May 13, 2025 • 33 mins
What’s the secret to lasting friendships? How does queer community show up through the ebbs and flows of life? And what’s the REAL story behind the “YMCA” song?
In the first episode of Silver Linings, The Old Gays dive into an essential part of queer life: chosen family. They discuss the vital love, support, and sense of belonging that community provides, especially during life's toughest moments. They open up about what “queer” means to them, how chosen family has impacted their lives, and how to maintain close bonds over time–including their love for each other! “We’ve come a long way, baby.” Family isn’t just what you’re born with; it’s the people who show up, shape you, and stick around.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Rube. Is it too loud? It is a little loud.
We like it. I like it. Give me my music.
Fucking shock that I had sex with my technology.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And thank goodness it wasn't a dinner, no no room.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, I'm not a slut like you, except on cruise ship.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
In the biggest flood in the.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Western Mediterranean, Doug Corral, guys, it's.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Like all the she was a bitch too. Oh that's
gonna get got God.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles and steamy
Palm Springs, California, It's Mick Robert Bill just say, and
this is Silver Riding.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
With the Old Gays.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
On our show. We'll bring you the wisdom from our
lives as four freedom loving gay men.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And share the silver linings we've collected along the way.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
After all, we weren't always old day and all I
can say is we've come a long way.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Baby oo.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Hi everyone, and welcome to the first ever episode of
Silver Linings with the Old Gays.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We are four senior friends from Cathedral City, California, and
one of our goals is to bring the differing generations
of queer people together as one community. I'd like to
introduce myself. I'm Mick Peterson and I'm known for both
(01:56):
being wild and wise.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
And I'm Robert Breathe and I'm the artistic one.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Hello, I'm Jesse Martin, I am Love.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Hi. This is Bill Lyons, and I'm the innocent looking one.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Looking you mean you're looking for innocent.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
No, I'm not innocent, but I'm innocent looking.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
That's the truth. How would you describe the Old Gays
for senior citizens gay who accidentally came together over the
years and spreads our wisdom and humored to the world.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
The Old Gays are a typical family. We fight, and
we laugh, and we love. We run away and then
we come right back home.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah. I would describe the Old Gays as a work
in progress and as a group. We're not afraid to
make fools of ourselves and that's part of our appeal.
If you've seen any of our dance videos, we want
to make you laugh.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Then it goes back over forty years to Bill and
I in San Francisco. We first met in the early eighties,
became friends, reconnected in the early two thousands when Bill
moved to the desert, and then next came Mick in
(03:36):
twenty thirteen when he answered a ad I was running
for a roommate in the house and that brought Mick
into the fold. And then around twenty fourteen, just Say
moved into the neighborhood and by eighteen he was part
(04:02):
of the group.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
This long format is a chance for us to really
connect more with our current audience and also to expand
our reach to the greater queer community throughout the world.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And I've never done a podcast before and I'm very
much looking forward to this.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, I mean it's really done in seven years, and
I think it is through those adventures and working on projects,
whether they be partnerships or our dance videos or travel,
that those experiences have helped to bond us closer together.
And I think it's that sort of message that we
(04:44):
want to convey to our audience as well. Again, we're
a chosen family, and that is, after all, what this
episode is about. I would describe chosen family as what
it is not. It is not your blood family. Sometimes
our friendships are thrust upon us due to circumstances really
(05:06):
beyond our control, and that we call fate. What does
chosen family mean to you?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
To me, chosen family is the closest thing you've got
to a real family when your family isn't around anymore.
And yes, you do choose them and you learn to
love them, you learn to trust them, you learn to
be there for them, and they're there for you.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
And I don't look at role play within a chosen
family the way one would do in a blood family,
whether it's patriarchal or maternal. There's no really titular head.
It kind of moves around.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yes, we all play every role in this. We can
be a mama, a daddy, a brother, a sister that
you create the families that you want to live your
life around.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
And for me, the chosen family is the old Gays
because I have gotten to love and respect these guys
very very much.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And it helps to be in the same neighborhood for
us too. It's been I mean, two minutes to work.
I've never had such a such a short commute.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Well, all the other guys live on the same street,
and I don't. I live down below them, so they
call me down the hill Bill. But I can be
summoned in ten minutes. And I think we would be
remiss and not mentioning Sean and Ryan, who are also
(06:50):
parts of our family, and they are more in that. Well, Ryan,
he's actually the one who first sparked the idea of
the ogays.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know, one of the other things that's a hallmark
of a chosen family is the distances involved and the
amount of work that it takes to maintain those friendships.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Now, how would you define the queer community and has
your perspective on community changed throughout different phases of your life.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, I see the definition of queer community has really
broadened substantially over the years. When I was younger, the
queer community was basically my male homosexual friends, people I
(07:45):
had met casually and otherwise. And I just see, probably
most symbolically, how the queer flag was created in the
Seven Days and how over the years the meaning behind
it has expanded.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I tell you, I have never experienced the queer community
seriously until I moved here, because they are all over
and this is my heaven on earth and I cannot
imagine living somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And just for our listeners of where.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Do we live, we live in Cathedral City, Cove, Palm Springs, California.
