January 11, 2022 • 21 mins
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home.
On Ruthie's Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers.
Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks.
Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation.
For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/
Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favourite shows.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to River Cafe Table for a production of I
Heart Radio and Adam I Studios. Everyone knows Tracy Allman
as a brilliant woman who acts, sings, makes us laugh,
produces and directs work which makes us think differently about
(00:23):
the world we live in. I'm lucky enough to know
Tracy is all of the above, but also as a friend,
a mother, and quite simply the sweetest person ever in
a time of doubt and indecision. One of the best
yeses I've ever had was when Tracy agreed to sing
(00:46):
our Love is here to Stay at the River Cafe
thirtieth birthday party. Our love is here to stay together.
We're going along long way in time. I think I'm
Rose mclooney. The Rockies may crumble, GI brought to may Tumble.
(01:10):
They're only made of clay. But I sang, I love
is here to stay. I love the River cap Have
you ever seen one? Five people cry? As my guest,
(01:35):
Tracy and I will talk about food and memories, life, work,
family and friendship. Two women to friends whose love is
for sure definitely here to stay. So likewise, very very
nice to be with you, and you're going to read
(01:59):
your favorite recipe, which is so interesting that you chose
that recipe because not everybody knows that. Many people haven't
had it, and you chose it is yours. So would
you like to read the recipe for a gretti with
tomato and pan grattato. Okay, so I tell you why
I chose it, or shall I read everything? I just
(02:19):
love this and I've only ever had a gretty at
your restaurant. And then when I said I was going
to read this, and I didn't know where a gretty
was from, and I wish I could find it. As
I was talking to literally, I walked into a shop
and Fancer, It's like samphire a little bit, isn't it.
It's like a asparagus. That is, it's a river, it
grows along the bank and it has that grassy and
(02:43):
you always you know you have it. So it's very simple.
But I like vegetables and I like Italian vegetables, and
this is just a very very simple thing. But it's
just so you and I love it. A gretti with
tomato and pan grattato serve six to eight, or if
I'm around, serves me six. A gretti one stale chibbater loaf,
(03:10):
olive oil, slow cooked tomato sauce. Snap off the bottom
stalks from the aggretti just below the long leafy tops.
Pulse chopped the bread into bread crumbs. Heat some olive
oil in a frying pan and shallow fry the bread
crumbs until they are golden. Lift out with a slotted spoon,
(03:31):
and drain well on kitchen paper. Warm the tomato sauce.
Blanche the aggretti in a pan of rapidly boiling salted
water for three minutes or until tender. Drain and dry
on kitchen paper to remove all the excess water. Put
the aggretti on a plate and spoon over the tomato sauce.
(03:53):
Sprinkle with the bread crumbs, and serve while warm. Delicious.
M hmm, delicious. Interesting that you tells us? And who
said you found it in your local shop? You know,
and there it was? And how food has changed? But
when did you grow up with Italian food? My father,
who sadly died when I was six, was Polish and
(04:15):
so he liked lots of pickled things and soured creams,
and he was always putting things under the sink, and
you know, fermenting things and goose at Christmas and very
complex sort of chocolate coffee nut taught Christmas. There was
that sort of food he liked. And my mother was
(04:36):
a South London lady who was very simple food. Always
grew her own vegetables, and I grew my own vegetables
and I I wasn't allowed sugar or fast food and
I didn't like it. And I would just run home
from school and pick the spinaches that we planted, and radishes,
(04:56):
and I like greens. And she was a simple cook,
but very good because she was like, you know, wartime
kid and dig for victory, you know, sort of worked
on the land. And she just really liked good, simple food,
my mother. But your father died when you were six,
which was very young, but you have a strong memory
of him, as you say pickles. And is that a
(05:18):
strong association for you of your father with food and
his cooking, Yes, because it was unusual food and when
you're fermenting things under the kitchen sink, it's kind of
strange when your friends come home. And he liked you know,
cucumber and dill and lemon, and I remember big goose.
He would make big goose and kind of Polish sausage dish.
