December 28, 2023 • 47 mins
You sell the Eiffel Tower for scrap. You con Al Capone. You destabilize the American dollar. You get a sheriff arrested for counterfeiting. You end up at Alcatraz. You are Victor Lustig and you are one smooth criminal.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Zaren Elizabeth Listen.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Yeah, you know it's ridiculous. Oh my god. Do you
like German chocolate cakes? Yeah? Sure, right? Do you know
the secret of German chocolate cakes? Not like how to
bake a good one? But what the secret is? I'm
scared it's not German?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah, So turns out German chocolate cake was actually named
after an American named Samuel German. No. Yes, So in
nineteen fifty seven, this there was this recipe called Germans
German's Chocolate Cake, and it appeared in this the Dallas
Morning News as the recipe of the day, submitted by
missus George Clay. So we don't even know her real
name because she went by her husband's name, because it's
(00:37):
nineteen fifty seven. So this homemaker from Dallas, she submits
this recipe and it was from an eighteen fifty three
recipe of an American baker, Samuel German, who had made
this cake for you know, Baker's Chocolate Company, so owned
by General Foods. Well, they published this recipe and within
like it becomes a sensation across the country. Sales of
chocolate Baker's. Baker's choclate went up by seventy three percent,
(01:00):
and from that point on, we've had German chocolate cake,
and people then just drop the Germans because it didn't
sound as much fun as German chocolate cake, and fools
like me thought it was German. I'm over there asking Germans, oh,
when you guys go for a good German chocolate cake
and they look at me like I'm an idiot, which
they often do.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But whatever, coconut right now.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's all this, Yeah, the shavings and all that. Yeah,
I think it's good coca coconut and shavings on movie.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That's not very German.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
No, that was the thing. That's why I'm like, when
did you guys get all coco for coconuts?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
You know what, that's ridiculous, Hey, ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well done. Uh do you know what else is ridiculous?
Speaker 4 (01:30):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I do not. That's what I'm here for.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Conning al Capone. What this is ridiculous Crime A podcast
(01:57):
about absurd and outrageous capers. Heisen cons it's always ninety
nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous. I
know you heard that zaren you like to quote Biggie's
crack commandments?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I do, I do. It's good philosophy.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Let's let's clarify that we're talking about the late rap
superstar Notorious Big and his tune ten crack commandments.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yes, and not the wrestler Big E what we and
let me recount them for you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So rule number uno, never let no one know how
much dough you hold. So that's don't let anyone know
how much money you have on you. Number two, never
let them know your next move.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Don't you know bad boys move in silence and violence. Yes, yeah,
so that's self explanatory, dude, Real G's moving silence like Lasagna.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Exact.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
Number three. Never trust nobody. Yes, now we're going to
ignore the double negative. Why, so that makes it you
can trust everybody. Never trust nobody. Number four.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Never get high on your own supply.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So important.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That's incredible advice for all sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Even if your supply is just your own ego exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Number five. Never sell no crack where you rest at. Yes, yeah,
which I mean I abide by that.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And numbers So don't bring your business home.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That goddamn credit dead it it Yes, which don't sell
your wares on credit.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yes' front for nobody.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yes. Seven, keep your family in business completely separated. That's
always good.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I think Ben Franklin would agree with all of this.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Number eight, Never keep no weight on.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
You, yes, never someone else holds it for it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Again you know, so, don't don't have the drugs on
your person.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
These are the way they stay free.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Number nine. If you ain't getting bagged, stay there from police. Yes, so,
don't cooperate with law enforcement. Number ten A strong word
called consignment, so you know, meaning it's only for seasoned
drug dealers to use a system whereby the drugs are
shit to a dealer who pays only for what is
(04:02):
sold and who may return what is unsold.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Or it's an arrangement in which goods are left in
the possession of an authorized third party to sell.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yes. Basically you would only front to somebody who you
really trust. So like Pablo Basketbar, may can do consignment,
but you shouldn't as a local dealer, right.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And I'm just gonna admit I have no idea what
all that means. You know, you're very convinced, you know
who had crime commandments long before Biggie Smalls, Jesus, Victor Lustig.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Oh I was close.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, Noah Moses nd Nicodemus Adam okay, so Victor Lustig
he created the ten commandments for con men.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Oh right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Number one, be a patient listener. It is this, not
fast talking that gets a con man his coups, all right.
Number two, never look bored. Yes, that's good advice. Three,
wait for the other person to reveal any political opinions
and then agree with them.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yes, okay. Number ever express yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Number four. Let the other person reveal religious views, then
have the same ones once again.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Emulate your person you're talking about, right.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Next one, hint at sex talk, but don't follow it
up unless the other person shows a strong interest. Yes,
that's always good advice.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
We're all smart for conversation exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Never discuss illness unless some special concern is shown. And
we're just going with like this is how to you know,
be in public. Never pry into a person's personal circumstances.
They'll tell you all eventually. Again solid, never boast, Just
let your importance be quietly obvious.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I kind of live by these. These are solid.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Never be untidy, and lastly, never get drunk.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Damn. I was good for up till then I got
all ten?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So who is this professor of CON's?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Who is this professor of cons Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Count Victor Lustig?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Want to be Lustig?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Lustig? Sure, I'm just americanizing.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Here's the thing. I say things wrong all the time.
I mispronounce, I do bad accents. I'm not trying to
neither one of us are trying to do an effective
as No.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
But sometimes I do put the like when I'm going
to say a word, I'll put the emphasis on the
wrong sol.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Oh yeah, I do that all the time too. So
what I'm trying to say is that I don't care
if I say things wrong, nor should anyone else Anyway, Lustig, Lustig,
what have you?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Vi?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Vic?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
He wasn't a real count, and as many like we have,
all these con artists that we discussed, he liked to be,
you know, fake, being a member of aristocracy. But also
he had this air about him that people just called
him that. In his long career of criming, he never
held a gun.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I like it, I know, I really like that. Have
to force it, don't force the issue exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
His hobby collecting butterflies and pinning them in shadow boxes.
I like it, you know, pen and notunt me like
a butterfly. As the Despicable Morrissey would sing so many
double entendres. He was always kind of the Ladies smooth talker.
He was born in hostin a Bohemia ninety yeah, Bohemia,
land of my grandpa's people and con artists. He used
(07:10):
to tell people that his dad was the mayor of
his hometown. It's not true, it's not true. He later
admitted that his parents were quote the poorest peasant people. Okay,
which is you know, that's good, nothing wrong, But he
said he had to turn to crime just to survive.
Times were so tough. In twenty fifteen, a historian from
(07:30):
Hostine started looking for biographical information about his town's famous native.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Son, most prominent residents and yeah who.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
The problem is that the Nazis had burned a lot
of records, and so he was looking through what was left,
and it looked like there were records remaining that aligned
with the time that he was in town. There's absolutely
no mention of him in anything, school roles, electoral records, anything,
So whether he was telling the truth or not up
in the air.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Maybe he was a homeschooled or aristocrat.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It could be. But you know, here's here's what I say.
Who knows who cares?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah right, he said, I sort.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Of care, but like I don't. Anyway. As a kid,
he started out panhandling, and that led to pickpocketing, and
that led to burglary, which led to street hustling.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
It's a nice little step one, two, three.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
He mastered card tricks, according to True Detective magazine, quote palming,
slipping cards from the deck, dealing from the bottom, and
then by the time he reached adulthood, he could make
a deck of cards. Quote do everything but talk, so
I like you. By the time he was nineteen, he
made his way to Paris and that's where he got
into gambling. Yes, he learned a bunch of languages when
(08:42):
he was there. He wound up speaking six languages.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Oh, I'm so jealous. I know, right, I've always wanted
to speak six languages.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I can barely speak this one.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I'm trying to work my way into two.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Okay, what two English?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
And what?
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Well?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Why Spanish is basically you know California work Spanish, right, right,
but also my vocabularies. I went to school so I
can understand far more. It's much like a French. I
can read it because of my vocabulary, but I can't
really speak at the grammars still, like on the mode terrible. Anyway,
So I guess that's almost two languages. Would be if
you could buy my Spanish and my French.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
So anyway, this dude's six languages, so amazing. He learned
how to read people and how to manipulate situations. He
also played competitive level chess.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Oh yeah, he's a brain.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
He picked up a humdinger of a scar on his
face thanks to a dust up with a love rival.
Speaker 6 (09:28):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I thought it was gonna be like in a chess
match and one like buried or rook in something.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Well, let's say that happened. Yeah, he just got it,
like you know, he was fighting over something, Okay, so
she cut him. Yeah, so he got his first real
crime gig on Transatlantic.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Voyages oh steamship right.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
He especially liked to target the nouvau riche, so he'd
hop on a liner in one of the Atlantic ports
in France and then ship off to New York City.
He'd mentioned to the swells that he who was like
this musical producer looking for investors for his Broadway production.
There's no production, of course.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So things stopped for him in World War One because
Transatlantic liners, you know, you know, couldn't make it a
getting sunk a little problem, and he needed to find
a new place to con and what better choice than
these United States of America.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So rich, so ready to be picked.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So this was a booming time in the US for
cons It's the age of Charles Ponzi.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Oh yeah, this is we said, basically just after World
War One. So we're going into the Roaring twenties big
time for christ exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
And you know, we've had a number of criminals on
this podcast who cast about the States. At this time.
People were suckers for unidentifiable European accents.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Oh we still are.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Oh I know. So there were like all these smooth,
non violent, charming scoundrels.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm going to again quote True Detective Magazine that Lustig
was a man who quote society took by one hand
and the underworld by the other. A flesh and blood
Jekylin Hyde. Oh yeah, because he was he was messing
with like all the rich folks and with like the
mom in the Underworld.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
It's also kind of fun to picture him as a
kid and those are his parents and he's like swinging
from their hands as they're walking down the sidewalk. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Nineteen nineteen, he married a woman named Roberta Okay, and
she was from Kansas. Pretty old Kanson. This was one
of the many loves in his life. In nineteen twenty five,
he then heads back to Paris. He's like, Bertie, it's
been great, hanging tight. She's you know, he's gone.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I gotta go check on Hemingway.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah. So he's like, I gotta go to Paris and
it was there. While he's there, he learns that there
are problems with maintaining the Eiffel Tower and the thing
fallen apart. It really desperately needed a paint job.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
He needed some new ratchet on there. Rabbits.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I mean, that's the problem, rashets is that they call
him over there. So there was all this talk that
they were just going to tear it down.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
The Eiffel Tower.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, it was so busted up.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It wasn't it put up like eighteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, but it was only supposed to be sort of temporary.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
For this world.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, so you know, Victor's there, light bulb goes off
in his head. In this criminal brain of his. He
had someone print up stationary for him that had the
official French government seal on and he used that stationary
to write to some scrap metal dealers. Okay, and he said, hey, guys,
(12:21):
I'm a government official.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Love me.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Can I meet with you at the Hotel de Crient. Again,
I don't do accents. Why not though a super swanky hotel.
