May 22, 2024 • 58 mins
Fran Drescher is an American pop culture icon, having made her mark in the 1990s in the starring role of her sitcom, The Nanny. But Fran has faced her fair share of pain, too–pain that inspired some of her most impactful career pivots. In this special episode of She Pivots, recorded live at Lincoln Center, Fran discusses the inspiration for The Nanny, how she leveraged her international fame and personal fight with cancer to create Cancer Schmancer, and her experiences serving as President of SAG-AFTRA during the longest strike in the union’s history.
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She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Fran, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Fran Drescher.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted
these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Today I'm
delighted to share my interview with Fran Dresher, recorded live
(00:37):
at Lincoln Center. Yes, Lincoln Center, Yes, Fran Dresher. I
grew up near Lincoln Center on the Upper West Side
of New York and always attended the events, but I
never dreamed that I would someday be hosting a live
podcast recording there. And fun fact, the venue where the
live recording was held is where I used to vote.
(01:00):
A very full circle moment. For anyone who doesn't follow
us on Instagram or read our newsletter, which, by the way,
subscribe to our newsletter, it's amazing and missed me gushing
about Fran, I'll give you a little refresh. Fran was
best known for her role as Fran Fine in The Nanny,
which she created, produced, and earned multiple Emmy and Golden
Globe nominations for After success with the show, Her life
(01:22):
took a turn when she was diagnosed with uterine cancer
and altered both her trajectory and her perspective on life.
She went on to found Cancer Schmancer, turning pain into purpose.
As she famously says, she didn't stop pivoting there. She
became the president of the Screen Actors Guild and American
Federation of Television and Radio Artists sag AFTRA, which came
(01:43):
full circle after her parents instilled in appreciation and passion
for unions in her at an early age. Like so
many of our guests, her life and experiences built upon
each other, bringing her to perhaps one of the most
important moments in sag after history, the strike of twenty two.
She led the union in negotiating a historic deal, utilizing
(02:04):
every skill and lesson she had learned over the years.
So if you're a friend fan, you already know this
conversation was an absolute delight. She is unapologetically herself and
unequivocally brilliant.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Enjoy good evening, everyone, Good evening, So nice to have
you here at the David Rubinstein Atriam. My name is Jordana,
I'm the vice president of Programming here and we are
so thrilled to have you out for tonight's event.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So we're really.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Excited to be part of this podcast series that we're
doing and to have she Pivots here tonight. I'm going
to actually introduce us now to our host. Emily Tish Susman,
is the woman who created she Pivots, and so I'm
very excited to share a little bit about her. She
has interviewed and uplifted the stories of so many amazing women,
(02:56):
from Vice President Kamala Harris to Misty Copeland to Stacy London.
She Pivots highlights the personal aspects of our pivots, and
we are so excited to be part of this furthering
important conversations and exciting stories. Please help me welcome Emily
Tish Susman to the stage.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Thank you so much for that incredible introduction.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I could not be more excited to be at Lincoln Center.
As you guys heard, I'm Emily Tish Susman, the founder, creator,
and host of she Pivots, the podcast where we have
conversations about how the personal impacts the professional, and it
really could not feel more natural, more comfortable, and honestly
(03:41):
more flattering to be here at Lincoln Center.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I grew up in this neighborhood. This is where I voted.
So I think that basically really rings in full circle.
And tonight we have I mean, talk about iconic New
York Right tonight we have the most iconic New Yorker
we know and love her as Fran Fine, the lead
(04:04):
character of The Nanny. Do we also know that she
created it? She wrote it. She was nominated for Emmy's
for Golden Globes for Best Actress. And she didn't stop there.
She started cancer Schmancer, having an impact on wellness, and
in twenty twenty one she became the president of Sagastrodom.
It makes me want to cry. Guys, I'm so improved
(04:26):
by fran Fine. She negotiated a moment that we all
needed hope and we all needed a future for the arts.
She was our leader. So I'm so incredibly honored to
welcome the real Fran Fine. And maybe she'll even laugh
for us. Fran Dresser, she.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Rush to push, so st thank you, thank you, what
(05:10):
a warm welcome. Thank you all, thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Okay, this is going to sound like a silly question
after that introduction, but this is for the people at home.
What is your name and what do you do?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
My name is Fran Dresher, And what don't I do?
That's the real question.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
But I'm best known for the role of the Nanny
on television. It's still playing after thirty years and stronger
than ever, quite honestly, and currently I'm the president of SEGA,
after the largest entertainment union in the world.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Okay, so take us back, young Fran New Yorker, but
paint us a little picture, like what was it like?
Did you actually grow up in Flush and Queens.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Yes, there's a lot about the show that's based off
of my real story, and growing up in Flushing, Queens
is accurate. And those characters that we wrote about for
friend Fine were based off of all the joyful and
colorful characters that I grew up with. And I have
(06:24):
to say that it was a wonderful place to come from,
and back then it was really a charming, little provincial town.
And Simon and Garfunkle grew up in my neighborhood, and
that song in My Little Town was based off of
where I grew up.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Oh, have you ever gotten to talk to them about it?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
No, not about that specifically, but.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
Paul Simon's mom was Peter Jacobson, my ex husband's first
grade teacher, and then she came to our wedding. So
all those years later, and Jerry Steinfeld came from the neighborhood,
and we all went to Queen's College and Ray Romano
was in my graduating class at Hill Christ Tie.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh my god, your high school like dominated pop culture
for a period.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Of time, I now, and a lot of people actually
came out of Queen Cyndy Lauper.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, so you mentioned Peter, Yeah, very night. So you
guys were high school sweethearts and married at twenty one,
which seems young to me, Like did it feel normal
to you guys?
Speaker 5 (07:36):
It felt normal at the time, but now it seems
way too young and crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Wouldn't rarely recommend it, But you know, back then, and
we're going way back, I think that we came from
a very traditional kind of background and people did get
married when they met their one.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, and you two moved to Hollywood together to take
it on. Did it feel like you kind of were
like partners in this joint venture like taken on Entertainment?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yes, always.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
I mean we were written up about in the eighties
as the next Lucy and Deisi so, and we really
hadn't accomplished anything then. It was just like a quirk
of faith that the writer met us and thought we
were adorable and sold the idea to New York Magazine.
But it was really a decade later that we really
(08:35):
did start functioning like Lucy and Deisi did by having
our own show and going to the studio and producing
it and starring in it.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
All of that well, so set the scene for us,
like the early Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
You've moved you.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
You're getting situated. I mean, did you work other jobs?
Did you start working with an actor?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Did give us.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
I didn't work other jobs. I mean I did. I
did go to beauty culture school. I put in my
thousand hours in case the acting didn't work out, but
fortunately it did. But I used to cut my friend's
hair for like five bucks or something, and some of them,
the struggling actors, I cut for free. And back then
(09:19):
it was you know, David Caruso and Dennis Quaid, and
I knew where everybody's.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Ball swat was.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
But you know, I think that those were really wonderful years.
I mean, I think we all felt like we were
going to make it. Yeah, and we sort of gravitated
towards each other and it was just some I don't know,
I think that from my point of view, I.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Always felt like I should get.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
The job, and if I don't get it, they made
a mistake. I always entered the room with a great
deal of com confidence and self assurance. And it was
at a time when the popular shows on TV was
Welcome Back, Cotterer and Laverne and Shirley and Happy Days.
(10:13):
So there were those characters that were like urban, kind
of New York, flatbush, fungo type characters, and so I
sort of fit right into that sweet spot.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
And I started working almost immediately.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
I mean I went out there to shoot American Hot Wax,
playing opposite Jay Leno, who was then an unknown, young
up and coming comic, and that was a big rock
and roll movie that we did together.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And that was kind of the beginning.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
I went out there to do the movie for ten weeks,
but that turned into a permanent residence.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Were there some of those relationships from like the earliest
days that ended up becoming really fruitful for you later on?
Speaker 5 (11:05):
Well, you know, I worked for CBS quite a bit.
I did this pilot that didn't get picked up that
pilot this guest role, a short lived series that went
nowhere up to four episodes, and you were thinking, oh,
those idiots, And I was thinking, you know, I'm done
(11:25):
playing the nutty neighbor. I'm done being now like the
hooker with the heart of gold. And I really want
to get myself on the inside and develop my own
brand of comedy and be in a star vehicle for me,
(11:46):
or I was going to get out of the business. Oh,
and I gave myself five years to get on the
inside in a big way, because you.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Know, struggling is not my gym.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
I really had my heart set on success and if
I wasn't going to get it here, I would go
find it somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But once I, you.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Know, manifested that I was going to create my own
show and actually become like Lucie Ball in those you know,
in that way, you begin to see the opportunities presenting themselves.
And I happened to be on a plane going to
(12:31):
visit a girlfriend by myself, which was the first trip
I'd ever taken to Europe all by myself without Peter,
and on the plane was the president of CBS, Jeff Siganski.
So Jeff was somebody that was the president of CBS,
and he kept popping in to my radar because I
(12:54):
kept doing all these little, you know, like performances, these
smaller parts.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
It's third bananas, we call them.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
And he said to me, you know, I said, Jeff,
and he said Fran and I thought, thank you, Lord,
and I ran into the bathroom for some makeup on
and when I came out, I started talking to him
and I, you know, he said, oh this, we're doing
a ton of pilots.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Something will come down the pike for you. I'm sure
of it.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
And I said, you know, you're never going to find
anything that fits me hands in glove because I'm too unique.
