QLS Classic: Salaam Remi Pt. 2

In Part 2 of 2, Salaam Remi talks about making it in the music business, helping Amy Winehouse shape her style and shares his Tales from The Latin Quarter.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course, Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
All Right, y'all, it's sly eyah and it's time for
another Quest Love Supreme classic. This week we continue with
part two of Salam Remy. Yep. And part two Salam

(00:21):
talks about making it in the music business, helping Amy
Winehouse shape her style, and he even shares tales from
the Latin quata. Yeah, that and so much more. So,
Let's get ready for Part two of Salam Remy from
May second, last week, or part one of the Quest

(00:47):
Love Supreme interview with Slave Remy. We talked about his
early one acts like Curtis Flow, c Reil and the
House Rockers, and touched upon his work with Fruchi's, including
their breakout single the remix of Napia. Salam also contributed
Fujili to the group's wildly successful second album, The Score.
We in depart one with the question about how the

(01:07):
success of that album affected the members of the Foods.
Here Sa sat in the hindsight and you know, part

(01:29):
family member and part outside of looking in whatever do
you think that after eight million copies of that album sold,
did it served them well or not mm hmm, not

(01:50):
like regrets if you could go back and redo it
again or whatever. But in the aftermath of it, like
I think ultimately as served them really well. I mean,
I have this thing with artists who have done ten
million albums, Um, what happens after that? You know, whether
it was Usher's Confessions, whether it was you know, not
many artists have been able to come back and having
a dull moment when they did it twice. I think

(02:12):
Black Eyed Peas might have done that a couple of
times in a row. Um. You know, for Lauren Hill's career,
it was the Score intimates education because I still see
the Score is almost like a frank to back the
black or like I'm saying, it's like a movement. Even
though blunting, the reality was there there was something to

(02:33):
follow up on that now gave you credibility. It gave
everyone an opportunity to know your name. So now you
had to just deliver on your next piece of work,
not necessarily just have all those pieces. Um. I think
it served him well to now get their art and
their ability to still all eat to this day, you know,
based upon something that came out two years ago. Why

(02:53):
didn't you guys were doing anything else? Because after that,
y'all never you you weren't nor miss education. My last
thing I did was the Sweetest Thing remix with the
spot Throw. Yeah, so that was probably the last thing
I did. But you know, just in general, my conversation
and who I am is something that's kind of happy.
So I wasn't gonna fit into a sad song. Mold.

(03:15):
It wasn't gonna work even you know, people talk to
me about, you know, even my work with Amy wind
House and they're like, you know, sad songs. I'm like, nah,
she's talking the whole time, like maybe in the morning
when your dick works. So like the lyrics are all
about their tongue in cheek. You know. Yeah, I cheated
on you, but I heard love is blind, Like it's
all smarter. It's not Love is a losing game. It's

(03:35):
not super sad mad records. It's like, I'm gonna snap
on you until you break. Basically, I was trying to
get me pumps in my road call, but I couldn't
get the rhyme. But Jesus, actually that's something I wrote
that I actually had prior to meeting hu. This is

(03:58):
was uh trying to get a me pumped story from
right now. I didn't even get then yet. But basically
this twisted pinky is the story. Yeah, I dislocated it.
And basically there's a friend of mine who I recently

(04:18):
just told three weeks ago with the story came from.
But they showed up from my house with a home girl.
They were really drunk. They couldn't get anywhere. They got alcohol,
poison and cool. Um, all right, it's cool. I'm gonna
go get you out some water. Next morning, I tripped
in my staircase. I hit my hand. I have my
finger in two pieces. I'm like, oh, I can't play guitar.

(04:39):
I can't play nothing. I'm my only broken bone in life.
So I'm like, oh, word that. Later that day I'm like, yo,
where y'all at? I'm at the studio my fingers twisted?
Oh we and d C at the All Star game.
Word alright cool? And then the lyrics for that song
basically wrote itself. Ouch, well that was cute all things

(05:04):
and jail there you go. Um, how did you I
know him? Okay, see you didn't work on education obviously,
Um what did you do between and now as comes
in the picture with two thousand to two thousand and one?

(05:25):
What do you do? Ninety nine? What's I doing? Ninety nine?
Now you nine? I bought sound Works, which is underneath
studio for D four UM, so that became my studio base.
I was working on a lot of my own label stuff.
I had UM. All my artists went to jail Um
Major Stress, and I had a group called Major Stress.

(05:47):
One of those people went to jail Ross t has
had a nine six million dollar records, so Ross had
his whole album done. Ross went to jail Um. He
still opped up now now he's we've been out for
a long time. But basically that happened. Then I bought
my studio, and then I just started experiments and I
produced a group actually from Philly coll Live and direct

(06:09):
Um just for young brothers who sing and did some
stuff and what else. N nine I worked toward Sally
before that. I'm trying to think what else came out
around that. I was helping Angie Martineze with an up
close and personal album. When you work on it, when
you work with an artist, like, is there any sort

(06:29):
of modus operandi that or what do you look for?
When you decide okay, I'm gonna mess with them. Sometimes
it's a relationship with somebody that brought him to me.
But at this giving point, I've kind of crystallized it.
I'm into people with distinctive voices and what I really do.
You know, some people are just like, well, I made
the beat and then I'm now I'm fitting this person

(06:50):
onto it. I really try to talk to someone to
get to figure out where's the residents in there voice
and then also on their lyrical voice. Then once I
figure out where that is, I'm just trying to get
them to illuminate and now build music around it. So
by asking people what's their favorite songs, whether you like,
what's the thing that you write to all the time?
Everything else, I started getting a picture for who they

(07:12):
are and who I want to I'm pretty much taking
myself as a fan, like I don't know who you are?
And now does their voice number one make me inspired?
Like you know, whenever I'm working with nots, I want
to hear the smoke mouth. I don't want to hear
Noah sitting on the chair that's like Book of Rhymes voice.
I want to hear, you know, the poison voice. That's
where it came. I was like, Yo, that sounds like
you had your go fronts in your mouth and a

(07:33):
mouthful of smoke. So I want to hear that little
extra energy into it. Um. I want to hear something
that really sounds like people at their best. Um. And
really it's it's great voices and then the ability to
tell a story. If lyrically abust, your windows can continue
to tell a story. If you know, I heard love
songs when I first heard me she started singing, Amy

(07:54):
started singing, um girl from Epanema, and then you know,
the first thing we wrote was I heard love is
Blind and Cherry. So they were all about like the
voices and the story. And then that inspires me to
now sit down and work on a sonic palette that
I feel like no good companies. So obvious follow up
question and who's the distinctive voice that you're that's motivating

(08:16):
you did you haven't those roots? The roots has been
the newest thing. Um, yeah, it's just we're I want
to I want to come to him with with definite
song ideas first, and then he can play rich. Can
we get the re rap sing and join Finally, maybe

(08:39):
we'll do all that, but we're gonna have to have
material first, So we're just we've been fishing the last
few years creating songs and now so we'll bring to
them the roots. Give me somebody, you can just ask, Yes,
we land we all over. I don't know. I'm still
looking for the voices. So I'm still open and looking

(08:59):
for ord I heard some voices here and there, but
I'm just definitely looking for new voices to kind of
inspire me. I'm at that point though, I'll be forty
six and a few weeks and I'm kind of like,
at fifty I need thriller. So I'm looking for the
opportunity to be able to take someone who's either around
already and help them make that record that now pushes

(09:20):
it past it. I look at it like how someone
would have looked at Farrell prior to Happy and said,
oh man, you did it all already. Your day was there,
and he still made the biggest record as his career
at a point where when somebody wasn't necessarily looking for
So I still feel like, you know, now, I have
a blister on my finger. I've been sitting there playing
my upright base for last few weeks trying to find

(09:41):
something that resonates with me first and then resonates with
my peers and then resonates with the world. Yeah, as
I said before the how did you meet nas Um
now as I met like during that early Perran minut
I canally went to junior high together. So in ockingnas
with running around trying to look for deals, I would

(10:03):
always see Noles with him. But during two thousand and
one I've ran into him when he was working on
the Foobo album. He had a verse on the Fatty
Girl song that I don't think ever came out, and
I was doing a record for the Fubo album. Actually
the only record that I actually never got paid for,
thank you Shark. It was a Beanie Man song called

(10:27):
Batman Business. So that's the only song I never got. Yeah, somehow,
I don't know how they got away with that, but anyhow,
um Wait Foo had an album Fatty Girl, Fatty Girl
that I had a copy of. It was Yeah, that
was the that was the Chicken grease drum and Spanish
guitar eras. I ain't exactly it seems so at the time,

(10:55):
just seving it all up album something like that from
right basically, but during that time, so I ran into
nos in l a um He's like, yeah, you've got
any bet so in your He was kind of out
there just laying low, and then I sent him he
came to you. Well, I saw him at that session,
so I'd already met him before in passing the New York.

