April 8, 2021 • 27 mins
In this interview with her new wife Jessica, Niecy Nash reveals how she went from two marriages to men to falling in love with a woman. The newlyweds set the record straight about their relationship and how they fell in love
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Red Table Pop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and
I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
on Apple Podcasts. This is going to be an eye
(00:24):
opening red Table for sure. I'm excited for this show.
Let me ask all the women out there a question.
If your entire life you've been attracted to only men,
do you think you could ever fall in love with
a woman? Gam Yeah, was there ever a time that
you were ever attracted to a woman? Thought about being
(00:47):
with a woman or anything of that name, And of
course you think about it, but I just never I
just never had that attraction. So I just couldn't get there.
I just wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't just wasn't for me.
It wasn't for me either. I love being amongst women,
but I never could connect to women romantically. But it's
(01:09):
not to say that it couldn't be. You just never
know exactly. I could see you falling in love with
a woman one day. I've had my fair share of
like swooning and being like, oh my god, she's so beautiful,
she's so talented swooned a lot. I will say that
I've gotten I've had two times I've been like infatuated
(01:30):
with a woman. I've swooned two times early early on,
you know, like, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't
feel like I've been in love with a woman just yet,
but I definitely feel like it could happen because I've
had very strong feelings for women before. You just said
something so interesting to me the other day. Would be like, Mom,
(01:53):
you think if anything ever happened with you and Dad,
I think you could be with a woman. Like what
I mean, this is the thing that feeling that you
get when you're with your sisters, that understanding and that
acceptance and that that softness. I feel like it's very
appealing specifically to me. I mean it seems like you
guys aren't very into it, which is all good. I
(02:15):
just never allowed myself to even experiment with it. And
I know I've thought about, oh wow, a threesome might
be really enjoyable, but just could never. You know how
I was raised with all that guilt and shame around sex,
so I definitely didn't have the freedom to consider it.
As far as love is concerned. Are you expressing interest game?
I've always had an interest. What'sn't what's interesting about it?
(02:38):
It just seems like sexually it would be extremely pleasurable, exactly.
Let's put it on the table. It's out there. It
will be really pleasurable. Absolutely. I've had conversations with my
husband about it, but I just I don't know. I
think it's too late in my life to to be
(02:58):
that experimental at this age. I don't think so. I
feel I'm not well. If I wasn't willing to do it,
then I'm not. I'm still not willing to do it now.
So we're brought to bring to the table one of
our favorite ladies in the game. Ncy Nash is an actress, comedian,
and host who has made headlines with her bold and
(03:18):
outspoken relationship advice. She has three beautiful children with her
first husband, pastor Don Nash. Then she married electrical engineer
Jay Tucker and a storybook wedding. I'm looking forward to
the rest of my life, but that marriage ended as well.
Six months ago a plot twist, Nisy shocked everyone when
(03:40):
she married a woman. Sharing this photo with the caption
Mrs Carol Denise bets. So let's welcome miss niece. Oh yeah,
I got to care mom come true? Do you look?
Thank you? Thank you all for having me the famous
(04:04):
red girl. You got it. Listen now let me tell
you this. I know we got so much to cover,
but let me just say, the very first time I
met your husband, I decided in my mind that your
daddy is gonna be my mate. In my mind. The
same night I decided and Will was gonna be my man.
(04:27):
My first husband asked me to marry him the same night,
and so we had this long running joke in my
family with my children. Anytime we've seen your daddy on
the billboard a commercial, I go that almost could have
been your dad, to cry, we love you. We won't
be her daddy, that is yes, But I love you guys,
(04:52):
and thank you all for having me at the table.
I appreciate. So let's dive in. Let's do what I'm
at the table. Let's start with you really surprised everybody
absolutely When did you know that you were going to
make this change in your life. I met the most
beautiful soul I had ever met in my entire life,
(05:14):
and after spending time together, I was like, oh, this, honey,
this fits me like an old pair of jeans I
didn't add in the classet my life. You know that
one pair of jeans, no matter how much weight you game.
And it was something that said, I don't want to
be away from this energy. Did you have any concern
(05:36):
about how it would be received by the world. There
was a time, There was a time in life where
I literally was that woman, where I believed and lived
my life such that you have to put other people's feelings, thoughts, needs,
and one before your own. And sometimes I feel like
I was socialized into this black woman's martyr club. And
(06:01):
it is not until I got a little more seasoned
when I realized something. It's room with this picture. I'm
not going to tell you there is not concerned there.
But regardless of what side the line you want, it's
not gonna change what I'm gonna do. That I felt
like I was in a situation with my soul mate.
(06:24):
So that's different that she's the first woman, the first woman.
So you've never been attracted to women in your life? Wow,
I've never dated a woman in my life until now.
