October 17, 2024 • 52 mins
Rachel Goes Rogue is literally going rogue, but not before dropping a huge revelation about a new relationship that’s found its way into her life.
Join Rachel as she goes full circle and gives a final farewell to the podcast with the show’s first guest, Psychologist Dr. Hillary Goldsher and reflects on her journey with Juliette.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Rachel Go's Rogue. Welcome to this special edition
of Rachel Goes Rogue with your host Rachel Savannah Levis
today and joined by brilliant doctor Hilary Goldscher, who is
going to help me close out this final episode. Doctor
(00:26):
Goldscher is an expert in trauma recovery and emotional healing. Together,
we're going to be reflecting on my own personal growth
journey through this podcast and a path to finding peace,
especially as I close out this chapter and move on
(00:48):
to more balanced and healthier life. I've made the decision
to take both feet out of the vander Pump Rules
universe and focus on myself, focus on my life, my healing.
Doctor Goldsher was actually the first guest I had on
(01:09):
Rachel gos Rogue, and we dove into the psychology behind
why I was laughing through certain moments while talking about
my past, and since then, I've had so many incredible
guests join me. Throughout this podcasting experience. I've been able
to take away some amazing insight and tools to help
(01:32):
not only myself navigate the challenges in my life, but
to also share those things with you guys and hopefully
help you guys in your own life. I have decided
to walk away from continuing the podcast because I would
like to move on from, you know, having one foot
(01:52):
in the door of vander Pump Rules and one foot
out and choosing a life that is fully aligned in
my values and who I want to show up as
every single day. So I'll be focusing on myself, my healing,
and a new relationship that I'm in which we'll get
(02:14):
into when I talk to doctor Goldscher today. It is
a very full circle moment because doctor Goldshare is back
and she will help us explore how doing the inner
work can transform not only ourselves but also our relationships
and how we can continue to thrive after periods of
(02:35):
deep personal change. Whether you followed my story or are
navigating your own healing, this episode is all about embracing growth,
letting go of the past, and stepping into something new.
Thank you again for joining me today. You were my
(02:55):
first guest on Rachel Goes Rogue, and so it's just
very poetic and fitting that you are also my last guest,
and I do love hearing your insight and your knowledge
into personal development and what it really means to grow
as a person. So Welcome back to my podcast, Doctor Bolscher. Obviously,
(03:19):
I've spent the last year really dedicating myself to my
healing and my recovery, sharing my story, and it does
feel like I've come a long way. What are some
of the signs that someone has truly progressed in their
emotional healing journey.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Oh, that's such a good question.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
There are many, But the first thing that comes to mind,
I think is such a critical and sort of nuanced measure.
But the sign of healing is not an absence of
tricky feelings. It's not an absence of anger, confusion, insecurity, fear, anxiety.
We're human, We're going to have the feelings. A sign
(04:01):
of progress and healing is an ability to stand outside
of those feelings and narrate them, either for yourself or
the people around you. So example would be your feeling
anxious about how a romantic partner is showing up in
your dynamic, and instead of communicating it with fear and
(04:25):
anxiety and anger from that triggered place, you have an ability.
You've mobilized an approach that allows you to step outside
the feeling, approach the person and say I'm having these feelings,
I feel vulnerable. I feel afraid something's going on. Can
we create sort of a safe space to talk about it?
And so it's befriending your feelings, becoming more intimate with them,
(04:51):
and figuring out a way to communicate them that's honest
and vulnerable but is digestible.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Interesting. Yes, So as you're saying that, I'm thinking back
to one of the main lessons that I learned at
the Meadows, which was feel all of your emotions. And
there's no such thing as a bad emotion or a
negative emotion. There are just uncomfortable emotions or more challenging
emotions that could come up for some people like me
(05:20):
as anger. And so when you say you can come
from a place that's a little bit more removed and
noticing those feelings come up, and you can express and
communicate with the people around you in a way that
is not irrational and more like level headed. Would that
(05:40):
step take place after you felt your emotions completely, because
it seems like those are two separate things.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, I think it's it's really difficult to experience tricky,
trigger complex emotions and to immediately stand outside of them. Right,
Maybe sometimes we can curate like sort of that extra
resilience and be able to in real time say, WHOA,
(06:08):
I feel myself getting really angry. I feel myself getting
really frustrated. I feel like heat in my body. My
heart's beating fast. I want to take a deep breath
and see if I can say this to you in
a way that is palatable.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right, maybe, but.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
More often than not, it takes a process because feelings
become overwhelming and our sources of trigger. So the question
you're sort of concretely asking in such a good one
is yes, if we sense and our self becoming triggered
and overwhelmed and overcome by emotion, being able to identify
(06:43):
I'm in a triggered state, like, nothing wrong with these emotions.
It's okay to be angry, It's okay to be insecured,
it's okay to be vulnerable. It might not be fun,
but there's certainly human emotions that we all have and
don't want to suppress or shame ourselves for. But sort
of curating this ability to identify, Okay, these feelings are
coming up. I may not show up in a way
that I feel good about in this moment. As a result,
(07:05):
I'm triggered and I'm going to make a decision to
like walk away. You know, so that might mean communicating
to your partner, to your friend, your coworker, to a
person with whom you're in relation to, some version of like, ooh,
I feel myself getting frustrated, like I need to kind
of collect my thoughts and come back so we can
have a you know, connected discourse sort of thing. Yes, yes,
(07:27):
and that might mean lots of different things for different people,
but figuring out what helps you to kind of contain
your feelings allow you to look at them, talk about them,
process them in a safe manner with a therapist, through journaling,
through meditation, through a walk and self reflection. Right, it
could look different for different people. But then coming back
(07:49):
once you are able again, we all know when we're
standing in our emotions and standing outside our emotions. We
might not know it at the moment, but if we
get mindful about it, we can identify, like I'm in them,
I'm not able to stand outside of them and describe
them and narrate them. So when you're outside of those feelings,
being able to come back and say like like I
feel ready, now are you? And can we sort of
(08:11):
talk about this complex thing that just occurred between us.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yes, okay, yeah, it's so true. And I feel like
another important part about that, specifically like sharing those emotions
and a very rational way that is healthy, is being
surrounded by healthy people and choosing your group based off
of like, is this person a safe person for me
(08:35):
to share my experience? Are they going to be receiving
this in a way that is, you know, loving and
accepting and not trying to change me or getting angry
at me for having some trigger come up. I feel
like that's been something that I've had to learn the
hard way, and it was kind of scary, just like
(08:59):
closing that world that of friendship that I knew and
starting over and forming new friendships and really putting myself
out there and you know, making new friends and developing
those connections over the past year. One thing that I've
(09:19):
discovered with that is it's like night and day when
you have friends that want to hear how you're feeling
and want to get to know you for you and
are loving and accepting and aren't going to react in
a way that is going to minimize you as a person.
(09:42):
And through this time that I've had over the past
year and a half of being away from the show.
I now look at the show, and it's very disturbing
to me that that was my normal, those types of
friendships and the that people, you know, we would interact
(10:02):
with each other, because that's not actually obviously it's not healthy,
but it was my normal to me. And it's just
kind of crazy and eye opening that you don't have
to live that type of life. And I think a
lot of people may get hung up in that abuse cycle,
(10:26):
if you will, because they may not have the self esteem,
or they may not even be aware because it's just
so comfortable to them.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yes, I mean you said a lot of important things,
lots to unpack. We must always be on the lookout
for toxic dynamics in our relationships. And if you get
quiet and pay attention, you begin to realize that the
only solution to heal a toxic relationship is to leave.
(11:01):
You can't get strong enough to endure a toxic relationship.
You can't theoripize yourself enough to sort of endure it
or show up in a better or different way. The
only strategy is to leave it. If we're being mistreated
or toxically criticized, or there isn't room for complex feelings.
(11:22):
It's not a safe place to be vulnerable and evolve
and grow. And I think that's a common area of
paralysis for people, is the sense or the feeling or
the edict that like, if only, if only, if only
I could show up better, if only I could stay
more contained, if only I could be less triggered, if
(11:42):
only I could be less emotional. But if we're in
the face of toxic mistreatment, there's.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Really no such thing.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
We always get thwarted in our path of healing around
toxic dynamics.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
For what you said at the beginning of what you.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Just shared, and it's true that particularly people that have
a history of trauma, and there are all sorts of trauma,
intense traumas of abuse in childhood and throughout life, and
feelings of being ignored or dismissed, or having an edict
(12:18):
to suppress feelings. There's all sorts of ways people endure
a sense that they can't fully show up as themselves.
