February 25, 2021 • 34 mins
In this episode, Erika and Whitney address the reparations elephant in the room when they ask, “How much, and who pays, the debt of reparations?” They get answers from business titan Bob Johnson, uber economist Julianne Malveaux, and everybody’s favorite reparations professor, Dr. William Darity. To illustrate the effects of privilege in their own lives, Erika and Whitney recruit MSNBC’s top anchor, Joy Reid, to help them play The Privilege Walk. Finally, Morningside Heights gets a wake-up call, when the duo's visit to Riverside Church is interrupted with an urgent plea from the past; as civil rights leader James Forman demands “$500 million” or “$15 a nigger!” in his historic 1969 Black Manifesto. To kick it all off, we get a special definition of reparations, from none other than Wu-Tang Clan impresario, RZA.
Written credits: Audio of Jim Forman’s “Black Manifesto” speech provided by Riverside Church Archives. Music: “Hall of the Mountain King"
Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Reparations, The Big Payback, a production of Color
Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Reparations.
What is it? It is the making of amends for
a wrong that one has done by paying money to
or otherwise helping those who have been wronged. It comes
from two words repair and action. So thus it is
(00:23):
the action of repairing the damage that one has caused.
It is a now and we need it now. You
tell him, Rizza, you got debt? White America? Protect your neck?
Who turned America? Alexander and I'm Whitney down. Mhm. There
(00:53):
it is. It all comes down to one thing, debt.
If we rang up all the debt white Americans ow
the black amer Perkins, it would be fifty times longer
than the CVS received picture that Whitney. That's mighty long.
Did you know that you're hundreds of years ahead of
me because you were born a white man in America?
(01:14):
But you owe me a debt that is simple? Thank
you can't fix well, you know, Erica, I always thank you.
But what is this debt that we're talking about? Is
it something that I owe you personally or is this
something that all white people of black people you know,
you're the big star. I'm just a documentary filmmaker. I
never enslaved anybody by relatives, as far as I know, didn't.
(01:36):
What is this thing that I actually Oh, how has
this debt been accrued? And how do you think I
should be repaying it one dollar at a time? You
know we've done this before. It's so funny how white
amnesia sits in, like how do I pay for the debts?
How do I pay for stuff that I've done wrong
or you know, in the past. But you know, listen,
this is what the whole podcast is about. It's about
(01:57):
the fact that if you can't see it and you
don't think you owe it, and there's no invoice, then
how is it your debt? And there's the rub, So yeah,
you gotta get to it. The other part of this
is that you got interests, okay, because this debt keeps
growing whether you think it's there or not. It's like
a mountain. So yeah, something's got to happen. This is
the big question that I think all white people ask themselves.
(02:20):
Whether you're someone who believes that black people are owed
something or whether you believe that black people aren't owed something,
you're always like asking yourself, how do I fit into this?
Do I owe something personally? Is that the government? And
what does it actually mean to owe something? What is
the thing that I've gotten by being white that I
need to repay? Well, I don't think it's what you've gotten,
(02:41):
only it's what you can't see. And it is invisible
because it's built inside the structures and institutions and the
banking and the real estate and the military and everything
that makes America America. But listen, I got the receipts
and it dates back to how you and I both
got started in life. And this will show the effects
of the at pretty clearly. In fact, to demonstrate the
(03:02):
invisible advantages of your so called magnificent whiteness and the
unseen disparity of my glorious blackness, some genius created a
contest called the Privilege Game. We're gonna play it outdoors
because we need plenty of role Actually, I know the
perfect place to play this. Okay, good, so, Erica. You
(03:26):
know we're gonna do this privileged walk, right. I thought'd
be interesting to do it at General Grant's tune. Wow,
obviously he was, you know, you know, the winning general
in the Civil War. But it was interesting. As president,
he really went against Johnson, who replaced Lincoln, and he
was really instrumental on ensuring rights for black people after
(03:50):
Civil War. I love the story of Grant. You love
the story of Grant. I do, At least what I
know about him is that he was a little, small
dude who was necessarily the most obvious choice. But for Lincoln,
who kept sending generals in and these types of commanders,
they wouldn't fight. It's like they were hesitating fighting against
(04:11):
the South. And he says, God, damn it, I need
somebody who will fight. And Grants came in, all small
and kind of spiny, and he said, I'll fight, sir,
and he fought. Yeah. I love you, Grant, But let's
get to this game. So the purpose is to demonstrate
the different ways privilege shows up in our lives. So
(04:33):
I've asked our friend, the brilliant Joy read of the
read out to set us up and get us going.
She's going to read a statement or a question, and
we're going to step forward or step back if it
applies to us. All right, all right, you want to
take twenty steps up just being white and a man?
Go go for it. We worked this out like a game.
It'll be fun at least for a little while. May
(04:54):
be fun for you. I have a feeling I might
lose this one by winning you you might lose this winning.
Is that a joke? Say? My winning is going to
be could potentially be a lost child? Please please delusions. Okay,
let's get going, all right, Eric and Whitney, let's play
the privilege game. You're ready, yes, ready as I'm ever
(05:20):
going to be. Good luck to both of you. Actually,
I take that back, Whitney, you don't need luck, You've
got white privilege. Good luck to you. Erica. I know
your story. It's amazing, so many wonderful accomplishments. But even
with all of that, I already know how this game
will end, and it ate with you in the lead,
my Nubian sister. Okay, well, Conda forever, let's do this
(05:42):
first question, If your ancestors were forced to come to
the USA, not by choice, take one step back by
let me just step back. If your primary ethnic identity
is American, take one step forward. If you were ever
called names because of your race, class, ethnicity, gender, or
(06:02):
sexual orientation, take one step back there, Erica, she's getting
a little bit back behind me. Whitney, you keep moving forward.
I've been moved forward once. Sucks for me. If there
were people who worked for your family as servants, gardeners, nanny's,
et cetera, take one step forward. Here I go again.
(06:23):
If you were ever ashaved or embarrassed of your clothes,
house car, et cetera, take one step back. We can
further part pretty quickly. Whitney, you might want to get
out the middle of the center of the sidewalk. There
you go. All right, Whitney, so far you're in the
lead by a pretty wide margin. So Erica, now it
was probably a good time for us to set up
some prayers that you'll catch up to him in the
next round of the game. But first, speaking of reparations,
(06:46):
I know YouTube visited New York's famous Riverside Church, whose
history is connected to reparations. Let's take a listen. Wow,
what a church. Yeah, this is a beauty. You know what,
(07:06):
I love stained glass. It looks like um candy. It's delicious.