What was it and why I'm so interested? That's because
I've been with men all my life, right, so I
(06:46):
can't imagine, not to say that it couldn't happen, but
I can't imagine like meeting a woman falling in love
getting married. I've dated me in all my life to
married a couple of them. But it was the first
time in my life I had ever felt fully seen.
I understand that, and it changed me. And the other
(07:07):
thing that I think gets harder for people is when
you don't fit in the box we put you in,
we thought you were there, change up on me, you
know what. And what I say to that is I
am everything you thought I was. I just laid my
head somewhere else. Yeah, and I can still act, I
can host, I can do the things, you know what.
I mean, everything you thought I was more lgbt Q
(07:33):
plus niece, here you go. I thought it was extremely courageous.
And you know, I'm always ready to applaud someone who
is willing to live their life in freaking truth, no
matter what people have to say about it, and specifically
(07:54):
being a black woman that layer right there. Sure, sure
you know how we are giving the same leanion scene
to expand grow be different. How was it for your children,
my daughters, were like, wait what. My youngest daughter, she
(08:14):
reminded me. She was like, wait a minute, Mom, are
you the same mom who was like, girl, I'm strict
lydicly And I was like I was like yeah, no, yeah,
yeah no. And my son was like, why my children
were able to meet Jessica before they knew we were dating,
(08:38):
so they were able to meet her inform their own
opinion about her as a person, and they all were like,
oh my god, she's so cool, Oh my god, I
like her. They was exchanging numbers and all of this
and that, so they already liked her. Now what about
your mom? How did she receive it? Girl? Come on, now,
well it's a little bit different because of her generation. Absolutely,
(09:00):
I have never doubted for one second that my mother
loves me. I feel like her fear was how will
you be received? How will I be perceived? I come
from a long, long line of women who felt like
their identities were wrapped up in whether or not they
(09:20):
had a man, blind, cripple, crazy, married a lazy. Get
you one, keep one because it validates you to have
a hymn, and so you put a lot of stock
in that in that and it doesn't really matter about
your happiness. Thank God for therapy because we're all in it.
We've all been in it, and we we in this
(09:42):
a process. I love hearing that you guys are in
therapy figuring it out. You know, my mother will jump
in front of a truck for me, and because she
loves me like she does, she's trying to get this understanding.
And then there are how the others who are in
the church. See, I used to be a former first lady.
My first husband was a past This is so crazy
(10:05):
how people say I'm a believer, I'm in the church,
I'm this are some of the most judgmental people you've
ever met in your life. Again, then it's like, wow, yeah,
you know part of the reason Jessica married me, it's
because I'm anna praying one well. Speaking of Jessica, Yes, yes,
(10:27):
Nasy introduced your new bride to the day. Introducing to
some and presenting to others is the greatest love of
my life. Jessica, Hi, you, I know you don't like
(10:47):
my live bloss on you he little Sean, the little Boco. Ny.
I hope you don't mind me saying you are cute.
I gotta give you that. Yeah, just what was it
(11:08):
about NISI for you? I knew something was special about her,
and I knew that I wanted her when I desired
nobody else. That's beautiful. Who made the first move? The
first move? You made the first move from a woman
talking about she was strictly a lot of people think
(11:32):
that this little thundercat just came in here and picked
me up and turned me every which way but loose. Uh.
I gave myself permission to feel what I felt in
the moment and to be unapologetic about it. But technically
it didn't start as a date. No, it didn't know.
We were just friends. She was living in New Jersey
at the time. I was filming in New Jersey, Got It.
(11:54):
I stayed five minutes from her house. She called me
and it was like, what you're doing. I said, I'm
going to get some crabs and she was like, oh,
I want to go. We had wine and crabs, and
when we talked this time, my eyes crossed and I
saw her different in that moment, and I was like, hey,
(12:15):
you know what I mean. So y'all went and got
crabs exchange some energy exchange. You was like, Okay, wait
a minute, what's going on? Here, then you want to
come back to my place and watch one of my
favorite movies. Then right before the end of the movie,
I did like that, and that was it, And in
my mind I was like, oh my god, what the
hell is going on? The minute she put her hand
(12:38):
on my head and touched my hand, I got those
butterflies and I was like, damn, so let me just
ask you. When you put your hand behind her neck
that night? Did you get a kiss? Not right then,
but when I went in the kitchen and she was
getting ready to leave, and so she's like, well, I'm
about to go, and I said okay, and then I
kissed her on the cheek kind of but no one
(12:59):
was on the cheese, but it was like I kissed
her on the cheek like you could get you lay down. Sorry,
(13:19):
that's right side. That's amazing. Who in the relationship said
I love you first? Oh, good question. I did. But
she was like, I'm coming out there to see you
and I gotta tell you something. But I'm gonna tell you.
I'm gonna tell you face to face. I really knew
what you was gonna say, and I was practicing. I
(13:39):
was like, I love you too, I love you I
love you too, So I want to ask you something.
