why.
I think I was like smoking weed or like I
just went in and like I started talking about how
his fucking his sister and like and I just remember

(47:23):
and this and this is the one thing. And then
this is the one thing. I said, I remember this,
and I said, just realize, A blanquito just smoked you up.
Don't say a word. This motherfucker's looking at me like, man,
I fucking killed you. I don't even sup so um.

(47:48):
At the end of the party, my man is asking
me to break down his set. I got this giant
amp in my hand, you know, like from like the
size of car trunk. Here pop and I see the
amp and the amp cracks in half, and I look
up and it's sup Puerto Rican kid and he's aiming
a thirty eight in me. So I'm like, Brooklyn Dip
dropped the ship. He takes two more shots to dip
out run through the subway. It's just it's just the

(48:11):
words spread like the social network news that like you
can't battle this kid, because you're gonna want to kill
him some more project battles. First of all, Okay, that's
how I was making my money. Like I would make
like two three a weekend because my man would split
and there was nothing to show up at Marcy Project. Nothing, nothing, nothing.

(48:32):
And it never turned into you never to put your
hands on anybody. Even as gentrified as Brooklyn is now,
I don't even go into a bodega without clearing it first.
I just you know what I have Some friends are
real deep. And it's funny because even like in the
Latin Quarter, like fifty the original fifty cent and a

(48:54):
rock and the Decepticons, and they always looked out for me,
Like I could go to Gates and Green and like
have no problem because they'd be like, you know, no,
non with Search, that's fit these men like don't sunk
with them, don't sunk with them. And and queens like
Tommy Mickens and like all those kids fat Cat, like
all those dudes that got locked up for like a
hundred years for like those were my boys. Like those
were like just my dudes. And they'd be like, yo, Search,

(49:16):
come over here, kick a little kick, a little rum
about this this this kid over here, so freestyle on
was your redemption after Melissa. Not only my redemption, but
it's how I got my deal at Death Champ because
Dave funkin Climb May he Rest in Peace used to
run the battle for World supremacy for new music Seminar
and I had a second single that came out on

(49:37):
a label that my mother started with Tony Dee called
Idler's Records. Your mom ownslers, Well, she didn't own it.
She put up the money too for the first single,
which was hey boy, your mother from not knowing what
rep was investing in. Yeah, wait a minute, based on yeah,
hey bood, hey boy, that was you? Yeah that was Meyo.

(50:00):
Lady b played that so much. That was you, that
was me? And you know why she played it. You
know why she played it? Why we did a party
for her at a high school in Philly. Me and
Tony d went up there and the crowd started buying
me the second they saw me. I mean, I'm not
talking about little Booze right, And I go to Tony,

(50:25):
I'll go why they buying me? And we already had
this plan because it happened before. So you always wanted
in this situation being underestimated, always so and you know
who has the tape of this is DJ cash Money
or either Tatter cash Money. One of them have the
tape of They have the tape of it. So um,
I said, you know why they buying me? And he
said it's because you're white. And I went, get the

(50:48):
funk out of here. If anyone I'll see a white
boy on say somebody say why, well the fuck up?
Why say why, motherfucker? I'll show you. Can I play

(51:11):
Hey Boy? Yes? Absolutely? Yo? I love that record? Yo, Yo,
I've never heard this. This is the first time. So
this is this is my high school experiences, like listen
to Lady B Street Beat at like eleven thirty at
night on Power ninety nine and they used to always
run this joint. Yo. Ifc search Hey Boys record, I

(51:33):
cannot believe that. And the second record we put out
with Jimbrowski the Jungle Brothers, that's why I know idlers. Yes,
that's okay, that's a mind blowing right now. Alright, alright,
this is question of the supreme. This is Hey Boy
search at a party Stone Coole Inland. Although in my
hand man, I was killing dosing on the wall, just

(51:54):
having a ball went out and where I had this
call that goes up, keep me, keep people, people people,
Well little started out and this one showing now these
words follow me wherever I go, from front and behind.
It blows my mind. Whoever this girl is, Mash's being

(52:16):
uncon in the US, says or even overseas, the damn
girls from the Fishies. Just to follow me she wants.
She tords like a win, your go, send all that
I can do about it. When the boy to turn
around and face his voice cold, invisible, unstoppable and jo
sich I noticed, wool, why don't you trying to recruit?
I can't Twinny she got me keep dude like this,

(52:40):
there's no feeling like you know, the feeling, the feeling
that I'll have when we finally discover that E c. M.
Sample of Crooklin Crookline Kids, like the relief of like
sure I finally found out what the sample was. There's
like six what I thought were Philly records that I've
been searching for. I ever knew that was in search.

(53:02):
I loved that record. It was like the Whop Classic.
It was That's exactly what I was thinking about when
I made that record, was like I want to do
a record that I could oop to. You could do
the how old you when you made that? I was
seven and mind you like we had sold like seventy

(53:25):
five thousand copies of that single. I never saw a
penny um, you know, because Tony d owned everything. So
I go to funking client. He had seen me in
the Latin Quarter and he says, Yo, you know you
should be a part of this battle. I know you
run off the top of your head and I'm like, yeah, cool,
Like I'll show up. Yeah, no problem. You know there
was a battle. There was like sixty four embases. It
was crazy and a battle. This dude Ronan Row from BMOC,

(53:51):
he was MC first. Yeah, he was signed to Select Records.
On the record he was a group called Big Men
on Campus BMOC that was signed by Faith Newman h
who has started her career single out. Yes, what year
was it? I think I had one of those records.
So anyway, I slayed them like it was embarrassing, Like

(54:12):
I slayed them like I just just talked now battles, Okay, now,
so battles that the battles in New Music Seminar were
really cool because they threw on beats that produces made,
so all these producers would just throw on beats or
where we would prompt to like records that were hot,
and we were just and it was the countdown clock
to ninety seconds and then you did what you did

(54:32):
and you were done. So real time battles or was
it real time stuff in your head? No? Real time
Like I was off the top of the head, off
the head, so everything was important for me. It was
I mean, the dudes I was battling wrote and that
was my That was my claim to fame was that
whatever they wrote, I'd be like, Yo, why do you
say that when you should have said it like this

(54:53):
and da da da da do now you get me
pissed because blah blah blah blah blah and you should
have done Oh. I would rip people upon art. So
the finals um were the next day at Webster Hall.
It's top sixteen and um, the first battle I have
is with this guy Raven T from the Mighty Dismasters
love that record, and he's baking people with mama jokes,

(55:16):
like he's doing like hip hop mama jokes. So this
is the only time I wrote in that whole battle,
I'm like, I gotta come up with some mama jokes
like to like slam them. And I set a couple
of them in rhyme for him, and they were terrible
and I lost my flow and I froze, and the
crowd starts buying me, and I'm getting nervous, and then
out of his pocket he pulls out a piece of

(55:38):
paper to get ready, and I went oh, and I
started pointing at the paper. I'm like, yo, that's how
you say your ryms off a piece of paper. You know.
Somebody out of the crowd, come get me a waiter
so I could serve him a whole new play to
Rhunds before he's done three to one. My job's done.
Slay him, slay him. You can put where are you this?

(56:01):
But you're you're naming well, wait, wasn't Crazy down with
the crew that did Veronica? No? You sure you're talking
about Craig g from Dropping Signs, Craig Yes from the
Bad Boys like Inspected gadget back. I thought, okay, okay, okay,
it was Mr mac Um. I can't remember, but no,

(56:21):
it wasn't craigy. Okay, You're you're just naming like a
slew of like New York m season crews that were
on local labels that were just killing it had impact
for like one single would never never got promise like
this Master's small time hus like if we if the
Roots ever do their eventual cover album one day, like

(56:44):
Obscure Ship, like that will be my solo joint. I
think small time hustlers like the last ryme I'm a
bite because I know no one don't know this ship
it was. It was just such a humorous Hello Larryous
song and what happened I don't know. There was a
bottom rhythm radicals, like like after I beat him, I

(57:06):
never saw him again. So I come off stage and
Mr Magic is behind me and he's skied up and
he's like, yo, white boy, give me the mic. I'm like, no,
I'm about to go on. He's like, motherfucker, don't you
know who I am? I missed the Magic. I'm like,
I don't give a funk who you are right now,
I'm about to go on stage, and they called me
and the dude douses me with a thing of water.

(57:29):
So it was rhed Alert was a judge. It was
the dude from UTFO who I'm also indeed who went
to rehab not no, not educated, and somebody George Shinejosa
from RAPS they were they were the judges. And I
was battling this dude, Bengo, who was signed to Rap Syndicate,

(57:51):
and I'm like, you know what, I'm not even gonna
worry about this dude. I said, you'll put the beat on.
I gotta tell you all the story. And then I
went on a diet tribe about how Mr mad Joke
was really missed the tragic and w BLS was really
w balfest because you couldn't get records played unless you
put money on the table, and dude snorts coke and
I'm going on and I'm like, you know, I would
never go to BLFST. I'd rather listen to Red Alert

(58:13):
all day, just going yeah. And I'm you didn't feel
no sort of because back then, wouldn't you get bum
rustlers some ship? Not not because I had all my
people with me. So again and I'm like, educated rap,
I'm glad you're feeling better, and like you know, like
I just pointing, every real time real time rap crowd

(58:33):
goes crazy, Bengo does this whole other verse about saving
South Africa or something water, So let us speak, so

(58:55):
he does that thing. So then I just take my
name off the um. There was this big thing and
thel cause and I said, my name is Search. I'm
about unity, not black and white, don't want to have
a hip hop community. And I'm just like going off
the top of my head and you're like in the
crowd goes crazy crazy, and I go backstage and they're
about to do the voting and I feel somebody rubbing

(59:15):
my shoulders and I turned around. It's Russell and he says,
if anybody asks you, telling me you signed a deaf jam. Wow,
And my mother and my father win the audience. Wait
what club? It was the web Websta Hall New Music
Seminar No No, no, that new Music Seminar Battle. So

(59:38):
they came with me and I said, Mom, I think
I just got a record deal, like got it out,
it up. But there were two problems to that. Problem
Number one was Tony D. Problem Number two was coordinating
everything with Pete and getting that together because he thought
I was a soloist. Right, So now I have a
real attorney, go through the Tony D contract And there's

(01:00:00):
a bubble already in the street, like, oh, Search a
sign and the deaf Jam Search a Sound and deaf Jam.
So in the contract, my lawyer finds it a clause
that says, if you want release at the fourth year
of the contract, you can at thirty days send a
letter of release to a PO Box office in Brooklyn.
That I knew Tony nevercheck because that's why he sent
all his bills. It was a really weird clause. It

(01:00:23):
was an escape clause. I have no idea, Like I said,
I think it was a boiler play contract. And he
didn't even really read it. So before I started negotiating
with Russell, we sent them the exit clause. I had
to wait six months and I sent him the exit
clause and I sent it to that PO Box office
and I sent it and I was out of the contract.
But when I did that, I also when I did that,

(01:00:49):
I also relinquished all the rights to Jimbrowski, all the
rights to Hey Boy. And that next month Read Alert
did that nine thousand dollar deal with the Jungle Brothers
to Warner Brothers. So I lost all that money to
that deal because I was a partner and idler, so
I had to give I had to walk away from that.
So they it was so um I'm sorry that done

(01:01:13):
by the forces, done by the forces of nature. So
did you always think you were going to get the money?
And the first day, no, I knew. My lawyer told
me if he if they ever went and sold the Masters,
that I would never get the money because this basically
relinquished me from all rights. So I knew it was
just like it was a it was a wash. So
I was like freedom for a wash. You know. I

(01:01:33):
looked at my career the first half of my career
as these are the dudes I will pay two get
to blank. You know. I always thought that in the
twenties you learn um. At the thirties you churn, so
you sift out, and then the forties you earn, and

(01:01:54):
then and then the fifties on your return so you
pay back. So that's how like I kind of always
looked at my life and I always kind of because
of that plan, I always said, Okay, I'm gonna be
here when I'm thirty, I'm gonna be here when I'm forty,
I'm gonna be here when I'm fifty. Like I always
kind of try to map out my life and try
to follow it, and of course it didn't always. I

(01:02:14):
thought it would, but it was close. Like I said, Okay,
I'm gonna be an executive producer of a record in
four and then you know, NAS came out and I'm
gonna sign a production deal with Warner Brothers in ninety six,
and then I did nonfiction. So re beat this mantro
one more time. You learned in their turn, So you
sit down. I was just making sure no one burned

(01:02:39):
or anything, right, right, No, no learning learning. There's there's
burning and learning. Like you have to sometimes give up
things to learn. Things you also have to lose to learn.
Those are valuable lessons. Like look, when the Roots got signed,
you were like it was a demo of you guys
playing overseas. Like it was like you know what I'm saying,
Like when you did you deal with when the Goldstein,

(01:03:00):
there was no even knowledge of the Roots in the US,
you know what I'm saying. So like whatever deal you made,
that was, that was your learning, that was your learning curve.
And if it wasn't for those records, if it wasn't
for those first two albums, you would not have established
yourself the way you did. And then the rest of
it was churning, so sifting through people, and thank goodness,

(01:03:22):
you found Richard in your life. May rest in peace.
And then you had all of that and now is
your earning period and you deserve that, and then you
will return that and you you know, so I'm saying, like,
that's just I'm not returning the money. It's not about me.
He just means returned to the world to make sure
you heard search what he said. But then you will

(01:03:43):
return it. We talked about this a lot on this show.
So I just have a lot of people being here
is returning so anyway, but to get back. So the
def Jam deal kind of comes through, and Lire, who's
now managing Rush Thanks, still thinks I'm a soloist. So
I'm doing records on the side with Sam sever I'm

(01:04:05):
doing a demo as a soloist because that's you know,
Dante Ross is now involved because he's you know, my
boy signed a Rush and like, you know, it's a
whole different paradigm shift of who I'm dealing with. Like
lar knew me because he'd seen me perform with jam
Master J, and jam Master J introduced me to you know,
it was just like this whole connection of this insulated
people that I grew up around. Over the last three

(01:04:27):
years in hip hop, I want to I want to
ask you about ever Man talking about him because he
was just a guy, always thought, never got the credit.
You're absolutely right, You're absolutely right. Sam started his career
doing beats with man Tronics, UM all the early sleeping
back stuff, even like um Hungry for Your Love and
then Sam Hanson and David Hungry for Your Love. That

(01:04:50):
was Sam did the percussion, He did the beats. So wait,
what was he doing for man Tronics? He was doing
the Beats Crew. Yeah, him and him and wait a minute,

(01:05:11):
so beats with Sam, Sam and Mantronics together. Yeah, so
all of that stuff, Hungry for You Love, Joyce, Sam's
colonel and Carla Abrams all of that, and then he
did the beats for Tougher than Leather and that's how
he got connected into Russia and Deaf Champ and all
of that. Yeah. So Dante and Sam we're best friends.

