Jenna Bush Hager and Barbara Bush

Jenna Bush Hager and Barbara Bush sit down with Kate and Oliver this week on Sibling Revelry. They discuss their shared perspective as twins, their time in the White House, how their family informed their childhood, and much more.

Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson

Produced by Allison Bresnick

Edited by Josh Windisch

Music by Mark Hudson

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This episode is sponsored by:

Coors Light (coorslight.com/HUDSON)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and
what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling raivalry. No, no, sibling.

(00:25):
You don't do that with your mouth revelry. That's good. Hello,
and well, I can't believe it our first back at

(00:47):
it for long. It's been a while. We've been done
this for a while. I know, I know, and and
the people have been clamoring, and so we just said,
you know what, we gotta come back gone to save
the world. We have to do. We have to save
the world, one sibling relationship at a time, exactly. Starting

(01:08):
off with Jenna and Barbara Bush. Yes, which I loved.
I didn't. I really didn't know what you expect. I mean,
I've been interviewed by Jenna. Have you been interviewed by
Jenna before? No, I haven't. And she's great, always has
such great energy and and I always love seeing her
and Barbara. I've has been at at the house. We've
had like a night together, we hung out. So the

(01:31):
fraternal twins and there are first siblings who have ever
lived in the White House. So who else do we
need to get well, we should get the Obamas. We
need you know, we need Sasha and Malia. We need
and Malia. And what would actually be a really crazy podcast,
which I think would be really interesting, would be Jeb
and President Bush. Oh yeah, but I don't know. Maybe

(01:56):
maybe after they found out that Jenna and Barbara did it,
maybe they're like, oh, well, we want to be cool too. Jenna.
Jenna's the co host of NBC Today's with Hoda and Jenna,
and she's the founder of the Today book club Read
with Jenna, and we need a book club, by the
way we've been talking about I would, yeah, we should
do a family book club. That would be hysterical. I

(02:19):
would enjoy that. Yeah, anyway something. Barbara is the co
founder and the board chair of Global Health Core, you know,
and she's also vice president of the Social Impact for
the NBA. They just knew so many amazing things. Yeah,
and they're really fun. They're super easygoing, very personable, and

(02:40):
and they both they wrote this children's book. This is
what they even. They didn't come on for their health
you know what I mean. They came on our podcast.
Of course they love the Hudson's but They actually wrote
a children's book. It's their newest one called Loves Comes
First and it's on bookshelves November seventh, twenty twenty three,
twenty twenty twenty three, so it's coming anyway. We talked

(03:04):
about everything. We talked a lot about their rebellious years,
ghost stories in the White House, the influence of their
parents and grandparents, much more. So. Enjoy this episode. Hello
hell siblings, Hi, how are y'all? How are you? I'm good,

(03:28):
I'm glad we figured this out. This is so funn
Let me get the book. Hold on one thing. First
of all, why don't you guys, uh, sort of introduce
yourself and talk about Jenna. I mean we've you know,
you've interviewed me a couple of times. Have you been
interviewed by Jenna? And holda? Have you you need to
come on our show? I know you're not you're not
feeling me, and that's fine. You need to be invited

(03:51):
on the show. It's it's uh. I didn't want to
bring it up, but it's bullshit. We'll talk about it late,
but let's just start with where we are now and
you guys in your life and like what you're you know,
what you're up to, and then we'll go back and
delve into that childhood. Well, so yes, I got to

(04:16):
interview you. I've also had the opportunity to talk with
your loveliest mom, which is always when I'm Ahooda and
my favorite guest or she is. She's like just light
the best. And so yeah, I work every day on television,
which is hilarious and something I never thought I would do.

(04:36):
I thought I was going to teach, and I did
teach and Inner City DC in West Baltimore for the
first several years of my career, and then I made
this pivot and it's it's really fun because I'm curious
and I'm interested in the way that people live and
are and what lights them up. And I get to

(04:57):
sit next to I enjoy full, a true, joyful heal.
It's awesome. What made you want to even attempt doing this? Yeah,
well I did not want to, and I turned the
job down. For the first sevel years. I was like, oh, okay,

(05:17):
that says nothing I would ever want to do. And
I was on the show for a book that I
that I wrote, which is why they said, oh, you'd
be really good at this. Would you ever do this,
and I was like, no, I never would, And so
I continued to teach. But honestly, teaching and particularly in
our country's marginalized areas, is hard. It's really hard. And

(05:38):
I was working insane hours. I dreamed of my students.
I was stressed, like a lot of our teachers in
our country. And my husband was like, maybe you should
go take that meeting. You know, it can be a
different sort of way of teaching, a different way of
telling stories. And so I did dream about your students.

(06:00):
I dreamed about my students right like. It was all consuming,
all consuming. Yeah, I was thinking, you know. And they
actually when I had the interview at the Today Show,
they were like, what do you like about the show?
And I was like, oh, I've never seen it. I'm
at school. Yeah, I'm usually driving to school, Thanksac. But
so I think, you know, for the first year, I

(06:21):
was a reading specialist, and I commuted from Baltimore, where
I lived, to New York and I worked doing both.
But at some point I made the decision to be
all in and I'm so glad I did. That's so great, Barbara,
What about you? What are you up to these days?
So I work in global health. I've worked in global

(06:42):
health pretty much my whole career. I started and ran
an organization called Global Health Core for ten years, and
now I work for a philanthropist. And it's been a
busy two years given COVID and everything that's been going
on in the world. So it's been fun to feel
like I'm sitting on the sidelines of that, and and

(07:03):
I had a baby, so I'm figuring that all out
at the same time. It's a lot of fun. My god,
that is so well. So where did you guys grow up?
We grew up in Texas. We grew up in Austin
from middle school in high school, so I feel like
we think Austin is home. Really we were born in
West Texas, which is like, I don't know if any

(07:23):
of you been to West Texas, but like, if I'm
in a room with New Yorkers, nobody has ever been
to where we're from, which is a really small town
called Midland, and in West Texas is like the desert.
If you all been to Marfa, it's very similar to that. Yeah,
and it's and we lived near our mom's parents Hululu.

(07:47):
I'm named after Jenna Welch and our Grandpa Harold, who
passed away when we were thirteen, But they were desert people.
He was a home builder and she never graduated from college,
but she was like a life long naturalist and learner.
She taught us all the constellations in the sky. She
had a rock collection that Barbara and I would like

(08:07):
go look at, and she would teach us about the
rocks and how they were made. And she took community
college classes till she was too old to drive, till
she got into a car accident and we were like,
I can't drive anymore. So they really kind of informed
so much of our early childhood. M hmmm, how cool

(08:29):
is it? Friday Night Lights? Was that West Texas? That's
Dylan right, totally? Yes, I never got into Friday Night
Oh it's so good. That was good. Watch it now.
It's incredible. I just rewatched it and it's amazing. Were
you guys, wait, were you don't I'm trying to think
of how old you guys are. Were you born when
your grandpa was president? Ye? When we were born vice president?

