December 2, 2022 • 38 mins
In an RTT exclusive, Grammy-winning R&B star Ashanti, her younger sister Kenashia “Shia” Douglas and their mom Tina open up about the horrific domestic abuse Shia endured for years. In their first interview together, this tight-knit family shares what they call the “darkest time of their lives.” Shia is bravely revealing what led to chilling photos of bruises, black eyes and broken teeth. Ashanti speaks out about feeling helpless, wanting to take matters into her own hands and the important steps their family took to heal. It’s an eye-opening look at domestic abuse incidents that happen every three seconds in America.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Red Tabletop podcast all your favorite episodes from the Facebook
Watch show in audio, produced by Westbrook Audio and I
Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on
Apple Podcasts, a Red Table Talk exclusive. Prior to hitting me,
he had made threats all I'm gonna do this to you,
(00:21):
and I never believed it. I never thought that the
person that I love would hurt me to that extent.
It literally just punched me in my mouth. It was
like good wrenching for the first time. R and B
superstar Ashanti and her family come together as the older
sister that wants to protect my younger sister. No one
gets a book on how to handle this with a
(00:41):
private family. We don't go telling our business. And I
was like, oh nah. I went in the garage, I
got the bad I pulled up in the truck. I
had basiline. I was ready for a powerful and important conversation.
He had actually already finished strangling me. That was actually
why I had picked up the knife. When I is one,
I had to pull a knife out on somebody too,
(01:03):
and I opening look at the damage and devastation caused
by domestic abuse that happens every three seconds in America.
And I cried out for my mom. I cried out
for my sister because they happened to be there, they
were in the same house. He was bold, here we
(01:24):
are this is very serious topic. Is a very serious topic.
It's one of those topics that touches everybody. Yeah, and
in URTT exclusive, Ashanti, her sister Shea, and their mother
Tina are here to open up about how domestic violence
change their family forever. We're gonna start with Shia. We
(01:46):
saw these photos you and your sister recently shared on
social media, So Shea, can you tell us what was
going on here? That was, Um, the results of my
relationship with my ex. Those series of photos were actually
(02:08):
a few different events. That was the darkest time in
my life. That was after he had pushed me down
the stairs, kicked me. There were so many different instances
and experiences that at the ascount of all of a blur.
But um, that particular instance, we were arguing and he
(02:31):
literally just popped me in my eye. I had sunglasses on.
How did it start out for you? What was the
relationship like in the beginning? I had met him, when
I had just gotten out of high school. I was
just going to college. That was about eighteen or nineteen
years old. I hadn't really had a real relationship, you know,
a real which you would call an adult relationship. In
(02:53):
the beginning, it was pretty fun. He was extremely attentive,
complimenting me on my hair, on my clothes, what I
was wearing. He was giving me the attention that I
felt that I needed and that I desired. It's like, oh,
this feels good. You know, this is a guy who
has a little bit of money who is showing me affection,
(03:14):
attention that I feel I haven't had. It feels good
to have someone shower you with attention. And you never
think in a million years that's going to turn into
Do not ever think that I was connected to him
because I had inner child issues, inner child trauma. I
wanted to feel avoid Can you talk to us a
(03:36):
little bit about or describe what you mean by inner
child issues. Absolutely, the inner child traumas that I experienced
were kind of I would say, because of my sister's career.
Her actual album came out on my thirteenth birthday, like
literally on my thirtee birthday, so it was an exciting
(03:57):
time for the family. However, at the age of thirteen,
that's when you come to into yourself yourself exactly. And
at that time I feel as though my confidence and
my belief in self I didn't have the two parent
family home. Mom was trying to balance being on the
road and then being there with me. And I will say,
(04:18):
my thirteenth birthday, that's you know, you're going into your teens,
and like, as a young woman, that's so exciting. And
and for that to kind of be alongside this monumental
career moment um could have probably felt very I mean
like that was supposed to be my moment, that was
supposed to be my third birthday, that was supposed to
(04:39):
be my coming into myself. Absolutely, And what I found
is that trauma is not only something that you actually
go through. Our experience is something that you also are
lacking as well. And moment in your life where you
were looking for something and it didn't happen, and so
now you develop these coping mechanisms and they show up
in these relationships, and so I desired that attention. How
(05:03):
long did the relationship last? We were together for thirteen years,
but the physical abuse started within the last two to
three years, but I would say the mental abuse had
started from the beginning, and what did that look like?
So that was like love bombing, consistent calling, checking in,
how are you? I'm just calling to make sure you're okay, etcetera.
(05:26):
The gifts, all of that contributes to the void that
you feel. You enjoy someone checking in on you exactly
where are you, what are you doing? And then over
time it kind of became a little bit of a
controlling thing. So there were things that I felt wrong.
I would speak out on them, and he would try
to make me believe the way that I thought was wrong.
(05:48):
Over time, it's almost like someone is chipping away a
little blighting. Yeah I am am I actually yeah? Wrong
on here? Like correct? You begin to kind of question
yourself and second guests, and then because you love this person,
you're like, Okay, I hear what you're saying. There must
(06:08):
be some truth to truth. So I just kept you
in doubt. Yeah, I can understand that. And you're wanting
to be in the relationship. You want to please him exactly,
so you're trying to be the woman that he wanted exactly.
To be quite honest, prior to hitting me. He had
made threats. He had said things like, oh, I'm gonna
(06:30):
do this to you, or I should do this, and
I never believed it. After years of us being together,
we were on a break after time he decided that
he wanted to make the relationship work and I took
him back, and he had began to grow suspicious of
(06:52):
what I was doing. During the time of our break.
He began to become very very jealous, very angry. He
became aim even more controlling than he'd already been, and
that was when the physical abuse started. So the first
time then he laid hands on me was actually really horrific.
(07:15):
He kind of planned the whole thing out, the whole scenario,
so he'd put the blinds down. He yeah, like it
was an actual planned out thing. He was upset about
something that was an argument that we got into, and
he questioned me on some things and I was just
completely unaware. I'm like, you know what's going on? And
(07:36):
he literally just punched me at my mouth, which was
like I can't describe the shock. I can't describe the pain.
It was like, where is this coming from? And why
are you doing this to me? I ran and he
chased after me and he began to continue to hit me.
(07:57):
I ran to a neighbor's apartment. I stayed at the
neighbors for probably like an hour, so I was able
to actually have one of my sister's security that worked
in l A come and escort me and see me
out and make sure that I was good. I had
to grab whatever I had on me and I went
to a hotel. Who did you call when that happened?
(08:19):
My mom? We didn't call any authority like the police
or no. I didn't, And that's what's unfortunate, because I
found myself in the position where I was so mentally
abused that I was protecting him, acting him. I understand
that I called my mom and they were in shock.
(08:40):
They were like, what he hit you? He's never hit
me before. It was verbal abuse, it was mental abuse,
but I never thought that he would take it there.
I feel like we sometimes as women, we give the
benefit of the doubt and situations, and I really shouldn't have.