It's really really really astounding. Because they can build this,
we can get reparations. It's true, this was no small undertaking.
So you know this is the church where James Foreman
(07:27):
in nine and it was eight fourth. He got up.
There was a Sunday service, right, and he got up.
You know, Reverend Ernest T. Campbell was presiding, big crowd,
mostly white, white, yeah, mostly white, and he got up
and he presented the Black Manifesto. That's right, you know, Whitney.
James Foreman was a well known civil rights activist at
(07:50):
the time. But when he stormed the pulpit and disrupted
that service, he was heckled. I mean, they probably thought
he was there to rob him membership of Minside Church
(08:25):
Black Manifesto. We the black people assembled in Detroit, Michigan
for the National Black Economic Development Conference, are fully aware
that we have been forced to come together because racist
white America has exploited our resources, our minds, our bodies,
our labor for centuries. We have been forced to live
as colonized people inside the United States, victimized by the
(08:48):
most vicious racist system in the world. We have helped
to build the most industrial country in the world. The
Riverside Church is to use its influence and historic reputation
to pressure all white, racist Christian churches and Jewish synagogues
to meet the demand of the National Black Economic Development
Conference for five hundred million dollars in reparations due to
(09:11):
the role of the Christian and Jewish religions and exploiting
Black people in this country. We have stated in our
Black Manifesto that our demand for five hundred million dollars
cannot be minimized. It can only be increase. While we
did not place a time limit on when we wanted
to five hundred million dollars in reparations to be paid,
(09:33):
let no Christian or Jew think that we are going
to string out this matter or that payment of this
reparation can be evaded. We are therefore demanding of the
white Christian churches in Jewish synagogues, which are part and
parcel of the system of capitalism, that they begin to
pay reparations to black people in this country. They're demanding
(09:54):
five hundred million dollars. This total comes to fifteen dollars
per nigger. Why didn't you read that part? That's not
the that Wait a minute, I gotta keep reading this
nigger thing. This total comes to fifteen dollars per nigger.
This is a low estimate. We maintain there are probably
(10:15):
more than thirty million black people in this country. Fifteen
dollars a nigger is not a large sum of money.
And we know that the churches and synagogues have a
tremendous wealth in his membership White America and still exploits
Black people. Time is running out. We have been slaves
too long. The church has profited from our labor. The
(10:37):
church is racist. We are men and women, proud Black
men and women. Our demands shall be met, reparations or
no church victory or death. Thank you. Now, there's a
reason why he's using the word nigger. This was him
manifesting this to me, channeling his anger. He was like, Okay,
you don't want to know what that is. That's fifteen
(10:59):
dollars nigger. Now that in a way it sounds like
it's cheap. That's some heavy stuff. Oh those Oh I
wish I could have seen those white people's faces. Oh
they're ambrosis salad. That morning it got willed. Why I
never I never using nigger House of God. Yeah, but
(11:23):
they baptized us and put us on slave ships. To me,
nigger was invented in the House of God by godless people.
So maybe if we flip it and we stormed the capital,
we can get fifteen dollars a nigger, and that's what
he was asking for. He said, give us some money
so we can do for ourselves. And he didn't get it,
(11:44):
and we're still asking for But I don't believe that
America can last, or be strong or go forward if
it does not correct this huge crack in its foundation.
I think of the courage to talk, to come into
this place and stand up in sort of the seat
of religious power. This was I don't think it took
(12:07):
as much courage as you think. People were furious. I
think that he was furious, so to me, I think
he channeled his anger into something that he thought was
at least productive and said, I'm gonna put a number
to this. We're gonna get some money for us. They
owe us, And he was trying to compel them out
of a sense of morality, to beat them with the
(12:27):
stick of justice. He was right. He started national conversation
on on reparations around religion that had never been started before,
and there was a huge, huge, This was front page
news and it really I mean, he did something. It
was like a thunderclap, letting people know that this discussion
about the church and exploitation of Black Americans was joined money.
(12:58):
That's the number one reason America it doesn't have a
reparations program for the living ancestors of enslaved African Americans
because it'll cost her money. Moo lah. That's where the
rubber meets the road. America is in debt to Black people,
monetarily and spiritually. You take it from early activists like
Queen Mother Moore and your favorite Whitney Cally House, who
(13:20):
are pioneers in the reparations movement. You know, I love Kelly,
but really loved James Foreman. I mean, I think that
what he did and what I think is like so
fascinating about the manifesto is that it wasn't just so
specific and like clear, but also the way that Revere
Kimbell responded to it. I think that what he said
something and I'm paraphrasing him here I can't really remember,
(13:40):
it is something about he said you might not like
what he said, you might not like the way he
said it, but the questions he's posed are properly before
the house. And so it really comes down to money.
As you say, it's like what is owed, but also
who's going to pay it? That's true but we can't
oversimplify this because there are other necessary factors involved, like
an apology for slavery, psychological damage, healing, reconciliation, untangling, lots
(14:05):
of heinous legislation that's cooked into the books. Yeah, but
a big money payment is still be peanuts. I mean,
in theory, it should be equal to the amount of
money enslaved Africans have earned in labor unpaid funding. We
blacks invested in you, White America. The debt has come
due with me and the bill is staggering. How much
(14:28):
you got in your pockets player, You know, Erica may
not not very much. And I think that's kind of
how a lot of what Americans feel like they don't
have necessarily have a lot of money, and what they
do they worked really hard for, and they don't see
the advantages that, you know, they might not have money
in their pocket, but they have something else. They have
(14:48):
opportunities and advantages that really can't be calculated. And I
think that's kind of the question we're exploring here. You know,
what is the number that can make up not only
for what was taken with black Americans, but all so
for what was not given right. So James Foreman, this disruptor.
He visited Reverend Campbell the night before his Sunday stunt
(15:11):
to ask him for permission to address the service. I mean,
he's trying to do it the right way. But Campbell declined.
So Foreman did his thing, and you and you heard
the congregation booing. Why I was there to see it,
but you know he was undaunted. Campbell came back strong though.
After a regroup that same Sunday, he spoke about Foreman's manifesto.
(15:34):
He spoke about the evils of the white man and
the black man's mistreatment from the white men. But he
also says that whites have inherited this system. Now, this
is where it starts to get a little dodgy, and
he posits that there's a statue of limitations. You gotta
get that lone limitation on the pain and suffering of
(15:56):
black people, But there is a limit on the time
that white people have to rectify, recognize, and repair the
destruction of black citizens, their most valuable asset creators. You know,
he acknowledges the validity of the question. I'm not sure
he's ready for the answer that a full accounting is
going to provide. I mean, That's really the question, right, Erica,
(16:17):
what is the number? How do you quantify what is owed? Well,
if we're talking about the debt that we got to
talk to uber economist Dr William Derty and he's got numbers.