(08:55):
And so that was sort of like what we entered
the world with on that side of our family, and
we were super close with them and would visit them
in DC all the time. But our day to day
was much more informed by my mom's parents, Harold and Jenna.
Oh okay, And what did Harold to do? He was
like in construction. He was a home builder, and in fact,

(09:18):
he built the home that my mom grew up in
and that my grandmother lived in until she was had
to move tout like a retirement community in her late
eighties early nineties. So that was more of your life then,
was that side of things where grandpa was vice president?
It was like vice what like? Or was that a

(09:39):
close to him? You know? So it wasn't like we
could go over every weekend, but when we were with him,
you know, we loved him and they were super present.
But yeah, our life was much sort of smaller in
scale than I think people probably as soon for how
long really, I think until my dad became president. Yeah,

(10:01):
so we were eight Our dad became president when we
were eighteen, And I feel like, if God, did you
have did you hate that? I mean, was it just like,
oh Jesus Christ, are you fucking kidding me right now?
Like I'm eighteen years old? Like is this really happening? Well,
you guys were in the White House though, right, they
were in college. Yeah, we're in college. Yeah, it's still

(10:23):
secret service. All of a sudden, you're like, you can't
go to a party, Like, thanks dad, thank you. We're
didn't respond well when he told us wedding for president.
Oh really really we were for sixteen, which was probably
even quietly more temperamental than we and I like, will
never forget it. Crying. Yeah, do you remember where we were, Barbara? No,

(10:47):
do you I remember crying when we're outside, Like took
us outside to sit on this bench to be like
I think he thought like maybe the outdoor nature a
bit would calm us down. But we both cried in unison,
worst than the tears. At the same time, we told

(11:07):
him he was going to lose, He's going to ruin
our life, which we've since apologized and we said we
were sorry that. We were like, how could you do
this to us? Oh my god? It makes sense though,
like sixteen year old girls, I mean, and then your
dad decides to run for president, which is like I mean,
talk about the most like being in the craziest spotlight.

(11:31):
I mean, that is just talk about a difficult thing.
At that age, I couldn't imagine, how did your dad
respond when you're like, fuck you dad, my life. But
it was he just like all right, girls, like relax.
He was actually he's actually like was really calm. I
mean I think I don't understanding about it. She was

(11:52):
calm about it. Like he didn't react. He wasn't very
reactive with us, which I think was a good way
to be with the way our person these work, like Wednesday,
it's like two on one all the time, so it's better.
It was better to be calm with us. Well, let's
go back a little bit. Your twins were twins, you're

(12:15):
fraternal twins, and I mean we've we've been lucky enough
to interview a couple of twins. Now we actually interviewed
an expert in twins, which was really interesting. Yeah, but
let's go back to like your first memories, Like, do
you guys have very vivid, specific first memories as as kids. Well,

(12:39):
I mean my first memories definitely. And this is the
thing about being a twin is that you're my whole world.
Like everything that I am is because of Barbara, Like
she was the one that taught me what love looked like.
We had the same we were the same exact age,

(12:59):
so therefore, like none of us had had different perspectives
some things, like we had a very shared history and
a shared perspective on the history. So definitely, I just remember,
like at my form of love at that age, which
could still be lingering, very aggressive, like I just wanted

(13:21):
to like weeze barbaras. I loved her so much, I
just wanted to like eat her, hold hers so tight,
and she her love is slightly more gentle. I remember
bothering you. I do you remember you smothering me? Those
are some of my first memories, but they were you
were smothering me with love. But I have no childhood

(13:43):
memories that don't have Jenna in them, and like the
ones that I remember from when we were the youngest,
or when if Jenna was hurt, or something like being
worried for my sister, or like us like exploring together,
because the best thing about a twin is you have
a playmate at all times, and you have no scary
first moments as a twin, like the first day of school,

(14:05):
you have a partner to do it with, or when
Jenna was I remember Jenna broke her jaw when we
were in pre K and I remember like being with
her at school during that Like it was so amazing
that you have someone by your side and all these moments.
And for us it meant that we had someone to
have a huge imagination with. It made everything fun so great.

(14:28):
We're jealous? Sounds great. That sounds so wonderful. I feel
like it's true, like when you because I mean a
lot of times when you're young and you're growing up,
like you, you really do find yourself using your imagination
on your own in your room, with your alone time.
You find that. That's when you know. When you have
your own kids, you you watch them have those moments

(14:50):
I think are really important. But to have someone to
be able to do that with all the time, Yeah,
were you inseparable, like actually inseparable or did you have
your own ideas and your own desires to be without
each other? And do you and be independent because there's
a codependency that can exist that can maybe be unhealthy. Yeah,

(15:10):
we're codependent, I don't think, do you? Or was I
codependent on you? And you were not me? I think
so were code of but we liked different. I mean
we had fun during all the same stuff, but we,
like Jenna was A. It's not surprising to me that
Jena is on the Today Show. She was a performer
since she was little. She she like loved to sing,

(15:32):
she wanted to be an actress. She was constantly performing
and I feel like I was her audience in a
healthy way. And we liked different things, which was really
sweet of my parents to indulge us having at the
same age having different interests. Therefore we could be like,
I don't think our identity was ever confusing to us
the way that I think it can be with some twetes. Also,

(15:55):
we look you know, we I don't know. I feel
like there's a big difference between identical in fraternal, and
we look so different that nobody, you know, the only
thing they would say is like and even now, like
people will be like, oh, the Bush twins. And for
some reason, barber and I find that like slightly like
it gives us like we're like, oh, can you just

(16:16):
call us our names? You know, Yeah, we're forty and
Barbarbera gets mad when I say we're in our forties
because she's like, no, we're just forty. You know what's weird.
I know this sounds crazy. I didn't even know you
guys were twins? Is that and I'm so not Yeah,
I thought you guys were like I thought you guys

(16:36):
were more like Irish twins. I thought one was a
little bit older and not all the like we get
it one way or the other. But a lot of
people are like, you have a twin, you know, like
people have forgotten, which is also great, but the one
that's interesting. And I don't know if your twin experts
said this, but about being a twin exa. For whatever reason,
people feel like even now that we're the inverse of

(16:57):
each other. So Barbara came and like hosted it, actually
your Kate, your friends who are so Sarah, Sarah and Aaron, Yeah,
yeah they were on. But that day that she was hosting, Davy,
who works with me, who I love, was like, oh,
you're a little choieter than her. Huh, you're the quiet

(17:18):
one to Barbara, and I mean even now, like we're
grown humans. And Barbara, when you said, Barbara, and you
can tell them, but it said, I'm not the quiet one.
It's just hard to get a word. And sometimes around
the idea that one would have to be the quiet

(17:38):
one and one would have to be the law or
you know whatever, right that you're never defined as individuals,
You're always defined as well as one, yeah, and then
therefore the other one like right, and oh Barbara very well,
you know there's some wildness in there. You know who
got into the most trouble like Jenna for sure? Dannah,

(17:59):
Yeah did it? It was because right there was in
high school. Barbara was definitely like from eighth grade to
even to senior year, Barbara was by far wide older
than I was. I was just more subtle about it, right,
She was more slick. You were more or Jenna was

