Raphael Saadiq Part 2

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest of Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio,
Ladies and Gentlemen. Uh. As you know, we had an
epic conversation with the one and only former Tony Tony
Tony in Rabiel Sadiki UM. This episode we continue that

(00:22):
conversation with part two. He talks about more of a
solo career, making records, he talks about scoring movies. He
talks about all the other artists that he's worked with. UM.
Really interesting tippets for your music heads out there. This
is part two, part of Raphael sadiq One Quest of Supreme.
Hope you enjoy it. Ye know, how many other random

(00:57):
stories do you have like that? Because you just drive
me one too, But that's that's my favorite one. Oh
my god, Wait a minute, I don't I don't even
want to skip. I gotta ask you something yes or no.
And this is without blowing up your spot. I already
know where you're going with no. No, no, I don't
think you know. Is the four tops strung out for

(01:18):
your love? Does that mean anything to you? No, it's
it's it's it's on the Catfish record. I mean every
record made something to me, but not like that. I
don't know what I'm curious to what do you think?
Let me let me let me then ask who who
was who was the creative head behind um. I couldn't

(01:42):
keep it to myself, all right, I'm just asked, No,
there there's uh similarities. There's yeah, there's there's there's a
song on that Catfish record from seven is literally the
twin of that and I was like, oh damn, they
made they made the their version of that song. But

(02:02):
I mean I I felt like that's I felt like
those two core progressions back and forth was a lot
of different records exactly like anyone. That's what I'm saying.
It's like I Sam Smith situation, like any song not
that close but right now with a House of Music
for for House of Music? Was that just your derivative

(02:25):
challenge album where it's just like I'm gonna do this
song and that song. Man, my whole career is that
I know. But this this album, did anyone from Levrana's
camp ever get at you about Let's Get Down? Because
because because to me, I think they got that. I
thought that was from a deritive, a derivative of all

(02:48):
show um get down, get down, not get not cool
in the game. But Um, I'm your man. That's what. Yeah,
like they got a song. It sounds like that too
with that, Um, come on, let's get down. They got
a joint like that too. But the way the way
I was singing that song, I started singing it like

(03:10):
it was an effect on my voice, and then I
put an effect on my I was going, I started
doing that. But but Casey and the Sun Showing Band
got a joint. It's just like that. Yeah. For a second, Ropo,
I thought you about to say no. Their version goes

(03:34):
ding ding ding ding ding ding ding McDonald's and McDonalds.
So for me, for me, UM, I gotta bring up
all right, Yes, we'll enter some sort of talk of
what they do, but can you please talk about how
you discovered the great Spanky Chalmers Alfred Yeah, sure, man

(04:02):
h guitarist God, Oh yeah, my my mom. It's funny.
My mom is eighty nine now and she has she
has uh, she's lost some of her short term memory.
But one thing she never forgets to say to me
every other day is I showed miss Spanky wow all

(04:23):
the time. Um. Spanky lives with me, um for a
long time, and UM, so what happened was Spanky. Growing
up in you know, Oakland and listening to gospel quartet,
Spanky was sort of the king that I and UM.
I didn't know him for years. I just knew his music.
I knew how he played. And at one point, uh,
the last album What's House in music? I think that

(04:46):
Tony's last album was, and we have these musicians, everybody
thought I needed to make music. This is when the
Tony sort of split up. It was like outcasts my
side of the album and they did their side of
the album and UM in the middle. That sort of happen.

(05:08):
But years I couldn't really understand what I did. You know,
because there's always two sides to a story, and sometimes
you like to point you if if you're on one side,
you could point the finger. But I never knew what happened.
So we were getting together and we're gonna record together.
We had this house Jerry Brown was gonna record. The
whole thing was we were going to bring the press
all to one house. They're gonna interviews before we put

(05:30):
this album. That was gonna be a part of the press,
uh humble marketing plan. Then I get a call and
they were like, you record your side by yourself and
we will record our side ourselves. So they took the
guitar player that we had at the time. It took him,
so they was like, well, if he doesn't have the
guitar player, he can't be do what do you do?

(05:54):
I don't know whatever, So yeah, exactly. So I get
home and um, my mother has a friend names Frankie,
and if somebody in my house said Frankie called you,
I called him back. My mother's friend. This guy was
kind of like my godfather. But he said this. I
said this. Frankie said, no, this, this is Spanky, says Spanky,

(06:17):
who's spanking charmers and said the guitar player Spanky. I
was like, put something on it. I said, where's your
guitar play? He played the guitar on the phone, and
next day I had him in my house in Sacramento
and we was in several I never let him leave
after the let this guy. So I got him and we, uh,

(06:38):
we recorded bad album. We recorded with you. We recorded
with a lot of different people, and he sort of
wanted to teach me to play, but I just thought
it was impossible to learn how to play that good.
So some things I did learn I kicked. I kicked
myself every day for not you know, sitting down with
him more as I should have. But I really want

(06:59):
to introduced him to people like yourself and being different people.
And he got a chance to meet people like Pino
because he was so well respected in the gospel field.
I felt like his talent would lend himself to so
many people. And I was just, you know, happy to
have him. My life is as much as I did.
But that's how I actually met Spanky. How old was he?
He was an older guy. Yeah, he was an older guy. Um,

(07:23):
but this guy could teach. I mean, for many years,
people would knock on my door, my house, my studio,
I'm here for Spanky. Spanky's Uh, I gotta that's our
lesson with Spanky or even the album that he played, uh,
the Voodoo album on he played guitar in my I
bought from my uncle for like three fifty dollars. Some

(07:44):
guys sold him. It's just Gibson. I let Spanky use
the guitar. He played it all over the album and
it was my guitar. But when it was time to
give it back, Spank, you didn't want to give it back.
So and Spanky kind of fell out. I was like, Spanky,
I just let you use it. But it's mykel Tarry.
To this day, people still come by my studio and
they just want to look at that guitar. You still

(08:06):
have that guitar. You've of course met Sharky, correct, I
met Sharky a million times A Yeah. The story that
D tells me about Sharky was like he met Sharky
when Sharky was like maybe thirty twelve or thirteen, and
it's so weird. It's so weird meeting like and this

(08:30):
is the same for like DJ Harrison, Like there's there's
a slew of gen Z or millennial gen Z you know,
born in that it's like seven or eight when this
stuff is coming out, and how it affects them, Like
there's at least five cats I know now, four of

(08:52):
them who have never met Spanky ever. And it's it's
as if it's like, I know, you know when people say, like, well,
the spirit of blah blah blah is in them, Like
I fully believe that because I've never seen such a
mythical figure like Spanky and his story and the legend

(09:15):
of Spanky like now spread out through Yeah, it's just
something to believe and like and right now, like I
don't know if you've been back to Oakland or if
you're still like heavy into it, Like do you still
meet musicians that are like just off kilter like that
that are like killing that no one will ever know about.

(09:38):
But like just local cats, there's there's a couple, Um,
I haven't met anybody. I haven't met anybody like that,
but I know there's there's a few people brewing, you know,
um in every department. You know, a beat makers, samplers,
keyboard players, if if you if you keep your eyes open,

(10:00):
this is it's gonna be another one. But that was
that one, right there was a special one because he
was so good. But he was always keen on making records.
You know, if he worked with somebody, he wanted to
give you a part that that can make a record.
Like every time I play you know what they do
when they go learn then playing damn blowing Laron blaring,
don't blue. Literally now, I still on the guitar and

(10:25):
I try to learn those parsonal and I pretty much
got it, but I'm not as nice as spank. You know.
Spank is like I got hard bass fingers. I play
really hard, um, but just knowing like to put him
in one of the greatest hip hop bands ever. You know,
to to you guys that gracefully put that on your record.
When I was working with you guys in that record,

(10:45):
I feel like I had to do nothing. You got
the best you gotta. You got a guy to wrapping
your group that could wrap for sixty nine months, but
I'll stopped. You got you who's just gonna play a
beat that everybody like. I got spanky playing guitar. I
didn't have to do none but whisper something that was me.

