QLS Classic: Randy Jackson

Randy Jackson rehashes what it was like being the youngest brother of the musical dynasty that was The Jacksons.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Ladies and gentlemen. My name is cours Love and this
is q less classic and we go back with our
how Randy Jackson, not American idol Randon Jackson, but the

(00:24):
original Rand Jackson, of the Jackson five of the Jackson's. Yes,
the youngest Jackson. Well next to Janet Um. You know,
we get into it. We talk a lot about his career,
him joining his brothers at such a young age, Um,
his life as a producer and as a songwriter, and
memories of the family. So this is all the way

(00:47):
from Halloween, October thirty one, two thousand and eighteen. Randy Jackson,
of Course Love Supreme. Suprema suthing suprema role call suprema

(01:08):
subprema role called subdreama some suprema role called suprema subprema.
My name is quass Love. This is my show. I
cannot think of a rhyme scheme to go with. Suprema
suprema road called Suprema s suprema road call. My name

(01:34):
is Sugar. Yeah, I love to dance. Yeah, oh shit right,
just give me that one more chance. So Subprema road
called Subprema Suprema road call. Yeah yeah, yeah role Suprema

(01:59):
so sub sub Frema t mim sub Frema road call.
My name is Randy. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Yeah,
We're gonna have a party. Role call Subprema Subprema road
called SUBPREMEA Subprema road called Subprema Subprema road called get

(02:26):
out sub Frema road call. Damn he lives. Yeah, Q
tip should be a sand of himself and Randy just
signed them. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to uh well always
say it's a special every every episode, so special. Uh
q ls um once again, I call y'all anemic supreme

(02:50):
shout out. No, but y'all hear you know, shout out
to you fan Tikolo and his U countertops, his counter
tops and you know I'm paid bills is like living
on Sesame Street now, right, So shouldn't you shout out
to people who are actually here? Yes? Okay, hello, like YouTube,
we got Sugar Steve and your network and uh boss Bill.

(03:12):
Yeah alright, so, ladies and gentlemen for us, by the way,
you guys always do this. Here's these two schmus It depends,
it depends, it depends. Uh. We we travel all over
the various studios, but you know, Electric Electric Ladies like
our home home. Um so, oh yeah, I should let

(03:33):
you guys know that we're here at Electric Ladies Studios,
House of Hendrick's, House of Voodoo, House of Wonder and
Roy Ears. And I didn't even know I walked in
the until yeah so and shout out to Electric Lady
for finally pulling roots record up. I kind of forgot that,

(03:55):
you know, I didn't know if they knew that I
recorded here as well. So anyway, ladies and gentlemen, I
will say that I've you know, I mean many of
brew haha, over the musical influences of my childhood, you know,
like Stevie this and Princes that, and Dilla this and
Michael this and Quincy that and Steve Room whatever. But

(04:18):
I'll say that in prepping for this episode, I slowly
kind of realized that our guest today is probably more
influential to me personally than I give them credit for.
And you know, basically because of the of of the
timing and the influence of what we know as the

(04:40):
Jackson five of the Jacksons. It was absolutely inescapable in
the seventies if you were growing up black in the seventies,
and um, they were pretty much more than entertainers or
even superheroes. They were damn near like an occupation because
I probably asked more times as a kid, you want

(05:01):
to be a little Randy Jackson when you grow up,
So you know, Randy Jackson to me was more in
occupation than an actual personality. And I guess that sort
of planned the seat. And I'll say that you know
his influence or my life. I'll share stories of his
influence on my life throughout the show. Stories uh for
me wanting to be a percussionist, to various punishments I

(05:23):
received as a child, uh in the name of trying
to stunt like Randy Jackson anyway, Uh, even on the
low of me joining uh the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame Committee to right the wrong of his omission
in that institution. UM, I personally believe he should be

(05:46):
alongside his five brothers in the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame. And I'm actually trying like hell to make
that happen and to write that wrong. Um, because in
my opinion, it was his contributions. That was key to
taking them, you know, to adults and us taking them seriously.
This is I feel like it's like a memorial my fun.

(06:09):
He's like story anyway, I'm just saying welcome. We want
to welcome to the show, singing for cousin, producer, arranger,
superhero and I'm putting out their future Hall of Famer
Stephen Randall Jackson to course lip supreme. Thank you, thank
you think of anything? Uh yeah, you know, Um, the

(06:31):
show's over, so thank you. How are How are you today?
I'm good. I'm good. I just got in uh last
night from England. Good. What what part of London are you?
Living in central Central? I can walk everywhere. It's easy
to walk. Yeah, I uh. Shortly before, at the beginning

(06:53):
of the Roots career, we actually we quote speaking of
hendricks we pulled a hendricks By. Uh, I'll say, creatively
exiling to London and living there. Auld you like it?
For about I loved it because I mean, at least
in nine four, um, you know, we we felt like

(07:14):
there was a space for us creatively as a band,
because you know, the idea of a band was becoming
extinct in the United States, and you know. So we
we lived in Kennish Town in in the northern part
of London, like the Candom market. Yeah, for five years.
But how long have you been living in there? M hmm.

(07:37):
I mean we kept our flat there from like ninety three.
We we needed an apartment there so that way it
wouldn't be expensive, like to go to Switzerland, come back
to Philly and come back to Philly. Yeah. If we
had a hub over in in Europe, then we could
just stay in Europe and work over there. It's about
three years now. Yeah. Man, Yeah, you know, it's interesting

(07:57):
when you're there. They have sins a great appreciation from
music in the history of music. It's like that's all about.
It's like, okay, they love music, jazz Ronnie Scotts Yeah, yeah,
the like every weekend, damn sure. And Lester Square and
Ronnie Scotts. Man, what is is that a jazz club?

(08:17):
This is a jazz club. I think I last saw
when it did like two weeks there. Uh, and I
was I mean, well, I saw these four of those
shows and I was kind of amazing at the fact
that he was just going off the cup for each show.
So for him to be such anti Miles. You know,

(08:40):
I was shocked that he kept it spontaneous. So, so
you you like it over there? I do, I do.
You know, I like the music scene. This is something different,
you know, it's nice, cool, cool. Yeah, and they love
American music of course, you know it's it's no secret,
but it's nice. It's cool. Let's see. Um. So, I
will say that you of course you're you're in New

(09:03):
York right now, yes, because I am. You're you're kind
of the helm of your or partnering with your sister. Yeah,
I'm yeah, I'm We're here in New York and Bay Area,
l A. So I'm traveling between like four places all
the time. Oh, you got helps all over the place.
That's the dream, that's the absolutely dream. Um So, I

(09:26):
want to start from the beginning. So what were your
earliest memories of growing up? And I assume that you
were born in Gary in Dea. I was, I was fella.
Yeah really we used to go up to South Bend.
They got out of beach folks up there. You were.

(09:48):
We were poor. So you go from South Bend. So
I wish I had that car, you know, it's like, yeah,
that's my car. Everyone plays that's my car. That's right.
Everybody plays that. So what were your earliest memories of
what you were growing up in? UM? But Gary was
an interesting place because it's like growing up there's like

(10:10):
gang violence and it's pretty serious, pretty bad. But we
had a father who was like the games were scared
of our father, Like, those are Joe's boys. You know,
they did day crazy, don't mess with them. It was like,
so you know, he uh, he did his best to
keep us out of the streets. So you know, we

(10:33):
were just in the house playing instruments. So but if
Gary was a great experience, it's uh, home is always home. Actually,
I've been spending a lot of time there lately, so
it's nice. Yeo. Yeah, in fact, I'm going back there
on after year. Wait what back to Gary? So you

(10:54):
guys you still on the home there, that's Jackson, that
six hundred and fifty script house. We still have it. Yeah,
it's um. Is it a museum piece now or is
it just is it open for the public to see
you Yeah, they want to make a museum out of
We just want to make it for people to see,
but keep it at home, Like this room is much

(11:15):
the house can fit in this room. Yeah, so we
had two bedrooms. Um, my parents slept in the master
bedroom and me Marlin and Jackie, Tea, Jermaine, Michael, Jackie
we we we slept in the other bedroom in La
Toya Reebian Janet slept on the rivie so for in

(11:38):
a living room, mean male and Michael slept in the
middle bunk. Jackie had the bottom bunk bottom self and
Tito had a top. Tito and Jamaine does have a
I slepped in between Michael and mart and they both
with pee on me. I was like, it was gross.
It was it was gross, you know, but uh this

(12:01):
liw it sounds like a woutine childhood he man, Wow, okay,
I see got a living Hey, so it's it's for me.
Like I know that you were assuming that the idea
of the Jackson five started. You're all right, so you

(12:22):
were four when they started. Did you I feel like,
oh this is me too? Or was it like it
was funny? Um? Remember brothers started, Yeah, like sixty five,
and remember when I Want You Back became like a hit.
They had a local hit, a big boy you know,

(12:43):
Chicago hit, it's some other places. But when I went
you Back became a hit. I was still in Gary
and uh my mother came there room and woke me up. Mhm,
just listen to this was on the radio. I'm like,
is that them? Because yes, we are to sight it
and we're going out to l As. A few days
later we went to l A. It was like culture shock. Man,

(13:05):
I've seen I've never seen like homes in the hills
that's flat. Like, what was it like for you to it? Was?
It was? It was overwhelming, like and I was like,
my eyes freak. You know, I don't know what that was.
It was. It was scary in a way because all
the things I had seen on the view master masters,

(13:30):
so all the things I looked at the right, right,
So all the things I've seen on the view master
at home dreaming one day I'm gonna go here. Maybe
now I'm seeing it in person and these big homes
and Disneyland and you know, the one thing that was
really freaked me out with school buses. Really, if I'm

(13:50):
from we we walked in school and I was eight
years old walking to school and snow taller than me,
you know, but but right, but school buses coming to
pick you up in front of your house. I was like, what,
this is great, this is awesome. But it was a
great experience. Man, it was like changed me out a lot.

(14:12):
When did you move? When did you of ficially move, Della?
It was nineteen seventy one, okay, so you were ten
years old? Two years old? Yeah, so I know about
the first concert with First of all, how did you
finally convince your family likes okay, getting the music thing?

(14:37):
Well to get they weren't with it because at the
time of the true story, and some people may not
want to hear the story, but my dad always wanted
me to be in the band. But I think Motown
thought that add a six brother it would confuse everybody.
So we're gonna see the Jackson six and it's just confused.

