Ep 07: The Politics of Conflict

This week's "The Filibuster" focuses on the ongoing war in Gaza and challenges why it seems impossible to discuss without someone being labeled as an anti-Semite and a terrorist sympathizer. Jewish Currents editor-at-large, CUNY professor, and MSNBC analyst Peter Beinart and Jewish sports journalist Eric Adelson both offer their expertise. Then, former Olympic fencer and New York Times best-selling author Ibtihaj Muhammad joins Jemele. Ibtihaj connects her experience as the first-ever Muslim American Olympian to wear a hijab to her continued purpose as an activist. Ibtihaj shares her pro-Palestinian beliefs and why she remains undeterred by the backlash she's received. As always, Jemele answers a listener question — this time, from someone who wants to know how athletes can balance making their political opinions while facing limitations. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and iHeart podcasts
and unbothered network production.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Time to get spolitical.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
I've been relatively quiet about the Warren Gayza, I'll be honest.
Some of it had to do with my own lack
of bandwidth, but mostly it's been because I was trying
to figure out the how, as in, how can I
thoughtfully discuss a conflict that dates back nearly a century now.
After doing some more thinking, I realized therein lies the problem.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
We can't talk about.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
It without someone being labeled as anti Semitic or being
labeled as a terrorist sympathizer. Sports can sometimes be a
place where common ground is found, even with the thorniest
and most complicated of issues.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's what makes sports unique.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sports has the ability to be a unifier because sports
often forces fans of different races, genders, and socioeconomic background
together to root for a common interest where there be
a specific team or a specific player. But the Warren
Gaza is such a polarizing emotional topic that common ground
is not often found in the world of sports about

(01:13):
this issue. During the Summer Olympics in Paris, Israeli athletes
were subjected to protests and death threats. During the Israel
Paraguay soccer match, spectators unfurled a banner that read genocide Olympics.
Other spectators, many of whom were wearing Palestinian flags, booed
the Israeli athletes when their national anthem was played. In judo,

(01:34):
two Arab athletes refused to shake the hands of two
Israeli athletes.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
From their sport.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
French authorities called the gestures from fans quote provocative gestures
of an anti Semitic nature. Obviously the world was understandably
horrified on October seventh when the terrorists organization Hamas attacked Israel,
killing twelve hundred Israelis and taking more than two hundred
and fifty hostages. But in response to the attack, Israel
has engaged in a relentless assault on the Palestinian people,

(02:02):
killing more than forty thousand of them. The targets of
these attacks aren't usually the terrorists who were responsible for
the October seventh attack, but rather civilians, many of whom
are elderly and children. There have been food blockades and
wholesale destruction of Gaza's health care system and infrastructure. Eighty
five percent of Palestinians living in Gaza have been forced
to flee their homes as most of the schools and

(02:24):
hospitals have been completely destroyed. It is for this reason
that many people felt that Israel should have been banned
from competing in the Olympics, including a group of twenty
six French legislators. Apartheid South Africa being banned from the
Olympics from nineteen sixty four to nineteen eighty eight was
cited as president. Now, any reasonable mind would conclude Israel
has a right to defend itself against terrorism, but according

(02:46):
to the International Court of Justice, that isn't all what
Israel is doing.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
The Court said last January that it.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Was quote plausible that Israel was committing genocidal acts against Palestinians. Now,
given the level of destruction in Palestinians have experienced, a
reasonable mind would also understand why athletes would express empathy
and support for the Palestinian citizens who have been targeted
and kill but that's hardly the case.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
German football club Minds zero five made the decision to
terminate Awar Elgazi's contract on Friday due to posts he
made on social media concerning the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The
club cited comments and posts from the player on social
media as the reason for his contract termination, but they
did not provide specific details regarding the content of the

(03:32):
posts on war. Elgazi, a twenty eight year old forward,
had previously been suspended by the club for a now
deleted social media post related to the Middle East conflict.
The club had initially lifted his suspension, giving him a
second chance, stating that he had spoken out against terrorism,
including from Hamas, and did not question Israel's right to exist. However,

(03:56):
in a subsequent social media post, Algazi indicated that the
club job had issued its statement without his permission, reaffirming
his stance for peace and humanity and expressing concerns for
the innocent and vulnerable in Gaza. He posted another statement
condemning the killing of innocent civilians in both Palestine and Israel.
Before his contract termination. German prosecutors accused Elgazi of disturbing

(04:20):
public peace by condoning criminal acts in conjunction with incitement
to hatred through his social media posts. The situation highlights
the complexities and consequences of individuals expressing their views on
sensitive geopolitical issues on social media platforms.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
A German court ruled Elgazi was wrongfully terminated. But how
did we get to the point where athletes say support
a ceasefire in Gaza, and our critical of Israel's response
is considered to be anti Jewish or even anti Semitic,
I asked Jewish scholar Peter Binhart, the editor at large
of Jewish Currents and professor of Journalism in Political Science
at the City of New York's Newmark School of Journalism.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
The word terrorism, it's used in I think, very political, politicized,
and not necessarily intellectually honest ways. Right if terrorism just
means that a government or some armed group is terrifying people, right,
If that's the root of the word terror, is that
you're inducing terror in people, right, Well, yes, Hamas definitely

(05:21):
terrified and killed and slaughtered a lot of people on
Occober seventh, and they've done that for long before that.
In fact, a friend of mine was killed in a
bus bombing that Hamas perpetrated in the mid nineteen ninety
But it's also the case, if we're just talking about
terrifying people, that the Israeli government is terrifying a lot
of people in Gaza now and killing very very many

(05:41):
of them and terrifying people. So the word terrorists, I think, unfortunately,
really tends to only get applied to Palestinians or Arabs
and Muslims. It's not a term that's used in a
kind of a non racial or non religious way, which
is why I think it's a problematic term the way
it's often used. I think what happens is that there
have been a lot of people, especially over for many years,

(06:02):
but especially since over the last year, where we've seen
Gaza literally completely devastated, you know, most of the buildings destroyed,
most of the people made homeless, most of the hospitals,
most of the universities just do you know, brought to
complete rubble, you know, and with American weapons, mostly American weapons,
And a lot of people have looked at this and

(06:24):
they said, this doesn't seem right to me. This is
not what America should be doing in the world. And
these are often the same kinds of people who would
have been outraged by America's policies when we evaded a Rock,
or America support for a Parte, or America's wars in
Central America. Right it's the same kind of people, people
who just basically have a human rights kind of perspective

(06:46):
and see their own country doing things that they think
violate that, and they want to say something. You know,
Muhammad Ali opposing the Vietnam War. Right, There's a long
history of this.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
It's a history so complicated that I can't begin to
sum up the entire totality of conflict. But as a journalist,
you have two very important superpowers that always are at
your disposal, the ability to question and the ability to listen,
And sometimes the latter is more important than the former.
My dear friend Eric Adelson is a freelance force journalist.

