Robert Townsend Part 1

For 2024 Black History Month, QLS has some special programming. "This is the greatest episode ever," Questlove says during this two-part discussion with Hollywood revolutionary Robert Townsend. Part 1 includes his Chicago upbringing, gift for impersonations, and pursuit to become a working actor in New York. Robert touches on his ascent from minor roles in Cooley High and The Warriors to nearly becoming an SNL cast member. A focal point of Part 1 is Robert detailing how Townsend financed Hollywood Shuffle with a credit card and his word. This conversation with a true visionary is both funny and impactful.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question. Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Let's Go Kids.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Supremo Su su Supremo Role called Suprema su su Supremo Role,
Suprema Supremo Role, Suprema su Supremo Role.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
My team Suprema Yeah, ain't no hash Steppie Yeah, Robert
Townsend Yeah, ain't you got no weapon?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Suprema Supreme roll, Suprema Suprema Role.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
My name is Fante Yeah, and I'm feeling cool. Yeah,
I finally graduated, Yeah from Black Acting School.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Supreme Suprema Role, Suprema Su su Supremo roll call.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
My name is Sugar.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Back on the hash.

Speaker 5 (01:00):
Wait wait wait wait wait Yeah, did.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
I see you on mash because some brea s.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Brevo roll It's like ear Yeah, don't need no BIB Yeah.
Robert Townson Yeah, can I get one.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Rim Supremo rolls Upremo Supremo roll came.

Speaker 5 (01:28):
My name is Robert Yeah, I'm in town yeah and
getting down with this crew in town.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Up the host clown.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Supremo Suprema Supremo roll.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
So I messed up?

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah and.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah and someone tell me, yeah, where is unpaid bill?
Supremo roll call?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Signs up Breva supremo, Broun supremo, Roll.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Up, Supreme up roll, Sorry about that the wrong version
you keep taking two. Well you know I forgot that
Bill's not here, so I should have did it for
five people, but instead Wow. Yeah, so way too many references.
This is the pressure. I'm like, I want to put

(02:26):
the ball in the black and the beautiful.

Speaker 5 (02:28):
It was just too many, It was too much.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Okay, can we can we I'm right about the mash thing, right, yes.

Speaker 5 (02:36):
Yes, you are, yes, you are just checking because all right, so.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Can we just collectively have a meeting? Okay, okay, let's
go because we have a tendency.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
We're not gonna embarrass you.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, to sing people's songs and act out. I can't
promise you that's not gonna happen. I'm just making you know.
I feel moved to see the heart of the house
for love that brain drops But all right, is falling

(03:11):
on the table for or did you just fall off?

Speaker 4 (03:14):
And I'm so sober? I'm sorry, I'm excited.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
All right, all right, we have questions I've been wanting
to ask you since I was eight years old.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
You don't understand, like straight up, let me, let me
introduce our guests first, Yeah, we know, all right, So,
ladies and gentlemen, in case you don't know where you landed,
this is called Quest Love Supreme. I'm your host, Quest
Love and Team Supreme of course is strong fo how
are you brother? I'm with Robert Towns that's automatics. Let's

(03:43):
talk about him, Steve.

Speaker 5 (03:48):
Al right.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Look, ladies and gentlemen, look, I will just say that
maybe or maybe not, Emma Thompson household Times weren't that happy.
I will say that this gentleman dingle handedly alone probably
provided eighty five percent of all joy and happiness that
happened at I can't say my old address right because

(04:11):
there's somebody there's oh Stage Avenue in West Philadelphia. I've
I've probably, you know, probably second to coming to America.
I've never quoted a film more than our guest and
his debut movie as a director, Hollywood Shuffle. All of

(04:35):
his films have touched our lives. Fonte's looking at me
like if you just don't say his name. Lady and gentleman,
Robert Townsend is on West Love Supreme. Thank you for
coming on our show.

Speaker 5 (04:45):
Thank you guys for having me. Thank you. Thank you
so much.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, and we should also know Robin last night reminded
me forty two times she said, you're welcome, You're welcome,
You're welcome. Robin Feedee wants to you know up, yes.

Speaker 5 (05:00):
Yes, yes, because of my daughter Scott.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, so every twelve seconds, Robin wanted to come up
to let me know that, thank you, thank you and
all the writers, Robin congrassling, the writers getting the getting
their money. Yes. Real. So I'm at a loss for
words right now.

Speaker 5 (05:20):
Yeah, I'm thank you for having me. Just thank you
for having me, guys, because I wanted.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
To start crying on and I feel emotional. Come on, man,
you got a podcast to do. Let's go all together.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
You ain't direct line to like our childhoods man, and
like you know what I was saying in our memories, Yeah,
memories like you know HBO, like the Partners in Crime episodes,
Like dude, like that was an event, like that was
something like that.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Come on me and our family. We be on the floor,
Like I'm on the floor washing and like all of that.
Are you wiping your tears with the script?

Speaker 5 (05:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah, I'm sorry, Yeah, because he's right, I'm listening to
and I'm like, yeah, that's showing itself.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
That changed, yeh changed, that changed, That changed us.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
We had Patrice Russian on the show like a couple
of years ago, and like we talked to her about
you know, musical director, musical direction.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
Man.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
It was really just pioneering in so many ways and hilarious.
All right, let's get the initial stuff out the way.
Where were you born?

Speaker 5 (06:17):
I was born in Chicago, Chicago, Illinois, on the West
Side of Chicago.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Why do become interview Chicago people show? We had Sally Richards,
So why has Chicago been chosen as the epicenter of
comedy even for like sketch shows, for writers, for acting,
for comedy workshops? Chicago is where that starts? Is that

(06:45):
just an SNL thing where you know?

Speaker 5 (06:48):
As a kid, I just remember West Side of Chicago,
you know, black folks. We always been funny, funny, funny.
But then I started. I studied at Second City when
I was like fourteen, fifteen years old. I started.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
When did Second City start?

Speaker 5 (07:05):
It's been around since the sixties, And Second City was like,
a no, it's been around a long time. They had
because back then my teacher was Joe Forrestburg, but Dale
Close was like Jim Belushi and all those guys. Everybody
came out in that class. No, I wasn't in that class.

(07:27):
I wasn't in Dale's class. I was in the other class. Okay, yeah,
But I started at Second City. I started doing Emperor,
but I started in theater. I was like the youngest
member of x BAG Experimental Black Actors GIL and it
was like, you know, one of the actresses that came out,
Mary Alice, who was inspired. She came out of there,
and a guy named Felton Perry was one of the writers.

(07:48):
But my first mentor so I started when I was
fourteen fifteen, So that's when I started, and I did
my first movie. I was in Cooley High. I had
two lines. I was doing a play at x BAG
and Laurence Hilton Jacob's Michael Schultze director and Glenn Turman
came to see me in the show and I got
a few So that's when I started. And then I
was an extra in Mahogany with Billy Dan Dinah Ross.

(08:09):
So I've been like as a baby. I started, you know,
back in the game. But in terms of comedy, there
was always comedy going around. But then I discovered like
Rush Street had all the comedy clubs. I started performing,
like when I was sixteen doing stand up seventeen.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, what's your domestic situation into in your childhood? Your parents,
your siblings?

Speaker 5 (08:28):
You know, here's the thing. I have four there's four
of us. I have two sisters, one brother, and my
mother raised four kids on her own. My father wasn't there.
He was in our lives, but he was in and out.
Right were you the baby or I'm the second oldest? Oh?

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay? Like what are the aspirations of your life in
your childhood? Are you?

Speaker 5 (08:48):
I want to be a basketball player?

