10. Ashlee Mathis was a member of the infamous Taco Tuesday clan that partied together with the group of neighbors at Camden Martinique Apartments including: Dan Wozniak, Rachel Buffett and victims Sam Herr and Julie Kibuishi. Ashlee adored Sam and Julie but never really hit it off with Rachel or Dan. What she shares with SLEUTH is one of the most disturbing stories we have heard regarding Rachel Buffett and her role in the murders. In fact, Wozniak Defense Counsel, Scott Sanders has told SLEUTH he sees Ashlee Mathis tale as the most telling information that points to Rachel Buffett's guilt. And that's not all she has to say. Ashlee has another story that helps put Tim Wozniak, Daniel Wozniak's older brother, square at the crime scene on the day of Julie Kibuishi's murder.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language.
If she's trying to look into his apartment from your
balcony and he's already arrested, Knowing what so many people
have told me about Rachel, it seems like she was
checking out whether or not you could see if she
was there at the apartment that night, I don't doubt
(00:24):
it at all. Welcome to Sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. This
week on Sleuth, we decided to do something very different
with our podcast. We have three separate interviews over the
(00:47):
next three nights, one with Ashley Mathis, another with Kristen
Burgo Moscow who is now Kristen Crane, and the last
being Daniel hulk Yard. These individuals I felt very strongly
could have been witnesses in either Dan Wazniak's trial or
Rachel Buffett's trial, and I wanted our listeners to hear
(01:07):
from them. They have compelling, sometimes very shocking stories about
their experiences with Rachel Buffett, Tim Wasniak, and Daniel Wasniac.
We've decided to separate each interview into their own specific episode,
with each new episode airing again over the next three nights.
(01:31):
So first up, we're going to hear from Ashley Mathis.
And Ashley was a friend and member of that Taco
Tuesday group that always convened together at Dave Barnhart and
Shake Sweats apartment at the cam Did Martiniques, and she
lived at Camden Martinique. She knew Sam very well, she
(01:52):
knew Julie. She also knew Dan and Rachel, and she
had some experiences, particularly with Rachel soon after the murders
and for a couple of weeks after those murders that
you'll definitely want to hear. So, without further ado, let's
listen as I interview Miss Ashley Mathis. Hello, Hi, Ashley Mathis.
(02:16):
This is Linda Sawyer. Welcome to Sleuth. Absolutely my pleasure.
I got a lot to say about this one. So
first give us a sense of, you know, your thoughts
on when you first met her and and what your
feelings were, and and then you can, certainly, you know,
go from there and and tell us your experiences and
why you feel the way you do about her. Okay,
(02:39):
So I met Rachel a couple of weeks before Dam
and Julie's murders. I think I told you this before,
but we had like a family dinner that we took
turned toasting every week, and a week before Damna Julie
worked killed, I hosted that dinner at my house and
Rachel and Dan were both there, and it was the
(03:02):
first time I really got to talk to her because
before that I knew her like an acquaintance but not
I'd never really considered her a friend. Um, she just
kind of rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning,
just all my interactions with her, she just seemed very
fake and I just she I just wasn't a fan
of her. So my first impression of her, which this
girl is not somebody that I want to be around.
(03:25):
And then the following week when we found out about
Sam and Julie, and it was the day after Dan
was arrested, and so she showed up, knocked on the door,
and Hayley and I came outside and sat on the
ground with her, and she was making phone calls notifying
family that Dan was in jail and that the wedding
(03:46):
was off. And that really rubbed me the wrong way
because I remember sitting there and thinking to myself, this
girl is showing zero emotions. This is supposed to be
her wedding day, her fiance is getting charged with double murder.
She's been here telling her family about this with zero emotions,
like never shut it here. She was very like it
(04:07):
was kind of like the conversations that she was having
were rehearsed, like she had thought about what she was
going to have to say to these people, and it
was like it was like scripted. And I remember looking
at Haley and thinking, like, there's something not right with
this girl, you know, like this was supposed to be
her wedding day. She's not crying. She's completely put together,
(04:27):
like almost like she was expecting it. So that was
my first encounter with her after Dan had been arrested.
That really upset me. I told Haley, remember after the
conversations and she went back to her apartment. Haley and
I went inside, and I said to Haley, there's something
not right with her, like almost disassociated right right, Like
(04:48):
she had no emotions attached to the situation whatsoever. To
any normal person like myself, that were my wedding day
and my fiance had just been charge of the double homicide,
I would be freaking out like I would be in
most people at the point where like, yes, so that
her reaction and the way that she carried those conversations
(05:08):
was really abnormal to me. In that moment, I knew
that she knew more than she was leading on. Did
you feel like she was intoxicated? Did she come with
a glass of wine or so? Not that day? So then, um,
about a week later is when she came to our apartment.
And she had only been to our apartment twice, one
(05:29):
at the dinner party and two when she came and
knocked on our door and had those conversations on her
wedding day. So then she came over a third time
about a week later, didn't even knock on our door,
and she just walked in with a glass of wine.
I remember it was about like six o'clock, six thirty,
and she just came barging into our apartment with a
glass of wine and walked straight like belined it to
(05:52):
the balcony, and Haley and I were sitting on the
couch like what are you doing here? And she was like, oh,
I want to see the view of the sunset from
your balcony, knowing very well that her apartment building, which
was the same apartment building as Sam's, blocked our view
of the sunset. So their apartment building was like right
across the way. If you went out to your deck,
(06:13):
you could basically see across into Sam's apartment. You could
see into Sam's apartment. I mean our balcony faced their
apartments straight across. So if you walk out on our
balcony and Sam's blind were open, you could see into
his living room in kitchen. So she made a bee
line right for your deck, right to my deck. Yep,
(06:36):
and Haley and I stood up, like what are you
doing here? Didn't even knock, just open the door and
welcomed herself in. And she had the attitude of everything's okay,
I'm drinking my glass of wine, going to look at
the sunset. Your your fiancee is in jail for a
double murder, and you come barging into somebody's apartment that
you barely know. I didn't even knock, just open the
(06:57):
door and walked in. Welcome yourself into our house, and
just go straight to our balcony to look at the sunset,
knowing very well that we can't see it because you're
building blocks it. So Haley and I both stood up
and walked over to her and told her, you need
to get out of our apartment because at that point,
her and I both knew that Rachel knew more than
she was leading on. We knew that she was lying,
(07:19):
We knew she she knew more than she was saying,
and it really upset us. And the fact that I
think that she welcomed herself in because she knew that
we would not let her come in if she knocked.