I mean Whitney, you know, he wasn't always for reparations.
He was a skeptic. I see reparations as something that
(16:39):
is supposed to be rejuvenative of a community that has
been long, long decimated by American racism. But I don't
necessarily see that as being a process that would inflict
any type of unique harm on the non black population
of the United Say, that's a huge relief for me
(17:01):
to hear. I guess. I don't see reparations as a
matter of individual or personal guilt. I see it as
a matter of national responsibility and obligation. And I can't
say what the consequences would be for the country as
a whole if it never happens. It hasn't happened in
a hundred fifty six years. But I certainly can have
(17:25):
the expectation that black lives will continue to be stunted
and denied full opportunity if a step like this is
not taken. Take US through a little bit like what
you believe the debt is and how you're calculating it.
The Black American population that is descended from persons enslaved
(17:47):
in the US is about thirteen percent of the nation's population,
but possesses about two and a half percent of the
nation's wealth. This corresponds to a situation in which the
average black household has a net worth that is now
almost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars less than the
(18:07):
average white household. We view that racial wealth differential as
capturing the cumulative intergenerational effects of racism in American society.
We set as the target for a reparations plan elimination
of that gap and bringing the black share of wealth
into consistency with the black share of the nation's population.
(18:30):
And that would require at least ten to twelve trillion
dollars and resources to be transferred to Black Americans. And
how are you calculating that number? So we estimate, based
upon the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances, that the
total required per household would be about eight hundred and
(18:54):
fifty thousand dollars. There are approximately fifteen million households that
can syst of persons who are descendants of the folks
who were enslaved in the United States, and so simply
by multiplying the fifteen million by approximately eight fifty thousand,
you come up with that number. Hi, it's Joy read again,
(19:23):
and we're back with the next round of the privileged game.
They're so pretty far apart, but let's get into the
next round of questions to see if Erica can catch
up to Whitney. Eric and Whitney, can both of you
still hear me? I can hear you better than I
can hear Erica. I knew you guys would be far apartful. Wow,
you can't even talk to each other now. Yeah, whatever,
here's the next question. If one or both of your
(19:46):
parents were white collar professionals, doctors, lawyers, etcetera. Take one
step forward. Here I go, Whitney reving. If you were
raised in an area where there was prostitution, drug activity, etcetera,
take one step back. I'm good. We're both standing in place.
If you ever tried to change your appearance, mannerisms, or
behavior to avoid being judged or ridiculed, take one step back.
(20:10):
But we probably all did, right. No, No, you're still
standing damn if you study the culture of your ancestors
in elementary school, take one step forward. That's definitely me.
It looks like a dot here. If you went to
school speaking a language other than English, take one step back.
Look at them. Every step he just keeps moving and moving.
(20:31):
Oh man, wow, we think you're a mile away. This
is an absolute blood letting Erica, girl, I can see
how this is gonna end. But I'm looking at the
time and I gotta go. I need to get ready
for my TV show, The read Out. Catch you two later.
We'll see you. Joy, thanks, Joy to the world. White
privilege not just white privilege. This is about privilege. It's
(20:52):
not just d n A. It's also the luck. You know.
I feel lucky, even though I'm way back here. Shoot,
don't tell me I'm not lucky. Okay, So, Erica, I
can see you. Can you hear me? Erica? Are we
far away from each other? Yeah? You're We started off
in the middle of the block. You're almost at the end.
I'm still in the middle, but further from the middle.
(21:15):
I hope you appreciate this privilege. He appreciates it, you
know what, though, I'm sorry to realize, man, I did
pretty good not knowing that I didn't have all these advantages.
If you've ever been cast on a major network sitcom
and been the star of stage and screen, take five
(21:38):
hundred steps forward. Wait, Eric is coming, she's coming fast.
She's blowing by me and she uh, she's out of
sight something what five sixty Wow, that's what network TV
(21:58):
does for you. I blew right past you, Whitney, So long, Whitey.
What did we learn here that being white and mail
is a good thing and being a star of stage
screen is a great thing. Yeah, but it didn't make
(22:18):
up for all that other stuff. Okay, I'm coming up now.
We're talking about you being an actor and famous, but
that's everything else on this question is just everyday things,
and that's what separates it. Not everybody gets to be
cast and TV shows and movies. So it was like
winning the lottery that changed my life. And that's absurd
(22:39):
that you have to win the lottery in order to
get some sort of balancing factor. And it's what you
know I said to you earlier at one point, is
that I don't want to give up what I have.
I want everybody to have what I have. But what
I don't believe that you can have everything you have
without black people having to give up everything. So you
(23:01):
must give up something. So that's what we're sort of exploring.
I think a lot of times people say, oh, it's
it's not a zero sum game. I do agree that
it is a zero sum game, that that there is
gonna you have to give up to get something. So
but that was that was interesting, That was fun. That
was fun for you because you kept moving forward. What
are you talking about, Oh, that was fun. Oh you
(23:22):
know what it's like when you go to amusement park
and you're wondering because you've been standing in line all
day and there's a family and they just move forward
and you go, man, they must got the hookup. That's
what it's like for black people looking at white people,
that you're always thinking they've got the hook up. It's
it's not even a joke with us. We know we
look at white people and they automatically they got the
hook up privileges, the hook up privileges, the hook up
(23:45):
see you later unless these grant thanks a lot. Yeah. So, Whitney,
the privileged game did like we knew it would. But
a powerful way to change the results of the game
is through reparations. Now. I know it's no magic bullet,
(24:06):
I got it, but it beats the slow death if
a thousand cuts African Americans are experiencing. Now, we need
to talk to some folks who can help us do
the math and calculate what's old so we can get
going on this. I mean, please, I don't want to
keep playing that game again and just keep losing. My
(24:27):
name is Bob Johnson. I'm the founder of Black Entertainment
Television and the r l J Companies. Bobby j Okay
right now. He has been on record for demanding the U.
S Government paid fourteen trillion dollars to the descendants of slaves,
and he makes a hell of a case it. He
also believes that Black Americans are giving away their wealth
(24:48):
because they're left out of the many incentives of home ownership,
the biggest transfer. Well, if you think about this home ownership.
