JoJo

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And money. We are we are the authority on all
things R and B and money. Ladies and gentlemen, what's
going on? I am Tank, I'm Jay Valentine, and this

(00:24):
is the R and B Money Podcast, the authority on
all things, all things R and B. Oh my god,
oh my god, y'all have been requested this. You know, me,
me and this young lady go back like a six
pack of scoleosis. Yet, that's what I'm saying. We were

(00:46):
in the same place at the same day time, trying
to figure R and B lies out. Without further ado,
I'm gonna stop talking about it and introduce you being
her Hio. What a warm welcome. Thank you for Cheers

(01:09):
to you, Cheers and money. Thank you so much. This
man has me drinking at eleven a m. Here we go.
Do you offer me a beverage? I said, yes, we
are having a morning refresher. Okay, we're starting the morning
off right. UM. You you chose to dive into the tequila.

(01:30):
That's pretty dangerous. But I'm gonna let you rock understand
what I'm saying. UM, I want to start off with this.
You Normally we like to start off at the very beginning,
which we're going to get to UM. So first, it's
thank you for coming. It's my pleasure anytime this conversation
is super important and super needed. Your your our favorite UM.
But then I want to go I want to go here,

(01:50):
and then we'll go backwards. Okay. I remember us being
in the studio when you were when you were younger,
much younger, And I remember I had this song, this
four on the floor song around the world. Yes, taking
his around the world, taking his glowstick. Listen. I always have,

(02:11):
always have glow stick ambitions always. That's that's just me.
And I remember going back and forth with you about
this song, and and it got to the point to
where you were in tears because because in transparency, I'm
saying this white girl can really sing. Let's take advantage

(02:34):
of of all of this, the crossover, the all of
this and all of that. And you were saying to me,
I'm a so singer, I can sing. I'm not anything
but a singer. Don't box me in here, don't box
me in there. I just want to sing from my heart.
And you cried about that. That sounds very unbrand for me,

(02:56):
and you fought, you fought to be authentically you period,
point blank, and we were at odds. Then I understood
it later, and I'm proud of you for taking that
stance and continuing to just be yourself authentically and unapologetically. Well,

(03:19):
thank you for um saying that. I really appreciate that,
and I want to throw it right back to you,
and thank you for just being an example to me,
being a safe male figure in my life who was
so encouraging you. You pushed me lovingly and and I

(03:44):
always looked up to you and I still do. And
I am very emotional these days. I think, man, and
this is what I come back to. But really you

(04:08):
you you taught me so much in the studio and
just through living your life and the classiness in which
you navigated the situation that we were both in with
our former label and everything. So I just had the
utmost respect. And I'm sorry if I gave you a
hard time with that record, because now looking back on it,
I love that song. I love that sample. But of
course hindsight wouldn't have changed my life. We don't we

(04:29):
don't know, but you make dope ship across the board,
regardless of genre. It's really really cool. Well, thank you,
and yeah, it's a little to you and he still
still um. So, as we like to do on the
R and B Money Podcast, we like to go all
the way back to the Kenning. Okay, we want to

(04:52):
go yeah, yeah, let's go back when the first person said,
or you first realize, oh I got something, or or
they say to you, you can really sign. So apparently

(05:13):
I started singing when I was two. That's what my mom.
That's the story. You know. I don't remember. I can
barely remember what I did yesterday. So but I've been
singing for as long as I can remember. And my
mom and dad were both singers in their own right.
So my dad was like a Blues Brothers type singer,
like the Blue Sheet, you know, I mean that was

(05:36):
his like aspiration. He would play the harmonica, the guitar,
and he loved getting more of a soulful bluesy expression.
And then my mom was more operatic church soprano. And
so both of them I think recognized in me, oh,
like she she has what what we have? And then

(05:56):
maybe as I got a little bit older, maybe three four,
I would start bringing family. If they would come over,
um or if anybody would come visit, I would like
take their hands and and like sit them down and
be like and sing. You know. So I got a
good reaction from that. And I don't ever remember a
time that I wasn't singing, that I wasn't performing. It

(06:18):
was like a very precocious, slash annoying thing that I
was constantly doing. So it wasn't an It wasn't like
the parents saying coming I watched my kids. That's not
how I remember it. As soon as you walk in
the door, yes, hey, hey guys. Yes, I just wanted

(06:40):
to gather people around. What were some of the first
songs you were singing as a kid, Winnie the Pooh,
you know, the Barney theme song. But then a little later,
I really did love I was drawn to seul So,
Aretha Franklin and Edda James like I loved her Matriarch
of the Blues album, and George Benson was on Broadway

(07:00):
by the top pot. By the time I was like
five years old. I think I was singing. They said,
neon lights up right, oh bro Way. I believe it
was about five. I mean I sounded insane. I sounded
so crazy. When I look back to videos, I'm like,
why did you let me pursue this. I was so bad,

(07:23):
but I had so much. You know, you wanted it,
you really wanted it. I really loved it, and I
felt like it was something that made me special. And
I think that as an only child and someone whose
whose parents are fighting, there's a lot of tension in
the house, I think I needed something that was an
escape and that made me feel like people could focus

(07:44):
their attention on me. So is your is your discovery moment,
like your moment of hey, this can go somewhere, you know,
further than where you know, this can go past Massachutes?
Is that? Does that moment happen in Massachusetts? Yes? Actually
so that. I saw a newspaper like on the table

(08:09):
and it was like the Boston Globe and there was
audition section in the back, and I saw the kids
say that darnedest things was auditioning again. I was like
scouting my own what is that that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
And it was like just like a kid saying like
something so random that makes you laugh and you know
what I mean? And she's like, it's really the ship

(08:29):
that kids say when cameras ain't on, you catched him
put them over. That's what I remember that that's that's
a perfect description of it. So me and my mom
loved the show, and I saw that they were going
to becoming da Faniel Hall in Boston. I'm like, Ma,
can we go to Faniel Hall? But it was very

(08:50):
president today, so she was able to take me. You know,
she was cleaning houses for a living and she was
a single a mom, and we were, you know, just
really getting by. But she she did allow somehow to
take me there and and I got to be on
the show. So that changed my life because then they

(09:13):
invited me back on a second time and flew me
and my mom and dad, who were like divorced at
the time, like not working with each other, but it
was so meaningful to me that they could be uh
okay with each other for just a few moments to
come support me in California. We all came together for
the first time and and then I did kids say

(09:34):
that Darna's things again when I was about seven, singing, Yeah,
I was doing impersonations. I was doing like Share and
Elvis and Aretha Franklin and um other people who I
can't think of. So it was like a combination of
impersonation and just being the little little weird little ship
that I was. That's crazy. You flew to l A

(09:58):
at seven. Yes, so that was my my first time
seeing this, this place that that I that we all
now reside in. Did that make you say, hey, I
have to be in this place or did I just say,
you know, I know that there's opportunity. I know that star.
It felt like, Okay, I'm supposed to be acting on television.

(10:21):
I should be on a Nickelodeon show. I should do
the thing that like kids stars do. Because I was
already in theater as well. I had done like I
got my first check from a professional musical in Boston,
and so coming to l A, I was like, oh,
this is where the kids who really work are. And
I really wanted to work. Um now through therapy and stuff.

(10:44):
Maybe it's because I felt the financial insecurity in my house,
and I'm like, maybe this is something I can do
to help. So now through obviously looking at things from
a different lens, I'm like, why did I want to
work so bad? So you weren't being pushed by your
parents at all. It wasn't so no like mamajer stage parents.
That's not how I remember it. Uh, And she if anything,

(11:06):
was apprehensive and scared of this this assuredness that I had.
I was so focused. I was like, yeah, I like animals.
Maybe I could be a vet, but like I want
to be a singer. So she was just like, where
did this come from? And what do I do with this? So,
so you get your check? When is the break? When

(11:28):
is it? Like you are absolutely discovered and someone is
putting paperwork in front of you and your parents and
you guys are trying to figure all of this newness out.
Will I ever go to school again? Getting real? Exactly?

(11:49):
Strangely enough, I'll just give you the cliff notes of this.
But when I was like ten, I went to one
of those summer concerts like that the radio stations put
on so Kiss when I wait is the pop station
of Boston. I met Britney Spears that day. I sang
my way through the security guards like I was like, hey,
I want to meet Brittany um, you know, with my
mom obviously and another person I had called in to

(12:09):
win the tickets. I was very like enterprising in that way.
So met Britney Spears. Long story short, she and Larry
Rudolph tried to sign me to her production deal. She
was going to start her own thing. That was when
I was ten. My mom said, no, you're too young.
I was like, you're trying to ruin my life clearly.
So at eleven, I was being bullied. So did you
say that you're not gonna let me sign this is

(12:32):
what you're telling me about to say? You probably got
said mom, you're just trying to ruin well white kids.
I could not say that. I could not be like.
She'd like, you're gonna get what you guess. You're lucky.

