16. Meet the couple Dan Wozniak calls Mama and Big Guy, Kristen and John Spath, parents to the love of Dan's life, a girl named Brittany.

16. Throughout this podcast, I have attempted to share with our listeners various interviews with people who knew the ex-Disney princess Rachel Buffett. You've heard conversations with people that knew Rachel prior to her meeting Dan, during her time with Dan as his fiancee and the time subsequent to Dan Wozniak’s arrest and incarceration. But how much do we know about Dan prior to his courtship with Rachel Buffett? Meet Kristen and John Spath, who’s daughter Brittany dated Dan prior to Rachel Buffet. Most of the people I have spoken to told me, they believe Brittany was the love of Dan’s life. Kristen and John were like family to Dan referring to Kristen as Mama and John as the big guy. They have family memories to share that included Dan. With a surprise couple of guests that the Spaths could have never anticipated arriving at their front door the week of the murders. All these stories and more you won't hear anywhere else but here on Sleuth. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language.
I think it's appalling that the woman that was convicted
of accessary after the fact that came to our house
at the time of the murders and gave us information
we went to the police. Nobody has come to us

(00:24):
and wanted to ask us and question us further. She
told us incriminating facts, and no one has requestioned us.

(00:45):
Welcome to Sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. Throughout this podcast, I
have attempted to share with our listeners various interviews with
people who knew the ex Disney princess Rachel Buffett prior
to her meeting Dan, during her time with Dan as
his fiancee, and her time subsequent to Dan Wozniak's arrest

(01:06):
and incarceration. But how much do we really know about
Dan prior to his courtship with Rachel Buffett? For that,
I have met several times over the last year's with
Kristen and John Spath, whose daughter Brittany dated Dan prior
to Rachel Buffett. Most of the people I've spoken to
have told me they believe Brittany was the love of

(01:28):
Dan's life. Kristen and John were like family to Dan,
as he referred to Kristen as Mama and John as
the big guy. They have stories you'll want to hear,
and you won't hear anywhere else but on Sleuth. So
today on Sleuth, I want to welcome Kristen and John

(01:48):
Spath to the program. Thank you first of all for
your time and coming here. Welcome, Welcome, And I think
more than any other guests I've had on the show,
I truly believe that both of you probably have the
best insights into the Dan Wozniac prior to his relationship

(02:10):
with Rachel Buffett. So I wanted you to share with
our listeners because I know you really had an intimate
knowledge of this person as a younger man. I mean,
from what I understand, he not only dated your daughter,
but there was talk of marriage at one point, and
you even thought that he could very well become your

(02:31):
son in law. He had a key to your home,
he went on vacations with you. I mean, this was
a gentleman you really thought you knew quite well. Yeah,
really really did. He was part of our family, part
of the family. So more than anything, I mean I
know that you have said to me that when he

(02:54):
was part of your family. You never saw any signs
of a violent person or someone that was apabul of
what he ultimately did in this case. But since then,
since all that's happened that we know, the murders, the trial,
the conviction, him now on death row in San Quentin.

(03:14):
You said, you feel like you can start putting pieces
of the puzzle together, share with our listeners some of
some of the insights, and and let's also hear about
your experiences with him prior to Rachel and maybe we
should start there. How you met Daniel Wazniak. Actually, I
think you met him before I did, because he was

(03:36):
our daughter had joined the cast of our children's theater,
Orange County Children's Theater and it was music man. So
we met him there. And your daughter had attended Ocean
removed from Massachusetts from Boston. Yes, so she could attend
the high school performing arts. Yes, that was a dream
of hers. When we met him, he instantly we realize

(04:00):
is that this was a good person. I mean that
was our first impression. He was different than the average kid.
He was he was happy, go lucky, he was polite
and consider it, and it wasn't the normal teenager The
other thing too, is I think that what happened with

(04:21):
the with that theater community was they would have what
they called their alumni, would be persons such as Dan
who had graduated from high school, and they would have
them come back in alumni roles as mentors. So they
were using this was the Orange County Children's which actually
you read at one point, right, I was a president,

(04:44):
but not at the time then was there. It was
this was afterwards that I became president. So he was
well respected in that theater community that they were asking
him to come back in a mentoring role. The children
loved him, the parents loved him. So it wasn't just
your personal opinion of him, an impression of him. You're

(05:07):
saying that it was pretty much widespread throughout the theater community.
Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely absolutely. And then at some point
Dan actually ended up dating your daughter. Yes, it was
during the production while they were in rehearsals. And an

(05:28):
interesting is when they started dating, he had asked her
to keep it hush hush because he didn't want it
to interfere with the production because he had a love
interest in the actual production, in the cast, in the
cast and this was music man. Yes, do you know
the year? Do you remember the year? It was four

(05:53):
thousand and five, but you know what it was. It's
it's rehearsal started in October two thousand and four and
the production place a thousand and five. Okay, so, I
mean we were new to the theater world at the time,
but it kind of made sense to us. Were like, okay,
well all right, I get it, so we'll just keep

(06:13):
it quiet. And at the time Brittany wasn't thrilled with that,
but again she's like, Okay, this is what he asked.
Let's keep it quiet because we don't he doesn't want
us to ruffle feathers. Well, you said he was in
an advisory position, so maybe he felt or maybe you
could appreciate it exactly, it might seem inappropriate, exactly. That's
exactly his words to us us was he didn't want

(06:37):
it to become a distraction to the show. And that mate,
so we all honored it and went along. And were
you the music director not for this one? Now, now,
we would just have been in many instance, yes, County yes,
and other theaters, yeah, but this one we were parents volunteers,
and so we were around and what was nice as

(07:00):
we got to know the kids, we got to see
how he interacted with other kids, and at that point
we were okay with him dating our daughter. We thought
that he was just a few years older. Later, many
years later, a few years later, we found out how

(07:20):
how big of a difference, How big of a difference
was it. I think there was like four and a
half years difference. And because Brittany was still not seventy.
She was sixteen when she started dating Dan, and he
was not that he was not exactly the age that
we thought he was. We thought he was eighteen. So
but you also said to me, I believe at one

(07:42):
point that all the mothers were a bit envious because
they all wanted Dan to be dating their daughter. Yeah,
which is pretty People would come up and say, oh, wow,
you out, You're lucky your daughter's dating him. And and
she also, I think of him that same sense of pride,
because from what I understand, when she came into audition

(08:04):
for the first time, and Brittany, your your daughter has
an incredible voice, right, I mean, it's a larger than
life voice. And she was a tiny little thing and
with this booming, beautiful voice, and from what I understand,
he was pretty proud because he was sort of in
the audience while she was auditioning, right, Yes, because he
came up to me during the auditions and said, Wow,

(08:26):
your daughter is amazing. So that was the initial attraction probably,
I think so. Yeah, it was something he admired. And
I can also tell you that, as you know, I've
interviewed over three people to date on this case, and
so many people have said to me that they believe
that Brittany was the love of his life. And and

(08:49):
you you almost wonder if there was a different path
he took. But she found out that he was cheating, right,
I mean, that's what ended it. Yeah, Well, it was
even more other than that. It was just she the
lies that he would tell, it was so consistent, and
it was just so it became like part of their
everyday life that she just couldn't deal with that anymore.

(09:12):
She didn't know what the truth was. If he had
a hamburger, he would literally lie and say it had
a hot dog for no reason. That's what his friends
in high school said. That the lies in the beginning
were so ridiculous and unnecessary, right, well, completely unnecessary. I
think I've I've said that Kristen, and I don't think
I've ever made this remark to you, but if I
was going to write a book about Dan, I would

(09:34):
title at the Master of the Seat. M hm. So
you you often caught him in lies as well the
we caught him in lies and then, um, you know,
it's one of those stories like when you first hear
on the news that you know that the guy next
door became a murderer. They they interviewed the neighbors and

(09:57):
everybody said, oh, I couldn't believe it. He was such
a great guy and everything else. We had that initial
reaction initial let me stress that initial reaction ourselves was
we couldn't believe it. However, when we started putting pieces together,
we started We're going, oh, we could see that was
a lie. We can see that was the seat, you know.

