11: It was the fall of 2006 when Krystin Crane enrolled in Long Beach Community. Krystin decided to join the theatre department, and there is where she met Rachel Buffett. At first, Krystin thought that the young beauty was nice - but a bit awkward. After learning that Rachel was homeschooled, Krystin attributed Rachel's social disconnect to the lack of peer engagement that Rachel had experienced during Rachel’s formative years. But one day, during a break in their theatre rehearsal of Antigone, Rachel invited Krystin for a coffee run. It was then that Krystin learned just how disconnected Rachel was from any moral sense of right and wrong.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language.
Out of the blue, we were talking about mydea and
she just went, if you could get away with killing someone,
would you kill them? And I know, I was kind
of like a taken back. I thought it was an
odd question and I just answered no, and she said,
(00:24):
I would welcome to sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. Next up,
we welcome Christen Burgo Moscow now Kristen Crane, who knew
(00:46):
Rachel Buffett during their time together as students attending Long
Beach Community College's theater department. Kristen's stories about her encounters
with Rachel our foreboding tales of a future that Kristen
early predicted for Rachel just two weeks before the murders.
Hey Kristen, Hi, how are you So? You were a
(01:11):
witness at Daniel wazni next trial and you shared with
the court a lot of your observations and experiences with her,
which pretty much happened during that time you were at
the Long Beach Community College? Is that correct? Correct? So
(01:31):
why don't you give us a sense of when you
first met her, what was the first encounter you had?
And and uh, take us back to that time. Sure,
um at the college campus, I was part of the
theater program, and it was a tight knit community to
be in. Most of us were friends. But I did
(01:53):
feel that regarding Rachel there was kind of a divide.
There were some people that I thought she was really
and then there were some people that thought she was
very nice. And I'm the type of person that likes
to you know, I like to come to conclusions on
my own, so I gave everyone a fair chance. I
won't let somebody else's opinion as somebody else kind of
(02:15):
sway me. So when I first met Rachel, I thought
she was nice. Different, but I did think she was nice.
So my initial impression was that she was nice. And
when I say she was different, it was kind of
obvious that she was a little bit more sheltered, I
want to say, than most people at that age, because
(02:36):
I think abound the time I was start either nineteen
or I think it was the fall of two thousand
and six. Said yeah, so then I would have been
I would have been nineteen. Yeah, so for me and
my experience of other nineteen year old and then I
did find out that she had been homeschooled, I attributed
it to that, like, maybe she's just a little socially
awkward because she had been homeschooled. Not to attack anybody
(02:58):
that's been home school When you're that, you just don't
have you don't have the experiences of being amongst your peers.
You just don't have that social aspect of your growing education,
right right? Did you get close with her because you
were both in the theater department there, So how I
(03:19):
got to know her better was and I we were
both cast in a show together. Um, and that was
Anti Guny. We were in Antigny together. Yeah, we were
casting a show together. And so I lived in Orange County,
so it was a far drive for me. So I
would I would have classes in the morning and afternoon
and then there would be like a two hour gap
(03:41):
where between my classes and rehearsals, so I'd kind of
just be stuck on the campus and a lot of
times Rachel had the same gap as I did. So
since we were in the show together, I was just
kind of like, hey, you want to hang out and
keep each other company between rehearsals and class So that's
kind of how I got to know her better. You
(04:04):
developed a bit of a friendship at the time. Yeah,
I would say, yes, So tell us about the conversations
that you would have with her when it involved you
on these breaks. I remember the time where we were
in the car together going to Starbucks. We were on
a break between class and rehearsal, and we were talking
(04:26):
about media. Media is a Greek tragedy where a scorned woman, um,
she ends up to seek revenge on her ex husband, um,
she actually killed her two children. Since we were talking
about this Greek tragedy, she had asked me out of
the blue. We were talking about media, and she just went,
(04:48):
if you could get away with killing someone, would you
kill them? And I no. I was kind of like
a taken back. I thought it was an odd question
and I just answered and she said I would Wow,
(05:08):
that must have I mean, how did how did you
feel at that moment um At that moment, I think
this was like the beginning of of kind of me
going all right, there, there's I'm starting. I was starting
to see how others in my department wanted to keep
(05:29):
their distance from her. A lot of people would say
she was crazy, and I wanted to kind of develop
that opinion on my own before I passed any quick judgments,
and and that was where I was The wheels in
my head were starting to turn that maybe she wasn't
the most say, the best person to spend your time with.
(05:51):
So she basically said she would like it was just
so matter of fact that if she was guaranteed she
could get away with it. Yes, that's what she said.