So after the first time, What was a conversation that
(09:05):
the two of you had when you went back. There
was a lot of apologizing in order for me to
come back. It was a lot of I'll never do
that again. I don't know what came over me. I
want you back. I want us to be a family.
And prior to this, I had had a miscarriage and
so it was I believe a play on my mind
(09:26):
because I wanted to have a child and have a family.
Looking back, it was irresponsible on my behalf. I don't
know she. When we love people, we really want to
believe that they can change. Don't beat yourself up for that, right.
(09:48):
I don't want you to think that you were irresponsible
or you didn't you know, to kind of put the
blame on you. And it shouldn't be seen as a
bad thing to be a person who won someone that
they loved to change. And when we know better, we
do know absolutely thank you for that. Thank you for that.
(10:08):
I will grant myself that grace because that is a
trauma response trying to correct someone trying to help. We
think we can fix exactly and make that person be
who it is that you desire, and we're just going
to work this out. You know how far along were
you when you had um I was like four months.
(10:31):
There was verbal abuse taking place throughout that time. There
was threatening like energy, you know, and so I'd come
to learn that there was nothing wrong with me that
caused me to miscarry. It was more so what I
was experiencing that environment that I was in the stress
it contributed, and that was devastating because I wanted that
(10:56):
child so badly. So how did it escalate after the
first time? I actually began therapy. Prior to the abuse,
I'd gone into therapy to try to fix the relationship,
and my therapist even shared with me, you know, if
he's hits you once, he's going to hit you again,
(11:16):
and it's just going to progressively get worse. Over the
course of two and a half years, the abuse was
pretty frequent. I would say it was more than ten
times that we'd gotten into really, really heated fights. There
would be times I'd have to call family members to
come pick me up because we would be fighting, and
(11:38):
I would have to get out of the car. I'd
be on the side of the road calling somebody to
come get me. So not only did it get worse,
he'd actually knocked my teeth out, got it. It was
the ultimate like that was when I left. That was
the straw that broke the camel's bag. I never thought
(11:59):
that the person that I loved could hurt me to
that extent. It was a very, very small argument. It
was very minimal. He had come home around seven am
in the morning and I questioned him on where he
was and what he was doing, and he didn't like
what I had to say, and so he literally punched
(12:21):
me in my mouth. I could literally feel my teeth.
I could feel everything just shift and my whole entire face.
You know. I kind of came came back to and
I'm like, I see the blood, and I was in
so much shock, Like it's like, it's unthinkable. It's unthinkable.
(12:43):
It's like, you you hit me. You you broke my teeth.
And he was like, no, I didn't know. I didn't you.
You hit your face on the railing. You hit your face.
I pushed you and you hit you. So in that moment,
he was trying to manipulate what he been had occurred
so that I wasn't clear on what just took place.
(13:05):
So he knocked some of your teeth up. They were
shattered and ripped away from the root that were pushed in.
There's no way to really describe that film, Like, there
was no way to describe that. You posted a photo
of the aftermath of that night. I looked at my
face and I saw blood everywhere. That was blood everywhere. Um,
(13:26):
my teeth were obviously disconfigured. I began to become angry,
obviously because when you look at your face and you
see that. So I'm in a rage now. Now I'm like,
I can't believe you did this to me. I'm going
to pick up whatever I can, and I had gotten something.
It was almost to defend myself because I felt like
he was going to continue hitting me, and I cried.
(13:51):
I cried out for my mom. I cried out for
my sister because they happened to be there and they
were in the same house. Yes, yes, he was real bold. Yeah,
I truthfully feel as though had no one been there,
he would have continued. And you said, that was that
(14:12):
was it for you? That was it for me? You
left after that, that was it for me. Sadly, I
was so um, deeply, deeply codependent. I almost told myself
just to shall pass, as if I was going to
continue the relationship. You know, I was still trying to
defend him. I didn't see myself really without him. This
(14:34):
hard those cycles, that codependent cycle is its own addiction,
and there's still a part of you that is saying,
what did I do to make him do that? Correct? Correct?
Did anyone call the police then? Or no? The neighbors
actually called the police. The police that come to the apartment. UM,
(14:58):
and I didn't tell the I'm going to be honest
with you, guys, like I didn't tell them the truth.
They asked what happened, and I made up something, um
to to protect him. And I get that, I think,
I think for black women, my god, it's so hard
because a lot of layers just like calling the police
(15:18):
police on black men and that you know, all of that,
am I'm going to turn them over to that, you
know what, I absolutely and getting and getting the police
involved period. It's like telling your business yess like we
we we'll figure this, not figuring it out. And that's
(15:40):
that's real feeling like you snitching and all of that.
It was almost set up because they've been said throughout
the relationship, like if you ever called the police on me,
if you ever do this, I'm done. I was considering
all of these things. I was considering my sister, her career.
I was considering a lot of things except myself. Know
after the last time. When you decided that it was done,
(16:04):
did he leave you alone or no? I left. I
stayed in a hotel for about a week. I wasn't
sure what my next moves were going to be. I
was still trying to hide it from people, trying to
hide the experience of what happened. I actually took a
meeting and sat in a meeting with my teeth braced
in you know, um, they had a wire on my
(16:25):
teeth and I told them a lie, like I tripped
over something, and I, you know, this is what happened
to me. So I hadn't fully accepted what had happened,
and so when I did leave, I began to question
why did I allow this to happen to me? And
then how it connected, how it connected to the rest
of my family, and how if I don't heal it,
(16:47):
this would play on in my children. I have to
break these cycles, in these patterns. Speaking of family, we
have your mom Tina, and we have your sister a
Sean to here are beautiful. Grammy winning megastar Ashanti is
the Princess of R and B and holds the record
(17:12):
for the fastest selling debut album ever by a female artist.
Throughout her multi platinum career, Ashanti and her tight knit
family have been private, but after witnessing she is abusive
relationship firsthand, they knew they had to speak out. Hello, ladies, beautiful, beautiful,
(17:41):
thank you. Actually her backup singers and dancing, well, I'll
tell you what. All of you are just so beautiful.
Thank you you guys to this is so amazing. You
just family, family down talking about I love it. Yeah,
and thank you Ashanti because I know you posted those pictures.
(18:04):
We were all like, WHOA would really love to talk
to this family about this because everybody gets affected. Yes,
absolutely so listening to her tell her story, how did
it make you feel? I had to get my makeup
done again because I was crying. Yeah, And to have
that story told from her heart and the strength that
(18:26):
she was able to display because it's always us. Back
in the day, nobody talked about it. It was like
a right, if that's supposed to happen. It was made
to believe your mother is so right that nobody talked
about People still don't talk about That's part of the problem.
