December 23, 2021 • 37 mins
We're sharing a special podcast with you this week: A Slight Change of Plans, which was just named Apple Podcasts' Best Show of the Year. Hosted by Dr. Maya Shankar, A Slight Change of Plans is all about understanding the science of change. That understanding, mixed with a healthy dose of compassion, has made the show a perfect antidote for the times we’re living in. In this episode, Maya talks to Shapearl about Courtney's story, and Shapearl's continued fight for the truth. You can find more episodes of A Slight Change of Plans whenever you get your podcasts.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, It's Alison Flowers from the Somebody podcast. We're
sharing another special podcast with you this week, A Slight
Change of Plans, which was just named Apple Podcasts Best
Show of the Year. Hosted by Maya Schenker, A Slight
Change of Plans is all about understanding the science of change.
(00:20):
That understanding, mixed with a healthy dose of compassion, has
made the show a perfect antidote for the times we're
living in. Maya has interviewed celebrities like Tiffany Hattish and
Casey Musgraves, but she's interviewed real life inspirations to people
who have dealt with cancer diagnoses or the loss of
a loved one and somehow managed to learn and grow
(00:41):
from those hard experiences. We challenge you to listen to
an episode and not be inspired. In this episode, Maya
talks to Chapel about Courtney's story and Chaparral's continued fight
for the truth. You can find more episodes of A
Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts. I
(01:12):
remember that night like it was yesterday. I could still
hear the thunderous beat in my head, and I remember
being so startled out of my sleep because I've never
experienced such a bamming at my door, so it shocked me,
and I knew that something bad had happened. That's Chaparral
(01:34):
Wells describing the moment when Chicago police officers showed up
on her doorstep in the middle of the night. Her
oldest child, her twenty two year old son, Courtney Copeland,
had been fatally shot. Chaparl needed answers about what had
happened in Courtney's final moments, but it soon became clear
she wasn't going to get them unless she took matters
(01:56):
into her own hands. It wasn't by choice that I
took this journey in investigating my son's murder. I had
no other option. Chaparral did not know at the time
that she spent the next five years trying to figure
out what exactly had happened to Courtney. On today's episode,
(02:19):
a mother channels her grief into justice for her son.
I'm Maya Shankar, and this is a slight change of plants,
a show about who we are and who we become
in the face of a big change. Chaparral was grieving
(02:40):
the loss of her son, Courtney, but her grieving process
was complicated by the fact there were so many unanswered
questions surrounding his death. I wanted to hear about her
psychological journey through all this, how she balanced her dual
identities as mom and investigator, and importantly, I wanted to
know how all her advocacy may have changed her relationship
(03:02):
with Courtney's death. I started off our conversation by asking
Chaperl about the kind of person Courtney was. He was
such a loving person. I s always come home, like
from dropping off the kids at school, and he'll be here,
and he'll come up and he'll be all in my bed.
And I remember even in his team, and when he
(03:24):
was even grown, he'd be like, can you just rubbed
on my ears? You know? He was just like so affectionate.
And I would say one of the best memories I
have for Courtney is him being the glue. He was
someone who if there was a conflict or he would
be the first person to try to resolve it. Hey,
(03:47):
you guys, you know we're family. Let's pull it together.
Let's it doesn't matter what happened. Let's just resolve this
and move on. I remember Courdney shortly after my mother
passed away, and Courtney and my grandmother were very close,
and he said, mom, h Grandma wanted me to keep
(04:07):
the family together. And Courtney may have been at the
time that she passed. And I was like, you know,
that's a huge responsibility, Courtney, I said, but she saw
something within you that felt that you could do it.
Because Courtney was the type of person, he got along
(04:29):
with everyone, and so he would basically try to host
family dinners lessons like this person because these are things
that my grandmother did, especially around holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas.
She made sure everyone got together. In addition to being
a family oriented guy, Courtney was also making great strides
(04:50):
in his professional life. He was a sales wrath and
he earned a special bonus that allowed him to get
at Burgundy BMW. And so I remember him pulling up
in our draw I've way probably around twelve or one
in the morning. He was like, Mom, I did it.
I did it. I got the car. I got the car.
And I remember him giving me the biggest hug and
(05:11):
he was like, you gotta come down there and see it.
And the music was blasting and he was just like
so excited. His friends were out. I mean, it's like
literally twelve thirty one o'clock in the morning and he
had called out his friends over you can't see anything,
and everybody was just it was like a mini party
right in the driveway. And this car wasn't just any
car to Courtney. They had a relationship. He would talk
(05:34):
to the car every morning like it was his girlfriend.
Good morning baby, how are you today? I mean, it
was just that was his life. The car was his
life for sure. Well, so yeah, I guess it symbolized
something so meaningful to him about what he had accomplished
in life and where he was heading. And it did.
It did. His goals were always to make sure that
(05:58):
we didn't have to work. It's so there didn't have
to do anything. So once he received that BMW bonus,
he actually pushed harder and he was working harder, talking
to more people and trying to get as much as
he could in the way of excelling his business as possible.
(06:18):
So one night, you hear a knock on the door
at two in the morning and it's the police. Can
you take me back to that moment? Yes, I remember
that night like it was yesterday. I could still hear
the thunderous beat in my head. You know, this is
something that you never forget, these sounds, these moments where
(06:41):
you were. And I remember being so startled out of
my sleep because I've never experienced such a obaming at
my door, So that bamming it shocked me and I
knew that something bad had happened. And so when I
got to the door, the officer was like, do you
(07:01):
know a Courtney Copeland And I said yes, I'm his mother,
and then he said, well, we come to notify you
that you need to call Illinois Masignic Hospital. And at
that moment, the first thing that goes through my mind is, oh,
my god, my son has been in a terrible accident.
Something that's happened. And uh so I'm like, for a
(07:23):
police officer to come to your home, it has to
be extremely serious. So I remember my husband he had
jumped out of bed as well. And by this time
I'm focusing on Okay, I have to go change my
clothes and get ready because they're telling us that we
have to go to this hospital. And so my husband
(07:43):
is talking to them and I was like, well, Brent
called the hospital, let's see what's happening. And I'm putting
on my clothes, and they said, we can't tell you
over the phone. You need to come in. Once that happened,
once he uttered those words, I remember being in my
bedroom and just falling to the floor because I just
(08:06):
felt in my gut that them telling you that they
can't tell you on the phone, this must be bad.
