November 21, 2024 • 43 mins
Finding love online is a struggle for all singles, but for people with chronic illnesses, dating apps can be downright daunting!
Sisters Alexa and Jacqueline Child created an app called ‘Dateability’ which offers singles a whole new dating pool, and it’s already making a splash!!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Railval No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Revelry. That's good, Oliver Hudson. Here back live. It's not live. Well,
it's live. It's live for me because I'm talking right
now in real time. It's not live for you because
(00:55):
you're listening to it weeks after days. I don't know
when they're gonna enough about me. Let's bring on Alexa
and Jacqueline Child. Of course, there's a million dating sites now,
there's whatever, Tinder, Rayah, Bumble, Hazelnut, you know, Blueberry Hill.
I don't know. There's a million different names. I have
no idea what they are. I'm not all on them.
(01:16):
But this is very specific where you know, it's a
dating app for well, she has I think I think
it's Jacqueline has chronic illness and she, you know, has
been experiencing this for a minute now, and and she
has this disability. To create a dating app for people
(01:38):
with disabilities, it's interesting anyway, bring them on why am
I talking? Let's let them talk. Hey, guys, how are
you good? How I'm good? This is so interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, let's let's start not right now, Let's not start here,
Let's start elsewhere. So for how old are you? Guys?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm thirty four and I'm thirty.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I explain to me. First of all, Jacqueline explained, sort of,
you know your journey, you know how this came about
for you, you know when sort of these disabilities started
to happen in your life. How dating was the inspiration
behind this? Because this is very cool.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
All right. So the story starts when I was about fourteen,
and I was seemingly healthy, didn't know that my genetics
were super messed up, and I contracted a virus WANO,
also known as the kissing disease. Had it had every
fourteen year old girl.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I had it New Year's Eve, Vail, Colorado on a
bus eight. I was some girl. Yeah. Ruin ruined me
for like three months, Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's same, and ever since that, I just never fully recovered.
And then things really began to spiral out of control.
And I learned that I was, you know, predisposed to
a bunch of other illnesses, and so from that point on,
in my freshman year of high school, I was now
(03:10):
dealing with all these chronic illnesses. And you know, I've
had over forty surgeries in my lifetime, like two brain surgeries,
open heart surgery, literally from my head to my toes,
and that has been something that I really you know,
struggled with, but like have been able to manage fine.
I cope with it really well. You also parted your hair, Yeah,
(03:31):
you lost like the top strip of her hair in
high school and the boys would call her raggedy ann
very very sweet. But you know, my dating life was
like very typical in high school. I had a long
term boyfriend and I dated and so on. But then
once I graduated college and moved in with Alexa, I
joined the dating apps and realized that, you know, the
(03:54):
guys were really really harsh about me having chronic illnesses.
If it if I tried to hide it and it
would come up, it would be terrible. If I told
them straight off the bat, it would be terrible. And
people would tell me that I was a burden that
they didn't really want to deal with this extra stress
of having to worry about someone who was in and
out of surgeries. They told me not to have biological
(04:16):
children because I could pass on my genetics. And so
this just happened like over and over again. And meanwhile Alexa,
my big older sister, was like, guys were begging her
to date, like they were just like let me. She
would she would reject them right off the bat, and
they would be like, no, please, just give me a chance.
(04:37):
I was embarrassing. I resented her and it was really
hard to get through. I was just like, why can't
I get one first date? And then we came up
with creating datability because we just figured that there had
to be a place out there for people like me
to date. Who know, I could meet people who could
relate to me and I don't have to live this
(05:00):
pressure filled life of having to explain myself.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Wow, a lot to unpack. First of all, datability incredible name.
Thank you man who came up with it. Really good,
really really really good. Okay, hold on, I gotta go back.
So forty surgeries. That's gnarly. The fortitude that you must
(05:24):
have to be smiling and to be powering through your life,
not only that, but also using it to create something.
Not only that could be extremely successful and make you
a billion dollars, but also to help everyone else who
might be going through your situation is completely admirable. I mean,
like I have like a little anxiety. Okay, it's crazy.
(05:50):
It's crazy to the world for me. Yeah, So let
me ask you a question. Do you think this is
kind of a philosophical or deeper question but not really,
But do you think that certain people are able to
handle these kinds of obstacles and setbacks and some people aren't.
Or do you think that the human condition is such
(06:13):
that when these things happened to you, the body, the mind,
the emotion goes into a place where it's fight or
flight in the sense of it's survival or are you
just conditioning or is this just your genetics the good
part of your genetics.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think it's a little bit of both. I have
always had this like attitude where I never complained as
a child, Like as a healthy child, if I would
break my wrist, I'd be like, I think something's wrong.
Should we should check that out? And they'd be like, oh, yeah,
your wrist is shattered, and so I And I was
always like a pretty happy child, really smiling and Bubbly
(06:54):
is like a teacher's pet. And then when this all
happened to me, I everything was out of my control.
So I was like, is in my control? It's how
I react to all of this. And you know, I
mental health is really not a lot of people's choice,
but for me, I feel like making it a choice
has really helped me get there. And there's definitely parts
(07:18):
of my life that you know, I was really down
in the dumps and had to seek help. But I
truly try to look on the bright side of everything.
And I and I don't believe everything happens for a reason,
but I believe that there's a you can find a
reason in every experience. That I agree, and so I
just like I do, think it's both. I've been able
(07:39):
to adapt and it honestly, sometimes it's a negative thing
because I I sometimes don't take things like as seriously.
If someone comes to me with a problem, I'm like,
you'll be fine, It's it's not the end of the world.
Or like, even with my own health, there's been moments
where I'm you know, I ended up having a blood
(08:00):
clot like eighteen inches long in my body and I
almost didn't go to the hospital because I thought it
was just my normal pain that I was dealing with
and that I would be fine, And I ended up
Alexa convinced me to go. I bullied you it should.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Go, oh oh really going?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And they were like, if you hadn't come in, you
would have been dead in twenty four hours. And so
there's there's definitely pros and cons. But yeah, I just
I do my best to put on a brave face
and smile every day. And she's being truthful because the
reasons why I didn't like her when we were younger
the reasons why I love her now. The positivity.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Dark totally. Is that So you've been moving back further
in the timeline. Is that how sort of you guys
grew up? I mean, I know four your difference is
pretty decent, you know what I mean, that's pretty big.
So Jack, you would just just rat out your sister.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, And I'll let you tell that because unately you were,
you were victimized. Yeah. I was not the happiest child,
and I it was okay, was in school, I was
did well. Yeah, but I was not the happiest kid
and it only got worse with hormones. But Chapmen loved
to wrap me out any little thing, any discrepancy. I
(09:18):
was always grounded, always in high school. And I think
you're better about catching yourself now, but I still find
you sometimes like you just like to share things with
our parents, And I'm like, why would you say that.
I don't don't tell them that. Yeah, and I'm with
a secret keeper, like the mischievous one. But it was
we fought a lot when we were younger, because four years.
(09:38):
When you're younger now it's like no big like we're
in the our thirties thing. But when you're younger, when
I'm sixteen, and I'm all I can think about is
like partying and boys. She's twelve. Yeah, I mean, what
what is a twelve year old going to do when
she's going through her closet and finds a backpack full
of like ten empty champagne bottles. I freaked out and
(09:59):
I was like, mom, Alex problem.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Oh my god. I know. So it was coming from
a good place, or was it?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It always does comes from a good place, all right.
It came from a place of me really wanting to
hang out with her. So I figured that if she
was grounded, that's all she would get to do is
hang out with.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Me, and it backfired no, of course, because you're like,
fuck you are you crazy? Yeah, you're killing me right now.
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I was like the biggest buzzkill for your tidenage years.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well, Kate, I mean, Kate used to tattle on me
like nuts, and it was similar. I was sort of
she wasn't teacher's petty, but she was just so big.
That's why she's you know, famous and a great actor
and all that stuff. But she was like look at
me and dancing and don and then hey, mom, look
ing singing. I'm like, Kate, just fucking calm down, you
(11:01):
know what I mean, just pull it back a little
bit here, you know. And then I'd like tripper pusher this,
and like, oh pleasure. But then one day she got
in trouble for tattling, and I was like.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yes, I wish that would happen to you. I did
get in trouble because I broke lets's finger. Her pain
what now, I know we were so we grew up
and tell your ride and I know you're cool, you know,
little competition between you're part of the state in hours,
(11:37):
but so we're on vacation and Alexaid asked me to
get the shampoo for her. She was in the shower
and she all she needed to do is like reach
out of the shower curtain and grab it. And uh,
I was busy playing doing something and and she said,
you know you're you're being the biggest bitch ever. And
(11:58):
I flip went into the shower and I said, you
want your shampoo. And I grabbed her hands and I
pushed her pinky all the way back and I broke.
