The QLS Pilot: From The Vaults

Travel back to 2016 to experience the never-before-heard pilot episode of Questlove Supreme. Ahmir, Phonte, Boss Bill, and Suga Steve interviewed the award-winning producer, musician, and songwriter Bill Sherman. By the end of this loose and funny discussion, "Unpaid Bill" was part of the Team Supreme family—even if he did not know it yet.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
All Right, ladies and gentlemen, every story has a beginning,
and you're about to hear that very very awkward. In
the beginning, we shot a pilot for Quest Love Supreme
with our very own Unpaid Bill when the time. Didn't
know that by the time this centerview was over, he
was going to join the show.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah. I don't know the genesis of this show.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I think it started with my fandom of Fonte and
the Boss Bills Gordon Cartreil podcast, and then you know,
Super Steve and I always talked about join our own podcast,
and I remember the notes from our boss is saying

(00:50):
that it might help to have a voice of a
woman on the show.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
So Laia will have joined us, I think by episode five.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
So this is episode one, the pilot episode of Quest
Love Supreme never heard before with Unpaid Bill. If my
memory serves me correct, I believe that Fante really knocked
the ball out of the park and rare form like
Fante was so good. I think that's what made Unpaid

(01:20):
Bill want to join the show.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
So enjoy. This is the first time I'm hearing it
with you, guys. This is the very first episode of
Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Hope you enjoyed, ladies and gentlemen, this is the first
episode of Quest Love Supreme. To my left we have
the Grand Imperial, the awesomest, the best podcast Ranter.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I know, supremely talented Fante. What's going on? What up?
Fonta up?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
And also we should acknowledge our resident team of Bill
bring Child Johnson. He's mute right now to microphone Steve Mandel.
Later episodes will also offer his two cents.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
How you doing?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
I'll tell you and later.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
And to my right we have our very first guest,
honored mister Bill Sherman. Bill, you have a long storied
history and and when the show gets more professional then
I will have your actual credits on. But being as
though we made this phone call extremely last minute, Bill

(02:43):
was my one of one of the fortunate eight producers
of a small off.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Broadway play called Hamilton. You might have heard of it.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
You might have heard it. How you doing, Bill, I'm
good man. That's great. Well, we're glad to have it.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Has an off Broadway place. I say it was a joke. Guy.
I was playing in Harlem somewhere at Harlem Church. All
female okay, you know. Actually I saw this play once
in Harlem.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
They were redoing the Nativity scene and they happened to
have I think Felicia Rashad was like the angel and
no Felicia Rashad was. I think Mary and Stephanie Mills
singer Stephanie Mills was the one of the angels before
the whiz. No, this is the way cost me show.

(03:39):
This is like last year this was I'll tell you
what this is when the Roots were mixing ill Adolph
half Life, so this this had to have been nineteen
ninety six.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
I like the fact that you can chronologically know what
happened in your life by what Rout record we were
working on or you were working on, which I think
is fantastic because I can probably see parts of my
life when Ruth records came out that were important to me.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Well, no dates, My memory bank is about what albums
came out, Like I don't. That's how I remember dates,
not like what's her name, Mary lou Henter from taxi
that has this, Like you can tell her like April fourteenth,
nineteen sixty two, and she'll tell you.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Exactly what happened in that.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Wow, Like I've tested it a few times when she's
been on the Tonight Show. But I only remember based
on Prince albums, Michael Jackson records, and what the roots
were doing that year, that's all.

Speaker 5 (04:30):
So Yeah, I remember Iladelf. That was I skipped school
to buy Iladelf. But I remember I.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
I mean you a juvenile, that was Hladelf.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
That was one of the two albums that I broke
the law, well, other than the records I stole still
in that you know whatever. But like one of the
first record I can remember breaking the law for was
Goodie Mob Soul Food.

Speaker 6 (04:51):
I drove to the mall on a learner's permit.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
To buy that album from the mall. Yeah, like yeah,
you know what I mean, Like I mean, I drove
to the ball.

Speaker 5 (05:03):
The several So then on on Ill Depth Half Life.
I remember the record came out and I was a
junior in high school. My homies were seniors and at
the time, you know, juniors only upper classes would go
off campus for lunch. And so one of my boys,
like Yo, were going to the record Change you get
their roots joint. I said, I'm riding with y'all. Fuck that,

(05:24):
let's go, And so I went and I didn't go
back to school the next day. I think I showed
I went back for like football practice or something, but
that was it.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
I was. I was a truant for wow, I'm it. Yeah, man,
I had to have it.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
Have you You could skip school and then go back
to play football.

Speaker 5 (05:41):
Yeah, you could because the coaches, like, you know it
was they needed to help.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, it's cool. Did you Have you ever committed a
musical crime that nature to buy a record? No?

Speaker 4 (05:53):
I skipped school a couple of times, for sure, as
we all did. I didn't skip school to buy a record. Really,
I'm trying to remember. No, I didn't. I mean, I've
committed many musical crimes in the name of music, for sure.
But that's like a whole different story altogether.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Oh man, I don't know if I should share this
story or not. Yes, you should. I think that definitely.
That's the whole purpose of the ship. I definitely think
you share it. All right. So the worst whipping I
ever got in my life was over nineteen ninety nine,
close the time the Times first record.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
What I have just set it up for you because basically,
all right, so there's a song called after High School
that's on the Times first album, and.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know, it was one of those moments at performing arts.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Now, I went to the private performing arts from first
grade to seventh grade.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
And so you know, it's in the early eighties, So yes,
it was very much close.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
To what life was like on that on Fame, like
people would break breakout and song break out and dance
full scale production. Yeah seriously, So someone had it was
one of those cliche moments. Someone had a big giant
boombox and put the time cassette in and put it
after high School on and then we were all doing

(07:16):
that Eddie Murphy, this is how white people dance dance,
you know, the Carlton right like, and it was a
happy moment.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
And then I unfortunately danced a little too close.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
To the boom box and caused it to fall on
the ground, Like I ruined that moment. To think of
that rerun Doobie Brothers. Yeah, shadows. I know a lot
of references, a lot of you won't get, but just just.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Google it, kids.

Speaker 5 (07:45):
Yeah, I feel like we should have like some kind
of like annotations like okay, so al dunbar the Doobie
Brother's episode of What's Happening? Yeah, he was the bootlegger.
So so we have to add say, okay, so it
was the time Rerun went to re won't wanted tickets

(08:06):
to a Dowie Brothers concert at their high school.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
And you know what I'm saying. And like he he
was the fact.

Speaker 5 (08:14):
He was, you know, the fat kid that had the
like the day he could hide the tape players. So
he was like the original napster of like nineteen seventy five.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
So like, so he goes.

Speaker 5 (08:23):
And tries to take the ship and this episode, no,
oh my god, man nineteen eighty.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
I was born in seventy eight.

Speaker 5 (08:30):
I was right right behind youself, but nah, I Roba
used to watch this every day. So your man that
played Al Dunball was also the black Theodore Wilson who
also played He was also carried on Good Times. I
can't remember which one he was on Good Time. He
wasn't He wasn't Lynna. Yeah, the name is Lynna.

Speaker 6 (08:45):
He wasn't him.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
He was like another guy. He was like, I get
him and what's his name? Mixed up?

Speaker 5 (08:50):
How from Hal Williams. Hall Williams was Who's Lester Jenkins?
It's oh, what is we going down the black rabbit hole?
Not even minute, Dunbar coerces rerun to take this this
uh this this this this deeper rob show with Michael
McDonald there in his full beard and uh he jump

(09:12):
up and the tape player falls out, and so he
gets caught like you know, the Dowbie brothers see him, like, dude,
we thought you was our friends.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
How could you boot like I should.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
He's paraphrasing it, but it was amazing, like, first of all,
brothers do this show with a gong, it's on fire
and everything they doing, taking into the streets and then
reruns dancing his ass off, and then all of a sudden,
the tape player just falls to the.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Floor and the show stopped.