(10:19):
And I had developed a saying about Dan he couldn't
tell the truth. If it worked better. I wonder if
you think that habit, or that tendency he had to lie,
developed from the relationship he had with his mother. I

(10:40):
have often thought that, and I think that she she
put him on this pedestal and Danny was everything to her,
and I think that he felt this is my opinion,
that he felt he could never achieve, that he would

(11:01):
never be exactly what she wanted him to be. So
I think he had pressure. It was too high. Yes,
I think that was a constant pressure. And he loved
his dad, loved his dad. I don't think he feeled
that same warmth with his mother, and I think there
was almost like a fear. Yeah. Well, the lyne seemed

(11:26):
to be predicated on the fact that there was no
girl that was good enough in Maryanne was absolutely absolutely
he had to lie to to see these girls too,
even Brittany, who she had a relationship with. You guys, right,
I mean you did share some some time together, as
well as go on a vacation together. Let's talk about

(11:46):
that experience because it was quite telling it speaking. Yes, yes,
it was her sophomore year, and it was Dan's idea
that we all take a whose vacation together and he
wanted to surprise britt that he was coming. We just

(12:09):
told Brittany that we were taking around a cruise and
she was all sad because she was gonna miss vacation
week and not be with Dan because we were going
on a family vacation. When in fact, Dan and his
parents were coming. So his parents and I and John,
we're all in cahoots together. We were going to surprise
her on board that day and Dan and then we're

(12:31):
going to pop out. And we did, and we had
we had a great vacation time. It was a cruise.
It was a cruise. How long was it for? About
five days? I think about five days? And where did
you go? Well, it's what they call a repositioning cruise.
They were they were taking the ship from San Diego
to Uma Victoria, Canada to start the summer season accent Vancouver,

(12:58):
of starting the summer sea and of taking people to
Alaska on the ship. So we went on what was
called a repositioning cruise from San Diego to Vancouver. And
who arranged the details? I think Dan actually North. Well,
we know Marianne. Marianne arranged because I know that marian
Waznick was a big cruiser because she used to take

(13:20):
her family and the boys and their friends as well,
So it sounds like she perhaps was the planner in
this case. Yeah, they had a travel agent they worked
with arranged all their cruises. And if I recall correctly, Um,
she just said, well, let my travel agent arrange for
all of us, and that's what we did. But that's

(13:42):
how comfortable she was with both of you at the time, right,
and when you're sharing a holiday together at the time,
I got as intimate as it gets. Yeah, yep. And
the cruise went wonderful. We had lots of fun until
and then we we we ended up the cruise had ended.

(14:02):
We were in Vancouver, Vancouver and spending the night, we
had tickets to go see Tony and Maria's wedding. Yeah,
we went all together to that and every it seemed
like everybody had a great time. And that's a total
group thing. It was before that that something had switched,

(14:26):
before that you had to see her or something right. Well,
what happened is one of the I think it's like
the second of the last day of the cruise. Her
and I had gone to tea, just her and I
and we were talking about things, past times of mothers
and special events in our child's life. And I happened
to mention Brittany sweet sixteen that we had taken it

(14:48):
to New York City and I said that was last
year or something like that was just in conversation. So
you put an age to her, yes, a number. Never
did I know that Dan had. It was a double lie.
Dan had lied to us and made himself younger to us,
and he had lied to his parents and made Brittany older.
So it was a double eye that I had. No

(15:09):
we had no clue. So that day it revealed to
Marianne Rosniac that Brittany was much younger than she thought.
So the next day, so she's starting to think, you know,
if I may interrupt for a moment, we didn't know.
All of a sudden, Mary Anne stopped talking to us

(15:30):
for the rest of the cruise. But we but we
didn't know why that what we thought it was because
Darrell had gotten sick and she was upset because it
was that much of a drastics shift. We were playing
shuffle board one day and the next day not speaking
to us. This is the day that we were getting off.
So she thought you were She thought you knew, yes,

(15:52):
And if you know, let me fast forward quite a bit. Okay,
after after Dan had been arrested and um the trial
didn't know he was No, he was still in r
he was there for five years. We we ran into

(16:13):
Dan's mother and father at a show one of a
theater show, and she had spoken tests in years. She
hadn't no, no, and she she broke down. She apologized
when she came over to you, and yes, she says,
I am so sorry. She says, I didn't know, and
that's when she explained what she knew about the lie

(16:36):
and deceit from Dan. We had no idea. You know,
how simple would it have been. I'm sorry, but how
simple would have been to say, as an adult to
two other adults, I didn't know this? And this disturbs me.
This bothers me. The age difference. And I was told
one thing by my son, in other words, to go
into that disconnected, detached, cold status without giving you any indications.

(17:00):
So odd she and she used your exact words. She says,
I was worried about statutory rape being involved in this,
and that's why I wanted the whole thing ended and
over with. And then what she said, I'd explain herself
right behavior. What she said after that, I'll never forget.
And she had said she had turned to us, and

(17:21):
she had said, if I only had known what he
ended up with, that was such a small thing, meaning
referring to Brittany and his age yes, she says, wow.
She because if I had only known, she goes what
I would have traded to have. That is a problem.
Let's see. That goes back to my observation of Dan's

(17:47):
need to lie. I mean, starting out with innocuous, silly lies,
too serious lies that I think ultimately really did dictate
his personality disorder. And it had to do with having
to lie to her all the time. And I remember
him telling me several times he says, my mother has

(18:08):
never liked anybody that I've dated, and never will. He says,
no one will ever be good enough. And you know what,
that's exactly the same thing that Tim Wozniak said to
me when I interviewed him about his girlfriends. I mean,
at some point, you have to give your kids space
to breathe. I think you even told me once when
Dan was in your presence, that the phone would just

(18:31):
be ringing off the hook from her, that she would
call sometimes a hundred times a day, and he would
try to ignore, but then would lie if he was
in a place where she wouldn't want him to be. Well.
Part of that, looking back now with from the Master
of the Seat, is that he would say it was

(18:53):
his mother, but I often wondered if he had some
other girls dangling on the side that you know, he
never showed it's his phone and said this is my mother.
He would always just say, oh, it's my mother again.
She won't leave me alone. But didn't you also say
that Brittany had experiences when she'd call there, and that

(19:15):
Marian was very cold to her and wouldn't allow her
to connect with the whole time they were dating. I
think she went over there maybe once or twice at
the most because she felt so uncomfortable because she was
not allowed. She wasn't allowed. No, no, no, no no, I
wasn't allowed. After the cruise, there was times like we
tried to talk to Marian and say, hey, what's going on?

(19:38):
Can we talk about this? We would call, she would
hang up, we would call. She blocked on you guys.
She would blocked all of our phones, our cell phones,
our house phone, Brittany's phone, she blocked us. We weren't
allowed to talk to her, wouldn't couldn't communicate. I mean,
I have to say, I've known you guys now for
nearly three years, and I mean you guys couldn't be nicer, educated, lovely,

(20:01):
people to be around and with a lot of integrity.
I can't understand how she wouldn't have just said, I
want to sit down and talk to you both and
tell you what's on my mind, tell you what I'm feeling,
my concerns, because then you at least have the information
to go from there. Right. And as a mother, I
would have welcomed that, you know, it takes a village.

(20:24):
I would have welcomed a mother saying, hey, I don't know.
Do you not know that my son is this old? Right?
So it seems like it would have been such a
simple way to handle it versus all this questioning and
being in the dark, and then of course the lies,
and and and probably feeling like is there something wrong

(20:45):
with us? Or is it Brittany or what I mean?
We sat for years wondering, and then finally that day
that we saw her, it was revealed to us. But
way too late, way too late. Yea. You know one
of the lies of Dan that, let me say this,
one of what I believe to be one of Dan's

(21:06):
lies was every year on Christmas Eve, we have a
big open house at our house, and there's a lot
of people that would come, would be in the entertainment industry, musicians,
singers and so forth, and it would be almost an
open mic night at our house on Christmas Eve and
everybody would be singing and everything else. And I can

(21:27):
remember Christmas Eve, Dan said, well, I can't come unto
eleven o'clock. I have to be with my mother and
my dad. My mother requires that I attend a family function.
And I sort of thought that was a little bit odd,
because you know, once your children reach that age, you've

(21:48):
got to start releasing. You can't control and say, well,
you're going to be here, you know. And looking back now,
I don't know if that was a restriction Mary Anne
placed on or if he was going somewhere else on
his own accord and just using her as an excuse. Well,
I know that from what I understand from cousins and

(22:09):
other people that were at events like that in the
laws Niak clan, that he was very much a big
part of whatever family oriented events they did attend. And
I mean he was someone that did magic tricks for
them and sang for them. And Tim did also share
with me that she was very particular, especially she was

(22:30):
a very religious woman, and especially at something like a
Christmas holiday. I could almost see her laying the edict,
laying down the law that this is what you had
to attend she I mean she had the same thing
about Mass every Sunday and then the family dinner. I mean,
they had structure when it came to a religious type events.