(18:20):
more overt, just like fuck it, look at me, I'll
do this. Barbara was like wait a minute. In places
she knew she wouldn't get caught exactly. Although we didn't
get in trouble with the law publicly, which wasn't oh
my god, I'm right a cover of People magazine and said,
which was like this shows you the time, the time

(18:43):
and oops, they did it again? Did you get two?
In my piece as well, because they said, oops they
did it again? I don't know. I know I got
one with you when we ordered the margaritas together. That
was stupid. Yeah, that was what did you get busted for?
Ordering Margarita's. Yeah, well we walked into our restaurant. There

(19:03):
were both of us together, So yeah, I guess the
point is we were naives and our dad was like,
don't worry, y'all can have a be normal college kids,
like he basically told us. And now that I'm a parent,
I totally get it. It's like he wanted to subside
our fear, and our fear was that we couldn't be normal,

(19:24):
that we couldn't like we went to a big public
high school, we had a really normal childhood, and I
actually think he believed it. I think he thought, don't worry, like,
y'all can go and do everything that and you know,
we weren't. We weren't doing terrible things. We were doing
we were nineteen or twenty yeah or very knowledge. Yeah. Well,

(19:44):
you so happened to have a father who was the
president of but not only that, but even goes back
further with your grandfather even being vice president then president.
I mean, was there ever that talk where it's like, look, girls,
there is something here that we need to be careful of,
or was it just like no, hey, you're you're normal humans.
Go do your thing and we'll deal with whatever fall
out comes it was, which was so great. I mean,

(20:07):
it's lucky there was no pressure on us to be
some way that. I mean, who knows how you're supposed
to act if your dad is the president, But there
was no pressure for us to act in whatever way
that was. But I do think, I mean, when we
were growing up, our grandparents, our grandfather was so humble
that I thought everyone's grandfather was president. I didn't know

(20:28):
that that was like this special thing for him. I thought, Look,
when we went to as anauguration in first grade, I
thought I was about to go to all my friend's
grandfather's inauguration, and I was bad to realize that. I
went back to school after as an inauguration and I
asked my friend when her grandfather's inauguration was. She told

(20:48):
me he wasn't having one, and I went, I was
so sad. I went home and journaled about it, and oh,
but it like really speaks to how they acted, and
that our grand parents, or a grandfather in particular, didn't
act like elusive in any way, or that his job
was any more special than anyone else's job. And so

(21:09):
I think there's something beautiful about how night we were
around that. But it also then, of course, meant that
we did make public mistakes. Yeah, yeah, but thank god,
you know, because I'm so happy that our parents allowed
us that space to fail. I think when now and
I'm like kind of with teenagers on the show, or

(21:32):
when I'm with when we talk with psychologists, I think
one of the reasons why, kid, why the levels of
anxiety and depression are so horribly high, is that that
kids feel light. If they make one mistake, their lives
will be over. Yeah, and I feel I have to
give our kids grace, like, you know, it's okay to fail,

(21:53):
It's okay to make a mistake. And even though in
the time it felt horrible and we were embarrassed, our
parents ever shamed us, like they want thanks a lot,
you know now where now people are talking, they like
my dad actually apologized to me when I called and
I was like crying and I was like, Dad, I
got in trouble, you know whatever. He was like, oh,

(22:15):
like I told you could be normal, and like, obviously
you can't. I mean the second time we did it,
he was a little bit more, Dude, just don't go
to a r for one more year and then you're
free auvers. You're ready to tap these Rockies and let's

(22:40):
tap it out. Tap. I've tapped a lot of things
in my life. My favorite thing to tap is the Rockies.
Are the Rockies. Yeah, it's the sexiest beer in town.
But let's just say it that there's literally only one
beer that is literally made to chill. Literally because the

(23:01):
mountains on the bottle and the cans they turn blue
and your beer is cold. So it's literally literally made
to chill. And we're coming into the summer months, that's right,
I can't. I was actually talking about going to get
to Colorado for this summer. I want to go back
and do our bring it, bring it, a good six
pack of cores light and our hik Yeah, I want

(23:25):
to go do that again. You know what I do
is I like to float. I like to fly fish.
Actually the whole family does. And you can drag those
silver bullets behind the boat so they're getting cold as
you're fishing, and then you pull over, bloom, crack one
catch a nice trout. I mean, come on, it doesn't
get better. Now I'm upset that I'm not actually doing

(23:46):
that in there right now. It's the perfect companion for
all things chill. It's cold filtered, it's cold loggered, it's
cold packaged. It's just cold. So when you choose to chill,
we'll pair your plans with a nice cold course light.
Get course light delivered straight to your door with Drizzly
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(24:08):
send Celebrate responsibily Course Brown Company Cold in Colorado. Part
of what I love what you're saying is that even
with these I mean seriously powerful political figures in your
family from a very early age, somehow your father and

(24:30):
your mother were able to make you feel like you
could go have a real fun yeah, teenage existence. Yeah.
And what about your mom and all of this, you know,
because you talk about your dad, of course, but how
your mom, her significance in your upbringing and letting you
sort of be you? Well, our mom is pre naturally calm.

(24:52):
She's I mean, she was a librarian. She's very zen
like shockingly, it's it's wild. You know, I don't know
anybody as zin and calm as she is, and she
so therefore it's like she just didn't get riled up
by anything like we tried too to really like because
two on one can super and tense, you know, and

(25:14):
she's an only child, so I think we tried to
rile her, but she stayed very calm and not like
such a gift. Because her piece of advice always like
when we would come with like teenage shit, you know,
can you say that on a podcast? And we would
come with is like things that hurt our feelings when

(25:35):
we were fifteen years old as a girl. She would
be like, listen, I know that hurts, but I probably
that's not big enough to worry about, like say it
for the things that are going to really hurt. And
it's true, because we have things in our lives that
are monumental that hurt us that even in high school
we did, you know, but the little kind of petty thing.

(25:56):
She would listen to us, but she would just reassure
us that like they didn't deserve all of our attention,
and that was really really helpful. I mean, I know,
well also mom, I mean, our mom is shockingly come.
But she also really wanted us to figure out who
we were. There was no prescriptive path for us. And

(26:18):
I know some parents like pressure their kids to figure
to follow some path, but our mom was the opposite.
Of that. She wanted us just to pursue what we
were interested in. And I mean we traveled with our
parents around the world, around the country, around the world.
I went to five continents with my parents, and they
just wanted to expose us to as many different people
and as many different ways of being so that hopefully

(26:41):
we would figure out how we wanted to be. And
I think that's a huge gift that my mom in
particular wanted us to explore and figure out what got
us excited, even if it didn't, you know, if it
wasn't exciting to her to others. And that was really lucky.
Oh you lot, we were able to be super open
with your parents, tell them everything or you know. I mean, yes,

(27:04):
we did not tell them every single thing, but we
definitely could. I mean, don't you feel like Barbara, Yeah,
I'm I like personality wise and very private. So I
did not tell my parents everything, but I could have.
And now at this stage I tell my parents everything
because why not. But when I was younger, I was
like it would have been totally allowed and accepted in

(27:26):
every way. Are you still you guys, still holding a
secret now that your parents don't know that you did
when you were kids where or something kind of bad.
We're like, oh shit, they still don't know about this,
and we're forty probably probably, you know, it's one thing
to like have a parent that people look at like, oh,

(27:46):
I want to be just like you, or your movies
made me feel happy, or you know, you know, the
tap dancing parent is very different than like people who
were actually in charge charge of our future. You know,
like the pressure of that is it's so interesting that

(28:09):
they really protected you. It feels like from the how
unbelievably powerful their positions, both Grandpa and dad, you know,
because you know your dad was, you know, as most
presidents are, by polarizing and in a very intense time
like being in college. Well, let's let's go to your

(28:32):
grandpa first. Like when did you guys first have that
experience of like, oh, someone's like upset with my parent,
or someone's like pushing back and I don't really understand
what's going on, you know, when for with, I'll tell
our grandfather and Barbara you can probably talk more to Dad.