When you own a home, two things happen. One, the
government gives you a tax deduction for the interests you
pay on the homeowner mortgage, So one, the government is
(25:08):
subsidizing your home. The second thing is home ownership has
been the backbone of well creation in this society, and
so the home appreciates, and when you sell it, you
have more money than when you're invested in it. So
white Americans on about seventy the ratio of homeownership and
white Americans about se Black Americans about So white Americans
(25:33):
own more homes then Black Americans and therefore get the
benefit of the tax deduction and the appreciation. Now Black
Americans are subsidizing that because if they don't have the
down payment for the home, they have to rent. When
you rent, as anybody who knows who rents an apartment
(25:53):
or rent any kind of property, no you don't get
a tax deduction for rent an apartment in the urban
markets or any place. So you are in effect playing
the same tax. So if you make forty dollars, your
taxes on your forty dollars of income, but you don't
get that tax deduction which reduces your tax. The white
(26:17):
American who has access to capital can get that tax deduction.
That's a wealth transfer. So many black families who rent
are subsidizing white ownership because they are not getting the
tax deduction. They're paying full tax, while the Latin American
can deduct the tax on their home ownership. Because that's
(26:39):
the federal government rule. And so that's a wealth transfer.
Labor is a wealth transfer. Access to paying taxes greater
than the other person is a wealth transfer. And so
where does that money come from? To transfer that money back,
you're saying just to take it out of the budget.
Should there be a reparation's tax? What is the way
(27:00):
you create that revenue? Same way the government always creates wevenue.
You get the revenue from the the individual taxpayers in
this country. Keep in mind, there's no such thing as
government money. Now, government can print money and create more money,
but fundamentally, the way the government pays for itself for
(27:20):
military expenses, health care expenses, social services is by taxing people.
So it's utterly the money belongs to the people. So
reparations is a way of saying to the people of
this country three million plus people, forty million black. It's saying, look,
we need to repair our nation by giving everybody an
(27:43):
equal opportunity and paying damages for people who were treated
horribly for more than two hundred plus years. Economist Dr
Julian malvo I love her me the case for reparations
in two thousand nineteen, which he testified at the HR
(28:04):
forty hearing, which calls for the establishment of a commission
to study reparations for Black Americans. People are very uncomfortable
talking about what they owe us. It's very uncomfortable to
talk about the fact that the foundations of our nation's
economy rests on the backs of black people. We would
not have a wall street, a bond market absent black labor,
(28:25):
absent extracting the value of the work of enslaved black people.
But when you begin to talk about it from an
economic perspective, people get really very uncomfortable because then you
also have to talk about the nature of capitalism. You
have to talk about something called predatory capitalism. Predatory capitalism
gives you the ability to think of five people, basically
dehumanize people. Dr King called a thing of five. You know,
(28:48):
when we talk about reparations, We've got a piece of legislation,
a powerful piece of legislations HR forty, which would essentially
set up a commission to look at what form reparation
might take. I believe that there's a combination remedy that
includes the repair of our communities. We had a hundred
plus black owned banks in the early twentieth century. Now
(29:11):
we have twenty three, Well, what did we lose? And
we lost lots because essentially was a time period where
black people were making advances even though we didn't get
the forty acres in the mule, and then whitefolds bucked
up and said, wait a minute, these people moving too far,
too fast. We need to stop this stuff. And that's
where you got the lynchings, the gym crow laws. Give
(29:34):
us a tab. What's the bill. We can calculate the
value of enslaved work from sixteen nineteen, eighteen sixty five,
but we can also calculate the value of extorted work
from eighteen sixty five to nineteen sixty five. We can
also talk about the value what has happened with economic
(29:55):
discrimination and the value of that from nineteen sixty five
until a present. We could look at the Emergency Land Fund,
which is an organization that looked at the loss of
black land and how we had land and they took
it away from us. We could talk about the black
people who were banished with the sundown towns. One day
you wake up, they say, y'all got to get out
of town right now. So there's so many pieces that
(30:17):
you can calculate, and this this is the reckoning that
our country has to have. You have a wealth gap
where you have one black dollar for it right now
for every thirteen white dollars today. In nineteen ten, it
was one black dollar for every sixteen. So think about that.
And of course, of more than a hundred years we've
had that little progress. Now the number does go up
(30:38):
and down, but one sixteen, one thirteen, and it really
does speak to why reparations are important, and who gets
these reparations and how are they divvied up. I feel
more strongly about community repair than the individual repair, but
many feel there should be some check cuts, some kind
of way. Okay, I'm not going to strongly object to that.
(30:59):
If we leave that it's not just enslavement, but also
the post enslavement period, the g I Bill, the Homestead Act,
all that exclusion. If you believe that, then whether you
got here in sixteen nineteen or in or even in
nineteen sixty nine, you've experienced some form of damage because
(31:20):
of this oppressive system. How do we slice the pie.
Let's get a pie first, and then let's talk about
it right on Julianne. And if there's gonna be pie,
I'll take a huge piece of Pecan oh in Whitney
on Capitol Hill. Wait, I use my upper crust voice.
We had movement on HR forty when football legend Herschel
(31:43):
Walker lent his um expertise in soaring rhetoric to the
reparations testimony going on in Congress. Let's listen in we
use black power to create white guilt. My approach is biblical.
How can I ask my heaven as farm to forgive
me if I can't forgive my brother. I never want
(32:03):
to put anyone religion down, but my religion teach togetherness, reparation,
teach separation. Men have died trying to get into America.
No one is dying trying to get out reparation. Wherever
the money comes from, Who is black? What percentage of
black must you be to receive reparation? If reparation is
(32:23):
a fee or a correction for a terrible sin of
slave owners, government and others. But we punished the non
guilty party. Is it not creating division or separation with
different races? Reparation I feel it continues to let us
know we're still African American rather than just America. No,
(32:45):
not exactly a touchdown, but in all fairness, just because
Herschel's on the field doesn't mean he's on your team.
So I don't think one should throw him the reparations
football and not expect a fumble. Child. Please good luck giljecone.
Next time on Reparations the Big Payback, we meet the
(33:09):
trailblazers of the reparations movement. Calli House was a black
woman who had been a slave, and the federal government
got concerned. They decided because letters were coming from white
people saying, the Negroes are meeting in churches and they
come out saying and talking about someday we're gonna get something.
(33:30):
So you need to do something about that woman who's
going around there stirn them up. And so they decided
to go after her. And they said that she was
using the mails to defraud because she was telling black
people that she was going to negroes that she was
gonna try to get the federal government give them some money.
And she should know the federal government is never gonna
give negroes any money. That's the way they put it.
(33:52):
So it was fraud to be organizing people. And so
you can trace the present day reparations movement all the
way back to Calis House and her ex lay Pension Movement.