(12:55):
I never know she's doing it back there, you drugs.
So so that happened. She said I'm too young. I
was being bullied really badly in school and I was
in the guidance counselors all the time just crying surprise.
But at eleven, we moved to California, stayed with a

(13:19):
cousin that my mom had for pilot season because we
were going to like pursue that that whole thing. Give them,
give them, give them some context of pilot season so
people know pilot sees. Everybody that don't come to l A,
they don't know what that means. Pilot season is when
all the different shows, whether they're new or they're coming

(13:39):
back for another Oh, yeah, that the pilot. So new
shows are casting and it happens during a certain period
of time. I don't know when, but I think it
might be like January, and there's like an exodus of
of of kids, people who are coming to l A,
staying at a place like the oak Wood or wherever.
But we were fortunate to have a cousin who lived

(14:01):
in Lahabre, so I did musical theater while I was there.
I was enrolled in the school, and I also got
a pilot called ned To Classified School Survival Guide, which
was the show on Nickelodeon that I ended up not
I know, And so I got that pilot, but then
did a show called America's Most Talented Kids at the
same time, lost to a violinist. Mario Lopez was hosting

(14:23):
the show. I think unless that was another talent thing
I did. But UM lost and ended up meeting James Womack,
who was a manager at the time. He was in
the audience and he was like, I know you, you know,
I know you lost this one, but that means nothing
in the scheme of your life. Like I see a

(14:44):
feat I see the potential in you and I want
to take you around to some people. So I'm like, okay,
I mean my life. As soon as you get stage
for him, He's like, you're you really got something. So
he took me and my mom kind of under his
wing and ended up introducing a Stevens and Herbert who
ended up being my executive producer of my first two

(15:05):
albums and Yes, so and when is this what? Years
two thousand three, So I was twelve, yes, or or
at the end of my eleventh year. So we we
went around to a lot of different labels. More so,
I think it was Vincent who was taken a surround
of different labels and he had a UM, he had

(15:26):
a production company, m hmm, so he was also making
the decision of where would he want to bring his
production company that I would be signed to. So met
with a lot of different labels, got flewed out to like,
you know, different like to Vegas to meet with the
maloofs and two Alabama to meet with like another business
person who was starting something UM and then we ended

(15:48):
up going with Blackground, which was so signed with them
when I was twelve years old, and then ended up
moving to New Jersey to start working on my first album.
You were in l A when you got signed, exactly,
and then you moved to Jersey. Where do you move
to Jersey? That's a great question. That's where That's where
their offices were. We were, we were, we were year

(16:13):
So it's very much in New York. And another thing
that I do think is that the child labor laws
are are less on the on the East Coast, so
I think it would have been really particularly hard for
me to even stay at the studio late in l A.
Things like that. It's just a little more lenient. Remember
at that time. I remember that time. I remember because
I've known Evince for a really long time and in

(16:38):
the music business we all crossed paths multiple ways in
different times of our our careers. And I remember him
telling me verbatio, I'm putting everything I had behind this
little girl. What are you talking about? What a thing
to say. I think I think I might have met

(16:59):
the studio because this was yeah, it was yeah, two
thousand three whatever. Yeah you said under dog days. Yeah,
it's under dog days. And I want to say he
brought you by um And he was like yeah, because
I think I said I had known him, you know,
for a while, He's like, yeah, yeah, everything I said,
everything that risk. But that's what in this business. If

(17:26):
you're not willing to risk everything you have behind something,
you should not be in business with it. Are them
or you know, I mean whatever whatever it this is,
whatever the thing is that you're attaching to, if it's
if it's a person, place or whatever. If you're not
willing to invest everything that you have into somebody, let

(17:51):
them go to someone who will. That's good, yeah, because
there are so many ups and downs in this business,
and all we have is our time. All we have
is our time. I get I guess your money. You
can go throw some money at something, you can throw
it out the wall. But like giving somebody your life
to to further their career, you have to really see something.

(18:16):
And he saw it. I remember, he don't know what
he played me, but I was like, I've never heard
a little girl saying like that in my time. This
is what I'm this is what I'm saying. He believed
in me, changed my life, changed me, gave me a
sense of purpose, direction, and it really helped to crystallize

(18:36):
what Jojo, who Jojo was, and who Jojo is, because
before that I'd been Joanna. He's the one who you
know called me Jojo and that's where that came from.
So he Yeah, I mean I definitely felt that belief,
and that belief moves mountains that really can, and it did. Yeah,

(19:00):
was right there on the verge of getting benched. Yeah,
I was getting benched at the time. Put Joe Joe in.
Jo Joe came in through a touchdown and they were like,
you're never getting back. So you're who's the guy that

(19:25):
the Tom breestre not Drew Brees, but you god sitting
outside the labor look at any like, I'm not injured anymore,
not hurt. I can still play. You want me to play,

(19:52):
That's okay. I got benched later to um, you know
It's what I can say about that is that, you know,

(20:13):
I think we have some some maybe dark memories of
that place we were in. But you know, always, you know,
I'm always a glass half full kind of guy, and
I'm always like, let's find the light in this dark situation.
Let's find the thing. Um, I'll be ready shoot everybody, everybody.

(20:36):
And he'd be like, he'd be like, no, no, Chief,
I'm telling who's gonna be all right? Yeah, Yeah, that's
that's the office, right. I'm what I'm trying to like,
what I'm trying to before went to shoot um is

(21:04):
that I just what what I always go back to,
what I always try to stay focused on and pull
from that moment, is that there would have been no me.
I feel the same without black Ground. I feel the
same way. That's that's just how I live in that space.
I remember when when we put out Freaking and it
just it wasn't doing. It wasn't giving. It just wasn't

(21:27):
giving back. In two thousand, it wasn't giving. You could
have had that turn back in no, no, we need
let's get rid of that, and it translates tru and
Joe Joe and didn't work. I'm saying that too. And
we shot this, you know, five thousand on a video

(21:48):
and cooking. We were cooking and Barry Hankerson, in the
midst of this not working, walked over to me and
said and said, I'm taken over from here. We gotta
you gotta hit record. I'm gonna make sure you have
a hit record. I'll take care of you from now.
And sure enough, sure enough that maybe I deserved drop

(22:14):
and he did not let nothing fall by the wayside,
all of it, all of it, all of it. So
that as a powerful man, honestly the self like you
alluded to, there were dark times and you know, things
that didn't go the way that we wanted them to.

(22:37):
But I can't help but look fondly at him for
for how I saw him, particularly as a preteen teenager.
He was an uncle figure to me. I looked up
to him absolutely absolutely, you know, I was like, Oh,
everything's gonna be okay, So I I have I have
a lot of love for him. Still it's in a

(22:57):
weird way, do you know what I mean. I understand
what you're saying. I'm in the same boat. And it's like,
you know, even like even being you know, I kinda
I kind of got beside myself and went into a
space to where it created a different kind of friction.
But you know, I was old money, you know what
I'm saying. I was. I was hungry, My family was hungry,

(23:20):
and so you know, I with someplace that I shouldn't
have gone, but I didn't know what else to do.
So even in that space of two thousand to to
two thousand seven, where you know, like I said, I
was sitting on that bench, you know, out of whatever
situations that he heard or or or you know, whatever

(23:40):
made him want to tap back in to be a
part of sex, loving, pain and and and make sure
that we had a hit record. I'm saying, I'm saying
I watched that. I watched him make watching. I watched
him built that record. Shout out to Eli McCoy as well,
from from three spins to three thousand plus. I watched it.

(24:02):
Go into that office over there off a loyal canyon.
We'll go there every other day and just say how
we're doing, what we're doing. We need to make these calls.
Don't worry about a Texter. We're gonna get it, Eli
saying that very safe. Yeah, Elis sit in the room
by herself. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna figure this out.
Don't worry about Texter. We don't get that was very
his name from Texter. Don't worry about Texter. But so
all that to say is, um, what a place right?