Speaker 5 (09:38):
Someone notices it, one of the brothers noticed, and then
the Doobie brothers just look at him like it's it's
one of those like silent to be continued.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Mom.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
It's like it was like a very special episode, you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (09:50):
And so so, yeah, so they find so they got
they hook up and they go to Shirley's place and
they arrest al Dunbar and that was how was Yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Was brought to his resolution.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Mine wasn't that dramatic, But basically to avoid the school
bully from beat me up because I destroyed his his
radio shack tape player. I just thought, well, maybe I'll
just you know, swipe some money from.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Home and I'll replace.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Right, There's nothing like being caught in a black household
with a black father.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
That's real. It really got No, it's even shut off. No,
it's real.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
It's real because it's just like I don't know what
I think with black fathers.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Man.

Speaker 5 (10:47):
Like it's just like we was. We were just before
we started taping. We was talking about your your nephews,
right like Bill, his nephews is going through some stuff,
you know what I mean. And so he was like,
my go to go straighten them out? And Bill Sherman
was like, man, they could kind of straighten you out
because they Oh. And the things I don't understand about
black men, I think once you get to a certain age,

(11:08):
you're just not defeating us.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Because it's like when I'm twenty years old and I
would like.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
Fight, I would just hit you with my fist, but
like at like thirty seven, forty fifty, I'm hitting you
with every disappointment I've ever had in life, Like I'm
hitting you with Vietnam.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
I'm hitting you.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
I'm hitting you with my failed first marriage. I'm hitting
you with every job application that got denied. So for
you to steal from a black dad when you came
up like back in the day, like oh, man.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Dude, all in the name of Briyan of repairing his
tape player and maybe possibly buying that time except for myself,
oh woking up at two in the morning. Oh, I

(12:03):
canna laugh at it now, but it was quite the opposite. Yeah,
So that that was the worst crime. Well, I mean
I went through a lot in the early eighties to
listen to music like I'll share more of that later.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
But anyway, Bill, let's talk about your life from black
Fithers to me. Fucking you going through a divorce right now?

Speaker 5 (12:27):
So you probably got a lot more in common with
black fathers than you realize.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Are you about to in a little bit true? True?

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Is that the reason for the hair changed? No?

Speaker 4 (12:39):
No, the reason this comes up a mere And I
made the Hamild's record, and I had really long hair
and looked like a like a like cool, like a.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Hobo a cool. Hope you look hipsterisk okay. Of the
eight producers of Hamilton. I thought, okay, I have a
lot of in comn with this guy, like everyone else
is a suit that's true.

Speaker 4 (12:57):
Uh yeah, So I cut it all off because it
was getting long and I didn't I want to look
like a hobo anymore. And then and then I saw
a mirror to think and I said, yeh man, what's up?
And he didn't recognize me at all, hilariot.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
We were taking a photo with the Hamilton gold record
and he was staying next to me.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Like, hey, how you doing.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
I was like, oh, no autographs now, no selfish my head, like, dude, yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
I didn't recognize you, Bill, Sorry. It was pretty great.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
So actually this isn't your first Grammy, Like what is
in the Heights your first for rate into professional producing?
Or like what's your history with with that stuff?

Speaker 1 (13:33):
With music? Start from the beginning.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
I grew up playing the saxophone. I was really into
jazz as like a Dexter, Gordon Coltrane, Hank Mobley fanatic.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Wow, I was a kid. How old?

Speaker 4 (13:43):
Uh thirteen through twenty two?

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Okay, do you still play saxon now?

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Every once in a while I played to the other
day for my kids, and I couldn't understand that that's
something I did.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
It was pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
I'm a little traumatizing myself. I'm like, why didn't you
tell me this? I don't know, it never came up.
Why would it.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Do you play instruments? I mean I can play the.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Piano, Okay, Well, I was making light of the fact
that you didn't share.

Speaker 4 (14:07):
With and I and the kazoo, and yeah, so I
played the saxophone. I went to college. I went to
Wesley and University in Connecticut. I studied jazz for a while,
and then I got into world music. I was really
into West Africa and got drumming. That was my thing
for a while. I went to Ghana first semester I studied,
and I played. I played with a bunch of fale

(14:27):
As guys while I was there in Ghana who had
come from Nigeria. This is also a discussion we've never had. Yeah,
I'm like, it didn't And in addition to all the
other ship that you know about me, this you might not.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
So.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
I met Lynn man Well Miranda in my junior year
of college. And the great story with that, which I
tell all the time, is his girlfriend at the time
was producing this musical that I was music directing, but
I wasn't really into musicals.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
But that's not the point.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
And Lynn said, uh, he came up to me afterwards
and he said, you don't know me and I don't
know you, but we're gonna work together for really long time.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Did you think it was just a random crazy person totally?
I was like, okay, whatever, smart guy.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
So we we we did.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
We worked on his senior thesis and some other ship
and whatever, and then we graduated and then we were
gonna put on in Heights. We put On In the Heights.
That was my first musical. I never had a big
background of musicals. I just like music a whole lot.
And then I arranged orchestrated with Alex Lackmore in Heights
and then we won a Tony and a Grammy and
all that stuff. And then from there I also play
in this group called Freestyle of the pre which is

(15:29):
a hip hop improvay which has you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
He's making up, he's making this follow.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
Yes, this is all made up. This is my life story,
but it's all fictitious.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Wait a minute, do you know what you guys don't
know all Steve are you back checking you guys, we
speak are bullshit. It's probably what you would you would,
you guys, don't. I've known Steven Mandel, our engineer, for
near twenty years, and anytime there's a pie and fe
moment for me, he's there, his smirk, he's totally enjoying

(16:05):
the fact that I literally am believing everywhere you're saying right.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Now, huh, okay, you should it's true.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Okayestyestyle what you you know about this? Because you were
supposed to come to one of our gigs a long
time ago when we first met. It's we get suggestions
from the audience and we make up hip hop tunes
and Lynn's in it, and Chris Jackson's in it, and
I play keyboards, and there's a beat boxer and we
do all this thing right, you know, not real. It's
not real, but you should see it. It's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
See.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
But the thing is is that Da Vid was on
the Tonight Show. No, but David was on the Tonight
Show speaking of hip hop improvisational group that he was
a part of with the same people you just mentioned.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yeah, that's.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
That's the first real thing.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Everything up to now has been alive a little bit.
That's real. It's all real, all right, So what was
the concept of the the hip hop Improvisational Week gets
justific on.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
So it's like they do a thing called person placer sing.
It's like get a person, one guy gets person, one
guy gets placed, one guy gets a singer, and then
we just make up hip hop tunes about that.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Oh okay, so musical version of whose line is?

Speaker 4 (17:13):
And it's a hip hop version who's lining it anyway? Essentially,
but all the music's made up to it's all What
was the period of this? It's it's ongoing. But like
when we graduated from college in two thousand and two,
we toured a lot and went around to play a
lot of the comedy festivals.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
This is Wesleyan. It's post Wesleyan.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, but a lot of the guys are from wesley.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
So, like, how I guess my question because I just
think musicals, I mean, they fascinate me, you know what
I mean, Like I'm not I'm never was a person
that was really big into them, but I my the
craft that goes into them and just you know, having
to tell a story through song, like that's that's just.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
A lot of fucking words. As a writer, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
So, like, how do you go from just a saxophone
player to writing musicals? Like how was it something you
kind of fell into or was it like how did
you find your groove in that?

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Not on purpose? Uh?

