July 31, 2023 • 43 mins
In September, The River cafe will be 36 years old. One of the pleasures of having a restaurant for so long is watching the second generation—now even a third generation—of our early customers grow up.
Adwoa Aboah's parents, Charles and Camilla, have been part of the River Cafe Family since we opened. And Adwoa has gone from a child eating pasta, butter and cheese, and then playing on the garden outside, to not only one of the world's foremost fashion models, but a formidable woman focussed on the political and social issues so relevant now, especially to women. After her own struggles with mental health, she founded the organisation Gurls Talk —a safe space for girls to access resources, share experiences, create community, and feel less alone.
It is both moving and exciting to have her here today, past and present, child and adult, friend and family.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and
Adamized Studios.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
In September, the River Cafe will be thirty six years old,
and one of the great joys of having a restaurant
for so long is watching the second generation and now
even a third generation of her early customers grow up.
Adwa's parents, Charles Boa and Camilla Luther, have been part
of the River Cafe family since reopened, and ad was
(00:31):
gone from being a young child ordering pasta, butter and
cheese and then playing in the garden space outside with
her friends to a formidable woman focused on the political
and social issues relevant today. After her own struggles with
mental health and to support young women's wellbeing, she founded
(00:52):
the organization Girls Talk, providing a safe space for girls
to access resources, share experiences, create community, and feel less alone,
a place to escape the chaos of the every day.
I think a beautiful phrase today. Ed was just come
from the kitchen grilling scallops and frying zucchini, and she's
going to tell us what she learned and read the
(01:14):
recipe so you can cook this at home. It's both
moving and exciting for me to have ed.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We're here oh, oh, so nice.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So you've been in the kitchen then in the River
Cafee kitchen, which do you remember coming here all.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
The time all the time Ronnie and Johnathan? Yeah, they
used to take us all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And you've just been in the kitchen, and so you
watched your request for the recipe with scallops grilled scallops
with chili and zucchini.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
My name's Adriana and I'm a chepher at the River
Cafe and today I'm cooking some scallops on the grill.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Thing that now, Joan, I'm not cooking anything.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
You can cook it with me if you want.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
We put them in the center of the grill because
that's the hardest place.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
How long do you have to leave them on fard?
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Not very long at all. So you just keep them,
don't move them around, keep them where they are, and
then he'll start kind.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Of coming off.
Speaker 5 (02:18):
You can kind of look at the bottom and see
how they're cooking, because if you move them too quickly
then they'll stick.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Oh wow, And.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Then we're gonna get some pretty may I think, Harry,
you're doing pretty right? Can you drop some pretty for us?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So we have two recipes. One. I think it's really
for the batter for the zucchini, and then quite simple the.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Scales scallops and zucchini. Pretty four firm ripe zucchini, one
litera sunflower oil for the batter, one cup all purpose flour,
three tablespoons extra virgin olive oil. Get always get really
confused that the tablespoon and teaspoon.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
There is a difference, like.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
The way it's written.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, because it goes that's tablespoon tsp is.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Three tablespoons extra virgin olive oil, three tablespoons warm water,
three egg whites, scallops sixteen shells sea scallops, two lemons,
extra virgin olival Cut the zucchini into ovals, then into
thick matchsticks for the batter. Sift the flour into a bowl,
(03:36):
making a well in the center.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Pour in the olive oil and stuff.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Loosen the paste by slowly adding enough warm water to
make a batter the consistency of heavy cream.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Leave for thirty minutes.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Heat the oil in a high sided pan to three
hundred and seventy five degrees. Beat the egg whites until stiff,
and fold into the batter. Dip zucchini, then fry in
batches in hot oil until golden and crisp. Serve immediately scallops.
Heat the grill. Season the scallops very generously on both
(04:10):
sides with salt and pepper. Actually she said only salt
and then pepper at the end. Don't put the pepper on, Yeah, don't, Okay,
it burns quickly, so put the pepper on after place
on the grill until lightly brown and crisp. Then turn
over the grill on the other side. The scallop should
be tender on the inside and crisp on the surface.
(04:31):
Serve with lemon and a drizzle of olive oil. And
I had some chili online, so.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
If you have to place it all up.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Yeah, that's the really fun part about working here is
that you get to plate all of your.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Food because well, who would you usually do.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
That in like another so you bring it up to
the past, and maybe someone on the past would plate it,
but here you get to do it and it gives you.
I mean, for me, it's really satisfying.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Water.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Wow, I'm coming here for dinner.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Tell me about going to Vogue with Edward, because we
did when Edward Nfl became the editor. We did the party,
Remember that we had a party for him. I was
a great party. You were the cover for his first year.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
That was mad, that Vogue party. I remember that like
it was yesterday. I remember us driving here and I,
you know, Edward, and I still laugh about it now.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
It's like it wasn't naivety.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I think it was just this we were just doing
something that felt very special to both of us. It
was like this, we were embarking on this new journey,
and it wasn't necessarily that we were. We were completely
naive to how the world was going to embrace it,
you know, not only just people in fashion but worldwide.
(05:58):
You know, it really went you know what I mean, I think.
And so as we kind of pulled up, I pulled up,
I can't remember who I was in the car with me.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
It was like my mom and dad and system.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
We pulled up the Shepherd's Bush roundabout and it was
projected on Shepherd's Bush round about.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
What the hell is going on?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
And I looked on my phone and it was just
like going mad and I actually like broke out into hives.
I was like, oh my god, this is so much.
I don't even know how to deal with this situation.
I pulled up the River Cafe and Edwin and I
just giggled.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
We could not stop laughing.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I think we were both so overwhelmed by what had
happened that we kind of just like could not stop laughing.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It was mad. It still feels really mad.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
We all had Ravioli. We had this long discussion before
whether all the Vogue people, the models and the actresses
and the young beauties of today would actually have gluten carbs,
cheese butter, and whether we would serve it. And we did,
and bo was actually really cool because we said, do
you want to find out what people won't do?
Speaker 4 (07:06):
They get?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Now we're done with that. We're done with you know,
if you have a food preference, we're just going to
do the menu and what they eat. They and everybody
had Reveali and everybody, a lot of people had seconds
of REVIALI And yet the whole issue with the being
a model about your body, talk about being a woman
in a profession that requires you to be a certain
shape besize.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I think I don't remember being worried. I think there
were moments when I was at school where I was
kind of worried about what I looked like. Sometimes I didn't.
I wasn't at a girls' school, but you know, I
lived in a house full of women. So sometimes when
someone would get a bit like weird with food or
(07:49):
they'd have you know, issues, it kind of sometimes bleeds
into everyone else within the community, do you know what
I mean?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
We see that all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
And I think when I started modeling, I don't again
remember feeling that pressured about it. I think I just
felt like incredibly painful in my own body in general,
So it wasn't necessarily like kind of weight related. I
think there's always been like parts of my body that
(08:18):
I haven't like loved, you know what I mean, And
I've had to grow to.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Love the Are you the kind of person that can
eat but not gain weight?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, because I've always done lots and lots of sports.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
But were other models that you were with? What did
you feel that to be a model you had to
be a Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I got weird with food for a period of time
actually when I got sober, and they call it that transference,
you know, I think I was just trying to control
something else in my life. So I got a bit
weird with food when I was about twenty two. I
think it was just control, to be quite honest, and
I think, wait for me, you know, if I'm myself
(08:57):
al with anxiety, you know, and so when I'm anxious,
it just falls off. Yeah, I'm not the type of
person sometimes I am eating, but it literally just falls
off all the time. So sometimes I haven't even been
like aware of like dropping way. I think I've always
(09:18):
done a lot of exercise and a kind of now
do pilates, So I used to build a lot of muscle.
So my body has changed, like you know, over the
course of like many years, I think, And so I think,
I think when I got started modeling properly, I decided
(09:40):
there was a part of me that had that to
do it, to really kind of walk into it again,
I had to take on. It was almost like a
It wasn't necessarily that I felt like that, but I
had to be like, this is who I am, do
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Like take it or leave it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I'm not going to be sucked into this idea that
I should be thinner or look a different sort of
way for you to kind of appreciate me or want me.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So I had to And that's.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Not exactly how I felt all the time, but I
had to sort of fake it to make it so
it wasn't necessarily I think I've always I don't know.
