October 24, 2023 • 46 mins
This week, Kevin sits down in studio with Alyssa Milano. She talks about the beginning of her acting career on "Who's The Boss?", fame at a young age, her life-changing friendship with Ryan White and her activism in HIV awareness in the 1980s. She then shares her connection to Dawwie, a UNICEF supported Girls’ Empowerment Initiative in Egypt, that is educating young women and amplifying their voices. They are joined by Dina Heikel, a Social and Behavioral Change Officer currently working with the Dawwie initiative.
*Note: this interview was recorded before the SAG-AFTRA strike took effect.
To learn more and get involved with Dawwie Initiative, head to unicefusa.org/stories/how-unicef-empowering-girls-egypt. To support more initiatives like this program, text 'BACON' to 707070 or head to SixDegrees.Org to learn more.
To support children that are directly affected by the current conflicts and war, please head to unicefusa.org/what-unicef-does/emergency-response/conflict
UNICEF is on the ground in 190 countries and territories, supporting children with lifesaving supplies and programs. In all wars, it is children who suffer first and suffer most. UNICEF is calling for an immediate end to the hostilities in Israel and Gaza. UNICEF and its partners are responding to the immediate needs of children and families in Gaza with medical supplies and medicines, as well as mental health and psychosocial support. UNICEF will continue to respond to critical humanitarian needs as the situation evolves. To learn more about UNICEF’s work and to donate please visit unicefusa.org/ActNowemergencies.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following episode was recorded before the WGA sag Aftra
strikes of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Since we taped this episode, sadly, a war is broken
out between Israel and Palestine and the Middle East, and
today's episode highlights the work of UNISEF in Egypt, where
they are currently at the front lines of trying to
advance humanitarian aid to the civilians who are in Gaza.
There are no words that can frame how deeply horrified
(00:28):
we are at the amount of lives lost in such
a short period of time throughout this region. We recognize
that we are a show people would want to turn
two to discuss such matters, but by the nature of
our pre recorded taping schedule, we are not able to
bring on a guest that can speak to this moment
at this time.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
But what we do want to appeal.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
To our audience to do today is to consider financially
supporting Egypt. There's so many displaced people, specifically children, who
decimately desperately need your help. So look to our show
notes for more information. You know, I didn't really travel
that much when I was a young man. My parents
(01:13):
they would travel, but they wouldn't take There were six
kids so they would take us with them. But when
I finally did travel, I remember being struck with a
couple of things. One was that even at feeling like
a worldly type person, you know, I really was living
in a bubble and I didn't really understand things outside
(01:36):
of this country that we live in. And I was
also struck with the fact that outside of the gates
of any resort community, there are a lot of people
that are living with very, very little, and you'll see
this pretty much anywhere you're gonna go. And it brought
(01:58):
me to a point of view that I had to
really look a little bit more carefully at everything that
I had and at the privilege that I've experienced in
my life, and to try to think outside of this
relatively small world that I have created here. Traveling across
(02:20):
the country also has allowed me to do that, you know,
as an actor, sometimes I'll go to places that are
not on anybody's tourist map, but they happen to be
places where we are filming.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And rather than just being there.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
As a tourist, if you go as an actor, you
really have to stop and live someplace, and you know,
find yourself to the laundromat or the target or whatever
it is, a grocery store, and you know, it's really
really a great thing. First off, to see the commonality
between us in that we all have this desire to
be safe and take care of our children and have
(02:57):
food and shelter. And also the disparity between the haves
and the have nots has always been a really powerful thing,
which really leads me to this conversation that I'm having
today with Alyssa Milano. She's been involved with an Egyptian
organization that's sponsored by UNISEEF. It brought up a lot
of feelings about the lack of social support in many
(03:20):
parts of the world where people are just striving to
make a better life for themselves. So, Leana, I'm glad
you're here.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Alyssa Milano is here in person.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
With me, very very excited to have this amazing actress, entrepreneur, activist, producer, writer, author.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
This is why I'm so tired.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I mean, I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
What I was thinking was, how do you find time
to come down to hang out with me? I really
do appreciated the time time, and you're just coming from
a television appearance today. You got a lot I mean,
what a fascinating.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Career you've had. Well, first off, we do this dumb thing.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It is six degrees of may, not really may, but
six degrees in general.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And and so we do this thing.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
But you know, I was thinking about a connection that
I don't even know if you're aware of this maybe, but.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Where the day takes you? Do you remember that one?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So the director of that, Mark Rocker. The next movie
I was in, was called Murder in the First and
Mark was a fantastic director. I mean I wanted to
do he did. Yeah, he sadly passed away. I guess,
you know, kind of a troubled guy, but really an
(04:54):
amazing director. And and I wanted to do Murder in
the First based on where.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
They takes it.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, which if anybody hasn't seen it, that's a good
one to pull up.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Still incredibly relevant too.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, how did you end up? How did you end
up in that movie? It was a big cast.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I think I just auditioned. I don't remember. It was
a very long time, like the last years.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I know, I know, I know, that is a long
long time. Yeah, But you grew up in the city, right,
I was.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Born in Brooklyn and then we moved to Staten Island, okay,
because someone got shot in the front yard of our
apartment in Brooklyn. Oh wow, this was it was in Bensonhurst.
This was during the race riots. So what year was
regular seventy six? And then we moved to Staten Island,
(05:50):
you know, because that was like that was my parents
making it and giving us, you know, the life that
that a child deserved.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So that was moving on up to get the stand, yes.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Exactly, and lived in Staten Island.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Talk out who's the boss and what did your parents do?
Speaker 5 (06:07):
My mom was a fashion designer and my dad was
in insurance. Okay, so not anywhere near the industry except
my mom and dad were.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
My dad was a musician, so.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
I grew up with incredible live music and my mom
sketching in her in her sketchbook. And she used to
do these fashion shows instead of doing them during fashion
week like you know, the normal way she she would
do them in clubs at night, like after a whole
day of fashion shows during fashion week. And one of
(06:43):
her dancers, slash Models, was.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
An actor and had her equity card and used to
go in for open auditions all the time.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
She was also my babysitter so she unbeknownst to my.
Speaker 6 (06:58):
Parents, it's very convenient when your babysitter has an equity card.
She she took me up for an open anti audition
where she was auditioning for the ensemble.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
And we got there.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Your parents didn't know this was happening.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Had no clue until the last round, which was like,
I don't know nine hours later.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
And she looked at me.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
And I was, you know, looking at the stage, and
I didn't know what they were doing. I was seven,
but they were singing and dancing and I love to
do that, so I guess I was looking longingly and
she said, do you want an audition? And I was
like sure, I don't know what that means. There were
fifteen hundred kids that were there, and four were.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Picked out of the fifteen hundred.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Wow, and that's did you have a song prepared?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
I mean sang happy Birthday? Because I didn't have a song?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Wow?
Speaker 7 (07:49):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Okay, well you had that? When did you bring the
sheet music for it?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
He knew it? You know it? Okay? Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So so I mean, I love this is the greatest
story because, for one thing, the idea that you're an.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Actress and a babysitter.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And you have to but you but you got an audition, right,
you got to go to the audition. You can't you
can't not go to the audition that that she drags
you along. So did you get you got this part?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I got the part?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And what was it? A bus and truck?
Speaker 5 (08:18):
We tour a second natural national touring company for eighteen months.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Wow, And I'm assuming it's it's Annie.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
I know I played July.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Oh, I don't know. I don't know that one, okay.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
And I understudied for Molly, which was the Little One.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Okay, So I'm I'm not familiar with the show that one.
I don't know if I've ever saw it. But so,
what what does your dad play?
Speaker 5 (08:41):
My dad plays everything, piano, guitar, He's just one of them.
And now he's a music editor for films. He started
that when he was like forty.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
He just woke up and he was.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
Like, you know what, I think would put my knowledge
of music to good and my love of film to
good use.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
And he does Michael Mann movies and like he's.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
So he's doing what he loves. He's doing its opposed
to insurance exactly, now was it?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I mean I don't know if anybody outside of like
the New York experience would quite understand this, because I
think we people just kind of tend to lump New
York into one sort of bundle, and but I would
think that benson Hurst to Staten Island might have a
certain level of culture. Shock or not so much? Did
(09:27):
they feel pretty similar?