(24:27):
What a what a what a way to I guess
be tried by the fire that I love that phrase
and I think that's the perfect representation of that. Yeah,
so I'll ask you guys as someone from the outside
of that because I never I never worked with Black Ground.
I don't, I didn't. The only thing I know is,

(24:49):
you know, third person, but I asked from the business
side and time. So because from the outside, it's like, Okay,
the success comes, the music is great, like your first album,
we're planting them out the gate right, your first album,
second like double triple, like you're doing numbers. And obviously

(25:13):
then you run into the label conflicts. But now a
new artist may look at that it's like, oh, well,
if they hold up my music, I'm gonna just stay
on the road or i'mna. Just at that point in
those years, there's no social media, so I'm sure that
time is different and what you can do and how
you can move around. But you know, I think it's

(25:34):
always like it's great to hear both of you guys,
story of of of how you like you said, just
what you went through at that time, but how you're
so appreciative of the opportunity because you hear so many
artists that are just purely on some they sucked me
over and this that now there and nobody did this
and if I didn't, But I don't see or hear

(25:57):
that when I talk to you guys, I see and
hear both of you saying no, this opportunity lead me
to period. I think it's really important to look at
various sides of of something and not everything is terrible.
Like I am sitting here in your mansion because we

(26:21):
are both sitting here because because of the platform that
we were given. If if Barry, Vincent, Joemo, whoever, didn't
choose Leave get Out as my first single, I don't
think I would be I would have never because, like
as you know, I considered myself a soul singer, so

(26:44):
this was very out of my will, my wheelhouse. I
wouldn't have constructed that for myself. It literally gave me
a foundation in which to build from and and then
to follow that up. To have the opportunity for Billy
Steinberg to pitch me a record like too Little, Too
Late and me to be like, that's the song I
want to be my single, and and Vincent to be like, yeah,
you're right, okay, you're learning that. You know, it just

(27:07):
wouldn't happened. So I just think it's important also, what
what are we doing if we're living with such um
one sided perspective of the world, and if we have
hate in our hearts, I still have pain. I still
have a lot of pain and a lot of disappointment,
a lot of I'm very sensitive to things, to people's
like all of that. So that's where the tears come,

(27:29):
that's where the you know, the tension comes from. But
but I don't want enemies and I don't like if
I I just don't see the point of that, do
you know what I mean? I want to be on
good accord with everybody and to take accountability too, for
accountability is everything. So as it pertains to the time

(27:54):
between my second album and when I turned eighteen, nobody
knows what I was going through in my family life.
And I'll probably say that for for a book one day,
because that was more deeply painful than anything that was
going on with the label and my mom was managing me.
That was a very interesting experience. And so it's not

(28:15):
just somebody's fault, it's not just this person's fault, it's
not just my fault. Things culminate for a perfect storm
or a you know, things culminate and come together in
a unique way, and I think it's important to like
dissect it all. I love that I love that. That's
that's that's amazing. It's amazing that that you can see

(28:38):
it that way. I wouldn't be able to be here.
If I couldn't see it that way, it would be
too heavy on you, too heavy. I would have gotten
way deeper into depression. Yea, beverages exactly. Whatever druvable I
always like went to the edge because I was sad
and depressed. I never fell off the edge, and that's
only by the grace of God. I don't know how

(28:58):
to explain it other than man, hallelujah um um. So
the record, yeah's let's let's not want the success of
it though before you complete, I don't mean to cut
you off about the success of being fourteen years old
having a platinum record. Yeah, Like who wrote get Out

(29:22):
so Soul? Shock and Carlin with a producer and then
like he has the word white in his name, like
whitey or something. I cannot think of the because I
wasn't there for the writing of it. It was already created.
I was twelve when I recorded. People in the comments,
they're going to tell us who Okay, yes, they stayed

(29:46):
trying to correct me. That's why I was suspended, right
I'm back. Now, everything's gonna be all right. But so
you're you're fourteen years old? What do you do when
you get a platinum record at fourteen? It's got a
pizza in your feet. Let's keep diving into and you
did you know your your fee goes up show? Because

(30:09):
because you didn't know your I mean I probably knew
it at the time. I don't know it now. I'm
just saying, but you don't know what it was. Right,
what I'm saying. Your fee goes from let's use what's
what's the girl? Now? It goes from from four thousand
and fifteen thousands? Oh yeah, yeah, we just heard about that. Yeah,
she's example in three weeks. So you're gonna love it.

(30:37):
I know you. So you're gonna she goes from four
thousand a show to fifteen twenty thousand a show, like
two weeks. It has to call the people and say,
my fault, we made a mistake. How big change if
you need me to show up? So now you were,

(31:00):
you know, fourteen, and and the money is different. How
does that affect were you touching the money from? Okay? No,
the money went into a Coogan account until I was eighteen,
which means that you know, it's that from what I understand,
that was created like around the Shirley Temple time or
maybe maybe later, but to protect children from being exact

(31:22):
money got to But yeah, yeah, go ahead. You did
you get your I did get mine, But tell us
the story. Serious? Wait, so you were working again? Take lugging? Yeah,
I have a go I was not people the people.

(31:45):
The people came from mind people care like restitution or
some ship kes my my my mom was was handling that.
And then I had an agent and uh you know
that whole thing and business manager. So I wasn't really
I was not a where it was their teen You're
not aware? So were you aware of the difference in

(32:05):
uh in just your presence? You know what I'm saying,
because as you're as you're starting to do work and
and go to these shows, go to the mom anymore.
But then then I realized I'm quite famous. You did
you ever run into the podcast kids that was billing? Yeah?
I remember. You know what I want to know. Listen
on my fourteenth birthday, leave get out of Timmy, I

(32:28):
see you security. Timmy is my uncle planned this really
great birthday for me. My fourteenth birthday in Foxbro, which
is where you know the Patriots play, yeah, which is
where a lot of my family lives, and planned this
party at like the VFW. I don't know if from
the Northeast knows what I'm talking about, so um shout

(32:49):
out to Willia mcganni's real quick. That's my big dog
from from the From so through this fourteenth birthday and
I just remember everybody in the town trying to get
in and I was like I came out. I remember
that there were these girls who were mean to a
friend of mine and mean to me, like who like

(33:10):
tried to throw me in a locker and like tried
to who did throw me in a locker? You know?
Who just had me in the guidance counsels and they
wanted to be at my birthday. And I was like,
there was a security guard out there and I'm like,
tell them, they can't get in, and he was like,
you can't get in, and I was like, so that
made me feel good. You can't get in. You can't

(33:30):
get in. You can't love slogan. Can't sit with us,
you can't that's the new you can't sit with it.
You can't get in if your mean, hey, kids, there
should big consequences and repercussion. You might be your classmate
might be Jo Joe. It's giving karma. Yes, wow, So

(33:55):
you felt it that that was the highlight of the
platinum record that also, you know, the the TRL, you know,
all of that. Going to New York, Like that was
such a cool time for me because first of all,
I was the youngest of my of my peers of
that of that like time that that music was being
put out and stuff. I felt like such an outcast

(34:16):
once again, kind of like I was in school. I
just felt like, oh, where do I fit in because
I'm a baby, Nobody wants to hang out with me
because everyone is eighteen. Plus Sierra was coming out around
the same time, but she was eighteen, so I felt
like so uncool. Even though people were like, oh my god,
you're so cool, I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm so embarrassing.
You could take full advancee no, no, no no. So

(34:38):
but I did feel that, yes, I was famous. People
liked my music. That was cool. My songs should be
playing on the radio. And I was like, wow, okay,
like everybody who made fun of me funck off. You know,
look at me, I'm at the Kiss concert playing it
now like that was exciting for me. But as far
as the money, I had no idea and neither did
my mom particularly, so we we just w 's on

(35:00):
the pizza. So we went from being poor to then
having money and being like whoa, Like what do you? Did?
You know how to deal with it from not losing
your mind because you watched so many kids stars not
know how to manage the power that they have now

(35:22):
because the brain winner has power no matter how old
you are exactly. So did you ever have a moment
where you kind of either had to tell yourself or
I'm tripping or somebody had to like grab you by
it by the arm and say, hey, you're still fourteen.
My mom my mom would always kind of pop the
my inflated head and you were having moments, Oh, definitely
having moments because there was always this threat of even

(35:46):
though there was already momentum in my career, always the
threat from her of I'm gonna, I'm gonna tomorrow You're
you're not doing this, you know, you're taking you out
of the industry, just if she if I didn't do
something that she liked. So there was that that kind
of vibe. But then to that, I would say, I
paid the bills. You know, we're having that conversationslutely. I

(36:07):
keep the lights on here. Wonderful. I can only imagine,
I can only imagine squirrel and we did. Yeah, and
fourteen years old picked on But now she's fought our

(36:28):
way out doing this Spanish. That was really good. Um,

(36:49):
I know he speaks. That is incredible. You said you
had to really like you had to square I mean
later into my later into my teenage life. Yeah. Again,
there were a lot of different dynamics at play, so
that was wrong. If I had a child and they
tried to do me like, definitely react in a different way.
But everybody's doing the best they can. So yeah, there

(37:11):
was a there was a lot of There was a
lot of friction, and I definitely had inflated sense of
self because I felt like, you, you know, you're getting
to live comfortably because I'm I'm working. So maybe that's
not the way to look at it, but I was like,

(37:32):
you're driving Alexus now and you saw that, you saw
the difference, you saw the difference in your life. You
realize that it was because of your work, because of
my work, her sacrifice, her her absolutely, her giving you
her time to support me. Is it almost a thing
where you just kind of want your voice to matter more,

(37:54):
not necessarily that you want your voice to be the voice? Yeah?
Is it just you, Like listen, I have some texts,
I have some perspective on this, like I should be
uh my perspective and my voice should be accepted. Like look, yeah,
I think it was always that I kind of wanted, Um,
I wanted to work more. Yeah. So so she she

(38:16):
wanted me to be a kid, and I didn't want
to be a kid. I already felt like I wasn't
a kid already. You've always been in the old soul. Yes,
So when you look back on that, do you wish
that you would have been a little more of experienced
being a teenager and a kid that you can't be
any voice. We're grown now. Yeah, I do think that
would have been a good thing for me as far

(38:37):
as like relationally, learning how to relate to people in
a better way. Like I missed out on trying to
give you balance. She was trying to give me balance. Um,
And I hear what you're saying, mh. But again, a
lot of different things play. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no,
I get it because I grew up in the industry.
I grew up, you know, singing in really early age

(38:59):
and not experiencing much of a childhood. My father, you
know what I mean, Like you know, like he was practic. Yeah,
like we were. We were for we were for grouping,
and it was we thought we were going to be
the Jacksons, and it was rehearsal and rehearsal, and even
if you quit the group, you still got to rehearse.