So I think her motive was to see if if
we could see anything into Sam's apartment. That seems like
(07:40):
what her intent was, and that was at the time
what you determined. Her intent was that there was a
nefarious reason why she was there, Absolutely no doubt in
my mind. Haley and I were really upset and we
were trying to voice her that we would like her
to leave. She wouldn't leave, and so I eventually grabbed
(08:01):
her by her hair and pulled her out of our
apartment because that was so mad. That's how strongly you
felt about that she was there because she was perhaps involved.
And why do you think she was looking into the apartment,
into Sam's apartment. I think that she wanted to see
if maybe we saw anything, because she's I think she
(08:21):
was trying to cover her tracks or dance tracks, just
seeing if there were any witnesses, any possible witnesses to
anything that might have gone down during the murders. I
have no doubt in my mind that's what she was
looking for, to see if we had a clear view
into the crime scene. Was she on the conversation, did
she have herself? When was she talking to anybody? She
(08:41):
wasn't talking to anybody. It was just her and her
gloss of wine. And you know, I makes me think
about a conversation she had with police after Dan was
arrested that Wednesday night from his bachelor party and they
brought her in. I think you were at at Jay's
(09:02):
apartment and Dave was there, and Miles was there, and
I think Rachel was there, and the police came in
and they brought her back to Costa Masa if you
recall that night, and I think she told police when
police told her they knew what time Julie arrived and
what time she was murdered. I remember noticing how flustered
(09:24):
she seemed on the tape when she realized they knew
exactly what time Julie arrived in Sam's apartment and what
time she was murdered. She she seemed very nervous about that,
Like you know the time that Julie arrived, You know
the exact time, And it makes you wonder if she's
if she's trying to look into his apartment from your
(09:45):
balcony and he's already arrested. Knowing what so many people
have told me about Rachel, it seems like she was
checking out whether or not you could see if she
was there at the apartment that night. I don't doubt
it at all. Do you think her role in Sam
Harrer and Julie Kape She's murders. Do you think her
(10:08):
role was more than accessory? I can't say for sure,
but I have a feeling that she knew before it happened.
Otherwise she would have reacted differently when she found out.
And that is my own personal opinion. But any normal
person that didn't know about a plot to kill somebody,
(10:29):
especially friends, I mean they were friends. Who are you
talking about? Who are you referring to when you say
they are friends? Rachel and Dan were friends with Sam,
and if if she had no idea that Dan was
plotting to kill Sam and Julie, she would have reacted
differently when she found out, and she didn't react, She
(10:51):
never shed a tear, she didn't show any emotions. So
that makes me think she knew what was going to
happen before it happened. She had time to prepare herself.
If things went south and Dan got caught, she already
had time to think about how to cover her own track.
You felt like everybody else that knew Sam and new Julie,
everybody else was pretty upset, right, Absolutely, we were all
(11:14):
a disaster. I mean, it was really hard to swallow.
It was really hard on all of us. It was
very emotional, and it's probably, i mean definitely one of
the hardest times in my life. And do you feel
that you're not alone in your feelings about Rachel and
(11:35):
her role in in these murders? Oh, I know I'm not.
I absolutely know I'm not. Anybody that lived at the
Kansa Martinique apartment complex and it was part of our family,
Like our close knit group of friends, we all feel
the same way about Rachel. Whenever you do have a
chance to connect, is that a topic of conversation? It
(11:59):
has come up, especially when I've talked to Haley and
Jake and Haley was your roommate at the time, and
Jake Sweat was Dave Barnhard's roommate, both at the game
to Martinique's um. But I think that as time has
gone on, especially with Jake, those wounds taken a long
time to heal, so we try not to talk about
(12:20):
it unless there's something going on with a child we
would like to discuss or whatnot. So it has come
up in conversation, and that's how I know that we
all are on the same page as far as Rachel
Buffett goes. And do you include in that group Dave Barnhard.
I haven't spoken to Dave directly, but I know that
Jake has and I know that Haley has, and both
(12:43):
of them mentioned that he was very upset about the
Rachel situation as well, and he felt that she had
something to do with it, so he has he has
changed his opinion then, because he obviously, for a long
time had strong feelings for her, and I think that
might have clouded some of his judgment. I think I
(13:05):
know that you're right. Um. I didn't know I had
heard rumors about Dave and Rachel before everything happened, but
after afterwards was when I heard about it, and it
made sense because I do remember he was kind of
in denial about Rachel being involved in the whole situation.
But I'm not sure if this is true or not
that just from the very few conversations I've had with
(13:26):
Jake and Haley, is that he might have changed his
mind about Rachel and her involvement over the years that
I haven't spoken. Yeah, I haven't spoken him directly, so
I don't know, but that was my understanding. Well, I
actually have been in contact with Dave intermittently throughout this investigation,
(13:46):
and he told me that he did have a relationship
with Julie. In fact, he slept with her two nights
before she was murdered. I don't know if you know that.
I did not know that he did, and I believe
he might have shared that with Rachel and knowing Rachel
(14:08):
as you do, even though I know it's not extensively,
but you certainly seem to know. Yes, I'm wondering if
that was part of it. It might have share as well.
Could be Do you feel as if I know that
these were friends of yours that you lost and friends
(14:28):
that you thought, maybe at the time were fake and
phony but not psychotic killers. Was it just shocking to
find out what you're new friends were capable of? Absolutely,
I mean it blew my mind. Because Dan wagsni Act
(14:51):
came off as the fun, outgoing guy that everybody got
along with. You wouldn't think that he would be capable
of something like that. So when we found out that
it was Dan, it was beyond shocking, I mean, and
the brutality of the murder. I mean, Sam was one
of the most gentle, kind hearted people I have ever
(15:13):
met in my entire life. He was so sweet, I mean,
he was such a doll, and knowing what happened to
him at the hands of one of his friends is awful,
especially he was going to help him, Absolutely, yes, I
mean Sam took time out of his day to go
help Dan, moved these items or whatever, and it was
(15:38):
all a plot to kill him. I mean, that is
so cold hearted and evil. It just it's still hard
to grasp to this day. And the brutality of what
he did to Sam after he killed him like that,
it's something that is very hard to grasp. The dismemberment, Yes,
it's awful, I mean it is. It's the me and
(16:02):
having spoken with Dan, and the fact that he went
on stage and performed that same night is disgusting to me, Like,
how can you carry on your normal life after what
you just did to two of your friends. Yeah, it's
like the real life Phantom of the Opera. It really is.