I want to go back for a moment with your
prior relationships. I want to know exactly me what you
(14:00):
were looking for in those relationships, right versus what you
have now. Well, when I married my first husband, I
was looking for a savior. I had experienced a lot
of childhood trauma. My mother was shot with a sawed
off double barrel shotgun in front of my face. Her
only son, which is my only brother, was murdered, and
(14:22):
I was in so much pain. And my children's father
stepped in and he was like, I got you, and
I was like, let's go. I through everything I had
in a duffel bag and hit it. And I'm not
gonna tell you I didn't love him, but I am
gonna tell you that I needed saving. And I stayed
in that marriage for seventeen years, to a large degree
the latter years because we had a church together, and
(14:44):
it was this weight on me. You can't divorce. You're
a Christian, you can't get divorced. And I said, but
I know the God I served and called me to
be miserable and unhappy my whole life. I feel like
I'm doing a slow dance with death. I gotta get
out of here. I know a lot of people say
I stayed for my children, but I left for my
children because I wanted them to see what real love
(15:04):
look like and to show them that sometimes you have
to make hard decisions in order to live your truth.
And that's a huge lesson that so many kids need
to know. So can we talk about your second marriage? Yeah,
because your wedding was a TV special? Oh yeah, I
forget that, I did. I got married on TV. I mean,
you know what, I don't forgot everything? You know? Oh
(15:28):
my goodness. So you said that your first marriage you
were looking for a savior. Your second marriage, do you
know what you were looking for there? I feel like
my second marriage, I wanted partnership, and I also wanted
to be married, and I met a man who wanted
to be married, and we said let's give it a go.
(15:49):
And I don't have a mean or a bad thing
to say about anybody who I married, because they were
all kind people. They all they were just different. But
what I will say is that I think that there
is something to being in a situation where you're unfulfilled.
People like you know, old school, be like well, the
(16:10):
man ain't hitting you, is it, you know what I mean? No,
he's not. He's he's the most gentle soul in the world.
That I mean. I gotta stay with the man because
I can so relate to that. You know. So they
want to know what what what you're leaving for exact
and I felt like this is different. Yes, and when
(16:34):
this came to be, you aren't really looking for nothing? No, no,
she wasn't. She was very reluctant. I was chasing her.
I was like, good morning, good afternoon, okay. For two reasons.
One because I had said, on the other side of
this marriage, I'm gonna get me a little young, twenty
(16:55):
five year old something stale in this and you know what,
I lived my life and just I'm gonna run these
bachelorette streets. The second reason was because I was fearful
that our friendship might not survive it. I never want
(17:18):
this person to not be in my life. So I
don't know what the running rules are. And let me
just tell yourselfing. I'm gonna say this to everybody who've
been in the community or its community adjason, I haven't
got a welcome packet. I welcome pack about lbgt Q
comunit somebody because I not even know. I was like,
(17:42):
I don't even know what I'm doing. I just know
that this is the most beautiful soul I've ever met
in my life. And you mind, there you go, what
do you say to people who say that you're a lesbian?
Labels are such an interesting thing. And it was funny
because it was my youngest baby who was like some
(18:04):
show that's on YouTube. She was like, Mom, you have
to watch this show so you can figure out how
you identify. I said, identified with what? You know what
I mean? And she was like, you know, you have
to know what you are. And I was like, I'm
your mother, you know. So she made me watch. This
thing had all of the explanations of different terms, you know,
(18:25):
buying theary, non buyingary, cisi, gender, this thing bab about butcher, baker,
candlestick making. After the thing went out, I said, girl,
I'm just confused now. And a lot of people have
said at the beginning, Nis Nash has finally come out,
and I said, we'll come out of where because I
wasn't in anywhere. I wasn't living a sexually repressed life.
(18:48):
I love the boys. I was with when I was
with them, and now this is who I love. I
wasn't living a lie or trying to make myself like
a man. I like them. I like them real good.
But then I'm on the no note. If I had
(19:08):
to label myself in this moment, I wouldn't label myself
with the term free. And here is the interesting thing.
We were friends for about four and a half years
before anything. I come across a film that she was in.
It was a documentary. She was playing her music and
(19:29):
I just following social media. That's all I did. And
I never looked at her and was like, oh, you
could get it. It was none of that. I didn't
think anything like that. And eventually she followed me back right,
and what you're smiling? Fun? Because I remember that moment.
(19:50):
I love it, And a lot of people think, can
I clear that? Cleared up? People think that we were
in a relationship while I was still married, which is
I don't know what cameras on me, all of y'all over,
that's a lot. She was in a long term relationship too,
so we both were with our people for ten years.
