Ep 07: The Politics of Conflict - Featuring Ibtihaj Muhammad

This week's "The Filibuster" focuses on the ongoing war in Gaza and challenges why it seems impossible to discuss without someone being labeled as an anti-Semite and a terrorist sympathizer. Jewish Currents editor-at-large, CUNY professor, and MSNBC analyst Peter Beinart and Jewish sports journalist Eric Adelson both offer their expertise. Then, former Olympic fencer and New York Times best-selling author Ibtihaj Muhammad joins Jemele. Ibtihaj connects her experience as the first-ever Muslim American Olympian to wear a hijab to her continued purpose as an activist. Ibtihaj shares her pro-Palestinian beliefs and why she remains undeterred by the backlash she's received. As always, Jemele answers a listener question — this time, from someone who wants to know how athletes can balance making their political opinions while facing limitations. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jammel Hill and welcome to
politics and iHeart podcast and unbothered network production. Time to
get spolitical. I've been relatively quiet about the warre in Gayza,
I'll be honest. Some of it had to do with

(00:21):
my own lack of bandwidth, but mostly it's been because
I was trying to figure out the how, as in,
how can I thoughtfully discuss a conflict that dates back
nearly a century now. After doing some more thinking, I
realized therein lies the problem. We can't talk about it
without someone being labeled as antisemitic or being labeled as

(00:41):
a terror sympathizer. Sports can sometimes be a place where
common ground is found, even with the thorniest and most
complicated of issues. It's what makes sports unique. Sports has
the ability to be a unifier because sports often forces
fans of different races, genders, and socioeconomic background together to
root for a common interest where there be a specific

(01:04):
team or a specific player. But the Warren Gaza is
such a polarizing emotional topic that common ground is not
often found in the world of sports about this issue.
During the Summer Olympics in Paris, Israeli athletes were subjected
to protests and death threats. During the Israel Paraguay soccer match,
spectators unfurled a banner that read genocide Olympics. Other spectators,

(01:27):
many of whom were wearing Palestinian flags, booed the Israeli
athletes when their national anthem was played. In judo, two
Arab athletes refused to shake the hands of two Israeli
athletes from their sport. French authorities called the gestures from
fans quote provocative gestures of an anti Semitic nature. Obviously,
the world was understandably horrified on October seventh when the

(01:49):
terrorist organization Hamas attacked Israel, killing twelve hundred Israelis and
taking more than two hundred and fifty hostages. But in
response to the attack, Israel has engaged in a relentless
assault on the Palestinian people, killing more than forty thousand
of them. The targets of these attacks aren't usually the
terrorists who were responsible for the October seventh attack, but

(02:10):
rather civilians, many of whom are elderly and children. There
have been food blockades and wholesale destruction of Gaza's health
care system and infrastructure. Eighty five percent of Palestinians living
in Gaza have been forced to flee their homes as
most of the schools and hospitals have been completely destroyed.
It is for this reason that many people felt that
Israel should have been banned from competing in the Olympics,

(02:32):
including a group of twenty six French legislators. Apartheid South
Africa being banned from the Olympics from nineteen sixty four
to nineteen eighty eight was cited as president. Now, any
reasonable mind would conclude Israel has a right to defend
itself against terrorism, but according to the International Court of Justice,
that isn't all what Israel is doing. The Court said
last January that it was quote plausible that Israel was

(02:55):
committing genocidal acts against Palestinians. Now, given the level of
destruction in cruel Palestinians have experienced, a reasonable mind would
also understand why athletes would express empathy and support for
the Palestinian citizens who have been targeted and killed, but
that's hardly the case.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
German football club Minds zero five made the decision to
terminate Awar Elgazi's contract on Friday due to posts he
made on social media concerning the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The
club cited comments and posts from the player on social
media as the reason for his contract termination, but they
did not provide specific details regarding the content of the posts.

(03:34):
Awar Elgazi, a twenty eight year old forward, had previously
been suspended by the club for a now deleted social
media post related to the Middle East conflict. The club
had initially lifted his suspension, giving him a second chance,
stating that he had spoken out against terrorism, including from Hamas,
and did not question Israel's right to exist. However, in

(03:56):
a subsequent social media post, Algazi indicated that the club
had issued its statement without his permission, reaffirming his stance
for peace and humanity and expressing concern for the innocent
and vulnerable in Gaza. He posted another statement condemning the
killing of innocent civilians in both Palestine and Israel. Before
his contract termination. German prosecutors accused Elgazi of disturbing public

(04:20):
peace by condoning criminal acts in conjunction with incitement to
hatred through his social media posts. The situation highlights the
complexities and consequences of individuals expressing their views on sensitive
geopolitical issues. On social media platforms.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
A German court ruled Elgazi was wrongfully terminated. But how
did we get to the point where athletes says support
a ceasefire in Gaza, and our critical of Israel's response
is considered to be anti Jewish or even anti Semitic,
I asked Jewish scholar Peter Binhart, the editor at large
of Jewish Currents and professor of Journalism in Political Science
at the City of New York's Newmark School of Journalism.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
The word terrorism it's used in I think very political, politicized,
and not necessarily intellectually honest ways. Right, if terrorism just
means that a government or some armed group is terrifying people, right,
If that's the root of the word terror, is that
you're inducing terror in people, right, Well, yes, Hamas definitely

(05:21):
terrified and killed, slaughtered a lot of people on a
Cober seventh, and they've done that for long before that.
In fact, a friend of mine was killed in a
bus bombing that Hamas perpetrated in the mid nineteen ninety.
But it's also the case, if we're just talking about
terrifying people, that the Israeli government is terrifying a lot
of people in Gaza now and killing very very many
of them and terrifying people. So the word terrorists, I think, unfortunately,

(05:45):
really tends to only get applied to Palestinians or Arabs
and Muslims. It's not a term that's used in a
kind of a non racial or non religious way, which
is why I think it's a problematic term the way
it's often used. I think what happens is that there
have been a lot of people, especially over for many years,
but especially since over the last year, where we've seen

(06:06):
Gaza literally completely devastated, you know, most of the buildings destroyed,
most of the people made homeless, most of the hospitals,
most of the universities just do you know, brought to
complete rubble, you know, and with American weapons, mostly American weapons,
And a lot of people have looked at this and
they said, this doesn't seem right to me. This is

