QLS Classic: Usher

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to QLs Classic Episode twenty four
with Persha, made two thousand seventeen. He's one of the
brightest stars of the post MJ generation, and we get

(00:20):
to chop it up with Usher about his life growing
up in the spotlight, not to mention the pressures of
keeping that light bright. We get confessional about doing it
his way. We hope you enjoy Usher QLs Classic. Thank you.

(00:44):
Roll Call Rogue Rogue q u E Yeah, st yeah,
l O v E. Yeah, tell what you wanted to

(01:08):
Roma Rogue, I taste the name. Yeah, I got so
many tricks. Yeah, I should have won that Oscar yea
for in the nick some ground Premar Sugar Sugar Steve. Yeah,

(01:32):
this is my confession. Yeah, I love we We already
greet roll Prima Prima Rogue. This this boss Bill. Yeah,
I got to have some fun. Yeah, I've been away
for a while. Yeah, I had to get the guns

(01:54):
something Rogue. Plus I'm paid Bill. Yeah, so what's the deal. Yeah,
I've been watching the West Wing. Yeah, pretending it's real
roma Roadma rogue, It's yeah, I'm already called up. Yeah

(02:21):
was usher? Yeah, I don't give a fun pre roll okayma,
yeah my name is Yeah, I'm he with Team Supreme. Yeah.
What y'all doing in here? Yeah? Man, I don't know
what the hell oh Rima roll, Suprima rogue, Suma subprimo roll.

(02:58):
That was cool, Lead you survive. I'll admit that uh
US is the first guests, of course Love Supreme to
actually have known of the theme before it was unleashed.
You know, for those that are wondering about the themes,

(03:19):
we never tell our guests what the theme is, like,
we just you know, I was trying to think some
funny shi to say the whole tel wrote down a
whole bunch of ship that I didn't use them, like
like maybe if I just have a few catch words,
it'll just come to me somehow, some way. Some of
the best moments of Quest of Supreme is when we

(03:41):
mess up. Well, in case you haven't guest, ladies and gentlemen,
UH In the ongoing tradition of adding members to the roots,
as if there's not enough UH members already, I think
users is going to be probably remember number seventeen. Still

(04:05):
ye figrowing out I want residuals on everything in line
with the rest of the Root's son. No, ladies and gentlemen,
Uh please uh welcome uh friend of the show, Uh,
friend of the roots, friend of of music. Music was

(04:26):
yeah of music, um usser Aloisious Raymond the Fourth? What's
your middle name? Alois I don't know. I mean, you know,
like they're they're killing they're killing all my Cosby dreams.
But I don't know, like Field's middle name Aloisious Huxtable
that you didn't know that? What's the what's the symbolic

(04:47):
meaning or word that wording? I don't know. It just
means that you put a lot of thought into the
middle name. If you name that, it could be like
attached somewhere to like the family roots or something. Well, yeah,
if I don't know the person, I'm just saying that you.
I mean, you're first of all, ladies and gentlemen, please
welcome us. We got right into so you said it

(05:08):
just as it is. I don't have a mindal name. No,
I don't have a name Usher Raymond. How many people there?
You go, there you go, let's talk about it, like, yeah,
that means you're you're you're grant your whole lineags escaped
Hell make serious? I know, I know, yeah, joking, but

(05:29):
serious when your son is five, right, he's the fist
And who was the first usher? What did he do?
I mean he worked in the theater, I guess, I
don't know with theaters back then. Understand, you are obviously
now we all were obviously given names by our slave owners,
so you know, or either within the trade of what

(05:50):
it is that was significant in that time. So I
think that maybe it had something to do with you know,
being a server or something. I don't know, snap, but
I'm so late on that joke. Yeah, like I don't
even have a sound effect. So my entire career, you
thought it was a joke, Like my name really wasn't. No, No,

(06:11):
I knew I should was your name, but I didn't
think about us your being a given name and it
really being like maybe it was somebody who was the
ushered church from back in the day, or we just
were having church back then. You know what I'm saying,
they're using that's how that's how we found Jesus. Absolutely,
So even though your freestyle on this, I would almost

(06:34):
lean towards believing that's probably how there's some truth to it.
I don't know. Yeah, but I become curious within the
last two years. You know what I did. I did
like you did? I did, and also to have been
doing a lot of us Yeah why not necessarily with
you know, get but but the point is just to

(06:56):
understand where I come from. Where are you? I'm West African?
We all are, isn't it true? I mean the research
that comes back on every person that I've ever asked
that West or either you haven't chosen to look have you?
I have not not yet yet. Well that's good because
that gives you an opportunity to do something to the

(07:18):
initial I'm scared of giving DNA like that just feels
like I feel like I'm giving DNA and opportunities to
this skill the next I'm kind of sucked up. But
but I have looked at it. I'm you got some
kids on the books. You know, did you give DNA
to make money many years ago? At some point did
I give DNA? Gave play? She was real. It was

(07:42):
a rough time, but you know, and I got it.
Bet you know, I got my blood, you got the
TV back ship was real. His first album on My
Way to the Clinic. Well, yeah, I did that test
and I found out what they told me that both

(08:04):
of my parents were from Sierra Leo. But I'm gonna
I'm gonna do Skip Gates is one. Uh he had
to show on PBS, Henry Lewis Gates, Henry Skow. Yeah,
that's it. Yeah, yeah, just kind of at least have
some track. I mean, none of us are, you know,

(08:25):
pure blood from Africa. There were a lot of different
places that kind of we're mentioned in my um my
pie chart, because there's like a pie chart that they
give you and you kind of look and then you
can determine like where you want to go from there
with it, Like say you decide you want to go
back to that village, what's the truth? What what's what is?
What truth? Will you find there? Where you find the
village that you originally from, a lot of those places,

(08:47):
a lot of the places that we would go, they
now adopted the idea of being modernized and being commonized,
so so English is now applied. The true tongue of
the place is not there. So I'm, if anything, I'm
hoping that I'll go back there and there will be
some facial features that I could see if you know,
potential people, but for the most part they also to
have been mixed so many times that they're not it's

(09:08):
the original, right, it's been cut. I strongly recommend that
you need to cut it. I know you need to.
I strongly recommend that you contact Henry Lewis Gates because

(09:31):
like the level, the the thorough level of research they do.
You know, I'm gonna like for those they don't know,
like uh, I guess for four or five seasons they
were doing like all the black celebrities because of course,
you know you're gonna get a glorious story out of that.
But then when they did the Afflecks, once they started

(09:54):
doing white people, um, Henry said that we're gonna have
to to tell you the truth of yes, yes, yeah,
And it was just that been Afflecks and Casey Afflecks family.
They came from a lineage of like some probably the
meanest slave owners or they ran candy Land for real
and the real candy Land. You know, it's like, you know,

(10:17):
they didn't want that information getting out and then controversy happened,
so skipped just just like well, I'm canceling the show.
Then if you guys are gonna censor me, and you
know PBS didn't want to broadcast that episode. Now it's bad.
Let's talk about the fact that technology has now allowed
us to investigate our own lineage. And that's good. You
know what I'm saying, schools, because schools. Back when I

(10:40):
was in high school or middle school or elementary school,
we were immigrants in the books, you know what I'm saying.
So but but I'm saying, like, the gross perpetuation of
what is going on in this country has just continued
to just cycle and to the to the point where
it's like you can't even really get an education about
who you are. You can't who's gonna talk to you?

(11:03):
Or we should talk about it doing Black History Month? Well,
why the funk should we relegate our entire history to
a month? Like how about how about how about we
take the time to get the information ourselves, or either
at least do some investigation along the lines of even
just giving people an idea of what their lineage is.
Who knows it might it might or might not be true,

(11:25):
But the point is it's information and I'm happy out
I'm happy that somebody decided to do that. But why
is it that we as black people didn't come together
and figure to shoot out by ourselves. I say and say, listen,
let's put let's put this money together to begin like,
let's do a collective right. We will go around, You'll
go to any motherfucking church in the world, and there's

(11:47):
a collection plate there to keep that establishment going. But
we don't figure out a fund for ourselves to begin
to even understand our lineages and begin to like build
ourselves up, build our stags. That's why I asked you,
how did you feel when you got the information back?
Felt great? I felt great, released, like, oh I came
from somewhere, because I don't think people understand the fact.
That's what I was about to say. I don't think

(12:08):
people you know. I was overwhelmed the most because I
grew up in a time period where if you called
me African, African booty scraps, that like not really so no, no,
I'm just saying that in the early seventies, when you
called somebody African, like on the playground, I got think
hip hop though, because hip hop made me appreciate Africa.

(12:30):
That's because you were born seven eight, so in the
eighties see that five year Yet that five years I
was born in seventy different see me being born in
seventy one and being of age at nine and like
eight eighty one. That's how shame we were to even
be called that because but you know you you became

(12:52):
of age at eight or nine in eighty five, eighties,
six eighty seven. Well, they will manipulating your mind to
celebrate everything but who you were? Right? But I'm just
saying that those seven years between you and I of
the seventies, that's a generation different of thinking. Whereas you know,
but everything you become of age when public enemy is like,

(13:13):
but did you travel to Africa when you were at age? No?
Did you see pictures of Africa when you were when
you were So my point is you would being manipulated.
You noticed. I'm just I ain't telling you nothing. It
was rhetorical, but I'm just saying, like, to be perfectly
honest with you, it was hip hop that basically decided

(13:36):
to use that as a farm, and it it spoke
to us. Was it relevant you know enough to be like,
all right, we're gonna lift up from this and continue
to keep it going. No, they were y'all were they
were courageous as hell to even have the conversation. And
what happened after that was, Okay, we can continue to
talk about Africa and talk about the things that are
gonna lift us up and talk about being you know,
connected as a community. Then it was drugs. Then it

(13:58):
was the opulence of drugs. Then it was the disconnect
from anything that had anything to do with being smart
at all. So now here we are. And then some
of our artis that came from that era, like the
whole eating with the whole collective of Daylight and everybody else.
Like people got older, they got into making money and
brands things like that. As as we have so clearly

(14:19):
noticed within our generation that we don't live long enough
in order to celebrate what we started fighting for the
most of the most of the people who were advocating
before they got official jobs. So now they're in South
from they got they got government jobs, you know what
I'm saying, and they're trying to survive, and then whatever

(14:39):
the hell they got they're trying to hold onto. So
it's like they can't go too deep. And then they realized,
oh man, this is a this is a trap which
is not to not for nothing. But that was the
argument with some of the public and the Grammys versus
Golden Globes, because it was like, oh, we show me
as quiet. We got to protect our brand. But meanwhile
it was at the other one it was like, uh,

(15:01):
but I'm just it's just interesting in that way, very
interesting protecting if you want to talk about that, if
you want to talk about it, I don't mind being
as though you're you're an Atlanta native. Okay, as we
get further into your story, I'm curious to ask you
how your your current mind state, your evolution correlates with

(15:22):
the culture that Atlanta has now as far as hip
hop culture is concerned. But okay, great, Now, I'm gonna
sound like the cliche, but I want to start back
in the beginning. Let's go back. You're gonna take your
way back. So, so you were born in Atlanta, Georgia.
I was born in Dallas, Texas. Really, I was born

(15:46):
in Dallas, Texas. Fort Worth, Yes, fort Worth, Texas, which Dallas, Dallas,
Texas on US and the fourth Yeah, how long did
you live in Dallas? A year? I don't count. I mean,
that's why a lot of people were born and you
were actually went to you know, military brats. But my
father and my mother, um, they left Chattananooga, Tennessee, which

(16:07):
is where I would ultimately end up. So and that's
why I was actually from. But um, my mother and
father went to Dallas, Texas to really start, you know,
to start a new life. He played basketball. She you know,
she was she played basketball as well. But she was
an intelligent woman. Yeah, my mother played basketball. Yeah. I
mean neither of them made it to college because they

(16:33):
had me, so they kind of that kind of was
the route of awakening for both of them. High school.
My father would have went on to have played basketball.
He was an incredible basketball player. Uh, noteworthy to this day,
like everybody still remember Archy that was his name. But um,
they moved to Dallas, they had me. Um relationship was obviously,

(16:56):
you know, not able to survive, and they broke up.
They broke up. She brought me back to Chatting, Tennessee.
And that's where I'm from. Okay, Yeah, we're any of
them musically inclined or it was just a matter of
just playing. You a whole bunch of stuff in the house.
And I think my mother is the person who was
most responsible for introducing him, introducing me to music. But

(17:19):
after I met my father, I heard him and I realized.
I realized he had a voice. He was a man
of conviction, but not you couldn't get a ship together,
you know what I'm saying. He spent most of my
childhood high and a substance abuser, and he never was around,
never anything, never, no connection, nothing until I think I

(17:41):
was like maybe thirteen or fourteen years old, that I
really make a connection with him where I could see
him in a positive light. He was a pastor for
like that time that summer, and then he disappeared again.
But um, which is more? Which is the case? So
that that's another story about we're talking about history, and
we're talking about Africa and the idea of what that was,
but also two fathers of that time. Like most of

(18:04):
the people my peers that I talked to, they felt,
you know, some of the same reality. And then for
those who didn't, you know, they became kind of the reference.
Like I was one of those kids who hung out
with my friends to see how you know that his
his relationship was with his father as an idea what
or either it was a Cosby show or something like

(18:25):
that or first Prince of bel Air. It kind of
at least between like up to ten, who was the
guy you could talk to you about my grandfather. I
had a lot of uncles, so my uncle Darrel, uncle Bruce,
uncle Gary, he lived in um d C. Didn't really
talked to him that much, but he's in my mother's brothers.

(18:48):
But Bruce Darrell O'Neill. I never met my grandfather, which
I felt was you know, I'm looking at pictures in him.
You knew his name was John Henry Hard Yeah, yeah,
he yeah, But but yeah, man, you know I didn't
really I i't have a reference. I just kind of

(19:08):
looked around and it was a collective of people that
kind of just invested into me because they realized I
didn't have a dad either. And I mean I turned
out pretty much, you know, I right, But you know,
it wasn't like I was pulling from the source. I
was actually pulling from the lack thereof. So not having
a dad made it like a task for me to,

(19:28):
you know, no, to be in my child's life, to
be there for them to understand who they are. And
I'm telling me to wrapped this around just so you
understand part of the reason one of the reasons why
twenty three and me was so important. There was a
lot of things that were kind of like egging me on,
like about not knowing who I was and not and
us not knowing you know, you know, being introduced. When
I went over the overseas, two different you know, types

(19:50):
of spirituality Aruba, um um century and all these other
things that I just saw. It was just around. I
was like, man, it's crazy. All these people who my
it from Africa to these neighboring islands. They preserved the
idea of what our our original spirituality was, or our
connection to spirituality was. So I went to school and

(20:12):
they and they wanted to do a lineage, like they
wanted our kids to offer something from a place that
they were from. So you have kids who were from Italy,
you have kids who are from all these you know,
this is a school in Atlanta. I don't want to
want school. That's how interesting. Like they know, they know,

(20:32):
but they but okay, So this is not a public
schools to private school, and it's for all the right reasons,
right And when I asked my son where he was from,
he said, I'm from Atlanta. I'm Georgia's like, actually, so
you're not from Georgia. Yeah, I'm from Africa. Now, A'm
from Africa. And that was the beginning. And it was like,

(20:54):
you know what, this matters, This matters, and I gotta,
I gotta, I gotta go ahead and go do with this.
And I've been talking about it. And I went ahead
and they did the swab and went through the whole
process of giving him like and that that that was
just like the I gotta get this right. So what's
his mentality now? Does he have a deeper understanding? He
has eight he has a deeper understanding. And even even

(21:17):
though he does, we actually, you know, we put the
following year because they have it every year. Um, we
put together his thing and that was all these things
that you know, they made from West Africa or Mali,
which is where we kind of claimed. But he still
wanted to bring macron and cheese. That's part of it though,

(21:37):
that's the African And by the way he showed it
to me said no, this is actually something that was
made there. I was like, all right, okay, cool, all right.
Teaching you So, so at what point are you finding
your your voice, your your actual singing boards, like, were
you raised in the church or was it? It was
my mother, My mother she was you know, she was

(21:58):
a youth director of her choir in church. So um,
outside of listening to what was on the radio, and
you know, just the same the same way as you know,
y'all had ciphers and hip hop or either was had
bands and ship like that, right, we had ciphers to
a singing. So if you came to school and you
couldn't sing like what was on the radio, then you

(22:19):
was kind of whack, you know what I'm saying. So
so I would listen to the radio and I listened
to how people were singing and what that reaction was.
And then you know, I was listening to my mother
preparing her, you know, whatever she had to do to
teach her students. And I asked, I said, you know,
can I be in your you know, a choir? She
was like, you can be in my choir, but if
you act up, I'm gonna kick you out. So don't

(22:40):
think that I'm gonna give you any like I'm gonna
lay off you just because you know you're my son.
Of course, I got kicked out the choir about two
or three times. But you know, um, she let me
do my solo you know what I mean, every so often?
What question you talking about just singing? Uh? A question?
Your first vocal coach? Yeah, apparently she had break down

(23:01):
like certain songs and you have to learn the harmonies
and it was like really advanced. Talk about that all right. So, um,
she made me listen to take six and she would say,
how how old are you at this point? Um, I'm
about for the first take six, So I'm fourteen. I'm fourteen,

(23:27):
and I mean I didn't have a vocal coach as
an artist until I was signed, right, That's when it
really started. But before I didn't really need one, you
know what I'm saying. Like, I mean, I don't think
I was perfect, but singing all the time, repetition basically
begin to prepare me for and anything that was on
the radio, I would try to beat it so if

(23:48):
I could sing better than it or either add live
in between little spots to kind of make it my own.
I do that. But I was singing it to the
tune like exactly the way that it was. You know what,
I have a theory about usher, which is it was
it was. I think this is when I'm the you
Make Me Want A video came out and we was

(24:11):
like we were in the studio recording and the video
came on the monitor, like the volume was down whatever,
and my manager, rich Uh said that you know what
you're watching is He said that Usher was the beneficiary
of the first of the what I call the VCR generation.

