S1E6 - Of Men And Angels

On this week’s rewatch, we dive into all the ways our favorite Shadowhunters have been influenced (read: messed up) by their parental figures. But that’s not all! We also get to hear about some early Malec moments, Dom’s love of dogs and fear of spiders, and how Kat always ends up being the third wheel… hey, Domberto is real!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
A hawk in the hand is worth two Jonathan Christopher's
in the bush. You know what I noticed? I just

(00:40):
finished rewatching this episode because I fell asleep last night.
I don't know. Young Valentine looks exactly like Luke Baines, right,
like spinning image of Luke. You know, I was looking
at this. It's what they did. Such great casting. But anyway,
here we are once again. Why are we talking about
great casting? Because we're talking about Shadow Hunters right down,

(01:01):
We sure are as always, it'd be weird if we
started these podcasts talking about like anything else is shadow
Hunters podcast first and foremost absolutely well. Welcome everyone, Welcome
shadow fam, Welcome angels and everything in between. Back to
our show. Yes, I was trying to I was trying

(01:21):
to volley to I felt it. Yeah, God, it's it's
just it's seven am and I missed that volley. You're
gonna have to lob it up to me again. Sorry, dum.
I will give you massive credit. You're such a trooper.
I know you're not the biggest morning person, and we've
been doing a lot of these very early in the morning.
You know, I just don't sleep, but I'm getting better

(01:42):
at mornings. Not as good as you because you get
like forty minutes sleep at night and then you're up
and ready to go like some absolute psychopaths basically. But
what I noticed is I'm a lot better at mornings
than my girlfriend. I noticed that I'm better than she is,
So I have that going for me for sure. Today's episode, Cat,

(02:03):
why don't you tell us the ins and out of
what we're going to be rewatching and talking about to
say absolutely well, today on Return to the Shadows, we
are going to be talking about season one, episode six
of Men and Angels, which this episode title. So my
TV dad on Arrow, Stephen mL, has his own winery
and he does like partnerships with people and makes different wines.

(02:27):
When he and I worked together, I called it of
Queens and Angels because of this episode title. My last
name is queen on that show. And then I was like, Oh,
let's marry the two and make a wine that people
hopefully will like. What sort of wine was it? It's
a saraw mall back blend m H. I definitely gave

(02:47):
you a bottle. Did you did well? Then? I definitely
enjoyed it. As some pandemic nobody knows, oh, I remember yes,
I remember, I remember, Yes, I did. I very much
enjoyed that bottle of wine. So thank you to you
and Stephen Stephen, Stephen, Stephen Stephen, thank you Stephen. Anyway,
this episode of Men and Angels aired on February was

(03:08):
based on the books by Cassandra Claire, of course, and
was written by Ed Dector and why Sharene Razak who
we love Sharene? She became such a huge part of
our whole journey in season one and was such a
great source of information to kind of teach us as well. Agreed,
directed by Oz Scott. Indeed, it was we have some
new people joining this We have well kind of new people.

(03:32):
We have new faces coming into the show who represent
people that we've already seen. We also have one very
cute new face coming in who is we do super
exciting and you will get to meet him later and
we'll talk about him. And Paulino, who plays Robert Lightwood,
appears for the first time. That's right, that's right, we

(03:52):
do get Polino in the show. So what happens in
this episode, dumb as for this episode, let me tell you,
let me tell you, you took the it's right out
of my mouth. Valentine, Justin, and Luke's history is finally revealed,
and not only is it history connected to those three,
but it's somewhat in transient for everything that we seem
to be doing in the show, the starting point of

(04:15):
everything that we have continued on with this story. With
Luke in dire need of help, Jace, Clary, and Simon
take him to Magnus Layer in hopes of saving his life.
Once they're the story of how Valentine came to be
evil and Jocelyn and Luke's past is revealed to Clary
in hopes of triggering her memory of what happened to
the Motel Cup. Meanwhile, Isabelle and Alec are tasked to

(04:37):
restore their family name in the eyes of the Clave.
So this episode it's otherwise known as Sins of the
father Sins of the father All of this stuff that
our parents set up and kind of messed up we
now have to deal with, which sort of the theme
for the show, but also very apparent in this episode

(04:57):
very much so. Some fun facts about this episode. The
title refers to the shadowhun to race half human, half angel.
If you didn't pick that up, then shame on you
and you've been You've been in Canta clearly because we've
been talking about this since day dot. Wow, we shot
this episode in just over a week. That seems really short. Well,
it was sort of a bottle episode, as it were,

(05:18):
And for for those who aren't familiar with certain TV
production terminology, a bottle episode is one where the majority
of it happens within your sound stage and within your space,
so you don't have to take the extra time and
energy to move everything to a location or two kind of.
There's not really night shoots. There's not a lot of

(05:38):
big major scenes, although they did go and I think
they only had to go to one or two days
to shoot at that and they might have even done
it on a flash unit the flashbacks. Do you remember,
I couldn't tell you know we I mean we weren't
there for that obviously, so I couldn't tell you Do
you remember at one point they were talking about having
us play young Jocelyn and that didn't happen. I was

(06:03):
I would have loved it. I mean, look, I think
the actors that came in and did it did a
brilliant job, and arguably it works better for the show.
But we would have had a lot of fun. I mean,
you gets you would have gotten to do, you know,
and Alan van Sprang, I would have got to do
an Alan van Sprang. Although evidently, as we were talking
about earlier, there is a better actor attributed to play
that role who later on comes and actually joins our

(06:25):
little family. That is true. The episode Circle scenes were
filmed at the park with the State Oshoa, Ontario, which
is a beautiful I guess stately manner is that what
it is? There seemed to be a lot of those,
you know, because we shot at that other castle that
was in the city as well, the horror Castle. Yeah. Yeah,
and also what's his name's Penthouse, Magnus friends Penthouse. I'm

(06:46):
very excited to Ragna Fell's penthouse or castle again. We
got shooting this gorgeous stately home. It's really amazing. This
is why Toronto kind of became this magical lay aground
for us, because we had a plethora of locations and
so many resources that we really could create all of

(07:07):
the realms of the shadow world and every sort of
world we had to enter. There was something a couple
of hours drive at most away that was perfect for it.
At most Yeah, I think the furthest we traveled was,
I mean we we went to do when we did
Harris was the furthest three travel. That's a good point.
Harris is obviously the farthest we traveled. Yeah, but I

(07:28):
mean within Toronto when we did I Dress in the
Lake and that stuff. That was a couple of hours away,
and we stayed up there for a few days to
film all that stuff. Everything else was sort of We
stayed in our apartments and got driven to and from
work every day, which was very cool. Last little fun
fact which I actually didn't know this one. It was
said that Harry sham Junior improvised the moment where Magnus

(07:51):
puts the finger to Alex's mouth, which is perhaps why
Matthew Didaria looks so very very surprised. Stuff to catch
matt off guard. In fact, I don't think I've ever
done it. I don't think I've ever managed to get
him completely off guard, and not for lack of trying,
not just on the show but also in our personal
lives continuing on to this day. I do try and

