This week on Sleuth, you’ll hear from another close inner circle friend of Rachel and Dan’s who we felt could have been an excellent potential State witness for Rachel’s trial. Audrey McVay was their third wheel for most of the time Rachel and Dan were an item, up until the week before the murders. What was it that she sensed that made her realize it was time to check out? Audrey McVay sits down EXCLUSIVELY with SLEUTH as she recounts chilling stories of the infamous couple, who Audrey at one time considered her dearest friends.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language.
Rachel did find a sex tape of Dan cheating with
his former girlfriend, Brittany Boudre. I'm sure that would piss
her off, and that is just a few weeks before
the murders. Welcome to Sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. This week
(00:36):
we sit down with one of Rachel and Dan's closest
inner circle friends, Audrey McVeigh. Audrey said she was the
couple's third wheel for nearly four years before Daniel Wazniak
murdered his neighbor Sam Hair along with Sam's friend and tutor,
Julie Kubuishi. The stories you'll hear from Audrey provide a
(00:57):
window into a bizarre, alcohol and drug fueled existence, a
world that made up Dan and Rachel's shocking, law breaking lifestyle.
I wanna welcome Audrey McVeigh to Sleuth. Thank you so
much for being here. I want to tell our listeners
that Audrey was a long term friend, actually probably one
(01:19):
of the longest friendships that Rachel had prior to the murders.
I believe that Audrey correct me if I'm wrong. You
met her in the fall of two thousand six when
you both attended Long Beach Community College, right, and you
were in the theater department. I was doing technical theater,
doing makeup and costumes, and she was doing acting. So
(01:43):
we didn't have many classes that coincided together, but we
did work on a show together, and that's how you
initially met. And well, I know you had shared with
me when we had interviewed a couple of years back
that she was sort of awkward socially, that people had
very different opinions of her. So share with us because
(02:06):
I know she was homeschooled, right, Yeah, that was a
huge red flag for everybody at theater. Everybody was always like, oh, well,
she she's weird because she was homeschooled. You know, It's
very like, oh that that was just the excuse everybody
had for her weird quirkiness. Is, Well, she was homeschooled.
(02:26):
She doesn't know how to properly interact between people, and
she says weird things and she does weird things, and
she just doesn't know better. So that's how that's the
past that she got. Yeah, basically like she doesn't know better,
She doesn't know anything. Now with some though I think
you said some of some of the students. Some of
(02:47):
your friends would say, Oh, they thought she was really
standoffish and arrogant. They perceived it as more of that
she was into herself. I mean, yes, she is, but
I that you gave her the benefit of the doubt,
but some people didn't. Yes, yeah, definitely. I always like
(03:08):
to give people the chance. Well, you know when I remember,
because I just started theater there and she and some
other girls there, they just they were having so much fun,
and I was like, oh, I wanna be their friends.
I want to be part of that. So I like
basically introduced myself and its theater. So I said, hey,
(03:29):
I'm Andre you guys look like you're having fun. I
want to be your friend basically, and they're like, oh, yeah,
be our friend. So I just started hanging out with them,
and I mean, he's so much fun with her. I
mean we hung out three times a week, maybe more,
I don't know, two to four days a week. That's
a lunch time to hang out with somebody. We just
(03:49):
had so much fun together, you know, when we were
like chain smokers and we don't know, we're just going out.
We have fun, lot of fun. You had a lot
of fun. You guys definitely managed to drink some fine
wines and and there was there was a little bit
of sticky fingers going on at certain points of your
(04:11):
relationship with her, And that was just part of the
college sort of let's see how we could push the
envelope and and and do some things that maybe now
we go back and say, we're not going to talk
to our kids about No, no, not at all, be
but you, but you had a lot of fun doing it.
And I do want to just mention a couple of
(04:32):
the things just because quite frankly, she's this little thing
and I've always found it so incredulous that when you
said to me she even stole her bridesmaids dresses, I'm like,
how did she even hide them? Well, I mean she
did carry a big purse, you know, But and I mean,
(04:52):
to be honest, these rides maid dresses they weren't something
you would buy it David Bridle. They weren't full with
tool and thickness. They were slinky, little summer cocktail dresses
that were blue like with that like kind of chiffon
lace or whatever, and so they were slinky and thin
(05:13):
and stuff like that. They weren't ridemaide dresses in the
four Yeah, they were very slinky dresses could be rolled
up into a ball about the size of half a
basketball or cantaloupes like they could. But she got all
four of them. Music, Yes she did. And I know
(05:36):
that you also said that meals food alcohol. I mean
sometimes you'd wait in the car and Dan would come out.
So Dan would say, go to the car, and all
of a sudden he'd come out with a basketfull of
I didn't realize that they had such money problems because
I thought Dan was a manager out of Horizon and Sanamnica.
That's what I was told, you know, that's what they
(05:58):
said that they did because he did work at the
Verizon on Bellflower and Long Beach. You thought support college student.
I was working part time going to school full time.
I was broke as how Rachel and I would split
packs of cigarettes. In fact, I think you told me
the one thing that she was bummed about was she
couldn't figure out how to steal cigarettes. She stole everything
else but could get Yes, exactly, there was no way
(06:21):
to steal cigarettes. So Dan would always pay for drinks
because I'd go out and they're like, oh, do you
want to drink, and I was like, I don't have
any money. They're like, okay, well we'll buy you one.
I'm like, okay, you can buy me one, but I'm
not going to waste my own money on drinks because
I don't really care that much about alcohol. And so,
and I was always the d D. I always drove everybody.
(06:41):
So I never was like, which if a couple a D,
it was this couple. They really didn't need their own duty.
So let's start off with some of those stories, because
I'd like to really focus in on the time that
Dan came into the picture. I mean, because you really were,
in fact, you've referred to your self to me is
the third wheel, and you didn't mind it because you
(07:03):
really were enjoying yourself and having just wheel. But you
said I was a third wheel and it didn't bother
me because they never made me feel that way. Yeah, no,
they didn't know. Yeah, So when you first met him,
it was when you went to I think she was
in rehearsal and on a a play at Golden West.
That's when they first met each other, right, Yes, but
(07:23):
I remember her telling me about him and how he
was pursuing her and wanted to date her, and she
was very like, I don't know, I don't know, but
he's persistent, and I think she liked being chased. You
definitely liked being chased. So she eventually acquiesced and started
(07:47):
dating him. And what were your first impressions of him?
He was nice and cordial and very friendly and and
you did you have a nice time did he did
he seem pretty harmless? Did he seem did he show
any kind of signs of a temper? The very very
first time I met him, I mean we were dropping
(08:09):
something off at the college, and um, there wasn't very
much interaction. I mean it was like five minutes. But
she then pointed out to you, that's the gentleman that's
interested in Yeah. So, I mean we were talking about
him on the way there. She's like, Okay, so you're
gonna meet Dan blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Okay.
So but then, I mean obviously your time with him grew.
(08:32):
I mean you spent quite a bit of time with him,
and and what were what were your feelings about him?
I mean, did you did you care about him? Did
you enjoy his company as much as Rachel or did
you feel like you had a Warren Rachel about him?
What give us your overall sense of what you felt
about him? He was he was nice, and he was
(08:52):
charismatic and um fun loving and he liked he liked
to see enact. And we did get along. We had
a lot of TV shows we liked and we would
talk about that and which were those? Family Guy and
they tried. He was obsessed with Lost and so they
(09:13):
tried to get me to watch that, and they watched
like the first couple of episodes. I was like, Nah,
it's not my cup of tea, but thanks, And we
just had fun drinking and talking about movies and TV
shows and theaters and uh Rachel and I would just
sing all the time. I have a bad stage, right,
so I only went up like twice ever go sing.
(09:36):
But are you talking about like karaoke? Yes, karaoke, But
when it was just us, it was different. I would
sing with them. And I remember this one time we
went caroling. They had the Seal Beach Christmas Parade and
her brother had the wine the wine No, they didn't
have the wine bar yet? Was it just the cruise
(09:57):
the way? Yeah? And what was that that was cruise around. Yeah,
it was a cruise around Naples, and they served wine
and cheese and crackers to people and just kind of
took them on a little romantics who are around Naples
and stuff. But they were promoting the wine the company.
And then they have a like a little store outside,
(10:17):
like once you finish the cruise, if you liked the wine,
you could buy the wine somewhere. Yeah, they that's when
they started the the bar bar. Yeah. Yeah, roughly around
the time that I and how smart you were. Honestly,
I think of all the people in this story, I'm
going to give you the crown of having the best
(10:38):
instincts at the most opportune time. We're talking one week
before the murders, right, yeah, yeah, so before we get there,
I don't want to skip ahead, and I'd love to
hear some of the times where you really got a
sense of who Dan was and the and the relationship
he had with Rachel. I mean, I remember Ray will
(11:00):
really like to drink. I don't know. I just thought
it was really stupid that they wanted to get married
so because she was under twenty one at the time,
they wanted to get married so that they could go
on a cruise together so that she could legally drink
on the cruise because she could drink on the cruise
if she was married to him or something, right, because
she was twenty at the time. That's a dumb reason
(11:22):
to get married like this, Well about dumb resons. How
about dumb reasons to murder people to go on a cruise.
But the point of that, you you drink booze here
all the damn time, like what they really everything everything
was at the moment. Yes, when I came back from Texas,
(11:45):
the first trip we did is we went to the
Catalina wine mixer and it was it was a lot
of fun. We um, of course, you know, you get
drunk and we would we would just dancing in the sand.
It was so much fun, like all as like me
and uh Noah and Nate, who are Rachel's older brothers. Yeah,
(12:08):
but we were just all dancing and the sand and
the sun, drinking wine, eating sausages. And then we went
back towards the I don't know why. They started fighting,
so she kind of chased after him. Yeah, so she
went after him, and then about two hours later they
(12:32):
both came back and they were like grumbling, and I
mean Dan, Dan has always been very apologetic. I noticed
even in interviews when he even told the cops. He's like,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry I lied to you, you know.
A he's always been very genuine and sincere when he's like,
I really apologize. That's just I was gonna say. Whether
(12:55):
he means it or not, I don't know. After that,
it was fine and we just and then we had
just had way to make it, wipe it and wipe
it away, you know, all the all the the whole fight.
Whatever happened, however they fixed it, I don't know, but
I swear to God once they started drinking, everything was
fine when they were sober, and then when they started drinking,
they just so would you say, would it be apt
(13:18):
to describe it as when you were with them if
the drinking just kept going, that's when it would start
turning dark. So let's talk about one of those instances
when it started going dark. One night, Dan and Rachel.
It was their anniversary and I think Bryan remember year month.
(13:42):
Can you give us a time frame before the d
U I, after the d U I, before the d
U I. So we're in two thousand nine, August of
two tho nine was the d U I right, yeah,
yeah so sometimes because I remember it was the summertime
(14:03):
and Dan said that he went to glenn Ivy or
something to get a certificate and something about Katie being involved,
Like Rachel thought he was cheating on that was a
girlfriend's girlfriend. Yeah, and she was really piss because she
(14:26):
knew Dan was lying to her and she was furious.
And what is glenn Ivy Just because glenn Ivy is
one of those day spas where you go and there's
um you pay like sixty bucks and needed to use
their pool and their son and their jacuzzi and their
mud bath and all of those things. So he was
like it was supposed to be a surprise in blah
(14:47):
blah blah blah blah. And Dan would tell me things
in confidence that he was planning to tell Rachel just
so it could be me vouching for Dan. Yeah, well
Dan did say that, you know, That's what he did
tell me, So you know me, I'm just I don't
you're taking at face value automatically assume people are gonna
(15:10):
lie to me. I just I automatically assume, Well, I
think you're telling me the truth, because I can't think
of a possible reason to lie to me. And honestly,
even if you were cheating on Rachel, that's your problem,
your business. Yeah. So, so they had a big blowout fight,
and I I was always the one who was left
(15:32):
taking care of them, left taking care of Rachel when
ship bad stuff happened, when fights or whatever, or she
got too drunk. It was always, Audrey, you take care
of her. And actually said that to me multiple times. Okay, Audrey,
I'm done. She's your responsibility. You take her home. I'm
(15:52):
done with her. You deal with her. And I'm like,
why do I have to do it? He's like, because
you're the best friend, you gotta deal with her. Was
almost like I don't want to deal with her. You
deal with fighting, Like who wants to have to do? Right?
So do you want to come on? It was like
taking care of you know, they say babies are drunk adults.
(16:14):
You know, drunk adults are just like babies, falling all
over the place, vomiting everywhere, and it's just a pain
in the butt because you have to carry them and
they're heavy. But she so, she was totally trashed and
we were at a bar, called Tracy's. It was across
the street from Dan's work when he worked at Verison,
and I didn't want to leave her alone. She refused
(16:38):
to get into my car. I took her She had
been drinking. So she had been drinking. She was holy trashed,
and so I took her keys because I'm like, you're
not driving home. You're not gonna get into my car.
And amount how much I pushed and shove because she's
a she's a scrappy fighter, she is, and I was like,
I don't know what to do with you. So I
went into kind of a mom mode, and I'm like,
(16:58):
you're gonna go into your car and you're gonna sit
there and you're gonna lock the doors and you're gonna
go to sleep, and I'm gonna be watching you in
my car to make sure you don't leave, because I
know you. And she's like fine, And so she went
into your car and I had her car keys and
then I swear to god, I looked away for like
five seconds. I don't know how she did it. The
(17:19):
doors ever opened, she didn't, I don't I don't know
how she did it. She got out of the car.