(16:22):
It's like it's psychotic. You you kill your friend in
the attic of the theater, and that night you're on
stage performing exactly. I just don't understand it. That is
not normal. And then to go back like you before.
I mean, he he murdered Sam in the attic of
the theater. He goes on stage that night and performs
(16:45):
to sell out crowd applause, and and then he goes
back to his house and Laure's Julie to Sam's apartment
and kills her. And then the next day he is
back to the theater, dismembering Sam, and then he's got
a performance that night. I know. It's sick. It is
(17:07):
sick and Sam. I mean the way he got Sam's
pin number, because obviously he couldn't he the the plan
would not have gone off if he couldn't get Sam's
pin number, and even the evil way in which he
got that, because he goes to Sam and asks him
to help him give him money for, you know, stave
(17:29):
off his eviction, and he goes with Sam to get
Sam says, I'll give you a hundred dollars for your wedding.
You don't have to pay me back. And he goes
with Sam and looks over his shoulder to get the
pin numbers. So so he knew, Okay, now the plan
is on. I'm going to murder you. Yeah, it's just it.
It's unbelievable. It's truly unthinking about it this day. Yeah,
(17:55):
eight years later and it's still hard to swallow. It
just feels like it was straight out of some kind
of Alfred Hitchcock movie. They thought they were acting apart yep,
it's yeah, it's crazy. It makes me wonder were they
acting the entire time? As soon as they found out
(18:16):
about Sam's financial situation. It's really hard not to believe
that they were acting. With everybody like to become close
with this person, Am, I just felt like they had
superior motives. Just makes me wonder like were any of
those friendships and relationships real or were they all acting?
Because even when Rachel went on Dr Phil, she had
(18:39):
to force herself to cry then and make herself look innocent.
But she couldn't even squeeze out one tier telling her
family the weddings off because of fiance is arrested for
double homicide of two of her friends. She is one
hell of an actress. If she can put on that
kind of ask on Dr Phil to make herself look innocent,
I have no doubt that she can put on and
ask for the rest of the people in her life. Well,
(19:00):
she really You could see that her whole demeanor change
when Dr Phil said you're an actress now, and a
very good one. Oh my gosh. That was enough to
just make her straighten up and smile. And she just thought, Wow,
I'm on national TV and Dr Phil's calling me a
great actress. In fact, it made reminded me of several
(19:21):
conversations I had with some of her girlfriends that stood
by her when she was arrested back in November, and
all of the news accounts were ex fiance of Wozniak
arrested for accessory after the fact, right, And she was
telling her friends, do you hear them? Do you hear
(19:41):
the news reports? They're calling me an actress. She didn't
care that she was being accused of being an accomplice
and a double murder. She cared more that she was
being lauded as this actress. Yeah, her mind is elsewhere.
She wants to play the victim, and it's all about herself,
not about anybody else or the family suffering or the
(20:03):
suffering that her and Dan have caused us as dam
and Julie's friends. All she cares about is herself. And
those charges of accessory after the fact are actually based
on Rachel's lies, with the idea that she was supposedly
covering up for Dan. But I think it had nothing
(20:23):
to do with Dan at that point. I don't think
she cared one iota about the fact that he was
going down. You're dead already, babe, she tells him in
one of her calls. I think she just wanted to
do whatever she could to make sure she got away clean,
and she was covering up her own role. Yeah, because
she's smart. The way that she awarded those jail calls
(20:45):
about the bag of evidence and all the little comments
that she made about that, It's like she made sure
that her voice was on recording downy as innocent as
she possibly could. Yet there was still no emotion in
her voice, zero, I think you just nailed it right
on the head. I believe that those calls were scripted.
Alibis that she could say, go to the recordings, listen.
(21:10):
In fact, she said it at Dr Phil. It's all
on the recordings. Go listen to the recordings where she's
feigning that she doesn't know any details about the plot
and what he did, and and uh, she just wanted
to make sure that she sounded like an innocent bystander. Absolutely,
(21:31):
it was all planned. It was all playing Rachel's game.
She played a lot of people like fiddles. It's really sad.
Do you feel like she was the matriarch in that relationship?
Was she in control? Did Dan do whatever Rachel wanted?
I do believe that, I really do. I mean just
(21:51):
and that The only reason I say that with confidence
is because of how she behaved and how she spoke
in the days following Dan's arrest and the behavior that
came in the following week. I remember her getting out
of my balcony and I would see Rachel drive in
with her sunglasses on and windows down, music flaring, just
like life is going on. Dan went down for the cryings,
(22:15):
and she's still living her perfect little life driving in
and out of the garage at Camden Martinique like nothing happened.
It's just well, he took the fall for a crime
that I was aware of. Sucked for him, but I'm
still okay. That's how I thought. And speaking of driving
in and out of Camden Martinique, I wanted you to
(22:36):
share with our listeners the story that you shared with
me about you and Jake on the balcony the Saturday
morning after Sam's disappearance on Friday, and nobody knows at
this point where Sam is. Nobody knows at this point
(22:56):
that Julie is murdered and lying lifeless in Sam's apartment.
This is that Saturday morning when you see Sam's car
drive in and you thought, finally Sam has arrived home.
Would you share with our listeners that story? Please? Sure? Yes.
So Jake and I were standing out on our balcony
um and we were talking about where is Sam because
(23:19):
we had gone over and knocked on his door. He
didn't show up to his parents house for dinner. Nobody
knew where he was. We were all wondering where is Sam. Well,
then we're standing out on the balcony and we see
Sam's car come in and we're like, oh, there's Sam.
But then you look in the car. Sam is not driving,
and in the passenger seat we saw somebody with a
(23:41):
black hat on and sunglasses and we were like, well,
who is that? And it's clearly not Sam driving the car.
And that was a really big red flag for us
because if nobody knows where Sam is yet here's his
car with somebody driving it that isn't Sam. And then
this passenger who we didn't know at the time who
(24:01):
it was. I'm not sure if they ever figured out
who it was, whether it be no Ah Buffet or
Dan Waziacs brother, but it definitely wasn't Sam. So that
really threw us off. That was concerning. And Jake said
that the driver was was Dan? Dan Wasniac? Yeah. So
he was on my right side and he saw the driver.