(05:41):
It took ages to make. Everything in Poland takes days
to make. It's very complex, slow cooked. Staff was born
in Poland's plat Skis, you know, all sorts of He
was born in Poland. He came over during the war.
He was at Dunkirk with the Free Polish Army and
was one the soldiers that was rescued and brought to
(06:02):
England and he never went back. And then he was
a lawyer and an interpreter and he had a business
in Slough in in England and near London, and he
was very successful and worked too hard and sadly died
very early. But yeah, he was quite a guy. And
it's interesting how I think people who have immigrated from
(06:23):
other cultures, from countries, they remember those smells and the
food of their family, bringing their culture to this country.
And how much richer we are because of it. Rye
bread and of course caveats. It was cheaper back then, yeah,
And when I first had a bit of money to spend,
I would buy cavia and I never did drugs or
(06:45):
drink girls. I was a cavia had like a five
dollar a week addiction. And now it's so expensive back
in the eighties you could still get iran in caviar.
I love caveo. Yeah, And did your mother when she
cook with you? Did you cook with her? She was
just as I say. She wasn't fancy cooked, just very simple,
very would be we would like for her and me.
(07:07):
I'm still like this today. A meal for me is
I'll buy mushrooms, water, cress, radishes, I don't know, a
piece of mozzarella and some strawberries, and that's a meal
to me. Did you go to restaurants whatever? No, I
couldn't afford it. You would have nice picnics in the
park and just fresh things and growing our vegetables. And no,
we never ate out. And then remember your first when
(07:29):
that kind of changed for you. Yeah, I was some sixteen.
I left school at sixteen and I went to Berlin
as a dancer with a big group of wonderful fun people,
and we used to eat out because we lived in
I lived in a room or two other girls, and
for some reason we used to go to an Italian
restaurant in Berlin. And remember that you have pizza funghi
(07:51):
a spaghetti cabinar as. It was very very good, And
that was glamorous to me and have always have a
bottle of lead from milsh with Italian food. But I
remember that starting to eat out that way. And as
a dancer, did you find there's a discipline that you
had to have to eating? Did you find that you
could perform if you'd had a night out the night
before or that you know, No, we didn't eat to
(08:14):
like two in the morning, where this was crazy. We
were like we used to go out after the show
and come get in after ten in the morning. Oh yeah,
we were pretty wild. But but we had a wonderful
girl with us, a dancer called Sarah Brown who went
on to become a professional chef. I think she wrote
books and had her own television programs here and she
used to cook for us. So we had this amazing
(08:34):
woman cooking for us there about four months, five months
And was at your first real trip away from how Yeah?
I loved it. Did you Berlin in the seventies? It
was so sexy and fun and crazy and decadent, and
(08:55):
I loved it. Leaving home. Do you remember your routine
of sort of how you would work and then eat
and cook or I never really lived on my own.
I am I met somebody. I was engaged when I
was quite young. But if I did eat on my own,
(09:16):
which I I did because I like this strange stuff
as I keep going back to water cross almonds, blueberries
even then, just really simple slice mushrooms, avocados, and it
was hard getting avocados. Even I seeds to stay with
my friend in the East End and you'd say to
the green grocer there, hello, do you have an avocado that?
When I was at Christmas Love not much call from
(09:36):
some notice leaks. I was looking for an avocado. Really,
no leaks, no avocados. Why one weakness that everybody always
sold in England and they still do. It's bird's eye
chicken pie. I think they're about a pound ruthie and
they're just it's something about the short cross pastry people
I know, famous chefs, English chefs talk about these birds
(09:58):
eye chicken pies and they're delicious. There's nothing like one
of those with some gravy on it and some Brussels
sprouts when you cold in November and you come them.
I still like a bird's eye chicken pie. And that's
the sort of gosh, that's the craziest thing I eat
normally I'm very simple organic, you know. I guess my
life started when I met my husband, Alan, who you knew,
(10:22):
and he really took me to fantastic He's took me
to the Royal Crescent and bath, you know, and we've
had lobsters and we still love the Caprice. That room
was wonderful. There's photographs and great food, interesting food places
like the Horn of Plenty in Devon. There was always
like people that happed to rest. Yeah. Woman chef was yeah.