She goes out screaming, like with her hair full of shampoo.
And I do believe I got scolded, but I don't
think you got in trouble the way I would have
gotten in trouble. I also got in trouble for calling
(12:19):
me a bit.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, of course, Oh my gosh. We need to talk
to your parents and figure this out.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
You know, you should see them now. Though they're so
happy that we're best friends, we live together, which would
have thought that, and we've lived together for like seven
or seven years.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Oh my god, that's amazing. I mean, that happens, you know,
I mean, my sister and I talk about on this
podcast all the time, where you know, you know, we
came from a product of divorce, and so there was
a lot of you know, a little bit of chaos
and just trying to figure out a lot of shit.
But we weren't best of friends at all.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
And then even in high school, she would bug me,
she wanted to hook up with my friends, be with
my hanging on my door knob, like all of our
let me come in. I'm like, hey, leave me the
fuck alone. And then that switched, you know, and I
when when you know, I went to college and I
was nineteen coming home, and you know, I was like, oh,
Carla looks good, Like Kate, let me come in your room.
She's like, all of her leave me alone. You know.
(13:16):
So it was it was it was like that. And
then only in our later years she got married and
she did this, and only in her later years did
we really sort of reconnect and become best of friends.
That happens, you know, It's okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I mean, it really gives us a lot of good
memories to talk about. I mean, we were we were
definitely close, but we fought so much where like any
little thing would tip us over, you know, like if
you're we would be on the air on an airplane,
and she'd be reading her magazine, and if my eyes
just glanced over at her magazine while she was reading it,
(13:52):
she would be get so mad at me. She'd be
like obsessed with me. Now now she used the one
inviting me to everything.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
She's like, come out, Yeah, is there anything in your
childhood that you remember specifically or when you were, you know,
a crazy teenager or whatever that you that you tattled
on where it was monumental where it was just like,
holy shit, I cannot believe you just ratted me out.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
This champagne bottle almost pretty bad. Yeah, because I was
a senior. I was already going to college, like I
got accepted to college. I knew I was, and so
I couldn't believe that I was getting in trouble for
this because like in six months, just like I'm going
to be in college and what do you think I'm
going to be doing there? And I don't even think
And I think it was bad for our family because
I'm not even sure our mom like really knew what
(14:43):
to do with it either, because she's like, yeah, you're
leaving for college, like I think I'm going even been
like eighteen, So she's like, well, shit, like do I
ground her? Do I knock around her? And she's like, well,
she's drinking in my house. I guess I have to
ground her. But we were all kind of like what
it was bad? Yeah, there's been I'm trying to think
of other times I've never gotten you in trouble.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
No, well, because it seems like Jacqueline doesn't get in trouble.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
No, that's not true. But I calls me. She called
me a sympathetic character.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, right, so you can do no wrong because you
just hear you just there's so much you want to
I got it well when you were fourteen when this
all started to happen, and Alexa like, how did you
(15:34):
deal with that? Now? You were what eighteen at the time.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, I was a sophomore in college, like by the
time this. So she got mona at fourteen and this
started happening the next year, I would say, right, And
so I was a sophomore in college and I went
back east. I was in college in Massachusetts, and so
I was really disconnected from what was going on. My
mom would call me crying, saying that they can't figure
out what's wrong with her. But I think it was
(15:57):
the beginning of us becoming closer. I think that it
grounded you to a little bit. It made you more
real and dare I say, imperfect? And so that actually
brought us closer.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Right yeah. And then as it continued on, you know,
you just got closer and closer. And then at what
point did you sort of were you there by your
sister's side a lot? You know what I mean? At
some point it was because you're in college, and then
it's like, oh shit, this is real, this isn't just
(16:31):
like mono, and then something else, this is snarly.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, and that probably changed when I was in law school,
I think is when it became really real and he
started having major surgeries. But my pain in the ass
aspects of myself actually make me a good advocate for Jacqueline.
So we'll be when she had hurt surgery, we were
in the hospital and they wanted to give her tail
in all after and I was like, absolutely, like, she's
in pain, she needs more than tail and all. I
(16:56):
will stand up for her. I will make sure she
gets the care she needs. I will be there by
her side. And so the things that brought us apart
later earlier in life brought us together later in life
and had made me useful. Yeah, my chronic illness has
really brought our family together. Our dad has rheuma toward arthritis,
and one day he woke up and literally could not
(17:16):
get out of bed, and it was he went from
a very active, like professional equestrian life and an executive
at MasterCard to all of a sudden, just like literally
not being able to roll over in bed. And so
that first glimpse into chronic illness. But it's different when
you're you're in your forties and fifties and you're the parent,
(17:38):
you're you know, you're that's just then the natural progression
of things. But when I got sick, it was it
really did a number on our family and it you know,
all of our trips would revolve around me getting medical care,
so we would you know, be traveling all over the
country and that was it was hard and it was
a big strain. And I think that it's there's like
(17:59):
a phenomenon called the last child phenomenon, and that's when
there's a sibling of a disabled or a sick child,
and a lot of times the siblings feel feel like
they're you know, they're invisible and you can see right
them and they don't get as much attention. And I
think in the beginning that was that was definitely the
case with Alexa. And just like my parents didn't have
(18:20):
that capacity to make sure she had all of her
needs taken care of. They were like, she's in college,
she's independent, she's got this. But then as as we
got more used to me being disabled, my parents have
really been been sure to like make sure Alexa's needs
are taking care of just as much as mine.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, it's interesting doing how how was that, Alexa? I mean,
I've I've never heard the actual term, but I understand
what that is, you know, I mean, did you feel
neglected or did you understand the situation?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Not really, I think I understood. I am fiercely independent,
like I was that kindergarten carnin Are on the first
aid school. That was like peace and then turned never
looked back, right, like I'm just walked to school. That's
the way I always was. And so I didn't really
I wasn't really bothered by it. I think sometimes there
would be important events like an award ceremony in college
and my mom wouldn't be able to go. But I
(19:14):
but I also was like, well, She's also in high school,
so like sickness or not, she might not have been
able to go. I just chopped it up to that
or her friends asking how Jacqueline is. They didn't ask
about me, but I'm like whatever, Like it's fine for once,
I'm not getting in trouble, so we're all good. Knock arounded.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And then Jacqueline, you know, not to get too far
into and you can talk about as much as you want,
but you know, when you're talking about forty surgeries, how
does something like mono all of a sudden devolve into this?
Is this is this sort of an autoimmune situation that
just it's like a ravaging Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So it start out with like this, a diagnosis of POTS,
which has been in the news a lot lately because
it's also a lot of people who have had COVID
also end up with POTS. And it was a you
know that if it had stopped there, it would have
been okay and manageable, and I probably would have had
(20:12):
a very different life. But it uncovered a bunch of
things that I had already had. I had no idea
that I had a congenital heart defect, and it wasn't
until I was like twenty three that I found out
that my aorta goes the completely wrong way and they
had to go fix that. Like, I have a lot
(20:34):
of congenital issues that happened, connective tissue stuff, and so
it did. It triggered some sort of autoimmune aunts where
now I have lupus and rheumatoid arthritis and immuno deficiency issues.
So it's been Yeah, I see a lot of doctors
in my medical binders are inches thick.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, So what's your day to day? You know? What
I mean? Is our good days bad days? Is that
kind of how it works?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I say, there's bad days and then there's worse days.
I live at a really high pain level, of high
fatigue level, but I try to get out as like
as do as much as I can. You know, I
have a dog that I will walk every single day.