(11:18):
But I saw him at the session because I was
there to record Beanie Man and our recording. It was
like during Grammy week or something like that, and then
he was at the studio so he was like, Yo,
what's up? Oh dad, Yo know another calf from New York?
What's going on? You got anything on you? So I
gave him whatever beat CD I had with me. Then
he exchanged beam two way numbers and then he was

(11:38):
he was like he text me like, Yo, I need
some murder music, something that sounds like whatever it was.
So then I created what became what Goes Around. Um.
I sat in the studio and messed with my Organs
and Rose and pretty much composed that track, and then
I sent him that maybe a couple other joints, and
then when he heard it, he was like, yo, I
don't have anything that even feels like this. Because once again,

(11:59):
I was on his jazz musician even like when he
talks about automatic, he's like he wanted stuff that musically
put you in a mood and then put the drums
to it, not just something that was like running quick
like g ra So the what goes around was that,
And then he came back to New York and we
started recording. What do you think about his I mean
much has been said about from every hip hop stand

(12:22):
on the Internet and many a chat board about his
choice of music not matching the greatness of his words
or whatever like them not meeting. So I mean, at
the time, were you figuring out, Okay, this is finally
a chance for me to give him what he needs

(12:43):
or um, I don't know if I was there. I mean,
this was like the Nozre Domas album or just out
so the Nozre Domas album wasn't anyone's favorite NAS album
at that time. I think that you know what was
the leftover whatever happened? You know, still for me, I
was still in hate me now more, which I always
look at it and go who in hip hop actually
got away outside of part time sucker by Carris One,

(13:05):
but actually robbing on something that sounded like that. But
you know, as hip hop purists heads, by the time
we got to it was written, and I was like,
there's no large, no premos, no tip like nothing that okay,
there's one premo, Like I didn't get enough. I liked
why he didn't um, Well, the reason why I think
that during it was written time he wanted to start.

(13:27):
It was written with Molly, so that's where on the
Rail and True Dialect came from. And then Molly played
it on the radio, and then he was upset because
Molly played True dot or on the Rail with no
put screwball or whoever on it. So then that's when
he was like, y'all need to find producers. So then
he went to got with track Masters and they built
what they built, which you know, to be honest, if

(13:49):
he didn't never go and make himself into a platinum
artist one where another, he might not still be around.
So he did know follow He followed his instinct and
did whatever it was he wanted to do with that.
But I also also he felt like everybody else was
roming in his flow, so he had to find a
way to do something different because if he just kept
romming in the same flow and everybody else was it

(14:09):
was wearing it down. So I mean my perspective, it
was just like all yo, we never linked. We both
had similar tastes. We both will go without a pause.
We were still listen to an album and go oh
not story to tell us my drink, Like we still
pick the same we both know what you want to
eat alright, cool five chicken macro and she's cannyans like
wead the same we have like Mirroage kind of lives

(14:31):
and even a lot of musicians that were in his
dad's band or the same cast that I worked with
all the time. So I don't know if I had
a perspective like I'm gonna do this, I was just
like it'd be dope if we did some stuff. And
at one point, um like the night when the night
before the Lauren Hill Unplug was recorded, she came down

(14:52):
to the studio while we were there and played us
all the songs. So that's the reason why she was horse.
She was pretty much did you songs? She plays us
a lot of songs, no point did you go wait
wait wait, save your voice. She wanted to let me
hear the song. So it was that it was getting
late and he left and then that was that. But

(15:12):
you know, the bottom linems that was part of the
recording being I was. But then she was also like,
you know what if my voice cracks, it cracks, you
don't like it be out there? Oh you don't like
me unless I pay this makeup artists and not here addresser,
then you don't like me. You like what I just
paid for. That was that. But my point is with nas,
I just think it was um Us also finding the

(15:33):
chemistry to where we He's able to come to me
with I did. Yo. Let's I was listening to Bitches
Brew yesterday, were all right cool? Now Joe got the
base claring that and then we just go all the
way there, y'all was listening to some Bessie Smith or
something like that, and then I would just go in
that direction. So we have loads of records that were
just musically matched in that way. And so are you

(15:56):
able you're able to make be the real time in
front of your client? Yeah? Oh man, I do that
most of the time. Actually, that's most of my records
are either while they're on the way or coming down
the whole, or because I'm taking that off of what
they're saying, I'm actually fibbing off of their energy and
what they're talking about, and I'm asking him what do
you like because I'm trying to figure out what notes

(16:17):
actually resonate with them that's going to get them righting.
And sometimes you know, with nas if he likes a
particular beat, he'll write twelve verses to the same track
and then I'll move them around and start building new tracks.
Answer something from me, and this is nerdship, What terms
did you use for for zone that I can tell that?

(16:38):
Is that a James break? This? This? Of course it
is because the bodoes sound so familiar. I was never
want to occur to me, just spending backwards. You can
hear what it is man, But basically I mean that
that's been funny because the standing world loves or hates

(16:58):
that record. Oh their stands who hate that record? Like
that was part of the I hate with Salam does
with conversation. There's a lot I'm telling you there's a
lot of people that that that was. That was like
basically that that error. But for me, the two things One,
I never put my name on records, so when you
hear him to yell my name on that. I wasn't there.

(17:19):
They mixed it without me, so I never would do that.
I wouldn't let him do that because I feel like,
if the record is gonna be dope, didn't like it
because you like it, not because you said my name.
So I don't tag records. I don't go I'm gonna
make you dance like I want the record to make
you dance, not actually tell you that. Um. And it
wasn't mixed at then. K Slay was in the room

(17:39):
when I was actually making that track, and it was
the same day like when I may probably get down,
So I was just sitting there messing with different James vibes.
And if you listen to how Na sounds on the
record differently from how Jungle and winds sound the record.
Some people have different films of Bravefast, so they sound,
you know, jungles versus this wizard that. But if you
actually hear him cutting straight across it with his K

(18:00):
solo type flow, you kind of hear more like what
the records rough really felt like. So the drums were
crispy and popping. The bass was on it, but it
was me just being backwards. Paul rivets pe that's what
it was. I've never been on a chat room where
they said that, you're yeah, I've seen it on oklay before. Seriously, Yeah,

(18:20):
I mean people probably yeah, damn, that's the world. But
I mean, just in general, our work isn't really about
beats all the time. Sometimes it's about different uh levels
of song. And the reality is not picks his albums
based upon what he said, not based upon who had
to snare the week. And if the beat it's too loud,

(18:42):
he won't even actually run on it, like it sounds
like it's yelling at me, turn it down. You know.
It's some of something like successful platinum rap rappers hate
loud music or loud drums. I think Jay Once told
me once like, you know, like he doesn't want anything
to upstage his voice outdo him. So they go more

(19:02):
for base than for big and for nazles moves and
core changes and other stuff. Because once again, a lot
of no outside of Tupac who was stacking vocals with
six tracks or fifty, who might do a few j
or nas, they most of the time have one vocal track.
One vocal track that's telling you everything you gotta hear
at whatever tone he wants to tell them that's stacking

(19:24):
your voice, riving on hate. When does that? It's it's
a sound for that, that's the t I that's just
know certain people will do that. Okay, I'm saving the
best for us, all right, Damn let me get because
Jasmine too. I want to get. I gotta get to
I gotta get to Amy got it? So how did

(19:47):
you just? How did you even link? Ammy? So? I
did a record call for left I uh during that
two thousand one period record Yeah, there was a record
called Black Party. Um you worked on that did block Party.
It was the Super Super and Over. Yeah, it was weird. Basically,

