September 11, 2024 • 34 mins
Gina Ortiz Jones grew up as a first-generation American, taught early on about the importance of service by her family. But she never imagined breaking one of the largest glass ceilings in the country by becoming the Under Secretary of the Air Force — the first woman of color and the first openly lesbian person in the role. On this episode of She Pivots, Gina shares the deep history of and pride around military service in her family; coming out to her mom at age 15; the personal and emotional impact of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell; the decision to step away from her career to care for her mother; and her fight for women’s health and reproductive freedoms.
She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Gina, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to She Pivots. I am Gina Ortiz Jones.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted
these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. This week,
I'm delighted to welcome Gina Ortiz Jones to the podcast.
(00:36):
My path almost crossed with Gina when I worked for
the Service Members Legal Defense Network working to repeal Don't Ask,
Don't Tell, an archaic policy that bard gay members of
the military from talking about or acknowledging their identity. Gina
went on to make history as the first woman of
color and out lesbian to serve as undersecretary of a
military department. So it's no surprise that I wanted to
(00:58):
have her on the show to talk about the stark
pivot from a military experience that silenced her to serving
as undersecretary as an openly gay woman. Service to country
has always been a center point in Gina's life. She
grew up in Texas, the daughter of immigrants surrounded by
military bases. Not only was gratitude to America instilled in her,
(01:19):
but many people she knew went into service, so it
was only natural for Gina to follow that same path,
leading her to join the Air Force. Her dedication to
service carried her through various pivots, from leaving the Air
Force to take care of her mother who was ill
with cancer, to serving as undersecretary, to leaving during the
Trump administration, to running for Congress to now running a pack.
(01:42):
She has truly made so many pivots throughout her life. Also,
in true military and security fashion, we weren't able to
allow Gina's computer to access the microphone. So Gina's audio
is straight from her computer, or so you might hear
a bit of a difference.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Enjoy. So I'm Gino Ortiz Jones, and I served as
the twenty seventh Under Secretary of the Air Force, and
I am currently the founder of find Out Pack.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So we will go in chronological order, like let's plant
the seeds, Let's go back like little Gina, where did
you grow up?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
What was life like like? What did you want to
be when you grew up? Well, like when I spoke
about my story, I don't talk about only me. My
story really starts with my mom, right, my mom came
to this country as a domestic helper. My mom graduated
from the number one university in the Philippines, but she
came here as a domestic helper. She wanted her shot
at the American dream, and when it presented herself, she
(02:37):
jumped at it right. I think that is always what
she instilled in my younger sister and I, that we
were very lucky to call this very special country home.
We were lucky, not smart, We were lucky to be
born here, and we have to give back. And I
think that American dream is still so motivating for so
so many others, and we've got a work to protect that.
So my mom raised my younger sister and I by herself.
(02:59):
My sister is is all of fourteen months standard and I,
so we are very very close. My mom is a
public school teacher. She recently graduate retires excuse me a
couple of years ago. But San Antonio is my home.
I'm very proud to be a proud product of public education.
I went to Adams Tell Elementary School, Pea's Middle School,
John Jay High School here in San Antonio, San Antonio's
(03:20):
Military City, USA, and there was something for me about
military service I think again, like my uncle had actually
served in the Navy. He came to the US as
part of the US Navy Stewart program where they were
recruiting US Filipino men to serve in the US Navy.
So again, just another reminder how special this country is
and the opportunities that we are afforded only because we
lived here writ in our fortunates, call our selves Americans.
(03:41):
But you know, my mom worked very hard, lots of
times where she was working multiple jobs and made reduced lunch,
subsidized housing. I know first hand experience with each of
those things.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Raised to feel a sense of pride in her country
by her mom, who immigrated while also being surrounded by
military bases, it was no surprisewing up, Gina dreamed of
serving her country.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So yeah, so what did I want to be when
I grew up? That grew up That's a big question,
I think, you know. I I remember watching shows like
mc iver and really thinking that was cool. It's somewhere
it's not like the like the national security space, but
in a little bit of a different way. And I
think I've always there's something about like the order and
the discipline of military service that has always been attractive.
I didn't know exactly. I think maybe though at one
(04:24):
point I also thought about being a lawyer, but I
you know, it was very drawn to public service, to
national security. So what I ended up doing when I
am doing to me is not super surprising. Yeah, what
did that?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
How does being international security play out as a kid?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Like?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Did you play spy games? Were you in like a
robotics club?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Like?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
How did that play out?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
So?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
San Antonio is military CDUSA, and the high school that
I went to, John Jay High School, is right down
the stream from Lachlan Air Force Base, which is the
gateway to the Air Force. Everyone that enlists in the
US Air Force goes through Lacklane, and so you can
imagine we had a pretty robust Air Force Junior ROTC program,
And that was I was drawn to that. Right, There
(05:08):
were more people at O ROTC than they were my
graduating high school class. I mean, that's how big of
a draw I was. And I actually mentioned, you know,
because my mom was working a lot. I mean, there
was one point in time where she was working in
as a poetic school teacher, but she was having a
hard time finding something here in San Antonio. She found
something in Laredo, though, which is about two hundred miles
from here, and so she would leave, you know, Monday
(05:31):
mornings work there in Laredo, and then come back Fridays.
And she did that for about a yek home, say
it was a year or two. And so my sister
and I grew up very fast, right, I think we
were you know, so you know, pretty I think, like
preteen at that time, and so taking care of each other.
But we just saw how hard my mom was working,
the sacrifice that she was making for what she wanted
to do, and how she knew she wanted to provide
(05:52):
for us.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Even though she grew up quickly and learned to be independent,
Gina was close with her mom, and in the nineties
she came out to her when she was just fifteen.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I mean I remember having crushes on my teacher as
a very very young kid, like first grade, you know,
second grade. So I have always known that I was
one different and that my attraction was not to little
boys or boys, right like, So that has always been
pretty clear to me. I think, you know, there's always
some questioning as a young person, right, I had a
(06:23):
boyfriend in high school, but like you just you just
kind of know right that this is something about this
it doesn't fit right. And so I think kids know
very quickly, and I think it's really about creating the
environment that allow them to be to express themselves and
make sure that they feel safe and protected and can
talk about their feelings if they if they so choose,
(06:44):
And really that's I mean, that's that's what you want, right,
You want somebody that feels safe and protected around you,
and if they are dealing with something that is hard
for them, that you are there to help them if anything.
You know, I was raised in a deeply Catholic family
and I am a practicing to stay and so our
faith has always i mean has shaped us. But my
(07:05):
mom has always been you know, it's always been about
unconditional love and being a good person. And so yeah,
I did come out to my mom when I was
abouteen fifteen, sixteen, and I'll never forget. We were actually
sitting on the couch in the living room and she
was looking at a magazine or reading a newspaper. She's something, right,
It was like it was big enough. I was blocking
her face and I said, Mom, I think I I think,
(07:27):
I you know, I think I like girls, and without
missing a beat, without looking up, she's like, I think
you just like the clothes I've been wearing. And that
was like that that was the end of that conversation,
and I knew, I mean, I know my mom right
like that was the end of that conversation and so
we didn't pick it up again until you know, much
much later. But I have never felt judged by my mom.
(07:50):
I think it's just, you know, moms they want to
protect you, and I think moms they know what hardship
that could bring, right even though you're living your truth,
that could be difficult, and so I think she was
just trying to be protective. But you know, now, I couldn't.