(10:45):
And you go there and there'd be this wonderful old
country house and a cat having kittens in the in
the sort of front hallway who come in and they'd
say that. We'd find places where they'd say things like
death is a little nervous of her custards. Yes, she
has been terribly nervous of our custards today. And you'd
say the custards marvelous deaf and you should say, oh,
is it really, Yes, it is. And then I went
(11:06):
to live in l A with Alan. I really had
lived in America for thirty years and Los Angeles was
terrible for food. It was terrible iceberg, lettuce and burgers,
and you know, just now it's wonderful there's not all
sorts of organic markets and you know farmers markets. But
in the ages it was terrible. It was like Vegas
(11:26):
food and New York too. Yeah, it was like they'd
have Italian forward, your wine red, you want white sorce,
you want clams, You're like eggplant? Why do you want darling?
You want an eggplant? Poimber John. But now, of course
it was you know, now food is wonderful. But yeah,
it was all very heavy sources. But when you went
to La were you working? What were you doing? Yes? What?
(11:48):
I was pregnant and I had my daughter Mabel in
six and then I did a television shows for a
long time, and I would always spend the summers here
and couldn't wait to get to We got a sudda
near a lot when the kids were small, because the
Italians just love children. What about when you go to
a restaurant with somebody, what do you look for in
a restaurant? What do you like about a restaurant? I
(12:11):
don't eat out a lot. Really. My daughter is a
wonderful cook, and her and her husband Harry make wonderful things.
They're all sorts. He'll make the best dispatcho in the world.
It'll take him hours and they'll only be two cups,
and you go, Harry, I could just eat this forever.
My daughter's neighbor is Simon Hopkinson. And to have Simon
(12:34):
Hoppy knock on your door and give you some salmon
patty and some dispacho and some rhubarb crumble, we get
very spoilt by him. You are very loved in the
River Cafe because you form relationships. I've seen you. I've
seen the way you are, you know, with the waiter,
the way you have You don't need to be their friend,
but you are respectful and your kind. But there's some
(12:56):
You've got some wonderful staff I've known over the years.
And I like bessam Or like teasing him about his
trousers because he wears pink trousers. He wears yellow trousers,
and I always say, you wear raspberry trousers. Person, you know,
start jumping around to Coldplay records and to get a slap,
you know, and we just do silly things, and you know,
(13:16):
you know, I knew Rose wonderful later great partner. I
met Rose Gray in New York in the eighties, and
I remember going to Nell's Campbell whose friend of mine,
Australian NUCA her nightclub, and about three in the morning,
she said, Darling, let's get row. Are you hungry and
(13:36):
you think through in the morning, but yes, of course
I am. Now let's get this is wonderful. Lady's going
to make us something to eat. And Rose was so quiet,
and she started bringing out these little samples of things
that were so divine. I'm like, wow, was amazing. And
we just all sat and talked and you know, were
saying those things like you should have your own restaurant here.
(13:58):
You're brilliant. You think that's how it all started. She
was with Nell and it Nels in New York, and
then when Rose decided to come back, that's when we
we started the River Cafe. I called her up and said,
I think there's this little site in the middle of nowhere.
S would go have a look, and we did and
the rest is kind of history. So we did that.
(14:20):
She was just brilliant. There must be a lot of
egos in the food business. I think that when I
came into this profession, people warned me that it would
be competitive, that people would be other chefs would be
resentful that we were two women who didn't know very
much that we started from scratch as it were, and um,
(14:43):
I found it so kind inclusive and the people, I
think the people who were starting then, the Jeremy King's,
the Sally Clark's, the rolyi Le's, that Simon Hopkinson's were
of a different that we wanted to say we can
do great food, we can do great atmosphere, and we
can be respectful. You know. The idea of the old
(15:03):
fashioned chef was something we did not want to be.
And then when Rose died in two thousand and ten, Um,
it was staggering to see the support that I had.
You know that suddenly a chef would arrive and you know,
I say, do you have time for a coffee, or
a manager would come and say let's sit outside of
a drink and somebody's accounts managers say do you need
(15:25):
some help? Or Georgia local Telly Jeremy King said you
need a recipe. I mean, it was very, very supportive.