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (08:50):
I mean like I just went back to Chicago recently
and all my boys were still friends, but we were
all like my nickname back then was Left because I
got a sweet left hand jump shot. And so then
my other friend, his name was Ape because he had
long arms and we used to call him Ape. And
then you had Brown Chris he had he has two
sons that were in the NBA. Shannon that's his dad,

(09:15):
and so we were all like little kids loving basketball
and Dennis Olive. We were all like just kids and
we used to go.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
To the stock Stadius with the friends from your childhood.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, that is rare, and how does
that happen?

Speaker 5 (09:28):
Let me say this, through the years, we always stayed
in contact. And then let me say this. When you
have a dream as a kid on welfare on the
West Side of Chicago and you just want to do
something with your life, you need to have a circle
of people that believe in you. And back then, even
though my nickname was left, they were like, you know,

(09:49):
I said I could I got you know, I could
do voices and characters when I was really young. And
so they were like, left, you got something, you got
something left, And they always believed in me, and we
just stayed We just stayed in touch. And so and
then and Carl eight you know, his name is Carl Brentson.
He's the president of the West Side INNAACP. And so
we were always we always had like a righteous mindset.

(10:10):
We got to do something, we got to take action.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
You know.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
So, so you were just neighborhood friends or were you
connected through some well, I mean it was just basketball.
It was basketball. Everything was basketball, and we met on
like or no, no, I mean.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Right, well, no, I'm just meaning like some sort of
you could be church circles.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
Yeah, yeah, but it was basketball. We would play on
the basketball court and we played at all the different
tournaments and stuff. And then uh, I played in high
school on different teams. I went to three different high schools.
So I played at Weber Catholic, then Proserificational, and then
I graduated from Austin.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
For me, like oftentimes, especially with with with black success
and black stories, once you transition to another platform, the
temptation to try to take everyone with you, right, I
mean we can give an example like maybe an Alan
Iverson or whatever, like try to take everyone with you
is a hard thing to do, and sometimes you can't

(11:10):
go to these places and maintain what was beforehand. So
well it was for you know, oftentimes you're people might
see your success as their success, and.

Speaker 5 (11:24):
That's hard.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
So I'm really I'm really impressed that you still maintain
childhood friendships.

Speaker 5 (11:30):
Yeah yeah, no, but they were real friends. There were
a lot of people you know that are not in
my life that they are, you know, because there's certain
you know, like you have frenemies that are friends and
a part enemy and you just learn eventually to clean
house and you surround yourself with the right people, and
so I've been blessed.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
That's what's up. Did you know it was acting or
were you just a thing where like I'm a fan
of television and I can imitate these people, or how
do you know acting is what your true calling is?

Speaker 5 (11:59):
If so, let me give you the story. So I
am ten years old. I live on the West Side
of Chicago. Neighborhood is surrounded by gangs, the vice Lords,
the Executioners, the Disciples, the Senator six. And my mother
is afraid at ten that I'm going to get recruited
by one of the gangs. And so she goes, when
you get out of school, run straight in the house.

(12:21):
I run straight in the house. And all I do
is watch television. I watched so much TV they nicknamed
me TV Guide. Now like TV Guy was on the
night and I go, like, NBC they got a really
good lineup. And then at ABC, I think kind of cool.
I think so and so and so and so. And
then we were on welfare and it's like, when you're
on welfare, you can't you can't buy soap because it's

(12:42):
not food, it's food stamps. And so you always had
that problem and so I would always try to make
my mother laugh. And so then I discovered that God
had given me a gift to do the shows because
there was a time for the youngsters. There was a
time the television went off, right, and when television went off, you.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Know, we're all of aging here, you know, you don't
know about it, okay, And.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
Television went off, and so if you missed the show,
you missed a show. And so I discovered that I
could do every show on television. So back when I
was ten twelve, I could do voices and characters. And
like if I saw a movie from you know, French film,
I showed that the levision and I'd walk around the
house my brothers and sisters love the Wizard of Oz.

(13:28):
I would do all the characters I had never got
in my brains. If it Wolson for you what the
square root of Walton, I would do Alfred Hitchcock, good
evening they found the body in the alley Way. I
would do the Westerns. No Brandish fixed, you got to
be out of town by Shindim. I was so good.
I could do Lassie Timmy's in the Hood, Timmy. Here's

(14:02):
a story I got discovered in the fifth grade. There
was a teacher. His name was James Red tall, white dude,
you know, big nose, and he was just this beautiful
man and he wanted these little kids in the hood
to learn about Shakespeare. And so he gave us three
pages to read. And I just remember I got so
nervous because it was like me, thinks and thou and
thou and thus it was so yeah. And so I

(14:24):
went to the library and I stole all the Shakespeare
records because I wanted to get an a and I
listened to him on our stereo at home, like Richard
the Third, and I was like a horse, a horse,
my kingdom for a horse. All he wants is a horse.
And then like oh, othello, and then I listened to
all of them. And we had to read in class,
and that's how I got discovered, because we had to
read a scene from Oedipus, and I remember he was like,

(14:49):
Deborah Jenkins, you'll be Ophelia, Willie King, you'll be Oedipus,
and Robert Townsend, you'll be Teresius the Blind Prophet. Le
read and they read like kids. Deborah read like a
kid in the hood. It up pissed you will married.
I mother a kid if that father and I had
been seeing shit. You know, I was listening to the

(15:11):
Royal Shakespeare Company, so I was like their topiss. I
played off the rage upon night Sari to be creatures.
He knaught and so I went deep and the kids
was like, who your ass is crazy? But the teacher
after it was over, he was like, where did you
learn that? Come here, Robert Towns. Where did you learn that?
And I said, what is these records? You know they
was in the library, but not he in my house.
But that's how they do it in England at the

(15:32):
Royal Shakespeare Company. And that teacher took me under his wing.
And he was the one who was the first one
to say you could be somebody. And I was like
a little boy and I was like be somebody and
he was like, you could be somebody. So my journey
started there.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
He planned the seed in you.

Speaker 5 (15:47):
He planted the seed and he came, it's like to you,
I won my first award in nineteen sixty eight, so
it was like the you know, like I remember doing
the news for my mother when Martin Luther King got killed.
I was that, you know, she says, what happened again?
What happened again. At twelve forty two, Martin Luther King
was leaving and then Martin Luther King said, Mama, Martin
Luther King said, we have been to the mountaintop free

(16:07):
of blast, free of blass, and I would do all
the I was a look a little magical kid.

Speaker 4 (16:12):
And did you realize in that moment too, that, like
although the town, the amazing part was, yes, that you
found these records and that you also mimicked these records.
But the also amazing part was that you knew, unlike
all your other classmates, that there were these records at
the library. And to even do that because most kids
I didn't even know that.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
I'm just saying even that part to know.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
All right, so I'm a library kid. Same thing, not
necessarily games where I grew up in the crack eighties,
so really I wasn't It wasn't favorable for me to
go out. So thus I always stayed indoors, right, And
we had a gazillion records, So that's how I ingested
all the music. And I knew four blocks away on

(16:54):
Chestnut Street in Philly, there was a library and I
would just go there listen to all the records. Read
all the Rolling Stones, all the you know, music books
and whatnot. So I too would do that as well.
And like, the local library is one of my favorite spots.
So was that like a destination for you if you

(17:15):
weren't allowed to go out or no?