(24:22):
I didn't see the driver, but I said, that's not Sam.
He's like, is that Dan? And I said, I don't know.
I didn't. I didn't see the driver's face. I just
saw his arm on the wheel. So Jake had a
better view of the driver. I got the passenger side,
and I remember him saying, is that Dan? It looks
like Dan, but at that point whatever, like maybe Sam
let and borrow his car. We don't know, yes, because
(24:45):
normally you said if you I guess Jake was yelling
out Sam, Sam, And normally I guess. Jake said to
me that he was with you on the balcony and
he noticed the car too and realized it wasn't Sam driving,
but in fact it was Dan Wasniak driving, but initially
he was calling out Sam's name, and he said Sam
(25:06):
would have stopped the car and popped out and waved
and and and he didn't. Do you do you remember
why you guys didn't go down to the garage too
to confront whoever it was in Sam's car. I don't remember,
um at that point. I don't think Sam had been
missing that long, UM. But I do remember I was
facing Jake, and then Jake was facing me, and so
(25:28):
Jake could see in the direction of the driveway coming
into the apartment complex. So he's the first one that
saw Sam's car, so he started waving his hand yelling Sam,
and I turned around. So the car drove below our
balcony and was waiting to go into the garage to
their building, to Dan and Sam's building, and that's when
as they were turning, I saw the passenger and Jake
(25:50):
was like, is that Dan? And then that was the
end of that. They drove in and he was like, well,
that was weird. To this day, I wish that we
would have gone down there. I wish we would have,
but for some reason we didn't. At that point, it
was like it was nervous. We were nervous because dam
wasn't contacting anybody, but he hadn't been missing that long
(26:12):
to have it be that big of a concern. We
knew that Dan was planning on going to dinner and
his parents, Um, we weren't sure what had happened after
that or if he had ever gone, So this all
kind of unfolded before we knew what happened. Well, I
do have a source that told me that that was
(26:33):
Dan and Tim, and Tim was there to help him
clean up the apartment, the blood position, Julie's body write
the words fuck you all yours on the back of
her sweater, and uh, I guess Tim lightened up some
things he thought might have had some value in that
apartment and took them with him, and yeah, and yet
(26:56):
Tim ended up being a witness for the prosecution. They
needed him to testify against his brother, so he pled
guilty to a felony and received no jail time, Which
is interesting because I've often at this point heard Matt
(27:16):
Murphy frame Tim Wazniak as just another victim of Dan Wasniak,
just like Sam Hare and Julie Kibibishi, and I find
that to be disturbing. It makes me sick to hear
that if Jake and I would have just gone down
to Sam's apartment when we saw his car pooling, that
(27:38):
would have changed everything. If if we had just gone
down there, knowing now what they were doing and why
they were there, it makes me sick. It's easy to
say in hindsight, it's uh it you do wonder. Of course,
you play these things in your mind, but there was
(28:00):
at that point nothing that could have been done. Both
your friends were already gone, and maybe it would have
it would have bolstered the case against Tim Wazniak. Yeah,
it's sad. I just I think about dam and Julie
every day. I mean, I still reach out to Steve
(28:20):
and Raquel, and I'm always thinking about them, and I
just wish that there could have been some signs or
something that we could have done to prevent this, because
it's just it's heartbreaking. I mean, those two families lost
their children, and Stephen Roquel lost their only son because
(28:41):
of money and greed and evil. It's just it's I
I don't know, it's heartbreaking, heartbreaking. Julie so happy, beautiful dancer,
beautiful heart, just the sweetest thing. And she's just coming
over to be a good friend to Sam. She sought
her tiara on from her brother's engagement and she's going
(29:05):
over to Sam's apartment to be a good friend and
she's murdered. It's I don't I don't understand it. And
it's all for her to be a prop in some sick,
twisted murder mystery plan that they concocted so that they
can go get a few bucks that they didn't earn
(29:26):
so they can have a nice cruise. Yeah, it really
is disgusting. One of the saddest tales, it is. And
the Hairs are the most amazing people. I mean, Steve
Hair has such a huge heart, He's so strong and
he's been a great support to Sam's friends, even though
(29:48):
he's dealing with his own grief and lost and yeah,
he's still of course, he's dedicated to getting justice for
his son in every way as we all are. But
I mean, his his strength is amazing. I mean him
and Rock Help both are just amazing people. And it's
(30:08):
just so unfair and heartbreaking that this happened to those people.
They're the last people to deserve that. And all of
Sam's friends and all of you that check in with
them all the time means so much to them. They
don't feel alone when they hear from from all of
you at different points in your life. So keep doing
what you're doing, because it really does matter to them.
(30:31):
And I just I'm always so amazed, particularly with Steve,
that he can maintain that sense of humor and and
make me laugh when we're talking about the most horrific
of of tragedies in his life, like took away his life,
and yet he still finds a sense a reason to laugh.
(30:51):
I just he inspires me, right, He just continues to
find joy in lines in any way that he can.
And it's like I said, it's inspiring. If he can
survive that and get through that and continue living life
with the attitude that he has, nothing can get in
the way of anybody else's happiness and joy in their
(31:12):
life were so blessed. And and Steve continues to see
himself as blessed regardless of what happened to him and
his family literally ripped apart by someone so evil, but
he still has the joy in his life. And it's
just it's amazing, it really is. It is. Indeed, Actually,
(31:32):
do you have anything more that you would like listeners
to know about the Rachel Buffett you met so briefly
way back in Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that some
of the listeners have probably seen the Doctor Phil episode
with Rachel Buffett, and I'm sure a lot of people
(31:53):
probably believed her. But let me tell you from personal experience,
you can't believe a word that comes out of that
girl's mouth. Everything she says is a lie. It's all
staged and scripted for her own benefit. And I just
I I hope we get justice. I mean, she needs
to be locked up just like Dan. She's just as
much of an animal as he is. And I just
(32:16):
I hope we get justice because she deserves to be
behind bars for the rest of her life. In my opinion,
thank you so much, Ashley for your time and your insights. Absolutely,
I appreciate it and best of luck to you. Thank
you so much when it was great talking to you.