Please be discreet, he says, this is confidential, wink wink.
So at the hotel, he introduces himself as the Deputy
director General of the Ministry of Posts and Telegraphs.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I believe it, that sounds right.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So he tells the men this sorrowful tale about how
it was just costing way too much to maintain the
Chili Fell quote because of engineering faults, costly repairs and
political problems. I cannot just gus the tearing down of
the Eiffel Tower has become mandatory.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
How much and how hard it is to paint this thing,
and it's such a shame.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, so no one ever liked it as such, the
French government looking to sell it for scrap.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Beauty.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, it just doesn't fit in with the rest of
the city architecturally.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
We have the park.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
However, this is going to upset a lot of people
that we want to scrap this thing. They'll take their
anger to the streets, as is their wont So that's
why you need to be so secret about this. That's
why you can't tell anyone about this meeting. No one
tell no one about this. So Victor tells the group
that he's responsible for selecting the dealer who will receive
(13:40):
ownership of the structure. So it's just like kind of
an audition. This is seven thousand tons of metal. Yes,
this is a big job, big payday. He even rented
limos and like took the dealers on tours of the tower.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Wow right, I mean, that's just Gus's the show.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So as he tells this tale, he tried to figure
out who the most gullible of this group is. He's
like looking at him, like that guy is a mouth breather.
I don't know about him. So he sees this one guy,
Andrea Poisson. He's a social climber, Like he's new in
Paris and he wants to build up his business, and
he's just like glad handing everyone. So that's who Victor
sets up a meeting with Andre Fish Andre Fish, and
(14:19):
it was there like at this next meeting, he's like, Andrea,
I'm crooked. I am fully corrected. Are you into that?
Because I'm into that. I'll take a bribe in exchange
for getting you the contract, but you know you got
to juice me. So Andre hands over about seventy thousand
francs and it's just pleased his punch with his steel.
(14:42):
He's like, hey, the contract's mine. Victor is like, may
he goes to Austria. He's like, I'm out of here.
So he's in the wind. He got away with the scam.
Andre too ashamed to admit like how gullible he was,
and so Victor's watching like is there any news in this?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Nothing?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
So he's like, you know what, I'm going to do
it again.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I'm going back.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
He goes back to Paris, so he set up everything
as he had before, the stationery, the hotel, and this
time he takes another like selected group of.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
More scrap dealers. How many scrap dealers?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Place is lousy with scrap dealers every street corner, so
like one of them. Oh, he gets a little uneasy
in this meeting. He's like, this just doesn't add up, Like,
why aren't we meeting in government offices? Yeah, so he's like,
you know what, I'm going to the cops. I don't
trust this squeals on on Victor. Doesn't matter. He's already
(15:38):
long gone to the States before the fuzz could catch him,
because he's like I think, I think.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So he gets back to the States and he continues
these con man ways with even more inventive means. Nineteen sixteen,
he like he created his own church on the Manhattan waterfront. What, yeah,
this is this like small mission? He said. The service
would quote swell all hearts and souls with joy.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well, eventually all scoundrels will find their way to the churche.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
He copied a Polish Catholic priest speech word for word
and then ad libs some bits.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Okay, but like it was the general thing, and a
couple of connections.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
The flock blown away. They're like this is so.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Moving, oratory, genius, so moving.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I'm going to fork over collectively ninety dollars. That's like
twenty five hundred dollars today in the offering.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
From a waterfront church that's a lot of mo and
this wasn't.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
A long con. This was just he got the cash
and disappeared.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Sus.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, exactly exactly. Then he set up a fake off
track betting shop and so he would pose as like
this displaced European aristocrat, Count von Kessler, and then he'd
trick a rich guy into going with him to like
place bets this sting.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Inside the fake betting shop, he had actors playing employees
and it looked completely legit. And then you know, Victor
in the fat they'd like listen to the broadcast of
the race through the shop speakers, except it wasn't the race,
one of his guys in the back room calling the
fake race, and then they'd soak the guy and then
move on.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
This is exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Exactly is inspiration. So let's take a break. When we
come back, I'm going to share with you more antics
of Victor Lustig. Welcome Victor if you're not Count Lustig.
(17:48):
In his life, he actually had like scores of aliases.
He used all these sorts of fake names.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Do you have any good ones?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
No?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
His later so his most ingenious scam was the room.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Manian Box, the Romanian box.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
The Roumanian box was a pretty good sized wooden box.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
And you're not pronouncing Romanian with a slow use, are you.
Okayian box.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So there's this big box, well kind of like I
don't know, I've seen some of the things said that
it was a small box. Some said it was the
size of a steamer trunk.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Oh, a lot of questions.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
He made more than one. Okay, so I think there
was like whatever box was.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Handy, like this is the box I got right now?
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
So he would put like all these dials on the
outside and had rollers inside.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And he said that the box was able to duplicate
cash using radium. What I don't know?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Wait wait, wait, money could be duplicated using a radioactive
material because we all know money, you know, it's this new,
brand new thing. Yeah, people are like X raying your bones,
which like blows people's minds, like you can see through
my hands exactly. How would that make money?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Just trust the box?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Okay, trust the box.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
So all you had to do was insert a bill
into an entry slot okay, and then he had to
wait six hours while it creates the coffee. The coffee
would come out this exit slot.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
So this is like a mission impossible face mask machine,
but some money go in there, take a little picture
and run it through.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So he'd ask the mark for a hundred dollars bill
and then he'd put it in the box with a
blank piece of paper and slide them both in, and
the two of them would wait like this time yeah,
while it did its magic, and then he would turn
the dial and the original bill would come out with
another fresh hundred. And then you know, Victor heads to
(19:34):
the bank with the mark and they show the teller
this new bill and they get it authenticated. What was
really happening is that Victor had stocked the box with
like a few hundreds, yeah, And so he would sit
with the guy while they ran the machine a couple of.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Times, how about them Yankees?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And like inevitably the guy wants to buy the box, of.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Course a money printing box. So he I'm a sucker,
so he'd like, demuur it. First, I could never, and
then my mother gave me this box.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yes exactly. Then he's like, well all right, and he
would name like this huge sum. When the mark agrees,
he'd sell it to the guy and then be on
his way. And like sometimes he sold the boxer as
much as thirty grand. That's like half a mill.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
My god. Yeah, some of these suckers get these very
much money.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Meanwhile, the guy'd like he'd get a couple more bills
out of it, and then it would run.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Dry, and by that time it's four hours later.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So one time he pulled this on a Texas sheriff.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Oh wow, that's that's he's got a pair on him. Yeah,
maybe that will shoot you.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
He made a few thousand off of them.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Really.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
The sheriff tracked him down and caught up with him
in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
States away, they don't care.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, he confronts Victor, probably armed, but Lustig was so
smooth that he managed to turn the tables and convince
the sheriff that he just wasn't using He did it wrong.
Oh yeah, to use my not paying attention. So he's like,
you know what, I am so so sorry. Let me
give you a refund. I'm going to give you your money.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Back because you're so dumb.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And the sheriff is all, PA, He's like, thank you
so much. And then he finds out later we'll get
to that that the cash that he got was all counterfeit.
So yes, once he like worked the Romanian box as
much as he could, he shifted focus.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I hope that that cop got busted trying to pass
counterfeit bills.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
He did, and we'll get to that.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Nineteen twenty five, the US is in the grip of prohibition. Okay,
mobsters are making mad cash.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Oh yeah, it's good time for my people.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Who's the biggest mobster of all, mister Coon Capone. He
was twenty six years old. On the rise. Lustig arranged
a meeting with Capone at the Hawthorne Hotel in Cicero,
hometown to both Capone and Anthony Pelicano. So Lustig had
a proposal. All Capone had to do was invest fifty
thousand dollars. It's like eight hundred and seventy.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
K trying to rip off Capon for hunt.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay on and he's like, look, I will double your
money in sixty days or less. And like Capone, He's like,
I like the cut of your jim, you know, you
feel like an honest Here's here's fifty k.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
So Lustig he sat on that money for sixty.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Days, ran shaking his head, and then he took it
back to.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Capone and he told him the plan had fallen apart.
I can't make the investment. I'm returning your money and
I'm apologizing, and Capone's impressed.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Nobody does for honest.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So then Lustig kind of lets it slip that the
deal falling apart meant that he was ruined. He was
totally broke. So Capone so impressed. You're so honest, you
sacrificed yourself to shield me and protect my money. Here's
five grand. It's like eighty seven thousand dollars today, and
so he risks his life conning al Capone. But it
(22:40):
was like the easiest five k he ever.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Made, totally, just like he just melted them. He didn't
really con it totally.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
But he's so smooth he can convince anyone that he's.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Being so magnanimous. Huh, that's great milk his ego.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So December of nineteen twenty eight, Victor cozied up to
a businessman, Thomas Kerns, in Massachusetts, and then Kerns like
he invites Lustig over to his house to talk about
a potential investment. While he's there, Victor does something totally
out of character. He sneaks upstairs and he steals sixteen
thousand dollars from a desk drawer. What yeah, that's like
(23:12):
three hundred thousand dollars today. Can you imagine having that
kind of money lying around? I can, I know, so
I would like it would be amazing to keep imagining it.
So Kerns, of course, like he finds out, he calls
the cops. Now Lustig is officially on the police radar.
And it was a dumb move. It was a dumb move.
He'd always con he must have. But like you know,
(23:35):
you can, you can sneak off for anyone's away, or
they're ashamed, like they that's the thing. Yeah, most of
the time they're too embarrassed to admit the con. And
so this was his first burglary, big misstep. Nineteen thirty,
he drew on the inspiration of the Roumanian Box and
he went all in on counterfeiting. So he paired up
with two Nebraska boys, a chemist named Tom Shaw and
(23:58):
a pharmacist named Will Watts. Now, in some accounts they're
listed as chemist and pharmacist. Others he's like a pharmacy clerk.