And you should really listen to some of the pitches
that Peter and I have for me, because we know
my brand of comedy better than anyone. And nine and
a half hours later, he said, Okay, when we get
(13:47):
back to Los Angeles, call my office and I'll set
you up with our head of comedy development. And on
that trip, even though we had already been dabbling and developing.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
I did is.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
It wasn't a nanny, but on the trip I was
spending time with Twiggy, the one and only who was
in that short lived series with me and Julie Agony,
and I was staying with her and her husband and
her daughter, Carly, who was like twelve ath time, and
(14:21):
Twiggy and her husband Lee were working, so Carly was
free and I slept her.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
All over London, you know.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
All of a sudden, the kids says, oh, friend, my
new shoes are hurting me.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And I'm thinking, what the hell is she telling me for?
Speaker 5 (14:36):
And then I thought, oh, God, don't tell me she
wants to go home, because we.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Just got here.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
So I said to Honey, step on the backs of him,
and she says, innocently, won't that break them?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
And I said break them in?
Speaker 5 (14:51):
And I thought to myself, Wow, this is a very
funny relationship because I'm not telling that what's good for her.
I'm telling that what's good for me. Oh, it's a
very unconventional caregiver. And I called Peter in the middle
of the night because I couldn't get the idea out
of my head. And I said, then, what do you
think about a spin on the sound of music? Only
he said at Julian Andres I come to the door
(15:14):
and he thought for a brief moment, but he has
a very good sense for these things, and he said,
that's it. That's the one we'll pitch the CBS. When
you come back, we'll develop it a little bit more
and we'll go in with it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And that was the line that we.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Pitched to them, and they basically greenlighted the idea the
day we pitched it.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I feel we've given a round of applause, like that's unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
Yeah, it's just you know, when it's right, it's right
when it comes together, but you have to copy dim,
you know, right, And that's what's the most important thing
in life, is recognizing when opportunity knocks and then pushing
yourself into the situation and not getting in your way.
You know, that's a big lifeless and I learned very
(16:00):
early in my career, don't get in your way. Just
dive in headfirst, give one hundred and fifty percent so
you walk away without any regrets, and if you don't
get it, you know, it's their loss.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah. I love that. But just for good measure, what
were some of the other concepts, just so we know.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Well we were kind of doing.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
We came up with an idea about all of these
couples based off of.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Our friends and us.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
And there was an older couple who was our manager
and her husband, and then there were a couple of
friends and they were all different and they were all
based off of our real life friends. But what we
didn't know was that CBS was really searching for an
eight o'clock family show, and everybody was trying to get
(16:51):
into that nine o'clock nine thirty time slot that Seinfeld
had really established and made very c it for writers
to want to write in the Window because it was
able to be more adult. But when we pitched the Nanny,
they were thinking, oh my god, this is like eight
(17:12):
o'clock written all over it. It's got kids in it
and you know friend dresser. So it just was meant
to be.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
But you did get some pushback from the studio. It
was meant to be, but you did get some pushback
from the studio about having your character be Jewish.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
Well, it wasn't really the studio. We actually picked the studio.
They didn't sell it. We went straight to Network because
I met you know, Jeff on the plane. But Jeff
had called and called me and said we have the
While we were writing the pilot that we have an
(17:53):
opportunity to sell the show outright to Procter and Gamble,
which is a great thing because then you know that
show's getting picked up because all the airtime is already
brought up by a major sponsor. And they would do
that if the character was written Italian and not Jewish.
(18:13):
And we knew that we had to write the character
Jewish because it's a very fast medium, and so it
was very important that I'm able to place something that's
riches specificity, which is my brand of comedy, not try
to be something that isn't really fit, you know, like
(18:34):
suits me hand in glove that I know without even
thinking about it, without even trying to decide how I'm
going to do this or how I'm going to say that,
and then writing it too. You know, we can write
our mother's voice with our eyes closed in our sleep,
but an Italian mom maybe not the same. So even
(18:55):
though this was our big opportunity to do it our way,
and we knew that otherwise if it failed, we would
have that horrible feeling of regret. Why did we listen
to them? We should have followed our instincts. So I
said that you know, fran Fine has to be Jewish,
(19:16):
and by the grace of God, they said okay. And
actually that character was the first openly Jewish lead in
prime time played by a Jewish actor in nineteen ninety three,
since Molly Goldberg did it in nineteen forty eight. And
for all those years, they were feeling like it was
(19:39):
gilding the lily and let's write it Italian or let's
get you know, a gentile woman or man to play
a Jewish character, which he saw a lot of and
Valerie Harper, you know, wasn't Jewish, and it just you
(20:00):
saw it over and over again throughout television. But this
was definitely the turning point.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, you and Peter worked together, you were married. Then
did it create I mean, what did you do to
your personal dynamic? You know, I'm going to keep bringing
it back to that. Yeah, what did the success of
the show due to your personal dynamic? I mean, you
were the star? Was that the relationship you had always had?
(20:29):
Did it change your dynamic?
Speaker 5 (20:31):
I know because he's you know, was always a producer
and the head writer and executive producer, and he he
helped make me a star.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
He knows what.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
My strengths are and he works towards that. Yeah, so
I think that it was definitely a combined effort that
took too Yeah, and so not to say that we
didn't have some marital problems before the show began, and
(21:07):
then when the show happened, that kind of went onto
a back burner because it was so big and.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Exciting and it was such a shift for us.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
But over the years that the show was on the air,
the problems began to rear their ugly head, and eventually,
by towards the end of the series, we had separated,
which made working together very difficult.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
But we didn't want to throw.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
The baby out with the bath water, and the show
was our baby, and so we tried to keep it
healthy in spite of ourselves.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, do you think I mean, it's very clear that
so much of your personal life and your family impacted
your professional life in creating the show and was reflected
in the show. Do you think that it kind of
worked in the inverse as well? Like, do you think
that your personal life ended up being impacted by the show?
Speaker 5 (22:02):
I mean, look, when you have a huge hit and
you become so famous so quickly, it's going to impact
every part of your life.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
But we had a lot of famous friends.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
Even dan Ackroight had said to us when the series
got picked up, and he said, you know, your lives
are going to change, and you're going to put a
lot of effort into protecting your privacy and your safety,
and just be aware of that and otherwise, you know,
(22:39):
it can be a very fun ride, but you just
have to be able to find those times when it
can be quiet and be private.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
The Nanny went on to become one of the most
popular sitcoms of all time, but behind it all, Rand
dealt with a series of extremely difficult experiences. Before the
show even aired. Fran was the victim of a horrible
and violent attack in her own home in nineteen eighty five.
It was an experience that created emotional ripples throughout her life,
(23:14):
and when we come back, Fran talks through how that
experience and others shaped her perspective on life and ultimately
led her to pivot. Now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
You know, I was a victim of violent crime in
my own home by a man who is on parole,
and my girlfriend was there at the time, and Peter
was there at the time, and there was a horrible
situation that really left us emotionally traumatized for a long time.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
But that happened before The Nanny.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
It was during the Nanny that somehow that story was
exploited on some of those magazine shows on television, and
at that point people were watching it thinking that it
just happened instead of like ten years earlier.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And so I had a.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Very visceral response to that, and almost I think I
had a bit of a nervous breakdown because I think
there was a lot about that experience I hadn't really
fully dealt with.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
And so.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
It was around that time that I had started therapy
because the marriage was beginning to fail, and then I
was fortunately already in therapy where I could really discuss
what went down and try and identify how it's impacted.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
My life now. And even years after that.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
I realized that I don't do a lot of things
by myself, and I never had connected it to that,
but once I did, I started making modifications. I have
a big service animal, and you know, I just I
want to live my life. And you know, once you
(25:23):
wake up and smell the coffee, it's hard to go
back to sleep. So I am living my life as
fully as I can, and no one.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Leaves this planet unscathed.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
It's what we do with it, how we grow through it,
and what becomes of us as a result, that makes
all the difference. And for me, turning pain into purpose
is extremely healing.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So you were diagnosed with cancer, you had a hysterectomy,
and then you launched your organization Cancer Schmanzer, right, So
what pushed you not just to launch it, but also
to focus it the way that you do well?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You know?
Speaker 5 (26:04):
I always said, even through this strike, I'm a systems
analyst's daughter. So even though we started, the cornerstone of
the organization was.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Early detection because I was very lucky.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Even after two years and eight doctors of misdiagnosis, I
was still in stage one catching on arrival in ninety
five percent survival. So I wanted to empower patients to
become medical consumers, to learn what the early warning whispers
(26:40):
are of cancers and what tests are available so you
can become better partners with your doctor, because all too
often doctors are very busy people their bludgeoned by big
business health insurance to go to the least expensive route
of diagnostic testing and many of them seem to subscribe
(27:02):
to this philosophy. If you hear who's galloping, don't look
for zebra. It's probably a horse. But I was a
zebra because I was really too young and too thin
to have uterine cancer. Although one out of four women,
or twenty five percent, are young in thin, so to me,
(27:23):
that seemed like I should have been tested for that.