(14:58):
So I said, Okay, I gotta figure out to get
my way into this. So so I started just playing
everything I could. Like in our house in l A.
We had a recording studio that had like this place
had drums, guitars, piano. So I would go around the room,
come home from school, do my homework. I've been being

(15:20):
the studio until I went to bead. My brother's be
touring whatever. That was my every day. But I didn't
know that I was developing skills at the time that
would you know, you know, pay off for me later.
But I was at home playing the piano. Then I
turned on the board and started making songs and tracks
and playing all the parts to the on the tracks

(15:41):
and paying the guitar part, and paying the bass part,
and I paid a little trumpety might try to do everything.
So Um, as time went on, things got a little
bit a little bit better, and then um, we went
to CBS Records where we were where we started writing

(16:01):
our own songs. So by that time, my writing, that's
what came through. But I meant for the appearance where
you came out to do ah, I think a brand
new thing or this is what happened was yeah, So
what happened, Um, even before I was officially a part

(16:22):
of the band, I had sang on songs like a
dance machine get it together. I was singing on all
the songs. So I would go to student singing the songs,
but they wouldn't put my face on the album because
it was just confusing. Brother. So yeah, So I was
already involved in singing and touring, Yeah, and touring for
years playing percussion touring, but um I wasn't officially involved

(16:47):
because the sixth brother was going to be confusing. Yeah. Okay,
so at the time when uh, you guys were performing,
it was still Ronnie on keyboards and Johnny Johnny accent,
So that was definitely your brother Jermaine on basis. Yeah yo,
he Jamaine Jamaine Jamaine can play yo. I was gonna say,

(17:10):
like on the Indiana concert. Uh yeah, he was kind
of killing on some James Jamison. So so at least
back then as far as because I want to compare
or at least find out the difference between touring life
in seventy two, seventy four versus ten years later the

(17:35):
Victory tour, which I'm sure as like apples and oranges,
but at least for back then, Uh, Like I'm noticing that, uh,
your brother's microphones sometimes would be two or three of
them taped together. As far as technology is concerned, how
were what would the could you recall back then? What

(17:58):
like what the what the as far as the the
placement of speakers and all those things like that's a
that's a good questions, uh, in terms of recording, well,
not recording, just just live because I know that the
standard for the standard for what what back line is

(18:18):
today versus back then, And you guys were playing stadiums
Like if I was in the newsbleed, could I physically
hear what you guys were doing or was it just
just there to see physically what back then? You know,
we didn't have like pro tools or technology and things
like that, so yeah, monitors or any of this. Yeah,
so everything was like real time, hands on, like as

(18:43):
you see it. And I remember, like, um, show Coode
was doing our sound, but we had our guy named, um,
what's her named Rusty? Okay, that's sound guy back then,
and we use this same guy from Texas and be
sure he was he was amazing. He just he just
had a nice touch. And during the show, I would somehow,

(19:09):
you know, figure out how to go out in the
on the audience and in the disguise because I had
to hear the sound. Like yeah, like I'm the one,
I like my brothers, I'm the one who like pays
attention to all that stuff like some of your technically
m yeah, I'm like I'm at every sound check. I mean,
I gotta hear the sound. It's got a sound, right,

(19:30):
So I would sneak out there and hear the sound,
you know, doing a break and somebody's doing a solo.
I mean, like check it out and I hear the drums.
You know, so um because you got a sound. Even
though we listened to tapes afterwards, it's still not the
same because the tapes are just direct, but you're not
hearing the way it sounds out there. But you know,
in those days, I think there is a natural nous

(19:57):
to it because of the the analog and just everything
real time that's missing today. You know, uh, you know
what I'm talking about. It's missing today, and that those
things that a little bit out of sync and a
little bit of flat all adds to making it sound great.

(20:17):
That's all part of the great. And you know what
I'm talking about, it's like it makes it human, It
gives it the human element that's missing today. Everything is
kind of too perfect in a sense, and I feel
that music loses his dynamics now today. Sometimes you I
can put on a song today and I can't tell
if it's the beginning middle of event because it sounds
the same straight through. But in those days, you can

(20:38):
tell what the beginning of the middle of the end,
buss because because it had the dynamics and sometimes the
temple would change from the beginning of song to the
end song. Even that it's kind of a cool thing,
you know, fluctuation. Yes, um two, I'll say that at
least for you guys, in my eyes, you guys are

(21:00):
like the first people to really benefit the post uh
civil rights Eric glory or the post dream of what
Ah Martin was talking about. As far as like you
arriving in l A and being of age and really
just benefiting. I'm not saying that you guys haven't going
through what most of Black America goes through uh in life.

(21:24):
If anything, you probably have business stories of of double standards,
and we'll get into that, but just on the just
on the offset of of of what was it like
to I mean, I mean, I don't want to say

(21:45):
black beetle Mania, but just the idea of, yeah, what
what was that actually like to be in a situation
where you're pretty much having to run for your life,
run every day? And was it just like one Bill
Brad trying to protect the six of you guys or what? Yeah,
it was at one time, and you know, it's like

(22:08):
it was it was interesting because um, I mean yeah,
it was literally running for your life. Um, there was
a few times we were actually really scared and we
got pretty dangerous. I mean, in those days, we could
never finish a full show because they would actually rush

(22:29):
the stage and the stage would actually collapsed because all
of the pressure and the weight against the stage, it
was fall. So we know Bill would be on the
stage looking at the stage, and we'll be looking at him.
He's had his he'd have his hand up, a signal,
a signal. As soon as he put his hand down,
i mean, dropped your instruments and run. It's like he's watching,
he's watching, and we're still playing. We're looking at him.

(22:54):
As soon as he goes like this, it means go
because the stage is clapping fans of resting stage, we
gotta get out of there. Um. But man, I'm just
you know, did you guys actually invent like the idea
of entourages and because I mean there's no one parallel
to that in black music at least, like you know,
I don't see girls chase in Parliament funkadlic that way

(23:17):
or yeah exactly, so just the just to traal I mean,
things that we take advantage of now, you know, I mean,
I'm explaining to people what the idea of a greater
at the airport means, or a back insurance or that
sort of thing. But you guys have to kind of

(23:38):
find out the hard way. And I'm certain that there
weren't five star hotels at the beginning. So it's just
Romanta ends and the Hiltons and was the five star
right there? A lot of romantic ends and ud ever
get tired of? Did ever get tired? Like were you
at one point where you just over it, like Okay,

(24:00):
this is not fun anymore? Like where's my wallet? Or
someone broke in my room again? You know, we're touring.
It's like, you know, you have fun on tour. It's
like everybody becomes one family. It's a lot of jokes,
a lot of laughing. You make it fun. And right
around the middle of the tour you can get a
little stale. Then towards the end it starts getting fun.

(24:22):
Everybody knows, goody going home, but it starts getting fun
by it. Man, It's it's a lot of fun, was it?
More of the grass is greener on the other side, though,
Like I wish I was home playing with my car
collection on my court. You probably have real looking like
a tycho he probably had, Like yeah, So I mean

(24:44):
was it more like, man, you could spend what places?
Didn't you like to travel? Like even now I'm starting
to appreciate Europe, but in the midst of it, like
I couldn't stand like we gotta do three months in
Europe and I hate this really well. I mean, first
of all, like you know, we I'll say the roots

(25:06):
were at least like the money wasn't rolling them for
the first ten years. So for me, yourp was just
like the worst hotels and living off of this's you know,
twenty four hour McDonald's and back line like that sort
of thing. But for you it was like, um, you

(25:27):
enjoyed it. Yeah, I mean there are some places that
we didn't like going to too much, you know, you know,
not because based on crowd. Like yeah, not because of
the crowd. I mean once we get the stage and
the and the people and the fans were there, it
was all love. But some of these racist towns, it
was was pretty rough. Experienced that even as the Jackson

(25:50):
five walking down the street, where was there and this
guy was able to launch of watermelon at me? What
could and he's probably laughing and man and walking down
the street in South Carolina or something. Yeah, yeah, keeping
the back of the head with it. Yeah, yeah, it was.

(26:14):
It was. It was rough some places. Uh, We're always
get threats from the from the KKK. Seriously, Yes, this
is the stuff we never heard of. Oh yeah, there'd
be threats a few times. I had to walk on
the stage with a bulletproof vest Yeah what underneath my customer?
I had a bulletproof vesta threats Triumph Era Destiny Yeah, seriously, yeah,

(26:42):
damn yo um. Victory Tour, we had a we had
a really bad threat. The FBI came out. They they
were in the trees. We had a feather bombs. It
was some hate organizations and uh and I was the
first one on the stage and Victory Tour Don't run.
I had that whole thing. Yeah, the armor and then

(27:03):
the bullet proof vest on into that, and I was like,
that's crazy. Seriously, we did this show. We didn't stop
y'all never let that out. That's crazy because we didn't know.
You let that out, you may may get more people copycats.
So we're gonna keep this quiet. I can't even imagine
like the Jackson's in the air of social media, Like
if that were a thing, it would have been they

(27:28):
were social media. Um. There's one particular show that I
see a lot of, or at least like small shots of,
but there's no clips. Though, what was the experience of
Do you remember anything about you guys this tripped to Jamaica? Yes,
because I see that photo of you guys hanging with
Bob Marley and that's all I see. But what was

(27:51):
We went to his house and stay there before he
passed away, and I remember it was it was cool.
It was a cool expense and in fact, yeah, they
did a documentary and where there's one part that, yeah,
the most recent when I think it's come out. But
so you guys were hip to who he was because

(28:11):
I feel like he was nice. He was really He
invited us over. We we we uh we did. We
did a show there in Jamaica, some shows there. He
invited us over and we had a good time. Okay,
it's cool. Um, there's the period that I particularly enjoy

(28:32):
and I'm sure a lot of it has to do
with like my age and finally seen you guys, um,
which you know I've I've read various brothers, like even
Roller Eyes at the period or whatever. But for me,
like you know, uh, the Variety Show, Era Jackson's, the

(28:55):
Vegas Aara Jackson's, like, I particularly like that stuff because
it's well what people don't know about those things, even
the Vegas stuff even excuse me, and even the Variety Show.
We um that the show was really successful, but we

(29:18):
we limited to just ten shows and we didn't want
to do any more than that. And then uh, same
thing with Vegas. We don't want to go back to
Vegas because we wanted to do more music. We want
to make it more musical, not just like for us,
it wasn't just about going to Vegas, you know, doing
the show and making good money. We wanted to keep
you musical at that time, we do going to the

(29:39):
studio and make more albums, record and take it to
the next level. But your brother said that, you know,
to do Vegas or at least to do the Variety
Show was more like old hat, and yeah we didn't.
We we only did ten was ten shows. So even
in doing the show, it was sort of like this
is corny, like we rather we enjoyed it, but we
didn't want it to be our brand. We don't want
to be reppy, you know the Variety show. No, we said,

(30:04):
we want to make great albums, performing some large stadiums
and make people happy. So by by the mid seventies especially,
we know that you guys uh exited from Motown. Um.
And part of the reason was that, you know, you

(30:25):
wanted your independence and and um doing production and writing.
How like, how frustrating was it to watch Marvin and
especially Stevie, who was at the apex of his you know,
of the peak of his powers by that period for

(30:47):
you guys not to be able to get the trust
to do the same thing. And were you even developing
songs where you playing them songs like here this is Motown. Yeah,
we weren't play And so it was it was um,
it was still very new in the Motown days in
a sense, and we were all very young, and so

(31:12):
the songs were written produced. But Stevie and Marvin they
were like family. They would always be around at the house.
Stevie is like a third cousin of our Did you
know that? Literally? Yeah? Literally? Yeah, I didn't know a
lot of people don't know that. I don't know. We
never talked about I was talking to him the other day.
We were talking about nobody knows that to me, but
he's related to us through our mother, so um, but

(31:39):
it was like they're always around. It's like it was
just kind of family and and what greater experience can
you have than to be playing basketball with Marvin then
going in the studio you know, just just you know
what I mean. So, uh, I look at I look
back at those days and it's like, how could you

(32:00):
not learn? You know, how could you not learn at
b such great, ah iconic you know, musical people. So
was it officially put to you that we want you
officially in the group circus seventy six or was it
just assumed like okay, you now feel in the spot?