(11:08):
I had. All I had to do was matching How's
gone boom boom boom? So people said you produced that record?
I was like, bro, that's like being Phil Jackson with
Jordans on the team. I don't know if that's producing.
That's that's called a that's called a perfect storm in
the room with the best people. Sometimes less is more,

(11:28):
and that trust me, that helped that Everything about that
should help. I also like the new you. You were
the person that also taught me um the one thing
that my girlfriend hates, which is abusing my awards. When
I got to your house, your American Music Award was
your doorstop. That's when I was like, well, you know,

(11:53):
Rob Yels, So I've used every Grammy ever had, like
bathroom all that stuff, And you know, is that is
that American Music Awards still like somewhere in the trash somewhere.
Don't you know what I just said. I just said, like,
I just remember I did this interview and I forgot
that that thing was in the corner man and somewhere,

(12:15):
and this lady wrote, yeah, his American Music Awards was
like in the corner with like dust all over him
because I just never I was. When we went, I
was like, yo, man, his war was a doorstopper, and
I was like, yeah, man, I want to be that
famous one day where I just don't give a funk
where my grand That's when we do when I get
my ship, you know what a guy. First, I was like,

(12:37):
I'm gonna top of you where I feel one of
the guys from around your way to the famous Tom Bell. Yeah,
I met Tom Bell through his daughter. One time. I
was walking down the street and I'm like, hey, in
San Francisco, SI, you look familiar, he said, I'm metching
before she said, you know it sounds like a one liner.
She was cute, and she goes, yeah, I'm Tom Bell's daughter,

(13:00):
and not go Damn. He said, that's that's what you
said last time you met me. So I said, come
to the show. She comes to the show. We're walking
down street. She put Tom Bell on the phone. Tom
Bell tells me, don't worry about awards, Rammy's any of
that stuff, he said, because when I the I R
S come to your house, they leave those on the

(13:20):
mantel piece. Damn and sold. Then one of my then
one of my friends who I got a drug case
and on my good friends, and he he wanted me
to bell him out. And so the Bell people came
to my house and they wanted me to sign my
They wanted me to uh signed my house as collateral.

(13:40):
Guy I grew up with, and I was like, I'm
not putting up my house collateral. In my head like
I'm doing that, even though I knew he wasn't gonna run,
but they was offering him nine year, nine year deal.
They wanted to cut his locks off. He wasn't doing
another out. So the lady and her daughter, they look
up at my wall and they see all these gold albums.
She goes, what about four dolls? And I did like this,

(14:05):
they don't mean nothing. I do mean nothing, act like
you got a billion dollars. I was like, are you're acting?
I love it? Okay, maybe I could part with is
maybe fourful a little while too. They took those gold
albums down like that was worth a million dollars a
piece albums gold? No about work, I mean, I thank you. Yeah,

(14:32):
they're not anyone getting out of this question this question.
Sorry right, Um, that's hilarious. I gotta say that you're
you're you're working with with G one and and DJ
Quick definitely felt like was the marriage mean to heaven?
Always wanted to know why you didn't do more with

(14:53):
them or at least in that period. Good, you're good
you um, really good questions. I'm a fan. Yeah, I
want to ask you about Jaking the Fat Man too
after this, of course, Yeah, but I wanted to know
why do you want DJ Quick then more, which led
to you and not I love your work with Jake

(15:15):
and the Fat Man too. And what happened was they
Jaking the Fat Man just just scratched them. They're just
terrible people. Um damn wow Um worth talking about that. Bobby,
the guy who programmed drums, was like really good. He
was more like he was more like trying to be
like a diller, did he I've I've always needed drum

(15:37):
programmers to to finish what I like to do with
He was that, but the rest of it was not
even not worth anything talking about. But damn back too
Quick um in in in g one. The reason why
we didn't do more songs because it was a budget
thing and I wanted to do three songs with them,
but the band kept saying it was too much money.

(16:00):
So every time I would say it was okay, Quick
will come back to me and said, lawyer said it
wasn't okay. So after three times I asked my brother,
who's saying no when I'm saying yes? So we were
gonna get about three songs for probably forty five dollars?
Was up deal for Quick? And Quick was being really

(16:20):
cool with us, and they wouldn't. They were never okay
to budget, So um, we end up only doing one,
which we we we would have follow up songs and
it was let's get down, and pretty much nobody showed
up to the sessions but me. So that was the band,
wasn't it. That was just me and Quicken and g one.
And that's why we didn't get more songs. I wanted

(16:43):
three songs. So if we have this record, we'd have
a follow up and a follow up. Do you know
you're young? You know, you know knowledge is wasted on
the young. You know, we didn't didn't know, you know,
towards the end of the house of music, Did you
know that this is the end of my my tenure

(17:04):
with with Tony Tony Tony. Yeah, I I was short
of the dummy and that that one because I think
I went to like the president, was like, yeah, this
is my last album, and I had written more than
half the songs and so um, that's a mistake you
don't do when you because they would have promoted the
song even more the albums if I said I was

(17:27):
doing the next album right. And so instead of putting
the money into us, they put into the other little group.
They had those little three kids, uh I forget the
name of him. Now, three little white kids, little pop
group theme. They were brothers. Now that la before them?

(17:47):
Was it was it all? It wasn't It wasn't like
those that type of group like it t r L
group or yeah, I saw with the t R S
to something brothers. They were like the hands it's not
a t Yeah, it was Hansen. So once I came

(18:12):
back like, you know, yeah, I don't think I'm gonna
do any more records and a solo record, and so
what they did they just made the money back that
they put out on this and they kept moving with
the next bay that move on my part, but I
was definitely I definitely knew that I didn't know if
I was gonna do a solo record. I was really

(18:34):
confused because I really loved being in bands and so
you know, yeah, which leads to the the original Lucy
Pearl which was supposed to be Um Delroy with Lin
with Rose. Yeah, talk about your slash lim Wood Rose
slash like your side groups and the idea of the supergroup.

(18:56):
That's sort of I mean, yes, Lucy Pearle got off
the ground. But well the first the first one was
gonna be Limbert Rose with but with Michael Archer and
and and Uh and Q Tip Kamal and Mal was
partly in a Rose. I did not that I did

(19:19):
not know it was us three. But you know, those
are my really good friends, and we were very left
brain people and we're artists and and at the time
d was hot is you know, he was hotter than
Fish Crease at this point. So you know his defense,
he couldn't really stop to do that, you know what

(19:40):
I mean, He couldn't stop to do that. He wasn't
gonna stop to do that. But he wanted to do it.
Um Tip kind of wanted to do it. But but
all of us, being so left brain, did it. Just
it could have never worked, you know what I mean.
I mean, you know the story better than me, So
speaking away before I forget, what exactly did you do
on Midnight? Because I asked by power at the time,

(20:01):
like Raphael has credit on midnight or midnight on Midnight Marauders?
Is that you on basis that your fuzz line? No,
that's me on the night is on my mind? Yeah?
Well the song is called playing Bass Bass Okay, okay, right, yeah,

(20:23):
I'm thinking it's the guitar organ found. My claim to
FAMI is I'm the only R and B cat on
one of the biggest hip hop album in the world,
like shut it down, drop the mic with hip hop fans.
I want to hear it. Your dreams, you came out
to play with them. Uh the first Like me and

(20:43):
Trek went to a tried New York show in New
York and you came out and play bass with him.
We was like like losing our minds and yeah, I
love hip hop. Was just so I mean's so it's
so bassavy for me, and I just like when I
first heard I first heard rappers the light when I
was a kid came on the radio or I was

(21:05):
like and it wasn't good times. I was like what
is this? I was like, oh, it's on, And from
there it was all about it was all about New
York hip hop for me. I just always uh I mean,
I just always like the brown Stones. I was in
love with brown Stones. I didn't even know what they
were called. You know. I actually like when I saw
run DMC come to Oakland and they got off the

(21:26):
tour bus and Hurricane and all these jackets came out
with def Jam. It just looks so New York, looks
so powerful and strong for hip hop. I just always
uh knew it was it was. It was a base
thing and I just always wanted to you know, beats
and bass. I still want to do a project where
I'm playing bass and it's just basing drums and I

(21:48):
just got like mcs just like rhyming on the album.
Just why what? What's that organization you know organizing it? Yeah?
How how when you finally got to do Instant Vintage?
How is that for you? Like to you know, like,

(22:10):
now that you're officially on your own as a solo artist,
what was it? Was it an easy pivot to do?
Or you know, because now you don't have I mean,
I'm assuming that there's some level of collaboration between you
and and yeah, the rest of your band that you know,
makes the process easy. But if you're there alone just

(22:31):
making the decisions that that has to be a harder
thing where you're responsible for everything musically, It wasn't hard
at all. Um. What was hard was the interviews mm
hmm um, the press because I was used to being
able to if I was tired to break up the
interviews into like two or three. I don't know how

(22:53):
people do the whole solo thing, whereas it's like people
talking to you all day that that drove me crazy
play music. I could you can leave me in the room.
I mean I got everything in my room, right, now,
I got ableton here, I could pull up right now
and write a song right now. I got my mic
and here, I could do that all day. But when
you start getting me like you gotta talk to wenty people,

(23:15):
and I'm I can't go like Dwayne take to take
fourties to him, take three of these. I was confused
about that. I think I gave a call to UH,
to Mike Mike Archer, and I said, hey, bro, man,
I gotta give you a couple of props because this
is like a little different, you know, like and you
know he don't really do interviews that you don't do him,

(23:39):
you know, but you know you can't, you know, So
I'm I couldn't really be that person. It looked like
I'm copying printed somebody. I don't talk to people. I mean,
I really couldn't pull that so um. But yeah, I
think I was the hardest part. And I think performing
live was I thought I had it all together, and
I did this show in Chicago. I think I was
singing this called um um dam. I don't even know

(24:03):
the name of the song. Now go upstairs and change. Yeah,
I'll sing a body string arrangements on that song too. Man.
I love the stringing than that was. That was Benjamin right,
and I think I walked out and I just uh,
I sounded like the sheep every for the whole song.