(24:34):
And I was trying to figure out what he meant,
and he was like, you see the mechanical way he's dancing,
And I was if you remember the way, like how
mechanical the dancing Wasn't you make me wanna? He was
basically explained to me that, and like did that? Always
wanted to ask did motown have an effect when you?

(24:58):
Did you see it the first time? He came? So,
I mean Kim on an eight three, so I guess
you were like five or six, Like did that performance
mean anything to you? Because basically what he was trying
to say was that in your formative years of getting
entertainment you had a VCR to keep rewinding and watching
over because it was more important to my cousins and

(25:22):
my older trickled down like it wasn't the first thing
with you, but now I wasn't it but I would
have never guessed that in the skillion years. Well, everybody
loved Michael Jackson, but that was that was just off
of you know, Off the Wall and all that, so
we be I could appreciate Off the Wall a little

(25:44):
bit later in my life, and he wasn't really the
person who influenced me. Michael Jackson overall was as a
present because he was the biggest, right, But it was
guys like Bobby Brown that connected, you know what I'm
say And and yes, looking back at that, it was
special to me, but it was like, I can't I

(26:05):
can't obtain that, I can't reach that. That's not that
that unnecessarily I can emulate it. I love Thriller. I
was there where everybody watching Thriller, right, and that that phase, Yes,
everybody was completely crazy fanatic over Michael Jackson. But even
still I was trying. I was trying. I tried to

(26:26):
emulate what I knew I was, and I was more
of a street dancer and a singer. And I listened
to New Edition Bobby Brown and in that world from
the fact that no, I'm just saying that you none

(26:46):
of your experiences are firsthand church, you know, talent shows. Yes,
that started in talent. I just meant for in terms
of of like radio plays a big part of of
of your experiences, whereas like a lot of the people

(27:08):
that traditionally start my ship was Donnie Simpson. What I'm saying,
So it's like that was my generation. I'm from that
I'm from, Yeah, Sherry Cardon and Donnie Simpson. That was
my generation. And that's basically how I made the connection.
But dance was it the thing like, mom, I want
to sing and all this things. It was just like,
oh yeah I could do that. I can dance. But

(27:31):
I mean, were you thinking, like eleven, that's what I
want to be when I grow up? Like it was
Michael that made me feel like that's what I want
to do. It was Bobby Brown that made me feel
like that's what I can do. So Bobby Brown was
more accessible to you. He's your hero. Wow, damn, I
want to get your feelings on a New Adition movie. Um,

(27:56):
So at what point are you? I mean, at what
point does this become a thing where you become serious
about it? Because you you the first group was when
you were like eleven, right, twelve? Well, talk about that experience. So, um,

(28:17):
that was a they were youth anti Uh, they were
anti youth drug group who came to high schools to
talk about drug abuse, um, gang violence and stuff like that. Right,
And I it is back in the time when I
wasn't like in talent shows, just trying to find my way.
So if I wasn't singing in church, I was singing,
you know in the yard, you know, in my neighborhood.

(28:38):
You know, my cousin he used to dance, so he
was battle and stuff, and he had me come in
like like the little kid from you know, b Street,
uh and breaking and I'd be like the special guest,
the cat who come in and just slaughter because you know,
no one expected you and your like three carc like
the random person in the crowd. But um, yeah, it

(29:01):
was it was um, it was. It was. It was
more Bobby Man. It was more Bobby Brown than anything.
But finding my way to my voice. It was just
kind of try to never listen to that damn radio
and then watching those videos. And then I met this
manager by the name of Darryl Wheeler, right, and he

(29:22):
was like, I really want you to be and I
want you to you know, audition for the group and um,
he said, I want you to come to the show,
and we just so happened to be in the talent show.
Me and another cat, another two cats, and the talent
show was over and then they were to perform. So
while they started their gig, I was in the back
of the room just kind of looking, you know, looking,
and I'm and I'm watching all these people go crazy

(29:44):
over these guys. So I just got up, ran to
the middle of the floor, like, ran all the way
down the island, just started dancing in the middle of
their ship. Yeah, I mean, but that was it was
like I wanted it. I wanted too, I wanted to
be a part of it. And him leaving that little
door open, which it was my It was my best

(30:04):
friend named Demikus who introduced me to darrel um at
in our auditorium at my um my elementary school or
middle school something like that now elementary school. UM. But
after that, man, I just kept I just kept, you know,
going wherever they were they had to, you know, performance downtown.
You know. Eventually they start having rehearsals in the gymnasium

(30:25):
in the neighborhood. So I started coming in and just
kind of trying to look looking at what they were
doing to try to figure out what their dance steps
and things were. And I would just sing. I would
just I used just saying um ready or not after seven,
remember that, right, man? And I was like, you know,
just use my use my talent, and let me figure
out how to get in whatever I gotta do. They

(30:46):
run heels and have all these drills that they would do,
you know, to kind of prepare themselves and make themselves
better performers so they could, you know, not they wouldn't
be tired on stage or whatever. So I did it.
I was like, all right, I'll do all of that.
That's what I think. The oldest oldest guy in it,
Anthony Byrd was he had to be like sixteen or seventeen,

(31:07):
maybe seventeen is uh. There's three other guys, Adrian Read
and another guy by the name of Chocolate, So they
were all in this. We were in this group together
and it wasn't really going because the reality was they
were built to be what they were and you were
meant to be. So no, it didn't had. That didn't
happen U till a little bit later. Actually, it was

(31:27):
I'll tell you My mother was the reason that it happened.
But we then became a real group and we went
to ForSight County and UM in Florida, and we signed
with this record company, ForSight Records, and we started, you know,
building songs. So I had this song dream Girl. That
was the first record that I ever had in that group.
So then it gave me like a voice because otherwise

(31:49):
I was just trailing trailing behind playing or dancing to
the records and ship that they had UM and every
so often I kind of, you know, up to try
to upstage somebody else. He was just doing riffs and
ship like that. But um, my mother was like, you're
not really getting there. You know, I'm not. My son's
not getting the benefit because he's never on stage. You

(32:10):
keep put him in, putting him in the back, and
you know, she just wasn't happy, you know. So he
tried to do whatever he could. Eventually, you know, I
left the group. She wanted me to get out of group.
Of course I didn't want to get out. I actually
ran away. It's crazy, ever, I ran right away from
from never to run away from home, but never do it.

(32:32):
I tried to run away from home. Oh black kids
don't run away from I think when you come back
to our black parents, they'd be like, good exactly time,
I'll bill Steve Yard ever run away from home to
run away from my sister. My sister ran away from

(32:54):
home like all the time. So she'll be back tomorrow. Yeah,
let's seeing like bentures are crazy? A man, Come on,
So what year was that when you ran away? I
mean I was twelve and this is around the time
my mother had moved me to Atlanta, and I was like,
you know, you you destroyed my world. Man, this is

(33:17):
everything to me. You said, I just look forward to it.
She was like, I hear you. Okay, She's like, but
she said, you're not gonna go where you want to
go in this group. So I'm gonna, I promise you,
I'm gonna put you in every situation that I can
to be able to help you, to show you that

(33:37):
you're worth it, that you are a solo artists. So
she started me and entering me into talent shows, auditioned
for the Apollo addition for a star search. I got
into a talent search, a talent show by the name
of UM Atlanta Talent Search in Atlanta. UM. I was
recognized by Ali Reich's brother Brian Reid, who um then

(33:58):
introduced me to a guy by the name of A. J. Alexander.
He was kind of all in the middle of this
ship who actually was a bodyguard for Bobby Brown. So
Bobby Brown Brown's bodyguard situation. Yeah, night night. Yeah. So wait,
why why did she move to Atlanta from Chattanooga? She

(34:22):
moved because just you know, they she wanted more man,
she wanted more out of her life. What was like,
what was your observations of Chattanooga was there? I mean,
it's not much different now than it was then in
terms of opportunity for you know, advancement, Like it's very

(34:43):
there's if you have the confidence that comes from elsewhere,
you will wander into other areas. But if you don't,
black people stay away from white people. And as a
black side of town, damn near in a white side
of town or a progressive side of the town. And
whenever I'm there, I kind of go with between the both,
and I'm like, yo, have y'all ever been it? Like,
we don't go over there? You have you you returned

(35:05):
to Chatto No, no, no, I've returned to Chattanooga to
do do you know philanthropic work back to you? Right, Yeah,
it's what area is that it's in front of the
school that I was telling you about Dalewood. It's like
it's like right down, um, right in front of it.
And I want to know if he had this Chris
Rock sign moment. Fo. Yeah. So she went to Atlanta

(35:35):
just to get you a better opportunity was she went
to Atlanta because it offers something better for her. My
stepfather at the time, he worked for this UM trucking
company and it was better for him to be there,
and also too, it was an opportunity for her to
be able to move forward over you. I was eleven

(35:55):
eleven twelve, so I was kind of going back and
forth from Chattanooga to Atlanta working with the group and
UM when we worked on that album. You know, it's
you know, I was kind of just moving wherever I could. Man,
because I at the age of eight, that's when I
decided what I was gonna do. I had this vision
and from that vision it was like, Okay, I want

(36:17):
to be an entertainer. I wanna I want to be
on stages. I want to perform for people, and that's
what I want to do. I don't want to play football.
I know all y'all played football and basketball and baseball,
because my entire family it's comprises let's like all star athletes.
My uncle played for the Kansas City Chiefs. Um My,
my cousin, he played a duke, all these guys. That

(36:39):
kind of gave me some kind of idea where I
wanted to go. And I was like, no, that's not me.
I wanna I want to perform. I want to entertain.
But how problem must they have been when you did
the Cavaliers move, because that's like the perfect combination, like
they must have been. Oh that's great. Yeah yeah that
was That was pretty cool, right, yeah, like you even
did it either way? Yeah yeah, you know, Um, Ali

(37:02):
enough man. You know, once my grandmother passed, we don't
really get together the way we used to, and I
wish that we did more. But everybody's growing up. Either
they have kids that some of them back and shouting with.
Someone moved to other you know states, some people got married,
you know, some people live in Atlanta. Some people you know,
moving moved to d C. But um, we don't talk

(37:24):
as much as we used to. Yeah, yeah, I gotta
work on that I work on that. Big Mama is
the one that keeps the family together. You can't go
all the way to West Africa and I go to Chattanooga.
You know what I mean. You gotta get that something.
You gotta picked up a few people. So okay, So

(37:46):
by the time you're eleven, it's like the nineties, early nineties,
I guess, um by this point, I mean, Atlanta's officially
put a stamp on being a black music mecca. I mean,
is that fact lost on you or is that something
you're not thinking about, like, oh, this could be a

(38:07):
better opportunity for me, because it was part of my
mom's plan. It was a part of my mother's plan.
She even mentioned she says, you know that L. A.
Read and Baby Face, you know, they just started a
record label in Atlanta, and you know, I hear that.
You know you could get you know, if we put
you in talent shows, you can get recognized. So um,

(38:28):
she put me in this. That was his brother's A
distinction I think was the name of the name of
the group that was putting together this thing. And somehow L. A.
Read's name was attached to with A. Bryant Read's name
was attached to it. And that's I'm telling you, that's
what I made a connection. But it was really a
j A J. Alexander the Deaths, the dude who discovered me. Man,
out of all the people who could claim and say,

(38:48):
you know, I found him, I saw him first. That
was a dude who really recognized my talent and was like, yo,
let's work with me. He to man, this dude took
me everywhere. Man, this dude took me to meet Bobby
for the first time. I thought I was gonna be
Bobby Brown's artist. That didn't happen. I said, I may

(39:12):
have dodge the bullet you definitely, But also to man,
and I can remember way back, he'd had me in
the parking lot of one twelve Keith Sweat coming out.
I have to perform for him right there in the
middle of the parking lot, Dallas, Austin in the parking lot, Jamaine,
do put all of these people like just trying to
get Yeah, I have on another level where he's in.

(39:37):
He's in Atlanta. He goes in between Miami and uh
in Atlanta. Yeah. So you he's a photographer now, man,
Oh that's dope. Yeah. So you were allowed out after
hours to sort of case these spots and and perform
and without a doubt. I was not the kid that
you told no, because I wouldn't accept it. I'd say, Okay,

(39:58):
if you don't want to, if you don't want me
to do what I'm doing it, guess what I should.
He's still I was your Your favorite least word is no,
like for those for those of the new context, you
know I shouldn't. The roots are working together now, so

(40:21):
whenever I want I should do something, I now have
to present it in a positive context just so he
can say no. But I guess had been that now,
thank you? Now I know what you're doing. You know what? Yeah,
I said, you're right, we should we should do a

(40:42):
twelve inted version of you got it bad. But this
must have been a really hard job for your mom
because like your mom evolved into like supermanager, like she
was like Matthew knows before Matthew knows, And at the
same time she had to keep you confident as an
artist but humble as a man. In how why did

(41:03):
I want to know what kept you out of trouble?
Because that again I said, confident as an artist, but
kind of like humble as a man like, not not
a commercial, not a not a dickhead, not because as
we're sitting here talking to you, and I've seen we
throughout the years, you're not a dickhead, like you're a

(41:24):
very humble individual, but like a mirror just said, you
know what you want, you won't say no, but you know,
fine line. The confidence was the confidence came for me, right,
and it came from the security of having someone who
I knew had my back, which is my mom. So
as long as she was able to focus on the business,
I could focus on the art and the creative part

(41:47):
of it right, which made it all right. And then
the rest of it was like I just never wanted
to be in some ship that I felt like that
I couldn't control. You know what I'm saying. I never
wanted as in so many people were getting caught out there.
So those references was like, I'm not had. I can't
let none of that ship be the reason that I
don't make it to where I want to be. And

(42:08):
I'm definitely not gonna let you know. I'm not gonna
because and I had so many little heels to climb,
like I lost my voice as soon as I got signed, Like,
imagine that right when you signed the first deal. When
I signed, when I signed a deal to the Face Records,
I lost my voice? How long I lost my voice?
Puberty or like puberty for about two months. It was

(42:33):
like that, and you didn't know what. You don't know
what the hell was getting to go on. The label
was talking about dropping me. This was after port I
couldn't perform the record. They put the record on, had
a yeah, they had a showcase for me, and I
couldn't perform the record at all. Puff Puffy was there.
I think it was entertaining him, him being my m

(42:56):
my executive producer at the time, but um man, it
just it went away. What was it? Wow? Okay, because nothing.
I have favorite theory for everything. But I'm saying like
black people rarely delve into psychological matters or whatever. Like

(43:20):
I know that me personally, for anything that I'm trying
to overcome, you know, and something happens like an injury
or something, it's you know, I'm sometimes I think like, Okay,
how do you really feel? Are you scared at this moment? Whatever?
Like the mind does have a way of crippling you

(43:46):
and while you're facing exactly Now, in theory, was it
eight weeks laryngitis or did you feel afraid in theory,
what do you think in theory that I feel afraid.
I felt like it was over and I felt like,

(44:08):
okay if I just I mean, I did what I
knew to do at the time, which was prey. Did
you feel a psychosomatic Yeah, well I I subconsciously. No,
I didn't. I didn't sabotage myself. It wasn't fear or
something like that. No, you mean in terms of just
having to go through that at that moment, because sometimes
your body can know. It had nothing to do with that.