But doctor number one said I was too young, and
I'm like an idiot. I didn't ask her, well, what
would it prove a disproof taking an endometrio biopsy?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I just was glad to be too young for anything.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
But in reality, if I were a medical consumer, which
I was starting to train other people to be, motivate
activate educate patients into medical consumers, I would have known
to ask that question. I wouldn't have been so easily flattered,
and I would have said, no, let's do it, even
(28:04):
if I have to pay for it myself. And I
tell people you use your Christmas Club account for tests
your insurance won't pay for, because the best gift you
can give your friends and family is a long and
healthy life. But that was only the beginning for kancer schmanca,
because as time went on and I did get a
(28:25):
bill passed by unanimous consent in Washington, which means all
one hundred senators said yes.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Fran and.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
That was written up twice in the Congressional record. And
from there I was appointed a Public Diplomacy Envoy for
the US State Department, which is a vetted position to
speak to our allied nations on taking control of your
body and becoming a medical consumer. And I also spoke
to our military basis around the world well, and so
(29:02):
you know, this is really turning my pain into purpose
and helping people to realize that education and knowledge is power,
and it's really important that we take control of our bodies,
that we are the ones in charge. Because you know,
when the doctor calls and tells you have cancer, at
the end of the day, he goes home and eats
(29:24):
dinner with his family. You go home and eat your
heart out with yours. So it's your life to charge.
And just when you feel like I'm too scared and
you become infantile, that's exactly when you have to pull
yourself up by your bootsteps and really pay attention to
what's going on. So that was the beginning of it,
(29:44):
But then I started asking why are we getting cancer
in the first place?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
What's this about?
Speaker 5 (29:49):
I mean, rather than be symptomatic and reductionist in how
we treat the end stage, which is cancer or a
long history of inflammation, why don't we catch it at
the inflammation stage and understand what's causing the inflammation.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Let's not get cancer in the first place. How's that
for a cure?
Speaker 5 (30:12):
Right, So, Cancer Schmancer pivoted and became very focused on causation,
and nobody really in the health space was doing that,
and they're still not doing it. Quite frankly, I'm not
asking people for money to find a cure. We've been
(30:33):
looking for a cue since Nixon waged the war in cancer.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Where's the cure? Well, you can't put out a fire.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
By throwing water on it from one side. If you
continue to throw kerosene on it from the other side,
you have to stop throwing the kerosene on it. And
we live in extremely toxic times. So at Cancer Schmancer
we developed a very progressive program called Detox Your Home
because the home is the most toxic place we spend
(31:00):
the most time and ironically have the most control over.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
And what we do now.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Is take mindless consumerism and convert it into mindful consumerism.
So you use your hard earned dollars to support companies
that are not going to make you sick because you
know better because you follow the cancers man supplan. So
(31:34):
these are Once you learn these systems in your body,
you're not going to just stay with THEE and symptom.
It's silly to do that. You got to track that train.
You got to get to the beginning. You got to
see what you may be doing that's hurting you and
pay attention because your body is screaming at you. And
(31:57):
instead of muzzling it with a symptom suppressor, which is
very common in today's Western medicine and very profitable, by
the way, and filled with side effects, start looking at
what the causation is.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Track the train, get to.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
The root of the problem, and cut it out of
your life. I don't drink alcohol anymore. It causes too
much inflammation in me. It's not that I had a
drinking problem. It's not that I didn't enjoy an expensive
glass of wine now and then, but I don't like
the way I feel the next day. I have to
listen to my body. You know, when something if I
(32:35):
get the inflammation. I could take an anti inflammatory, but
then I'm just muzzling the symptom and I'm not really
helping my body heal. The body is trying to heal itself.
The inflammation, as annoying as it may be, is actually
going to the source that has a problem. So we
(32:58):
have to start working with our body instead of working
against it. And I find all too often, thanks to
the twentieth century, we tend to work against nature, and
we have to stop doing that. We have to work
with nature and embrace it and listen to it and
not make what you think the most important deciding factor,
(33:23):
because the brain is the worst roommate in the body,
and everything else, you know, like takes a back seat,
but it shouldn't. You got to listen very closely and
be ingratitude to every part of your body and honor it.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Honor your body.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But you almost had a totally different pivot. There were
conversations for you to run for senate here in New York,
which I think right now we're all in favor of
ha ha. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
I have to tell you, you know, even when I became
president of sag Aftra, I knew I would be good
at it. My whole life led up to having the
qualifications to lead in that way, and I am good
at it. But it's not a joyful experience. It's empowering,
(34:13):
it's a lot of stress. It's you know, exactly as
Lincoln said, you can play some of the people all
of the time and all of the people some of
the time, but you can't please all of the people
all of the time.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
And you know, it just.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Depends on how much aggravation and stress you can really take.
And I feel like I'm at a stage in my
life where I would like to have it easier and
more joyful. I wasn't even planning on running a second time.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
And everybody knew it.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
But when this negotiation started and it looked like we
were probably going to end up striking, there was no
way that another president could step in, you know, right
in the middle of this major event in our nation's history,
and I was leading it.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I was the one that, you know.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Really decided this was going to be a seminal negotiation.
I was the one that decided we needed to get
our hooks into a new stream of revenue because it
was such a new business model. Again, being the daughter
of a systems analyst. I saw the system and where
it was weak and where it was broken, and I
(35:30):
had to convince my own you know, members and negotiating
staff to really push themselves. I was not going to
accept incremental changes, not this time, and so I had
to remain president. And for the first time in the
Union's history, you know, they didn't run anybody against me
(35:55):
from the opposition party. That both parties came together and
started a unity ticket just to keep me in office.
And so I just slid back in without you know,
much that I would have to do, like campaign or
debate or anything, and need to do that.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Well, you had a quote much like you just said
that sag after a leading sag after was a defining
moment and the amalgam of my life experience, everything good, bad,
the worst of it, the best of it, my ego
as a star, all of it. Everything went into this
one moment of truth and thank god it paid.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Off, otherwise woe is me.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
But could you be a little specific, like what were
those experiences that you felt like prepared you for this moment?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Well, you know, I've been a boss for decades.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
You know, when you're an executive producer, you run things,
and I liked to do that, so I know how
to lead. I started my own organization. You know, people
get cancer, they don't turn it into a cottage industry,
but I did that. I wanted to exemplify what survival
(37:16):
could look like, and I wanted to help people to
look at their health and their body through a different lens.
So I organized. And what are we at a union
but an organization of members who come together to make
a difference. And I'm a best selling author, I have
(37:42):
to do a lot of writing. And you know, they
at the union were always writing things for me, and
I said, no, no, I write my own speeches, I
write my own articles. I'm a one man band and
I'm a public speaker, so that comes in very handy.
I'm a household name and I'm highly recognizable around the world.
(38:06):
So that elevated the union exponentially because suddenly we were
getting invited to things that the union was never invited to.
And that was because of my celebrity. But then after
the strike and the historic billion dollar deal, now I
(38:30):
get invited because I'm the president of a labor union
and I led a strike that awakened labor around the world,
and my strike speech got over twelve billion impressions. So
it started what became the hot labor Summer. There were
(38:53):
strikes everywhere around the world. That strike speech woke everybody
up like the emper new clothes, and they went from
feeling oppressed and living a quiet desperation to becoming empowered
and feeling like we could do this too. And that
(39:14):
was a strategy that I chose to take when we
went on strike, that it wasn't just us. We were
in the forefront of a labor battle that with millions
of people.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Behind us and all around the world.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Because you know, we have to be very careful that
corporations and Wall Street never dismiss workers, never disrespect workers,
and never feel like they are replaceable by machines, rendering them,
(39:50):
you know, out of business, out of work. So that's
the things that we were fighting for, and it with
a lot of different people.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, you said right before this, when we were backstage,
you said this was the right hill to die on. Yes, yeah,
Can you tell us more about that and how you
took the weight of the industry in your head and
behind you at those negotiating conversations.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, it was in.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
Nineteen sixty, when Ronald Reagan was president of SEG that
they went to the map to get actors for the
first time in history. Pension, health coverage over time, you know,
and residuals. None of that existed before nineteen sixty and
(40:42):
between nineteen sixty and twenty twenty three, that was the
contract that we were using. Jess always trying to incrementally
improve it. But something different happened along the way, and
that was AI and streaming, and the introduction of those
(41:04):
two elements changed the conversation so significantly that there was
no way that I was going to go into this
negotiation talking about a contract that was forged in nineteen sixty.
That world has changed so much, Entertainment has changed so much,
(41:25):
communication has changed so much, and it demanded a new contract,
and I commanded it of our opposition, and you know,
at first they were aggressive in their resistance, but at
some point they realized that either they were going to
(41:48):
lean in or they were going to lose very big
because they knew that I wasn't kidding around.
Speaker 6 (41:56):
Yeah, I believe that I was on the right side
of history, and they understood that the jig was up
for them.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Fran rallied actors around the world, negotiating a historic deal
for sag Astra, valued at more than one billion dollars
over three years. When we come back, Fran talks about
how different the public pressure was compared to when The
Nanny was airing. We're back with Fran talking about her
(42:32):
experience dealing with the public pressure of the sag after negotiations,
she felt the gravity of her role. After a video
of her speech went viral.