I there have been years that I have been more
isolated and been a hermit. But and that was like
(21:22):
in my mind to protect my physicality. But I realize
that it doesn't matter if I sit at home all
day or if I go to a concert, Like the
end result is pretty much the same. I'm gonna be
in pain. So I I got to just live my
life and have to.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
So you're essentially in pain as we speak, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
All the time, which I gus, I can't grasp like
I can't.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I can't even now, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I think we had a conversation the today where we
were both we have had a crazy day and the
next day I got so I was exhaustive and then
I get sleep and I wake up and I feel normal. Right,
So you don't feel normal right now, like you're not
back to baseline. And she was like explaining to me
how it works, and it Yeah, I still can't fully
wrap my head around.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Because baseline is just like what you said, baseline is
just not a ton of pain, but just pain. Yeah,
And so like right now, where where where do you hurt?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
My I have a lot of joint pain and so
like my lower back, my knees, my fingers, neck, mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And how do you how do you mitigate the pain?
You know? Is it just through drugs? You know?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Through yeah, pain management management team. You know, I'm not
afraid of medication. I definitely will experiment with things with
like obviously with my doctors and try to do that.
You know, yesterday I had a six hour long infusion,
(22:49):
so a lot of and then a lot of just
like lifestyle things like I do try to listen to
my body as much as I can.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And then is this a lifelong journey?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah? Yeah, I don't think. I think that there's you know,
my mom is really hell bent on like fixing me
and fixing my chronic illnesses. And she is the person
who's always researching drug comes out and she's like, let's
let's try this.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And stem cells and all that.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, and I understand that, but I don't see a
world in which like my pain and my illnesses are
totally cured. I mean, nothing that I deal with has
any sort of cure. But I will I'll never stop trying.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, let me ask a question. Do you think hope
can be detrimental in that? In that aspect? Yeah, know
what I mean, Like hope is obviously a very positive word, right,
It's like hope, we have hope, we have hope, But
sometimes hope can sort of lead to non acceptance essentially
that one.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Hundred you're living in denial. Yeah, right. I keep low
expectations and that's really helped me, Like if I if
I try this, like I'm not expecting to feel better
at all. If I do, it's a great plus. But
I don't go into anything thinking that it's going to
be a game changer.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Mm hmm. And what about mental health for you and
how you've dealt with that through the years, you know
where you said, you know you're a hermit for sort
of you know, sort of not pain management but just whatever.
But how about your mind?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I think that you know, it's weird when you don't
have control of your body, because you know there's like
physical changes, like if you know, there was a period
in time where after my brain surgeries, I gained forty
pounds and that was really hard on my mental health.
I didn't recognize myself in the mirror. And then there
you know, there then there is just like that feeling
(24:47):
of watching everyone else's lives progress and mine just stay
that the same. And I sort of felt like I
was behind on life compared to all of my peers.
But I've worked with a really good therapist who specializes
in dealing with patients with chronic illnesses, and that has
helped so much. And just like and I accepting and
(25:10):
really trying to prioritize what's important to me, And I
like to talk to myself the way that a friend
would talk to me.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, I love that. That's great. And then how much
has datability sort of given you, like sort of a
new purpose essentially, you know what I'm saying, Like, forget
about the success, forget about the potential. Just even finding
something like this, it's that has been game changing.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah. Absolutely, I really struggled with with my identity before this.
I was like, I, I've identified as disabled, but I
didn't feel like I had that any of that community connection.
And through Datability, I have found that. And then just
like if yeah, waking up every day and feeling like
I have built something that helps people find love and
(26:04):
connection and that I'm working towards like this attainable goal
and creating this company that I mean, I would never
be able to do this if I worked for someone else.
It's only possible that we created it together and that
were our own bosses.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
This is awesome. So go through the steps I want
to hear about sort of the inception of the idea.
And because you know, I'm you know, I'm an actor
and I make movies and I produce and do but
I have a very entrepreneurial spirit when I was a kid.
I was always trying to make money. Now ninety nine
percent of it was illegal, selling fake ID, selling weed,
(26:42):
like doing all kinds of crazy shit. But I just
had this, you know, desire to sort of figure shit
out and make money, and I know how, and I
still do. I get stuck though, because it's hard. Going
from concept to actually putting Intoto motion is not an
easy thing, especially when you're dealing with tech like this.
So give me the give me the overall the inception
(27:04):
of the idea and how you went about making it happen.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
We knew nothing about tech. Imagine that control V is
how you paste something without right cooking.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
So I know right and control c's how you copy
it too. I know that too.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So but Jackolm was getting a feeding too, but I
don't think you mentioned that, and because she has gastro
prisis one of her diagnoses, and we both freaked out,
Like I was like, what does this mean? What does
this mean for us? If I want to go to brunch, whatever,
come with me. And so I was like, it's time
to make the safe space that you've been wanting and
looking for, because you know we're in the pandemic dating
(27:41):
is tough already, this is it's about to get tougher.
And I googled how to build an app? Google anything right,
and it brought me to a website where engineers and
coders like almost like a Craigslist, and I found someone
who was in the hometown of my alma mater who's disabled,
(28:01):
so I thought it was Kissman. I'm like, oh great,
this is amazing. We spent nine months working on the app.
We drew everything from pen to paper. Jack put it
on the computer, we sent it to him. We get
the real beta version, and Jaquelin just cries, we're eating
high food. I remember vividly tears just coming down. It's
so bad. So I probably, even with my control V knowledge,
(28:26):
I could have made it better.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
You just take control V a million times and something
would come out.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
But and so Jack I wanted to give up. She
was like, I can't do this. She was like I
don't and I said no, Let's just give it some time.
And I posted on a Facebook startup group in Boulder,
like does anyone know anything about building an app? Because
I'm lost? And we reached. We got contacted by consultants
who build an app, and they created our MVP for
(28:54):
US and a couple iterations after that, and we launched
six months later, Yeah, six months later, and now we
have an in house tech team that does it for
you know, Sweat Equity, and we just launched a subscription model.
And our saving grace has been the press we've gotten,
which is all Jacqueline pretty much, because we don't have
(29:15):
any funding. You know, funding is really hard for female founders,
and it's hard for disability people don't get that disabled
people want to be intimate and they want a relationship
and they totally can. I think there's some stereotypes about
when you think of someone who's disabled and they just
try to infantilize them. And so that's been our hurdle.
Even though we have a lot of success stories on
(29:36):
our app, it's still something that we have to jump through.
I hope we have to jump through with VCS. Yeah.
So we we didn't have any experience, like Lexa said,
but we went with our gut. That was the most
important thing is that we just were like, I think
this is how you would do it, and this is
how what our people would like, and I think that
(29:58):
this is a good idea. And we never we never
strayed from our intuition and that has really helped us.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
How did you guys design? Did you do all the
designing on the on the app?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, and and you know, definitely we can improve that,
but for now it's it's worked, and it's you know,
people really like it. We took our favorite aspects from
the other dating apps and added in our own. And
then like each section on the profile has a data
bloody deeps section is a list of terms like they're
very vague, so wheelchair user and you know, compromise food
(30:33):
allergy and that kind of solves that disclosure problem that
Jacqueline experienced and so many other people experience. And I knew,
we knew we wanted to have that section, but we
wanted to make it sound more fun well not a
medical chart, and so with the deep section. So yeah,
we just tried to add our own flare but create
the app that we would want if we were you know,
(30:55):
which for Jacqueline. Yes, we were building it for her.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So we'll explain the interface. I mean, you know, it
is it you You kind of did a little bit,
but sort of you log on, you create a profile
similar to sort of other dating apps, you know, with
pictures and you know all the stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, absolutely, and like and if if you've been on
any other dating app, you will pretty much know how
to use datability because we wanted it to be akin
to those apps.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Mm hmm. And Alexa, do you have a boyfriend?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
No, I'm a loan bolf.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Are you on dating apps?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
No? I'm really like a lone wolf. It's so funny
that people like, I'm like, I'm the founder and CEO
of a dating app and I don't date and I
haven't dated in years. Eventually, one day, No, she'll meet
like a random person for two minutes, and then they'll
find her on Instagram and mess and DM her and
be like do you want to go out with me?
And then then they will just like stock Lexa for
(31:51):
a year until she just never answers.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
And what about you, Jacqueline, are you on your app?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:01):
I am, but how has it gone?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I'm doing it on my own terms, which is really nice. Like,
I'm single because I want to be, and being a
CEO has proven to be very time consuming, so I'm
excited to like, actually, you know, get my toes wet
when I want. But you know that day will come.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
And how's the feedback bent? Just generally, First of all,
how long have you guys been? You know?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Up, we're approaching our two year October twenty first, twenty
twenty two is when we wished, and the feedback has
been good. We do all the customer support, which I
don't think people realize, and there's a lot of mean
people out there, so we do and I'm just like, ouch.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well that's good. That's a good question. Actually everything's always positive,
which of course we should be. But what would have
been some of the negatives? You know, what are the
things you need to improve on?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Oh? I think can I? So a lot of things
for the disability community are charity or nonprofit oriented, so
we get pushed to become a nonprofit a lot, and
I'm like, no, we're not going to do that. But
the other thing is when we release our subscription model,
which is four ninety nine a month, we wanted to
make it accessible economically financially. We got pushback from people
(33:23):
thinking that everything should be free, right, and so we've
got messages telling us in all caps that we suck.