(06:28):
not what America should be doing in the world. And
these are often the same kinds of people who would
have been outraged by America's policies when we invaded a Rock,
or America support for Aparte, or America's wars in Central America. Right,
it's the same kind of people people who just basically
have a human rights kind of perspective and see their
own country doing things that they think violate that, and

(06:50):
they want to say something. You know, Muhammad Ali opposing
the Vietnam War. Right, There's a long history of this.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's a history so complicated that I can't begin to
sum up the entire totality of this conflict. But as
a journalist, you have two very important superpowers that always
are at your disposal, the ability to question and the
ability to listen, And sometimes the latter is more important
than the former. My dear friend, Eric Adelson is a
freelance sports journalist. He's also Jewish, and as someone who

(07:17):
has covered six Olympics, he has a deep understanding of
how the Olympics have been the backdrop to some painful
moments in the Jewish Palestinian conflict, including the nineteen seventy
two Munich Olympics, which were marked by a devastating attack
on Israeli athletes.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
Monday marked fifty years since gunman attacked the Israeli team
at the nineteen seventy two Munich Olympics.

Speaker 5 (07:37):
When German police close in all the hostages and eight
terrorists die during an airport shootout.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Palestinian militant group Black September claimed responsibility for the attack,
which shot the world. Millions of viewers watched an unfold
on live TV.

Speaker 5 (07:53):
Despite protests, the games go on as israel Berries are
dead and the world marns the innocent victims of the
Munich massacre.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
The Olympic village didn't have tight security in the early
hours of the morning of September fifth, nineteen seventy two,
when the militants broke into the Israeli apartments, which tipped
off a bloody twenty four hour standoff between the gunmen
and unarmed athletes who tried to defend themselves. One rescue
attempt was called off when police realized it was being

(08:22):
broadcast live. That's when German authorities agreed to take the
attackers and a number of hostages to the airport.

Speaker 5 (08:29):
They're at the firston Feldbrook air base they had their
gun battle.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
Another rescue attempt failed once a gunfight broke out at
an air base, which finally ended when the surviving.

Speaker 6 (08:38):
Gunmen were captured.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
The attackers wanted more than two hundred Palestinians held in
Israeli prisons to be released, along with German Red Army
Faction radicals Andreas Bader and Ulrich Meinhoff. They also wanted
a plane to head to the Middle East. In the end,
eleven members of the Israeli team were killed, along with
one German police officer and five of the Palace Indian Gunman.

(09:01):
German and Olympic authorities faced bitter criticism for their response
to the attack.

Speaker 7 (09:06):
I think that one of the limitations in terms of
how this is covered is the recency bias that a
lot of people are looking at this entire issue from
a very new perspective when it's an incredibly old story. So,
as a Jewish American, I grew up and I was

(09:28):
told stories about Munich nineteen seventy two. And I think
a lot of Americans they grow up with the Olympics,
and they hear about Carl Lewis, and they hear about
Michael Johnson, Mary lou Retten, Michael Phelps, Usaint pol But
a lot of I would say most Jewish Americans, they
hear about Munich. And the lesson of Munich is that

(09:50):
Jewish athletes, Israeli athletes just are not safe anywhere. And
that was proof of it, and those Olympics were supposed
to be I would they necessarily do over, but some
kind of retribution for what happened in nineteen thirty six
with Hitler, and it was in Germany. It was supposed

(10:10):
to be much better and Germany botched the security and
Israeli athletes died, and it was one of the darkest
moments in Olympics history and still very much on the
minds of almost all Jews who watched the Olympics and
cheer for Israel. So this is something that pre dates

(10:31):
October seventh, It predates the century, goes back decades and
centuries back to the Roman empirety but further than that.
So I think that the attention on the matter is
very important, and for athletes to have voices is very
important and not be censured or censored for things that

(10:54):
they say. And I think that that is a huge
advantage of the Olympics that we do have global forum
to sometimes talk about these things.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
And what that requires is something our society isn't really
good at these days, and that's nuanced. You should be
able to support the Jewish and Palestinian existence. You should
be able to call out anti Semitism without being islamophobic.
You should be able to criticize the brutality and extremism
of the Israeli government and show support for suffering Palestinians

(11:23):
without being labeled a terrorist sympathizer. Here's Peter Beinhardt again
saying what I said, only smarter.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of folks who
don't really want everybody to be able to enter into
this conversation. And I think that's because there is a
potential fragility of the kind of unconditional support for Israel
that kind of dominates American politics in the Republican Party
and even the Biden administration. That if more people enter
this conversation who have progressive minded views, I think that

(11:51):
would be challenged more so. Unfortunately, a lot of people
Sometimes people end up paying a high price for trying
to enter in this conversation. But I really look, there
are some people who are anti Semitic, and if people
are anti Semitic, they should be called out for being antisemitic.
But I really believe that anyone of goodwill, who cares
about human beings, cares about human dignity and freedom, should
be able to have a perspective on this conversation and

(12:13):
enter into this conversation and should be prove innocent of
considered innocent of anti Semitism until proven guilty, not the
other way around. And the truth is the great movements
for freedom, whether it was the anti Partic movement or
the civil rights movement or have always or the anti
Vietnam War, have always brought people from many, many different backgrounds,
and a lot of people who were involved in anti
Vietnam War were not experts about Vietnam. They didn't speak Vietnamese,

(12:36):
but they could see what was happening and they had
a moral impulse, right, And the same thing a lot
of people in the Anti Party who didn't know the
details about South Africa, but they had a moral impulse
and that's good. Those are the best things in our
country have come from that kind of moral impulse of
people who were directly affected working together with people who
were not directly affected but said, this is not what

(12:57):
I believe, and I think that we have the potential
to have that kind of movement for Palestinian freedom, a
movement of Palestinians and Arabs and Muslims and Jews, but
also people from every kind of background. Because a lot
of people also have in their own personal experience, Even
if they've never been to Israel and Palestine, they can
see they have in their own family history or in
their own personal experience, something that they have experienced that

(13:20):
allows them to understand and feel a sense of solidarity
with people who are not treated equally.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approve this message. Up next
on his politics, a former Olympic medalist who has expressed
public support for Palestinians and has had to suffer some
consequences because of it. She is the first American Muslim
woman in Olympic history to compete with the Hajab. She
also is author of multiple children's books, including her latest,

(13:46):
The BOLDUS Wife. Coming up on Spolitics ifty Hajaj Muhammad. So,
if the has thank you so much for joining me.
I'm going to start this podcast with the way I
start with every guest that appears on politics and that

(14:08):
is named the athlete or the moment that made you
love sports.