(32:22):
And uh no, it was it was officially. I was
already in the group, but it wasn't publicly exposed. Um,
it was when we left Motown. I think because of
the writing and the songs I've written that it became public.

(32:45):
And the first song one, well, the first we went
we did the Gabon and Hut stuff and that was
another great experience. But Canny, gant On, Leon and have
those guys are amazing. Yeah, the first time I got
to see you guys in person. Uh. Philly International was
literally next door to my elementary school, so usually during recess, Uh,

(33:11):
I would have I've seen you guys maybe like once
or twice run through fully internationally. Yeah, it was on
on Broad Street A lot of times you'd see Pendergrass
and his voice just yeah, yeah, just yeah. I posted
out front and yours yeah yeah, and then it's like

(33:33):
Teddy must be outside. But that was pretty much like
my my first second third grade experiences were just seeing that. Um,
I know that. I want to know what the songwriting
process was like once you guys got your chance, because
I think on the first album you get there's two
songs correct, there's Blues Away and there's the style of Life.

(33:55):
I think the last song on side no no no,
that's going places. So you're talking about the first the
first album, the album, Yeah, blues Away into Star So
you're going to epic were you were? You guys sing
initially to Ron and those guys like yo, we want

(34:18):
to produce. This entire album was just like a baby
steps see if you wanted two songs and see what happens.
But now days like artists have a lot more freedom
to do what they want, you know, you know, but
in those days, um, it's all about developing artists and
record it. It was actually spending money on developing artists.
So you have to prove yourself as a writer. You

(34:39):
just couldn't come in like they wouldn't let you come
in and just write and produce and everything you did.
So they think they wanted to They let us do
two songs and see how that worked. That was like
kind of a trial. So how many to get to
those two songs? How many songs did you guys have
to prepare through just to get to Okay, we like

(35:00):
these two. Yeah, Um, it was it was for us writing.
There's always been like I've never sat down and saying Okay,
I need to write this song, and I always just
it's kind of a fun thing and it always comes
out of fun. And this happens. We always as brothers

(35:21):
were always getting the room as fun because we get
in the room, like when we worked on those songs,
we get in the room for the first i would
say two three days we just talked. It could be
about anything. It could be about the Lakers, it could
it could be but we were also writing. But we're
also developing because we hadn't seen each other while getting

(35:43):
comfortable with each other, so that natural thing can come out,
you know. So we talk all day. We played lad
and we go play a little basketball, you know, and
then we eat. Then we go home, never writing, never
never picked up instrument, do the same thing. Then about
the third day, you know, we start right and okay,
that sounds good, you know, let's do that. So as

(36:04):
far as the division of labor is concerned, like are
you at the piano or do you your other brothers
play instruments as well, you know, your main plays and
Tita that it always kind of starts with the piano.
As music today, the rusting start with the piano. So
i'm um, I'm at the piano playing some some core
progressions and structures and things and and creating some grooves

(36:26):
and um, maybe there's better to add that. The brother
add that and and it come together, okay, and then
you presented the gamma and huff and then yeah, that
sort of thing. Um. So the transition that leads to
the Destiny album, um, which is weird because I guess

(36:50):
me as a kid, I didn't see whether or not,
you know, if going Places was a commercial disappointment or not.
I mean, I'd like that record, but again, you know,
I'm six years old, so I don't know any better.
But what was the what was your general feeling with

(37:11):
going places that led to kind of the do or
diet perception of what Destiny represented for you guys, Sony
it was it was Bobby Colombia, he we call at
Sony was like the and our guy blood, sweat and tears,
you know, the drummer, Yeah, yeah, and um he um

(37:35):
and they he and CBS at the time, Sony CBS
UM trust at us to write and produce our own album,
Um Destiny. But what was the meeting that said, look, guys,
we really have an album in us that we want
to do ourselves without. Okay, well, we always wanted to

(37:55):
do that, right, So we always felt that we were ready,
but they didn't know. I see what you say asking.
We felt that we were ready, but they didn't know
if we were ready. And Um, after we had done
the the the two albums with Gamin and Huff and UM,

(38:17):
for the third album, we we uh someb minute these
some songs and they liked all of them. So they're
demos for all the songs that are on Destiny before
and it was that the modus operanti back then, like
you had to make a full scale demo before that.

(38:38):
Even yeah, can you imagine that, Steve, Uh, that's my life. Yeah,
I can't imagine it. Actually, I don't have to imagine it.
And and you know, and these are demos without computers,
and that's the fulls called demo. And so how full
scale were was the Encino studio, which I assume that
you guys did all of your was it just was

(39:00):
it full scale enough for you to actually record there? Yes?
Oh yes, absolutely. Um, there was a drum booth, everything
was there, so we could do a fulls called a demo.
And so here we're thinking they're gonna pick one or
two tracks or whatever like that, but they like everything.

(39:22):
They're like, wow, this is this is nice. So we
were happy about that of course, and uh, just grateful
to have the opportunity to do it ourselves. And Bobby
also and U and Akisson also produced it. With every call,

(39:44):
So can you tell the story or or the genesis
of how shake your Body that? Like from start to finish,
how how that song got written? It's funny because um yeah, um,
like like that that grew was a group that I played.

(40:04):
I started Pennic Creuer like a thirteen or fourteen, So
you've had those those piano cords in your head for
the longest. The baseline, m M, you know the baseline. Um,
I was influenced by Teddy's What did I tell you?

(40:25):
You don't get that? Don't get funky, get loose? What? All? Right?
I told this is billing games, right, And he's like,
I don't think so, but yeah, yeah, yeah, that baseline
that I was influenced by. That baseline. Yeah, like most
songs are derivative of the other ideas you hear, and
just who because I was around Teddy and the whole

(40:46):
Philadelphia International, it just came out. Okay shows over now.
Let yeah, so you're right. And only said that because
as as a watcher of of What's happening, Uh, whenever

(41:07):
Rerun would dance on that show, Uh, they would do.
And you know, like when when when people score and
place music one on TV shows, of course they don't
license the real song. They get somebody do a sound
alike of it, and their version of it was somewhere
the thin line between Teddy song and what would shake

(41:29):
your body down to the ground. So whenever I think
of rerun dancing, I'm thinking of both songs. And I
was like, I wonder if their experiences in Philly sort
of brought that one. Yeah. I always said that shake
was the sort of somewhere between God to give it
up and and and uh teddy song. So the song

(41:53):
is eight minutes and it's it's it's linear and goes
ahead without a bridge, without but yet it works. So
as far as structuring the song is concerned, how did
you guys, well, you know, and though and that was
wasn't it like the disco the dance era? Everybody just

(42:17):
wanted to dance? So we want to have that one song.
And it's funny because before we before we even recorded
that song, we knew that that would be the song
from that album, you know, we knew it that that
would be the track. And it started with with with
a groove and and melody, but then we had Tom,

(42:45):
Tom eighty four, the all these great people just to
add all these layers to to give it structure and
do you know, and just so it wasn't two repetitive
and boring to jump off that real quick because you

(43:06):
just mentioned strings. How did you guys enlist clear Fisher
to do? Uh push me away? That's interesting. Um, we
always like Claire's work. Were you a fan of ask Rufus. Yeah, man,
you read everything the credits? No, well, yeah, I mean

(43:26):
I know clear like we're clear stands so or no
no stands stands meaning we're yeah, yeah, shout out to
Eminem stand as in the Eminem terms. It's a nice
way of saying fanatic word near stalker. But uh, you

(43:46):
know any from that, ask Rufus. Record means everything does
and us you know that influenced Prince. That's why Prince
used Claire on his record and stuff. So ask Rufus
hearing that, yes, really, who who was? So? Were you
the one that who was who was the tastemaker of

(44:08):
the group, the one that listened to the most records?
And you know you gotta check this out? Got to
this we all do? We all did? What was your
record collection? Like, nice for stealing my question, I'm sorry
one question. But for us, it was just like our
house was just musical. I mean, it was not a

(44:30):
record We just always I don't know, it was like
we just liked music a lot. And my Mom's like
everybody was. We just we just love music, and um,
it was part of life. It wasn't like, hey, it
wasn't business to us. It was it was a life.

(44:51):
It's our life. So it's something good came out, don't
care what it was. Um, we we liked it, from
country music to to R and B to rock, whatever
it was. I mean we liked. I mean, we appreciated it.
So in general, now I got okay good. My family

(45:17):
it was always I mean, I mean yeah, yeah, I
mean Jackie was all green everything al green, like he
was like, I mean, he was like al green? Was it?
So we always heard we had enough. We had a
lot of all green. Wait, was there just one stereo

(45:38):
in the house. Yeah, yeah, Marantz, marants table, table, and
so Jackie was out all green. Um, Michael was like
Sillis and Croft, the motown stuff. And I was always

(45:58):
like the grooves, Seals and craft. Wait a second, that
was the first. That's the first that came to mind. Yeah,
I mean it's still worse with her name cover. No,
it's no summer. Some sills there breeze, they're not horse Okay,
I'm sorry, Yeah, it makes okay wow, And I always

(46:20):
like more grooves. But because Michael and I roomed together,
he would always take authority over what music would be
playing because I was younger than right. So so it
was like seals and crofts, bread, uh, stuff like that.
So I started to appreciate that stuff. So okay, what
was it about seals and crofts and bread was like harmonies?