I couldn't have a bigger, sheerleader than my mom, to
be honest, and uh, And I am very thankful for
that because I know for some folks, unfortunately, it's still
(08:12):
too hard to come out. And that's and that's.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
She loved her mom, there was no question, but as
a result of becoming independent at a young age, she
began to act out.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
As a result of that, though, I was like, you know,
seeking some attention at school and frankly, being a little
bit of a knucklehead, to be honest, So I'll just
fast forward that story. But I ended up being on
probation for about six months after an altercation with another student.
My mom had to pay fine, and I'll never forget Emily,
like standing in that courtroom and looking at that judge
(08:43):
and really seeing the disappointment on my mom's face and thinking,
you know, I could do something better than this. This
is this is not where I want to be. So,
you know, did Junior r OTC. I was in student
council all four years, ended up being the president of
student council, and ended up all four years in Junior ROTC.
Does the top debt in that program. And then it
(09:03):
was fortunate to earn Air Force RTC scholarship that took
me to Vosity University. And even before my very first
class at BU, I had to sign a piece of
paper that said I will not engage in homosexual behavior
because don't ask, don't tell was the policy at the time,
even for cadets. And so I mean, but I but
I also knew what that meant, right, and again being
(09:24):
raised by a single mom. But there's not a lot
of resources. There's like there's a lot in the line. Financially,
I mean my ability to get an education, my ability
to serve our country, my ability to die for our country.
It's me being you know, all that goes away just
because at the time we didn't have enough leaders with
the courage to say anybody ready and willing to serve
their country should have the opportunity to do so. So
(09:44):
I knew what was on on the line, but it
wasn't to me. It wasn't a it wasn't an option
to just kind of come out, because there was there
was so much writing on me being able to get
an education and do other things that I wanted to do,
and so I didn't come out probably until like obviously
after I left to the military, because don't ask, don't
tell was the policy the entire time that I served.
And you know, of course you mean into folks that
(10:07):
were LGBTQ in the military, but it was it was
really just unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Don't ask, don't tell was an archaic policy, but when
it was implemented, it was meant as a solution to
a harsh discrimination against LGBTQ plus people in the military.
It was certainly not perfect, and so many service members
suffered experiences that will live with them for the rest
of their lives.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
And it was then that I told him that this
was my partner and then this was my fiance. My
commanding officer said, you should surrender your weapon and expect
it if sonomable discharge.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
And also it sort of weighs on you over time
because you deal with little questions every day, what'd you
do this weekend? Well, you know, I'm not allowed to say, well,
I spent it with my partner, So you are, You're
constantly living a lie every day.
Speaker 7 (10:58):
In that process, where I had finally felt I belonged
to something, all of that fell away and I felt
like I was completely by myself.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
When a policy whose premise is secrecy, there were consequences
that were seemingly invisible that had a massive impact on
lives and careers of service members, and Gina was not immune.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
The fact that again the very first thing I even
before my first class, like assigning that piece of paper,
that showed you just how important that policy was. Right,
and the I think for you know, I can't speak
for how others you know, interpreted me or understood me,
but yeah, there is this kind of you know, I
can't say too much or I can't. Let me be
careful of what I say. I don't want it to
(11:43):
be misunderstood, right, because yeah, I mean if you're it's
interesting because you know, you're trying to not be perceived
one way. Even though you had some of the traits
associated with being a leader, being assertive, being having presence,
some of those things are understood as masculine right Wrongly,
it's it's associated with a gender, and so you're like, well,
(12:04):
let me not do too much of that because I
don't want to be associated with something that could somebody
could potentially raise a question about you know who I am. Right,
So there's this very delicate balance for I think for
women in particular, there's something about that like oh, she's
just like she's a lesbian or like you know what
I mean, Like that that kind of like very dismissive.
But you also never know. And that's the thing, right,
(12:25):
what I just said there is like you never know,
and that's that was all that's always kind of in
the back of your mind, like just you just never know.
So it's much more beneficial to you to frankly protect
yourself and however you see fit and a lot of
that to your point is and not divulging too much,
but then not creating those trust bonds that certainly mal
share members are known for, and that I think is
is truly the unfortunate piece, because yeah, I mean, that's
(12:47):
so much of the military experiences is forming those really
tight bonds, and if you're not sharing information with each other,
then then it's hard to create that.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Do you think it prevented you from advancing?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
You must admit you know that experience of serving under
don't ask hotel and frankly having a first hand experience
of having leaders that could not be equally vested in
your success as the success of others that they were leading,
which because it was the policy, has absolutely shaped everything
that I've done since, right, how I think about leadership,
(13:20):
how I think about talent management, how I think about
the talent pipeline, how I think about creating organizations, challenging assumptions,
and frankly leaning into the power that you have because
you never know who that is going to impact, maybe
not today, maybe not next week, but certainly down the line.
And if only for your example, right to have the
(13:40):
courage to speak up and push out on those things.
And I think for those of us that have that
experience and know what it's like. You know, shame on
us for not stepping up and pushing back is if
we have the opportunity to do so. But I mean
I didn't feel like it hindered my professional advancement. I
think more probably just a professional comfort. But again, you
(14:02):
know that my time was was that was relatively short time,
and it was very early in my career. I've had
I know folks who had a much different experience as
a result of that, because there was just more times
for it to be an issue for them, right, which
then affected the opportunities that they had before them.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
When we come back, Gina opens up about her mother's
experience with cancer and how it not only changed her
mom's life but her own. Gina had always known one
thing that she wanted to serve, but when her mom
was diagnosed with colon cancer, everything changed.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
And I'll never forget we were I surprised her. It
was after the deployment and we were in the kitchen.
She's wearing this pink bracelet. They had that pink rubber bracelet.
I was like, Mom, what's uh oh? And she she
asked me, was like, what's that what's that bracelet for?
And I was like, oh, it's like it's been breast
cancer Awareness month. And she's like, oh, well, well, what
would you do if mommy told you she had cancer?
And like that's how she told me, A very like yeah,
(15:04):
I mean that's my mom though, And I was like
wait what? And so your whole world just kind of
everything changes. What was important is not important, What you
didn't know was important is all of a sudden super important.
So I made the decision, you know, right away, that
that was going to be with her. I'd have a
lot of jobs, I'd do a lot of sayings with
my life that I have one mom and it's really
important for me that I view with her.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
For anyone not familiar with the military, you can't just leave. Fortunately,
Gina was able to leave because at the time there
was a program in place in the Air Force where
they were looking to make cuts due to budgetary constraints.