I didn't notice at all. And then I was waiting
for her to leave, and I was like, why hasn't
she tried to sneak out and leave yet? She should
have tried already. So I went over and she wasn't
(17:40):
in the car, and I was like, what the hell?
And so I think, yeah, he's like, Rachel is here
scaling my vents and scaling the wall of my house
and try and climb onto the pattio. I don't know
how she did it. She's like spider woman or something,
(18:01):
because she would wear these four inch heels climbing up
the drain pipe, up the wall and getting onto the balcony.
How the hell did you do that? So you obviously
weren't that far away from his house or no, it was.
It's probably about the drunk. She walked two miles to
(18:23):
the house, Yes, and she did it very She must
have been running, because how could she have gotten that
far in ten minutes? I mean she had to be,
because I mean to run a mile at least takes
like ten minutes. She must have been running. She must have.
(18:44):
So he called, and what did he ask of you?
Come and get her? Come and get her. She she's
pissing off my parents she's scaling the wall. My mom
is furious. The senior wasnia X didn't care for her
that far as I knew. They didn't like Rachel. Do
you know the reasons why? I thought it was because
(19:05):
she wasn't Catholic. That's what I was told, Like, Oh,
she wasn't Catholic, she's homeschooled, her parents are poor. She's
not good enough for you. It's really is what it was,
you know, like, she's not good enough for day Um.
Did you ever hear them say anything like that about Rachel?
(19:27):
I mean my interaction with her, his parents, it was
probably less than five ten minutes. But getting back, so
that was that the night because I know there was
a story when we talked about you know, you said
you had some fun times and not so fun times.
So after that it was Dan and Rachel and his
(19:48):
cousin Justin and me and Dan. You know, I was like,
I can't get her into my car. What the hell
am I supposed to do? How do you want me
to make her leave? I can't make her leave, and
we have to do something about her car. And because
you drove, you drove over by the bar. So it
(20:09):
was like, well, she can't drive. So Dan drove her
in his car because she would get into the car
with Dan, and then I drove with Justin Justin Brown, yeah,
Dan's cousin. And then we went to that apartment that
looks like a front you know, Okay, that's Noah Noah
(20:32):
Innates place that they That came up quite a bit
in the trial because because the detectives had to say
we weren't prepared for a formal interview with Dan and
Rachel because we thought we were walking into a storefront.
We didn't realize that people were living there. That's when
they to Dan and Rachel totally changed it around. So
(20:53):
getting back to and so Dan, they took Rachel back
to that La place and Justin and I were still
sitting in my car because we were just Dan was
trying to get her into the apartment and trying to
get her unload her and he was just having difficulty
(21:14):
and finally got her in, and Rachel likes to check people.
She was like, okay, I'll do it for a little while. Okay,
I'm back, So she went inside for a few minutes
and Dan came out and it was going to be like, Okay,
I'm going home and Justin's going to jump into dance
car go home with him. And then we all knew
to wait because we all knew Rachel was going to
(21:35):
come back out, because that's what she does. Of course,
she came back out and Dan put her back in,
and then Dan was in the car and she she
ran back out again, and she was yelling at him,
and she was at the front of his car, hands
and she's like, you're not gonna leave, You're not gonna leave,
blah blah. They're just yelling at each other, and Dan
(21:57):
released the brakes and like, that's where was she where
they were in the middle of the street. No, but
where was physically with where she was standing in front
of the car. To standing in front of the car,
he released the race kind of tapped on almost sort
of suggesting I'm about to run run you over. Yes, yes,
(22:17):
he hit He literally hit her, I mean not hard,
but she's like your card hell broke. I'm just like,
oh my god, Justin when I were sitting in the car,
like oh, can we go home yet? And this time
for good she went. That's who she went in. So
so this time it was her leaving him, not him
(22:40):
pushing her away. You know, this was her tricks. Gonn.
Was that the only time you saw their fight erupt
into something pretty physical? No? Um. Once we were at
his place, his parents place, and we were playing pool
and drinking wine and they got into a fight. I
(23:01):
don't remember what about. And if you don't remember, those
reasons to sound like a pretty petty nothing specific. Yeah,
they were all very petty. A lot of it was
jealousy or who was jealous of whom. Rachel was always
angry because Dan's he was friends, he was still friends.
(23:24):
She didn't like that, you know, she needs to be
the center of attention, and so she slapped him and
he shook her and slapped him in the face. She
slapped him in the face, and he grabbed her and
shook her and was like going over hit me again,
(23:44):
And he looked at me. He was like, you guys
need to leave. Take her out, Audrey, take her out
to me, like you're the nanny. Yes, no, I was.
I used to say that all the time. I'm I'm
their babysitter. What the heck? Like, I'm not. I'm not
a babysitter and my friend, I'm not your d d.
I'm your friend. Did she ever give you any indication
(24:07):
that how how she truly felt about him, what her
real feelings were for him. There was this one night
they I didn't go out with them. They went to
a wine bar on Pine Street in downtown Long Beach
and she called me because they had had a fight,
(24:29):
and she called me from some like I don't remember
if she called me from her cellphone or not. I
don't but I went down. There was late at night,
and I picked her up, and I'm like, why aren't
you wandering the streets of downtown Long Beach at midnight?
What the hell is wrong with you? She had like
zero regard for her safety. She felt she could just
(24:50):
walk wherever. And that's another story. But yeah, she was
just like I don't know if I should say in
the relationship or not. And I was like, well, do
you love him or do you want to work it out?
And she's like, I don't know, I don't know. And
so it's very like I didn't want to give her
advice because I feel like it's not my place to
(25:11):
make the decision whether somebody should stay in the relationship
or not. But I was like, well, think about this,
think about that, Like how much. Do you love him?
Do you want to spend more time with them? Do
you want to work things out? Are you sticking tired
of him? At that time? Are they living in Noah's
because they went from I know at one point they
went from staying at Noa's and it was just so tight,
(25:33):
so many people there too. That's when they moved into
the Campton Martinique in Costa Mesa. So during this time
where she was really questioning things, was that when they
were living at Noah's place. I think so, Yeah, I
think so, I think yeah. So that was probably putting
pressure on their relationship too, I mean yeah, but I
(25:54):
mean she was because Noah actually put himself on the least.
They had such a bad credit because they had no
money and they had been evicted from another place in
Long Beach, and so Noah put his name on on
the lease, probably to say, look, guys, maybe the best
thing is for you to move on and get a
place of your own. And actually Valentine's Day, ever, is
(26:17):
when they moved into the Camdens. I think it sounds
like they were both kind of questioning each other as
far as do they will is this something they want
to do? For the long haul. Definitely, I felt like, right, yeah,
I always felt that Rachel kind of had one foot
out the door. You know, I never ever once thought
(26:39):
that their marriage would ever last. You're not interesting, um,
because I don't know. I just felt that if Rachel
met somebody who was hotter, or richer and better looking,
she would leave. And you know, she did find she
did find a sex tape of Dan on with a
(27:01):
former girlfriend. I'm sure that would kiss her off. And
that was just a few weeks before the murders. Did
she ever mention Brittany Boo dre and so he described
it to her when she found it, which, by the way,
it was sitting right next to the gun in the
little fire safe in their bedrooms. So interesting how she
could have found the sex tape but didn't know about
(27:23):
a gun. She she told her friends the night he
was arrested at his bachelor party for accessory after the
fact is the police thought he was helping Sam hiding Sam.
She she told her friends at Dave Barnhardt's apartment, one
of the guys at the Camden, that she didn't know
Dan had a gun. But meanwhile, the sex tape was
(27:44):
right next to the gun in this very small little
safe they had in the bedroom. But he described it
to her, Oh, I taped this so that I can
extort the family for money. That's how he explained it
away sex tape, like while they were when they were engaged.
(28:05):
So um, and that family is actually coming on the
podcast in a future episode. And they considered him family.
They considered him like a son. They would take him
on cruises. Their daughter dated him for a good two
years and uh or nearly two years. So the idea
that he was contemplating doing that, which I don't think
(28:26):
he ever would. They said he never asked them for money,
and that was never and he they were mom and
dad to him that he was. He'd come there, come
and go as he pleased, and even kept a relationship
with him after he broke up with Brittany. So but
for her to hear that explanation and go oh, okay,
like I mean, that's basically she she described it to police,
(28:47):
so matter of fact, it was as if she explained
it away and she was she was okay with it right,
like she was behind and supportive. Well, I mean, basically
any way to get money. I have a friend who
said Audrey I've never been so happy that you're so poor.
That's although very scary, very scary, and also very sad
because they did find or Dan at least found a target.
(29:12):
I want to talk about now these texts because you
you you, as I've said to you earlier, I'm giving
you the crown for the best instincts of the bunch,
because you decided as this relationship was starting to unravel,
you know, you felt that it was getting more and more, um,
I don't know, in a dark place that you were
(29:33):
just not comfortable anymore. You felt that maybe in some
way your safety was threatened because you had a conversation
with her at the pool one day. Yeah, I was
at a friend's birthday and she she um, brought up
ecstasy and I was like, why did you do that? Like,
(29:56):
I didn't everythink that that's something that you would do.
Our vice was wine and cigarettes and that was it.
And she told me that at her bachelorette party, which
hadn't happened yet. Just just for clarification, you were going
to be one of the bridesmaids, one of the four bridesmaids. Correct, Yes, yes,
I was, so she You're having this conversation at the
(30:18):
pool so and she said that she um. She jokingly
said that she wanted to slip a pill into my
drink so that I would know how it feels to
be on ecstasy on ecstasy because oh it's great and
it's wonderful and I would love it and I should
(30:39):
just try it once. And I was like, no, I'm good,
I don't you don't want But she made that joke
and I was like, no, don't do that, like like,
why would you even suggest it? And she's like, I'm
just kidding, and yes it does. Because Rachel jokes about
a lot that they and does them. She's that type
(31:02):
of person. She'll say one thing and do something else.
And to me to how somebody like her say that
she would slip me a pill and I was like, well,
I would notice, and she's like, no, you wouldn't. I
would do it when you weren't looking. And I was like,
oh my god, she really so you really? Yeah, this
(31:23):
person has it in their mind already that her bachelor
she totally wants to drug me. She probably wants to
do drugs at her bachelotte, and she probably thinks everybody
else would totally be fine for it, except for me.
I don't know. Now, when she's telling you this in
the pool, did you get the sense at that point, Oh,
she's already tried it, she already has. I felt really uncomfortable.
(31:47):
I just just something that maybe that's something collected. She
was going to the next level and you didn't want
to go with you. I'm like, so you're doing a
bunch of drugs now, right, And that was just a
place she didn't want to go. No, no, and never
never know. And then when she was leaving the party,
(32:08):
they hit my car because this was when they were
going to rehearsals, you know, for nine for nine, And
she backed up and hit my car and I heard it.
I was like, what the hell? And then oh, dude,
we hit your car, but don't worry. We didn't done
to or anything. Did they know they didn't my car,
but they still hit it. I'm like, so that was
(32:29):
that was one of the bad days. Yes, I mean
I could look back and laugh now, but at the time,
I was like, what the hell, guys, But that's really
when your instincts kicked in. Yeah, And I just I
feel really, really uncomfortable. It's time for me to distance myself.
I think that was like on a Friday. So how
(32:49):
did you how did you break ties? How did that happen?
So it was here, you were going to be at
her wedding and her brought one of her bridesmaids and
you had been with them together for so long. Tell
us about the hot tub story. When you had met Sam.
It was at Camden and we were just all hanging
(33:10):
out around the pool and the jacuzzis, I want to say,
they were Twe went over to talk to like Dan
and all the boys, and Dan was talking to everybody
about the d Y and Sam was but yeah, I
know he was there because that's when he did his
whole gorilla routine and that was just hysterical. And that
(33:32):
guerrilla routine was the Afghan story. Sorry, yeah, about how
he stopped he was drunk and he stopped traffic and
then pretending to be a gorilla and he just cars
and yeah, I just pantomizing the whole thing. It was
so funny, this hysterical. But then things got really serious
(33:52):
and then started through conversation, Dan complained about the d
Y and Um being in jail, in jail, and then
Sam talked about his jail time and you know other
people talked about bad things that they've gotten in trouble
with the law for whatever. Because I think Sam reacted
(34:15):
pretty strongly because as I spent two years, everybody was
like one day was the you know, like bashing them off,
like you're not your assissy, but oh please, one day
is nothing. But that's an important exchange because at that moment,
that's when Dan and Rachel found out about Sam's past
(34:36):
and that he was charged with murder at one point,
and I believe that's what started putting the target on
his back, which is really creepy to think that they
were planning something like that far ahead of time. Yeah,
so anyway, that happened when you were at the hot
tub with them, pretty crazy, right, Yeah, that's so? Was
(34:58):
that the was that the day you find he ended
things with them? Soon after that you said it was
a Sunday. I think it was like on a Sunday night. Um,
so that was Saturday. So then Sunday rolls around in
you and I. They went over there and Rachel disappeared
for a while, and I'm like, where's Rachel? And I
asked Dan and he's like, well, she probably went to
(35:20):
Gomi smoke a cigarette. Somewhere, but she didn't want you
to bum one off of her because she only had
one left and she didn't want to feel bad and
she didn't want to have to share it with you.