We discussed them, like really intense messages for all for
less than a month.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I'm just like, well, because because they think they're making
money off of the disabled, right, I mean that's right,
but a.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
While having a free version, yeah right, free version. So
I'm just like, what do you how do you expect
us to pay for the server costs if we don't
start charging? You know, we've we've done this for two
years for her free and tried to build goodwill with
the community. But like at a certain point, like Jacqueline
deserves and I deserve to have financial stability, and we
deserve to keep datability going.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Of course, there's a narrative there that needs to be
created that Jacqueline, who is one of the founders and
CEOs of this, has come up with this idea because
she herself has been through the fucking ringer and not
a lot of people in the disabled community maybe have
an opportunity to do something like this. And she's a
business woman and she's creating, you know, a life for
(34:25):
herself where and it's giving her it's given her purpose,
you know what I mean. Like, I hate that's crazy,
I know, but.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
We try to laugh about it.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, roll eyes, And I know what you have to
do because there's a million everyone's an asshole. You know
what I mean, there's a millionhole.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Like you look at like comments on everything, like people
everyone's mean. People behind a keyboard will say whatever like yeah,
look at Reddit, our Instagram comments like not about us,
but right in general it's I mean, yeah, but the
feedback has been good and you've had a lot of
success raise, which in all honesty surprises me for such
(35:03):
a short amount of time. And our user base is smaller,
and what I've realized is that we're kind of recreating
dating the way it used to be when our parents
and grandparents were dating. Smaller community. My issue with the
dating apps is that there's so many options in it
daunting overwhelming, like finding a needle in a haystack and this.
But if you go to an event or a volunteer organization,
(35:23):
you're brought together by some commonality, right, and you have
less options. And I sometimes think that's good. I think
quality over quantity is key, and I think that our
success stories are proof of that.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, no, that's great, it's so true. I like that idea.
It's a smaller community. It's like a smaller pool. It
is more intimate essentially, you know, yeah, where are you
guys living now?
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Denver?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
You're in Denver, You're still in Colorado? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, I came back after eight years out east.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Where were you east?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, Massachusetts and DC, and then I was like, I'm
out of here.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I love Colorado US too.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's special, it really really is. I tried to leave
for college, but then I came back after a year
and I haven't left. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
So what is your funding situation? You know, are you
are you just sweat equity funding? Are these people just
working for you for free? Do you have an infusion
of capital that you're having to deal with.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, we're we're you know, our engineers are in it
as partners and so we're really grateful for that and
they believe in us. But know, we have a few
angel investors, but the most most of it has just
been like we're working our butts off with as many
free opportunity as we can. Like we don't pick for
(36:43):
pr We do it ourselves. You know, we'll go to
conferences and speak at them to just like get the
word out and so yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
But so you need But do you want you want
an investment? Basically?
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, yeah, you know sometimes I think right kind of
investors of course, Yeah, is what I try to look
at is that you know, these vcs that we approach
that don't that want us to be a strictly platonic
app for friendship app. They don't want the dating aspect,
They're not going to be a good fit. So I
don't want their money because if you can't understand our
mission and understand the community. One in four people have
(37:18):
a disability in the United States and the world, and
so it's not niche like, there's a lot of people
out there who have a disability get married or hook
up or whatever, and so yeah, it has to be
the right funding for us. Yeah, we find better luck
with angel investors. They just have like more trust.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, But so how do you stilter people?
I mean, what if I want to go on there,
you know what I mean and and sort of peruse Yeah,
can can? Can? Can anyone go on? And you know
what I'm saying, Like, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, we allow non disabled people to join, and you
know a lot of there are non disabled people on
there have some sort of connection, whether it's through their
work or through a family member, and so it's disability
is just like a normal thing. It's just like another
app that they may join. And yeah, we you know,
(38:13):
we work really hard to make sure that the app
is safe. We have profile verifications, we have you know,
a limited vetting process where we just make sure that
a profile checks out and there's nothing offensive on there.
But yeah, we we welcome everyone whose values align with databilities.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Well, you guys, this is awesome. I mean, I think
you're doing amazing stuff. I mean, there's so many things
that are incredible, just even your relationship you guys living together.
You know, Alexa, you know you you got to find
a dude, but we'll talk about that later. And then
Jacqueline like just you know again, it's inspirational on so
(38:56):
many different levels. Honestly, just the strength that you have
to sort of move forward and the idea that not
everything happens for a reason, but you create a reason
for the shit that happens, you know what I mean.
I think that's an important message.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, and I think that I just want people out
there to know that, you know, we we're really hard
on ourselves and we don't give ourselves as much credit,
but like we are humans and we're adaptable, and if
disability or when disability affects your life or ch chronic
illness affects your life, You too can move forward. It
(39:33):
just could take some time, but it's possible.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, and Alexi, good on you taking care of your girl.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
She's easy. The joke was always like, when I would
go on dates, I'd be like, my sister can't get
a date. But she's the easier sister. I'm annoying and
she here to deal with, so it's easy and she
is super self sufficient, so it's like every other relationship.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
But then, yeah, well, you guys are both going to
find love and it's going to be beautiful. It's gonna
work out. And then if any vcs, if any money
people are listening to this, the right kind of investor,
get a hold of my girls and give them fucking
money so they can pull this thing up. I appreciate
(40:24):
you guys, Thank you so much. Same and maybe I'll
run into you in the big state of Colorado if
you're ever an Aspen. By the way, this whole tell
your right Aspen thing, you know, the veil Aspen thing,
you know. I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
No, we're all friends, we're all friends, They're all different.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Aspen hates veil Veil hates Aspen. You know, Aspen is
an amazing valley, Okay, because I get it, by the way,
I went to elementary school there. I've been there since
the eighties. I get that Aspen is like this she
she sort of tip of the valley insanity. It's it
can be very fun, by the way, but as you
move down valley to Glenwood Springs your movie, it's a
(41:01):
beautiful forty three forty four miles because it's got all
of it, you know what I mean. But there's this rivalry.
By the way, tell you ride is amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, it's beautiful. Asthen's beautiful. I always think about living
in Glenwood or Carbondale.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, carbon Carbondale's amazing. By the way, don't go to Glenwood.
Carbondale's come up carbons snelly from the spring at Yeah. No,
Carbondale's an amazing spot.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, it's grown a lot in a good way. Actually,
oh yeah, it's yeah. Do you just eat?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Oh yeah. Since I was a baby, all my whole
family skis. They tried snowboarding. My kids. I made them
become great skiers, Like we want a snowboard. I'm like, no, no, no,
you were going to learn to skier ass off, and
then you can snowboard. So they became proficient skiers. All right,
you can snowboard. And they got on the snowboards. They
(41:57):
did it for like a minute, likeah, we're going to
God damn.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Sorry. I wanted a snowboard because the hot guys were snowboarders. Yeah,
so I was like, okay, I'm going to start to snowboard.
I broke my wrist and I was like, forget this,
like I've been seeing since I was two.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
What am I doing? Yeah? And by the way, now
the hot guys are scars too, I know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
They all just they all looked like dad's and.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Now they're exactly exactly. We'll come up, come ski in
the winter. I'll be there in December, all right, Yeah,
we'll be there. But I appreciate you guys. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, I wish you the best of luck. This is
really fun.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
All right, later, guys. What an inspiration man, Jacqueline, jeez,
It's just that was me. I don't know if I
make it, and if I make it, I don't know.