And then once I arrived to the hospital, UH, I
told him who I was. I said, I'm here to
see Courtney Copeland. And then they said, well, we need
to take you to the family room. And I remember,
(08:29):
just like it just happened just now, when they said that,
I was like, I'm not going. I'm not going into
the family room because in that moment, you know that
your child is gone. And so I said, at that point,
I started to demand to see Courtney, and they were like,
we can't allow you to see him. And I'm like,
you know, it was an emotional, emotional moment because everyone
(08:56):
knew at that moment that Courtney was gone. But you know,
as a mom, you want to see that confirmation. You
want to you want to see your child. And UH,
they were at first denying us the right to see Courtney,
and they were denying us, uh, the right to even
really know a lot of information about him. What was
(09:20):
the reason they wouldn't let you see Courtney, Well, because
it was a murder investigation. And so they said that
the police had already determined that this was a murder
and that no one is to be able to see him,
and so they said their protocol is to send them
directly to the morgue. And so about forty five minutes
(09:44):
to an hour, the doctor finally comes and tells us
what happened. And so we're in the family room and
at this time it's about thirty family members that are
with us, and his friends, his closest friends, and they
were like, you know, the doctor came in that your
son was brought in by ambulance and he was shot,
and all of us just like shot by who? And
(10:07):
we all fell to the ground because we couldn't believe.
I mean, because for Courtney to be shot, it was
just something that was unfathomable about him, of all people
being shot, he was not, you know violent, he you know,
if if he saw confrontation, Courtney would leave. So for
them to tell us that he had been shot, we
(10:29):
immediately said, by who? Who did this to him? After
nearly two hours of Pleading with hospital doctors and staff,
Chapel was finally allowed to see her son. She and
her family made their way to the trauma ward, where
Courtney was lying on a hospital bed. I would probably
say that was probably the hardest moment of my life
(10:52):
to be able to see him in that state. You know,
I remember so vividly when we first walked in the room,
and you know, all of my family was there, and
I can I can remember myself just telling everybody, I
(11:14):
need to be along with my baby. I need a moment.
I need him to note that you know, Mommy was
sorry that she wasn't there. You know, I just imagine
my son going through all this trauma by himself and
not having his mom there, and that was hard for me.
(11:36):
And I remember touching him and kissing him and his
his body was still warm, and you know, you know
those moments you just think about all of the time
that you had and and and they're rushing back every
moment from birth and him into this moment where you
(12:00):
get at him for his final days, his final seconds,
his final hours, and there's that very final moment when
you're getting ready to say goodbye. Mm hmm, there's a
moment at the hospital that night where when you feel
more than just grief. Yes, after we view Courtney, the
(12:26):
two detectives that allow us to see him, they begin
to question us about Courtney in the vehicle. The first
question they asked was who was the owner of the
BMW And I said, Courtney. Courtney is owner of the BMW.
And I said, but he did have a co signer.
(12:47):
So on my mind, I was thinking, maybe, uh, this
was a traffic stop gone wrong, because why would you
be questioning you know, I'm thinking detectives. If they're telling
me that my son was shot and killed by unknowned assailant,
then the first thing should have been you know, where
was he going on? Who was he with? What? What
(13:09):
information do you know? But to question the vehicle it
made me suspicious of their intent. Maybe they thought that
Courtney had stolen the vehicle. It was like to me
they were interrogating Courtney as opposed to trying to find
out who could have done this to him. So at
(13:30):
this point, Chaparl, you decide to take matters into your
own hands and you go int a full investigator mode.
I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, and it's
hard to imagine where I'd even begin. Well, you know,
it wasn't by choice that I took this journey in
(13:50):
investigating my son's murder. I had no other option. I
felt that Courtney deserved two have clothosure. I mean it
was like day in and day out from the moment
I found out that Courtney had been killed. I needed
to know why. I still need to know why, and
(14:11):
I needed to know how, how did these things occur?
What happened? And so you know, within my being, it
was just constantly turning all of these unknowns and I
had to try to uncover whatever I could. I mean, literally,
we were we were working. We were working on Courtney's case. Seven.
(14:34):
I don't think I slept the first week, because I
would maybe sleep like two to three hours because I
was constantly going over the timeline. I was recording what
my thoughts were, any tips, I was putting it in there.
We were going out in the neighborhood. We were walking,
(14:55):
uh looking for clues. We were talking to his friends
that he would have encountered that night. So we were
literally we had all boots on the streets trying to
figure out what happened. Mm hmm. You eventually tracked down
Courtney's hospital records. What did the records say? You know,
(15:15):
at the time that I actually received the medical records,
I had already had suspicions that something was wrong. So
the first page of the medical documents was the Chicago
Fire Department run sheet, and that particular run sheet, the
first paragraph of it it states that my son was violent, agitated, combative,
(15:42):
and a threat to others. And so I knew in
my heart, because I know my son, that this information
had to be wrong. As I continued to read, it
says and the patient was handcuffed. When I saw that
my son was handcuffed, I lost it. I mean, I
(16:03):
was just like, why would you handcuffed somebody who who
was dying and he went to you for help? And
so none of this made any sense to me, and
it only hyped my suspicion. You know, you felt a
little comfort and knowing that at least he was will
cared for on the scene, but when you find out
(16:23):
that that was not true, it just crushed me. Throughout
your investigation, you and members of the community are sharing
leads with the police, but they seemed to be falling
on deaf ears. In fact, the police department goes totally
silent on you for an entire year. What tactics do
(16:44):
you use to try to keep their attention on Courtney's case. Well,
we actually did rallies outside of the district. We marched
on the mayor office, and we also canvas the neighborhoods.
We talk to neighbors who hit video cameras. We requested
for your information freedom of information acts so that that
(17:07):
way we can get all the tapes, the audio, the visual,
the pod cameras, everything that surrounded this case. Chaparral was
intent on getting access to the footage surrounding Courtney's death
and began searching the web for potential partners who could
help her. One night, around two thirty in the morning,
she came across an article about Lakwan McDonald, the seventeen
(17:31):
year old who was fatally shot by a Chicago police officer.