Speaker 5 (17:18):
You know, you know, The truth was that I don't know.
I was because of television. I was always curious about
stuff because it was kind of deep. Outside the house
was like pimps and gangs and drug dealers. And then
I'm watching Leave It to Beaver, and so then I've
got this world and I'm watching the Andy Griffiths show.
And then outside it's like if you don't have my money,

(17:39):
I'll knock your motherfucker. And I'm like, oh oh, And
then I was like, what is the reality. So when
I would go to the library, I would just look
through all the aisles at all the different things, and
I saw those Shakespeare records and I was like, oh,
that's interesting, and it was just I just remember listening
to it on our little stereo, and we had the
little stereo that had the blinking line yes that you know,

(18:01):
had all the disco music kind of things on it,
and everybody wanted to listen to the Temptations are Gladys
Night and stuff like that, And then I was like, no,
this is my homework and everybody's around the house listening
to me, listen to Othello, and I understood it.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
I'm just mad I didn't think of that as a kid.
I would have understood Shakespeare even more if I even
thought that there were albums that I could just listen
to instead of reading the work, like.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Even in Crazier Full Circle, because even in that like
twenty second scene in Hollywood Shuffle where you guys are
recreating was it Macbeth or or was that a fellow?

Speaker 5 (18:33):
It was King Lear.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
At that point that movie was such a revelation to
me that when you got to there half the time,
I was like, well, I don't know if we will
ever do that sort of thing. But then I thought
about it, like, wait, what would Black Shakespeare look like?
So that one scene in particular, like everything else, was
for humorous, yes, yes, you know, like and I took

(18:55):
it as humor. But that was like one of my
rare moments where I was like, hmmm, like I wonder
what that life would look like. In other words, like
opening the palette and expanding my brains accept the fact.

Speaker 5 (19:09):
That we can do anything.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
So yeah, that's that's a weird full circle moment because
even me watching Hollywood Shuffle based on your life experience,
that even planning to see for me like, oh we
can we could do much more than what we're doing now. Yes, sure, yes, sure, yeah.
So that's amazing. So what are your next steps? How
did you know about a second city? Uh?

Speaker 5 (19:33):
So I'm in theater. So I'm at x BAG and
then I went to the Lamont Zeno Theater on the
West side of Chicago.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
This is high school. Was this college years?

Speaker 5 (19:43):
This is high school? Okay, And so I find my
way to theater. And so then my first director, Paymun Rami,
who's in Chicago now, is a powerful brother. Him and
his wife, Masi Kwon Meyers. They were my first mentors.
And so when you're around actors and people, and he
was a casting director, so he cast me in Cooley High.

(20:03):
He did the extras casting for Mahogany. And so you're
constantly around like, oh, that's an agent over there. Oh
that's what you know. And you get this information and
when you're hungry, like you know, music for you, you're
a sponge and so I would just kind of, you know, like, okay,
you know what's an agent? Okay? Where acting class? Okay,
I'm going to take an acting class. I'm gonna take
another acting class. Okay, how do I do a movie?

(20:25):
If I could just say one line in the movie?
And so I was just hungry, hungry, and I wasn't
going to have anything stop me. I have to tell
you this story. I really wouldn't be in show business.
I went. I was going to college at Illinois State
University in normal Bloomington, and I was in the theater
department and I love theater. And then I'm down there

(20:49):
and on one side of the theater it's John Malkovich
and what's her name, Lorie Metcalf. They were on the
other those those are the actors. But for the black
actors of the school, we had like little small parts.
And so then I was like, oh, there's nothing. So
there was this one teacher who you know, cause I

(21:10):
was fascinated with New York, and I was like, what
are the actors like in New York? I mean, all
the best actors come out of New York. Even as
a kid, I was like, oh, James Earl Jones is
there Cecily Tyson is there, Sidney Poitier. They all come
out of New York. And I was asking her questions
about New York this one day and I was like, well,
tell me about New York. You know the actors in
New York. And she looked at me and she says,
stop asking about New York. You don't have what it

(21:32):
takes to make it in this industry. You won't make it.
You don't have it. Are you done? Are you through?

Speaker 1 (21:37):
An actual adults said that teacher?

Speaker 5 (21:39):
Yes, and the way she said it to me, but
let me explain something.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
No.

Speaker 5 (21:43):
She hit me so hard I left out of that
out of her office numb, and I was like, I'm
not going to make it. And I wondered the camp
is just like lost, and I was like, you know,
when an adult said something like that to you, it's
an adult going like, you don't have it. You're not
going to make it. And I was wondering in around
the campus like what the what? Oh man, I'm not
gonna make it. And then I had a moment, and

(22:06):
I had this moment where I go, she doesn't know me,
she doesn't know who I am, she doesn't know what
my talent is what's inside of me. And I shook
it off, and I said, I got to see for myself.
So I was so lost wondering the campus. I didn't
even know where I was. I was just like, I'm
not gonna make it my dreams. And then I stopped.
And when I shook it off, I looked up and
there was a sign that says transferred to exchange with

(22:30):
any student in the country Exchange program. And I was like,
I went in that office, and I want to exchange
with a student in New York. And when I have
a school in New York, we have a school in
New Jersey. I said, I'll take it. And I transferred
to Wayne Patterson College in Patterson, New Jersey, close enough,
and so I would get on a bus from Port
Authority and go to Manhattan on the weekends after I

(22:53):
left school. And you know, but that teacher, if I
saw this, this is seventy six, New York, New York,
New York, New York. And so that's when I met Denzel.
You know, it's like, but did you see that teacher again?
But see, here's the thing. If I saw that teacher,
I'd give her the biggest hug I'd give her the

(23:14):
biggest hug because like a lot of my friends, never
left Chicago. And she broke me down so hard that
day that I, you know, like the part of Robert Townsend.
It goes like, wait a minute, now, who am I?
What am I? And she at that point she I
called my mother right away. I said, I'm leaving the school.
I'm going to New York. I'm gonna be in New Jersey.

(23:36):
But I got to get out of here now. But
if she hadn't said that, I probably would have still
been there, and I wouldn't I wouldn't be Robert Townsend.
It was that one defining moment that she pushed me
so hard that I was like, what am I going
to do? And then I said, well, maybe I don't
have it? And I said, well, you know what, I'm
going to see for myself, So I'm going to bet

(23:57):
on me and I you know, and I was like,
And then I was in New York and I was
studying with Marlon Brandell's acting teacher, Stella Adler. So I
started studying with her. I started studying at the Negro
Ensemble Company.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
And how quickly did these things happen?

Speaker 5 (24:11):
Because well, once she said that to me. I was
only at USC for one semester. Once she said that
to me, I got out because I was in the
theater department and I was enjoying myself. But when she
had that conversation, because it's like, I'm a kid, and
so if somebody says that to you and you like,
you hurt my feeling. I felt it, and so then

(24:31):
I was like, I got to get out of here.
So then I was gone.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
But then the Stella Adler Park, like so once I got.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
To New York, it's kind of like, you know, I
say this to artists all the time, you got to
have a blueprint. And so I was like, Okay, to
get to the next level, I want to study with
the best. Stella Adler's Marlon Brandle one of my favorite actors.
I would watch all of his movies, you know, when
I was that little boy TV guide. So then I'm
studying with her and then I go, wait, but.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
How did you know to go to the top?

Speaker 5 (25:00):
How she take you? Like she took you? She took
me like like you.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Said, I need the best acting teacher ever? Where is she?

Speaker 5 (25:06):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (25:06):
How did you even?

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Well?