(44:30):
I was working my ass off and I wanted it. Yeah, yeah, Okay,
there's an there's an artist that I can't name right
that it's always the same artist out everybody in the
room can know. But no, it's not that artist. It's
not it's not the fourth letter of yeah. No, it's

(44:51):
hell no, it's you know, okay, yeah, because that's always him. Okay, yeah,
I keep dragging him under the No, there's okay. There
was there was an artist that uh we were working
with and um, a situation happened. Oh god, Okay, the

(45:13):
situation happened in which lets there, you always get so frustrated,
I know, because I'm not I'm not trying to be
gossipy or ride somebody on the bus. But I think
this is a classic case of it. Their teeth started
to fall out. Now, it wasn't like oh, they got

(45:36):
like literally they're saying, there's a pressure that comes with you. No,
that is a pressure, you're right, Okay, so now I'll
follow you what you're saying. But I had a different
destiny and I was connected to it, and the moment
that I decided that that was what I was gonna do,
I wouldn't let anything come in between me and that. Right,

(45:56):
But you're right, there are tons of people who sabotaze themselves,
got caught up on you know and drinking and then eventually,
you know, moved on upgraded to you know, heroin. But
I don't even think that this thing like, okay, a
big moment about to happen for me tomorrow, let my
teeth fall out right now, or you know. But I
do believe that subconsciously we are able to create obstacles

(46:20):
without even purposely wanting to do that. Which yeah, wait, wait, wait,
First of all, how was he she she? You know
the story you la ya? I mean, I'm putting some
things together. Oh damn. Um mid twenties, so that's far

(46:41):
more advanced than a child, you know what I'm saying.
So the reality of probably the disappointment that led up
to that moment had everything to do with the pressure
that was going on with her. So like so when
you so you look so you cut, you'll cut, uh
call me a mac and then you lost your boys
because this point it just that was what n three
three ninety? How did you get on that soundtrack? Because

(47:04):
that wasn't even face related. It was no l A
reading baby face. They actually it was on the soundtrack too,
So okay, I mean, but was that a face slash
epic thing or was it was a l A reading
baby face thing? I think I think they had something
to do with the like organizing of the album. They

(47:26):
didn't produce all the songs like Boomerang and all that
ship but um, yeah, man, that was that was kind
of like my lunch. But at the rate that I
was working my voice, I mean I had saying till
I actually you know, lost my voice plenty of times,
but this time when I woke up the next day
that ship just didn't come back. So the next day came,
and then the weekend was there, and then it was

(47:47):
the next week. I'm like, what's going on? How did
you feel? I mean, I felt like my window of
opportunity was closed? And I felt like, Okay, what were
people saying around you at that point, like um tisk, Yeah,
they were like, okay, well, what what's going to happen now?
Because you know this kid, he's lost his voice and

(48:11):
he can't perform this song, so we'll just kind of
ride it out with him. You know, I signed a
contract with him, so at least I had to you know,
the length of the deal, you know what I'm saying.
But at that point, the fear of man, They're not
gonna put any more money into me if I don't
get if I don't do my part. So I had
to do whatever I could to try to fix or
remedy the problem. And this is before you even started
recording the factblem I hadn't I had well, I went

(48:34):
through a while. I worked with the Dungeon family, and
I worked with these producers out of Detroit by the
name of Tim and Bob. That's when I want my guy.
So from the idn't know that. No, I'm sorry not
to me about Tim and Ted, Tim and Bober from
Peh Tim and the Characters. Yeah, yeah, so characters. Yeah,
they were on that Taylor and Ted. Anyway, Tim and

(49:06):
said they worked on a couple of records with me
and I lost my voice, man, and I just it
just went away, and I had to figure that sh
it out. So now I'm dealing with the fact that
the labels getting me to drop me. And Puff was like, now,
y'all can't do this kid like that. Let me take
him to New York. So he took me. He started putting,
He put me with vocal coaches out here to try to,
you know, kind of change the direction of it. And

(49:28):
then his idea wasn't about me being this perfect singer,
even though I had like, you know, Kenny from uh
Intro and um Missy and I mean like great singers,
Faith Evans, all these great singers around me, you know,
and they were supporting me to like, now you're gonna
be all right, just keep going. I'll be sure. He
worked on my first album. Yeah. So wait, so Puffy

(49:52):
took an interest in your career even though you weren't
signed the bad Boy or his management company. I mean, okay,
so the reality of how the business works is I right.
So if you have an artist like me, there's an
open budget, and if you're attempting to establish a record company,
that damn Nick gives you free range to do whatever

(50:13):
you want to do during them sessions. So so I
was not. But but by the way, a genuine relationship
was bund was was built in that. But don't getting
funked up. I knew what was going on. Like if
Craig Mcki is walking out of my walking out of
my session, you know, I'm like no, But I mean,

(50:41):
but by the way, that was what it was in
that time. That's the nineties, you know what I'm saying
for some bad boys stuff. Boy, So like, what was
that like? Because from what I understand what I read before,
that was like book like for you, like he had you,

(51:01):
And like what was that ship like with Puff during
that time? I mean like, yeah, to say the lead
you moved to New York by yourself or like your
mom came with you. I moved to New York with
my cousin and shortly after that, Puff was like I
got him, my cousin left and that's way. Yeah, all right.

(51:21):
How old were you this time? Around this time, I'm fifteen.
Oh hey man, listen, what were your mother's rules? What
was her she? I mean, thank god she raised a

(51:44):
sensible child, you know what I'm saying. Because it was
readily available whatever you wanted to do. You know what
I'm saying. It was it was, it was. It was
pretty crazy. And for for the average kid, they would
look at it like, Yo, this is the greatest ship ever.
But for me, man, I was a bit sheltered, you
know what I'm saying, Like I really hadn't been exposed
to sex and ship like that. Like I was. I'm

(52:05):
from the South, you know what I'm saying. I came
in with a ruffle jacket on, looking like I was
in Earth Winning Fire, you know what I'm saying. You
know what I'm saying. So and Mark Pitt's picked me
up from the airport and was like, Yo, we go,
we got you. You know what I'm saying. You know
on out we gotta get this jacket off you guys.
So you was just wrong with the bad boy posse
like it was like yeah, yeah, man, I was really
a biggie new Yeah. Yeah, how did he have you working?

(52:29):
Like what was the I guess the boot camp? Like
what was that training regiment? Like we take your budget
and he was ready to die now but he but
he had me in the studio with Davante. I worked
with I'll be sure. I worked with Kenny from um Intro.

(52:50):
I worked with you. Gotta tell the story. I don't
mean story, but it's like no because like faces backgrounds
on that app like she's nuts, Oh my god. Yeah,
yeah it was crazy. Man, what the I'll teach See,
I'm like, y'all got questions what I'll teach you? When
we're talking about Whispers? You know what I'm saying? Like, man,
she said, that's one of your favorites. No, that's my

(53:11):
favorite ran Yeah, that was my favorite on that album,
Whispers Final Goodbye. I'll show yeah because at the time
I think of you, we like think of you because
that was chucky. He flipped the who got the problem
Ronnie Ronnie laws So it was like I was like, oh,
he's singing over the black woman Ship. But um but

(53:33):
yeah that record because I was and I'm oblivious. I
don't know nothing. I'm just uh that album spoke to
you when you yeah, okay, I get it. That's another
generational thing between the two of you and me because

(53:55):
again I assume were seven, I'm seven eight. Again that
that that the difference, like pre seventy five, seventy five cats,
we have a chip on our shoulder about R and B.
You know what I'm saying. So we're not that receptive.

(54:17):
Like even when I'm at D'Angelo, I was like dismissing,
like R and B cat whatever. I mean. I was
just a Nazi that way, So I would have been
more dismissive to it whereas we were because y'all were
sixteen when it came were open and at the time,

(54:37):
I mean, because I always thought was strange that that record, uh,
in hindsight like it kind of you know, people thought
that he was that you were too young to be
singing about Yeah, but but it was right in time.
But where we were developing right exactly. That was my
wh It was time for can you get it? Just

(55:00):
get whispers? Look man, the run, Look man, let me
tell you something. The run. So if the love was here,
the many way come crazy. That is phone Bone gold
taking my apron is on making the best take right now, alright,

(55:30):
and yours on my tape. Okay, if you're just joining us,
just joining us, we're talking to four and uh Frante's
phone Boom Classics on his first record, which apparently as
a guy who studied all of his music, I need

(55:53):
to revisit. So if if you're in the audience watching
the the Usher Root, uh yeah, yeah, experience what's on
you like? Yo? That's my y'all gotta do this one. Um,
they're they're going to determine the last two. I mean
something of the first record many ways? Was I think

(56:16):
that one was dope? Um uh. I'm trying to think
another one that people would like that well, because I'm
trying to think of like songs that were like good.
But now even now I think we appreciate it more.
The many ways it's just a gorgeous song, Like I
just I just think that's just a very well can
I can I rock many get the post? Hit the post?

(56:38):
This is a question of supreme with phone Bone Classic
number one by Usher Raymond the fourth That's right, it's
go to make you sire. This is the many ways
you need to work on that. All I heard was

(56:58):
Usher mownin anyway. I love to drinking baby scorn. I've
seen you around my way a couple of times. You
must just moving around the way right. I see all
the phones my person move for your number. I'd like

(57:19):
to get to night so long you do this miss.
Some times I'm talking to phone of something anyways to say,
I love it. Anyways, girl, you so bad? Yeah, you're surprized.

(57:52):
I got commsation. She ain't shacking for the kids that
sweetwee can't I swear you're watching? They don't know? Well.

(58:32):
That was the Many Ways by ussher Rim and our
special guests on Quest Love Supreme. So are you are
you one of those people that cringe when you hear
your older material or people salibrating over stuff that you
made fifteen years ago, like yeah, yeah record now It's

(58:54):
like it's not like, what are you thinking of when
you I'm gonna like you could have spilled pizza on
your shirt and you're like, man, that's when I word,
you know, like, what are you thinking of when you
hear that one that I had lost my voice? Because
I can hear it. I'm like, damn, I was fighting
trying to get to that ship. Yeah. So What was
it like when you finally got full control your voice back?

(59:15):
And I was like, oh, I can talk again. Oh yeah,
it was. It was actually after I left New York.
When I left New York, then I began to to
slowly but surely get it get back. Came to New
York to record this record. I've recorded that you wouldn't
have your voice fully, did not have my voice. So
how long could you sing before the crack starts? The

(59:35):
cracks in your voice? You know, ladies and gentlemen, I
have never done crack? Um I think you know. Because
I started trying to promote the album. You know what
I'm saying. I was there's another time that you got
you put your bring you the New Edition. But I
was being managed by Brooke Payne and whoa Jeff Dyson

(59:57):
at the time. Wait a minute, you are a Brook
Payne student. Yeah, Jesus Christ, that's that's I wanted. That
was doing the break? Wait when was that? No? Okay?
So um so now I started performing the records, but
every time I hear them songs, I'm like, damn, that's

(01:00:17):
just crazy. You know, how how how far that? Because
you're living all of it, you know, and my voice
has changed about five different times throughout the entire process.
Can't tell you something funny that you don't know, tell
me all right. So when I first signed on the
first record, I wanted to do an album with baby
Face and l A Read, Right, I signed specifically for
that reason. Why, Because of End of the Road, because

(01:00:40):
of Bobby Brown. The hero that I my hero was
produced by these two dudes, so you didn't see him
as like older Bobby Brown. That's it, that's yeah. But
they music. They made that music, so that's all I knew.
And I knew that baby Face was still doing it.
L A Read I didn't know if he was in
the studio. I didn't that he had stopped completely producing,

(01:01:02):
but I was like, as long as I can get
a record by y'all. So l A. Reid wanted baby
Face to work on me, and they were going through,
you know, a lot of drama at the time. They
were kind of severing their ties or either he just
didn't want he wasn't comfortable in Atlanta. And by the way,
we talked about this ship. So it's cool. I can
just I can tell you this, but it was it's
kind of like private anyway, Um, he got mad and

(01:01:26):
he built an entire album with an artist that we know,
and he built an entire album for me, and he
gave the entire album to that dude. This is like
a mirror moment. Who got mad? This is this is

(01:01:50):
baby face was upset and gave a whole album and
it's not the other one young guy period in that time?
What year I'm sae I can I'll just tell you
on the face he was. It was Tivin Campbell was

(01:02:14):
that Can we talk? It was just me And there's
a song for your Setler's right there. Take it back
to reclaiming. Can we talk? Take that song back? Can
we talk? Yeah, don't take about girl Always in my heart,

(01:02:35):
Always in my heart. Damn all those Yeah, he got mad,
he was they were just they was fighting in puff
and him. They had words or something like that. And
then you know whatever, can I ask because he couldn't understand,
like why why wouldn't you do Why would you give
an album like that to to this dude? You know
what I'm saying, Like, you got your own artist and
they was having their ship, so he was like, I'll

(01:02:56):
do his album. You know what I'm saying. Wow, all right,
can I ask, okay, do you because did you record
the songs? And then like just I never got the studio.
I never got in the studio with him, and I
couldn't understand. It wasn't until um Bedtime. That's that was
my first record with him. That was the next album.

(01:03:18):
That was my way. So okay, it was Bedtime presented
to you already and it's completed for him. No, it was.
It was probably worked on on the spot right in
front of you. It was worked on in the studio um,
and I was there, and then I came, I went
in the booth in there and cut it. Okay, I'm

(01:03:40):
doing it. I don't think it was a song like
that he just pitched me. Not. I wouldn't that because
I'm doing a journalistic no. No. But I have a
theory because I'm very obsessed with the process of how
the water just went dry for baby Face after two

(01:04:00):
thousand and one. Really, you know, they're like there's the
period the clap with of l a baby Face, and
then there's the baby Face by himself ship and then
it's like, oh he with the neptunes like And the

(01:04:23):
thing is is that I had a theory that the
real l A and Baby Face was as yet because
what many people don't know is that, again, these are
all my theories. I'm not trying to throw last night,

(01:04:44):
that's exactly, But I'm saying that what many people don't know,
especially people not involved in the industry, is that a
lot of these times, when you're working with these super producers,
you're really just leasing their name. They at workers really
mean a person that we know for the right So

(01:05:06):
when you're when you're giving Dr Dre a quarter million
dollars for Dr Dre song, chances are is that he
has millions and people working like he's there to instruct that.
But as far as actually doing the layman's work, I
always felt you're crushing me right now. Well no, no, no, again,
these are my theories. These are my theories, and I
don't want to put you in the position where you

(01:05:26):
have to confirm or deny it. But I'm just saying
that when you are between in Baby Face, Ellen, baby
Face combined or Solo had at least ten to fifteen
bangers per per year, and then everything stopped, and then

(01:05:49):
a scientifically life and everything, but life happens, not life happened.
He got a divorce, he got married, all of that ship,
and then he probably just wasn't as hungry for it.
You know what I'm saying, Like, I'm really great friends now, right,
He's the guy that I can call at four o'clock
in the morning. He pick up the phone, you know
what I'm saying. And I and I've asked, like I'll

(01:06:11):
go back, and I'm listening to all of those old
school like well what is old school now? But listening
to those wrecks, and I'm like, what the hell are
y'all doing? Like like this, there's a feeling of this
ship in the mixture, like the like the science of
what this was, Like, how y'all were mixing it together?
What were y'all thinking? He was like, man, we had
that song for like six years that was just sitting
in there, like RONI that had just been sitting in there.

(01:06:33):
I'm like, for really, He's like, yeah, man, way before
we gave it the Bobby. But next to Prince's genius
streak of eighty two, eighties seven eight, I felt like
baby Faces output of songs was unparalleled and then it
just stops like that, So what do you think it was? Well?
I kind of want you to insinuate or not insinuate,

(01:06:58):
just because I I know that Farrell writes all of
his stuff and does his work alone. I know Premiere
produces all this stuff and like really just solo by himself.
I can't even imagine that baby Face havy work ethic
where he's up night and day, just effortless turning out

(01:07:18):
hit after hit after like he has thirty five to forty,
Like I remember that song. Remember. So what I'm saying
is once as yet left, the premises and the divorce
and the yeah young versus the Face sword and whatever
went down. Come on, man, you're the cat of the Canary.

(01:07:42):
I did tell me. You're not gonna tell me, are
you not? I mean I'm saying that, by the way,
at that age, I don't think he was thinking of
any of that ship. I was just like, I want
to get in the studio and actually get one out
of him, because I haven't had any record period it.
Did you physically see him work? Like does he have

(01:08:03):
a paper independence? That's all I wanted, That's all I wanted.
I didn't know if l A baby Face was a
like did they just come to you with these songs
or was it like you saw them sitting there or
this chord? That chord? What do you think? I just
I never got the now Rogers and BERNARDA was like

(01:08:24):
it wasn't that he presented the one that I can
tell you that was one record that he presented to me,
and that's I think that that's what kind of like
really made him not funk with me at all period
or l A read with regards to me, because he
also too he didn't believe in me as nar Ae.
He's like, I don't really, I don't really l A
l A read baby face He was like, I don't really,

(01:08:45):
I don't get him, and um he presented a record
and Puff he he rejected the record and that was it.
It was like, all right then I'm not gonna have
nothing to do with it at all. How would you feel?
I was devastated it. I actually signed the deal to
work with those two producers, and I to this day

(01:09:05):
still ain't gotta from him, you know what I'm saying.
So together, so Puff oversaw the first album. He made
the call in terms of what when EP the first album? Yeah?
Got you got? How now how did it go from?
Because you know you were talking about when you lost
your voice, they were thinking of dropping you. So then
the first album comes out and it doesn't do you know,
it doesn't sell. I guess, you know whatever, what what

(01:09:28):
did the first album end up doing? I mean, I
think and it's probably greatest. It maybe got up to
about maybe gold maybe now, yeah, maybe it might be gold.
Really that single carry that joint? So how did you
go from getting dropped to my way? Like, how did you? Well?