So Gina took advantage of that and made her way
back home.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
So I came back to San Antonio again, really still
committed to the National Security mission and worked right along, straightly,
right alongside the Army here in San Antonio on military
operations Latiner, So you.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Were able to find kind of a civilian job but
still really in military service.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, that's right. And it was great because, you know,
it was interesting because at the time, a lot of
the focus obviously, this is two thousand and two thousand
and six, so all focuses arack in Afghanistan. Submissions that
I was focused on, though, we're on Latin America and
the Andean Ridge, so Colombia, Venezuela, were Peru, and that
was just a totally different obviously area that we were
(16:21):
looking at. But some of those challenges in that region,
you know, the effects of colonialism, petro diplomacy, all these
other things, right, like ethnic racial tensions, in tribal tensions
in some certain areas, the relationships with indigenous communities. A
lot of that was it really allowed you to kind
of sink your teeth into some some geopolitics that most
folks are not super familiar with, but frankly is like
(16:43):
the meat and guts of how we understand and how
we understand our challenges and opportunities. So after having done
that for a couple of years, I was able to
it was a natural fit when I was offered to
be part of the initial team that stood up US
Africa Command. We saw a lot of those similar challenges
and opportunities, and we're trying to think of security, cooperation
and partner engagement in a different way. So having just
(17:04):
spent all that time trying to understand what that meant
in Latin America, really a great opportunity to think through
some of those challenges on a different content.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Well, you had found kind of a balance between your
professional career and professional goals and personal because you were
able to do it by still living at home with
your mom. Did the calculation change for you then to
go to Africa?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, Well, my mom, frankfully, you know, by that time,
she'd been cancer free for a couple of years, thankfully,
and so we actually had a conversation about that, and
you know, your mom always wants to just kind of
do what makes sense for you, and I felt comfortable,
just based on her health, that I could I could
pursue that opportunity. So, yeah, when I was offered to
be part of the initial team that stood up US
(17:49):
Africa Command that was in Germany, it took that opportunity.
It's interesting because there was a tidot there too, because
I actually had a scholarship to go to Wisconsin Law
because either go to Wisconsin Law or go to US
Africa Command. And it was interesting. I remember I was
actually driving to the post office drop some stuff off
because I had gone. I went to visit. I saw
(18:12):
Bucky and I was sold right, and I went Emily.
I went in January, and you know January in Wisconsin,
like the snow is, you know, three times as high
as you. But it was such a warm, wealthy environment.
It's still and the school police it still has a
special place in my heart, to be honest, because it
was such a welcoming experience. But yeah, I was driving
(18:32):
to the post office and to drop something off and
I heard they were doing a hiring fair in town
for US Africa Command. And I was like, huh, that's interesting.
Let me that sounds kind of cool, right, because we
don't stand these things up every night, overnight or every day.
So to be part of something that was new and
exciting like that and obviously in the interest of national security.
(18:54):
So I went, I interviewed, got an offer on the spot,
and didn't look back.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
She went on to work for the Defense Intelligence Agency THEDIA,
leaving Law school behind and returning back to service. After
the break, Gina makes another pivot and joins none other
than the Executive Office of the President, now serving as
(19:21):
a senior advisor to the Director of the DIA. Gina
was high on everyone's radar, so much so that the
Obama administration noticed her and recruited her to work on
a new project.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So, my background academically is economics, so always very fascinated
by and as an intelligence analyst, you see a lot
of that the economic aspects to some of the national
security challenges that we are facing. So to me, I've
always been very interested in how those things intersect, especially
when they produce inequities that then lead to conflict. So yeah,
(19:53):
when I was working at the DIA headquarters Defense Intelligence
Agency headquarters, that was an opportunity. In twenty twelve, as
Obama stood up the Interagency Trade Enforcement Center and this
was the whole of government approach to protecting American intellectual property,
and in that executive order, he said there would be
a senior member from the intelligence community to help the
(20:14):
intelligence community support this mission, but also helped the rest
of the interagency understand what the intelligence community could and
could not do.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So I was the second person to serve in that position,
and what a great opportunity to learn about, you know,
aspects of the of the economic national security uprights that
I was not as familiar with. So we were housed
at the Office US Trade Representative and so engaged quite
a bit with the General Counsel's Office there as they
were preparing cases for the World Trade Organization, but also
(20:42):
to understand just how important and frankly, what a what
a thread there was to our to our national security
as a result of the loss of wealth that was
stolen by PRC actors. So putting all of that into context, right,
was how we run to how we needed to think
about engaging in certain areas.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
To summarize for anyone who isn't well versed in the
complex military and government work, Gina basically worked at the
intersection of global trade policies and intelligence. There is no
question that the economy has a large impact on the
sustainability of the world, and Gina's job was to identify
areas that could be at risk due to trade and
economic impacts. But it was quite the shift for her
(21:27):
working in the Department of Defense to now working in
one of the smallest government agencies changed how she was
able to approach issues and the seriousness with which they
were taken.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Now, this is a pivot, Emily, when you go from
being at DoD so you're like the gorilla in the room,
right when you're like the DoD rep to meetings, and
then you go into the meeting and you're the opposite
of the US Trade Rep. And as like as holl
As Cabinet agency, and you're talking about reciprocity, if you will,
like roll their eyes, right, it was to be always
amazing when you get Commerce, Treasury, DOJ and States roll
(21:59):
their eyes at the same time. I'm cool, no, but
but they was really important, right, Like economic reciprocity is important.
I mean we have to think about how the implication,
what the implications would be if country extra why did
the same thing to American businesses and what that would mean.
So a very very important voice to be heard.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
But so Trump was elected became the president, I mean,
what did you think would happened to your position to
your career, Like did you think that you could still
have an impact as essentially a bureaucrat.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Well, I think a lot of people in national security
saying that you know, national security is a political right.
It's about the facts, it's about the country, and it's
about good judgment right because lives on the line. American
leadership is on the line, and that has always been motivating.
Like it never talked politics tech politics, that were never never, never,
like it's just not something that you do now. Personally, obviously,
(22:48):
through his campaign, I was quite concerned as a woman,
as an LGBTQ person, as somebody that didn't grow up
with a lot of means, but I think relied on
many of the opportunities that he was talking about take
me away. On top of just the way he was
talking about immigrants. Again, my mom came to this country
as a domestic helper, though she graduates from the number
one university in the country. Right, So this idea that
(23:10):
he was den renizing people that were coming here, working
hard and serving the country now was the next generation
is serving the country is just so at odds with
what I thought a commander in chief, how they would
conduct themselves, right man or woman to be frank and
so yeah, so I thought, but I did. I was like, well,
let me see what good I can do right from within,
because we all were all a political it's about the constitution.
(23:33):
But six months, you know, six months into that, and
it was just very clear based on you know, and
fringly based on the people that he had brought in
that I worked with at the opposite, the US Trade Representative,
on top of watching the policies that he was enacting
in other parts of the government. And I remember, so
we're briefing the higher ups and so it's funny. We
were in the briefing and he's like, wait, wait, wait,
are we going to reproach on or anti China? And
(23:54):
I was like, this is the Trump a point tee
at the time that we were briefing, and I just
thought like, One, that's not what this is about. Like,
that's not how we do this. In my head, obviously,
I'm thinking that's not how we do this. But also
this is so dangerous and it's so uninformed that it's
and it's like really just kind of not where I
think I can I can best serve. I don't know
(24:15):
if I want to be part of this. I think
by that Tom already made the decision that I was
going to leave based on some of the things I
had seen. But for me, that really similar aside that
I needed to serve in a different with So.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
She left the Trump administration and began to think about
her next pivot. Staying true to her values, she kept
service at the Center and she ran for Congress in
Texas's twenty third district, becoming the first gay woman of
color and military veteran running for office in Texas.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
So came back to San Ontario, ran for office, lost
that election by that nine hundred some Amauto votes. Didn't
get a lot of help from national Democrats at the time.
But there's nothing like running for office, and there's nothing
like running to serve your community. And having had the experience,
I think of no how important American leadership is, knowing
how important those investments are, Knowing that it's how important
(25:04):
it is for people to serve authentically and openly so
they can serve to the rest potential and best serve
the country. Right. But a lot of that that certainly
depends on your ability to do That depends on the
will of the people, right, and their engagement in American
politics is based on how well they are not being served.