This podcast is produced by Eric Alexander, Ben ar Noon
and Whitney DApp. The executive producers are Charlemagne the God
(34:14):
and Dolly S. Bishop. The Supervising producer is Nicole Childers
and the lead producers Devin Maverick Robbins, The producer writer
Serice Castle, and the associate producers Kevin Famm. With additional
research support provided by Nile Blast. Original music by d
J D t P Reparations. The Big Payback is a
(34:39):
production of color Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The
Black Effect Podcast Network in association with best Case Studios.
For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Welcome to Reparations, The Big Payback, a production of Color
Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Reparations.
What is it? It is the making of amends for
a wrong that one has done by paying money to
or otherwise helping those who have been wronged. It comes
from two words repair and action. So thus it is
(00:23):
the action of repairing the damage that one has caused.
It is a now and we need it now. You
tell him, Rizza, you got debt? White America? Protect your neck?
Who turned America? Alexander and I'm Whitney down. Mhm. There
(00:53):
it is. It all comes down to one thing, debt.
If we rang up all the debt white Americans ow
the black amer Perkins, it would be fifty times longer
than the CVS received picture that Whitney. That's mighty long.
Did you know that you're hundreds of years ahead of
me because you were born a white man in America?
(01:14):
But you owe me a debt that is simple? Thank
you can't fix well, you know, Erica, I always thank you.
But what is this debt that we're talking about? Is
it something that I owe you personally or is this
something that all white people of black people you know,
you're the big star. I'm just a documentary filmmaker. I
never enslaved anybody by relatives, as far as I know, didn't.
(01:36):
What is this thing that I actually Oh, how has
this debt been accrued? And how do you think I
should be repaying it one dollar at a time? You
know we've done this before. It's so funny how white
amnesia sits in, like how do I pay for the debts?
How do I pay for stuff that I've done wrong
or you know, in the past. But you know, listen,
this is what the whole podcast is about. It's about
(01:57):
the fact that if you can't see it and you
don't think you owe it, and there's no invoice, then
how is it your debt? And there's the rub, So yeah,
you gotta get to it. The other part of this
is that you got interests, okay, because this debt keeps
growing whether you think it's there or not. It's like
a mountain. So yeah, something's got to happen. This is
the big question that I think all white people ask themselves.
(02:20):
Whether you're someone who believes that black people are owed
something or whether you believe that black people aren't owed something,
you're always like asking yourself, how do I fit into this?
Do I owe something personally? Is that the government? And
what does it actually mean to owe something? What is
the thing that I've gotten by being white that I
need to repay? Well, I don't think it's what you've gotten,
(02:41):
only it's what you can't see. And it is invisible
because it's built inside the structures and institutions and the
banking and the real estate and the military and everything
that makes America America. But listen, I got the receipts
and it dates back to how you and I both
got started in life. And this will show the effects
of the at pretty clearly. In fact, to demonstrate the
(03:02):
invisible advantages of your so called magnificent whiteness and the
unseen disparity of my glorious blackness, some genius created a
contest called the Privilege Game. We're gonna play it outdoors
because we need plenty of role Actually, I know the
perfect place to play this. Okay, good, so, Erica. You
(03:26):
know we're gonna do this privileged walk, right. I thought'd
be interesting to do it at General Grant's tune. Wow,
obviously he was, you know, you know, the winning general
in the Civil War. But it was interesting. As president,
he really went against Johnson, who replaced Lincoln, and he
was really instrumental on ensuring rights for black people after
(03:50):
Civil War. I love the story of Grant. You love
the story of Grant. I do, At least what I
know about him is that he was a little, small
dude who was necessarily the most obvious choice. But for Lincoln,
who kept sending generals in and these types of commanders,
they wouldn't fight. It's like they were hesitating fighting against
(04:11):
the South. And he says, God, damn it, I need
somebody who will fight. And Grants came in, all small
and kind of spiny, and he said, I'll fight, sir,
and he fought. Yeah. I love you, Grant, But let's
get to this game. So the purpose is to demonstrate
the different ways privilege shows up in our lives. So
(04:33):
I've asked our friend, the brilliant Joy read of the
read out to set us up and get us going.
She's going to read a statement or a question, and
we're going to step forward or step back if it
applies to us. All right, all right, you want to
take twenty steps up just being white and a man?
Go go for it. We worked this out like a game.
It'll be fun at least for a little while. May
(04:54):
be fun for you. I have a feeling I might
lose this one by winning you you might lose this winning.
Is that a joke? Say? My winning is going to
be could potentially be a lost child? Please please delusions. Okay,
let's get going, all right, Eric and Whitney, let's play
the privilege game. You're ready, yes, ready as I'm ever
(05:20):
going to be. Good luck to both of you. Actually,
I take that back, Whitney, you don't need luck, You've
got white privilege. Good luck to you. Erica. I know
your story. It's amazing, so many wonderful accomplishments. But even
with all of that, I already know how this game
will end, and it ate with you in the lead,
my Nubian sister. Okay, well, Conda forever, let's do this
(05:42):
first question, If your ancestors were forced to come to
the USA, not by choice, take one step back by
let me just step back. If your primary ethnic identity
is American, take one step forward. If you were ever
called names because of your race, class, ethnicity, gender, or
(06:02):
sexual orientation, take one step back there, Erica, she's getting
a little bit back behind me. Whitney, you keep moving forward.
I've been moved forward once. Sucks for me. If there
were people who worked for your family as servants, gardeners, nanny's,
et cetera, take one step forward. Here I go again.
(06:23):
If you were ever ashaved or embarrassed of your clothes,
house car, et cetera, take one step back. We can
further part pretty quickly. Whitney, you might want to get
out the middle of the center of the sidewalk. There
you go. All right, Whitney, so far you're in the
lead by a pretty wide margin. So Erica, now it
was probably a good time for us to set up
some prayers that you'll catch up to him in the
next round of the game. But first, speaking of reparations,
(06:46):
I know YouTube visited New York's famous Riverside Church, whose
history is connected to reparations. Let's take a listen. Wow,
what a church. Yeah, this is a beauty. You know what,
(07:06):
I love stained glass. It looks like um candy. It's delicious.
It's really really really astounding. Because they can build this,
we can get reparations. It's true, this was no small undertaking.
So you know this is the church where James Foreman
(07:27):
in nine and it was eight fourth. He got up.
There was a Sunday service, right, and he got up.
You know, Reverend Ernest T. Campbell was presiding, big crowd,
mostly white, white, yeah, mostly white, and he got up
and he presented the Black Manifesto. That's right, you know, Whitney.