And I was like, oh, okay, I get that because
we're so broken. Cigarettes were expensive to us, you know, yeah, okay,
(35:41):
I get not wanting to share your last one of
your last two cigarettes with somebody if you can't afford
to buy another pack anytime soon. And I'm like okay.
So I went back inside and then Rachel appeared a
few minutes later, and she seemed a little off, but
she's probably just drunk again whatever. And then um, one
(36:07):
of our friends, she kind of leaned over and looked
at her and she's like, you're rolling, aren't you? And
I was like, what the fund is rolling? What does
that mean? What does what does that mean? And she's
like she's doing drugs and I was like what, And
Rachel denied it and then she was like so what
kind of like yeah, yeah I did. And I got upset.
(36:30):
I can't believe you do that. I can't believe you
would do them from me, not in front of me,
but just know how he drugged in front of me, basically.
So I went outside and I yelled it down. Rachel
is in there right now on drugs, and Dan was like,
what do you mean I hid that from her? She
shouldn't have been able to find it. She probably just
(36:51):
went upstairs to Via and got it from them. Wait
a second, you mean to tell me that you actually
bought jugs. You have them in your house and you're
saving them for a later date, to you actually consistently
using them. And he's like, you know what, after a
(37:13):
long day of work and stress and blah blah blah
blah blah, we just like to relax and unwind. Sometimes
you're you're you're actively doing drugs. Yeah, I forget what
the word was, oh, I said. I was like, so
you're condoning her actions. You're okay with her doing jugs
because you're doing jugs too, Great, Dan, jugs great? And
(37:35):
I yeah. I went back inside cried in the bathroom
for a bit. Rachel was came and was like, oh,
I'm so sorry. I didn't know that this would make
you so upset, and I was like, of course, it
makes me upset. You're doing drugs, like and I grabbed
my purse and I run outside and I just was
(37:59):
Dan was like, are you going? And she's drugged up.
You're condoning this action. I can't believe you're letting her
do this. And I just hopped the fence and I
ran off and Dan chase after me, and he was
angry because I always took Rachel's side and I was
being Rachel's friend and not his friend. And did you
(38:22):
feel threatened at that point? Yes. He hit me in
the arm and he was like, some fucking friend you are,
and he like hit me and I had my shoe
and I have perfect aim when i'm angry. Okay, let
me just tell you. And I knew that if I
threw it and I hit his head, he would come
turn around on me, and like, I still wanted to
(38:42):
hit him back, so I threw my shoe in the
middle of his back and he was, fuck, you, don't
come back. We don't want you here in my you know,
we don't want you in our life anymore. You're not
our friend. And I was like, that's fine. I don't
want to be friends with drugg ease. And I left,
but I couldn't actually leave because I was so emotionally distraught.
(39:03):
I was crying in my car and Rachel came back
to me, and you know, Rachel's like, oh, we're sorry.
And our friend was like, I made them throw all
the drugs away. I saw them flush it down the
or they flushed it down the toilet. Did you see
them flushed it down the Did you see I go
in the toilet? No, you didn't, and so they're probably lying.
But I was just so upset. I couldn't drive. Well,
(39:24):
you knew it was the end, yeah, And so I
went back inside. Yeah, I went back inside because I
couldn't d like you know, back um, and I I went.
I was just I just I couldn't drive. I was
(39:45):
too upset. And I went back in and Dan gave
me a side hug and he's like, I'm really sorry,
and I was like, apologize to me when you're sober.
And I walked away like I just yeah. I didn't
didn't like hug him either, but he put his arm
around me. I said, apologize when you're sober, because I
don't believe you. Yeah. In the morning, like Dan, Dan
(40:10):
had gone already because he had left for work. And
what work? What was he working? I think he was
working at Oh No, he wasn't working for a Rizon
he was. He just had that little happy hour he
was doing the happy Hour card and traveling around to
a bunch of places trying to sell them and whatever, um,
(40:32):
which apparently he wasn't. He was just out in Newport
Beach getting drunk or something at the beach or I
don't know that. So that's that's what I heard. I
heard that he wasn't he would sell them, but he
would use but yeah, yeah, he would use an his
excused to get out of the house because he didn't
want to Rachel to know that he wasn't making any
(40:53):
money and he was just selling those cards as best
as he could. But he was also just hanging out
of bars getting drunk with people while trying to sell
the cards. Did you ever have a sense because that
right at the that time when you were started, you know,
pulling back and breaking things off, that was at the
height of their financial stressful status where they were being evicted.
(41:17):
Did you did she magether being evicted and so so
she didn't. She didn't bring that up. Ever. They never
talked to me about their money issues ever. I mean, yeah,
they'd be like, oh, yeah, we're both broke because we're
college students. Of course we're broke, you know. But I
thought Dan had a job that paid enough to support them,
(41:37):
like to buy the rent. And you know, they just
kind of open the fridge, Violet said, when she had
opened the fridge, you could tell there's areay two things.
And yeah, there was never anything in the fridge. They
had more alcohol than that. It was always alcohol, and
it's like, oh, hey, there's cheese and a packet of
hot dogs and some catch out like yeah, yeah, they're
(42:02):
fus was empty, you know. Okay, So I want to
talk about So what was your final goodbye? I mean,
so that morning we were all sleeping in the living
room and she apologized and I said I love you
and goodbye, and I walked out and I left and
I never talked to her and never saw her again. Well,
I shouldn't say I never talked her. That's what we're
(42:24):
going I never. I never thought about because you did
talk to her a phone call as well as some texts.
So should we talk about the phone call first? Uh? Sure,
I'm like, which one? Well? Why are we talking the
order it happened? Yeah, let's do that. So tell me
which happened first, because I do have texts here that
(42:45):
were days after the murders MA, and then I have
other texts that were later on in twenty when she
had her first attorney, which was I leave. That's when
you got a whole another are asking you to be
a character in this. So I don't know where the
call lands in all of that, in the scheme of it,
(43:07):
after the text before the character witnessed. The first one
was a Monday May. I remember I was at the
gas station and she sent me in text asking me
to meet up. She wanted to meet up with me.
And now let's just let's just make it clear that
this was three days after the murders took place Friday
(43:30):
afternoon one, and then that evening actually at the turn
of midnight on the those were the two time frames
of the murders. And then she's calling you Monday, she's texting,
You were calling you, texting, texting, and I had no
idea about these. You had no idea about anything. So
you hadn't even heard any of the news that a
body was found in Sam's apartment. First thing I heard
(43:52):
about any of it was after Dan's arrest, when somebody
messaged me and asked me, Hey, why is Rachel and
Dan's wedding off. That's the first thing I've heard about it,
getting these texts at the guest is. Yeah, So, as
far as I knew, the wedding was still want and
she was asking me to um be her bride'smaid, and
(44:12):
she missed me, and she wanted me to come back.
She's asking you to please resume the role of always
were going to be a bridesmaid. And then she figured
when you said goodbye, and then when I said goodbye,
and um, she thought that meant you were out of
her wedding. Right, Yeah, she was out of her life.
I was. I was when I said good like I mean,
(44:34):
she might not have known, but when I said goodbye,
I knew that was my final goodbye. I'd love you
and goodbye. She knew that I was her letting out
of their friendship, that I didn't want to be her
friend again because I didn't want to be around any
of the drugs. So and I told her, I was like,
why don't you make one of your new friends your bride'smaids?
(44:54):
Like I'm not. I told her, I don't want to
be around drugs and stuff like that, make her when
if you're bridesmaids because I'm not going to do it.
I had such a I don't know how to describe it,
but it was in my stomach, in my gut, just
this like wrenching, like don't you even think about seeing her?
(45:16):
Because I mean I cared about her a lot, we
were very best friends. Loved her, Yeah, exactly, and I
just as much as, of course I would want to,
Oh you're you're hurting, of course, let me be there
for you. But it just it was not saying don't
even think about it, don't and it just that's what
(45:38):
they call it. Yeah, it was your body was if
I did I probably if I had said yes, I
probably would have vomited on the spot. That's how like
sick I felt. I was like, no, interesting that, Yes,
I was just so she was asking you in a
text to physically meet up. Yeah, she's let's meet up,
(45:59):
let's get cough. She's ship in my life has gone bad?
And did you ask what is she referring to? Know?
She's like, if you could see where my life is now,
I think I'm gonna I'm going to because you you
were kind enough to give them so how about if
I just read them real quickly to so, so it
(46:20):
was Monday PM. Hey, I know you're at work right now.
Do you want to get some coffee or something when
you're done, I'd like to talk. And then at nine
oh three pm, so you obviously didn't answer her right away.
I can throw someone else in as my bridesmaid, but
it's not going to be someone like you who I
wanted in the wedding. I'm just afraid that we're both
(46:42):
going to regret this. So should we try to work
this out and see if we're going to be friends
still now rather than later. I just feel hard if
we were able to work it out our differences and
then finding this out later, and you would have missed
my wedding, and then at Tuesday May at eleven oh
(47:03):
two am. All right, Well, I'd rather still rather you
be there rather than someone who hasn't been an amazing friend,
even though you cannot continue to be. My life has
been so fucked up and stressful. I'd rather not put
one of my quote unquote new friends. That would worsen things.
But if you feel that uncomfortable, I understand. So it
(47:25):
feels like maybe there was a missing text back from you. Yeah,
because that that for whatever reason you didn't we didn't
you didn't give to me. But and then it says,
I kind of she continues, and this is again the
next Tuesday morning, right, I mean it's the following Tuesday morning.
She's saying, kind of wish I had nothing to do
(47:45):
with my life right now. If you change your mind,
let me know today, or or if you can stand
to talk to me, I've called I could really use
and then she's Tuesday, this is the last text to
you on again to they made oh four am, I
could really use a friend in some advice one last time.
(48:08):
Thanks for all your love and friendship. You've been great.
In one of your texts back to Rachel, you said
you can text me, you can call me, but I
don't want to ever see you in person again. And
she sounded like she was saying that to you. She said,
if you only knew how fucked up my life lost
right now. And of course at the time, I was
(48:28):
just like, honey, it's just the wedding jitters, like it's okay,
call him the heck down. But you know, obviously afterwards,
looking back at that text, yeah, I really was fucked
up right back, like, oh, and so tell us then
how did you find out about the cancelation of the
weddings and his arrest? And so I was at work
(48:51):
and I was online on a website that connects all
your messaging programs, and my friend messaged me and said, hey,
did you know Rachel and Dan canceled their wedding? Do
what happened? Do you know why? And of course I
don't know why. I never got that email, and I
wasn't I'm not involved in the wedding anymore. And I
(49:13):
told them like, no, I don't talk to them at all.
They're like, you haven't talked to him at all? I
was like no, I was serious when I said, like,
I'm not talking to them anymore. They're not my friends.
And this was on Thursday. Yeah, yeah, And so I'm,
you know, sitting here like what the heck happened? And
I messaged Shana like, hey, why did they call up
(49:36):
their wedding? That's Shana Adler, Rachel's last remaining friend. Yeah,
And then she told me that Dan had been arrested
for and all like the boys had been arrested and
for being accessories to a murder and I was like,
are you serious? And so my mind wasn't it. Days
(49:58):
after that, I just couldn't wrap I head around that.
And then later, uh, like the next day I found
out Dan tried to commit suicide in the thing by
like hitting his head really hard against him, like really,
got you're so stupid. Um. But I found out he
tried to kill himself, and I was like, oh my god.
(50:19):
And then I think when was it that they said
that that he was at fault, because well, they charged him.
They charged him with murder on mate. The excess we
charged was at his bachelor party at Tsunami and hunting
to meat. That was Wednesday night. On by Thursday afternoon,
(50:41):
he confessed and that's when they charged him officially with murder.
And then they went that night to find Sam's body
in the attic of the theater. Yeah, so that that
was happening. That was Thursday, which is you were at
work when I guess they they basically said that they
are canceling the wedding or somehow Rachel put it out
(51:02):
there at she she had emailed everybody. That's what my
friend said that everybody was sending email saying that the
wedding was canceled and they apologized and then um so
I asked Shana and I was like, what happened? Why? Now?
Shana Adler was still close with her for quite some
time after, right, I mean she she was one of
the believers in and Rachel's innocence. Her and Caitlin Gult
(51:27):
don't remember. She's another one that they did like posters
and Facebook pages right raising Rachel's innocent Oh yeah, I
remember that Facebook page. And then that gut, gut wrenching
feeling that you spoke about. Do you what do you
think that was fun? Was it just because you were
hearing from her or did you have some other weird
(51:51):
psychic feeling because that was the week in the Honestly,
I feel that it was the gods just saying like, no, don't,
don't cut ties, leave alone, don't, don't, don't have coffee
with or don't like basically like that it's the wrong choice.
