August 22, 2024 • 42 mins
Going dry doesn't have to be a drag!
Just ask Hilary Sheinbaum who joins Oliver to talk about the pros of putting a lid on the alcohol.
How her relationships changed when she decided to go dry, and how the pressure from pals to drink was a real buzz kill.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling Railvalry No, no, sibling, Raval. You don't do
that with your mouth, Vely. That's good, Yeah, I yawned,
(00:42):
I Yon, What are you gonna do about it? Nothing?
You know why, because you're just listening to me and
you can't talk back. It's kind of a good thing
about this whole podcast space. I can say what I
want and no one can respond to me or give
me their opinion in any way. It's my opinion, and
all that matters when you're listening to this shit are
(01:04):
my opinions, and if you disagree with my opinions, you
can either turn it off or just disagree with them.
I don't even know what I'm talking about right right now.
Sometimes my brain goes too fast. Sometimes my brain goes
(01:26):
too slow. That is why I'm on lexapro. See what
I just did. I just created Alexa pro jingle. Someone
copyright that because it will get stolen. So we have
(01:46):
a guest in our waiting room right now. Her name
is Hillary Shinbaum. She's a journalist. She's the founder of
going Dry dot Co, the author of the Dry Challenge
and How to Lose Booze for Drive, January, Sober October,
and any other alcohol free month. It's about giving up
(02:09):
alcohol for a month and then potentially, you know, forever.
I guess this. I'm excited to talk to her, but
I'm scared. I'm not scared. I just I feel like
the last shows that I've been doing, this sort of
alcohol thing is always coming up, and now she's here.
(02:30):
You know, is this the universe speaking to me? By
the way, I haven't had a drink in five days. Again,
preface this all. I'm prefacing on this all by saying
I don't have a problem, but I just want to
feel better. I'm forty fucking seven. I'll be forty eight's
on September seventh. I'm going to be fifty years old soon,
(02:50):
So why not in these next two years give it
a hardcore push to fifty, to see what I can do,
to see what I can accomplish with my body, you
know what I mean, like health wise, you know, maybe
an eighty twenty situation. I don't need to go one
hundred percent, Like I still want to have my fun
eighty twenty. It's time to push anyway. I don't want
(03:13):
to keep her waiting. Bring in Hillary, shine Bomb, and
let's get it on. Hey, how are you good? How
you doing good?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
How about you?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm good. I am three days soberly, so I'm feeling good.
And I'm sitting here in Colorado and it's raining, which
is nice. It's nice because it's kind of beautiful, you
know what I mean. Yeah, living in la you know,
(03:45):
you get so much sun, which of course we love.
But then it just makes you appreciate that rain where
you don't feel like you have to go do something.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, it's the pressure of going outside.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It does. When it's sunny and beautiful, you can't sit
inside and watch the Olympics, even though maybe that's what
you want to do. Right, It's like, how am I
wasting this beautiful day?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Which brings me actually into the world that we're going
to talk about soon, you know, which is sort of
this casual sober I just made that up. I'm not
sure that's what the term for it is. But dry January,
dry October, dry months sort of limiting your alcohol intake.
When it is a beautiful day, when I am watching
(04:30):
a sunset, if there is something that is incredible, it's
nearly impossible for me to do that without a cocktail
or some sort of a vice, you know what I mean,
Watching a sunset, being on a boat, doing something incredible
in nature especially, only makes it better when you have
a drink in your hand. Of course, you don't agree.
(04:54):
I'm speaking for myself right and in trying to break
my habits of that, because I wouldn't say I'm an
habitual drinker, but there are habits within my drinking. There's
Pavlovian drinking, and that is one of them, along with,
you know, maybe a cigarette or some sort of advice.
(05:15):
So I'm trying hard now to be able to go
play golf or to sit down and watch the sunset
without having a cocktail. You know. Is this something that
you have studied or addressed along the way.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I've definitely addressed it, and I feel like I've lived it,
and I'm now rallying against it. I'm not too aggressively.
I'm not one hundred percent sober, but I do recognize
what you're saying. I think that you know, in our
culture there is an opportunity for alcohol ninety nine percent
(05:54):
of the time. You know, you go to a sports scheme,
you're expecting to have a beer. You know, you go
to a baby shower and you're expecting there to be
sparkling wine, so you can, you know, cheers, And same
thing with weddings. If there isn't an open bar, people
are so disappointed. And all of the things that you mentioned,
(06:16):
like you know, going outside and watching the sunset or
taking a hike, like those are amazing great things in themselves,
especially if you're active. That's releasing endorphins. And it's just
so interesting like how alcohol has just like permeated every
single activity that we do, and especially living in New
York where people don't drive. I think it's just there
(06:39):
are endless opportunities to you know, have a cocktail, open
a bottle of wine.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
But doesn't have to be that way. M hmm. I think, well, historically,
like before we come into the present, right, let's go backwards.
And I'm again I'm not sure you address these things,
but you probably do. I don't know, but how did
it become that way? Alcohol is definitely romantic just throughout time,
(07:07):
especially when movies started to come out and there's you know,
pictures and you see someone have a Martine or Tom
Collins or you know an old fashioned you see Bogart,
you know, having a whiskey and a cigarette. There was
something really sexy about it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Do you think that has played a large part in this.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, I think pop culture absolutely alludes to it. I
mean think of like all those popular teen movies from
like the nineties, early two thousands and even still, like
everybody wants to be a part of that party and
part of like the fun that were witnessing, right, Like
everything social is happening around a drink, including like you said,
(07:51):
like romance and dating, and it's just become so normalized.
I think the advertising around alcohol is so uniquely smart, right.
It shows all these things that we as humans crave,
like human connection in the romantic sense, in the sense
of friendship, and you know, even going back before like
(08:12):
motion picture and TV. If you think about it, so
many cultures and even religion has wine, and so yeah,
people just grow up with you know, what their parents
are doing and the people around them, and so I
think it's really personal and individual, but from all different
(08:33):
you know, ways of life. We're receiving these messages, whether
we realize it or not. So it's everywhere.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And it's also a social lubricant obviously. So I mean,
if you're going back that thousand years, you know, I'm
sure it had the same effects on people as it
did as it does today, where they're able to sort
of open up a little bit more. It creates more vulnerability,
which everyone wants a little bit more so you're not
(09:00):
holding everything in, you know. I mean, if you were
to take away all the bad things about alcohol, which
a lot, there's obviously a ton, and be able to
sort of look at the good part about it, of
what it actually does for people and opens them up. Now,
of course there's the flip side of that, where it
can make you belligerent and bring out rage and interestingly
(09:22):
enough though, those are all things that probably need to
be worked on from a psychological aspect, you know what
I'm saying. But but yeah, so it's interesting too because
today we already live in an anxios We've always lived,
We were an anxious species, you know what I'm saying,
Like that's primal. We have to have anxiety. It's how
(09:44):
we have survived.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
But now today anxiety is so rampant, you know, with
kids and everything else that people are using essentially not
just enjoying, you know, they're using, and so it's important
sort of watch what you're doing, watch the amount that
you're drinking, and then have those moments, you know. And
(10:07):
that's why I'm excited to talk to you, honestly, because
I actually was listening to a book by Alan Carr.
You know Alan Carr. Okay, he has something similar. I
forget the exact title, but he has one to quit drinking.