(39:21):
Like this, Ship don't don't make sense because because pretty
much it was just like you're not quitting, you're not quitting,
and this is what's going to get us out of here.
So I understand. I understand that dynamic. And I and
I and I had a moment when we when we
were when our album was out, Like I got my
record deal when I was nine or ten or something

(39:43):
like that, and I remember going and performing and before
I even sang my part, they started screaming and I
was like, oh, Ship, feel like I'm cute. They like
what you're saying. Everybody, all right, everybody you heard of

(40:05):
I had that moment, and but obviously I was in
the group with my brothers who were five years older
than me. They were twins, and they just beat me
up pretty much after like yeah, you look punk, Like no,
that's not how I go. But that kind of kept me,
you know, at least in a space where I didn't
lose it. And then we just you know, are you
know are we have some other stuff that went on
in our group, so it never fully research full potential.

(40:26):
So I don't know how I would have reacted at
ten eleven would have platinum, So can't imagine, you know
what I mean. So that's why I asked, right. I
think it was a kind of a bit of a
conflict because people would encounter me, or at least I
thought I was presenting as people would be like, how
are you so grounded? How are you so down to earth?

(40:48):
But then my mom was like, you're acting like a
little bit, and I'm like, you know what, I'm very confusing,
well because it's like your interaction or your it's always
like that, like you're in the safe space. You know
what I'm saying. You like, I keep but you know,
for some reason, just clicks when you cross that threshold

(41:09):
you turned into the professional. Yeah, yeah, you know what
I mean, you're acting very early. Yeah, you're already. Yeah,
you already. You already knew how training and the two league.
You already know how to get right in line and
be a pro in whatever space you need to be in.
I guess. Yeah. So you had the people out here
thinking you was like, she's so sweet. Yeah, but even

(41:30):
who has worked with me forever, she used to be
a black manager, and I mean she was like, I thought,
She's like, you were a piece of work, Joe, And
I'm like, I'm sure I was. I'm sure I was.
So let's let's move after UM. We don't have to
get into the intricacies of um, of of the separation. Yeah,

(41:54):
mixtape Joe, Joe. Yeah, but let's get into Okay, now
I'm able to breathe. Are you in l A at
this time? Mab Yes, So I moved to l at nineteen.
I was in Boston from eighteen to nineteen, moved out
here and was just in the studio, constantly in the
studio during the day, partying at night. It was like
my college used as your college area. That is this

(42:19):
such a dangerous such a dangerous thing. So glad you're here.
It's still a lot. I really think about that. I'm like,
how am I here? Here? Was college from me too?
For a young girl though? Is wa different? That's way different.
I'm grateful that I made it out as unscathed as

(42:39):
I did. You know, it could have been a lot weirder. Yeah, yeah,
And so what is your process now now that you're
you know, out of the blackground situation and you're you're
looking for new life and the next move. So I was.
I started putting out a couple of mixtapes and like
my Marvin's Room remake and all the stuff during the

(43:00):
time where I wasn't out of blackground yet, because I was,
they still owned my voice. So I was trying to
find ways to put out music but not make money
from it. So that's what what like at this point
is social media's kick and all. So that's the whole Yeah,
please give us that time and what you were doing
to stay relevant. I was just talking with my fans,

(43:21):
really telling them to a certain extent, what I was
feeling going through, how much I wanted to put out music,
how much I wanted to tour, or whatever the case was.
I don't really know why I didn't tour that much then,
but maybe it's because I didn't have new music to
promote um. But then I did some little things with
with the mixtape, So Twitter was a game changer for me. YouTube.

(43:42):
This was all kind of the precipice of that being
the huge deal that it is now. And I put
out my first mixtape through band camp and it had
a ridiculous number of downloads first week, which was so encouraging.
Like I was like, it gave me, you know, some
some just a sense of purpose again. I was like, Okay,

(44:02):
this is what I meant to do. I love this.
I have an amazing fan base and they're here for this.
They like what I'm doing. So after that, continued to
release some stuff, was able to finally get out of
the deal with Blackground and signed immediately to Atlantic started
working on an album. I was signed by an executive,
Aaron Baischuk, who is the A and R there at
the time, and we started working on on an album there.

(44:26):
But then, as you know, you know, musical chairs happen,
and then you know, this person leaves and then you
try to keep making an album that changes direction a
little bit, and so that was my experience with the
making of Mad Love, which was my official album, like
come back after ten years of not putting out an

(44:47):
album from fifteen. I didn't realize it was that. And
the crazy thing about that is, you know Aaron's first
record that he an R Tank, Yes, which we after
a tank. Now I never got off of black, so
we did. We did it went to Atlantic. This is

(45:08):
Aaron's first time in anything. So it really it was
me and Air, Me and Aaron. Aaron don't know shit
about Army, Like, no, it's my guy. I love him
to death. But at this time, at this point, like
obviously he's done amazing things. At this point, young and
R young white guy, They're like, yeah, we did a
new deal with Atlantic. Here's your R. I don't know

(45:33):
pronounced this night He's like, listen, guys, got a few records,
want to play for you. But I really liked that.
I think I feel really good for where I think
you can go. Here we go. We're looking at like
we're gonna turn it out. We're gonna show you how
to do that, don't And so that process like we

(46:00):
just became friends. We just really hung out and cooked
up together. And that's been open and uh and wanting
to learn I think it's complete exactly. It's just it's
just interesting that both of you guys come from the
same scenario in situation, go to the same label. Yes,

(46:20):
get the same and that is really strange. Did you
think you're following you? Are you like this little chicken?
I don't know what's going on over there, blackground Keeter.
But this room over here, if you man, you got
if you can just get on that rail road, come

(46:42):
get a home down here. This Atlantic, they got lemonade
and business for everybody on this side, out out the
shout out the big flot. But it was like he

(47:03):
that's he said, there is a small window. There's a
small chance, my brother, that you could be out of
there and over here. And um, and what's what's my guy? Um?
From Atlantic? Um? Craig not Craig Mike um uh be right,

(47:27):
producing all the writers and all of that. I'm like,
he's gonna he's gonna be mad that I'm forgetting his
name right now. So my Karen was the first person
to come to me to say, you know, I think
I think you should. I think you should come to Atlantic.
And I was like, I don't even know what that means,
you know, what I'm saying, and then I'm also saying

(47:48):
you shouldn't say that out loud because because because these
people are dangerous, right, should we talk right now? We
should use sidlings because he's you know, just I mean
just speaking about my path of just going to Atlantic

(48:08):
Records and them um showing me, um something at that
time that I didn't think I was even worthy of,
you know, in saying, you know, sitting down with with
Mike Karen and then with um Craig Common and Craig

(48:28):
Common saying yeah, yeah, we're gonna do this and we're
gonna do it as long as it takes. I was like,
what We're like, Yeah, we're gonna as long as it takes.
We're we're in. We're in with you as long as
it takes. That's what you deserve, and that's that's what
belief is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So does the Atlantic situation

(48:53):
are you saying, you know, people change things move, Does
that become a staple for you or do you or
do you even move again? From I moved again? Um,
so I kind of continue to move where Aaron moved
because because Aaron and I were you know, so so tight.
He had such amazing belief in me. So as he

(49:13):
as his career was on the ascent, he was like,
you should just come with me. Um, so I did so,
I did so at a So I went from Atlantic,
then Warner where I mean somewhere else real quick, where
where he made a pit stop, didn't end U putting
an album out there, and then to Warner where he

(49:36):
became chairman. So it was just because I really do believe,
and this is any artist that is going to be
a part of the major label system, having an advocate,
having a person there who is your point person who
you really speak the same language with, who believes in you,
who will go to bat for you, that makes a
big difference. It's also very important obviously for an artist

(49:58):
to be self energizing and to stay you know, to
be self sufficient, to move the needle forward, to keep
going like you can't look too a label to tell
you what to do necessarily because that's not how it
works anymore. But to have a person there in the
building who believes in you. That's why I felt like

(50:19):
it was going to be, you know, important for me
to to stay with erin So are you putting out
mixed types as you're moving around still, Are you stopped that? No?
So I really started touring again with with Mad Love.
Mad Love is where I went back to the touring
life and was able to sell that out and really
get a sense of Oh, I love this part of

(50:42):
being an artist. I love to be on tour. I
love to be busy. I learned how challenging it can
be to maintain a level of vocal health while you're
doing three shows in a row and you have one
day off and then you might have two whatever. I
learned that that schedule doesn't work for me. I need
to have like two shows maximum, then one day off,