Speaker 5 (25:08):
So so let me say this, you know cause it's
kind of like if you're hungry for it, if you
really want it, then if you go like I really
want to be an actor. I want to be an actor.
You know, who's the best acting teacher? Then you know Marl,
you know, so like you know, a smiling brand though,
and so I'm like that guy, and so I just

(25:28):
started and then I you know, you ask actors in
New York who's the best acting teacher? Oh man, so on.
So it's like if you went on the street right
now and went on Hollywood Boulevard and he says, who
are the actually just then somebody would say, I found
a Chubbick is really good and so on. So fine
is good? So I asked. And then you got to
audition to get in. And so when I auditioned to
get in, I just did characters for you just and
I wasn't even thinking about doing characters today. Back then

(25:51):
when I was really in character boy mode where I
would perform, you know, I would go in you know,
I made a living doing dog food commercials because I
could do that in visible dog. They would bring me
in and they say, okay, a little a little chow,
wowow a big dog he's excited to see her, and

(26:13):
I made money being the dog.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
This is the greatest episode of all time. So anyway, sorry, Jimmy, jim.

Speaker 5 (26:22):
So anyway, when you say, when you say the whole
thing of that teacher, I would hug her because in
that moment, she challenged me so hard that I was like, no,
I gotta see for me. Rather than like, you're right,
I'm nothing, I was like no, no, no, no. And
I think a lot of people get squashed like that
all the time.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
And so that was your teacher. Imagine if some of
your family remember saying that to you. Yeah, yeah, I
know that is squash feeling.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
So Jesus, can you answer the question now, what's what's
the difference with the New York actor?

Speaker 1 (26:55):
What are they like?

Speaker 5 (26:56):
You know, what it is is that it's not a
New York actor. What it is is that actors from
all of the country that are really hungry go for
the dream. They don't sit in like I'm in little
small town in Iowa. They go like, I want it,
and they're all hungry, and so they all have that
same DNA of we want it. So like when you
see people, it's like a bunch of eagles all come

(27:17):
together and you've left all the pigeons, and so all
the eagles are standing there and it's like, hey, man,
you want this. I want this too. You want it too? Yeah,
I want it too. And so then all the eagles
are together like this. So when I you know, like
when I all the people that I met, like I remember,
you know when you talk about half the talent in Hollywood,
they all had that eagle eye. They weren't sleeping or
they were up, you know, like we want it? How

(27:38):
bad do you want? Like today, I'm coming to talk,
but I really you know, I like you and I'm
meeting you today and I'm like, oh this brother, Like
you're about something. So I don't do podcasts. You know
you're about something. And so when I see it's kind
of like when you talk about people's work, it's like
millions of people can hear this. You can plant see

(28:00):
like I've been in everybody's house, but I wasn't really
in your house, but I was in your house and
I was planning seeds of like okay, if you see
you know, like say a man me and Howard Hewett.
If I believe in God, I have faith and so
I said, let me plant the seed. Boom, it's a
variety show. Let me plant the seed. Hey, you know what,
I'm going to put a mixture of stuff in here. Okay,

(28:20):
I'm going to do the bowl of black to beautiful.
We've never seen black people dressed up, and I said,
you know, the trojan horse here is going to be
that we're going to see black people being funny and everything,
but we're going to see them in the best clothes
and the whole thing. And so there was always an agenda,
you know what I mean, Like everything is you know,
you're planning seeds, there's always an agenda behind it.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Do you want some tissues? Like, I'm sorry, I do
need some.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
So sorry, I'm having a real a lot because everything
you're saying is everything that we feel.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
But you articulated that.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
All right, let's get some tissues and we'll take a
break and then we'll come back down on Coutlov Supreme.
All right, So we are back at Questlove Supreme with
the Man with the Master Teacher, Robert Townsend. Okay, so
I have a theory about why New York because you

(29:14):
raised a question like what was it about New York actors?
Is it simply because in the acting world, like the
ma athletes or the snob actors are their their trial
by fire is the Broadway stage. Like, you know, I'm
an actor and I've done Broadway. So is that kind
of well not the good version of the scarlet letter,

(29:37):
but a badge of honor as opposed to just going
straight to Like what was it about La that didn't
call to you that New York was calling to you?

Speaker 5 (29:47):
Well, you know what it is is that New York
is about craft, like to get on stage. Like when
you're on stage, it's just you and the stage and
you don't get to go cut, you know know, Like
for me what I love when I do, you know,
perform or go in. I love theater like when I

(30:08):
was doing stand up and all of that. There's something
magical like so when I see the actors in New York,
they live it, they eat it, and where actors like
I work with some actors when I'm directing that you know,
like you got two takes, you got three takes, that
said Robert four takes, and the really great actors they go,
how many more you want? You want to do? Fifteen?

(30:28):
Let's go again, rob Let's go get and rob Let's
go again. Let's go again. Now I love those actors.
Now when I have actors, you have it, Robert, I
think you have it. And I was like, uh no,
I mean I fought with the you know, don't get
me started, because because because the thing is that you know,
so let me let me say this, you know, like, okay,
coming into this room today, all this love. So first,
let me just say thank you for all the love.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
You know.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
I create what I create because at the end of
the day, if we get a shot to create something special,
why not strive for a classic? Why not drive for
a hit? Why not strive? And it's not an ego thing,
but it's kind of like.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
When the full advantage of the opportunity that you have.

Speaker 5 (31:08):
That's all, you know. The thing for me is that
I love what I do. I really I love what
I do. So so part of the thing for me
is that I have to give it my all. And
I think with New York actors, you know, and it's
not all of them. There there's a select group that
they focus on the craft like nobody's business. And I

(31:28):
think it's like with comedians the same thing. There are
certain artists that just focus in it, like Richard Pryor
would focus as all the demons he had. He would
always raise that bar in terms of comedy. And so
I think anytime I, you know, I try to put
you know, put my heart and soul into my work,
that people would want to watch it again, people would
want to remember the lines.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
You know.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
My Soldier story was a good example of that, right,
because that was a lot of New York actors.

Speaker 5 (31:53):
Oh yeah, that was a c that was all of
you know. It's so funny because that was all of
us from New York coming together because uh, Denzel, you know,
we were talking, you know the other day, we were
we would be at the unemployment office together, and we
would be at the actors lounge together, Actors Equity Lounge,

(32:13):
and so we were all like, Norman, you know, Norman
dwisn uh you know, directed it. But Ruben Cannon cast it,
and he was like, I want the best purple. He
did the color purple as well, and he just wanted
the best actors that he thought for the part. Because
Hollywood would go, hey, we're going to cast so and
so in this part and so and so on the
casting could be all wrong and he was like, no, no, no,

(32:35):
I want David Allen Grad to play this part. Adolf
Caesar is going to play this part. Howards, What was
it like like before you asked that?

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Did he cast you in the color purple? Ruben Cannon
was next in the color purple?

Speaker 5 (32:50):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (32:50):
I was like, I mean I was a kid for six,
you know what I mean? But yeah, I had to
audition in front of him, and so I got cast
as a as an extra.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
I was a kid.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
They shot it in Calina, that's my home, and so
I went and auditioned and he was there and I
had to read what I wasn't reading. But the scene
they gave us was we had to act like you
were hungry and that you were angry. So it was like,
give me some jam, I'm hungry, like you were telling
the parent And I'm like six years old. And so
the girl I was going up against, she was nine,
and she was bigger, and she was like really angry.

(33:22):
I was like shit, she said hungry for real, you know,
like she played it up so fucking big.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
I was like, what the fuck?

Speaker 3 (33:29):
And so I came out the audition and again, I'm
six years old. I have no idea, what the fuck
any of this shit is? Like, no one has told
me anything, and so I came out and like, you know,
I'm thinking I failed.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
I'm like, Okay, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
What this is, but I feel like I did a
very bad job at it because I wasn't as animated
as her. But I got it, and I'm looking back
on it, I think what it was was that I
was so young and my fear was like kind of palpable.
So being one of Mister's kids, this big Danny Glove
just run around beating the shit out of everybody that
worked in my advantage because I was so young and

(34:02):
I was so small and actually scared. So I ended
up getting the part as an extra fook. But I
remember Ruven Cannon Maan, I had audition for him.