So running for office was an invaluable experience. I learned
(25:24):
a lot as a results of it.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
So President Biden fast Bard, President Biden's elected nominates you
as the under Secretary of Air Force, confirmed by the Senate,
the first woman of color, first open lesbian in the position.
You served for a number of months, made a big impact,
and then you left, and I think that a lot
of people would have looked at where you were and said, wow,
like she's doing it, Like she's doing the thing, She's
(25:47):
at the peak. What made you walk away at that point?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
So serving for shy of two years, well, I always
knew that I was not going to serve the full term.
And so as you know, as an appointee, you always
want to give the administration as much kind of as
the courtesy of having them identify, go through the vetting
process and then nominate who they prefer, right they who
they would like to and as you know, and unfortunately
that Center tuber Bill has shown that can be a
(26:14):
very nasty process. And so you know, for me, as
you know, in fourteen democratic politics, midterms and normally when
you see kind of an exodus of folks that lead
the administration if they are if they're not going to
stay in the full time. But yeah, as you mentioned,
very proud of the things I got across the finish line, right,
And a lot of that I think goes back to
what I described earlier, which is, if you have the
experience of serving under leadership that cannot be equally invested
(26:37):
in your success, that you push back on those opportunities. So,
you know, changing the policy about when women can fly
when they're pregnant, you know, pushing to have the first
female officer attend the Tie Air Command and Staff College,
which is you know, is a very big deal not
only for that individual, for our country, but also certainly
for the example the leadership that we said that we
(26:57):
display in the end of Pacific at this moment in time.
Really proud also of the way in was we tackled
some of the ugly pieces, right, some of the not
so nice pieces, how we address and how we handle
prevent sexual assault, sexual harassment, how we take care of victims, etc. So,
you know, very very honored to have served in that way.
But I mean, my heart is here in San Antonio,
(27:18):
my heartings and always in public service, and so I
look forward to to serving in the next one.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
She forged ahead, using her years of experience in the
federal government and campaigning to start the find Out Pack,
whose mission is to unseat the three Supreme Court justices
in Texas who have ruled against women's health and reproductive freedoms.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Last December, I was reading about the Kate Cox case and,
like you know, following along with many folks.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Kate Cox's heartbreaking story is just one of the thousands
that have come out since Roe was overturned and states
have stripped away women's reproductive health care. For Cox, who
was already a mother of two, her pregnancy was a
life threatening risk to her, so questioned an exemption to
allow her to legally have a safe procedure to save
her life.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And then they reached the decision that they did, and
I was very I think a lot like surprising a
lot of folks that they would have reached that decision
given the circumstances. Right, we only have one medical exception
in our state, and her doctor, this woman's doctor, said
she needed a medical exception, she qualified for one, Yet
this partisan Supreme Court said that she did not qualify.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Their Supreme Court ruled that the life of a woman
is not valuable, that they would rather her die.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And we start with.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
New developments in a case of a Texas woman seeking
a court ruling to get an emergency abortion. She has
already left the state to get medical care, but that
story continues here.
Speaker 8 (28:43):
Tonight, Attorney General Ken Paxton argued that the fatal diagnosis
for her feet is and the danger Trisley eighteen poses
to Cox's life and her fertility does not qualify for
a Texas medical exemption.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Bottom line tonight is that Kate Cox cannot get an
abortion in Texas right now, even after she received permission
from a Travis County court on Friday. Tonight, the Supreme
Court said that her doctor did not establish that the
abortion is needed in her reasonable medical judgment, even though
that doctor, to be sure, very much believes the abortion
(29:16):
is necessary for Cox's health and her future fertility.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
And so I was like, well, look these like one
who are these folks? But two like this is this
is ridiculous. And my reaction is a little bit more
of this role is, you know, fuck around and find out.
And that's where we find out. Pack comes from. It's
a very scientific concept and omydiam these folks are this
podcast will be found familiar with it. But the whole
point is to unseat these three justices that are up
(29:43):
in November. So do in Texas elect all of our
Supreme Court justices. They go through partisan elections. The nine
court bench. Scuse me, the ninth bench court is all Republican.
We've got three folks that are up now. So Jimmy Blacklock,
John Devine, Jane Bland, Jimmy John and Jane. That's really
their names. Books can go to find out pack dot
com to check out our launch video. Certainly contribute and
(30:07):
I think, look, we're optimistic, Emily. This has never been done.
We've never changed. We've never challenged the make of the
Supreme Court before the Texas Supreme Court too, these justices
have never been challenged. And secondly, we are optimistic based
on what we have seen in other conservative states, right Kansas, Kentucky, Ohio.
When the issue reproductive freedom is on the ballot, people
(30:27):
turn out even in conservative states. And Texans are with us. Right.
There was a poll that just came out last year.
Eighty two percent of Texans support a medical exception. It's
not even close, right, So, how where these justices are
versus where Texans are is a huge rift. And you
know in the ad you'll see that we talked about
Jimmy John and Jane and what they did. We don't
(30:49):
talk about political party because regardless of you know, the
two parties might be on very different sides of this,
and they clearly are, but that doesn't make the fact
that somebody should be able to listen to their doctor,
somebody is able to get healthcare in their own state,
somebody should be able to make decisions about their own bodies.
Those are not partisan issues, right, So we're very clear
if you're upset about what's happened to Kate Cox or
(31:09):
what's happened to any of the others, any of these
other women, the solution is to vote out to Jimmy
John and Jane Coop Member, what is.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
One thing that at the time you felt like was
like real negative, like you weren't sure you're going to
get out of it, and now in retrospect you see
it as having really launched you into the position you
are right now.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I think, and maybe this is less of an issue
for folks around just given the time that we live
in now, but I think you know, at some point
in time, you make a decision in your life that
you are going to live your authentic self and whether
that means coming out, And I think that is what
that means for me, because that is the moment when
I said I'm going to come out and be who
I am. You're then able to channel all of that
(31:49):
energy and all of that those resources on doing the
things that you want to accomplish, right and you're no
longer afraid of looking over your shoulder or worried about
franking what others are going to think of you because
they're going to say something anyways, right, like whatever. But
I think that moment where and sometimes it takes a
couple of moments right where you're like, Nope, I'm gonna
do this. This is this is the thing that's most
(32:09):
needed now. And it's interesting. I was talking to somebody
else about find out pack and they're a little bit
they're a little bit older and there, and their response was, well,
are you afraid? Are you afraid like of the maybe
potential backlash of this issue, Like, no, I'm not, because
it's the right thing. It's this is the right thing
to do. We're talking about, you know, the ability to
make decisions about your body and the ability to get
(32:30):
healthcare in your own state, like and if you're gonna
if there's gonna be a backlash to that will and
still be a.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Well Gina, thank you so much for joining. Thanks Emily,
thank you so much for listening to Gina's episode. She
is still working hard to have the goals of find
out Pack realized and women's health care protected. This is
an essential issue and I'm so grateful that Gina is
using her passion for service for this. If you want
(32:57):
to get involved or donate, visit their website and find
out Packed, or follow them on Instagram at find out Pak.
You can also follow Gina on her personal instagram at
Gina Ortiz Jones Texas for all the latest updates. Thanks
for listening to this episode of She Pivots. If you
made it this far, you're a true pivoter, so thanks
(33:17):
for being part of this community. I hope you enjoyed
this episode, and if you did leave us a rating,
please be nice.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Tell your friends about us.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content,
or on our website, she Pivots the Podcast Talk to
You Next Week special thanks to the she pivots team.