(07:15):
He's also Jewish, and as someone who has covered six Olympics,
he has a deep understanding of how the Olympics have
been the backdrop to some painful moments in the Jewish
Palestinian conflict, including the nineteen seventy two Munich Olympics, which
were marked by a devastating attack on Israeli athletes.

Speaker 5 (07:31):
Monday marked fifty years since gunman attacked the Israeli team
at the nineteen seventy two Munich Olympics.

Speaker 6 (07:37):
When German police close in all the hostages and eight
terrorists die during an airport shootout.

Speaker 5 (07:43):
Palestinian militant group Black September claimed responsibility for the attack,
which shot the world. Millions of viewers watched an unfold
on live TV.

Speaker 6 (07:53):
Despite protests, the games go on as israel Berries are
dead and the world marns the innocent victims of the
Munich mashacre.

Speaker 5 (08:02):
The Olympic village didn't have tight security in the early
hours of the morning of September fifth, nineteen seventy two,
when the militants broke into the Israeli apartments, which tipped
off a bloody twenty four hour standoff between the gunmen
and unarmed athletes who tried to defend themselves. One rescue
attempt was called off when police realized it was being

(08:22):
broadcast live. That's when German authorities agreed to take the
attackers and a number of hostages to the airport.

Speaker 6 (08:29):
They're at the Firstonfeldbrook air base they had their gun battle.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
Another rescue attempt failed once a gunfight broke out at
an air base, which finally ended when the surviving gunmen
were captured. The attackers wanted more than two hundred Palestindians
held in Israeli prisons to be released, along with German
Red Army Faction radicals Andreas Vader and Ulrich Meinhoff. They
also wanted a plane to head to the Middle East.

(08:53):
In the end, eleven members of the Israeli team were killed,
along with one German police officer in five of the
palace Indian Gunman. German and Olympic authorities faced bitter criticism
for their response to the attack.

Speaker 7 (09:06):
I think that one of the limitations in terms of
how this is covered is the recency bias that a
lot of people are looking at this entire issue from
a very new perspective when it's an incredibly old story.
So as a Jewish American, I grew up and I

(09:28):
was told stories about Munich nineteen seventy two. And I
think a lot of Americans they grow up with the Olympics,
and they hear about Carl Lewis, and they hear about
Michael Johnson, Mary lou Retten, Michael Phelps, Usseaint Paul. But
a lot of I would say most Jewish Americans, they
hear about Munich. And the lesson of Munich is that

(09:50):
Jewish athletes, Israeli athletes just are not safe anywhere and
that was proof of it, and those Olympics were supposed
to be s they necessarily do over, but some kind
of retribution for what happened in nineteen thirty six with Hitler,
and it was in Germany. It was supposed to be

(10:10):
much better and Germany botched the security and Israeli athletes died,
and it was one of the darkest moments in Olympics
history and still very much on the minds of almost
all Jews who watched the Olympics and cheer for Israel.
So this is something that pre dates October seventh, It

(10:33):
predates the century, It goes back decades and centuries, back
to the Roman empirety but further than that. So I
think that the attention on the matter is very important,
and for athletes to have voices is very important and
not be censured or censored for things that they say.

(10:55):
And I think that that is a huge advantage of
the Olympics, is that we do have a global forum
to sometimes talk about these things.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
And what that requires is something our society isn't really
good at these days, and that's nuanced. You should be
able to support the Jewish and Palestinian existence. You should
be able to call out anti Semitism without being Islamophobic.
You should be able to criticize the brutality and extremism
of the Israeli government and show support for suffering Palestinians

(11:23):
without being labeled a terrorist sympathizer. Here's Peter Beinhart again
saying what I said, only smarter.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of folks who
don't really want everybody to be able to enter into
this conversation. And I think that's because there is a
potential fragility of the kind of unconditional support for Israeli
that kind of dominates American politics in the Republican Party
and even in the Biden administration. That if more people
enter this conversation who have progressive minded views, I think

(11:51):
that would be challenged more so. Unfortunately a lot of people.
Sometimes people end up paying a high price for trying
to enter in this conversation. But I really look, there
are some people who are antisemitic, and if people are
anti Semitic, they should be called out for being antisemitic.
But I really believe that anyone of goodwill who cares
about human beings, cares about human dignity and freedom, should
be able to have a perspective on this conversation and

(12:13):
enter into this conversation and should be prove innocent of
considered innocent of anti Semitism until proven guilty, not the
other way around. And the truth is the great movements
for freedom, whether it was the anti Partic movement or
the civil rights movement or have always or the anti
Vietnam War, have always brought people from many, many different backgrounds,
and a lot of people who were involved in anti
Vietnam War were not experts about Vietnam. They didn't speak Vietnamese,

(12:36):
but they could see what was happening and they had
a moral impulse, right, And the same thing a lot
of people in the Anti Party who didn't know the
details about South Africa, but they had a moral impulse
and that's good. Those are the best things in our
country have come from that kind of moral impulse of
people who were directly affected working together with people who
were not directly affected, but said, this is not what

(12:57):
I believe, and I think that we have the potential
to have that kind of movement for Palestinian freedom, a
movement of Palestinians and Arabs and Muslims and Jews, but
also people from every kind of background, because a lot
of people also have in their own personal experience, even
if they've never been to Israel and Palestine, they can
see they have in their own family history or in
their own personal experience, something that they have experienced that

(13:20):
allows them to understand and feel a sense of solidarity
with people who are not treated equally.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approve this message. Up next
on his politics, a former Olympic medalist who has expressed
public support for Palestinians and has had to suffer some
consequences because of it. She is the first American Muslim
woman in Olympic history to compete with the Hajab. She
also is author of multiple children's books, including her latest,

(13:46):
The boldhus Wife. Coming up on Spolitics ifty haaj Muhammad. So,
if the has thank you so much for joining me.
I'm going to start this podcast with the way I
start with every guest that appears on politics and that

(14:08):
is named the athlete or the moment that made you
love sports.