Speaker 5 (34:09):
Good Man, good man man.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
I know that your experiences in trying to get to
a particular platform led you to document and sort of
hone it into a script that will eventually become Hollywood Shuffle. Yes, sir,
can you talk about it? It's still relevant today, right.

(34:31):
Can you talk about the experiences you had as an
actor during the shuffle, the audition shuffle, the trying to
figure out where you fit in and all those things.

Speaker 5 (34:42):
Well, you know. So so back then, I'm living Keenan
Ivory WANs. Keenan moved to la first, and then Keenan says, hey, Rob,
these people are moving slow. I'm living in New York
at the time. How did you two meet? We were
both at the both comedians at the Improv in Manhattan.
We were auditioning. We were online to audition and we

(35:05):
were the only two brothers online. And Keenan was coming
home from Tuskegee because he was in college at Tuskegee,
and so we were auditioning and he was there that summer,
and then we were hanging out like, yeah, bro, I'm
trying to do it. I'm trying to do it too, man. Yeah,
you know. And then Keenan was like, he goes, I
got to do this for my family. And then he

(35:25):
took me into the Chelsea Projects one time and I
go in there and it's like it's a four bedroom
house and it's like all these kids and I see Marlon,
I see Sean, I see Kim and they're all like
these babies. And we used to walk from forty fifth
and ninth Avenue the improv to Pearl's Place on ninety
six on the East Side and walk and we would

(35:48):
be talking about our dreams and it's like, man, and
then one day I'm gonna be on the Tonight Show. Man,
We're gonna make movies, says I'm gonna get my family,
my whole family out of there. And it was like,
you know, So that's how we met. So we had
this thing about family and just success and winning.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Winky Dinky dogs. Right, man, So you made that first
movie shovel credit Cards.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yes, sir, ight, talk about it.

Speaker 5 (36:14):
Man, So let me explain the route there.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yes, yes, I want to know the route too.

Speaker 5 (36:18):
So I'm a young actor in New York. Now I'm
doing dog food commercials making money. I'm doing extra work.
I was in the Warriors, I was in the Whiz
as an extra, one of the citizens of Emerald City.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
You're gonna come back to that, you know.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
And so you know, I'm having these experiences and I'm
like an extra.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
And then do you have an agent? I hate to
interrupt you, I'm sorry, but you're dropping so many gyms.

Speaker 5 (36:44):
Do you have an agent?

Speaker 1 (36:44):
By this point?

Speaker 4 (36:45):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (36:45):
Yeah, Well, see in New York back then, you could
have many agents because whoever got you the job first,
whoever got you the job first, so you'd be registered
with this agent, that agent, that agent, that is agent,
and then whatever the job came in, whoever got to
you first, cause they didn't want to sign people like
you're signed exclusively, so they'd go like you could freelance.
And so you've got nine agents or seven, six of

(37:08):
the top people and commercial theater, film, television, whoever got
to you?

Speaker 1 (37:12):
What is it like showing up on the because you're
talking about like Mahogany and Cooley High and the Whiz
and all these things. What's going through your mind? Like
your first day on the set, like looking at are
you I remember talking to the actors?

Speaker 5 (37:25):
Or I just remember the first day, Like when you
talk about Mahogany, that was in Chicago. We were into
Cole and it was Billy d doing this speech and
then I was behind and then and that was in
another scene behind Diana Ross in the welfare line. She's
like I want to get my old man back. And
then but I just remember being out there and it's
like you talk about being it, you know, like like

(37:45):
like my impressionist skills kick in because I was watching
Billy d and it was like he was like I
was watching his mouth and then I was just studying him,
and it's like, you know, the polls say we're way behind.
You know, the polls say we're way behind. And then
it's like you're on my arm to fall off. You know.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
It was like the way he talked with his mouth,
and so I channel someone, how long does it take
before you actually nail them? Like, cause that's that's a
gift where you.

Speaker 5 (38:12):
It's not you know, you know, you know, it's so funny.
It's like I can watch and listen and then there's
a certain like if I really study, like I haven't
done it in years, but back then, you know, it's kind.

Speaker 6 (38:23):
Of like like Jeffrey Stoart there's a certain sound in
his voice or Bill Cosby, because you see there's a sound,
there's a sound, and so I would hear.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
Different things. And so when I watched, I was out
there in Nicole watching him, and I just remember that
whole speech, and I would just do it and then
when I got home, you know, I would do it
like James Earl Jones, you know, like you see the
daddy gotta beat the breadwind the claud the wayfaw and
the hip down frown.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Wait what is stopping you from being just black rich little?
Because that was the thing.

Speaker 5 (39:00):
I was a voice like you know, you know, here's
the thing I enjoyed. So let me say this. I've
been working on a one man show about my life
and I think it's it's.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's I did it.

Speaker 5 (39:13):
I did it in Berkeley, you know, because of Richard Pryor.
Because Richard Pryor broke away and went to Berkeley, and
my friend Don Reid was like, you know, Rob, there's
a theater up here in Berkeley. So I was working
the show up there, and then now I'm going to
take the show, you know, and workshopping in New York,
you know, at the Public Jesus Christ. So so I'm
in the middle of that. I will follow, Okay, you

(39:34):
know what I mean. So anyway, it's all the stories
about my life. But I was, you know, I'll just
say like this, God has blessed me with a lot
of talent, so I can write, I can direct, I
can produce, and I'm a performer. But when I was
doing the stand up, you know, when I was doing
all of that, then I started doing movies and I started,
you know, so then Hollywood Shuffle came out of that.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
How good is a living being in the extra in
the seventies in the eighties, like as far as survivals concerned,
like what is is the pay good enough for you
to say okay? Or do you also have to like, uh,
work at a bounclub or you know?

Speaker 5 (40:14):
Well, see I was, I was hustling. I was such
a hustler back then. I still am, but it was
like back then, I was like hustling really hard. So
I did my extra work. I did television commercials because
I would always say I could have dignity in sixty seconds,
so I I could, you know, like they're one of
my commercials. Somebody just put on social media and it

(40:34):
was like, this is Eddie. Eddie's trying to get a job.
Eddie's trying to get an education. He's working hard. That's
why we're working with Eddie, you know. And and I
was playing I was Eddie, you know, and so it's
just it's just somebody just posted it like two days agogo.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Like what are our expectations? He's working at McDonald's.