(01:05:34):
He used to do graffiti together. Samm used to write
sever and Dante Rossi used to write system. So they
used to do graffiti all the time. And Dante was like, Yo,
you gotta a couple, man, Sam. Sam will work on
your demo for Deaf Champ. Right, So I'm I'm doing
these records and I'm gonna keep it one hunting with you,
Like I was happy with them because I would love
being in Chung King and I love being a studio

(01:05:55):
with Sam. And we would go to Sam's he I
mean he lived right around the corner and canal, Like
we would be in his apartment, he'd have his sp'd
have a z a Kai. We would demo, demo, demo,
and then we go into studio and then spend twelve
fifteen hours in the studio like sandwich is smoked weed
and stay up all night and like being a studio
and Kevin Reynolds, who was our engineer at the time,

(01:06:15):
like it was just it was just fun. But there
was something that was like missing for me, Like and
I know you feel this and fun. I know you
can relate to this. The Jews can't, but I know
you can't. You know when you make a record and
there's that thing in the back of your neck that's
like not right, suspect, Like I loved it when I
said it, played it back skeptical suspect right right, and

(01:06:40):
nobody will notice, but they always do they always notice, like,
that's how I felt about my demo. I'm like a
skeptical little suspect topic, but as maybe I'm just being overcritical.
And sure enough, Leor and Russell decide that the guy
who created their deal at def Jam at Columbia got

(01:07:02):
named Steve Robowski, who went to A and M and
was the president at A m M. He was looking
for two soloists. There was a kid in Houston named Raheim,
and there was a kid in New York named mc search,
and he was going to sign one of us. So
Steve Robowski is being lined up like Lears, like, Yo,
you gotta sign this this kid Search, He's incredible. So
he's flying out to see me. And that same night,

(01:07:23):
Dante call Sam and says, Yo, there's this dude, a
friend of mine who I played ball with. He's stuck
in the studio. Clark Kent was supposed to meet him.
He fronted on him, he's got all this money lined
into doing this demo, Like can you, Sam, can you
go over there and help him? And Sam goes to
chunking and it turned out to be his kid named
Pete Nice, and Pete Nice was working on this record

(01:07:47):
that he had the sample from some alternative band okay,
And the next day in the morning, Sam calls me.
He's like, yo, dude, you need to come meet this dude.
I'm like who. He's like, Pete nice. I'm like, I
know Pete, Like he's managed by Lamombo Carson, Like I
know Pete. Yeah. So I go to Sam's house and

(01:08:07):
as Pete and they play. They They're like, yo, I
got the samples from this Dan depeche Mode. Sam's like, yo,
I freaked the sample. I added the drums and I
hear brown brown brown, bam brown brown brown brown brown,
bram brown brown, don't damn, don't damn down, down't do down,
don't damn hard as hard as Chinese arithmetic. Avant got

(01:08:29):
a not a heretic stick out a right around picking
in my cranium. Pete nice elementary like uranium. And I'm
just like, oh ship, I'm like, yo, I got a verse.
We go back to the lab. So where's it? Was?
No original? We go back to the lab. We go
to chun King. I dropped my verse literally in three takes.

(01:08:50):
Then Pete does another verse, and I do another verse,
and in the same breath we do triple stage Darkness,
and we do one other record like in a matter
of hours. It's like Anna range marriage, Like no, no, no,
you know each other's last names? No, we didn't. We
didn't know. We know we should. Look, I'm gonna keep
it like one hunted. Like I used to like laugh
at Pete when he used to try to get in

(01:09:12):
the Latin quarter, Like he'd be like, your search took
me up. And I'm like okay, pal and and now
here he is, and he's like kind of a competitor
of mine on rush and I'm like, uh, you know,
And I'm like, all right, let's just form a group.
And Sam's like I'm gonna be the DJ and we'll
be three the hard way. So prior to the recording,

(01:09:32):
you went Pete, y'all knew of each other, but didn't
know each other, didn't know each other. So wait, can
I ask something? Sure, you remember the first time you
ever heard terminator X peak? Yeah? Yeah, And it's like right,
because of Pete's tough exterior, Like was he really even

(01:09:52):
a geek? No, it wasn't that. He just had a
lot of like because he played balls. He's very sean pinished,
he's very Sean Pish. That's a very very good way
to say he had a lot of Yeah, he had
a lot of swag one okay um or a lot
of flavor. Okay, a lot of flavor. With him, I
felt you, I felt you had the flavor. And he
was this really tough straight man. What transpired was I

(01:10:14):
was like the street kid and he was like cleaned
up and he had like the esoteric versus. But I
always connected to the street to it, you know what
I'm saying, Like, and that's kind of how we were
always perceived. Like he was in a suit and high
and in a cane, and I was always like yeah.
So Steve Robowski comes to Chunk King and me, Sam
and Peter sitting there, and this other dude that used

(01:10:37):
to do A and R who wound up doing stuff
for like Slayer, and guy named Scott Konig is with
Steve and he's like, yoh, so search tell me about yourself,
And I'm like, yeah, but it's not searching anymore. It's
this group called three the Hard Way. Check it out
and we play them words of wisdom, thumping, play him
triple stage darkness, dumping, play him propaty environment dump him.

(01:10:58):
He's like, I don't get the group thing. It's too
much like the Beasties. And I'm like, wait, Beasties, Like
I said, we got credibility in the street. He's like,
let me think about it. So I'm like, okay, well,
you know, we go think about it. An hour later
we're in the studio. An hour later, John King, who

(01:11:18):
owns hun King, goes Leor just cut all your funding.
You're all fucking kicked out of the session. You're all,
you're all done, get out, get out now. I go
to Rush. Leor is fuming like, Yo, you had a
fucking deal, you fucking cock sucker. You had a fucking deal.
I gave you a fucking deal. You fucked up the
deal with these two funck hards. I don't even know

(01:11:40):
who the funk they are. And I'm like, wait, he's
not signed the Rush funck No, I don't know him,
you fucking asshole, right, Because Dante and Sam had made
it seem like Pete was also signed a rush. He wasn't.
He wasn't signed a Rush. He wasn't, so I'll not forget.

(01:12:04):
My mom was like, well I heard about this thing
called hype man can like peep be your hype man
and you'll be em C Search and it'll be featuring
Pete Nice and you'll you know, we're a group. That's
that's just the way it is. And basically to kick
this to the curb. And it wasn'tuntil that battle that
Russell came back and was like, yo, if anybody asks,

(01:12:24):
you signed the Deaf cham And that's how the circle
kind of enveloped itself. So yeah, so when when Russ
came back, that was after correct they had kicked on.
If you're just joining us, uh, we're chatting with MC
search and his many many, many, many many tales, the

(01:12:47):
Great Adventures of MC get the Road. Yeah, we didn't
even get to the first single. Alright, you kind of
you kind of passed a period that every guest that's
been on this show has gone through. You gotta give
us a Latin quarters story. I have thousands. Give us
your best three. Number one for me of all time

(01:13:11):
was Scotla Rockney, Rest in Peace, k R S and
Mellie mel Yes, so have you heard this story? So
push ups you Tip has told this story that he
was there. Okay, all right, so that's a legendary one.
What was Male's role in the Latin Quarter. Mel's role

(01:13:32):
was he was no, not a heckler. He was like
the elder statesman. You know, there was this this strange
paradigm around eight seven that was more like there was
the Old Guard. So you had Fearless Forward problems of
the world Today, and you had Mel and Grandmaster Flash,

(01:13:56):
and then you had you know, you had Tela Rock,
and you had all these great and you know, Treacherous
Three and you had all of that, and then they
were still coming to the Latin Quarter. Yeah, they were
all like busy Bee for Shore. Busy Bee would do
his routines. A bombed one of the first hip hop
club to come to Manhattan. Yes, and was that a
big deal? Yes, it was a huge deal. It started

(01:14:18):
with Celebrity Tuesdays. The Awesome Too would have a showcase
called Celebrity Tuesdays. They had the Real like their show
was like a big show in New York, their radio show.
So they would have like celebrities come out and in
Paradise and Lamomba got together and started promoting Thursday, Friday
and Saturday at the Latin Quarter. And basically what would
happen is all the yards would come out like they

(01:14:39):
would do after after hours party, I mean after work party,
and then we would go in, you know what I mean,
So the yardies like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then Fat
Raoul would be DJ. Ro will be the house DJ,
and then we would come in and then it would
be the hip hop night, you know what I mean?
And how how are the were the owners with this?
It was just just like the owners were was like Timberland,

(01:15:00):
like okay, blacks here, so we might as well just
just fucking accepted. Yeah, no, Mike Goldberg. It was weird
because Michaeldberg, who is still alive and still lives in
the city and own the Latin Quarter from the thirties,
and it's funny. You want to hear some crazy my
mother performed at the Latin Quarter. Um, So he always

(01:15:22):
knew that there was his vibe and his energy around
this music, and his only concern was to keep people
safe and to make money, like that's all he cared about,
Like he didn't want anybody getting hurt and he just
wanted to get paid like that was no. But every night,
like somebody got hurt, like every night. It was like ridiculous.
So you would go there knowing because the thing I

(01:15:44):
can't understand is the fact that everyone that gives the
Latin quarter of story really is sort of bypassing the
risk factor involved. There was incredible risk, so but you
didn't really you still felt like, oh, the energy was incredible,
the injury was incredible, and that yo. There were so
many great records, so many artists like Fresh Force, like

(01:16:04):
they had a great record, She's a Skeezer, and then
all of a sudden they become kid in Play and
I'm like, wow, that's that's like I remember Fresh Force.
And then I would see this group that did a
craziest record Corny called I Like Cherries because Cherry's tastes
better and Grapes of Sour and then a year Letter
there the audio too, and they do you know Top

(01:16:24):
Villain and you know Supernatural mcs. All of a sudden
they become Salt and Pepper like it was all of
this amalgamate. Like I saw Public Enemy performed to their
first show and get booed the funk off stage. Can
you described that? Because no one has the definitive? Okay,
so they def jam booked like an album released party

(01:16:44):
for Public Enemy. So yes, it was a Thursday night right,
kind of half empty, a lot of industry types whatever,
a lot of magazine people checking them out, and then
the typical crowd that was in there, like you know,
fifty and Decepticons and violators and like all the you know,
five Borough kids and they come on with my nine

(01:17:05):
geos mobile and all you hear is like boo and
Flavors dancing around and oh boo. I mean it was horrific. Really,
it sounded terrible. And they did one song and what
people they did, You're gonna get your us Yeah no,
and literally Russell was like pulling him off stage. And
what people don't realize is the Latin quarter stage, even

(01:17:25):
though it's ten feet high, it was maybe only six
ft wide, so you really didn't have a lot of movements.
So the s ones are trying to move around and
it was just it was just it was not good.
And then a year later really and it became literally
like that became the song, like what was the song
that you had the rebel without a pause. I'm gonna

(01:17:48):
Pip Pip Pip Pip Pip. That was to the club
that was tuck your chain be For about three months
that record came on. Then you just danced your asshole
touches Shane and no, you just danced your ass off,
and that record became the biggest record in New York
and the hypest record in New York. And month four

(01:18:09):
it was tuck your chain and get off the dance floor.
And the kids who would New Jack's to Latin Quarter,
they got robbed because all the other kids, I owe
you dances and all that. We were already on the side.
We were just watching the girls violated, like they would
just be like Pip bad boyar rings off, Pip Pip. Yeah,

(01:18:29):
that became. That became the record that like you just
that you knew there was also ultramagnetic mcs up here
we go off the off the floor, off the floor,
really Pip Pip. So when you hear these gunshots not
the sun, that's not gunshots, black black Pip. You got

(01:18:59):
so many Disney moments. See in my mind, Rubble without
a pause, was like like you were too young? How
were you eight? So I mean you might did you
have to down economics like I had? I had bum
Rusher show my aunt at the time. I guess she
was like no, no, no, no, it wasn't hurt. My

(01:19:19):
aunt was straight like black yuppie Phillis time in like,
she was straight straight, So yeah, she was that. But
my aunt she had I guess it was a guy
she was daying at the time. He had the Public
Enemy tape and she had it in her She had
a little box she would take the tea school. She

(01:19:40):
was a school teacher, and so she had a little
radio that she would take to school with her. And
I'm shattered in the trunk and there was a copy
of Nation Millions in the in the radio, and I
just played and I was like, what the fund is this?
And not just played it over and over and over.
Nation the Millions was really a year after like, but
people did a rewind because as soon as Rebel came