First of all, his quit smoking one was famous, but
he had one to quit drinking in another one to
like sort of cut down on drinking. And that's something
(10:28):
that I was curious about doing, and it was much
harder than I thought. So if you can, yeah, I know,
I guess. So, if you can just get into sort
of how you how this happened, why you decided to
sort of focus in on that, I'm sure it was
from personal experience, and then how you found the best
(10:49):
ways to sort of at least start the journey and
to semi sobriety. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, it's actually a funny story. It all kind of
happened by accident, which sounds ridiculous, because it is. But
I'm going to take you back to twenty sixteen in
New York City, when I was working as an entertainment
journalist on the Red Carpet that filled my evenings. I
(11:19):
would go to after parties. I would sometimes grab dinner
with friends in between the Red Carpet and after parties
if I wasn't attending the movie premiere. But during day,
while all my friends had corporate jobs, I was writing
about food and beverage and primarily alcohol. So, you know,
living in New York, having an entertainment job, working in booze,
(11:42):
and dating in New York City, really there were just
alcohol was everywhere all the time, and even if I
wasn't drinking every day, it was not frowned upon if
I was, you know, doing it all on the job.
So fast forward to the end of twenty sixteen. I
grabbed diner with a friend and he brings up this
thing called dry January. He had asked me if I was,
(12:06):
you know, doing any New Year's resolutions, and I said no,
I said, those are silly. Said if I wanted to
change something, I'll do it, you know, tomorrow or a Monday.
I'm not waiting till January first, and yeah, once he
explained dry January, I changed the subject. I thought that
was something I would never do. It did not align
with my life or my job, and just living in
(12:29):
New York and being in you know, my twenties. I
was like, why, Like I don't have a problem, Like
I'm not not signing up for this, but lo and behold.
On New Year's Eve, I was drinking and was, you know,
tipsily texting my friends who weren't at this party and
wishing them a happy New Year. And I decided to
propose this bet to my friend that we would both
(12:53):
try dry January. And mind you, he was going out
more than I was, and so I thought my aunts
were really good. And whoever won our bet essentially would
have dinner paid for by the loser of our bet
anywhere in New York City, which is not check.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I can get very expensive.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Wasn't He's in finance, so I don't think that he
had as much anxiety as I did, Grater, but I
was willing to bet on myself, even in my tipsy state,
And so at midnight our bet began.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And I went an entire thirty one days without drinking alcohol.
He lost after about like two and a half three weeks,
he met a girl at a bar who peered him
into drinking, and that was it. I completed my you know,
my bet. He bought me dinner at a lovely Michelin
(13:50):
star restaurant that unfortunately closed recently, but to this day,
he still won't bet me anything ever again. And I
say that we both won because I ended up dedicating
my first book to him.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And he actually completed a dry January about two years ago, finally,
after like almost eight years of this, so I'm proud
of him. We're still friends and yeah, I just you know,
everything in that month, as cliche as it sounds, it
changed so much for me. It changed my sleep. My
(14:25):
skin was looking better, my mood was so much more elevated.
I was obviously saving money on you know, not spending
it on alcohol or ubers or you know, munchies at
two am, which are never healthy, right, It's always like
fries and ideas. It's never like a kale salad. But
(14:47):
I have just done dry January every year since.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Okay, that's the positives. Yeah, did it affect anything else? Though,
you know, in the negative way? Because the fear is
is I can't be social, I won't have much fun.
I'm not going to stay out and party as much
as I normally did. I'm going to be home by
ten thirty because I'm like, kind of man, this isn't fun,
you know. I mean, my friend going on with friends
to bars and you know the lifestyle that you have
(15:12):
sort of ingrained. And I'm speaking for you, but I'm
also speaking for myself essentially. You know, was it hard
to get past that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
And no. I still went to bars, I still hung
out with the same people. I definitely got a bit
of attitude from those same people who were, you know,
wondering why I was giving up alcohol for a month
if I was just going to drink on February first anyway, right,
that was their big question, like this isn't permanent, you
don't have a problem, like why are you doing this?
(15:44):
And I definitely felt the difference in dating. I think
for the better and for maybe a little bit like unexpectedly.
I wouldn't say for the worse, just different. You know,
people who I thought would be like cool and like
unbothered by my decision making, we're a little bit more
(16:06):
pushy than I anticipated, but you know, I do have
to say that was almost eight years ago. This is
you know, I'm going into my this will be my
ninth dry January coming up this January. And I think
that people have become definitely kinder and more inclusive and accepting,
and even you know, restaurant and bar menus reflect that.
(16:29):
So I think now the conversation isn't you know, do
you have a problem or are you pregnant or is
there a health concern or you know, what's wrong with you.
I think that people are a little bit more kind,
and you know, they understand that you might be taking
a night off, you might be taking a lifetime off, and.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Like that's okay, m But yeah, to.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Answer your question, definitely some good things and you know,
some shocking, not so friendly things.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But yeah, and was it hard to begin with? Like
fuck man, everyone's having like a cocktail, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, but like also no, like I think that I
was really motivated by the fact that I did not
want to lose this bet. And I this was also
like one of my closest friends. So if we weren't
together in the same room, you know, I did have
at least sometimes you know, people who were there who
(17:28):
were like, yeah, you have to beat him, like you
can't like let us down, you know what I mean.
I don't know. I think I just started feeling better
like ten days in, and I feel like that also
motivated me to.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Like keep going.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yes, but I also knew that again, like this was
not for me as somebody who's not in recovery. This
was not a lifetime pledge. So for me like thinking like, okay,
I can do this for thirty one days, Like I
can't do anything for thirty one days.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, So after that jam, after that first January, were
you motivated to keep going? I was like, February's here,
Like let's go.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
For the first couple of years, Like February first, I went,
you know, headfirst into a cocktail, right, and it was
not the best decision. I don't know why I had
to make that mistake several times, but like I remember
that first year, I had like the worst red wine
hangover of my life and I had maybe two glasses.
(18:38):
And that really speaks to you.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Know clean you were.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean, my tours was so low, but I was
just yeah, I was in a lot of pain. I
think towards maybe like year four, I extended it, you know,
into February. I've gone as long as you know, six
months without alcohol, and now I do a number of
other dry months, Like I always do a sober October
now and sometimes I'll do like sober September. It just
(19:07):
kind of depends. Like I'm I'm also a really big
advocate of trying on alcoholic beverages, and so when people
ask me for advice, I want to be able to
tell them like, this is comparable. So I'm not against
you know, like sipping a cocktail or a glass of
wine in order to for the educational purposes of it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
All Right, Well, the my whole mocktail world is kind
of blowing up, blowing out. Yeah. I mean my daughter,
you know, always like I'm getting in a mocktail, and
you know she loves them. Yeah. But do you attribute
that to people just trying to cut back on drinking
and wanting to have the experience of having a drink
(19:48):
that looks like a cocktail that doesn't have alcohol for
social purposes?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I guess I think for for a ton of reasons.
I think that for one, people want to have something
that's sophisticated. They want to sip on it. They're not
looking to chug like a glass of water at a bar, right, Yeah.