So I think it hasn't been my experience of ego. Um,
you know, I'm sure it's there, but if you surround yourself,
I'm sure it's the same thing in the theater is
who you become friends with. Tell me about what you're
(15:52):
working on. What is your well, I'm I've had some
nice things to do the last few years. I did
Mrs Amy a Coe with Cape Blanchet. That was on
ex That was all about I played Betty for a Dan,
which is a wonderful person to get to be a
sort of iconic American feminist, and um, I love doing that.
I was in Canada for like ten months and that
(16:14):
was a long shoot, so I spent a long time
there and then, um, well then this whole lockdown think happened.
I've done not doing my shows at the moment. I'm
I'm sixty one now, you know. I just not that
I'm old or anything. I just want to do stuff
that I want to do. I always see what comes up,
you know. I love being in London, more near my
(16:36):
daughter and my grandchildren. And I had a long marriage.
I was married thirty years. My husband died seven years
ago now, and it was really hard to become someone
I'm you know, I didn't want to become really, I mean,
I liked the version I could be of myself with him.
You saw him many times, Alan and we had a
(16:57):
wonderful life together. And we were together, and I've had
to really adjust to being another version of myself. But
I'm doing good, doing good, and I'm happy and he'd
be happy. Um, he loved his food. I remember, I remember.
I can close my eyes and see him right now. Yes, Um,
he loved it here. And we you know, we came
(17:19):
here with the children when they were tiny, and they
used to roll around while we were eating our food.
There was always so great to bring the kids here.
Mabel had her thirtieth birthday here. You know. I think
back to that birthday when you sang. And there are
two things we can do. I would love you to
tell me about your comfort food when you think of
Alan or you feel somehow less than hungry when we
(17:42):
sometimes I just need that bit of comfort. Is there
a food that you would turn to? Well? I do
like my chicken, pale, my birds. I haven't had one
of those in a while. Um, what's my comfort food?
M I love chocolate. I love really good a two
percent chocolate, but it has to be in the freezer.
(18:03):
I put my chocolate in the freezer and I break
off one square every day, and I think it's very
good for female brains. And I can eat a piece
of dark chocolate and then I can write and write, Okay,
well that's a that's beautiful. An I love chocolate Nemesis,
the chocolate Nemesis. The always goes Nemesis Nemesis, and everything
(18:29):
goes like Marsin's Casey film, you know when they're taking
drugs and good fellas Nemesis. It's ridiculous, Thank you, Jasey.
The other thing we could do before we say goodbye
and go have a piece of chocolate Nemesis is to
sing a song. And would you like to sing your song?
I think our listeners should know. I had a very
(18:50):
very brief career as a pop singer in the early eighties.
I had a wonderful song called they Don't Know About Us,
written by the late great Kirsty McColl so. I sing
sort of like Mini Mouse, You've taken Helius. I know
you were so sweet and you rang me up and
he said for your thirty and if I said, what
would I sing? And I thought, why wouldn't ask me
to sing? And I was so fluttered and I said,
(19:12):
watched I sing, and you went, do you know the song?
I like? You were on the phone. You went, it's
very clear. Our love is here to stay, not for years,
but ever and a day. The radio and the telephone
(19:33):
and the movie is that we know may just be
passing fancies and in time may go, But oh my dear,
our love is here to stay together. We're going a
long long way in time. The rockies may crumble. You
(19:59):
brought him a tumble. They're only in madal Clay. But
I'm saying all this is here to stay, stay. I
love the River Cat and we love you d thank
(20:22):
you very much. I love you to do this in
past this holiday season. If you can't come to the
River Cafe, the River Cafe will come to you. Our
beautiful gift boxes are full of ingredients we cook with
(20:44):
and design objects we have in our homes. River Cafe
Olive oil, Tuscan chocolates, Venetian glasses of Florentine, Christmas cake
made in our pastry kitchen and more. We ship them everywhere.