(52:12):
You made the right choice in leaving. Don't go back
like it was just big red blood, you know, and yeah,
and gut instinct, just don't do it. You reach out
to her on June and you say to her, don't worry, honey,
You're not ends with me. I don't hate you, and
I honestly wish you the best. It's just that the
(52:35):
problem is that I care too much about you. I
can't take care of you, and I'm too old to
be running around town acting like a hooligan, smoking my
cigarettes and getting drunk, and I just I don't want
to have to babysit you while you get drunk, because
you do things that just aren't safe, like getting out
of moving cars and climbing trees and driving drunk. And
(52:57):
I'm honestly trying to be a better purse sin. I
just when you started doing drugs, I realized I just
didn't want my life heading in that direction, and I
already felt uncomfortable around all the neighbors you hung out
with at that apartment, so I had to leave. Even
though I loved you, I had to get out of
the situation. And I realized I left you at too
(53:18):
horrible in your life, and maybe it was for the
better for me, But I still feel horrible about what
you're going through, and I kind of think you might
need a shrink after this to help you cope with
all the emotional damage that will be left. But I
know you're strong enough to get through this, so don't worry.
I don't hate you, I'm not upset. We aren't it ends.
I don't want anything bad to happen to you. I
(53:40):
love you and miss you, even if I can't hang
with you anymore Audrey, and then her response, you're getting
teared up because you're remembering someone you thought you knew, right.
Rachel's response, there's just a few heres, let me get
through them. Thank you for explaining, Rachel says to you,
don't worry about me either. I'm going to be fine.
(54:01):
I'm getting closer and closer to God, and I was
just getting this feeling that life is going to be very,
very short. I'm not here for myself anymore. I'm here
to fulfill God's purpose, and I'm ready to do it
as soon as possible, so he'll take me to the
next life when I'm done. Through all of this, I'm
realizing love in all its shapes and forms and depth.
(54:23):
And I just wanted you to know that I love you.
If you ever need something, just let me know. That
is if you can deal with me being completely exited
in having one track mind, I think only of my
Christian God, his salvation plan, presence, et cetera. As I
remember you've had enough of that, laugh out loud, love
(54:44):
you just the same. I only wish the best for
you as well. Love in Christ, Rachel. The next response.
The next text was from you to Rachel, saying, well,
if you're sincere in your sudden love of God, then
I applaud you, and I hope it doesn't disappear once
you're feeling better, and you shouldn't be wishing to die
so soon. That won't make anyone happy. And that statement
(55:08):
sounds super suicidal. And I believe in God. It's just
that I don't believe in your Christian God and the
necessity to believe in Jesus for salvation. And I'm turned
off by zealous who professed to be a loving Christian
and full of Christ's love and then stand there damning
everyone to hell and all who are full of hate.
(55:29):
But I have something against anyone who is full of
that much hate. Also, I'm a very spiritual person. We
just have different beliefs. I have become closer to God
and no longer practice witchcraft and have started to take
the next step of converting. Blessed be Audrey. That was
the last text that you sent to Rachel in June.
(55:49):
So let's talk about that exchange. Well, that was when
I was dating my Jewish boyfriend and I was seriously
considering converting to cheats. M didn't happen, but I digress. Um,
So yeah, she The funny thing is why I said, like,
if you're serious about it, it's one thing. But we
(56:11):
rarely ever had any talks about Jesus or God or religion.
And I don't ever remember her even going to church.
Like I knew her parents did. I knew they were
like a wholesome Christian family air quotes, But God never
(56:33):
ever seemed like a part of her life or never
entered into your conversation God conversation, this subject of God
and how she's following the Lord and is a performance exactly,
it's it's it's so fake because I know she would
(56:54):
never actually I feel like that that was so so
it sounds to you as if maybe there's a reason
that all of a sudden she has found God. Of course,
because everybody loves somebody who suddenly found the big Man
in the sky and is deeply devout in having all
(57:16):
of a sudden like, oh now I'm a Christian and
I have morals because I love Jesus, which is not
loving Jesus doesn't make you have morals. It doesn't, you know,
like and it certainly doesn't give you a pass from
planning murders exactly, friends or and it it's I know
(57:39):
it's fake. I know that she knows people are reading
what she's writing. And so everybody likes a good redemption
story of somebody who was a terrible, horrible person who
all of a sudden found spirituality and divine inspiration. And
is I'm such a good person now and I was
(58:01):
so terrible and I found the error of ways, but
please look at me, how wonderful I am. That certainly
sounds like that's the script exactly. So so you read
through it. You you certainly read through it. And so
now you said there was there was some phone call,
because you did have another exchange with her, very brief.
(58:23):
But in between those exchanges there was a phone call.
There was a random phone call. Um, I was at
hooka night with some friends, and I remember, because I was,
I walked outside because it was loud, and I remember thinking,
my god, she lives awfully close to here, and and
(58:43):
my first thought was, oh, God, did she drive by
and see me or something, you know, having a cigarette,
you know, and like she lived down the streets, so
if she saw me outside smoking a cigarette, that was
like did she see me? Is that why she's calling me?
Or anyway, And at that point, you of course knew
about the murders, She just didn't know her outside and
(59:05):
then but I'm saying, at that point in time, you
knew about the murders, you knew Dan was arrested for them,
you just didn't know her role. Yeah, but yeah, it
was still very much as she was the innocent party,
no involvement, and it was all Dan's sort of thing.
I feel sorry for me because I was duped. But yeah,
and she called me to say how you doing, and
(59:29):
told me that she had a really weird experience because
I know she knew I would believe it, going back
the whole witchcraft thing. Um. And she said she she
was with her boyfriend and they were like hanging out.
She met somebody knew and he was basically like, Hey,
(59:53):
I have this weird inkling to take you somewhere. I
feel this really weird calling. Let's go for a drive
sort of thing. And they got into the car, and
he took her to the Elderado Nature Center, and she
said she started to cry and was like, why would
you take me here? Why would why would you bring
me here? And he's like, well, I just felt like
(01:00:16):
I had to. There was just like something drawing him
to bring her there, because he had no idea about
her or anything that had happened. And so she told
him what had happened, and he's like, oh, okay, well
that's why I felt called to bring you here. You know.
She told him what happened, but she didn't tell him
about the spreading of the body parts there, so she
(01:00:38):
he when he brought her there, he had no idea
and everything. And then when they were there, she shared
everything and how he was like, well, you know, I'm
a medium. That's why I was drawn here, and I
want you to know that. Uh M says it's not
(01:01:01):
your fault. And too, he's in a good place, he's
in heaven and not to cry for him and that
sort of thing. Wow. Yeah, And and she she said
that she didn't talk to anybody else about it because
nobody else would believe her except for me. Because I'm
(01:01:26):
spiritual and I feel in tune to that sort of stuff,
And so of course she would tell me because I
would believe her. Whether the story is true, who knows.
What did you say to her? The first of all,
she called and answered the phone because I had those
the text messages. I had told her, if you need me,
you can text me or call me and I'll pick
(01:01:46):
up and I'll talk to you. But I can't hang
out with you. I can't be around you. I just
can't do it. And so she called me and I
picked up, and I mean, this is a couple of
months after and So's arrest. Yeah, yeah, a couple of
after Dan's arrest. I think it was I really don't
know close out to fall, I think, But what did
(01:02:08):
you say on the phone when she told you that?
I think for me, I was still kind of processing,
like do I believe this? Do I not believe this?
Like wow, are you serious? And he didn't know about
this beforehand? And he said that to you and she's
like yeah, you know, and like that Sam was okay
and not to cry about him, and you know, I
(01:02:29):
was like, wow, that's that's really powerful. That's crazy. She
said that Sam said it's not your fault like that,
Like she shouldn't be worried because he's in heaven. And
but I think that's poker talk for a tell for
her to say. And he said, it's not your fault,
like she's trying to convince you that she's in a sentence,
(01:02:52):
did she say who the guy was that took her there?
She didn't give the name of the guy because she
didn't know him. She just met him. And that's odd
enough to get in someone's car that you don't even know. Yeah, exactly,
that's what I'm thinking too. But at the same time, well,
it's Rachel and she's completely reckless, so she totally would
do that. So so let me just say in in
(01:03:16):
conclusion that you had amazing instincts. I say it again,
and I want to just read to you these final
two emails that you did receive during it was January.
It was Rachel had retained her first attorney for the
(01:03:39):
charges that she was arrested and charged November with. In fact,
that time it was three felony counts of accessory after
the fact. And this is what Rachel sent to you. Hey, Han,
I'm sorry to have to bug you and ask you this,
but I kind of need to have my lawyer call
you at some point so she can chat with you
(01:04:00):
to see if we need you to testify in my
court case. I know you weren't really around right when
everything happened with Psycho, but it seems like since they
don't have anything against me, the trial is just going
to turn into a character assassination against me to make
a jury believe I'm the type of person that would
have been involved, So having people who knew me well
(01:04:21):
at the time might be really relevant. I don't have
your number anymore, so if you could message it to me,
I won't bother you, but just pass it on to
my lawyer, or if you want to text it to
me and I'm my number is still the same. And again,
sorry to have to bother you. I hope it's not
too much to ask. Hope all is well with you.
Love you and miss you, and you responded back almost immediately, Hon,
(01:04:44):
I love you, but I can't I can't be a
good character witness because I wasn't around you when you
guys decided to do drugs. I bailed. I don't know
how those drugs might have affected your personality went on them,
so I can't say what you would be like and emotionally,
it's still too much for me to deal with. I
know things have been hard on you, and I'm sorry
(01:05:05):
for everything you've gone through and I wish you the best. Yeah,
so she haunted you all these years in some way,
you do kind of always look over your shoulder. Do
you believe Rachel's role in the murders is much more
than what she was charged with? Uh? Yeah, I feel
(01:05:27):
that she definitely knew more than she let on that
it was a lie. You know, when when she was
on Dr Phil. I remember when she was enacting classes
and we would talk about acting in theater and everything.
I remember her once telling me that having open eyes
(01:05:48):
and blinking a lot portrayed innocence. Okay, fast forward to
Dr Phil show and she is dow in the head like, well,
I don't know, well, why don't you do this? I
know her well enough to know that I know she's
lying right there. She's doing that, I think because she
(01:06:11):
told that's what she does want it. And I was like,
oh my god, she's she's doing I think I knew it,
like she's so. After Dan was arrested for murdering Sam
Harry and Julie Cabluishi. You called Rachel Yes, after my
work shifter, or maybe it was on my lunch break.
(01:06:31):
I don't know, but when I first found out, I
called her immediately and I was like, oh my god, Rachel,
I just heard you know. Of course I was very concerned.
I only stopped talking to her three weeks ago. And
she basically was like, what the hell does it matter
to you? You're only talking to me because you want
to be famous, because you want to be connected to me,
(01:06:55):
and you want your fifteen minutes of fame, basically accusing
me of being some limelight chaser? Are you serious? Do
you really think that of me? And she's like yeah,
And I'm like okay, well by and I hung up.
So she was already I'm going to be famous? Yeah,
(01:07:15):
she she you know, she's like, you just want She
was accusing you of what she was looking forward to. Yeah,
she you know that I was going to try to
steal her limelight or something. I don't know. Being famous
for being friends with a murderer is not a good thing.
I was like, no, I don't care. I was like,
(01:07:37):
I'm sorry, I was just trying to be nice. Goodbye.
You know that brings up something that reminds me of
an equivalent situation. When she was arrested, family and church
and friends raised the bond for the bail to get
her out, and she had a little press conference, and
(01:07:59):
I guess later that night she was calling her friends,
telling her friends, do you hear them? They're calling me
an actress? Oh? My god, of course. And I'm thinking, gosh, like,
wouldn't you be more concerned about that you were going
to marry this person that that killed and chopped up
(01:08:20):
your friends? Like, instead, you're thinking, do you hear what
they're calling me? They're calling me an actress? Absolutely? She
just she wants attention. She wants it's not it's because
fame brings attention and the love and adoration of fans,
and that's what she wants. She wants everybody to love
(01:08:41):
her and admire her, and I think the world of
her and give her stuff. What Rachel forgot was there's
a big difference between fame and infamy, right, It's like, Oh,
do you really want to be famous for that? No? No,
you doubt But I mean, can you imagine, I mean,
you got out in the nick of time? Gosh, I did,
I really really did really did so so blessed and
(01:09:09):
fortunate to listen to my gut instincts and yeah, yeah, relief,
It is a lot of relief. It's happiness that I'm alive,
that I didn't get involved in something broke. Yeah, yeah,
(01:09:33):
my friend, thank god, you're so broke, you know, like
you're alive because you're broke, and I'm happy about that.
And I was like, yeah, I've never been more happy
to be poor too. Um, the whole thing must feel
so surreal to you. It does, it really does it.
I can't even describe it. It feels like I'm watching
(01:09:56):
a play and I'm interacting with it, but I'm not
part of it. But I'm part of the audience. That's right.
Maybe you're that narrator on the side that right. Then
this is Rachel slapped Dan across the face and yelled
at him. You could see the blood rage and Dan's
(01:10:16):
eyes as he shook her, and he looked over to
me and said, you take care of her. I'm done
and walked away. Seen Audrey, I want to thank you
so much for your time. It really means a lot
to hear your insights. You certainly knew her as a
friend better than most, and thank you for for being
so open and honest and willing to come on. Yeah,
(01:10:39):
no problem. Absolutely tune in next week to Sleuth and
meet three new guests who will regale you with their personal,
firsthand account of their twisted Rachel Buffett tails. Daniel Hulkyard,
(01:11:05):
Kristen Crane, and Ashley Mathis will each exclusively revealed to Sleuth.