So you don't have to move here. We leve for
you to visit critically. For me, the definition of what
is queer has changed dramatically. When I first came out,
I thought it was just, you know, a binary thing.
(08:51):
But I over the last really ten to fifteen years,
have come to understand that what it means to be
queer is much more broad in scope. And I think
one of the beauties of our community is its embrace
of this change, of this greater diversity, And it is
(09:12):
our embrace of this change that now once again has
brought a really strong backlash against our rights, many of
the rights that we fought for and that we're not
going to give up. The queer community has changed over
the years because it's not passive. We used to accept
the fact that we were going to be arrested if
(09:34):
we were in a gay bar, and that was it,
and that we made sure that we had a lawyer
to make sure that our names were not printed in
the local paper.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
That kind of thing that existed. Then, you know the
fact that you could be thrown out of work, you
could be thrown out of your house, you could be stopped,
you could be arrested just simply for being in the
wrong place at the wrong time, with a place enclothesmen,
and you know, we send out our hearts and prayers
to our queer community who in many countries for your
(10:08):
being arrested or killed. And so though the times are precarious,
I also am really heartened by the fact that we
continue to grow and expand despite everything that's being thrown
against us.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
I totally agree with you, Rick. And one experience I
had when I was in a gay bar. I was nineteen,
but I had a fake ID, so I was I
was nervous anyway about that, and one of my friends
walked in, saw a buddy of his, went over and
shook hands and was immediately arrested and he lost his
(10:46):
job as a school teacher. And all I can say
is we've come a long way, baby. The gay community
is much bolder today than it was coming out in
Saint Louis. The gay community there literally hid itself and
(11:07):
stayed in the shadows and were forced by circumstances to
meet other gay people in park cruising and other forms
of back alley if you will meetings. But what really
was very noticeable to me and has left a lasting
(11:31):
impression is moving to San Francisco in nineteen eighty and
just by coincidence the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, how
the gay community came up with all kinds of ways
(11:51):
to support, raise funds, express outrage against the action of
society and government. So yes, there have been dramatic changes
over the years, and I recall recently seeing an article
(12:15):
that used the figure of twenty five percent of young
people now identify themselves as the broad definition of queer.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, Why do you think chosen family is so
central to queer life?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I can answer for myself only. It's important for me
because I don't want to be alone. I'm thinking now
I'm seventy one, and I think of dying, And luckily
I have an adopted little brother who is there for me,
has proven his love to me and flown out here
(12:52):
when I was sick. And that's what the family's about,
having someone there for me when I really need them.
You find out who you're real friends and chosen friends
are because they will reach out to you to make
sure that you're okay, and that's very important as a
single black man here.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Also, when I was coming out, I didn't have a
chosen family. In fact, I didn't even have any friends
or peers who were gay, and in high school I
had to act straight and all that. And today there
are so many things available to young people, like all
(13:35):
the high schools in the Coachella Valley here have straight
and gay alliances where it might not be a chosen family,
but it certainly someone who can answer your questions and
sets you straight about what's going on. Yes, the importance
of having a sounding board for your ideas, questions do
(13:58):
you have about yours that you can ask others and
knowing that they will give you constructive responses that help
you process what you're going through. And just to me,
the term ally is kind of a new term relative
(14:24):
to the gay community, which opens a whole vast amount
of people who do not have to be members of
the queer community, but yet be totally supportive of the
queer community.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
When I came out, which was in the nineteen seventies,
I had no other choice but to seek out friends.
And what was incredible was that when I did come out,
this is going to get me into trouble. But this
is the real reason why the song was written. It
was called the Ymca, But you've got to remember that
(15:05):
this was this is a song about gay liberation and
the fact that you can go to the YMCA, get
yourself clean and make a lot of new friends, especially
the YMCA in New York City.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Well, I say especially the YMCA in San Francisco because
after the bars closed, everyone went to the YMCA for
their activities and it was a wild, wild place, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Well in that vein, can you talk about a time
when either your queer community friends or one of the
old gays has helped you through a hard time.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
I have something and it is directly related to Bob.