In the article cited a nonprofit called the Invisible Institute.
The institute had played a key role in getting footage
released from Lakwan McDonald's case, and so I said, well,
at this point, I have nothing to lose. I'm gonna
(17:51):
write to the Invisible Institute to see if I can
get some help with trying to get the video tapes
and the audio tapes that we know the police have
surrounding Courtney's case, because at that point I was only
looking for someone to listen to me and to hear me,
because I felt like everything I was saying as a mom,
it was being misconstrued as I'm just grieving mom and
(18:15):
none of this have any merit. But what I was
showing to the world, what I wanted the world to understand,
that there are a lot of inconsistencies in this case. Yeah,
it's so interesting how when you occupy the role of mom,
there's there's a presumption that emotions bias, all that stuff
(18:35):
is creeping in when in actuality, you were holding yourself
to a very rigorous process and you were just trying
to find the facts. Yes, very early on, my friend Santita,
she told me, you don't want to come to a conclusion.
You want to arrive at the conclusion. You want to
let the evidence lead you to what happened to your son.
(18:56):
And so that was one of the cruise to advices
that I received and that I tried to adapt during
the whole process, that I wanted to naturally allow the
evidence to tell us what happened to Courdney. I'm wondering
whether strategies you use to try and gain more credibility
(19:20):
in the eyes of the police force, giving your status
as quote mom. You know, I think that they were
dismissive because I was a mom, They were dismissive because
I was black, all of these things. And I don't
know if they would treat everyone like that, but I
felt that they treated me very badly. But I I
(19:40):
believe that they felt that because I'm not um, I
didn't go to law school, I didn't go to the
police academy, that therefore that my only knowledge about solving
crimes is uh, Special Victims Unit on Law and Order.
That's what That's what they basically thought that I was doing.
(20:03):
And just like I told them, I said, no, this
is basic information. I mean, you know, I had to
actually read a lot of terminology. I had to understand
everything that I was reading in their reports. Some things
I didn't understand and I had to go and look
it up. Well what does this mean when they say this?
What is what does these code me? And police language?
(20:26):
So in order for me to understand that, I had
to actually reach out to a couple of police officer
of friends that I know. Had to reach out to
so share of people that I know and to try
to figure out the terminology so I can understand on
their level. Same with the autopsic reports. A lot of
medical terminology I didn't know, so as a mom I
(20:48):
had to take off my mom emotional world and put
on my investigative mode. Had and tried to figure out
what happened to my son. So I wanted to know
all the ins and outs, how the bullet travel everything.
And people were like, this is just too much. It's
too much, You're doing too much, and I will tell them, no,
I need to know. I need to know how how
(21:10):
did my son pass away? I need to know. Together
with the Invisible Institute, Chapearl continued to advocate for the
release of footage from Courtney's final moments, and finally the
police agreed to turn it over. One and a half
years after Courtney's death, I asked Chaparl what it was
like to hold those videos in her hands for the
(21:32):
first time. You know, I remember receiving the videos in
my mailbox and I had prepared myself all right, came
up in my room, set up the DVD player, got
(21:52):
prepared to watch it. I prayed before I loaded it
because I knew it was going to be hard to
actually see it. I pop it in and it tells
me it's in a format that I can't even read.
So I remember feeling this, this horrible, horrible feeling like
(22:14):
they're playing with me, They're playing with my emotions. They
knew that they sent me a format that I couldn't read,
so I remember just crying out and I called the
Invisible Institute to ask them if they can decode it.
So the moment that we get the video tape decoded,
I remember the Invisible Institute being with me, and all
(22:37):
I could see is my son just like reaching up
on his knees, begging them to help, begging. He surrounded
by eight to ten cops and my son is begging
to be helped. And then the video cuts away and
(22:58):
focuses on the police station for two minutes, and so
I'm like, what is happening to my son? I'm panicking
because I don't even know what's happening at this point.
Why would the video just automatically turn away from the
scene into we're watching the police station. And then the
(23:22):
next frame is when they aggressively picked up my son
off the ground, throw him against the police car and
then onto the gurney as if he was a ragged
out And that's why I often tell people, it's so hard,
(23:43):
it's so hard to even imagine the emotions that my son.
I just know my son was just so confused, like
police are supposed to be here to serve and protect you,
and I'm shocked, I'm scared what's happening. And this is
(24:05):
what his final moments were, and he was by himself.
And I told people all the time that's like the
hardest thing for me as a mom to know that
he endured all this by himself, and there was nobody
there who cared enough for him to help him through
(24:28):
this and to comfort him in these moments. Not a
soul was there. Yeah, we'll be back in a moment
(24:50):
with a slight change of plans. Over the next several years,
Chapel Wells continued to push for further charity around what
actually happened to her son, Courtney Copeland. In September, she
received some news from the City of Chicago. Chaparral's advocacy
(25:10):
had paid off. The Office of the Inspector General, an
independent watchdog agency, had decided to launch a formal investigation
into Courtney's case. The investigation is currently under way. Where
do you go from here, Chaparral. A lot of people say,
you know, don't put too much stock and what this
(25:31):
report shows m hm. But I think that what happened
to Courtney has to be addressed on all levels of
city government, state government, federal government, because I feel that
these incidents occur far more frequently than police shootings, but
(25:58):
they don't get the highlight and the notoriety because it's
not the police pulling the trigger or a beat down
or a knee on the neck. But these type of
incidents of racial profiling and the police accountability need to
(26:18):
be addressed. So I'm looking for more legislative changes to
see if the Inspector General kid make UH policy changes
that would change the policy from they can intervene until
they must intervene to help to save more lives. Because
(26:38):
the reality is is that, like I said, it wasn't
the fact that Courtney was shot, it was the lack
of urgency to his care. You know, recently, UH Offers
of French was shot in Chicago and she was killed.
I listened to that traffic on the police scanner that day,
(27:00):
and I was listening in real time. I saw how
they move heaven and earth to get her to the
nearest trauma center as they should. As they should, But
that same care that they put for offers of French
should go for every citizen in Chicago in the United States.
(27:20):
There should be no respect of person because of their title.