(01:20:02):
out and Nations came out, all of a sudden, Yo
comes out and I mean they come back to it
and it's like this is crap, right, this is how
do we sleep on this? So it was really one
of these things where the Latin Quarter was really about
the true energy of New York. So it was about
music and broke. It was literally the Information super Highway

(01:20:25):
because the Five boroughs win that building. Even Connecticut even
some kids from like Rhode Island every once in a while,
kids from Philly and d C. Like you know what
I mean. Like it was so if you ripped on
that stage, within two days, everybody knew you would get
a call from me, like your aunty and like Allentown
and like my aunt Caro will call me and I

(01:20:45):
heard you had a good show at the Latin Quarter
the other night, my student Blaise Sleep. I mean, it
was like the information super Highway. So it was really
like the center the nucleus of New York music for
four years was the Latin Quarter and were off shoots,
like you know, you had the rooftop on a hundred
and fifty fifth like that was cool, and you had

(01:21:05):
um Union Square and that was cool, you know, and
you had little things like that, Like Square was the club.
Union Square was a yeah right, No, Union Square had
had a really cool vibe. Clark Kent was the DJ.
The first Fresh Prince Jazz Jeff, Yeah that was that
was the first time I ever saw Jazz Jeff do

(01:21:28):
the Bluebird scratch. Was that at Union Square. In fact,
I have a signed Fresh Prince Jazz Jeff record from
Pop Art. Really yeah, before they signed to JIB and
all of that um so there were definitely pockets, but
then there were underground pockets. So you had the World

(01:21:50):
downtown and like Iced Tea and Ron Syndicate, like that's
where Iced Tea got his start in New York with
six in the morning like that that popped off in
the world like that was, and Russell would be a
the world and then you'd go at four o'clock in
the morning to save the robot across the street and
then save the Robot was like underground reggae and like
really dark, deep dark like Wrap records like j v

(01:22:10):
C for Strong Island. You would hear it there like
you know what I mean. Or you would go uptown
to the sns on and Star Child would be in
there and he'd be playing like Unreleased Ship, you know
what I mean. And you'll be eating breakfast at like
eleven o'clock in the morning after party and all night
and do shooting dice and like you'd leave it like
twelve noon, you know what I'm saying, like, and you

(01:22:31):
would be And that was the rotation. That was the
rotation four years like that was the rotation eleven eleven,
two or ten to one at the Latin Quarter, one
to two at Union Square, two to three thirty at
the rooftop, three thirty to eight thirty in the morning
at SNS, you go get breakfast and then you'd head home. Okay,

(01:22:52):
So I'm gonna take this time. I see how cocaine
got popular. I'm gonna take this time. Just segue into
what I feel is your greatest story of all time.
Because I was shocked that he gave a performance at

(01:23:13):
the Latin Quarter. But now that I think about it,
or at least according to uh, at least according to Dante.
Now am I to believe that Hammer performed at the
Latin Quarter and it wasn't too neavel? Or I get
the film that Hammer did the new Music seminar and

(01:23:34):
it didn't go over. Well, that's but it wasn't the
Latin Quarter. Was It wasn't Latin Quarter. It was um,
I don't I don't remember. It wasn't Lambing Quarter. But
here's the thing with Hammer, so and I'll get to
that too. So I used to go on the road.
I was basically Houdini's valet. I used to like iron
their clothes and like I used to have like a

(01:23:54):
list of girls that like in San Francisco, this girl
can't meet this girl and Grandmaster has this girl over here,
and ecstasy and like you know, like I used to
you know all of that. So they take me out
to a celebrity basketball game and there's this new rapper
in Oakland name Hammer who's doing this thing right, and
all my boys are telling me, yo, you should battle him.
He thinks he can dance, like you should battle him.

(01:24:15):
You should battle him, right. So he pulls up in
his white Cadillac and I'm like, yo, man, let's battle.
He's like, who the fuck is how you say? Hello? Yeah,
that's exactly how Like I'm just balls in New Yorker,
Like fuck you. I don't care where you from. I'm
from New York and what. So I'm like, yo, I
heard you could dances. Battle and he's like fuck you.

(01:24:35):
I'm like, fuck me, b come on, come out to call.
Let's battle, right. He takes off. I'm like, oh, that
kid's a pussy like whatever, right, So we segue into
like the new music seminar. He gets booed like it's
not gonna happen for him. Yea da da da da,
and then he does that whole Yo, get New York,

(01:24:57):
and then that's a dish to run DMC, which you'd
just don't do. It's sac religious, it's just you don't especially, No,
they didn't do. You just thought New York was New York,
wasn't trying to hear them, and that was a particular
disc to run DMC. Well, that's that's that's what we
all felt. We all felt that way, whether that the

(01:25:18):
video was like the extras that He's distant are dressed
like exactly right. But they didn't dis in per se. No,
they didn't say he never said f run DMC and
sc master J. It just happened to be that they
were in Adidas suits with hats on, looking real so
on on a quiminized chunky fire when they played that

(01:25:41):
source clip at the end with you know, we just
want to say the South got something to say. I
kind of had. I kind of got Big Boy to
admit a little bit that they felt some sort of
way about all East Coast rappers because we really weren't
jealing with outcasts all that much in the beginning. No,
I mean, we're cool ship now, but like in the beginning,
they had the chip on their shoulders because they just

(01:26:01):
assumed that anyone who was at the source awards booing
them as they got best new artists was like a
part of it. So obviously you are with there, so
you know, right, so you know this is like a
general blanket thing. So now just and for me for
jam Master J to be the one in that room
in that basement in c gate in to co sign

(01:26:24):
me and tell me like yo, meet us at the
bus outside of Hollis av and like get on the
bus with Ronny Ray and all of us and open
with Davy DMX and do what you do and him
giving me like great advice on how to ron and
ron flowing and hanging out with Joey and d m
C and just and being a part of that. Like
my biggest mistake is I loved hip hop so much

(01:26:45):
I felt I had to protect it at all costs,
Like I really thought it was my job savior. No,
not the safe. I felt like I was the night
at the round table who was the defender of the
culture because had given me so much, like it had
given me the streets of given me so much, the
Quarter gave me so much, Like there were so many

(01:27:06):
times that fifty was like your search back out. We
were about to stick this whole place up, like get out,
Like these dudes were looking out for me. So it's
like this motherfucker from Oakland the funk you're doing your whack.
Your ship is whack. Period. It wasn't like, you know,
f you as a human being, but it was like,
you're whack. Emc You're whack. I think you're the first

(01:27:26):
person I ever heard call out someone's credibility. I mean
in terms of like LLL and coolmo d going into
each other or like you yeah, like to me yeah.
And then like when I saw the gas Face video,
I was like, wow, they're they're really defending hard, Like yeah,
it was Austin jam Master J with the hammer and

(01:27:48):
we had the two big MC looking like grab the
hammer and we kicked him in his ass and like
you know, so the real the beef really came about
a line on Cactus. Um we basically but here's the
thing and again, like people who knew us, we would
never did somebody's mom Yeah, because We're album album was

(01:28:08):
much better than turn his Mother Out. Cactus turned how
his mother out? Is like that's a known fact, Like
your ship is whack compared to the cactus. Nobody's checking
for your ship. Years later, my ship is still bumping,
and that's unfortunately, but that's how I feel today as
almost a fifty year old man, Like I'm still like, Yo,
your ship is whack, you know what I mean. So

(01:28:29):
I took it on my shoulder like I was like,
I have to protect this, like I have to. So
we're getting ready to come out to l A and um,
we're doing a whole week of promotion like that cactus
is doing real well. We're doing a property the Environment,
jeep giveaway, a K day like this, all this cool ship.
I've never been to l A before. So I got
Chantel with me. He got his girl rock saying Daddy

(01:28:52):
Rich got his girl money. We're like, we're all all excited.
We're getting to JFK. We're getting ready to go on
a plane and there's a cole that comes into Carmen
Ashurst Watson, who is at then the president of Deaf
Cham and we believe it was Louis Barrel Hamma's brother
and he says, YO is third base still coming to
l A. And she goes yeah, why he goes good,
They're dead and hangs up the phone. So she's like,

(01:29:15):
that's kind of weird. Like, so she calls Russell and like, Russell,
I think there might be a problem with third base,
Like I think they might be in danger. So Russell
does what he does. He reaches out to the person
who's closest to the street, which is Eric B and
he calls Eric Barrier and he's like, yo, Eric, can
you find out if there's something going on about third
base in l A. Within twenty minutes he gets calls

(01:29:39):
Russell back. He's like, yeah, there's a hit. There's a
hit out on third base. So Russell says to Eric,
like Eric, Eric, Well, Eric is always like everything has
always been connected. So me and Eric were tight like
and and then something happened. I don't know, Oh no,
I know it happened. Let me tell the story real quick.
I'm signed to Rush. Third Base album is about to

(01:30:01):
come out. We got about three or four songs to do.
Leorc calls me out of the blue and says, hey,
we got a problem with rock Him. He's got writer's block.
I need you to write a song for rock Him.
And I'm like, and just so you know, rock Him
is my favorite mc of all time and I ain't
no joke to me, bar None is the perfect rap
record ever made, just period. So I was like honored.

(01:30:24):
I was like flattered, Like you're gonna ask me like
a white devil to God. I'm gonna write to God
him see a verse. Yeah, I'm gonna write him. I'm
gonna write a beast. So me and Pete come to
my parents house and we're like, what would what would
he say? What would? So I get into rock him mode.
I'm thinking about, like you know, paid in full, and

(01:30:47):
I'm thinking about all of this, and all of a sudden,
I write ready in the intro, cue the searchlight. Eric's
to the center stage, the first mike, protecting the voice
with this mike. Then I'm coughing, you ain't my I'm
snuffing the word of rock camp stands truth and no
panking man verse man you freeze a black mannequin could
be to dwell a point of stepping on the trick,

(01:31:10):
has a tune smack. He gave me the cueue, so
I'm gonna put a shut up with Jim's through. So
now I want to frequent and That's how I'm hearing
rock Him's voice in my head and I'm hearing him saying,
now I want to freaque. So I'll embarked sparking mission
posse the way past dog Park. There's no standard. I'll
play the five. Oh you don't stop moving until rock
him say so to keep trop hoping shooting out to

(01:31:31):
playing me and there be a keeping stepping to the
A M right the whole ship in fifteen minutes. So
I write the whole record in thirty minutes. I go
next day to lie Or He's like, yo, I'm gonna
call Eric, and I'm amped. I'm excited. And when Eric
picks up the phone and li Or goes ed, I

(01:31:53):
had search right a verse to rock him. I hear silent,
and I get shook, and then I go, so, um, Eric,
this is the record I wrote. Call step into the
am click and then Denise at the front desk goes leor.

(01:32:17):
Eric b is online too. He wants to talk to
you by yourself. So I'm shook. Now I'm really shook,
like I don't know what I just did. Like I
don't know what I just did. All I was trying
to do is help, Like it's all I was trying
to do. Because yeah, so I'm told by Simone, who

(01:32:39):
at the time was the assistant for Russell and Leorleor
doesn't want you to move until he tells you stay
here and wait. That's all I get a message for
and I signed that office for five hours. At six thirty,
Or called me upstairs and he goes, why didn't you
tell me you had beef with Eric B? I said,

(01:33:01):
I said, Or, I don't have beef with Eric B.
He's like, Eddic hates you. He doesn't know why he
would you would think about writing a record for Rock Kim.
He's fucking furious I almost lost them as a client
and block. He's going off on me, and I'm like, yo,
I said, Or, I had no idea, Like I didn't know,
Like I started telling him the wine Dance story. He's like, search,

(01:33:23):
fix yourself, get the funk out in my office. So
fast forward. Eric B finds out there is this hit
on third base, says who, No, I don't know what.
To this day, I still I don't know what, But
all I know is Eric's reaction and telling Rock Kim

(01:33:44):
that Rock Kim took two weeks to finish follow the Leader.
So I don't know if there's a connection there. But whatever,
like whatever happened between Eric and Ra, like Ra either
got over his right And I'm not saying I had
anything to do with it. I'm just saying, like, what
ever happened with Eric and his conversation with rock Kim,
rock Kim was motivated to finish Father the Leader. So

(01:34:06):
Eric never stepped to me like we never had a problem.
But I will tell you that I had a problem
with rock Kim the same week with Hammer, and I'll
tell that story too. So, um, Eric finds out there's
a hit and said Russell says to him, well, yo,
can you do something about it? And Eric says not,
let it happen and hangs up the phone right now,

(01:34:28):
let it happen. So Russell calls him back this and
again I'm hearing this second hand from Russell and Carmen,
you know. But they call him back and they say, well,
can you tell us who we need to talk to,
and Eric says, yeah, this guy my Conception. So they
call my Conception and they say, Mike, uh, we hear
there's a problem, you know with third base. He goes, yeah,

(01:34:48):
you know, we gotta take care of those kids. I'm
sorry it's just it's the way it is. And Russell's like,
I can't that can't happen. He's like, well, I'll tell
you what, because you're Russell Simmons, we'll just hurt them
from the waist down. Today still do television. What does
that even mean? It means that he was gonna put
us in. So Russell's like, that can't happen either. How

(01:35:11):
do we stop this whole thing? And my conception says, okay,
there's two ways that we can stop it. He goes,
because you know, there's like fifty tho members of the
crips that already know about the hit, and yat. He's like,
so there's two ways that this can happen. He said,
I'm having a hard time getting a distribution deal for
a record that I'm trying to do about Piece, Gang
Piece Cold War in the same gang. He's like, if

(01:35:32):
you can help me get distribution, irony right, if you
can help me get distribution, that would be a and
be tomorrow Night's the American Music Awards. I want to
sit next to Michael Jacks tomorrow night. So this is
you they have make So they called Donnie Einer and
Tommy Matola and they basically say, Yo, Donnie, I need
your tickets for the American Music Awards. Don't ask me why.