And I also think that like I kind of like
chalk it up to the same or equal experience of
(20:15):
like having a tasting menu with like wines. Right, you
want to still enjoy like food pairings and that social
experience and you know, sharing a drink with friends and
not being like on the completely opposite side of the spectrum,
which like there's nothing wrong with diet Cooke. I will
(20:36):
drink ten a day to take it, but you know,
like sometimes you just you want to feel like you're
having an adult drink just without booze.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, and what have you?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Okay, how many books have you written?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So I've written three, two are in the sober Curious.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Space, okay, and then you got a one coming out
in September, right, right, So that's the third, Okay, And
what's the third?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So it's called Going Dry. It is a work book
with like seventy plus activities and journaling prompts and you know,
ways for the reader to record how they're feeling and
really evaluate their relationship with alcohol and you know, drinking less.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Does it help you get through a dry month, Well,
is it does? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You know what's funny is I think that it's easy
to remember like the sum of your month, right, Like
I can sit here and tell you like I had
you know, clearer skin and I felt better. And some
people know that they lose, you know, a certain amount
of weight over time. I don't, as I replace my
booze with ice cream. But I think that it is
(21:45):
so important to like draw down exactly how you're feeling
and report like how many hours of sleep? You know,
do what I have? I were, you know, a whoop
and that sleep because I'm lazy. But I think it's
just so telling. Is now, even when I'll have a drink,
I'll see how that affects me and you know, even
(22:06):
my mood. Like sometimes it'll be a beautiful day, I'll
have like the best weekend, and I'm like, why do
I feel so down? And then I have to remember, like, oh,
I had a glass of wine the other night and
it's probably still affecting me in some way. So yeah,
I think it's important to you know, really track like
your feelings, like your you know, physically mentally emotional.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Sure, well, it's funny because people drink. There's a million
different reasons why people drink. I mean, no one, no
one drinks for health. Okay, You're drinking to be social,
You're drinking because of pain, You're drinking because you have anxiety.
(22:48):
I mean, there's all different reasons why people drink. The
best way to drink is because you're out with your
friends and you want to have a good time, right right.
But the interesting thing about alcohol, and I'm only speaking
from experience, because you know, I have anxiety and you
know life is crazy, and you can drink and you
can alleviate that for the time being. But the problem
(23:10):
is is that alcohol perpetuates those feelings. It masks them,
but then makes them worse. You know, when you have
a hangover, your anxiety is an exacerbated ten X, you
know what I'm saying, and it's this awful, horrible feeling.
But then you have to drink again to sort of
get back into that place of normality, normalcy, and you're chasing,
(23:34):
You're just chasing, chasing. I've experienced that before. And then
once you come off of it for three, four, even
four or five days, the clarity that you have, you know,
just the life force that you have again is so amazing.
It feels good to feel good, you know, but there's
(23:57):
also a part of you thinking am I missing out
on something when in reality you're fucking not, you know.
And I think taking a month to actually experience feeling
good and feeling what your best self could feel like,
it's probably one of the great things you can do
because you've given yourself an example of your potential. You know,
(24:23):
are there tricks because we're just based on willpower. It's
just like okay, it's dry January, Okay, fuck off alcohol
and you know, here we go. But that's that's that's
hard to do when you have patterns, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, there are a lot of tips that I have
that I think can help sustain that you know, positive attitude,
because I think everyone starts off really strong, hm that
first weekend rolls around and they're like itching the happy
hour or like, you know, it's like, oh what am
I doing now? So I always say it's a great
(25:02):
idea to recruit a friend. You don't have to make
a bet like I did. I certainly think that motivated me.
But I think having a friend who will be there
to you know, listen to the ups and downs, and
you'll be able to cheer lead for them too is
really helpful, and you can vent to them. I know
(25:23):
that my friend and I we had like the funniest
text chain going back and forth for a really long
time being like, oh, it sucks to be with people
who are so drunk right now, but you know that
was also a reason to it was probably time to
go home. So that's that's Number one. It's recruit a friend.
Somebody's going to back you up and cheer you on,
(25:44):
and you'll do the same for them. Number two is
I always say take the lead in making plans. So
even if your Friday night always revolves around going to
a bar, I would just like take the reins your
friend group and say we're going to do this instead,
and find a way that makes you comfortable even if
(26:06):
they are drinking, Like make sure you're going to a
bar with non alcoholic options, or you're I don't know,
maybe you're going bowling so that you have something to
do with your hands, or like, you know, some other
activity that isn't centered around booze. I think that's really important.
The third is trying on alcoholic beverages. There are so
many wine, beer and spirits that are non alcoholic that
(26:28):
are actually good. There are websites like Better Roads is one.
They have a huge selection of all of those things,
and even pre made cocktails. There's even functional cocktails now,
like a brand called Domo that you know will just
like kind of release the same.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Energy as Yeah, I've I've been reading about these where
it's like it's non alcoholic, but it's giving you an
a a you know, a sensation of some kind exactly.
It's not caffeine or anything, but like.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That's given and you're still good to drive, and you're
still good to make decisions, and you know you're not
going to be waking up the next day and being like,
oh my god, what did I do last night? So
that's another tip. And I think above all, I think
it's just so so important to be kind to yourself
throughout the entire process. I always say that even if you're,
(27:22):
you know, doing a dry January and you have a
drink where you have a night of drinking, just start
again the next day. Like you don't have to be perfect.
It's not about punishing yourself. It's really about seeing how
alcohol affects your day to day life, what your relationship
is to it. And you know, just drinking less. I
(27:42):
think less is better, is more? Right?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I think you make a great point be kind to
yourself because not just with this, but anything that you're
trying to do and make a habit of in a
good way, meaning meditation or not drinking or you know,
working out, and you set goals for yourself, and you
(28:07):
set schedules. When you mess up, we tend to fucking
beat ourselves up instead of being hey, you know what, okay,
it's all right whatever. You know, why am I be
kind to yourself here? So the meditation didn't go great,
it's not exactly perfect the way that you wanted to go, Okay, whatever,
So it's dry January, and oh man, I had the
(28:30):
cocktails of my friends. It was an amazing night. We
went to the concert and it was incredible and a
memory I'll never forget. Okay, start over, Be kind yourself.
I think that's an important message for sure. You know, now,
what about weed? What if I want to smoke weed
during my drive January?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I say, first of all, no judgment. However, it's not
like an excuse to dabble in other things. But everybody
has their own rules, right, Like some people are sober.
Some people are sober. Some people they do their own thing.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Your adventure, it's yeah, my month. But we definitely don't
want to lie replace the alcohol with other things potentially.
We're just we're trying to be as clear as possible.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, I know, well I think I draw the line there.
I'm probably going to have to smoke a joint at night.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I appreciate your honesty.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, it's just it's you know, it's just gotta It's
just it's just gotta happen. You know. So when you
were did your drinking ever get bad? I mean, were
you ever drinking like getting hammered and you know, sloppy
and bad bad?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You know, I live in New York. It happens.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I actually recently wrote a piece for The Not about
attending my cousin's bachelorette party and like telling the group
of other individuals on this trip that I needed to
like take a rest on the subway platform and like
lie my head on somebody who's like double that. So
(30:19):
like listen, like I've had my fun, I've had my
whatever it is. I I never had a dependency issue,
and certainly, you know, looking back, I think that every
I shouldn't say everyone, but I think a lot of
people have, you know, moments in their lifetime where they
(30:39):
are like that's a little curious. But no, for the
most part, you know, just living my life as a
twenty something in New York has had its stories.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And how old are you now?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I'm like, how old am I? I'm thirty six?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Okay, yeah, So what's this dry dating that you've talked about?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, that was a fun one. So I'm now engaged.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Thanks. But you know, for for a number of years,
especially during my dry months, I was single, and I
remember that first year and the second year. It was
just a very interesting conversation to have with people, especially
like that first year, I was not planning on doing
(31:37):
a dry month. I you know, made a bet at midnight,
like went home to my apartment that night slash morning
after the ball drops, woke up in my apartment and
I was like, oh my god, there are bottles of
wine everywhere. There is, you know, a bar card with everything,
Like what am I doing? So I think that explaining
(31:58):
to people that I was like dating at the time,
like you know, each year, like I'm just I'm not
going to have go on these like dates where we're drinking.