There are so many artists that don't talk about it,
(18:46):
that are going through it. Even with she is sharing
with me some of the people that reached out to
her because of her post that are celebrities, like big
celebrities that are going through this, you know. So she's
so brave and we're all just super proud. Yeah, we're
a private family. We don't go telling our business. I
hidden so much from the world. Um, even in my
(19:10):
previous posts. And when she posted that last post with
him talking in her back and forth, girl, yeah, a
lot of strength. We do have the video that you
were talking about, Miss Tina. I don't I'm gonna show you.
I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna show you. Keep the
knife with you, keep the knight. I'm gonna show you.
(19:33):
I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna show what you're thinking.
I'm gonna shuck, stab me whoever you want. I'm gonna
sho no show, no weapons yet, hypead go ahead, spit
my face, beet me right, all right, I put a
(19:58):
whip me down. I'm not doing hmm. That's hard. Why
was that important for you to post? That's so important
for people to see, um and here in real time
(20:20):
because I know that there are so many other women
that are going through similar situations and are experiencing things
like that, and a picture is one thing, But a
video where you can actually hear it and you can
actually see it and feel it, it's different. You know.
What's deep about that is that, um, when I was
(20:45):
twenty one, I had to pull a knife out on
somebody too, and uh scary, It's very scary. It's very
very scary because you are at the mercy of wherever
they're at mentally you know how far they want to
take it. And I'm sitting here and I'm you know,
(21:08):
five ft one and he's six four two and whatever
pounds and he's literally like counseling me like I'm a man,
you know, and he's saying, I'm not a I'm not
a bit, I'm not a this, you know. And it's like,
at that moment in time, I'm not fighting you. I
see that where you're going to take this and he
(21:29):
had actually already finished strangling me. Oh my god, you
can hear I was scared. That was actually why I
had picked up the knife because that was the only
thing that was close to me that I felt that
I could protect myself. And you're hoping to God you
don't have to use it that I don't have to
use it. Ashanti, When did you find out that all
(21:49):
of this was going on? Yeah? Did you have any
inkling that that there was abuse going on in the relationship? Yeah,
either one of you. Actually, I don't know about the
very very very first when it started. Ironically, I was
on the phone we do in that clip. It was
like gut wrenching, you know, um, because you can't get
together to do nothing. So it had been something that
(22:14):
was going on, and you don't know how to deal
with it, like, Okay, we gotta respect whatever her decisions are.
If I'm big sisters and I'm like, well, I don't
like him and I don't think y'all should be together.
Both y'all our toxic. I used to say to them
all the time, you guys being together, it's like you
each drinking bleach, like it's toxic. But with everything that
she's gone through and growing up Shanty's little sister, it's
(22:37):
like you want your own stuff. So there are certain
things I feel like she might have put up with,
you know, and it's just like, Okay, how do you
deal with this? How do you deal with following her
lead but still knowing this is not the right thing. Yeah,
what do we do now? No one gets a book
on how to how to handle, how to handle this
and how to navigate because people, you know, when you
(23:00):
love somebody, you can't necessarily just be like, hey, I'm
coming to grab you up and I'm not gonna see
this joke. And they were listen. I'm not a violent person,
but when that call came in. As an artist, you
have resources and sometimes different Oh I know, you know
what it's like. I know I made the call this,
(23:24):
you know, And to be honest with you, her being
the amazing person that she is, I didn't want to
take that. Bro, I understand, you understand what I'm saying
to do and protecting absolutely, even through the vile disrespect,
the manipulation, even how he kind of tried to come
in and divide us and exactly exactly. So it was
(23:53):
really hard when it's your baby. Oh yeah, this is
my baby, right and I respect her, but I also
know that I'm the one that carried her. That's the
mental that I go through. So if you're going to
mess with that, then you messing with me, that's right.
But because I respect her and because I know that
(24:14):
she loved him, and because I wanted to follow her lead.
I shouldn't say I wanted to because I didn't want to,
but I didn't out of respect. But that was the
hardest thing I ever did in my life, I can imagine,
and to go to her and say, you know, I
could take care of this, and for her to say, no,
it's okay, No, it's not okay. But I wouldn't argue
(24:37):
with that. It was very difficult for me to accept
someone that was intentionally hurting my daughter. Yeah, you know,
I so understand that I have a young woman in
my life that was going through the same thing. It
doesn't help to interfere. I literally snatched her up and
took her away. I was like, you're not gonna talk
(24:58):
to him, You're not gonna see him. This is over.
This is going to turn into a very bad situation
for everybody. It didn't work. It doesn't work, and they
go back, and they go back. You gotta pray and
hope that one day they'll get it and they will
leave on their own because you can't force it, can't
make it. And then there's always him that was always
(25:20):
trying to manipulate the family. He manipulated her, and he
manipulated the family. Like my husband, he's from Brooklyn. We
couldn't even really tell him, he didn't even know. It
was a very dark time for all of us, and
it was hard to accept seeing him still in different places,
(25:42):
hearing about him looking at Instagram like nothing was concurred.
There were times after he broke my teeth, he did
continue to try to reach out. He did continue to
try to come around and come with gifts, you know, crying, crying,
and I want my family only. He manipulated a lot
(26:02):
of things between us as a family. It will never
happen again. It will never happen again. I had developed
that post traumatic stress because he had had this presence
where he felt like he was above the law. There
were times he would show up. If I were to
post where I was on Instagram, he would show up
(26:23):
to that place. There were times when I was on
my best friend's bed sleeping and he was literally in
the window taking pictures of me and sending pictures to
my phone. That night, remember you hit me? I was like,
oh nah. I went in the garage, I got the
bad I pulled up in the truck, I had vasoline,
(26:43):
I was and then yeah, I was by myself because
I had the adrenaline, you know what I mean. I
had enough. It was done. My sister got her jaw broken,
and I went after that bad that's what she think.
I never found him though, I didn't know, but I
went roman the neighborhood looking asking people if you see him.
(27:10):
I remember when the incident happened in the neighbors I
didn't see your face. I saw you guys like arguing.
I was kind of holding them apart. This is what
so manipulative. I sat with him downstairs and I'm like, yo,
what's going on? What did you do? You know? And
he's like, no, this, no, Sis, I didn't do nothing.
(27:32):
It was like that, she says, some crazy you know
what I'm saying. It wasn't like this. So we're sitting down.
I'm in a nightgown and a bonnet in a in
a in a lobby of the building. I didn't know
that it got to that level. And when I go
upstairs and see her face, that's when I'm like, what.
When I turned and saw your mouth, my heart dropped
and I almost said, damn, I should have let her
(27:53):
hit him, because she had a bottle. So then I
went and got the bottle, and I ran down street
and went in the elevator, got down from your point,
and I'm looking for him in a nightgown and a
bonnet in a bottle. It was actually a black tourmaline crystal,
because that's the one you had. It was very big,
and that was ironic. When I think back, I'm like, well,
that is the one that fights off bad energy, you know.
(28:17):
But he disappeared. Yes, he knew that she was going
to go back upstairs and her face he was born
because she went back down there and I told her
don't go, but I had to stay with her because
she wanted to go. I was like, no, she's all bloody.