(01:09:51):
I started working with Dallas Austin on my next album,
and you know, I bought him a lamber Any because
that was with the exchange for doing my album. Damn,
how did they They was killing my budget? Bro? I was.
I was of that of that group of artists who

(01:10:14):
really you know now, but it wasn't that. It was
that that was that was that time. So they had
to find ways to kind of move and work their
own ship and the artists they just had to absorb that.
And plus I knew what it was. We understood and
if you think about what you're gonna end up paying
a producer, it would be the equivalent of that, you
know what I'm saying. So he made money too, right now?
He did the album for Yeah, well he was. It

(01:10:36):
didn't happen. So wait, wait, it didn't happen because he
and I didn't. We didn't blend. So I was gonna
work on this album called a Book of Love with
him and with Dallas Auser, and the motherfucker just wouldn't
show up to the studio. I'll be sitting there for hours.
I'd come there and be sitting in the front. Then
eventually I started picking up instruments and start trying to

(01:10:57):
build the album a damnself. This time when he was
he was playing with it around that time. I think
it wasn't Yeah, but I just think that he really didn't.
He didn't he didn't believe in me like that, you
know what I'm saying. I think it was more or
less of a favorite for l A. And I wasn't
a priority, and he was trying to get his label
off the ground to around that yeah illegal, yeah, um

(01:11:22):
monica he was. He really just wasn't focused. So instead
of us continuing to do that, I mean, it was
just disrespectful, like he wouldn't show up to the studio, like,
hey man, the session starts at this time, and he
was like, yeah, man, you gotta get this dude to
chill out, like you know what I mean, I'm a
viber dude, you know what I'm saying, Like I like
to just do things in the car. I'm like, fun that, man,
we're gonna work on that. We're gonna work on the album.

(01:11:44):
Let's do it, you know what I'm saying. So I
was like, funking, I'm not coming to the studio. I'm done,
and um that was it. That was the history of that.
And you know, like in my mind, I'm thinking, like
you're in Atlanta. I imagine how the funk I feel,
I say, the climax of like the Atlanta movement. Like
I'm thinking like it's like the new Motown where you know,

(01:12:06):
TLC is in the house and all this and everyone's
that happened. All of that is still true, but the
reality is like certain things ain't meant to happen, you know.
I mean, I've seen this guy and I was the fuller.
I was a very very special artist, you know what
I'm saying. Like back then, I had the confidence of
like ten billion people. So I'm in, I'm in shut

(01:12:32):
up man. So look he do passed up on me, man,
like like he's seen me before I performed for him,
and he was like, yeah, give me a call tomorrow, man.
You know like that, I was like, alright, cool, you
know what I'm saying, I see you again, man, and um,
you know so I'm still holding on a little bit
of that by you know, sitting in that lobby. You know,

(01:12:53):
it's like, man, I'm not coming back to This explains
everything because I'm seeing I'm getting to know you as
a person and as an artist. And really, you know,
I purposely, especially for this interview. Normally, you know, I'm
Google and start renal interviews just to see where you mind.
But I know that you have this tireless work ethic

(01:13:17):
about you. And now this is starting to make sense
because now I feel like you really got something to prove.
Even though yeah, you might be cool with Face and
Dallas now and you'll see each other give each other
pan or whatever. Um, but now I'm feeling like, oh, way,
do they get a little to me. I'm just feeling

(01:13:38):
like the joker now, by the way or what That's
another chapter to that that we haven't got to yet.
But I'm just saying because I didn't know, I'm sorry,
I was. I wasn't even trying to go there. You No,
let's go there anyway. I'm just saying that as an artist,

(01:14:03):
I'm thinking that you now, oh wow, you sound like
me over there. Go. No, we're not trying to turn
this into that. No, it's not the Gossip Hour, it's

(01:14:23):
not not that. But you know, I mean, but there's
certain truths that actually make it fun. You know what
I'm saying that we all grown. We've passed the now,
but we've passed it. So I mean the reality is yeah, yeah,
that's cool. Ship embraced the pity. Yeah, okay, so how
did so how did you come across the high hat king?

(01:14:51):
I'm sorry, so thanks for the record. Rick Rubin has
the loudest scratches on hip hop records, but bar none. Uh,
Jermaine dupris high hat that like when you're spending records
sometimes your needle can be sensitive to grooves on the record.
And Jermaine Duprit, Yeah, it's like it could affect He

(01:15:16):
has the loudest hip hop high hats of all time.
I mean, I respect it, but you know, I mean
back then was frustrating his health to spendine because the
high hats will always skip the records sometimes as well. Anyway,
So how did you wind up with Jermaine Dupris. He
did a remix for Think of You and that was

(01:15:37):
the that was the beginning of me kind of working
with him, and he was like, you know, if you
were you know, let's work together. I was like, man,
I really do. I think it was like, you really
did a great job. He came in the studio, he
produced it from scratch and said, we created it right there,
you know what I'm saying. And he he was just dope.
I was like, yea, man, when I work on my
next album, I really want you to I really want

(01:15:58):
you to be a part of it. And you know
l A read put us together after Dallas and that
was when you were working in l A. We did
all that? Any songs with Dallas? None damn okay, yeah,
none that came out. You mean like, did we actually
eventually I've had a song called Waterfalls versu or whatever.

(01:16:23):
I mean, like, did you ever work? I think he
was working with Debor Kilt, not no debl Cox. So
there's a couple of records on deborl Cox. They probably
slid from my project to her to her project, and
I think it was that Montel do do do the babies? No, No,

(01:16:47):
I didn't do the record, but I'm saying I would
have potentially had had that song if I weren't around it.
And not to say that they wouldn't. You know. He
had this process. Man, it just didn't work with me,
you know what I'm saying. Anyway, So so I I
ended up, you know, being put with j D. And
we just started working. I just started kicking it with it.
We worked on it in Atlanta in his basement. Oh wow, okay,

(01:17:08):
ye about that manual Seal talking to me about him
because he was like I would always see him working
with j D. He was like one of my favorite
songwriters and what was his process like? So j D
had a Manual Seal working at the time, and Kawan
Prayer there KP. That name Kawan. Yeah, he's uh, he's KP.

(01:17:34):
You know, not KP. He's independent how he works with
for real now but um he um. He worked with
Parental Advisory at the time p A. Right. I got
their official names. He was the JR. Thank you, okay guy.
So I'm back to my quiet place. That's our first

(01:17:55):
lady over there. No, that was gonna be in the
graveyard Pepperton, weren't they a R Kelly? Sorry just now

(01:18:25):
so KP. He was over there with me and we
just started working on the album, you know what I'm saying.
And the rest is kind of like it became history.
I just worked day in day now. But j D
had such a weird fucking way of working. And after
dealing with um Dallas Austin, it was like, you want
me to come to the studio and said, why you
play video games? I can't do that, man, I don't

(01:18:47):
play in that. I just didn't play video I just
wasn't a kid who played video games. I stopped and
was like, I can't catch back up. I'm sorry, I
put I put the joystick down, so I'm here to work.
I was that serious, you know what I'm saying. So
I was like, miss, you know, let's pay pool man.
You know, at least that's a game that I can play.
So we started playing Pool for push ups and ship
like that, and then before you know it, I was

(01:19:08):
doing crunches and ship and I spurred for him and
got damn six packs so that when we're trying to
get you in shape of that ship. But here's this
missing good one. So what was the first song y'all
worked on? First record we worked on? Um? Oh, man,

(01:19:30):
what was the first one. I don't think it was
a song that made the album And I don't think
it was a record that made I don't even remember
the damn name of it, man, uh the name Okay.
I was like, the album is called my Way. The
first album we worked on, what's called my Way? But

(01:19:50):
the first song, the first song I do not remember. Yeah,
I remember my Way that hit my that was my
freshman year of college and you make me want to
like it was like the last record of the entire
Why is that always because it's always like we're missing something,
we need, we need to single, we need a single.
Weed was was that thing with someone like we're missing something?
I think it was? No, I think it was. My

(01:20:13):
favorite dram was one Day You'll be Mine And it
wasn't because the Osley sample. But just like Me? I
think just like Me was the first record that we
worked on. But what was the song that you were like,
all right, I'm bad now now I'm forced to be
record with or I think it was nice and slow.

(01:20:34):
That was the one that was like, oh shoot, we
got something, but comeback there was another record that we
worked on, and um, so, how how is JD directing this?
Because I mean, at that point, I'm thinking about strictly
from hip hop context. So as a producer, what is
this process in the studio? Just hes saitting Mary coaching

(01:20:55):
you on vocals? Yo, I'm so glad. Look I hate vocals.
I would be like, all right, he does play games
back at this point. Now he does. Now he'll actually
sit in the studio with me now, But back then
you had to literally like sit in the living room
or like his little living room area downstairs in the basement,
and they would just play video games for hours. So

(01:21:17):
who's coaching your vocals on this stuff? Eventually it was
Manuel and a guy. Uh. This is back when Phil Tan,
who was his his engineer. He would he would actually
go through a vocal production with me, but um, it
was mostly e manual because he would he would put
it down piece by piece and and I kind of

(01:21:38):
going and then work on it and we wrote certain
things together or yeah, I would basically you know, talk
to j D about just different ships and before you
know what, he started Right now, I hadn't I hadn't
developed my my writing. I hadn't picked up a pen yet.
I'm just kind of like talking about things and he's
taking it in, writing it, and before you know it,

(01:21:58):
I'll come back to the studio. He'll hit me at
three o'clock in the morning, like, come to the studio.
I like, savy, I've been. I was out there all
day waiting on you to day and produce something. And
then you didn't. Are you a daytime studio person at
that time? I was, because I mean, if I wasn't
still in school, man, like I'm still I'm still in
school trying to figure out how to balance between two worlds,

(01:22:21):
and um, you know I yeah, I come out there
at three o'clock in the morning, tired as hell, and
he want to work. I had to start to go.
So you went to physical school like you weren't tutoring
the the celebrity. Wait, man, I'm sucking up. No. I
was out of school then I was taking But the

(01:22:41):
craziest ship is I was the family driver in addition
to being a nighttime artist. So I had to drive
my mom to work, drive my girl to wait, was
your mom still working? My mother was still working. I
had to drive my mom to work. I had to
drive my girlfriend to Spellman and then drop my brother. Yeah,

(01:23:02):
drop my brother off, and then get my ass back
to the house for just a second. Go pick my
little brother up, Go pick my mom up, bring them
back home, Go pick my girlfriend up, come back home,
and then drive to the studio. I'm glad the story
I was the original. You just want to show. You

(01:23:25):
just want more show than uber o. Yo, I'm actually
glad you said that because even as at least I'm
even as the as an established artists, at least in
the eyes of people that don't know the industry, you're

(01:23:48):
still blue collar with it, and you're still like your
mom's still keeping the job. She's not like, Okay, I'm
managing full time and none of that stuff. Wait's Brooke
still in the picture. Brooke is no longer in the picture.
I now am Um, I'm just working on album, so
I don't really need a manager. My mother she basically,
you know, helped me find an attorney that then kind

(01:24:09):
of handled my business or whatever her album to album
and um, you know, just kind of focused on once
again getting that album, getting that album done. Can you
describe Brooke as a person because um, for those that
don't know, um, you know, thank god the New Edition
movie went down. And I love the way like he

(01:24:30):
was my favorite character in the New Edition movie only
because of at least the lesson that he taught New
Edition was was basically, I'm gonna teach you how to
be professional. I'm not going to make you stars, but
I will teach you how to be professional. He's like
that uncle that all that granddad that makes you scared
because you don't know what the funk he's thinking good

(01:24:53):
and you're like, I just don't want to be disappointed
in me, No, little dude. I spoke to him about
that whole process, and he like confirmed that he he
was like not exactly the black version of what's his
name and whiplash, but he did he believed. I know that.
Brooke told me that he he's a too much praise

(01:25:16):
is almost damaged into an artist because that'll make them lax.
And it's weird that I'm not saying that slave mentality
like that like to keep keep the workers uh in
in in a post, Yeah, but I mean, but it
keeps it makes them work harder, and you know, next

(01:25:36):
to child like Charlie Atkins, like I consider brook Paying
one of the greatest or yeah, proprietors of of just
that spirit of like when he's working with you, is
he strictly just a manager from a manager sent or
is he working with you on dance moves? At that time,
he wasn't working on choreography anymore. So were you asking

(01:25:56):
to work with you? Or I'm always meeting people, you know,
when they just stepping out of the space. I can't
get a fucking record from baby Faces in l A,
can't get pain that goddamn teach me a step now.
But um, I mean he had wisdom, or at least
I hope he had wisdom. Yeah, he had man wisdom,
but it wasn't that. No, I didn't leave him. What

(01:26:17):
happened is new addition. They got back together and and
this is right before everything happened for me. You know
what I'm saying. I'm like, and he's like, you know,
I'm like, I'm like, you can't leave man, And he
and Jeff Dyson was like, we gotta go back and
work on this project. I was like, well, maybe I
can open up for y'all or something like. He's like, no,

(01:26:38):
I gotta give it my undivided attention as I would
if it were you. So I was like, all right,
you know what, I gotta respect that and if there's
an opportunity for us to work again. And that's when
my mother became my manager. Now, yeah, what is that
like because you're approaching adulthood? Like, is it easy the

(01:27:01):
Joe Jackson Matthew knows and of it all, Like is
it easy to separate the hats of the two when
your mom's your manager? Like? Is she traveling on the
room with you as your managers are? Like? So, how
hard is that? Because you're I mean, you're becoming of age.
I'm a grown man in theory because I've always been

(01:27:23):
the manager you're driving people? So how now? But in
my mind I'm also too, I've I've elected to be
the provider of the family, even though my mother is
the protector, right And in many ways I think that
she kind of she crippled me a little bit for
a minute because my focus wasn't had nothing to do

(01:27:43):
with business, had everything to do with art. And thank
I thank her for that because I wouldn't have I
wouldn't have established the focus that I have now. If
I couldn't have just focused on music, music, music, music, dance, dance, dance, dance, performance, performance,
performance performance. If I was always kind of gonna figure
out who's trying to take money, where the money is
coming from, I would have been petty. You know what

(01:28:04):
I'm saying. I would have I would have lost sight
of what what the goal was. And um, you know
another thing, my mother never My mother was never the
extremely Um, you know, I can't do anything. I can't
go anywhere you can't. She let me. I got into ship,
you know what I'm saying, and she understood that's just things.

(01:28:27):
That's what men do, boys do that, you know what
I'm saying. But if you're gonna do it, do it
in the safety of your house. Be protected, you know
what I'm saying. Like, Okay, yeah, I'm home, pull up
trail what yeh? Don't make me not right now? Okay.

(01:29:04):
So when you finish the record and you're master and
your sequence and at this point, are you like, Okay,
this is it. I'm gonna show everyone that I'm the
ship or no, it's just the work. Ain't even about
to accolade at that point. I just want to work.
I want to get back on the road. I want
to get back out there and perform. I want to

(01:29:25):
just continue to grow. You know what I'm saying, It's
like it ain't it ain't got nothing to do with
showing nobody up. I'm better than anybody. But it's like, no,
it's not over for me, and I'm gonna keep working
because I got more to do. I still I still
haven't fulfilled what I saw when I was eight. Well,
MTV like grasped orty like crazy, because I mean everything
every video that I know of was was played ungodly

(01:29:48):
during that point, and I think by this point, you're
this is the well no, no, it's just the Merry
Usher tour. Was that during that period? Not that? Okay?
So what is what is the what is your live
show like now? Like? Yeah, my way was like I
had a little bit of Philly with me. I had

(01:30:09):
you know, um, let me see that's when I brought
it was a little bit of Detroit, remember you know
Kern and um vout asked Brittley, they had a Detroit
that's some played with Mary A current current was EP four,
I mean was m D for um what do they
work with the dream as well? I'm not sure if

(01:30:32):
they do or not. Okay, I'm trying to getting figure
out who else do they work with? Okay, But anyway,
so I had a band and I was comfortable with
performing would have band? Um, now are you like you are? Now?
Like you're aware and you know what you want to convey?
Like who's conveying your ideas? Hear me? That's it? Is
he and me? And is he listening to you? And

(01:30:58):
we were in a way I don't want to listen
to you and we won. So what what are you
trying to? What are you trying to convince? An artist?
By this? By this time, feriold, like, what do you
At this point, I'm trying to live out everything that
goes with this album because it is the first time

(01:31:19):
that I've actually made songs that are relative to my life,
what I've gone through, what I've experienced. So now I'm
trying to re recapture those moments that you know, that
idea it's a little bit it's a little bit country,
you know I'm saying, because and I had to deal
with what I had access to. But you know, you know,
when I came on stage, I had a tribute to
Bobby that I did every night. Um, now you you

(01:31:43):
you have Do you have a close relationship to Bobby Brown?
Or was it like oh your mind on, hey nice
kids like the commercial kids. Now we were cool, were cool?
Now you know that was a moment where we weren't
cool and it was because he was. He was really,
he was really just like he was on the drugs. Man.