James Foreman was a well known civil rights activist at
(07:50):
the time. But when he stormed the pulpit and disrupted
that service, he was heckled. I mean, they probably thought
he was there to rob him membership of Minside Church
(08:25):
Black Manifesto. We the black people assembled in Detroit, Michigan
for the National Black Economic Development Conference, are fully aware
that we have been forced to come together because racist
white America has exploited our resources, our minds, our bodies,
our labor for centuries. We have been forced to live
as colonized people inside the United States, victimized by the
(08:48):
most vicious racist system in the world. We have helped
to build the most industrial country in the world. The
Riverside Church is to use its influence and historic reputation
to pressure all white, racist Christian churches and Jewish synagogues
to meet the demand of the National Black Economic Development
Conference for five hundred million dollars in reparations due to
(09:11):
the role of the Christian and Jewish religions and exploiting
Black people in this country. We have stated in our
Black Manifesto that our demand for five hundred million dollars
cannot be minimized. It can only be increase. While we
did not place a time limit on when we wanted
to five hundred million dollars in reparations to be paid,
(09:33):
let no Christian or Jew think that we are going
to string out this matter or that payment of this
reparation can be evaded. We are therefore demanding of the
white Christian churches in Jewish synagogues, which are part and
parcel of the system of capitalism, that they begin to
pay reparations to black people in this country. They're demanding
(09:54):
five hundred million dollars. This total comes to fifteen dollars
per nigger. Why didn't you read that part? That's not
the that Wait a minute, I gotta keep reading this
nigger thing. This total comes to fifteen dollars per nigger.
This is a low estimate. We maintain there are probably
(10:15):
more than thirty million black people in this country. Fifteen
dollars a nigger is not a large sum of money.
And we know that the churches and synagogues have a
tremendous wealth in his membership White America and still exploits
Black people. Time is running out. We have been slaves
too long. The church has profited from our labor. The
(10:37):
church is racist. We are men and women, proud Black
men and women. Our demands shall be met, reparations or
no church victory or death. Thank you. Now, there's a
reason why he's using the word nigger. This was him
manifesting this to me, channeling his anger. He was like, Okay,
you don't want to know what that is. That's fifteen
(10:59):
dollars nigger. Now that in a way it sounds like
it's cheap. That's some heavy stuff. Oh those Oh I
wish I could have seen those white people's faces. Oh
they're ambrosis salad. That morning it got willed. Why I
never I never using nigger House of God. Yeah, but
(11:23):
they baptized us and put us on slave ships. To me,
nigger was invented in the House of God by godless people.
So maybe if we flip it and we stormed the capital,
we can get fifteen dollars a nigger, and that's what
he was asking for. He said, give us some money
so we can do for ourselves. And he didn't get it,
(11:44):
and we're still asking for But I don't believe that
America can last, or be strong or go forward if
it does not correct this huge crack in its foundation.
I think of the courage to talk, to come into
this place and stand up in sort of the seat
of religious power. This was I don't think it took
(12:07):
as much courage as you think. People were furious. I
think that he was furious, so to me, I think
he channeled his anger into something that he thought was
at least productive and said, I'm gonna put a number
to this. We're gonna get some money for us. They
owe us, And he was trying to compel them out
of a sense of morality, to beat them with the
(12:27):
stick of justice. He was right. He started national conversation
on on reparations around religion that had never been started before,
and there was a huge, huge, This was front page
news and it really I mean, he did something. It
was like a thunderclap, letting people know that this discussion
about the church and exploitation of Black Americans was joined money.
(12:58):
That's the number one reason America it doesn't have a
reparations program for the living ancestors of enslaved African Americans
because it'll cost her money. Moo lah. That's where the
rubber meets the road. America is in debt to Black people,
monetarily and spiritually. You take it from early activists like
Queen Mother Moore and your favorite Whitney Cally House, who
(13:20):
are pioneers in the reparations movement. You know, I love Kelly,
but really loved James Foreman. I mean, I think that
what he did and what I think is like so
fascinating about the manifesto is that it wasn't just so
specific and like clear, but also the way that Revere
Kimbell responded to it. I think that what he said
something and I'm paraphrasing him here I can't really remember,
(13:40):
it is something about he said you might not like
what he said, you might not like the way he
said it, but the questions he's posed are properly before
the house. And so it really comes down to money.
As you say, it's like what is owed, but also
who's going to pay it? That's true but we can't
oversimplify this because there are other necessary factors involved, like
an apology for slavery, psychological damage, healing, reconciliation, untangling, lots
(14:05):
of heinous legislation that's cooked into the books. Yeah, but
a big money payment is still be peanuts. I mean,
in theory, it should be equal to the amount of
money enslaved Africans have earned in labor unpaid funding. We
blacks invested in you, White America. The debt has come
due with me and the bill is staggering. How much
(14:28):
you got in your pockets player, You know, Erica may
not not very much. And I think that's kind of
how a lot of what Americans feel like they don't
have necessarily have a lot of money, and what they
do they worked really hard for, and they don't see
the advantages that, you know, they might not have money
in their pocket, but they have something else. They have
(14:48):
opportunities and advantages that really can't be calculated. And I
think that's kind of the question we're exploring here. You know,
what is the number that can make up not only
for what was taken with black Americans, but all so
for what was not given right. So James Foreman, this disruptor.
He visited Reverend Campbell the night before his Sunday stunt
(15:11):
to ask him for permission to address the service. I mean,
he's trying to do it the right way. But Campbell declined.
So Foreman did his thing, and you and you heard
the congregation booing. Why I was there to see it,
but you know he was undaunted. Campbell came back strong though.
After a regroup that same Sunday, he spoke about Foreman's manifesto.
(15:34):
He spoke about the evils of the white man and
the black man's mistreatment from the white men. But he
also says that whites have inherited this system. Now, this
is where it starts to get a little dodgy, and
he posits that there's a statue of limitations. You gotta
get that lone limitation on the pain and suffering of
(15:56):
black people, But there is a limit on the time
that white people have to rectify, recognize, and repair the
destruction of black citizens, their most valuable asset creators. You know,
he acknowledges the validity of the question. I'm not sure
he's ready for the answer that a full accounting is
going to provide. I mean, That's really the question, right, Erica,
(16:17):
what is the number? How do you quantify what is owed? Well,
if we're talking about the debt that we got to
talk to uber economist Dr William Derty and he's got numbers.
I mean Whitney, you know, he wasn't always for reparations.