(01:35:54):
This is some street shit. I need your tickets. And
Donnie's like, I'm sitting next to Michael Jackson, like he's
gonna about to be the most celebrated artist of the decade.
He's like, you don't understand. We got a guy in
a wheelchair who's gonna need to sit next to Michael Jackson.
And sure enough, American Music I watched it last night.
He's sitting right next to right next to Michael Jackson.

(01:36:14):
So we're in the air like l A, yeah, not knowing,
not knowing shit, not knowing. And we touched down and
I got my girl and I'm hugging up with shi.
Oh my god. We're in l A. It's gonna be great, YadA.
We come out the gate and this is not back
this is pre nine level and you're smoking cigarettes in

(01:36:38):
the front end of the gate like you know nothing.
We come out the gate, it's all of us stuck together.
All of a sudden, ten dudes put a black tarp
over our head and they go move, move, Move, everybody
out of the way, Move, Move, move. Put your head down,
start base, put your head down. Everybody put your head
that move move move, And I'm bent over and can

(01:37:00):
see Pete next to me bent over and I look
over to him and I go, oh my god, we're
bigger than the beetles. And they move us into this
armor plated and keep your heads down, keep your heads down,
and I'm like, oh my god, killing it, We're killing it.

(01:37:21):
We're not yo. We are huge, Like I didn't know
heard this huge. Were fucking And they pull up into
the Hollywood Fresh and everything. Yeah, we all kind of
where we did? You know? Nobody explained ship? Did you
go to a baggage claimer? And you know they picked
up a ship everything, They had a guy pick it up.

(01:37:44):
Go to the Hollywood Highatt. They take us to the
top floor, I mean top floor where Little Richard had
his condo, right right there. We take it and the
whole floor is blocked off like no one. No one
can go into the room except for a little Richard.
Every other condo was locked off. Everybody's off. We have
security at the front, at the elevators. Everybody's being checked.

(01:38:04):
There's a list of people that are only allowed on
the floor. That's it like, And I'm like the Beatles,
I'm bigger than the and this is the album? Is
that how long the cacus I haven't been out at
this time? Two weeks? Two weeks The impact had on

(01:38:25):
music culture two weeks. I'm bigger than the Beatles. This
is the only way I would be treated like this,
either on Beatles or the right right. So I'm able
to sneak by security. I don't know how I did it,
but I get downstairs and outside the hotel is rock
Him and Supreme m And I'm like, oh my god,

(01:38:48):
rock him, Supreme, Spicy, Supreme. So I go up to
rock Him and I said, Row, are you here to
see me? And he said yeah, yeah, I said, I
said him, what, Well, He's like, Yo, I'm gonna take
you around this hotel and beat your ask real quick.

(01:39:08):
Gait what? I said, wait? And I said what? He said? Yeah? Man,
you know that's seeking a settlement, stunt, seeking a settlement.
I know that was about me, man. Eric told me
that ship was about me on that seven today am joint.
So I'm gonna come beat your ast real quick. I said,
rock him and my voice got real hot. I was like,
my favorite rubber all time. I would never do that's crazy.

(01:39:31):
I love you. You're my fucking man, like I would
never do you. Are you crazy? Like that's crazy? I
was talking about some bitches. Is looking at me like
stone faced, like and supreme and looked out for me
like a million times, and like all of a sudden,
he's like on the other side, man, uncle nel my
security guy. He grabs me. He's like, get inside, get

(01:39:52):
inside right now, and I'm like whatever. He takes me upstairs,
he takes me to my room. He explains the whole situation,
um that there's this hit and all of this, and
there's a lieutenant coming to stay with us named Pooky,
And I was like, this is some bullshit. And I'm
not an officer lieutenant, No, this guy a lieutenant and

(01:40:12):
I'm like this is bullshit. I'm like, yeo, man, I
want to go to the I heard about the Beverly Center,
like I want to take my girl can have the
funk out of here, Like this is bullshit. And they're like,
are you fucking kidding me? Like do you think this
is bullshit? All of this is? I'm like, yeah, that's
some bullshit. Listen, this is not real I'll fix all
of this. This is not real. So Pooky comes in

(01:40:33):
and Pooky is like the six three skinny dude, and
he got little welts like all on his arms. And
I'm like, yo, what's up with the mumps? He's like, hey, moms,
motherfucking he's a bullet. And I'm like okay. I was like,
well then, yo, take me to the Beverly Center. Then
you supposed to hold me down, hold me down, take
me to Beverly Center. And Uncle Mills like yo, and

(01:40:56):
and Pooki's like no, no, no, no, no, little homie
wants to go to Center Center. No problem, let's get
into them. So just to ask you, you didn't think
after hearing that story, you still didn't think it can't
be that. No New York attitude from you York. I'm

(01:41:24):
on some I'm on my New York ship for real,
Like fuck you, I'm from New York and everything else
is bullshit. I'm from New York. But you just understand
my mentality. I do understand it. And it wasn't really
It had to be hyped, it had to be exaggerated.
This was bullshit. It couldn't be real. There's no way
this is real. You used to go down mer Chantel

(01:41:45):
is with me. Now you're embarrassing me in front of wisdom.
I want to go to the Beverly Center, my wisdom,
my earth is with me. You are embarrassing in front
of my earth. Like I want to go to the
Beverly Center. So Pooki is like, no, no, no, not
a little home. You want to go technically Beverly Center.
No problem. So Uncle Mel and Pookie and me and

(01:42:06):
Chantell we go. I asked Pete, Pete, you want to go.
He's like, huh, I'm good here. Yeah, pussy pussy, this
ain't real. So we go to Beverly Center and for
those who are listening to, Beverly Center had this big
um circular area, like an elevated escalators that go down,
and it had this like balcony that goes all the

(01:42:28):
way around. So we came up to the balcony area
and there's this escalator that goes down and at the time,
it was like a foot locker and a little hang
out area. And Pooky's like, oh, you know, some people
just noticed you. Why don't you go down there. I'm like,
well fucking right, I'm going go down and see my fans.
I'm fucking I'm Elvis, so you look like MC search. Yeah,

(01:42:51):
Third Base Cutting Rock did it Crispy too? For the
for the album release party, Crispy Crispy go down a
little Mexican checks. Oh my god, if C Search, I
love you, blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm signing
some autographs. I'm feeling good about myself. I'm waving to
wifee YadA dadda. I see some guys coming this way.
I'm like, uh huhuh, guy's over here, coming this way.

(01:43:11):
I'm signing an autographs. All of a sudden, the dude
that's coming this way, he pulls the bandanna up across
his mouth, goes to get the ratchet, and then I
hear I hit this whistle, loud, loud, loud whistle, and
they all look up and Pooky does some gang signs.
I don't know what he was doing. He says this,
and the dude comes right into my face. He pulls

(01:43:33):
down to mask, goes, man, I love y'all motherfucking Third Base.
I was gonna smoke you, but you know I love
y'all motherfucker's yo yo, And I'll tell you right there.
It was the only time as it going. Man almost
Pete on myself and the other two dudes behind him
and like, yo, we're good. I'm like yeah. He's like, yeah,
this ship is over. It's ship is good. It's good.

(01:43:54):
And I was like, get me to the fucking hotel
right now. You can to the fucking hotel right now.
I was so scared. I don't even remember the ride
out of the Beverly Center back to the highest what
what was the do you know where the value was?
Fifty dollars? Yo, back in both of y'all just one, no,

(01:44:25):
for both of us. Anybody who got to us, it
had to be both of us dead, not injured, dead dead. Yeah.
So we go back to the hotel. I now tell
Pete it is real, and Pete's like yeah, motherfuck I yeah,
you didn't notice all of this ship, you know, but
I was slow, polish jewels slow and um. So now

(01:44:47):
we have to figure out all this strategic movement because
def Tam had put so much into this. This next
three days, like we're giving away Jeep on K Day,
we have this album released, party Fox five is doing
a special on us. You know, we have all these
moving parts that we can't just cancel, like God forbid
Russell and Leo should cancel something right, like, you know,
we have to do all of this. And Pooky assured

(01:45:09):
everybody that nothing would happen to us as long as
Pooky's with us on our side. If anybody saw them,
and he did this the gang side, we were good.
So we did not move out of the hotel. We
didn't move. The next morning, we had to do the
mac A Tech Greg Mack the Morning Show. Lisa Canning

(01:45:30):
was his newsperson. It was like the only twenty four
hour rap show in the country is the AM station.
It was on this little dirt mountain with an antenna
like it was in the middle of nowhere in a
little said k day and we went in and it
was the night after the American Music Awards. And I
didn't know anything about the American Music Awards. I just
I didn't know anything about the deal. I didn't know anything.

(01:45:52):
We just went to Greg Matten, you know, to do
the morning show and give away this g and UM.
So we sit down and Greg Max, Hey, what up
Third Base? How are you guys doing. I'm like, oh,
it's cool, I'm cool. Yeah, you know, yeaha da da
da da. Okay, good good. You know, it's great to
have you on. You know, this is Lisa Canning. Oh, Lisa,
what cracks? And mic Oh? You know, we got third

(01:46:15):
base in the house probably the environment jeep, We're gonna
give it away, but first we got a special guest
on the line No Live from the American Music Awards,
winning five awards last night, including Album of the Year
MC Hamma, hamma, what's up? Saying a lot of third base?
I didn't know this part and I look at Pete
and I said, this motherfucker just said us and Hamma goes, Hey, Greg,

(01:46:37):
you know, hey, homma, how are your brother nice? To yo? Hey? Congratulations?
What do you gotta say? Third base? Yeah? Man, you know,
I just know I don't understand why, you know, you
have to diss my mom on that record. And I'm
and I'm like, really, I'm heated. I'm heated. I was like, Yo,
ain't nobody dis your matriarchally idiot? Like nobody dissed that?

(01:46:59):
You know. It's like, and you know what you did?
Why don't you come get this ass whooping you punk?
You're a bitch? Hey, watch your language? No, and you're
a bitch. To Greg Mac, you're a punk bitch. Why yeah,
I said, why don't you go to the phone. See
who l A likes better third base of Hamma, that
punk bitch. He's like, hey, watch your mouth this leve Ratio.
I was like, Yo, I'll say a whole lot worse,
you bitch. All right, we're gonna go to the line, right,

(01:47:24):
gonna go to the lines. First caller, Oh, I love
third base, I love the Hammer's whack, Hamma gets the
gas face. Next cala, Oh, I love him a third basis.
Whack those wanna bees out of out of dout there whack.
Next cola, Oh, I love Hamma. Hamma's dope. You know,
third basis whack blah blah blah. Next call, I love
third base, Yo, searches dope, Peter's dope, Hamma's whack. I
don't know this whole thing about this and that yeada

(01:47:46):
data dot. We're gonna take more calls after this, and
you know, so then he starts taking more calls, and
I'm telling Mel, I'm like, yo, Mel, if you want
to fucking smoke this motherfucker, go ahead, man, I'll give
you ten thousand dollars. You put a bullet in this
motherfucker's head. And and he's like, Yo, you need to
fucking calm down. And I'm like, calm down, Like you
just set us up our first time in radio, Like

(01:48:08):
this is some good radio to you, ps, it was
good radio. But I'm like, you know, but I'm insulted,
and I'm I'm young, and I'm dumb, and I'm full
of coming. I'm like, yo, I'm gonna fucking smack somebody.
So he goes to the callers. He takes two or
three calls. It's between Hammer and YadA Da Da da,
And then he takes a live call caller, who's this

(01:48:29):
rolling sixty crip, we're coming for you. That time to go.
There we go. Mac didn't know what was going on.
He had no idea. We get in the van, we
start going down the dirt road. There's these two that
come this way. Lord six dudes come out with a

(01:48:50):
ors and ratchets and like, and Pooky jumps out, whistles,
does this some wild side like still third base if
he bunts? All right? He gave some signs and those

(01:49:10):
dudes get back in the car and they just back
out Wow. So now the real problem is that that
night we have to go to the Palace and perform,
and it's like everybody, the audience, no, no, no, there's
no way to stop it. There's no way to stop it.
There's like three thousand people in the palace and they've

(01:49:31):
been there since like six o'clock in uh in the afternoon.
So this is a logistical nightmare. As they say in
the tour business. Right, there were blue cars circling all
on Hollywood and Vine just blue cars, tons of blue cars,
tons of blue cars, and we can't figure this out.

(01:49:52):
Chance tell us crying, Our girls are crying like, oh
my god, you're gonna die. One person said, hey, let's
cancel it. Definitely not was no way to like Russell
Leo put our lives in jeopardy. They were not canceling
nothing because Pooky short and he got him the seats
and Yata data. So what Leor and Russell did was

(01:50:13):
sending their guy Big D, who used to be he
sent how do you know that from the It was
one of these documentaries that all right, so Big D
comes in and his job is to stay next to
my conception the whole time. Like his job is to
act like my conception security because he wants to make

(01:50:35):
sure that Mike's gonna keep his word, his word, his bond.
The next day he's doing the final recording. The same
day we're doing the Palace Hammers recording his verse for
Rooral in the same gang and my Conceptions there and
Big D is there. Hammer before he goes into the
and I got this from d Before he goes in,

(01:50:55):
he says to Mike, hey, can I talk to you
a second? And in you know, private He's like yeah,
but my security guy come with me. He's like yeah,
that's fine. They go into a room and Deed literally
said Hamma turned that, turned turned to Mike and said
why ain't they dead yet? And Mike said, yeah, that's
not gonna happen. But I'll tell you what, if anything

(01:51:16):
does happen to third Base, I'll kill your brother, your mother,
your father, your sister, your cousins. I'll come to Ugland
and wipe your whole fucking family out. Now getting a
fucking booth and do your verse what? And to this day,
me and my conception are like this to this day.
So Hamma goes does his verse and we're like, how

(01:51:37):
are we gonna get into our own party, and Uncle
Mel says, I got it. We're gonna dress them as
security guards. Wait, there's no way this is true, absolutely true, right,
So he says, we're gonna dress you up a security guard.
So we put on the c SC security jackets, kevlar,

(01:51:59):
I cover in my high top, fade with a Skully
pizza guy, and we got dark glasses and my and
my girls crying and like it's all upsetting and everybody's upset,
and we sneak into the venue and like they make
they make a comment like everybody who's wearing blue blue
jeans you gotta get out, and Pooky has loud now
like ten dudes with them, and they're like checking the audience.