I was speaking on my own podcast about this the
other day. I think I wonder if my relationship with
myself will ever be.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
What I wanted to be.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Whilst I model, I don't know if I have a
to a certain extent a healthy relationship with myself, but
I wonder if my relationship with my body will ever
be what I wanted to be as long as I'm
kind of within the industry. And yes, it has changed
like drastically, do you know what I mean? The likes
(10:57):
of amazing people spearheading different sorts of movements. But you know,
we only have to kind of look at certain photos
or fashion shows and we see the kind of the
pressure that's.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Playing, and I almost find it painful. I haven't been
to that many catwalk shows. I think it probably has
when you see, you know how and kind of serious
and all that. You know, I know, it's there to
just showcase the clothes and so it's opening at a hanger,
but there is something as a woman to see women
(11:30):
doing that job is a little.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Bit Yeah, and also when you know that someone's like
kind of unwell, yeah whatever that looks like for different people.
When you know someone's kind of suffering with and you know,
disordered eating, but they are praised and celebrated within the
industry and they work even more. It's that in itself
(11:53):
is an uncomfortable thing to get your head around. I
think that's where sometimes the pressure for me lies. It
isn't that I want to be onwell, it's just the
fact that I see people doing well because of it,
do you know what I mean? And that's a that's
that's a mad thing to get your head around, you
know what I mean. And it's and I don't think
(12:13):
that kind of breeds healthy ways of looking yourself. You know,
if you're being told that you are better for being thin, and.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I suppose the other you know, we haven't talked about
We've talked about body image and modeling. We haven't talked
about race. And I think that there is also the
issue of what it was like to be or what
it is like to be a woman of color in
very What was it thanks to Edward? It's it's not
so much and people like Edward, but how that affected you?
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I think that's something that I'm really delving into at
the moment, is how a lack of understanding about my
own identity has really kind of hindered certain aspects of
my growth, do you know what I mean? And having
been brought up in a predominantly white space, that how
that has affected me, How the things that I've tolerated,
(13:07):
the things that I've kind of brushed off. And I
think because of the resurgence of Black Lives Matter, the
conversations that they were having it kind of.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
It really kind of shook people's core.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
It wasn't that we were just talking about slavery something
that happened, you know, years and years ago when people
were I know, but for certain people, like they weren't
around where they happened when that happened, so they were like, oh,
I wasn't part of that.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I mean, I would, I didn't do anything like that.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
And I think Black Lives Matter kind of brought it,
made it current and suddenly you were kind of they
were speaking about things that you had to check yourself
on and I had to suddenly was I think validated
in a lot of experiences and feelings that I had
surrounding my own race and how I'd had to kind
(13:56):
of navigate certain situations.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
And also I think I was also my privilege.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
You know, we talk about colorism within the community as
being someone who's like mixed race and lighter skin.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
The way that I was treated compared to.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
My cousins who are you know, who were a lot
darker skinned than me. You know, I think that's a
conversation that we don't have enough either. But for me,
I think it was great. You know, when Edward started
doing what he was doing, what he does and continues
to do and sets the bar so high continuously.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I think for me.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
It had always been unspoken how uncomfortable I'd felt in
certain situations. It was almost that I didn't want to
give it a name. It's like I felt that there
were certain reasons why my career hadn't taken off, you know,
when I'd started with certain people, you know, who look
very different to me, I think I still was searching
(14:57):
for something that was completely unattainable. Different different body shape,
you know, sometimes even like you know, different colored skin,
you know, And so I think I didn't want to
blame it on something like that. I was like, why,
you know, I started at the same time as car.
I started at the same time as so many girls,
and they kind of reached such great heights and I
(15:19):
was like, why is that?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I think it was quite nice when Edward there was
many things that were beautiful about it, but like having
him come in and be like, we got to change that.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
This is what is going on, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Were you born here? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah, born in London and your father's yeah, gone in
he was born in Akras.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So going back was part of your childhood.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, very much. So it was always something that we did.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Sometimes my mum came and sometimes it was just the
three of us, and.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I think it felt quite alien at that time.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
And as I grew older and kind of my career changed,
and obviously I became like a grown up, my relationship
Ghana very much changed. I felt like kind of instead
of just the kind of traveler, someone who'd like been
born in London and who'd come back to Ghana, I
felt like they really claimed me, which was really like a.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Kind of beautiful experience, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I think especially after the British Vogue cover, you know,
it was like they call you a BRUNEI which means
like a kind of traveler, because I'm obviously a little
like paler skin than most garn Ears. And I think
after that, I felt very much like kind of claimed
by the people there, which was really really amazing. But
I have the most amazing memories of Ghana. We always
(16:37):
used to stay at my grandma and granddads. It's just
a modest house next to a nursery, so there were
always like kids playing outside. My grandma has always had
a little kind of like corner shop, so we go
in there get all like cold bottles of like.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Coke and like biscuits. Then we'd sit.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
There and watch her and my aunt Mary, all three
of them live together, so we'd watch them.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Did you cook? Did she cook for you?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
She cooked, and then she had a woman who also
helped her comfort.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
What is gonna and food?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Like, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
I mean, you've got the joll Off rice, You've got
lots of different kind of fish, You've got food food
so it's like a kind of dough that you dip
into a soup. The spice there is kind of like
it's like an oily one. It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And chili, yeah, a lot of chili.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, really Spike, Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Did you go to the market.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
To the markets are mad, mad, like insane, just like
bustling food, clothes, people wandering around. It's like mental but amazing.
And how long would you stay? We'd stay for like
two weeks. I have some cousins who usually stay there
a bit longer. Dad and my sister were there this year.
(18:02):
My dad goes back all the day, all the time.
My granddad's not alive anymore. My aunt Mary, she's not
alive anymore, but my grandma very much still there and
my aunt Tina lives with her.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
So yeah, thats what was it like growing up in
your house? You have memories of meals, you know, for cooked.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
My house has always been a place that is kind of.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
People are in and out at all times.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
You know, I very much grew up with Maybe it
was someone who had to move in for a bit,
you know, my godfather would move in, or someone in
you know, distress would be upstairs living in the upstairs room.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
There were always.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Parties and dinner parties and lots of different people kind
of in and out of the house. You know. My
mom has always been like an entertainer, my dad as well.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
The home has always been one that kind of.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
It feels like sacred, but they're not precious about it,
you know, a place that people want to get. The
carpets are rolled up when a party happens. But you know,
they've never been kind of like prim and Popper, prim
and roper about their their places.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
But were kids part of it? You kind of you
weren't sitting on the steps watching the party. We were
down there.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
We do like things like co check yeah yeah, and
we like charge everyone money and then they find all
their coats just piled off on one bed, pretending like
we'd organized them. Or we'd be like sat on the
staircase watching everyone get up to whatever mischief they were
getting up to, and then later on we were just
(19:43):
joining in.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Would you go out a lot? Would you go out? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
We do such amazing things, you know.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
That's the thing about growing up in London is like,
I mean, I wouldn't want to bring my children out
anywhere else.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Galleries and restaurants and they took us everywhere. It was
never about separation. It was like you want to sit
with the grown ups. You learn how to sit with
the grown ups, you, you know, learn how to converse
and listen and talk to whoever might be next to
(20:17):
you or in front of you. But it was never
like my parents were never into the idea of like.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Putting you on the kids say yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
If we were younger, it was like, come out, enjoy yourself.
When you get tired, just sleep under the table, do
you know what I mean? And then we'll go out.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And then you went to way to boarding school. Yeah yeah,
what was that like? The food yeah, horrible, horrible? And Milfields?
Was it Millfield? Yeah, to be rather proud of it.
It was.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
You know what, maybe this is my snobby side. I'm
not great with a buffet. I think school kind of
like traumatized me from that. I mean some days it
would be good, Like the salad station was like banging,
like that was good. But to be quite honest, I
lived off dominoes for like five years.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Oh no, you weren't.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
We weren't allowed, but we'd like sneak it in and
then in prep we'd like run out and get the
pizza and like bring it back in and all share it.
On Fridays we were allowed like to order in Indian
or a Chinese.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Interesting, So that must have been quite shocking to go
from a house that was full of people and friends
and good food.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Yeah. I think it was also. I mean there were
certain days where it was good. Chinese day, wasn't that bad?
Indian neighbor wasn't that bad?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
How old were you thirteen to eighteen five years?
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, then you'd come back weekends or would youday?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Well, you were only allowed what do they call it?