Speaker 6 (14:15):
That's such a great question, I don't you know. I
would say that Serena was very pivotal in my decision
to explore professional sports. But I grew up the child
of you know, I had a family member who worked

(14:35):
at NBC Olympics, and so every single summer or even
Winter Games, we were just in front of the television
because in my mind, my aunt played a part in
making that happen. So I've been a sports baby, I
think my whole life.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Well, yeah, so I guess the answer would be it
was your aunt who is responsible for you sort of
that early interest that you had in the Olympics.

Speaker 6 (15:00):
In the Olympics for sure, but you know, as African Americans,
we're either outside or you know, being active playing a sport,
watching sports, I think collectively, and so sports, I think
and our family has just woven into the fabric of
kind of who we are.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
So what was sort of your earliest kind of memorable
Olympic memory.

Speaker 6 (15:21):
Definitely sitting in front of the television at my aunt's house.
She's not there, but with my uncle and my family,
like my siblings, my parents sitting in front of the
TV and watching watching sports, whether it be track or
field or even boxing. I remember my aunt did. There
was one games where specifically she was working on boxing.

(15:45):
So I think those are my memories that big you know,
box television, when TV's kind of sat in like a
piece of furniture.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
Oh yeah, Like I feel like I remember that Bix
said that big.

Speaker 6 (16:00):
Like a big wouldan like like piece of furniture, but
it had a television in it, Like I remember watching
Olympics like that.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Now, of course, you know your Olympic history and it's
literally you are part of Olympic history, not just because
you participated, but obviously because of what you accomplished there
and also being the first American athlete to compete in
the Olympics while wearing ahod job winning the bronze for
the US fencing team. But you know, you decided to retire,

(16:32):
and I believe you decided to retire. What was it
twenty nineteen?

Speaker 6 (16:35):
I think it was twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Twenty seventeen. Wow, Okay, it seems like it's been much
shorter than that. So when you decided that it was
it for you and fencing, how did you How did
you know your fencing career was over.

Speaker 6 (16:51):
I feel like a part of me knew Apic Games
that that was going to be it, and a lot
of it I think that the decision didn't always feel
like it was mine. I felt like I grew tired
of some of the politics that existed within my sport.

(17:16):
If I had the ability to just train, and I loved,
I think all those pieces that make you, I think,
a phenomenal athlete. I liked the dedication, I love the routine.
I liked that I could commit myself to practice, to
training to get better. I kind of felt like I

(17:37):
could always see those results. They felt very tangible to me.
But it was the politics that I could never get with.
And a lot of that maybe because I'm just not
a combative person, but because I was faced with so
much adversity, and I think a lot of it had
to do with things that were out of my control,
like me being ethnically different from everyone else, so religiously

(17:59):
different from everyone else. And then on top of that,
our sport is an individual sport first, So in those cases,
in sports like that, there's just a lot of contention
that exists because the reality is people want each other's
spots so on. You know this this facade that you

(18:19):
all see a spectators, especially watching the Olympics, Everything seems great.
You know, there's high fives, there's hugs. But I think
the underbelly of that is you know that your competitors
before your teammates.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Do you think, and we'll dive a little bit deeper,
because you left a lot of meat there on the
table about the politics that you face. Do you think
that you might have stuck in it longer if you
were let's say, a like your road and path would
have been different, as a better way to phrase it,

(18:55):
if you would have been a Christian athlete. Now we
know there's not a lot of black people in fencing,
but I think the religious component of this is very different.
So let's say you were a Christian athlete and not
a Muslim athlete. Do you think your pathway would have
been different?

Speaker 6 (19:08):
I can't honestly answer that question. I have no idea.
And that's because when you live at the intersection of
different identities, you don't ever stop and ask, you know,
the person or persons who are kind of committing those
bigoted acts or these discriminatory, you know, aggressions towards you.

(19:33):
You don't stop and ask like, Hey, is it because
I'm Muslim or is it because I'm black? You know
what I mean, It's because I'm better than you, Like
who knows? So I don't know if you know some
of the things that I face in some of those
some of those obstacles were because I was Muslim, or
if it had nothing to do with any of my identities.
To be honest, I'll never know the answer to that.

(19:55):
But I do have moments in my career stand out
to me because you know, we are moments in my
career that stands out to me because my religious beliefs
were kind of, uh, you know, brought to the surface
when really it's like, what are my religious beliefs? How

(20:16):
does that factor into me being on this team or
me playing a sport that I love? To me, you know,
why is religion even a topic of conversation within you know,
the bounds of our team dynamic?

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, I mean it shouldn't be. You're right, but I
think because not only are you Muslim, you chose to
present as Muslim by wearing a h jab, and so
the immediately when you show up anywhere, for some people,
your very existence I don't even think for some people,
I think it's a reality, like your existence is political

(20:51):
to them, and so immediately you're causing a reaction just
by showing up. So how did you as you were,
you know, in this sport that you love, Like, how
did you deal with trying to shield yourself or at
least protect yourself from these bigot reactions.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
When I was younger, I think that my parents played
a big part. Even my brother sometimes played a big
part in creating that space where you felt safe. As
I move more into the professional level, a lot of
it was just trying to stay true to yourself and
stay really myopic in the goal, and for me, the

(21:31):
goal was to become a better athlete. So I was
never caught in the weeds in trying to be something
I wasn't or trying to present myself in ways that
kind of would lessen the blows that I was getting
from them. I just, I think, really just learned to

(21:54):
ignore it. And I'm thankful because I feel like had
I gotten caught up in going back and forth or
constantly feeling like I needed to defend myself, I would
like they would have they would win, because then you are,
you become distracted. Competing becomes a lot harder because you're

(22:16):
being weighed down by these different, you know, instances that
you've you've now kind of unboxed in your life. And
as black athletes, we're already carrying a lot. Every time
I felt like I stepped onto the defencing strip. I
was carrying other people's implicit biases before you know, the

(22:39):
referee even said fence. And when I was competing, I
don't know if I was necessarily like super conscious of it.
Subconscious yes, But now looking back and seeing how, especially
as an adult, seeing how implicit bias changes the way

(23:03):
people interact with one another, how they treat one another.
And I play, I compete in a sport that the
referee is the end all be all in the decision
of who sportes the point, so it you know, it
begs the question how often are points being taken away
from you? Or is the referee really being true to

(23:24):
the sport and being honest to both athletes and you know,
giving the point to to the to the person who's
deserving of the point, or does implicit bias play play
a part in his decision, his or her decision making.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
You mentioned about just this natural burden that black athletes
are forced to carry twenty sixteen in Rio, was your
first Olympics correct, first and only Olympic person on the Olympics. Yeah,
you know, carrying all this weight that that first and
only bigs were you actually able in real time to

(24:05):
enjoy the momentous achievement of being an Olympian.

