Undercover Cops: I'm Busted? You're Busted! There Are No Rules For Us!

What are the rules for undercover cops? Well, as we learn from stories about cops shooting cops, an activist who falls in love with an undercover cop, a headless Care Bear with an undercover cop inside who busts a drug queen, and the two precincts of undercover cops who brawled... there are none! This week, it's mayhem and chaos with undercover cops! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Elizabeth Dutton. Oh hey,
what's up. It's me your guy Burnett. Yes, I got
a question for you while you're answering you it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
I do what? Uh you know? Like we like a
good piece accord? Right?

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Oh? You kidding me?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
You make a pact to work together.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm big on the packs.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, and so think about who? What two forces do
you wish would just agree in a non political, non geopoliticals.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
In a non geopolitical sense. Ah, so, like what is
the Biggie and Tupac that I'd like them to come together?
The East and the West. If I could have stopped that,
I'd probably say Adidas in uh no, that's yours. Maybe
I don't know. Chicago White Sox and Chicago Cubs. I

(00:55):
wish the city could come together and love them both.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Let me tell you what your answers should have been.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Please?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Okay, So I look like I gave the best answer.
You're a big hot dog guy, right, Oh you.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Love a good hot dog and a big hot dog.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
You love a big hot dog. Okay, and you Actually
the reason I bring this up is that we were
here at work at the at h Q while back,
and you were lamenting the fact that you went to
the store and you bought some hot dogs and it
did not match in number with.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh yeah, Now I was doing like the old eighties
stand up Canadian bit about they got a right here
and they.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Got six over here, and the cord has been.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Met, get out of town.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Hines has got together and they took like in one
hand Wonder and the other hand the Oscar Meyer and
they joined them. So now they're doing ten buns, ten wieners.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Ten dogs, ten buns.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
We got to learn it to this in an email
by krly Stutz that was forwarded over.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
To me, this is amazing response is so much better
than your typical mashups.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
And so they said that this is what their website
Heinz hotdog packed dot com says, this is just the start.
Let's make hot dog packs even all over the world.
Look at them for working for world peace. And you
can click sign the petition and it's a change dot
org petition, which change dot org petitions are one of
my least favorite things in the world, are one of

(02:26):
the most pointless. It's just an email list, but anyway
you can it says, help us change the hot dog
industry for the better and continue to get wieners and
buns sold in even packs all over the world. We've
succeeded in selecting parts of Canada, but we're not stopping
until the hot dogs mismatch is solved globally. Hot dog

(02:47):
histories in your hands. So I do hate.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
To can't believe this has finally happened to Elizabeth the
Day has done.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Canadian hot dog packed. But it's that's it, so we
gotta work.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
And it's also wonder bred favorite.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Almost thirty six thousand signatures and their goal is.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
They're about to have thirty six thousand and one. Can
I get in on this as a non Canadian? Yeah,
I mean I also have a Canadian identity.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I can just use that if they want to creep
across the border. It's get an up there. Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
It's totally ridiculous. You know this is ridiculous. Tell me
sit back down. Do you know it's just about did
you know that? Sometimes cops it's like I'm done today. No, No,
you are not done, young lady. So I didn't have
a fun fact for you. Yeah, cops, they bust people, right, ridiculous, Yeah, totally.
But also when cops bust people, some of those people

(03:39):
they bust are cops. It's just a mathematical fact.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I guess, right.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, so sometimes Elizabeth gets ridiculous when cops bust cops.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers,
heiss and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free
and one hundred percent ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Hold on, I'll be right there. Okay, I'm back.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
I told you to sit down. Sorry, don't the day
what didn't you guyad?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
I got I.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Answer, Elizabeth, I got a question for you. This may
keep you situated for a second. What's your favorite movie
about an undercover cop?

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Remains of the Day wrong?

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Your favorite movie about an undercover cop is also your
favorite movie about bank robbers, which keeps this simple for
you to remember, Elizabeth your what's your favorite movie about
a bank robber? It's your favorite about under copy Pray.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Which was made in nineteen ninety one, which, as you know.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Came out nineteen ninety one. Yes, now, you old Johnny Utah, I.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Am man FBI agent.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
It is an undercover one it's like being a double
duty super undercover Cup.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I wish he would have said, I am and undercover agent.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Now I know there could be mini right answers for
what's your favorite undercover cop movie? But now that's it. Okay,
but what about streaming shows TV? What's your favorite undercover
cup show?

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Undercover cop show?

Speaker 1 (05:24):
I can't help you. I don't have an answer this
time before you.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
You undercover, boss, undercover. I don't know who goes undercover.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Lately, I've been watching Narcos. Okay, yeah, you want to
just think about Yeah, they're like da agents.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Oh yeah, that's right. We've had this discussion where I've
seen the show and then keep forgetting every element of
the show. I've totally seen that, and then you're like,
what were you talking about? Who's the guy the Mandalorian?

Speaker 1 (05:53):
You were like, he was in that. I've got it.
I've got your favorite, Elizabeth. It's oh, oh that's that
is definitely he's a Rockford guy. I'll share it.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, I like all No, I don't like all undercover operations,
but anyway, go ahead, proceed anyway.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Narcos, I've been, you know, watching it because both the
Colombian one and the Mexican one. I recommend them both
because you know, I love that stuff, the crime, and
I've been working on my Spanish, so i want to
develop the accent of like a Colombian narco trafficante. Yeah. Anyway, Nako,
they got me thinking about undercover cops, right, So we
don't cover them often, right, Well we could normally, like

(06:34):
we typically focus on the other side of the law.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, we like costuming for criminals, but let's talk about
costuming for cops.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yes, undercover cops, they really straddle the line, like their fences.
They walk both like the side of the law and
the criminal, and they're into dress up. I figure you'd
like that.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
There was a there's a story in the paper around
here the other day about this undercover operation and these
guys infiltrated a karaoke club where there was like drug
and process.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Funny, I know.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
But then I was like they were saying that the
waitress at this karaoke club came and laid down all
these lines of ketamine in front of the guys.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Really and then but I'm.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Like they had the prostitutes in the room with them,
Like did they do the kedemene?

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah? Well, I'm glad you asked, Elizabeth, because before we
get in today's story, let's establish some ground rules. Yes,
all this like, what can undercover cops do?

