Robert Townsend Part 2

Here is part 2 from one of the greatest Questlove Supreme conversations ever. Robert Townsend speaks about the passion and purpose that went into making The Five Heartbeats. He details directing Eddie Murphy Raw and nearly getting an X-rating. Robert also discusses why the world needed Meteor Man and recalls coaching a shy Beyoncé for Carmen: A Hip Hop Opera. This interview runs deep with love, wisdom, and comedy.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
What Up, y'all, It's Laiah and we are back with
part two of our interview with the incredible, incomparable, trail
blazing Robert Townsend. Y'all know, this conversation is everything I
love about Quest Love Supreme. It's funny, informative, and life
so heartfelt. Last week, Robert spoke about his roads to
comedy and acting as he lighted us all.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
With a bunch of impersonations.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
He spoke about working on The Warriors, the movie y'all,
nearly joining SNL, and a deep dive into how he
made Hollywood shuffle with a dream and a credit card.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
So now we're back for part two.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Join us as we celebrate Black History Month with an
American treasure Robert Townsend. Part two taped in studio at
iHeart Hollywood. Enjoy y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Once the success of the film brings you to this platform,
what's your internal feelings? Because oftentimes when person has like
that type of success, out the box, I mean we
could say this is the illmatic nod situation or whatever,
like the follow up getting over the mountain, Like in
your mind, what are you envisioning your next step to be.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
You know what's funny is that I've always known exactly
what I want to do, and then it's just that
when you like, after Hollywood Shuffle, I was being offered
everything in the universe, every project, every script, every da
da da dad.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
What was being offered to you?

Speaker 4 (01:46):
It was all kinds of bad comedies. It was like
a lot of bad stuff that I wouldn't want to do.
And so I was like, you know when people go like,
well this, you haven't made a lot of films. This
is funny, and then it's like, no, it's not funny.
And you're dealing with TV Guide because I grew up
on television, so there's a certain I have my money

(02:06):
to them. Yeah, And so I was being offered everything,
but there was nothing that spoke to me. And the
one story that I wanted to do when I was
a kid in Chicago in nineteen sixty eight, Herb Kent
the Cool Gent gets on the radio and says the
Temptations are breaking up and David Ruffin is leaving the group,
and that was my favorite group, and so.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
I was like, what what happened? This is wrong? Blah
blah blah.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
And so then that kind of stayed in my head.
And so my thing was, you know, I told Keena
and I said, we could do a story. I wasn't,
you know, arrogant enough to say we could get the
temptation story. I said, let's let's make our own movie.
But I want to know what happened. I want to
know what happened to that singing group? Why did they
break up? You know, because I was devastated as a kid.
I just remember looking at the radio and I was like, going, what,

(02:54):
why did he's leaving?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
What?

Speaker 5 (02:55):
You know?

Speaker 4 (02:56):
And then that took me on the journey for the
next movie. But all the stuff that they were offering me,
there was nothing that I was really like, you know,
with The.

Speaker 6 (03:03):
Five Heartbeats you at the end credits you mentioned the Dells. Yes,
how involved were they in, you know, with making a
movie with you? And how much of the story is
from their personal kind of experience.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
So so let me give you the backstory behind the film.
I did a documentary on it. It's called Making the Heartbeats.
So the whole the whole thing that I would say
is that initially I wanted David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks
to be the technical advisors, and so I had reached
out to them and David he was going through his

(03:38):
drug thing. He was he was struggling, and so I
went to meet with him, and you know, he was
strung out a little bit. And Keenan and I we said, hey,
once the film gets green lit, we're gonna put him
in rehab.

Speaker 7 (03:48):
We'll just pay for it to just take care of him,
and blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
So that's our that was our plan because I told
Keenan man, David doesn't look good and he was doing
that snorting and all that, and I could just tell.
And so we were gonna, you know, uh, take care,
you know, put you know, put them in rehab. So anyway,
the studio Joe Roth, finally green lights the movie and
so I go, hey, I got David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks.

(04:14):
And then he goes no, And I said, why not?
He says, because everybody's going to think it's the Motown
story and you got that big red character, and so
they're gonna say, oh, the Temptations, and you're gonna get
lawsuits up the wazoo because people are going to say, oh,
this is the Motown story because you got these two
as your technical advisors.

Speaker 7 (04:33):
And so then at that point I had to say
no to them, which broke my heart. And then.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
They were saying, who else would you want to be
technical advisors? And then that's when the Dells, you know,
I said, the Dells, and then the Dells.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
You knew, Marvin Jr.

Speaker 7 (04:51):
That's crazy, Oh.

Speaker 8 (04:53):
My god, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yo, man, Like I was born, So I wasn't born
in a Dell's concert, but my mom like, damn near
on the eighth ninth month. But I started kicking at
a Dell's concert And are you serious? Yeah, yeah, yeah
I was. I was in the moon but yeah, I
mean I grew up like I grew up in the

(05:16):
Charles Stephanie period of the dell So like how sweet
and funk being all. But yeah, Marvin Junior like to
me even knowing, like the briefly, like my dad knew
Teddy Pentagrads whatever, Like Teddy would even say like that's
his north start, Like.

Speaker 7 (05:32):
What was it? What was it?

Speaker 5 (05:34):
Like?

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Just dealing with it because the world does not know
about the Dells and how.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
So let me so the Dell's, you know, my favorite
singing group. People know, Oh what a Night is one
of their big, big, big songs, and Marvin singing the
long note, and at first they got pushed back from
that record because they go, this record is too long,
but the DJs eventually loved it because they could take

(05:59):
a break and people.

Speaker 7 (06:00):
Love that long note and then the whole thing.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
So the first meeting with the Dell's could have been
the last meeting because they were at the will Turn
Theater and I was like, oh, you know, like after
the whole thing happened with the Temptations, I was like,
they're in town, so I'll go talk to them.

Speaker 7 (06:17):
Now.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
I don't know how to interview people, so I was
never like that, so we I do my research before
I go there. On their first album cover, they weren't
on the cover.

Speaker 7 (06:27):
It's a white couple.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
Walking along Michigan Avenue looking so in love, and so
I'm like, and they're on the back of the little
square this big and so then I was like, that's
kind of messed up their first album, and I was like,
that's kind of weird. So anyway, I go to the
will Turn. They're getting ready for the show. They're all
in their white bathrobes and they're putting their makeup on
and just chilling and everything.

Speaker 7 (06:48):
And so they're all friendly and nice. Robert Towns is
coming to see us. Man, Robert Towns, Hey, how you doing, Robert?

Speaker 1 (06:52):
How you doing?

Speaker 7 (06:53):
And so then we're.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Talking, and so then I'm looking at them and I'm
like going, I say, hey man, I'm trying to do
this move. I want to get it real about how
groups were treated, how much money you made. And I
could see their faces changing in the mirror, and I
was like, okay, I just said something wrong. And so
then they were like, yeah, man, yeah we made money.
Yeah we did, we did. And so then they're continued talking.

(07:15):
Then I said, your album cover. I said, why would
y'all on the front page of the album cover? And
I don't know, I just because I was I had
just looked at it. And so then in the mirror,
now they're in their seventies, late sixties, and I see
Marvin Junior go and I go, oh, man, Rob, you
shouldn't have brought that up. And then he goes, oh,

(07:36):
you know, they made a decision and we just decided that,
you know, that's how they was going to go.