Speaker 6 (24:11):
No, I would say, no, I my media questions were
all political questions. My teammates got what did you eat
for breakfast? How excited are you to be at the Olympics.
And my questions were about Trump, they were about the
Muslim band, they were about you know, my my ethnic origin,

(24:34):
things like that, and I felt like they were heavy
questions that I was being dealt and my teammates, you know,
their questions were vastly different, especially when it came to
like media Day or any type of you know, panel
kind of questions that we received, and I felt it.

(24:57):
I felt like at the Olympics, I I had to
be a good representation for the communities that I was
a part of, whether that be the Muslim community, the
Black community. You know. I wanted to show people and
show most importantly, I wanted to show Muslim women that

(25:17):
we could be successful in sport. And so I feel
like a part of me already did that job by
being there at the Olympics, you know, and then winning
a medal, you know, was just icing on the cake,
but it was also showing young black kids that they
could have a seat at that table to be a
part of, you know, the fencing community. Like still you

(25:41):
can go to fencing tournaments, especially in the weapon that
I fence as a woman saberist, and you can find
no black athletes, And the way that I see it,
there's still is there still needs to be changed in
our sport. And at the Olympics, I felt like, of
course I was really excited to be there, but I

(26:03):
felt like I was carrying something with me, and a
part of that is being really thankful and appreciative of
the moment. But I felt like my job wasn't done.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Do you know you wound up winning the bronze, which
is an incredible achievement. When you reflect on it, do
you wonder if maybe they hadn't politicized your presence being there?
Do you wonder how much that might have impacted how
you perform?

Speaker 6 (26:32):
Sometimes? You know, I look at my individual performance and
I don't think if I really tried, I could articulate
how nervous I was. To give you an idea of
a fencing tournament like Son's Olympic Games, it is you
are in a random country, in a random venue, and

(26:56):
the spectators are maybe whatever host country you're in, like
say you're in Greece, maybe there's a few Greek families,
but the spectators are coaches, trainers, and athletes. That's who's why. Like,
we don't sell out stadiums in our sport by any
stretch of the imagination. So to have that be your
norm and then go to the Olympics when there's like

(27:19):
you can barely even hear yourself think because there's so
many people. To be honest, it felt kind of like
a World Championships, you know, and you know, you have
World Championships three times, and then you have an Olympic game,
so it's kind of that same level. And I felt
that nervousness before, but for whatever reason, by the grace

(27:40):
of God, at the team event, I felt like I
just didn't have any nerves, Like I was ready to go,
and I felt like in the day of the individual
competition prepared me for the team event.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
You know, you said a moment ago that you forced
that is probably too strong a words, but you felt
like the overwhelming nature of the politics is what ultimately
made you decide to walk away from fencing. Since making
that decision, have you regretted it at all.

Speaker 6 (28:11):
No, I think that my time in the sport it was,
it was perfect, and had there not been COVID, maybe
I would feel, you know, some level of like I
would feel remorse in walking away so early and not

(28:32):
really giving myself an adequate amount of time. You know,
I competed my first international competition. I was twenty one
years old, twenty two years old, and for a lot
of athletes in our sport, they're competing from a really,
really young age. They're in an international competition at eleven
twelve years old. So I feel like my career started

(28:55):
later than most people. But you know, when you look
at my retirement in twenty sixteen, the next Olympics wasn'tun
till twenty twenty one, and that's I mean, not only
is that a large span of time there were people training,
you know, in their backyards because clubs were closed and

(29:17):
you couldn't really you know, have close interaction with anyone else,
So it's like, how are you training during that time?
I feel like it would have been really difficult. And
also a lot of my training I had very like
my coaches weren't the most dependable people anyway, So I

(29:37):
can't imagine during COVID in the mix and you know,
having to try to chase somebody down for you know,
a lesson and training during a global epidemic. I think
it would have been really tough.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I guess from that perspective considering the very next Olympics,
like a whole world had change that that. I'm sure
you saw U with some of the athletes went through
you know, mentally physically, and you probably were thinking, eh,
kind of glad I'm in it. But I guess maybe
regret or remorse isn't the right answer. I just wondered
if you missed it at all?

Speaker 6 (30:13):
I miss it in my day to day. I feel
like I missed through routine, you know. I think that
it in how my life is now. It's like you
don't know if you're going to be in New York
or la or if you're going to be in Paris,
Like you just don't know. And with sport, it's you know,
you kind of we have the same World Cups every
single year and you have panamsa World Championship. So I

(30:35):
think that I kind of missed that, like knowing you
know that I'm going to wake up at five point
thirty to go training. I have lunch and then I
have you know, the second training. Like I kind of
missed that, like just the regiment and the schedule of training.
But it's the Olympic Games where I'm just I think
when I really have fomo and for a hot second,

(30:57):
you're like, I retired too early. But then the Olympics
ends and you're like, nah, don't miss it.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
You know, you said something interesting about the Paris Olympics.
You said, I want to make sure that I quote
you correctly. You wrote on in an Instagram caption. That is,
you said that the Paris Olympics will be remembered as
the games that violated human rights? What did you mean
by that?