Speaker 2 (07:24):
I have questions and it looks like you've got to answer.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Oh my god, maybe look at this. I'm opening up
my jacket. I got all these answers here, I got
this side, I got that site. These are new, these
are old. Anyway, we need to get some stuff straight
before we hit the ground round. Okay, what is an
undercover cop? What are the rules? Right? So you're the
daughter of a lawyer. You probably know this better than
I do. There's a little thing called do process, sure,
and that means you have to let the justice process

(07:48):
do its work right, So let judges and juries adjudicate,
let prosecutors prosecute, defenders defend cops? What do they do?
Collect evidence and arrest purpse? Yeah, you watch Law and Order.
You know how this goes. Now when it comes to
undercover cops, things the line gets blurry because what's an
example of due process gone wrong for an undercover cop? Okay, well,

(08:08):
I found a story this pair of undercover New York cups.
They were once targeting a pair of coke dealers with
this guy's Bobby Shine and Stanley Robinson cops gunning for
a bus. They're all geeked up. They want to get
these cats and Bobby Shane is Stanley Robinson. So they
ask them like, hey man, we want to buy some
coke from you, and the coke dealers like a son,
We're good. No, I don't trust you man. You got

(08:29):
that like putty face, all right, So the undercover cops
wouldn't take no for an answer, so they keep pestering
these two coke dealers every time they're at their local bar, Elizabeth,
here comes these two undercover cups trying to buy some blow.
They're like, hey man, my buddy and I really like
to from you. Totally sunglasses, wine shirts. They're in New York.
I don't know. I don't know what they were in,
but they're like, hey, do you got that Florida snow?

(08:50):
Many man? Does? Come on man? Some white girl up
trying to you know, come on guys. Anyway, These actual
coke dealers are like, no, leave us at I'm trying
to talk my lady. Come on man, and then would
not lay him alone Elizabeth. So finally Stanley Robinson just
to get these cops off his back. He tell them,
I get you got some I get you some book
of sugar. You're good, right. He brings the undercover cops

(09:12):
some stuff, sells it to them. These undercover cops are related.
They've got their bust or so they thought Elizabeth until
they found out the coke was actually a bag of sugar.
It was actual sugar, literal sugar. It was like how
my man Willy d from the Ghetto Boys once rhyme
thut he had cane, but it was gold medal flowing
right now. So what did these undercover cops do when

(09:33):
they find out they got played? They get pissed. Yeah,
so both literally and figuratively, Like I mean, they go
out drinking and they get mad. So they get pissed
and pissed and they decided to do something about it.
So these drunk undercover cops go over to Stanley Robinson's
home and they kick in the door wave in the
four four right. They come rushing in and they find
Bobby Shine and Stanley Robinson there, just like you know

(09:53):
Landlow undercover cops. They have us in firearms out. They
demand two coke dealers give them either money, drugs, Okay,
they searched them, Elizabeth, the drunk undercover cops. They find
two bags of coke. So they bust Stanley Robinson and
Bobby Shine.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Now there's no probable cost.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
There's nothing. They're just made God darn it, you know.
So did the undercover cops step outside the law? What's
your call, Elizabeth? Well, the court said, nope, all good boom, guilty, convicted, sentenced,
But nope, not at all. But Bobby Shine appealed his conviction,
and then the appeals court reversed this conviction. And when
they reversed the conviction, the court actually took care to

(10:33):
note and that this case was and I quote, one
of those rare cases where police conduct constituted a denial
of due process. So basically, good luck when it's your
word against an undercover cop, because most of the times
the courts are like, I don't know, it looks good
to me.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
So if you dig into these guidelines and legal limits
for undercover cops, and I did because for you, thank you,
you will find that quote the conditions under which undercover
police officers may participate in crime have seldom been the
subject of regulatory oversight.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Oh so they.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Oh, way more than that. So this I checked out
the Stanford Law Review article breaking the Law to enforce
it undercover police participation in crime, and they go all
through it, right. This same article goes on to point
out that quote, what exists is a patchwork of applicable
state and federal constitutional law restraints that loosely regulates undercover
operations and generally accepts and undercover officers violate the letter

(11:25):
of the law in order to catch criminals. So they are,
you know, they have a license to commit crime. But yeah,
way more than that. Now, there's some good news when
it comes to oversight of these undercover cops because there
are some judges ruling from the bench with their you know,
gavel hot operating under the idea that these guys have
a legal mandate, that there is quote in theory, a

(11:46):
limit to what the police can do. But few, if
any case is ever found to cross that line. Oh yeah,
so there's your latement. We don't we think it could happen. Yeah,
it just never happens in this court.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
So it never happens here.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
What are the rules? Well, as we covered, most local
police don't really have explicit strict guidelines as much as
the list of try not tos. So I did find
the LA Sheriff's Department had a set of clear, explicit
guidelines for their undercover operatives. So I went and I
checked it all out, and I found an interesting thing
you probably would dig when it comes to creating your
fake identity. What are the rules? Well? LASD requires that

(12:20):
quote when any fictitious identity is utilized by an undercover deputy,
a copy of any fictitious identity documents shall be photocopied
and given to their immediate supervisor, who shall ensure it
is maintained in the undercover deputy's personnel jacket. This may
include one driver's license, two automobile registration, three vehicle license plate.
Fictitious identity shall also be reported to the LA Clearinghouse,

(12:41):
which shall maintain computerized records on a no release basis.
Should an inquiry be made on the fictitious identity, an
immediate notification we made to designated bureau member. So this
is all like it's what you think, right, Okay, So
those strict guidelines are pretty good, but when it comes
to what an officer is supposed to do, there is
not so much of that. Outside of protecting them. There's

(13:03):
a lot of rules about protecting the cops. But like
how an officer is not to be there when arrest
goes down, they got rules about that, right, So an
undercover agent isn't supposed to be like there because they
don't want to be mistaken as a suspect and then
treated as such. And then the FBI being the cream
of the US based law enforcement, the bureau, they have
explicit sets of guidelines for their undercover agents. For instance,

(13:25):
the DOJ has laid out these are this guidelines, and
it refers agents to the Attorney General's guidelines on Federal
Bureau of Investigation undercover operations, all official right now. In
this Elizabeth, agents are instructed that quote, ordinary undercover operations
require prior approval by a special agent in charge of
each FBI office. They're supposed to get written determination that

(13:48):
the proposed investigation will be effective and that will be
conducted in a minimally intrusive way. That's all their language.
So it goes on to place time limits on deep
cover work. Quote Ordinarily and authorized undercover operation may last
up to six months, subject to a six month renewal,
and involve expenditures of no more than one hundred thousand dollars. Wow,
I got admit, that's less play money than I thought

(14:10):
they were them.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Now, as for as far as the doing crime's part, quote,
in an ordinary undercover operation, the guidelines explicitly forbid undercover
officials from participating in violent acts except as a matter
of self defense. So that's one crime that they are like, yeah,
they're going to lay that one out. Now. The agency
must get approval constantly, right, So they're oversight officers. They

(14:31):
would beholden to the DOJ, so they have to answer
to the lawyers, and so they want this all to
be prosecutable. So, for instance, Elizabeth, quote, any official providing
authorization for a legal activity must consider that a legal
activity is justified only if it is needed to obtain
evidence that is not otherwise reasonably available, to establish or
maintain a secret identity, or to prevent death or seriously

(14:54):
bodily injury. Okay, So this is actually some parameters, or
so one would seem right. If an undercover agent wants
to commit a felony, he's supposed to be or she
is supposed to get approval.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Okay, So quote, may I commit a felony?