Speaker 5 (42:41):
This amplified it onto another level because when you say
a speech that gets twelve billion impressions, now suddenly people
aren't just stopping me and saying, oh, I love you
on the Nanny or even how are you feeling these days,
(43:01):
but thanking me, whether it be a nurse or a trucker,
a hospitality worker.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Everywhere I go people saw.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
That and said thank you, thank you for sticking up
for labor, for sticking up for workers. So that's like
a whole new thing. It's even bigger than the Nanny.
I never thought I could really tap the Nanny, but
somehow this really has because it just you know, put
(43:39):
it in a whole new stratosphere. Yeah, and I'm very
proud of that. Because I'm always defending the underdog. I'm
always going to the match for those that are marginalized.
So that was another thing that kind of supported me
doing this is what I do. And even in The Nanny,
(44:02):
you know, it kept coming up some of the episodes
that we did us that friend wouldn't cross a picket
line and you know, things like that, because we always
In The Beautician and the Beast, you know, she like
couldn't believe that this country that she was working as
a teacher didn't have unions and people didn't get over time.
(44:25):
And so I think that this character that I've become
known for has always been infused with something that my
father instilled in me, which is being sensitive to people's
needs and not being impressed by people who have money,
but by people who have character.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Thank you for reminding me about The Beaudition and The Beast.
I really loved that movie. You talk a lot about
your purpose through this piece. How did your purpose change?
We understand where there's where it was the same, like
you've always been yourself, And it turns out it's very
convenient when you're true to your own values. People can
pull up those episodes and it's not only not embarrassing,
it feels great. But how has your north star, like
(45:12):
your purpose changed as you've gone through these different phases
of your life.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
Well, I think that you know, when you go through
troubled waters, you become more empathic to other people's pain.
And I'm very much an EmPATH now in a way
that I'm not sure I was. I was a fighter
on the side of good, but now I really feel
(45:40):
the pay other people's pain and that it's hard to
be an EmPATH. It's not something I chose to be,
but I morphed into that through my own life experience,
and so my ability to shape whatever I'm doing is
(46:02):
sifted through that lens of other people's pain. So it's
interesting and I think that it deepens you as a
human being.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, you know, a.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Core part of the conversations that we have in this
show is that how everything builds upon itself, Like we're
not just sort of born these successes, but that we
have to have gone through these different phases to then
be the piece that everybody sees this success. Do you
think you could walk us through some of those steps
for you to be the success that you are today.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
Well, I think it would have to begin with my parents,
because they were very nurturing, loving people. I got to
witness a beautiful marriage in them. My bedroom wall was
shared with their bedroom wall, and I remember a lot
of laughing and giggling on the other side of that wall,
(47:00):
And it makes a kid feel warm and fuzzy inside
when that's the music that you hear as you're drifting
off to sleep. And my mom was the one that
said to me, you don't need to take typing because
you're going to have a secretary. And I still can't
type because I never did take it, and I do
(47:22):
have a secretary. So you know, that kind of belief
in a child is as I get older and I
get to know my friend's personal stories, it's very rare
and I can really appreciate how blessed I was to
(47:43):
have that foundation and to have people that really hung
on every word and really thought that I could do
anything and did not dissuade me from wanting to become
an actress, but truly believe that I had star quality
and if anybody could make it, friend could.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
So you know, it's an interesting.
Speaker 5 (48:07):
Beginning. And I've heard other people say once in a
while that the parents would always say, you're such a genius,
is such a genius, and they said, I felt like
I had to be I didn't want to disappoint them.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I had to be a success.
Speaker 5 (48:26):
I had to be a genius because they believed in
me so so believing in your kid and making them
feel like everything that they do has value and nurture
what their you know, what their's things are is really important.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
And that really was the beginning.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
But then once I got older and I moved to California,
I met a fantastic woman that I was very blessed
to meet, Elaine Rich, who became my manager. And she
wouldn't have been as good a parent as my parents were,
but she was an excellent manager and dear friend once
(49:03):
I was already formed, and I bless her. And she's
since passed away and I miss her. But she always
said to me, even when I couldn't afford a headshot,
she said, I'll pay for your pictures and I said, no,
I don't want you to do that. And she said, honey,
you're like a blue chip stock. I ain't going to
lose on my investment with you. And you know she
(49:26):
was right.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
I mean, we.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Made her a lot of money, and she believed in
me when I wasn't making a lot of money. So
you know, people like that along the way do make
a difference for you, and the more people that believe
in you, they become like your She always described yourself
(49:49):
as my prime minister. And then you know, the agents
were kind of the generals the army, and you need.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
It really does take a.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
Village, and so I have to say that I was
lucky that and continue to be so that there are
people that believe in me and believe in what I
have to say and allow me to be me and
not try and put me into a box because I
(50:25):
don't fit in a box and I don't want to
be in a box. I just want to be me.
And even with the strike, I realized that I had
a bigger responsibility, which was to show women and girls
what female leadership could look like. And that became very
important to me because I wanted to be me and
(50:49):
not emulate masculine energy, be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I would quote Buddhist wisdom.
Speaker 5 (50:55):
I had a little heart shaped plushy toy that a
little girl who loves me gave me for support, and
I always sat it down in front of me at
the negotiating table. And there was a point when the
opposition had hired a big DCPR firm who does crisis
(51:17):
management for bad guys with a lot of money, and
right away they went for the lowest hanging fruit. Let's
discredit the female, the woman leader, and you know, and
they tried to I was too domineering or obstinate because
I stood my ground. I was too frivolous because I
(51:40):
quoted Buddhist wisdom. I was unprofessional because I had a
little plushy toy in the room with me. And my
advisors at the union said let's just say no comment,
and I said no to that. I'm going to meet
this head one armed only with my authenticity and my
(52:03):
unabashed honesty. And I did a self taped video of
me putting my makeup on, as so many women do
before while getting ready for work, and I said, you know,
I don't have to emulate mail energy to lead. I
can lead with intellect and wisdom and empathy. I can
(52:26):
lead and still rock a red lip. I can lead
and be me and still have a little heart shape
plushy toy on my negotiating table. And that went viral
and stop the opposition's tactics dead in their tracks because
(52:47):
it rendered it ineffective.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Okay, So I asked this question of all of my guests,
what is one thing that at the time you really
felt like was a negative? Like you're like, I'm not
sure how many get out of this, And now, in hindsight,
you see it as having maybe launched you, or at
least set you up for the success that you are now.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Well.
Speaker 5 (53:12):
I think that there was a passage in my career
early on when I was getting convinced that I would
work more if I can fit into more of an
assortment of parts, and I would have to, you know,
not sound like this. And I actually tried to learn.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
How to speak and what my dialect.
Speaker 5 (53:42):
Coach called low slow flow. And I went on an
audition for back Then The Winds of War, And when
my manager called to see how I did, they said,
you know, she sounded okay, but she talked very slow,
(54:05):
and it's only an eighteen hour miniseries a Lane, So
of course I didn't get the part. I was so
focused on something that wasn't natural or organic to me
that I lost my whole personality. And then I realized,
you know, I'm going to figure out how to monetize
(54:25):
this because it's unique and it's my own and I
don't care if every character I play comes from New York.
As long as I can explore different emotions and different
life experiences and challenges, I'm.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Good with that.
Speaker 5 (54:43):
I don't have to be Meryl Streep, though, God bless her,
it would be nice, but that's not my jam. You know,
I'm not Meryl Streep. I'm Frien.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah. Yes, we're so glad you are.
Speaker 5 (54:58):
But you know, honestly, I needed to wear a lot
of different hats anyway. I wouldn't be happy only being
an actor. It's not enough. I need to do other things.
I want to write, I want to produce, I want
to direct, you know. I like to wear a lot
of different hats. I like to try new things. I
(55:18):
like to fly.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
Without a net.
Speaker 5 (55:20):
But I don't need to stay in it forever. I
want to master it. I want to succeed in it,
and then bye bye. I don't need to make it
my life's mission. And so you know, I find life
a lot of fun in that way if I can
do a lot of different things. And I think that's
why I went into show business in the first place,
(55:42):
because the idea for me of doing like a nine
to five job going to the same place, I don't
think I couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, a perfect segue into our final question. Oh, I know,
I've had so much fun. Do you think you'll piv again?
Speaker 1 (56:01):
Undoubtedly I will, you know.
Speaker 5 (56:05):
I mean, that's what the joy of my life is
is to fly through new windows and learn new things.
I love learning things and I like challenging myself or
I start to get bored. So I definitely definitely will.
(56:25):
And what it will be, I'm not sure, but I
know I'm going to start putting pen to paper and
writing another book. And there's a big story to share
subsequent to the last book, which was Cancer Schmancer, and
it's time that I shared it.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you for inviting me.
Thank you Live she Pivots and Lincoln Center. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
Friend appreciated, thank you.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
She Pivots. Fran continues to serve as the president of
sag Aftra and is heavily involved in her nonprofit, Cancer Schmancer,
and she somehow still has time to write a book
on the side. Be sure to follow Frin on Instagram
at official fran Dresser and visit our website to donate
(57:20):
to Cancer Schmancer and learn all about the good work
they're doing. Thanks for listening to this episode of She Pivots.
If you made it this far, you're a true pivoter,
so thanks for being part of this community. I hope
you enjoyed this episode, and if you did leave us
a rating, please be nice. Tell your friends about us.