Speaker 5 (40:57):
I was, I was the original Calvin, So I did
TV commercials. I would do theater every now and then,
and like I said, my dog few commercials, and then
I was doing you know, I was I would do
the demos for for Bill Cosby for the Ford back then,
so I would They would say Bill Cosby's not coming in,
can you do the voice? And it's like there's something
about Ford motors that I like, you know, and I

(41:17):
would do all the voices. So I was like doing
different things and auditioning for the movies and then I
and I was auditioning for all that stuff. So yeah,
I was the extra work didn't pay. But I got
to tell you, Okay, this is one story is that
when I was doing the film called The Warriors Warriers
come out and playa I was in the Riffs. So

(41:40):
if you don't know the movie, there's a gang someming
in New York City. All the gangs come together and
then the leader of the gang, Cyrus, is shot, and
then they go who did it? The Warriors and the
whole movies about the Warriors trying to get home. So anyway,
I was in his gang, Cyrus's gang. So we were
in Central Park shooting for five days in Central Park

(42:01):
in the middle of the night. Now here's the thing.
They had like seven hundred and eight hundred people out there.
Now there was there were probably one hundred actors and
the rest were real gang members. Oh and so here's
how here's how I changed my life in one night.
So anyways, they've got all the gang members and everything,
and the prop department hands out chains, bottles, sticks and

(42:24):
all this stuff. And so then you heard the first
ad goes, when you hear the gunshot, then start running
and use your weapons. And people were getting hurt, you know,
people like where is the sag rep Where is the saga?
And I was seeing people get hurt, and the gang
members they was loving. It's like, I'm gonna hear somebody

(42:44):
else with this change next day, I want.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
To knock somebody out with this chain.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
And so then I was like, oh man, I don't
want to get hurt. So then this is where the
writer director Robert Townsend was born. Cyrus's body fell over there,
and so I was like, you know what, I'm gonna
be the one soldier that won't run. I'll just run
to the body and protect the body. So then that
way I won't get hit by nothing. So then they

(43:09):
go at camera, A camera B comera see and action
and everybody starts running chaos, and I run to the
body and I stay near the body, and I stand
in the body and I'm standing near the body, and
then all of a sudden, I hear over the speaker
the first a D goes the guy near the body,
stay near the body, and so then they go cut.

(43:31):
First AD runs over to me says, what's your name?
I go, Robert Townsend. He goes, the director love what
you did? You just got upgraded. Now I was supposed
to make sixty six dollars. Then I made two hundred
and sixty stretch back then that was rich. And so
then the other actors are coming over like why didn't
you run? Like everybody else is to run. And so
then something strange happened. Then all of a sudden, we

(43:53):
took a twenty minute break, and then they go, okay,
we're coming back. And then when I came back, I
was standing where I was standing, and then they had
everybody standing around me because the Walter Hill, the director
loved what I did. And then all of a sudden
he goes, oh, wait a minute, that's right. There would

(44:14):
be somebody that would stay with the body. Not everybody
would run away and then it looks like, you know,
it's not in the film, but it you know. But
I got stills from it because I pretended to be
my own business manager. I'm not sure Childlen would like
to get some stills. He was in the film and
they cut his part out, but he'd like to can
we come over. I'm gonna send a young black guy

(44:34):
over there to take a look at it, pretend to
be myself, you know. And so I went over and
I got photos of it. But that day I was like,
I changed the scene. I said, I changed the scene.
And so then it was like the seed of being
a director was planned because and he says, you get upgraded,
and then I was like upgraded and he was like, yeah,
you're gonna make and I was like a silent bit

(44:56):
and I was like and so then every time I
walked on the set, even though I was an extra
on like I was a director. What are we shooting today?
What's the first shot?

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Okay? I got to ask, since you're in New York
and you're sort of a degree of common well, that's
the thing, like, because you're also talking about stand up
which I think is a whole nother animal besides theater
acting or acting acting. At this point, is what's happening
at thirty rock in in your radar at all? With

(45:30):
Saturday Night Live? Like by this point, I'm assuming it's
the late seventies early eighties, Like, yeah, you know that
Saturday Night Live is a thing.

Speaker 5 (45:38):
And I auditioned for Saturday Night Live?

Speaker 1 (45:40):
What year?

Speaker 5 (45:41):
So you don't know the history, Okay, So here's the history.
I am at the improvisation and back then, Jay Lennol's
the host. You got Billy Crystal, you got Rodney danger Phield,
you got Robin Williams. Everybody's there, and I'm one of
the few brothers there. And I do my characters and
still Friedman, who just recently passed. She got the club

(46:03):
from Bud Freeman in the divorce and so she runs
the club and I am doing my stand up and
doing it. So Saturday Night Live is looking for somebody
to be on the show, and so I put together
all my characters and they go, you got to have
an audition. And I go into the audition and I'm
just like like today you're you're feeling my characters and

(46:24):
what I do. But then you know, like I'm a kid,
and I'm like po po. And so I get done
with the audition and I'm like, I think I smoked it.
I think I really smoked it. And so then they go,
you didn't get it. My agent calls and says, you
didn't get it. I said, but you know, I said,
it felt good in my spirit. I felt like I

(46:46):
was doing it. And they go like, well, they're going
to go with this guy named Eddie Murphy, and so
Keenan knows him from Long Island and from Roosevelt Island,
and he goes, you know, like, Eddie's really good. And
I said, oh, okay, okay, okay, I said, I guess.
So then cut to a book comes out about Saturday

(47:06):
Night Live and so Gene Dominion or I think her
name is, she's.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
So she.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
I think she wrote a book or something. So then
I started seeing all this stuff on social media like
Rabbert Town's supposed to be on Saturday Live, Robert Town's
supposed to be he lost out to Eddie Murphy. And
I was like, what what what? What is this end
of the book. I guess I really did give a
great audition, and they were there was a big war
in the room because they were like, no, he can

(47:35):
do the voices and the characters and dah da da
da da da dah you know, but I mean, here's
the thing.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Only be one.

Speaker 5 (47:39):
No, we can only pick one.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
We can only pick one.

Speaker 5 (47:41):
So so so so in the book it came out
that that's really that that I was up for it.
And then in the ninth hour, I guess this guy
Neil said no we should go. I mean, but here's
the everything worked out. But it was just, you know,
like how you have something and you go like, I
think I really did good in there. And then later
on when the book came out, they says like they
were debating on this new comedian named Robert Townsend.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
So you found out how close you would have came. Yeah,
that's crazy, all right, So I totally interrupted your story
from hallewid shuffle yes, making making that.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
Now what's one?

Speaker 1 (48:12):
I was like, what's the straw? What's the straw that
breaks the camel's back that leads to all right, I
gotta do this? Is this a string of close but
no cigar like lost rolls.

Speaker 5 (48:23):
Or that sort of thing, or no, it is the
day I have the uh, the worst audition of my life.
And so there is a director from England. He's doing
a movie about pimps and hustlers. And so I go
into audition and uh, I'm depressed already. And so anyway

(48:47):
he humiliates me. He goes, no, no, no, no, you
get out of the cadillac. He's a bad mofo. You
know you sewonda. I know you're holding out on me
how And then I want you to say b uch
be oach be and uh do it again this time
and this time you stick your ass out? Can you
stick your ass out? You black guys have big asses.

(49:09):
Can you move your big ass around? You know? Okay, okay,
you're me to do it. Okay, hold your cock? Do
you call?

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Do you say dick? Cock cock dick?

Speaker 5 (49:17):
Hold your cock? Answer Robert, this is real?

Speaker 1 (49:20):
And so then what is this director? Director? Before?