(20:11):
what happened with that record is that l a Read
had really wanted her to sign up to do that
TLC album that was supposed to get worked on at
that time, and she wouldn't do it. So she mark
Pitts it first. Like he took a break after I
think Big Past a couple of things, went back to school,
and that became his first and our project he needed

(20:31):
to do. And then he hit me up like yo,
you work on different stuff whatever it was. So then
we linked and I did the Block Party record, which
was for me. It was always the thing of I
have a theme like with MS Dynamite with many artists,
where I just need them people to feel like they're
a regular person from around the way. So that was
meant to be Lisa's block party and Philly, you know

(20:52):
the sound of it. What's your name Lisa? And where
are you from nine Street? It was just supposed to
be an energy of a block party and having fun
and like, come on, that's with me, ke Bryce and
me kind of messing around doing that and you know,
just even using the Columbu song with the udu drum.
That's all I track really is. It's a kick yea,
So this Columbu song, udu drum and a kick, and

(21:17):
basically it was just kind of floating on its own world,
and you know, I got somebody to do. Ain't your naking?
I know, it was just to play play around record.
So however it is, that record becomes her single and
they were supposed to shoot it on a block party
in Brooklyn and then somehow they go shoot the video
somewhere else and it doesn't pan out. But anyhow, Amy Winehouse,

(21:38):
here's this record. It says, whoever could figure out what
to do with that? Record is who I need to
produce me. They're gonna know what to do with me.
So she goes example, yeah, once again there was Amy's
air who where she wanted to be. So she was like,
that's who it is. So she they went to m

(21:59):
I Music Publishing in London really trying to get to me,
ended up getting signed during this interim left I passes,
I moved to Miami. I'm like, if it's not good people,
good music, good money, don't call me. I'm semi retired.
Or if it's good people and good music, the money's

(22:20):
gonna come. So that's been my mode since oh two,
when I first moved and when I looked after she passed.
At the first day that I met Amy was made
twenty one May twenty seven, two thousand and two, left
Out's birthday, m hm, So it comes back around so basically, um,
and that's what it was. She came in and guy

(22:42):
and moved in London convinced me to meet her, just
take the meeting, and I was like, just leave me alone, no,
just take the meeting. Meet her. And she walked in.
She had a little guitar and Nick Shamanski was with her,
and I was like, all right, so what are we
gonna do? And she pulls out a guitar and she
started saying and girl from the epanema and those high
ceilings in her room and the whole room lit up,

(23:05):
and I was like, oh, you can sing because from
the demos I heard of Amy, Amy, Amy and other stuff.
I couldn't tell a phone was another one to be
Erica mime or whatever else, and I wasn't really I
was like, leave me alone, this isn't it. And basically
that's was the start of it. And then that day
we wrote Cherry and I heard Love is Blind when

(23:28):
she passed where with You when you Got the World?
I was in London. I was on my way to
the house. Basically, um, she had messed up the tour.
She was like, I think I messed up the toy
where she didn't want to go on in the first place,
So now I can go to Nikki's wedding. Nick who
I met her with in the first place, was getting married.
That was the manager that she wrote No Rehab whatever

(23:50):
else about. But they were in similar in age. She
was might be a year or two older than her,
and it was like her brother. So it was like
now we can go. I can go to Nicki's wedding. Okay. Cool. Uh.
Wedding was on Sunday and at Lucien's house because Nick
is lucy Is nephew. I was got there on Thursday.
I'm always talking to the security guards. No Jamaica, y'all.

(24:11):
I go boss over here and cool. We're having our
conversation and I was like, yo, you know what, she
wasn't drinking for like ten days before that. She saw
the drinking a little bit. I was like, you know what,
I'm gonna come on Saturday and make sure she's good.
I was in Shepherd's Bush, not far away from where
she was at, but I was like, I'm gonna go
and you know, make sure she's good before we go

(24:32):
to Lucien's house on Sunday, just so no mess s
thoughts at the wedding where she might say something crazy,
but it was supposed to be all jokes. Cool. And
then Saturday when I called me, I'm at a jerk
chicken spot you I wanted something to bring some food.
Then he hit me back and said she passed. She
passed on a Friday night, so I was close by
and didn't get a chance to real Yo, sire, can

(24:52):
you tell us something like dope about amy that most
people wouldn't know that, like you got to experience that,
you wished that people w um one. She's an absolute comedian. Um,
it's constant, constant, constant, got something smart to say, like
every fourth bar of the minute, like you're not gonna

(25:14):
get past three bars and then she's not gonna say
something smart about somebody something. Um. Yeah, that that was that.
And then also she remember stuff. Her memory was like
super sharp. So if she remember your daughters must be
nine hows or Brianna right, okay, like she knew everybody's
kids their names, where all the pieces were of people

(25:37):
that she maybe hardly saw, but like really had a
strong memory and sense of who and what and kind
of her perspective of why super impulsive and serious. Hey
see that song? Can you delete it from my iTunes
so it will never play again? Like it was that
like half her iTunes or shuffle and if something played

(25:58):
you didn't like, it is deleted. I never want to
hear it again. Thank you? Was the What did you
think of the documentary? You think was that a good
representation of which really was? Um? I think the documentary was, um,
it was insightful for a lot of people who only
saw her as you know, a mind of herself trouble

(26:20):
at certain points at that point. But it was also
being able to show human eyes part of it. But
what I didn't like about the documentary was that it
villainized her father, which you know, my friend, yes, but
that was that man's daughter. And you don't turn around
and put that man in a history book on the

(26:42):
video as the enabler. But however you want to spend it,
that's your perspective. So I didn't agree with that, and
you also don't turn around and say well. But then
also the amy while I was foundation as England didn't
have any go away rehabs, they were not there, so
they're actually opening those things. They're doing many different things
that are possible. You just took the negative and then

(27:04):
left at the negative because it suited your narrative better.
And that's what I don't like about the idea of
someone else having the ability to taint your story one
way or another. It's like, no, the truth in many
different people's eyes is from their eyes, but that's not
I wouldn't do that. That's not right. Oh, how do

(27:27):
you navigate just sitting there talking to you seem to
be pretty laid back, like introverted dude, how do you
navigate the networking part of the game Because you don't
seem to be like to go out and the party,
and you know that I did that in the nineties.
That's over. Um. I think in general, it's really first
things first. You know, the reason why I've been in

(27:49):
my space creating. I feel like the quality of products
starts the conversation. So there was a point when um
guy moved. My publisher in London was like, hey, you
don't want to be forty with a b take like,
what you're gonna do? And I really took that on
a mar early thirties. He said, you don't want to
be forty with a bat tape? What are you gonna do?

(28:11):
And basically, you know, I was like, what's that? You're
playing number three again? You all crazy? Like you know,
I stressed out about it before. Sounds like the Neptunes
on that you know that movie, So it's gonna go
through it. But basically, um, I just looked at it like, yeah,
you're right, So you know, I attacked the Hollywood side
of it in my thirties and really, you know, got

(28:33):
a space in Hollywood and really got at the movies
and you know, did the Sex in the City movies
and score Tyson and really took some time to learn
the whole process or when it takes to do that,
by scoring TV shows and different all that stuff. And
then you know, by the time um, I was forty,
then Amy had just passed. So I was like that

(28:53):
I met her after my thirties birthday and she was
going before my forties, but she came and did something.
So then I decided to go. And you have my
labels as Sony Flying boot Aloud in their Life signing,
Macwill signed, they all those different bands. So I still
felt like I was taking a coach's job and you know,
shaping it that way. And then now that I've learned,

(29:15):
you know, I had to chair lead the record by
on me on my label, and I was like, oh,
billion streams, Oh this should do well. Oh let me see,
Oh this is how y'all kind of stick? Okay, cool?
So now I just understand, you know, I watched a
lot of Narcos. Pablo Will go to Bullevia and put
it in cabs and do what he needed to do
in order to have the product. And if we don't

(29:36):
have the product, then there's no conversation. There's no reason why.
You know, I'm not even gonna say, America, this planet
is allowing large black men to come in and take
their money out of their pocket unless I have goods.
So so we just went all over the place. Um,