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Basically, mother may I quote, felonies not specified in the
guidelines are considered sensitive circumstances that must be approved by
the Undercover Review Committee as well as the FBI Director,
assistant Director, deputy director, or executive assistant Director, depending on circumstances. Okay,
so there it seems like, right, being an undercover agent
is kind of like how Hollywood plays it out for
the FBI would have all these restrictions. But there was

(15:31):
one thing I found that kind of invalidates everything I
just told you, because, as the Stanford Law Review points out, quote,
there is, however, one important limitation to the guidelines. They
are non binding.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Oh so it's just a suggestion.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
They're guidelines, They're literally guidelines. The FBI designed them so
that they would have quote they're meant for internal DOJ
guidance only, and that they quote state they are not
intended to do, not and may not be relied on
to create any rights substantive or procedural enforceable by law
by any party in any matter civil or criminal, or
do they place any limitations on otherwise lawful investigative or

(16:03):
litigative prerogatives of the Department of Justice. Otherwise f OFF basically.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, can you come for us these practices, I know
we fall short quest So they.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Exist in this gray area of the law. So to
answer any remaining questions that you have, do they have
to tell you if they're a cop, No, no they
do not. Can they smoke pot or do drugs if
they're undercover, Yes, yes they can. According to an Ohio
appellate court, it's ruling stated, quote, an undercover agent engaged
in the business of trying to stamp out the illicit
drug traffic may smoke marijuana in order to give the
appearance of validity to his conduct. So yes, they can

(16:35):
do that with cocaine, methamphetamine. What you got.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
But not only that, courts have also determined that undercover
officers are free and clear to quote conduct buy and
bust in order to flip and roll drug dealers and
turn them into informants. So this thing called the reverse sting.
That's undercover agents or cops quote pretend to be drug
users or illegal gun buyers looking for a willing seller.
So then they supply the drugs or the guns and
they try to sell them anybody who buys them. They

(16:58):
get busted. So they're out there like literally setting up. Yeah,
the reverse things Supreme Court ruled in something called United
States versus Russell. If you're into that kind of stuff,
that they reverse things are quote totally legal, totally cool.
So yeah, so like, how far can undercover agent take
this lawlessness? Elizabeth? Can they have sexual relations with the
suspect or informant while they're undercover? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Probably, I guess, great.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Question, Elizabeth. After this break, I'll tell you the answer
and a story that'll answer all the questions and so
many more.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Okay, Elizabeth barn Just so we don't fall into the

(17:52):
belief that all this undercover cop nonsense only occurs in
the US.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, I have a story for you from where the UK.
Yeah are kissing cousins in the English language?

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yea.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
So it starts with this woman having to tell her
mom that the man she met who was her fiance
was not a real person. And it's not like you
typically imagine because he was a real person, but the
identity he was living it with or under it with
and whatever on his fake identity as her fiance was
not real. That was the part that was not real,
or has the woman put it to her mother. What
I'm saying is that Carlo was not a locksmith. He

(18:25):
was an undercover cop working for a special branch. He
was sent by the state to spy on my friends.
Whoa Yes, that's from a story published in The Guardian
back in January twenty twenty two, and they were engaged, yeah,
with the title I Fell in Love with an undercover cop.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, this one's a doo Elizabeth. Oh yeah, Like how
did you get to that point?

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (18:48):
So this couple they first met at a protest in London.
This is a protest against the Iraq war in September
two thousand and two. So she meets this handsome stranger.
He's hanging out with a friend of hers. He's this
fellow activist the friend. The friend then introduces her to
the handsome stranger and says, oh, is this comrade from Bologna,
you know, like in Italy. Right. So the young pair
they hit it off, they start dating, They do all

(19:09):
the typical you know, he and she and that you do.
In two thousand and two. Six weeks later, he moves
in with her.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Okay, okay, seems like things are.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Going well or fast whatever, fast as she tells it. Yeah,
as a woman, what do you think a little fast.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Six weeks. Oh yeah, six weeks to move in together,
to move in get out of here.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, but you're in like an activist space, so people
are like having like, you know, housing, this maybe sometimes
a king's stable.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Don't care love bombing red flag.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
As she tells it, Carlo was everything I wanted in
a potner. He was affectionate, generous, an exceptional cook, loved dogs,
and firmly believed in monogamy. And then three months later
after they first met Elizabeth, things get real serious. As
the story goes, we'd spent Christmas apot and then he
dropped her off for a flight. She flies back to
Scotland and he said he was gonna go be Italy

(19:56):
with his family. No, no, she she was visiting to Scotland.
They were just meeting. I don't it doesn't matter. You
don't want to hear my Scottish I you don't want
to hear my English accent. I'm doing it anyway. So
just after Christmas he returns right and the couple they
throw a seasonal party and they invite their friends circle over,
which is basically her activist friends. So he's like, and
by the way, this invite was his idea. He's like,

(20:16):
why did you invite all your activist friends over this Italian?

Speaker 5 (20:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Exactly, Carlo, so the way she remembers it. Quote. As
they arrived, we welcomed them with Rossini's prosecco with strawberries.
Carlo had blended himself laughter bounced off the walls of
our small flat. Carlo was wearing the shirt my mom
had brought him for Christmas, floral, pinky beige cord. He
moved around, saying hello to people he'd never met, pointing

(20:43):
in my direction. I chatted to friends who said he's
a keeper. Now before her friends, he gets down on
one knee and he proposes.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Oh wow, and he's undercover.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, and he's an undercover agent. You know that nobody
else does. This is a little like, you know, Hitchcockian knowledge. Okay, anyway,
not everyone present heard the proposal. As the party was
in full flow, the pogues were blasting out from the
CD player. I've got a feeling this year is for
me and you. I love you, baby, Carlos sang, will
you marry me? Donna on one knee in the middle

(21:15):
of the dance floor, looking down his face, I knew
he loved me. His eyes would never lie. Yes, Yes,
I will marry you. I whooped, and everyone turned around
to see him lift me off my feet, black tights
showing as my swirly dress got caught up in his arms.
He put me down, arms still wrapped around me, looking
into my eyes. She was quite literally swept off her