Speaker 5 (09:28):
I think I was so young, but I think the
thing that I recognized was that we were going from
an apartment to a house with backyard and you know,
all those.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Things that I'm sure the school was different, Yes, was
it public school or.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
A public school? I went to PS thirty two and
twenty four until I.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
Got into into acting, and then I was tutored on
the set, you know, for most of my academic career,
which I actually think was a very important thing for me,
because I am dyslexic, and so working with a teacher
or a tutor one on one enabled me to learn
at my own pace and also instilled this love of
(10:08):
learning that I still have.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
As I always like to say, thank dog, I'm not
not dyslexic. But so you, uh, how old were you
when you started working in television?
Speaker 5 (10:18):
So I was ten when I got Who's the Boss,
the pilot and eleven the first year, and we wrapped
when I was nineteen.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Oh my, what, yes, it was forever. It was my
entire childhood.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
You so interesting? Go ahead, Sorry, Well it was wild.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Because you know, when you think about TV now, you know,
if you get a couple of million viewership because it's
so liquidated because there's so many options, that was a
big deal. But then there were there. It wasn't even Fox, right,
so it was ABC, NBC, and CBS, and to be
a top ten show meant that you were getting twenty
(10:55):
million viewers a week.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It's incredible you think about. Yeah, the difference in today.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
And also the other difference is like when the first
year when we aired, we were up against Family Ties
and there was just no way and we were all
the way on the bottom of the Nielsen ratings, you know,
which actually meant something then. But ABC believed in the
show and just stuck with it and found a time
slot that worked.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
This is so long ago.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
Our second season, Happy Days was before our show, So
Happy Days was at eight pm, as The Boss was
at eight thirty, and because of that time change, we became,
you know, the number one show in the nation, which
which meant a lot at that point.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So how does that.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, what's also interesting about that to me is
that boy talk about some formative years ten to nineteen.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
I mean, that was the culture shock was not right, and.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You'd never lived in California. Obviously your whole family moved
out to California.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
They didn't move the first year because I had my
brother and I are ten years apart.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
My mom like, this is never going.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
To go ten years old or younger, younger, I'm going.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
To say here, you know, you guys come back. Television
shows don't make it. There's no way. So just my
dad and I went, which was amazing. I had a
whole year with my dad in California, and it was
that was a very formative point in my life because
(12:25):
I just wanted to do everything he did.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
So my love for sports came from that era. My my.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
Intrigue in politics and political activism was during that time.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I learned so much about.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Ten years old, you developed a feeling for politics and
political activism.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Yes, yes, but remember this was at a time that
was so it was eighty two, HIV aids started became
very prevalent. The quote unquote which now we see as
we're recognized as being super racist, the war on drugs.
I mean, there's pictures of me in the White House
with Nancy Reagan, like, you know, just say no at
(13:09):
that age, but I think, I think, you know, back
it was such a different time, and.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
But not because I was. I was able to.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
At a very young age, especially with HIV AIDS and
the fear surrounding it, I was able to recognize that
that fear was being.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Used for political purposes.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
And the reason why I was able to recognize that
is I became friends with Ryan White, you know, Who's
the boss was so big, and the culture shock for
me was that I was a very introverted kid. I
was an artist. I grew up like not acting in
(13:57):
front of a live studio audience. That did not come
easy for me, and so the fame at such a
young age was very uncomfortable, very odd. Fame is weird
and at you know, twelve thirteen years old, when you're
going through puberty and then you're showing up on set
(14:19):
and there's a script called Sam's First Bra and you're
just like, you know, and you're you know, it's it's
it was, and being a young girl at that time
and the sexualization of young women.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
And it was just hard. It was hard.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
And I got a phone call just to give you
an idea of how obscure my life was, from Elton
John and he said, I'm friends with this little boy
named Ryan White, and he loves you and would you
meet with him? And now, Ryan, for those that don't know,
he was kicked out of school because he was HIV
(14:55):
positive from a blood transfusion and the the whole fear
around HIV at the time was that you could get
it from casual contact, which is why he was kicked
out of school. He fought for the right to go
back to school. He spoke in front of Congress and
he and I became friends after this meeting.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
And how old were you at the time.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I was fifteen and he was fifteen.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Oh, he was fifteen, Okay, And the.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Two of us, I think really connected on feeling othered
and feeling like we didn't really fit in anywhere, and
I loved him dearly. I say activism is a great
love story for me because I started in love and
(15:46):
the moment was when Ryan asked me to go on
TV and kiss him to prove that you couldn't get
HIV AIDS from casual contact, and I did.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
That moment changed everything for me.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I mean, for a fifteen year old to have that
kind of that kind of just a foresight to see
how powerful a moment this would be, and also to
be able to overcome what was clearly being fear message
to us at the time is just I mean, I
(16:25):
so admire you for doing that.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
How did your parents feel about that?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Totally supportive? Totally supportive?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
And what about the what about the show and the network?
I mean, would you have you gotten you know, push
back from from them? It was from the man, as
they say.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
It was right around the time when Judith Light also
started really fundraising.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
For HIV eight's so and Elton was on board.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
And Elton yes, and so you know, I think I
think the public had a really hard time with it
because here was, you know, how I was always presented
was America's sweetheart, and those that believed were bought into
the fear mongering.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
You know, I got a lot of hate mail.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
So I always people say to me all the time, like,
how do you deal with the trolls on social media?
It's like I've been I've been trolled since I kissed
Ryan White on the Phil Donna You show, like that's oh, that's.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Where it was the Phil Donna.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
So yeah, so and it changed my life. And I
got to tell you, I think more.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
Than anything, I was like, oh, like I could be
uncomfortable being famous, or I could do this with my fame,
and I I gotta tell you, like, I think the
rebellion that young people go through, like that was my
fucking rebellion. I was like, I'm gonna piss people off.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
M h, I'm.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
Going to do things that change narratives. And so it
was it was Ryan that gave me that gift. And
you know, I've been an activist ever since. But they
were without social media. You know, people weren't aware of
of the philanthropy or what.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I was doing.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Sure, well, I mean I think that you know, we
always we always can find about a billion things that
social media is not good for. But when it comes
to activism and things of a charitable nature's nature, sometimes
it's really can be a very very powerful tool well.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
And also like controlling your own content, right, like I
was able to say this is this is where I'm
going to volunteer my time, this week, whereas you know,
thirty years ago you had to be invited to do
an interview to talk about, you know.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Being.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
A part a progressive part of the community, right you weren't.
You weren't handed those opportunities, And now those opportunities are
right in front of us. We can actually control the
content that gets out there. So that was a big change.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
So I guess I guess what I'm wondering is that
from that point on, you're fifteen, you still have this
long road in front of you. But in terms of
the other stuff that you do, singer and an actress,
doing movies multiple subsequent I don't know how many series
have you done.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I probably I did.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Another one that went pretty years called Charmed I was Armed.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yeah, yeah, So that's I mean, you have this like
kind of ongoing career. How do you well.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
First off, in your heart, do you still like the
acting part of it or is it a way to
just be continued to be in people's awareness so that
you can do the activisim?