And you're right, oftentimes when there's toxic dynamics and people
are being mistreated, there's this sense, this sort of primitive
desire to get approved and seen and validated from the
very person who can't give it to them in a
(12:40):
misguided attempt to heal past trauma. So if only I
can get this person to love me, this person to
see me, this person to validate me, And it feels
so primitive and so hard to break away from. But
it's just what we call in my world sort of
a repetition compulsion, which is exactly what it sounds like,
a poll to repeat toxic dynamic in an effort to
(13:02):
get a different outcome. If we were abused as a child,
ignored as a child, went through another toxic abusive relationship,
we're wanting a different outcome in the face of those
same circumstances.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
But we have to make no mistake.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
The different outcome is us realizing that it's not safe,
us being able to mobilize resources and curate just enough
strength to go and then find resources to support you
in that time of intense vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It's not easy to walk away.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
It's not just like a cliche we can throw around
that like, hey, if someone's missting you, you've got to
be strong and take care of yourself. The act of
doing that can be quite complex for people. So when
people are listening to this knowing that the realization of
that is one part, but then curating the strength and
then the resources to support you as you do so
(13:56):
and in the aftermath is another. It's a process that
requires a lot of mindfulness of resources.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yes, definitely, definitely, And I feel like I was very
blessed that I was able to get the resources. Spending
ninety days at a recovery center is not something that
the average person gets the opportunity to do, especially with
like work and just the responsibilities of being an adult.
(14:23):
It's just not that realistic. But I was blessed enough
to be able to like have that as an option,
and I had the awareness enough that I needed to
like really figure this out for myself because it got
so bad. Basically, I got down to this place of
(14:43):
like complete and utter chaos in my life and a
realization that I really couldn't choose the best for myself.
And I realized also that the people that I was
trusting were not trustworthy people. Also, I was in denial
with a lot of those things too. So it's just
(15:05):
a lot of overwhelming emotions where you know, I started
shutting down. Meanwhile, the press and stuff was talking about
me every day. It was just too overwhelming, and I
was like, the only solution that really makes sense to
me right now is to like take some time away.
And I've said it before on this podcast, and I'll
(15:28):
just say it again because it's the final episode. I
knew I needed to stay longer to work out the
specifics of like this thing that the Meadows structured as
love addiction. And I say love addiction and air quotes
because it's basically another way of describing your attachment style.
(15:50):
So there's secure attachment style, there's avoidant, and there is
the anxious attachment style, and this is how you interact
with the people in your life. But specifically we mostly
talk about like significant others and that relationship. They also
used love addiction to demonstrate like the abuse cycle of
(16:14):
what it means to be in an abusive relationship and
how one person can act more of a like attached,
anxious person and then the other one would be more
repelled to that and become more avoidant and it would
become this cycle. And so when I talk about love
(16:35):
addiction on the podcast, like sometimes I feel like the
word addiction has a negative connotation, but it's something that
is basically saying it's a disease that is subconscious. I mean,
could you describe what addiction is for me because we've
(16:56):
talked about it a lot before on this podcast, but
to just get very clear on what that really means.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, I think in this context, because we're specifically talking
about the arena of as you put in air quotes
right like love, addiction, sex, addiction, how one shows up
in relationship dynamics, that addiction in this arena, I think
is best described as a dynamic that begins to interrupt
(17:25):
how you function in your daily life in the key
arenas that you're invested in and care about. So if
it's interrupting your ability to show up in personal, professional, logistical, spiritual, mental,
emotional arenas, if it's interrupting your ability to function in
a way that feels comfortable or with ease, then we're
(17:47):
probably looking at something that's outside of the normal range.
And if that's a pattern that continues and is consistent
and is chronic and continues to interrupt the flow of
your life and your ability to function in a way
that feels healthy and good, we may be looking at
an arena where the dynamic is getting to a level
of addiction where it's getting to play out in a
(18:09):
way that's consistently negatively impacting your life and how you
feel inside your skin.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah. So I did do a post recently, and basically
my caption for the post was the opposite of addiction
is connection, And I feel like that is something that
gets misunderstood unless you've kind of been exposed to someone
(18:38):
who has struggled with an addiction or have been in
the world of recovery, I guess, because most people would
think the opposite of addiction would be abstinence, but it's
actually connection with other people and healthy connection. You know.
I just want to hone in on the fact that
(18:59):
the people that you surround yourself with not to place
blame on anyone else, because now that I'm aware of
how I am as a person and how I do
end up becoming more alike the people that I surround
myself with, now I know better to choose the people
that I really do admire for the values that I
(19:21):
want to be more alike to surround myself with. And
before I was acting out of a place of you know,
like I wasn't self aware enough to know that, you know,
there were other reasons why I was choosing to put
myself in those positions. But I guess I just ask
people to give a little bit of grace, To give
(19:44):
as much grace as you would give to your best
friend who's going through something, and also realizing that you
can course correct at any point. Once you become aware,
you can kind of pivot and choose something new for yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yes, you've said so many things that are so important.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I want to unpack all of it, but I'll start
where you ended, which is yes, I mean to expand
that graceful, generous notion that we can all course correct, evolve,
gain insight, repair fractures at any time in our life
(20:28):
if we have humility and an ability to communicate and
take accountability. It is the most important, one of the
most important gifts we can give to each other, because
we all show up in ways that we don't feel
good about in micro and macro moments, and hopefully we
(20:49):
all give each other the grace to shift and change.
And particularly when people are doing a deep dive into
their own work and showing up with renewed perspectives and
renewed resolutions around how they want to take care of
themselves and others around them, it's critical to embrace that
(21:10):
with people that we love and people.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
In our community and in our world. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I mean that's I love that phrasing the renewed, the
renewed part of that, because it's reevaluating. Okay, this is
how I have been showing up, and this is how
I want to choose to show up. And you're renewing
the values that you are placing as how you want
to live your life every single day. And from that standpoint,
(21:39):
it's like, Wow, that person that has that awareness and
is willing to renew this life and live and show
up in a different way. I feel like that is
so empowering and so respectable.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I often talk about I do a lot of couple's work,
and I often talk about in couple's therapy that the
requirement of the significant other is not to never show
up in a way that doesn't feel good, but to
have the capacity and the bandwidth to explore what isn't
working and to shift and change and be open to evolve.
(22:18):
And I think that perspective is really helpful both for
one's partner and oneself, that the requirement isn't to get
it right every time, and sometimes we don't get it
right on a small level, and sometimes we don't get
it right on a large level. But to have the
capacity to say I don't like how I showed up,
and I want to understand why I showed up that
way and shift it and change it is a grace
(22:41):
that we have to give ourselves and each other. More So,
I think it's a really important thing to land on
in this conversation. And I wanted to go back to
what you said about connection and addiction. I just it
feels too important to leave. Which is that in the arena,
Because there's folks who deal with all different kinds of
(23:02):
addiction in various arenas and sort of levels. And you know,
abstinence for certain kind of addictions is the edict and
the road to healing for an alcoholic or a gambler
or a drug addict, right, I mean, abstinence is a
component of ultimate healing. But in the arena that you
(23:23):
were talking about, for example, like in eating disorders, which
can be a version of an addiction, or a love addiction,
or a sex addition, which can be a version of
an addiction, abstinence doesn't really make sense. We have to eat,
and in theory, we would like to have love in
our life, so absence doesn't make sense in that arena.
So it's a little bit of a different analysis. So
I wanted to make that distinction. But yes, I mean,
(23:45):
when you're talking about love addiction, so to speak. In
my view, just kind of from a clinical standpoint, I
like the idea you're offering that the opposite of that
is really to me first, connection to oneself. What do
I need to move through the world in a way
that makes me feel safe, makes me feel open, It
(24:06):
makes me feel like I can evaluate how I'm showing
up and shift and change as needed. Right, How can
I make myself available to myself and to those around
me and to my community, and to have an ability.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
To self advocate?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
These are my needs, These are my thoughts, these are
my feelings, And to seek folks, whether it's friends or
significant others, that have an ability to do the same,
to draw their own boundaries, to self advocate, but to
engage in like vulnerable complex discourse about like this didn't
work for me, This didn't feel good to me.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
How are you feeling? How are you feeling like.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
To get in sort of the messy bits of what
it's like to be in relation to each other. So
to me, the sort of opposite of addiction is some
cultivation of those skills you know to both take care
of oneself so you're short up enough to show up
in relationship to another self advocate and be available to
(25:03):
broker things that feel good for both sides, negotiate ways
of showing up that feel safe, and stay in it
when it gets hard.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Can we talk about bringing baggage into a new relationship
for a second, because I think as we get older,
we've had more life to live and more experiences, and
maybe there's a better term for it. But how do
we ensure we don't bring past baggage into something new
(25:42):
or is that just something that we have to accept.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I like a reframe of that concept, But of course
I know what you're getting it at. We all have
stuff that we bring into a relationship, whether those are
tendencies towards certain triggers, relationship histories that are liked or
embarrassing or less than ideal, broken relationships, broken marriages, kids, right,
(26:08):
So all of those things I suppose could fall under
the umbrella of baggage. But I like a reframe, which
is that no matter how old you are, you know
whether you're like eighteen and young in terms of years
or you're you know, in your seventies. You bring hurts
and wounds and tendencies towards triggers as I mentioned, and
(26:33):
also insights and ideas about hopefully about what you want
and what feels safe, and so trying to reframe it
in one's own mind, I think is useful. So instead
of coming to a relationship with like, oh gosh, how shameful,
how embarrassing. I don't want this person to see the painful, complex,
(26:54):
shameful things that I've been through, but instead being able
to talk about it first within yourself and then within
the context of a safe relationship of like, this is
what I've been through, this is what I've learned, These
are my triggers that I am responsible for watching out for,
and this is where I'm really strong and I really
(27:15):
show up in a way that I'm proud of and
being able to narrate those things without fear and without apology.