You have a wonderful day. You two good vife. Next
(32:51):
up on Sleuth, we interview Kristin Crane, who was formerly
Kristen Burgo, Moscow and went to college with Rachel and
as quite a few story raised to tell us about
her experience performing alongside her in their school theater. If
you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth, share it with a
(33:11):
friend and be sure to leave a rating or a review.
Follow Sleuth on I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you
listen to podcasts so that you never miss an episode
Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language.
If she's trying to look into his apartment from your
balcony and he's already arrested, Knowing what so many people
have told me about Rachel, it seems like she was
checking out whether or not you could see if she
was there at the apartment that night, I don't doubt
(00:24):
it at all. Welcome to Sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. This
week on Sleuth, we decided to do something very different
with our podcast. We have three separate interviews over the
(00:47):
next three nights, one with Ashley Mathis, another with Kristen
Burgo Moscow who is now Kristen Crane, and the last
being Daniel hulk Yard. These individuals I felt very strongly
could have been witnesses in either Dan Wazniak's trial or
Rachel Buffett's trial, and I wanted our listeners to hear
(01:07):
from them. They have compelling, sometimes very shocking stories about
their experiences with Rachel Buffett, Tim Wasniak, and Daniel Wasniac.
We've decided to separate each interview into their own specific episode,
with each new episode airing again over the next three nights.
(01:31):
So first up, we're going to hear from Ashley Mathis.
And Ashley was a friend and member of that Taco
Tuesday group that always convened together at Dave Barnhart and
Shake Sweats apartment at the cam Did Martiniques, and she
lived at Camden Martinique. She knew Sam very well, she
(01:52):
knew Julie. She also knew Dan and Rachel, and she
had some experiences, particularly with Rachel soon after the murders
and for a couple of weeks after those murders that
you'll definitely want to hear. So, without further ado, let's
listen as I interview Miss Ashley Mathis. Hello, Hi, Ashley Mathis.
(02:16):
This is Linda Sawyer. Welcome to Sleuth. Absolutely my pleasure.
I got a lot to say about this one. So
first give us a sense of, you know, your thoughts
on when you first met her and and what your
feelings were, and and then you can, certainly, you know,
go from there and and tell us your experiences and
why you feel the way you do about her. Okay,
(02:39):
So I met Rachel a couple of weeks before Dam
and Julie's murders. I think I told you this before,
but we had like a family dinner that we took
turned toasting every week, and a week before Damna Julie
worked killed, I hosted that dinner at my house and
Rachel and Dan were both there, and it was the
(03:02):
first time I really got to talk to her because
before that I knew her like an acquaintance but not
I'd never really considered her a friend. Um, she just
kind of rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning,
just all my interactions with her, she just seemed very
fake and I just she I just wasn't a fan
of her. So my first impression of her, which this
girl is not somebody that I want to be around.
(03:25):
And then the following week when we found out about
Sam and Julie, and it was the day after Dan
was arrested, and so she showed up, knocked on the door,
and Hayley and I came outside and sat on the
ground with her, and she was making phone calls notifying
family that Dan was in jail and that the wedding
(03:46):
was off. And that really rubbed me the wrong way
because I remember sitting there and thinking to myself, this
girl is showing zero emotions. This is supposed to be
her wedding day, her fiance is getting charged with double murder.
She's been here telling her family about this with zero emotions,
like never shut it here. She was very like it
(04:07):
was kind of like the conversations that she was having
were rehearsed, like she had thought about what she was
going to have to say to these people, and it
was like it was like scripted. And I remember looking
at Haley and thinking, like, there's something not right with
this girl, you know, like this was supposed to be
her wedding day. She's not crying. She's completely put together,
(04:27):
like almost like she was expecting it. So that was
my first encounter with her after Dan had been arrested.
That really upset me. I told Haley, remember after the
conversations and she went back to her apartment. Haley and
I went inside, and I said to Haley, there's something
not right with her, like almost disassociated right right, Like
(04:48):
she had no emotions attached to the situation whatsoever. To
any normal person like myself, that were my wedding day
and my fiance had just been charge of the double homicide,
I would be freaking out like I would be in
most people at the point where like, yes, so that
her reaction and the way that she carried those conversations
(05:08):
was really abnormal to me. In that moment, I knew
that she knew more than she was leading on. Did
you feel like she was intoxicated? Did she come with
a glass of wine or so? Not that day? So then, um,
about a week later is when she came to our apartment.
And she had only been to our apartment twice, one
(05:29):
at the dinner party and two when she came and
knocked on our door and had those conversations on her
wedding day. So then she came over a third time
about a week later, didn't even knock on our door,
and she just walked in with a glass of wine.
I remember it was about like six o'clock, six thirty,
and she just came barging into our apartment with a
glass of wine and walked straight like belined it to
(05:52):
the balcony, and Haley and I were sitting on the
couch like what are you doing here? And she was like, oh,
I want to see the view of the sunset from
your balcony, knowing very well that her apartment building, which
was the same apartment building as Sam's, blocked our view
of the sunset. So their apartment building was like right
across the way. If you went out to your deck,
(06:13):
you could basically see across into Sam's apartment. You could
see into Sam's apartment. I mean our balcony faced their
apartments straight across. So if you walk out on our
balcony and Sam's blind were open, you could see into
his living room in kitchen. So she made a bee
line right for your deck, right to my deck. Yep,
(06:36):
and Haley and I stood up, like what are you
doing here? Didn't even knock, just open the door and
welcomed herself in. And she had the attitude of everything's okay,
I'm drinking my glass of wine, going to look at
the sunset. Your your fiancee is in jail for a
double murder, and you come barging into somebody's apartment that
you barely know. I didn't even knock, just open the
(06:57):
door and walked in. Welcome yourself into our house, and
just go straight to our balcony to look at the sunset,
knowing very well that we can't see it because you're
building blocks it. So Haley and I both stood up
and walked over to her and told her, you need
to get out of our apartment because at that point,
her and I both knew that Rachel knew more than
she was leading on. We knew that she was lying,
(07:19):
We knew she she knew more than she was saying,
and it really upset us. And the fact that I
think that she welcomed herself in because she knew that
we would not let her come in if she knocked.