(22:50):
So in that regard, I almost think that he might
have been telling the truth in that. In that respect,
there was a lot I'm sorry I jumped on you.
There was a lot of things that Marianne stipulations that
Marianne would put that came into play with the breakdown,
I say, of Brittany and Dan's relationship and when being
I'm going to say about a year and a half

(23:12):
into their dating period, all of a sudden, he says,
my mom says that I'm we're seeing too much of
each other and I can only see you. I think
it was three days a week. I think it was
less than that, two days a week or something that
had to be like almost like appointments. Was this before
the cruise where were no after? After? This was like

(23:33):
the beginning of the end for Brittany Um and Dan,
And so all of a sudden, it was just having
to jump through this hoop and jump through this hoop,
and there's more stipulations and more rules, and you can't
call the house, you can't do this. We can only
see a couple of times a week. And and that's where.

(23:54):
And now in retrospect we look back and we go, Okay,
was it all Marianne? Was there rather girls combination? Was
it just another second life he was living. I mean,
it sounds almost as if the only way he could
escape that was to live a second life, absolutely and

(24:15):
become other people for himself. I mean, just too. And
I think he lived multiple lives. I don't think that
he had a life. I think there was a life
with mom and dad, there was a life with Brittany
and us, and then I think there's a third and
fourth life too, the bad boy life. Absolutely absolutely At
the time do we didn't think that? And that's where
I think the personality disorder develops from there. You know,

(24:37):
the shuffling, the lying, the shifting, the changing of who
you are depending on who you're with, and then you know,
ultimately the drugs. But we'll get into that. I know that, John,
You've told me that Dan and you spoke and there
was this conversation that if anything ever happened to you,
God forbid that. Dan said he would take care of Kristen.

(24:58):
He obviously felt a very special bond with you, Kristen,
and I think in many ways looked to you as
more of a mother figure that he felt he could
be himself around. He always called me Mama, and he
said I'm more or I was more of a mother
to him than his own mother. And he would say

(25:18):
that so often. He would come to me for advice.
He always called John the big Guy, and I think
he viewed him as a dad, but he loved his
dad so much that he create created another. The big
Guy was his way of saying dad, because he didn't
want to lose. He didn't care for Darryl, his father.

(25:42):
I mean, everybody said that when Darryl would show up
at the theater for shows, he always made because Darrel
walked with a cane and he always made sure that
he was comfortable and his seating was They never missed.
I'm sorry, they never missed a performance. Like Daryl was
both of them. But oppression, yeah, especially Darrell. In fact,
Dan had already made the remark to me that he

(26:05):
hated the way his mother treated his absolutely, that was
one thing that she was the one that ruled the roost. Absolutely,
didn't he even when you had that cruise, didn't you
see him at some point and he said something along
lines of I'm sorry she's not herself today, or trying
to apologize for her behavior and yes, cover up for it. Yeah,

(26:29):
And when we were when we sat at that Tony
and Maria's or Tony and Tina whatever it was the
theater Tony and Tina's wedding, Darryl even apologized and made
excuses because her behavior was just so horrible. They were
both uncomfortable. He was embarrassed. Both Dan and Darryl are

(26:50):
uncomfortable and embarrassed. I think that you even talked about
the way he was with you and the way he
could be him self around you. He was there for
you in some pretty dark times in your life, especially
when your dad got very sick. One thing that always
stood out in my mind and is something he said

(27:13):
to me one day. And I had always said, you're
always so happy because he always had a smile everybody
that ever knew him. I don't think many people saw
him not smiling. And he said, he goes, I'm like
a clown. He goes, it's all on the outside, but
the inside is unhappy, and that just struck me. From

(27:35):
that day forward, I always kind of thought, what else
is going on. I didn't have a clue, but it
just bothered me. And I used to think that it
was just his mom and the pressure she put on him.
With me um, I felt that he wanted to do
all the things that he didn't get to do with

(27:57):
his mom. And you would be able to sit and
have coffee, he'd say, come on, let's go uh shopping
uh if or we'd go pick up Brittany from school.
We just got to do things that you do with
a son. But I don't think he had that with
his mother. And he would just tell me how much
it meant to me that I had I put that

(28:18):
time aside for him, and he expressed that in what
you told me a very compassionate way, especially when your
dad was sick, that he was there with you with
the oncologist, and I know I think that was actually
I was having iron infusions and it was a lengthy
period of time. I went. We were there for like
six or eight hours one day or something, and he

(28:40):
came and he sat with me. There was at the
oncologist office, and he sat with me and he brought
a picnic and we watched movies, and I think you
were there for part of it. John was there for
part of it. Then John had to leave, so Dan said, no,
I'm coming, I'm coming. So he was dedicated. You know,
if I needed a ride to something, if I wasn't
feeling good, Dan was there. I'm take you just like

(29:01):
a son with absolutely Brittany at the time. One of
the things that I haven't shared with a lot of
people is that at one time my dad, my father,
made a remark to me saying, I know, I never
have to worry about your mother as long as you're alive.
And I that's that's a big compliment for a father

(29:24):
to give to a son, Okay, And I never expressed
that in words, but for a period of time I
felt the same way about Dan, where when I would
see how he acted with Kristen, that a son mother
son relationship going just seems so healthy and so good
and so generous, and um, he was in your heart,

(29:48):
he was in my heart. Yeah. As our friends all
know is that I'm nineteen years older than Kristen, so
I've thought a lot of I think about things like that,
so it gave me a good feeling. But then fast
forward in the story here, I started to see the
deceit coming into play, and you had an experience with Daniel.

(30:16):
It occurred the weekend of the murders, but you had
no idea yet that the murders had taken place. And
I want to talk about that event because I really
believe that that is indicative of what you just said
about how he felt about you and how you felt
about him. He was coming to you, and in many
ways in that event, I feel like in that moment,

(30:38):
he was coming to you for the ultimate advice because
he had just committed two murders for a woman he
wasn't sure he was ready to go further down the
road within his life. And I want to talk about
it because I know that for you, that really is
something that haunts you to this day. It was the

(30:59):
it was the sun. I'm just for our listeners going
to capture the time frame. Dan had killed sam Hair
Friday afternoon in the attic of the Liberty Theater that
was on May one that evening until the early hours
of the Saturday morning. He then Lord Julie Cavulishi to

(31:20):
Sam Hair's apartment and killed her at twelve or four am.
He then came to you down in southern California in
your townhouse and on Sunday the second was it right?
And he's I think Brittany and Kristen you were up

(31:40):
in San Francisco, right, she was auditioning for American Idol. No,
she was auditioning for a show. She had gotten a
callback for a theater show. Yeah. So we had gone
up there for the weekend, and so he knew you
were away, and he yes, wanted to speak to you alone.
He called us. Actually, he called Britney and I and said, hey,
I know you guys on around. He goes, but is
dad around. I'm gonna the big guy is a big,

(32:02):
big guy around. I'm gonna go have dinner with him.
I want to have dinner with him, and says, yeah,
get him a call. He's around. And so take us
back to that time. Well, Dan called me and he said, hey,
big guy, I understand Mom and Brittany are out of
town and you're batching it this weekend. He says, uh,
what do you say? I stopped by, will have a

(32:24):
couple of cigars and put some stakes on the girl.
And I said, yeah, it's great, and it's not I mean,
this was not a surprise we have He and I
had done this before, this kind of thing, so I, um,
you would have lunch with him off. Sure, So he
came down to the house that that evening and we
had in the same weekend of the murders. Yeah, and

(32:48):
of course not not not I didn't know any of this,
you know. And but the conversation we we went on.
We talked about some things in general, and then he
came down to the conversation of being about he had
he was having second thoughts about getting married. It was

(33:08):
almost he was saying to me. He was explaining that
he almost didn't feel strong enough, that he was too
weak to call the wedding off, that he didn't know
what to do. It's someone that didn't like confrontation. Yes, absolutely,
And he said to me that he was wrestling with

(33:29):
this all and and he admired you so much because
you took you would always take the bull by the
horns and fix whatever problems your family had, and you'd
face anything you had to to do that. And he
think he was looking for that kind of strength. Well,
actually we had another conversation about that very thing at
one time. But that night I said to him, and

(33:51):
I used a phrase. I said, Dan, it is a
lot easier to get married than it is unmarried, and
meaning you get into a marriage, you have children and
everything else. You know, think about this, Dan, before you're
going on. You need to think about that. And we
left it at that. We we left the conversation at that.