I can't remember what they used to call xia. Yeah,
you were only allowed a certain amount of exacts. But
I had the best house mistress on the face of
the planet, missus Orton, and she I was really homesick. Yeah,
I mean I kind of got over it, but it
(22:00):
wasn't my favorite of years being at that school. I
had some great friends, but I was just desperate to
come back to London.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Then from Millfield you went to university, went to what
was that like, Brunell?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Where is Brunel?
Speaker 4 (22:15):
That's an Oxbridge. I mean I tried to get into Goldsmiths.
I've failed my English exam. I can't remember which one
it was. Because you realize that it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I mean, try your best, do all the things.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
But listen, we're here. We're here with a friend of
mine's daughter and the Hedge head executive chef's daughter, Pearl.
Helena Pearl joined us today because she's a fifteen year
old aspiring actor. She's an enormous admirer of your work
and so.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
There.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, and so we were talking about whether you matters.
So what was that like?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Obviously wanted to save money so that home.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yeah, I had the best time because I think it
was just I was back home.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I was back in London. I was back.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
It was more it was predominantly I mean, Millfield was
very kind of like intersectional do I mean in many ways,
but it was predominantly white. And I think coming back
to London, it wasn't just the kind of necessarily race.
It was also a boiling pot of people who've grown
up differently, you know what I mean. It was like
(23:29):
I'd grown up completely different to a lot of the
people in my kind of class. But I was I
just felt I felt like that was just more me.
I just wanted to be amongst that.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, living at home, did it come come back? Did
it feel like before you went to it.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Was very weird.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I wouldn't say, it was a great time for my
mine and my parents' relationship. I think, you know, I
think they thought sending me to Bailing school there would
be more rules. But actually, when someone doesn't know you,
like a teacher, you can get around them, do what
I mean, Like, actually, you've kind of weirdly got more
space to Rome, and so coming back to London, obviously
(24:15):
there were certain rules. But I think if I was
honest and I've you know, I've spoken to about this anyway,
I think coming back home after five years, I was
a bit like, you can't really tell me what to do,
do you know what I mean? Like, we haven't lived
together for five years, so I think that dynamic was
quite hard on our relationship. I think I probably regressed.
(24:37):
I think I wasn't used to the fact that I
was back living under their roof, and I was like
very much a different person.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I remember once saying to my father I might have said.
This was before saying to my father when I was
thirty or twenty eight or whatever, and I've been living
in London and working, and my parents lived in the
New York and would stock and I once went home
and I was said to my dad, oh, I'm going
to leave the baby and going to New York tomorrow.
And he said, I don't think you should do that.
(25:08):
And I said, you know what, I live in London
and I work and I don't have to ask anybody's
you know, nice way said permission. But it's interesting that
when you know, I go home, I don't know whether
I'm a child or I'm an adult. And he said,
I'll make it really easy for you with the minute
you walk in that door, you're a child. And it
was actually quite nice because I thought, that's kind of
why I like going home, you know, is it suddenly
(25:30):
somebody's saying, you know, no one you stay here or whatever.
It was just interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
It's like a dance, isn't it. You have to learn
how to live with each other again.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
When you went to brunew What would you think of majoring?
What was your dat?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
That's why I finished, That's why I majored. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Did you eat out a lot? Did you party?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Did you yeah out all the time?
Speaker 4 (26:01):
To do.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
All the time?
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I mean we were so I was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, and lit were born in nineteen nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, So what did I finish school? Twenty ten? So yeah, yeah,
we had the best time. I worked as soon as
I kind of finished school, Madeling. There were bits of modeling,
but it wasn't there was like a different time, do
you know what I mean? So I worked in the shop,
I worked as a nanny. But we were so we
(26:32):
had so much fun, do you know what I mean?
We was like, I don't know how it is for you, Pearl,
but we just we were so carefree and mad and
doing our thing. And we were probably eighteen. Yeah, and
we all pile our money. Yeah, I mean just but
I just mean being young, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
It's like we weren't.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Bothered about kind of what clothes we were wearing or
anything like that. We didn't have the pressure of like
social media or anything like that. It was just about
being in a gang, do you know what I mean,
and roaming the streets and.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Mostly girls was it.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Mostly I've always been a girls girl.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
And we'd all put our money together and like share
one meal, like poor restaurants where we just sit for
hours and hours and hours outside kind of coffee shop,
sharing one coffee between like five of us, and they're like,
can you leave if you're not going to buy anything,
can you leave? Or we go to like kind of
my friend Josh Delissa, who might as well be my brother,
(27:26):
he had a restaurant called Boomberger. We'd go in there
get cheap prices. We had some Mexican restaurants around the area,
and we'd all put our money together to share like
kind of one plate of food, because I mean we
were quite naughty. We were spending our money on like
alcohol and going out, so we didn't really have a
massive interest in spending our money on food.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So modeling, when did that happen? I mean, how did
that happen?
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I mean I've been modeling on and off since I
was probably since I left school, so since I was eighteen.
I did a few bits and pieces like before, but
my mom was very strict about and my dad as
well about finishing school. Modeling kind of took quite a
long time to kind of take off, so that's why
(28:12):
I kind of worked.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Did you enjoy it?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah? I did. I think I've learned to like it more.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
I learned to like it when I as cheesy as
this sounds, when I started to like myself, to be
quite honest, you know, I mean that's when it became
more fun. And yes, there are days when I'm on
my period or I'm a bit exhausted, when I'm like,
this is literally the last thing I want to do,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
There's be like kind of.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Showcased in front of a bunch of people, and then
kind of it's like Instagram have to kind of and
then I start picking apart my kind of who I am,
you know what I mean, face value, not who I
am as a person actually, but I.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Can ask questions it what made you want to do
a podcast?
Speaker 4 (28:54):
I think it goes back to this this idea of storytelling,
I think, and the information out there on what lived
experience does in regards to stigma reduction and suicide reduction,
and so I couldn't think of a better place. There's
(29:15):
something about an honest conversation and honest chat. Yeah, there's
so much like intimacy within that and to just listen
to someone. And I think it really was that it's
like to talk to someone, to hear their side of
a story, to hear where they've come from and where
they're at and where they hope to be. I think
(29:36):
that's definitely the essence of having the podcast is that
idea that when we hear someone else's story, we're going
to feel less alone.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, so you will be talking about Girls Talk. Tell
me when the next series that you're so excited about
is coming out?
Speaker 4 (29:50):
So podcast, I'd say, just keep a lookout. It will
be towards the end of the year. Keep a look
out for September.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
How do we look for it?
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah, so just ground handles Girls Talk and my girls Talk,
gu are Ls Talk.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Do you listen to Girls Talk?
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (30:06):
I have, but to you, like, I love listening to
things that say, like, you know, I love this things
that's just like, yeah, that so should be said.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
That so to be spoken about more, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
People sphere of speaking out stops them from sins like
saying the truth, you know, as I really like about it,
you know, like speaking about grievouses or trauma or like
mental health, like all those types of things are just
not talked about enough.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Yeah, and I think I can't wait for the new
season to come out. I feel more grown up and
even more opinionated and even more confident. I find and
I don't know if this is because of social media
or cancel culture, that sometimes we're quite agreeable with each other,
and I want to have conversations that aren't always with
(30:53):
people that I agree with. I want to also learn
about things that I have no idea about, and I
want to sometimes have those uncomfortable conversations where I'm not
only kind of not necessarily agreeing with the other person,
but I'm also being checked about what I don't know
and the ways that I think about things.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (31:14):
And so we've kind of changed that and it's going
to be really cool. We've got some mega people on
the podcast. Yeah. I love hearing people's stories, you know,
I love meeting people, you know who different backgrounds exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Everybody comes in with a story. Look around it. I've
had people come in and say, ah, you know, look
how this fabulous restaurant and I've had such a hard
time lately, and I gave if you went to every table,
everybody would have a story a story about Yeah, but
you know, people, you know, we all think that you
see all these people and their lives are perfect, and
then you find out one that's just been divorced, or
(31:50):
they've had a kid with addiction, or they have everybody
has a story and so those smiling, happy faces, whether
you see them on Instagram or here. You know that
everybody has a story. And as you say, I love
walking around and just hearing a bit of the story
of saying hello. Do you think prayl that. Do you
think that's when when Edward talked about social media pressure,
do you think that exists now?
Speaker 6 (32:13):
I think, especially hearing about what you were saying about
how when you were a kids and used to like
it used to be much different to its now because
you don't have social media, and I think it really
affects more how people look at themselves because you're Instagram
and you've got TikTok and you've got all these things.