Speaker 5 (19:47):
I do think that there is an element of one
feeding the other that I'm very aware of, because acting
is not what is fulfilling to men.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It's not okay and I.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Think the reason being is not. It's not because oh
I've been doing it for so long.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It's like, what for me, you can take that part
out if there's any casting director, No, I don't.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Mean they all know.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
No.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
For me, it's just, you know, I've worked really hard
to attempt to heal wounds inside of my being. So
to go in and have to like.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
Pickt those scars, that's interesting. Like I fought really hard
to be the person I am today, and to have
to go back and like dredge up some kind of
heartache or trauma or pain for the sake of someone
else's vision and script and art just doesn't make a
(20:44):
whole lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
For me at this point.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
That's so interesting because I actually have I mean, this
is not a judgment for me. It's sort of the
opposite in that when I do that, I find it
very therapeutic, you know, when I'm gods, when I'm able
to go to dark places, when I'm able to play
characters that act out on horrible impulses, it I come
(21:10):
away from it with a greater sort of understanding myself.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Do you do like closure exercises? I'm not sure what
that is, So like what I just do it. Like
I did a movie called Brazen for Netflix, and my
sister dies on page six. So the whole movie, I'm
like trying to find the killer and crying and the
whole thing. And this was the first first of all
we used an intimacy coordinator, not only for the love
scenes but also for the emotional.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Meanwhile, great idea, because a lot of times, well we've
we've come around to then maybe people that are listening
don't even realize what intimacy coordinator, but it is what
it sounds like.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
If you're in a situation where you.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Have to be intimate with another actor, whether it's I
mean anything from a you know, a kiss or an
embrace to a hardcore sex scene, there's somebody that's going
to kind of walk everybody through that and discuss and
keep people feeling safe. But a lot of times, and
we have stuntmen and stunt coordinators that are supposed to
(22:12):
coordinate actions so that you.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Don't get hurt hurt, but a lot of.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Times there my daughter recently did a film where she
was just from in the entire movie, you know, in
terror or emotional crime, and it took a really big
toll on her and.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Your body doesn't know you're faking it.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, your body doesn't know you're faking it. Right.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
So what this intimacy coordinator did and what I started
working with my therapist after, is you know, allowing yourself say,
you know, whether it be with the other actor, the
scene partner, or the director, I'm going to go to
a place and I hope you make me feel safe
in this place, and you're sort of opening yourself up
(22:55):
to the vulnerability that it's going to take to do
the scene.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
But then you also.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Close it off, close it off after the.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Scene, you say, Okay, thank you for making me feel safe. Body,
I'm letting that go. And whether that be you know,
sometimes it's a smell for me, Like I'll say to myself,
when I smell the lavender that's on my wrist, I'm
going to know it's over. But just closing off that
emotion so I'm not bringing it at home, so I'm
(23:23):
not like a festering wound.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And that's very that's cool.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I got another word for it. It's called leaving your work
at the office. I mean, yes, yes, but I have to.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Say work is funky, it is, it's weird.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
I mean, it's weird. I love it still, I mean,
I really do.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
But but you know, the thing is is that what
I find is in the course of the shooting of
whatever it is, I can't turn it on and off
like a tap.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I'm good at saying, Okay, honey.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I'm home, how was your day, But it's always kind
of there, you know what I mean, underneath the surface.
When they say wrap on the whole movie, I'm done,
I say goodbye to that guy.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
I don't want to see him. I don't want to
see the clothes. Like people take their clothes. It's like the.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Worst thing I've ever it.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Took one coat home and I actually still wear it
because it's like the greatest coat in the world.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
But otherwise I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But maybe maybe the character was in it was in
a happy place when you wore that coat.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Maybe yeah, So I mean that's that's the difference.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
But I also think that there's a lot of actors
who you know, are of a caliber that I will
never be, which I'm totally fine with that.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Do have what you're talking about.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Which is this natural instinct to go to use the
places that already exist in them and kind of get
off on it, like kind of love that part of it.
And then there's actors that I know who go to
that place, can't shake it, and I mean, I'm sure
you know then go into a massive depression for six
(25:00):
months or a year afterwards.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, well, listen to Nana.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I've been at that a long time, and there's I've
seen a lot of people fall off. You fall off
you you you, you know, somehow implode or or drugs
or alcohol or or whatever it happens to be that
it is.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
You know, if if I don't want to turn this
into a poor us, it's so hard for us acts.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
But but you know there there, it does have its challenges,
but you get such joy.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Well, well you tell me, do you get.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Joy from the activism and is it constantly feeding you
in the way that acting does not.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Yes, I do think that there's something incredibly fulfilling for me.
I'm also able to understand that it's not for everybody,
but for me in particular, it has given my life,
meaning that you know, I'm a girl from Brooklyn. The
fact that I'm an ambassador for UNICEF is mind boggling
(26:02):
to me. And I take the responsibility very seriously. But
also it's also really frustrating, right, because you're allowing yourself
to be vulnerable and to be impacted by these experiences.
And that's what I think makes someone a powerful activist,
is that you are boots on the ground, you are
(26:24):
putting yourself, you are getting arrested, you are putting yourself,
you know, on the protest line. But it's also really
frustrating because there are very few wins, and I think
I think the lesson has been is the the journey
is the win, right.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
But I look at people like Alice Paul, who wrote
the Equal.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Rights Amendment in nineteen twenty died. You know, after Row
never saw the era implemented into our constitution. I'm still
fighting for what with those sixteen or sixteen words are
to be put in our constitution. Women have no protection
in our constitution other than the nineteenth Amendment, which is
(27:13):
the freedom to vote. So what that teaches me is like,
I can't be attached to the outcome because I might
not see it in my lifetime.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
So you have to be attached to the process.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
You have to love the process, and you have to
be okay with incremental wins.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
That's really hard, really hard. It's really hard, really hard.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well, I would also think that it's at some point
when you spend that much of your time focused on
the ills of the world of the you know, the
lack of justice or you know, equality, or that it
starts to just become I don't know, just kind of
(27:59):
overwhelming after a while. I would think that when you
spend that much of your day really focused on it.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
But what's interesting is is that the vastness of the
problem or problems that humanity faces for me personally, has
kind of made my world smaller interesting. It's made my like, well,
I have to do what I can and the acceptance
of not being able to change everything, as heartbreaking as
(28:27):
that can be sometimes and what I've seen is really
really traumatic.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
But it's like I was listening to Richard Branson.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Speak once and he said the greatest thing, which is
that it just clicked in my head where I was like,
that's what it feels like. Everything is so big, it
feels like problems are so enormous and insurmountable. But if
we all focus on our own circles, then eventually all.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
The circles hopefully will overlap and the world will be
a better place.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
I love that and I love it too, and it's
part of you know, when I went to Egypt with
with UNSEF, it's part of what I loved so much
about the Dawi program because Dawi the word means a
voice that resonates.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
If you are inspired by today's episode, please join us
in supporting six degrees dot org by texting the word
bacon to seven zero seven zero seven zero. Your gift
empowers us to continue to produce programs that highlight the
incredible work of everyday heroes, will also enabling us to
provide essential resources to those that need it the most.
Once again, text b a co n to seven zero
(29:45):
seven zero seven zero or visit six degrees dot org
to learn more.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
We have Dina Heikeel here from Dowie Girls Empowerment Initiative
in Egypt, which is part of uniceffor or it's a it's.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
A program that UNSEF is partners on that it funds,
and Dina is just you know, as being an ambassador
for UNISEF is amazing. But the unsung heroes are the people,
and there's thousands of them throughout the world that are
UNICEF field officers that are really giving up their entire
(30:29):
lives to make a better world for the children of
the world.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Dina, can we bring you on?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Elis was just going off about all the great work
that you do. Tell me how did you get involved
with UNSEF and specifically with diwy.
Speaker 7 (30:49):
So Basically, I've been working in development for probably the
past eighteen years at Vacracy Gender and so I got
into UNISEFF and and gender really was my passion, and
I had the amazing opportunity to be part of this
girl's Empartment program from the very beginning and designing it
(31:10):
with different partners. But the true beauty behind it really
was that we didn't just sit in an office and
decide what to do. We actually went to the field.
We designed it with the girls, for the girls, by
the girls, and we got the real voices and what
their needs are, and we kind of try to design
(31:33):
something that is substantial to them more than anything, and
we try to get everyone involved, I mean institutions, governments,
civil society, organizations, communities, and it really was about how
do we create this movement, this echoed is something that
(31:53):
resonates with everyone. To have a program for girls where girls. Really,
the core of it is about choices, girls being able
to make these choices based on informed decisions, having access
to the right information, the right services, and really being
(32:14):
able to voice their opinions, to speak up, but in
a safe and supportive environment. So we get the parents involved,
we get the communities, we even get the decision makers.