Speaker 8 (14:15):
That's such a great question, I don't you know. I
would say that Serena was very pivotal in my decision
to explore professional sports, but I grew up the child
of you know, I had a family member who worked

(14:35):
at NBC Olympics, and so every single summer or even
Winter games, we were just in front of the television
because in my mind, my aunt played a part in
making that happen. So I've been a sports baby, I
think my whole life.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, yeah, so I guess the answer would be it
was your aunt who is responsible for you sort of
that early interest that you had in the Olympics.

Speaker 8 (15:00):
In the Olympics for sure, but you know, as African Americans,
we're either outside or you know, being active, playing a sport,
watching sports, I think collectively, and so sports, I think
and our family has just woven into the fabric of
kind of who we are.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
So what was sort.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Of your earliest kind of memorable Olympic memory.

Speaker 8 (15:21):
Definitely sitting in front of the television at my aunt's house.
She's not there, but with my uncle and my family,
like my siblings, my parents, sitting in front of the
TV and watching watching sports, whether it be track or
field or even boxing. I remember my aunt did. There
was one games where specifically she was working on boxing.

(15:45):
So I think those are my memories that big, you know,
box television when TV's kind of sat in like a
piece of furniture. Oh yeah, Like I feel like I
remember that biasia like a big wooden like like piece
of furniture, but it had a television in it, Like
I remember watching the Olympics like that.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Now, of course, you know your Olympic history, and it's
literally you are part of Olympic history, not just because
you participated, but obviously because of what you accomplished there
and also being the first American athlete to compete in
the Olympics while wearing a good job winning the bronze
for the US fencing team. But you know, you decided

(16:31):
to retire, and I believe you decided to retire.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
What was it twenty nineteen?

Speaker 8 (16:35):
I think it was twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Twenty seventeen.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Wow, Okay, it seems like it's been much shorter than that.
So when you decided that it was it for you
and fencing, how did you How did you know your
fencing career was over.

Speaker 8 (16:51):
I feel like a part of me knew Apic Games
that that was going to be it, and a lot
of it I think that the decision didn't always feel
like it was mine. I felt like I grew tired
of some of the politics that existed within my sport.

(17:16):
If I had the ability to just train and I loved,
I think all those pieces that make you, I think,
a phenomenal athlete. I liked the dedication. I love the routine.
I liked that I could commit myself to practice, to
training to get better. I kind of felt like I

(17:37):
could always see those results. They felt very tangible to me.
But it was the politics that I could never get with.
And a lot of that maybe because I'm just not
a combative person, but because I was faced with so
much adversity, and I think a lot of it had
to do with things that were out of my control,
like me being ethnically different from everyone else, so religiously

(17:59):
different from every everyone else. And then on top of that,
our sport is an individual sport first, So in those cases,
in sports like that, there's just a lot of contention
that exists because the reality is people want each other's
spots so on. You know, this this facade that you

(18:19):
all see a spectators, especially watching the Olympics. Everything seems great,
you know, there's high fives, there's hugs. But I think
the underbelly of that is you know that your competitors
before your teammates. Do you think, and we'll dive a
little bit deeper, because you left a lot of meat

(18:40):
there on the table about the politics that you face.
Do you think that you might have stuck in it
longer if you were let's say, a like your road
and path would have been different, is a better way
to phrase it.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
If you would have been a Christian athlete.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Now we know there's not a lot of black people
in fencing, but I think the religious component of this
is very different. So let's say you were a Christian
athlete and not a Muslim athlete. Do you think your
pathway would have been different?

Speaker 8 (19:08):
I can't honestly answer that question. I have no idea.
And that's because when you live at the intersection of
different identities, you don't ever stop and ask, you know,
the person or persons who are kind of committing those
bigoted acts or these discriminatory, you know, aggressions towards you.

(19:33):
You don't stop and ask, like, Hey, is it because
I'm Muslim or is it because I'm black? You know
what I mean, It's because I'm better than you? Like
who knows? So I don't know if you know some
of the things that I face in some of those
some of those obstacles were because I was Muslim, or
if it had nothing to do with any of my identities.
To be honest, I'll never know the answer to that.

(19:55):
But I do have moments in my career stand out
to me because you know, we are moments in my
career that stand out to me because my religious beliefs
were kind of uh, you know, brought to the surface
when really it's like, what are my religious beliefs? How

(20:16):
does that factor into me being on this team or
me playing a sport that I love? To me, you know,
why is religion even a topic of conversation within you know,
the bounds of our team dynamic.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, I mean it shouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
You're right, but I think because not only are you Muslim,
you chose to present as Muslim by wearing a h job,
and so the immediately when you show up anywhere, for
some people, your very existence I don't even think for
some people, I think it's a reality like your existence
is political to them, and so immediately you're causing a

(20:54):
reaction just by showing up. So how did you as
you were, you know, in this sport that you love, Like,
how did you deal with trying to shield yourself or
at least protect yourself from these bigoted reactions.

Speaker 8 (21:09):
When I was younger. I think that my parents played
a big part. Even my brothers sometimes played a big
part in like creating that space where you felt safe.
As I move more into the professional level, a lot
of it was just trying to stay true to yourself
and stay really myopic in the goal, and for me,

(21:31):
the goal was to become a better athlete. So I
was never caught in the weeds in trying to be
something I wasn't or trying to present myself in ways
that kind of would lessen the blows that I was
getting from them. I just, I think, really just learned

(21:54):
to ignore it. And I'm thankful because I feel like
had I gotten caught up in going back and forth
or constantly feeling like I needed to defend myself, I
would like they would have they would win, because then
you are you become distracted. Competing becomes a lot harder

(22:16):
because you're being weighed down by these different, you know,
instances that you've you've now kind of unboxed in your life,
and as black athletes we're already carrying a lot. Every
time I felt like I stepped onto the defencing strip,
I was carrying other people's implicit biases before you know,

(22:39):
the referee even said fence. And when I was competing,
I don't know if I was necessarily like super conscious
of it. Subconscious yes, But now looking back and seeing
how especially as an adult, seeing how implicit bias changes

(23:02):
the way people interact with one another, how they treat
one another. And I play, I compete in a sport
that the referee is the end all be all in
the decision of who sportes the point, so it you know,
it begs the question how often are points being taken
away from you? Or is the referee really being true

(23:24):
to the sport and being honest to both athletes in
you know, giving the point to to the to the
person who's deserving of the point, or does implicit bias
play play a part in his decision, his or her
decision making.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
You mentioned about just this natural burden that black athletes
are forced to carry twenty sixteen in Rio was your
first Olympics correct.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
First and only Olympic person on the Olympics.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, you know, carrying all this way that that first
and only eligs were you actually able in real time
to enjoy the momentous achievement of being an Olympian.