(28:52):
And I was at a grocery store and there was
a like in newsweek or as Time ninetazine. I'm pretty
sure it was Newsweek though, that had him on the
cover and it said the wimp Factor. They called him
a whimp, which was like such a nineties or late
eighties word, you know, like we used whimp on the

(29:14):
play card. Yeah, I call I still call Alio wimple
all the time. Remember that was such a word of
our childhood. Do you know what I mean? Wimpy? Yeah?
Oh disconcerting to see somebody who I loved so much
who also like, like the way that he led was

(29:36):
was ggital, Yeah, was much more metal. I mean, he
was a very different leader than we've seen in the
last couple you know, or the last decade. He was.
He led with love, He listened. He was raised to
be so humble that like, actually he would get in
trouble as a little boy if he bragged about like
his baseball team or something. So we didn't know any

(29:59):
end of the stuff that he had done. You know.
He never talked about himself. He always asked questions. He
always gave credit to everybody that helped him, like he
would never he didn't need to be like the mancho spotlight.
I'm the king type of guy, and so like to
us that felt beautiful and just who he was, you know,

(30:20):
and and so I remember, like I really confused, and
it was like right around when I learned how to read,
so I could first or second, but I could read it,
and I could see it, and I asked my mom,
and you know, it just it felt like such a
different way than I would have described him. But I

(30:41):
mean that's how he was thought of as a leader.
It's like not strong enough, not tough enough, not bragging
about himself enough. And did you feel a sense of,
like I mean, especially being the aggressive lover in the family,
where you like, did you feel like this desire to
protect Grandpa? Yah? I mean I just felt, yeah, I did,

(31:01):
like I was sort of wanted to like move all
the magazines and put something else on top, you know,
like it just so didn't match the words, so didn't
match what we thought of him, like he was our hero.
We admired him so much. So that was that was
like sort of the first and kind of only time
when we were little. Do you remember how your parents

(31:24):
or did you talk to your mom or dad about
that feeling? Do you remember that? Yeah? I mean I
definitely did. I don't remember what they're I think they
sort of just let us talk it out because I
think they also knew, like that's you know, freedom of speech,
like that's what comes with the territory, and so it's
like what could they say, you know, like it is

(31:46):
what it is. But I think they let me talk
about like what that feeling felt like and how like
hurtful it was to me as a little kid to
see that mm hmm, even though it's again it's part
of the job. Like your grandfather and your father probably
don't get stung by a lot, you know, No, they don't.

(32:07):
Definitely didn't his feelings, you know. I mean, I think
he you know, was like, wow, they believe in the
freedom of journalistic check. I mean, that's twenty of free
speech at the time. Was your dad governor No, not
d governor later governor when we were in the middle

(32:29):
of seventh grade another oh my gosh, you guys were,
oh my gosh. And you were like campaigning with your
parents during these times too, probably like oh no, and
not we almost never. I mean, we chose to campaign
with our dad when he ran the second time for

(32:49):
president when we were twenty two. But besides that, our
parents were not into having us. They didn't want us
to do anything that made us feel uncomfortable. I won't
put us in the spotlight it any way, which is
so lucky, Like we didn't have to do any of
the sort of cheesy campaign ads that you see with
the family. We just involved in whatever we were doing

(33:11):
when we were I mean, thirteen isn't a great time
for a transition, but we were just doing our thing,
and there was then they were very respectful of that.
But also for some reason that the difference between I
mean not for some reason, but the difference between and
I don't know if it's still this way, but then
the difference between governor and president was dressed for it.

(33:33):
Or my dad was governor from down to Austin high school,
we had like a totally totally normal high school experience
and nobody erd, you know, I think Austin was so
laid back at the time that it was we got
no attention, no one cared. That's great. What our dad
did was the most normal, like movie high school experience.

(33:57):
But that that changed in college. I would assume when
dad's pressed sit in the United States, and then how
do you deal with that shit? I mean, god, wait,
I want to go back to your first time Barbara,
where you discovered, like, oh my god, people are talking
shit about my family. You know, it's a terrible feeling
because we've experienced it differently, but very different I think politically,

(34:21):
I think so, I mean, I was out of it
as a kid. We I mean, I really is like
the credit to our grandparents. When we were with them,
they were one hundred percent there that we They were
so present with us that I had no idea the
role that my grandfather was in. But when I went
to college, it was different. I went I chose to

(34:41):
go to a school where I didn't know anyone. I
went to Yale, which is like a highly political campus.
I was probably the only person that voted for my
dad on the entire campus. And it was during the recount,
the two thousand recount was by freshman year, and there
were like protests going on for the recount, and I

(35:05):
did not. I mean, our dad knew what he was
getting into. And you referenced this before. He had such
a thick skin, like he knows that part of the
job is people criticizing you. That's what comes with the territory,
and you rise above that. And so in many ways,
I was surprised by my experience, But I had the

(35:25):
best roommates. I mean, luckily, I made friends who protected me,
and they would I found out later, they would like
walk with me to a party and we would walk
around the protest. They would take me in a different direction,
so I didn't even know they were going on, just
because it felt so personal to me. Even though no
one there was protesting who they thought was my dad.

(35:46):
They were protesting this guy that they disagreed with. But
for me, it took a really long time to disengage
from how this guy that I love so much, that
has shown up in every way in our life, been
there for me and all the sad things and all
the happy things. It was so hard for me to
disengage from them attacking this person that I loved so

(36:10):
deeply and who I saw so differently. And part of that,
I'm sure is a similar experience to y'all, and that
in public life, people will only know these certain aspects
of your parents. And the beauty is you get to
know all these different you know, I know all these
different facets of my dad, then no one will ever
know unless they're related to him. That's kind of the

(36:32):
beauty of it. But it's also the hard part of it,
and that you want to tell other people that their
interpretation it's different. But I mean, I didn't watch the
news ever. Yeah. It's also people, you know, they just
latch onto any kind of salacious, negative story as we know,
you know, so like people, the passion, the passion and
the Yeah, did it ever feel scary for you being

(36:55):
on campus during that time where it's like, oh, it's
the bush kid? But really, I mean I think what
was like, what I really realized is that then I
made friends with everyone. I mean I really, like I
joke what I say, I'm the only person that voted
for my dad on campus, but I probably am the
only person put it with my dad on campus. And
I was friends with everyone, And I think then you

(37:18):
people realize, like, wait, I'm actually talking bad about this
person's dad. I'm not going to do that around them
because you know, I would never talk bad about someone
else's dad. Yeah, and so it it. But at the beginning,
that was my freshman year, and I was in shock,
like I never thought of myself as the president's daughter

(37:39):
because I'd never been the president's daughter, and all of
a sudden identity wise, that's how other people see me.
So it was sort of a complicating experience to figure
out when you're already trying to figure out what your
identity is when you're eighteen eighty and Jenna, where were you?
I went to Texas, so I stayed in Austin, where
we grew, where we went to middle school in high school.