Speaker 6 (31:23):
So the French Olympic Committee in September of twenty twenty
three announced that French athletes, specifically French athletes who are
Muslim and observed hijab would not be allowed to compete for,
you know, the French national team and represent France at

(31:43):
the Olympic Games. And in my eyes and in the
eyes of you know, anyone with a conscience and moral compass,
that is a gross, you know, human rights violation to
tell Muslim women that they're not allowed to compete, and
this coming from the host country that they're not allowed

(32:04):
to compete in in the hedge AaB. You know, I
was shocked because, yeah, I mean France, They've been discriminating
against Muslims for a really long time, and I think
that they're just chipping away at a much a much
larger end goal when it comes to Islamophobia, to be

(32:27):
quite frank, but you know, for the host country to
announce this and for the IOC, the International Olympic Committee,
to take no substantial action at all over that next
you know year, and yeah, over that next year, I just,
you know, I felt like we, as Muslim women around

(32:49):
the globe were let down, you know, by the IOC,
by allies, by friends, and especially by even other athletes.
How can you know and be presented with this information
and say nothing to me? Sports and activism go hand

(33:10):
in hand, and I'll never understand an athlete, especially athletes
of color, who come from who may come from underrepresented communities,
who you know, may face their own microaggressions within their sport,
to choose to say nothing, to not lend your platform

(33:31):
to advocate for this group of women who are being
mistreated by the host country. You know, I just felt
really really disappointed in a lot of my fellow athletes.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Why do you think that is or do you think
this is because of this particular issue, like if it
were something that were not closely tied to religion that
and this is to give them no excuse, but like,
do you think because of what it was tied to
that that made other your Olympic colleagues less comfortable speaking out?

Speaker 6 (34:15):
It's possible, probable, but you know who knows. I when
you look at different sporting events around the world, when
you look at even the twenty sixteen Olympic Games in Brazil,
I'm sure you remember the conversation of Zeka and crime
and poverty and all these different things that we were

(34:39):
going to be met with, you know, by this like
big boogeyman that was in Brazil. I feel like you
don't see that for all host countries that you know,
are hosting sporting events, like Qatar who hosted the World Cup,
it was like human rights violations and that's all anyone
ever wanted to talk about. But where is that same

(35:01):
energy for the Western countries or the European countries, the
white countries that hosts the sporting events, I feel like
the energy from the media is always different.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Now you are somebody who is never shied away from
using your platform and your status as an athlete to
speak up on your opinion, to be outspoken, to be
involved in activist causes. You have been very supportive of
the fight that Palestinians are going through, and you've deeply

(35:38):
involved yourself in that issue, which, as you know, just
by nature, is very polarizing for a lot of people
in this country. As you begin to speak out more
and on behalf of Palestinians who are undergoing terrible atrocities
in the Middle East, what has been the reaction that

(35:59):
you you've received to that when you've used your voice
for an issue again that's very divisive for people.

Speaker 6 (36:06):
As a Muslim American, we've talked and learned about the
plight of the Palestinians for like, to be honest, my
whole life. If you go to any Muslim function, there
is this conversation around the Palestinian cause, and you know,

(36:31):
whether it's lending financial support, there's some type of fundraiser
that's happening, or just conversations about the occupation that the
Palestinians are under and the very real existence that they
live under an apartheid regime of Israel. And now, you know,

(36:59):
post October seventh, twenty twenty three, it seems like the
tide has shifted a little and you see more people,
especially gen Z, become hip to what's happening there. And
I see as a public figure, the very real effects

(37:20):
of what it means to be outspoken in support of
the Palestinian cause, and I see that they're I know,
friends who have lost their jobs. I personally have am
experiencing shadow banning where my posts aren't seen by very

(37:40):
many people. And it's also affected my stream of income,
as it has a lot of my friends who are
in my field or who kind of have the similar
structure in the way that they know make money, and
as like, you know, my faith teaches me to speak

(38:01):
out against, you know, injustice. So there's not anything that
I would change personally, but it is really upsetting to
watch a lot of my friends or even people that
I follow now a whole entire year later when this
is bought to the this is bought you know, to

(38:22):
everyone's television screens and in your your your feed, whether
you like it or not, it's there, you know. To
ignore it, I think goes against are very nature as
African Americans. Even like if I just were to take
every move everyone else from the equation and say where

(38:44):
is the black community, It's to me a shocking you know.
I think a lot of the historical figures that have
always meant so much to me, whether it be Malcolm
X or Muhammad Ali, I feel like even those figures
are spoke to the plight of the Palestinian. So this

(39:05):
isn't something that started a year ago, you know. This
is something that has been going on for decades, and
to say nothing, whether it be about the genocide in Palestine,
the you know, the famine that's happening in Sudan, the
bombing that we're seeing in Lebanon, or just the fact

(39:29):
that our tax dollars are funding this, to me is infuriating,
Like we live at the very top of the tax bracket,
and I'm like, so all that money you're taking out
of my pocket is going to carpet bombing children. I
just for me, it hurts me at my core, and
I don't To me, it's a very helpless situation, Like

(39:51):
I feel helpless and for a long time. I would
say over the last year, and I've talked about this
with you know, even my team, I've really struggle to
even be present on social media because of the images
that you see, but also a very real fear about
even posting. You know, we see people literally lose their job,

(40:14):
lose their livelihood, and it becomes, I think, this internal
fight of I do want to lend my support. What
happens when I do? And you know, what is it
that I what is it that I'm even supposed to say,
you know, to help change our funding of you know,

(40:34):
the annihilation of these people.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
You know, certainly there have been many examples of people
who just in voicing concerns and what I've considered to
be fair criticism, that they have been branded anti Semitic
just for asking questions. So that's something I definitely want
to dig a little bit deeper into. But first we're
going to take a quick break and we'll be back

(40:58):
with more with empty hash. So we were talking before
the break about just sort of the thought process and
really the risk of expressing any kind of pro Palestinian support,

(41:19):
asking or raising any questions about the US and involvement.
How concerned were you that people would label you anti
semitic because you're clearly very very very well versed on
the issues. But how concerned were you that you might
be mistakenly labeled and it's anti Semitic?

Speaker 6 (41:38):
Not too concerned. I feel like it's part for the course,
you know, when you are speaking out against something like
this that's been going on for so long. I knew
that I knew that that would happen. And I feel
like I've been labeled in anti semitic for at least
the past three or four years, so I wasn't surprised,
you know. I think generally, I'm not super certained about myself.