And if you don't have it, you're like not in
with the times. But if you do, then you're just
making yourself feel worse by yourself. But you can't be
(32:34):
like like for example, and people are like, oh, I
don't want social media.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
It's bad. People are down on you for it.
Speaker 6 (32:40):
But reality it's much better if you didn't have it,
like for you probably happier in those times than that
kids are.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Now because it's there's one thing, you know, getting to
know yourself and figuring out who you are over those
like thirteen to eighteen and then onwards.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
It was like such a confusing time and that that's
already like, you know, I was talking to these girls
the other day, like thirteen to fourteen, and that was
a question like what would you say to your younger self?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
And I would be, like I.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Used to scrutinize every single thing I did, the shoes
I wore, the way I wore my eyeliner, the way
my hair was, the way I carried my bag, the
way I walked, you know what I mean. I was
like always on my case about every single movement, and
I think I would tell everyone that you don't need
to do that. I wish i'd stop putting so much
(33:29):
pressure on myself, because you realize when your world gets
bigger than none of them truly matters, do you know
what I mean? And I think to add in the
pressure of having to kind of be perceived by other people,
it's like I already was kind of self conscious, so
to then have to kind of portray a person that
I maybe wasn't hadn't become yet, do you know what
(33:51):
I mean, Something that was maybe just kind of performative
would have been like an added pressure at that time.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And you know it happen is at any age, you know,
I can you know, we're talking to women's My husband
died a year and a half ago, and sometimes I
just look on Instagram, go, you know, another happy family,
you know, and the beach resorder, another grandparents with their
grand char I mean, I have that life, but you know,
it's very You can look at it in terms of
whether you're thin enough, whether you're you know, whether your
(34:22):
hair is as beautiful, whether you're a certain type with
the clothes you're wearing, the way you carry handbag, or
you can look at it in families and you can see,
you know, it just feels that there's I really I
never post from a vacation. I really, I knew that
a long time. Becau it's nothing worse than on a
day like today working and then you see somebody on there.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
You know, it's just it's like.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
There's a is it acting what you wanted to do
when you went to Brunel.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Yeah, that's from thirteen until eighteen.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
I did that at school and then I went on
to study that at Brunel and then kind of life
took a different direction, not only kind of personally, and
then it became something you know, then I kind of
fell into modeling and that started taking over. So I
kind of jumped on that bandwagon and that led me
to where I am now.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
And then I think.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Just before COVID, I made a kind of decision that
I wanted to give it another go, you know, I
wanted to put one hundred percent in it and see
where it would take me because I think when I
first left university had a different head of my shoulders
and my priorities were warped and I wasn't a very
happy person. So I didn't, you know, have the capability
(35:48):
or to give it one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So that's where I'm at now.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
I'm on that journey and I absolutely love it.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
It's ridiculously hard, respect to all.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
I would love to do theater one day, but at
the moment, it's it's TV infil Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
And now you're living in your own apartment. How is that?
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
It's really nice.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Do you have an open kitchen as well?
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, yeah, what's it like kitchen?
Speaker 4 (36:18):
It's my kitchen's yellow, blue and white tiles, I mean,
describe it. It's very much open I've got an island
in the middle that has like a kind of heart
boner engraved in it that my friend Jeff did. It's
got a massive, big, like kind of teak table with
matching chairs that I've posted in like Leopard Brint.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
How you like your parents? Do you like people coming
to you.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Instead of you going to the Yeah? I love it.
I mean I think to a certain extent.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
I grew up in an African household, so the idea
that we were going to spend the night at other
people's houses was like something that was like my dad
just did not understand. He's like, you have a bed,
you have a house, Like, why do you need to
go and stay at someone else's house. There was certain
people that we went to, but like eating at home
and sleeping at home has always been like a kind
of a priority.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
With a metal house, you know.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
I was talking to Pearl about it. Actually, I mean
I actually eating a lot. I now spend a lot
of time between London and la and when I was
working before COVID, I didn't really have the time to cook.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
It wasn't un necessarily a priority of mine.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
So I used to order a lot of takeaway and
I think after COVID, I started really prioritizing what was important,
so I did have more time. And so my boyfriend's
a really good cook. My sister lives with me and
she's an amazing cook. I like cooking if it's like
family or people who are really close to me.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I don't feel the pressure.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I'm not the idea of cooking for like ten people
or something that doesn't excite me. If I'm cooking for myself,
it's like simple things like fish and vegetable or eggs, soup,
you know, stuff like that. No I don't eat No, No,
I haven't eaten. You're Weirdly, I've started, like I think
(38:14):
I've just been listening to my body a bit more,
and so like if it's the time of the month
or something like that, I'm like, oh, I kind of
really feel like some me and I've never had that before.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
So I kind of am listening to my body a
bit more.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
But it's still very much like kind of in when
I'm cooking at home, especially in LA we have like
a tiny, tiny kitchen, so we're not gonna cook fish
because it would just make the whole house smile.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Like fish.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
The little flat we have so we cook a lot
of vegetarian stuff in LA and then at home, you know,
I have more space, and so we cook lots of
different things and have people around. I wish I I've
grown up in a household full of amazing cooks, my
cousins and amazing cook my aunt and my uncle everyone.
(39:03):
You know, they have recipes that were handwritten by my
grandma about certain things. Yeah. That, and I think I
remember my mom always say grandmother my mom's mom.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
I always remember my mom, like I mean, there were
there are many things that were kind of sad when
her mom died. But I think she always thinks about,
you know, when she needs answers on certain recipes. She
always thinks about the idea of calling my grandma. And
my dad is an amazing cook as well, and so
I should be more interested in it.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Well, I'm the cleaner.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I'm the cleaner.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, that's fine. I think everybody figures out I do
the dishes.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Well, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Do you remember when when it became possible for you
to go out to you to not think about how
much it cost.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
So I moved twenty seventeen, I moved to la when
I got sober, but I don't I wasn't eating out
that much, to be quite honest, I didn't have the
money I was. I'd kind of taken a year off
and my mum and dad were supporting me for the
first time in a long time, which I found like
(40:15):
kind of incredibly uncomfortable. So I kind of was under
a certain budget, do you know what I mean? And
I think probably maybe when I really could just like
go to the restaurants and come here and like pay
for myself. I probably was about twenty five, twenty five
(40:36):
and had.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Come from modeling or we're acting.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Or yeah, modeling, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a big change.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Yeah, moving to New York. Yeah, So I moved to
New York when I was twenty four. I had my
twenty fifth birthday in New York, and that's probably when
it started to change. You know. That's when I could
like order a takeaway or like go to this restaurant
called Lucienne and like we'll get my friend of meal
or you're.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Not alone in that, you know that It was something
that I was talked When I talked to David Beckham,
he said he remembered when he took Victoria and they
could actually, you know, I have to completely look at
the prices on the right hand side. Or Paul McCartney
saying that he thought wine was a horrible drink because
he could only afford the cheapest, cheapest, cheapest wine. Behichause
we know it is pretty hard. Wine was a horrible
(41:25):
drink until he went out with Brian you know, Epstein,
who was his manager, and they ordered a fantastic buddle
of the feet and thought, oh, that's what wine is.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
So the main thing is is I've never tried a
good glass of wine. Well never, yeah, no, but but
I got sober when I was twenty I got sober
when I was twenty two, so I wasn't like spending
the money and like we were going to the corner
shop and getting like a Caserillio dable, you know what
I mean, like a cheap bottle of tequila with a
hat on it. Yeah, And so I've never actually, you know,
(41:59):
I've never had had a like stunning cocktail.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
I've never had a like beautiful glass of wine.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
And it's fine, but it is mad to think that
I'm never actually because and to be honest, like that's
why I could probably like go and eat out, do
you know. I mean, I've never had the expense of
having to kind of buy alcohol.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
And I suppose you know for me that is you know,
we all have reasons why we eat the food we eat.
Food can be something you have when you're hungry, be
something that you have when you want to cook or
you want to entertain. It can be food can be
alleviation of pain or sadness. So I suppose that my
(42:39):
last question to you is what would you turn to
if you needed food for comfort?
Speaker 4 (42:45):
Hm, I go home, definitely. I don't know if it's
anything in particular. I think it would just be something
because by my mom and dad, anything that was put
in front of me would feel comforting.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
That's beautiful and beautiful. Wait to end a wonderful.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Thank you, Love.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
You, love you, love you, be We love you. Thanks,
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
The River Cafe Lookbook is now available in bookshops and online.