(08:11):
get him very often, and very rarely does it work.
So props to you, Harry for catching the one and
only Mattie Didario's off guard Harry is so great when
it comes to those kind of things. He has such
a sense of play. Even he'll he'll toss in little
bloopers on purpose, sometimes just because he has a bit
that he thinks it's funny. And they're always my favorite

(08:33):
because you'll just be you know, in the most dire
of situations and he goes, Clary, I just say more
on my car insurance. Okay, can we go say everybody? Yeah?
Him and Alberto both very good at that play thing.
You know. There's a lot of these scenes that happened
that I think both of them take advantage of very well,

(08:55):
with these like dramatic ending shots that where the the idea,
whatever the idea is in the scene is not finished,
so it's you know those I'm not good at these
at all. They always made me laugh because they it's
the you mean, you mean we do? Or you know,
the idea isn't finished and the camera slowly pushes into
your face. Um and Drew and I especially who Drew

(09:17):
came on to be our a camera operator in season two,
we would just look at each other and as soon
as they would say and then give us a slow push.
At the end of the scene, Drew would look at
me and I'm like, I'll do my best, man, but
I'm not. I know that I'm going to laugh. It's
a silly thing to have to do, to just sit
there while a camera inches closer and closer and closer
to your face. But those two particularly are very good

(09:39):
at taking advantage of those moments and turning it into
something either special or hysterical. Yeah. Absolutely. And something else
that Harry does to make things quite special and often
hysterical that we see for the first time in this
episode is him creating potions and tinctures. And you know,
they give him such a sense of a space to
play in in his apartment and actually see more in

(10:00):
season two, which I'm sure it was inspired by what
he did. They created a whole sort of apothecary for
Magnus when they redid the apartment later on. But Prop's
department just gave him everything and he took it and
ran with it. Normally will play with one or two things,
or he'll have an actor do one one thing that
sort of tells the story. Harry goes all out, and
he's creating things and doing things and moving things, And

(10:23):
I remember being on set with him and he's going,
what can and can't I use? Is there anything that
I can't touch or put in or use up? And
once he had those parameters, he just played well and yeah,
and later on your right, Later on they started the
set design team started adding more and more so that
he could come in sort of go what can I touch?
And they're like, everything, dude, you can do whatever you want,

(10:44):
like we've designed this around sort of you. And I
think Harry, for those who don't know, is a very,
very accomplished dancer, and so much of the motion of
Magnus comes from that ability to to move his body
and this beautifully theorial way, and he created all of that.
So I think once, I mean, I can't say. And again,

(11:05):
when we get Harry on, I'm sure he'll be able
to talk to this. But when I guess when people
saw it, they were like, oh, well, this is just amazing,
and let's just let him creates, you know, more of
Magnus as we move on. Yeah, And speaking of more
of Magnus, that kind of takes us into a few
of the book to screen elements of this episode, one
of which being Magnus's proclivity for names and nicknames. You know,

(11:29):
in the books throughout he can never remember Jason's name
and calls him a myriad of things, from Jake to Jason,
to Joe to John or whatever it is. He always
gets the first letter right, which is a real compliment. Yeah,
which is great. He remembers, you know, well, j c.
It tends to be. I'm sure that's where his head
is at. Look, who can blame him for not remembering
what Jason's name is? Depending on where we are in

(11:51):
the story. I mean, it's true, whoever can. But I
remember he was doing that during this episode, and all
of us got such a kick out of it. We
were all waiting with died breath to see what what
name he would choose this time? What name is going
to come out? And speaking of names, something that I'm
rather fond of and still continue to this day is um.
In the books, Magnus gives Clary the nickname of Biscuit,

(12:13):
and this is the first time we hear him call
her biscuit. Yeah, very very sweet, very cute. What else is?
Tell me more, because I get to be educated a
little here as well. Tell me more about the book
to screen stuff. So it's interesting I didn't actually I'm
looking at our notes and credit to our podcast team
for reminding me of this. Um. Robert Lightwood is actually

(12:35):
the harsher parent in the books. He is a bit
more by the books and a bit more of the
strict and stoic parent. Maris is still hard, but we
don't really get to see Robert's soft side, and that's
at least not until much later on, when you know
things are much more dire. Because they get more dire.
If you didn't think the end of the world was enough,
we have a surprise for you. Oh no, oh, I

(12:58):
mean listen, I'd love to see the show our hundreds
twenty because they'd be like, listen, We've been dealing with
these kind of sticks forever. This is nothing. But as
such we get to see some really lovely insight into
the Latewood family dynamics. In this episode, we also get
to meet the incomparable little Jack Fulton, who plays our

(13:19):
Max Lightwood. What a little sweetheart. He just comes in
like a ball of energy every time, and he's you know,
talented little kid, and he's good fun. And another one
of our guest stars who just kind of sit into
the groove of it really well. But the fun thing.
Here's what's interesting when you cast kids in TV shows.
Jack was what was he probably ten or eleven during

(13:42):
this episode, which means towards the end he was fourteen.
And you'll notice at the end of season three the
boy is six ft taol and his voice is deeper
than mine. And we have the same issue with Lola,
who plays the Selee queen um. You know, I remember costumes.
I went in for a fitting once and they were
all exhausted and though I was like, what's going on

(14:04):
are you guys? And they were like, we just had
Lola in. She's a foot and a half taller, so
we had to recustom everything that she wears. People are
so selfish how they naturally grow. Kids are just growing left,
right and center. I remember that with both of them,
particularly when they came in at the end of season three.
I heard this voice behind me in the makeup trailer.
I'm like, who's this? We have a new person, and

(14:25):
it was Jack. Jack. Yeah, little Jack. All of a sudden,
so what's going on? So like, holy fucking shit, what happened?
You apparently have grown kids. So topics of discussion that

(14:58):
we should touch on as we move in through the episode,
and hopefully you are watching with us into the Warlocks episode,
and this is yeah, I mean, we had a sort
of a warlock based episode. I don't know if this
is necessarily a Warlock episode so much as it is
a Magnus episode. We get to see him because even
as a warlock, he's still pretty fantastical. You know, we

(15:20):
meet warlocks who are nurses, who are you know, have
sort of a more standardized position in the world, and
Magnus really took his like fantastical nature and ran with
it and stuck to those guns. So I wouldn't necessarily
say this is directly a Warlock episode so much as
it is a Magnus episode, but we do get to
see a lot more of the knowledge and the you know,

(15:42):
as you were mentioning this sort of warlock chemistry sets
that we start building, and this is sort of the
first time we get to see not just the magic
from the hands, you know, the actual sort of apothecary
stakes that go into this sort of magic. Yeah, he's
not sort of a magical genie in a bottle on
the sisode. He's a healer and he's a sort of
a parental figure and kind of a guide to all

(16:05):
of these kids, as it were. Through this, it's the
parent episode, as it were, you get to see a
lot of the parental figures really come into fruition. And
this is something I think too, that our show did
really well. It's balancing the parent child relationships but very
much humanizing the parents within it. They weren't these sort
of perfect or harsh or one dimensional things that popped