(24:24):
I was like, y man, a long time, I'm talking
about the whole entire song. I'm like, shake out of it,
shake out. I couldn't do it until like maybe second
in the middle of the second song, I popped out
of it. I said, I didn't even know I could
be that scared. I was really nervous because when I
had my brother on this side and Tim and all

(24:45):
the guys behind me, it's like you got a wall
of people. You know, it'd be like you're playing with
the roots and like just leave everybody off the stage
and you just go play drums and you go wrap
a song. It's it's it's gonna be a little different,
even though you know you're about to get off, because
that was a little weird. Yeah, I want to ask
you about that record too, man um the record with

(25:06):
Calvin Richardson. How did y'all hook up? He's like another,
excuse me, yeah, man, excuse me. Well that song I
thought that song for Angie Stone, okay, And so once
we were singing and it was happening. I was like, hey, Angie,
I think I needed some malbum and he just happened
to be hanging out with her that day and I
told both of them. I was like, yeah, I think

(25:26):
I'm taking this one from my album. And that's how
I got on the album and they were cool about it.
And speaking of excuse me, speaking of excuse me, um dog,
why did you? Why did you take the Live off
the House of Blues album out of rotation like nowhere

(25:50):
only because that version of excuse me on that record?
To me, when you guys do the false ending, it's
gonna be y'all and then you go back into the song,
that's my favorite ship. I abused, like after I heard that,
almost every Root song does a false ending. Yeah, goes

(26:12):
back to that is my favorite thing. I'm just begging
you please put that record. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that
wasn't the varse. That was not that was the first
when that was the first records that I like that
I did independently. So those two records Ray Ray and
that record I'm rereleasing, and I'm trying to get the

(26:32):
Lucy Pearl album back right now to h to release
them all. Of my my new my new venture wait
for streaming. No, it's still available, but it's not not
the way it should be available. Trying to bring that
thing back under new management. About Lucy barrol Man, So

(26:53):
I've seen, yeah, I've seen, Like I've heard stories from
a lot of people that were involved or don stuff
from your perspective, what was that experience? Like what what
was the kind of rise fall whatever? How was that? Um? Yeah,
why did you only do one one record? Um? Well,

(27:14):
Don Robinson only she she wanted to do a solo
album before she actually worked with us, and I think
she wanted to do a solo record when she worked
with UM Invoked. So I think Sylvia Rohn gave her
a deal. Dr Dre gave her a deal and none
of those worked out. And then, Um, she kind of
grew up in Oakland. I think she's from Connecticut though
from um some part of in some part of Connecticut,

(27:37):
but she grew up in Oakland a lite. So I
just thought first we were gonna we were auditioning girls.
In the first girl we talked to Akmar Braxton Kay,
so then we were like maybe not and um, then
we said, so somebody should I should call Don Robinson.
I kind of heard some stories, but I was like,

(27:58):
you know, let's see if she wanted to do it.
And she agreed to do it. We worked with it.
I got my friend May to Uh. She's a female
writer who don knows, she's some Oakland. She's singing with
a lot of country singers. She's a great writer, and
so she came on. She came on board and we
just got together as soon as the record came out.
We got to after damn. Don was like, this is

(28:21):
my last record, my last tour, and we were only
like three months into the record, and so she pretty
much quit. She pretty much quit pretty fast. And I mean,
if you follow her thread on YouTube, you'll hear at
Doggings just killing me saying I helped her lose her house,
and yeah she's not happy. I mean, but the girl
was on together for three months. Your house would have

(28:42):
been in escrow. I mean, I al said we didn't
stay longer than we didn't. We didn't stay together long
enough for somebody to buy house or lose a house.
And then came Joy, and then Joy helped me out
and came to finish the tour for us. We were
just finishing the tour off. Really that was there, but
we had to we had to blast make an album.

(29:03):
But when we were doing the vocals, I pretty much
we go to La Mandrean and get drunk and then uh,
the other guys would produce vocals with her. Dr Drey said.
Dr Dray said, So I want to know this, how
did you get an album done? Album to La Mandrel
got drunk or she did vocals? Appreciate That's that's hilarious.

(29:29):
So with with Joy because I love like of your
of your solo records. I think maybe Ray Ray might
be my favorite, you know what I'm saying that record? Man, Listen,
we was on we was on tour. That's we was touring.
I forgot little brother was touring someday where I can't remember,
but we used to run that ship on the tour
of Us and Joy's intro. Like, I did a record

(29:52):
with Joy a couple of years ago. She came to Crew.
We recorded Man what Love? Because for me, Save Us
is the greatest song of all time. I'm out that
song the next Root record, especially specially now. Yeah. Yeah,

(30:16):
that's funny that Yeah, that that was a that was
gonna be my record to the way I kind of
curated those records were like, that's when I didn't intind vent.
I was like, this is my introduction Ray Ray. I
was like, I'm just gonna have the most fun I
could ever have. And then when I did the way
I see it, I did. When I did the way
I see it, I was like, this is gonna tell

(30:37):
everybody how much I was like love the motown in
the sixties. So I just really played dress up um
on that record, and I dressed like that for a
whole year. And and I had because that record actually
came out before Amy went Amy Whinos came out, and
we used to talk a lot about and she came
out with her record and really blew up, which gave
me an open gate to like really taking that record further. Um.

(31:00):
But yeah, that was that was in my records and uh,
your Little Brother records though, Bro, We're just I was like,
what I mean, thank you so much? What record? What records?
What record was it? Was? It? Was it Little Brother
or was it UM? Another group out of Detroit that
did the uh Sum the Slum that did the spoof

(31:23):
of um cheating Bob of the jazz singer that was
that was that was that was did a spoof too, though, right,
we did. We did like the cheating the ron Osley
are currently kind of spoof. We did that over Yeah,
that's all me, okay, because thank you, Bro. I didn't realize.

(31:49):
I didn't realize that you were doing both voices. I
thought the straight guy was was was always I thought
you Ronsley, and I thought the straight boys guys was, um,
I'm forgive your partner's name right now. Damnoo boo yes
nah no, gus, because I thought, who's purposely singing like sharp?

(32:15):
Like I thought there was a whole signs behind that thing. No, No,
that was me. That that really makes me okay. My
little brother came on. I was like a little brother.
I was like I was chilling everybody. I was like,
thank you man, thank you man. And you have to sing, Bro,

(32:35):
you could sing sing? Yeah I try. No. Yeah, when
we did Ruth the last time we were together. That's
why we were together was that he was a little
brother because he was singing so good. I got, I
got all, I got all the way the home. It
was like that was him who was from little brother

(32:56):
that was singing the hell out of that song. Thank you, bro,
I hit you. Afterwards, I hit you and I was like, YO, appreciated,
but yeah, I was. I love that time. Picnic was
like I was like in shocked because you know, I
mean because question like the way where they just kind
of grew and everything. You just sit back and look
at how somebody grow. I'm looking at these people and

(33:17):
I'm looking all like the African artists on the on
the on the actually on the bill that all the people,
the kids in Philly knew. So I would go to
that stage, I would look at the artists and look
at the audience, and when I was just sitting there
like blown away, like wow, yo, you know. The highlight
of your show for the whole Ruth Picnic was that

(33:38):
if you was wrong, he was having a real good
time rosing rol. But speaking of that, speaking of that,
who is that dude that was playing a drum machine?
It was with his fingers Elliott Elliot, that's crazy. And
then I like flipping songs. But ever since that day,
I've been trying to flip everything I do us that show.

(34:00):
Uh no, you know, we we just wanted to do
something different. It's it's where did you say that? Because
like I was trying to figure out like, okay, now
now that we've turned in the earth, like you know,
the roots started out as a threesome, as a foresome
you know, we just when we meet interesting characters, it's

(34:20):
just like, all right, joined the band, joined the band,
or you played too but joined the band, joined the band.
I was actually having like a Graham Central Station moment,
and I was like, yo, be really dope if we
had somebody that played the role of chocolate. You mentioned
chocolate earlier, um, Larry Graham's former girlfriend that was playing
the drum machine back in the day, And I was like,

(34:42):
I want something. And we just happened to look on
YouTube one day at the time. We you know, Jeremy
Ellis and stro We're two dudes that just played, you know, instruments.
It's it's like we still don't know what to call
and we just say Strow Elliott on the beatbox. But
it's it's it's it's a new there. There's a whole

(35:04):
new generation of cats that like that are redefining what
musicianship is. You know what I'm saying for years that wait, American,
You're gonna go off a ray, right because I just
wanted to ask Rafael about an unsung singer that needs
to be song Tdra Moses. Can you just talk about

(35:24):
her boys second? Please? Ted is my it is a
weapon man, people. She just she started a little later
in her career. You know, she had twin boys, and
she was younger and she had to take care of
boys like she so tad. I wrote that I had
had this at my label and I I signed Truth

(35:46):
Hurts and I had m Yeah, ok so I put
truth that record that teachers sing taking me for Truth Hurts. Yeah,
me too, That's what I said after She's so so
she so, Teacher was singing a song in the studio
and I'm looking at teacher. You know, teacher got to

(36:07):
these beautiful legs too, right, so the boom in the
body and her body is like yeah. So I'm sitting there,
She's singing take Me, and I'm sitting here like yeah
in a way to her singing this song. But teacher
is like her pen is crazy. Her vocal ranges is crazy.