(34:12):
But the other point I said, I'll get back to
you with it is at one time Dan had made
the remark to me he said, I wish I could
be like you. He says, you just stand up for things,
what you believe in and how you feel. And he
says I have a hard time with that. He says,
I never got into a fight in school when I

(34:33):
was a kid, because said he was bullied. He said
he was bullied. He says, yeah, and everything, and he says,
I wish I could have been I could be more
like you. And so that was you tell me even
that he said, you know, I'm a big guy, but
I'm afraid to fight because I'm just not one that
can handle confrontation. I don't and I think Darryl. Probably

(34:54):
he saw in Darryl a father that I wasn't able
to really stand up to Mary and either, so when
he met you and saw you as a father figure,
he honestly probably wanted to be more like you. Yes,
I'm looking back now, I'm seeing that, I'm seeing that

(35:15):
he came to me wanting to know that. I'm thinking now,
is how do I stand up for myself? How do
I be you? Yeah? How do I stand up for myself?
And it wasn't that I'm sitting here being bragging about
being a tough guy and all that kind of stuff.
But I am the kind of guy that draws a
line in the sand of saying this is where it stops,

(35:37):
and this is this is boundaries. You had said to
me when we had first met and told me this
story that that Dan really was reaching out to you
because he said he didn't know how to defend himself
against the woman he was about to marry, that he
didn't know how to deal with issues and concerns that

(35:57):
he had. And I think he has felt like he
was sort of becoming his father in a way, and
he really wanted to be more more like you. And
so I think he was reaching out for you to
help guide him, how to maybe get him out of
the predicament he saw himself in. Well, I was I
would never be one to say to Dan, oh, yeah,

(36:18):
I call this marriage off. I would never be one
to say something like that. But what I I'm the
kind of person I like to lay it on the
table and say here's what you can think about. And
we went on to talk about my statement of it's
easier to marry, but it's harder to get unmarried, and
going on to explain those things and saying, we're talking
about you're picking a woman to meaning Rachel, to become

(36:42):
your wife, and you're getting ready to spend a lifetime
with her, and um, you're gonna walk a long time together,
and you're gonna have children, and you need to think
about all those things. And if you're not comfortable with
that right now, don't be bullied into getting married. Just

(37:02):
call it off. And how did he respond to that?
He closed back up, He closed back up, and uh,
he couldn't do it. Yeah, we sort of ended the
evening on that note, really, and uh, Dan said goodbye,
and you know, we bid each other goodbye, and he
went on he had in the last forty eight hours

(37:25):
murdered two of his friends. Did you have any indication
in his demeanor that he had committed such horrible crimes? No, none, whatsoever?
I did looking back now, I um I saw nervous.

(37:45):
He was nervous, but again I chalked that up to
being the pre wedding groom jitter. Yeah, I mean, but
that makes sense. You wouldn't jump to So who did
you murder today? Yes, exactly, And it's totally illogical that
you would go there. What did you both feel when

(38:08):
you finally did here what he had done that weekend? Well,
first of all, we heard about it before it really
hit the news. We have a friend that works for
one of the local radio stations and he saw it
come across their news bulletin that he had been arrested.
They were the ones that called us and let us

(38:31):
know because we were on We were supposed to attend
his wedding, and we were on and off of defense
of whether we were going to go or not. Did
Brittany want you to go or did she not care?
She she didn't really want us to go, but at
one point she said, ah, we should all crash it.
It was like, you know, that's Brittany. Well, Brittany also

(38:52):
played a role to a certain extent because they did
re establish a relationship and an affair while he was
engaged to Rachel. Yeah, we didn't know anything about that,
So she didn't share that with you. No, we knew
that they remained friends for a while after they they
broke up. No, they weren't friends. They didn't speak and

(39:13):
then over the years we always stayed friends with him.
And then over the years then they started talking and
they became friends. And that's what all we knew. It
was just friendship. So did she eventually tell you that
she had started a little fling with him at some point?

(39:33):
It was always coffee, that kind of thing. Okay, so
coffee was sex. That she did share with me that
she was actually going to meet him again. I think
they met a few times, and the time that she
was thinking about meeting him again, she said, I decided

(39:56):
to cancel for some reason. I don't even know why.
She has no explanation for why. It was just an
instinct she had. She canceled, And she said it was
maybe a few days later that she found out he
was arrested for for murdering these people, and she said,
I'll never forget. I was at a nail salon and

(40:17):
I I excused myself and went into the bathroom and
threw up. I just couldn't believe that I had ever
been with this person, and then back with this person again,
and but again. It's the same thing with Dan coming
to see you the weekend of the murders. I mean,
you just you don't imagine. You don't jump to Oh,
Dan's nervous because he just killed two of his friends

(40:40):
and shopped their bodies up in the attic of the
theater he performed in. It's so surreal that how how
could you imagine? Right? We were in complete, obviously in
disbelief for the longest time. And I'm going to jump forward.
For me personally, the only way I've been able to
h for lack of a better word, accept this is

(41:01):
I've had to consider him as he's gone, he's past,
he's dead. That is the only way my brain can
handle thinking of this. And and I'm not one to
recapitulate things over and over. When something's happened, I talk
it out, because you need to talk it out, and
he'll and then I move on this in coming here

(41:24):
today is extremely hard. Do we have to relive all this?
And we talked for a long time. Thank you. This
wasn't easy and it wasn't something we stayed quiet for
the longest time. People would talk about it and we'd
kind of shy away because this was such a personal loss.

(41:44):
But you did have another experience with visitors, unexpected visitors
that prompted you to go to the police. You did
finally say it's time we have to talk to someone,
an authority because of our concerns. And I'd like to
share with our listeners now that event which took place.

(42:08):
It was the Saturday after Dan was arrested. Dan was
arrested Wednesday evening for accessory after the fact because the
Coast of Masa police believed that Sam was on the
run and Dan was covering up from and helping him.
And then by the next afternoon, Dan had himself confessed
to the murders of killing both Sam and Julie. That's

(42:29):
Saturday you had a knock on your door. Well, actually, when,
why don't you tell the story? We were at we
had gone to a picnic at some friends house and um,
we were there when Brittany got the call from Rachel
wanted to come meet her. Oh God, and she was

(42:51):
going to come to our house, and we said, you're
not meeting anyone alone right now, because we didn't know
where all these cards were going to play out, so
to speak. You knew that Dan was arrested, and and
you knew that there was murders involved, right, And I'm sorry.
And one of our conditions that we accepted the invitation
to that picnic was everybody there was in the theater community,

(43:14):
and we accepted that we are not going to talk
about Dan at that because we didn't want to go
unless everybody was on the same board. We're not discussing this.
It hurts too much quiet And because those people also
knew how close we were, did right. Yeah. And and
one of the things we had we've done during this
whole period of time is we we maintained a very

(43:37):
low profile on even knowing Dan. And it's not that
we were denying it. We were not a couple that
wanted to rush to fame where everybody heard us talk
and everybody heard us, Oh, we knew Dan, and we
knew better than that. And I like, all of a
sudden It was a competition of yeah, and we saw
this happening and we went, oh my gosh, you know,

(43:59):
we can't believe it's turning into this circus. It was
too hurtful for us. This was a thing that caused
us pain. I mean, you really did believe that Brittany
was going to be married to him and he was
going to be in your family. And after they broke up,
we still we considered him a good friend. He still
made the effort to Yeah, we saw him all the time,

(44:21):
even even the times when Brittany and him were no
longer speaking, he was still calling us. And and why
did you continue that relationship? Because I always felt like
he was a son. He loved him. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah,
do you still love him? I've never given that thought.

