September 24, 2024 • 43 mins
In part two of our Overly Attached Girlfriend series, we talked to the OAG herself -- Laina Morris. She revisits the viral moment she didn't see coming in 2012, the weirdness of being in a Delta Airlines safety video, and navigating what a career online and at the mercy of the algorithm looks like while struggling with depression.
Laina's been away from regular posting for the last five years as she navigated it all, and she and Jamie get into how to maintain your self-worth and share yourself safely. Slap on your scary eyes, baby, we're going in.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also Media.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Time. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where we talk
to the Internet's main characters and see how their moment
affects did them and what that says about us and
the Internet. My name is Jamie Loftus, and I genuinely,
deeply love movies that take place entirely on a computer screen.
I'm not interested in why you don't respect these films.
(01:15):
They're the best ones. And if you think I'm wrong,
maybe you haven't seen Unfriended. But I would like to
see a romcom in the computer movie genre. We got
to get away from the horror, we got to get
away from the thrillers. Everyone loves computer and today it's
part two of our look at the Overly Attached girlfriend
saga that started in twenty twelve and continues into today.
(01:36):
So if you haven't listened to the first part of
this series, kindly do that now. I'm serious, Go listen
to it. Okay, I think they're gone. To those who
have listened to part one, here's a quick refresher from
last week, because I know that two news cycles happen
a day now and you might need it. Lena Morris
(01:56):
was just a college student when The overly Attached girlfriend
memes first came to prominence during the summer of twenty twelve,
an Internet era where being a full time YouTuber was
just starting to look possible, but was still kind of
nebulous in what that would actually look like. Around the
time Lena left school to pursue YouTube full time from
her home base in Texas, she wasn't a part of
(02:19):
that generation of YouTubers that flocked to LA. The platform
itself was putting extreme emphasis on watch time, or how
much time a user spent on YouTube, and tweaked its
recommendation algorithm to keep people watching for as long as possible,
and if you know anything about YouTube, you know that
(02:39):
this super worked. But for Lena and creators on the
platform then and now, that meant they were encouraged to
produce a lot of content because the algorithm of this
time would boost users who posted often, which inadvertently rewarded
overwork and sometimes underthinking. Lena worked as a successful YouTuber
(03:02):
for over half a decade, at first just as the
overly attached girlfriend character, but later she wrote and performed
sketches as herself. She did reaction videos, she did get
to Know Me videos, and She became a familiar and
popular presence on the platform for years, while never getting
caught up in some of those influencer shit shows you
might associate with this era of YouTube, and from the outside,
(03:25):
she seemed pretty fulfilled doing it. But in twenty nineteen,
Lena publicly admitted that this wasn't necessarily true. She had
been struggling with depression for some time and found that
the grind and self inflicted pressure of a YouTube career
had exacerbated that depression further, and so she said at
the time she was going to take a step back
(03:47):
from YouTube to take care of herself and wasn't sure
when she would be back. But just this past summer,
five years after first leaving YouTube, Lena posted again, reflecting
on the time away and wondering if, now that she'd
had the time to work on herself, if it wasn't
time to give YouTube another shot. I was lucky enough
(04:08):
to talk with Lena shortly after this video was released,
and she is, as you're about to hear, the coolest,
most humble, kind person. We talk about that first viral
moment back in twenty twelve, that era of the Internet
and the concept of burnout, especially during a time where
it wasn't a common talking point among creatives. So, without
(04:30):
further ado, widen your eyes and throw on a high
contrast T shirt because this is my interview with the
Overly Attached Girlfriend Lena Morris, and we talked for some time,
so this interview has been edited for time and clarity. Enjoy.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
My name is Lena. I kind of got my start
on the internet about twelve years ago. I posted a
video that became a meme called the Overly Attached Girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You are like an internet legend. I feel.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I want to talk about, of course, like the moment
where everything first happened, but like you built such a
unique career. But first I wanted to talk about the
fact that you posted a video for the first time
in forever a couple of.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Weeks ago on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Tell me about this, the decision to come back to
YouTube after five years, right.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Yes, five years. I wanted to post a video just
like a five years later update type of video, which
what I ended up posting wasn't even there. Weren't really
even updates in that video, but I was thinking about
it when I posted. I posted a video five years ago,
kind of like quitting YouTube and talking about my mental
(05:40):
health and why I needed to quit and all of
those things, and the reaction to that was so like
overwhelmingly positive in a way I didn't expect. And I
got a lot of like comments and messages from people
that I think I mentioned in my recent video like
I saved them and I still read them now. They
it's just like a very over wilmingly great reaction that
(06:01):
I wanted to come back and sort of acknowledge that
and talk about it a little bit. And when I
started thinking about that and brainstorming like ideas for a
video or like do I even want to post one?
Do I not? Whatever, I just started getting this feeling
of like, you know, like maybe I actually want to
post multiple videos, or maybe I want to try and
like go back, which is not a thing I ever
(06:22):
thought it would happen. It wasn't in my head at all.
I think if it was, I probably couldn't come back.
So I decided to just like post a video five
years later and see how that felt and then sort
of take next steps based on how that felt. And
it felt pretty good. I haven't posted a video since then.
I wanted to after, to be honest, right after I
(06:44):
posted it, things in my personal life got a little crazy,
and I just like haven't gotten back to it, and
I wish I did. I think I still will. I
don't know, but I think that also seeing the reaction
to that video as well, like and that feeling good
sort of maybe having a grasp on my mental health
and stuff like. I don't know. I think there's a
lot of things that make it make sense to me
(07:06):
five years later. Yeah, a little like unexpected for me too.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, welcome back, maybe.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
So I guess I want to go back back because
I feel like most of the interviews that I've found
that you've done over the years, I am curious just
a little bit about how you grew up.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Where did you grow up, What was life like?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Ooh fun? Okay, So I was born and raised in Texas,
North Texas, like that was Fort Worth area because I
lived there until I was like twenty six. I'm the
youngest of four kids. I went to college in Texas.
I had been going to college for like a couple
of years when the overly touch girlfriend stuff started and
(07:52):
I decided to like take a break, and I haven't
gone back to sort of pursue that but life right
before the meme was ver very much just like, yeah,
going to school, working part time, just kind of like
a very normal I was going to school to be
a teacher. I knew that, Like I didn't really want
to do that. I was just sort of in this
like what am I going to do? Stage when everything
(08:13):
took off.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
So did you grow up performing? Were you interested in performing?
Speaker 4 (08:19):
No? I mean I was the youngest of four kids,
so in a way, it's.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Like jockey for attention.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, Like in that way, I performed every day of
my life. Yeah, I was certainly interested in it. I
think if I maybe had. I think if I had,
maybe I would have been a kid that would have
enjoyed probably like theater or something like that. I just like, never,
it's never a thing that I did. I always really
liked comedy. I do think that, like this is so
(08:45):
embarrassing and obnoxious, But there was something about the attention
of like being the class clown or like something in
my face, Like there was something there that was like
I want, I like the feeling of like making people laugh,
getting that reaction. That was certainly there. But there was
no performing in any way, And.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
That makes like your trajectory all the more interesting where
it's like it truly is like an overnet.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The video, the original video. I went back and watch it.
It's still very funny.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It still hits thank you and thanks and overnight that
changes your life in this huge way. So I guess
before we get to that, at the point that you
made the original video, what was your relationship with the
internet like around that time in college?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Wow, I don't know. Let me think for us, Agad.
I'm trying to think of, like what I guess I
had a Facebook. I'm trying to think of what social
media looked like back then. I feel like back then too,
it was always like there was like one social media
at a time, Like when I was younger, I had
like a zanga than a mice face, then a Facebook,
Like it was all just like one. It wasn't this
like explosion of all of the you know, Instagram, Twitter,
(09:51):
TikTok whatever it is now. Yeah, I mean I had
a Facebook. There was no I didn't have like any
public social media. Maybe I had a Twitter. Instagram wasn't
a thing yet. I didn't even know what right it
was until I posted the video. So honestly, remember I'm like,
where did I get my news and information? I don't know.
I guess, yeah, I guess it was just mostly like Facebook.
(10:13):
And I mean I watched a decent amount of YouTube.
I knew that, like some people were doing it as
a job. I knew that was like kind of a thing.
I watched Jenna Marbles, I really liked Bo Burnham. I
watched I think a little bit of like Jimmy Titrow
stuff like that. But I all, my mind is going
to his.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Facebook as forever ago as the Internet in twenty twelve
feels it's that you could still set your relationship status
to It's complicated.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It just like walk me.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Through the moment you hear of this Justin Bieber contest.
What are the parameters of the contest?
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yeah, so I heard about this contest. So maybe that's
the thing I was doing on the internet because I
found that somehow, I.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Was like, I wonder where that even.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Yeah, I don't know, I somehow came across this contest.
Justin Bieber was having so he had this new fragrance
coming out called Girlfriend, and he had this song that
had just been released called Boyfriend, and he asked his
fans to write a parody of the song from a
girlfriend's perspective and upload it to YouTube. Well, I remember
(11:22):
immediately thinking like, I want to make this funny. How
can I make it funny? I'll make it just like
kind of creepy stocker girlfriend whatever. I remember just like
being really excited to write this song. I had this
piece of paper that I took I think I took
it to work with me that day and I was
like in between like working and I was like writing these.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Lyrics and where were you waiting?