They're shocking and unique Rachel Buffett encounters. If you enjoyed
this episode of Sleuth, share it with a friend and
be sure to leave a rating or review. Follow Sleuth
on I Heart Radio, or subscribe wherever you listen to
(01:11:27):
podcasts so that you never miss an episode
Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language.
Rachel did find a sex tape of Dan cheating with
his former girlfriend, Brittany Boudre. I'm sure that would piss
her off, and that is just a few weeks before
the murders. Welcome to Sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. This week
(00:36):
we sit down with one of Rachel and Dan's closest
inner circle friends, Audrey McVeigh. Audrey said she was the
couple's third wheel for nearly four years before Daniel Wazniak
murdered his neighbor Sam Hair along with Sam's friend and tutor,
Julie Kubuishi. The stories you'll hear from Audrey provide a
(00:57):
window into a bizarre, alcohol and drug fueled existence, a
world that made up Dan and Rachel's shocking, law breaking lifestyle.
I wanna welcome Audrey McVeigh to Sleuth. Thank you so
much for being here. I want to tell our listeners
that Audrey was a long term friend, actually probably one
(01:19):
of the longest friendships that Rachel had prior to the murders.
I believe that Audrey correct me if I'm wrong. You
met her in the fall of two thousand six when
you both attended Long Beach Community College, right, and you
were in the theater department. I was doing technical theater,
doing makeup and costumes, and she was doing acting. So
(01:43):
we didn't have many classes that coincided together, but we
did work on a show together, and that's how you
initially met. And well, I know you had shared with
me when we had interviewed a couple of years back
that she was sort of awkward socially, that people had
very different opinions of her. So share with us because
(02:06):
I know she was homeschooled, right, Yeah, that was a
huge red flag for everybody at theater. Everybody was always like, oh, well,
she she's weird because she was homeschooled. You know, It's
very like, oh that that was just the excuse everybody
had for her weird quirkiness. Is, Well, she was homeschooled.
(02:26):
She doesn't know how to properly interact between people, and
she says weird things and she does weird things, and
she just doesn't know better. So that's how that's the
past that she got. Yeah, basically like she doesn't know better,
She doesn't know anything. Now with some though I think
you said some of some of the students. Some of
(02:47):
your friends would say, Oh, they thought she was really
standoffish and arrogant. They perceived it as more of that
she was into herself. I mean, yes, she is, but
I that you gave her the benefit of the doubt,
but some people didn't. Yes, yeah, definitely. I always like
(03:08):
to give people the chance. Well, you know when I remember,
because I just started theater there and she and some
other girls there, they just they were having so much fun,
and I was like, oh, I wanna be their friends.
I want to be part of that. So I like
basically introduced myself and its theater. So I said, hey,
(03:29):
I'm Andre you guys look like you're having fun. I
want to be your friend basically, and they're like, oh, yeah,
be our friend. So I just started hanging out with them,
and I mean, he's so much fun with her. I
mean we hung out three times a week, maybe more,
I don't know, two to four days a week. That's
a lunch time to hang out with somebody. We just
(03:49):
had so much fun together, you know, when we were
like chain smokers and we don't know, we're just going out.
We have fun, lot of fun. You had a lot
of fun. You guys definitely managed to drink some fine
wines and and there was there was a little bit
of sticky fingers going on at certain points of your
(04:11):
relationship with her, And that was just part of the
college sort of let's see how we could push the
envelope and and and do some things that maybe now
we go back and say, we're not going to talk
to our kids about No, no, not at all, be
but you, but you had a lot of fun doing it.
And I do want to just mention a couple of
(04:32):
the things just because quite frankly, she's this little thing
and I've always found it so incredulous that when you
said to me she even stole her bridesmaids dresses, I'm like,
how did she even hide them? Well, I mean she
did carry a big purse, you know, But and I mean,
(04:52):
to be honest, these rides maid dresses they weren't something
you would buy it David Bridle. They weren't full with
tool and thickness. They were slinky, little summer cocktail dresses
that were blue like with that like kind of chiffon
lace or whatever, and so they were slinky and thin
(05:13):
and stuff like that. They weren't ridemaide dresses in the
four Yeah, they were very slinky dresses could be rolled
up into a ball about the size of half a
basketball or cantaloupes like they could. But she got all
four of them. Music, Yes she did. And I know
(05:36):
that you also said that meals food alcohol. I mean
sometimes you'd wait in the car and Dan would come out.
So Dan would say, go to the car, and all
of a sudden he'd come out with a basketfull of
I didn't realize that they had such money problems because
I thought Dan was a manager out of Horizon and Sanamnica.
That's what I was told, you know, that's what they
(05:58):
said that they did because he did work at the
Verizon on Bellflower and Long Beach. You thought support college student.
I was working part time going to school full time.
I was broke as how Rachel and I would split
packs of cigarettes. In fact, I think you told me
the one thing that she was bummed about was she
couldn't figure out how to steal cigarettes. She stole everything
else but could get Yes, exactly, there was no way
(06:21):
to steal cigarettes. So Dan would always pay for drinks
because I'd go out and they're like, oh, do you
want to drink, and I was like, I don't have
any money. They're like, okay, well we'll buy you one.
I'm like, okay, you can buy me one, but I'm
not going to waste my own money on drinks because
I don't really care that much about alcohol. And so,
and I was always the d D. I always drove everybody.
(06:41):
So I never was like, which if a couple a D,
it was this couple. They really didn't need their own duty.
So let's start off with some of those stories, because
I'd like to really focus in on the time that
Dan came into the picture. I mean, because you really were,
in fact, you've referred to your self to me is
the third wheel, and you didn't mind it because you
(07:03):
really were enjoying yourself and having just wheel. But you
said I was a third wheel and it didn't bother
me because they never made me feel that way. Yeah, no,
they didn't know. Yeah, So when you first met him,
it was when you went to I think she was
in rehearsal and on a a play at Golden West.
That's when they first met each other, right, Yes, but
(07:23):
I remember her telling me about him and how he
was pursuing her and wanted to date her, and she
was very like, I don't know, I don't know, but
he's persistent, and I think she liked being chased. You
definitely liked being chased. So she eventually acquiesced and started
(07:47):
dating him. And what were your first impressions of him?
He was nice and cordial and very friendly and and
you did you have a nice time did he did
he seem pretty harmless? Did he seem did he show
any kind of signs of a temper? The very very
first time I met him, I mean we were dropping
(08:09):
something off at the college, and um, there wasn't very
much interaction. I mean it was like five minutes. But
she then pointed out to you, that's the gentleman that's
interested in Yeah. So, I mean we were talking about
him on the way there. She's like, Okay, so you're
gonna meet Dan blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Okay.
So but then, I mean obviously your time with him grew.
(08:32):
I mean you spent quite a bit of time with him,
and and what were what were your feelings about him?
I mean, did you did you care about him? Did
you enjoy his company as much as Rachel or did
you feel like you had a Warren Rachel about him?
What give us your overall sense of what you felt
about him? He was he was nice, and he was
(08:52):
charismatic and um fun loving and he liked he liked
to see enact. And we did get along. We had
a lot of TV shows we liked and we would
talk about that and which were those? Family Guy and
they tried. He was obsessed with Lost and so they
(09:13):
tried to get me to watch that, and they watched
like the first couple of episodes. I was like, Nah,
it's not my cup of tea, but thanks, And we
just had fun drinking and talking about movies and TV
shows and theaters and uh Rachel and I would just
sing all the time. I have a bad stage, right,
so I only went up like twice ever go sing.
(09:36):
But are you talking about like karaoke? Yes, karaoke, But
when it was just us, it was different. I would
sing with them. And I remember this one time we
went caroling. They had the Seal Beach Christmas Parade and
her brother had the wine the wine No, they didn't
have the wine bar yet? Was it just the cruise
(09:57):
the way? Yeah? And what was that that was cruise around. Yeah,
it was a cruise around Naples, and they served wine
and cheese and crackers to people and just kind of
took them on a little romantics who are around Naples
and stuff. But they were promoting the wine the company.
And then they have a like a little store outside,
(10:17):
like once you finish the cruise, if you liked the wine,
you could buy the wine somewhere. Yeah, they that's when
they started the the bar bar. Yeah. Yeah, roughly around
the time that I and how smart you were. Honestly,
I think of all the people in this story, I'm
going to give you the crown of having the best
(10:38):
instincts at the most opportune time. We're talking one week
before the murders, right, yeah, yeah, so before we get there,
I don't want to skip ahead, and I'd love to
hear some of the times where you really got a
sense of who Dan was and the and the relationship
he had with Rachel. I mean, I remember Ray will
(11:00):
really like to drink. I don't know. I just thought
it was really stupid that they wanted to get married
so because she was under twenty one at the time,
they wanted to get married so that they could go
on a cruise together so that she could legally drink
on the cruise because she could drink on the cruise
if she was married to him or something, right, because
she was twenty at the time. That's a dumb reason
(11:22):
to get married like this, Well about dumb resons. How
about dumb reasons to murder people to go on a cruise.
But the point of that, you you drink booze here
all the damn time, like what they really everything everything
was at the moment. Yes, when I came back from Texas,
(11:45):
the first trip we did is we went to the
Catalina wine mixer and it was it was a lot
of fun. We um, of course, you know, you get
drunk and we would we would just dancing in the sand.
It was so much fun, like all as like me
and uh Noah and Nate, who are Rachel's older brothers. Yeah,
(12:08):
but we were just all dancing and the sand and
the sun, drinking wine, eating sausages. And then we went
back towards the I don't know why. They started fighting,
so she kind of chased after him. Yeah, so she
went after him, and then about two hours later they
(12:32):
both came back and they were like grumbling, and I
mean Dan, Dan has always been very apologetic. I noticed
even in interviews when he even told the cops. He's like,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry I lied to you, you know.
A he's always been very genuine and sincere when he's like,
I really apologize. That's just I was gonna say. Whether
(12:55):
he means it or not, I don't know. After that,
it was fine and we just and then we had
just had way to make it, wipe it and wipe
it away, you know, all the all the the whole fight.
Whatever happened, however they fixed it, I don't know, but
I swear to God once they started drinking, everything was
fine when they were sober, and then when they started drinking,
they just so would you say, would it be apt
(13:18):
to describe it as when you were with them if
the drinking just kept going, that's when it would start
turning dark. So let's talk about one of those instances
when it started going dark. One night, Dan and Rachel.
It was their anniversary and I think Bryan remember year month.
(13:42):
Can you give us a time frame before the d
U I, after the d U I, before the d
U I. So we're in two thousand nine, August of
two tho nine was the d U I right, yeah,
yeah so sometimes because I remember it was the summertime
(14:03):
and Dan said that he went to glenn Ivy or
something to get a certificate and something about Katie being involved,
Like Rachel thought he was cheating on that was a
girlfriend's girlfriend. Yeah, and she was really piss because she
(14:26):
knew Dan was lying to her and she was furious.
And what is glenn Ivy Just because glenn Ivy is
one of those day spas where you go and there's
um you pay like sixty bucks and needed to use
their pool and their son and their jacuzzi and their
mud bath and all of those things. So he was
like it was supposed to be a surprise in blah
(14:47):
blah blah blah blah. And Dan would tell me things
in confidence that he was planning to tell Rachel just
so it could be me vouching for Dan. Yeah, well
Dan did say that, you know, That's what he did
tell me, So you know me, I'm just I don't
you're taking at face value automatically assume people are gonna
(15:10):
lie to me. I just I automatically assume, Well, I
think you're telling me the truth, because I can't think
of a possible reason to lie to me. And honestly,
even if you were cheating on Rachel, that's your problem,
your business. Yeah. So, so they had a big blowout fight,
and I I was always the one who was left
(15:32):
taking care of them, left taking care of Rachel when
ship bad stuff happened, when fights or whatever, or she
got too drunk. It was always, Audrey, you take care
of her. And actually said that to me multiple times. Okay, Audrey,
I'm done. She's your responsibility. You take her home. I'm
(15:52):
done with her. You deal with her. And I'm like,
why do I have to do it? He's like, because
you're the best friend, you gotta deal with her. Was
almost like I don't want to deal with her. You
deal with fighting, Like who wants to have to do? Right?
So do you want to come on? It was like
taking care of you know, they say babies are drunk adults.
(16:14):
You know, drunk adults are just like babies, falling all
over the place, vomiting everywhere, and it's just a pain
in the butt because you have to carry them and
they're heavy. But she so, she was totally trashed and
we were at a bar, called Tracy's. It was across
the street from Dan's work when he worked at Verison,
and I didn't want to leave her alone. She refused
(16:38):
to get into my car. I took her She had
been drinking. So she had been drinking. She was holy trashed,
and so I took her keys because I'm like, you're
not driving home. You're not gonna get into my car.
And amount how much I pushed and shove because she's
a she's a scrappy fighter, she is, and I was like,
I don't know what to do with you. So I
went into kind of a mom mode, and I'm like,
(16:58):
you're gonna go into your car and you're gonna sit
there and you're gonna lock the doors and you're gonna
go to sleep, and I'm gonna be watching you in
my car to make sure you don't leave, because I
know you. And she's like fine, And so she went
into your car and I had her car keys and
then I swear to god, I looked away for like
five seconds. I don't know how she did it. The
(17:19):
doors ever opened, she didn't, I don't I don't know
how she did it. She got out of the car.