Speaker 7 (07:42):
And then all of a sudden, it was vern and
vern says.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
They wanted us to cross over. They said it would
be good for our audience, you know. And then then
then I forgot. Mickey said, you know yeah, because they
couldn't they you know, they could hear our music, but
white people don't want to see our faces. And so
they started going back and forth. And then I was like,
and I was in the mirror, right, and I was
like the crossover cross that came from them, and so

(08:13):
as they were going through it, and it kind of
broke my heart because they were old, older men. But
then when I was looking through the mirror, cause I
was sitting back while they were all at the mirrors,
but they couldn't they could see me. They couldn't see me.
But then as I was looking at them, that memory
was like it was yesterday, and I was like, oh
my god, the pain. Because then then Mickey said, yeah, man,

(08:36):
we went to the barbershop and they clowned us hard man.
Everybody at the barbershop was like, what is this bullshit?
And we felt so disrespected and dah da da da.
But then you know, they made it.

Speaker 7 (08:48):
Up to us and blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
But so that's how that's how the Dell's and that's
what the Dells gave me.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
So how much of Johnny Carter's life was in h
the High Voice.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
Yeah, we just took pieces of different you know. You know,
let me say this, the thing of the church and
secular music has always been there, so everybody dealt with that.
So that's why we you know, it was that, you know,
and which is real? You know, like, hey, you can't
serve two masters, you know, so all.

Speaker 6 (09:19):
Actor the actor you castro, I can't remember his name
off the top of my head, but you also he
also played your dad, I think, uh.

Speaker 7 (09:26):
Oh, David McKnight.

Speaker 6 (09:27):
Yeah, yeah, David McKnight, and he was in Hollywood Shuffle
and then also he played choir Boys.

Speaker 7 (09:32):
Dad and David McKnight.

Speaker 8 (09:34):
No, I love him as.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
He was the first actor Pey Moon Ramie. He entered
when I was in college and I was in speech
contest in college. The first time I came to Los Angeles.
He was the first person to show me around, David McKnight,
and he had just finished a movie called JD's Revenge.

Speaker 7 (09:52):
Yes he was bad, he was JD.

Speaker 6 (09:55):
So yeah, man, wait, do you have another I have
so many, but final Five Heart Beats question one of
the things I remember about that movie. It wasn't even
so much about the movie. I remember because this is
what ninety one. I was twelve, all right, So I'm
watching Teen Summit, you know what I mean, And so

(10:19):
you know, back then, I would just go to the
movies and my mother would just let me go to
the movies by myself.

Speaker 8 (10:23):
I just go watch.

Speaker 6 (10:24):
And so I went and saw Five Heartbeats and I'm like,
oh my god, this is the greatest movie ever, you
know what I mean. So then later on I see
you guys on teen Summit and you're like, yo, y'all
need to support it, we need whatever. And it really
kind of cracked the facade. I was like, oh wow,
like this is is it not successful?

Speaker 8 (10:44):
Like how is it not? This movie is amazing.

Speaker 6 (10:46):
But I really appreciate it, just how real y'all kept it.
I remember you and Michael Wright, he was with it,
and they was just like, yo, like you know, we
need to support this. And you were talking about the marketing,
and that was just something that you know, seeing black
artists on a platform like be he talking so openly
about the struggles that y'all were having on a movie
that was in theaters, you know what I mean, Like

(11:07):
that shit was big, you know what I mean, And
so I just want you to talk about that man,
you know, you.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Know it is you know, let me just say this,
the five heartbeats. That's the madness of Townshend on the
highest level because I saw close to ten thousand people
to be in that film. You know, I had auditions
in three different cities and just just trying to make it.

(11:36):
I'm co writing, I'm directing, I'm producing, I'm acting, and
so I'm wearing all these hats and then I'm playing
music guy as well, because I had to pick the
music and the lyrics, have to make sense and learn choreography.
So it was like one of the hardest things for me.
But I loved every second of it. But again it's

(11:59):
that thing again of like the marketing wasn't what I
thought it was going to be and I wasn't happy,
and you know, this is my that was my second movie,
you know what I mean. But I've always been like ah,
you know, and so I lost the battle on the marketing.
So when the film started to die, I was like,
this can't be. This can't be and the film died,

(12:22):
but it didn't die. It was just Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I was like, do you consider it called classic because
to me, it's not.

Speaker 8 (12:30):
Anytime that movie's on I'm watching it.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (12:32):
Period.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
No.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
I mean when I say it didn't the box office numbers,
but I think because the marketing people didn't know what
they were getting, so we didn't make any money. But
then now it's like over a billion, almost two billion
clips shared worldwide because they send me the numbers on
like people will send the Sisters scene and they'll send

(12:54):
Eddie King and then all the memes of Gang and
I don't have to finish yet.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
What does that mean for you monetarily though that doesn't
that doesn't.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
Well, the thing is that, uh I means but see here,
so I'll put it like this, No, I do not
make any money on the clips, but the brand is
I was not wrong, you know. I mean I have
ideas sometimes and I think my mind goes, you know,
like I will create something like right now in my
brain there's so many different shows and stuff that I'm

(13:22):
working on that they're all different, and I just it's
like there's a certain touch that I have, Like you
can watch movies and I designed my movies in such
a way that I want you to watch.

Speaker 7 (13:32):
Them again and again and again and again.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
If I if I've done it right, I've done it right,
you know, if I've added like even like movies that
I just directed, like Baps. You know, there's so many
people that want to remake Baps.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
And they were a whole that's.

Speaker 7 (13:47):
A whole nother story that they want to do it.
But it's not. It's not It's got to be right.
It's got to be right. Metior Man, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Wait real quick because I want to give props to
the young young and just doing our make up upstairs, Aaron,
she said, wait, did Robert Townsend put the first black
action hero on film?

Speaker 4 (14:09):
And I was like, yeah, yeah, that was the thing?

Speaker 7 (14:18):
Is that again? That's a trojan horse? It's like, uh.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
When my nephew was really little, Greg Junior and I
was and I was coming back to Chicago and it
was like around Halloween, and I was like, who you're
going to be for Halloween? Superman, Batman? And he was like,
I can't be them because they're white. And I was,
you know, and because like you grew up in the hood,
there's a certain you know, And I was like, no,

(14:42):
that's wrong.

Speaker 7 (14:43):
Man.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
Everybody can be a hero, you know, I like Superman,
like Batman. You could be whatever you want to be.
And so then I said, oh, I'll create a hero
that that looks like you know, looks like him.

Speaker 8 (14:53):
Man.

Speaker 6 (14:53):
What was it like having Luther Vandros.

Speaker 7 (14:58):
You know, you know like.

Speaker 8 (15:01):
Luther?

Speaker 4 (15:02):
I well, that's a whole another because when I got married,
you know, it was like we would only play Luther,
go to Luther concerts and all of that.

Speaker 7 (15:11):
So when I read huh.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
We heard Johnny will say he's a hell of a
busser like the Dozens.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
Yes, so no, But the thing that I would say
is that, you know when I said, hey, would you
want to be in the movie? Because I called him
and he was working with Gregory Hines on an album
or something better, and so then I said would you
be in a movie? And so then he goes, you
want me to be in a movie? And I says, yeah,
but I want you to play the bad guy and
I want you to have a gun, and he says,
I have a gun, and so he was going through

(15:39):
this whole thing and he goes, he says, are you serious,
and I said, yeah, we're just in pre production. He says,
can I will you give me six months? And I
was like, give you six months and he was and
I was like, if you need.

Speaker 7 (15:50):
You know, I was like, yeah, we'll be ready, but
you know, you know our schedule around your schedule. He
said give me six months. And he was heavier then
and then he lost all that weight for.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
The little role.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
So when he showed up, I was like, right, right guy, Yeah, yeah, no,
but but he was perfect, but he was he took
it serious. He took it really serious, and we were
trying to do some other stuff. So it was it
broke my heart.