You know, they're just saying that if you don't have
a place on the table, you grab a chair. Those
girls didn't just grab a chair. They built an entire
(32:34):
table and we just sat on it. And we try
to build with them something that is substantial and that
resounds with what their needs are.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
And just to give some context, there are many positive
trends that are going on in Egypt right now, but
I do want to just say girls in Egypt, so
just to really give you context of how amazing Dinas
were is girls in Egypt are less likely to achieve
their full potential. For example, there are there are still
(33:10):
harmful practices such as female genital mutilation and child marriage,
and girls are five times more likely than boys to
be unemployed or receive any kind of education or training.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
So you know, when you listen to Dina speak and
she speaks so.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Eloquently about this program that she created that is literally
hundreds of hundreds of thousands of girls amazing, and millions
of people from the online work are being reached. You
have to understand that this is a major, big deal.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
This is not like, you know what, what we would.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Consider equity and empowerment, gender equity and empowerment in the
United States. This is there are barbaric practices that are
still going on in rural Egypt that needs to stop.
And what they do in Dina's program, just to give
you specifics, there's these sharing circles where girls sit around
(34:13):
in a circle and a facilitator will read a story
about let's say, female genital mutilation, and the girls will
talk about how they feel, what they would do to
protect each other, how they would speak to their family
if it's something that they don't want, and it is
(34:33):
so incredibly powerful. And then you go next door in
the room right next door, and there's a sharing circle of.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
All the boys.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Oh, I was going to ask about that, which I.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
Find maybe even more important, where the boys are talking
about how they could be more supportive to the girls
and their family, to their sisters.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Is it hard Dina to get parents to allow young
people to participate in this when there is such a
history of just you know, this this point of view.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
I mean, the thing is people fear what they don't know,
and if you go in with the mindset you know
that you're basically taking their girls away from them and
telling them what to do and what not to do,
they will definitely resist. And the beauty of Delwi was
that the community are part of the process. They're part
(35:30):
of that journey of change, you know, and whatever happens,
whatever these norms that may prevail, it's not out of hate,
you know. It's sometimes parents think that they're doing it
out of love because they think this is what's best
for them, and so getting them on board and involving
(35:50):
them definitely, like Alisa said, the circles are a huge
breakthrough because the girls find the safe space, but the
parents also find themselves involved in a dialogue with the
children later on, so that they also feel they're part
of it.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
You know.
Speaker 7 (36:06):
By the end of the day, as units have, we
believe parents do the best that they can possibly do
for their children. They just sometimes need to know how
and the training to do so. And navigating through this
there's so many difficult things out there, and and the
(36:26):
idea is that we all need to come together and
power through that We really is about the social movement
that everyone coming along and and girls will feel empowered
when they feel that they're not just hurt or listen
to that they are supported by allies. And whether these
allies are their own families, their own communities, the government,
(36:48):
everyone really has a role in this and and and
that is the powerful message behind it.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
And there are generational conversations literal where the mother will
facilitator will ask a question like what is the biggest
hope you have for your daughter? And they will be
able to and sometimes you know, communicate looking at each
other in the eyes for the first time, having these
really deep conversations. And what I think Dina and UNISEF
(37:19):
we're so smart to do is as this process is happening,
they've educated and empowered members of the DOWI program to
then be facilitators.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
I got you right.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
So it is sustainable, all right.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
So it's a ripple effect and it keeps spreading. Are
there any specific stories. I don't want to put you
on the spot, but that come to mind, Like any
specific stories you can share about how this affected someone
a young person.
Speaker 7 (37:49):
I mean absolutely, we have hundreds of stories. Actually, the
way the slogan of Dewi is your story completes their story.
The idea that stories can be so relatable to us
as human beings is actually the core of Dewi. Where
Egyptians were storytellers from hieroglyphics on the wall, just conversing
with each other. So we kind of use that as
(38:11):
a way that people share their own stories and and
and in a way it resonates with others. It's not
something completely far away from the communities. And so just
off the top of my head, the village that actually, Uh,
Lisa and I visited in Egypt, there were child marriage
incidents and and and one of the girls, La actually
(38:36):
stood up to that. She decided that she wants to
continue her education, and her parents supported her massively. Uh
And not only l has become a role model for
other girls, but her parents were actually an inspiration to
other parents. You know that a girl can achieve so
much by not going through this horrible crime of child
(39:00):
marriage and and and while being supported. Ella actually not
only influenced girls in her communities, but Ella actually was
one of the Deli ambassadors that stood in front of
Egypt's first Lady and asked for the country's support to
Delwi and she got it for her and for all
(39:20):
the girls in Egypt in a huge I mean I
got goosebumps just sitting there and watching this, and it
was absolutely amazing. And it shows that the commitment here
that yes, UNICEF is definitely supportive, but it really is
about the girls. It really is about the communities and
(39:42):
the sustainability. Like Elissa said of this, that they will
carry this on. They will draw murals on walls with
girls instead of hiding their faces, and and and the
institutions of offering the right services, the right information so
these girls can really thrive and reach the potential.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
So a beautiful part of us sharing circles too is
they take a piece of yarn and every time they
speak they wrap it around their arm. But it's all connected,
and it's to show the connection of the stories. And Dina,
you'll be happy to know that I was asked to
go speak at my brother's i mean my son's class
(40:23):
he's in fifth grade, on immigration, and I actually did
a Dowie circle with yarn where everyone I asked everyone
to share their immigration story and everyone was connected. So
your tools I used in the States, So thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Tell us about it takes a village, the documentary, It
takes a village.
Speaker 7 (40:49):
Yes, So I mean the idea of that we used
to also highlight the positive role models. I mean, we
understand there may be some setbacks, but we also want
to show the whole, right, So what we've decided to
do to kind of highlight these positive role models is
to actually have a documentary about three girls and their
(41:10):
families from three different, completely different areas in Egypt, and
and to kind of show their own journey throughout this
and how they not only stood against some of these
norms and practices, but how their families was there to
support them. And and the three girls are the one
(41:32):
that actually came from uh Fayum.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
The visit the village, we.
Speaker 7 (41:36):
Visit seme and and her dream was actually to become
a movie director and no and nod in Arabic means
light and and she she stood against uh female genital
mutilation in her own city. And and it kind of
(41:56):
walks us through the journey, and it shows how amazing
these girls are. If we just listen to them if
we give them the space, the amount of courage that
they have and the confidence. One of the girls, one
of the mothers of the girls in the movie, was
(42:17):
so moving. She was saying, you know, when I first
had I have three girls, and every time I gave
birth to one of them, people would say, you have
three girls, you don't have children, basically because you know
they're they're resonating the value that it needs to be
a male to to count as a child. And it
was so heartbreaking for her, and she was speaking so
(42:40):
wholeheartedly about this. But then she saw her daughter and
she was directing her own film and gathering the communities,
and the community was impressed by SAME's film, and the
mother stood there in the middle of the community and
she said, we actually, we're so fortunate to capture this
in the doking. She was like, this is my daughter.
(43:02):
I'm so proud of my daughter. I am the mother
of Cemeth. And of course we all burst into tears.
But the idea was how amazing it is when you
provide that space, and it's not only about Semet's lives,
but how many other girls lies can actually be changed,
how many other parents can look and say, I'm the
(43:24):
mother of La, I'm the mother of Nourah, I'm the
father of I'm the brother of And this is the
kind of a pril effect that we're looking for. Egypt
is a massive country. We have nineteen million girls under
the age of twenty. It's huge, and we want to
reach all of them.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Great.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Well, is there a call to action for both of you,
I mean, tell us the people who are listening to this.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
I'm sure it would be interested.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Thank you so gry to help for that opportunity.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
I would just ask everyone to go to UNISEFUSA dot
org slash act now Egypt and you'll find it if
information on how you can help, not only in a
SEF but the amazing Dina and her Dowie program.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Dina, thank you so much for for coming on at
eight o'clock at night, all the way from Egypt.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I can't believe that our connection is this good. It's good.
It actually works. Yeah, yeah, we don't even Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I've had much much worse zooms down the street than
I have, So something is working here. We're really appreciative
and Alsa, thank you so much for being here, taking
time out of your busy day. Oh my gosh, you're
so you're so busy. On top of everything else, you
have a Guardians of the Galaxy spaceship named after you.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (44:40):
True?