(36:29):
If anybody, I said, if anybody, I want somebody. She
even wrote that song I want you back on the
yeah yeah, So I took the melodies from her for
those records, and she just always somebody I really like
to work with. If I was definitely doing the Duets album,
which I don't think I really am, you know, but
she would be the person. Wow, man, man, she was

(36:51):
my crush back in the David and people. I was like, man,
could you could you have ever had guests like how
big of a song that Scott? Can you feel? Me?
Was gonna There was a night that Eliyah passed passed

(37:13):
away when I wrote it, So I wrote this. I
wrote this song with Aliah in mind. Um, everybody was
calling me and I thought my friend was in the
plane too, the team of Robinson. So I was in
this kind of different mood than I had Ray Murray
with me from Organized Noise, the Ray Program program, the

(37:35):
drums on that and uh Ray Ray also titled my
album Instant Vintage. I just remember him making it beat
and I just started playing those cords on the piano
and after that we started writing it. It was just
the song on the record and this guy uh from

(37:56):
London and one of the biggest DJs ever, Josh Peterson,
as he knew somebody. They took the record, they remixed it,
and I saw the record that a me, but and
it said, um, Sky can you feel me? Remix? But
it was for sale and I'm like, what is this?
And it was extended and it was long, and I

(38:18):
bought it. I listened to it. It was a look,
yeah you know that happened. And um I finally met
the guys like fifteen fifteen years later. I met him
like on my last tour and then we were all
talking about it. And I would go places and I
would play that song and people would just like go.

(38:38):
It was almost like the guy of that that movie.
He he was like really big in Africa and he
didn't he didn't know it. Figure. That's how Sky was
for me. Right. I would go somewhere I'll be dude,
and and people start like I was playing, like what
you no? I had? So I had not. I had
not a clue and I used I usually can end

(39:00):
my show with that song. Yes, now I love that song.
The version that year is the version that we do
not recognize. Which version is it? Version on the album
is the one that you hear, but there's a version
just so long. They just extended the strings and yeah,
they just extended the strings. I wonder if it was
jam who who did that yam who edit? Yeah, I

(39:23):
think he didn't make me hot? Oh he did that nice? Okay?
Yeah right, Giles did the same thing for us, like
back when our first record was just like some local thing.
He took our record and pressed it up and just
started playing it like he was the John Peel. But

(39:44):
sell it, because that's a whole another thing, like what's
the up with that? You can't just be pop, don't
just make copies of it. I don't think he personally
sold it like he just made He was just making
something for it. Be like me making an edit so
I can DJ that night, that sort of thing, right,
you know, because needed four hours of content for his
radio show. Yeah man, you know that almost like a

(40:07):
hidden cutter like bird on side toube. But I always
wanted to know, like why wasn't that ship a single?
Like m yes, I mean people, I just feel like
but after after after, it never ranged an anniversary. We
were just floating. It's like whatever it felt unless you

(40:29):
were a music connoisseur. We were. We were. We were
just floating. So that I'm I'm still floating, you know,
I mean that's what I've been, just floating, floating, floating.
If I didn't love music, man, I would have been
done after it never rained, Rafael with you. All those
romantic words come from those ways of saying things like
where does that come from? Is that like relationships? Or

(40:50):
is that just this is what I feel like? Where
does that come from? It's just what I feel, It's
just it's just I just. I just said the things
that the guys want to say that they can't say.
But that's why I would I see people just. I
remember I went to a show like the West Coast
Hip Hop Show, old school hip hop show, and it
was at Universal before they tore it tore down the
Gibson Theater and in the back it looked like it

(41:12):
looked like the yard. It looked just like Chris Blood
just and when I walked through the yard, every every
gamester was like, no, uh this song and this song
means this to me. At the end of the day,
at the end of the night, when you're trying to
be hardest break sait end of the night, you're probably
trying to lay down with something. So you know, we

(41:36):
we grew up with the Isley Brothers and we grew
up a run and you know, like in my biggest
you know, del Final is some Philly group, right, um,
and those are some of my favorite groups. And the
del Finds was the coldest group because they were talking
about leaving girls and girls was in love with him.
It was like, didn't not blow your mind this time.

(41:58):
My older brother said, you didn't want to take your
girl to adult phonic show because even though they was
like I thought this, I thought this, this harder was true. Girl,
now did not think it, baby, but this time I'm
really leaving you. But every girl wanted to see him,
So I think for me it was always if you
could like make them passion his songs. But honestly, I

(42:20):
want to blow it for girls. But I was really
in the love with the music. The words that I
put on top, I just felt like the words that
go on top of the song. I haint this some ship.
This is all the songwriters, This is what are we learning.
It's okay, all right, let's let's just rapid fire, because
let's rapid fire because you work with too many people.

(42:41):
I mean between D'Angelo and Total and Salange and yes, uh, Erica,
you want to grant me with loving my life? Mary J. Blige, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I want to. I was cleal yo, um, Peace of Mind,
the little Acting in Faith record, Man, how did that
come about? I love that, But I've been in a

(43:03):
Little Dragon before. They really got hot in the States.
So when they started, when they started coming over because
they were on my record, one of my records, I
just you know, yeh, she was on Stone Rolling. She
was on Stone Rolling, right, he was on that album. Yeah,
she was on that record. Yeah she was on that record.
Is the name of the record. But now, I mean,

(43:24):
I just I'm a utility guy. Quest It's like, I
just feel like if if there's somebody who wants me to,
you know, to work with him, and they feel like
I could bring something to the project, and then that's
that's kind of what I what I do. I just
worked with Kanye on Donda and Um and I'm on
the record, but nobody knows I'm on the record. It's
almost like one of those tribe things. Just tell me

(43:45):
the track so I can skip to it, because I
just I couldn't just what it's funny. I'm not I'm
not really on it. I'm just singing like something at
the very end of I think it's called pure soul.
And out. Everybody was like talking about like he's taking
me off the record. I just ever seen people get
mad because it wasn't on somebody's drecord. Right. But it's
a new generation, like are general we come from a

(44:07):
generation that following wasn't a big word, right, you know
now following. But I just think I worked with a
lot of people. But I'm I tell my nephew, who's
an amazing producer, piano play, a guitar player, Like just
be a utility guy. A person that don't mind showing
up to work with somebody is really good, you know,

(44:29):
you know for me, And that's what it is for me.
I just like if if you if you, if I
see you and you're like, yeo, I'm in the studio
to night, bring your base. I'm coming. I'm showing up.
I don't know what you're doing and I don't care.
I know it's you and when I leave, if it
come out, who if you don't. I had an experience
and I learned, like I learned from working with different people.

(44:50):
So I'm working with Snoop a lot too, and um
and it's like but there's so many different people that
come through. There's like great producers, new musicians, new people.
You see people running different programs. Like when I came
to your show, I spend more time looking at that kid.
That dude was making the beats. I was like glued
on this dude. When I left, I was like, I've

(45:11):
just seen all these lights on these drum machines. I'm like,
to me, that's what the music is about. Like, who
can I learn from? Like you? I played drums on records.
I'm minna make you on drums. It never sound like
you because I'm not you. But people like the beats
like I don't. I don't program good drums, but I play.
If my drum set could sound, I got a drum

(45:33):
set that finally sounds like speA. It's uh, it's your
drum set. That um one of the drum sets. Is
you one of your drum sets? That one of my
friends who was an artist, he took your drum set.
He painted it to look like my guitar were in
my room for like a year. My engineer took it
out and and he man, he set it up. That

(45:57):
drum is the best drum set sound ever had. You
want to know why? I told them. See they wanted
to like, you know, we got these uh we gotta
connect in Japan and we're gonna use the hollow wood
of this particular forest and blah blah blah. And I
was like nah, I said, what what do y'all use for?
Like them cheap high school sets? And they're like, oh,

(46:19):
you don't want that, quest you want these uh hollow
trees and da da da da da. And I was like, no,
I want I want the throwaway trashy ship that y'all hate.
And I was trying to tell them that, like the
break beats we grew up, one was done on the
cheapest yeah, yeah, like like a serious drum set that
sort of thing, and they they were they try to

(46:39):
talk me out of it, and I said, and I
want you to sell it cheap too, because you know,
they're like, our bottom line is if we sell a
drum set for two hundred bucks, then we can't sell
this one for four thousand. I was like, no, it's
gonna be like a drug deal, Like you're gonna give
him a taste and get him at hooked. Like you
get a kid at five or six year old a
drum set for two hundred bucks and it sounds dope.