(01:32:05):
It was just too much. But okay, So what I'm
saying is is we had a falling out. So he
tried to fight me and the club and it was
and I was thinking, I was gonna ask you, what
do you feel threatened you? I wouldn't a threat. I
think it was just the drugs. It's just you know
what I'm saying. Sometimes you know, it just happened. You know,
how do you feel about meeting your artist? Because I
have never meet your idols, never meet them, because that

(01:32:29):
was crushed. I was crushed. And I think that he
just read me wrong. I'll never forgive my birthday. He
showed up to his birthday party that I had in
Los Angeles and I introduced. I knew him when I
was a kid because because at aj Alexander so he
I spent time at his house. I spent time at
Bostown for you no, no, no, But for the record,

(01:32:51):
Bobby Brown was like one of the best cooks of
all time all right back to the show. So now
we I knew him, you know what I'm saying. I
drove driven in car with him all kind of when
I was kicking it with him, you know what I'm saying.
And when I got signed to the Face Records. You know,
I was always like a part of the crew. I
was a part of the you know, be town crew.
And um plus his kid uh Hakim, when his nephew,

(01:33:13):
he went to school with me, so I would always
kind of be around with them. But anyway, Um, I
had a birthday party and he was in the house,
you know what I'm saying. So I got on the
mic and I was like, ladies and gentlemen, I want
to introduce you to the original King R and B.
I said, the original King R and B in respect
and at the time scasm. I think he thought I

(01:33:34):
was trying and it was out there like you the
original but um, the new king right. So he called
me and he was like, it's like that little nigger,
he said, for real, you don't get he was like,
don't get sucked up or something. I was like, hold up, man,
for real like that, so you know what I'm saying,
we you know? So I y I kind of like
just and then he kind of squared up with me

(01:33:56):
and then they jumped in between. It was crazy, man,
and I'm looking at the like, but idolize you. You're
my idol, like for real, so you remember that? Like
I don't think you remember that. I'm celebrating and my
mother and then they trying to pull me out of
the place and he like he like he going off

(01:34:18):
on me, and I'm like, Bobby, it's me, like, come on, man,
and what years this? What years that when that happens?
What year is this? Seventh th this was? This was
after My Way. It had been at least two years
after My Way, so I predict it's allus seventh Yeah,

(01:34:40):
it was at the Mother damn it after Candy Girl too, right,
like decades you can join us, so my Way with
that record when just My Way happens and then you
do the record, Um, how did you know? Like when

(01:35:03):
did you know you said that you make me want
it was the last one you did. Did you know
that that one was the hit. It was like, Okay,
this is the one or did that just happen? Later?
It just happened, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, you know,
for me, it was never about to hit record. It
was about getting back to the stage. That's it. You
would get back to get back to it. I need
to get back to the stage. That was it. Rather
it was a hit record or not. You know, l

(01:35:24):
A read he had a job, you know, KP. They
had a job to bring me the best records and help,
you know, kind of tell my story because they knew
that I really wouldn't allowing just anybody to just kind
of write, you know what I mean, Like we got
getting the studio and gotta work on it. But let
me ask, I mean, before my before you make me
want to when you're listening to the album in progress,
what's Ellie Reid saying? We just need that one, that one,

(01:35:48):
that that last record. So even with nice and Slow
and in My Way established hits. So now we wanted
to come out with My Way. We wanted to come
out with nice and slow. My way wasn't even on
this you want a nice and slow first. I wanted
nicest slow first. So he was like, no, you gotta
have an up tempo. So j D he produced this
beat and I just rolled with the beat, road with

(01:36:09):
the beat. You know what I'm saying because I can.
Then at that point I was like, I'm a right,
you know what I'm saying, because it just take him.
It just take him a minute to get to it.
And Um, he was going through some ship. I was
going through some ship in the relationship. We're talking it
up and then one day at three o'clock in the morning,
he hit me up and I came over and the
rest is history. After that record when you went in

(01:36:31):
the eight seven old one that was that was the
one who came after that one. Um, how did the
Neptunes come to the picture? For um? I think so.
I've seen for Real lady by the name of Candy Tooks.
She introduced me to for Real when he backed when
they were on Future I think it's the name of it. Uh.
When they were with So they were Um, there was

(01:36:57):
like studio producers. You know what I'm saying. That I
met him, but there was no connection. I actually worked
on a couple of songs. Um. I think yeah, I
think it was my I think it was before my way,
and I had seen him, but I didn't necessary him
at the connection, so KP. He began to you know,
he came in with these records and I was like, okay,

(01:37:18):
you know, let's let's try to get in with them.
Let's try to you know whatever. He was like, yeah,
I think I got I got something and um, I
think it was I don't know. I don't know if
I'm not sure front was was out of now, but
he was trying as hard to get that record. He's
China's hard to get that record. Yeah, you know, because
it was one I think I think it's for eight
seven on one that didn't make it sweet Lies. Oh yeah,

(01:37:43):
there's like two songs. Yeah, yeah, I still love that songs. Yeah, man,
was it is? It wasn't any truth that you don't
have the call was originally for Mike or was that
just is that fan fixed that. I don't know. All
I know is when I got it, l A it
crazy and he was like you gotta cut this racord
and I was like, all right, I cut it, no problem,

(01:38:06):
are you easily? The thing is because the the folklore
of the Neptunes, especially when they're in glory and their
glory period, everybody wanted Neptunes cut. But you know, initially
here in the Neptunes it was a hard pill for
me to swile. No, it was a hard pill for
me to I think the first beat I heard was

(01:38:27):
I Can't Make. I didn't know about s W. I mean,
I knew no, but that wasn't like it was I
can't make. The mistake was the first Neptune sounding song,
and I was like, okay, my first one was Mace.
They're looking at me, kay, looking at me. I was like,
what in the Hill is like? And it's really sparse,
you know, like it it's weird because for the for

(01:38:52):
the folklore of how it took music listeners uh a
minute to accept and digest when doves cry, like you'll
you'll hear people in hindsight speak of like Warrener Brothers
was upset that Prince took the baseline out of it.
Na Da da da. I mean, when doves cry didn't
feel that foreign to me. But yet when I heard

(01:39:14):
the Neptune stuff, it's like something's missing, like it's I
don't know what it is. It's like a lot of
drums and they were using and like the stocks that
keyboard sounds. Yeah. It was just like I'm not a
kind of plastic between them and Swiss like the era
of the keyboard beats. It sounds like demos, So like
how hit demo on the cassio. It's like, that's so,

(01:39:37):
how are they convincing you? Yo? This is the ship?
They didn't. I got it from KP, so I was
using KPS ears and when you don't have the call
came on. It was it was hard. Pete was got.
They played it loud for you. Oh man, that that
ship was hard. Another thing for LL's world famous for

(01:40:02):
how he sells you a song. No he did, He
wasn't there. KP played the record. He I didn't meet
them until after in the studio and I'm saying and
then that's when they were like, yeah, we met you
before we met you back. So the lyrics on the
original memo before you got It, he did it was
real like straight shins with little rise in our lives

(01:40:26):
but simple was that. Around the same time, it was
another record, Uh, it's sweet Lies certified, Certified happened after that? Okay?
That was that? Okay, okay, now, um that was back
when he started working with Robin thick because Robin and

(01:40:48):
him worked on that record, and me and Robin had
always been like this because I met him, I didn't.
I was back when I was like interviewing people and
shipped on MTV, and I interviewed and introduced him to
to the to the world. I was like, and he's
had long he looked like. I was like, man, you
look like Jesus what they told me. He looked like, yeah, man.
So um well, also we should um know that uh

(01:41:15):
eight seven on one also contains the most unlikely departure
sound of Jam and Lewis. I was about to say, yeah,
you remind me meeh, because I almost feel like you
remind me starts the period of them. I call witness
protection Jam and Lewis. Oh no, no, no, let me

(01:41:38):
go back. Y'all. Y'all getting this all wrong because Terry's
get this all wrong. Nope, you're getting this all wrong.
I gotta stop you. Okay. So a guy by the
name of butter It's who produced you Remind Me, and
he wrote it, and he wrote it with his sister.
So he wrote it with his sister in mind. And

(01:41:58):
I got that record. Wait, this is this is one.
This is one Mark, I'm sorry. I'm sorry on another
level now, Bill want to smack the black off me
right now. But it wasn't but but it wasn't necessarily

(01:42:20):
Um it was his production from the aspect of producing
my vocals and also to kind of leading the record.
But the record was pretty much what it was. I
just it was so comfortable working with him as a
vocal producer that I wanted him to be a part
of that song. Ok. Yeah, so that's the truth about
the record. Butter is the original producer that record. There

(01:42:42):
was an album before eighty seven one that got scrapped
because I guess it got leaked on the internet. How
much of that actually wound up on eight seven on
one and how much of the rest of It's just
kind of one, um, because it was a single, was
a Pope Colo that came out and then it was
back when you could actually put out of and then
just scrapping the entire album, right, right, So so that

(01:43:03):
was a single that came out eight eight seven O one. Right,
So I worked on a gang of gang of songs
I worked on. I didn't know that popp your Collar
was an official it was, it was official. This is
back when you could send a record overseas, you know
what I'm saying, and then that was the they and
then they worked from overseason. You just kind of got
off of it in America, so it came out here

(01:43:25):
in America. They just dated it real quick and it
became a record. It's huge overseas. It's crazy. When I
whenever I played the record, how they go crazy. I'm like,
I hate this song really, yeah, I mean I love
it for the idea of what it represents in my career,
but I'm like, I don't want to sing this song ever.

(01:43:46):
Are there any other songs like that you just don't want? No?
Not really, I mean, I'm I'm cool, but I mean
that's there's certain things that I have tried that works.
And I'm like, why the fund did this song work?
Because now I got to perform it forever, you know
what I'm It was a short lived term. Pop your
college feel like it didn't last long enough. Yeah, people
don't want to hear that. They didn't they didn't want

(01:44:06):
to hear that one. Here. I was gonna ask you
to talk about songs that you never want to perform again,
and I was one of those songs. No it's not
Oh no, no, you know, and you'll be happy to
hear this. You know. I love that record. I think
I think that's the one record that I'm like, you do, Yeah,
I love it. I love it. It's cool. I heard

(01:44:28):
a story that apparently it was similar to I Guess
what what you make? You want to wear? Y'all had
finished Confessions and that was the last one, and you
felt it didn't fit the record. You ain't have shipped
to do with that whole album. But they was like,
this is a hit. Fuck it, like, you gotta keep
this ship. Well, they brought me the record. It was
Shakir and l A. Reid at the time. Yeah, and

(01:44:51):
they were working with um Sean Garrett at the time.
So they bring me the record and I'm like, Yo,
this record don't sound ship like my record. And I
spent an entire however long it took six seven months
working on this album. You want me just throw this
song on there? He was like, yeah, it's a hit.
I'm like, So I took the record and um I

(01:45:12):
played it for KP. I was like, yeo, man, I
don't want to do this song, I said, but tell
me what you think I should do. He's like, man,
you're crazy if you said you're crazy if you don't
cut this record. I said, you think so he was like, yeah, man,
you should cut this record. It's a hit, it's a smack.
I was like, but it didn't it sound like he's
trying to be Michael Jackson. You know what I'm saying
that I don't. He's like, don't sing it like him?
Sing it like you? So who did the demo vocal?

(01:45:34):
Who was singing on? That's right? He was killing me, dude.
But I mean, we're skipping records. But I will say
that when I listened to Confessions, well, I mean seven
oh one questions I saw. But I'm just saying that
the way that I hear Confessions Yeah, to me is

(01:45:55):
almost like the movie preview, Like in my mind that
I'm stills with throwback. Yeah, so just like okay, you
put a little preview at the top, kind of like
Snoop's record, the with Rage starting off, Yeah, like okay,
there's a little preview what you're gonna get, and then
it really starts with That's how I always felt that

(01:46:17):
year was like the sequencing on it was perfect, right
because it didn't make sense in theory to have a
song like that that had nothing to do with what
I was talking about, and I was so like theme
oriented because I kind of got into like, yeah, I
really want to say this, like I want us to
talk about real hard ship, Like let's talk about all
this ship that nobody will talk about. It was eminem.

(01:46:39):
I was listening to his albums and listening to his records,
and I'm like, how is it that he can take
the liberty to just say whatever the funk you want
to see on the record and it worked. I was like,
I want to do that, and I was a lot
of I got one guest, but so then I was
listening to country music to and I'm like, it's honesty
in country music. They so let's tell stories, like let's

(01:47:01):
just let's just sit around all five of us and
let's just talk about all of the ship that has
happened to us. And we was all just putting it
in the pot, and it was like, that's a song.
This is a song, right, then we're gonna do this.
We say this, and then you know, well and a
lot of it would shared, you know I'm saying because
a lot of them stories weren't necessarily mine. You know,
I was gonna ask you to talk about John T.
Austin man like him as a writer, so John Te

(01:47:24):
as an artist. We worked together when I was younger
and um, you know kind of making that round circle
back and um, you know, just just finding our way,
uh you know through what whatever was Rather it was
a contribution as a motivation or either vocal production or
whatever it may have been. We really didn't make our

(01:47:46):
connection until um until Here I Stand. Uh, it was
on Here I Stand that we really like he did
this song from me cause something special that I mean,
it might not be a hit, but it really is
something special. Like you gotta go back and listen to
the album like people people. Yeah, so just give the no.

(01:48:14):
Well two things. One it's listened to you like describing stuff.
I'm now realizing most of my favorite Usser songs are
always the jams that like, we're not singles. So like
my favorite jam of confessions is followed Me, Like that's
the fucking one. Yeah, I mean I mean the other songs.
I mean it's so follow me is Um that's the

(01:48:38):
market for two artists though, Like yeah, it's never the hits,
it's the filler that, but it was j It was
so strategic, you know what I'm saying that in l
A was a master at that ship, rather it was
in Atlanta, or rather it was put record man. He's
the greatest record man? And is it? Because but you're
also on Arista Records, So do you have any relationship

(01:48:58):
to Clive Davids what's whatever at that time? I mean
you were on that was the record at that time,
But I was L A. Reid's artist, you know what
I'm saying. So there's here's the great here's the greatest reality.
That was the greatest moment and the worst moment that
could ever happen to L. A Read because because L.

(01:49:21):
A Read's ambition was to come to New York and
to leave the legacy of what Atlanta had created. And
while there was some there was some great ship that
happened in it, I think that that legacy belonged to him,
and I think that he should have never left Atlanta
because Atlanta lost everything when it lost L. A Read.
It gained a lot in terms of confidence because Atlanta
ain't ever lacked in confidence and being able to kind

(01:49:43):
of be installated by its own world. And it's just
this this inflated sense of delusion, that that that comes
from that place that makes whatever you say the ship,
then you believe it, you know what I'm saying, being
as though he believed in you from the very beginning.
Like what is your relationship with him? Like is he

(01:50:04):
the Barry Gordy father figure that you kind of didn't
have or like, or is he just really it really
depends on what day, you know what I'm saying. But
he's but he's he's not. He's never really mad at me.
You know what I'm saying. I don't really give you
a reason to be upset with me and then hold
onto it, you know what I'm saying. I just seen
him in a spin class and in Los Angeles, he

(01:50:26):
sat next to me. I was busting his ass. But um,
you know, we we have a real odd relationship because
you know, in his transition. Um, I've always wanted to
be supportive him, and I've always listened him up because
I believe in supporting you know, black executives and also
to being supportive. Now I had a deal. This is
the craziest. This is how much I believe in supporting

(01:50:48):
black like business and also to black entrepreneurs. So I
had to deal with Clive Davis, like I actually formed
my own relationship with Clive, and he had actually supported
a lot of my business, a lot of my business venture.
You know, I wanted to have a record label, of course,
I mean, who wouldn't give me a record label with
all the money that I made for him? You know

(01:51:08):
what I'm saying. But but the point was he he
probably should have been the person to have collected or
either been the recipient of Justin Bieber. But I took
him to l A Read because the legacy of what
that represents needed to stay intact, you know what I'm saying.
So so but but but greater than that, it's like,

(01:51:32):
I just think he should have never left Atlanta, man,
you know, and I know it's hard because Atlanta's you know,
if you look back at it now, it's like, damn, well,
I want to be able to do more, So I
gotta go to l A. I gotta move other places. Miami. Yeah,
but he had it the last thing he worked on.
That was the last record he worked on. It should
be noted that Um Confessions also represents to me, probably

(01:51:58):
the last product that people purchased the last blockbuster, yeah,
because I mean at this what was the final numbers?
Like eleven million? Okay, okay, okay. I know in hindsight
it probably sold eleven twelve million, but in the States.

(01:52:29):
All right, listen, I'm just saying that at the time
Wing Confessions is out in you know, on wax with
two thousand three, two thousand four, you know, there was
a nine next to that triangle in Billboard, which you

(01:52:50):
know after that period, after two thousand four, it's a
rap like people are now like the internet is or
with uh Spotify, and you know, I think maybe it
was Nellie and me that was it. It was the last.
But did you expect for you to be the final?