I didn't notice at all. And then I was waiting
for her to leave, and I was like, why hasn't
she tried to sneak out and leave yet? She should
have tried already. So I went over and she wasn't
(17:40):
in the car, and I was like, what the hell?
And so I think, yeah, he's like, Rachel is here
scaling my vents and scaling the wall of my house
and try and climb onto the pattio. I don't know
how she did it. She's like spider woman or something,
(18:01):
because she would wear these four inch heels climbing up
the drain pipe, up the wall and getting onto the balcony.
How the hell did you do that? So you obviously
weren't that far away from his house or no, it was.
It's probably about the drunk. She walked two miles to
(18:23):
the house, Yes, and she did it very She must
have been running, because how could she have gotten that
far in ten minutes? I mean she had to be,
because I mean to run a mile at least takes
like ten minutes. She must have been running. She must have.
(18:44):
So he called, and what did he ask of you?
Come and get her? Come and get her. She she's
pissing off my parents she's scaling the wall. My mom
is furious. The senior wasnia X didn't care for her
that far as I knew. They didn't like Rachel. Do
you know the reasons why? I thought it was because
(19:05):
she wasn't Catholic. That's what I was told, Like, Oh,
she wasn't Catholic, she's homeschooled, her parents are poor. She's
not good enough for you. It's really is what it was,
you know, like, she's not good enough for day Um.
Did you ever hear them say anything like that about Rachel?
(19:27):
I mean my interaction with her, his parents, it was
probably less than five ten minutes. But getting back, so
that was that the night because I know there was
a story when we talked about you know, you said
you had some fun times and not so fun times.
So after that it was Dan and Rachel and his
(19:48):
cousin Justin and me and Dan. You know, I was like,
I can't get her into my car. What the hell
am I supposed to do? How do you want me
to make her leave? I can't make her leave, and
we have to do something about her car. And because
you drove, you drove over by the bar. So it
(20:09):
was like, well, she can't drive. So Dan drove her
in his car because she would get into the car
with Dan, and then I drove with Justin Justin Brown, yeah,
Dan's cousin. And then we went to that apartment that
looks like a front you know, Okay, that's Noah Noah
(20:32):
Innates place that they That came up quite a bit
in the trial because because the detectives had to say
we weren't prepared for a formal interview with Dan and
Rachel because we thought we were walking into a storefront.
We didn't realize that people were living there. That's when
they to Dan and Rachel totally changed it around. So
(20:53):
getting back to and so Dan, they took Rachel back
to that La place and Justin and I were still
sitting in my car because we were just Dan was
trying to get her into the apartment and trying to
get her unload her and he was just having difficulty
(21:14):
and finally got her in, and Rachel likes to check people.
She was like, okay, I'll do it for a little while. Okay,
I'm back, So she went inside for a few minutes
and Dan came out and it was going to be like, Okay,
I'm going home and Justin's going to jump into dance
car go home with him. And then we all knew
to wait because we all knew Rachel was going to
(21:35):
come back out, because that's what she does. Of course,
she came back out and Dan put her back in,
and then Dan was in the car and she she
ran back out again, and she was yelling at him,
and she was at the front of his car, hands
and she's like, you're not gonna leave, You're not gonna leave,
blah blah. They're just yelling at each other, and Dan
(21:57):
released the brakes and like, that's where was she where
they were in the middle of the street. No, but
where was physically with where she was standing in front
of the car. To standing in front of the car,
he released the race kind of tapped on almost sort
of suggesting I'm about to run run you over. Yes, yes,
(22:17):
he hit He literally hit her, I mean not hard,
but she's like your card hell broke. I'm just like,
oh my god, Justin when I were sitting in the car,
like oh, can we go home yet? And this time
for good she went. That's who she went in. So
so this time it was her leaving him, not him
(22:40):
pushing her away. You know, this was her tricks. Gonn.
Was that the only time you saw their fight erupt
into something pretty physical? No? Um. Once we were at
his place, his parents place, and we were playing pool
and drinking wine and they got into a fight. I
(23:01):
don't remember what about. And if you don't remember, those
reasons to sound like a pretty petty nothing specific. Yeah,
they were all very petty. A lot of it was
jealousy or who was jealous of whom. Rachel was always
angry because Dan's he was friends, he was still friends.
(23:24):
She didn't like that, you know, she needs to be
the center of attention, and so she slapped him and
he shook her and slapped him in the face. She
slapped him in the face, and he grabbed her and
shook her and was like going over hit me again,
(23:44):
And he looked at me. He was like, you guys
need to leave. Take her out, Audrey, take her out
to me, like you're the nanny. Yes, no, I was.
I used to say that all the time. I'm I'm
their babysitter. What the heck? Like, I'm not. I'm not
a babysitter and my friend, I'm not your d d.
I'm your friend. Did she ever give you any indication
(24:07):
that how how she truly felt about him, what her
real feelings were for him. There was this one night
they I didn't go out with them. They went to
a wine bar on Pine Street in downtown Long Beach
and she called me because they had had a fight,
(24:29):
and she called me from some like I don't remember
if she called me from her cellphone or not. I
don't but I went down. There was late at night,
and I picked her up, and I'm like, why aren't
you wandering the streets of downtown Long Beach at midnight?
What the hell is wrong with you? She had like
zero regard for her safety. She felt she could just
(24:50):
walk wherever. And that's another story. But yeah, she was
just like I don't know if I should say in
the relationship or not. And I was like, well, do
you love him or do you want to work it out?
And she's like, I don't know, I don't know. And
so it's very like I didn't want to give her
advice because I feel like it's not my place to
(25:11):
make the decision whether somebody should stay in the relationship
or not. But I was like, well, think about this,
think about that, Like how much. Do you love him?
Do you want to spend more time with them? Do
you want to work things out? Are you sticking tired
of him? At that time? Are they living in Noah's
because they went from I know at one point they
went from staying at Noa's and it was just so tight,
(25:33):
so many people there too. That's when they moved into
the Campton Martinique in Costa Mesa. So during this time
where she was really questioning things, was that when they
were living at Noah's place. I think so, Yeah, I
think so, I think yeah. So that was probably putting
pressure on their relationship too, I mean yeah, but I
(25:54):
mean she was because Noah actually put himself on the least.
They had such a bad credit because they had no
money and they had been evicted from another place in
Long Beach, and so Noah put his name on on
the lease, probably to say, look, guys, maybe the best
thing is for you to move on and get a
place of your own. And actually Valentine's Day, ever, is
(26:17):
when they moved into the Camdens. I think it sounds
like they were both kind of questioning each other as
far as do they will is this something they want
to do? For the long haul. Definitely, I felt like, right, yeah,
I always felt that Rachel kind of had one foot
out the door. You know, I never ever once thought
(26:39):
that their marriage would ever last. You're not interesting, um,
because I don't know. I just felt that if Rachel
met somebody who was hotter, or richer and better looking,
she would leave. And you know, she did find she
did find a sex tape of Dan on with a
(27:01):
former girlfriend. I'm sure that would kiss her off. And
that was just a few weeks before the murders. Did
she ever mention Brittany Boo dre and so he described
it to her when she found it, which, by the way,
it was sitting right next to the gun in the
little fire safe in their bedrooms. So interesting how she
could have found the sex tape but didn't know about
(27:23):
a gun. She she told her friends the night he
was arrested at his bachelor party for accessory after the
fact is the police thought he was helping Sam hiding Sam.
She she told her friends at Dave Barnhardt's apartment, one
of the guys at the Camden, that she didn't know
Dan had a gun. But meanwhile, the sex tape was
(27:44):
right next to the gun in this very small little
safe they had in the bedroom. But he described it
to her, Oh, I taped this so that I can
extort the family for money. That's how he explained it
away sex tape, like while they were when they were engaged.
(28:05):
So um, and that family is actually coming on the
podcast in a future episode. And they considered him family.
They considered him like a son. They would take him
on cruises. Their daughter dated him for a good two
years and uh or nearly two years. So the idea
that he was contemplating doing that, which I don't think
(28:26):
he ever would. They said he never asked them for money,
and that was never and he they were mom and
dad to him that he was. He'd come there, come
and go as he pleased, and even kept a relationship
with him after he broke up with Brittany. So but
for her to hear that explanation and go oh, okay,
like I mean, that's basically she she described it to police,
(28:47):
so matter of fact, it was as if she explained
it away and she was she was okay with it right,
like she was behind and supportive. Well, I mean, basically
any way to get money. I have a friend who
said Audrey I've never been so happy that you're so poor.
That's although very scary, very scary, and also very sad
because they did find or Dan at least found a target.
(29:12):
I want to talk about now these texts because you
you you, as I've said to you earlier, I'm giving
you the crown for the best instincts of the bunch,
because you decided as this relationship was starting to unravel,
you know, you felt that it was getting more and more, um,
I don't know, in a dark place that you were
(29:33):
just not comfortable anymore. You felt that maybe in some
way your safety was threatened because you had a conversation
with her at the pool one day. Yeah, I was
at a friend's birthday and she she um, brought up
ecstasy and I was like, why did you do that? Like,
(29:56):
I didn't everythink that that's something that you would do.
Our vice was wine and cigarettes and that was it.
And she told me that at her bachelorette party, which
hadn't happened yet. Just just for clarification, you were going
to be one of the bridesmaids, one of the four bridesmaids. Correct, Yes, yes,
I was, so she You're having this conversation at the
(30:18):
pool so and she said that she um. She jokingly
said that she wanted to slip a pill into my
drink so that I would know how it feels to
be on ecstasy on ecstasy because oh it's great and
it's wonderful and I would love it and I should
(30:39):
just try it once. And I was like, no, I'm good,
I don't you don't want But she made that joke
and I was like, no, don't do that, like like,
why would you even suggest it? And she's like, I'm
just kidding, and yes it does. Because Rachel jokes about
a lot that they and does them. She's that type
(31:02):
of person. She'll say one thing and do something else.
And to me to how somebody like her say that
she would slip me a pill and I was like, well,
I would notice, and she's like, no, you wouldn't. I
would do it when you weren't looking. And I was like,
oh my god, she really so you really? Yeah, this
(31:23):
person has it in their mind already that her bachelor
she totally wants to drug me. She probably wants to
do drugs at her bachelotte, and she probably thinks everybody
else would totally be fine for it, except for me.
I don't know. Now, when she's telling you this in
the pool, did you get the sense at that point, Oh,
she's already tried it, she already has. I felt really uncomfortable.
(31:47):
I just just something that maybe that's something collected. She
was going to the next level and you didn't want
to go with you. I'm like, so you're doing a
bunch of drugs now, right, And that was just a
place she didn't want to go. No, no, and never
never know. And then when she was leaving the party,
(32:08):
they hit my car because this was when they were
going to rehearsals, you know, for nine for nine, And
she backed up and hit my car and I heard it.
I was like, what the hell? And then oh, dude,
we hit your car, but don't worry. We didn't done
to or anything. Did they know they didn't my car,
but they still hit it. I'm like, so that was
(32:29):
that was one of the bad days. Yes, I mean
I could look back and laugh now, but at the time,
I was like, what the hell, guys, But that's really
when your instincts kicked in. Yeah, And I just I
feel really, really uncomfortable. It's time for me to distance myself.
I think that was like on a Friday. So how
(32:49):
did you how did you break ties? How did that happen?
So it was here, you were going to be at
her wedding and her brought one of her bridesmaids and
you had been with them together for so long. Tell
us about the hot tub story. When you had met Sam.
It was at Camden and we were just all hanging
(33:10):
out around the pool and the jacuzzis, I want to say,
they were Twe went over to talk to like Dan
and all the boys, and Dan was talking to everybody
about the d Y and Sam was but yeah, I
know he was there because that's when he did his
whole gorilla routine and that was just hysterical. And that
(33:32):
guerrilla routine was the Afghan story. Sorry, yeah, about how
he stopped he was drunk and he stopped traffic and
then pretending to be a gorilla and he just cars
and yeah, I just pantomizing the whole thing. It was
so funny, this hysterical. But then things got really serious
(33:52):
and then started through conversation, Dan complained about the d
Y and Um being in jail, in jail, and then
Sam talked about his jail time and you know other
people talked about bad things that they've gotten in trouble
with the law for whatever. Because I think Sam reacted
(34:15):
pretty strongly because as I spent two years, everybody was
like one day was the you know, like bashing them off,
like you're not your assissy, but oh please, one day
is nothing. But that's an important exchange because at that moment,
that's when Dan and Rachel found out about Sam's past
(34:36):
and that he was charged with murder at one point,
and I believe that's what started putting the target on
his back, which is really creepy to think that they
were planning something like that far ahead of time. Yeah,
so anyway, that happened when you were at the hot
tub with them, pretty crazy, right, Yeah, that's so? Was
(34:58):
that the was that the day you find he ended
things with them? Soon after that you said it was
a Sunday. I think it was like on a Sunday night. Um,
so that was Saturday. So then Sunday rolls around in
you and I. They went over there and Rachel disappeared
for a while, and I'm like, where's Rachel? And I
asked Dan and he's like, well, she probably went to
(35:20):
Gomi smoke a cigarette. Somewhere, but she didn't want you
to bum one off of her because she only had
one left and she didn't want to feel bad and
she didn't want to have to share it with you.