(16:28):
in and out to sort of be the authority figures
in our story. They were human. They were people, and
they had struggles and problems and claus and it really
added so much to our story. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This
also is one of my personal favorite episodes because Alberta
and I really got to play with this and we

(16:48):
really got to start developing what this relationship is, not
just the tension between Jason Simon, which is all really caused.
You know, I've said this sort of from the beginning,
like I think Jason's time and would be really good
friends were it not for Clary, if they'd have just
met superfluous of this you know, this love triangle, I
think they would be very close, which, come to find out,

(17:11):
later on somewhat ends up being the case. You know,
that's a huge foreshadowing for much later on. It's true,
well we know in life that became the case in
life that we know very much in life that I mean, honestly,
in the love triangle of Jay's Clary and Simon Clary
is the third wheel. We know this. Of the Don
Berto Catherine combination, I am the third wheel and I'm

(17:34):
been well aware of this from day one, and I
very much enjoyed watching YouTube just bond and blossom. It
really did the romance blossomed. What was the first one
I remember when Alberto and Emerald? Was it just Alberto
and Emerald were in Argentina because you and I went
to Paris for the Netflix junk here and they went
to Argentina, And I remember that it was the first

(17:57):
that someone asked in Spanish about Domberto and he said
Domberto And I was like, does that mean when I
think it means? Or is it one of those words
that sounds like it should mean? So I asked him
and he was like, hell, yeah, buddy, that means. That's
a real thing, you know. And I was like, that's cute.
But we got to you know this episode we got
to because again, as we've spoken about before, to feel

(18:20):
that anger and that tension and to you know, have
these scenes where we're very tight with each other, you know,
physically with the swords and holding each other against walls
and this that together. It takes some real trust to
do that sort of stuff, especially for me, like I
really don't like people, you know, touching this area of
my body at all. So to have him do that
and trust him implicitly that that is, you know, this

(18:41):
is a safe thing to happen and then be able
to perform around it took some real trust. And I
couldn't be happier that the person putting a knife against
my throat was Alberto. You never thought you'd say, or
maybe you did, maybe maybe it happens to me all
the time, but no, it really is. And especially watching
it back so many years later, you really do see

(19:03):
the two of you bonding as well and having fun.
Even though there is a lot of tension and conflict
there in these scenes, it is really nice to get
to see the two of you find a flow and
find this sort of tense chemistry in the same way
that you know Matt and I did in other episodes
that are Alecan clary stuff. It's nice to kind of
see things develop and see the beginnings totally. The other

(19:25):
thing that's interesting about this is evidently my foot is better.
And I noticed that because I'm running around and starting
to jump off things and I'm in a full sprint
at one point, So evidently my foot is better, which
is interesting to me. I was watching it this morning
and he, you know, Jason runs out of the out
of his sort of black market dealer's place at a
full sprint and hops down the stairs and stuff. And

(19:49):
it couldn't have been more than sort of two months
between getting injured in this, and so the thing that
surprises me about that is I've just done it again recently.
Tour you remember this because I turned up to Mafia
in a boot and on crutches again. And I guess
either that was worse or I'm getting older, because it's
not better. It's still not better, like it's it's you know,

(20:10):
I'm walking around and I was running around with the
dog yesterday, but I can still feel it. It's still
a mess. So if anyone has any tips on how
to deal with although this one was, this one was bad.
I was rock climbing and I came off the wall
at about fifty and I felt my whole angle rolled
and snap underneath me, which is pretty horrendous. But yeah,

(20:31):
if anyone has any tips on how to how to
fix that, any exercises, please let me know. Hopefully by
the time this is it will be somewhat better, but
I'm not holder out. I hope. I'm in my thirties
now I'm brittle. It's like I'm made of breadsticks. But yeah,
that was that was a lovely thing with This episode
sort of spans the entirety of that relationship of Jason Simon.

(20:53):
Almost where you see you get to see the sort
of tension and that continues on through the story, but
just right at the end, you get to see a
little like connection between the two and neither of them
are happy about what just happened, but just a little like, oh,
there are legs for this relationship to turn into something
positive later on, absolutely, which it very much does. And

(21:14):
speaking of that kind of well, we'll get to that
kind of foreshadowing later. But there is another beat at
the beginning of this episode that I love, and it's
something we haven't touched On. It's another book to screen
thing that we don't really deal with later because we
start portaling everywhere. But shadow Hunters don't drive. We do
not drive simply because of portals and flying motorcycles and
other things. And Jayce shows up with a bloody nose. Uh,

(21:37):
and you know we have you have that little banter
with Simon about the Monday driving that's still makes me giggle. Yep,
the air bag must have got me. But then we
dive into Luke is having random werewolf transformations because of
the pack leader's bite. All of these things are happening
very quickly. He keeps having these sort of werewolf seizures

(21:58):
as it were. Magnus is trying to deal with it
while dealing with all of our bickering in the background,
and we see Luke have a vision of Jocelyn where
she says, tell Clary, you have to tell her everything,
and he goes, no, I want to help you. I
want to get to you, and she goes, promise me,
you'll tell her everything, and so he before he passes out,

(22:18):
tells Magnus, you have to tell Clary everything. And it's interesting.
There's a moment they had this lovely moment in there
where you get to see Magnus and Luke connect and
you know, you can just tell that there's a history there,
which we find out so much more of later, but
it's something that they planted that seed so long ago
where you get to see these two have known each

(22:39):
other for decades, if not longer, and there's there's a history,
and there's a trust, and there's an implicit partnership even
between these two leaders in two different parts of the
down world. You're right, these are the sort of two
leaders of these factions, but this isn't This is a
new thing for Luke, who has not been the leader
of this before or so this episode we sort of

(23:02):
finally get our three are three sort of leader points.
And although it is the Seely Queen are sort of
point of contact in New York is really more Melion
and then up to the Seely Queen. So we have
sort of Melion as our as our Seely fairy ethereal
world contact are sort of nature contact. We have Luke

(23:23):
now as our werewolf contact, and then we have Magnus
as our warlock contact. And then there is one more
that's that's not yet. And also speaking of magness. Before
he sends the two of you off on your bonding
mission to pick up ingredients for what he needs to
heal Luke. He also drops a hint that he needs Alec.