They're both like. Watts definitely has mafia ties, like he's
in with that, and I think he had done all
sorts of chemical stuff for them. It helps in that
kind of situation. So they get this whole operation together, plates, paper, ink,
(24:21):
and the ink that they had replicated the red and
green threads in reality.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, So Watts and Shaw they engraved the plates, Lustig,
put together a crew of couriers. They had no idea
what they were carrying. They just knew they were carrying
these packages. It was a huge venture. The distribution system
put out over one hundred thousand dollars a month into circulation. Yeah,
their work made it all.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Over the United States, millions.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Of dollars in circulation. The cops started calling it Lustig
money when they'd stumble onto it. It messed with the
monetary system in the US, and it threatened to destabilize
international confidence in the US.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, like our Moody or credit rating and going down
totally said they were aware it was Lustig. Then if
they're calling it lustig money, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Later, well you'll see. So they printed mostly one hundred
dollars bills that they had other denomination. The hundreds are
really risky because that draws a lot of his now,
but even then it's even more much.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
O twenties and fives or yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
So the cash was so well made that even the
hundreds the bank tellers couldn't tell that they were holding
bad bills. A judge said that Lustig and his crew
were quote like some other government issuing money and rivalry
with the United States Treasury. It's just like overdoing it.
In nineteen thirty eight, William H. Moran, head of the
Secret Service, he established a task force, so they gathered
(25:43):
in his office. Spread Out on his desk were all
of these twenty dollars bills and they all had the
imprint of the Federal Reserve Bank in Cleveland, Ohio. So
all of these agents are studying the bills. They have
magnifying glasses, all these like special lights. They can't believe it.
The twenty dollars bills on the deer counterfeit done so
cleverly that they could only detect them with the lights
(26:04):
and the magnifying glasses. Each bill had been in circulation
for a while, okay, and had passed in and out
of banks like that. So the Secret Service agents they'd
start tracking these bills. The heaviest traffic was in Chicago,
and that led them to believe that the mob was involved.
So government investigators they checked all the engravers employed by
(26:25):
the Mint, and then they looked into the activities of
other engravers outside the Mint who like might be capable
of turning out like a perfect bill. So all of
these guys, all these engravers, they get a clean bill
of health. You know, they're not involved. Meanwhile, new five
ten and one hundred dollars counterfeits are appearing in each
series on a different Federal Reserve bank, so they're switching
(26:47):
up the Yeah. So the first hint that Lustig might
be involved came when that Texas sheriff he fooled with
the Rumanian box paid off with fake cash. He gets
picked up in New Orleans for passing bad Yeah, and
like the sheriff is arguing and they're like.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Red you know it.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
He gives them a full like description of listed. Oh yeah,
he still had to do a little time. What yeah
he got he got like busted busted for it.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Oh yeah, I expressed this to a Bank of America
when they gave me counterfeit bills. When I went to
the Bank of America, and I try to use one.
I went right back and I said, you guys gave
these to me, Like I'm like, I can be arrested
for what you did or like sorry. They wouldn't even
give me my money back. They're just like sorry, get
out of the bank.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
We had a we had like a fundraiser thing when
I was teaching, like the faculty all had to like
kick in for some Christmas thing and I was in
charge of it, and I was going through the bills
and a ten was like a lot smaller than the rest,
and it was totally someone gave me counterfeit cash faculty member.
So I like didn't know what to do. So I
called like the local cops and they sent out these
(27:49):
detectives and they took it, and like I was out ten.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Likely you call the cops. Yeah, well I don't want
to get well, I had special investigators. You guys got
to work together exactly solidarity.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So does time.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
The problem that like with finding Lustig is that he
was a master of disguise. Really, he had all these costumes, right,
sometimes he dressed.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Like a priest's a rabbi, you know, he was. People
don't question a man of the clos exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
He would dress as a bell hop. And the reason
that was helpful because then like he could just pretend
to carry luggage out for a guest and he's actually
making a run for it.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Totally. Yeah, So the FEDS they instruction painter also because
people never ask, no wonder why you're there.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, you put on one of those orange vests. You're
good to go. So the FEDS they start trailing this
man who had passed some of the fake bills. They
go to his house and they found out that he had,
like back in Prohibition, he'd been printing fake whiskey labels
for bootleggers. Oh, and so then they search his place
and they find the press that the money had been
printed on. Okay, and they found three hundred thousand dollars
(28:52):
in fake bills. If you're wondering, Zara, yes, I was
wondering six and a half million today bake bills small dominations,
so take it right. The printer told him that like,
I don't have the plates, I just have this machine.
I have to return the plates after each printing. He
said that he never met Lustig, and it was some
other dude who brought him the supplies the ink paper plates,
(29:15):
and so things went south for Lustig. Not because of
good detective work on the part of the Secret Service, Nope, Barren,
it was lust and a woman who closed the nut
on them. Yeah. So Lustig, he's having an affair. He's
having an affair with Tom Shaw's mistress, his partners.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
His chemist mistress, chemist buddies mistress.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
She's also considerably younger, the mistress. It wasn't Tom who
got upset, it was Lustig's girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
By a lot of parties involved in this.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh yeah, she lost it. She finds out that going
to lose, so she makes an anonymous call to the FEDS. Feds,
Billy may get him. She tells them everything where and
she you know, she's like and the coup de gras,
I can tell you where he is in New York
right now, right this minute. Yeah, So the FEDS they
have intel that Lustig had taken up with another gal
(30:09):
totally no, a third. Yeah, she's holed up in a
hotel in New York. So the agents they sit on
the hotel until they saw Lustig and his lady friend
coming and going, and then they taped the phone and
they heard him make an appointment to pick up a
suitcase at Broadway in forty seventh Street. Right Zarin, close
your eye, I want you to picture it. It's a
(30:31):
lovely Sunday evening, May tenth, nineteen thirty five. You are
Secret Service agent Peter A.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Rubano Pete.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
You made a name for yourself busting mafioso Ignazio, the
wolf loupo Oh. Yeah, you're a big Italian American and
you take no guph. So you've been tailing Victor Lustig
for months. You and your team are following Lustig as
he strolls down Broadway in the Upper West Side. He's
a stylish and well composed man, and you notice that
he has a new mustache, and alongside Branch you can
(31:01):
spot him a mile away. Still, even with all that
you've been studying his photograph, his mannerisms, all the little
details that make a person who they are, and in
this case it's a crook. Besides, there's no hiding that
big scar down the side of his face. So his
cars whiz by. You signal to one of your agents.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Down the road.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
He watches as Lustig strolls past, heading your way. Lustig
wears a posh double breasted dark overcoat with a velvet collar,
cutting a fine figure as always. You stand at a
bus stop reading a newspaper. Just as Lustig approaches, You
throw down the paper and grab him by that velvet collar,
hands in the air. You yell as all your fellow
agents surround you and the infamous con man. A car
(31:41):
honks its horn at the gathered crowd of lawmen. People
on Sunday evening strolls scoot around you. You slap handcuffs
on Lustig, and another agent grabs a suit case he
was carrying Victorious. You shove him in the back of
a squad car and head for the Federal building. You've
finally captured your white whale. Let's take a break. We
come back. We'll find out how the criminal justice system
(32:02):
treated Victor Listig and vice versa. Victor Lustig.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
LEO, my white whale.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Con man extraordinary, so he impressed the agents who interviewed him.
Victor stayed calm, confident the whole time. One of the
agents said, count, you're the smoothest con man that ever lived,
and Listig's reply, I wouldn't say that, after all, you've
conned me, ohe with great flourish. An agent brings the
(32:54):
suitcase into the interrogation room to open it. He's hoping
for stacks and stacks of fake cash and like maybe
the printing plates.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Oh okay, Nope.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
They open it up and all that's in there is
like a good portion of his immaculate wardrobe, like all.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
This expensive clothing all like soak sherets So.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Victor though, he's like, you know what, I will tell
you all about Tom Shawn William Watts, anything you want
to know. He sings like a bird all about their plan.
But he's like, I had nothing to do with it.
I just heard about it.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I don't even those dudes.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah. So an agent goes through his Chesterfield coat and
he finds a wallet and a key, and he wouldn't
tell them where the key came from, but they, you know,
searched it out and it went to a locker in
Times Square subway station. So he's like, I have no idea.
I have no idea where that key came from. So
the agents they go to the locker, They open it up,
and they found the counterfeit cash and the printing plates
(33:46):
that they thought would be in the luggage, fifty one
thousand dollars in cash that's like one point one million today,
all right, So they have him dead to rights. They
want answers. They also wanted to know if he was
involved in the shooting of Legs Diamond, whoa, because Leg's
Diamond was staying just down the hall from him in
a hotel the night he was shot. Okay, but he
didn't have anything to do with it.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Doesn't sound like he would move out of his crime
ouvra twice, right.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
But he had all these weird tentacle connections to the mob.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Sure, but becoming a hit man for them is a
that's quite a step less stretch.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So he gets charged with possession of the fake cash
and the plates, and his trial was scheduled for September second,
nineteen thirty five. Now they ship him off to the
federal detention headquarters in New York, and he's bragging, like,
you know what, no prison can hold me. And this
place was supposed to be inescapable. But if I'm telling
you that, you can probably guess that it was escapable.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
So the day before his trial, the Sunday before Labor Day,
September one, nineteen thirty five, he escaped. He cut the
bars in his cell and he made a rope out
of bed sheets.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
The classic like if you're trying to say that your
prison is like inescapable, you should be able to stop
somebody from cuttings and leaving the getting a rope out
of bed sheet, that's the first movie.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
So like out, he goes like swinging on the rope.
Writer Jeff mashe said in Smithsonian Magazine quote like an
urban Tarzan. So he's going down the building the way down,
but people are walking down the street. So he pulls
a handkerchief out of his pocket and pretends to be
washing the windows. Brilliant, Yeah, and like passers by stop.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Sheets.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
So then he slides all the way down the rope.
He like lands outside the prison walls. He takes a
bow for the people who are watching, and then he
runs his little legs down the road, scurry, scurry. So
when the guards get to his cell, they found a
note that he'd written. He quoted Victor Hugo's Limizeraba quote.