The relationship prior. You know, I just thought that was
(20:11):
the end all beyond. You couldn't. You couldn't have told
me that that wasn't my person. Yeah, so there is
this miss information in the world that we became a
thing on the set of a TV series that I
was doing called Clause on TNT. People thought not only
(20:33):
were we a vibe years ago, but they also thought
she was the wedding singer at my wedding to my
second husband. Were like some internet conspiracy. There was no
hanky panky, no footsies, no how you doing girl, no flirting, no, no, no,
(20:57):
you know how they do. They hug you and then
they dipped the small of your vast None of that.
None of that happened. I can say for me. I
never cheated on my last hus I never did that.
And when we got together it was when that was over.
But when the world found out about my divorce, we
had already filed. I had been living in another house.
It made it look like to the world five minutes,
(21:20):
she was just what she just married. I got a
lot of that in social media. It was just married.
No I wasn't. I'm not looking in at your every
inner day life. Yeah. So they pieced the pieces together
to make a story that they could handle. So I
want to hear about the proposal. Skinny dipping in the
hot tub, skinny dipping in the hotel. If I was
(21:44):
telling If I was telling it, I was, we were
in the hot time. But you gotta add the skinny.
That's right, go ahead. I'm just let me hush going on.
She was getting on my nerves that day. Actually, you said,
if anybody gonna get on my nerves, it's gonna be
you married me. Oh God, I can't with the impersonation. Yeah, man, whatever,
(22:13):
that's exactly what I said. Yeah, every man, I said, yeah, man, whatever. Whatever.
She gives me a ring, I'm like, well, let's go
open a bout. But she's like, when do I get
my ring? I said, well, you're supposed to get it
at the way. I said, that's tradition. We ain't traditional people.
(22:34):
And I said, you're right. I'll be right back. And
I went upstairs and got her red and came back
downstairs and I said, married me. I already had. So
we engaged each other the same night. And when we
got into bed, you have this smile from here to here.
And I snapped that picture of her and it's one
of my said, oh look at that That was the
(23:03):
night we got engaged. You can feel the energy from
that photo, like such joy. We got engaged July three
and we got married all this twenty nine. It was
a short engagement. Yeah, that's how we did. We got
married in our backyard. We sang shallows all night and
drank champagne. So let me ask you a question, your
relationships prior we're with women. Yes, yes, yes. It was
(23:26):
interesting for me, you know, growing up because I was
raised by a pastor, you know, so it was the
courage for me came so much earlier. We were ka.
It wasn't Baptist, it was Church Christ but it's one
of the strictest of it. And I realized then I
was like, wow, you know, I have to tell my
grandmother that I yeah, you know, I'm different. I was
(23:50):
named after my grandmother. You know. It was such a
high and great expectation from her for me. She was
the first black female preacher on the South Side of Chicago,
so she had a lot of pressure that was on
her shoulders and what everybody else was saying. So it
was you know, you need to get a husband, and
it's a bunch of condemnation, you know, when we first
(24:10):
decided we were going to be in a relationship, I said,
I need to meet your grandmama and she she was like, yeah, yeah,
all right, you know, but I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
let's put it on the books that we will be
going I get to meet her. Your grandmama loved me.
She said, y'all gonna do this. She said, you know,
you know what God saying about it, and you're gonna
(24:31):
do it anyway. You're gonna say yes'. She said, well
all right. She said, well love each other, love each other,
and y'all take care of each other. And there was
her last birthday. Unfortunately she passed on the seventeenth of December,
but she has been one of my greatest inspirations. And
while we were there, I look up on the road
and I said, this freeway says St. Louis and I said,
(24:54):
that's what my grandmama is. And she said, you want
to go see your grandma and I was like, so
we we took a road trip and my grandmother met
her and fell in love, love, love, love, And then
(25:14):
she called my mama and said, leave them kids alone.
Let that girl going to be happy. She said, if
you want anything for your children above all else, you
should want them to be happy. Let me tell you
that's where that grown ass wisdom comes in because she
know at the end of the day, it don't matter
at all that let it go. Just being able to
(25:36):
experience the two of you together has just been a blessing.
And I just want you to know that glow you've
got going right now, the way you look at your
partner right there. Okay, Can I just tell you that's
where it sat. I lovingly call her my husbands. We
both say it to each other all the time. This
(25:57):
is absolutely the best person, the best thing that has
ever happened to me, and she says the same about me,
and that is that is our truth. I thank God
for you, actually m for you. Well, thank God for
you to my love. I'm so glad that you came
to the table. I really am. I mean this, this
has been enlightening in a lot of different ways. You know,
(26:20):
I enjoyed the red table talk. This is what's up. Okay,
I'm so glad you came. I really am. Thank you
for having me. Yeah, I'm going to host the GLAD
Awards and we don't have a good time Okay, we'll
see you there. Let me tell you you are just
just gushy, jovial fun, you know. And I just I
(26:42):
think the last time we saw each other was at
That is Fast. That was the last time we saw
each other. And I love seeing you just happy, just
being in the midst of love is always just beautiful.