From what I've heard from other former friends of hers,
that there's this sort of selfishness, this sense of the
(06:12):
attention always has to be on me, similar to almost
like a Casey Anthony. I definitely had looking back, I
definitely felt, especially at the time, by the time two
thousand eight rolled around, I believe like the Casey Anthony
case had a lot of attention. And I do remember
(06:35):
making that observation saying the same thing that she reminds
me of Casey Anthony, so that there was there was
a soullessness to her. I yes. And there was even
a professor at the theater department that I mean, and
this was like a few years before anything had happened,
(06:56):
and he had I can't remember the exact quote, but
he said something to that effect that when you look
into her eyes, there's just white there's no soul there
and that's stuck with me. And I also do remember
when we were in rehearsal one day. I don't remember
what we were talking about. I remember Rachel had said
(07:18):
something to the effect of I would rather be infamous
then not known at all. Well, that certainly falls in
line with what some of her friends at the time
who were at the press conference when she was released
from jail, that she was telling some of her friends
(07:42):
that she was so impressed that she was hearing the
news about her release and that they were referring to
her as an actress, and that was what really struck
her as right. Yeah, yeah, And I do remember uh
something to that effect, but I think in a different setting,
(08:03):
I remember there was and I didn't hear this directly
because by the time everything happened, by the time you know,
Dan had gotten arrested, I no longer spoke to her,
but I had mutual friends that spoke to her. I
had a mutual friend that spoke to a friend of hers,
and I know that File Ruble had a friend named
(08:26):
Marissa who was very close to Rachel at that time.
And when I think, if I'm remembering the story correctly,
Marissa actually went to the wedding. She didn't realize the
wedding had been called off, and so she called called
Rachel to see what was going on. And Rachel's reaction
to that was, well, google Dan and then call me back.
(08:50):
So I think, you know, until Marissa looks it up.
She sees what happened, so she called, you know, Rachel back. She's,
of course devastated, shocked. And I remember Rachel had said,
Zamerisa that all the newspapers and all the articles about
it that referred to her as an actress, and she
was like, can you believe it, They're calling me an actress?
Like she was really proud of that, of of that reference.
(09:13):
Instead of really wanting to cower in shame that you
involved and attached to this uh person that committed these murders, instead,
you cite the reference of you being an actress as
some kind of a glory moment. Yeah. And and at
that time, because I had already stopped speaking to her
(09:35):
because I thought she was very strange and quite frankly
capable of these types of things, I was not surprised
in the slightest right that she that this would be
her reaction. I wasn't just sort of disassociated from the
reality of what the subject matter was and why she
was in the press in the first place. Exactly exactly.
(09:59):
There's no remorse, there's no nothing, nothing. I know that
you were aware of a story about the the Gentleman
that she sort of outed as a as a gay man.
Would you share that. I think it was with Andy Pitts. Yes,
(10:20):
tell us that story, because it really, to me is
indicative of how how evil she can be, how cruel. Right. Um, Well,
at at that time, I believe she had some sort
of secret relationship with Kyle Ruble. And I say it
was secret because I if I'm remembering this correctly, I
(10:43):
believe Kyle had a at the time, what had a
was in a relationship with somebody else and him and
Rachel had something else going on on the side, and
there was a party at Andy's house and um, and
Andy Pitts was a mutual well friend, He was a
colleague at the school. He was a friend of mine. Yes,
(11:05):
And I believe at the time, like I think, at
the time, he was not um. I think he identified
as a straight man. I am not sure, but Rachel
had it in her head that he was gay, and
so there was a party at his house. He slept
(11:26):
with him, and at the end of it all, Um,
I believe she said something to him to the effect of, hey,
she let him know that she was also sleeping with Kyle,
and it made him feel really awkward. But she also
said to him, I thought you were gay, and I
thought this could help you come out. And didn't she
out him with all the other students. Didn't he leave
(11:48):
the college for a while? Um, I don't, I don't.
I know he left, but I think it was because
he was ready to transfer. I don't think he left
the house of that. And I remember she was. He
would tell people that she thought he was gay and
and this, and that she had slept with him, and
(12:09):
she kind of made like a joke out of it.
But I think most people, for everyone I knew, had
empathy for him, right, and Kyle had not. I met
with Kyle and he said something to the effect of
she she came back after sleeping with him and sort
of shamed him in front of everybody, in front of
the cast and and basically in essence was outing him.
(12:31):
Is the feeling he got, Well, I don't, I don't.
I believe she did, but I think she did it
in a in a way that was like she wanted
Kyle to be jealous, and she wanted Kyle to to
be violent with him in front of people. I think
that was more if I'm remembering correctly, I remember that
(12:53):
was kind of a motive as well, like she wanted
Kyle to go and like beat him up in front
of everybody, like how dare he bleek with his woman?
But so she wanted to out him the poor guy
and have him beat up at the same time, it's
like all about drama for her. It sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean that's yeah, I mean, that's that's really evil.
(13:16):
I'm sorry. I mean yeah that this is why I
felt that I needed to say something. And I know
that Audrey McVeigh is another friend of hers, or was
a friend for a while, and I know that you're
also friends with her. I spent I've spent quite a
bit of time with Audrey, and she's been so candid
(13:37):
and forthright as far as her experiences with Rachel. And
I know that you also know quite a bit about
how there was this propensity to steal. Yeah, and I
I never experienced that first hand. I heard about it
through Audrey and and Audrew said it was a regular
(14:02):
there was sort of a daily lifestyle choice that that
it was food and clothes and furniture. And the only
thing that upset Rachel was she couldn't figure out how
to steal her cigarettes. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. I
remember Audrey telling me about that. Yes, what fascinated me
(14:23):
was supposedly she stole her bridesmaid stresses from Burlington co Factory.