He allowed himself to be led in a promise, Jean
Valjean had his promise even to a convict, especially to
(35:49):
a convict, it may give the convict confidence and guide
him on the right path. Law was not made by
God and man can be wrong.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Wow. And on the other side, he was written in
French late.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
So now we've got Count Victor Liustig out on the loose,
a master of disguise and a smooth talker on the
run from the law. Lustig he stayed away from the Fuzz,
but they eventually caught up with On the night of Saturday,
September twenty eighth, nineteen thirty five, they busted him in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Pittsburgh, Yeah, the FBI.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
And Secret Service, they got a tip that he was there.
So they spotted Lustig jump into a car that had
been waiting for him, and then two agents give chase.
Chase only lasted nine blocks, but they were going super fast,
like yeah, and they're like neck and neck, like right
next to each other. And so the FEDS ram their
car into Lustigs and then the cars locked wheels. Oh no, yeah,
(36:40):
So then they have this huge crash of course, and
the Feds like jump out of their car. Gun's drawn.
Lustig steps out of his car and says, well, boys, here,
I am so smooth.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, he didn't have a gun. You know, he's never
a fight exactly exactly, and he can't run because they're
just in a car accident.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
He's all like, his pupils are tiny. So he gets
sent back to New York and goes before a judge
in November of nineteen thirty five, and by this time
he's like a little worse for wear. That sounds like, yeah,
he's looking bad. He pleads guilty and got sentenced to
twenty years. Five of those were for his escape from
the you know the j yeah, and then fifteen years
(37:18):
for counterfeiting. He's only forty six, he looks far older
in the pictures. So the courtroom was standing room only
as he calmly took his sentence. Nice He was seeking leniency, though,
so his lawyer pointed out that he had generally victimized
other criminals like quote, Chicago gangsters Arnold Rothstein, and other
Underworld leaders in New York and Boston.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
He also caned Arnold.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Apparently I couldn't find anything else about the Rothstein stuff
going through all the.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
SAR didn't make the papers. He had to tell his.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Lawyer exactly, so that he's like, ps, I got him.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I also got dut Sheltz. I got it exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So Watts was also sentenced that day, both he and
Lusta got one thousand dollars fines. Watts got ten years
at prison in Pennsylvania. Where did they send Lustig Alcatraz?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Nice I forgot. It's the thirties, of course.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
The alcatrazactly, so Alcatraz. Just as an aside, I'm working
on a butte of an episode about escapes from Alcatraz,
So stay tuned. Yeah, it'll be a while, but it'll
be worth it. So Lustig he goes to Alcatraz. Al
Capone had been sent there a year before. You mentioned
that he played the banjo.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yes, and the band the Alcatraz I guess, like at
the rock band totally, and they had like a standing
every Tuesday or whatever.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
So Lustig gets there and he's searched in a most
thorough manner as they do. And when they're done, they
hosed him down with ice cold seawater as was the
custom of the day.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Oh man got to be rough.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
So now he is prisoner number three hundred, three hundred.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
The numbers are so low, I know.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
So they paraded him naked as a jaybird down Broadway.
That's the term for that. Main Borda and the other
inmates are like hootin' and howling at them, and they're
clanking their metal cups on the bars.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
He is somewhat superficially humiliated. He asserts that he was
accused of everything in the category of crime, including the
burning of Chicago that was in his prison record.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
The burning of Chicago. He's like the cow kicked over.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
He's like, they're trying to get me on everything, even
the burning of Chicago. Apparently he just is like complaining
about this all the time.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Day, I just going around once again, Are they going
to charge me Larry's cow?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So they referred to him as Miller in all the paperwork.
That was one of his aliases. Oh yeah, he didn't
do too well in the punishing climate at Alcatraz. It's cold.
It is cold out there. So by December seventh, nineteen
forty six, eleven years into his twenty year sentence, Lustig
had made more than one thousand medical requests and filled
(39:57):
more than five hundred prescriptions, one thousand when one thousand
just as an aside. He was there for the entirety
of World War Two. Could you like the news coming in?
Speaker 3 (40:06):
It must have been wild, insane and you hear the
sirens and you see like maybe like the lights going across,
sweeping the sky.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Well, and like to be in the middle of the
San Francisco Bay, you're seeing all the planes go over.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
You're hearing planes all the time. Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
So the prison guards they all thought he was faking
it the sickness, of course, a malingerer. And they knew
he'd escaped before, so they thought this was just another ruise.
But this like one hundred doctor visits a year.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
It's yeah, a lot. I don't even know how you'd
be able to pull off, Like I got a new thing,
I mean, right, and so when you get bored at
number seventy eight nineteen.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Coming So, according to medical reports, he was quote inclined
to magnify physical complaints and constantly complaining of real and
imaginary ills.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
He's kind of a hypochondria.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah, but here's the thing. On the ninth of March
nineteen forty seven, he came down with pneumonia and he
got shipped out to the Medical Center for Federal in Springfield, Missouri,
and they let him out him so far well, doctors
took one look at him and they realized he was
not faking it, and it wasn't just pneumonia, he had
(41:11):
an aggressive brain tumor.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Oh god. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
So two days after he arrived he died, and his
death certificate list his occupation as apprentice salesman.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
So dance instruction.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
A few months after he died, his name was in
the papers, but not as a death notice. Other counterfeitters
had been nabbed, and it was the biggest bust since Lustig.
So that ring was rounded up on a tip from
a farmer who distrusted quote city slickers. Yes, the counterfeitters.
They printed six hundred thousand dollars in bogus money, and
(41:44):
agents followed the trail of the bills from Detroit to
Los Angeles, and so they arrested a bunch of guys
Joe Mociano alias Joe Much, Peter Klicus, Minas, Constantine Aratos,
Veto Dougostino, John Brennan, and George Cannacasa Canacas, Italians Greeks
(42:09):
Irish working together in harmony.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Finally, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
So the tip from the farmer came after Canacas bought
a turkey from this deplane, Illinois farmer a few days
before Thanksgiving. So the farmer said that he quote didn't
even watch me when I weighed the bird. I figured
there must be something wrong with anybody that trusting.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
So they spanded someone else's money. I don't trust it.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
I don't trust this. So he got the license number
from the car and he took the twenty dollars bill
that Cannacas gave him to the bank and the cashier
was like, that is counterfeit. That is some fake money.
So the farmer calls the Secret Service WO and then
the agents get that license number from him and they
trace the car to Kansas. They arrested him right before
Thanksgiving with two hundred dollars in bogus twenty dollars bills
(42:54):
in his pocket, and he admitted to passing between two
and three thousand dollars stoves. He ran a coffee shop,
and he printed counterfeit ten dollar bills in a vacant
store next door. He was picked up while delivering two
thousand dollars worth of fake cash to a quote passer
right and then another thirty thousand was found hidden in
his house and Brennan he got arrested next. He admitted
(43:19):
that he was the one who made the plates at
their hideout on Dougostino's farm. Near Schneider, Indiana. Ok So,
the Secret Service went there and they recovered the press,
the printer's ink, bond paper, all the accessories. Agents said
that Brennan admitted that the ring printed thirty thousand dollars
in five dollar bills, two hundred thousand dollars in twenties,
(43:39):
and four hundred thousand and tens.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Brennan's just singing on everything. He's like, I'll tell you
whatever you need to know.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
So I play it tuone, I got a song.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, click as he gets seized. Next so agents found
thirty thousand dollars in counterfeits hidden near the skylight of
an upstairs bedroom. Oka and Dougostino when he was arrested,
the agent said that he admitted to printing the fake
twenties in his space. It's like fine, so Ratos Brennan
klikas Dougostino. Yeah, they're arraigned and they plead innocent. The
(44:09):
arraignment was kept secret because they were waiting to arrest
Joe Moush oh okay, and so then they pick him up.
He pleads in got to get the moosh, yeah exactly.
The sale price, the Secret Service said was you could
pay eighteen dollars for one hundred dollars in bogus, fives
thirty dollars for one hundred dollars in counterfeit, tens and twenties.
So apparently the larger denominations were not such bad fakes,
(44:32):
but the fivers were bad. They were really hard to pass.
And the authorities all said that this was this huge score.
But then the papers are like, this is huge, but
he's no victor Listig, Like they just keep and they
think that he's all still stealing in Alcatraz because news
of his death didn't become public for two years. Why well,
it wasn't until his brother, his brother got pinched on
(44:53):
counterfeit charges in New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
He brought his brother into the family.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, and so he goes he goes to court for
and he tells the judge, you know, my brother passed away,
and gives the date. At the time of his death,
Lustig money was still in circulation.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Oh I bet.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah. So what's your ridic's takeaway?
Speaker 3 (45:12):
I got to get into counterfeiting, you do? It just
sounds like fun. It seems like you meet interesting people,
you have fun adventures.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, that's not bad. Eighteen dollars for one hundred and
bogus five five? Really bad? I pay thirty dollars for
one hundred counterfeit?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Would you?
Speaker 4 (45:27):
No?
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Oh, you would not know what's your REDICU was? Take away, Elizabeth,
don't see what I just did.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I don't know how. I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Oh yea okay, well anyway, hold on, hold on, wait
what I.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Think I feel some talkbacks coming on?
Speaker 5 (45:40):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (45:40):
Is that what that is? Oh? God? I love cheat.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Hi, Elizabeth and Zarah, and my name is Brandon.
Speaker 6 (45:54):
I was just listening to the show about riots and
it was thrilling to me because I also was at
that body Count and Metallica and Guns N' Roses show.
I participated in the throwing of dirt. I also was
struck by dirt and I had dirt put down my pants.
It was everything a fourteen year old could have asked for.
(46:19):
And my next consort was Cannibal Corpse.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
So whatever, Hey guys, this is Brandon.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
I just.
Speaker 6 (46:26):
Sent a message about the rioting thing, and I just
wanted to say thank you for your show. I work
out here in Pleasanton at the garbage company, and I
put tires on the garbage trucks and It's a miserable
sninky job and you guys in between. All the wrestling
podcasts are a bright spot in my otherwise smell even Thanks.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yes so good.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
That's us for today. You can find us online at
ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also at Ridiculous Crime on
both Twitter and Instagram. Email Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.