(47:00):
Then when they turn thirty, they're gonna be drummers. And
I need, I need, I need, I needed a couple
of loads in my life. I'll give it to you.
I mean, because I'm trying to get rid of these boxes.
And my girlfriend will gladly welcome that request to make
less space in the house. We played, I played those
drums and I went back into the control booth. I

(47:22):
was like, sound like breakbeats. Yes, like break beats when
I've been chasing my whole life all right, working with Total. Yes,
you gave him some jams the whole day one. I
want to know how taxing was the process to produce total,

(47:45):
but more than that, like how easy was it as
far as Puff breathing down your neck for magic? And
you gave him really kind of this is funny. So
I didn't really want to do it, yeah, because I
didn't know what I could I didn't know what I

(48:06):
could do, you know what I mean, Like, you gotta
know if you could pull it off. So Joshlyn Cooper
at the time wasn't published for at Midnight Music, and
so she was telling me Puff was looking for me.
So I was basically running from Puff. I was like
I was not answering the phone and nothing. So Joscelyn

(48:30):
called me like, hey, Ray, I got Puff on the phone, right,
and so so this is even a funny part. This
is what Puff says. You gotta love Puff of this
Puff say, man, I really think you could do something
with this group. Man, like right Daniel Adlie like they're
not really singers. They something like you'd sick. I was like,

(49:00):
I was like this, okay, I mean I never said
I was luthor definitely, you know, I've seen to make
it work. But what he meant is like I make
things work. And so when he said that once he
got me on the phone. When they came out, that
girl Pam right, she has so much swaging attitude, and

(49:24):
I think they thought they were so much under the gun.
They sung with so much personality that it was just
flying off the tape, you know what I mean. They
song the tape like that Pam see where her sunglasses on?
One like oh yes, Sam. It's like she's like, you know,
just like I wouldn't know Pam if she walked in
my house right now, you know, the saying actually being

(49:48):
up being a really a fun project. And like I said,
I had Bonnie Boy. Yeah, actually vocal coaching them too.
Oh I'm not kissing you, damn. I love that song?
And what was the other one? Do they think about us?
Do you think about us? Now? I was gonna ask
a music supervision, scoring composing situation. It seems like, um,

(50:11):
whenever you jumped into the game, that you were really selective.
I thought that like Insecure was your first, but like
you even did Underground, which is impressive because you talked
about like why you went that way? And do are
you selective? And how you because I mean Lovecraft like
your official partner when you do TV scoring sometimes Yeah,

(50:34):
sometimes we do a lot of projects together. She do
a lot on her own. I know she did some
stuff with you guys too. She had a bigger picture
in the league in the studio. Wor you work with? Um,
you actually work with a good friend of mine before
my buddy man Sean Daniel Crawford. Um, yeah, that's my man. Yeah,
that's that's that's yeah. Daniel played in my band. Yeah,

(50:57):
that's one of my piano teachers. All my friends are
my that played keyboards on my piano teachers. I'm playing
piano like it's as good as I can a lot.
But yeah, Daniel Crawford that makes the remixes and all
that stuff. Yeah, wait, you do know that Daniel also
can do what Strode does, right, you know what? I
have seen it. Yeah, I've seen it, but he kind

(51:18):
of sneaks and does it around me. He don't do
it like I've seen him. I've seen him do it before,
and I was like, no, this is what he does.
He goes like, I'm like, who's the drummer. He's like, oh,
that's me. I was just like this and then and
then it goes away. But when I saw your guy
do it, it was like a whole Daniels in that
first generation. I couldn't get him. So then it's like

(51:39):
who else stroke and but Daniels like one of the
first guys I saw like play drums and keys at
the same time, asked him what. Laura's my partner on
a lot of stuff. We didn't love craft. We did Underground,
We did a couple of the Little Flecks, and I
was really just getting you know, just getting my sheet,

(52:00):
you get my feet in. And Laura went to she's
a great she's like a professor to school. So it
was kind of good, great going up being with her
because I was learning from her all at the same time.
You know, like like I said, I like, I'm like
a sponge. I like to be around people I could
learn from with Laura's role just for us the department.
She's a string composer, okay, because she like she just

(52:20):
you know, she pulled she pulled me into the academy. Okay, yeah,
like she she got power, you know. Yeah, well yeah,
she's really good. And um, I mean you can't really
be selective in that business, you know if you want
to get in, but at a certain point you can.
I just happen to be able to. I just happen
to get some great phone calls. So tell me about

(52:43):
the Lovecraft phone call and the Underground phone call. I
just because well, Misha Green is she did Green did Underground, right,
So it's like, once you on the team, if they
think you could handle it, they call you. And they
called us as a team, and he jumped right on it.
And when Secure, I was working with Solange and she said,

(53:03):
you did all the work I think that we should do.
That was that she was like, So I'm just funny
because when I was doing Insecure, I would be working
on the song and Solange will be like, oh, that's
for my album and she was just taking it and
I'll be like, yo, but I think it's in the
show now now be kind of gone. So yeah, I

(53:24):
just bet you know, just you know, I just felt like,
with music, you just have to be able to you know,
I'm sure you guys all experienced that with Ready or
being a Ready or whatever we in we all have
to diversify and do different things. I just felt like
and music, we all have the knuckleheads out as he's
a musician. He can't be on time, he can't do this,
and I kind of want to get rid of that

(53:44):
before somebody started believing that I was that person. And
in film and television, if they need a pink elephant
on Sunday, you have to deliver it. You deliver it.
That's why I have my setup right here in this room,
like the can I just pull it out bloom bloom
and just start working. So and I start to really
enjoy it. Now, I asked you, I didn't enjoy it
at first. I was just trying to be a part

(54:05):
of it because you know, I liked watching like Donnie
Hathaway used to score. He scored this film. Okay, so
you've worked with a lot of your heroes like earth
Win and Fire. I know you worked with the BGS.

(54:26):
I think, uh ship it was the earth Win and
Fire the BGS. I forget h well when yeah, you
worked with Whitney Houston. Is there a classic artist that
you almost worked with that that it didn't go down? Yeah? Man,
Eddie Kendricks. Wow wow yeah yeah we we we was.

(54:50):
I did this song called that song called Leaving. Yeah,
he was gonna sing that song with me. Oh don't
you hear that part though? No, no, no, no, no no.
So it's going up. So when I see that one part,
it sounds like the ghost of Eddie Kendrick because it
don't sound like me. When I do that one part,

(55:12):
I'm like, when I heard it back, I'm like, that's
not me. That feels like just like it's him on
that one part. Um, Yeah, Eddie Kendrick is uh because
my older brother Randy, he's like Eddie Kendricks and that's
that's his favorite and that's one of my favorite. I
know you did something on one of those Lionel Richie records.

(55:34):
What was it like working I did I see I see?
I first toured with Sheila after the under the Trade
Mode tour open for line on that was that it
wasn't outrageous. It was dancing on the ceiling tour after outrageous. Yeah,
so um. I toured with Lionel now so when we

(55:56):
called him the Lionel be so we were always pretty
much closer. I did this one song on Linel, but
the line was it. Line was like, Line was a
great storyteller. He'll tell you. He's like, if you don't
have any stories, then you can't talk to me. You
need you need stories, he said, who wants to work
with the A and R guy are artist our person

(56:18):
that doesn't have any stories. But you know we have
stories as we tour with different people. And you know,
me touring with in w A and hanging out with
ice C every day, you know, and and ice Cream
telling me stuff like you know, I want to make movies.
I'm gonna make movies, and then to watch him make
next you know, next Friday. I'm like, I heard him
say that early in his career. Didn't watch him do it?

(56:41):
Did you go to parties? I went? I went, I
went to I went to the to the the water
gun parties when everybody just running around the hotel, like
the cheap Motel six is like firing off water guns
and that stuff. Million ah, man, it wasn't a movie.

(57:04):
I wanted to ask you man, you had a record
because I was thinking about your You were talking about
your scoring career and like stuff for insecuring everything. It's
a record you just dropped. I think it was last year.
Maybe it for last Uh is it good? It's good
to you? It's good to me? Bro, Like, what's the
word on that? I love that song? Man, Like, yeah,
well that's like that's that was one of the songs

(57:27):
I'll put on insecure and I was it was like,
you know, it's very you know those songs when you
put them on the score, they're very low. So he
Sa Ray heard it and she said, can you go
back and make a song to that? So then I
just went back and I just put a verse on
it because at first it was just saying good too good,
it's good to me? And I did that in like
during the pandemic. I moved to Portland, Oregon. Oh wow,

(57:50):
Portland because I caught COVID and I was like, I'm
not going to be in dusty ass l A. Hey,
we are right over here. But I'm yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I know. People tell me that, you know, I see
all the venues you play. My best friend is Brian Grant.