And I'm like, she's such a little thing. How on
earth did she hide hid those dresses? Yeah, well, I
remember so. Um about two weeks before um, before I
want to say that that it had to have been
(14:43):
May Um, Audrey had come over to my house because
she wanted to talk to me. I had warned Audrey
about Rachel. I had warned Audrey to stay away from Rachel,
but Audrey was going to be a bridesmaid in their wedding,
and she had called me out of the blue that
May and said, you know what, I dropped out of
(15:05):
Rachel's wedding and I'd like to come and talk to
you about it. And so she had actually come over
to my apartment at the time, and UM was telling
me about the ceiling and stuff like that, and I
don't remember exactly what it was they that Rachel stole
a Burlington co factory, but I know Audrey and her
went shopping and Rachel stole things and Audrey didn't know
(15:28):
what was going on, and Audrey didn't find out until
after they went back to Rachel's apartment, and Audrey was
upset because she felt like, well, if you had gotten
caught ceiling, you could have brought me down with you.
And I had no idea what you were doing. That's
a similar story that we had from an ex boyfriend,
the same thing, Like he gets in the car and
(15:50):
all of a sudden, she starts to laugh because he said,
you don't have to steal, I'll buy it for you.
And she did it anyway and without him even realizing it.
And when she got in the car, she was giggling
and showed him how she took a five dollar box
of perfume and replaced it with a fifty dollar box
of perfume or something along those lines. And it's just something,
(16:12):
but yeah, I could see that in a heartbeat. Yeah,
so Audrey, I know she did admit that there were
a lot of fun times that she had with Rachel
and Dan. They were sort of a threesome for for
a good period of time. But I guess once they
started getting pretty heavily involved in the drugs, that's that's
when she wanted out. Yeah, that's correct, that's what. And
(16:34):
and that same night that Audrey was telling about the
stealing and this, and that she had also told me
that they were using drugs and there was a lot
of it. And at that point, I think Audrey had
had just enough and no longer wanted to be associated
with them. And I know that she was. She pulled
out of the wedding, right it was it was weeks
(16:55):
before the murder. But yeah, so she had pulled out
of the wedding. Yes, that is correct. And that same
night we were talking and we were kind of talking
about how cold and calculating Rachel was, and I think
all all three of us, oh, I'm sorry, I had
another friend at the house. Um, all three of us
had said that, Um, we would not be surprised if
(17:19):
in a few years we saw Rachel on the news
for like murdering you know, her husband to get insurance money.
Like I think that was exactly the words we used,
and we wouldn't be surprised if we saw that. We
know what's going to happen. But the thing is, I mean,
two weeks later, I saw that Dan was on the
news for being arrested for a double homicide. Wow, you
(17:41):
guys had that premonition just a few weeks before the murders,
We sure did. I mean, did you guys just call
each other instantly? And that was a bit freaked you
all out? Yeah? Well, I I for yes, I was
um that I was at work and we had a
(18:02):
TV in the break room, and at that point I
had I had gone to high school with Julie, so
I knew, I knew she had died. But when we
had heard of her death, I think we kind of
were under the assumption that it was Sam that had
killed her. And um, so I was already like kind
(18:22):
of upset about that. But I was at work and
I was on my lunch break, and all of a
sudden it broke that Daniel Wosniac had been arrested for
the murders of Julie Kie Bluishi and Sam Air, And
I mean, I guessed I started crying because at that
time I wasn't on Facebook, and I had no idea
that Julie knew Rachel. I had no idea. Did you
(18:47):
think at that moment that Rachel was involved as well? Immediately?
I mean I looked at the TV and I saw
his face, his mug shot, and I went, this is Rachel,
because literally two weeks prior, we were just saying we
wouldn't be surprised if we saw her on the news. Now,
it didn't happen to be her. But I knew I said,
(19:07):
that did not happen. Just it was not just a coincidence.
There's a reason why we were just talking about this.
There was a reason why Audrey dropped out of the wedding.
I knew that she was capable of being involved in
something that horrific. So it made you think that while
(19:30):
you might not have known Dan very well at all,
that he just didn't kill alone. Yeah. I mean, I
wasn't talking to her at this point, so I have
no way of knowing for sure, But if I had
to guess, I would definitely say that she was involved
in the planning. I would definitely say, knowing that how
(19:51):
I had seen her try to manipulate other people in
the past, that it would not surprise me at all.
If she was a dry even factor in pushing him
to do this or collaborating with him to do this.
I don't know she actually physically did it. I don't
know if I could see that, but I could definitely
see her being behind the planning. Did you know Dan?
(20:16):
I did not know Dan. I think I met him once. Um,
I've never had a conversation with him. I UM. I
got creeped out by Rachel very very fast. So I
would say during the rehearsal process of Antigny was the
extent of our friendship. Once that ended, I kept my
distance because I thought she was very strange. Did you
(20:36):
ask Audrey what she thought of Dan? Because she was
close with both of them, so I probably did. And
I'm trying to think I remember, like, since I didn't
know Dan, I didn't really warn her about Dan. I
just kind of always pushed Rachel like you might want
to just stay away, um, but you know, she was
(20:56):
in the wedding, so I kind of just let it
be as far as Dan goes. I mean, I don't
really remember her saying much other than that they had
a pretty volatile relationship, but they would fight and have
these crazy epic arguments. And at that point when she
had come to me, that was like the first time
(21:16):
I had been hearing about Dan. And she told me
he was using drugs of Rachel And that's kind of
the extent that I knew about Dan. Now, you said
you went to school with Julie, you went to Osha,
I did, And did you know her very well? We
were more acquaintances. I wasn't a very close friend, but
(21:40):
I was definitely somebody that would say hello, um. But
I think my high school in general, we were very
tight enkit. It was a small class, so everybody kind
of knew everybody. So yeah, so I wasn't a good friend.