(21:37):
feet by an undercovered You know.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
What, Shane McGowan. God Rest would not approve.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Oh my god, he'd spit right in this guy's eyeing.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
The soundtrack for this hot mess totally.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
I elbow him in the throat. So you may be
wondering were they intimate? Like, were they carnally aware of
each other? Keep that thought, I suppose, so come on, yeah,
I mean get yeah, I mean they're modern. Yes, so
you have to assume. But we don't know. So let's
keep that in mind. Maybe, you know whatever. First, the
undercover cop Carlo who just proposed to her, did they
go through with it? No, they did not, Elizabeth, because

(22:09):
he ghosted her. He did not go through with the proposal.
They did not make it to the Altar.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well because he would have had to sign documents all
sorts of stuff. Can I just say something, this is
up like for real.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yes, oh, yes, for so many reasons.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Anyway, continue and then I'll expound on my reason.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yes, okay, so he moved in after knowing her for
six weeks? Did deserve Before they ever get to the altar,
he rushes the exit. He then the way he leaves,
he moves out. While she's out of the house, she
comes home to the surprise of her fiance and all
his stuff magically gone. Oh my god, he had chosen
to move out while I was at work, turning up
in his estate car to clear out his belongings. He

(22:50):
took everything with him, every book, cup, sausa, right down
to the last teaspoon. It felt like a forensic operation.
So there she has, wondering what went wrong with Carlo
and why her fiance bounced on her right, she never
gets answers years past Elizabeth years. What the one day
she thinks she sees them on like the tube, right,

(23:12):
She's like, dude, Like, She's like, is that him? Like
the underground He's sitting next to her, but he's like,
looks like he's German, so it couldn't be him, And
so she's like, no, he's a tie and that's not him. Anyway,
probably was any I don't she had to hit onto.
I think you think it was if I remember correctly,
a scarf like he was like supporting a German football team,
and so she and he must have been maybe blasting
German techno from the thirties. Yes, So one day he

(23:36):
sees a book called Undercover by these two journalists for
The Guardian, Rob Evans and Paul lewis right, and they'd
helped to expose this whole scandal where undercover cops from
the Metropolitan Police created fictitious relationships with activists who were
women so they could penetrate the circles of activists in
the hopes of manipulating the women, investigating their friends and
the comrades, and being able to create huge dossiers because

(23:58):
the women to be unsuspecting of these gorgeous guys. Carlo
was an undercover cop.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
So twenty fifteen, this woman, she receives a message on Facebook.
This is like a decade later after the whole Carlo
first proposed scenario. The message leads this woman to meeting
one of the journalists, Rob Evans. When they meet, he
informs with these undercover agents were quote paid extremely well
to lie for a living. It occurred to me that
all my presence would have been on expenses. Yes, do

(24:25):
you get the ID?

Speaker 5 (24:26):
All right?

Speaker 1 (24:26):
So it means she realizes every moment was by yes night.
Flash forward to twenty eighteen. There's this renewed call for
justice for these women who were love bombed by these
undercover cops. She gets a solicitor aka lawyer for our
American listeners. There are the bunch of other women pursuing
justice that they start working together in Metropolitan Police. They
launch an internal investigation. Same year, this woman she sits

(24:48):
for an interview with two female officers from the met Police.
She recounts the whole relationship down to the dirty details
such as like, quote, what he looked like naked, his body, hair,
his funny shaped toes, his the rest of his body. Elizabeth, Yeah,
right now. It turns out they weren't using condoms because
wait for it, they were monogamous. Okay, stop Elizabeth, Elizabeth,

(25:08):
they were not monogamous. Carlo the undercover cop was not
monogamous because turns out he was married no, and he
was pressuring both his real wife and his fake fiance
to get pregnant and have his kids.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
No, no, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
This is all happening as justice.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I am stunned.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yes, right, absolutely so the Met cops informer of this,
that Carlo was married and these two women they're in
this little, tiny square room. We sympathize with you and
how crappy our colleague was to you and whatever as
a cop. So after the interview, the investigation by the
Met Police goes on the Crown Prosecution Service. I'd be like,
you know, the prosecutors. They decide not to prosecute the case,

(25:46):
her case, but not just her case, none of the cases. Why, Elizabeth. Why?
Because CPS determined that the undercover cop was operating quote
on genuine feelings, and not just him, not just Carlo,
but all of the undercover cops are found to be
acting on genuine feelings. That's a legal term. That's what
they use in the court, genuine feelings. They're out there

(26:07):
measuring men's feelings, the thing everyone's always talking about, are
so clear and easy to measure men's feelings. So, in
other words, the Crown rule that cops loved these women
and that they were professionally lying to creating false relationships
in order to investigate their friends. But they the love
part was real, genuine feelings.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
You know, this isn't even like there are no lives
in the balance of their supposed crimes. They're war protesters.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Total, exactly. They're just trying to the cops are just
trying to penetrate their circle.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yes, So this brings us to the question of moral
ambiguity for undercover cops.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Oh, those Carlo, if that is his real name at all,
those guys are gonna have to face some serious reckoning
at some point. Yeah, you can't. That is psychopath behavior, right,
you can't do that.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
They were like James bonding around with like a license
to kill, but it was a license to thrill in
the bedroom where every else and to just break hearts
and killed minds.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Like what is broken within them that they could just
pick up and leave or to do it in the
first place, but also just like the no explanation, and
to do it because it's leaving wreckage in their way, and.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
They're doing this for justice. Keep this in mind always,
And they're telling themselves what they're doing is trying to
advance protection.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
And they're out with all these like Guardian readers while
they're like eating lentils and talking about making signs at
protests where they like, you know, maybe this isn't such
a big.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Maybe they aren't a big threat. Yeah, yeah, you might
think that, right, is like this is what we talk
for the Black Panthers in the sixties. But this is like,
you know, did you point out tofu eating Brits in
the two thousands who were not really known for their violence.

Speaker 5 (27:40):
No.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Anyway, the way that the law looks at it, According
to the Stanford Law Review and I quote the stress
of deception, undercover work exacts many personal costs from individual investigators.
Occupational hazards are legion. Not only must the undercover officer
present and maintain a credible false identity and a criminal mealieu,
often he must also gain the confidence of his criminal associates.

(28:02):
Accidental disclosure can result in violence against the agent, or
at the very least the abrupt end of the investigation.
So that's the reason why they get such carte blanche,
because they have to convince everybody. So we couldn't just
possibly limit what they do, because Elizabeth, they could the
investigation be corrupted, they could get killed. One of these
hippies might kill them with tofu so everywhere that I

(28:22):
looked and all that I researched, I couldn't find any
explicit guidelines about undercover cops sleeping with suspects and informants.
They are left to figure that out on their own.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
How convenience getting engaged?