Speaker 8 (16:12):
With another actor.

Speaker 6 (16:14):
One thing I always appreciated you, like kind of like
with Spike, where you have your kind of crew of
actors that can keep working with. Yes, and one guy
that I always love, man Roy Fagan to He was like,
I met Roy.

Speaker 8 (16:27):
I was like, so he was dangled Roy bro I
met Roy. This was man.

Speaker 6 (16:40):
I was a kid, I'm like thirteen years old and
I went to he was doing a play in my
city in Greensville, North Caroline. He was doing a play
at It was an Anti which is the hbc U
in our tity and uh he was oning to play
there and I afterwards, I just went down in the
front row and you know, the cast came out, and
I just started chopping up with him and talking about
acting and like kind of like what is it like?

Speaker 8 (17:00):
Was it being?

Speaker 6 (17:01):
He was just giving me game? He's like, oh man,
you know you seem like a smart kid. You know
you got a nice commercial look, you know what I mean?
Like he was, he was cool and I always respected
it and remember that, and I just wanted to know
what was it like working with him because I.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
Always working again, Roy has been so Roy was the
U was the bad guy in Hollywood Shuffle.

Speaker 7 (17:20):
That was like, don't sell out.

Speaker 8 (17:21):
You know he sold out?

Speaker 4 (17:24):
What's really happened in real life. That's one something that
Keen and I wrote clear the audition. This guy messed
our heads up. He was like, brother, don't go in there.

Speaker 9 (17:29):
Man.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
They trying to get some brother to sell out again.
Me and Keing like really really, And then he went
in there with that same kind of energy. But no,
Roy is just a great actor. I mean, you know,
like even a meteor man playing the bad guy. You know,
he's just a versatile. He's just a really versatile actor.

Speaker 8 (17:42):
Yeah, man, that what's up?

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Can you talk about why you decided to do this
in DC?

Speaker 4 (17:47):
There was a part of me that the whole thing
of Washington Justice.

Speaker 7 (17:53):
Yeah, so that's why I wanted to there.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
From Atlanta last episode.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
I was born to Howard University Hospital, sir.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Okay, all right, so DC, I get it. I want
to talk raw. But it just hit me. He's responsible
for probably one of my best known songs in my Cannon.

(18:25):
He's responsible for sometimes Block. Okay, So here's here's the story.
Here's the story, and it just hit me right now.
You directed Carmen the Hip Hop Opera. Yes, so here's
the deal. Now, you know, I'm doing residency at Electric
Ladies Studios and basically D'Angelo and I, you know, get

(18:50):
along famously former friendship, and he's like, yo, when I
make my second album, I need you to be my
co pilot. We're going to start working on the Voodoo record.
So from like ninety six till yeah, two thousand and three,
we set up in the House of Hendrix, Jimmy Hendricks
in the village, and that's our operations. So all these

(19:11):
albums are coming here. The roots are making their records there,
Danzels making his records, Ericabadu, anyone that's in that soul
Quary and Neil Soul Bubble and so we're working on
commons like Water for Chocolate album and he's coming in
with an extra pepinist step today. He's like, yo man,
He's like, I got an audition. It is older Yo man.

(19:33):
I was like, what is it? And he's talking about yeah, man,
you know I'm gonna be an investigator like in a
cop in this hip hopper and old Girl going to
be in this too. I'm like, who's old Girl? He said,
you know old girl from Bill's Bill Bilder, Oh Dusty
style jot. Yeah, Like we didn't know her name whatever,
so and so we now. The thing was even though

(19:58):
I'm the guy who I'm the planner, I'm the bridge,
I'm the person that introduces people all that stuff. It
wasn't like my intent. But by year three I realized, like, okay,
when I fell jam sessions, I'm bringing people together and
when I'm producing people and bringing these musicians together, and
I thought about it. I said, Yo, if COmON gets

(20:18):
the this, this this part, in this role, then old
Girl I'm gonna I'm gonna bring her into our world.
Like I was like, all right, Beyonce, I'm gonna bring
her into our world. And so thing of the sitcom
switch thing. So he comes in the next morning, he
has like his sweater on, his tie, everything, his hat
like he's coming to audition. He's not coming in his pajamas,

(20:40):
like you know, we'll sleep there for five six hours whatever,
and so common he's coming in all excited like yeah, man,
I'm gonna knock this audition out whatever. And we're like
all right, good luck, good luck, and we're looking like yo,
you thinks going to get it. He's like, no, we
ain't gonna get it anyway. The thing of the thing
of the sitcom switch where it's like you can do it,
you can do it, switch back, and all dejected. I

(21:01):
was like, what happened. Whenever you get the role, you
get the roll. It's nah, man a man most audition too, Mannah,
he's going to get it. So we got jokes. So
that whole time we're just watching our our our dreams deferred,
our dreams, just like sail Away. And basically what happens
is we can't stop clown in common about losing this

(21:24):
role acting with old girl, so we just start mocking
Bill's Bills, Bills and all the The main line in
Bills Bill's Bills says, I don't think you do. So
that just became this ongoing joke for twelve hours, like
we play something, no common, don't you got that role?

(21:45):
So just what is going on all day and all day?
And then once Most gets the role that we really
start mocking. And by like mocking wom he says, by
Most death my mom, he says, So for some reason,
James Poyser just de sided to amalgamate the two songs
Bill's Bill's Bills, and Umi says, and we did it

(22:06):
for like twenty minutes for fun, and it.

Speaker 8 (22:11):
Blows like that's a gem.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
I like that right, And we're like, nah, man, it
was cool, all right, let's let's figure out a new song.
And now he's like, no, Noah, go go go go
back to what y'all was just doing. And eventually our
mocking of Bill's Bill's Bills, and Umi says, it's like
one of Bellow's most loved songs sometimes.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
But best below song of all times.

Speaker 9 (22:34):
Then that's how that song came out yeah, but even then,
maybe sixty percent of his vocals was just the one
you know, like stevens our engineer at the time, like
basically like he just took him.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Fifty seven mic and was just singing anything.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
I wish I wasn't me and literally just.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Literally that's how that song. But it was based on
Common's experience without the car, right, it just.

Speaker 8 (23:03):
Hit me, You're you're directly what was that light man
directing that? Just doing that like that?

Speaker 4 (23:09):
It was you know, I like taking on, you know,
chances and trying different things. And when MTV approached me
about doing a hip hop opera, I was like, ooh,
that sounds a lot of fun. And initially they didn't
want Beyonce because they were like, has she ever acted before?
So there were certain executives that were giving me pushback.

(23:32):
So so so here's the story. So then I have
to go to New York to have the audition there
she's doing something in New York, and I say, you know,
we'll have her audition at the MTV office in.

Speaker 7 (23:46):
New York, you know, with the big windows and all
that stuff.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
So anyway, she comes in and she comes in with
a bodyguard because she's in Destiny's Child and she comes
in with some A and R woman And so when
she comes in, I can see she's nervous, and I
was like, oh my gosh, she's nervous.

Speaker 7 (24:03):
And I'm like I had seen her.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
I had hosted some event in Cincinnati with Destiny's Child,
and I go, she's really chrismatic that you know. I
didn't know her name either, like Beyonce, but I was
like that girl, that one singer is really chrismatic. You know,
I could just tell what the camera like somebody. So anyway,
I go, no, no, she should do it. And it's
like Robert, you know, you want to get an actress.
You know, she's never acted before. So so vin.