Speaker 4 (18:01):
I lived on Long Island as a kid. My parents
would bring me to see musicals like every once in
a while, But it wasn't something I was drawn to,
Like I'm not the genre specifically is not wasn't a
thing that I was into. And I met Lynn and
he and we just did this. We did these shows
of his because I just liked the music and in
the heights was all like Latin music and hip hop
and stuff like that and stuff I know, and and

(18:22):
then it just kind of like if you asked me
what I wanted to do when I was eighteen, it
wasn't I want to write musical. That was probably not
even anywhere on my brain. I mean, I just like,
I just like music, and this was one of the
things that I do. And then it sort of spawned
all these other things, which is you know, similar to you.
It's like you do this thing and does all these
other things. You write cookbooks, you know that kind of
shit and then uh, is the is the cook book out?

(18:43):
Is it not a cook It's not a cookbook. It's
not a cookbook at all. I've read it. It's cover
to cover twice. That's bullshit, Steve, don't it's an expo. Steve,
you're the official judge of.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
You're right. Yeah, a ref, Steve, A ref. Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
So when the idea of Hamilton was presented to you,
at what point do you enter the foray as far
as the the genesis at least like.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Well, I probably entered Hamilton the same time you did,
because I didn't work on Hamilton the show. I worked
on Hamilton the record. We probably got the call at
the same time I worked on In the Heights the show.
I arranged orch stray the music for that. But I
did not work on Hamilton the show. I just made
the record, so probably we got the call.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
So when it was presented to you, did you instantly
feel like, oh, I'm instantly getting my second you know,
Tony and my second Grammy?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (19:38):
No, you know, it's funny. It should totally be a thing,
I you know, to be totally honest, I saw an
early reading of Hamilton and I was like, I thought
to myself, there's no way that like my Jewish grandmother
or anyone's Jewish grandmother is gonna pick it up to

(20:00):
be able to take it all in. And I watched it,
and I was like, it's like lyrically, it's just profound,
and so you just sort of wow. And and then
then and then it from that moment on, it just
gained steam over and over and over, and I just
sort of watched it become this thing. I didn't I didn't.
I didn't think that it was going to have the
impact that has. Of course, you could say that about
anything that's really impactful in the world. But I was

(20:21):
I didn't think people would get it or could follow it.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
But I was wrong, and you knew what it was
at the time when it was presented to you, because
the thing was I don't know. I believe that if
it were properly or thoroughly explain to me what it was,
I would have probably made a few excuses to not
because it was just like, Okay, there's going to be
a hip hop play about the Founding Fathers and the Constitution.

Speaker 6 (20:47):
Yeah, not on paper. That's not a very premise at all,
especially in the light of the.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
The sort of can't miss Tupac on Broadway play happened,
like yes, Williams, Chris Jackson is right, yes, right, yes,
yeah it happened, and then it went away in three
weeks and so.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
But that was like a jukebox musical in the same
way Jersey Boys is.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
But that's the thing, Like, to me, nothing was going
to top failure, and I was just like, Okay, that's
a lightning in a bottle moment, which I mean was
rather bittersweet working on it. But it's just that it
took two of the most cynical people I knew to
run to me and be like, yo, you really need

(21:36):
to see this now, Like Tarik Black thought of the roots.
Tarik and my manager Sean g are excited about not much.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
I mean, even if something is real dope, be like, yeah,
that's cool, it's all right.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
But they were like, you gotta see this, And even
then they didn't tell me it was a hip hop.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I didn't know what to expects.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
I just sat there and notice that this was the
longest song in history, Like it's.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
A play with no dialogue in it, all of what
like ten lines.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
But I'm just saying, like, how in the world did like,
did you even think that this would hit jack pot
or well.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
Lin Lynn's been my very close friend for a very
long period of time. And he called me while he
was reading that book, the Hamilton Book, which I tried.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
To read but only got through about one hundred pages.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
To be honest, for those for those that don't know,
the whole genesis of it all was once in the
Heights Mania ended.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Uh le. Manuel went on.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Vacation with his wife and decided, I'm going to take
a book with me for summer reading, and takes the
nine hundred biggest book.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
It's like the you know, the family Bible that's in everything.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yes, wait, I'm not the only one, hey man. Every
black family keeps the birth certificates and.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Keep it close. You gotta keep it close to Jesus.
We love Jesus.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
And I'm in the South too, so I mean, you know,
we really love Jesus. So dog, I really thought that
was just a Thompson the household thing. Oh no, brother,
But I mean, but your people like you, Philly, but
I mean your people from the South.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Okay, but that is My family's from North Carolina. That
is that is wow? Okay, So yeah, Lin took this
near Black Family Bible.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
On vacation with him, and uh and somehow got the
inspira it was, according to him, he couldn't put it down. Well,
there's the difference. I got past the index. Maybe I
got past the index. So I don't know, but uh,
like how though, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
I mean he he Lynn has always been like a
sponge for all kinds of things, like pop culture things.
He reads all of like the People magazine, the E
W magazines weekly, and he just and and he's always
reading and learning and watching and whatever. And I don't
know who who knows, you know, I mean like when
you when you know you're about to write a tune
and you know it's gonna be the ship versus just

(24:22):
like some other song. He just knew he had something.
But you know, the interesting thing was he uh, he
googled it because he thought that someone already had this idea.
There's no way that this story hasn't been told in something.
And he googled it and nothing came up. And so
I suppose he called his agent and there it was,
and here we are.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Wow, it's amazing. How did you get started on Sesame Street? I.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (24:42):
After in the Heights, I was the music director of
the Electric Company, the reboot of The Electric Company.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
I see, and uh did you?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Did you have immediate fantasies of rebooting it like the
original seventies show, which I feel is another stoner Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
I also just had immediate fantasies of holy shit, I
have a job.

Speaker 5 (25:02):
That was That was the immediate fancy fantasy.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
The new Electric Company isn't necessarily like no, is not.
It's totally not. It's totally not.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
I'm so glad you verify that, because I feel like
Steve is like, are you really going to start? No,
I haven't seen it because you're old.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
The old Electric Company was just more I think of
the stoner TV you're talking about, but I think the
newer one was like super sleek, super Now someone's like
three to one contact.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, so let's go back to special. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
I gotta say that one of the best experiences of
my life was meaning that cast when they came here
for the first time at the to the Tonight Show.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
And how cool they were.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Again, was this like a oh, I just have a
job thing or initially that wear off after man, you know,
so you weren't impressed to the fact that here's Bob
and Maria and I was.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
I was more impressed with the puppets because they were
more part of my generation of growing up. Can I
tell you something, though, you can this is your show?

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Are they right?

Speaker 3 (26:10):
What?

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Okay? Not right?

Speaker 2 (26:15):
If I were to askte are they right?

Speaker 5 (26:19):
You would know what I'm I mean all the puppets right,
or all the people that the puppeteers right.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
I've seen them many a times when the camera's not on,
still in character. Oh wow, Now is that just so
that they can execute a good job, because even when
it's long, even when the shoot is done, they're still
talking to me.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
It's like method acting to the hundred power.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
But I think the thing about to me, the thing
about the puppeteers is like, there's like twenty five people
in the world that do what they do, and so
it's this small sect of people that just this is
their life and this is their thing, and and and
and in the same way it was for Jim Henson,
it was just like this is the this is this
is what it is.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
But you're telling me that. Jim Henson twenty four to seven.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
Was like, well, I don't know. I've never met Jim Henson,
I don't know that. But but with these people, it's
just it's it's it's who they are. It's like just
such a in the same way that the puppets sort
of like an extension of their hand. The voice is
sort of an extension of the way they talk, and
so they just particularly I mean, it happens more so
with particular people who are just more whatever. And who
plays Zoe on the show, Zoe Jen Barn you're talking

(27:27):
about Abby? Is that Ahambie Leslie?

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Leslie.