It was a little bit of an adjustment. But again,
like I think some people were gun ho and like
we're really supportive and also wanted me to win that bet,
(32:20):
and other people just didn't get it. And I think
for me that became a red flag like if this
person isn't supporting something that is beneficial to my health
and you know, just me being a curious person and
seeing how it turns out. Then when I tell you
the other goals and weird things that I think are
cool and that I want to accomplish, like how are
(32:40):
you going to react? And and I think that was
very eye opening to me. You know, if somebody was
pushy about like oh you should be drinking or like
it's one, I was like, you're not my person.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So the idea is is finding someone who who's accepting
of that part of a few? Yeah, I think also
as far as I dating goes, Yeah, given that.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
It's it's thirty one days and I was not imposing
these rules on.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Them, right, they could drink if they want.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I was just like, I'm not drinking, but why is
that bothering you?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well, it's just you know, they're projecting, and that's just
self reflective essentially. You know, if I have a problem,
you're not drinking, it's like what you're telling me that
I have a problem. I mean that's internally subconsciously, I'm
sure that's what they're saying to themselves, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah. Also, like as we were saying, like, drinking means
different things to different people. It means fun, it means bonding,
it means celebration. So when you tell someone I'm not
drinking and they associate drinking with fun, celebration, bonding, you know, togetherness,
it can get a little bit fuzzy, I think on
(33:54):
the receiving end. So yeah, I think it was just
an easier way to like read out, you know, yeah,
not my person.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
And what about your man? Now, what's what are his
drinking habits?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
He loves tequila, he dranks. He definitely drinks less since
we started dating. Yeah, but you know, we met in
December of twenty one, and I think it must have
been like our second date and I was like, by
the way, I'm not going to be drinking next month,
and he was like, oh, like what is that? Like
(34:30):
He's yeah, he's you know, a casual social drinker.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, does he do? Is he done dry January?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
He has not? Again, like I'm not, I'm not pushing
it on him. He's done dry like thirty one days
he has. Yeah, And he also like he played baseball
in college, so like they were pretty strict about you.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Know, yeah, yeah, yeah, all that stuff. But yeah, that's
a great wedding date.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I don't have one yet. I already decided I'm going
to have a non alcoholic cocktail. Is like my signature cocktail. Yeah, yeah,
but no, we haven't planned yet.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Well, don't get married in January.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
No, I don't think I can. It's gonna be like
I think it would just be like a little too
busy for me.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
We cannot get married in January. This is you know,
it's your wedding. Like we need to be free and
clear to do what we want. It's also freezing in
New York's freezing. Yeah, forget about that.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
No, or October if you do Silber October. October is
beautiful in New York, right, Yeah, but we can't do
Silber October on your wedding, can we?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
You know, we can do whatever. I don't know. We'll see,
I'll report back. To you after the wedding, and I'm
looking on, you know, at my wedding. Maybe it will,
maybe it won't. I don't want to add stress to
the day either.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, do you have any take on sort of these
you know, psilocybin and you know, the sort of these
new psychedelic wave of you know, not just there's a
healing aspect, there's a medicinal aspect to it. But do
you have opinions on that at all? I know we're
talking about alcohol, but you know, this is a it's
(36:08):
a substance. It's hard to call it a narcotic. I
would call alcohol more of a narcotic than I would
you know, THC honestly, or maybe even a psilocybin. But
do you have any thoughts about that at all?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You know, I'm not a medical doctor, so I can't say.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Like, right, no, of course, not good or bad.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
And I think that people should also talk to their
doctors and like, you know, discuss why they're interested in
these things, right. I think it works for people, it does,
and I think for other people it doesn't. So it's
hard to say. That's that's all I can say about that.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Okay, Well, thanks for talking. You know, September third, right
when the book comes out, Going Going Dry, Going Dry, Well,
I will check in with you and let you know
what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I will check in with you. I hope that you
have a wonderful rest of the month, whether it is
dry or I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I'm trying. I mean, for me, it's starting slow, you
know what I mean. It's like, well, okay, let's just
try to live every day and see where I'm at
with the drinking part. Meaning, you know, yesterday we biked
into you know, a place called Woody Creek Tavern, which
(37:25):
is just fun day and you have beers and da
da da, And I was like, I'm not gonna drink.
And I didn't have beers. When I sat down at
the table, it was difficult, and I was like, I'll
have an Arnold Palmer, like, eh, after you get over
that initial shock, then you feel good.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I didn't go out to dinner with my family last
night because I didn't want to have a martini and
I knew that I kind of would if I went
out to dinner. You know, So I'm trying little things. Ok.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Have you dabbled in the non alcoholic beverages?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
No, I haven't. Okay, I haven't, and I probably should.
I just don't quite understand them, you know, because yeah, okay,
do you have a do you have a do you
have a company or something?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
No? But I know people.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, No, definitely, I'd love to try. You know. It's
just for me. It's not about the social aspect of
having a drink that looks like a drink in my hand.
It's about the actual drink itself. And I do love
martiniz and I do love certain drinks or a groany
or whatever. And it's the taste and it's the feeling,
(38:39):
and it's that that moment, you know what I mean.
But I'll try it because I'm just closed minded to it, honestly,
you know so, and I'm a very open minded human,
so I should probably open my mind to it and
give it a shot. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'd love
to send me some I'll you'll get my email and stuff,
(39:01):
send me some brands or something that you know I
can pick up or something like that.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
What I'll do is I'll send you a list of
some brands that I like and their links a great shoes,
or I'll just send you like all of all of.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Them whatever, be great. Yeah, I would love that. Yeah,
I get my email because I would like to. I
would like to, you know, because and then I'll let
you go. But I'm just I just do you feel
so much fucking better when you're not drinking. No, it's
just it's just a fact, you know. And then have
those moments, have those nights, have those crazy fun nights.
But then like, dang, you don't need to drink every day.
(39:35):
That's where I want to get to because again, it's
that sober curious I don't need to be sober. Sober
you know, it's not affecting my life and ruining my life.
It's just ruining the way that I feel, right, I
like feeling like shit insides. Yeah, and I'm almost fifty.
I'll be forty eight in September. It's I get your
shit together, dude.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You know what are you going to do for your birthday?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Get hammered? No? No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Well, if you go the rest of the month you
don't drink, and you have one drink, you will get hammered.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yes, no, I know. I've noticed that. Even five days
the other day when I'm in Colorado right now, I
went five days without drinking, and then you know, we
were celebrating someone who was forming, and I was like,
all right, we'll have a night. And you know, I
had like a couple of martinis and a couple of cocktails,
like maybe four or five, which for me is normally sadly,
(40:28):
it's that's not enough to like put me over the edge.
But I was so hung over the next day, you know,
because even five days without alcohol, it was just like I,
you know, so, but my birthday, I don't know. I
don't care about my birthday. Everyone else does, like we're
gonna do this, We're gonna have a party, like whatever, whatever,
whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I don't care. I don't care, but I probably will
have cocktails on my birthday. Fair, thank you so much,
firing and light Yep, have a good one, all right,
see you later. Wow, she's so healthy. Everything about her,
like attitude is just like so healthy. Yeah, she probably
(41:10):
feels great. You know, all right, that was fun. No
more alcohol. Things like this is starting to become a pattern,
Like you know that everyone's gonna think that I'm a
an alcoholic. I'm not, God damn it. I'm just trying
to become a better person by the time, a fifty
(41:32):
healthy body. H Anyway, I am going to go now
and not have a cocktail. It's raining, but you know
it'll be great right now, like a hot toddy, you
know what I mean, Like with whiskey, hot water, honey, lemon,
(41:54):
and like a cinnamon stick in the rain in Colorado.
See why does that give me a boner? You know
what I mean? It's like instead of just sitting, you know,
looking at the rein reading a book. Great, but the
real boner pops when you've got a hot totty next
(42:18):
to you while you're doing the same thing. Anyway, let's
stop talking about that, all right. I'm out, I'm out
of here.
Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling Railvalry No, no, sibling, Raval. You don't do
that with your mouth, Vely. That's good, Yeah, I yawned,
(00:42):
I Yon, What are you gonna do about it? Nothing?
You know why, because you're just listening to me and
you can't talk back. It's kind of a good thing
about this whole podcast space. I can say what I
want and no one can respond to me or give
me their opinion in any way. It's my opinion, and
all that matters when you're listening to this shit are
(01:04):
my opinions, and if you disagree with my opinions, you
can either turn it off or just disagree with them.
I don't even know what I'm talking about right right now.
Sometimes my brain goes too fast. Sometimes my brain goes
(01:26):
too slow. That is why I'm on lexapro. See what
I just did. I just created Alexa pro jingle. Someone
copyright that because it will get stolen. So we have
(01:46):
a guest in our waiting room right now. Her name
is Hillary Shinbaum. She's a journalist. She's the founder of
going Dry dot Co, the author of the Dry Challenge
and How to Lose Booze for Drive, January, Sober October,
and any other alcohol free month. It's about giving up
(02:09):
alcohol for a month and then potentially, you know, forever.
I guess this. I'm excited to talk to her, but
I'm scared. I'm not scared. I just I feel like
the last shows that I've been doing, this sort of
alcohol thing is always coming up, and now she's here.
(02:30):
You know, is this the universe speaking to me? By
the way, I haven't had a drink in five days. Again,
preface this all. I'm prefacing on this all by saying
I don't have a problem, but I just want to
feel better. I'm forty fucking seven. I'll be forty eight's
on September seventh. I'm going to be fifty years old soon,
(02:50):
So why not in these next two years give it
a hardcore push to fifty, to see what I can do,
to see what I can accomplish with my body, you
know what I mean, like health wise, you know, maybe
an eighty twenty situation. I don't need to go one
hundred percent, Like I still want to have my fun
eighty twenty. It's time to push anyway. I don't want
(03:13):
to keep her waiting. Bring in Hillary, shine Bomb, and
let's get it on. Hey, how are you good? How
you doing good?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
How about you?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm good. I am three days soberly, so I'm feeling good.
And I'm sitting here in Colorado and it's raining, which
is nice. It's nice because it's kind of beautiful, you
know what I mean. Yeah, living in la you know,
(03:45):
you get so much sun, which of course we love.
But then it just makes you appreciate that rain where
you don't feel like you have to go do something.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, it's the pressure of going outside.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It does. When it's sunny and beautiful, you can't sit
inside and watch the Olympics, even though maybe that's what
you want to do. Right, It's like, how am I
wasting this beautiful day?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Which brings me actually into the world that we're going
to talk about soon, you know, which is sort of
this casual sober I just made that up. I'm not
sure that's what the term for it is. But dry January,
dry October, dry months sort of limiting your alcohol intake.
When it is a beautiful day, when I am watching
(04:30):
a sunset, if there is something that is incredible, it's
nearly impossible for me to do that without a cocktail
or some sort of a vice, you know what I mean,
Watching a sunset, being on a boat, doing something incredible
in nature especially, only makes it better when you have
a drink in your hand. Of course, you don't agree.
(04:54):
I'm speaking for myself right and in trying to break
my habits of that, because I wouldn't say I'm an
habitual drinker, but there are habits within my drinking. There's
Pavlovian drinking, and that is one of them, along with,
you know, maybe a cigarette or some sort of advice.
(05:15):
So I'm trying hard now to be able to go
play golf or to sit down and watch the sunset
without having a cocktail. You know. Is this something that
you have studied or addressed along the way.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I've definitely addressed it, and I feel like I've lived it,
and I'm now rallying against it. I'm not too aggressively.
I'm not one hundred percent sober, but I do recognize
what you're saying. I think that you know, in our
culture there is an opportunity for alcohol ninety nine percent
(05:54):
of the time. You know, you go to a sports scheme,
you're expecting to have a beer. You know, you go
to a baby shower and you're expecting there to be
sparkling wine, so you can, you know, cheers, And same
thing with weddings. If there isn't an open bar, people
are so disappointed. And all of the things that you mentioned,
(06:16):
like you know, going outside and watching the sunset or
taking a hike, like those are amazing great things in themselves,
especially if you're active. That's releasing endorphins. And it's just
so interesting like how alcohol has just like permeated every
single activity that we do, and especially living in New
York where people don't drive. I think it's just there
(06:39):
are endless opportunities to you know, have a cocktail, open
a bottle of wine.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
But doesn't have to be that way. M hmm. I think, well, historically,
like before we come into the present, right, let's go backwards.
And I'm again I'm not sure you address these things,
but you probably do. I don't know, but how did
it become that way? Alcohol is definitely romantic just throughout time,
(07:07):
especially when movies started to come out and there's you know,
pictures and you see someone have a Martine or Tom
Collins or you know an old fashioned you see Bogart,
you know, having a whiskey and a cigarette. There was
something really sexy about it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Do you think that has played a large part in this.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, I think pop culture absolutely alludes to it. I
mean think of like all those popular teen movies from
like the nineties, early two thousands and even still, like
everybody wants to be a part of that party and
part of like the fun that were witnessing, right, Like
everything social is happening around a drink, including like you said,
(07:51):
like romance and dating, and it's just become so normalized.
I think the advertising around alcohol is so uniquely smart, right.
It shows all these things that we as humans crave,
like human connection in the romantic sense, in the sense
of friendship, and you know, even going back before like
(08:12):
motion picture and TV. If you think about it, so
many cultures and even religion has wine, and so yeah,
people just grow up with you know, what their parents
are doing and the people around them, and so I
think it's really personal and individual, but from all different
(08:33):
you know, ways of life. We're receiving these messages, whether
we realize it or not. So it's everywhere.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And it's also a social lubricant obviously. So I mean,
if you're going back that thousand years, you know, I'm
sure it had the same effects on people as it
did as it does today, where they're able to sort
of open up a little bit more. It creates more vulnerability,
which everyone wants a little bit more so you're not
(09:00):
holding everything in, you know. I mean, if you were
to take away all the bad things about alcohol, which
a lot, there's obviously a ton, and be able to
sort of look at the good part about it, of
what it actually does for people and opens them up. Now,
of course there's the flip side of that, where it
can make you belligerent and bring out rage and interestingly
(09:22):
enough though, those are all things that probably need to
be worked on from a psychological aspect, you know what
I'm saying. But but yeah, so it's interesting too because
today we already live in an anxios We've always lived,
We were an anxious species, you know what I'm saying,
Like that's primal. We have to have anxiety. It's how
(09:44):
we have survived.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
But now today anxiety is so rampant, you know, with
kids and everything else that people are using essentially not
just enjoying, you know, they're using, and so it's important
sort of watch what you're doing, watch the amount that
you're drinking, and then have those moments, you know. And
(10:07):
that's why I'm excited to talk to you, honestly, because
I actually was listening to a book by Alan Carr.
You know Alan Carr. Okay, he has something similar. I
forget the exact title, but he has one to quit drinking.