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, so that that can be a problem because, as
the Stanford Law Review noted, quote, some departments prefer to
use young recruits or relatively inexperienced officers as undercover agents
in part because they pose a smaller risk of recognition
by targets. Now what does that mean, Elizabeth, Well.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
You know that if they're new to the force, people
aren't going to be like, wait, you arrested me exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
But they also don't know much about cops. They are
being a cop, they haven't been very well trained, they
don't have a lot of experience. So what happens? Well, ference,
since I have one from the Stanford Law Review, they
have this little for instance that I thought was particularly interesting.
There was a young detective working undercover in Brooklyn. He's
investigating members of the Muslim community on the hunter for
quote Islamic extremists, and this fresh out of the academy

(29:14):
kid he gets dropped into a two year long deep
cover assignment with no undercover training. Prior to doing this.
His only contact with the police is in email exchange
with one supervisor. Oh my god, two years to drop
him in. Tell us wherever you find, go out there ahead, live,
do whatever you gotta do. We just want to hear
the facts. And so he's just told like carte blanche,
like licensed to line whatever you need, create whatever, get

(29:36):
people involved in stuff, like you can generate crime, but
need be may they have the reverse sting so you
can go out there and buy the guns and try
to sell it to them. He can do whatever he wants.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Well. And the thing is, it's like this notion of
no training, so that they say it's this horrible thing.
It causes all this pressure and difficulty on their lives,
and it puts them under tremendous stream. Wouldn't you think
that they would need comprehensive training and.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Out order supervision training, a bunch of things. If you
wanted to go well, I mean, like you actually honestly
wanted to go.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well, I'm not going to trust anybody ever.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Again, that's good under cover, but I don't have to
tell you anyway. I can just lie.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
They made it out in the TV shows, movies.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
They none of that is true. They can do pretty much.
It is the one of the craziest loopholes. It's like
bounty hunters. You learn about what they can do, You're like,
why are they allowed to just ignore all the laws? Well,
because it really matters to us to get these purps
back your private laws anyway, your your rights. So researchers
Elizabeth into undercover cops they have found when it comes

(30:40):
to this deep cover work, these agents quote must have
the ability to improvise because there are no rules to
deep cover work and the person must be basically deceitful.
So we're taking these young, deceitful people who are good
at improvising and sending them out these little like.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Sociopaths, the most annoying people.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
If only in Hollywood terms. We always think like Denzel
Washington and training day, Right, he's just going out there
and he's like, you know, King calling and got you know.
So that's but it's now because remember what I was
telling about reverse stings. That's what the undercover cops are.
I think, to sell guns and drugs. Here's a story
where they bust somebody, right, In twenty thirteen, there's this

(31:19):
story that came out that showed the community outside of
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, was using reverse stings to make big
money for the municipality. Oh yeah, you see, when you
bust someone for a drug buy, the cops get to
keep the money or the cars, the motorcycles, the nice clothes,
whatever the purps use in commission of a car. Yeah,
so to some undercover cops, that turns into a license
to basically shop at the drug dealer emporium. See, they

(31:42):
see a truck they want, they just bust that driver
and they had they have to plant some drugs to
do it. Oh look, you look, you look what I found.
And then boom, they got a new truck. You're busted
and the truck is there. So town is called Sunrise,
Florida Elizabeth and according to ABC News, down in Sunrise, Florida, quote,
undercover police detectives play the role of cocaine dealers and
try to lure in potential buyers who drive or fly

(32:02):
in from all over the country with wads of cash.
If the stings are successful, informants can receive large payouts
and police can seize cash, cars and other non monetary assets.
The bus have pumped millions of dollars into local coffers.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
So yeah. The Sun Sentinel was the one to report
on the story, and it was a six month long investigation.
Megan Omettz, she's one of the reporters who breaks this story.
She said, and I quote, the police are not actually
finding these drug dealers on their own, but they rely
on paid and unpaid informants to tell them about people
that might be looking for cocaine. It became obvious to
us that the reason that they are doing this is
because of the money. So now you have undercover cops

(32:39):
incentivizing criminals to snitch on each other, and the cops
get to keep their proceeds.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Those forfeiture laws are such a mess.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Well, it didn't aways play out to smoothly as this
because sometimes the cops we have to improvise, and so
would the purpse, and so you know, the I guess
the informants rather. For instance, let's take the story of
Gus Borjas Elizabeth Guss. He was a nurse, he's a
father for and he had this shap associate who's apparently
an informant for the Sunrise pde and this informant needed
a new bust for whatever reason. So they contact Gus.

(33:06):
They tell them, hey, man, I'm trying to get rid
of some old debts. Can I borrow twenty three grand?
Can you bring it to me? And so Gus, apparently
I don't know how he knows this guy, he agrees
to bring him twenty three grand in cash to a
parking lot. Gus is a g He shows up and
he's got all the money the dude needs. The guy
shows up in the parking lot and Gus is alone
with his twenty three grand in a satchel. So, according

(33:26):
to the video recorded by the undercover cops, when Gus
gets there, there are two paid informants who are waiting
for him, not with the cops, just in another car. Right, so,
the undercover cops are surveiling the scene. Right So, now
to make this bus, the cops need Gus to buy
the drugs that the associate has brought. What does that mean, Well,
it means the informants have to hand him the drugs
or if that doesn't work, they can just push the

(33:47):
drugs on him. Elizabeth. You see, when they try to
give him the drugs, Guss he won't go for it.
He's like, no, I don't want any cocaine to be
talking about. I brought the twenty three grand, So that
ruins the bus. But the informants you're like, man, I
got him out here, so they just put the There
is a woman with the original informant. She just takes
a kilo of cocaine and shoves it into the satchel
with all the money, and so boom. They consider that

(34:08):
evidence of a drug buy. Cops sloop in. They bust
the guy for cocaine distribution. He never gives him the money.
The cocaine is shoved into his bag and they're like, okay,
that's the deal. So now he's no dummy, this guy borjas.
They bust the wrong good citizen this time. So Gus
recalled during his bust. As soon as I got arrested.
As soon as they just everything coicked in my head.
Why this, Why that they set me up? So he

(34:31):
goes in and he gets himself a good lawyer. He
defends himself in court. This brings attention to the practice
and then we get all the investigations. But he turns out,
you know, to be the you know straw that breaks
his Campbell's back for Sunrise, Florida. Over two year stretch,
the Sun Sentinel noticed that this police department quote netted
five point eight million and seized money. Just the money.

(34:52):
Where did that money go? Great question, Elizabeth. The funds
were went to pay officers for overtime, so so much
over time that these cops, some of the cops is
on Rice, Florida. They doubled their annual salary with overtime. Amazing.
You know what they were getting overtime from from watching
these informants go out there and get them that money.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
That forehas though, like he does, lack critical thinking skills.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Someone stuff.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Someone asked me for a loan, yes, and said, wells Fargo,
you're gonna need to find another piece.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
May have been going there to buy cocaine, Elizabeth. I'm
just saying is that the deal never went down.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Who loans someone money in cash in a satchel?