I didn't know her on a very deep intimate level,
but I knew her enough to be areas that what
(22:01):
had happened to her. So there was some sort of
a reunion as well as an event, a memorial event
on behalf of Julie. Well, I did go to Julie's
memorial at the high school reunion. We did have June
and her husband there and we as a class, the
(22:23):
class of two thousand five donated money to have a
plaque for Julie put on Symphony Hall we didn't go
Symphony Hall so like that. Where the reunion was was
right across the street from the actual high school. But
what we did do was we brought June up and
they presented her with I think two of the girls
(22:44):
in my class. They made some sort of quilt and
then we gave Julie a moment of silence. And that's
what we did for them as part of our reunion.
That's really sweet. I know that you can't find a
person that has a bad thing to say about Julie, No,
not at all. And the fact that she was murdered
(23:07):
helping a friend, it's really just so heartbreaking. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
So you listen to some of the phone calls, right
the jail I called him the jailhouse calls between Dan
and Rachel, And I know that you have certain opinions
(23:29):
about some of the things you heard her say, specifically
when she says we don't need money, we need to
be good people. Yeah, that that felt like first practice.
Excuse mean, what I'm about to say, bullshit ingenuous? Um,
(23:55):
I just I was blown away. So she knew she
was being record it and she wanted to present herself
in a certain way. Absolutely, Oh, Absolutely, I don't doubt
that at all. Do you think she hid behind her
faith like she used faith as protection when she was
getting into trouble. Absolutely. When I knew her, I felt
(24:20):
that she kind of had a negative view of Christianity.
I believe her family was was very Christian and they
were strict, and my impression was that she was looking
to rebel against that. So I remember when when she
had gotten arrested, and I think when they raised the
(24:42):
bail to get her out and she made a statement
and she said something to the effective, well, all I
have is my God. And I felt that that was
just an x all of a sudden, she's become holier
than thou and saying things like, oh, well, we don't
need money, we need to be good people. Yet Audrey
(25:04):
was just saying how she steals and does drugs. I mean,
that just doesn't sound like somebody close to their faith, right.
Just none of it was the Rachel you knew now now.
She was never that good of an actress. Did Kyle
share with you his feelings about his ex girlfriend? Um? Yeah,
(25:26):
I want to say my friend Megan and I were
kind of close to him when he was going out
with Rachel, and we would continuously tell him to break
up with her, and he would complain about her, but
then when it came time to actually like stand up
for himself, he wouldn't do it. Um. I do remember
there was a time where he did break up with her,
(25:48):
and then she she sort of camped out in her
car and his driveway, and he was kind of he
was like freaked out. He was afraid to leave. Sounds
he got himself a stalker. Yeah, yeah, I mean she did.
When they were together, she did kind of some odd things.
I mean I remember that, Like she she would like
(26:12):
hide his car keys and then pretend to be asleep
so we couldn't get to work physically. Um, she would
pretend to be sick and tell him that he needs
to take care of her. I kind of remember those
things happening, and I think eventually he had gotten he
got fired, He got fired from Disney because of all
of those absences and late. He was late a lot
(26:33):
too because of her. He made a lot because of her. Yeah, yeah,
she she was. She was something special. We would warn him,
but and he knew what we were saying was true.
But I think he I think probably at the time
you know, being young, he just even afraid to break
up with her, and like I said, when he did,
(26:53):
she camped out in her car in front of his house.
I feel that, I mean, just given from what I've
heard the detectives say was that they know she was
more involved than they can prove. And I do find
it sad that they can't prove more just because I
(27:13):
personally feel she is dangerous and so I would hope
that they're able to prove and keep her away from society.
But if they can't, then at least stands where he
needs to be. Given that you were a theater major
at one point in your life, what would you say
(27:34):
is the the most famous role that you could see
her playing or or embodying? Rachel Buffett? Oh goodness, if
they ever do a movie on Casey Anthony great wouldn't
even have to act. And as far as anything more classic,
(27:55):
I would say, Hi, Lady Macbeth, well it seems like
Rachel would fit that part. I just want to say
how grateful we are, kristin hearing from you today and
learning so much more about this case through your stories. No,
I just I want to thank you for kind of
(28:16):
telling the story of the of our of our victims,
and I hope that we give them a voice. Well
that's the intention, and I appreciate you participating because all
of you, all everybody that is participating in this podcast
has provided some element, some nugget piece of truth that
(28:42):
helps fill out the whole picture for our victims family.
So I thank you so much for coming on Sleuth.
Thank you Linda. On our next stallment of Sleuth, we
hear from Daniel fulk Earn, an ordained pastor and longtime
(29:03):
advisor Daniel Wazniak. Daniel worked for the pastor for many
years in his appraisal business, all during the time that
Daniel also dated the pastor's daughter, Emily. Pastor Hulkyard has
many fond memories of Daniel, who he still to this
day refers to as his son. He recounts to Sleuth, however,
(29:24):
the one lasting painful memory he witnessed when Daniel left
the pastor's home, leaving his old life behind and driving
off into the darkness with his future fiance Rachel Buffett
by his side. If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth,
share it with a friend and be sure to leave
(29:45):
a rating or review. Follow sleuth on I Heart Radio,
or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so that you
never miss an episode.
Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language.
Out of the blue, we were talking about mydea and
she just went, if you could get away with killing someone,
would you kill them? And I know, I was kind
of like a taken back. I thought it was an
odd question and I just answered no, and she said,
(00:24):
I would welcome to sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. Next up,
we welcome Christen Burgo Moscow now Kristen Crane, who knew
(00:46):
Rachel Buffett during their time together as students attending Long
Beach Community College's theater department. Kristen's stories about her encounters
with Rachel our foreboding tales of a future that Kristen
early predicted for Rachel just two weeks before the murders.
Hey Kristen, Hi, how are you So? You were a
(01:11):
witness at Daniel wazni next trial and you shared with
the court a lot of your observations and experiences with her,
which pretty much happened during that time you were at
the Long Beach Community College? Is that correct? Correct? So
(01:31):
why don't you give us a sense of when you
first met her, what was the first encounter you had?
And and uh, take us back to that time. Sure,
um at the college campus, I was part of the
theater program, and it was a tight knit community to
be in. Most of us were friends. But I did
(01:53):
feel that regarding Rachel there was kind of a divide.
There were some people that I thought she was really
and then there were some people that thought she was
very nice. And I'm the type of person that likes
to you know, I like to come to conclusions on
my own, so I gave everyone a fair chance. I
won't let somebody else's opinion as somebody else kind of
(02:15):
sway me. So when I first met Rachel, I thought
she was nice. Different, but I did think she was nice.
So my initial impression was that she was nice. And
when I say she was different, it was kind of
obvious that she was a little bit more sheltered, I
want to say, than most people at that age, because
(02:36):
I think abound the time I was start either nineteen
or I think it was the fall of two thousand
and six. Said yeah, so then I would have been
I would have been nineteen. Yeah, so for me and
my experience of other nineteen year old and then I
did find out that she had been homeschooled, I attributed
it to that, like, maybe she's just a little socially
awkward because she had been homeschooled. Not to attack anybody
(02:58):
that's been home school When you're that, you just don't
have you don't have the experiences of being amongst your peers.
You just don't have that social aspect of your growing education,
right right? Did you get close with her because you
were both in the theater department there, So how I
(03:19):
got to know her better was and I we were
both cast in a show together. Um, and that was
Anti Guny. We were in Antigny together. Yeah, we were
casting a show together. And so I lived in Orange County,
so it was a far drive for me. So I
would I would have classes in the morning and afternoon
and then there would be like a two hour gap
(03:41):
where between my classes and rehearsals, so I'd kind of
just be stuck on the campus and a lot of
times Rachel had the same gap as I did. So
since we were in the show together, I was just
kind of like, hey, you want to hang out and
keep each other company between rehearsals and class So that's
kind of how I got to know her better. You
(04:04):
developed a bit of a friendship at the time. Yeah,
I would say, yes, So tell us about the conversations
that you would have with her when it involved you
on these breaks. I remember the time where we were
in the car together going to Starbucks. We were on
a break between class and rehearsal, and we were talking
(04:26):
about media. Media is a Greek tragedy where a scorned woman, um,
she ends up to seek revenge on her ex husband, um,
she actually killed her two children. Since we were talking
about this Greek tragedy, she had asked me out of
the blue. We were talking about media, and she just went,
(04:48):
if you could get away with killing someone, would you
kill them? And I no. I was kind of like
a taken back. I thought it was an odd question
and I just answered and she said I would Wow,
(05:08):
that must have I mean, how did how did you
feel at that moment um At that moment, I think
this was like the beginning of of kind of me
going all right, there, there's I'm starting. I was starting
to see how others in my department wanted to keep
(05:29):
their distance from her. A lot of people would say
she was crazy, and I wanted to kind of develop
that opinion on my own before I passed any quick judgments,
and and that was where I was The wheels in
my head were starting to turn that maybe she wasn't
the most say, the best person to spend your time with.
(05:51):
So she basically said she would like it was just
so matter of fact that if she was guaranteed she
could get away with it. Yes, that's what she said.
From what I've heard from other former friends of hers,
that there's this sort of selfishness, this sense of the
(06:12):
attention always has to be on me, similar to almost
like a Casey Anthony. I definitely had looking back, I
definitely felt, especially at the time, by the time two
thousand eight rolled around, I believe like the Casey Anthony
case had a lot of attention. And I do remember
(06:35):
making that observation saying the same thing that she reminds
me of Casey Anthony, so that there was there was
a soullessness to her. I yes. And there was even
a professor at the theater department that I mean, and
this was like a few years before anything had happened,
(06:56):
and he had I can't remember the exact quote, but
he said something to that effect that when you look
into her eyes, there's just white there's no soul there
and that's stuck with me. And I also do remember
when we were in rehearsal one day. I don't remember
what we were talking about. I remember Rachel had said
(07:18):
something to the effect of I would rather be infamous
then not known at all. Well, that certainly falls in
line with what some of her friends at the time
who were at the press conference when she was released
from jail, that she was telling some of her friends
(07:42):
that she was so impressed that she was hearing the
news about her release and that they were referring to
her as an actress, and that was what really struck
her as right. Yeah, yeah, And I do remember uh
something to that effect, but I think in a different setting,
(08:03):
I remember there was and I didn't hear this directly
because by the time everything happened, by the time you know,
Dan had gotten arrested, I no longer spoke to her,
but I had mutual friends that spoke to her. I
had a mutual friend that spoke to a friend of hers,
and I know that File Ruble had a friend named
(08:26):
Marissa who was very close to Rachel at that time.