(23:48):
Little Alexander leaves a little something extra virgin shadow Hunter
Virgin shadow Hunter energy, which Chase doesn't really flinch at.
That's just like weird but whatever it's or the like,
we're not like best buddies right now. We're like a
bit of a thing. We're having a bit of a quarrel,
like who it is, what it is, but the reality

(24:09):
is and again this comes back to what we were
talking about the end of the last relationship at the
last episode, is that relationship is so pure and so
perfect that like it just gets done, it just happens.
It's just you know, when we need each other, it
doesn't matter what's going on. Very similar to the Clary
Simon relationship in that, like, you know, you make that
phone call and it's like, of course, whatever is currently

(24:30):
happening will be dropped and we will come and help
you out, and then you know it's left where you
and Simon are off running around. He's calling you a lapdog.
All of these things, which oh, so much of that
dialogue is so spicy, and I loved every second of it. Um.
But then we're back with Magnus and Clary, and it's
interesting we see it because Magnus knows Clary's past and

(24:51):
her instincts and all of this in a very similar
way to what Jays does. Magnus starts treating Clary as
though she's a member of the team and as though
she knows that she's supposed to be doing and knows this,
and Larry, who's been wanting to be treated like a
member of the team, is overwhelmed and goes, I'm not ready,
I'm not doing it, starts to shut down. She's lost everything,
she's lost her father, she's as well Luke, who kind
of is her father in this sense at this point,

(25:13):
and she's starting to to, I think understand that many
of the things that have gone wrong, the people that
have gotten hurt, and everyone that's been put in harm's way,
is because of her, and that's starting to kind of
come to a head and weigh on her, and she's
ready to just back out and call it, but Magnus,
being the Warlock godfather that he is, gives her a

(25:33):
patent paper says, go to your bless go to your art,
and let me tell you a story which not just
wonderful parenting, but also a huge plot device that we
have seen one time so far in episode one, we
have seen this ability and again this I thought was
very well written in that this weird things happen in

(25:56):
episode one, but it's so passive that you of pave
over it as a thing to the point where we
were like, wait, why is this ability coming back? This
is mental and then you're like, ah, I see, I remember,
I know what this is. I know what this means.
And they did a very good job of sort of
we call it burying the lead, which is where, you know,

(26:18):
whatever the story Pint is is not ready to be
told in that story. So we've given you the information
as the audience, but we haven't quite told you how
it connects to everything that is so prevalent in this story.
As it were, we also now get to look at
the buddings of our first proper LGBTQ relationship in the show.

(26:39):
This is sort of the episode that it started. You know,
you had a little sort of twinkle in the eye
from Magnus and a little like glance from Alec every
now and then, but this is the episode that we
get to see, oh, there's there's something here, there's a
there's a real connection here from both of them. They're
both enamored with each other, and we just get that
first little taste of what is to come from these

(27:01):
beautiful two. But we have a bit more convincing before
Alec will agreed to come, and he has some family
drama he has to deal with, which, Okay, which family
drama do you want to get into? Do you want
to get into Lightwood family drama or do you want
to get into older shadow Hunter parent ancient history family.
Let's start with Lightwoods. Let's start with Lightwood family drama,

(27:22):
and then we can end on Heavy trying to take
over the world Darth Vadership. Because this is what's so interesting,
and I think because I wasn't there shooting it and
heard it at the table read and then probably saw
it when it aired, but there's so much to this
sense of kind of honor and duty that is carried
with the Lightwoods in the shadow Hunters kind of community,

(27:45):
and since Clari has come into their lives, she's kind
of messed all that up when Americans say duty. It's
my favorite thing. Say duty. Duty. It sounds like you're saying, pooh,
it is hilarious. Duty Darling, duty duty. You're saying, that's
what you're saying, hilarious. Hello, boons, How are you just

(28:07):
give me one second? The dog? It's very funny. I'll well,
Doma's gone. I'll tell the audience. There's certain words that
I say. I'm from the Midwest. We say things all wrong,
certain things at least in Doma's perspective. And U there's
certain words I say that dom gets kicked out of.
So let's just start a list. Duty is one of them.
Vegas is another. Yeah, Vegas is a weird one. Come on,

(28:30):
you can fit. This is Bruno. Everyone, Hi Bruno. Okay,
bye bye, Okay, here's gone. You halfway up. Come on,
there's an adorable dog. That's Tom. You have all the
fluff or not? I love that. This is decas sister's
dog and we have crop course attached. This is a

(28:51):
fun fact about dom that I think is one of
the most wonderful things about him. Anywhere we are, no
matter if we're walking down the street in a random
city or at work on set in the middle of
doing something or anywhere, if there's a dog, Don will
run across the street. He will stop everything to go
and love on the puppy. And even when we were

(29:13):
in Paris, we went to that restaurant and there was
some women had this adorable little puppy. Do you remember that?
And Don literally sat on the sidewalk on the street
and just cuddled this dog for about ten minutes. I'll
have to dig up those pictures because I think Brian
posted one or something. It's one of my favorite things
about You know, they're just the best, aren't they? Just
a little fluff and nudders and you're a good puppy

(29:36):
and they're just so shorait. The neighbor here has a
I can't remember, but the neighbor has one, and I
made friends with him yesterday as well. It's been a
good doggie day. As much as we love talking about
all the adorable dogs in our lives, we need to
talk about the adorable Lightwoods in our lives. So back
to send kind of the Lightwoods and there sense of

(29:58):
duty and honor and uh this role that they play
because you find out in this episode that the Lightwood's
position in the shadow World as the heads of the
New York Institute is purely based on them earning it
by being exemplary shadow hunters and extraordinary soldiers and following
the chain of command. You know, it was bad enough

(30:22):
when you find out that Maris. I don't know if
you find it in this episode or a different one
that Maris was a Circle member. I think we find
out later. But given that they've earned their way back
into the good graces of the Clave, but now with
Clary showing up and Alex sanctioning all these down world
our missions and Isabelle and all of her dealings with
the Sea Leaves and other downworlders, their image has suffered.

(30:45):
And now that's why the parents have come back to
New York to sort of reign in their wanton children
and make a plan to earn back the Claves trust
so that they don't lose the New York Institute totally.
I mean, as much as Maris is the hard one
or but with this sort of level of affection, we

(31:06):
really don't see this broken, affectionate side of her come out.
We don't really see her, you know, a tone for
her wrongdoings until like mid season two or even late
season two, because I all, I remember the first half
of season two. Really is that the Clave thinks I'm
a bad guy, That's all I remember. Episode one of
season two they hunt mem Well, that's when we get

(31:30):
Nick Segar, we get Alder Tree, and that is just
a whole other that's a whole other situation, a whole
other kettle of fish. But I digress again. I'm going
to say that a lot because I do get carried
away with Tangent. It's fine, it is, it is. But
it's interesting because the light would go about it in
very different ways, and this is something that almost puts

(31:50):
a rift in the two Lightwood siblings, but in the
end sort of pushes Alec to make a choice that
leads him on this journey to kind of grow as
an in vitual and come into his own in a
really beautiful way. But you know, they find out because
Isabel is a sleuth that the parents have plans for

(32:10):
both of their children. They are Isabel because she has
these download connections and because of the mess that they've made,
needs to kind of help solve what's going on. Isabel
takes over the role that Alec was destined for. Yeah,
but that's interesting isn't it, because what is the phrase? Um?
You know, we often meet our destiny on the path
we choose to avoid it. This this is sort of

(32:31):
the beginning of you know, as it's almost like Mariss
unknowingly and completely accidentally sparked the relationship between Magnus and Alec,
you know, forcing him to be one thing, pushed him
away from that and really polarized the realization that that's
not what he wants. And then cut two episode twelve,
which we'll talk about and I'll try and remember to