(42:01):
I have to I have to say that, like you know,
it's it's really more so for me and trying to
encourage other people to use their platform. You know, how
many people exist on Earth. There's a lot of us,
and I think collectively we can you know, invokee real change.
But we also have to believe in our power. And

(42:21):
whether you have you know, ten million followers or if
you have a few followers, I think that you owe
it to our global community to you know, uplift those
who are facing such gross injustices like the Palestinians. I really, morally,

(42:43):
I don't think it's right to sit and say nothing,
or to say I see both sides, or even to
call this a war. There are a group of people
who live under occupation and live behind a wall. They
don't have between security checkpoints. They are living under an
ethnocracy where because they are Muslim, because they are Arab,

(43:06):
they are not able to have the same rights as
an Israeli Jew. That is an apart that system. That
is Jim Crow, you know, two point zero. And we
as African Americans, we are we know what that's like.
We know what it's like to live under. If you
understand your history, if you understand American history, you know

(43:27):
what that looks like, and you know why it's wrong.
So why now in twenty twenty four we want to
take a step back and say, oh, we understand both sides.
Imagine have not having access to clean drinking water or
not having the ability to go to school. You know,
there are I think one hundred and fifty five hospitals
that have been leveled, like they don't exist in Gaza anymore.

(43:51):
If prior to that, I went to a I went
to a talk with that famous Palestinian photographer motaz's Eyza.
He was in Orange County and he was dropping some
things that I did not know that if you were
under the age of fifty five in Gaza, you can't

(44:13):
go to Jerusalem to seek medical treatment. Say you have
some I don't know, some health concern and if you're
under that age, under that threshold, you can't seek medical treatment.
And if you have something like cancer, by the time
you are you know, you go through that whole legal
system of requesting permission. He was like most people, by

(44:36):
the time you get permission to go to Jerusalem to
seek medical treatment, he was like, you're going to die.
There's no time left. That's it, you know. And I
can't imagine living in a place where my faith precedes me,
my ethnicity precedes me, and I'm not given basic human
rights because of the way that I was born. That

(45:00):
is inherently wrong. And we owe it to the people
of Palestine to say something and to invoke change. It's
our government that is funding this and giving the green
light to the Israelis to even commit things like this.
And I've always found a strange I have to say,
I have friends and I know people who say, oh,

(45:20):
I went to Israel for the summer where I went,
you know here, I went to Tel Aviv on vacation,
and I can't imagine going somewhere and seeing this wall
and seeing the lack of freedom that exists for a
group of people, and then continuing on whatever, you know,
vacation I plan to have. I can't imagine it. But

(45:41):
maybe perhaps it's because of my ancestry. I don't know,
but I just can't imagine ever thinking that that was okay.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, it is interesting over the course of my life,
like I remember as a young voter, and granted there's
not even though the US is supportive Israel stretchers back decades, right.
Social media has definitely changed how people saw the issue
when I was a young voter versus now, and a

(46:10):
lot of that is led by, as you mentioned, gen Z,
who has been able to sift through some of this
and say, hey, you know, stop And so, while obviously
it's not ultimately what you want, you know, you want
the violence to stop, but does it at least give
you some measure of hope and encouragement. The fact that

(46:31):
it does feel like people are asking questions more so
than they did before.

Speaker 6 (46:37):
I think so you know, my my, I think that
as a Muslim, I have to have faith, you know,
I have to have faith that there's going to be changed.
And I think that part of that is a part
of you know, true advocacy, that what you're working towards,
and you know, right now it feels like we're in

(46:58):
the trenches. I think collect actively as a as a
Muslim community, I think that this is this is like
nine to eleven for us in terms of the Islamophobia,
and they're very real, like hate the Muslim community is getting.
You know, we're back to that Arab boogeyman, you know,
the sensationalized thing that we all experienced just kids in

(47:20):
nine to eleven, and now I feel like, you know,
my nieces and nephews will have to unfortunately experience as
they grow up.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
I was going to ask you that because with the
ramped up, with it being an election year, and you know,
we everybody's heard Trump talking about you know, he brought
in a Muslim Muslim band before, about expanding that band
if he gets another term in office, and you know,
I didn't want it to feel like a inappropriate comparison

(47:48):
because I remember very much what the climate was like
from Muslims after nine to eleven. Yeah, I was going
to ask you, like, how do you do you feel
like it's worse than it was after nine eleven.

Speaker 6 (48:00):
You know, I was so young nine to eleven, so
I can't speak to, you know, what adults necessarily were experiencing.
But I do remember people like changing their names, you know,
like shortening their names, like you know, kind of removing
religious markers, whether that be the way that they dressed

(48:21):
or the way that they like publicly appeared, so that
they wouldn't be you know, not necessarily yeah, like mislabeled,
or even so that people wouldn't see their faith first,
so that their faith, you know, like wouldn't precede them.
And now I feel like social media has really changed everything.

(48:42):
I think it's given a lot of us courage that
we didn't have in the past. Like I don't think
we're we're our parents' generation. You know, people are like, yeah,
I may lose my job, but here's what I have
to say. You know, I'm not I'm not you know,
I'm not my parents, I'm not my grandparents. I'm different
and I because of social media, because of our access

(49:05):
to information, I think that gen Z Muslim are not.
We have more access to more like it's not that
you know, the news just can't tell you a lie,
and you're going to run with that lie and think
that that's an accepted as truth. Now you can say, no,
actually that's not true. You know, I've done my research
and I know you know that that what you've said

(49:27):
and what you've told us is A plus B equal
C is actually you know, incorrect and it's not true.
And so I think that we're a bit more fearless
as millennials in gen Z and that we are ready
to burn it all down, whether it's the uncommitted or
you know, people who don't want to necessarily put themselves
in the box. We're like, no, we we will see

(49:48):
change in our lifetime by hook or bicro.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
You know, uh, you've talked about what your life looks
like now. You know, given the fact that you're all
over the country all the time. Before we've and started
this podcast, the first thing I asked you was like,
where exactly are you having this conversation with me from?
Because you are generally all over the place. But nevertheless,
one of your post fencing career lanes has been in

(50:15):
children's books, and you've got a New York Times bestselling
children's book series which is spectacular. And I extra relate
to this now because I am also in the process
of finishing my children's book as well. But what made
children's books kind of a comfortable space and a lane

(50:35):
for you?

Speaker 6 (50:36):
I knew when I got my book deal from my memoir,
and this was I think back twenty seventeen. In the
back of my mind, I knew I wanted to go
into children's literature, and so much of my journey as
a person, as an athlete has been to invoke change,

(50:58):
and to be honest, it's not it. It's never at
the forefront. It wasn't at the forefront of my mind.
You know, when I was a kid, even coming up
through fencing, I just knew that I was always one
of one in spaces. And so that journey began to
look different when I looked at TSA and said, hey,
there's never been a black woman on the US woman's

(51:20):
saber team, and I knew it in my mind, I
could do it. I didn't have any credentials or any
of the the you know, kind of those those metals
or anything that would attest to my ability to do it.
I just believed in myself and I was like, this
is something I'm gonna do, if not for me, for
like my younger self.