That doesn't mean it doesn't have gravity sometimes or a
somberness to it that like, hey, this is something I've
struggled with, or this is a truth about my past,
or this is something that I'm bringing into this relationship,
(27:36):
but again instead of coming with a sense of less
than being able to just talk about it as an
integrated part of who we are.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
We all have shadow sides, we all have dark sides.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
We all have things that we bring to relationships, and
we want to be with someone who's able to say, like,
I can hear that, I can tolerate it, I can
feel empathy for that. I too have my own stuff that,
when comfortable and safe, I can share. We want to
be able to and curate that mutual discourse.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
If that's ver.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
You're interested in, which in my view, is part of
a healthy relationship. And if we have someone that has
an immediate negative reaction and is unable to make space
for your story, that's a potential concern to explore further.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Definitely, I was talking to one of my girlfriends. We
were just touching base and catching up on life. She's
telling me about her relationship that she's in, and she
said that she has been feeling these triggers come up
for her and she's had to really like take a
look at them and get to the root of them
(28:49):
because she knows it's not just her significant other, it's
not his fault that these things are coming up within her,
and I commend her for like having that awareness and
being willing to look at it. And I asked her
if she had a therapist that she works on this
stuff with, and she said no, but she journals every
(29:09):
day and she feels like she can handle it on
her own, and she feels like she has been healing
in that way. And she's like, I really am grateful
for this relationship because I'm able to look at these
things that come up for me. Do you think the
purpose of relationships, or maybe it's just one of the
(29:30):
purposes of a relationship is for that person to be
a mirror for you to look at your own stuff
and the things that come up within you.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Well, I think that's definitely a worthy paradigm because it's
by definition true, and you can either kind of deny
it or suppress it, or be angry or triggered by it,
which by the way, we all are at moments, but
or try to figure out a way to embrace and
(30:00):
exactly as your friend is doing, to be curious about it,
like an investigative reporter, like like what are why that's
coming up for me? Like what what does that mean
to me? What does that remind me of? Is there
something in the past that feels the same? You know,
what is the need that's coming up underneath that? You
know what would I could put words to it that
(30:21):
were unfiltered, what would they be? Right? Getting really curious
about why a certain dynamic or certain words or certain
behaviors impact you, instead of feeling guilty or bad, or
instead of allowing it to motivate kind of a response
that repels your partner. All hard to do, but that's
(30:41):
kind of our aspirational goals, right, is to get curious
about it. And I think most people report that whether
it's a relationship they're still in a relationship of their past,
that when time has passed, that the relationship, even if
it was difficult or toxic and did, taught them something
(31:02):
about themselves and taught themselves, taught them something about what
they want in a future relationship. And though that's hard
to remember when you're feeling all the things and you
feel triggered or scared or anxious or insecure or whatever
the right words are, that seems to be a pretty
universal truth. So it's a good thing to keep in
mind intellectually, that like this is somehow happening for my
(31:24):
higher good, Like there's something in here for me, and
I may not know what it is now, and I
may not know what it is like next week or
next month, but in a year or two or whatever
the timeframe is, I'll come to understand something about myself
that I wouldn't have otherwise. So I think it's a
really important perspective and, like I said, a hard one
to hang on to when you're in the middle of it,
(31:44):
but a good grounding principle when you feel like you're
floating a little bit without a life raft.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, it's so true. So my podcast Rachel goes Through
At first it was kind of like me defending myself,
and then it it turned into something more of me
giving my I guess the things that I've learned through
my recovery experience and sharing that with other people so
that they can take the things that serve them and
(32:15):
hopefully choose something healthier and better in their lives. When
I started getting feedback that it was helpful for people
like that was so rewarding for me, and so it
kind of turned into like a podcast about relationships. And
I didn't plan out for it to be that way,
(32:35):
but it kind of just turned into that, and I
have been considering sharing this for a little while, but
I've also have a new value of keeping things sacred
to me and not sharing my whole life publicly the
way that I have for the past ten years. I
(32:56):
have considered keeping this private and sacred to me, but
I actually, do you think that it's fitting to share
with the listeners of Rachel Goes Rogue since this has
kind of turned into a podcast about healthy relationships and
healthy friendships. I am in a new relationship and it's
(33:21):
very healthy, and he's very normal. And every time I
describe him to my friends and I say that he's normal,
and I show them a photo of him and they're like, wow,
he does like normal. It's such like an accomplishment. It
feels like because given my dating history, like normal was
(33:44):
not necessarily something that I was looking for in somebody else.
He's just such a supportive person and I just feel
really happy. So I did want to share that with
you guys, And I do feel like it serves the
purpose in being an example that when you do course
(34:08):
correct and choose a different lifestyle for yourself and prioritize
different things in your life and really take those moments
and days and weeks and months and maybe even a
year and focusing on your self development and personal growth
(34:29):
and kind of put all that energy back into yourself.
Then you really will begin to heal and you'll begin
to attract a different caliber of person because you are
healing yourself from within, and that's going to be reflected
(34:50):
back to you and the type of people that you
attract into your life. And so I guess that would
be my advice, and the reason why I'm choosing to
share it with you guys now with the permission of
my significant other, is because I don't know. I think
that it is a success story and there is hope
(35:13):
for the people that are listening who are struggling with
relationships and really can't quite see the light at the
end of the tunnel. Yet I hope to be that
light for you.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
It's so nice to hear you provide that update, and
I think making all the connections that your attempting to
communicate is really important. That look, it's not a linear journey,
and everyone's journey looks completely different, So don't compare yourself
(35:49):
to other journeys, But take hold of the components that
Rachel is outlining, which is that if you stop and
get quiet and try to figure out what is motivating
feelings that are uncomfortable, what is motivating behavior that is
not desirable, What is contributing to your life and or
(36:10):
your relationships not feeling okay or not feeling safe, This
work leads to important insights and usually important expansions, which
leads to showing up differently, which leads to your energy shifting.
Doesn't mean you're a different person, doesn't mean you're not
at the core you, but it does mean that you're
showing up in a way that is rooted in more
(36:31):
self love, in more self awareness. And it is accurate
to hypothesize that as a result, the people who are
attracted to that kind of energy will tend to match
that kind of energy through their own ways of moving
through the world, through their own work. And I think
that's what you're talking about that feels so critical and
hopefully super relatable to people. So when you're stuck and
(36:55):
in like the bits where it feels like, oh gosh,
how do I get out? And nothing feels right and
nothing feels good, that the journey to healing typically begins
by like slowing down and getting fly it and Rachel,
you alluded to the fact that you had the you know,
the opportunity to go to a wonderful program and surround
yourself with guides and supporters and clinicians that helped you
(37:20):
on your journey, which is amazing. But there are many
other ways to do that, Like you alluded to your
friend who's figuring out a way to do it through
journaling and self reflection. There's meditation, there's books, there's your
friend group, there's low fie therapy that you can google
in your community. In most communities, there's online therapy services
(37:41):
like Betterhelp, et cetera that provide low fee counseling as well,
So there are ways to sort of get started to
begin the kind of reflection that you're talking about, which
often is a tipping point to life feeling differently.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, I think that's a really great place to kind
of wrap this ups stowed up. I do feel like
I'm walking away from this podcast with a lot more
clarity and peace and doctor culture. I guess my last
question for you would be how can people ensure that
they can achieve milestones and they're healing journey as they
(38:18):
continue to nurture their well being and emotional growth.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Yeah, that's a big one. Stay with it, and that
might sound sort of obvious or cliche, but it's messy
and sometimes slow and emotional and confusing and anxiety provoking
and depressing and frustrating. Doing deep work to explore why
(38:44):
your life or relationships aren't working as hard and so
you kind of got to stay with it because particularly
the beginning can feel really muddy and really hard to
push through. Curate resources. I mentioned a bunch just now,
but whatever that means in your world, whether it's friendships
or family members or meditation or your journal, therapy, etc.