(29:56):
I guess the most important question is one, how did
how were you Amy and Mark able to assuming that
you guys never were in the room at the same
time until Little War shows, how how were you and

(30:18):
Mark Ronson able to sonically sort of achieved to have
the same achievements on Back to Black and make it
sound like a cosy record because I still feel like
one person produced that record. And why in God's name
didn't Um the song that opens the the UK version

(30:40):
of the album not make up Addiction? Why didn't that
make the American version of the album, because that, to
me was like my favorite song on the album. They
took it off. Um. Actually, so for your first question,
it's Amy. Amy tied the oup together, um, all the songs.
So we actually just recently did a documentary with Jeremy

(31:04):
who's done like catch a fire and all that other stuff.
The Phil Conns runs um, which should be I guess
coming out sometime soon. I think he's doing it a
can um in a couple of weeks. But basically, Um,
all the songs that I did on Back to Black
were recorded in between Frank and Back to Black, So
all of my songs were really written first. So Addicted

(31:25):
and Just Friends were written to be Christmas bonus songs
for Frank that we never ended up doing. So then
we're written probably the end of OH three into oh
four somewhere around there before everything else. Um it was
written and probably end in O four, and then me
and Mr Jones, which was originally was around and um

(31:50):
Tears Dry was actually written during that pair of process
as a ballot, which was sped up later. But basically
your songs came first, and then Ronson came in right.
So her whole mode the recording which you know she
got for me, which was basically we sit down and
she might be playing guitar or just doing something basic
and we would get the whole entire song and then
I would do the arrangements. So that's how she got

(32:13):
accustomed to writing. So by the time she went to Mark.
We had already go into the record store. We brought
the five Hour Els, we brought the Shangry Lives, we
brought all the pieces. She already knew these are the
things that I was around Blank. I was listening to this.
I'm listening to you all My Destiny by Paul Anco.
I'm listening to all these different records, and she knew
where she wanted to go. I started doing it when
she got re Mark. They continued and wrote some more

(32:35):
and then she was like, well, Dad, I still have
these songs. I want to use them. So me, me
and Mr Jones, which I had versions that are kind
of more jazzy, was like, hey, why don't we put
a walking guitar on that? You know? And didn't you
remember when I was doing Bridging the Gap for Naz
that old odaro was like chick boom, chick boom, So

(32:56):
that was kind of She was like, let's put the
chicker boom in the walking guitar on me and Mr Jones.
So then that version becomes that um tears drawing their own.
I just felt like there was too many ballots. All
Amy songs were written at eight two beats permitted its
kind of in similar chord frames, and I was like,
we gotta speed it up. I had a multito, ain't

(33:17):
know my own high enough, and I was like I
was listening to it without the song on, and I
was like, you know what, you could sing it over there.
She couldn't figure it out for the longest, so I
ended up singing it and then she re sing it
over me, and then we did the whole track over.
So that was the reason for it, just to give
something that was obvious, up up up thing, you know.
When we did the modulation on the original, she was like, no,

(33:38):
no, no no, it's gonna sound cool and get and take
that off. It was kind of like putting that in pocket.
Were you using the same studio because I mean, now,
especially in the age of of where we are now
with plug ins and really I mean this album being
a pioneering record and re establishing that that nostalgic Sure,

(34:00):
even though yes, I know that that tune was you know,
doing their thing for at least like six years with
Sharon Jones or whatnot, But um, do we use the
same studio from walk Songs and my songs? No? No,
I'm just how did you I'm especially for like Fucory, like,
were you using your studio you always used or actually
at that time, um all the songs for Back to

(34:22):
Black the studio that is now my studio into my house.
She walked into my living room and I had two
story high ceilings, and she's like, I want to sing
right here. And I was like what She's like, no,
can I sing right here? So I basically put a
kit and put a piano in my amps and everything
into my living room. So the sound of me and
Mr Jones is the sound of my living rooms. That

(34:46):
is the room, and she's singing standing in the middle
of the floor with the you know, pretty much forty
seven in the middle of the room, a little carpet
underneath the drums. Everything is in the room, and then
we would just move stuff around it. I would just
I would just never think that achieving that that soundent
quality was even possible, because even with Steve and I

(35:07):
at Electric Ladies Studios, like, you know, one would think
that with the and you know, at the some of
the mikes and and and the amps and and the
equipment it's still from when Jimi Hendricks was there. But
I wouldn't even fathom or think that that sound could
be achieved, and so honestly he's telling you make it

(35:28):
sound like the fifties, Like how long? How long was
the work process and until you finally found a way
to make them drums sound like? Honestly, I would give
a lot of credits to my recording engineer, Frank so Cao.
Um how old Frank is probably thirty nine now at
that time he was in his twenties. Um, but Frank

(35:51):
was also am He liked music. He was a hip
hop hey that he liked beatles, he like everything else.
We recorded my songs on Back to Black on a
through a Digito eight using digital performer, Like it was
like basically stompbox. We've read about how Rick Rubin or
different people would get a house and kind of record.
I didn't have any equipment at the house out of

(36:12):
studio downtown, but it was like, Okay, we're gonna record here.
So he basically looked around it and I knew what
I wanted to hear, and he knew what I wanted
to hear, and he captured, you know, even what we
were able to do with the Motown replay in that space,
it was kind of like, you know, musicians like, how
are you gonna do this? The horns were all done,
you know, on a what is it the rolling eight

(36:34):
track recorder recorded in New York in the room, you
know Vincent Henry, who was my ace musician, who was
played on everything from somebody Else's Guy to Jiggy to
whatever else. He would just be sending me horns in
different pieces, all the flutes and all the arrangements and
putting pieces together. But the way we were able to

(36:55):
put it back together, reamp it, put it through some
music man's still have all you know, my sound works
mis too, tlms and forty seven's capture it back. But
we know what we wanted to hear. So that process,
I can't say it was hard. It was just about
focus and no one what we liked and basically, you know,

(37:17):
as you know, collecting stuff that feels and sounds like
break beats. So when you're saying no, give me the
green snare, and you know exactly why you're going forward,
and everybody else might just be oblivious. It's a similar
process of just getting through it. But I never thought
it was. The equipment always started the engineering and I
just never had the you know, until I heard Back

(37:38):
to Black men, I was like, Okay, then it is
possible to achieve the sound. But even then, once I
mean once I figured it out, it was you know,
like by a two thousand and ten, almost like even
five six years after Back to Black came out, I
just yeah, I mean we we really worked at it.
And then new stuff that I did, even in York

(38:00):
that kind of has that type of energy for me.
It was a thing where I was collecting records and
I always liked the records. So my dad was like,
Lupa Vanels. I'm like, all right, cool. But the reason
why I was sampling incredible bongo bands because of the sonics.
It wasn't just because King Ericson was killing. Then when
Michael Vener gave me a bunch of things, I was
still trying to figure out. I think I might even

(38:21):
send you one one time. When we did Loves Theme,
I was trying to make the sonic feel as urgent,
you know, And that's really what it is like. You know,
even when I'm recording nas, I'm trying to get the
sonic energy. So I'm standing next to that speak and
I feel like I'm moving. I'm imagining with Paradise Garage
feels like I'm imagining with the red zone feels like
I'm imagining what the fever sounds like. And if the
sonic warfare as I call it, doesn't actually hit you

(38:46):
the way it should, that's as important as the lyrics
being stronger than the kick. If the lyrics hit you
the right waist red without a pouse, like, how do
we get back to that? That's intensity in the samples.
That's also intensity and engineering insensity and the lyrics. It's
about the way it's all coming together and then ultimately
how it's captured. If that song had a different mix,

(39:07):
it might not have ever been what it was. And
I think that, you know, having that understanding and feeling
that way about certain pieces of music, I'm twisting knobs
until I feel it, which leads me to we're getting
to the end of this journey. But let's start the
rapid fire ship the random questions, which leads me to
get retarded. Now, yeah, with Cannabis. Oh he produced that?