(58:11):
He just played for the Trouble. But I've been going
out there for years. So I got a place out
there so I can hike and it's just nothing but trees.
So you're just walking through the trees getting all this oxygen.
And and like in a month, I got my spell
on my taster back and I just got back to
l A. I just got a place there besides my studio.
I was staying in my studio like stay there like

(58:33):
for like three months or three months ago. I've been
in Portland the whole time. Wow. And I found this
was a nice studio to record that. Bro, I found studios.
It's inexpensive to record that. It's a lot of musicians
out there that's untapped, and nobody know about I don't.
I'm trying to tell the world Portland's is where it's at.

(58:54):
They don't. Every morning, Bro, I got I got wagon. Bro, y'all,
do you see it. I'm not far behind you. When
I get my money, right, yo, I'm getting me a
spot important. Oh every hey Robael on the side, note,
what made you lock your hair? I was already curious?

(59:15):
Uh Donald Trump? Word, Yeah, what happened was I was
watching the news earlier on he was talking to and
I was like, this ship sounds crazy, and I was
just like I was watching the news, and before I
knew it, my whole head was twisted. Anxiety. How about anxiety?

(59:40):
Twist anxiety? Wait a minute, shit, you just twisted watching
the news, going like, wait a minute, I got turned
the white lights him. You're right, you're that's when you
started to a mirror in the pandemic. I was, I
don't know why. I just we're looking at my album,

(01:00:03):
my last album cover of Jimmy Lee. It looks like
my hair is short. But there's like a little tiny,
tiny balls on my hair. That's that's how short it
was when I was twisting my scalp or you knew
what I was growing him, that's what happened. Anxiety. One

(01:00:24):
of the thing that Donald Trump did. Thank you? Yeah, yeah.
Is there anything that you've not done that you wished
to do? I want to, I want, I wanna, I
really want to live in Europe for a minute. I've been, um,
I just I just I don't know really where I

(01:00:45):
want to live. I kind of want to go somewhere,
and I kind of want to make a record with
a symphony, but not a not a large symphony with
like when I listened to the Del Findings, I always
felt like they had a drummer like you. He had
a bass player that was like but as hell, but
they had an orchestra that was right right by the book.

(01:01:07):
So I've always wanted to make that record, but not
the big, big giant, just like you know, something that
you can't ever imagine having on the tour, but just
something like that would have But just when when I
always want to make that record when I can. I
sort of did it with when I had Spanky and people,
where I could just I could write on the spot,
I could just sing parts of people, and we banked

(01:01:30):
the record that way. I mean, like without just sitting
back and writing and kind of sit back and play
and then go okay, you do this, you do this,
you do this, and then go write the words and
have people. I kind of want to do that because
I think we're living in this experimental phase where nobody
really understands streaming or how are we making money or
any of that, and you know, we're we're so happy

(01:01:53):
about making pennies and people are all about, like you know,
people holding up gold albums talking about they streamed a million,
goes a million plaque. Is this It's really confusing right
now to me. So I just think the only thing
we have left is, uh, it's it's creativity. I think
we should be at the top of creativity and and
not don't worry about what everybody else is doing and

(01:02:13):
don't knock any younger kids or anything like that, but
you know, like yourself just bringing light with that. You know,
I don't know if you notice, but like that documentary
of that that guy that hosted so that guy and
listening to him and his struggle to get that thing

(01:02:35):
to fly and it still didn't come out. But all
of those people until now we might as well just
kind of just create. And so I think for me,
I just want to just you know, create. I kind
of want to take out a tour where I'm like,
it's just me. I'm working on a tour called to recital,
whereas um, it's me just playing piano and um and

(01:02:57):
basing and telling my stories now because the reason why
his car recide old because I can't play the piano
that good. I just can't play good enough to like
for my songs and and make mistakes. So I'll be
making mistakes, but most of them be me talking about
my career, like this interview that we're doing. Like a woman,
I'm different. Always wanted to tour like a comedian with

(01:03:18):
like with a chair and a glass and sir Warden,
bring all the money home versus just just a versus? Yeah,
who would you go again? Who would you go against?
In the verses? They had me going against D'Angelo, right,
I was supping to do that. She's the only one
that did the show stop. That wasn't even the verses.

(01:03:40):
I love him, but that was no verses. But I didn't.
I didn't do it because it was supposed to be.
They wanted to be Maxwell Maxwell. It was wasn't basketballing
him right, he didn't want to do it. But I don't.
I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I like
versus for this is funds to entertaining, But who could love?
Who could say? You see if you're if your legacy

(01:04:01):
were more tighter with the Tony's, I would have loved
to seen alive condition make condition Chris. Every time Chris
Webber sees me, he loves man condition. He's like, yeah, buddy,
I gonna get you in the stadion, make condition and
see what you do. Just Weber loves man conditions. So

(01:04:24):
he's always trying to put stokely against Meson is my boy, though,
Chris is my boy, but no, honestly, but stokely. So
you can condition in the Stokely records, in the rock
Yell and They records. He stokely is. I tell people
stokely seeing circles around anybody, and then stokely the kind

(01:04:47):
of person you'll be like in France and somebody like, hey,
stokely down the street doing a fusion gig on drums right,
exactly right, And then he's like stokely Carl Michael, so
his dad was a black college professor. He is like
this intellect and everything. I'll be like every time I
talk to someone, Hey, a secret smart guy. Oh, I

(01:05:08):
was gonna ask just about the um with you know,
with the Tony's, you know, with you guys breaking up,
but you know y'all actually family. How does that play
in your family dynamic? Like is it Thanksgiving? Is it cools?
It smoked? Like how do y'all handle each other in
real life? And our traditional things? Giving has been over
for so long. I don't even think families have traditional

(01:05:31):
thanks get anymore Indigenous people. Yeah, I think for us, Um,
my father always want to see us get together and
do something. And I think what we're gonna do is
we're gonna get together be Dwayne and Tim because you
know we're pretty much a grouping and beginning that wasn't
really R and B were more like the Black Police,
and um, we're gonna get together and do like um

(01:05:54):
a trio record kind of like a farewell, like thank
you tore to B. We're gonna do that. I was
at Dwayne last night. If you if you look on
his Facebook, he Dwayne can't go anywhere. Let's get down.
If you see Duane, he's gonna be singing whatever you
want or let's get down. Are singing. Hey, Hey the

(01:06:17):
blues is all right. Duanne is like the old man
just running around singing like the same song. Had a
dope single. Damn if I remember you had a dope single. Yeah,
but I'm just saying, Dwayne, he's not gonna miss the performance.
So last night I was in San Francisco before I
got to New York. We're sitting in this club called
Black Black Cat. These guys up there killing it. I mean,

(01:06:37):
I mean killing everything. We sitting in the audience with
the mayor of San Francisco, and this is as a
young lady and it's her friends. And at the end
of the night, Dwayne grabs a guitar to from this
guy from then the Nationals and the piano player and
stopped playing Let's get down and get on the mic,
isn't not I like to call my brother. So then

(01:06:59):
we're doing two verses. I'm embarrassed because we're doing two
verses of Let's get down after these dudes after they're
playing cold Trane, and I'm like, come on way. But
I guess that's my introduction of like um of telling
people that we are about to get together and and
um and do our farewell and like, you know, thank
for people, thank people for um it's support, and we

(01:07:22):
and we're gonna actually gonna do like we're gonna do
an instruments. We're gonna put out four for four songs,
and it's it's gonna be instrumental record, just instrumentals almost
like you know, Summer Madness and break stuff like that.
And then because we've never performed the last album, how
some music. Anyway, we're gonna get together and learn that

(01:07:42):
album and then give people like three new instrumentals, three
or four instrumental songs. That's the plan. And this is
the first place I said it. But yeah, y'all would
love to see y'all do Wild Child Lives Man. Yeah, yeah,

(01:08:03):
that's that started. That was our thing. Um, even when
we did that record, that's the record, when they said,
let's you do your side of the record and I'll
do mine. And even though I did that record, I
went back and god doing any saying, he bro you
gotta sing them on this part of the record. He
was like, of course, But I found out the reason
why he didn't read this is a funny thing. You're
gonna you're gonna dig this because I was always trying

(01:08:25):
to figure out, like what did I do with these guys,
you know, if they didn't want to record a record
with me? Because my dad came over, he was like,
where everybody out? I said, I didn't want to break
his heart. And my dad passed away about five years ago,
and I said, uh, I don't know, Dad. They just
decided they wanted to record their side of the record
on their own. So he was like, he said, are

(01:08:46):
you gonna be all right? So I just have to
make my dad feel good, I said, you know, because
he thought I was on my own and I should say,
like Mohammed Ali Records. So I'm like, Dad, I'm like,
I'm like Ali. I flow like a butterfly thing, like
a b I'm and my dad he started smiling when
I said that, because I just want to make him
feel But I honestly, I don't know what the hell
I was gonna do, but I figured it out. And

(01:09:07):
um so I asked him, I said, so many what
did I do to you? Man? Like? What did I do? Like,
I don't I don't really understand, like I understand what
what y'all did to me. I understand what did did
to me. It was just like, you know, we just
had regular band issues when you don't have enough money.
Every black band you don't have enough money. The problem
is money most of the time. So what happened was

(01:09:31):
I figured it out because they never told me. Every
time we did an album. When you heard strings on
the album, they cost forty thousand dollars dollars, okay, so
that's me. I would spend all the money in the protection.
I put the money on in the film, you know.