(39:09):
Find ways, people, individuals, materials, resources that support you because
a journey alone is a lot more painful and difficult
in isolating than one in community whatever that community means.
And vulnerability, you know, continuing to take the risk of
(39:30):
being honest with yourself, which can lead to pain and
sort of intense feelings of confusion. But it's really the
only path towards the light and opening and expansion is
to get vulnerable and sort of real with yourself. We
all have stuff, and so when we start to excavate
(39:53):
and look at parts of ourselves that we don't feel
good about our product. That's just being human, that's not
being bad or broken.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
We all have it. So just knowing you're part.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Of a larger mission that every human who's open and
willing will have a version of the same journey or
not alone.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, it's so true. And I think also just circling
back to the reframing of the baggage too, we all
experience life in a unique way. No two people have
had the same life experience, and as we go through
(40:35):
these experiences, they do form us and shape us into
the people that you see. If you do reframe baggage
as just like life experience, then I really don't think
that it's a negative thing at all. I think, yeah,
there may be some triggers that come up based off
(40:56):
of experiences that may not have been the most positive
or rewarding, But if you can work through those and
find people in your life that are willing to work
through those experiences and those triggers with you, then that's
all you could ever ask for. And you know, there
(41:17):
really isn't anything shameful about it.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I think that's it. That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
And it's the complex but like beautiful realization that I
think is a ubiquitous part of healing that like these
tricky parts of us are not shameful, They're superhuman and
shared with every person sitting around you and that you see.
And so if you can come to that like deep
(41:45):
understanding inside of yourself, you can then offer it to
those around you, and it changes how you move through
hard times, and that changes how you experience life.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
And so it's a it's a.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Really critical component to continue to like consider and integrate.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Thank you so much, doctor Golcher for coming on the
final episode of Rachel Goes Rogue.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Well, thank you for having me at you know, different
seasons of your journey.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Wow, that was a great episode and definitely a full
circle moment. How do you How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yes, I would love to take a moment to reflect
on how far I've come since starting this podcast with
you guys, iHeart and Juliette. This has really been like
a full circle moment and just like knowing truly what
i want, what I'm advocating for as my own person,
(42:57):
and I'm so grateful for everyone who has been part
of this journey with me, and to those of you
who have supported me by listening to my story, I
thank you so much. It's means so much to me
to be heard, and even to those who have challenged me,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
So. I mean, this is a big, wide question, but
tell me something that you're most proud of, because I
remember when you started this you were very excited to
do it, then you were hesitant to do it. It
was a very emotional rollercoaster at the beginning. It almost
didn't happen if you recall. But now I feel personally
you've achieved so much. But what are you most proud of?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
I'm most proud of, Gosh, just showing up and sharing
my story and being vulnerable with people who have taken
what I've shared and it's impacted their life in a
positive way, Like even if it is just one person,
just hearing that from someone has been so rewarding to me.
(44:00):
I think I'm most part of the growth and the
resilience I do know, like how strong I am now.
And I am also really proud of choosing now to
end the podcast and to move on as well. I
think that's a huge decision. It really is like a
(44:21):
huge full circle moment for me, and I don't know
if it makes sense, but I think for the friends
and family closest to me, they know me best, and
as I end this podcast, it really does symbolize something
monumental in my life and that is probably like the
(44:46):
most rewarding part of it all.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
And what about this is a tough one because I'm
sure there's a lot, But what is something that you
think you learn most about yourself through this experience.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
I'm I'm a very resilient person. I've learned that I
do have the ability to host my own podcast. I
never thought that would be a possibility before. Tuning out
the noise and getting quiet and listening to myself from
(45:20):
within is a skill that is difficult to do in
today's day and age, with social media and everything. But
this process has shown me that I am capable of
doing that as well, and staying true to myself and
being willing to choose something that is unknown and take
(45:43):
a risk and hope for the best and work hard
and hopefully it pays off in the end. And I
feel like the decision to do that with this podcast
has definitely paid off in more ways than one with
my personal development journey. It was the perfect thing for
me at that time.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
I think those are really great. I remember you saying
from the very beginning that just public speaking was something
you struggled with your whole life, and you did. You
even started the reality show or you know, being on
it for one of those reasons.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
And now you.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Hosted a podcast for a year on yourself, by yourself,
with yourself, So I agree that's something should be very
proud of. And then you were at the absolute lowest point.
You took more abuse publicly than most talent out there, right,
and you really shared it. You shared vulnerability. You show
(46:41):
people how to get through it, and you beat it
and overcame it. So I think those are some other
things that to learn something about yourself you really can
and hopefully you don't have to, but you really can
and have overcome some very mean and criticizing scenarios, and
you know, you did it with a smile and you
(47:01):
did it with some tears, and you shared those in
those vulnerability with people, and I think that you should
be very proud of that. And I'm sure you learned
a lot, like you said about resilience for that things.
So what is something you would say now to your
harshest critic.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Okay, so I think my harshest critics probably come from
a place of concern and love at the end of
the day, or that's how I choose to look at it.
I think the people that give me a hard time
for doing this podcast, they may be concerned that I
haven't really grown the way that they would hope that
(47:38):
I would have by now. I'm not sure. I'm not
sure it will drive you crazy trying to wrap your
head around it, but I would say to my harshest critic,
thank you anyway for engaging and being a part of
this journey too, because it can't just all be rainbows
and sunshine. There are going to be people out there
(48:01):
that are willing to give you a reality check and
it encourages you to really like focus in and reflect
on yourself and see, like, is what they're saying true
or are they just missing something that maybe this could
be an opportunity for me to elaborate on so that
(48:22):
they could get more clarity on the situation. Because I
think that's one of the difficult things about living in
the digital age. You know you're not going to get
the full picture, and we can only do so much
to convey what the reality of the situation is. And
then obviously there's going to be people that disagree with
(48:42):
whatever you do, no matter what you do. So reminding
myself to be true to who I am, and you know, like,
I'm not setting out to try to pease anyone or
get anyone to like me. Those days are over. I'm
just trying to like show up as myself and if
you vibe with them, awesome. If you don't, then fine,
(49:04):
let it be known, and then it's very clear who
is right for me in my life moving forward.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
That was very well said. So this is a weird question.
Have you forgiven yourself?
Speaker 1 (49:18):
I remember Bethany Frankel asking me this question when I
went on her podcast before I started Rachel gos Rogue,
and the answer was yes, I do forgive myself and
I stand by that today a year A year later.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
Okay, So to me, just right off the bat, I
see a healthier, happier for your young woman. You're more
self aware, you're more accepting, you're more confident. And I
don't want to sound condescending. I just you should be
really proud. You should be proud of what you went
through came out the other side, and I think that
that is definitely a role model to other young women
(49:54):
and other people that are going to be going through
whether they're in entertainment or not, and they encounter some
thing where I mean, look, yours happened to be because
of television. I think for you to be able to
come on the other side as whole and healthy as
you are, I do think you should be proud, and
I think people should look up to you for that
(50:15):
and and being vulnerable on this podcast sharing your toughest
moments with people. I'd have less choice words for your
biggest critics, so I would. I would most people would,
but that's just not me.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
I know.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I know my mom would have some other things to
say to my worst critics as well. Well.
Speaker 4 (50:40):
I think that you have some very exciting stages of
your life to look up into now, and you know,
your friends, your family, your new bo I mean, I
really am so excited for you, and I know that
everybody wishes you well and this is going to be
exciting to see what happens next.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
For Rachel Loves, It's been an absolute pleasure and something
that I would not have imagined in my wildest dreams
that I would be hosting a podcast, and sometimes realizing
that and then realizing all of the hardships that have
led myself to feel like this was the only way forward.
(51:21):
Doing this podcast or the best solution to the problems
that I was facing makes me grateful for all of
the hardships, even though, like some of the things, it's
not humane and it's not right, and that's why it's
(51:42):
so important for me to speak out about it because
there should be change. But I am grateful for everything
that's happened in my life so far because it has
pushed me to become the person that would be willing
to host my own podcast. Not only that, but like
do it for an extended amount of time and to
(52:03):
see the bigger picture with it and to connect with
people in the way that they need. And so in
that way, it's been the most rewarding thing that I
have accomplished so far in my career. Thank you so
much for listening to Rachel Goes Rogue. Follow us on
(52:26):
Instagram and TikTok for exclusive video content at Rachel Goes
Rogue Podcast.