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Like I said, I don't believe all the story. I
just know that you can't plant plant the drugs on
a person just because you're trying to get to the
end of the deal. Like, let's just skip to the end.
So the in Florida State law allows officers to seize
non monetary assets. Remember I mentioned that what does that mean,
sees non monetary assets, Well, that means in Sunrise, Florida.
According to Megan Matts, these officers quote, they can take

(35:52):
their cars, jewelry. One fellow told us a cop said, Hey,
I like the sunglasses you're wearing. Snatched them off. So
there's a real profit motive for these Oh yeah, yeah,
so that nurse gus borhas. Yeah, he gets his twenty
three grand back. I don't know what happened, but in court,
the prosecutor offers him a plea deal on a charge
of solicitation to purchase cocaine. They do not drop that
because he apparently agreed that the paying informant.

Speaker 5 (36:14):
No.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, but the prosecutor agreed that their paid informant planted
the cocaine on him. But he still would not have
gone and like given dropped the charges.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
He said that they may have quote gone too far. Yeah,
may have gone too far. The lawyer for Gus the
nurse argued that it was all a corrupt deal. The
undercover cops are incentivized to lie, to cheat, to steal it,
so and so are the informants right to who are
typically criminals. Like, so we're exactly working together. So, as
a lawyer put it for Gus, he puts it, quote,
these people only get paid if the deal goes down.

(36:44):
Gus is the one who pulled off his backpack and
opened it up. The informant did she takes his backpack off,
She on zips it. She's searching in for the money.
Guss isn't the one who took the cocaine. She took
a kilo of cocaine, stuffed it in his backpack. Here's
the backpack. Go get arrested. So you see, like I
believe that there may have been something hinky in the deal.
I don't think he showed up with twenty grand grand
for his friend, like here you go, I'll loan do

(37:05):
that money. Yeah, but she planted the drugs. That's why
I say it ain't right. It's not fair. You know me,
I typically read for the criminals. Whatever, let's take a
break and after these pipe and hot delicious fresh ads, Elizabeth,
I have a few more stories for you, and these
will answer the question of what happens when undercover cop
busts another cop?

Speaker 5 (37:23):
Oh yeah, Elizabeth Saron you're digging the cops stories.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
I love these stories, we love them in the way
that some of they're enraging me. But do go on.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Okay, I promised to answer the question what happens when
undercover cops bust other cops? Yes, and I will answer that,
I promise you. But first I'd like to tell you
a little palate cleanser. Okay, So imagine you were busted
by an undercover care bear. Yeah, I'm sorry, or rather
a cop dressed as a care bear.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh God is this? And and you're in Peru okay.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Right, the sex South America, Peru, right like not like Peru, Indiana,
like Peru, the country. Uh huh, Well, Elizabeth, you don't
need to because I'd like you to close your eyes.
Oh no, I'd like you to picture it. Elizabeth. You
are currently in Peru. You're there in Lima, the capital city.
It's February, and since you're in the Southern Hemisphere, that
means it's summertime. The air is warm, humid, and fragranced

(38:37):
with the aroma of flowers. This soft breeze lifts your hair,
A smile decorates your lips. It's a charming day of
the weather just right, The daytime, sounds of the street
color the scene. You came to this country for personal reasons.
You've already attended the Candelaria festival and witnessed the traditional
religious celebration that takes place there in the Lake Titi
Kaka region. At the moment, now, you're waiting to meet

(38:59):
your old friend Sarah T so you two can travel
together across Peru. Maybe you'll hit up Machu Picchu. Who
knows who cares for? Right now, you're alone, enjoying the
vibe in the atmosphere of Lima. At the moment, you're
eating some street food you picked up from local vendors,
some spring rolls with fresh avocado and some tamalis cuscainos,
the steam dumplings. They smell amazing and are stuff with

(39:21):
ahi amarillo to wash it down. You have a Chica morara,
a non alcoholic sweet corn drink, Elizabeth. It's all looking
and smelling so good. You're all set to enjoy your
meal as you also watch some free street entertainment. There's
this enormous care bear walking down the alley. What's striking
captivating your attention is this enormous care beer is carrying

(39:41):
a giant box of Valentine's Day chocolates. He looks to
be delivering a Valentine's Day surprise. You keep watching. Along
with the box of chocolates, the enormous care beer is
also carrying a heart shaped balloon and a sign that
reads in Spanish, you are my reason to smile. Now
you are overly carried. You got to see the woman

(40:01):
who this care bear or a man who this care
bear is aiming to surprise with this overt showing of
love and romance. And then you see the care bear pause.
He bends down, gets to one knee, lowers himself, and
he holds his gifts up looking to a second story window.
And this is what you see, Elizabeth.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Oh God.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Next you hear some commotion. You look up to see
a woman at the window. She spies this enormous care
bear down at the street level. Her face breaks open
with a wide smile similar to yours. She doesn't delay.
She comes rushing down to the porch to meet the
giant care bear. Turns out this woman is a notorious
drug queen pin And that's when you hear it running

(40:44):
footsteps slapping against the cobblestones of the alley way, you
turn to see a plain closed cop from the Anti
Drug Task Force running at full speed. When you turn back,
you see the care bear wrestling the woman to the alley.
The care Bear's head is knocked off, revealing the undercover
cop inside and the drug queens Russell and Fright in
the alley Before the backup cops can reach them. The

(41:05):
undercover cop in the enormous care bear costume, he manages
to get on top of the drug queen Pint and
subdue her. It's a strange thing. The arresting officers discover
stashes of heroin and what appears to be I don't know, fetanol.
He Elizabeth just got a free show a lima lima. Okay,
so I know that you just watched it all go down,
But just to jog your memory, here's a picture of

(41:26):
the headless care bear with the undercover cop inside, seated
on the drug queen pin.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Let me see, Oh god, that is okay a couple things.
That is the cheapest care bear costume I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
And there's another shot of the drug queen pins. You
can see her being led away by the enormous undercover
care bear and his head back on.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Oh, we put the head back on for the Oh so.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
The photo op, Elizabeth for the photo op.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
I don't think that's a care bear. That's just a bear.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Okay, fine, it doesn't have like the heart in the center.
But I like a care bear. Okay, it's fine. It's
a teddy bear with very flirt. So what do you
want from me? The cop is from Lima's Squadron there
Day in English, the Green Squadron. They're the undercover agent
or unit rather in charge of fighting street crimes. Right,
So there's a squadron very day they go around and
they apparently love outrageous costumes because months earlier, during the

(42:15):
winter holidays, one of the Lima undercover cops from the
Squadron there Day, he went out on a drug raid
disguised as Santa Claus.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Fully participated and Santa Claus getting down. At one point,
undercover Santa whipped out a sledgehammer and went to work
on the door of a drug den. So you've had
you just seeing that a new undercover Santa he breaks
down the drug den's door. But it was just a
distraction because simultaneously other arm cops descended from the second floor.