Leave us a talk back on the iHeart app reach
out Baby. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and
(47:13):
Zaren Burnett, produced and edited by Count Dave Cousten. Master
of Disguise. Disguise research is by Marissa twenty Bucks Gets
You a hundred, Brown and Roumanian box manufacturer Andrea Song
Sharpen Tear. The theme song is by plate engraver Thomas
Lee and ink mixer Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided
by Botany five hundred. Executive producers are Ben Secret Bolan
(47:36):
and Noel Service.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Brown Disquime Say It One More Times Crime.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more Podcasts
my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Zaren Elizabeth Listen.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Yeah, you know it's ridiculous. Oh my god. Do you
like German chocolate cakes? Yeah? Sure, right? Do you know
the secret of German chocolate cakes? Not like how to
bake a good one? But what the secret is? I'm
scared it's not German?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah, So turns out German chocolate cake was actually named
after an American named Samuel German. No. Yes, So in
nineteen fifty seven, this there was this recipe called Germans
German's Chocolate Cake, and it appeared in this the Dallas
Morning News as the recipe of the day, submitted by
missus George Clay. So we don't even know her real
name because she went by her husband's name, because it's
(00:37):
nineteen fifty seven. So this homemaker from Dallas, she submits
this recipe and it was from an eighteen fifty three
recipe of an American baker, Samuel German, who had made
this cake for you know, Baker's Chocolate Company, so owned
by General Foods. Well, they published this recipe and within
like it becomes a sensation across the country. Sales of
chocolate Baker's. Baker's choclate went up by seventy three percent,
(01:00):
and from that point on, we've had German chocolate cake,
and people then just drop the Germans because it didn't
sound as much fun as German chocolate cake, and fools
like me thought it was German. I'm over there asking Germans, oh,
when you guys go for a good German chocolate cake
and they look at me like I'm an idiot, which
they often do.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But whatever, coconut right now.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's all this, Yeah, the shavings and all that. Yeah,
I think it's good coca coconut and shavings on movie.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That's not very German.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
No, that was the thing. That's why I'm like, when
did you guys get all coco for coconuts?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
You know what, that's ridiculous, Hey, ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well done. Uh do you know what else is ridiculous?
Speaker 4 (01:30):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I do not. That's what I'm here for.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Conning al Capone. What this is ridiculous Crime A podcast
(01:57):
about absurd and outrageous capers. Heisen cons it's always ninety
nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous. I
know you heard that zaren you like to quote Biggie's
crack commandments?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I do, I do. It's good philosophy.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Let's let's clarify that we're talking about the late rap
superstar Notorious Big and his tune ten crack commandments.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yes, and not the wrestler Big E what we and
let me recount them for you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So rule number uno, never let no one know how
much dough you hold. So that's don't let anyone know
how much money you have on you. Number two, never
let them know your next move.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Don't you know bad boys move in silence and violence. Yes, yeah,
so that's self explanatory, dude, Real G's moving silence like Lasagna.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Exact.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
Number three. Never trust nobody. Yes, now we're going to
ignore the double negative. Why, so that makes it you
can trust everybody. Never trust nobody. Number four.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Never get high on your own supply.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So important.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That's incredible advice for all sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Even if your supply is just your own ego exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Number five. Never sell no crack where you rest at. Yes, yeah,
which I mean I abide by that.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And numbers So don't bring your business home.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That goddamn credit dead it it Yes, which don't sell
your wares on credit.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yes' front for nobody.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yes. Seven, keep your family in business completely separated. That's
always good.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I think Ben Franklin would agree with all of this.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Number eight, Never keep no weight on.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
You, yes, never someone else holds it for it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Again you know, so, don't don't have the drugs on
your person.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
These are the way they stay free.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Number nine. If you ain't getting bagged, stay there from police. Yes, so,
don't cooperate with law enforcement. Number ten A strong word
called consignment, so you know, meaning it's only for seasoned
drug dealers to use a system whereby the drugs are
shit to a dealer who pays only for what is
(04:02):
sold and who may return what is unsold.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Or it's an arrangement in which goods are left in
the possession of an authorized third party to sell.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yes. Basically you would only front to somebody who you
really trust. So like Pablo Basketbar, may can do consignment,
but you shouldn't as a local dealer, right.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And I'm just gonna admit I have no idea what
all that means. You know, you're very convinced, you know
who had crime commandments long before Biggie Smalls, Jesus, Victor Lustig.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Oh I was close.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, Noah Moses nd Nicodemus Adam okay, so Victor Lustig
he created the ten commandments for con men.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Oh right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Number one, be a patient listener. It is this, not
fast talking that gets a con man his coups, all right.
Number two, never look bored. Yes, that's good advice. Three,
wait for the other person to reveal any political opinions
and then agree with them.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yes, okay. Number ever express yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Number four. Let the other person reveal religious views, then
have the same ones once again.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Emulate your person you're talking about, right.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Next one, hint at sex talk, but don't follow it
up unless the other person shows a strong interest. Yes,
that's always good advice.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
We're all smart for conversation exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Never discuss illness unless some special concern is shown. And
we're just going with like this is how to you know,
be in public. Never pry into a person's personal circumstances.
They'll tell you all eventually. Again solid, never boast, Just
let your importance be quietly obvious.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I kind of live by these. These are solid.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Never be untidy, and lastly, never get drunk.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Damn. I was good for up till then I got
all ten?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So who is this professor of CON's?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Who is this professor of cons Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Count Victor Lustig?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Want to be Lustig?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Lustig? Sure, I'm just americanizing.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Here's the thing. I say things wrong all the time.
I mispronounce, I do bad accents. I'm not trying to
neither one of us are trying to do an effective
as No.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
But sometimes I do put the like when I'm going
to say a word, I'll put the emphasis on the
wrong sol.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Oh yeah, I do that all the time too. So
what I'm trying to say is that I don't care
if I say things wrong, nor should anyone else Anyway, Lustig, Lustig,
what have you?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Vi?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Vic?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
He wasn't a real count, and as many like we have,
all these con artists that we discussed, he liked to be,
you know, fake, being a member of aristocracy. But also
he had this air about him that people just called
him that. In his long career of criming, he never
held a gun.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I like it, I know, I really like that. Have
to force it, don't force the issue exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
His hobby collecting butterflies and pinning them in shadow boxes.
I like it, you know, pen and notunt me like
a butterfly. As the Despicable Morrissey would sing so many
double entendres. He was always kind of the Ladies smooth talker.
He was born in hostin a Bohemia ninety yeah, Bohemia,
land of my grandpa's people and con artists. He used
(07:10):
to tell people that his dad was the mayor of
his hometown. It's not true, it's not true. He later
admitted that his parents were quote the poorest peasant people. Okay,
which is you know, that's good, nothing wrong, But he
said he had to turn to crime just to survive.
Times were so tough. In twenty fifteen, a historian from
(07:30):
Hostine started looking for biographical information about his town's famous native.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Son, most prominent residents and yeah who.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
The problem is that the Nazis had burned a lot
of records, and so he was looking through what was left,
and it looked like there were records remaining that aligned
with the time that he was in town. There's absolutely
no mention of him in anything, school roles, electoral records, anything,
So whether he was telling the truth or not up
in the air.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Maybe he was a homeschooled or aristocrat.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It could be. But you know, here's here's what I say.
Who knows who cares?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah right, he said, I sort.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Of care, but like I don't. Anyway. As a kid,
he started out panhandling, and that led to pickpocketing, and
that led to burglary, which led to street hustling.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
It's a nice little step one, two, three.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
He mastered card tricks, according to True Detective magazine, quote palming,
slipping cards from the deck, dealing from the bottom, and
then by the time he reached adulthood, he could make
a deck of cards. Quote do everything but talk, so
I like you. By the time he was nineteen, he
made his way to Paris and that's where he got
into gambling. Yes, he learned a bunch of languages when
(08:42):
he was there. He wound up speaking six languages.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Oh, I'm so jealous. I know, right, I've always wanted
to speak six languages.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I can barely speak this one.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I'm trying to work my way into two.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Okay, what two English?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
And what?
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Well?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Why Spanish is basically you know California work Spanish, right, right,
but also my vocabularies. I went to school so I
can understand far more. It's much like a French. I
can read it because of my vocabulary, but I can't
really speak at the grammars still, like on the mode terrible. Anyway,
So I guess that's almost two languages. Would be if
you could buy my Spanish and my French.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
So anyway, this dude's six languages, so amazing. He learned
how to read people and how to manipulate situations. He
also played competitive level chess.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Oh yeah, he's a brain.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
He picked up a humdinger of a scar on his
face thanks to a dust up with a love rival.
Speaker 6 (09:28):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I thought it was gonna be like in a chess
match and one like buried or rook in something.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Well, let's say that happened. Yeah, he just got it,
like you know, he was fighting over something, Okay, so
she cut him. Yeah, so he got his first real
crime gig on Transatlantic.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Voyages oh steamship right.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
He especially liked to target the nouvau riche, so he'd
hop on a liner in one of the Atlantic ports
in France and then ship off to New York City.
He'd mentioned to the swells that he who was like
this musical producer looking for investors for his Broadway production.
There's no production, of course.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So things stopped for him in World War One because
Transatlantic liners, you know, you know, couldn't make it a
getting sunk a little problem, and he needed to find
a new place to con and what better choice than
these United States of America.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So rich, so ready to be picked.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So this was a booming time in the US for
cons It's the age of Charles Ponzi.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Oh yeah, this is we said, basically just after World
War One. So we're going into the Roaring twenties big
time for christ exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
And you know, we've had a number of criminals on
this podcast who cast about the States. At this time.
People were suckers for unidentifiable European accents.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Oh we still are.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Oh I know. So there were like all these smooth,
non violent, charming scoundrels.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm going to again quote True Detective Magazine that Lustig
was a man who quote society took by one hand
and the underworld by the other. A flesh and blood
Jekylin Hyde. Oh yeah, because he was he was messing
with like all the rich folks and with like the
mom in the Underworld.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
It's also kind of fun to picture him as a
kid and those are his parents and he's like swinging
from their hands as they're walking down the sidewalk. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Nineteen nineteen, he married a woman named Roberta Okay, and
she was from Kansas. Pretty old Kanson. This was one
of the many loves in his life. In nineteen twenty five,
he then heads back to Paris. He's like, Bertie, it's
been great, hanging tight. She's you know, he's gone.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I gotta go check on Hemingway.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah. So he's like, I gotta go to Paris and
it was there. While he's there, he learns that there
are problems with maintaining the Eiffel Tower and the thing
fallen apart. It really desperately needed a paint job.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
He needed some new ratchet on there. Rabbits.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I mean, that's the problem, rashets is that they call
him over there. So there was all this talk that
they were just going to tear it down.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
The Eiffel Tower.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, it was so busted up.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It wasn't it put up like eighteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, but it was only supposed to be sort of temporary.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
For this world.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, so you know, Victor's there, light bulb goes off
in his head. In this criminal brain of his. He
had someone print up stationary for him that had the
official French government seal on and he used that stationary
to write to some scrap metal dealers. Okay, and he said, hey, guys,
(12:21):
I'm a government official.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Love me.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Can I meet with you at the Hotel de Crient. Again,
I don't do accents. Why not though a super swanky hotel.