Executive producer Emily eda Velosik, Associate producer and social media
(33:47):
connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics
coordinator Madeleine Sonovak, and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock
I enjoy she Pivot
Welcome back to She Pivots. I am Gina Ortiz Jones.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted
these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. This week,
I'm delighted to welcome Gina Ortiz Jones to the podcast.
(00:36):
My path almost crossed with Gina when I worked for
the Service Members Legal Defense Network working to repeal Don't Ask,
Don't Tell, an archaic policy that bard gay members of
the military from talking about or acknowledging their identity. Gina
went on to make history as the first woman of
color and out lesbian to serve as undersecretary of a
military department. So it's no surprise that I wanted to
(00:58):
have her on the show to talk about the stark
pivot from a military experience that silenced her to serving
as undersecretary as an openly gay woman. Service to country
has always been a center point in Gina's life. She
grew up in Texas, the daughter of immigrants surrounded by
military bases. Not only was gratitude to America instilled in her,
(01:19):
but many people she knew went into service, so it
was only natural for Gina to follow that same path,
leading her to join the Air Force. Her dedication to
service carried her through various pivots, from leaving the Air
Force to take care of her mother who was ill
with cancer, to serving as undersecretary, to leaving during the
Trump administration, to running for Congress to now running a pack.
(01:42):
She has truly made so many pivots throughout her life. Also,
in true military and security fashion, we weren't able to
allow Gina's computer to access the microphone. So Gina's audio
is straight from her computer, or so you might hear
a bit of a difference.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Enjoy. So I'm Gino Ortiz Jones, and I served as
the twenty seventh Under Secretary of the Air Force, and
I am currently the founder of find Out Pack.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So we will go in chronological order, like let's plant
the seeds, Let's go back like little Gina, where did
you grow up?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
What was life like like? What did you want to
be when you grew up? Well, like when I spoke
about my story, I don't talk about only me. My
story really starts with my mom, right, my mom came
to this country as a domestic helper. My mom graduated
from the number one university in the Philippines, but she
came here as a domestic helper. She wanted her shot
at the American dream, and when it presented herself, she
(02:37):
jumped at it right. I think that is always what
she instilled in my younger sister and I, that we
were very lucky to call this very special country home.
We were lucky, not smart, We were lucky to be
born here, and we have to give back. And I
think that American dream is still so motivating for so
so many others, and we've got a work to protect that.
So my mom raised my younger sister and I by herself.
(02:59):
My sister is is all of fourteen months standard and I,
so we are very very close. My mom is a
public school teacher. She recently graduate retires excuse me a
couple of years ago. But San Antonio is my home.
I'm very proud to be a proud product of public education.
I went to Adams Tell Elementary School, Pea's Middle School,
John Jay High School here in San Antonio, San Antonio's
(03:20):
Military City, USA, and there was something for me about
military service I think again, like my uncle had actually
served in the Navy. He came to the US as
part of the US Navy Stewart program where they were
recruiting US Filipino men to serve in the US Navy.
So again, just another reminder how special this country is
and the opportunities that we are afforded only because we
lived here writ in our fortunates, call our selves Americans.
(03:41):
But you know, my mom worked very hard, lots of
times where she was working multiple jobs and made reduced lunch,
subsidized housing. I know first hand experience with each of
those things.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Raised to feel a sense of pride in her country
by her mom, who immigrated while also being surrounded by
military bases, it was no surprisewing up, Gina dreamed of
serving her country.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So yeah, so what did I want to be when
I grew up? That grew up That's a big question,
I think, you know. I I remember watching shows like
mc iver and really thinking that was cool. It's somewhere
it's not like the like the national security space, but
in a little bit of a different way. And I
think I've always there's something about like the order and
the discipline of military service that has always been attractive.
I didn't know exactly. I think maybe though at one
(04:24):
point I also thought about being a lawyer, but I
you know, it was very drawn to public service, to
national security. So what I ended up doing when I
am doing to me is not super surprising. Yeah, what
did that?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
How does being international security play out as a kid?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Like?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Did you play spy games? Were you in like a
robotics club?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Like?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
How did that play out?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
So?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
San Antonio is military CDUSA, and the high school that
I went to, John Jay High School, is right down
the stream from Lachlan Air Force Base, which is the
gateway to the Air Force. Everyone that enlists in the
US Air Force goes through Lacklane, and so you can
imagine we had a pretty robust Air Force Junior ROTC program,
And that was I was drawn to that. Right, There
(05:08):
were more people at O ROTC than they were my
graduating high school class. I mean, that's how big of
a draw I was. And I actually mentioned, you know,
because my mom was working a lot. I mean, there
was one point in time where she was working in
as a poetic school teacher, but she was having a
hard time finding something here in San Antonio. She found
something in Laredo, though, which is about two hundred miles
from here, and so she would leave, you know, Monday
(05:31):
mornings work there in Laredo, and then come back Fridays.
And she did that for about a yek home, say
it was a year or two. And so my sister
and I grew up very fast, right, I think we
were you know, so you know, pretty I think, like
preteen at that time, and so taking care of each other.
But we just saw how hard my mom was working,
the sacrifice that she was making for what she wanted
to do, and how she knew she wanted to provide
(05:52):
for us.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Even though she grew up quickly and learned to be independent,
Gina was close with her mom, and in the nineties
she came out to her when she was just fifteen.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I mean I remember having crushes on my teacher as
a very very young kid, like first grade, you know,
second grade. So I have always known that I was
one different and that my attraction was not to little
boys or boys, right like, So that has always been
pretty clear to me. I think, you know, there's always
some questioning as a young person, right, I had a
(06:23):
boyfriend in high school, but like you just you just
kind of know right that this is something about this
it doesn't fit right. And so I think kids know
very quickly, and I think it's really about creating the
environment that allow them to be to express themselves and
make sure that they feel safe and protected and can
talk about their feelings if they if they so choose,
(06:44):
And really that's I mean, that's that's what you want, right,
You want somebody that feels safe and protected around you,
and if they are dealing with something that is hard
for them, that you are there to help them if anything.
You know, I was raised in a deeply Catholic family
and I am a practicing to stay and so our
faith has always i mean has shaped us. But my
(07:05):
mom has always been you know, it's always been about
unconditional love and being a good person. And so yeah,
I did come out to my mom when I was
abouteen fifteen, sixteen, and I'll never forget. We were actually
sitting on the couch in the living room and she
was looking at a magazine or reading a newspaper. She's something, right,
It was like it was big enough. I was blocking
her face and I said, Mom, I think I I think,
(07:27):
I you know, I think I like girls, and without
missing a beat, without looking up, she's like, I think
you just like the clothes I've been wearing. And that
was like that that was the end of that conversation,
and I knew, I mean, I know my mom right
like that was the end of that conversation and so
we didn't pick it up again until you know, much
much later. But I have never felt judged by my mom.
(07:50):
I think it's just, you know, moms they want to
protect you, and I think moms they know what hardship
that could bring, right even though you're living your truth,
that could be difficult, and so I think she was
just trying to be protective. But you know, now, I couldn't.