Speaker 4 (27:31):
She's great, I'm sure right now she's talking and Abby's
The other thing about it is her actual voice and
Abby's voice are very similar. So so that might have
something to do with it. But like the guy who
plays Elmo doesn't talk like Elmo most of the time.
He talks like you know, another person, a real person,
Red Flax.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Right, they're all nuts, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (27:55):
I mean, in the same way whoever would come in
here and fill this be Like those guys are fucking
nuts too.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
It just depends. I'll show you. Yeah, I'm sure they would.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
I read I read something you did an NPR interview,
and uh, I read you saying uh. Sometimes the quote
was sometimes composers think that because the session shout have
to dumb it down. But these day children have unbelievably
sophisticated ears.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I think them and down is disrespectful to kids.

Speaker 5 (28:17):
And uh, I don't know what what you thought about that,
Like do you think why do you think kids today
are more their ears are more sophisticated, or do you
think they are more or less sophisticated than the kids
back from the Joe ropostal Ara era where you had
like Porner sisters and you know, Stevie and all that
kind of stuff going on.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Asked me to quote my quote.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
Yeah, yeah, quote on your quote.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Did a little research, I think google me. He told me.

Speaker 7 (28:47):
I was reading up on you' here, like what you've
done the interviews before. Man, just because you called yesterday
and some HU canceled and don't even nobody, I feel, yeah,
I'm totally there.

Speaker 6 (29:01):
I want to be away, I want to stay.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I will well.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
I mean, you've written for Sesame Street.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
I I the way I look at.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
It is like if my my daughters come downstairs and
they hear what I'm writing and they don't like it,
it means it's not good my kids listen to like
Top forty radio. They're not into kids music, and they're
into into hooks and catchiness and things that make today's
pop music as good as it is. And that's just
what kid's ears are open to now. And so like
when I ask people to write for Sesame Street, which
is something you didn't did not do, is is they

(29:30):
often like will go to vaudeville like the first thing
because to people to the general world, like Tesame Street
is liked or like some two beat shit and and
and these days, it's not like kids get turned off
by that just as much as anybody else does. And
I think that if you can write music that appeals
to everybody, kid, parent, you, whomever, I think that that's

(29:52):
that's kind of the thing that I try to push for.
That being said, sometimes we you should talk about this
because because I feel like at least the tune that
that you wrote was this weird sort of conglomertion of
music that totally worked and was like would be considered
by the general ear to be Sesame Street and something
that for hell would put on his next record or

(30:13):
whatever it is. It's like this weird and that's what
That's kind of what I try to do every day.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
It was a venturous enough to actually want to sing
something that weird or it would be right up Sally.
But I'll tell you something, I don't know if singing
dumb it down is necessarily a valid thing.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
I don't know why. I'm going through.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
A phase right now in which I really respect pop music,
simple music. And I don't know if it's the light
of and light of Prince's passing or whatever it is,
but I have the utmost respect for anyone that can
write the most simplest song ever and it sticks.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
And that's one thing I'm learning to do.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Like twenty years ago, you couldn't have told me what
a melody was, like, Oh, the melody is what you
play with.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Your right hand, you know, I was. I was. I
more or less came from a vibe place.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
My music felt vibe like it puts you in a
place where it's like a relaxed place, or I guess
people we'll call it like.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Sunday house cleaning music.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, but it really wasn't until five years ago that
I realized, like, I don't know how to write a
pop song. And now working at fallon where you're constantly
told to write these seven second jingles. Now I'm more aware, like, oh,
we got to write an impactful song in seven seconds.

(31:48):
So I kind of I respect that the art more so.
I don't think that.

Speaker 5 (31:53):
Has influenced your recording anyway, like you work with Roots.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
This next Roots album I believe will be our most
focused album as okay, as a as a music fan,
I feel like the way that I feel about earth
Wood and Fire, and the way I feel about Stevie Won,
the way I felt about Prince as a music fan,
and I'm always like dog, all they have to do

(32:20):
is get the same microphones, the same sound mixing, boartant,
the same instruments. So you know, I know a lot
of people will say like, well, you're too close to
your creation, so you can't. I know that no artists
can ever go one d linear all the time, that
they have to circle back and start all over again.
So I think the music fan of me knows that

(32:44):
we have to go back to step one again.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Gotcha. I don't want to go back to ninety four.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
I kind of want to go back to ninety This
album is going to be very close to ninety six.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Ninety nine.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
This will be the Ladelph Things Fall Apart album that
I think a lot of our early fan BASI has
been waiting for its break beat heavy But having wrote
for the show so much, I can't ignore the education
that I've gotten being a DJ and being a songwriter
on the show, which is I'm instantly thinking, Okay, where's

(33:18):
the melody, where's the where's the part that you know,
my assistant will be like, oh, I remember that song,
Like it's it's going to be hard to ignore the
education I've gotten again, like like do you believe in
good songs?

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Are bad songs? Or effective so versus non effective?

Speaker 5 (33:35):
Yet well, I think I guess to me is more
of a thing where for me it's a little bit
of both. It's like I think that there can be
songs where like if the only place I can enjoy
it is if I'm halfway drunk, then probably is you know. No,
I'm just saying like like if that's the only place,
if that's the only time, ship like any other go

(33:58):
through any like play like right now on like you
know wherever a hot nine, seven, one or five wherever?
But I mean if but I'm saying if I can
only enjoy those songs in that particular setting. It is
an effective song and I can get it. But once
I come out of that kind of haze, I can
be like, Okay, this is kind of a shitty song,

(34:18):
but it does work in its context.

Speaker 6 (34:20):
But it's like McDonald's.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
It's like I like McDonald's, and when I want McDonald's,
I fucking want McDonald's.

Speaker 6 (34:25):
But I'm not about to argue in someone the nutritional.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Value of McDonald's. It's like, nigga, I'm not about to
do that, you.

Speaker 5 (34:32):
Know what I'm saying, Like it's just if you want
a quarter pound, to eat your quarter pound and be
happy and just that's what it is. But don't I'm
not about to them argue as to why you should
eat McDonald's every day, like getting me?

Speaker 1 (34:43):
So, is there a committee on such?

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Because I would imagine a show so well respected, with
all these songs that stick, I would imagine that there
is a jury of you know, of people that are
are constantly dissecting, uh, every creation that's on the show,

(35:05):
like what's that?

Speaker 1 (35:06):
What's the songwriting process? Like I spayed four week.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
All of the lyrics are given to given to me
by the scriptwriters, and prior to that, they're passed through
the education department, so they've gone through the lyrically, it's
gone through a bunch of different things because it needs
to be grammatically correct and it needs to get across
the education thing we're trying to get across. Once that's done,
it comes to me and then it's just sort of
like so for every song, yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Songs about emotions and even songs about the number two. Wow.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Yeah, every song goes through this stinking process. Yeah what
red flag?

Speaker 1 (35:39):
No nos are there in sesame street songwriting?

Speaker 4 (35:42):
Like most of it's about the character if it's not
written like the character would say it, Like, for example,
like Elmo never says, I am.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
How come Elman cookies talk grammatically and correct?

Speaker 4 (35:54):
It's a good question. Don't know the answer to that.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
You could.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
You should ask them the next time you see them.
I'm sure that believes I still have a job.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Okay, that really is weird.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, he says that, that's right.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
I mean, because he's because they're three or they're five,
and maybe that's what kids who are three or five too.
I should probably know that my kids are three.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Or five anyway anyway, So the process is so then
so then it comes to me and then it's like,
if it's a song that exists in a script, it's
how does it.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
Throw you know, how does it work narratively? And what
does it want to feel like and sound like? And
then if it's a pull out song, it's like, if
it's for a celebrity, who are they and what do
they sound like? And can we make it sound like them?
And then it sort of goes from there, and then
I write it or somebody writes it, and then it
goes back to the producing staff I'm sure, similar to
whatever goes on here, and and they approve it or

(36:39):
they don't do the da da dah, and then it's
sort of that's it. It's a lot of people, but
at this point, forty seven years later, are there hurt feelings?