Please be discreet, he says, this is confidential, wink wink.
So at the hotel, he introduces himself as the Deputy
director General of the Ministry of Posts and Telegraphs.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I believe it, that sounds right.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So he tells the men this sorrowful tale about how
it was just costing way too much to maintain the
Chili Fell quote because of engineering faults, costly repairs and
political problems. I cannot just gus the tearing down of
the Eiffel Tower has become mandatory.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
How much and how hard it is to paint this thing,
and it's such a shame.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, so no one ever liked it as such, the
French government looking to sell it for scrap.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Beauty.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, it just doesn't fit in with the rest of
the city architecturally.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
We have the park.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
However, this is going to upset a lot of people
that we want to scrap this thing. They'll take their
anger to the streets, as is their wont So that's
why you need to be so secret about this. That's
why you can't tell anyone about this meeting. No one
tell no one about this. So Victor tells the group
that he's responsible for selecting the dealer who will receive
(13:40):
ownership of the structure. So it's just like kind of
an audition. This is seven thousand tons of metal. Yes,
this is a big job, big payday. He even rented
limos and like took the dealers on tours of the tower.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Wow right, I mean, that's just Gus's the show.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So as he tells this tale, he tried to figure
out who the most gullible of this group is. He's
like looking at him, like that guy is a mouth breather.
I don't know about him. So he sees this one guy,
Andrea Poisson. He's a social climber, Like he's new in
Paris and he wants to build up his business, and
he's just like glad handing everyone. So that's who Victor
sets up a meeting with Andre Fish Andre Fish, and
(14:19):
it was there like at this next meeting, he's like, Andrea,
I'm crooked. I am fully corrected. Are you into that?
Because I'm into that. I'll take a bribe in exchange
for getting you the contract, but you know you got
to juice me. So Andre hands over about seventy thousand
francs and it's just pleased his punch with his steel.
(14:42):
He's like, hey, the contract's mine. Victor is like, may
he goes to Austria. He's like, I'm out of here.
So he's in the wind. He got away with the scam.
Andre too ashamed to admit like how gullible he was,
and so Victor's watching like is there any news in this?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Nothing?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
So he's like, you know what, I'm going to do
it again.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I'm going back.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
He goes back to Paris, so he set up everything
as he had before, the stationery, the hotel, and this
time he takes another like selected group of.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
More scrap dealers. How many scrap dealers?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Place is lousy with scrap dealers every street corner, so
like one of them. Oh, he gets a little uneasy
in this meeting. He's like, this just doesn't add up, Like,
why aren't we meeting in government offices? Yeah, so he's like,
you know what, I'm going to the cops. I don't
trust this squeals on on Victor. Doesn't matter. He's already
(15:38):
long gone to the States before the fuzz could catch him,
because he's like I think, I think.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So he gets back to the States and he continues
these con man ways with even more inventive means. Nineteen sixteen,
he like he created his own church on the Manhattan waterfront. What, yeah,
this is this like small mission? He said. The service
would quote swell all hearts and souls with joy.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well, eventually all scoundrels will find their way to the churche.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
He copied a Polish Catholic priest speech word for word
and then ad libs some bits.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Okay, but like it was the general thing, and a
couple of connections.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
The flock blown away. They're like this is so.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Moving, oratory, genius, so moving.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I'm going to fork over collectively ninety dollars. That's like
twenty five hundred dollars today in the offering.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
From a waterfront church that's a lot of mo and
this wasn't.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
A long con. This was just he got the cash
and disappeared.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Sus.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, exactly exactly. Then he set up a fake off
track betting shop and so he would pose as like
this displaced European aristocrat, Count von Kessler, and then he'd
trick a rich guy into going with him to like
place bets this sting.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Inside the fake betting shop, he had actors playing employees
and it looked completely legit. And then you know, Victor
in the fat they'd like listen to the broadcast of
the race through the shop speakers, except it wasn't the race,
one of his guys in the back room calling the
fake race, and then they'd soak the guy and then
move on.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
This is exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Exactly is inspiration. So let's take a break. When we
come back, I'm going to share with you more antics
of Victor Lustig. Welcome Victor if you're not Count Lustig.
(17:48):
In his life, he actually had like scores of aliases.
He used all these sorts of fake names.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Do you have any good ones?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
No?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
His later so his most ingenious scam was the room.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Manian Box, the Romanian box.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
The Roumanian box was a pretty good sized wooden box.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
And you're not pronouncing Romanian with a slow use, are you.
Okayian box.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So there's this big box, well kind of like I
don't know, I've seen some of the things said that
it was a small box. Some said it was the
size of a steamer trunk.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Oh, a lot of questions.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
He made more than one. Okay, so I think there
was like whatever box was.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Handy, like this is the box I got right now?
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
So he would put like all these dials on the
outside and had rollers inside.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And he said that the box was able to duplicate
cash using radium. What I don't know?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Wait wait, wait, money could be duplicated using a radioactive
material because we all know money, you know, it's this new,
brand new thing. Yeah, people are like X raying your bones,
which like blows people's minds, like you can see through
my hands exactly. How would that make money?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Just trust the box?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Okay, trust the box.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
So all you had to do was insert a bill
into an entry slot okay, and then he had to
wait six hours while it creates the coffee. The coffee
would come out this exit slot.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
So this is like a mission impossible face mask machine,
but some money go in there, take a little picture
and run it through.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So he'd ask the mark for a hundred dollars bill
and then he'd put it in the box with a
blank piece of paper and slide them both in, and
the two of them would wait like this time yeah,
while it did its magic, and then he would turn
the dial and the original bill would come out with
another fresh hundred. And then you know, Victor heads to
(19:34):
the bank with the mark and they show the teller
this new bill and they get it authenticated. What was
really happening is that Victor had stocked the box with
like a few hundreds, yeah, And so he would sit
with the guy while they ran the machine a couple of.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Times, how about them Yankees?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And like inevitably the guy wants to buy the box, of.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Course a money printing box. So he I'm a sucker,
so he'd like, demuur it. First, I could never, and
then my mother gave me this box.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yes exactly. Then he's like, well all right, and he
would name like this huge sum. When the mark agrees,
he'd sell it to the guy and then be on
his way. And like sometimes he sold the boxer as
much as thirty grand. That's like half a mill.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
My god. Yeah, some of these suckers get these very
much money.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Meanwhile, the guy'd like he'd get a couple more bills
out of it, and then it would run.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Dry, and by that time it's four hours later.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So one time he pulled this on a Texas sheriff.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Oh wow, that's that's he's got a pair on him. Yeah,
maybe that will shoot you.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
He made a few thousand off of them.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Really.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
The sheriff tracked him down and caught up with him
in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
States away, they don't care.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, he confronts Victor, probably armed, but Lustig was so
smooth that he managed to turn the tables and convince
the sheriff that he just wasn't using He did it wrong.
Oh yeah, to use my not paying attention. So he's like,
you know what, I am so so sorry. Let me
give you a refund. I'm going to give you your money.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Back because you're so dumb.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And the sheriff is all, PA, He's like, thank you
so much. And then he finds out later we'll get
to that that the cash that he got was all counterfeit.
So yes, once he like worked the Romanian box as
much as he could, he shifted focus.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I hope that that cop got busted trying to pass
counterfeit bills.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
He did, and we'll get to that.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Nineteen twenty five, the US is in the grip of prohibition. Okay,
mobsters are making mad cash.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Oh yeah, it's good time for my people.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Who's the biggest mobster of all, mister Coon Capone. He
was twenty six years old. On the rise. Lustig arranged
a meeting with Capone at the Hawthorne Hotel in Cicero,
hometown to both Capone and Anthony Pelicano. So Lustig had
a proposal. All Capone had to do was invest fifty
thousand dollars. It's like eight hundred and seventy.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
K trying to rip off Capon for hunt.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay on and he's like, look, I will double your
money in sixty days or less. And like Capone, He's like,
I like the cut of your jim, you know, you
feel like an honest Here's here's fifty k.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
So Lustig he sat on that money for sixty.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Days, ran shaking his head, and then he took it
back to.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Capone and he told him the plan had fallen apart.
I can't make the investment. I'm returning your money and
I'm apologizing, and Capone's impressed.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Nobody does for honest.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So then Lustig kind of lets it slip that the
deal falling apart meant that he was ruined. He was
totally broke. So Capone so impressed. You're so honest, you
sacrificed yourself to shield me and protect my money. Here's
five grand. It's like eighty seven thousand dollars today, and
so he risks his life conning al Capone. But it
(22:40):
was like the easiest five k he ever.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Made, totally, just like he just melted them. He didn't
really con it totally.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
But he's so smooth he can convince anyone that he's.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Being so magnanimous. Huh, that's great milk his ego.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So December of nineteen twenty eight, Victor cozied up to
a businessman, Thomas Kerns, in Massachusetts, and then Kerns like
he invites Lustig over to his house to talk about
a potential investment. While he's there, Victor does something totally
out of character. He sneaks upstairs and he steals sixteen
thousand dollars from a desk drawer. What yeah, that's like
(23:12):
three hundred thousand dollars today. Can you imagine having that
kind of money lying around? I can, I know, so
I would like it would be amazing to keep imagining it.
So Kerns, of course, like he finds out, he calls
the cops. Now Lustig is officially on the police radar.
And it was a dumb move. It was a dumb move.
He'd always con he must have. But like you know,
(23:35):
you can, you can sneak off for anyone's away, or
they're ashamed, like they that's the thing. Yeah, most of
the time they're too embarrassed to admit the con. And
so this was his first burglary, big misstep. Nineteen thirty,
he drew on the inspiration of the Roumanian Box and
he went all in on counterfeiting. So he paired up
with two Nebraska boys, a chemist named Tom Shaw and
(23:58):
a pharmacist named Will Watts. Now, in some accounts they're
listed as chemist and pharmacist. Others he's like a pharmacy clerk.