In two thousand and eight, during the financial crisis, I
lost my home in Palm Springs and I didn't know
what to do. I was almost on the streets, and
I told Bob what was happening to me, and Bob said, well,
(16:15):
there's a new senior complex down at the bottom of
the hill that you might check out. And in one
week I got the very last apartment in my apartment building,
and I was so relieved, I can't tell you. I
literally was on the street and without Bob's help, I
(16:39):
would have been a goner.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I had one friend, major friend, kevin'sy's name, that when
I had my last surgery, moved in to my place,
and he gave like I have never seen before. He cleaned,
he made sure I was okay, that I was healing,
that I was made to my appointments, And I will
(17:03):
forever be indebted to him for giving up his home
for two months to live in mind and help me
through it.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And I might.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Add he is the most wonderful massage therapist you have
ever met.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
He is, He's really wonderful. His massage is like him.
He gives all of himself to Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
What is the most bizarre way you've met a new friend?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Now?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I would say the most bizarre way that I met
a new friend is that we didn't have sex first school.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yes, that probably was bizarre for you, was it was
bizarre for me?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You know the old line I never do anything twice?
I was just thinking. Another bizarre way I met a
new friend was on the internet. Yes, actually through a
dating app. But to spit it out, well, that included sex. Okay.
So you know, I'm one of those homosexuals out there
who believes that really a relationship doesn't really begin until
(18:11):
you've had sex, and then afterwards that's when the friendship starts.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You know, that's true? A lot, I do coffee first,
sounds very sounds very boring.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I was going to say, it sounds very diuretic.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Michael.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
We'll be back with silver linings after the break.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
We're back with silver linings.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Now for our younger listeners, what's some advice for keeping
or making friends as an adult? You know, it almost
sounds like like question time at the met Opera podcast. Okay, again,
the question is what some advice you have for keeping
or making friends as an adult?
Speaker 4 (19:12):
The most important thing is trust. Trust. Once you lose
trust in someone, you can never gain it bad And
I would like to add a perspective that we're all
human and as human beings, we have mood swings. Sometimes
(19:37):
we have a bad day, and don't judge your new
friends on the basis of a bad moment.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Realize that they like you go through tough times, and
the true test of a friendship is maintaining your image
of that person through the worst of times.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It takes a lot of communication, it takes a lot
of work. Sometimes you will be giving more than the
friend will and that's okay, But don't lose respect for
yourself and all of it, and make sure that you're
getting back something from other people.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I would just add a caveat to our younger listeners
and say friendships aren't always made to last forever. That
people come into your life, you become very close with them,
your friendships are very strong, and then something happens where
there is a change in both of you and it's
it's not the end of something, it's just it's a
(20:46):
friendship changes. Maybe it's not as intimate as it was before,
but that's okay. These are people who will be significant
throughout your whole life, and that you will look back
on those friends and either see them for what they
are or take something of value from that, and that's
(21:07):
how you add on to the next friendships that you have. Yes, now,
how has your friendship with each of us changed you?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Well, it's changed me a lot because I've been single
now for twenty five years, haven't had someone really really close,
and the old gays have come around and you have
pointed out things that have made me make a lot
(21:38):
of changes about what I do and how I think
about myself.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
And now he's a better dancer.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I've learned patience, I've learned a different type of love
with you guys, I really have and it's been an
amazing journey because it's taken me through stuff that none
of us probably would have been through, and it's made
me who I am because I am a part of
all of you, everybody that touches my life I become.
(22:15):
I take some of you away with me and I
thank you for it. Some I'll leave because we're all
human and we can be little bitches sometimes, but it's okay.
We're human.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yippie for me. I love the three of you very much.
You know, you're the significant people in my life. I
don't have anybody, especially in my life anymore, and sometimes
I pine for that, but I realize, you know, between
my health and this project, that's plenty plenty time there spent.
(22:51):
You know, we're all doing show business, and the nature
of show business is such that it can actually drive
people apart. And you know, if you can hold onto
your friendships and grow as quite frankly a business and
become more professional in our outlook, that's a way I
(23:11):
think that we will transcend any challenges that we have.
And also I think that is part of our appeal.
I think that's what's most important.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
And y'all give me exercise too, thank you all for.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, the dancing. The dancing can be difficult at then.
And I don't know about you guys, but I look
forward to afterwards because I do feel stronger afterwards.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Afterwards, just that thing that I look forward to the most.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I tell you to be recovery people. They think that
we just walk in there and start doing this. It's
like y'all just don't know the hours us who folks
got it? Loosen the bones up and everything.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And memorizing scripts, girl, helps keep our minds a little
more activated.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Stress is mind yeah, you know, because you know here
we are in our seventies and eighties and rather than
you know, winding down, we seem to be winding up.