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, well you know that that took a lot.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
No, thank you for highlighting Dina's work, because I'm very
privileged to do what I do. But it's it's Dina,
it's the it's it's the unsung heroes. It's the grassroots
organizations that deserve all the credit.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
And I love you very much, Tina, Thank.
Speaker 7 (45:03):
You, thank you. I love you too. Thank you so
much for having me. And it really, it truly, in
all sense of the world, picks a village. So it's
not just me, it's the entire team that's behind this.
It's you. It's it's you, Alyssa, it's you, Kevin for
having us. Thank you so so much.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
You heard of folks. It takes a village. Thank you, guys. Hey, guys,
thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
If you want to learn more about the Dawi initiative
that UNISEF had to www dot UNISEF dot org slash Egypt,
you can find the link in.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Our show notes. And if you.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Like what you're here, you make sure you subscribe to
the show and tune in to the rest of our episodes.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
You can find six Degrees with Kevin Bacon on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, well wherever you get your podcasts.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
He
The following episode was recorded before the WGA sag Aftra
strikes of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Since we taped this episode, sadly, a war is broken
out between Israel and Palestine and the Middle East, and
today's episode highlights the work of UNISEF in Egypt, where
they are currently at the front lines of trying to
advance humanitarian aid to the civilians who are in Gaza.
There are no words that can frame how deeply horrified
(00:28):
we are at the amount of lives lost in such
a short period of time throughout this region. We recognize
that we are a show people would want to turn
two to discuss such matters, but by the nature of
our pre recorded taping schedule, we are not able to
bring on a guest that can speak to this moment
at this time.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
But what we do want to appeal.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
To our audience to do today is to consider financially
supporting Egypt. There's so many displaced people, specifically children, who
decimately desperately need your help. So look to our show
notes for more information. You know, I didn't really travel
that much when I was a young man. My parents
(01:13):
they would travel, but they wouldn't take There were six
kids so they would take us with them. But when
I finally did travel, I remember being struck with a
couple of things. One was that even at feeling like
a worldly type person, you know, I really was living
in a bubble and I didn't really understand things outside
(01:36):
of this country that we live in. And I was
also struck with the fact that outside of the gates
of any resort community, there are a lot of people
that are living with very, very little, and you'll see
this pretty much anywhere you're gonna go. And it brought
(01:58):
me to a point of view that I had to
really look a little bit more carefully at everything that
I had and at the privilege that I've experienced in
my life, and to try to think outside of this
relatively small world that I have created here. Traveling across
(02:20):
the country also has allowed me to do that, you know,
as an actor, sometimes I'll go to places that are
not on anybody's tourist map, but they happen to be
places where we are filming.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And rather than just being there.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
As a tourist, if you go as an actor, you
really have to stop and live someplace, and you know,
find yourself to the laundromat or the target or whatever
it is, a grocery store, and you know, it's really
really a great thing. First off, to see the commonality
between us in that we all have this desire to
be safe and take care of our children and have
(02:57):
food and shelter. And also the disparity between the haves
and the have nots has always been a really powerful thing,
which really leads me to this conversation that I'm having
today with Alyssa Milano. She's been involved with an Egyptian
organization that's sponsored by UNISEEF. It brought up a lot
of feelings about the lack of social support in many
(03:20):
parts of the world where people are just striving to
make a better life for themselves. So, Leana, I'm glad
you're here.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Alyssa Milano is here in person.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
With me, very very excited to have this amazing actress, entrepreneur, activist, producer, writer, author.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
This is why I'm so tired.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I mean, I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
What I was thinking was, how do you find time
to come down to hang out with me? I really
do appreciated the time time, and you're just coming from
a television appearance today. You got a lot I mean,
what a fascinating.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Career you've had. Well, first off, we do this dumb thing.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It is six degrees of may, not really may, but
six degrees in general.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And and so we do this thing.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
But you know, I was thinking about a connection that
I don't even know if you're aware of this maybe, but.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Where the day takes you? Do you remember that one?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So the director of that, Mark Rocker. The next movie
I was in, was called Murder in the First and
Mark was a fantastic director. I mean I wanted to
do he did. Yeah, he sadly passed away. I guess,
you know, kind of a troubled guy, but really an
(04:54):
amazing director. And and I wanted to do Murder in
the First based on where.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
They takes it.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, which if anybody hasn't seen it, that's a good
one to pull up.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Still incredibly relevant too.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, how did you end up? How did you end
up in that movie? It was a big cast.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I think I just auditioned. I don't remember. It was
a very long time, like the last years.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I know, I know, I know, that is a long
long time. Yeah, But you grew up in the city, right,
I was.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Born in Brooklyn and then we moved to Staten Island, okay,
because someone got shot in the front yard of our
apartment in Brooklyn. Oh wow, this was it was in Bensonhurst.
This was during the race riots. So what year was
regular seventy six? And then we moved to Staten Island,
(05:50):
you know, because that was like that was my parents
making it and giving us, you know, the life that
that a child deserved.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So that was moving on up to get the stand, yes.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Exactly, and lived in Staten Island.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Talk out who's the boss and what did your parents do?
Speaker 5 (06:07):
My mom was a fashion designer and my dad was
in insurance. Okay, so not anywhere near the industry except
my mom and dad were.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
My dad was a musician, so.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
I grew up with incredible live music and my mom
sketching in her in her sketchbook. And she used to
do these fashion shows instead of doing them during fashion
week like you know, the normal way she she would
do them in clubs at night, like after a whole
day of fashion shows during fashion week. And one of
(06:43):
her dancers, slash Models, was.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
An actor and had her equity card and used to
go in for open auditions all the time.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
She was also my babysitter so she unbeknownst to my.
Speaker 6 (06:58):
Parents, it's very convenient when your babysitter has an equity card.
She she took me up for an open anti audition
where she was auditioning for the ensemble.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
And we got there.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Your parents didn't know this was happening.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Had no clue until the last round, which was like,
I don't know nine hours later.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
And she looked at me.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
And I was, you know, looking at the stage, and
I didn't know what they were doing. I was seven,
but they were singing and dancing and I love to
do that, so I guess I was looking longingly and
she said, do you want an audition? And I was
like sure, I don't know what that means. There were
fifteen hundred kids that were there, and four were.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Picked out of the fifteen hundred.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Wow, and that's did you have a song prepared?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
I mean sang happy Birthday? Because I didn't have a song?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Wow?
Speaker 7 (07:49):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Okay, well you had that? When did you bring the
sheet music for it?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
He knew it? You know it? Okay? Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So so I mean, I love this is the greatest
story because, for one thing, the idea that you're an.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Actress and a babysitter.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And you have to but you but you got an audition, right,
you got to go to the audition. You can't you
can't not go to the audition that that she drags
you along. So did you get you got this part?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I got the part?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And what was it? A bus and truck?
Speaker 5 (08:18):
We tour a second natural national touring company for eighteen months.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Wow, And I'm assuming it's it's Annie.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
I know I played July.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Oh, I don't know. I don't know that one, okay.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
And I understudied for Molly, which was the Little One.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Okay, So I'm I'm not familiar with the show that one.
I don't know if I've ever saw it. But so,
what what does your dad play?
Speaker 5 (08:41):
My dad plays everything, piano, guitar, He's just one of them.
And now he's a music editor for films. He started
that when he was like forty.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
He just woke up and he was.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
Like, you know what, I think would put my knowledge
of music to good and my love of film to
good use.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
And he does Michael Mann movies and like he's.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
So he's doing what he loves. He's doing its opposed
to insurance exactly, now was it?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I mean I don't know if anybody outside of like
the New York experience would quite understand this, because I
think we people just kind of tend to lump New
York into one sort of bundle, and but I would
think that benson Hurst to Staten Island might have a
certain level of culture. Shock or not so much? Did
(09:27):
they feel pretty similar?
Speaker 5 (09:28):
I think I was so young, but I think the
thing that I recognized was that we were going from
an apartment to a house with backyard and you know,
all those.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Things that I'm sure the school was different, Yes, was
it public school or.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
A public school? I went to PS thirty two and
twenty four until I.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
Got into into acting, and then I was tutored on
the set, you know, for most of my academic career,
which I actually think was a very important thing for me,
because I am dyslexic, and so working with a teacher
or a tutor one on one enabled me to learn
at my own pace and also instilled this love of
(10:08):
learning that I still have.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
As I always like to say, thank dog, I'm not
not dyslexic. But so you, uh, how old were you
when you started working in television?