Speaker 5 (49:24):
I didn't I didn't know. I was just young. So anyway,
I finished the audition and I'm outside the room and I'm,
you know, like you're it's like you're a cell out
at that point. You just want the job and you're
selling your soul and I and I had sold my
because I was like, you know, would you know, would
you like see a dick adjustment? You know, anything you
can I could do differently? You know. I was like selling,

(49:44):
and he was like, no, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. No, no, no,
don't apologize. Don't apologize, don't apologize. And so I walk
out and the door is cracked open and I can
hear him talking and he goes, he's all wrong, he's
all wrong. I I need a nigga wow. And he's
just screaming and so and so I leave and I'm like, damn,

(50:11):
that's what they think of me. Damn. So then I
go to Keenan's house and you know, and uh, Keenan
sees a look on my face. And you know, Keenan
Keenan because he has ten brothers and sisters. He would
always cook and he could cook his butt off. So
keen is in there cooking and he goes and he
goes cockballs and I was like so mad. I was like, Keenan, this,

(50:36):
We're gonna die doing this bullshit. Man. I said, fuck this, man,
we gotta do something. And then that thing came out
of my spirit and I was like, we got to
make our own movies.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
And what year is this in which you declare that
this is uh eighty.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
Three. Wow, this is eighty three, and so Keene goes, Rob,
you never directed anything, never made a short film. You know,
you're talking about making a movie. And I was like,
if we don't do this, we're gonna die. We'll figure
it out. Let's make a movie. And I had done
you know, I was making money on my dogful commercials,
so I'd make a lot of money. And I had
just done a soldier story with Denzel and so I

(51:14):
had like sixty thousand dollars saved in the bank. And
I was like, you know, and everybody was like, you know,
you're gonna get a Porsche, You'll get a Jag. What
you gonna do with that money? And I was like,
let's make a movie. And it was like, but you
never did it before, And I said, that doesn't it
doesn't look hard. I've been on enough sets I could
do we could do this, we could do this. And
I basically taught myself how to make a film, and

(51:35):
we everything we did. The film was shot in twelve days.
The whole film twelve of the hardest days of my life.
I'm co writing with Keene.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
I mean, all the things from soup and nuts, like, so.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
I have sixty thousand in the bank, right, And so
then I go, let's just make Keenan and I, you know,
we started writing and we're like, lit's is make a
movie about our lives, and like people say, write what
you know, let's just start writing. It's like, let's do
that audition, let's do that part. Okay, hey you know,
and you know what, and let's show them what we
who we are. So I says I want to always
play a detective and he goes, yeah, we could play

(52:12):
a detective and then I could play the bad guy.
Why don't we call him Jerry Dude, that'll be perfect.
So then I'll be Sam a'ce like Humphrey Bogard wants
in the movies and Hmry Boguard, I'm Sam Ace and
I'll be cool like saying, and we do it in
black and white, yeah yeaheah yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
And then it's like there's no point and what you're
just like we're in over our heads. Who we kidding?

Speaker 5 (52:33):
Like you know, because because you know, I call it
the salami theory. A salami is a piece of meat
like this, and you just cut off one little piece
one little piece, and so I just knew to cut
off one little piece at a time. I wasn't trying
to go like ah. I was like, okay, this is
how much I have for my rent and my gas
and my car. We can't touch that, so we don't

(52:55):
take everything else and put it on the table. So
then how much does it cost to make to catering?
We could do pasta, we could do chicken, We could
do so and so on and get it.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
You know, da da da da.

Speaker 5 (53:05):
We could get the pastries and blah blah blah blah blah.
So craft service taken care of Hey. Back then, you
could rent the camera on a Thursday, say you're gonna
shoot for one day, and then you go like I
missed the deadline. I'll bring it back on Monday. So
then you shoot for your whole weekend, and then you
shot with short ends. So I called Norman Jewison from

(53:27):
a Soldier story and Ron Swore, the producer, and I said,
I'm gonna make a movie. Can I have the leftover
film from a soldier store? And he goes, you know,
they call me Bob, Bobby, take it all, Bobby, take
it all, take it all. So then I get the
leftover film. And for those of you don't know short ends, okay,
a short end. So the concept of short ends, for
those of you that understand film, is that a magazine

(53:49):
to shoot to load on the old school cameras was
ten minutes long. If the scene is seven minutes, you
have three minutes of them left over. You can't do
the whole take again, so you just have three minutes
to go get another mag so that three minutes of film.
Nobody can really shoot anything with three minutes, I go
give it to me. So if I've got to do
one scene and go like sometimes I only had like

(54:10):
a minute of film and I just say just say
winki nicky dog, and it's like wiki, dicky Dog. We
got it. It is rolled out. Okay, let's go moving
on and so reload, reload, reload, And so it would
just be going that fast and that quick and short
end short ends we couldn't afford the high editing places.
So Keenan is always like, this is where we got
into that brain thing. Because Keenan was like, he says, Rob,

(54:32):
where do they edit pornos at? Because if we go
to a porno place, we can really edit over there
and so they said, I hear in Chadsworth they got
porno places. So we went there initially, what got a
deal to edit porno? It's me and sixteen porn editors.
And I had never heard anybody. I had never heard
anybody direct porn. So then you hear like, You're like,
I'm walking down the hall waiting on my cut, and

(54:54):
then I can look in other people's room. I look
in the room and then you see the editor there
and he are cigarette and he's editing, and he's doing
the whole thing. And you can hear the extor's voice.
Put your leg down, put your leg down, enjoy it,
enjoy it. Put your head back, put your head back,
put your leg down, put your head back. Look and
I'm like, and they're just yeah, cockballs, right, And so

(55:14):
the actors, you know, my whole thing was, look, I'm
gonna make this movie and I'm gonna take you through
boot camp because I started in theater when I was
a kid. So I said, we're gonna do acting exercises
you do and we did. We actor exercises, warm ups
and all of that, rehearsing, rehearsing.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Wait, how did you even rally the Troops. Everybody wasn't
a Marie Johnson sort of established.

Speaker 5 (55:38):
No, nobody was established.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
I've seen her on extras and no, not. The first
time I've ever seen her was Hollywood Shuffle.

Speaker 5 (55:45):
I mean she had done little things, but not really
like popping.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Okay, but even like John Witherspoon, and you.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
Know John hadn't really John had done stuff, but it
was you know, it was like there was a time
when it was like the Black Exploitation, which was not exploitation,
it was just movies where we with the leads. You
had that period with Melvin Van Peebles and all of
them's and Michael Schultz and Cooley High and then there
was like a little bit of pause where there were
no movies like where we were. And then Spike was

(56:12):
in New York doing She's Got to Have It, while
I was in La working on Hollywood Shuffle. Okay, So
that was that time, and so there were actors that
were working, but the work at work wasn't consistent. So
then the thing for me was to say, look, I
don't have any money to pay you, but when you're
gonna have a great time, we're gonna make a movie.
We're gonna make history, you know, and we're kicking over

(56:35):
here at the Craft Services. That was right, That was right.
And so they were like, he's gonna feed us, and
he's gonna do this and so and I will have
respect for your time. I will all have day jobs, right,
all have day jobs. And so we shoot on the weekends.
So I will get you in and get you out.
And so the one thing I learned early on was
I know how to plan, and so I was I

(56:57):
did the call sheets, and I knew we had to
be invisible so that people wouldn't break shut us down.
So I go, We're gonna shoot at this house, but
park three blocks away and here's where you can park,
and then walk over. And hey, don't hang out in
front of the house, hang in the back. Please be quiet,
so that we could shoot, shoot, shoot, and then we're gone.
And then by the time we shot all of our
outdoor stuff like the Black Acting School, Sunday morning. Sunday morning,

(57:21):
people met at my house at five o'clock. We went
to Nicholas Canyon, Nichols Canyon and laid everything out.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Jumped into the mountain.

Speaker 5 (57:28):
Yeah where we go, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
So and so by the time, well, what about like
the beauty shop where Amerby Johnson worked at.

Speaker 5 (57:39):
Like that was in We made a deal where we said, hey,
we will pay one hundred dollars plus clean up, you know,
for a couple of weeks if you let us shoot.
And that was like on Crenshaw. So we just you know,
for the movie theater.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 5 (57:53):
The movie theater was the old Baldwin Theater that's not
there anymore, and it was owned by these two brothers
and basically we just said, you know, hey, we don't
have a lot of money to pay you, you know,
but we'll clean up. We'll mop the floors. And I
think I mopped that theater for about a couple of
weeks after it was done. And they said, hey, you

(58:14):
can shoot, but you got to be out before the
movie starts at eleven o'clock.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
It was an active movie theater, and you guys would
shoot on the off hours.