So I think her motive was to see if if
we could see anything into Sam's apartment. That seems like
(07:40):
what her intent was, and that was at the time
what you determined. Her intent was that there was a
nefarious reason why she was there, Absolutely no doubt in
my mind. Haley and I were really upset and we
were trying to voice her that we would like her
to leave. She wouldn't leave, and so I eventually grabbed
(08:01):
her by her hair and pulled her out of our
apartment because that was so mad. That's how strongly you
felt about that she was there because she was perhaps involved.
And why do you think she was looking into the apartment,
into Sam's apartment. I think that she wanted to see
if maybe we saw anything, because she's I think she
(08:21):
was trying to cover her tracks or dance tracks, just
seeing if there were any witnesses, any possible witnesses to
anything that might have gone down during the murders. I
have no doubt in my mind that's what she was
looking for, to see if we had a clear view
into the crime scene. Was she on the conversation, did
she have herself? When was she talking to anybody? She
(08:41):
wasn't talking to anybody. It was just her and her
gloss of wine. And you know, I makes me think
about a conversation she had with police after Dan was
arrested that Wednesday night from his bachelor party and they
brought her in. I think you were at at Jay's
(09:02):
apartment and Dave was there, and Miles was there, and
I think Rachel was there, and the police came in
and they brought her back to Costa Masa if you
recall that night, and I think she told police when
police told her they knew what time Julie arrived and
what time she was murdered. I remember noticing how flustered
(09:24):
she seemed on the tape when she realized they knew
exactly what time Julie arrived in Sam's apartment and what
time she was murdered. She she seemed very nervous about that,
Like you know the time that Julie arrived, You know
the exact time, And it makes you wonder if she's
if she's trying to look into his apartment from your
(09:45):
balcony and he's already arrested. Knowing what so many people
have told me about Rachel, it seems like she was
checking out whether or not you could see if she
was there at the apartment that night. I don't doubt
it at all. Do you think her role in Sam
Harrer and Julie Kape She's murders. Do you think her
(10:08):
role was more than accessory? I can't say for sure,
but I have a feeling that she knew before it happened.
Otherwise she would have reacted differently when she found out.
And that is my own personal opinion. But any normal
person that didn't know about a plot to kill somebody,
(10:29):
especially friends, I mean they were friends. Who are you
talking about? Who are you referring to when you say
they are friends? Rachel and Dan were friends with Sam,
and if if she had no idea that Dan was
plotting to kill Sam and Julie, she would have reacted
differently when she found out, and she didn't react, She
(10:51):
never shed a tear, she didn't show any emotions. So
that makes me think she knew what was going to
happen before it happened. She had time to prepare herself.
If things went south and Dan got caught, she already
had time to think about how to cover her own track.
You felt like everybody else that knew Sam and new Julie,
everybody else was pretty upset, right, Absolutely, we were all
(11:14):
a disaster. I mean, it was really hard to swallow.
It was really hard on all of us. It was
very emotional, and it's probably, i mean definitely one of
the hardest times in my life. And do you feel
that you're not alone in your feelings about Rachel and
(11:35):
her role in in these murders? Oh, I know I'm not.
I absolutely know I'm not. Anybody that lived at the
Kansa Martinique apartment complex and it was part of our family,
Like our close knit group of friends, we all feel
the same way about Rachel. Whenever you do have a
chance to connect, is that a topic of conversation? It
(11:59):
has come up, especially when I've talked to Haley and
Jake and Haley was your roommate at the time, and
Jake Sweat was Dave Barnhard's roommate, both at the game
to Martinique's um. But I think that as time has
gone on, especially with Jake, those wounds taken a long
time to heal, so we try not to talk about
(12:20):
it unless there's something going on with a child we
would like to discuss or whatnot. So it has come
up in conversation, and that's how I know that we
all are on the same page as far as Rachel
Buffett goes. And do you include in that group Dave Barnhard.
I haven't spoken to Dave directly, but I know that
Jake has and I know that Haley has, and both
(12:43):
of them mentioned that he was very upset about the
Rachel situation as well, and he felt that she had
something to do with it, so he has he has
changed his opinion then, because he obviously, for a long
time had strong feelings for her, and I think that
might have clouded some of his judgment. I think I
(13:05):
know that you're right. Um. I didn't know I had
heard rumors about Dave and Rachel before everything happened, but
after afterwards was when I heard about it, and it
made sense because I do remember he was kind of
in denial about Rachel being involved in the whole situation.
But I'm not sure if this is true or not
that just from the very few conversations I've had with
(13:26):
Jake and Haley, is that he might have changed his
mind about Rachel and her involvement over the years that
I haven't spoken. Yeah, I haven't spoken him directly, so
I don't know, but that was my understanding. Well, I
actually have been in contact with Dave intermittently throughout this investigation,
(13:46):
and he told me that he did have a relationship
with Julie. In fact, he slept with her two nights
before she was murdered. I don't know if you know that.
I did not know that he did, and I believe
he might have shared that with Rachel and knowing Rachel
(14:08):
as you do, even though I know it's not extensively,
but you certainly seem to know. Yes, I'm wondering if
that was part of it. It might have share as well.
Could be Do you feel as if I know that
these were friends of yours that you lost and friends
(14:28):
that you thought, maybe at the time were fake and
phony but not psychotic killers. Was it just shocking to
find out what you're new friends were capable of? Absolutely,
I mean it blew my mind. Because Dan wagsni Act
(14:51):
came off as the fun, outgoing guy that everybody got
along with. You wouldn't think that he would be capable
of something like that. So when we found out that
it was Dan, it was beyond shocking, I mean, and
the brutality of the murder. I mean, Sam was one
of the most gentle, kind hearted people I have ever
(15:13):
met in my entire life. He was so sweet, I mean,
he was such a doll, and knowing what happened to
him at the hands of one of his friends is awful,
especially he was going to help him, Absolutely, yes, I
mean Sam took time out of his day to go
help Dan, moved these items or whatever, and it was
(15:38):
all a plot to kill him. I mean, that is
so cold hearted and evil. It just it's still hard
to grasp to this day. And the brutality of what
he did to Sam after he killed him like that,
it's something that is very hard to grasp. The dismemberment, Yes,
it's awful, I mean it is. It's the me and
(16:02):
having spoken with Dan, and the fact that he went
on stage and performed that same night is disgusting to me, Like,
how can you carry on your normal life after what
you just did to two of your friends. Yeah, it's
like the real life Phantom of the Opera. It really is.