It has over one hundred recipes beautifully illustrated with photographs
from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book has fifty
delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a host of
River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted for new cooks.
(43:35):
The River Cafe Lookbook Recipes for Cooks of all ages.
Ruthie's Table four is a production of iHeart Radio and
Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and
Adamized Studios.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
In September, the River Cafe will be thirty six years old,
and one of the great joys of having a restaurant
for so long is watching the second generation and now
even a third generation of her early customers grow up.
Adwa's parents, Charles Boa and Camilla Luther, have been part
of the River Cafe family since reopened, and ad was
(00:31):
gone from being a young child ordering pasta, butter and
cheese and then playing in the garden space outside with
her friends to a formidable woman focused on the political
and social issues relevant today. After her own struggles with
mental health and to support young women's wellbeing, she founded
(00:52):
the organization Girls Talk, providing a safe space for girls
to access resources, share experiences, create community, and feel less alone,
a place to escape the chaos of the every day.
I think a beautiful phrase today. Ed was just come
from the kitchen grilling scallops and frying zucchini, and she's
going to tell us what she learned and read the
(01:14):
recipe so you can cook this at home. It's both
moving and exciting for me to have ed.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We're here oh, oh, so nice.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So you've been in the kitchen then in the River
Cafee kitchen, which do you remember coming here all.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
The time all the time Ronnie and Johnathan? Yeah, they
used to take us all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And you've just been in the kitchen, and so you
watched your request for the recipe with scallops grilled scallops
with chili and zucchini.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
My name's Adriana and I'm a chepher at the River
Cafe and today I'm cooking some scallops on the grill.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Thing that now, Joan, I'm not cooking anything.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
You can cook it with me if you want.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
We put them in the center of the grill because
that's the hardest place.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
How long do you have to leave them on fard?
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Not very long at all. So you just keep them,
don't move them around, keep them where they are, and
then he'll start kind.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Of coming off.
Speaker 5 (02:18):
You can kind of look at the bottom and see
how they're cooking, because if you move them too quickly
then they'll stick.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Oh wow, And.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Then we're gonna get some pretty may I think, Harry,
you're doing pretty right? Can you drop some pretty for us?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So we have two recipes. One. I think it's really
for the batter for the zucchini, and then quite simple the.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Scales scallops and zucchini. Pretty four firm ripe zucchini, one
litera sunflower oil for the batter, one cup all purpose flour,
three tablespoons extra virgin olive oil. Get always get really
confused that the tablespoon and teaspoon.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
There is a difference, like.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
The way it's written.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, because it goes that's tablespoon tsp is.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Three tablespoons extra virgin olive oil, three tablespoons warm water,
three egg whites, scallops sixteen shells sea scallops, two lemons,
extra virgin olival Cut the zucchini into ovals, then into
thick matchsticks for the batter. Sift the flour into a bowl,
(03:36):
making a well in the center.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Pour in the olive oil and stuff.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Loosen the paste by slowly adding enough warm water to
make a batter the consistency of heavy cream.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Leave for thirty minutes.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Heat the oil in a high sided pan to three
hundred and seventy five degrees. Beat the egg whites until stiff,
and fold into the batter. Dip zucchini, then fry in
batches in hot oil until golden and crisp. Serve immediately scallops.
Heat the grill. Season the scallops very generously on both
(04:10):
sides with salt and pepper. Actually she said only salt
and then pepper at the end. Don't put the pepper on, Yeah, don't, Okay,
it burns quickly, so put the pepper on after place
on the grill until lightly brown and crisp. Then turn
over the grill on the other side. The scallop should
be tender on the inside and crisp on the surface.
(04:31):
Serve with lemon and a drizzle of olive oil. And
I had some chili online, so.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
If you have to place it all up.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Yeah, that's the really fun part about working here is
that you get to plate all of your.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Food because well, who would you usually do.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
That in like another so you bring it up to
the past, and maybe someone on the past would plate it,
but here you get to do it and it gives you.
I mean, for me, it's really satisfying.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Water.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Wow, I'm coming here for dinner.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Tell me about going to Vogue with Edward, because we
did when Edward Nfl became the editor. We did the party,
Remember that we had a party for him. I was
a great party. You were the cover for his first year.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
That was mad, that Vogue party. I remember that like
it was yesterday. I remember us driving here and I,
you know, Edward, and I still laugh about it now.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
It's like it wasn't naivety.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I think it was just this we were just doing
something that felt very special to both of us. It
was like this, we were embarking on this new journey,
and it wasn't necessarily that we were. We were completely
naive to how the world was going to embrace it,
you know, not only just people in fashion but worldwide.
(05:58):
You know, it really went you know what I mean, I think.
And so as we kind of pulled up, I pulled up,
I can't remember who I was in the car with me.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
It was like my mom and dad and system.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
We pulled up the Shepherd's Bush roundabout and it was
projected on Shepherd's Bush round about.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
What the hell is going on?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
And I looked on my phone and it was just
like going mad and I actually like broke out into hives.
I was like, oh my god, this is so much.
I don't even know how to deal with this situation.
I pulled up the River Cafe and Edwin and I
just giggled.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
We could not stop laughing.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I think we were both so overwhelmed by what had
happened that we kind of just like could not stop laughing.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It was mad. It still feels really mad.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
We all had Ravioli. We had this long discussion before
whether all the Vogue people, the models and the actresses
and the young beauties of today would actually have gluten carbs,
cheese butter, and whether we would serve it. And we did,
and bo was actually really cool because we said, do
you want to find out what people won't do?
Speaker 4 (07:06):
They get?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Now we're done with that. We're done with you know,
if you have a food preference, we're just going to
do the menu and what they eat. They and everybody
had Reveali and everybody, a lot of people had seconds
of REVIALI And yet the whole issue with the being
a model about your body, talk about being a woman
in a profession that requires you to be a certain
shape besize.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I think I don't remember being worried. I think there
were moments when I was at school where I was
kind of worried about what I looked like. Sometimes I didn't.
I wasn't at a girls' school, but you know, I
lived in a house full of women. So sometimes when
someone would get a bit like weird with food or
(07:49):
they'd have you know, issues, it kind of sometimes bleeds
into everyone else within the community, do you know what
I mean?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
We see that all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
And I think when I started modeling, I don't again
remember feeling that pressured about it. I think I just
felt like incredibly painful in my own body in general,
So it wasn't necessarily like kind of weight related. I
think there's always been like parts of my body that
(08:18):
I haven't like loved, you know what I mean, And
I've had to grow to.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Love the Are you the kind of person that can
eat but not gain weight?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, because I've always done lots and lots of sports.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
But were other models that you were with? What did
you feel that to be a model you had to
be a Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I got weird with food for a period of time
actually when I got sober, and they call it that transference,
you know, I think I was just trying to control
something else in my life. So I got a bit
weird with food when I was about twenty two. I
think it was just control, to be quite honest, and
I think, wait for me, you know, if I'm myself
(08:57):
al with anxiety, you know, and so when I'm anxious,
it just falls off. Yeah, I'm not the type of
person sometimes I am eating, but it literally just falls
off all the time. So sometimes I haven't even been
like aware of like dropping way. I think I've always
(09:18):
done a lot of exercise and a kind of now
do pilates, So I used to build a lot of muscle.
So my body has changed, like you know, over the
course of like many years, I think, And so I think,
I think when I got started modeling properly, I decided
(09:40):
there was a part of me that had that to
do it, to really kind of walk into it again,
I had to take on. It was almost like a
It wasn't necessarily that I felt like that, but I
had to be like, this is who I am, do
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Like take it or leave it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I'm not going to be sucked into this idea that
I should be thinner or look a different sort of
way for you to kind of appreciate me or want me.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So I had to And that's.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Not exactly how I felt all the time, but I
had to sort of fake it to make it so
it wasn't necessarily I think I've always I don't know.
I was speaking on my own podcast about this the
other day. I think I wonder if my relationship with
myself will ever be.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
What I wanted to be.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Whilst I model, I don't know if I have a
to a certain extent a healthy relationship with myself, but
I wonder if my relationship with my body will ever
be what I wanted to be as long as I'm
kind of within the industry. And yes, it has changed
like drastically, do you know what I mean? The likes
(10:57):
of amazing people spearheading different sorts of movements. But you know,
we only have to kind of look at certain photos
or fashion shows and we see the kind of the
pressure that's.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Playing, and I almost find it painful. I haven't been
to that many catwalk shows. I think it probably has
when you see, you know how and kind of serious
and all that. You know, I know, it's there to
just showcase the clothes and so it's opening at a hanger,
but there is something as a woman to see women
(11:30):
doing that job is a little.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Bit Yeah, and also when you know that someone's like
kind of unwell, yeah whatever that looks like for different people.