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I was working at a place called pack and Mail
in Denton, Texas. It was just exactly what it sounds like.
I was in a rush to film the video because
I thought it had to be submitted by a certain time.
I changed out of my work shirt really quickly after
work one day to record it. I just grabbed like
this T shirt that was on the floor of my bedroom,
recorded it on my webcam. I had done like a
(12:03):
couple takes. Maybe I feel like, also, I'm so at
this point in my life, I'm like, what am I remembering?
And what have I said so many times that I
just believe it's true? Yeah, But I do have a
very clear memory who knows where it came from, having
this period of time of this just like instrumental at
the beginning where I didn't know what to do. So
(12:24):
I think on like the last take, I was like,
I'm going to make this like creepy face and just
stare right into the camera. So that's what I did.
I uploaded the video. I posted it to my Facebook
just for like my friends and family to see, and
then someone on my Facebook or something posted it to Reddit.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Was it just a screencap or like the whole video?
Speaker 4 (12:45):
I think posted the whole video, just like a link
to the YouTube video. Then someone on Reddit took a
screenshot from the beginning where I made that face looked
into the camera, and then that became the meme. But
before I went to bed that night, I knew like
the video had taken off a little bit. When I
woke up the next morning, that's when the meme was everywhere.
(13:05):
That's when like the overly attached girlfriend was a thing,
after someone had taken that screenshot and it blew up.
That blew up like separately on Reddit. I guess someone
I think commented on the video and said that they
came from Reddit or something about the front page of
Reddit something like that, and I looked it up because
I was like one to Reddit. Then I started like
reading comments on Reddit and sort of like seeped into
(13:27):
other parts of the Internet. But yeah, I read it
is where it first took off.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And when we come back more with Lena Morris, Welcome
back to sixteenth minute and let's jump right back into
my interview with the overly Attached girlfriend Lena Morris. Take
(13:54):
me through the day that you're realizing that this is
a thing. Do you feel like the meme format like
captured what you were going for originally?
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Oh? Yeah, I think so. I think I'm also like,
I feel very lucky that I'm like in on the
joke of it too. I think amodi memes like don't
have that, which I feel like it became this big
joke online. I just feel like lucky that I'm in
on that joke and it wasn't just like a regular
picture of me smiling and everyone was like, oh look,
this creepy.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Girl having all the internet brain rat knowledge that I have,
knowing like, oh, well, this person was in on the
reason they became famous.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
This person had to meet the moment.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
And decide how do I want to cope with it,
so I think, yeah, that's that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So was it ever uncomfortable in those early days to
like see your image everywhere?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Did it feel like you'd like lost any sort of
like agency over your own image?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Was it exciting?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yeah? It was. I think my memories of that time
are mostly like it was just like really exciting. I
think the Internet certainly took it and ran like I
you know, I didn't call I didn't come up with
overly attached girlfriend like a name for the meme. I
didn't make it a meme. And so I feel like
the Internet very much took this thing and like made
it their own, and it sort of like fell out
(15:09):
of my hands pretty quickly in a lot of ways.
But I remember it just feeling like really cool. I
can't believe this is happening, like it's supposed to here
and now it's supposed to hear. I can't believe like
this person has seen my face. There did come a
point where I felt really disconnected from the meme, and
I will, like even now sometimes obviously it doesn't happen
as often, but I'll just like randomly stumble upon it
(15:31):
every now and then and it feels much more like, oh,
there's my meme rather than like there's me or like
my face or I don't know, there's like some disconnect
that happened at some point. Yeah, I think my overall,
my memory of it is like very positive and like overwhelming,
but in like a very fun, exciting way. I do
think it was out of my hands a bit pretty quickly,
(15:51):
but not in a way it felt negative. Back then,
you could send people messages on YouTube direct messages, and
so my inbox was a little flooded, but mostly with
just like random people. There was like no other way
to contact me at first. Also accept that then when
(16:12):
I posted the second video and that kind of blew
up a little bit as well. That's when I think
I started getting a lot more like people reached. I
had like some management reach out at that time, like
wanting to work together and things like that, but I
think that that was after I sort of kept it
going with that second video.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So there is like sort of this moment where you
post the first video as a joke, you're basically assigned
a character kind of you've written it yourself, but it's
also sort of being co created by people making the meme.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
All right, cool, let's make another one.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
How do you go through this period of deciding, you
know what, I want to keep this going and then
what do I want this to look like?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Well, before any of this happened, I really wanted to
be in entertainment in some capacity and I just never
pursued it because it felt like an impossible thing. I
didn't know what to do. Like I remember talking to
my dad once about like what if I just moved
to LA And then I'm like, but what do I
do when I get there? Or like I don't have money,
Like I don't know. I just remember being like I
want to be in this world, but I don't have
So that was in me a little bit. And I
(17:11):
had made videos with friends like in college and stuff,
just like silly goofy videos that I think were posted
and taken down at some point, and so like it
was in me a little bit, like I remember posting
silly videos with my friends and maybe it was like
on their channel or something and like watching and seeing
like oh I wonder if anyone else will see this whatever?
And that way I was there. So when that took off,
(17:31):
it was like really exciting and I knew some people
were like doing it full time. I started getting like followers.
I made a Twitter, people started following me on Twitter.
I decided to post that second video, and then I
think after the second video, I was like, Okay, I
think this could actually be like a job or like
a thing I could really pursue. And I remember talking
to my parents about it then. And then that's also
(17:53):
when like management reached out. That's when I started thinking like, oh,
this could be a thing I could really pursue and
could be really good. I just thought at that time,
like I'll just go with it for as long as
it works and see what happens. I'm so glad you
mentioned the thing about like my brain not being fully developed,
because I feel like at the time, like being twenty
twenty one, I felt so old. I felt like such
(18:13):
an adult. And then now at thirty three, I can
like look back and I have like you did not
know what was happening to you and your world got
so crazy so quickly. But there was so much of
me at the time, in like my early twenties that
when things got like challenging and there was a lot
of like why can't I figure out how to do this,
how to maintain this whatever I'll have to say. It's
just like validating to hear you say that, because it's
(18:33):
so different, like looking back at that time now versus
being in the thick of it in the moment, and.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
That not only are you young and having to sort
of make these decisions because of the nature of the Internet,
I imagine you had to make them pretty quickly. I mean,
I know that there were This was like the early
days of YouTubers and internet personalities making a full time
living work. So in twenty twelve, like, what was the
kind of.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Advice you were getting? Like, what was the past that.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Was sort of laid before you at this time. I imagine
it's changed a lot over the years, but maybe not.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Oh, it's definitely changed. In fact, when I was thinking
about making a second YouTube video recently, there was a
part of me that's like, I really need to make
something about like becoming a meme in twenty twelve versus
like twenty twenty four. And for some reason, I'd been
getting a lot of people asking me about the Hawktua girl,
And like, I don't know why, because it's such a
vastly different time. What advice would you give her. What
(19:26):
did you ask me the advice I was getting at
the time, So I remember, like I did the thing
that immediately popped into my brain when you asked me
that was I did this interview for a radio station,
like pretty early on. It was one of my very
first interviews I ever heard, and I remember the host
of this radio show trying to like, I don't know,
just like kind of like tell me what I should do,
(19:47):
how I should handle it. And I remember him telling me,
you need to make a Facebook, like a public Facebook.
You need to upload photos of yourself that aren't in character,
like you need to post as Lena. I remember I
came up with a fake last name for that interview
because he was like, you know, you might not want
your last name out there, which I think that's a
huge difference twenty twelve versus now. Everyone's like, oh, don't
(20:09):
give your name out like, which is honestly like kind
of stuck with me. I still don't have my last
name on my socials. That fake last name I gave
back then is still pops up as like people thinking
it's my last name. So like funny advice like that,
but I think would never be given now. Yeah. I
think when I signed with like management, that was like
all new and I was just like, yeah, tell me
what to do.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I don't know, I understand why people are asking you
about how to a girl. There are enough similarities between
the trajectories that I understand why people are asking where
it's like a similar age.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Someone who is in on the joke, and all of
a sudden there's management involved, and it seems like the
question is like okay, what now, Like what do we do?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I went back and sort of went through in like
that first year a lot of mainstream appearances and like
crossing over into mainstream media. But what was that period, Like,
are there any appearances or things that stand out to you?
Speaker 4 (20:58):
I think the craziest you one that hands out to
me and that was like the most fun was I
got to be on Jimmy Fallon. That was so cool.
I just I was that whole experience was awesome. My
manager called me and said, there was like this writer
at Fallon. They were wondering if I would happen to
be in New York at this period time. If so,
like they would want me to do this thing on
the show. And I was like, I will happen to
(21:19):
be in New York at whatever time, Like, yeah, so
I got my own ticket, flew there with my I
took like my best friend with me. It was just
like a magical experience. We got this hotel, you got
like the driver picked us up to take us to
the studio. It was so much fun. That is like
the memory that stands out to me the most.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Once you're on YouTube full time and like adjusting to
that grind, were you balancing it with auditioning for other
stuff and like where where did you want things to
head at that time or were you being pressured in
any particular direction.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
I started posting regularly after that second one. It became
my job pretty quickly, or it just I mean it
became I started making money from it pretty quickly, even
just from like the first video. So I stuck with
YouTube mostly just doing YouTube, and then very quickly I
think the conversation came up just with like friends that
were also doing YouTube and like management and stuff of
like what where do we want this to go? Do
(22:11):
you want to act? Do you want to do a
stand up? Do you want to write? Whatever? I felt
really overwhelmed with like not knowing what to do or
how to do it. I also at the time, I
had a really really difficult time with feeling like I
have to move to LA, like I just have to.