(51:04):
then two shows. I can do it like that, but
that third show if I'm not completely silent like I
just you figure out the what works for every particular
instant and sticky. So I want to give people my best.
So I was like, let's let's change up the schedule
next time. So Mad Love is when I got back
into that. And then from in between Mad Love and

(51:25):
then my next album Good to Know. Um did I
do a mix tape? I don't remember, But after Good
to Know, which was then I released like an ep
uh because I was going through something and I felt
like I wanted to share it with people. I was
going through a serious about of depression and anxiety. A
lot of people were with the pandemic, but for me,

(51:48):
it started before that. Just what what am I? What's next?
A lot of us feel that way, and I wanted
to put out this project and see if other people
would relate. And it made me feel less alone, and
it was a part of my healing to even share
what I was going through in that project, which is

(52:08):
like the most recent thing I've released recently. Saw you
uh San Diego, Yes, that was That was a frustrating show,
but it meant so much to me that you and
Zena were there. It was frustrating, Yeah happened. If you
if you, if we can get get that inside that
that venue was um. I was having sound issues. I

(52:33):
was not feeling like outfit. I felt like my my
things were showing in a way that I wasn't comfortable with.
To be in a venue that small, where people are
below you and can see up your skirt, I really
don't like that. You were you were you were, you
were dressed. I was dressed. I had on an outfit. Yeah,
you had it on an outfit, but you know's legs

(52:53):
are out there. Yeah, the legs is out And obviously
I don't mind, you know, showing what I want when
I want, but I just didn't like people being under me,
like escalator you're going because they are clearly going there.
So it was just like the configuration. I um so
I was like, okay, never again because you change and

(53:16):
came back just just put on this two piece jeans.
But that's but that's also a part of professional lesson, yes,
because most people think that, and and owning who you
are in your career because most people think I just
gotta do it and I gotta be out here, and

(53:37):
I didn't know what the setup was. But then you
get out there you realize like, oh, actually cool, hey guys,
I'll be right back and wait for you. Absolutely you
did to change smooth. I tried change smooth because you know,
we're backstage and you know, we just no show, you know,
we can kind of see everything, and I'm like, and
then when you came back and even said it, I

(53:58):
just thought it was a change, right, you know what
I mean, Yeah, we didn't notice that it was about
you know, about comfort and about how you were feeling.
As you're explaining right now. I just felt like it
was part of the set. Yeah, so that's how you
made it feel until you said it. Yeah, I just
had to change guys. You know, jeans feel better, feel safe.
Let's keep going. Continue to learn things about myself through

(54:21):
through every single day. I learned that I need to
feel good about what I'm what I'm wearing when I'm
on stage. I need to feel good about how I've prepared.
Preparation is is like integral for me. I don't like
to just necessarily win things. And I've learned this through
you know, crashing and yeah, no, experience is the best education,

(54:43):
it really is. Yeah. So even now you know this,
many years in my career, I'm still like, Okay, new
thing I've learned about myself. You are so many years
into your career and I get this question a lot.
Excuse me, what keeps you going? Because as I see
you now in it's always some else like You're like,

(55:07):
you're happy, You're like, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Like,
as we spoke earlier, everything that I've had to go
through to get into this point, I'm with it. You've
accepted it, and you've just accepted the light in all
of those things, What is that thing in twenty two
that is keeping you, keeping you alive, keeping you going.
It's my belief that I've only scratched the shirt the

(55:30):
surface of my Yeah. I used to really think um
at a certain point that maybe I maybe my voice
was on the decline, or maybe you know what, what
more do I have to give? I've I've already reached
more than I could have ever imagined as a little girl,

(55:51):
accomplished beyond my wildest dreams. But I really believe that
on the other side of personal freedom is another level
of connectedness. And when I'm able to show up as
my authentic self, that will inspire other people to be

(56:11):
their authentic selves. And I think that that's now my
mission is to be the be a vessel for amazing songs,
take my ego out of it, and bring people together,
just like I did when I was a little girl,
asking family members and friends and people on the street

(56:33):
to listen to me sing. I really think that by
me connecting to that pure joy that I get from singing,
that can be hopefully a blessing to somebody else and
help them connect with what it is that they were
gifted with, even if that's just to be a listener,
to be part of a community, to be present, any

(56:53):
of that. I know that that's my work moving forward,
is to to let go, to shed those layers. Like
you said, the glass half full approach. I'm sure you've
done work to get to that point, and so the
letting go doesn't always come easy, but it's it's a
choice for sure every day. Well, I think sharing that

(57:15):
is the healing, and it's not just for you, like
you said, it's for those who get an opportunity two um,
not even just not even just to see you, but
to hear you, because you know those those vibrations are wrong.
Yes are are are comforting to some healing, to something helpful,

(57:35):
to something you know what I mean, and the stories
behind it, which is why you know we really wanted
you here to first and foremost give you flowers on flowers,
but also two for you to speak you know what
I mean, to speak that life into everything that you've

(57:56):
been through and everything that you're doing moving forward. I
thank you so much. I think that this time where
TikTok is you know where we're getting our news and
our information and where where UM find I think what
I wanted to say is I think it's a great equalizer.

(58:16):
I actually think that authenticity cuts through more so than anything.
I think that our attention span is if something feels false,
we're like cringeing, weird, you know. So I think that exciting, Yeah,
we just move on to the next until something really
hits us and resonates. So I actually think that while yes,

(58:37):
it's it can be frustrating and we're like, oh, you know,
we have to do this stuff, you can also really
find your community. So I think it's a great time
to put the hands the power back in the hands
of the artists, connect them directly with the community, and
you can kind of get a sense of what people
like you. Just give it a try, just put it up.
So are so are you looking at all of those

(59:01):
platforms as a way too, because obviously, like you said,
Twitter was something that was really important for you when
you really needed it early, I mean later later on
in your career, actually in the middle of your career,
and and it really jumped started rediscovery for you. So
as an artist in a season artist, someone who's been

(59:22):
around and and done the old school music business at
a very young age, and now the new age music business.
How do you go about that? Like, how do you
manage what's too much mhm? And what's important that you
have to be like, because let's be very clear, social

(59:45):
media is very important for recording artists. It's very important
to let them, you know, get a sense of your personality. Um,
tease music, maybe jumping a challenge here and there, you
know what I mean, Like, how how how how do
you deal with that as someone who is already established

(01:00:05):
and already has a fan base. Do you Are you
jumping at every challenge? Are you just like, uh, I'm
gonna do one here, And they're like, how do you
go about that? I'm definitely not jumping at every challenge
And I'm not like, oh yeah, I'm a blessing with
this one. I'm just like, it has to feel like
an extension of me. It has to feel like something

(01:00:26):
that I genuinely want to play with or something that
I because if it if it comes off forced, like
the viewer feels that. And I know that from being
on the other side of it. When I see other
artists who will remain nameless, but I see one in
my head right now when they're like slanging their music
around and they're like, let me shake my ass to

(01:00:46):
this music and let me do a dance this music,
and let me blah blah blah, And it does not
feel like they want to do that. It feels like
this was a mandate that was put on them as
opposed to I think that the way to make social
media work for you as supposed to you working for
social media is to find how you can be yourself
on the app. And there's like so many different ways.

(01:01:06):
Just have fun with it. And and I think TikTok
is more low stakes because it doesn't need to be
perfectly curated. We used to think Instagram like you have
to have like this grid and it needs to be
like color coordinated and all that stuff. TikTok you could
just like say stuff, and you can take clips of
this podcast and you can, you know, lip sync something,
or you can tease a song, or you can shake

(01:01:29):
your ass, or you can try on an outfit. You
can do whatever, and then you'll find people who like makeup,
who like travel, who like you know, plant based cooking,
who like, uh, going to Michael blue bleat concerts, you know,
like all these different things. And I just think it's
really nice. Um so of course we've got to do

(01:01:49):
things that we don't like to do, but you got
to find a way to to enjoy even something that
annoys you. Like when TikTok first came, and you know,
my label was like, you've got to push your own
music this way, I'm like, how yucky. You've got a
fun way to just like to enjoy. I know it's

(01:02:10):
easier said than done for for me too, I mean,
because we come from from just music. You just needed music.
And also the mystery was such a big thing, and
you could just show up and show people what it
is it is. You know what I'm saying. You just
show up in the city, Like I told you, I
was nice, right. And now it's like now that the

(01:02:31):
labels have done away with sending artists and all of
these things that we have now they don't do that anymore,
not as much you can promo your phone. Yeah, I
tend to feel like and I really wanted to know
that from you from an R and B sense, because

(01:02:54):
obviously we deal with people saying that R and B
is dying or it's a dying genre, are whatever the
very but what but what I do say that I
wish that more R and B artists would get in
front of it and get in front of the music
and get in front of their personalities because what, you know,