I took that picture and she was like, mom, look
what he did to me. And I said, I'm taking
a picture of this because I want the world to
see this. I want to go to the police. And
(28:39):
she was crying. She wasn't crying because she was hurt.
She was just serious. So she she gave me a
number to call it dentist. We called the emergency room
and they had to wire like not her job, but
from here all the way to her teeth, and she
couldn't talk. And I'll never forget I had to buy
mashed potatoes for two weeks. It was a traumatic, traumatic
(28:59):
term of time. It was a build up because the
day before he said something to me like I should
I should push your teeth down your face, like and
we were all sitting in the living room. We were
always going. He used to say things like this in
front of my family. He would say I should do this,
and I was like, you should what He was like, na, Na.
There were times when they would have conversation eight hours.
(29:21):
I talked to him throughout the whole situation. It was draining.
The manipulation was so intertwined and deep. And I also
will say because and this is an important factor to
bring up, I desired that family unit. I brought him
in and we became family. So he began working on
(29:43):
projects with my sister. He began working with my mom,
And that was another layer that made it difficult for
me to walk away, for me to leave, because we
want to his family's house, his mom and dad, because
they were supposed to get married. There was so even,
it was so thick that he was trying to kind
of separate me from my family and make my family
(30:05):
believe that I was the you know, person that was
unreasonable unreasonable. So it was a difficult time for us
as a family coming out of that relationship. How did
it feel to feel the support of your mother and
your sister, I'm not gonna lie. No matter how much
um empathy someone has, it can seem and feel like
(30:28):
you're isolated and like nobody really gets it. So there
was a point in time where I had felt alone,
even in a room full of people. But I have
to say I am grateful to have had them, because
I know that there are women that don't have anybody,
(30:49):
and I can't say that I'd always felt supported. We
really didn't know how to handle this situation, so we
just did the best that we could in terms of
we're gonna love you, We're gonna love you, whatever you need.
We should have just all as a family collectively said, listen,
this is not it. You shouldn't be doing this. There
were times when he absolutely would manipulate my family. He
(31:11):
would say certain things to them to make them feel
like I was antagonizing him, to make them feel like
I was starting these fights. He had manipulated them so
badly to the point that they would sometimes believe the
things that he said inside with him, and that ultimately
caused a lot of chaos within the family. I'm gonna
(31:36):
be honest with you, like it's hard to support because
you don't want to continually remind her of what's going on.
But maybe it's something that she needed because I knew
she was hurting, but you don't realize it until you
feel it by seeing it. YEA, How do you think
it has changed you guys as a family unit? Yeah?
(31:59):
Can I start? I would say it actually forced us
to go to therapy, family therapy. It was really healing
for us to sit as a family and for them
to start to understand where I wasn't what I was
going through, you know, because there were different times where
I felt like, well, I wasn't defended, and it began
(32:22):
the process of becoming more aware of things that we
were not speaking about as a family. She started going
to therapy. I was like, I'm your mother, what's you
going to therapy for? You know what I'm saying like
it was like, you can't talk to me. At first,
I was offended, but then I said, no way, turn
(32:42):
this around. She's helping her in different ways that I
don't know about exactly. Personally, I wasn't brave enough to say, hey,
I'm gonna go talk to a therapist. I feel like
I'm good. But her bringing it to the forefront, we
all benefited from it and just opening my eyes in
my mind to certain things that make a difference in
(33:03):
how you approach a situation. And I think it helped
it really did. Do you feel like you have more understanding?
I do have more of an understated because you know,
sometimes especially with our age difference some size, it's like
you you know, but it with her, with her therapists
(33:24):
like giving an alternative. Okay, this is how you used
to deal with it, but how about try this way,
you know what I mean. I didn't truly begin to
heal until a few years after, you know, I began
to first process what took place, why it happened, and
why I allowed it. I've been giving that power away
for so long, and I think that that's something that
(33:46):
we do also as women. How was I, you know,
enabling this behavior? And once I began to do that,
that was when the work started for me. Would you
say it took you a minute to like really let
go of the hope. Yeah, I kind of left without
fully processing. I hadn't accepted it, and I want to
(34:09):
bring that up as an important point because that prolonged
the healing process and that avoidance that, you know, kind
of let's try to sweep this under the rug. The
shame and what other people think about you, it's all
up in your heads, you know, and it distorts your
(34:29):
decision making. It takes a minute for you to figure
out what the hell was was that, what just happened
in my life? And figure out your role in it,
because you do have a role in it. But the
biggest thing you have to do is forgive yourself. I
like to consider myself like a phoenix, you know, we
come through the fire and we rise. But it is
(34:52):
um a story. It's a part of my journey. This
is what's brought me to understanding who I am as
a person. I have gotten to a point where I
forgive myself and I've forgiven him even because at the
end of the day, anyone that can do that to
someone else, they don't love themselves. They're unclear on who
they are, and that there's an old saying that what
(35:14):
doesn't kill you make me stronger. But it should be
what doesn't kill you will make your heart bigger. Recently,
and I really related to that one thing I wanted
to mention. Unfortunately, there were girls that I guess he
was dealing with and they were kind of making fun
of the situation and posting pictures of themselves smiling with
(35:38):
their teeth and pointing at their teeth. Not only was
there that, there were also friends that we've had that
were mutual that were picking sides. As a black woman,
when you're kicking someone when they're down, it is the
most disgraceful, disgusting thing. Whatever the situation was with these
females and him whatever, but that kind disrespect is so
(36:01):
vile and it's it's harmful even mentally, you know, and
it's triggering, you know what I'm saying, because I'm like,
it was you know what I mean, And it's not
funny like mentally with you, Like, how could you laugh
at someone to make fun of somebody that's going through
stuff like that? And that's a problem. I can't agree
with you more, Shaunty, because I feel like as black women,
(36:24):
we have to learn how to support each other, we
really do. I think that there's so many of us
who are so challenged with our own level of self respect.
We're like grabbing at anything that we can to to
to feel like, you know, I'm somebody, or this is
gonna put me one step about her exactly. I Um,
(36:47):
I just want to say that I'm in a beautiful place.
I am not a victim. I'm not a survivor. This
has happened to me and it has brought me to
knowing myself on a deeper level. It's interesting that you
don't want to use the word victim and survivor because
I look at it like this. So when you're labeling
(37:09):
yourself as a victim or survivor, in order for you
to truly heal, you have to detach from that narrative
that this was an experience that's taught me. This is
an experience that I've now risen above. So you're taking
your power back in that way. That's powerful. Thank you, absolutely, ladies,
(37:29):
Thank you so much. This was beautiful. Thank you so
much for coming to the table and sharing your story.
Thank you. I love it, thank you, thank you. So
you know, we've been a fan since forever and you
said the bar, you open the doors. You're just so
gracious and so classy and this was chance with her nails. It.