Speaker 7 (24:27):
She shows up.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
She's nervous, and so I go like, oh man, all
the executives, you know, I don't want them to think,
you know, they got me on this one. So I go,
she goes, yeah, I mean I've never acted before, and
so on and so on and so on, and so then
I flipped the script. I said to the security, to
the bodyguard, I said, you're gonna be acting in the scene.
And then I say to the A and R woman,
you're gonna be acting in the scene, and then they
got really.

Speaker 7 (24:47):
Mister Telson, I don't act miss some towns.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
You acting today, And so then he grabs the script
and he's shaking, and then the A and R woman
she's nervous.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Stephanie, I think I can think, Stephanie yes, And so she's.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
Nervous and then I see Beyonce get relaxed, and so
then she gets relaxed. And then I was like, Okay,
so we're going to do the scene. Now, this is
the scene where you get shot. And I go, you
get shot in the hip and you're gonna turn around,
You're gonna spind around and so and so on.

Speaker 7 (25:14):
And so on and so, and she goes, yeah, let's
do it again. Let's do it again.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
And she had to hold those red bottoms on rolling
around the floor and her suit and everything, and she goes,
I don't care.

Speaker 7 (25:23):
I don't care about that.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
And we were doing it again and again and again,
and I just remember I showed this stuff to the
studio and they were like, you're right, she is. I said,
she hasn't acted before, but I said, she does her
music videos, but this is a hip hop And so
when we were on set, you know, the only thing,
the only thing, the only thing that got tricky was

(25:47):
that she was really a baby. She had never been
in a relations you know what I mean. She was
a baby that blew up. And so she was concerned
about the kiss scene because she had to kiss Makai Pfeiffer.
And so she would be like, I really kiss him.
I said, well, it's a kiss, you gotta kiss him.
And so then she was just so shy because she's

(26:09):
a baby. So anyway, so every day she would ask
me when we were shooting, is it today? And I says, no,
the kiss doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
He was like, and it's like, it's day seven. No,
it's not today, you know, day eight, No, it's not today,
day fifteen, it's today, And she goes, oh, And so
I said, just give me a good kiss, but she
is not, you know. I said, watch me kiss my hand,
and I do the whole hand kissing.

Speaker 7 (26:34):
I do the whole thing, you know, just to show
her because she wasn't.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
And so then Makai wasn't helping because he's going like right, right, right, wait,
come on, come on girl, come on, don't be shyd,
don't be shy.

Speaker 7 (26:48):
And so so.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
Then you know it was it was so it was
like comedy because then A kiss him and she goes
and I go, no, no, no, no, you gotta kiss.

Speaker 8 (26:56):
Him a little bit longer.

Speaker 7 (26:58):
I was like, yeah, how long, Robert, like three seconds?

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Three seconds and counting hand and though she's like, no, no, no,
you got to kiss him.

Speaker 7 (27:08):
And you know, I said, give me one, juicy one,
and we're out of here.

Speaker 8 (27:11):
One.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
You know what I'm saying, give me juicy rock Nations.
Don't come after me that sugar Steve talking come after me.

Speaker 7 (27:19):
And so she finally does it, and then it comes together.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
But I just remember, you know, like now, when I
see her, I was like, oh, she has grown. And
when I watched her in Cadillac Records, I mean, it's
just like, you know, she's just But I saw it
back then, even when we were in the studio recording
the rap.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Did she look at any Dorothy dandrech stuff or did
anybody even.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
I think I told her not to because I wasn't
trying to compare performances because she she just you know,
I could see she was a natural. She just needed,
like I said, that little switch of the people acting
opposite her made her relax and then I saw it
and then when we were on set, it was just fun.

Speaker 6 (27:54):
I wanted to ask you about a project that it
never came out, not to my knowledge, the sunny Listing
movie that you were working on with ving Rains.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
It was a very It was a company out of Canada,
so it had like a really small release. I'm really
proud of that movie being as a hell, let me
say this. Ving Rains is an amazing actor and he
doesn't get all the respect, you know. So what happened
was I had finished I worked with him on the
film Holiday Heart with Alfre Woodard and she got nominated

(28:27):
for the Golden Globe for her performance. And Ving he
had just come off a baby boy, but then he
was playing this gay man and I mean he was
just brilliant in it.

Speaker 7 (28:37):
Brilliant, brilliant.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
So after we got finished with the film, he was
he says, hey, man, I'm working on this movie in
Canada with this small production company. It's a sunny listing.
He goes, I don't like this director. I'm spoiled because
I got to work with you, and you know, people
really love you, know working you know, our chemistry as
a working team and so then I flew to Toronto

(29:01):
and we shot the movie up there. It's available on DVD,
but it's like a small production company out of Toronto.

Speaker 8 (29:09):
Yeah, I mean I saw it.

Speaker 6 (29:10):
I mean this has been years ago, Like I saw it,
but I always wondered why it never you know.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
Yeah, because because there was something about there was stuff
going on behind the scenes with the money and you know,
with the production company.

Speaker 7 (29:21):
But thing does an amazing.

Speaker 8 (29:23):
Job the movie.

Speaker 7 (29:24):
Man, Thank you so much, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Can you can you talk about the process of Raw
because the thing is, if someone asked you to shoot
a concert film, you really can't reinvent the wheel, right,
But is the pressure on is there a pressure on you?
Because I mean by that point, I know that for
certain comedians in uh, the sixties Cosby albums are their

(29:50):
north star prior albums? Are you know the north star
of seventies comedians? And you know, Delirious was pretty much
like people knew it was an instant classic the second
it came out. So in your mind, are you like, like,
what's what's the planning.

Speaker 8 (30:06):
Process for.

Speaker 10 (30:09):
Raw?

Speaker 1 (30:10):
And you know and that that how did you have
the wherewithal to know who Samuel Jackson was or uh,
but Richmond, let's say Dion Richmond or Ashley like you
have in that opening sketch, like these are establish.

Speaker 7 (30:32):
Let's see, but you know, you know what it is.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
It's kind of like I have laser eyes when it
comes to casting, Like my eyes are like laser focused.
So even back then, I'm looking and I can tell
when people really have the talent, they really have the gift.
And like Sam, I just knew he had something special.
I could just tell and I was like, oh, he
can he can improvise, he can do whatever. And then

(30:57):
with the kids, Uh, there's a reason why people are stars.
There's a certain look, there's a certain energy, there's a
certain frequency. So when I'm casting, I cast on people's energy.
And so even back then, those baby actors they had
that little spark, and I saw the spark with Sam.
You know, I see a lot of actors and some
actors are not magical, you know. I mean, I'm hard

(31:19):
on talent, you know, because I mean if I've casted right,
then they will be perfect for the role.

Speaker 7 (31:25):
If I've done my job, and you go like.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
There's something extra going on, Like people don't know that
there's extra sauce going on like like baps. For example,
Natalie who played opposite Hallie. The studios wanted me to
cast whatever black actress was on television at that time,
and it's like, well, she's hot, she can get on
the Tonight Show, she can get on letter Men, she
can get on so and so on and so on
and so and I was like, no, it's got to
be about chemistry. And she happened to be in an

(31:51):
acting class with Phason Love and Fason goes, there's this
girl that's in my acting class that I think could
be perfect for your movie. And I said, you know,
I'll meet her at your house. And we did a
two hour improv doing all the scenes from the film.
And so I was like I finished doing the improv
with her, and I was like, she's the star.

Speaker 7 (32:10):
She's the one who's going to be in the film.
With Halle.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
I call the studio and the studio goes, Robert, Robert,
she hasn't made a movie before.