(32:52):
bring this up again when we're talking about episode twelve.
But I wonder if Magnus would have made such a big,
flashy show if he had more time, if he had
the ability to think, well, this isn't going anywhere, so
I can sort of relax into this, as opposed to like,
I'm going to lose this person forever, so I need
to make this, you know. And Maris starts this. Maris
starts she sort of sets that train in motion. And

(33:16):
I think there's a lot of that in this show,
where we do meet our destiny on the path that
we're taking to avoid it in so many ways. But
that's exactly what happens. We find out that Alec, who
was supposed to be the diplomat, supposed to be the politician,
the one to run things, the authority figure, he's going
to be the one that gets married off. And we
don't know to who yet, we don't know what that's

(33:36):
going to entail, but Alec will be married to create
a political alliance to restore the family name, and Isabelle
will have to shape up and quit toying around and
become a soldier and become a diplomat and become the
sort of liaison and start taking her relationships more seriously,
which is very out of character for both of them

(33:56):
and sort of pushes them on their paths to become
as you said, what we see later on in the show,
the people who we know they are potential rotating segments

(34:26):
shadow Hunters in love. Wow again, I am going to
assume that this is Liz is handiwork, who is one
of our wonderful producers. Kind of applause for Liz. Sound effect,
round of applause is honestly full, round of applause. We
used to do this when we're in school. Get it
round of applause, love pun um. So many more puns

(34:50):
seal of approval? Do you ever get that one seal
of approval because it's the C S E A L
seal of approve any of Um, wow, that's a embarrassing um.
If Shadowan dos only have one true love? How does
Jocelyn Valentine Luke plotline work? It's an interesting question we
should talk to our writers is about that, because that's

(35:11):
correct in many senses, the how did Jocelyn love these
two men? And perhaps that speaks to the reason that
the Jocelyn Luke thing never turned into an actual relationship. Yeah,
I think so. I think you're right, and I think
given what we know about where the story goes. And

(35:32):
this is actually a bit of a deviance from the
book as well, because in the book, in the book,
I would say that Johnson and Valentine probably thought they
were each other's love, but weren't. And in the end,
you see because in the books, Jocelyn and Luke followed
love and get married, and that's kind of the big
The big thing that's happening in the last three books
is the planning of and following through with Jocelyn and

(35:55):
Luke getting married. Interesting, but in our series, obviously for
reasons we'll get into later. That doesn't happen, Sure doesn't,
definitely doesn't happen. Doesn't can't love without a heart spoiler
a lot. Anyway, My theory for the show would be
that Jocelyn and Luke are a bit more along lines

(36:16):
of Simon and Clary. You know, they have a real connection.
They are each other's person and rock and support system
in a lot of ways, and have a love for
each other. But it's a very different kind of love
than Jocen and Valentine had, at least for the brief
time that Valentine was still the man that he was
originally before he lost his mind. And Luke arguably has

(36:39):
a greater love that is in store for him. He
does down the road, he does. That's correct, Yes, he does,
see what I'm saying, picking up what I'm putting down
more destiny amount on paths to avoid destiny? How fun? Right?
But speaking of destiny, let's go back, and let's go
way back, deep, deep, deep back. Let's go all the

(36:59):
way back two arguably the early nineties. It must have
been right like this was pre us being born. Clary
was a pre Clary being born. That's what I mean yeah,
pre Clary being born. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it would have
been weird if they shot these scenes before you and
I were born. They just had the brain child for

(37:20):
this show. We're going to shoot a flashback scene, and
I mean, I think we're going to film an actual
TV show. Was Jason born? I think Jase might have
been born, or at least he was a twinkle in
his dad's eye. I suppose at some point there you go,
I don't know that he can have been born. Oh no,

(37:41):
he must have been. Yeah, you're right. He must have
been thinking timeline wise with the box and the brother
who died in a fire. He must have been around. Well,
it would have been between I think between the first
scene we see where we see Valentine rallying the true Hoops,
and then the latter scene that we see with when

(38:03):
we find out what happens between Luke and Valentine and
why Luke is no longer shadow Hunter. I think between
those two two flashbacks, Jace would have been born. If
we're going to get super technical, clearly get super into it,
because the whylands Jason's family in this moment were in
the circle, were they not? No? No, no, no, no no,

(38:24):
I don't think so. Wasn't Selina Herron Dale. You're right,
I don't think we know the official Whyland mother's name.
We just know Michael Michael Way. But Michael wasn't the
Circle and was around at this time. And yes, given
the tragedy of the j C Brother, the j C
Brother and Jas at the same age, so he has

(38:45):
to be he has to have been around so now.
So so we're back in the past. We get to
see sort of the origins of the Circle members and
of all of these things. And huge credit to these
three actors that came in to play these characters because
we you know, we know, we've talked about this before
on the show. It's it can be tough when you're
coming into a show with so much mythology and so

(39:06):
much going on, where you have no idea what the
world is you're entering. But normally you have other series
regulars and other people who are in this world on
a regular basis that you can sort of get tone
and kind of guide and follow their in their stead
into this world. These three had to kind of come
in completely cold and play these three iconic characters that

(39:29):
were already established, that already had a history already had
actors playing them in relationships without any sort of reference
and without even you know, the rest of us to
to be there with them, to be a part of
it well, and also without you know, a lot of
times what happens with this sort of stuff is a
guest that will come in in season two and has

(39:50):
season one to watch and they're like, okay, well, at
least I can see, which actually, in our case wouldn't
have been super helpful because we made some changes. We
made some pretty drastic change just between season one season two.
But they didn't even have that. They didn't we didn't
have the footage to show them. They couldn't even you know,
they could google Alan van Sprang and they could google
Maxim roy And and Isaiah and Stuffer, but they wouldn't

(40:13):
have seen how they performed these roles. They wouldn't have
seen how that you know, the people that they end
up being. They wouldn't have been able to see that yet,
which is very interesting. Also credit to them. I think
this is the first big sword to sword fight that
involved those very fragile, stupid light up The long swords
were the real issue because they were made into do

(40:34):
you remember they were made in two parts. It was
the blade and then the handle the hilt, and they
were sort of glued together, so they would snap at
the hilt very often if you made any contact, if
you swung too hard, they would just snap. And I
think this is the first time Maxim had one in
episode one, but this is the first time we really
see like blade to blade properly, you know, a real

(40:56):
a real proper fight. Um. And again I wasn't there,
but I was there later on when we fought with
those swords and they were fucking useless, So I can
only imagine that these guys really struggled with these swords,
and huge credit to all of that. We also get
to see the morning Star Sword for the first time
in one of these flashbacks. We changed it a bit later,
but I clocked it when Valentine is creeping through what

(41:19):
we find out later to be a sort of the
Institute in address. I have a photo of it, and
you are absolutely right. Yeah, as he's creeping through when
he steals some mortal cup, he does so with the
morning Star Sword, which in season three becomes a huge deal.
Huge deal is that the same sword, the same prop
It looks like it's similar. I think that was the

(41:40):
one that they had in the film and our props department.
I think Tony might have made his own because they
started making the rubber swords and doing all of that
in season two and three. And I'm trying to remember
the stort because I thought with the morning Star sword
in season three and I don't remember if it was
the same one or not. There were two. What was
the It was the morning Star and what was the

(42:01):
other sword? Gold, gleaming golden. Yeah, it's the Heavenly Fire,
the Sword of the Heavenly Fire sword. No, it's just
called the Mortal Sword. I think, where did they go?
Why didn't we end up with one of those props?
Because those belong to Constantine? I see, I see those
are from the movie. See fair enough? Anyway, moving on,

(42:23):
So yeah, so now as we're going through this story,
we really do get to see a lot of the history,
and we see the love between all three and the
jealousy and the sort of radicalization of Valentine as he
has pushed to and beyond his limits in his sort
of archaic also radical also really messed up few of them.