(39:32):
Yesys did that record? I thought did though no. Ship
was first of all, what what with the Hawaiian guitar thing?
And it was just it was such a radical record

(39:53):
that I I liked it, but I was just like, why,
what the hell was? So basically what um some people
do they now call it, I think rhythm let or
something like that. I had a wall of records in
my apartment and what I say is, grab me three records,
and whatever three records you grab, I gotta make something.
And that's the three records I pulled to that day,

(40:15):
l A Boppers, Chantey and Biz and I Want You.
And that's where it came from. So I basically had
those records and I was like, uh, one to get
retard And that's what I picked off of the records.
I could have sampled something else off the records, but
that's what I caught and how it fell together now

(40:37):
and and recording that. I'm certain that the energy and
the excitement was in the air because the buzz on
cannabis couldn't get any hotter. It was like, what the
energy that Eminem had. I feel like Eminem is the
And we can't discount the fact that eminem'ss uh, we
can't discount whiteness, right, we can't. Just but what I'm

(41:01):
just saying that at one time in there was hope
and energy in the air that Cannabis was going to
be the underground lyricle man beast from the East that
lost boys joint like yes, like his win a Wars
versus the very, Yes, the very Even the first time
I met Jay through Common, he was like, Yo, I

(41:21):
can't wait to hear this Cannabis right, can see what
he got? So, boy, what were your feelings of what
went wrong? What did you say? That was the first
CD I ever sold? Back to the story, Well, no,
I thought That's what I thought. Why I left did

(41:41):
that record because I didn't like, I didn't like that joint? No, no, no, no.
It took a minute, but it was just like when
I heard the Hawaiian Loop and I was just like,
all right, this is obviously some next ship that I'm

(42:02):
just not up board. You're not ready for. So did
you kill Cannabis one of the No, that was actually
one of the only joints that's sun I like sund knockout,
But I knew it was at least all time time

(42:23):
watch nine your mom your first, second, and third, and
I knew it was over for Cannabis. Like I don't
know if you'll remember, like when they used to have
the thing, it was on MTV, and it was like
basically they would like play a video and then they
would have like people like talking about it, give their
opinions whatever. And yeah, it was like a kiss of
this type joint. And they played uh Cannabis Second Round Knockout,

(42:46):
and I remember it was like these four like teenage
like white kids and they were all like, oh, well,
you know he's he just sounds so angry and you know,
he just this guy just like they were like this
in the bregad And when I said, I was just like,
it's it's a rap because the hood like this. We
loved it. That was like the hip hop has loved
that record. But when I saw that, I mean my

(43:10):
perspective on Cannabis record. First, I didn't expect him to
keep that track because we did that one, but we
all just sold did the record called Doomsday News, which
was the track that Wild Cleft used for where Fooji's
at years later thing to that boom boom boom start
us off the Eclectic album. It's the first song. So

(43:33):
that was actually on Cannabis's album. And you know that
was the track that at one point Hayes Shockley, you
know two weighted me or something at the time and
asked me to do beats for public enemy things. So
that's what my mindset was with it. That was the
song I actually thought he was going to keep because
it meant something. For whatever reason, he decided not to
use it. And I think, you know, Cannabis had beat

(43:53):
selection issues and as far as I was gonna signed,
but basically, he always had the lyrics, but he just
kind of pushed the wrong way with it. And the
things that I actually recorded with him that people never
heard was I made him switch his floor. I was, like,
you said, the best m C died on Marsh ninth.
Look how many different flows big he has. Now you're
just rhyming, rhyming, rhyming to the point where somebody, but man,

(44:15):
there's a guy downstairs. He was ronning crazy. I just
Cannabis ignore him. And then after a while, you rabbity
wrapped yourself to a point where no one actually would
hear how great your lyrics were because you gave it
to all to us in the same cadence, which was unfortunate.
And you know, I did a lot of records with
him that I thought were really dope, but he just
basically I don't need to change my flows. The lyrics,

(44:40):
he just he turned into a computer really. I mean
he would rhyme and he was front of the first
people I saw that would write their rhymes and the
computer and be moving it around. But it was just like,
you're so smart, You're out smarter, justself to the human connection,
to the actual ability to really have a conversation in
your songs on top of being able to wrap really well.
Every cannabis experience I had starts with a start in

(45:05):
the beat, like him getting on stage and then like
mid first wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait,
and then he has to let you know exactly what
he said, yeah, because that's in the movie Surprise, Like

(45:27):
and that's the thing is like, if if you have
to explain the punch line, then it's not a good
punch line. If you don't get it, just off rip
if you gotta break down, and that ship is you
got wasn't That album was one of the many things
that happened that just really killed the momentum that the

(45:51):
idea of New York was having a hip hop and
MC yeah the time there's yeah that was their free style.
I mean, you know, success, right, but that was That
was like the cole Kendrick Drake was the makes Cannabis
Nori freestyle on not any seven and they all seemed

(46:12):
like they had to go and just Cannabis didn't keep
delivering records. That's all it comes down to. You know,
having the greatest talent, being the best musician doesn't mean
you're the best composer. Being the best thing, it doesn't
mean you have a good song. So is that the
producer's responsibility or is that the artists? Sometimes the artist
has too much power and they just don't want to
get out of their own way. You know, we all
know some really really great talent that can't make a
record or get it together. You know, thirty years in,

(46:35):
I can play you records that I did twenty years ago. Wow,
this is great. Whatever happens to him, let me try
to find them. We drive up the right alley, yo.
Like that. That's what it is, and it's unfortunate, but
it's real. Jasmine talk about Jasmine um, Jasmine Sullivan. It's

(46:56):
for me. It's like, you know, kind of where I
want to be a core business, great voice, great stories,
and then I just got to find a good baseline
and you know, I worked with Jazmin when she was
on job when she was thirteen and fourteen, so we
already had somewhat of familiarity by the time she was
on J Records, and then Peter Edge really wanted her

(47:17):
to sing. She cut a version of There's a song
like Keian Bryson really did that was on odds Up
and There's a whold on the Trade and like that
that thing basically she cut a version of it. But
then during that session we also did Lions, Tigers and
Bears and another song, and basically she sang Lions, Tigers
and beards the idea. I was like, all right, hold up,

(47:37):
gave her a click track and then I just started
playing around it, and then she finished the song to
the track. And that became my mode of working where
she might sing me an idea or tell me an
idea of accord and then I would flush it out,
you know. Ten seconds was like that, she had the thing,
and then I just took it, played it and expanded
on it whatever she was hearing. But our chemistry, um,

(47:59):
just like you certain people, I have large bodies of
work where just because we just work together when we
work and I probably have forties songs with Jasmine, then
describe her her songwriting, because I feel like that's one
of the appeals to Jasmine too, the way she yea
to the point that the reality is that you know, unfortunately, unfortunately,

(48:22):
I've been able to work with a lot of people
who write autobiographically. So there's a lot of stuff she
said in the songs that she either went through or
she did. Not much of it is just straight up imagine.
And then now when they're at a really happy point
in the life for a certain point, so they don't
know how they feel about the song, so then that's
not necessarily what they want to express at that point.
I put it that slows down the records coming up.

(48:45):
I'll put it this way. You and I both know, uh,
the victim who got his car busted? We do anyway, No,
it's it's like that. And always did you work on
the second album? I worked on all albums today. I
played drums on I don't know if you record that's

(49:06):
what the one? Okay, they brought me the track and
I played. But when I was listening to the lyrics,
I was like, yeah, redemption song did go to this ship? Yeah? No,
she didn't. That's the same person that she did the
other thing. Bro, that's all that's that she went through
those lyrics and redemption because the lyrics and redemption one
versus her as the person who's doing it, and the

(49:29):
other verses her experiencing it. But did herself, did she
go through that ship? Yeah? All right. They brought me
a song redemption to you know, just put put your
drums on it. And I didn't bother to even listen
to the song before I started. I just I said, Steve,
you know, put it on the reel and I'm gonna
drum to it first take. And my jaw was dropping

(49:52):
because me and like a knew Jasmine when she was
sneaking in the Black Lily as as a ten year older.
This is the same person to whom, like her dad
and rich with Big the club owner let this nine
year old girl come upstairs this day, goes everywhere with her.