This is Rachel Go's Rogue. Welcome to this special edition
of Rachel Goes Rogue with your host Rachel Savannah Levis
today and joined by brilliant doctor Hilary Goldscher, who is
going to help me close out this final episode. Doctor
(00:26):
Goldscher is an expert in trauma recovery and emotional healing. Together,
we're going to be reflecting on my own personal growth
journey through this podcast and a path to finding peace,
especially as I close out this chapter and move on
(00:48):
to more balanced and healthier life. I've made the decision
to take both feet out of the vander Pump Rules
universe and focus on myself, focus on my life, my healing.
Doctor Goldsher was actually the first guest I had on
(01:09):
Rachel gos Rogue, and we dove into the psychology behind
why I was laughing through certain moments while talking about
my past, and since then, I've had so many incredible
guests join me. Throughout this podcasting experience. I've been able
to take away some amazing insight and tools to help
(01:32):
not only myself navigate the challenges in my life, but
to also share those things with you guys and hopefully
help you guys in your own life. I have decided
to walk away from continuing the podcast because I would
like to move on from, you know, having one foot
(01:52):
in the door of vander Pump Rules and one foot
out and choosing a life that is fully aligned in
my values and who I want to show up as
every single day. So I'll be focusing on myself, my healing,
and a new relationship that I'm in which we'll get
(02:14):
into when I talk to doctor Goldscher today. It is
a very full circle moment because doctor Goldshare is back
and she will help us explore how doing the inner
work can transform not only ourselves but also our relationships
and how we can continue to thrive after periods of
(02:35):
deep personal change. Whether you followed my story or are
navigating your own healing, this episode is all about embracing growth,
letting go of the past, and stepping into something new.
Thank you again for joining me today. You were my
(02:55):
first guest on Rachel Goes Rogue, and so it's just
very poetic and fitting that you are also my last guest,
and I do love hearing your insight and your knowledge
into personal development and what it really means to grow
as a person. So Welcome back to my podcast, Doctor Bolscher. Obviously,
(03:19):
I've spent the last year really dedicating myself to my
healing and my recovery, sharing my story, and it does
feel like I've come a long way. What are some
of the signs that someone has truly progressed in their
emotional healing journey.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Oh, that's such a good question.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
There are many, But the first thing that comes to mind,
I think is such a critical and sort of nuanced measure.
But the sign of healing is not an absence of
tricky feelings. It's not an absence of anger, confusion, insecurity, fear, anxiety.
We're human, We're going to have the feelings. A sign
(04:01):
of progress and healing is an ability to stand outside
of those feelings and narrate them, either for yourself or
the people around you. So example would be your feeling
anxious about how a romantic partner is showing up in
your dynamic, and instead of communicating it with fear and
(04:25):
anxiety and anger from that triggered place, you have an ability.
You've mobilized an approach that allows you to step outside
the feeling, approach the person and say I'm having these feelings,
I feel vulnerable. I feel afraid something's going on. Can
we create sort of a safe space to talk about it?
And so it's befriending your feelings, becoming more intimate with them,
(04:51):
and figuring out a way to communicate them that's honest
and vulnerable but is digestible.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Interesting. Yes, So as you're saying that, I'm thinking back
to one of the main lessons that I learned at
the Meadows, which was feel all of your emotions. And
there's no such thing as a bad emotion or a
negative emotion. There are just uncomfortable emotions or more challenging
emotions that could come up for some people like me
(05:20):
as anger. And so when you say you can come
from a place that's a little bit more removed and
noticing those feelings come up, and you can express and
communicate with the people around you in a way that
is not irrational and more like level headed. Would that
(05:40):
step take place after you felt your emotions completely, because
it seems like those are two separate things.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, I think it's it's really difficult to experience tricky,
trigger complex emotions and to immediately stand outside of them. Right,
Maybe sometimes we can curate like sort of that extra
resilience and be able to in real time say, WHOA,
(06:08):
I feel myself getting really angry. I feel myself getting
really frustrated. I feel like heat in my body. My
heart's beating fast. I want to take a deep breath
and see if I can say this to you in
a way that is palatable.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right, maybe, but.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
More often than not, it takes a process because feelings
become overwhelming and our sources of trigger. So the question
you're sort of concretely asking in such a good one
is yes, if we sense and our self becoming triggered
and overwhelmed and overcome by emotion, being able to identify
(06:43):
I'm in a triggered state, like, nothing wrong with these emotions.
It's okay to be angry, It's okay to be insecured,
it's okay to be vulnerable. It might not be fun,
but there's certainly human emotions that we all have and
don't want to suppress or shame ourselves for. But sort
of curating this ability to identify, Okay, these feelings are
coming up. I may not show up in a way
that I feel good about in this moment. As a result,
(07:05):
I'm triggered and I'm going to make a decision to
like walk away. You know, so that might mean communicating
to your partner, to your friend, your coworker, to a
person with whom you're in relation to, some version of like, ooh,
I feel myself getting frustrated, like I need to kind
of collect my thoughts and come back so we can
have a you know, connected discourse sort of thing. Yes, yes,
(07:27):
and that might mean lots of different things for different people,
but figuring out what helps you to kind of contain
your feelings allow you to look at them, talk about them,
process them in a safe manner with a therapist, through journaling,
through meditation, through a walk and self reflection. Right, it
could look different for different people. But then coming back
(07:49):
once you are able again, we all know when we're
standing in our emotions and standing outside our emotions. We
might not know it at the moment, but if we
get mindful about it, we can identify, like I'm in them,
I'm not able to stand outside of them and describe
them and narrate them. So when you're outside of those feelings,
being able to come back and say like like I
feel ready, now are you? And can we sort of
(08:11):
talk about this complex thing that just occurred between us.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yes, okay, yeah, it's so true. And I feel like
another important part about that, specifically like sharing those emotions
and a very rational way that is healthy, is being
surrounded by healthy people and choosing your group based off
of like, is this person a safe person for me
(08:35):
to share my experience? Are they going to be receiving
this in a way that is, you know, loving and
accepting and not trying to change me or getting angry
at me for having some trigger come up. I feel
like that's been something that I've had to learn the
hard way, and it was kind of scary, just like
(08:59):
closing that world that of friendship that I knew and
starting over and forming new friendships and really putting myself
out there and you know, making new friends and developing
those connections over the past year. One thing that I've
(09:19):
discovered with that is it's like night and day when
you have friends that want to hear how you're feeling
and want to get to know you for you and
are loving and accepting and aren't going to react in
a way that is going to minimize you as a person.
(09:42):
And through this time that I've had over the past
year and a half of being away from the show.
I now look at the show, and it's very disturbing
to me that that was my normal, those types of
friendships and the that people, you know, we would interact
(10:02):
with each other, because that's not actually obviously it's not healthy,
but it was my normal to me. And it's just
kind of crazy and eye opening that you don't have
to live that type of life. And I think a
lot of people may get hung up in that abuse cycle,
(10:26):
if you will, because they may not have the self esteem,
or they may not even be aware because it's just
so comfortable to them.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yes, I mean you said a lot of important things,
lots to unpack. We must always be on the lookout
for toxic dynamics in our relationships. And if you get
quiet and pay attention, you begin to realize that the
only solution to heal a toxic relationship is to leave.
(11:01):
You can't get strong enough to endure a toxic relationship.
You can't theoripize yourself enough to sort of endure it
or show up in a better or different way. The
only strategy is to leave it. If we're being mistreated
or toxically criticized, or there isn't room for complex feelings.
(11:22):
It's not a safe place to be vulnerable and evolve
and grow. And I think that's a common area of
paralysis for people, is the sense or the feeling or
the edict that like, if only, if only, if only
I could show up better, if only I could stay
more contained, if only I could be less triggered, if
(11:42):
only I could be less emotional. But if we're in
the face of toxic mistreatment, there's.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Really no such thing.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
We always get thwarted in our path of healing around
toxic dynamics.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
For what you said at the beginning of what you.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Just shared, and it's true that particularly people that have
a history of trauma, and there are all sorts of trauma,
intense traumas of abuse in childhood and throughout life, and
feelings of being ignored or dismissed, or having an edict
(12:18):
to suppress feelings. There's all sorts of ways people endure
a sense that they can't fully show up as themselves.