I felt a lot of pressure to do that. I
felt like if I pursue anything in this world, in
(22:31):
this industry, I just have to be there. And I
felt really conflicted with my life in Texas versus like
do I go to LA. It's so like I can't
have I like shouldn't have regrets. But when I look
back and I'm like, I was like, oh, I don't
I hope if I moved to LA, I might break
up with my boyfriends, so I shouldn't do that, And
like I just like little like twenty twenty one year
(22:52):
old thoughts where I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Just totally like yeah, don La.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah. I feel like very quickly I got really stuck
not knowing what to do. I felt a lot of
pressure to figure out what to do. I would start
to think like, Okay, maybe I want to act, and
then I would go back on that and be like
I don't know, Like who am I to like decidle
of a sudden, I'm an actor just because I posted
this like YouTube video. I want to write but I
don't know how to pursue that I wasn't doing like
(23:16):
auditions or anything. But there are things I look back
on now, like there was certainly opportunities that I had
been that I don't have now that I didn't take
because I was just like so afraid or unsure of
what to do. Yeah, and like, I can't really regret
it because I look back at that version of me
(23:37):
and I'm like, of course, like, of course you were overwhelmed.
You had no idea what to do. But at the
same time, it's like, oh my gosh, like the things
I could have done had I just not been afraid
to do them, But yeah, there was no There was
certainly pressure to like do something outside of YouTube, but
there was no I felt very frozen and stuck and
not knowing what direction to go, and I just kind
of didn't and stuck with YouTube.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
When we come back more with the overly Attached Girlfriend
Lena Morris, Welcome back to sixteenth Minute. It's the most
wonderful time of the year. And by that I mean
(24:22):
that for some reason, Pee Wee's Big Adventures back in
theaters and I just got tickets to a haunted hay
Ride and here is the rest of my talk with
Lena Morris. So, when you were making those early videos, yeah,
I mean were you making them completely alone? Like, how
were those early videos coming together once it became your job.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
I was making them alone. I think that's pretty obvious.
If you go back alone, there's no like there's so
many people that I feel like, say, and this is true.
This is true for a lot of people. They'll be like, well,
like doing YouTube, you're like the writer and the director
and you're the actor and you're the editor, and like
anytime I see that, I'm like yeah. But like I
felt like for a very long time like this when
(25:02):
I'm hesitating because I don't want to, I think just
me personally, not anyone else's experience. Like I think I
wasn't putting as much work into it as like for
a long time, I was like getting out of it,
if that makes sense. Like I just felt like this
isn't like that hard. But also I'm not really like
doing anything big. There was no big like production in
my videos. There were a lot of people that were
(25:24):
doing that. I think one thing that I realized recently,
especially with like thinking about coming back to YouTube, I
immediately was sucked into this thing and then felt pressure
to post every week, but with no plan and like
no experience doing it. I was like learning how along
the way, I was learning how to edit as I
was going and thinking about it now, it's like, but
(25:45):
I could be more in that mindset looking at it
as a job in a different way than I think
I did back then. Back then it was so like
I just felt all the time like I don't know
what I'm doing. I have no idea what I'm doing,
and I guess I'll post like this. I look back
at some videos and a lot of them are private
and now for that reason. But I'll look back at
a video, watch it, watch this version of me that
(26:06):
talks for like two minutes, and it's like, Okay, well
see you next week, and I'm like what if I
what did I spend that whole week doing? That's like
that's it. But I think I just like never had
a chance to just like step back and think, like
what do I want this to be? I was just
in it and like I don't know. Very often this
overwhelming feeling of like what am I doing? Like once
or twice a year, I would get together with these
(26:27):
friends at these YouTube conventions. It was the first time,
the only time in the year that I got to
be around people that did what I did and talk
about it and like how are.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You doing this?
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And what do you do for whatever? Like that's just
it was a very like lonely thing that I didn't
have a lot of yeah, like direction except for just
looking at what are other people doing? There was a
whole lot of direction from the outside.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I don't think in the years you were doing YouTube
consistently navigating parasocial relationships, navigating audience expectations, or even perceived
audience expectations.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I'm curious of how you use dealt with the relationship
with your audience.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
That was hard because it was just like a lot
of people all at once, all wanting to see different things,
me not knowing where to take it, what to do.
To be honest, it was like a decent amount of
men on the internet, and that was like really hard
to handle, like navigate how do I handle like these
situations that would come up that sometimes would put me
in a position to feel a little like uncomfortable or
(27:27):
even at certain points like unsafe. It's not a normal
experience for people to like have all these people that
you don't know just like know you and want to
like talk to you and want different things. And that
being said, it's also like really cool. I had a
lot of really good experiences. I think it just took
some time to get used to. It took some time
to figure out how to kind of like disconnect from
(27:49):
this version of me that's online versus my personal life.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And so, at what point in making the regular YouTube
content did you start to struggle with mental health? And
it also seems like some burnout and pressure and yeah,
when did that start?
Speaker 4 (28:05):
It started a year and a half in or so,
or maybe a little sooner than that. I made a
video and I can't actually remember when. This was the
first time I cried on the internet talking about how
like I didn't know what I was doing and I
was unsure. But it was around that time when I
started to just feel like like I didn't have any
direction and I didn't know where to go from there.
(28:27):
There was also like there is something about when you
start way up at the top, which is a very
lucky thing I got to experience having like my first
video go viral, but also there's really like nowhere to
go but down. After that, and so like for a
long time, everything I posted, I'm like, if it doesn't
go viral, I'm failing ridiculous, because especially back then, it's
(28:48):
like you don't get viral videos very often, if at all. Yeah,
I just started to feel like I don't know, I
don't really know what I'm doing. I don't know what
direction to go with this. It's also like I was
at a point in my life where all my friends
are graduating college, starting their careers, and I am like, here,
I am alone in my apartment, film me a silly video.
And there's also something to be said for like working
(29:11):
from home, spending all of your time alone. I think
when I look back now, I'm like a year and
a half or so in that makes sense to me
because that's kind of when the energy and craziness of
like the viral moment sort of started to wear down.
And now it's just like I'm stuck with Okay, now
now what kind of feeling? And I did. I did
drive out of school to pursue that, and that was
(29:32):
some pressure. Like I also just like I struggled with
my mental health for a lot of reasons. I think
that just never having a moment to figure it out
or take a break, or it just sort of spiraled
from there.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I guess how long were you in that holding pattern?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
A long time? When you are like I have to
keep going or I lose this, then you're also creating
content you're not happy with. Or that's my experience. I
honestly think that there was a part of me not
that was like doing it on purpose, but I certainly
wasn't putting my own all into what I was creating,
And I think that that was there was a part
of me that was using it as like kind of
a way to protect myself. Like if I'm not super
(30:08):
happy with what I'm making, then the numbers being bad
or the reaction being bad doesn't hurt as much because
I'm like, oh, yeah, I know, like I didn't try
super hard on that, and that's easier than like putting
my all into this and then failing. I feel like
when you're when you're working your job and you're like
not doing a great job at it, like it's not
normal for like everyone in your life to be able
(30:29):
to go look and see that that's happening. That was
hard because I feel like it's so obvious there's like
numbers right there in front of you that people are seeing. Yeah,
I think I was burnt out without knowing what burnout
was at that time, and feeling like I don't know
what I'm doing, I feel pressure whatever. I remember other
YouTubers reaching out to me after that and being like
I feel that too, and like You're not alone in this,
(30:49):
this is hard whatever. And then it got to a
point where I don't know exactly when, but almost every
YouTube convention I would go to, there would be a
conversation just like a room full of YouTubers being like
what are we doing? Like you know, like that was
a pretty common conversation, or people would like talk about
feeling burnt out, or a lot of people would move
(31:11):
to other platforms because they felt better in certain ways.
And I remember when the goal for all of us
was like hitting a million subscribers, Like I remember, you
knew when another creator like hit a million subscribers, and
then you're counting down to when you hit a million subscribers.
That was like a big goal we all had, and
(31:31):
you know, like it's just so interesting to see now
there are people with like millions and millions of subscribers
it's almost like when everyone has it then. Anyway, I
think that there was like this excitement about it in
the beginning, this like thing we were all doing these
goals or whatever, and then it became like flooded with
so much more people. It started to become more mainstream,
It started to become more of like a career for people.