They're both like. Watts definitely has mafia ties, like he's
in with that, and I think he had done all
sorts of chemical stuff for them. It helps in that
kind of situation. So they get this whole operation together, plates, paper, ink,
(24:21):
and the ink that they had replicated the red and
green threads in reality.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, So Watts and Shaw they engraved the plates, Lustig,
put together a crew of couriers. They had no idea
what they were carrying. They just knew they were carrying
these packages. It was a huge venture. The distribution system
put out over one hundred thousand dollars a month into circulation. Yeah,
their work made it all.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Over the United States, millions.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Of dollars in circulation. The cops started calling it Lustig
money when they'd stumble onto it. It messed with the
monetary system in the US, and it threatened to destabilize
international confidence in the US.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, like our Moody or credit rating and going down
totally said they were aware it was Lustig. Then if
they're calling it lustig money, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Later, well you'll see. So they printed mostly one hundred
dollars bills that they had other denomination. The hundreds are
really risky because that draws a lot of his now,
but even then it's even more much.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
O twenties and fives or yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
So the cash was so well made that even the
hundreds the bank tellers couldn't tell that they were holding
bad bills. A judge said that Lustig and his crew
were quote like some other government issuing money and rivalry
with the United States Treasury. It's just like overdoing it.
In nineteen thirty eight, William H. Moran, head of the
Secret Service, he established a task force, so they gathered
(25:43):
in his office. Spread Out on his desk were all
of these twenty dollars bills and they all had the
imprint of the Federal Reserve Bank in Cleveland, Ohio. So
all of these agents are studying the bills. They have
magnifying glasses, all these like special lights. They can't believe it.
The twenty dollars bills on the deer counterfeit done so
cleverly that they could only detect them with the lights
(26:04):
and the magnifying glasses. Each bill had been in circulation
for a while, okay, and had passed in and out
of banks like that. So the Secret Service agents they'd
start tracking these bills. The heaviest traffic was in Chicago,
and that led them to believe that the mob was involved.
So government investigators they checked all the engravers employed by
(26:25):
the Mint, and then they looked into the activities of
other engravers outside the Mint who like might be capable
of turning out like a perfect bill. So all of
these guys, all these engravers, they get a clean bill
of health. You know, they're not involved. Meanwhile, new five
ten and one hundred dollars counterfeits are appearing in each
series on a different Federal Reserve bank, so they're switching
(26:47):
up the Yeah. So the first hint that Lustig might
be involved came when that Texas sheriff he fooled with
the Rumanian box paid off with fake cash. He gets
picked up in New Orleans for passing bad Yeah, and
like the sheriff is arguing and they're like.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Red you know it.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
He gives them a full like description of listed. Oh yeah,
he still had to do a little time. What yeah
he got he got like busted busted for it.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Oh yeah, I expressed this to a Bank of America
when they gave me counterfeit bills. When I went to
the Bank of America, and I try to use one.
I went right back and I said, you guys gave
these to me, Like I'm like, I can be arrested
for what you did or like sorry. They wouldn't even
give me my money back. They're just like sorry, get
out of the bank.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
We had a we had like a fundraiser thing when
I was teaching, like the faculty all had to like
kick in for some Christmas thing and I was in
charge of it, and I was going through the bills
and a ten was like a lot smaller than the rest,
and it was totally someone gave me counterfeit cash faculty member.
So I like didn't know what to do. So I
called like the local cops and they sent out these
(27:49):
detectives and they took it, and like I was out ten.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Likely you call the cops. Yeah, well I don't want
to get well, I had special investigators. You guys got
to work together exactly solidarity.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So does time.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
The problem that like with finding Lustig is that he
was a master of disguise. Really, he had all these costumes, right,
sometimes he dressed.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Like a priest's a rabbi, you know, he was. People
don't question a man of the clos exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
He would dress as a bell hop. And the reason
that was helpful because then like he could just pretend
to carry luggage out for a guest and he's actually
making a run for it.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Totally. Yeah, So the FEDS they instruction painter also because
people never ask, no wonder why you're there.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, you put on one of those orange vests. You're
good to go. So the FEDS they start trailing this
man who had passed some of the fake bills. They
go to his house and they found out that he had,
like back in Prohibition, he'd been printing fake whiskey labels
for bootleggers. Oh, and so then they search his place
and they find the press that the money had been
printed on. Okay, and they found three hundred thousand dollars
(28:52):
in fake bills. If you're wondering, Zara, yes, I was
wondering six and a half million today bake bills small dominations,
so take it right. The printer told him that like,
I don't have the plates, I just have this machine.
I have to return the plates after each printing. He
said that he never met Lustig, and it was some
other dude who brought him the supplies the ink paper plates,
(29:15):
and so things went south for Lustig. Not because of
good detective work on the part of the Secret Service, Nope, Barren,
it was lust and a woman who closed the nut
on them. Yeah. So Lustig, he's having an affair. He's
having an affair with Tom Shaw's mistress, his partners.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
His chemist mistress, chemist buddies mistress.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
She's also considerably younger, the mistress. It wasn't Tom who
got upset, it was Lustig's girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
By a lot of parties involved in this.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh yeah, she lost it. She finds out that going
to lose, so she makes an anonymous call to the FEDS. Feds,
Billy may get him. She tells them everything where and
she you know, she's like and the coup de gras,
I can tell you where he is in New York
right now, right this minute. Yeah, So the FEDS they
have intel that Lustig had taken up with another gal
(30:09):
totally no, a third. Yeah, she's holed up in a
hotel in New York. So the agents they sit on
the hotel until they saw Lustig and his lady friend
coming and going, and then they taped the phone and
they heard him make an appointment to pick up a
suitcase at Broadway in forty seventh Street. Right Zarin, close
your eye, I want you to picture it. It's a
(30:31):
lovely Sunday evening, May tenth, nineteen thirty five. You are
Secret Service agent Peter A.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Rubano Pete.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
You made a name for yourself busting mafioso Ignazio, the
wolf loupo Oh. Yeah, you're a big Italian American and
you take no guph. So you've been tailing Victor Lustig
for months. You and your team are following Lustig as
he strolls down Broadway in the Upper West Side. He's
a stylish and well composed man, and you notice that
he has a new mustache, and alongside Branch you can
(31:01):
spot him a mile away. Still, even with all that
you've been studying his photograph, his mannerisms, all the little
details that make a person who they are, and in
this case it's a crook. Besides, there's no hiding that
big scar down the side of his face. So his
cars whiz by. You signal to one of your agents.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Down the road.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
He watches as Lustig strolls past, heading your way. Lustig
wears a posh double breasted dark overcoat with a velvet collar,
cutting a fine figure as always. You stand at a
bus stop reading a newspaper. Just as Lustig approaches, You
throw down the paper and grab him by that velvet collar,
hands in the air. You yell as all your fellow
agents surround you and the infamous con man. A car
(31:41):
honks its horn at the gathered crowd of lawmen. People
on Sunday evening strolls scoot around you. You slap handcuffs
on Lustig, and another agent grabs a suit case he
was carrying Victorious. You shove him in the back of
a squad car and head for the Federal building. You've
finally captured your white whale. Let's take a break. We
come back. We'll find out how the criminal justice system
(32:02):
treated Victor Listig and vice versa. Victor Lustig.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
LEO, my white whale.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Con man extraordinary, so he impressed the agents who interviewed him.
Victor stayed calm, confident the whole time. One of the
agents said, count, you're the smoothest con man that ever lived,
and Listig's reply, I wouldn't say that, after all, you've
conned me, ohe with great flourish. An agent brings the
(32:54):
suitcase into the interrogation room to open it. He's hoping
for stacks and stacks of fake cash and like maybe
the printing plates.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Oh okay, Nope.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
They open it up and all that's in there is
like a good portion of his immaculate wardrobe, like all.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
This expensive clothing all like soak sherets So.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Victor though, he's like, you know what, I will tell
you all about Tom Shawn William Watts, anything you want
to know. He sings like a bird all about their plan.
But he's like, I had nothing to do with it.
I just heard about it.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I don't even those dudes.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah. So an agent goes through his Chesterfield coat and
he finds a wallet and a key, and he wouldn't
tell them where the key came from, but they, you know,
searched it out and it went to a locker in
Times Square subway station. So he's like, I have no idea.
I have no idea where that key came from. So
the agents they go to the locker, They open it up,
and they found the counterfeit cash and the printing plates
(33:46):
that they thought would be in the luggage, fifty one
thousand dollars in cash that's like one point one million today,
all right, So they have him dead to rights. They
want answers. They also wanted to know if he was
involved in the shooting of Legs Diamond, whoa, because Leg's
Diamond was staying just down the hall from him in
a hotel the night he was shot. Okay, but he
didn't have anything to do with it.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Doesn't sound like he would move out of his crime
ouvra twice, right.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
But he had all these weird tentacle connections to the mob.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Sure, but becoming a hit man for them is a
that's quite a step less stretch.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So he gets charged with possession of the fake cash
and the plates, and his trial was scheduled for September second,
nineteen thirty five. Now they ship him off to the
federal detention headquarters in New York, and he's bragging, like,
you know what, no prison can hold me. And this
place was supposed to be inescapable. But if I'm telling
you that, you can probably guess that it was escapable.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
So the day before his trial, the Sunday before Labor Day,
September one, nineteen thirty five, he escaped. He cut the
bars in his cell and he made a rope out
of bed sheets.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
The classic like if you're trying to say that your
prison is like inescapable, you should be able to stop
somebody from cuttings and leaving the getting a rope out
of bed sheet, that's the first movie.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
So like out, he goes like swinging on the rope.
Writer Jeff mashe said in Smithsonian Magazine quote like an
urban Tarzan. So he's going down the building the way down,
but people are walking down the street. So he pulls
a handkerchief out of his pocket and pretends to be
washing the windows. Brilliant, Yeah, and like passers by stop.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Sheets.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
So then he slides all the way down the rope.
He like lands outside the prison walls. He takes a
bow for the people who are watching, and then he
runs his little legs down the road, scurry, scurry. So
when the guards get to his cell, they found a
note that he'd written. He quoted Victor Hugo's Limizeraba quote.
He allowed himself to be led in a promise, Jean
Valjean had his promise even to a convict, especially to
(35:49):
a convict, it may give the convict confidence and guide
him on the right path. Law was not made by
God and man can be wrong.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Wow. And on the other side, he was written in
French late.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
So now we've got Count Victor Liustig out on the loose,
a master of disguise and a smooth talker on the
run from the law. Lustig he stayed away from the Fuzz,
but they eventually caught up with On the night of Saturday,
September twenty eighth, nineteen thirty five, they busted him in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Pittsburgh, Yeah, the FBI.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
And Secret Service, they got a tip that he was there.