(01:03:18):
what what I what I feel like I found with
my parents generation, and when they were trying to push
out jazz, jazz took on a very elitist Oh that's
a great point, you know, persona of Oh I'm just
too you know, I don't need whatever you guys are doing.
Don't sample my record, you know what I mean? Like

(01:03:39):
they were, they were not clearing samples and just all
this other stuff that helped him kind of get phased out,
and I personally would hate for that to happen to
R and B. That's why Tank and I have even
done this, done this podcast, because they're like, listen, we
gotta stand in front of what this R and B
thing is, and we got to show people that we
actually got person analogies, and we're willing to, you know,

(01:04:02):
have to talk to human resources about some of the
ship we gonna say, you know what I mean. But
like I said, I'm so passionate about R and B
music that I would, you know, I would push artists
to just at least give these things to try instead
of just being like, well when they when I when

(01:04:23):
I go show up and I do my my shows,
they know what they know. Some people don't. I think
that is such an amazing point and comparison that you've
just made as well, because history is a way of
you know, we can learn from history. And I love
history actually, so that was that really excited me. And
I love jazz. So I think that's really great, great

(01:04:45):
point because there is a sense I think from my
vantage point of this, you know, coolness over everything sometimes
in R and B, and I think that that can
be sometimes to the detriment of letting fans in um
because you want to keep up a facade. I don't
think the facade works anymore. I think that people give

(01:05:07):
still works, gift work still works, but they actually like
that hey man, this artist is kind of funny. Are
goofy are yes, don't take themselves that serious. Like one
of the things that made me fall in love with
Ari Lennox is her personality is her getting on I
g live and just being in bed and being bored
like Summer Walker's exactly like it's I mean, I know

(01:05:28):
more about Summer Walker than I've ever known about and
I'm like, who's you know whatever? Because that song could
be about yeah exactly, So we buy into that and
it's not a new thing necessarily, but I don't have
the way for the biopic anymore. Yeah exactly. It's playing
out right in front of us, all right. Well, Um,

(01:05:52):
R and B Money podcasts, Um, we like to get
into your R and B mind. Okay, you're R and
B makeup right? Um, we would like to know this
is it gets it gets interesting right here. Top five

(01:06:14):
R and B Artists of all times. That was crazy.
That was very crazy. I'm going to say something in
this Top five y'all are going to agree with me,
but the Internet is gonna be mad at me. Okay, okay, okay,
I love I love that. Okay. Parameters, no, no time frame,

(01:06:37):
R and B and general yours God, okay, look back
for help. No, no, I understand he knows I'm gonna say. Okay, Um,
Top five R and B Artists. Okay, where do I begin?

(01:06:58):
Do Do I have to put him in order? No? No,
it's yours. Whatever it is, okay, great? No order and
no prep No, this is no this is never prep. Guys.
Jasmine Sulliman, come talking absolutely love us. Bobby Brown. You yeah,

(01:07:28):
I hate myself for this, but r Kelly, listen it
has I mean, oh no, I hate myself for it
coming out of you understand. Just yes, I know you know.
Um where do I go from there? I'm going to

(01:07:51):
go to for me personally music, soul music, and then
I'm going to go that Jasmine right, you're right up
my hands, um ah, gotta you gotta fire. Crazy crazy.

(01:08:23):
I used to watch music in the studio seeing perfect
go over one line for about an hour in the half.
That makes me feel that's crazy, okay. And I was like,
I was like, bro, you did like thirty minutes ago.
He just it just needed to be placed. This is

(01:08:44):
not auto tuned. This is about none of that. He
was able Warren Campbell. When I saw him do that,
this this line that was you know what I'm gonna
This line needs to be placed perfectly. I'm just the
millisecond off semi tone to He was just he was
just that much of a technician. People don't really listen

(01:09:09):
to what music was doing vocally on those records. They
just enjoy his records and have a good time because
they felt so and dissect go back and listen to
what he was doing right, So that's crazy. But then
Anita Baker is you know Jesus. I mean, she is
probably my biggest vocal inspiration right now. She is like

(01:09:31):
my my pinnacle. She's the one I looked to right now.
She's just incredible. Okay, all right, your top five R

(01:09:52):
and B songs? Mm hmm okay, Oh my really really
bad being on the spot. So you're gonna do my
Um let's let's say something from Joe to See. Let's

(01:10:14):
say like, uh, can I talk to me? I really
wanted me and talk to you? Okay, um Man, can't

(01:10:41):
do anything, Joe, you can't. You can't lose anything. You
can't lose, so nice to me. Okay, So Joe to See,
let's go. Okay, I'm gonna say Cisco Incomplete, Wow, fucking race.
That's a great record, great soul. That's the one you wrong.

(01:11:05):
I feel like that. Jordan Records wrote incomplete. D come
on the podcast, yes, shout out not even that's not
even play with we have come on our phones here,
come on just incomplete? Was fire? Was that the video?

(01:11:30):
Lisa Rabinson? I don't remember the video. I think Lisa,
it might have been a red I just made down
song when he when he walked over there forgetable. Don't
you do this again? That's GREATA you too, Cisco. That's
a great come back with great second song. The third song,

(01:11:50):
I'm gonna go with um one in a million Eliyah.
Life changing, Yes, life changing, life change. I'm gonna I
want to go to a different era, so let me
go more toward like um. I'm like I would say,
caught up in the Rapture better, yeah, better? Oh my god, man,

(01:12:19):
I grew up on those albums. That voice right there,
it's synonymous with my child. Like they said it your
mama didn't clean the house. Good. If you didn't grow
up to Anita Baker, that means your mama didn't not
to clean your house. Okay, okay, And I'm going to
say that I think a new a modern classic is

(01:12:41):
uh pick up your Feelings. Come on, come on, come on,
pick up your feelings. I think it's so good. I
love the tempo of it. I think it moves, it moves.
It's yeah, I felt the way when I first heard.
I was like, that's what she wanted us to do
and pick up here. It's so sweet she said feelings

(01:13:03):
like it was nasty. You're talking to you. That's exactly
what I heard talking to him. I'm working out to
this album, like this, what is she talking to She's me.
But it was so aggressive the way she was saying.

(01:13:24):
And she didn't she didn't um, she didn't scale it
down or dumb it down or or anything. She was like, yeah,
I'm gifted. Watch this, Yes, gift on display. What a
bold choice for the album title too as well. I

(01:13:44):
thought it was so and she's She's like, I don't
even call this an album. I'm like what She's like,
this is just a EP anyway. To me, it's perfectionist.
She's always been in this kind of shy space like
that where I think that I think that we've moved
or we were in a space where being talented was
very tough, very frowned upon, to be really talented because everything,

(01:14:10):
you know, it's hard for people to take enough time
to understand even what that is. The ears aren't even
tuned to, you know, there's a frequency that auto tune
and the computer has hypnotized everybody with at this point,
you know what I mean? Sing to the Black Keys seriously,
just doing that. People I gotta change the settings in

(01:14:34):
the auto nowmatic. But it's like she she I can't
speak from having that conversation with her, But I just
remember being even in two thousand two where I was like,
I'm a singer and these these songs, so these people

(01:14:56):
that are working they're not singers. Like this is trying, right,
y'all know this. If y'all know this, I don't want
to be a part of I'm a singer, even all
the way down to I did, I did the I
did what challenge? I just do was the fortunate challenge
and I just you know, I did. I need to

(01:15:17):
check that out, dipping dodge into some stuff and people
and there were people it said, that's horrible. He can't
he can't even sing you, And I was like, we
are living in some wild you can definitely sing. That's

(01:15:40):
that's not true or fair, that's not true. Again, just
the videos I was dancing and didn't work. If that
doesn't mean what are you? You don't want this to

(01:16:00):
work with me? Oh man? Anyway? Um, but that's just
you know, where we are. And I feel like I
feel like she was, you know, just just me speculating
her trying to find her her fine room to be talented.
She found it, and I don't even think I don't
think she realizes what she's done for the creatives. I

(01:16:22):
hope she does. She's she's she's freed a lot of creatives.
She's created an under an overground railroad for people to
feel like, oh I can sing, I can actually right
some dope ship and sing some dope ship and it

(01:16:43):
go crazy cool. I remember listening to that album. I
was on one of my solo journeys in Sedona, and
I was taking a walk in the Red Rocks and
I was digesting this album and weeping at the freedom
that I heard from her as an artist, and just
being so inspired and just like so happy for her

(01:17:04):
made me too. I didn't know what the album was
gonna do, and all that it's done is phenomenal, but
it was an accomplishment enough to have done it, and
I was just like, Wow, this is so great. We're
building an R and B voltron. Okay, so it goes

(01:17:29):
vocals style, performance style, and passion. All right, So let's
start with the vocal to make your R and B votron?
Who are you? Who are you? Grabbing the vocal from
one person. I mean, if it's a male, I want

(01:17:53):
to take period always. Tank is the best smell vocal
is out there. Crazy wow. So you know what? You
know what, since I'm back off sabbatical, we're gonna cheers
to tag me in and he's looking him cry. But

(01:18:20):
because is the time of the woman, I'm going to
chose the lad and I'm gonna choose Jasmine. Start there,
take it, Start there. Vocals from Jasmine Sullivan easy something
gets the same background, will gladly do? Give me a
piano too, so I can play extra keys, background, singing backgrounds,

(01:18:42):
and play keys. Just let me know whenever you're going out. Um,
let's go with the styling. Who do you want your
artists to look like? Dress esthetically? Who're gonna put the
drip on? M damn? Who don't have to look like Beyonce?
Come on? Yeah? Custom yeah everything special, everything special everything. Wait,

(01:19:08):
do I want to look like Beyonce or Solange? I
don't know because both are customs special? Different is very fresh.
I think Solange. I think Solange is very she She
has this earth earthy thing too that's very organic that
I think. I know the bees want to get me that.