(31:52):
People were getting kind of launched into the mainstream space
and wondering if they should leave you tube, what are
we doing? It was always like what are you going
to do next? Do you do outside of this? Whereas
now like that is a conversation, but also a lot
of people are just doing YouTube and that's it and
that's great and like the end and like this is
and I don't feel like that was as much as
of the conversation ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
And while you're navigating all of this, you also make
the decision to go into therapy. What motivated you to
finally go for it, and then further down the line,
what motivated you to share sort of that journey with
your viewers.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
I think in twenty thirteen, I started to struggle with
my mental health, but I didn't really know that. I
think my manager at the time actually told me that
she felt like I should go to therapy, but I
said something like, I feel like you could hand me
everything I've ever wanted on a silver plata right now,
and I would be like, do I have to like
(32:49):
get up? I have to like like that was like
the feeling like I could have everything and almost felt
that way. I felt like it did kind of have
everything I wanted, or at least the opportunity to, and
I was like, I just like just so overwhelmed. And
then there's all this guilt that comes with that, right,
because then you're like living this life you really want
to live, but then you're like not happy. And then
(33:11):
several years later I moved. I moved to Arizona when
I was twenty six. Pretty soon after that, maybe a
year after moving, I remember like thinking I needed some
help maybe with my mental health. And then one moment
that really sticks out in my mind is my partner
at the time and I were like in an argument
something I was overreacting, which was a very like I
(33:33):
feel like there was a lot of that when my
mental health was that it's worse. It was a lot
of overreacting to a lot of things, like if I
didn't have a video that week. It would just be
like it would like kill me and I would just
like be like beating myself up over it. I couldn't
do anything else. And we were having a fight and
I was overreacting, not being great in that argument. And
(33:53):
then I went to the room to be alone. He
came in and he was like just very sweet and
kind and giving me a lot of grace. He was like,
do you think it's time for you to get some help?
And like, I think that moment it sticks out in
my mind, especially because I was just I don't know,
I was being so obnoxious and then for the reaction
to be like, hey, I like know you, and I
(34:14):
think maybe it's time. And I think I started reaching
out to therapists after that. Then I started therapy and
it was amazing, but I think I really needed to
go at a time where I came to terms without.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Myself what sort of led to the decision to take
a step back from YouTube.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
So when I moved from Texas to Arizona, I had
already I think the move was overwhelming, just you know,
my life changed quite a bit, not having my community there,
just a lot of it was like very overwhelming and
I took a step back from YouTube, and in my
head I was like, oh, I'm just going to take
like a week or two and get moved and whatever.
And then I just like didn't really go back or
(34:53):
like I made a video every now and then, but
it was in my head. I think I just thought
at first like I'm definitely going to go back, and
I wasn't going back. Then I was like, well, I
can't just leave without saying anything. For some reason, it
was like really important to me to make a video.
If I'm going to stop, I want to like say goodbye.
In therapy, I started talking about YouTube and like what
does that look like? From this point on? Do I
(35:15):
want to do anything outside of YouTube? And then like
very slowly I started to be like, well, do I
even want to go back at all? Do I quit?
If I quit? What does that look like? What does
it feel like? There was a lot of like homework
assignments for my therapist that was like right about how
it would feel to walk away from this, you know,
like what does it feel like? As soon as I
started entertaining the idea of like walking away from YouTube,
(35:37):
it was almost like, Oh, I can do this thing
that I like very clearly need to do. The last
video I made where I just like said goodbye to
YouTube was actually my therapist told me like to film
a goodbye video to kind of see how that felt,
and that is the video that I ended up posting.
And so I think with the film, it was like
as soon as I started, my body knew like, oh here,
(35:58):
this is it, Like we're quitting and right. So that's
kind of how it got to that point. From the
time I started thinking about quitting YouTube to the time
I made the video telling everyone I was quitting YouTube
was probably like a little over a year.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
So that's in twenty nineteen, and I know that the
community reaction was universally supportive. How do you return to
your life without this thing that's been a part of
it for like your whole adulthood up to this point.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, that was hard. I think I had to really
grieve a loss. Like I said, I hadn't really been
posting for a while, but I think something about just
like making it official and like making a goodbye and
stepping away was like really hard. Yeah, it truly felt
like I had to like grieve a loss almost like
a relationship, like I was like, Okay, this thing that
I just like know and it has become like my
identity almost to just like gone, which might be a
(36:50):
little dramatic because I know I still online, still doing things,
but I think the initial feeling felt very dramatic, felt
like I also was really focusing on my mental health
and my personal life and like relationships in my personal life.
To be totally honest, like I don't talk about my
personal life super publicly, but like a lot has changed
in the years since quitting. I think, like quitting and
(37:13):
then focusing on like my happiness and like, okay, what
so burnt out and struggling so much of this and
like now my energy is on like everything else, and
like what do I need to do for like myself
and my happiness? And it was difficult, it was hard,
but also there was just this freedom that came with it,
and like this weight off my shoulders and I had
(37:34):
the gift of time to just focus on myself and
that's what I did. By the time I quit, I
had already like not posted for a while very regularly.
It didn't feel like a crazy big switch in my life.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
And then I guess just to like bring us up
to the present and in the last five years now
that you're sort of talk into YouTube, what are things
that positive, negative, indifferent?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
There's a whole pandemic somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Somewhere in there. Yeah. Well, I mean I did have
this like very big, sort of life changing experience in
therapy where I really shifted my focus on myself and
like what do I want or need and my happiness,
which is just a thing I never did before, which
has changed my life in a lot of ways. And
now I'm in a place where I can look back
(38:19):
on this time, like the last like ten twelve years
and see it very differently and look at it through
a lens of just like like I don't know, I
think I was just so hard on myself for so long,
so much pressure for so long. I can look back
now and be like, of course you felt these things.
Like it's I feel like I'm in a place where
it's kind of like healing to look back and think
about more than like frustrating and like what was I
(38:41):
doing and why didn't I take these opportunities and having
all these regrets and whatever. Now it's just like, oh, yeah,
that makes sense. This was a crazy thing that I
went through. If that makes sense, Yeah, my life looks
pretty different. I don't know. I mean, I haven't talked
about this publicly. I did go through a breakup with
someone I was with for ten years, so a big shift,
and like just like learning life alone kind of getting
(39:05):
to know myself in a different way the last few years. Yeah,
it's hard because I feel like life feels so different,
but there's not a whole lot of like concrete things
I can point to, figuring out my mental health, my medication,
getting my mind right. I feel like I've grown up
a lot in the last five years, but also I
feel like that it flew by so quickly, and I'm like, oh,
nothing's happened. So I don't know. I somehow feel both
(39:28):
at the same time.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
I wouldn't want to be the person I was four
years ago, because then you know what was all the
pain and frustration of going through whatever you go through
it four years for it's a weird two hander.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I'm glad that you're coming back. It seems like on
your own terms and at your own pace.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
I would love to go back to YouTube. I'm very
cautious and want to do it in like a way
that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think we're
just kind of like I'm going to take it slowly
and see how it feels. But it certainly feels like
I'm approaching it from a very different place. And there
was a time when I felt like I really disappointed
that for a long time, just that man, I had
this like dream I really wanted like I had the
(40:06):
time to create the creative outlet an audience, and like,
it's it's too bad that I had to give that up.
It's too bad that just like didn't work. And then
for the first time recently, I've been thinking like, well,
like do I have to like maybe I go back now,
and maybe that just looks drastically different. So yeah, I
don't know what's going to happen, but I do feel
I have a little more control over it than I
(40:29):
felt like I had for a really long time. I
think that I think it's just like a crazy like
and I've been thinking about this when people ask me
about the Hawk Tour Girls specifically, I saw an interview
with her where she talked about like she was talking
about her experience since that video and like it was
a couple of days after and she's like, oh, I
didn't have management yet, said it so casually, like, of course,
(40:50):
that's what you do when you go viral. And I
feel like now it's a different experience. And honestly, I
think going viral in twenty twenty four is not something
I would be able to handle. It was hard enough
ten years ago, but now, I don't know, I feel
like it's so many more eyes, it's so many more
like expectations. But when she said that, I was just like, oh,
this is just a given, Like you go viral and
(41:11):
boom at your job, and like this is your life,
and like now you have management. It's just it's I mean,
I don't know. I think it's a lot to handle
at any time. But all that to say, I just
think it's a really different experience now versus then, And
it just seems like a lot now.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Alinda, thank you so much for joining us and being
so candid. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Of course, thank you, thank you so much. This is
a lot of fun. I enjoyed it a lot.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Thank you so much to Lena for her time and
her vulnerability. And you can follow her at the links
in the description. Whatever she decides to do. I so
admire that she's doing it on her own terms. I
did this interview about a month ago, and it really
has stuck with me and had me thinking again about
what pressure there is on creators, and that even when
(41:58):
one is really lucky to be in the position to
work on something that they care about and enjoy full time,
that the pressure to continue creating at an increasingly fast
rate is unrelenting and painful, no matter how much you
love what you do or appreciate the people that you
make it for. I've only talked to her this once,
(42:19):
but I'm genuinely proud of Lena for extracting herself from
that rat race when she realized how it was affecting
her health. I think creative burnout and how this kind
of pressure affects one's mental health should be discussed among
people across industries. And while it's a privilege to be
able to afford to step back, I think more people
(42:39):
should do it, take the time to work on themselves
and come back when they're ready. So I thank Lena
for imparting that lesson, and with that, Lena Morris, the
overly attached girlfriend, your sixteenth minute ends now, unless thank
(43:00):
you so much for everyone being here genuinely, it means
a lot to me. Please like, subscribe, leave a review
for the show. There's a Reddit board that I'm afraid
to check. I'm glad you're here. This is very much
a labor of love, and here's your moment of fun.
(43:24):
Sixteenth Minute is a production of fool Zone Media and
iHeart Labia. It is written, posted, and produced by me
Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert
Evans be Amazing. Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and
our editor. Our theme song is by Sad thirteen and Pet.