So they spotted Lustig jump into a car that had
been waiting for him, and then two agents give chase.
Chase only lasted nine blocks, but they were going super fast,
like yeah, and they're like neck and neck, like right
next to each other. And so the FEDS ram their
car into Lustigs and then the cars locked wheels. Oh no, yeah,
(36:40):
So then they have this huge crash of course, and
the Feds like jump out of their car. Gun's drawn.
Lustig steps out of his car and says, well, boys, here,
I am so smooth.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, he didn't have a gun. You know, he's never
a fight exactly exactly, and he can't run because they're
just in a car accident.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
He's all like, his pupils are tiny. So he gets
sent back to New York and goes before a judge
in November of nineteen thirty five, and by this time
he's like a little worse for wear. That sounds like, yeah,
he's looking bad. He pleads guilty and got sentenced to
twenty years. Five of those were for his escape from
the you know the j yeah, and then fifteen years
(37:18):
for counterfeiting. He's only forty six, he looks far older
in the pictures. So the courtroom was standing room only
as he calmly took his sentence. Nice He was seeking leniency, though,
so his lawyer pointed out that he had generally victimized
other criminals like quote, Chicago gangsters Arnold Rothstein, and other
Underworld leaders in New York and Boston.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
He also caned Arnold.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Apparently I couldn't find anything else about the Rothstein stuff
going through all the.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
SAR didn't make the papers. He had to tell his.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Lawyer exactly, so that he's like, ps, I got him.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I also got dut Sheltz. I got it exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So Watts was also sentenced that day, both he and
Lusta got one thousand dollars fines. Watts got ten years
at prison in Pennsylvania. Where did they send Lustig Alcatraz?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Nice I forgot. It's the thirties, of course.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
The alcatrazactly, so Alcatraz. Just as an aside, I'm working
on a butte of an episode about escapes from Alcatraz,
So stay tuned. Yeah, it'll be a while, but it'll
be worth it. So Lustig he goes to Alcatraz. Al
Capone had been sent there a year before. You mentioned
that he played the banjo.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yes, and the band the Alcatraz I guess, like at
the rock band totally, and they had like a standing
every Tuesday or whatever.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
So Lustig gets there and he's searched in a most
thorough manner as they do. And when they're done, they
hosed him down with ice cold seawater as was the
custom of the day.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Oh man got to be rough.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
So now he is prisoner number three hundred, three hundred.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
The numbers are so low, I know.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
So they paraded him naked as a jaybird down Broadway.
That's the term for that. Main Borda and the other
inmates are like hootin' and howling at them, and they're
clanking their metal cups on the bars.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
He is somewhat superficially humiliated. He asserts that he was
accused of everything in the category of crime, including the
burning of Chicago that was in his prison record.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
The burning of Chicago. He's like the cow kicked over.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
He's like, they're trying to get me on everything, even
the burning of Chicago. Apparently he just is like complaining
about this all the time.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Day, I just going around once again, Are they going
to charge me Larry's cow?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So they referred to him as Miller in all the paperwork.
That was one of his aliases. Oh yeah, he didn't
do too well in the punishing climate at Alcatraz. It's cold.
It is cold out there. So by December seventh, nineteen
forty six, eleven years into his twenty year sentence, Lustig
had made more than one thousand medical requests and filled
(39:57):
more than five hundred prescriptions, one thousand when one thousand
just as an aside. He was there for the entirety
of World War Two. Could you like the news coming in?
Speaker 3 (40:06):
It must have been wild, insane and you hear the
sirens and you see like maybe like the lights going across,
sweeping the sky.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Well, and like to be in the middle of the
San Francisco Bay, you're seeing all the planes go over.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
You're hearing planes all the time. Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
So the prison guards they all thought he was faking
it the sickness, of course, a malingerer. And they knew
he'd escaped before, so they thought this was just another ruise.
But this like one hundred doctor visits a year.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
It's yeah, a lot. I don't even know how you'd
be able to pull off, Like I got a new thing,
I mean, right, and so when you get bored at
number seventy eight nineteen.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Coming So, according to medical reports, he was quote inclined
to magnify physical complaints and constantly complaining of real and
imaginary ills.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
He's kind of a hypochondria.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah, but here's the thing. On the ninth of March
nineteen forty seven, he came down with pneumonia and he
got shipped out to the Medical Center for Federal in Springfield, Missouri,
and they let him out him so far well, doctors
took one look at him and they realized he was
not faking it, and it wasn't just pneumonia, he had
(41:11):
an aggressive brain tumor.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Oh god. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
So two days after he arrived he died, and his
death certificate list his occupation as apprentice salesman.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
So dance instruction.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
A few months after he died, his name was in
the papers, but not as a death notice. Other counterfeitters
had been nabbed, and it was the biggest bust since Lustig.
So that ring was rounded up on a tip from
a farmer who distrusted quote city slickers. Yes, the counterfeitters.
They printed six hundred thousand dollars in bogus money, and
(41:44):
agents followed the trail of the bills from Detroit to
Los Angeles, and so they arrested a bunch of guys
Joe Mociano alias Joe Much, Peter Klicus, Minas, Constantine Aratos,
Veto Dougostino, John Brennan, and George Cannacasa Canacas, Italians Greeks
(42:09):
Irish working together in harmony.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Finally, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
So the tip from the farmer came after Canacas bought
a turkey from this deplane, Illinois farmer a few days
before Thanksgiving. So the farmer said that he quote didn't
even watch me when I weighed the bird. I figured
there must be something wrong with anybody that trusting.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
So they spanded someone else's money. I don't trust it.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
I don't trust this. So he got the license number
from the car and he took the twenty dollars bill
that Cannacas gave him to the bank and the cashier
was like, that is counterfeit. That is some fake money.
So the farmer calls the Secret Service WO and then
the agents get that license number from him and they
trace the car to Kansas. They arrested him right before
Thanksgiving with two hundred dollars in bogus twenty dollars bills
(42:54):
in his pocket, and he admitted to passing between two
and three thousand dollars stoves. He ran a coffee shop,
and he printed counterfeit ten dollar bills in a vacant
store next door. He was picked up while delivering two
thousand dollars worth of fake cash to a quote passer
right and then another thirty thousand was found hidden in
his house and Brennan he got arrested next. He admitted
(43:19):
that he was the one who made the plates at
their hideout on Dougostino's farm. Near Schneider, Indiana. Ok So,
the Secret Service went there and they recovered the press,
the printer's ink, bond paper, all the accessories. Agents said
that Brennan admitted that the ring printed thirty thousand dollars
in five dollar bills, two hundred thousand dollars in twenties,
(43:39):
and four hundred thousand and tens.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Brennan's just singing on everything. He's like, I'll tell you
whatever you need to know.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
So I play it tuone, I got a song.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, click as he gets seized. Next so agents found
thirty thousand dollars in counterfeits hidden near the skylight of
an upstairs bedroom. Oka and Dougostino when he was arrested,
the agent said that he admitted to printing the fake
twenties in his space. It's like fine, so Ratos Brennan
klikas Dougostino. Yeah, they're arraigned and they plead innocent. The
(44:09):
arraignment was kept secret because they were waiting to arrest
Joe Moush oh okay, and so then they pick him up.
He pleads in got to get the moosh, yeah exactly.
The sale price, the Secret Service said was you could
pay eighteen dollars for one hundred dollars in bogus, fives
thirty dollars for one hundred dollars in counterfeit, tens and twenties.
So apparently the larger denominations were not such bad fakes,
(44:32):
but the fivers were bad. They were really hard to pass.
And the authorities all said that this was this huge score.
But then the papers are like, this is huge, but
he's no victor Listig, Like they just keep and they
think that he's all still stealing in Alcatraz because news
of his death didn't become public for two years. Why well,
it wasn't until his brother, his brother got pinched on
(44:53):
counterfeit charges in New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
He brought his brother into the family.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, and so he goes he goes to court for
and he tells the judge, you know, my brother passed away,
and gives the date. At the time of his death,
Lustig money was still in circulation.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Oh I bet.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah. So what's your ridic's takeaway?
Speaker 3 (45:12):
I got to get into counterfeiting, you do? It just
sounds like fun. It seems like you meet interesting people,
you have fun adventures.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, that's not bad. Eighteen dollars for one hundred and
bogus five five? Really bad? I pay thirty dollars for
one hundred counterfeit?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Would you?
Speaker 4 (45:27):
No?
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Oh, you would not know what's your REDICU was? Take away, Elizabeth,
don't see what I just did.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I don't know how. I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Oh yea okay, well anyway, hold on, hold on, wait
what I.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Think I feel some talkbacks coming on?
Speaker 5 (45:40):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (45:40):
Is that what that is? Oh? God? I love cheat.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Hi, Elizabeth and Zarah, and my name is Brandon.
Speaker 6 (45:54):
I was just listening to the show about riots and
it was thrilling to me because I also was at
that body Count and Metallica and Guns N' Roses show.
I participated in the throwing of dirt. I also was
struck by dirt and I had dirt put down my pants.
It was everything a fourteen year old could have asked for.
(46:19):
And my next consort was Cannibal Corpse.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
So whatever, Hey guys, this is Brandon.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
I just.
Speaker 6 (46:26):
Sent a message about the rioting thing, and I just
wanted to say thank you for your show. I work
out here in Pleasanton at the garbage company, and I
put tires on the garbage trucks and It's a miserable
sninky job and you guys in between. All the wrestling
podcasts are a bright spot in my otherwise smell even Thanks.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yes so good.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
That's us for today. You can find us online at
ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also at Ridiculous Crime on
both Twitter and Instagram. Email Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.
Leave us a talk back on the iHeart app reach
out Baby. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and
(47:13):
Zaren Burnett, produced and edited by Count Dave Cousten. Master
of Disguise. Disguise research is by Marissa twenty Bucks Gets
You a hundred, Brown and Roumanian box manufacturer Andrea Song
Sharpen Tear. The theme song is by plate engraver Thomas
Lee and ink mixer Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided
by Botany five hundred. Executive producers are Ben Secret Bolan
(47:36):
and Noel Service.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Brown Disquime Say It One More Times Crime.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more Podcasts
my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Zaron Burnett
Elizabeth Dutton
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