(01:53:11):
That final, like in the final tornado of what we
know as the music business, the old music business, like
you're the you're the period at the end of that sentence,
straight up, I think that all things right are inevitably
going to come to an end. Nothing is gonna last forever.
And I think that record companies really did take take

(01:53:34):
for granted the uh, the potency of what was getting
ready to happen. I think they looked at it as
all right, we'll get you these free goods because it
just gives us an opportunity to exploit and promote, you know,
our product. But didn't realize that, you know, and they
this was crazy. I can't remember the time when they
were taking the meetings to go to go to Aristair

(01:53:56):
and other record companies to try to partner with them
in front of it. They wanted to partner with them,
and they were like, no, we don't want to partner
with you. We have our own solution. You know, we're
going to continue to create content. You guys, just do
your thing. You know, it's just a little server, what
you got, whatever it is, it's done. It's gonna die,
right right. It's like now it's done. Okay, So now

(01:54:20):
how do they feel to be the last? That's the
question you asked? Right, Well, not that, but like at
the rate where it's like, okay, it was seven million nounced,
not million ounce eleven or crap, now it's thirteen million.
What are you feeling pressure? Pressure to live back up
to What is that like the pressure of living up
to that? Like did you expect this album to sell

(01:54:41):
thirteen million? I didn't expect to sell thirteen million, you know,
but I but I expected to you know, try to
speak to the next chapter of what my life was,
because everything had been about creating the chapters of what
it was, not to go back to what worked before.
You know, even that meant that meant you know, not

(01:55:01):
working with some of the same producers, you know what
I'm saying, and leaving the door open for a new opportunity,
a new a new story. So when you have a
record like that, one thing that I've always wanted to ask, like,
there's you talk about the pressure, but is there a
point where you just have just like I guess, kind
of common sense where it's just like, you know what,
this is never gonna happen again, Like kind of like

(01:55:22):
you know, we talked about prints a lot where he
had Purple Rain and he's performing for like a bunch
of white audiences and like that, he's doing stadiums and
you know, all this ship and he tells his band
like listen, y'all just soaked this up now, hippie. Yeah,
like this ship is never gonna happen again. Like do
you have that thought of like there's no way artistically

(01:55:43):
I may top this album, but sales wise, like who
then is gonna sell thirteen million albums? Twice. Yeah, if
there's anything in hindsight that I do wish is that
I would have exploited at that moment a little bit
more why I was happening. How so, what would do
I mean, just more business more. I was trying my
hardest to just kind of build a conglomerate around me,

(01:56:04):
you know, and probably made some decisions being overly ambitious
and losing people who were very, very important in the
structure of who I was. But also too, I was
moving into a space where I begin to care more
about business, and I had a better understanding and comprehensive,
comprehensive you know, idea of how the industry was growing,
and I needed like mine thinking thinkers or people around

(01:56:26):
around me, and you know, you know, I just but
I would have. Man. I can remember the last show,
the last show for Confessions. I was on the Truth tour,
had Kanye West opening up for me, and I um,
I was in Puerto Rico and I had this promoter

(01:56:47):
he was like, Yeah, you gotta come to South America.
You gotta you know, you've done Europe, You've done America.
You know you gotta do Australia. You gotta do South America.
Gotta do Asian and I was like, man, I'm really tired,
Like I really have bust my ass and I work hard,
so you know, I was having really really, really really
bad back problems. So I was like, I gotta just
I gotta go sit down in the data. I don't

(01:57:10):
wish I would have kept going ship, but I mean,
and my numbers are good, you know what I'm saying.
But but but that moment and what that meant, you know,
it was it's it's actually it is my personality, you
know what I'm saying, Like I'm I'm never the guy
who was going to rest in the success of the moment.
I just can't do it, you know. I mean, I'm
not I'm never. Um, I don't want to be complacent.

(01:57:33):
I have become a little bit complacent in times around,
you know, the type of the type of working focus
that I put around what I was doing and used
other aspects to just kind of you know, do creative ship.
But for the most part, I never I can't just
rest in a moment. I'm like, Okay, so what's next,
and like, wait a minute, let's exploit the ship out

(01:57:56):
of this moment, this moment. Let's let's go build a
clothing line. And it wasn't two infessions by Calvin ConA, Right,
but wait, I mean how much more could you exploit it?
Because the Confessions six singles? Seven singles? I mean in
terms of music, yeah, I mean I wasn't going to
create another album, but I could have. I could have

(01:58:18):
went to si I never I have never toured South
America never. I have never. Guess what, let's go to
South America? Have you ever sold? What are the continents
that you haven't done? Having to Australia either stay don
Australia tons of time and then you went to Man.
I know you went for your own but Jeff, you've
done Africa at all? Yes, I did Africa. Did to Africa. Um,

(01:58:41):
I'm not really toured Asia. Um what's your what's your
favorite places to travel? Like as far as like you
get excited to go, like, what's a good city? Like me?
Major cities suck? Major cities suck? Well, I know that

(01:59:02):
simply these you can kind of get cities are the
best cities. I think the routes, don't overthink it and
we just have fun. That's something really incredible about Paris, man, Like,
I really do enjoy Paris, And once I got married, man,
I begin to enjoy all the places that I that
I go more because now I got a significant other
that really does understand how to enjoy life and how

(01:59:23):
to make sure that I am, my kids enjoy life.
So your your family travels with you on the road, now, yeah,
well they did, they don't anymore. I actually haven't traveled
in a long time, bro, Like it's been a minute
since I've been on tour. Uh And the last one
that I went on, they were with me. But um, yeah, yeah,
it's it's there's a handful of places like and I'm

(01:59:46):
really looking forward to going to Zanzibar. I love Africa. Um,
let me see, uh, Marrakesh, I really I really enjoy
it there, Cuba, Cuba, Son, Cuba later right now always,

(02:00:07):
I mean even then, there's so much I know, But
I mean like now, not later, right because yeah now, yeah,
right now. If you're just joining us, we're talking to us,
your Ramond, the family man who is here to go
to Now I'm playing, Um, I feel like I would

(02:00:32):
be remissed if remiss, I'm sorry, there's no tea on remiss,
boss Bill, So good, bro, we've got you. I was
remissed she missed me, that she missed me, I left again.
I was remissed. Okay, that was fantastic side side and

(02:01:01):
knew it about your your spouse. Um, any anytime I'm
in Gracie's presence, there's not twenty people that I run
to and point that your wife is Benita apple Bum.
Absolutely she hates great, great, great Gracie used to be

(02:01:21):
my product manager at Universal, and come on, dude, I
mean I feel like it's a badge of honors. As
far as being I mean so so just playing. She
was the one. Literally, yes, she's literally the person inspired.

(02:01:44):
She has a lovely backside well as a woman. I
would just like to say, I know you removed the pick,
but I saw the pick. I appreciate it. And but
she obviously she's artistic. It was artistic. I'm saying it

(02:02:08):
wasn't the fool. So what's crazy is that I got
all that's that, that grief behind it, But you know
it's it's okay, we appreciate it. I mean, yeah, I'm
not even playing the just but like no, I've worked
with Gracie for the longest and she's one of the like,

(02:02:28):
I think she's one of the best things to happen
to you. I'm in love with my wife. We love
your wife too. Respect Yeah, man, what did you learn
from the first marriage going into the second marriage? And
this is also the divorced clubs here, so you yeah,

(02:02:48):
we got to come on. What did I learn? I
mean my pay as this in my next album. No,
but I mean it's like you can't write a book
on that ship, you know what I'm saying. No, I
heard Raymond versus Raymond, you know, I mean, well, yeah,
can you get too confessional? Like now, what is here
my dear mean to you? As far as everything, everything,

(02:03:09):
the honesty and the music is is beautiful. I mean,
it's it's the it's the curator and the holder of
our greatest emotions, you know what I'm saying, Both good
and bad, you know what I'm saying. And there's a
lot of people are hurting or and a lot of
people that are looking for guidance in music, and we
don't realize how much like one simple message. You know, No,

(02:03:30):
it might not sell a whole bunch of hours, but
it could be one person's life that that ship just
you know, says or one person that's just like trying
to figure out, Man, should I do this? Should I
be here? How should I be living my life? And
that you know? But um, yeah, man, you can't. You
can't overdo it at all. Be honest, be truthful, the
truth when you talk about you know, in papers. He

(02:03:54):
was like, you know, I damn lost my mama. What
did your mom think about your first wife? Did you
get And it is the reason I'm asking this. Did
she give you the like, no, don't do this? Like
what did she mean much? It's the funniest ship in
the world. Is how we could go through all this ship? Right?
My mom? She she wouldn't show up at my first

(02:04:15):
wedding that I canceled. She wouldn't show up at the
second when she didn't sunk with my ex wife. She
don won't have nothing to do with her, but she
didn't want to have something to do with the kids.
And then they fuck up and they fucking end up
best friends. I'm like, so your mom and the ex
wife are now cool. Now they're cool. I don't know
if they best. They got their own odd relationship, but
they but they but their friends from the from the

(02:04:37):
perspective that she at least talks to her now and
they actually are cool, which which is healthy. I mean
some progress. I mean that's a lot for her too. Man.
She like she like nails, you know what I'm saying, Like, boy, yeah,
I was funny. Always wonder who's harder? Like she is?
Absolutely your mom? Was she very I mean I'm a

(02:04:59):
grown ass man. She can't really you know, it doesn't matter,
it doesn't matter, no better. But yeah, she's gonna always
be extremely protective of me, probably too. You know what
I'm saying. Well, I know you, I know your opinion
game is okay, not to play on the punt of confessional,
but I'm sure by this period at least between the

(02:05:21):
period of Here I Stand, Raymond Versus Raymond Versus and
and the four albums that uh that just real quick
here I Stand, I'm you know, I'm making like a
big these are big words to me. That is his
secret life of plans. Like yes, I agree, yeah, like

(02:05:44):
that was And so I wanted to hit on that
a little bit because to me, that was the record
and it's just from outside appreciate like because you kind
of did like you were doing like some E d
M stuff. Well, I think that was. I think before
that you had a couple that DJ no, that was.
It was after that it was there was none of that.
That record was pure. And if there's any did you

(02:06:04):
rush it? Because my when I first got I think
I got service with the white label. I don't know
if this ain't sex or I got service with the
white label. This ain't sex was on it, right, and
then that got can't. And it's not that I rushed it.
It's like they had an idea and right first correct, Yeah,

(02:06:26):
they understood what it was that worked. I was being
honest and where I was so not being considerate of
what I knew would work. I went with what I
knew was real. So I mean that's a compromise. And
and yeah, it didn't sell as many albums, but it's

(02:06:47):
the most truthful album that I think I have in
terms of a cohesive thought from top to bottom. It's honest.
It's like and it's probably my vulnerable it's it's my
most vulnerable title track as a mother. Yeah. Yeah, man,
that's the one where you were talking about songs and
lyrics moving people. I think I thought about here I
stay in. I was like, it wasn't in terms of

(02:07:11):
it wasn't cool to have a wife, you know what
I'm saying, And at that time, and I was like,
but I do. And if you're don't funk with that,
then that's cool, you know what I'm saying. But eventually
you're gonna get it. You're gonna get that party because
you can't party forever. You're gonna eventually have to go home,
and you want to go home with somebody that you
want to be with. The ladies got it because they
wanted it, well some some of them, and then some

(02:07:32):
of them just was like, I don't want you to
be married usher, especially the herd. Yeah, and you know
the reality of it that you know that that marriage
and that relationship you know was going to come to
it in or world was but it served this purpose
in my life, and I think I became appreciative of that,
you know what I'm saying that no matter what my
mother was attempting to tell me, and a lot of

(02:07:54):
people were trying to tell me about that, I think
a lot of it had to do with my lack
there of a father, you know what I'm saying. Like,
when I got into the idea of what I didn't
want to be. I did not want to be a
person who would just you know, I'm saying, just roll out,
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, anybody could do that.
But you know, and I tried. You know I'm saying,
I tried everything that I could before I decided to,

(02:08:15):
you know, throw in the towel. I mean, should I
even try it? Afterwards? Probably broke a lot of girl's heart.
Still sucking around, but you know what I'm saying. But
you know, it's it. Yeah, it was. It was a
phase that that needed to happen. So it was a
part of the evolution. And then in that I begin
to understand what I really wanted and the kind of

(02:08:35):
partner that I needed and the kind of support that
I needed for my life. She showed up. Yeah, when
I wasn't even look into it. It's just as I
prayed this, here's the reality. You know. I was going
through a lot, you know what I'm saying. I was like,
here's at the point where I was like living out

(02:08:56):
of my office, like I never want to go home.
I just wanted to just like just eat there. You
know what I'm saying. I didn't want to go home
because what you just didn't want to face that, like
being alone or it's just I just I didn't want to. Yeah,
I didn't know. I didn't want to be there. I
just did not want to be at the crib by myself.
I just was fucked up, man. I was like, I

(02:09:20):
wasn't working at that time. I was like just out
so yeah. But but then you know, after I got
a divorce, it was like, man, like I put it
all on the line, you know what I'm saying, and
and this is the right thing to do. I did
it for all the right reason. I wentn't trying to
get like some odd respect for what I was doing.

(02:09:41):
I was just doing what was honest and what was
about the art. And I began to understand the idea
of the art at that moment um. But I didn't
want to. I didn't. I didn't want it, you know
what I'm saying. I didn't. I didn't want to face
none of it because I felt like, I don't know, man,
I felt like, should I just put my neck out
there way too much? It didn't work, we didn't jail.

(02:10:02):
It was really really public, you know what I'm saying,
And it was what it was. But anyway, I see
my story. So my grandmother was like, you know, you
should just you should pray. I was like, what I
pray for? She's like, I want you to pray for grace.
And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna just pray for
grace because this moment is just hard to get through this,

(02:10:22):
you know what I'm saying, Like, I just it's a lot,
and I pray. And she showed up. I don't have
a good sound effect for that. That's all I got.
That's all I got loaded. I can't. Yeah, I can't.
Oh god, um I got what. They don't make a sound? Well,

(02:10:46):
here you go. Um Kelly, well you will destroy you.
You mentioned him earlier, but you know, I feel the
significance of you being behind uh want to want to
pop music's biggest stars and the route that you took

(02:11:10):
him bieber Velly, I mean not since Marie started taking
new kids on the block in working straining their career.
How did you manage to gain the trust of the
beavers and have them listen to you and and for
you to take them because you know, sometimes when you

(02:11:31):
get an artist, it doesn't necessarily you know, work out
as planned, Like if you if you could look at
all the artists that have Oh, I have a new
protegee and you're gonna you know, sometimes it just doesn't work.
And there was a war from what we heard between
you and Justin timber Lake to where's he gonna go?
Where is he gonna go? Right? Yeah, wait, Timberlake was

(02:11:51):
in the picture. There's a lot of people who I
did not know this. There were a lot of people
who had interest in Justin. I think that you know Schooter,
you know, once he found Justin online, he began to
kind of shop him around Atlanta, you know, because he
wanted to get with the specific type of artists from Atlanta.
He wanted to have like some credibility. And I was

(02:12:13):
at the top of the list. But he and I
were at odds. He and I. We had had just
me and Scooter. I ain't no Justin yet, so he
and I were at odds. But there was a conversation
about this kid that school was shopping around. You know.
You know, they say success has a million fathers. There
ain't enough people that I could think, you know, right,

(02:12:34):
and failures an orphan. It's not enough people. I never
heard of the idiom and my wife, Oh, success has
a million fathers and failures Orphan. This is literally the
first time I ever heard that term. Yeah, because something
you gotta sound effect for that someone feel I feel
like someone failed me by not giving me that I

(02:12:58):
learned on. So wait, what is it? One more times
as fathers and he he is an offer? Okay, I'll
marinate on that. No, but um, you know, he and
I really didn't. We went, we went seeing eye to
eye and it was over some sis like fifteen thousand
dollars and some shooting, some stupid ship like that. It
happened back in the day when he was promoting clubs

(02:13:21):
and so you had a relationship with Scooter before. I
had a relationship with Scooter Away before. Oh what was
he like? Who? He worked with your main dupri and
he also to work with Ludicrous go back and look
at it. So he's from Atlanta. He was in Atlanta.
I think he was at Memory at the time. I've
only heard of Scooter once Justin came on the scene,
So I didn't realize that he existed as a business

(02:13:43):
person before. You know, yep, so, but he was actually
managing an artist by the name of Asta Roth at
the time. So little College Pennsylvania. But still so he
introduced Asta Roth and he had this kid that he
was interested in, but he didn't really know what to
do with him. So he was, you know, kind of

(02:14:04):
shopping him around. He had justin in interested in him.
You know, they were trying to get the kid, and
he was like, what I really want to you know,
I really want to funk with usher. So I think
that Um it was Terrence Carter, who was my road
manager at the time. My homeboy was with me, Keith Thomas. Um,
Sherry Hughley or Sherry Riley. Now, by the way, incredible

(02:14:25):
book Exponential Life. She just introduced that book. I wrote
the ford and it to y'all. Y'all check that out.
But um, exponent Exponential Life anyway, Um, no, Exponential Living,
my bad anyway. Um, all of these people are like,
you need to meet this kid, and I'm like, well,
who is he there? Like, you know, he's he's just
a special kid and everybody's trying to get at him.