Shout outs to our dog producer Anderson, my cat's fleeing Casper,
(43:46):
and my pet rock Bird, who will outlive us all Bye.
Also Media.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Time. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where we talk
to the Internet's main characters and see how their moment
affects did them and what that says about us and
the Internet. My name is Jamie Loftus, and I genuinely,
deeply love movies that take place entirely on a computer screen.
I'm not interested in why you don't respect these films.
(01:15):
They're the best ones. And if you think I'm wrong,
maybe you haven't seen Unfriended. But I would like to
see a romcom in the computer movie genre. We got
to get away from the horror, we got to get
away from the thrillers. Everyone loves computer and today it's
part two of our look at the Overly Attached girlfriend
saga that started in twenty twelve and continues into today.
(01:36):
So if you haven't listened to the first part of
this series, kindly do that now. I'm serious, Go listen
to it. Okay, I think they're gone. To those who
have listened to part one, here's a quick refresher from
last week, because I know that two news cycles happen
a day now and you might need it. Lena Morris
(01:56):
was just a college student when The overly Attached girlfriend
memes first came to prominence during the summer of twenty twelve,
an Internet era where being a full time YouTuber was
just starting to look possible, but was still kind of
nebulous in what that would actually look like. Around the
time Lena left school to pursue YouTube full time from
her home base in Texas, she wasn't a part of
(02:19):
that generation of YouTubers that flocked to LA. The platform
itself was putting extreme emphasis on watch time, or how
much time a user spent on YouTube, and tweaked its
recommendation algorithm to keep people watching for as long as possible,
and if you know anything about YouTube, you know that
(02:39):
this super worked. But for Lena and creators on the
platform then and now, that meant they were encouraged to
produce a lot of content because the algorithm of this
time would boost users who posted often, which inadvertently rewarded
overwork and sometimes underthinking. Lena worked as a successful YouTuber
(03:02):
for over half a decade, at first just as the
overly attached girlfriend character, but later she wrote and performed
sketches as herself. She did reaction videos, she did get
to Know Me videos, and She became a familiar and
popular presence on the platform for years, while never getting
caught up in some of those influencer shit shows you
might associate with this era of YouTube, and from the outside,
(03:25):
she seemed pretty fulfilled doing it. But in twenty nineteen,
Lena publicly admitted that this wasn't necessarily true. She had
been struggling with depression for some time and found that
the grind and self inflicted pressure of a YouTube career
had exacerbated that depression further, and so she said at
the time she was going to take a step back
(03:47):
from YouTube to take care of herself and wasn't sure
when she would be back. But just this past summer,
five years after first leaving YouTube, Lena posted again, reflecting
on the time away and wondering if, now that she'd
had the time to work on herself, if it wasn't
time to give YouTube another shot. I was lucky enough
(04:08):
to talk with Lena shortly after this video was released,
and she is, as you're about to hear, the coolest,
most humble, kind person. We talk about that first viral
moment back in twenty twelve, that era of the Internet
and the concept of burnout, especially during a time where
it wasn't a common talking point among creatives. So, without
(04:30):
further ado, widen your eyes and throw on a high
contrast T shirt because this is my interview with the
Overly Attached Girlfriend Lena Morris, and we talked for some time,
so this interview has been edited for time and clarity. Enjoy.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
My name is Lena. I kind of got my start
on the internet about twelve years ago. I posted a
video that became a meme called the Overly Attached Girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You are like an internet legend. I feel.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I want to talk about, of course, like the moment
where everything first happened, but like you built such a
unique career. But first I wanted to talk about the
fact that you posted a video for the first time
in forever a couple of.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Weeks ago on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Tell me about this, the decision to come back to
YouTube after five years, right.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Yes, five years. I wanted to post a video just
like a five years later update type of video, which
what I ended up posting wasn't even there. Weren't really
even updates in that video, but I was thinking about
it when I posted. I posted a video five years ago,
kind of like quitting YouTube and talking about my mental
(05:40):
health and why I needed to quit and all of
those things, and the reaction to that was so like
overwhelmingly positive in a way I didn't expect. And I
got a lot of like comments and messages from people
that I think I mentioned in my recent video like
I saved them and I still read them now. They
it's just like a very over wilmingly great reaction that
(06:01):
I wanted to come back and sort of acknowledge that
and talk about it a little bit. And when I
started thinking about that and brainstorming like ideas for a
video or like do I even want to post one?
Do I not? Whatever, I just started getting this feeling
of like, you know, like maybe I actually want to
post multiple videos, or maybe I want to try and
like go back, which is not a thing I ever
(06:22):
thought it would happen. It wasn't in my head at all.
I think if it was, I probably couldn't come back.
So I decided to just like post a video five
years later and see how that felt and then sort
of take next steps based on how that felt. And
it felt pretty good. I haven't posted a video since then.
I wanted to after, to be honest, right after I
(06:44):
posted it, things in my personal life got a little crazy,
and I just like haven't gotten back to it, and
I wish I did. I think I still will. I
don't know, but I think that also seeing the reaction
to that video as well, like and that feeling good
sort of maybe having a grasp on my mental health
and stuff like. I don't know. I think there's a
lot of things that make it make sense to me
(07:06):
five years later. Yeah, a little like unexpected for me too.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, welcome back, maybe.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
So I guess I want to go back back because
I feel like most of the interviews that I've found
that you've done over the years, I am curious just
a little bit about how you grew up.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Where did you grow up, What was life like?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Ooh fun? Okay, So I was born and raised in Texas,
North Texas, like that was Fort Worth area because I
lived there until I was like twenty six. I'm the
youngest of four kids. I went to college in Texas.
I had been going to college for like a couple
of years when the overly touch girlfriend stuff started and
(07:52):
I decided to like take a break, and I haven't
gone back to sort of pursue that but life right
before the meme was ver very much just like, yeah,
going to school, working part time, just kind of like
a very normal I was going to school to be
a teacher. I knew that, Like I didn't really want
to do that. I was just sort of in this
like what am I going to do? Stage when everything
(08:13):
took off.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
So did you grow up performing? Were you interested in performing?
Speaker 4 (08:19):
No? I mean I was the youngest of four kids,
so in a way, it's.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Like jockey for attention.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, Like in that way, I performed every day of
my life. Yeah, I was certainly interested in it. I
think if I maybe had. I think if I had,
maybe I would have been a kid that would have
enjoyed probably like theater or something like that. I just like, never,
it's never a thing that I did. I always really
liked comedy. I do think that, like this is so
(08:45):
embarrassing and obnoxious, But there was something about the attention
of like being the class clown or like something in
my face, Like there was something there that was like
I want, I like the feeling of like making people laugh,
getting that reaction. That was certainly there. But there was
no performing in any way, And.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
That makes like your trajectory all the more interesting where
it's like it truly is like an overnet.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The video, the original video. I went back and watch it.
It's still very funny.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It still hits thank you and thanks and overnight that
changes your life in this huge way. So I guess
before we get to that, at the point that you
made the original video, what was your relationship with the
internet like around that time in college?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Wow, I don't know. Let me think for us, Agad.
I'm trying to think of, like what I guess I
had a Facebook. I'm trying to think of what social
media looked like back then. I feel like back then too,
it was always like there was like one social media
at a time, Like when I was younger, I had
like a zanga than a mice face, then a Facebook,
Like it was all just like one. It wasn't this
like explosion of all of the you know, Instagram, Twitter,
(09:51):
TikTok whatever it is now. Yeah, I mean I had
a Facebook. There was no I didn't have like any
public social media. Maybe I had a Twitter. Instagram wasn't
a thing yet. I didn't even know what right it
was until I posted the video. So honestly, remember I'm like,
where did I get my news and information? I don't know.
I guess, yeah, I guess it was just mostly like Facebook.
(10:13):
And I mean I watched a decent amount of YouTube.
I knew that, like some people were doing it as
a job. I knew that was like kind of a thing.
I watched Jenna Marbles, I really liked Bo Burnham. I
watched I think a little bit of like Jimmy Titrow
stuff like that. But I all, my mind is going
to his.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Facebook as forever ago as the Internet in twenty twelve
feels it's that you could still set your relationship status
to It's complicated.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It just like walk me.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Through the moment you hear of this Justin Bieber contest.
What are the parameters of the contest?
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yeah, so I heard about this contest. So maybe that's
the thing I was doing on the internet because I
found that somehow, I.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Was like, I wonder where that even.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Yeah, I don't know, I somehow came across this contest.
Justin Bieber was having so he had this new fragrance
coming out called Girlfriend, and he had this song that
had just been released called Boyfriend, and he asked his
fans to write a parody of the song from a
girlfriend's perspective and upload it to YouTube. Well, I remember
(11:22):
immediately thinking like, I want to make this funny. How
can I make it funny? I'll make it just like
kind of creepy stocker girlfriend whatever. I remember just like
being really excited to write this song. I had this
piece of paper that I took I think I took
it to work with me that day and I was
like in between like working and I was like writing these.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Lyrics and where were you waiting?
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I was working at a place called pack and Mail
in Denton, Texas. It was just exactly what it sounds like.
I was in a rush to film the video because
I thought it had to be submitted by a certain time.