(01:52:22):
And we're backstage for like two hours and Pookies like, yeah,
venues clean, nobody's here. Yachted out. How come Pooky just
didn't come out on stage first, and then signal I
don't know, I don't know, I don't know. It's like
the original Twitter, Pooky is Twitter. So we find out

(01:52:44):
it's all clear, it's all good. Girls come in and
w A is there. I take a picture. I gave
n w A, I gave easy. My third base gives
them the gas face hat. I well, the Oakland rate
I had. We're taking pictures with Dre and d O
C and day Las soul is there. LLL jumps on day.
It's as a free style, like have a great night,
great night, everything's peace, all done. And that's the mc

(01:53:08):
hammer story. And my conceptive still lives in Malibu, lives
in Malibu. He's still power lized. But you know he
lives in Malibu and still involved in the music business.
And if you and mc hammer are in the same
room today, so let me tell y'all a story that
you don't know that I saved just for a mirror.
I didn't even know there. So like the first time

(01:53:31):
I heard this story, it's stopped at my conceptually, I'm
sitting in the arty. I didn't know about great okay,
So I saved this just for you. So about two
years ago, I get a call from a producer friend
of mine who did a movie called Black Dynamite. My man, yeah, yeah, Scott,

(01:53:52):
Scott says, yo, I just heard you in Mosha Kasher
on the Champs. We want to do a movie on
the Hammer story. The only problem is we gotta get
hammered to say okay to it, and I'm like, okay,
I said cool. You know, He's like, are you gonna
be okay with that? And I said, let's take it
one step at the time, because I don't think Hammel

(01:54:12):
will ever say it's okay to make this the story.
And you know, because basically, and I didn't know this,
but I found out later that even the idea and
I forget what it's called, but even to commit murder,
the um oh yeah, conspiracy, conspiracy, there's no statute of limitations.
You go to jail for any conspiracy, and murder is

(01:54:35):
a five year sentence, regardless of it happened in eighty
nine and ninety six or yesterday. So it takes about
a year and they finally sit down with Hammer, and
it's two agents from c A A. Right, And I
get a call from Scott and you know, this is
a process has been taken a year. So I get
a call from Scott. He goes, yo, you're sitting down,

(01:54:58):
so yeah, what's up. He's like, I met with Hammer. Oh,
and I said really, I said, he said, yeah, Hammer
wants to do the movie. I will. Hammer has one

(01:55:19):
request that at the end of the movie. He's the
hero that his mom said he shouldn't do the hit,
and he didn't do the hit, and he's the hero
of the movie. And I said, you know what, fuck it,
it's Hollywood. It's all good. He's like, he's like, but
would you do press with him? I was like, hell no,
I'm not doing press with him. I don't want to
be five ft near him. He's like, wait a minute,

(01:55:40):
you know the red carpet. I said, fuck all that.
I said, you know, if I give him this note
him never seen him face to face, and I'll tell
you about the MTV re wraps the last one. I'll
tell you that story too. So never never right. So
we start going through the negotiations. We start talking to
and and the first person we go to a Seth Rogan,

(01:56:01):
and he's like, yo, I want to fucking do this movie,
like I want to do it, like no doubt, I
want to do it. But Hammer didn't know. I was
still telling the story. And it gets back to him.
I did the Champs right, and he hears the story
and he's like, oh, Fox Search. He can't let that
ship go fuck him, And the movie was dead. So
the closest I ever got to Hammer was the final
Yo MTV raps. I'm now senior Big, I'm Senior VP.

(01:56:26):
A wild pitch. I get a call from Ted DEMI
may he rest in peace, Like, Yo, we're doing the
final YO come through, Come through. And I was just
in some workship, like I wasn't even like stage dressed
or nothing like that. And I got like ten goons
with me, like I'm already with like nonfiction. So they're
just a bunch of goons and we come in and
for whatever reason, there was no metal detector and like

(01:56:47):
three my boys got they ratchets with them and like
we're just you know, but we're not thinking anything bad.
We're just like, you know, just coming from the street.
My boys were from Brooklyn. Whatever we do the cipher,
I do my little verse. Everybody does their little verse.
Ed Lover comes over and he goes, come on, man,
it's the last show and they're taping this. He goes, Yo,
it's the last show. Hammer's back there, Like, come on,
let's make peace, man, let's just the last Young TV wraps.

(01:57:09):
And I said, hammas here. I was like, who Well,
my boys pulled out the ratchets started going through the
crowd like looking for him. I ham a ditched. He
went down into his car and took off. What the
very last episode that they never aired that didn't make

(01:57:29):
the cut. That's the closest I've ever been to face
to face with him. Well, I guess if somebody threatens
your life and your family, you really it's kind of hard. Yeah,
you know, it's funny. So I've been in recovery for
five years, like eleven eleven is my anniversary. I've been
in recovery, and I'm I'm at the step I'm drinking
or drugs or drugs marijuana specifically, I was. It was

(01:57:51):
bad um and a lot of it was to know
a lot of pain that I was dealing with that
I just didn't want to face. And um, I'm coming
up to the eighth step, which is amends. And my
sponsor doesn't really understand my career, like you know, he
doesn't care about it. But I told him I have
this this amends I have to make with someone who
really wanted to do bodily harm to me. And he said,

(01:58:14):
they step talks about making amends with people unless it
will cause injury to them or others. He's like, so technically,
if you don't want to make amends, you don't have to.
You don't really have to. It's really up to you
if you think it will do damage to that person.
And I was like, I don't think it will damage
that person, but if he says something smart, I'm gonna

(01:58:35):
definitely knock him the funk out, you know what I'm saying. Like,
So it's like it's one of these things that I
battle with as a grown ass man even to this day,
like I'm forty nine years old, Like let it go,
you know what I mean? But then I think about
that day. I think about the black tarp, I think
about the guys with the masks. I think about going
into my own party as security. I think about Greg

(01:58:56):
Mac and it's all like yesterday. You know, it's all
like yesterday, And it's a part of me that's like, funk,
I gotta let it go sometimes, like when am I
going to let it go? Like when am I just
gonna let it go? So everything happens for a reason, right,
So this year, we were doing a TV show called
They Call Me Search. Uh. We're in the process of

(01:59:18):
shooting the pilot and getting the sizzled and getting ready
to shop it. And that's where I'm going to make
peace with it. That's where we're gonna do an episode
where I make peace with it. Just about your life
and the show is about my life and this is
you and hammer y'all want to do it? No, no, no,
I ain't got nothing to do with him. This is
my This is all my stories in a series television,

(01:59:40):
not even a document, thirty minute dramedy. If you're just
joining us, you are breathing a sigh. Really all right,
sques love Supreme. We're here with MC search search What

(02:00:00):
are you saying? I was asking about the cats? We
didn't even really we went straight to the hand. Um, yeah,
so I don't work. So so the record took us
a year to record, and it sat on the shelf
for two and a half years. Eight seven yep. We

(02:00:22):
worked on it in eighty seven and it didn't come
out to the November of nineteen eighty nine. So from
the time from when you were yall were at uh
you did the battle, rust comes it's like, hey, tell
them you're on def Jam. We signed. We signed six
months later than we worked on the album. So a
year and you'll signed as a duel. When was it?
When was it finished? End of nineteen eighty seven Early

(02:00:44):
night and Russell what the problem was? Russell and le
Or didn't think we had a hit on the on
the album. That was Russell's real big deal is like
we didn't have a hit. So when I wrote step
into the a M for Eric being rock Cam, I
was like, fuck it, this ship is dope. If he
if he's not gonna use it, Me and Peter gonna
use it. So I called Um. I called Dante. I

(02:01:06):
was like, Yo, Dante, can you hook us up with
like Eric Vietnam Saddler and Keith Chockley and those guys
like I want to go out to Hempstead, I want
to demo this song. And Um we did it in
about a day day or two. We did it with
them out there Vietnam, Keith Hank Did you watch them? Yeah?
Of course. Can you please describe to me watching the

(02:01:28):
bomb Squad? So Keith was really like I like to
call Keith the instigator. Keith would find the samples, Like
Keith was the guy who would like dig through the
samples and he was really the instigator. He'd be like, yo,
say that ram again, Like say that right, and then
they would and Vietnam would start putting the beats down right,

(02:01:50):
and then he'd be like, oh, I got the sample
and they had that back wall with like he was
like yeah. And then Keith would be like, oh wait wait,
I got this, I got this, I got this for that,
I got this for that, And then they would lay
it down and be like, all right, going to the
going to the booth, Pete, you start do your verse

(02:02:11):
first search you come in, Dott. And then we go
back and forth. And then we were like no, no, no, no, no,
let us do all verse like that. Oh okay, okay, okay,
we're gonna lay the beat down over here. You guys
go figure out your versus and and and it was
really like Vietnam's the instigator, and then Keith was the agitator.
He'd be like, yo, that should not and they would
go back and forth and Hank would literally was the

(02:02:33):
one who came in and did the final mixes. So
Hank would come in, he would tune everything, he would
hear everything, He listened to both speakers, he nodded yes,
and then he was out, you know what I'm saying.
Like he was like the orchestrator. It was like Puffy
I wouldn't say, well, I don't I've never seen Puffy
in the studio And actually, no, no, no, he's like
I know, they get said, all right, you don't do

(02:02:54):
no real like he doesn't do the work per se.
Like I felt that air Eric was the technology and
he was. And then Keith had the information that the records,
and Chuck did all the voice of stuff right and
and then and then Hank would kind of tune everything.
And Hank was the guy who would sit with the

(02:03:15):
mixed engineer and make sure the mix was tight and
everything was dope. Well, I mean, and it's funny and
the and the funny thing. I just gotta tell you
the side, Joe, because you know my family. So one
night we're in the studio and we're gonna take a break.
So we go to Irving Plaza, Me, Keith, Vietnam, Pete
Daddy Rich. We got Irving Plaza and at the time,

(02:03:36):
Keith was kicking some shorty right and he's going up
the stairs in front of us, and I go and
I go to give somebody a pound behind me, and
all of a sudden, I here, oh, oh stop it
stop and I go upstairs and Keith is getting pounded
like to the mid section by this little five too shorty.

(02:03:57):
She's just pounding him and he's doing the right thing.
He ain't hitting her, but he finally like gets her
off with him and YadA da da da, and I
look in at Chantel. That's how you meant. No, that's
not how I met Chantell. So we became friends, like
just through the club scene. And I always kind of
I called her Lefty. I was like, yeah, what up,

(02:04:18):
Lefty because she had that wicked left and she would
always see me like coming to clubs with all different
chicks and like got da da da da. And her
favorite record was Super Hope by b DP, so she
would always call me the super Hoo. She was like,
oh it goes Mr super Ho. So um, me and
Pete used to host a party at Irving Plaza UM

(02:04:40):
on Wednesday nights and she used to come and check
us out and YadA da da da, and she always
thought it was kind of whack as an MC. She
didn't really like me. So we had recorded we had
recorded Step into the a M. And we were just
finishing up the album and Um, I get an invitation
through Russell to Spike. Lee's do the right thing. Um
after party, right, So I get a pass and it's

(02:05:03):
for two people and um and it's the date was March.
Uh was like March and UM. I called Barbito, I
called my man. I called Cool Bob Love. I'm like, Bob,
come with me. He's like that. He's like, I'll meet
you down there. I was like, I you know, doors
open at six. What time you're gonna meet me. He's like,

(02:05:23):
I'll meet you there like seven. So I get down
there like five thirty, like a little early, right, and
the crowd is like so so on hip hop. You
know it's but it was an early party. Was it
was a rat party. It wasn't like a hip hop party.
Was a Spike throwing a party. DJ like Red Aler
was DJ and um and at the time Red Aler
was dating a girl named Darlene. And then there was

(02:05:44):
another girl that was Sabrina who was literally the first
superhead of hip hop. Like she was like she was
like that was that was and that was it was
a claim to fame. And I went to high school
with us, so like I kind of knew, like that
was her ship. And then there was another girl, and
there was another girl there with Chantelle. And what was
happening is my man, Big Darryl was doing the door

(02:06:06):
and he was just taking the girls in one at
a time because they didn't have passes, but he was
like hooking them up and letting them in. And I
was like, cool, you know, I'll just hang out and
kick it with y'all. And I had my walkman and
my cassette of my demo and the whole thing. And
then I didn't see Barbito, so I went to the
pay phone. He's like, yeah, man, I come in. I'm
not I'm not gonna beat him. So I come back

(02:06:27):
out and I was like, you know what, you guys
go in and when whoever's last, I can take him
in with me because I got a plus one. So
they all go in and Chantells the last one, and
I'm like, oh, you want to hear my demo? She's
like cool and like she was always cool with like
Q Tip and and Fife, and she was always cool
with everybody in the native tongue. So she had a
really good ear. So I was like, damn it, Chantell