(38:01):
And I sort of chose this safer route because I
knew a lot of people. I kind of like had
an instant day one group of people that left me,
you know, I was like, I'm just going to jump
right into the fire. Yes, yes, wow, I would. I
would think growing up in such a like I mean,

(38:21):
the lineage, the political lineage of your family, what is
it like, where do you guys sit politically? Yeah, it's
so funny because I feel like when people are like,
you know, when there's like a family of doctors or
I guess, like a family of actors. You know, people
just assume like two things one that we're going to
like it used to for sure. I mean, I think

(38:43):
we've sort of defined ourselves a little bit by this point.
But the first question was like, are y'all going into politics? Yeah, Like,
I'm sure we'll ask if your kids are going into,
Like I'm sure I've asked that question to somebody now
I regret it. It just assumes that that's they will follow,
like the family business one and in two. It's like,

(39:05):
even recently, people will say things to me like they
think they know how we vote or how we make
and I'm like, so interesting to me that they think
because our parents and not even both of our parents,
like you said, our mom has had differing views from
our dad and have been vocal. Our grandmother in the

(39:26):
nineties was pro choice and fact when like, you know,
her husband was the Republican president and she came out
and said it while he was president. Wow. And so
I and you know, my mom came from her parents
were like yellow down Democrats down in Texas. So the
point is like we come from a family where everybody's

(39:50):
allowed to believe whatever they wanted. And in fact, our parents,
I like just interviewed my dad for something and I
was like, yeah, y'all probably think our dad was like
you need to vote this way and believe this way,
and you can't do this. And I was like, but
he wanted us to be you know, curious and independent,
and and I was like and now that I'm a parent,

(40:11):
I know, like what a pain in the asset is.
He was like, yeah, yo, we're a pain in the ass,
you know, Evaner. We would Barbara and I would like
read about the death penalty and sit him down and
be like, dad, this is ridiculous. Like and like he
would come home from debating something to like two little thirteen. Well,

(40:32):
I was gonna I was gonna ask you that, like
when he was president and you were in college. Now
you're you're you're sort of becoming you know, these women
and vocal and and do you were like, Dad, what
the fuck are you doing? Like what is this law?
What is this policy? Like I mean, would you ever
talk to him about that? And like I don't get this.
I don't like it. I don't know what the hell

(40:52):
you're doing right now. Yes, that's so great. That's amazing.
I also love it. Your dad's just surrounded by girls,
Like that's just it's like, you know, outspoken girls and
he and and by the way, like he he listens.
It's not I mean, because I think what we want,

(41:13):
I mean, I want this for my kids too, is
to feel like they can be themselves and have their
own opinions and their own beliefs and like, and I
feel like that seems like that's how your parents are too.
It's like you're you don't have to just take on
our ideology. You know. There's a really sweet picture of
your grandpa my mom dancing. Oh yeah, my mom was
that somewhere. I think my mom has it framed in

(41:35):
the hall somewhere. Yes, I think this is when she
didn't she spill her drink on her lap. She spilled
her drink and then they dance, like she said. He
was just at the White House or where was it.
It was some sort of a dinner. Yeah, she's just
picture was an old like in the nineties. But they
had the best time. You know, it's so funny. It

(41:56):
was just thinking because as a parent, like you know,
you want to do anything to please your kids, you know,
like if they have a problem, you want to try
to fix it in some way, even when they probably
are older. And so if you have sort of your
if if your dad's the president of the free world,
and you have real feelings about something, it's almost hard
as a parent to be like, well, sorry, like this

(42:18):
is the way I want to do it, even though
I know you girls are so passionate about this, you know,
because you have the power to affect policy at that point. Yeah,
because you're playing to your dad's love and heart strengths.
And yeah yeah, although we weren't like and you know
again like we were so I mean, college is just

(42:40):
such a selfish time because you're like innately for everybody.
You're trying to figure out what you study, who you
want to be, what friends you want around you, like whatever,
And so it was, you know, and you know everything
and you don't want to talk to your parents about
it because they don't know anything. Yes, like we just
sort of I mean there were definitely only times I

(43:01):
think where we both would call and be like dad,
you know, think about way. But but not like in
our day to day do you know what I mean?
We weren't like working advisors to the president, of course not.
I mean the thing is right when he got off,
as nine to eleven happens too, which is just That's
what I was going to say, is nine to eleven
happened so early in his presidency that I think when

(43:21):
we were around him, we just wanted to be funny
and make him laugh and entertain him and try to
provide some levity so that he wasn't thinking. You know,
we didn't know what he was on his mind when
we were with him, and he obviously never would bring
it up because he didn't want to put any weight
on us in that way. But I think we tried
harder to like entertain him whenever we were around him

(43:43):
rather than bring up anything difficult. I wonder too, I mean,
think about it, it's like keepin like, you know, your uncle,
like everybody in your family is like very kind of
politically focused. I mean most that does ever do you
ever have moments where you're just like like angry at

(44:06):
them for any kind of like ideas or ideology or
you know, I mean like all families and particularly over
you know, in the last decade, you know, there's some
families that can't sit across from each other, and because
politics have become so divisive and alarizing, and so, you know,

(44:28):
in the time when everybody was having those conversations, which
I guess is still now, but particularly in that sort
of arab which I know you're you know what I'm
referring to, Like we were like all families and conversations
where everybody would have different points of views, yeah, but

(44:49):
mostly all sort of so, you know, and I think,
but I think that's sort of what And somebody said
us to me once. They were like, so you're a
parent and your grandparents put humanity above political party And
I was like flabberg asked it, like I was like, yes,
like are we supposed to be? Yeah, I don't know

(45:12):
if that makes sense, but like they haven't always voted
for the Republican Canada because they again, like they're open
and they ex send that you know, that's public knowledge,
but they're open and they it's like a case by case,
you know. And I think there's like nuance and our
families conversation, which is like what's missing so much? Oh god,

(45:32):
it's gone. It's going away rapidly. If it's if not
already gone, now there is there is no. It's not
about ideology, it's not about what you believe in, what's
in your heart. It's just about power and sort of
staying in power and staying in power at all costs.
And it's just so crazy. What does this say about
public service? What kid wants to be president now? And

(45:55):
what kid wants to be Like, I want to be
president of the United States, it's like, no fucking way,
Look look at this, like, look at the mess who
wants to get into politics? And now people always, I
mean obviously our whole life, people have always said to us,
as they probably have to any member of our family,
are you going to go into politics? And we used
to be so aggressively. We would respond so aggressively, like