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Nothing's worse than getting the song rejected.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
I gotta say this. I mean, I've written ten thousand
songs at this point. If one gets rejected, I just
go and write another one. Like I don't personally, I
don't really, I'm not too precious with anything at this
point because I can't be, because it just needs to
happen too quickly, so.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Oh so if you don't have it, then blah blah
blah will have it.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, or like if it comes back and I was
if I'm if I'm so far away that they're like
trashing right a new one, then I'm like what at
this point? Like how can I be that fucking far away?

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Right?

Speaker 4 (37:16):
But it happens from time to time, but must sometimes
just like it's too fast, we want it to be
slower so kids can understand it that I get a lot,
or it's not cooking enough, funny enough. You mentioned like
if if it's not a thing that a your kid
could sing back or be they want to stand up
and dance to, then then it's not good enough.

Speaker 6 (37:32):
That's how often I want to ask, man?

Speaker 5 (37:34):
How often for you is it that because I haven't
done I've done some TV work, some movie work, writing
for stuff, whatever, and I haven't done a lot of it,
but I've done some. How often for you is it
that you will do a song they send it, they
reject it, and they asked you to make changes or whatever,
and it actually is better. Like you like you sit
back after it's done and be like, well, damn, that

(37:54):
was right versus man.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Y'all fuck my song up? Like, how often does that
happen for you? A few times a week?

Speaker 4 (38:01):
I mean, it depends, really, And so this week I
wrote this song for Titus Burgess for this show I'm
working on, and it was too fast and they wanted
it to be slower. And I'm always hesitant about slowing
things down because it just fucks it up all the time. However,
in this case it came to I brought it back
a little bit and worked totally fine. So there's that,
and then the same thing that happened, like I wrote

(38:22):
a song where I crunched the verse really quickly. Because
the other thing about children's songs, if you've listened to them, is,
especially with Sesame Street, you're trying to get so much
across that there's a lot of words, a lot of syllables.
It's not like you're holding notes, You're not like soaring
and stuff's not really it doesn't really happen. So so
in doing so, you know, you have to make sure
that every word, like you can't overlap like the end
of a verse into a chorus, because you can't then

(38:44):
hear the end of the verse mix wise or not
like if it's on the screen and there's two people
at the same time. That's another thing about Sesame Street.
It's not a lot of duets or not a lot
of people singing at the same time unless it's like
a chorus thing, Like you would never hear two puppets
like singing harmonizing or harmonizing for sure, but like singing
count over. They would never sing over the top of
each other. Hey man, Which, by the way, that was

(39:10):
a deep cut and I was really happy about that. Yeah,
but nobody knew any Sesame.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Street songs on the show Man, Like the old producer
Staffs is looking at me like.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Yeah, no, one's going to get this, but you got it.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
I always thought that frank Oz should have like a
Lozengers deal or something.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
He's the best.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
It's how was he able to utilize that voice?

Speaker 1 (39:40):
And he was Cookie Monster for at least forty years.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, and Grover and it Piggy and bird Oh wow, yeah, yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
So Frank Oz left Sesame Street like I don't know,
ten years ago or something, and the guy who took over.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
His name is David Rudman.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
He I believe he's also the hands of the Swedish Chef,
which I think is a pretty cool thing. But yeah,
but he does Cookie Monster and and baby Bear and
a bunch of other stuff. But yeah, he he When
we record with him, we sometimes if it's too low.
He can only last a certain amount of time because
that voice is so insane.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
How many voice characters are still on the show that
were there? Is Carol Spinny. Carol Spinny is the last
still bill Big Bird. He's he does the voice of
Big Bird and the voice of Oscar.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
And last year am I allowed to ask how old
Carol Spinny is. He's a male.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
Yeah, yeah, all right, I think he's eighty something seriously,
And yeah, the best line about Carol, of which there
are many, is like a few years ago or five
or six, he said I don't think I can do
Big Bird and roller skates anymore, which I thought was
a pretty good line.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Wait, he was also the body of Big Bird, yes,
for the entire span of the show. Oh, and just
stopped doing it since I two years ago, a year ago.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
So now someone.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
Someone someone bodies it and he does the voice. Same
thing with Oscar the Grouch.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
Yeah, pretty amazing, there's some great eight or something. Yeah, like,
are there voices insured or I don't know, that's a
good question. Yeah, I have no idea they should be saying.
But Frank, you have a backup bird just in case.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
There is, there's a backup bird. Is he good? He's great.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
He's also that guy is Matt Vogel. He's in the
Electric Mayhem band. Who's the guy who plays the bass
in the Electric Mayhem band.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
I'm blanking Shannon Tweed.

Speaker 8 (41:42):
Actually I actually figured out why Cookie Monster doesn't speak
grammatically correctly?

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Why grammatically correctly correctly? He's a monster.

Speaker 8 (41:58):
Oh he's not like a real you know person, He's
he's crazy or whatever.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
We just have thoughts from Steven Steve Star.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
He's going to be the start this podcast three months.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
He's gonna get his own second. He's that makes it.

Speaker 5 (42:14):
That makes I was I think it was diabetes because sugar,
the sugars.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, sugar, yeah, yeah, that is that. Yeah, the sugars.

Speaker 6 (42:24):
That is another thing that goes into the Black Bible.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
All right, So Steve and I met, uh. Steve was
an engineer at Electric Lady Studios. So during the whole
Soul Quarium renaissance of of what uh Voodoo and Erica's
Mama's Gun and all the all the common records. That's
how Steve and I worked with each other. So when

(42:50):
he left Electric Lady and I hired him as my
full time engineering Philly.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Uh what started in two thousand and six.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
I'm still thinking about cooking.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
I'm sorry, shout.

Speaker 8 (43:00):
We should do we should do an episode where the
cookie Monster learns how to speak correctly.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
We did one where he didn't eat cookies.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Monster.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
People were like up in arms, like, yeah, I didn't
like to take that.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
I do not that I watched it. Know, that's that's
his legacy. You're the only friend I have to watches
just for the record.

Speaker 8 (43:22):
Well, anyway, he's in his mouth, he crumbles him up
and he throws them like he doesn't even eat any
of it.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
I like that you're telling me this, like I don't know. Thanks,
Thanks Steve.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Anyway, So when Steve came to Philly to work full
time for the Roots, his tired diet became my diet.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
So every day, Yeah, do I even need to finish it? Yes.
Steve is one of the first white people I know
that had the sugars. Oh, damn what we got cookie
monster is fine. I'm fed up. You let quiess love seriously. Well,
there's a soul food church, like down the street from.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
The there's a soul food church down the street from
the studio, so we ate there.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Everything like clockwork is man.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
So it's kind of equivalent. What was the McDonald's thing
for thirty days of supersize? Yeah, so I mean he
ate soul food at least like four months in the
road and by the end he was done.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Shots. Wow, Wow, Steve had the sugar, Steve Sugar, How
did you recover? Just left?

Speaker 3 (44:39):
You don't recover from you just keep going with it.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Damn, Steve.

Speaker 6 (44:45):
Steve's in the Black Bible, man, Yo, you were fishing
in the Black Bible.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Steve.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
You got daby that's like the blackest disease up like
that and.

Speaker 5 (44:53):
The gout like no one, No one figures out what
the gout is.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
But it's just you don't want that ship.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
I got all that ship.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Welcome you ride a dis man.

Speaker 6 (45:08):
Ride ride to dath.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
You know what, one day, one day.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
We're going to listen to this episode when we're like
professional and.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
I'll be dead.

Speaker 8 (45:29):
It wasn't just fried chicken that came and died because
that takes it takes longer than four months to get
it too, you know.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
But you're also so you still gonna take.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Now you Yeah, you still do it.

Speaker 8 (45:42):
Whenever I eat, I have to take in something and
then I take in something like a one that different
kind of that helps you twenty four hours a day.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Try and keep it like there's no coming back from it.
Not yet.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
They're working on it. Don't worry.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Wait, did I really do this theme? Like I feel bad?
It's like for a moment right now, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
They're working on it.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Like your family gonna be like you.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
No, I didn't tell them that you did this, all right,
so we can.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Just take this past. Have we talked about music at all?