Speaker 8 (24:12):
No, I would say, no. I My media questions were
all political questions. My teammates got what did you eat
for breakfast? How excited are you to be at the Olympics?
And my questions were about Trump, they were about the
Muslim band, they were about you know, my my ethnic origin,

(24:34):
things like that, and I felt like they were heavy
questions that I was being dealt and my teammates, you know,
their questions were vastly different, especially when it came to
like media day or any type of you know, panel
kind of questions that we received, and I felt it.

(24:57):
I felt like at the Olympics, I I had to
be a good representation for the communities that I was
a part of, whether that be the Muslim community, the
Black community, you know. I wanted to show people and
show most importantly, I wanted to show Muslim women that

(25:18):
we could be successful in sport. And so I feel
like a part of me already did that job by
being there at the Olympics, you know, and then winning
a medal, you know, was just icing on the cake,
but it was also showing young black kids that they
could have a seat at that table to be a
part of, you know, the fencing community, Like still you

(25:41):
can go to fencing tournaments, especially in the weapon that
I fence as a woman saberist, and you can find
no black athletes, And the way that I see it,
there's still is there still needs to be changed in
our sport. And at the Olympics, I felt like, of
course I was really excited to be there, but I

(26:04):
felt like I was carrying something with me, and a
part of that is being really thankful and appreciative of
the moment. But I felt like my job wasn't done.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Do you know you wound up winning the bronze, which
is an incredible achievement. When you reflect on it, do
you wonder if maybe they hadn't politicized your presence being there.
Do you wonder how much that might have impacted how
you perform?

Speaker 8 (26:32):
Sometimes? You know, I look at my individual performance and
I don't think if I really tried, I could articulate
how nervous I was. To give you an idea of
a fencing tournament like Son's Olympic Games, it is you
are in a random country, in a random venue, and

(26:56):
the spectators are maybe whatever host country you're in, Like
say you're in Greece, maybe there's a few Greek families,
but the spectators are coaches, trainers, and athletes. That's who's why. Like,
we don't sell out stadiums in our sport by any
stretch of the imagination. So to have that be your
norm and then go to the Olympics when there's like

(27:19):
you can barely even hear yourself think because there's so
many people. To be honest, it felt kind of like
a World Championships, you know, and you know, you have
World Championships three times, then you have an Olympic game,
so it's kind of that same level. And I felt
that nervousness before, but for whatever reason, by the grace

(27:40):
of God, at the team event, I felt like I
just didn't have any nerves, like I was ready to go,
and I felt like in the day of the individual
competition prepared me for the team event.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
You know, you said a moment ago that you forced
that is probably too strong a words, but you felt
like the overwhelming nature of the politics is what ultimately
made you decide to walk away from fencing. Since making
that decision, have you regretted it at all?

Speaker 1 (28:11):
No.

Speaker 8 (28:11):
I think that my time in the sport it was perfect,
and had there not been COVID, maybe I would feel,
you know, some level of like I would feel remorse
in walking away so early and not really giving myself

(28:33):
an adequate amount of time. You know, I competed my
first international competition. I was twenty one years old, twenty
two years old, and for a lot of athletes in
our sport, they're competing from a really, really young age.
They're in an international competition at eleven twelve years old.
So I feel like my career started later than most people.

(28:57):
But you know, when you look at my retirement in
twenty sixteen, the next Olympics wasn't until twenty twenty one,
and that's I mean, not only is that a large
span of time, there were people training, you know, in
their backyards because clubs were closed and you couldn't really

(29:19):
you know, have close interaction with anyone else, So it's like,
how are you training during that time? I feel like
it would have been really difficult, and also a lot
of my training I had very like my coaches weren't
the most dependable people anyway. So I can't imagine during
COVID in the mix and you know, having to try

(29:43):
to chase somebody down for you know, a lesson and
training during a global epidemic. I think it would have
been really tough.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, I guess from that perspective considering the very next Olympics,
like the whole world had change that that I'm sure
you saw with some of the athletes went through, you know,
mentally physically, and you probably were thinking.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Eh, kind of glad I'm in it.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
But I guess maybe regret or remorse isn't the right answer.
I just wondered if you missed it at all.

Speaker 8 (30:13):
I miss it in my day to day. I feel
like I missed through Uteaine, you know. I think that
in how my life is now, it's like you don't
know if you're going to be in New York or
la or if you're going to be in Paris, Like
you just don't know. And with sport, it's you know,
you kind of we have the same World Cups every
single year and you have panamsa World Championship. So I

(30:35):
think that I kind of missed that, like knowing you
know that I'm going to wake up at five point
thirty to go training. I have lunch and then I
have you know, the second training. Like I kind of
missed that, like just the regiment and the schedule of training.
But it's the Olympic Games where I'm just I think
when I really have fomo and for a hot second,

(30:57):
you're like, I retired too early. But then the Olympics
ends and you're like, nah, don't miss it.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
You know, you said something interesting about the Paris Olympics.
You said, I want to make sure that I quote
you correctly. You wrote in an Instagram caption that is,
you said that the Paris Olympics will be remembered as
the games that violated human rights?

Speaker 1 (31:21):
What did you mean by that?