And this activity has really helped keep us active, young, healthier.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And alive and living.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, which is a message I think we can send
out to all our listeners that you really have to
be active even if you're in a repressed environment. You know,
look for your friends now, if you know who you are,
there are plenty of resources out there for you to access,
more resources than you could chain a stick at. I mean,
(24:45):
considering what little we had when we were your age.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yes, yeah, And I think our message that we're giving
about how you're never too old to enjoy life. We
do seem to be enjoying life more and more as
we progress, and I think it's an important message to
(25:11):
the world, and I see it reflected in many comments
on our videos that people will state I no longer
fear getting old. Yeah, And I think that is one
of the most important responses.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
That I value the most.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Okay, moving on to the real t. What was your
first impression of each other? Okay, Mick, I'll start there.
I saw pain. I saw a lot of pain, but
I didn't realize how much pain there was until you
(25:56):
were healed this year, how much you've been going through,
and my eyes watered for it because I do care
about you and I'm so glad that you're doing better now.
Robert has just been laughter for me. We've yelled across
the street to each other even before we knew each other,
and I look forward to every morning hearing us saw
(26:18):
or something going because then I know Robert's okay. Down
the hill, Bill lousy, clousy? What must I say about you,
honey pie? Bill is one of these people. He can
get nervous, He gets all worked up over stuff, so
I have to keep him calm. It's like Bill, You've
got this, You've got this, and then he'll take a
(26:39):
breath and we go on through. Yeah'll work me.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
But I love the.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
War and I appreciate it very much to say, I
love you, I love you all I do well. My
first impression of Robert was a professional one. It was
in San Francisco. I was running an interior design showroom
and Robert was working for the city. And to be
(27:06):
very honest with you, I didn't know if Bob was
straight or gay. He carried himself very strong. He looked
like a stalwart kind of guy, and that was my
first impression.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
And Mick.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I thought Mick was one of the most intelligent persons
I've ever met, because every subject I would bring up,
Mick would have an answer or an opinion on and
it was right on, and I greatly respect him for that.
(27:44):
I really didn't know, just say, until he came onto
the scene with the old gaze. Bob and Mick knew
him because he lived right across the street, but to me,
he was new and here he was just this happy,
go lucky, loving guy whose main object in the world
(28:08):
was to hug everyone he met.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Still, my first impression of Bill was similar to his
impression of me in that it was a business type setting.
And then make my first impression of me came from
a painting at a gallery show where he was the
(28:37):
subject matter. Because Mick had this beautiful, muscular, sculpted body
which people react to. And then when I met him personally,
that impression kind of overpowered everything else.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, Bob remembers that day very well. This was a
piece of work that somebody had commissioned for my fifty
fifth birthday, and I remember walking in and I was
looking at this painting and I was going, what's so
familiar about this painting? Why am I just staring at this?
(29:29):
And when I realized what it was, my jaw dropped.
I mean I had to pick it up from the floor,
and now it sits in my bedroom when I look
at it every morning. Yeah, and just said my first
impression of just Say really was during a taping when
we were doing those thirty minute things for YouTube, and
(29:49):
just Say said, oh, I've never been happier than when
I'm being a bloge. Now, my first impression of Bob
was not at that painting. I don't remember meeting him.
It wasn't until later when I answered the ad for
a new roommate and I drove up in my sports
(30:10):
car and I pulled into the driveway of the house
and there's this seventy year old man, stripped to his
shorts clearing brush. And I looked at that and I thought,
what am I getting myself into?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Life is so interesting like that? How we end up here?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Sometimes it's on a wing and a prayer. Yeah, you know,
you have to go with your hunches.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Sometimes your intuition is right, sometimes it's not. You have
to You just have to go with it.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, take a chance, Lord, We've all taken so many.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
This show is called silver Linings. What does silver Lightings
mean to you?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Silver Linings for me means looking for the good and
every situation, no matter how bad it may be.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
What are you.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Learning from the experience that can make your life better?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Silver Linings is dealing with a bad situation and have
it turn around and feel really good again.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
It gets better. There's no place I want to be
than now in the Silver Linings time of my life,
and God only knows how long it's going to last.
So we have to live it.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, I've had so many silver linings in my life
that they're in the during periods of great stress or
when things look the most abysmal, that's when the most
opportunities arrive. You readly have to be an optimist and
understand that you know, within a crisis, there are opportunities.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Okay, folks.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
That wraps up the first episode of silver Linings with
The Old Games.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Silver Linings is a production of iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio and
The Outspoken Neckwork. We're your hosts Nick Peterson, Bill Lyons,
Jesse Martin, and Robert Free.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
The Old Games. Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser, and
the show is produced and edited by Joey pat Theme
music was composed by Max herscha Now with audio direction
and designed by Matt Stilla.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
And if you're having fun with us, don't forget to
subscribe and follow along. And while you're at it, please
rate and review Silver Linings wherever you get your podcast.