I changed out of my work shirt really quickly after
work one day to record it. I just grabbed like
this T shirt that was on the floor of my bedroom,
recorded it on my webcam. I had done like a
(12:03):
couple takes. Maybe I feel like, also, I'm so at
this point in my life, I'm like, what am I remembering?
And what have I said so many times that I
just believe it's true? Yeah, But I do have a
very clear memory who knows where it came from, having
this period of time of this just like instrumental at
the beginning where I didn't know what to do. So
(12:24):
I think on like the last take, I was like,
I'm going to make this like creepy face and just
stare right into the camera. So that's what I did.
I uploaded the video. I posted it to my Facebook
just for like my friends and family to see, and
then someone on my Facebook or something posted it to Reddit.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Was it just a screencap or like the whole video?
Speaker 4 (12:45):
I think posted the whole video, just like a link
to the YouTube video. Then someone on Reddit took a
screenshot from the beginning where I made that face looked
into the camera, and then that became the meme. But
before I went to bed that night, I knew like
the video had taken off a little bit. When I
woke up the next morning, that's when the meme was everywhere.
(13:05):
That's when like the overly attached girlfriend was a thing,
after someone had taken that screenshot and it blew up.
That blew up like separately on Reddit. I guess someone
I think commented on the video and said that they
came from Reddit or something about the front page of
Reddit something like that, and I looked it up because
I was like one to Reddit. Then I started like
reading comments on Reddit and sort of like seeped into
(13:27):
other parts of the Internet. But yeah, I read it
is where it first took off.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And when we come back more with Lena Morris, Welcome
back to sixteenth minute and let's jump right back into
my interview with the overly Attached girlfriend Lena Morris. Take
(13:54):
me through the day that you're realizing that this is
a thing. Do you feel like the meme format like
captured what you were going for originally?
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Oh? Yeah, I think so. I think I'm also like,
I feel very lucky that I'm like in on the
joke of it too. I think amodi memes like don't
have that, which I feel like it became this big
joke online. I just feel like lucky that I'm in
on that joke and it wasn't just like a regular
picture of me smiling and everyone was like, oh look,
this creepy.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Girl having all the internet brain rat knowledge that I have,
knowing like, oh, well, this person was in on the
reason they became famous.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
This person had to meet the moment.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
And decide how do I want to cope with it,
so I think, yeah, that's that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So was it ever uncomfortable in those early days to
like see your image everywhere?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Did it feel like you'd like lost any sort of
like agency over your own image?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Was it exciting?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yeah? It was. I think my memories of that time
are mostly like it was just like really exciting. I
think the Internet certainly took it and ran like I
you know, I didn't call I didn't come up with
overly attached girlfriend like a name for the meme. I
didn't make it a meme. And so I feel like
the Internet very much took this thing and like made
it their own, and it sort of like fell out
(15:09):
of my hands pretty quickly in a lot of ways.
But I remember it just feeling like really cool. I
can't believe this is happening, like it's supposed to here
and now it's supposed to hear. I can't believe like
this person has seen my face. There did come a
point where I felt really disconnected from the meme, and
I will, like even now sometimes obviously it doesn't happen
as often, but I'll just like randomly stumble upon it
(15:31):
every now and then and it feels much more like, oh,
there's my meme rather than like there's me or like
my face or I don't know, there's like some disconnect
that happened at some point. Yeah, I think my overall,
my memory of it is like very positive and like overwhelming,
but in like a very fun, exciting way. I do
think it was out of my hands a bit pretty quickly,
(15:51):
but not in a way it felt negative. Back then,
you could send people messages on YouTube direct messages, and
so my inbox was a little flooded, but mostly with
just like random people. There was like no other way
to contact me at first. Also accept that then when
(16:12):
I posted the second video and that kind of blew
up a little bit as well. That's when I think
I started getting a lot more like people reached. I
had like some management reach out at that time, like
wanting to work together and things like that, but I
think that that was after I sort of kept it
going with that second video.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So there is like sort of this moment where you
post the first video as a joke, you're basically assigned
a character kind of you've written it yourself, but it's
also sort of being co created by people making the meme.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
All right, cool, let's make another one.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
How do you go through this period of deciding, you
know what, I want to keep this going and then
what do I want this to look like?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Well, before any of this happened, I really wanted to
be in entertainment in some capacity and I just never
pursued it because it felt like an impossible thing. I
didn't know what to do. Like I remember talking to
my dad once about like what if I just moved
to LA And then I'm like, but what do I
do when I get there? Or like I don't have money,
Like I don't know. I just remember being like I
want to be in this world, but I don't have
So that was in me a little bit. And I
(17:11):
had made videos with friends like in college and stuff,
just like silly goofy videos that I think were posted
and taken down at some point, and so like it
was in me a little bit, like I remember posting
silly videos with my friends and maybe it was like
on their channel or something and like watching and seeing
like oh I wonder if anyone else will see this whatever?
And that way I was there. So when that took off,
(17:31):
it was like really exciting and I knew some people
were like doing it full time. I started getting like followers.
I made a Twitter, people started following me on Twitter.
I decided to post that second video, and then I
think after the second video, I was like, Okay, I
think this could actually be like a job or like
a thing I could really pursue. And I remember talking
to my parents about it then. And then that's also
(17:53):
when like management reached out. That's when I started thinking like, oh,
this could be a thing I could really pursue and
could be really good. I just thought at that time,
like I'll just go with it for as long as
it works and see what happens. I'm so glad you
mentioned the thing about like my brain not being fully developed,
because I feel like at the time, like being twenty
twenty one, I felt so old. I felt like such
(18:13):
an adult. And then now at thirty three, I can
like look back and I have like you did not
know what was happening to you and your world got
so crazy so quickly. But there was so much of
me at the time, in like my early twenties that
when things got like challenging and there was a lot
of like why can't I figure out how to do this,
how to maintain this whatever I'll have to say. It's
just like validating to hear you say that, because it's
(18:33):
so different, like looking back at that time now versus
being in the thick of it in the moment, and.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
That not only are you young and having to sort
of make these decisions because of the nature of the Internet,
I imagine you had to make them pretty quickly. I mean,
I know that there were This was like the early
days of YouTubers and internet personalities making a full time
living work. So in twenty twelve, like, what was the
kind of.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Advice you were getting? Like, what was the past that.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Was sort of laid before you at this time. I imagine
it's changed a lot over the years, but maybe not.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Oh, it's definitely changed. In fact, when I was thinking
about making a second YouTube video recently, there was a
part of me that's like, I really need to make
something about like becoming a meme in twenty twelve versus
like twenty twenty four. And for some reason, I'd been
getting a lot of people asking me about the Hawktua girl,
And like, I don't know why, because it's such a
vastly different time. What advice would you give her. What
(19:26):
did you ask me the advice I was getting at
the time, So I remember, like I did the thing
that immediately popped into my brain when you asked me
that was I did this interview for a radio station,
like pretty early on. It was one of my very
first interviews I ever heard, and I remember the host
of this radio show trying to like, I don't know,
just like kind of like tell me what I should do,
(19:47):
how I should handle it. And I remember him telling me,
you need to make a Facebook, like a public Facebook.
You need to upload photos of yourself that aren't in character,
like you need to post as Lena. I remember I
came up with a fake last name for that interview
because he was like, you know, you might not want
your last name out there, which I think that's a
huge difference twenty twelve versus now. Everyone's like, oh, don't
(20:09):
give your name out like, which is honestly like kind
of stuck with me. I still don't have my last
name on my socials. That fake last name I gave
back then is still pops up as like people thinking
it's my last name. So like funny advice like that,
but I think would never be given now. Yeah. I
think when I signed with like management, that was like
all new and I was just like, yeah, tell me
what to do.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I don't know, I understand why people are asking you
about how to a girl. There are enough similarities between
the trajectories that I understand why people are asking where
it's like a similar age.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Someone who is in on the joke, and all of
a sudden there's management involved, and it seems like the
question is like okay, what now, Like what do we do?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I went back and sort of went through in like
that first year a lot of mainstream appearances and like
crossing over into mainstream media. But what was that period, Like,
are there any appearances or things that stand out to you?
Speaker 4 (20:58):
I think the craziest you one that hands out to
me and that was like the most fun was I
got to be on Jimmy Fallon. That was so cool.
I just I was that whole experience was awesome. My
manager called me and said, there was like this writer
at Fallon. They were wondering if I would happen to
be in New York at this period time. If so,
like they would want me to do this thing on
the show. And I was like, I will happen to
(21:19):
be in New York at whatever time, Like, yeah, so
I got my own ticket, flew there with my I
took like my best friend with me. It was just
like a magical experience. We got this hotel, you got
like the driver picked us up to take us to
the studio. It was so much fun. That is like
the memory that stands out to me the most.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Once you're on YouTube full time and like adjusting to
that grind, were you balancing it with auditioning for other
stuff and like where where did you want things to
head at that time or were you being pressured in
any particular direction.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
I started posting regularly after that second one. It became
my job pretty quickly, or it just I mean it
became I started making money from it pretty quickly, even
just from like the first video. So I stuck with
YouTube mostly just doing YouTube, and then very quickly I
think the conversation came up just with like friends that
were also doing YouTube and like management and stuff of
like what where do we want this to go? Do
(22:11):
you want to act? Do you want to do a
stand up? Do you want to write? Whatever? I felt
really overwhelmed with like not knowing what to do or
how to do it. I also at the time, I
had a really really difficult time with feeling like I
have to move to LA, like I just have to.