(44:44):
I mean, he has a place in my heart. I
I can't I can't give you an honest answer. I
don't love the person he's turned into. I don't love
anything that he's done. Um, maybe this is a good
time he was read the mother. Maybe this is a

(45:05):
good time to read the Mother's Day card he sent
you this. I got this card, and this card caused
me so much pain. I went for a good year
after I got this card, one of the first things
I did is I ran and talked to my pastor
lives across that at the time, lived across the street,
and I said, I don't know what to do. I

(45:26):
don't know what to do. Here's here's the card. This card.
This card. Incidentally, um, it came to Kristen the very
first Mother's Day. The Dan was in jail. He said,
he sent this from Orange County Jail to Kristen. Yeah.
It says Happy Mother's Day, Mama. Sorry, it's been so

(45:50):
long since writing, but I wanted you to know that
you're loved. You've given me some of the best memories
anyone could ever ask for. I love you, and I
think of you all often. You were always in my
prayers and in my heart. I've become a minister in
here and doing my best. Please send my love to

(46:10):
Britt and the Big Guy. I love you all. Happy
MoMA's Day, my my. I told me, I kept going
back and do I need do I Should I respond?
Should I not respond? And my first thing that came
to my mind, I was so worried about. I didn't

(46:32):
want to reject him because what if he was reaching
out and he had nobody else, and what if he
was thinking of hurting himself. All these thoughts were in
my head, and that I didn't want to reject him
by ignoring it, and like, I kept thinking, this must
have been hard for him to send. Why is he

(46:53):
sending me a Mother's Day card? Now I'm not a psychiatrist,
but listen into those words that he wrote to you.
It really sounds like an inner child who desperately needs
love and needed your love. And that's what made me

(47:15):
so upset because I had gotten to the point this
was basically the year after he committed the murders. I
had processed it that he was gone, and that's what
I had to do. You buried him to stay strong

(47:36):
and be able to not have my mind going back
and forth like how would he do it? And wringing
my hands. I just couldn't do that anymore. So are
picturing him in a jail cell and the whole thing.
I had to just put him to rest. And then
this came and it opened it all up again. So
I was at the point I didn't want to have

(47:57):
to relive it for me. But then and I'm thinking,
oh my gosh, I have a responsibility because he's reaching out.
What do I do so that we also have a
huge heart? You remember the young man there. So that's
when I turned to John, who didn't have an answer,
and then I turned to my pastor and he said,

(48:21):
you don't owe anybody anything, remember that, and you have
to do what's best for you. And at that point
it was just let it be and now. But I
couldn't bring it to myself to throw it away. Part
of our thing in this is is that very time

(48:42):
is um. I saw it myself personally as another step
of dance. Manipulation of people. Isn't an interesting like I'm
listening to it and I'm feeling a little choked up
for you? And yet then the the male perception is

(49:03):
goes to the Dan that he has become right, which
is the manipulation and that Yeah, and I took it
as here I am, I'm stuck here, but I want
you to feel sorry for me, and I I have
um um, I believe now that I see Dan for

(49:28):
what he really is really Yeah, And do you feel
duped by Dan? Oh? Absolutely absolutely? And I am one
that I I have no words that I could use
to defend Dan and it's not a matter of resentment

(49:49):
at all. It's a matter of my eyes have been opened. Right.
It's funny, I think you've grown into that position because
of out a year and a half ago. I believe
I put you at the table with the four woman
of the trial of Dan's trial. We all had dinner together,

(50:10):
and I remember there was a bit of a divide
in the conversation because she obviously felt very strongly that
Dan is where he's supposed to be, which I think
we all I don't think there's really any disagreement about, right,
But we were trying to explain, and of course it
was more you guys than it was me. But I

(50:31):
had also had so many interviews at that point where
I felt like the explanation is that Dan had such
low self esteem and he wasn't capable of iver was
standing up for himself, and he was always searching for
love so desperately that this woman who was calling the
shots in this relationship got him to a point where

(50:54):
he he was the you know, he was basically a
puppet in in this scenario, and she was more of
the mastermind. That's the impression I had at the time,
given all the interviews I've done, and you both agreed
with that analysis because of who you knew. I mean,
you think you were still trying to hold on to
the person that you knew. But I think with time

(51:17):
now you're starting to see it as again, like you said,
a manipulation and maybe even manipulated you guys to a
certain extent, right, because you're starting to put more of
the pieces of the puzzle together and and recognizing that
no matter who manipulates you, or no matter who calls

(51:37):
the shots in a relationship, it still doesn't mean that
you have to get to the point where you're killing
people to sustain some kind of a relationship or or
to please someone to the point where they're going on
the honeymoon cruise that they want and and they don't
have to work for a living. I mean, one of

(51:58):
the conversations we started was about Rachel's visit to Brittany.
We started that, but one of the things in that
was the Rachel sad and made fun of Dan about
how body odor and things like that. And one of

(52:19):
the things that I find that when we first met Dan,
he was groomed impeccably. Okay, he was groomed impeccably. He
was always one. He was against drugs, he was against
alcohol because he said he had a brother who had
trouble drinking and everything else. He was like. His appearance

(52:44):
was always they used Brittany and him would call each
other and trying to coordinate their outfits. I mean, I
think you said that people would call them kenn and Barbie. Yeah. So,
and we watched Dan's appearance disintegrade, going to a guy
who was no longer groom, no longer freshly bathed, and

(53:06):
stuff like that. To where And one of the things
we found very confusing about that remarks from Rachel was
why was she marrying a guy she felt that way
about that she was making fun of. That was something
that really stuck in our mind that day, sitting around
that control. Let's talk about that day. Let's let's talk
about that day. So the so the doorbell rang, you

(53:28):
opened it up, and in walks in walks Rachel and Noah,
her brother, and immediately what we saw was her holding
a large bottle of alcohol, which to this day, I mean,

(53:49):
I can't even imagine what she was thinking. I mean,
she barely knew you guys walking into I mean, we
knew her from theater, but not well at all. And
to walk into anybody's home carrying a bottle of alcohol, yeah, vodka,
a large bottle. Well, you said she was also clearly

(54:10):
drinking it. But but when you think back, and I
know I'm interrupting when I say this, but I in
my mind now I'm thinking back about why did she
walk in without alcohol? Was it was she trying to
drown sorrows that her fiance had just been arrested for
murder or was she trying to portray a cover up

(54:32):
to us? We look at me, I am so torn
up about this and the whole that it was a
prop and she was an active absolutely, and that's the
way I'm reading it now. We questioned why she wanted
to talk to Brittany for the longest time. We questioned

(54:53):
it for years. Why why because it's not like they
were friends, they hadn't talked and years why, Well, she
found the sex tape. You knew that Dan had taped
his relations with Brittany, and he had kept a tape
and they had a little like firewall safe in the

(55:14):
bedroom and it was right next to the gun by
the way that Rachel found and we had no I
we we we didn't even know that they were again,
that Brittany and Dan were involved. So now knowing now,
we understand why it was important that she came. But
we were bewildered. And the only thing that it appeared

(55:34):
that day is she came down to exchange stories with
Brittany about well, when you dated him, did he do this?
Did he do this? Uh? Did he do this? How
did he respond to this? I think because she found
that sex tape and knew that there was an intimacy
between Brittany and Dan, I'm supposing that she wanted to
know how much you guys knew. She wanted to know

(55:57):
to what extent Dan shared with you, her involvement, her
role in the murders. That that's what I'm guessing why
Noah and she came down there to have that conversation
and to see how much they could procure from both
of you as to what knowledge, if any, you had.
I know that she said, you guys separated, right. She