Speaker 5 (10:18):
So I was ten when I got Who's the Boss,
the pilot and eleven the first year, and we wrapped
when I was nineteen.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Oh my, what, yes, it was forever. It was my
entire childhood.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
You so interesting? Go ahead, Sorry, Well it was wild.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Because you know, when you think about TV now, you know,
if you get a couple of million viewership because it's
so liquidated because there's so many options, that was a
big deal. But then there were there. It wasn't even Fox, right,
so it was ABC, NBC, and CBS, and to be
a top ten show meant that you were getting twenty
(10:55):
million viewers a week.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It's incredible you think about. Yeah, the difference in today.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
And also the other difference is like when the first
year when we aired, we were up against Family Ties
and there was just no way and we were all
the way on the bottom of the Nielsen ratings, you know,
which actually meant something then. But ABC believed in the
show and just stuck with it and found a time
slot that worked.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
This is so long ago.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
Our second season, Happy Days was before our show, So
Happy Days was at eight pm, as The Boss was
at eight thirty, and because of that time change, we became,
you know, the number one show in the nation, which
which meant a lot at that point.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So how does that.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, what's also interesting about that to me is
that boy talk about some formative years ten to nineteen.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
I mean, that was the culture shock was not right, and.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You'd never lived in California. Obviously your whole family moved
out to California.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
They didn't move the first year because I had my
brother and I are ten years apart.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
My mom like, this is never going.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
To go ten years old or younger, younger, I'm going.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
To say here, you know, you guys come back. Television
shows don't make it. There's no way. So just my
dad and I went, which was amazing. I had a
whole year with my dad in California, and it was
that was a very formative point in my life because
(12:25):
I just wanted to do everything he did.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
So my love for sports came from that era. My my.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
Intrigue in politics and political activism was during that time.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I learned so much about.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Ten years old, you developed a feeling for politics and
political activism.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Yes, yes, but remember this was at a time that
was so it was eighty two, HIV aids started became
very prevalent. The quote unquote which now we see as
we're recognized as being super racist, the war on drugs.
I mean, there's pictures of me in the White House
with Nancy Reagan, like, you know, just say no at
(13:09):
that age, but I think, I think, you know, back
it was such a different time, and.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
But not because I was. I was able to.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
At a very young age, especially with HIV AIDS and
the fear surrounding it, I was able to recognize that
that fear was being.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Used for political purposes.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
And the reason why I was able to recognize that
is I became friends with Ryan White, you know, Who's
the boss was so big, and the culture shock for
me was that I was a very introverted kid. I
was an artist. I grew up like not acting in
(13:57):
front of a live studio audience. That did not come
easy for me, and so the fame at such a
young age was very uncomfortable, very odd. Fame is weird
and at you know, twelve thirteen years old, when you're
going through puberty and then you're showing up on set
(14:19):
and there's a script called Sam's First Bra and you're
just like, you know, and you're you know, it's it's
it was, and being a young girl at that time
and the sexualization of young women.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
And it was just hard. It was hard.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
And I got a phone call just to give you
an idea of how obscure my life was, from Elton
John and he said, I'm friends with this little boy
named Ryan White, and he loves you and would you
meet with him? And now, Ryan, for those that don't know,
he was kicked out of school because he was HIV
(14:55):
positive from a blood transfusion and the the whole fear
around HIV at the time was that you could get
it from casual contact, which is why he was kicked
out of school. He fought for the right to go
back to school. He spoke in front of Congress and
he and I became friends after this meeting.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
And how old were you at the time.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I was fifteen and he was fifteen.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Oh, he was fifteen, Okay, And the.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Two of us, I think really connected on feeling othered
and feeling like we didn't really fit in anywhere, and
I loved him dearly. I say activism is a great
love story for me because I started in love and
(15:46):
the moment was when Ryan asked me to go on
TV and kiss him to prove that you couldn't get
HIV AIDS from casual contact, and I did.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
That moment changed everything for me.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I mean, for a fifteen year old to have that
kind of that kind of just a foresight to see
how powerful a moment this would be, and also to
be able to overcome what was clearly being fear message
to us at the time is just I mean, I
(16:25):
so admire you for doing that.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
How did your parents feel about that?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Totally supportive? Totally supportive?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
And what about the what about the show and the network?
I mean, would you have you gotten you know, push
back from from them? It was from the man, as
they say.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
It was right around the time when Judith Light also
started really fundraising.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
For HIV eight's so and Elton was on board.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
And Elton yes, and so you know, I think I
think the public had a really hard time with it
because here was, you know, how I was always presented
was America's sweetheart, and those that believed were bought into
the fear mongering.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
You know, I got a lot of hate mail.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
So I always people say to me all the time, like,
how do you deal with the trolls on social media?
It's like I've been I've been trolled since I kissed
Ryan White on the Phil Donna You show, like that's oh, that's.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Where it was the Phil Donna.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
So yeah, so and it changed my life. And I
got to tell you, I think more.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
Than anything, I was like, oh, like I could be
uncomfortable being famous, or I could do this with my fame,
and I I gotta tell you, like, I think the
rebellion that young people go through, like that was my
fucking rebellion. I was like, I'm gonna piss people off.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
M h, I'm.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
Going to do things that change narratives. And so it
was it was Ryan that gave me that gift. And
you know, I've been an activist ever since. But they
were without social media. You know, people weren't aware of
of the philanthropy or what.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I was doing.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Sure, well, I mean I think that you know, we
always we always can find about a billion things that
social media is not good for. But when it comes
to activism and things of a charitable nature's nature, sometimes
it's really can be a very very powerful tool well.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
And also like controlling your own content, right, like I
was able to say this is this is where I'm
going to volunteer my time, this week, whereas you know,
thirty years ago you had to be invited to do
an interview to talk about, you know.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Being.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
A part a progressive part of the community, right you weren't.
You weren't handed those opportunities, And now those opportunities are
right in front of us. We can actually control the
content that gets out there. So that was a big change.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
So I guess I guess what I'm wondering is that
from that point on, you're fifteen, you still have this
long road in front of you. But in terms of
the other stuff that you do, singer and an actress,
doing movies multiple subsequent I don't know how many series
have you done.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I probably I did.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Another one that went pretty years called Charmed I was Armed.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yeah, yeah, So that's I mean, you have this like
kind of ongoing career. How do you well.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
First off, in your heart, do you still like the
acting part of it or is it a way to
just be continued to be in people's awareness so that
you can do the activisim?