(37:57):
I love it, beautiful nails. So one of my girlfriends,
um Lauren Lennon during Christmas, she's like our DJ. She's like,
all right, Jana, what do you want to play? I
was like, girl, put on that rain on me? She says, Okay,
baltimorean song. Yes, that's her nickname for me, Baltimore Songs.
(38:29):
To join the Red Table Talk family and become a
part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com
slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode
of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio,
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Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Red Tabletop podcast all your favorite episodes from the Facebook
Watch show in audio, produced by Westbrook Audio and I
Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on
Apple Podcasts, a Red Table Talk exclusive. Prior to hitting me,
he had made threats all I'm gonna do this to you,
(00:21):
and I never believed it. I never thought that the
person that I love would hurt me to that extent.
It literally just punched me in my mouth. It was
like good wrenching for the first time. R and B
superstar Ashanti and her family come together as the older
sister that wants to protect my younger sister. No one
gets a book on how to handle this with a
(00:41):
private family. We don't go telling our business. And I
was like, oh nah. I went in the garage, I
got the bad I pulled up in the truck. I
had basiline. I was ready for a powerful and important conversation.
He had actually already finished strangling me. That was actually
why I had picked up the knife. When I is one,
I had to pull a knife out on somebody too,
(01:03):
and I opening look at the damage and devastation caused
by domestic abuse that happens every three seconds in America.
And I cried out for my mom. I cried out
for my sister because they happened to be there, they
were in the same house. He was bold, here we
(01:24):
are this is very serious topic. Is a very serious topic.
It's one of those topics that touches everybody. Yeah, and
in URTT exclusive, Ashanti, her sister Shea, and their mother
Tina are here to open up about how domestic violence
change their family forever. We're gonna start with Shia. We
(01:46):
saw these photos you and your sister recently shared on
social media, So Shea, can you tell us what was
going on here? That was, Um, the results of my
relationship with my ex. Those series of photos were actually
(02:08):
a few different events. That was the darkest time in
my life. That was after he had pushed me down
the stairs, kicked me. There were so many different instances
and experiences that at the ascount of all of a blur.
But um, that particular instance, we were arguing and he
(02:31):
literally just popped me in my eye. I had sunglasses on.
How did it start out for you? What was the
relationship like in the beginning? I had met him, when
I had just gotten out of high school. I was
just going to college. That was about eighteen or nineteen
years old. I hadn't really had a real relationship, you know,
a real which you would call an adult relationship. In
(02:53):
the beginning, it was pretty fun. He was extremely attentive,
complimenting me on my hair, on my clothes, what I
was wearing. He was giving me the attention that I
felt that I needed and that I desired. It's like, oh,
this feels good. You know, this is a guy who
has a little bit of money who is showing me affection,
(03:14):
attention that I feel I haven't had. It feels good
to have someone shower you with attention. And you never
think in a million years that's going to turn into
Do not ever think that I was connected to him
because I had inner child issues, inner child trauma. I
wanted to feel avoid Can you talk to us a
(03:36):
little bit about or describe what you mean by inner
child issues. Absolutely, the inner child traumas that I experienced
were kind of I would say, because of my sister's career.
Her actual album came out on my thirteenth birthday, like
literally on my thirtee birthday, so it was an exciting
(03:57):
time for the family. However, at the age of thirteen,
that's when you come to into yourself yourself exactly. And
at that time I feel as though my confidence and
my belief in self I didn't have the two parent
family home. Mom was trying to balance being on the
road and then being there with me. And I will say,
(04:18):
my thirteenth birthday, that's you know, you're going into your teens,
and like, as a young woman, that's so exciting. And
and for that to kind of be alongside this monumental
career moment um could have probably felt very I mean
like that was supposed to be my moment, that was
supposed to be my third birthday, that was supposed to
(04:39):
be my coming into myself. Absolutely, And what I found
is that trauma is not only something that you actually
go through. Our experience is something that you also are
lacking as well. And moment in your life where you
were looking for something and it didn't happen, and so
now you develop these coping mechanisms and they show up
in these relationships, and so I desired that attention. How
(05:03):
long did the relationship last? We were together for thirteen years,
but the physical abuse started within the last two to
three years, but I would say the mental abuse had
started from the beginning, and what did that look like?
So that was like love bombing, consistent calling, checking in,
how are you? I'm just calling to make sure you're okay, etcetera.
(05:26):
The gifts, all of that contributes to the void that
you feel. You enjoy someone checking in on you exactly
where are you, what are you doing? And then over
time it kind of became a little bit of a
controlling thing. So there were things that I felt wrong.
I would speak out on them, and he would try
to make me believe the way that I thought was wrong.
(05:48):
Over time, it's almost like someone is chipping away a
little blighting. Yeah I am am I actually yeah? Wrong
on here? Like correct? You begin to kind of question
yourself and second guests, and then because you love this person,
you're like, Okay, I hear what you're saying. There must
(06:08):
be some truth to truth. So I just kept you
in doubt. Yeah, I can understand that. And you're wanting
to be in the relationship. You want to please him exactly,
so you're trying to be the woman that he wanted exactly.
To be quite honest, prior to hitting me. He had
made threats. He had said things like, oh, I'm gonna
(06:30):
do this to you, or I should do this, and
I never believed it. After years of us being together,
we were on a break after time he decided that
he wanted to make the relationship work and I took
him back, and he had began to grow suspicious of
(06:52):
what I was doing. During the time of our break.
He began to become very very jealous, very angry. He
became aim even more controlling than he'd already been, and
that was when the physical abuse started. So the first
time then he laid hands on me was actually really horrific.
(07:15):
He kind of planned the whole thing out, the whole scenario,
so he'd put the blinds down. He yeah, like it
was an actual planned out thing. He was upset about
something that was an argument that we got into, and
he questioned me on some things and I was just
completely unaware. I'm like, you know what's going on? And
(07:36):
he literally just punched me at my mouth, which was
like I can't describe the shock. I can't describe the pain.
It was like, where is this coming from? And why
are you doing this to me? I ran and he
chased after me and he began to continue to hit me.
(07:57):
I ran to a neighbor's apartment. I stayed at the
neighbors for probably like an hour, so I was able
to actually have one of my sister's security that worked
in l A come and escort me and see me
out and make sure that I was good. I had
to grab whatever I had on me and I went
to a hotel. Who did you call when that happened?
(08:19):
My mom? We didn't call any authority like the police
or no. I didn't, And that's what's unfortunate, because I
found myself in the position where I was so mentally
abused that I was protecting him, acting him. I understand
that I called my mom and they were in shock.
(08:40):
They were like, what he hit you? He's never hit
me before. It was verbal abuse, it was mental abuse,
but I never thought that he would take it there.
I feel like we sometimes as women, we give the
benefit of the doubt and situations, and I really shouldn't have.
So after the first time, What was a conversation that
(09:05):
the two of you had when you went back. There
was a lot of apologizing in order for me to
come back. It was a lot of I'll never do
that again. I don't know what came over me. I
want you back. I want us to be a family.