To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
(57:41):
at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content,
or on our website she Pivots the Podcast Talk to
You Next Week special thanks to the she Pivots team,
Executive producer Emily eda Velosk, Associate producer and social media
connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and logistics
(58:05):
coordinator Madeline Sonoviak, and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock
I endorse Cheap Pivots
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Fran Drescher.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted
these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Today I'm
delighted to share my interview with Fran Dresher, recorded live
(00:37):
at Lincoln Center. Yes, Lincoln Center, Yes, Fran Dresher. I
grew up near Lincoln Center on the Upper West Side
of New York and always attended the events, but I
never dreamed that I would someday be hosting a live
podcast recording there. And fun fact, the venue where the
live recording was held is where I used to vote.
(01:00):
A very full circle moment. For anyone who doesn't follow
us on Instagram or read our newsletter, which, by the way,
subscribe to our newsletter, it's amazing and missed me gushing
about Fran, I'll give you a little refresh. Fran was
best known for her role as Fran Fine in The Nanny,
which she created, produced, and earned multiple Emmy and Golden
Globe nominations for After success with the show, Her life
(01:22):
took a turn when she was diagnosed with uterine cancer
and altered both her trajectory and her perspective on life.
She went on to found Cancer Schmancer, turning pain into purpose.
As she famously says, she didn't stop pivoting there. She
became the president of the Screen Actors Guild and American
Federation of Television and Radio Artists sag AFTRA, which came
(01:43):
full circle after her parents instilled in appreciation and passion
for unions in her at an early age. Like so
many of our guests, her life and experiences built upon
each other, bringing her to perhaps one of the most
important moments in sag after history, the strike of twenty two.
She led the union in negotiating a historic deal, utilizing
(02:04):
every skill and lesson she had learned over the years.
So if you're a friend fan, you already know this
conversation was an absolute delight. She is unapologetically herself and
unequivocally brilliant.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Enjoy good evening, everyone, Good evening, So nice to have
you here at the David Rubinstein Atriam. My name is Jordana,
I'm the vice president of Programming here and we are
so thrilled to have you out for tonight's event.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So we're really.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Excited to be part of this podcast series that we're
doing and to have she Pivots here tonight. I'm going
to actually introduce us now to our host. Emily Tish Susman,
is the woman who created she Pivots, and so I'm
very excited to share a little bit about her. She
has interviewed and uplifted the stories of so many amazing women,
(02:56):
from Vice President Kamala Harris to Misty Copeland to Stacy London.
She Pivots highlights the personal aspects of our pivots, and
we are so excited to be part of this furthering
important conversations and exciting stories. Please help me welcome Emily
Tish Susman to the stage.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Thank you so much for that incredible introduction.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I could not be more excited to be at Lincoln Center.
As you guys heard, I'm Emily Tish Susman, the founder, creator,
and host of she Pivots, the podcast where we have
conversations about how the personal impacts the professional, and it
really could not feel more natural, more comfortable, and honestly
(03:41):
more flattering to be here at Lincoln Center.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I grew up in this neighborhood. This is where I voted.
So I think that basically really rings in full circle.
And tonight we have I mean, talk about iconic New
York Right tonight we have the most iconic New Yorker
we know and love her as Fran Fine, the lead
(04:04):
character of The Nanny. Do we also know that she
created it? She wrote it. She was nominated for Emmy's
for Golden Globes for Best Actress. And she didn't stop there.
She started cancer Schmancer, having an impact on wellness, and
in twenty twenty one she became the president of Sagastrodom.
It makes me want to cry. Guys, I'm so improved
(04:26):
by fran Fine. She negotiated a moment that we all
needed hope and we all needed a future for the arts.
She was our leader. So I'm so incredibly honored to
welcome the real Fran Fine. And maybe she'll even laugh
for us. Fran Dresser, she.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Rush to push, so st thank you, thank you, what
(05:10):
a warm welcome. Thank you all, thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Okay, this is going to sound like a silly question
after that introduction, but this is for the people at home.
What is your name and what do you do?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
My name is Fran Dresher, And what don't I do?
That's the real question.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
But I'm best known for the role of the Nanny
on television. It's still playing after thirty years and stronger
than ever, quite honestly, and currently I'm the president of SEGA,
after the largest entertainment union in the world.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Okay, so take us back, young Fran New Yorker, but
paint us a little picture, like what was it like?
Did you actually grow up in Flush and Queens.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Yes, there's a lot about the show that's based off
of my real story, and growing up in Flushing, Queens
is accurate. And those characters that we wrote about for
friend Fine were based off of all the joyful and
colorful characters that I grew up with. And I have
(06:24):
to say that it was a wonderful place to come from,
and back then it was really a charming, little provincial town.
And Simon and Garfunkle grew up in my neighborhood, and
that song in My Little Town was based off of
where I grew up.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Oh, have you ever gotten to talk to them about it?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
No, not about that specifically, but.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
Paul Simon's mom was Peter Jacobson, my ex husband's first
grade teacher, and then she came to our wedding. So
all those years later, and Jerry Steinfeld came from the neighborhood,
and we all went to Queen's College and Ray Romano
was in my graduating class at Hill Christ Tie.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh my god, your high school like dominated pop culture
for a period.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Of time, I now, and a lot of people actually
came out of Queen Cyndy Lauper.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, so you mentioned Peter, Yeah, very night. So you
guys were high school sweethearts and married at twenty one,
which seems young to me, Like did it feel normal
to you guys?
Speaker 5 (07:36):
It felt normal at the time, but now it seems
way too young and crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Wouldn't rarely recommend it, But you know, back then, and
we're going way back, I think that we came from
a very traditional kind of background and people did get
married when they met their one.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, and you two moved to Hollywood together to take
it on. Did it feel like you kind of were
like partners in this joint venture like taken on Entertainment?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yes, always.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
I mean we were written up about in the eighties
as the next Lucy and Deisi so, and we really
hadn't accomplished anything then. It was just like a quirk
of faith that the writer met us and thought we
were adorable and sold the idea to New York Magazine.
But it was really a decade later that we really
(08:35):
did start functioning like Lucy and Deisi did by having
our own show and going to the studio and producing
it and starring in it.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
All of that well, so set the scene for us,
like the early Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
You've moved you.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
You're getting situated. I mean, did you work other jobs?
Did you start working with an actor?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Did give us.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
I didn't work other jobs. I mean I did. I
did go to beauty culture school. I put in my
thousand hours in case the acting didn't work out, but
fortunately it did. But I used to cut my friend's
hair for like five bucks or something, and some of them,
the struggling actors, I cut for free. And back then
(09:19):
it was you know, David Caruso and Dennis Quaid, and
I knew where everybody's.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Ball swat was.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
But you know, I think that those were really wonderful years.
I mean, I think we all felt like we were
going to make it. Yeah, and we sort of gravitated
towards each other and it was just some I don't know,
I think that from my point of view, I.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Always felt like I should get.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
The job, and if I don't get it, they made
a mistake. I always entered the room with a great
deal of com confidence and self assurance. And it was
at a time when the popular shows on TV was
Welcome Back, Cotterer and Laverne and Shirley and Happy Days.
(10:13):
So there were those characters that were like urban, kind
of New York, flatbush, fungo type characters, and so I
sort of fit right into that sweet spot.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
And I started working almost immediately.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
I mean I went out there to shoot American Hot Wax,
playing opposite Jay Leno, who was then an unknown, young
up and coming comic, and that was a big rock
and roll movie that we did together.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And that was kind of the beginning.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
I went out there to do the movie for ten weeks,
but that turned into a permanent residence.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Were there some of those relationships from like the earliest
days that ended up becoming really fruitful for you later on?
Speaker 5 (11:05):
Well, you know, I worked for CBS quite a bit.
I did this pilot that didn't get picked up that
pilot this guest role, a short lived series that went
nowhere up to four episodes, and you were thinking, oh,
those idiots, And I was thinking, you know, I'm done
(11:25):
playing the nutty neighbor. I'm done being now like the
hooker with the heart of gold. And I really want
to get myself on the inside and develop my own
brand of comedy and be in a star vehicle for me,
(11:46):
or I was going to get out of the business. Oh,
and I gave myself five years to get on the
inside in a big way, because you.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Know, struggling is not my gym.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
I really had my heart set on success and if
I wasn't going to get it here, I would go
find it somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But once I, you.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Know, manifested that I was going to create my own
show and actually become like Lucie Ball in those you know,
in that way, you begin to see the opportunities presenting themselves.
And I happened to be on a plane going to
(12:31):
visit a girlfriend by myself, which was the first trip
I'd ever taken to Europe all by myself without Peter,
and on the plane was the president of CBS, Jeff Siganski.
So Jeff was somebody that was the president of CBS,
and he kept popping in to my radar because I
(12:54):
kept doing all these little, you know, like performances, these
smaller parts.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
It's third bananas, we call them.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
And he said to me, you know, I said, Jeff,
and he said Fran and I thought, thank you, Lord,
and I ran into the bathroom for some makeup on
and when I came out, I started talking to him
and I, you know, he said, oh this, we're doing
a ton of pilots.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Something will come down the pike for you. I'm sure
of it.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
And I said, you know, you're never going to find
anything that fits me hands in glove because I'm too unique.