When you know someone's kind of suffering with and you know,
disordered eating, but they are praised and celebrated within the
industry and they work even more. It's that in itself
(11:53):
is an uncomfortable thing to get your head around. I
think that's where sometimes the pressure for me lies. It
isn't that I want to be onwell, it's just the
fact that I see people doing well because of it,
do you know what I mean? And that's a that's
that's a mad thing to get your head around, you
know what I mean. And it's and I don't think
(12:13):
that kind of breeds healthy ways of looking yourself. You know,
if you're being told that you are better for being thin, and.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I suppose the other you know, we haven't talked about
We've talked about body image and modeling. We haven't talked
about race. And I think that there is also the
issue of what it was like to be or what
it is like to be a woman of color in
very What was it thanks to Edward? It's it's not
so much and people like Edward, but how that affected you?
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I think that's something that I'm really delving into at
the moment, is how a lack of understanding about my
own identity has really kind of hindered certain aspects of
my growth, do you know what I mean? And having
been brought up in a predominantly white space, that how
that has affected me, How the things that I've tolerated,
(13:07):
the things that I've kind of brushed off. And I
think because of the resurgence of Black Lives Matter, the
conversations that they were having it kind of.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
It really kind of shook people's core.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
It wasn't that we were just talking about slavery something
that happened, you know, years and years ago when people
were I know, but for certain people, like they weren't
around where they happened when that happened, so they were like, oh,
I wasn't part of that.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I mean, I would, I didn't do anything like that.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
And I think Black Lives Matter kind of brought it,
made it current and suddenly you were kind of they
were speaking about things that you had to check yourself
on and I had to suddenly was I think validated
in a lot of experiences and feelings that I had
surrounding my own race and how I'd had to kind
(13:56):
of navigate certain situations.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
And also I think I was also my privilege.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
You know, we talk about colorism within the community as
being someone who's like mixed race and lighter skin.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
The way that I was treated compared to.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
My cousins who are you know, who were a lot
darker skinned than me. You know, I think that's a
conversation that we don't have enough either. But for me,
I think it was great. You know, when Edward started
doing what he was doing, what he does and continues
to do and sets the bar so high continuously.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I think for me.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
It had always been unspoken how uncomfortable I'd felt in
certain situations. It was almost that I didn't want to
give it a name. It's like I felt that there
were certain reasons why my career hadn't taken off, you know,
when I'd started with certain people, you know, who look
very different to me, I think I still was searching
(14:57):
for something that was completely unattainable. Different different body shape,
you know, sometimes even like you know, different colored skin,
you know, And so I think I didn't want to
blame it on something like that. I was like, why,
you know, I started at the same time as car.
I started at the same time as so many girls,
and they kind of reached such great heights and I
(15:19):
was like, why is that?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I think it was quite nice when Edward there was
many things that were beautiful about it, but like having
him come in and be like, we got to change that.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
This is what is going on, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Were you born here? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah, born in London and your father's yeah, gone in
he was born in Akras.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So going back was part of your childhood.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, very much. So it was always something that we did.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Sometimes my mum came and sometimes it was just the
three of us, and.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I think it felt quite alien at that time.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
And as I grew older and kind of my career changed,
and obviously I became like a grown up, my relationship
Ghana very much changed. I felt like kind of instead
of just the kind of traveler, someone who'd like been
born in London and who'd come back to Ghana, I
felt like they really claimed me, which was really like a.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Kind of beautiful experience, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I think especially after the British Vogue cover, you know,
it was like they call you a BRUNEI which means
like a kind of traveler, because I'm obviously a little
like paler skin than most garn Ears. And I think
after that, I felt very much like kind of claimed
by the people there, which was really really amazing. But
I have the most amazing memories of Ghana. We always
(16:37):
used to stay at my grandma and granddads. It's just
a modest house next to a nursery, so there were
always like kids playing outside. My grandma has always had
a little kind of like corner shop, so we go
in there get all like cold bottles of like.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Coke and like biscuits. Then we'd sit.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
There and watch her and my aunt Mary, all three
of them live together, so we'd watch them.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Did you cook? Did she cook for you?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
She cooked, and then she had a woman who also
helped her comfort.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
What is gonna and food?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Like, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
I mean, you've got the joll Off rice, You've got
lots of different kind of fish, You've got food food
so it's like a kind of dough that you dip
into a soup. The spice there is kind of like
it's like an oily one. It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And chili, yeah, a lot of chili.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, really Spike, Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Did you go to the market.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
To the markets are mad, mad, like insane, just like
bustling food, clothes, people wandering around. It's like mental but amazing.
And how long would you stay? We'd stay for like
two weeks. I have some cousins who usually stay there
a bit longer. Dad and my sister were there this year.
(18:02):
My dad goes back all the day, all the time.
My granddad's not alive anymore. My aunt Mary, she's not
alive anymore, but my grandma very much still there and
my aunt Tina lives with her.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
So yeah, thats what was it like growing up in
your house? You have memories of meals, you know, for cooked.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
My house has always been a place that is kind of.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
People are in and out at all times.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
You know, I very much grew up with Maybe it
was someone who had to move in for a bit,
you know, my godfather would move in, or someone in
you know, distress would be upstairs living in the upstairs room.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
There were always.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Parties and dinner parties and lots of different people kind
of in and out of the house. You know. My
mom has always been like an entertainer, my dad as well.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
The home has always been one that kind of.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
It feels like sacred, but they're not precious about it,
you know, a place that people want to get. The
carpets are rolled up when a party happens. But you know,
they've never been kind of like prim and Popper, prim
and roper about their their places.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
But were kids part of it? You kind of you
weren't sitting on the steps watching the party. We were
down there.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
We do like things like co check yeah yeah, and
we like charge everyone money and then they find all
their coats just piled off on one bed, pretending like
we'd organized them. Or we'd be like sat on the
staircase watching everyone get up to whatever mischief they were
getting up to, and then later on we were just
(19:43):
joining in.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Would you go out a lot? Would you go out? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
We do such amazing things, you know.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
That's the thing about growing up in London is like,
I mean, I wouldn't want to bring my children out
anywhere else.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Galleries and restaurants and they took us everywhere. It was
never about separation. It was like you want to sit
with the grown ups. You learn how to sit with
the grown ups, you, you know, learn how to converse
and listen and talk to whoever might be next to
(20:17):
you or in front of you. But it was never
like my parents were never into the idea of like.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Putting you on the kids say yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
If we were younger, it was like, come out, enjoy yourself.
When you get tired, just sleep under the table, do
you know what I mean? And then we'll go out.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And then you went to way to boarding school. Yeah yeah,
what was that like? The food yeah, horrible, horrible? And Milfields?
Was it Millfield? Yeah, to be rather proud of it.
It was.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
You know what, maybe this is my snobby side. I'm
not great with a buffet. I think school kind of
like traumatized me from that. I mean some days it
would be good, Like the salad station was like banging,
like that was good. But to be quite honest, I
lived off dominoes for like five years.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Oh no, you weren't.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
We weren't allowed, but we'd like sneak it in and
then in prep we'd like run out and get the
pizza and like bring it back in and all share it.
On Fridays we were allowed like to order in Indian
or a Chinese.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Interesting, So that must have been quite shocking to go
from a house that was full of people and friends
and good food.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Yeah. I think it was also. I mean there were
certain days where it was good. Chinese day, wasn't that bad?
Indian neighbor wasn't that bad?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
How old were you thirteen to eighteen five years?
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, then you'd come back weekends or would youday?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Well, you were only allowed what do they call it?
I can't remember what they used to call xia. Yeah,
you were only allowed a certain amount of exacts. But
I had the best house mistress on the face of
the planet, missus Orton, and she I was really homesick. Yeah,
I mean I kind of got over it, but it
(22:00):
wasn't my favorite of years being at that school. I
had some great friends, but I was just desperate to
come back to London.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Then from Millfield you went to university, went to what
was that like, Brunell?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Where is Brunel?
Speaker 4 (22:15):
That's an Oxbridge. I mean I tried to get into Goldsmiths.