And you're right, oftentimes when there's toxic dynamics and people
are being mistreated, there's this sense, this sort of primitive
desire to get approved and seen and validated from the
very person who can't give it to them in a
(12:40):
misguided attempt to heal past trauma. So if only I
can get this person to love me, this person to
see me, this person to validate me, And it feels
so primitive and so hard to break away from. But
it's just what we call in my world sort of
a repetition compulsion, which is exactly what it sounds like,
a poll to repeat toxic dynamic in an effort to
(13:02):
get a different outcome. If we were abused as a child,
ignored as a child, went through another toxic abusive relationship,
we're wanting a different outcome in the face of those
same circumstances.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
But we have to make no mistake.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
The different outcome is us realizing that it's not safe,
us being able to mobilize resources and curate just enough
strength to go and then find resources to support you
in that time of intense vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It's not easy to walk away.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
It's not just like a cliche we can throw around
that like, hey, if someone's missting you, you've got to
be strong and take care of yourself. The act of
doing that can be quite complex for people. So when
people are listening to this knowing that the realization of
that is one part, but then curating the strength and
then the resources to support you as you do so
(13:56):
and in the aftermath is another. It's a process that
requires a lot of mindfulness of resources.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yes, definitely, definitely, And I feel like I was very
blessed that I was able to get the resources. Spending
ninety days at a recovery center is not something that
the average person gets the opportunity to do, especially with
like work and just the responsibilities of being an adult.
(14:23):
It's just not that realistic. But I was blessed enough
to be able to like have that as an option,
and I had the awareness enough that I needed to
like really figure this out for myself because it got
so bad. Basically, I got down to this place of
(14:43):
like complete and utter chaos in my life and a
realization that I really couldn't choose the best for myself.
And I realized also that the people that I was
trusting were not trustworthy people. Also, I was in denial
with a lot of those things too. So it's just
(15:05):
a lot of overwhelming emotions where you know, I started
shutting down. Meanwhile, the press and stuff was talking about
me every day. It was just too overwhelming, and I
was like, the only solution that really makes sense to
me right now is to like take some time away.
And I've said it before on this podcast, and I'll
(15:28):
just say it again because it's the final episode. I
knew I needed to stay longer to work out the
specifics of like this thing that the Meadows structured as
love addiction. And I say love addiction and air quotes
because it's basically another way of describing your attachment style.
(15:50):
So there's secure attachment style, there's avoidant, and there is
the anxious attachment style, and this is how you interact
with the people in your life. But specifically we mostly
talk about like significant others and that relationship. They also
used love addiction to demonstrate like the abuse cycle of
(16:14):
what it means to be in an abusive relationship and
how one person can act more of a like attached,
anxious person and then the other one would be more
repelled to that and become more avoidant and it would
become this cycle. And so when I talk about love
(16:35):
addiction on the podcast, like sometimes I feel like the
word addiction has a negative connotation, but it's something that
is basically saying it's a disease that is subconscious. I mean,
could you describe what addiction is for me because we've
(16:56):
talked about it a lot before on this podcast, but
to just get very clear on what that really means.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, I think in this context, because we're specifically talking
about the arena of as you put in air quotes
right like love, addiction, sex, addiction, how one shows up
in relationship dynamics, that addiction in this arena, I think
is best described as a dynamic that begins to interrupt
(17:25):
how you function in your daily life in the key
arenas that you're invested in and care about. So if
it's interrupting your ability to show up in personal, professional, logistical, spiritual, mental,
emotional arenas, if it's interrupting your ability to function in
a way that feels comfortable or with ease, then we're
(17:47):
probably looking at something that's outside of the normal range.
And if that's a pattern that continues and is consistent
and is chronic and continues to interrupt the flow of
your life and your ability to function in a way
that feels healthy and good, we may be looking at
an arena where the dynamic is getting to a level
of addiction where it's getting to play out in a
(18:09):
way that's consistently negatively impacting your life and how you
feel inside your skin.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah. So I did do a post recently, and basically
my caption for the post was the opposite of addiction
is connection, And I feel like that is something that
gets misunderstood unless you've kind of been exposed to someone
(18:38):
who has struggled with an addiction or have been in
the world of recovery, I guess, because most people would
think the opposite of addiction would be abstinence, but it's
actually connection with other people and healthy connection. You know.
I just want to hone in on the fact that
(18:59):
the people that you surround yourself with not to place
blame on anyone else, because now that I'm aware of
how I am as a person and how I do
end up becoming more alike the people that I surround
myself with, now I know better to choose the people
that I really do admire for the values that I
(19:21):
want to be more alike to surround myself with. And
before I was acting out of a place of you know,
like I wasn't self aware enough to know that, you know,
there were other reasons why I was choosing to put
myself in those positions. But I guess I just ask
people to give a little bit of grace, To give
(19:44):
as much grace as you would give to your best
friend who's going through something, and also realizing that you
can course correct at any point. Once you become aware,
you can kind of pivot and choose something new for yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yes, you've said so many things that are so important.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I want to unpack all of it, but I'll start
where you ended, which is yes, I mean to expand
that graceful, generous notion that we can all course correct, evolve,
gain insight, repair fractures at any time in our life
(20:28):
if we have humility and an ability to communicate and
take accountability. It is the most important, one of the
most important gifts we can give to each other, because
we all show up in ways that we don't feel
good about in micro and macro moments, and hopefully we
(20:49):
all give each other the grace to shift and change.
And particularly when people are doing a deep dive into
their own work and showing up with renewed perspectives and
renewed resolutions around how they want to take care of
themselves and others around them, it's critical to embrace that
(21:10):
with people that we love and people.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
In our community and in our world. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I mean that's I love that phrasing the renewed, the
renewed part of that, because it's reevaluating. Okay, this is
how I have been showing up, and this is how
I want to choose to show up. And you're renewing
the values that you are placing as how you want
to live your life every single day. And from that standpoint,
(21:39):
it's like, Wow, that person that has that awareness and
is willing to renew this life and live and show
up in a different way. I feel like that is
so empowering and so respectable.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I often talk about I do a lot of couple's work,
and I often talk about in couple's therapy that the
requirement of the significant other is not to never show
up in a way that doesn't feel good, but to
have the capacity and the bandwidth to explore what isn't
working and to shift and change and be open to evolve.
(22:18):
And I think that perspective is really helpful both for
one's partner and oneself, that the requirement isn't to get
it right every time, and sometimes we don't get it
right on a small level, and sometimes we don't get
it right on a large level. But to have the
capacity to say I don't like how I showed up,
and I want to understand why I showed up that
way and shift it and change it is a grace
(22:41):
that we have to give ourselves and each other. More So,
I think it's a really important thing to land on
in this conversation. And I wanted to go back to
what you said about connection and addiction. I just it
feels too important to leave. Which is that in the arena,
Because there's folks who deal with all different kinds of
(23:02):
addiction in various arenas and sort of levels. And you know,
abstinence for certain kind of addictions is the edict and
the road to healing for an alcoholic or a gambler
or a drug addict, right, I mean, abstinence is a
component of ultimate healing. But in the arena that you
(23:23):
were talking about, for example, like in eating disorders, which
can be a version of an addiction, or a love addiction,
or a sex addition, which can be a version of
an addiction, abstinence doesn't really make sense. We have to eat,
and in theory, we would like to have love in
our life, so absence doesn't make sense in that arena.
So it's a little bit of a different analysis. So
I wanted to make that distinction. But yes, I mean,
(23:45):
when you're talking about love addiction, so to speak. In
my view, just kind of from a clinical standpoint, I
like the idea you're offering that the opposite of that
is really to me first, connection to oneself. What do
I need to move through the world in a way
that makes me feel safe, makes me feel open, It
(24:06):
makes me feel like I can evaluate how I'm showing
up and shift and change as needed. Right, How can
I make myself available to myself and to those around
me and to my community, and to have an ability.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
To self advocate?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
These are my needs, These are my thoughts, these are
my feelings, And to seek folks, whether it's friends or
significant others, that have an ability to do the same,
to draw their own boundaries, to self advocate, but to
engage in like vulnerable complex discourse about like this didn't
work for me, This didn't feel good to me.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
How are you feeling? How are you feeling like.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
To get in sort of the messy bits of what
it's like to be in relation to each other. So
to me, the sort of opposite of addiction is some
cultivation of those skills you know to both take care
of oneself so you're short up enough to show up
in relationship to another self advocate and be available to
(25:03):
broker things that feel good for both sides, negotiate ways
of showing up that feel safe, and stay in it
when it gets hard.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Can we talk about bringing baggage into a new relationship
for a second, because I think as we get older,
we've had more life to live and more experiences, and
maybe there's a better term for it. But how do
we ensure we don't bring past baggage into something new
(25:42):
or is that just something that we have to accept.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I like a reframe of that concept, But of course
I know what you're getting it at. We all have
stuff that we bring into a relationship, whether those are
tendencies towards certain triggers, relationship histories that are liked or
embarrassing or less than ideal, broken relationships, broken marriages, kids, right,
(26:08):
So all of those things I suppose could fall under
the umbrella of baggage. But I like a reframe, which
is that no matter how old you are, you know
whether you're like eighteen and young in terms of years
or you're you know, in your seventies. You bring hurts
and wounds and tendencies towards triggers as I mentioned, and
(26:33):
also insights and ideas about hopefully about what you want
and what feels safe, and so trying to reframe it
in one's own mind, I think is useful. So instead
of coming to a relationship with like, oh gosh, how shameful,
how embarrassing. I don't want this person to see the painful, complex,
(26:54):
shameful things that I've been through, but instead being able
to talk about it first within yourself and then within
the context of a safe relationship of like, this is
what I've been through, this is what I've learned, These
are my triggers that I am responsible for watching out for,
and this is where I'm really strong and I really
(27:15):
show up in a way that I'm proud of and
being able to narrate those things without fear and without apology.