To join the red table Talk family and become a
part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com
slash red table talk. Thanks for listening to this episode
(27:05):
of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio,
and I Heart Radio.
Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Red Table Pop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and
I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
on Apple Podcasts. This is going to be an eye
(00:24):
opening red Table for sure. I'm excited for this show.
Let me ask all the women out there a question.
If your entire life you've been attracted to only men,
do you think you could ever fall in love with
a woman? Gam Yeah, was there ever a time that
you were ever attracted to a woman? Thought about being
(00:47):
with a woman or anything of that name, And of
course you think about it, but I just never I
just never had that attraction. So I just couldn't get there.
I just wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't just wasn't for me.
It wasn't for me either. I love being amongst women,
but I never could connect to women romantically. But it's
(01:09):
not to say that it couldn't be. You just never
know exactly. I could see you falling in love with
a woman one day. I've had my fair share of
like swooning and being like, oh my god, she's so beautiful,
she's so talented swooned a lot. I will say that
I've gotten I've had two times I've been like infatuated
(01:30):
with a woman. I've swooned two times early early on,
you know, like, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't
feel like I've been in love with a woman just yet,
but I definitely feel like it could happen because I've
had very strong feelings for women before. You just said
something so interesting to me the other day. Would be like, Mom,
(01:53):
you think if anything ever happened with you and Dad,
I think you could be with a woman. Like what
I mean, this is the thing that feeling that you
get when you're with your sisters, that understanding and that
acceptance and that that softness. I feel like it's very
appealing specifically to me. I mean it seems like you
guys aren't very into it, which is all good. I
(02:15):
just never allowed myself to even experiment with it. And
I know I've thought about, oh wow, a threesome might
be really enjoyable, but just could never. You know how
I was raised with all that guilt and shame around sex,
so I definitely didn't have the freedom to consider it.
As far as love is concerned. Are you expressing interest game?
I've always had an interest. What'sn't what's interesting about it?
(02:38):
It just seems like sexually it would be extremely pleasurable, exactly.
Let's put it on the table. It's out there. It
will be really pleasurable. Absolutely. I've had conversations with my
husband about it, but I just I don't know. I
think it's too late in my life to to be
(02:58):
that experimental at this age. I don't think so. I
feel I'm not well. If I wasn't willing to do it,
then I'm not. I'm still not willing to do it now.
So we're brought to bring to the table one of
our favorite ladies in the game. Ncy Nash is an actress, comedian,
and host who has made headlines with her bold and
(03:18):
outspoken relationship advice. She has three beautiful children with her
first husband, pastor Don Nash. Then she married electrical engineer
Jay Tucker and a storybook wedding. I'm looking forward to
the rest of my life, but that marriage ended as well.
Six months ago a plot twist, Nisy shocked everyone when
(03:40):
she married a woman. Sharing this photo with the caption
Mrs Carol Denise bets. So let's welcome miss niece. Oh yeah,
I got to care mom come true? Do you look?
Thank you? Thank you all for having me the famous
(04:04):
red girl. You got it. Listen now let me tell
you this. I know we got so much to cover,
but let me just say, the very first time I
met your husband, I decided in my mind that your
daddy is gonna be my mate. In my mind. The
same night I decided and Will was gonna be my man.
(04:27):
My first husband asked me to marry him the same night,
and so we had this long running joke in my
family with my children. Anytime we've seen your daddy on
the billboard a commercial, I go that almost could have
been your dad, to cry, we love you. We won't
be her daddy, that is yes, But I love you guys,
(04:52):
and thank you all for having me at the table.
I appreciate. So let's dive in. Let's do what I'm
at the table. Let's start with you really surprised everybody
absolutely When did you know that you were going to
make this change in your life. I met the most
beautiful soul I had ever met in my entire life,
(05:14):
and after spending time together, I was like, oh, this, honey,
this fits me like an old pair of jeans I
didn't add in the classet my life. You know that
one pair of jeans, no matter how much weight you game.
And it was something that said, I don't want to
be away from this energy. Did you have any concern
(05:36):
about how it would be received by the world. There
was a time, There was a time in life where
I literally was that woman, where I believed and lived
my life such that you have to put other people's feelings, thoughts, needs,
and one before your own. And sometimes I feel like
I was socialized into this black woman's martyr club. And
(06:01):
it is not until I got a little more seasoned
when I realized something. It's room with this picture. I'm
not going to tell you there is not concerned there.
But regardless of what side the line you want, it's
not gonna change what I'm gonna do. That I felt
like I was in a situation with my soul mate.
(06:24):
So that's different that she's the first woman, the first woman.
So you've never been attracted to women in your life? Wow,
I've never dated a woman in my life until now.
What was it and why I'm so interested? That's because
I've been with men all my life, right, so I
(06:46):
can't imagine, not to say that it couldn't happen, but
I can't imagine like meeting a woman falling in love
getting married. I've dated me in all my life to
married a couple of them. But it was the first
time in my life I had ever felt fully seen.