I felt a lot of pressure to do that. I
felt like if I pursue anything in this world, in
(22:31):
this industry, I just have to be there. And I
felt really conflicted with my life in Texas versus like
do I go to LA. It's so like I can't
have I like shouldn't have regrets. But when I look
back and I'm like, I was like, oh, I don't
I hope if I moved to LA, I might break
up with my boyfriends, so I shouldn't do that, And
like I just like little like twenty twenty one year
(22:52):
old thoughts where I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Just totally like yeah, don La.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah. I feel like very quickly I got really stuck
not knowing what to do. I felt a lot of
pressure to figure out what to do. I would start
to think like, Okay, maybe I want to act, and
then I would go back on that and be like
I don't know, Like who am I to like decidle
of a sudden, I'm an actor just because I posted
this like YouTube video. I want to write but I
don't know how to pursue that I wasn't doing like
(23:16):
auditions or anything. But there are things I look back
on now, like there was certainly opportunities that I had
been that I don't have now that I didn't take
because I was just like so afraid or unsure of
what to do. Yeah, and like, I can't really regret
it because I look back at that version of me
(23:37):
and I'm like, of course, like, of course you were overwhelmed.
You had no idea what to do. But at the
same time, it's like, oh my gosh, like the things
I could have done had I just not been afraid
to do them, But yeah, there was no There was
certainly pressure to like do something outside of YouTube, but
there was no I felt very frozen and stuck and
not knowing what direction to go, and I just kind
of didn't and stuck with YouTube.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
When we come back more with the overly Attached Girlfriend
Lena Morris, Welcome back to sixteenth Minute. It's the most
wonderful time of the year. And by that I mean
(24:22):
that for some reason, Pee Wee's Big Adventures back in
theaters and I just got tickets to a haunted hay
Ride and here is the rest of my talk with
Lena Morris. So, when you were making those early videos, yeah,
I mean were you making them completely alone? Like, how
were those early videos coming together once it became your job.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
I was making them alone. I think that's pretty obvious.
If you go back alone, there's no like there's so
many people that I feel like, say, and this is true.
This is true for a lot of people. They'll be like, well,
like doing YouTube, you're like the writer and the director
and you're the actor and you're the editor, and like
anytime I see that, I'm like yeah. But like I
felt like for a very long time like this when
(25:02):
I'm hesitating because I don't want to, I think just
me personally, not anyone else's experience. Like I think I
wasn't putting as much work into it as like for
a long time, I was like getting out of it,
if that makes sense. Like I just felt like this
isn't like that hard. But also I'm not really like
doing anything big. There was no big like production in
my videos. There were a lot of people that were
(25:24):
doing that. I think one thing that I realized recently,
especially with like thinking about coming back to YouTube, I
immediately was sucked into this thing and then felt pressure
to post every week, but with no plan and like
no experience doing it. I was like learning how along
the way, I was learning how to edit as I
was going and thinking about it now, it's like, but
(25:45):
I could be more in that mindset looking at it
as a job in a different way than I think
I did back then. Back then it was so like
I just felt all the time like I don't know
what I'm doing. I have no idea what I'm doing,
and I guess I'll post like this. I look back
at some videos and a lot of them are private
and now for that reason. But I'll look back at
a video, watch it, watch this version of me that
(26:06):
talks for like two minutes, and it's like, Okay, well
see you next week, and I'm like what if I
what did I spend that whole week doing? That's like
that's it. But I think I just like never had
a chance to just like step back and think, like
what do I want this to be? I was just
in it and like I don't know. Very often this
overwhelming feeling of like what am I doing? Like once
or twice a year, I would get together with these
(26:27):
friends at these YouTube conventions. It was the first time,
the only time in the year that I got to
be around people that did what I did and talk
about it and like how are.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You doing this?
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And what do you do for whatever? Like that's just
it was a very like lonely thing that I didn't
have a lot of yeah, like direction except for just
looking at what are other people doing? There was a
whole lot of direction from the outside.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I don't think in the years you were doing YouTube
consistently navigating parasocial relationships, navigating audience expectations, or even perceived
audience expectations.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I'm curious of how you use dealt with the relationship
with your audience.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
That was hard because it was just like a lot
of people all at once, all wanting to see different things,
me not knowing where to take it, what to do.
To be honest, it was like a decent amount of
men on the internet, and that was like really hard
to handle, like navigate how do I handle like these
situations that would come up that sometimes would put me
in a position to feel a little like uncomfortable or
(27:27):
even at certain points like unsafe. It's not a normal
experience for people to like have all these people that
you don't know just like know you and want to
like talk to you and want different things. And that
being said, it's also like really cool. I had a
lot of really good experiences. I think it just took
some time to get used to. It took some time
to figure out how to kind of like disconnect from
(27:49):
this version of me that's online versus my personal life.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And so, at what point in making the regular YouTube
content did you start to struggle with mental health? And
it also seems like some burnout and pressure and yeah,
when did that start?
Speaker 4 (28:05):
It started a year and a half in or so,
or maybe a little sooner than that. I made a
video and I can't actually remember when. This was the
first time I cried on the internet talking about how
like I didn't know what I was doing and I
was unsure. But it was around that time when I
started to just feel like like I didn't have any
direction and I didn't know where to go from there.
(28:27):
There was also like there is something about when you
start way up at the top, which is a very
lucky thing I got to experience having like my first
video go viral, but also there's really like nowhere to
go but down. After that, and so like for a
long time, everything I posted, I'm like, if it doesn't
go viral, I'm failing ridiculous, because especially back then, it's
(28:48):
like you don't get viral videos very often, if at all. Yeah,
I just started to feel like I don't know, I
don't really know what I'm doing. I don't know what
direction to go with this. It's also like I was
at a point in my life where all my friends
are graduating college, starting their careers, and I am like, here,
I am alone in my apartment, film me a silly video.
And there's also something to be said for like working
(29:11):
from home, spending all of your time alone. I think
when I look back now, I'm like a year and
a half or so in that makes sense to me
because that's kind of when the energy and craziness of
like the viral moment sort of started to wear down.
And now it's just like I'm stuck with Okay, now
now what kind of feeling? And I did. I did
drive out of school to pursue that, and that was
(29:32):
some pressure. Like I also just like I struggled with
my mental health for a lot of reasons. I think
that just never having a moment to figure it out
or take a break, or it just sort of spiraled
from there.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I guess how long were you in that holding pattern?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
A long time? When you are like I have to
keep going or I lose this, then you're also creating
content you're not happy with. Or that's my experience. I
honestly think that there was a part of me not
that was like doing it on purpose, but I certainly
wasn't putting my own all into what I was creating,
And I think that that was there was a part
of me that was using it as like kind of
a way to protect myself. Like if I'm not super
(30:08):
happy with what I'm making, then the numbers being bad
or the reaction being bad doesn't hurt as much because
I'm like, oh, yeah, I know, like I didn't try
super hard on that, and that's easier than like putting
my all into this and then failing. I feel like
when you're when you're working your job and you're like
not doing a great job at it, like it's not
normal for like everyone in your life to be able
(30:29):
to go look and see that that's happening. That was
hard because I feel like it's so obvious there's like
numbers right there in front of you that people are seeing. Yeah,
I think I was burnt out without knowing what burnout
was at that time, and feeling like I don't know
what I'm doing, I feel pressure whatever. I remember other
YouTubers reaching out to me after that and being like
I feel that too, and like You're not alone in this,
(30:49):
this is hard whatever. And then it got to a
point where I don't know exactly when, but almost every
YouTube convention I would go to, there would be a
conversation just like a room full of YouTubers being like
what are we doing? Like you know, like that was
a pretty common conversation, or people would like talk about
feeling burnt out, or a lot of people would move
(31:11):
to other platforms because they felt better in certain ways.
And I remember when the goal for all of us
was like hitting a million subscribers, Like I remember, you
knew when another creator like hit a million subscribers, and
then you're counting down to when you hit a million subscribers.
That was like a big goal we all had, and
(31:31):
you know, like it's just so interesting to see now
there are people with like millions and millions of subscribers
it's almost like when everyone has it then. Anyway, I
think that there was like this excitement about it in
the beginning, this like thing we were all doing these
goals or whatever, and then it became like flooded with
so much more people. It started to become more mainstream,
It started to become more of like a career for people.