And when I think, if I'm remembering the story correctly,
Marissa actually went to the wedding. She didn't realize the
wedding had been called off, and so she called called
Rachel to see what was going on. And Rachel's reaction
to that was, well, google Dan and then call me back.
(08:50):
So I think, you know, until Marissa looks it up.
She sees what happened, so she called, you know, Rachel back. She's,
of course devastated, shocked. And I remember Rachel had said,
Zamerisa that all the newspapers and all the articles about
it that referred to her as an actress, and she
was like, can you believe it, They're calling me an actress?
Like she was really proud of that, of of that reference.
(09:13):
Instead of really wanting to cower in shame that you
involved and attached to this uh person that committed these murders, instead,
you cite the reference of you being an actress as
some kind of a glory moment. Yeah. And and at
that time, because I had already stopped speaking to her
(09:35):
because I thought she was very strange and quite frankly
capable of these types of things, I was not surprised
in the slightest right that she that this would be
her reaction. I wasn't just sort of disassociated from the
reality of what the subject matter was and why she
was in the press in the first place. Exactly exactly.
(09:59):
There's no remorse, there's no nothing, nothing. I know that
you were aware of a story about the the Gentleman
that she sort of outed as a as a gay man.
Would you share that. I think it was with Andy Pitts. Yes,
(10:20):
tell us that story, because it really, to me is
indicative of how how evil she can be, how cruel. Right. Um, Well,
at at that time, I believe she had some sort
of secret relationship with Kyle Ruble. And I say it
was secret because I if I'm remembering this correctly, I
(10:43):
believe Kyle had a at the time, what had a
was in a relationship with somebody else and him and
Rachel had something else going on on the side, and
there was a party at Andy's house and um, and
Andy Pitts was a mutual well friend, He was a
colleague at the school. He was a friend of mine. Yes,
(11:05):
And I believe at the time, like I think, at
the time, he was not um. I think he identified
as a straight man. I am not sure, but Rachel
had it in her head that he was gay, and
so there was a party at his house. He slept
(11:26):
with him, and at the end of it all, Um,
I believe she said something to him to the effect of, hey,
she let him know that she was also sleeping with Kyle,
and it made him feel really awkward. But she also
said to him, I thought you were gay, and I
thought this could help you come out. And didn't she
out him with all the other students. Didn't he leave
(11:48):
the college for a while? Um, I don't, I don't.
I know he left, but I think it was because
he was ready to transfer. I don't think he left
the house of that. And I remember she was. He
would tell people that she thought he was gay and
and this, and that she had slept with him, and
(12:09):
she kind of made like a joke out of it.
But I think most people, for everyone I knew, had
empathy for him, right, and Kyle had not. I met
with Kyle and he said something to the effect of
she she came back after sleeping with him and sort
of shamed him in front of everybody, in front of
the cast and and basically in essence was outing him.
(12:31):
Is the feeling he got, Well, I don't, I don't.
I believe she did, but I think she did it
in a in a way that was like she wanted
Kyle to be jealous, and she wanted Kyle to to
be violent with him in front of people. I think
that was more if I'm remembering correctly, I remember that
(12:53):
was kind of a motive as well, like she wanted
Kyle to go and like beat him up in front
of everybody, like how dare he bleek with his woman?
But so she wanted to out him the poor guy
and have him beat up at the same time, it's
like all about drama for her. It sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean that's yeah, I mean, that's that's really evil.
(13:16):
I'm sorry. I mean yeah that this is why I
felt that I needed to say something. And I know
that Audrey McVeigh is another friend of hers, or was
a friend for a while, and I know that you're
also friends with her. I spent I've spent quite a
bit of time with Audrey, and she's been so candid
(13:37):
and forthright as far as her experiences with Rachel. And
I know that you also know quite a bit about
how there was this propensity to steal. Yeah, and I
I never experienced that first hand. I heard about it
through Audrey and and Audrew said it was a regular
(14:02):
there was sort of a daily lifestyle choice that that
it was food and clothes and furniture. And the only
thing that upset Rachel was she couldn't figure out how
to steal her cigarettes. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. I
remember Audrey telling me about that. Yes, what fascinated me
(14:23):
was supposedly she stole her bridesmaid stresses from Burlington co Factory.
And I'm like, she's such a little thing. How on
earth did she hide hid those dresses? Yeah, well, I
remember so. Um about two weeks before um, before I
want to say that that it had to have been
(14:43):
May Um, Audrey had come over to my house because
she wanted to talk to me. I had warned Audrey
about Rachel. I had warned Audrey to stay away from Rachel,
but Audrey was going to be a bridesmaid in their wedding,
and she had called me out of the blue that
May and said, you know what, I dropped out of
(15:05):
Rachel's wedding and I'd like to come and talk to
you about it. And so she had actually come over
to my apartment at the time, and UM was telling
me about the ceiling and stuff like that, and I
don't remember exactly what it was they that Rachel stole
a Burlington co factory, but I know Audrey and her
went shopping and Rachel stole things and Audrey didn't know
(15:28):
what was going on, and Audrey didn't find out until
after they went back to Rachel's apartment, and Audrey was
upset because she felt like, well, if you had gotten
caught ceiling, you could have brought me down with you.