(50:12):
But all right, you know she does everything. Yeah, man,
So some of that was also metaphorical. Yeah the rock
I need. You asked, what's supposed to be here? But
I need that rock Like that's I get it. But
it's just still the fact that this ain't the year

(50:34):
on my mind all the time is I'm just like,
she's a mature like, you know, so what are her
just her goals and what she wants because I also
know that she feels a certain way that the world's
embracing Adele who is her age and not her And yes,

(50:56):
besides the captain obvious reasons, well she's mentioned that, you know,
we're well, I don't even know if she's on social
media anymore. Will pop up once every month or two.
I mean, the thing is right now. I mean I
was around a few months ago. I just think she's happy,
you know, because with many people when they get to
work and when they're really young, at some point they

(51:18):
want to catch up on life and not necessarily revolved
their life around of recording or touring schedule. So from
what I can capture, that's just where it's at. And
she has music, like you know, we got together for
a couple of days, and chemistry wise, stuff comes up
all the time. It's just is that the priority is
this record right now. You know, I think some music's

(51:38):
gonna come out really soon though, but in general, you know, yeah,
could you do that insecure? All right? Cool? It's not
she she would just do it, but it's Jasmine's pen
is next, next, next level. And I think for me
it was the thing where when I first worked with her,
you know, the labels like get Harold, Lily and get
this person in and I was like nah. And by

(51:59):
working onlines and kas and then brush the windows, they
were able to see that her pen was better than
everyone else's. The same with you know, helping Lawrence pain
from Fooji time into where it became, or helping Miguel,
you know, who had written many songs but kind of
helping them focus on different things with all I want
to use helping uh, Jasmine be able to folk Amy,

(52:21):
you know Amy, he had different people that wrote you
sent me flying stuff with her, but her pen was
better than everyone else's. And you know, I kind of playoff.
I asked the right questions while we're recording to help
people kind of do it, and then I make them
do it on their own. And sometimes it's challenging that
they get mad and don't like it, and sometimes they
actually rise to the occasion. When you walked in earlier,

(52:45):
you talked about working on Miguel's new record, UM, which
is a total He was not the artist I expected
him to be, like when when he first came out
the bet again, I thought, it's just a regular R
n B artist yawing, and he he's stepped outside of
that box, So I mean, how how how did he
manage to do that? Like is I think? Um? Once again,

(53:08):
I was just seeing all the possibilities, you know, from
All I Wanted You, Tim, that wasn't necessarily who he was.
Mcgellar been signed since I think he was fifteen or sixteen,
and he did Quickie and Shut Thing, which were you know,
his number ones while he was still in another production
deal years ago. So by the time he was really
getting a chance to make his record, it was really
kaleidoscope dream and we actually did how Many Drinks and

(53:34):
All I Wanted You this first day I met him.
When we first saw out how Many Drinks, He's like
his two R and B. I don't want to be
in the Donald Jones land. I'd rather do something else,
give me something, and he said he didn't want to
do that, so he was like, YO, give me something
with guitars. So that's why I did All. I gave
him All I Wanted You track, which I originally made
for Celo, but it was just like his guitars. Yes,
So then he went for it and it became what

(53:56):
it was, and it was still like him trying to
find himself because he's like, this is so East Coast
and as you went Mark with that New York, I'm
from the West coast alright, cool, here take this Lyray
Schifford beef, you know, And that became clido scope Dream
because I gave him the dre beat equivalent of the opposite,
and then he clido scope Dream and then he played
the entrance on the part of the middle. But the
end of the day, his signature Joan today is a

(54:18):
dorn which is all produced by Miguel. That's him, you know,
and his studio closet room, you know, in the late
night just zoning, and you know, he has one of
those before I let go at lives at the end
where people just know that song down to a certain
point and he's developed into that. And then you know,
his last album wild Heart, he did a lot of
stuff that maybe he wasn't received the way he wanted to,

(54:39):
but that's part of you know, the creative long term
process where you just make a record or y'all don't
hear it yet. Okay, Cool, y'all get back to that one.
Take another one here, here's where you are now. So
you know, Scott Walker has been something different and come through,
and Chill was just me pushing him, you know, he
didn't feel like recording, and I went and sat on

(54:59):
the kid and started just hitting the sticks and being funny.
And then eventually I was like, let's put on soundclouds tonight, tonight,
let's go, and then he you know, I got him
to do it a few days later, but we put
it up and it's been there for a couple of years.
But still people like the song. They like what they like,
and you can't stop that. So two years later, Cool
coldes on it and it's the new single the video shot. Alright, Cold,

(55:21):
that's great. But for me, Miguel still hasn't even really
hosted all of his potential yet. He's still four albums
and he probably got another five or six in them.
When you did Mac wild stuff, I'm still calling them
Michael Lee from the Wild and I was when he said,

(55:41):
like I was working with Salem Me, I'm like, I
was like, yeah, out of here, I never knew, Um,
are you going to continue to work with him, and uh,
and how are you able to convince him when he
could have easily? Uh? You know, going young, you know
that this ship right more than anything else. How we

(56:04):
first thanked up was um. I was in l A
when I met him, and then we he would always
come out the studio and we'll be talking about the
lack of duck sauce in l A and just like real,
you know, missing New York basically. So he would come
by and I was a fan of him from the wire,
but he was out there doing that on two and No.
But he would come by my sessions while I was
working on Miguel or C. J. Hilton or whoever else.

(56:26):
He just be around me doing stuff. And I heard
him singing on something that I think um work when
Warren Campbell worked on his record called Cold that he
had and I heard and I was like, m okay, cool,
your voice is getting there. And he had some ability.
But I was also jumping off my label at Sony,
and I was like, all right, cool, here's the one
to punch. If you can sing these records, then I

(56:47):
can cut an album on you in the mouth. Everybody's
gonna love you because you're a kid from TV, and
you know, we can jump it off for a quick
and that's basically what I did over the Christmas holiday.
He cut on it, he wrote Hanny, he said, a
Rigo love song, a Fontlore song, and he nailed it.
I just brought him down in Miami for a couple
of days, and he showed more than you know, anyone's

(57:10):
potential thought of him. So I was like, cool, soon
as you finish TV and March, we're gonna cut your
album in a month, you're gonna shot some videos and
then I have you done before you gotta go back
to TV. And that album became what it was. But
it also it was definitely Grammy nominated and it felt right.
And also it's just like a stamping time. That's how
I felt about it. You know, at that time, I

(57:30):
stopped kind of doing records, but I just really felt
like it was a good expression of how we felt
about New York. Arm but now so quarter at the
time when everybody in New York was like Atlanta is
taking over Ago, Eric b for president, everybody for president.
Oh mom d was my favorite drink. And then what
I did was, instead of sampling the old Records. I
went to Premo, I went to Pete, I went to

(57:52):
Having and was like, Nah, you're gonna produce it with me,
get your disc out and now cut them a check
rather than paying a sample for something else. So Primo
went back to the disk and got me the group
home pieces and reprogrammed it. People pulled out SPW. We
did that, you know, havoc redid that beat that wasn't
actually the sample, but we was able to kind of

(58:13):
put it together, and then they got their points, they
got publishing, they got new bread and that to me
was also me, you know, paying back my computer, paying
back my community, because if I would have cleared a sample,
they still would never seen the check off for it.
But Mac was still and he was the perfect artist
because at the end of the day he had the
link to Wuchang. He had that, and then he had
to nano to one of It was like when the

(58:34):
first time when Meth came to the studio to do
the hook on on the album, he was like, Who've
been messing with him? I was like, what you mean,
Like who who you been messing with? I'm like, what
are you talking about? Things like like who who's been
doing this stuff. I was like, oh me, he's like,
cause I heard some stuff before sounding he was in
a little you know, rat house with his boys. It

(58:54):
sounded like a whole novel level. But once again I
saw the potential on him, like he still has more
potential than these actually realized. And then his last project,
After Hours, is something that he did. We didn't love
in the nineties when he was doing the breaks on
the show, so we had like some projects, some songs
we didn't put out, and then you know, he was
moving on to doing other stuff. So he did his
Body and Clive record of while A and he had

(59:16):
his After Hours record that he wanted to put out,
and I was like, you know what, just go ahead
and do do it your way. But I still you know, yeah,
for sure, for sure it's like no a little bro basically,
and he still passed through. Y'all got come to Miami
and vibe with you or whatever it is. I probably
seeing them all. Okay, how did Hiatus? How did you
discover them? Uh? Deep Prosper Actually Deep Prosper. Deep Prosper