I mean, I uh, I get like a cold or
a fever, and I think it's the end, you know
what I mean, I'm like, oh my god, I have
(43:01):
like back pain and I'm like, I'm die. I mean,
I'm a bit of hypochondriacal, but just to be able
to push through life like that, knowing that this is
chronic pain, this pain is never going away, and to
(43:24):
be positive. Now, look, there's no doubt that there's moments
it has to be. But what a team. What a team,
What an inspirational team. I wish them the best. All right,
I gotta go. I'm starving. I love you all. Peace
A
Hi, I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Railval No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Revelry. That's good, Oliver Hudson. Here back live. It's not live. Well,
it's live. It's live for me because I'm talking right
now in real time. It's not live for you because
(00:55):
you're listening to it weeks after days. I don't know
when they're gonna enough about me. Let's bring on Alexa
and Jacqueline Child. Of course, there's a million dating sites now,
there's whatever, Tinder, Rayah, Bumble, Hazelnut, you know, Blueberry Hill.
I don't know. There's a million different names. I have
no idea what they are. I'm not all on them.
(01:16):
But this is very specific where you know, it's a
dating app for well, she has I think I think
it's Jacqueline has chronic illness and she, you know, has
been experiencing this for a minute now, and and she
has this disability. To create a dating app for people
(01:38):
with disabilities, it's interesting anyway, bring them on why am
I talking? Let's let them talk. Hey, guys, how are
you good? How I'm good? This is so interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, let's let's start not right now, Let's not start here,
Let's start elsewhere. So for how old are you? Guys?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm thirty four and I'm thirty.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I explain to me. First of all, Jacqueline explained, sort of,
you know your journey, you know how this came about
for you, you know when sort of these disabilities started
to happen in your life. How dating was the inspiration
behind this? Because this is very cool.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
All right. So the story starts when I was about fourteen,
and I was seemingly healthy, didn't know that my genetics
were super messed up, and I contracted a virus WANO,
also known as the kissing disease. Had it had every
fourteen year old girl.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I had it New Year's Eve, Vail, Colorado on a
bus eight. I was some girl. Yeah. Ruin ruined me
for like three months, Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's same, and ever since that, I just never fully recovered.
And then things really began to spiral out of control.
And I learned that I was, you know, predisposed to
a bunch of other illnesses, and so from that point on,
in my freshman year of high school, I was now
(03:10):
dealing with all these chronic illnesses. And you know, I've
had over forty surgeries in my lifetime, like two brain surgeries,
open heart surgery, literally from my head to my toes,
and that has been something that I really you know,
struggled with, but like have been able to manage fine.
I cope with it really well. You also parted your hair, Yeah,
(03:31):
you lost like the top strip of her hair in
high school and the boys would call her raggedy ann
very very sweet. But you know, my dating life was
like very typical in high school. I had a long
term boyfriend and I dated and so on. But then
once I graduated college and moved in with Alexa, I
joined the dating apps and realized that, you know, the
(03:54):
guys were really really harsh about me having chronic illnesses.
If it if I tried to hide it and it
would come up, it would be terrible. If I told
them straight off the bat, it would be terrible. And
people would tell me that I was a burden that
they didn't really want to deal with this extra stress
of having to worry about someone who was in and
out of surgeries. They told me not to have biological
(04:16):
children because I could pass on my genetics. And so
this just happened like over and over again. And meanwhile Alexa,
my big older sister, was like, guys were begging her
to date, like they were just like let me. She
would she would reject them right off the bat, and
they would be like, no, please, just give me a chance.
(04:37):
I was embarrassing. I resented her and it was really
hard to get through. I was just like, why can't
I get one first date? And then we came up
with creating datability because we just figured that there had
to be a place out there for people like me
to date. Who know, I could meet people who could
relate to me and I don't have to live this
(05:00):
pressure filled life of having to explain myself.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Wow, a lot to unpack. First of all, datability incredible name.
Thank you man who came up with it. Really good,
really really really good. Okay, hold on, I gotta go back.
So forty surgeries. That's gnarly. The fortitude that you must
(05:24):
have to be smiling and to be powering through your life,
not only that, but also using it to create something.
Not only that could be extremely successful and make you
a billion dollars, but also to help everyone else who
might be going through your situation is completely admirable. I mean,
like I have like a little anxiety. Okay, it's crazy.
(05:50):
It's crazy to the world for me. Yeah, So let
me ask you a question. Do you think this is
kind of a philosophical or deeper question but not really,
But do you think that certain people are able to
handle these kinds of obstacles and setbacks and some people aren't.
Or do you think that the human condition is such
(06:13):
that when these things happened to you, the body, the mind,
the emotion goes into a place where it's fight or
flight in the sense of it's survival or are you
just conditioning or is this just your genetics the good
part of your genetics.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think it's a little bit of both. I have
always had this like attitude where I never complained as
a child, Like as a healthy child, if I would
break my wrist, I'd be like, I think something's wrong.
Should we should check that out? And they'd be like, oh, yeah,
your wrist is shattered, and so I And I was
always like a pretty happy child, really smiling and Bubbly
(06:54):
is like a teacher's pet. And then when this all
happened to me, I everything was out of my control.
So I was like, is in my control? It's how
I react to all of this. And you know, I
mental health is really not a lot of people's choice,
but for me, I feel like making it a choice
has really helped me get there. And there's definitely parts
(07:18):
of my life that you know, I was really down
in the dumps and had to seek help. But I
truly try to look on the bright side of everything.
And I and I don't believe everything happens for a reason,
but I believe that there's a you can find a
reason in every experience. That I agree, and so I
just like I do, think it's both. I've been able
(07:39):
to adapt and it honestly, sometimes it's a negative thing
because I I sometimes don't take things like as seriously.
If someone comes to me with a problem, I'm like,
you'll be fine, It's it's not the end of the world.
Or like, even with my own health, there's been moments
where I'm you know, I ended up having a blood
(08:00):
clot like eighteen inches long in my body and I
almost didn't go to the hospital because I thought it
was just my normal pain that I was dealing with
and that I would be fine, And I ended up
Alexa convinced me to go. I bullied you it should.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Go, oh oh really going?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And they were like, if you hadn't come in, you
would have been dead in twenty four hours. And so
there's there's definitely pros and cons. But yeah, I just
I do my best to put on a brave face
and smile every day. And she's being truthful because the
reasons why I didn't like her when we were younger
the reasons why I love her now. The positivity.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Dark totally. Is that So you've been moving back further
in the timeline. Is that how sort of you guys
grew up? I mean, I know four your difference is
pretty decent, you know what I mean, that's pretty big.
So Jack, you would just just rat out your sister.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, And I'll let you tell that because unately you were,
you were victimized. Yeah. I was not the happiest child,
and I it was okay, was in school, I was
did well. Yeah, but I was not the happiest kid
and it only got worse with hormones. But Chapmen loved
to wrap me out any little thing, any discrepancy. I
(09:18):
was always grounded, always in high school. And I think
you're better about catching yourself now, but I still find
you sometimes like you just like to share things with
our parents, And I'm like, why would you say that.
I don't don't tell them that. Yeah, and I'm with
a secret keeper, like the mischievous one. But it was
we fought a lot when we were younger, because four years.
(09:38):
When you're younger now it's like no big like we're
in the our thirties thing. But when you're younger, when
I'm sixteen, and I'm all I can think about is
like partying and boys. She's twelve. Yeah, I mean, what
what is a twelve year old going to do when
she's going through her closet and finds a backpack full
of like ten empty champagne bottles. I freaked out and
(09:59):
I was like, mom, Alex problem.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Oh my god. I know. So it was coming from
a good place, or was it?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It always does comes from a good place, all right.
It came from a place of me really wanting to
hang out with her. So I figured that if she
was grounded, that's all she would get to do is
hang out with.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Me, and it backfired no, of course, because you're like,
fuck you are you crazy? Yeah, you're killing me right now.
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I was like the biggest buzzkill for your tidenage years.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well, Kate, I mean, Kate used to tattle on me
like nuts, and it was similar. I was sort of
she wasn't teacher's petty, but she was just so big.
That's why she's you know, famous and a great actor
and all that stuff. But she was like look at
me and dancing and don and then hey, mom, look
ing singing. I'm like, Kate, just fucking calm down, you
(11:01):
know what I mean, just pull it back a little
bit here, you know. And then I'd like tripper pusher this,
and like, oh pleasure. But then one day she got
in trouble for tattling, and I was like.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yes, I wish that would happen to you. I did
get in trouble because I broke lets's finger. Her pain
what now, I know we were so we grew up
and tell your ride and I know you're cool, you know,
little competition between you're part of the state in hours,
(11:37):
but so we're on vacation and Alexaid asked me to
get the shampoo for her. She was in the shower
and she all she needed to do is like reach
out of the shower curtain and grab it. And uh,
I was busy playing doing something and and she said,
you know you're you're being the biggest bitch ever. And
(11:58):
I flip went into the shower and I said, you
want your shampoo. And I grabbed her hands and I
pushed her pinky all the way back and I broke.