(02:06:47):
likes this, like so she listens to and she goes
it's cool, and I'm like whatever, be like whatever, this
is absolutely going nowhere. So we walk in and Big
Daryl says to me, yo, who's shorty And I'm like, oh,
that's my wife and she goes, yeah, right and keeps

(02:07:07):
it moving and keeps it moving. So I go one way,
she goes the other. We're chilling. It's getting like late
the think tank to die on me. I don't have
the think take anymore. I'm living in my parents house
and the Long Island Railroad that took me to my
my house because you didn't take that. I was done
with the train, the Long Island rail which was close

(02:07:27):
to my parents house. If you didn't get on like
the one seven or the midnight train, the next train
was like six o'clock in the morning with some dumb ship.
So I'm like looking at my watch and I'm like, okay,
I got a time this right. I gotta time this right,
you know. Dotta out of I'm hanging out. I'm hanging
out with Red Yatta. I'm bumping into chantel with making
fun of people, and I'm like, oh, that's kind of funny.
Outa out Of Red goes into his reggae session. You know,

(02:07:50):
Barrington Levy like, who's your bond Tim, And I'm like, oh,
this is my ship that oh I can bogle like
a mother. Don't get a twist. I don't getting funked up.
So I see Chantell and I'm like, oh, you want
to dance. She's like yeah, So we're dancing. I'm like, damn,
she kind of she's short, but she looked good, like
you know, like she looked really good. So I'm like,

(02:08:13):
all right, let's go kick it over here. And I'm
like looking at the time, I'm like, you know, I
only got a little bit of time to kick it
withou because I gotta go. And I'm like, you know,
we're talking and she's telling me she's kind of kicking
it with kay Rock m C Lights DJ and they're
like kind of friends and yadda dada dada da. And
I said it was like, look, I'm gonna go. Do
you mind if I give you a kiss good night?
And she's like, yeah, I mind if you give me
because I don't even know you. I'm like, okay, like

(02:08:37):
all good. So we're talking a little more, talking a
little more. I'm looking at my watch. I'm like, yeah,
I really gotta go. I'm like all right. I said, look,
I really had a good time. I was great talking
to you. You know, is it okay if I give
you a kiss of night? And she was like yeah, okay,
and I kissed her and it was just fireworks, Like
I never felt like that from a kiss before, so

(02:09:00):
that would He's be big fucking weather balloons attached to
cinder blocks, some real cool like rap party ship right
like corny and I tracked one over, just like what
the funk are you doing? And I said, this is
what you're gonna tell our grandchildren. I gave you as
my first gift. I said, I gotta go, and she's like, no,

(02:09:21):
you don't have to go. Why don't you just, you know,
stay at our apartment and she was like, I was
like work, She's like relaxed. We got a sofa. So
I stayed. And the next day, March ninete, was my
dad's birthday, so I had to run back home and
I celebrated my dad real quick, and then I went
back and we have been together ever since twenty eight, yes,

(02:09:41):
and that was what years that was. And this is
before before the record, oh yeah, even before. It feels
like our first love supreme love story. We don't really
tell those two often around here. The day after Valentine's
Day where we just talked about breakups for a good
half and I, I will say, as as a liner

(02:10:03):
note junkie. No, I mean, I remember, like I'm one
of them dudes that remembers great liner notes from albums.
But I don't know why this is. I got the
Cactus c D I got the day before. By this point,
I was working at an insurance agent, like I was

(02:10:27):
always skip in love. Okay, I see what, I'm going
back to Cactus. Okay, we no, no, no what hang on,
hang on, hang on. But you know it took me
like an hour to get from my insurance job back
to West Philadelphia. So you know, I get done work
at the eleven PM. So I remember, like, you know,
I've listened to these CDs and my disc man, and

(02:10:48):
I remember reading the liner notes to the Cactus uh CD,
which was like fifteen pages long like everybody and their
Mother exactly like literally our last album. Like I literally
looked at it like this will never sell. We're like
we'll do a thousand units. I'll be cool in Brooklyn
and we'll be dumped I mean, I never thought we
would ever have Why did it? Why did it sit you?

(02:11:09):
Because they didn't think we had a hit. And when
I did step into the A M. Right after we
did seven today and we played it for Russell, he
was like, Okay, we're gonna put the record out. And
then two days later we got with Prince Paul and
then we did Brooklyn Queens and gas Face. Alright, so wait,
wait waiting to Love. I just want to get my

(02:11:32):
point out what that was that I was really seeing
chantel I'll make an honest woman out of you. Yet
one on the liner notes like I was like, you know,
that's that's some real ship, Like I don't know why
that's always stuck with me most even don't do that.
That's that's some real vulnerable ship to put out there. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean my wife and I left all the time

(02:11:54):
we've been together twenty eight years, three of them good
and um, I mean just I mean we've all, you know, listen,
being married to an artist. And I was going to
say how it's tough. It's apropos that he's on our
Valentine special, So it really is. Yeah, you have probably
one because at a break up had a break up,

(02:12:15):
you just got with your girl story. I mean, because
the thing is is that to have true love, like
the love you talking about, or to really grab the
brass ring, I feel like you can only worship he
wanted God. Yeah, he only thinks that. He doesn't think

(02:12:36):
it's possible to like have a functional love life. And
the thing is, maybe I'm not being honest about what
my goals are and what is a good woman to
you just thinks me to think, what do you want
to know that for? Anyway, I'm just saying, here's here's
here's the here's the short of it, the longest short
of it. There's nothing to teach because the truth of

(02:12:58):
the matter is I was a funk up most of
my marriage. I was a young I was young, dumb.
I was running around, I was flirting with chicks in
front of my girl like I was being mad, disrespectful.
But I thought that, hey, if I just come home,
I make money, that should be enough. And when I
thought it wasn't enough, I was like, Okay, we'll have
kids and that'll be enough. But that wasn't enough. The

(02:13:22):
one thing I have to say, in all honesty is
that the only reason I know unconditional love is because
of she didn't tell, because I know I didn't give
her unconditional love for most of our marriage. I sat
my girl down when we first moved into our apartment
and I said to her, to her face, you are

(02:13:45):
second to my music, and if you can't live with that,
there's the door. I've said that, Yes, I've been on
the other end. You said second. And she looked at
me and she said, I'll give you two and a
half years of my life and if you don't wife me,
I'm out the door. And I said, fair enough. At
what point in the relationship, I'm sorry, was this year?

(02:14:06):
We moved in in June of nine. I'm married dur
in November. So it's very true. It's absolutely true. And
you know, and I knew, like there was a lot
of turmoil in my life in ninety one the band
was breaking up, like I was really like there was
a lot of ugliness in my life, and she was

(02:14:26):
the one light that I was like, yo, I gotta
do right, baha, Like that's the one thing I gotta do, Like,
I gotta do right. But I didn't, even even though
I was raised in a family and insulated family, mother
and father. They were neurotic Jews from New York. Like
they talked by yelling at each other, like you know
what I'm saying like that, like it's a bad thing,

(02:14:48):
you know what I'm saying. So like when we would
have loving conversations, I'm like, no, this ship is wrong,
Like I gotta go funk up so that we can
start yelling at each other and having this relationship, you
know what I'm saying, Like you know. And we got
to a point where she was like, I want to
know everything. This was about six months ago. She said,
I want to know everything because I need to know

(02:15:10):
everything everything everything, I mean everything. Ever, does she really
do you really want to know? She really wanted to Later,
so I wrote it down. I wrote it down in
a letter everything. How long was that letter? Here? Some letter? Right?
Nine pages? How about nine pages? And it was It

(02:15:34):
was tough, and to watch the pain in the face
to see the ship was tough. And yet and still
she said, okay, okay, I love you unconditionally, rich or poor,
sickness and in health to death. To his part, I
will work well on this with you. We will work

(02:15:54):
on this together. We will build, we will rebuild what
you destroyed. And if we can't read building, I'm out.
You know, six months ago this was that's amazing. It's
what led what led to that point, was that a
part of your recovery, That's something you know. It wasn't
really just about my recovery. It was just I just
needed It's funny because Matthews here and I'm like, damn,

(02:16:18):
Matthew should have left a long time ago, right, I
told Matthew, And it was like, damn, I just gotta
grow the funk up, like I'm old. I gotta grow
the funk up like this is. This is like the
woman I've been with, like fever, and she put up
with me forever, and she gave me three amazing kids,

(02:16:38):
and she like sacrificed and like, and I gotta make
the next fifty years as good as you know, I
gotta make I gotta make it right because music ain't
gonna wipe your ass. No, music ain't gonna feed you know,
you're damn sure right. Music ain't gonna help you when
you're in a hospital that stuff. So, you know, but
music got me the life that we had. Music got
you know, music took us around the world. Music got

(02:17:02):
my kids into private university. Music got my kids to
go on vacations. Music got me to build Echo and
Limited Clothing. Music got me to be the head of
promotions at def Jam. Music got me the morning show
at JAILB. Music got me the White Rapper Show. Music
got me Miss Rap. Supreme music got me Goo music
got me you know, all of the things, All the
blessings that I have is because of hip hop, and

(02:17:26):
she is the biggest blessing and I took advantage of
that for most of our marriage and now it's about
time to give back. I think if if I were
a cat that you know, because again I'm in the
being in it. We're all in the industry and you
know the challenges in the in the in the obstacles

(02:17:49):
and all that stuff, I don't I couldn't do that
with not a not a straight face, like no, no, no, no,
I mean just doing dirt and you know, covering my
tracks and it's like it's it's but then on the
other side, it's like, does that make me a self saboteur?

(02:18:11):
When I know, like all right, well, you know I
know that one I'm more committed to my career than
I am a real sustainable relationship, and I'm more you know,
I know that I might get bored or might funk up,
or like I'd rather debt it and not funk up

(02:18:34):
or be the bad guy than two time. Well, I
don't Well, I don't think that you know what I'm saying.
I don't think that it's necessarily wrong to be to say, Okay,
you know, my career comes first, and you know I say,
I don't think it's anything wrong with that. Honestly, I
think it's kind of necessary. Like with music. And I
can say this, and I know font is gonna appreciate this.

(02:18:55):
When you make a great song. The only joy I've
ever had greater than making eight songs watching my children
come into this work that I mean, and I hate
to say that, Like I love my wife. I've had
amazing moments with my wife. We've been to amazing places.
But when I laid the verse for gas Face, it

(02:19:16):
took one take. Like I've had moments where that song
has like transformed people's lives. I had a kid, I
was in d C. I was at UM the Children's
Hospital for kids with terminally ill children, and we cacked.
This album just came out and we went to make
a visit. We were with a station there called PGC,

(02:19:37):
and we made a visit and this kid came up
to me and he said, black hat is bad luck.
Bad guys were black. Must have been a white guy
started all that. And I looked up and there's about
ten nurses behind him and his mother and they're bawling,
and I just and he hugged me, and I hugged
him and I'm like, yo, you spent some good rhyme shorty.
And he went and he went back and they came

(02:19:58):
over to me and they said, that's the first words
he I said in his life. Whoa. And then I
started pauling, you know what I mean, Like, I've had
moments where like we went to London and did gas
face at a time where there was a British literally
almost an overthrow called the poll tax that was Parliament
was trying to make attacks where they said that every

(02:20:20):
member in the household had to pay attacks. So it
really affected poor people because they had large like especially
in Brixton and Brighton in the hood, you'd have ten
or twelve people living under a roof and it would
literally be like a year salary just in tax, and
there was there was graffiti everywhere, and I mean, I'm

(02:20:40):
talking about like burning streets and people walking. And we're
on tour with pe and we do a show in
Brixton and we're opening and we're about to do gas
face and shut it down and I turned, I told
Rich cut the music and I went black cat as
bad luck. Bad guys were black must have been the
same queen as set up the poll tax. Pever play

(02:21:02):
started going crazy, People ran into the streets. The show
was over the next day. The daily like third Base
sets riots in Brixton and YadA and we're like in
BBC and like tell us how you And I mean,
but the only moments that I can equate to that
is watching my like my children come into this world,

(02:21:23):
like watching my wife give birth to our kids. Like music,
There's something so powerful about music that defines and goes,
especially for a musician. I'm not talking about music lovers.
There are there are certain levels of music lovers, but
creative people that have this gift from the most high

(02:21:43):
that they can take something transcribed and then record it
and then spend the hours in the studio to mix
it and get it right and master it. And then
have it touched somebody six months later, and then a
year later, and then five years later, and then ten
years later, and any years later. I mean, that's like,
that's like giving, That's like raising a child, you know

(02:22:05):
what I'm saying. And and it's and and again. It's
like one of the things that like, really I'm passionate
about more than anything. Is this what I like to
call a social music commune. About people that speak the
language of music, not different languages, are not different creeds
or races or just who all speak the language of music,

(02:22:26):
that have a mutual love of music. And about two
years ago, my daughter came to me and she said, Dad,
you know when I when I meet people, whether it's
on Tender or Facebook or you know whatever, everybody always
asked me, like what kind of music I listened to?
What's the first album I bought? Where did I you know,
what show did I go to? And it's a connector?
And she said, is there is there an app out

(02:22:49):
there that connects people on their mutual love of music?
And I was like, huh wait, huh. So I called
my partner Ben, who is in Silicon Valley, and we
spent six months and there was a couple of iterations.
People tried it and they failed, and I met Matthew,
my partner, and we built an app called to Do,

(02:23:10):
and a Do is literally a social music commune that
we're getting ready to put into beta that literally connects
people on a mutual love of music. So whatever music
you have in your your UM mobile device, the Apple
suck it in and break it down into genres bpms,
the music that you listen to the most. The algorithm

(02:23:31):
will literally feed that. And then we put out what's
called a tuner in a thousand mile radius and somebody
else you can connect with and you can get we
can say you can get in tune with them. You
can tune in or tune out. So when you tune in,
it'll say, oh ship, fine, got these songs. This is
what we have in common. But this is what we
don't have in common, Like I got like a j
cole like um Lights please unreleased joint that you might

(02:23:55):
not even know about, and you'll see it on your
device because this is the music that we don't share.
And you'll send me a share button. I'll show you
the app when we leave, you'll send me a share
and I can send you that song and we can
build and then we have a whole chat about it.
We can build and break bread just on music. And
we're doing the beta. We're doing the beta now, like

(02:24:16):
we're setting the beta, and if you want to get
on the beta, go to beta at get a do
a due dot com. But it's that language that we
all speak. It's the language you've spoken since you're eight
years old. Bro, It's that language of music. And now
I feel like if I've got a Joe who loves
Son of berserk's changed the style. Yeah, wife, right there.