(31:52):
People were getting kind of launched into the mainstream space
and wondering if they should leave you tube, what are
we doing? It was always like what are you going
to do next? Do you do outside of this? Whereas
now like that is a conversation, but also a lot
of people are just doing YouTube and that's it and
that's great and like the end and like this is
and I don't feel like that was as much as
of the conversation ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
And while you're navigating all of this, you also make
the decision to go into therapy. What motivated you to
finally go for it, and then further down the line,
what motivated you to share sort of that journey with
your viewers.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
I think in twenty thirteen, I started to struggle with
my mental health, but I didn't really know that. I
think my manager at the time actually told me that
she felt like I should go to therapy, but I
said something like, I feel like you could hand me
everything I've ever wanted on a silver plata right now,
and I would be like, do I have to like
(32:49):
get up? I have to like like that was like
the feeling like I could have everything and almost felt
that way. I felt like it did kind of have
everything I wanted, or at least the opportunity to, and
I was like, I just like just so overwhelmed. And
then there's all this guilt that comes with that, right,
because then you're like living this life you really want
to live, but then you're like not happy. And then
(33:11):
several years later I moved. I moved to Arizona when
I was twenty six. Pretty soon after that, maybe a
year after moving, I remember like thinking I needed some
help maybe with my mental health. And then one moment
that really sticks out in my mind is my partner
at the time and I were like in an argument
something I was overreacting, which was a very like I
(33:33):
feel like there was a lot of that when my
mental health was that it's worse. It was a lot
of overreacting to a lot of things, like if I
didn't have a video that week. It would just be
like it would like kill me and I would just
like be like beating myself up over it. I couldn't
do anything else. And we were having a fight and
I was overreacting, not being great in that argument. And
(33:53):
then I went to the room to be alone. He
came in and he was like just very sweet and
kind and giving me a lot of grace. He was like,
do you think it's time for you to get some help?
And like, I think that moment it sticks out in
my mind, especially because I was just I don't know,
I was being so obnoxious and then for the reaction
to be like, hey, I like know you, and I
(34:14):
think maybe it's time. And I think I started reaching
out to therapists after that. Then I started therapy and
it was amazing, but I think I really needed to
go at a time where I came to terms without.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Myself what sort of led to the decision to take
a step back from YouTube.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
So when I moved from Texas to Arizona, I had
already I think the move was overwhelming, just you know,
my life changed quite a bit, not having my community there,
just a lot of it was like very overwhelming and
I took a step back from YouTube, and in my
head I was like, oh, I'm just going to take
like a week or two and get moved and whatever.
And then I just like didn't really go back or
(34:53):
like I made a video every now and then, but
it was in my head. I think I just thought
at first like I'm definitely going to go back, and
I wasn't going back. Then I was like, well, I
can't just leave without saying anything. For some reason, it
was like really important to me to make a video.
If I'm going to stop, I want to like say goodbye.
In therapy, I started talking about YouTube and like what
does that look like? From this point on? Do I
(35:15):
want to do anything outside of YouTube? And then like
very slowly I started to be like, well, do I
even want to go back at all? Do I quit?
If I quit? What does that look like? What does
it feel like? There was a lot of like homework
assignments for my therapist that was like right about how
it would feel to walk away from this, you know,
like what does it feel like? As soon as I
started entertaining the idea of like walking away from YouTube,
(35:37):
it was almost like, Oh, I can do this thing
that I like very clearly need to do. The last
video I made where I just like said goodbye to
YouTube was actually my therapist told me like to film
a goodbye video to kind of see how that felt,
and that is the video that I ended up posting.
And so I think with the film, it was like
as soon as I started, my body knew like, oh here,
(35:58):
this is it, Like we're quitting and right. So that's
kind of how it got to that point. From the
time I started thinking about quitting YouTube to the time
I made the video telling everyone I was quitting YouTube
was probably like a little over a year.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
So that's in twenty nineteen, and I know that the
community reaction was universally supportive. How do you return to
your life without this thing that's been a part of
it for like your whole adulthood up to this point.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, that was hard. I think I had to really
grieve a loss. Like I said, I hadn't really been
posting for a while, but I think something about just
like making it official and like making a goodbye and
stepping away was like really hard. Yeah, it truly felt
like I had to like grieve a loss almost like
a relationship, like I was like, Okay, this thing that
I just like know and it has become like my
identity almost to just like gone, which might be a
(36:50):
little dramatic because I know I still online, still doing things,
but I think the initial feeling felt very dramatic, felt
like I also was really focusing on my mental health
and my personal life and like relationships in my personal life.
To be totally honest, like I don't talk about my
personal life super publicly, but like a lot has changed
in the years since quitting. I think, like quitting and
(37:13):
then focusing on like my happiness and like, okay, what
so burnt out and struggling so much of this and
like now my energy is on like everything else, and
like what do I need to do for like myself
and my happiness? And it was difficult, it was hard,
but also there was just this freedom that came with it,
and like this weight off my shoulders and I had
(37:34):
the gift of time to just focus on myself and
that's what I did. By the time I quit, I
had already like not posted for a while very regularly.
It didn't feel like a crazy big switch in my life.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
And then I guess just to like bring us up
to the present and in the last five years now
that you're sort of talk into YouTube, what are things
that positive, negative, indifferent?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
There's a whole pandemic somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Somewhere in there. Yeah. Well, I mean I did have
this like very big, sort of life changing experience in
therapy where I really shifted my focus on myself and
like what do I want or need and my happiness,
which is just a thing I never did before, which
has changed my life in a lot of ways. And
now I'm in a place where I can look back
(38:19):
on this time, like the last like ten twelve years
and see it very differently and look at it through
a lens of just like like I don't know, I
think I was just so hard on myself for so long,
so much pressure for so long. I can look back
now and be like, of course you felt these things.
Like it's I feel like I'm in a place where
it's kind of like healing to look back and think
about more than like frustrating and like what was I
(38:41):
doing and why didn't I take these opportunities and having
all these regrets and whatever. Now it's just like, oh, yeah,
that makes sense. This was a crazy thing that I
went through. If that makes sense, Yeah, my life looks
pretty different. I don't know. I mean, I haven't talked
about this publicly. I did go through a breakup with
someone I was with for ten years, so a big shift,
and like just like learning life alone kind of getting
(39:05):
to know myself in a different way the last few years. Yeah,
it's hard because I feel like life feels so different,
but there's not a whole lot of like concrete things
I can point to, figuring out my mental health, my medication,
getting my mind right. I feel like I've grown up
a lot in the last five years, but also I
feel like that it flew by so quickly, and I'm like, oh,
nothing's happened. So I don't know. I somehow feel both
(39:28):
at the same time.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
I wouldn't want to be the person I was four
years ago, because then you know what was all the
pain and frustration of going through whatever you go through
it four years for it's a weird two hander.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I'm glad that you're coming back. It seems like on
your own terms and at your own pace.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
I would love to go back to YouTube. I'm very
cautious and want to do it in like a way
that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think we're
just kind of like I'm going to take it slowly
and see how it feels. But it certainly feels like
I'm approaching it from a very different place. And there
was a time when I felt like I really disappointed
that for a long time, just that man, I had
this like dream I really wanted like I had the
(40:06):
time to create the creative outlet an audience, and like,
it's it's too bad that I had to give that up.
It's too bad that just like didn't work. And then
for the first time recently, I've been thinking like, well,
like do I have to like maybe I go back now,
and maybe that just looks drastically different. So yeah, I
don't know what's going to happen, but I do feel
I have a little more control over it than I
(40:29):
felt like I had for a really long time. I
think that I think it's just like a crazy like
and I've been thinking about this when people ask me
about the Hawk Tour Girls specifically, I saw an interview
with her where she talked about like she was talking
about her experience since that video and like it was
a couple of days after and she's like, oh, I
didn't have management yet, said it so casually, like, of course,
(40:50):
that's what you do when you go viral. And I
feel like now it's a different experience. And honestly, I
think going viral in twenty twenty four is not something
I would be able to handle. It was hard enough
ten years ago, but now, I don't know, I feel
like it's so many more eyes, it's so many more
like expectations. But when she said that, I was just like, oh,
this is just a given, Like you go viral and
(41:11):
boom at your job, and like this is your life,
and like now you have management. It's just it's I mean,
I don't know. I think it's a lot to handle
at any time. But all that to say, I just
think it's a really different experience now versus then, And
it just seems like a lot now.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Alinda, thank you so much for joining us and being
so candid. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Of course, thank you, thank you so much. This is
a lot of fun. I enjoyed it a lot.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Thank you so much to Lena for her time and
her vulnerability. And you can follow her at the links
in the description. Whatever she decides to do. I so
admire that she's doing it on her own terms. I
did this interview about a month ago, and it really
has stuck with me and had me thinking again about
what pressure there is on creators, and that even when
(41:58):
one is really lucky to be in the position to
work on something that they care about and enjoy full time,
that the pressure to continue creating at an increasingly fast
rate is unrelenting and painful, no matter how much you
love what you do or appreciate the people that you
make it for. I've only talked to her this once,
(42:19):
but I'm genuinely proud of Lena for extracting herself from
that rat race when she realized how it was affecting
her health. I think creative burnout and how this kind
of pressure affects one's mental health should be discussed among
people across industries. And while it's a privilege to be
able to afford to step back, I think more people
(42:39):
should do it, take the time to work on themselves
and come back when they're ready. So I thank Lena
for imparting that lesson, and with that, Lena Morris, the
overly attached girlfriend, your sixteenth minute ends now, unless thank
(43:00):
you so much for everyone being here genuinely, it means
a lot to me. Please like, subscribe, leave a review
for the show. There's a Reddit board that I'm afraid
to check. I'm glad you're here. This is very much
a labor of love, and here's your moment of fun.
(43:24):
Sixteenth Minute is a production of fool Zone Media and
iHeart Labia. It is written, posted, and produced by me
Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert
Evans be Amazing. Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and
our editor. Our theme song is by Sad thirteen and Pet.
Shout outs to our dog producer Anderson, my cat's fleeing Casper,
(43:46):
and my pet rock Bird, who will outlive us all Bye.
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