(01:19:28):
I think b might have gotten from her. I think
they're both inspired by some way, in some way shape,
because I felt like Solange was in my mind, out
of out of their whole thing. She was the first
like earthy one who was just like grounded in in
these neutral tones and in these linens and this just comfortable,

(01:19:49):
comfortable space that wasn't overdone or over anything. You know
what I'm saying, Like, I feel like she was there.
So I mean, you picked which one? Every one you
want me, they're all they're kind of wanting the set. Okay,
you know what I'm just gonna say. Okay, so voice
of Jazz and Sullivan aesthetic of Solange. I love that

(01:20:15):
um performance style. Who stage presents? Do you want to
give your volt um? Bobby Brown? Mhm, there's no argue, right,

(01:20:46):
You're making her one name. Yeah, she's aggressive. Listen. I
mean we've I mean I was, you know back there.
You know My first concert was you know, the New
Edition Any Heartbreak Tour Come On, where one man was
given new addition everything they needed by himself with two

(01:21:07):
other dancers. He was giving them everything they needed. I
was like, oh my god, he is an animal. He's
an animal man. A manimal. Man he was a manimal
and maybe at that time. I'm telling you guys, New
England is different. It is. It is. Listen, I pick

(01:21:28):
up agree, Okay, last one, passion. Who do you want
to get the heart from? M hm? Yes, I said
what I said was passion. I said it almost is painful.

(01:21:54):
First note, you feel it absolutely? I just really really
love her. Wow, special Special Special Talent Special said I'm horrible. Listen, listen.
She thinks she got off? Yeah no, no, no, let's

(01:22:17):
how quickly using this one because we got a very
important segment of the show. It's called I Ain't saying
no names? Yeah yeah, Will you tell us a story
funnier fucked up? Oh good. The only rule is you
don't say any names, and it could be funny and
fucked up because you used the most things that's sucked up.
It's kind of funny. So I gotta do is just

(01:22:40):
not say their names. So this is Joe Joe's I
ain't saying no names with no prep, no prep. Hmm.
Can you give me an example you have told? Did
you tell one when I was suspending it? I don't

(01:23:02):
think so, Oh no way, I don't think I told one.
Can you start, please to make me just a little
more comfortable. This has never happened in the history of
I ain't saying no names like this is. This has
never happened. Um, I ain't saying no names. So you

(01:23:29):
put trying to put the pressure on me. This is
while you think of yours. I'll see what's going on.
I see what's going on. Um, thanks are saying no names.
I ain't saying no names. Um, this is funny. I was,

(01:24:01):
I was. I was beefing with this, with this this
one guy like real beef um and started off basketball
basketball beef. And I felt like this person wasn't being fair,
you know, and we're supposed to be you know, common ground.

(01:24:22):
You know, we're both artists. You know, we're supposed to
play the game fair. You know, I'm saying of us
played professionally, but the game is at least supposed we
played right. And this person didn't want to play the
game the right way. And so since since he didn't
want to play the game the right way, I decided
I didn't want to play the right game the game

(01:24:42):
the right way with him, and it got aggressive. It
went into you know, name calling. I'm a very nice guy,
but I had been pushed into that other other other
place where now you're a bitch ass niggas. Everybody you
went they bit your too, who wanted let's get it

(01:25:03):
all during the game. So the game is over and
the game ends, I win, my team wins, and as
they leave, there's still bit chass niggas. Mm hmm. Cut
to we go to the city that this person is from,
and someone who's with me was like, man, you know

(01:25:26):
such and such would love to just you know, they
love you, the big fans. They started, things got weird
and such and such, you know, got kicked off, you know,
the wrong kind of way. But you know they would
just love you to come out to gym, hang out
and and and just hoop with him. And I'm like,
fucking bit chass niggas. You know what I'm saying. I'm there.
So it takes a little little finessing, a little convincing

(01:25:46):
to get me to go. I'm like, you know what,
I'll go, fuck it whatever. And so when I get
to the gym, it's just me and the guy who
I was with, and it's him, and you know it's
him and all you know, all his all his guys,
his goons, he's, he's, he's, you know, we're in his city,
and I'm expecting you know, I'm expecting some static. You

(01:26:13):
know what I'm saying. I'm I'm all prepared in my
mind to swing first. I'm prepared. But you know what
I'm saying, I'm like, it sounded like a piece call,
but I'm gonna prepare myself just in case I gotta
get actor is what it is, you know what I'm saying.
And it's only two of us. We may take the
l but I'm ready to take that. So we're walk

(01:26:34):
in the gym, and as soon as we're walk in
the gym, this person is like he sees me get called.
He's like, come on, man, you come on. You know
I love you, man, come on, we we can't be
like this. And as he goes to give me the embrace,
he starts tickling me here just like you know, right

(01:27:01):
in here. Not the only problem with that is that
I'm really ticklish. So I'm trying to tell him stuff
and he's tickling me, and I try to finally fight
him off, and we tap it up and we hug
it out and we get back cool, and we proceed

(01:27:22):
to play basketball for the next three hours. No beef,
super cool, but he he tickled me um back into
being kind of being his friend. I want to squash
a beef. So listen, I hope you're ready for yours,

(01:27:49):
because well, I'm gonna say how him is he's not
gonna disrespect my segment by telling a story that he
told on somebody el this podcast. First of all, First
of all, no, list it ain't saying I didn't. It wasn't.
You don't even know whatever. I know who it was,

(01:28:12):
and I'm not gonna let my segments see disrespect is
you see I didn't try to First of all, where's
human resources when I need them? He's right there. First
of all, I'm this nigga man, I'm not even on
It's not even me, it's her. I was giving her
time to get herself together. So I told a quick stories,
disrespected my segment and told a story he told before

(01:28:40):
my story. This is what's my true house, and just
omitted the Hey guys, I'm gonna have to plead the
fifth here. I'm going to plead the fifth because I
I'm going to be writing a book and I want
to say all the stories. I'm going to be the

(01:29:07):
hardest parton you started. Look, you just started. I started,
you started it. You started. Jojo came here today. I
didn't start this and ran out on. I ain't saying
on that. I never expected he ran out. I expected.
Everyone is protesting. She's gonna she's gonna tell all of

(01:29:28):
her stories in one book. She can't say no, you're right,
it's not possible. She can't say no. Pressure. Okay, oh god,
this is horrible. I felt really bad about this, but
since we're not naming no names, I guess it's I
just feel like this, this is messy, Like I don't

(01:29:50):
like telling other people's stuff. I just feel sad. I
don't like telling my own stuff necessarily. But somebody let
me know that they were taking time off from making
music because they got full from neck to ankle uh
surgery meaning like sucked everywhere out, and that they were

(01:30:12):
wrapped like a mummy. And um, this was someone that
I would never expect to have um gone under the knife,
let alone to like and that which which I thought
was kind of extreme. You know what I'm saying, And
I'm saying telling you this tidbit to just say you
never know what bitches out here doing for real, because

(01:30:34):
even if it looked natural, you just don't know. So
my mind was blown and and my I was just like,
sometimes I feel quite naive to what people actually do
to like look a certain way. And then I'm like,
oh my God, like you you when when they see
you snatched in a little a little while, it's not
just because you were in the gym, but for the
last three months or whatever, it's because you you were

(01:30:57):
wrapped like a mummy. You got it all m This
is yeah, I've definitely showing up somewhere and seeing somebody
wrapped like a mommy before. Yeah. See, I just I'm naive. Yeah,
I experienced the first before it was away, before it
was back then, before it was the thing, before it

(01:31:20):
was even like I don't even know it was possible. Um,
all right. I had met a girl and the city
that she lived in, and then it's just been in contact,
just doing this phone stuff. And then when she came
to l A, I went met up with her again

(01:31:42):
and I was like, I don't I don't remember that
being like that. Let me test you, and you know,
as you go through the process of unveiling it He's like,
where did where did you? Where did you get this? Honestly,

(01:32:08):
because it wasn't a thing at that time. We're so
early in the two thousands that I couldn't wrap my
mind around how this was possible. Yeah, I saw something
in the gym yesterday that really defied all logic for
me as far as proportion on a human being. I

(01:32:29):
just I just want. Here's what I want. And I
think that maybe maybe I want too much. I want
if you're going to get extra cake at it. I
wanted to match your thighs, right, That's what I want.