I've failed my English exam. I can't remember which one
it was. Because you realize that it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I mean, try your best, do all the things.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
But listen, we're here. We're here with a friend of
mine's daughter and the Hedge head executive chef's daughter, Pearl.
Helena Pearl joined us today because she's a fifteen year
old aspiring actor. She's an enormous admirer of your work
and so.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
There.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, and so we were talking about whether you matters.
So what was that like?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Obviously wanted to save money so that home.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yeah, I had the best time because I think it
was just I was back home.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I was back in London. I was back.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
It was more it was predominantly I mean, Millfield was
very kind of like intersectional do I mean in many ways,
but it was predominantly white. And I think coming back
to London, it wasn't just the kind of necessarily race.
It was also a boiling pot of people who've grown
up differently, you know what I mean. It was like
(23:29):
I'd grown up completely different to a lot of the
people in my kind of class. But I was I
just felt I felt like that was just more me.
I just wanted to be amongst that.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, living at home, did it come come back? Did
it feel like before you went to it.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Was very weird.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I wouldn't say, it was a great time for my
mine and my parents' relationship. I think, you know, I
think they thought sending me to Bailing school there would
be more rules. But actually, when someone doesn't know you,
like a teacher, you can get around them, do what
I mean, Like, actually, you've kind of weirdly got more
space to Rome, and so coming back to London, obviously
(24:15):
there were certain rules. But I think if I was
honest and I've you know, I've spoken to about this anyway,
I think coming back home after five years, I was
a bit like, you can't really tell me what to do,
do you know what I mean? Like, we haven't lived
together for five years, so I think that dynamic was
quite hard on our relationship. I think I probably regressed.
(24:37):
I think I wasn't used to the fact that I
was back living under their roof, and I was like
very much a different person.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I remember once saying to my father I might have said.
This was before saying to my father when I was
thirty or twenty eight or whatever, and I've been living
in London and working, and my parents lived in the
New York and would stock and I once went home
and I was said to my dad, oh, I'm going
to leave the baby and going to New York tomorrow.
And he said, I don't think you should do that.
(25:08):
And I said, you know what, I live in London
and I work and I don't have to ask anybody's
you know, nice way said permission. But it's interesting that
when you know, I go home, I don't know whether
I'm a child or I'm an adult. And he said,
I'll make it really easy for you with the minute
you walk in that door, you're a child. And it
was actually quite nice because I thought, that's kind of
why I like going home, you know, is it suddenly
(25:30):
somebody's saying, you know, no one you stay here or whatever.
It was just interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
It's like a dance, isn't it. You have to learn
how to live with each other again.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
When you went to brunew What would you think of majoring?
What was your dat?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
That's why I finished, That's why I majored. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Did you eat out a lot? Did you party?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Did you yeah out all the time?
Speaker 4 (26:01):
To do.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
All the time?
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I mean we were so I was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, and lit were born in nineteen nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, So what did I finish school? Twenty ten? So yeah, yeah,
we had the best time. I worked as soon as
I kind of finished school, Madeling. There were bits of modeling,
but it wasn't there was like a different time, do
you know what I mean? So I worked in the shop,
I worked as a nanny. But we were so we
(26:32):
had so much fun, do you know what I mean?
We was like, I don't know how it is for you, Pearl,
but we just we were so carefree and mad and
doing our thing. And we were probably eighteen. Yeah, and
we all pile our money. Yeah, I mean just but
I just mean being young, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
It's like we weren't.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Bothered about kind of what clothes we were wearing or
anything like that. We didn't have the pressure of like
social media or anything like that. It was just about
being in a gang, do you know what I mean,
and roaming the streets and.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Mostly girls was it.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Mostly I've always been a girls girl.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
And we'd all put our money together and like share
one meal, like poor restaurants where we just sit for
hours and hours and hours outside kind of coffee shop,
sharing one coffee between like five of us, and they're like,
can you leave if you're not going to buy anything,
can you leave? Or we go to like kind of
my friend Josh Delissa, who might as well be my brother,
(27:26):
he had a restaurant called Boomberger. We'd go in there
get cheap prices. We had some Mexican restaurants around the area,
and we'd all put our money together to share like
kind of one plate of food, because I mean we
were quite naughty. We were spending our money on like
alcohol and going out, so we didn't really have a
massive interest in spending our money on food.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So modeling, when did that happen? I mean, how did
that happen?
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I mean I've been modeling on and off since I
was probably since I left school, so since I was eighteen.
I did a few bits and pieces like before, but
my mom was very strict about and my dad as
well about finishing school. Modeling kind of took quite a
long time to kind of take off, so that's why
(28:12):
I kind of worked.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Did you enjoy it?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah? I did. I think I've learned to like it more.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
I learned to like it when I as cheesy as
this sounds, when I started to like myself, to be
quite honest, you know, I mean that's when it became
more fun. And yes, there are days when I'm on
my period or I'm a bit exhausted, when I'm like,
this is literally the last thing I want to do,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
There's be like kind of.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Showcased in front of a bunch of people, and then
kind of it's like Instagram have to kind of and
then I start picking apart my kind of who I am,
you know what I mean, face value, not who I
am as a person actually, but I.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Can ask questions it what made you want to do
a podcast?
Speaker 4 (28:54):
I think it goes back to this this idea of storytelling,
I think, and the information out there on what lived
experience does in regards to stigma reduction and suicide reduction,
and so I couldn't think of a better place. There's
(29:15):
something about an honest conversation and honest chat. Yeah, there's
so much like intimacy within that and to just listen
to someone. And I think it really was that it's
like to talk to someone, to hear their side of
a story, to hear where they've come from and where
they're at and where they hope to be. I think
(29:36):
that's definitely the essence of having the podcast is that
idea that when we hear someone else's story, we're going
to feel less alone.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, so you will be talking about Girls Talk. Tell
me when the next series that you're so excited about
is coming out?
Speaker 4 (29:50):
So podcast, I'd say, just keep a lookout. It will
be towards the end of the year. Keep a look
out for September.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
How do we look for it?
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah, so just ground handles Girls Talk and my girls Talk,
gu are Ls Talk.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Do you listen to Girls Talk?
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (30:06):
I have, but to you, like, I love listening to
things that say, like, you know, I love this things
that's just like, yeah, that so should be said.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
That so to be spoken about more, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
People sphere of speaking out stops them from sins like
saying the truth, you know, as I really like about it,
you know, like speaking about grievouses or trauma or like
mental health, like all those types of things are just
not talked about enough.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Yeah, and I think I can't wait for the new
season to come out. I feel more grown up and
even more opinionated and even more confident. I find and
I don't know if this is because of social media
or cancel culture, that sometimes we're quite agreeable with each other,
and I want to have conversations that aren't always with
(30:53):
people that I agree with. I want to also learn
about things that I have no idea about, and I
want to sometimes have those uncomfortable conversations where I'm not
only kind of not necessarily agreeing with the other person,
but I'm also being checked about what I don't know
and the ways that I think about things.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (31:14):
And so we've kind of changed that and it's going
to be really cool. We've got some mega people on
the podcast. Yeah. I love hearing people's stories, you know,
I love meeting people, you know who different backgrounds exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Everybody comes in with a story. Look around it. I've
had people come in and say, ah, you know, look
how this fabulous restaurant and I've had such a hard
time lately, and I gave if you went to every table,
everybody would have a story a story about Yeah, but
you know, people, you know, we all think that you
see all these people and their lives are perfect, and
then you find out one that's just been divorced, or
(31:50):
they've had a kid with addiction, or they have everybody
has a story and so those smiling, happy faces, whether
you see them on Instagram or here. You know that
everybody has a story. And as you say, I love
walking around and just hearing a bit of the story
of saying hello. Do you think prayl that. Do you
think that's when when Edward talked about social media pressure,
do you think that exists now?
Speaker 6 (32:13):
I think, especially hearing about what you were saying about
how when you were a kids and used to like
it used to be much different to its now because
you don't have social media, and I think it really
affects more how people look at themselves because you're Instagram
and you've got TikTok and you've got all these things.
And if you don't have it, you're like not in
with the times. But if you do, then you're just
making yourself feel worse by yourself. But you can't be
(32:34):
like like for example, and people are like, oh, I
don't want social media.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
It's bad. People are down on you for it.