(46:42):
That was harmonies and melodies. Somebodies makes me feel wow. Ah.
In America, we all liked America. Okay, America was moody blues.
I used to like, I like, I like boody blues
growing up. Yeah, yeah, okay, and then I love Joni

(47:07):
Mitchell I was a kid in school. Isn't as summerlans
or which Okay, So well that's the one question I forgot.
What is your what's your your Desert Island five albums
like your go to even now like you're um mm hmm,

(47:36):
that's such an unfair questions like a week nowadays because music, Yeah,
it's not because like and I still listen to a
lot of monks like Alonious Monk. I'm just like this.
It was like a genius to me. And I mean
sometimes take back three or four in the Morning's just

(47:57):
on YouTube just watching them because I mean just he
was doing something in his style of doing it with
so unorthodox and with the rings on it, you know,
something like um, I mean, I appreciate a lot of
Stevie those albums, um um monks studio attitude to his

(48:20):
engineer too, is one of my favorite. Moving on Stevie, Stevie,
you're going to tell him about Stevie. Yeah, so that
that that roads back there is is actually Stevie's uh
the roads from Music of My Mind and Talking Book
and was intervisions here as well, those two. Yeah, talking
Book of Musical Yeah, he recorded music with My Mind

(48:44):
and Talking Book here. Steve um is our for I'll say,
twenty years ago, we've been uh in the studio. Uh
start with d'angelo's Voodoo album. So we will watch that
that the Loon Smunk documentary where uh Felonious would be

(49:05):
at the piano, and then he tells TiO his his engineer,
all right, play the tape back, and then he was like,
I didn't record that. Then Thelonious all right, I want
to hear it, and he's like, no, I didn't record it.
Just play it back for me. I didn't record it.
So that's our relationship too. And thelonious hey question, Uh I,

(49:28):
I don't know who I asked this? Uh about the
Doobie Brothers incident, but who was it? Duties were always good,
Duties are good friends of Michael. That's right, Michael was
on the Okay, I forgot who's on the show? Yes,
I've read no, no, no, what I was reading. There's
a there's an old press photo of the Jackson's and

(49:51):
the Dubies on stage and it says like there was
a long lu long train running and shake your body
down to the down mess performance. What was the connection
between the two. Were you the same manager of publicism? Now,
we had mutual friends and the guy that we went
to school with, we grew up with became like their publicists. Okay,

(50:15):
so um so we would go to their shows and
duty's man, they're just a bunch of nice guys, extremely
talented like um not like all their music. Black Water
is one of my favorite songs of theirs. Um but
um yeah, that's how it happened, and um so when

(50:36):
they would perform sometimes I remember I think that photo
you may have a scene was could have been at
the Forum. It seemed like it was at a smaller club. Yeah,
it was like a small I don't know. We had
been on the stage a few times together. Yeah, but
that's just friends. Okay. So speaking of concert, um, oh

(51:04):
hell yeah, because I got a punishment for this thing.
This is one of This is one of two two
Randy punishments for me. Um, who's idea was it for
you to be the daredevil of the group. It wasn't
an idea. It was who I was. Okay, for our

(51:25):
listeners that don't know, Um, I've come. I've changed a
lot lately, thanks to God. No, no, no, I've just
been daredevil. In terms of any time that pyrotechniques or
any explosion was introduced in any Jackson's show, it's usually
at the hands of Randy. And so I'm wondering, like,

(51:48):
is there okay, Like how is it conceptualized? Like, Okay,
I after do this solo, then I'm throw this flash
paper down and this explosion is gonna happen. Um because
the seven year olds watching this, right, And then he
sees his grandmom's speech stick in the bathroom and Dan
near a South Philadelphia house on fire. I think almost

(52:13):
Thanks Randy, I appreciate that. Where did you get this
idea from? I were putting on those shows? I mean,
m was it Doug Hunting, Like who who's the that stuff?
Like duck heating stuff? Um for the powertechnics all that,
we were doing that back in the seventies exactly. So

(52:34):
even when you do did you see were you going
to kids shows or like what was the what was
the genesis of it's I don't just I think that
um as band in the seventies. Back then you want

(52:59):
to kind of open things up. It's a little bit
more exciting, you know. And pustum is also rel Like
I had a lab. I had a lab at home,
chemistry lab. I try to blow stuff, trying to make Wow,
Randy Jackson the Unit bomber. You know, you know those

(53:20):
little chemistry laps for you, right you're talking about right,
So I had one of those, and and you used
to have one of those. Yeah, they don't have those
in my house. They're too dangerous. But back in those
days you get a chemistry lab and make bombs and stuff. Yeah,
but um, you know, um, yeah, that's all that stuff

(53:45):
just we just want to do something different, excite me
a little bit more. Fun and and uh, when you
think about like playing solo, them throw blow up a
bomb and but I'm saying it physically it doesn't make sense.
But no, no, that that's the thing. See it. It
was exciting as hell because even when like I didn't
get to see uh the first to Destiny runs, so

(54:10):
usually it's someone in my class come back and explain it,
like and then the next thing, you know, this explosion
goes off and didn't You're just trying to imagine, like
what is happening on The Jackson Show. But then again
it's like, you know, earth Wind Fire is introducing lasers
and levitation and this stuff, and and parliaments doing theatrics.

(54:31):
Like between the three camps, between the Jackson's, the p
Funk and the Calmed the earth Winning Fire camp, there
was like a rush to who can out theatrics each other?
And so was that a thing where you guys like
going to did you never go to p func shows
and be like, yo, Spaceship and earth Win and Fire

(54:53):
they have the theatrics. And we were a huge earth
Win and Fire fans just a musicianship and Larry down
there just huge fans of theirs. And I would just
go in the studio, just watch them, just watch watch, watch, watch,
and the original eight Keys just stuck to wait too soon.

(55:16):
I'm sorry, idiot, I don't mean that you would just
show the people like it's weird, like albums that you
know that our landmark or whatever. You're just hey, I'll
show upen in yeah and visit like how many what
what landmark sessions have you were witnessed too that you

(55:37):
didn't know at the time, Like I was there when
another other friends of ours for Total when they were
making Strong Africa, Right, yeah, mixing it up? Is there?
Those dudes are like so talented, great people, great guys.
They went to receive a high school, which was like
a round around the corner from the school that we
went to. But they were just very talented people. Okay,

(55:59):
this is the fourth time you managed in school. So
even after moving to l A, you guys were still
in a regular high school experience. Yes, how does that happen?
Because we're not how does it happen? Like when we
were off a tour, we went to regular school. When
we toured, we had teachers that travel with us tutors.

(56:23):
It was an issue. It was a little bit of
an issue, but we were able to get it done,
so it wasn't thing like I mean, did it feel awkward,
like okay, now we're going to try normalcy for a second.
And it was an issue you know, the girls get
with the girls. I didn't even get to that part. Yeah, uh,

(56:50):
we're there like bullies in you. I'm going to beat
up at Jackson today. Yes, the jealousy and the Senate.
So how do you how do you navigate I mean
just general safety. How do you navigate safety and be
normal because it's like you're either going to just stay

(57:12):
behind the gates of haven her right or that's what
it was. I really want to go see Rocky too
at the movie theater And is it like you have
to wear a hat or yeah? I think? Um do
I call you Stephen in high school and we're in
the beginning, like we kind of didn't realize the normity
of the success until we came home and you go

(57:35):
to the market and you go to the stories and
people look at your following and taking pictures and all that,
and then you start to realize, you know, even in
your private life, you know, it's it's it's still that
you started thinking, Wow, it's kind of weird, but but yeah,
it was. It was that element was there and that's
all part of it. Thought. It was like, that's what

(57:58):
it is. You know, this is what you sign up for. Yeah,
I get it, what you sign up for? All right?
Quick second punishment? All right? Good? Yeah? Yes, every time, Yes,

(58:20):
I remember, I'll never forget this story. And my brothers
they were here. If my brothers were in this room,
I wasn't they tell you this story because I love it. Um.
We had Donnish a couple of nights at the forum
I think it was, and I was what year I
was ten years old? I think Okay, I was very young,

(58:43):
so looking through the windows periods and came home. My
mom's sister, Okay, Renny, it's your turn to take out
the garbage. They're not. I'm just I've been on the
stage in front of eighteen thousand people. I'm coming home

(59:06):
and she's telling to take out the garbage. So I said,
I said, Mom, I have fans, right right, you know
where this is going. You know how your parents just
give you that look. My father's he stops eating, you know,

(59:32):
and they just give you that look. I said, my
I have fans now I said, why don't we just
call my fan club? Yeah, my mom, she says, she says,
are you serious? One of those looks. I'm like, okay, okay, yeah,

(59:54):
yeah yeah. So we did them. We did him after
a huge six sporture, we come home, rip the leaves,
take out the garbage, and do the dishes. That was it.
So the division of of of domestic labor was still
in effect. Yeah man, okay, all right, speaking of parents

(01:00:17):
and punishments, the second one, okay, so, uh watching Soul
Train timth anniversary show, Um, Randy is playing what I
believe is the fine line between what a key tar
is and a very miniature of roads on a guitar strap. Yeah. Um,

(01:00:43):
so I get the bright idea. That's before they had keyboards. Yeah,
I know, I know, and so um I was like,
you know, that's I wanted to play that, and so
um I go to my dad's keyboard players walletzir no, yeah,
and I take the lakes off the walletzer. Was it heavy?

(01:01:08):
Well I was eight at the time, so yeah, it
was kind of heavy, and uh yeah I dropped that
walletzer and that was the one. Yeah that that was
a bad punishment. All I remember was the day I
tried to discuss like I dropped the walletzer because I
couldn't figure out like how to put the guitar started

(01:01:32):
like there was nothing on the side. So I was like,
all right, I'll just carry it, and I dropped it.
And uh, I just remember like my punishments were, you know,
were besides beside the belt, Yeah, there was there. There
was Carporro punishment, but then we're really hit at home

(01:01:53):
was either no soul train or music. And central heating
was out that year, Like I just got central heating
by heat Wave and they took my average white band
and my central heating away from me. And so thanks
for Anny, I appreciate that. Sorry, that's not his fault. Man. Yeah,

(01:02:19):
he just made a look so cool man. I was
just like, okay, wait, so what was it? Because that
wasn't a key tar? No, was it a roads or
what was it? No? That was that? What was that? That?
That was? I remember that because because I also used

(01:02:41):
it on Dick Clark band stand all the Destiny sord
like that was your yeah, stand up roads, you know,
we we we we have these techies. That that was
particularly was something that was made for me and U
uh yeah, to play, but but well I ad to

(01:03:01):
buy that that one was was the what was the
bottom portion? Rights? Cool? Uh? I see, I see now?
Um yeah, I was like that it must have been
heavy to play and dance too, but made effortless and
it wasn't effortless at all. Um, we gotta ask about

(01:03:25):
how can I be sure and love song for kids?
All right? So you made a single right before this
destiny and so what was what was the initial plan? Uh?
As far as were you actively trying to pursue a
full recording album or I think, um the vision of

(01:03:50):
my father with all of us, even with Janet. He
was always trying to get us to do things on
our own and solo career and Janet and that, and
so you wanted me to make a song? How can
I be sure? Um? And that's how that happened. Do
you want to do solo stuff or were you comfortable?