And prior to this, I had had a miscarriage and
so it was I believe a play on my mind
(09:26):
because I wanted to have a child and have a family.
Looking back, it was irresponsible on my behalf. I don't
know she. When we love people, we really want to
believe that they can change. Don't beat yourself up for that, right.
(09:48):
I don't want you to think that you were irresponsible
or you didn't you know, to kind of put the
blame on you. And it shouldn't be seen as a
bad thing to be a person who won someone that
they loved to change. And when we know better, we
do know absolutely thank you for that. Thank you for that.
(10:08):
I will grant myself that grace because that is a
trauma response trying to correct someone trying to help. We
think we can fix exactly and make that person be
who it is that you desire, and we're just going
to work this out. You know how far along were
you when you had um I was like four months.
(10:31):
There was verbal abuse taking place throughout that time. There
was threatening like energy, you know, and so I'd come
to learn that there was nothing wrong with me that
caused me to miscarry. It was more so what I
was experiencing that environment that I was in the stress
it contributed, and that was devastating because I wanted that
(10:56):
child so badly. So how did it escalate after the
first time? I actually began therapy. Prior to the abuse,
I'd gone into therapy to try to fix the relationship,
and my therapist even shared with me, you know, if
he's hits you once, he's going to hit you again,
(11:16):
and it's just going to progressively get worse. Over the
course of two and a half years, the abuse was
pretty frequent. I would say it was more than ten
times that we'd gotten into really, really heated fights. There
would be times I'd have to call family members to
come pick me up because we would be fighting, and
(11:38):
I would have to get out of the car. I'd
be on the side of the road calling somebody to
come get me. So not only did it get worse,
he'd actually knocked my teeth out, got it. It was
the ultimate like that was when I left. That was
the straw that broke the camel's bag. I never thought
(11:59):
that the person that I loved could hurt me to
that extent. It was a very, very small argument. It
was very minimal. He had come home around seven am
in the morning and I questioned him on where he
was and what he was doing, and he didn't like
what I had to say, and so he literally punched
(12:21):
me in my mouth. I could literally feel my teeth.
I could feel everything just shift and my whole entire face.
You know. I kind of came came back to and
I'm like, I see the blood, and I was in
so much shock, Like it's like, it's unthinkable. It's unthinkable.
(12:43):
It's like, you you hit me. You you broke my teeth.
And he was like, no, I didn't know. I didn't you.
You hit your face on the railing. You hit your face.
I pushed you and you hit you. So in that moment,
he was trying to manipulate what he been had occurred
so that I wasn't clear on what just took place.
(13:05):
So he knocked some of your teeth up. They were
shattered and ripped away from the root that were pushed in.
There's no way to really describe that film, Like, there
was no way to describe that. You posted a photo
of the aftermath of that night. I looked at my
face and I saw blood everywhere. That was blood everywhere. Um,
(13:26):
my teeth were obviously disconfigured. I began to become angry,
obviously because when you look at your face and you
see that. So I'm in a rage now. Now I'm like,
I can't believe you did this to me. I'm going
to pick up whatever I can, and I had gotten something.
It was almost to defend myself because I felt like
he was going to continue hitting me, and I cried.
(13:51):
I cried out for my mom. I cried out for
my sister because they happened to be there and they
were in the same house. Yes, yes, he was real bold. Yeah,
I truthfully feel as though had no one been there,
he would have continued. And you said, that was that
(14:12):
was it for you? That was it for me? You
left after that, that was it for me. Sadly, I
was so um, deeply, deeply codependent. I almost told myself
just to shall pass, as if I was going to
continue the relationship. You know, I was still trying to
defend him. I didn't see myself really without him. This
(14:34):
hard those cycles, that codependent cycle is its own addiction,
and there's still a part of you that is saying,
what did I do to make him do that? Correct? Correct?
Did anyone call the police then? Or no? The neighbors
actually called the police. The police that come to the apartment. UM,
(14:58):
and I didn't tell the I'm going to be honest
with you, guys, like I didn't tell them the truth.
They asked what happened, and I made up something, um
to to protect him. And I get that, I think,
I think for black women, my god, it's so hard
because a lot of layers just like calling the police
(15:18):
police on black men and that you know, all of that,
am I'm going to turn them over to that, you
know what, I absolutely and getting and getting the police
involved period. It's like telling your business yess like we
we we'll figure this, not figuring it out. And that's
(15:40):
that's real feeling like you snitching and all of that.
It was almost set up because they've been said throughout
the relationship, like if you ever called the police on me,
if you ever do this, I'm done. I was considering
all of these things. I was considering my sister, her career.
I was considering a lot of things except myself. Know
after the last time. When you decided that it was done,
(16:04):
did he leave you alone or no? I left. I
stayed in a hotel for about a week. I wasn't
sure what my next moves were going to be. I
was still trying to hide it from people, trying to
hide the experience of what happened. I actually took a
meeting and sat in a meeting with my teeth braced
in you know, um, they had a wire on my
(16:25):
teeth and I told them a lie, like I tripped
over something, and I, you know, this is what happened
to me. So I hadn't fully accepted what had happened,
and so when I did leave, I began to question
why did I allow this to happen to me? And
then how it connected, how it connected to the rest
of my family, and how if I don't heal it,
(16:47):
this would play on in my children. I have to
break these cycles, in these patterns. Speaking of family, we
have your mom Tina, and we have your sister a
Sean to here are beautiful. Grammy winning megastar Ashanti is
the Princess of R and B and holds the record
(17:12):
for the fastest selling debut album ever by a female artist.
Throughout her multi platinum career, Ashanti and her tight knit
family have been private, but after witnessing she is abusive
relationship firsthand, they knew they had to speak out. Hello, ladies, beautiful, beautiful,
(17:41):
thank you. Actually her backup singers and dancing, well, I'll
tell you what. All of you are just so beautiful.
Thank you you guys to this is so amazing. You
just family, family down talking about I love it. Yeah,
and thank you Ashanti because I know you posted those pictures.
(18:04):
We were all like, WHOA would really love to talk
to this family about this because everybody gets affected. Yes,
absolutely so listening to her tell her story, how did
it make you feel? I had to get my makeup
done again because I was crying. Yeah, And to have
that story told from her heart and the strength that
(18:26):
she was able to display because it's always us. Back
in the day, nobody talked about it. It was like
a right, if that's supposed to happen. It was made
to believe your mother is so right that nobody talked
about People still don't talk about That's part of the problem.
There are so many artists that don't talk about it,
(18:46):
that are going through it. Even with she is sharing
with me some of the people that reached out to
her because of her post that are celebrities, like big
celebrities that are going through this, you know. So she's
so brave and we're all just super proud. Yeah, we're
a private family. We don't go telling our business. I
hidden so much from the world. Um, even in my
(19:10):
previous posts. And when she posted that last post with
him talking in her back and forth, girl, yeah, a
lot of strength. We do have the video that you
were talking about, Miss Tina. I don't I'm gonna show you.