See you in two weeks.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Every weekend, there's fresh meat.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Tell us about that dancer that came to your place
at one am in the morning.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
You can't kiss baby, We ain't gonna.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Do it any memorable sex experiences
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well not Vanilla
Rube. Is it too loud? It is a little loud.
We like it. I like it. Give me my music.
Fucking shock that I had sex with my technology.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And thank goodness it wasn't a dinner, no no room.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, I'm not a slut like you, except on cruise ship.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
In the biggest flood in the.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Western Mediterranean, Doug Corral, guys, it's.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Like all the she was a bitch too. Oh that's
gonna get got God.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles and steamy
Palm Springs, California, It's Mick Robert Bill just say, and
this is Silver Riding.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
With the Old Gays.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
On our show. We'll bring you the wisdom from our
lives as four freedom loving gay men.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And share the silver linings we've collected along the way.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
After all, we weren't always old day and all I
can say is we've come a long way.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Baby oo.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Hi everyone, and welcome to the first ever episode of
Silver Linings with the Old Gays.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We are four senior friends from Cathedral City, California, and
one of our goals is to bring the differing generations
of queer people together as one community. I'd like to
introduce myself. I'm Mick Peterson and I'm known for both
(01:56):
being wild and wise.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
And I'm Robert Breathe and I'm the artistic one.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Hello, I'm Jesse Martin, I am Love.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Hi. This is Bill Lyons, and I'm the innocent looking one.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Looking you mean you're looking for innocent.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
No, I'm not innocent, but I'm innocent looking.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
That's the truth. How would you describe the Old Gays
for senior citizens gay who accidentally came together over the
years and spreads our wisdom and humored to the world.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
The Old Gays are a typical family. We fight, and
we laugh, and we love. We run away and then
we come right back home.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah. I would describe the Old Gays as a work
in progress and as a group. We're not afraid to
make fools of ourselves and that's part of our appeal.
If you've seen any of our dance videos, we want
to make you laugh.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Then it goes back over forty years to Bill and
I in San Francisco. We first met in the early eighties,
became friends, reconnected in the early two thousands when Bill
moved to the desert, and then next came Mick in
(03:36):
twenty thirteen when he answered a ad I was running
for a roommate in the house and that brought Mick
into the fold. And then around twenty fourteen, just Say
moved into the neighborhood and by eighteen he was part
(04:02):
of the group.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
This long format is a chance for us to really
connect more with our current audience and also to expand
our reach to the greater queer community throughout the world.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And I've never done a podcast before and I'm very
much looking forward to this.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, I mean it's really done in seven years, and
I think it is through those adventures and working on projects,
whether they be partnerships or our dance videos or travel,
that those experiences have helped to bond us closer together.
And I think it's that sort of message that we
(04:44):
want to convey to our audience as well. Again, we're
a chosen family, and that is, after all, what this
episode is about. I would describe chosen family as what
it is not. It is not your blood family. Sometimes
our friendships are thrust upon us due to circumstances really
(05:06):
beyond our control, and that we call fate. What does
chosen family mean to you?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
To me, chosen family is the closest thing you've got
to a real family when your family isn't around anymore.
And yes, you do choose them and you learn to
love them, you learn to trust them, you learn to
be there for them, and they're there for you.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
And I don't look at role play within a chosen
family the way one would do in a blood family,
whether it's patriarchal or maternal. There's no really titular head.
It kind of moves around.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yes, we all play every role in this. We can
be a mama, a daddy, a brother, a sister that
you create the families that you want to live your
life around.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
And for me, the chosen family is the old Gays
because I have gotten to love and respect these guys
very very much.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And it helps to be in the same neighborhood for
us too. It's been I mean, two minutes to work.
I've never had such a such a short commute.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Well, all the other guys live on the same street,
and I don't. I live down below them, so they
call me down the hill Bill. But I can be
summoned in ten minutes. And I think we would be
remiss and not mentioning Sean and Ryan, who are also
(06:50):
parts of our family, and they are more in that. Well, Ryan,
he's actually the one who first sparked the idea of
the ogays.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know, one of the other things that's a hallmark
of a chosen family is the distances involved and the
amount of work that it takes to maintain those friendships.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Now, how would you define the queer community and has
your perspective on community changed throughout different phases of your life.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, I see the definition of queer community has really
broadened substantially over the years. When I was younger, the
queer community was basically my male homosexual friends, people I
(07:45):
had met casually and otherwise. And I just see, probably
most symbolically, how the queer flag was created in the
Seven Days and how over the years the meaning behind
it has expanded.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I tell you, I have never experienced the queer community
seriously until I moved here, because they are all over
and this is my heaven on earth and I cannot
imagine living somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And just for our listeners of where.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Do we live, we live in Cathedral City, Cove, Palm Springs, California.