(02:24:45):
Yeah it sounded good though. That was nice set up. No, No,
that's real because music, I think the music into I
mean I think that's it's such a big part of it,
such a big it's such a big part of who
you are. And especially for us who are old enough
to say, okay, we we knew Ohio Players, but we
also knew Talking Heads, and we also knew Rapture, but

(02:25:08):
we also knew Parliament Funkadelic, and we watched it develop
into the Last Poets or the Last Poets developed into
Lord Tim, and Lord Tim developed into sugar Hill, and
sugar Hill developed it and we were we were privileged
enough to be a part of that, to be a
part of that, that language that we all got to speak,

(02:25:28):
even though people you know what I'm saying. But it's
interesting because let me ask the search because you're a
big businessman of course, publishing a music industry. So how
do you do this? How do you do this app?
And with the whole royalty thing and sharing does that
come into place? No, So just so we're clear, we're
not a streaming service. That's a four letter word from me,
like I'm not gonna stream music, like I'm not getting

(02:25:50):
into that ship. The basis is very simple. You already
owned the music that's on your playlist. You already own
the music that's in your library, not a playlist, your catalog.
You already own that. So when you share it with me,
I can listen to it, or I can buy it myself.
I don't, I don't just have to keep it. When
you play it for me, I'll get a chance to

(02:26:10):
listen to it. And I said, damn, I like that,
and then I can press another button in my in
my tuner and I can buy the record. But we
won't be a streaming service. That's not what we're about
We're about people connecting on music. So another another thing
we have is called the in sync option. Where Sam
might be walking by me and he'd be listening to
Masters of Ceremony, right, and then I'm happy to listen

(02:26:32):
to the same thing, and we'll get a pain and
be like, oh, ship, Sam's listening to the same song.
You'll listen to. You care to tune in and we
can tune in and then boom, I get his entire library,
he gets my entire library, and I say, hey, what's
up man? I'm I'm Michael. Oh what's up? I'm saying, like, yo,
you got that beast boy cookie? Push it? Can you
share that with me? And then he can share it
with me in a matter of seconds, and then I

(02:26:54):
can either buy it or I can go to you
and say, damn, yo, I mere you remember this cookie?
Push it? Right? And I to share with you. You
know what I mean? And it's that language of music,
And that's a positive thing in two thousand and seventeen,
that you know, that's one good positive thing. Yeah, but charms,
you just named like about five thousand businesses as you did,

(02:27:15):
like it was from the TV shows. Because this is
what I know of you. Your finger is always on
the precipice of greatness before we know it. Because you know,
even when you introduced me personally to new Vote before
it was the big thing. Why what is it? How
do you know? How do you know? I've just been
you know, It's funny. I've really been blessed in my
life to be around trailblazers, and I've really watched them

(02:27:36):
really really closely. I watched Russell and le Or build
def Jam Brick brought Brick. I watched Mark Echo build
Echoing Limited brick by Brick. I watched Russell take def
Jam from its depths and bring it back brick by Brick.
I watched you know. So I've been able to like learn,

(02:27:58):
churn and earn based on all the knowledge I got.
I've been so blessed to be around these people. I
ask a lot of questions. That's why my boys call
me search because I'm always looking for the answer. I'm
always asking questions. I'm always trying to figure out what
the next thing is, what the next thing is. And
for me, when my daughter, you know, and again my
mother said it to me, she goes, you really won't

(02:28:19):
understand what you created until you have your own children.
And she said in a letter, and my daughter Mayanna
created a do what that was her idea. It was
her idea. She was a senior. She was gonna be
a senior at university and shout out to the cans um.

(02:28:41):
So it's it's all of that playing itself. It's that
born to born, you know what I'm saying. It's that
that recycle. And I'm going to say something that might
offend you a mere but I think the greatest tragedy
in your life right now is that you don't have children.
And I think that that to me. But the child

(02:29:01):
that you're going to create, it's going to be so
impassioned by so many things that develop who you are
as a human being. And that's why I've had a
friendship with you for so long, because you are a
true passionate artists. I sure you kids are coming, ladies
and gentlemen. I hope so search we haven't even got

(02:29:26):
to dryl I know. Okay, that's gonna be like a
normal ass interview. Man. So you were talking about that
dark period and I want to ask you about that.
I know, I know, alight rapid fire questions. So looks.
That was an album that I admittedly I was disappointed
in and it was just to me, it just and

(02:29:49):
let me let me tell you why. I mean, look
and listen to it. Now it's like, oh, this was dope.
But at the time it just felt really dark, like
it just felt and I don't know, no, I think
I think you nail. I think it just felt like
some of the humor was that. It just felt like, man,
this is a dark record. Well, I think Dialect was.
I think if you think about Problem Child, if you
think about Derek Looks like, Yo, it was a dark

(02:30:11):
period for us. I mean, and the album cover of
us as homeless old men, like, yeah, it was really dark.
I remember. The funny thing is I remember the head
of retail at Sony at the time we just turned
into Sony. Guy said to me, he goes, Yo, we
can't this can't be the album cover. It's gonna turn
off impulse buyers. I'm like what He's like, Yeah, this

(02:30:32):
is too dark. He's like, you got a record called
Pop Goes the Weasel and you popping the Weasels and
all of that, and this this dark shit. That record
went golden fifteen days on the sixteenth day, I was like, Yo,
what's going on with those impulse bots cocks? It's called
fans bitch looking um. But it wasn't dark and and
I was in a dark place and Pete, we were

(02:30:53):
in a dark place in our partnership. And I'm just
gonna keep it one hundred. Pete and I just like
you said, we were just like we were putting together. Yeah,
we were arranged marriage. And by the second album, what
we wanted was different. What want? So for me, I
wanted I wanted a New York Street record, Like I

(02:31:15):
was already like fucking with NAS and fucking with O C.
And like I wanted, like I wanted to do that
like Mike Techniques and like that was the album. I
wanted to make ladies gentlemen, right, you know in Al's
a B C's and like that was like that, Yeah,

(02:31:36):
that was my ship. And even Daddy Rich in Atlanta
twelve tens, like you know what I'm saying, Like that
was but Pete really was like making these dark, archaic,
like alternative samples, and like because I was already with
my wife, so he was he was the problem because
dog Godzilla's my ship. Yeah, like burn that was that was?

(02:32:02):
Why was that not a single? Because we fell apart,
Because we fell apart when we went out with Pop
Goes the Weasel, when we went out with that tour,
we got thirty minutes. And please tell me how y'all
got what's his name in the video to play Vanilla Ice?
Oh Rollins, Henry Rollins, you get Henry. Jesse Himmelman Ak,

(02:32:25):
Jesse Dylon was best friends. Jesse Dylan directed that video.
Oh that's it, Okay, that's crazy, so um. Bob Dylan's right,
But he wasn't going by Dylan. He was going by
Jesse Himmelman because he didn't want right right, so um,
but he directed the video. So I was in a
very different place. I didn't want to be the kid

(02:32:48):
who is free styling with shock G and Tupac in
the in the lobby till four o'clock in the morning.
Like I didn't want to be the one who was
running around being a clown and his underwear, you know, laughing,
you know, and all of that ship. Like I wanted
to have my wife in the road like I had
promised her, like I would take her to see the world.
So I was like we all made decisions like who
you want to have on the road. So he was like, yo,
I want my man Shamik and Rich said I want

(02:33:10):
this person. I said, yo, I want Chantel And they
were like huh fun fun crusher. Yeah. Like but Chantel,
like you got it. She's a fucking gee. Like she
told all of them to the faith that they faced,
like I don't give a funk about your girls. Funk
who you want to funk. As long as my man
is straight, I'm good. She would like set up towels

(02:33:32):
and water for us on the side of the stage.
She didn't have to do that. Ship, she would do it.
She made friendship bracelets with the girls and like she
she just did her ship like she wasn't getting in
anybody's way, and Pete was doing his dirt and like
we weren't getting in a way. And then one night
in St. Louis, like he decides that he wants to
just come fux some chicks in the back of the
bus and we're like, okay, whatever, But the bus drivers

(02:33:54):
can only drive a certain amount of time and night
before they have to pull over. And he had a place,
we had some place to go and where we did
the show in St. Louis was an hour away from
the venue, so it had taken us and he wanted
to take them back because their car was back at
the venue. I was like, oh, get some tricks off
the fucking bus, right, Like, get these holes off the bus, man,

(02:34:16):
it's time to go. And I went into my bunk
and what happened was Pete got off the bus and
he flew back to New York in the middle, in
the middle of the tour. So we pull into South Carolina.
Manager uh, guy named Mark Pearson, So he goes back
to New York. I don't notice. We're going over Friday's

(02:34:38):
receipts and I see that he took three days of
per dam when he wasn't on the road. And typically
what we would do is we would give that to
the dances, you know, give it to our crew, like
you know what I'm saying, Like whatever, So I said
to I said to Mark, I said, Mark, with you know,
why did you give him the DM? He goes, Yo,
just go talk to Pete. He's on some ship. So
I go to the room and I see my two dances,

(02:34:58):
who are my boys? Like grew up me and g
y P would like sub Rock and cam d like
my man. I'm at an Otis like my people. They're
sitting around Pete and I'm like, Pete, why did you
take the damn for three days on the road? You know,
you know we give that to the dances. And he's
on the phone and he goes, well, if your bitch
wasn't on the road, I wouldn't have to go home.
And I said, what did you just say? He said,

(02:35:20):
you heard me? If your bitch wasn't on I said, yeah,
you need to come out here and catch this ass
wepen really quick. Hey. He's like, what are you gonna do?
Slap me? I said, no, you you look like a
grown ass man. I'm gonna beat your fucking ass right.
So he's not coming out. He's and what happens is
he's on the phone with Leor and Or and they're
hearing this. So I called le Or and at the time,

(02:35:42):
our booking agent, Lee Stollman was working at Russia, and
I said, look how many weeks we got in um
deposits on the tour? He said another two weeks and
we already we had taken Cypress on the road. Cypress
was our opening act, so like we're like I said,
I said to Lee, I said, look, we got to
come off the road and regroup. Don't take any more
deposits on this tour. And right now, like Paco's was

(02:36:05):
number two in the countries, like number two pop wreck
in the country, Like we're selling out like ten thousand,
twelve thousand seat arenas like we're doing I think. I'm like, look,
we need to regroup. We need to come off this tour.
We need to come off this road and regroup. So
the tour was going towards New York. We land in Philly.
It's the last night of what I think is the
last show. I've been traveling behind the tour bus in

(02:36:25):
a car, in a rental car with my girl, like
not even going near them. At the Philly show, Pete's girlfriend,
Daddy Rich's girlfriend, they those guys told they're girlfriends that
my girl was sucking up the relationship in the group,
they try to jump my wife behind on the side
of the stage. Wait what Pete's girl and this girl Mona,

(02:36:49):
whose richest girl? They try to jump my girl Like
I'm like watching this from the side of like I'm like, so,
I'm not even like I'll do my verse and get
off stage and like protect my girl. Like that was it.
I'm all my home, I'm I'm on my way home.
I'm on my way home. And I said, Yo, I said,
this ship is crazy. I'm on I'm literally on the
phone and I'm saying to Liore like Leo, this ship

(02:37:12):
is crazy, like they just try to jump my girl
and yadda da da da and he goes. We booked
another three weeks, and I said, and I said, you
just killed the group. I said, you just killed the
group because at the end of these three weeks, I'm done.
So those three weeks, I would literally get on stage
and Dispete in front of our crowds, like, instead of Pete,
tell him, manifest this like in Wheres of Wisdom, I say, yo, bitch,

(02:37:33):
tell him, and I would come off stage when he
would rhyme, and when he was finished, I come on
stage and do my verse and then leave the stage.
And the audience no, no, no, they were, Oh they
were they were. MTV was Kurt Loder, Yo, problems with
Third Base got the number one record in the country,
and the great group has fallen apart. And I basically

(02:37:54):
told I told um, I told Leo and Russell like
I'm done. I and my wife is like, you know,
is this really what you want? And I said yeah,
and I said, in fact, I said, let's go get married.
Let's go get married. Fuck them, let's get married, like
I'm ready. And she's like, well, I've been ready. So
we got our blood work. We got our blood work.

(02:38:15):
The one day we went to Queen's County. Um, we
went to Queen's County court. What got married? And I
headed out to l A to live with my man
Epic from Wolf Epic. Right, yeah, that's exactly right. I
have so many questions about return of the product, so
so I got to live with them. I start recording

(02:38:37):
return of the Product. I'm with Wolf and Epic. We're
doing hard but true. Here it comes like all that ship.
I'm in l A just like chilling, like I'm chilling,
like me and my wife were just chilling. I don't
even want to go back to New York. I got
a house day. I'm not even in there, like I'm
paying bills like a cross country gotta uta. Russell says, Yo,
you gotta come home. It says this is enough. It's
it's enough. You gotta come home. I come home. I

(02:38:59):
go to see him. He that apartment shares old apartment
almost four street. I go upstairs. He's trying to yell
at me. I'm like, I grabbed the dead player. I
put in his dad machine. I play here it comes.
He starts hearing here it comes, and he starts bouncing
on his dead like this, Oh my god. Okay, you

(02:39:20):
could do the solo record. And that's how the solo
record happened. Wow. And but that was a dark but
that was the dark place. And it started with the
darkness of the recording of the album. It started with
you know, Pete being like disillusioned and me being disillusioned
with the partnership. It started with a lot of that.