And I had no idea what you were doing. That's
a similar story that we had from an ex boyfriend,
the same thing, Like he gets in the car and
(15:50):
all of a sudden, she starts to laugh because he said,
you don't have to steal, I'll buy it for you.
And she did it anyway and without him even realizing it.
And when she got in the car, she was giggling
and showed him how she took a five dollar box
of perfume and replaced it with a fifty dollar box
of perfume or something along those lines. And it's just something,
(16:12):
but yeah, I could see that in a heartbeat. Yeah,
so Audrey, I know she did admit that there were
a lot of fun times that she had with Rachel
and Dan. They were sort of a threesome for for
a good period of time. But I guess once they
started getting pretty heavily involved in the drugs, that's that's
when she wanted out. Yeah, that's correct, that's what. And
(16:34):
and that same night that Audrey was telling about the
stealing and this, and that she had also told me
that they were using drugs and there was a lot
of it. And at that point, I think Audrey had
had just enough and no longer wanted to be associated
with them. And I know that she was. She pulled
out of the wedding, right it was it was weeks
(16:55):
before the murder. But yeah, so she had pulled out
of the wedding. Yes, that is correct. And that same
night we were talking and we were kind of talking
about how cold and calculating Rachel was, and I think
all all three of us, oh, I'm sorry, I had
another friend at the house. Um, all three of us
had said that, Um, we would not be surprised if
(17:19):
in a few years we saw Rachel on the news
for like murdering you know, her husband to get insurance money.
Like I think that was exactly the words we used,
and we wouldn't be surprised if we saw that. We
know what's going to happen. But the thing is, I mean,
two weeks later, I saw that Dan was on the
news for being arrested for a double homicide. Wow, you
(17:41):
guys had that premonition just a few weeks before the murders,
We sure did. I mean, did you guys just call
each other instantly? And that was a bit freaked you
all out? Yeah? Well, I I for yes, I was
um that I was at work and we had a
(18:02):
TV in the break room, and at that point I
had I had gone to high school with Julie, so
I knew, I knew she had died. But when we
had heard of her death, I think we kind of
were under the assumption that it was Sam that had
killed her. And um, so I was already like kind
(18:22):
of upset about that. But I was at work and
I was on my lunch break, and all of a
sudden it broke that Daniel Wosniac had been arrested for
the murders of Julie Kie Bluishi and Sam Air, And
I mean, I guessed I started crying because at that
time I wasn't on Facebook, and I had no idea
that Julie knew Rachel. I had no idea. Did you
(18:47):
think at that moment that Rachel was involved as well? Immediately?
I mean I looked at the TV and I saw
his face, his mug shot, and I went, this is Rachel,
because literally two weeks prior, we were just saying we
wouldn't be surprised if we saw her on the news. Now,
it didn't happen to be her. But I knew I said,
(19:07):
that did not happen. Just it was not just a coincidence.
There's a reason why we were just talking about this.
There was a reason why Audrey dropped out of the wedding.
I knew that she was capable of being involved in
something that horrific. So it made you think that while
(19:30):
you might not have known Dan very well at all,
that he just didn't kill alone. Yeah. I mean, I
wasn't talking to her at this point, so I have
no way of knowing for sure, But if I had
to guess, I would definitely say that she was involved
in the planning. I would definitely say, knowing that how
(19:51):
I had seen her try to manipulate other people in
the past, that it would not surprise me at all.
If she was a dry even factor in pushing him
to do this or collaborating with him to do this.
I don't know she actually physically did it. I don't
know if I could see that, but I could definitely
see her being behind the planning. Did you know Dan?
(20:16):
I did not know Dan. I think I met him once. Um,
I've never had a conversation with him. I UM. I
got creeped out by Rachel very very fast. So I
would say during the rehearsal process of Antigny was the
extent of our friendship. Once that ended, I kept my
distance because I thought she was very strange. Did you
(20:36):
ask Audrey what she thought of Dan? Because she was
close with both of them, so I probably did. And
I'm trying to think I remember, like, since I didn't
know Dan, I didn't really warn her about Dan. I
just kind of always pushed Rachel like you might want
to just stay away, um, but you know, she was
(20:56):
in the wedding, so I kind of just let it
be as far as Dan goes. I mean, I don't
really remember her saying much other than that they had
a pretty volatile relationship, but they would fight and have
these crazy epic arguments. And at that point when she
had come to me, that was like the first time
(21:16):
I had been hearing about Dan. And she told me
he was using drugs of Rachel And that's kind of
the extent that I knew about Dan. Now, you said
you went to school with Julie, you went to Osha,
I did, And did you know her very well? We
were more acquaintances. I wasn't a very close friend, but
(21:40):
I was definitely somebody that would say hello, um. But
I think my high school in general, we were very
tight enkit. It was a small class, so everybody kind
of knew everybody. So yeah, so I wasn't a good friend.