I understand that, and it changed me. And the other
(07:07):
thing that I think gets harder for people is when
you don't fit in the box we put you in,
we thought you were there, change up on me, you
know what. And what I say to that is I
am everything you thought I was. I just laid my
head somewhere else. Yeah, and I can still act, I
can host, I can do the things, you know what.
I mean, everything you thought I was more lgbt Q
(07:33):
plus niece, here you go. I thought it was extremely courageous.
And you know, I'm always ready to applaud someone who
is willing to live their life in freaking truth, no
matter what people have to say about it, and specifically
(07:54):
being a black woman that layer right there. Sure, sure
you know how we are giving the same leanion scene
to expand grow be different. How was it for your children,
my daughters, were like, wait what. My youngest daughter, she
(08:14):
reminded me. She was like, wait a minute, Mom, are
you the same mom who was like, girl, I'm strict
lydicly And I was like I was like yeah, no, yeah,
yeah no. And my son was like, why my children
were able to meet Jessica before they knew we were dating,
(08:38):
so they were able to meet her inform their own
opinion about her as a person, and they all were like,
oh my god, she's so cool, Oh my god, I
like her. They was exchanging numbers and all of this
and that, so they already liked her. Now what about
your mom? How did she receive it? Girl? Come on, now,
well it's a little bit different because of her generation. Absolutely,
(09:00):
I have never doubted for one second that my mother
loves me. I feel like her fear was how will
you be received? How will I be perceived? I come
from a long, long line of women who felt like
their identities were wrapped up in whether or not they
(09:20):
had a man, blind, cripple, crazy, married a lazy. Get
you one, keep one because it validates you to have
a hymn, and so you put a lot of stock
in that in that and it doesn't really matter about
your happiness. Thank God for therapy because we're all in it.
We've all been in it, and we we in this
(09:42):
a process. I love hearing that you guys are in
therapy figuring it out. You know, my mother will jump
in front of a truck for me, and because she
loves me like she does, she's trying to get this understanding.
And then there are how the others who are in
the church. See, I used to be a former first lady.
My first husband was a past This is so crazy
(10:05):
how people say I'm a believer, I'm in the church,
I'm this are some of the most judgmental people you've
ever met in your life. Again, then it's like, wow, yeah,
you know part of the reason Jessica married me, it's
because I'm anna praying one well. Speaking of Jessica, Yes, yes,
(10:27):
Nasy introduced your new bride to the day. Introducing to
some and presenting to others is the greatest love of
my life. Jessica, Hi, you, I know you don't like
(10:47):
my live bloss on you he little Sean, the little Boco. Ny.
I hope you don't mind me saying you are cute.
I gotta give you that. Yeah, just what was it
(11:08):
about NISI for you? I knew something was special about her,
and I knew that I wanted her when I desired
nobody else. That's beautiful. Who made the first move? The
first move? You made the first move from a woman
talking about she was strictly a lot of people think
(11:32):
that this little thundercat just came in here and picked
me up and turned me every which way but loose. Uh.
I gave myself permission to feel what I felt in
the moment and to be unapologetic about it. But technically
it didn't start as a date. No, it didn't know.
We were just friends. She was living in New Jersey
at the time. I was filming in New Jersey, Got It.
(11:54):
I stayed five minutes from her house. She called me
and it was like, what you're doing. I said, I'm
going to get some crabs and she was like, oh,
I want to go. We had wine and crabs, and
when we talked this time, my eyes crossed and I
saw her different in that moment, and I was like, hey,
(12:15):
you know what I mean. So y'all went and got
crabs exchange some energy exchange. You was like, Okay, wait
a minute, what's going on? Here, then you want to
come back to my place and watch one of my
favorite movies. Then right before the end of the movie,
I did like that, and that was it, And in
my mind I was like, oh my god, what the
hell is going on? The minute she put her hand
(12:38):
on my head and touched my hand, I got those
butterflies and I was like, damn, so let me just
ask you. When you put your hand behind her neck
that night? Did you get a kiss? Not right then,
but when I went in the kitchen and she was
getting ready to leave, and so she's like, well, I'm
about to go, and I said okay, and then I
kissed her on the cheek kind of but no one
(12:59):
was on the cheese, but it was like I kissed
her on the cheek like you could get you lay down. Sorry,
(13:19):
that's right side. That's amazing. Who in the relationship said
I love you first? Oh, good question. I did. But
she was like, I'm coming out there to see you
and I gotta tell you something. But I'm gonna tell you.
I'm gonna tell you face to face. I really knew
what you was gonna say, and I was practicing. I
(13:39):
was like, I love you too, I love you I
love you too, So I want to ask you something.