Speaker 5 (58:22):
What we shot before the movie started, like back then
the morning in the morning. We shot in the morning
so we'd get there. I think we got there like
a four o'clock set up, started shooting. We had to
wrap out by ten thirty and then the movie started
at eleven.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Dude, the same way that The Disaster Artist was made
about the room. Oh yeah, ye, I need a movie
made about how this movie got made. First met a
movie about making a movie about a movie about someone
that didn't get to make movies. So continue.

Speaker 5 (58:53):
So everybody that I had ever auditioned against, you know,
because the other thing is that you go like, oh
that guy is really a good actor, or oh I've
seen her and stuff before, she's really good. And so
everybody I ever auditioned again and said, Hey, I'm trying
to do this movie. Do you mind being in the
movie with me? And they were like, sure, have you
ever directed us? Says no, you know, I said, but
they knew coming out of the theater. I knew what

(59:13):
I was talking about because I had been in theater.
So everybody said yes, and and I said, you know,
I won't take my money first. Your money will be
the first money. As soon as the money comes in,
you're you will get paid first. And so that was
the best day of it.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
I made a spect deal like if this goes to
the theater and makes money and whatnot.

Speaker 5 (59:33):
There was no deal. It was my word. It was
my word because I we didn't have a lawyer or anything.
So it was just my word, like I go, you
have my word if there's nothing on paper, you know,
so so so basically, so here's here's the deal. So
that was the happiest day of my life because when
the film is done, I'm just going to jump ahead

(59:54):
a little bit and come back. But when the film
is done, I say to the Samuel Gowan Company, Sam
Gohan says, I love this, I want to distribute it.
And so then I say, hey, can I get my
check like now? And he goes like, well, you know
why you like you need it? He says, I said, well,
I charged the rest of the movie on credit cards.
And he was like, you charge your film on credit cards?
And I was like yeah. And so then I go

(01:00:14):
it's like forty thousand dollars and I need that money
like now. And he was like you did, and he says,
this is the best story ever. And I told him,
I said, hey, I couldn't pay for you know, food,
but I could charge it. I said, I couldn't put
you know. So I went through how I did all this,
the charging. So then he goes, he goes, we'll do
that and we'll take care everything. I said but the
first thing is that I got to pay all these

(01:00:35):
actors because I said, I told him, and so he says, okay,
he says, how soon do you want to do it?
We're going to sign a deal. And I said, how
soon can you do it? And he goes, you know,
it's it's Thursday. He says, it's going to take me
some time to get it together for Friday. I said,
can we do it Sunday at my house? And so
Sunday at my house. I was living on Orange Drive

(01:00:56):
and right off a mail Rose and I said, tall,
just meet meet at my house at this time. The
accountant from the Golden Company is going to be there.
I have a one bedroom. You'll meet, you'll sign your
contract in the bedroom. You'll wait in the living room.
I have drinks and food and everything. And they got
their checks before I got mine, and they all did
it and came in my bedroom and they signed their
contracts and that was the happiest day, you know, my life.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Yeah, what act specific we want to ask you about?
Loudi Washington, Yes, sir, what dogs we played?

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Don Michael Jackson's.

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
That did Gregory right, He's he's just one of them.

Speaker 5 (01:01:39):
Actors that Lidy showed up, you know, because there were
certain people that uh, Jackie Brown was the casting director,
because there were certain people that we knew and people
that we didn't know, and Loudy showed up and just
and and here's the thing. Uh I worked at a
place called Yankee Doodle Dandy in Chicago and Keenan worked
at McDonald's in New York, and so we both combined

(01:02:01):
our experiences and so Ludi was one of the cats
that we they we used to work with.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
It was like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whose idea was
it about hoe cakes? Because the only person I ever
heard mentioned hoe cakes was James Brown on Live of
the Power Volume three where he talks about.

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
That was John Weatherspoon. Spoon was improvising Spoon. Here's the
thing again, when you ask these people say hey, I'm
going to do a movie and you haven't done a
movie before, and they were like, what the hell are you?
Who do you? You know? And so he was like, man,
whatever you want me to do. And John Weatherspoon was like,
he would just give you the world. And so when

(01:02:39):
I said, okay, this is a flashback now, he's down
and out and so and so on and so on
and so then and John just started going off and
I had never heard Hoe Cakes either, and I just
thought it was just brilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
At that point, did you know who Melvin Van Peeples
was and that that was his exact experience making Sweet Sweetbacks? Badass?

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
You know, I didn't know anything because I you know,
I kind of knew some directors, but I didn't know
because I wasn't like I'm going to be an independent filmmaker.
I was just so fed up that I just go,
I'm not going to complain. I never complained. It's like,
let me just do something about it. Let's take action.
So then later on I discovered who he was in

(01:03:21):
his films, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Probably the most established person of that ensembles maybe Patrese Russian,
who by then was a platinum selling yes artist. So
how did you get her involved in the scoring of
the film and all that stuff?

Speaker 5 (01:03:37):
Well, you know what it was was that because I
love movies, I know that music is really important, and
so I was looking for different people and then sending
stuff to different people's agents, you know, because even though
we were small, it was like it's a small film.
But you know, at that point we had something in
the can that people could look at. So her agent

(01:04:02):
reached out and sent us a thing her real because
she had never really composed. She had done you know, music,
but then it's like, you know how people go like
you know, and even Sam going, you know, they were
like and like, wait, you know you got an artist.
Maybe they can't compose.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Maybe they you know what I mean, are two different skills.

Speaker 5 (01:04:19):
They have, like songwriter versus a So so I met
with her and she was like, I'd love to do it,
and you know, it's just kind of like for me,
there aren't a whole back then. They might be a
little bit more now, but there weren't a lot of
black women composers or black women musical directors. So when

(01:04:44):
she said, hey, I want to do it, you know
I knew her music, but then I saw her passion
to like, I can give you some music underneath here,
and I can do this, and I can do this.
And then when I did Partners in Crime, I said,
you could be my musical director and come up, you know,
it could be the play ons, playoffs and so and
then she went on to do the you know, the
Emmys and every thing. So you know, it's just like,
but it's just seeing it, just seeing it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
So what's is there a moment of for you, like
like completion? Is it after the first screening of it
at whatever? I don't know if you guys did a
premiere or not. Is it when Eddie Murphy hears about
this and rents out the theater to see it? Like,

(01:05:24):
at what point do you realize that, holy shit, this
is going to be a thing.

Speaker 5 (01:05:31):
You know? Let me say this. When we were putting
it together, editing and doing the whole thing, you know,
Keenan and I, it made us laugh. We don't it's
like if we really laugh, like on this Jerry Curl stuff.
We were laughing and it was just us right laughing,
having a good time. So I wasn't really like everyone's

(01:05:52):
gonna love this. It really doesn't.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:05:54):
There's a part that you want to be loved and
then there's another part like I just want to do
what makes me happy. I just period, And I think
we were being true to that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
Okay, QLs fam this is where we're stopping part one.

Speaker 5 (01:06:09):
And I know you heard a mirror.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
Say it during the episode, but I have got to
reiterate this yere episode is top ten Quest Loft Supreme
episodes of all time. Okay, and you know every year
Quest Love Supreme celebrates Black History Month.

Speaker 5 (01:06:23):
You know I do it every day.

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
But anyway, Robert Townsend is Black history, which means what
class He's American history. So make sure you come back
for part two next week or check out the podcast.
In the second part of this conversation, he speaks about
meteor Man and his talent and now Emmy Award winning daughters.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Guy has so much more.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
Okay, can y'all tell I really love this conversation.

Speaker 5 (01:06:47):
Make sure you come back.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
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