Speaker 5 (19:47):
I do think that there is an element of one
feeding the other that I'm very aware of, because acting
is not what is fulfilling to men.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It's not okay and I.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Think the reason being is not. It's not because oh
I've been doing it for so long.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It's like, what for me, you can take that part
out if there's any casting director, No, I don't.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Mean they all know.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
No.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
For me, it's just, you know, I've worked really hard
to attempt to heal wounds inside of my being. So
to go in and have to like.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
Pickt those scars, that's interesting. Like I fought really hard
to be the person I am today, and to have
to go back and like dredge up some kind of
heartache or trauma or pain for the sake of someone
else's vision and script and art just doesn't make a
(20:44):
whole lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
For me at this point.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
That's so interesting because I actually have I mean, this
is not a judgment for me. It's sort of the
opposite in that when I do that, I find it
very therapeutic, you know, when I'm gods, when I'm able
to go to dark places, when I'm able to play
characters that act out on horrible impulses, it I come
(21:10):
away from it with a greater sort of understanding myself.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Do you do like closure exercises? I'm not sure what
that is, So like what I just do it. Like
I did a movie called Brazen for Netflix, and my
sister dies on page six. So the whole movie, I'm
like trying to find the killer and crying and the
whole thing. And this was the first first of all
we used an intimacy coordinator, not only for the love
scenes but also for the emotional.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Meanwhile, great idea, because a lot of times, well we've
we've come around to then maybe people that are listening
don't even realize what intimacy coordinator, but it is what
it sounds like.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
If you're in a situation where you.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Have to be intimate with another actor, whether it's I
mean anything from a you know, a kiss or an
embrace to a hardcore sex scene, there's somebody that's going
to kind of walk everybody through that and discuss and
keep people feeling safe. But a lot of times, and
we have stuntmen and stunt coordinators that are supposed to
(22:12):
coordinate actions so that you.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Don't get hurt hurt, but a lot of.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Times there my daughter recently did a film where she
was just from in the entire movie, you know, in
terror or emotional crime, and it took a really big
toll on her and.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Your body doesn't know you're faking it.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, your body doesn't know you're faking it. Right.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
So what this intimacy coordinator did and what I started
working with my therapist after, is you know, allowing yourself say,
you know, whether it be with the other actor, the
scene partner, or the director, I'm going to go to
a place and I hope you make me feel safe
in this place, and you're sort of opening yourself up
(22:55):
to the vulnerability that it's going to take to do
the scene.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
But then you also.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Close it off, close it off after the.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Scene, you say, Okay, thank you for making me feel safe. Body,
I'm letting that go. And whether that be you know,
sometimes it's a smell for me, Like I'll say to myself,
when I smell the lavender that's on my wrist, I'm
going to know it's over. But just closing off that
emotion so I'm not bringing it at home, so I'm
(23:23):
not like a festering wound.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And that's very that's cool.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I got another word for it. It's called leaving your work
at the office. I mean, yes, yes, but I have to.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Say work is funky, it is, it's weird.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
I mean, it's weird. I love it still, I mean,
I really do.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
But but you know, the thing is is that what
I find is in the course of the shooting of
whatever it is, I can't turn it on and off
like a tap.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I'm good at saying, Okay, honey.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I'm home, how was your day, But it's always kind
of there, you know what I mean, underneath the surface.
When they say wrap on the whole movie, I'm done,
I say goodbye to that guy.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
I don't want to see him. I don't want to
see the clothes. Like people take their clothes. It's like the.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Worst thing I've ever it.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Took one coat home and I actually still wear it
because it's like the greatest coat in the world.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
But otherwise I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But maybe maybe the character was in it was in
a happy place when you wore that coat.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Maybe yeah, So I mean that's that's the difference.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
But I also think that there's a lot of actors
who you know, are of a caliber that I will
never be, which I'm totally fine with that.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Do have what you're talking about.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Which is this natural instinct to go to use the
places that already exist in them and kind of get
off on it, like kind of love that part of it.
And then there's actors that I know who go to
that place, can't shake it, and I mean, I'm sure
you know then go into a massive depression for six
(25:00):
months or a year afterwards.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, well, listen to Nana.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I've been at that a long time, and there's I've
seen a lot of people fall off. You fall off
you you you, you know, somehow implode or or drugs
or alcohol or or whatever it happens to be that
it is.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
You know, if if I don't want to turn this
into a poor us, it's so hard for us acts.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
But but you know there there, it does have its challenges,
but you get such joy.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Well, well you tell me, do you get.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Joy from the activism and is it constantly feeding you
in the way that acting does not.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Yes, I do think that there's something incredibly fulfilling for me.
I'm also able to understand that it's not for everybody,
but for me in particular, it has given my life,
meaning that you know, I'm a girl from Brooklyn. The
fact that I'm an ambassador for UNICEF is mind boggling
(26:02):
to me. And I take the responsibility very seriously. But
also it's also really frustrating, right, because you're allowing yourself
to be vulnerable and to be impacted by these experiences.
And that's what I think makes someone a powerful activist,
is that you are boots on the ground, you are
(26:24):
putting yourself, you are getting arrested, you are putting yourself,
you know, on the protest line. But it's also really
frustrating because there are very few wins, and I think
I think the lesson has been is the the journey
is the win, right.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
But I look at people like Alice Paul, who wrote
the Equal.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Rights Amendment in nineteen twenty died. You know, after Row
never saw the era implemented into our constitution. I'm still
fighting for what with those sixteen or sixteen words are
to be put in our constitution. Women have no protection
in our constitution other than the nineteenth Amendment, which is
(27:13):
the freedom to vote. So what that teaches me is like,
I can't be attached to the outcome because I might
not see it in my lifetime.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
So you have to be attached to the process.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
You have to love the process, and you have to
be okay with incremental wins.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
That's really hard, really hard. It's really hard, really hard.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well, I would also think that it's at some point
when you spend that much of your time focused on
the ills of the world of the you know, the
lack of justice or you know, equality, or that it
starts to just become I don't know, just kind of
(27:59):
overwhelming after a while. I would think that when you
spend that much of your day really focused on it.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
But what's interesting is is that the vastness of the
problem or problems that humanity faces for me personally, has
kind of made my world smaller interesting. It's made my like, well,
I have to do what I can and the acceptance
of not being able to change everything, as heartbreaking as
(28:27):
that can be sometimes and what I've seen is really
really traumatic.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
But it's like I was listening to Richard Branson.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Speak once and he said the greatest thing, which is
that it just clicked in my head where I was like,
that's what it feels like. Everything is so big, it
feels like problems are so enormous and insurmountable. But if
we all focus on our own circles, then eventually all.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
The circles hopefully will overlap and the world will be
a better place.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
I love that and I love it too, and it's
part of you know, when I went to Egypt with
with UNSEF, it's part of what I loved so much
about the Dawi program because Dawi the word means a
voice that resonates.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
If you are inspired by today's episode, please join us
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(29:45):
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Speaker 2 (29:53):
We have Dina Heikeel here from Dowie Girls Empowerment Initiative
in Egypt, which is part of uniceffor or it's a it's.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
A program that UNSEF is partners on that it funds,
and Dina is just you know, as being an ambassador
for UNISEF is amazing. But the unsung heroes are the people,
and there's thousands of them throughout the world that are
UNICEF field officers that are really giving up their entire
(30:29):
lives to make a better world for the children of
the world.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Dina, can we bring you on?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Elis was just going off about all the great work
that you do. Tell me how did you get involved
with UNSEF and specifically with diwy.
Speaker 7 (30:49):
So Basically, I've been working in development for probably the
past eighteen years at Vacracy Gender and so I got
into UNISEFF and and gender really was my passion, and
I had the amazing opportunity to be part of this
girl's Empartment program from the very beginning and designing it
(31:10):
with different partners. But the true beauty behind it really
was that we didn't just sit in an office and
decide what to do. We actually went to the field.
We designed it with the girls, for the girls, by
the girls, and we got the real voices and what
their needs are, and we kind of try to design
(31:33):
something that is substantial to them more than anything, and
we try to get everyone involved, I mean institutions, governments,
civil society, organizations, communities, and it really was about how
do we create this movement, this echoed is something that
(31:53):
resonates with everyone. To have a program for girls where girls. Really,
the core of it is about choices, girls being able
to make these choices based on informed decisions, having access
to the right information, the right services, and really being
(32:14):
able to voice their opinions, to speak up, but in
a safe and supportive environment. So we get the parents involved,
we get the communities, we even get the decision makers.
You know, they're just saying that if you don't have
a place on the table, you grab a chair. Those
girls didn't just grab a chair. They built an entire
(32:34):
table and we just sat on it. And we try
to build with them something that is substantial and that
resounds with what their needs are.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
And just to give some context, there are many positive
trends that are going on in Egypt right now, but
I do want to just say girls in Egypt, so
just to really give you context of how amazing Dinas
were is girls in Egypt are less likely to achieve
their full potential. For example, there are there are still
(33:10):
harmful practices such as female genital mutilation and child marriage,
and girls are five times more likely than boys to
be unemployed or receive any kind of education or training.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
So you know, when you listen to Dina speak and
she speaks so.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Eloquently about this program that she created that is literally
hundreds of hundreds of thousands of girls amazing, and millions
of people from the online work are being reached. You
have to understand that this is a major, big deal.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
This is not like, you know what, what we would.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Consider equity and empowerment, gender equity and empowerment in the
United States. This is there are barbaric practices that are
still going on in rural Egypt that needs to stop.