(16:22):
It's like it's psychotic. You you kill your friend in
the attic of the theater, and that night you're on
stage performing exactly. I just don't understand it. That is
not normal. And then to go back like you before.
I mean, he he murdered Sam in the attic of
the theater. He goes on stage that night and performs
(16:45):
to sell out crowd applause, and and then he goes
back to his house and Laure's Julie to Sam's apartment
and kills her. And then the next day he is
back to the theater, dismembering Sam, and then he's got
a performance that night. I know. It's sick. It is
(17:07):
sick and Sam. I mean the way he got Sam's
pin number, because obviously he couldn't he the the plan
would not have gone off if he couldn't get Sam's
pin number, and even the evil way in which he
got that, because he goes to Sam and asks him
to help him give him money for, you know, stave
(17:29):
off his eviction, and he goes with Sam to get
Sam says, I'll give you a hundred dollars for your wedding.
You don't have to pay me back. And he goes
with Sam and looks over his shoulder to get the
pin numbers. So so he knew, Okay, now the plan
is on. I'm going to murder you. Yeah, it's just it.
It's unbelievable. It's truly unthinking about it this day. Yeah,
(17:55):
eight years later and it's still hard to swallow. It
just feels like it was straight out of some kind
of Alfred Hitchcock movie. They thought they were acting apart yep,
it's yeah, it's crazy. It makes me wonder were they
acting the entire time? As soon as they found out
(18:16):
about Sam's financial situation. It's really hard not to believe
that they were acting. With everybody like to become close
with this person, Am, I just felt like they had
superior motives. Just makes me wonder like were any of
those friendships and relationships real or were they all acting?
Because even when Rachel went on Dr Phil, she had
(18:39):
to force herself to cry then and make herself look innocent.
But she couldn't even squeeze out one tier telling her
family the weddings off because of fiance is arrested for
double homicide of two of her friends. She is one
hell of an actress. If she can put on that
kind of ask on Dr Phil to make herself look innocent,
I have no doubt that she can put on and
ask for the rest of the people in her life. Well,
(19:00):
she really You could see that her whole demeanor change
when Dr Phil said you're an actress now, and a
very good one. Oh my gosh. That was enough to
just make her straighten up and smile. And she just thought, Wow,
I'm on national TV and Dr Phil's calling me a
great actress. In fact, it made reminded me of several
(19:21):
conversations I had with some of her girlfriends that stood
by her when she was arrested back in November, and
all of the news accounts were ex fiance of Wozniak
arrested for accessory after the fact, right, And she was
telling her friends, do you hear them? Do you hear
(19:41):
the news reports? They're calling me an actress. She didn't
care that she was being accused of being an accomplice
and a double murder. She cared more that she was
being lauded as this actress. Yeah, her mind is elsewhere.
She wants to play the victim, and it's all about herself,
not about anybody else or the family suffering or the
(20:03):
suffering that her and Dan have caused us as dam
and Julie's friends. All she cares about is herself. And
those charges of accessory after the fact are actually based
on Rachel's lies, with the idea that she was supposedly
covering up for Dan. But I think it had nothing
(20:23):
to do with Dan at that point. I don't think
she cared one iota about the fact that he was
going down. You're dead already, babe, she tells him in
one of her calls. I think she just wanted to
do whatever she could to make sure she got away clean,
and she was covering up her own role. Yeah, because
she's smart. The way that she awarded those jail calls
(20:45):
about the bag of evidence and all the little comments
that she made about that, It's like she made sure
that her voice was on recording downy as innocent as
she possibly could. Yet there was still no emotion in
her voice, zero, I think you just nailed it right
on the head. I believe that those calls were scripted.
Alibis that she could say, go to the recordings, listen.
(21:10):
In fact, she said it at Dr Phil. It's all
on the recordings. Go listen to the recordings where she's
feigning that she doesn't know any details about the plot
and what he did, and and uh, she just wanted
to make sure that she sounded like an innocent bystander. Absolutely,
(21:31):
it was all planned. It was all playing Rachel's game.
She played a lot of people like fiddles. It's really sad.
Do you feel like she was the matriarch in that relationship?
Was she in control? Did Dan do whatever Rachel wanted?
I do believe that, I really do. I mean just
(21:51):
and that The only reason I say that with confidence
is because of how she behaved and how she spoke
in the days following Dan's arrest and the behavior that
came in the following week. I remember her getting out
of my balcony and I would see Rachel drive in
with her sunglasses on and windows down, music flaring, just
like life is going on. Dan went down for the cryings,
(22:15):
and she's still living her perfect little life driving in
and out of the garage at Camden Martinique like nothing happened.
It's just well, he took the fall for a crime
that I was aware of. Sucked for him, but I'm
still okay. That's how I thought. And speaking of driving
in and out of Camden Martinique, I wanted you to
(22:36):
share with our listeners the story that you shared with
me about you and Jake on the balcony the Saturday
morning after Sam's disappearance on Friday, and nobody knows at
this point where Sam is. Nobody knows at this point
(22:56):
that Julie is murdered and lying lifeless in Sam's apartment.
This is that Saturday morning when you see Sam's car
drive in and you thought, finally Sam has arrived home.
Would you share with our listeners that story? Please? Sure? Yes.
So Jake and I were standing out on our balcony
um and we were talking about where is Sam because
(23:19):
we had gone over and knocked on his door. He
didn't show up to his parents house for dinner. Nobody
knew where he was. We were all wondering where is Sam. Well,
then we're standing out on the balcony and we see
Sam's car come in and we're like, oh, there's Sam.
But then you look in the car. Sam is not driving,
and in the passenger seat we saw somebody with a
(23:41):
black hat on and sunglasses and we were like, well,
who is that? And it's clearly not Sam driving the car.
And that was a really big red flag for us
because if nobody knows where Sam is yet here's his
car with somebody driving it that isn't Sam. And then
this passenger who we didn't know at the time who
(24:01):
it was. I'm not sure if they ever figured out
who it was, whether it be no Ah Buffet or
Dan Waziacs brother, but it definitely wasn't Sam. So that
really threw us off. That was concerning. And Jake said
that the driver was was Dan? Dan Wasniac? Yeah. So
he was on my right side and he saw the driver.
(24:22):
I didn't see the driver, but I said, that's not Sam.
He's like, is that Dan? And I said, I don't know.