(59:43):
actually brought that to me and was like, Yo, this
is band there on band camp. They're kind of crazy.
You know, you're doing some stuff with your labor sowing
tell me from something there, And I was basically walking
around sown me going if I had a young Amy winehouse,
where am I going to put that out? So I
went to the master Works Jazz Classical department and Chuck Mitchell,

(01:00:03):
who was at Verve and did many different things and work,
you know, and downbeating things over the years, and it
was a great writer and as well. I was like, look,
I want to bring back Buddha records because so only
owned Buddha, but they didn't have it for the world.
So then I was like, well, since you can't do Buddha,
let me do Flying Buddha, which is you know, flying
Dutchment meets Buddha and Hi. This was you know, they

(01:00:26):
didn't want to do a deal with anybody, but they
wanted to work with me. So that was just something
great that I was able to pick up what they
already had and talked Tomahawk sent it to Tip, who
doesn't like most stuff. He surprisingly said he wanted to
rhyme on it. Cool. I was nominated and then for
their second album, I was able to kind of get
in and I didn't really mess with them too much
on a Lithen record. I WASNA, there was a lot

(01:00:50):
that the album is like, No, there's basically I took
all of our schooling and everything we ever know imported
in one record. They got it off their chests, But
at the same time, it was so much being there there.
Breathing under Water still got nominated, and you know, Drake's
and Drake sample the beginning of Building a Ladder, which
is the only two things that I mess with them about.

(01:01:11):
I made them recutting Breathing under Water until it felt
like what I saw them doing. Boiler on one a
rooftop that's really their performance, and um Building the Ladder.
You know, the intro wasn't right when you get a
group like that, like are you ever afraid that you'll
take because what makes them unique is that they're not pop,
that they're not easily digestible. But it's also like, do

(01:01:35):
you feel like I wouldn't be a smart producer if
I didn't tell them this is a hook, this is
sixteen bars, this is UM. I think it was partially that,
And I mean they really want to be their own
thing anyway, so they didn't really feel that type of
pressure for me. Um. Sometimes they palm will definitely be like,
I don't want to make pop songs, but my thing
is like, do I do? That's the way I kind

(01:01:55):
of look at it with them. If we go to
Stevie's do I do? All those notes in the middle
of the hook cool? That sounds like something Hiatus might
want to play. So a little bit less, return to Forever,
a little bit more do I do. Still, They're gonna
be who they are and really be musically pushing the
envelope at all times. But if we could still get
something in between it that actually, you know, sticks there

(01:02:17):
because it ultimately Knockamara was great, but it was love
you a whole bunch of times in the middle, and
nobody really knew that she was talking about something a
lot deeper than that. But it was like handing my darling,
love you, Okay, we know what you said. That was it? So,
and then they have other songs that they'll develop to it.
That's the way I felt about it, you know, in
the album or two. I don't think any artist just
nails their whole life. They kind of got to get

(01:02:38):
to that point and now they're at the point where
you know, they're recording now and it's gonna come out different.
Was my record on that on the Tutor Weapon, that
was that that album is just like it's like it's
it's a double album. To me, it's like every song
has three different changements, moves and changes. But they also
and it took a lot out of them, so now
they probably do shorter packages and have more because they

(01:03:00):
still you know, they found dedicated fans who will sit
there for three hours and not know all the words,
but they will try their best to and like, yeah,
I mean, I'm amazed by their actual overall talent and
then also what they get out of just being for
them on stage. They kill it most of the times.
They don't even have backgrounds. Are there any artists that

(01:03:22):
you regret not working with that you should have or
you know, any close calls? Um I was hard to
do and it didn't happen or nah, I think that. Um.
The only thing that I can said is that sometimes
things don't happen when they could have. I can't say
that there's a real regret. You know, some of the

(01:03:43):
most talented people I've met I haven't gotten a chance
to make records with. You know, there's alltist called Uh.
We put out an EP called House of Cry by
a girl named Cry and Chicago, probably one of the
most talented, savant level people I've ever met, just as
far as engineers, records and selves. Sings octaves and octaves,

(01:04:05):
but just marketing wise, I couldn't pull it together as
a label to make her management. Dad management all of
it work. But at the end of the day, you know,
I have sixty songs somewhere that I felt like still
give me goose bumps at first note. You know, across
the board, I think that there are opportunities where some
people just don't actually meet their mark, and hopefully at

(01:04:26):
some point they will. You know, it's almost like a
lot of Sugarman's out there. Any one House of Crime
EPs out there. Okay, it's it's actually it's it's it's
really strong. Did we miss anything? I mean, well, there's
the gazillion things you've done that we didn't go. Did
you do the ziggy uh toss it up? The low
key remix that all jiggie stuff I produced. That was

(01:04:49):
my first group that Dad was basically like, uh, you
going to school. So I was in school for business
management and I was like, well, I need six months
off to do this album. So after that, if I
don't get in the work, I'll go back to school.
I never went back. So that was my first full project.
So the Roots album, no thoughts, you know, the flow

(01:05:15):
of it. Yeah, well we didn't reveal everything, alright, cool,
I didn't understand what We just let that slide test
the five people. Great, thank you anyway, this this damn
near a double episode, ye thank Jesus. A two week anyway, Salim, yo, man,
this is probably it's one of my I love these.

(01:05:37):
I didn't know you do that did that episode where
you know it comes out and and and for real, man,
like seriously, like just as a kid like growing up,
whenever I saw Salim remy remix on a record and
it was official, I caught it. So just thank you
for all you did. You know, it was thanks And
it's so crazy that you just said as a kid,
because I'm sitting there going, yeah, sometimes I feel it

(01:05:59):
and some times I feel it like I'm thirty. I'm
thirty nine, like working every like super cat dollar dollar baby,
but get around. Yeah, that was like ninety two. That
was we also have to get you on chat with sugar,
which is even even deeper rabbit hole of information of music.

(01:06:21):
Wait a minute, we like that. Wait speaking of Instagram, Yeah,
because you and Steve, You and Steve do something very
worry and your Instagram is nothing but just clips at
the moment. First of all, how do you just take
them on? From YouTube and YouTube? Sometimes daily motion? Just
looking for stuff? Sometimes I'm actually searching on Instagram just
by hashtagut of ideas, like you know what it was

(01:06:46):
for me um over the last year. Um, I really
felt like it's just like that thing. You know. We
get to a point in life where we made a
lot of records and I'm like, okay, why am I
making these? You know, when I'm working with artists, I'm
making records too. Oh so what do you want to
do to say? Or you like this? So you don't
like that? Okay, I'm catering to them. I'm cooking for them.
And I needed to get to a point where if

(01:07:07):
I'm just making what I want to make. Erased the
black boy, he craise the white board. This is just
me hearing it. I wanted to find my baseline. I
wanted to figure out where it was. So then I
looked at it like core business, great voices, great baseline is,
great stories. So I just started looking at different people,
Marvin Gay, Dennis Brown, the people I really liked, and

(01:07:27):
then looking at just watching clips of people saying to
see what's coming out of their mouth. Seeing I'm still
looking for that voice. I'm looking to be wild by
somebody who can do it, but that also knows how
to tell a story and write it. So that's really
where it was born from. So I just stopped putting
pictures of myself online, which they haven't been any since
last year May, and then just continue to feed music

(01:07:48):
and talk to me through that firewall I mean talking
about that. Then social media ain't really got nothing to say.
But as we get further and further away from the church, right, um,
do you think it's even remotely possible now for those
unique voices, like for me, like I love drums so
much because he has a voice that's like when I

(01:08:13):
first seven, it's like like old dirty bass or whatever,
like just a very unique sounding voice. Do you feel
as though like it might sound different if because it's mustache,
I'm just playing us no, But I've been like no, no, no,
and not feel it's to find unique voices. I'm looking

(01:08:34):
for that. This there's still something that I feel like
is uh tribal for me, for all of us. There's
still a level of you know, they'll have my tator
salad uh concept where I just like, no, you go
to any person that label, say how I made a record,
call who made the tater salt, and every black person
Americans gonn bib. We're gonna sell for many copies. They
don't know what I'm talking about. Doug Morris, Clide Davis,