So you don't have to move here. We leve for
you to visit critically. For me, the definition of what
is queer has changed dramatically. When I first came out,
I thought it was just, you know, a binary thing.
(08:51):
But I over the last really ten to fifteen years,
have come to understand that what it means to be
queer is much more broad in scope. And I think
one of the beauties of our community is its embrace
of this change, of this greater diversity, And it is
(09:12):
our embrace of this change that now once again has
brought a really strong backlash against our rights, many of
the rights that we fought for and that we're not
going to give up. The queer community has changed over
the years because it's not passive. We used to accept
the fact that we were going to be arrested if
(09:34):
we were in a gay bar, and that was it,
and that we made sure that we had a lawyer
to make sure that our names were not printed in
the local paper.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
That kind of thing that existed. Then, you know the
fact that you could be thrown out of work, you
could be thrown out of your house, you could be stopped,
you could be arrested just simply for being in the
wrong place at the wrong time, with a place enclothesmen,
and you know, we send out our hearts and prayers
to our queer community who in many countries for your
(10:08):
being arrested or killed. And so though the times are precarious,
I also am really heartened by the fact that we
continue to grow and expand despite everything that's being thrown
against us.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
I totally agree with you, Rick. And one experience I
had when I was in a gay bar. I was nineteen,
but I had a fake ID, so I was I
was nervous anyway about that, and one of my friends
walked in, saw a buddy of his, went over and
shook hands and was immediately arrested and he lost his
(10:46):
job as a school teacher. And all I can say
is we've come a long way, baby. The gay community
is much bolder today than it was coming out in
Saint Louis. The gay community there literally hid itself and
(11:07):
stayed in the shadows and were forced by circumstances to
meet other gay people in park cruising and other forms
of back alley if you will meetings. But what really
was very noticeable to me and has left a lasting
(11:31):
impression is moving to San Francisco in nineteen eighty and
just by coincidence the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, how
the gay community came up with all kinds of ways
(11:51):
to support, raise funds, express outrage against the action of
society and government. So yes, there have been dramatic changes
over the years, and I recall recently seeing an article
(12:15):
that used the figure of twenty five percent of young
people now identify themselves as the broad definition of queer.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, Why do you think chosen family is so
central to queer life?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I can answer for myself only. It's important for me
because I don't want to be alone. I'm thinking now
I'm seventy one, and I think of dying, And luckily
I have an adopted little brother who is there for me,
has proven his love to me and flown out here
(12:52):
when I was sick. And that's what the family's about,
having someone there for me when I really need them.
You find out who you're real friends and chosen friends
are because they will reach out to you to make
sure that you're okay, and that's very important as a
single black man here.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Also, when I was coming out, I didn't have a
chosen family. In fact, I didn't even have any friends
or peers who were gay, and in high school I
had to act straight and all that. And today there
are so many things available to young people, like all
(13:35):
the high schools in the Coachella Valley here have straight
and gay alliances where it might not be a chosen family,
but it certainly someone who can answer your questions and
sets you straight about what's going on. Yes, the importance
of having a sounding board for your ideas, questions do
(13:58):
you have about yours that you can ask others and
knowing that they will give you constructive responses that help
you process what you're going through. And just to me,
the term ally is kind of a new term relative
(14:24):
to the gay community, which opens a whole vast amount
of people who do not have to be members of
the queer community, but yet be totally supportive of the
queer community.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
When I came out, which was in the nineteen seventies,
I had no other choice but to seek out friends.
And what was incredible was that when I did come out,
this is going to get me into trouble. But this
is the real reason why the song was written. It
was called the Ymca, But you've got to remember that
(15:05):
this was this is a song about gay liberation and
the fact that you can go to the YMCA, get
yourself clean and make a lot of new friends, especially
the YMCA in New York City.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Well, I say especially the YMCA in San Francisco because
after the bars closed, everyone went to the YMCA for
their activities and it was a wild, wild place, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Well in that vein, can you talk about a time
when either your queer community friends or one of the
old gays has helped you through a hard time.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
I have something and it is directly related to Bob.
In two thousand and eight, during the financial crisis, I
lost my home in Palm Springs and I didn't know
what to do. I was almost on the streets, and
I told Bob what was happening to me, and Bob said, well,
(16:15):
there's a new senior complex down at the bottom of
the hill that you might check out. And in one
week I got the very last apartment in my apartment building,
and I was so relieved, I can't tell you. I
literally was on the street and without Bob's help, I
(16:39):
would have been a goner.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I had one friend, major friend, kevin'sy's name, that when
I had my last surgery, moved in to my place,
and he gave like I have never seen before. He cleaned,
he made sure I was okay, that I was healing,
that I was made to my appointments, And I will
(17:03):
forever be indebted to him for giving up his home
for two months to live in mind and help me
through it.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And I might.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Add he is the most wonderful massage therapist you have
ever met.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
He is, He's really wonderful. His massage is like him.