First of all, his quit smoking one was famous, but
he had one to quit drinking in another one to
like sort of cut down on drinking. And that's something
(10:28):
that I was curious about doing, and it was much
harder than I thought. So if you can, yeah, I know,
I guess. So, if you can just get into sort
of how you how this happened, why you decided to
sort of focus in on that, I'm sure it was
from personal experience, and then how you found the best
(10:49):
ways to sort of at least start the journey and
to semi sobriety. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, it's actually a funny story. It all kind of
happened by accident, which sounds ridiculous, because it is. But
I'm going to take you back to twenty sixteen in
New York City, when I was working as an entertainment
journalist on the Red Carpet that filled my evenings. I
(11:19):
would go to after parties. I would sometimes grab dinner
with friends in between the Red Carpet and after parties
if I wasn't attending the movie premiere. But during day,
while all my friends had corporate jobs, I was writing
about food and beverage and primarily alcohol. So, you know,
living in New York, having an entertainment job, working in booze,
(11:42):
and dating in New York City, really there were just
alcohol was everywhere all the time, and even if I
wasn't drinking every day, it was not frowned upon if
I was, you know, doing it all on the job.
So fast forward to the end of twenty sixteen. I
grabbed diner with a friend and he brings up this
thing called dry January. He had asked me if I was,
(12:06):
you know, doing any New Year's resolutions, and I said no,
I said, those are silly. Said if I wanted to
change something, I'll do it, you know, tomorrow or a Monday.
I'm not waiting till January first, and yeah, once he
explained dry January, I changed the subject. I thought that
was something I would never do. It did not align
with my life or my job, and just living in
(12:29):
New York and being in you know, my twenties. I
was like, why, Like I don't have a problem, Like
I'm not not signing up for this, but lo and behold.
On New Year's Eve, I was drinking and was, you know,
tipsily texting my friends who weren't at this party and
wishing them a happy New Year. And I decided to
propose this bet to my friend that we would both
(12:53):
try dry January. And mind you, he was going out
more than I was, and so I thought my aunts
were really good. And whoever won our bet essentially would
have dinner paid for by the loser of our bet
anywhere in New York City, which is not check.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I can get very expensive.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Wasn't He's in finance, so I don't think that he
had as much anxiety as I did, Grater, but I
was willing to bet on myself, even in my tipsy state,
And so at midnight our bet began.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And I went an entire thirty one days without drinking alcohol.
He lost after about like two and a half three weeks,
he met a girl at a bar who peered him
into drinking, and that was it. I completed my you know,
my bet. He bought me dinner at a lovely Michelin
(13:50):
star restaurant that unfortunately closed recently, but to this day,
he still won't bet me anything ever again. And I
say that we both won because I ended up dedicating
my first book to him.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And he actually completed a dry January about two years ago, finally,
after like almost eight years of this, so I'm proud
of him. We're still friends and yeah, I just you know,
everything in that month, as cliche as it sounds, it
changed so much for me. It changed my sleep. My
(14:25):
skin was looking better, my mood was so much more elevated.
I was obviously saving money on you know, not spending
it on alcohol or ubers or you know, munchies at
two am, which are never healthy, right, It's always like
fries and ideas. It's never like a kale salad. But
(14:47):
I have just done dry January every year since.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Okay, that's the positives. Yeah, did it affect anything else? Though,
you know, in the negative way? Because the fear is
is I can't be social, I won't have much fun.
I'm not going to stay out and party as much
as I normally did. I'm going to be home by
ten thirty because I'm like, kind of man, this isn't fun,
you know. I mean, my friend going on with friends
to bars and you know the lifestyle that you have
(15:12):
sort of ingrained. And I'm speaking for you, but I'm
also speaking for myself essentially. You know, was it hard
to get past that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
And no. I still went to bars, I still hung
out with the same people. I definitely got a bit
of attitude from those same people who were, you know,
wondering why I was giving up alcohol for a month
if I was just going to drink on February first anyway, right,
that was their big question, like this isn't permanent, you
don't have a problem, like why are you doing this?
(15:44):
And I definitely felt the difference in dating. I think
for the better and for maybe a little bit like unexpectedly.
I wouldn't say for the worse, just different. You know,
people who I thought would be like cool and like
unbothered by my decision making, we're a little bit more
(16:06):
pushy than I anticipated, but you know, I do have
to say that was almost eight years ago. This is
you know, I'm going into my this will be my
ninth dry January coming up this January. And I think
that people have become definitely kinder and more inclusive and accepting,
and even you know, restaurant and bar menus reflect that.
(16:29):
So I think now the conversation isn't you know, do
you have a problem or are you pregnant or is
there a health concern or you know, what's wrong with you.
I think that people are a little bit more kind,
and you know, they understand that you might be taking
a night off, you might be taking a lifetime off, and.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Like that's okay, m But yeah, to.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Answer your question, definitely some good things and you know,
some shocking, not so friendly things.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But yeah, and was it hard to begin with? Like
fuck man, everyone's having like a cocktail, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, but like also no, like I think that I
was really motivated by the fact that I did not
want to lose this bet. And I this was also
like one of my closest friends. So if we weren't
together in the same room, you know, I did have
at least sometimes you know, people who were there who
(17:28):
were like, yeah, you have to beat him, like you
can't like let us down, you know what I mean.
I don't know. I think I just started feeling better
like ten days in, and I feel like that also
motivated me to.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Like keep going.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yes, but I also knew that again, like this was
not for me as somebody who's not in recovery. This
was not a lifetime pledge. So for me like thinking like, okay,
I can do this for thirty one days, Like I
can't do anything for thirty one days.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, So after that jam, after that first January, were
you motivated to keep going? I was like, February's here,
Like let's go.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
For the first couple of years, Like February first, I went,
you know, headfirst into a cocktail, right, and it was
not the best decision. I don't know why I had
to make that mistake several times, but like I remember
that first year, I had like the worst red wine
hangover of my life and I had maybe two glasses.
(18:38):
And that really speaks to you.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Know clean you were.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean, my tours was so low, but I was
just yeah, I was in a lot of pain. I
think towards maybe like year four, I extended it, you know,
into February. I've gone as long as you know, six
months without alcohol, and now I do a number of
other dry months, Like I always do a sober October
now and sometimes I'll do like sober September. It just
(19:07):
kind of depends. Like I'm I'm also a really big
advocate of trying on alcoholic beverages, and so when people
ask me for advice, I want to be able to
tell them like, this is comparable. So I'm not against
you know, like sipping a cocktail or a glass of
wine in order to for the educational purposes of it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
All Right, Well, the my whole mocktail world is kind
of blowing up, blowing out. Yeah. I mean my daughter,
you know, always like I'm getting in a mocktail, and
you know she loves them. Yeah. But do you attribute
that to people just trying to cut back on drinking
and wanting to have the experience of having a drink
(19:48):
that looks like a cocktail that doesn't have alcohol for
social purposes?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I guess I think for for a ton of reasons.
I think that for one, people want to have something
that's sophisticated. They want to sip on it. They're not
looking to chug like a glass of water at a bar, right, Yeah.
And I also think that like I kind of like
chalk it up to the same or equal experience of
(20:15):
like having a tasting menu with like wines. Right, you
want to still enjoy like food pairings and that social
experience and you know, sharing a drink with friends and
not being like on the completely opposite side of the spectrum,
which like there's nothing wrong with diet Cooke. I will
(20:36):
drink ten a day to take it, but you know,
like sometimes you just you want to feel like you're
having an adult drink just without booze.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, and what have you?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Okay, how many books have you written?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So I've written three, two are in the sober Curious.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Space, okay, and then you got a one coming out
in September, right, right, So that's the third, Okay, And
what's the third?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So it's called Going Dry. It is a work book
with like seventy plus activities and journaling prompts and you know,
ways for the reader to record how they're feeling and
really evaluate their relationship with alcohol and you know, drinking less.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Does it help you get through a dry month, Well,
is it does? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You know what's funny is I think that it's easy
to remember like the sum of your month, right, Like
I can sit here and tell you like I had
you know, clearer skin and I felt better. And some
people know that they lose, you know, a certain amount
of weight over time. I don't, as I replace my
booze with ice cream. But I think that it is
(21:45):
so important to like draw down exactly how you're feeling
and report like how many hours of sleep? You know,
do what I have? I were, you know, a whoop
and that sleep because I'm lazy. But I think it's
just so telling. Is now, even when I'll have a drink,
I'll see how that affects me and you know, even
(22:06):
my mood. Like sometimes it'll be a beautiful day, I'll
have like the best weekend, and I'm like, why do
I feel so down? And then I have to remember, like, oh,
I had a glass of wine the other night and
it's probably still affecting me in some way. So yeah,
I think it's important to you know, really track like
your feelings, like your you know, physically mentally emotional.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Sure, well, it's funny because people drink. There's a million
different reasons why people drink. I mean, no one, no
one drinks for health. Okay, You're drinking to be social,
You're drinking because of pain, You're drinking because you have anxiety.