I want to go back for a moment with your
prior relationships. I want to know exactly me what you
(14:00):
were looking for in those relationships, right versus what you
have now. Well, when I married my first husband, I
was looking for a savior. I had experienced a lot
of childhood trauma. My mother was shot with a sawed
off double barrel shotgun in front of my face. Her
only son, which is my only brother, was murdered, and
(14:22):
I was in so much pain. And my children's father
stepped in and he was like, I got you, and
I was like, let's go. I through everything I had
in a duffel bag and hit it. And I'm not
gonna tell you I didn't love him, but I am
gonna tell you that I needed saving. And I stayed
in that marriage for seventeen years, to a large degree
the latter years because we had a church together, and
(14:44):
it was this weight on me. You can't divorce. You're
a Christian, you can't get divorced. And I said, but
I know the God I served and called me to
be miserable and unhappy my whole life. I feel like
I'm doing a slow dance with death. I gotta get
out of here. I know a lot of people say
I stayed for my children, but I left for my
children because I wanted them to see what real love
(15:04):
look like and to show them that sometimes you have
to make hard decisions in order to live your truth.
And that's a huge lesson that so many kids need
to know. So can we talk about your second marriage? Yeah,
because your wedding was a TV special? Oh yeah, I
forget that, I did. I got married on TV. I mean,
you know what, I don't forgot everything? You know? Oh
(15:28):
my goodness. So you said that your first marriage you
were looking for a savior. Your second marriage, do you
know what you were looking for there? I feel like
my second marriage, I wanted partnership, and I also wanted
to be married, and I met a man who wanted
to be married, and we said let's give it a go.
(15:49):
And I don't have a mean or a bad thing
to say about anybody who I married, because they were
all kind people. They all they were just different. But
what I will say is that I think that there
is something to being in a situation where you're unfulfilled.
People like you know, old school, be like well, the
(16:10):
man ain't hitting you, is it, you know what I mean? No,
he's not. He's he's the most gentle soul in the world.
That I mean. I gotta stay with the man because
I can so relate to that. You know. So they
want to know what what what you're leaving for exact
and I felt like this is different. Yes, and when
(16:34):
this came to be, you aren't really looking for nothing? No, no,
she wasn't. She was very reluctant. I was chasing her.
I was like, good morning, good afternoon, okay. For two reasons.
One because I had said, on the other side of
this marriage, I'm gonna get me a little young, twenty
(16:55):
five year old something stale in this and you know what,
I lived my life and just I'm gonna run these
bachelorette streets. The second reason was because I was fearful
that our friendship might not survive it. I never want
(17:18):
this person to not be in my life. So I
don't know what the running rules are. And let me
just tell yourselfing. I'm gonna say this to everybody who've
been in the community or its community adjason, I haven't
got a welcome packet. I welcome pack about lbgt Q
comunit somebody because I not even know. I was like,
(17:42):
I don't even know what I'm doing. I just know
that this is the most beautiful soul I've ever met
in my life. And you mind, there you go, what
do you say to people who say that you're a lesbian?
Labels are such an interesting thing. And it was funny
because it was my youngest baby who was like some
(18:04):
show that's on YouTube. She was like, Mom, you have
to watch this show so you can figure out how
you identify. I said, identified with what? You know what
I mean? And she was like, you know, you have
to know what you are. And I was like, I'm
your mother, you know. So she made me watch. This
thing had all of the explanations of different terms, you know,
(18:25):
buying theary, non buyingary, cisi, gender, this thing bab about butcher, baker,
candlestick making. After the thing went out, I said, girl,
I'm just confused now. And a lot of people have
said at the beginning, Nis Nash has finally come out,
and I said, we'll come out of where because I
wasn't in anywhere. I wasn't living a sexually repressed life.
(18:48):
I love the boys. I was with when I was
with them, and now this is who I love. I
wasn't living a lie or trying to make myself like
a man. I like them. I like them real good.
But then I'm on the no note. If I had
(19:08):
to label myself in this moment, I wouldn't label myself
with the term free. And here is the interesting thing.
We were friends for about four and a half years
before anything. I come across a film that she was in.
It was a documentary. She was playing her music and
(19:29):
I just following social media. That's all I did. And
I never looked at her and was like, oh, you
could get it. It was none of that. I didn't
think anything like that. And eventually she followed me back right,
and what you're smiling? Fun? Because I remember that moment.
(19:50):
I love it, And a lot of people think, can
I clear that? Cleared up? People think that we were
in a relationship while I was still married, which is
I don't know what cameras on me, all of y'all over,
that's a lot. She was in a long term relationship too,
so we both were with our people for ten years.
The relationship prior. You know, I just thought that was
(20:11):
the end all beyond. You couldn't. You couldn't have told
me that that wasn't my person. Yeah, so there is
this miss information in the world that we became a
thing on the set of a TV series that I
was doing called Clause on TNT. People thought not only
(20:33):
were we a vibe years ago, but they also thought
she was the wedding singer at my wedding to my
second husband. Were like some internet conspiracy. There was no
hanky panky, no footsies, no how you doing girl, no flirting, no, no, no,
(20:57):
you know how they do. They hug you and then
they dipped the small of your vast None of that.