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Right?

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Black Bible? There was Steve's diabetes.

Speaker 5 (46:24):
Great show man, we're talking about music. We supposed to
be talking about something when we when we dried out all.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Of our resources. What's Steve has diabetes? That was depressing?
Ship from man. Don't pass out, Steve, keep it together, yo,
because it's such a depressing disease. Like I got an uncle.

Speaker 5 (46:51):
Nah, dude, like no, like dude, because it's because the
thing is is Okay, I'm gonna tell you the tragedy sympathy, No, no, no,
for real you and I'm gonna tell you the tragedy
in this. It's because, like Steve, like you're a skinny guy,
so you ain't even got the fatness to go with
the diabetes.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
So it's not even like you earned it, you know
what I mean. It's like it's like you're not even
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (47:12):
It's like it's like I know a chick that's like
a fat vegan and it's just like honey, wow wow, yeah,
Like it's just you know, I mean, like why like
you you if you go if I'm a fat, if
I'm gonna be fat, I mnna have everything that comes
with it, and I'm gonna earn the fatness. So to
be a skinny guy with that's fucking miserable. I really,
you have myself and to think about every time I

(47:34):
sit down to eat a meal, I gotta think about
what I'm gonna eat. I got an uncle with diabetes. Thanksgiving,
he can't have sweet Tata pot and.

Speaker 6 (47:43):
He can't do it. Like it'll be like what we
call the ems.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
All right, we're gonna blue smoke after all? Yeah, right straight.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
There, you know, Yeah, I gotta earn it.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Oh boy, Okay, weird music, So I have I.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
I orchestraighted in the Heights in two thousand and eight
and I wanted Tony. It was a wild night and
the first time I ever won an award and that
was great.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Do cast albums get Tony's at all?

Speaker 4 (48:16):
No, they get Grammys.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
I'm not. I'm not gonna get it. Get bye you
are you playing?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
I'm going and I'm boone wrestling that stage when how
many people are gonna get on that stage with one hundred?

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yo?

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Wouldn't it be hilarious if the voting Academy just assumes
that Hamilton is going to get Best Playing.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
So they decided, like, let me just give it to
something else.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
I mean, I thought when we were so when we
did the Grammys and they gave the award on the
stage at the Richard Rogers, and I was the only
person in LA for a moment, I was like, what
if Seth McFarland walked up there and is suddenly presenting
the best cast album that no one gives a fuck about?
And he goes and it goes to not Hamilton? I
mean the patant and that it would have been unbelievable.

(49:01):
That would have been such a great moment, like and
I would have been the only person there in l
a be like wow, that would have been like.

Speaker 5 (49:07):
A Steve Harvey at the pageant moment, right because the
winner is Hamilton.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
I'm sorry, folks, I gotta be real. That was ship. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
I think the way that the Roots one, our first Grammy,
was that moment because it's like.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
I've heard your.

Speaker 5 (49:31):
Buty'all were up against like it was like Doctor Dre
and Snow was to go ahead.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
It was just kidding. I did doc compare the Roots
of General told to shut the fuck up, go ahead.
It was wait, I ain't gonna even on the red carpet.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Moby was like, yeah, I'm really excited to going to
present the you know the best Rapperward or whatever.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
They were like, well, who are your favorites? I don't know.
It could be Doctor Dre, it could be Eminem, could
be snoop Ah Man. I really hope it's Bust Rhymes
Jane Jackson. I love that song. I love those guys.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Matter of fact, even if they're not the winners, I'm
gonna say that bust Rhymes and Janet Jackson is the winner.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
So that was the movie. So that was the energy
that he can vegan Skinny Vegan. Probably that was the
energy that he put on the red carpet.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
So meanwhile, we already lost uh two Grammy's too Eminem
earlier that night, and so sitting in the audience, I
was like, well, I know we're not gonna win, so
it's whatever.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
And suddenly I didn't Now I didn't hear.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
What movie said from the stage, but when they called
her name, I was like, holy crap, Like we won.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
How this happened? It's it's like that scene in Boogie
Knights when Don Chetle.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Goes into the door and all white and everyone gets
shot and fills, except.

Speaker 5 (50:59):
He walks off with the he makes it and starts
his his shot his seal shop.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Yeah, and doctor Dre and Snoop versus Doctor Dre and
Eminem versus R. Kelly and Puffy versus Janet Jackson and
Bustin Rhymes, and then the roots in Eric Aboudu and
somehow you.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Won, y'all were the last one standing.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
I felt it was only that specific situation at which
we were allowed to win. Now, I went home to
night to watch the victory tape and then movie was like,
and the winner is.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
In theory? Oh wow, the Roots? And did he say that?

Speaker 2 (51:37):
He said the winner is in theory the Roots, and
Eric about wow. I didn't know what in theory meant,
so I was like, what does in theory mean? That
means you didn't deserve to win a mirror, but you're
technically the winner.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Yeah, ah man, And I was like, that's some shit.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
Can I ask a question about that song? Because because
we were talking before about hooks and pop music and things.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Like that, which one you got you got?

Speaker 4 (52:01):
Is there something to be said that The Roots is
biggest pop success. Is one of the only songs you
have that has like melody and stuff in.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
It that that that has the hook of hooks? I mean,
I think we got lucky. I mean, plus, you can't
discount Scott Stewart.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Like of all the keyboard players that have been in
the Roots, Scott's right hand is automatically programmed to think
of what the melody is. I mean, at the time,
what was the number one communication device two way pages?

Speaker 6 (52:35):
Yeah, that was kind of a Yeah, that was.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Scott's whole theory was it's not a hit if you
can't put it in a two way page.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
And I was like, I never thought of that.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
But then, I mean, in the in the light of
Neptune's beats with you know, just simple one New Chords,
it felt at the time it felt like, oh, that's just.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Lazy songwriting whatever.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
But now I get and understand what melody is. But yeah,
it baffles me every day that we've never had a
dance jam or a dance hit or you know.

Speaker 5 (53:07):
Now I will say this. I was always questioned, I
want to ask you this. I was always wondered, you know,
like Bill was saying, what you got me? Being the
one that I had Melody, one of my favorites, still
one of my favorite melodies by y'all to this day,
is complexity with jill Off phrenology.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Right, why why you got me? And not that one?

Speaker 5 (53:27):
I mean, aside from one getting a push or you
know whatever, or one being pushed as a single, because complexitly.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Wasn't a single, It wasn't a singing something that was
hard to sing.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
In my in my heart I felt, and in my
heart I knew. I think I wanted to make cool filler.
I think I made great filler, and even the artist
that I like, Stevie wonder Print and the Beatles, and
like you can judge a really good artist based on

(53:57):
the filler, Like I like their filler more than I
like the sing Gotcha Bill?

Speaker 5 (54:01):
Do you spend a lot of time working on lyrics?
Like is that something that you like? What comes first
to you? Is it music first? Lyrics first?

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Like justing now right?

Speaker 4 (54:10):
Yeah, I mean I always get sent a page of
lyrics for the most part when I'm working on like
TV shows and things like that. But then when I'm not,
I'm not I hire lyricist. I'm not a lyricist per se.
I think for me, the music always comes first, or
the or the or the the hook, Like I'll write
hooks first and then go back first.

Speaker 5 (54:27):
That's the same way I am too. For me, it's
like I was an English major in college. So for me,
writing a song like the hook is like your thesis statement,
and then your verses are like the paragraphs to support
the thesis statement. So it was it was very much
My process is the same way.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
See I'm asked backwards verses verse.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
I'll even go deeper than that beat first.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
First of all, I'm so non singles thinking I think
of the album. And when I'm thinking of the album,
the first thing I work on are the interludes. To me,
I don't know you remember that feeling of getting Pete
Rock's records, the interludes.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
Look, man, I remember buying. I didn't break the law
for main ingredient.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
I didn't. That was like break This is a fun
breaks breaks the law episode. Okay, the last that was
last one, I can last record. I remember breaking the
law for it. I broke the law for.