She goes out screaming, like with her hair full of shampoo.
And I do believe I got scolded, but I don't
think you got in trouble the way I would have
gotten in trouble. I also got in trouble for calling
(12:19):
me a bit.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, of course, Oh my gosh. We need to talk
to your parents and figure this out.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
You know, you should see them now. Though they're so
happy that we're best friends, we live together, which would
have thought that, and we've lived together for like seven
or seven years.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Oh my god, that's amazing. I mean, that happens, you know,
I mean, my sister and I talk about on this
podcast all the time, where you know, you know, we
came from a product of divorce, and so there was
a lot of you know, a little bit of chaos
and just trying to figure out a lot of shit.
But we weren't best of friends at all.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
And then even in high school, she would bug me,
she wanted to hook up with my friends, be with
my hanging on my door knob, like all of our
let me come in. I'm like, hey, leave me the
fuck alone. And then that switched, you know, and I
when when you know, I went to college and I
was nineteen coming home, and you know, I was like, oh,
Carla looks good, Like Kate, let me come in your room.
She's like, all of her leave me alone. You know.
(13:16):
So it was it was it was like that. And
then only in our later years she got married and
she did this, and only in her later years did
we really sort of reconnect and become best of friends.
That happens, you know, It's okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I mean, it really gives us a lot of good
memories to talk about. I mean, we were we were
definitely close, but we fought so much where like any
little thing would tip us over, you know, like if
you're we would be on the air on an airplane,
and she'd be reading her magazine, and if my eyes
just glanced over at her magazine while she was reading it,
(13:52):
she would be get so mad at me. She'd be
like obsessed with me. Now now she used the one
inviting me to everything.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
She's like, come out, Yeah, is there anything in your
childhood that you remember specifically or when you were, you know,
a crazy teenager or whatever that you that you tattled
on where it was monumental where it was just like,
holy shit, I cannot believe you just ratted me out.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
This champagne bottle almost pretty bad. Yeah, because I was
a senior. I was already going to college, like I
got accepted to college. I knew I was, and so
I couldn't believe that I was getting in trouble for
this because like in six months, just like I'm going
to be in college and what do you think I'm
going to be doing there? And I don't even think
And I think it was bad for our family because
I'm not even sure our mom like really knew what
(14:43):
to do with it either, because she's like, yeah, you're
leaving for college, like I think I'm going even been
like eighteen, So she's like, well, shit, like do I
ground her? Do I knock around her? And she's like, well,
she's drinking in my house. I guess I have to
ground her. But we were all kind of like what
it was bad? Yeah, there's been I'm trying to think
of other times I've never gotten you in trouble.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
No, well, because it seems like Jacqueline doesn't get in trouble.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
No, that's not true. But I calls me. She called
me a sympathetic character.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, right, so you can do no wrong because you
just hear you just there's so much you want to
I got it well when you were fourteen when this
all started to happen, and Alexa like, how did you
(15:34):
deal with that? Now? You were what eighteen at the time.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, I was a sophomore in college, like by the
time this. So she got mona at fourteen and this
started happening the next year, I would say, right, And
so I was a sophomore in college and I went
back east. I was in college in Massachusetts, and so
I was really disconnected from what was going on. My
mom would call me crying, saying that they can't figure
out what's wrong with her. But I think it was
(15:57):
the beginning of us becoming closer. I think that it
grounded you to a little bit. It made you more
real and dare I say, imperfect? And so that actually
brought us closer.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Right yeah. And then as it continued on, you know,
you just got closer and closer. And then at what
point did you sort of were you there by your
sister's side a lot? You know what I mean? At
some point it was because you're in college, and then
it's like, oh shit, this is real, this isn't just
(16:31):
like mono, and then something else, this is snarly.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, and that probably changed when I was in law school,
I think is when it became really real and he
started having major surgeries. But my pain in the ass
aspects of myself actually make me a good advocate for Jacqueline.
So we'll be when she had hurt surgery, we were
in the hospital and they wanted to give her tail
in all after and I was like, absolutely, like, she's
in pain, she needs more than tail and all. I
(16:56):
will stand up for her. I will make sure she
gets the care she needs. I will be there by
her side. And so the things that brought us apart
later earlier in life brought us together later in life
and had made me useful. Yeah, my chronic illness has
really brought our family together. Our dad has rheuma toward arthritis,
and one day he woke up and literally could not
(17:16):
get out of bed, and it was he went from
a very active, like professional equestrian life and an executive
at MasterCard to all of a sudden, just like literally
not being able to roll over in bed. And so
that first glimpse into chronic illness. But it's different when
you're you're in your forties and fifties and you're the parent,
(17:38):
you're you know, you're that's just then the natural progression
of things. But when I got sick, it was it
really did a number on our family and it you know,
all of our trips would revolve around me getting medical care,
so we would you know, be traveling all over the
country and that was it was hard and it was
a big strain. And I think that it's there's like
(17:59):
a phenomenon called the last child phenomenon, and that's when
there's a sibling of a disabled or a sick child,
and a lot of times the siblings feel feel like
they're you know, they're invisible and you can see right
them and they don't get as much attention. And I
think in the beginning that was that was definitely the
case with Alexa. And just like my parents didn't have
(18:20):
that capacity to make sure she had all of her
needs taken care of. They were like, she's in college,
she's independent, she's got this. But then as as we
got more used to me being disabled, my parents have
really been been sure to like make sure Alexa's needs
are taking care of just as much as mine.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, it's interesting doing how how was that, Alexa? I mean,
I've I've never heard the actual term, but I understand
what that is, you know, I mean, did you feel
neglected or did you understand the situation?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Not really, I think I understood. I am fiercely independent,
like I was that kindergarten carnin Are on the first
aid school. That was like peace and then turned never
looked back, right, like I'm just walked to school. That's
the way I always was. And so I didn't really
I wasn't really bothered by it. I think sometimes there
would be important events like an award ceremony in college
and my mom wouldn't be able to go. But I
(19:14):
but I also was like, well, She's also in high school,
so like sickness or not, she might not have been
able to go. I just chopped it up to that
or her friends asking how Jacqueline is. They didn't ask
about me, but I'm like whatever, Like it's fine for once,
I'm not getting in trouble, so we're all good. Knock arounded.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And then Jacqueline, you know, not to get too far
into and you can talk about as much as you want,
but you know, when you're talking about forty surgeries, how
does something like mono all of a sudden devolve into this?
Is this is this sort of an autoimmune situation that
just it's like a ravaging Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So it start out with like this, a diagnosis of POTS,
which has been in the news a lot lately because
it's also a lot of people who have had COVID
also end up with POTS. And it was a you
know that if it had stopped there, it would have
been okay and manageable, and I probably would have had
(20:12):
a very different life. But it uncovered a bunch of
things that I had already had. I had no idea
that I had a congenital heart defect, and it wasn't
until I was like twenty three that I found out
that my aorta goes the completely wrong way and they
had to go fix that. Like, I have a lot
(20:34):
of congenital issues that happened, connective tissue stuff, and so
it did. It triggered some sort of autoimmune aunts where
now I have lupus and rheumatoid arthritis and immuno deficiency issues.
So it's been Yeah, I see a lot of doctors
in my medical binders are inches thick.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, So what's your day to day? You know? What
I mean? Is our good days bad days? Is that
kind of how it works?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I say, there's bad days and then there's worse days.
I live at a really high pain level, of high
fatigue level, but I try to get out as like
as do as much as I can. You know, I
have a dog that I will walk every single day.
I there have been years that I have been more
isolated and been a hermit. But and that was like
(21:22):
in my mind to protect my physicality. But I realize
that it doesn't matter if I sit at home all
day or if I go to a concert, Like the
end result is pretty much the same. I'm gonna be
in pain. So I I got to just live my
life and have to.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
So you're essentially in pain as we speak, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
All the time, which I gus, I can't grasp like
I can't.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I can't even now, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I think we had a conversation the today where we
were both we have had a crazy day and the
next day I got so I was exhaustive and then
I get sleep and I wake up and I feel normal. Right,
So you don't feel normal right now, like you're not
back to baseline. And she was like explaining to me
how it works, and it Yeah, I still can't fully
wrap my head around.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Because baseline is just like what you said, baseline is
just not a ton of pain, but just pain. Yeah,
And so like right now, where where where do you hurt?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
My I have a lot of joint pain and so
like my lower back, my knees, my fingers, neck, mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And how do you how do you mitigate the pain?