(46:18):
on the account of three we'd say no, like as
loud as we could, basically, And now I would still
say no. But it breaks my heart because I actually,
you know, it's really sad if people don't want to
go into political office or don't want to go into service.
You know, that's such a disheartening time. But it's so

(46:39):
impossible to be in that world right now. Yeah, there's
no respect, there's no sense of you know, camaraderie or
you know, solution oriented. People stopped listening for some reason.
They're they're all playing up to be like the loud
person in the room. And yeah, I don't know, real quick.
Getting back to you guys though for a second, because
you were so in separable high school, growing up everything,

(47:02):
and then boom, now you're off to different colleges. I mean,
was that a break tough for you guys, was it difficult? Well,
when we were little, and this is like another benefit
to our parents, they sent us to different camps, different
summer camps, oh wow, which was so smart since we
were seven, so we had to navigate by ourselves and

(47:23):
you know, be on our own and make friends by yourself,
which was really smart. I feel like it wasn't hard
to separate for college. It was almost like we got
double the college experience. Like we got like I'd go
stay with Jenna all the time. She would come visit
me all the time, and I was friends with her
friends and she was friends with my friends at Yell
and still now, so it was kind of it was

(47:46):
only additive when we separated, like we got to then
live through each other. Also, did you ever get to
spend any time in the White House? Yes? Yes, okay,
so you would like sleep sleep there? You did you
have rooms? Yeah? Rooms? And our mom was really smart
she put two queen beds in each of our rooms

(48:07):
so that we would come and bring a ton of friends. Right.
Did you ever bring your boyfriends there? Yeah? Yeah? Okay,
So did you make love in the White House? My god, Oliver, Yes,
come on, you's been ter make up. Well, I'm trying
to be sensitive here, you know, somewhat respectful. Right, we're

(48:31):
talking about the White House. You got to make love
and listen, remember if I'm I'm sure we did. But
that's probably comment. That's so funny. Could you imagine that
like that, like just going to your friend's house like

(48:54):
in college, being like, hey, why don't you come, Like
we're gonna like visit our parents. Just go and hang
out at the White House. By the way, That's how
we would have talked about it too, like yeah, oh,
we're going home to see our mom and dad. I
mean that's how we That really is how we thought
of it. But it was it was a fun place
for some parties. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean I would
also think what about what about is it haunted? Yeah?

(49:19):
It is? It is? Wow, definitely. What do you mean
how do you know we heard a ghost? No, but
you didn't believe me the first time the first my
phone rang because this was like again, we were how
old like phone We're twenty and we had a Nokia
phone that rang. You know, we'd like boyfriends or friends

(49:39):
that would call at like three in the morning, you know. Now,
that's like when my alarm clock goes off. But anyway,
we like somebody all all the night. And we were
staying with our parents for the summer. I was working
at a charter school. Where were you doing, Sissy something,
no idea, but we were both there, Yeah, we were
both there. The phone rang. I answered it like, I
was like, I'm asleep, like i'll call you tomorrow. Hung

(50:00):
up and I was still awake, and I heard opera
and I'm not not like somebody could be listening. It's
the middle of the night. We both had fireplaces in
our room that we never used, but they were there,
and all of a sudden, like I felt like it
wasn't just like hearing I felt like a gush of
wind and like somebody singing opera loud, like as if

(50:24):
they were fucking fireplace. Sorry for the bad words. So
I ran in and I jumped and Barber's room was
right next to my. I ran in, I like jumped
in her bed. It was like so scared and she
was like, no, no, it's not that. And then Barbara
two nights later, two nights later, I was we were
sleeping in the same room. I was in Jenna's room,
we had both fallen asleep, and all of a sudden

(50:46):
we hear like nineteen twenties piano music, Yes, coming from
the fireplace, but as if someone was there playing the pop.
Chelsea had the same thing. I have to ask Chell,
is I wonder that she had any of those experiences.
I don't know. She was there more than we were,
so she might out. But we we But then the

(51:07):
next morning, I like, we talk ourselves out of it.
There's a there is a piano outside the outside our room.
So we're like, possibly it's like the cat that was
playing like twenty marritime walk out the Cats like that,
Oh wait a minute, something's really weird. We and then

(51:33):
I went outside. First, who we loved named Buddy who
just retired act was there and I was like, Buddy,
you're not gonna it was closed. Yeah, the piano was closed.
I mean we just said that to ourselves. Were sleeping purposes,
go back to sleep. And I was like, Buddy, gosh,
like you won't believe what we heard. And he was like, oh, Jenna,

(51:54):
like that's like you wouldn't even bath them. Then as
saying the sweet scene around here, that's oh. But those
were our two experiences, But of course, I mean it's
the I mean, think about how many different people have
been in the White House, you know, throughout the years,
and like fraught each of the time. It's like, but

(52:16):
they were friendly because music. That's just the one time,
or did it happened more? It happened twice, just twice,
just twice the other things that other people like. Remember
Reagan had that story of like a foot prince and
then she found out that a baby had died, and
the baby had died in the White House. Yeah, and

(52:38):
saw baby footprints in her room. Yeah, there's probably so
much secretive stuff that goes down in that place. I mean,
baby footprints is that's even weirder because my baby's walking.
There are more and also they're well like a one
year old baby was like baby footprints is like really creepy,

(52:59):
like a walking baby. It's just nuts. Oh my god.
You guys have done a lot of writing. It's kind
of manifested its way into these children's books, and so
wanted I want to make sure we touch on this
a little bit. So when did you guys decide? Well,
first of all, your first book was really really about
you guys together wasn't it with the bestseller New York Times.

(53:21):
How was that experience for you? It was. We decided
to do it on the day after the twenty election,
and we had a meeting Bugked and we went with
like to talk about actually the children's book. That's where
we were going to start, which is easier, I said,

(53:42):
I don't take so long to write. Then we both
felt like so much night. I had spent the night
before with Jenna to watch the election results come in
in New York. We lived for blocks from each other,
and I went over there and the night got later
and later, so I just spent the night with her
and her bed and my husband. Yeah, her husband was

(54:03):
out of town. So when we woke up the next morning,
we were going to this meeting about a children's book,
and we were both so surprised by the election results,
like so many people were when they woke up the
day after the election in twenty sixteen. And we had
realized that we'd spent so many election nights together, some

(54:24):
on elections that were more personal, you know, like so much,
you know, involving our family, all of which were important
for the country. And we ended up deciding on the
subway to our book meeting to write instead of a
children's book, to write a book of short essays that
were more sort of a love letter to each other,
to having a sister and a partner in our life,
and also a love letter to our family members, sort

(54:49):
of around the bigger message of what we've been talking
about that like humanity is what matters and not you know,
devotion to your political party, and trying to show these
other sides of people that had chosen service and normalize
that experience. I mean, that's what it ended up being.
I don't think we knew it was going to be
that in the moment, I think, and at first we
were like, we want a love layer to sisterhood because

(55:11):
no matter like what political party you were in the
way women were talked about in the twenty sixteen election
was not okay with us. And at that time I
had two little girls, like a brand new baby girl
who's now six, but like you know, a tiny infant,
and I just was like, this is not the direction