(01:04:12):
Because I know that I've always come. I've I've always
been like I like being in the back. Um, I
like writing and creating. I'm all about music. I just
want to do the music. Yeah, and I love performing. Um,
you mean the camera part of it, like the cameras

(01:04:34):
it's okay, but I mean I don't hate it. But
it's all about where we are right now. Yeah, man,
that's what I like. So you prefer studios because because
I can enjoy music at home as much as I could.
For me, I can enjoy music at home, playing it,
writing it almost as much as being on the stage.
I mean like it means I just like it. You know,

(01:04:56):
by the time I wake up, I go to bed.
I mean, I'm still a fan of music. Okay. You know. Um,
speaking of which, um the Triumph album question number one?
Who engineered that record? A guy named Bill he was.

(01:05:22):
I'm gonna tell you he engineered earthmen and fire. That's
why we chose him. I'm trying to get it. Fully, men,
I gotta look at the credits. I've never thought of
it from that why. Okay, So because engineers are great.
Shut shout out to Rusty, shout out to Bill. Um. No, No,

(01:05:43):
only because okay, engineer. So I'm his engineer. Yeah. So,
in in my in my pursuit of I collect stems
now and well previously, when I was teaching at n
y U, I use stems to demonstrate for the class.
So the thing is, when I got the Triumph stems

(01:06:07):
and started doing my rough mixes. Um, I don't know.
I feel like the equeuing that I did brought more
life to it, made it more fuller sounding and whatnot.
And then when I was listening to the originals, I
was like, why does this sound so compressed? And and

(01:06:28):
so I always wanted to know what the process was
in making the Triumph record. Now now I also realized
that one thing I didn't taken to consideration is that, um,
you're only given sixteen minutes aside of a record because
there's a lot of edits. I didn't even know there
was the API console I remember, so yeah, those eques

(01:06:55):
almost very punchy signing console the old APIs and m H,
but also can be a little mid ranging also m
HM in the middle not really after mid ranging and
bottom me not and the highs so um, but m

(01:07:18):
so makes the intracted one on an API. Okay, I see,
So it's not necessarily overcompressed. It's just maybe just dark, right,
it's dark definitely. Um. Actually with both of those records, Um,
the same engineer on both of the records that you
call Destiny and Triumph. Yeah, so speak of of Greg

(01:07:43):
filling games and how he was brought into the fold.
How was it you guys pursuing him with the label
saying hey we want be Okay, Um, it's funny because
like the songs that I wrote, Greg, Greg can play
them back than me, which is great. He made he
made him sound great. I was like, cool, I'm with it.

(01:08:05):
But um, were you tracking your songs as far as
and something like some stuffing, Um like don't stop you
get enough, like we tracked that stuff just like that,
those demos. There's demos for the other stuff up if
you worked on off the wall as well. Okay, okay,
so um I'll get you some of those demos. So

(01:08:27):
stuff you want to hear, definitely okay. Um yeah, we
would always track it like that, but um, we wanted
to bring someone like Greg and um two Um Greg
was played with Stevie and all that kind of stuffy

(01:08:48):
but he had just he hadn't he hadn't been with
Stevie a long time and um, but we brought him
in and uh he's been he's been with our family,
um ever since then. Okay, Um. I was gonna say
the the unorthodox rhythm nature of shake your Body down
to the ground was such a risk, and it was

(01:09:10):
a risk in nine um in Vierra Disco where it's
just like four in the floor and bpms, whereas shake
your Body Down, in my opinion, is more of a
high powered funk song than a disco song. And because

(01:09:32):
there's no definite one as far as the drums, like
for some reason like history showing that the drums are
supposed to establish where the one was. Were there any
concerns like yo, we're putting on our eggs in this basket.
And because when in on the on the on the stems,

(01:09:54):
Ed Green is drumming, right, yeah, Barry White drummer, Yeah,
I didn't had that sound like that, right. But here's
the funny thing. So at the very beginning, there's there's
in the in the pre roll of of of those
stems for twenty seconds, I hear you and your brother
Michael at ed Green's bruth saying don't do any feels,

(01:10:20):
just keep it straight, no fiels, and you hear him
say got it, no fills, And I was like, WHOA,
that's that's that's weird to hear. And the thing is
that his track alone made it, made it disco. And
this is without hearing the overdubs of the tom toms
in the in the Hyatt. So in the final mix

(01:10:43):
when it turns out to be what it was and
it's it's a revolutionary a ship. Were there any concerns?
It was just like the ajournaline of the song, like, yo,
there's nothing like this and and let's go with it.
Let's with the risk. You know. It's interesting because we

(01:11:05):
always felt special about that song. It's like it just
had that thing on it. And um, I remember putting
at on that song when we when we did the track, um,
because um um. And he he has he has a

(01:11:29):
signature sound, you know what I'm talking about. This He
is with a kick, you know, and it's kind of
a lazy kick. But it's but but it's better, it's
but better worked. And but that drum beat was was
was a little bit um awkward to say. And but no,

(01:11:50):
I know like a lot of drummers appreciate that. They
al would say, Man, that drum beat. Now all the
drummers play that beat. But um, at the time where
you can earned when it was too much of a risk.
We thought about that a little bit because it was
it wasn't it was it was right. It wasn't defined

(01:12:10):
right right it was it wasn't for on the floor
and I had them I'm two and four but um
but on two and four but it um. It was
a little bit of a risk, but we were confident
in the song of it, like like like the song

(01:12:32):
and it was just a groove to us. It was
just it was just a groove. What was Sony's reaction
to it when you played it to them, where they're like, okay,
this is it? Or were they too like, hey, this
needs to be three minutes and there's no hook, I
mean there's no bridge and the drums are all over
the place like where they initially was Bobby like, uh,

(01:12:54):
we don't know. No, they they liked that song a
lot and they and they we like things that do
for You. That was a groove to us. And uh,
quick question, how much of influence was Jupiter on that
song Things to Do for You? Yes, Jupiter by Earth
Wind and Fire. Uh that's interesting because I wanted to

(01:13:18):
know why the five minutes later in the fifteen seconds
later correlation between the two songs. But you know what,
it's funny because it's like for me, all right, winning
fire like at the time. I didn't realize it would
just come out of me that way, like even like

(01:13:38):
something like All Night Dancing that if you listen to
the Icy Brothers. But I was just I was just
I was listening to a lot of Icy then. So
you like like that for the world. I never never
thought that till right now, Harvest for the world? Right ship?
It is all right now I'm gonna listening to it
a whole different right right right mind, So all those

(01:14:02):
things were like influences. Oh Ship, due, I never all
right four years later now I'm now I'm just getting
four years lay now I get it. Damn, this is
this is literally why he started this show to find
out something like exactly like that, Oh Ship. That's crazy, Okay,

(01:14:30):
I have more Destiny questions. Okay. Another thing, speaking of
the title track of Destiny, Um, whenever these songs are
performed on shows, when you guys are promoting them, there's
always that slow motion moment, which again in post production.

(01:14:52):
When you're watching it, it's like the craziest shit ever.
But I can only imagine how much leeway are you
guys given to before you make these appearances or a
midnight special Orange Soldier in or American Bandstand or Sunny
and Sue or whatever. The the production techniques of of

(01:15:17):
the show, like for me, just just to control our
mix on Letterman was like a nightmare, like can we
please eque our things? And can we do that? You
guys are doing actual production like jumping in slow motion
and all these things that it wasn't easy. I know this,

(01:15:37):
How did you guys? I get your question. It wasn't easy.
It's like fighting for what we wanted to do and
a lot of times you know, they don't want to
do it, but we fought hard. We fought hard for it, yo,
because it was happening end of the time. Where I'm
not saying that you guys didn't have leverage, but you know,

(01:16:01):
these these even when we're watching on YouTube now, these
things like videos, and I always wanted to know what
was the conversation that granted you the open door to Okay,
this particular part, you're gonna slow it down and we're
all gonna jump. It's gonna look silly now, but when
you do it in slow motion, it's gonna look crazy. Yeah,

(01:16:24):
even like the video was one of the first music
videos made was can you feel it right. Well, actually
blame it on the boogie Ye're reflection thing that scared
the ship out of me as a kid, like you
literally scared Whose concept was that? Um? Did they come

(01:16:45):
to you? Guys? Look we have this new reflective sometimes,
Um how long did it take to shoot that? A day?
But a lot of times, Um, mikeel what however these
crazy ideas they want to do? And then we talk
about it. You know, he sell us on it and
we were like, that's really cool. Then we all fight
for but they didn't. But a lot of these guys

(01:17:06):
didn't want to do that, you know, and um, but
we fight for it. We don't have to fight for it.
And sometimes you've had to fight for a lot sometimes
just what's normal to us now exactly it's it's normal now,
But back in those days you have the fight world.
But keep in mind back in those days, like there
was no relationship between television and music. In those days,

(01:17:29):
it was separate. Now it's all kind of together. You
you want to watch the show, you watch it every
runs on YouTube or something like that. It's like everything is.
It's all social media, it's all communicating song some of
them and those days things it's more compartmentalized, attle bit separate. Yeah,
because I feel as though if I would have done that,

(01:17:50):
I would have been talked out of it. Like, look, man,
we an't got a budget. You're asking for a lot
just going there and performing and get out there. Yeah,
pretty much. Um So with with the Triumph record, uh
you yeah, you're you're you're sharing lead with Mike on

(01:18:15):
on can you feel It? Yeah? You know that song,
he says. We're talking about songs. Let me know, drop
the Bond. I love the song the BGS made called Tragedy.
And if you listen to tragedy un June d June
dinging tune ingun or somebody ching ching ting ting ting

(01:18:38):
ting ting ting ting. H Okay, that's how it came
to be. You Mike wrote that together and Jackie damn. Okay,
I see, I see. I'm sorry people. I'm I'm like
using all my poor brain right yeah. Man, I'm just

(01:18:59):
like at the time when you're creating that, I'm not
thinking tragedy. Now and now that I'm older, I think
it back, well, that sounds like harvest for the world.
I wasn't thinking about it then it just came out
of me. Naturally because those were my influences, you know, dude.