(42:44):
Well that's the thing, isn't it. Like, this is the
This is sort of the first time we get to
explore how far he's willing to go, which, come to
find out later on, is genocide. Like that's how far
he's willing to go. It's it's genocide. And this is
the first time we really get to see that and
see the reasoning behind. You know, I think what makes
a good villain is there has to be an element

(43:06):
of it that you agree with. There has to be
an element of like, and this one's a very drastic
version of that where you have to look really hard
for the part that you agree with. But I guess
from the point of view of if your job is
it's sort of that that like as AMVs. Cascade, you know,
AI or robots or whatever, if they have to follow um,

(43:29):
is it it is as Amos three Laws of Robotics? No,
I don't know. I think, isn't it again? If you're
listening to this and I'm wrong, I'm gonna look it up.
But to your point, at this point in the shadow
Hunters history, the demons are winning. They're starting to overtake
the shadow Hunter's control of the world, putting the Mundanes
in danger, putting the entire world at risk, and Valentine

(43:51):
is using that sort of desperation to weasel in his
beliefs of it is the down roll or influence that
is allowing them to gain more power, and it is
we need more and better soldiers and totally you know,
super soldiers. And that's exactly what I was saying. It
was Isaac Asimov, by the way, the writer of I Robot,

(44:11):
I got that absolute correct. And the three laws of
robotics in that book are. First law, a robot may
not injure a human being or through inaction that allow
a human being to come to harm. Second law, a
robot must obey orders given to humans, beings, um, except
where such orders would conflict with the first law. Third law,
a robot must protect its own existence, as long as
such protection does not conflict with the first or second law.

(44:33):
And this is I think a lot of the reasoning
behind Valentine, like what is the lesser good? Like at
what point do you and this interestingly is the plotline
of by Robot as well, at what point do you
cross that bridge of you were trained to protect, you
were trained to save, you were trained to stop demons
from infiltrating the human world. So at what point do
you cross that line of this to to do this

(44:57):
thoroughly big picture to save the human beings from the
demon world. At what point do you cross the moralistic
line of breaking essentially these laws, these rules where it's like, well,
if we want to do this thoroughly, if we want
to keep this going as our through line, at what
point do you go, Well, you've gotta you've gotta break
some egs to make some moments. And I think that's

(45:18):
Valentine's rationale is you know, no bad guy thinks they're
a bad guy. They think that they're the good guy.
That's sort of the whole thing. They're like, they think
that they're doing the correct thing. And that's where Valentine is.
He believes that what he's doing is the correct way
to save humanity. That is still his end goal. He
doesn't want to rule the world. He wants to save

(45:39):
humanity from the demon world. He wanted to be pure,
which we know morally is incorrect. That is the incorrect
way to go around. And the more we meet our
down world as, the more we noticed that we shouldn't
treat them all as these sort of demons that do
just want to destroy things, because that's not who they are. There,
people with humanity and personality and love and are huge

(46:02):
benefit to the world in general, and to get rid
of them would be devastating loss and crime to the world.
But in Valentine's head, he sees them all the same.
They are all one thing. Demon blood equals bad. And
that's something that I think our show does so beautifully
time and time again, is painting this picture of it
doesn't matter who you are, It doesn't matter what you

(46:25):
are born into. That does not have to define you.
You define yourself by the choices that you make, and
by the what you put out into the world and
and who you choose to become. And it's such a
great message because you know, as we talked about all
the time on set, angels are not inherently good in
our show, the Clave is not inherently good in our show,

(46:48):
the demons are not inherently evil, and everything in between.
There's so many shades of gray. We were fifty shades
of gray before, fifty shades of gray before fifty shades
of gray. Yeah, as I heard us um. Then we
cut back to Clarion Magnus as Claris sort of taking
all of this in and was reeling from the fact

(47:10):
before that her father was Valentine, and now even more
so that you know her father is essentially much worse
than she could have ever imagined. Agreed, Yeah, oh that's
what it is, Sam Neil, because I was wondering about
a quote that that is repurposed in Jurassic Park by
Sam Niel's character. And I think a lot of a

(47:31):
lot of the Clave, and a lot of the shadow Hunters,
and a lot of Valentine, these same people that we're
talking about that aren't inherently good just because they in
theory are on the right side of whatever it is.
Valentine not so much, but the Clave and the shadow Hunters,
and the quote, the T. S. Eliott quote is most
of the evil in this world it is done with
good intentions. And the Oscar Wild version of that is

(47:53):
it is always with the best intentions that the worst
work is done. And there's there is something Dame you
us about that. And we touched on this briefly with
how Maris later on behaves. She puts out a hit
on Jason whatever, but her intentions are still I'm following
the rules. There is a bad guy out there. We
need to get him. We need to either capture him

(48:14):
or kill him. And that's the danger there. And so
her intentions in her head are good, they're positive, but
some of the worst work can be done with the
best intentions. And I think we see that a lot
throughout the show. Thank you, Oscar Wilde. What a quote.
Thank you very much for that. Speaking of though, pure

(48:48):
evil talk, pure evil. Always Scorpion Demon. We see the
Scorpion Demon for the first there's a lot in the
future episodes as well. But dang, that guy burst out
after you were running away from the potion dealer and
move nicely the you know, Deco and I just had

(49:11):
an incident with a spider in Hawaii, and I'm not
it was big. It's the biggest spider I've ever seen,
probably like toe tip to toe tip, probably the size
of my face, you know, around this this sort of size.
And this is why I bring this up, because the
way they move is frightening. It's a frightening cacophony of legs.

(49:33):
But it's like quick and sporadic. And we were in
we've just been smoking. We're in the car and I
just hear her like yelp, and what has happened is
she's in the passenger scene. I'm driving and this big,
big spider has just inside the car on her passenger
side window has just gone and stopped next to her face.