(02:39:41):
And and really the relationship started with he challenged me.
I didn't really feel like I was making great records
as a solo artist when I was with Sam sever
Like as soon as I heard words of Wisdom, I
was like, oh, I gotta set my game up hard
as hard as Chinese arithmetic. Like I wasn't thinking no
ship like that, Like I I gotta I gotta step
my game up, you know what I mean? Like in
that's what I did, Like he challenged me. I wasn't challenged. Yeah,

(02:40:04):
it just didn't sound like it sounds like whatever fun
or passion it was going right, was like man, you know,
and it's it sucked the life. That album sucked the
life out of me and more always than one. And
also there was a transition in our audience that sucked
the life out of me. That was my next question,
because I'm like, if y'all a number two of pop
goes the weasel that yeah, like Club MTV and yo,

(02:40:32):
and you know what's funny about Club MTV. I wouldn't
say anything to Julie Brown because I didn't respect us,
So she would put the mic in front of me,
and I just cut my mouth closed, and then she
would go to Pete and Pete would talk, and then
she'd asked me a question. I kept my mouth closed.
I didn't want to be there, like, because the thing is,
there's something happening with the transition of hip hop between

(02:40:54):
eighty nine and nine, and what it is is like,
by the time we arrived in ninety four, it's cool
to embrace your alternative art and the new face of
what hip hop for the next gazillion years. But there
was there was so much slat that you know, the

(02:41:15):
source was given Cyperso for like who these white boys
and the audience are attracted and like even the source
didn't understand what was going orange. So you guys were
a part of You're seeing the audience literally changed and
it doesn't look like the Latin quarter no more, no
not even doesn't look like the Latin quarter. We I
mean we went from having like literally on popcas Weisel,

(02:41:37):
we would have like shows that the Palladium in l A,
where it's like all black crowds, to doing Roanoke, Virginia
and college kids jumping on our stage and hugging our
dancers and flying into the audience and like surfing, like
I'll never forget the first time that happened. Our dancer
I met, thought somebody was rushing him and like body
slammed the due to the ground and he was like

(02:41:57):
and just jumped in, just got stage dived. And we're like,
what the fund is going on? Like we're going to
like pop stations and we're telling pop stations like you
realize we're dissing you on this record, Like you do
realize we're disencap radio. You're not playing day Last Soul.
You're not playing a tribe called Quest. You're playing Hammer

(02:42:18):
and Vanilla Wafer like you're playing bullshit, Like you should
be playing Big Daddy Kane. You should be playing Queen Latifa.
You should be playing Tribe. You should be playing pe
like that's real hip hop. And they're like now music
Factory like and I'm like, I'm like, I'm like funck,
Like what who am I talking to? Like I don't
even know these people? And again going back to the

(02:42:39):
whole thing, I have to protect hip hop, but I'm
at a point where I don't even know what hip
hop is. When I'm looking at these dudes, I don't
even know what uh So at the time, is this
like almost like a fight for your right thing where
it's like, okay, so, no, I always thought that it
was dope, Like I thought that sample was. No. It is, though,

(02:43:01):
but you didn't realize that it might come to bite
you in the act, to turn you into the very thing. Right. No, no,
not at all. What we say hip hop got turned
into hip hop. The second record was number one on
the Pop Chat. But don't get on the heart that
got to start in the ghetto. Let no one forget
about the hard part. Now, in ninety one, we got
a new band, a new brand looking like the same

(02:43:22):
old clan, same old thieves eskeeps. So we gotta make
sure that real rap has got to endure. And I'm
looking at these white boys that are like and I'm like,
you don't even know who the funk I'm talking about. Yeah,
you know what I'm saying. But at least public enemy,
they were smart enough to educate the people. Like Chuck
would look at these people and say, you are not
my enemy, but here's why you were my enemy. You know.

(02:43:45):
He would have that conversation like we weren't having a conversation.
We were like, you guys look like dicks, Like we
don't look nothing like you, Like we aren't nothing. I
hated those kids, and you know what a lot of
those guys now they come up to me and they're
like CEOs of companies and like, dude, we used to
rock you and you know the frat And I'm like, yes,
let's do business. It's really funny. Like now I'm glad

(02:44:09):
you respect me. Like I need I need money for
a dude, We're doing this BC fund and like we
need to raise money. Here's my May and Matthew like, Yo,
let's let's raise this capital because you're a frat boy who,
like you know, pop goes the weasel, so like you know,
goes to weasel crowd when y'all did, what would response
be like when y'all did like a Brooklyn Queens or
they loved it, Yeah, they would funk with it. But
for me, like as soon as it was done, like

(02:44:31):
the greatest thing that happened to me was my solo
album because NAS came into my life, you know what
I mean, and O C was already in my life,
and like that brought me back home. Like even in
l A, I was twisted. Like in l A, I'm
making these happy hard but true. I'm talking about Nora,
you know, Zora Neil, and I'm talking about like how
hard it is to be truthful to who you are.

(02:44:52):
And I'm like and I'm letting my man reefing, I'm
letting my man Maddie see here. And they're like, yo,
but you gotta get back to the street like here
some piece like go go listen, and like that's when
I made you know, back to Tray double XI so
um so yeah. So and then you know and then
that brought me back, like a meeting Nas and doing

(02:45:14):
all of that that How did you know that tray
oh I had a double x fise album mother had done.
I thought I was not getting go on the edge
of the door when I'm not, no no no, So

(02:45:36):
I mean, so that was what really brought me back.
Is like when Nas came into the studio reefing Stretch
and was like, yo, I need help. Like I was like,
this is hasham, this is the most high, like bringing
me back to where I need to be helping the
Queen's m see and like doing what I should be doing,
which is protecting artists, you know what I mean. So
the baseball car stuff, what was that with? So the

(02:45:58):
other thing? Well, so Pete has been in some interesting
situations post third base. One of the things. First of
it was this pro solo album I was kick. I
remember Dust the Dust. I remember that was the first
time I remember reading an exact actually say that they
were worried about how a record was gonna sell and

(02:46:20):
that I was like, damn, they just Russell. He was like, yeah,
we don't know how this is gonna do. I'm like, damn,
so much for the right, keep right right right, but
at least fourteen shots on platinum. I mean it's still
you know, you know, but um, yeah, Pete sold fourteen
thousand records on that. Damn I sold four hundred fifty thousand,

(02:46:41):
like I think right now, return to protect a like
seven fifty thousand, and Pizza at like fourteen thousand. So um,
I was two of them. Good for you. I'm glad.
I'm glad for you because I don't have to anyway, no, no, no,
but anyway. But but so, Pete was always in love
with baseball. He would always like go hunting for like

(02:47:02):
rare artifacts of baseball, baseball artifacts, cards, gloves like that's
been his passion for a long time. I guess what
I had heard, And if you really want to see
the whole thing, you have to google Peter nash Uh.
There's there's a five thousand word essay that Sports Illustrated
did on it. So supposedly, from what I understand, is
that Pete got involved in some counterfeit signatures and counterfeit

(02:47:27):
baseball card collecting and he basically sold them to a
very high and well known like the jay Z of collecting.
This guy Barry Liftson and he gave and Barry Listson
gave him loans of up to eight hundred and seventy
five thousand dollars against this is phony cards and then
he told Pete that he had like a certain amount

(02:47:48):
of time to pay. Pete wouldn't pay, and then he
had the stuff like ensured or try to, you know,
and then they found out it was worthless. So Pete,
I think I think Pete has a warrant. I don't
know what's going I think there's some warrants for Jersey
and New York that the run. I know he doesn't

(02:48:10):
have a cell phone, like I know. I know that
to get in touch with him, there's one number that
you can call on like a Wednesday, and it's somebody
I want to know, I don't want don't Yeah, it's
it's it's something. But I mean, Pete is definitely trying
to fix it, like he's trying to like point out

(02:48:31):
other scams, Like I think he's trying his Twitter thing
as holes of shame, Like he's trying to like point
out other counterfeiters now so that people don't fall into
the same trap. He's claiming that he didn't know, but
I've heard that that's not accurate. That's not accurate, and
and Daddy Rich. Look, the bottom line is this, I

(02:48:52):
will never go on stage with Third Days ever again.
It's it's just done. I tried in two thousand thirteen
is a favorite to a friend. We did a show
at SRB in Brooklyn as a favor, um, and we
got on stage and I had a good time, but
I was so I already have a tremor as it
is from like medication that I take. But I was

(02:49:12):
on stage literally like this. I couldn't control it. Um
and it was nervous energy and it was excitement. It
was a lot of different things that my father's watching
and I'm like, I'm just like shaking and um. But whatever,
for whatever reason, we got a whole bunch of dates
after that. So then we do another date and um,

(02:49:32):
a festival in Indiana, and my wife is looking at
me like, oh God, like I don't really want this
life again, like and I don't want this. So she
says to me, she you know, she finally said, because
I said to her, I said, look, they're putting together
a European tour like dates like and she's like, look,
if you do that, like you might as well just

(02:49:52):
divorce me. I don't want that life. So I said
to our road manager at the time, my man Mikey Palms.
I was like, you know, I'm sorry, I'm not doing
any more dates. And he said, what do you mean?
I said, what do you mean? What I mean? I
just told you, He goes, I just advanced Pete ten
shows because he told me you were doing the shows,
and I said, yo, I said, first of all, I

(02:50:14):
never said I was doing those shows as A and B.
I feel bad for those promoters, but I ain't got
nothing to do with that. My name is paul Us
between y'all, like, I ain't got nothing to do with it.
And moreover, don't ever call me about that again. Don't
ever call me about a show again. So this past
New Year's we got an offer for a hundred thousand
dollars to do one night in Pittsburgh for New Year's Eve,

(02:50:35):
and I said, no, I'm not gonna happen. I'm just
not gonna happen. And Daddy Rich with his sixty followers,
went on a diet try talking about how I try
to fund his girl, how I used to fund prostitutes
on the road, that I gave my wife an stdt
of like this is on Twitter. So I just literally

(02:51:00):
just said, I wish you the best of luck in
your future. Endeavor has never talked to me again, never
see me, you know. So it's that dude is literally dead.
He's dead. Well, Search, I'm giving you. I'm very blessed.

(02:51:20):
We're doing our wrap up with you. Normally we do
it once once our guest is out. But um, frante,
what did you learn? Man h man uh? Man? I
learned that yeah, god, this has been like hip hop
nerd trivia U now, Man, I learned that Search is
very much still you know, in tune, you know, to
the music, to the culture. Um, he is very much. Um.

(02:51:44):
I didn't know that you had records prior to the
Cactus that was. That was my first time hearing those records. Um,
you know, Uh, it's it's funny we have a connection.
Dan charnis he Uh, I do all the rhymes for
the break and there's a line, Uh, there's I play
a character. I play like this. And so he said, man,

(02:52:06):
I gotta call Search about this. And I was like
work because I mean this is our first I meet it.
And I was like man and so he hit me back.
He's like your search with super cool about it. He was,
So I was like, because I'm such a big fan
of yours that first and just everything you've done. I mean,
I'm just a huge fans. Thank you, thank you what
you've done to the contribute to hip hop and the
culture and just amazing listening to you. Like I said,

(02:52:28):
I was. I was ten when Cactus drop. I was
eleven when Derrelocks drop. So I grew up on it.
It's just this is great. Just sit here and just
break bread with your brother. Thank you for you've done.
Mannpaid Bill, did you learn anything? Man? Why did you
use hip hop? Man? You don't even do the both
of this show is like Black History Month. It's like
Black NPR. And then it's like Bill, what's the white perspective?

(02:52:51):
Which I enjoy giving and I'm happy to do so. However,
I feel like today, Babe, the tables returning a little bit,
and I thank you for this balance. So Bill, you
are more than welcome. It is balanced. Sugar Steve, did
you yeah? The chanting was that's the whole part two
with you, It's going to be all chanting right now?

(02:53:18):
I know? She alright, that was to matsa dude Part two,
I think you're a jewishing Bill and Steve it's weird. Um,

(02:53:40):
I learned that searched to write two books, Um, one
of course on business and how to diversify, and the
other on I don't know. I just feel like I
never knew Search your story about how you became engulfed
in the culture and it was such an education and
a long education. I know every white person can't do this,
but maybe he just put it in a book and consolidate.

(02:54:00):
Then we could just it would be a different world.
I'll tell I'll tell you We're gonna have a great
TV show hopefully coming out soon, and that will tell
a lot of great stories. They call me Search coming
soon and the app the app. Yeah, and if you
want to be part of the beta, go to get
go to Beta at get A do G E t
A d U E dot com. Right, Matthew, Thanks? Okay,

(02:54:24):
uh yeah yo? Did you learn everybody? I just want
to say one more thing beside, every strong Jewish man
is a strong black woman, absolutely right. I used to
end my show every radio show. True, that's okay, We're
gonna go Billy, that's the getting punched shot and that

(02:54:53):
the shot. Yeah yeah, well search, I thank you very
much and this question. Love Supreme m h m h

(02:55:23):
m h of course, Love Supreme is the production of
I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the
team at Pandora m M. For more podcasts from My

(02:55:44):
Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.