(01:19:20):
I mean that's how it is. I mean hip hop
is more blatant about it because you literally sample it.
But I mean, like most songs are the ideas of
other songs. I mean, James Brown just did the ideas
of his own songs. He was his own source. But
pretty much, um, Jesus Christ, that is mind blowing to

(01:19:41):
me because yeah, I now see because tragedy in my mind,
tragedies like three horses running in the wild, and it's
a little about it, but it's like very triumphant do
exactly exactly? So was this creating? It was this created

(01:20:01):
thinking that, Okay, when we do this in concert, this
is going to be our flag planet. This is going
to be our our opening. Can you feel it? Always
the opening in the clothes? Always shake your back, I see,
I see, yeah, man, And we'll be right back after quest.
Those brain recollaculates. So even even though even though triumph

(01:20:30):
is quote produced by the Jackson's like, who's who's holding
of the weight? Who's like someone has to be the
alpha to be like, okay, make these decisions or is
it always and the five of you and I can't
imagine that the five of you were just damn agreeable. Um,

(01:20:52):
someone has to be like, I don't like that idea.
When we were when we were produced Michael's vocal, the
rest of us in the studio producing this vocal ground.
That's how it was really Yeah, So it wasn't It
wasn't like one or two of us, because it's interesting
because no, it was all of us in that room
and Jackie can hear line, or I could hear something,

(01:21:13):
or we hear so now a lot of times Michael
and I would create the song, we write the song,
but it's all of us collectively that made it magic.
I see, Um, I got an exit, not exit from
the studio. But I think we should mention what what
is the the preparation period of your shows and your

(01:21:38):
performances the concerts? I mean, um, well in general, like
was there regular? Was it? Like? Okay, Thursday and Friday
nights are five hours in the room rehearsing dance steps?
Like how are you guys? How are house choreography? So
when you guys are are prepping choreography and let's start

(01:22:07):
with choreography first of all? Is that a long? Yes? Yes,
it's a long because the thing about it is like
I didn't really want to dance and moves, but Michael
always wanted me to because I just wanted to play
instruments and sing and play like I know, I'm ready,
you gotta move, Come on, you can dance it okay.
But but like we're like like to this day, Uh,

(01:22:35):
like our work ethic hasn't changed, like Janet when Janet
and I think a lot of a lot of her
dancers are always surprised, like when she gets ready to
go on tour the way she works as the way
we work twenty seven years ago. I mean, it's like
it hasn't changed. And I think that's that's like um
we we we you know, it's like we take it
seriously and we break for lunch and dinner, but we

(01:22:57):
is every day all day and and to tell us right,
and uh, we take it seriously so literally for our
I mean, just give me a rough number and the
turn you wake up, break for lunch, break for dinner,
in time you go to sleep the next day, even

(01:23:19):
post I mean assuming that not childhood where you know,
like Motown and your father whoever is watching rehearsals, but
assuming that you guys were just doing this on your
own as adults into the Destiny Triumphant. It was just yeah,
straight rehearsals. And I would think would they be separated?

(01:23:44):
I mean, would it be like, Okay, this is for
boreography and this is for music and this is for
harmony like normally I would I would start with music
first and being in the band, and we started going
with the music separately. So Jonathan Moffatt and was it
McKenny and all those guys, man, these are l A
heavyweights man, y'all, y'all build. Jonathan Marfa was a kid

(01:24:06):
who seventeen years old? Was he sixteen? Seventeen? He was
seventeen from Newton? From New Orleans? When did he join
you guys? What year was that? What year was that?
So you know him? I met him twice in my life.
But yeah, so he was seventeen when he first started. Yes, okay,

(01:24:31):
so he walked in. He's you know, he's cool. He
was real cool and he wears pants a real high
he had some shining James Brownson shoes and he was relaxed,
like this dude is too cool to play drums, you know,
he said on the drums and it was like, yeah,
I can play. He plays hard. He saw it. He's
a great concert player. Also h David Williams David Yeah.

(01:24:59):
And about him, yeah, like where did he come from?
His David with scis guitar players just like he's like
a machine. Where is he from anything about it? He's
from Virginia. He's from uh uh West Virginia. David Williams, Okay,
how long when did he join you guys? What is

(01:25:21):
it like? Nor like North focus something like that? He started?
David william was he had a hit song out what
with Don't hold Back if it feels good, too bad,
Don't hold back in a group or in sean song

(01:25:44):
the uh Sean? So yeah, he had a little little dude,
little dude where that hold back if it feels good?
Damn anything? Bill so um but David, Yeah, it's he

(01:26:09):
can play. His rhythm is so precise. At one point
his plane adds a flavor to every track. It's like
it's just at that little thing that that makes it right.
And you notice he always had those guitar licks and
all our tracks like amazing musician. So you're two, I

(01:26:35):
know that um wolf really right? You want discuss right
now should how much? How much is so right on
the song Don't Hold Back? Is that it? Damn? Okay,

(01:27:04):
it's there yeah, Chanson Choan song. Chanson, Yes, but they
said Chance cho song. We gotta get that. Yeah, damn.
Um so, I know Bill Woofer and uh who was
the the tech not? Uh? Ah? Greg mentioned him? What

(01:27:29):
Jame jameson j James jameson Jr. Wow, Wow, the one
in eighty three is that we gotta peep that ship?
Wait my cop one for me to thank you. We're recordpping,

(01:27:52):
we're record sopping it. Interviewer Mandy right now? Sorry? Um
so with uh with with the with the band and
were you so you would conduct rehearsals in your the
okay music and then and then the brothers at the

(01:28:13):
same time We'll be singing and doing choreography and I
go back and forth. So we have it right with
the animusch we haven't just put it together there it is,
I see, okay, good. I'm I'm maybe going a little
out of sequence here or maybe I'm not um the
choices of the album titles. I'm sorry, I know you're

(01:28:33):
talking about love, but um, triumph, victory, destiny was this? Uh?
Was this some kind of a marketing scheme, like we're
you know, we're gonna just call this thing Victory and
and you know, hope it becomes number one or where
was that? Just it's a very it's a very good.
It's a very good. We always sit around and we

(01:28:56):
want to make albums and they have to do with
positive thinking and power and just accomplishment and things like that.
So they're all like, we're gonna stand on this one
foot Stone who conceptualized the album covers and um because

(01:29:21):
it was like the black version of like Blue Oyster
coult Like, yeah, that's CBS Records, Okay, but we you know,
it's funny because what are Motown influence? We all we
all sort of love rock music a lot. Yeah, I
was gonna say, because even now you're just like, yeah,
I went to do he's gone. I went to like

(01:29:44):
you were just open to growing up in Hollywood heels,
you know, I mean, I used to walk home from
school and George Harris living like a botas at the time,
and that seems big white rose ys and give me
a ride up to the house where we live below
and he top So and and Bowie and all those guys.

(01:30:08):
They were all those days. Everybody was around the same area,
you know, so we just how could you not be
influenced about it? You know, how could that not happen? Wow,
that's crazy. There's something that just hit me right now
that I totally missed. And the way that Ebony and
Jet covered this, it was like I remember seeing girls

(01:30:31):
like crying to the knees. You gotta tell me what
happened with the car accident in night? What happened? Only
the first time I've heard the Jaws of life, like
the way that Randy Jackson escapes the Jaws of Life,
and like, yeah, they have these hydraulic scissors that cut
their car and havoc. Get me out, um, because I

(01:30:55):
am like the Daredevil. And I moved out when I
was seventeen, okay, And that was like my brothers can
believe that I talked to my parents into that you
didn't have to get married or anything. You just moved out.
And I moved out. And basically I told him I'm
always said, look I move I want to move out.

(01:31:16):
She's like, what, So, IM want my own place. Some
mom gonna be a TM wanna do it anyway? It's
like I want to live with my fan club. You
got the last word on the garbage. So so, um

(01:31:38):
I did. I moved out, and uh I stay. I'm
staying the oak Wood Garden, the odening the oak Wood
Departments from Burbank. Every band has stayed there in l A.
I know where Burbank is, Yeah, Garden Departments. And uh
I was staying there. And I remember I was watching
the Super Bowl and I want to see the Rams.

(01:32:01):
It just lost to the Pittsburgh Steelers, Okay, and I
was hungry. Yes, I'm sorry Pittsburgh fan, but good Yeah,
me too. I have his jersey. Yeah damn. Then but
then he didn't like it because I dated his ex
wife later, but but at the time I didn't know it.

(01:32:23):
I didn't know. He's a great guy. Okay. So anyway, um,
I was hungry and it was raining like crazy, so
I'm like, it's nothing. The house I was gonna go
down to go over to the market, gets up to
eat and I'm driving. It's it's at some Mercedes and

(01:32:44):
m it just hit this pothole and starts spinning. It
just crashed near the Hollywood Bowl, right there where the
Hollywood Bowl is, and UH car was on fire and YadA, YadA, YadA.
And it's so funny because my parents had some friends
over and they had been over late hanging out, and um,

(01:33:08):
they were driving home and my mom said, Okay, call
us when you get home because it's raining out. I
want to make sure you get home safe. To their friends,
they said okay, So he he goes home. He caused
my mom and he goes and so we made it home.
He goes, we just saw the worst car accident. Yeah,
he's like, I hope that I hope that person is okay,
but it doesn't. It doesn't look good. My mother was

(01:33:29):
really it was yeah, damn yo man when that news. Wait,
where were you born? A right? You see you're like
one dog. Yeah it was yeah. The day that ship hit.
It's one of those things change in life because like

(01:33:50):
a flatlined and stopped breathing and they had to put
those those are to resuscitate you. Ye. So it was
that serious. Yeah, I was that serious. Yeah, So how
did you manage your walk? Because I think I had
to learn how to walk all over again. I was
I was paralyzed literally wild chair bound or crutches bound, worldchair,

(01:34:13):
and I had to start with the pickup one. I
remember it's Magic Johnson just started with the Lakers at
the time, and and I went to Dr Curlin, who's
the trainer was for the Lakers, to the whole medical
facility there and that's where IVER see a physical therapy.

(01:34:37):
I learned how to walk. So the time they're telling you,
you're pretty much not gonna walk back until I never
walk again. Wait the time lapse between eighty and the
recording of the album and finding because it's our Yeah,

(01:34:59):
I mean you're wrestling with your brothers on stage before
you explode them again. That's that said. Yeah, that's crazy.
After each one of those shows, I was like taking
an ice bath. So you were in pain during the
Trump show. Yeah, it was paying you dance your ass off, Yeah,

(01:35:21):
but it's it was. It was painful. So I was
like that swollen as ice and its back. Randy Jackson.
I just thought, Yeah, in my mind, I was just like, wow,
it's a miracle, like he's back. But not knowing that, yeah,
oh de man, hats off man, that is that is crazy.