(56:19):
went out on the deck with you and Britain and
Noah stayed inside with you. You stayed in the couch.
You stayed on the couch because I remember you saying
that he commented about your coffee table and the things.
And so why don't we start with what happened on
the deck, because I know that she told you some
things about the night of the murder, of the murder

(56:40):
of Julie that ended up being very different than what
actually well, like I said, they were comparing things that
he had done in the relationship and all that. And
then then she mentioned she was tired after the show.
She was hanging out playing on the computer in bed,

(57:03):
and she said that Dan went in to take a shower.
Here's where she said that he went in to take
a shower, and he had told her that. This is
after the fact that she talked to him after he
was arrested. He had told her that he had climbed
out the window and that's how he had gone to

(57:24):
command through that window. But go ahead, So that always
said that night and then and she told you she
was in bed with her right with her computer. So
then fast forward and I think it was the next day,
We're not sure if it was the next year, the
day after um Brittany had gotten attacks from Rachel and

(57:48):
the text had said everything I told you was a lie,
So disregard it. All so complete confusion. Like incidentally, incidentally,
she also told you before before you share John what
you're going to say, you had told me that Rachel

(58:08):
also shared with you that Sam Hair had owed them money.
And that is why Dan had Sam's a T M
car to Pin number, because Sam gave it to him. Exactly, yes,
and clearly that is not even remotely what the case
really was. One of the things, let me back up

(58:30):
here on is Rachel and her brother Noah came to
our house and then Rachel wanted to spend more time
speaking girl to girl to Brittany, so they went to
Brittany's apartment in Burbank to spend the night. So she
spent the night that night with Brittany in her apartment

(58:53):
in Burbank. And well, actually part of the pretense of
it was her apartment was now a crime scene. They
are whatever they were investigating. She was locked out of
her apartment. She didn't have any clothes, so she had
asked to borrow clothes from Britt. So we were so adamant,
we did not want that to happen, but Britt insisted.

(59:15):
She said, Mom, Dad, I'll be fine. I had my phone,
don't worry. About it. We just didn't have a good feeling,
like we really did not have a good feeling at all.
We didn't know what our daughter alone with her, Hence
why we said, you're not meeting her, she's gonna they're
coming here, or you're not meeting them. And then after
all that, we use all that energy to have them come.

(59:36):
Then Brittie's sides, they're going to go back to Burbank. Anyways,
that night, I don't think we slept at all. We
were a wreck. The The other thing about that visit
that that sticks out in my mind is that when
we were separated, you know, the guys and a girl

(59:56):
so to speak. When we were separated, No and I
were talking, and I still I can picture this vivid
in my mind. Him sitting on our sofa talking to
me with his pipe very uh, I don't know as
I'm a lit pipe, but very yeah, and saying, um,

(01:00:17):
I said to him, because we were we were in shock,
you know, And I said to him, I can't believe
Dan would ever ever do something like this. Him saying
to me, well, you know, Dan and I used to
like to play a little what if game, And he said,

(01:00:39):
Dan and I would set on his patio many times,
planning how we could do a perfect murder and get
away with it. Yeah, what meaning? The perfect murder means
you murder someone to get away with it. And I
came out of that where I said, I said to

(01:01:01):
Kristen that there's something, he knows something, he knows something,
there's something happening here, and he's basically trying to throw
it all at Dan, right, But in in a strange way,
he sort of implicated himself too, because he said, we
played these games together, right, and I have to tell

(01:01:23):
our listeners. There was in the police transcriptions that I read,
particularly of his interview with the Costa Mesa police, there
was a line in there that the combination of talking
to you and knowing the story that you had just
told me and now our listeners, besides reading what he

(01:01:46):
said to police, really gave me pause more than anything else,
because he had said, because I know you said to
me at that point, you decided with your wife that
we have to go talk to somebody, We have to
go talk to the authority. He's there's clearly this this
gentleman no A. Buffett knows way more than he should
know at this stage. And It tells me that Dan

(01:02:08):
wasn't alone in the in the planning and execution of
these murders. And and I have to say to you
that I read Noah telling the police when when he
shared with them I co signed that apartment and they
were being evicted that Tuesday, the week of the murders.
So Noah said to Dan, what are you gonna do

(01:02:32):
about this? Because this eviction is going to screw up
my credit and he said Daniel Waznia said to know
Ah buffet and he told the coast to Masa police
this that Dan told me, as long as I can
get four d dollars a day, we're going to be fine.
That is the exact amount of money that Dan took

(01:02:54):
out of Sam Hair's account every day, because back then
that's all you could get out of the A T M.
That was the max for the day. So the fact
that Noah is telling the police when interviewed that he
had that conversation with Dan and that he suggested the
exact number that was being taken out of Sam's account

(01:03:16):
every day, tells me he knew he knew it all right. Well,
that was why we contacted the police and said I
and I initiated this with Kristen said we better tell
somebody in authority about these conversations. And her it was
her behavior too. She wasn't behaving like a fiancee who

(01:03:38):
just her whole world was just brown apart. She was
drinking and laughing, and they reticulling him and I we
both agreed that this is bizarre behavior. We need to
go disturbing. It was disturbing. And she lied to you.
I mean, did you tell police at the time what
she said about Sam har owing the money? And we did,

(01:04:01):
and in fact, we went to the police a second
time after our daughter had shared us the text that
Rachel head Center saying, hey, everything I told you the
other day was a lie. Disregard it. We we had
taken a snapshot of that and we had taken that
to the police too, and like you need to look
at look at this to something going on. Did anything

(01:04:23):
come of? We questioned why nothing? First of all, we
are in shock that no one ever asked us to
come to talk to us. We weren't supoene, we weren't
nothing except right. We kept questioning, like why we we
saw this text we met with Rachel Lenoah, why aren't
the authorities wanting to talk to us further? Why when

(01:04:46):
they're when they're going to trial, Why isn't anybody talking
to us? It has bothered us for years because I
really do believe that. And the way it played out
was that the d S Office was looking to get
Dan and Dan alone at that point. I mean, they
they wanted their guy, and they didn't want to muck

(01:05:08):
up the waters with the potential of it being more
than one person. They felt like that could possibly a
mitigating factor in their pursuit for death. And it seems
like there was the sense of turning away from others involved.
I mean I asked the CUSTOMSA police most specifically why

(01:05:32):
they didn't pursue charges with Noah, and they said, because
he convinced Rachel to do the voice stress test as well,
what else is he going to say, and don't do
this voice stress test that's going to make him look
guilty as hell? Like, why of course he's gonna say
do it. And she did it in such a way
that she was able, as the detective told me, you know,

(01:05:55):
she actually the tests were inconclusive. She had done it
three times, and in his mind, it's basically failing, but
it's not admissible in court because of the way in
which she did the test. She sort of spoke into
the buttons on her shirt and spoken it in a
different tone in her voice, and she so she was
able to beat it, so to speak. I mean, I

(01:06:17):
do believe that they tried to build enough evidence, and
they did build a tremendous amount of evidence, and I
give Costa Mesa police considerable credit for that. But the
d A's office just kept saying it's circumstantial, It's circumstantial,
And as so many attorneys have told me, most cases

(01:06:38):
are built on circumstantial evidence. You rarely have a video
of the perpetrator shooting the victim, right, or whatever the
crime is, you rarely have any recording of the event, right,
So most cases are built on circumstantial But I'll the
one time I did sit with him, this is the prosecutor,

(01:06:58):
Matt Murphy. He told me, I don't appreciate or understand
O C jurors that you just never know which way
it could go, because if someone like Rachel were introduced
as a mastermind, because that's what I said to him,
I said, after all these interviews I've done, it's my
belief that she was the mastermind here, and he basically

(01:07:21):
dismissed me like I was a fool. And that's when
he explained to me that he said, you don't appreciate
that they could have seen that as a mitigating factor. Well,
I said, you had a confession. You had a guy
pulling his hair out of his head, saying he enjoyed
cutting sam Hair's head off, and and laughing with this

(01:07:42):
insidious laugh. I mean, you had everything you needed to
pursue death, right. I just don't understand why we had
to frame Rachel in such a way that maybe she
helped the police in solving the crime with introducing the
evidence in the case. It's just when it when it
really wasn't the case. And I just felt like it's unfortunate.