Speaker 8 (31:23):
So the French Olympic Committee in September of twenty twenty
three announced that French athletes, specifically French athletes we are
Muslim and observed Kijab would not be allowed to compete for,
you know, the French national team and represent France at

(31:43):
the Olympic Games. And in my eyes and in the
eyes of you know, anyone with a conscience and moral compass,
that is a gross, you know, human rights violation to
tell Muslim women that they're not allowed to compete, and
this coming from the host country that they're not allowed

(32:04):
to compete in in the hedge AaB. You know, I
was shocked because, yeah, I mean France, They've been discriminating
against Muslims for a really long time, and I think
that they're just chipping away at a much a much
larger end goal when it comes to Islamophobia, to be

(32:27):
quite frank, but you know, for the host country to
announce this and for the IOC, the International Olympic Committee,
to take no substantial action at all over that next
you know year, and yeah, over that next year, I
just you know, I felt like we, as Muslim women

(32:49):
around the globe were let down, you know, by the IOC,
by allies, by friends, and especially by even other athletes.
How can you know and be presented with this information
and say nothing to me? Sports and activism go hand

(33:10):
in hand, and I'll never understand an athlete, especially athletes
of color, who come from who may come from underrepresented communities,
who you know, may face their own microaggressions within their sport,
to choose to say nothing, to not lend your platform

(33:31):
to advocate for this group of women who are being
mistreated by the host country. You know, I just felt
really really disappointed in a lot of my fellow athletes.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Why do you think that is or do you think
this is because of this particular issue, like if it
were something that were not closely.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Tied to religion that.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
And this is to give them no excuse, but like,
do you think because of what it was tied to
that that made other your Olympic.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Colleagues less comfortable speaking out?

Speaker 8 (34:15):
It's possible, probable, but you know who knows. When you
look at different sporting events around the world. When you
look at even the twenty sixteen Olympic Games in Brazil,
I'm sure you remember the conversation of Zeka and crime
and poverty and all these different things that we were

(34:39):
going to be met with, you know, by this like
big boogeyman that was in Brazil. I feel like you
don't see that for all host countries that you know,
are hosting sporting events, like Qatar who hosted the World Cup,
it was like human rights violations and that's all anyone
ever wanted to talk about. But where is that same

(35:01):
energy for the Western countries or the European countries, the
white countries that hosts the sporting events, I feel like
the energy from the media is always different.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Now you are somebody who is never shied away from
using your platform and your status as an athlete to
speak up on your opinion, to be outspoken, to be
involved in activist causes. You have been very supportive of
the fight that Palestinians are going through, and you've deeply

(35:38):
involved yourself in that issue, which, as you know, just
by nature, is very polarizing for a lot of people
in this country. As you begin to speak out more
and on behalf of Palestinians who are undergoing terrible atrocities
in the Middle East, what has been the reaction that

(35:59):
you've received to that when you've used your voice for
an issue again that's very divisive for people.

Speaker 8 (36:06):
As a Muslim American, we've talked and learned about the
plight of the Palestinians for like, to be honest, my
whole life. If you go to any Muslim function, there
is this conversation around the Palestinian cause, and you know,

(36:31):
whether it's lending financial support, there's some type of fundraiser
that's happening, or just conversations about the occupation that the
Palestinians are under and the very real existence that they
live under an apartheid regime of Israel. And now, you know,

(36:59):
post October seventh, twenty twenty three, it seems like the
tide has shifted a little and you see more people,
especially gen Z, become hip to what's happening there. And
I see as a public figure, the very real effects

(37:20):
of what it means to be outspoken in support of
the Palestinian cause, and I see that they're I know
friends who have lost their jobs. I personally have am
experiencing shadow banning where my posts aren't seen by very

(37:40):
many people. And it's also affected my stream of income
as it has a lot of my friends who are
in my field or who kind of have the similar
structure in the way that they know make money, and
as like, you know, my faith teaches me to speak

(38:01):
out against, you know, injustice. So there's not anything that
I would change personally, but it is really upsetting to
watch a lot of my friends or even people that
I follow now a whole entire year later when this
is bought to the this is bought you know, to

(38:22):
everyone's television screens and in your your your feed, whether
you like it or not, it's there, you know. To
ignore it, I think goes against are very nature as
African Americans. Even like if I just were to take
every move everyone else from the equation and say where

(38:45):
is the black community, It's to me a shocking you know.
I think a lot of the historical figures that have
always meant so much to me, whether it be Malcolm
X or Muhammad Ali, I feel like like even those
figures are spoke to the plight of the Palestinian. So

(39:05):
this isn't something that started a year ago, you know.
This is something that has been going on for decades
and to say nothing, whether it be about the genocide
in Palestine, the you know, the famine that's happening in Sudan,
the bombing that we're seeing in Lebanon, or just the

(39:29):
fact that our tax dollars are funding this, to me
is infuriating. Like we live at the very top of
the tax bracket, and I'm like, so all that money
you're taking out of my pocket is going to carpet
bombing children. I just for me, it hurts me at
my core, and I don't To me, it's a very

(39:50):
helpless situation, Like I feel helpless, and for a long time,
I would say over the last year, and I've talked
about this with you know, even my team, I've really
struggle to even be present on social media because of
the images that you see, but also a very real
fear about even posting. You know, we see people literally

(40:13):
lose their job, lose their livelihood, and it becomes I think,
this internal fight of I do want to lend my support,
what happens when I do? And you know, what is
it that I what is it that I'm even supposed
to say, you know, to help change our funding of

(40:34):
you know, the annihilation of these people.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
You know, certainly there have been many examples of people
who just in voicing concerns and what I considered to
be fair criticism, that they have been branded anti Semitic
just for asking questions. So that's something I definitely want
to dig a little bit deeper into. But first we're
going to take a quick break and we'll be back

(40:58):
with more with empty hash. So we were talking before
the break about just sort of the thought process and
really the risk of expressing any kind of pro Palestinian support,

(41:19):
asking or raising any questions about the US and involvement.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
How concerned were you that.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
People would label you anti semitic because you're.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Clearly very very very well versed on the issues.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
But how concerned were you that you might be mistakenly
labeled and it's anti Semitic?

Speaker 8 (41:38):
Not too concerned. I feel like it's part for the course,
you know, when you are speaking out against something like
this that's been going on for so long, I knew
that I knew that would happen. And I feel like
I've been labeled in anti semitic for at least the
past three or four years, so I wasn't surprised.

Speaker 7 (41:57):
You know.

Speaker 8 (41:57):
I think generally, I'm not super concerned about myself. I
have to I have to say that, like, you know,
it's it's really more so for me and trying to
encourage other people to use their platform. You know, how
many people exist on Earth. There's a lot of us,
and I think collectively we can you know, invoke real change.