To find out more or to play your order, visit
shop the River Cafe dot co dot UK. River Cafe
(21:08):
Table four is a production of I Heart Radio and
Adam I Studios. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to River Cafe Table for a production of I
Heart Radio and Adam I Studios. Everyone knows Tracy Allman
as a brilliant woman who acts, sings, makes us laugh,
produces and directs work which makes us think differently about
(00:23):
the world we live in. I'm lucky enough to know
Tracy is all of the above, but also as a friend,
a mother, and quite simply the sweetest person ever in
a time of doubt and indecision. One of the best
yeses I've ever had was when Tracy agreed to sing
(00:46):
our Love is here to Stay at the River Cafe
thirtieth birthday party. Our love is here to stay together.
We're going along long way in time. I think I'm
Rose mclooney. The Rockies may crumble, GI brought to may Tumble.
(01:10):
They're only made of clay. But I sang, I love
is here to stay. I love the River cap Have
you ever seen one? Five people cry? As my guest,
(01:35):
Tracy and I will talk about food and memories, life, work,
family and friendship. Two women to friends whose love is
for sure definitely here to stay. So likewise, very very
nice to be with you, and you're going to read
(01:59):
your favorite recipe, which is so interesting that you chose
that recipe because not everybody knows that. Many people haven't
had it, and you chose it is yours. So would
you like to read the recipe for a gretti with
tomato and pan grattato. Okay, so I tell you why
I chose it, or shall I read everything? I just
(02:19):
love this and I've only ever had a gretty at
your restaurant. And then when I said I was going
to read this, and I didn't know where a gretty
was from, and I wish I could find it. As
I was talking to literally, I walked into a shop
and Fancer, It's like samphire a little bit, isn't it.
It's like a asparagus. That is, it's a river, it
grows along the bank and it has that grassy and
(02:43):
you always you know you have it. So it's very simple.
But I like vegetables and I like Italian vegetables, and
this is just a very very simple thing. But it's
just so you and I love it. A gretti with
tomato and pan grattato serve six to eight, or if
I'm around, serves me six. A gretti one stale chibbater loaf,
(03:10):
olive oil, slow cooked tomato sauce. Snap off the bottom
stalks from the aggretti just below the long leafy tops.
Pulse chopped the bread into bread crumbs. Heat some olive
oil in a frying pan and shallow fry the bread
crumbs until they are golden. Lift out with a slotted spoon,
(03:31):
and drain well on kitchen paper. Warm the tomato sauce.
Blanche the aggretti in a pan of rapidly boiling salted
water for three minutes or until tender. Drain and dry
on kitchen paper to remove all the excess water. Put
the aggretti on a plate and spoon over the tomato sauce.
(03:53):
Sprinkle with the bread crumbs, and serve while warm. Delicious.
M hmm, delicious. Interesting that you tells us? And who
said you found it in your local shop? You know,
and there it was? And how food has changed? But
when did you grow up with Italian food? My father,
who sadly died when I was six, was Polish and
(04:15):
so he liked lots of pickled things and soured creams,
and he was always putting things under the sink, and
you know, fermenting things and goose at Christmas and very
complex sort of chocolate coffee nut taught Christmas. There was
that sort of food he liked. And my mother was
(04:36):
a South London lady who was very simple food. Always
grew her own vegetables, and I grew my own vegetables
and I I wasn't allowed sugar or fast food and
I didn't like it. And I would just run home
from school and pick the spinaches that we planted, and radishes,
(04:56):
and I like greens. And she was a simple cook,
but very good because she was like, you know, wartime
kid and dig for victory, you know, sort of worked
on the land. And she just really liked good, simple food,
my mother. But your father died when you were six,
which was very young, but you have a strong memory
of him, as you say pickles. And is that a
(05:18):
strong association for you of your father with food and
his cooking, Yes, because it was unusual food and when
you're fermenting things under the kitchen sink, it's kind of
strange when your friends come home. And he liked you know,
cucumber and dill and lemon, and I remember big goose.
He would make big goose and kind of Polish sausage dish.
(05:41):
It took ages to make. Everything in Poland takes days
to make. It's very complex, slow cooked. Staff was born
in Poland's plat Skis, you know, all sorts of He
was born in Poland. He came over during the war.