He was a skeptic. I see reparations as something that
(16:39):
is supposed to be rejuvenative of a community that has
been long, long decimated by American racism. But I don't
necessarily see that as being a process that would inflict
any type of unique harm on the non black population
of the United Say, that's a huge relief for me
(17:01):
to hear. I guess. I don't see reparations as a
matter of individual or personal guilt. I see it as
a matter of national responsibility and obligation. And I can't
say what the consequences would be for the country as
a whole if it never happens. It hasn't happened in
a hundred fifty six years. But I certainly can have
(17:25):
the expectation that black lives will continue to be stunted
and denied full opportunity if a step like this is
not taken. Take US through a little bit like what
you believe the debt is and how you're calculating it.
The Black American population that is descended from persons enslaved
(17:47):
in the US is about thirteen percent of the nation's population,
but possesses about two and a half percent of the
nation's wealth. This corresponds to a situation in which the
average black household has a net worth that is now
almost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars less than the
(18:07):
average white household. We view that racial wealth differential as
capturing the cumulative intergenerational effects of racism in American society.
We set as the target for a reparations plan elimination
of that gap and bringing the black share of wealth
into consistency with the black share of the nation's population.
(18:30):
And that would require at least ten to twelve trillion
dollars and resources to be transferred to Black Americans. And
how are you calculating that number? So we estimate, based
upon the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances, that the
total required per household would be about eight hundred and
(18:54):
fifty thousand dollars. There are approximately fifteen million households that
can syst of persons who are descendants of the folks
who were enslaved in the United States, and so simply
by multiplying the fifteen million by approximately eight fifty thousand,
you come up with that number. Hi, it's Joy read again,
(19:23):
and we're back with the next round of the privileged game.
They're so pretty far apart, but let's get into the
next round of questions to see if Erica can catch
up to Whitney. Eric and Whitney, can both of you
still hear me? I can hear you better than I
can hear Erica. I knew you guys would be far apartful. Wow,
you can't even talk to each other now. Yeah, whatever,
here's the next question. If one or both of your
(19:46):
parents were white collar professionals, doctors, lawyers, etcetera. Take one
step forward. Here I go, Whitney reving. If you were
raised in an area where there was prostitution, drug activity, etcetera,
take one step back. I'm good. We're both standing in place.
If you ever tried to change your appearance, mannerisms, or
behavior to avoid being judged or ridiculed, take one step back.
(20:10):
But we probably all did, right. No, No, you're still
standing damn if you study the culture of your ancestors
in elementary school, take one step forward. That's definitely me.
It looks like a dot here. If you went to
school speaking a language other than English, take one step back.
Look at them. Every step he just keeps moving and moving.
(20:31):
Oh man, wow, we think you're a mile away. This
is an absolute blood letting Erica, girl, I can see
how this is gonna end. But I'm looking at the
time and I gotta go. I need to get ready
for my TV show, The read Out. Catch you two later.
We'll see you. Joy, thanks, Joy to the world. White
privilege not just white privilege. This is about privilege. It's
(20:52):
not just d n A. It's also the luck. You know.
I feel lucky, even though I'm way back here. Shoot,
don't tell me I'm not lucky. Okay, So, Erica, I
can see you. Can you hear me? Erica? Are we
far away from each other? Yeah? You're We started off
in the middle of the block. You're almost at the end.
I'm still in the middle, but further from the middle.
(21:15):
I hope you appreciate this privilege. He appreciates it, you
know what, though, I'm sorry to realize, man, I did
pretty good not knowing that I didn't have all these advantages.
If you've ever been cast on a major network sitcom
and been the star of stage and screen, take five
(21:38):
hundred steps forward. Wait, Eric is coming, she's coming fast.
She's blowing by me and she uh, she's out of
sight something what five sixty Wow, that's what network TV
(21:58):
does for you. I blew right past you, Whitney, So long, Whitey.
What did we learn here that being white and mail
is a good thing and being a star of stage
screen is a great thing. Yeah, but it didn't make
(22:18):
up for all that other stuff. Okay, I'm coming up now.
We're talking about you being an actor and famous, but
that's everything else on this question is just everyday things,
and that's what separates it. Not everybody gets to be
cast and TV shows and movies. So it was like
winning the lottery that changed my life. And that's absurd
(22:39):
that you have to win the lottery in order to
get some sort of balancing factor. And it's what you
know I said to you earlier at one point, is
that I don't want to give up what I have.
I want everybody to have what I have. But what
I don't believe that you can have everything you have
without black people having to give up everything. So you
(23:01):
must give up something. So that's what we're sort of exploring.
I think a lot of times people say, oh, it's
it's not a zero sum game. I do agree that
it is a zero sum game, that that there is
gonna you have to give up to get something. So
but that was that was interesting, That was fun. That
was fun for you because you kept moving forward. What
are you talking about, Oh, that was fun. Oh you
(23:22):
know what it's like when you go to amusement park
and you're wondering because you've been standing in line all
day and there's a family and they just move forward
and you go, man, they must got the hookup. That's
what it's like for black people looking at white people,
that you're always thinking they've got the hook up. It's
it's not even a joke with us. We know we
look at white people and they automatically they got the
hook up privileges, the hook up privileges, the hook up
(23:45):
see you later unless these grant thanks a lot. Yeah. So, Whitney,
the privileged game did like we knew it would. But
a powerful way to change the results of the game
is through reparations. Now. I know it's no magic bullet,
(24:06):
I got it, but it beats the slow death if
a thousand cuts African Americans are experiencing. Now, we need
to talk to some folks who can help us do
the math and calculate what's old so we can get
going on this. I mean, please, I don't want to
keep playing that game again and just keep losing. My
(24:27):
name is Bob Johnson. I'm the founder of Black Entertainment
Television and the r l J Companies. Bobby j Okay
right now. He has been on record for demanding the U.
S Government paid fourteen trillion dollars to the descendants of slaves,
and he makes a hell of a case it. He
also believes that Black Americans are giving away their wealth
(24:48):
because they're left out of the many incentives of home ownership,
the biggest transfer. Well, if you think about this home ownership.
When you own a home, two things happen. One, the
government gives you a tax deduction for the interests you
pay on the homeowner mortgage, So one, the government is
(25:08):
subsidizing your home. The second thing is home ownership has
been the backbone of well creation in this society, and
so the home appreciates, and when you sell it, you
have more money than when you're invested in it. So
white Americans on about seventy the ratio of homeownership and
white Americans about se Black Americans about So white Americans
(25:33):
own more homes then Black Americans and therefore get the
benefit of the tax deduction and the appreciation. Now Black
Americans are subsidizing that because if they don't have the
down payment for the home, they have to rent. When
you rent, as anybody who knows who rents an apartment
(25:53):
or rent any kind of property, no you don't get
a tax deduction for rent an apartment in the urban
markets or any place. So you are in effect playing
the same tax. So if you make forty dollars, your
taxes on your forty dollars of income, but you don't
get that tax deduction which reduces your tax. The white
(26:17):
American who has access to capital can get that tax deduction.