(01:08:56):
Jimmy Ivin Lousen cool. But if you go to the
most black American people and go this is basically how
I kept live alive. On Jasmine's first album, peter Um,
It's tatus leave it alone. What do you mean? This
is something that I feel that's a buttle leather and
some same spoon throom. It was not a jam that
just saying it's a number one, it's not a copyright,

(01:09:18):
but it's something that's making me know that she knows
where I know, she's giving me something that takes me home.
And when we hear those songs, when we hear the
songs that are on our barbecue playlists, when we hear
that music that resonates with it. When we hear cranes
in the sky, what is that? Where did that happen before?
I don't know where it happened before, but it feels right,
it's under my skin. I think that that's what we're

(01:09:40):
missing as far as even the analog conversation, the analog
no motion that happens with musicians is that, you know,
sometimes when I'm just trying to show writers or you know,
I'm do camps in my house, sometimes I'm like, everybody's
singing amazing grace. Just pick a note and we're just saying,
I put your hands out while we do it. We
just feel it. There's something else, a resonance and vocal
as a residence in the sonics, as residence in the

(01:10:02):
music that needs to happen. Yeah. So I mean just
just within it. I just feel like that there's something
sonically that happens. That's how I feel about when the
organ hits this at a certain time, I want to
still feel open, but I also need that movement because
if I ain't getting that thing, no, I like this
this heron level of music that's gonna take me somewhere. Wow.

(01:10:24):
Ox Steal gravy, brown stool, souls something dogs. Yeah, there
we go. I thank you very much. We're coming on.
Question Restupian, thanks for having me. I'm not the opportunity
to run my mouth. Oh man, this is my favorite
moments you know, of of the industry of the show. Learn.

(01:10:46):
It's like, we could probably do enough with like five
hours if I start asking you questions. But we'll get
to that. I have one more question. Come on, you
guys want me to ask this question? Because what's the
what's the like We're going to have a hip hop
pioneer from New York and not as Oh that's a

(01:11:19):
I can see you and hope ship fucky Latin quarters
that they would clown me because I would always have
Latin quarter questions for all of our mid mid classic
era hip hop acts, and they got tired of me
asking Latin quarter questions. All the different people always kind
of tell more or less the same. It's like, like,

(01:11:43):
what did it? Lad? I can tell you what's your
you have? I've been a ling quarter couple I played
for real. You just has a Mexican boy singing she

(01:12:05):
worked um Latin quarter. I've been there twice when my
dad was doing promotion, so then he would take me
with him. No, I saw, you know, you take me
up to be a lessie miss the magic. I gotta
get something the red alert. So I went in the
Latin Quarter. Paradise was outside at the door. Um Stevie D. Yeah,

(01:12:26):
I was like fourteen. I was an ice cap. I
had a Curtis blow record out. I was propping. But basically,
uh Stevie D from Foursome D was there in the mink.
Jerry curls on top, fade airrings in his head. Everything.
He had a he had a bodyguard with him, pretty
much the same thing. His name was Katon. He looked.

(01:12:49):
It's like basically strong, ranguting colored coat, light skinned, almost
like a freckle faced redhead dude. But mad Cock diesel
because you know, Latin quarters are really rough. But CVD
from force of these what's going in there? You know
that guess was right around tend the love time. Maybe
just after that. Um I walked upstairs. You go up

(01:13:11):
turn around because also I'd always like being over there
because the arcade was right underneath what the Lton Corse
this was. So that block there was an arcade, and
that where you can pretty much walk through between Seventh
Avenue and Broadway underneath where that was that and whenever
we were at studios an area, I always want to
go to the arcade. But anyhow, we get up in
the Laton quarters. I see Scott la rock Um standing down,

(01:13:32):
stays about the booth. I see Eric b I see
biz Red Alert's up in the booth. My Dad's like,
stay right here, I'm gonna get Red Alert the record
Red Alert teases the beginning of Rubbel without a pause.
Brothers and sisters. He see some kids running from the back,
like yo, he about to play it. He about to
play it. They get over to the dance floor, brothers

(01:13:54):
and sisters. I don't know if this world is coming
to Rebel comes on. That's probably one of the first
times I'm hearing it, and the kids in the middle
of the dance floor doing like the crazy dances to
revel with out a pause. No, no, had a question

(01:14:19):
for you, Just we remember we have you said before
we get out. He can at least get one of
his three out. I was just saying, what's your questions? Yes,
I'll have some music ready for you to critique and
let him ask you. You don't know what he about
ain't even going there. Um, Actually it's something something a
lot more. I heard a story about you doing something

(01:14:39):
with your drum technique, whereas and you were slowing tapes
down crazy and then speeding them up with a really
big kick. But I wasn't really clear on your process
of doing that, Like was that like something that you developed?
How did you arrive at I'm going to stow this
tape speeding on were very speaking because once I discovered

(01:15:01):
that Prince was very speed and his voice on Erotic City,
and really Stevie Wonder was very speed and his voice
on maybe your Baby, um early roots demos or back
when we were Black to the Future. I had my
dad's task him four track thing. I realized, like, oh

(01:15:22):
I can slewe drew drawing, you know, And so I
guess I was being a you know, the a pseudo.
I was trying to figure out, like, uh, techniques to
to get a better kick sound. So I'll say, for

(01:15:44):
like a lot of the do you Want More record,
I would uh, I would play the initial drum tracks
at at a at a higher was I ps s
Steve yeah, yeah, higher? And then and then we and
it was low. I mean it really didn't. It only

(01:16:05):
served me well for you got me, you would slow
it down. You totally blank yourself. You said we would
go high and then we would oh and then slow
down normal. I mean, yeah, it's too saying you got
me is where you crystallize it, because it actually worked
to the level where you wanted to. It got all
the way through. Well, yeah, that's not the natural sneares down.
I very speeded the tape down and you got me there.

(01:16:26):
I always wanted you to it the whole thing. Once
Jill and Scott did, uh, Jill and Scott, that's funny.
I was going to details. No, jillan Scott did the
initial track to a click track, and then I came
in afterwards to um to drum to it. At first

(01:16:50):
I did it normal and then it sounds special. So
then I very speed at the tape slow and drum
to it. And then when we played it back at
normal speed, it sounds like a higher pitch. And then
when I was like, oh I could do drumming bass.
This is like my favorite. Thank you, it's not my favorite,
but you know, like when can you do part two
to that song? Like can you finish it? And it

(01:17:10):
just really go in water. I've done it before. I
didn't want break you off. I didn't water and break
you off. My trick on break you off was I
didn't want y'all to think that we were like being
greasy R and B. So at the mastering session, I
was like, yo, just give me two days, and I said,
I gotta add three more minutes of this song to

(01:17:32):
wash away what you thought was the greasy harpy songs.
Because break you Off that Gerald LeVert is all right
versions a story, and Gerald LeVert actually gave the better performance.
I will say that somewhere, well, ship, I don't know.
Maybe the phrenology ls to burn to I don't know. Yeah,

(01:17:57):
like a lot of a lot of universals reels and
old movies like Lot number five, which unfortunately is the
I guess he said, the letters P through T got damaged. Um,
so we lost all of do you want more? We
can't find do you want where? I can't find three
songs on, I can't find no Great Pretender episodes or

(01:18:23):
uh uh uh have you seen it? Probably I can't
find that the two inch reels, nor the dats nor
the half inch reels. So yeah, like pretty much we
owned the masses to those songs. Yeah, I think about like, yeah,

(01:18:44):
like thirty I think like thirty three of our reels
got this story and a lot of do you want
more so as far as like extras and yeah that's
not happen. How now we definitely got two part anyway,
Thank you, Thank you as someone for coming guys when
we have a boss Bill and pay Bill Sugar, Steve

(01:19:06):
Star of Chat one ship in Sugar Network on the
Sugar Network, our own Ted Turner fon Siglo and it's like, yeah,
this is quest love uh and this is Course. Why
do I sound so tired? This is Love Supreme. We'll
see you next go around. Thank you Course. Love Supreme

(01:19:37):
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