(02:14:46):
He's you know, he's a little white kid that school
to guy and everybody love him. I'm like, all right, man,
look I said, you know, I'm cool, man, I'm just
I don't want to be in business with dude, because
I'm just you know, we we just had words. We
almost came to blows one time because we just kind
of were angry at each other. So, um, I decided
that I was going to know. I was going to

(02:15:07):
studio and this little kid comes out of the studio
at j D's studio and I'm like, okay, what's something.
He's like, I'm I'm the kid they've been telling you about.
I'm Justin Bieber. I'm like, We're nice to meet you, Justin?
He said, can I sing for you? I was like, no,
you can't. See that's how it always should work. So

(02:15:29):
I said no. I said, but what I will do
is I reach out to your manager and make some
time maybe to meet you sometime. Cool. He's like yeah,
I said, if it's meant to happen, then I'll see
you again. He's like okay, cool. So I went to
the studio and UM, you on really seeing him again? No? Yo,
that's real? Yo. I did. I didn't because I still

(02:15:52):
was like, you know, I don't want to. I don't
even want to invest in it. But it was it
was two things. No, it was it wasn't that I
didn't plan on sing him again. I didn't plan on
rushing to hit uh to to call Scooter. Because I
seen him and I saw it, I was like, I

(02:16:12):
was like, no, this kid got something. So I was like,
but I'm good. So I went in the studio and
I was like, you know, I mean it was that
kid and they were like, oh man, that's some some
artists and Scooter guy. I was like, y'all gonna do
anything with that kid? And the like no, man, just
I was like cool. So then I walked out after

(02:16:33):
my session and um I played because I didn't looked.
Once I saw the kid, I went and looked him online.
I was like, oh, this kid he got something. So
then I called my homie. I was like, yeah, y'all
all right, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, So I
went home showed it to my wife at the time,
and Perry Reid was there, so she was like pel

(02:16:54):
She was like, are you crazy? Have you lost your mind?
I was like, I don't really with him like that,
you know I'm saying, I just I don't even want
to get in the business because it's gonna She's like,
if you don't sign this artist, you are the stupidest
person ever. Are you crazy? So I was like for real?
She was like yeah. I was like, I get it.

(02:17:15):
She said, yeah, you can get past all that. You
should get past out that for this artist because he
needs you. So I then reached out to Scooter Um.
He was like, all right, cool, we had to fly
fly his mom, him and his mom back down to Atlanta. Um.
He came to my studio the next day, he saying
for me, and I was like, you know, let's take
a picture. Because it's be a part of history. It

(02:17:35):
was intended for it to happen, then it will happen, right.
He's like yeah, cool. So that night I was like, listen,
the ain't nobody else that you could have this artist
work with this artist with I'm the guy period. You
know if you it was like, well, I got Justin
and you know interested they put, you know, put something.
The day I said, I'm not gonna put nothing on
the table. I said, it's on you to make the
right decision, but be clear, that can only be one

(02:17:57):
justin straight up? Wait can I ask? But no, that's
really and I'm I'm I'm literally going against my my
rules of this show to not be sensationalist and gossipy.

(02:18:17):
But I never asked, like, what is your standing with
your contemporaries, Like I'm just saying with us, just like, okay,
I'm I'm down with common, I'm down with most and
you know my contemporaries like are you are you beating
with Chris Brown? I gotta beet with How could I be?

(02:18:37):
He's I was about to say, I mean, come on, like,
who else is singing and dancing like Usher? Not just
like I don't know what you're I've never seen you
and together or so there's there's always those stories, those
things that people say, but damn, I wish they had
had been smarter, been at the right time, not passed

(02:18:57):
up on this artist, not do this thing, not do
that right. So there's one thing in my career that
I definitely regret, one thing, and to this day I
battle with it, which is why I always show support
for this artist whenever he asked, and I'm I've always
kind of like it ended up being more of a relationship.
There's a reason why I'm drawing it out like this anyway.
But um so um Mark Pitts comes to me and

(02:19:25):
he's like, I got this artist uh, and I'm like, well,
you know, I'm just really focused on myself and he's like,
I know that, but I got this artist that I
really think you should see and I want him to
be your first artist. So I'm like, all right, well,
let me see him. So his manager comes in. They

(02:19:46):
have him, you know, they showed him to me. I
meet him. I was doing this album at the time.
They want him to perform on this album. I was like, okay, cool, Yeah,
that's cool. But I just I didn't get it. It
wasn't that I didn't get it. I was I was
a bit like I'm gonna be honest. I was intimidated.

(02:20:07):
I want to get the sound hold on listen. I
was intimidated by what it meant to move to the
place of mentoring artists and not be the artist. So
I felt like I don't want to funk that up,
and I don't want to stop what I think I'm
doing right now and do it too early. It was
it was a mature thing, but not clear, you know
what I'm saying. And then I went to I went

(02:20:30):
to my team and I was like, I really want
to work with his arts, and he was like, I
don't think you should do it. I don't think you should.
You know, you don't think you should work with this artist?
Um and then he left. Wait whoa, all right, I
got my sound effect? Really who Chris Brown? Wait, he's

(02:20:55):
Mark Pitson's artist. He was, He was a Mark Pitts
artist at the time. But I just think, like, when
I think about all that, if you had a chance
to do you even think you would have had an impact.
I'm just trying to tell you if yeah, well that
makes sense because Chris Brown really was like the next
and thenage of Bobby Brown. He Bobby Bage, so it's

(02:21:16):
like he's the next No. That would make you know,
it makes sense why they would reach out to you Tube,
I get it. Wow, but I passed man, So if so,
had you Okay? Now in hindsight, do you feel you

(02:21:37):
were why? Because here's the thing. I think that every
artists has something to go through, all right, because if
you even look at the success of what Justin is right,
because they went through similar ship. But but the reality
is having the right people around, having the right support
that changes the dynamic of how it pans out. You're
an anomaly though, because I justly it does. But it's

(02:21:58):
one more I don't believe. I mean, I don't believe.
I don't believe an artists being I don't believe an
artist being their own managers. And I know there's a bit.
I know there's a grip of artists that are in
my inbox, in my d M, on Twitter and all over.
There's a ton of ship that I do. I wasn't
the four things in my life, and I got lucky

(02:22:19):
with it. And I'm not saying I'm responsible for Jill whatever,
but it's like Jill slum village below. I don't Maybe
there's one Cody, I guess, but I've made a life
of avoiding that moment. Why are you smiling? I'm smiling
at Bill. Please don't look at me like yeah, because
Cody was a real person. We were just like yess Cody, No, no, no,

(02:22:40):
I mean, I don't know what the level of it's
intimidating to get out of the comfort zone of where
you are and begin to have the responsibility of other people. Man.
It's as I just think, artists make horrible business Like
you're either going to be a business person or you're
going to be an artist and listen off off the
heels of having three artists that didn't necessarily fly. You

(02:23:03):
know what I'm saying. I you know, I was I
had it was an artist by the name of Melinda Santiago,
a group by the name of Um One Chance, Enrico Love.
Those are my first three artis. I was about to
say I knew that and think I mean that that
ended up paying out to be a great investment because

(02:23:24):
I felt something different than him. I was like, I
just think that you were an incredible writer, Like, and
this is not a discredit to who you are, but
you you really do know your way around melodies and
you know your way around storytelling, so you should be
a writer. He was like a set of artists, It's like,
let's let's just let's focus on So we got him
a publishing deal and yeah, okay, So that's why I

(02:23:49):
feel like, had you taken on Chris, do you think
he would have listened to you? I do you know
the Prince actually went on record to you know, and
and and Louve his death. Uh, he kind of sort
of went publican saying that he really wanted to mentor

(02:24:10):
Chris Brown and you know, but I don't know, I
don't think Prince would have. I don't think that's too far.
I just feel like there's a difference between generations, and
the post can't tell me nothing. Syndrome would have would

(02:24:33):
have would have been like his Bobby Brown. I mean,
like that would have been you know it was, I
still think, but I think Bobby Brown was the aggressive.
It ain't a matter of was. I still am And
that's why I'm consistent, and I am a great friend
of his even through the complication and all of the ship.

(02:24:53):
So do you mentor him now? I mean as much
as he'll allow, Like who are you close to now
that you're not attitude business wise? That they you know
you're there? One am called like yo man, like I
need some advice on something like who? I mean it
could be as a ton of like business people and

(02:25:14):
uh young entrepreneurs, people whom I just make myself available
for his reality, Right, if we really want to begin
to remedy some of the issues that we have, we
got to be more disciplined ourselves to be people who
share high information. I had this conversation with everybody, and
I ain't talking about just mentoring people in your company
or because it's a company duty and responsibility to do that.

(02:25:36):
Ship No, find people to mentor and talk to them,
bring them together, create groups, talk to them as a
collective because you got insight and off of that, you
know what I'm saying, I'm I'm really tired of the
reality of of what we are, what we are, and
how behind we are, and the fact that we don't
allow ourselves to come together because we just don't come together.

(02:25:58):
We're not community, We're not community or oriented. We don't share.
We think that it's better to continue to climb individually
and not as a collective. Okay, I think now I
will insert the modern day a t L question that
I was kind of saving as a snowball earlier. But

(02:26:18):
the climate that is Atlanta now which very very active
almost at it's at least it's commercial peak. I don't
know about creative peak. Of course that could be agism,

(02:26:39):
old ages and me speaking. But are you are you
the character and things for all apart that is looking
at the land and kind of have a single tier
in your eye, like what's going Are you a stranger
on the strange land which is euro Yeah, when you

(02:27:00):
see the environment that is Atlanta now, like are you
relating to the stuff. Do you want to be politically
correct and be like, well, Quincy Jones, uh, you know
has embraced another generation, or like, what is your feeling
towards at least Atlanta? Why don't you just say it exactly?
What say it? Nig? What does this? What? Like? Just

(02:27:24):
say it? Like? I answer to how do you feel
about the ever changing environment of what Atlanta is now
compared to what it was twenty years ago? By the way,
it's always been that it's just needed a curator, a
person who could bring it all together and create some
integrity in it. And um, well, what I was leading
to is are you now el A Reid and are

(02:27:46):
you realizing that you now need to be l a
read of Atlanta? Or is that too a lofty of
an idea. It's not too lofty of an idea, because
in theory, yeah, that might, that might have some I
may there may be some influence in that to the

(02:28:08):
people who are looking at what my career is. But
what I'm talking about is more significant than just being
one man who comes and takes advantage of all of
the talent that's there and brings it together. I'm talking
about a collective. I'm talking about a group of people
who decide that our business is important, of a group
of people who understand that our culture is important, and
there's a way to introduce it. And yes, it does

(02:28:29):
take right, but no, but it starts with a collective
of people being on the same page, because it ain't
nothing worse than having a plan. And then you have
other people compromising your efforts, which is gonna be the
case period, But it can't happen from inside. You know
what I'm saying. If you have, if if we can
just come together, man and just start like supporting each other,

(02:28:51):
not just getting on the record with each other, but
like really helping and engaging each other, and understand that
the idea of growth isn't sharing. If you got five,
if you've got five hundred thousand dollars or two million dollars,
that ain't ship. Man, Gotta you gotta tell these kids, like, look,
you think you got something, but you ain't got nothing yet.
It's not until you begin to bring all that ship together,

(02:29:12):
aggregate and then and then build. Are they listening to you?
They slowly but surely listening. But I'm only one person.
I'm only one person doing my part in it. And
in a perfect world, but you need gathering. Who are
you gathering two in a perfect world? Who what figures
are you gathering at least locally? Two? At least make

(02:29:37):
this a semblance of a reality. It's a common conversation
with everybody that I come in contact with. It ain't
just one person. It's people who are in business. That's
the one thing that Atlanta has to have right in
order to be respected as a major city and in
business and culturally. It has to bring all of those
elements together in order to make it. And that's oddly

(02:29:57):
what l A. Read was able to do at that time.
The dynamic of what it is and what success is
it's changing. It's changed. So now you gotta figure out, Okay,
you know, do you get politics? So it's a matter
of getting Cassine Read in the room, you know, managing
to get yeah. Oh so wait a minute. That was

(02:30:22):
a paradigm shifting. Because there's a lot of property he has,
spig Yeah, is he a presence or is he just
a studio in Atlanta? Not? Tyler Perry is most certainly
a presence, but there's a more active in the community. Yeah,
or you don't know, I'm he know who, No, I

(02:30:42):
ain't gonna buity my tongue. I'm not that guy. I no, no,
I ain't that guy in the community. So looking at
the right to make sure your jaw is not going
to stop it. No, no, it's it's not that there's
a certain expectation that comes with stepping into that space,
and no one per someone wants to compromise what they
have in order to do it. So it's like, yeah,

(02:31:05):
getting people to understand that as a collective, if you
come together, if you bring it all together, you're stronger
and then you don't have to compromise anything, right, But
it's that one person who's going to step out and
take the chance with the other person and who's But
why not it be? Atlanta is the home of like
black wealth right now in that entertainment still and I
just mean in the entertainment type way it is is

(02:31:26):
not in an opportunistic way because you see a city
that's growing like we we can. I mean, but is
it really you feel there's red the in Atlanta right now?
As it? At least I was pid. I thought between
between eighty four with people Bryson and and and Cameo
and that class of Atlanta and brick like the arms

(02:31:50):
between that first migration between seventy nine and eighty four,
of all these artists moving to Atlanta and too when
you guys were the new Jacks between eight and I
always felt that there was a community like Eric Sermon's like,
you know, so I'm moving to Atlanta like everybody was
moving to Atlanta. Is there a community still or is

(02:32:11):
it just like every man for itself and every man
for himself because there's no formula, there's no business. Um,
there's no Clarence Avon. Mhm. Okay, I'll straight up ask you,
do you desire the stress and the headaches and the

(02:32:34):
gray hair and the sacrifice of your personal career to
try to be that Clarence. I'm not trying to be Clarence.
We can explain who Clarence avan is Taboo Records, This
is your shlf too, and Clarence Avant was the guy

(02:32:55):
who was ahead and finish. No. I mean, well, you
know my regret about my my regret about him is
that I feel as though the way he was painted
in the documentary uh Searching for Sugarman, Searching for Sugarman,

(02:33:20):
really painting him in a bad which I feel his
you know, when we get to the Jam and Lewis episode,
you know you'll see how important next to Don Cornelis
and bad Berry, Gordy he was like one of the
most important and stan Lathan like, you know, he's part
of the power four that actually had power and resources

(02:33:42):
in the sixties and seventies to make ship happen. And
so you know, if you had a problem, you went
to Clarence Avons to smooth it out. You know, he's
almost like music industries Jesse Jackson or Al Sharton like
be to go to guys to smooth ship out. When
everybody comes to Atlanta to take the piece of it,

(02:34:03):
but they don't leave the structure, it helps to continue
to build it. He's learning the Black Lily lesson. He's
at least more people at least more people stay and
build their wealth in Atlanta, because that's like one of
the you know, that's the difference between in Atlanta, because
now I'm here in North Carolina might be the new
spot for sports people, it's Phoenix, like I mean, I now,

(02:34:27):
like there was a point where Atlanta was like the
place to move, but then you know it got overpriced
and now it's hard to maintain a life there now
here Atlanta, people going elsewhere, to the Carolinas too. You know,
to start this is happening? Does that happening? So you
know it's I know, I know it's sacrificial. So in

(02:34:48):
some sense, yeah, where do you where do you see?
What's your next step? I'm not saying your last step,
but what's your next step? Uh? Are really do want
to make an album with y'all quest lost about it? Yeah?
I feel okay for those that don't know. Um, when

(02:35:10):
when the Roots do the Roots picnic uh our annual
festival in Philadelphia, UM, we like to do collaborative, community
based projects because you know, we feel as though that's
really the spirit of Philadelphia, the collaboration spirit. That's where
the Roots really shine. We're working with other people. And UM,

(02:35:32):
I'll say that all the collaborations that we've done year
after year, like we've done John Legend one year, we
did Naughty by Nature, one year we did Public Enemy.
We did not as we did Wu Tang. I mean
we did the usual suspects. Um, when we did our
ninth year, we wanted to I wanted to pull kind
of a non predictable move, and for me that move

(02:35:55):
was too you know, I was like, we should get
a singer. You should just shock everyone, like who's that
singer that people be like, wait, what the hell is
this like? And we realized that Usher is really the
voice of I mean kind of the voice of his

(02:36:16):
generation that really speaks to people. And so it seemed
kind of weird on site, but then it started to
make sense and you know, I just feel like there
was there was raised I mean, you even kind of
reached your eye brothers like what I did. I was like,
I should had the roots pick nap. But then when

(02:36:37):
the when the when the music started rolling, everybody was
like it was like a shock to your system, like, oh, yes,
me because us you got jams, you know what I mean.
And I ain't saying that just because you know you're
sitting here. I just think that there's a revolutionary sound
that compliments all of what you've been building, and I
really feel like I'm the voice to carry it out.
I feel like there's a mission that is bigger than