(55:32):
we need for our girls. And so that's that we
decided really like around, oh that's great. So it was
inspired by I love that, okay. So then that and
then that was a best seller, and then you finally
got to now do your children's book, which I got
to read to my daughter yesterday, which I was really
happy about. Its super cute, superpower sisterhood. Yeah, and so
it's all around Like so the first book was really

(55:55):
about blood sisters like Barbara and I are, but this
is all around friend Like I think I know, okay,
from friends, but mutual friends that we haven't that you
have like a group of women that make you feel
powerful and brave, and Barbara and I have that same thing,
not you know, not only in each other, but in
our colleagues. Like I don't know what I would do

(56:16):
without Savannah and Hoodah, they like are my lifeline. They
pick up my kids from the bust when I'm out
of town. Like, it's just about how we want our
girls to support each other and to love each other,
and how each of us have talents that are you know, human,
but together with our group of friends, they can become

(56:37):
like super powerful. Yeah. And I think it's such an
important message because it's okay to remind ourselves that as women,
we are predisposed based on history historically, how women had
to you know, protect themselves, that we are predisposed to
compete with each other that we need to actually change
the way that old part of our brain. Yeah, you know,

(57:00):
can react to other women like that. We actually are
much stronger when we're supporting and connected to each other
than the old ways we've been taught through sort of
you know, the patriarchy and all of that with patriots happier,
you know, triarchy much happier and be rounded by a
group of funny Oh my god, it's just are you

(57:22):
blaming the patriarchy for no, no, no, I'm no, yes,
well I'm surrounded by men. I wish I had I
have three brothers. But also, like what we hope with
this book, and I see this with my daughters. My

(57:44):
daughters and Samannah Guthrie's daughter are best friends, and like
the way they act to each other is how I
want Mela to have friends for the rest of our life,
because Mila, you want and Brene Brown actually like writes
about this, but you want in your life that make
you feel like anything that you have that's innately yours

(58:05):
is powerful and awesome. So like as opposed to like. So,
for example, I said to MELI said, how was bail
in the play and she goes, oh, mom, she was spectacular,
and like, that's who I wanted to be friends. I
don't want like Brene Brown calls them like the candle
blower outers, like the person that would be like, oh

(58:25):
you like math ough, Yeah, you like dance dances were babies,
Like it's they're allowed to do whatever they want. But
if the little candle blower a blower outer comes over
here and ups like that in front of them, I
don't know how I'm gonna respond. You're gonna be like, bye,
you're not hanging out with them? Well, because it's time

(58:47):
for you to go home. Like I always had somebody that,
I mean, there were mean girls and there's that period
of like seventh grade and sixth grade that's just awful
for anybody, you know, But like I innately hadn't and Barbara,
you know, so I look for it now in whoever
I'm going to surround myself with. Barbara, what are you

(59:07):
going to say? I agree with that. I also think like,
I mean, it's a good reminder that you have to
walk the walk too. I mean, you know, thinking of
myself that I have to walk the walk too. And
in that like when you're little, You're always watching what
your parents do. And if your mom walks the I
mean key, I think from what I know about you,

(59:28):
you do this. If your mom walks the walk in
that way, then that's what you think is the norm. Yeah,
and I think that, you know. I mean that goes
back to what we were saying about our grandfather. He
was so humble that we thought everyone acted like that.
Like it's only when you get older that you realize
that's not the case. But it's I mean, it's hurt.
It's so easy to say when you're not in an
emotional moment, but our lives are only additive because of

(59:50):
each other. Like, my success is not diminished because of
your success. Rationally, we know that. And then you have
to hold yourself accountable to being the person you want
to be. I just own my disdain and anger for
people who make more money than me and are more successful.
You just own it. It's like, okay, yeah, you made
two million dollars for that piece of shit, Like God,

(01:00:13):
all right, whatever, you know, I own it. Cool. You're
not in the super Bowers Sisterhood. You got well convert
you yeah, join you joined the sisterhood. Every Halloween. I
do pretty much. You guys ever fight doing the book?
I mean like no, I don't want to say that

(01:00:33):
or this pictureself? Never? Wow? Never do you guys fight? Yeah?
We we haven't fought in a long time. But it
was all about I mean, it was primarily about clothes really, yeah,
the sharing sharing. We had a hard time learning how
to share it okay and how to share it better.

(01:00:53):
I would give anything to have a sister that I
would fight over sharing clothes with. Sometimes when I when
I think about, like whenever we interview sisters or my
friends you have sisters, it's like it's like looking at
like it's like looking at I feel like it's like
an alien relationship to me. Do you know what I mean?
My mom is the closest thing I have to that feeling. Yeah, yeah,

(01:01:19):
I mean we have it's sort of different because we
have cousins that we're acted like brothers. So like I
feel like a sister is harder to replicate than a brother,
no offense. It's fine. In his older age, he's bringing
more of femininity. I'm extremely feminist, you know, I feel

(01:01:41):
always I feel like like my sister's very very emotional.
Is he cries with me. I'm very empathetic major anxiety,
you know, Yes, I mean I mean that doesn't act.
That's not like a gender specific Well, let's do this round, okay, cool?

(01:02:02):
All right? One word to describe each other. Funny, brilliant Okay,
I'm describing for BRep. Obviously I'm bribing you all. Yeah,
brilliant and funny. Okay. Who was the boundary pusher? Uh? Me?
Probably her. I'm gonna assume that Jenny your boss here

(01:02:26):
as well? Who's boss here? Yeah? Yeah? Or like some
holiday I'm not or I guess my kids gave it
to me. I'm like looking around to find out I'm
not the boss. I'm not bossy. I'm the boss. Okay?
Who was? Now? We we actually interviewed another uh this
man who's wonderful, who's researched siblings and sibling dynamics, who said,

(01:02:50):
there's always a favorite and it does change that usually
with a family, there is a favorite child and then
it can move around. Is there a favorite child with
you two? Now? They're me Barbara is now. But when
we were Barbarbara was my mom's favorite, and I was
my dad's. And now it's just pure barbar is it

(01:03:13):
all Barbara All the time. I see it down grandchildren,
I can tell which grandchild is sort of in the
favorite spot, right, Yeah, you know, do your parents admit it?
They're just like, yeah, oh Barbs the famous, Oh for sure,
but probably behind my back. And they admitted it to you. No,

(01:03:35):
definitely not oh wonderful behind my back, right, guys, they
actually said it. First concert, Paul, Yeah, Paul Simon, Graceland tour. Oh,
by the way, good one love Barbara first Bring that's

(01:03:58):
the first album was so good, Broke It's the best.
The first one we went to by ourselves was Pearl
Jam and I was looked up and Barbara and we
were like, yeah, we were probably too young to be
by ourselves. And looked up and Barbara was like a
tiny she still is, but was like a little tiny
tu Men was like Crown Surfee. So what a song

(01:04:26):
do you remember? Was it? Like? Black? Like? What song
was it? Yeah? I probably was Black. We were thirteen.
It was the early nineties. We were old. Jam was
the best. Who's more of a prankster? Probably Manna Jenna
in April Fool's Day is Jenna's best holiday. I love it.