He was at Dunkirk with the Free Polish Army and
was one the soldiers that was rescued and brought to
(06:02):
England and he never went back. And then he was
a lawyer and an interpreter and he had a business
in Slough in in England and near London, and he
was very successful and worked too hard and sadly died
very early. But yeah, he was quite a guy. And
it's interesting how I think people who have immigrated from
(06:23):
other cultures, from countries, they remember those smells and the
food of their family, bringing their culture to this country.
And how much richer we are because of it. Rye
bread and of course caveats. It was cheaper back then, yeah,
And when I first had a bit of money to spend,
I would buy cavia and I never did drugs or
(06:45):
drink girls. I was a cavia had like a five
dollar a week addiction. And now it's so expensive back
in the eighties you could still get iran in caviar.
I love caveo. Yeah, And did your mother when she
cook with you? Did you cook with her? She was
just as I say. She wasn't fancy cooked, just very simple,
very would be we would like for her and me.
(07:07):
I'm still like this today. A meal for me is
I'll buy mushrooms, water, cress, radishes, I don't know, a
piece of mozzarella and some strawberries, and that's a meal
to me. Did you go to restaurants whatever? No, I
couldn't afford it. You would have nice picnics in the
park and just fresh things and growing our vegetables. And no,
we never ate out. And then remember your first when
(07:29):
that kind of changed for you. Yeah, I was some sixteen.
I left school at sixteen and I went to Berlin
as a dancer with a big group of wonderful fun people,
and we used to eat out because we lived in
I lived in a room or two other girls, and
for some reason we used to go to an Italian
restaurant in Berlin. And remember that you have pizza funghi
(07:51):
a spaghetti cabinar as. It was very very good, And
that was glamorous to me and have always have a
bottle of lead from milsh with Italian food. But I
remember that starting to eat out that way. And as
a dancer, did you find there's a discipline that you
had to have to eating? Did you find that you
could perform if you'd had a night out the night
before or that you know, No, we didn't eat to
(08:14):
like two in the morning, where this was crazy. We
were like we used to go out after the show
and come get in after ten in the morning. Oh yeah,
we were pretty wild. But but we had a wonderful
girl with us, a dancer called Sarah Brown who went
on to become a professional chef. I think she wrote
books and had her own television programs here and she
used to cook for us. So we had this amazing
(08:34):
woman cooking for us there about four months, five months
And was at your first real trip away from how Yeah?
I loved it. Did you Berlin in the seventies? It
was so sexy and fun and crazy and decadent, and
(08:55):
I loved it. Leaving home. Do you remember your routine
of sort of how you would work and then eat
and cook or I never really lived on my own.
I am I met somebody. I was engaged when I
was quite young. But if I did eat on my own,
(09:16):
which I I did because I like this strange stuff
as I keep going back to water cross almonds, blueberries
even then, just really simple slice mushrooms, avocados, and it
was hard getting avocados. Even I seeds to stay with
my friend in the East End and you'd say to
the green grocer there, hello, do you have an avocado that?
When I was at Christmas Love not much call from
(09:36):
some notice leaks. I was looking for an avocado. Really,
no leaks, no avocados. Why one weakness that everybody always
sold in England and they still do. It's bird's eye
chicken pie. I think they're about a pound ruthie and
they're just it's something about the short cross pastry people
I know, famous chefs, English chefs talk about these birds
(09:58):
eye chicken pies and they're delicious. There's nothing like one
of those with some gravy on it and some Brussels
sprouts when you cold in November and you come them.
I still like a bird's eye chicken pie. And that's
the sort of gosh, that's the craziest thing I eat
normally I'm very simple organic, you know. I guess my
life started when I met my husband, Alan, who you knew,
(10:22):
and he really took me to fantastic He's took me
to the Royal Crescent and bath, you know, and we've
had lobsters and we still love the Caprice. That room
was wonderful. There's photographs and great food, interesting food places
like the Horn of Plenty in Devon. There was always
like people that happed to rest. Yeah. Woman chef was yeah.