I couldn't have a bigger, sheerleader than my mom, to
be honest, and uh, And I am very thankful for
that because I know for some folks, unfortunately, it's still
(08:12):
too hard to come out. And that's and that's.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
She loved her mom, there was no question, but as
a result of becoming independent at a young age, she
began to act out.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
As a result of that, though, I was like, you know,
seeking some attention at school and frankly, being a little
bit of a knucklehead, to be honest, So I'll just
fast forward that story. But I ended up being on
probation for about six months after an altercation with another student.
My mom had to pay fine, and I'll never forget Emily,
like standing in that courtroom and looking at that judge
(08:43):
and really seeing the disappointment on my mom's face and thinking,
you know, I could do something better than this. This
is this is not where I want to be. So,
you know, did Junior r OTC. I was in student
council all four years, ended up being the president of
student council, and ended up all four years in Junior ROTC.
Does the top debt in that program. And then it
(09:03):
was fortunate to earn Air Force RTC scholarship that took
me to Vosity University. And even before my very first
class at BU, I had to sign a piece of
paper that said I will not engage in homosexual behavior
because don't ask, don't tell was the policy at the time,
even for cadets. And so I mean, but I but
I also knew what that meant, right, and again being
(09:24):
raised by a single mom. But there's not a lot
of resources. There's like there's a lot in the line. Financially,
I mean my ability to get an education, my ability
to serve our country, my ability to die for our country.
It's me being you know, all that goes away just
because at the time we didn't have enough leaders with
the courage to say anybody ready and willing to serve
their country should have the opportunity to do so. So
(09:44):
I knew what was on on the line, but it
wasn't to me. It wasn't a it wasn't an option
to just kind of come out, because there was there
was so much writing on me being able to get
an education and do other things that I wanted to do,
and so I didn't come out probably until like obviously
after I left to the military, because don't ask, don't
tell was the policy the entire time that I served.
And you know, of course you mean into folks that
(10:07):
were LGBTQ in the military, but it was it was
really just unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Don't ask, don't tell was an archaic policy, but when
it was implemented, it was meant as a solution to
a harsh discrimination against LGBTQ plus people in the military.
It was certainly not perfect, and so many service members
suffered experiences that will live with them for the rest
of their lives.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
And it was then that I told him that this
was my partner and then this was my fiance. My
commanding officer said, you should surrender your weapon and expect
it if sonomable discharge.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
And also it sort of weighs on you over time
because you deal with little questions every day, what'd you
do this weekend? Well, you know, I'm not allowed to say, well,
I spent it with my partner, So you are, You're
constantly living a lie every day.
Speaker 7 (10:58):
In that process, where I had finally felt I belonged
to something, all of that fell away and I felt
like I was completely by myself.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
When a policy whose premise is secrecy, there were consequences
that were seemingly invisible that had a massive impact on
lives and careers of service members, and Gina was not immune.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
The fact that again the very first thing I even
before my first class, like assigning that piece of paper,
that showed you just how important that policy was. Right,
and the I think for you know, I can't speak
for how others you know, interpreted me or understood me,
but yeah, there is this kind of you know, I
can't say too much or I can't. Let me be
careful of what I say. I don't want it to
(11:43):
be misunderstood, right, because yeah, I mean if you're it's
interesting because you know, you're trying to not be perceived
one way. Even though you had some of the traits
associated with being a leader, being assertive, being having presence,
some of those things are understood as masculine right Wrongly,
it's it's associated with a gender, and so you're like, well,
(12:04):
let me not do too much of that because I
don't want to be associated with something that could somebody
could potentially raise a question about you know who I am. Right,
So there's this very delicate balance for I think for
women in particular, there's something about that like oh, she's
just like she's a lesbian or like you know what
I mean, Like that that kind of like very dismissive.
But you also never know. And that's the thing, right,
(12:25):
what I just said there is like you never know,
and that's that was all that's always kind of in
the back of your mind, like just you just never know.
So it's much more beneficial to you to frankly protect
yourself and however you see fit and a lot of
that to your point is and not divulging too much,
but then not creating those trust bonds that certainly mal
share members are known for, and that I think is
is truly the unfortunate piece, because yeah, I mean, that's
(12:47):
so much of the military experiences is forming those really
tight bonds, and if you're not sharing information with each other,
then then it's hard to create that.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Do you think it prevented you from advancing?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
You must admit you know that experience of serving under
don't ask hotel and frankly having a first hand experience
of having leaders that could not be equally vested in
your success as the success of others that they were leading,
which because it was the policy, has absolutely shaped everything
that I've done since, right, how I think about leadership,
(13:20):
how I think about talent management, how I think about
the talent pipeline, how I think about creating organizations, challenging assumptions,
and frankly leaning into the power that you have because
you never know who that is going to impact, maybe
not today, maybe not next week, but certainly down the line.
And if only for your example, right to have the
(13:40):
courage to speak up and push out on those things.
And I think for those of us that have that
experience and know what it's like. You know, shame on
us for not stepping up and pushing back is if
we have the opportunity to do so. But I mean
I didn't feel like it hindered my professional advancement. I
think more probably just a professional comfort. But again, you
(14:02):
know that my time was was that was relatively short time,
and it was very early in my career. I've had
I know folks who had a much different experience as
a result of that, because there was just more times
for it to be an issue for them, right, which
then affected the opportunities that they had before them.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
When we come back, Gina opens up about her mother's
experience with cancer and how it not only changed her
mom's life but her own. Gina had always known one
thing that she wanted to serve, but when her mom
was diagnosed with colon cancer, everything changed.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
And I'll never forget we were I surprised her. It
was after the deployment and we were in the kitchen.
She's wearing this pink bracelet. They had that pink rubber bracelet.
I was like, Mom, what's uh oh? And she she
asked me, was like, what's that what's that bracelet for?
And I was like, oh, it's like it's been breast
cancer Awareness month. And she's like, oh, well, well, what
would you do if mommy told you she had cancer?
And like that's how she told me, A very like yeah,
(15:04):
I mean that's my mom though, And I was like
wait what? And so your whole world just kind of
everything changes. What was important is not important, What you
didn't know was important is all of a sudden super important.
So I made the decision, you know, right away, that
that was going to be with her. I'd have a
lot of jobs, I'd do a lot of sayings with
my life that I have one mom and it's really
important for me that I view with her.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
For anyone not familiar with the military, you can't just leave. Fortunately,
Gina was able to leave because at the time there
was a program in place in the Air Force where
they were looking to make cuts due to budgetary constraints.
So Gina took advantage of that and made her way
back home.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
So I came back to San Antonio again, really still
committed to the National Security mission and worked right along, straightly,
right alongside the Army here in San Antonio on military
operations Latiner, So you.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Were able to find kind of a civilian job but
still really in military service.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, that's right. And it was great because, you know,
it was interesting because at the time, a lot of
the focus obviously, this is two thousand and two thousand
and six, so all focuses arack in Afghanistan. Submissions that
I was focused on, though, we're on Latin America and
the Andean Ridge, so Colombia, Venezuela, were Peru, and that
was just a totally different obviously area that we were
(16:21):
looking at. But some of those challenges in that region,
you know, the effects of colonialism, petro diplomacy, all these
other things, right, like ethnic racial tensions, in tribal tensions
in some certain areas, the relationships with indigenous communities. A
lot of that was it really allowed you to kind
of sink your teeth into some some geopolitics that most
folks are not super familiar with, but frankly is like
(16:43):
the meat and guts of how we understand and how
we understand our challenges and opportunities. So after having done
that for a couple of years, I was able to
it was a natural fit when I was offered to
be part of the initial team that stood up US
Africa Command. We saw a lot of those similar challenges
and opportunities, and we're trying to think of security, cooperation
and partner engagement in a different way. So having just
(17:04):
spent all that time trying to understand what that meant
in Latin America, really a great opportunity to think through
some of those challenges on a different content.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Well, you had found kind of a balance between your
professional career and professional goals and personal because you were
able to do it by still living at home with
your mom. Did the calculation change for you then to
go to Africa?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, Well, my mom, frankfully, you know, by that time,
she'd been cancer free for a couple of years, thankfully,
and so we actually had a conversation about that, and
you know, your mom always wants to just kind of
do what makes sense for you, and I felt comfortable,
just based on her health, that I could I could
pursue that opportunity. So, yeah, when I was offered to
be part of the initial team that stood up US
(17:49):
Africa Command that was in Germany, it took that opportunity.