I didn't know her on a very deep intimate level,
but I knew her enough to be areas that what
(22:01):
had happened to her. So there was some sort of
a reunion as well as an event, a memorial event
on behalf of Julie. Well, I did go to Julie's
memorial at the high school reunion. We did have June
and her husband there and we as a class, the
(22:23):
class of two thousand five donated money to have a
plaque for Julie put on Symphony Hall we didn't go
Symphony Hall so like that. Where the reunion was was
right across the street from the actual high school. But
what we did do was we brought June up and
they presented her with I think two of the girls
(22:44):
in my class. They made some sort of quilt and
then we gave Julie a moment of silence. And that's
what we did for them as part of our reunion.
That's really sweet. I know that you can't find a
person that has a bad thing to say about Julie, No,
not at all. And the fact that she was murdered
(23:07):
helping a friend, it's really just so heartbreaking. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
So you listen to some of the phone calls, right
the jail I called him the jailhouse calls between Dan
and Rachel, And I know that you have certain opinions
(23:29):
about some of the things you heard her say, specifically
when she says we don't need money, we need to
be good people. Yeah, that that felt like first practice.
Excuse mean, what I'm about to say, bullshit ingenuous? Um,
(23:55):
I just I was blown away. So she knew she
was being record it and she wanted to present herself
in a certain way. Absolutely, Oh, Absolutely, I don't doubt
that at all. Do you think she hid behind her
faith like she used faith as protection when she was
getting into trouble. Absolutely. When I knew her, I felt
(24:20):
that she kind of had a negative view of Christianity.
I believe her family was was very Christian and they
were strict, and my impression was that she was looking
to rebel against that. So I remember when when she
had gotten arrested, and I think when they raised the
(24:42):
bail to get her out and she made a statement
and she said something to the effective, well, all I
have is my God. And I felt that that was
just an x all of a sudden, she's become holier
than thou and saying things like, oh, well, we don't
need money, we need to be good people. Yet Audrey
(25:04):
was just saying how she steals and does drugs. I mean,
that just doesn't sound like somebody close to their faith, right.
Just none of it was the Rachel you knew now now.
She was never that good of an actress. Did Kyle
share with you his feelings about his ex girlfriend? Um? Yeah,
(25:26):
I want to say my friend Megan and I were
kind of close to him when he was going out
with Rachel, and we would continuously tell him to break
up with her, and he would complain about her, but
then when it came time to actually like stand up
for himself, he wouldn't do it. Um. I do remember
there was a time where he did break up with her,
(25:48):
and then she she sort of camped out in her
car and his driveway, and he was kind of he
was like freaked out. He was afraid to leave. Sounds
he got himself a stalker. Yeah, yeah, I mean she did.
When they were together, she did kind of some odd things.
I mean I remember that, Like she she would like
(26:12):
hide his car keys and then pretend to be asleep
so we couldn't get to work physically. Um, she would
pretend to be sick and tell him that he needs
to take care of her. I kind of remember those
things happening, and I think eventually he had gotten he
got fired, He got fired from Disney because of all
of those absences and late. He was late a lot
(26:33):
too because of her. He made a lot because of her. Yeah, yeah,
she she was. She was something special. We would warn him,
but and he knew what we were saying was true.
But I think he I think probably at the time
you know, being young, he just even afraid to break
up with her, and like I said, when he did,
(26:53):
she camped out in her car in front of his house.
I feel that, I mean, just given from what I've
heard the detectives say was that they know she was
more involved than they can prove. And I do find
it sad that they can't prove more just because I
(27:13):
personally feel she is dangerous and so I would hope
that they're able to prove and keep her away from society.
But if they can't, then at least stands where he
needs to be. Given that you were a theater major
at one point in your life, what would you say
(27:34):
is the the most famous role that you could see
her playing or or embodying? Rachel Buffett? Oh goodness, if
they ever do a movie on Casey Anthony great wouldn't
even have to act. And as far as anything more classic,
(27:55):
I would say, Hi, Lady Macbeth, well it seems like
Rachel would fit that part. I just want to say
how grateful we are, kristin hearing from you today and
learning so much more about this case through your stories. No,
I just I want to thank you for kind of
(28:16):
telling the story of the of our of our victims,
and I hope that we give them a voice. Well
that's the intention, and I appreciate you participating because all
of you, all everybody that is participating in this podcast
has provided some element, some nugget piece of truth that
(28:42):
helps fill out the whole picture for our victims family.
So I thank you so much for coming on Sleuth.
Thank you Linda. On our next stallment of Sleuth, we
hear from Daniel fulk Earn, an ordained pastor and longtime
(29:03):
advisor Daniel Wazniak. Daniel worked for the pastor for many
years in his appraisal business, all during the time that
Daniel also dated the pastor's daughter, Emily. Pastor Hulkyard has
many fond memories of Daniel, who he still to this
day refers to as his son. He recounts to Sleuth, however,
(29:24):
the one lasting painful memory he witnessed when Daniel left
the pastor's home, leaving his old life behind and driving
off into the darkness with his future fiance Rachel Buffett
by his side. If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth,
share it with a friend and be sure to leave
(29:45):
a rating or review. Follow sleuth on I Heart Radio,
or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so that you
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