Speaker 7 (32:15):
You know, what do you mean some unknown with Halle?
I said, would you just look at her?

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Please?

Speaker 7 (32:19):
Just look at her.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
I think she's I think she's got something special. So anyway,
he says, well, bring it to the callbacks whatever. So
we have the callbacks and I'm scouting locations that day.
So I've got the top black actresses from television, movies,
theater all waiting for a callback. Now, I nothing against
any of them, but I need a certain chemistry with

(32:42):
you know, this is Hallie's first real comedy comedy, so
I'm like, she's going to be a fool in it,
and I need to create a comedy team that we've
never seen before. So I get there. Natalie is a
nervous wreck, you know, and I see I come in.
I go, hey, everybody, thank you guys so much. Sorry,
I was running late. We were scouting blah blah blah.
And so then I look at Natalie and she's like rabbit.

Speaker 7 (33:05):
You know, And so I pull it to this side.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
I say, come here, girl, come here, and she's like,
you know, like I know half these actresses from TV
and movies.

Speaker 7 (33:13):
What am I doing here? Robit?

Speaker 4 (33:14):
What am I doing here? This is a big mistake.
I ain't never done nothing. So anyway, I said, would
you just relax and just be cool? So I said,
don't worry about that, dude, be who God made you
to be. Just walk through that door. So anyway, she
walks through. We bring all the other actresses in. She
walks through the door. The whole time we're sitting behind
a table like this, Hallie's on this side, executives over here,

(33:35):
other people, and Hallie has the script reader read with everybody,
and she's just watching and she'll read, you know, blah
blah blah.

Speaker 7 (33:43):
When Natalie comes in shaking a little bit, she goes, Hi, y'all,
this is my first big audition.

Speaker 11 (33:50):
I hope you know.

Speaker 7 (33:51):
And then Hallie gets up from behind the.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
Desk and walks up and hugs her and said, let's
read together.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Okay, So this is what I want to ask you.
Advice was so when my dad taught me how to
audition musicians, which is, you pick the simplest ballot ever
m h and make them audition the easiest ballot ever,
like fing of something simple, like color my World by
like Chicago whatever, just something very It's almost like Chop

(34:26):
six level of easy. And he tells me, and I
would say, Dad, why why do we we got more
intricate songs in the show, like listen audition none? He says, No,
He says, because the ballot will reveal to me, like
a musician will fall apart if he can't just do
the simple task of you know. So it's like forget,
forget the solid and the fels and all of that.

(34:48):
And even now, like with my group, if I present
something really intricate, they will put their mind power to
study it, you know. But if it's just do nothing
except this every three seconds, it's the hardest thing in
the world. What is the director's equivalent of that in
the audition process, because in about three months, I'm about

(35:10):
to go through this process and I don't know what
to look for or cheat codes to have they have it,
they don't have it, Like what do you look for
when you is there a specific go to? Uh so
let me say so.

Speaker 7 (35:25):
No, no, no, no, I mean here's the it's easy.
I make it very easy.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
The first thing is that I don't touch the actors initially.
I don't even you know. I said, let me see
your instincts, let me see how you see the role.
Let me just see your instincts. I don't even direct
them initially. So then then they'll go like I want
to do, and I just go relax, breathe, breathe, like right.

Speaker 7 (35:45):
Now, breathe, breathe, breathe. Take your time, close your eyes.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
Okay, whatever is stressing you worried about, get it off
of you.

Speaker 7 (35:54):
Shake the energy out, shake it out. Check it out.
Check it out, check it out, check it out.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
Here we go, settle, settle, settle, settle, settle, settle, settle, settle.

Speaker 7 (36:01):
Do whatever you want to do. Here we go and action.

Speaker 11 (36:05):
So now I ain't be got no weapons, no, but
but so so.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
Once I see their natural instincts, I can see if
they you know, it's kind of like probably with musicians,
you can see that little magic or little flur or
something and you go like, oh, there's something there. I
let them do that, and then then I start to play.
Then I go, oh, I love what you're doing. Hey,
can you do a be got no weapon again? But

(36:40):
this time I want you to put yours, take your
glasses off and put them on, and go, I ain't
be got no weapon. And then I'll just give them
like little things to play with, and then I'll just start.
You know, it's just I'll get on their frequency. So
part of it is like getting on their frequency because
it depends on the role. Like, oh, I had a scene,
there's a movie I did I'm really proud of.

Speaker 7 (37:00):
And it was like this little film called in the Hive.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
It's with a little retta Divine and it was Michael
Clark Duncan's last movie, Wow, And she was nominated for
the NAACP Image Award for Best Actress. And you know,
and the movie was so powerful and there's scenes with
him and they are so powerful. We played a scene
at his funeral when he passed. The family was like,
could you play this scene because it just showed him.

(37:24):
But here's my directing style. I'll give you just like
a little tibbot. So anyway, there's a young actor. He's twenty,
but he hasn't done anything, and he's got this monologue.
He's playing a kid that's supposed to be fourteen, but
he's old. He looks really young. So anyway, there's a
scene where it's based on a true story of this

(37:44):
woman in North Carolina who was the cook of the
school and when all the kids were getting kicked out
for drug Deane leading gangbang.

Speaker 7 (37:53):
And she says, I'll take them, I'll teach him.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
And she starts at school with this football player played
by Michael Clark Duncan. So anyway, the kid has a
long monologue where he's supposed to break down and cry,
and so he couldn't cry for some reason. And I
only do like three takes. I never do more than three,
maybe four. If the camera has a bobble or something,
I only do three takes. And I was up to twelve,

(38:16):
and so the crew is looking at me like rob
he ain't gonna cry. We are not gonna get it.
So then then I have to dig into my bag
of tricks. So then I say to him, I said,
you're working with Michael Clark Duncan and Loretta Divine and
Robert Towns is directing you. I said, who is not
with us? That would be so proud of you right

(38:37):
now in this moment. So he goes my aunt Betty,
and I said, your aunt Betty, And so I said,
you know what, I said, Loretta, can you come over here?

Speaker 6 (38:46):
Now?

Speaker 4 (38:46):
Loretta was on Broadway and dream Girls, and so I said, Loretta,
can you sing precious.

Speaker 7 (38:51):
Lord Lord we're gonna do And so she starts to
sing Pras's Lord, take my hand, lead me on. And
so I said, you're.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Here at at Betty's funeral, And she is so proud
of her nephew who is working on this movie, crying,
rod cameras, roll cameras, Here we go, here we go,
eighty camera, let's go, please, here we go, background, background,
here we go.

Speaker 11 (39:16):
Settle, settle, settle, settle, and.

Speaker 7 (39:19):
Action.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Now here's the part he starts doing it. The scene
is perfect, he's crying the whole thing. But this is
where it gets messed up. He couldn't stop crying. He
released so hard. He says, I had never cried at
her real funeral. He goes, I never released, and I
just held him, you know, and like certain times as

(39:40):
a director, because you know, I have the arsenal. I
felt bad because he got the performance. I got the
performance I wanted, but he had never really released at
his own. The same thing happened with Natalie Cole when
I was working on the Natalie Cole Stories about her
life and she had a monologue and I just remember, Oh,
she had a monologue. He's talking about her father. It

(40:01):
is like Angel on my Shoulder for NBC. And so
Natalie she she had this monologue because she was she's
in it, performing in it, and she's also doing the narration.
So she goes, my father was such a powerful man
when he would sing his songs. I remember so and
so and so and so, and she did it really perfectly,
and that part of my brain where like that extra

(40:21):
sauce comes in. I go, I go, you know, you know,
he really lived, he really lived. And she goes like
h and we go behind the green screen and she's
crying in my arms because she goes, I forgot my

(40:44):
father because it's all.