Speaker 5 (51:41):
Right.

Speaker 6 (51:41):
I wanted I wanted young black girls to be able
to see themselves in that space. I wanted young must
and girls to be able to see themselves in the space.
And I feel like it's been the same with children's literature.
When I was a kid, you didn't have books like
I used to read Babysitters Club. There weren't any black
that book.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
I remember.

Speaker 6 (52:00):
I really tried to relate to the stories, but it's
not the same. It is not even American Girl. You know,
the the black doll in the black character in the
American Girls series was a slave. Looking back, I can't
believe my parents read that.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
I did not know that. I was older than you,
so I didn't I'd heard of this the series before.
I didn't know it was the slave. No, she was a.

Speaker 6 (52:25):
Slave, was to play. Her name was Addie. I had
this doll. I still have this doll at my parents' house.
All of the things that came with Addie were connected
to her living in this in like slave quarters. She
had this broom. She had this like straw bed, like
it's wild, but that that that was our reality of children.

(52:47):
So I was like, you know what, I'm going to
be the change and I'm going to write these books.
And it was something I feel like was just long overdue.
I had never had a book as a kid that
had a character in hedjab. I had never seen the
story of hijab told from the perspective of a Muslim
family that wasn't demonized, that wasn't about oppression, that didn't

(53:11):
come from some man. It's like everything about what I
know of heijab and to me within our community is
not what you see on TV. It's like for us,
it's it's very normal for you to wear hedjab and
it's a part of our culture as Muslims. I love
that The Proudest Blue, my first children's book, tells the

(53:32):
story of hedjab in a way that's so beautiful. But
how the younger sister, Fayza sees Asia's first day of
wearing hejab as this beautiful marker. And when Asia does
experience bullying, you see what she does in that moment
and she never you know, like holds onto the words
that the bully says, and to me, you don't have

(53:53):
to be Muslim to get the message of the book.
It's that you know, bullying may happen, but you know
those words of the bully aren't yours to keep. And
so it's about being proud of who you are. And
with the Kindest Read, it's about kindness, like who doesn't
want to impart the value of kindness, you know, to
their children. And what I love about my newest book,

(54:16):
The Boldest White it is I don't know if you
can see the cover, but I love that it's my
first book that has both the characters fight zen Asia
and Hedjab on the cover. But it's also, you know,
a story about fencing. It's a story about faith and
about bravery and all the things that I feel like

(54:37):
I had to be. I had to be brave, I
had to be resilient, I had to work hard in
order to realize my dreams as an Olympic medalist. And
I just like that with with children's literature, you're able
to create and show children what they can be, and

(54:58):
that's something that's often missed, I think for us as adults.
You know, we kind of get to a point where
we harden and we're like, no, this is my baseline,
this is who I am. And with children, it's just
kind of limitless imagination. And I can't wait for you know,
more kids to read this book and maybe even go
out and try fencing. You know, there's a lot of

(55:19):
missed opportunity when it comes to these more niche sports
like lacrosse or hockey or fencing. I think that once
we as African Americans get a hold of them, we're
just going to like take off and it'll blow up.
But you know, we're still I think at the we're
still at the start. We're still at the beginning of
the race in that journey.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, if you could sort of put it, capsize it, Like,
how do you want children to feel after they read
The Boldest White.

Speaker 6 (55:48):
I want them to feel brave. I want them to
think about fear from a different perspective. You know, we're
even as adults, were all all we all have moments
of doubt, we all are afraid to try new things.
But in The Boldest White, you see Faiza practice with

(56:11):
her sister. You see her practice at home. She she
fences in her bedroom. She does a shadow fencing, you know,
with a mirror and that's exactly what sport is. Sport
is you practicing and you practicing, and you practicing until

(56:31):
you become better, until you kind of find that inner
lioness or lion where you're just like you embody all
of those things that you've practiced and you believe it.
And I think that that's what the Boldest White is.
It's about being bold, being brave, and being fearless. And
it doesn't always have to be in sport. I think

(56:52):
it can be in you know, different different avenues in
your life. But it's a choice. I think being brave
is a choice, and I think that we all have
the ability to make that decision.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Do you see writing children's book is sort of something
you'll do like the rest of your life. I'm not
saying it's the only thing, because you do so many,
but like, does this feel like you've discovered like a
real like passion here?

Speaker 6 (57:14):
It's always after the book tour, because this is my
third children's book, and it's always after the book tour
when I'm like, you know how book, You know how
touring is for a book. You're exhausted, but I can't
wait for you to get into children's literature. Jamal because
the children's book tour is different. It's, you know, an

(57:34):
adult touring. You're very very heavy questions and it's like
mentally physically it could be like really dreamed with children's books. Yeah,
you're physically tired of the touring, but there's there's this
levity that's there and the kids are so cute. I

(57:55):
don't know, I wish that I had a series like
this as a kid. Like on Tourgamult, I meet parents
who have named their children after characters in the book,
which is I'm so cute. I'm like, I love this.
I met a baby who was named after Faiza, you know,
she was the fifth child of this family. But they're like, no,

(58:16):
this series is like every night we were reading these
books to our kids and when we were thinking about
you know, baby names, were like why you said, that's perfect?
And so I don't know, in my mind, because I'm competitive,
I could see me having like a rainbow of books,
you know, like we have read, we have white, we
have blue. Maybe the next one's purple, maybe it's green,
who knows, But you know, I don't know what the

(58:37):
future holds. But you know, as we say and our
faith we say inshallah, God willing you know whatever is
meant to be.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Well, I'm glad you mentioned that about how you had
people who name their kids after your characters, because I was.
One of my questions was for you is like, what
are some of the most memorable interactions that you've had
with children and their parents on your book tours.