And you should really listen to some of the pitches
that Peter and I have for me, because we know
my brand of comedy better than anyone. And nine and
a half hours later, he said, Okay, when we get
(13:47):
back to Los Angeles, call my office and I'll set
you up with our head of comedy development. And on
that trip, even though we had already been dabbling and developing.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
I did is.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
It wasn't a nanny, but on the trip I was
spending time with Twiggy, the one and only who was
in that short lived series with me and Julie Agony,
and I was staying with her and her husband and
her daughter, Carly, who was like twelve ath time, and
(14:21):
Twiggy and her husband Lee were working, so Carly was
free and I slept her.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
All over London, you know.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
All of a sudden, the kids says, oh, friend, my
new shoes are hurting me.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And I'm thinking, what the hell is she telling me for?
Speaker 5 (14:36):
And then I thought, oh, God, don't tell me she
wants to go home, because we.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Just got here.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
So I said to Honey, step on the backs of him,
and she says, innocently, won't that break them?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
And I said break them in?
Speaker 5 (14:51):
And I thought to myself, Wow, this is a very
funny relationship because I'm not telling that what's good for her.
I'm telling that what's good for me. Oh, it's a
very unconventional caregiver. And I called Peter in the middle
of the night because I couldn't get the idea out
of my head. And I said, then, what do you
think about a spin on the sound of music? Only
he said at Julian Andres I come to the door
(15:14):
and he thought for a brief moment, but he has
a very good sense for these things, and he said,
that's it. That's the one we'll pitch the CBS. When
you come back, we'll develop it a little bit more
and we'll go in with it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And that was the line that we.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Pitched to them, and they basically greenlighted the idea the
day we pitched it.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I feel we've given a round of applause, like that's unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
Yeah, it's just you know, when it's right, it's right
when it comes together, but you have to copy dim,
you know, right, And that's what's the most important thing
in life, is recognizing when opportunity knocks and then pushing
yourself into the situation and not getting in your way.
You know, that's a big lifeless and I learned very
(16:00):
early in my career, don't get in your way. Just
dive in headfirst, give one hundred and fifty percent so
you walk away without any regrets, and if you don't
get it, you know, it's their loss.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah. I love that. But just for good measure, what
were some of the other concepts, just so we know.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Well we were kind of doing.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
We came up with an idea about all of these
couples based off of.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Our friends and us.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
And there was an older couple who was our manager
and her husband, and then there were a couple of
friends and they were all different and they were all
based off of our real life friends. But what we
didn't know was that CBS was really searching for an
eight o'clock family show, and everybody was trying to get
(16:51):
into that nine o'clock nine thirty time slot that Seinfeld
had really established and made very c it for writers
to want to write in the Window because it was
able to be more adult. But when we pitched the Nanny,
they were thinking, oh my god, this is like eight
(17:12):
o'clock written all over it. It's got kids in it
and you know friend dresser. So it just was meant
to be.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
But you did get some pushback from the studio. It
was meant to be, but you did get some pushback
from the studio about having your character be Jewish.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
Well, it wasn't really the studio. We actually picked the studio.
They didn't sell it. We went straight to Network because
I met you know, Jeff on the plane. But Jeff
had called and called me and said we have the
While we were writing the pilot that we have an
(17:53):
opportunity to sell the show outright to Procter and Gamble,
which is a great thing because then you know that
show's getting picked up because all the airtime is already
brought up by a major sponsor. And they would do
that if the character was written Italian and not Jewish.
(18:13):
And we knew that we had to write the character
Jewish because it's a very fast medium, and so it
was very important that I'm able to place something that's
riches specificity, which is my brand of comedy, not try
to be something that isn't really fit, you know, like
(18:34):
suits me hand in glove that I know without even
thinking about it, without even trying to decide how I'm
going to do this or how I'm going to say that,
and then writing it too. You know, we can write
our mother's voice with our eyes closed in our sleep,
but an Italian mom maybe not the same. So even
(18:55):
though this was our big opportunity to do it our way,
and we knew that otherwise if it failed, we would
have that horrible feeling of regret. Why did we listen
to them? We should have followed our instincts. So I
said that you know, fran Fine has to be Jewish,
(19:16):
and by the grace of God, they said okay. And
actually that character was the first openly Jewish lead in
prime time played by a Jewish actor in nineteen ninety three,
since Molly Goldberg did it in nineteen forty eight. And
for all those years, they were feeling like it was
(19:39):
gilding the lily and let's write it Italian or let's
get you know, a gentile woman or man to play
a Jewish character, which he saw a lot of and
Valerie Harper, you know, wasn't Jewish, and it just you
(20:00):
saw it over and over again throughout television. But this
was definitely the turning point.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, you and Peter worked together, you were married. Then
did it create I mean, what did you do to
your personal dynamic? You know, I'm going to keep bringing
it back to that. Yeah, what did the success of
the show due to your personal dynamic? I mean, you
were the star? Was that the relationship you had always had?
(20:29):
Did it change your dynamic?
Speaker 5 (20:31):
I know because he's you know, was always a producer
and the head writer and executive producer, and he he
helped make me a star.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
He knows what.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
My strengths are and he works towards that. Yeah, so
I think that it was definitely a combined effort that
took too Yeah, and so not to say that we
didn't have some marital problems before the show began, and
(21:07):
then when the show happened, that kind of went onto
a back burner because it was so big and.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Exciting and it was such a shift for us.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
But over the years that the show was on the air,
the problems began to rear their ugly head, and eventually,
by towards the end of the series, we had separated,
which made working together very difficult.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
But we didn't want to throw.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
The baby out with the bath water, and the show
was our baby, and so we tried to keep it
healthy in spite of ourselves.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, do you think I mean, it's very clear that
so much of your personal life and your family impacted
your professional life in creating the show and was reflected
in the show. Do you think that it kind of
worked in the inverse as well? Like, do you think
that your personal life ended up being impacted by the show?
Speaker 5 (22:02):
I mean, look, when you have a huge hit and
you become so famous so quickly, it's going to impact
every part of your life.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
But we had a lot of famous friends.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
Even dan Ackroight had said to us when the series
got picked up, and he said, you know, your lives
are going to change, and you're going to put a
lot of effort into protecting your privacy and your safety,
and just be aware of that and otherwise, you know,
(22:39):
it can be a very fun ride, but you just
have to be able to find those times when it
can be quiet and be private.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
The Nanny went on to become one of the most
popular sitcoms of all time, but behind it all, Rand
dealt with a series of extremely difficult experiences. Before the
show even aired. Fran was the victim of a horrible
and violent attack in her own home in nineteen eighty five.
It was an experience that created emotional ripples throughout her life,
(23:14):
and when we come back, Fran talks through how that
experience and others shaped her perspective on life and ultimately
led her to pivot. Now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
You know, I was a victim of violent crime in
my own home by a man who is on parole,
and my girlfriend was there at the time, and Peter
was there at the time, and there was a horrible
situation that really left us emotionally traumatized for a long time.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
But that happened before The Nanny.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
It was during the Nanny that somehow that story was
exploited on some of those magazine shows on television, and
at that point people were watching it thinking that it
just happened instead of like ten years earlier.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And so I had a.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Very visceral response to that, and almost I think I
had a bit of a nervous breakdown because I think
there was a lot about that experience I hadn't really
fully dealt with.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
And so.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
It was around that time that I had started therapy
because the marriage was beginning to fail, and then I
was fortunately already in therapy where I could really discuss
what went down and try and identify how it's impacted.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
My life now. And even years after that.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
I realized that I don't do a lot of things
by myself, and I never had connected it to that,
but once I did, I started making modifications. I have
a big service animal, and you know, I just I
want to live my life. And you know, once you
(25:23):
wake up and smell the coffee, it's hard to go
back to sleep. So I am living my life as
fully as I can, and no one.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Leaves this planet unscathed.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
It's what we do with it, how we grow through it,
and what becomes of us as a result, that makes
all the difference. And for me, turning pain into purpose
is extremely healing.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So you were diagnosed with cancer, you had a hysterectomy,
and then you launched your organization Cancer Schmanzer, right, So
what pushed you not just to launch it, but also
to focus it the way that you do well?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You know?
Speaker 5 (26:04):
I always said, even through this strike, I'm a systems
analyst's daughter. So even though we started, the cornerstone of
the organization was.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Early detection because I was very lucky.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Even after two years and eight doctors of misdiagnosis, I
was still in stage one catching on arrival in ninety
five percent survival. So I wanted to empower patients to
become medical consumers, to learn what the early warning whispers
(26:40):
are of cancers and what tests are available so you
can become better partners with your doctor, because all too
often doctors are very busy people their bludgeoned by big
business health insurance to go to the least expensive route
of diagnostic testing and many of them seem to subscribe
(27:02):
to this philosophy. If you hear who's galloping, don't look
for zebra. It's probably a horse. But I was a
zebra because I was really too young and too thin
to have uterine cancer. Although one out of four women,
or twenty five percent, are young in thin, so to me,
(27:23):
that seemed like I should have been tested for that.