(01:09:56):
And so they didn't want to record me because there's
like he gonna spend all the money, like I got it,
But they never told me. I just figured it out. Look,
you need to watch Metallica some kind of monster, and
I want y'all that for y'all because you'll be you'll

(01:10:16):
be really shocked on how the smallest issue can cause
the biggest problems in a group. And then when the hindsight,
when you talk about it, it'll be like you remember
that time you stole my rich crackers and said that
you didn't and I saw it in your bag. That's
why ain't talk to you. You know, I want to

(01:10:40):
get you talk about Metallica. These I told Dwayne. I said,
I said, bro like Metallica. I said, when we come
on stage, I said, all, Mike is gonna be far right,
your Mic is gonna be far left, or you're gonna
be right and be gonna left. And Tim is gonna
be right in the middle. I said, we're gonna make
this ship like Metallica. We're gonna have a choir like

(01:11:01):
a sixteen people and a keyboard player to the side,
and they're gonna be singing backgrounds. We're gonna just be
playing these instrumentals. I said, it's gonna have to feel
like Metallica. So, you know, when we recorded some of
our albums, like Sons of Soul, Metallica was in it
was there too. They were U saw later with um

(01:11:22):
uh plan Yeah. So and so I was hanging out
with Metallica, like you know, all the times, and they
would play shows in New York. I would go hang
out with them. So we have a lot of a
lot of you know, on condo with Metallica and those
little petty things like you said, it's definitely we probably
have some of the most silliest reasons. You'll be shocked at, yeah,

(01:11:45):
at what little communication could do. And you know, I
will admit that, you know, me and a certain member
probably as close now as we were. You know, it's
weird that we did this operation for nineteen years almost
without communicating with each other. But you know, me and
people the same way we didn't really come for instamate

(01:12:06):
a little watch. You gotta communicate, you gotta communicate. I mean,
I'll see my brother last night and I just I
just said, bro, Look, it wasn't for you bringing all
them records and playing all those Ernie Eveley solos and
playing all those Larry Graham records and put me on
the Larry, I wouldn't be the person who I was today.

(01:12:27):
Something about getting that record deal and ship change and
start going backstage, and you'll be like, hello, hold on,
be back. You start everybody start getting new friends, and
all of a sudden you're like and then you all
of a sudden you like the five heart beats. You're
like five heart beats front center, right flash, it's normally
at the top. Wait. I got two more questions and

(01:12:54):
then I gotta go. But well, we kind of brought
one thing. You brought one thing, which was is did
you when you when when clear Fisher did the strings
for anniversary? Did you get to meet him? Were you
just sending the tapes and he sent it back? I
was with him every time he worked with me. What
else did he do besides the anniversary? He did a

(01:13:16):
song that we call that we have called on on
the on the revival album that we never put out.
It's called Sherry Love with Me, and it's ridiculous. Wait,
you have a you have an unused Claire Fisher song,
what the what on cassette? But I don't think we
can find the multi tapes. And if I could find it,
I'll send it to you. You can just freaking let

(01:13:40):
a clear Fisher song go unscathed and bro he he
like I met Claire even in the last So then
I did Claire that this song, Uh we were talking
about with t J Moses take me that's Claire too.
Wow to our listeners, Claire Fishers. Uh string arranger, um

(01:14:01):
all the print stuff that we love, asked Rufus. Yeah,
like switch uh look up reaching for Tomorrow. That that's
probably like one of my favorite Claire Fisher moments. And
and but you know he had to push me away
with the Jacksons, and he he really turned like a
lot of like black music and to really like lush,

(01:14:22):
lusher arrangements. Uh, Steve and I got to work with
uh Claire some Brent on the Elvis Costello record. Claire.
Actually the last thing that Claire did before he passed
away was really love. Like I know that he wrote
the string arrangements for D'Angelo, but his son finished and
executed it. Like at the time he was doing it,

(01:14:44):
he passed away. But that was the one of the
last things he worked on. The last thing I wanted
to ask you just in general, like in in your
in your cannon and your songwriting cannon. What's the what's
the fastest song that you wrote that was like popular
with us, Like, oh, I wrote that song in three minutes?

(01:15:04):
Mm hmmp with you. Probably Um, probably probably was the
Blues as far as it that was. It just wrote itself,
just kind of rolled itself. Yeah, okay, okay. And what
was the struggle song? What was the song that like
all of them? Um? Um, you really just like to fish.

(01:15:27):
I think the struggle songs it wasn't It wasn't a single,
but um, we just have this thing where our album
will be done and then the label would say, now
we need a single, right, okay, So that thing was
if I had no lotot um blues was that? But
the song that I had a problem with was coming

(01:15:50):
into the man of who I was. It was probably
um blind man what yeah, yeah, yeah, because blind man
was a song that I felt like it would have
been a voice like Bobby Blue Bland right, And I

(01:16:10):
was singing all those kiddy songs, you know, like no, no,
no no, and all of a sudden I had to
say the first lyric and that song was like look
it here, I'm still stand there. Yeah, that's the Teddy
Pendergrass line, you know, like you can't say looking here
with the voice I've been singing with with the albums
before that. So I wrote, I wrote it, and when

(01:16:31):
and when I got to the mic, I walked to
the mic and I was like, look it. I was
like hold on. I thought. I was like, hold on, ship,
that's that's just not so I was still, I still
back and I saw I looked at my shadow on
the floor, and I had a conversation and I was like,
you gotta you gotta pull from within, you gotta pull
all these other different energies and spirits from these people.

(01:16:52):
And that song I struggle with, but one after I
did leaving. In that song, I was sort of like
my sister start passed away. My sister got hit by
this car. My sister was a great blue singer and
she had a strong voice, like Millie Jackson and Aretha
and just I'm talking about. My sister could sing any

(01:17:12):
type of soul song and she was a parole officer.
She graduated from you know college, had degrees on a
lot of property. And until my sis, she was just
sing lout of the Al Green's version of I Can't
Get next to You like below it. When my sister
passed away, I felt like her bear just kind of
got into me. After that, I started singing better. I

(01:17:37):
started singing better after that. And that was after my
sister died. When I was in the hospital, uh singing
it never rains, damn Yeah. And then then we we
I went to the hospital and they pulled her off
the days we pulled off the machine. At that point,
they pulled her off the machine, and I went back
to the studio and I started recording that those songs.

(01:18:00):
But then that my life for singing it just after
that sort of changed. But I never really got comfortable
singing vocally until really the way I see it, until
the sixties album pretty much. Man, I was gonna ask
um on Instant Vintage, the hot Tech in the lodes,
how did y'all hook up? I thought it was so
dope that you reach out there, man, yeah, because I mean,

(01:18:23):
like I said, my hip hop thread goes deep, you
know what I mean, Like, and I just hit the
high tech. I was like, bro, I'm doing these interludes
and it be so sick. If I could drop three
a few high tech doing it's right in the middle
of everything, you know, because he was just ye'all just
always loved, you know, high tech. Because I could play
bass too, you know. I mean, all I ever mean

(01:18:44):
is is the beats man beats beats and and and
I can. I can go all day if somebody give
me a beat, and I'm like, I'm like more of
like a m C on the base. Like I could
just play baselines all day and I could come up
with the medaldy because it's and even in I was
in Trinidad when we did Uh Slow Wind album and
Tony's was over there. We this guy told me said, man,

(01:19:06):
you know in Africa, it's we all speak through drums,
right rhythm, we all speak through drums. Drums is are
It's our things. So drums and bass just singing to people.
And that's why with all these different music is really
you know, drums and bass and I feel like even
when I did still Ray, it's just really drums and
bass in keys, right, But it's the way those drums

(01:19:29):
sounds with. People always want to rhyme over room. I
can't find the multi tracks to get them to nobody.
So say you don't want to Ray Wiggins, I will
send you some tracks. Great please, dog ain't nothing for that.
The drum sets in them, bro, I got you. I'll

(01:19:49):
text you. I got you. Wait, it just hit me.
You know what. Um frontage just hit me to something
like a couple of years back, and I just got
trapped inside of this whole. I don't know if you
saw that playlist. I gave you a music Come on, Yes,
I feel I feel like I feel like that's I