(01:08:06):
And you're you're asking me why they didn't follow up
with you guys. I think because again, your conversations with
Noah and with Rachel would have would have maybe gone
against their narrative. Well, a couple of things here, okay.
One is you saying that the voice test being inconclusive.

(01:08:29):
My answer to that is she was an experienced actress, right.
The other thing, too, is when we watched videos of
the interrogation. We saw Dan is that she walked into
the room and first words out of her mouth were, Dan,

(01:08:50):
what did you do? Okay? To me? That was her
trying to deflect anything away from herself when I saw that.
Interesting secondly is I saw during the interview process at
times Dan running his fingers his hands through his hair.

(01:09:11):
That was a sure fire clue knowing Dan that that
was a lie. He always did that when he was lying.
He had absolutely sign he was lying. That interview we watched,
and I don't believe he was telling them the truth
through most of it. He was the laugh that he

(01:09:32):
did that was not a real laugh, That was fake.
That was that was I'm gonna go for the insanity point.
That was an act. And to add to your point,
Tim told me, and so did Bob Christilla and a
bunch of other people, Kathleen Comfort, a bunch of cousins
and friends close to the Wazniak family said Dan never
touched a gun in his life. Dan never went shooting

(01:09:54):
with his father like Tim did. Dan had never touched
that gun before these murders took place. And it has
always been my gut feeling that he he didn't do
this alone. I don't think he had it in him
to do it alone. But he's taking the fall. He's

(01:10:18):
taking the fall. I don't it's not that I just
I don't think I in my gut, I believe that
he's taking the fall for other people. Well, he's keeping
everyone else out of it. Yeah, I'm we're not saying
he didn't do that. He didn't do it. I mean
I think he, I just didn't do it alone. Yeah.

(01:10:39):
I believe he was probably the principal actor absolutely, as
he always was. Yeah. Yeah, he was always the lead.
He was always the lead. You know. The other thing
is sort of like I'm flashing back to my My
conversation with Noah is about, you know, the ability to
be able to do the murders, and they talked about
the games and everything else. But another part of that

(01:11:00):
conversation was no one knew exactly where Dan God the
the knives and so forth from that he used in
the mutilation of the bodies. And he goes, oh, yeah,
they come out of a shed, and I knew where
that shed was and all that it was the shed

(01:11:20):
behind his house, right H's apartment. And we questioned, well
that he didn't talk to him. He was the guy
was put in jail. When did Noah get the chance
to go through all those details? And that conversation once
again for our listeners, happened the Saturday after Dan was arrested.

(01:11:41):
And did you tell the police that yes? And what
did they say? Um? I had never been in a
police interview before, interviewed by police. Were UM thinking about

(01:12:02):
that interview right now? Is I think they were very
careful not to lead me anywhere and that questioning when
I when I look back at it now, they would
ask They would say, tell me what you saw, tell
me what you heard. Now. At times I would I
might make a statement and they would say, so we understand,

(01:12:24):
is this what you're saying? That kind of thing, But
there was never a they were trying to groom something.
I never never got that feeling in that interview with
them that they were trying to groom me to say
something that they wanted. Never. So, then when you did
share with them though, the conversations that you had with Noah,
particularly about where the tools came for the dismemberment, where

(01:12:45):
they came from, did you feel like you could ask
them is that something he would have known if he
could he have learned that from you guys, or you
couldn't feel like you could ask them questions. I don't almost.
They never gave me a feeling that I couldn't ask
them something. It was more of a feeling of tell

(01:13:07):
us what you know, tell us what you're we're listening
to you kind of thing. So I never got the
feeling that we're trying to h But do you feel
like they didn't do anything with it after? Or absolutely? Well?
I mean because we were and Kristen and I in fact, Kristin,
why don't you you know we've had those conversations. You

(01:13:27):
were questioning why there was no follow up exactly? We
we questioned it for years. Why nobody um asked us
further questions. I mean, I feel the fact that they
came over that day and sat with us people that
weren't in our life. Brittany was not friends with Rachel

(01:13:49):
by any means that is alarming. That's very disturbing. And
we we let the police know this, Hey, this isn't
somebody we've had contact with. They came out of the blue.
Were nervous why she wants to talk to us anyway,
or why she wanted to talk to Brittany. Anyways, this
is alarming to us. It does make you question. I

(01:14:10):
think it's appalling that the woman that was convicted of
accessory after the fact that came to our house at
the time of the murders and gave us information we
went to the police. Nobody has come to us and
wanted to ask us and question us further. She told

(01:14:31):
us incriminating facts, and no one has requestioned us, especially
since Rachel was giving you information about the case that
we're based on lies exactly. And as far as the
tells you said, you were watching the interrogation tape once

(01:14:52):
Dan was arrested for accessory after the fact, they taped
all of their interviews with him that went through that
Wednesday night into Thursday until he finally confessed to the murders.
You got to watch those tapes. What did you glean
when you saw those tapes? A lot of his tells, Well, yeah,

(01:15:15):
we both we we had come to recognize the telltale
signs of a lie, and because you experienced them firsthand
with him and um. The one of the things Dan
habitually did with and did with us is when you
would ask him a question before he ever answered a question,

(01:15:37):
he always go huh, like he didn't hear you, So
he's buying time to figure out what he was going
to say. And my answer, when you do that, I'd say, ha, hell,
pay attention, and then he could answer me. It was
about everything, like would you like a doughnut? Like everything.

(01:15:58):
So watching those tapes was the hands through the hair, yes,
that was that was always signal signals. He was lying
all the time, shaking his knees, always a lie. The
tone in his voice he would change. There was I'm

(01:16:21):
very I'm a musician, so I'm all about listening to
intonations and tones. And yes, I knew like he would
drop his tone his it would just change. The tone
would drastically change when he was talking in a lie,
telling a lie, and in that interview several times that
tone changed. What about when he'd said, no, I'm sorry,

(01:16:43):
that was a lie. That's a lie. But now now
I'm gonna tell you the truth. Now I'm gonna tell
you the truth. That wasn't the truth. He had a
big whopper of a lie that he told you many
years prior to the arrest, and it haunts me to
this day. I want to know why I was told
this lie. I remember exactly where I was. I remember

(01:17:06):
what I was doing. I was in New York and
um Brittany had moved back for I think the second time.
I was shopping in a store and we were setting
up our apartment. A phone rang and she he had
called me, and I was with Brett, and he goes, Momma,
do you have a minute. I gotta talk, like, yeah,
what's up. I could tell something was wrong right away,

(01:17:29):
and he says it's serious. So I remember I kind
of pushed my card over to the nile and I
kind of just stood there and he said, my brother
Mike was killed in an accident, a car accident. And
then my first recasid, Oh my gosh, what happened. Oh

(01:17:49):
my gosh, Danne, I'm so sorry what happened. So he
said he was drinking and driving, and I said, oh
my gosh, I go, I gotta call your mom. Your
daddy goes no, no, no, no, no, don't know. He
he says, they're they're just not doing well with it,
and it's best that you don't call. Just let it
be right now. Maybe later, but they're just a mess.
I understood that made sense, like give him time and

(01:18:11):
all that that part of it that made sense. So
later on, and I don't remember how much after. It
could have been a couple of months. I really don't know.
I remember we were messaging I think a O L
or something and we were talking and um at the

(01:18:33):
time he had asked, oh, I do know what it was? Now?
He was when he was doing Nine, that's what, because
he had messaged me and says, I really want you
and the big guy to come to my show. And
Nine was the musical that Dan and Rachel were performing
in when these murders took place. And I had said, well,

(01:18:56):
I'm not sure. I get a lot going on. And
I think I was direct doing a show at the
time or something, and it had come up something about
David Newman had come up in conversation, and I remember
saying something and I remember him saying, I don't want
you to talk to him about it. Nobody knows, and