But doctor number one said I was too young, and
I'm like an idiot. I didn't ask her, well, what
would it prove a disproof taking an endometrio biopsy?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I just was glad to be too young for anything.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
But in reality, if I were a medical consumer, which
I was starting to train other people to be, motivate
activate educate patients into medical consumers, I would have known
to ask that question. I wouldn't have been so easily flattered,
and I would have said, no, let's do it, even
(28:04):
if I have to pay for it myself. And I
tell people you use your Christmas Club account for tests
your insurance won't pay for, because the best gift you
can give your friends and family is a long and
healthy life. But that was only the beginning for kancer schmanca,
because as time went on and I did get a
(28:25):
bill passed by unanimous consent in Washington, which means all
one hundred senators said yes.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Fran and.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
That was written up twice in the Congressional record. And
from there I was appointed a Public Diplomacy Envoy for
the US State Department, which is a vetted position to
speak to our allied nations on taking control of your
body and becoming a medical consumer. And I also spoke
to our military basis around the world well, and so
(29:02):
you know, this is really turning my pain into purpose
and helping people to realize that education and knowledge is power,
and it's really important that we take control of our bodies,
that we are the ones in charge. Because you know,
when the doctor calls and tells you have cancer, at
the end of the day, he goes home and eats
(29:24):
dinner with his family. You go home and eat your
heart out with yours. So it's your life to charge.
And just when you feel like I'm too scared and
you become infantile, that's exactly when you have to pull
yourself up by your bootsteps and really pay attention to
what's going on. So that was the beginning of it,
(29:44):
But then I started asking why are we getting cancer
in the first place?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
What's this about?
Speaker 5 (29:49):
I mean, rather than be symptomatic and reductionist in how
we treat the end stage, which is cancer or a
long history of inflammation, why don't we catch it at
the inflammation stage and understand what's causing the inflammation.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Let's not get cancer in the first place. How's that
for a cure?
Speaker 5 (30:12):
Right, So, Cancer Schmancer pivoted and became very focused on causation,
and nobody really in the health space was doing that,
and they're still not doing it. Quite frankly, I'm not
asking people for money to find a cure. We've been
(30:33):
looking for a cue since Nixon waged the war in cancer.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Where's the cure? Well, you can't put out a fire.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
By throwing water on it from one side. If you
continue to throw kerosene on it from the other side,
you have to stop throwing the kerosene on it. And
we live in extremely toxic times. So at Cancer Schmancer
we developed a very progressive program called Detox Your Home
because the home is the most toxic place we spend
(31:00):
the most time and ironically have the most control over.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
And what we do now.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Is take mindless consumerism and convert it into mindful consumerism.
So you use your hard earned dollars to support companies
that are not going to make you sick because you
know better because you follow the cancers man supplan. So
(31:34):
these are Once you learn these systems in your body,
you're not going to just stay with THEE and symptom.
It's silly to do that. You got to track that train.
You got to get to the beginning. You got to
see what you may be doing that's hurting you and
pay attention because your body is screaming at you. And
(31:57):
instead of muzzling it with a symptom suppressor, which is
very common in today's Western medicine and very profitable, by
the way, and filled with side effects, start looking at
what the causation is.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Track the train, get to.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
The root of the problem, and cut it out of
your life. I don't drink alcohol anymore. It causes too
much inflammation in me. It's not that I had a
drinking problem. It's not that I didn't enjoy an expensive
glass of wine now and then, but I don't like
the way I feel the next day. I have to
listen to my body. You know, when something if I
(32:35):
get the inflammation. I could take an anti inflammatory, but
then I'm just muzzling the symptom and I'm not really
helping my body heal. The body is trying to heal itself.
The inflammation, as annoying as it may be, is actually
going to the source that has a problem. So we
(32:58):
have to start working with our body instead of working
against it. And I find all too often, thanks to
the twentieth century, we tend to work against nature, and
we have to stop doing that. We have to work
with nature and embrace it and listen to it and
not make what you think the most important deciding factor,
(33:23):
because the brain is the worst roommate in the body,
and everything else, you know, like takes a back seat,
but it shouldn't. You got to listen very closely and
be ingratitude to every part of your body and honor it.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Honor your body.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But you almost had a totally different pivot. There were
conversations for you to run for senate here in New York,
which I think right now we're all in favor of
ha ha. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
I have to tell you, you know, even when I became
president of sag Aftra, I knew I would be good
at it. My whole life led up to having the
qualifications to lead in that way, and I am good
at it. But it's not a joyful experience. It's empowering,
(34:13):
it's a lot of stress. It's you know, exactly as
Lincoln said, you can play some of the people all
of the time and all of the people some of
the time, but you can't please all of the people
all of the time.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
And you know, it just.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Depends on how much aggravation and stress you can really take.
And I feel like I'm at a stage in my
life where I would like to have it easier and
more joyful. I wasn't even planning on running a second time.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
And everybody knew it.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
But when this negotiation started and it looked like we
were probably going to end up striking, there was no
way that another president could step in, you know, right
in the middle of this major event in our nation's history,
and I was leading it.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I was the one that, you know.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Really decided this was going to be a seminal negotiation.
I was the one that decided we needed to get
our hooks into a new stream of revenue because it
was such a new business model. Again, being the daughter
of a systems analyst. I saw the system and where
it was weak and where it was broken, and I
(35:30):
had to convince my own you know, members and negotiating
staff to really push themselves. I was not going to
accept incremental changes, not this time, and so I had
to remain president. And for the first time in the
Union's history, you know, they didn't run anybody against me
(35:55):
from the opposition party. That both parties came together and
started a unity ticket just to keep me in office.
And so I just slid back in without you know,
much that I would have to do, like campaign or
debate or anything, and need to do that.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Well, you had a quote much like you just said
that sag after a leading sag after was a defining
moment and the amalgam of my life experience, everything good, bad,
the worst of it, the best of it, my ego
as a star, all of it. Everything went into this
one moment of truth and thank god it paid.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Off, otherwise woe is me.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
But could you be a little specific, like what were
those experiences that you felt like prepared you for this moment?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Well, you know, I've been a boss for decades.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
You know, when you're an executive producer, you run things,
and I liked to do that, so I know how
to lead. I started my own organization. You know, people
get cancer, they don't turn it into a cottage industry,
but I did that. I wanted to exemplify what survival
(37:16):
could look like, and I wanted to help people to
look at their health and their body through a different lens.
So I organized. And what are we at a union
but an organization of members who come together to make
a difference. And I'm a best selling author, I have
(37:42):
to do a lot of writing. And you know, they
at the union were always writing things for me, and
I said, no, no, I write my own speeches, I
write my own articles. I'm a one man band and
I'm a public speaker, so that comes in very handy.
I'm a household name and I'm highly recognizable around the world.
(38:06):
So that elevated the union exponentially because suddenly we were
getting invited to things that the union was never invited to.
And that was because of my celebrity. But then after
the strike and the historic billion dollar deal, now I
(38:30):
get invited because I'm the president of a labor union
and I led a strike that awakened labor around the world,
and my strike speech got over twelve billion impressions. So
it started what became the hot labor Summer. There were
(38:53):
strikes everywhere around the world. That strike speech woke everybody
up like the emper new clothes, and they went from
feeling oppressed and living a quiet desperation to becoming empowered
and feeling like we could do this too. And that
(39:14):
was a strategy that I chose to take when we
went on strike, that it wasn't just us. We were
in the forefront of a labor battle that with millions
of people.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Behind us and all around the world.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Because you know, we have to be very careful that
corporations and Wall Street never dismiss workers, never disrespect workers,
and never feel like they are replaceable by machines, rendering them,
(39:50):
you know, out of business, out of work. So that's
the things that we were fighting for, and it with
a lot of different people.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, you said right before this, when we were backstage,
you said this was the right hill to die on. Yes, yeah,
Can you tell us more about that and how you
took the weight of the industry in your head and
behind you at those negotiating conversations.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, it was in.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
Nineteen sixty, when Ronald Reagan was president of SEG that
they went to the map to get actors for the
first time in history. Pension, health coverage over time, you know,
and residuals. None of that existed before nineteen sixty and
(40:42):
between nineteen sixty and twenty twenty three, that was the
contract that we were using. Jess always trying to incrementally
improve it. But something different happened along the way, and
that was AI and streaming, and the introduction of those
(41:04):
two elements changed the conversation so significantly that there was
no way that I was going to go into this
negotiation talking about a contract that was forged in nineteen sixty.
That world has changed so much, Entertainment has changed so much,
(41:25):
communication has changed so much, and it demanded a new contract,
and I commanded it of our opposition, and you know,
at first they were aggressive in their resistance, but at
some point they realized that either they were going to
(41:48):
lean in or they were going to lose very big
because they knew that I wasn't kidding around.
Speaker 6 (41:56):
Yeah, I believe that I was on the right side
of history, and they understood that the jig was up
for them.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Fran rallied actors around the world, negotiating a historic deal
for sag Astra, valued at more than one billion dollars
over three years. When we come back, Fran talks about
how different the public pressure was compared to when The
Nanny was airing. We're back with Fran talking about her
(42:32):
experience dealing with the public pressure of the sag after negotiations,
she felt the gravity of her role. After a video
of her speech went viral.
Speaker 5 (42:41):
This amplified it onto another level because when you say
a speech that gets twelve billion impressions, now suddenly people
aren't just stopping me and saying, oh, I love you
on the Nanny or even how are you feeling these days,
(43:01):
but thanking me, whether it be a nurse or a trucker,
a hospitality worker.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Everywhere I go people saw.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
That and said thank you, thank you for sticking up
for labor, for sticking up for workers. So that's like
a whole new thing. It's even bigger than the Nanny.