That doesn't mean it doesn't have gravity sometimes or a
somberness to it that like, hey, this is something I've
struggled with, or this is a truth about my past,
or this is something that I'm bringing into this relationship,
(27:36):
but again instead of coming with a sense of less
than being able to just talk about it as an
integrated part of who we are.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
We all have shadow sides, we all have dark sides.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
We all have things that we bring to relationships, and
we want to be with someone who's able to say, like,
I can hear that, I can tolerate it, I can
feel empathy for that. I too have my own stuff that,
when comfortable and safe, I can share. We want to
be able to and curate that mutual discourse.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
If that's ver.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
You're interested in, which in my view, is part of
a healthy relationship. And if we have someone that has
an immediate negative reaction and is unable to make space
for your story, that's a potential concern to explore further.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Definitely, I was talking to one of my girlfriends. We
were just touching base and catching up on life. She's
telling me about her relationship that she's in, and she
said that she has been feeling these triggers come up
for her and she's had to really like take a
look at them and get to the root of them
(28:49):
because she knows it's not just her significant other, it's
not his fault that these things are coming up within her,
and I commend her for like having that awareness and
being willing to look at it. And I asked her
if she had a therapist that she works on this
stuff with, and she said no, but she journals every
(29:09):
day and she feels like she can handle it on
her own, and she feels like she has been healing
in that way. And she's like, I really am grateful
for this relationship because I'm able to look at these
things that come up for me. Do you think the
purpose of relationships, or maybe it's just one of the
(29:30):
purposes of a relationship is for that person to be
a mirror for you to look at your own stuff
and the things that come up within you.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Well, I think that's definitely a worthy paradigm because it's
by definition true, and you can either kind of deny
it or suppress it, or be angry or triggered by it,
which by the way, we all are at moments, but
or try to figure out a way to embrace and
(30:00):
exactly as your friend is doing, to be curious about it,
like an investigative reporter, like like what are why that's
coming up for me? Like what what does that mean
to me? What does that remind me of? Is there
something in the past that feels the same? You know,
what is the need that's coming up underneath that? You
know what would I could put words to it that
(30:21):
were unfiltered, what would they be? Right? Getting really curious
about why a certain dynamic or certain words or certain
behaviors impact you, instead of feeling guilty or bad, or
instead of allowing it to motivate kind of a response
that repels your partner. All hard to do, but that's
(30:41):
kind of our aspirational goals, right, is to get curious
about it. And I think most people report that whether
it's a relationship they're still in a relationship of their past,
that when time has passed, that the relationship, even if
it was difficult or toxic and did, taught them something
(31:02):
about themselves and taught themselves, taught them something about what
they want in a future relationship. And though that's hard
to remember when you're feeling all the things and you
feel triggered or scared or anxious or insecure or whatever
the right words are, that seems to be a pretty
universal truth. So it's a good thing to keep in
mind intellectually, that like this is somehow happening for my
(31:24):
higher good, Like there's something in here for me, and
I may not know what it is now, and I
may not know what it is like next week or
next month, but in a year or two or whatever
the timeframe is, I'll come to understand something about myself
that I wouldn't have otherwise. So I think it's a
really important perspective and, like I said, a hard one
to hang on to when you're in the middle of it,
(31:44):
but a good grounding principle when you feel like you're
floating a little bit without a life raft.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, it's so true. So my podcast Rachel goes Through
At first it was kind of like me defending myself,
and then it it turned into something more of me
giving my I guess the things that I've learned through
my recovery experience and sharing that with other people so
that they can take the things that serve them and
(32:15):
hopefully choose something healthier and better in their lives. When
I started getting feedback that it was helpful for people
like that was so rewarding for me, and so it
kind of turned into like a podcast about relationships. And
I didn't plan out for it to be that way,
(32:35):
but it kind of just turned into that, and I
have been considering sharing this for a little while, but
I've also have a new value of keeping things sacred
to me and not sharing my whole life publicly the
way that I have for the past ten years. I
(32:56):
have considered keeping this private and sacred to me, but
I actually, do you think that it's fitting to share
with the listeners of Rachel Goes Rogue since this has
kind of turned into a podcast about healthy relationships and
healthy friendships. I am in a new relationship and it's
(33:21):
very healthy, and he's very normal. And every time I
describe him to my friends and I say that he's normal,
and I show them a photo of him and they're like, wow,
he does like normal. It's such like an accomplishment. It
feels like because given my dating history, like normal was
(33:44):
not necessarily something that I was looking for in somebody else.
He's just such a supportive person and I just feel
really happy. So I did want to share that with
you guys, And I do feel like it serves the
purpose in being an example that when you do course
(34:08):
correct and choose a different lifestyle for yourself and prioritize
different things in your life and really take those moments
and days and weeks and months and maybe even a
year and focusing on your self development and personal growth
(34:29):
and kind of put all that energy back into yourself.
Then you really will begin to heal and you'll begin
to attract a different caliber of person because you are
healing yourself from within, and that's going to be reflected
(34:50):
back to you and the type of people that you
attract into your life. And so I guess that would
be my advice, and the reason why I'm choosing to
share it with you guys now with the permission of
my significant other, is because I don't know. I think
that it is a success story and there is hope
(35:13):
for the people that are listening who are struggling with
relationships and really can't quite see the light at the
end of the tunnel. Yet I hope to be that
light for you.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
It's so nice to hear you provide that update, and
I think making all the connections that your attempting to
communicate is really important. That look, it's not a linear journey,
and everyone's journey looks completely different, So don't compare yourself
(35:49):
to other journeys, But take hold of the components that
Rachel is outlining, which is that if you stop and
get quiet and try to figure out what is motivating
feelings that are uncomfortable, what is motivating behavior that is
not desirable, What is contributing to your life and or
(36:10):
your relationships not feeling okay or not feeling safe, This
work leads to important insights and usually important expansions, which
leads to showing up differently, which leads to your energy shifting.
Doesn't mean you're a different person, doesn't mean you're not
at the core you, but it does mean that you're
showing up in a way that is rooted in more
(36:31):
self love, in more self awareness. And it is accurate
to hypothesize that as a result, the people who are
attracted to that kind of energy will tend to match
that kind of energy through their own ways of moving
through the world, through their own work. And I think
that's what you're talking about that feels so critical and
hopefully super relatable to people. So when you're stuck and
(36:55):
in like the bits where it feels like, oh gosh,
how do I get out? And nothing feels right and
nothing feels good, that the journey to healing typically begins
by like slowing down and getting fly it and Rachel,
you alluded to the fact that you had the you know,
the opportunity to go to a wonderful program and surround
yourself with guides and supporters and clinicians that helped you
(37:20):
on your journey, which is amazing. But there are many
other ways to do that, Like you alluded to your
friend who's figuring out a way to do it through
journaling and self reflection. There's meditation, there's books, there's your
friend group, there's low fie therapy that you can google
in your community. In most communities, there's online therapy services
(37:41):
like Betterhelp, et cetera that provide low fee counseling as well,
So there are ways to sort of get started to
begin the kind of reflection that you're talking about, which
often is a tipping point to life feeling differently.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, I think that's a really great place to kind
of wrap this ups stowed up. I do feel like
I'm walking away from this podcast with a lot more
clarity and peace and doctor culture. I guess my last
question for you would be how can people ensure that
they can achieve milestones and they're healing journey as they
(38:18):
continue to nurture their well being and emotional growth.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Yeah, that's a big one. Stay with it, and that
might sound sort of obvious or cliche, but it's messy
and sometimes slow and emotional and confusing and anxiety provoking
and depressing and frustrating. Doing deep work to explore why
(38:44):
your life or relationships aren't working as hard and so
you kind of got to stay with it because particularly
the beginning can feel really muddy and really hard to
push through. Curate resources. I mentioned a bunch just now,
but whatever that means in your world, whether it's friendships
or family members or meditation or your journal, therapy, etc.