(42:19):
But we also have to believe in our power. And
whether you have you know, ten million followers or if
you have a few followers, I think that you owe
it to our global community to you know, uplift those
who are facing such gross injustices like the Palestinians. I really, morally,

(42:43):
I don't think it's right to sit and say nothing,
or to say I see both sides, or even to
call this a war. There are a group of people
who live under occupation and live behind a wall. They
don't have between security checkpoints. They're living under an ethnocracy
where because they are Muslim, because they are Arab, they

(43:06):
are not able to have the same rights as an
Israeli Jew. That is an Aparthi system. That is Jim Crow,
you know, two point zero. And we as African Americans,
we are we know what that's like. We know what
it's like to live under. If you understand your history,
if you understand American history, you know what that looks

(43:28):
like and you know why it's wrong. So why now
in twenty twenty four we want to take a step
back and say, oh, we understand both sides. Imagine have
not having access to clean drinking water or not having
the ability to go to school. You know, there are
I think one hundred and fifty five hospitals that have
been leveled, like they don't exist in Gaza anymore. If

(43:51):
prior to that, I went to a I went to
a talk with that famous Palestinian photographer motaz's Eyza. He
was in Orange County and he was dropping some things
that I did not know. That if you were under
the age of fifty five in Gaza, you can't go

(44:13):
to Jerusalem to seek medical treatment. Say you have some
I don't know, some health concern and if you're under
that age, under that threshold, you can't seek medical treatment.
And if you have something like cancer, by the time
you are you know, you go through that whole legal
system of requesting permission. He was like most people, by

(44:36):
the time you get permission to go to Jerusalem to
seek medical treatment, he was like, you're going to die.
There's no time left. That's it, you know. And I
can't imagine living in a place where my faith precedes me,
my ethnicity precedes me, and I'm not given basic human
rights because of the way that I was born. That

(45:00):
is inherently wrong. And we owe it to the people
of Palestine to say something and to invoke change. It's
our government that is funding this and giving the green
light to the Israelis to even commit things like this.
And I've always found a strange I have to say,
I have friends and I know people who say oh,

(45:20):
I went to Israel for the summer. Where I went,
you know here, I went to Tel Aviv on vacation,
and I can't imagine going somewhere and seeing this wall
and seeing the lack of freedom that exists for a
group of people, and then continuing on whatever, you know,
vacation I plan to have. I can't imagine it. But

(45:41):
maybe perhaps it's because of my ancestry. I don't know,
but I just can't imagine ever thinking that that was okay.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, it is interesting over the course of my life,
like I remember as a young voter, and granted there's
not even though the US is supportive, Israel stretches back decades, right.
Social media has definitely changed how people saw the issue
when I was a young voter versus now, and a

(46:10):
lot of that is led by, as you mentioned, gen Z,
who has been able to sift through some of this
and say, hey, you know, stop And so, while obviously
it's not ultimately what you want, you know, you want
the violence to stop, but does it at least give
you some measure.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Of hope and encouragement.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
The fact that it does feel like people are asking
questions more so than they did before.

Speaker 8 (46:37):
I think so, you know, my my, I think that
as a Muslim, I have to have faith, you know,
I have to have faith that there's going to be changed.
And I think that part of that is a part
of you know, true advocacy, that what you're working towards,
and you know, right now it feels like we're in

(46:58):
the trenches. I think collect actively as a Muslim community,
I think that this is this is like nine to
eleven for us in terms of the Islamophobia and the
very real like hate the Muslim community is getting. You know,
we're back to that Arab boogeyman, you know, the sensationalized
thing that we all experienced just kids in nine to eleven,

(47:22):
and now I feel like, you know, my nieces and
nephews will have to unfortunately experience as they grow up.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
I was going to ask you that because with the
ramped up, with it being an election year, and you know,
we everybody's heard Trump talking about you know, he brought.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
In a Muslim bum Muslim band.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Before, about expanding that band if he gets another term
in office, and you know, I didn't want it to
feel like a inappropriate comparison because I remember very much
what the climate was like from Muslims after nine to eleven. Yeah,
I was going to ask you, like, how do you
do you feel like it's worse than it was after
nine to eleven.

Speaker 8 (48:00):
You know, I was so young nine to eleven, so
I can't speak to, you know, what adults necessarily were experiencing.
But I do remember people like changing their names, you know,
like shortening their names, like you know, kind of removing
religious markers, whether that be the way that they dressed

(48:21):
or the way that they like publicly appeared, so that
they wouldn't be you know, not necessarily yeah, like mislabeled,
or even so that people wouldn't see their faith first,
so that their faith, you know, like wouldn't precede them.
And now I feel like social media has really changed everything.

(48:42):
I think it's given a lot of us couraged that
we didn't have in the past. Like I don't think
we're we're our parents' generation. You know, people are like, yeah,
I may lose my job, but here's what I have
to say. You know, I'm not I'm not you know,
I'm not my parents, I'm not my grandparents. I'm different
and I because of social media, because of our access

(49:05):
to information, I think that gen Z Muslim are not.
We have more access to more like it's not that
you know, the news just can't tell you a lie,
and you're going to run with that lie and think
that that's a accepted as truth. Now you can say, no,
actually that's not true. You know, I've done my research
and I know you know that that what you've said

(49:27):
and what you've told us is A plus B equal
C is actually you know, incorrect and it's not true.
And so I think that we're a bit more fearless
as millennials in gen Z and that we are ready
to burn it all down, whether it's the uncommitted or
you know, people who don't want to necessarily put themselves
in the box. We're like, no, we we will see

(49:48):
change in our lifetime by hook or bycro.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
You know, Uh, you've talked about what your life looks
like now. You know, given the fact that you're all
over the country all the time.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Before we've and started this podcast, the first thing I
asked you was like, where exactly are you having this
conversation with me from? Because you are generally all over
the place. But nevertheless, one of your post fencing career
lanes has been in children's books, and you've got a
New York Times bestselling children's book series which is spectacular.

(50:21):
And I extra relate to this now because I am
also in the process of finishing my children's book as well.
But what made children's books kind of a comfortable space
and a lane for you?

Speaker 8 (50:36):
I knew when I got my book deal from my memoir,
and this was I think back twenty seventeen. In the
back of my mind, I knew I wanted to go
into children's literature. And so much of my journey as
a person, as an athlete has been to invoke change,

(50:59):
and to be honest, is it's not it was. It's
never at the forefront. It wasn't at the forefront of
my mind. You know, when I was a kid, even
coming up through fencing, I just knew that I was
always one of one in spaces. And so that journey
began to look different when I looked Atosa and said, hey,
there's never been a black woman on the US woman's

(51:20):
saber team, and I knew it in my mind, I
could do it. I didn't have any credentials or any
of the the you know, kind of those those metals
or anything that would attest to my ability to do it.
I just believed in myself and I was like, this
is something I'm gonna do, if not for me, for
like my younger self. Right. I wanted I wanted young

(51:44):
black girls to be able to see themselves in that space.
I wanted young mul And girls to be able to
see themselves in the space. And I feel like it's
been the same with with children's literature. When I was
a kid, you didn't have books like I used to
read Babysitters Club. There weren't any block that book.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
I remembered.