Speaker 5 (55:24):
I had a home it that worked at a record store,
and I broke the law. Now it wasn't best By.
It wasn't best By. It was another record store. I'm
not gonna name because I don't know if the statue
imitation is up on this ship.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
So, but it was a record store.

Speaker 5 (55:38):
So he would just let me come in and I
gave him like five dollars and he would just let
me like grab whatever funk.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I wanted one of those.

Speaker 6 (55:45):
Records, mans records, right, let's talk about it.

Speaker 5 (55:50):
One of those records was Okay Computer and that was
my first introduction radio hit and ever since then I
was I was converted. But but nah, I remember Main Ingredient.
I bought Maine Ingredient, and honestly, Main Agreed was a
record for me. I didn't like I Gotta Love. Like
I heard the singer.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
I was just like Kanye said, that's his favorite song.

Speaker 6 (56:09):
No, that's no. Yeah, I'm like, bro, that is Everyone's.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Frowning in this room even though people had never heard.

Speaker 5 (56:18):
Everyone's like, yeah, I hate it, I Gotta love. But
but I still bought the record. I was like, let
me see and oh my god. But yeah, the interludes,
You're right, the interludes for that record were better than
a lot of the.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Same thing. Yeah, And to me, like, I feel like
I work ass backwards.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
I figured that interludes first, and then I match the
song to that interlude, and then you work on the groove,
and then you add the verses, and then the hook
is the afterthought. Like I work completely backwards from you know,
from how the average, That's how I used to do.

(56:57):
Now I'm thinking of what's your hook, what's the thing
that's going to stick? Which I almost feel like like
a dirty businessman for doing that.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Like, hey, you gotta make a living, brother, I mean,
but I think I think too. I mean what you're
doing to DJ.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
I imagine it would be kind of hard to not
be informed by that.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
You know what I'm because I.

Speaker 5 (57:17):
Remember one time I went to one of your I
think we did the thing over it.

Speaker 6 (57:21):
It was at the do Over in London.

Speaker 5 (57:23):
We were in London for the Olympics, right, and some
of the stuff you played with records that I would
not listen to, like you in my car or in
my life, but they totally killed the party. And I
mean they were good records, but you know they worked
in that setting.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
What I spend and what I listened to are just night,
night and day. What do you well? You don't DJ D? No? Okay,
Like what is your go to? I have to listen
to to get me through the day.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
I know people ask me I don't listen to a
lot of music. I'm the opposite of you don't.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
So you're too immersed in music.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
I feel like I go downstairs to my office at
nine am and I come out at six am. My
ears are just shot, and I just when I'm in
the car, I listen to like the news or comedy
most or Top forty because I feel like so often
that not when people are asking me to write something.
They're like, oh, it sounds like the new but tune,
so I have to know what that reference is.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
And I gotcha.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
And to my kids because they know them and I should.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
So are you listen because I do the same things.

Speaker 5 (58:23):
I will listen to like talk radio or NPR or
something like just to kind of cleanse or just kind
of decompress, you know what I mean. You say you
go downstairs in your office. Do you work from home?
Is that kind of your home base?

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (58:34):
I kind of move around. It depends on what the
day it is. Like it's either Sesame Street in Queens
or our studios on Fifth Street or record music.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Or I'm at in my basement.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
So do you have like a home studio just set
up just kind of do anything's up up?

Speaker 4 (58:48):
It's easy.

Speaker 5 (58:53):
How do you find your balance as a dad? And
or is there even a balance?

Speaker 1 (58:59):
I don't know. I mean, do your daughters control the
radio yet? Oh? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (59:03):
They They will pick certain songs and ask to stay
on certain channels. And my one daughter will move the
dial and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
She knows what she's So who controls the music in
the household? My kids?

Speaker 4 (59:14):
They it's it's pop radio. All the time in my house.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
What's the most adult intellectual thing they listen to on
pop radio?

Speaker 1 (59:22):
No? Just I mean, yeah, you ain't gonna find much yet.
I was listening to Beatles.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
At five, so yeah, my kids so. But it's also
the parents responsibility, I agree with. Do you let them
choose what they want to listen to?

Speaker 4 (59:34):
Yeah, I don't put it on them. I haven't yet.
But it's interesting because I did not have parents, but
both my parents are doctors, so clearly we have a
lot in common.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
And uh uh.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
My parents listened to like smooth My dad listened to
like Dave Sanborne, like smooth jazz all day long, wow,
and like like for real and uh and I was
a saxophone player and I was like no, and uh
uh yeah, like super smoothy. But they they didn't know music.
They still don't know me. They have no idea. So
like when I was a kid, all the cool kids
listened to like the Beatles and led Zeppelin and Pink

(01:00:07):
Floyd and like that was the thing in the very
white suburban neighborhood. I grew up on Long Island. Calm
down a fucking second before you judge me, And so
then it did not until later. You're shaking your head
because you feel for me. Okay, okay, my bad, so
and so now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
I'll tell you why I was shaking my head, but
go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:00:25):
So not until later, was was right right at high
schools ending in college was starting where it was like,
this is what you have to open up your head
a little bit. It's not just about these particular things.
And so then it became more of a like a
quest as as as opposed to as opposed to like
something being given to you, you know you have to
go and get it. And I thought that that part
of it was cool because it became a thing of discovery.

(01:00:46):
Like I didn't get into the Beatles until way after
I should have, and so when I finally did, I
was at a different place musically that it meant more
to me, and I was interested in very different things.

Speaker 5 (01:00:55):
I think you do have to kind of brainwash the
key I mean, at least I do. I mean you
got a brainwash them, because I mean they gonna get
brainwashed from other people. So at least, like when my music,
I was not punished, the only time I can remember
being even like something like kind of getting getting words
at me my granddad. I had Bigger and Death for

(01:01:18):
LL the second album. I had Bigger Deafer and I'm
Bad comes on and I had it playing and he
was in the room and oh my god, I ain't
met a motherfucker who could do that yet that one
l Lyric I had the same experience. Oh my god,
it was just the same thing. Yeah, that one that
you let it play. I let it play, but it

(01:01:38):
was it was too late, like I cut you. I
was on the other side of the earth and I
ran faster.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
And Carl Lewis and I ran yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
It was man and my grandad from neighborhood where what
was that tape at you listen to talking about motherfuckers
and my grand yo And I'm thinking about this now,
my granddad, because I know there's a link here. My
grandfather was a huge fan of that King Cole. That's
all he listened to.

Speaker 6 (01:02:11):
So if it wasn't that King Cole, he wasn't trying
to fuck with none of that ship.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
Were any rappers, any black men you're objected to listening
to it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
I was. He would my granddad every Christmas.

Speaker 5 (01:02:24):
He would bring out the Christmas album and he would
just sit us in the den and you just had
to listen to that and that was it. It wasn't no talking.
This is not up for discussion.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
It's not debate.

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
Utfo no nah, none of that no utfo.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Oh my god, no, none of that, none of that joint,
none of the Christmas records. It was all. It was
all that, King cole.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
My jazz education was kind of also asked backwards because
jazz was punishment in my household. Oh wow, like you
you were punished, Yeah, Like I feel like my parents
felt as though jazz music was a way to exercise
the prince demons out of me. So whenever, I mean,

(01:03:11):
my public telling of the amount of times I've gotten
punished for owning nineteen ninety nine is super legendary.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
But they would break the record.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
And then you know, it would be like no stereo
for two to three weeks, which is like a lifetime
to me. And the only thing I was allowed to
listen to was Christian radio and jazz music.