(01:20:13):
feel like even more than Go Go. Liquor house music
is the under undiscovered Jim of R and B music,
like Sir Charles Jones and all like it was like downhill,
like it's the last place, it's the last place white
people ain't took over. Yeoh, I feel like you need

(01:20:36):
you need to have a thin line between liquor house
music and gospel courts. Yeah to me, let me, let
me send me the little Yes, I will oh god,
Marvin sees candy looking like it's all just people call
it blues. Yes, come on, come on like that Malaco

(01:20:56):
Records real cheap sounding karaoke R and B. But it's
my favorite ship of all. Are you talking? Are you
talking about like songs like the Bitch Get It All
and all them songs Get It All? Yes? Yes, yes,
yes yo yo yo bi yo my ex girlfriend parents,

(01:21:18):
I've been listening to that ship for like fifteen from yo,
I got a whole list of it. Yes, yo, I'll
be in the Yeah. They're gonna take that over too
pretty soon. These do that like all school hats. Yes.
So are you talking about? So you ever heard of?
Theotis the uh stand up in stand up dude played

(01:21:47):
in my sister's band, my sister blues band. Theotis Good
to our players. Has been on me since I was
like eight years old. Bro. Wait, there's a house moving
in Oakland as well. Man, that's the issue universe in
the Lanta now Yeah yeah, stand up in it? Yeah,

(01:22:09):
stand up The stand up man is my mom is
my my friend. He's the only guys his stepdaughters like
real a longtime fan of hours like good friend, my
like she. He came out, he came out to a
Little Brother show. He came out and was doing get Back.
He came out and kicked with us straight up. Yeah,
many but tim horns, those cheap horns, I can't not take.
But I'll be definitely there's a way, there's a way

(01:22:31):
to adje you twist to it. But it's just like
for me, it's the most But I mean, Frantie's right,
it's the last sort of ungentrified, the last ungentrified moving
to black music that we have. But then Raphael do it,
and it's gonna get gentrified right after that. I'll tell you,
I tell you, I'm gonna tell you who gonna Who's

(01:22:52):
gonna end up doing it first? I know, uh he
said a white artist. I said, I know. Michael was
next to be on Malico. Nope, it's gonna be Molly Cyrus. Dad.
You think you think he's gonna do this? Oh damn,
he gonna start singing about Jody. That's around big color,

(01:23:19):
noza energy. I want to thank you, thank you for
doing We've been begging for this episode for so long. Man,
thank you all in person. Hey, can I just ask
you as a fan, you I feel like you've just
done so much for us. Is there anything we could
do for you? I'm never asking what. I'm glad you,
everybody's everybody's I'll be around with this when this Tony

(01:23:43):
Projects project comes out, Like I'm gonna start bringing out
a couple of artists. What are you's seeing? Myself and
he's the artists. They're gonna be pretty much underground artists.
But I just feel like when that happens with the
platforms that you guys have, you guys are already doing
so much with the platforms, and all we need is
the platforms for people to be like we're going back. Absolutely,

(01:24:03):
that's it. When we come to town. Just buy tickets. Okay,
we got them, right, y'all? Okay they say, yes, there's
a t shirt off that says that nig It's gonna
buy tickets. I didn't make it, but we didn't, right, Well,

(01:24:24):
I keep my jointing. What you say right now, it's
you're right it is. Yes, Yeah, we saw Bruce picking
and broccoli. Still it killing it man. That's because we
keep the price under a hundred bucks. Yes, that's the kid.
You got generational wealth, So what helps us? Yes, this

(01:24:46):
is not Coachelling. I'm not charging a thousands of bucks
to get in some ship. Yo. Man, I want to
thank you and this has been amazing episode. This is
definitely two part episodes. I know it is UM A
big fan of yours and you know this is everything
I could ask for. And I'm really mind blowing how
many things we have in common. Like now now I'm

(01:25:07):
gonna listen to Larry Graham a whole another way, man,
but no, thank you for doing this show, bro. Like Larry,
Larry is the bible for us. And we come out.
We're thinking about playing today as our opening song. Dog
there you go, There you go, Rob fels A Deep,
ladies and gentlemen, thank you, guys, thank you, thank you.
Thanks for all the music. Much appreciate it. Thank you,

(01:25:28):
thank you too. Man. Thank you for seeing you again
for sure, for sure and sorry I got you fired
all right today talking to you for three hours. I
couldn't do that. I black. You're with the best, You're
with the best right here, you were your best hands
right right, she holds this together. Steve seems like a
long time electric lady. Uh, Steve probably worked on un

(01:25:49):
titled like I was. I was in the room when
that was when when g and and Ray were recording
that song up in See up in studio, see I'm
looking at you, like yeah, of course, and then so
you were you in the room and d was like
uh and went talking about he was like when the
cat was making this moaning noise, you was in the

(01:26:11):
room and de goos like, hey, Jimmy, and everybody was
like yeah, Jimmy, and I was like, hey you no,
goddamn Jimmie, that cat hungry. Yell always keep me it real, man.
We didn't. We had we had three real cheese sound,
which just all those extra baking that they put in it.

(01:26:34):
The cat was watching us eat way. You don't even
get it. You don't even get it. The amount of
bacon references I got for Steve, the fact that you
brought that up. Even on my audiobook which I just finished,
like fucking half hour ago, I credited Steve for bacon. Dude.

(01:26:59):
We said, being a studio and we would eat, we
would smoke, eat smoke, eat smoke. And Dan was like
Sod was like yeah, he would be like, way, uh,
I'm gonna eat someone on a healthy side from this
other restaurant. So we were just not Waverley. So I'm
like what you order here? Like, yeah, I'm ordered burger.
I'm like a burglar. But at the Waverley we would

(01:27:23):
go get like a grilled cheese and the bacon come
in it, right, he will say, and I get extra bacon.
I'm like extra bacon. The bacon is already killed in
that chin thing with bacon. But right now Baker the

(01:27:44):
Greatest Moment podcast. Yeah, but but but Ray but get
on titled all I remembers the baking the voodoo was
nothing but bacon fest. That's how we got it in
summer body eating bacon and nothing else. That was the
original title of the record. Actually, I've credited Steve Born
most albums with bacon because you know, like what spinaches

(01:28:10):
the Popeye? Oh boys, just like yo, I need I
need a break. You know it's so crazy about to
say most of the earthly people, don't you think y'all
don't even eat pork. I'm in shock over here, like
and YouTube Rafael Rafael Rafael, You you remember recording on

(01:28:32):
titled though you guys were standing in front of the console,
you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, and not not
on this, not on the engineer side on the other side,
like in between the console and the and the window
to the live room, and you guys were playing that.
You were on on bass and he was on guitar
or or no vice versa. I don't remember now, but yeah,

(01:28:52):
well I was good to our he was playing, he
was he was playing piano. Think you played bass hang
tr on that, yeah, okay, yeah, but you were standing
in front of the in front of the console. It
was like one of my first first gigs. I was like, whoa,
and then we ate. I remember the tape ran out

(01:29:13):
and he was like, y'all was going to change the
reel so we could finish. And I was like, just
just finished, don't don't just leave it like that and
just call it. And then the dad said untitled, and
I was like, just call it untitled. Oh, I was
like finished. Then I was like and I was like,
when you leave, I said, when I left, I said,
you just gotta scream at the end of the record.

(01:29:34):
You gotta scream. He's like, he said, yeah, we're gonna
do the video. We're gonna do the video. So I
told my boys, like, we did this song. I said,
it's good, but I like to Spanish joint the Best.
That was my favorite album. So I didn't think untitled
was a single, so they put it out. In the
video came out. My boy was like, hey, it's a
good thing. You ain't in the video. You only had
one part you could have did. Yeah, but if I

(01:29:59):
recalled it the time, y'all both had body around that time.
So uh and everybody's just everybody just say, yo. The
only way you think that song was popular because because
he was naked, and I was like, he couldn't he could?
I said, if it was wacky, couldn't have been naked exactly?
For Maxwell was naked with that rubber ducky in the

(01:30:20):
in the in the bathtub. That was it was core,
the luxury Coco curety. Yeah you can't. You gotta ask
some what thing to do that one naked? You are
so right? Yeah anyway, man, thank you. I appreciate it
long overdue man. Congratulations to everybody man on your success.

(01:30:41):
And wow, man, it's good doing that. S you look
now I'm looking on when as soon as he said it,
I was like, wow, we all have banking and coming. Yes, Bacon,
all right, So Fonticolo Bill, he's not here and Dr
Bacon this question of Supreme. We'll see you on the text.
Go around, Thank you Red, all right, see y'all. Hey,

(01:31:06):
this is Sugar Steve. Make sure you keep up with
us on Instagram at q l S. Let us know
what you think you should be next to sit down
with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. West
Supreme is a production of my heart Radio. For more

(01:31:29):
podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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