Speaker 8 (52:00):
I really tried to relate to the stories, but it's
not the same. It is not even American Girl. You know,
the the black doll in the black character in the
American Girls series was a slave. Looking back, I can't
believe my parents read that.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
I did not know that I was older than you,
so I didn't I'd heard of the series before.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
I didn't know it was the slave. No, she was
a slave.

Speaker 8 (52:25):
He was to play. Her name was Addie. I had
this doll. I still have this doll at my parents house.
All of the things that came with Addie were connected
to her living in this in like slave quarters, she
had this broom, she had this like straw bed, like
it's wild, but that that was our reality of children.

(52:47):
So I was like, you know what, I'm going to
be the change and I'm going to write these books.
And it was something I feel like was just long overdue.
I had never had a book is a kid that
had a character in hedjab. I had never seen the
story of hijab told from the perspective of a Muslim
family that wasn't demonized, that wasn't about oppression, that didn't

(53:11):
come from some man. It's like everything about what I
know of hejab and to me within our community is
not what you see on TV. It's like for us,
it's it's very normal for you to wear hedjab and
it's a part of our culture as Muslims. I love
that The Proudest Blue, my first children's book, tells the

(53:32):
story of hedjab in a way that's so beautiful. But
how the younger sister, Fayza sees Asia's first day of
wearing hedjab as this beautiful marker. And when Asia does
experience bullying, you see what she does in that moment
and she never you know, like holds onto the words
that the bully says, and to me, you don't have

(53:53):
to be Muslim to get the message of the book.
It's that you know, bullying may happen, but you know
those words of the bully aren't yours to keep. And
so it's about being proud of who you are. And
with the kindest read it's about kindness, like who doesn't
want to impart the value of kindness, you know, to
their children. And what I love about my newest book,

(54:16):
The Boldest White it is I don't know if you
can see the cover, but I love that it's my
first book that has both the characters by Zenescia and
Hedjab on the cover. But it's also, you know, a
story about fencing. It's a story about faith and about
bravery and all the things that I feel like I

(54:37):
had to be. I had to be brave, I had
to be resilient, I had to work hard in order
to realize my dreams as an Olympic medalist. And I
just like that with children's literature, you're able to create
and show children what they can be, and that's something

(54:59):
that's often missed, saying I think for us as adults,
you know, we kind of get to a point where
we harden and we're like, no, this is my baseline,
this is who I am. And with children, it's just
kind of limitless imagination. And I can't wait for you know,
more kids to read this book and maybe even go
out and try fencing. You know, there's a lot of

(55:19):
missed opportunity when it comes to these more niche sports
like lacrosse or hockey or fencing. I think that once
we as African Americans get a hold of them, we're
just going to like take off and it'll blow up.
But you know, we're still I think at the we're
still at the start. We're still at the beginning of
the race in that journey.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yeah, if you could sort of put it capsize it, Like,
how do you want children to feel after they read
The Boldest White.

Speaker 8 (55:48):
I want them to feel brave. I want them to
think about fear from a different perspective. You know, we're
even as adults, were all all we all have moments
of doubt, we all are afraid to try new things.
But in the Boldest White, you see Faiza practice with

(56:11):
her sister. You see her practice at home. She fences
in her bedroom, she does a shadow fencing, you know,
with a mirror, and that's exactly what sport is. Sport
is you practicing and you practicing, and you practicing until

(56:31):
you become better, until you kind of find that inner
lioness or lion where you're just like you embody all
of those things that you've practiced and you believe it.
And I think that that's what the boldest White is.
It's about being bold, being brave, and being fearless. And
it doesn't always have to be in sport. I think

(56:52):
it can be in you know, different different avenues in
your life. But it's a choice. I think being brave
is a choice, and I think that we all have
the ability to make that decision.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Do you see writing children's book as sort of something
you'll do like the rest of your life. I'm not
saying it's the only thing, because you do so many,
but like, does this feel like you've discovered like a
real like passion here?

Speaker 8 (57:14):
It's always after the book tour, because this is my
third children's book, and it's always after the book tour
when I'm like, you know how book, You know how
touring is for a book. You're exhausted, but I can't
wait for you to get into children's literature, ja Meal,
because the children's book tour is different. It's you know,

(57:34):
an adult touring. You're very very heavy questions and it's
like mentally physically it could be like really dreamed with
children's books. Yeah, you're physically tired of the touring, but
there's there's this levity that's there and the kids are

(57:55):
so cute. I don't know. I wish that I had
a series like this as a kid. Like on Tourgamul,
I meet parents who have named their children after characters
in the book, which is I'm so cute. I'm like,
I love this. I met a baby who was named
after Faiza. You know, she was the fifth, the fifth
child of this family. But they're like, no, this series

(58:17):
is like every night we are reading these books to
our kids, and when we were thinking about you know,
baby names, were like why you said, that's perfect? And
so I don't know. In my mind, because I'm competitive,
I could see me having like a rainbow of books,
you know, like we have read, we have white, we
have blue. Maybe the next one's purple, maybe it's green.
Who knows, But you know, I don't know what the

(58:37):
future holds. But you know, as we say, and our
faith we say inshaw lah God willing you know whatever
is meant to be.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Well, I'm glad you mentioned that about how you had
people who name their kids after your characters, because I was.
One of my questions was for you is like, what
are some of the most memorable interactions that you've had
with children and their parents on your book tours.