Speaker 6 (32:40):
But reality it's much better if you didn't have it,
like for you probably happier in those times than that
kids are.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Now because it's there's one thing, you know, getting to
know yourself and figuring out who you are over those
like thirteen to eighteen and then onwards.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
It was like such a confusing time and that that's
already like, you know, I was talking to these girls
the other day, like thirteen to fourteen, and that was
a question like what would you say to your younger self?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
And I would be, like I.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Used to scrutinize every single thing I did, the shoes
I wore, the way I wore my eyeliner, the way
my hair was, the way I carried my bag, the
way I walked, you know what I mean. I was
like always on my case about every single movement, and
I think I would tell everyone that you don't need
to do that. I wish i'd stop putting so much
(33:29):
pressure on myself, because you realize when your world gets
bigger than none of them truly matters, do you know
what I mean? And I think to add in the
pressure of having to kind of be perceived by other people,
it's like I already was kind of self conscious, so
to then have to kind of portray a person that
I maybe wasn't hadn't become yet, do you know what
(33:51):
I mean, Something that was maybe just kind of performative
would have been like an added pressure at that time.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And you know it happen is at any age, you know,
I can you know, we're talking to women's My husband
died a year and a half ago, and sometimes I
just look on Instagram, go, you know, another happy family,
you know, and the beach resorder, another grandparents with their
grand char I mean, I have that life, but you know,
it's very You can look at it in terms of
whether you're thin enough, whether you're you know, whether your
(34:22):
hair is as beautiful, whether you're a certain type with
the clothes you're wearing, the way you carry handbag, or
you can look at it in families and you can see,
you know, it just feels that there's I really I
never post from a vacation. I really, I knew that
a long time. Becau it's nothing worse than on a
day like today working and then you see somebody on there.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
You know, it's just it's like.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
There's a is it acting what you wanted to do
when you went to Brunel.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Yeah, that's from thirteen until eighteen.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
I did that at school and then I went on
to study that at Brunel and then kind of life
took a different direction, not only kind of personally, and
then it became something you know, then I kind of
fell into modeling and that started taking over. So I
kind of jumped on that bandwagon and that led me
to where I am now.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
And then I think.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Just before COVID, I made a kind of decision that
I wanted to give it another go, you know, I
wanted to put one hundred percent in it and see
where it would take me because I think when I
first left university had a different head of my shoulders
and my priorities were warped and I wasn't a very
happy person. So I didn't, you know, have the capability
(35:48):
or to give it one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So that's where I'm at now.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
I'm on that journey and I absolutely love it.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
It's ridiculously hard, respect to all.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
I would love to do theater one day, but at
the moment, it's it's TV infil Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
And now you're living in your own apartment. How is that?
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
It's really nice.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Do you have an open kitchen as well?
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, yeah, what's it like kitchen?
Speaker 4 (36:18):
It's my kitchen's yellow, blue and white tiles, I mean,
describe it. It's very much open I've got an island
in the middle that has like a kind of heart
boner engraved in it that my friend Jeff did. It's
got a massive, big, like kind of teak table with
matching chairs that I've posted in like Leopard Brint.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
How you like your parents? Do you like people coming
to you.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Instead of you going to the Yeah? I love it.
I mean I think to a certain extent.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
I grew up in an African household, so the idea
that we were going to spend the night at other
people's houses was like something that was like my dad
just did not understand. He's like, you have a bed,
you have a house, Like, why do you need to
go and stay at someone else's house. There was certain
people that we went to, but like eating at home
and sleeping at home has always been like a kind
of a priority.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
With a metal house, you know.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
I was talking to Pearl about it. Actually, I mean
I actually eating a lot. I now spend a lot
of time between London and la and when I was
working before COVID, I didn't really have the time to cook.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
It wasn't un necessarily a priority of mine.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
So I used to order a lot of takeaway and
I think after COVID, I started really prioritizing what was important,
so I did have more time. And so my boyfriend's
a really good cook. My sister lives with me and
she's an amazing cook. I like cooking if it's like
family or people who are really close to me.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I don't feel the pressure.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I'm not the idea of cooking for like ten people
or something that doesn't excite me. If I'm cooking for myself,
it's like simple things like fish and vegetable or eggs, soup,
you know, stuff like that. No I don't eat No, No,
I haven't eaten. You're Weirdly, I've started, like I think
(38:14):
I've just been listening to my body a bit more,
and so like if it's the time of the month
or something like that, I'm like, oh, I kind of
really feel like some me and I've never had that before.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
So I kind of am listening to my body a
bit more.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
But it's still very much like kind of in when
I'm cooking at home, especially in LA we have like
a tiny, tiny kitchen, so we're not gonna cook fish
because it would just make the whole house smile.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Like fish.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
The little flat we have so we cook a lot
of vegetarian stuff in LA and then at home, you know,
I have more space, and so we cook lots of
different things and have people around. I wish I I've
grown up in a household full of amazing cooks, my
cousins and amazing cook my aunt and my uncle everyone.
(39:03):
You know, they have recipes that were handwritten by my
grandma about certain things. Yeah. That, and I think I
remember my mom always say grandmother my mom's mom.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
I always remember my mom, like I mean, there were
there are many things that were kind of sad when
her mom died. But I think she always thinks about,
you know, when she needs answers on certain recipes. She
always thinks about the idea of calling my grandma. And
my dad is an amazing cook as well, and so
I should be more interested in it.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Well, I'm the cleaner.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I'm the cleaner.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, that's fine. I think everybody figures out I do
the dishes.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Well, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Do you remember when when it became possible for you
to go out to you to not think about how
much it cost.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
So I moved twenty seventeen, I moved to la when
I got sober, but I don't I wasn't eating out
that much, to be quite honest, I didn't have the
money I was. I'd kind of taken a year off
and my mum and dad were supporting me for the
first time in a long time, which I found like
(40:15):
kind of incredibly uncomfortable. So I kind of was under
a certain budget, do you know what I mean? And
I think probably maybe when I really could just like
go to the restaurants and come here and like pay
for myself. I probably was about twenty five, twenty five
(40:36):
and had.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Come from modeling or we're acting.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Or yeah, modeling, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a big change.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Yeah, moving to New York. Yeah, So I moved to
New York when I was twenty four. I had my
twenty fifth birthday in New York, and that's probably when
it started to change. You know. That's when I could
like order a takeaway or like go to this restaurant
called Lucienne and like we'll get my friend of meal
or you're.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Not alone in that, you know that It was something
that I was talked When I talked to David Beckham,
he said he remembered when he took Victoria and they
could actually, you know, I have to completely look at
the prices on the right hand side. Or Paul McCartney
saying that he thought wine was a horrible drink because
he could only afford the cheapest, cheapest, cheapest wine. Behichause
we know it is pretty hard. Wine was a horrible
(41:25):
drink until he went out with Brian you know, Epstein,
who was his manager, and they ordered a fantastic buddle
of the feet and thought, oh, that's what wine is.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
So the main thing is is I've never tried a
good glass of wine. Well never, yeah, no, but but
I got sober when I was twenty I got sober
when I was twenty two, so I wasn't like spending
the money and like we were going to the corner
shop and getting like a Caserillio dable, you know what
I mean, like a cheap bottle of tequila with a
hat on it. Yeah, And so I've never actually, you know,
(41:59):
I've never had had a like stunning cocktail.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
I've never had a like beautiful glass of wine.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
And it's fine, but it is mad to think that
I'm never actually because and to be honest, like that's
why I could probably like go and eat out, do
you know. I mean, I've never had the expense of
having to kind of buy alcohol.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
And I suppose you know for me that is you know,
we all have reasons why we eat the food we eat.
Food can be something you have when you're hungry, be
something that you have when you want to cook or
you want to entertain. It can be food can be
alleviation of pain or sadness. So I suppose that my
(42:39):
last question to you is what would you turn to
if you needed food for comfort?
Speaker 4 (42:45):
Hm, I go home, definitely. I don't know if it's
anything in particular. I think it would just be something
because by my mom and dad, anything that was put
in front of me would feel comforting.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
That's beautiful and beautiful. Wait to end a wonderful.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Thank you, Love.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
You, love you, love you, be We love you. Thanks,
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
The River Cafe Lookbook is now available in bookshops and online.
It has over one hundred recipes beautifully illustrated with photographs
from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book has fifty
delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a host of
River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted for new cooks.
(43:35):
The River Cafe Lookbook Recipes for Cooks of all ages.
Ruthie's Table four is a production of iHeart Radio and
Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Host
Ruth Rogers
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