Speaker 7 (40:45):
Like not king cold, you know, i'nforget about.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
And then she goes like, I said, this moment here
is really about you talking about.

Speaker 7 (40:53):
That real man rather than like my father.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
He was like, right, like if you've talked about your
father or your mother, whatever, you would go my mother.
You would like my mother was And she released and
then we cleaned her makeup up and did the whole thing,
and then we did it again and it was grounded
and it was real. But it's like sometimes like like
for you, if you talk about directing or creating and stuff,

(41:15):
you got to get on that frequency of the actors.

Speaker 8 (41:18):
The actor was the actress was was that? Who played her?
I remember.

Speaker 7 (41:25):
She was? She was really good?

Speaker 8 (41:27):
Yeah? Yeah, wow?

Speaker 1 (41:28):
How was it working with her? Wonderful?

Speaker 8 (41:31):
Well?

Speaker 7 (41:31):
I mean we had so many because she was you know, it's.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Like when an artist lives a life and you talk
about surrounding yourself with good people, and there were certain
people in her life that were like snakes and took advantage,
and so we would have those real conversations, which which
breaks your heart because there's there's a constant learning curve,
like you, you got to learn this world.

Speaker 7 (41:54):
You got to learn.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Okay, Hey, so and so the business manager are okay,
so and so the agent so on, So my lawyer,
can I trust them?

Speaker 7 (42:00):
Oh? My best friend? Is she really my best friend?
Does she hate me? You know what I mean? Friend
of me? You know?

Speaker 1 (42:04):
So?

Speaker 7 (42:05):
So, you know, it's stuff like that that just kind
of breaks your heart.

Speaker 8 (42:09):
You have a favorite Natic Cole song, Real Quick.

Speaker 7 (42:12):
Inseparable Costa.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
My mother.

Speaker 6 (42:18):
I watched that movie my mother. She I think we
me and my mom just to watched that movie together,
and I think about it. Natalie Cole was her favorite singer,
and nat King Cole was my granddad's.

Speaker 8 (42:28):
Favorite sing Oh man, that was like again, that was again?

Speaker 6 (42:32):
Man, You really created those moments that like really brought
like generations together, man, Like for real.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
I heard a story from Keenan or someone in Keenan's
family saying that initially did the MPAA board wanted to
give Raw an X rating.

Speaker 7 (42:51):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
I did the whole story about that because basically you
asked me, like, what was the hardest thing? You know, like,
when you're working on Raw, you gotta comedian. It's a
genius and Eddie is a genius. And so I you know,
like I talk all the time when I direct, you know,
when you cast really well, you direct like this, that's
all I do that if I've cast really well, that's
all I do. So Eddie's a master comedian, so you

(43:15):
can't really direct him. You can give him notes and
make an adjustment. Hey, you could be a little bit
more animated when you do that bit. Hey, I'm gonna
be on your face here, so just give me a
little bit. So I said, you know, but you could
go a little bit further with the body here.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
So how many shows did you shoot too?

Speaker 4 (43:31):
At the Paramount Theater at the Paramount Theater in Madison Square,
Regard And so we did the two shows. So anyway,
we do the two shows, We're all excited, happy. I
put my cut together. I showed a cut to Keenan.
Keenan loves it. We make adjustments. I show it to
the studio, the studio loves it. I show it to Eddie.
Eddie loves it. Everything is great. We're gonna have a

(43:54):
big hit. Studio calls back, we got a problem. We
got a big problem. We showed it to the ratings
board and they've given it an X rating. You're gonna
have to recut everything what And Eddie was like, nah,
I ain't cutting shit, bullshit, bullshit, and so then he goes,
I ain't cutting nothing. And so then the studios like, look, Eddie,
we can't release an X rated film, Eddie.

Speaker 7 (44:12):
They're willing to work with us, Eddie. They're working to
work with us.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
And so then we have to have this emergency meeting
at Eddie's house and we have the lawyers from Paramount
and the lawyers from the ratings board, and they're all
around this long table in Eddie's house and they've counted
every curse word in the film, and you know, he's
got a lawyer.

Speaker 10 (44:26):
There's seventy two motherfuckers, fifty two bitches, thirteen cunts, and
various various cocksuckers. So let's begin and so then are
you taking that motherfucker? Are we taking that motherfucker?

Speaker 3 (44:38):
How many motherfuckers for an R?

Speaker 4 (44:39):
And so we go back and forth, we go back
and forth and we negotiate, and then we finally nine
for the line.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
You guys had to negotiaate.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
Yea then and then Eddie would get upset that. Eddie
goes like, no, no, no, I need that motherfucker. I'll give you,
I'll give you two bitches and a hope for that motherfucker.

Speaker 11 (44:52):
And so we go back and forth, back and for
a back and forth, back and.

Speaker 7 (44:54):
Forth, and he goes, we finally have an R. No,
this is good, this is good. This is good. I
think I think we're all there. We're almost there. And
so they go to the.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Whole thing, what is it like to have it? And
then suddenly you have to dissect and well.

Speaker 7 (45:08):
You know, I mean, here's the thing. It's part.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
You know, the film is called raw, and it really
was raw. He had you know, Eddie's a genius man,
he's a genius. So there was no filter and it
was like but it was like having a front row
to watch pure genius. I mean, he's still that guy,
he's still that guy. So it's like watching pure genius.

Speaker 12 (45:29):
I know this is kind of a ridiculous concept, but
did anybody bring up the idea of like a clean
version of raw? Like, was that even like an option?

Speaker 13 (45:36):
No?

Speaker 4 (45:38):
At that point, Eddie was so no, because see, at
that point, Eddie was so far you know, he was
like he was a rock star.

Speaker 8 (45:45):
God.

Speaker 12 (45:46):
What I'm saying the way you can release a song
now that's like a clean version.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
And people ask me all the time, how much did
you cut out? And it's like, yeah, we cut out
a bunch of stuff. But it was like being a surgeon, like, okay,
take this one. I'll take that fuck out. Because he did,
you know, the Italian guys grabbing their ball, you know
he did.

Speaker 7 (46:04):
I mean, he was just on some just he's a genius.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
He's a genius.

Speaker 7 (46:08):
But we couldn't. We couldn't do. It would have just
been beep peep, peep, peep peep.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Is there a director's cut in your layer?

Speaker 4 (46:18):
I wish, I wish there could be a director's cut,
But I mean that was so long ago, and then
after we went through cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting, you know,
it would be a nightmare to try to figure it out.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
We can go through your entire cannon. But we be
here for twelve hours, but we got at the bear.

Speaker 8 (46:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
I was gonna say, you playing Ao's father, Like, man,
what is what is it?

Speaker 8 (46:41):
Like?

Speaker 7 (46:41):
You know, let me say this. Here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
It is so well written, so well directed, produced, wonderful
talent cast. So you know, for me, you know, she's
she loves me from the parenthood. She was like that
was my growing up and blah blah blah.

Speaker 7 (47:01):
And I was like, oh, and so.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
When they reached out, I was like, I'd love to
And here's the thing. I was watching the show before
they even called and said, Hey, would you like to
be a part of the world, because it's just so
I just like quality, man, and it's a quality show.
And so I don't know what's going to happen in
the next season, but you know, everybody's you know, loving it,
and I just feel blessed to be a part of it.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah. I was going to say, and we we we
got to get her on the show. I saw Bottoms
this this weekend and she's like, that's that's the Stars
Stars Born Movement.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Ban Camp thing too. She got a couple of things.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Yeah, well she is everything going doing stuff with Tyler
and all that stuff. But man, you know, I know
this is going to be one of those things where
when you leave then we're just going to be going
back and forth, right exactly like, did I exhaust everything?