(01:19:20):
I just I didn't Understdavid Newman was a very close
high school friend that they eventually had a falling out
over the lies that Dan would tell. They just got
tired of all and he said they were silly lies,
but they were ridiculous and they got tired of it.
And even when Rachel came into their life, they noticed

(01:19:40):
that he was starting to do drugs and they didn't
want any part of that. Okay, Well, the other the
other part about it, if I recall correctly, is you said,
when Dan, when you said you were going to call David,
you were going to call Um, Um, Marian, Marian and
Dan Daniel or l Errol because you want to express

(01:20:02):
your sympathy and you know, and extend your condolences. He goes, Nope,
don't call them, and don't tell any of my friends.
That was why he said, don't tell David Newman, because
maybe he felt David would go to Mary Anne and
say yes. But Kristen, you even said to him at
the time, if I remember you saying to me, you said, Dan,
why don't you want anybody to know? And he told
me we had had a falling out that him and Newman,

(01:20:26):
David Newman, he called him Newman. We knew him as Newman.
He was a friend of Brits too. He says, Newman
and I had and Matt have had a falling out
and I do not want this to be the reason
they come back into my life. I want them to
come back into my life out of their own will,
not out of sympathy for this. So again I'm like, okay,

(01:20:49):
all right, So yeah, every he did, and to this
day I don't understand, not that there's ever a necessity
to lie ever, but but what prompted him to do that?
Because you know what, that bothered me that his brother
had died, you know, and I'm thinking, oh my gosh,
his poor parents, what they had to go through. And

(01:21:11):
I did, by the way, just for the record, his
brother is alive and well and living in Missouri. And
I didn't find out that he was alive until the
day Rachel and Noah came over. It was then as
Rachel and Brittany were talking about things, I happened to
mention Mike dying, Mike dying, and Rachel goes, his brother

(01:21:34):
is not dead, and I was My mind was blown.
So Daniel has two older brothers, the oldest being Mike
and then the middle being Tim Wasniang and both are
alive right now. I know, years later after I had
felt so bad for this brother dying, and you never

(01:21:55):
had the chance to ask Daniel if I was going
to ask him anything. That's the one thing that I
need to know because it wasn't even connected to anything.
That was the reason. Did he want me attention? Did
he did he need me do? But wasn't that sort
of also a random call out of the blue? I

(01:22:17):
mean he wasn't dating brit anymow No, we had still
talked like you know, that relationship what was there. But
but it wasn't like he was trying to extort any
kind of sympathy cash out of you to pay for
a funeral. No, no, a matter of fact, he told
us to keep it quiet. Speaking of extort he did

(01:22:39):
going back to the sex tape, what that Rachel found
of your daughter and and Daniel in in a sexual
having a sexual dliens. He explained the tape by saying
that he planned on extorting you for money. I mean,
given his relation ship with you guys and your history,

(01:23:03):
that that has to hurt a bit. I don't believe
it for a minute. He matter of fact, we've lent
him money before. If he needed money, he could have
came to us and as he did, he always paid
us back. He always did. I don't believe that at all.
He was There's no way he was going to extort

(01:23:25):
us for money, So that was for Rachel's benefit absolutely.
And as for Rachel Buffett, do you feel that she
is ever going to properly be charged in this case
and face the consequences of her true role in these
murders even if the district attorney decides to never recharge her. This,

(01:23:53):
your port podcast, your book, your research is going to
a social media nightmare for her that from here forward,
anybody that ever meets her comes in contact, he's going
to know who she is, know what she's about, and
know her true character, and you're never going to view

(01:24:15):
her the way she wants to be viewed. So once again,
I believe the two of you, of all the guests
I've had on Sleuth new Dan the best prior to
his life with Rachel, and because you had such a
close relationship with him, because he looked to both of

(01:24:35):
you as mother and father figures. I wanted to share
with you a quote from June Kiblih, who's the mother
of Julie, one of Dan's victims, and she spoke in
open court on sentencing day, right before the judge was
going to impose his death penalty sentence on Daniel and

(01:24:59):
I want to recite this to you because soon after
you sent me a text and they're eerily similar. So
with that, June spoke and directed this comment to Daniel
Wozniak in court on May you took my beautiful, caring
daughter's precious life to cover up your heinous crime for

(01:25:23):
a pathetic reason for wanting money for your wedding. For
six years and four months, I have sat behind you
every time I came to court, watching you come out
and smile for the cameras and the audience, enjoying being
the center of attention. You show no remorse and no
guilt for taking my beautiful, loving daughter away from us.

(01:25:48):
And now I'd like to follow up with the text, Christian,
that you had sent to me. I believe it was
almost that same day after court convened. The video footage
of yesterday shows the real Dan to me, the one
I now know. He is so aware of the camera,
and it is most likely not even comprehending the moment

(01:26:09):
he's in because he's playing a role to that camera.
I don't think he's ever lived an honest moment in
his life. He's always aware of others viewing him, and
he craves that audience. I now see this with opened eyes.
I kind of get chills when I read that. Tell

(01:26:29):
me how you feel that has um It's it was
very at that point when I, when I had those
open eyes and I had that moment of clarity, I
was able to completely let go of the person that

(01:26:49):
I once knew because I realized I didn't know that
person ever and I became so where not that I
was never not aware, but I was became more more
and more aware of the pain that he inflicted on
the families and so many other people. And I was

(01:27:15):
able to let go of the past. Understand now that
how duped I guess, for lack of a better word,
and um, that my views and trust had been completely
shattered and broken. Do you think you could ever forgive him? No?

(01:27:42):
And part of that reason is my trust in judgment
was shattered us he used it so I and one
of the things that sticks in my mind and I'll
never forget. I can hear my daughter's voice say this

(01:28:03):
is she's always viewed my husband as her ultimate protector,
our family's protector. And when she said this to John
a few years back, it sounded like a little girl
but she said, Dad, nobody ever gets by you. And
the fact that he got by you, Dan was Nat
got by you. I don't know if I can ever

(01:28:24):
trust anybody. And I feel the same way. I have
a hard time ever making a new friend, because the
very first thought I have is how do I know
that they are who they are? I honestly will say
I don't trust anybody anymore other than my close circle,
and I never will again ever. And he took that
from me, absolutely, And that's what I can't forgive. What

(01:28:49):
I can forgive him four is that the pain that
he has inflicted upon Sam and Julie's parents, family and
friends for what was his own selfish gain. And there's

(01:29:13):
no way, there's nothing I can say here today to
praise Dan. You know, I think of uh, we we
did not come here today to praise Caesar, but to
bury him. And that's the way I feel that there's
nothing we can say to praise Dan or to shift

(01:29:33):
the blame to anyone else of saying, well, they caused
this to Dan. In fact, I get accused of being
very black and white. And my feelings on this is
regardless of anybody else involved in Dan's life. Dan made
the decision to do it to the trigger and he
and he is responsible for that decision. And I'm no

(01:29:57):
way am I ever ever going to be able to
say to Sam and Julie's family that, well, you've got
to understand what happened, he snapped. I'm not buying any
of that. I'm saying to them. I'm saying to those families,
you have our deepest sympathy. Well, I am sure that

(01:30:22):
they appreciate those words because they are heartfelt and sincere.
And I know how hard it was for you both
to come in today and relive this, and we really
appreciate you doing that and sharing with our listeners whatever
insights and knowledge that you had with Dan wisni At firsthand.

(01:30:43):
And thank you, truly, thank you for coming here today.
You're welcome. Coming up on Sleuth, Dr Vonda Pelto comes
to our studio. Dr Pelto has a unique psychological perspective

(01:31:08):
on the mind of a murderer, given her career history
as a shrink to some of the most famous serial
killers in our history. Her office was a jail cell
in the Los Angeles Men's County Jail, and just a
few of her many daily clients included the likes of
Charles Manson, the Freeway Killers, and the Hillside Stranglers. Tune

(01:31:30):
in to hear the Good Doctor share her psychoanalysis along
with her professional analogies, comparing her former murderous client's behavior
with that of what she defines as Daniel Wazniak's behavioral disorder,
which manifested once he met Rachel Buffett. If you enjoyed
this episode of Sleuth, share it with a friend and

(01:31:53):
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