I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna show you. Keep the
knife with you, keep the knight. I'm gonna show you.
(19:33):
I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna show what you're thinking.
I'm gonna shuck, stab me whoever you want. I'm gonna
sho no show, no weapons yet, hypead go ahead, spit
my face, beet me right, all right, I put a
(19:58):
whip me down. I'm not doing hmm. That's hard. Why
was that important for you to post? That's so important
for people to see, um and here in real time
(20:20):
because I know that there are so many other women
that are going through similar situations and are experiencing things
like that, and a picture is one thing, But a
video where you can actually hear it and you can
actually see it and feel it, it's different. You know.
What's deep about that is that, um, when I was
(20:45):
twenty one, I had to pull a knife out on
somebody too, and uh scary, It's very scary. It's very
very scary because you are at the mercy of wherever
they're at mentally you know how far they want to
take it. And I'm sitting here and I'm you know,
(21:08):
five ft one and he's six four two and whatever
pounds and he's literally like counseling me like I'm a man,
you know, and he's saying, I'm not a I'm not
a bit, I'm not a this, you know. And it's like,
at that moment in time, I'm not fighting you. I
see that where you're going to take this and he
(21:29):
had actually already finished strangling me. Oh my god, you
can hear I was scared. That was actually why I
had picked up the knife because that was the only
thing that was close to me that I felt that
I could protect myself. And you're hoping to God you
don't have to use it that I don't have to
use it. Ashanti, When did you find out that all
(21:49):
of this was going on? Yeah? Did you have any
inkling that that there was abuse going on in the relationship? Yeah,
either one of you. Actually, I don't know about the
very very very first when it started. Ironically, I was
on the phone we do in that clip. It was
like gut wrenching, you know, um, because you can't get
together to do nothing. So it had been something that
(22:14):
was going on, and you don't know how to deal
with it, like, Okay, we gotta respect whatever her decisions are.
If I'm big sisters and I'm like, well, I don't
like him and I don't think y'all should be together.
Both y'all our toxic. I used to say to them
all the time, you guys being together, it's like you
each drinking bleach, like it's toxic. But with everything that
she's gone through and growing up Shanty's little sister, it's
(22:37):
like you want your own stuff. So there are certain
things I feel like she might have put up with,
you know, and it's just like, Okay, how do you
deal with this? How do you deal with following her
lead but still knowing this is not the right thing. Yeah,
what do we do now? No one gets a book
on how to how to handle, how to handle this
and how to navigate because people, you know, when you
(23:00):
love somebody, you can't necessarily just be like, hey, I'm
coming to grab you up and I'm not gonna see
this joke. And they were listen. I'm not a violent person,
but when that call came in. As an artist, you
have resources and sometimes different Oh I know, you know
what it's like. I know I made the call this,
(23:24):
you know, And to be honest with you, her being
the amazing person that she is, I didn't want to
take that. Bro, I understand, you understand what I'm saying
to do and protecting absolutely, even through the vile disrespect,
the manipulation, even how he kind of tried to come
in and divide us and exactly exactly. So it was
(23:53):
really hard when it's your baby. Oh yeah, this is
my baby, right and I respect her, but I also
know that I'm the one that carried her. That's the
mental that I go through. So if you're going to
mess with that, then you messing with me, that's right.
But because I respect her and because I know that
(24:14):
she loved him, and because I wanted to follow her lead.
I shouldn't say I wanted to because I didn't want to,
but I didn't out of respect. But that was the
hardest thing I ever did in my life, I can imagine,
and to go to her and say, you know, I
could take care of this, and for her to say, no,
it's okay, No, it's not okay. But I wouldn't argue
(24:37):
with that. It was very difficult for me to accept
someone that was intentionally hurting my daughter. Yeah, you know,
I so understand that I have a young woman in
my life that was going through the same thing. It
doesn't help to interfere. I literally snatched her up and
took her away. I was like, you're not gonna talk
(24:58):
to him, You're not gonna see him. This is over.
This is going to turn into a very bad situation
for everybody. It didn't work. It doesn't work, and they
go back, and they go back. You gotta pray and
hope that one day they'll get it and they will
leave on their own because you can't force it, can't
make it. And then there's always him that was always
(25:20):
trying to manipulate the family. He manipulated her, and he
manipulated the family. Like my husband, he's from Brooklyn. We
couldn't even really tell him, he didn't even know. It
was a very dark time for all of us, and
it was hard to accept seeing him still in different places,
(25:42):
hearing about him looking at Instagram like nothing was concurred.
There were times after he broke my teeth, he did
continue to try to reach out. He did continue to
try to come around and come with gifts, you know, crying, crying,
and I want my family only. He manipulated a lot
(26:02):
of things between us as a family. It will never
happen again. It will never happen again. I had developed
that post traumatic stress because he had had this presence
where he felt like he was above the law. There
were times he would show up. If I were to
post where I was on Instagram, he would show up
(26:23):
to that place. There were times when I was on
my best friend's bed sleeping and he was literally in
the window taking pictures of me and sending pictures to
my phone. That night, remember you hit me? I was like,
oh nah. I went in the garage, I got the
bad I pulled up in the truck, I had vasoline,
(26:43):
I was and then yeah, I was by myself because
I had the adrenaline, you know what I mean. I
had enough. It was done. My sister got her jaw broken,
and I went after that bad that's what she think.
I never found him though, I didn't know, but I
went roman the neighborhood looking asking people if you see him.
(27:10):
I remember when the incident happened in the neighbors I
didn't see your face. I saw you guys like arguing.
I was kind of holding them apart. This is what
so manipulative. I sat with him downstairs and I'm like, yo,
what's going on? What did you do? You know? And
he's like, no, this, no, Sis, I didn't do nothing.
(27:32):
It was like that, she says, some crazy you know
what I'm saying. It wasn't like this. So we're sitting down.
I'm in a nightgown and a bonnet in a in
a in a lobby of the building. I didn't know
that it got to that level. And when I go
upstairs and see her face, that's when I'm like, what.
When I turned and saw your mouth, my heart dropped
and I almost said, damn, I should have let her
(27:53):
hit him, because she had a bottle. So then I
went and got the bottle, and I ran down street
and went in the elevator, got down from your point,
and I'm looking for him in a nightgown and a
bonnet in a bottle. It was actually a black tourmaline crystal,
because that's the one you had. It was very big,
and that was ironic. When I think back, I'm like, well,
that is the one that fights off bad energy, you know.
(28:17):
But he disappeared. Yes, he knew that she was going
to go back upstairs and her face he was born
because she went back down there and I told her
don't go, but I had to stay with her because
she wanted to go. I was like, no, she's all bloody.
I took that picture and she was like, mom, look
what he did to me. And I said, I'm taking
a picture of this because I want the world to
see this. I want to go to the police. And
(28:39):
she was crying. She wasn't crying because she was hurt.