(49:53):
Now I'm not very proud of how I reacted, if
I'm honest. I heard her screen, I looked over, I
saw this big motherfucker on the window. I screamed, and
I was out of the car quicker than you can
possibly imagine. I was zero help to Decca in any way,
shape or form. I was. I was out. I was gone,

(50:15):
like immediately. I was sort of like a Looney Tunes
like my like a cloud of shaped like me was
still sat in the car, but I was. I was
long one. I'm not a fan of them. And then
and then obviously opened the door and helped deck her out,
and then we had to ask a grown up to
take care of it for us. But these demons are
so frightening because they play on those that you know.

(50:37):
They were designed based around these fears that I think
are just normal human fears. If you saw like a
three ft taol spider or scorpion running towards you, you'd well,
I know what I do. I shipp my pants and
probably get eaten by this thing like that would be
my response, Yeah, Jason, I aren't particularly similar human beings
in in that case you had, you had personal experience

(50:59):
too to play into in this. In this episode, so
Alec arrives before the two of you, Magnus, we're running
around the apartment. We're trying to figure out what's going on.
We're back in the present day with Magnus and Clary
and Luke. Luke is going in and out, and there's
a literal earthquake magnus power. We really get to see
the greatness of Magnus's power here. It's so great and

(51:21):
it's so intense, and he's battling this pack leader poison
as it were in in Luke's system, with such great
ferocity that his entire apartment. He's created his own earthquake.
Um And then we see Alec run in because the
stakes are so high, they aren't fully thinking about what
they're saying. I think, but you get to see these

(51:43):
two characters have a moment of vulnerability, in a moment
of panic where Magnus goes, I need you, and he goes,
take what you need, and that's and then they're together,
and we see the hold hands for the first time,
so not only hold hands for the first time. I
was going to bring this up. A fan noticed this,
and I don't know who it was. I wish I

(52:06):
could give you credit for it. Just let me double check.
I believe that Matt is cradling Harry. I think because
because he needs the energy and he kind of collapses incorrect. Yeah,
and I think it's the first time we see it.
And what I noticed, what the what the fan noticed?
And if this is you, then congratulations for spotting this

(52:27):
is Harry sort of fools almost into the lap of
Matt in between his legs and sort of into his
shoulder and cradles into that sort of nook. And what
we notice from that is again it's sort of foreshadowing,
but these characters need each other and they will evolve
with each other, and very much the the Soulmates conversation

(52:49):
that we were having recently is they don't know each
other very well, but there is something drawing them physically together.
There's something comforting within the arms and the bodies of
these two for where when they are with each other,
the world just seems right and it seems brighter and
it seems happier. They like they can, they fit, They do,
they fit, they fit. So kudos to whoever it was

(53:11):
who spotted that. And that brings us to Jason Simon
run in at the last minute, save the day, get
the ingredients. Clary has learned enough to somehow mix the potion,
and I forget what it was on the day. I
remember talking to Isaiah because he was also Isaiah is
one of the healthiest people I've ever met in my life.
He has so much knowledge about nutrition and and everything else.

(53:35):
And you know, because he had to drink this concoctional day,
I'm pretty sure it was some sort of bulletproof coffee
that the potion ended up being. In the end, what
I actually poured it was some yeah, because he was
doing all that bulletproof coffee, or was blending the butter
and the oat milk, and he knows everything. But yeah,
it was something along those lines that still fit within
his nutrition, within his regime. Yeah. Interesting. It's another good

(54:00):
point as well, actually, because that responsibility comes down to props,
and they again were very good at what can you eat,
what can't you eat? What would you like to eat,
what would you like to drink? In these moments, which
is a very very sweet of them and putting a
lot of thought into the character side of it as well.
I remember, you know, even when we went on the
double date in season two, I had a full conversation

(54:22):
with props department of what cocktail Clary would order the
restaurant right exactly, which brings us quite neatly to sort
of our last section of this episode, which is the
duologue between Clary and Luke and Cat. I think you
should take a lot of this because one I wasn't there.

(54:44):
Two doesn't have a huge amount to do with me
or Jase, So I think this is you and I'll
interject with my opinions asn't when okay, I will get
into the elements that we find out about when we
get story time with Isaiah Mustafa. First of all, huge
credit to Isaiah because he had pages and pages of

(55:06):
exposition monologue that he somehow turned into a conversation and
a story. And exposition monologue is something we should discuss
quickly briefly, because we do a lot of exposition in
this show, which exposition is a term within dialogue that
basically means we are explaining this for the audience. Normally

(55:27):
it's stuff that we know as characters. I can at
least speak for me. It's difficult to remember because it's
not conversational. So it's difficult to memorize these lines because
you're just sort of it's it's monologu e. You know,
you're just sort of going off on a bit of
a bit of a sort of seemingly out of nowhere
tangent describing whatever this thing is. And we do it

(55:47):
a lot in the show because we have to, you know,
we're developing this law. We have to do it. But
it's it's hard work, and those are hard days where
you have to sit and prep and pre im laughing
because it's true expositional dialogue. It's not. In most of acting,
what you're doing is doing something actionable. You're trying to
do something or accomplish something, or achieve get after whatever
it is. So there's an action associated with whatever you're doing.

(56:10):
An exposition there isn't. Really, it's a much more passive thing.
But I had a bit of a giggle as you
were describing that so aptly, because you know, people tangenting
and talking at each other for long hours and telling
stories and describing things we know nothing about that. That's
not at all. That's exactly what we're doing right now.
That's exactly what we're saying here doing right Um, So exposition,

(56:35):
I'm gonna exposition about some exposition. How's that? This is
truly one of the silliest questions Clary. Clary asked a
lot of dumb questions, but there's there's one in this
episode that Isaiah and I had a real laugh about
because there's a moment when he reveals that Luke and
Jocelyn were in love. And you know, as we said,

(56:56):
what kind of love, love has many different definitions, etcetera, etcetera.
They loved each other. And for some reason, Clari's first thought,
and most likely because she's in a bit of shark
and and it's just desperate for anyone to be her
father but Valentine. She asks Luke, does this mean you're
my father? And Isaiah's reaction is so perfect, just very

(57:18):
lovingly kindly. He just goes, no, no, no, sweet, I'm
not you know you want anyone but Valentine to be
your father right now? But no, not even remotely possible.
But that also that brings into into question the debate
that is sprung by this relationship most thoroughly in the

(57:41):
show and then also later on with sort of Jason
Merris and and Paulino. There are two different definitions of
being a father. There's being a father, which is a
genetic father. You gave you know, your DNA and produced
this person kind of anyone can do that. That's just
being a father. Being a dad is a very different thing.
Being a dad is the person who is there who

(58:02):
raised you, who created you, who created your spirit and
your soul and pointed your compass where it needed to
be with your morals and with your instincts, and with
your intentions and with your actions. That's what a dad is.
So Luke, and again correct me if I'm wrong, but
what I saw on screen is and between the two
of you when we're on set is Luke is not

(58:24):
your father, but Luke is your dad. Absolutely, you know
what I mean. And the same thing with with Jason
the Lightwoods. The Lightwoods aren't his parents, but are aren't
his biological parents, but are his mom and his dad. Absolutely,
you're right. And this is something that again our show
does really beautifully, is this idea of chosen family. You know,

(58:45):
we we don't get to choose our biological family in
this life, and and neither do these characters. But we
always have the opportunity to find people that become our
family and that feel like family and see us for
who we are, except us for who we are, love
us for who we are, and we do the same.
And that can be your support system and your family

(59:08):
as you go through life. And it's it's a really
beautiful thing and something I always equate with, you know,
Clary's journey paralleling my own. With the show, all of
you became and still are and always will be family
to me. It's very sweet. Um keep talking about what
happens next, so we that we hit a pretty major plot.