(42:44):
It was a total Santa.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Move this part of it.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
But the reindeer came from the roof though. So I
think these undercover peruving cops, they're just like like you
said earlier, some drama kids. They couldn't find steady work
in Perus, they became undercover cops. You know what, Mom's
proud of me now because I got healthcare either way,
so they get a real steep discount at the local
costume shop.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
I guess imagine since that one was fun, where they
plant cocaine and they just take the cart of a seizure.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Hey, the Saint Florida, don't don't blame don't blame Peru.
They ain't like Florida, Elizabeth. Since that one was fun,
I got another wild one for you. Yes, okay, there's
always danger when you're working as an undercover cop, right
because that some other cop might come along and shoot you.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Well, no, the biggest danger you might fall in love.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
With the man in the mirror. Dateline, Albuquerque, New Mexico,
twenty sixteen. A cop is working undercover on a drug bust.
That's when Blue on Blue crime occurred, Elizabeth. You see
Detective Jacob Grant as I said, working undercover on a
drug buy, working with a partner. He and his partner
in a follow car. The cars are surrounded by cops.
The officers swarmed the drug buy cars. In the video,

(43:49):
there's a video of this footage, right, and there's like
especially like body cam footage. Lieutenant Greg Brackley, I'm just
gonna call it Broccoli anyway, he enters the scene, weapon drawn.
He approaches a car from the drug bust. He tells
the folks inside the car put your hands right and
saalm put your hands wrong and seal them right one second.
One second later, Lieutenant Greg shouts gun, gun, gun, and

(44:10):
then he unloads his service weapon into the car. He
shoots his own detective eight times. Oh god, wait, how
did I get to that so quickly? How did a
police lieutenant shoot his own detective on a coordinated drug bust. Well,
let's back up, Elizabeth.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
According to the lieutenant, Greg BROCCOLI's supervisor, the lieutenant did
not attend the briefing before the bust.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Oops.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
No, yeah, So then when the bust went down hit,
the lieutenant still responded to the call because he wanted
to get in on the action. So he shows up
not knowing the details or the particulars, and then he
gets on the scene weapon drawn enters right. So the
detective who was seated behind the driver, who was also
an undercover cop, so they're working as a tag team. This,
by the way, is considered standard procedure. Apparently the partner's

(44:52):
position himself behind the driver to protect him and have
a clear view of both the other passenger seats. So
that's that they should know that this is the under
driver undercover cops right behind him. Everybody knows that, and
apparently under this standard operating procedure slipped BROCCOLI's mind. So
Detective Grant pulled his service weapon on the suspects in
the car with him, as was the protocol and what

(45:14):
everybody else was expecting except for Broccoli. Broccoli se he's gone, gone, gone,
and goes click click click eight times, shooting his fellow officer,
his own detective, like from his department. Yeah, so he
he just lights him up, right, So Broccoli finally he
recognized the detective Grant after he squeezed off eight into him,
and he says, Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know it

(45:36):
was you. I thought you were a bad guy. Literal
quote Elizabeth, I'm sorry, I didn't know it was you.
I thought you were a bad guy.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
I am so annoyed when grown ups talk about bad guys,
not so much just when people in lawn forcedness bad guys.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Yeah, Like, are you talking to a six year old?

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Wait? Tell me we didn't hit one percent on this.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Surprisingly, Detective Grant survived the shooting like he's got like
fifty cents and like Tupac's kind of like, you can't
be five eight nine times. I'm taking it anyway. After
a court fight, he and the city settled for six
point five million. I'm sure both Tupac and fifty would
not like me comparing a cop surviving a shooting to
them surviving a shooting. But I was just talking bullets, Elizabeth.
After the officer's body cam footage was released, the Police

(46:19):
Oversight Agency said that Lieutenant Brockley quote made sufferal mistakes
that could have been prevented using common sense, and the
agency recommended broccli be fired. So however, he retired before
that could happen. By the way, this was not Lieutenant
Brockley's first botch shooting. Back in nineteen ninety eight, he
responded to a call at a home in Albuquerque domestic dispute.

(46:40):
A husband was there fighting, or an ex husband fighting
with his ex wife and his neighbor or her neighbor. Rather, I imagine,
Broccoli shows up on the scene, draws his weapon, and
then when he sees a man exit the home with
his hands raised over his head, Broccoli shoots the clearly
unharmed man. The guy survived, Elizabeth, you don't have to
worry and get this. He was charged with assault on

(47:00):
a police officer.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Nope? Okay, So I save the best for last, for.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
What like punching the bullets with his body.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
I guess he came out heated. So twenty seventeen, a
group of undercover Detroit police officers they attempted to arrest
a second group of undercover Detroit police officers at a
drug buy. According to the UPI dateline November twenty seventeen, Detroit, Michigan.
As Detroit Police Chief James Craig said, quote, it is
probably the most embarrassing thing I've seen in this department.

(47:29):
And brother, they had some embarrassing moments. So the story goes.
On November ninth, two officers from the twelfth precinct. Right,
a drug buy posing as drug dealers there to do
a reverse sting. We've talked about those, to bust the buyers. Yeah,
undercover cops wait for the buyers. Two dudes show up
at the drug house. They're the buyers, but really they're
also undercover cops from the eleventh precinct.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
None of the officers know each other and even like, oh,
the two different departments are talking and not talking to.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Two different precincts like with the eleventh in the twelfth department. Yeah,
they should have probably communicated away. The undercover cops posing
his buyers approached the drug house round six pm, just
after the middle of the rush hour. Elizabeth. Outside the
drug house, the two undercover cops they confront these two
people they see outside several doors away from the drug house.
They they were, as I said, the undercover cops from

(48:15):
the twelfth precinct, the under two undercover cops from the
eleventh precinct, the buyers. They order the two other undercover
cops to the ground. There's some resistance to this whole plan,
so one cop pulls a shotgun out and he aims
it at the two other undercover cops. Oh, they're backup.
More cops from the eleventh Precinct come flooding over to
the drug house. They attempt to serve a search warrant,
a right. According to the Chief of Police, that's when

(48:37):
it oh, when it's starting to go terribly wrong. So
the two groups of undercover cops start getting territorial. They're arguing,
shouting at each other. Hot words turn into thrown fists.
A full on brawl breaks out outside the drug house.
Cops are fighting cops. There are twenty four cops involved
in this fractice. Twenty four men I'm assuming mostly men,

(48:57):
are all men. Some of them are fully swatted out
by the way where their urban tactical assault here, and
carrying assault rifles and just beating on each other. And yeah,
they're just shoving each other around and by the way,
when it was all over, two cops are injured in
the melee, so they weren't even really hurting each other,
none seriously hurt anyway. I don't know what the chief
of police said, they appear to be like Keystone cops.