(01:04:47):
She loves I forgot about it this year. I didn't
go all in. I usually like, yeah, we do some
really wonderful, wonderful Okay, who is the better student? Barbara
b who's more artistic? We didn't even get into your
dad's painting. He's good. I think it depends she's more

(01:05:13):
artistic in them. I'm more. I'm more of a writer,
she's more of a painter. God know what about first
celebrity crush? Oh my gosh, Jonathan Brandis from the movie Ladybugs.
I I don't even know r P. It's horrible. Do
you remember Jonathan Brandas? Did he pass away? So my

(01:05:35):
ex girlfriend I did it for three years. The name
is Vanessa Shaw and she was the star of Ladybugs.
Of Lady It was so good. Oh yeah, it's like
a soccer movie. I don't about about it? Was it
a soccer movie? I had so many I can't even

(01:05:56):
pick one. It was like LUs three. Who were your first?
Top My was Corey haym Okay, Joey McIntyre, Ollie McIntyre,
New Kids, New kids on the block. I like Nicole
Eggert that she was like it for me, Charles in Charge.

(01:06:17):
You can tell we're all at the same time. Okay,
who is more organized sissy? Who's more of a minimalist?
Mem I just have three children? Who's more of an asshole? Oliver?
That's actually really interesting. Who's more of an asshole? I

(01:06:40):
got your question, and Barbara's like, Barbara can be an asshole,
but I think Barber's more Monascal. That is not true.
Are remember when you texted me, I'm I'm sure you're

(01:07:01):
more of an asshole. You're just a quiet asshole. That's
so funny. I remember when I texted you don't or
what what did I text? You? Will tell me if
your text of me, you're kind of like deeply inside
a little bit of an asshole about like scratchiness, sure

(01:07:24):
to be scratched. It's so interesting. Who's more of an
asshole with us? You? No way, I'm not an asshole
at all, but you say the most asshole? Yeah, but
is a joke? You a like, I am so not
an asshole, but you're more of an asshole than I am.
But I'm but I'm not like what give me one

(01:07:45):
thing that I've ever seen? You's got to pull everyone
around us. No, I actually think this is what I
think is. I'm not saying you're an asshole, an asshole
than I am. I think because you're funny, I can
get away. You get away with things. Therefore, but deep
down you really are asking no way? Yeah, I think so,

(01:08:07):
I'm too nice to be a no. You think you're
so nice, but really, deep down you think about it.
I care too much about feelings. Get I'm gonna text.
Now you're texting family affair. No, we have our family
affair group text text them ask who are family? Is

(01:08:27):
more of an asshole? No way, it would start too
much of a battle. The funniest part is the word asshole.
That exactly well, you're definitely more of a dickhead. I'll
take I'll take that. Protective you know, ye a good one.

(01:08:52):
Finish it up? Was that the last question? No, the
first time I've ever asked. Okay, one bucket list item.
One thing you haven't done that you really want to do? Well,
I mean, one thing I want to do again because
I haven't been doing it is travel. That's not very exciting,
but I feel like my life has been limited. You

(01:09:14):
just went on the Orient Express from harrors So in
the Friday. Now she's got the bug again. I've got
big time sounds amazing. I would love to. I mean
that's in Meanwhile, it's like I've gone to forward texts. Yeah,

(01:09:35):
job every day and three children. So when Barbara's like
I just would love to like get back out there
in the world, I'm like, we're postcard from Venice. You like, yeah,
you like you like took the kids to Garrison, New York.
She's the asshole for sure. It's got amass. You got
to wake up every day at three in the morning.

(01:09:57):
I love to travel a little like eat it, Barbara. Okay,
so what is your bucket list? Well, I'd like to
learn how to sing. J Loo said that her book,
Well Jlo said this via Hoda, so I'm not you know,
but that her vocal coach can teach anybody how to sing.

(01:10:23):
And as Barbara alluded to, I wanted to be a
Broadway star when I was a small child. So I'd
like to go to Jlo's coach and learn, like not
how to be j Lo, but like how to carry
a tune. You know that's I'm not sure what it's for,
very right, yeah, but do you can achieve this? See,
Kate is a really good singer, so I know she

(01:10:44):
is I've seen the films that she's this. I love
to sing. Oh, okay, I'm gonna wait. Two more things.
Tequila or vodka. Tequila if I'm going out at night
because it's an upper and vodka if I'd like to
go to sleep and wake up at three in the morning. Okay,

(01:11:05):
But like Desert Island, what are you doing? What are
you bring in? Well, I guess I'm gonna need the
energy on itla and the men I drink lemon in
my drinks far freshing. I'd say vodka, but I've i've
my drinking buying the bars. But she slowed it down,

(01:11:31):
slowed the drinking. Damn almost halt. Okay. One other thing,
beach or mountains. Beach, I like a mountain on the beach.
That's a good one. Why either or Barcelona. It's mountainous.

(01:11:54):
Barcelona looks kind of like l a Lusha, kind of
right the hill you can climb, you know, Okay, all
you want to ask the last one two parter, two
part questions. So, if there is one thing that you
could alleviate from your sister to make her life easier,

(01:12:15):
what would that be? And then the flip of that is,
if there was something that you could take from her,
that you could make, You could take for yourself, something
that you admire, that you wish that you had. What
would that be. It's a very very deep question, the
need to I can give my sister more hours in

(01:12:36):
the day. My sister does a lot, she has three kids.
She wakes up at the crack of dawn and is
on TV. So not alleviate, but I wish it could
give you more time. I would love more time, Thank you, sissy.
What I would alleviate because sometimes you have of her
time sleeping? It was my powers little can you see me? Yeah?

(01:12:59):
What I would take away. What I would give take
away from her is the ability not to sleep well,
because sometimes she doesn't sleep well and that messes with her.
I would love that. I love sleep. It's one of
life's great joys. And then what would you take like,
is there something that you wish you had for yourself
that your sister possessed. Oh? I know it doesn't really

(01:13:22):
come into play now in my midlife, but I wish
that I could have taken her SAT score and also
her ability to do math as a child, because she
missed one problem or two problems on her math show.
If I could have taken that little part of her brain.
I'm good at the standardized test. Yeah, I mean have

(01:13:44):
taken one in years, but I was good at them.
I no longer need that, but that would have come
in handy before I will take my sister's ability new
upcoming ability to sing great. That is such bullshit. Come
up with some rty hut. I'm fine, you're about to

(01:14:05):
have it. Well, it's not actually in the works, but okay,
that was a very assholy answer. It's the other thing
that I would take for your energy. I think you
have good energy. I do. Okay, it's great, settled, perfect
you guys, Thank you, so happy to talk and chat.

(01:14:28):
I'm glad you guys came on. Thanks for having us. Yeah.
I hope to see you soon. All right, God, guys,
thank you, thank you, go see you later. Sibling Revelry
is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer
is Alison. President, editor is Josh Wendish. Music by Mark

(01:14:49):
Hudson aka Uncle Mark. If you want to show us
some love, rate the show and leave us a review.
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