It's interesting because there was a tidot there too, because
I actually had a scholarship to go to Wisconsin Law
because either go to Wisconsin Law or go to US
Africa Command. And it was interesting. I remember I was
actually driving to the post office drop some stuff off
because I had gone. I went to visit. I saw
(18:12):
Bucky and I was sold right, and I went Emily.
I went in January, and you know January in Wisconsin,
like the snow is, you know, three times as high
as you. But it was such a warm, wealthy environment.
It's still and the school police it still has a
special place in my heart, to be honest, because it
was such a welcoming experience. But yeah, I was driving
(18:32):
to the post office and to drop something off and
I heard they were doing a hiring fair in town
for US Africa Command. And I was like, huh, that's interesting.
Let me that sounds kind of cool, right, because we
don't stand these things up every night, overnight or every day.
So to be part of something that was new and
exciting like that and obviously in the interest of national security.
(18:54):
So I went, I interviewed, got an offer on the spot,
and didn't look back.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
She went on to work for the Defense Intelligence Agency THEDIA,
leaving Law school behind and returning back to service. After
the break, Gina makes another pivot and joins none other
than the Executive Office of the President, now serving as
(19:21):
a senior advisor to the Director of the DIA. Gina
was high on everyone's radar, so much so that the
Obama administration noticed her and recruited her to work on
a new project.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So, my background academically is economics, so always very fascinated
by and as an intelligence analyst, you see a lot
of that the economic aspects to some of the national
security challenges that we are facing. So to me, I've
always been very interested in how those things intersect, especially
when they produce inequities that then lead to conflict. So yeah,
(19:53):
when I was working at the DIA headquarters Defense Intelligence
Agency headquarters, that was an opportunity. In twenty twelve, as
Obama stood up the Interagency Trade Enforcement Center and this
was the whole of government approach to protecting American intellectual property,
and in that executive order, he said there would be
a senior member from the intelligence community to help the
(20:14):
intelligence community support this mission, but also helped the rest
of the interagency understand what the intelligence community could and
could not do.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So I was the second person to serve in that position,
and what a great opportunity to learn about, you know,
aspects of the of the economic national security uprights that
I was not as familiar with. So we were housed
at the Office US Trade Representative and so engaged quite
a bit with the General Counsel's Office there as they
were preparing cases for the World Trade Organization, but also
(20:42):
to understand just how important and frankly, what a what
a thread there was to our to our national security
as a result of the loss of wealth that was
stolen by PRC actors. So putting all of that into context, right,
was how we run to how we needed to think
about engaging in certain areas.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
To summarize for anyone who isn't well versed in the
complex military and government work, Gina basically worked at the
intersection of global trade policies and intelligence. There is no
question that the economy has a large impact on the
sustainability of the world, and Gina's job was to identify
areas that could be at risk due to trade and
economic impacts. But it was quite the shift for her
(21:27):
working in the Department of Defense to now working in
one of the smallest government agencies changed how she was
able to approach issues and the seriousness with which they
were taken.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Now, this is a pivot, Emily, when you go from
being at DoD so you're like the gorilla in the room,
right when you're like the DoD rep to meetings, and
then you go into the meeting and you're the opposite
of the US Trade Rep. And as like as holl
As Cabinet agency, and you're talking about reciprocity, if you will,
like roll their eyes, right, it was to be always
amazing when you get Commerce, Treasury, DOJ and States roll
(21:59):
their eyes at the same time. I'm cool, no, but
but they was really important, right, Like economic reciprocity is important.
I mean we have to think about how the implication,
what the implications would be if country extra why did
the same thing to American businesses and what that would mean.
So a very very important voice to be heard.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
But so Trump was elected became the president, I mean,
what did you think would happened to your position to
your career, Like did you think that you could still
have an impact as essentially a bureaucrat.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Well, I think a lot of people in national security
saying that you know, national security is a political right.
It's about the facts, it's about the country, and it's
about good judgment right because lives on the line. American
leadership is on the line, and that has always been motivating.
Like it never talked politics tech politics, that were never never, never,
like it's just not something that you do now. Personally, obviously,
(22:48):
through his campaign, I was quite concerned as a woman,
as an LGBTQ person, as somebody that didn't grow up
with a lot of means, but I think relied on
many of the opportunities that he was talking about take
me away. On top of just the way he was
talking about immigrants. Again, my mom came to this country
as a domestic helper, though she graduates from the number
one university in the country. Right, So this idea that
(23:10):
he was den renizing people that were coming here, working
hard and serving the country now was the next generation
is serving the country is just so at odds with
what I thought a commander in chief, how they would
conduct themselves, right man or woman to be frank and
so yeah, so I thought, but I did. I was like, well,
let me see what good I can do right from within,
because we all were all a political it's about the constitution.
(23:33):
But six months, you know, six months into that, and
it was just very clear based on you know, and
fringly based on the people that he had brought in
that I worked with at the opposite, the US Trade Representative,
on top of watching the policies that he was enacting
in other parts of the government. And I remember, so
we're briefing the higher ups and so it's funny. We
were in the briefing and he's like, wait, wait, wait,
are we going to reproach on or anti China? And
(23:54):
I was like, this is the Trump a point tee
at the time that we were briefing, and I just
thought like, One, that's not what this is about. Like,
that's not how we do this. In my head, obviously,
I'm thinking that's not how we do this. But also
this is so dangerous and it's so uninformed that it's
and it's like really just kind of not where I
think I can I can best serve. I don't know
(24:15):
if I want to be part of this. I think
by that Tom already made the decision that I was
going to leave based on some of the things I
had seen. But for me, that really similar aside that
I needed to serve in a different with So.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
She left the Trump administration and began to think about
her next pivot. Staying true to her values, she kept
service at the Center and she ran for Congress in
Texas's twenty third district, becoming the first gay woman of
color and military veteran running for office in Texas.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
So came back to San Ontario, ran for office, lost
that election by that nine hundred some Amauto votes. Didn't
get a lot of help from national Democrats at the time.
But there's nothing like running for office, and there's nothing
like running to serve your community. And having had the experience,
I think of no how important American leadership is, knowing
how important those investments are, Knowing that it's how important
(25:04):
it is for people to serve authentically and openly so
they can serve to the rest potential and best serve
the country. Right. But a lot of that that certainly
depends on your ability to do That depends on the
will of the people, right, and their engagement in American
politics is based on how well they are not being served.
So running for office was an invaluable experience. I learned
(25:24):
a lot as a results of it.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
So President Biden fast Bard, President Biden's elected nominates you
as the under Secretary of Air Force, confirmed by the Senate,
the first woman of color, first open lesbian in the position.