But everybody deserves a fighting chance. And so if we
make these legislative changes to ensure that everyone has the
opportunity at life, then that would be justice for Courtney.
(27:43):
M hm. Did you ever find your relationship at the
police changing throughout this process? I mean, how you approach
that change in any way? Well, I would say we
still have a contentious relationship. I would say that I
still have no faith in them that they would actually
(28:03):
solve Courtney's murder. But I'm hoping that we can come
to a clear understanding that Coordinate deserves justice. This was
not for me um an investigation on the police to
try to entrap them or to make them look like
the bad guy. I wanted justice for my son. It
(28:27):
didn't matter if it was the police. If it was
a stranger whoever did this to Courtney, they deserved to
be prosecuted and convicted of this crime. So that was
my only goal, and I was always telling them, I
want you to treat my son as if it was yours.
How would you go about handling this investigation if it
(28:49):
was your child on that slab instead of mine? Mm hmm.
I'm curious to know how having clarity around Courtney's death
will impact your life on a personal level. Aside from
the advocacy part. I know there's nothing I could do.
(29:10):
I know as a mother, I cannot change what happened.
I don't even know if me being there would have
been any different. But for me, the clarity I have
is more introspective about life and how fragile it is,
(29:30):
and how that you live every moment as if it's
your last, and you love harder and you love more freely.
So that's the clarity I've learned. And all of this
is to make sure you tell everyone that you love them,
(29:51):
because I didn't know that I wasn't going to be
able to tell my son that, and I only can
tell him and actions and my continuous fight for him.
But I wish I had that moment to say that
for him to hear it. Do you think this reflects
a change and how you how you thought about your
(30:14):
goals throughout, which is at the beginning, you're seeking clarity
around the facts, and actually now it's it's also clarity
around how you plan to live the rest of your life.
Like that's what you ended up getting from it. Yeah,
you know that. It's this poem that I often quote.
The hardest thing was hearing that my son had passed away,
(30:38):
But now it's the hardest thing is going on and
living without him. Now that I've heard that, and and
that is that is the truth? How do you? How
do you continue to move forward and go on? And
I hope that what the world gathers from Courtney, it's
just the love, just to love, to show the love
(31:02):
and not be afraid to show how you feel about someone.
One of the greatest things about Courtney that I learned
and his death is that he had this keen ability
to make everyone feel special, to make everyone feel loved.
And if you ask any of his friends, they'll say,
(31:24):
Courtney was my best friend. Usually we only get one,
but he made everyone feel like they were his best friend,
and so I'm learning from him those qualities of making
myself vulnerable and to show love more often has telling
(31:46):
Courtney's story, including the story of how well he lived
his life, helped you heal in ways that you couldn't
have anticipated. I would say, yes, Um, as a parent,
you grow up to cheen your children, the morals guidance.
You know you're still you're instilling so much into them,
(32:08):
and you're like, I want, I hope these kids are
listening to me. And what what what I found out
in his death is that he was the way I
raised him is the way that he was living. And
so I find so much comfort and so much joy
and hearing other people talk about my son the way
(32:29):
that he made them feel. I recall, uh, the weekend
that Courtney had passed away, I opened my home to
the public because it was just so much outpouring of
grief and they were grieving with me, grieving for me,
and we were all united in this great loss of
(32:50):
Courtney Copeland. And I had opened my house to anyone
who wanted to come and pay their respects. And I
remember gentleman walking into my home and he told me,
he said, you don't know me, and I don't even
know your son, but I saw his photo on the
TV that he had been killed. And he handed me
(33:14):
this koran. And he hands me this koran. He said, ma'am,
your son came into my restaurant about a month ago
and he saw me. He was sitting with his girlfriend.
He saw me. He said, I was in so much
pain that day, and he said, your son saw the
(33:34):
anguish in my face. And he walked over to me
and he said, Sir, I don't know you, but I
just want to encourage you today. I want to give
you some hope and tell you that whatever it is
that you're going through, that God is going to be
able to help you. He started crying. He said, because
(33:57):
your son came to me in that day and he
gave me those words of encouragement and told me to
keep going and whatever I was going through it was
gonna be okay. I'm here today. And he turned around,
he walked out, and I just like, oh my God,
And you have so much You have so much joy
(34:21):
and sadness at the same time. But you as a parent,
you said, my child has been listening in there and
they're validating you as a parent. And so I thought
that was just like so profound that we wanted him
to grow up and treat people with dignity and respect,
(34:44):
and that's the way I would want him to have
been treated as well. Yeah. Yeah, there's an update to
chapel story that I wanted to share with you. When
(35:05):
she and I initially spoke, the Inspector General's investigation was
still under way, but Chaparl was recently notified that the
investigation has wrapped up and a final report has been
sent to the City of Chicago. The report is slated
to be released to the public in the coming months.
For more details on the evolution of Courtney's case, you
(35:25):
can listen to the podcast Somebody, which was named a
finalist for a Pullit Surprise this past year. Hey, thanks
so much for listening to A Slight Change of Plans
this year and for sharing the show with others. We're
hard at work on a new batch of episodes, but
(35:47):
in the meantime, you can check out the feed for
episodes you may not have heard yet. From the whole
Slight Change family, We're wishing you a peaceful and RESTful holiday.
We'll see you in the new year. A Slight Change
of Plans is created, written in executive produced by me
Maya Shunker. The Slight Change family includes Tyler Green Our
(36:08):
senior producer, Jan Guerra Our senior editor, Ben Holiday our
sound engineer, Emily ross Deck our associate producer, and Neil
A Bell Our executive producer. Louis Skara wrote our theme
song in Ginger Smith helped to range the vocals. A
Slight Change of Plants the production of Pushkin Industries so
big thanks to everyone there, including Malcolm Bladwell, Jacob Weisburg,
(36:32):
Lee Talmlott and Heather Faith and of course a very
special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight
Change of Plans on Instagram at Dr Maya Shunker. Can
you just quickly share the story of finding out what
Courtney named you on his phone? You know, we're going
(36:55):
through his phone and we're looking at all the messages.