(01:35:44):
Um wait, did we trust me? There's no way I
will let my brothers leave me. It's like, we gonna
figure this out. Oh yeah, was that even a question?
Where is it? Just like, okay, well I brought the
physical therapist with me on tour. All right. So we
had on tour and I was like, there's no way

(01:36:07):
I'm gonna meet this happen. You made it happen. Yeah,
I mean you're doing the one mind. I'm playing like
the working day and night twisty thing and or the
twisty piano. No, just do the jumping thing. And I'm like,
you're okay, you you did it. Um? What was your

(01:36:30):
of the tours that you've done with your brothers? What
was your favorite? M hm um, the tour before the
Destiny tour in my head, so there's a Victory, there's Triumph,

(01:36:57):
there's Destiny Part two which sort of like kind of
off the wall, and then there's the Destiny tour that yeah,
um um, the Destiny Try. Like Stacy Lattis, I was,
I think opening up for us that you were there. Yeah,

(01:37:23):
Triumph Try and Fit one was really nice. I enjoyed
that tour. LTD was that's right. LTD was okay. So
Jeffrey was on our show, and I always wanted to
know usually with opening acts and big production, it's problematic,

(01:37:45):
especially with technology being the way it was and lt
D being a damn near eleven member group. Uh, how nightmare?
How much of a nightmare scenario is it when acts
are opening for you guys and it's okay, we have
to kill our set and bring there. You know. It's
always been with my brothers, with us some towards always

(01:38:07):
like family, you know, so that was never an issue.
And but l t D they has to come around
house and hang out all the time anyway, So Osborne
his brother, they would just come to the house. My
mom makes food everybody. I'm like, were you guys school
with the Osmond's like, yeah, that's to come up to

(01:38:29):
my mom make food for everybody. He's like family. Yeah,
all right, can you name one act that you guys
were just like, I don't know to VARs, y'all go
back to Boston? Yeah, actually, what what were there relations
with any other other bands your your age? Because I

(01:38:51):
think of the Five Stair Steps or the Silver's friends
come over it all the time back in the day,
Silver's to Leon glean just to me on the other day.
Great people, talented man, that's really good, great humble guy.
Huh yeah, absolutely, absolutely so just you guys were switchling.

(01:39:15):
I'm not to say Stockholm War was uh geneva. I'm sorry,
thank you, You're welcome, thank you, thank you, Steve. See,
you guys were just neutral zone. There was never a
a competition like no, we gotta know we you know
those are whenever we toured, like LaBelle opened up for us.

(01:39:39):
We were kids. And even with Patty it's like patty
S debraided our hair. Patties debraided me and Michael. You
can't before we went on stage those back in those days,
I was gonna say maintaining a Patty could do hair
and she did, you know, she did like she cooked too.
Wait what do you again? Great story though, thanks. No

(01:40:06):
one has the braid hair to keep their after a
full so you guys would have to do that as well.
This is one of the rare times where my afro
is out normally just talking to make it through life
or whatever, like I braid it. Okay, yeah, so okay,
So even so there was corn roll Eric Jackson. Now

(01:40:33):
we have those big dukie braids, so you know, I
see that's how, that's how the Okay, that's good to
know because I just thought like, oh, you guys woke
up like this like like full afro every day, no BedHead, no, yeah,
little did I know? Okay, I see that. Um. So
the period, the post the post triumph period that lead

(01:41:00):
eats uh to the victory tour. Um that during that
time it was a really fun time, like from triumph
to victory, that whole so between eighty one and yeah,
because you had that off the wall the um were
you part of any of the pre production of what

(01:41:22):
will become thriller? Only because uh, who's his name? Steve Geneva?
Shut up? Steve? Um? What's his name? What's his name?
All rights? He used to have h like a like
urban report is Steve Ivory? I think it's Steve Ivory.

(01:41:46):
Steve Ivory? No, but he was like an apprince under
le Bailey. Alright, so this kathem Steve Ivory? Does this? Uh?
I know it's Steve Ivvery's a one. Yeah. Well okay,
so we he's at Encino and in the studio with

(01:42:06):
you guys. This is pre this is like, what is
this sady one? So I'm assuming that this is what's
leading to be well yeah, because he says specifically for
Michael's new solo records, so thrillers not even a thought,
but what will become that? And it's the article is

(01:42:26):
more about the technology that they're discovering. And I believe
that a lyn drum first makes its appearance in this thing.
And so he's like describing like you know, now a
drummer is inside a machine and not needed for da
da da da. And like reading this, I'm like, yo,
like the Jackson's have some futuristic just naming these like synthesizers,

(01:42:49):
and someone I don't know if you are, I don't
know who the engineer was at Havenhurst at the time
I was working. He was like, well, one day, uh,
you know, they'll they'll invent machines that will correct your singing,
and every one in the rooms like no, that would
be the end of music. And da da da da da.
But if I could find this article, it's almost like

(01:43:11):
you guys are talking about what's going to happen in
forty years in music but joking like that will never happen.
But you know in those days, I mean yes, I
mean like like I said, like, we didn't really think
about like, um, if I was doing something, I need
the base part, Jamaine. But you don't come and play
this part real quick. It's like, that's what it was like.

(01:43:33):
So even after he left the group, he was still
active and okay, uh that's how it was. And yeah, wow,
we wouldn't really we just it's just what it was.
Can can you tell those of us who don't know
every single thing about you already? Um what what your

(01:43:55):
contributions were to off the Wall? Um? Uh? Yeah? Credited, noncredited, noncredited.
Come on, now we know what time it is. Well,
first of all, I mean you're there. We've heard the
work of Day Night demo. That was hilarious, by the way. Yeah,

(01:44:19):
was it always like that? So see how my playing
struggle like like I could hear these parts in my head.
That's you playing that line but playing them it's like
walking true and come I can hit the base too.
And the same thing with don't stoping? Do do do
do Do? Do? Do? Do do do do? So this time,

(01:44:41):
can I assume that he's singing you what he hears
in his head? Who Michael Michael would sing? Mike Michael
didn't know chords. Okay, so he uh singing to you,
singing singing? Um the melody? What he would be like
and I try to create. Yeah, so that's how it happened.
I see, Yeah, we the credit thing, yeah yeah, but

(01:45:07):
but it was but it was like, my whole thing
is like percussion. And were those coke bottles? Yeah, percussion
And but I also played percussion on the keyboards like
my thought in those days. And I didn't realize it
at the time, but it was very percussive in a way.
It's just the grooves, right, yeah. Yeah, they were heavy

(01:45:30):
on and coke bottles. Yeah, okay, And I remember because
when they went to record that song in the studio,
for some reason, they couldn't recreate that saying groove. Even
though demos aren't perfect, they often have a feel that

(01:45:51):
you just can't can't recreate. Do you get demo artists? Yeah? So, um,
how came how came I win the studio and I
brought in my bottles and and and that's what we
did on on the song and then it had that

(01:46:13):
swing to it. So that's you pulling into the cost Okay,
I see, I see. Um. How of of all of
your siblings, who are you the closest, Like Jannet and
I always been close because really little you're like you'd
be hard pressed to find a find a photograph a

(01:46:35):
family shop that I'm in. The Janet is not somewhere
near me. She like followed me around. We'd fight like
cats and dogs, but couldn't stand it away from each other.
Same time me, Janet and Michael was pretty much a
click because the three youngest we hung out all together
all the time. And then Germaine and Tito clicks because

(01:46:59):
they play guitars, were clicks. Jackie kind of did his
own thing and monitored his own thing, but he had
their main Tito was kind of a click because the
whole guitar thing, and you know with to Walton with
John McClean, went the same school and all that kind
of stuff. Another, Yeah, I got it, just like the

(01:47:20):
night John McClean episode, All right, John, let me get
you one day, pal trust me. Um, So for I
know that there weren't immediate plans after uh the Triumph album,
So the preparation for motewn what what was that into?

(01:47:44):
What was that? Like? It's funny because um, when we
did town, did you have a relationship with Susanne to
pass to that of your brothers? Like, but I didn't
know I was gonna be doing that show until the
day of that show. Wait what wait? What wasn't expected

(01:48:07):
that I didn't know it to the data show. Um
doing that show, I was wasted out of my mind
from dental surgery and you can probably know him. Right
after that, we did USA for Africa, and I was
and I was still recovering from dental surgery, like I
had a serious operation, and I was like loopy, really yeah,

(01:48:32):
And but I wouldn't get that show did the other one?
So I see, Uh, the preparation the Victory album for
me feels more destroyed it as in, here's our solo
projects on this one album. So I'll ask about your
song the and and also Austin asked me to ask

(01:48:53):
you about Phil Collins reaction to One More Chance. He
also said he probably won't tell you, but ask him anyway.
He told me two questions to ask you he wanted to.
He said that you were in the car with Michael
when Michael first her When Doves Cry in the Roll's voice.
He said, tell the When Doves Cry World's Words story

(01:49:14):
and the Phil Collins One More Chance story. No, let's awesome,
it's amazing. Um. Yeah, well, when when you know when
One More Night came out, I got a phone call

(01:49:34):
from then CBS um and they wanted to sue Wait wait,
he was trying to come at you. No, CBS wanted
to sue Collins. So one More Night because when night
came out, after out, after ship. Okay, but I had
heard from Nathan East. Yeah, Nathan, he's told me. So

(01:49:56):
answered me that Phil Collins really loved One More Chance.
He loved that. That's like his favorite song. He played
it all the time. And one time I was in
uh a long time when I was in rex Hall Pharmacy,
you know the one on the corner of Lasianagat and Beverly.
You've seen it, I don't, right across in the Beverly Center,
and Phil Pollins walked in. We're in the same out

(01:50:20):
and he goes down, Hey, you're hey, you're in this?
Say hey, yeah, you're Phil Collins because yeah, and he goes, um, yeah, no,
I'm sorry, that was me syd it. You guys are funny.
That's good. So jesus, uh you're like the tune One

(01:50:41):
More Chance? I go, yeah, here's yeah, it's nice tune.
Is that like it? And then he said he has
a song coming up. That's that was influence by that
He's He's a I mean that's that album face value, man.
I played that album for one okah man, I played

(01:51:02):
that album forever years and they have tonight. Yeah when
the first County is brilliantly talent guy, But I told
you has no, you're not gonna suits just music. Uh,
first of all, there's major similarities in the in the music.

(01:51:22):
But second of all, it's called one More Night. I mean,
I know, but if you're gonna steal something, change the
fucking title more than that, you know, like more let
me tell you something. But for me, it's like it's
just music. It's not mine that came from. But the

(01:51:43):
production to like the background vocals, um in the reverb choice,
it's it's very perspective. It's very influenced. But I'm not
saying one more chance of favorite. Going on the victory album,
what really thank You? Yeah, it should have been contender.

(01:52:13):
I brought what made her? What made her want to
do that? That's always been her favorite song. Yeah, it's
it should have been contender, man, it should have been contender.
What were you? Why didn't you say that? For you're solo?

(01:52:35):
I mean, I don't know. It's kind of weird because
it's like when you're in the Jackson's you have to
keep the legacy and the brand alive. But by that point,
you guys are all stars, and even in my mind,
I'm like, yo, this would have been this would have
been a highlight on his solo record. Uh, I don't know.

(01:52:57):
It was like it was the song ever ready at
that particular time. How come I wasn't a single? It's
a good question because because because when CBS wanted to
sue Phil, I said no, I said, I don't. I
don't want to be involved with suing somebody over song.

(01:53:19):
You know, Um, it should have been a single, so
don't you know you don't don't soon? Yeah right he
he recognized it as a good song, So all right, exactly, Um,
how why weren't any of the songs ever performed on
the tour? What song? Any of the songs on the victory? Um?