(22:48):
I mean, there's all different reasons why people drink. The
best way to drink is because you're out with your
friends and you want to have a good time, right right.
But the interesting thing about alcohol, and I'm only speaking
from experience, because you know, I have anxiety and you
know life is crazy, and you can drink and you
can alleviate that for the time being. But the problem
(23:10):
is is that alcohol perpetuates those feelings. It masks them,
but then makes them worse. You know, when you have
a hangover, your anxiety is an exacerbated ten X, you
know what I'm saying, and it's this awful, horrible feeling.
But then you have to drink again to sort of
get back into that place of normality, normalcy, and you're chasing,
(23:34):
You're just chasing, chasing. I've experienced that before. And then
once you come off of it for three, four, even
four or five days, the clarity that you have, you know,
just the life force that you have again is so amazing.
It feels good to feel good, you know, but there's
(23:57):
also a part of you thinking am I missing out
on something when in reality you're fucking not, you know.
And I think taking a month to actually experience feeling
good and feeling what your best self could feel like,
it's probably one of the great things you can do
because you've given yourself an example of your potential. You know,
(24:23):
are there tricks because we're just based on willpower. It's
just like okay, it's dry January, Okay, fuck off alcohol
and you know, here we go. But that's that's that's
hard to do when you have patterns, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, there are a lot of tips that I have
that I think can help sustain that you know, positive attitude,
because I think everyone starts off really strong, hm that
first weekend rolls around and they're like itching the happy
hour or like, you know, it's like, oh what am
I doing now? So I always say it's a great
(25:02):
idea to recruit a friend. You don't have to make
a bet like I did. I certainly think that motivated me.
But I think having a friend who will be there
to you know, listen to the ups and downs, and
you'll be able to cheer lead for them too is
really helpful, and you can vent to them. I know
(25:23):
that my friend and I we had like the funniest
text chain going back and forth for a really long
time being like, oh, it sucks to be with people
who are so drunk right now, but you know that
was also a reason to it was probably time to
go home. So that's that's Number one. It's recruit a friend.
Somebody's going to back you up and cheer you on,
(25:44):
and you'll do the same for them. Number two is
I always say take the lead in making plans. So
even if your Friday night always revolves around going to
a bar, I would just like take the reins your
friend group and say we're going to do this instead,
and find a way that makes you comfortable even if
(26:06):
they are drinking, Like make sure you're going to a
bar with non alcoholic options, or you're I don't know,
maybe you're going bowling so that you have something to
do with your hands, or like, you know, some other
activity that isn't centered around booze. I think that's really important.
The third is trying on alcoholic beverages. There are so
many wine, beer and spirits that are non alcoholic that
(26:28):
are actually good. There are websites like Better Roads is one.
They have a huge selection of all of those things,
and even pre made cocktails. There's even functional cocktails now,
like a brand called Domo that you know will just
like kind of release the same.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Energy as Yeah, I've I've been reading about these where
it's like it's non alcoholic, but it's giving you an
a a you know, a sensation of some kind exactly.
It's not caffeine or anything, but like.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That's given and you're still good to drive, and you're
still good to make decisions, and you know you're not
going to be waking up the next day and being like,
oh my god, what did I do last night? So
that's another tip. And I think above all, I think
it's just so so important to be kind to yourself
throughout the entire process. I always say that even if you're,
(27:22):
you know, doing a dry January and you have a
drink where you have a night of drinking, just start
again the next day. Like you don't have to be perfect.
It's not about punishing yourself. It's really about seeing how
alcohol affects your day to day life, what your relationship
is to it. And you know, just drinking less. I
(27:42):
think less is better, is more? Right?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I think you make a great point be kind to
yourself because not just with this, but anything that you're
trying to do and make a habit of in a
good way, meaning meditation or not drinking or you know,
working out, and you set goals for yourself, and you
(28:07):
set schedules. When you mess up, we tend to fucking
beat ourselves up instead of being hey, you know what, okay,
it's all right whatever. You know, why am I be
kind to yourself here? So the meditation didn't go great,
it's not exactly perfect the way that you wanted to go, Okay, whatever,
So it's dry January, and oh man, I had the
(28:30):
cocktails of my friends. It was an amazing night. We
went to the concert and it was incredible and a
memory I'll never forget. Okay, start over, Be kind yourself.
I think that's an important message for sure. You know, now,
what about weed? What if I want to smoke weed
during my drive January?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I say, first of all, no judgment. However, it's not
like an excuse to dabble in other things. But everybody
has their own rules, right, Like some people are sober.
Some people are sober. Some people they do their own thing.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Your adventure, it's yeah, my month. But we definitely don't
want to lie replace the alcohol with other things potentially.
We're just we're trying to be as clear as possible.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, I know, well I think I draw the line there.
I'm probably going to have to smoke a joint at night.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I appreciate your honesty.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, it's just it's you know, it's just gotta It's
just it's just gotta happen. You know. So when you
were did your drinking ever get bad? I mean, were
you ever drinking like getting hammered and you know, sloppy
and bad bad?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You know, I live in New York. It happens.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I actually recently wrote a piece for The Not about
attending my cousin's bachelorette party and like telling the group
of other individuals on this trip that I needed to
like take a rest on the subway platform and like
lie my head on somebody who's like double that. So
(30:19):
like listen, like I've had my fun, I've had my
whatever it is. I I never had a dependency issue,
and certainly, you know, looking back, I think that every
I shouldn't say everyone, but I think a lot of
people have, you know, moments in their lifetime where they
(30:39):
are like that's a little curious. But no, for the
most part, you know, just living my life as a
twenty something in New York has had its stories.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And how old are you now?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I'm like, how old am I? I'm thirty six?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Okay, yeah, So what's this dry dating that you've talked about?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, that was a fun one. So I'm now engaged.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Thanks. But you know, for for a number of years,
especially during my dry months, I was single, and I
remember that first year and the second year. It was
just a very interesting conversation to have with people, especially
like that first year, I was not planning on doing
(31:37):
a dry month. I you know, made a bet at midnight,
like went home to my apartment that night slash morning
after the ball drops, woke up in my apartment and
I was like, oh my god, there are bottles of
wine everywhere. There is, you know, a bar card with everything,
Like what am I doing? So I think that explaining
(31:58):
to people that I was like dating at the time,
like you know, each year, like I'm just I'm not
going to have go on these like dates where we're drinking.