It says, oh, whose number is this? And the blow
and behold it's my number, and I'm like, you know,
as any bother as He's like, here should go again. Oh,
but he would also call me mama bear. He would
(37:17):
like Mama Bear, Mama Bear. And I think that that
that is just it and Mama Bear is fighting for him,
and he knew that whatever situation, whether it was oh,
Mama Bear, I was gonna be somebody that's gonna be
determined to find out what happened to him.
Hi, everyone, It's Alison Flowers from the Somebody podcast. We're
sharing another special podcast with you this week, A Slight
Change of Plans, which was just named Apple Podcasts Best
Show of the Year. Hosted by Maya Schenker, A Slight
Change of Plans is all about understanding the science of change.
(00:20):
That understanding, mixed with a healthy dose of compassion, has
made the show a perfect antidote for the times we're
living in. Maya has interviewed celebrities like Tiffany Hattish and
Casey Musgraves, but she's interviewed real life inspirations to people
who have dealt with cancer diagnoses or the loss of
a loved one and somehow managed to learn and grow
(00:41):
from those hard experiences. We challenge you to listen to
an episode and not be inspired. In this episode, Maya
talks to Chapel about Courtney's story and Chaparral's continued fight
for the truth. You can find more episodes of A
Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts. I
(01:12):
remember that night like it was yesterday. I could still
hear the thunderous beat in my head, and I remember
being so startled out of my sleep because I've never
experienced such a bamming at my door, so it shocked me,
and I knew that something bad had happened. That's Chaparral
(01:34):
Wells describing the moment when Chicago police officers showed up
on her doorstep in the middle of the night. Her
oldest child, her twenty two year old son, Courtney Copeland,
had been fatally shot. Chaparl needed answers about what had
happened in Courtney's final moments, but it soon became clear
she wasn't going to get them unless she took matters
(01:56):
into her own hands. It wasn't by choice that I
took this journey in investigating my son's murder. I had
no other option. Chaparral did not know at the time
that she spent the next five years trying to figure
out what exactly had happened to Courtney. On today's episode,
(02:19):
a mother channels her grief into justice for her son.
I'm Maya Shankar, and this is a slight change of plants,
a show about who we are and who we become
in the face of a big change. Chaparral was grieving
(02:40):
the loss of her son, Courtney, but her grieving process
was complicated by the fact there were so many unanswered
questions surrounding his death. I wanted to hear about her
psychological journey through all this, how she balanced her dual
identities as mom and investigator, and importantly, I wanted to
know how all her advocacy may have changed her relationship
(03:02):
with Courtney's death. I started off our conversation by asking
Chaperl about the kind of person Courtney was. He was
such a loving person. I s always come home, like
from dropping off the kids at school, and he'll be here,
and he'll come up and he'll be all in my bed.
And I remember even in his team, and when he
(03:24):
was even grown, he'd be like, can you just rubbed
on my ears? You know? He was just like so affectionate.
And I would say one of the best memories I
have for Courtney is him being the glue. He was
someone who if there was a conflict or he would
be the first person to try to resolve it. Hey,
(03:47):
you guys, you know we're family. Let's pull it together.
Let's it doesn't matter what happened. Let's just resolve this
and move on. I remember Courdney shortly after my mother
passed away, and Courtney and my grandmother were very close,
and he said, mom, h Grandma wanted me to keep
(04:07):
the family together. And Courtney may have been at the
time that she passed. And I was like, you know,
that's a huge responsibility, Courtney, I said, but she saw
something within you that felt that you could do it.
Because Courtney was the type of person, he got along
(04:29):
with everyone, and so he would basically try to host
family dinners lessons like this person because these are things
that my grandmother did, especially around holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas.
She made sure everyone got together. In addition to being
a family oriented guy, Courtney was also making great strides
(04:50):
in his professional life. He was a sales wrath and
he earned a special bonus that allowed him to get
at Burgundy BMW. And so I remember him pulling up
in our draw I've way probably around twelve or one
in the morning. He was like, Mom, I did it.
I did it. I got the car. I got the car.
And I remember him giving me the biggest hug and
(05:11):
he was like, you gotta come down there and see it.
And the music was blasting and he was just like
so excited. His friends were out. I mean, it's like
literally twelve thirty one o'clock in the morning and he
had called out his friends over you can't see anything,
and everybody was just it was like a mini party
right in the driveway. And this car wasn't just any
car to Courtney. They had a relationship. He would talk
(05:34):
to the car every morning like it was his girlfriend.
Good morning baby, how are you today? I mean, it
was just that was his life. The car was his
life for sure. Well, so yeah, I guess it symbolized
something so meaningful to him about what he had accomplished
in life and where he was heading. And it did.
It did. His goals were always to make sure that
(05:58):
we didn't have to work. It's so there didn't have
to do anything. So once he received that BMW bonus,
he actually pushed harder and he was working harder, talking
to more people and trying to get as much as
he could in the way of excelling his business as possible.
(06:18):
So one night, you hear a knock on the door
at two in the morning and it's the police. Can
you take me back to that moment? Yes, I remember
that night like it was yesterday. I could still hear
the thunderous beat in my head. You know, this is
something that you never forget, these sounds, these moments where
(06:41):
you were. And I remember being so startled out of
my sleep because I've never experienced such a obaming at
my door, So that bamming it shocked me and I
knew that something bad had happened. And so when I
got to the door, the officer was like, do you
(07:01):
know a Courtney Copeland And I said yes, I'm his mother,
and then he said, well, we come to notify you
that you need to call Illinois Masignic Hospital. And at
that moment, the first thing that goes through my mind is, oh,
my god, my son has been in a terrible accident.
Something that's happened. And uh so I'm like, for a
(07:23):
police officer to come to your home, it has to
be extremely serious. So I remember my husband he had
jumped out of bed as well. And by this time
I'm focusing on Okay, I have to go change my
clothes and get ready because they're telling us that we
have to go to this hospital. And so my husband
(07:43):
is talking to them and I was like, well, Brent
called the hospital, let's see what's happening. And I'm putting
on my clothes, and they said, we can't tell you
over the phone. You need to come in. Once that happened,
once he uttered those words, I remember being in my
bedroom and just falling to the floor because I just
(08:06):
felt in my gut that them telling you that they
can't tell you on the phone, this must be bad.