That's a wealth transfer. So many black families who rent
are subsidizing white ownership because they are not getting the
tax deduction. They're paying full tax, while the Latin American
can deduct the tax on their home ownership. Because that's
(26:39):
the federal government rule. And so that's a wealth transfer.
Labor is a wealth transfer. Access to paying taxes greater
than the other person is a wealth transfer. And so
where does that money come from? To transfer that money back,
you're saying just to take it out of the budget.
Should there be a reparation's tax? What is the way
(27:00):
you create that revenue? Same way the government always creates wevenue.
You get the revenue from the the individual taxpayers in
this country. Keep in mind, there's no such thing as
government money. Now, government can print money and create more money,
but fundamentally, the way the government pays for itself for
(27:20):
military expenses, health care expenses, social services is by taxing people.
So it's utterly the money belongs to the people. So
reparations is a way of saying to the people of
this country three million plus people, forty million black. It's saying, look,
we need to repair our nation by giving everybody an
(27:43):
equal opportunity and paying damages for people who were treated
horribly for more than two hundred plus years. Economist Dr
Julian malvo I love her me the case for reparations
in two thousand nineteen, which he testified at the HR
(28:04):
forty hearing, which calls for the establishment of a commission
to study reparations for Black Americans. People are very uncomfortable
talking about what they owe us. It's very uncomfortable to
talk about the fact that the foundations of our nation's
economy rests on the backs of black people. We would
not have a wall street, a bond market absent black labor,
(28:25):
absent extracting the value of the work of enslaved black people.
But when you begin to talk about it from an
economic perspective, people get really very uncomfortable because then you
also have to talk about the nature of capitalism. You
have to talk about something called predatory capitalism. Predatory capitalism
gives you the ability to think of five people, basically
dehumanize people. Dr King called a thing of five. You know,
(28:48):
when we talk about reparations, We've got a piece of legislation,
a powerful piece of legislations HR forty, which would essentially
set up a commission to look at what form reparation
might take. I believe that there's a combination remedy that
includes the repair of our communities. We had a hundred
plus black owned banks in the early twentieth century. Now
(29:11):
we have twenty three, Well, what did we lose? And
we lost lots because essentially was a time period where
black people were making advances even though we didn't get
the forty acres in the mule, and then whitefolds bucked
up and said, wait a minute, these people moving too far,
too fast. We need to stop this stuff. And that's
where you got the lynchings, the gym crow laws. Give
(29:34):
us a tab. What's the bill. We can calculate the
value of enslaved work from sixteen nineteen, eighteen sixty five,
but we can also calculate the value of extorted work
from eighteen sixty five to nineteen sixty five. We can
also talk about the value what has happened with economic
(29:55):
discrimination and the value of that from nineteen sixty five
until a present. We could look at the Emergency Land Fund,
which is an organization that looked at the loss of
black land and how we had land and they took
it away from us. We could talk about the black
people who were banished with the sundown towns. One day
you wake up, they say, y'all got to get out
of town right now. So there's so many pieces that
(30:17):
you can calculate, and this this is the reckoning that
our country has to have. You have a wealth gap
where you have one black dollar for it right now
for every thirteen white dollars today. In nineteen ten, it
was one black dollar for every sixteen. So think about that.
And of course, of more than a hundred years we've
had that little progress. Now the number does go up
(30:38):
and down, but one sixteen, one thirteen, and it really
does speak to why reparations are important, and who gets
these reparations and how are they divvied up. I feel
more strongly about community repair than the individual repair, but
many feel there should be some check cuts, some kind
of way. Okay, I'm not going to strongly object to that.
(30:59):
If we leave that it's not just enslavement, but also
the post enslavement period, the g I Bill, the Homestead Act,
all that exclusion. If you believe that, then whether you
got here in sixteen nineteen or in or even in
nineteen sixty nine, you've experienced some form of damage because
(31:20):
of this oppressive system. How do we slice the pie.
Let's get a pie first, and then let's talk about
it right on Julianne. And if there's gonna be pie,
I'll take a huge piece of Pecan oh in Whitney
on Capitol Hill. Wait, I use my upper crust voice.
We had movement on HR forty when football legend Herschel
(31:43):
Walker lent his um expertise in soaring rhetoric to the
reparations testimony going on in Congress. Let's listen in we
use black power to create white guilt. My approach is biblical.
How can I ask my heaven as farm to forgive
me if I can't forgive my brother. I never want
(32:03):
to put anyone religion down, but my religion teach togetherness, reparation,
teach separation. Men have died trying to get into America.
No one is dying trying to get out reparation. Wherever
the money comes from, Who is black? What percentage of
black must you be to receive reparation? If reparation is
(32:23):
a fee or a correction for a terrible sin of
slave owners, government and others. But we punished the non
guilty party. Is it not creating division or separation with
different races? Reparation I feel it continues to let us
know we're still African American rather than just America. No,
(32:45):
not exactly a touchdown, but in all fairness, just because
Herschel's on the field doesn't mean he's on your team.
So I don't think one should throw him the reparations
football and not expect a fumble. Child. Please good luck giljecone.
Next time on Reparations the Big Payback, we meet the
(33:09):
trailblazers of the reparations movement. Calli House was a black
woman who had been a slave, and the federal government
got concerned. They decided because letters were coming from white
people saying, the Negroes are meeting in churches and they
come out saying and talking about someday we're gonna get something.
(33:30):
So you need to do something about that woman who's
going around there stirn them up. And so they decided
to go after her. And they said that she was
using the mails to defraud because she was telling black
people that she was going to negroes that she was
gonna try to get the federal government give them some money.
And she should know the federal government is never gonna
give negroes any money. That's the way they put it.
(33:52):
So it was fraud to be organizing people. And so
you can trace the present day reparations movement all the
way back to Calis House and her ex lay Pension Movement.
This podcast is produced by Eric Alexander, Ben ar Noon
and Whitney DApp. The executive producers are Charlemagne the God
(34:14):
and Dolly S. Bishop. The Supervising producer is Nicole Childers
and the lead producers Devin Maverick Robbins, The producer writer
Serice Castle, and the associate producers Kevin Famm. With additional
research support provided by Nile Blast. Original music by d
J D t P Reparations. The Big Payback is a
(34:39):
production of color Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The
Black Effect Podcast Network in association with best Case Studios.
For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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