You know? Is it just through drugs? You know?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Through yeah, pain management management team. You know, I'm not
afraid of medication. I definitely will experiment with things with
like obviously with my doctors and try to do that.
You know, yesterday I had a six hour long infusion,
(22:49):
so a lot of and then a lot of just
like lifestyle things like I do try to listen to
my body as much as I can.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And then is this a lifelong journey?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah? Yeah, I don't think. I think that there's you know,
my mom is really hell bent on like fixing me
and fixing my chronic illnesses. And she is the person
who's always researching drug comes out and she's like, let's
let's try this.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And stem cells and all that.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, and I understand that, but I don't see a
world in which like my pain and my illnesses are
totally cured. I mean, nothing that I deal with has
any sort of cure. But I will I'll never stop trying.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, let me ask a question. Do you think hope
can be detrimental in that? In that aspect? Yeah, know
what I mean, Like hope is obviously a very positive word, right,
It's like hope, we have hope, we have hope, But
sometimes hope can sort of lead to non acceptance essentially
that one.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Hundred you're living in denial. Yeah, right. I keep low
expectations and that's really helped me, Like if I if
I try this, like I'm not expecting to feel better
at all. If I do, it's a great plus. But
I don't go into anything thinking that it's going to
be a game changer.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Mm hmm. And what about mental health for you and
how you've dealt with that through the years, you know
where you said, you know you're a hermit for sort
of you know, sort of not pain management but just whatever.
But how about your mind?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I think that you know, it's weird when you don't
have control of your body, because you know there's like
physical changes, like if you know, there was a period
in time where after my brain surgeries, I gained forty
pounds and that was really hard on my mental health.
I didn't recognize myself in the mirror. And then there
you know, there then there is just like that feeling
(24:47):
of watching everyone else's lives progress and mine just stay
that the same. And I sort of felt like I
was behind on life compared to all of my peers.
But I've worked with a really good therapist who specializes
in dealing with patients with chronic illnesses, and that has
helped so much. And just like and I accepting and
(25:10):
really trying to prioritize what's important to me, And I
like to talk to myself the way that a friend
would talk to me.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, I love that. That's great. And then how much
has datability sort of given you, like sort of a
new purpose essentially, you know what I'm saying, Like, forget
about the success, forget about the potential. Just even finding
something like this, it's that has been game changing.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah. Absolutely, I really struggled with with my identity before this.
I was like, I, I've identified as disabled, but I
didn't feel like I had that any of that community connection.
And through Datability, I have found that. And then just
like if yeah, waking up every day and feeling like
I have built something that helps people find love and
(26:04):
connection and that I'm working towards like this attainable goal
and creating this company that I mean, I would never
be able to do this if I worked for someone else.
It's only possible that we created it together and that
were our own bosses.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
This is awesome. So go through the steps I want
to hear about sort of the inception of the idea.
And because you know, I'm you know, I'm an actor
and I make movies and I produce and do but
I have a very entrepreneurial spirit when I was a kid.
I was always trying to make money. Now ninety nine
percent of it was illegal, selling fake ID, selling weed,
(26:42):
like doing all kinds of crazy shit. But I just
had this, you know, desire to sort of figure shit
out and make money, and I know how, and I
still do. I get stuck though, because it's hard. Going
from concept to actually putting Intoto motion is not an
easy thing, especially when you're dealing with tech like this.
So give me the give me the overall the inception
(27:04):
of the idea and how you went about making it happen.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
We knew nothing about tech. Imagine that control V is
how you paste something without right cooking.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
So I know right and control c's how you copy
it too. I know that too.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So but Jackolm was getting a feeding too, but I
don't think you mentioned that, and because she has gastro
prisis one of her diagnoses, and we both freaked out,
Like I was like, what does this mean? What does
this mean for us? If I want to go to brunch, whatever,
come with me. And so I was like, it's time
to make the safe space that you've been wanting and
looking for, because you know we're in the pandemic dating
(27:41):
is tough already, this is it's about to get tougher.
And I googled how to build an app? Google anything right,
and it brought me to a website where engineers and
coders like almost like a Craigslist, and I found someone
who was in the hometown of my alma mater who's disabled,
(28:01):
so I thought it was Kissman. I'm like, oh great,
this is amazing. We spent nine months working on the app.
We drew everything from pen to paper. Jack put it
on the computer, we sent it to him. We get
the real beta version, and Jaquelin just cries, we're eating
high food. I remember vividly tears just coming down. It's
so bad. So I probably, even with my control V knowledge,
(28:26):
I could have made it better.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
You just take control V a million times and something
would come out.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
But and so Jack I wanted to give up. She
was like, I can't do this. She was like I
don't and I said no, Let's just give it some time.
And I posted on a Facebook startup group in Boulder,
like does anyone know anything about building an app? Because
I'm lost? And we reached. We got contacted by consultants
who build an app, and they created our MVP for
(28:54):
US and a couple iterations after that, and we launched
six months later, Yeah, six months later, and now we
have an in house tech team that does it for
you know, Sweat Equity, and we just launched a subscription model.
And our saving grace has been the press we've gotten,
which is all Jacqueline pretty much, because we don't have
(29:15):
any funding. You know, funding is really hard for female founders,
and it's hard for disability people don't get that disabled
people want to be intimate and they want a relationship
and they totally can. I think there's some stereotypes about
when you think of someone who's disabled and they just
try to infantilize them. And so that's been our hurdle.
Even though we have a lot of success stories on
(29:36):
our app, it's still something that we have to jump through.
I hope we have to jump through with VCS. Yeah.
So we we didn't have any experience, like Lexa said,
but we went with our gut. That was the most
important thing is that we just were like, I think
this is how you would do it, and this is
how what our people would like, and I think that
(29:58):
this is a good idea. And we never we never
strayed from our intuition and that has really helped us.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
How did you guys design? Did you do all the
designing on the on the app?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, and and you know, definitely we can improve that,
but for now it's it's worked, and it's you know,
people really like it. We took our favorite aspects from
the other dating apps and added in our own. And
then like each section on the profile has a data
bloody deeps section is a list of terms like they're
very vague, so wheelchair user and you know, compromise food
(30:33):
allergy and that kind of solves that disclosure problem that
Jacqueline experienced and so many other people experience. And I knew,
we knew we wanted to have that section, but we
wanted to make it sound more fun well not a
medical chart, and so with the deep section. So yeah,
we just tried to add our own flare but create
the app that we would want if we were you know,
(30:55):
which for Jacqueline. Yes, we were building it for her.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So we'll explain the interface. I mean, you know, it
is it you You kind of did a little bit,
but sort of you log on, you create a profile
similar to sort of other dating apps, you know, with
pictures and you know all the stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, absolutely, and like and if if you've been on
any other dating app, you will pretty much know how
to use datability because we wanted it to be akin
to those apps.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Mm hmm. And Alexa, do you have a boyfriend?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
No, I'm a loan bolf.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Are you on dating apps?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
No? I'm really like a lone wolf. It's so funny
that people like, I'm like, I'm the founder and CEO
of a dating app and I don't date and I
haven't dated in years. Eventually, one day, No, she'll meet
like a random person for two minutes, and then they'll
find her on Instagram and mess and DM her and
be like do you want to go out with me?
And then then they will just like stock Lexa for
(31:51):
a year until she just never answers.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
And what about you, Jacqueline, are you on your app?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:01):
I am, but how has it gone?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I'm doing it on my own terms, which is really nice. Like,
I'm single because I want to be, and being a
CEO has proven to be very time consuming, so I'm
excited to like, actually, you know, get my toes wet
when I want. But you know that day will come.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
And how's the feedback bent? Just generally, First of all,
how long have you guys been? You know?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Up, we're approaching our two year October twenty first, twenty
twenty two is when we wished, and the feedback has
been good. We do all the customer support, which I
don't think people realize, and there's a lot of mean
people out there, so we do and I'm just like, ouch.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well that's good. That's a good question. Actually everything's always positive,
which of course we should be. But what would have
been some of the negatives? You know, what are the
things you need to improve on?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Oh? I think can I? So a lot of things
for the disability community are charity or nonprofit oriented, so
we get pushed to become a nonprofit a lot, and
I'm like, no, we're not going to do that. But
the other thing is when we release our subscription model,
which is four ninety nine a month, we wanted to
make it accessible economically financially. We got pushback from people
(33:23):
thinking that everything should be free, right, and so we've
got messages telling us in all caps that we suck.