And then once I arrived to the hospital, UH, I
told him who I was. I said, I'm here to
see Courtney Copeland. And then they said, well, we need
to take you to the family room. And I remember,
(08:29):
just like it just happened just now, when they said that,
I was like, I'm not going. I'm not going into
the family room because in that moment, you know that
your child is gone. And so I said, at that point,
I started to demand to see Courtney, and they were like,
we can't allow you to see him. And I'm like,
you know, it was an emotional, emotional moment because everyone
(08:56):
knew at that moment that Courtney was gone. But you know,
as a mom, you want to see that confirmation. You
want to you want to see your child. And UH,
they were at first denying us the right to see Courtney,
and they were denying us, uh, the right to even
really know a lot of information about him. What was
(09:20):
the reason they wouldn't let you see Courtney, Well, because
it was a murder investigation. And so they said that
the police had already determined that this was a murder
and that no one is to be able to see him,
and so they said their protocol is to send them
directly to the morgue. And so about forty five minutes
(09:44):
to an hour, the doctor finally comes and tells us
what happened. And so we're in the family room and
at this time it's about thirty family members that are
with us, and his friends, his closest friends, and they
were like, you know, the doctor came in that your
son was brought in by ambulance and he was shot,
and all of us just like shot by who? And
(10:07):
we all fell to the ground because we couldn't believe.
I mean, because for Courtney to be shot, it was
just something that was unfathomable about him, of all people
being shot, he was not, you know violent, he you know,
if if he saw confrontation, Courtney would leave. So for
them to tell us that he had been shot, we
(10:29):
immediately said, by who? Who did this to him? After
nearly two hours of Pleading with hospital doctors and staff,
Chapel was finally allowed to see her son. She and
her family made their way to the trauma ward, where
Courtney was lying on a hospital bed. I would probably
say that was probably the hardest moment of my life
(10:52):
to be able to see him in that state. You know,
I remember so vividly when we first walked in the room,
and you know, all of my family was there, and
I can I can remember myself just telling everybody, I
(11:14):
need to be along with my baby. I need a moment.
I need him to note that you know, Mommy was
sorry that she wasn't there. You know, I just imagine
my son going through all this trauma by himself and
not having his mom there, and that was hard for me.
(11:36):
And I remember touching him and kissing him and his
his body was still warm, and you know, you know
those moments you just think about all of the time
that you had and and and they're rushing back every
moment from birth and him into this moment where you
(12:00):
get at him for his final days, his final seconds,
his final hours, and there's that very final moment when
you're getting ready to say goodbye. Mm hmm, there's a
moment at the hospital that night where when you feel
more than just grief. Yes, after we view Courtney, the
(12:26):
two detectives that allow us to see him, they begin
to question us about Courtney in the vehicle. The first
question they asked was who was the owner of the
BMW And I said, Courtney. Courtney is owner of the BMW.
And I said, but he did have a co signer.
(12:47):
So on my mind, I was thinking, maybe, uh, this
was a traffic stop gone wrong, because why would you
be questioning you know, I'm thinking detectives. If they're telling
me that my son was shot and killed by unknowned assailant,
then the first thing should have been you know, where
was he going on? Who was he with? What? What
(13:09):
information do you know? But to question the vehicle it
made me suspicious of their intent. Maybe they thought that
Courtney had stolen the vehicle. It was like to me
they were interrogating Courtney as opposed to trying to find
out who could have done this to him. So at
(13:30):
this point, Chaparl, you decide to take matters into your
own hands and you go int a full investigator mode.
I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, and it's
hard to imagine where I'd even begin. Well, you know,
it wasn't by choice that I took this journey in
(13:50):
investigating my son's murder. I had no other option. I
felt that Courtney deserved two have clothosure. I mean it
was like day in and day out from the moment
I found out that Courtney had been killed. I needed
to know why. I still need to know why, and
(14:11):
I needed to know how, how did these things occur?
What happened? And so you know, within my being, it
was just constantly turning all of these unknowns and I
had to try to uncover whatever I could. I mean, literally,
we were we were working. We were working on Courtney's case. Seven.
(14:34):
I don't think I slept the first week, because I
would maybe sleep like two to three hours because I
was constantly going over the timeline. I was recording what
my thoughts were, any tips, I was putting it in there.
We were going out in the neighborhood. We were walking,
(14:55):
uh looking for clues. We were talking to his friends
that he would have encountered that night. So we were
literally we had all boots on the streets trying to
figure out what happened. Mm hmm. You eventually tracked down
Courtney's hospital records. What did the records say? You know,
(15:15):
at the time that I actually received the medical records,
I had already had suspicions that something was wrong. So
the first page of the medical documents was the Chicago
Fire Department run sheet, and that particular run sheet, the
first paragraph of it it states that my son was violent, agitated, combative,
(15:42):
and a threat to others. And so I knew in
my heart, because I know my son, that this information
had to be wrong. As I continued to read, it
says and the patient was handcuffed. When I saw that
my son was handcuffed, I lost it. I mean, I
(16:03):
was just like, why would you handcuffed somebody who who
was dying and he went to you for help? And
so none of this made any sense to me, and
it only hyped my suspicion. You know, you felt a
little comfort and knowing that at least he was will
cared for on the scene, but when you find out
(16:23):
that that was not true, it just crushed me. Throughout
your investigation, you and members of the community are sharing
leads with the police, but they seemed to be falling
on deaf ears. In fact, the police department goes totally
silent on you for an entire year. What tactics do
(16:44):
you use to try to keep their attention on Courtney's case. Well,
we actually did rallies outside of the district. We marched
on the mayor office, and we also canvas the neighborhoods.
We talk to neighbors who hit video cameras. We requested
for your information freedom of information acts so that that
(17:07):
way we can get all the tapes, the audio, the visual,
the pod cameras, everything that surrounded this case. Chaparral was
intent on getting access to the footage surrounding Courtney's death
and began searching the web for potential partners who could
help her. One night, around two thirty in the morning,
she came across an article about Lakwan McDonald, the seventeen
(17:31):
year old who was fatally shot by a Chicago police officer.
In the article cited a nonprofit called the Invisible Institute.