He gives all of himself to Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
What is the most bizarre way you've met a new friend?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Now?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I would say the most bizarre way that I met
a new friend is that we didn't have sex first school.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yes, that probably was bizarre for you, was it was
bizarre for me?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You know the old line I never do anything twice?
I was just thinking. Another bizarre way I met a
new friend was on the internet. Yes, actually through a
dating app. But to spit it out, well, that included sex. Okay.
So you know, I'm one of those homosexuals out there
who believes that really a relationship doesn't really begin until
(18:11):
you've had sex, and then afterwards that's when the friendship starts.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You know, that's true? A lot, I do coffee first,
sounds very sounds very boring.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I was going to say, it sounds very diuretic.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Michael.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
We'll be back with silver linings after the break.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
We're back with silver linings.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Now for our younger listeners, what's some advice for keeping
or making friends as an adult? You know, it almost
sounds like like question time at the met Opera podcast. Okay, again,
the question is what some advice you have for keeping
or making friends as an adult?
Speaker 4 (19:12):
The most important thing is trust. Trust. Once you lose
trust in someone, you can never gain it bad And
I would like to add a perspective that we're all
human and as human beings, we have mood swings. Sometimes
(19:37):
we have a bad day, and don't judge your new
friends on the basis of a bad moment.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Realize that they like you go through tough times, and
the true test of a friendship is maintaining your image
of that person through the worst of times.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It takes a lot of communication, it takes a lot
of work. Sometimes you will be giving more than the
friend will and that's okay, But don't lose respect for
yourself and all of it, and make sure that you're
getting back something from other people.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I would just add a caveat to our younger listeners
and say friendships aren't always made to last forever. That
people come into your life, you become very close with them,
your friendships are very strong, and then something happens where
there is a change in both of you and it's
it's not the end of something, it's just it's a
(20:46):
friendship changes. Maybe it's not as intimate as it was before,
but that's okay. These are people who will be significant
throughout your whole life, and that you will look back
on those friends and either see them for what they
are or take something of value from that, and that's
(21:07):
how you add on to the next friendships that you have. Yes, now,
how has your friendship with each of us changed you?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Well, it's changed me a lot because I've been single
now for twenty five years, haven't had someone really really close,
and the old gays have come around and you have
pointed out things that have made me make a lot
(21:38):
of changes about what I do and how I think
about myself.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
And now he's a better dancer.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I've learned patience, I've learned a different type of love
with you guys, I really have and it's been an
amazing journey because it's taken me through stuff that none
of us probably would have been through, and it's made
me who I am because I am a part of
all of you, everybody that touches my life I become.
(22:15):
I take some of you away with me and I
thank you for it. Some I'll leave because we're all
human and we can be little bitches sometimes, but it's okay.
We're human.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yippie for me. I love the three of you very much.
You know, you're the significant people in my life. I
don't have anybody, especially in my life anymore, and sometimes
I pine for that, but I realize, you know, between
my health and this project, that's plenty plenty time there spent.
(22:51):
You know, we're all doing show business, and the nature
of show business is such that it can actually drive
people apart. And you know, if you can hold onto
your friendships and grow as quite frankly a business and
become more professional in our outlook, that's a way I
(23:11):
think that we will transcend any challenges that we have.
And also I think that is part of our appeal.
I think that's what's most important.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
And y'all give me exercise too, thank you all for.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, the dancing. The dancing can be difficult at then.
And I don't know about you guys, but I look
forward to afterwards because I do feel stronger afterwards.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Afterwards, just that thing that I look forward to the most.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I tell you to be recovery people. They think that
we just walk in there and start doing this. It's
like y'all just don't know the hours us who folks
got it? Loosen the bones up and everything.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And memorizing scripts, girl, helps keep our minds a little
more activated.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Stress is mind yeah, you know, because you know here
we are in our seventies and eighties and rather than
you know, winding down, we seem to be winding up.
And this activity has really helped keep us active, young, healthier.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And alive and living.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, which is a message I think we can send
out to all our listeners that you really have to
be active even if you're in a repressed environment. You know,
look for your friends now, if you know who you are,
there are plenty of resources out there for you to access,
more resources than you could chain a stick at. I mean,
(24:45):
considering what little we had when we were your age.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yes, yeah, And I think our message that we're giving
about how you're never too old to enjoy life. We
do seem to be enjoying life more and more as
we progress, and I think it's an important message to
(25:11):
the world, and I see it reflected in many comments
on our videos that people will state I no longer
fear getting old. Yeah, And I think that is one
of the most important responses.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
That I value the most.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Okay, moving on to the real t. What was your
first impression of each other? Okay, Mick, I'll start there.