(02:36:59):
all of the ship that I've done in the past. Damn. Now,
I feel like but it's not it's not pleasure, it's
not pressure, it's it's pleasure. Like you really should understand
that it took all of that to get to this
place where I'm open enough and I'm capable of carrying
out what needs to be done and said, both as

(02:37:21):
a standard of business and also to a standard of
music that leads to the next chapter. It has textures
of our roots, Africa, Cuba, percussions, music, time, the reality
of all of what that is, and then also to
the truth in it. It's almost like a project that's

(02:37:42):
like the songs and um uh songs in the key
of Life, like it's it's gonna be something incredible. I
believe it. This is the record. I think it's a
record that I think it's a record that we're gonna
work on. I mean, but it's going to happen naturally.
I think that we've been we've been worked, you know,
working together, rocking together. But and now we get into

(02:38:03):
a place where we're communicating. This is communicating. We're communicating
in a in a way that you know, what I'm
saying gets us down in the space of just being
creative if you're just joining us. In the final minutes
of The Usher Reman, the fourth episode of quest Love
Supreme Usher Rieman is now proposing that the Roots and

(02:38:24):
the Ussher do an album together, and everyone seems pretty
much excited what he's saying, Like if you go back
to the what he's like, like that it's all of it.
Though I knew, I knew from the gate it was
gonna lead to this, but part of me is like
scared out of my mind. Why, um, but you but

(02:38:45):
you can't. But you can't look at it that way
because it's something that Okay, let me give you the reality.
The reality is in the process of making all of
the albums that I have and having the platform i've
I've been I've been living vicariously through a lot of
other people's reality. So even though they've been telling my story,

(02:39:06):
I've been helping the world through like poems and through
like the ideas of things, and then I've lived things.
But I also to need to support musically to be
able to tell that story and did not feel like
it's just a product for sale, even though it may work,
you know what I'm saying, But being able to understand

(02:39:28):
somebody who understands all those textures, you get it, you
understand what you you can't be afraid you gotta just
allow us to just go in it and just get
it going because around like this is a intervention. We
have a plane ticket ready for you to go. Literally

(02:39:50):
the entire room is looking at me at this point
in your in both of y'all's careers, right, But I mean,
you know, with you as you like you, and this
is in my opinion, you know, you really have nothing
else to prove, so to speak. So it's like, if
you want to make that quote unquote art record with

(02:40:11):
the roots, which I don't think I'm just using that
term loosely, but you have nothing else, Like we know
you can sing, we know you can dance, we know
you can make hits. And it ain't about it's like,
understand that it's not a it's it's about including all
of the different textures in places that we both have
gone to make it. It's not like just one specific thing,

(02:40:34):
you know what I'm saying, Like, use all of it.
You see all the examples of things that I've been
able to do and you guys have been able to do.
Let's bring it all together and bring the textures because
there's a story that's way deeper. I may not even
figure out what the the actual words to articulate it
right now are. But I hear you out and clear
when you hear the textures of what you know is

(02:40:54):
relevant in the sound and the energy of what it is,
and then you can go and put the soul behind
it and then go also to put the right production
behind it and the right ideas and the right ears
on it. We know that we understand that, and we
understand it in a way that they need to be taught.
You know what it is though, And maybe this is
coming forward. I see Bill looking at me because he
knows I'm about to reintroduce the self sabotage uh analogy,

(02:41:19):
self sabotage analogy coming up? No, okay, you know, like
when and I had to place this old women, you know,
like when women choose a toxic relationship, Like it's easy
to choose a toxic relationship because you know subconsciously it's
going to fail. I'm not going to go anywhere, so
you don't have an expectations accountability on your bright. But

(02:41:41):
if you choose a real relationship, it's gonna hurt some work.
And thank you for doing the work already, because you're
already doing it. We wouldn't even be in this fucking
room right now if you weren't doing the work fucking
right Thank you for doing the work so we could
be in this room. I just got actually where you

(02:42:01):
doing it? If you're doing it, and the and the
reality is it's gonna it has to organically. This really
became a freaking a mirror intervention. But you always preface
that you're afraid of something that We've had this discussion
a number of times. I'm sorry, I know, but I
don't know. I don't feel like knowing you as a person,
would think that you're afraid of anything. Yeah, it just

(02:42:24):
seems like more of like an opportunity that you just
think of a more competent person to carry that out.
I'm afraid a lot. I but I'm also wise enough,
as I've seen staying in other episodes, I'm wise enough
to listen to my ledged talkers, you know. And despite
whatever the pocket called leader jokes that you guys have,

(02:42:46):
I mean, wait a minute, the reason why Bill is
here leading as a producer, even though you know he's
a musical genius and all that stuff, and his his
organizational I'm just saying that I trust you enough and
your musical wisdom to also not kiss my mean, because
it's easy to have some employees that I have employees

(02:43:08):
that will just that are afraid of me and like
I want to make a mir upset. But I'm just
saying that we need so we need to right ears
and the right coaches around us to manage our expectations.
You just need you need in it. You need what
I call in life. You need an in a's Oh,
what's a non nigga advice? You need to love when

(02:43:33):
you're in there, you just right. You just need when
you're like, yo, something what you think? No nigger, you
need you no Nike advisor. Keep it fun with you?
Did you come up with a year old that was
so genious? We have all right quick good kissing man?

(02:43:56):
Wouldn't that show on the album? What is all all right?
What is that? With a string of singles that you
put it's almost like Gangster with BBD, like these really
good singles that didn't quite make the record, Like okay,
well what happened was cook was? What had happened was this? UM.

(02:44:20):
I started working on UM the album, and my son
almost drowned the day that I started working on it. Right.
So the album that I was working on then stopped,
and then I started back up, and then I had
to shoot a movie, and then in the middle of
durm movie right, and then I decided to take a

(02:44:43):
quick moment and I went to the voice and I
did I did that. So all of these moments that
stopped in between created like a different spot. I couldn't
just pick back up where I was from the from
the aspect of building the music. Rather I write it,
or rather I collaborate and write it. Because the second
single was she Came to give It to You with
with for Real, and I performed that record on on MTV.

(02:45:08):
Um you know part of it was I'm not sure,
I'm not sure. I'm not sure it was it was
the record that everybody wanted. That one was to me,
that one felt like a post blurred lines. It was
kind of like that was see. It felt like for real,
kind of he didn't have a lot left in the tank.
That's weird because as a DJ, I cherished any song

(02:45:32):
in the key of E minor, that'sm that's very But
that's how I think she came to give it to
you is my Okay, I need a one twenty year
that's in the minor that will lead me to a
different long story short I still spent it to. That

(02:45:53):
was such a that was such a disconnecting between the
work that I was working on there and then where
the album went. That in telling that story, it just
felt like it's stuck out like a sore thumb. It
had already served this purpose. It was a hit record.
People liked it. It did get I mean, I don't
know if it was as big of a hit as
I wanted it to be, but it was a number
one record, and um, what is it hit for you? Now?

(02:46:15):
In light of this, Confessions even exist to you anymore?
Is it's just like, what do you mean which aspect
of confession? I just feel now that you're about making
artistic statements more than dealing with man. I gotta the
only way to make a cohesive Okay, no, no, I'm
gonna answer your question that it does not matter to

(02:46:37):
me to make a record that is like confessions, like
I need to have confessions because confessions is never gonna
happen again. It is what it is. It was for
that moment, Jermaine Duprie and all of the producers who
were part of it were right where they needed to
be and right at that moment, and I can't go
back and get that. But what I can do is
moved to the next chapter and do something that it

(02:47:00):
was like a cohesive body of work that is valuable,
that feels musical, that feels like it's leading, that feels
like it's it's pushing the lines it is And by
the way, the idea of what music is for me
now has expanded. Like, Okay, some people may like, you know,
the older records that I did, but then there's some

(02:47:21):
people that like some of the new ship that I
do too. They like DJ got Iss, fun in Love,
they like on them g and they like the original
version of it too. Question, you know what I'm saying.
So it's like shots fired, shots fired. So but my
point is it's like, so now I'm forced with the
reality that I have a stadium of people waiting to
come and I don't have music to serve everybody right now.

(02:47:44):
I only have one record that works here, one record
that works there. And while we're in a time where
I can't put out a song here, a song that
and it's fragmented. That's the that's the reality of where
we are, you know what I'm saying. Like, Unfortunately, even
if people have an entire album, the people listen to
a single, they like this song, that song, and you
don't even know what album it comes from. So what's necessary?
What's necessary to create a cohesive body of work that

(02:48:06):
from the beginning of it, beginning to end, you feel
the connection. It might feel like it's a little bit
rocky and all over the place and text is taken
from all over the place, but it's a cohesive body
of work, meaning we need to go get in the studio,
locked the door, bring in our internet. What do you say,
bringing your internet board? And because there's a couple of them,

(02:48:29):
you know what I'm saying. Because there's a lot of
perspectives to be considered, and it is a progressive sound.
It ain't gonna sound and feel like anything, but it's
but it requires everything to make it happen. Well, Mr

(02:48:49):
Raymond the Fourth, I know this was painful. No I wasn't.
Actually I've really enjoyed it. Must have because form Yeah,
I'm sorry, I lied to you. Top of the top
of the hour, I told you You're just gonna be
like forty five minutes to an hour or nothing. He's
rubbing his head. He's not looking at you right now.

(02:49:10):
Pay attention. He's rubbing his head. No, but thank you
very much. Uh I. I hope for a great fruitful relationship,
uh in which we listened to it like speed dating
or something. Wait to see what yall do? Come on, man,
I mean, it's not pressure. It's like it's just I

(02:49:30):
will I can imagine. I won't say it's not pressure,
but we have confidence that this ship would be dope
based on your record and your record. It's not like
you're gonna make a just good friends, you know what
I mean? That should be the closing song, right or
get it? I like get it? Not no, you don't

(02:49:51):
like get it? Hell no, here we go like Michael Jackson. Besides,
can't help it. They knocked it out the part, but
get it and just good friends there. It takes a
little bit more discipline on your part, right to just
get prepared and then and then you know, let it

(02:50:12):
happen because I can carry it out, you know what
I'm saying. I can carry it a weight. And and
some of the ideas and the things that I think
we should add in are gonna be foreign to people.
It's gonna feel odd when they first hear. It's gonna
feel They're gonna feel some connection to it, but they're
not gonna know what it is. They're not gonna know
why they're moving the way that they're moving. They're not

(02:50:32):
going to understand that it's something different. It's something that's
intended to nurture their soul. They don't get it. Nurture soul.
I love those two words together. Uh. This this is
the wrap up of the show. But I'm telling you
because I'm speaking into existence until it happens, it's no
one's happening from you. Into existence. What did you learn,

(02:51:06):
bro man? I learned us as a real dude. Man.
One last question your studio session resident. No, no, no,
just question your question your food? Uh? Exit shot my man,
exit mark exit good child. Uh At record engineer, he
was telling me about your studio session writer and what
you eat in the studio, like like apparently your ship

(02:51:29):
is like crazy discipline. Like what do you eat? We
just stopped by dunking doing this before the interview. No,
but um, I eat fruit. I like vegetables. You know
what I'm saying. It's like bell peppers, broccoli, spinach um beats. Uh. Yeah,

(02:51:54):
it's boring as ship. But what's crazy is that that
keeps you. It's alive, man, and you get a need
to apple bomb hey everywhere like you know, a real
dude and listen to a story. Is a lot of
similarities and my story as a young kid growing up

(02:52:14):
in the South. And I'm just happy to just be
able to say a drop up with you. I'm a
fan and you know, always support what you do and
appreciate your brother for real. Thank you? Man? Um, What
did you learn? It's been an amazing ride growing up
with you number one, because that's how it feels that way,
uh in the CR evolution. But I also learned that
like Usser, is not only hella woke, but hella up

(02:52:37):
to doing something about it. And I know that you're
very community active, but you just took it to another
level tonight. And so I'm just letting you know with
some soldiers out here, we're ready. That's all. That's what
I learned. I'm gonna move my money to a black
think as well. Well. I mind is in industrial. Would
you need some suggestions Harver Downtown? Call? Wait, why are

(02:53:00):
you looking at me like you said you need back bank.
I was just saying I got some suggestions, okay, and
I'm going to take your suggestions when we off the air.
So the nigs don't know what my money bill. Oh,
what did I learned? Yeah? So what did you learn today?
I hate I don't want to say that I learned something.

(02:53:21):
But it's just always refreshing when you meet somebody like Usher,
someone his status and you realize that they're not crazy
and they're not they're actually down to earth and um,
you know, like every reason not to be Yea has
everything million records. Yeah, I'd be completely You wouldn't want
to be around me. If I sold thirteen million, thirteen million,

(02:53:41):
I couldn't tell you nothing. Six times. You couldn't you.
You couldn't tell me if I sold sixty eight million worldwide.
He is one of the top Billboard artists up the century.
Something my dad. I know it's something. The numbers don't lie. Yeah,
So that's how do you stay humble? Man? This is

(02:54:03):
I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I couldn't
eat doing it. You're fired, all right, I'm paid bill uh.
Usher and I are about the same age, and I
was just sort of wondering the whole time what the
hell I was doing when I was fifty and uh
and uh, it wasn't that. It wasn't what Usher was doing.

(02:54:24):
And Usher, I don't know if you know this. We've
worked tangentially on a number of different things, Sesime Street
and the otherwise, and we've never actually met. He was
He's saying, The ABC is like, motherfucker, it's one of
the coolest things in many years i've worked there. That's great, Yeah,
but I'm paid. Bill has a lot of jobs to
one of them is being a key Sesame Street songwriting. Yeah.
That sounds terrible, he I cat, but it makes sound

(02:54:52):
like I have an ego. So that's great. Thank you
very much for that. But it's it's very humbley to
meet you as well. Man. Alright, the ABC, the movie
you should you know it should definitely have wanted something. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
sugar Steve, what did you learn? Bro Um? First of all,
I think I know Butter. I think I worked with
him at Electrically back in the early two thousand's. I

(02:55:15):
can't I'm trying to remember what project it was, but
um Um, it's a terribly interesting story. Starting so young,
and um, you know, I've I've come to I've come
to respect your music and you from working on all
this on all this stuff with the Roots, and um,
I think I think a collaboration with the Roots would

(02:55:38):
be a great idea. And I think it falls in
line nicely with the rest of their collaboration albums, you know. Um,
as far as I think it would work, well, it
sounds like a lot of work, but just to add
on something after seeing the Roots and I should perform
at Brooklyn Bowl. Like however, many months ago, I'd buy
an album of just you guys, you know, doing the
old Yeah, I was that was my question, is that

(02:55:59):
can be? It? Is it gonna be? I was gonna say,
I felt like we always always cut me off. What
I'm trying to say. I'm sorry, No, I was. I
was wondering if you were imagining you're clearly imagining, um
original material for the for an album with the Roots. Yeah, yeah, UM,

(02:56:22):
it's it's gotta be original, you know. And maybe there
are moments where maybe there's a song that that's so
significant that we have to remake it and we can
do it in a way that makes it feel like
it was done for the first time by us, But
it would be nice to have it to have didn't
you record that Brooklyn Bowl show? Like yeah, recorded those? Yeah,

(02:56:46):
be nice you want to put that out available, but
we could in case we get we can set the
stage similar to the Roots picnic with he was tighter though.
Oh yeah, I mean we'll well, okay, we might leave
with a taste of what we're doing. Let's do that. Yes,
but yes, I mean there's there's the stuff is properly

(02:57:08):
recorded on two inch taping. You know, my tired I
have to say that. Um what you what you won't
know about Boss Bill or frant is that you know,
we all come from the Okay player community and uh,
you know I kind of felt that Bill was losing
losing faith in us for a good decade or so.

(02:57:32):
But in the Roots, well yeah, I mean, it's not
like we could surprise you anymore. Like you know, No,
I was, I was, I was, I was with you
all up until undone. Okay, Well that's that's that's that's
that's way more than I expect. No, that's that's only

(02:57:53):
one because his cousin was undone. It in cousin record.
It's only two. Yeah, well, okay, I'm just saying that
I was shocked that you really liked the Brooklyn Bowl shows.
So that was my Richard Nichols moment like, oh it
didn't suck like the Dame Dash. Oh it's not wet.
I was like, oh, I still got a future here.

(02:58:15):
Maybe I should investigate this exter thing. Um. I learned
a lot. I learned that you're probably the most thoughtful
singer I've ever met. Because I'm not saying most singers
are clueless, They're fucking clueless. Yeah. I meet a lot

(02:58:36):
of clueless singers that rely on their management and and
uh there there we'd carriers to kind of advise them
on what to do. And you you clearly have a mission.
I do believe that you are going to be the
mayor of Atlanta, Georgia musically speaking, uh not now maybe

(02:59:01):
when you're sixty year seven. I don't know, but uh
I feel that you will take that leadership role. Yeah yeah,
out politically a little bit, Oh yeah, I can totally
see us should being a politician. I mean, oh no,
you're gonna come back anyway. Calling that note on behalf

(02:59:24):
of Steven Unpaid Bill and Boss Bill and Layah and
Montigelow and us your Raven The fourth Uh This Question
Love signing off of Wess Love Supreme is a production
my Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the

(02:59:45):
team at Pandora. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.

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