The institute had played a key role in getting footage
released from Lakwan McDonald's case, and so I said, well,
at this point, I have nothing to lose. I'm gonna
(17:51):
write to the Invisible Institute to see if I can
get some help with trying to get the video tapes
and the audio tapes that we know the police have
surrounding Courtney's case, because at that point I was only
looking for someone to listen to me and to hear me,
because I felt like everything I was saying as a mom,
it was being misconstrued as I'm just grieving mom and
(18:15):
none of this have any merit. But what I was
showing to the world, what I wanted the world to understand,
that there are a lot of inconsistencies in this case. Yeah,
it's so interesting how when you occupy the role of mom,
there's there's a presumption that emotions bias, all that stuff
(18:35):
is creeping in when in actuality, you were holding yourself
to a very rigorous process and you were just trying
to find the facts. Yes, very early on, my friend Santita,
she told me, you don't want to come to a conclusion.
You want to arrive at the conclusion. You want to
let the evidence lead you to what happened to your son.
(18:56):
And so that was one of the cruise to advices
that I received and that I tried to adapt during
the whole process, that I wanted to naturally allow the
evidence to tell us what happened to Courdney. I'm wondering
whether strategies you use to try and gain more credibility
(19:20):
in the eyes of the police force, giving your status
as quote mom. You know, I think that they were
dismissive because I was a mom, They were dismissive because
I was black, all of these things. And I don't
know if they would treat everyone like that, but I
felt that they treated me very badly. But I I
(19:40):
believe that they felt that because I'm not um, I
didn't go to law school, I didn't go to the
police academy, that therefore that my only knowledge about solving
crimes is uh, Special Victims Unit on Law and Order.
That's what That's what they basically thought that I was doing.
(20:03):
And just like I told them, I said, no, this
is basic information. I mean, you know, I had to
actually read a lot of terminology. I had to understand
everything that I was reading in their reports. Some things
I didn't understand and I had to go and look
it up. Well what does this mean when they say this?
What is what does these code me? And police language?
(20:26):
So in order for me to understand that, I had
to actually reach out to a couple of police officer
of friends that I know. Had to reach out to
so share of people that I know and to try
to figure out the terminology so I can understand on
their level. Same with the autopsic reports. A lot of
medical terminology I didn't know, so as a mom I
(20:48):
had to take off my mom emotional world and put
on my investigative mode. Had and tried to figure out
what happened to my son. So I wanted to know
all the ins and outs, how the bullet travel everything.
And people were like, this is just too much. It's
too much, You're doing too much, and I will tell them, no,
I need to know. I need to know how how
(21:10):
did my son pass away? I need to know. Together
with the Invisible Institute, Chapearl continued to advocate for the
release of footage from Courtney's final moments, and finally the
police agreed to turn it over. One and a half
years after Courtney's death, I asked Chaparl what it was
like to hold those videos in her hands for the
(21:32):
first time. You know, I remember receiving the videos in
my mailbox and I had prepared myself all right, came
up in my room, set up the DVD player, got
(21:52):
prepared to watch it. I prayed before I loaded it
because I knew it was going to be hard to
actually see it. I pop it in and it tells
me it's in a format that I can't even read.
So I remember feeling this, this horrible, horrible feeling like
(22:14):
they're playing with me, They're playing with my emotions. They
knew that they sent me a format that I couldn't read,
so I remember just crying out and I called the
Invisible Institute to ask them if they can decode it.
So the moment that we get the video tape decoded,
I remember the Invisible Institute being with me, and all
(22:37):
I could see is my son just like reaching up
on his knees, begging them to help, begging. He surrounded
by eight to ten cops and my son is begging
to be helped. And then the video cuts away and
(22:58):
focuses on the police station for two minutes, and so
I'm like, what is happening to my son? I'm panicking
because I don't even know what's happening at this point.
Why would the video just automatically turn away from the
scene into we're watching the police station. And then the
(23:22):
next frame is when they aggressively picked up my son
off the ground, throw him against the police car and
then onto the gurney as if he was a ragged
out And that's why I often tell people, it's so hard,
(23:43):
it's so hard to even imagine the emotions that my son.
I just know my son was just so confused, like
police are supposed to be here to serve and protect you,
and I'm shocked, I'm scared what's happening. And this is
(24:05):
what his final moments were, and he was by himself.
And I told people all the time that's like the
hardest thing for me as a mom to know that
he endured all this by himself, and there was nobody
there who cared enough for him to help him through
(24:28):
this and to comfort him in these moments. Not a
soul was there. Yeah, we'll be back in a moment
(24:50):
with a slight change of plans. Over the next several years,
Chapel Wells continued to push for further charity around what
actually happened to her son, Courtney Copeland. In September, she
received some news from the City of Chicago. Chaparral's advocacy
(25:10):
had paid off. The Office of the Inspector General, an
independent watchdog agency, had decided to launch a formal investigation
into Courtney's case. The investigation is currently under way. Where
do you go from here, Chaparral. A lot of people say,
you know, don't put too much stock and what this
(25:31):
report shows m hm. But I think that what happened
to Courtney has to be addressed on all levels of
city government, state government, federal government, because I feel that
these incidents occur far more frequently than police shootings, but
(25:58):
they don't get the highlight and the notoriety because it's
not the police pulling the trigger or a beat down
or a knee on the neck. But these type of
incidents of racial profiling and the police accountability need to
(26:18):
be addressed. So I'm looking for more legislative changes to
see if the Inspector General kid make UH policy changes
that would change the policy from they can intervene until
they must intervene to help to save more lives. Because
(26:38):
the reality is is that, like I said, it wasn't
the fact that Courtney was shot, it was the lack
of urgency to his care. You know, recently, UH Offers
of French was shot in Chicago and she was killed.
I listened to that traffic on the police scanner that day,
(27:00):
and I was listening in real time. I saw how
they move heaven and earth to get her to the
nearest trauma center as they should. As they should, But
that same care that they put for offers of French
should go for every citizen in Chicago in the United States.
(27:20):
There should be no respect of person because of their title.
But everybody deserves a fighting chance. And so if we
make these legislative changes to ensure that everyone has the
opportunity at life, then that would be justice for Courtney.