None of that happened. I can say for me. I
never cheated on my last hus I never did that.
And when we got together it was when that was over.
But when the world found out about my divorce, we
had already filed. I had been living in another house.
It made it look like to the world five minutes,
(21:20):
she was just what she just married. I got a
lot of that in social media. It was just married.
No I wasn't. I'm not looking in at your every
inner day life. Yeah. So they pieced the pieces together
to make a story that they could handle. So I
want to hear about the proposal. Skinny dipping in the
hot tub, skinny dipping in the hotel. If I was
(21:44):
telling If I was telling it, I was, we were
in the hot time. But you gotta add the skinny.
That's right, go ahead. I'm just let me hush going on.
She was getting on my nerves that day. Actually, you said,
if anybody gonna get on my nerves, it's gonna be
you married me. Oh God, I can't with the impersonation. Yeah, man, whatever,
(22:13):
that's exactly what I said. Yeah, every man, I said, yeah, man, whatever. Whatever.
She gives me a ring, I'm like, well, let's go
open a bout. But she's like, when do I get
my ring? I said, well, you're supposed to get it
at the way. I said, that's tradition. We ain't traditional people.
(22:34):
And I said, you're right. I'll be right back. And
I went upstairs and got her red and came back
downstairs and I said, married me. I already had. So
we engaged each other the same night. And when we
got into bed, you have this smile from here to here.
And I snapped that picture of her and it's one
of my said, oh look at that That was the
(23:03):
night we got engaged. You can feel the energy from
that photo, like such joy. We got engaged July three
and we got married all this twenty nine. It was
a short engagement. Yeah, that's how we did. We got
married in our backyard. We sang shallows all night and
drank champagne. So let me ask you a question, your
relationships prior we're with women. Yes, yes, yes. It was
(23:26):
interesting for me, you know, growing up because I was
raised by a pastor, you know, so it was the
courage for me came so much earlier. We were ka.
It wasn't Baptist, it was Church Christ but it's one
of the strictest of it. And I realized then I
was like, wow, you know, I have to tell my
grandmother that I yeah, you know, I'm different. I was
(23:50):
named after my grandmother. You know. It was such a
high and great expectation from her for me. She was
the first black female preacher on the South Side of Chicago,
so she had a lot of pressure that was on
her shoulders and what everybody else was saying. So it
was you know, you need to get a husband, and
it's a bunch of condemnation, you know, when we first
(24:10):
decided we were going to be in a relationship, I said,
I need to meet your grandmama and she she was like, yeah, yeah,
all right, you know, but I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
let's put it on the books that we will be
going I get to meet her. Your grandmama loved me.
She said, y'all gonna do this. She said, you know,
you know what God saying about it, and you're gonna
(24:31):
do it anyway. You're gonna say yes'. She said, well
all right. She said, well love each other, love each other,
and y'all take care of each other. And there was
her last birthday. Unfortunately she passed on the seventeenth of December,
but she has been one of my greatest inspirations. And
while we were there, I look up on the road
and I said, this freeway says St. Louis and I said,
(24:54):
that's what my grandmama is. And she said, you want
to go see your grandma and I was like, so
we we took a road trip and my grandmother met
her and fell in love, love, love, love, And then
(25:14):
she called my mama and said, leave them kids alone.
Let that girl going to be happy. She said, if
you want anything for your children above all else, you
should want them to be happy. Let me tell you
that's where that grown ass wisdom comes in because she
know at the end of the day, it don't matter
at all that let it go. Just being able to
(25:36):
experience the two of you together has just been a blessing.
And I just want you to know that glow you've
got going right now, the way you look at your
partner right there. Okay, Can I just tell you that's
where it sat. I lovingly call her my husbands. We
both say it to each other all the time. This
(25:57):
is absolutely the best person, the best thing that has
ever happened to me, and she says the same about me,
and that is that is our truth. I thank God
for you, actually m for you. Well, thank God for
you to my love. I'm so glad that you came
to the table. I really am. I mean this, this
has been enlightening in a lot of different ways. You know,
(26:20):
I enjoyed the red table talk. This is what's up. Okay,
I'm so glad you came. I really am. Thank you
for having me. Yeah, I'm going to host the GLAD
Awards and we don't have a good time Okay, we'll
see you there. Let me tell you you are just
just gushy, jovial fun, you know. And I just I
(26:42):
think the last time we saw each other was at
That is Fast. That was the last time we saw
each other. And I love seeing you just happy, just
being in the midst of love is always just beautiful.
To join the red table Talk family and become a
part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com
slash red table talk. Thanks for listening to this episode
(27:05):
of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio,
and I Heart Radio.
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