(10:45):
And you go there and there'd be this wonderful old
country house and a cat having kittens in the in
the sort of front hallway who come in and they'd
say that. We'd find places where they'd say things like
death is a little nervous of her custards. Yes, she
has been terribly nervous of our custards today. And you'd
say the custards marvelous deaf and you should say, oh,
is it really, Yes, it is. And then I went
(11:06):
to live in l A with Alan. I really had
lived in America for thirty years and Los Angeles was
terrible for food. It was terrible iceberg, lettuce and burgers,
and you know, just now it's wonderful there's not all
sorts of organic markets and you know farmers markets. But
in the ages it was terrible. It was like Vegas
(11:26):
food and New York too. Yeah, it was like they'd
have Italian forward, your wine red, you want white sorce,
you want clams, You're like eggplant? Why do you want darling?
You want an eggplant? Poimber John. But now, of course
it was you know, now food is wonderful. But yeah,
it was all very heavy sources. But when you went
to La were you working? What were you doing? Yes? What?
(11:48):
I was pregnant and I had my daughter Mabel in
six and then I did a television shows for a
long time, and I would always spend the summers here
and couldn't wait to get to We got a sudda
near a lot when the kids were small, because the
Italians just love children. What about when you go to
a restaurant with somebody, what do you look for in
a restaurant? What do you like about a restaurant? I
(12:11):
don't eat out a lot. Really. My daughter is a
wonderful cook, and her and her husband Harry make wonderful things.
They're all sorts. He'll make the best dispatcho in the world.
It'll take him hours and they'll only be two cups,
and you go, Harry, I could just eat this forever.
My daughter's neighbor is Simon Hopkinson. And to have Simon
(12:34):
Hoppy knock on your door and give you some salmon
patty and some dispacho and some rhubarb crumble, we get
very spoilt by him. You are very loved in the
River Cafe because you form relationships. I've seen you. I've
seen the way you are, you know, with the waiter,
the way you have You don't need to be their friend,
but you are respectful and your kind. But there's some
(12:56):
You've got some wonderful staff I've known over the years.
And I like bessam Or like teasing him about his
trousers because he wears pink trousers. He wears yellow trousers,
and I always say, you wear raspberry trousers. Person, you know,
start jumping around to Coldplay records and to get a slap,
you know, and we just do silly things, and you know,
(13:16):
you know, I knew Rose wonderful later great partner. I
met Rose Gray in New York in the eighties, and
I remember going to Nell's Campbell whose friend of mine,
Australian NUCA her nightclub, and about three in the morning,
she said, Darling, let's get row. Are you hungry and
(13:36):
you think through in the morning, but yes, of course
I am. Now let's get this is wonderful. Lady's going
to make us something to eat. And Rose was so quiet,
and she started bringing out these little samples of things
that were so divine. I'm like, wow, was amazing. And
we just all sat and talked and you know, were
saying those things like you should have your own restaurant here.
(13:58):
You're brilliant. You think that's how it all started. She
was with Nell and it Nels in New York, and
then when Rose decided to come back, that's when we
we started the River Cafe. I called her up and said,
I think there's this little site in the middle of nowhere.
S would go have a look, and we did and
the rest is kind of history. So we did that.
(14:20):
She was just brilliant. There must be a lot of
egos in the food business. I think that when I
came into this profession, people warned me that it would
be competitive, that people would be other chefs would be
resentful that we were two women who didn't know very
much that we started from scratch as it were, and um,
(14:43):
I found it so kind inclusive and the people, I
think the people who were starting then, the Jeremy King's,
the Sally Clark's, the rolyi Le's, that Simon Hopkinson's were
of a different that we wanted to say we can
do great food, we can do great atmosphere, and we
can be respectful. You know. The idea of the old
(15:03):
fashioned chef was something we did not want to be.
And then when Rose died in two thousand and ten, Um,
it was staggering to see the support that I had.
You know that suddenly a chef would arrive and you know,
I say, do you have time for a coffee, or
a manager would come and say let's sit outside of
a drink and somebody's accounts managers say do you need
(15:25):
some help? Or Georgia local Telly Jeremy King said you
need a recipe. I mean, it was very, very supportive.