(27:43):
M hm. Did you ever find your relationship at the
police changing throughout this process? I mean, how you approach
that change in any way? Well, I would say we
still have a contentious relationship. I would say that I
still have no faith in them that they would actually
(28:03):
solve Courtney's murder. But I'm hoping that we can come
to a clear understanding that Coordinate deserves justice. This was
not for me um an investigation on the police to
try to entrap them or to make them look like
the bad guy. I wanted justice for my son. It
(28:27):
didn't matter if it was the police. If it was
a stranger whoever did this to Courtney, they deserved to
be prosecuted and convicted of this crime. So that was
my only goal, and I was always telling them, I
want you to treat my son as if it was yours.
How would you go about handling this investigation if it
(28:49):
was your child on that slab instead of mine? Mm hmm.
I'm curious to know how having clarity around Courtney's death
will impact your life on a personal level. Aside from
the advocacy part. I know there's nothing I could do.
(29:10):
I know as a mother, I cannot change what happened.
I don't even know if me being there would have
been any different. But for me, the clarity I have
is more introspective about life and how fragile it is,
(29:30):
and how that you live every moment as if it's
your last, and you love harder and you love more freely.
So that's the clarity I've learned. And all of this
is to make sure you tell everyone that you love them,
(29:51):
because I didn't know that I wasn't going to be
able to tell my son that, and I only can
tell him and actions and my continuous fight for him.
But I wish I had that moment to say that
for him to hear it. Do you think this reflects
a change and how you how you thought about your
(30:14):
goals throughout, which is at the beginning, you're seeking clarity
around the facts, and actually now it's it's also clarity
around how you plan to live the rest of your life.
Like that's what you ended up getting from it. Yeah,
you know that. It's this poem that I often quote.
The hardest thing was hearing that my son had passed away,
(30:38):
But now it's the hardest thing is going on and
living without him. Now that I've heard that, and and
that is that is the truth? How do you? How
do you continue to move forward and go on? And
I hope that what the world gathers from Courtney, it's
just the love, just to love, to show the love
(31:02):
and not be afraid to show how you feel about someone.
One of the greatest things about Courtney that I learned
and his death is that he had this keen ability
to make everyone feel special, to make everyone feel loved.
And if you ask any of his friends, they'll say,
(31:24):
Courtney was my best friend. Usually we only get one,
but he made everyone feel like they were his best friend,
and so I'm learning from him those qualities of making
myself vulnerable and to show love more often has telling
(31:46):
Courtney's story, including the story of how well he lived
his life, helped you heal in ways that you couldn't
have anticipated. I would say, yes, Um, as a parent,
you grow up to cheen your children, the morals guidance.
You know you're still you're instilling so much into them,
(32:08):
and you're like, I want, I hope these kids are
listening to me. And what what what I found out
in his death is that he was the way I
raised him is the way that he was living. And
so I find so much comfort and so much joy
and hearing other people talk about my son the way
(32:29):
that he made them feel. I recall, uh, the weekend
that Courtney had passed away, I opened my home to
the public because it was just so much outpouring of
grief and they were grieving with me, grieving for me,
and we were all united in this great loss of
(32:50):
Courtney Copeland. And I had opened my house to anyone
who wanted to come and pay their respects. And I
remember gentleman walking into my home and he told me,
he said, you don't know me, and I don't even
know your son, but I saw his photo on the
TV that he had been killed. And he handed me
(33:14):
this koran. And he hands me this koran. He said, ma'am,
your son came into my restaurant about a month ago
and he saw me. He was sitting with his girlfriend.
He saw me. He said, I was in so much
pain that day, and he said, your son saw the
(33:34):
anguish in my face. And he walked over to me
and he said, Sir, I don't know you, but I
just want to encourage you today. I want to give
you some hope and tell you that whatever it is
that you're going through, that God is going to be
able to help you. He started crying. He said, because
(33:57):
your son came to me in that day and he
gave me those words of encouragement and told me to
keep going and whatever I was going through it was
gonna be okay. I'm here today. And he turned around,
he walked out, and I just like, oh my God,
And you have so much You have so much joy
(34:21):
and sadness at the same time. But you as a parent,
you said, my child has been listening in there and
they're validating you as a parent. And so I thought
that was just like so profound that we wanted him
to grow up and treat people with dignity and respect,
(34:44):
and that's the way I would want him to have
been treated as well. Yeah. Yeah, there's an update to
chapel story that I wanted to share with you. When
(35:05):
she and I initially spoke, the Inspector General's investigation was
still under way, but Chaparl was recently notified that the
investigation has wrapped up and a final report has been
sent to the City of Chicago. The report is slated
to be released to the public in the coming months.
For more details on the evolution of Courtney's case, you
(35:25):
can listen to the podcast Somebody, which was named a
finalist for a Pullit Surprise this past year. Hey, thanks
so much for listening to A Slight Change of Plans
this year and for sharing the show with others. We're
hard at work on a new batch of episodes, but
(35:47):
in the meantime, you can check out the feed for
episodes you may not have heard yet. From the whole
Slight Change family, We're wishing you a peaceful and RESTful holiday.
We'll see you in the new year. A Slight Change
of Plans is created, written in executive produced by me
Maya Shunker. The Slight Change family includes Tyler Green Our
(36:08):
senior producer, Jan Guerra Our senior editor, Ben Holiday our
sound engineer, Emily ross Deck our associate producer, and Neil
A Bell Our executive producer. Louis Skara wrote our theme
song in Ginger Smith helped to range the vocals. A
Slight Change of Plants the production of Pushkin Industries so
big thanks to everyone there, including Malcolm Bladwell, Jacob Weisburg,
(36:32):
Lee Talmlott and Heather Faith and of course a very
special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight
Change of Plans on Instagram at Dr Maya Shunker. Can
you just quickly share the story of finding out what
Courtney named you on his phone? You know, we're going
(36:55):
through his phone and we're looking at all the messages.
It says, oh, whose number is this? And the blow
and behold it's my number, and I'm like, you know,
as any bother as He's like, here should go again. Oh,
but he would also call me mama bear. He would
(37:17):
like Mama Bear, Mama Bear. And I think that that
that is just it and Mama Bear is fighting for him,
and he knew that whatever situation, whether it was oh,
Mama Bear, I was gonna be somebody that's gonna be
determined to find out what happened to him.
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