Speaker 3 (47:51):
You're still teaching at USC, professor? Yes, okay, And the class.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
Is I'm directing mixed, you know. Let me say you know,
let let me say this. I'm tenured at USC directing
and so so let me say this.

Speaker 7 (48:06):
I think.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
I'm like probably one of the few professors where I
have more students in my class than are registered.

Speaker 5 (48:16):
Ill to find out you can just go sit in,
people come people well you know, students, you know out
they love you know, here's the thing, you know, it's
kind of like it's like.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
I want everybody to live their dream and if and
and and I My philosophy is that if you want
to direct, write, produce, you can do it. You just
got to be willing to go the extra mile. So
a lot of the students I see their hunger like
they want it. And then sometimes there's professors that don't

(48:49):
know how to reach them or communicate. And the students
that I have, you know, and I and I just feel.

Speaker 7 (48:56):
I mean, you know, like like when you're a kid
and you go like when.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
I grow up, I'm gonna be a actor or writer, director.

Speaker 7 (49:01):
Of producer and a professor and I'm a literal.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
And so so the students, I love it when they
have their breakthroughs. And so my babies, they're all, you know,
they're my babies, my cinematic babies, and they're having Like
one of my students, Christian uh won the DGA Award
for a student and I was like, and I work
with that boy, and I was just like he won,
and I was like he's and he's really good. He's

(49:29):
really good. So so I just.

Speaker 7 (49:30):
Feel I just feel blessed.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Speaking of your babies, we got to talk about your baby.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Oh Jesus, yeah, yeah, what is it? What is it
like to see her? Her level of comedy is frightening
because what she's like, she's she when she jumps into
those characters, like there's I know people that can jump

(49:57):
in the character, especially like I've been at thirty Rock
for like fifteen years now, and so watching people like
the level of improvisation that like if any of those
SNL failing, like anybody in that stratosphere. They get into
a circle, they just start improvising, like it's the magic,

(50:17):
like the Harlem Glupe child is like that sort of thing. Yeah,
first of all, all your children like that, like they
all have special it's a supernatural level watching her, dude.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
And you know, here's the thing, you know, it's it's
kind of like we are all blessed and if you
walk in your purpose, she's been blessed with a lot
of talent, I mean. And yes, on the show, she's
showing you her character. She can go so deep, you know,
like sometimes we I'm blown away. But she's been doing
it since she was little, Like she was a baby,

(50:50):
Like when I used to take them to school. You know,
we would play we called it the radio game, and
I'd be in the car and I'll just change the
radio station and whatever music is and we go to
the different stations. And so if it's French, she'd be back there.
We'd be going French back and forth. If it was
Southern so good morning. You know, we just do characters
in British English if it sounded like the BBC. So

(51:11):
you know, as a baby, she was doing that. So
seeing her on the show. We just have these beautiful
moments because I just want her to like I because
at one point I was really hard on her and
I said, let me stop, because yeah, well I didn't
want to be the the Joe Jackson.

Speaker 7 (51:31):
Maybe do that?

Speaker 11 (51:31):
Boy?

Speaker 8 (51:32):
Do you do that?

Speaker 7 (51:33):
Damn boys, you got you better do it for the
Wizard of I. You know, you better learn how to
do that, you know, you know?

Speaker 4 (51:40):
So she So the thing is that I pulled back
and we just have the best because she'll be working
on characters and we'll just play and it's like, you know, it's.

Speaker 7 (51:48):
Like it's it's like it's like I got a question
for you, like.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
As musicians like for me, Like she has a magical
thing that she just you know, like she just lives
in that pocket.

Speaker 7 (52:02):
When you're looking at musicians and artists.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
Do they have to have a level of magic that
maybe somebody doesn't see?

Speaker 7 (52:10):
Is there magic involved?

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Here's the thing. I possess that magic. Yes, and then
you gotta be careful in how you use it, because
one day that magic just wound up being my job.
And I didn't realize that even though I channeled that
magic all the time, I was just it was the

(52:33):
a level with so effort like Steph Curry, like I
could phone it in. I can talk to you right
now and literally do the same performance I did on record,
Like that's how it is. The One thing I could say,
like pre pandemic was I was not in love with
music the way I was in love with it as
a kid, Like as a kid, you know, teach us
to play games with me, like, okay, name all six

(52:54):
commodorees in twenty seconds, Okay, Ronald la pre Williams, Richie
Thomas McClary, Like I was that guy. And then like
when my fan base would suddenly like like approach me
and you know, you know there'll be overzeals guy like yeah,
you know the Japanese B side that you did remix

(53:16):
or whatever. And I'm not saying I was the guy
that was easily annoyed. I'm willing todmit now. And in
hindsight that a lot of my self deprecation not deserving it,
Like I had to maybe create a character where it's
like maybe I felt so guilty for the positioning that
I'm in that I was willing to psychologically disassociate myself

(53:39):
so like okay, yeah, I'm like I don't care about
this shit, like oh man, all right, you know I'll
be like, okay, calm down or thank you, just say
just say you're a fan, and like I was that person.
So I actually had to learn how to be vulnerable
again in the pandemic because that's the first time my
adult life that I did and do anything. Like I've

(54:01):
been on stay since I was five with my dad
and then the roots started in high school and then
so I had to learn how to be vulnerable again
and order to like actually love playing music and it's
a weird thing, like it was a passion, then became
a job, then became a burden. Then it just became

(54:26):
I don't want to do this anymore. It became obligation,
like all right, they need to pay their rent, so
let me. I'll still do this. But when you have
silence on your hands, like we did with the pandemic,
one of the things that my coach therapist said was like,
you know, where's the mind state you want to get to?
And she suggested to me, like, it sounds to me

(54:48):
that you were your happiest with music at the age
of eleven, So I need you to return to that
eleven year old. And when you're like holding the world
on your shoulders, you know, you're dismissing your responsibility. I've
got time to you know, I got I got lives
to you know, take care of eleven.

Speaker 8 (55:06):
Year old is why you got that, That's right.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah, So I had to allow myself the levity to
be an eleven year old. So now I'm an eleven
year old again, Like I would never be this giddy
right now twenty fifteen, you know. Yeah, Robert.

Speaker 6 (55:23):
Roberts well Man like to your point, you ask him
about magic. You know what I'm saying, is there magic?
You know with musicians? You know what I'm saying, And
there it absolutely is. And the thing about us, you
know in our craft that I in my career, you know,
going through it, you know that magic is elusive. You
know what I'm saying, Like magic is, yes, you feel me.
So it's like if you're working on an album. The

(55:44):
thing with our crew we kind of take is like,
all right, if I'm working on a record, you're gonna
do some records and you're.

Speaker 8 (55:49):
Gonna have one record. That's a team that is like, yo,
we bodied this shit.

Speaker 6 (55:54):
Fuck you we clap like fuck what you talking about
fuck your opinion, we clap this.

Speaker 7 (55:59):
Ship up right.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
If you're lucky you I mean, if you get two
ten's on an album, oh my god, but like you're
gonna get that one. So for us, the mentality is
kind of to your point is like good is the
enemy of great Yes, we've been so we're so technically
good at what we do.

Speaker 8 (56:14):
We can just pull up and do whatever and it'll
be good.