So I think it hasn't been my experience of ego. Um,
you know, I'm sure it's there, but if you surround yourself,
I'm sure it's the same thing in the theater is
who you become friends with. Tell me about what you're
(15:52):
working on. What is your well, I'm I've had some
nice things to do the last few years. I did
Mrs Amy a Coe with Cape Blanchet. That was on
ex That was all about I played Betty for a Dan,
which is a wonderful person to get to be a
sort of iconic American feminist, and um, I love doing that.
I was in Canada for like ten months and that
(16:14):
was a long shoot, so I spent a long time
there and then, um, well then this whole lockdown think happened.
I've done not doing my shows at the moment. I'm
I'm sixty one now, you know. I just not that
I'm old or anything. I just want to do stuff
that I want to do. I always see what comes up,
you know. I love being in London, more near my
(16:36):
daughter and my grandchildren. And I had a long marriage.
I was married thirty years. My husband died seven years
ago now, and it was really hard to become someone
I'm you know, I didn't want to become really, I mean,
I liked the version I could be of myself with him.
You saw him many times, Alan and we had a
(16:57):
wonderful life together. And we were together, and I've had
to really adjust to being another version of myself. But
I'm doing good, doing good, and I'm happy and he'd
be happy. Um, he loved his food. I remember, I remember.
I can close my eyes and see him right now. Yes, Um,
he loved it here. And we you know, we came
(17:19):
here with the children when they were tiny, and they
used to roll around while we were eating our food.
There was always so great to bring the kids here.
Mabel had her thirtieth birthday here. You know. I think
back to that birthday when you sang. And there are
two things we can do. I would love you to
tell me about your comfort food when you think of
Alan or you feel somehow less than hungry when we
(17:42):
sometimes I just need that bit of comfort. Is there
a food that you would turn to? Well? I do
like my chicken, pale, my birds. I haven't had one
of those in a while. Um, what's my comfort food?
M I love chocolate. I love really good a two
percent chocolate, but it has to be in the freezer.
(18:03):
I put my chocolate in the freezer and I break
off one square every day, and I think it's very
good for female brains. And I can eat a piece
of dark chocolate and then I can write and write, Okay,
well that's a that's beautiful. An I love chocolate Nemesis,
the chocolate Nemesis. The always goes Nemesis Nemesis, and everything
(18:29):
goes like Marsin's Casey film, you know when they're taking
drugs and good fellas Nemesis. It's ridiculous, Thank you, Jasey.
The other thing we could do before we say goodbye
and go have a piece of chocolate Nemesis is to
sing a song. And would you like to sing your song?
I think our listeners should know. I had a very
(18:50):
very brief career as a pop singer in the early eighties.
I had a wonderful song called they Don't Know About Us,
written by the late great Kirsty McColl so. I sing
sort of like Mini Mouse, You've taken Helius. I know
you were so sweet and you rang me up and
he said for your thirty and if I said, what
would I sing? And I thought, why wouldn't ask me
to sing? And I was so fluttered and I said,
(19:12):
watched I sing, and you went, do you know the song?
I like? You were on the phone. You went, it's
very clear. Our love is here to stay, not for years,
but ever and a day. The radio and the telephone
(19:33):
and the movie is that we know may just be
passing fancies and in time may go, But oh my dear,
our love is here to stay together. We're going a
long long way in time. The rockies may crumble. You
(19:59):
brought him a tumble. They're only in madal Clay. But
I'm saying all this is here to stay, stay. I
love the River Cat and we love you d thank
(20:22):
you very much. I love you to do this in
past this holiday season. If you can't come to the
River Cafe, the River Cafe will come to you. Our
beautiful gift boxes are full of ingredients we cook with
(20:44):
and design objects we have in our homes. River Cafe
Olive oil, Tuscan chocolates, Venetian glasses of Florentine, Christmas cake
made in our pastry kitchen and more. We ship them everywhere.
To find out more or to play your order, visit
shop the River Cafe dot co dot UK. River Cafe
(21:08):
Table four is a production of I Heart Radio and
Adam I Studios. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Ruth Rogers
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!