Speaker 6 (58:58):
I think that fencing clubs around the country owe me
a cut because most people are fencing. I can't even
tell you how many kids come and they're fencing kit.
They bring their masks so they'll bring a glove for
you to sign. And my sister and I we were
I think one of two Muslim families at our club.
And I went to a club in the middle of
Manhattan on you know, twenty fifth Street. Twenty fifth and

(59:22):
seventh is where I fence. So this was a huge club,
had a lot of people, but didn't have Muslims fencing,
not even a ton of African Americans. So to see
that through these books or even through you know, like
my my young adult adaptation of my memoir, I think
that it's creating space for kids who look like us

(59:45):
to say, okay, I can try fencing. You know, let
me let my parents do a deep dive and find
fencing in my area. And I don't believe that everyone
needs defence. I know that it's very expensive. I don't
think that everyone should necessarily fence. I just really believe
in children being active. So I love that kids are fencing.
I'm always encouraging the parents at these book signings to

(01:00:06):
make sure they're putting their kids in a sport at
some level, at some point, because I do think it
creates a framework of being active and taking care of
your body that you carry, you know, throughout your life.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Might we one day see you with a fencing academy.

Speaker 6 (01:00:25):
I mean, we'll see. I'm working on some things. You know.
I tried coaching. I coached when I was training. I
coached my high school team. My sister was on it.
And you know what I don't like. I don't like
having to repeat myself. I feel like once I've said it,
that should be did you need to just do it?
And with kids, I mean, they're just they have to

(01:00:45):
hear it, you know, fifty eleven times before before they
do it all right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
So you don't know if you have the patience.

Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
Coaching is not for everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Yeah, that's true. All right, before I get you out
of here, I'm going to ask you the messy question,
the question designed for controversy. All right, just crazy to
say after we discuss the war in Middle East, but right,
exactly right, this is a messy question for you. You
once gave Michelle Obama a fencing lesson?

Speaker 6 (01:01:15):
Did you stick?

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Stab poke? I don't know what the terminology the first.

Speaker 6 (01:01:21):
Lady, So it's funny I was given no heads off
that I was giving Michelle Obama a lesson. I'm standing
in the middle of Times Square in this designated area.
I'm with a bunch of little kids, and I'm just
waiting and this secret service starts to show up, but
you can't even tell. They're just standing around with their

(01:01:41):
back to and they have these ear pieces, and no
one tells me what I'm waiting for by them. And
then she just appears. It was like a light shine
on her. She walked over, and in my mind, I'm like,
oh my god, like this is happening. It was like
Michelle Obama and I'm sure to keep everything safe, we
had foam foam one. There was no no real saber,

(01:02:03):
no real fencing sword in the mix. Kind of just
teaching her, you know, how to move forward, has to
step back out of lunch. It was quick, it was
in and out, But definitely I think my most memorable
moment's fencing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Well if D, thank you so much for joining me
here on politics and discussing all these different things, and
of course good luck with this latest iteration of your
your children's, but all of them are. I just think
it's such a fantastic series. And again I have a
different appreciation for them going through my own journey, and
you know, years from now, I don't know if you

(01:02:35):
thought about this much like how we look at Ludacris,
not Weed, but Ludacris. There's a generation that looks at
Ludacris and llkuj and they don't realize they were rappers before.
They're like, oh, they're actor. So people might be looking
at you like, oh she used to fence. Oh no, no,
I just know her as an author so powerful.

Speaker 6 (01:02:51):
Well here's hoping. But I have to thank you for
always having me on your platforms, and you are my
favorite sports journalist ever and I always look up to you,
So thank you again.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
For segment to go, And you guys know what that means.
I got questions to answer up next your viewer slash
listener questions, and I have plenty of answers coming up
next on the final segment of Politics All Right, Time

(01:03:29):
for this week's viewer slash listener question, which comes from
Stephan or it could be Stephen either one. Hey Jamil.
I had a quick question about superstars like Lebron James,
who have amassed a lot of power in and out
of the court. How could they do more to make
known their stance in light of their contracts which seems
to restrict participation in politics. I don't know that it's
necessarily restricted by anything contractually. Certainly, I think there is

(01:03:52):
an element in all professional sports of what's understood need
not be said by that. I think they understand sometimes
where the line could potentially be. They also understand that
if they crossed the line, that there could be a
price and a penalty to pay. But I think Lebron
has actually, for a superstar of his stature, he's been
more aggressive about making sure that people understand where he

(01:04:17):
stands with things. Just recently with the presidential election, he
gave a full endorsement of Kamala Harris. He explained why
he was supporting her. He did it both on social
media and also was asked about it by the press.
He answered all the questions about it, and if you
think back to the first presidency, it was Lebron who
called out Donald Trump his specific words where you bump,

(01:04:40):
you know. Even though as we've seen some of these
awful cases with police brutality, Lebron has been among many
and certainly a leader in terms of lending his voice
to these issues. But one athlete can't be everything for everybody.
I think he's shown it in words and in action,
particularly when you look at him building a school an
acron which shows how he feels about education and more

(01:05:02):
specifically about students who come from, you know, challenging low
income backgrounds, how he feels about them making sure they
have the proper access to education. But in general, I
think coming out politically can be a very scary thing
for a lot of professional athletes. You know, Lebron to
some degree, he does have the luxury of the fact

(01:05:24):
that he's Lebron James and he's already a billion dollar athlete,
so financially, there's not a ton to lose for him
in the same way it would be for somebody else.
But this is also why I strongly applaud the women
of the WNBA, because they have taken some very aggressive
political stances and they don't have nearly as much that

(01:05:44):
they can afford to lose, but they still have decided
to wage the fight anyway. And I think a lot
of the reason why they do is because they have
constantly had to be in the position where they're fighting
for their dignity and they're fighting for respect, and they're
fighting to be heard, and they're fighting for equality. So

(01:06:06):
the fight feels very very familiar to them. But listen,
I think we've seen that when an athlete wants to
say something, they're going to say it regardless of the consequences,
and so I think their participation in politics and speaking
on social justice issues is purely a personal decision. All right,

(01:06:26):
thank you Steven or Stefan for your question. Now, if
you would like to ask me a question, you can
email me your question or send me a video with
your question. But if you send me a video, make
sure it is thirty seconds or less. Send your questions
to Spoloitics twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. That's
Politics twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. Spolitics is
spelled spo l tics. Also make sure to Followspolitics pod

(01:06:51):
on Instagram and on TikTok. A new episode of Politics
drops every Thursday. It's available on iHeart or wherever you
get your Podcasts. Is Politics where sports and politics don't
just mix, they matter. Politics is the production of iHeart
podcast and The Unbothered Network. I'm your host Jamel Hill.

(01:07:12):
Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne. Lucas Hymen is head of
audio and executive producer. Megan Armstrong is associate producer. Original
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