It was a little bit of an adjustment. But again,
like I think some people were gun ho and like
we're really supportive and also wanted me to win that bet,
(32:20):
and other people just didn't get it. And I think
for me that became a red flag like if this
person isn't supporting something that is beneficial to my health
and you know, just me being a curious person and
seeing how it turns out. Then when I tell you
the other goals and weird things that I think are
cool and that I want to accomplish, like how are
(32:40):
you going to react? And and I think that was
very eye opening to me. You know, if somebody was
pushy about like oh you should be drinking or like
it's one, I was like, you're not my person.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So the idea is is finding someone who who's accepting
of that part of a few? Yeah, I think also
as far as I dating goes, Yeah, given that.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
It's it's thirty one days and I was not imposing
these rules on.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Them, right, they could drink if they want.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I was just like, I'm not drinking, but why is
that bothering you?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well, it's just you know, they're projecting, and that's just
self reflective essentially. You know, if I have a problem,
you're not drinking, it's like what you're telling me that
I have a problem. I mean that's internally subconsciously, I'm
sure that's what they're saying to themselves, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah. Also, like as we were saying, like, drinking means
different things to different people. It means fun, it means bonding,
it means celebration. So when you tell someone I'm not
drinking and they associate drinking with fun, celebration, bonding, you know, togetherness,
it can get a little bit fuzzy, I think on
(33:54):
the receiving end. So yeah, I think it was just
an easier way to like read out, you know, yeah,
not my person.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
And what about your man? Now, what's what are his
drinking habits?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
He loves tequila, he dranks. He definitely drinks less since
we started dating. Yeah, but you know, we met in
December of twenty one, and I think it must have
been like our second date and I was like, by
the way, I'm not going to be drinking next month,
and he was like, oh, like what is that? Like
(34:30):
He's yeah, he's you know, a casual social drinker.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, does he do? Is he done dry January?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
He has not? Again, like I'm not, I'm not pushing
it on him. He's done dry like thirty one days
he has. Yeah, And he also like he played baseball
in college, so like they were pretty strict about you.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Know, yeah, yeah, yeah, all that stuff. But yeah, that's
a great wedding date.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I don't have one yet. I already decided I'm going
to have a non alcoholic cocktail. Is like my signature cocktail. Yeah, yeah,
but no, we haven't planned yet.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Well, don't get married in January.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
No, I don't think I can. It's gonna be like
I think it would just be like a little too
busy for me.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
We cannot get married in January. This is you know,
it's your wedding. Like we need to be free and
clear to do what we want. It's also freezing in
New York's freezing. Yeah, forget about that.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
No, or October if you do Silber October. October is
beautiful in New York, right, Yeah, but we can't do
Silber October on your wedding, can we?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
You know, we can do whatever. I don't know. We'll see,
I'll report back. To you after the wedding, and I'm
looking on, you know, at my wedding. Maybe it will,
maybe it won't. I don't want to add stress to
the day either.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, do you have any take on sort of these
you know, psilocybin and you know, the sort of these
new psychedelic wave of you know, not just there's a
healing aspect, there's a medicinal aspect to it. But do
you have opinions on that at all? I know we're
talking about alcohol, but you know, this is a it's
(36:08):
a substance. It's hard to call it a narcotic. I
would call alcohol more of a narcotic than I would
you know, THC honestly, or maybe even a psilocybin. But
do you have any thoughts about that at all?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You know, I'm not a medical doctor, so I can't say.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Like, right, no, of course, not good or bad.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
And I think that people should also talk to their
doctors and like, you know, discuss why they're interested in
these things, right. I think it works for people, it does,
and I think for other people it doesn't. So it's
hard to say. That's that's all I can say about that.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Okay, Well, thanks for talking. You know, September third, right
when the book comes out, Going Going Dry, Going Dry, Well,
I will check in with you and let you know
what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I will check in with you. I hope that you
have a wonderful rest of the month, whether it is
dry or I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I'm trying. I mean, for me, it's starting slow, you
know what I mean. It's like, well, okay, let's just
try to live every day and see where I'm at
with the drinking part. Meaning, you know, yesterday we biked
into you know, a place called Woody Creek Tavern, which
(37:25):
is just fun day and you have beers and da
da da, And I was like, I'm not gonna drink.
And I didn't have beers. When I sat down at
the table, it was difficult, and I was like, I'll
have an Arnold Palmer, like, eh, after you get over
that initial shock, then you feel good.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I didn't go out to dinner with my family last
night because I didn't want to have a martini and
I knew that I kind of would if I went
out to dinner. You know, So I'm trying little things. Ok.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Have you dabbled in the non alcoholic beverages?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
No, I haven't. Okay, I haven't, and I probably should.
I just don't quite understand them, you know, because yeah, okay,
do you have a do you have a do you
have a company or something?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
No? But I know people.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, No, definitely, I'd love to try. You know. It's
just for me. It's not about the social aspect of
having a drink that looks like a drink in my hand.
It's about the actual drink itself. And I do love
martiniz and I do love certain drinks or a groany
or whatever. And it's the taste and it's the feeling,
(38:39):
and it's that that moment, you know what I mean.
But I'll try it because I'm just closed minded to it, honestly,
you know so, and I'm a very open minded human,
so I should probably open my mind to it and
give it a shot. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'd love
to send me some I'll you'll get my email and stuff,
(39:01):
send me some brands or something that you know I
can pick up or something like that.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
What I'll do is I'll send you a list of
some brands that I like and their links a great shoes,
or I'll just send you like all of all of.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Them whatever, be great. Yeah, I would love that. Yeah,
I get my email because I would like to. I
would like to, you know, because and then I'll let
you go. But I'm just I just do you feel
so much fucking better when you're not drinking. No, it's
just it's just a fact, you know. And then have
those moments, have those nights, have those crazy fun nights.
But then like, dang, you don't need to drink every day.
(39:35):
That's where I want to get to because again, it's
that sober curious I don't need to be sober. Sober
you know, it's not affecting my life and ruining my life.
It's just ruining the way that I feel, right, I
like feeling like shit insides. Yeah, and I'm almost fifty.
I'll be forty eight in September. It's I get your
shit together, dude.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You know what are you going to do for your birthday?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Get hammered? No? No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Well, if you go the rest of the month you
don't drink, and you have one drink, you will get hammered.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yes, no, I know. I've noticed that. Even five days
the other day when I'm in Colorado right now, I
went five days without drinking, and then you know, we
were celebrating someone who was forming, and I was like,
all right, we'll have a night. And you know, I
had like a couple of martinis and a couple of cocktails,
like maybe four or five, which for me is normally sadly,
(40:28):
it's that's not enough to like put me over the edge.
But I was so hung over the next day, you know,
because even five days without alcohol, it was just like I,
you know, so, but my birthday, I don't know. I
don't care about my birthday. Everyone else does, like we're
gonna do this, We're gonna have a party, like whatever, whatever,
whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I don't care. I don't care, but I probably will
have cocktails on my birthday. Fair, thank you so much,
firing and light Yep, have a good one, all right,
see you later. Wow, she's so healthy. Everything about her,
like attitude is just like so healthy. Yeah, she probably
(41:10):
feels great. You know, all right, that was fun. No
more alcohol. Things like this is starting to become a pattern,
Like you know that everyone's gonna think that I'm a
an alcoholic. I'm not, God damn it. I'm just trying
to become a better person by the time, a fifty
(41:32):
healthy body. H Anyway, I am going to go now
and not have a cocktail. It's raining, but you know
it'll be great right now, like a hot toddy, you
know what I mean, Like with whiskey, hot water, honey, lemon,
(41:54):
and like a cinnamon stick in the rain in Colorado.
See why does that give me a boner? You know
what I mean? It's like instead of just sitting, you know,
looking at the rein reading a book. Great, but the
real boner pops when you've got a hot totty next
(42:18):
to you while you're doing the same thing. Anyway, let's
stop talking about that, all right. I'm out, I'm out
of here.
Hosts And Creators
Oliver Hudson
Kate Hudson
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