(39:09):
Find ways, people, individuals, materials, resources that support you because
a journey alone is a lot more painful and difficult
in isolating than one in community whatever that community means.
And vulnerability, you know, continuing to take the risk of
(39:30):
being honest with yourself, which can lead to pain and
sort of intense feelings of confusion. But it's really the
only path towards the light and opening and expansion is
to get vulnerable and sort of real with yourself. We
all have stuff, and so when we start to excavate
(39:53):
and look at parts of ourselves that we don't feel
good about our product. That's just being human, that's not
being bad or broken.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
We all have it. So just knowing you're part.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Of a larger mission that every human who's open and
willing will have a version of the same journey or
not alone.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, it's so true. And I think also just circling
back to the reframing of the baggage too, we all
experience life in a unique way. No two people have
had the same life experience, and as we go through
(40:35):
these experiences, they do form us and shape us into
the people that you see. If you do reframe baggage
as just like life experience, then I really don't think
that it's a negative thing at all. I think, yeah,
there may be some triggers that come up based off
(40:56):
of experiences that may not have been the most positive
or rewarding, But if you can work through those and
find people in your life that are willing to work
through those experiences and those triggers with you, then that's
all you could ever ask for. And you know, there
(41:17):
really isn't anything shameful about it.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I think that's it. That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
And it's the complex but like beautiful realization that I
think is a ubiquitous part of healing that like these
tricky parts of us are not shameful, They're superhuman and
shared with every person sitting around you and that you see.
And so if you can come to that like deep
(41:45):
understanding inside of yourself, you can then offer it to
those around you, and it changes how you move through
hard times, and that changes how you experience life.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
And so it's a it's a.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Really critical component to continue to like consider and integrate.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Thank you so much, doctor Golcher for coming on the
final episode of Rachel Goes Rogue.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Well, thank you for having me at you know, different
seasons of your journey.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Wow, that was a great episode and definitely a full
circle moment. How do you How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yes, I would love to take a moment to reflect
on how far I've come since starting this podcast with
you guys, iHeart and Juliette. This has really been like
a full circle moment and just like knowing truly what
i want, what I'm advocating for as my own person,
(42:57):
and I'm so grateful for everyone who has been part
of this journey with me, and to those of you
who have supported me by listening to my story, I
thank you so much. It's means so much to me
to be heard, and even to those who have challenged me,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
So. I mean, this is a big, wide question, but
tell me something that you're most proud of, because I
remember when you started this you were very excited to
do it, then you were hesitant to do it. It
was a very emotional rollercoaster at the beginning. It almost
didn't happen if you recall. But now I feel personally
you've achieved so much. But what are you most proud of?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
I'm most proud of, Gosh, just showing up and sharing
my story and being vulnerable with people who have taken
what I've shared and it's impacted their life in a
positive way, Like even if it is just one person,
just hearing that from someone has been so rewarding to me.
(44:00):
I think I'm most part of the growth and the
resilience I do know, like how strong I am now.
And I am also really proud of choosing now to
end the podcast and to move on as well. I
think that's a huge decision. It really is like a
(44:21):
huge full circle moment for me, and I don't know
if it makes sense, but I think for the friends
and family closest to me, they know me best, and
as I end this podcast, it really does symbolize something
monumental in my life and that is probably like the
(44:46):
most rewarding part of it all.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
And what about this is a tough one because I'm
sure there's a lot, But what is something that you
think you learn most about yourself through this experience.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
I'm I'm a very resilient person. I've learned that I
do have the ability to host my own podcast. I
never thought that would be a possibility before. Tuning out
the noise and getting quiet and listening to myself from
(45:20):
within is a skill that is difficult to do in
today's day and age, with social media and everything. But
this process has shown me that I am capable of
doing that as well, and staying true to myself and
being willing to choose something that is unknown and take
(45:43):
a risk and hope for the best and work hard
and hopefully it pays off in the end. And I
feel like the decision to do that with this podcast
has definitely paid off in more ways than one with
my personal development journey. It was the perfect thing for
me at that time.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
I think those are really great. I remember you saying
from the very beginning that just public speaking was something
you struggled with your whole life, and you did. You
even started the reality show or you know, being on
it for one of those reasons.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
And now you.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Hosted a podcast for a year on yourself, by yourself,
with yourself, So I agree that's something should be very
proud of. And then you were at the absolute lowest point.
You took more abuse publicly than most talent out there, right,
and you really shared it. You shared vulnerability. You show
(46:41):
people how to get through it, and you beat it
and overcame it. So I think those are some other
things that to learn something about yourself you really can
and hopefully you don't have to, but you really can
and have overcome some very mean and criticizing scenarios, and
you know, you did it with a smile and you
(47:01):
did it with some tears, and you shared those in
those vulnerability with people, and I think that you should
be very proud of that. And I'm sure you learned
a lot, like you said about resilience for that things.
So what is something you would say now to your
harshest critic.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Okay, so I think my harshest critics probably come from
a place of concern and love at the end of
the day, or that's how I choose to look at it.
I think the people that give me a hard time
for doing this podcast, they may be concerned that I
haven't really grown the way that they would hope that
(47:38):
I would have by now. I'm not sure. I'm not
sure it will drive you crazy trying to wrap your
head around it, but I would say to my harshest critic,
thank you anyway for engaging and being a part of
this journey too, because it can't just all be rainbows
and sunshine. There are going to be people out there
(48:01):
that are willing to give you a reality check and
it encourages you to really like focus in and reflect
on yourself and see, like, is what they're saying true
or are they just missing something that maybe this could
be an opportunity for me to elaborate on so that
(48:22):
they could get more clarity on the situation. Because I
think that's one of the difficult things about living in
the digital age. You know you're not going to get
the full picture, and we can only do so much
to convey what the reality of the situation is. And
then obviously there's going to be people that disagree with
(48:42):
whatever you do, no matter what you do. So reminding
myself to be true to who I am, and you know, like,
I'm not setting out to try to pease anyone or
get anyone to like me. Those days are over. I'm
just trying to like show up as myself and if
you vibe with them, awesome. If you don't, then fine,
(49:04):
let it be known, and then it's very clear who
is right for me in my life moving forward.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
That was very well said. So this is a weird question.
Have you forgiven yourself?
Speaker 1 (49:18):
I remember Bethany Frankel asking me this question when I
went on her podcast before I started Rachel gos Rogue,
and the answer was yes, I do forgive myself and
I stand by that today a year A year later.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
Okay, So to me, just right off the bat, I
see a healthier, happier for your young woman. You're more
self aware, you're more accepting, you're more confident. And I
don't want to sound condescending. I just you should be
really proud. You should be proud of what you went
through came out the other side, and I think that
that is definitely a role model to other young women
(49:54):
and other people that are going to be going through
whether they're in entertainment or not, and they encounter some
thing where I mean, look, yours happened to be because
of television. I think for you to be able to
come on the other side as whole and healthy as
you are, I do think you should be proud, and
I think people should look up to you for that
(50:15):
and and being vulnerable on this podcast sharing your toughest
moments with people. I'd have less choice words for your
biggest critics, so I would. I would most people would,
but that's just not me.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
I know.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I know my mom would have some other things to
say to my worst critics as well. Well.
Speaker 4 (50:40):
I think that you have some very exciting stages of
your life to look up into now, and you know,
your friends, your family, your new bo I mean, I
really am so excited for you, and I know that
everybody wishes you well and this is going to be
exciting to see what happens next.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
For Rachel Loves, It's been an absolute pleasure and something
that I would not have imagined in my wildest dreams
that I would be hosting a podcast, and sometimes realizing
that and then realizing all of the hardships that have
led myself to feel like this was the only way forward.
(51:21):
Doing this podcast or the best solution to the problems
that I was facing makes me grateful for all of
the hardships, even though, like some of the things, it's
not humane and it's not right, and that's why it's
(51:42):
so important for me to speak out about it because
there should be change. But I am grateful for everything
that's happened in my life so far because it has
pushed me to become the person that would be willing
to host my own podcast. Not only that, but like
do it for an extended amount of time and to
(52:03):
see the bigger picture with it and to connect with
people in the way that they need. And so in
that way, it's been the most rewarding thing that I
have accomplished so far in my career. Thank you so
much for listening to Rachel Goes Rogue. Follow us on
(52:26):
Instagram and TikTok for exclusive video content at Rachel Goes
Rogue Podcast.
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