I saw pain. I saw a lot of pain, but
I didn't realize how much pain there was until you
(25:56):
were healed this year, how much you've been going through,
and my eyes watered for it because I do care
about you and I'm so glad that you're doing better now.
Robert has just been laughter for me. We've yelled across
the street to each other even before we knew each other,
and I look forward to every morning hearing us saw
(26:18):
or something going because then I know Robert's okay. Down
the hill, Bill lousy, clousy? What must I say about you,
honey pie? Bill is one of these people. He can
get nervous, He gets all worked up over stuff, so
I have to keep him calm. It's like Bill, You've
got this, You've got this, and then he'll take a
(26:39):
breath and we go on through. Yeah'll work me.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
But I love the.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
War and I appreciate it very much to say, I
love you, I love you all I do well. My
first impression of Robert was a professional one. It was
in San Francisco. I was running an interior design showroom
and Robert was working for the city. And to be
(27:06):
very honest with you, I didn't know if Bob was
straight or gay. He carried himself very strong. He looked
like a stalwart kind of guy, and that was my
first impression.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
And Mick.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I thought Mick was one of the most intelligent persons
I've ever met, because every subject I would bring up,
Mick would have an answer or an opinion on and
it was right on, and I greatly respect him for that.
(27:44):
I really didn't know, just say, until he came onto
the scene with the old gaze. Bob and Mick knew
him because he lived right across the street, but to me,
he was new and here he was just this happy,
go lucky, loving guy whose main object in the world
(28:08):
was to hug everyone he met.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Still, my first impression of Bill was similar to his
impression of me in that it was a business type setting.
And then make my first impression of me came from
a painting at a gallery show where he was the
(28:37):
subject matter. Because Mick had this beautiful, muscular, sculpted body
which people react to. And then when I met him personally,
that impression kind of overpowered everything else.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, Bob remembers that day very well. This was a
piece of work that somebody had commissioned for my fifty
fifth birthday, and I remember walking in and I was
looking at this painting and I was going, what's so
familiar about this painting? Why am I just staring at this?
(29:29):
And when I realized what it was, my jaw dropped.
I mean I had to pick it up from the floor,
and now it sits in my bedroom when I look
at it every morning. Yeah, and just said my first
impression of just Say really was during a taping when
we were doing those thirty minute things for YouTube, and
(29:49):
just Say said, oh, I've never been happier than when
I'm being a bloge. Now, my first impression of Bob
was not at that painting. I don't remember meeting him.
It wasn't until later when I answered the ad for
a new roommate and I drove up in my sports
(30:10):
car and I pulled into the driveway of the house
and there's this seventy year old man, stripped to his
shorts clearing brush. And I looked at that and I thought,
what am I getting myself into?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Life is so interesting like that? How we end up here?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Sometimes it's on a wing and a prayer. Yeah, you know,
you have to go with your hunches.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Sometimes your intuition is right, sometimes it's not. You have
to You just have to go with it.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, take a chance, Lord, We've all taken so many.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
This show is called silver Linings. What does silver Lightings
mean to you?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Silver Linings for me means looking for the good and
every situation, no matter how bad it may be.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
What are you.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Learning from the experience that can make your life better?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Silver Linings is dealing with a bad situation and have
it turn around and feel really good again.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
It gets better. There's no place I want to be
than now in the Silver Linings time of my life,
and God only knows how long it's going to last.
So we have to live it.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, I've had so many silver linings in my life
that they're in the during periods of great stress or
when things look the most abysmal, that's when the most
opportunities arrive. You readly have to be an optimist and
understand that you know, within a crisis, there are opportunities.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Okay, folks.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
That wraps up the first episode of silver Linings with
The Old Games.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Silver Linings is a production of iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio and
The Outspoken Neckwork. We're your hosts Nick Peterson, Bill Lyons,
Jesse Martin, and Robert Free.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
The Old Games. Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser, and
the show is produced and edited by Joey pat Theme
music was composed by Max herscha Now with audio direction
and designed by Matt Stilla.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
And if you're having fun with us, don't forget to
subscribe and follow along. And while you're at it, please
rate and review Silver Linings wherever you get your podcast.
See you in two weeks.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Every weekend, there's fresh meat.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Tell us about that dancer that came to your place
at one am in the morning.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
You can't kiss baby, We ain't gonna.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Do it any memorable sex experiences
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well not Vanilla
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