Speaker 8 (58:58):
I think that fencing clubs around the country owe me
a cut because most of the people are fencing. I
can't even tell you how many kids come and they're
fencing kit. They bring their masks, but they'll bring a
glove for you to sign. And my sister and I
we were I think one of two Muslim families at
our club. And I went to a club in the
middle of Manhattan on you know, twenty fifth Street, twenty

(59:21):
fifth and seventh is where I fence. So this was
a huge club, had a lot of people, but didn't
have Muslims fencing, not even a ton of African Americans.
So to see that through these books or even through
you know, like my my young adult adaptation of my memoir,
I think that it's creating space for kids who look

(59:44):
like us to say, okay, I can try fencing, you know,
let me let my parents do a deep dive and
find fencing in my area. And I don't believe that
everyone needs defence. I know that it's very expensive. I
don't think that everyone should necessarily fence. I just really
believe in children being active. So I love that kids
are fencing. I'm always encouraging the parents at these book

(01:00:06):
signings to make sure they're putting their kids in a
sport at some level, at some point, because I do
think it creates a framework of being active and taking
care of your body that you carry, you know, throughout
your life.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Might we one day see you with a fencing academy.

Speaker 8 (01:00:25):
I mean, we'll see. I'm working on some things. You know.
I tried coaching. I coached when I was training. I
coached my high school team. My sister was on it.
And you know what I don't like. I don't like
having to repeat myself. I feel like once I've said it,
that should be did you need to just do it?
And with kids, I mean, they're just they have to

(01:00:45):
hear it, you know, fifty eleven times before before they
do it all.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Right, So you don't know if you have the patience.

Speaker 8 (01:00:53):
To coaching is not for everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
All right, before I get you out of here, I'm
going to ask you the messy question, the question designed
for controversy. All right, just crazy to say after we
discuss the war in Middle East, but right, exactly right,
this is a messy question for you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
You once gave Michelle Obama a fencing lesson?

Speaker 6 (01:01:15):
Did you.

Speaker 8 (01:01:17):
Stick?

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Stab poke? I don't know what the terminology the first.

Speaker 8 (01:01:21):
Lady, So it's funny I was given no heads up
that I was giving Michelle Obama a lesson. I'm standing
in the middle of Times Square in this designated area.
I'm with a bunch of little kids, and I'm just
waiting and this secret service starts to show up, but
you can't even tell. They're just standing around with their

(01:01:41):
back to and they have these ear pieces, and no
one tells me what I'm waiting for by them, And
then she just appears. It was like a light shine
on her. She walked over, and in my mind, I'm like,
oh my god, like this is happening. It was like
Michelle Obama and I'm sure to keep everything safe. We
had foam foam one. There was no real saber, no

(01:02:03):
real fencing, sword in the mix, kind of just teaching her,
you know, how to move forward, has to step back
out of lunch. It was quick, it was in and out,
but definitely I think my most memorable moment's fencing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Well if D, thank you so much for joining me
here on politics and discussing all these different things, and
of course, good luck with this latest iteration of your
your children's books.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
All of them are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
I just think it's such a fantastic series. And again
I have a different appreciation for them going.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Through my own journey.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
And you know, years from now, I don't know if
you thought about this much like how we look at Ludacris.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Not we, but Ludacris.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
There's a generation that looks at Ludacris and llkuj and
they don't realize they were rappers before.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
They're like, oh, they're actor.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
So people might be looking at you like, oh she
used to fence. Oh no, no, I just know her
as an author.

Speaker 8 (01:02:50):
Yeah, powerful, Well here's hoping. But I have to thank
you for always having me on your platforms, and you
are my favorite sport journalist ever and I always look
up to you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
So thank you again for segment to go and you
guys know what that means. I got questions to answer
up next your viewer slash listener questions, and I have
plenty of answers coming up next on the final segment
of Politics. All right, time for this week's viewer slash

(01:03:30):
listener question, which comes from Stephan or it could be
Stephen either one, Hey Jamil. I had a quick question
about superstars like Lebron James, who have amassed a lot
of power in and out of the court. How could
they do more to make known their stance in light
of their contracts, which seems to restrict participation in politics.
I don't know that it's necessarily restricted by anything contractually. Certainly,

(01:03:52):
I think there is an element in all professional sports
of what's understood need not be said by that. I
think they understand sometimes where the could potentially be. They
also understand that if they crossed the line that there
could be a price and a penalty to pay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
But I think Lebron has actually, for a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Superstar of his stature, he's been more aggressive about making
sure that people understand.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Where he stands with things.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Just recently with the presidential election, he gave a full
endorsement of Kamala Harris, he explained why he was supporting her.
He did it both on social media and also was
asked about it by the press. He answered all the
questions about it, and if you think back to the
first presidency, it was Lebron who called out Donald Trump
his specific words where you bump, you know. Even though

(01:04:41):
as we've seen some of these awful cases with police brutality,
Lebron has been among many and certainly a leader in
terms of lending his voice to these issues. But one
athlete can't be everything for everybody. I think he's shown
it in words and in action, particularly when you look
at him building a school an acron, which shows how
he feels about education and more specifically about students who

(01:05:04):
come from, you know, challenging low income backgrounds, how he
feels about them making sure they have the proper access
to education. But in general, I think coming out politically
can be a very scary thing for a lot of
professional athletes. You know, Lebron to some degree, he does
have the luxury of the fact that he's Lebron James

(01:05:25):
and he's already a billion dollar athlete, so financially, there's
not a ton to lose. For him in the same
way it would be for somebody else. But this is
also why I strongly applaud the women of the WNBA,
because they have taken some very aggressive political stances and
they don't have nearly as much that they can afford

(01:05:45):
to lose, but they still have decided to wage the
fight anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
And I think a lot of the reason why they do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Is because they have constantly had to be in the
position where they're fighting for their dignity and they're fighting
for respect, and they're fighting to be heard, and they're
fighting for equality. So the fight feels very very familiar
to them. But listen, I think we've seen that when
an athlete wants to say something, they're going to say

(01:06:14):
it regardless of the consequences, and so I think their
participation in politics and the speaking on social justice issues
is purely a personal decision. All right, Thank you Steven
or Stefan for your question. Now, if you would like
to ask me a question, you can email me your
question or send me a video with your question. But

(01:06:34):
if you send me a video, make sure it is
thirty seconds or less. Send your questions to Spolitics twenty
twenty four at gmail dot com That's Politics twenty twenty four.
At gmail dot com. Spolitics is spelled spo l tics.
Also make sure to follow spolitics pod on Instagram and
on TikTok. A new episode of s Politics drops every Thursday.

(01:06:56):
Is available on iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is Politics where sports and politics don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Just mix, they matter.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Spolitics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network.
I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakogne.
Lucas Hymen is head of Audio and executive producer. Megan
Armstrong is associate producer. Original music for Spolitics provided by
Kyle VISs from wiz fx