I never thought I could really tap the Nanny, but
somehow this really has because it just you know, put
(43:39):
it in a whole new stratosphere. Yeah, and I'm very
proud of that. Because I'm always defending the underdog. I'm
always going to the match for those that are marginalized.
So that was another thing that kind of supported me
doing this is what I do. And even in The Nanny,
(44:02):
you know, it kept coming up some of the episodes
that we did us that friend wouldn't cross a picket
line and you know, things like that, because we always
In The Beautician and the Beast, you know, she like
couldn't believe that this country that she was working as
a teacher didn't have unions and people didn't get over time.
(44:25):
And so I think that this character that I've become
known for has always been infused with something that my
father instilled in me, which is being sensitive to people's
needs and not being impressed by people who have money,
but by people who have character.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Thank you for reminding me about The Beaudition and The Beast.
I really loved that movie. You talk a lot about
your purpose through this piece. How did your purpose change?
We understand where there's where it was the same, like
you've always been yourself, And it turns out it's very
convenient when you're true to your own values. People can
pull up those episodes and it's not only not embarrassing,
it feels great. But how has your north star, like
(45:12):
your purpose changed as you've gone through these different phases
of your life.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
Well, I think that you know, when you go through
troubled waters, you become more empathic to other people's pain.
And I'm very much an EmPATH now in a way
that I'm not sure I was. I was a fighter
on the side of good, but now I really feel
(45:40):
the pay other people's pain and that it's hard to
be an EmPATH. It's not something I chose to be,
but I morphed into that through my own life experience,
and so my ability to shape whatever I'm doing is
(46:02):
sifted through that lens of other people's pain. So it's
interesting and I think that it deepens you as a
human being.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, you know, a.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Core part of the conversations that we have in this
show is that how everything builds upon itself, Like we're
not just sort of born these successes, but that we
have to have gone through these different phases to then
be the piece that everybody sees this success. Do you
think you could walk us through some of those steps
for you to be the success that you are today.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
Well, I think it would have to begin with my parents,
because they were very nurturing, loving people. I got to
witness a beautiful marriage in them. My bedroom wall was
shared with their bedroom wall, and I remember a lot
of laughing and giggling on the other side of that wall,
(47:00):
And it makes a kid feel warm and fuzzy inside
when that's the music that you hear as you're drifting
off to sleep. And my mom was the one that
said to me, you don't need to take typing because
you're going to have a secretary. And I still can't
type because I never did take it, and I do
(47:22):
have a secretary. So you know, that kind of belief
in a child is as I get older and I
get to know my friend's personal stories, it's very rare
and I can really appreciate how blessed I was to
(47:43):
have that foundation and to have people that really hung
on every word and really thought that I could do
anything and did not dissuade me from wanting to become
an actress, but truly believe that I had star quality
and if anybody could make it, friend could.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
So you know, it's an interesting.
Speaker 5 (48:07):
Beginning. And I've heard other people say once in a
while that the parents would always say, you're such a genius,
is such a genius, and they said, I felt like
I had to be I didn't want to disappoint them.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I had to be a success.
Speaker 5 (48:26):
I had to be a genius because they believed in
me so so believing in your kid and making them
feel like everything that they do has value and nurture
what their you know, what their's things are is really important.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
And that really was the beginning.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
But then once I got older and I moved to California,
I met a fantastic woman that I was very blessed
to meet, Elaine Rich, who became my manager. And she
wouldn't have been as good a parent as my parents were,
but she was an excellent manager and dear friend once
(49:03):
I was already formed, and I bless her. And she's
since passed away and I miss her. But she always
said to me, even when I couldn't afford a headshot,
she said, I'll pay for your pictures and I said, no,
I don't want you to do that. And she said, honey,
you're like a blue chip stock. I ain't going to
lose on my investment with you. And you know she
(49:26):
was right.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
I mean, we.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Made her a lot of money, and she believed in
me when I wasn't making a lot of money. So
you know, people like that along the way do make
a difference for you, and the more people that believe
in you, they become like your She always described yourself
(49:49):
as my prime minister. And then you know, the agents
were kind of the generals the army, and you need.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
It really does take a.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
Village, and so I have to say that I was
lucky that and continue to be so that there are
people that believe in me and believe in what I
have to say and allow me to be me and
not try and put me into a box because I
(50:25):
don't fit in a box and I don't want to
be in a box. I just want to be me.
And even with the strike, I realized that I had
a bigger responsibility, which was to show women and girls
what female leadership could look like. And that became very
important to me because I wanted to be me and
(50:49):
not emulate masculine energy, be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I would quote Buddhist wisdom.
Speaker 5 (50:55):
I had a little heart shaped plushy toy that a
little girl who loves me gave me for support, and
I always sat it down in front of me at
the negotiating table. And there was a point when the
opposition had hired a big DCPR firm who does crisis
(51:17):
management for bad guys with a lot of money, and
right away they went for the lowest hanging fruit. Let's
discredit the female, the woman leader, and you know, and
they tried to I was too domineering or obstinate because
I stood my ground. I was too frivolous because I
(51:40):
quoted Buddhist wisdom. I was unprofessional because I had a
little plushy toy in the room with me. And my
advisors at the union said let's just say no comment,
and I said no to that. I'm going to meet
this head one armed only with my authenticity and my
(52:03):
unabashed honesty. And I did a self taped video of
me putting my makeup on, as so many women do
before while getting ready for work, and I said, you know,
I don't have to emulate mail energy to lead. I
can lead with intellect and wisdom and empathy. I can
(52:26):
lead and still rock a red lip. I can lead
and be me and still have a little heart shape
plushy toy on my negotiating table. And that went viral
and stop the opposition's tactics dead in their tracks because
(52:47):
it rendered it ineffective.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Okay, So I asked this question of all of my guests,
what is one thing that at the time you really
felt like was a negative? Like you're like, I'm not
sure how many get out of this, And now, in hindsight,
you see it as having maybe launched you, or at
least set you up for the success that you are now.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Well.
Speaker 5 (53:12):
I think that there was a passage in my career
early on when I was getting convinced that I would
work more if I can fit into more of an
assortment of parts, and I would have to, you know,
not sound like this. And I actually tried to learn.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
How to speak and what my dialect.
Speaker 5 (53:42):
Coach called low slow flow. And I went on an
audition for back Then The Winds of War, And when
my manager called to see how I did, they said,
you know, she sounded okay, but she talked very slow,
(54:05):
and it's only an eighteen hour miniseries a Lane, So
of course I didn't get the part. I was so
focused on something that wasn't natural or organic to me
that I lost my whole personality. And then I realized,
you know, I'm going to figure out how to monetize
(54:25):
this because it's unique and it's my own and I
don't care if every character I play comes from New York.
As long as I can explore different emotions and different
life experiences and challenges, I'm.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Good with that.
Speaker 5 (54:43):
I don't have to be Meryl Streep, though, God bless her,
it would be nice, but that's not my jam. You know,
I'm not Meryl Streep. I'm Frien.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah. Yes, we're so glad you are.
Speaker 5 (54:58):
But you know, honestly, I needed to wear a lot
of different hats anyway. I wouldn't be happy only being
an actor. It's not enough. I need to do other things.
I want to write, I want to produce, I want
to direct, you know. I like to wear a lot
of different hats. I like to try new things. I
(55:18):
like to fly.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
Without a net.
Speaker 5 (55:20):
But I don't need to stay in it forever. I
want to master it. I want to succeed in it,
and then bye bye. I don't need to make it
my life's mission. And so you know, I find life
a lot of fun in that way if I can
do a lot of different things. And I think that's
why I went into show business in the first place,
(55:42):
because the idea for me of doing like a nine
to five job going to the same place, I don't
think I couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, a perfect segue into our final question. Oh, I know,
I've had so much fun. Do you think you'll piv again?
Speaker 1 (56:01):
Undoubtedly I will, you know.
Speaker 5 (56:05):
I mean, that's what the joy of my life is
is to fly through new windows and learn new things.
I love learning things and I like challenging myself or
I start to get bored. So I definitely definitely will.
(56:25):
And what it will be, I'm not sure, but I
know I'm going to start putting pen to paper and
writing another book. And there's a big story to share
subsequent to the last book, which was Cancer Schmancer, and
it's time that I shared it.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you for inviting me.
Thank you Live she Pivots and Lincoln Center. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
Friend appreciated, thank you.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
She Pivots. Fran continues to serve as the president of
sag Aftra and is heavily involved in her nonprofit, Cancer Schmancer,
and she somehow still has time to write a book
on the side. Be sure to follow Frin on Instagram
at official fran Dresser and visit our website to donate
(57:20):
to Cancer Schmancer and learn all about the good work
they're doing. Thanks for listening to this episode of She Pivots.
If you made it this far, you're a true pivoter,
so thanks for being part of this community. I hope
you enjoyed this episode, and if you did leave us
a rating, please be nice. Tell your friends about us.
To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
(57:41):
at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content,
or on our website she Pivots the Podcast Talk to
You Next Week special thanks to the she Pivots team,
Executive producer Emily eda Velosk, Associate producer and social media
connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and logistics
(58:05):
coordinator Madeline Sonoviak, and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock
I endorse Cheap Pivots
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