(49:18):
He also had it that at one point during the situation,
one officer grabbed another and then that officer then put
that officer in a headlock. Then punch gets thrown and
the officer punch is back. So they're doing like wrestling
moves on each I mean, it's just ridiculous. So according
to the Chief of Police, the supervisor from the twelfth Precinct,
this cat Elizabeth. He was known to get his guys

(49:38):
fired up before a drug bust. This time they went
a little awry. Appeers that this supervisor did not have
control of situation.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
He thanks Chief.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Chief James Craig again, right, and I quote, it had
a tendency to get the officers from twelve Precinct excited
to the point where we have this very embarrassing situation.
So how did this even happen? Right, Well, the cops
they blamed quote crossed wires with communications. There was no communications.
There was no wires, crossed wires. What the officers they
tried to downplay the incident by saying it could have

(50:09):
been worse. We could have shot each other.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I think this is what those LA Sheriff Department protocols
are aiming to eliminate.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
With the supervision with the central network. Yeah, both the
FBI and the LA Sheriffs, but I hate to give
them credit, but they figured out you can't have people
running around crimes because I'm a cop.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Isn't there also where you For the most part, the
guideline is that you get clearance to do this, but
you don't necessarily have to, so anyone can just go
rogue and decide to do an undercover.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
They have to be an undercover cop. But you can't
just be like an uniform chop and like, I'm an
undercover to know.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
But I'm saying, like, so if you're if you're already
designated an undercover cop, what's to stop you? It sounds
like from the guidelines from being like, well, I've got
this operation, I just haven't told.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Them, yes exactly, that's pretty much you can pretty much
pull off a lot of like kind of wretch active
covering of your ass. Oh yeah, you don't understand who
was I had a c I told me. I'm like,
he's dead, I lost him, he's gone whatever. Yeah, so yeah,
I remember, there's very little oversight, and the judges are like,
I gotta believe him. He's a cop. And also these

(51:14):
are genuine feelings, Elizabeth, so uh, women's yeah, everyone, yeah,
cops feelings. It's blue, it's a blue line. Elizabeth so Uh.
One resident who watched the twenty four cop on cop
fight go down, they were asked for their advice for
the police. Was funny, like you saw it to go down, sir,
what did you? What are your thoughts? You live across

(51:36):
the street from this drug house? What do you think?
What's your life advice for the police? And they said,
and I quote, I don't know, maybe try using the
radios you have on you and in every car, try
talking with each other. Yeah, that's I didn't say that
at all. I paraphrased that. He just said track communicating,
which I think is really the point. So there you go,
Elizabeth Boom, what's our ridiculous takeaway here?

Speaker 2 (51:56):
You know, humans are interesting?

Speaker 1 (51:58):
You could say that against that.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
It's like, how how do we, you know, societally address
the ills that we face. And it's like you obviously
none of us want people abusing drugs and you know,
so this that notion gets spiraled out into all these horrendous.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Like preemptive things. We're gonna we're gonna go out there
and fight crime by doing crime.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Work against the eris the criminals. I don't want it.
I don't want people abusing drugs. But you go ahead
and abuse drugs if you have to.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
I have to. It goes with the Wan shirt.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
And we're very strange. We're very strange. We always miss
sight of like the core mission on stuff.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
You know my standing legalize it.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, that is you stand. Is that your ridiculous take away?

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Take away? You would cut down on so much of this,
you know, like put it in the hands of the
of you know who I wanted to have. I want
to go to like a pharmacist and go can I
get my cocaine? And then we know how the we
know how those protocols go. The pharmacists is like, no, sir,
you don't get cocaine, or yes, sir, you do because
I want that. I don't want cops involved in like
you want to buy some cocaine. No, give it to
pharmacyt that's for all of it. In the taxi regulated,

(53:07):
make it clean. Can tell you you reduce the crime.
In the dark is where the crime occurs. Turn the
lights on. Hire some people who have badges and white
lab coats. Anyway, what's uh else? Before I got for you? Well,
do you want to move for a talkback? Go into
one of those. I'm always you got to talk back
on the queue. Let's see flipping through my talk back
index cards. Let's go with this one.

Speaker 5 (53:30):
Oh god, I love cheat.

Speaker 6 (53:41):
Hey, Saron and Elizabeth, I just listened to your episode
on furries and you asked the question how do furries
attach their tails?

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I know because of Girl Scouts, so weird.

Speaker 6 (53:51):
But anyway, I was recently at a girl Clak campre
and we had a fourth or fifth grader who insisted
on wearing a tail no matter what we're doing, canoeing, hiking, whatever,
she had to have this tail on.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
She used a clip like a clip on tie.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
That helps by I love that answers the question not
help it does help me. It helps me. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
That doesn't help me in my overall assessment.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
You're so funny.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Why did they make me so irritated?

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I do not know. You know, let your freak flag.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
I don't care to do their thing, but like you know,
if you feel like you got to wear a tail
when you're rafting, like.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
I always going on with this kid, it's whatever, let
them have their tails. It's like Dumbo in like the
little cricket, Jimmy cricket right, let him have Jimmy Cricket
or the feather. I don't care either, get one imaginary
creature or a feather.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
I don't care. All right, Lea's always uh. You can
find us online if you'd like some more of this
everydics crime run social media's you have. We have our website,
Ridiculous Crime dot com and obviously we love you talk back,
so please hit up the iHeart app, download it, leave
us a talk back and maybe you'll hear your voice
here and also emails if you like Ridiculous Crime at
gmail dot com and started out. Dear producer, d there

(55:04):
you go, Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next crime.
Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizad mc dutton and Zaron Burnett,
produced and edited by the Man of a Thousand Disguises
Dave Cousten, and starring Analice Rutger as Judith. Research is
by care Beert Comrades, Marissa Brown and Andrea Song Sharpened Tear.

(55:27):
Our theme song is by Thomas Mando. I love street Food,
Lee and Travis nothing better than street Meat Dutton. The
host wardrobe provided by Botany five hundred guests Harry makeup
by Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are Ben Our
favorite Detroit cop is Axel Foley Bowling and my favorite
Beverly Hills cop is also Axel Foley, Noel.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Brown, Ridicus, Why Say It one more Time?

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Riudiquious Crime Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four
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