(59:28):
We do, but we also find out in this section,
and I think it's important to point out, as Luke
describes what Valentine's plans were, we find out a little
bit of mythology of how shadow Hunters are created. We
get to hear this sort of concept shadow Hunters can
be born. If you are born of two shadow Hunters,
you will also be a shadow Hunter. But you can
also be made by drinking resils or the blood of

(59:51):
an angel from the Mortal Cup, which is one reason
why everyone is trying to find the cup because they
know that whoever possesses the cup can create more shadow hunters,
and that was you know, the Clave has outlawed the
use of the cup since Valentine and the Uprising, but
hence why the cup is is so significant. But as
we go through, you find out also why Luke is

(01:00:13):
no longer a shadow hunter, which is also having to
do with Valentine, where he was jealous of the love
between Jocelyn and Luke and double crossed his own parabatie,
which is potentially the greatest of sins when it comes
to being a shadow hunter is betraying and abandoning and

(01:00:36):
destroying the bond that is too parabtie um and he trapped,
which we touched on in a previous episode when we
were talking about real life or or parabtie that exists
in different worlds, and when we brought up Caesar and Brutus,
we were like, not really, but then also kind of
because that's very similar to this situation that happened between
Luke and Valentine. Is sort of an a too Brutus

(01:00:59):
kind of deal, And we also get to see before
this conversation, actually I think it's important to touch on something.
There's a few moments of other foreshadowing and another love
triangle that happens. This is also the first time that
Clary thanks anyone for anything before she goes in and
has the conversation with Luke. Before she does any of that,
she has a moment with Alec where he's done his

(01:01:22):
job and had a nice connection with Magnus and done
all of this. Clari pauses and recognizes the fact that
she has put Alec out and caused forced him to
kind of make these choices and been really difficult for him,
and thanks him in a way. But also Clari is
the first person to kind of recognize and encourage his

(01:01:42):
connection with Magnus because she she says, well, you know,
thanks for doing this for Jayce. It's you know, he
really appreciate you know, it's good. I'm glad you guys
are on okay terms again, and he just very simply says,
I didn't do it for Jace, and Clary goes, oh, well,
then I'm glad you did it for you. Because there's
was very apparent chemistry between the two of them, and
we see later on they have a lovely little drink

(01:02:05):
while they're cleaning up the apartment while Clari and Luker
having this conversation, and you really get to see those
sparks fly. But there's you see so much growth in
Alec in this episode, and it's a lot of foreshadowing.
Another beat of foreshadowing which I didn't realize this until
we watched this episode. Clary also thanks Jace and they
have a lovely little flirty moment and then focus shifts

(01:02:27):
and Simon's in the background. Now you and I know that.
In season two, episode fourteen, which is another big book moment,
there's another moment where Clary and Jays have a connection,
rack focus to Simon in the background, and it is
almost the exact same configuration. I didn't realize it until
I went back and rewatched this episode. We have the
opposites of those that happened as well, with where the

(01:02:51):
roles are shifted and rack focus to another character. Without
giving too much away, it's Jason's Simon and clary'son back.
Oh if only we would have had a lot of
fun if that was the case. Alternate Universe Future episode,
but lots of foreshadowing, foreshadowing and flashbacks past present future.

(01:03:15):
But in the end, it all comes full circle. They're
trying to piece together. Luke goes, I've told you everything.
Why your mother said you would know where the cup is.
Clary still doesn't know until she goes, wait a minute,
there's one more piece to this puzzle, pulls out the
j C box from her bag. Luke instantly pales. Clari knows, okay,
what there's something to do with He goes no, he

(01:03:36):
shuts down. He's like, I'm not telling you about the box.
It's not my place. I can't I don't know. After
Clary pushes him a bit, we find out which is
actually this The fire at fair Child Manner is a
lot bigger deal than in the books than it is
in our show, and I'm glad to be touched on
it here because it leads everything to who is j C.
We find out this moment. What's in the box is

(01:03:59):
what we find out. They could have opened the box.
They don't open the box. We do later we find
out what's in it later. J C stands for none
other than Jonathan Christopher, which we find out is Clary's
older brother who died in a fire when we thought Valentine.
Because the people have thought Valentine has been dead for
about eighteen years. Valentine and Jonathan supposedly died in a

(01:04:22):
fire fair child manner that Valentine set himself, and it
has been the reason that Jocelyn fled. It was the
reason that Clary has been kept a secret. It is
the reason that the circle was destroyed and that all
of its members had to either go into hiding, go
to prison, or reform. We obviously find out that Valentine
survived the fire. Jonathan Christopher is still supposed dead, but

(01:04:46):
the fact that not only has clary E been lied
to for nineteen years, her father's Valentine and her mother's missing,
she also has a secret brother and that is enough
to sort of raise her emotions. Suddenly, the box disappears
into her path of pay her. You look over, it's
a drawing of the box, and suddenly the pieces fall
into place. We realized now that these things that have

(01:05:08):
been happening is actually a result of a special ability
that Clary's angel blood has given her. Given that her
mother was an artist, she was an artist. This ability
has been passed down through generations, which is why Joscelyn
fostered Clary's love of art and hid her own for
so many years to keep them hiding, to keep Clary's
abilities developing, whether or not she understood it subconscious. Yeah,

(01:05:30):
and this is when, as mothers usually tend to be right.
In the end, Jocelyn's plan works, It clicks into place,
and Clary understands where the cup is hidden. And then
we move on to the next episode. But thank you
so much as always for listening, Thank you for coming
on our little journey. Next episode we get to discuss

(01:05:53):
a whole mess of new stuff. We get to have
actually quite a lot of fun with the next episode.
Because is that not the police station? It's the police station,
It is the more Scorpion demons. It is a little
bit of shape shifting and a lodder love, a lodd
of love, if I'm not wrong, a big misty cliffhanger.

(01:06:16):
Is that not how we end episode seven with someone
being presented to us? So? Is that not the end
of episode seven? Lots to come back for. Thank you
always and forever for listening and for being our family
in this Thank you for being our shadow fan and

(01:06:36):
make sure you subscribe to Return to the Shadows wherever
you get your podcasts. And while you're there, feel free
to drop us a review. Until next time. Return to
the Shadows is hosted and executive produced by me Dominic,
Sherwood and Katherine McNamara. Our executive producer is Lingley. Our

(01:06:57):
senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Type, and our
producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin. The original music by
Alex Kinsey, performed by Alex Kinzy and Katherine McNamara, and
the episode was mixed by Seth A landscape