And I was like, oh, okay, I get that because
we're so broken. Cigarettes were expensive to us, you know, yeah, okay,
(35:41):
I get not wanting to share your last one of
your last two cigarettes with somebody if you can't afford
to buy another pack anytime soon. And I'm like okay.
So I went back inside and then Rachel appeared a
few minutes later, and she seemed a little off, but
she's probably just drunk again whatever. And then um, one
(36:07):
of our friends, she kind of leaned over and looked
at her and she's like, you're rolling, aren't you? And
I was like, what the fund is rolling? What does
that mean? What does what does that mean? And she's
like she's doing drugs and I was like what, And
Rachel denied it and then she was like so what
kind of like yeah, yeah I did. And I got upset.
(36:30):
I can't believe you do that. I can't believe you
would do them from me, not in front of me,
but just know how he drugged in front of me, basically.
So I went outside and I yelled it down. Rachel
is in there right now on drugs, and Dan was like,
what do you mean I hid that from her? She
shouldn't have been able to find it. She probably just
(36:51):
went upstairs to Via and got it from them. Wait
a second, you mean to tell me that you actually
bought jugs. You have them in your house and you're
saving them for a later date, to you actually consistently
using them. And he's like, you know what, after a
(37:13):
long day of work and stress and blah blah blah
blah blah, we just like to relax and unwind. Sometimes
you're you're you're actively doing drugs. Yeah, I forget what
the word was, oh, I said. I was like, so
you're condoning her actions. You're okay with her doing jugs
because you're doing jugs too, Great, Dan, jugs great? And
(37:35):
I yeah. I went back inside cried in the bathroom
for a bit. Rachel was came and was like, oh,
I'm so sorry. I didn't know that this would make
you so upset, and I was like, of course, it
makes me upset. You're doing drugs, like and I grabbed
my purse and I run outside and I just was
(37:59):
Dan was like, are you going? And she's drugged up.
You're condoning this action. I can't believe you're letting her
do this. And I just hopped the fence and I
ran off and Dan chase after me, and he was
angry because I always took Rachel's side and I was
being Rachel's friend and not his friend. And did you
(38:22):
feel threatened at that point? Yes. He hit me in
the arm and he was like, some fucking friend you are,
and he like hit me and I had my shoe
and I have perfect aim when i'm angry. Okay, let
me just tell you. And I knew that if I
threw it and I hit his head, he would come
turn around on me, and like, I still wanted to
(38:42):
hit him back, so I threw my shoe in the
middle of his back and he was, fuck, you, don't
come back. We don't want you here in my you know,
we don't want you in our life anymore. You're not
our friend. And I was like, that's fine. I don't
want to be friends with drugg ease. And I left,
but I couldn't actually leave because I was so emotionally distraught.
(39:03):
I was crying in my car and Rachel came back
to me, and you know, Rachel's like, oh, we're sorry.
And our friend was like, I made them throw all
the drugs away. I saw them flush it down the
or they flushed it down the toilet. Did you see
them flushed it down the Did you see I go
in the toilet? No, you didn't, and so they're probably lying.
But I was just so upset. I couldn't drive. Well,
(39:24):
you knew it was the end, yeah, And so I
went back inside. Yeah, I went back inside because I
couldn't d like you know, back um, and I I went.
I was just I just I couldn't drive. I was
(39:45):
too upset. And I went back in and Dan gave
me a side hug and he's like, I'm really sorry,
and I was like, apologize to me when you're sober.
And I walked away like I just yeah. I didn't
didn't like hug him either, but he put his arm
around me. I said, apologize when you're sober, because I
don't believe you. Yeah. In the morning, like Dan, Dan
(40:10):
had gone already because he had left for work. And
what work? What was he working? I think he was
working at Oh No, he wasn't working for a Rizon
he was. He just had that little happy hour he
was doing the happy Hour card and traveling around to
a bunch of places trying to sell them and whatever, um,
(40:32):
which apparently he wasn't. He was just out in Newport
Beach getting drunk or something at the beach or I
don't know that. So that's that's what I heard. I
heard that he wasn't he would sell them, but he
would use but yeah, yeah, he would use an his
excused to get out of the house because he didn't
want to Rachel to know that he wasn't making any
(40:53):
money and he was just selling those cards as best
as he could. But he was also just hanging out
of bars getting drunk with people while trying to sell
the cards. Did you ever have a sense because that
right at the that time when you were started, you know,
pulling back and breaking things off, that was at the
height of their financial stressful status where they were being evicted.
(41:17):
Did you did she magether being evicted and so so
she didn't. She didn't bring that up. Ever. They never
talked to me about their money issues ever. I mean, yeah,
they'd be like, oh, yeah, we're both broke because we're
college students. Of course we're broke, you know. But I
thought Dan had a job that paid enough to support them,
(41:37):
like to buy the rent. And you know, they just
kind of open the fridge, Violet said, when she had
opened the fridge, you could tell there's areay two things.
And yeah, there was never anything in the fridge. They
had more alcohol than that. It was always alcohol, and
it's like, oh, hey, there's cheese and a packet of
hot dogs and some catch out like yeah, yeah, they're
(42:02):
fus was empty, you know. Okay, So I want to
talk about So what was your final goodbye? I mean,
so that morning we were all sleeping in the living
room and she apologized and I said I love you
and goodbye, and I walked out and I left and
I never talked to her and never saw her again. Well,
I shouldn't say I never talked her. That's what we're
(42:24):
going I never. I never thought about because you did
talk to her a phone call as well as some texts.
So should we talk about the phone call first? Uh? Sure,
I'm like, which one? Well? Why are we talking the
order it happened? Yeah, let's do that. So tell me
which happened first, because I do have texts here that
(42:45):
were days after the murders MA, and then I have
other texts that were later on in twenty when she
had her first attorney, which was I leave. That's when
you got a whole another are asking you to be
a character in this. So I don't know where the
call lands in all of that, in the scheme of it,
(43:07):
after the text before the character witnessed. The first one
was a Monday May. I remember I was at the
gas station and she sent me in text asking me
to meet up. She wanted to meet up with me.
And now let's just let's just make it clear that
this was three days after the murders took place Friday
(43:30):
afternoon one, and then that evening actually at the turn
of midnight on the those were the two time frames
of the murders. And then she's calling you Monday, she's texting,
You were calling you, texting, texting, and I had no
idea about these. You had no idea about anything. So
you hadn't even heard any of the news that a
body was found in Sam's apartment. First thing I heard
(43:52):
about any of it was after Dan's arrest, when somebody
messaged me and asked me, Hey, why is Rachel and
Dan's wedding off. That's the first thing I've heard about it,
getting these texts at the guest is. Yeah, So, as
far as I knew, the wedding was still want and
she was asking me to um be her bride'smaid, and
(44:12):
she missed me, and she wanted me to come back.
She's asking you to please resume the role of always
were going to be a bridesmaid. And then she figured
when you said goodbye, and then when I said goodbye,
and um, she thought that meant you were out of
her wedding. Right, Yeah, she was out of her life.
I was. I was when I said good like I mean,
(44:34):
she might not have known, but when I said goodbye,
I knew that was my final goodbye. I'd love you
and goodbye. She knew that I was her letting out
of their friendship, that I didn't want to be her
friend again because I didn't want to be around any
of the drugs. So and I told her, I was like,
why don't you make one of your new friends your bride'smaids?
(44:54):
Like I'm not. I told her, I don't want to
be around drugs and stuff like that, make her when
if you're bridesmaids because I'm not going to do it.
I had such a I don't know how to describe it,
but it was in my stomach, in my gut, just
this like wrenching, like don't you even think about seeing her?
(45:16):
Because I mean I cared about her a lot, we
were very best friends. Loved her, Yeah, exactly, and I
just as much as, of course I would want to,
Oh you're you're hurting, of course, let me be there
for you. But it just it was not saying don't
even think about it, don't and it just that's what
(45:38):
they call it. Yeah, it was your body was if
I did I probably if I had said yes, I
probably would have vomited on the spot. That's how like
sick I felt. I was like, no, interesting that, Yes,
I was just so she was asking you in a
text to physically meet up. Yeah, she's let's meet up,
(45:59):
let's get cough. She's ship in my life has gone bad?
And did you ask what is she referring to? Know?
She's like, if you could see where my life is now,
I think I'm gonna I'm going to because you you
were kind enough to give them so how about if
I just read them real quickly to so, so it
(46:20):
was Monday PM. Hey, I know you're at work right now.
Do you want to get some coffee or something when
you're done, I'd like to talk. And then at nine
oh three pm, so you obviously didn't answer her right away.
I can throw someone else in as my bridesmaid, but
it's not going to be someone like you who I
wanted in the wedding. I'm just afraid that we're both
(46:42):
going to regret this. So should we try to work
this out and see if we're going to be friends
still now rather than later. I just feel hard if
we were able to work it out our differences and
then finding this out later, and you would have missed
my wedding, and then at Tuesday May at eleven oh
(47:03):
two am. All right, Well, I'd rather still rather you
be there rather than someone who hasn't been an amazing friend,
even though you cannot continue to be. My life has
been so fucked up and stressful. I'd rather not put
one of my quote unquote new friends. That would worsen things.
But if you feel that uncomfortable, I understand. So it
(47:25):
feels like maybe there was a missing text back from you. Yeah,
because that that for whatever reason you didn't we didn't
you didn't give to me. But and then it says,
I kind of she continues, and this is again the
next Tuesday morning, right, I mean it's the following Tuesday morning.
She's saying, kind of wish I had nothing to do
(47:45):
with my life right now. If you change your mind,
let me know today, or or if you can stand
to talk to me, I've called I could really use
and then she's Tuesday, this is the last text to
you on again to they made oh four am, I
could really use a friend in some advice one last time.
(48:08):
Thanks for all your love and friendship. You've been great.
In one of your texts back to Rachel, you said
you can text me, you can call me, but I
don't want to ever see you in person again. And
she sounded like she was saying that to you. She said,
if you only knew how fucked up my life lost
right now. And of course at the time, I was
(48:28):
just like, honey, it's just the wedding jitters, like it's okay,
call him the heck down. But you know, obviously afterwards,
looking back at that text, yeah, I really was fucked
up right back, like, oh, and so tell us then
how did you find out about the cancelation of the
weddings and his arrest? And so I was at work
(48:51):
and I was online on a website that connects all
your messaging programs, and my friend messaged me and said, hey,
did you know Rachel and Dan canceled their wedding? Do
what happened? Do you know why? And of course I
don't know why. I never got that email, and I
wasn't I'm not involved in the wedding anymore. And I
(49:13):
told them like, no, I don't talk to them at all.
They're like, you haven't talked to him at all? I
was like no, I was serious when I said, like,
I'm not talking to them anymore. They're not my friends.
And this was on Thursday. Yeah, yeah, And so I'm,
you know, sitting here like what the heck happened? And
I messaged Shana like, hey, why did they call up
(49:36):
their wedding? That's Shana Adler, Rachel's last remaining friend. Yeah,
And then she told me that Dan had been arrested
for and all like the boys had been arrested and
for being accessories to a murder and I was like,
are you serious? And so my mind wasn't it. Days
(49:58):
after that, I just couldn't wrap I head around that.
And then later, uh, like the next day I found
out Dan tried to commit suicide in the thing by
like hitting his head really hard against him, like really,
got you're so stupid. Um. But I found out he
tried to kill himself, and I was like, oh my god.
(50:19):
And then I think when was it that they said
that that he was at fault, because well, they charged him.
They charged him with murder on mate. The excess we
charged was at his bachelor party at Tsunami and hunting
to meat. That was Wednesday night. On by Thursday afternoon,
(50:41):
he confessed and that's when they charged him officially with murder.
And then they went that night to find Sam's body
in the attic of the theater. Yeah, so that that
was happening. That was Thursday, which is you were at
work when I guess they they basically said that they
are canceling the wedding or somehow Rachel put it out
(51:02):
there at she she had emailed everybody. That's what my
friend said that everybody was sending email saying that the
wedding was canceled and they apologized and then um so
I asked Shana and I was like, what happened? Why? Now?
Shana Adler was still close with her for quite some
time after, right, I mean she she was one of
the believers in and Rachel's innocence. Her and Caitlin Gult
(51:27):
don't remember. She's another one that they did like posters
and Facebook pages right raising Rachel's innocent Oh yeah, I
remember that Facebook page. And then that gut, gut wrenching
feeling that you spoke about. Do you what do you
think that was fun? Was it just because you were
hearing from her or did you have some other weird
(51:51):
psychic feeling because that was the week in the Honestly,
I feel that it was the gods just saying like, no, don't,
don't cut ties, leave alone, don't, don't, don't have coffee
with or don't like basically like that it's the wrong choice.
(52:12):
You made the right choice in leaving. Don't go back
like it was just big red blood, you know, and yeah,
and gut instinct, just don't do it. You reach out
to her on June and you say to her, don't worry, honey,
You're not ends with me. I don't hate you, and
I honestly wish you the best. It's just that the
(52:35):
problem is that I care too much about you. I
can't take care of you, and I'm too old to
be running around town acting like a hooligan, smoking my
cigarettes and getting drunk, and I just I don't want
to have to babysit you while you get drunk, because
you do things that just aren't safe, like getting out
of moving cars and climbing trees and driving drunk. And
(52:57):
I'm honestly trying to be a better purse sin. I
just when you started doing drugs, I realized I just
didn't want my life heading in that direction, and I
already felt uncomfortable around all the neighbors you hung out
with at that apartment, so I had to leave. Even
though I loved you, I had to get out of
the situation. And I realized I left you at too
(53:18):
horrible in your life, and maybe it was for the
better for me, But I still feel horrible about what
you're going through, and I kind of think you might
need a shrink after this to help you cope with
all the emotional damage that will be left. But I
know you're strong enough to get through this, so don't worry.