You served for a number of months, made a big impact,
and then you left, and I think that a lot
of people would have looked at where you were and said, wow,
like she's doing it, Like she's doing the thing, She's
(25:47):
at the peak. What made you walk away at that point?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
So serving for shy of two years, well, I always
knew that I was not going to serve the full term.
And so as you know, as an appointee, you always
want to give the administration as much kind of as
the courtesy of having them identify, go through the vetting
process and then nominate who they prefer, right they who
they would like to and as you know, and unfortunately
that Center tuber Bill has shown that can be a
(26:14):
very nasty process. And so you know, for me, as
you know, in fourteen democratic politics, midterms and normally when
you see kind of an exodus of folks that lead
the administration if they are if they're not going to
stay in the full time. But yeah, as you mentioned,
very proud of the things I got across the finish line, right,
And a lot of that I think goes back to
what I described earlier, which is, if you have the
experience of serving under leadership that cannot be equally invested
(26:37):
in your success, that you push back on those opportunities. So,
you know, changing the policy about when women can fly
when they're pregnant, you know, pushing to have the first
female officer attend the Tie Air Command and Staff College,
which is you know, is a very big deal not
only for that individual, for our country, but also certainly
for the example the leadership that we said that we
(26:57):
display in the end of Pacific at this moment in time.
Really proud also of the way in was we tackled
some of the ugly pieces, right, some of the not
so nice pieces, how we address and how we handle
prevent sexual assault, sexual harassment, how we take care of victims, etc. So,
you know, very very honored to have served in that way.
But I mean, my heart is here in San Antonio,
(27:18):
my heartings and always in public service, and so I
look forward to to serving in the next one.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
She forged ahead, using her years of experience in the
federal government and campaigning to start the find Out Pack,
whose mission is to unseat the three Supreme Court justices
in Texas who have ruled against women's health and reproductive freedoms.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Last December, I was reading about the Kate Cox case and,
like you know, following along with many folks.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Kate Cox's heartbreaking story is just one of the thousands
that have come out since Roe was overturned and states
have stripped away women's reproductive health care. For Cox, who
was already a mother of two, her pregnancy was a
life threatening risk to her, so questioned an exemption to
allow her to legally have a safe procedure to save
her life.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And then they reached the decision that they did, and
I was very I think a lot like surprising a
lot of folks that they would have reached that decision
given the circumstances. Right, we only have one medical exception
in our state, and her doctor, this woman's doctor, said
she needed a medical exception, she qualified for one, Yet
this partisan Supreme Court said that she did not qualify.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Their Supreme Court ruled that the life of a woman
is not valuable, that they would rather her die.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And we start with.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
New developments in a case of a Texas woman seeking
a court ruling to get an emergency abortion. She has
already left the state to get medical care, but that
story continues here.
Speaker 8 (28:43):
Tonight, Attorney General Ken Paxton argued that the fatal diagnosis
for her feet is and the danger Trisley eighteen poses
to Cox's life and her fertility does not qualify for
a Texas medical exemption.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Bottom line tonight is that Kate Cox cannot get an
abortion in Texas right now, even after she received permission
from a Travis County court on Friday. Tonight, the Supreme
Court said that her doctor did not establish that the
abortion is needed in her reasonable medical judgment, even though
that doctor, to be sure, very much believes the abortion
(29:16):
is necessary for Cox's health and her future fertility.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
And so I was like, well, look these like one
who are these folks? But two like this is this
is ridiculous. And my reaction is a little bit more
of this role is, you know, fuck around and find out.
And that's where we find out. Pack comes from. It's
a very scientific concept and omydiam these folks are this
podcast will be found familiar with it. But the whole
point is to unseat these three justices that are up
(29:43):
in November. So do in Texas elect all of our
Supreme Court justices. They go through partisan elections. The nine
court bench. Scuse me, the ninth bench court is all Republican.
We've got three folks that are up now. So Jimmy Blacklock,
John Devine, Jane Bland, Jimmy John and Jane. That's really
their names. Books can go to find out pack dot
com to check out our launch video. Certainly contribute and
(30:07):
I think, look, we're optimistic, Emily. This has never been done.
We've never changed. We've never challenged the make of the
Supreme Court before the Texas Supreme Court too, these justices
have never been challenged. And secondly, we are optimistic based
on what we have seen in other conservative states, right Kansas, Kentucky, Ohio.
When the issue reproductive freedom is on the ballot, people
(30:27):
turn out even in conservative states. And Texans are with us. Right.
There was a poll that just came out last year.
Eighty two percent of Texans support a medical exception. It's
not even close, right, So, how where these justices are
versus where Texans are is a huge rift. And you
know in the ad you'll see that we talked about
Jimmy John and Jane and what they did. We don't
(30:49):
talk about political party because regardless of you know, the
two parties might be on very different sides of this,
and they clearly are, but that doesn't make the fact
that somebody should be able to listen to their doctor,
somebody is able to get healthcare in their own state,
somebody should be able to make decisions about their own bodies.
Those are not partisan issues, right, So we're very clear
if you're upset about what's happened to Kate Cox or
(31:09):
what's happened to any of the others, any of these
other women, the solution is to vote out to Jimmy
John and Jane Coop Member, what is.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
One thing that at the time you felt like was
like real negative, like you weren't sure you're going to
get out of it, and now in retrospect you see
it as having really launched you into the position you
are right now.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I think, and maybe this is less of an issue
for folks around just given the time that we live
in now, but I think you know, at some point
in time, you make a decision in your life that
you are going to live your authentic self and whether
that means coming out, And I think that is what
that means for me, because that is the moment when
I said I'm going to come out and be who
I am. You're then able to channel all of that
(31:49):
energy and all of that those resources on doing the
things that you want to accomplish, right and you're no
longer afraid of looking over your shoulder or worried about
franking what others are going to think of you because
they're going to say something anyways, right, like whatever. But
I think that moment where and sometimes it takes a
couple of moments right where you're like, Nope, I'm gonna
do this. This is this is the thing that's most
(32:09):
needed now. And it's interesting. I was talking to somebody
else about find out pack and they're a little bit
they're a little bit older and there, and their response was, well,
are you afraid? Are you afraid like of the maybe
potential backlash of this issue, Like, no, I'm not, because
it's the right thing. It's this is the right thing
to do. We're talking about, you know, the ability to
make decisions about your body and the ability to get
(32:30):
healthcare in your own state, like and if you're gonna
if there's gonna be a backlash to that will and
still be a.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Well Gina, thank you so much for joining. Thanks Emily,
thank you so much for listening to Gina's episode. She
is still working hard to have the goals of find
out Pack realized and women's health care protected. This is
an essential issue and I'm so grateful that Gina is
using her passion for service for this. If you want
(32:57):
to get involved or donate, visit their website and find
out Packed, or follow them on Instagram at find out Pak.
You can also follow Gina on her personal instagram at
Gina Ortiz Jones Texas for all the latest updates. Thanks
for listening to this episode of She Pivots. If you
made it this far, you're a true pivoter, so thanks
(33:17):
for being part of this community. I hope you enjoyed
this episode, and if you did leave us a rating,
please be nice.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Tell your friends about us.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content,
or on our website, she Pivots the Podcast Talk to
You Next Week special thanks to the she pivots team.
Executive producer Emily eda Velosik, Associate producer and social media
(33:47):
connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics
coordinator Madeleine Sonovak, and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock
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