She was just serious. So she she gave me a
number to call it dentist. We called the emergency room
and they had to wire like not her job, but
from here all the way to her teeth, and she
couldn't talk. And I'll never forget I had to buy
mashed potatoes for two weeks. It was a traumatic, traumatic
(28:59):
term of time. It was a build up because the
day before he said something to me like I should
I should push your teeth down your face, like and
we were all sitting in the living room. We were
always going. He used to say things like this in
front of my family. He would say I should do this,
and I was like, you should what He was like, na, Na.
There were times when they would have conversation eight hours.
(29:21):
I talked to him throughout the whole situation. It was draining.
The manipulation was so intertwined and deep. And I also
will say because and this is an important factor to
bring up, I desired that family unit. I brought him
in and we became family. So he began working on
(29:43):
projects with my sister. He began working with my mom,
And that was another layer that made it difficult for
me to walk away, for me to leave, because we
want to his family's house, his mom and dad, because
they were supposed to get married. There was so even,
it was so thick that he was trying to kind
of separate me from my family and make my family
(30:05):
believe that I was the you know, person that was
unreasonable unreasonable. So it was a difficult time for us
as a family coming out of that relationship. How did
it feel to feel the support of your mother and
your sister, I'm not gonna lie. No matter how much
um empathy someone has, it can seem and feel like
(30:28):
you're isolated and like nobody really gets it. So there
was a point in time where I had felt alone,
even in a room full of people. But I have
to say I am grateful to have had them, because
I know that there are women that don't have anybody,
(30:49):
and I can't say that I'd always felt supported. We
really didn't know how to handle this situation, so we
just did the best that we could in terms of
we're gonna love you, We're gonna love you, whatever you need.
We should have just all as a family collectively said, listen,
this is not it. You shouldn't be doing this. There
were times when he absolutely would manipulate my family. He
(31:11):
would say certain things to them to make them feel
like I was antagonizing him, to make them feel like
I was starting these fights. He had manipulated them so
badly to the point that they would sometimes believe the
things that he said inside with him, and that ultimately
caused a lot of chaos within the family. I'm gonna
(31:36):
be honest with you, like it's hard to support because
you don't want to continually remind her of what's going on.
But maybe it's something that she needed because I knew
she was hurting, but you don't realize it until you
feel it by seeing it. YEA, How do you think
it has changed you guys as a family unit? Yeah?
(31:59):
Can I start? I would say it actually forced us
to go to therapy, family therapy. It was really healing
for us to sit as a family and for them
to start to understand where I wasn't what I was
going through, you know, because there were different times where
I felt like, well, I wasn't defended, and it began
(32:22):
the process of becoming more aware of things that we
were not speaking about as a family. She started going
to therapy. I was like, I'm your mother, what's you
going to therapy for? You know what I'm saying like
it was like, you can't talk to me. At first,
I was offended, but then I said, no way, turn
(32:42):
this around. She's helping her in different ways that I
don't know about exactly. Personally, I wasn't brave enough to say, hey,
I'm gonna go talk to a therapist. I feel like
I'm good. But her bringing it to the forefront, we
all benefited from it and just opening my eyes in
my mind to certain things that make a difference in
(33:03):
how you approach a situation. And I think it helped
it really did. Do you feel like you have more understanding?
I do have more of an understated because you know,
sometimes especially with our age difference some size, it's like
you you know, but it with her, with her therapists
(33:24):
like giving an alternative. Okay, this is how you used
to deal with it, but how about try this way,
you know what I mean. I didn't truly begin to
heal until a few years after, you know, I began
to first process what took place, why it happened, and
why I allowed it. I've been giving that power away
for so long, and I think that that's something that
(33:46):
we do also as women. How was I, you know,
enabling this behavior? And once I began to do that,
that was when the work started for me. Would you
say it took you a minute to like really let
go of the hope. Yeah, I kind of left without
fully processing. I hadn't accepted it, and I want to
(34:09):
bring that up as an important point because that prolonged
the healing process and that avoidance that, you know, kind
of let's try to sweep this under the rug. The
shame and what other people think about you, it's all
up in your heads, you know, and it distorts your
(34:29):
decision making. It takes a minute for you to figure
out what the hell was was that, what just happened
in my life? And figure out your role in it,
because you do have a role in it. But the
biggest thing you have to do is forgive yourself. I
like to consider myself like a phoenix, you know, we
come through the fire and we rise. But it is
(34:52):
um a story. It's a part of my journey. This
is what's brought me to understanding who I am as
a person. I have gotten to a point where I
forgive myself and I've forgiven him even because at the
end of the day, anyone that can do that to
someone else, they don't love themselves. They're unclear on who
they are, and that there's an old saying that what
(35:14):
doesn't kill you make me stronger. But it should be
what doesn't kill you will make your heart bigger. Recently,
and I really related to that one thing I wanted
to mention. Unfortunately, there were girls that I guess he
was dealing with and they were kind of making fun
of the situation and posting pictures of themselves smiling with
(35:38):
their teeth and pointing at their teeth. Not only was
there that, there were also friends that we've had that
were mutual that were picking sides. As a black woman,
when you're kicking someone when they're down, it is the
most disgraceful, disgusting thing. Whatever the situation was with these
females and him whatever, but that kind disrespect is so
(36:01):
vile and it's it's harmful even mentally, you know, and
it's triggering, you know what I'm saying, because I'm like,
it was you know what I mean, And it's not
funny like mentally with you, Like, how could you laugh
at someone to make fun of somebody that's going through
stuff like that? And that's a problem. I can't agree
with you more, Shaunty, because I feel like as black women,
(36:24):
we have to learn how to support each other, we
really do. I think that there's so many of us
who are so challenged with our own level of self respect.
We're like grabbing at anything that we can to to
to feel like, you know, I'm somebody, or this is
gonna put me one step about her exactly. I Um,
(36:47):
I just want to say that I'm in a beautiful place.
I am not a victim. I'm not a survivor. This
has happened to me and it has brought me to
knowing myself on a deeper level. It's interesting that you
don't want to use the word victim and survivor because
I look at it like this. So when you're labeling
(37:09):
yourself as a victim or survivor, in order for you
to truly heal, you have to detach from that narrative
that this was an experience that's taught me. This is
an experience that I've now risen above. So you're taking
your power back in that way. That's powerful. Thank you, absolutely, ladies,
(37:29):
Thank you so much. This was beautiful. Thank you so
much for coming to the table and sharing your story.
Thank you. I love it, thank you, thank you. So
you know, we've been a fan since forever and you
said the bar, you open the doors. You're just so
gracious and so classy and this was chance with her nails. It.
(37:57):
I love it, beautiful nails. So one of my girlfriends,
um Lauren Lennon during Christmas, she's like our DJ. She's like,
all right, Jana, what do you want to play? I
was like, girl, put on that rain on me? She says, Okay,
baltimorean song. Yes, that's her nickname for me, Baltimore Songs.
(38:29):
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of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio,
and I Heart Radio.
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