I don't hate you, I'm not upset. We aren't it ends.
I don't want anything bad to happen to you. I
(53:40):
love you and miss you, even if I can't hang
with you anymore Audrey, and then her response, you're getting
teared up because you're remembering someone you thought you knew, right.
Rachel's response, there's just a few heres, let me get
through them. Thank you for explaining, Rachel says to you,
don't worry about me either. I'm going to be fine.
(54:01):
I'm getting closer and closer to God, and I was
just getting this feeling that life is going to be very,
very short. I'm not here for myself anymore. I'm here
to fulfill God's purpose, and I'm ready to do it
as soon as possible, so he'll take me to the
next life when I'm done. Through all of this, I'm
realizing love in all its shapes and forms and depth.
(54:23):
And I just wanted you to know that I love you.
If you ever need something, just let me know. That
is if you can deal with me being completely exited
in having one track mind, I think only of my
Christian God, his salvation plan, presence, et cetera. As I
remember you've had enough of that, laugh out loud, love
(54:44):
you just the same. I only wish the best for
you as well. Love in Christ, Rachel. The next response.
The next text was from you to Rachel, saying, well,
if you're sincere in your sudden love of God, then
I applaud you, and I hope it doesn't disappear once
you're feeling better, and you shouldn't be wishing to die
so soon. That won't make anyone happy. And that statement
(55:08):
sounds super suicidal. And I believe in God. It's just
that I don't believe in your Christian God and the
necessity to believe in Jesus for salvation. And I'm turned
off by zealous who professed to be a loving Christian
and full of Christ's love and then stand there damning
everyone to hell and all who are full of hate.
(55:29):
But I have something against anyone who is full of
that much hate. Also, I'm a very spiritual person. We
just have different beliefs. I have become closer to God
and no longer practice witchcraft and have started to take
the next step of converting. Blessed be Audrey. That was
the last text that you sent to Rachel in June.
(55:49):
So let's talk about that exchange. Well, that was when
I was dating my Jewish boyfriend and I was seriously
considering converting to cheats. M didn't happen, but I digress. Um,
So yeah, she The funny thing is why I said, like,
if you're serious about it, it's one thing. But we
(56:11):
rarely ever had any talks about Jesus or God or religion.
And I don't ever remember her even going to church.
Like I knew her parents did. I knew they were
like a wholesome Christian family air quotes, But God never
(56:33):
ever seemed like a part of her life or never
entered into your conversation God conversation, this subject of God
and how she's following the Lord and is a performance exactly,
it's it's it's so fake because I know she would
(56:54):
never actually I feel like that that was so so
it sounds to you as if maybe there's a reason
that all of a sudden she has found God. Of course,
because everybody loves somebody who suddenly found the big Man
in the sky and is deeply devout in having all
(57:16):
of a sudden like, oh now I'm a Christian and
I have morals because I love Jesus, which is not
loving Jesus doesn't make you have morals. It doesn't, you know,
like and it certainly doesn't give you a pass from
planning murders exactly, friends or and it it's I know
(57:39):
it's fake. I know that she knows people are reading
what she's writing. And so everybody likes a good redemption
story of somebody who was a terrible, horrible person who
all of a sudden found spirituality and divine inspiration. And
is I'm such a good person now and I was
(58:01):
so terrible and I found the error of ways, but
please look at me, how wonderful I am. That certainly
sounds like that's the script exactly. So so you read
through it. You you certainly read through it. And so
now you said there was there was some phone call,
because you did have another exchange with her, very brief.
(58:23):
But in between those exchanges there was a phone call.
There was a random phone call. Um, I was at
hooka night with some friends, and I remember, because I was,
I walked outside because it was loud, and I remember thinking,
my god, she lives awfully close to here, and and
(58:43):
my first thought was, oh, God, did she drive by
and see me or something, you know, having a cigarette,
you know, and like she lived down the streets, so
if she saw me outside smoking a cigarette, that was
like did she see me? Is that why she's calling me?
Or anyway, And at that point, you of course knew
about the murders, She just didn't know her outside and
(59:05):
then but I'm saying, at that point in time, you
knew about the murders, you knew Dan was arrested for them,
you just didn't know her role. Yeah, but yeah, it
was still very much as she was the innocent party,
no involvement, and it was all Dan's sort of thing.
I feel sorry for me because I was duped. But yeah,
and she called me to say how you doing, and
(59:29):
told me that she had a really weird experience because
I know she knew I would believe it, going back
the whole witchcraft thing. Um. And she said she she
was with her boyfriend and they were like hanging out.
She met somebody knew and he was basically like, Hey,
(59:53):
I have this weird inkling to take you somewhere. I
feel this really weird calling. Let's go for a drive
sort of thing. And they got into the car, and
he took her to the Elderado Nature Center, and she
said she started to cry and was like, why would
you take me here? Why would why would you bring
me here? And he's like, well, I just felt like
(01:00:16):
I had to. There was just like something drawing him
to bring her there, because he had no idea about
her or anything that had happened. And so she told
him what had happened, and he's like, oh, okay, well
that's why I felt called to bring you here. You know.
She told him what happened, but she didn't tell him
about the spreading of the body parts there, so she
(01:00:38):
he when he brought her there, he had no idea
and everything. And then when they were there, she shared
everything and how he was like, well, you know, I'm
a medium. That's why I was drawn here, and I
want you to know that. Uh M says it's not
(01:01:01):
your fault. And too, he's in a good place, he's
in heaven and not to cry for him and that
sort of thing. Wow. Yeah, And and she she said
that she didn't talk to anybody else about it because
nobody else would believe her except for me. Because I'm
(01:01:26):
spiritual and I feel in tune to that sort of stuff,
And so of course she would tell me because I
would believe her. Whether the story is true, who knows.
What did you say to her? The first of all,
she called and answered the phone because I had those
the text messages. I had told her, if you need me,
you can text me or call me and I'll pick
(01:01:46):
up and I'll talk to you. But I can't hang
out with you. I can't be around you. I just
can't do it. And so she called me and I
picked up, and I mean, this is a couple of
months after and So's arrest. Yeah, yeah, a couple of
after Dan's arrest. I think it was I really don't
know close out to fall, I think, But what did
(01:02:08):
you say on the phone when she told you that?
I think for me, I was still kind of processing,
like do I believe this? Do I not believe this?
Like wow, are you serious? And he didn't know about
this beforehand? And he said that to you and she's
like yeah, you know, and like that Sam was okay
and not to cry about him, and you know, I
(01:02:29):
was like, wow, that's that's really powerful. That's crazy. She
said that Sam said it's not your fault like that,
Like she shouldn't be worried because he's in heaven. And
but I think that's poker talk for a tell for
her to say. And he said, it's not your fault,
like she's trying to convince you that she's in a sentence,
(01:02:52):
did she say who the guy was that took her there?
She didn't give the name of the guy because she
didn't know him. She just met him. And that's odd
enough to get in someone's car that you don't even know. Yeah, exactly,
that's what I'm thinking too. But at the same time, well,
it's Rachel and she's completely reckless, so she totally would
do that. So so let me just say in in
(01:03:16):
conclusion that you had amazing instincts. I say it again,
and I want to just read to you these final
two emails that you did receive during it was January.
It was Rachel had retained her first attorney for the
(01:03:39):
charges that she was arrested and charged November with. In fact,
that time it was three felony counts of accessory after
the fact. And this is what Rachel sent to you. Hey, Han,
I'm sorry to have to bug you and ask you this,
but I kind of need to have my lawyer call
you at some point so she can chat with you
(01:04:00):
to see if we need you to testify in my
court case. I know you weren't really around right when
everything happened with Psycho, but it seems like since they
don't have anything against me, the trial is just going
to turn into a character assassination against me to make
a jury believe I'm the type of person that would
have been involved, So having people who knew me well
(01:04:21):
at the time might be really relevant. I don't have
your number anymore, so if you could message it to me,
I won't bother you, but just pass it on to
my lawyer, or if you want to text it to
me and I'm my number is still the same. And again,
sorry to have to bother you. I hope it's not
too much to ask. Hope all is well with you.
Love you and miss you, and you responded back almost immediately, Hon,
(01:04:44):
I love you, but I can't I can't be a
good character witness because I wasn't around you when you
guys decided to do drugs. I bailed. I don't know
how those drugs might have affected your personality went on them,
so I can't say what you would be like and emotionally,
it's still too much for me to deal with. I
know things have been hard on you, and I'm sorry
(01:05:05):
for everything you've gone through and I wish you the best. Yeah,
so she haunted you all these years in some way,
you do kind of always look over your shoulder. Do
you believe Rachel's role in the murders is much more
than what she was charged with? Uh? Yeah, I feel
(01:05:27):
that she definitely knew more than she let on that
it was a lie. You know, when when she was
on Dr Phil. I remember when she was enacting classes
and we would talk about acting in theater and everything.
I remember her once telling me that having open eyes
(01:05:48):
and blinking a lot portrayed innocence. Okay, fast forward to
Dr Phil show and she is dow in the head like, well,
I don't know, well, why don't you do this? I
know her well enough to know that I know she's
lying right there. She's doing that, I think because she
(01:06:11):
told that's what she does want it. And I was like,
oh my god, she's she's doing I think I knew it,
like she's so. After Dan was arrested for murdering Sam
Harry and Julie Cabluishi. You called Rachel Yes, after my
work shifter, or maybe it was on my lunch break.
(01:06:31):
I don't know, but when I first found out, I
called her immediately and I was like, oh my god, Rachel,
I just heard you know. Of course I was very concerned.
I only stopped talking to her three weeks ago. And
she basically was like, what the hell does it matter
to you? You're only talking to me because you want
to be famous, because you want to be connected to me,
(01:06:55):
and you want your fifteen minutes of fame, basically accusing
me of being some limelight chaser? Are you serious? Do
you really think that of me? And she's like yeah,
And I'm like okay, well by and I hung up.
So she was already I'm going to be famous? Yeah,
(01:07:15):
she she you know, she's like, you just want She
was accusing you of what she was looking forward to. Yeah,
she you know that I was going to try to
steal her limelight or something. I don't know. Being famous
for being friends with a murderer is not a good thing.
I was like, no, I don't care. I was like,
(01:07:37):
I'm sorry, I was just trying to be nice. Goodbye.
You know that brings up something that reminds me of
an equivalent situation. When she was arrested, family and church
and friends raised the bond for the bail to get
her out, and she had a little press conference, and
(01:07:59):
I guess later that night she was calling her friends,
telling her friends, do you hear them? They're calling me
an actress? Oh? My god, of course. And I'm thinking, gosh, like,
wouldn't you be more concerned about that you were going
to marry this person that that killed and chopped up
(01:08:20):
your friends? Like, instead, you're thinking, do you hear what
they're calling me? They're calling me an actress? Absolutely? She
just she wants attention. She wants it's not it's because
fame brings attention and the love and adoration of fans,
and that's what she wants. She wants everybody to love
(01:08:41):
her and admire her, and I think the world of
her and give her stuff. What Rachel forgot was there's
a big difference between fame and infamy, right, It's like, Oh,
do you really want to be famous for that? No? No,
you doubt But I mean, can you imagine, I mean,
you got out in the nick of time? Gosh, I did,
I really really did really did so so blessed and
(01:09:09):
fortunate to listen to my gut instincts and yeah, yeah, relief,
It is a lot of relief. It's happiness that I'm alive,
that I didn't get involved in something broke. Yeah, yeah,
(01:09:33):
my friend, thank god, you're so broke, you know, like
you're alive because you're broke, and I'm happy about that.
And I was like, yeah, I've never been more happy
to be poor too. Um, the whole thing must feel
so surreal to you. It does, it really does it.
I can't even describe it. It feels like I'm watching
(01:09:56):
a play and I'm interacting with it, but I'm not
part of it. But I'm part of the audience. That's right.
Maybe you're that narrator on the side that right. Then
this is Rachel slapped Dan across the face and yelled
at him. You could see the blood rage and Dan's
(01:10:16):
eyes as he shook her, and he looked over to
me and said, you take care of her. I'm done
and walked away. Seen Audrey, I want to thank you
so much for your time. It really means a lot
to hear your insights. You certainly knew her as a
friend better than most, and thank you for for being
so open and honest and willing to come on. Yeah,
(01:10:39):
no problem. Absolutely tune in next week to Sleuth and
meet three new guests who will regale you with their personal,
firsthand account of their twisted Rachel Buffett tails. Daniel Hulkyard,
(01:11:05):
Kristen Crane, and Ashley Mathis will each exclusively revealed to Sleuth.
They're shocking and unique Rachel Buffett encounters. If you enjoyed
this episode of Sleuth, share it with a friend and
be sure to leave a rating or review. Follow Sleuth
on I Heart Radio, or subscribe wherever you listen to
(01:11:27):
podcasts so that you never miss an episode
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