(01:53:43):
You know what, that's a very good question because after
that tour was over, I had a thought to myself,
why don't we record any of the songs from Victory? Yeah? Alright, Orchard,
I mean it would have been you know, yeah, I

(01:54:06):
thought maybe perhaps like you guys were translating the Triumph
Tour for the bigger audience that well, yeah, had come
into had come into play. When when prepping that tour,
was it just an unspoken thing like this has to
be the biggest thing ever, like we have to out

(01:54:28):
do literally anyone that's ever. It's funny because and it's
so weird because in hindsight, like at the time it
was controversial and everybody's brewhi a ticket, keep the third
like thirty. I'll put it this way. I just Drake

(01:54:50):
has charged in three hundred dollars for Madison Square Garden
and I gotta buy four of them things for my assistant.
So twelve hundred dollars to see Drake Ms versus thirty
dollar victory tours. I know there's a difference between eighty
four inflation and two thousand and eighteen, but I'm just yeah,

(01:55:11):
but I'm just saying that. But for the hell that
you guys were put through to execute this tour, in hindsight,
do you still do you have any regrets about it?

(01:55:36):
Or no? In fact um because it literally sided for
where we are now. A lot of people didn't want
us to do that. Tour, a lot of people said
it couldn't be done. Um, no, Black Acts were doing
things like that, signing out like five stadium nights. So

(01:55:57):
can you seven nights a Dodger stadium? Can you speak
on that? Because like watching young, we just think like, oh,
the Jackson's could do or anything. Yeah, the constant narrative
I hear is that we had to fight for it.
We had to fight for it. We had to fight
for it always that, you know. And it was just
to get a seat at the table. Yeah. What it

(01:56:19):
wasn't that we thought We didn't think we were better
than everybody else. We never thought that, But just it
was just our quest for always being the best that
we could be and to do more. We were never
satisfied with ourselves. We always wanted more. We always wanted
to do better and do more and um, and that's

(01:56:41):
just how we grew up. And but I remember specifically
the Victory tour, in the meetings we had before the tour,
we said what we wanted to do coming off of
like five six straight multi platinum albums consecutively, from Destiny
to Triumph Off the Wall, you know, all these albums,

(01:57:05):
uh Filler said, Okay, that's what we want to do.
And they said, so we're here be able to do this.
People are not going to come out. Wait, they said
they're not gonna come out. I said it seriously. My
father said, uh, he said no, he said no, would

(01:57:25):
be there. And I think Don King at the time
helped to make that happen so with his presence. And
again now now I'm realizing that can have happened without
Don King really yeah, so okay, So with that, so

(01:57:45):
modern promoters and rock they were just was there such
thing as our human back in eighty four? And our
human was the small potatoes. All human got to start
from my father, my father. Yeah. Um, my father was
always like, I want to make sure the black guys
have a chance and promoting, so you always, you know,

(01:58:07):
get the black guy as a shot, you know, because
in those days they wouldn't they wouldn't let black promoters
promoting the black acts. You still have that problem today,
Yeah right, yeah, you do me only yeah, so, and
but he would always say our hyman was a young
Harvard grad who Yeah, does the name Sheep Gordon mean

(01:58:30):
anything to you? Chef is a good friend of ours.
Good for show? Yeah, I'm going to at this interview tonight,
I'm going to STEP's house. Okay, Oh sorry, That's why
I beg for this, That's why I pay for the
interview to all the afternoon. I'm going straight to the airport.
But in my mind, he was the black whisper, you know,

(01:58:56):
got Teddy out of his situation. And what and I
mean at the time, what was it about? Where live? Now? Okay?
When you go to Hawaii? Uh for a few days
and uh yeah, Look, if it were up to me,

(01:59:16):
i'd work. That's cool, take a break, brou all right,
but wait, did you guys ever take vacations in the
heyday of the Jackson? Yeah, it's you don't take vacations? Yeah, yo,
because when you never know when it will stop or whatever, like,

(01:59:39):
you gotta keep going and rest. Was there ever any
fear of Okay, I guess now I can bring up
the princess you what what was the general feelings about princes? Wait?
What was the prince story? In the role's voice? I

(01:59:59):
forget some of these things. I remember when doves Cry,
like your general feelings, prince? Did you? Honestly? His music?
And I wasn't that crazy about dove Cry When I
first heard it was a risky song. Yeah, I mean
it's a great song, but at the time, I wasn't
it just I mean, um, like, I like the other

(02:00:21):
stuff first of all, genius Prince an amazing talent um,
But does Doves Cry wasn't one of my favorites. It
was the other stuff that I like, Okay, soft and wet.
But did he I mean, was his was he mm
hmm No. But but to Michael it was italy like

(02:00:47):
I mean pre MTV embracing Prince or like I'm talking
about Prince just before empty because obviously, once your brother
breaks the barriers at MTV, then MTV was like, oh
what other cool black people can and now okay, now
the elevators crowded. But before then was it even a thought?

(02:01:09):
I mean, like, is your sisters even covered? Mhmm yeah, yeah, yeah,
Like I like, I love, I feel for you, Okay,
but Dove's Crab wasn't one of my favorites, but I
love everything else. Were you at the house in haven

(02:01:30):
Hurst when you visited? No, but he Alway used to
call up and you would call up, Yeah, I wanted
to talk to LaToya and I and I would always
like hang up on people just have a hard time.

(02:01:52):
But because Principer caught up would be like, yeah, LaToya,
I'm like, who is this? Never say hello? He's like
he's like yeah, he has a deep voice. So it's
like I'd be like, okay, click. Yeah, that's how you

(02:02:13):
get bad at me. I wasn't ready for that. She
would get mad at me. But you know, I wasn't
ready for that. I haven't hang up on many of
her boyfriends. So I was. I was that kid Bobby too,
Oh yeah, Bobby, I get him in the worst time.

(02:02:37):
Oh damn. Okay, So you family people, yeah exactly. Okay,
you do the same to your sisters. Oh I was,
you know, get my sisters out there, ore sucking then
free rain that that was my m o. Um. So okay,
so you're moved to a m with Randy, the Randy

(02:02:59):
and the Gypsy Project, the McClean side and yeah, okay,
so why did it take you? Wait that it came
out um at the time and it was being sold
to Universal and that whole project was done. But everybody like,

(02:03:23):
you know, like when when when when In those days
when the record label was being sold, people wouldn't even
don't want to go go in the office anymore that
you know, that means that they're going to consolidate, and downside,
a lot of people would lose their jobs. So a
lot of people just didn't work and then record didn't
get worked and it took a I'm surprised he even

(02:03:44):
got done. But it was like at that time and
it was basically basically cashed out. They moved to Universal.
So because it was a transitional period, it got lost
in that insurance. Yeah, yeah, really well, and we were
an MC at the time when m c A has

(02:04:07):
just gotten sold to uh the label, so it's to
Geffen an interscope, so we had to album that. Yeah,
that happens in those transitional periods. People get laid off
and people you know. All right, So before I wrap
up uh the show, I would like to take a

(02:04:31):
different angle, can we hear? Uh? Do you have a
story of you and your brother Michael, just a normal
just something that we don't know, Like you guys you know,
have three point shootout contest or where just something that

(02:04:55):
we don't know about you and your your brother's relationship.
It was it was music martial arts, believe it or not,
Martial Arts martial arts. We all we all wanted to
be Bruce Lee. Actually we we actually had Bruce Lee's brother, uh,
who's our trainer teaching us, So we had good training. Yeah,

(02:05:18):
I was gonna say on the Soul Training episode, Uh,
there's a clip of Randy on crutches and Joe actually
says that. Don says, well, what happened to Randy? And
Joe was like, Randy's a kung food cat and it's
where did you kick your foot through the windows of

(02:05:39):
Oh that's noth um. So the future for you now
in developing your label, um is this, this is full
circle down now your WWN Well, it's funny because for me,
I I try to keep it as organic as possible.

(02:06:05):
And even with Janet Um because we we we were
partnered on everything and with this new song that so
on your show and but for me, we just want
to be natural about it. There's for for the for

(02:06:27):
Rhythm Nations on the label. We're not going to sign
a lot of people because we want to whoever we sign,
we want to make sure it does it well. And
there's a girl from Wells who's toying with. Her name
is Rebecca James. She this girl can come in this room,
come in this room and make magic happen all by herself.

(02:06:50):
But she she writes and sings gospel. So when I
first heard, I didn't believe it was her, and I said, well,
come to my house. I'm gonna hear you play and
sing in person and live. So she did it, and
it's just okay. I played it for Janet and Jennet goes, Randy,
we need that voice on stage and back up. So
she's turning with Janet and we're working on her album
right now. Wow, it's coming up. She's really talented, an

(02:07:13):
amazing songwriter, so you'll be hearing about her. Rebecca James,
Yeah from Wells all right, and but that's it. We're
just you know, to me, music is a gift from God.
We we all, we all have this gift. It's an
amazing gift that God gives us to help bring the

(02:07:36):
world together. And that's just not I'm not trying to
be like, but it's true. It's like music makes you
feel good, you know, It's like right do yeah, It's
like I mean, I love drums, I love instruments. I
still love going to the music store and playing a
different drums. You'd like you like doing that too, It's
like it's still fun. Yeah, right, it's like playing right,

(02:07:58):
let's play time, go to the store. I don't know
to say, do you still play drums? How come you
never played drums as opposed to bondas um because I
did play drums. I played drums like I trained foot
in the beginning. First I started playing drums. Did we
play percussion because Johnny was playing drums? So I just

(02:08:21):
when we went to percussion, oh, keyboards. Yeah, you could
have preferred drums. Okay, now I know that. Yes. And
then when we're at m hmm, what happened. There's a

(02:08:41):
lot of things. What happened with that whole Victory album,
the whole concept I'm talking about literally the cover, there
was a there was and then in later pressings the
dove is going. Really do you guys notice everything? I
also like, like like the white glove thing that Michael,

(02:09:04):
the way that happened with us, that's an entring story.
So Bill Witten, who does our wardrobe, and he he
had this white glove for Jackie to wear. Jackie said, man,
I'm not wearing white glove. Jackie took the glove off
and threw it the Michael because man, you wein us.
I'm not gonna wear it. That's how it happened. No

(02:09:24):
one Glass, I can put the Jackie is away where
you dance. You wear his glove, Michael, so I can
put it on, said, I'm wearing it. That's how it happened.
That's the mic drop statement. Thank you, Randy. I appreciate it.
Thank you, thank you. Another episode of Anemic Supreme which
circustate Boss Bill shout out to Fante La La and

(02:09:50):
uh pay Bill, we will see you on the next
col round. Thank you very much. This was Love Supreme
only on Pandora. All Right, m hm h or's Love
Supreme is a production of my Heart Radio. This classic
episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more

(02:10:18):
podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.