Speaker 6 (56:17):
Fuck good. Good is the minimum. We're trying to get greatness.
So if you getting a ten on one record, you
feel me. If you got a ten, it's like, Okay,
we know that's magic. We know that was you know
that was our movie Dick. Okay, we called him one time.
But if we got a ten, we can't have nothing
else on this album that's less than an eight, because
we've shown that we can hit a ten. So you

(56:39):
come in here with these six and seven, funk out
of here, brou like that, ain't not see I feel.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Glory, glory.

Speaker 11 (56:46):
I feel glory, glory.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
What's your return?

Speaker 11 (56:48):
Like?

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Off all your verses?

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Little just think I'm like, so, therefore, Fonte, what would
you recommend to Robert as your ten album?

Speaker 3 (56:55):
What's the what's the one.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Listening, and I know for you the listening is almost
like my things all part, like when people say things
for all part, I've been like a man, but I've
done other albums. This is great, but I understan it's
just the thing speaks to the person where they where Yeah, yeah,
what not what you saying? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Because in my in my mind, I'm thinking Robert might
not really know here. He don't know what your ten
sound like, and he should probably know, so I would
I would like to know.

Speaker 6 (57:20):
Yeah, oh man, like I got ten for us, I
would say uh. On the little Brother's side, I think
our last album, made a Little Watch. That was our
first record in like ten years, and we just had
I just developed a skill set, you know, as getting older,
working in TV, learning the language of like storytelling, because

(57:42):
that's essentially for me, that's what musicianship is.

Speaker 8 (57:45):
It's all story sure, and so you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (57:47):
So working working in TV, writing songs for TV, writing
songs for Sessme Street, doing TV stuff like that really
gave me a whole new uh skill set in terms
of telling stories. And that translated it to like my
MC and the songwriting. So I would say Maylow Washington,
Leave It All Behind, which is the record I did
with my other group, Foreign Exchange R and B group.

(58:09):
We were now grant it.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Would you send me all? I would say, the perfect
gateway drug. He's also being honest and can't be a
fan of something he's a part of. But what he
represents is kind of like okay, so Drake has went
on record to say that that's his hero. So Fante

(58:30):
came along in the period in which when the Internet
and social media and the blogsphere was becoming this standard.
Like for you, it was pounding the pavement going to
these brick and mortar curtay houses whatever, whereas now you
can get a whole career based on this machine. He's
the first person really take advantage of what this device
had to offer in terms of He's made albums with

(58:52):
people he's never met yet in other countries.

Speaker 6 (58:55):
Record I did Foreign Exchange my partner Nikola at the time,
he was living in the Netherlands and I was in
North Carolina and Durham, and so we were just on aim.
We were on an instant Messenger and we would just
send tracks through instant Messenger and we complete the whole album.
We didn't meet until the album was finished. Like in person.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
You know, it's not just recordistic piece. It's a classic album.
So but yeah, listen listening.

Speaker 6 (59:23):
I've put up there connected our album, I'll see you stuff.
But I said all that to say, man, you really
hearing your story, Like I don't think you understand. Man,
like you lit a fire, whether you recognize you do
or not, you lit a fire under like so many
black creators and black artists that were like Yo, were
not waiting, fuck waiting, were not waiting on somebody to

(59:44):
give us a chance.

Speaker 8 (59:46):
We're not waiting.

Speaker 6 (59:47):
We're gonna make the ship we want to make and
figure it out how we're gonna do it.

Speaker 8 (59:50):
And I think, now you know.

Speaker 6 (59:52):
I mean a Robert Townsend in twenty twenty three, you
know what I'm saying, A young guy. There's so many
touls now that you know you really don't don't need
them to some degree. I mean, unless you trying to
make you know, fucking something with iron Man in it,
then yeah. But if you're just trying to tell a
story that's true to you, if you know how to
make it and you got your people, And I really
like what you said about how you know. I mean,

(01:00:13):
it was asking about the actors and it was like, yo,
it was my word, Like that is the exact same
way we run it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Bro.

Speaker 6 (01:00:19):
It's like everybody gets paid. You're gonna be compensated. You're
gonna be shown that your value for your time. But
if you can't, if you can't take a person that
they were, they signature on me.

Speaker 7 (01:00:27):
Sure sir, you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (01:00:29):
So it was just you really lit a fire under us, man,
and like watching Hollywood shuffle, like I showed that to
my kids. My boys are twenty two and seventeen, Like
I showed them that movie and they laugh at it.

Speaker 8 (01:00:40):
You know what I mean? So you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (01:00:42):
So I just you again, inspiration. I can't it's too
small of a word. Like you were a fucking and
are a blueprint for us.

Speaker 7 (01:00:51):
Thank you so much, thank you so much, thank you
so much, thank you so much. I don't want to
take it nowhere your think he gave the final thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
He's an aquarius, he can't take all these compliments.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I accept compliments. Wait, oh, you're an acquiring too, of
course you are.

Speaker 11 (01:01:07):
What is yours?

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
January twentieth, Yes, wait, I'm right now making the obligatory
phone call that I have to do whenever we do
a classic episode. He's not going to pick up. He
benefollow you, Jimmy, so you know, okay, so he's not
going to pick up. Whenever we do an exemplary classic

(01:01:29):
episode of Quest Love Supreme, I have to let Jimmy
Jam know that he's going down a rink. Hours. We
did that with Jimmy Jam was a six. It was
supposed to be ninety minutes. It wanted to be six,
three episodes, Jimmy, but then the Family Stand came in
and did the most unexpected episode of all time. This

(01:01:51):
this to me, I'm willing to say, this is probably
the episode I needed, we all need. Jimmy jam is
down on third place. Sorry sorry, Control.

Speaker 6 (01:02:02):
Is still a great album, Yes exactly, it wasn't the
man hold on one of my favorite seat.

Speaker 7 (01:02:10):
I have to do this for.

Speaker 6 (01:02:11):
Come on, man, we left you alone think you was
gonna leave that drinking and drugs ship before we left
you long, thinking you was gonna come down like Harry Lennox, like,
I love that scene, Hawthorn, God, just the actors, man,
oh my god, big Red like.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
I saw him doing Shakespeare at thespeare.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
I could see that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
Oh yeah, he was doing Macbeth and he was I think,
you know, and I was like, this guy could be
a bad guy, really good, you know, I mean he's
he's a brilliant.

Speaker 8 (01:02:46):
Now your eye for talent man, like seriously, like we
now we salute you, bro.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Unpaid Bill, you missed a masterpiece of that list. I
cannot wait to glue.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Are you still in contact with a marine because we're
looking for her to give her some flowers too. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
I haven't talked to her, but I can get you know,
because she did. We just they just released Hollywood Shuffle
on the Criterion Collection.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Yes they did.

Speaker 7 (01:03:06):
They did with Anne Marie. So I can reach out.
So yeah, I can get the I can get you
her number.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Well on be having a Faneglo sugar Steve Layah and
I'm paid Bill Bruh. I'm sorry, Robert that one Aftershode
of math Man. Thank you very much. We'll see you
on the scow around who Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 13 (01:03:26):
Thank you guys, thank you for listening to Quest Love Supreme.
This podcast is hosted by a Mere quest Love Thompson
lightas Saint clair Fonte Coleman Sugar, Steve Mandela and myself
unpaid Phil Schriman. The executive producers are mere just walked
into the goddamn room, Thompsin, Sean g and Brian Calhoun.
Produced by Brittany Benjamin, Jake Paine and Liah Sinclair. Edited

(01:03:50):
by Alex Conroy I Know Alex Conan. Produced for iHeart
by Noel Brown, Mike Johns. Auto engineering by Graham Gibson
at Iheart's l A Studio. Thank You very much.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Mus Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.