Speaker 6 (01:03:35):
And so usually it's like each your vegetables kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Yeah, So all my knowledge and my associations of all
those culturing songs Alabama and Love Supreme and the entire
Colturean plays the blues record is based on just the
fact that this is world music, not that Prince, you know.
I mean dad just thought like Prince was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
A dude that wore a diaper. Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
I mean he saw the Yeah No Midnight Special when
he's doing I Want to Be Alone. You know, boy,
don't you ever wear no diaper?

Speaker 5 (01:04:11):
Like and you know what, man, anything you say that
is like, I guess that's kind of where I'm at
now with my kids because my oldest son, he is
in the music.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
But the thing I will say about him is that
he listens to everything. He listens to.

Speaker 6 (01:04:25):
He'll listen to like Young Thug and Little Yachty.

Speaker 5 (01:04:30):
Like all the all the XXL cover dudes, but then
the Freshman covered dudes, he'll listen to them. But then
he'll listen to the Beatles, like he'll listen to And
that was the thing, Like when we were talking earlier,
you said the kids are more sophisticated, because I think
what it is now, like kids now they ain't got
a paper ship, so they can listen to everything.

Speaker 6 (01:04:52):
Like I remember buying music or stilling music back in.

Speaker 5 (01:04:55):
My day, Like you had to make a choice.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (01:04:59):
Even a choice of what the steal, you couldn't fit
all the ship in the bag.

Speaker 5 (01:05:01):
It's like I got to make a choice of them
steal today but back then. But now like kids, wait,
let's have another front race long.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Moment, tell us another story front.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Well, no, I mean you couldn't get caught stealing this ship?

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Nah, I never did. I never did.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
But it was because because they switched it up. They
switched you got called Steeland. Bill has the story.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
I got caught stealing when I was fourteen from Target.
I had Target.

Speaker 9 (01:05:28):
Target just came out like last year, right, I'm thirty six,
All right, this was this was ninety four.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
I used to every Friday.

Speaker 9 (01:05:37):
I would go to the mall and I had like
this big Charlotte hornet starter jacket with the pocket in
the front flap.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
You was mental or bad.

Speaker 9 (01:05:45):
I had this small pa because you know, you know
how they had the little plastic thing passic around the
plastic around it. So I would take them to take
the CD to the handicap bathroom, cut the plastic thing
off of it, open the CDs, tossed everything in the
trash and just walking.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
It was like a real thief. Yeah, handicap. You took
it too far. That should lasted for a good year.
Oh man, I didn't even do all that.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
See, all I did was like I just I didn't
even have like I had like a little key, like
my key, my mailbox key in my that went to
my in college, like you get your mailboxy. My mailbox
key was mad sharp. So all I would do is
just you know, beforehand, we would just like take them
and you just going to college. Yeah, this was like
I think it stop, but it was I didn't have

(01:06:29):
I didn't get my first computer until two thousand and
three four.

Speaker 6 (01:06:33):
So like that was when I got the computer.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Man, I.

Speaker 5 (01:06:39):
I would have got one, but by last one, I remember,
like you just opened a little joint because then they
started changing it and they would put the sensors inside
the CD coup.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
So then what you do, that's when I had the key.

Speaker 5 (01:06:50):
You just take the key and then you just get
the CD out and then you just leave the case
and put the case back up in So like if
I was still in a stero, it's like ever here
fucking you know everything. But the girl clear, no, no, no.

Speaker 7 (01:07:06):
I'm just saying that I'm not getting wrested with clear
but it was like the E section.

Speaker 6 (01:07:12):
I mean, who was who was popping at that time?

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Right? It was all at see. Okay, so what did
you get caught stealing? Well? How did you get caught?

Speaker 9 (01:07:21):
First off, Okay, I got caught because somebody came into
the bathroom like right after I did and saw all
the ship that I had thrown away in.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
And they snitched. Yeah, they snitched. So it was a
Storm employee. It was I don't think it was a
stor employe.

Speaker 9 (01:07:33):
It was probably like some woman and her child or
whatever walked in the titles and CDs. I stole LLL
scratched his first album.

Speaker 5 (01:07:39):
Wow, which was an EP. It was like where my Homies?
Like eight times it was like, where are my homies?

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Homies? Where my homies?

Speaker 9 (01:07:49):
At L scratched Keith Murray's Most Beautifulest Thing in the World.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Okay, TLC is crazy sexy, cool, all right? And the
one that is clown worthy Ray Carri's Christmas out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Oh right after that kid Cold right now?

Speaker 8 (01:08:06):
The cover though of that why.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
You're in the VHS section, Steve, You know what, Actually
I stole a steep.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
I stole I forgot I used to work.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
One of my biggest shames in life was that I
got fired from Sam Goodies.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
From Sam good you still, I know, like how what
I know?

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
It's like it's such a new brainer, right, I should
still be working at Sam Goodie right now.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
But yeah it was. It was January of eighty nine
and three ft high and rising by day. Last Soul
just came out and.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
I took the promo concept from the store and I
guess that's not.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Well, it's only one copy of it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
I guess the manager wanted it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
They called.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
They didn't call me out on it, but you know,
it's just like, all right, we're letting you go.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
A mire and I didn't say anything. I just walked away, defeated.
Then I started, I would get.

Speaker 6 (01:09:26):
Tier worth getting fired over. Yeah, that's that's if you're
gonna get fired.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
I wasn't better.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
But when we did have an in store for our
second album, do You Want More? Uh, I denied the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
The store uh doing an in store there? Instead? I
did a Tower Records. That's how Records. That's how bitter
I was.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
Yeah, I just wrote the music for a Tower Records documentary,
not just it was a long time ago that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
It's the one music documentary that you're not in that.
I did a five hour interview for Colin Hanks. You're
still not in that. I got put on the cutting
room floor.

Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
But you know that if you go to IMDb or
the first face I think that's there, it's the roll
and then you but you're not even in it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
You got hanked.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
I'm not bitter, though, not all.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
I didn't see the movie, Like, is it that it's
only Tower employees that were in it or no?

Speaker 4 (01:10:30):
I think I was like, yeah, no, buts in it
as well? Right, I think so yeah, yeah, I don't know.
He might have gotten other cuttingroom floor too.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
How is it? Is it good? I haven't seen?

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
I mean, but I spoke for like five hours and
and ain't usually.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Nothing was usable. Dang, my feelings were hurt. It's okay,
Well we've learned a lot here todayly and gentlemen. This
can go on forever. But I got my work cut
out for me today. Yeah you good, and you have
to give them a cut tomorrow. Oh okay.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Bill wants to like prepare this years and events. No,
Sean wants to prepare everything. Yeah, so I'm cool with right.
I know you guys are prepared. See, I keep responsible
people in my life because I am a slacker at
the heart.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
I feel you bro, Yeah, all right, well whole responsibility.

Speaker 5 (01:11:27):
And you know what, And that's it's very profound that
you say that, because I've been trying to explain that
people like it's like because they see you working.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Hard and they're like, man, you're going to get it.
You work really hard.

Speaker 5 (01:11:36):
And it's like the reason I'm working hard is because
I'm trying to get it. You know, I've officially got
it when you motherfuckers never see me again, you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Like that, Like that's when you know I've made it.

Speaker 5 (01:11:47):
Like when when you don't see me tweeting, we don't
see no Instagram with all that social media is over.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Oh Son, there's no such thing as disappearing. You know, think,
well you might get to do this and you're like, oh,
the two.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
Phone actually four?

Speaker 5 (01:12:01):
But yeah, wam so why so why would you need
full phone? Which one of these? Which one is the
whole phone?

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
And that that's what's supreme.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
That's the fifth one on behalf of our our new inductee,
Bill Sermon, uh, Bill Johnson Manel Coleman and your shoely
quest Love. We thank you very much. We pray that
you come back next time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
God Willie. Next one is that? Good night you go.
We come back next Yes see you later. West Love
Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite chose