I didn't. I didn't see the driver's face. I just
saw his arm on the wheel. So Jake had a
better view of the driver. I got the passenger side,
and I remember him saying, is that Dan? It looks
like Dan, but at that point whatever, like maybe Sam
let and borrow his car. We don't know, yes, because
(24:45):
normally you said if you I guess Jake was yelling
out Sam, Sam, And normally I guess. Jake said to
me that he was with you on the balcony and
he noticed the car too and realized it wasn't Sam driving,
but in fact it was Dan Wasniak driving, but initially
he was calling out Sam's name, and he said Sam
(25:06):
would have stopped the car and popped out and waved
and and and he didn't. Do you do you remember
why you guys didn't go down to the garage too
to confront whoever it was in Sam's car. I don't remember,
um at that point. I don't think Sam had been
missing that long, UM. But I do remember I was
facing Jake, and then Jake was facing me, and so
(25:28):
Jake could see in the direction of the driveway coming
into the apartment complex. So he's the first one that
saw Sam's car, so he started waving his hand yelling Sam,
and I turned around. So the car drove below our
balcony and was waiting to go into the garage to
their building, to Dan and Sam's building, and that's when
as they were turning, I saw the passenger and Jake
(25:50):
was like, is that Dan? And then that was the
end of that. They drove in and he was like, well,
that was weird. To this day, I wish that we
would have gone down there. I wish we would have,
but for some reason we didn't. At that point, it
was like it was nervous. We were nervous because dam
wasn't contacting anybody, but he hadn't been missing that long
(26:12):
to have it be that big of a concern. We
knew that Dan was planning on going to dinner and
his parents, Um, we weren't sure what had happened after
that or if he had ever gone, So this all
kind of unfolded before we knew what happened. Well, I
do have a source that told me that that was
(26:33):
Dan and Tim, and Tim was there to help him
clean up the apartment, the blood position, Julie's body write
the words fuck you all yours on the back of
her sweater, and uh, I guess Tim lightened up some
things he thought might have had some value in that
apartment and took them with him, and yeah, and yet
(26:56):
Tim ended up being a witness for the prosecution. They
needed him to testify against his brother, so he pled
guilty to a felony and received no jail time, Which
is interesting because I've often at this point heard Matt
(27:16):
Murphy frame Tim Wazniak as just another victim of Dan Wasniak,
just like Sam Hare and Julie Kibibishi, and I find
that to be disturbing. It makes me sick to hear
that if Jake and I would have just gone down
to Sam's apartment when we saw his car pooling, that
(27:38):
would have changed everything. If if we had just gone
down there, knowing now what they were doing and why
they were there, it makes me sick. It's easy to
say in hindsight, it's uh it you do wonder. Of course,
you play these things in your mind, but there was
(28:00):
at that point nothing that could have been done. Both
your friends were already gone, and maybe it would have
it would have bolstered the case against Tim Wazniak. Yeah,
it's sad. I just I think about dam and Julie
every day. I mean, I still reach out to Steve
(28:20):
and Raquel, and I'm always thinking about them, and I
just wish that there could have been some signs or
something that we could have done to prevent this, because
it's just it's heartbreaking. I mean, those two families lost
their children, and Stephen Roquel lost their only son because
(28:41):
of money and greed and evil. It's just it's I
I don't know, it's heartbreaking, heartbreaking. Julie so happy, beautiful dancer,
beautiful heart, just the sweetest thing. And she's just coming
over to be a good friend to Sam. She sought
her tiara on from her brother's engagement and she's going
(29:05):
over to Sam's apartment to be a good friend and
she's murdered. It's I don't I don't understand it. And
it's all for her to be a prop in some sick,
twisted murder mystery plan that they concocted so that they
can go get a few bucks that they didn't earn
(29:26):
so they can have a nice cruise. Yeah, it really
is disgusting. One of the saddest tales, it is. And
the Hairs are the most amazing people. I mean, Steve
Hair has such a huge heart, He's so strong and
he's been a great support to Sam's friends, even though
(29:48):
he's dealing with his own grief and lost and yeah,
he's still of course, he's dedicated to getting justice for
his son in every way as we all are. But
I mean, his his strength is amazing. I mean him
and Rock Help both are just amazing people. And it's
(30:08):
just so unfair and heartbreaking that this happened to those people.
They're the last people to deserve that. And all of
Sam's friends and all of you that check in with
them all the time means so much to them. They
don't feel alone when they hear from from all of
you at different points in your life. So keep doing
what you're doing, because it really does matter to them.
(30:31):
And I just I'm always so amazed, particularly with Steve,
that he can maintain that sense of humor and and
make me laugh when we're talking about the most horrific
of of tragedies in his life, like took away his life,
and yet he still finds a sense a reason to laugh.
(30:51):
I just he inspires me, right, He just continues to
find joy in lines in any way that he can.
And it's like I said, it's inspiring. If he can
survive that and get through that and continue living life
with the attitude that he has, nothing can get in
the way of anybody else's happiness and joy in their
(31:12):
life were so blessed. And and Steve continues to see
himself as blessed regardless of what happened to him and
his family literally ripped apart by someone so evil, but
he still has the joy in his life. And it's
just it's amazing, it really is. It is. Indeed, Actually,
(31:32):
do you have anything more that you would like listeners
to know about the Rachel Buffett you met so briefly
way back in Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that some
of the listeners have probably seen the Doctor Phil episode
with Rachel Buffett, and I'm sure a lot of people
(31:53):
probably believed her. But let me tell you from personal experience,
you can't believe a word that comes out of that
girl's mouth. Everything she says is a lie. It's all
staged and scripted for her own benefit. And I just
I I hope we get justice. I mean, she needs
to be locked up just like Dan. She's just as
much of an animal as he is. And I just
(32:16):
I hope we get justice because she deserves to be
behind bars for the rest of her life. In my opinion,
thank you so much, Ashley for your time and your insights. Absolutely,
I appreciate it and best of luck to you. Thank
you so much when it was great talking to you.
You have a wonderful day. You two good vife. Next
(32:51):
up on Sleuth, we interview Kristin Crane, who was formerly
Kristen Burgo, Moscow and went to college with Rachel and
as quite a few story raised to tell us about
her experience performing alongside her in their school theater. If
you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth, share it with a
(33:11):
friend and be sure to leave a rating or a review.
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