And what they do in Dina's program, just to give
you specifics, there's these sharing circles where girls sit around
(34:13):
in a circle and a facilitator will read a story
about let's say, female genital mutilation, and the girls will
talk about how they feel, what they would do to
protect each other, how they would speak to their family
if it's something that they don't want, and it is
(34:33):
so incredibly powerful. And then you go next door in
the room right next door, and there's a sharing circle of.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
All the boys.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Oh, I was going to ask about that, which I.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
Find maybe even more important, where the boys are talking
about how they could be more supportive to the girls
and their family, to their sisters.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Is it hard Dina to get parents to allow young
people to participate in this when there is such a
history of just you know, this this point of view.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
I mean, the thing is people fear what they don't know,
and if you go in with the mindset you know
that you're basically taking their girls away from them and
telling them what to do and what not to do,
they will definitely resist. And the beauty of Delwi was
that the community are part of the process. They're part
(35:30):
of that journey of change, you know, and whatever happens,
whatever these norms that may prevail, it's not out of hate,
you know. It's sometimes parents think that they're doing it
out of love because they think this is what's best
for them, and so getting them on board and involving
(35:50):
them definitely, like Alisa said, the circles are a huge
breakthrough because the girls find the safe space, but the
parents also find themselves involved in a dialogue with the
children later on, so that they also feel they're part
of it.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
You know.
Speaker 7 (36:06):
By the end of the day, as units have, we
believe parents do the best that they can possibly do
for their children. They just sometimes need to know how
and the training to do so. And navigating through this
there's so many difficult things out there, and and the
(36:26):
idea is that we all need to come together and
power through that We really is about the social movement
that everyone coming along and and girls will feel empowered
when they feel that they're not just hurt or listen
to that they are supported by allies. And whether these
allies are their own families, their own communities, the government,
(36:48):
everyone really has a role in this and and and
that is the powerful message behind it.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
And there are generational conversations literal where the mother will
facilitator will ask a question like what is the biggest
hope you have for your daughter? And they will be
able to and sometimes you know, communicate looking at each
other in the eyes for the first time, having these
really deep conversations. And what I think Dina and UNISEF
(37:19):
we're so smart to do is as this process is happening,
they've educated and empowered members of the DOWI program to
then be facilitators.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
I got you right.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
So it is sustainable, all right.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
So it's a ripple effect and it keeps spreading. Are
there any specific stories. I don't want to put you
on the spot, but that come to mind, Like any
specific stories you can share about how this affected someone
a young person.
Speaker 7 (37:49):
I mean absolutely, we have hundreds of stories. Actually, the
way the slogan of Dewi is your story completes their story.
The idea that stories can be so relatable to us
as human beings is actually the core of Dewi. Where
Egyptians were storytellers from hieroglyphics on the wall, just conversing
with each other. So we kind of use that as
(38:11):
a way that people share their own stories and and
and in a way it resonates with others. It's not
something completely far away from the communities. And so just
off the top of my head, the village that actually, Uh,
Lisa and I visited in Egypt, there were child marriage
incidents and and and one of the girls, La actually
(38:36):
stood up to that. She decided that she wants to
continue her education, and her parents supported her massively. Uh
And not only l has become a role model for
other girls, but her parents were actually an inspiration to
other parents. You know that a girl can achieve so
much by not going through this horrible crime of child
(39:00):
marriage and and and while being supported. Ella actually not
only influenced girls in her communities, but Ella actually was
one of the Deli ambassadors that stood in front of
Egypt's first Lady and asked for the country's support to
Delwi and she got it for her and for all
(39:20):
the girls in Egypt in a huge I mean I
got goosebumps just sitting there and watching this, and it
was absolutely amazing. And it shows that the commitment here
that yes, UNICEF is definitely supportive, but it really is
about the girls. It really is about the communities and
(39:42):
the sustainability. Like Elissa said of this, that they will
carry this on. They will draw murals on walls with
girls instead of hiding their faces, and and and the
institutions of offering the right services, the right information so
these girls can really thrive and reach the potential.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
So a beautiful part of us sharing circles too is
they take a piece of yarn and every time they
speak they wrap it around their arm. But it's all connected,
and it's to show the connection of the stories. And Dina,
you'll be happy to know that I was asked to
go speak at my brother's i mean my son's class
(40:23):
he's in fifth grade, on immigration, and I actually did
a Dowie circle with yarn where everyone I asked everyone
to share their immigration story and everyone was connected. So
your tools I used in the States, So thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Tell us about it takes a village, the documentary, It
takes a village.
Speaker 7 (40:49):
Yes, So I mean the idea of that we used
to also highlight the positive role models. I mean, we
understand there may be some setbacks, but we also want
to show the whole, right, So what we've decided to
do to kind of highlight these positive role models is
to actually have a documentary about three girls and their
(41:10):
families from three different, completely different areas in Egypt, and
and to kind of show their own journey throughout this
and how they not only stood against some of these
norms and practices, but how their families was there to
support them. And and the three girls are the one
(41:32):
that actually came from uh Fayum.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
The visit the village, we.
Speaker 7 (41:36):
Visit seme and and her dream was actually to become
a movie director and no and nod in Arabic means
light and and she she stood against uh female genital
mutilation in her own city. And and it kind of
(41:56):
walks us through the journey, and it shows how amazing
these girls are. If we just listen to them if
we give them the space, the amount of courage that
they have and the confidence. One of the girls, one
of the mothers of the girls in the movie, was
(42:17):
so moving. She was saying, you know, when I first
had I have three girls, and every time I gave
birth to one of them, people would say, you have
three girls, you don't have children, basically because you know
they're they're resonating the value that it needs to be
a male to to count as a child. And it
was so heartbreaking for her, and she was speaking so
(42:40):
wholeheartedly about this. But then she saw her daughter and
she was directing her own film and gathering the communities,
and the community was impressed by SAME's film, and the
mother stood there in the middle of the community and
she said, we actually, we're so fortunate to capture this
in the doking. She was like, this is my daughter.
(43:02):
I'm so proud of my daughter. I am the mother
of Cemeth. And of course we all burst into tears.
But the idea was how amazing it is when you
provide that space, and it's not only about Semet's lives,
but how many other girls lies can actually be changed,
how many other parents can look and say, I'm the
(43:24):
mother of La, I'm the mother of Nourah, I'm the
father of I'm the brother of And this is the
kind of a pril effect that we're looking for. Egypt
is a massive country. We have nineteen million girls under
the age of twenty. It's huge, and we want to
reach all of them.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Great.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Well, is there a call to action for both of you,
I mean, tell us the people who are listening to this.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
I'm sure it would be interested.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Thank you so gry to help for that opportunity.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
I would just ask everyone to go to UNISEFUSA dot
org slash act now Egypt and you'll find it if
information on how you can help, not only in a
SEF but the amazing Dina and her Dowie program.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Dina, thank you so much for for coming on at
eight o'clock at night, all the way from Egypt.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I can't believe that our connection is this good. It's good.
It actually works. Yeah, yeah, we don't even Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I've had much much worse zooms down the street than
I have, So something is working here. We're really appreciative
and Alsa, thank you so much for being here, taking
time out of your busy day. Oh my gosh, you're
so you're so busy. On top of everything else, you
have a Guardians of the Galaxy spaceship named after you.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (44:40):
True?
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, well you know that that took a lot.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
No, thank you for highlighting Dina's work, because I'm very
privileged to do what I do. But it's it's Dina,
it's the it's it's the unsung heroes. It's the grassroots
organizations that deserve all the credit.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
And I love you very much, Tina, Thank.
Speaker 7 (45:03):
You, thank you. I love you too. Thank you so
much for having me. And it really, it truly, in
all sense of the world, picks a village. So it's
not just me, it's the entire team that's behind this.
It's you. It's it's you, Alyssa, it's you, Kevin for
having us. Thank you so so much.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
You heard of folks. It takes a village. Thank you, guys. Hey, guys,
thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
If you want to learn more about the Dawi initiative
that UNISEF had to www dot UNISEF dot org slash Egypt,
you can find the link in.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Our show notes. And if you.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Like what you're here, you make sure you subscribe to
the show and tune in to the rest of our episodes.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
You can find six Degrees with Kevin Bacon on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, well wherever you get your podcasts.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
He
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