We discussed them, like really intense messages for all for
less than a month.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I'm just like, well, because because they think they're making
money off of the disabled, right, I mean that's right,
but a.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
While having a free version, yeah right, free version. So
I'm just like, what do you how do you expect
us to pay for the server costs if we don't
start charging? You know, we've we've done this for two
years for her free and tried to build goodwill with
the community. But like at a certain point, like Jacqueline
deserves and I deserve to have financial stability, and we
deserve to keep datability going.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Of course, there's a narrative there that needs to be
created that Jacqueline, who is one of the founders and
CEOs of this, has come up with this idea because
she herself has been through the fucking ringer and not
a lot of people in the disabled community maybe have
an opportunity to do something like this. And she's a
business woman and she's creating, you know, a life for
(34:25):
herself where and it's giving her it's given her purpose,
you know what I mean. Like, I hate that's crazy,
I know, but.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
We try to laugh about it.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, roll eyes, And I know what you have to
do because there's a million everyone's an asshole. You know
what I mean, there's a millionhole.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Like you look at like comments on everything, like people
everyone's mean. People behind a keyboard will say whatever like yeah,
look at Reddit, our Instagram comments like not about us,
but right in general it's I mean, yeah, but the
feedback has been good and you've had a lot of
success raise, which in all honesty surprises me for such
(35:03):
a short amount of time. And our user base is smaller,
and what I've realized is that we're kind of recreating
dating the way it used to be when our parents
and grandparents were dating. Smaller community. My issue with the
dating apps is that there's so many options in it
daunting overwhelming, like finding a needle in a haystack and this.
But if you go to an event or a volunteer organization,
(35:23):
you're brought together by some commonality, right, and you have
less options. And I sometimes think that's good. I think
quality over quantity is key, and I think that our
success stories are proof of that.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, no, that's great, it's so true. I like that idea.
It's a smaller community. It's like a smaller pool. It
is more intimate essentially, you know, yeah, where are you
guys living now?
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Denver?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
You're in Denver, You're still in Colorado? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, I came back after eight years out east.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Where were you east?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, Massachusetts and DC, and then I was like, I'm
out of here.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I love Colorado US too.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's special, it really really is. I tried to leave
for college, but then I came back after a year
and I haven't left. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
So what is your funding situation? You know, are you
are you just sweat equity funding? Are these people just
working for you for free? Do you have an infusion
of capital that you're having to deal with.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, we're we're you know, our engineers are in it
as partners and so we're really grateful for that and
they believe in us. But know, we have a few
angel investors, but the most most of it has just
been like we're working our butts off with as many
free opportunity as we can. Like we don't pick for
(36:43):
pr We do it ourselves. You know, we'll go to
conferences and speak at them to just like get the
word out and so yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
But so you need But do you want you want
an investment? Basically?
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, yeah, you know sometimes I think right kind of
investors of course, Yeah, is what I try to look
at is that you know, these vcs that we approach
that don't that want us to be a strictly platonic
app for friendship app. They don't want the dating aspect,
They're not going to be a good fit. So I
don't want their money because if you can't understand our
mission and understand the community. One in four people have
(37:18):
a disability in the United States and the world, and
so it's not niche like, there's a lot of people
out there who have a disability get married or hook
up or whatever, and so yeah, it has to be
the right funding for us. Yeah, we find better luck
with angel investors. They just have like more trust.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, But so how do you stilter people?
I mean, what if I want to go on there,
you know what I mean and and sort of peruse Yeah,
can can? Can? Can anyone go on? And you know
what I'm saying, Like, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, we allow non disabled people to join, and you
know a lot of there are non disabled people on
there have some sort of connection, whether it's through their
work or through a family member, and so it's disability
is just like a normal thing. It's just like another
app that they may join. And yeah, we you know,
(38:13):
we work really hard to make sure that the app
is safe. We have profile verifications, we have you know,
a limited vetting process where we just make sure that
a profile checks out and there's nothing offensive on there.
But yeah, we we welcome everyone whose values align with databilities.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Well, you guys, this is awesome. I mean, I think
you're doing amazing stuff. I mean, there's so many things
that are incredible, just even your relationship you guys living together.
You know, Alexa, you know you you got to find
a dude, but we'll talk about that later. And then
Jacqueline like just you know again, it's inspirational on so
(38:56):
many different levels. Honestly, just the strength that you have
to sort of move forward and the idea that not
everything happens for a reason, but you create a reason
for the shit that happens, you know what I mean.
I think that's an important message.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, and I think that I just want people out
there to know that, you know, we we're really hard
on ourselves and we don't give ourselves as much credit,
but like we are humans and we're adaptable, and if
disability or when disability affects your life or ch chronic
illness affects your life, You too can move forward. It
(39:33):
just could take some time, but it's possible.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, and Alexi, good on you taking care of your girl.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
She's easy. The joke was always like, when I would
go on dates, I'd be like, my sister can't get
a date. But she's the easier sister. I'm annoying and
she here to deal with, so it's easy and she
is super self sufficient, so it's like every other relationship.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
But then, yeah, well, you guys are both going to
find love and it's going to be beautiful. It's gonna
work out. And then if any vcs, if any money
people are listening to this, the right kind of investor,
get a hold of my girls and give them fucking
money so they can pull this thing up. I appreciate
(40:24):
you guys, Thank you so much. Same and maybe I'll
run into you in the big state of Colorado if
you're ever an Aspen. By the way, this whole tell
your right Aspen thing, you know, the veil Aspen thing,
you know. I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
No, we're all friends, we're all friends, They're all different.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Aspen hates veil Veil hates Aspen. You know, Aspen is
an amazing valley, Okay, because I get it, by the way,
I went to elementary school there. I've been there since
the eighties. I get that Aspen is like this she
she sort of tip of the valley insanity. It's it
can be very fun, by the way, but as you
move down valley to Glenwood Springs your movie, it's a
(41:01):
beautiful forty three forty four miles because it's got all
of it, you know what I mean. But there's this rivalry.
By the way, tell you ride is amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, it's beautiful. Asthen's beautiful. I always think about living
in Glenwood or Carbondale.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, carbon Carbondale's amazing. By the way, don't go to Glenwood.
Carbondale's come up carbons snelly from the spring at Yeah. No,
Carbondale's an amazing spot.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, it's grown a lot in a good way. Actually,
oh yeah, it's yeah. Do you just eat?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Oh yeah. Since I was a baby, all my whole
family skis. They tried snowboarding. My kids. I made them
become great skiers, Like we want a snowboard. I'm like, no, no, no,
you were going to learn to skier ass off, and
then you can snowboard. So they became proficient skiers. All right,
you can snowboard. And they got on the snowboards. They
(41:57):
did it for like a minute, likeah, we're going to
God damn.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Sorry. I wanted a snowboard because the hot guys were snowboarders. Yeah,
so I was like, okay, I'm going to start to snowboard.
I broke my wrist and I was like, forget this,
like I've been seeing since I was two.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
What am I doing? Yeah? And by the way, now
the hot guys are scars too, I know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
They all just they all looked like dad's and.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Now they're exactly exactly. We'll come up, come ski in
the winter. I'll be there in December, all right, Yeah,
we'll be there. But I appreciate you guys. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, I wish you the best of luck. This is
really fun.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
All right, later, guys. What an inspiration man, Jacqueline, jeez,
It's just that was me. I don't know if I
make it, and if I make it, I don't know.
I mean, I uh, I get like a cold or
a fever, and I think it's the end, you know
what I mean, I'm like, oh my god, I have
(43:01):
like back pain and I'm like, I'm die. I mean,
I'm a bit of hypochondriacal, but just to be able
to push through life like that, knowing that this is
chronic pain, this pain is never going away, and to
(43:24):
be positive. Now, look, there's no doubt that there's moments
it has to be. But what a team. What a team,
What an inspirational team. I wish them the best. All right,
I gotta go. I'm starving. I love you all. Peace
A
Hosts And Creators
Oliver Hudson
Kate Hudson
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