(01:32:49):
I wanted to sit within the circumference of your horse.
That's what I want. I want you to not look
like an aunt. That's that's just all I want. I
don't want you to not do anything to help you

(01:33:11):
feel good about yourself, whatever you feel like you want
to do and need to do. I don't think they do.
I think what happens is they wake up and they
and they now they look like an aunt, and they
have to decide if they're going to accept the ant
life or not. Because you can you can, you can

(01:33:35):
see it on a diagram. That's one thing. But once
things start to happening, and and once the surgery is
over and once like there's always a difference. There's always oh,
this is a little bit more than what what I
what I thought? Yeah, this is this is and what
do you do? Oh to go down? Trust me. After

(01:33:57):
about that's about six months, it'll go back too. And
sometimes it just it stays. It stays, and you know,
outside of it being unsafe, it becomes a little unsavory.
And first I want to tell women, you are amazing

(01:34:18):
how God made you. But if you feel the need
for enhancements, I just feel like there should be um,
there should be a level of proportion. My OCD makes
me count everything proportionately. I have to have enough slices
of cheese to go with the right amount of crackers.
There has to be enough cheese on the beyond burger

(01:34:42):
to go with the bunt, or I have to take
the rest of that bun off. The need bun to
go with the burger can't be excess. But yeah, it's
just what It's just how I look at things. I say,
do what you do that just don't mean I'm gonna
date you. And I want to say as a female,
as a woman, there is so much pressure to look

(01:35:03):
a certain way. Two from who from it could be
from us. I'm not saying it's from from men. No, No,
I'm just saying, like I think social media, I think
that media in general, the the images, the messages that
were bombarded with can be really hard to not be
influenced by that. So I really feel with and by

(01:35:26):
the way that the person who I didn't name looks
fantastic and looks natural. But it was my my naive
tay that was like colluctus pearls, Like really, I didn't
know that kind of experiencing that. Do you think that
we inn entertainment have to do a better job of
recognizing and acknowledging beauty in its natural state? And we

(01:35:51):
have to do that and everything we we we push everything,
We are the driving forcing culture. Music. Everything is arts
with us. If we're going to be violent, it's going
to because of the music. If we're going to be peaceful,
it's going to be because of the music. Music used
to stop wars, now it's starting. So everything comes from

(01:36:16):
the music. Absolutely, we make songs about natural women, it'll
be more natural women. We make songs about I'm gonna
get this down for you it's gonna be more women
trying to get those things down. So it's it's it's
also the music being made. It's also the music being pushed.
So similar to what you said, I don't know if
we were on camera before that, but the executives do

(01:36:39):
decide what the narrative is going to be. Yeah, the
major is what we hear the most. So if we're
talking about what's going on in hip hop, what's going
on culturally that influences across cultures, um, then that is
kind of like the powers that be that are still
pushing a certain right. So I don't know who's fault.

(01:37:02):
It is necessarily that we are as like consumer driven
or like into material items and looking a certain way
and all that stuff, But it definitely is very pervasive
to go to to speak to the machine. The machine
really thrives off thrives off of the demand, and so

(01:37:27):
once the machine sees that there's a demand for a
reaction to a certain thing, then that machine is going
to figure out how to over serve to get the
most out of that. And as long as as long
as the community continues to buy in, they will continue

(01:37:51):
to super serve. I think it's just a two parter.
It's a two parter because like it goes back to
like when we has heard when we first heard a
bitch in the song what we like? But then he
was at the club and and you saw all the
girls in the club saying bitch. It was like, oh,

(01:38:12):
it's okay, now it works, so we can use And
from there it just became super service where now it's
just like us, it's common place. It's not even though
I mean and and for for women and other communities,
it's we use it as a term of endearment, you know.

(01:38:34):
So um, And I think that insecurity is there's so
much money to be made off of our insecurity as women.
So there's industries that thrive off of our insecurity. So
I think that they keep you know this, Oh you
could be a little smaller in the ways, you could
be a little bigger here, you could be a little
slimmer here. Why don't you get you know, all these
different things there there's industries that are predicated on us

(01:38:56):
not loving ourselves as we are. So I think that's
really important to keep in mind too. I'm not saying
that I'm transcended, because I absolutely haven't. I definitely do
all the lasers, all the things I'm trying to you know,
keep sipping from the fountain of you. So it's you
look good, Thank you, you look natural. Thank you. So UM,
we at the Army Money Podcast love you however you

(01:39:20):
want to be, however you want to be represented, We
love you. We love how God made you. And however doctor,
God made the doctor. God made Listen, God made the doctor,
but God gave the doctor free will. It's all God made.

(01:39:43):
It's all God made. You know what I'm saying. You
can't take God out of anything. Um, listen, ladies and gentlemen. UM,
this has been a very special Army Money Podcast for
us because you are very special in dear to us. UM.
That's a fact. You know that for sure. And we
just to make sure the world knows that you have
home in my heart, period point blank. UM. We've we've

(01:40:07):
we've seen so many uh so many of the same
things together at the same time. We've been fighting at
the same time, we've been rejoicing at the same time,
crying at the same time, and laughing at the same
time as well. UM. I just I just commend you
and salute you on continuing and that's it. Continuing to

(01:40:29):
do what you do, continue loving what you do, continue
being an inspiration. Um, be enough, hope, light for everyone
who wants to not even just do what you do,
but even just be you, be like you like, continue.
Thank you for your being a living example, being like

(01:40:54):
the way you live. I'm saying it is an example,
the way you have moved, the way you've just thank
you for being who you are. And I'm very very
honored to be a part of this renaissance that the
genre is going through and to see it happened, to
be a fan of music and then to just you know,
be be a part of it all. Soo very very grateful.

(01:41:14):
I don't take that lightly. I know ah what it means,
and it's just I really think that we're in an
amazing time to be making music. So I feel very
very lucky. Well, ladies and gentlemen. Um, yeah, your last
word shavy nothing you know what? Yes? Yes, one last thing.

(01:41:35):
When is the Brandy and Joe Joe? When is this
going to happen? Because I don't know if you remembers
back year's back studio, I think I had been in
a session with Brandy and I mentioned your name, and
then I saw you after and I mentioned her name,
and then I went on Twitter and I said, I'm

(01:41:58):
gonna make Brandy Joe do it. It's like one of
the one things I haven't brought to life, like a
bit of a failure. It's not it's not over. I'm
waiting on over. Call it out. You know what. Need
We have talked about it. We are in communication and

(01:42:21):
we're you know, I think that we got to do it.
As my brother ray J would say that it's my
one week, come on now. And here's another cool thing.
Right as you are so dope as you are, you're
still like you're you still have this openness of and
willingness to wanting to receive new information, Like like when

(01:42:45):
we went in the studio and thank you for accepting
the call um to do somebody else. That is amazing.
First of all, you went crazy. I was just I
was just following your but but we're getting the studio
and you're like, walk me through it, give me, give
me the vibe, give me the give it to me

(01:43:07):
like line by, like just give me the essence. And
I was like okay, because I was just content with
you know, just like I remember us walking through it
line by line and within us kind of collaborating on
what the essence was gonna be. You just went off

(01:43:29):
into this place. It just took it up. Like that song.
What people say about that song and your performance on
this song, on that song, still they're still upset with me.
We don't have a visual for that song. Dumb, so

(01:43:52):
such a good son. This super funny. I thought I
thought there was gonna be like a look with words,
that fucking dumb shoot the video. Dumb asked, we're gonna
shoot a video to somebody else? Okay, fuck it? Why not?

(01:44:12):
Because we can't do whatever we want to do. People
love the song what we want to do. People love this.
We're gonna make a video to somebody else? All right?
Are we doing that? Yes? Send me treatment? What do
you mean believe you? Shit? You don't believe me. First
you told a remixed story to me my segment. Now

(01:44:34):
you're giving her bullshit about somebody pound me. You're not
gonna pound me. I can't even get a pound a video.
We are going to shoot a video to somebody else.
That is my word to the creator. Jojo will not
come on my podcast. And and it's piste and use

(01:44:58):
the word dumb, fucking dumb. It was, it was. It
was a moment. That's so when you asked me to
be on that song, I'm like Uncle Texter Red, you know,
it was. It was so exciting that we we were
finally going to do a record together first of all,
and it was it was, it was. It was a
fan favorite and sometimes trying to get you know, get

(01:45:21):
the partners to believe that the fan favorite should have
a visual and all these things to stuff still. But
I'll shoot it myself. I'll spend my own money. Don't
charge me a lot for glam. I'm gonna be worse

(01:45:42):
because she likes she don't look good, she don't look right. Listen,
did you do You did your own makeup today? Right?
You look amazing? So Joe's makeup take And this has
been the arm Be Money podcast with our family member,

(01:46:04):
our loved one, give it up for Thank you so much, guys,
finally finally being Money

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Tank

J. Valentine

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